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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people were very angry about what you said, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>did you get to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>About course, of course you told me about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you regret having spoken your bed?

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<v Speaker 4>Not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I was speaking the truth.

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<v Speaker 4>Pearl is a Hasidic woman who put my YouTube channel

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<v Speaker 4>on the map. From my first visit with her, a

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<v Speaker 4>tour of her home. Viewers loved her and asked for more,

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<v Speaker 4>and we gave them more. Her fan base grew as

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<v Speaker 4>she shared about how she got engaged with the help

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<v Speaker 4>of matchmakers nearly sixty years ago, how she responded when

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<v Speaker 4>her son left the Ascitic community, about head covering and

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<v Speaker 4>head shaving, and motherhood and faith. Then she surprised me

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<v Speaker 4>by sharing on camera some things that I expected would

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<v Speaker 4>make her very unpopular, that is her views on the

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<v Speaker 4>Holocaust and Israel as an anti Zionist Sometimore woman. But

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<v Speaker 4>Pearl insisted on sharing, and indeed many on YouTube were

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<v Speaker 4>very angry. It's been a year since that conversation. I

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<v Speaker 4>sat down again with Pearl for a different subject now,

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<v Speaker 4>to document the very interesting Hasidic wedding traditions. That's a

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<v Speaker 4>separate video. But before we launched into our conversation about weddings.

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<v Speaker 4>We did a little catch up. I ask her how

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<v Speaker 4>she feels since she alienated so many in her enormous

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<v Speaker 4>fan base.

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<v Speaker 3>Pearl, I'm so happy to be talking to you again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to be seeing you again.

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<v Speaker 3>How have you been since our last discussion?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh don't esk, I became like the most hated person.

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<v Speaker 5>I'll tell you what it is in our world today.

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<v Speaker 5>The idea of reward and punishment.

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<v Speaker 2>Is very very unpopular.

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<v Speaker 5>People are you know, they get their hackles up, especially

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<v Speaker 5>for adults. If you're raising little children, you know you

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<v Speaker 5>do use the idea of reward in bunation, but once

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<v Speaker 5>you're an adult. But the Toida is very much based

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<v Speaker 5>on we were in punishment. As a matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 5>Hashem tells us explicitly in the Toilter, without any holds barred,

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<v Speaker 5>what will happen if we don't keep his mitsress and

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<v Speaker 5>no surprises here. We are told exactly what will happen

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<v Speaker 5>to the Jewish nation if they don't keep the mistress

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<v Speaker 5>of the tide.

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<v Speaker 2>No surprises here.

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<v Speaker 5>As a matter of fact, we always always say in

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<v Speaker 5>Mina twini, because of our sins, we know this.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a very famous refrain it is.

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<v Speaker 5>Because it's the truth. But if you tell this to

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<v Speaker 5>the world at large or even secular people, they get

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<v Speaker 5>so angry about this because you're gonna tell me the

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<v Speaker 5>holocausts because of the Jews. Anti Semitism is because of

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<v Speaker 5>the Jews. You know, they have this interesting picture of

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<v Speaker 5>the God.

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<v Speaker 2>Is all good. He is. But if we are not

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<v Speaker 2>all good, and.

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<v Speaker 5>If we don't listen to them, if we don't follow

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<v Speaker 5>the toyle, Hashem takes himself off the scene.

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<v Speaker 2>He removes his divine presence.

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<v Speaker 5>From the world sometimes, as we saw by the Holocaust.

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<v Speaker 4>Here. I want to pause to add a correction that

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<v Speaker 4>Pearl asked me to make. She says Hashem removes his

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<v Speaker 4>divine presence, but that this statement is problematic because Husham

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<v Speaker 4>never removes his divine presence. The world would cease to

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<v Speaker 4>exist if he did. Rather, he turns his divine presence

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<v Speaker 4>away from us.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called punishment, but it's very unpopular. So I'll let

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<v Speaker 2>us say it.

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<v Speaker 6>Because at the previous conversation we talked about the Holocaust

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<v Speaker 6>being essentially punishment.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that fit to say?

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<v Speaker 6>It?

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't that victim blaming.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe the victim did something.

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<v Speaker 3>Who is the who are the actors in the Holocaust.

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<v Speaker 5>So the Ibish does not want us to rebel the

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<v Speaker 5>one hundred and fifty years leading up to the Holocaust

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<v Speaker 5>with the Masquelen, with the simulation an actual conversion to Christianity.

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<v Speaker 5>That was us not listening to him, not doing what

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<v Speaker 5>he wants us. We are a people who have a mission,

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<v Speaker 5>and we know what our mission is and we can't rebel.

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<v Speaker 5>And if we rebel, and datoyta it says what exactly

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<v Speaker 5>will happen? So who we all have only ourselves to blame?

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<v Speaker 5>And speaking of Zionism, the whole idea of Zionism especially,

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<v Speaker 5>I have to say something about the Palestinian people. Last

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<v Speaker 5>time I go. I think that people are very angry

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<v Speaker 5>at me because I said the Palestinian people.

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<v Speaker 2>Are not part of the equation.

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<v Speaker 5>And what I meant to say with that was that

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<v Speaker 5>even if the land would today be a free land,

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<v Speaker 5>nobody would be living in it would be an absolutely

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<v Speaker 5>unpopulated area. We could not take this for ourselves before

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<v Speaker 5>Micheir comes.

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<v Speaker 3>So what was your.

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<v Speaker 5>I said, they're not part of the equation, but I

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<v Speaker 5>meant to say it was there even if they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 5>be there, it'd been no Palestinian people there. We cannot

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<v Speaker 5>take Israel by force for ourselves and make it our land.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a call.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a rebellion against us, Sham, so you became.

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<v Speaker 6>The most unpopular person because we had this conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's okay.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm repeating it because it's the truth, and we have

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<v Speaker 5>to know our people have to know that anti Semitism

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<v Speaker 5>has more to do with us than the anti Semites.

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<v Speaker 5>Our behavior, especially today because of the wars. The normal

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<v Speaker 5>response from a yid is to feel sorry for another

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<v Speaker 5>yea and to and to and to be very worried

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<v Speaker 5>about what's happening in Israel and to feel for Israel.

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<v Speaker 5>And we do, we do, But Israel is led by

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<v Speaker 5>secular people who have no toyta. There's no hashm by them.

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<v Speaker 5>They don't care about this, and they are the ones

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<v Speaker 5>who are bringing trouble on the all the all the.

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<v Speaker 2>Yidiship people in the world. Anti Senor.

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<v Speaker 5>We thought it was all over when I was growing up,

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<v Speaker 5>there was no antisemitism. We thought it's finished. The world

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<v Speaker 5>now from this Holocaust, that anti Semitism is terrible. All

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<v Speaker 5>of a sudden, wherever you go wherever you people are

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<v Speaker 5>afraid hearing Willysburg.

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<v Speaker 6>How is what you say here so different from blaming

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<v Speaker 6>the victim of let's say domestic violence. An abusive husband

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<v Speaker 6>who abuses his wife, and you say, well, she brought

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<v Speaker 6>it on herself. If she wouldn't have upset him, then

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<v Speaker 6>he wouldn't have abused her.

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<v Speaker 3>How is this so different?

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<v Speaker 6>It's essentially blaming the victim for the actions of a perpetrator.

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<v Speaker 2>No, if she is doing something that she shouldn't be doing,

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<v Speaker 2>she's not the victim.

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<v Speaker 5>If she's doing everything she's supposed to do and she's

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<v Speaker 5>being victimized, then nobody blames her.

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<v Speaker 3>Then blame the husband might blame it.

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<v Speaker 5>Please, the abuser is gonna blame her. Of course he's

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<v Speaker 5>gonna blame her. That doesn't make him not an abuser.

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<v Speaker 5>He's the one that's victimizing her.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't understand this question. I don't understand this blaming

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<v Speaker 2>the victim, who blames the victim.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll give you an example.

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<v Speaker 6>A man might beat his wife, and he might say,

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<v Speaker 6>I beat you because this way you will learn a lesson.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's say, to stop being promiscuous. Another man looked at you.

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<v Speaker 6>Let's say another man looked at you in a way

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<v Speaker 6>that made me uncomfortable.

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<v Speaker 3>You were dressed in appropriately. I beat you.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's blaming the victim.

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<v Speaker 3>He's blaming her, but he's.

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<v Speaker 5>An abuser, so of course he's gonna blame her. He's

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<v Speaker 5>abusing her. Blaming the victim in this case is part

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<v Speaker 5>of the abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 5>You remind me of a story me in Europe and

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<v Speaker 5>the Schtettle, people who lived away from the major cities Yeden,

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<v Speaker 5>who lived away from the major cities. They didn't know.

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<v Speaker 5>The Yiddish guy was very earnest, but they didn't know

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<v Speaker 5>a lot. So it's pisser by decided, and this man

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<v Speaker 5>he does not have to make decided, this darfs man

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<v Speaker 5>you known. So he tells his wife go look by

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<v Speaker 5>the neighbor. What how they're making decided?

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<v Speaker 2>So he sends her up.

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<v Speaker 5>She goes looks in by the neighbor by the window,

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<v Speaker 5>and she comes back. So he tells us, so what

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<v Speaker 5>is he doing? She doesn't answer him.

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<v Speaker 2>You know where this is going.

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<v Speaker 3>He was he was beating her.

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<v Speaker 2>She spoiled my story.

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<v Speaker 3>You asked me I was driving.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess She comes back and she she doesn't answer him.

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<v Speaker 5>So a few times he beats her up, so she

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<v Speaker 5>tells him, if you know, why are you see?

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<v Speaker 3>I see the idea of blaming the victim is.

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<v Speaker 5>Idea get away from this today, of blaming the victim,

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<v Speaker 5>I don't hold from it. Okay, here's if somebody blames

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<v Speaker 5>a legitimate victim, that a RuSHA okay, But the.

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<v Speaker 6>Jews were legitimate victims in the Holocaust, poor babies who

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<v Speaker 6>were killed by the Nazis.

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<v Speaker 2>Are Yeah, there's an answer to that. It's a very

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<v Speaker 2>deep answer.

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<v Speaker 5>But you don't want to go into No, it's hard

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<v Speaker 5>to explain. It's hard to explained that when Hashem removes

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<v Speaker 5>his presence then and besides that, imagine if only the

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<v Speaker 5>religious people would have been saved. You know, there were

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<v Speaker 5>there were the holy Rabbis that were killed in the Holocaust.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine if only.

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<v Speaker 5>If only those people who assimilated, who converted, who rebelled,

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<v Speaker 5>they were the ones who would be the victims of

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<v Speaker 5>the Hell coast. Where would be our free choice, free choice?

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<v Speaker 5>There would be normal free choice in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that for sure this is going to happen.

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<v Speaker 5>And if you've gotta be good, it removes the whole

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<v Speaker 5>the whole thing that Hashem gave up human being to

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<v Speaker 5>choose for themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>You can see people.

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<v Speaker 5>Who are really bad people. Hashem lets them choose bad.

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<v Speaker 5>He even lets them live. He even doesn't punish them necessarily.

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<v Speaker 4>Here again, Pearl asked me to clarify. When she says

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<v Speaker 4>that people make bad choices and God doesn't punish them,

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<v Speaker 4>she means is to say God doesn't punish them in

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<v Speaker 4>this world.

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<v Speaker 5>Because why because a person has a free choice. You

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<v Speaker 5>want to be good, you want to be bad, you

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<v Speaker 5>can choose.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a choice.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, So last time we spoke, you shared some of

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<v Speaker 6>these thoughts about your philosophy in the world, and.

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<v Speaker 2>It's my philosophy, the.

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<v Speaker 6>Titter philosophy essentially leads you to be very anti Zionist.

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<v Speaker 3>We're not gonna further rehashit.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people were very angry about what you said, righty,

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<v Speaker 1>did you get to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>About of course, of course you told me about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you regret having spoken your.

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<v Speaker 2>Not at all.

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<v Speaker 5>I was speaking the truth. I was speaking the implanted

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<v Speaker 5>in all of the sub and the boy on them.

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<v Speaker 5>You see how right he was looking going on Today's

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<v Speaker 5>exactly what he said. He was afraid of their vice

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<v Speaker 5>for tutors of our bringing of Claudius at all. Look

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<v Speaker 5>what's happening today, it's it's mumush a prophecy.

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<v Speaker 3>I have to say, you know, I find it interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>I left the community.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm supposed to be the rebel, but I feel like

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<v Speaker 6>you're the rebel because you're saying things that, even in

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<v Speaker 6>the Sich community, are rebellious.

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<v Speaker 2>Why what am I saying that's rebellious.

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<v Speaker 6>Speaking openly in a way that is critical of Zionism today,

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<v Speaker 6>I think is not trendy even in this world.

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<v Speaker 5>That's the tragedy. That's the tragedy. And you're right about that.

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<v Speaker 5>Today people are very angry at anybody that says a

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<v Speaker 5>word about against Zionism. I the Hashim told us in

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<v Speaker 5>the shulis Shias, we can't do it, We're not supposed to.

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<v Speaker 5>And the Lambum Lambam repeats it, and all that ebbys

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<v Speaker 5>until Zionism came about, repeated this constantly. Even the Baba

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<v Speaker 5>the Shah, he wrote tremendously.

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<v Speaker 2>Against the Zionists. Before the World War, everybody was.

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<v Speaker 5>Against the Designist And when I say everybody, I mean

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<v Speaker 5>all the religious Jews.

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<v Speaker 2>But since the Holocaust, okay, and the.

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<v Speaker 5>Fact that the UN ratified the state of Israel and

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<v Speaker 5>people felt that they deserved it. Now you know, we

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<v Speaker 5>went through a how it possibly should have a country

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<v Speaker 5>of our own. But besides that, aside for them, but

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<v Speaker 5>I'm talking about what Hushem wants from us, and this

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<v Speaker 5>isn't Zionism is an open rebellion against Hashem.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not the victims here, but the purpose.

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<v Speaker 3>I have to say, I can't believe we're having this

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<v Speaker 3>conversation again.

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<v Speaker 2>And I want to go to Okay, go, let's go,

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<v Speaker 2>let's go side myself.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, I just want to ask last question on

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<v Speaker 1>this update on Gl's life.

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<v Speaker 6>Do you personally experience a greater fear of anti Semitism?

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<v Speaker 6>Because I asked you like two years ago and you

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<v Speaker 6>said you feel safe.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't feel anti Semitism.

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<v Speaker 5>I fear the outcome of rebelling against Ushian. Part of

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<v Speaker 5>it is anti Semitism, that's the visible part, because this

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<v Speaker 5>is what the lever was afraid of. And no Jew

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<v Speaker 5>is safe in any part of the world. Well, we

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<v Speaker 5>felt very safe here in America. I thought anti Semitism

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<v Speaker 5>was over, it was finished. So do I have a

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<v Speaker 5>fear tremendous fear,