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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

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with Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of The Federalist and

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David Harsani, senior writer at The Washington Examiner. Just as

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a reminder, if you'd like to email the show, please

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do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. Molly,

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let's talk about auto pens or an autopen this week

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the well. I mean, there's been an investigation ongoing, but

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the New York Times, I think, reported that Joe Biden

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and unsurprisingly was not I mean this was kind of

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buried in the story actually, but that Joe Biden was

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not really aware of all the people that he pardoned,

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the massive number of people. I think it was one thousand,

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five hundred on one day, even though I believe there

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were eight thousand or more gardens overall, and Clemency's that

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he gave in the last days of his presidency. I

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think it's a pretty big story. I think it's a

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giant scandal. I don't think we're going to be able

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to do anything about it. What were your what'd you think?

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Speaker 2: So this might seem like a really weird way to

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get into this, but back during the the hoax, against

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Brett Kavanaugh. There was this piece written by Ronan Farrow

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and Jane Mayer in The New Yorker. And Jane Mayer

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is someone who's just had like her life's goal to

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be to say horrible things about any member of the

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Supreme Court who's not doing what she would like them

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to do. She's written books against Clarence Thomas, and so

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she jumped on the Kavanaugh hoax fully. And their story

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was about I think it was about something that happened

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in their under in his undergrad years, and I think

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I've read that story like thirty times and I still

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have no idea what they're trying to say. He did

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literally no idea. And I'm not a dummy. I know

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how to understand stories I read, but I do not

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understand what Ronan Pharoh and Jane Mayer were saying about

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the story. And that's what I felt when I was

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reading this New York Times story about the autopen I

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actually didn't understand what they were trying to say, but

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it seemed to me like they were trying to say,

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like the way I interpreted the story was actually Joe

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Biden and his team are in massive legal jeopardy. Over

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how they ran the autopen, and they have no evidence

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to support the claims that he was like fully competent

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in ordering the autopens. And so it was this like

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convoluted story in which there were some admissions that occasionally

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they ran the autopen without his permission, like they would say, oh, what,

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we didn't ask for him to sign off after a

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bunch of edits were made to the list of people

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who were being pardoned or whatnot, which seems like a

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pretty huge admission. But again, I wasn't like a I

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wasn't totally sure what they were trying to do other

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than lay down the like it's not under oath or

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anything like this. But sort of like before Joe Biden

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maybe dies, he could be on record saying that he

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authorized some of what he did at the end of

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his term. Does that make.

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Speaker 1: Sense, Yeah, I mean there was a subsequent interview with

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Joe Biden. I believe it was subsequent, and there's actually conflict.

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There's a conflict of what they're saying, and Joe Biden says,

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I don't have the oh yeah, that he made every

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decision on his own. But then there are people on

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record in the New York Times story that say that

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there were broad categories where he simply could not go

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over all the people, even those conflicting things. I mean,

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if there are such broad categories and there's auto pens

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and what's that guy's name is, Zience, Jeff, I think

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sent an email saying that the autopen use was okay approved.

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We don't know if it really was approved. This seems

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like a pretty big scandal to me, and I disagree that.

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I think that he's in any legal jeopardy. Presidents have

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the ability, for instance, to give pardons to classes of

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criminals like J six defendants, for instance, without I just

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don't see how it's such an awesome power given to

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the president in the Constitution. I don't know how it's

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one of the most it's one of the only powers

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that anyone has in government that is not subject to

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sort of the other branches. There's no there's no.

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Speaker 2: Really, I disagree with you there. I don't think that

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this is about pardon. I think this is about whether

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there was a grand criminal consnspiracy to hide a president's

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inability to perform the functions of his office from the

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American people. But I do want to defend the pardon here.

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I think that the political process is fine to handle

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abuse of pardons. I do think there has been some

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abuse of pardons, like I first became aware of it

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under Clinton. I'm sure it predates that, but there is

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a political process. You can impeach someone. And yes, if

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you do them on the way out the door, like

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some of these were done the morning of inauguration, right

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right like the day before, well you can still hold

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a political party accountable for that. And there are sometimes

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abuses in our legal system for which there's no easy remedy,

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and a presidential pardon takes care of some of that.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: I do think also that there's no need for a

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p You know, George W. Bush didn't use the auto

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pen because he was really worried about the legality of it,

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and I think that was prudent on his part. But

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if you're going to talk about broad categories of pardons,

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if you think that some law had like over punishment

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or something for breaking it, and you pardon everybody who

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was convicted under that sentencing guideline or something, that's going

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to be a broad categorical pardon, and it's you know,

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it's okay to have changes to the category or I

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don't know to quite explain what I'm trying to say.

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As you're deciding who fits under that pardon, you might

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have slight changes. And so that wasn't my problem with

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the New York Times story. My problem was that it

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seemed to be hiding that they had done things without approval,

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and they were trying to explain it away. But it

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didn't work for me how they were trying to explain it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I agree, Setting aside the pardon itself being any

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kind of criminal act, the overall conspiracy to hide and

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cover up the president's mental state and run the country

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though you're not elected to do so, it's problematic. I

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don't know what kind of legal jeopardy those people could

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be in, or how you can really prove something like this.

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Maybe you can, that's fine, but I mean, people the

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media got very pedantic about the autopen use. Right, So

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it's not the impersonal So I mean, it's not the

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like you say, it's not the impersonal nature of the autopen.

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That's the real problem here. Other presidents have used it.

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It's the impersonal nature was used to abuse and tran

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and circumvent the proper authority because only the president can

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give consent for a pardon. I think maybe they should

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get rid of the autopen for pardons. I mean, the

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truth is, if they needed to just grab Biden's hand

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and make him sign eight thousand pardons, they would have

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done that too. You know, it's just was you know,

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it's not the auto pen so much as what's happening

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behind the auto pen. So I think that that's important

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to remember. You remember Jake Tapper, and who's the guy

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who wrote that book with him at the New York

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Times anyway.

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Speaker 2: Alex Thompson.

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Speaker 1: So they wrote a book about the cover up right

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without naming any names, incredibly and made a lot of money,

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and everyone was just talking about it openly. But it

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hit me as I was reading about this story that

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the cover up's not over. They're still engaged in the

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cover up, as that New York Times soft pedaling story proves.

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And by the way, that was the most aggressive investigation

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of this, right. The NBC News jumped into action immediately,

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not to investigate this perhaps one of the biggest presidential

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scandals in history, but to tell us that James Comer

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was investigating this, so used a digital signature on his

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PDF documents. Now, isn't that the same, Molly. It's just

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the same exact thing, right, Like anyone who works in

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an office knows you have a PDF. And I assume

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that these congressional offers has send out tons of tons

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of letters. You're gonna have to now sci print the letter,

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sign the letter, scan the letter, send the letter. No

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use a digital signature. It's not the same thing as

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someone doing a constitutionally approved pardon. An autopen is a

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different thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, hold on even that, you know, leaving aside the

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use of an autopen by a president, The problem again

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is that people aren't sure that President Biden had his

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full faculties during his presidency. So to compare that with

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James Comer who goes on TV every single day to

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talk about how he's subpoenaing this person or that person

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and then saying, oh, but he used a digital signature

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for that subpoena, It's just not the same unless you're

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saying that James Comer, who constantly talks about his subpoena

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and his investigation, isn't aware of his subpoenas at his investigation.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, of course, James Comer knows exactly where all

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those letters are going. He's completely in charge of himself.

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By the way, when they interviewed Biden, they didn't ask

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Biden questions. Let's quiz him on some of these pardons

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and sees see what he knows about them in these cases.

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That would be a way to kind of confirm whether

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he was in charge or not, wouldn't it. And no

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one asked him any of those questions when he did

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this interview with The Times. I don't know. I'm pretty

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skeptical we're going to get to the bottom of any

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of this. I mean, a congressional congressional investigation is fine,

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but you're going to need journalists to do their job.

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Speaker 2: Well then I will. Actually, I just want to say

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I didn't really think much of this investigation until the

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New York Times ran that story. I know enough from

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the Russia collusion hooks to know they ran that story

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because they're scared. They're very worried, and I do think

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there are people in legal jeopardy. The other thing that

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was interesting about that story is it said that there

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are a bunch of really well known white shoe law

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firms that are providing pro bono legal help to these

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Democrat elites who may be engaged in this criminal conspiracy

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against the American people. And I find that interesting because

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when Democrats were engaged in just wild lawfair to take

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down the entire Republican Party top to bottom and were

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charging everybody within an inch of their life, a lot

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of the people who were charged could not get competent

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legal help to save themselves. And yet these very fancy pants,

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very connected, highest echelons of power DC folks in the

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Biden administration are getting free legal help from white shoe

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law firms. Like that seems sketchy, as I'll get out.

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And I get that Trump and his administration are a

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threat to the permanent DC establishment that has made so

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much money in so many ways off the American taxpayer,

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you know, through like not just the government but all

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of the government funded entities that are in this town.

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But I was like, that's interesting, free legal help for

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the people who maybe conspired against the American people from

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these top law firms.

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Speaker 1: For me, the pardons in clemency and preemptive and blanket

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partons he gave political allies on his family or already

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the most corrupt pardons in history I think. I mean,

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there's like maybe Mark rich or there's a one person

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here or there where you can say might be as

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corrupt as one of these pardons. But when you take

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it as a whole, I just don't think anyone has

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done anything of this nature. Indeed, I think his pardons

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of all his political allies has created a mortal hazard

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and precedent that is incredibly dangerous. Donald Trump, any president

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can just now we'll go back ten years, pardon everyone

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in his administration. Nixon could have done this right, and

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then no one will be held accountable for the crimes

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while they're in government. I mean, actually corrupt.

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Speaker 2: What bothers me more than anything of all of the pardons.

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For some reason, and I want to remind you, he

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pardoned Liz Cheney for her crimes against the country, But

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it was the pardoning of Anthony Fauci that one, to

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me was the worst. Not his family members who are

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involved in his corrupt family business, but Anthony Fauci, because

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what Anthony Fauci did to the country deserves real accountability.

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And to say to the American people, you're not allowed

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to hold someone accountable for destroying so much, that's just

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oh that's like in public threatening stuff.

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Speaker 1: I agree. I mean that the family stuff's just personal corruption.

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The political stuff is much worse. Even Mark Milly who

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admitted on record that he spoke to Chinese generals and

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would undermine the Commander in chief's orders. I mean, these

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things need to be investigated. And now what incentive do

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any people, anyone, does anyone have to actually tell us,

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tell Congress truth or anyone. I mean, it's just it's terrible.

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Speaker 3: We're at the worst level we've seen in thirty five years.

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The watch Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski.

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Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and

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the economy and how it affects your wile. Americans making

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median income need to spend forty percent of the money

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they make on their monthly mortgage interest rates coming down

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makes the prices just go back up. Prices need to

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come down.

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Speaker 4: Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street,

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it's affecting you financially.

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Speaker 1: Be informed.

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Speaker 4: Check out the watch dot on Wall Street podcast with

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Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcas.

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Speaker 1: As against my better judgment, Molly, I think that we

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have to mention the Epstein. Yeah, it's a big topic,

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even though I am still I am still somewhat skeptical

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that it matters to the average voter as much as

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we think on what's going on with Twitter and a

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lot of the activists class. I think a lot of

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Trump's fans out there aren't plugged into the internet trust

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him in general, and I don't think they're going to

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care one way or the other. For instance, just quickly,

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I saw a poll the other day. It was a

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monthly poll, I forget, one of the better posters, I guess,

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and it showed no movement after the run bombing. You know,

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it basically was flat, not up, not down. I just

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don't think. I think people like success, and if Trump

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is being successful with what he's doing, I don't think

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it's going to bother them very much. But it's not

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to say that there aren't a lot of people who

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seem to care very much about this.

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Speaker 2: And I just before you go into it, I want

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to talk about polls for just one second. Which is

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the top pole recently that was purporting to show that

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never in the history of America has there been like

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a more positive view toward immigration. Yeah, something I don't

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remember what the numbers were, and I was like, I

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don't know who conducted that poll or what they're sampling was,

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and I just know it's not true. You know, I

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have never in my life seen so many people questioning

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mass immigration, particularly mass illegal immigration. You know, in the

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eighties and nineties and oughts and teens, there was a

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lot of just pro immigration sentiment, even as people opposed

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illegal immigration. And to be told that never in the

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history of the country have people been more gung ho

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about mass immigration, I was like, that's just not true,

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or like, you see these even the polling on there

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was no change for Trump before and after the Iran strike.

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I actually think probably a lot of people didn't even

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know about the Iran strike. I know that's weird to hear,

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but I was out in the wild when that happened,

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and nobody was talking about it or even really knowing

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about it. So I'm not shocked if there wouldn't be

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a change. But Poles have routinely shown, for instance, with

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Donald Trump, that he's like underwater with favorability even as

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he keeps getting elected president. And I'm just kind of

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sick of Poles. I don't know how to do that

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digression and go.

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Speaker 1: On, no, no, it's fine. I like to talk about

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it for a minute. So I think polling, I don't

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treat it as any sort of scientific number, for sure,

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but I do like to just get a sense of

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what direction are they going in or whatever. So the

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immigration poll I think was complete BS because the question

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is misleading. Is it illegal immigration? Immigration? You know, if

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you're not making distinctions like that, then I'd actually.

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Speaker 2: Think David, even if you I can see that. But

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I don't think people are more favorable toward legal immigration

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right now than they've ever been in their history. But

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even that question, I think people are like, I don't

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like what's happening to this country, and I kind of

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see mass legal immigration as being a big part of it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I don't know. I know there's a

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lot of that going on in political debates. I think

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that most Americans feel like they have to say they're

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pro immigration because they view it as they are pro

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the idealistic or the ideal of how we're supposed to

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do immigration, assimilation, all of that. It's not always happening.

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That's problematic, I'm sure they admit. So, yeah, I agree

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I don't even you know, I didn't take a deep

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dive in that poll. The favorability number is I sort

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of believe in a sense that, yeah, maybe people don't

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love politicians, but favorability numbers that I've said forever don't

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mean anything. It's a comparison, who do you favor more?

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I think Trump has a group a number that's going

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to stay consistent, and then who are you if you're

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going to put Kamala Harris up against him? It doesn't matter.

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His favorability number could be like twenty and he's still

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going to win the election because no one likes her

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and no one thinks that she knows what she's doing.

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So I don't know that. The favorability polls have always

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seemed ridiculous to me. I know people like to push

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him right all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, okay, sorry, backed it nor favorite topic, Jeff.

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Speaker 1: You know what Epstein's favorability is? Uh, listen. I have

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kind of avoided this in general, like it was on

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my radar slightly. So I took, you know, a deeper

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dive and a lot of this you know stuff that's

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going on. I'm not going to pretend that I know

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what's in a file or not. But I think that

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a lot of the MAGA right, it's making a big

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mistake hitching their wagon onto this conspiracy theory that either

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the US government is being you know, is manipulated by

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this guy, or that there's some big client list that's

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going to have all these name on it of people

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who were pedophiles. There's just no evidence for that sort

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of thing. There's been twenty four I could trials already

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civil and criminal about this. They've looked through a lot.

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We have client lists in the sense that we know

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who was on his planes, we have his black book,

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we have was a witness, who's in jail now, all

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these things. I'm not saying that we know everything, but

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the idea that there's going to be these huge bombshells

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or that he's an intel asset, nothing backs that up. Now. Again,

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could be something in there, but nothing that people are saying,

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at least that Tucker was saying or others are backed

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up by facts. We can go through it or not.

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But I don't know what are you thinking now after

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a week ago?

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, I don't know. I feel like I'm in a

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very annoying place in between the extremes again, which nobody

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likes people who are in the middle. I am so

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sick of the topic. I understand why people aren't satisfied

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with the answers they've been given, and then I'm also

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annoyed with those same people for not understanding that they

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can't get the answers that they seem to think they

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can get. Like a stop asking the government to settle

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things for you. If you believe, and I do, that

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the FBI and dj are corrupt, why would you be

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acting like the release of files from them is going

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to somehow like settle everything. What do they think are

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in these files? Like, yes, there have been multiple investigations

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of this person, and when you're investigating, you gather information.

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Some of that information, in fact, a large portion of

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the information is probably not real, you know what I mean.

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Like you talk to people and they'll be like, oh, yeah,

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I heard this thing, and I heard that thing. You

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don't get to release files that say like I heard

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Nancy Pelosi was taking money from Jeffrey Epstein or I

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heard Donald Trump was taking money. Like, you don't just

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get to release things because someone said it. That is

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completely anathema to our understanding of rule of law. And

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presumption of innocence, right, And then also like confusion about

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what would be in the files. Let's say there is

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a list of phone numbers from his phone. Does that

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mean that every phone number in his phone was involved

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in the trafficking of young women? No, presumably not, you know,

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maybe no one, maybe, maybe all, maybe some portion. How

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do you divvy that up? Like, where do you think

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a list is. I'm just frustrated with people not understanding

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the limits of what is achievable. Now. Do I think

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that the answers about what he was doing, which was

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trafficking quite a few girls, and not just for himself

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but for other people. Do I think there have been

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sufficient answers? Not at all, But I don't know if

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you can expect to get them this side of heaven.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, people want those names so they can go

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out and smear the ones they don't like. The left says, oh,

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Donald Trump was on his plane, Donald Trump knew him.

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The other side says, you know whoever was on that plane?

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And I agree with everything you said. It's really I

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think we spoke about this last week. But you know, investigations,

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you know, they just write down everything everyone tells him.

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Doesn't mean it's true. But all the conspiracy theorists will

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take all those names, cobble together some big conspiracy and

401
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we're going it's not going to help anyone. But we

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said this too last week. I think the administration, where

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many people in it, are at fault for this. They

404
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brought this on themselves. You cannot tell people there's a list,

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as Pam Bondi did, and then say there's no list

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and say you misspoke. You know. I do want to

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stress again that Donald Trump, from what I saw, was

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not a big player in this thing. Before the election,

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he said, yeah, if there's something there, we'll release it,

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which is what he said the other day as well,

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there's something pertinent, will release it. I don't think there's

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any there and there, honestly, But to think that this

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is going to now tear apart, you know, maga is

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something else. I mean, it's just not that important issue.

415
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Now you're telling me, Oh, I get like you don't

416
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care about pedophiles. Yeah, I do. The guy's dead. There

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was an investigation. What do you want? What do you

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want to happen here?

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Speaker 2: I think a there haven't really been twenty something trials

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on it. There have been lawsuits from different women or people, right, Yeah,

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and they said a lot of things. The criminal when

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youre talking about criminal trials there there wasn't even didn't

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he plea out in his Florida situation, there was like

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a deal so he didn't even really.

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Speaker 1: He made a deal in two thousand and eight or nine.

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Speaker 2: So there hasn't been you know, the proper airing of

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But how do you know that.

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Speaker 1: I'm just asking, like everyone always says, well, there's all

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these things, all these things that he did that were

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never prosecuted. Well a lot of that was hearsay too,

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really from one witness for my from what I can

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gather that she could not really back up many of

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the things she said. Now, I think this guy was

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a terrible human being. Obviously, I'm not saying he wasn't terrible,

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but I think people have blown this up into something

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that there's no real evidence that it was. And if

437
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there is evidence for that, I'd like to see it.

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But I mean, it's hard for me to believe that

439
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cash Pattel. All these people in the government and maybe

440
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there's something going on. I don't know, because obviously there

441
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was some riff, right, but all these people are putting

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their reputations on the line in this way to hide

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what Epstein did. That just doesn't add up for me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think a lot of this does go back

445
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to what people call a sweetheart plea deal that he got.

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Like we had a listener write in a note about this,

447
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and her client her thing was just like normal people

448
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don't get treated like Epstein got treated in this. He

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was accused by someone of prostituting her fourteen year old daughter,

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and so they do, like they look into it, and

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it turns out that he's doing this with a lot

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of people, and then he gets a plea deal where

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he's immune from federal prosecutor on the trafficking, even though

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there were allegations that the trafficking involved crossing state lines

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and international boundaries and things like that. And this immunity

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from prosecution also resulted in him basically having like not

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the hardest sentence. I think he was in jail like

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one day a week or something, you know, for thirteen months.

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And so her point, I don't remember what the You'll

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get mad at me that I don't know the details,

461
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and I should know the details if I'm going to

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be talking about it. And I respect and understand that,

463
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but point being cushy deal immune from federal prosecution, why

464
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why would you do that? Why would that wouldn't be

465
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something you or I would get Why did he get it?

466
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And people think that it was because of his ties

467
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to very powerful people in the US and abroad. And

468
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there has always been like a weirdness about how he

469
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was able to avoid accountability for his trafficking of children.

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And you can say, well, he was sentenced, and by

471
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the way, I have said it myself, like, I think

472
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it's weird that everyone gets mad at that sweetheart deal.

473
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It is the only successful prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein we

474
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ever saw you. No like he is hard to prosecute.

475
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,799
He was hard to prosecute, it apparently. And then the

476
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:24,319
other issue is that his own attorneys dispute that he

477
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:27,160
killed himself. I think I told you about the time

478
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,839
that I got all the angry mail because I said

479
00:27:28,839 --> 00:27:32,119
I had seen no evidence that he hadn't killed himself.

480
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,039
But his own attorneys say that they don't buy that

481
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,519
he committed suicide. And so there's that additional air of

482
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,960
like he was killed rather than to have some of

483
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,400
the things come to light. But as you note, it's

484
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,319
very speculative without a lot of substance to back it up.

485
00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:54,759
Speaker 1: Well, the sweetheart deal, this is speculation by me a

486
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:57,720
lot of times very rich people who are powerful people,

487
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,359
And it's no doubt that he knew a lot of

488
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,519
rich and powerful people himself our heart to prosecute because

489
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:06,519
they can get an army of the best lawyers on earth,

490
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,559
and a lot of times the government will plea those

491
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,000
deals out because they fear that they won't get any

492
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,079
guilty plea in the end, which happens in high profile

493
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,799
cases relatively often. Actually, that could have been the reason

494
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,640
for it, and it could have been that he made

495
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,359
calls to people he knew. There's no doubt of it.

496
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,319
I'm certainly not saying you didn't have powerful friends. But

497
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,960
people take that and they go into weird, weird places where,

498
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:35,839
in essence, they seem to believe that this guy had

499
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:38,839
a honey pot, you know, honey trout, whatever it's called,

500
00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:42,079
thing going on where everyone on his phone and everyone

501
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,440
he knew was being blackmailed. And essentially he's running the

502
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:48,119
US government, and a lot of people, you know, in

503
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,240
certain factions of the right, think that another country was

504
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,200
helping him do that, which makes zero sense or there's

505
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,400
zero evidence for I just think you're when you're get

506
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,920
so deep into something, you start convincing yourself it has

507
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,319
to be true because there are unanswered questions. You think

508
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:10,920
that the answer has to be something completely dramatic and conspiratorial,

509
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:13,759
when that is not the case. If we release the files,

510
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:15,039
like you said, do you think that's going to help

511
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:17,319
anyone in this regard. No, they're going to take every

512
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,599
name there and they're going to come up with massive,

513
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,680
bigger conspiracies. There's no ending it. And if they don't

514
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,640
release it, and by the way, if they do really

515
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,559
see and there's nothing there, they're just going to say, oh,

516
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,000
the FBI lies and they're not releasing all them. There's

517
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:34,599
no way you can playcate or modify this faction.

518
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:37,599
Speaker 2: Did you read the Dershwitz piece in the Wall Street Journal? Okay, So,

519
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,119
Alan Dershwitz was a longtime acquaintance and attorney for Jeffrey Epstein.

520
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,200
He himself was falsely accused of engaging in the sex trafficking,

521
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:51,920
and he won his suit against the person who falsely

522
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,079
accused him of that or something like. Somehow there was

523
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:57,519
a settlement where he won the day. He was very

524
00:29:57,759 --> 00:29:59,799
blaciferous about it. He's like, I have had sex with

525
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,920
one person my entire life. It's my wife. I've never

526
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:06,599
done anything, you know. Like, he was very non loyally

527
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:09,440
in his denial of the claims, and he ended up

528
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,880
winning the day. So he goes through all of the

529
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,440
different conspiracy theory angles that people have about Jeffrey Epstein

530
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,920
and kind of dismisses them, like, for instance, that there

531
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,559
were you know, a lot of people think there must

532
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:23,400
have been a black mail operation going on because of

533
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,839
his closeness to powerful people and how he was able

534
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,599
to kind of skirt getting in trouble for it. And

535
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,200
one of the pieces of evidence they have for that

536
00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:35,680
is that there were cameras in his house. Dershowitz says

537
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:38,240
the cameras were actually in the public areas of his

538
00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:41,160
Palm Beach home, and maybe there was one in a bedroom,

539
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,440
but that was because something had been stolen from there

540
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:47,519
or something. I don't know. But he said this other

541
00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:51,640
thing which matches with what I think. So I do

542
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,039
think Jeffrey Epstein killed himself, but or I have no reason,

543
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:57,480
I have no evidence to support that he didn't right,

544
00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,640
And Dershowitz says that too. He says, I believe he

545
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:05,400
killed himself, but I do wonder if he didn't have help.

546
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:08,039
And the and the information he gives for why he

547
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:11,599
thinks he had help was the video, the tampering with

548
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:17,240
the video, evidence of the of the jail, the both

549
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:21,359
guards claiming they fell asleep, the transfer of his cellmate

550
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:25,759
before the suicide, and there was one other thing, but

551
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:30,079
I forget what it is. And so I do think

552
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960
that that maybe this very wealthy man somehow made it

553
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:41,359
so that he could kill himself under favorable circumstances, right

554
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,680
being suspicious when the bureau presents a the Department of

555
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:50,200
Justice says, we saw nothing wrong, and you're.

556
00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:54,039
Speaker 1: Like, well, I want to make this clear. So I

557
00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:55,559
want to make this clear on the record, just so

558
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200
that when people write me emails or attack on Twitter,

559
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,279
I'm I don't think that it's crazy to have suspicions

560
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,920
about certain things here or to want questions answered. In fact,

561
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,119
I would like all those questions answered myself. Did he

562
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,279
kill himself? I don't know. Did they tamper with the

563
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,559
video because there's one minute missing that supposedly always I'd

564
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,319
like answers to that more clarity on what happened that

565
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,640
night in the jail. Also, it is not beyond comprehension

566
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,960
that a very rich person might bribe some people to

567
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,759
get him, you know, to be able to commit suicide

568
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,599
because he doesn't want to be subjected to this prosecution.

569
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,440
He doesn't want to go to jail and all that stuff,

570
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,240
for sure, But it's the other stuff, you know, and

571
00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:37,960
keep bringing him up, you know, I just have such

572
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,079
a disdain for him now. But Tucker Carlson says he

573
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,559
knows that Epstein was a foreign you know, we know

574
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:46,880
what country's talking about intellivision. Well, Dershowitz says that it

575
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,079
is not there's no real evidence for that. So I

576
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:53,880
think people use this case to kind of pedal the

577
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,200
paranoia they have about certain people that bothers me, not

578
00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:01,599
that people have legitimate cure. I have curiosity about what

579
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,880
happened to Epstein, but I think that the most obvious

580
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,839
thing is that he maybe gave someone money so he

581
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,000
could kill himself and not subject himself to this sort

582
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:11,119
of thing. Why didn't he trade in on his intel?

583
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:14,000
You know, if he really had all this blackmail and everyone,

584
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:15,880
why was he even going to be prosecuted. Why was

585
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,319
he in jail? Why didn't Biden really he did?

586
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: Maybe that's how he got the sweetheart prosecution.

587
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: Deal in two thousand and eight.

588
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe I don't know. There was something about

589
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:35,599
the intel angle, Oh, I believe so. Dershowitz mentions this

590
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,799
in his Wall Street Journal piece on Epstein. He says

591
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,400
he would have known if he was working for any

592
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,359
intel agency, which I'm not sure is entirely true. Thing

593
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,359
to say, Like one of the marks of being an

594
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:50,279
intel asset is sometimes you don't tell people that, right

595
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,559
or yeah, I actually just don't think that that's true.

596
00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:57,920
That you would definitely know if he were, you.

597
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Would definitely not know. But it seemed very likely that

598
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,559
if you're in a lot of trouble, or real trouble,

599
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:04,880
and that you could be in jail for a very

600
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,920
long time and you have a lawyer who can't divulge anything,

601
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,039
that you would tell him some of your connections to

602
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:11,119
an intel agency.

603
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,639
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, or maybe he had I don't know. And

604
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,239
then he says he thinks that this rumor got going

605
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,679
because Galaine Maxwell, his partner in crime, her dad was

606
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,000
a massad agent, and I do think that's partly why

607
00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:29,280
people say it. I just wish people would understand that

608
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,800
saying that the dad is a MASSAD agent was a

609
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,280
MASSAD agent, is not the same thing as saying that

610
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,239
he's that Jeffrey Epstein is an asset of a particular

611
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,039
intel agency. Well, first of all, it's also true that

612
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,760
Jeffrey Epstein reportedly, like there is someone who says this

613
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,039
on the record, but who knows because it's hearsay, right,

614
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:54,039
that he told people that he was a CIA asset,

615
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:57,159
and that there were certain things that had substantiated that

616
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,119
there was there was like a weirdness about like things

617
00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:06,559
he could do that seemed like trafficking a weapon or

618
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:08,880
something like that that people wondered how he was able

619
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,639
to do stuff. But again, that is not the same

620
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:14,559
thing as saying we have evidence that he is an

621
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:19,199
intel asset of this country or that country, or this

622
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,800
entity or that entity. Like it's not the craziest thing

623
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,719
to think someone like that who traffics in those circles,

624
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:27,840
who traffics women who you know, like, it's not crazy

625
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,599
you think he might be selling information. But that's not

626
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:33,480
the same thing as saying you have evidence that he's

627
00:35:33,519 --> 00:35:36,719
selling information, and I wish people would go more for evidence.

628
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: Can I go through some of these so? Yes, absolutely,

629
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,719
I would not be surprised if he approached some intel

630
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,880
agency selling something or not. He obviously fashioned himself some

631
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,320
kind of like James Bond type or something, because there

632
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,559
are stories. But this idea that Galaena is if that'

633
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:59,440
say pronouna Maxwell would follow in her dad's footsteps is

634
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:02,400
nonsense because there's zero proof Robert Maxwell was a most

635
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,280
spy to begin with. Everyone keeps repeating like it's a fact.

636
00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:07,159
Speaker 2: Would say that too.

637
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,119
Speaker 1: She said there was credible, some credible evidence, but he's wrong. Sorry.

638
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:16,239
There was one book written by Seymour Hirsch that says

639
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:19,599
that Maxwell was a spy. He was a big British

640
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:23,000
media mogul. I guess that claim came from a guy

641
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:26,960
named Ari Ben Minasha, who was found out to be

642
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,079
a con man who never worked for Mozart. He was

643
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,719
a fire translator for the Ideaf. There is no other

644
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,039
person who's ever said that Maxwell was openly pro Israel,

645
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,199
did all kinds of things for Israel. Leaders showed up

646
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,920
at his funeral. State leaders from Israel. If you have

647
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,760
a big spy, you're not hanging out with him and

648
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:47,239
celebrating him and inviting him to Israel. This is just

649
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,760
not true. But even if that were true, his daughter

650
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,679
was just a party girl. She met Epstein long after

651
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,639
Robert Maxwell was dead. The idea that that makes her

652
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:03,239
a spy or him a spy is ridiculous. And the

653
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,559
Acosta stuff, I don't know his first name. I'm sorry, Alex,

654
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,480
Alex he was, he was the attorney made the deal.

655
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,679
The other day, Megan Kelly said that he's on the

656
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,719
record saying Epstein was an Intel agent, right and told

657
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,760
to get rid of the prosecution. This was from one

658
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,639
Daily Beast story from twenty nineteen. Hearsay third hand hearsay

659
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,320
under oath, I believe Acosta said it wasn't true. Now, listen,

660
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,280
you could be lying, and maybe someone told him that.

661
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:30,800
But even if someone didn't, wait.

662
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:32,559
Speaker 2: You said, under oath, you believe he said it wasn't

663
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:36,519
true because I looked up in exactly what you just said, right,

664
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:38,559
Megan Kelly says he's on the record. So I was like, Okay,

665
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,599
where's he on the record? And I looked it up

666
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:42,760
and as you note, he's not on the record. It's

667
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,079
a third hand hearsay that supposedly he said this to

668
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:48,480
the Trump people. But then I did see also an

669
00:37:48,519 --> 00:37:50,559
interview where he was asked about it. He didn't say

670
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:52,800
it wasn't true, like this was just a c Span interview.

671
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,639
It wasn't under oath. He didn't say it wasn't true.

672
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,079
He just said I would urge people not to believe

673
00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:01,599
everything they hear. And I was like, okay, I don't,

674
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,440
but I wouldn't care a little bit. More like.

675
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,159
Speaker 1: I thought he was in front of Congress doing something.

676
00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:10,880
But maybe right if I'm if I misspoke there, sorry,

677
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,320
but he has never confirmed this. Let's say it. Put

678
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,679
it that way. Certainly, he's not on the record, it's

679
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,000
doing it, saying it, And just because he heard it

680
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,800
from someone doesn't make it true. Wouldn't make it definitively

681
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,840
true anyway. I mean, what I'm saying is this is tenuous.

682
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:29,280
But moreover, the third one just to say is that

683
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:32,880
people note that he had this big relationship with Ahud Barak,

684
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,559
who was a former Prime Minister of Israel. Well, again,

685
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,719
the former prime Minister Israel would not be hanging out

686
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,679
publicly with a super asset deeply embedded in the American government.

687
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,320
That's just crazy. But moreover, Epstein invested in his startup.

688
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,880
He's a Barack was a you know, rich guy who

689
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,639
had some kind of tech startup homeland security stuff, and

690
00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:58,400
he invested and they knew each other. They met in

691
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:02,960
Harvard where Epstein it was a big donor. People think

692
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:06,719
that this is how MOSAT operates, that they're just openly

693
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,800
sending the Prime Minister to hang out with one of

694
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,719
their assets. It's so dumb. It's you know, listen, maybe

695
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,199
I'll be proven wrong, but on the on the from

696
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,159
what we know, this is very dumb. And by the way,

697
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,000
Epstein went to Saudi Arabia all the time. He knew

698
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,400
royalty there. No one ever talks about him being a

699
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,280
Saudi asset. He knew the what's that guy's name, the princes.

700
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: But didn't he do business with Adam Kogi?

701
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,679
Speaker 1: Yeah he did. Well. My point is this that the

702
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,559
guy obviously was involved in a lot of things around

703
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:42,400
the world, and you know, and that sparks these conspiracies,

704
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,840
but there's really no evidence that he was some kind

705
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,199
of spy.

706
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 2: Now, do you want to point out that who himself

707
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:55,440
requested an investigation into Epstein's ties to the former prime minister. Right, Yeah,

708
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:58,519
it's not crazy to be like, oh, these people are connected.

709
00:39:58,599 --> 00:40:01,480
When net Yan who's also it, what's he saying?

710
00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:03,599
Speaker 1: He's saying there's criminality there. I don't think he's saying

711
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,159
Natagnyao would know if Epstein was a part of a

712
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,719
Mosad spy operation, and he would not bring attention to it.

713
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:13,639
Do you think he would?

714
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: I wish people, I wish our intel agencies would have

715
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,360
done a better and invested law enforcement agencies would have

716
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,840
done a better job of handling this top to bottom.

717
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,280
And I think that the Trump administration has really done

718
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,519
a poor job here. I also think that Trump said

719
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:40,519
this thing that was interesting to me, where he was like,

720
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,880
why would you expect you know, the people who were

721
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,719
running the CIA and the FBI during all of this

722
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,960
were like Komey and Brennan and Clapper or whatever, like

723
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,039
why would you expect them to have accurate reporting on this?

724
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,679
And I just want to reiterate that, like, stop expecting

725
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,480
our federal agency to be able to answer all of

726
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:05,599
your problems. In fact, just stop asking or expecting the

727
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,400
government in general to handle all your problems, whether it's

728
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:14,159
the courts or the Supreme court or agencies, like, yes,

729
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,920
they do have some responsibility here, although a lot of

730
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,440
what Epstein was accused of was more of the local variety,

731
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:23,239
like even the Acosta thing. People get mad at me

732
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,800
for defending him, you know, on this stuff, because and

733
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,519
I do understand the critiques of his of the plea

734
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:34,159
deal he agreed to, but he had said at the

735
00:41:34,199 --> 00:41:37,760
time that he stepped in in part because the local

736
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,800
authorities were about to just basically brush it under the carpet,

737
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:46,400
and so if he, as a US attorney kind of

738
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,360
stepped in to have some accountability, like that's better than

739
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,280
none that he would get at the local level. Having

740
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,679
said that, still, rape tends to be a local crime

741
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,679
that you prosecute as a local crime, not a federal crime.

742
00:41:59,039 --> 00:41:59,599
Speaker 1: And so.

743
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: If you're going to get mad at government agencies, don't

744
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,159
just get mad at the federal government, but also the

745
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:07,719
state and local authorities too.

746
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, but none of the people are going to write

747
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:15,199
us angry emails about this or care about that anymore.

748
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,280
And they're just so obsessed with this thing that it,

749
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,079
I don't know, it's just weird to me how conspiratorial

750
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:24,960
everyone has become out there, And just think they're captured

751
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:27,559
by drama that isn't real.

752
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: It is real that this man trafficked young women. That's

753
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,519
totally real.

754
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: For sure, but that's not the mean I mean. I'll

755
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,880
give you an example. Massy House member Massey sent out

756
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,400
a tweet that said, we need to know, you know,

757
00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:49,920
all the corruption and crimes that we're here. That's why

758
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,639
we need to know the files. I meaning he knows

759
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,039
already that these files are going to prove things about

760
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:58,639
powerful people and stuff. It's not no one's like, we

761
00:42:58,679 --> 00:43:00,880
need to see this because you know, we need to

762
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,320
know if there's more. They know there's more. Everyone knows

763
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,599
there's something big there when they're talking about it. They

764
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:11,280
just need it proven so their preconceived notions will be upheld.

765
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,719
And I think that's a problem when you approach something

766
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,000
that way when there might not be anything more and

767
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:16,559
more there.

768
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned this point about again the costa deal,

769
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,159
that understanding that this guy had a lot of money

770
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:25,440
and could fight whatever charges were there. I actually think

771
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,920
that's the real issue here. People are really sick of

772
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:33,760
how there are that were not you know, ruled by law,

773
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,039
but by men that if you are in a certain

774
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:38,440
class of people you can get away with murder, and

775
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,960
if you're in a different class, you can get totally squashed.

776
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,039
And so this Epstein thing is a proxy for that

777
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,079
very real frustration that people have. But it's also a

778
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:54,280
way to avoid fixing the problem. You know, like if

779
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,559
you're focused on this and not on different standards of

780
00:43:57,599 --> 00:43:59,719
rule of law or how like, if the federal government

781
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,719
comes out after you, as a normal person, your life

782
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,119
is over. But if you're wealthy, then you might get

783
00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:09,320
out of it. You know, there are ways, there are

784
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,159
many ways to handle that. In addition to just yelling

785
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:17,159
about Epstein, there's always instead of yelling about Epstein, I.

786
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,159
Speaker 1: Get that anger. I mean, rich people, wealthy, powerful people

787
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,760
get away with it a lot more than a normal

788
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,519
person just want to whine about something. Right now, did

789
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:33,000
you watch the USA conference stuff?

790
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,679
Speaker 2: I don't watch the whole conference, but I did watch

791
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:42,559
the debate between Josh Hammer and Dave Smith, moderated by

792
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:43,320
Charlie Kirk.

793
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:50,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. The way that there's this the way the TPUSA,

794
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,039
for instance, just allows anti u Isral people, but in

795
00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:59,239
my view, anti Semitic people to participate. It is gross. Now.

796
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,079
I think Josh, from what I saw, decimated Dave Smith,

797
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:05,800
but I thought that Douglas Murray decimated Dave Smith, who

798
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,679
knows he's an ignoramus on this topic. My problem is

799
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:13,440
that we lift these people up into perch them into

800
00:45:13,559 --> 00:45:16,639
positions of prominence when they don't deserve it. They don't

801
00:45:16,679 --> 00:45:19,400
know anything about the topic. All they do is they

802
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,719
have these credulous numbskulls who follow them, who like to

803
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,840
hear that the blood libels they spread, and they put

804
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,840
them up there. So I think it's problematic. Also, Tucker

805
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,280
gave this ridiculous speech. I keep talking about him because

806
00:45:33,519 --> 00:45:35,519
I guess he's the leader of that faction. In a way,

807
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,280
today or Thursday is going to have on that Hitler

808
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,599
apologist to explain the Epstein files. It's completely normal, right anyway,

809
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,679
So yeah, Josh did a great job because Josh knows

810
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,679
what he's talking about, and Dave Smith did a terrible

811
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,639
job because he doesn't know what he's talking about. It's

812
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:54,119
all emotional stuff. But anyway, it's just really off putting

813
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:57,159
that these people are lifted by the right and it's

814
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,119
completely alienating to me, at least, not that anyone can.

815
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, I disagree. I thought it was a really

816
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,800
well done discussion, like, really really well done. I was

817
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,280
impressed with how Charlie Kirk handled it and even that

818
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,719
it was discussed. I am much more open to debate

819
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,360
on these things than you are. Like We've discussed this

820
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,239
for years about whether you should engage with people you

821
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,039
know of the Dave Smith variety or not, and I've

822
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,360
even gone back and forth on it a bit myself.

823
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,920
But I think this was a really useful, worthwhile discussion,

824
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,079
and I actually liked I liked it all. I thought

825
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:45,800
it was much better than the awful Joe Rogan one

826
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,920
between Dave Smith and what was that guy's name again?

827
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: His name's Douglas Murray. Oh.

828
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 2: I agreed with Douglas Murray, and I still just felt

829
00:46:54,519 --> 00:46:57,320
like he had a very like punishable thing about him.

830
00:46:57,679 --> 00:47:00,159
Speaker 1: Let me ask you something. If you debated someone and

831
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:02,199
you were coming on a show what Joe Rogan has

832
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,159
on all kinds of Candice Owen whoever is on that

833
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,039
show alone and debates him. But you show up and

834
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:10,559
all of a sudden there's another person in ignoring Himus

835
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:13,440
who's there too, So you're not having an interview anymore.

836
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:17,559
You have to debate two people. Does that seem normal

837
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,679
to you. Why doesn't Joe Rogan have an antie when

838
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:23,960
he has on that fake historian hitler apologist. Why doesn't

839
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,199
he have a second person on there to grill him.

840
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:29,119
Speaker 2: You just asked me a question, and I'd like to

841
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:31,440
answer it, which is, I'm quite used to this. I

842
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:37,920
am frequently debating three or four people on TV and

843
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,079
not even expecting to have a debate when I show up,

844
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:43,760
and then finding out that I'm like outnumbered quite a bit.

845
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,000
And I think you just can handle it without being

846
00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:50,880
smug and condescending. And I just said I tended to

847
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,639
agree with that guy, Douglas Murray on his discussion of

848
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,119
Israel versus Hamas, but I just didn't think he handled

849
00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:00,960
it well, whereas I thought Josh Hammer did handle it

850
00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:04,440
very well, including just by treating it like he'd said

851
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,599
at one point something you just said, which is like,

852
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:09,400
I don't think this guy should even be here. But

853
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,199
he kind of got over that and just focused more

854
00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:15,639
on his arguments, and I thought that was good and

855
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:22,880
much more persuasive to a younger crowd than like, much

856
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,639
more persuasive and compelling to a younger crowd than just

857
00:48:26,679 --> 00:48:29,159
being like you have to you have to accept what

858
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:31,119
I'm saying, and I'm going to be smug about it

859
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:36,440
like it was. Also, I thought Charlie Kirk did a

860
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,440
great job of asking tough questions of each person and

861
00:48:41,159 --> 00:48:46,960
eliciting interesting responses and even like some concessions, not concessions,

862
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,760
but like Dave Smith was, who's uh. I did not

863
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,440
realize he's Jewish himself, but clearly very what do you mean?

864
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:57,280
So he says, I.

865
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: Don't know that he's Jewish or not. And also it's

866
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,679
irrelevant being Jewish. There are self hating Jews all over

867
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:05,559
the place. There were coppos in concentration cams, and so,

868
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,880
I mean, it's always bringing it up like it matters.

869
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,840
I mean, we're split brending blood, libels against people and

870
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,440
lying and you don't know what you're talking about. And

871
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,599
then you say, oh, I'm Jewish. I don't know anything

872
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:18,239
about him. It doesn't even matter anyway. I'm sorry, And

873
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,360
that's just me being angry.

874
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,559
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've like one of the things that

875
00:49:21,679 --> 00:49:24,840
Charlie Kirk asked him to do was to condemn October seventh,

876
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,480
and he did, which definitely did not come through in

877
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,400
the Joe Rogan interview, you know, and so it was

878
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,119
digging a little deeper and for a very short debate

879
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,079
or discussion, and I thought it was great, and I thought, again,

880
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:39,880
Josh Hammer was much more effective.

881
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:43,639
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question? Yeah, So why is

882
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,840
Dave Smith there? Like what credential does he have? Or

883
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,159
what like has he done or what book has he written?

884
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,280
Or what has he done to deserve to be up

885
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,480
on that stage other than having a lot of followers?

886
00:49:56,639 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if I even like, what are you?

887
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: My point is his potentials over He doesn't have any credentials,

888
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,039
and he doesn't never written anything important, He's never said

889
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:10,280
anything new. He has a lot of followers. He's up

890
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,960
there because he says disgusting things that people anti Semites

891
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,440
mostly like, so he's up there. So if there's a

892
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:19,480
Holocaust denier who has two million followers, should he be

893
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:21,639
up there? I mean, what gets you on the stage

894
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:22,559
at TPUSA.

895
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:25,679
Speaker 2: I think this gets to why I thought Josh did

896
00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:29,639
a better job than Doug Murray, Like you can wish

897
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:37,320
this warranted debate about American relationship with Israel or Israel's

898
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,639
handling of Hamas, but it is. And so if you're

899
00:50:40,679 --> 00:50:45,159
gonna if you're gonna, like if you can either acknowledge

900
00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:47,440
that there are a lot of people, particularly young people,

901
00:50:47,519 --> 00:50:52,079
who don't support Israel's approach with Hamas post October seventh,

902
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,440
or like, to me, it's just better to recognize that

903
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,920
there are some problems there, recognize that unfortunately the problem

904
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:05,320
side has had quite a bit of growth in the

905
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,320
last couple of years, and engage it head on, or

906
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,480
just sort of wish that they weren't there and say,

907
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:12,599
these people don't have a right to talk about it,

908
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:14,440
or they don't have the experience to talk about it,

909
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:18,639
or the credentials. Like Dave Smith has talked about it,

910
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,599
he's willing to do a debate. There probably aren't that

911
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:23,639
many people who are willing to do a debate this

912
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,719
way on either side, to be honest, and so it's

913
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:33,280
edifying to the people gathered to hear what the sides

914
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,880
are and make their own decision.

915
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: I think, well, there are plenty of people out there

916
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,719
who are critics of Israel, who know about this issue deeply,

917
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,400
who would debate it. I'm sure you don't have to.

918
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,480
But so there's no real answer other than Dave Smith

919
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:51,079
has a lot of followers.

920
00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to think, like if I don't organize events,

921
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,599
but if I were organizing an event for young people,

922
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,719
I would probably pick someone like him because he's a

923
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,639
representative of his side that can communicate with young people.

924
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,719
And they were both well chosen for that. I mean,

925
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,079
they did get a little fiery and hot with each other,

926
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:13,840
but Kirk kind of kept it, kept it civil and

927
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,000
worked very hard to keep it civil and also bring

928
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:21,880
out where the underlying disagreements were, and I thought it

929
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,360
was very worthwhile, Like I hope. I think there's a

930
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:33,280
problem with young people on the right of not just

931
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,400
opposition to Israel, which is a totally legitimate thing to

932
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,880
feel or believe, but actual like growing anti Semitism, and

933
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,159
I think it has to be addressed head on. And

934
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:48,760
Kirk did a good job of that too, calling on

935
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,320
Dave Smith to repudiate what some of his fans have

936
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,920
done in terms of jew hatred and stuff like that,

937
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,480
and he did and I thought that was good too.

938
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: I think it's completely empty. And also he plays foot

939
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,679
seat Kirk with these people quite often.

940
00:53:04,679 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: Do you actually watch the debate, and I think it

941
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,880
would about Kirk.

942
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: No, I he's been I've heard him in other situations

943
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,159
defending Israel incredibly passionate way, in an incredibly smart way.

944
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:21,840
There's also a point is yeah and Antisemet. I don't

945
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,280
think he's an anti semit at all, but it bothers

946
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,679
me that Listen, there are a lot of other issues.

947
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,039
Young people believe in socialism, they love socialism and that too.

948
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:34,039
Sure did they did they do a debate on did

949
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:37,360
they bring in someone who's pro gender affirming care? I

950
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,639
mean Dave Smith? And you keep saying young people are

951
00:53:39,639 --> 00:53:42,000
anti Israel. I don't know that that's true. Do you

952
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:45,400
have any real polling to show that young conservatives have

953
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,000
turned against Israel just because you've met a few that said,

954
00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:48,719
I didn't say that.

955
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,519
Speaker 2: I said there's a growing problem with anti semitism there.

956
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,800
I do think that's a problem, and I do think

957
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,719
it needs to be addressed. And so I just thought

958
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,519
it was great that Kirk did them.

959
00:54:00,679 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: We need more gatekeeping. And people get so mad when

960
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,559
you say that, but there's gatekeeping all the time. You

961
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:08,719
don't invite people to a federalist conference who have or

962
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:15,679
crazy right or have anti Semitic positions. This idea that

963
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,840
we have to like engage every person who has a

964
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:24,159
Twitter following, no matter how uneducated they are on a topic,

965
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,960
just because they're saying things that drive anti semits to

966
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,679
their sites. I think it's a big problem. I don't

967
00:54:29,679 --> 00:54:31,039
know how to I don't know how to fix it.

968
00:54:32,159 --> 00:54:34,079
In fact, I think the very bad things are coming

969
00:54:34,119 --> 00:54:34,679
down the pike.

970
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 2: But anyway, it's just you're negative today.

971
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: You called me an old man before we got on here,

972
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:47,800
right because I am pretty old. Well, I couldn't go

973
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:48,639
pretty cranky.

974
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,079
Speaker 2: I couldn't get my computer to work. So I'll see

975
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:55,039
your old man and raise you with boom.

976
00:54:56,119 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: Are we done?

977
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

978
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about culture. Okay, I don't have much.

979
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:04,199
Did you have anything?

980
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 2: I've seen absolutely nothing. I did find a new old

981
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,039
band that I like. It's so weird. I don't like

982
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:19,760
American pop music, but I love French pop music. I

983
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,400
don't know if it's pop. I don't even know what

984
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,360
this genre is, but it's kid Franciscoli.

985
00:55:26,559 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 1: Never heard of it.

986
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,079
Speaker 2: And it's I think a French duo, but maybe it's

987
00:55:32,119 --> 00:55:36,480
just one guy. And there's this song called Moon and

988
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:40,199
it went like and I just love it. And then

989
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,519
there was another song that he did. I think it's

990
00:55:42,519 --> 00:55:45,639
called blow Up, and it has a beautiful film that

991
00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:50,519
goes with it, like old school video, but a great film.

992
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:54,639
So I've been listening to that while I write.

993
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,519
Speaker 1: No, that's it, that's it.

994
00:55:56,559 --> 00:55:57,519
Speaker 2: Sorry, we'll look it up.

995
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: No, it's okay. I don't have much. I while I

996
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,079
was on vacation the other week, I watched I rewatched

997
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,159
as I was waiting for people to do things. I

998
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,440
started rewatching the Godfather movies, so I'm like, you know what,

999
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,239
I should watch the third one. I haven't seen it

1000
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,400
since it came out, and there's a recut version by

1001
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,960
Francis Ford Coppola called Coda. I think it's called Godfather Coda,

1002
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,000
and I watched it. Andy Garcia is great in it.

1003
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:29,480
I think you know, Sunny's bastard child. But I have

1004
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:32,159
to say, and I'd like to be contrarian on these

1005
00:56:32,199 --> 00:56:34,199
sorts of things, but it is not a good movie.

1006
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:40,000
The Sofia Coppola acting is so off putting that is

1007
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,800
almost unwatchable. The scenes with her, I didn't know if

1008
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,760
people know or you know, and you may that win

1009
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,559
on a. Ryder was initially in that role, but she

1010
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:49,480
had some kind of nervous breakdown and they had to

1011
00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:52,360
bring in Francis Ford Coppola's daughter, who I think is

1012
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,800
actually a very good director, but as an actress she

1013
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,480
needs she has a lot to be desired. The story

1014
00:56:57,559 --> 00:57:00,320
is very dumb about the Vatican and everything, and it's

1015
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,079
just it's not a good movie, sadly, even the recut version.

1016
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: I have a slightly different take on that, which I

1017
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,360
haven't seen in a while. But Godfather one and Godfather

1018
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,039
two are so brilliant that Godfather three is a little

1019
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:17,920
bit unfairly criticized. I'm not going to say it's a

1020
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,079
great movie, but I think that it's just so much

1021
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:25,719
worse than one and two that it gets more hate

1022
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:27,559
than it deserves.

1023
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: I think that's probably fair. The expectations, obviously would be

1024
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,000
incredibly high for a movie like that, but and maybe

1025
00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:36,039
it's because I've read about it so much, but it

1026
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:38,639
feels like someone making a movie for money, you know

1027
00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:40,679
what I mean. It feels like we don't really have

1028
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:45,440
a story here. It ended so perfectly in the second one.

1029
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:47,920
I did want to quickly do I've been reading a

1030
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,320
lot of books, so I quickly want to go through

1031
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,880
what I'm reading. I'm reading a novel called The Maniac

1032
00:57:53,159 --> 00:58:01,119
by Benjamin Labatut. It's called it's about basically theoretic physicists

1033
00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:03,760
going crazy. It's a novel. Now I'm not saying it's

1034
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,559
for everyone, but I am loving this book. I wish

1035
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:09,559
I could credit the person on Twitter who recommended it,

1036
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:12,280
but I can't. I read the book When the Going Was.

1037
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,079
Speaker 2: You can't because you don't remember their name, or I.

1038
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: Don't remember yeah, yeah, no, no no, I don't remember

1039
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,519
who did it. I wish I could give them credit.

1040
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,760
When the When the Going Was Good by Graydon Carter,

1041
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,639
who was like the editor of Vanity Fair I believe

1042
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:28,880
for many years and Spy Magazine, which I liked when

1043
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,800
I was young, And if you ever read it, he's

1044
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,119
just like name dropping left and right. It's very funny.

1045
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:36,679
I don't know if you're into that sort of thing.

1046
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:39,320
I like to read books about by you know, newspaper

1047
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:45,239
editors or you know magazine editors. And then The Genius Myth,

1048
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:48,599
A Curious History, We Have a Dangerous Idea by Helen Lewis.

1049
00:58:48,639 --> 00:58:50,440
I think she's a writer for the Atlantic, and it

1050
00:58:50,679 --> 00:58:52,840
just kind of I haven't read I've just started this one.

1051
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:58,079
It's kind of interesting. Debunking the idea of genius. I

1052
00:58:58,119 --> 00:59:00,880
felt like I needed to give more material the culture section,

1053
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:04,639
so I went into my phones library. These are the

1054
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:05,800
books I'm reading right now.

1055
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: So since you mentioned books, I can mention a couple

1056
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:18,760
of books I've been reading by Alexander Bickell. I can't

1057
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,480
remember his first name, but Bickell is the last name.

1058
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,840
And he was this Gale law prof constitutional law prof

1059
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,639
who was very influential about the Supreme Court. So the

1060
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:34,559
books are the Supreme Court and the Idea of Progress,

1061
00:59:34,719 --> 00:59:37,719
and the other one is the least Dangerous Branch. He's

1062
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:39,920
written more than that, but that's what I've been reading,

1063
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,920
and it kind of goes into what the role of

1064
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:50,639
the court is and whether it should be more whether

1065
00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:58,159
it should be restrained against so like whether when Congress

1066
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:01,599
passes law what they should be doing, they rule it

1067
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:04,880
unconstitutional or what they shouldn't be doing. It's something that

1068
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,199
was interesting that used to be considered a progressive idea

1069
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,360
when FDR was pushing through all of his stuff about

1070
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,519
the New Deal and the Supreme Court was ruling it unconstitutional.

1071
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:19,519
It was this idea that you should just basically let

1072
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:22,280
Congress do what it wants to do and be much

1073
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,199
more limited in how you rule against it. And then

1074
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,920
once the progressives got complete control of the court and

1075
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,480
they got frustrated with the pace of change in what

1076
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:39,079
was happening through legislatures or at the ballot box, then progressives,

1077
01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:42,599
most of them not all, started pushing for this activist court,

1078
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:48,119
and so the bikel type ideas became associated more with

1079
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,719
the conservatives. Anyway, it's been.

1080
01:00:51,559 --> 01:00:58,159
Speaker 1: Interesting, interesting, sounds like some light reading, like cultural reading

1081
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:00,159
of it.

1082
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:01,679
Speaker 2: It's also fiction.

1083
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:09,119
Speaker 1: Just kidding, well, that's great. If anyone has any suggestions

1084
01:01:09,159 --> 01:01:11,199
for us as far as bookscope, they can email us

1085
01:01:11,239 --> 01:01:15,360
at radio at the Federalist dot com until next week though,

1086
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,559
and the Lovers of Freedom of a picchus for the

1087
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:19,119
FRAY and it went like