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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Mark Soldisbury from Langley, Canada and I

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play at No.

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Speaker 2: Few Golf and Country Club.

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Speaker 1: This is Golf Smart at number nine hundred and ninety one.

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Speaker 2: If you want to work on your golf swing, there's

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a video called swing Beats Ernie Els. It's on YouTube.

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Go watch it. Don't think about it, don't put it

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into words. Just watch Ernie El's swing and it shows

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I'm hitting like a two iron, a five iron and

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an eight iron. It's the same swing every time. And

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you know, Erniel says that beautiful smooth swing. Most guys,

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if they swung like Michelle Wie, would play better. But

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they're trying to hit it like Rory McElroy. I'm going

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to hit it really far. Just keep it in play,

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get it straight. If you hit it, hit the ball

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like Michelle Wie, you'd be a lot better player than

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you are. I talk about the mental game more, you know,

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don't be an idiot. You know, why do you get

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up and say I'm going to put a little extra

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on this one and you know what happens? She hit

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in the water, hit a two inches. What is it

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our minds that make us do that. I'm going to

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hear this one really hard. I'm going to do the

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old Russian hammer thrower swing here and it never works out.

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Speaker 1: Hit your second shot first. A snarky book about playing

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golf by humorist Jim Flynn. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories,

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tips and insights from great golf minds to help you

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lower your score and raise your golf IQ.

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Speaker 2: Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jim, Well, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you on. This is a fun

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little book and it's definitely tongue in cheek. I mean,

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you even call yourself snarky at one point in the

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descriptions of this, and I would have to concur its

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snarky humor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm kind of a wise guy, and that's

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just who I am. I wrote this book. I'm I'm

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a novelist and I've written I'm working on a novel

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right now. I wrote this as a lark to take

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a break from writing a novel. I was really sort

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of stuck in it, out of your dry through something

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like that. I was just dead. I had no place

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to go, so I said, I'm a golfer, I'm a hacker, golfer,

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and I always kidd it i'd write a book called

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hit your second shot first, because I always say I'm

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always saying that, And so I wrote this book as

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a lark. And it's a lot shorter than a novel,

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a lot easier to write the novel. It's been my

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by far bestseller.

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Speaker 1: Wow, congratulations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been out for five years. It still sells

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every day somewhere in the world where they speak, although

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it's sold in Japan. I'm assuming to English speakers in

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Japan because not translated, but still sells every day. It's

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for people who have a sense of humor about golf.

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As you know, there are people who take golf very

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very seriously and some kind of religious right and all

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that stuff, and they don't like this book. It's it's

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it's not for them, but it's if you have a

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little bit of sense of humor about golf, I think

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you play better, absolutely, and and so it's written for

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people like that who want to have I want to

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have fun yep.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's this audience definitely runs the gamut from the

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very serious golfer who wouldn't find this funny, to the

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guys who love Daddy humor and snarky humor that would

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just I found myself going really and then less than

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a two minutes later, i'd be I'd be laughing out loud.

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So it's like you really did go all the way

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on extremes on both ends. But I did find it

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to be fun and quick. I did the audiobook, and

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the reader is clearly a pro.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great.

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Speaker 1: He was doing and so I did the whole book

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in a day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the audiobook. If somebody is an audiobook person, this

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is a great book to listen on the way of

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the golf course. And you might even play better after

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you listen to it.

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Speaker 1: As long as you keep your sense of humor. Yeah,

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tell me about some of the other books you've written.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've written. My first book was called Be Sincere

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Even When You Don't Mean It, which is not a novel.

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It's a sort of a humorous memoir. And this fellow

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who narrates hit your second shot first also narrated that

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Gary Williams' name is. And it's kind of crazy about

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this guy who does all these wonderful things. He's an

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astronaut and he plays in the Master's tournament and he's

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a football player, and it's kind of like, it's not

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meant to be believable. Well, it's meant to be funny,

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and it is funny. And it's my second it's still

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my second best seller. It still sells. It's sold quite

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a few copies in Australia. Don't ask me why I

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never I was on one podcast there a million years ago.

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They must like my sense of humor. England, they don't

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like my sense of humor. I can't give my books

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away in England. So and then I started writing novels.

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I was fortunate enough to pick up some fans on

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my first book, and among them are people i'd call

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real writers. People make a living out of writing. People

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have written New York Times bestsellers, and a couple of

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them have become my sort of spiritual mentors and unofficial mentors.

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And they said, hey, you're funny. You should keep writing.

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Not that many people. There's a lot of decent writers

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out there's not many people good at being funny. So

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carry that sense of humor forward, right, novel? So I

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wrote a novel. I was in the investment business for

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a million years, and so I made up this guy

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and he uncovers a Ponzi scheme in the first novel,

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and and now I'm on the fourth novel, so wow,

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same guy.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah yeah. I was one of the famous lines

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about actors saying dying is easy comedy as hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yeah, I know. I'm just I'm naturally funny.

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My wife says, you know, if you if the fire

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alarms going off at three o'clock in the morning and

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we get up, you're funny. It's just who I am.

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Speaker 1: So how long have you been married? Forty eight years

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and she still thinks you're funny? Yes, if that's that's

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that is a testimony.

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Speaker 2: Well that's a requirement. If she didn't appreciate as such

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a humor, we wouldn't have lasted forty eight years.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I'm coming up on forty five. And occasionally

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she'll go, you make me laugh. Yeah, But most of

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the time it's like, don't don't that's not funny.

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Speaker 2: Put on the toilet seat, stupid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, no, that's not even a conversation. And

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I can go on and on about that conversation all

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by myself. Tell me about your golf game.

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Speaker 2: I'm an eighteen handicapper. I've had more surgeries than maybe

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Oakland Raiders are combined. So I don't hit the ball

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very far. Even though I'm a pretty big guy. I

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have a pretty good short game, and when I'm not stupid,

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I can get a good score.

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Speaker 1: And you're playing partners, appreciate your humor.

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Speaker 2: I don't talk much on the course. I don't. I'm

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not one of these haha, hey, hey, guys on the course.

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It's not like I'm super serious. I don't like talking

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on the course. I like to play. Some of the

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guys I play with don't know why I write books.

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I'm in this league a bunch of guys who play

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first thing in the morning with nine holes, a bunch

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of old guys. And you get you put your card

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in and the starter shuffles them. So you don't play

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the same guys. You don't arrange your match. You play

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with different guys. And there's maybe fifty guys in a group.

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All of the guys don't know I write books. They

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don't know that I'm, you know, hilarious, wonderful guy. They just,

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you know, either like me. You don't like me as

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a golfer, but you would not know that stuff from

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playing golf with me.

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Speaker 1: Uh, huh okay, So you're incognito when you're playing golf

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as far as being a writer.

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Speaker 2: Although although I have to tell you that the one

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thing I'm that someone who might not like me playing

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golf is if you're really slow. And I don't mean

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the guys who can't walk because they're old. I mean

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the guy the five practice wing guys, and the guys

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who stalk around their putt. You know, the guys I

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play with, h I have a scientific theory. The longer

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they take the putt, the less likely they are going

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to make it okay. And the best guys I play

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with are the fast, are the fastest putters. And I

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don't mean there's some guys who that's their form of choking.

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They get up and hit it really fast because they

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can't take the pressure. I'm talking about guys who just

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stand up, look at the pot, hit it. They're the

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best players.

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Speaker 1: And how's your putting medium? And do you take time

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to line up here? But tell me walk me through

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your pre shot routine.

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Speaker 2: When you put putting, line it up. I try to

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line it up while somebody else is putting. And so

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i'm i'm I try to be cognizant of the people

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I'm playing with and the people are playing behind me.

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So I tried to be ready when it's my turn.

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Not some guys act like, oh, I have to hit

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the ball, I'll go over and get my putter. Now

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it's no, you have to be ready. I'm ready. I

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get up. Maybe it takes me five seconds, and I

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try to just hit the right speed and sometimes it

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goes in. You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't measure out your putt? No? No, do

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you keep a line on the ball and you know no.

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That's I'm describing myself by the.

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Speaker 2: Way I do not put the do not do the

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line thing. I just leave it there unless I have

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to market for you know, get out of somebody's way.

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You don't move it.

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Speaker 1: The ball's got mud on it.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, if it has mud on it, I clean it.

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If it's just there, I just I just put it.

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So I'm pretty fast putter, and I'm not great, but

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I'm not terrible.

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Speaker 1: You get thirty six putts in or you're thirty nine

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or thirty two putts around, do you know.

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Speaker 2: I don't keep track, but it's going to be more

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than thirty six because I three putt once in a while.

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Speaker 1: Once in a while, yeah, three times around.

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Speaker 2: Usually I play nine holes, So I'm a nine hole guy.

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Because of all my injuries, I feel, okay, you want

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to know my score. If I play nine, I shoot

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forty two, and if I play eighteen, I shoot fifty two.

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On the back nine because my injuries start kicking it

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and I can take four hundred tile in all, it

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doesn't help. So I'm much happier playing nine, and I'm

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much better. I won't I won't delve on my medical history,

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but I've had a few things that would stop it.

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Just they just kick in on the back nine about

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the thirteenth hole, I can't really play anymore. So therefore

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I might three putt on nine holes. I might three

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punt once or twice.

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Speaker 1: So there's no instructional advice going on in your game

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or in your book. This is not for somebody who

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wants instruction.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that if you want to work on

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your golf swing, it's not the right book for you.

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In fact, I have a woman that I hire.

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Speaker 1: I was going to go there.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not a golf swing thing. Except the one

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thing I say is, if you want to work on

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your golf swing. There's a video called swing Beats Ernie El's.

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It's on YouTube. Go watch it. Don't think about it,

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don't put it into words. Just watch Ernie L's swing

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and it shows him hitting like a two iron, a

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five iron, and an eight iron. It's the same swing

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every time, same swing. And you know, Erniel says that

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beautiful smooth swing. The other thing, you know, look at

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Michelle Wie. Most guys if they if they swung like

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Michelle Wie, would play better. But they they're trying to

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hit it like Rory mckel right on. I'm going to

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hit it really far. You know, just keep it in play,

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get it straight. If you could hit the ball like

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Michelle Wie, you'd be a lot better player than you are.

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That's the only thing I talk about the golf swing.

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I talk about the mental game more. You know, don't

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be an idiot, which I don't always follow that policy.

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You know, why do you get up and say I'm

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going to put a little extra on this one, and

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you know what happens? You hid in the water, hit

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it two inches? What? What? What? What is it in

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our minds that make us do that, I'm going to

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hit this one really hard. I'm going to do the

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old Russian hammer thrower swing here and it never works

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out right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a we have a saying here on

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Golf Smarter that I learned from a listener years and

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years ago, and I keep repeating it, and as I'm

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setting this up, I'm sure that there's listeners going, Okay,

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I can sing along with this one. And it's never

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follow a bad shot with a stupid shot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, there you go. Well, and then

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then let's go into it. Hit your second shot first.

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I start the book exactly what you know. You're just

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playing for fun with a bunch of guys and you

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hit a terrible t shot and they say, oh, come on,

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think another one. Why do you hit a good one?

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What what happened between those two things? And I say,

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you know, people people think, well, I'm a bad person,

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I'm being punished. Well that's not it, and or I'm stupid.

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I'm stupid and that's it. Well, you didn't get smart

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in the five seconds between the first and second shot,

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and you didn't get to be a better person. What

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why did you hit a better shot? It's because you're

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not trying to do the same thing. You're trying to

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put in play because you don't want to hit two

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onto the driving range, right, you want to hit Okay,

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you just hit a terrible shot. People are standing there

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waiting for you to play. What do you do? You

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turn it down a few notches and say, I got

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to put in play. So that's a that's an instructional thing.

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And the other thing is the mental game. And I

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talk about that the famous Brooks Kopka interview, which is

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real and I think you can find that on YouTube.

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Amanda balionis, this is back before the big schism, and

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brooks Kopka was playing on PGA Tour and it was

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a regular tournament, wasn't a major and the bubbly Amanda balionis,

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is now, Brooks, what were you thinking on this shot?

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An eighteenth holl You had to go over the water,

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You needed to get down in three to tie and

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have a playoff. What were you thinking as you hit

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this difficult shot which ended up three feet from the

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hole You made the pott won the tournament? So what

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were you thinking? And Brooks says nothing, That's his whole answer.

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Nothing like well a man laughed. They both laughed. But

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I said, if we could all think nothing, we'd be

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a lot better. And then I go into comparing. Okay,

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that's what Brooks was thinking. Here's what you'd be thinking.

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Is my shoelace too tight? Where to put my car keys?

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Should I open up the club face? It's downhill? Lie?

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Why am I stupid? Why didn't I hit it over

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to the right where it wasn't a downhill? Lie? You

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know all these millions of things that the average Kui

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goes through, You're much better off thinking nothing. That's hard

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to do.

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Speaker 1: Well. I invite you to listen to the Golf Smarter

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podcasts regularly because we talked to a lot of mental coaches.

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Even recently, we had on the Mother of Mindfulness. I mean,

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this is a Harvard professor who's been given the title

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of the Mother of Mindfulness. Okay, and we talk a

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lot about keeping your mind empty, yep, and not think

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about swing mechanics and what your swing thoughts are, but

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think of something external, somewhere else on the course, in

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your target line. But when you think about the things

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that you have to do with your body, it's only

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going to hurt you.

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Speaker 2: I will watch it. I will watch But now Ben Hogan,

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who gets a lot of ink in this book, for

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ruining a lot of golfers. But his swing, his swing

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thought was Henny Bogan. He brought back Henny came forward Bogan.

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That's all he thought about. He adopted that when he

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was a scrambled up version of his name. He started

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doing that when he was twelve years old, and that

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was his swing thought through his whole whole life. Now,

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Ben Hogan, nobody would argue he's not one of the

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greatest golfers of all time. Maybe had the nicest swing

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of all time. But I do blame him for ruin

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it for a lot of amateur golfers who think they

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can swing like Ben Hogan. By the way, the number

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one selling golf book is still five Lessons by Ben

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Hogan every years the most. If you take me, I

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could read that book a million times. I can't swing

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like Ben Hogan. I cannot possibly move my body like

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Ben Hogan tells me to. He spends twenty pages. There's

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five lessons. First lessons on the grip, twenty pages. If

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you go, if you don't know how to play golf,

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and you go and they hand your club, how long

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does it take thirty seconds for an overlapping grip. And

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here's how you hold the club. Ben's twenty twenty pages

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on that, by the way, five lessons. Here's how many

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words he writes about the most important stroke for amateur golfer,

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which is putting. That's the you look at how many strokes,

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which which one do you hit the most? Putting? Ben

335
00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:07,759
writes zero words on putting. He didn't like putting he has.

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The older he got, the more he started choking all

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he got the yips and couldn't putt. Still had a

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great swing. But as you know, Ben's book is the

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number one seller. And you take a guy my age

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and give him Ben. In fact, I'm in this group

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and every two weeks we have what we call the

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Chicken Tournament. I started it off and we would play.

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The winner got a rubber chicken which he got to

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keep for two weeks, and it was fun. We'd throw

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it around and it's grown and now we have chicken

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headcovers for the low net and low gross. And sometimes

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there's eight guys who play it. Sometimes there's fifty guys

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who play, depending on the weather and so on. But

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so the people have contributed different prizes and I contributed

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another prize, which I have Hogan's book Five Lessons, and

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I bought it on purpose, the most ratty copy I

352
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,119
could find on eBay for thirty five cents, has got

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coffee stains on it and stuff. We give it to

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a guy to try to jink them for the next turn.

355
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We give it to the guy who wins tried to

356
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jinks him for the next tournament, because if you read it,

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it's going to ruin your game. I play with the

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two best guys in my group. They have similar handicaps.

359
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One of them has a really nice classics swing. It's

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not Hogan, but it's nice classics swing. The other guy

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has a you know, public course started playing on he

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was twenty five guy swing. You would not write a book,

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You would not take a video of this guy, and

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you know, try to sell it as an instructional video

365
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since he's a good golfer.

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Speaker 1: So he his name is Jim Furick.

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Speaker 2: Well, this guy makes Jim Furich look like Ben Hogan,

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but he stands too far away from the A and

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that's all these things you're the classical golfer wouldn't do.

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But Jim Furick's a good example for a pro. He

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doesn't have a classical swing. Just do your own swing,

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get get a decent swing, and then don't think about

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it anymore. Practice your short game and try to think

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about nothing.

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Speaker 1: It Actually, one of the parts that made me laugh

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out loud was when you talked about the cult of

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Hogan yep, And I thought that was just such a

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great way to put it. And you're right, it's a

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it's a fascinating book. It's very technical, but it's not

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an easy read to go go ahead and read it

381
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and then just apply it, you know, because you're like

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you need help with that stuff. But it's still the

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best selling book every well. Yet I think it's because

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it's short.

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Speaker 2: I had to change. I had to change. I had

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to get a new primary care for position because mine retired.

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And I got this guy who's like as old as

388
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my oldest son, who's too handicap, And so we talked

389
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about golf and I told him about my book and

390
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,039
how I make fun of Ben Hogan, And all of

391
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a sudden, the temperature went down about twenty degrees in

392
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the room, and he says, I'll read that book night.

393
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I said, how old are when you started playing three?

394
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If you're three, you can do it. If you're forty

395
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five and you're starting, you're not gonna. Don't read Ben

396
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Hogan's book Go to the Pro and I talk about

397
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this in the book. People think I'm just going to

398
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buy the new driver that's going to do it, and

399
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I talk about the guy. This is true. I played

400
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with the guy in the league that was, you know,

401
00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:53,319
pretty serious league. Nobody ever gave you, but you couldn't

402
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:58,400
have to put him in. And this guy was a clown,

403
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,599
and he bought a new driver every year, and he

404
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,039
would always say, I can hit this thirty yards farther

405
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than my old driver, and I don't know what. We

406
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didn't like each other. So about the fifty year i'm playing,

407
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this guy's still driving two hundred yards. He was driving

408
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,720
two hundred yards, still driving two hundred yards. They said,

409
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you know, by my math, you should be up to

410
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,400
three fifty by now, because every driver you buy hit

411
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thirty yards farther, and you know, it's one hundred and

412
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fifty yards of five years. He didn't think that was

413
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that great of a comment.

414
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Speaker 1: No, I bet he didn't want to play with you.

415
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Speaker 2: No, it was one of these things where you were

416
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mad kind.

417
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Speaker 1: Of stuck with each other.

418
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Speaker 2: We never would have played together on purpose. He was

419
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also one of these guys you must have played with

420
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guys who can't tell you hit a good shot. You know,

421
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the guy you make a fifty foot putt and he goes,

422
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,079
is that a two? Yeah, doesn't say anything. He's one

423
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of those guys.

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Speaker 1: That's not fun.

425
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Speaker 2: But anyhow, what what I say is, you know, instead

426
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,359
of buying that new driver, which is gonna cost three

427
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,920
hundred bucks or six hundred bucks or one thousand bucks,

428
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,400
whatever it is, if you take that money and spend

429
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it on lessons. I'm not encouraging people. Don't take it seriously.

430
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Take you out. Take it seriously, but not too seriously.

431
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,480
But if you get a decent prose, not trying to

432
00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:24,440
turn into Ben Hogan, working with what you got. Let's

433
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,039
say you're going to buy a five hundred dollars right,

434
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:29,440
If you spend five hundred dollars on lessons, that's a

435
00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:32,759
much better investment than going out buying a new driver

436
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:33,599
that you can't hit.

437
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Speaker 1: You probably have a greater chance of hitting the fairways

438
00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:40,519
with those lessons than you do with just a new driver. Yeah,

439
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,519
and if you're gonna spend that money. Get a putter.

440
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,119
I mean right, a driver you use maybe fourteen times

441
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,119
around maybe, and a putter you they give you thirty

442
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,599
six shots with your putters. Yeah huh on the scorecard

443
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,039
before you even start. So it's like, do the math

444
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,000
folks come on.

445
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get it. You get a putter you can

446
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720
put with. I agree, Yeah, you get a putter you

447
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,200
can put with?

448
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, go lab All right. So there were a couple

449
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,920
of things in here I wanted to bring up that

450
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,440
I was like, is that funny? I don't. I'm not

451
00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:19,839
the cattle pride conversation. You keep bringing up cattle prods.

452
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,480
Why do you do that?

453
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have a fund, I used to

454
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have horses, so I'm familiar with the technology. But and

455
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I'll give you for your listener, like the context. What

456
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,319
I say is, I'm talking about slow play. And there's

457
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,240
a guy who just got the range finder and he

458
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,799
hits his t shot and he's standing right next to

459
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:43,279
the one hundred and fifty yard marker, and what does

460
00:25:43,319 --> 00:25:45,680
he do. He has to get out his range finder

461
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:52,440
and and holds her back because he doesn't know how

462
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,880
to use it yet, and takes all his time. And

463
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,640
then delusional guy thinks he can hit his eight iron

464
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,240
hunter fifty because in nineteen eighty seven he hit one

465
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,279
one hundred and fifty. He really should be yeah once,

466
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,440
so therefore you can hit that the rest of your life.

467
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,000
And he's never done it again. We all know this guy, right,

468
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,559
And so he swings too hard, he hits the ball

469
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,519
six feet. Then what does he do? He gets the

470
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:22,039
rangefinder out again again. Yeah, he says, well it's one

471
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,519
hundred and fifty two, you know. And then then I say,

472
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you're allowed to use your cattle prod on that guy.

473
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,599
So some people think that's funny. In fact, one guy,

474
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,640
the one of the gifts we have for our chicken

475
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,759
tournament is a guy made up a pretend cattle prod.

476
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,200
Actually it's range finder. Cattle prode is actually pretty clever

477
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:48,759
the way guy made this. So one guy gets a

478
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,839
And the other thing that some people find objectionable is

479
00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:58,519
I say that under certain circumstances it's okay to beat

480
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,720
somebody to death with a utter. You know, the guy

481
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:07,319
who you tee up your ball and before you can

482
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:10,920
take a swing, it falls off the tee. And what

483
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:15,160
there's always a guy who says it's one that's one. Yeah,

484
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,240
like it's something clever that you haven't heard four hundred

485
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:23,359
billion times. And I say, you give the guy a

486
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,119
warning and then if he does it again, you're allowed

487
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,440
to beat him to death or your potter. Now that's

488
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:32,640
not as I said that humor isn't for everybody. But

489
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000
some people think it's funny.

490
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: Right, right, sick humor. I know, I'm like going like that.

491
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, some people think it's objectionable, and so I say,

492
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:46,200
this book is a very However, this book has been

493
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,200
a best seller on Amazon, so some people think it's funny,

494
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,279
and it does sell every day somewhere in the world.

495
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,880
Somebody buys this book amazing, amazing, and it makes them break.

496
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: If I have to go, if I have to go.

497
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,960
Defense of the pulling out the rain finder, it says

498
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,240
it's one hundred and fifty to the center of the

499
00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:09,960
green and it's a red flag or or it's a

500
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,400
blue flag. You know, it's not in the se the

501
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,440
flag's not in the centers. You want to just kind

502
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,920
of have a better sense.

503
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:18,599
Speaker 2: And it's like, we probably should take play together.

504
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: To literally.

505
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: You know what I would tell you hit the middle

506
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,519
of the green. Aim for the middle of the green.

507
00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:30,079
If you're that week and you can hit it in

508
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,880
the back of the green, no offense, I bet you're

509
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,799
not that good. Most guys. Ninety percent of the guys

510
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,240
aim for the middle of the green. If it's a

511
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,200
red flag, aim for the middle of the green. If

512
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,279
it's a blue flag, game for the middle of green.

513
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,359
Somewhere on the right, aim for the middle of the green.

514
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's actually when I get in.

515
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,759
Speaker 2: Trouble, is when I get clever, say I'm a really

516
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:55,160
good wedge player, or somewhere on the right, what do

517
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,519
I do put in the trap aim for the middle

518
00:28:57,559 --> 00:28:58,000
of the green.

519
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,759
Speaker 1: There was I don't remember who told me. There was

520
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,279
somebody on the show once, but they said that as

521
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:11,400
an experiment, of course, removed the flags from the course,

522
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:16,440
and more people were hitting getting greens in regulation because

523
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,119
they were just going for the center of the green.

524
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: What do you know, right, they weren't.

525
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,799
Speaker 1: They weren't going pin seeking, and that they were. They

526
00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,720
that their statistics showed that if you don't have the

527
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,359
flag there, you're going to more likely to get to

528
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,599
the to the on the green in regulation than if

529
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,839
you have to you know, try to pinpoint your shot

530
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:37,640
to a place that.

531
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not everybody's cup of tea. I played for

532
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:46,359
the guy who wasn't that good, and he had a

533
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,279
fifteen foot putt downhill bender. There's no way he was

534
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,519
going to make it. And he walked around for about

535
00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:56,359
four minutes looking at it, and I said, you better

536
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,960
make this expletive deleted putt. He says why. I said,

537
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,039
because we've been waiting four minutes and you're not going

538
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,400
to make this putt. And he missed by but he

539
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,519
hit it off the green because it was downhill and

540
00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:13,200
if you missed, this thing was going off. He didn't

541
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:19,880
think that that was great. So so don't take four

542
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,680
minutes lining up your putt. If you're Jack Nicholas, okay,

543
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:27,640
but if you're just a regular guy, get up, get

544
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,799
a line on, hit the ball.

545
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: The thing that attracted me to the book hit your

546
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,279
second shot first, by Jim Flynn. It was we have

547
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:45,400
a we have a phrase that we use regularly, which is,

548
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:48,680
after you've hit your second shot and it's inbounds and

549
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:51,559
you do a decent shot, we call that being a

550
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:57,400
second swing. All American's kind of thing. I thought you

551
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,559
would find fun.

552
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:01,799
Speaker 2: Well, there you go, there you go. I mean this

553
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,720
my philosophy isn't for people who are club champions and

554
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:12,920
playing for the regional championship and want to be professional golfers.

555
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:16,359
It's for the average golfer. As we talked about, go

556
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,319
for the middle of the green, go for the fairway.

557
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,880
Try to hit the ball in a fairway instead of

558
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,119
trying to hit it thirty yards farther behind a tree. Right.

559
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: And there are short chapters. You don't have to read

560
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,640
them in order. You can go any direction you want.

561
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,119
So this is a great little book to keep in

562
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,960
the guest bathroom, right, so your guests can pick them like, oh,

563
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,839
what's this? They read one chapter.

564
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:41,599
Speaker 2: It's funny you say that, because I've had people tell

565
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,880
me that it's in the guest bathroom. I'm not offended.

566
00:31:45,319 --> 00:31:48,920
I'm not going for Dostoevsky here. It's meant to be

567
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,680
a funny little thing you can pick up and read

568
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:57,839
one chapter and in an order. And as I said,

569
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,480
it has been an Amazon best Sorry it's Ben Hogan's book.

570
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,240
It's not going to be. It's not even what I

571
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,000
set out to do when I started writing. It just

572
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:09,720
has worked out for me. I've also written another golf book,

573
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Ten Greatest Golfers of All Time, which is a little

574
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480
more serious, and I talked about it, and it has

575
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:23,119
that required research, a lot of research, and it also

576
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,359
requires kicking some people off that that. I got some

577
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,160
pushback on why isn't Phil Mickelson on there? Wise in't

578
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,160
Jeans Arason, Peter Thompson. You know, there's there's a lot

579
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,079
of fans of how did.

580
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: You determine who were the ten best golfers? Well, you've

581
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,559
got to at the what year did you write it?

582
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:47,599
Speaker 2: Last year? Now? Two years ago? Yeah? So pretty recently

583
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,759
Tiger and Tiger and Jack are number one and two

584
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,559
or they're buying for number one. That's easy. So you

585
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,920
got yes, So you got those two guys that start

586
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,799
with Arnie's got to be on the list, Hogan's got

587
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:05,519
to be on the list.

588
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: Is it based on tour wins? Is it based on majors?

589
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:13,440
Or is it based on popularity?

590
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:14,319
Speaker 2: All the above?

591
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: Cultural?

592
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Bobby Jones. Sure, you know, there's certain names

593
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,839
you can't exclude from the list. But there also I

594
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,960
also it was a great learning experience. For example, Walter Hagen,

595
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,759
I didn't know anything about him, he made number ten

596
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,200
because he really invented. He was the first real golf pro.

597
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:37,119
I don't know if you know a lot about Walter Haighan.

598
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:41,640
He was a larger than life character. Yeah, he walked

599
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,440
into the He walked into the clubhouse in the bridge

600
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,039
open and said, okay, which one are you guys going

601
00:33:49,119 --> 00:33:49,680
to be second?

602
00:33:51,839 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: Ouch?

603
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was him, and he had you know,

604
00:33:55,839 --> 00:34:00,000
silk shirt and the whole deal. You know. I mentioned,

605
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,079
you know, Larry Bird in the first three point shooting

606
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,039
contest when they started that at the NBA All Star Game,

607
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000
he walked in the locker room and said, Okay, which

608
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,079
one are you guys going to be second? And Larry

609
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,519
didn't know that he was saying the same thing Walter

610
00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:19,840
Haigen said in nineteen twenty two or something. And the

611
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,119
key for both Larry and Walter Hagen is you gotta win.

612
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,960
You can't say that not win. So that was a

613
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,840
fun book to write, and it did have I did

614
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,760
get some pushback on it. It didn't sell as much

615
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,079
as the funny. It is funny, and I can't write

616
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:39,559
a book and not be funny at all. But and

617
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:42,039
I take some shots at people in it, and some

618
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:43,119
people didn't like that.

619
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a great thing if people are

620
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,239
giving you pushback on who's on your list, because that

621
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,199
means they're reading it.

622
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, that's great.

623
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:53,679
Speaker 1: Sure, come on tell me more.

624
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:59,079
Speaker 2: Let's hear that's also that's also we're done the ten grade.

625
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,840
This book is you say, is snarky and it's not

626
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,159
for everybody ten grass golfers. You could pretty much give anybody.

627
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,400
It's not going to offend anybody, and it and it does.

628
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,679
You're going to learn some things about Arnold Palmer you

629
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,239
didn't know because I did a lot of research, even

630
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,400
Jack Nicklace, even Tiger You're gonna learn some things you

631
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,880
didn't know about them.

632
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write that book?

633
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: That took a while. Although research is a lot easier

634
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:31,159
now with chat and AHI and all that stuff, and

635
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:33,079
it sends you to other places. I don't know if

636
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,719
you do use AI at all. I do, Yeah, it's

637
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,440
it's Research for a non fiction book is a lot

638
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,119
easier than it used to be. Imagine what are you

639
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:46,960
going to do to go to the library. Yeah, so,

640
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,039
and I really enjoyed that and it was a learning experience.

641
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,679
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well have you ever read the book The Match

642
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,039
by Mark Frost. Yes, I love that book. Ye. I

643
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:02,559
read it probably eighteen nineteen years ago and it's still

644
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,039
on my list of some of the one of the

645
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,079
best golf books I've ever read.

646
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: It reminds me. I don't want to get too deep

647
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,840
down the tunnel here, but I think he might have

648
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,880
based that on a book about a bicycle race.

649
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:17,559
Speaker 1: Really.

650
00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:21,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing after I read that book, there's a

651
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,840
there's a book about a one day bicycle race in Europe,

652
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,039
and there's an awful lot of parallels between those two books.

653
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,039
And I'm guessing I bet you read that book.

654
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: Interesting, that wouldn't be surprised. Huh. So another thing you

655
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,440
talk about in the book a lot that I wanted

656
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,159
to why why does this keep coming up? Is why

657
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:46,400
you might be delusional as a golfer. Well you explain

658
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:47,480
that to me, please.

659
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,039
Speaker 2: Well, I think all golfers are delusional, including me. Yeah.

660
00:36:51,519 --> 00:36:54,360
As we're talking about Okay, I'm going on playing good.

661
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,119
There's a par five. I know I cannot reach it

662
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:01,800
into There's no chance I can. Even if the fairy's

663
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,599
frozen and it's windy, I'm not going to reach it.

664
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:08,400
I can't do it yet. I stand on the first

665
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,639
of standing on the tee and I try to hit

666
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:14,400
it too far. Why I know it's going to take

667
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,280
me three shots. I just want to put in the fairway.

668
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,000
What what makes me do this? And I think I'm

669
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:22,440
less delusional than a lot of guys. You know the

670
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:27,760
guy who in nineteen eighty seven he hit a seven

671
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,880
iron one hundred and sixty three yards. Therefore I can

672
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,239
always hit a seven iron hundred and sixty three yards.

673
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,920
What makes guys like do that? And they do it?

674
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,360
And I'm talking about doctors and you know, smart people,

675
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:46,199
but they have this thing about golf. They well, I

676
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,880
think one of the problems is you see guys on

677
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,840
TV and you think you can do what they do

678
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,280
and it doesn't look that hard, right, isn't It isn't

679
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,679
like tackling a guy in Kansas City. You know, you're

680
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,360
not tackling Travis Kelsey here. You're just hitting a golf ball.

681
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,599
People think, oh, I can do that, and they can't.

682
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,880
You can't be them. But I think all golfers are delusional.

683
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:19,000
You go out next time, and don't don't delude delude yourself.

684
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,920
I do it at least once a round. Oh I

685
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920
can hit that. No, I can't just lay up. They're

686
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,880
time to lay up. How many people don't ever lay up?

687
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Never follow a bad chat with a stupid chot.

688
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

689
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,119
Speaker 1: And you know it's interesting because your handicap is based

690
00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:42,920
on your potential. It's not the average of your last

691
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480
twenty rounds. It's your eight best scores of your last

692
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:49,079
twenty rounds. So if they're going to tell you that

693
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:53,519
I'm gonna mark you as you know, your your gambling

694
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:57,119
prowess based on your potential, then why can't I play

695
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,800
based on my potential? Because I did hit my seven

696
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,719
iron one hundred and seventy yards once, yeah, fifteen years ago.

697
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:07,199
Speaker 2: And how many guys you know who do that? And

698
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,000
you see him every time every round they they have

699
00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:14,519
an impossible shot. They got to go through two traps,

700
00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:17,159
the greens, you know, the pins on the side of

701
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:19,639
the green. There's no chance they should just lay up

702
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,440
in front of the green chip on they go for it.

703
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,360
That's delusional. They're gonna make that shot one out of

704
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,199
ten times. Don't do that, that's delusional. That's what I'm

705
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:30,760
talking about.

706
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: You got a website, yes, Jim Flynn six dot com

707
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:39,679
s I j I M okay, j I M F

708
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,360
L y N N R si X dot com. What's

709
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:43,760
the six?

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00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: Four oh after I published my first book? Okay, after

711
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,960
I published my first book, well, I didn't have any

712
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:53,599
idea what I was doing. I didn't know you could

713
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,239
how to publish a book anything. I just wrote this

714
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,000
book and I put it up on Amazon. And the

715
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:02,360
next day I went looked for it and I realized

716
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,840
there's five other guys named Jim Flynn with books on Amazon.

717
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,920
Oh boy, you know Jim Flynn. Well, Fred Green isn't

718
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,039
exactly uncommon either, you know, Jim Flynn's kind of Mike

719
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:20,559
Smith kind of name. There's there's a guy's a sociologist

720
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:22,760
in New Zealand with a book. There's a guy who's

721
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,719
written the history of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers named Jim

722
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,519
Flynn with a book on Amazon. So I became Jim

723
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:33,039
Flynn six. That's my website.

724
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,639
Speaker 1: Okay. That was good to know. And the book again

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00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,480
is called Hit Your Second Shot First by Jim Flynn.

726
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,760
Fun little book to have if you have a nice

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00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,360
library of golf books. And we've been talking for years

728
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,639
and years about different books, and you've been filling up

729
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:54,119
your library. This is a good one. And if you

730
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:56,119
have friends that you want to just give a hard time,

731
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:59,159
buy a copy for them too. Jim, it was great

732
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:00,800
talk to you. Thanks well, thanks.

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00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: Thanks for Uch for having me. I can hear a

734
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,480
little hesitation in your voice because the book isn't for everybody.

735
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,440
I know that, but some people will think it's funny.

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00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,559
And that's all I'm all I'm asking for.