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Speaker 4: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK every
Speaker 4: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 4: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 4: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 5: Good Evening. On February thirteen, twenty and seventeen, two Indiana teenagers,
Speaker 5: Abigail Williams thirteen and Liberty German, fourteen, went for a
Speaker 5: walk in the woods near the abandoned Monen high Bridge.
Speaker 5: They never returned home. Their bodies were the sky on
Speaker 5: Valentine's Day morning, sparking a torrent of news coverage and
Speaker 5: social media speculation that engrossed the attention of people around
Speaker 5: the world. A grainy photo of the suspected killer walking
Speaker 5: across the bridge in a chilling cell phone recording of
Speaker 5: his voice saying down the hill captured the public's attention.
Speaker 5: Numerous possible suspects were brought to the attention of the
Speaker 5: authorities but dismissed, leaving everyone wondering who could have committed
Speaker 5: such a heinous crime. Author Nick Edwards, host of the
Speaker 5: wildly popular True Crime Garage podcast, was fascinated by the
Speaker 5: case and for years conducted his own extensive research and commentary.
Speaker 5: As such, he was able to dissect the investigation that
Speaker 5: included an extensive list of possible suspects such as a
Speaker 5: hatchet wielding lunatic, a kidnapper with unusual tattoos, a murderous pastor,
Speaker 5: a rapist, and a father and son catfishing team. Then,
Speaker 5: in late October twenty twenty two, local pharmacy technician Richard
Speaker 5: Allen was charged with the murders. His arrest raised multiple
Speaker 5: questions about how he was able to evade law enforcement
Speaker 5: for so long and what motivated him to commit such
Speaker 5: a horrific crime. In the Delphi murders, the quest to
Speaker 5: find the Man on the Bridge, Edwards and his best
Speaker 5: selling co author Brian Whitney give a very soft voice
Speaker 5: Susan provide a detailed account of the investigation, from the
Speaker 5: day the girl's bodies were found to the events leading
Speaker 5: up to Allan's arrest and a unique insight into the
Speaker 5: minds of the killer and those who work tirelessly to
Speaker 5: bring him to justice. The book that we're featuring this
Speaker 5: evening is The Delphi Murders, The Quest Define the Man
Speaker 5: on the Bridge with my special guest, journalist and author
Speaker 5: and host of True Crime Garage, Nick Edwards. Welcome to
Speaker 5: the program, and thank you so much for this interview.
Speaker 5: Nick Edwards.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me on True Murdered Day.
Speaker 6: It's always been a goal of mine as a podcaster
Speaker 6: to be on your show and a life goal of
Speaker 6: mine to write a true crime book, and so today
Speaker 6: I'm able to check a couple of boxes off here.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, and it's a thrilled to have
Speaker 5: you on finally on True Murder, and congratulations on this
Speaker 5: incredible book, The Delphy Murders.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Let's start off just as you do in the introduction,
Speaker 5: sort of an introduction to where you have lived and
Speaker 5: how you came to understand and learn about this case
Speaker 5: involving this bridge guy. And this is in Carroll County Commet.
Speaker 5: You were talking about the Carroll County Comet newspaper and
Speaker 5: every day when you resided in central Ohio, as you
Speaker 5: still do, you would go to the mailbox and get
Speaker 5: your Carroll County Commet newspaper.
Speaker 2: Why was that?
Speaker 5: And tell us about everything you learned at that time
Speaker 5: about the Bridge guy.
Speaker 6: Well, I became a subscriber. It's a weekly, small paper
Speaker 6: that comes out out of Carroll County, Indiana, and it's
Speaker 6: seven eight pages, roughly very small community, very small newspaper,
Speaker 6: and a lot of it's just things going on in
Speaker 6: that community. Well, I became a subscriber to that newspaper
Speaker 6: years ago because I was so crazy involved as a
Speaker 6: armchair detective websleuth person from Afar mainly as my daytime
Speaker 6: job as a true crime podcaster, became very wrapped up
Speaker 6: in this murder investigation, and so I thought, you know what,
Speaker 6: I'll subscribe to their local newspaper. And it shows up
Speaker 6: in my mailbox about once a week, usually on a
Speaker 6: Wednesday or a Thursday, and I go and I pull
Speaker 6: it out of the mailbox. And for years, you know,
Speaker 6: we knew what the suspect looked like, or at least
Speaker 6: we thought we did, because the girls in this horrific
Speaker 6: situation were brave enough to capture his image via cell
Speaker 6: phone and America. This case very quickly became a nationwide case.
Speaker 6: Hit the spotlight quickly, and it very quickly spread to
Speaker 6: other states, and many people online were looking for the suspect.
Speaker 6: The suspect that we were calling Bridge Guy or BG
Speaker 6: ended up getting all kinds of different monikers over the years,
Speaker 6: and so I, like many other people, thought that if
Speaker 6: I spent enough time on this, or if I just
Speaker 6: kept looking, that was the only way to assatiate my
Speaker 6: fascination with this case and with the investigation itself, was
Speaker 6: to troll around and look for Bridge Guide. Didn't think
Speaker 6: that I actually would, but given I believe that the
Speaker 6: suspect was local, and that's what law enforcement was telling us.
Speaker 6: They believed that he was local or had ties to
Speaker 6: the Delphi area. And so I thought, you know what,
Speaker 6: I'll subscribe to this newspaper and every week I checked
Speaker 6: out to the mailbox would retrieve it, and then I
Speaker 6: would thumb through the pages looking at all the pictures.
Speaker 6: And again, like I said, we all thought we knew
Speaker 6: what Bridge Guy looked like. As much as it helped
Speaker 6: the investigation having a photograph of the man on the
Speaker 6: bridge in other ways, that also hindered the investigation.
Speaker 5: Now you take us in this book back to Delphi, Indiana,
Speaker 5: and take us back to shortly before this and the
Speaker 5: things that happened in the area that you lived in
Speaker 5: and the crimes that affected you earlier on before you
Speaker 5: were the co host of True Crime Garage.
Speaker 6: Well, doing different interviews throughout the years in regard to
Speaker 6: my work with True Crime Garage, almost always some of
Speaker 6: the first questions that I get, what got you into
Speaker 6: true crime, what got you into podcasting? You know what
Speaker 6: inspired you to start a true crime podcast? And so
Speaker 6: I thought, you know what, maybe let's go ahead and
Speaker 6: answer some of those questions in the book as well.
Speaker 6: Because the book is very much about the case, the
Speaker 6: Delphi double murders case, it's also very much about the
Speaker 6: investigation because in that investigation, they were not telling they
Speaker 6: being law enforcement, were not telling the public a lot
Speaker 6: of information about the case, and they were public was
Speaker 6: very starved for information about the case, mainly because law
Speaker 6: enforcement kept coming to us and asking us for our help.
Speaker 6: Have you seen this man? Do you know who this
Speaker 6: man is? Here's some behaviors, some post offense behaviors that
Speaker 6: we think that he may be experiencing or exhibiting for
Speaker 6: all to see, and maybe you the public, could tell
Speaker 6: us who Bridge guy is or identify him for us.
Speaker 6: So it was this weird back and forth, right where
Speaker 6: you have law enforcement asking the public for help, but
Speaker 6: in turn not giving the public very much information about
Speaker 6: what it is that they knew or what possible evidence
Speaker 6: they had in the case. In fact, we knew we
Speaker 6: didn't even know how the girls were killed. And so
Speaker 6: it was this very interesting situation, and it was a
Speaker 6: case that I got very much wrapped up. And I
Speaker 6: chose to tell the story in this manner because it
Speaker 6: did involve some of me in the story.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: The book is very much about the case, the investigation,
Speaker 6: and mainly my observations and my observations about the investigation,
Speaker 6: but also my observations about what I was hearing other
Speaker 6: people question about the investigation itself. And in the forward,
Speaker 6: I think that I laid it out perfectly or the
Speaker 6: best I could for the reader going forward as they
Speaker 6: march into this book. That says, you know, portions of
Speaker 6: this book were written in real time before and arrest
Speaker 6: was made. This murder investigation was nearly six years active
Speaker 6: before charges were filed. Here in these pages you will
Speaker 6: find the timeline, the facts, and one man's thoughts, observations
Speaker 6: and obsessions with an American murder investigation. This tragedy was
Speaker 6: never far from my heart and it is. It's a horrible,
Speaker 6: heart breaking story of two girls that were out in
Speaker 6: a public setting in the middle of the week and
Speaker 6: they were abducted in broad daylight. And an incredibly heartbreaking
Speaker 6: story and an incredibly heartbreaking case, but also a very
Speaker 6: fascinating murder investigation. Parts of it played out in front
Speaker 6: of our eyes as we watched over the course of
Speaker 6: five and a half years.
Speaker 5: Tell us about as you write. February thirteen, twenty and seventeen,
Speaker 5: Abby Williams, thirteen year old, and her friend Liberty Libby German,
Speaker 5: fourteen year old, were dropped off by Libby's older sister Kelsey.
Speaker 5: Now tell us a little bit about this scenic moanin
Speaker 5: high Bridge, this abandoned railroad bridge that goes over the
Speaker 5: Deer Creek in Carroll County, Indiana, and tell us about
Speaker 5: the previous evening over at Libby's house.
Speaker 6: So Delphi, Indiana. This is very much a tight knit community,
Speaker 6: great people, hardworking people, god fearing people, it's all of
Speaker 6: the earth. And on that day Kelsey, Libby's old sister,
Speaker 6: drops the two of them off too. They're going to
Speaker 6: enjoy a day outdoors. It was unseasonably warm for that day.
Speaker 6: They were going to go out and hike the trails.
Speaker 6: There's beautiful trail system that leads up to this mon
Speaker 6: And High bridge, and it's an abandoned train bridge, rail
Speaker 6: railroad bridge from years ago that it's not part of
Speaker 6: the trail system. You're not really supposed to be out
Speaker 6: there walking on it, but many people do, teenagers, adults, kids,
Speaker 6: And from my understanding, I didn't grow up in this area.
Speaker 2: I grew up in Ohio.
Speaker 6: But from my understanding, for the younger folks, this is
Speaker 6: kind of a rite of passage, right at some point
Speaker 6: that a friend or a loved one or a cousin,
Speaker 6: you go out there on the trails and at some
Speaker 6: point we all either cross the bridge or we don't
Speaker 6: cross the bridge, chicken out and don't go across it.
Speaker 6: And on this day Libby, who had crossed the bridge
Speaker 6: on several occasions before. You know, she has an older sister.
Speaker 6: Maybe she went there at one point with her older
Speaker 6: sister and cross the Moan and High Bridge. But on
Speaker 6: this day, Abby her best friend. These two were the
Speaker 6: tightest of friends, the kind of friends that were so
Speaker 6: close in relationship and had been such longtime friends that
Speaker 6: often they're the kind that you would see Abby and
Speaker 6: not Libby. Your first question is going to be, well,
Speaker 6: where's Libby right? And of course the opposite when you
Speaker 6: see Libby without Abby. You were used to seeing the
Speaker 6: two of them together, super tight friends, the best of friends.
Speaker 6: And on that day Libby was going to take her friend,
Speaker 6: and the two of them were going to cross the
Speaker 6: Moan and High Bridge together.
Speaker 5: Now you talk about there that someone was supposed to
Speaker 5: pick them up, and that being the father Derek. Correct,
Speaker 5: And it's a complicated family situation. She lived with her
Speaker 5: grandparents actually, But tell us about what happens and what's
Speaker 5: the last correspondence that family members have with Libby.
Speaker 6: The last real correspondence would be when Libby and Abby
Speaker 6: were dropped off that day by Libby's sister, and when
Speaker 6: Derek arrives at the trails. We're dan, we're only talking
Speaker 6: about a very small window of time that has passed here, roughly,
Speaker 6: let's say two hours. To make it nice and neat,
Speaker 6: but Derek shows up to retrieve the girls, and Libby's grandmother,
Speaker 6: Becky Patty, is kind of the boss of the family.
Speaker 6: And as you said, Libby's being raised by Becky and
Speaker 6: her husband, Mike Patty, and they're the nicest, best people.
Speaker 6: And Grandma basically says to Libby, sure, you know, if
Speaker 6: you can get a ride there, and if you can
Speaker 6: get a ride back, because Becky's out working that day,
Speaker 6: if you can secure a ride there and back, sure
Speaker 6: the two of you can go out to the trail system.
Speaker 6: And you can only be out there a brief period
Speaker 6: of time. Whatever time you can get dropped off and
Speaker 6: whatever time you get picked up, that's that's the parameters.
Speaker 6: And so Derek arrives and he's calling Libby's cell phone.
Speaker 6: Libby got a cell phone for Christmas, just a couple
Speaker 6: months earlier, and so he's not getting in touch with Libby,
Speaker 6: and so he ownes Becky and says, you know, I'm
Speaker 6: at the location. I don't understand I can't get a
Speaker 6: hold of her. And now we have Grandma who's going
Speaker 6: to join in the efforts of trying to contact Libby,
Speaker 6: and before we know it, we have a lot of
Speaker 6: Libby's family out there searching for both of the girls
Speaker 6: that evening. Now, both of these were good kids, but
Speaker 6: you know, they were also of the teenage years, and
Speaker 6: we all know that it's not terribly uncommon for teenage
Speaker 6: kids to not be where they.
Speaker 2: Say they are going to be.
Speaker 6: So I don't think that anybody was overly panicked that evening,
Speaker 6: but there was enough of a concern that law enforcement
Speaker 6: was called and a more formal search was put together
Speaker 6: looking for the two girls. It got dark. It was
Speaker 6: unseasonably warm that day, but it got cold evening. It's Indiana,
Speaker 6: it's February, and at some point the sheriff tob Lesenbie
Speaker 6: and the Carroll County Sheriff's Department, along with the firefighters
Speaker 6: and all the other persons that were there searching for
Speaker 6: the girls, they had to decide to call off the search.
Speaker 6: This is rough terrain. It can be dangerous. The moan
Speaker 6: in high Bridge itself, I think I would as somebody
Speaker 6: who does not enjoy heights that much, I would consider
Speaker 6: it to be dangerous anytime of day, let alone in
Speaker 6: the dark. But it's because it's a nature area trail system.
Speaker 6: It's not well lit. They call off the search, and
Speaker 6: so Mike Patty goes on the late night news just
Speaker 6: informing everybody, hey, my granddaughter's missing. Me and a bunch
Speaker 6: of other people and the Sheriff's department have been out
Speaker 6: here looking for her. We also have some of Abby's
Speaker 6: family that were on the news that night, and you
Speaker 6: can view those news segments on YouTube still to this day,
Speaker 6: and you see the parents, or the acting parents, who
Speaker 6: you can see the look of concern on their face.
Speaker 6: But again, nobody's overly panicked at this point, right, and
Speaker 6: the search for the girls would resume very early the
Speaker 6: next morning. Now where I sit in Ohio, this was
Speaker 6: not even news for us. I'm over two hundred miles away,
Speaker 6: and it wasn't news to us, And I was already
Speaker 6: doing our true crime garage podcast at that point, still
Speaker 6: working a day job. I've been very lucky to have
Speaker 6: a wonderful audience that we've grown throughout the years, a
Speaker 6: loyal audience, and now I'm able to make true crime
Speaker 6: garage my day job. But back then, I was the
Speaker 6: leader of a team involved, heavily involved in my demanding
Speaker 6: job at the time, and it wasn't until the day
Speaker 6: after the girls were found that The story found me
Speaker 6: via the Internet and when I read the short, little
Speaker 6: new snippet of two girls are missing in a public
Speaker 6: area and a park basically let's call it a park
Speaker 6: for a lack of a better term, and then they're
Speaker 6: found near by and they foul play suspected two homicides.
Speaker 6: When I read that snippet, I knew right away a
Speaker 6: couple of things. The first thing I thought, for I'm
Speaker 6: trying to envision how this could have went down, so
Speaker 6: I'm thinking a lot of things had to take place.
Speaker 6: But also I was thinking, well, this will probably be
Speaker 6: solved relatively quickly, typically the way that a homicide works,
Speaker 6: and Dan, you're you know this better than anybody because
Speaker 6: you've been doing this for so long. Typically it's a
Speaker 6: pretty basic scenario. Person A is angry at person B,
Speaker 6: and something happens, and person B is killed by person A.
Speaker 6: That's typically how these things work. Well in this situation,
Speaker 6: we're talking about younger folks. Our two victims were younger,
Speaker 6: and often police and detectives are going to investigate our
Speaker 6: social circles, our families, our colleagues. But when we talk
Speaker 6: about younger people, typically they have a smaller social circle
Speaker 6: than us adults do.
Speaker 2: Sure, and so I thought very likely this would be solved.
Speaker 6: They would have a suspect in custody within twenty four
Speaker 6: forty eight seventy two hours. Traditional police work was going
Speaker 6: to work real well here. And then no, we find
Speaker 6: out three days later that no, that's not going to
Speaker 6: be the case. And oh, by the way, there's some
Speaker 6: interesting evidence that they have in this case that we
Speaker 6: typically don't have in a lot of other cases, especially once.
Speaker 2: The drag on.
Speaker 5: You talk about that evidence that is released, it is
Speaker 5: very very interesting. But there so tell us about the
Speaker 5: evidence that they did have and did release an immediately,
Speaker 5: but also the things that weren't answered for you at
Speaker 5: all that you have to just speculate about.
Speaker 6: One thing that was very strange about the case was
Speaker 6: we get a picture of somebody that they were not
Speaker 6: calling a suspect. They were saying, this is somebody that
Speaker 6: we would like to talk to. This person was in
Speaker 6: the area on the day that the girls went missing,
Speaker 6: So we know that they're dropped off in the afternoon,
Speaker 6: and then the following day their bodies are found around noontime,
Speaker 6: and we're not told how they were killed or how
Speaker 6: they were found. We know they were found by one
Speaker 6: of the search teams, but the state of the crime
Speaker 6: scene of where they were found, we're not given information
Speaker 6: about that. We're not told they've not narrowed down the
Speaker 6: time of death or as far as what they were
Speaker 6: telling the public. And then we get this picture of
Speaker 6: a guy that police say that they want to talk to,
Speaker 6: that they believe he could have some information, he's probably
Speaker 6: a witness. And I've seen this, and you know, I've
Speaker 6: been doing true crime garage since twenty fifteen. We've reviewed
Speaker 6: hundreds of cases, and I've been eyeballs deep in true
Speaker 6: crime books for years now, a couple decades in fact.
Speaker 6: And I'd seen in other cases, especially when we have
Speaker 6: more sophisticated investigators, typically state police, larger agencies that have bigger,
Speaker 6: better resources than some of the smaller agencies.
Speaker 2: And then you have the FBI as well.
Speaker 6: But I've seen in many cases where they do they say, Hey,
Speaker 6: this is a person that we just want to talk to,
Speaker 6: and oftentimes I've never seen it pan out where that
Speaker 6: person is not the suspect that they are actually looking for.
Speaker 6: And it's not it's not terribly common, but it doesn't
Speaker 6: it has happened on occasion where they say, this is
Speaker 6: a person we would like to talk to, or here's
Speaker 6: a description of somebody that was seen in the area,
Speaker 6: or a vehicle that was seen in the area, and
Speaker 6: the person that actually committed the crime will try to
Speaker 6: get ahead of that by going to law enforcement and saying, hell, oh,
Speaker 6: by the way, that blue car that you mentioned on
Speaker 6: the news the other and I'm the owner of the
Speaker 6: blue car. I was in that area for this reason
Speaker 6: or that reason, not because I was doing anything terrible.
Speaker 6: So in this case, immediately Dan, I'm thinking, this is
Speaker 6: our suspect, and I was wondering how long it was
Speaker 6: going to take. I was wondering would this guy walk
Speaker 6: into the Carroll County Sheriff's department and try to explain
Speaker 6: away why his image was captured there on the trail
Speaker 6: system or would it drag on where they were unable
Speaker 6: to locate this guy. And if it does drag on,
Speaker 6: how long until they change this narrative into this is
Speaker 6: our actual suspect And what other information did they have
Speaker 6: about this guy who they just had his image at
Speaker 6: that time or it only released the image to the public.
Speaker 6: So it was a bizarre investigation to me, and a
Speaker 6: very intriguing investigation, because here we go, they're releasing what
Speaker 6: I call bread crumbs to the public of this is
Speaker 6: what we have and we need your help public, and
Speaker 6: here's some bread crumbs to lead a part way down
Speaker 6: the trail. But at some point we need somebody to
Speaker 6: start giving us bread crumbs in return to help us
Speaker 6: with our investigation. So I had a lot of questions
Speaker 6: about what was going on there in Carroll County.
Speaker 5: Now let's talk about that image itself, the issues that
Speaker 5: you had and other people had with the image itself,
Speaker 5: and then what actually does the image show and portray.
Speaker 6: Well, the problem I've always had at the image, Dan
Speaker 6: is that you review people's statements online social networks and
Speaker 6: social media and whatnot, And even people on camera who
Speaker 6: have talked about this case, they often say, dissect the
Speaker 6: image and tell you what Bridge guy or what the
Speaker 6: person who later we're told is the suspect. They tell
Speaker 6: us what he looks like. And I've always looked at
Speaker 6: this picture and gone, it's not that great of a picture.
Speaker 6: I don't think we know what Bridge guy looks like.
Speaker 6: In fact, I think it's a little irresponsible to sit
Speaker 6: here and pretend to know what he looks like based
Speaker 6: off of this image. And that's why I say early
Speaker 6: in the book that all we really knew was that
Speaker 6: we were looking for a white male who was wearing
Speaker 6: a blue or dark colored jacket out on the trail
Speaker 6: system that was seen on the bridge that day. That's
Speaker 6: truly when you look at that, I think those are
Speaker 6: really the only very concrete things that we can truly
Speaker 6: take away from this photo. You know, I've seen everything
Speaker 6: under the sun, argued and debated about what people think
Speaker 6: that they see in this photo online over the years.
Speaker 6: Is he wearing a hat, Now, he's not wearing a hat.
Speaker 6: His hood is up. Yes, he is wearing a hat.
Speaker 6: It's one of those flapjack hats. He's wearing boots. No,
Speaker 6: he's not wearing boots. He's wearing tennis shoes. He has
Speaker 6: something in his jacket, he has a fanning pack on.
Speaker 6: He's wearing something covering his mask, covering his face. So
Speaker 6: there were all these items that were truly just up
Speaker 6: for debate at the end of the day. While this
Speaker 6: picture is intended and hopefully will help us get an
Speaker 6: arrest and find the suspect, it was also causing a
Speaker 6: stir amongst the general public because nobody could really agree
Speaker 6: on what it is that he looked like.
Speaker 5: Now, there were some witnesses discovered by police that it
Speaker 5: saw this bridge guy. Apparently, what was the sketch that
Speaker 5: was released and what was the response to the sketch.
Speaker 6: Well, that was another troubling thing with this investigation. So
Speaker 6: we get a composite sketch of the suspect released to
Speaker 6: the public, and people went wild with that sketch. And
Speaker 6: then later, much later in fact, we get a different
Speaker 6: composite sketch that I mean some say is it's supposed
Speaker 6: to be a younger version of the of the previous sketch.
Speaker 6: So the first sketch was released in July twenty seventeen,
Speaker 6: and in that sketch, interestingly enough, it shows a man
Speaker 6: and who is older in appearance than the follow up
Speaker 6: sketch that is released in April of twenty and nineteen.
Speaker 6: And in the first sketch we see an older man
Speaker 6: with a hoodie on and he's got some kind of
Speaker 6: possibly a goatee, definitely some kind of facial hair, and
Speaker 6: he is wearing a hat in the sketch, and then
Speaker 6: in the follow up sketch in April of twenty and nineteen.
Speaker 6: We see what I would describe as a much younger
Speaker 6: looking man, more clean cut, with no facial hair, a
Speaker 6: more prominent chin, not wearing a hat, and there's no
Speaker 6: hood depicted around his neck like we have with the
Speaker 6: previous sketch. So and then we're told by law enforcement
Speaker 6: that this new sketch is taking priority. We want you
Speaker 6: to focus on this new sketch more than the previous sketch.
Speaker 6: And so this was very interesting and a weird kind
Speaker 6: of strategy that, Look, I'm not gonna lie. I've seen three,
Speaker 6: maybe four other cases that I can think of, where
Speaker 6: multiple composite sketches of suspects were released and they don't
Speaker 6: particularly look like one another. So that wasn't totally outside
Speaker 6: of the box there. But most people weren't used to
Speaker 6: that kind of information coming from law enforcement, and I
Speaker 6: don't think a lot of people knew what to do
Speaker 6: with that information. In fact, what I had seen too,
Speaker 6: and what I was hearing Dan, was that this new
Speaker 6: sketch was it wasn't just news to the public. It
Speaker 6: was news to a lot of people in law enforcement,
Speaker 6: and it was news to the families of the two
Speaker 6: victims as well, that they had found out fifteen to
Speaker 6: twenty thirty minutes before the rest of us that, oh,
Speaker 6: by the way, today we were releasing a new and
Speaker 6: very different composite sketch of the suspect that we were
Speaker 6: looking for.
Speaker 5: One last thing. They did take some audio from Libby's phone,
Speaker 5: and they did release that to the public again asking
Speaker 5: for the public self, what was that audio clip, what
Speaker 5: did it contain, and what did you deduce from that
Speaker 5: clip itself?
Speaker 6: Well, so the two victims here, when they were approached,
Speaker 6: Libby takes out her cell phone. Maybe she already has
Speaker 6: it out because we know that she snapped a photo
Speaker 6: of Abby prior and that was released on snapchat. And
Speaker 6: so something about this man on the bridge spooked her
Speaker 6: or nudged her enough. There was something about him. Maybe
Speaker 6: they had seen him before on one of the trails,
Speaker 6: maybe they had passed him and he was creepy earlier.
Speaker 6: Or maybe it's the way he's walking, you know. When
Speaker 6: that image later became a very short video clip of
Speaker 6: him taking step and a half or two steps on
Speaker 6: the bridge, I always thought that it looked like he
Speaker 6: was moving at a rather uncomfortably fast pace on that bridge.
Speaker 6: We're talking about an abandoned railroad bridge that's very tall,
Speaker 6: very high. It goes over the creek. If you stumble
Speaker 6: and fall, you're going off the side of that bridge.
Speaker 6: It's not incredibly wide there, it's old, it's run down,
Speaker 6: there's probably ties that are missing. So he our bridge guy,
Speaker 6: our suspect, is lucky enough that when his image is captured,
Speaker 6: he's looking down. That's probably because he's keeping an eye
Speaker 6: on his footing as he's going across the bridge. I'd
Speaker 6: always wondered if he was moving at an uncomfortably fast pace,
Speaker 6: and maybe that tip the girls off that there's something
Speaker 6: up with this dude, because he's going across this bridge
Speaker 6: fast and we just came across it, and look how
Speaker 6: careful we were as we were going across this bridge.
Speaker 6: So they capture an image of him, and later it's
Speaker 6: released as a clip, a video clip, and then we
Speaker 6: also get an audio clip of a man's voice saying
Speaker 6: down the hill, and then later several months later, released
Speaker 6: a little more and we're told he's saying, guys down
Speaker 6: the hill. And what was difficult about that Dan was
Speaker 6: nobody could decide was was guys from another part of
Speaker 6: the audio, and down the hill was a different portion
Speaker 6: of the audio, and they put them together for the
Speaker 6: public to hear. But one thing that was obvious to
Speaker 6: me and many other people was that this was the
Speaker 6: suspect controlling the victims. This was the suspect moving the victims.
Speaker 6: So it is an abduction by definition at this point,
Speaker 6: he's controlling their movements, he's taking them somewhere that they.
Speaker 2: Do not want to go.
Speaker 6: And from what we were being told, there was about
Speaker 6: forty seconds or so forty three seconds I believe, of
Speaker 6: audio clip. And so when you hear that, go okay,
Speaker 6: well we got the audio clip must have come from
Speaker 6: the video. The video and the audio clip must be
Speaker 6: one and the same. So does that mean we have
Speaker 6: forty to forty five seconds of video as well? What
Speaker 6: other audio could be on there? What other video could
Speaker 6: be on there? And it's very likely what happened was
Speaker 6: that as he approached that look, Lebby was smart enough
Speaker 6: and brave enough to film him briefly, but also smart
Speaker 6: enough that as he got near, she probably concealed her
Speaker 6: phone in some manner, either putting it in her pocket
Speaker 6: or at least holding it down and maybe the audio continues,
Speaker 6: but there's no video that is important to the investigation
Speaker 6: after that clip of him on the bridge. So where
Speaker 6: the audio, the video, the picture? All of that was
Speaker 6: great evidence, And think thank you to the braveness of
Speaker 6: these two girls, because I don't know Dan. I sit
Speaker 6: here in twenty twenty three and I have to wonder
Speaker 6: without that would we where would we be? Would this
Speaker 6: still be a case without an arrest? And if so,
Speaker 6: how long would it have been until an arrest was made?
Speaker 6: And would this been a case would have been a
Speaker 6: double homicide? Could have potentially gone unsolved for forever. Now,
Speaker 6: of course it's not adjudicated yet, but yeah, I really
Speaker 6: wonder without Libby an Abby really putting themselves out there
Speaker 6: and getting and collecting this evidence for us, what the
Speaker 6: state of the investigation would be today.
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Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 5: When we last left off, you talked about thank God
Speaker 5: that Libby had the presence of mind to capture this
Speaker 5: bridge guy. What about to find my phone feature? Why
Speaker 5: was that not working on Libby's phone?
Speaker 6: Lybya had done with the assistance of a relative had
Speaker 6: done a factory reset on her phone, and in fact,
Speaker 6: when her family was out looking for her and looking
Speaker 6: for Abby the night that they were missing, they were
Speaker 6: attempting to use that find my Phone feature that many
Speaker 6: of us are familiar with on our cell phones. But
Speaker 6: when Lyby had done the factory reset on her phone,
Speaker 6: you have to go in in a lot of the apps,
Speaker 6: you have to reinstall them, and this was an app
Speaker 6: that she had not reinstalled on her phone, and therefore
Speaker 6: it was not working that night when the families were
Speaker 6: out looking for the girls.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about some of the people that come up
Speaker 5: as suspects and why. And first off, Ron Logan.
Speaker 6: Well, Ron Logan, he becomes a suspect because technically the girls,
Speaker 6: their bodies are found on his property. So as we said,
Speaker 6: you know this is public property, the trail system, and
Speaker 6: then you go over the Moan and High Bridge and
Speaker 6: then once you get over that side, so being a
Speaker 6: right of passage, typically what people do Dan is they
Speaker 6: go to the other side of the bridge. You know,
Speaker 6: you raise your your arms up in victory. You've you've
Speaker 6: done something, you've achieved something that some people have passed
Speaker 6: on and you just there's really nothing to do once
Speaker 6: you get to the other side of the bridge. It's
Speaker 6: a bunch of private property once we get to that
Speaker 6: other side of the bridge. So typically the kids, the teenagers,
Speaker 6: they turn around and go back. Now, some people will
Speaker 6: use this as as a way to access the trail system,
Speaker 6: so other people are coming from that side, but it's
Speaker 6: it's rare. For my understanding, ron Logan becomes a suspect
Speaker 6: for the first reason just the proximity his property and
Speaker 6: where the bodies are found. And then of course he
Speaker 6: is on the news, the local news, which very quickly
Speaker 6: spreads throughout the state of Indiana and beyond the state line,
Speaker 6: and people were looking at Ron Logan's image. And mind you,
Speaker 6: we've not heard the audio clip yet at this point,
Speaker 6: but people were going, oh, my goodness, this guy that's
Speaker 6: doing this interview. He's wearing a blue, dark blue jacket.
Speaker 6: And people were saying online and sure locally as well,
Speaker 6: that this guy looks like the image of the guy
Speaker 6: that we have on the bridge. So for that reason
Speaker 6: he is looked at. Now, one thing that I did
Speaker 6: in the book was I do talk about several other cases,
Speaker 6: some of them kind of touch on them. A little
Speaker 6: more briefly than others. A couple of the cases I
Speaker 6: go quite in depth with, and I also go into
Speaker 6: a bunch of the suspects. And while nobody was named
Speaker 6: publicly by law enforcement as an actual suspect, there were
Speaker 6: certainly many people that were named by the public and
Speaker 6: people online as potential suspects in the Delphi murder case,
Speaker 6: and a lot of them for good reason. We're not
Speaker 6: talking with the exception of Ron Logan. The other people
Speaker 6: that I mentioned in the book are pretty horrible people,
Speaker 6: people that were involved in either rape, murder, abduction, those
Speaker 6: types of crimes, which isn't very far from what we're.
Speaker 2: Talking about with the Delphi case.
Speaker 6: So in the book, a couple of things that I
Speaker 6: did on purpose and I think it was necessary to
Speaker 6: dan was on true crime garage. One thing that we've
Speaker 6: learned over the years that I know any good investigator
Speaker 6: will tell you this, and if you read any John
Speaker 6: Douglas book, you're going to get a heavy dose of this.
Speaker 6: But you can take these other cases right when you're
Speaker 6: reviewing this unsolved case and you're trying to make heads
Speaker 6: or tails of each of the different details and pieces
Speaker 6: of evidence in the case. You can often take other cases,
Speaker 6: especially ones that have been solved, and you can go,
Speaker 6: you know, what, what did we learn in that case
Speaker 6: that had a similar situation or it had a similar
Speaker 6: aspect to that investigation? Did we learn by that once
Speaker 6: it was solved, and how can we apply it to
Speaker 6: this unsolved case? And so that's something we do on
Speaker 6: the podcast, and so of course I did it there
Speaker 6: in the book. And then also there were talks of
Speaker 6: maybe this case is tied to other unsolved cases. The
Speaker 6: Evansdale case is one that it was rumored to possibly
Speaker 6: be tied to for a very long period of time,
Speaker 6: and we know that law enforcement actually looked into that
Speaker 6: because of the similarities. Now, these cases took place great distance,
Speaker 6: not only in time and distance from one another, but
Speaker 6: some of the aspects were the same. Two victims abducted
Speaker 6: in broad daylight, in the middle of the day, in
Speaker 6: a public setting, and it's not exactly sure where that
Speaker 6: the Evansdale victims were last when they were deducted. If
Speaker 6: we knew that for a fact, would probably know who's responsible.
Speaker 6: But I thought that it was fitting and I thought
Speaker 6: it was educational for not just the reader but me.
Speaker 6: Piecing the story together as well to examine some of
Speaker 6: these other cases and of course take a good look
Speaker 6: at all of the people that were named online or
Speaker 6: otherwise as suspects in the Delphi case.
Speaker 5: What's interesting is also you write about it to a
Speaker 5: certain degree, is that did you put yourself in this
Speaker 5: real time scenario to demonstrate this? Is that a lot
Speaker 5: of these people look very good because of those similarities,
Speaker 5: and in fact, it's sort of a phenomena where you
Speaker 5: are adamant to be able to close this and some
Speaker 5: of these people because of the crimes that they have
Speaker 5: already committed and the similarities in the crime in many
Speaker 5: of the aspects, it looks like we're very close to
Speaker 5: finding the person that's the perpetrator in this case. And
Speaker 5: then you talk about an announcement about a development in
Speaker 5: the case with somebody online named Anthony Shots. Can you
Speaker 5: explain this case where this phenomena is on display well?
Speaker 6: And I think that it's fair, right. I think that
Speaker 6: it's human nature. We want to know who did this,
Speaker 6: We want to get the bad guy off of the streets.
Speaker 6: We want to protect our family and more more so
Speaker 6: our children. And we're talking about a child predator who
Speaker 6: took the lives of Abby and Libby, Yes, and so
Speaker 6: a very dangerous person. And it's also it's very difficult
Speaker 6: for any of us, and it should be rightfully, so
Speaker 6: it should be. It's very difficult for any of us
Speaker 6: to believe that, Okay, this guy woke up on this
Speaker 6: day and abducted and killed two children. It's very difficult
Speaker 6: for any of us to wrap our heads around the
Speaker 6: idea he has not done this before, and of course
Speaker 6: if he's done it once, he's always capable of doing
Speaker 6: it again. So it's very natural to look at somebody
Speaker 6: that's done some other horrible, despicable act of evil and
Speaker 6: then say, you know what, can we put him in
Speaker 6: Delphi on that afternoon? Can we put because because really, truly,
Speaker 6: out of all the arguments and all the debates that
Speaker 6: were going on online or in the dark corners of
Speaker 6: bars throughout this country, because again, this was a nationwide case,
Speaker 6: and especially here in the Midwest of the United States,
Speaker 6: it was a case that was talked about at great
Speaker 6: length and a great deal by many people, and being
Speaker 6: covered on a lot of media outlets as well. But
Speaker 6: everybody seemed to have their favorite suspect, somebody that they
Speaker 6: liked better than the others, and so I think that
Speaker 6: people wanted to see, can we take this person and
Speaker 6: fit them in here. But again, at the end of
Speaker 6: the day, all that truly matters. You can wipe away
Speaker 6: a lot of the good arguments that people made over
Speaker 6: the years for individuals. The key ingredient here to this
Speaker 6: secret sauce of solving this investigation is you have to
Speaker 6: be able to put that individual on the trail system
Speaker 6: between two pm and even let's say five pm at
Speaker 6: probably the latest that day. And if you cannot put
Speaker 6: that person there between two pm and five pm that day,
Speaker 6: he's not a good suspect. And as far as Anthony
Speaker 6: Shots goes was that was a whole kind of new
Speaker 6: or maybe resurgence is probably a better word for the investigation,
Speaker 6: because early on there there was some rumors because of
Speaker 6: social media and the nature of some of the details
Speaker 6: that were coming out about the case, and a lot
Speaker 6: of speculation, and some of it very disrespectful speculation about
Speaker 6: the two victims their children that we're talking about here,
Speaker 6: that was coming out and that was kind of made
Speaker 6: up about the two victims, But there was talk that
Speaker 6: so much so that social media aspectors or some kind
Speaker 6: of dating app aspect was important to this investigation.
Speaker 2: In fact, at.
Speaker 6: One time there were people online calling Bridge guy the
Speaker 6: Snapchat kill. And so when this information comes out about
Speaker 6: Anthony underscore Shots, Indiana State Police were looking for information
Speaker 6: about this Anthony underscore Shots character and they came across
Speaker 6: some of this information in their del Pi murder investigation. Well,
Speaker 6: people's ears perked up and immediately they thought, well, this
Speaker 6: the two have to go hand in hand. The two
Speaker 6: have to be directly tied together. Law enforcement basically said
Speaker 6: that to us as far as many people were concerned.
Speaker 6: And I got to tell you, Dan, when I started
Speaker 6: learning more about the fictitious Anthony Shotts character, the catfishing team,
Speaker 6: potentially catfishing team, I should say, of a one Kegan
Speaker 6: Klein and then his father, Tony or Anthony Klein has
Speaker 6: referenced a lot in talks about Kagan, but Kagan was
Speaker 6: actively He's been charged with thirty different counts of such
Speaker 6: types of behavior. Of basically, this is a predator that
Speaker 6: we need to make more parents and children aware of,
Speaker 6: because what this guy was doing is downright despicable, and
Speaker 6: at the same time he seems to navigate these waters
Speaker 6: with ease. And I don't think that he's a particularly
Speaker 6: bright guy. I know that he's really good when it
Speaker 6: comes to lying. I could tell you that from all
Speaker 6: the transcripts that I've reviewed, but put it plain and
Speaker 6: simple for those that don't know. Peg and Klein took
Speaker 6: a picture of a model, this Justin Bieber, looking kind
Speaker 6: of model, attractive, young model guy with blonde hair, six
Speaker 6: pack abs, and he creates this fake, fictitious online profile
Speaker 6: of this young good looking guy with a bunch of
Speaker 6: money in sports cars. And oh, by the way, this
Speaker 6: young good looking guy with the money in the sports cars,
Speaker 6: for some reason, he wants to talk to a bunch
Speaker 6: of on underage girls online. And not only does he
Speaker 6: want to talk to him, he wants to try to
Speaker 6: get pictures from them, pictures of them, pictures and videos
Speaker 6: from them. He's asking them, could you you think your
Speaker 6: younger sister would be interested in sending me some pictures?
Speaker 6: And a lot of the back and forth, a lot
Speaker 6: of the dialogue between Anthony shots. Again, this fictitious character
Speaker 6: and these victims that he found on social media and
Speaker 6: on apps and on the internet is very gross stuff,
Speaker 6: very very disgusting stuff. But again he was able to
Speaker 6: do this with with relatively relatively easily, and able to
Speaker 6: even network with the victims. And the thing that really
Speaker 6: stood out to me, Dan, and I'm sitting here looking
Speaker 6: at this thing, and as you know, and as you
Speaker 6: keep pointing out, the book is written in my thoughts
Speaker 6: are delivered kind of in real time as I'm experiencing
Speaker 6: the investigation and the information coming out. And I sat
Speaker 6: there going, Man, if this guy is not involved in
Speaker 6: some form or fashion, I would be shocked. Because the
Speaker 6: thing that stood out that I found bizarre was that
Speaker 6: he was he was talking to underage girls in Indiana.
Speaker 6: That to me seemed very different.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 6: Look, online predators have been around for a long time,
Speaker 6: but oftentimes these guys are talking to people in other states,
Speaker 6: even other countries. This guy was purposely talking to girls
Speaker 6: that he may know their families or had been to
Speaker 6: cities that they lived in, girls that lived somewhat nearby.
Speaker 6: And so that was a very different kind of and
Speaker 6: a more scary online predator to me to think that
Speaker 6: he had better access to his victims if he wanted
Speaker 6: to go and meet them or or try to lure
Speaker 6: them somewhere.
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Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 5: Anthony Shots and the Klein family looked so good because,
Speaker 5: like you say, they were corresponding with as you write,
Speaker 5: a friend of Libby, this Alexis was corresponding with this
Speaker 5: Anthony Shots, and you write that Libby also became infatuated
Speaker 5: with this Anthony Shots. So this air look like, based
Speaker 5: on everything, look like they would be the perpetrators. They
Speaker 5: were possibly, you said, Anthony, Tony the father could be
Speaker 5: the bridge guy. But then you were working and you
Speaker 5: were away from the garage from the true crime grage,
Speaker 5: and you've got a message. Tell us about this incredible
Speaker 5: day that you got that message and what that message was.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that goes along with the idea that I
Speaker 6: was going to be shocked if it was anybody other
Speaker 6: than or if keg and Klin was not involved, because
Speaker 6: that is what law enforcement was saying to Kegan Klin
Speaker 6: was that Libby, I believe their they're exact words. Libby
Speaker 6: was infatuated with Anthony shots. And I don't know how
Speaker 6: much of that was interrogation tactics. We have a trial
Speaker 6: that will happen at some point, and and I'm sure
Speaker 6: we're going to learn a lot more once this thing
Speaker 6: comes to trial. But yeah, you're right, I was out.
Speaker 6: I do work for a couple of nonprofit organizations, and
Speaker 6: on that particular day, I was working with the Porch
Speaker 6: Light Project. And the Porch Light Project is a nonprofit
Speaker 6: victim advocacy program that a friend of mine, James Renner,
Speaker 6: who you've had on your show. He's a true crime
Speaker 6: author as well. Yes, he founded this and he asked
Speaker 6: me to be involved. And so I'm a board member
Speaker 6: and I do a little more than just vote on
Speaker 6: what cases we should take on I go out there
Speaker 6: and actually get boots on the ground with a couple
Speaker 6: of the cases and been involved heavily with some of
Speaker 6: the cases. So on that day I was driving about
Speaker 6: two and a half hours away from my home to
Speaker 6: wrap up a couple things with the case that we
Speaker 6: were working on. We have actually solved a couple cases
Speaker 6: and furthered along some investigations. So very proud to be
Speaker 6: a part of that great organization. If you want to
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Speaker 6: But yeah, on that day, Dan, I got a text
Speaker 6: from somebody in Indiana Law enforcement and it simply said,
Speaker 6: and arrest has been made Delfi, Indiana, and I knew.
Speaker 6: I knew exactly what that meant without needing further description.
Speaker 6: And I was able to wrap up what I was
Speaker 6: doing that day and leave relatively quickly because all I
Speaker 6: could think about was my goodness if this because this case,
Speaker 6: as many of them are, but you know, I was.
Speaker 2: I was completely wrapped up in this case for a.
Speaker 6: Very long period of time, and so it had a
Speaker 6: lot of highs and a lot of lows, like many
Speaker 6: cases do. But this case in particular, had a lot
Speaker 6: of rumors that would come out, and a lot of
Speaker 6: them were just bad rumors, and very quickly you could
Speaker 6: do a little fishing of your own and figure out,
Speaker 6: you know, this is probably nothing. This is something that
Speaker 6: we're probably going to learn in forty eight to seventy
Speaker 6: two hours. It's nothing. It's all a bunch of hocus pocus.
Speaker 6: But in this situation, it felt different because of the
Speaker 6: source that it came from to me, and so I
Speaker 6: knew that there was something here. I had no clue
Speaker 6: what it was. But then before I could even get home,
Speaker 6: my phone was my phone was blowing up with texts
Speaker 6: from people that listened to the show, from my co host,
Speaker 6: the Captain on True Crime Garage, and from people that
Speaker 6: I have met that I considered to be colleagues throughout
Speaker 6: the true crime podcasting community over the years. So I
Speaker 6: knew that this was different, This information was going to
Speaker 6: be different. And so that was the announcement of an arrest,
Speaker 6: and that was August of twenty twenty two, and now
Speaker 6: we sit here in May of twenty twenty three, and
Speaker 6: we still have a bail hearing that's going to take
Speaker 6: place in June, and we have a trial that will
Speaker 6: take place at some point, but we're still people that
Speaker 6: have followed this case for six years now. They're looking
Speaker 6: to have a lot of their questions answered and hopefully
Speaker 6: get to that point when it goes to trial, and
Speaker 6: hopefully they've got the right guy. I talk a lot
Speaker 6: about Richard Allen, who was the person that they arrested
Speaker 6: toward the end of the book, and I talk a
Speaker 6: lot about what they do and don't have, and what
Speaker 6: they may have and what they might not have on
Speaker 6: this guy. But we should see. I'm hopeful that we're
Speaker 6: going to see a conclusion soon. And part of the
Speaker 6: reason why I wrote the book too, I want to
Speaker 6: make sure that before we wrap up today, Dan, that
Speaker 6: I do say that, you know, over the years, there's
Speaker 6: been a lot of weird, bizarre and unflattering, disrespectful things
Speaker 6: said about the families of these two girls that were
Speaker 6: taken away and really upset me. Over the years, these
Speaker 6: families have experienced something that hopefully none of us should
Speaker 6: ever experience. This is about the worst tragedy that you
Speaker 6: can think of. And in fact, I usually say that
Speaker 6: once character is best judged at a time of tragedy,
Speaker 6: and there is no greater tragedy than what we're talking
Speaker 6: about in the del Fi Murra's case. And these families
Speaker 6: handled themselves with courage and with the level of grace
Speaker 6: that I don't think most of us possess. So I
Speaker 6: was very angered to see people talk disrespectfully about the
Speaker 6: families over the years. And part of the reason why
Speaker 6: I wrote the book was to have a very direct
Speaker 6: and definitive timeline of how this case kind of played
Speaker 6: out in the public eye. And again a lot of
Speaker 6: my thoughts and feelings about the case as we were
Speaker 6: all all kind of experiencing it as the information came
Speaker 6: out over the course of over five years, and then
Speaker 6: we finally get an arrest, and it could be seven
Speaker 6: years or so before we see a conclusion as far
Speaker 6: as the courts are concerned.
Speaker 5: One interesting aspect you said in a search warrant, there
Speaker 5: was some interesting that things found because there was a
Speaker 5: shell that was found, a calibers shell that was found
Speaker 5: at the crime scene. And in that search of Richard Allen,
Speaker 5: they found a Spence shell and the gun that was
Speaker 5: connected to it, didn't they.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So that he does some things that are and
Speaker 6: it made some statements to law enforcement that will make
Speaker 6: things rather difficult for his defense team. One, he puts
Speaker 6: himself at the crime scene on the day in question.
Speaker 6: He puts himself at the crime scene right around the
Speaker 6: time in question. You know, we backtracked to what we
Speaker 6: said earlier between two and five pm. So he's there.
Speaker 6: He's dressed like Bridge Guy, by his own admission, and
Speaker 6: he looks like Bridge guy. I say that after having
Speaker 6: said that, I don't think it's that great of a picture.
Speaker 6: But I think most of us would agree he doesn't
Speaker 6: look unlike Bridge Guy is probably more fair to say.
Speaker 6: And then a big problem that Richard Allen has. And
Speaker 6: he has maintained his innocence and he is innocent until
Speaker 6: proven guilty in the court of law. But you know,
Speaker 6: he said that that round so it's a live round,
Speaker 6: that it would have been racked through his gun and
Speaker 6: ejected out the side of his gun, the six hour gun.
Speaker 6: And they say that scientifically they can prove that the
Speaker 6: markings made when that bullet was ejected from his gun,
Speaker 6: they can prove that it came from his gun. And
Speaker 6: the statement that he gave to law enforcement was one
Speaker 6: he's never lent that gun to anybody, never let anybody
Speaker 6: borrow that gun. And two he's never been to the
Speaker 6: exact location where the bodies were later found. Yea, and
Speaker 6: we know that what I believe that there's probably a
Speaker 6: lot more. But Dan, what we've been told is the
Speaker 6: key piece of evidence is that bullet that was found
Speaker 6: roughly about two feet away from one of the victim.
Speaker 6: And in fact, it's the way that it's reported and
Speaker 6: even stated in some legal documents is that the bullet
Speaker 6: was found between the two victims. So that bullet and
Speaker 6: where they found it, and yeah, it creates a big
Speaker 6: problem for Richard Allen in this case.
Speaker 5: In your acknowledgments, you talk about that writing this true
Speaker 5: crime book you mentioned that already has always been a
Speaker 5: dream of yours, but you also acknowledge your brother, the Captain,
Speaker 5: and your audience and your appreciation of what the true
Speaker 5: crime Garage audience and the whole process has aided in
Speaker 5: this dream of writing your first true crime book.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, my first love, my first passion is
Speaker 6: True Crime Garage, the podcast that we do. You know,
Speaker 6: it's crazy to think that we've been doing it. Later
Speaker 6: this year will be eight years. And Dan, I know
Speaker 6: you've been at it longer than we have, but it's
Speaker 6: been a lot of fun. It's also been a lot
Speaker 6: of work. You know, when we first my brother and I,
Speaker 6: the Captain and I first started doing the show together,
Speaker 6: we were both working other jobs. We were both putting
Speaker 6: in long hours together, and this was something that we
Speaker 6: did in our free time, in our spare hours. It
Speaker 6: was something that we built together and an audience that
Speaker 6: we built together. And the audience is our audience is
Speaker 6: the best.
Speaker 2: I mean we have.
Speaker 6: They've they've helped us so much along the way by
Speaker 6: telling friends and family to check out our show, and
Speaker 6: so we we have the best, most loyalist, and most
Speaker 6: engaging audience.
Speaker 2: So that's not lost on me for a second.
Speaker 6: If Dan had it not been for the show and
Speaker 6: the success of the show, I don't know that I
Speaker 6: would have ever been able to achieve this goal of
Speaker 6: writing this book. And I do want to say for
Speaker 6: those true crime garage listeners that are tuning into True Murder,
Speaker 6: I know that we have a lot of the same audience,
Speaker 6: but I would believe there's some people tuning into true
Speaker 6: murder for the first time from garage loyal garage listeners,
Speaker 6: And I want to point out this is while this
Speaker 6: is the the first time that we are having a
Speaker 6: conversation on Mike, in the first time that I'm on
Speaker 6: True Murder, it's not the first time that our paths
Speaker 6: have crossed.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 6: You've been great to our show too. Throughout the years,
Speaker 6: we covered the Luca Magnotic case and the Sidney Tierhughes case,
Speaker 6: and in both cases I had reached out to you
Speaker 6: and said, Dan, could you give us a quote or
Speaker 6: your thoughts or feelings on this part of the investigation
Speaker 6: or the suspect, And both times she came through no
Speaker 6: problems and offered up a SoundBite. So we really appreciate
Speaker 6: you and the good work that you do over at
Speaker 6: True Murder and the times that you've helped us out
Speaker 6: at the Garage.
Speaker 5: It's been a privilege to be able to interview you,
Speaker 5: and I'm congratulations on the success of True Crime Garage
Speaker 5: and now for the success that's sure to come from
Speaker 5: the Delphi murders, the quest to find the man on
Speaker 5: the Bridge. And thank you so much for once upon
Speaker 5: a time I was told by fans of True Murder
Speaker 5: that you had referred to me as the godfather of
Speaker 5: True crime and again an incredible compliment. So I appreciate
Speaker 5: that so much, and I appreciate all the things you've
Speaker 5: said today. I want to thank you so much, Nick
Speaker 5: Edwards for coming on and talking about the Delphi murders,
Speaker 5: the quest to find the men on the bridge. I
Speaker 5: know people know where to find you, and thank you
Speaker 5: for this interview, and you have a great evening, Nick Edwards,
Speaker 5: thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Dan