Speaker 1: This is Scott Cleland, executive director of Restore US Institute,
Speaker 1: and we exist to bring accountability to protect people online
Speaker 1: from online harms. And I'm so appreciative to be have
Speaker 1: they done on with Doctor Sky and had the Doctor
Speaker 1: Sky Experience here on Talk Radio WABC.
Speaker 2: And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to the Doctor Sky
Speaker 2: Experience art exclusively here on Talk Radio seventy seven WABC,
Speaker 2: hailing from New York City and around the world special
Speaker 2: thanks to our producer Richard Dugan. Doctor Sky Experience for
Speaker 2: the longest time has great interviews from the realms of astronomy, space, aviation,
Speaker 2: and oather with celebrity guests in the mix, and also
Speaker 2: common sense interviews about our American heritage and exceptionalism. And
Speaker 2: today we'll be talking with Scott Cleland, Founder, executive director
Speaker 2: and board member of Restore US Institute. They can be
Speaker 2: found on the worldwide Web at Restore Usinstitute dot org.
Speaker 2: A little background on our special guest, Scott Cleveland has
Speaker 2: thirty years of relevant professional expertise in US internet policy
Speaker 2: and technology. In nineteen ninety two and ninety three, he
Speaker 2: served as Deputy United States Coordinator International Communications and Information
Speaker 2: Policy the hw Bush administration and received a US State
Speaker 2: Department Superior Honor Award. Two thousand and two to fourteen,
Speaker 2: the US State Department of Advisory Committee covering International and
Speaker 2: Net Policy reappointed him to serve several two year terms.
Speaker 2: He has testified under oath before eight different US Congressional
Speaker 2: subcommittees on communications and Internet issues, total of sixteen times.
Speaker 2: We're here today to talk with him about his institute.
Speaker 2: We're also here to talk about declaring independence, that is,
Speaker 2: from technological problems and tyranny. Scott, welcome to the Doctors
Speaker 2: Guy experience. Appreciate your time today, and if you begin,
Speaker 2: please by telling us a little bit more about your
Speaker 2: passion as you had the founder and executive director board
Speaker 2: director for Restore US Institute, which is to restore humanity online.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Steve for having me on. I've had
Speaker 1: a passion for this for about four years. I've been
Speaker 1: doing Internet policy and things related over for about thirty years.
Speaker 1: But essentially I realized as a researcher and an analyst
Speaker 1: that no one had pulled together as I tried to
Speaker 1: search for it. Essentially, the systemic adverse effects of the Internet.
Speaker 1: You know, and we know there from the tech clash
Speaker 1: and from other things. We know there are a lot
Speaker 1: of big Internet problems, but they hadn't been aggregated and
Speaker 1: they hadn't been studied. So I developed what I called
Speaker 1: macro internetics, which is like macroeconomics is to economics. And
Speaker 1: when you look at the Internet, you know, globally and
Speaker 1: nationally as a system, you realize. And I was drilling
Speaker 1: down for a couple of years and really understanding the
Speaker 1: cause and effects of what it does and real briefly,
Speaker 1: I'll just summarized kind of what I realized is the
Speaker 1: main dynamic was Internet policy, which was promoting anarchy. It
Speaker 1: was an absence of government policy, and it was promoting
Speaker 1: approved anarchy online on autopilot. And then the technology itself
Speaker 1: was doing something unusual and being a peer to peer
Speaker 1: network and promoting peer to peer network. Those are non reciprocal,
Speaker 1: so essentially they were What we discovered is it is
Speaker 1: essentially contra miscounter everything else because most everything you know
Speaker 1: in society or in the economy, in security in your
Speaker 1: life is reciprocal, meaning you involve somebody else or something else,
Speaker 1: and it's a back and forth where it requires more
Speaker 1: than one person and on the internet P two P
Speaker 1: doesn't require anybody but one person, and it's self governing,
Speaker 1: self executing. It's autonomous, and it's permissionless, and so you
Speaker 1: create they're a different dynamic. You know, non reciprocal tends
Speaker 1: to be a moral and then there is a sense
Speaker 1: that there's no right and wrong. And so those two
Speaker 1: underlying ideas and concepts tell us a whole lot about
Speaker 1: why the Internet has so many problems will continue until
Speaker 1: it's fixed.
Speaker 2: Well, we're glad to have somebody like yourself talking about
Speaker 2: this because you know, I'm going to go backwards here
Speaker 2: a little bit. In the marketing and capitalist world, everybody
Speaker 2: out there, here's all these deals from all these different
Speaker 2: cell phone providers about get these lines, pay this amount
Speaker 2: of money. You know, everybody's willing. It seems nobody's really
Speaker 2: questioning about the dangers of the Internet. That's why I
Speaker 2: think it's important. You know, parents out there have some
Speaker 2: severe concerns, many parents, as you know very well, about
Speaker 2: what their children are able to see on the internet,
Speaker 2: how the Internet is governed. But if you don't mind,
Speaker 2: can you take us back in time when the Internet
Speaker 2: really got it start. I asked this question of many
Speaker 2: other professionals, and I get some vague answers, and not
Speaker 2: to knock them. In your opinion, when did the Internet
Speaker 2: really come about for the useful usefulness even in the beginning,
Speaker 2: what year would you say, we're really talking about the
Speaker 2: inception of people in a large scale usage.
Speaker 1: On a large scale. I mean the idea was first
Speaker 1: started in nineteen seventy four where they devised it, but
Speaker 1: it was probably nineteen one ninety two ish timeframe when
Speaker 1: the National Science Foundation privatized the Internet, and that's when
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of a gold rush for
Speaker 1: a bunch of companies trying to be the first service
Speaker 1: providers Internet ISPs, Internet service providers. So that's you know,
Speaker 1: the before the Telecom Act from ninety two to about
Speaker 1: ninety six was you know, that was really kind of
Speaker 1: the time when it became something and people started to
Speaker 1: talk about it. But even in nineteen ninety six when
Speaker 1: it was you know, kind of given you know, this
Speaker 1: unfettered by federal regulation and state regulation policy that allowed
Speaker 1: it to grow and allowed it to have built out
Speaker 1: the Internet really quickly, and that was it worked for
Speaker 1: the first five or ten years, but interesting that time,
Speaker 1: just to give a help help people understand. In nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six, when they made that policy and it was
Speaker 1: really starting to come mainstream, there was only one Senator
Speaker 1: that used the Internet ever, and there were only a
Speaker 1: few percent of Americans that used it for an average
Speaker 1: of thirty minutes a month.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: So in the Internet and back then where they set
Speaker 1: the policy that has been run for twenty five years,
Speaker 1: it was based on a very small subset of insight
Speaker 1: or experience, and at that time, it was like an
Speaker 1: electronic bulletin board. That's what it was that did it
Speaker 1: real well, and that's essentially what the dot com you
Speaker 1: know bubble did. It just created a whole lot of
Speaker 1: you know, websites that were looking for views. And I
Speaker 1: also back then was the first to kind of publicly
Speaker 1: tell investors that it was a bubble that was going
Speaker 1: to burst because they had hyped it that it was growing,
Speaker 1: that Internet traffic was growing ten to twelve times back
Speaker 1: than my research and others knew was actually happening.
Speaker 2: Well, we're glad to have people like yourself discussing this
Speaker 2: as we get into the real problems, you know, the
Speaker 2: real serial issues. Here a recent op ed column that
Speaker 2: you've had here in town Hall, I think described some
Speaker 2: of this in a synthesis way, and it's described here
Speaker 2: and people can of course look at it or check
Speaker 2: it out. A declaration of independence from unchecked technological tyranny.
Speaker 2: That's a lot to say if you had to do
Speaker 2: a speed class on repeating. But I'm sure the content
Speaker 2: of what we're going to hear is good. But before
Speaker 2: you jump into that, help me out there, because I'm
Speaker 2: always one who likes to be a good listener as
Speaker 2: a host, not necessarily the one who just blow fates.
Speaker 2: And you know that's why we have great guests. But
Speaker 2: I have to ask this question before we move forward,
Speaker 2: where and what is the governance when the Internet started?
Speaker 2: I mean it's global or was it actually here in
Speaker 2: the United States? Because I've never got another answer to
Speaker 2: a good answer to that. Tell us who is the
Speaker 2: governance originally on this whole internet, if there even was
Speaker 2: at all one one at all?
Speaker 1: Well, well, your pointing a finger where it should be pointed,
Speaker 1: and that is is that you know the Internet itself
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six when it was launched, you know
Speaker 1: it is autonomous. You just think it's like it's a
Speaker 1: something that's automated, that just runs itself. Do you know,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't need anything except one thing, which is
Speaker 1: called the root zone file. And the root zone file
Speaker 1: is like a phone book for the Internet. It's the
Speaker 1: thing that has that ties together a URL and an
Speaker 1: IP address with that. And what we did is we
Speaker 1: controlled that root zone file at the Commerce Department and
Speaker 1: had a contract on it for many years, and then
Speaker 1: during the Obama administration at the end they put it
Speaker 1: out so that publicly now and globally it is run
Speaker 1: by i CAN, which is the International Corporation for Assigned
Speaker 1: Names and Numbers, and that is it's been a disaster
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because there's no accountability and so and
Speaker 1: China and some others have had too much hand in it.
Speaker 1: That makes me nervous as well. But when we gave
Speaker 1: up the root zone there, we took the only accountability
Speaker 1: there really was over the global Internet and we handed
Speaker 1: it over and that, in my opinion, was a huge mistake.
Speaker 2: Well, I couldn't bray more, and not just to go
Speaker 2: raw raw America. I mean, there's obviously more stories and
Speaker 2: that's why we have guests like yourself, But I want
Speaker 2: to remind the listeners, you're listening to the Doctor Sky
Speaker 2: experience here with me Steve Gates on talk radio seventy
Speaker 2: seven WABC, New York City and around the world, the
Speaker 2: number one talk radio station here in America. I'm a
Speaker 2: privilege to have our special guests Scott Cleveland. He's the founder,
Speaker 2: executive director, and board director of this organization called Restore
Speaker 2: US Institute. They're located on the web simply Storessinstitute dot org.
Speaker 2: And what do I stand for? The whole motto here
Speaker 2: simply is this restore humanity online. But Scott, please continue
Speaker 2: on this. I can. I never really paid attention, and
Speaker 2: I'm being honest with you in the audience. I kind
Speaker 2: of read it in one of our news reports that
Speaker 2: the what the authority was given over or we lost it.
Speaker 2: But again, let's get into a little bit more here
Speaker 2: in this particular interview of what you've written as an
Speaker 2: op ed in town Hall just recently. Again, the title
Speaker 2: of this particular article of declaration of independence from unchecked
Speaker 2: technological tyranny, lots to say, but as you describe it,
Speaker 2: and I quote unfettered, free and open Internet end quote
Speaker 2: policy originally made sense to nurture a promising nascent Internet experiment,
Speaker 2: but as the past quarter century has proven, a permanent
Speaker 2: trajectory of anarchic impunity to harm others or a mature
Speaker 2: Internet is mindless madness. Translate that into what everybody out
Speaker 2: there needs to know from just that well.
Speaker 1: And the reason I came up with the term mindless
Speaker 1: madness because there wasn't a good word in the English
Speaker 1: language to capture how bad this is. Like on my
Speaker 1: web website restore us Institute dot org, I have the
Speaker 1: mindless madness category and I have like they are the
Speaker 1: ten outcomes when you have a a technology like the
Speaker 1: Internet that everyone does everything everywhere for life, work and
Speaker 1: play on this technology. At the beginning, it was a
Speaker 1: separate place. We kind of, you know, almost worship it,
Speaker 1: and I idolized it and thought about it as this utopia.
Speaker 1: And now it's fully integrated in everything, and so it
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be considered another place. It's it's like another dimension.
Speaker 1: It's like if we have a you know, we have
Speaker 1: our mind, and we have in our soul, we have
Speaker 1: a conscience, and it's another dimension on top of that
Speaker 1: that's an artificial one that tries to replicate most everything
Speaker 1: in the real world. So did that help a little
Speaker 1: bit in under staying that better, Steeve, No, it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely does, And that's why I'm saying this is fascinating me.
Speaker 2: I could go on with you and be a listener
Speaker 2: more than a talker for hours on this very subject
Speaker 2: because it really disturbs me. Scott. You know, I'm just
Speaker 2: one guy whore's billions of people. Now I hear the
Speaker 2: world describes the number of people on the planet, there's
Speaker 2: about eight billion souls. I mean not to say that
Speaker 2: that's too much, too little, or what have you. But
Speaker 2: the problem that I see is now we're going back
Speaker 2: to big tech and we all know, right or wrong,
Speaker 2: what of course Dorsey did with Twitter and just you know,
Speaker 2: censoring people on there that they didn't like for whatever
Speaker 2: reason whatsoever. You know, the big things that go on
Speaker 2: with Facebook describe to us in simpletons. We'll get back
Speaker 2: into the op ed in more detail. But for the
Speaker 2: average family out there, what's some of the precautions that
Speaker 2: you think people need to know about, especially when children are,
Speaker 2: you know, using the internet. What could be the argument
Speaker 2: if teachers are saying, hey, do your homework on the internet.
Speaker 2: There's what no boundary it seems unless parents put controls
Speaker 2: on them. But I talk in the broad sense here.
Speaker 2: What would you tell parents is the biggest issues with
Speaker 2: this technological tyranny?
Speaker 1: Well, I recommend that they really need to restrict access
Speaker 1: to it. Kids should not be on the internet, real
Speaker 1: real young kids, and they and there's huge pressure to
Speaker 1: do it, but they don't need to be. And what
Speaker 1: you'll see is the big tech when they have their
Speaker 1: kids and they send them to private schools or whatever,
Speaker 1: they don't let them use internet technology either. They get
Speaker 1: to know that, they know how addictive, how manipulative it is.
Speaker 1: How you do not I emphasize and do not want
Speaker 1: to wire a young child's brain with in the early
Speaker 1: years because they're so impressionable. And you know, I worry.
Speaker 1: We know what happens like China or in Russia where
Speaker 1: a child grows up five or seven years as an
Speaker 1: orphan and never gets touched or gets hugged or gets
Speaker 1: paid any attention to and they're wired in a way
Speaker 1: where they just don't have the same personal interpersonal skills.
Speaker 1: It's one of the saddest things.
Speaker 2: And would you describe that as transhumanism in a form?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we could go into that dimension,
Speaker 2: but transhumanism is that somewhat relevant to what you're talking
Speaker 2: about here of what the overuse of the internet can
Speaker 2: do to younger people. It changes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always had a heart for the young people,
Speaker 1: you know, a from parents. My kids are grown up.
Speaker 1: But it's that's the thing that disturbs me the most
Speaker 1: about the Internet and Internet policy is we have abandoned
Speaker 1: our children for twenty five years. I mean for five administrations,
Speaker 1: thirteen Congresses, and seventeen Supreme Court justices have neglected to
Speaker 1: protect the American people from online harms and crime for
Speaker 1: twenty five years. And it's it's just unconscionable. I mean
Speaker 1: I should Can I just do a little sidelight here
Speaker 1: to give you.
Speaker 2: A little that's why we want. We want to learn
Speaker 2: from our guests. Yeah, that's what this is about. Go ahead,
Speaker 2: please there.
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court got involved in this in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: There was a Communications Decency Act that was trying to
Speaker 1: protect children from accessing porn. The lawyers found it and
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court found it to be technically poorly written,
Speaker 1: which I agree with, and it that that's that was
Speaker 1: a problem. So they struck down as an as a
Speaker 1: abridgment of adults free speech because it was denying their
Speaker 1: acts that adult access to porn. Well, the Communications Decency
Speaker 1: Act was put in there for a reason to keep
Speaker 1: pornography from kids. And as we know from the research sense,
Speaker 1: it has been rampant and it's gotten you know, children
Speaker 1: or you know, on the average age of being porn
Speaker 1: a way before ten years old. And so you know,
Speaker 1: it's just that's a horrible thing. But they had ten
Speaker 1: parts of that law, but they struck down because once
Speaker 1: you are taking down some of it, they their precedents
Speaker 1: say take down all of it. Well, when they did that,
Speaker 1: something horrible happened, and they haven't fixed it. You know,
Speaker 1: they didn't fix it since. And that was in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six. Section five oh eight was a criminal law
Speaker 1: passed as part of that law that said they created
Speaker 1: criminal penalties for coercing or enticing children for sex or
Speaker 1: sex trafficking for prostitution. Right, they overturned that as and
Speaker 1: when every when the judges over the last twenty years
Speaker 1: interpret it and go back to that thing, they go
Speaker 1: back and look and said, you know, wow, well I
Speaker 1: guess if you you know, if you're going to call
Speaker 1: its free speech to pimp children or try and you know,
Speaker 1: coerce them in that way. That's not freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: That's heinous. That's the one with inhuman and amorl decisions
Speaker 1: I think the Supreme Court has probably ever made so
Speaker 1: for twenty years, Congress nor they got revisited it until
Speaker 1: Congress revisited with the Sex Trafficking Bill in two thousand
Speaker 1: and I think nineteen. Well, I'm trying to tell you
Speaker 1: that's how callous and how bad it has been towards children.
Speaker 1: That and only because I went in and deep dived
Speaker 1: and compared stuff and figured out and then when you
Speaker 1: know I saw it in my research, I almost want
Speaker 1: to cry.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean it's very said, and we're.
Speaker 1: Talking about pending yourself attended. There are millions of countless
Speaker 1: children or fed to predators for the last twenty years.
Speaker 2: That's horrible. I mean, there needs to be a stop
Speaker 2: to this when we have so many issues on the
Speaker 2: table here. But today, once again, welcome to the Ductors
Speaker 2: Guy experience here on Talk Radio seventy seven w ABC
Speaker 2: out of New York City and around the world of
Speaker 2: privilegen honor to have Scott Cleveland. He's involved here as
Speaker 2: the executive director of the Stories Institute dot org, and
Speaker 2: he has an op ed that we're going to little
Speaker 2: slice up a little bit here so we can move
Speaker 2: forward and talk about some ways that people can actually
Speaker 2: hopefully protect themselves in our guest opinion. But it's interesting
Speaker 2: here the op ed town Hall just recently a declaration
Speaker 2: of independence from unchecked technological tyranny. You describe and here
Speaker 2: you go through a number of points. So if you
Speaker 2: could give us the basic synopsis of that op ed,
Speaker 2: just give us some more details from what we need
Speaker 2: to know that we're not paying attention to, from our
Speaker 2: own country and our constitutions that should be enforced here.
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know we're about a year and a
Speaker 1: half ago. I got the idea of using the Declaration
Speaker 1: of Independence because as a way to tell the story
Speaker 1: here and to tell the story in a constitutional way,
Speaker 1: in a way that you know, we you know, the
Speaker 1: Decoration of Independence in seventeen seventy six was hugely influential
Speaker 1: in world history, and the Constitution then grew out of
Speaker 1: it as a few years later. And why I got
Speaker 1: this thought, and I said, because I was dealing with
Speaker 1: big tech problems at the time, and I said, I
Speaker 1: wonder if tyrants were the same back then as they
Speaker 1: are now, and lo and behold. I went and read it,
Speaker 1: and I went, oh, my goodness, there's twenty nine tier
Speaker 1: in these the King George did and then I've come
Speaker 1: up with twenty that are the heart of the Declaration
Speaker 1: of Independence for unchecked technological tyranny. And lo and behold,
Speaker 1: the tyrants of today used the same tricks and the
Speaker 1: same arm twisting that they used two hundred and forty
Speaker 1: years ago. So that's the reason why I did it
Speaker 1: in this format, because also it's important that I wanted
Speaker 1: the government to take it seriously because and we'll get
Speaker 1: to this a little bit later, but because we recommend
Speaker 1: to reconstitute the Constitution, because in nineteen ninety six, the
Speaker 1: constitutional authority was taken away from the Internet, even though
Speaker 1: it was over it from ninety one to ninety ninety five.
Speaker 1: But the reason I tell you it in this context
Speaker 1: is that a lot of bad things have happened, and
Speaker 1: we people tend to think, oh, you know, freedom and liberty,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's the thing it's made America, and
Speaker 1: it has and they think, oh, the Internet came along
Speaker 1: and perfected it. It was like perfect freedom. No no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's what my research is basically found. It has some
Speaker 1: undermined liberty, equality and justice and humanity so much at
Speaker 1: the core, and we are as a as a as
Speaker 1: a people and as a nation are much much worse
Speaker 1: off because of it. I mean to summarize it in
Speaker 1: the op ed where it's said there are three chief
Speaker 1: tyrannies basically losses of freedom that we've had that and
Speaker 1: yet there are more, but these are the ones that
Speaker 1: make it personal for every one of your listeners. Is
Speaker 1: the three are. First, it in humanely prioritizes protecting technology
Speaker 1: over protecting people and children. Second, it's unjustly grants technology
Speaker 1: impunity over people, meaning they can do what they want
Speaker 1: with no risk or punishment, and it unfairly empowers them.
Speaker 1: Technology empowers technology to control and govern people without any
Speaker 1: rights to process or access to justice. And so essentially,
Speaker 1: online you're dehumanized. You know that you're called a user,
Speaker 1: You're not a person like a user, like an addict.
Speaker 1: You're butt and sold as data, you know, or you're
Speaker 1: an avatar. But all of those things are inanimate. You're
Speaker 1: not a human. You know, a living, breathing human that
Speaker 1: bleeds or.
Speaker 2: Bruises or die in good sense, right, And so.
Speaker 1: They treat us like commercial chattel where our personal data
Speaker 1: is bought and sold constantly. Immediately it is we're indentured
Speaker 1: servants because they have all of our data and so
Speaker 1: and we know that there is a you know, we're
Speaker 1: second class citizens. We've had our rights taken away, and
Speaker 1: so we are not the humans we are in the
Speaker 1: real world and online we are humanized and devalued and disenfranchised.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more, my friend. But let
Speaker 2: me ask you this guy. We just had a recent
Speaker 2: guest there on the Doctor skuy EXPERIENCEIALM named Mark Morano,
Speaker 2: and he wrote an interesting book, a rather lengthy book,
Speaker 2: but we got him on to discuss it than we did.
Speaker 2: I think justice to the book and his great guest.
Speaker 2: It's called The Great Rest and obviously weming into the
Speaker 2: Great Reset and how they're changing the whole world. And
Speaker 2: this is a whole global thing. So if we're talking
Speaker 2: about a constitutional standard here for America's you know, the
Speaker 2: users here, how does that fly in the face of
Speaker 2: global governance? Because I would imagine as much as I'm
Speaker 2: a proud American who wants to see what you're talking
Speaker 2: about come true. Where are all the nooks and crannies
Speaker 2: in this from the global side? I mean, it does
Speaker 2: it seems like an even bigger fight, don't you think
Speaker 2: because we here in America want to do this. I'm
Speaker 2: sure we need to control the Internet better in a
Speaker 2: constitutional way. What kind of forces I'm asking you are
Speaker 2: out there that are on that global side for what
Speaker 2: we call global governance? What's saying there is.
Speaker 1: No global governance because the Eland hasn't done anything through
Speaker 1: the International Calcumnications Union, so there is no real governance.
Speaker 1: It's anarchy globally and the rest of the world. Even
Speaker 1: though that we were the leader in internet policy back
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six, and we you know, IBM basically
Speaker 1: was the company, the big company back then, and they
Speaker 1: went and got seventy or eighty countries to buy into
Speaker 1: you know, e commerce and all that. But what sense
Speaker 1: are Almost every other major country has come up with
Speaker 1: their own sovereign or national policy. Sadly, you know, China
Speaker 1: has taken a lead, and their's is a nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: four Orwellian It's not super control, bad thing, and they've
Speaker 1: taught it to like several dozen other autocracies around the
Speaker 1: world have putin that created his own Russian Net and
Speaker 1: it used it as a pretext to go after Ukraine,
Speaker 1: and then the EU, UK the New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Australia.
Speaker 1: Those countries or the EU have basically created put their
Speaker 1: constitution or their way of doing things online, and they
Speaker 1: control it. We are now the laggard and we're the
Speaker 1: only country that I'm big country that is supposed to
Speaker 1: be civilized, that has a wild West Internet. And you know,
Speaker 1: I just shake my head and say when will. That's
Speaker 1: what restore US Institute dot org is all about. We
Speaker 1: are here doing a few things, which is we know
Speaker 1: what the root cause of all the problems are. Because
Speaker 1: if you know the root cause, you know what the
Speaker 1: solution is. And the solution is restoring constitutional authority over
Speaker 1: the US Internet in US policy. And what that does
Speaker 1: is we if you know what is causing the problem,
Speaker 1: you want to undo it. In the same way when
Speaker 1: you remove the constitution, if you want to fix it,
Speaker 1: you put the constitution back in, and then you get
Speaker 1: intended consequences, not the unintended bad consequences over the last
Speaker 1: twenty five years. Right, So, and as a country, we
Speaker 1: need to come together and have a modern, an updated,
Speaker 1: modern policy because right now, when you have a wild
Speaker 1: less policy, it's very primitivist. Why don't we use that term. Well,
Speaker 1: when you take policy is absence of government. Well, before
Speaker 1: we had government, it was primitive. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you had tribal or you had the family that were
Speaker 1: your only protection. But it was might as right law
Speaker 1: to jungle. It was nasty. You know who wasn't Hobbes's
Speaker 1: nasty life was nasty, brutish and short back in you know,
Speaker 1: natural law of all. So we you're right to ask
Speaker 1: about the rest of the countries, but we need to
Speaker 1: take care of us now because everybody else is taking
Speaker 1: care of their people.
Speaker 2: Interesting, and we look at China obviously, you know, I
Speaker 2: was scratching my head from a minute saying, Wow, their
Speaker 2: internet whole policy is run what it's like a great filter.
Speaker 2: I mean I can only imagine can you describe that
Speaker 2: the listeners out there, since many of us have not
Speaker 2: been to China? The people communists, you know, the communist government,
Speaker 2: how do they do that? I mean, they just have
Speaker 2: this massive thing where everything coming in and out of
Speaker 2: China has this massive filter. What don't they allow and
Speaker 2: on the dark side, it looks like they have ultimate
Speaker 2: control there in a different way.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, z went you know, a very you know,
Speaker 1: communist and away from the market that they had for
Speaker 1: a long time, and it's taking them to a very
Speaker 1: much in nineteen eighty four, you know, totalitarian state. And
Speaker 1: just like in Orwell they had the telescreen, they have
Speaker 1: the Internet now and essentially they can track and they
Speaker 1: have thing called social capital where you know, you have
Speaker 1: to you know, spy on your friends and family and
Speaker 1: tell you know, the government if they're doing something wrong,
Speaker 1: and they can they know where you are and what
Speaker 1: you're doing and all. I mean. So it's the worst.
Speaker 1: And you know the other autocracies out there use it
Speaker 1: the same way. Now, we showed them how I mean.
Speaker 1: And you know Snowden back in you know, the guy
Speaker 1: at the NSA who stole event and data, he was
Speaker 1: the one who showed that we were listening to everybody
Speaker 1: and surveilling everybody around the world as well. So we
Speaker 1: lost all credibility internationally when they realized that, you know,
Speaker 1: the Internet wasn't this gift everybody, but it was a
Speaker 1: listening post for us in our NSA.
Speaker 2: You know, you bring up some interesting points here, but
Speaker 2: moving forward, you come up with solutions to the problem,
Speaker 2: not just to talk about it. And I'm very privileged,
Speaker 2: you know, to have you here to talk about this.
Speaker 2: Let's start to have a little conversation about the petition
Speaker 2: that you have up on your website restore us Institute
Speaker 2: dot org and what this means, so that people who
Speaker 2: may be scratching their heads saying, wow, you know, this
Speaker 2: is a big problem, and our special guest Scott is
Speaker 2: telling us all about the dangers of an unfettered Internet
Speaker 2: and what's going on in the past and what we
Speaker 2: need to do. And it usually boils down to what
Speaker 2: can I do as a citizen. So let's get into
Speaker 2: that conversation and talking about the thing that you advise
Speaker 2: people to take a look at and hopefully read it,
Speaker 2: sign it, and then be part of this movement to
Speaker 2: protect our Internet and restore it back to a constitutional
Speaker 2: type of authority. Please carry on. This is exciting.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for that, because it's really helpful.
Speaker 1: I mean, we did put together changed out org. We
Speaker 1: have it in you know, it's explained in kind of
Speaker 1: normal easy language, you know, for the petition changed out.
Speaker 1: Org is the one that does it, you know that
Speaker 1: can do it at the largest scale, and this is
Speaker 1: going to run and tell you know, I it could
Speaker 1: take years, it could be done quickly, but it was
Speaker 1: written as a document in the Declaration of Independence form
Speaker 1: that it is in to be relevant five years from now,
Speaker 1: ten years from now, or fifty years from now. It
Speaker 1: is written to be historically accurate and historically relevant. So
Speaker 1: when somebody looks back and wants to understand, how did
Speaker 1: this all fit together, and how did it happen, and
Speaker 1: how did it fit into democracy and into good government
Speaker 1: and everything. So what we're asking is it's a little bit,
Speaker 1: it's longer than normal than people would normally read. This
Speaker 1: is a very uh, you know, important problem. It is
Speaker 1: one that I already explained how for twenty five years
Speaker 1: both parties have just left it on autopilot to be
Speaker 1: an anarchic and there well we can talk in a
Speaker 1: minute about big tech and all that and prestiege, but
Speaker 1: they until the American public, you know, is interested and says,
Speaker 1: why are my children being fed to the wolves? Why
Speaker 1: are you not protecting us? I mean, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: Russia and China are you know, China has stolen all
Speaker 1: of our intellectual property and our trade secrets, and they've
Speaker 1: broken into almost they stole my security clearance in twenty
Speaker 1: three million other ones. So and then the Russians use
Speaker 1: cybercrime and ransomware, they run it and they you know,
Speaker 1: we're kidnapped constantly by Russia. I mean, we're like a
Speaker 1: third you know, a Banana republic when it comes to
Speaker 1: the Internet. And so this is really serious. And what
Speaker 1: we've done with the declaration is the twenty tyrannies are
Speaker 1: and grievances will help people realize and see this holistically.
Speaker 1: What we're doing is we realize the Internet is holistic,
Speaker 1: the policy is holistic, how it works, it all fits together.
Speaker 1: And if you don't address it and help educate people
Speaker 1: so that they can see how it affects everything. You know,
Speaker 1: culture and society and the economy and markets and the
Speaker 1: security and public safety and raising your children, everything we
Speaker 1: know in life is being affected and disrupted and you know,
Speaker 1: screwed up.
Speaker 2: And so I got to ask you this, So we
Speaker 2: start off with this. In your opinion, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: the most outrageous thing where we're hearing here about this
Speaker 2: ungovernance thing and the non constitutionality of things going on
Speaker 2: on the internet. You know, why is our government so
Speaker 2: asleep on this? I mean you would always imagine it's
Speaker 2: too common sense a thing, and yet you'll bring it
Speaker 2: to our attention. What's been the real problem with this government?
Speaker 2: Who if you want to name names, I mean, who's
Speaker 2: killed this concept in the government up till the present time?
Speaker 2: And why can't we seem to get this thing going
Speaker 2: the way you would think from a common sense standpoint,
Speaker 2: everything you're saying makes sense. Why don't they think that way?
Speaker 1: Now, let me give you the common sense answer and
Speaker 1: you'll go, oh, okay, what do you have? Is on
Speaker 1: the internet? There is one law that's Section two thirty,
Speaker 1: which people have heard about, and that's the thing that
Speaker 1: gives them immunity or impunity to censor. The right calls
Speaker 1: it censorship, the left calls it misinformation. So we know,
Speaker 1: like in civil law or in criminal law, there are many,
Speaker 1: many dozens of crimes or things that you can do wrong.
Speaker 1: Right now, we have section two thirty and it was
Speaker 1: based written for defamation, and so it is telling the world,
Speaker 1: in America, and in America, there's only one crime, and
Speaker 1: there's only one way to look at the law, which
Speaker 1: is defamation. So everything now is looked at as free speech.
Speaker 1: That's nuts. It is a all purpose conduct. It is comprehensive,
Speaker 1: you know, it's criminal behavior, commercial behavior. All of that
Speaker 1: is done on the Internet, and not all of it
Speaker 1: is free speech, but that's the way it's treated. And
Speaker 1: because big Tech knows, they have everybody focused on the
Speaker 1: free speech stuff. Free speech is we could, you know,
Speaker 1: quibble one to five percent of the Internet problems and
Speaker 1: there's ten thousand voices in Washington fighting over the free
Speaker 1: speech aspect, and we're going you don't need us to
Speaker 1: be the ten thous first. We want to be the
Speaker 1: first because we're the only ones right now that's focusing
Speaker 1: on the other ninety nine or ninety five percent, you know,
Speaker 1: the fentinel problem, the cybercrime, the cyber bullying. Because a
Speaker 1: lot of people working on each individual problem, nobody's looking
Speaker 1: at it systemically except what we are. We're trying to
Speaker 1: pull together a coalition. But why it's happened and why
Speaker 1: they can't get over is both sides, you know, the
Speaker 1: left and the right, are completely addicted to the political
Speaker 1: fundraising through through social media and big tech and you know, Facebook,
Speaker 1: they give anger five points and they give likes one point,
Speaker 1: and so they incentivize anger and hate. It's makes some
Speaker 1: more money. And the thing is is both parties make
Speaker 1: so much money online fundraising. They're addicted to it, and
Speaker 1: so they literally the way I describe this, anybody who's watched,
Speaker 1: you know, five or six year olds play soccer, and
Speaker 1: what it is is there might be twenty kids out there,
Speaker 1: but they're all right around the ball and they're all kicking,
Speaker 1: either trying to kick the ball or kicking each other
Speaker 1: in the shin. That is what our two parties and
Speaker 1: Congress and the parties are doing. It's this giant five
Speaker 1: six year old soccer match where they are so bent
Speaker 1: on kicking the ball or kicking the shins of their
Speaker 1: opponents that they're you know, they literally can't come together.
Speaker 1: And because they're so polarized, and if they could just
Speaker 1: look up. The problem is is because of big tech,
Speaker 1: because of the policy, because of the design, we have
Speaker 1: worshiped and put technology and innovation and the Internet as
Speaker 1: an idol that it is worshiped, and they do everything
Speaker 1: possible to protect the technology. And what you'll see in
Speaker 1: our conclusion of the Declaration of independence here is we
Speaker 1: need to restore we the people, people primacy. If you're
Speaker 1: a person of faith, you know that you know people
Speaker 1: are made in the image of God and that they're precious.
Speaker 1: If you're not, you know that people are precious because
Speaker 1: they have human rights and they deserve to be treated
Speaker 1: as human, not as in the animate objects. And the
Speaker 1: thing is is both parties and all of Washington is
Speaker 1: so you know, kind of captured and creatures of the
Speaker 1: technology world that they have forgotten the people. That's why, right,
Speaker 1: this is interesting to go to the people here.
Speaker 2: Right, that's interesting you bring this up because it's not
Speaker 2: a simple blame game of saying, oh, I'm a Republican,
Speaker 2: it's the Democrats and then the Democrats excuse me blaming
Speaker 2: the Republicans. You're telling me this is a systemic problem.
Speaker 2: And the main motivating thing here is you're talking about
Speaker 2: fund raising. Yeah, we forgot about the mother's milk politics,
Speaker 2: So let's ignore the real issues. But we'll carry on
Speaker 2: in the same old way. What so we can generate
Speaker 2: more revenue. So we need to be restoring our Internet
Speaker 2: here with what you're talking about with Restore us into
Speaker 2: Institute dot org. And our special guest today here the
Speaker 2: doctor Skuy Experience. Proud to have him, Scott Cleland. He's
Speaker 2: the executive director of this organization. And again the website
Speaker 2: that you can learn so much more about is Restore
Speaker 2: us Institute dot org. Now, if they want to go
Speaker 2: and look at this declaration, please navigate us through the internet.
Speaker 2: Where can they go and see this and actually read
Speaker 2: it and hopefully agree. And so you go to Restore
Speaker 2: US Institute dot org.
Speaker 1: It's very easy. It'll say it'll say Declaration of independent Petition.
Speaker 1: Click on it. You can read the summary of it
Speaker 1: and you can read the summary part easily and then
Speaker 1: it's you know, another clique can give you the fixed
Speaker 1: page declaration and it, you know, enumerates the grievances. There's
Speaker 1: also we're we're looking for the long term here. This
Speaker 1: is going to you know, take a big effort at
Speaker 1: some time. We call it the mindful Many, and that
Speaker 1: is is that we know that you know, there are Americans.
Speaker 1: You know, the old adage is, you know the only
Speaker 1: thing for evil to triumph over good is for good
Speaker 1: people to do nothing. And I believe there's still a
Speaker 1: remnant and still a lot of Americans that are good people.
Speaker 1: They need to step up and uh, you know, they
Speaker 1: can sign you know, they can learn about it and
Speaker 1: sign the petition, they can join the movement, and they
Speaker 1: can donate. I mean, this is we're trying to start
Speaker 1: something from scratch. We've figured out what the cause of
Speaker 1: the problem is. And it's like any scientist or any
Speaker 1: somebody who's trying to cure a disease or whatever. They'll
Speaker 1: tell if you figure out what's causing it, you can
Speaker 1: cure it. It's easy. A hard thing is knowing what
Speaker 1: you're trying.
Speaker 2: To fix, you know, not learn here. And I hate
Speaker 2: to cut you short, but our time allotment today obviously
Speaker 2: every dictates by the Ploughtcare, even in this particular podcast
Speaker 2: edition that we're doing here and also for broadcasts at
Speaker 2: the future time. But if you could give us in
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes, minute or two, just the summation here,
Speaker 2: the points, and I'd love them to of course go
Speaker 2: to simply restore Usinstitute dot org. Learn so much more
Speaker 2: about what Scott and his organization stands for. And it's
Speaker 2: a real honor to have you here, but you get
Speaker 2: the floor for the next two minutes because thank you.
Speaker 2: That's what our time allotment is today to give us
Speaker 2: a synopsis of why this is important, what people need
Speaker 2: to do well.
Speaker 1: This is something a problem that affects all Americans. So
Speaker 1: threehundred and thirty plus million plus you know everybody out
Speaker 1: there that I'm talking to, either you or you've loved
Speaker 1: ones or people you know are victims of cybercrime, identity, theft,
Speaker 1: cyber bullying, cyber harassment, or the fraud or ransomware. It's
Speaker 1: affected you, and hopefully you will help us help you,
Speaker 1: your loved ones and everyone because we are looking at this.
Speaker 1: Look everybody bleeds, bruises and dies the same way. Like
Speaker 1: for example, one hundred thousand people have died for penteral poisoning.
Speaker 1: It's because of illegal online for our pharmacies ninety seven percent.
Speaker 1: So we help us help you, your children, your everyone
Speaker 1: unless we come together and we can. I mean, when
Speaker 1: people look at what we're asking and saying, if you're
Speaker 1: in the mindful many what we're saying is if you
Speaker 1: believe in the Golden Rule, if you believe in sovereignty,
Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, bill rights, rule of law,
Speaker 1: civil precedence, duty of care, and oath of office to
Speaker 1: the Constitution, human rights. If you believe in those things,
Speaker 1: those are the standards of authority in the United States.
Speaker 1: You're with us. It's not like we're all we're trying
Speaker 1: to do is restore humanity, justice and safety online because
Speaker 1: there's no man, there's no justice. It's awful. And the
Speaker 1: thing is is this can and do it over time
Speaker 1: if enough people are willing to help.
Speaker 2: Yes, Scott, thank you. We'd like to talk about this
Speaker 2: in the future and talk more with you in depth
Speaker 2: on this particular subject in which your organization stands for. Again,
Speaker 2: here of this experience, the Doctor Skuy Experience on Talk
Speaker 2: Radio seventy seven WABC, New York City, proud and around
Speaker 2: the world the number one talk radio station in America,
Speaker 2: and thanks to our producer Richard Dugan for making it happen.
Speaker 2: Great stories here that is doom and normally our theme
Speaker 2: goes to the subject matters of astronomy, space, aviation, and weather,
Speaker 2: celebrity guests in the mix, but let's not forget. The
Speaker 2: Doctor Skuy Experience talks about common sense interviews and experiences
Speaker 2: about our American heritage and American exceptionalism, and that is
Speaker 2: why we had to say it's restore Usinstitute dot org.
Speaker 2: Simply this restore Humanity online. But if you be kind
Speaker 2: of have to stay on the line with us as
Speaker 2: we go to the heartbreak here. I do appreciate your time,
Speaker 2: and ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 2: us here. I hope you're enjoying this and as we
Speaker 2: continue to move through time and space or great gap
Speaker 2: from all these from have a great