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<v Speaker 1>Hi is Brian Thomas. I'd like to welcome to the

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five Catssey Morning Show author Richard Simon. He directs

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<v Speaker 1>the website strategy at Georgetown Law and Washington d C.

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<v Speaker 1>As a former reporter and webmaster at Baltimore's The Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Record that he is now an author Unplug How to

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<v Speaker 1>Break up with your Phone and Reclaim your life. Conceptually,

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds great, Richard, Welcome to the Morning Show. It sounds,

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<v Speaker 1>though very difficult in practice these days. Let's talk about

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<v Speaker 1>what you did and of what I actually start by

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<v Speaker 1>asking you what drew you to want to write this

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<v Speaker 1>particular book.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the journey definitely starts with me as a

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<v Speaker 2>thirty three year old father of two at the time

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty nineteen, my smartphone was putting a strain on

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much all facets of life, from professional to personal,

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<v Speaker 2>and I knew I had to do something about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I decided to turn off my phone for an

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<v Speaker 2>entire year, and it was one of the most transformative

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<v Speaker 2>periods of my life. And what I realized is that

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much all the self help articles out there and

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<v Speaker 2>books suggest hacks. Hacks are noble, like deleting social media apps,

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<v Speaker 2>turning your phone to gray scale digital sabbaths. All those

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<v Speaker 2>things are nice, but for something as addictive as a

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<v Speaker 2>phone as a phone, it doesn't go far enough. So

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<v Speaker 2>I ended up seeking out dozens of people who had

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<v Speaker 2>gone through similar phone breakups, and believe or not, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so glad phone released. It can be on a Cincinnati

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<v Speaker 2>show because my book opens up with Nick Costianos when

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<v Speaker 2>he was a Cincinnati Red so I profile and interview

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<v Speaker 2>him for the introduction because he turned off his smartphone,

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<v Speaker 2>and just like me, it was incredibly transformative for him.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, some people just stare constantly at their phones. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things I do with a segment each

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<v Speaker 1>week on the program Tech Friday with Dave Hatter, he

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<v Speaker 1>and I are anti app. We don't do apps. All

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<v Speaker 1>they are is data harvesters. YadA, YadA, YadA. I was

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<v Speaker 1>able to live my entire life up till the time

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<v Speaker 1>smartphones existed. I'm coming up on sixty years old. I

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<v Speaker 1>never had an app, didn't need them, and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>need them now. That's kind of my view and my

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<v Speaker 1>take on it. But insofar as to having this smart phone,

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<v Speaker 1>this is how we all generally commit unicate. So the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of dealing without this. I don't even have a

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<v Speaker 1>landline anymore. So what about people that it still needs

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<v Speaker 1>to make a phone calls. I mean cutting it off

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<v Speaker 1>completely seems literally impossible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely is not. I go through four different breakup

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<v Speaker 2>styles in the book, and one of the things I

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<v Speaker 2>realized for my dozens of interviews is that something like

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<v Speaker 2>this is for everyone. I profile one call anesthesiologists at

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<v Speaker 2>Johns Hopkins Hospital, one of the top research hospitals in

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<v Speaker 2>the country, a law partner, a social media person, a

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<v Speaker 2>software engineer, a school principle, all people who turn off

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<v Speaker 2>their phones. Now, the one I think that will have

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<v Speaker 2>four different breakup styles in the book, and the one

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<v Speaker 2>that I think that will resonate most for your listeners

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<v Speaker 2>is switching from a smartphone to a basic phone. And

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<v Speaker 2>when you switch to a basic phone, it touches on

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<v Speaker 2>that piece you're talking about where you can still make

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<v Speaker 2>calls and text, but essentially with the most basic of

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<v Speaker 2>basic phones, that's it. And one of the biggest problems

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<v Speaker 2>for people is the time suck with a smartphone. The

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<v Speaker 2>average can spend more than five hours a day on

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<v Speaker 2>a smartphone. It's time you simply don't get back. And

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<v Speaker 2>with a basic phone, it's so terrible to use that

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<v Speaker 2>you won't want to use it that much. So all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden you regain time.

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<v Speaker 1>Perfect idea. And see, that's basically what my smartphone is.

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<v Speaker 1>It is an intentionally dumb phone because I don't use

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<v Speaker 1>any of the apps on it. Now, how about the

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<v Speaker 1>you have an off by default recommendation as well, And

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<v Speaker 1>this is something that I embrace. Every night, go to bed,

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<v Speaker 1>my phone is off, and that's the way again, I

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<v Speaker 1>live my life that way. Growing up, you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have phone calls in the middle of the night,

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't take them if you did. My dad was

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<v Speaker 1>got up early like I did, so he would insist

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<v Speaker 1>the phones would be off. So I can handle that.

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<v Speaker 1>If there's a phone message on, I'll listen to on

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<v Speaker 1>a wake up in the morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Brian, that is that is fantastic. Yeah, So the off

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<v Speaker 2>by default approach, I recommend sixty days of at least

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<v Speaker 2>sixty days of having your smartphone off to recalibrate, throw

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<v Speaker 2>a word pathways in your brain. And with the off

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<v Speaker 2>by default approach, for those sixty days, you would have

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<v Speaker 2>your smartphone off and own turn it on to complete

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<v Speaker 2>a critical task. Then after you finish those sixty days,

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<v Speaker 2>you can alter the definition of off by default too.

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<v Speaker 2>You only turn your smartphone on if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>enhance your life. That way, you have control of your

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<v Speaker 2>smartphone rather than it being control of you.

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<v Speaker 1>What about relationships? I understand the toughest. So and you're

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<v Speaker 1>going down this path of off by default or not

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<v Speaker 1>or going cell phone free? Was your wife?

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct. My wife is a pediatrician. Like any good pediatrician,

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<v Speaker 2>she thought through all the various scenarios of what could

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<v Speaker 2>go what could go wrong, and we realized that if

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<v Speaker 2>I do this, we're really have to set expectations, especially

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<v Speaker 2>with kids in terms of coordinating. But one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things we realized right away was that on an average day,

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<v Speaker 2>we would be texting throughout the day. So by the

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<v Speaker 2>time we got home and had dinner together as a family,

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<v Speaker 2>we knew what was going on, like there was nothing

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<v Speaker 2>to catch up one because we were texting throughout the day.

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<v Speaker 2>All of a sudden, a smartphone is removed from our

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<v Speaker 2>environment and there's no texting throughout the day. So when

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<v Speaker 2>we get back home together, we actually enjoy catching up

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<v Speaker 2>with each other because there's stuff to catch up.

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<v Speaker 1>One that's awesome. I understand you got to run. Richard

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<v Speaker 1>Simon has been great talking to me this morning. Unplug

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<v Speaker 1>How to break up with your phone and reclaim your life.

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<v Speaker 1>It's on my blog page. People can easily get a

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<v Speaker 1>copy of it. It's a great spending time with you today, Richard.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for writing the book.