Speaker 1: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It's episode two hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1: I'm your host is always George Hobbs, and today we
Speaker 1: are going courtside and then straight into the truth. Our
Speaker 1: guest Chris from Minnesota, a former basketball player who traded
Speaker 1: his playbook for the Book of Truth. Once running drills
Speaker 1: under the bright gym lights, he's now uncovering lies under
Speaker 1: the light of discernment. Chris's journey from slam dunks to
Speaker 1: waking up to the deception of the globe narrative is
Speaker 1: one you won't want to miss. He has the testimony,
Speaker 1: the conviction, and the courage to call out what most
Speaker 1: are too afraid to question. So grab your coffee, open
Speaker 1: your mind, and get ready, because once you see it,
Speaker 1: you can't unsee it. This is the Flat Earth files.
Speaker 2: They still speaking Trustcott, but I sing o Turf go
Speaker 2: by the.
Speaker 3: Sun and Boom came right and.
Speaker 4: Love the last just loves to fly.
Speaker 5: This is the flatter file true. Prosteve p Siene Sleep
Speaker 5: says secrets creep six thousand, Yes, contrue the lie stands dancing.
Speaker 4: The ton time.
Speaker 5: This is the flatter fis true. Fronstap Science Sleep says sigarettes,
Speaker 5: creep say thousand yes, contrue lies, the status dance, and
Speaker 5: the time Sun time.
Speaker 1: Man, We're gonna jump into today's episode. A great guest
Speaker 1: today again joining us from the state of Minnesota. It's Chris. Chris.
Speaker 1: Good morning, sir. How are you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning. I appreciate you UH have me on.
Speaker 3: When I heard the Home Stretch podcast, I was mixed emotions.
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, I totally get why you're
Speaker 3: doing what you're doing and what you need to do.
Speaker 3: But it's been a great run for this podcast and
Speaker 3: so many great guests, and you learn so much, and
Speaker 3: not only from you, but all your guests. So I
Speaker 3: appreciate you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and it's been I felt, in many
Speaker 1: ways spoiled to be able to have this conversation because I,
Speaker 1: like most people out there, don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: people to talk about these type of topics in person.
Speaker 1: Right we have maybe Facebook groups or whether whatever social
Speaker 1: media tool you use to have this kind of conversation,
Speaker 1: but face to face in person, I'm willing to bet
Speaker 1: that most people don't have a lot of people to
Speaker 1: talk Flat Earth with and their journey to the truth
Speaker 1: and I've been blessed to have talked over two hundred
Speaker 1: people over the last few years, and about fifteen more
Speaker 1: as we close the podcast out. So again, thank you
Speaker 1: for your time, and why don't you go ahead and
Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the audience.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, my name is Chris, obviously, I'm from the
Speaker 3: north central part of Minnesota, a little lakes community up here,
Speaker 3: kind of RESORTI beautiful place to live and raise a family.
Speaker 3: I'm a forty six year old father of two beautiful daughters.
Speaker 3: I can't believe they're already almost nineteen. And then my
Speaker 3: other one just turned seventeen last week, So kind of
Speaker 3: coming to the home stretch of raising children and turning
Speaker 3: them out to the lovely world sending my oldest one
Speaker 3: off to college here in August. Beautiful moving day on
Speaker 3: the August twenty third, so going to University of North
Speaker 3: Dakota where it's even colder and windier. So, and then
Speaker 3: my youngest daughter is actually going to be also going
Speaker 3: to the University of North Dakota. She committed to play
Speaker 3: Division one basketball for them as well. So we are
Speaker 3: going to be a und fighting Hawk family for the
Speaker 3: remaining future. So that's kind of cool been married now
Speaker 3: for nearly twenty three years, and in the next two
Speaker 3: weeks it would be our twenty third wedding anniversary. Never
Speaker 3: you know, about ten years ago, you would have never
Speaker 3: thought I would have made it to my twenty third
Speaker 3: wedding anniversary. And I'll kind of get into that a
Speaker 3: little bit. But married to my beautiful wife now for
Speaker 3: nearly twenty three years. And for an occupation, I'm a
Speaker 3: regional sales manager at a medical device company. So the
Speaker 3: reason I wanted to come on this podcast is just
Speaker 3: I kind of see myself as just an average person
Speaker 3: out in the world who happened to kind of catch
Speaker 3: wind of flat Earth and just kind of caught on
Speaker 3: fire for it, and for whatever reason, just kept digging,
Speaker 3: kept digging, kept digging, and really started to find the
Speaker 3: truth and finally became awake. Even after being a Christian
Speaker 3: for X number of years. It's amazing how flat Earth
Speaker 3: can just even bring you closer to Jesus. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, for me personally, growing up, I was raised Lutheran,
Speaker 3: like most probably Minnesotans are. It's a very Lutheran community here,
Speaker 3: Scandinavian Lutheran community, you know, and you just ended up
Speaker 3: checking the boxes and going to church as a kid,
Speaker 3: and I got confirmed, and I was baptized as a baby,
Speaker 3: and you just do all the box checking that you do,
Speaker 3: and so I just I don't really feel like I
Speaker 3: ever had a true relationship with Jesus. Growing up. I
Speaker 3: would say I was a believer. I believed in God,
Speaker 3: but beyond that, that's all it really was. It was
Speaker 3: more about when I was growing up, about all right,
Speaker 3: getting good grades, portraying that you were a good person.
Speaker 3: And then I was heavily involved in basketball growing up, right,
Speaker 3: and so that ended up taking me to being recruited
Speaker 3: and going out on the West Coast and playing Division
Speaker 3: one basketball out on the West Coast, you know, in
Speaker 3: the late nineties, early two thousands, which was a ton
Speaker 3: of fun. Absolutely wouldn't have traded it for the world.
Speaker 3: Got to really travel the country, and eventually I played
Speaker 3: professionally in Italy for a year until a back injury
Speaker 3: caught up with me from my senior year in college.
Speaker 3: And so you get to travel, you know, the United States,
Speaker 3: and you get to travel the world and see beautiful
Speaker 3: things and meet great people. But you know, at that point,
Speaker 3: you know you have your back injury, and you're like,
Speaker 3: all right, now I got to give up basketball and
Speaker 3: it's time to hit the real world. So thankfully I
Speaker 3: did get my degree. And you know, when I was
Speaker 3: back actually from Italy, is when I actually ended up
Speaker 3: meeting my wife. So I traveled the world and I
Speaker 3: married a local girl. That's just how life goes, right,
Speaker 3: So I ended up we graduated two years below each
Speaker 3: other in high school, didn't really know each other too well,
Speaker 3: knew of each other and that's about it. And so
Speaker 3: I ran into her when I was back rehaving my
Speaker 3: back from Italy, and all it took was two and
Speaker 3: a half months George and we were engaged. So I
Speaker 3: tell my daughters, you know, don't get any ideas two
Speaker 3: and a half months is pretty pretty pretty short engagement
Speaker 3: period there. So we got we got engaged very quickly,
Speaker 3: and then married about eleven months after that. So you know,
Speaker 3: when you get married young. It seems like people are
Speaker 3: married older and older these days, but we were twenty
Speaker 3: three and twenty one. We decided to take about four
Speaker 3: four and a half years to ourselves and just be
Speaker 3: a married couple without the kid thing, which was fantastic,
Speaker 3: but one of the things I noticed about myself was,
Speaker 3: you know, you don't have a relationship with Jesus. You
Speaker 3: lose basketball, which was your identity, that was who you were.
Speaker 3: And I was struggling through our marriage. I was just
Speaker 3: struggling through what I wanted to do for a job
Speaker 3: and who I was If without basketball, was I really anything?
Speaker 3: And I think that I really struggled with my identity,
Speaker 3: which you know, it leads to drinking more. And then
Speaker 3: you have three back surgeries in your mid thirties to
Speaker 3: fix what happened to you in college. And you know,
Speaker 3: for thirteen months, I had three back surgeries and you're
Speaker 3: on pain pills and opioids that whole time, just trying
Speaker 3: to manage the pain and go through all the surgeries.
Speaker 3: And so you know that moment, I feel so really
Speaker 3: I kind of all came to a culmination in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 3: the wheels just kind of came off my marriage, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, my wife looks at me, She's like,
Speaker 3: you need to move out. I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: where am I at now? So thankfully God had a
Speaker 3: plan for me, even though I wasn't what I would
Speaker 3: call a true believer at that point. In time got
Speaker 3: me in connection with a kind of a buddy of
Speaker 3: mine that i'd lost contact with, good Christian buddy of
Speaker 3: mine who was living in an apartment above the soup
Speaker 3: kitchen here in town, if you want to believe that one.
Speaker 3: So I really had to re evaluate my life and
Speaker 3: figure out, Okay, where did I want to go at
Speaker 3: this point in my life. To be honest with you,
Speaker 3: I thought my marriage was over. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 3: I just need to become a better person for my kids.
Speaker 3: You know. At the time, my kids were in you know,
Speaker 3: second and fourth grade. I've got to come up with
Speaker 3: a planned at least be a good father to them
Speaker 3: if my marriage is going to be over. So, throughout
Speaker 3: that period of living away from home, you know, I
Speaker 3: started to kind of get into the world a little
Speaker 3: bit and explore Jesus a little bit more on what
Speaker 3: that meant for me. I got involved with a local
Speaker 3: AA group that was more than just talking about higher
Speaker 3: power but talking specifically about Jesus Christ, and so really
Speaker 3: got involved with that, got involved with the church. In
Speaker 3: November fifteen, I decided to give my life to Christ
Speaker 3: and get baptized, which my wife attended. My baptism. So
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, this is a good side here. He's
Speaker 3: got my baptism. That's kind of cool. And then a
Speaker 3: few months I went by and I think my wife
Speaker 3: saw the person that she knew I was and knew
Speaker 3: she wanted, and in February of sixteen asked me to
Speaker 3: move back into the house. And since that moment in time,
Speaker 3: our marriage has never been better. It was really cool
Speaker 3: to just you know, be a part of, you know,
Speaker 3: raising my kids and coaching their sports teams and all
Speaker 3: sorts of stuff like that. And now they're nineteen and seventeen,
Speaker 3: and I'm very open with them. I think it's important
Speaker 3: that my kids know the struggles of life and the
Speaker 3: struggles that that Satan can bring upon us here on
Speaker 3: this earth. And that's okay, and they need to be
Speaker 3: wary of that as well. So, you know, they don't
Speaker 3: really quite remember the details of it all back in
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, but I remind them, you know, here and
Speaker 3: there of hey, you know, mom and I we were
Speaker 3: split up, and here's why, and here's kind of the
Speaker 3: pitfalls I want you guys to avoid when you get bolder.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, that's kind of what brought me
Speaker 3: to my kind of solid Christian faith right now, and
Speaker 3: then you know, you start living that Christian faith and
Speaker 3: it can kind of plateau at times. And I'm you know,
Speaker 3: involved in a local church here, I'm on the governing
Speaker 3: team and we're you know, trying to make some difficult
Speaker 3: decisions about the direction of the church. And then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden twenty twenty three, for whatever reason, a
Speaker 3: bunch of videos started coming across my TikTok for you
Speaker 3: page about flat Earth. And I had no idea what
Speaker 3: this was, what this concept was, and I don't know why.
Speaker 3: It just kind of captured me and I started and then,
Speaker 3: you know the TikTok algorithm, if you stay too long
Speaker 3: on a video, then they start throwing more flatter and
Speaker 3: stuff at you. And I just kept getting into it
Speaker 3: and getting into it. I got introduced to flat Earth Dave,
Speaker 3: and then the Fittest Flatter through, which I know is
Speaker 3: a guest on your podcast. A little bit ago, ran
Speaker 3: across a guy who was offering a true Earth kind
Speaker 3: of manifesto book that was a free download. So I
Speaker 3: went and got that and I was I was reading
Speaker 3: and it's constantly kind of pursuing this flat earth thing,
Speaker 3: because it was just very, very fascinating to me some
Speaker 3: of the things that were going on. So I just
Speaker 3: became obsessed with my research. And then through through this research,
Speaker 3: it's interesting. You know, I don't think people realize that
Speaker 3: when you when you start researching flat earth, it's it's
Speaker 3: going to bring you closer whether you want to or not,
Speaker 3: it's going to bring you closer to the truth, and
Speaker 3: it's going to bring you closer to Jesus in your life.
Speaker 3: It just it just is what it is, right, and
Speaker 3: and it's you start seeing what the Bible says about it,
Speaker 3: and you start reading the various verses out there of
Speaker 3: of you know, the Earth is stationary, not moving, and
Speaker 3: the creation and Genesis, and it was just it kept
Speaker 3: my mind going. And so then you start sharing it
Speaker 3: with people. And I know you've talked about this many
Speaker 3: of times, George. There's just not a lot of people
Speaker 3: to talk flat earth with, right, So I start talking
Speaker 3: with the people that i'm you know, at least they're
Speaker 3: comfortable in my life. I bring it to my dad
Speaker 3: and my brother met with you know, they're not believers.
Speaker 3: They're like, no, there's no way, you're crazy. So that
Speaker 3: was a little discouraging, and like, well, they're not buying
Speaker 3: into flat Earth and I'm you know, I'm the son,
Speaker 3: and I could tell almost my dad was a little
Speaker 3: angry about it. It was interesting. My brother just kind
Speaker 3: of shakes his head and he, you know, it's just like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is you know, this is something. Chris is on it.
Speaker 3: He'll get over it. And then I do a men's group.
Speaker 3: I do a Bible study group on Tuesday mornings. I
Speaker 3: kind of brought it up to them. I'm like, what
Speaker 3: do you guys think about flat Earth and kind of
Speaker 3: the Biblical model of Earth and the creation and all
Speaker 3: that stuff, And with met with much resistance, to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, which I was surprised about. Probably shouldn't
Speaker 3: have been surprised about it, but you know, I was
Speaker 3: excited to share it with them of something that kind
Speaker 3: of was bringing me closer to Jesus. And they just
Speaker 3: kind of poo pooed it and had a lot of
Speaker 3: questions and we're trying to contradict everything. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: all right, so there's that. Where I've had the most
Speaker 3: successful is my immediate family. It'd be quite awser if
Speaker 3: you specifically my daughters, my wife, my oldest daughter, super cool.
Speaker 3: She talks about it often with her friends who are eighteen, nineteen,
Speaker 3: twenty years old. And I have fielded my phone and
Speaker 3: O ring at ten thirty at night. She's up visiting
Speaker 3: some friends up in college, some of her older friends
Speaker 3: that are already in college, and I'm fielding a forty
Speaker 3: five minute phone call because they have all these questions
Speaker 3: for me, and they want to talk flat Earth and
Speaker 3: they want to learn more. So I thought, that's just
Speaker 3: super cool. I just I fined that the younger generation
Speaker 3: seems a little bit more open to this particular concept
Speaker 3: than the older generation, who have been so programmed our
Speaker 3: whole lives. It's harder for the scales to come off
Speaker 3: our eyes, and we have to admit that we were wrong,
Speaker 3: and that kind of is a kind of a blow
Speaker 3: to our pride, so you know, And then I started searching.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I drive a lot for my work.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm in sales. I'm a regional sales manager,
Speaker 3: and I got to go visit my reps and I
Speaker 3: got to kill some time. Let's see what podcasts are
Speaker 3: out there. So then I search up a flatter of
Speaker 3: podcasts and here you come with your podcast. And so
Speaker 3: I probably latched onto your podcast about a year and change,
Speaker 3: about eighteen months ago roughly, and just started listening to
Speaker 3: to you know, all your amazing guests and all that stuff,
Speaker 3: and so I guess that's what kind of brought me here.
Speaker 3: And then you always announce well, if you want to
Speaker 3: be a guest on the show, email the show, and
Speaker 3: probably took me six months to get the guts to
Speaker 3: do it. And then you know I was telling you
Speaker 3: before the show. Then you do it, and your time
Speaker 3: is coming to come on the show, and you get
Speaker 3: a little nervous and you're like, gosh, do I have
Speaker 3: enough content? Do people really want to listen to a
Speaker 3: guy like me talk about, you know, flat Earth and
Speaker 3: my journey to Jesus and all sorts of stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And then you know, my wife just said just do it.
Speaker 3: You'll be fine, and I'm like, all right, so I
Speaker 3: do back out. I thought about it and not going
Speaker 3: to lie to you, but I'm glad I didn't and
Speaker 3: I'm glad I'm here. So thank you for the time.
Speaker 1: Well what an outstanding introduction, and now it's time to
Speaker 1: ask you a few questions about your introduction first and
Speaker 1: foremost in your journey to the truth. Would you say
Speaker 1: flat Earth was one of the first rabbit holes you
Speaker 1: had ever come across, or have you kind of been
Speaker 1: privy to other things say that like nine to eleven
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City or COVID or things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I would never coin
Speaker 3: myself as a conspiracy guy up until flat Earth, to
Speaker 3: be quite honest with you. And I think that's why
Speaker 3: people when I start talking about this stuff, they're like, Chris,
Speaker 3: this isn't here, This isn't usually your style, this isn't
Speaker 3: typically who you are. And I'm just so passionate about it,
Speaker 3: and I feel like, you know, knowledgeable about it. I've
Speaker 3: done the research, I know the numbers, and so I
Speaker 3: want to talk to people about it and so. And
Speaker 3: then once you get introduced to flat Earth, that that's
Speaker 3: when you start going down other rabbit holes.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: You're like, well, if they're lying about this, what else
Speaker 3: is going on? And obviously we knew in twenty twenty
Speaker 3: something was weird with COVID, right, And so you start
Speaker 3: then going backwards and you start researching all these things,
Speaker 3: and obviously with flat Earth comes you know, the moon landing,
Speaker 3: and you start I was always skeptical the moon landing,
Speaker 3: but you know, you just kind of chalk it up
Speaker 3: to it is what it is, and you don't really
Speaker 3: get too much into it. And I think that's the
Speaker 3: that's the secret of Satan is just kind of keep
Speaker 3: us distracted, and it just keep us, you know, status quo,
Speaker 3: and we won't ask too many questions and it'll just
Speaker 3: kind of pass on its own and we'll all still
Speaker 3: believe it. So I would say flat Earth. It started
Speaker 3: with flat Earth, and then it really kind of morphed
Speaker 3: into all right, I got to look at some other
Speaker 3: things here, because this is a big this is a
Speaker 3: big lie. Why the lie? And you have a great
Speaker 3: podcast on that, Why the Lie? And then you start
Speaker 3: going down other rabbit holes of nine to eleven and
Speaker 3: the you know, eighty six challenger and the Oklahoma City
Speaker 3: bombing and COVID, and it just it starts tail spinning
Speaker 3: and your eyes just become wide open.
Speaker 1: Indeed for me, and I think, God, you know, sets
Speaker 1: us in these situations, because for me, I wouldn't even
Speaker 1: looked at flatter ath if it wasn't the last piece
Speaker 1: of evidence. But it was like what you said. Once
Speaker 1: you understand how big this lie is, then the veil
Speaker 1: truly drops from your eye and you're able to go
Speaker 1: book to go back, bardon me and look at all
Speaker 1: these other quote unquote conspiracies. You're from Minnesota, like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: a significant Lutheran population, I think from the eighteen twenties
Speaker 1: or so forward, the huge influx of German and Scandinavian
Speaker 1: folks up until I guess fifteen years ago, and then
Speaker 1: you've seen a huge influx of I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're African or Middle Eastern descent, but you have a
Speaker 1: lot of Smollion actually yeah, and you somoum, yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of state reps. But still such a huge representation
Speaker 1: of Lutherans here in Delaware. Very Methodist but still Protestant.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked when you ask someone who started Protestantism that
Speaker 1: their clue is like that they just don't know even
Speaker 1: what Protestant means. That it comes from protesting Catholicism, and
Speaker 1: then Martin Luther and the Reformation started it. But I
Speaker 1: would assume in your neck of the woods that's not
Speaker 1: the same.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's not. And it's interesting. My journey so
Speaker 3: you know, you grew up Lutheran, and then I marry
Speaker 3: my wife, who came from a very staunch Catholic background,
Speaker 3: so the point where her uncle actually was a priest,
Speaker 3: and so, you know, not being strong in my faith,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you want me to become you want
Speaker 3: me to become Catholic, I'll become Catholic. So I did
Speaker 3: the RCIA classes to become Catholic. In two thousand and one,
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in RCIA classes on Bowl Sunday and missing
Speaker 3: one of the best Super Bowls ever was the Rams
Speaker 3: uh Rams Patriots that year, right the Vinitary kick, And
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in RCI classes like, oh man, I'm missing
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl for this. So I became Catholic. Uh
Speaker 3: really just to appease my wife's family and my wife
Speaker 3: and and obviously that doesn't stick for you as well
Speaker 3: when you're when you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 3: So I've been you know, exposed to the Lutheran side
Speaker 3: of things. I've been exposed to the to the Catholic
Speaker 3: side of things. And then when we started kind of
Speaker 3: getting into some challenges in the marriage, We're like, all right,
Speaker 3: we're going to go to this non denominational church across
Speaker 3: the street, and that was fantastic. And that's actually where
Speaker 3: I met one of the guys in my Bible study.
Speaker 3: A couple of those guys actually from that church in
Speaker 3: my Bible study on Tuesday mornings. Uh So that's fantastic.
Speaker 3: H And then we just kind of ended up venturing
Speaker 3: off to h I guess the church would be classified
Speaker 3: as a Baptist church, and so was, you know, and
Speaker 3: then it just recently changed over to a different Baptist
Speaker 3: churches that has a lot of many locations throughout Minnesota.
Speaker 3: So I've kind of had a journey to to to
Speaker 3: Jesus that you know, I think a lot more people
Speaker 3: end up on that journey than they'd like to admit,
Speaker 3: where you kind of you hop around and then you
Speaker 3: really find something that that that sticks and you find
Speaker 3: something that makes sense to you and you're just like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is this is my home and this is where
Speaker 3: I need to be. And so we've been there now
Speaker 3: for about eight years and it's just been a fantastic experience.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. I wanted to touch on something, don't want
Speaker 1: to dwell on it, but I noticed when I had
Speaker 1: I've had two knee surgeries, I had surgery on my wrist,
Speaker 1: and all issues with my back from all the time
Speaker 1: playing soldier. But I remember the second surgery I had,
Speaker 1: and I remember they issued me narcotics. And I tell
Speaker 1: you what I can I was so glad that prescription
Speaker 1: right out, because I can see how easily it can
Speaker 1: befall somebody.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting. You know, you typically get introduced to
Speaker 3: opioids or narcotics usually around you're seventeen eighteen year old,
Speaker 3: you get your wisdom teeth out and you get that
Speaker 3: prescription for narcotics, and so you've got these kids all
Speaker 3: of a sudden getting introduced to an opioid, and they're like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is interesting. What I've seen with opioids is you
Speaker 3: do either really well on them or you do really
Speaker 3: poorly on them. They either make you nauseous and sick
Speaker 3: or they make you feel amazing. And unfortunately for me,
Speaker 3: they made me feel amating. Right. My wife has the
Speaker 3: luxury of getting nauseous on them. She doesn't like them.
Speaker 3: She never takes them, so, you know, and once you
Speaker 3: get introduced to that, and then you know, you mentioned
Speaker 3: your time serving And for me, that was playing basketball.
Speaker 3: I could go to the health center on campus as
Speaker 3: a Division one athlete and get a prescription written for
Speaker 3: me pretty much anytime that I wanted because something was
Speaker 3: hurting all the time. And so you get introduced. So
Speaker 3: that kind of went through my college years and then
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you get into the surgeries. And
Speaker 3: I would say, Gemerge, to be honest with you, opioids
Speaker 3: are probably the hardest one to kick. When it came
Speaker 3: to alcohol, I was blessed God just kind of relieved
Speaker 3: that urge from me. And you know, you just ask me,
Speaker 3: ask him in a prayer, Hey, you know, just help
Speaker 3: relieve me of this urge to drink. And and I
Speaker 3: felt like that happened so much quicker and easier than
Speaker 3: it did for the opioids. To be honest with you,
Speaker 3: that's a that's a stronghold that I feel that we
Speaker 3: know there's an epidemic going on here in the in
Speaker 3: the United States, and and I know President Trump is
Speaker 3: trying to address the fetanol, you know, epidemic that's going
Speaker 3: on in this country, and so it's it's it's nothing
Speaker 3: to shy away from. It's something I think we need
Speaker 3: to talk about more because you know, and to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, you know when you run out you
Speaker 3: mentioned running out of your prescription. So when you run
Speaker 3: out of your prescription or you get flagged like I
Speaker 3: did for you know, getting too many refills, then where
Speaker 3: do people typically go. They typically go on the street, right,
Speaker 3: I mean prescription opioids. It's basically prescription heroin. And so
Speaker 3: then you go on the streets to go pursue heroin
Speaker 3: or whatever. And that's when the really the wheels come off.
Speaker 3: And for me, probably I just had probably too much pride,
Speaker 3: but that was something that I was like, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to do that. So then you get off of them.
Speaker 3: And I tell you it was a wild ride getting
Speaker 3: off of them. It was seventy two hours of a
Speaker 3: struggle of just kind of going cold turkey and saying
Speaker 3: enough's enough. I got to get off this stuff and
Speaker 3: just get back to myself.
Speaker 1: Hey man, you mentioned something, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: derail and go completely in another direction, but I would
Speaker 1: encourage people there is I'm telling you there's a conspiracy
Speaker 1: behind everything. Have you looked into the wisdom tooth extraction scam?
Speaker 3: I have not. No, I've done the root canal scam.
Speaker 3: That's one thing I've gone down that rabbit hole. The
Speaker 3: wisdom teeth I have not.
Speaker 1: So there was something written in a journal. I have
Speaker 1: to go back and find it. But out of ten
Speaker 1: million wisdom teeth extractions that are done in America every year,
Speaker 1: only twenty proved to be necessary. And then there was
Speaker 1: a doctor like a hundred years ago who wrote this
Speaker 1: long journal that that talked about how it is beneficial
Speaker 1: to regenerative cells and all this other things. So you know, again,
Speaker 1: we're just when you're born, you get the vaccines, when
Speaker 1: you get seventeen, you get your wisdom teeth out. That
Speaker 1: that is something that I encourage people to go about.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of papers that have been written on
Speaker 1: that over the years, So go check that out before
Speaker 1: you just send little Johnny off to get his wisdom
Speaker 1: teeth pulled out, Like yeah, I can go ahead, And no, no,
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I think there's something
Speaker 1: to it. When you think about it, it's all of
Speaker 1: these things are just automatic. Out of ten million, only
Speaker 1: twenty proved to be necessary and urgent.
Speaker 3: So I can, well, it's lucrative to pull the wisdom
Speaker 3: teeth when they're doing thirds. You know, obviously I'm in
Speaker 3: the industry, and that's usually so we're in my industry,
Speaker 3: we're a little slow. So I'm on the dental medical
Speaker 3: device side of things, okay, and so we're a little
Speaker 3: slow in the summertime because a lot of our specialists
Speaker 3: are spending their time yanking thirds, you know, yank and
Speaker 3: the wisdom teeth before these kids either go to college
Speaker 3: or maybe they're home from college and whatever. So that
Speaker 3: is a big part of their business. It's a it's
Speaker 3: a lucrative part of their business, and it's a it's
Speaker 3: a quick, quick hit type thing where they can get
Speaker 3: them in and get the wisdom teeth out. So I
Speaker 3: think it also boils down to the business side of
Speaker 3: things too, where it's it's quick, easy money and the
Speaker 3: profit margins are there, and so it's it's interesting to
Speaker 3: see the wave of when that happens in our industry
Speaker 3: versus not happen.
Speaker 1: So you may be able to speak to this. There's
Speaker 1: a big movement amongst the veterans to try to get
Speaker 1: dental care encompassed in healthcare. What what is the do
Speaker 1: you know the history of why? You know there's health insurance,
Speaker 1: but your eyes and your teeth are separate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't speak to knowing why it is the
Speaker 3: way it is, but it's interesting because is in my industry,
Speaker 3: I would say most at best, you're getting a fifty
Speaker 3: percent coverage on what we do with our medical devices
Speaker 3: that we sell. So you know, you've got patients and
Speaker 3: there's there's it's two sides, right, So you've now you've
Speaker 3: forced the patient to be more cash paying versus having
Speaker 3: it being covered with just a simple copay. The other
Speaker 3: thing is what's nice in my industry is that now
Speaker 3: the insurance companies don't have their hands in it either.
Speaker 3: So these these dentists, these oral surgeons, these periodontists can
Speaker 3: now make decisions or at least present cases to the
Speaker 3: patients that they feel would benefit them without having to
Speaker 3: play the insurance game and the ridder mall that all
Speaker 3: comes with all that. So there's there's positives and negatives
Speaker 3: to it both. To be honest with you, before I
Speaker 3: was in medical device on the dental side of things,
Speaker 3: I was in the pharmaceutical industry, and I would see
Speaker 3: how you would visit with doctors. They would say, man,
Speaker 3: your drug is is fabulous. I believe in it. I
Speaker 3: believe the studies, and it does what it says it's
Speaker 3: going to do. However, it's not on our formulary, so
Speaker 3: I can't write it, so I'm forced to write this
Speaker 3: other prescription. Right, And so you've got patients that are
Speaker 3: getting lesser drugs, lesser efficacious drugs, because it just happens
Speaker 3: to be on that particular formulaity of their insurance or
Speaker 3: the hospital or wherever they're at. And so you're really
Speaker 3: kind of sacrificing things for the patients when you're you've
Speaker 3: got insurance so heavily meddling in that particular industry, and
Speaker 3: then with dental it's less right, and so yes, it's
Speaker 3: more expensive for these patients in cash pay, but they
Speaker 3: are able to then pay for what they actually know
Speaker 3: will be good and what will work for them in
Speaker 3: their particular case.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that because that is something that has been
Speaker 1: a hot topic in the veteran community. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: the peak into that. Something that you mentioned that I
Speaker 1: kind of applauded inward when you were talking was not
Speaker 1: keeping things secret around your children. And I am all
Speaker 1: for that, and obviously I'm in hindsight, I don't have
Speaker 1: little ones anymore. But now I even question I don't
Speaker 1: beat myself up about it, but even the stories of
Speaker 1: Santa and things of that nature, because I think that
Speaker 1: plays intentionally a part into programming children into believing things
Speaker 1: they don't feel, see or touch. My wife and I
Speaker 1: were watching an old fifties western last no, the one
Speaker 1: before that, what was it? But it wasn't a western,
Speaker 1: but there was a globe. We kept looking at each
Speaker 1: other like there was one scene where the actor's face
Speaker 1: was literally and the camera was straight ahead and the
Speaker 1: globe was right behind him and we're looking at each other.
Speaker 1: And we watched two fifties movies last night. It was
Speaker 1: like a nore. The second was a western, but the
Speaker 1: first one was literally, like every five minutes there was
Speaker 1: a globe in it. So I'm the older I get,
Speaker 1: the more we are all about not beating around the bush,
Speaker 1: being truthful, and we've even considered counseling our children, even
Speaker 1: the ones that don't have children yet, that this may
Speaker 1: be something you want to consider. And here's the reason why.
Speaker 1: Because I think it does play very subtly into the
Speaker 1: psychological manipulation of individuals.
Speaker 3: It does, and I think that we treat children too
Speaker 3: much like children sometimes that they can't handle some things.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, my wife and I are extremely
Speaker 3: transparent with our children, and some may say too transparent,
Speaker 3: but I think for them to see the lies in life,
Speaker 3: the pitfalls in life that you can fall into, is
Speaker 3: really beneficial to them, especially as they're heading out into
Speaker 3: this you know, sinful world, as they go to college,
Speaker 3: and they're going to be exposed to so many different
Speaker 3: things that maybe they haven't been exposed to in small
Speaker 3: town Minnesota. And so my wife and I are just
Speaker 3: we're really diligent about you know, let's let's talk truth,
Speaker 3: let's let's talk facts, and introduce them to as many
Speaker 3: things as we possibly can. We have amazing family conversations
Speaker 3: over the dinner table. We make a point of doing
Speaker 3: dinner with each other as much as we possibly can
Speaker 3: around all their activities and things that that nature. But
Speaker 3: I think that you know, in the United States and
Speaker 3: maybe across the world, we just lost touch with just
Speaker 3: that general family unit. And I think that Satan has
Speaker 3: done a fantastic job of breaking that family unit apart
Speaker 3: and making us so busy and so distracted, you know,
Speaker 3: with the wives have their jobs, and the husbands have
Speaker 3: their jobs and we're trying to come up with time
Speaker 3: to even have as a family. And what we're doing
Speaker 3: in in you know, in hindsight, is we're letting social media,
Speaker 3: we're letting the television, we're letting Hollywood raise our kids
Speaker 3: if you're not careful, right, And so we've really taken
Speaker 3: a diligent perspect of just being truthful with our kids.
Speaker 3: And I think it's really important that as a parent,
Speaker 3: you relay your mistakes to your kids so they know
Speaker 3: that when you're giving them advice, it's not that you
Speaker 3: feel you're perfect. It's that you don't want them to
Speaker 3: make the mistakes that you've made. And that doesn't mean
Speaker 3: that they're not going to. But at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, when you've made a mistake, come to us,
Speaker 3: let's talk about it. There might be consequences, but we're
Speaker 3: going to figure this out together and we're to go
Speaker 3: from there. And that's kind of the stance we've taken
Speaker 3: in our parental journey here over the last nineteen years
Speaker 3: or so exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's really what wisdom's all about. It's not making mistakes,
Speaker 1: it's having the wisdom to not make the same mistake
Speaker 1: over again. And you had mentioned that timeframe after they
Speaker 1: graduate high school and they're sent out into the world.
Speaker 1: I'd seen an article within the last few weeks. I
Speaker 1: may have mentioned it recently, but there is a significant
Speaker 1: percentage of young people who grew up in religious settings,
Speaker 1: particularly Christianity, leave their faith or church during or after
Speaker 1: their college years. Okay, So this study that we saw,
Speaker 1: and there's more than one to cite this, they suggest
Speaker 1: that between sixty to eighty percent of young adults experience
Speaker 1: a decline in religious participation or a complete shift away
Speaker 1: during that period. And I was one of those people.
Speaker 1: You almost it may sound horrible, but when you graduate
Speaker 1: high school, you had.
Speaker 2: On your own.
Speaker 1: Oh I don't have to go to church on Sunday.
Speaker 1: I'm free. And I think for many people that's the
Speaker 1: thought and that is the falling away. And luckily I
Speaker 1: was blessed enough to live long enough to come back
Speaker 1: into the fold.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've got a buddy who runs a ministry and
Speaker 3: it's specifically targeted to those eighteen to twenty five year olds. Right,
Speaker 3: that's kind of that timeframe where they just venture off.
Speaker 3: And I don't think it really matters the type of
Speaker 3: home you've grown up and it's hard to you know,
Speaker 3: they've got the distractions of college or maybe their career
Speaker 3: that they go on to a trade school, whatever that
Speaker 3: may be after high school, where they just don't see
Speaker 3: the need. And I think that's also what it is too.
Speaker 3: They don't see the need for Jesus in their life, right,
Speaker 3: They're like, well, you know, I got my friends, I've
Speaker 3: got school, i've got this job, I've got whatever's going on,
Speaker 3: and so, you know, there's just again, it comes down
Speaker 3: to distractions. How distracted are we? And then you know
Speaker 3: those who have had maybe the seeds planted in their
Speaker 3: lives as children and growing up as young adults, they
Speaker 3: you know, some tend to circle back and come back
Speaker 3: and bring you know, Jesus back into their lives, either
Speaker 3: when they've got a boyfriend or a husband, newly married
Speaker 3: or starting a family. But that period of eighteen to
Speaker 3: twenty five is just it's unfortunate the statistics that are
Speaker 3: that are based within that. And my buddy who runs
Speaker 3: his ministry really tries to He travels all over and
Speaker 3: talks to colleges and tries to come up with some
Speaker 3: sort of college ministry for these particular individuals to be
Speaker 3: involved with while they're on campus, because you know, and
Speaker 3: he's got to fight that tooth and nail to try
Speaker 3: to get that involved within the universities because they're doing
Speaker 3: all they can to keep that away from the kids,
Speaker 3: right and make that All these worldly things are important,
Speaker 3: but when it comes to your faith and your in
Speaker 3: you living for Jesus in your life tends to take
Speaker 3: a back seat to everything else that's going on in
Speaker 3: their life. And so I take my hat off to
Speaker 3: my buddy who does that ministry because he's he's doing
Speaker 3: amazing work and he's making a lot of head roads
Speaker 3: out there. But yeah, you're right that eighteen to twenty
Speaker 3: five ranges is where people tend to lose themselves, for sure.
Speaker 1: Kudos to your friend, God bless it. What's his first name, Eddy, Andy?
Speaker 1: God bless you, Andy. Thank you for your work. That
Speaker 1: is obviously that is something I've talked about, but yet
Speaker 1: I haven't. That is something that we need to put
Speaker 1: in our statement of faith, that we need to look
Speaker 1: at not just the prison population, but the at risk
Speaker 1: and eighteen to twenty five is at risk of falling
Speaker 1: away from the face of great work. Andy and that
Speaker 1: is actually a layup if I can use a basketball
Speaker 1: term to our next kind of segue, which is being
Speaker 1: on a church board and the struggles of kind of
Speaker 1: what do you seem on your your church boards? The
Speaker 1: difference is do you think they fall into the secular
Speaker 1: world or is it about like the statement of faith
Speaker 1: and or the topics of the day, homosexuality and things
Speaker 1: of that nature.
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting and and you and I were talking
Speaker 3: before the show. You know, everybody wants to peek behind
Speaker 3: the curtain until they get a peek behind the curtain.
Speaker 3: And and and when you you sit in on church
Speaker 3: boards or governing teams or elder boards or whatever you
Speaker 3: guys want to call it, you you really see the
Speaker 3: the the human sinful side of people, even within the church.
Speaker 3: And I think that's normal, right. I think that, you know,
Speaker 3: from an outsider when I was not a really strong believer. Uh,
Speaker 3: and you look at other people, you think that they've
Speaker 3: got it all together and that they're uh, they don't
Speaker 3: have as much sin in their lives as as as
Speaker 3: I do. And and that's intimidating to those who maybe
Speaker 3: want to pursue going to church more. And then you
Speaker 3: get involved in church and you realize we're just all humans,
Speaker 3: we're all making mistakes, we're all sinful in our nature.
Speaker 3: And you see that on church boards, you see that
Speaker 3: within pastors, you see that all over. And so the
Speaker 3: struggles that we were coming across as we had a
Speaker 3: long term pastor who had an opportunity to kind of
Speaker 3: move up and become a regional director over this Baptist
Speaker 3: church community, and he took it. And I think that's
Speaker 3: another issue, George, when it comes to churches, is we
Speaker 3: tend to put these pastors and priests on pedestals and
Speaker 3: when they leave, when they leave the church, it's like
Speaker 3: it falls into a tailspin. And that's not how it
Speaker 3: should be. It should be about more of the church
Speaker 3: body and what we have as a group. But you know,
Speaker 3: we tend to put them on their pedestals and that
Speaker 3: kind of becomes our idol of worship within the church
Speaker 3: at times, and so when they leave, it put our
Speaker 3: church into a tail spin. And we were out there
Speaker 3: trying to I'm the right pastor, and I'm a business guy,
Speaker 3: so I like to move and shake, and I can
Speaker 3: make quick decisions. And when you're on a church board,
Speaker 3: there's no such thing as a quick decision, right, It's
Speaker 3: it's very slow moving and we're going to pray about
Speaker 3: this and we're gonna you know, look at all these
Speaker 3: other options, and we're gonna move really really slowly, which
Speaker 3: I think there's huge advantages of. You don't want to
Speaker 3: just make a you know, a quick miss, you know,
Speaker 3: a quick decision that can lead to a mistake. And
Speaker 3: so as we were looking at different pastures, you know,
Speaker 3: we ran across one who was on the surface looked
Speaker 3: amazingly fantastic, and then we find out, you know, he
Speaker 3: has married homosexual couples and believes in doing that, and
Speaker 3: we're like, oh my gosh, well we can't, we can't
Speaker 3: go with this. And so we just kept tail spinning
Speaker 3: into not being able to find a pastor. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, I was telling you pre show. We we
Speaker 3: then had a church out of Minneapolis, one of our
Speaker 3: bigger churches out of Minneapolis, who wanted to plan a
Speaker 3: church up here in kind of the resort community of
Speaker 3: Minnesota and called us, and it was just it was
Speaker 3: a perfect fit at you know, God's timing is amazing,
Speaker 3: and so we ended up becoming under their umbrella of
Speaker 3: churches in September here of twenty four. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean it's interesting. I think that we view churches as
Speaker 3: these perfect places and perfect people, and it's just imperfect
Speaker 3: people in an imperfect world trying to, you know, worship
Speaker 3: Jesus the best they can. It's interesting we're sitting in
Speaker 3: on these board meetings and we know, we even talked
Speaker 3: about it. We're like, Satan is attacking this church. We
Speaker 3: could admit that we could see it, yet it didn't
Speaker 3: prevent us from attacking each other at times too, And
Speaker 3: it was just unfortunate that it led to people leaving
Speaker 3: the church or leaving the board, or you know, our
Speaker 3: church split into two sides, pro this pastor, pro that pastor,
Speaker 3: and so it's just it's something we can't avoid it.
Speaker 3: It's in our human nature, unfortunately, and you know, thank God,
Speaker 3: it's his timing and we made it through it and
Speaker 3: we're a super strong church now. But it was a
Speaker 3: rough couple of years.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, yeh man, I'm glad he came
Speaker 1: to on the other side. All glory to God. One
Speaker 1: more question before we kind of segue back into flat Earth.
Speaker 1: But I'm interested. You know, you're a sales guy. You're
Speaker 1: on the road a lot. How did twenty twenty affect
Speaker 1: your life? I guess since you being in Minnesota, not
Speaker 1: just with with COVID and the shutdowns and everything and
Speaker 1: the jabs, but you know, there was some events going
Speaker 1: on not too far down the road from you.
Speaker 3: There was not It was an interesting time in Minnesota
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, right. You know, not only did you
Speaker 3: have the entire country shutting down in March of twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: but then two months later in May of twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: obviously the George Floyd thing happens, and I feel like
Speaker 3: Minnesota was just this lightning rod of you know, racial
Speaker 3: disparity and conflict, and it was just it was really
Speaker 3: I'm fortunate what happened here in Minnesota. And you know,
Speaker 3: Minneapolis still hasn't. Minneapolis just has not rebounded the way
Speaker 3: I thought it could and would. It's it's a different
Speaker 3: city since twenty twenty. To be quite honest with you,
Speaker 3: I don't take my family down in Minneapolis as much
Speaker 3: as I used to. We go to Twins games, we
Speaker 3: usually catch a matinee game. We're not there at night,
Speaker 3: and it's just it's a different vibe, and you know,
Speaker 3: you can get into the politics of it all and
Speaker 3: you know who's been in charge and where things have gone.
Speaker 3: But to be honest with you, my wife and I
Speaker 3: have always talked about like cash, we got to I
Speaker 3: think we got to get out of this state. But
Speaker 3: we live in such a beautiful part of the state
Speaker 3: and we're kind of out of the mess of it all.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, we still feel
Speaker 3: the repercussions of some of the political stuff that's going
Speaker 3: on in Minnesota, and it makes it hard. You know,
Speaker 3: You've got the Dakotas to our west, and we're like, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe Sioux Falls or you know, maybe Fargo or you know,
Speaker 3: just something to get out of it all. But you know,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, this is where my
Speaker 3: wife and I were were born and raised, and like
Speaker 3: I said, we live in a beautiful community with great
Speaker 3: public schools and great people around us and great churches,
Speaker 3: and so you know, we're going to be here for
Speaker 3: a little bit. Our daughters aren't going too far away
Speaker 3: from from us from school. They'll be on the Dakota
Speaker 3: side of things, So who knows, we might have to
Speaker 3: get a little residency over there. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: Minnesota has definitely changed, not for the better, unfortunately, but
Speaker 3: it you know, it is what it is, and you know,
Speaker 3: the things that are going on in Minnesota right now,
Speaker 3: they continue to go on, to be quite honest with you,
Speaker 3: and I don't see that changing unfortunately, George. I see
Speaker 3: that as a lot of people complaining. But when it
Speaker 3: comes to the elections, it just seems to keep happening
Speaker 3: and keep happening and keep happening. And so I think
Speaker 3: we are who we are, unfortunately, and we've kind of
Speaker 3: made our bed and now it's time to land it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree, And I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of people may be listening to the podcast right now.
Speaker 1: We're in that situation where they live in a place
Speaker 1: that they maybe don't recognize, but they still consider at home,
Speaker 1: and they don't want to they don't want to just
Speaker 1: keep hopping away because I think this is a worldwide event.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm in the mindset r. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to dig in. This is my home and I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, fight the fight with the tools that I
Speaker 1: have and let the chips fall where they may.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's okay to be you know, a light
Speaker 3: in darkness at times too, right, we tend to when
Speaker 3: they're going gets tough. And you see that, you see
Speaker 3: it with even in Christians and churches right where going
Speaker 3: gets tough and I'm just going to go to another church,
Speaker 3: and it's like there's something to be said about kind
Speaker 3: of getting through the crap of it all, and and
Speaker 3: and being a light in some darkness, and and and
Speaker 3: trying to to show people that there's a different way.
Speaker 3: And so you know, we're hoping to do that. We
Speaker 3: we did that with our local church here in town.
Speaker 3: And it would have been very easy to leave, be
Speaker 3: very easy to pick up and move out of Minnesota.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, we we we
Speaker 3: our roots are here and we want to make an
Speaker 3: impact the best way we possibly can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you made it great mention earlier to where
Speaker 1: anytime there's a transition in the church, it should be
Speaker 1: barely noticeable and things keep hugging away, right, And that's
Speaker 1: something that a local church has gone through right now,
Speaker 1: just a transition and just the not just the way
Speaker 1: or the style that it's taught. It's just again, if
Speaker 1: the United States of America was run by the rules
Speaker 1: and regulations as originally stated, it shouldn't really matter who's
Speaker 1: in control, right, and it should be the same with
Speaker 1: the church if the theology and doctrine is being taught
Speaker 1: the way it should be. But that's we're human and
Speaker 1: we're flawed, and we're opinionated, and we have certain things
Speaker 1: we want to prop up. And that that's something that
Speaker 1: I struggle with too, is when you go through that
Speaker 1: change and the pastor's not going to change, do you
Speaker 1: just stay in and you know, listen every Sunday. It
Speaker 1: is something that you struggle with when there's not any
Speaker 1: citation of scripture and you know, they're just bringing up
Speaker 1: secular things constantly from the altar. It's it's a struggle.
Speaker 1: And that's, you know, ultimately is the reason why you know,
Speaker 1: we want to plan a church. It's like if we're
Speaker 1: going to complain, well, we better do something about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that that speaks volumes because
Speaker 3: it is easy to just kind of play that passive
Speaker 3: role of you know, well, I'm just here, and it's
Speaker 3: it's hard to be a part of a church that's
Speaker 3: just focusing on secular issues. And you know, I always
Speaker 3: whether you know it is what it is. But when
Speaker 3: I'm listening to a sermon, it's interesting to me in
Speaker 3: the in the back of my mind, I'm always timing out, Okay,
Speaker 3: how long does it take to get to some sort
Speaker 3: of scripture within their sermon? When are we referencing God's word?
Speaker 3: And sometimes it's right away and sometimes it's five, six, seven,
Speaker 3: eight minutes in until we really break into the word
Speaker 3: of God and see what he has to say on things.
Speaker 3: I think it's so easy for for pastors and I
Speaker 3: would probably fall into the same thing. We give our
Speaker 3: opinions on certain things and rather than let's let's see
Speaker 3: what God had to say about this, and then let's
Speaker 3: try to interpret it the best way we possibly can
Speaker 3: and maybe realize that our interpretation isn't what was intended.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, this is the
Speaker 3: best we can do with what we've got, right, And
Speaker 3: so I think it's it's hard, and you know, people
Speaker 3: struggle with church going, and we see, you know, we've
Speaker 3: got probably five or six pretty healthy churches here in
Speaker 3: where I live here in central Minnesota, and it's interesting
Speaker 3: to see all the faces that kind of bounce around
Speaker 3: and they're kind of testing some things out and I think,
Speaker 3: you know, there there's good things about it because they
Speaker 3: want to find a pastor that speaks their language, who
Speaker 3: is biblically sound and all that sort of stuff. And
Speaker 3: then there's the other side of it, where you know,
Speaker 3: maybe something was said that was biblically sound and they
Speaker 3: don't really care for it, and then they type of
Speaker 3: take off from there too. So there's good and bad
Speaker 3: sides to both of that. But I think as long
Speaker 3: as we're staying in God's word, we can't go wrong.
Speaker 1: Amen, well said, Well said, and perfect segue into biblical
Speaker 1: cosmology if you will. Did it hit you, you know,
Speaker 1: when you went through the journey and the research, did
Speaker 1: you understand from going that maybe God's in some other
Speaker 1: dimension and Heaven is somewhere else too, It's all right
Speaker 1: there in the heavens above us.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that if you're not talking biblical cosmology,
Speaker 3: if you're just thinking of the world as how it
Speaker 3: was taught to us in the public school systems or
Speaker 3: even in the private school systems. I mean, they've got
Speaker 3: the virtually the same textbooks, right, They're not teaching anything different.
Speaker 3: The world is a globe, and space is space, and
Speaker 3: now you've got to learn all the planets, and you've
Speaker 3: got to know their orders and all sorts of stuff
Speaker 3: like that. It leaves me wondering as kind of a
Speaker 3: flailing Christian or a part time Christian as I was
Speaker 3: in my earlier life of Okay, well, where's God, Where's Heaven,
Speaker 3: Where's you know, how does this fit into the Bible.
Speaker 3: And to be honest with you, George, I had a
Speaker 3: a really disappointing conversation with my luth and pastor as
Speaker 3: I was growing up because I had a lot of questions.
Speaker 3: I had a lot of questions about creation. I had
Speaker 3: a lot of questions about dinosaurs. What I'm being caught
Speaker 3: in school isn't what I'm reading in the Bible. And
Speaker 3: I got a very terrible answer, to be quite honest
Speaker 3: with you, and it left me more confused than anything.
Speaker 3: And honestly, I think that I was going to save
Speaker 3: this point for later, but I'm extremely disappointed in the
Speaker 3: Christian community in how we tend to avoid the topic
Speaker 3: of the creation right. So you know, it very clearly
Speaker 3: states in Genesis the creation story, and we tend to
Speaker 3: fall back on what we're taught in school and on
Speaker 3: the science side, of things. But yeah, but God is there.
Speaker 3: He's just you know, yes, science is right, but you
Speaker 3: know the earth is how many million years old? But
Speaker 3: God created it and all this sort of stuff, and
Speaker 3: it's like, well, no, the earth is about sixty five
Speaker 3: hundred years old, right, and Heaven is right above us,
Speaker 3: and we've got a firmament above us that you can
Speaker 3: only get when you read the King James version. You
Speaker 3: read another version doesn't say the word firmament, and so
Speaker 3: you've got to be in the right version of the
Speaker 3: Bible to get exactly what you need to get. But
Speaker 3: it left me really confused as a young teenager looking
Speaker 3: for answers of why am I getting contradicted in school
Speaker 3: versus what I'm reading in the Bible, And to not
Speaker 3: have that taught to me in a biblically sound way
Speaker 3: just left me more confused, and to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: left me flailing for probably longer than I should have
Speaker 3: been in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome, because that is part of the struggle,
Speaker 1: is you know, the young man being in school thirty
Speaker 1: five hours a week and only being in church for
Speaker 1: one or two hours a week, and those questions when
Speaker 1: you're told by your science teacher one thing, and then
Speaker 1: you're taught about Genesis.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: These are the things that people really within the church
Speaker 1: really need to get a home harness on and understand
Speaker 1: that they have more time with the children than the
Speaker 1: church does. And it's an uphill battle. And these may
Speaker 1: seem small and trivial, but this may also be a
Speaker 1: part of the reason why sixty to eighty percent of
Speaker 1: the people fall away from the church when they turn eighteen.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think you start kind of questioning some of
Speaker 3: your church leadership at times of well, why are they
Speaker 3: not telling me this? Or what am I missing? Because
Speaker 3: they're saying dinosaurs here X number of millions of years ago,
Speaker 3: and that, you know, the Big Bang and evolution and
Speaker 3: all sorts of stuff like this. I think that we
Speaker 3: shy away from that as a church one because we
Speaker 3: just don't want to get into it because I think
Speaker 3: it might cost us rear ends in the seats of
Speaker 3: our churches. Right, And so you start talking truth, and
Speaker 3: you start talking you've mentioned the possibility of the earth
Speaker 3: being flat as God describes and created. That's going to
Speaker 3: cost you, probably church attendants. And unfortunately it comes down
Speaker 3: to the business side of things of churches as well. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is what it is. Yeah, it's tough, you know,
Speaker 3: you don't And I think that's also what pastors kind
Speaker 3: of they It's a slippery slope what pastors have to do,
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't want to do it at all because
Speaker 3: I probably won't be very good at it, But they
Speaker 3: have to balance speaking truth, speaking God's word, and then
Speaker 3: they have to balance, you know, what we're taught outside
Speaker 3: of church, which you mentioned the number of hours of
Speaker 3: discrepancies that we're getting between the two. And you're so
Speaker 3: programmed from from the age of three four years old
Speaker 3: when you're going to a pre k first thing you
Speaker 3: see you walk into a pre k schoolroom is a
Speaker 3: globe or a map of the globe, and that is
Speaker 3: just programmed into you. And so I think we just
Speaker 3: need to do a better job of trying to contradict
Speaker 3: a little bit of maybe what we're hearing in the
Speaker 3: school systems, what we're hearing in the world, and just
Speaker 3: trying to find the truth behind that. But it leaves
Speaker 3: a lot of us flailing to be honest with these George,
Speaker 3: where we're just we're not sure what to believe. We're
Speaker 3: believers in Jesus. We know we eyed for us, we
Speaker 3: know he was real, but we don't know where he is,
Speaker 3: and we don't know the history behind everything, and how
Speaker 3: old is the earth? And did dinosaurs really exist? Or
Speaker 3: what are they finding right? And so there's just so
Speaker 3: many questions that I think people struggle with that when
Speaker 3: they become eighteen years old and they go off to college,
Speaker 3: they just say, well, you know, it's too much for me.
Speaker 3: I'm just not going to pursue it anymore.
Speaker 1: Well said, as we're kind of dissecting the globe, one
Speaker 1: of the things we run into and realize is NASA
Speaker 1: and the propaganda. And then as you do more research
Speaker 1: into it, you find out they're getting seventy million dollars
Speaker 1: a day, and then you see the Johnson Institute in
Speaker 1: Houston where it's the water and all of these things.
Speaker 1: What was your thoughts, I guess originally growing up, did
Speaker 1: you number one, believe that we went to the moon?
Speaker 1: And number two, how does that make you feel knowing
Speaker 1: that seventy million dollars of our a day, of our
Speaker 1: tax dollars go to basically Hollywood Studio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the unfortunate aspect of and I
Speaker 3: think as taxpayers, we need to pay a little bit
Speaker 3: more attention to where tax dollars are going. But when
Speaker 3: you look at what NASA is taken from this country,
Speaker 3: year in, year out to basically produce propaganda video for
Speaker 3: us to be lied to, it's interesting and it's so
Speaker 3: funny because we my daughter has a tournament, every basketball
Speaker 3: tournament every year, Adidas has their tournament down in Houston, Right,
Speaker 3: So what's in Houston. Oh, let's go see, you know,
Speaker 3: let's go see the NASA and alls. It's just to play.
Speaker 3: Part of me, just curiosity wants to just go there
Speaker 3: and ask a bunch of you know, off the wall,
Speaker 3: you know, really critically thinking type questions. But I just
Speaker 3: I can't even you know, fathom touring that place, just
Speaker 3: knowing now what I know and the lies that go
Speaker 3: into to NASA and who was behind it with Warner,
Speaker 3: Vron Braun and all these people and Walt Disney, and
Speaker 3: how much not only are we getting seventy million dollars
Speaker 3: Georgia year to NASA, how many millions and billions go
Speaker 3: into the movie industry that glorify this and show this
Speaker 3: type of thing. You know. I heard a speaker talk
Speaker 3: about He's like, have you ever seen the movie Gravity
Speaker 3: with George Clooney and Sandra Bullet. Well, yeah, I've seen
Speaker 3: that movie. Well, they spent one hundred million dollars on
Speaker 3: that movie. What do you think they could do with
Speaker 3: seventy billion dollars a year? Right? And that movie looked fantastic.
Speaker 3: It was super believable, it was super amazing. And so
Speaker 3: I think that when you go back to the Moon landing,
Speaker 3: we didn't have that technology. And I'm I'm not sure
Speaker 3: if NASA had the forethought to really think about, you know,
Speaker 3: when we're fifty years down the road, can we poke
Speaker 3: holes in the bs that they served us up in
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine. I think, you know, it's so glaringly
Speaker 3: obvious now that that particular spacecraft could not make it
Speaker 3: to the Moon. They could not get through the vat
Speaker 3: Alan Belt. That thing would have fallen apart about thirty
Speaker 3: thousand feet into the air. So I think that when
Speaker 3: it comes to NASA, not enough people know one the
Speaker 3: fact that you just spit out with the seventy you know,
Speaker 3: billion dollars, and I just think that there's just not
Speaker 3: enough awareness of what NASA is doing. And then you
Speaker 3: get these news stories of you know, these actronauts are
Speaker 3: now going to have to have, you know, scuba gear
Speaker 3: or they're gonna have to have snorkels in their helmets
Speaker 3: because they're filling with water. Why are they filling with water?
Speaker 3: What's going on? Right? And so I think that it's
Speaker 3: just it's interesting that we just take this information in
Speaker 3: and I would have fallen into this too, and you
Speaker 3: do a great job of we cannot condemn people for
Speaker 3: not knowing the truth, for not being awake to what's
Speaker 3: going on, because I was that person, right, and we
Speaker 3: were all that person at one point in time. And
Speaker 3: so just trying to create awareness and to try to
Speaker 3: get people to think critically and ask the right questions
Speaker 3: specifically when it comes to NASA is a huge It's
Speaker 3: an uphill battle. It shouldn't be an uphill battle, but
Speaker 3: it's an uphill battle because they just the truth sometimes
Speaker 3: is really difficult to hear.
Speaker 1: And that leads to my next question, which is impossible
Speaker 1: to answer. But isn't it interesting and is there any
Speaker 1: way going forward to even get people like you can't
Speaker 1: even get someone to look into it, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? You would think that after twenty twenty
Speaker 1: and all of that, you would at least get someone
Speaker 1: say just hey, hear me out and then take an
Speaker 1: hour watch this, this, and they won't even do it that.
Speaker 1: How what is it that makes the propaganda so strong?
Speaker 1: Is it the unwillingness to say I was wrong, you know?
Speaker 1: Or is it just psychological barriers?
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. I always tell people you never ever
Speaker 3: wake up in the morning. No one sets out to
Speaker 3: be a the flat earther. It's not a goal that
Speaker 3: you set out to be right, And so for me,
Speaker 3: it just happened by accident, and you know, whether it
Speaker 3: was God making sure. I saw those videos and my
Speaker 3: mind started churning just to push me into seeking the
Speaker 3: truth more. But nobody wakes up and says, you know,
Speaker 3: I want to be a flat earther today and I'm
Speaker 3: gonna do everything I can to become flat earth. It
Speaker 3: just happens. And so I think that people are really
Speaker 3: reluctant because they don't want to admit that they have
Speaker 3: been duped and lied to and that they bought into
Speaker 3: the lie, because it is a blow to our pride,
Speaker 3: you know, to say, all right, I believe to lie,
Speaker 3: whether it's somebody in our lives too, right, we just
Speaker 3: tend to ignore the truth at times, just because we
Speaker 3: don't want to have to admit the truth, because the
Speaker 3: truth can kind of hurt and sting and be a
Speaker 3: blow to our pride sometimes. So I think when it
Speaker 3: comes to the to the NASA story and what we're
Speaker 3: being taught and programmed in school, it's so embedded in
Speaker 3: us that it's hard for us to get over it, right,
Speaker 3: And you know, you just the bigger the lie. You
Speaker 3: just keep telling it, keep telling it, keep telling it,
Speaker 3: and eventually people will stop asking questions. And I think
Speaker 3: that's where we've come to in this world, is that
Speaker 3: we just stopped asking questions because we're like, you know, well,
Speaker 3: NASA exists for a reason, and why would they lie
Speaker 3: to us? And I think that's where you really got
Speaker 3: to get into it. So when I start talking to
Speaker 3: people when they find out, and it's usually my oldest
Speaker 3: daughter who outs me, well we're flat Earth. There's my
Speaker 3: dad's a flat Earth, And I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: here we go. Now I got to get into a conversation.
Speaker 3: So what I've noticed is is I can drop as
Speaker 3: many data points as as I can, and I can
Speaker 3: get into the science of flat Earth and all sorts
Speaker 3: of stuff like that. My question usually to them is,
Speaker 3: tell me why you believe in a glob birth the
Speaker 3: heliocentric model without talking about NASA, right, So let's get
Speaker 3: into the science of it all, without you just relying
Speaker 3: on Well, I saw pictures on the Internet, which we
Speaker 3: also know are cgi and fake and all sorts of
Speaker 3: stuff like that, but to them, it's real. So you've
Speaker 3: got to speak their language. So to them, they think
Speaker 3: those are real. All right, So let's take those out
Speaker 3: of the equation. Let's take NASA and what you've seen
Speaker 3: on the Internet as far as pictures out of the equation.
Speaker 3: Why do you believe in the heliocentric model of birth?
Speaker 3: And then they don't know because they don't know the
Speaker 3: science behind the heliocentric model and basically how the heliocentric
Speaker 3: model debunks the heliocentric model. And I think if they
Speaker 3: started looking into that a little bit more, they would
Speaker 3: realize it. So that's one question I always ask. I
Speaker 3: don't really get into throwing out a bunch of flat
Speaker 3: Earth facts to them right off the bat, because they're
Speaker 3: just going to shut down. So then I start engaging them, well,
Speaker 3: why do you think it's round? Take nass out of
Speaker 3: the question and tell me why you think the Earth
Speaker 3: is a globe? And they don't have usually any statistics
Speaker 3: or they don't know how fast the Earth is spinning,
Speaker 3: or how fast we're coutscrewing through the galaxy and how
Speaker 3: fast we're going around the Sun and flat Earth. There's
Speaker 3: no that because it helps our case to prove that
Speaker 3: it is incorrect.
Speaker 1: Do you think the science fiction push from the fifties on,
Speaker 1: like Star Wars, Star Trek and all these are intentional
Speaker 1: and psychological to reinforce the outer space and heliocentrism.
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely. I mean you look at the money that
Speaker 3: Star Wars and Star Trek and I grew up on
Speaker 3: all those movies, right. I remember last couple of days
Speaker 3: of fifth grade we had a whole Star Wars day
Speaker 3: and it was just we're going to be enthralled in
Speaker 3: space and Luke Skywalker and all that stuff. And the
Speaker 3: amount of money that Hollywood spends on pushing this story
Speaker 3: and pushing this propaganda is truly amazing. And you look
Speaker 3: at you know, all the like I said, Star Treks
Speaker 3: and Star Wars and Gravity and all the movies that
Speaker 3: are done in Hollywood. It's truly amazing what we see
Speaker 3: in our eyes. And to be honest with the George,
Speaker 3: it's fun. It's fun to watch, right, It's cool to
Speaker 3: watch and you're like, wow, this is amazing. And so
Speaker 3: we buy into that lie that that is possible, and
Speaker 3: we buy into the lie that we could at one
Speaker 3: point have you know, people living on the Moon or
Speaker 3: Mars and all sorts of stuff. It feels really good
Speaker 3: to think that way. And then you realize that all
Speaker 3: the pictures that we've seen a Mar are fake. They
Speaker 3: come from you know, Algeria and Devon Island, Canada and Greenland,
Speaker 3: and you're seeing exact photos that are tinted red of Mars,
Speaker 3: and then you see what it actually looks like on
Speaker 3: Earth and you're like, huh, that's the same exact picture.
Speaker 3: That's interesting. So I think that people again aren't asking
Speaker 3: the right questions, aren't doing their research, and I think
Speaker 3: it's just because it takes I mean, it can be
Speaker 3: exhausting at times, as you know, right, I mean, researching
Speaker 3: this stuff and finding out how much we're being lied to.
Speaker 3: It's truly an exhausting journey. But it's a worthwhile and
Speaker 3: really enriching journey that you can go through, but it
Speaker 3: takes time and you've got to invest in it. And
Speaker 3: I just think people are just, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: tired of it all, and there's a lot going on
Speaker 3: in the world and distractions are thrown at us left
Speaker 3: and right that we're just exhausted by the time we
Speaker 3: get home for the day and from work, and we'd
Speaker 3: rather just bed out in front of our phones or
Speaker 3: in front of our televisions and not ask the right questions.
Speaker 1: Indeed, and it's funny. JPL still to this day has
Speaker 1: a picture up on their website from twenty twelve supposedly
Speaker 1: from Mars, and there's like a rat or some kind
Speaker 1: of animal on the bottom left part of the screen
Speaker 1: and they've still left up to the day. That's just
Speaker 1: next level mockery. It makes the rounds on social media
Speaker 1: once or twice a year. We've mentioned NASA, we've mentioned
Speaker 1: biblical presuppositions of flat Earth. What would you say your
Speaker 1: other four bullets would be?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, when you're talking here, yours had the
Speaker 3: six silver bullets. I think number one has to be.
Speaker 3: You know, for me, it's the Bible. I mean, anytime
Speaker 3: when you read God's word, God's word is truth. And
Speaker 3: when we start taking that out and supplementing our human
Speaker 3: scientists into what the creation is and all sorts of
Speaker 3: stuff like that, I think we fall into a huge pitfall.
Speaker 3: The other thing that is taught in school that I
Speaker 3: had a hard time getting over was gravity, right, and
Speaker 3: in talking with gravity and you're trying to figure out, okay,
Speaker 3: does gravity exist? And then you realize that Neil de
Speaker 3: grass Tyson can't even describe what gravity is. He's been
Speaker 3: he's kind of he's put on the spot and he's like,
Speaker 3: tell us about gravity, what is gravity? Well, we don't
Speaker 3: know what gravity is, he says, And I'm like okay.
Speaker 3: So then I started looking into gravity more and it's
Speaker 3: just density and buoyancy is all it is. And it
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with us being grounded on this earth.
Speaker 3: But it's taught in school like it is a law
Speaker 3: and not a theory. I grew up thinking that gravity
Speaker 3: was a law and not a theory. I knew that
Speaker 3: the the evolution was a theory, and so I kind
Speaker 3: of went into that into eleventh grade science class very skeptical.
Speaker 3: But when it came to gravity, no one questioned it
Speaker 3: because it was put into your brain that it was
Speaker 3: this law of gravity, and it's not, and no one
Speaker 3: can explain it. No one knows what it is. It's
Speaker 3: just another piece of the narrative that they have to
Speaker 3: have to make them fit into the helocentric model of
Speaker 3: what we're being taught. And so to me, that was
Speaker 3: just so astronomically, you know, asinine in the fact that
Speaker 3: I grew up not knowing that gravity was a theory
Speaker 3: was embarrassing to me. Again, maybe what keeps people from
Speaker 3: researching more about flat Earth or any other conspiracies out
Speaker 3: there is that you have to kind of face yourself
Speaker 3: and be like, wow, I was duped and I you know,
Speaker 3: I didn't even know it, And so I think that
Speaker 3: to me was a blow to my ego as well.
Speaker 3: So gravity was another huge one for me. And you
Speaker 3: do a great job. Anybody listening who hasn't listened to
Speaker 3: your first ten podcasts, your very first ten where it's
Speaker 3: just you going over the facts and the figures and
Speaker 3: the scheme of it all with Walt Disney and Walter
Speaker 3: von Braun and all these things. They need to go
Speaker 3: back two hundred and twenty nine episodes or whatever it is,
Speaker 3: and listen to one one through ten because you do
Speaker 3: such a great job of dissecting it all and really
Speaker 3: showing the lies that we've been told our whole lives.
Speaker 3: And it's okay that we believed them. I mean a
Speaker 3: lot of people believe that. Most people believe them, but
Speaker 3: it's time that we kind of take a little self
Speaker 3: reflection and figure that out as well.
Speaker 1: Indeed, and you also mentioned gyroscopes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's interesting gyroscopes. So I have a my wife,
Speaker 3: her best friend from high school is a Delta pilot
Speaker 3: who flies you know, Europe back and forth, and she
Speaker 3: stationed out of Salt Lake City. And gyroscopes prove the
Speaker 3: Earth is flat. The fact that flight patterns. You were
Speaker 3: probably taught this too, that the great circle route, you
Speaker 3: know where you go. I remember when I was playing
Speaker 3: in Italy. I would fly from San Francisco to Italy
Speaker 3: and I would watch that god awful map that they
Speaker 3: display for you as you're flying right yea, and it
Speaker 3: was this high circle coming down into into Venice and
Speaker 3: I'm like, what, this makes zero sense, but we just
Speaker 3: all take it like it's supposed to be. I'm like, wow,
Speaker 3: I was top off, the Great Circle route, and because
Speaker 3: it's the globe, we've got to go really far on
Speaker 3: Earth to get south. And I'm like, that doesn't make
Speaker 3: much sense either. So I started talking to it to
Speaker 3: Beth a little bit and she wouldn't admit that the
Speaker 3: Earth was flat. But there is no curvature. They don't
Speaker 3: account for any curvature. We've seen all of the NASA
Speaker 3: documents saying that it's a flat stationary Earth, you know,
Speaker 3: and you need to fly as if it's a flat
Speaker 3: stationary Earth. Gyroscopes prove that. Flight patterns prove that, and
Speaker 3: so I think that's a hard one to you know,
Speaker 3: show people and say, look at these flight patterns. Do
Speaker 3: they make sense to you? Well, no, they don't. But
Speaker 3: my science teacher said, it's the Great Circle Route and
Speaker 3: that's why we have to do it, because of the helobe.
Speaker 3: And so I think we just need to examine ourselves
Speaker 3: a little bit more and what we've been taught. And
Speaker 3: to no fault of the science teachers, that's what they're
Speaker 3: told to teach, that's what they've learned. And so I
Speaker 3: don't want to, you know, come at all these high
Speaker 3: school science teachers that are misleading us. But the I
Speaker 3: go so deep that we you know, it's interesting you
Speaker 3: talked about NASA, right, Well, is everyone involved in NASA
Speaker 3: part of this lie? No, probably not, there's probably maybe
Speaker 3: you know, out of out of all of the people
Speaker 3: they employ, maybe five hundred people that could probably be
Speaker 3: involved in a lot like this. And we know the Freemasons,
Speaker 3: and what a freemations do they They love to lie
Speaker 3: into the public. Can absolutely absolutely, And so it's it
Speaker 3: doesn't take but a small group to deceive a large group.
Speaker 3: And I think that's where we've fallen into and we
Speaker 3: just we have this doctrine that we've been taught and
Speaker 3: we just kind of fall into it and it is
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and we should encourage everybody to ask questions
Speaker 1: about everything, Like go to AI or Google and start
Speaker 1: asking who writes our history books? And if you want
Speaker 1: to see the vegast answers and the history of of
Speaker 1: of Google, try asking that question. It is the vegue
Speaker 1: answer you will ever get. And that is something that
Speaker 1: everyone should be concerned with. Well, who is writing the
Speaker 1: textbooks that my children, you know, their brand is being
Speaker 1: propagated with That is a very serious question. Then when
Speaker 1: you go back and actually do the research and find
Speaker 1: out that people who were associated with Epstein owned those
Speaker 1: textbooks for many, many years, then maybe, just maybe you
Speaker 1: can get people to understand how big the conspiracy actually is.
Speaker 3: Well, you look at Carnegie and Rockefeller back in the day, right,
Speaker 3: their main goal was to make us working robots, right,
Speaker 3: and you fill us full of doctrine, and you know,
Speaker 3: teach them this and only teach them this. And I say,
Speaker 3: you know, I've even I've even dove into the conspiracy
Speaker 3: of Tartaria and then the free energy and and you know,
Speaker 3: you look at some of those those those photos from
Speaker 3: the Chicago Fair in the eighteen nineties, and you're like,
Speaker 3: how did they build these amazing facilities, amazing buildings using
Speaker 3: horse and buggy back in the day, right, and no
Speaker 3: power tools? And it's just people see that like, oh
Speaker 3: Chicago Fair is beautiful. Look at all these bums, Like
Speaker 3: do you not ask the questions of how this even happened?
Speaker 3: Like how how are we able to? So I think
Speaker 3: you can again, like you mentioned, you just you start
Speaker 3: with flat earth and then you just get exposed to
Speaker 3: all these other things. And I've gone down these rabbit
Speaker 3: holes where I'm just like, it's truly incredible the lies
Speaker 3: we've been sold and what I have believed in, what
Speaker 3: the world has believed, and it's just it's it's amazing.
Speaker 3: But you know, credit to flat Earth for getting me
Speaker 3: to to other lives out there, because I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: had it without it.
Speaker 1: So amen, I think the biggest rabbit hole for me
Speaker 1: flat Earth was one. But when I realized that the
Speaker 1: founder of the OSS his name is William Donovan, that
Speaker 1: he worked directly for the Rockefellers in the in the Morgans,
Speaker 1: the JP Morgan found Sure, then you start to realize
Speaker 1: that these countries are run by it's a corporation, and
Speaker 1: the bankers use us and the soldiers, the doctors, all
Speaker 1: of it. It's it's a scheme and all the money
Speaker 1: goes back to them, whether it's the medical textbooks, education,
Speaker 1: I mean education, What a ripoff? My goodness, it's something
Speaker 1: for sure. This has been an outstanding conversation. Was there
Speaker 1: any bullet points or subjects that you had on the
Speaker 1: list that you wanted to mention before we close?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you talk about other conspiracies, and you know,
Speaker 3: we were talking about the floods in Texas and the
Speaker 3: cloud seating and the chem trails that are going on.
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody again, that's a topic that no
Speaker 3: one really talks about. It started to kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: reach the surface a little bit with some of the
Speaker 3: floods and the cloud seating and the company that was
Speaker 3: involved in that. But you know, you look at all
Speaker 3: those certain things, and I don't know about you, George,
Speaker 3: but it's a beautiful We don't have a cloud in
Speaker 3: the sky today. And then all of a sudden, about
Speaker 3: mid afternoon, I'll start seeing planes fly over and chemtrails
Speaker 3: are going on. We're not supposed to worry about that,
Speaker 3: that's just exhaust and whatever. And then it just becomes
Speaker 3: this hazy, cloudy day and it's supposed to be for
Speaker 3: solar radiation protection and all this sorts of stuff, and
Speaker 3: it's just we're not asking the right questions. And then
Speaker 3: you start going down the rabbit trail of sunscreen. And
Speaker 3: that's a hot topic in our house right now, right
Speaker 3: all those chemicals that were spraying on and why are
Speaker 3: so many people getting skin cancer now than when there
Speaker 3: were my grandfather's age. I mean, he lived on a
Speaker 3: farm in North Dakota, and never used sunscreen his entire
Speaker 3: life and was just fine. And here we are putting
Speaker 3: on these chemicals and doing all sorts of things to
Speaker 3: protect us from the sun. When God gave us the sun,
Speaker 3: right and it's just it's amazing what he provides for us.
Speaker 3: And then we kind of tainted with our human nature
Speaker 3: and chemicals and it's just it's it's interesting. And you know,
Speaker 3: I was driving we were driving in North Dakota, speaking
Speaker 3: of the sun. We were driving to North Dakota for
Speaker 3: my daughter's orientation last week, and it was kind of
Speaker 3: a partly cloud He would rain a little bit, then
Speaker 3: it'd be sunny. It would rain a little bit to
Speaker 3: be sunny, and we've got I had my wife take
Speaker 3: this picture of the sun coming through the clouds, and
Speaker 3: literally you could draw a point in the sky to
Speaker 3: where the sun was because all the rays bent perfectly
Speaker 3: to the sun. Talking on the far right and left side,
Speaker 3: you had probably forty five degree angles coming right up
Speaker 3: to a perfect point. And the fact that the sun's
Speaker 3: ninety three milion miles away tells me that those rays
Speaker 3: should be coming straight down through the clouds and not
Speaker 3: at the angles that they were coming at us. And
Speaker 3: I was like, man, I look at that. You're trying
Speaker 3: to tell me that's ninety three million miles away. And
Speaker 3: my wife's eyes are wide open. She takes a picture
Speaker 3: of it and it turned out beautifully. There's just so
Speaker 3: many things out there. I could go into five G
Speaker 3: and Bluetooth as I'm talking to you. I have my
Speaker 3: AirPods in which I know are bad for me, and
Speaker 3: I try not to wear them often and for long
Speaker 3: periods of time. But you you know, you read Apple.
Speaker 3: No one reads the Apple instructions when they get a phone.
Speaker 3: You're not supposed to put your phone to your ear
Speaker 3: and have a conversation because you know, the radiation is
Speaker 3: too bad. It's like, wow, what you know the things
Speaker 3: that we don't know? And you tell people about this,
Speaker 3: they're like really, I'm like, yeah, you're not su used
Speaker 3: to put your phone to your ear. You're supposed to
Speaker 3: talk either on Bluetooth, which isn't great for you either
Speaker 3: or speaker or the wired headphones are supposed to be
Speaker 3: the best for you. So yeah, it's just there's so
Speaker 3: many things out there, George that I think that are
Speaker 3: just insane. And I look at the information that we're
Speaker 3: fed on a daily basis, The distractions that were fed
Speaker 3: on a daily basis, right, prime example was what about
Speaker 3: a week and a half ago, all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: on everybody's YouTube, Instagram and TikTok, was the Coldplay couple
Speaker 3: that was caught having an affair at the Coldplay concert. Okay,
Speaker 3: in less than twenty four hours, we knew everything we
Speaker 3: needed to know about that woman and that man yep,
Speaker 3: all right involved in that capture. Yet I look at
Speaker 3: the young man who attempted the assassination on Donald Trump,
Speaker 3: and we know nothing about him, and fun. That tells
Speaker 3: me that we're being fed a narrative to distract us.
Speaker 3: Here's the Coldplay couple. Everybody's enthralled talking about it on
Speaker 3: talk radio and sports talk radio. It was amazing. And
Speaker 3: yet the things that we need to know we don't
Speaker 3: know because that's not part of the propaganda that needs
Speaker 3: to be pushed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Same. But the I was talking to my son
Speaker 1: the other day is in the healthcare industry, I said,
Speaker 1: whatever happened to that kid that killed the CEO that
Speaker 1: went completely away? Oh? And that happened in Minnesota. That's
Speaker 1: that's right. I forgot about that.
Speaker 3: Another another beautiful Minnesota story for you. Yeah, exactly, and
Speaker 3: so it's yeah, exactly what do we know about him?
Speaker 3: I think he was he was arrested, and then we
Speaker 3: found out nothing about him. So yeah, it was a
Speaker 3: weird deal. But anyways, Yeah, it's just and then the
Speaker 3: Epstein distractions and everything that's going on with that. You know,
Speaker 3: nine to eleven there was you know, all those trillions
Speaker 3: of dollars missing, and it's just the things that we
Speaker 3: don't know and then the things that we do know
Speaker 3: super details about. We've got to start asking questions, why
Speaker 3: why is the cold Play couple on everybody's algorithm today? Right?
Speaker 1: What should we be looking for right now?
Speaker 3: Whenever I see that? And that's exactly what I said
Speaker 3: in years ago, three four years ago, George, I would
Speaker 3: have never said this. It's the first thing I said
Speaker 3: to my family as we're kind of scrolling through social
Speaker 3: media getting caught up. All of us had it on
Speaker 3: our algorithms, and I'm like, what else do we need
Speaker 3: to be paying attention to? Because this is a distraction
Speaker 3: to something else that's.
Speaker 1: Going on one hundred percent. And I should mention you
Speaker 1: opened with the weather modification. You know, when you're having
Speaker 1: that conversation with a friend or family member. Just show
Speaker 1: them Operation Popeye. It's in black and white. Show them
Speaker 1: the patents that go back to eighteen hundreds, it's in
Speaker 1: black and white. And then what is the latest distraction
Speaker 1: or thing which you know? Here we are on the
Speaker 1: Flat Earth community. For the last two or three days,
Speaker 1: it's been a mysterious object spotted in space, could be
Speaker 1: a hostile alien spacecraft, and it could attack our planet.
Speaker 1: In November, and this has been whoever the New York
Speaker 1: Post and again that came hours just after Trump said
Speaker 1: a Harvard president was on the f Stein list. All
Speaker 1: of this, it's like, where should we really be looking?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 3: Where should we be looking? As soon as we hear
Speaker 3: a distracting story, the very first question we should ask is,
Speaker 3: all right, what else is going on in the world,
Speaker 3: Because there's something else that they don't want us to
Speaker 3: really dig into or know anything about. So let's distract
Speaker 3: them with meaningless gossip and entertainment, and we eat it up. Unfortunately, George,
Speaker 3: we eat it up right every time as a world,
Speaker 3: we eat it up, and it leads stories on newscasts
Speaker 3: and all sorts of stuff like that. But I think
Speaker 3: where we've gotten away from and you talk about it
Speaker 3: a lot on your podcast, is we just don't teach
Speaker 3: kids in school how to critically think. We're programmed to
Speaker 3: think a certain way and if you ask questions, you're dismissed.
Speaker 3: And so I think that the more we can teach
Speaker 3: people to critically think, it doesn't mean that everything's not true.
Speaker 3: But go find out for your Go find out for yourself,
Speaker 3: you know, and do the research and figure things out.
Speaker 3: Again goes back to my point of that that can
Speaker 3: be exhausting at times, so we tend to just be
Speaker 3: tired and we just kind of take the truth for
Speaker 3: what it is. And I don't have time to really
Speaker 3: research this. But the more we research, the more we know,
Speaker 3: and the more we really find out the true scheme
Speaker 3: of this world and who's in charge. And you talk
Speaker 3: about it a lot, George, and this is Satan's realm,
Speaker 3: and we're being distracted often to distract us from getting
Speaker 3: into God's word.
Speaker 1: Amen, keep your own the price. What a great conversation.
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time this morning, and as always we
Speaker 1: give our guests the final work.
Speaker 3: Well again, super sad that this podcast is going away,
Speaker 3: but completely get why, and you're going to be doing
Speaker 3: some amazing things with your church plant. I think that's
Speaker 3: just an amazing adventure that you're on and something that's needed.
Speaker 3: And so I just want to thank you personally for
Speaker 3: everything you've done for those of us who are kind
Speaker 3: of struggling and trying to figure out what's going on,
Speaker 3: and as we're kind of getting into our flat Earth
Speaker 3: story and uncovering the truth, when I can go into
Speaker 3: a podcast and search flat Earth and yours is the
Speaker 3: top search for me, and I can kind of get
Speaker 3: involved in that, and it's been such an eye opening
Speaker 3: sixteen eighteen months from me just listening to your podcast.
Speaker 3: So I just, first of all, just wanted to say
Speaker 3: thank you to that. You know, I think when it
Speaker 3: comes to flat Earth, when it comes to really anything
Speaker 3: in this world, I think we need to ask because
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are skeptical. Why the lie, right,
Speaker 3: Why the lie? Why would they lie about Epstein? Why
Speaker 3: are they lying about, you know, flat Earth? Why are
Speaker 3: they lying about anything NASA? And I think that we've
Speaker 3: really got to get to the point of the lie
Speaker 3: is about distracting us from the truth that God has
Speaker 3: just literally given us in front of our faces, and
Speaker 3: everything on this earth is set upon us to be distracted,
Speaker 3: to not pursue the truth, and to just accept what
Speaker 3: is told to us. And I think that when we're
Speaker 3: trying to weigh the options of who to believe and
Speaker 3: what should I believe as we're doing our research and
Speaker 3: what we're doing our research in I really press people.
Speaker 3: And I can't credit the guy who said it, but
Speaker 3: I was. I was watching a podcast, a video podcast,
Speaker 3: and he said, when I'm weighing the options of do
Speaker 3: I believe in flat earth or do I believe what
Speaker 3: the government is telling us? And he says, just let
Speaker 3: God be true and every man a liar. And I
Speaker 3: think that that is so correct, and if we can
Speaker 3: have an honest conversations with ourselves about the government, human
Speaker 3: nature in general, the lie is always about money, power,
Speaker 3: whatever is you know, entailed within that, and we have
Speaker 3: to accept that we're being lied to on a daily basis,
Speaker 3: and it's up to us to kind of filter through
Speaker 3: all of that stuff that we need to filter through.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, for me, it's it's when I
Speaker 3: heard that quote, I'm like, yes, you know, and as
Speaker 3: a believer, that hit me rate in the heart right,
Speaker 3: But I also think for maybe people who are pursuing Jesus,
Speaker 3: they're not really sure about who this Jesus guy is.
Speaker 3: And do I give my life to this would I
Speaker 3: would definitely say do some research. I think the more
Speaker 3: you get into flat Earth, the more you get into
Speaker 3: if you realize the world that we live in, you'll
Speaker 3: realize that there's a greater force at play and that
Speaker 3: will bring you closer to Jesus in your life at
Speaker 3: times as well. So for me, I just encourage everybody
Speaker 3: who's listening to this podcast, thank you, and just continue
Speaker 3: to fight the good fight, continue to do the research,
Speaker 3: continue to ask the right questions and critically think, and
Speaker 3: I think at the end of the day will be
Speaker 3: a better place for it. And again, George Is, thank
Speaker 3: you for what you've done for this community and what
Speaker 3: you're currently doing with your next chapter in your life.
Speaker 3: And just really thankful for people like you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the kind words. God bless
Speaker 1: you and your family and your journey. You know, your
Speaker 1: journey is a reflection of many of ours. And I'm
Speaker 1: truly blessed to have a wonderful wife that keeps me humble.
Speaker 1: Un this month as well. Twenty five We met April
Speaker 1: twenty seventh of two thousand and we were married less
Speaker 1: than four months later, and you go, you know, and
Speaker 1: here we are twenty five years in just a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. So when you know, you know George exactly,
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what it was. So God bless you
Speaker 1: and your family, and to all the listeners, thank you
Speaker 1: for your continued support. And God bless each and every
Speaker 1: single one of you. And until we meet again, my friends,
Speaker 1: we will see us.
Speaker 4: See the shadows creeping through my mind.
Speaker 7: A world.
Speaker 8: The fashions left my soul behind the curls face. They
Speaker 8: turned to gray and stone. I lost in silence, wondering
Speaker 8: all alone, hot fire.
Speaker 4: With the flames gone cold, late of sin. It's takeing, save,
Speaker 4: by grace of God. I'm rising again in the dark
Speaker 4: through the pain where the light bulb save ry grace
Speaker 4: of God.
Speaker 7: I'm making a shade from the ashes.
Speaker 4: I crawl through the fire.
Speaker 7: In the streets are empty, but the ghost still call,
Speaker 7: the whispers eccho off these broken walls.
Speaker 4: I let my dreams in shades of Mina Bu, but
Speaker 4: every step it leads me back to you.
Speaker 6: And mustles are river but it's.
Speaker 5: Drawn.
Speaker 4: I'm reaching upward to the crimsons. Save by the grace
Speaker 4: of God. I'm rising again through the dark, through the
Speaker 4: pain where the.
Speaker 6: Light won't name, by the grace of God. I'm breaking
Speaker 6: the change from the ashes. I crawl through the fire
Speaker 6: and rain, such all weaves it cuts through the night,
Speaker 6: A fleeting spark in this endless fight. The heavens tremble,
Speaker 6: the stars burned low, but Grace keeps calling.
Speaker 1: Where the lost one's going?
Speaker 4: I see the dog is breaking through the hays, A
Speaker 4: fleeting mercy in this endless maze.
Speaker 6: The chain's arrested, the fallen to the ground. By the
Speaker 6: grace of God, my soulsman found save by the grace
Speaker 6: of God. I'm rising again through the dark, through the
Speaker 6: pain where the light won't save, by the grace of God.
Speaker 6: I'm breaking the chains from the should not crawl through the.
Speaker 4: Fire and rain.
Speaker 2: Oh save five grace, m hold I'm free, shad a fame.
Speaker 2: They came, hold me, Save my The grace of God
Speaker 2: was in stayd pay with the line let the darkest case.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'am.