Speaker 1: Oh, be the trigger Warren.
Speaker 2: This podcast may include explicit content that will take you
Speaker 2: out of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
Speaker 3: Listeners, discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the
Speaker 1: fourth and final part of Blood Ties, and hopefully we
Speaker 1: are going to wrap everything up in this one. Any
Speaker 1: unanswered questions from any of the other series, and uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna end it with a bang. Tolby, what do
Speaker 1: you think of the series so far?
Speaker 3: Still waiting for that bang?
Speaker 1: Fuck you? What do you mean? I think they've all
Speaker 1: been bangers. I'm going to end it with a bang.
Speaker 4: I'm anxious to see what that bang is. It's not
Speaker 4: to say we haven't had many bangs along the way.
Speaker 3: That's been you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be good, right.
Speaker 4: I actually am excited about this one. We always go
Speaker 4: into this with me not knowing what you've written. Sometimes
Speaker 4: you're telling me certain things, but I'm seeing.
Speaker 3: DOMI right out that that's getting me a little soft
Speaker 3: rubbery one.
Speaker 1: Sure Jeff would would approve.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell a story when we get going about
Speaker 4: why I'm so fascinated with Dahmer.
Speaker 1: Well, can I ask you you're not really his type?
Speaker 1: But if you saw him in a bar, would you
Speaker 1: go for him?
Speaker 4: No, I would play hard to get okay, because that
Speaker 4: means I would immediately end up in his refrigerator.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I do kind of want to do
Speaker 1: something a little bit different before I read the quote today.
Speaker 1: I want to kind of talk about the last episode
Speaker 1: and hopefully for those of you who are listening or watching,
Speaker 1: you suck around to the very end of the last
Speaker 1: episode where I played segments from a Ted Bundy interview
Speaker 1: and I played it for Colby, and I asked him
Speaker 1: to watch it through the eyes of pretending he actually
Speaker 1: was innocent of the crimes that have been attributed to him,
Speaker 1: And that's the way I watched it. I watched it
Speaker 1: as if what if he could be telling the truth
Speaker 1: in this interview and a lot of the crimes that
Speaker 1: have been like attributed to him he actually was innocent of.
Speaker 1: And that's how I watched it. But you had an
Speaker 1: even different dake on it.
Speaker 3: I have to share with the class.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, we joke around about the weird ass connection
Speaker 4: between Jack Nicholson circa Laurel Canyon, Jack Nicholson and Ted
Speaker 4: Bundy in their backstory and how maybe it could be
Speaker 4: him playing Ted Bundy. But I watched that interview just
Speaker 4: kind of thinking about that, and I don't think that
Speaker 4: was Ted Bundy.
Speaker 1: You feel like that was Jack Nicholson.
Speaker 4: I mean, go watch the movie five Easy Pieces or
Speaker 4: any movie easy Writer, Easy Writer. Watch watch these movies
Speaker 4: and think about the voice and the mannerisms too, the eyebrows,
Speaker 4: the smile. Yeah, the mannerisms are spot on. The voice
Speaker 4: even like, I'm one of those weirdos who think that
Speaker 4: the same person that played Terence McKennon was probably probably
Speaker 4: playing Ted Kazinski. Like there's actors out there playing multiple roles,
Speaker 4: and so I don't know. It's it's hard for me
Speaker 4: not to look at things that way, but I always
Speaker 4: say I'm not married to one idea over the other.
Speaker 4: I do look at things in a way and kind
Speaker 4: of get out there in certain certain regards to like
Speaker 4: what we're really being shown?
Speaker 3: Who's real? What's real?
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, though, if, besides the Jack Nicholson part,
Speaker 1: if you watched that and you didn't know who Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy was, but you knew about this research, would you
Speaker 1: have thought he may be innocent? No, he appeared guilty
Speaker 1: to you in that interview.
Speaker 3: Not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, he.
Speaker 4: Appeared to me like somebody who was trying to sell
Speaker 4: a narrative. He was trying to look compelling, he was
Speaker 4: trying to look deep. He's trying to make you look
Speaker 4: into this story even further.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so, right.
Speaker 4: So I don't look at it like, is this guy
Speaker 4: sitting in this chair guilty or innocent?
Speaker 3: Like what is he selling me?
Speaker 4: He's on the news, he's a professed serial killer, self
Speaker 4: professed even in certain testimonies, but in this one, he's
Speaker 4: claiming he's never hurt anybody physically in his life.
Speaker 3: So anyway, do with that what you will.
Speaker 4: I don't expect people out there to entertain that idea necessarily.
Speaker 4: It's just how my mind works these days.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 4: Also, we wanted to talk about another little wrap up
Speaker 4: from Gaysey, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we did the beginning of our life. Last
Speaker 1: episode was Gacy and then we kind of trailed off
Speaker 1: into Bundy. But some interesting information has crossed our path.
Speaker 3: Well, I listened to this.
Speaker 4: For people out there who know who Jay Dyer is,
Speaker 4: Jay Dyer's always got some pretty hot leads before they
Speaker 4: like really become known in the like mainstream conspiracy world.
Speaker 4: But he was talking about this podcast series that came out.
Speaker 4: I think it was twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, do
Speaker 4: you remember.
Speaker 1: I can look at it right now.
Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, you look up the synopsis of it, because
Speaker 4: I did a screenshot on my tablet, but I didn't
Speaker 4: bring it in here. But it's as we were going
Speaker 4: through this with all Julia's research, I was reminded about
Speaker 4: a podcast called The Clown and the candy Man that
Speaker 4: this independent woman journalist put out. And it's eight episodisodes long,
Speaker 4: and so obviously we know the Clown is John Wayne Gacy.
Speaker 4: The Candyman is a lesser known serial killer, even though
Speaker 4: at the time of him being busted, he was the
Speaker 4: biggest mass murderer at the time. He had twenty seven
Speaker 4: bodies Dean.
Speaker 1: Coral out of oh, twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: That's when that came out.
Speaker 4: It was twenty twenty, twenty twenty. Okay, so it's a
Speaker 4: lot more recent than I thought. So it must have
Speaker 4: been brand new when I listened to it. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: the read the little synopsis for everybody.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's called The Clown and the candyman, and
Speaker 1: it says two serial killers, Dean Coral and John Wayne Gacy,
Speaker 1: thousands of miles apart, brutally murdered over sixty teenage boys.
Speaker 1: The police said the murders were the work of these
Speaker 1: soul deranged killers, but for the first time, we revealed
Speaker 1: that they were actually connected by a network of pedophiles
Speaker 1: which was partially financed by prominent members of American society.
Speaker 1: This is America's sordid secret.
Speaker 4: Yes, so's She did some extensive research. Basically, Dean Coral
Speaker 4: was killed by what, at first glance appeared to be
Speaker 4: a victim, and when the investigation thickened, they found out
Speaker 4: he was a victim slash accomplished, maybe only accomplice. He
Speaker 4: claims he was handcuffed and that he talked Coral into
Speaker 4: letting him go, and then he grabbed a gun from
Speaker 4: him and killed him and saved two other people that
Speaker 4: were there, a girl and a guy that were both
Speaker 4: younger friends of his. But it turns out him and
Speaker 4: another guy were helping Dean Coral. They were recruiting for
Speaker 4: him and then they would actually help with all the
Speaker 4: sick shit that was going on, and a bunch of
Speaker 4: other busts started going down around that same time in
Speaker 4: different parts of the US. But this woman in her
Speaker 4: reces search tied it to what is her name, I
Speaker 4: don't want to just call her some.
Speaker 1: Woman Jacqueline buying them.
Speaker 3: Jacqueline buying them.
Speaker 4: And so she ends up looking into these big pedophile
Speaker 4: rings getting busted in Michigan and there was she calls
Speaker 4: it the real first pedophile island where I don't remember
Speaker 4: what lake it was, but they had a boys camp
Speaker 4: out there. She ties like these people who were really
Speaker 4: upper echelon, like one of the main guys was the
Speaker 4: son of a high level GM executive. And then so
Speaker 4: she just keeps tying all these groups together until she
Speaker 4: eventually was able to get one of Gasey's some one
Speaker 4: of the kids he hired to work for him was
Speaker 4: actually an accomplice of this other guy.
Speaker 1: His name was Steve Kram who his accomplice.
Speaker 3: What was the guy's name anyway, I keep forgetting it.
Speaker 1: Which one?
Speaker 3: No, the guy who had like the network where he would.
Speaker 1: John David Norman Norman.
Speaker 4: So Norman's accomplice was at one point hired by.
Speaker 3: Gasey. Was he a victim?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: The guy that he's talking about that worked for him.
Speaker 1: That was a young guy that he says helped him
Speaker 1: with some of this stuff. His name was Steve Cram. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he was the guy that was with but he
Speaker 1: Steve Cram. And for those who have kept up at
Speaker 1: all with true crime stuff, these names will not sound
Speaker 1: unfamiliar to you, but h John Wayne Gacy said that
Speaker 1: a young kid that was working for him named Steve
Speaker 1: Cram was friends with a guy named Philip Pasky who
Speaker 1: was also Yeah, he was also friends with John.
Speaker 4: David Normasky was actually on Gaysey's like books for being
Speaker 4: a worker. Yes, and so all these she was able
Speaker 4: to connect it. Well, the guys that were actually helping Qral,
Speaker 4: the younger kids that were helping I mean I say kids.
Speaker 4: They were like teenagers when they met him.
Speaker 3: And then by the.
Speaker 1: Time these kids also know PHILIPASKI.
Speaker 4: I don't remember, but they told the police initially that
Speaker 4: Coral wasn't acting independently, that he's part of this large
Speaker 4: pedophile network in Dallas. And that's where Norman was right.
Speaker 4: So everybody's dropping everybody's names in these circles.
Speaker 3: And this was before any.
Speaker 4: Of this stuff was like accessible to the general public
Speaker 4: any of these names or this information fact. They usually
Speaker 4: just didn't really publicize it too much. I mean, a
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff was just as big and fucked
Speaker 4: up as the stuff that's been going on on the
Speaker 4: West Coast with that Julia and I have been talking about,
Speaker 4: but it got zero coverage until Gaycy. Coral even goes
Speaker 4: kind of under the rug when you're just doing a
Speaker 4: surface level look over all the serial killer and true
Speaker 4: crime like legends. He's not one of them, but he
Speaker 4: should fucking be.
Speaker 1: He is what they call the candy man. And he
Speaker 1: had his body count was twenty eight boys, which is
Speaker 1: not far off from the thirty three that are attributed
Speaker 1: to Gaycy. And everybody blows Gaysy up like he was
Speaker 1: the biggest and the baddest and the only you know.
Speaker 1: But right around the same time, we have Dean Porl
Speaker 1: ripping and running through boys and apparently he had some
Speaker 1: kind of a torture board and.
Speaker 4: Oh and they both knew the handcuff trick. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: some other things kept coming up. It's almost like these
Speaker 4: guys were part of a network that trains and it's
Speaker 4: like she didn't really go to the level Jacqueline that
Speaker 4: I would have like have gone myself, like they're obviously
Speaker 4: being trained but by who? And is it intelligence?
Speaker 1: Well, they did mention there were this higher ups involved
Speaker 1: in things.
Speaker 4: But she needs to like read program to kill going
Speaker 4: down that path of research, and then she could since
Speaker 4: McGowan is no more, we should get hold of her.
Speaker 1: Man, you think she'd come on a show and talk
Speaker 1: about it, Yeah, dude, that would be a cool fucking
Speaker 1: episode podcast. Yeah, questioning her, But I mean for for
Speaker 1: an eight part series, and god knows I love series.
Speaker 1: I put him out all the time, but it's an
Speaker 1: eight part series each, it's.
Speaker 3: Not it's not redundant.
Speaker 4: It's like I complained about this kind of shit, like
Speaker 4: they just go redundant to get like ten episodes out.
Speaker 4: Every fucking word is key. Yes, I mean she does
Speaker 4: circle back a lot, but only when it's necessary. They're like,
Speaker 4: remind you, I'll remember we talked about this earlier.
Speaker 3: Here's why that's important.
Speaker 1: Well, and for me, I even had to like pause
Speaker 1: and like kind of like take in everything she was
Speaker 1: saying because she was moving at a pace and if
Speaker 1: you weren't paying attention, you'd fucking miss out on key information.
Speaker 1: So those are the kind of podcasts that I love
Speaker 1: to listen to. We knocked out the whole series in
Speaker 1: what a couple.
Speaker 4: Of days on a red even on a road trip.
Speaker 1: I mean they're forty minutes. If you had a nine
Speaker 1: to five job, you could knock out probably the whole series.
Speaker 4: But I mean, I'm saying it's like a seven hour
Speaker 4: time commitment probably, and you'll.
Speaker 1: Be hooked after the first one. Like it's it's super interesting.
Speaker 4: Each each episode is like a new layer of the
Speaker 4: fucking pedophile ASAGNYA.
Speaker 1: And you know, I thought we did a pretty good
Speaker 1: job covering gaycy stuff, but it just opens up a
Speaker 1: whole new world with this other connection with the.
Speaker 4: Well you go in knowing the angle that you're covering
Speaker 4: that's gonna I mean, she talked about stuff that we
Speaker 4: didn't know about, and I'm sure we've talked about stuff
Speaker 4: that she hasn't looked into.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sure. But I did think it was interesting
Speaker 1: because in one of the last episodes spoiler alert, she
Speaker 1: does include phone calls between John Wayne Gacy and this
Speaker 1: guy who was like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, talked about it a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we kind of talked about it, but to
Speaker 1: hear him actually speaking to guy and like giving him
Speaker 1: information a lot of this stuff. As we were saying
Speaker 1: before in our previous episodes, it just didn't even add
Speaker 1: up that John Wayne Gacy was a in town. There
Speaker 1: were receipts of him being out of town at the
Speaker 1: time of the disappearance.
Speaker 4: Of some of these boys, out of construction builds going
Speaker 4: on when some of these kids went missing. So even
Speaker 4: if John Wayne Gacy did kill them, he wasn't the
Speaker 4: one who.
Speaker 3: Took them off the street, right.
Speaker 1: He was one.
Speaker 3: Explored in the last episode.
Speaker 4: He could have just had the finishing house or been
Speaker 4: the one who like got to like finish him, and
Speaker 4: it was he got off on it somehow and then
Speaker 4: he'd fucked the dead bodies or whatever he did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes more sense to me anyways. But anyways,
Speaker 1: that is a great podcast.
Speaker 3: Check it out. Clown and the Candy Man.
Speaker 1: Clown and the Candyman. And so I guess I should
Speaker 1: read our honorary quote before we get started. Quote Jeffrey
Speaker 1: da thought he was the devil. Jeffrey thought he was
Speaker 1: so evil that he was equal to the devil. End quote,
Speaker 1: and that comes from Attorney Jerald Boyle is.
Speaker 4: That from like his closing statement in court he's the prosecutor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was this whole thing, and I
Speaker 1: have talked about it a little bit before, where jeff
Speaker 1: would say he would get off or like get charged
Speaker 1: up by watching The Exorcist Part two, and he even
Speaker 1: got contacts to change the color of his eyes.
Speaker 3: They covered that pretty well in.
Speaker 1: The Evan Peters. Yeah, so he really did think that
Speaker 1: he was evil incarnate and he was trying to build
Speaker 1: an altar. You remember that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll just I'll do this now. But Jeffrey Dahmer
Speaker 4: was why I said it was kind of a special
Speaker 4: thing for me because Jeffrey Dahmer was my entry into
Speaker 4: this world. I told Julia this story a little while ago,
Speaker 4: but when I was eleven or so, because it was
Speaker 4: in ninety four that he got caught.
Speaker 1: I was he died in ninety four, so it would
Speaker 1: have been way before that.
Speaker 3: I think he had just been put or just died.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that makes sense. It would have been ninety four.
Speaker 3: Then, Yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 4: Newsweek did a big spread on it, and I was
Speaker 4: at my aunt and uncle's house and I had to
Speaker 4: take a shit and one of my cousins was in
Speaker 4: the other bathroom, and so I got to go into
Speaker 4: their master bedroom bathroom, which was like in their house.
Speaker 4: That was like, you know, a privileged event. And I
Speaker 4: got led in there by my aunt and there was
Speaker 4: on the back of the toilet a stack of magazines
Speaker 4: and I found the article on Dahmer. Eleven years old
Speaker 4: reading this thing. You know, I'm like probably a few
Speaker 4: paragraphs in.
Speaker 3: By the time it got done.
Speaker 4: Taken my tiny eleven year old shit, and I snuck
Speaker 4: that magazine out of there and I finished reading it,
Speaker 4: and then that sent me down my fascination with serial killers.
Speaker 4: So Dahmer was my initiation. And I think, to me,
Speaker 4: he's the most fascinating.
Speaker 1: He is the most fascinating.
Speaker 4: And it's just weird because every study of psychopathy and
Speaker 4: like just the monsters that walk out there that have
Speaker 4: done this kind of thing or so so we're told
Speaker 4: he is a unique case study on so many levels.
Speaker 4: And he also fits perfectly into the program to Kill
Speaker 4: theory that McGowan laid out very well that Julia has
Speaker 4: been presenting and doing her own research on. He is
Speaker 4: just on every level, just extremely fascinating.
Speaker 1: He is, and you know, He was actually the second
Speaker 1: serial killer I was ever introduced to, and I will
Speaker 1: say this. The first serial killer I was ever introduced
Speaker 1: to was Ted Bundy, which peaked my interest into looking
Speaker 1: into serial killers. But the second one I ever found
Speaker 1: out about was Jeffrey Dahmer. And my mom rented some
Speaker 1: kind it was. It was a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a documentary. It was supposed to be like
Speaker 1: the Evan Peters thing. It was a movie about him,
Speaker 1: and I remembered watching was this the one with U?
Speaker 1: It came out when I was a kid. It wasn't
Speaker 1: wasn't anything recent.
Speaker 3: No, this isn't recent.
Speaker 4: What's the guy who played Hawk guy in the Avengers.
Speaker 3: He's a big actor. I can't think of.
Speaker 1: His name, right, I can't think of his name, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I know who it is.
Speaker 4: I play movie in the early two thousands.
Speaker 1: Let me see if it was that one because Dahmer
Speaker 1: two thousand.
Speaker 3: Jeremy Jeremy Rinner. Click on, you know who that is?
Speaker 4: He's hot guy, right, mm hmmm, he played him?
Speaker 1: And I guess well, I said, it's just get it
Speaker 1: because yeah, well, my mom rented it at fucking Family
Speaker 1: Video or Blockbuster or some shit, and I'll never forget
Speaker 1: the cover that's I remember, you know, taking it home.
Speaker 1: I was in like fourth grade or some shit like that,
Speaker 1: and I threw up after I watched it. And then
Speaker 1: you think that would stop my mom from showing me
Speaker 1: any more perverted shit, But no, she she was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyways, I was severely triggered by even watching the
Speaker 1: Evan Peters one was triggering for me. Like they did
Speaker 1: a great job of putting you almost into the perspective
Speaker 1: of the victim on some of those.
Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody that had anything bad to say about that
Speaker 4: was and I mean it's like one of the.
Speaker 3: Cooke creator is an American horror story.
Speaker 4: So there was a lot of like creative liberty. But
Speaker 4: at the same time, he really.
Speaker 3: Did stick to the facts.
Speaker 4: It did get a little wokish at the times, but
Speaker 4: there is moments in that I agree with you entirely
Speaker 4: where you just feel like, anyway, the critique was that
Speaker 4: it glorified him, and it really didn't. Were you really
Speaker 4: got a good perspective of the victims' families.
Speaker 3: And you're.
Speaker 1: The fucking deaf guy.
Speaker 4: But I remember the scene where he's lifting weights and
Speaker 4: he gets that jogger to come back to his apartment and.
Speaker 3: He kills him.
Speaker 4: And then he's like driving him with all the grass
Speaker 4: clippings and gets pulled over just obviously hammered, and.
Speaker 3: The cops let him go.
Speaker 4: And then the scene where he's like standing in front
Speaker 4: of the mirror and he drinks blood, or even where
Speaker 4: he's cuddling with the mannequin. Yeah, they're saying like that
Speaker 4: eighties song baby don't Go, Don't Go.
Speaker 3: He's just like spooning it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it gives you the fucking creeps, but you also
Speaker 4: really feel sorry for him.
Speaker 1: It's like you.
Speaker 4: Know that, like he's not a bad guy, Like he
Speaker 4: doesn't like he's not a good guy, but he's like
Speaker 4: other than this fucked up ship he's doing, he's like
Speaker 4: polite people he cares about. Like, I don't think he's
Speaker 4: a psychopath. Listen, like was he programmed to kill?
Speaker 1: I have watched many a fucking interview of Jeffrey Dahmer,
Speaker 1: a real interview where he's really talking and he's really
Speaker 1: in prison, not a documentary, not.
Speaker 3: A red I watched.
Speaker 1: If you met him, you would not think.
Speaker 3: You might think he was You might think he was
Speaker 3: a little weird maybe, but like he was.
Speaker 4: I think that about fucking multiple people multiple times a
Speaker 4: day doesn't mean they're super.
Speaker 1: A softness about know and like a sincere and a
Speaker 1: genuine like.
Speaker 4: Well, I used to work with a guy at the
Speaker 4: soap company where I make soap, and he was like.
Speaker 1: That, a soft, gentle kind of.
Speaker 4: Stuff, like he cared, but he just kind of came
Speaker 4: off as weird. But he was really like into like
Speaker 4: wanting everything to be cool with everybody all the time.
Speaker 4: But I also thought, like I could see that guy
Speaker 4: getting caught bodying.
Speaker 1: Okay, but honey, hear me out. You know that show
Speaker 1: I was watching yesterday about the psychopaths or whatever, and
Speaker 1: I said, it's less about the killers and more about
Speaker 1: the psychopathy. Jeffrey doesn't even fit any of those profiles
Speaker 1: of a psychopath. Like you, if you watch the interviews
Speaker 1: of all these psychopaths, they're lining up to show you
Speaker 1: all these traits about Jeffrey did not fit that profile
Speaker 1: of a psychopath. That's unfeeling, unremorseful. He always said that
Speaker 1: he regretted what he did, he knew it was wrong,
Speaker 1: he felt bad about it, and I think in some
Speaker 1: way he actually felt love for the people that he
Speaker 1: was murdering, which is a psychopath.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the ones that he was romantically You mentioned the
Speaker 4: deaf guy, but there was a few and I in
Speaker 4: the movie you can see it, but you can actually, like.
Speaker 3: Julia just said, see it yourself.
Speaker 4: There's interviews where he's saying he didn't want to ever
Speaker 4: let that person go, and he thought that if he
Speaker 4: killed dominate them, that they would always be a part
Speaker 4: of him.
Speaker 1: Does that fit the psychopath profile half of it?
Speaker 4: Does He's able, He's able to fucking just willing nilli
Speaker 4: kill these people.
Speaker 1: The murder part, yes, I guess.
Speaker 4: But then he's also like really invested in, like being
Speaker 4: attached to these people, and he he's one of the
Speaker 4: weird ones. And I might be stepping a little ahead here,
Speaker 4: but when he gets caught, he's fucking faces down on
Speaker 4: the ground, he's in handcuffs, he's already starting to fucking
Speaker 4: spill the beans. YEA ever fucking deny a goddamn thing
Speaker 4: it In fact, he was too honest, like you could
Speaker 4: also you could also you could just say, yeah, I
Speaker 4: killed this person, But then you don't have to sit
Speaker 4: down with a prison psychiatrist and say I fucked their intestines.
Speaker 3: I grilled up with asparagus.
Speaker 4: The human sashimi style, just little slits of ass, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, he's so it's almost like he's an op
Speaker 4: in a way that he doesn't even know. Like he's
Speaker 4: just going in depth.
Speaker 3: This is getting printed in the media.
Speaker 4: He's talking about fucking necrophilia, cannibalism, just the.
Speaker 1: People's brains with myriadic acid.
Speaker 4: I mean, he is a goddamn walking horror story. And
Speaker 4: the reason it's so scary is because you'd see him
Speaker 4: in the fucking chopping mall and not think twice about him.
Speaker 3: You might just think that guy's weird.
Speaker 4: At the very worst, you think that, But it's almost
Speaker 4: like the perfect If he is indeed one and he's
Speaker 4: part of this programming, I would say they like nailed
Speaker 4: it with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is like the perfect serial killer.
Speaker 4: See. I always said that out of the three big ones,
Speaker 4: we talk about, Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer. Did we talk about
Speaker 4: this in the last episode or was a private conversation
Speaker 4: we're having where I said Dahmer was always the.
Speaker 3: One that got me the most. Yeah, And I thought
Speaker 3: you said Bundy, but.
Speaker 1: Well he was the first one I was introduced.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's why it gets because Jeffrey was my thing.
Speaker 1: He sticks with me.
Speaker 4: It was you never forget your first right.
Speaker 1: He sticks with me the most out of all of them.
Speaker 1: But I was first introduced to Ted. And it's like
Speaker 1: you said, before we get too far into jeff I
Speaker 1: do have some stuff that I want to kind of
Speaker 1: go over and sum up about Ted before we move on.
Speaker 1: And it's some more some more inconsistencies and shit. And
Speaker 1: it's like we were talking about with the interview. Could
Speaker 1: he have just been like a patsy guy? Could he
Speaker 1: have been an actor? Is he really responsible for half
Speaker 1: this shit? Some of it doesn't even make sense that
Speaker 1: he could have been. And before we jump into it,
Speaker 1: I do want to say for those of you who
Speaker 1: are listening to this, if you're sick and tired of
Speaker 1: the ads, if you just can't take it, you're gonna
Speaker 1: want to go over to Patreon, where it's ad free,
Speaker 1: you get early access, and you get bonus content. I
Speaker 1: think that's true of the Cults Patreon as well. But
Speaker 1: for the Cosmic Peach Patreon listeners, you'll get ad free
Speaker 1: early releases on all the episodes, and you'll get extra
Speaker 1: shit too, So I get it. The ads suck, but
Speaker 1: it is what it is. I want to get into
Speaker 1: something that was actually mentioned in the Ted Bundy interview.
Speaker 1: He was talking about a girl, Carol Duranch, that was
Speaker 1: abducted from the shopping mall. She's the only survivor that
Speaker 1: we know of, and he called her a professional witness
Speaker 1: in that interview, and that kind of stuck with me
Speaker 1: because what if she is she's one of the ones
Speaker 1: who said that she got abducted by him and the
Speaker 1: school kidnapping happened at the same time, but it's physically
Speaker 1: impossible for him to have been episodes no, remember from
Speaker 1: the last episode this was like in Utah, and she
Speaker 1: got supposedly abducted at the shopping mall at the same
Speaker 1: time the girl from the school got abducted, and they
Speaker 1: happened within fifteen minutes of each other. But there's no
Speaker 1: way to be in those two places within fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: of each other. And they also described completely different people
Speaker 1: at both of the scenes. So in the interview with
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, he calls Carol Durant a fucking professional witness.
Speaker 3: And meaning an actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she delivered testimony that was riddled with discrepancies
Speaker 1: and inconsistencies. She was unable to decide if her would
Speaker 1: be abductor had a mustache or not, among other things,
Speaker 1: and she told the court that his car had been
Speaker 1: white or tan, although she had initially told the police
Speaker 1: that it was blue. And in the Netflix zach Efron movie,
Speaker 1: they even alluded to the fact that she was told
Speaker 1: to choose Ted out of a lineup and that they
Speaker 1: fed her information. Do you remember that from the Netflix
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy? They were like, how the guy that played
Speaker 1: his attorney, he's like a famous actor.
Speaker 3: I can't talk about the front because it's funny because.
Speaker 4: They made the the Ted Bundy documentary. The tapes came
Speaker 4: out right before the movie. It's the same director.
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense, but.
Speaker 4: It's verbatim, a fictionalized account of his documentary.
Speaker 3: I don't remember who played a lawyer.
Speaker 1: Well, he was like, how did you choose my client
Speaker 1: out of a lineup? And she was like no, but
Speaker 1: that's how he sounded. And UH was like they no.
Speaker 4: Billy Crystal, No, I'm just getting random now.
Speaker 1: Uh, But she said they told me to. They put
Speaker 1: that in the movie, so I think that was interesting.
Speaker 4: Well, even if it's not part of the story, it
Speaker 4: is part of the story if that's what they're putting
Speaker 4: in there.
Speaker 1: And during a break in the preliminary proceedings, Ted purportedly
Speaker 1: escaped after being conveniently left unguarded by jumping out an
Speaker 1: open window and strolling down the street. Ted then quickly
Speaker 1: and improbably found his way to an empty cabin that
Speaker 1: happened to be stocked with what fucking food, clothing, a rifle,
Speaker 1: of flashlight batteries, blankets, and first aid fucking supplies. He
Speaker 1: allegedly entered the cabin by prying loose the wire mesh
Speaker 1: that had been applied to the windows for security, though
Speaker 1: a caretaker later said that it would have taken superhuman
Speaker 1: strength to do that with bare hands, as Ted claimed
Speaker 1: to have done, so that's obviously improbable. What do you
Speaker 1: think about his escape and fucking finding this cabin and.
Speaker 4: Shit, Well, I don't know if I'm getting ahead here,
Speaker 4: but the story is that he wanders back into town
Speaker 4: all disoriented. To me, if this is a real story
Speaker 4: with a real badass, which let's not say for his
Speaker 4: misgivings that he wasn't a fucking animal, he finds this
Speaker 4: cabin with a gun, food, blank blankets, warm clothing. He
Speaker 4: can't just fucking go to another town and start over
Speaker 4: like any real.
Speaker 3: Serial killer would.
Speaker 4: I always thought this part was a little part of
Speaker 4: the scripted narrative, like he escaped not just once either,
Speaker 4: there's a time later on that he escapes. So to me,
Speaker 4: it's another part of the fear campaign, like we got
Speaker 4: the monster, but fuck he keeps getting out.
Speaker 1: It almost sounded to me like they that, let's just
Speaker 1: say it was part of the scare tactics. They probably
Speaker 1: had that fucking cabin like set up for him.
Speaker 4: Well, even that could be part of it.
Speaker 3: But if this is as deep as it.
Speaker 1: Could be, he jumped out of a window.
Speaker 4: He could have just fucking like done that and then
Speaker 4: strolled in the woods and been picked up by the
Speaker 4: CIA and a fucking helicopter and they're like, all right,
Speaker 4: in about five days, Ted or Jack, we're sending you
Speaker 4: back into that town, all disheveled, and then you're gonna
Speaker 4: enter the fucking show again, and you're gonna go to trial,
Speaker 4: and you're gonna go down to Florida. And I don't
Speaker 4: know the whole thing is really you use the word
Speaker 4: improbable a couple times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: They say that to get into that cabin it would
Speaker 1: have taken superhuman strength. Yet Ted was able to jump
Speaker 1: out of a window, run through the wilderness, pry open
Speaker 1: this wire mesh on this cabin that just happened to
Speaker 1: be stocked with all the things that he would need
Speaker 1: to survive for a couple of days. Then he wanders
Speaker 1: back into the same town to get recaptured. Are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? Does that sound like some badass cereal killering?
Speaker 1: Not really, No, it sounds like And by the way,
Speaker 1: if they're watching him like they're supposed to be doing,
Speaker 1: how the fun did get out the window?
Speaker 4: The whole thing in the first place is very weird.
Speaker 4: He's making copies in the library, something unattended, and there's
Speaker 4: just a window that you can open and jump out of.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, I mean a cabin that's just full of supplies.
Speaker 4: There's a reason that in the you know, pop culture
Speaker 4: sphere nineteen fifties to nineteen eighties. Nineteen eighties kind of
Speaker 4: made a change. Maybe it started in the seventies where
Speaker 4: the cops started to look like badasses, but they're usually
Speaker 4: just bumbling idiots, And I mean this kind of just like,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, some fucking guard was thought it would be
Speaker 4: a good idea to walk away from Ted and let
Speaker 4: him make copies in a room that had an open
Speaker 4: window one story up where anybody could.
Speaker 1: Jump out, and he sticks his landing, runs down and
Speaker 1: find this is just all. But he was eventually captured
Speaker 1: from his first fucking escape, and with his trial set
Speaker 1: to begin on j Ainuary ninth, nineteen seventy eight, Ted
Speaker 1: again managed to escape from his captors. This time, he
Speaker 1: allegedly climbed through a twelve inch square hole in the
Speaker 1: ceiling of his.
Speaker 3: Cell, just like Bruce Willison. I heard pretty.
Speaker 1: Much which he had cut with a hacksaw, raising the
Speaker 1: obvious question of one, where did he get a fucking
Speaker 1: hacksaw from.
Speaker 4: He found it in that cabin and he jammed it
Speaker 4: up his ass.
Speaker 1: And two how was he able to noiselessly hack through
Speaker 1: this fucking steel plate without anyone noticing. It's just like
Speaker 1: the cabin in the first escape. He's got fucking a
Speaker 1: hacksaw and tools and fucking shit in his cell and
Speaker 1: he's able to hack through the ceiling a twelve y
Speaker 1: twelve inch hole in the ceiling fucking climbed up there.
Speaker 1: Nobody noticed the damn thing. This this sound? I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. He's almost as if they've set it
Speaker 1: up for him to be this crazy fucking ah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I said, the CIA could have just picked
Speaker 4: him up out of the woods. Was he ever really
Speaker 4: in a cell? Did he escaped from or is that
Speaker 4: the story?
Speaker 1: They put it on the news and they showed the hole,
Speaker 1: so it must be real, right.
Speaker 4: I see holes in the news all the time.
Speaker 1: Insane. So once in the crawl space above his cell,
Speaker 1: he somehow scurried over to the space above a deputy's
Speaker 1: empty apartment, lowered himself down into a closet, and then
Speaker 1: he casually strolled out the door to freedom. A prison
Speaker 1: snitch is said to have repeatedly reported hearing Ted moving
Speaker 1: around in the crawl space at night, but nothing was
Speaker 1: ever done. Looking at this on its face, it should
Speaker 1: be evident that this was purposeful in some way. And
Speaker 1: the only reason I say that is because let's just
Speaker 1: say he was in a cell, and he did have
Speaker 1: a hacksaw, and he did hacksaw fucking hole in the ceiling,
Speaker 1: and he did get into the jailer's apartment through the closet,
Speaker 1: and he did stroll out right through the front door,
Speaker 1: and there was a prison snitch who kept complaining that
Speaker 1: he was here in head hacking this shit, and they
Speaker 1: didn't do anything about it. Do you not feel like
Speaker 1: this was by design? That he was able to escape
Speaker 1: twice in like such a short period of time. And
Speaker 1: then after this second escape is when he went to
Speaker 1: town on the fucking Kyomega girls.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that him escaping twice, If you're saying
Speaker 4: like he's not a part of it, that just made
Speaker 4: it easy for him. I think it's more likely that
Speaker 4: he was in on it, and he isn't this independently
Speaker 4: acting serial killer. He's not really part of a satanic cult.
Speaker 4: He's part of the cult intelligence agency.
Speaker 3: And he's an.
Speaker 4: Actor playing a guy who never really existed. He didn't
Speaker 4: have a fucking birth certificate. His fucking past as murky
Speaker 4: as all hell, and then they try to sprinkle the
Speaker 4: weirdness of his past with the basic bitch ass formula
Speaker 4: of serial killers. His mom fucked people in front of him,
Speaker 4: she was a prostitute, she was really mean to him.
Speaker 4: Maybe sure sounds good on paper, but all this just
Speaker 4: seems like a fucking bad movie, and so I don't
Speaker 4: think it was conveniently set up for him to escape.
Speaker 4: If we're going to go that far, it could all
Speaker 4: just be a fucking lie. And there's this guy that's
Speaker 4: Ted Bundy that they put in front of the camera
Speaker 4: on the news.
Speaker 3: That's my take.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would I would agree with you, But
Speaker 1: I mean so.
Speaker 4: And maybe people really died, Like I'm not saying these
Speaker 4: women at the sorority house didn't die because well, like
Speaker 4: John Gusty told us.
Speaker 1: The bodies are real, but the people.
Speaker 3: Can be characters.
Speaker 4: There can be all sorts of characters involved, but a
Speaker 4: lot of times real people die in these psyops.
Speaker 1: Well that yeah, for sure. But I mean looking into this,
Speaker 1: in the research behind this shit, it makes you wonder
Speaker 1: how well it doesn't make you wonder how people believe it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, damn, if more people knew about this,
Speaker 1: nobody would believe in these serial killers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, because it to me, it's not
Speaker 4: an either or. It's a lot of it's real and
Speaker 4: a lot of it is you know, Hollywood eyed and
Speaker 4: put in front of our eyes to never forget. I mean,
Speaker 4: as soon as this shit dies down, Netflix comes on
Speaker 4: with a fucking documentary series on all of these serial killers,
Speaker 4: because well, what's more relevant today than it was? A've
Speaker 4: read after it happened. More people now know about this
Speaker 4: than when it actually going on, So the fear does
Speaker 4: live on the.
Speaker 1: What did you show me the other day about John
Speaker 1: Ramsey's trying to do fucking interviews? Still in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: John Ramsey is still talking about new leads in John
Speaker 1: Benet's case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was The New York Post.
Speaker 4: On December twenty seventh, they released breaking news in the
Speaker 4: cold case of John Beney Ramsey and her dad's up
Speaker 4: there given a statement.
Speaker 1: Fuck him, dude. They're never going to crack the case
Speaker 1: because we all know what really went down. If you haven't,
Speaker 1: you need to listen to Hey, you know what, I
Speaker 1: got a fucking message from someone through my link tree,
Speaker 1: and you know, thanks to anybody who reaches out. I
Speaker 1: do appreciate your feedback. Again, if you want to send
Speaker 1: me a question or something, you can go on Instagram
Speaker 1: and contact me through the link tree. But they asked
Speaker 1: me about my John bene Ramsey episodes in series I've
Speaker 1: done on her, and they said that they thought it
Speaker 1: started in twenty nineteen. I'm pretty sure that was Human Vibrations.
Speaker 1: My first episode came out in twenty twenty two on
Speaker 1: John Benet. And yeah, I mean there's a lot of
Speaker 1: crazy theories out there. I don't think any of them
Speaker 1: are wrong or right, are perfect. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: aim for the middle on some of that shit, But yeah,
Speaker 1: they're still sensationalizing John Benet, So why not Ted? Why
Speaker 1: not Dahmer? Why not Gacy? But anyways, once free from
Speaker 1: the second escape, Bundy this time was somehow able to
Speaker 1: quickly locate a car that just happened to be outfitted
Speaker 1: with a set of studded radial tires, which would have
Speaker 1: been a necessity for the snow covered roads he would
Speaker 1: be facing. And it also happened to have the keys
Speaker 1: already in the adnition. So it's just like the cat
Speaker 1: that was stocked with supplies and fucking is like they've
Speaker 1: set it up for success. And this time Ted wasted
Speaker 1: no fucking time getting out of town. By the time
Speaker 1: his disappearance was discovered at noon the next day, he
Speaker 1: was already in Chicago. Seems his stolen car didn't get
Speaker 1: him very far though it apparently broke down on the
Speaker 1: way to Vail. Luckily, though, he was picked up, and
Speaker 1: he then traveled by bus from Vail to Denver, and
Speaker 1: then by plane from Denver to Chicago. Once in Chicago,
Speaker 1: he stole another car and drove it to Atlanta. From there,
Speaker 1: he made his way to Tallahassee, Florida, somehow acquiring a
Speaker 1: new identity along the way. Chris Hagen, That is how
Speaker 1: the official story reads. Anyways, is this not fucking hard
Speaker 1: to believe? Given his escape seemed to have been helped
Speaker 1: quite a bit?
Speaker 3: Believe?
Speaker 1: I mean, we got planes, trains, fucking new identities. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's getting How did he get? How did he have
Speaker 1: money to fly?
Speaker 3: A pallid questions?
Speaker 1: And after his disappearance was announced, wouldn't they have like
Speaker 1: checked some type of ida or some shit. This just
Speaker 1: seems improbable. It seems improbable that he was able to
Speaker 1: get to Florida in this manner.
Speaker 3: I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I think they picked him up outside of the prison
Speaker 1: or the jail or wherever he escaped from and took
Speaker 1: him straight to Florida.
Speaker 4: I mean that would be where my mind would.
Speaker 1: Go instead of this whole His car broke down and veiled,
Speaker 1: and veiled to Denver, then Denver to Chicago, and then
Speaker 1: somehow he got to Atlanta, fucking stole another car, got
Speaker 1: a new identity, then ended up in Florida. Like does
Speaker 1: this I know, I get it, Like he's supposed to
Speaker 1: be like this crazy serial killer and like whatever, he's
Speaker 1: got superhuman powers, I guess, But it.
Speaker 3: Seems he's a shape shifter ish.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: They say he's a shape shifter too, I mean the
Speaker 4: whole thing. That's a really good comic book idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but so. On January fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight, the
Speaker 1: infamous slaughter took place at the Kyomega sorority House on
Speaker 1: the campus of the University of Florida at Tallahassee. What's
Speaker 1: crazy is that this crime did not bear even the
Speaker 1: slightest resemblance to any of the previous crimes attributed to
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, and was actually reminiscent of the attack twelve
Speaker 1: years earlier that had been attributed to Richard Speck, which
Speaker 1: we covered in the Program to Kill series. Colby mentioned
Speaker 1: it in an earlier episode, but it appeared Ted suddenly
Speaker 1: changed his mo from an occasional bludgeoning and strangulation, maybe
Speaker 1: a little necro stuff to a full blown balls to
Speaker 1: the Walt slaughterhouse killing. It just didn't match. And so
Speaker 1: out in the open too, because he liked seclusion with
Speaker 1: all of the other victims they were taking up into
Speaker 1: the mountains and shit. This one was just like he
Speaker 1: went in with a club and just started busting pitches
Speaker 1: over the head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's whack them all.
Speaker 4: I mean maybe if you want to follow the official narrative,
Speaker 4: I like to entertain these ideas. Maybe he had been
Speaker 4: incarcerated and he'd been on the run and his fucking
Speaker 4: Dark Passenger was just at such blue balls he just
Speaker 4: had to fucking go full BOUKACKI and just grab a
Speaker 4: club with a fucking claw hammer on the end of
Speaker 4: it and just start fucking going ape shit in the sorority.
Speaker 4: I mean, why is that funny?
Speaker 3: That's it?
Speaker 1: I mean, since you mentioned Dark Passenger, I just have
Speaker 1: to say, for any of you out there who watched Dexter,
Speaker 1: the new one, the original sin were how many episodes
Speaker 1: in four it's so fucking good five stars. If you
Speaker 1: love Dexter, you need to watch it. It's really good.
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by paramount plus showtime.
Speaker 1: So anyways, the Cayo Mega Sorority House, right, four girls
Speaker 1: were brutally bludgeoned in the early morning hours. Two of
Speaker 1: them died from their injuries. A fifth girl was subsequently
Speaker 1: attacked at another location not far away. The first attack
Speaker 1: at the Kyomega house occurred just after three am and
Speaker 1: was over in just fifteen minutes. And somehow, in that
Speaker 1: brief period of time, a single assailant, supposedly Ted Beehole,
Speaker 1: was allegedly able to go room to room, locating and
Speaker 1: viciously beating four women, in addition to raping and sodomizing
Speaker 1: two of them. So, actually, my question to you is,
Speaker 1: if he assaulted five girls in under fifteen minutes and
Speaker 1: he acted alone, is he is he busting a nut
Speaker 1: in all five of them? Because he says it took
Speaker 1: him fifteen minutes he raped and sodomized. Okay, wait, two
Speaker 1: of them. He raped and sodomized two out of the five,
Speaker 1: but he beat the other four and it took him
Speaker 1: just fifteen minutes to accomplish all of that. His daddy
Speaker 1: Ben Seamers.
Speaker 4: The Ted Bundy Saga brought to you by bluetoo. I mean,
Speaker 4: he apparently had to have a boner pill. Even the
Speaker 4: official narrative that his dark passenger had blue ball.
Speaker 1: Still, fifteen minutes he did that.
Speaker 3: He's a porn star.
Speaker 4: He went fucked all the people he killed.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that he fucked.
Speaker 1: Them all in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3: They say, wow, that's impressive.
Speaker 1: But doesn't that he supposedly acted alive.
Speaker 3: He came on every one of them in That's.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, Honey, does that seem realistic to you?
Speaker 4: Maybe it's my insecurity speaking, but nobody could do that,
Speaker 4: not even Ted fifteen minutes old.
Speaker 1: Was he he was in his thirties. No, yes, here
Speaker 1: he was.
Speaker 4: I'm saying, no, it's not okay. I mean, maybe he
Speaker 4: was a superhuman. He could rip through wire mesh outside cabins.
Speaker 4: He could bust nuts five and fifteen minutes. He must
Speaker 4: have really enjoyed fucking whack them all at the sorority house.
Speaker 4: That's just yeah, that's fucking okay. We talk about maybe.
Speaker 3: There's more than one.
Speaker 4: Or that sometimes it's just a flat out lie. But yeah,
Speaker 4: no guy's gonna bust fucking five nuts in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: But it has to be that way in order for
Speaker 1: him to get to the other location where the other
Speaker 1: person got raped. So that's six in half an.
Speaker 3: Hour, well five and five and fifteen minutes? Why not six?
Speaker 1: It just so I'm laughing, and I'm I know, like,
Speaker 1: I want to know what it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: I want to know what he was eating. Right, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna start that diet.
Speaker 1: Okay. Now, one of the sorority sisters need a near
Speaker 1: He caught a very brief glimpse of an intruder quote
Speaker 1: unquote in the house.
Speaker 4: Was he leaving a trail snow of semen after bumping
Speaker 4: five nuts.
Speaker 1: So, she said she caught a glimpse of him as
Speaker 1: he was leaving out the front door. She only saw
Speaker 1: his profile and described him as wearing a beanie pulled
Speaker 1: down low over his face maybe, and she said his
Speaker 1: most noticeable feature was a large nose. Nita had just
Speaker 1: arrived home at three am from a campus party and
Speaker 1: was probably turned to some degree, let's be real. Although
Speaker 1: the state claimed that its star witness was totally sober
Speaker 1: on the night of the attack, but under hypnosis, she
Speaker 1: later said that the intruder closely resembled the sorority's houseboy
Speaker 1: who looked nothing like Ted at all.
Speaker 4: Okay, so maybe a sorority of five drunken men busted
Speaker 4: five nuts and they blamed it on Ted and beat
Speaker 4: them whatever was done that night.
Speaker 1: Well, Nita is the only one who says she saw him,
Speaker 1: but she happened to be at a fucking party till
Speaker 1: three am. Well, and they're saying she was sober and
Speaker 1: she could remember everything. My fucking ass, there's no way.
Speaker 3: But then under I don't know what you call it, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but it's like it's.
Speaker 1: Got another name, cast life regression.
Speaker 3: Yeah, regressive hypnotherapy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would assume she's fucking all of a sudden
Speaker 4: saying that it looks like the sorority houseboy. So just
Speaker 4: maybe this was a real crime and Ted had nothing
Speaker 4: to do with it and it was a bunch of
Speaker 4: drunken college kids getting their come uppings.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but so another sorority sister, Carol Johnston,
Speaker 1: was only asleep that night for a total of five
Speaker 1: minutes from three fourteen am until three nineteen am, when
Speaker 1: she was awakened by Anita, the drunk bitch from earlier
Speaker 1: and others coming home from the party. But get this,
Speaker 1: even though she was completely awake all night except for
Speaker 1: five fucking minutes, she didn't see or hear anything out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary. According to her, two bitches getting sodomized
Speaker 1: a room over from her, and she didn't hear a
Speaker 1: peep of a sound all night.
Speaker 3: Really sounds of sodomy silence.
Speaker 1: Like you telling me he's over there raping and sodomizing
Speaker 1: two girls right down from her room. She heard nothing.
Speaker 1: She basically said she was awake all night.
Speaker 4: Maybe he did it from three fourteen to three nineteen
Speaker 4: when she was asleep.
Speaker 1: So within five minutes he rape. That's even more retarded
Speaker 1: that he busted two nuts, raped and sodomized.
Speaker 3: Them five nuts one nut.
Speaker 1: Per Is this really and this is really real? This
Speaker 1: is what we're really supposed to believe. And why, Like,
Speaker 1: let's say that she isn't like a like a fake
Speaker 1: witness and she's being honest. They were killed somewhere else
Speaker 1: and then brought there or not at all or.
Speaker 3: Not at all, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, you could stage something like this, You could
Speaker 4: kill a bunch of people like this, like you said,
Speaker 4: and just bring in the bodies. But yeah, all the
Speaker 4: details are just a little too murky to line up.
Speaker 1: So the first officers were on the scene by three
Speaker 1: twenty three a m. Just minutes after the surviving, dazed
Speaker 1: and bloodied victims had staggered out of their rooms. The
Speaker 1: officers were quickly joined by a virtual army of city police,
Speaker 1: campus police, and county sheriff's deputies. The streets surrounding the
Speaker 1: house were filled with squad cars, detective vehicles, ambulances, and
Speaker 1: a hearse Nearly forty distraught Sorority sisters were standing around
Speaker 1: in the house, many of them with blood dripping from
Speaker 1: their hands from their efforts to assist the others, and
Speaker 1: joining the fucking circus was actually a bunch of curiosity
Speaker 1: seekers who were literally allowed to enter in fucking rome
Speaker 1: freely around in the house. Needless to say, the crime
Speaker 1: scene was hopelessly compromised before any serious investigation could even begin,
Speaker 1: So essentially, the crime scene was a fucking There was
Speaker 1: no way they were collecting good evidence from that crime scene.
Speaker 1: They have neighbors, they have forty Sorority sisters, they have
Speaker 1: fucking people who are just walking by. Fuck, They're all
Speaker 1: allowed to go in the house and trade around. It
Speaker 1: just seems retarded to me.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's another thing. Since we're blue Choo is
Speaker 1: sponsoring this fucking episode, the Bundy Blue Choo, that's what
Speaker 1: it's called ten percent off with code Bundy's Beehole. So
Speaker 1: key evidence was destroyed at the scene because of the
Speaker 1: shit I just said. There was a bunch of people
Speaker 1: traps in around and the evidence that was preserved tended
Speaker 1: to point away from Bundy as the likely perpetrator, like
Speaker 1: what well, for example, Seeman found in the bed of
Speaker 1: Sheryl Thomas, the fifth victim proved to be from a
Speaker 1: non secretor, effectively ruling out Bundy as the donor. What
Speaker 1: is a fucking non secretor well, non secretor is sperm
Speaker 1: from someone who has a genetic trait that prevents them
Speaker 1: from secreting their blood type antigens into their bodily fluids,
Speaker 1: including jizz. Right, and only twenty percent of men in
Speaker 1: the world are affected by this, so it should have
Speaker 1: narrowed the suspect list considerably and ruled out Ted Beehole.
Speaker 1: That's something that no one talks about. This should have
Speaker 1: been like easy. As soon as they saw that Ted
Speaker 1: didn't have this condition, they should have ruled him out immediately.
Speaker 4: Maybe she came home from a party where she was
Speaker 4: secreted with the non secretor guy.
Speaker 1: But so that would mean that Ted didn't rape them.
Speaker 4: Then, I mean, you can get fucked and then raped
Speaker 4: later in.
Speaker 1: The night, but they the share. So the other victims
Speaker 1: didn't have this same one, but they still attribute Ted
Speaker 1: to raping and murdering all of them.
Speaker 3: I think we just kind of pointed out how impossible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it is impossible. But I mean it doesn't
Speaker 1: stop there, because chewing gum that was discovered in one
Speaker 1: of the victim's hair that could literally have yielded both
Speaker 1: saliva and bitemark evidence was also destroyed, and saliva that
Speaker 1: would have likely been present around an alleged bite wound
Speaker 1: in the butt cheek of another victim was swapped away
Speaker 1: at the scene. I know you're familiar with that, the
Speaker 1: whole bitemark evidence stuff. So they wiped that clean, and
Speaker 1: now it brings us to the elusive bite mark that's
Speaker 1: used in the Kyomega trial. If you guys have kept
Speaker 1: up with true crime stuff at all or watched the
Speaker 1: uh the Zach Effron on Netflix, you'll remember this. But
Speaker 1: the actual bite wound was allegedly photographed at the crime scene,
Speaker 1: but the photos that were later produced in the trial
Speaker 1: were not the originals taken with the medical examiner's camera.
Speaker 1: Why well, it's said that the fucking medical examiner's camera
Speaker 1: somehow malfunctioned. So the photos that were provided are not
Speaker 1: only not the originals, but they are also said to
Speaker 1: be taken and supplied by a quote crime scene specialist
Speaker 1: end quote after the fact, so obviously they are altered photos.
Speaker 1: It's just like when Maryland's body went missing after it
Speaker 1: got to the Morgan then all of her fucking internal
Speaker 1: organs were missing after that, you know how I always
Speaker 1: talk about that shit. So they take the photos of
Speaker 1: the BYTEmark, supposedly the medical examiner's camera fucked up. They
Speaker 1: went back and they basically staged the bite mark and
Speaker 1: took new photos of it with a different camera. What
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Par for the course, And
Speaker 1: it doesn't stop there, because this section of skin that
Speaker 1: contained the incriminating bite mark was excised and placed in
Speaker 1: a saline solution. But wouldn't you know, unfortunately it was
Speaker 1: destroyed in the process. So we don't have the original
Speaker 1: photos of the bitemark, and we don't have the actual
Speaker 1: bitemark itself. Why they felt it was necessary to actually
Speaker 1: cut it out of her butt and put it into
Speaker 1: a solution is beyond me, because if they needed to
Speaker 1: look at it or examine it in any way, they
Speaker 1: would have just left it on her body, right they
Speaker 1: cut They went the extra mile of cutting it off
Speaker 1: and then putting it in a saline solution. But ooopsie,
Speaker 1: that was the fucking acid solution. It's fucking dissolved. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Another inconsistency about the crime scene that was first observed
Speaker 1: by one of the first officers on the scene was
Speaker 1: Ray Cruz. He said that Lisa Levi's body when he
Speaker 1: discovered it was cool to the touch, but according to
Speaker 1: the official version of events, she had supposed to be
Speaker 1: dead for just a few minutes, which would not have
Speaker 1: been long enough for her body to have noticeably cooled.
Speaker 1: So it kind of goes along with the theory that
Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, and maybe all these bitches
Speaker 1: was killed somewhere else and then brought inside the house,
Speaker 1: which would make sense why they have different sperm in
Speaker 1: each of them and nobody heard a fucking noise all night.
Speaker 1: But you know what else is fucking weird. Not long
Speaker 1: after the bloody rampage in Tallahassee, twelve year old Kimberly
Speaker 1: Leech disappeared from Lake City Junior High School in broad
Speaker 1: daylight amid heavy rush hour traffic. Was found two months later,
Speaker 1: completely drained of blood. The cause of death was listed
Speaker 1: as homicidal violence to the neck region. The day after
Speaker 1: her disappearance, coincidentally or otherwise, Ted Bundy's name was added
Speaker 1: to the FBI's ten most Wanted list. At this time,
Speaker 1: there was absolutely no indication that Ted had anything to
Speaker 1: do with the Florida murders. First off, they certainly didn't
Speaker 1: match his mo and secondly, there was no reason to
Speaker 1: suspect that Bundy was anywhere near the state of Florida.
Speaker 1: So why are they It's kind of like, you remember
Speaker 1: the conference, and then like the next couple of days
Speaker 1: they identify him at the park, and then somebody just
Speaker 1: happens to give his name to the police, and then
Speaker 1: he just happens to fucking be able to escape twice.
Speaker 1: Now they just happen to add his name to the list.
Speaker 1: After all these Tennessee or not to see, all these
Speaker 1: Florida murders go down. It's like they know something we don't.
Speaker 3: They know that they're going to pin it on him, right,
Speaker 3: you see.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like they already have this hole. It's
Speaker 1: like the story and Ted Beehole was arrested shortly after
Speaker 1: the Kyomega murders, bearing yet another new name, Kenneth Meisner.
Speaker 1: And wouldn't you like to know? Ted actually spent his
Speaker 1: last night of freedom in a wooded area of the
Speaker 1: Elgin Air Force Base, which is a restricted military facility.
Speaker 1: He had in his car at the time an array
Speaker 1: of credit and identification cards, as well as several photos
Speaker 1: of young girls and young women, So he's able to
Speaker 1: somehow get on a restricted military facility to spend the
Speaker 1: night and pops up with new credit cards, new ID
Speaker 1: and a fucking new fucking name and hello. Seems like
Speaker 1: he was touching base with him before the whole review
Speaker 1: went down. If you ask me, what do you think? Yeah,
Speaker 1: a restricted military facility.
Speaker 4: Really, it's just funny that that information's out there, like
Speaker 4: who reported that?
Speaker 1: I found it on a website and it's also mentioned
Speaker 1: in Program to Kill?
Speaker 4: But why is there a record of him having been there?
Speaker 4: That's the weird.
Speaker 1: Part, because he's I think they asked him where he was,
Speaker 1: and he said Elgin Air Force Base.
Speaker 4: So that's his testimony, I guess, So it.
Speaker 3: Just doesn't fit the rest of the narrative.
Speaker 1: So, while Ted was in Pensacola, they went in to
Speaker 1: basically get some time have a statement from him, and
Speaker 1: he said he wanted to talk without counsel, and they
Speaker 1: interrogated him, and this interrogation was taped, but later on
Speaker 1: Ted's public defenders said that they had been refused entry
Speaker 1: into the interrogation room, that Ted never said he wanted
Speaker 1: to speak without counsel, And it just so happens that
Speaker 1: these tapes that were recorded were conveniently filled with gaps,
Speaker 1: supposedly due to the tape recorder malfunctioning. But it only
Speaker 1: happened to malfunction quote unquote whenever Ted was supposedly making
Speaker 1: incriminating statements, and none of the confessional statements as they're called,
Speaker 1: were recorded, but detectives swore that Ted made them, and
Speaker 1: we're just supposed to take them for their word for it,
Speaker 1: although then basically all the tapes are intact except for
Speaker 1: the part where he's supposedly confessing to the murders. And
Speaker 1: I just thought that was pretty convenient. There were some
Speaker 1: interesting bits of the conversation that were recorded, though, including
Speaker 1: this exchange. A police interrogator said, where'd you get the
Speaker 1: money that you used after your escape to travel across
Speaker 1: the country from and Ted said, while, man, there's other people.
Speaker 1: Other people are in on it, which also reminded me
Speaker 1: of Gazy, who said at nauseum that there were other
Speaker 1: people involved, but nobody takes their word for it. It's
Speaker 1: like they have to be lying. There's no way other
Speaker 1: people are involved in this shit.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, they're willing to say that much, but they're
Speaker 4: not willing to drop names, or if they are, it's
Speaker 4: not part of the public record. There are gaps in
Speaker 4: the testimony. Who knows he could have been saying all
Speaker 4: sorts of shit.
Speaker 3: That's right, if they're real.
Speaker 1: If they're real, and think about it. Who played a
Speaker 1: part in the investigation and prosecution of Ted Bundy. Well
Speaker 1: we have Herb Swindler, the head of the homicide division
Speaker 1: and the father of Bundy's first girlfriend, Kathy Swindler. Then
Speaker 1: we have Daris Swindler, the forensics expert who examined the
Speaker 1: alleged victims remains in Washington. Who happens to be in
Speaker 1: fucking Tallahassee on the night of the Kyle Mega murders
Speaker 1: for no explainable reason.
Speaker 3: What's the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then we have good old Vernon Swindler, who
Speaker 1: was a fucking juror in the fucking Kyle Mega trial.
Speaker 3: Those Swindlers keep swindling us.
Speaker 1: Nothing unusual about that, right, Swindler is a good fucking
Speaker 1: name for this family. Because we have his first girlfriend
Speaker 1: is Kathy Swindler. Her father, Herb, just happens to be
Speaker 1: the head of homicide for Bundy's rampage. Then Daris shows
Speaker 1: up in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders,
Speaker 1: and then Vernon Swindler gets to be a juror on
Speaker 1: the fucking Kyomega trial. So, I mean, that just seems
Speaker 1: so fucking convoluted to me that I don't know why
Speaker 1: people haven't discovered this before. Now, Like, literally, that shouldn't
Speaker 1: even be allowed that his first girlfriend and a juror
Speaker 1: on the Kyomega trial are related.
Speaker 3: Not to mention the other two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about the fact that Ted's defense team included
Speaker 1: a quote unquote jury expert who was actually an Atlanta
Speaker 1: hypnotist named Emil Spillman. And how about the notorious bitemark evidence. Well,
Speaker 1: it was presented to the jury even though, as we
Speaker 1: mentioned before, the actual bite wound itself and the original
Speaker 1: photos had been destroyed. I know what you're thinking, The
Speaker 1: bittemark looked like it matched Bundy, right, I know I
Speaker 1: thought the same thing. And if you're like me, you've
Speaker 1: seen pieces of the trial in documentaries and movies. Do
Speaker 1: you remember in the trial when doctor Richard Soberon said
Speaker 1: this quote, I took models from the casting of Bundy's teeth,
Speaker 1: and I went to the morgue and I pressed the
Speaker 1: models into the buttocks region on different individuals and photographed them.
Speaker 1: He literally said in court that the pictures that they
Speaker 1: were providing that were supposedly Lisa Levi's ass cheek were
Speaker 1: dead people in the morgue, that he took the casting
Speaker 1: and pressed it into the skin to make the mark.
Speaker 1: So that wasn't even the fucking, the fucking pictures that
Speaker 1: they were seeing. Weord Bundy's teeth that had been pressed
Speaker 1: into random dead people's asses. It wasn't even Leeza Levy.
Speaker 4: Well, from what I understand, bite mark evidence, when it's
Speaker 4: in flesh isn't even it'll be the wayside. It's not
Speaker 4: going to be admissible in court because it's not a thing.
Speaker 1: But do you remember I fought you on that because
Speaker 1: I said the bite mark looked like it could match
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy's teeth. Well, that's why it really was Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy's teeth on random dead asses in the Morgue.
Speaker 4: Still, the whole thing, I don't know. I don't think that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you could bite like a piece of wood and get
Speaker 4: a perfect imprint, but you're.
Speaker 1: Talking about swelling and bruising and skin is just different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess so. But even if it I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: even if it was real bitemark evidence and they were
Speaker 1: trying to put those two pieces together, they were doing
Speaker 1: a shit job of it anyways, because they didn't even
Speaker 1: have the actual they destroyed it. So something else that
Speaker 1: was weird to me was the speech the judge gave
Speaker 1: to Bundy at the end of the Kyo Mega trial
Speaker 1: was almost as if he actually felt sorry for him,
Speaker 1: And it never made sense to me if the judge believed,
Speaker 1: as the jury had just convicted him of, he was
Speaker 1: a mass brutal murderer, So why he was so sympathetic
Speaker 1: towards him I really don't understand, and listening back to
Speaker 1: it with a different perspective, it makes more sense, almost
Speaker 1: like the judge knew Bundy had accepted his role as
Speaker 1: the patsy and was going down with the thinking and ship,
Speaker 1: even though it was clear he wasn't the perpetrator. I
Speaker 1: do want to play a clip of this speech he
Speaker 1: gave to ed Bundy. But do you remember it. I'm
Speaker 1: not asking for mercy before.
Speaker 2: I find it somewhat.
Speaker 3: Absurd to ask for mercy for something I did not do.
Speaker 2: So I will be tortured for and will suffer for it,
Speaker 2: and receive the pain for that act, but I will.
Speaker 5: Not share the burden for the guilt.
Speaker 3: This court independent off.
Speaker 2: But in agreement with the Advisor's sentence rendered by the jury,
Speaker 2: it is hereby imposed the death pending upon the defendant,
Speaker 2: Theodore Robert Bundy. I carry yourself, young man.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I say that to you, since if carry yourself, it's
Speaker 2: a tragedy for this court to see. It's such a
Speaker 2: total waste. I think the humanity that I've experienced in
Speaker 2: this court. You're a bright young man. You made a
Speaker 2: good lawyer. I'd love to have you practice in front
Speaker 2: of him, which do you want to know, the white.
Speaker 1: Partner, what did you think of that?
Speaker 4: Well, it's just like you said, it's very theatrical. I
Speaker 4: don't know if it was real, if the judge was
Speaker 4: like sympathetic towards him for the reasons you're saying, or
Speaker 4: if it was just you know, it makes good TV.
Speaker 1: He was like, I'm sorry, partner, you went a different way.
Speaker 4: And yeah, I remember it from the documentary very well,
Speaker 4: where I don't know the guy seemed to like him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you he just got convicted of brutally
Speaker 1: murdering five girls, any which could have been your daughter,
Speaker 1: your sister, or and he's almost like feel sorry for him,
Speaker 1: Like would you give that speech to someone who just
Speaker 1: murdered five bitches? Or like if you thought he was
Speaker 1: innocent and he was going down with a crime he
Speaker 1: didn't commit, that sounded like the speech he got.
Speaker 4: Yeah, either way, it was very dramatic. The documentaries are
Speaker 4: just full of stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But so in January nineteen eighty he was back in
Speaker 1: court to again face murder charges, this time for the
Speaker 1: death of Kimberly Leech. There was virtually no chance of
Speaker 1: him receiving a fair trial, since his name recognition in
Speaker 1: Orange County, where he was being tried, was said to
Speaker 1: have been at ninety eight percent, So.
Speaker 3: All of the jurors.
Speaker 1: Already knew who he was and that he had been
Speaker 1: convicted to death for the Kyomega murders. Then all of
Speaker 1: the states started coming together Utah, Colorado, Washington, fucking all
Speaker 1: these and they were all like it were, it's Ted.
Speaker 1: All of these murders are Ted. And so by the
Speaker 1: time the fucking Kimberly Leech trial came around, everyone already
Speaker 1: wanted Ted to be the bad guy.
Speaker 3: Well where could he have had a fair trial?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No shit, because he was a household name of this.
Speaker 1: He was one of the first ones they ever televised,
Speaker 1: or maybe the first one that was ever televised. I
Speaker 1: think I remember that from the Ted Bundy tapes. He
Speaker 1: was the first televised murder trial in history. So isn't
Speaker 1: that convenient? And then of course he's going to go
Speaker 1: down with Kimberly Leach. So that the evidence that they
Speaker 1: had for the I'm just gonna sum it up. The
Speaker 1: evidence that they had for the trial for Kimberly Leach
Speaker 1: was some fibers they found in a van that Ted
Speaker 1: reportedly stole, but there was no evidence to suggest that
Speaker 1: he ever stole the van. The fibers in the van
Speaker 1: didn't suggest that Ted was ever in there. The fingerprints
Speaker 1: didn't belong to him that were found in the van.
Speaker 1: There was this detective guy who said he saw Bundy
Speaker 1: in the area. But this detect this guy was later
Speaker 1: hypnotized and questioned and it wasn't fucking Ted at all,
Speaker 1: and so they and then during the trial, Ted fucking
Speaker 1: did this theatrical he asked that crazy lady to marry
Speaker 1: him and shit. In the middle of the trial. Everybody
Speaker 1: hated him. They made him out to be the bad guy, right.
Speaker 1: It took the jury forty five minutes to deliver yet
Speaker 1: another death sentence. On February ninth, the second anniversary of
Speaker 1: Kimberly Leech's disappearance, and following the verdict, Ted was sent
Speaker 1: to occupy a cell right next to that of our
Speaker 1: good old friend Otis Tool. So it's like a full
Speaker 1: circle moment for the Cosmic Peach podcast. He uh, he
Speaker 1: was right next to Otis Stool, which actually I never
Speaker 1: knew that.
Speaker 3: I don't think I did.
Speaker 1: So did you have anything to add about Kimberly Leach
Speaker 1: other than the fact that it didn't match his IMO whatsoever.
Speaker 4: Well, it's the one that I talked about before where
Speaker 4: the timing of it was impossible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was another thing.
Speaker 4: He couldn't have done both. I just want to reiterate
Speaker 4: on that fact, because if he was playing below your
Speaker 4: Load five times in fifteen minute, whack them all at
Speaker 4: the fucking chi Omega Sorority, how the fuck was he
Speaker 4: doing this kidnapping in broad daylight and rush hour traffic.
Speaker 4: He couldn't have done both if either.
Speaker 1: And also didn't match his em O. She was way
Speaker 1: younger than all the other victims, she was drained of blood,
Speaker 1: she was sounds.
Speaker 3: More like a lot of the cult shit that was
Speaker 3: going on. Uh huh, then, uh huh.
Speaker 1: But he's the bad guy. They've televised it, they put
Speaker 1: him on the ten most wanted list. It has to
Speaker 1: be him because that Ted's the bad guy, and this
Speaker 1: is the bad.
Speaker 4: Guy of the story, Theodora Patsy Bundy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and throughout the nineteen eighties, long long after Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy had been locked up and tossed out, women continue
Speaker 1: to vanish in and around the Seattle area, as many
Speaker 1: as one hundred of them by some counts, many of
Speaker 1: them underage, and just like that, we got a new
Speaker 1: bad guy with a bitch and moniker. As these killings
Speaker 1: were attributed to the so called Green River Killer, who
Speaker 1: has never been caught to this day. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of like we were saying with Zodiac. As Zodiac was
Speaker 1: fizzling out, Ted Bundy was actually on a plane to
Speaker 1: San Francisco, spent some time there, then comes back and
Speaker 1: becomes Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy gets locked up, and just
Speaker 1: like that, we have the Green River Killer.
Speaker 3: And then Dahmer around the corner.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I don't know what you think about this,
Speaker 1: but it's seeming to be an actual fucking pattern.
Speaker 4: Life is nothing but Netflix, and we get a new
Speaker 4: series and when one ends, the next one begins.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny, I haven't really watched that much
Speaker 1: shit on the Green River Killer, maybe because they never
Speaker 1: caught him. Could the Green River Killer be fucking LinkedIn
Speaker 1: with the Smiley Face killers? Do you think as I
Speaker 1: alluded to with John Wayne Gacy?
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: And also some of those Ted Bundy victims, remember I
Speaker 1: said that they found out they had been kept somewhere
Speaker 1: for a long period of time and then drained of
Speaker 1: blood and all this other shit. It's like all of
Speaker 1: these shits could be Smiley Face in my mind. But
Speaker 1: I do want to say before we move on, that
Speaker 1: we talk a lot, and I've said this before about
Speaker 1: how serial killers are probably like CIA trained, programmed to
Speaker 1: kill and all of this and blah. I do believe
Speaker 1: there are genuine authentic serial killers though, because watching that
Speaker 1: show last night, there's thousands of serial killers that never
Speaker 1: even their names, don't even see the.
Speaker 4: Light of day.
Speaker 1: They're just like, oh, another crazy Stloney and then that's it.
Speaker 4: It's like we've talked about throughout this entire thing, the
Speaker 4: phenomenon itself could have been orchestrated intentionally, or it could have.
Speaker 3: Been you know, controlled blowback.
Speaker 4: But you get all these kids in these military preschool
Speaker 4: bases that go through satanic ritual abuse, some of them
Speaker 4: are going to become serial killers. It doesn't take much
Speaker 4: to push damaged kids over the edge.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, and some people might be able to take this
Speaker 4: abuse without just fall on fucking exploding and going crazy.
Speaker 4: Many probably can't. So to say that every single one
Speaker 4: of these things.
Speaker 3: Is a syop. I mean that's a little naive in my.
Speaker 4: Opinion, And you know, some people probably think I'm naive
Speaker 4: for saying that some of it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's definitely something though. It has
Speaker 1: a pattern, and I think the ones that get like
Speaker 1: these bitch and monikers and shit are the ones like
Speaker 1: Son of Sam and then fucking Zodiac and fucking you know,
Speaker 1: those are the ones that we should yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but night ser night stalker. Uh huh. I do want
Speaker 1: to take a minute kind of switching gears and talk
Speaker 1: about the phenomenon of the collectors. And there are actually
Speaker 1: quite a few. One of our favorite collectors is is
Speaker 1: uh Jeff, but there are a couple other ones that
Speaker 1: never really get mentioned a lot, and I just wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about them briefly before we get into the
Speaker 1: Dahmer stuff, if that's okay with you. So uh. This guy,
Speaker 1: Leonard Lake was a collector. He started collecting in the
Speaker 1: San Francisco area in July nineteen eighty four. Bob Burdella
Speaker 1: was also a collector. He started collecting in Kansas City, Missouri,
Speaker 1: also in July nineteen eighty four. Gary Heidnik was another collector.
Speaker 1: And he started collecting in Philadelphia in November nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1: But out of all of them, it seems Jeffrey Dahmer
Speaker 1: is probably the best known of all the collectors, and
Speaker 1: he started collecting in Milwaukee in nineteen ninety, around the
Speaker 1: same time that her Bowmeister started collecting in Indianapolis. And
Speaker 1: so the phenomenon of the collectors is these people who
Speaker 1: have the fetish like Jeff where they just keep bodies
Speaker 1: and they're usually gay. They keep bodies of men and
Speaker 1: boys for a long periods of time and they do
Speaker 1: weird shit with them. And actually her Bowmeister gay was
Speaker 1: taking boys back to his house, strangling them with a
Speaker 1: pool hose and then keeping their bodies around. And I
Speaker 1: found out about him through watching an episode of Ghost
Speaker 1: Adventures because they the people who moved into her Baumeister's
Speaker 1: house that it's haunted as shit. But a lot of
Speaker 1: these names, Bob Burdella, Gary Heidnik, I mean, maybe Leonard Lake,
Speaker 1: I have maybe I had heard about him in passing before,
Speaker 1: but they were just as bad as Jeff and I
Speaker 1: don't think people talk about him much. And two of
Speaker 1: them started up in the same year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like Phase two point zero of Program to Kill.
Speaker 4: You got these guys popping up on the West Coast
Speaker 4: in the sixties and seventies, and now it's moving to
Speaker 4: the Midwest and it's on the whole new breed of
Speaker 4: serial killers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of want you to watch. I doubt
Speaker 1: you will, but I kind of want you to watch
Speaker 1: the Ghost Adventures when they go to her Baumeister's house.
Speaker 3: You can give me the cliff notes.
Speaker 1: Man, they was catching some shit. They was catching some shit.
Speaker 1: You would think of place like that, like if Jeff's
Speaker 1: Dahmer's fucking apartment complex was They tore it down, but
Speaker 1: if it was still up and you could go visit
Speaker 1: in there, don't you feel like that would be a
Speaker 1: fucking haunted motherfucker. He had to have opened the portal
Speaker 1: tom shit.
Speaker 4: Well, he had killed many there and he had an
Speaker 4: altar mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Do you think that by doing stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You can sure for the sake of argument? Why not?
Speaker 1: Why for the sake of argument, Because.
Speaker 4: I as far as metaphysical paranormal stuff goes.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 4: You're not into it, No I am, but I'm not
Speaker 4: willing to like say I know how this shit works.
Speaker 1: Okay, but do you remember can I say about your DMT? Sure,
Speaker 1: do you remember when you told me and you took
Speaker 1: DMT that like you felt your body like pop up out,
Speaker 1: you popped up out of your body and you went
Speaker 1: into like another like you don't feel like somebody dying
Speaker 1: and going through that process over and over and over
Speaker 1: again in the same room would cause like some portal
Speaker 1: activity to open up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it said.
Speaker 4: For the sake of argument, I'm willing to say that's all.
Speaker 1: Possible, because like, don't you get like a huge DMT
Speaker 1: rush when you die, and like supposedly.
Speaker 3: That's that's what they say.
Speaker 1: Like how many people died in these horrible like drilled
Speaker 1: holes in their skull and shooted acid in there and
Speaker 1: fucking he was making pull pork sandwiches out of fucking
Speaker 1: people's asses and shit and like feeding it to people.
Speaker 1: Like all that shit went down in a one bedroom
Speaker 1: apartment he was. There's no way that if you walked
Speaker 1: in there you'd probably get the fucking chill.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean you're saying that place was torn down,
Speaker 4: That area.
Speaker 1: A playground on top of it.
Speaker 3: Go sit in a swing what you feel there?
Speaker 4: You can't just get rid of that kind of energy
Speaker 4: by tearing the building down.
Speaker 1: I know, right, So you go down the slide, didn't you.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe you're gen boys over at ghost Hunting Adventures
Speaker 4: or whatever the fuck go sit in a swing set
Speaker 4: with their little.
Speaker 3: Particle reader and thing E is that the Ghostbusters use?
Speaker 3: See what he sees?
Speaker 1: But so briefly touching on some connections between the collectors,
Speaker 1: Heidnick was military, and actually, in January nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer joined the US Army and requested that he
Speaker 1: be trained as a military policeman.
Speaker 3: Everybody's favorite people in the military is in the.
Speaker 1: MP, but the army opted to send him to Fort
Speaker 1: sam Houston near San Antonio, Texas for training as a medic.
Speaker 1: When that training was completed, he was sent to an
Speaker 1: army hospital in West Germany to work as an orderly
Speaker 1: But I guess I didn't work out too well, and
Speaker 1: Jeffrey was released early with an honorable discharge. And he
Speaker 1: also returned with a craving for drinking fucking blood bags
Speaker 1: and human meat spaghetti. So I don't know what the
Speaker 1: fuck they had going on with the fucking military shit.
Speaker 1: But if we're sticking with program to kill. What are
Speaker 1: your thoughts.
Speaker 3: On that connection.
Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot of people over in Germany who
Speaker 4: like human meat spaghetti. Well, they went missing and it
Speaker 4: was I've seen other podcasters and investigative journalists try to
Speaker 4: say that some of this stuff happened when Dahmer was.
Speaker 1: Stationed there, got the fuck up.
Speaker 4: And I can't cite any of that off the top
Speaker 4: of my head. It's kind of like The.
Speaker 3: Clown and the Candy Man. I know, I listened to it.
Speaker 1: I was lucky there's a podcast on it.
Speaker 3: I've heard other people talk about this. I want to
Speaker 3: see a cool fucking thing.
Speaker 4: I want to say Jay Diren might have been one
Speaker 4: of them. He's the one that talked about the Clown
Speaker 4: and the Candyman. But there's people who do speculate that
Speaker 4: he really did start this shit over in Germany when
Speaker 4: he was in the military, and then he came back
Speaker 4: here and they set him loose.
Speaker 1: That's a brilliant theory. Another connection between the collectors would
Speaker 1: be that jeffries hometown of bath, Ohio was just fifteen
Speaker 1: miles from Bob Burdella's hometown of Cuyahoga Falls, which kind
Speaker 1: of seems odd that two collectors would be just fifteen
Speaker 1: miles apart from each other. Bob Burdella, by the way,
Speaker 1: was a World War Two veteran and a member of
Speaker 1: the Knights of Columbus, So we have another military connection
Speaker 1: not only with Heidnik, but with Burdella and Jeffrey, and
Speaker 1: Bardella and Dahmer were only fifteen miles apart from each other.
Speaker 1: Before we move on, I'm from Ohio. I've been to
Speaker 1: all parts of Ohio. I don't know where the fuck
Speaker 1: jeff got his accent from.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a weird amalgamation of accents. It almost sounds
Speaker 4: like Canadian or North Dakota Minnesola, DA.
Speaker 1: But doesn't it make you wonder if even his backstory
Speaker 1: is not all the way because well, he doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like he's from Ohio.
Speaker 4: His backstory is very interesting, and you know, it's one
Speaker 4: of those things that I first got into in this
Speaker 4: whole realm, and it's very dexter like, like his dad
Speaker 4: knows he's got him enemy, thinks he can channel it
Speaker 4: into taxidermy. And I remember thinking that out of all
Speaker 4: these people, Dahmer had the most quote.
Speaker 3: Unquote normal upbringing when he really did not.
Speaker 4: And I mean they even talk about some of his
Speaker 4: dad's testimony in some of the movies and documentaries where
Speaker 4: his mom was like on a plethora of psychiatric drugs
Speaker 4: when she was pregnant with them, and she never really
Speaker 4: loved him. He didn't get the physical affection that is required.
Speaker 1: For a kid. Yeah, but I mean he almost said
Speaker 1: it like he'd be like, I'm going to the bar,
Speaker 1: Like that's not an Ohio accident.
Speaker 3: No, it's like Midwest Canadian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like Ted Bundy with no birth certificate.
Speaker 1: Where the fuck did Jeff really come from?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: His dad doesn't sound like that, and neither does his mom.
Speaker 1: They don't say bar. I don't know.
Speaker 4: So he sounds like he's from Fargo the movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he sounds like fucking or.
Speaker 3: What's the other one we just watched the other.
Speaker 1: Night, Grandma's Grandma's Boy, Uh with the Bucky Bucky Lawrence Larson,
Speaker 1: Bucky Larson.
Speaker 4: Nick Swartzen talks like Dahmer in that movie. Yes, and
Speaker 4: he's from Iowa.
Speaker 1: His bomb and his dad don't sound like that. So
Speaker 1: where the fuck did he pick that up from? Bar?
Speaker 3: Some people just talk weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know. He was like I wanted to make an.
Speaker 4: Author I wanted to worship Satan A.
Speaker 1: I watched The Exorcist, and then I went to the bar.
Speaker 3: Not the Exorcist, the Exorcist part tool.
Speaker 1: So. Jeff was born in nineteen sixty, the son of
Speaker 1: a research chemist with PPG Industries. His father, Lionel Dahmer PhD,
Speaker 1: admitted that he, as a boy, had been fascinated with
Speaker 1: fire in the art of bomb making, and recalled that
Speaker 1: at thirteen he had wanted to hypnotize a girl so
Speaker 1: that he could control her entirely. Lionel Dahmer also.
Speaker 3: Said, who hasn't wanted to do that?
Speaker 1: I mean, you do stop. Lionel also said that Jeff
Speaker 1: had been molested at the age of eight by a
Speaker 1: neighborhood boy. So do you think Dahmer's dad was into
Speaker 1: some weird shit. I mean, he's this PhD guy who
Speaker 1: wants the rape girls, it sounds like, and is fascinated
Speaker 1: with bombs. He is working as a research chemist with
Speaker 1: some weird company. And this is how Jeff turns out.
Speaker 4: Well, it seems like with Lionel's testimony and some of
Speaker 4: the stuff you've seen in the fictional.
Speaker 3: Recreation of all this story.
Speaker 4: He tends to blame himself on what level we don't know,
Speaker 4: Like if he feels like he passed some shit on
Speaker 4: to Jeff or he didn't handle his fascination with death
Speaker 4: in the right way, but.
Speaker 3: He's stuck by him till the end.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did, and he did kind of take on
Speaker 4: some kind of like responsibility for how he turned out.
Speaker 4: I don't know how deep that could go. You'd have
Speaker 4: to talk to the guy. He's probably dead.
Speaker 1: Now, do you think he is?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I know he was.
Speaker 4: He was alive recently, but it's been some years.
Speaker 3: Hold on, let's just.
Speaker 1: Look it up. You want me to just look on
Speaker 1: my phone.
Speaker 4: He died December fifth, twenty twenty three, so he's been
Speaker 4: dead for about a year.
Speaker 1: That's recent, Jeffrey Or I mean, Lionel rip.
Speaker 4: I thought I remember hearing he died recently.
Speaker 3: That's why I wanted to.
Speaker 1: Look that up, so to kind of sum up what
Speaker 1: I have for the Dahmer stuff real quick, just not
Speaker 1: all of the Dahmer stuff. But one of the things
Speaker 1: that caught my attention was while on a senior class
Speaker 1: trip to Washington, d C. Jeff made a call from
Speaker 1: a pay phone, and then announced to his high school
Speaker 1: classmates that he had secured them an appointment to visit
Speaker 1: the office of the Vice President of the United States.
Speaker 1: His friend thought he was fucking around, but somehow, fucking
Speaker 1: Jeff actually did lead them on a tour of various
Speaker 1: offices in the White House. And it's never been fucking
Speaker 1: explained how the aspiring serial killer had established such impressive
Speaker 1: contacts in Washington. And it also has never been revealed
Speaker 1: who the fuck it was that Dahmer called that day
Speaker 1: to arrange the impromptu private tours. I thought that was odd.
Speaker 1: It's mentioned in documentaries, but it's almost to kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: Jeff was a fun guy. Jeff, fucking look what he
Speaker 1: did this one time? They want to went on a
Speaker 1: school trip and he got a fucking tour of the
Speaker 1: White House. Are we just gonna breeze by that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Who the fuck is Jeff to get that set up?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: It makes me think of Gasey with Evelyn. Evelyn Carter's wife,
Speaker 4: Jimmy Curters was, Oh, yeah, Rosslyn, I think it's I
Speaker 4: wanted to say he uh had a photo with her?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well that's who would have been in office when
Speaker 3: Dahmer was a senior in Nurist.
Speaker 1: The fuck up.
Speaker 3: Think about it.
Speaker 4: He was born in nineteen sixty, right, so in nineteen
Speaker 4: seventy eight he would have been eighteen. Carter is seventy
Speaker 4: six to eighty, so it would have been the same
Speaker 4: administration that was.
Speaker 1: So you're saying Dahmer and Gaysey knew this, bitch, I
Speaker 1: don't know he got them a tour.
Speaker 3: I don't know who we talked to.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Gaysey knew her well enough to get a photo with her.
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean heknewer at all.
Speaker 3: It means he could have.
Speaker 1: But well, who the fuck do you think Jeff called
Speaker 1: that day? I don't know he took him on a
Speaker 1: tour of the fucking vice president's fucking office. Never says
Speaker 1: who we talked to, but that you're saying that would
Speaker 1: have been the first lady though.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if if he was on a senior class trip,
Speaker 4: he was either seven teen or eighteen, right, most seniors,
Speaker 4: so that would have been seventy seven or seventy eight.
Speaker 4: I think he was a senior high school and that was. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that was the Carter administration.
Speaker 1: The Carters Man but so there is actually a ton
Speaker 1: more jeff stuff that is just completely absurd and profound.
Speaker 1: And to continue listening to the bonus Jeffrey Dahmer material,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need to go over to the cosmic Peach Patreon.
Speaker 1: The bonus Jeffrey Dahmer blood Ties episode will be released
Speaker 1: next Saturday on Cosmic Peach Patreon, and so if you
Speaker 1: want to hear more, you can go over there and
Speaker 1: check it out. This subscription is called Room two three seven.
Speaker 1: You can find it by just going to Patreon and
Speaker 1: looking for Cosmic Peach podcasts. But thanks to everyone who
Speaker 1: has listened to this entire series, I feel like we
Speaker 1: crash and Colby, would you do the honors of letting
Speaker 1: the listeners know where they can find you.
Speaker 4: I have two podcasts, Conspiracy Playtime, and you can find
Speaker 4: that anywhere any of the podcast apps. And Disinfobation is
Speaker 4: a real fucked up show that I do with another
Speaker 4: fucked up guy named.
Speaker 1: Dusty, which is also available on cosmic Peach Patreon. So
Speaker 1: if you subscribe, you'll be getting all the bonus stuff
Speaker 1: like the bonus blood Ties episode and Disinfobation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that one you can find anywhere except for
Speaker 4: the people that have banned us, so good luck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's vulgar.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having me, Julia, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me. And if you guys like this series,
Speaker 1: if you want to hear more from Colby, you can
Speaker 1: leave a comment or something like that let us know
Speaker 1: what you think of the Blood Tie series. I have
Speaker 1: a few episodes coming out for the Cult that are
Speaker 1: unrelated to any series or anything like that. They're going
Speaker 1: to be kind of random episodes for the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks and then we'll be back at it, probably
Speaker 1: at some point in January or February with another new series.
Speaker 1: But until then, there is one very important, vital piece
Speaker 1: of information I need you to learn, just as soon
Speaker 1: as humanly possible.
Speaker 3: Pull a strange when you're a strange. H faces, look uglue.
Speaker 5: When you're a lone, because I wanted to keep them
Speaker 5: with me. And as my obsession grew, I was saving
Speaker 5: body parts such as skulls and skeletons, and eventually I
Speaker 5: did turn to cannibalism. Uh No, there are times when
Speaker 5: I still do still do have the old.
Speaker 3: Convulsions amazing all the time that I should have been caught.
Speaker 1: I never was.
Speaker 4: Do you think that maybe when in long.
Speaker 5: That's what I deserve. I deserve death.
Speaker 1: Corones. Yes, kay, thank you, hum.
Speaker 3: Oh delivery real better not.
Speaker 4: Professor of conspiracy count conspiracy. I put the count in conspiracy?
Speaker 3: What what in the count?
Speaker 1: Will you count me down?
Speaker 4: In?
Speaker 3: Single? CoA thrill?
Speaker 4: Today's those a Oh no?
Speaker 1: What are you doing, babe?
Speaker 3: I think it was gonna be a left.
Speaker 1: What it's funny about that? What was I even saying? Hopefully?
Speaker 1: What did I say?
Speaker 3: Ah? Straight over?
Speaker 1: I don't even know what. Start from the top.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the way you're gonna get a good flow.
Speaker 4: I'll stop making noises, maybe like Peter Giffon and I'm
Speaker 4: just gonna see her and make bad noises.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say something important.
Speaker 3: Think about it, and I want'll help you remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, it does give me one last part? What
Speaker 1: sorry I forgot I put the strong written.
Speaker 3: Beans.
Speaker 1: So actually my question too.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 1: Got you.
Speaker 4: That? Come discutter yourself for a second, because you're gonna
Speaker 4: just keep doing this.
Speaker 3: You just gotta get out the giggles. Thick of minds.
Speaker 3: It's dancing on the street. Stump the redwood tree.
Speaker 1: Stumps Okay, you look so hot in your fucking splitter profile.
Speaker 1: Pick I would eat your ass like Jeffrey Dahmer. The
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Jeffrey Dahmer Walking Tour is in Cream City. Really,
Speaker 1: there's no irony in that.
Speaker 3: It's gruesome.
Speaker 4: You get to walk the streets where you poach seven
Speaker 4: of It's bit victims.
Speaker 1: You know there are Sichos that are fucking you know.
Speaker 1: I'll probably take the tour wor you got any coffee left?
Speaker 3: He was just sick, sick. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4: H m hm
Speaker 1: H