Speaker 1: Welcome to Back in Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 1: And Lorenzo.
Speaker 2: On this episode, we're continuing our discussion about the Forbes
Speaker 2: article on pieces of advice that coaches would give their
Speaker 2: younger selves. You know, we know coaching is such a
Speaker 2: large part of leadership, and because different organizations define it
Speaker 2: differently and talk about, you know, what it is and
Speaker 2: what's important to it, there are there are some leaders
Speaker 2: out there who they they don't know their coaching when
Speaker 2: they are and they don't know how to coach, or
Speaker 2: they believe it's something that it's not. And so going
Speaker 2: through this list of pieces of advice that coaches would
Speaker 2: give their younger selves, I think it helps kind of
Speaker 2: quantify the elements that it takes to.
Speaker 1: Be a good coach.
Speaker 2: On the less episode, we talked about embracing discomfort and
Speaker 2: about the fact that failure is an attempt at learning.
Speaker 2: On this episode, there's a few more I want to
Speaker 2: go over. The first is this idea that you can
Speaker 2: go further with a mentor or a coach. And I
Speaker 2: like this a lot because this is something that in
Speaker 2: a lot of cases, it takes experience in life and
Speaker 2: in work. To realize that you can and if you
Speaker 2: if you know this earlier on in your career, if
Speaker 2: you if you know that you can go further with
Speaker 2: a mentor coach earlier on, it will serve you better.
Speaker 2: And to me, what this speaks to is the importance
Speaker 2: of network because because mentors and coaches, it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be a formalized mentor mentee, you know, formalized relationship
Speaker 2: where you you know, you you scheduled time with a
Speaker 2: person every week or every month.
Speaker 1: That's great if you can, but doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2: It's it's the importance of a strong network and strong
Speaker 2: relationships with others who will open doors for you or
Speaker 2: help you figure out where those doos are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's less about
Speaker 1: the maybe the structure of when you know, formality wise,
Speaker 1: you have these calls and you have a you know,
Speaker 1: formal mentor and a type of thing, and it's more
Speaker 1: about the quality of the content and the conversation and discussion.
Speaker 1: I think it is good to have mentors in your
Speaker 1: life that that you don't work with every day, that
Speaker 1: are not a or the organization that you're in, because
Speaker 1: you know, it allows you to have to explain I
Speaker 1: think in more depth, maybe what's going on, what the
Speaker 1: situations are, what are you're working through, what are you
Speaker 1: trying to figure out? And it allows somebody that doesn't
Speaker 1: have all of the day to day context to just
Speaker 1: listen and then provide you with some perspective or some
Speaker 1: thoughts on that. So I definitely think that there's a
Speaker 1: you know, there's a specific need, especially as you continue
Speaker 1: to elevate your career you become a leader of leaders,
Speaker 1: the leader of leader of leaders, where a lot of
Speaker 1: what you do is messaging, is vision, it's influence. You know,
Speaker 1: somebody like that can be very very helpful in having
Speaker 1: you work through some of those things. But then to
Speaker 1: your point, coaching and mentorship can happen every single day
Speaker 1: by those that you surround yourself with and the peers
Speaker 1: that you have and the people that you connect with
Speaker 1: in your network, so long as you're intentionally using those
Speaker 1: relationships to help you to learn and to grow. I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that have really really big
Speaker 1: networks and they know everybody, but they don't they just
Speaker 1: they don't talk to them about things that they need
Speaker 1: or things that are working through. They just talk to them.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like let me I'm we call
Speaker 1: some and so, hey, how's it going? How's the family?
Speaker 1: You know, And it's just like dialogue, how how's work?
Speaker 1: How you feeling? Versus Hey, Chris, Like, I'm calling and
Speaker 1: working through something here, and I know that you probably
Speaker 1: have worked through something similar or I've noticed that this
Speaker 1: is not an opportunity in your business or with your team.
Speaker 1: So I'm calling you to ask about this specific thing.
Speaker 1: Can you like walk me through this? What did you do?
Speaker 1: How did you approach it? How did you get there?
Speaker 1: What were some things that you learned? Like that type
Speaker 1: of intention when it comes to like when I when
Speaker 1: I hear coaching and mentoring, I believe is needed. You
Speaker 1: have to be the one to proactively start that dialogue
Speaker 1: and work through that dialogue if you're looking to gain
Speaker 1: as much as you possibly can from the relationship and
Speaker 1: from your network. Right, for sure, I look at this.
Speaker 2: A great analogy of this would be like think about
Speaker 2: you know, healthcare. Right, So a lot of people they
Speaker 2: they keep their network strong, and they go out to
Speaker 2: lunch periodically, and they make sure that the phone calls
Speaker 2: are there and the happy birthday emails are there and
Speaker 2: there's a periodic check in, and they do all these
Speaker 2: things not to be able to influence the health of
Speaker 2: themselves and their abilities to move through problems on a
Speaker 2: daily basis. It's just to make sure that it's there
Speaker 2: for the catastrophic. So it's like, my network is strong,
Speaker 2: so if I lose my job or if I want
Speaker 2: to quit my job, there's a stronger people I can
Speaker 2: reach out to help me find a new job. And
Speaker 2: that's great to have that, But what about a strong
Speaker 2: group of people that can help you get better at
Speaker 2: who you are now and get better at the job
Speaker 2: you're currently doing if you're running into issues, that would
Speaker 2: be the kind of the healthcare tie in. So you
Speaker 2: do you only use your doctor when you get a
Speaker 2: catastrophic diagnosis or do you talk to them all the
Speaker 2: time about what's going on about the issues that you
Speaker 2: could be doing to make yourself better throughout to make
Speaker 2: it less likely that you will have a catastrophic diagnosis.
Speaker 1: And this is the exact same.
Speaker 2: So if you are if you're using your network not
Speaker 2: to get through the individual little problems you might be having,
Speaker 2: and you think you can do that part on your own,
Speaker 2: then yeah, you might have a strong network, but you're
Speaker 2: not going to be making yourself better as you go
Speaker 2: and these people can do that. And I will tell you,
Speaker 2: as someone who has has been on the like I've
Speaker 2: reached out to people to help with things that have
Speaker 2: gone on on an individual basis, not just the catastrophic
Speaker 2: but on the daily stuff. And I didn't do that
Speaker 2: until it was done to me. Someone reached out to
Speaker 2: me and ask me for help on something. And it
Speaker 2: wasn't just hey, I got fired, you know what can
Speaker 2: you do? It's it's I'm working through something and you've
Speaker 2: worked through this before, what did you do? And that
Speaker 2: was so it was a great call. I felt I
Speaker 2: felt needed. I felt like my contribution had been valued
Speaker 2: to this person in the past and they recognized that.
Speaker 2: It strengthened the relationship and it allowed that person to
Speaker 2: get done what they needed to get done because of
Speaker 2: the advice that I gave. And there was the kind
Speaker 2: of like this epiphany moment for me where I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I could do this for me too, Like it's not
Speaker 2: just I can do this for other people. I think
Speaker 2: a lot of leaders tend to think that way. They
Speaker 2: tend to think of the fact that that they need
Speaker 2: to be there for others, and they don't think about
Speaker 2: the fact that there are others who will be there
Speaker 2: for them. And not only is it something you should
Speaker 2: be doing, it will validate that person who if you
Speaker 2: believe in what their skills are, they could use some validation.
Speaker 1: Probably that's kind of a good.
Speaker 2: Thing to do. And it will help you get better
Speaker 2: in the way you lead and coach other people in
Speaker 2: the moment, So it goes both ways. You don't arrive
Speaker 2: someplace where all of a sudden, your role as a
Speaker 2: leader is only in what you can give to others.
Speaker 2: You still need to be improving yourself, and that happens
Speaker 2: at every single level of your career. And the moment
Speaker 2: you stop doing that the moment you lose a part
Speaker 2: of even your ability to help others because you're not
Speaker 2: kind of strengthening that idea that says that you need
Speaker 2: other people. It's if you think you can do this
Speaker 2: by yourself now that you've gotten to a certain level,
Speaker 2: you're wrong. But you will project that onto others and
Speaker 2: they'll be less likely to reach out to you if
Speaker 2: they can't see you modeling that behavior in terms of
Speaker 2: how you solve your own problems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a great point. You know, like you
Speaker 1: made me think about the role modeling aspect of this,
Speaker 1: because I even think many times, how often do I
Speaker 1: use the language with with my leaders, like hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I was speaking with my mentor the other day, or
Speaker 1: you know, hey, like let me share with you something
Speaker 1: that I learned from one of my peers, Like like
Speaker 1: you know, like like so much of that is you know,
Speaker 1: something that that that I do, But do I share
Speaker 1: it in a way that also role models for my
Speaker 1: leaders who may never see me in those spaces.
Speaker 2: You were born with the information and you just have
Speaker 2: it now just from it all that.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know I watched The Dark Crystal and yes,
Speaker 1: and I got all the information. Yes, yes, No, it's
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I think not just
Speaker 1: giving the advice or talking about the importance of a
Speaker 1: coach and a mentor, but sharing those those that impact
Speaker 1: and sharing the lessons that have been learned and how
Speaker 1: where you spend time, I think is a critical point
Speaker 1: because I think that's the thing that people go, oh
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Chris has a mentor and a coach.
Speaker 1: He was just talking about like I need to do
Speaker 1: I need to figure that out right, I need I
Speaker 1: need to. I need to for those that want it,
Speaker 1: and to your point as well, like for those that
Speaker 1: don't want to get you know, comfortable and you know,
Speaker 1: complacent in their roles and feel like, Okay, I finally
Speaker 1: got the job. I do a good job at the role.
Speaker 1: I pretty much know everything I need to know to
Speaker 1: be successful here. You know, it could be really easy
Speaker 1: to get pulled into that like everything is going fine
Speaker 1: and I don't really have to push myself anymore. But
Speaker 1: but that in fact is not the case. And if
Speaker 1: you're looking to continue to evolve your leadership and bring
Speaker 1: your team along and role model that for your leaders
Speaker 1: you have to also be new in those things, right right.
Speaker 2: The next one of these pieces of advice I want
Speaker 2: to go over kind of relates to this a little bit.
Speaker 2: The next one is vulnerability is a strength, and I agree,
Speaker 2: you know that's not news. You have to be not
Speaker 2: just vulnerable, but visibly vulnerable, meaning you can't just know
Speaker 2: and have the self awareness to know that it's needed
Speaker 2: and to know that there are shortcomings you may have
Speaker 2: that you need to improve on, but you need to
Speaker 2: partner with people in that journey because the projection of
Speaker 2: that vulnerability is what will strengthen the relationships.
Speaker 1: That you have with other people.
Speaker 2: And I think that that relates right back to going
Speaker 2: further with a mentor or a coach, because if you
Speaker 2: have to admit that you need one before you will
Speaker 2: go that route. And if you're going if you're trying
Speaker 2: to have a mental relationship with somebody, not because you
Speaker 2: believe you need it, but because you're trying to think about,
Speaker 2: you know, how can I leverage this relationship or what
Speaker 2: can I do to get something out of this relationship,
Speaker 2: you're going about it the wrong way. You have to
Speaker 2: go at it from a standpoint of humility that says
Speaker 2: there are things that I don't know that I want
Speaker 2: to know, and this person clearly does know them, so
Speaker 2: I can reach out to them and try to make
Speaker 2: that happen. Over a time, to admit that vulnerability is
Speaker 2: a strength that ties into coaching because a person that
Speaker 2: you're trying to coach is not going to learn anything
Speaker 2: from someone who they believe is just trying to school them. Right, So,
Speaker 2: if you're trying to coach somebody in a way that
Speaker 2: says I'm here to help you try to get better,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that I think I can do your
Speaker 2: job the same way that you can. When we think
Speaker 2: about it from a coaching in like professional sports, most
Speaker 2: of the great coaches cannot do the thing that they're
Speaker 2: coaching anymore. Maybe they could at one point, they almost
Speaker 2: never can do them now. And if you are a
Speaker 2: coach in business, chances are the people who you are
Speaker 2: coaching to get better at they know inherently the ins
Speaker 2: and outs of how to do that job better than
Speaker 2: you do, because.
Speaker 1: You're not doing that job anymore. You're in the leadership role.
Speaker 2: And if they believe that you're trying to coach them
Speaker 2: from a stand point of you know how to do
Speaker 2: their job better than them, so therefore you shove the
Speaker 2: credibility to coach them, you will lose that battle every
Speaker 2: single time because they know inherently that you don't know
Speaker 2: as much as they do, that you're not doing the
Speaker 2: role every day, that you are removed from it, at
Speaker 2: least partially or maybe wholly remove from it, and they
Speaker 2: can do it better. And so if you're going through
Speaker 2: and coaching somebody, you have the strength behind you of
Speaker 2: what the outcomes are.
Speaker 1: And what they should be.
Speaker 2: So if the outcomes aren't being met, then you start
Speaker 2: there obviously, and then then you can at least align
Speaker 2: on something. But to go in and say, I want
Speaker 2: to work with you, but you got to help me too.
Speaker 2: I don't understand necessarily how to do every part of
Speaker 2: your role. So if you're running into difficulties with this
Speaker 2: because and the outcomes aren't there, talking about why that
Speaker 2: might be, let the person define what's wrong, not you
Speaker 2: saying to them the numbers aren't where they need to
Speaker 2: be and you need to fix it, and here's how
Speaker 2: you're going to fix it. That's not coaching, that's prescribing.
Speaker 2: And if the person doesn't believe you have the ability
Speaker 2: or the authority to do that because you don't know
Speaker 2: the role, they're not going to listen. But if they
Speaker 2: themselves articulate why the numbers aren't there, then now you
Speaker 2: have a place to start with. And in order to
Speaker 2: do that, you have to admit that you don't know
Speaker 2: everything about what their role is and what they do,
Speaker 2: and that takes vulnerability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was having a conversation with the leader a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and you know I tend to
Speaker 1: when I'm getting to know leaders, I tend to ask,
Speaker 1: you know, really specific questions in different ways to better
Speaker 1: understand kind of who they are and how they lead.
Speaker 1: And the question I like to ask is kind of
Speaker 1: like if I was if I was working for you,
Speaker 1: if you were my leader, and I was asking that
Speaker 1: I wanted to understand, like what do I need to
Speaker 1: be as a leader to be successful under your leadership?
Speaker 1: Like what are the three things that you need to
Speaker 1: see for me that make me a successful person under
Speaker 1: your leadership? And shout out to Troy. He said, vulnerability, passion,
Speaker 1: and drive and you kind of walk through each one
Speaker 1: of those three things. And you know, I stepped back
Speaker 1: for a second. I said, you know, Troy, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate that you said vulnerability and not humility. And I
Speaker 1: was like, because vulnerability is the action that shows people
Speaker 1: that you are actual. You're like, you're actually humble, that
Speaker 1: you're willing to learn, that you're open, that you don't
Speaker 1: know everything, that that you're you're being very vulnerable with them.
Speaker 1: Because we don't get to assign self humility. I don't
Speaker 1: get to say, like, Chris, I'm really humble. Right, We've
Speaker 1: talked about this before, right, People get to say like, oh,
Speaker 1: Chris is humble, right, and and so I I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it that ever said that the only time it's
Speaker 1: ever been said was right now, Yes, eight seconds ago. Correct,
Speaker 1: snippet that and put that on on social media. Yes,
Speaker 1: but it's it was a great conversation because we talked
Speaker 1: a lot about vulnerability and what you were just sharing
Speaker 1: and and and how that is a superpower when it
Speaker 1: comes to building trust and relationships, when it comes to
Speaker 1: to kind of human to human conversation, When when when
Speaker 1: it helps people to relate to you as a person
Speaker 1: and not just assume that because you're a leader. Now
Speaker 1: you you have this agenda of wanting to like, you know,
Speaker 1: all these types of things, but you know when when
Speaker 1: you want to help somebody or coach somebody in this
Speaker 1: context of being a coach to being able to say like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a two part journey here,
Speaker 1: like I'm here to learn too, write and and maybe
Speaker 1: one of the best ways that I can maybe teach
Speaker 1: before we go is like, let me try this as
Speaker 1: your leader, and then you give me the coaching. Mm hmm, right,
Speaker 1: you tell me how I did, and you like, what
Speaker 1: did I what did you see? What did you, like,
Speaker 1: what could I, you know, have adjusted or done differently.
Speaker 1: What are the things that you appreciated that might have
Speaker 1: been different than what you would have done, and what
Speaker 1: did I miss? And let's because like, this is about learning,
Speaker 1: right and a part of my role and responsibility is
Speaker 1: that I'm making sure that you are learning and that
Speaker 1: you are developing on the things that you're focused on,
Speaker 1: and that you're having as much success as you can
Speaker 1: possibly have. But I also know that that requires both
Speaker 1: of us to learn something in this interaction. So not
Speaker 1: only do I want to make sure that I'm coaching
Speaker 1: you to a degree, but that I'm also sharing with you,
Speaker 1: like what I'm learning through the coaching and what I'm
Speaker 1: learning from you around the role, the responsibility, the expectations
Speaker 1: that you have. And that's a very powerful thing.
Speaker 2: I agree. I don't want to get off on tangent here,
Speaker 2: but I'd love to know what he defined the differences
Speaker 2: between passion and drive, because when you said those things,
Speaker 2: I was thinking that that you said that you liked
Speaker 2: that he said vulnerability and not humility, because humility is
Speaker 2: kind of like the byproduct of vulnerability. I would I
Speaker 2: would say the same thing that drive is kind of
Speaker 2: the byproduct of passion. I mean, you can fake drive
Speaker 2: without passion for a short period of time, but probably
Speaker 2: not forever.
Speaker 1: So what's what's what did you say? The difference was
Speaker 1: passion was was round, Like, you really have to love
Speaker 1: what you do. So if you're a leader, you really
Speaker 1: have to love to like lead people. You have to
Speaker 1: have a passion for wanting to see people become successful.
Speaker 1: You have to have a passion for for learning, building relationships, connecting,
Speaker 1: like you have to have a real passion for that
Speaker 1: piece of leadership. And then drive was more in the
Speaker 1: context of like you want to you want to win,
Speaker 1: like you you want to say, like how do you
Speaker 1: measure my work? And can I be as good as
Speaker 1: I could possibly be? In how you measure that? Matter
Speaker 1: of fact? Can I be the best? And in how
Speaker 1: you measure that? So that was kind of the context
Speaker 1: of those two things, which I thought was was a
Speaker 1: great balance as well, especially like in the context of
Speaker 1: leading people. Yeah, no, completely agree.
Speaker 2: So if there they feed into each other and they
Speaker 2: and they hold each other accountable. So if you're if
Speaker 2: you are driven to win and you don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of passion around it, then you will end up
Speaker 2: doing things to win that don't align with values, and
Speaker 2: it's a lot harder to do that. It's a lot
Speaker 2: harder to break a system of values in your drive
Speaker 2: to win if you have passion around it, because you're
Speaker 2: not just looking at the outcomes, you're looking at the
Speaker 2: journey itself. The journey has to has to you know,
Speaker 2: the journey has to give you something like almost intrinsic
Speaker 2: out of it to keep going. And without that passion,
Speaker 2: if it's just the drive to win, it's fleeting like
Speaker 2: it's it's okay, when when's the next win? When's the
Speaker 2: next win? When's then win? And that's how people fall
Speaker 2: into the trap of doing things that you know, maybe
Speaker 2: you know as as as bad as unethical or as
Speaker 2: not or as little as just kind of not valuing
Speaker 2: the individual employee relationship and just looking for whatever the
Speaker 2: outcome is and and not valuing the you know, the
Speaker 2: humanity of the people are putting to you.
Speaker 1: So I like that. It's great, great definitions from from
Speaker 1: Troy there absolutely, and with that it brings us to
Speaker 1: this episode is one minute hack. But first, if you
Speaker 1: work from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: All right, for this episode one minute Hack, here's I
Speaker 2: want you to do. I want you to make a
Speaker 2: list of the people who you consider part of your
Speaker 2: your close network, someone who wouldn't find it weird if
Speaker 2: you reached out to them in a phone call or
Speaker 2: an email to catch up and to talk about business.
Speaker 2: Write in a list of those people and write down
Speaker 2: two or three things that you think highly of them
Speaker 2: for traits or leadership characteristics or things that they're good at.
Speaker 1: Write all those things.
Speaker 2: Down for each of those people, so you kind of
Speaker 2: have them labeled as their there's kind of their skill set.
Speaker 2: I want you to go through that list and look
Speaker 2: at those skill sets and think about the things that
Speaker 2: you wish you were better at, like the things that
Speaker 2: you kind of look at yourself as thinking, Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: I can do that, but I want to be able
Speaker 2: to do it better. Those are the individual leaders and
Speaker 2: people in your network that can be a mentor for you,
Speaker 2: and you should absolutely reach out and ask them if
Speaker 2: they will have an informal or even a formal mentor
Speaker 2: relationship where you have scheduled time and you can reach
Speaker 2: out to them periodically, even if it's just you know,
Speaker 2: once every other month, to have an hour long or
Speaker 2: hour and hof long conversation, and then you need to
Speaker 2: be prepared for those conversations with questions that you plan
Speaker 2: on asking and examples you plan on giving and advice
Speaker 2: that you can ask, and you just send it to
Speaker 2: them in advance so they can look at it so
Speaker 2: that they're not trying to come up with answers for
Speaker 2: you in the moment. They have time to prepare and
Speaker 2: take the relationship seriously and ask them to take the
Speaker 2: relationship seriously.
Speaker 1: Ask them, tell them.
Speaker 2: What your goals are and what you're looking to do,
Speaker 2: and tell them how you believe they can positively impact
Speaker 2: those goals. And you'd be surprised at how quickly people
Speaker 2: will rise to the occasion to help and to kind
Speaker 2: of better articulate why they were able to do the
Speaker 2: things they've been able to do. Start there, and it
Speaker 2: will take vulnerability to do it, and it will take
Speaker 2: having that that strong network of people that you can
Speaker 2: go to it, that you can go to for it.
Speaker 2: But you will get a lot out of it, and
Speaker 2: you will you'll become a better coach and a better
Speaker 2: mentor yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that hack, and just kind of like
Speaker 1: the openness of the conversation and the dialogue, And I
Speaker 1: think the more that leaders can be vulnerable and transparent
Speaker 1: with what's going on, with with what you're looking for
Speaker 1: within the outcomes of the relationship, Like I think that
Speaker 1: those are things that that leaders don't do enough of.
Speaker 1: And the more that you have that level of dialogue
Speaker 1: with people, the better connection that you'll have, the more
Speaker 1: clarity that you'll get from them, And that's super helpful.
Speaker 1: And when they give you expectations on what they need
Speaker 1: from you as a leader, and that's really kind of
Speaker 1: what you know, I'm always looking for is like how
Speaker 1: how do you need me to show up so that
Speaker 1: you can do your best work? That's really important. And
Speaker 1: in the context of having those conversations, when you start
Speaker 1: to get into things like accountability, saying things like how
Speaker 1: do you like to be held accountable? What does that
Speaker 1: look like? You know, Like we tend to think about
Speaker 1: accountability as the thing that has to happen, when it
Speaker 1: should be the thing that's like, hey, like there's gonna
Speaker 1: be times when I need to be avail able to
Speaker 1: provide you with coaching, or when I need to talk
Speaker 1: to you about, you know, behaviors or things that we're
Speaker 1: working on. How do you prefer that to happen, and
Speaker 1: why can't we get a preference, Why can't we kind
Speaker 1: of like get a definition work on their terms, Because
Speaker 1: then you say, hey, like we've talked about this, and
Speaker 1: this is what it is, and it's not something that
Speaker 1: you know is like this personal things. It's because of
Speaker 1: this conversation that we've had, and it's a part of
Speaker 1: the job that is we're all expected to do, and
Speaker 1: it's part of my role and responsibility as a leader.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I think it's just good to have more
Speaker 1: conversations like that that help to really establish what the
Speaker 1: go forward is when it comes to the relationship and
Speaker 1: how you can work together.
Speaker 2: Right, And a really key thing to remember here most
Speaker 2: of all, I think is that these are the kind
Speaker 2: of things that strengthen the network and the relationship to
Speaker 2: begin with. So you don't hurt your relationship with someone
Speaker 2: in your network by asking them if they could be
Speaker 2: a mentor for you, if they can help you with something,
Speaker 2: you help it. So just because it changes the nature
Speaker 2: of the relationship temporarily into a mentor mentee kind of
Speaker 2: relationship there, it doesn't mean that they are that they
Speaker 2: now are are going to be less willing to be
Speaker 2: part of your network when it comes time to hey,
Speaker 2: I need to find a new job, or I would
Speaker 2: like to change careers, or I would like to have
Speaker 2: a leg up in this interview process, it will strengthen
Speaker 2: your ability to reach out to those people for those things.
Speaker 2: Because people inherently want to feel needed in a relationship,
Speaker 2: and if you can make them feel like you, like
Speaker 2: they are needed to you in this relationship, they will
Speaker 2: rise to that occasion. They will they will provide you
Speaker 2: with the things that you need, as opposed to it
Speaker 2: being the transactional Hey, I'm gonna send the occasional email.
Speaker 2: We'll get coffee every once in a while. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that's not important too, but the real relationship that
Speaker 2: last a long time, they're not built around the happy
Speaker 2: birthday emails and the occasional coffee when you're both in
Speaker 2: town together. They're built around the mentor menee relationship and
Speaker 2: the ways that two people can assist each other with
Speaker 2: the things they're looking to get better at.
Speaker 1: And move up in their own careers. Absolutely, and with
Speaker 1: that it brings us at the end of this episode,
Speaker 1: this is hacking your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you all next time.