Speaker 1: The summertime is upon us, and if you remember last year,
Speaker 1: the podcast took a break for a few weeks during
Speaker 1: those busy summer months and I put out a few
Speaker 1: episodes from the After Hours Club archives over at patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Twilight tern Podcast. Now, it wasn't my
Speaker 1: intention to do that again this year. I really wanted
Speaker 1: to plow on and get some more episodes of the
Speaker 1: main show done, But unfortunately, I'm afraid I have to
Speaker 1: admit defeat. Rest assured. Everything is fine, but there are
Speaker 1: just a lot of things that I have to take
Speaker 1: care of at the moment, one of which is moving house,
Speaker 1: which on its own is a big deal, but there
Speaker 1: are several things on top of that as well. And
Speaker 1: with so few of the main show episodes left to do,
Speaker 1: I don't want to rush them out or not to
Speaker 1: do them justice. So I thought I'll just take June off,
Speaker 1: get what I need to do done, and then hopefully
Speaker 1: we should get back to spare of the moment in
Speaker 1: July at the very latest August. Now, if you remember
Speaker 1: over in the After Hours Club, you will still get
Speaker 1: new episodes looking at the Outer Limits, and you know
Speaker 1: the other things that go on over there. Because of
Speaker 1: the support that you give me in the After Hours Club,
Speaker 1: I'm able to get an editor to put those together
Speaker 1: for me, but the Twilight Zone podcast is a very
Speaker 1: particular thing that I need to do myself. So thank
Speaker 1: you for your patience and tonight for your enjoyment. I
Speaker 1: give to you a discussion that I had with my
Speaker 1: good friend al Shadesmayer about an episode of an anthology
Speaker 1: show called Suspense that featured an episode written by Rod
Speaker 1: Sailing called Nightmare at Ground Zero, and I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoy it. First broadcast on the eighteenth of August nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty three. Written by Rod Sailing and directed by Robert Mulligan,
Speaker 1: Nightmare at Ground Zero tells the story of George Vance
Speaker 1: and his long suffering wife Helen. Now, George is supplying
Speaker 1: mannequins for use on an atomic test site, but his
Speaker 1: obsession with mannikins and other inanimate figurines is at the
Speaker 1: expense of his relationship with Helen, and it's understandably starting
Speaker 1: to get to her. So tired of Helen's complaining, George
Speaker 1: hatches a plan that will both save one of his
Speaker 1: beloved mannequins from nuclear annihilation and quiet Helen's complaining for good.
Speaker 1: So tonight I'm going to be joined in the archives
Speaker 1: by my friend al Shadzmer to examine this early rod
Speaker 1: sailing artifact.
Speaker 2: Hello, dear, alright, I've got so much to do yet,
Speaker 2: and I haven't eaten. I waited supper as long as
Speaker 2: I could. It got cold, lovely dinner. I had cold roast.
Speaker 2: The cold potatoes were particularly George, George, Dear, Really, I've
Speaker 2: had a very miserable day. The Colonel had me on
Speaker 2: the carpet all afternoon. I didn't have all the mannequins
Speaker 2: quite done, and and he was quite anxiou. Isn't that
Speaker 2: just too bad? Did you telling me I had a
Speaker 2: wife in the house? A wife that gets precious little
Speaker 2: attention as it is.
Speaker 3: I promised you.
Speaker 2: You promise me too. Ten years ago.
Speaker 1: You promised me we'd have a wonderful life together.
Speaker 2: Wonderful life, that's a yack. The first year it was
Speaker 2: the puppets, Yeah, the puppet, the wonderful little Marionette, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the wonderful Little Marian. It kept us starving for two years,
Speaker 2: crazy stupid.
Speaker 1: It's a great pleasure tonight to welcome to the after
Speaker 1: hours club. A man who's been here several times before
Speaker 1: before it was actually known as the After Hours Club,
Speaker 1: and it's good to have him back all shades. I
Speaker 1: can't believe it's been so long. Welcome back, Al.
Speaker 3: Thank you Tom. It's great to be back. It's great
Speaker 3: to be in the official after Hours Club.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think you're a founder member with
Speaker 1: all the collaborations we've had over the years and things,
Speaker 1: and it's a thrill for me to do more, especially
Speaker 1: with the kind of series within a series. If you're
Speaker 1: like that that we're deciding to do. But face things fast.
Speaker 1: It's almost a year since I seen you at Sailing Fest, Mink.
Speaker 1: Can you believe in that's right?
Speaker 3: It's I can't believe it. No, it's that year went
Speaker 3: by very quickly.
Speaker 1: How was your sailing Festyle? I don't think we spoke
Speaker 1: about that live on it.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think we have. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I had a great time. It was great to meet
Speaker 3: different people, and I just I loved being able to
Speaker 3: be amongst people who could converse Twilight Zone and Sirling
Speaker 3: in the minutest detail, and and I loved just meeting
Speaker 3: the different authors. And you know, I got like practically
Speaker 3: I bought practically every book and got them autographed, and
Speaker 3: the features were great fun, and I was ready to
Speaker 3: come again this year. And I'm really sorry that things
Speaker 3: the way they are that it's not going to be happening.
Speaker 3: So but I would love to make it an annual
Speaker 3: thing as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Same here. You know, you're absolutely right. The events itself
Speaker 1: was one thing, and that was great, but just being
Speaker 1: able to sit in a pub and talk about the
Speaker 1: Twilight Zone was a completely new experience for me, especially
Speaker 1: like isolated as we are here in England to the
Speaker 1: Twilight Zone. So being able to just sit there and
Speaker 1: have those conversations, it was, it was absolutely amazing. I'll
Speaker 1: never forget it, never forget it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you know, and some of the features
Speaker 3: were just eye opening. It just I remember in particularly
Speaker 3: the fellow that did the thing about the Twilight Zone
Speaker 3: comic books, Yeah, which was you know, I mean, it
Speaker 3: was just it just opened up a whole other avenues
Speaker 3: of the whole Twilight Zone mystique.
Speaker 1: I hope you haven't got a box of I'm sitting
Speaker 1: under your desk there. I'll he didn't, because that's me
Speaker 1: all over, you know, you get me interested in something.
Speaker 1: The next minut I've gone about half a million of
Speaker 1: the things.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I've got a handful of them. But no, no,
Speaker 3: not a box sitting.
Speaker 1: Underneath Okay, okay, good, good. Now. Also, you know, I
Speaker 1: like to catch up on this because you are the
Speaker 1: presenter of presenting Alfred Hitchcock Presents. That's a lot of
Speaker 1: presents in that sentence. But we've spoke about it before,
Speaker 1: but I always like to check in and see how
Speaker 1: you're getting on house things with the podcast.
Speaker 3: Things are good. I am working from home since the
Speaker 3: onset of COVID in this country, and as a result,
Speaker 3: it's been about what would it be about five months
Speaker 3: since I've been able to be in the library's podcast
Speaker 3: studio where everything is beautifully set up for me, So
Speaker 3: I have to do sort of this makeshift system at home.
Speaker 3: Fortunately the library inform me ahead of time before they
Speaker 3: shut down that they were going to do so, and
Speaker 3: I was able to bring a lot of equipment at home. Okay,
Speaker 3: so I'm still able to podcast, but it's a whole
Speaker 3: different baby. All sorts of worries about outside noise and
Speaker 3: and and little sounds coming up on my computer while
Speaker 3: I'm busy recording and so on, But all in all,
Speaker 3: I've been proceeding pretty well. And as a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: I just released an episode today because today is Alfred
Speaker 3: Hitchcock's one hundred and twenty first birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, cool? Was it an episode or were
Speaker 1: you talking? Was it like a special? What did you do?
Speaker 3: It was just an episode. I started the I started
Speaker 3: the series. My first episode I released on Hitchcock's birthday
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen, and so yeah, so it's been two years. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I've just made sure each year to release one
Speaker 3: of my episodes on his birthday. So August thirteenth is
Speaker 3: when we're talking right now, and that's Hitchcock's birthday. So
Speaker 3: my twenty fourth episode I just released today. I've been
Speaker 3: doing the monthly generally speaking. I did put in one
Speaker 3: filler in June because I did get slowed down with
Speaker 3: the stay at home stuff, but otherwise I've been pretty
Speaker 3: consistent doing it once a month.
Speaker 1: The fact that you've been able to do that, I
Speaker 1: think is a testament to you, al because they are
Speaker 1: like jam packed with research and clips and things that
Speaker 1: a real treat and they really expand on the episode
Speaker 1: so you know what, once a month. I think that's
Speaker 1: that's pretty good going. Man.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Tom. It does help that I get
Speaker 3: paid by the library to do it, yeah, I'll ask yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well as far as working from home goes, man, if
Speaker 1: you if you ever need a room here at the
Speaker 1: After Hours Club to record your podcast, and you can
Speaker 1: have it. But I don't know, I can't vouch for
Speaker 1: what you might find in there, but you know you
Speaker 1: welcome to it. Great, Okay, Well, we're here tonight to
Speaker 1: discuss an episode of Suspense. Now, I know Suspense mainly
Speaker 1: from the radio show, and it's not like top of
Speaker 1: my list. I've enjoyed many episodes of it. I think
Speaker 1: I prefer more overtly science fiction or overtly horror radio shows,
Speaker 1: but I do think Suspense was a good show, and
Speaker 1: it's certainly a long running show. Are you familiar with
Speaker 1: it al the radio show?
Speaker 3: I am, Yes, Yeah, I've listened to a bunch of
Speaker 3: the episodes, And actually it fits into my whole Hitchcock
Speaker 3: podcasting because what you're talking about the kind of shows
Speaker 3: that Suspense are are essentially the kind of shows that
Speaker 3: Hitchcock are, and a lot of the suspense radio shows,
Speaker 3: and actually some of the suspense TV shows were later
Speaker 3: redone on the Hitchcock TV show. So, even outside of
Speaker 3: my interest in old time radio, I've gone back and
Speaker 3: listened to a number of suspense radio shows because they
Speaker 3: were the big for a television episode of Hitchcock that
Speaker 3: I was covering.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, am I right? Or am I thinking something else?
Speaker 1: Wasn't the fast episodes of suspense presented by Hitchcock or
Speaker 1: was that something else? Yes, it was the Lodger.
Speaker 3: It was the Lodger, and it was the pilot episode.
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely sure it was. Actually I don't think
Speaker 3: it was actually presented on Suspense.
Speaker 1: Okay, it was.
Speaker 3: Presented I think on a different show, But it was
Speaker 3: the pilot episode for suspense, right, So I may have
Speaker 3: that wrong, but it's something like that. Yes, so, yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's rating on the ground floor of suspense.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: As far as the television show goes, I know nothing
Speaker 1: about it. This is the first time I've ever watched
Speaker 1: an episode of it. I don't even know whether much
Speaker 1: of it exists anymore. Have you much experience with that?
Speaker 3: Well, a little bit, Yeah, and there are a fair
Speaker 3: number of them out there, and they're mostly available online.
Speaker 3: There were like three different DVD sets I think came
Speaker 3: out about ten years ago, one of which had Nightmare
Speaker 3: of Ground Zero on it and they plastered Rod Serling's
Speaker 3: face on the cover. You know, So there are I
Speaker 3: don't think, and I don't think all of them are
Speaker 3: still in existence by any means, but they are a
Speaker 3: decent amount, which is not bad because I think they
Speaker 3: were recorded live. I think they were done live, yes,
Speaker 3: And it just so happens. If somebody happened to, you know,
Speaker 3: film the kinescope, then we have actual episodes. If not,
Speaker 3: they don't exist.
Speaker 1: What a fascinating thing. And I think we can see
Speaker 1: a bit of evidence of that in tonight's episolutely Yes. Now,
Speaker 1: last time we spoke about like Twilight Zone plays and
Speaker 1: things I'm not Twilight Zone plays. What am I talking about?
Speaker 1: Like Vincage Rudd sailing plays? And I think I struggled
Speaker 1: to acclimatize a little bit because they are so different.
Speaker 1: And I think it was you who said they are
Speaker 1: just like they are plays on screen, really, and I
Speaker 1: think you were a bit better at that than me,
Speaker 1: because you're a play, right anyway, you know, you have
Speaker 1: that kind of theater experience if you're like, well, so,
Speaker 1: I guess this one's no different, is it. It's just
Speaker 1: like a play recorded on television.
Speaker 3: I think that's right. I think it was done live,
Speaker 3: and once again, you had different sets and you had
Speaker 3: to make sure that the actors could get to the
Speaker 3: different sets, or if they had to change their clothes
Speaker 3: or whatever, you had to give them time to do so.
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of what's interesting about
Speaker 3: this episode is the camera work. But I think the
Speaker 3: camera work is actually there because it's done live and
Speaker 3: you don't want to just show like a stage. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so the camera work, there's a lot of close ups,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of moves to weird angles and so on.
Speaker 3: I think those are all there. I mean, part of
Speaker 3: it might be the creative impulse of the director, but
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is there just to
Speaker 3: cover up the fact that you're just essentially watching a
Speaker 3: stage play.
Speaker 1: Things like the way they use the like the mesh
Speaker 1: fencing in front of the house. Yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of little touches here. I found this to be less
Speaker 1: stagy than those other ones we watched. Probably for those reasons.
Speaker 1: I think there is a bit of movement going on.
Speaker 1: The sets are very different, like there's a house there,
Speaker 1: and there's the there's the test house, and you know
Speaker 1: that even driving along in a car and yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not the most convincing, but it sort of gives us
Speaker 1: that separation of the scenes. So I think this is
Speaker 1: a bit less stagy than those ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think actually the car works pretty well.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're just watching and not paying much attention,
Speaker 3: you just say, I mean to the ins and outs
Speaker 3: of the creative process, you're saying, oh, well, they're in
Speaker 3: a car and they're driving, and it seems perfectly fine.
Speaker 3: If you stop and think about it, you say, well,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, their car isn't moving, and it's all
Speaker 3: being done with lights and with sound effects, and the
Speaker 3: main character is just moving the steering wheel back and
Speaker 3: forth a little bit and that's it. But it works beautifully.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll kind of step through the story. I will
Speaker 1: have given a synopsis earlier on by now, But in
Speaker 1: the first part of the story, when introduced to George
Speaker 1: Vance and his wife Helen, George faced because he's at
Speaker 1: this this test site, house. Now, I'll be honest with you,
Speaker 1: I don't know a great deal about these I think
Speaker 1: what I know I've probably seen in the movies. But
Speaker 1: they are like something that when you see them, these
Speaker 1: houses that were built with dummies in and like in
Speaker 1: this that even putting electrics in and things, just to
Speaker 1: see what happens when you know, you set a nuclear
Speaker 1: bomb off near to electric There's a kind of morbid
Speaker 1: fascination that comes along with these things because they are
Speaker 1: so kind of grit grotesque in their own way. Just
Speaker 1: this like fifties American household populated by domis. It's so bizarre,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 3: It's very bizarre. And I actually didn't really know much
Speaker 3: about this, and I wasn't really even sure that they
Speaker 3: did put mannequins into these places. So I looked it
Speaker 3: all up and they absolutely did.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 3: I found a website where they said they talked about
Speaker 3: One of the explosions at Yucca Flats was a mission
Speaker 3: that they called Operation Doorstep, and the website said it
Speaker 3: was used to determine if wooden frame homes, cars, and
Speaker 3: mannequins in place of people could survive a nuclear blast,
Speaker 3: and that took place on March seventeenth of nineteen fifty three.
Speaker 3: This episode is sometime in August in nineteen fifty three. Wow,
Speaker 3: so people that are watching this would probably be very
Speaker 3: aware of exactly what was going on and what the
Speaker 3: deal was with the mannequins and so on. So I think, Rod,
Speaker 3: you know, I think it's I think it's one of
Speaker 3: these moments where this happened, you know, in real life.
Speaker 3: And this light bulb went over Red Rod's head, you know,
Speaker 3: and he said, Aha, you know, mannequin's in a house
Speaker 3: that's going to be exploded with an atomic bomb. I
Speaker 3: can do something with that. And he did it rather
Speaker 3: quickly because it aired but like maybe five months after
Speaker 3: the actual explosion. So yes, and the whole business of
Speaker 3: Yucca Flats, I mean, that doesn't really mean anything to
Speaker 3: us now. I don't think there's a moment in the
Speaker 3: very beginning of this episode which I think is supposed
Speaker 3: to be this moment of shock, and it really doesn't
Speaker 3: penetrate now. And that's when they leave this house when
Speaker 3: we're not entirely sure what the house is yet, and
Speaker 3: the camera pans over to this sign that says Yucca
Speaker 3: Flats and it's like, well, fine, you know, good Yucca
Speaker 3: flats whatever. But if this is the kind of stuff
Speaker 3: that was going on just a few months before, that
Speaker 3: sign really means something to the people watching in nineteen
Speaker 3: fifty three. They immediately know what this house is and
Speaker 3: what's going to happen to this house.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me, and it might be something that
Speaker 1: I actually reads upon a bit, to be honest. And
Speaker 1: there's a bit later on where like George is going
Speaker 1: back into the base and the guy at the gate
Speaker 1: is like, okay, but get moving because it's thirty five miles.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like, how big must this thing be?
Speaker 1: It must be absolutely huge, and I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess it must have to be if you're going to
Speaker 1: set off a nuclear bomb there. But yeah, the scale
Speaker 1: of it is immense.
Speaker 3: And terrifying really, So you do have this ticking clock
Speaker 3: throughout this episode which is very scary because of what's
Speaker 3: going to happen.
Speaker 1: George Vance he is the man who makes the mannequins,
Speaker 1: and he goes home and we have this scene with
Speaker 1: him and his wife, Helen. Some might say it's a
Speaker 1: kind of Twilight Zone nagging wife in a way, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I would probably draw more of a parallel with
Speaker 1: Time Enough at Last if Rodd was the one who
Speaker 1: originally wrote time Enough at Last, But that's in the
Speaker 1: original story anyway. But I guess because he did write
Speaker 1: the episode, and he wrote this episode, you can draw
Speaker 1: certain parallels. The wife is a bit of a nagging wife,
Speaker 1: But I'm okay with it because I think George is
Speaker 1: just such a flake. He is just like this, has
Speaker 1: this weird obsession with puppets, models, mannequins, and I don't
Speaker 1: blame her for being a bit out of her mind,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think it's completely justified. What do
Speaker 1: you think of these scenes out?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree with that. Yes, it is justified.
Speaker 3: But the scenes are quite eerie. I think they're really
Speaker 3: nicely done. When when we first see his wife, she's
Speaker 3: sitting there amongst these mannequins, which he is still has
Speaker 3: at home, and she's not moving, so to some extent,
Speaker 3: she's like one of the mannequins, and that I think
Speaker 3: actually becomes part of the point with the way George
Speaker 3: views her because he loves the mannequins. There is a
Speaker 3: line that he has Let's see if I can find it.
Speaker 3: I wrote it down. He says that the mannequins are
Speaker 3: gentle kind and quiet, Helen, if only you.
Speaker 1: Were that way.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so he's got this obsession with these inanimate
Speaker 3: objects that he deals with as if they're people. So
Speaker 3: I think, you know, there's a number of Twilight Zone
Speaker 3: episodes that I think this is almost like a precursor for,
Speaker 3: and to some extent, you have to say that The
Speaker 3: After Hours is one of them. Oh yeah, because the
Speaker 3: mannequins do become real to.
Speaker 1: George definitely, definitely. I mean it's a bit of a
Speaker 1: weird obsession. I mean, Henry Bee must like to read.
Speaker 1: I can kind of get on board with that one, Whereas, Okay,
Speaker 1: when there's like painting mannequins and stuff, it just marks
Speaker 1: him out as a bit more insane, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I don't think there's much kind of light
Speaker 1: and shade here. The more time you spend with this guy,
Speaker 1: the more I just think he's just not right, you know.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, he spends his time like very carefully doing
Speaker 3: the eyebrows of the mannequin. You know, this is a
Speaker 3: mannequin that's going to be blown up in a nuclear explosion,
Speaker 3: and he's taking time to get the eyebrow just right.
Speaker 3: And it does remind me a little bit going back
Speaker 3: to Hitchcock of an episode I covered, which is based
Speaker 3: on a great Bradbury story called and So died Ryabushinska,
Speaker 3: which is about a ventriloquist with his dummy that he
Speaker 3: essentially falls in love with. So it's a very similar
Speaker 3: notion of being in love with something that's actually inanimate,
Speaker 3: but that you infuse some sort of life force into
Speaker 3: by your obsession with it. Yeah, and so yes, I
Speaker 3: mean those scenes with him and his wife, I agree.
Speaker 3: I mean, she seems sort of shrill, but you have
Speaker 3: to sympathize with her to a great extent because as
Speaker 3: she's talking to him, he's doing those eyebrows and those
Speaker 3: other things are the vaticans, and they're very nice, eerie moments.
Speaker 3: I think in this in this.
Speaker 1: Episode, Yeah, there's some great use of those mannequins. And
Speaker 1: I think Helen, his wife, there is probably in the
Speaker 1: script and in the performance a certain little aspect of her.
Speaker 1: Even in this scene where she doesn't just write him off.
Speaker 1: It's not like, right, you're just nuts, you spend all
Speaker 1: your time with mannequins. There is a pleading aspect to
Speaker 1: it as well. She is very much like, come on,
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep working at this until you kind
Speaker 1: of snap outs of it and we can have something,
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty nice considering, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the times it is just a shrill wife.
Speaker 1: But she did have a couple of lays to it
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, Now what ends up happening, you can argue,
Speaker 3: is a writer in this case rod manipulating the circumstances
Speaker 3: so things happen just right. But she does insist on
Speaker 3: going along with him when he brings the mannequins. But
Speaker 3: then she also insists on taking a sleeping pill. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so you can say, well, that's a little bit crazy,
Speaker 3: and it sets up the situation where she's asleep in
Speaker 3: the car when he arrives so he can do what
Speaker 3: he does. But also, in its own way, it makes
Speaker 3: a certain amount of sense. She's terrified of the bomb,
Speaker 3: but she does want this marriage to work, so she
Speaker 3: wants to go along and be part of his profession.
Speaker 3: But she's too scared to be there in spirit, there
Speaker 3: in body. Yeah, and that works for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think with an episode like this,
Speaker 1: I kind of see it more as I don't know,
Speaker 1: not exactly tails from the crypt or something, but that's similar.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's suspense. You know, it's trying to set
Speaker 1: up a suspenseful story, and that's what's most important about it,
Speaker 1: which I think it does really well. So she pops
Speaker 1: a load of pills. They get in the car, and
Speaker 1: this is the point where, like I was saying before,
Speaker 1: the security guard's saying, it's thirty five miles down this
Speaker 1: And they get there and he decides to put his wife,
Speaker 1: who's now passed out on sleeping pills, in the bed,
Speaker 1: covers her with a blanket, hopes no one will see,
Speaker 1: and he's setting things up. Now, what's good is Rod
Speaker 1: isn't just going for the suspense leading up to like
Speaker 1: the end sequence with the bomb. He's layering little elements
Speaker 1: of suspense throughout. And one of them here is the
Speaker 1: commanding officer t Han Cannel I think he was. And
Speaker 1: that's a nice little suspenseful moment, isn't it, where he's
Speaker 1: going in to check the monicins.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's one of those moments again where it happens
Speaker 3: in a lot of programs. You're not necessarily rooting for
Speaker 3: this guy, but he's the character that is the character
Speaker 3: you're following, So on some level, you hope he doesn't
Speaker 3: get caught, even though that means that his wife will
Speaker 3: get blown up in an atomic explosion. So it is
Speaker 3: a suspenseful moment. Will the colonel find that he's put
Speaker 3: his wife in the bed instead of a mannequin? And
Speaker 3: as I said, you're sort of rooting that he doesn't
Speaker 3: find that. Now again, once again, there's some coincidences that
Speaker 3: happen there so that he doesn't find it. The colonel
Speaker 3: is like called away before he gets a good look
Speaker 3: at her. But once again, that's fine, but it is
Speaker 3: interesting that it puts you in that situation where you
Speaker 3: are rooting for a man who is trying to kill
Speaker 3: his wife with an atomic explosion.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I also think that before that, there's a really nice moment,
Speaker 3: which is after he's put all the mannequins into the house,
Speaker 3: the camera pans back out to the car and in
Speaker 3: the passenger seat where his wife was sleeping is the
Speaker 3: mannequin that he was dolling up by putting the eyebrows
Speaker 3: on and so on. So it's not just that he's
Speaker 3: left the mannequin in the back, which is where the
Speaker 3: mannequin was originally. He's put the mannequin in the front seat.
Speaker 3: She's essentially replacing his wife. And it's a nice creepy
Speaker 3: moment where the camera pans over and there's this mannequin
Speaker 3: in there where you're expecting, unless you've figured out what
Speaker 3: he's doing, where you're expecting to see his wife sleeping there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great moment. It really was. It
Speaker 1: really was. Now did you catch this? I'm sure the
Speaker 1: candle fluffs his lines once or twice he does. I
Speaker 1: think at one point, remember what he was talking about,
Speaker 1: like and these will all be ten to dust and
Speaker 1: it's going to be dangerous dust because it's going to
Speaker 1: be I think he was going to say radio Octavos
Speaker 1: on but he's like, it's going to be radio.
Speaker 3: You just he says something about the radio, yes, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: he fumbles his lines. There's also a moment where they
Speaker 3: close a door and the door opens back up again,
Speaker 3: and I think there's also I think the front of
Speaker 3: like the grandfather clock in the house opens up. So
Speaker 3: these are things that you know, they're they're not part
Speaker 3: of the story, they were not planned, they're clearly they
Speaker 3: they're recording this live and if the door opens, the
Speaker 3: door opens, yeah, you know it. Actually, it reminds me
Speaker 3: my parents, who were in their twenties in the in
Speaker 3: the in the early nineteen fifties, used to tell me
Speaker 3: that they used to watch this show on early television.
Speaker 3: They couldn't remember what the show was, but they loved
Speaker 3: it because it was done live, and it was hilarious
Speaker 3: all the mistakes that would happen, and it was done
Speaker 3: clearly on like a set, So a guy would like
Speaker 3: slam a door and like the whole wall would like
Speaker 3: flop back and forth, you know, things like this. So
Speaker 3: they got a lot of humor of these early days
Speaker 3: when they were doing these things. So this kind of
Speaker 3: stuff happened consistently in these shows that were live. They're
Speaker 3: just on sets, I mean, they're not out on location
Speaker 3: or anything. And if they close the door and the
Speaker 3: door happens not to close properly and it opens back
Speaker 3: up again, then they just ignore it and continue like
Speaker 3: you would on stage.
Speaker 1: Now, George he leaves Helen there in the bed and
Speaker 1: he drives back home with the mannequin that he's been
Speaker 1: making up and stuff. God knows what he had planned
Speaker 1: that night.
Speaker 2: But he.
Speaker 1: Hears the radio when he gets home and it's talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the atomic testing is going to happen tonight,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, And he gets a pang of
Speaker 1: conscious conscience, sorry, and he he heads over back to
Speaker 1: the site. Now, man, he's put some miles in tonight.
Speaker 3: I don't know where he's coming from. He has put
Speaker 3: some miles. If it's like thirty miles in each direction
Speaker 3: just from the gate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But he manages to get there just about
Speaker 1: in time, it seems. Now again, I really like the
Speaker 1: car scenes, the way it's set up. But he gets
Speaker 1: Helen out, he wakes her up and like he kind
Speaker 1: of confesses to her that he was going to kill her.
Speaker 1: And they get back into the car and they drive
Speaker 1: them back. Now, you know, we said about the nagging
Speaker 1: wife and stuff, and it's justified because George is such
Speaker 1: a bit of a flaky guy. But then it kind
Speaker 1: of undoes all of that in this car journey because
Speaker 1: she's like, Okay, he's just admitted he was going to
Speaker 1: kill me. She's like, well, you know, I just didn't
Speaker 1: give you a chance to die. It was too hard
Speaker 1: on't you. Maybe we can try again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, you know, but he came back for me,
Speaker 3: so you know he can't be then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, I'm not going to come down hard on
Speaker 1: it or anything like that. It is what it is.
Speaker 1: It's of its time and so on. But it's just
Speaker 1: such an odd thing, the sailing, because it is a
Speaker 1: great suspenseful scene as well. You hear the countdown on
Speaker 1: the radio as the driving away. You even see the
Speaker 1: flash of the explosion and he stops the car. I
Speaker 1: would have kept going, but yeah, me too, But that
Speaker 1: sailing kind of ends it on a note that was
Speaker 1: was it supposed to be sweet because George is still
Speaker 1: insane and he's just almost killed his wife. But what
Speaker 1: do you think of this?
Speaker 3: Al Yeah, it's a little bit odd, and I think
Speaker 3: on one level, I think it's that Rod came up
Speaker 3: with this idea, which you know, as I said, he
Speaker 3: had this flash of insight where he thought he you know,
Speaker 3: he read about the mannequins at Yucca Flats and he thought,
Speaker 3: I could come up with something where the guy who
Speaker 3: creates the mannequins tries to kill his wife by putting
Speaker 3: her in in his place. But then how do you
Speaker 3: end that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: So I think that's the problem. And I think he
Speaker 3: had a problem with ending it and I don't. And
Speaker 3: he didn't want to end it badly, you know, he
Speaker 3: didn't want he didn't want her to actually die in
Speaker 3: the explosion. So what do you do? And what you
Speaker 3: do is you reconcile them. Now, it's a bit of
Speaker 3: a tough go, but you can sort of justify it
Speaker 3: to some extent. You can say that she's been trying
Speaker 3: all along to keep this marriage together, and that she
Speaker 3: knows he's an odd duck, and she knows that he's
Speaker 3: possibly capable of crazy things. And on his side, you
Speaker 3: can I think there's a nice little situation here where
Speaker 3: because he's put her in the spot of the mannequin,
Speaker 3: he sort of starts to think of her along the
Speaker 3: way as he thinks of the mannequins. I think you
Speaker 3: can argue that she becomes somebody that is worth loving
Speaker 3: like he loves the mannequins, because he's transposed her with
Speaker 3: a mannequin briefly. So so I can sort of see
Speaker 3: him reconciling more than her. But the other question is
Speaker 3: which is not answered. I mean, I guess we're supposed
Speaker 3: to assume they're fine, but do they survive the explosion?
Speaker 3: I mean, are they far enough away? Because it ends
Speaker 3: as it ends, they like essentially hold hands, he touches
Speaker 3: her hand or something which shows, you know, they're together again,
Speaker 3: and then it ends there. I mean, we don't get
Speaker 3: what is the resultant great wins from an atomic explosion
Speaker 3: or anything. So I think we're supposed to assume that
Speaker 3: they're fine, but we're not. Actually, it doesn't go any
Speaker 3: farther than that, so we don't really know for certain
Speaker 3: that they're fine.
Speaker 1: Maybe that would have been a way to do it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because I assume that they're
Speaker 1: fine as well. But it's problematic in that it's just
Speaker 1: like you just tried to kill your wife. You know,
Speaker 1: you can't really just go back and like have dinner
Speaker 1: after something like that. But it would almost maybe it
Speaker 1: would have been better if if they'd have had this
Speaker 1: moment of reconciliation as they were consumed by the like
Speaker 1: the bomb, you know what I mean. That would have
Speaker 1: been an interesting way to end it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree, Maybe that's the way
Speaker 3: it should have ended. You know, the same shot with
Speaker 3: him holding her hand and then you know, just a
Speaker 3: bright light and that's it, you know, and who knows,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that's something Rod would have considered it. Maybe,
Speaker 3: you know, the suspense people said, no way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a bit much for that time, I guess, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So you know, we spoke at the beginning all about
Speaker 1: the staginess of those other ones and how I like
Speaker 1: this one, but I think it goes beyond just the
Speaker 1: fact that they move cameras. I think this one benefits
Speaker 1: almost from this setting, the kind of almost overexposed a
Speaker 1: look of it at sometimes it has this atomic glow yes,
Speaker 1: and I really think that it benefits from being at
Speaker 1: this time filmed in this way, and I think it
Speaker 1: all comes together really nicely in terms of the look
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Yeah, I agree, it has this
Speaker 3: very off kilter feel to it, which I think is
Speaker 3: perfectly appropriate when you're considering that you're setting is the
Speaker 3: spot where an atomic an atomic detonation is going to
Speaker 3: be happening. So so it's already a completely odd situation.
Speaker 3: And the gates or the guard are the car, the house,
Speaker 3: George's and Helen's house, where all the mannequins are sitting
Speaker 3: around the house itself, which one of the guards says
Speaker 3: at one point something along the lines of it looks
Speaker 3: like a house, and it's furnished like a house, but
Speaker 3: it ain't a house. I mean, it's that whole feeling
Speaker 3: throughout the whole show is like it's real and yet
Speaker 3: it isn't real, or it's built to be destroyed. I
Speaker 3: think that there's a whole cock eyed feel to the
Speaker 3: whole thing, and I think the way it's done with
Speaker 3: the sets, with the camera movements, with the close ups
Speaker 3: on the mannequins and on the various faces and so on,
Speaker 3: works really well to accentuate that uneasiness and that strangeness.
Speaker 1: I agree definitely. Do you think Rhodes was trying to
Speaker 1: say anything with this one or is he just just
Speaker 1: writing a straight up, good old suspenseful story.
Speaker 3: I think Rod is always trying to say something. This
Speaker 3: one may be a straight up suspenseful story, but I
Speaker 3: think that there is some commentary there in terms of,
Speaker 3: you know, how you view people and how you treat people,
Speaker 3: and you know, the brass, the Army Brass are dealing
Speaker 3: with these mannequins. They're supposed to deal with them as people,
Speaker 3: but they're also dispensable people, and I think that George,
Speaker 3: in dealing with manniquins is more real than people, is
Speaker 3: also part of this. So I think that, yes, I
Speaker 3: think there's an aspect of dehumanizing people in this episode.
Speaker 3: And I think that at the end of the episode,
Speaker 3: you could say that Rod is saying that George has
Speaker 3: found his humanity and part of that humanity is to
Speaker 3: deal with people as people and not as things, which
Speaker 3: is what he does with his wife at the end. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if Rod put that in
Speaker 3: there or not, but knowing Rod, I would suspect that
Speaker 3: that was part of his point.
Speaker 1: I suppose you could also say just the very act
Speaker 1: of bringing it into people's homes. You know, people have
Speaker 1: read about it on the news, people have read about
Speaker 1: in the newspapers and so on, but just the act
Speaker 1: of bringing it into people's homes, just saying, Okay, it's
Speaker 1: not something so far away anymore. You're right there in
Speaker 1: this house now. And even look, a woman is in
Speaker 1: this house when this is going to go off, Look
Speaker 1: at what's happening here. You know, I suppose you could
Speaker 1: also say that as well.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, it's a terrifying situation. You know, here are
Speaker 3: all these people in nineteen fifties America. That, yeah, that's
Speaker 3: a good point, Tom. There are people in nineteen fifties
Speaker 3: America already afraid of the bomb and already afraid in
Speaker 3: the Cold War, and then you bring this right into
Speaker 3: their homes, and you bring it right into this woman
Speaker 3: sleeping in this bed, all un knowing that she's going
Speaker 3: to get blown up up, which is the fear that
Speaker 3: people have during this time that maybe when they're asleep
Speaker 3: in their beds, they'll be an attack and they'll get
Speaker 3: blown up. So, yes, I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Thank you man, Thank you. So I guess to sum
Speaker 1: up then, i'll I mean, we both sound pretty positive
Speaker 1: on this one. What are your final thoughts on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I wanted to say a couple of things
Speaker 3: about the actors. First of all, before we sum up.
Speaker 3: I don't know much about a number of these actors.
Speaker 3: The star is a guy named o Z Whitehead who
Speaker 3: actually has a pretty full bio, but I wasn't familiar
Speaker 3: with him and he according to Wikipedia, the OZ stands
Speaker 3: for ooth out Zabriski. Wow, So it's not surprising he
Speaker 3: went with OZ. Yeah, and one of the things I
Speaker 3: like that Wikipedia mentioned on him is that because his
Speaker 3: initials spell OZ, that he was in an episode of
Speaker 3: Perry Mason called The Case of the Cowardly. So now
Speaker 3: his wife is played by Louise Larabie, and I don't
Speaker 3: know much about her either, but I don't. I don't
Speaker 3: watch much ahead with Alfred Hitchcock, just the same as
Speaker 3: you don't with the Twilight Zone. But I have watched
Speaker 3: like two or three episodes ahead and I just watched
Speaker 3: one with Louise Larabie in it, and in it in
Speaker 3: it she plays a nagging wife whose husband wants to
Speaker 3: kill her, only in the Hitchcock episode he succeeds. So
Speaker 3: I don't know if this was part of just what
Speaker 3: she had to deal with as an actress in the fifties,
Speaker 3: whether she was playing these roles often or not. But uh.
Speaker 3: But the two actors I do recognize in this episode
Speaker 3: are two of the guards, and one of them is
Speaker 3: Lonnie Lonnie Chapman, and he's in lots of stuff and
Speaker 3: he's very familiar for the Hitchcock perspective. I know he's
Speaker 3: he's like the counterman in the diner in the Birds,
Speaker 3: but he was if you look up his IMDb he
Speaker 3: was in tons of stuff. And the other guy is
Speaker 3: Pat Hengele, who who is known by a lot of
Speaker 3: people as Commissioner Gordon in The Batman, the Batman movies
Speaker 3: with my with Michael Keaton in them. But he's also
Speaker 3: in the Twilight Zone episode that you're going to be
Speaker 3: coming up to not too far down the line, the
Speaker 3: Incredible World of Horace Ford, in which I think he's brilliant.
Speaker 3: I think he is incredible in that episode. He's because
Speaker 3: it's an incredible world. But that's an episode I think
Speaker 3: is undervalued, and I think what makes it great actually
Speaker 3: more than anything else, is Pat Hengele's performance. So it's
Speaker 3: interesting to see him as one of these guards, clearly
Speaker 3: as a young actor just getting started. So yeah, So actually,
Speaker 3: the the interesting thing is the most recognizable actors to
Speaker 3: anybody today are two of the younger guys playing smaller roles.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, you know, I'll have to admit I
Speaker 1: didn't know is Pat Engle until I saw him on IMDb.
Speaker 1: But that's fascinating. I mean there's a couple of little
Speaker 1: connections as well. I think in the in the cast
Speaker 1: and crew. Let me see, there was something I noticed before,
Speaker 1: but I can't find what it was. Oh yeah, Oh no,
Speaker 1: it's a Batman reference. William Dozer. Oh, William Dozer, Yes,
Speaker 1: that was what it was.
Speaker 3: That's right, Yes, yeah, he was the executive producer of
Speaker 3: Suspense apparently, and is the executive producer and the narrator
Speaker 3: on Batman, the sixties TV show.
Speaker 1: All right, then let's sum up. What are your overall
Speaker 1: thoughts on this one.
Speaker 3: Well, we've pointed out the flaws in it, and it
Speaker 3: does have flaws, and perhaps the biggest flaw is the ending. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I think it all works very nicely in spite
Speaker 3: of that. And as we said, I think part of
Speaker 3: what makes it work is exactly the fact that it
Speaker 3: was this live show filmed probably off a kinescope by
Speaker 3: somebody just with a camera. That really adds to the
Speaker 3: atmosphere of it. So I think I think it's not
Speaker 3: only a terrific little episode, but I think it's clearly
Speaker 3: a forerunner to The Twilight.
Speaker 1: Soon Definitely, I think we're on the same page with
Speaker 1: this one. I really enjoyed this one totally, you know,
Speaker 1: flaws and all, and to a degree, the floors were
Speaker 1: part of the charm. You know, it's not pain effect
Speaker 1: because it's this rough round the edges live performance, even
Speaker 1: with like the the organ music that was too loud
Speaker 1: sometimes and I could just imagine, did they just have
Speaker 1: a guy sitting there playing the organ like d all
Speaker 1: the time?
Speaker 3: Very possible, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess they must have done. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like I like it as an artifact, like a
Speaker 1: sailing artifact. I like it as a piece of entertainment
Speaker 1: in its own right, and I like the fact that
Speaker 1: it genuinely had a kind of creepiness to it, the
Speaker 1: use of the mannequins, like you said, and angles, like
Speaker 1: there's a point where you see the monequin laying in
Speaker 1: the back of the car as well the way they
Speaker 1: go around that. So yeah, you can just you know,
Speaker 1: you can riff on all these things that were going
Speaker 1: to be picked up again in the Twilight Zone. So
Speaker 1: I think this is a great little art of fact,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad we spoke about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, And I think besides the after hours
Speaker 3: and there's probably more. I mean, you mentioned time enough
Speaker 3: at last, but I think you can see elements of
Speaker 3: it in the lateness of the hour with the way
Speaker 3: Helen criticizes George's obsession with these artificial things, and she
Speaker 3: actually at one point she even like pounds on one
Speaker 3: of the mannequins. She like hits it in the same
Speaker 3: way that Jana in the Lateness of the Hour sort
Speaker 3: of goes after the robots. And also, of course you
Speaker 3: can see elements of the shelter, so I think it
Speaker 3: is sort of a nice prototype twilight zone that shows
Speaker 3: a lot of the way Rod thinks and what he's
Speaker 3: gonna end up doing later on. And we didn't mention
Speaker 3: at all the auto light ads that are in it,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was so long, that are also
Speaker 3: just of their time in a really interesting and amazing way.
Speaker 3: And those I think were live too, because Operator twenty
Speaker 3: five Western Union Operator twenty five flubs are lied at
Speaker 3: a certain point, so I think they're actually filming the show,
Speaker 3: and then they move the camera over to this guy
Speaker 3: standing there to advertise auto light, and then they go
Speaker 3: back to the show. I think it was all just
Speaker 3: let's go with it and whatever happens happens, and that's
Speaker 3: really sort of great too.
Speaker 1: So I nearly went out and caught me call bastere
Speaker 1: changed after that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I mean that's in the radio shows.
Speaker 3: You're used to all the Alli light ads. But this
Speaker 3: whole big thing is needs it needs water only three
Speaker 3: times a year during normal car use, you know, and
Speaker 3: it's been so many decades since anybody had to put
Speaker 3: any water in batteries at all. That that in and
Speaker 3: of itself is sort of a museum piece.
Speaker 1: All parts of the charm, all parts of the charm. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I'll I guess we'll leave it there, mom Bo. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on and talking about with it.
Speaker 1: It's always a blast and you always bring so much
Speaker 1: to the conversation that it's always a pleasure. So thank you.
Speaker 3: Min Well. I appreciate it, Tom, and I always enjoy
Speaker 3: talking to you anytime you want to do you know,
Speaker 3: we were talking about doing these like every third month.
Speaker 3: I'm up for it. You want to do them more
Speaker 3: often than that, I'll see what I can do. I
Speaker 3: always enjoy seeing you and talking to you, and you're
Speaker 3: continuing to do a fantastic job on the Twilight Zone
Speaker 3: podcast and I can't wait for the next one.
Speaker 1: Thank you man. Thank you. So where can people find
Speaker 1: presenting Alfred Hitchcock Presents.
Speaker 3: Well, it's on YouTube. No, I'm sorry, it's not on YouTube.
Speaker 3: It's on iTunes, and I think you know, if you
Speaker 3: just put in presenting Alfred presenting Efort Ditchcock Presents, you know,
Speaker 3: in your search you'll probably find other places that it is.
Speaker 3: But it's also mainly on the annab Redistrict Library website,
Speaker 3: which is AADL dot org. So to get specifically to it,
Speaker 3: it's AADL dot org slash Hitchcock will take you to
Speaker 3: all of the episodes that are there right now.
Speaker 1: Brilliant, fantastic stuff. Fantastic stuff. So, as Il mentioned, and
Speaker 1: I've mentioned it before here on the After Hours Club,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to kind of go in rotation for
Speaker 1: this tier because you know, we'll be covering a night
Speaker 1: Gallery one month, and then Vintage Sailing and then the
Speaker 1: Loner and we'll just go around like that. So I
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're on board. And next time we'll
Speaker 1: put something up for the Board of Directors to kind
Speaker 1: of vote on it and we'll see what we get.
Speaker 1: But I can't wait to cover it. Thank you, al,
Speaker 1: thank you Tom.
Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to be sitting here in the After
Speaker 3: Hours Club.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that is enough from us. We're about to
Speaker 1: go and drive to an atomic test site and see
Speaker 1: what trouble we can cause.
Speaker 3: I can't wait, and.
Speaker 1: We'll speak to you next time, maybe if we survive,
Speaker 1: so I'll speak to you soon and bye for now. No, no,