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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. Day seven of the

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Gallaine Maxwell trial just wrapped up a little while ago

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and witnessed Carolyn, who went into a incredibly disturbing account

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of what happened to her at the hands of Maxwell

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and Epstein. She took the brunt of the questioning today.

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She was on the stand for most of the day

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and there were some pretty testing moments during the exchanges.

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As usual, Gallaine Maxwell's legal team have kept up their

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full court press and looked to destroy the credibility of

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each and every witness that gets on the stand. Now,

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obviously we're going to get to all of that, but

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there was also a pretty shocking revelation that came at

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the end of the day to day, and that was

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the prosecution saying that they're going to be prepared to

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wrap their case up by this week. Now. Remember this

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is supposed to be a five to six week trial

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according to the court and the prosecutors. Now all of

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a sudden, all of a sudden, today we're looking at

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it only being two weeks. As far as the prosecution goes,

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you would think that they'd have more up their sleeve,

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and it just goes right to the point that I've

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been trying to make forever, to be honest with you,

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that I have no confidence that the federal government of

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the United States has any interest in really bringing people

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who were involved in this to justice. They're throwing a

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little red meat here, right, folks. Ah, you know, in

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the interest of appearances, will pursue this a little bit.

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But in reality, if they really wanted to go after

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these people, if they really wanted to make sure that

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this all stuck, then the would have been a rico case.

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But now they're using this smaller scope the ten year period,

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and it certainly looks like the prosecution, at least from

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where I'm sitting, is not doing that great of a job. Now,

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the witness testimony has been pretty damning, There's no doubt

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about it. When you listen to these girls recount what

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occurred to the occurred to them at the hands of

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Maxwell and Epstein and their cohorts, it's distressing as hell.

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But there is so much more here that the prosecutions

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just leaving in the toolbox. And again it goes back

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to the original strategy. Why is it that only these

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four girls are being brought up as witnesses? We know

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that this is the same exact thing that occurred the

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first time around when they npaneled the Grand Jerry down

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in Palm Beach. They only brought one girl up to

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testify in front of the grand jury. And what did

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they do? They destroyed her credibility because she talked to

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some boys on MySpace at the time, and she drank

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and smoked some weeds, So all of a sudden, her

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testimony is not credible. And now fast forward to twenty

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twenty one and we see the same thing happening. Now,

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where's all the outrage? You know? You see all of

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these people who want to march and go crazy and

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act the fool whenever they can move the political football.

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But for something like this, you would think that people

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would be up in arms. So where is all of

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the solidarity with Jeffrey Epstein's survivors. I would like to

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see that same kind of energy put out there. But

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one thing I have learned in the past, oh, I

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don't know, two and a half three years of covering

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this case and investigating this case, is that perhaps ever

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when it comes to stuff like this, has been forgotten

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more than these girls. It has been an absolute travesty

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from start to finish. And now, just when you think

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that there's a chance for some of this stuff to

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come to light, just when you think there's a chance that,

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you know, the doors might get blown off of this thing,

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prosecution talks about resting their case. So that caught me

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really off guard, honestly, and I don't know what to

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think about it. So we'll have to see a little

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bit more what comes out in the overnight hours and

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into the morning about their strategy here. But I don't

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understand how they can even begin to think about resting

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their case. So we'll have to see what their strategy is.

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But as usual, I am not very confident at all,

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especially considering all of the circumstances surrounding all of it.

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I told you folks from Jump Street that I'm not

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confident in Maureen Comy. Why is Maureen Comy who is

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also prosecuting Nicholas TARTAGLIONI Why is she in charge of

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this case as well? So there's just a lot of

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things that never made sense to me. They still don't

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make sense to me, and I unfortunately I figured and

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knew that even after this trial there would still be

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way too many questions and not enough answers because this

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trial and the scope of this trial was never large enough. Now,

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I honestly don't know if or when we'll ever see

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any justice at this point, folks. And that's just the

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truth of the matter, as far as I can see it.

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It's a bit discouraging to hear that the prosecution is

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ready to close their case now. Maybe they think they've

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done enough to get a conviction already. And like I said,

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the testimony was pretty damning. But with all of the

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evidence that's available, all of the stuff that's been out there,

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all of the stuff that we have heard from these

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survivors about Maxwell and her behavior, you would think that

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they'd really try and ram the point home. You would

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think that they would bring a parade of girls to

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come out and testify, even if their testimony doesn't have

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to do with the actual charges. Wouldn't that be showing

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that this is the kind of person Maxwell is, kind

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of like character witnesses. You saw it with Harvey Weinstein

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in a few instances. So it's very disheartening to think

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that the prosecution is going to be done here. But

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I guess we'll have to wait and see, right, We'll

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have to see what comes of this, and we'll have

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to see what the next couple of days bring at

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the very least, because I'm hearing that they're talking about

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being done on Thursday, resting their case on Thursday, so

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one can only imagine what is on deck for tomorrow.

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Before we get to that, however, why don't we discuss

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what went down today inside of that courtroom and take

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a look at some of the proceedings that were underway

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in Day seven of the Glenn Maxwell trial. So the

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trial kicks off pretty much the same way as the

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other six day has the other the other six days

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have with the prosecutors and the defense arguing before the

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jury even comes in, this time over Jane, the witness

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who testified previously, and what she told her boyfriend and

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when she told them it. Judge Nathan decides that if

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the prosecution wants to call them to testify, then they'll

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have to call them after lunch. After that there was

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another sealed sidebar, and then the jury comes out to

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Uh to get started, So they never ended up bringing

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this uh other witness that they were talking about bringing

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out to talk today to put under oath and give

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their statement, So nothing came of that anyway, Maureen comy

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handling things right now as far as the first portion

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of the case today, and they continue on with the

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FBI agent from yesterday and evidence is once again provided.

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The agent was I was asked directly to identify the

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people in the pictures, and the agent identifies the people

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in the pictures as Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell. Uh.

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These photos are relevant because they were found on CDs

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from the twenty and nineteen raid of Epstein's and they

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weren't protected by the NPA from two thousand and five,

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by the way, And some of these CDs were found

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in that safe that you know we've talked about several

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times from the raid at Epstein's house when he was

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arrested the second time around. They found a bunch of

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stuff in that safe, diamonds, they found money, fake Saudi

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Arabian passport, all sorts of things. And Epstein was known

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to have some cash on hand so he can make

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you know, payoffs to his cohorts or for his air quotes, massages,

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stuff like that. But these CDs were found in twenty

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and nineteen and the photos that were put into evidence

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were showing Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell in these photos. Next

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to the evidence that's put into the court is sealed

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and prosecution they give the jurors instructions on where to

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find that in their binders the sealed file portion, so

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pictures are shown of Epstein and Maxwell hugging and then

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otherwise close poses the ones that aren't sealed, and after

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a short cross examination, the defense was done. So that

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wrapped it up for the FBI agent who finished off

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yesterday and started off today. It was about some of

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the evidence that was procured in the first of the

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second raid of Epstein in twenty nineteen. So this was

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an FBI agent who was involved in that raid, who

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was involved in handling the evidence, and this was somebody

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who was putting the pieces together to show the connections

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obviously between Maxwell and Epstein. Now, the next witness that

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they call up onto the stand is Stephen Flatley, an

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instructor from Quantico, which is the headquarters of the FBI,

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and he's in charge of one of their digital departments

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reconstructing hard drives and stuff like that. Comy goes on

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to ask Flatley about one of the hard drives that

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was registered to g Max and then referred to an

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email address from mindstring, MindSpring excuse me, that was Maxwell's

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Comy goes on to ask about an email that discussed John,

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which is interesting because remember Glenn Maxwell used to call

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Juan Juana Lessi John, And when you look at the

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things that she was talking about in this email, it

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was obvious that she was talking about Juana Lessi considering

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what his duties were as far as being Epstein's butler

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slash housekeeper. So again shows the ties, right, shows the connections.

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She goes on to talk about several things that John

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did poorly in this email, including a pool deck being

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dirty and there being no pens. She also went on

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to complain about massage creams that were left in disarray

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in Epstein's bathroom. So we know that Juanna Lessi has

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already testified about the bathroom, the sex toys, the massage

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oils and that stuff. So now we see an email

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from Glene Maxwell herself from the gmax account talking about

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this very thing, basically corroborating what Juanna Lessi said previously.

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So this gentleman from Quantico went through the whole entire

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spiel about you know, the computers, blah blah blah blah, blah,

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and then we're back to sealing items. So now Exhibit

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number four eighteen is offered up, but it's offered up

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under seal, and that's pretty much it for the prosecution

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as far as with this witness. The instructor from Quantico,

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now Laura Mettinger for the defense, begins her cross by

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asking several questions about computer files and if he, the

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FBI agent, can say for sure if anything was changed

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or not during copying, and he admits that he can't. Right,

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he didn't have possession of this computer all the time.

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He doesn't know what happened to it at all the time.

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So what they're trying to do here is established that

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there could have been somebody who could have messed with

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some files. Not a very strong defense, not a very

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strong strategy in my opinion, but that certainly looks to

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be what they're trying to set up. They were also

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talking about locations and if they could determine where Maxwell

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was with the emails, but with it being emails from

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a desktop computer, it would make geolocation a moot point,

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so there wasn't anything that they could gleam from that.

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And with that, that's it for this witness as well.

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Meninger releases this witness and the early morning of the

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proceedings is wrapped up. Now, like I said, the majority

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of this was Carolyn, who is testifying under her first name,

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and somebody who was allegedly abused by Maxwell and Epstein.

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So Carolyn next up on the stand, and the prosecution

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starts out asking some questions about her background, such as

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how long she went to school for and she responds

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that she dropped out school was done for her in

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seventh grade. She also goes on to discuss how her

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mother was an alcoholic. Now, remember, these are exactly the

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kind of situations that Maxwell and Epstein thrived upon that

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they were always looking for. They were looking for somebody

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from a broken home or in a situation where they

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needed financial help or other help. And they can swoop

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in and offer that help, but only if you played

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their game right, only if you came back to the

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house for the massages, and only if you brought other girls,

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and nothing was given for free. And we know that

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it was their complete and utter m o. How many

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of these girls were from disadvantaged backgrounds, How many of

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them came from parents who had drug addiction or parents

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who had money problems, working two jobs. And the sad

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reality is, folks, those are the people that are always

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prayed upon. They're the most vulnerable amongst us, and that

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is exactly where Jeffrey Epstein and Glinne Maxwell liked to

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focus their attention. When she was asked how old she

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was when she was first introduced to Epstein, she replied

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that she was fourteen and that someone named Sean introduced them. Originally,

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she says, she told Sean she was seventeen, but he

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found out her real age at her birthday party. Now

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think about that, She tells his duty seventeen, then at

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the birthday party finds out she's fourteen. I mean, really, bro,

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you're still hanging out with her? Really? She goes on

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to tell the court that it was this relationship with

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Sean that led to her meeting Virginia Roberts. According to Carolyn,

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she was introduced to Epstein to give him massages so

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she could make some money. Now, there was a whole

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thing where Glenne Maxwell's legal team was throwing Virginia's name

243
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around in this and we're going to get to that

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a little a little bit further down here. But it

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was quite transparent what they were trying to do. They

246
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,799
were trying to set it up as if Virginia Roberts

247
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:14,279
was a human trafficker and not Gallainne Maxwell, when in

248
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reality it was Glaine Maxwell, according to all these reports,

249
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,880
at the top of the food chain here giving the

250
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,400
orders for this to occur, normalizing all of this, grooming

251
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:35,200
all of them. She goes on to say, you know,

252
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she had no education, She's from a broken home. She

253
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,319
was in need of cash, and that's why she went

254
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,480
to give Epstein those massages. Right, three hundred bucks is

255
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,559
a lot of money when you have nothing, and to

256
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:53,480
be able to get it multiple times a week. Carolyn

257
00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:55,640
goes on to tell the court about meeting Glaine for

258
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,720
the first time and how she couldn't pronounce Maxwell's name,

259
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:01,240
so she just called her by her last name. She

260
00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:04,480
said that Maxwell had shoulder length, black hair and an accent.

261
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,000
Carolyn said that Maxwell took off her clothes and Carolyn

262
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:13,000
left on her bra and underwear, she says. Carolyn then

263
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:15,279
tells the court that after forty five minutes of giving

264
00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:19,920
Epstein a massage, he turned over he Epstein and him

265
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,279
and Virginia started to have sex. So we know from

266
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,960
Virginia's depositions, and we know from Virginia's reports that several

267
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:33,519
different accounts of it being a group type of thing

268
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,519
where Epstein was sexually abusing her in a group environment

269
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:43,000
and using that to normalize the process for the other victims.

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It was just an absolutely draconian method that this man had,

271
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,200
and he used these young girls to bring other young

272
00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:57,920
girls into his web. And what he would try and

273
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,119
do is give himself a bit of a buffer zone. Right.

274
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:06,519
Oh well, I wasn't paying them for sex, I you know,

275
00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:07,640
I was paying them to come over and give me

276
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,039
a massage. And then he'd have several layers between himself

277
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:14,759
and the actual payment, just like a criminal mob boss.

278
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:18,480
So again I ask you, how is it that Rico

279
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,519
is not being used here? Prosecution then asked Carolyn Carolyn

280
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,759
about payment and how much she would receive, and she

281
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,119
said she received three hundred dollars. She wasn't sure how

282
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,039
much Virginia was given. She also stated that Maxwell asked

283
00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:40,319
her for her phone number. So after this first time,

284
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,839
obviously Jeffrey Epstein was pleased and wanted to have Carolyn

285
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,799
come back for more air quotes, massages, and unfortunately that's

286
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,680
exactly what happened. Carolyn, when asked about how many times

287
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,440
she went to Epstein's, says that she went more than

288
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:02,000
one hundred times, at least two or three times a week,

289
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:04,839
from the time she was fourteen until she was eighteen.

290
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,720
She tells the court when asked why she went to Epstein's,

291
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,759
that three hundred dollars was a lot of money to

292
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:13,599
a young girl. This is something that we have discussed

293
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:19,480
a lot, and again, it is one of the easiest

294
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:24,799
ways for these people with gigantic amounts of financial resources

295
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,000
a huge influence to groom these girls who come from nothing,

296
00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:35,640
and it's a process that is very, very, very effective. Unfortunately.

297
00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:42,559
She recounts how when Maxwell would call, she would ask

298
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,039
Carolyn if she'd be able to see them if they

299
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,200
flew in. They also asked her about traveling and if

300
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,720
she could go overseas with them. She says she told

301
00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:54,160
them that her mother would never allow it. When she

302
00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:00,920
was asked if Maxwell newer age, Carolyn responds, she did know. So, Oh,

303
00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:04,960
let's frame that Maxwell's calling this fourteen year old girl

304
00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:08,319
to try and get her to go overseas on trips.

305
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,400
For what possible reason? Could you want to bring this

306
00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,759
fourteen year old girl on your trips with you overseas.

307
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:30,119
It is debased and absolutely disgusting. The assistant US Attorney

308
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,000
Pomerantz continues, Did Maxwell touch you? She asks? To this,

309
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:38,200
Carolyn responds with yes. When asked where on the body

310
00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:41,440
she was touched, she says her breasts. She says that

311
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,119
Maxwell told her she had a great body for Epstein

312
00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:47,759
and his friends. And his friends huh, very interesting. Again,

313
00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:51,279
how is it that the prosecution is even talking about

314
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,240
arresting this case. None of Jeffrey Epstein's friends are gonna

315
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,920
get caught up here, nobody else? What about the coken spear?

316
00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:05,160
Sarah Vickers, Sarah Kelln Vickers is gonna is gonna skate here.

317
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,279
It's gross, It's really gross, and it just again shows

318
00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:13,480
you that the justice system is completely broken, folks. It

319
00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,799
doesn't matter who's in office, it doesn't matter which tribe

320
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,720
is in office and telling you, you know, whatever sweet

321
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:22,640
lies they feel like handing out. The fact of the

322
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,440
matter is, nothing ever changes, and the most vulnerable amongst us,

323
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:30,519
meaning all of us, basically compared to these people, continue

324
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:39,480
to get absolutely squashed. Also, if it was just a massage,

325
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,279
why would Maxwell even comment on her body type? Right?

326
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,720
Why would it matter what her body type is if

327
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,799
she's getting a massage, It shouldn't matter one way or

328
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:50,920
the other. If she's big, small, anything in between, as

329
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,359
long as she can give a good massage. Right. But again,

330
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,039
this is a fourteen year old girl who was obviously

331
00:22:56,079 --> 00:23:02,200
not brought over there for massages. She also details how

332
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:05,920
Epstein would ask her questions about her upbringing, again trying

333
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,039
to set those claws in right now, this was a

334
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:12,400
big one by prosecution in my opinion. They asked Carolyn

335
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,319
about payment and if Maxwell ever paid her. Carolyn stated

336
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,400
that Maxwell handed her three one hundred dollars bills, So

337
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:25,680
that establishes that Maxwell was paying her for these quote

338
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:32,839
unquote massages, and it also shows culpability, right, shows that

339
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,839
she was a conspirator, a co conspirator. She knew that

340
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,640
these girls were being abused, according to their accounts, and

341
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,400
not only did she stand by and do nothing partake

342
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,319
in some cases, but she was also the one paying

343
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,920
the girls the money in some accounts. So again it

344
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:57,000
establishes big time that Glen Maxwell was a pivotal player

345
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,519
in this whole entire thing. Carolyn continued to talk about

346
00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:05,519
Epstein and how he sent her gifts like concert tickets, lingerie,

347
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,839
probably Victoria's Secret, and a massage for Dummies book. Now

348
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,440
we heard about the Massage for Dummies book at least

349
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,119
a copy of it before from one of the previous raids,

350
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,480
so this must have been a book that they were

351
00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:22,519
sending out all the time to try and get these

352
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,319
little girls hip to how to give a proper massage. Again,

353
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,759
it creeps me out, even saying that these people have

354
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,119
all the money in the world. Why in the hell

355
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:35,720
would these clowns be trying to get massages from these

356
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,039
young little girls if it wasn't for the purposes of

357
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:48,440
assaulting them. No other excuse, no other reason is logical

358
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:51,200
or makes sense. You don't bring a fourteen year old

359
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,000
girl over with no massage therapy experience to work the

360
00:24:55,079 --> 00:25:01,880
kinks out. Ca was also asked by the prosecution if

361
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,880
she ever brought other friends to Epstein's from massages, and

362
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,839
she says she brought three Amanda el who was a

363
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,880
year older than her, and then Tatum and Julie, who

364
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,200
were younger. She says she made six hundred and the

365
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,799
others made three hundred, so that was another stick of

366
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,559
Epstein's in Maxwell's and that's why some people call it

367
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,359
a sexual Ponzi scheme, right, a sexual assault ponzi scheme.

368
00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:31,799
He would get these one girl involved in his abuse

369
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,640
and then he would set her out by giving her

370
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,599
money to bring other girls in. And at the same time,

371
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,720
the process was normalized because the original girl who was

372
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:46,640
groomed and brought into the circle is telling these other girls, how, oh,

373
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,200
this is just normal. You want to make a few

374
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:49,880
hundred bucks, you just got to give them a massage.

375
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,480
So these other girls come in and they think this

376
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:55,319
is normal behavior, and you see how it all works, right,

377
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,119
and it's disgusting. And in Palm B we're talking dozens

378
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:08,480
and dozens and dozens of allegations like this, in what

379
00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:14,079
was probably a preemptive move considering the prosecution knew that

380
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,240
the defense was going to try and punch holes in Carolyn.

381
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,519
They talk about her drug addiction and what she spent

382
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:26,519
the money on, and she said she spent her money

383
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:30,880
on drugs. She also talks about giving birth and when

384
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,440
asked if she went back to Epstein, she says she did,

385
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,519
and even went while she was pregnant. So again it

386
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,519
just show It shows you the absolute hooks that these

387
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:49,279
people put in to these young girls. And we're not

388
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,519
talking about, you know, any gray area here. Okay, this

389
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,720
was a fourteen year old girl when she first came

390
00:26:55,759 --> 00:27:00,480
into Epstein's sphere. There's no excuse for it, there's no

391
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:06,359
defense for it. The prosecution also asked her about jail

392
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,400
time she did over pawning a video game console, and

393
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,279
she says she did time, but then she went to

394
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,799
drug treatment and therapy and she is currently on medication

395
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,640
to help her with her drug addictions. One of those

396
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,480
drugs is methadone, so obviously she had an opiate opiate addiction,

397
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,359
and this is very common, folks, for people who suffer

398
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,680
this kind of trauma. You're trying to run from it,

399
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,960
trying to hide from it, trying to get away from yourself.

400
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,440
So what's the easiest way to do that, right, drugs.

401
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,000
So you'll see a lot of these girls who have

402
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:44,279
unfortunately been caught up with Maxwell and Epstein and people

403
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,599
like them, turned to drugs, and it's just a whole

404
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:57,880
bad scene that follows it. Asking about the Xbox issue

405
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,799
and the father of her child shown on, she says

406
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:02,640
that she has not been in touch with him since

407
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,440
her arrest. She has also asked if she works or

408
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,119
has ever worked for an escort service, to which she answers. Sometimes,

409
00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:12,359
when asked what Maxwell did to her, she tells the

410
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,720
court she took pictures of her naked and of course

411
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:19,519
the other stuff with Epstein, and the prosecution presses the

412
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:23,160
issue and asks who decided who you would sue, to

413
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,559
which the defense objects. Judge Nathan sustains their objection, so

414
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:32,640
again setting it up because they know the prosecute, I mean,

415
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,759
the defense is gonna come hard after her character, so

416
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:39,160
they wanted to get it out there in open court

417
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,880
that she A had a drug problem, B did time,

418
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,680
and c worked as an escort after all of this occurred.

419
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,839
But that really doesn't matter in the long run, does it?

420
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,680
Or in the big picture? The trauma that she suffered

421
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,039
at fourteen years old obviously led her down this road.

422
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,880
So how can you begin to assess, tell her and

423
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:05,160
assault her for her life choices and for the things

424
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,759
that have happened after she was abused by Jeffrey Epstein

425
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:17,319
and allegedly Maxwell. It is ridiculous. Now, of course, it's

426
00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:20,039
the place of the defense to try and do that.

427
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680
But I really hope that the Jerry's paying attention to

428
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:27,279
what's going on here. So that's the end of it

429
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:31,359
for the prosecution with Carolyn, and they hand her over

430
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,079
to the defense for the cross examine, I mean for

431
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,200
the yeah, the defense for cross exam. The defense asks

432
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,920
if Sean was a friend of Virginia Roberts' boyfriend Tony

433
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,240
and if they smoked pot and drank booze together. Carolyn

434
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:49,519
answered that they didn't drink booze, so obviously Sean and

435
00:29:49,599 --> 00:29:55,559
TONI were friends and they smoked pot, just like I

436
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,839
don't know everybody you know at this point. I mean, really,

437
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:03,519
who doesn't smoke pot? And to act like smoking pot

438
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,440
or drinking booze or anything like that makes you not

439
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:09,599
credible when it comes to something like being assaulted is

440
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:12,880
just banana's land for me. I can't wrap my head

441
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,279
around anything like that. And if I was ever on

442
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,960
a jerry and somebody tried to infer that, I would

443
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,920
definitely be thinking that they don't have much else to

444
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,440
go on. Right, Well, I'm gonna need some evidence. She

445
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,960
was asked if it was Virginia who told her that

446
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,160
she could make three hundred dollars, and she answered, no.

447
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,759
What Pagliuca is doing here is he's trying to attempt

448
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:41,599
to set the tone that Virginia was the trafficker, not Maxwell.

449
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,079
And he asked if Maxwell was there when she was

450
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:48,759
approached about making five hundred dollars, and Carolyn says, no,

451
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,319
Maxwell was not there, it was just her in Virginia. Again,

452
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,759
Maxwell states a name in court that they shouldn't, this

453
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,359
time using Carolyn's last name. So it's become a pattern now,

454
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,680
right almost to the point where you have to ask yourself,

455
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,640
are they attempting to dox these witnesses because they shouldn't

456
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,680
be mentioning their names. Okay, they shouldn't be mentioning last names.

457
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,759
If these girls are testifying anonymously, then that's the way

458
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:22,039
it should be kept. But the scumbaggery that's being shown

459
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,680
here by Maxwell's lawyers, it's you get what you pay for.

460
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:29,119
Right when you're paying for this kind of money, these

461
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,839
guys are going and ladies are going to push the envelope,

462
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:39,519
and that's exactly what they're doing. So after all of

463
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:44,640
that nonsense and Glen Maxwell's lawyers, once again acting the

464
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,440
full judge, Nathan calls for a lunch break. After they're

465
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,039
done with the lunch break, the cross examination begins in

466
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:54,480
Earnest and the defense begins by asking her about the

467
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:59,640
FBI notes from her twenty seventeen interview. Now, it's interesting

468
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,319
because as the two thousand the interviews that you have

469
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:08,400
with the FBI, those aren't, you know, the word of law, right,

470
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,400
they're not. The FBI isn't taking those not those notes

471
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,200
word for word. Those are notes. So I don't think

472
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,000
that the defense bringing that up is going to help

473
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:20,960
them in the long run here. I think it's kind

474
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,359
of a moot point and kind of a spinning of

475
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,039
their wheels tactic. Now, I know, I said, I'm not

476
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,880
confident really in the federal government, but I haven't seen

477
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,599
much from Glenn Maxwell as far as evidence proving that

478
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,799
she's innocent here either. So it is going to be

479
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,720
very interesting the defense. The defense says, the FBI notes

480
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,079
say that the woman had an unknown accent to and

481
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,359
to this, Carolyn disagrees. She says that she told them

482
00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:57,359
that the woman had an accent. Uh. Pagliuca continues that

483
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,720
she knew what a British accent was, but she said

484
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,119
on and once again he was implying that she's a liar.

485
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,880
Asking about the second time that she went to Epstein's house,

486
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,240
he says, so, for the second visit, you sat in

487
00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:15,880
the kitchen and spoke with the chef. Now, I'm guessing

488
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:19,720
the timeframe lines up here and that that chef was

489
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:25,000
Adam Perry Lang. So it definitely looks like that is

490
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:27,519
the case as far as the timelines are concerned. But

491
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,680
that wasn't mentioned in court or anything like that. Carolyn

492
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:35,319
responds that she isn't sure if that was her second

493
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,240
visit or if it was some time after that, And

494
00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:40,400
at this point, the defense calls for the court to

495
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,960
show the witness what she said in two thousand and seven.

496
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,160
So again back to the FBI notes, which would signal

497
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,079
to me that they don't have much else to go

498
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,319
on here, right. So it's one of those interesting situations

499
00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:59,200
where I'm certainly not confident in what we have seen

500
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,759
as far as the prosecutions performance. But at the same time,

501
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:09,079
I haven't seen a defense here that would get Maxwell off,

502
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:17,440
at least in my opinion. Carolyn tells the defense that

503
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:22,199
the FBI didn't ask her about Maxwell. Pagliuca presses by

504
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,400
asking her if she is saying the FBI put a

505
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,199
gag on what she could say, and she responds again

506
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,639
that she wasn't asked about Maxwell. And to this, the

507
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,599
defense responds by stating that she told the FBI about

508
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,559
Sarah Kellen Vickers or just Sarah and the Incubis tickets

509
00:34:39,559 --> 00:34:43,559
from Epstein, and then Carolyn said that she responds yes

510
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:49,920
to this, so he is asking her about the whole

511
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:57,079
entire gag here on what she could or couldn't say,

512
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,840
and she says that there was no gag and that

513
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:09,679
when they pressed about the email with Maxwell about Sarah

514
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:15,119
Kelln Vickers, that it was factual that she did get

515
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:19,719
these Incubis tickets from Epstein. So again it's more gifts, right,

516
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,039
and what the defense is trying to do here is

517
00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:24,519
point out that it was Sarah Kelln Vickers and that

518
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,840
it was Jeffrey Epstein. It was everybody but Glenn Maxwell.

519
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,440
That's what the defense is trying to point out right here.

520
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,960
The defense also probes Carolyn about her move from Florida

521
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,719
to Georgia, and they asked her about the lawsuits that

522
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,679
she filed. Carolyn cuts them off and asks what they

523
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:42,960
have to do about what those have to do with

524
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:51,079
her moving to Georgia. Again, it's uh one of those

525
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:54,880
things where if you're a witness on the stand, you

526
00:35:55,039 --> 00:35:58,400
have to get frustrated right when you're getting peppered by

527
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,840
the defense here like this. So she is being absolutely hammered.

528
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:10,199
He's talking about why she moved from Georgia to Florida,

529
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,400
and he is basically saying that it was because she

530
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,599
had to go get clean, and she says that the

531
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,920
reason she was leaving is to escape from the trauma.

532
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:29,320
So right after this again, Maxwell calls for another break,

533
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:42,599
the afternoon break. At this point, coming back from the return, now,

534
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,519
Maureen call me asks how long the defense expects this

535
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:49,360
cross examination to go on for and there's no response

536
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,440
to the question. So the defense starts right in again

537
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,559
and they questioned Carolyn, and this time asking her if

538
00:36:56,599 --> 00:37:00,679
she ever remembered using drugs when she was thirteen. Carolyn

539
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,079
says that if you consider pot a drug, then yes.

540
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,599
So again you see it, folks, And it's the story

541
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,079
right of the defense. Their job is to try and

542
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:17,719
continue to destroy the credibility. And it seems to me

543
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,039
anyway that all they have to go on as far

544
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:24,039
as credibility issues to destroy is the fact that this

545
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:27,320
girl might have smoked some pot, or she might have

546
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,960
hung out with some boys or something like that. It's ridiculous.

547
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,159
The defense then tries to leave the witness, stating that

548
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,599
she went to Georgia to get clean, but Carolyn says

549
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:43,280
that that wasn't the reason. She says she went there

550
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,639
to escape her past trauma, and the witness was asked

551
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:52,159
if she was doing cocaine when she was at Epstein's house,

552
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:56,440
and she responded a note to that. The defense then

553
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:59,599
refers to previous lawsuits and reads, did you have sexual

554
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:05,480
inner with mister Epstein? Defense reads the answer no. Carolyn

555
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,239
speaks up during this and replies that she wasn't a

556
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,800
willing participant. So they were reading from those the documents, right,

557
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,480
the three to zero two's that the FBI provided, and

558
00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:21,400
the defense reads it, did you have sexual intercourse with

559
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,519
mister Epstein and then the answer that Carolyn provided no.

560
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:29,960
Now in the middle of this, she stops the defense

561
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,800
attorney and she says that she wasn't a willing participant.

562
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,639
That's why she said she didn't have sexual intercourse with Epstein,

563
00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:41,119
because she didn't she was raped by him, so it

564
00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:49,679
wasn't in her course. She goes on to say that Maxwell,

565
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,559
that Glenn Maxwell fondled me and broke my soul, and

566
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:55,840
at this point the defense moves to get the comments

567
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,599
struck from the record, and Judge Nathan, after advising the

568
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,559
witness follow the rules, orders the jury to disregard that comment.

569
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,440
She is had enough, right and you could tell by

570
00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:12,039
at least just by the notes that we had coming out,

571
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:17,679
because remember, folks, this is just an accumulation of different

572
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,320
courtroom tweets and notes that are coming out as the

573
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,480
trial's going on. But you could tell that she had

574
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,960
had enough during this cross examination, and there were several

575
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,599
times here where she went off off of the playbook

576
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,880
and said stuff like that Galene Maxwell fondled me and

577
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,639
broke my soul. Can you imagine what this girl went

578
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:49,239
through in her life. Again, the defense is probing about

579
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,000
money received from the compensation fund, and Carolyn again goes

580
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:55,039
off of the script and she says that no amount

581
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:57,960
of money can heal her. And as she's saying this,

582
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,320
she's cut off by the defense, who once again moved

583
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,719
to strike the witness comment from the record, and once

584
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,440
again Judge Nathan agrees. She orders the jury to disregard

585
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:10,639
the comment, and she again instructs the witness to follow

586
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:15,360
the rules. Carolyn's crying now, and the defense asks if

587
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,079
she claimed to have seen a picture of Maxwell pregnant,

588
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,239
and she responds she did nude and pregnant, and she

589
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,039
goes to continue her response, but the defense cuts her

590
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,800
off at this point, stating that they have no further questions.

591
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,960
With a few minutes left, marine Comy asks if if

592
00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:35,960
Caroline Carolyn is here to get money, and she responds, no,

593
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,920
she is here because what Maxwell did is wrong. Again,

594
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:44,280
the defense objects, the state ends it they have no

595
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,960
further questions for the witness, but Pagliuca is not finished yet.

596
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,239
He asked her about the money she received in two

597
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,639
thousand and nine, but the money was gone by twenty twelve,

598
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,000
and this was four hundred and forty six thousand dollars.

599
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:00,960
He asked her what happened to it? She says she

600
00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:03,840
doesn't know, she has kids to take care of. The

601
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,559
defense with their ham handed approach, continues, you can't recall

602
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,039
how you spend four hundred and forty six thousand dollars.

603
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,199
You lost all of it. No further questions and with

604
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,960
that for folks, day number seven comes to a close

605
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,519
in the Gallain Maxwell trial. They're sure is a lot

606
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:26,840
to unpack today, And I'm sure as the day goes

607
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,000
on and we get more information about the prosecution resting

608
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:35,119
their case as soon as this week, then maybe we'll

609
00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:38,559
have more clarity. But as of right now, I don't

610
00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:42,239
even know what to say about the prosecution preparing to

611
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,800
rest its case now. As far as the testimony given today,

612
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,159
I thought that it was pretty powerful testimony. It certainly

613
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:56,280
sets the foundational blocks we've been talking about, and it

614
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,960
continues to connect the dots. Oh, we'll see what tomorrow

615
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,559
morning brings. But one thing I can tell you is

616
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,840
it's going to be interesting, all right, everybody. If you'd

617
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,800
like to contact me, you can do that at Bobby

618
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,360
Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's b O B B

619
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:21,000
Y c A p U C c I at ProtonMail

620
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:24,000
dot com. You can also find me on Twitter at

621
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:27,920
b O B B Y underscore c A p U

622
00:42:28,039 --> 00:42:31,960
C c I. The links that we discussed can be

623
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:33,280
found in the description by