Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekenana Show.
Let's talk a little bit about something different today. Thomas,
how are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for hosting me. Yeah, we
can talk about we can change up the we can
change up the subject definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get back to the Cold War on the
next one. But I've read Yaki. I started reading Spangler
one of the essays that you recommended, and it just
speaks to me, really speaks to my heart. And I
know that Spangler and especially Yaki are a big part
of your of your thought, and you're where you've taken
a lot of inspiration from. So I thought we'd do
a little episode. And I think they go together because
Yaqui uses so many, so many spanglerisms and seems to
have really dug deep into his work and integrated into
his work. So I guess let's start with the original.
What is it about Spangler that attracted you first?
Speaker 2: Well, frankly, especially as the Cold War resolved, Spangler was
Spangler was one of these was one of the only
what would you consider esoteric kind of thinkers that they
came to before the Internet. There's a two volume it
was it was a bridge, but it was the it
was the two valume abridged version of Decline of the West.
And I think Harvard University Press had put out in
the fifties with at the Double Check. It was part
of this whole series on political theory, like Hans and
Morgan Thou, who's actually worth reading, and yes he's part
of that. He was part of that Morgan Thou family.
And he was for a time, uh New York attorney
state Attorney general and then and then uh he was
some kind of state department hancho. But at any event,
I think it was Harvard University Press. There's this whole
series on on like footable theory, okay, and they had
those at like my local like Cook County Branch Library,
like around like north of glen View and come across
Spangler and stuff like Instoration Magazine and the like National
Alliance Lit and stuff like that and something. It was
over my head because I wasn't I mean, this was
like a teenager and I hadn't really dived into Hagel
yet and like Aristotlin things. But what reallyion on me
was again, you know, this was like literally as the
Cold War was ending and there was discourse was really
weird then because it was still semi serious and you
had serious guys who were kind of weighing in and
what the implications were, you know, of of Soviet collapse
and what kind of globalism would look like, and you
know what the implications were just kind of like across
the board, you know, because everybody realized this, this is this, this,
this is a profound event. This is like an Apockel event.
To see what week it's okay? And I was kind
of seeking up sources to just try and put this
in better perspective, and there was not much, I mean,
there was this. I mean admittedly, like I just said,
you know that the tenor at discourse was it was
elevated committed today, but there was not a lot of
other than the kind of like into history kind of
midway stuff there. You know, there wasn't a lot to
put this in comic, especially for a young person. When
I started reading Spangler, what such that I could understand it.
And again it took me probably about like a decade
to really get like a complete understanding of Spangler. But
what jumps out of me is the symbolic psychological quality
to cultural forms and what he called prime symbols of
those forms. And I've always been somebody who puts a
strong emphasis on symbolic psychology. Okay, and if you believe
in true racial differences, I don't just mean you know,
like at the biological level, I'm not talking about you know,
I'm not talking about you know, the relative bone density
of insular breeding populations. I'm not talking about you know,
people's ratio of fast which the slopes, which muscle fibers,
and I'm not talking about their IQ like. I'm talking
about deep meticultural phenomenon that for that that somehow, some
way insinuates itself into people's minds and conceptual horizons across generations. Okay,
it's not it's not clear exactly how that happens. Okay,
it's it's a combination of biology, it's a combination of
cultural learning. I mean, it's combination of biology with culture
and cultural learning as well as other other I think
epigen when I think of epigenetic variables that are well understood.
But Spango really put this in perspective, okay, that there
are these prime symbols there. These things are quite literally
you know, characterize you know, kind of the the core uh,
the core essence of cultural forms and and and the
and these and these prime symbols resonate pretty much through
through everything that culture does, you know, especially in power
political terms, because that's kind of the zenus of cultural
activity in all kinds of ways. And it's the most
critical because there's existential considerations they're relating to racial survival,
but even everything from like the food kind of foods
they cook, you know, the kind of that they favor,
and like, you know, the clothing they wear, and and
the kind of you know, artwork they create. You know,
this this is basically how people understand themselves, but not
just how they understand themselves, how they understand themselves in
the world relative to other peoples, but also kind of
like what they view their sort of existential narrative as
as like as a as a self aware culture, I
mean that itself is kind of not kind of that
that itself is very much you know, like a modernist,
uh arguably postmodern sensibility. You know, people actually being like
aware of things like cultural horizons, you know, cultural conceptual
horizons and prime symbols they're in. You know, how these
things are impactful in terms of in terms of how
you know, people create a sustain you know, all all
the phenomena that we consider severally to be like cultural activity.
But the fact that you know, like like like awareness
of that and awareness of it is like a discrete
phenomenon that doesn't somehow like put people like outside of it. Okay,
so and and Spangler accounters for that too. But that's
the reason why. I mean initially that's like what really
kind of like got me into you know, deep diving
into into Spanglerian thought. But also you know, Spangler was
a one of the things I really put him on
the map. He had a renaissance in the sixties and seventies,
is people were kind of looking outside of uh you know,
the uh the kind of the kind of international relations
quantitative model for for understanding you know, cultural behavior. You know,
it's a lot and like I mean, that's definitely I'm
saying like youngin theory like came back into vogue too.
I'm not comparing the two. I think there's some value
to be found in Young, but I think Spangler is
quite a bit more of a rigorous thinker. But my
point is this kind of stuff came back into vogue
like decades later but you know Spangler, he really was
like an inner war theorist, okay, and that's one of
the reasons why you know, Hitler wanted an audience with him,
you know, kind of anybody who's anybody in Germany, you know,
people you know, like like people on the far left,
you know, like reactionary monarchist types. You know, Hitler himself.
You know, Spangler was a man about town because he
was up on something people view as profound. But beyond that,
I mean, aside from you know, kind of the merit
on his own terms of his of his sort of
conceptual vision or his kind of theoretical model. You know,
he was very much observing these things, you know, kind
of like in their epoch, you know, and he was
he was very much you know, if you want to
talk about punctuated decline in crisis and you know what
and kind of like you know, a culture's self conscious
efforts to survive late bare not just the miss modernity,
but a miss you know, like an ex potential crisis
relating to you know, a power political event of truly
kind of like world sheeking proportions. I mean, that was
the Great War, and that was a situation of the
German Empire and to a lesser degree, you know, the
Austro Hungarian their Austro Hungarian allies. But you know that
and and and that, and there was not a lot
of real scholarship about that that could be viewed as
kind of the the air apparent that people like fit
the in my opinion, But beyond that, I mean, beyond
spending with cultural resonance, like in his epoch, he was
trying to answer the question like what was happening in Germany?
Like what you know, what there was there was some
kind of collision going on between you know, the way
people understood themselves, you know, racially and Parkley and you know,
their ability to live in the world. And uh, you
know this was both this this was both obviously like
intrinsically bound up with the Great War and that's why
the Great War happened, but also just like internally, it's
not some it's not an accident that you know, the
Bolshek Revolution you know, happened, you know, just on on
the immediate heels of World War One, and it wasn't
just because like well this was you know, a crisis
modality kind of attempted remedy. You know, as the Russian
state kind of collapsed on itself, like due to the
fact they were losing the war. I mean, yeah, that
was like an immediate catalyst, but that that was not
why it was. That was not why it was approximately
immerging in absolute terms, Okay, it was these things came,
these things emerged from the same like nucleus of causal
variables or operative variables, and you know, the inability of
culture is to kind of like not just live historically,
but survive as discreet you know, like kind of modalities
of human life an organization. That really is kind of
like the crisis of modernity for European men, like non
whites and non Europeans, that impacts them too in a
huge way. The Japanese impacted just as much as Europeans were.
But what we think of now is the Global South,
Like they weren't really but like their kind of apocalyptic
event was you know, the fact that European culture kind
of collided with their culture like while the Europeans were
enduring this process as well, and that really really cost havoc.
That's a little bit more complicated, but the fact is
that you know, now, if you're gonna say, like well
Spangler did, this wasn't anything new, you know. Uh, Hegel
dealt with this. Uh, Nietzsche dealt with this and everybody
like on the nose kind of way. And yeah, that's true.
But Nietzsche was real likely talking about something different like
Nietsch wasn't writing about like power, political behavior and activity
and like very concrete terms. I mean, Spangler appears like abstract,
you know, to somebody who's like inundated with either analytic
philosophy or somebody who's kind of like you know, or
somebody who's kind of like uh habituated, like you know,
the kind of Anglo like rationalist tradition. But I mean
Spangler was very much it's like okay, like you know,
kind of like abstract and like airy and continental oriented
as he was in philosophical terms, he was he was
dealing very much with like emerging again like existential crises
that like Europeans we were dealing with in the epoch. Okay,
And that's not something uh that that that that's not
something that philosophers generally did. Okay, I don't I think
a Spangler it's kind of a pure like it's kind
of a pure like playable theorist who's who's uh whose
whose kind of life's work was to identify, you know,
the historical process and this relationship the culture and race. Okay,
real lard, I I I think the from philosopher is
kind of a dumb term in the modern age, but
I I whatever, I mean, even if we accepted as
totally valid, I think a Spangler is kind of in
the terms that I just described. But bring it back
a little bit. You know, so pre Internet, you know,
is like a fifteen sixteen year old kid, you know,
you're you're you you really really the tools you had
to kind of put things in perspective conceptually, you know,
it was what you could find it like you know,
the public library or like what you could find you know,
by like Poach, like cruising university libraries to grab what
they had. So I realized, like reading Spangler, like I was,
I'm like, okay, like this is putting things in the
spective in a way that makes sense, you know. In
this this especially, he's understanding kind of like the tragedy
of of the you know, the kind of the German
situation in the twentieth century. And from there, I'd run
across the name Francis Parker. Yaki a whole lot owing
in part too. I was always reading Willis Carter's stuff,
you know, American Free Press, which I still like periodically
pick up today. But Cardo is kind of a he
was kind of peculiar because, uh, in a lot of ways,
he was kind of just like a conventional like America firster,
like right wing type guy, like anti communists. But he's
the guy I really put Yaki on the map for,
you know, for like American audiences of just like regular people.
I mean, Yaki was doing some very strange things of
his life. I don't even in cunative terms. I mean
he was probably uh he was probably a Warsaw pack
intelligence agent. He was like kind of the cosumon van ERTs,
like JACQUI was trying to convince the man the street
of the merit of his ideas. You know, he was discripped.
I mean he I think the first front Runavan period
was like five hundred copies. And then I mean that
wasn't just because like he wasn't flush with money. He
had no intention of like distributing this, you know, to
millions of people. But and then even Cardo, even though
Carlo's personal kind of ideological uh bearing didn't have anything
to do with Yaki. He was one of the last
people to see Yaki alive because when Yaki was arrested,
Carter went to visit him because he knew who he was.
It's not evenly clear like how that is. But Cardo
was a rich guy, and he was pretty connected and
he he seemed to just like know things until the
end of his life, like he I mean that that's
a whole another episode that we could cover, like kind
of a mystery of willis Cardo. But if he read
Cardo Publication's nearly nineties, whether it was a noon tight
press books or whether it was you know, American free press,
like fantasy, Yaki was always hot, popping up, you know,
And so I'm like, what is this all about? And
in instoration they made point that like, well, you know,
Imperium is uh is the sequel to you know, Spanglers,
Decline of the West and the Our Decision and you
know man in Technics and all these and all these
things are gonna severally caustic like Spanglers, you know, like
diagnosis of of you know, the the twentieth century, the
inner Warriors, if you will. So I sought it out.
I found Imperium had used the bookstore. They specially ordered
it for me because that's what we had to do
in those days. And I started like diving into it.
And the case of Yaqui, Yaqui's polemics, some people think
it's overwrought. To understand it. Yaqui was, uh, you know,
he was he was this upper class Uh he he was.
He basically like this upper class that kind of like
Norrath store dude. You know, he's using born in Chicago
all the way. He lived a lot of his life
in Michigan, you know, educated and Catholic schools, which at
that time are kind of elite, like at least where
he went. You know, people then like wrote in a
kind of like floor language. It wasn't a kind of
like obnoxious, like moronic soaring language like like people attempt today.
But you know that a couple of the fact that
Yaqui was a trial lawyer. You know that that's kind
of the way to understand his style, which I understand
like put some people off, but I found it highly
resonant because he was one of the few. I mean,
yaquently thought more like a European than he did, you know,
an American, and a lot of that owes to his
cultural Catholicism. I'm not saying that punitively, quite the contrary,
but so, I mean he he gets sexualized things a
bit differently in somebody like I would in terms of
you know what he initially found himself attracted to or
instinctively rather than initially. But you know, Yaqui put he
kind of put the European experience in like an American context.
He you know, and tied this into a Hitler's significance.
You know, the people in Anglophone societies, you know who
who found themselves you know, sympathetic to the Axis cause
in very absolute term, which at that time you know,
it was like very much like a hot issue when
there was more people who felt that way than is
often acknowledged. I mean the uh, you know, the America
First Committee was not something that I mean they had
Broadway support. So I mean that was I mean Yaqui's book,
it was I mean Reading Imperium. Part of it is
you know, apologia for you know, kind of America First
in like deep philosophical terms, but also uh, you know
it it puts in context the then you know, emergent
Cold War and what in Yaki's view was truly at stake,
and that was pretty revolutionary. And Yaka made the point
again and again, and one of his essays, which is
hard to find now, it was called in the year
two thousand, Yaqui predicted the Soviet Union would break apart,
just like Kennon, did you know. He's like, this isn't sustainable.
You know, the USSR as we know it is not
going to exist, you know, in fifty years. But he's like,
Russia will still exist, and at some point point we're
gonna have to deal with these people number one, you know,
like us as like you know, occidental white Westerners or
whatever your preferred kind of the scriptor is. But also
you know, he said, you know, his point was that
like Russia even you know, when when it when it's
when it's when the kind of artificial like modernist guys
you know, of of communism like sloughs off of it.
It's it's gonna be truly emergent, as you know, a
kind of antithesis element you know to the uh the
basically judaic American you know, uh, you know, uh h ethos,
and uh, that's very true. I mean Yaki was not
like a Russophile in fact, in a lot of ways,
like he kind of looked down on Slavs. And I
mean that's clear. I mean the guy who was very
much like a national socialist. So like everybody, people people
have to be stupid on purpose about Yaqui and for
and either say that like to sympathetic to cool Bolshevikism,
which is fucking retarded, or that he was like some
kind of like Russophile who just like loved was like
sitting around like I don't know, I get like reading
the Brothers Karmezov or something like. That's not at all
what he's saying. You know. What he was saying is that,
you know, a truly unipolar world where you've got you know,
basically kind of uh, you know, you've truly got this.
You know, you've got a single locui of of a
global power you know, in America, and it's and it's
kind of client regimes all of which are basically, you know,
kind of reduced to appendages of this this it's literally
like you know, Jewish and kind of deteriorated, you know,
kind of like post cultural anglophone mode of of of
a I'm not just you know, I'm not as like,
not as a cultural organization, but of like ethical disposition,
you know. And that's that's basically the worst possible outcome
you can imagine for culture, Okay, and uh, really the
only way to mitigate that is do uh it's for you.
I mean, Europe's gonna stand with Russia for pragmatic reasons,
but also again, like it doesn't matter if you like
Russia or hate Russia, this is totally irrelevant. I mean
that Russia is the natural counterweight to that tendency in
all kinds of ways, because Russia is basically anti American
and Russia is basically like rapidly anti Jewish. Okay, it's
Russia anti European. Yeah, they are. And don't understand the
Bolshek Revolution is kind of like, you know, the the
kind of the kind of primitive indigenous like Peasants Slavic element,
you know, finding common cause and alliance with uh, you know,
the cosmopolitan Jewish mercantile element to literally exterminate you know,
the European overtask that you know, had reigned and Russia
since the days of the Varangian Russ Okay, but that
doesn't matter. Again, it's not there's not a risk of
Russia becoming this. There is not. It has not been
a risk of Russia becoming this you know, truly global
power since nineteen eighty nine. It's this idea that like, well,
you know, Russia is just as bad as you know,
what we're dealing with. Now, that's not true at all.
That doesn't make any sense, and not just because in
terms of like power, projection, capability and potentiality, but you
know the reason why it sounds like a trivial thing,
but the one of the short poppings of warsaw pack
and man control. In terms of integrated forces, there was
a short like like like Russian officers wouldn't bother to
learn German a lot of the time, you know, there
was like literally like a language barrier between like them
and like you know, like you know, like national Volks,
aren't you forcing under their command? You know, things like
there's just there was like a distance there, you know,
the like if you want to understand how why the
American and kind of cultural genocide social engineering of Germany
was possible, it's because like an Anglophone society, you know,
a basically cosmopolitan European society like America still was, like
America was definitely in nineteen forty nine and still somebody
is today that was anglophoning character that's able to insinuate
itself into into German culture almost like at the cellular level.
I mean people say the thing of being silly, but
I think it almost like the thing, you know, like
the Little Horror movie, like that was just not possible
for Russians, you know, like the Soviet Union, even if
they said about even if you know, even if that
had been kind of like a dedicated effort of there
is like look we're gonna we're gonna truly kind of
like rucify you know, the DDR, it wouldn't have worked,
you know, like it just wouldn't have you know you're
talking about truly. Yeah, in like border areas especially, you know,
like you would yeah, there would have been people who
are basically like you know, like like Slavonic Germans, but
generally like he wouldn't you you wouldn't have had like
every like you know, every like East German school kid
like just like casually learning Russian by osmosis and like
you wouldn't have had like, you know, German ladies deciding
y' all wanted to look like the Russian women in
the magazines, like you wouldn't. I mean, like that just
would not happen, okay, And that stuff you better believe
that happened in the boon this republic, Okay. And it
wasn't just because like, oh, America's got good propaganda and
Coca cola, you know, I mean that's these are real things, okay.
So all of that. Taking it back to kind of
get an original query, I mean that that that kind
of is what being to like put the world in perspective
to me, And I always knew there was something wrong
post Reagan. I think Bush forty one was a pretty
and within the bount of rationality of you know, kind
of uh of of what American government is and has
been in nineteen thirty three. I think Bush forty one
is basically a serious guy and a good commander in chief,
even if I I've got nothing nice to say about
him otherwise. But even by nineteen ninety one ninety two,
there was this kind of like bizarre triumphulist language ceeping
into American discourse that just made me WinCE and you know, uh,
I could tell that the cultures being coarsened. I don't
I don't just mean like, you know, things becoming kind
of like more like lord and pornographic, but it's part
of it. But I mean like things would be were
becoming like less and less serious and just kind of
like just more and more like idiotic, you know, and
it uh, you know, I realized kind of like yawning
chasm here where there should be like a culture, you know,
when it and they had a couple of the fact
that I realized it's I'm everybody's sick of hearing this
and it you know, often I just saw some cantankerous
old guy telling people to confort blessings. But the early
nineties in America really were like really fucked up. I
mean you remember that, and you know, like racilations were
in the toilet, you know, like I literally have to
like think about like where I couldn't couldn't go, like
I'm talking about it, drones like Chicago hoods, like you'd
like fucking get killed and like you know, from being
white and like that's not that way.
Speaker 1: Remember the freaking Special Forces was literally in Los Angeles.
Oh yeah, two thousand Korean businesses were burnt to the ground.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's more in the streets and the marines.
The fat of my Iraq, we're fucking shooting it out
with like the grave street crips and stuff. But you know,
like it's not like bad people think things are today
and then like a marriage in a bad place. They
don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna like if I
like disembarking Garbield park of the bus, like I'm not
gonna get my ass like fucking stopped into this cement
like for being white. That's not gonna happen, Okay. In
nineteen ninety two, that absolutely would happen. Okay. So it's
like all these things on like my teenage mind, like
YAQUI really put this in perspective, you know, I mean,
there's not I'm the first. I'm always telling people, especially youngsters,
like like you can't you can't like find answers to
the world, especially like politics, like in books, and you can't.
It's like the wrong there's not like a crystals version
into like you know, political occurrences or something. But in
fear terms, particularly in a place like America where there's
where there's there's like bizarre signaling and in terms of
the propaganda narrative that doesn't really make sense and is
that distracted from any kind of concrete experience. It is
essential to have, you know, kind of like the pole
stars as it were, like the parameters rather like provided
by you know, like theoretical scholarship. And Yaki, Yeah, I
realized Yaqui is a polemisist. I realize he's like a
big national socialist. He's not, and he didn't like for
it to be like, oh, I'm this objective kind of
like diagnostition of historical processes. But Yaki, you really put
everything in perspective of me, like, Okay, this is why
the this, this, this is why the this is why
the problem in the ground with the races is the
way it's in America. You know, this is why the
culture seems so coarse and just like moronic. This is
like what it's trying to accomplish. You know, this is
why like the leadership cast seems so like flavoringly like
either just corrupt or disengaged. Because this is why at
that time in Europe two like you know, tu Jma's
Croatia like helmet Cole in a kind of one of
the most singularly patriotic acts post war by German Chancellor
immed the recognizing the pendent state of Croatia. Uh, you know,
and then and and then and and Bush and Baker
like hit the roof when he did that. But that
that's what prevented like, uh, you know, some kind of
a you know, some some some kind of contrivance of
you know, democratic Yugoslavia from enduring and uh you know
the Croati the twos one Croatio was a national social
state literally, okay, something that that came into perspective too,
and like why you know, like that where like that
was that was literally unfinished business, you know, from nineteen
forty five. I mean that's kind of how I me.
That's pretty much like how it came to Yackey and
then I from there. Uh. I've uh, I've kind of
moved beyond like based just about everything I've read I
was reading when I was a teenager, except for stuff
like obviously like Aristotle and and and and like. But
you know, I continue to defend Yaki you particularly, and
I found I don't believe these like internet guys, especially
in university types. I mean a lot of these guys,
they they never read what I write. I think they
like see the way I look or something, and they
they act like a haughty and like act like I'm
stupid or something. Then they realize like I'm not stupid,
so they just kind of like attack like what I
cite as like authoritative and the Yaki is ridiculous. That's
just like you know, you might as well read like
skinhead magazines. It's like, I don't believe you've read Francis Yaki.
That's what your take. Yeah, I mean it's not it's
it's intellectually highly rigorous, Like I said, you can say
his language is like overwrought in the way that frankly,
you know people who's kind of introduction to to uh
you know, like adult intellectual life of apprentis a lot
and that's unfortunate. But uh, like you can't say it's
like not serious and then it's like some stupid like
racialist like rant or something like it's not you know.
So I don't I believe a lot of like what's
levied against Yaki, particularly by these liked of still appointed
like academic gatekeeper types. I don't believe they've like even
a right imperium, you know, put imperiums like seven hundred pages.
You know, it's like it's and it's it's it's pretty
heavy stuff, you know, like it's not just that you
can like flip through like a couple hours on a Saturday.
So I think a lot of like what people say,
you know, to kind of make fun of people say, yuck,
you don't think they really read it, but they pretend
it's like reading like George Lincoln Rockwell or something like,
it's not it's not at all, you know, like it's
totally and uh, I mean the point of people too.
And this is a bit of a tangent, but you
know the Falcon, the Snowman, which is a fascinating story
and like a great film, and Chris Boyce, you know,
the guy, I mean, he was a real guy. I
mean that that movie really happened, and basically it happened
the terms presented. But he had a blog in the
two thousands when he got into prison. He didn't got
a prison until like two thousand and three or something,
you know, but he uh, you know, and he didn't
want to talk a lot about his espionage charges, but
he what he did say, and we did reiterate, was that,
you know, he had no affinity for the Soviet Union
or for communism at all, you know, and he's like,
I never started identifying as like as a practicing cantalic.
You know, he's like, but America couldn't be allowed to
just win the Cold War in absolute terms any more
than the Soviet Union to be allowed to do that.
And he was right, you know, boys said that he
had the energy and and kind of fervor of a
young man and thinking he could change these things like
you can't, okay, like nothing any one man, no matter
what kind of no matter what kind of secrets or
intelligence he had access to their military knowledge, you know,
could have like changed the course of of of the
Soviet Union. But his his impulse was correct, Okay, even
if it was like, even if it was a youthful romanticism,
and it was ridiculous to think like he could change
the course sumptionally the way the wars up bag was going.
He was right that something terrible would happen if America
simply just like outright won the Cold War. You know,
there needs to be that kind of uh. I mean,
I think the American garments in ninety thirty three is
literally evil. But even if somebody's got a softer, more
terrible charitable perspective on it than that, you know, aganistic
pluralism as well like chiefs, like politics, like productive and
I and you know, is what prevents, uh, you know,
the establishment of these uh of these these kinds of
deteriorated uh like monocultural uh you know, mechanisms that that
that basically suppressed culture where's emergent in any in any formness,
you know, threatening the status quote. I realized there was
a lot there, but that's the best way you explain it,
all right.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to Spangler because in reading
u Qussian socialism, there was something he said in there
that I think a lot of Americans and Westerners would
have a problem with, especially since you know, I think
he wrote that nineteen twenty. So he said that the
Englishman judges himself upon his riches and the Prussian judges
himself upon his rank.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so true to that, Yeah, I don't
Werner Sombard made a lot of the same points. And
the way to understand, I mean, that's why to be
a bit more charitable, to the English, you know, the
the UK and England itself. It's it's an inception. It
was a divided society. There wasn't some like single ethnos
that became the English people. I mean, you know all
of this, but you're an Iran educated guy. But like
that's gotta be this this idea of like this homogeneous
kind of England. And it's why I especially bizarre when
you know the kind of cargo cult multiculturalism in England.
It's like it's like England's always been like catastrophically multicultural.
They didn't even get a handle on this, arguably until
the twentieth century. You know, like the experience of Prussia
was totally different. I mean Prussia was this garrison state
you know, with uh like with that, with with barely
any arable land, no, no naturally defensible you know border features.
You know it. Uh, it basically makes sense and I
don't disagree and this, Uh, that's one of the reasons why, like,
you know, class antagonism has conceptualized. And that's that's one
of the reason why I was off based. For for
for Mars to look to Germany is like this is
where like, you know, Mars's Leninism is going to be
this where you know this where you know, common is
gonna be emergent. Then later like Lenin like attempting the
same the same enterprise or are attending to implement that
enterprise is is theorized by mars like it Yeah, okay, Germany,
like obviously it was gonna be first over the line
in terms of the productive productive forces that could facilitate
you know, uh, like true socialism in the sense of
vision by people like Marx. But the class antagonists catalyst
is not really present in Germany. I mean it's not
to say like the KPD wasn't very strong, but again,
like the KPD got defeated and of you know what
I'm always do like a fair fight by the right
in Germany. I mean that didn't happen in Russia. Obviously,
the opposite happened because you know, in spite of the
lack of the technics and infrastructure, the class antagonism was vicious,
you know. And in the UK, the reason the British
were paranoid, absolutely paranoid about Bolshevism, they were for good reasons,
you know, I mean there there was uh, there was
there there was this basic class antagonism. I mean at
the point that it's it's it's like you could argue
that like in some ways like the what people kind
of politely and you physically approves, like the big classes
class system. I mean you're talking about people are basically
like well private purposes, like different ethnic roofs, man like
they and genetically I think they'll dare out too in
some sense. Okay, Like it's not it's that that's quite
a different thing than you know it plays like Prussia
where uh like like you really do have like a
common culture and yeah, I mean there's people, you know,
there's people like higher rank and lower rank, you know,
and there's there's obviously you know, people have of vastly
disparate abilities, but you don't have like one class of
people concentrated, you know, in like one function like looking
across these other people who are like literally totally different
from them, Like they like look different, they talk different,
they act different, you know, like they their customs are different.
Like it's just not that's not the case. So I
think that's basically true. And it's also it you know
stand Barts and uh, there was a whole point too,
was that there's something uh, I mean the there there
there there is something. Uh, you know, cultures are kind
of like someone to drift in history. I mean the
way I mean, the way they manage these like emergent challenges.
I mean obviously that's evolutional, but there's also this this
idea that, uh, this idea that like if we ignore
like this kind of impulse or socialism, it will go away.
And if we like outlawed, or if we you know,
or if we just you know, or if we make
it fair to everybody that you know, there's there's not
a limited amount of wealth in the world. And you know,
if they if they just developed the gumption and industriousness,
like they too can become rich. And that's not this
not the way things work. I'm not even saying like
ethical terms. I mean it's just like not like like
man individually or or man severally or collectively, you know,
at at at the at the cultural level and as
regards as historical enterprises is not is a very limited
participant man, you know. And there's something cotton E. Europeans
always understood that, or rather accepted that in a way
that the English didn't. It's not my purpose is here
in just like trash England is you know, is I
know some git's a hobby for some people, particularly in
our circles. But this idea that you know, oh, we
can just author you know, like we just kind of
we can just kind of like author like a well
functioning society by you know, resorts you know, kind of
like sound principles of economics or something like this, or
by resorts you know, like social science, like that's actually
a very, that's actually a very, that's actually like a
very anglophone thing. I think that's part of it. All
those things, but I don't put them in a lead disagree.
You know, you have sometimes overstated.
Speaker 1: When you read a lot of the writings from the
early twenties. I just read Schmidt's political theology on the show.
You you see that they're struggling with this new world
that you know, World War One changed so much, and
now you know, if you have a monarchy left, it's
a parliamentary monarch. He had some monarchy had name. Only
when Spangler is looking at Europe and he's seeing those changes,
how is he how is he interpreting what he sees?
Speaker 2: I mean the uh well, I mean it's again he's
There's there's a common strain in Spangler and Schumpeter and
in and in Sombert. The reason why socialism was on
their mind, you Knoweter was Trumpeter, like Spangler was probably
the most like anti socialist figure you can imagine. Like
they didn't say it. They weren't saying socialisms and inevitability
because oh, this is the merchant history and this is progress.
They're saying that. You know, once like x level of
development is accomplished, and when you have verstal suffrage, you know,
people are going to like vote themselves more. Uh, They're
they're gonna they're they're gonna say the golden goose by
voting themselves in in in the tunery. Okay, Like as
a culture, how do you manage that? You know, it's like, well,
if you have that what you know the Germans used
to call the mentioned material to kind of mitigate that
because you have an industrious people, you know, you do
whatever you can, uh, you know, kind of martial those
energies you know towards uh, towards things that facilitate you know,
competitiveness on the world market, you know, and that you know,
frankly facilitate you know, the ability to to uh, to
constitute a fearsome army that can appropriate what you can't
produce at home. But this is an ongoing problem and
with the absence of a mitigating you know, the kind
of the kind of a fatalistic the understanding of the
kind of like fatalism of of of of God's dominion,
I mean, is the way I logantic I'm a Bible
prod or you know, if you're just some kind of
agnostic who nonetheless accepts you know that, you know, the
process of history is something that man is not truly
the power to shape or control. You know, You've got
you've got to become comfortable with like a certain amount
of like, you know, surrender to these processes. They're like
greater than man is. Okay, the the deteriation of government
into this guy you know from you know kind of
the kind of you know from kind of like you know,
the on the nose like theological kind of symbolism a monarchy,
and they're just kind of like a parliament to take
a glorified public works administration that that that has a
very corrupting effect. And uh, that's why Spangler, you know,
he held out the Prussian state. It's not like it's
not like span some like military man or some Prussian
martinette himself. You know, he was he was he was
like he was kind of like the consummate, like you
know Burger type.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And he was you know, like a bookish kind of
like timid guy. Like what he was saying was that,
you know, really the only state that can survived this process,
you know, with an with an intact culture that is
prone to you know, things like you know, sustaining it's
it's it's human quality with you know, with with appropriately
hygienic praaspets practices figuratively literally, and that you know, is
capable of you know, generating the wealth that's going to
be you know rapidly kind of cycled through and consumed
you know by the voracious monster that is you know,
the you know, the the parliament, the europe the modern
parliamentary parliamentary democracy. You know, a state, a state with
the Prussian ethos extrapolated you know, to to potentially a
continent size uh, great space, great sovereign space would would
be what's required. And I basically agree with that, and
I mean that's why that is obviously in my opinion,
like what got Hitler's interest in Spangler's stuff. You know,
Hitler read looked at maps all the time for the
time he was a little child, like literally and like
until he died, until like literally like the week he died,
he always had his maps and his colored pencils, and
you know, he he was fixated on geography and you know,
implications they're in both tactical and strategic as well as
you know, culturally and informative capacities. But Hitler didn't sit
around reading like like geopolitics all day. You know. He
was into stuff like Schopenhauer. He was into like I mean,
it was his favorite like philosopher, you know, and he
was into he was into like art theory and stuff
like i I've never heard of before, you know. And
he was into like you know, he was into like
you know, heroepics and German histories. But it's not like
Spangler was kind of thing he ordinarily would just like
been like, oh, this is great, you know it God's attention.
Not just because Spangler again was a guy who had
a lot of clout in the Inner War years. It's
because like that what I just described, like that is
what spoke to Hitler and like basis for that is
not just the table talk, but it's the December eleventh,
nineteen forty one speech to the Reichstag, and that's an
important speech for all kinds of reasons. But Hitler, Hitler's
talking about the Prussian experience in uh In eighteen thirteen.
He's anything, but he's not. He's not saying the Prussian kingdom.
He's saying we. He's saying he's talking about the German
vogue is synonymous with the Prussian state. Okay, And this
was in Hitler was a Habsburg Austrian saying this. I
mean that that to me that it's abou outside the scope.
But that's what convinces me. That to convinced me of
what I just said. But that's basically Spangler's notion. I mean,
there's more, there's a lot more there, like in his
body of work, but in terms of what he in
terms of the prescription for how the stage should be
configured and what it's UH and what it's sort of
like guiding UH ideas should be. You know, that's that's
what he's getting in and that's what he's concerned with,
and that's what everybody was concerned with. And uh, you know, yeah,
I mean that's trumpter and some are because like I said,
I mean they they were quintally concerned the same fundamentally
considered the same thing is because these are questions of
of existential imperative significance.
Speaker 1: Let's let's do Yaki now you and you already mentioned this,
and this is probably the thing that anyone who knows
who finds out something about Yaqui wants to question or
once to use to dismiss him. It's his embracing of
the Soviet of the Soviet Union and his reasoning behind that.
And I think a lot of people look at it,
would look now and look at the world and be like,
if somebody's honest, they'll be like, well, I think he
was ahead of his time and his thinking in this.
But it's still really hard because you know, we've gone
through this whole, We've had seventy five years of of
the Soviet Union. Was the was our enemy. I mean
we grew up in that way, We grew up that way.
The Soviet Union was was our enemy. You know, if
bombs start dropping, hide into your desk, crying of kind
of crap. So Bayaki saying that the Soviet Union was
that he would support he was supporting the Soviet Union
at that point. You know, can you go it a
little more into detail his reasoning behind that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, first and foremost and kind of
the most in the most basic terms and a basic,
strugg full terms. It's what I said when I referenced
Chris Boyce with nothing in common with yacky, but I
but in in in Jewish, in geopolitical terms. That that
was that that that was, that was the structural issue. Okay,
an American, an American hedgemond would lead to what you
see today. You know, it would lead to the social
engineering of of race out of existence other than the
Jewish races. As a matter of course, like literally at debate,
that's not something conspiracy theory that's literally baked into the
American ideology. Okay, and uh even even really not the case.
You don't want in in a twenty first century You
did not want to pack sramana in a twenty first
century world, Okay, you just don't. That's not You do
not want great power monopolization of global resources, like singular
great power monopolization of global resources. That's going to be
a tyranny no matter what. So just an absolute like
a political terms, structural terms is that. Secondly, Yaki always
Yaqui's all big point was that he said that like
and then again, part of this is kind of like
a cultural Catholicism, but I'm not saying that cumatively at all.
Yaki's point was like, look, you've got to look at
yourself Americas, White Americans need to look at themselves as
as basically like Europeans who live in a new world, Okay,
because if you don't, you're gonna make compromises that ultimately
like write you out of history. Okay, and that's what
happened in nineteen thirty three New Deal America. And beyond.
It's singularly anti it's anti Western, it's anti white, it's
anti European, and like why wouldn't it be it views
all these things as alien to itself. Okay, it's basically
Jewish such that it has like a cultural orientation at all,
Like the people constantly do it who aren't Jewish, like
they might as well be because they don't care and
like what they don't view as hostile they simply have
no interest in preserving. Okay, the only way europe can survive.
Is Europe hass to join with Russia. Now Yatu would
have preferred, you know, that to have occurred with you know,
you know the capture of Moscow in December nineteen forty one,
because that didn't happen. Well, we have you know, we
have the world that we have, not the world that
we want. So the only way that Europe is going
to throw off the American yoke is by sometime of
concord with the Soviet Union. And after nineteen fifty three
he said that wouldn't be particularly in city. It's like, yeah,
Soviet occupation is a tyranny, but you know, it's like
elite de ben was that the tyranny of the body.
You know, whether Stalin intended to do this for sectarian
and ethnic reasons or whether he just did it for
practical reasons. Because these people constantly with a threat you know,
to the to not just his own mandate, but the
enduring power of the party. Stalin literally perd Jews from
leadership in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Okay,
and he did so in a way that was fairly
above board. That was that was Yougi's point about the
Prague Trials Okay, every I mean out of the Prague
Trials were I mean of a of a satellite regime,
you know, it's a satellite regime that was the subject
of it. But it was not either because that was
kind of like a test case. And every one of
the Doctor's plot defenders with Jewish but one. Okay, And
it's like that, so we don't even trying to hide
was underway here, you know, just like we don't care
like these people are these people are are Fifth Columnists,
like they're gonna.
Speaker 3: Die, you know.
Speaker 2: So okay, Yeah, like in Germany, Germany in nineteen fifty
or ninety sixty, you know, uh, in concord with the
Soviet Union. Yeah, the people there were were gonna made
them the heel of Stalinism on their neck. But you know,
they wouldn't be being genocided out of existence, you know,
like churches were going to be replaced with the Holocaust museums.
You know, like black immigrants, we're gonna be flooded into
the cities, you know, like pornography wasn't gonna be flooded
made available basically for free. I mean, like this was
a lot lot less insidious, okay, like being poor and
having like, uh, to deal with a political police force
that's not a small thing that's fucked up. Nobody would
say that's good. That's better than what I just described. Okay,
And not only is it better at day to day
terms and in civilizational terms, you can survive that, you
cannot survive the other Okay, that was Yaki's reasoning. Finally,
again Yaki was like Kennon, He's like, look, the Soviet
Union is not going to exist in fifty years. It's
definitely not gonna exist in one hundred years. From his
then for the nineteen fifty he's like, you know, when
the Soviet Union's gone, there's still gonna be a Russia.
There's still gonna be in Germany. You know, there's still
gonna be a Europe. You know. It's you know, so
this idea that you know, this is this idea that
like you know, what if if if we could pitulate,
we could picture like the Soviet Union. Now you know
that the world's gonna become this this you know, is
gonna become this kind of like uh, this kind of
like giant gulag hell, you know, is you know, that's
that's fast style. I take some exception to I mean,
I don't want to get into my own view on
this because it's it's it's outside the scope. But you know,
his point was that, you know, there's nothing less cosmopolitan
than the truly like kind of like Russian cultural soul. Okay,
So even if you have like a europe and particlarly
in Germany like dominated by Russian perpetuity, you know, gradually
like they're gonna slough off, you know, either the appearance
of communism and even and even appeal to it as
some kind of you know ration, like like purported rationale.
You know, for what for what the regime does? You know,
you're gonna be left the basis kind of like this
kind of like nationalists Russian regime that you know might
be brutish towards the Germans, but it's not gonna it's
not gonna be it's not gonna be trying to racially
exterminate them out of history, and it's not gonna be
able to insinuate itself into the culture. Like no, they
can Russia not do that. They can't do that. You're like, damn,
like you were not gonna see like Russian kids all
just kind of spontaneously speaking Russian because they viewed the
Russians as the higher culture. You were gonna see like
you know, German women, like deciding you want to dress
like you know, like like Russian women, you're not gonna
find you know, German saying you know what, like you know,
I were antellectual canon just inferior to that going to
be in produced by the Russians, Like I'm not trashing Russia,
but this is this is a fact, okay, like that
that would not happen. And also again I mean I
use the example which seems like the kind of narrow,
narrowly focused example of uh, you know, Warsaw pac command
of control having certain challenges, you know, because there was
like language barriers. I mean that that's that part of
that was just like a Russian thing where I'm not
gonna learn German, you know, like I I'm the occupier,
I'm the boss, you know who. I don't care about
these people. I mean, it really is kind of like
a crude showing. And then a lot of Russians do.
I don't even think that's fairly bad. I'm kind of
the same way in my own like fucking Yankee Pecker
would start a wigh. Okay, I'm not some fucking not
so many things, like being cosmopolit is this braint thing,
okay at all, But whether it's good or bad is incidental.
Like that's not what the Russians are, Like, that's not
how they do things. Okay. So that was Yaki's point,
and you know, at the end of the day, I
mean he was he was right because it's like even
if you you can look at the big rebubtal of
that would be like people, uh, you know, the kinds
of people who would say, like we'll look at what
the look at what the Soviets did in the colored world.
You know, they were radicalizing all these people against the West,
Like but like what was the West? What was the
West then? Like the West was uh, they they were
open borders, they were you know, we've gotta we've got
to eliminate, you know, this this leg of equity between
the sexes. We've gotta we we we we've got to
destroy these pairs communities where people are insisting on retaining
their own kind of purity of ethnos and cultural practice.
You know, we gotta, you know, we gotta we we
gotta create this kind of global monoculture, whereas you know, like, uh,
we're where we were beyond race, like the Soviets were
doing all of this. Yeah, okay, I don't think it's
good that the Soviets were the you know in the
Cubans were the flowing and forced a you know, it's
a the Africa to annihilate you know, the Board of Republic.
But I mean, okay, in the grand scheme, what I
say is there's out Okay, there was Washington wasn't as
far far far more radical, far more actually communistic, far
more and city is far more destructive than Moscow ever
was Okay, and that was the case in nineteen fifty Okay,
as it is today. That was Jockey's point.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's finish up with us. So Jacky gets caught,
he gets drown in jail, and he uh, he ends
up killing himself.
Speaker 2: Indeed, what why do you think he did? I think
Yaki never an H. Thompson, who was his good friend,
and even like decades after the fact, I mean Thompson,
Thompson realized that he was a witness to history in
some sense, so I mean he he he. He was
relatively open with interviewers about his own life and his
own kind of experiences. I think he always played kind
of KOI about Yaki, Like Yaki had no visible source
of income. But you know, according to his friends, he
was always addressed well and he never had a lot
of money, but he was never like starving, you know,
and he uh, it's pretty clear to me that you know,
he was that he was an East Block intelligence asset.
I believe that he made contact with Otto Reemer and
the Socialist Reich's Party when uh he when he when
he when he was briefly a war crimes prosecutor, and
he deliberately lost his cases. I do like lesser war criminals.
But he he went to he was he was held
out trying to get to Germany, and he did That's
why he wanted to go away. In my opinion, I
believe may kind of the guys like Reamer, you know,
Reamer was uh reamerhead of you that I mean, I mean,
you know, uh, the Socialsch Party was they they favored
alliance with the Soviet Union. I mean, that was the whole,
that was their whole. Raizlin Detro was gonna skew the
the what remained of the German nationalists right towards you know,
away from NATO. But it uh I believe that through
Reamer he got introduced, uh probably to the probably the
elements of of East German intelligence and definitely the kg
B types. And uh, I think that that was Jacky's
I think that was Yaki's role. And I think what
I think part of what Yachi was doing was he
was trying he was working on neutralized like him and
like everybody's so deployed as he was. It was based
on their job like neutralized with the Allies, we're trying
to accomplish with their like kind of Operation Gladio notions.
You know, they're they're like the Warsaw pack was basically
swinging like uh, the European like patriotic right and like
the fascist right like towards their tamp for the reasons
I just said, and uh, Washington, uh and people like
Dallas especially that was they were very upset about that
because obviously, like this was a key part of kind
of like their their strategy for if there was a
general Communist assault on Europe. You know, their stay behind
element was these guys who like Yaqui was flipping to
the Soviet side, you know, stuff like that. And he also, yeah,
but Yaki had like four or five different passports in
different names. He was arrested, like and this wasn't like
today where you know, if you know the right people
you can get that done. Like that could print a
passport in nineteen fifty you know, like you couldn't do
that any typewriter. I mean, I I believe that very
is very clear.
Speaker 1: Do you think from reading Bolton, do you think there's
a chance he was originally intelligence for the United States.
He goes a wall in the beginning of World War
in the beginning of World War two, disappears into South
America and then comes back, and he doesn't do any
time or it doesn't seem that he's even reprimanded, or
if he has reprimanded, it's a slap on the it's
a slap on the rest, I.
Speaker 2: Mean as possible. Yeah. And uh. He also he wrote
he wrote a speech or two for for Senator Joe McCarthy, which, uh,
you know, the storty of the speech was like why
you know we need rearmed Germany and like embrace Germany
as like allies. It's really interesting, I think, but like
why why would Joe McCarthy Like know who Yacky was.
I mean McCarthy was like a big deal then. I
mean like his it's gonna his fall from grace Roverbia
Lee was dramatic and profound. But you know, McCarthy was
one of the left still like burns him in fig
today is because he was like a big deal. So
it's like why why this big shats senator at all?
Just kind of like random like right wing lawyer like
that doesn't really make a lot of sense, you know,
So like, uh yeah, so I mean there's a very
good chance. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: All right, let's leave it there and uh, we'll come
back to the Cold War on the next episode. And
I think this had Cold War implications so that that's good.
Oh absolutely, And we can come back to this on
another date. Drop some plugs and we'll end this.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Man, thanks for the time being. I'm
still on Twitter. I think that's probably gonna come to
an end soon, So I behoove people follow me on substack.
You know my substick is uh real Thomas seven seven
seven dot substack dot com. You know, there's like a
whole like there's a there's a whole like chat feature there.
You know, people are pretty active on I'm on t gram.
You know, I still end the time being on Twitter.
For the time being on Twitter at real Underscore number
seven h one mes seven seven seven. I'm working on
the channel still in earnest. I'm gonna start shooting dedicated
content for it by the first week in April, so
I mean be looking for that. It's Thomas PD on YouTube.
Once I started uploading like real original content, I'm gonna
start saturating like Odyssey and on this stuff. But right
now I'm on YouTube so people can find us. I
realize that it's not long for as the Earth one
once they figure out what I'm doing. But I will
hip everybody to that, like on my substack, because I
have been doing this stuff and that's all I got
for know.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much, thanks for this, No, thank
you man. Take care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone back to the pe Comana Show. Do it
a little uh timely one here. I'm gonna be releasing
this on September eleventh, and I guess somebody some people
would think we were doing a nine to eleven episode,
but now this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the
coup in Chile, and I want to have Thomis on
to give his opinion of what it was and how
it went down and how it benefited the right. That
sound good, I.
Speaker 2: Mean yeah, I meanly, I mean, I mainly want to
dismantle misconceptions as well as out and out confabulations about
the situation in Chile, you know, cultural, political, and historical,
because all these things play into the equation. You know,
I'm not just being a historical researcher who's insane when
he was on fetishes for anthropological data. In this discussion,
it really is significant in a and the cause of Chile,
in Latin America generally, but Chile in particular. We're gonna
talk about what happened there and why it became such
a critical Cold War battle theater. And that's the way
to understand this. That's the way to understand this. That's
the way to understand the totality of what became Operation Condor.
That's the way to understand the situation in Argentina, which
was a lot more murky and conspiratorial than that of Chile.
I mean that weren't the discussion all onto itself, but
particularly the the you know, what developed in Nicaragua and
El Salvador and uh Granada was key as well in
the final phase of the Cold War, and people they
don't fully understand at the time, people generally did. It's
interesting how they kind of tortured rationale. People would resort
to these Peter Arnett types and even Oliver Stone who
made a pretty negative partisan movie about you know, Central America.
I think it was actually called Salvador. I don't know
how these people could rationalize. I mean, I know how
they did superficially, I mean I was alive during the time,
but how they could sort of redact in their own
mind the fact that Central and South America, you know,
maybe maybe we refer to as Latin America in total
was an active battle space in the final phase of
the Cold War, and it was a truly critical battle
space because not just in terms of American credibility visa
visa on Roe doctrine and things, but that would have
rectified the strategic imbalance that Warsaw packed was always disadvantaged
by owing to, you know, facts of geography and the
fact that in that epoch the way four structures were,
you know, owing to the technology the day it conferred
a tremendous advantage on NATO potentially that it could strike
you know, basically from you know, within critical range decapitation range.
Ultimately we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms a Soviet territory.
But the and finally, I'll bring it back to the
discussion at hand in more precise terms, and the daytadd era,
the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pack and adjacent states,
they were winning the Cold War. It in military terms.
It didn't matter that wars Up Pack was a basket
case in terms of its internal situation. It didn't matter
that the Soviets are negotiating, uh, you know, a crisis
from the Kremline itself a leadership as you know, this
kind of aged gerontocracy like literally died off. You know. Uh,
America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated, uh, the
significance of that, but decoupling Beijing for Warsaw Packed. But
that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome obviously,
and that led to in turn, you know, the America
ended up backing the camer Rouge against the People's Army
of Vietnam. You know, because the Commune Rouge were China's
proxy this problem. So this three way proxy war developed,
you know, between the Khmer Rouge, you know, who were
victorious against on Noulls forces, you know, between the Khmer
Rouge and the People's Army of Vietnam, you know, the
United the Chinese had their own agenda there, but the
United States and the people at China were nominally backing
the bagging the Khmer Rouge against the Soviet client in Vietnam.
The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental
subsidies in India, you know, and uh reaffirming their friendship
packed as a hedge against China. America responded, you know,
by by taking on Pakistan, you know, and uh and
in bagging Pakistan and the Indo Pakistan War, you know,
and drop off Ustanov and uh Gram ego as the
kind of trifecta of executive leadership in the Soviet Union
at the time, you know that that's what caused them
to actually move in Afghanistan. I think, like we talked about,
like they were convinced that the Afghan regime was gonna
the Afghania regime was gonna pivot towards the United States
dates and uh, they thought that, you know, they thought
that Carter uh was heavily cultivating that, especially only the
loss of Iran, but also I mean that would you
know Afghanistan with the decapitation arrange of Kazakhstan and Kazakhstan
was you know, that's what Star City is. I mean
that was critical to Soviet strategic nuclear commanding control. So
I mean this was uh, you know, basically the tent
would ended it. I mean it was the invasion of
Afghanistan and other things, but it uh, you know, the
communists run the move on every continent and goal is
another one, okay, and there was neither the political will
nor the force isn't being anymore for America to force
to enforce the Truman doctrine. Then come to the direct
aid of these you know, friendly states under siege by
communist elements, and you know, the military itself. You know
that the draft had ended and the revolution of military
affairs hadn't you know, gotten off and been implemented yet
in any meaningful way. Although these these weapons systems and
this command control technology like did exist, it just hadn't
been integrated into you know, fource structures and being in
a meaningful way yet. But you know, looking at a
map in nineteen seventy three, again in military terms, the
Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is an
oddly situated place and kind of like Argentina, there was
high hopes for it. You know, people used to talk
about Argentina like it was going to be the United
States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But you know,
despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries, they're
more European than they are like America or can't the
you know, Chile, UH became a pretty major regional military
power after what was called the War of the Pacific.
This took place in in eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighty four.
Chile fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and
and one this kind of like uh, you know, like
like like Prussian style like blitz victory, okay, and acquired
a lot of territory and a lot of clout. But
obviously again owing to UH its situation, UH on the
cone of South America. I mean, there's a strategic significance
there regardless. You know, it's not like the South Atlantic
you know, and access to the South Atlantic and specifically
the ability to engage you know, the US fleet and
the Atlantic potentially you know before it even you know,
is able to deploy beyond uh, you know, the Western
hemisphere potentially. I mean that was huge. But it's also
you know, there's a there, there's there's there's something to
the idea of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a
fire that catches or some kind of virul and backless,
if you'll forgive the kind of overwrought metaphor. But that's true,
and people are accepting that more and more now, not
not because they've taken on some kind of pumutive view
of communism and history or something, and not even that
that's that's that's not even really in the contemplation. And
most of these kind of like neuroscience types and you know,
kind of like cultural psychologists. But you know, people talk
about the way like memes become truly viral and like
information mac the viral you know, that's kind of a
narrow that's kind of a whittled down version of what
the phenomena I'm talking about. And you know, revolutionary momentum
uh is something that is a real thing. You know,
it's the analogies are myriad, you know, across accounting for
racial and cultural differences and you know, really really controlling
for all variables, suggesting true diversity. You know this this
can't really be denied. So all us aside, you know,
like as I talked about with respect to Vietnam, and
you know previously one of the ways that part weighs
with people like Meerscheimer. But this idea that you have
this kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind
of cloudset what's on steroids you of warfare like well,
you know, credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as so
long as you have you know, strategic forces and being
to devastate your enemy. And there was no quote you know,
key there there's no essential interest in in Vietnam. It
didn't matter, you know, in the twentieth century, like wars
weren't fought you know, to control you know, access to
rubber plantations you know, or like you know, fur trade
routes like Vietnam became World War three y proxy because
like that's where the battle lines were drawn, that's where
the Communists attacked, you know, and that's where uh, that's
That's where Washington had to had to draw the line
and respond. You know, it didn't matter that it was
in CEU East Asia and there's not some quote key
interests there according to you know, traditional paradigms of political economy.
So in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile,
I mean there wasn't there wasn't there is, But even
if there wasn't, it didn't matter. You know, a communist
revolution there what have would have developed tremendous momentum that
had profound significance beyond its borders and uh probably even
beyond you know, like the South American continent and into
you know, Central and uh in North America. Even so,
I don't think to keep in mind, now what what
was the situation in Chile generally like because this is important.
It relates to like out love the Junta Tennischet himself
and why they were such a test case and staunch
resistance to communism and being a cultural anthropologist, they used
to write quite a bit about this, you know, why
why some of these in their mind and this is
a superficial view of my point, like why some of
these Latin American states seemed almost like mirror Franco was Spain,
but it Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derived primarily from
those cultural malons. They're not these people don't represent a
martial race in the way you think of like the
Spartans of the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like
military culture there. Okay, there just is you know, uh,
whether it's the cot is a you know the quote
of Adalgo kind of like large is it? You know
that there's something sanguinary in my opinion to Spanish Catholicism.
I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually
quite fascinating.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But the you see, this is some degree in France too,
but in the Iberian cultures it's more pronounced. But the
military heads had an outsized role in Chile, you know,
like it did in Spain, like it didn't Portugal, like
it does in Italy, or it didn't Italy. Okay, this
is a fact. There was a there was a culture
into itself. Okay, now there is it. Chile. As I
just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography. It's always south of
potential encirclement by rival states the north and to the east,
so it's institutional orientation of its armed forces was always
on the possibility of fighting a multi front war. Now
who executives that sound like that sounds exactly like the Prussians,
and what gave rise to the staff system, which you know,
ultimately every modern army imitates. But there was going to
this fact even before the Chilean military modernized, you know,
in the in the wake of you know, the the
Great War and what have you. There's always certain there
there's always an understanding that, you know, Chile, the Chilean
army in particularly the army had to be built around
a kind of cadre structure, you know, where some version
of mission oriented tactics that had to be cultivated. You know,
they're like, you know, anybody in a leadership role from
like NCO upward would have to exhibit you know, a
superior training efficiency motivation you know, basically man for man,
be better than the enemy. Okay, because again Chile was
was basically always facing a kind of like on Schleief
and quagmire, if that makes any sense. And there's certain
anthropological factors too, of a of a more kind of
cultural nature, okay, Like the the Chilean arny was very
very very Catholic. The background of Pinochet himself as well
as Admiral Marino Jose Todebo Merino Castro. They were the
two most important figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front,
but this was you know, ruled by a military committee basically,
and uh not, Marino was. Ah, it was kind of
the brains of the junta. Like I mean, Penchet was
a very intelligent man, as we'll see, but admirals tend
to be like a cut above in terms of intellectual
capabilities and organizational skills and things. But they both, these
men kind of came to define. They were both like
exemplars of the Chilean military culture after nineteen twenty or so,
and they also were absolutely the most significant personages in
the in the emergency government, both of them. Pinochet once
into a journalist, he said he was like Saint Peter,
like literally, you know, he said, I I God's elected us,
you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfilled missions
and prepare the path, you know, and we're just preparing
the path, you know, for for salvation, you know, of
all of all of the entire church, you know, where
we're literally like Christian warriors, you know, and Piniche believed
that one hundred and ten percent. You know, he wasn't
just he wasn't just saying that to kind of you know,
shore up his is his like image or something, you know.
And even even if he'd wanted to like, that's not
the way he'd go about it. I mean, even even
then when there was you know, kind of a Catholic
moment owing to the only only a certain certain things
related to the Cold War and in the situation in
Northern Ireland and other stuff. But you know, the event
after World War Two, obviously people you know think about
they you know, they they conceptualize, uh, these these Latin
American states, you know, taking up with America in uh
for you know, for out of strategic convenience as well
as going to the you know kind of the kind
of pentagons like outsized influence only to them on ro
doctorate and other things, and just kind of like historical variables,
you know, plus the fact that direct uh capital subsidies
were always coveted, you know by these countries. You know,
even though these states weren't ruined by World War Two,
they were only gonna touch you know, there was they
still they were still short on development and perpetually short
on capital. But there was something superficial about this on
the side of UH, these states who were coveting American patronage,
like US military influence never really took in Latin America.
You know, none of these countries like Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Panama, Honduras,
El Salvador, all these all these states where you know
that America, all these states that basically America set up
things like the School of the Americas to cultivate military
and independence with like, US military influence never overwhelmed the
kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there. You know,
there's there's a massive streak of anti communism, like throughout
you know, the professional military caste in Chile and Chile especially,
but throughout Latin America, and this long preceded you know
what we're talking about, like the efforts of you know,
the American successive American regimes to kind of you know,
cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with with with Latin American
you know, like military type regimes it UH.
Speaker 3: And the.
Speaker 2: You know, the and even UH even in terms of
professional development and things like all modern armies need to
be habituated the technology and like comfortable with really you know,
relatively high tech you know, weapons platforms and uh that
very much like like a very like in Chile as
well and elsewhere, very much uh like a technically competent
class within the army developed, but beyond that at the
kind of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional
culture of America like didn't really take there, you know,
Like now, now why is that? It's interestingly in Chile
there's a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from
immigrant backgrounds now against a Chile Those immigrants were German,
they were English, they were Italian, they were French, they
were Syrian, they were Croatian. That's why when you look
at like a roster of a of the Chilean officer corps,
like first of all, it's a bunch of like white
and kind of like Arab or like you know, Italian
looking guys. And they've got like European surnames, you know,
so you've you've quite literally got this kind of European
and europe In europe adjacent officer corps in a country
that's you know, frankly majority mixed race, you know, so
it's you're talking about like literally like a culture within it,
within a broader culture, you know, not just of an
institutional sort, but of you know, an actual you know,
like like like ethnic type, you know, ethnic sword rather
like categorically like uh, there were two German speaking Lutherans
on uh on uh in the junta. It was uh
Fernando Matthai uh the Air Force commander, and Rodolpho Strange,
who was the chief and National Police. I mean there
you go, and uh, A lot of these immigrant families,
if they weren't moneyed, you know, like they they encourage
their sons to become military officers because that was really
the way. That was the only way you can get
clout if you weren't part of the national majority, you know.
The Uh. Now, of course the Marxist view, which has
faded somewhat obviously it's the Cold War, but it's kind
of like this, it's kind of like this cockroach that
won't die. It's just like emerges again and again and
and it doesn't help it. Like Howard is in, it
kind of has like new life now in US academia,
but most scholars, even most military sociologists, they're tainted some
of this idea that like you know, look like South
American soldiers like you know, from the officer corps on down,
you know, to the end level of n CEOs. They
just represented there. They were basically like mercenaries who like
represent the interests of global capitalism, like backed up by
the Pentagon, you know. And they and they were like
basically like the security force that technocrats and and uh
and and and you know in in factory owners you know,
and you know they're they're they're raised on detro destroyed
left wing politics, you know, and empower these technocrats who
can facilitate, you know, the the assimilation of these countries
like into the globalist structure. Like that doesn't really make
any sense, okay, And like it doesn't in the case
like a real lack of understanding of kind of human
motivations and what attracts people to, you know, kind of
the institutional trappings of like heritage and ritual and stuff.
Like nobody a bunch of a bunch of salvad Orian
National police types and a bunch of Chilean officers weren't
just like pretending to be Catholic because they're like they
were worried about their public image. You know, they weren't uh,
they weren't goose stepping around the parade deck because they
thought that that would make people. They thought that they
thought that that would like help their image. Okay, I mean,
like it's it's not you know, plus the kind of
stuff that you know, as we'll see, you know, guys
like Pinochet. You know, these this was not a situation
like with Zelenski, where uh you know, some sort of
christ I mean, you couldn't really have a Zelensky situation
in the Cold War. But my point is not it's
not like it's not like Pinochet. It was like pocketing
a bunch of money and him in his general as well,
getting rich and picking up teenage mistresses and like ripping
around in mercedes and in the streets of uh, you know,
Santiago or whatever. You know it. These guys lived almost
on a nastic life, you know, like they they didn't
they didn't live in pot but they you know, they
did they didn't they didn't have means, they didn't have means,
you know, like even uh like Pinochet prior to prior
to the junta, and even he he basically like lived
like a popper or it didn't really own anything, you know,
something this idea that, this idea that you know, oh well,
all these all these kinds of weird I mean, not
weird in a punitive way, but all these unusual let
me let let's let's let's employ that the scriptor this
kind of like unusual features a Latin American military life,
that somehow these were just like super structural trappings, you know,
that kind of like hid what amount to do a
literally mercenary ethos like that's this is like nonsense. Now
what uh what was we we? You know, we we
got to the fact that America didn't really put a
lasting stamp on the on the Latin American military culture
generally and specifically l and military life. But what did
well after the UH after the War the Pacific, you know,
which we talked about a minute ago, which ended in
eighteen eighty four, the president UH, the Mingo Santa Maria,
he realized that the army need to modernize and reorganize
itself in the model of a European army. They basically
out fought Peru and Bolivia, you know, but it uh,
they you know, the world was changing, and he and
the army was still low tech, like basically with carry
the day was again like a very game officer corps
you know, that was and cod event CIOs the rent
of missionary and tactics and frankly, you know, just a
lot of a lot of a lot of men who
are very tough and very hungry for prestige and uh
and to serve the fatherland. But what uh what the
what the Chileans decided on they fixed their sites Andermany,
who they viewed as uh, you know, kind of like
the zenith of of of a military prowess, you know.
And and then that's kind of when German cloud was
at its was added zenith. I would say, okay, the uh,
the Chilean regime, it was it was already familiar with
Germans as a people, like in the south of the country,
basically the German colonization down there, like it it led
to tremendous capital development, you know, and the uh, there's
basically a sense of like, well, what can't these people
do you know, like it? Uh, we we want to
cultivate interdependence with the Germans anyway, because you know, they're
like we basically like we need these people. You know,
it's like a shot in the arm of our the
entire paradigm and national development. You know. The embassy in Berlin,
the Chilean embassy in Berlin was in the charge of
a guy named Guermo Mata. He contacted the German military directly.
He apparently had some kind of good rapport with Marshall
von Molt, you know, who was uh like a heavy
heavy personage and he uh, he was ultimately uh he
was ultimately put uh put in touch with the man
named Emil Corner, who was an artillery captain Opprussian and
he was stationed at the Artillery and Engineering School of Charlottenburg.
So basically he had a background minus the calorie experience
like blacksjack person. You know, this is exact the kind
of man you want, you know, if you're looking for,
like a single man, you know, uh of a middle
level officer rank to bring your forces up to par
you know it. Uh, they really kind of struck gold
with them. The guy was also like a big war hero,
you know. He uh he signed on for a five
year work agreement with Chile AIDS and he basically the
Chileans told him, like you know, basically they turn our
forest into the Prussian Army. Okay, and after becoming a
Chilean officer himself corner sort of the armies inspector general
for a decade from until nineteen ten. Okay. So the
army that the army that Pinochet joined joined in nineteen
thirty three, Okay, suspicious year, right, And Uh, basically this
army had just been like restructured into kind of like
the Prussian Army of Latin America. Okay, it was a
totally different institution then, Uh than that that that was,
you know, people entered, you know, like a generation earlier.
You know that like Pinichet's father, like you know, would
have would have encountered. Pinochet was born. Uh, he was
born in November nineteenth, November twenty fifth, nineteen, nineteen fifteen.
He was the descendant of Breton immigrants and uh and Basques.
His bass carritage was maternal. The family had been in
Chile since the seventeenth century. The Breton immigrants were recent.
But that's uh, that's a very interesting pedigree at least,
I think. So Penichet always wanted to be a soldier.
His great uncle was a veteran of the war in
the Pacific, his uh you know, his his godfather told
him about you know, uh serving in the French army
in World War One. Eventually his father kind of like relented,
even though he wanted him to study medicine, you know,
and pursue a more kind of traditional path to the
cloud because, like Pinochet, his family was well off. You know,
they weren't. They weren't people who needed, you know, a
military officer's son to enjoy upward mobility, and uh, what
was common, uh, what was common among his counterie of officers,
including you know, historians have taken the oral histories of
these guys who came of age when pinishated it, and
there's actually a fair amount of like these in conflict
literature on this. You know, I'm not not necessarily friendly variant,
but it's it's pretty value neutral. But these guys, it
wasn't just Pinish it. He wasn't just kind of like
romantic dream or outlier like the officers of that generation.
Pretty much to a man, they talked about pious Catholicism
and a childhood fascination with with like military heroes, you know,
and like the discipline of you know these you know
these uh, the you know, the these these officers who
were you know who in in like Prussian uniforms, you know,
but like flawless like raide drill and things like that.
You know, like this is basically like any like any
kid of like European stock, like European or Arab or
like you know, adjacent stock in Chile, Like this is
what he wanted to be, you know, like they can't
really be overstated. Like Robert O'Kelly, who's Pinechet's economics minister,
you know, and again, uh, you know, a guy of
European pedigree, his grandfather was a was a navy man
and the word of the Pacific, like he said, like
in his biography, it never is autobiography. It never It
never occurred to me to be anything else than a sailor, Like,
without a doubt, the navy is a vocation like the priesthood.
Not everybody is called to be tied to the post.
Like that's the way these guys looked at it again,
you know, like where the where they where the vanguard
of the fatherland and where you know, and we're and
we're you know where they we're the church militant. You know,
that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural identitarian variables.
You know, the uh and there was ah the army
uh in there a a uh even even when even
when a military draft was implemented pursue it to the
you know, twentieth century reforms like the way like army literature,
like they're like recruiting literature at the time and kind
of like they're they're sort of you know, after these
like kind of like after action what amounts are kind
of like these kind of like romantic novels of like
The Daring do of of Officers and the Ward of
the Pacific. But it's kind of like dressed up as
like after action reports. Like it was like all like
the theme that is like on the nose, like through
all this stuff is uh. You know that you know,
being a soldier is is it's it's it's different than
any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to the fatherland,
you know, like like a monk gives his life to
the church, you know, And it's it's not that that
that's unique. It's uniquely Catholic. It's like you need, it's
both uniquely Prussian and uniquely Catholic, which is you know,
a collision of ah of opposing tendencies. But you know
that's uh that there's there's a syncreticism. There's a syncretism
there that's really interesting. But the uh there it also
something and this was again like another Prussian tendency that
was brought to bear. There's a really strong devotion to
continual study of warfare it uh. Pinochet said that, you know,
he first started reading when he got to the military.
His first reading assignment was The Rebellion of the mass
it is or the Revolt of the Master it is
by Jose Ortega. He guess it's and a lot of
friends of ours will be familiar with it. And the
Gallic War is by Caesar. After that he became this bibliophile.
Pinochet when he died one to approximately fifty five thousand books, like,
many of which were rare and one of a kind.
So he was a he was another like man of books.
That makes me feel a bit better about my own
book coorting. Frankly, now here's get into kind of like
the nitty gritty of what created this, you know, kind
of irreparable divide between you know, civil society and the
Chilean army. You know what it wasn't just the kind
of factors we talked about a moment ago of an
identitarian sort, but very very few military personnel actually voted
in elections in Chile, even though they were they were
technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but it was considered unseemly.
You know, Uh, soldiers aren't supposed to be political, and
you know, not just because they're they're supposed to serve,
you know, the fatherland first and foremost, and not not
discreet you know, political factions or interests they're in, but
it's also like it's it's it's viewed. They viewed it
as like beneath them, you know, particularly consider the kind
of elitist and and you know, uh monastic sort of
a kind of like self concept these men had. And
also the uh when the when the draft was uh,
when when the conscript when the when the conscription regime
was implemented, you know, uh, the like the new conscripts.
I couldn't vote, you know, because they weren't they weren't, uh,
they weren't twenty one.
Speaker 1: What's interesting I saw an interview with Michael Flynn. I
think Patrick bed David was interviewing and Michael Flynn said
the same thing. He said when I was in I
never voted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no. And it's it's really dysfunctional. I mean,
I mean the US military is like it's like as
awful as the rest of the fucking regime. But it's
it's really, really, really dysfunctional. It's on its own face
for you to have you know, any like when you're
talking aout the officer corps of the enlicited ranks, did
it you know, be like committed to some you know
some like electoral position. Yeah, you know, it's some people
can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
You know, you know what pre servers fook you for
basing Like I I know what I'm talking about in
this regard, Okay, I I Am not gonna argue the
point because it's obvious. But the it considering, uh, considering
the size of that of Chile's electorate and the number
of commission and noncommissioned officers and the forearmed services taken together,
and this is both politically and statistically significant. Like military votes,
they're like if if if I'm listening to an authors
had voted in appreciable numbers, it may not have decided
any any any and you know, any presidential context one
or the other, but relatively but relatively small pluralities decided
national elections regularly in Chile, and particularly in nineteen fifty
eight and nineteen seventy, where uh uh something like thirty
nine thousand votes, you know, like like we're what put
the winning candidate over you know, it's the uh and
also too like it was it was, it was. It
was against the law. It was a literally, it was
literally a crime for you know that would have available
to court martial to protest, you know. Uh. And that
was a pretty that was a pretty widely that's pretty
that's pretty loosely interpreted. Okay, I mean anybody, you know,
a man could be brought up on charges and have
failed to courts martial, you know, not just for joining
you know, some not just like throwing bricks in the
street at you know, at at at capitalists or whatever,
but just if you associated with the parties that were
considered to be you know, having have a platform that
tended towards you know, trying to get this credit the
political process, you know, based on ideological commitments or you know,
associating with parties who's you know, do his type of members,
you know, had said things that imped impugned the honor
of the fatherland like this is this is not something
they would have fucked with. Okay, like even even more
they inclined and they weren't.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 2: Pinochet to I mean starting a service, you know, quite
literally in nineteen thirty three, there was even greater kind
of technical aptitude demanded by new officers, especially in the
Navy and the Air Force, but I mean also in
the army, particularly as regards command and control, you know,
the UH so, as these officers became more world leagues,
they had to be like they'd send them they'd be
sent to you know, they'd be sent to uh Africa, Asia, Europe,
other places in Latin America, you know, to a NL
liaison capacity and to like learn from other militaries and
like as these guys developed, you know, linguistic aptitudes, food
for foreign languages. As they literally saw the rest of
the world, you know, they talked to you know, they
they talked to Wehrmacht officers, you know, they talk to
you know, French officers, they talk to guys you know,
like serving uh in uh In, you know, in Mexico
close to the American border or whatever. Like, they developed
a worldly perspective and they came to understand you know,
as time went on, they you know, they came to
they came to understand the Cold War, you know, and
they developed an idea of like where Chile featured into that,
you know, by the Pinochet era. Like It's what I'm
getting is that these weren't just like a bunch of
provincial roots or something, or like we're trying to turn
back the clock or whatever. And they weren't just you know,
mercenaries for hire in the service of you know, basically
acting like acting like you know, like like like Pinkertons
on steroids, you know, beat down or calc Trent like
waver types. You know. They they developed an understanding of
like velt politique and where Latin America featured into that equation,
you know. And this brings us to what was insidious
about Alende. Okay, Sauter LNDE in the nineteen sixties was
a very busy boy. Okay. His schedule took him in
North Korea, North Vietnam, in East Germany. Allende believed that
the DDR was his best bet in terms of identifying
a patron the which is very interesting. And the DDR
it wasn't just the spear point of Warsaw pack like
the National volks Army wasn't just a spear point of
warsaw pact. And not only was East Germany kind of
like the crown jewel of like the Stalinist satellite states,
East Germany practiced the kind of world politique in a
way that the Cubans did, but like a little bit
more sophisticated. Even like there's East Germans and Angola, there
was East Germans Yemen which became South Yemen. There's these
Germans uh in Ethiopia, Eritrea. There's East Germans on Grenada
when you know, the US Army assaulted Grenado in eighty
three for a for what I'm want to do, a
rump state of twenty million people and a regime that
was constantly uh dealing with an existential threat on its
inner border. Like literally like these guys were remarkably active
in uh In, in waging the Cold War and in
a in like a direct action capacity, you know, the same,
nothing like the bottom Minehoff Gang to say nothing of
you know, uh them bank rolling and training the popular
front of Libers in Palestine, like it's remarkable, but Allende
knew this. Okay, in East Berlin, Aline met with the
party secretary general and the facto you know, head of
state to Ubrict who preceded Honiker from forty nine to
seventy one. Ubrict was General Secretary and then he was
under cremoniously sideline and favor of Honiker from nineteen seventy
one until the end. But uh he uh ubricked uh
put him in direct contact with Hermann Akson, who was
who was uh the Central Committee secretary for an natural
relation is the equivalent to the foreign minister. Okay, action's
assignment for the duration of his tenure, particularly in the
sixties and seventies, he was the function as a liaison
with communist parties throughout the world, you know, and and
basically the this this is the stuff that smacks of,
you know, like the old days the Communist International, you know,
which uh with Stalin you know, put an end to
by Dick Todd and and turned into common form. But
it's but but it goes to show you how uh
how these this these things never really went away. You know,
they developed a certain operational sophistication and and kind of
institutionalization and and and kind of and kind of a
streamline operational set of operational tendencies. But you know, they
they remained the same beast of prey, but with different
slightly different stripes. It uh as it were. But whether
lend they met with the Stazi directly and Eric Milk,
it's not known, but I imagine he would have. Okay,
Eric Milk was uh, he was in direct content with
Daniel Ortega, with uh, with Kadafi, with Minjitsu, with uh,
you know, all these all these uh, all these proxy
all these proxy elements that the Warsaw Pact was was uh,
you know, directly supporting and Shtazi men. Uh. Their role
was not just as uh you know, policeman and as
espionage espionage agents. They had a role that we considered
it more kind of the more suggestive of special operations command.
It's complicated, but uh, the the East Berlin basically treated
accents recommendations like they came from on high. Okay, he
was that good. I think of this kind of like
a I think kind of I think of this kind
of it's kind of like a a red crowd version
of George Kennon like legit, I mean, I have, like
all respect, A lot of these d d R functionaries
are damn impressive, definitely the best that the worst up
pack produced. Of course, what A Linda was doing didn't
go unnoticed. C I a Defense Intelligence CIA at that time.
It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it
was still uh, it was still primarily like the eyes
and ears of of American intelligence behind the East blot,
behind the Berlin Wall, you know, so CI they took
notes immediately when Allende was started popping up in East Berlin.
Uh Nixon, Uh Nixon, Uh, said the Kissinger. He's like, look,
you know, this Alandi's not he's not some he's not
some simple farmer or some storry eyed you know, uh
just uh, you know, self styled. Uh. You know, a
grarian revolutionary like this guy is serious, you know, and
he's he's not what you know American liberals are presenting
him as. And he's not benign. You know. Kids in
Jerre obviously agreed. I mean, I you know, it's uh.
The uh also is the fact chill the Chilean the
Chilean Communist Party was uh. It was by far the
largest and best organized in South America. Okay, And that's
one of the things. That's one of the things that
made it appealing to the d d R. And also
we were talking about the Germans and the wonderful things
they did for Chile. Well, some of those Germans were
unfortunately communists, and they you know, we're building up political
architecture on the other side, you know, and this was, uh,
this is very much a problem it uh. I mean
from a geopolitical view, I mean, think about that, like
the cone of Latin America just becoming communists, you know,
or uh, all of Latin America falling and maybe Brazil
remaining kind of in this garrison siege capacity. I mean
that that changes everything, you know. And like I've always said,
like I'm always saying, it didn't matter that these Marsis
Lens regimes are totally dysfunctional and created a created economies
of shortage. There's all kinds of governments that don't really work.
Right that that Shambalaine perpetuity, It was very possible. It
was not at all the stuff of kind of like
fever dream nightmare fantasies to imagine a world where post
aton like the entire the entire like developing world or
colored world goes red like kind of the remaining uh
like American friendly regimes outside of UH, Northern Europe and Japan,
you know, just like eventually just kind of like succumb
and fall and America becomes kind of just like this
say Garrison state, like surrounded by like a hostile communist
world like that very easily could have come about, okay,
and that that would be a very dangerous planet. You know,
we get argue at some or we can discuss at
some point whether that's preferable or not to the current situation.
But it that's Monday morning quarterbacking in the epoch of
you know, say nineteen seventy three, you know, seventy four
to seventy five, this was absolutely a very real possibility. Okay.
Now the minute, the minute, the moment A. Lindy was
elected President Chile, UH, the East German regime like through
Stazi support behind him. Okay, within a couple of weeks,
it doesn't like COVID operations. The grilla warfare specialists who
were from the Stazi, they were dispatched at santiagoa nder
diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Bloc UH
special operations capable elements, including from Czechoslovakia and and and
then the Soviet Union itself and all probability. They set
up a camp near Valparaiso. Uh. The Soviets furnished weapons,
prefabricated huts. They like they literally just set up this
kind of like gorilla warfare school, like bam, you know,
like it's like, uh, it's like if you buy like
a McDonald's franchise. It's like you buy like a you buy,
you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan, and
they show up and it's just like bam, you know,
here's here's like your franchise literature. Here's a buy klashn
coughs you. Here's something like snazzy freaking uh you know,
uh uniforms, and you know, and here here's some you know,
like here's something like enameled like red star pins for
your freaking cap and like you're good to go, you know,
like go go go, go go kill capitalists. But the
uh and Milk actually wrote he he Milk, it would
uh he'd set out these what amounts to enter off
his memos to every directorate of Stasi periodically and on
December eighteenth, nineteen seventy two, he said, uh, you know
the checks the d DR well will welcome with enthusiasm
and happiness the great victory of the National Celerity movement
for obtaining the freedom of the Secondary General or the
Communist Party. Our friend and comrade Lewis Krvellon, like Corvellon,
was some guy who'd been like in prison in Chile.
I can't remember exactly what the and Milk would call.
He called UH Ministry for State Security Officers like checkis,
you know, because there was a callback to his days
as ah as an NKVD hitter, you know, during during
the war in Spain and later the UH later UH
the Second World War. But my point is like he
was attuned like like Chile was very much like a
key like theater in his mind. Okay, That's why he was.
That's why he was UH like braying about you know
these these uh these kind of like like like little
chess moves in Chile, like in Blu of other theaters.
The the Stazi set set to work UH in Chile,
UH targeting uh, you know, target tareting Pinochet loyalists and
what have you. You know, Essentially essentially creating like a
mirror of you know, in security terms, you know, like
this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't
Allende wasn't in the driver's seat long enough for Santiago
to become you know, like a giant, a giant version
of of of East Berlin. But I think I mentioned
to you can't remember we were on here or not.
But like Ali North mentioned that when he was uh
when he traveled do uh, when he traveled in Nicaragua
in nineteen eighty three or eighty four, like when when
he himself was under diplomatic cover, like he relaid back
by like telex that you know, like Monagua now is
like it's like this like a scale model of of
Checkpoint Charlie on the inner German border, you know, and
it now what what happened during Pinochet's rain or like
the junta's reign, Chile had deteriorated into what something comparable
to the years of lead in Italy. Okay, there's a
leftist urban guerrilla terror groups. They began uh a campaign
of bombings, assassinations, you know, exactly the kind of bread
and butter stuff that the Shtasi taught people to do.
You know, there was a that there's bombs exploding in Santiago,
in Vienna, Del mar In, uh, in all the major
you know kind of commercial hubs and larger towns at Chile.
You know, they were they were, they were, they were,
they were targeting supermarkets, buses, government offices, you know, like
shopping centers, you know, just like indiscriminately, like blowing people
to hell. You know, this really ramped up in Earnest
by the eighties, which is interesting. Between nine eighty three
and nineteen eighty six, there's more than a thousand bombings
attributed to the Clandestine Communist Front and uh, this grouping
that called itself the Revolutionary Movement, which is probably an
umbrella of it was probably like a like numerous like
nonstate actors like under this kind of like rubric, you know,
but because it may like they uh they uh. A
total of twenty one national police and military casualties were
attributed to them in just four years nineteen eighty four
nineteen eighty eight. East Germany contributed six million, seven or
ninety five thousand and fifteen dollars to the Chilean Communist Party.
That's a huge sum for forty years ago, and this
is East Germany doing it. So they're basically just like
they're they're they're throwing everything in their cash or there
is basically that they've availed for, you know, foreign operations
of a military sort. They're they're just like throwing this
into the at their proxies in Chile. You know, I
mean this was a this is a this is a
highly valued battle theater. Okay, the UH the most serious
incident I guess of a in terms of potential harm
and the most kind of spectacular not not not let
like literally spectacular in terms of the spectacle that I created,
not spectation like it's wonderful. Uh So there seven nineteen
eighty six UH gorillas ambushed Pinochet's motorcade near Santiago pener
State survived, He didn't, he didn't take any an he led,
but UH five members of his escort were killed, ten
people were wounded. The UH it was basically like a
comic casing of attack. Twelve gunmen from UH calling themselves
the Manuel where at Riga's Revolutionary Front, UH like simply
assaulted with with automatic weapons and grenades. There was a
there was never a trial. The government ever announced in
the arrest. Presumably these men, those that were not killed
at the scene were running down and and and and
and and done away with. Eventually, Uh, there were some
including UH Cludon Buro Amiida, you know, who UH broke
with the communists completely owing to UH what he claimed
was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of the
East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure he
I think he probably believed this, you know, He's like,
I came to realize that if if you know what
was then my side one, you know, we we end
up no better than the East Germans and what have you.
Speaker 3: And he broke with.
Speaker 2: Communism and he made he managed to convince everybody, including
Pinochet's people, that he uh that this was like a
genuine conversion, and he went on he went on to
in post Chile to be a like a heavy personage,
but that he actually uh his he was posted as
UH as an ambassador in Moscow. I don't know if
it was like like like who's in humor or what,
but the it uh, you know, and the and the
list goes on and on of uh these you know,
communist attacks. UH, even after Pinechet stepped down, you know,
these these kinds of attacks continued. There's one, I mean
not in the same kind of earnest but uh, some
of these revolutionary types they they there's like this crazy
in nineteen ninety six, the sem ninety six they escaped, uh,
they escaped from the yard of the of this of
this political prison they were held in, like with the
help of these of these these orovisinal Ira operatives, like
just like a helicopter like pulled them off the yard,
just like you know, stuff like you'd see in some
fucking like John Wick or Jason Boorde movie or something.
But the you know, the and you know, not not
for nothing either, like uh, I mean maybe maybe people
don't know this. Like Honaker uh Eric Honecker was buried.
He was buried in Chile like after he died and
they laid the d DR flag on his coffin and everything,
you know, like it's this was like this idea that
you know, the Ollendia regime, they were just these like
kind of like social democrats you know who you know,
just wanted to you know, kind of like give an
alternative system a chance, and these fascists, you know, just
just just destroyed that potentiality. You know. I mean it
was it was real war, Okay. I mean, there's no
choice about it. And if people want to, I'm sure
very nasty things happened to people who were suspected of
being communists or Communist sympathizers. But I mean what people want,
like war is a terrible thing, you know, and you
can't you can't only tell one side of these stories,
you know. I mean, I know the Shtazi was doing
pretty nasty things to people at the same time, and uh,
the Stazi were agents of a foreign government who were
trying to, you know, determine the political fate of a
of a sovereign country. So that's that's about all I
got for today. We can deep dive more into I mean,
there's a lie here, and frankly, I mean we can
we can deep dive more into, like the personage of
Pinichet if you want, when I get back from my trip,
but that you know, I kind of want to give
an overview of a situation as it were, as it
was you know, politically and u strategically and culturally and
everything else. I hope I've accomplished that. Well.
Speaker 1: One of the things that people bring up now because
of a Netflix mini series called a Sinister Sect. There
was a German colony called the Colonia Dignidad that is
accused of doing all sorts of like acts of torture.
People now say p and O Chein knows that there
were active child molesters operating in the country and he
would protect them everything. I mean, I hear people I
know saying these kind of things, and when you start
deep diving into it, it's like, yeah, I mean, the
guy was at war the whole time he was in office,
and you know, to say that he was aware of
all these things, and you know he just allowed him
to happen.
Speaker 2: But it's like, why would that even It's like every
the story always changed. I remember I remember when I
was in college and this guy was going around and
he wrote a couple of books. He was some journal
He was claiming that at the soccer stadium Pinochet's loyalists,
they'd they'd sit around watching people be beheaded and cheer it,
and they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them,
and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium.
I mean, that's like gross for all kinds of reasons,
but that that's that's so like fucking weird. This is
like not shit that happens, you know, It's like why
And I was like who who, Like like what's the
source for this? Like guys who were watching this like
came back and told you, like what, Like I it's
always like something sexually perverted and just like really really
really gross and just like outlandish, like it's you know,
the like for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become
this like fixation of theirs, you know, like uh, like
it's really weird. You know, it's like why why not? Uh?
Why not Sellizar Like why not Straws Nerd Like why not? Uh?
Prone like why why Pinochet? Like you know, Pinochet was
kind of like what you see is what you get,
you know, like he was, uh, you know, he's very
much like I mean, he was very much a like
we talked about. He was very much like a military
officer with a kind of Prussian mold who was also
like a very very very like pious kind of warrior catholic.
I mean that's there's not I mean there's not that
there's there's not really a lot there. I mean there's
a lot there, but I'm i mean, you know what
not not in terms of you know, these these kinds
of like deep dark and dirty secrets. Plus it's also
too like the kind of there's a beenality the kind
of horrible stuff that goes on at war. It's not
like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo Nazi
colony of child molesters who were like experimenting with people's
DNA and like a soccer stadium where guys like practice
beast reality. But it's not that's that's something from like
the Warped Mind to somebody who like watches too much
Hentai or something, you know, like I this it really is,
you know, it's like but it's like for years, you know,
people tell me that that Earnest, like that Nazis they'd
like take people's skin off and if they had tattoos,
they'd make it into lamp shades and like show their friends.
So it's like why would anybody do that? So you're
basically saying that like the Germans are like a bunch
of Jeffrey Dahmers, Like like why why would they even
occur to anybody? You know, Like uh, beyond the fact
that it's like okay, like where you're getting this information
and like who's like telling this to people? Like, oh, hey,
you know what I did today? Like I I like
I found out with these childlisting Germans and then like
one of the stadium where like this chip got like
raped by dogs. It was awesome. I mean like like
where where's this coming from? Like who's just closing these things?
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, well hit up some plugs and we'll
let on this.
Speaker 2: For sure. Uh, you can find me at real Thomas
seven seven seven that substack dot com. You can find
me on Twitter x real Capital r E L Underscore
number seven h M A S seven seven seven. I'm
going to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content
for Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number
seven h one as space TV. And I think people
will appreciate what I'm going to be dropping there. And uh,
by the end of the month, season two with a
Mind Feaser podcast is going to drop, and at which
point all season one content is going to be free,
so be able to access everything from season one and
all special edition content for free and subscriptiononer Season two
is only physically five dollars a month, and that's like,
that's as low as I can go and still remain
and still not eat a loss. So like, unless you're
a hobo, you can afford that. So and I'll make
it worth your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free
stuff too. That is uh, that is like a.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, and I'm sure I echo everyone
else when I say this, safe travels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a
few days.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the
Pekanana Show. Thomas returns. How are you doing, Thomas?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, Thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, this is long awaited. Last time we did
a stream together, people asked, you know, we're asking about
books and things like that. So my idea was I
told you before, right before you started recording, was like
books that every partisan should read and should be familiar with,
So jump right in whenever you're ready.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I always include the caveat, and I
think people I guess I come off as like annoyed
where people perceive it that way because people are constantly
asking me like I'll oh, I'll drop like a postu.
What about something you know, like on the Spanish Civil
War or about you know, the Third Reich or about
the War twin the States, and they'll be like, what's
a book recommendation on that? But what they mean is,
you know, like where can I find some sort of
concise cliffs notes version of you know, like the revisionist
perspective with World War two or something like that doesn't exist?
You know, some constantly how to admonish people like look
like not everything is in a book. There's not. There's
not like the Big Book of World War two? And
why why court narratives are wrong or there's not you know,
why the why the wardsman the States like wasn't about
like people being mean to black people? You know, like
it's there's not You're not going to find that. However,
there are there are seminal texts that you kind of
have to have more than a rudimentary familiarity with to
be considered an educated person. And like what books are
used for is you know, books are a tool a
I mean not only for you know, not only their
record of you know, raw data and you know, like
literally historical record, but it's also I mean to use
them as conceptual tools to you know, to help identify
variables and phenomenon you know that that shape you know
that can sexual horizon on an that box, you know,
for example, where that identify you know, variables that you
know constitute as a causal nexus, you know, the reasons
for you know, historical events, you know, be them like
seminole or like rather prosaic. So you know, I I
want to include a caveat here too, Like I'm not
dropping a list of This isn't some like top ten
list where you know, like the answers to all of
your questions about what's wrong with the way historical questions
are presented or like found within these pages. That's not
how it works, you know. But at the same time, again,
I I think for anyone to have any kind of meaning,
for anyone to be able to call themselves educated on
political or historical affairs, like on the theoretical side, you know,
they they have to be acquainted with these things. First
and foremost, You've got to read Aristotle's politics. Not just
all political philosophy in the Western world derives from Aristotle.
That's inarguable. Okay, the relationship between Plato and Aristotle and
the kind of tension they're in and to what degree,
like Aristotle is a repudiation of Plato that's another question,
and that deals mostly with metaphysics and things, Okay, And
yet you can't extricate metaphysics from politics in some sort
of discreet way. But the point is, like, that's not,
that's not what I'm up on for purpose of purposes
of of why I'm of of what I'm suggesting here,
Like what I'm suggesting is that you know, if you're
talking about if you're talking about the Western tradition of
political philosophy, you're you're you're beginning with Aristotle, Okay. And
even even even even those who aim to break with
aimed to break with Aristotle to greater or lesser degree,
like they were in dialogue with them and relying on
the pre Socratics and things. Okay, So the politics and
uh Nica machy and epics have got to be on
your list. And in order to put those things in context,
there are secondary sources. You know, Leo Strauss and a
guy named Joseph Propsy. There's this book called The History
of Political Philosophy, which is an outstanding book. And it's
not it's not it's not full of like STREUSSI and
bullshit or anything like that. It's like very much like
a hard and fast. So that condensed version, I mean
it's it's a hugely voluminous book, but it's got a
section basically, Uh it becomes like Xeno is Zeno, like uh,
Zeno and Heraclitis and ends with you know, Heidegger and
a and I think, uh, I can't remember who the
final entry is, but it goes it ends in the
mid twentieth century. But uh, that's that that I guess
there is like a great like secondary resource and you know,
the if you want, if you want, but Aristotle, I
think any any translation that's worth anything has got is
you know, he's got a complete annotation such that you know,
you should be able to you know, kind of get
by with without you know, having to move mountains to
you know, put things in context. By the way, secondary sources.
If your modern political theory is the progenity of Hobbs,
you've got to read Leviathan. Okay. I think a Leviathan.
Leviathan is the political philosophy kind of like Moby Dick.
It's a literature. It's like this daunting, voluminous, incredibly worthy
toma okay, like, but it's there's nothing in it that's
wasted or there's nothing in it. There's not there's nothing
in it that's that's superfluous. There's Hobbs is uh. Hobbs
is fascinating because on the one hand, you know, like
I think of I think of I think Carl Schmid's
relationship to Hobbes is being kind of like Marx's relationship
to Hegel. You know, Schmidt very much repudiated hobbs ontology
and kind of is uh, you know, kind of kind
of what he positive about man and like anthropological terms,
but Hobbs' description of authority in man's relationship to authority
and uh, the essentially theological characteristics they're in were and
are tremendously insightful, and the uh for better even if
we're that not true. You know, again, every everything subsequent
in uh, you know, the Enlightenment tradition, if you accept
that sort of conceptual timeline, and you know, even things
that repudiated the kind of modernist perspective and and and
you know, on on the political side of things, I
mean like derives from Hobbes as well. So I'd say
that I'd say that, uh, Levia then should probably be
number two. I Uh, Machiavelli is the Prince. If you
take like, at least traditionally, if you went to a
liberal arts college and you took like political theory, that's
one of the first books they to sign you. It's
not that there's such great insight in it. I think it,
you know, I think it captures it just sort of
a snapshot of the European political mind. But it did
represent that kind of It was the first book of
its kind that was widely circulated among literate classes. Okay,
And obviously, like my list is going to be like
heavy on political theory, such that some people might object,
like you know, going to their own sort of conceptual prejudices.
Number four, I'd say probably, uh, Hegel, a study of history.
If Hegel is kind of like Marks nobody, I mean,
aside from the fact that there's there's a kind of
there's a perverse feared of in literal like association between
the two thinkers. But Hegel's is cited constant lead, but
almost nobody actually reads Hegel. Reading Hegel kind of like
reading your Ristotle is is I think a lifelong endeavor,
you know, and you you'll return to the same texts
again and again for clarity and because uh, as one's
own sort of understanding comes into high relief. Proverbially speaking,
you know, you'll you'll, you'll come to understand more and more,
you know, what is under discussion and what's a fundamental
concern and he Gaelian thought. But if you're any if
you're any kind of if you're any kind of political theorist,
you know, Hegel is a kind of like your metaphor
your starting point for like metaphysics, as metaphysics is such
that it it dovetai inextricably with the political you know,
and there's more than a kind of narrow overlap there.
My uh I uh, I don't know. You I'd say
I'd say, for five or six you should read the
Federalist papers. Not because there's like incredible wisdom there, Like
there's really not an other than Hamilton and j Like
I don't get a lot out of the Federalist papers
and stubs in in terms, but if you want to
understand kind of like the confused like pastiche of what supposedly,
you know, was the underlying rationale for the American Revolution
was really wasn't a revolution in any any meaningful sense.
You know, it's I it got branded as such on
one of these kinds of romantic instincts of people like
uh Jefferson, who uh, you know, had had kind of
an absurd and distasteful reverence for Jacobinism. But if you
want to understand, even to this day, although it's like
faded because you know, there's not there's not any like
substant discourse in America about anything of of of real importance,
but you do you do still see, at least in
the federal courts occasionally you do still see like reasoning
directly lifted from the Federalist papers. You know. The degree
to which is you know, the degree to which that's
cosmetic versus substantive, I mean, is arguable, but I think
at least a once over and even this this goes
from people who are like you know, in Europe as
well too, because obviously this this the occupation regime that
they're unfortunately availed to is uh is the American regime.
You know, I'd say that, and you can find I mean,
you could probably downloak like a PDA for the Federal's papers,
like after like a two minute freaking Google search. You know,
I'd getting into the more esoteric I'd say, uh, Mercia
Eliotti The Sacred and the Profane. I I think it's
a very important book. It's I I really, I really
get a lot of the stuff like Rene Gillon too,
but I that's that's I wouldn't I wouldn't say that
that's essential uh reading for most people unless they're deeply
intrigued by comparative theology as well as you know, what
I think of is kind of deep politics, you know,
the kind of the kind of conjunction of a of
anthropological and cultural phenomenon with the political. But the segment
in the Profane it very much bears on the twentieth century,
and uh, I think, uh it's a it's a splendid
rebuttal to this kind of preference for for secularism that
you find among a that you find among the postmodern right.
At least that's one of the reasons I initially gravitated
towards Mercia Eliotti. He's written a bunch of other He
wrote a bunch of other stuff too, Like he wrote
a book called Shamanism that was great. He wrote a
book on called the Myth of Eternal Recurrence, which is
great but not But again, those kinds of things were
only obliquely related to the topic of hand i'd uh,
Carl SCHMIDTZ, No, Most of the Earth is essential reading
if you want to understand the world system post Westphailure.
The book I'm writing now about international jurisprudence since World
War Two, I consider it I intended to be a
compliment piece or a successor to know Most of the Earth.
It's an arguable that the world system is is fundamentally
uh grounded in in juristic reasoning. And that's why the
sea of sovereignty invests in the judiciary now and not
not in any not not in the executive branch of government.
And it's it's that way like on a planetary scale, Okay,
I mean there's the every every government on this planet
is structured basically the same, you know, Like that's one
of the reasons, as we talked about its ridiculous people
talk about democracy versus not democracy, as if this is
still the Cold War. And yeah, obviously there's systems where
you know, the executive branch wields more power than others
actually or or or symbolically. But the rationale of of
of government activity in war and peace terms is is
inextricably it derives from juristic reasoning, and that's that's inescapable
and for no other reason, that's why one should read
numblest of the Earth. It's voluminous, it's about five or
six hundred pages, but it's I mean, it's a dense read,
but it's actually highly readable, and it's better than any
It puts post war political order in context better than
any other kind of single value a lot of people.
What pops up again and again, like the Karl Schmidt
text that pops up on most people's lists is the
concept of the political and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's actually I believe the concept political was a lecture
like a two or three lecture series that was transcribed
and uh, it's it's not I mean, it's yeah, it's important, okay,
because that's like the political, that's the ontology that underlies
like the Schmidtian perspective. But it's not. It's a very
it's a very incomplete understanding. If you're just gonna read
like one one Karl Schmidt text and I, like I said,
I think is plus know most of the Earth was
is like post war kind of like magnum opus. You know,
it puts it puts the experience the first d half
of the twentieth century in perspective it and as a
as a follow up to that or as a compliment
to that, I I'd suggest anybody who insists in themselves
right wing read Imperium by Francis Yaqui. I don't consider
Imperium to be as esoteric as some people do. Maybe
that's because of my background in terms of what I
always kind of gravitated too instinctively as regards like theoretical
texts and things like that. But for those that aren't
as familiar with sort of the source material that Yacky's
relying on, there's a book called Profit of Decline by
a guy named John Ferrenkopf. He's an independent scholar who
for a long time was based here in Chicago. This book,
Profited Decline is both like an intellectual biography of Oswald
Spangler as well as kind of kind of a like
an abridged explanation of of his whole body at work
and core concepts. You know, I it's uh, that's frankly,
it's not in the cards. I think for a lot
of people to read, uh, the two volumes or three
volumes of the Decline of the West in its original form,
and then you know kind of kind of pour over
that and imperium like some kind of scholastic and then
try and decipher you know, the context. I'd uh, i'd
I'd say George Sorell is ah essential reading. I can't
remember if we're on number six, number seven, Sorel's Reflections
on Violence. I think pretty much everything Cerell wrote is
worth reading, but Reflections Reflections on Violence is uh is
highly significant to the twenty revolutionary paradigm as and as
well as uh, there's if there's some additions that have
kind of a there's this essay on Sorell. Uh wrote
a great essay on why and why Socrates desire to
be executed? And uh, that's a peculiar significance to the
radic will write like it, like it all in all times.
And it also it distinguishes the partisan from the radical.
And you know that's there's there's all kinds of like
remarkable stuff. There some people who I think probably haven't
actually read Cerel or they or they've read write in
but don't fully understand the context like they seem they
seem to like look at Cerell as some like heterodox socialists.
Or I mean, and he was that too, but that's
not really the key takeaway. He's not just Werner Sombart
but with uh, but but with a kind of anthropological
streak interspersed there in he's one of the he's one
of the most I say, I put him in a
part with with with Lenin in terms of his understanding
of a practice in uh, within a revolutionary paradigm. I'd
uh this is probably gonna strike some people as peculiar,
but i'd uh i'd include Men among the Ruins. But
Julius Evil, Uh, that's a remarkable book, and I think
a lot of Evel's other stuff. It's probably not a
waste of time to read it, but it's totally different
than Men among the Ruins, and specifically the addition that
was put out by Inner Traditions Publishing House, which is
Michael moynihan's outfit, or it was because that one contains
a lot of stuff that was later redacted by from
whatever reason, by like various publishers. But Men among the Ruins,
it's it's it's it's lacking in evil is uh kind
of like symbolic his musings that symbolic psychology and metaphysics
and things and oh of that. It's very much diagnostic
in character. And uh, it's about the best description of
the European political situation in the later Cold War that
have come across and it uh, it's it's very very
accessible so long as somebody has a rudimentary understanding of
of the Great War in World War Two. It's a
remarkable book. I'd uh. The King James version of the
Bible is essential reading, even if you're not a Protestant,
even if you're not religious. It's a arguably the most
significant text written in the English language, and if you
want to do like the Anglophone kind of inner world. Conceptually,
it derives from uh, it derives from Aristotle, it derives
from stuff like our theory in a legend, and it
derives from the King James Bible, which is kind of
a which which is kind of a conceptual reality into itself.
I can't explain it anything better than that. And it's
it's very different than every other translation, which uh, you know,
people people argue about the soundness of it theologically, that's
not important. I mean it is important, okay, but like
for purposes, I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's warrants a uh a, a secular reading if
you're a if you're a white Westerner and in an
anglophone culture. And finally, because uh, people constantly ask me
for like some seminal revisionist Third Reich book if you're
only gonna read one like revisionist history book and the
Third Reich. John Toland's biography of Adolf Hitler is essential
reading tooland was the was the Hitler biographer, okay. David
Irving is is like the scribe of the Third Reich.
But if Hitler himself, it's John Toland, okay, and his
biography is just that it's the life of Adolf Hitler,
and Tootland is the only story you know Hitler's family
was willing to speak to. Like It's fate kind of
conspired to assign Toll into that role, as is often
the case with historical writers. As I age, I realize
more and more that that's true, and it's not some
sort of self uh created mythology that you know, historical
authors have have kind of crafted about their their endeavors.
Off the top of my head, that's some That's about
the best list I can come I can come up with.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask what about fiction.
Speaker 2: Frank Herbert's Dune is uh is essential, and you've got
to read Dune as uh like a complete like body
of work because uh, it's i mean science fiction is
a is a medium for political theory at base, I mean,
as as well as other things. That's one of the
reasons that spend so much time with it, like reading it.
And that's why you know, a lot of very a
lot of very strong people, you know that's a very
strong intellect of like have taken it seriously. And Herbert's
a perfect example of that. It's it's it's it's a
great it's outstanding philosophical discussion of you know, historical time.
I'd say, uh that that that's that's the top, that's
at the top of my list. Like read the Dune
books and read them in order. The book Dead City
by Shane Stevens, that's uh, that's the best. Uh, that's
the best gangster like book ever written. Like it's a
it's a rough book, it's very brutal, but that's that's
that's what the street was like in uh the early seventies.
And Shane Stevens was a guy who you can tell
from his he's of his writing that this was like
stuff that he witnessed and these are like people that
he knew, you know, like it's some it's it's like
like I mentioned to people that, uh, the best gangster
movies of all time, my opinion, are Carlito's Way and
mean streets and dead cities like in that vein, you know,
like it's it's it's a it's kind of like the
anti Hollywood gangster novel. It's somewhat hard to find these days.
There's a lot of overpriced paperbacks, but I can probably
I can probably find a PDF or like a really
priced paperback if if if people hit me up because
they can't because they can't find it, i'd uh Wuthering
Heights definitely belongs on that list I mentioned before. Like
people probably think that sounds like fruity or something, and
I mean whatever, like I don't, I don't, I don't
care if people think that that's that's the best uh
literary treatment of the tragedy and character of romantic love
in uh the English language. And and there's something uh
it deals it deals with with like what properly is
like supernatural. I don't mean like ghosts and goblins and stuff.
I mean, the you know, there is uh there, there
is there, there is something mysterious about arrows. And I
think it's the best. Uh. I think it's the best
best treatment of that. There's go ahead.
Speaker 1: There's a book that I've heard We've never even talked
about it, but there's a book I've heard you mentioned
on other other shows on your own of Human Bondage.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's definitely on my list too, by
Somerset Mom. Yeah, that's a fantastic book, man, And it's
it's uh, it's uh that that definitely is something every
every every every young person especially should read. I'd also uh.
I also there's a book called Armor by John Stakley,
which is sort of a it's sort of like a
spiritual counterparts to Starship Troopers. But I think it's I
think it's a lot better. Frankly, like Highland wrote some
fascinating stuff and uh, but he was kind of like
a pure he Uh he got very strange later in life,
Highlight did. And I mean that's fine. Like some of
his some of us weirder, wilder ship like the Number
of the Beast. I actually got a kick out of
but his Starship Troopers is uh is very much UH
as very much military science like harden Man's military science,
and like a fanciful setting to you know, facilitate, you know,
kind of like discussion they're in armor is very is
very much is a much more complete book, I think
on a on a similar subject, you know, and and
kind of like the the dehumanizing aspects of uh of
a you know of of hyper advanced warfare. But i uh,
for for reference, the uh stigly died uh rather young.
His only other novel was A Vampires, which is what
carbon John Carverenter based his movie Vampires on, which is
not a terrible adaptation with the book is way better
and uh basically in the novel, like vampires are a
real thing, but they're like vampism is like a is
like as like a disease organism. And these these guys
who are basically like Blackwater. They get retained by the Vatican.
They kill vampires when it's infestations are discovered, which is
obviously like a very kind of tough and disgusting job,
and like that's it's basically like about like just kind
of these guys' lives for like these PMCs de Stroy Empires.
It's really fucking cool and they get into some of
that like in the in the film, but it's it's
uh but that and uh though that Had and Armor
were like Stak's only two novels.
Speaker 1: I mean, he he was.
Speaker 2: He's very much like a cult kind of novelist in
part because he lived. I think he was only like
thirty eight when he died. There were there would have
been like very very good stuff emergent from his creative mind.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Carpenter's Vampires is pretty decent, but I
mean we got off on vampire movies. Now, what'd you
think in Near Dark?
Speaker 2: They're Dark's great and it's like, uh, let's like I
was telling people, like there's a there's uh like like
like like fags like the Lost Boys, like real motherfuckers
like Near Dark just like just like fucking Menace to
Society is like real ship and Boys in the Hood
is like modeling like pathetic ship and like real people
like Ropper Stomper and like fucking and fucking uh you know,
lames are into like americanustry X. It's like that kind
of deal. Like I actually think the uh Theklau the
klaus Kinski version of nos Feratu, which was released in
seventy nine. I mean Ernard hertsaw I directed it, but
klaus Kinski plays count Orlock, which is appropriate because laus
Kinski probably is like a vampire. But like, uh, that's
probably my favorite vampire movie. And speaking of John Carboner,
the John Carbenter TV movie of Salem's Lots is actually
pretty dope. And when I was a little kid, like
a little little kid, they'd always show it on TV,
and I found it really scary, and then like, uh,
as an adult, like it's it actually holds up. It's
it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about this one because I know you, like,
I know you like the lead actor in it. So
what do you think of The Hunger.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's pretty dope, man, And it's uh, the
Hunger is interesting, not just because uh, not just because
of like the David Bowie connection, but it's I think, uh,
I think Whitley Streiver wrote it, and he was very
weird man, you know. He he wrote some interesting stuff
in the eighties. He wrote The Wolf in He wrote
this book war Day, which is exactly what it sounds like.
It was like it. You know, it was kind of
like his take on you know, a general nuclear war.
I mean he mostly focused on like the sociological and
cultural aspects, you know, like the human side, but striver
he began insisting that he was having contacts with alien beings,
you know, and then like communion. You know that he
wrote that book that they made into a movie Fits
for Walking. He really like went off the rails. But
I believe he wrote the book that the Hunger that
they have to do the Hunger very much. It's where
the aesthetic of it is like Super nineteen eighty one
and like that, just like the very very early nineties
were kind of like neither the eighties nor like the
proper nineties, like the very very early eighties or kind
of a weird time. You know. It was like uh,
it was it was like not quite post punk, not
quite new wave like styles were weird, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean Bauhaus opens up, the opens up the.
Speaker 2: Yeah right right right, yeah, yeah, And that's that's the
kind of movie that like never be made today. Let
Alone by, Let Alone by, you know, let alone by
like a major studio or whatever, you know, Like it
like a movie like that were made it would be
like a guy like Ryan Gosling would like just like
throw money at it to like it's like a you know,
something he wanted to make, and it would it be
like a very limited release. Like that's another yeah, and
that's that's another thing. The reason that Epoch was cool
is because you'd see just like random stuff like that, like.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was Uh, there was like this
underlying judgment of like upper West Side wasps, Upper East
Side WASPS.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was part of it. Yeah, I
think that was part of it definitely, And that's why
it's always any It was a weird like post Ford
administration New York City like that setting. There's there was
a lot of Yeah, there was a lot of there's
like cast dynamics that were present there that were not
in like Chicago. We're in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's some like like the East Coast
is different. Man, it it just is you know, like
I but it's I like to rewatch it. I haven't
seen it, I think, and since I was since I
was in college. It's but the also the the reason
I like Near Dark so much, what it is going
forward is uh, it's like obvious, like like it's very
on those metaphor for like being an addicts and like
near Dark. They never even say what the vampires are.
It just becomes obvious, like that's what they are. But
they're like these but they're like these they're like these
outlaw like grimy white people. They're like these pecker would
you like live like addicts? You know?
Speaker 1: And there's also a lot of passing jokes in it,
like I remember when they when they set fire to
that one place and they're they're leaving and Bill Paston goes,
remember that fire we set in Chicago?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well it's also too like when when
the girl first turns the kid play by Adrian Pashtar,
like when he starts getting sick, he's like getting dope sick,
and that's like the nark in the bathroom's like, look, man,
I know what's I know what, I know what, I
know what's going on here? Like you know, get get
your ship together, don't let me see her again. He's
like he's like obviously coming down on him because he's like, oh,
you're a junkie. And it's like even if they don't
like they you know, the empires don't get what they need,
they get dope sick and like it's and he uh
like at first, uh, at first the kid finds like
the entire process discussed thing. But they're just like look
like you'll you like get used to it. You know,
you you end up being able to do things you know,
startself capable of. Like that's that's very much because like
being a vampire actually is disgusting and it sucks, you know,
like that and that's like it's and that you know.
That's why I uh, I've always found that to be
an apparable metaphor. And like if you're an addict, you
truly like do like live at night, you know, and like, uh,
you're you're almost like afraid of daytime, not just because
you know, because like you know, you'll be sick in
the morning and like that's when the police are around,
and that's you know, when you've got to you know,
you've got to like be aware of people finding out
what you are and coming down on you and ships
like that. And that's why I, I mean, I've always
like near Dark. I like it even before understood that
implication and the Catherine Bigelow who was and she's a
real fucking dying piece back in the day, but she
she's an interesting filmmaker man, and she's uh, she's a
rare uh like female female uh directors who have really
good directing shops, Like they're rare. I mean, it's just
like a fact. I'm not saying that's like come down
in females or something, but they but those that do
are good at their prey after, like, very very good
at it, like Lenny Riefenstall comes to ninth too obviously.
Speaker 1: But did you ever think thatse you mentioned klaus Kinsky
and it reminded me of of Natasha. Do you ever
think Cat People was like some weird kind of supposedly
supposed to be a I don't.
Speaker 2: Like Kid People, and like I people have challenged me
on that because I like Paul Strader so much. I
I don't know what he was going for with that.
The original Kid People was this kind of it was
this kind of camp horror movie from you know, the
nineteen forties. Paul Schrader's version it's kind of like it's
kind of like a shaggy Dog story. It doesn't really
go anywhere, and you know, it's it's kind of the consummate. Uh,
it's kind of the consummate example of style over substance.
But I mean Trader kind of lost his way for
a minute, Like I think, I think American Jigglo is
like a shitty movie, you know, like I know, and
that's one of the ones that kind of put him
on the map with like mainstream movie goers. You know
that that's and that's the movie also like made like
Richard Gear but like I I uh but I mean
I I I like his I like hardcore, I like
the Yakuza. Like those are like my favorite Paul Schrader movies.
And I think, uh and then later in life, uh
like Auto Focus, you know, which is the Bob Crane topic,
which is really kind of disturbing. Like that's a great film.
Speaker 1: It's a great film, but it is very disturbing. Yeah,
Defoe is really creepy in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's the uh well it's also it's a
but it's like even one of the reasons I like
Auto Focus and stuff, it's because like the like the
optics of it are really good and like in can't people,
it's like the optics are just like shitty. It like
looks like something it looks like in nineteen eighties, like
like car commercial or something like. I know it's I've
tried to watch it again during the I think during
like last year doing frodies like film Festival, I think
somebody watched Kid People. It was on my mind, what
I'm getting. I can't remember if somebody reviewed it like
in our circles a year or two ago, and so
it was I got on my mind again and I
think ace I asked me if I liked it or not,
and I'm like, no, I thought it sucked, but I'll
try watching it again, you know. And then I tried it.
I gave another chance. I'm just like, I don't this
is just this is just a shitty movie, man.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was like it wanted to be either a vampire
movie or a werewolf movie, and it was it couldn't
make up its mind what it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it didn't go anywhere, you know. Like that's
like I said, like it wasn't And I speculate I
speculate the narrative problems were because it was one of
those scripts that got like endlessly like slashed and burned
and like edited just kind of into oblivion. And then
like with the final product was like didn't really make
any sense. I mean that might not have been Trader's fault,
but again, what kind of what kind of grabbed me
about is that it's just not it's just like not
optically like a good movie.
Speaker 1: I got one more, I got one more movie for you,
and we'll get out of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Robert Harmon nineteen eighty six, The Hitcher.
Speaker 2: See that film starts out really strong, and it's like, uh,
Rutger Howard is like so weird that like he he's
just speaking of like klaus Kinski's kind of like it's
sort of like uh, spiritual counterpart or something. But it's
the suspense kind of gets blown like halfway through the movie,
like when it like because because the kid finally is
able to convince like the police that like this guy
actually is after him, and like like the like the
movie the first time of the movie is like dope
because it's like it's like this like Hitchcock type nightmare,
like the kid is he can't convince anybody this insanity's
actually really happening. But then like it, but but then
the movie kind of like shoots its load and and
then it just becomes uh you know, like like almost
like a slasher movie. And see Thomas Howells.
Speaker 1: In that, right, yeah, I think Jennifer Jason Lee too,
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And that was see Thomas Howells got more range than
say you go credit him with and uh I uh
but yeah, I think I know that like among like
midnight movie fans and stuff like back in the old
days as well as today. Like it's it's kind of
like beloved, but I I don't uh, I don't care
for it was on tip of my tongue a minute
ago with Catherine Bigelow is I believe she also directed
The Loveless, you know, which was William Dafoe, And I was,
that's like rockabilly like leather jackets stuff. So I think
it's cool. But it's like it's done right, like it's
uh and it's like it's kind of like the anti
Streets of Fire, which which I hate. Uh. I'll never
forget Walter Hill for making that piece of ship right.
He like he's goofy and like the whole the whole,
the whole movies is awful and cringe. But the Loveless, uh.
Speaker 1: He as did Eddie. He was the star Eddie and
the Cruisers.
Speaker 2: Right, and then the Cruisers had this bizarre sequel to
that like came out like ten years later.
Speaker 1: And in Canada. It was like based in Canada and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was bizarre too, because like it's uh, like
the whole They're supposed to be this like nineteen sixties band,
but they sound like a nineteen eighties band.
Speaker 1: It sounds like Spring. They sound like Spring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like these guys, like these these dudes and
the mullets and like skinny ties, playing like Bruce Springsteen song.
They're like from the sixties. And then like yeah, then
like Eddie fakes his death for like twenty years, which
is like lame as fuck, you know, and like because
he's like trd of being famous, so we just like
decides it's like it's like okay, motherfucker. Like the fact
that that trope is so stupid too. It's like, yeah,
I'm sick of being rich and famous. I'm gonna go
like work as a Walmart because like it'll be awesome.
Like uh, it's like, let's feel like a torture tortured artist. Yeah,
unless you got like five star heat, like you don't
fucking fake your own death, you know, Like that's that's
fucking retarded.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you this because we mentioned Howard
in The Hitcher, besides obviously leaving out Blade Runner. What's
his best movie?
Speaker 2: That's a good question, I think, I uh, I don't
think about that in a minute.
Speaker 1: My like, I guess guilty pleasure movie is The Nighthawks.
Speaker 2: The Nighthawks is actually a pretty good movie, man Like.
I mean it's corny, but it's it's uh like like
it's actually a pretty intelligent scripts and I think, uh,
what's uh yeah, I don't think about it, man like,
has been in a lot of weird stuff. Like then
there's like this one like movie that Dave Story show
on Cinemax where he's like this blind samurai. I mean
that that movie is really fucking stupid, but it's just
like yeah, yeah, and he how was that It's called
Blind Fury. Yeah, and then yeah, I'd have to I'd
have to think about I actually like a guilty pleasure
of mine is Split Seconds, which seeking a movie is
don't any sense? Like Rutger Howard, he's a he's like
this mercenary, Like he's like this p MC type in
London and in London the future it's like flooded and
there's like this there's like this serial killer like alien
that's like ripping people's hearts out, and it's not clear
if it's like like the movie doesn't make any sense,
but uh, it's got it's you know, it's got like that.
Uh it's got like that Predator to kind of aesthetic
where there's like just like tons of guns and just
like insanity like my my rout Grower guilty Pledgers. Split second.
Speaker 1: Remember he did that movie Fatherland too.
Speaker 2: Fatherland's actually dope. Like obviously like the uh, the the
Holocaust trope I is is kind of like the the
plot device is laying. But but that film's optics are
great and the uh administratively, the way like the Third
Rights organizing makes perfect sense. And that's why I like,
you know, he's he's a he's a creepo investigator, you know,
criminal politics, but he's uh he's got algamite SS rank
because like they're under the number of the s D
and like I and like when they're on the I
I find that very very cool man. Like, uh, you know,
he came out when I was in high school or
like just out of high school. I think it was
released in ninety four on HBO, And like I'd read
the book when it came out, and.
Speaker 1: He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker 2: Right, He's done a bunch of weird stuff, man, Like
I said, it's the bloody heroes I saw in the theear.
It's uh, it's got Vincent's and off Rio and and
Hugh keys Burn And that's like that's like a nuclear war.
These gladiers they go found of talent playing this game.
That's like it's like pigskin football. But he's a dog
skull and you can like you know, you like gore
people with chains and stuff. Yeah. He he's uh, he's
a guy who definitely was not afraid to take like
take unusual scripts. Man.
Speaker 1: In the same year in ninety four that he that
I think he did Fatherland. He did that movie with
Iced Tea Surviving the Game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's that's when like they made up
they made a million one movies that were based on
like The Most Dangerous Game. There's like a Van Damn
movie that is the exact same plot where uh where
like these these these these guys like are hunting Van dam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, all right, let's get out of here. What
do what do you got to plug? Oh?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 1: Uh great episode introductory episode for season two.
Speaker 2: No, thank you man. Yeah, Like I said, I'm I'm
pleased my workflow is actually getting moving. And again I
apologize man for shit being so I mean not just
to you, to like all the fricking sobs and everybody
watching this. This winner has been like hard on me man,
Like I'm not trying to play murder. I'm saying that's
why I like my workflow has been fubar. But you
can always find the kind of like one to stop
spot for my work product and my content is Thomas
seven seven seven dot com is number seven h O
A S seven seven seven dot com. You can find
me on X capital R E A L underscore number
seven h m A S seven seven seven and of
course substicks where the pot is and where my longer
form stuff is. And I'm gonna drop some I'm gonna
drop uh some stuff on there this week. People will
be intrigued by you. It's a real Thomas seven seven
seven substanct dot com. I am gonna populate my YouTube
channel with some video content. Well, like I said, man,
I've been this this winner has like been fucking really hard,
but I I am on the man. I'm gonna start
shooting in earnest in the next couple of weeks video content.
Speaker 1: I mean awesome, man, Thank you very much. Yeah, I
want to welcome everyone back to the Pekana Show. I'm
here with Thomas and Arthur. Gentlemen, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2: I'm well, man, thanks for thanks for hosting us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm great, Pete, thanks having me on.
Speaker 1: Cool. So you guys went down to the d n C.
I saw you posted a lot of a lot of
video from it and uh, pictures and stuff like that,
and you'll live to tell the tale. So who wants
to start a out? You know what they what they noticed?
What what you got out of it? And I sound
like like you went to to camp or something like that.
You know what you what you guys get out of it?
Was it a good experience for the both of you?
But yeah, either one of you just start talking.
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of a clown. Every day is kind
of like the fucking circus of my life, man, Like
you know, like the I'm I'm probly okay with it.
The big thing I noticed and uh, I'm gonna give
you over to time in a minute. I won't talk long.
I mean the point of people that, uh there was
basically like no presence of hair supporters on the ground,
and people who are obviously like Harris Shills started like
mobbing some of my platforms, like oh well at a convention,
that's not what happens. I'm like no, no, no, no,
no no no. Like in Chicago, which unfortunately is like
ground zero for for for like DNC support, it just
is okay, you get bodies in the street when something
like this happens. And like missus Clinton, who was like
a dud of a candidate, including here, Like I mean
she had like a fucking presence on the ground, okay, Like, uh,
that's so like when the DNC is literally being held here,
Like people telling me like, oh that doesn't mean anything
that missus Harris's people run on the ground. That's fucking retarded. Okay,
that's not how it works. And secondly, it's like everybody
else was there. You had these like goofy like commedies,
like guys who actually claim to be communists. I mean,
it's something that goes on here. You had a bunch
of like Zionists, like like Jew counter protesters there. You know,
you had uh, you had these kind of crazy like
social justice types who weren't really I mean they seem
kind of like this kind of stuff they were saying
and like the kind of lit they were handing out,
like it didn't really make any sense. It was like,
you know, we're like LGBTQ people who like opposed is
really genocide. I'm like, man, I'm like Palestinians hate you
fucking people, you know, like they It's like you're not.
It's like if you you know, it's like I'm not
gonna like tell you not to if you want to,
like if you want to be down on Israel and
critique the sort of structure that sustains it, but it's
like you don't. It's like they thing that like Palestine
is like full of like black people and these rails
are like mean cops or something. It's they don't really understand.
But as Tom will tell you, and like if they
were here, like the other guys and girls who were
with us, I saw all of like two hair supporters,
Like one time I was walking to McDonald's cause they
needed like across the streets Union Park I needed to
take a week and I needed a bottle of water.
I got to be crude, but that's what it was.
There was like this obviously like lesbian couple, and they
tried to hand me like a Harris flyer and I'm like, nah,
I'm good. And then, uh, when we were coming out
of the Billy Go Tevern where we went to kind
of cool off adjacent Union Park, this like black lady
who looked all like really down and out and like
a wheelchair, she just like handed us like a flyer.
And I didn't even look at it until like a
minute later. It was like, my hair is fucking That
was literally the only presence like Harris's people out on
the ground. I'm not I'm not making that up. If
they were like mob deep, I would say that, yeah,
that's what's Han talk and give his kind of impressions.
He's the one who's talking that video and footage.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, you know I went down because uh,
well obviously I believe I could say I'm a nationalist,
you know, far writer. I've been a fan of Thomas
for a while and and every time he posted a
meet up, I think for the past year or so,
I've been to it, and he posted one to go
to the d n C. I was like, that sounds interesting.
So I traveled out there, and I had some uh
I had bought. Coincidentally, I had bought some extra filmmaking equipment,
you know, like a tripod, like a selfie stick that
acts as a sort of like steady cam, a microphone,
and a few other things, and I was like, oh, well,
while I'm down there, I can help you take footage
and pictures and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, you know, prior to going, i'd remembered in detail
the riots that had proceeded from twenty fourteen onwards. Really,
but you know, I remember Portland and the Battle of
Berkeley and all those other things, the actual riots. I'm
from around New York City. I remember the riots down there,
and I was really prepared for action. It's like, even
if there aren't that many Democrats and Harror supporters out there,
I'm sure the Soros and Tifa types will be out.
I'm sure there'll be people who are just there to
you know, watch the world burn essentially. So it was
prepped for action. But as I got down there there,
there really wasn't much going on there. Are people there.
As Thomas said, there's a big march. The first day
we were there and we watched the march past. I
think they had marched from the Union Center, but as
soon as they got into the park they started doing
all these speeches on the Philippines and you know, queer
rights and all these other things that just didn't make
any sense. There were tons of different groups there. Everybody's
message muddled. And one of the guys we were with,
friend of ours, him and I if she walked around
the Union Center. We were just looking for this place
to meet up with a few people, and that place
was locked down. That they were like concrete jersey barriers
their fences. There were all these I took. I took
a quite funny picture that said d n C enter here,
and then right next to it it says do not enter.
But even all the DNC participants we passed, I threw
up the hanging loose signed to everybody that passed, just
to see what they do. I think I got like
two returns. One of our friend tried to high five
a bunch of them. I think he got like one
high five back. Even when you were kind of screwing around,
just you know, saying kind of wacky stuff just to
get a response, and everybody there wasn't even any anger.
There was nothing. They just kind of it was just like.
Speaker 2: Joyless apathy, man, like it like the uh, you know,
everybody's everybody asks again Tifa is like or like these
bad dudes or like they were it's like nineteen ninety two,
like when you had you know, when they were drawing
like gang bangers and stuff to like beef up their
their depth and stuff, and we're like stomping people out
at shows like it. These guys are complete fucking pussies, man,
and it's like totally fake and like none of that,
none of them even fucking showed up. I didn't see
one dude. Like people don't even talk shit to us
when we were like flying like swastikas and shit, like
it's you know, like there was some there was like
some languid fucking get out of here, fuck you your nasties,
but like nobody like nobody was doing anything, you know
what I mean. There was Yeah, there was like there
was a Palestinian guys or like Masm guys who were
like in BDUs with like Hezebla like badges who are
like kind of meant mugging people and like look pretty serious.
But I mean they were basically there because it's there's
like this prayer vigil like females, and I mean like
they were there basically you just to like be seen
and like keep people off of like their people. But
like there was no I I was getting a hit
with like all these messages on you know, like social
media and stuff like oh you're gonna get all you're
ass kicked. I'm like, dude, I look at chicag. I'm
not afraid of like fucking in TIFA. Like that's not
like this scary thing to us. When his motherfuckers showed
up too, Like when BLM showed up, like people fucking
literally like through shots at them, you know, like like
because because it's like you're not gonna invader a hood.
You know, like that's not happening.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So this idea that like oh, well black people and
like Hispanics just love BLM, it's like nobody's into it. Shit, man,
It's it's got like I remember my buddy, our friend
who was with us, you know the place, like you know,
BLMS like entire endowment like disappeared and like nobody even
knows where it went. Like this isn't like a real organization,
and like one of them ladies that they put out
fraud is like the director of BLM, just some my
career NGO person who's like like, there's nothing organic about
this at all, And there's nothing organic about Antifa. Like
those guys who those guys who who were in the
house dropped, like one of them was some dude on
bond for like molesting kids. Like the other guy he
was something like a homeless dude, and the last like
the last real like record of doing anything he got
picked up or like beating his wife or something. It
was like it's like homeless dudes, and like Kiddy Touchers,
they're just like showing up in Kenosha, like get the
fuck out of.
Speaker 1: Here that there's a joke.
Speaker 3: He could fire three bullets into a leftist crowd, hit
two pedophiles and a domestic abuser.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're all like, I mean it's obvious too.
It's like it's like when uh, it's like Kevin mc
it's the same thing as like Kevin McDonald pointed out
in like twenty eleven when like the Nash socialist movement,
like guys nobody'd ever met, nobody ever heard of. There's
something who's like showing up everywhere with like a news crew,
and it's like this is the far right, it's resurgence
and Kenvick Donald's like who are these guys? These guys
are just like independently wealthy guys who can fly all
over the country without going to work, and like they
they just like to dress up in Nazi uniforms, like
that's their thing. Are they all millionaires? You know? It's
like yeah, it's like where are these guys coming from?
Just like random guys or just like going to Kenosha,
Like why would you go to Kenosha? Like you know,
like that makes no sense.
Speaker 3: Funny thing about about the DNS, about the d NC
protests as well, is that sure every everybody had seen
they got pretty popular. Zorin Sultanas shout out to him.
He was the guy he had He was the one
who actually was carrying the reights flag running around with it.
But he was also the dude with the heads full
of flag outside of the DNC entrance away. But that
the whole crew that was there, the thugshakers, It was
like all themselves, but like the the Nazi with fascism girl.
I think that the check with purple hair who just
had like the you know signs with all the racial
slurs on them. Uh. The dude he dressed up like
a Stalfo, the anime character with the nosbole flag, like
all those kind of guys. They actually met up with
those guys and on the last day we were there,
they had kind of as a protester gathering, like a
bunch of us, myself included. Uh, I just started like
going to the middle of the protests, like, you know,
just saying wild stuff. I think even like I think
Thomas posted one of the videos, like the dude dressed
up like the anime character is like yeah, Kamala Harris,
I want you to molest me, and just kind of
wild stuff. But like nobody even tried to attack us
or stop us at all. Like when we started doing that,
what happened is everybody bought their cameras out and they
started recording, and then then they didn't even try to
and then to try to stop us, put her hands
of us, and they didn't even shout us down.
Speaker 2: It's one of the lady. I don't know if you
were there, like our other friend was there. It's like
obviously like Jewish lady. And she introduced herself. I'm not
gonna like say her name, but I mean she had
like an obviously like like ethnic surname. And I'm not
just like being a dick, like, oh, she loved Jewish.
Speaker 3: Interviewed you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she seemed to think like flicans or something,
and she's like are you proud to be an American?
And I'm like why would have you try to be
an American? And I'm like I got like white pride
all day, you know, I like I'm proud of some
other things in my life. But you know, and she's
like she seemed like shocked, and I'm like, yeah, I'm
like I like you're going to vote for I'm like
the first Ti'm I gonna make the fella. And I
can't really vote nationally, you know, like I voute local
way to keep like, you know, because there's a lot
of machine type judges who've got to be kept off
the bench. But it's it's like I was like speaking
Chinese or something. You know, It's like what do you
want me to say? Like go through up like you know,
I love gd bits like missus Harris was a Marxist,
Like what what did she think I was gonna say?
Speaker 1: And I think I was.
Speaker 2: I was like a British free course shirt and like
some crazy fucking pants. You know, it's not it's like okay,
I mean it's like you look at me and make
me feel like a Republican. It's like a yeah. It
was just weird.
Speaker 3: And the whole thing was there was also that like
hood black dude that's with like a grill in and
he had like chains and stuff, just came up and
started an interview, and.
Speaker 2: That of random too. Yeah yeah, hood dude. He's like, yeah,
can I interview you guys? And we're like yeah, Like
his his question seemed kind of more like just like
a run of the mill, like like journalism student questions
and stuff like that. One lady she's like trying to
get me to like say some crazy stuff like you know,
I think niggers and mister Trump is great or so,
like I don't know what she was going for.
Speaker 3: Like the protests themselves, because that's really where we were at,
got like super muddled. Obviously, we had the you know
you'd have like every stripe of leftist, Like our friend
who's familiar with those groups, are joking that, like, we're
not the Revolutionary com of America with a revolutionary American Communists,
but like we have an interview to guy, I think
a couple of people with like groups, and they just
gave us this kind of boilerplate Trotzky and stuff. But
like the last day we were there, there was like
a couple of people who came out who were like,
it's like America first, there's the American Nationalists and they
were just like, yeah, we don't support Palestine or Israel,
and we're here for American patriotism and.
Speaker 2: Just they were just yeah, I thought, I thought those
guys were like they were they were like trying to
get smoke from the crowd. Thought I thought, those guys
are gonna get the rasses kick. I remember one black
guy who was with them, like my one friend that
my friend who was with us, He's like, you think
that guys like stolen val and I'm looking at him.
He was probably a little younger than me, but he
had he had like an eighty second Airborne bad John.
Then he had like a bunch of shit that like
didn't make sense, like I think he had like jump
wings on, which made sense. Then he had like he
had like the fourth recon like fucking like Scooba mask
or something, and then like a bunch of other ship
and uh, I'm like I don't know, but he was
like he was like Tawnic a bunch of the people
and like the crowd they gathered around him and the
like when they started like moving in, I'm like, Okay,
that guy's gonna get fucking stopped. He doesn't fucking stop
saying that dumb ship. But it was it was weird. Yeah. Yeah,
those guys just like Someddy show up like we live America.
It's like you're a fucking idiot. But yeah, it was
uh and it was like in Congress, it's like what
do you Yeah, it's not even like there was some
big mob, but like like Palestinians like marching and they're
like fuck you, we love America. Just got to know
these guys suddenly like show up and uh it's like
the you know, it's like who exactly were dressing here? Man?
It's like you, I mean, it's not exactly receptive. Uh
a receptive mob that was on. Like the whole thing
was like weird. Man. It was like it was just
like weird, you know, like what it wasn't what I
thought it would either be. I thought that it would
either be like d NC people and these uh like
bee on An Antifa types got busted in like mod Deep,
or I thought there'd be like nobody there. Like what
there was was like I didn't expect it and it
was really weird.
Speaker 1: So besides the the people who are obviously invited to
the convention, they who are you know, they're they're there,
They're going to be there no matter what. There's no
grassroots whatsoever. There's no one there. There's no fans of
Kamala Harris, there's no fans of Joe Biden. There's no
fans of the regime. Whereas you know, at the at
the convention, even in in Wisconsin, even if you or
was it Minnesota, I can't remember where the hell the
RNC one was. The Yeah, you would have had people
outside who couldn't get in because you know, they're not invited,
but they would be there to support Trump or there
would be protesters there.
Speaker 2: Well, I've tried to explain to people, especially these guys,
and look, man, I'm not I'm very much a dissident. Man.
I'm not saying that pretend like I'm tough for like
or anything like that. It's just like a fact they
don't like engage with this stuff. I don't index with.
But Kamala Harris is literally this like random lady, like
you can't. The way campaigning works, you basically got to
hustle twenty four to seven. It's like we got to
be your full time job with no breaks on Saturdays
and Sundays, and you gotta do it for years. Some
of this harror is basically being this like people like, oh,
but she was a senator. There they're there, there's there's
fifty fucking senators. Okay, like you've got to. You've got to.
You've got a campaign like coast to coast and barnstorm.
You should have been doing this for two years. Okay.
First of all, it's not possible. You can be invisible,
an invisible vice president like she was, and then replace
the actual nominee months in and then suddenly be like
pulling you know, uh, like over fifty percent. And today
it's that like back Trump in twenty sixteen, Like that
doesn't happen. That's not possible. You know now branded I
mean the point before my Twitter got exploded and nine's sixty,
Kennedy was drawing these like mass crowds, Like the dude
was like Mick Jagger, like like not to be crude.
Like women would literally get like excited and like a
porniye over him. You know, people like like girls to
be streaming. You'd have like all these like everybody from
like old people to like these like tough Irish guys
to like little kids were like, yeah, we love Kennedy,
and like Nixon had show up somewhere and they'd be
basically like nobody there, Sonny. The Kennedy's campaign is like this,
this guy shit Nixon isn't nobody, like, don't even worry
about it. But then come like election day, it's like
a dead heat, okay, and that's why people an advanced
like Kennedy fixed Chicago, which he probably did. But my
point is that it's like, okay, fine, you can't always
tell by like bodies in the street, but I'm telling
you and missus Harris is like this like super candidate
without campaigning is like drawing like all this fucking support
and like black people think she's just great. You would
have had a lot of fucking people on the ground
in Chicago. If nowhere else, you would have had a
lot of people on the ground here, I guarantee you.
Speaker 3: Well, even like a more recent example, your flashback, I think,
especially the twenty sixteen even like Bernie Sanders had a
lot of on the ground support from kind of a
wide range of the occupied type people.
Speaker 2: Because Clinton was a terrible candidate, but you still had
like the diehards like showing up at her campaign stops,
you know, and the d n C. You know, like
it's it was like like her old campaign was like
media fakery, but she did have some actual like people
on the ground to show up to backer.
Speaker 1: You know. Obama, Obama too, Like the two thousand and
eight inauguration, like the most attended inauguration of all time.
Well why because Washington, d C is overwhelmingly black, and
everyone showed. They all came out and there was even
though he was even though he was a candidate that
was set up to be in that spot, he legitimately
had grassroots support.
Speaker 2: It's also Obama like fake is a sentence. He was
that dude was campaigning basically for four years, you know,
like it h he started campaigning, like the moment he
ran against Bobby rush here and got beat, then he's like, okay,
I gotta change my whole program. And he basically, yeah,
he had advantages because like CNNMSNBC, you know back then,
like legacy media, radio, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, two thousand and four convention, Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they they plug the shit out of him. But
he also was campaigning NonStop for four years. Okay, like
missus Harris, she can just like like like basically like
one hundred and twenty days out like from the election,
she can just like declare herself a candidate, not campaign
and she's like just like dominating the polls. That's not possible,
that's not how it works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we saw in real time that happened. We
were saying, you know, we screwed a little bit with
the d n C attendees, but we're really what we
were trying to do is just to see how they react.
And there was just all these low energy people, people
just kind of you know, we didn't get any violent reactions,
we didn't get any confrontations. We didn't even get anyone
trying to like joke along with us or anything. Everybody
just sort of looked away. It's like our friends said.
When he was at the RNC, the you know, you
got some of the I guess like lunar religious, more
fringe people there, and the Republicans are going up to
them and talking to them and being friendly with them,
and then the the DNC to Democratic Party, all those
people hate their own guys.
Speaker 2: It's just so weird. It's very like corporate. I mean,
it's like our friend who like he actually like was
able to procure a press pass so he like penetrated.
He went into like the DNC at United Center. He
was like inside like pretending to be like a reporter
a delegate. And he said that like when he talked
to people, like he talked to some of his his
hair as as people, and he said they were just
giving him these like weird, like canned answers, like this
is Harri's answer for this, you know, it'say. It was,
it was like totally like weird. And he's like a
dude who's been like like Tom just said, you know,
he's a dude who's been around these types of people
a lot. You know, he was at the RNC like
he he's used to being around like Capitol Hill people.
You know, it's like they these people apparently, these people
apparently in the United Center, like I said, they were
just they were giving these kind of like canned answers
that there's kind of like no margin for I don't
even know, like conversation or something. But he said it
was very strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then there were no young people there as well.
It was all you know, older, older millennials and older
there there were no you know, even with Hillary you
had sort of the college sorority sort of backing for
we didn't. We didn't see any of that. And kind
of another notable I guess absence from there. I didn't
really see a lot of a lot of Trumpers.
Speaker 1: I think of the last day.
Speaker 3: There were some people at the protests with kind of
pro Israel, pro Zionists, maybe more conservative stuff. We didn't
see them. We didn't see really any groupers. There was
that one, like I said, America first guy who was
a little bit goofy. But but like as I had
mentioned earlier, those big protests in Portland and California and
everything else, the kind of the main counter for us
that was there were they you know, they weren't hard
and fast nationalists or or all writers or anything like that.
Though they were like conservative type dudes and kind of
you know whatever you think about like the Proud Boys
or something like that.
Speaker 2: I mean those gy Chicago is a really weird place
and like all all kinds of ways, like you basically
you basically don't have like I mean, you've got like
you've got like cops and you got like white dudes
from the hoods like the Clearing and like uh at
Bridgeport and like Beverly and like they they like Donald Trump,
but like they're not like super mega guys and like
they know that like this isn't a battleground state anyways.
They're kind of like whatever. Like you're more likely to
actually find like a hardline like kind of like pro
white guys here than you would like Republicans. It's like
this don't really exist here, Like and I try to
explain that to people, like you're more you're like walking
like a bar or something in like a white hood
and uh, you say on the bar and like I
started telling any more jokes, like guys would probably laugh
and that be okay with that, but like they would
they're not guys who like are into the Republican Party
or like anything like that. It's like a weird culture.
That's part of it. Part why it didn't see like
pro Trump stuff. It was a stick and speaking with
absence of any like hair stuff even like uh, but
they were like totally foo bar like, like I shouted
out on social media, like they delegates having to wait
like two and three hours to get into the United Center.
It's like, what the fuck's wrong with you? This is
this is a this venue is like it's literally a
venue made for this sort of thing. You know, you
can't you're not organized enough to like get people do
security in short of than like three hours, like you know.
And then they apparently much a media people were mad
because you know, they divided it between McCormick Place and
the United Center. But that actually I guaranee they did
that for like security purposes and to prevent like mob
to beat like protesters, But that also meant that like
nobody knew like where the people were they wanted to
talk to, and like a bunch of people got like
fucked up informations. They like went to McCormick Place United
Center when they were supposed to be the other place,
like the whole thing seemed like a big It seemed
like amateur hour, you know, like our buddies said. He's
like this is pretty damning, and I'm like, yeah, I
think so. You know, like if if I guarantee you
if there was like some Trump rally or they rn
T Milwaukee and it was like you had to wait
three hours, like they'd be like oh in the media
like look at these fucking idiots, and they'd be right frankly.
But that's another point, man. I mean, like I said,
you're like say whatever they want. You know, basically the
entire country is like is like red territory in terms
of the political map, you know, and like Trump does
these like rallies all the time. You might think those
rallies are stupid or like hokey, but the point is
if you want to see Donald Trump, you can see
him like basically anywhere in the country. Like how to
fuck even like go see missus Harris. I guess you
like wait, wait for three hours outside of the United
Center and you can. But like that's it. I mean,
it's like you can't, you know, I you can't like
telling me that like some court to some kind of
campaign is being made out of this of a legitimate sort.
You know, you've got to really hustle to get people
to go to the polls. You know, there's all this
kind of evidence there aren't elections anymore, you know, because
like they they don't care because why would they, because
we're not gonna hold an election. So you know, all
that matters, is all that matters, this perception of maybe
like you know, a third in the country who's like
actually like you know, capable and engage enough to to
do something. You know, if if they decide they're they're
not gonna they're not gonna, you know, recognize the sovereignty
of the state anymore. You know. It's like but if
all you gotta do basically is like sell, it is
like good enough, like you know, and plan some kind
of doubt in people's minds, like you know, maybe missus
Harris carried this election. That's what they did to California. Man,
that's what I was shouting out. You didn't California didn't
like one day go from being like the Republican heartland
to like, oh now it's now it's a permanently saved
blue state because of Mexicans. That's not how things work.
You know, it's just not that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Well, you know. One of the other things I'm sorry.
One of the other things about you know, Harris is
like they have this interview that's coming up where she's
not going to be interviewed alone, and you know, the
the the gay dad Vice President Hopeful is going to
be with her, you know, so that basically he can
interrupt when she can't answer a question. I mean, there's
no you know, and we talk about this all the time.
There's no policy there. We I was talking to a
friend of mine today and he was saying how he
one of his like like he has a cousin's who's
a lesbian and her lesbian or like, oh, we're voting
for Kamala And he's like, well, why what does she
stand for that you're voting? You know what policies?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, no, you know, I'll feel safer
being gay and having It's like, that's not a policy.
Speaker 2: What do you know?
Speaker 1: What does she stand for?
Speaker 2: What's also I tried to point out to people and
they don't believe me, but I'm like, look, they're like no,
this is the Obama's like runting to run this ethnic lady.
So they sent up Joe Biden for filer. I'm like,
that's not what happened, man, Like, basically Biden was so
fucked up, like he couldn't carry it. And when they
finally realized that, they're like fucky. I guarantee they went
to somebody like Gavin Knew someone They're like, you're gonna run.
He's like nope, I'm not doing it. So who they got? Yea,
who they got?
Speaker 3: I mean, I recalled during the Tony twenty election when
Kamala Harris put up her actual presidential ticket, she was
basically laughed off stage. I thought it was weird at
the time, and I really don't know deep Washington politics
or anything like that. I thought it was weird. She
was a weird pick for vice president.
Speaker 2: But no, the whole thing is strange, like her all
sentency is strange. But I guarantee you this wasn't something
like machiavellian operation by the Obama is to like humiliate
Joe Biden and run this like random lady who can't
complete an interview without looking like a moron. That's not
there was. This was this is them, Like that's like
saying that like, you know, the Soviet Union made cheer,
it ain't go look crazy, so then they could put
gorbache off in there. It's it's like some things are
with the appear man and I guarantee you I guarantee
you man. Like the guys like the like the money
guys who like fund all this ship, they were beside
themselves that like they could not get somebody other than
Missus Harris to fucking take up the slag. Okay, like
it doesn't matter because they're gonna fix it anyway, but
they're like, I guarantee that, like looking at this ship,
like this is fucking ridiculous, you know, like, yeah, it's
a it's a problem. You know.
Speaker 3: It's I think part of the reason that the things
were so low energy in that uh, miss Harris didn't
have any on the grounds a part of it because
they don't. They won't, they don't want to draw attention
to her. I think, like the best thing band is
try and forth through like a couple, you know, to
terrible pop culture. Tek took means. I mean, some people
think even in our sphere, have made that out to
be a lot more than it is. They were like
what they were banking on and what you could kind
of get for Joe Biden. And I heard people talk
about this both, you know, in the media and and
in real life. It's that Joe Biden kind of represents
return to normalcy, as stupid as that is. But uh,
you know what, what if Kamala Harris doesn't represent anything
and Tim Waltz doesn't represent anything. I looked into him
a little bit, just like you.
Speaker 2: Man, like he I mean, honestly, like Vance was a
bad pick for Trump. I know that makes people mags.
They like Dvance is They're like fantasy boyfriend despite the
fact he's terrible. But I got Trump like like Vance
is Teal's guy, like literally like like like uh he
had Teal at or like thick as thieves, like Teal
gave him a job like it's no work job with
one of his fucking hedge funds like that, Like Heal
is basically Heal is the Vance, like Carl Icon at
the Trump. He's like it's like surrogate dead. So Til
says that Trump, You're gonna take this guy as your
fucking running mate. You know, That's that's just how it is.
So I mean, Trump had no choice, Okay, Kamala's people
did have a choice, but they're so goofy. They think
that like Walls is like some guy, like yeah, see,
like white people like him because he's a white guy.
Like they don't get that, like there's real problems here
and like Minnesota weird. They were weird political culture, man,
And like even if even if Walls had like more
charisma and wasn't just like this kind of cringe, you know,
like old guy. You know, it's not the stuff that
indexes with them is not gonna index like the rest
of the country, you know, So it's like they don't.
That's kind of like they're desperate attempt to be like no,
see this is actually a normal ticket. But yeah, you're
absolutely right. They don't want to draw attention to him
as its Harris, And like the entirety of like the campaign,
it's just like whether I want to or not, I
get it, Like this fucking uh cricket wireless. I love
it because it's like so cheap. But like I get
these like aggregate news alerts on my phone whether I
want them or not, Like I don't I see an
MSNBC's like not a single thing about this is who
Kamala Harris is this is like a bagwards like Donald
Trump said this, Donald Trump heats better. Donald Trump is
doing this like you never get any kind of cap
about like oh, Kamala Harris like work for the blind kids,
or she's like really smart, her husband's like a great guy.
It's like nothing, nothing, you know, it's not it's not
a campaign like even in even it kind of like
the lame like post COVID suns or post lockdown sense.
Speaker 3: You know, well, the I think part of the reason
that they're having so much trouble, as well as the
the Democratic Party and the mainstream left really went all
in on the woke stuff, if you want to term
it that, and anybody even if they were to run
like a Tulci Gaward or an RFK Junior or even
a Bernie Sanders, he's not a good choice at this
point either, but you know, he still has some appeal
to people if you if you run someone like that,
they're they're inherently too white, they're inherently too conservative just
by the fact that they're not out and out freaks.
You could run a Kamala Harris or Tim Walls because
they really don't believe anything. You can kind of paint
over them whenever you want. Exactly if you're feel like
a homosexual or a you know, some urbanite woman that
loves abortion, you'd Kamala Harris as your candidate because you
can just project that onto her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like a tabloa rosso. Well it's alsome.
I mean I make the point all the time. You know,
after Republicans after November nine, nineteen eighty nine, they had
nothing because after after Taft got and the America First
Wing like for all practical purposes like rendered like illegal,
Like all the Republicans had was they were like they
were like the cold War hawk party. Yeah, they were
a cold War hawk party, and they were the party
basically like the supply sires. Well when supply side or
stuff became like the norm you know under Reagan and
like a Cold War ended, like Republicans don't have anything
like at all. They just don't have a platform, I
think at that point, because like people insist it like
I'm just like misreading this, and there actually is like
a mainstream right. I mean there's not the it's not
like a mainstream left either. You know, It's like you
got like they're, uh, you know, they've got they've got
like what was like the counter majoritarian grievance ideology. But
you need like more than that, you know, like you
need like the Democrats actually like they you need like
an industrial like laboring class to like have a labor party.
Like that's why Ridiculo is like the British Colored Party
like labor, Like why why is it labor like that?
Because what said is having like the monarchist party, you know,
so your Democrats as like the American like Party of Labor.
It's like, well, like what are you guys? You know, like, oh,
we're we're the party of of like oppressed black people
and LGBTQ. Okay, fine, you can't build a mandate out
of that. You're talking about like fifteen percent of the
national population, you know what I mean? Like what that
that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting is with the with all the manufacturing
getting shipped overseas, I mean, it basically destroyed labor labor
unions in this country. And labor unions used to be
huge in the in the elections, and it's it really
seems now without that labor I mean, and that was
for decades and decades it was about labor uni instead
appealing to labor unions, and now it seems like when
you you have to replace that with something like the woke,
or you have to replace it with some kind of
some kind of ideology that takes its place where the
people you can gather people too and organize people too,
and nothing is going to work as well as organized
labor would.
Speaker 2: What's also the entire I mean, the entire paradigm is
like obsolescent. You know, it's not just that, like, yeah,
you're absolutely right, it's not just that, like the it's
not not like the establishment, like the establishment duopoly parties
you know, have like no reason of debtrin anymore. Like
the state is structured. I mean it's basically structured to
fight the Cold War and not do much else. You know.
It's like they make a big deal, like the big
news story. You know, like the US Navy has like
a stabbering like fourteen aircraft carriers and they were like
on the they ran MSNBC and ran the story that
went like semi viral among like mainstream like Republican goofballs,
but like, oh, the Navy can't meet its recruiting goals
to like staff like all of its uh you know,
all of its ships. And it's like why do these
ships exist? Like you're gonna you're gonna fight the imaginary
Soviet Union. You're gonna have you're gonna fight some like
imaginary surface warfare engagement against the Chinese navy that doesn't
actually exist. You know. It's like people like, oh, don't
don't don't you support the military. I'm like to do what,
you know, like this idea that like you need, like
this idea that you need like a million people in uniform.
You know, you need like aircraft carriers in every ocean.
That's that's not normal, Like that's you know, like the
forty four years in the Cold War, Like yeah, you
need like a force structure that emphasises readiness and depth.
This idea that that's just something you need always Like
that's that's bizarre, you know, and like uh yeah, and
I mean this is one example. But like the idea
that the government has structured just like must keep existing.
You know, it's like one of these I mean, Federal
Law enforcem had nothing to do after the Cold War.
You know, the FBI's main job. It's not to like
it's not to shake down like Italian guys, like pushing
heroin in some like shithole like Brooklyn Italian ghetto. Like
his job is kept a counterintelligence and to suss out
the KGB Jerior's presence in the United States. It's that's
like arrest guys for like shaking down tramp houses and
like terrorized outfit guys. But I mean that's what it
does now, I mean, like that's you know, like why
yeah you really like yeah, go ahead, well, and like.
Speaker 3: In their regard, I'm in American foreign policies collapsing all
over the war in Ukraine and the Israeli Gaza massacre,
and even going back to the war in Afghanistan, this
kind of the war in Syria, the migration crisis. Having
all these countries collapse within our sphere of influence in
South America and all over the place, clearly know he's
nobody's buying with the United States, is selling anymore. And
you don't have the Soviet Union to point out and say, look,
you can you can side with us, you can side
with them. Plenty of people and the bricks and everyone
else has proved this. Plenty of people view the Russians
into Chinese as a much better option, and then they're
correct to you.
Speaker 2: Well they also people don't understand that point. I talked
to my dad about this. You know, a place like
Russia and China, Like if you're America, still, even if
it's kind of a post I'm getting lege. Economically, Americans
are still like ridiculously rich, like compared to everybody else
on this planet. Like even like poor people, you can
get like a link card, and you can get like
you can get like a credit card, like a five
thousand dollars limit. You mays just like pull free money
out of the air. Or even if you're a bum, okay,
like Russia and China, they actually like bad as some
things might be there. Those people live better than like
ninety percent of this planet. So if you're some guy
in Africa or some guy in Venezuela or some guy,
uh you know in like Laos, you look at like
China like that's that's like that's like the Emerald City
in oz or something. You look at like Russia like,
hey man, Russia is like a world power, Like that's
you know, they got technology and they got like all
this stuff. You know, like you think that that's like
insanely insane fucking wealth and plenty, you know, like it's
not people are really really provincial here. They think like
everywhere is like Chicago or La or like New York City.
It's not at all like that. And and like you're
the majority of this planet. I think, what's what's the
statistic like something like I think like six hundred million
people like live on like three dollars a day, and
there's like a billion people that live on like a
dollar fifty a day. And that's like normal, I think
about that. So yeah, this idea that like this idea
that like, oh, it's crazy to think that you know,
these people in in in the underdeveloped world, they're kind
of the permanently well used to be called the third world.
That they'd be like, oh, they they'd never want anything
to do with China rush. It's like what are you
talking about? And like a Chinese or like a Muscovite
like garment guy shows up in Africa. That that guy,
that guy's like a baller, you know, like p there's
the pet. The natives there look at that guy. Like
this guy is ridiculous. He's got like he's got a
brand new like fucking Tesla he's driving around in He's
got like endless money, you know, he's got like endless
fucking guns and Ammo. Like it's it's it's like crazy
to them, you know, like I don't know wy people
can't get their ain't around it.
Speaker 3: Plus, if you side with you, siding with Russia and China,
they're not going to try and socially engineer you out
of existence as I tried to do with the Taliban,
and the Afghanistan made their choice, and you know the.
Speaker 2: Two. I mean, you're absolutely right, But like my buddy,
I'm not gonna name it, but I told you that
dude he was like in the Marine Corps as he
was an infantry officer and then he went to Naval Intelligence.
He told me that in Afghanistan. He was in Afghanistan,
he was an Africa. And he's like, they're literally following
this like nineteen sixty three, like Cold War playbook, where
it's like we're going to train indigenous forces with our values.
I'm like to do what, Like are they fighting like
the imaginary Viet Cong or like the communists trying to
sway them to their side? What are you training these
people to do? It's Like, I totally get it if
you want only a forward deployment in Afghanistan, especially considering
what I think by mid century is going to be
like a real kind of hot content between the United States,
the Rusian Federation, China. You know, plays like Kazakhstan are
gonna be very significant in this kind of contest. So
I get it you want like a ford deployment in Afghanistan,
Like why are you training the Afghan National Army? That
makes literally no fucking sense. That's like militarily asamine, you know,
like you don't you don't train indigenous forces to fight
the communists and the absence of the communists, you know,
you just deploy there and you buy off if you
have to buy off in order to like make sure
things run smoothly, you do things like the British Empire did.
The British Empire didn't train indigenous forces against imaginary ops.
They said we're gonna be here. It's not like Cartel says.
There's like the Spanish like I don't, I don't know,
like adage or something. It's like you can either have
like it's like you can have my silver, you can
have my steel, you can take my money. Or I'm
gonna cut you to pieces if you won't cooperate. Like
that's basically how you handle like imperial foreign policy place
like Afghanistan. It's like we're gonna be here, We're gonna
deploy a relative depth. You can get rich from this
or you can't have a problem, you know, like why
why why are we training afgames? What are you training
them to do?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: It's when you were mentioned in this military, this Cold
War military. I remember back in like two thousand and
seven when Ron Paul was running and he was up
on the debate stage and he had made the comment
He's like, we need like six submarines. We need like
three submarines in the Atlantic, three submarines in the Pacific,
and we have our missile system. What else do we need?
That's it? At every Cold warrior was like screaming, you know,
screaming about how the Muslims were gonna come here and everything.
If what if we don't have fourteen aircraft.
Speaker 2: Carriers, I mean, like even if it's like what's like
Michael Schuyer said, like even if you accept obviously I
don't know, but even if you accept like the Islamic
world is some kind of like op It's like, okay, obviously,
the way you'd handle that is you'd basically like exclude
Islamic integration and then like close the southern border. Like
you wouldn't build like dozens of aircraft carriers and pretend
that you know we're we and and pretend that you
know we we need we need like the F twenty
two and the Joint Strike fight or otherwise like we're
gonna get worked by by some kind of Soviet aircraft
that runs it obsolete. Like I like, even if that
was true, it's like, okay, so why why you're praying
to basically wage like a combined arms conventional war, you know,
with these platforms that haven't been viable in decades. I mean,
I also think that go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: The Zionist narrative that would back up anything like that
other against the Russians, the Chinese, or the Islamic world,
I mean, that's collapsing in on itself in real time,
as we saw, like all those protests on the DNC,
the corrupt of them was the Israel Palestine issue. There
is no going outside and declaring yourself as this big,
you know, Zionist warrior for Israel and Christian America has
no sway now with anybody right, right, left or or center.
Speaker 2: No that and that that is a huge sea change, man,
because like when I was I realized, I I don't
want to I don't want to sound like some old
guy just say I'm like, you know, you should appreciate
what you have today, Like I mean, there is some
true to that, man, Like especially like when younger guys
like weren't alive then they're like, you know what you're
talking about. Shots, It's not like when you were young.
It's so bad now. I'm like, bro, people fucking people
hated us man at like thirty years ago, and the
only ninety if you're like a white dude is like, yeah,
I'm pro white. Like in Chicago, if you, like I said,
if you went to a place like Bridgeport of Beverly, yeah,
some guys would be like, okay, bro, I am too.
Like on the open street, people have like look at
you like you're a fucking scumbag and like you you
basically couldn't go to like seventy down of the city
because it's like you get stopped out and people would
accept it and like it's your fault, Like while you're
fucking around with within a non white hood, you're asking
for it. Like nobody would talk that way now, you know,
like even here, like nobody would talk that way.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like basically they expect like like basically if you're
like a white dude, it's like expected you at least
kind of like Donald Trump, and like you probably have
like right wing ideas of some sort and people that's
just like that's the way it is, you know. And
like basically you're looked at like a weirdo or like
corny if like you like Israel, like whether you're like
right or left, Like nobody likes Israel. Like thirty years ago,
people say like you're like a piece of shit, Like
how dar you say about Israel? They're like our only friends,
you know, like like nobody talks that way now, man,
like nobody, and if you do, you're viewed as like
some corny weirdo. You know. It's like so I want
to accept that, Like things are so bad now when
people used to be based like that's not remotely the
way shit is. Like it's it's literally like odds with reality,
you know, And like I say, like I I don't
plan to be like super worldly, but I'm mean I
do spend like half the year traveling around and like
I I basically spend my day like walking around a
metro area five million people. And I think I know something, man,
Like I don't, you know, it's it's it's it's like
night and day compared to thirty years ago today, you know.
And I'm mean saying too, like people like this like
election fakeries not something new. It goes back to nine
nineteen ninety two. Okay, that was probably the last time
there was like real, real like presidential election, you know,
and like like with people like voting and votes being
tallied and that outcome being honored, and you know, like
I said, like after that, it was just like horse
training as like what party and what what you know,
kind of aggregate interest. Get Okay, you get this state,
we get that state, you get this, we get that.
You know. I So it's not you can't convince me
that like things are terrible now when like they were
better like thirty years ago or even twenty years ago. Man,
I mean, like even I remember even here, we're like
people on the people here like hated Bush forty three,
like I think Busch twenty three was like a very
bad guy, but I don't know how like Norman's getting
like excitedly like angry with them. He was kind of
like a cipher. But even so, I remember, like it's
saying like the Iraq war is like really fucked up,
and people be like, hey, don't you say that? Man?
You know you remember like people spitting on troops coming
back from No, you don't criticize this when we're at war,
and like what are you talking about? You know, it's
like now we can't like say that, like this is
fucked up, Like but that's that's the way people were, man.
You know, don't you remember knowing the eleven motherfucker like that?
That's kinda still okay, like out and about I mean,
not like internet idiots.
Speaker 3: So that's that's another like today, yeah, that that sort
of like support the troops, you know, cult the nine
to eleven type stuff, and you know, Israel is based
because they fight the Commis, and and then Israel is
based because they fight the Muslims, and nobody believes that anymore.
It's been proven in real time that those A that
those ventures were not legitimate and b that they fail.
Ukraine is the best example. That's a you know, a
Zionist American imperialist war that that failed in real time,
and you can't even hide it anymore. You can't even
say that, uh, you know, you Ukraine's going to win.
And they're this like you know, for our guys, is
like based white country or kind of for the mainstream
that they're this you know, small nation that was unfairly attacked.
You can say, you know, all you can say now
is that, uh, you know, the the Ukrainians are foolish
and they made the wrong choice. And there there is
that other meme that Zelenski joins the Hall of American
Allies up in heaven. Did people see right through this stuff?
Speaker 2: Well it's also too I mean I make the point
to people and especially I mean guys were supposedly like
on our side, although like I questioned that a lot.
There's not like this isn't nineteen eighty. There's not like
it's not like two basic like forms of government that
dominate and then like a dozen kind of like minor
like iterations. There's only like one form of government, you know,
like despite what the say it says about like Russia,
like Russia is organized basically exactly like America is. It's
got like different political values obviously, but there's not there's
not like this mass diversity of like forms of government.
There's like one form of government and that's it. Okay,
Like globalism changed everything. The Cold War was that like
the war to decide like what form globalism would take it.
So like people talking about like well the left is
gonna win, It's like there's not like a left anymore.
There's not like a right anymore, like not in like
official them. I mean, that's not the way things work.
You know, like you're either like four in the regime
or you're against it. Like right wing people are against it, okay,
Like Russia is against it, China's against it, Daryl Islam
is against it. There's like outliers like Syria that yeah
they're part of Daryl Islam, but like they're control group
like like that, like as Christians and Alloyites. But I
mean the point is that like if you're like, well,
you're a dick because like you hate jd Vance because
otherwise the left wing wins. It's like there's not a
right and a left wing. It's not like that. I
think Trump's important for historical reasons and psychological symbolic ones.
But like even Trump, like he's not Trump's not this
like ideological guy. He was gonna like you know, and
if you don't vote for him, like you know, the
left wing wins and then everything changes. It's this is
not the eighties. That's not how it works. And I'm
not just I I'm not just like dropping bullshit or
like abstract like political theory knowledge and trying to make
it trying to beat people over the head with it.
I mean, it's it's obvious, that's in practical terms, this
is the way things are organized. So people got to
drop this idea that like, you know, this is the
West and these are sovereign countries and it's like the
right wing traditional party versus like the labor radical party
and we've got to stop them from winning votes or
that changes the paradigm. That's not at all, that's not
really true. That's thirty years that's that's that's thirty five
years out of date.
Speaker 1: But I gotta I got a roll, So I appreciate
the talk. Guys. Uh plugs yeah, Thomas plugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My Twitter got nuked, which is something that happens
to us. So that's why you can't find me on Twitter.
You can find me on substack real Thomas seven seven
seven on subsec dot com. You can find me at
my website number seven hm s seven seven seven dot com.
I'm on tram on Instagram. I'm gonna start doing more
like podcasting and more video stuff and try and fuck
with social media less frankly, like I need a break anyway,
But that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1: Arthur, you got anything to plug except what do you got?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actually I'm on Twitter and subsec as well. Actually,
if you subscribe to Thomas as subsec, I'm one of
his recommended journals. I don't have a lot on there
right now, but I'm working on so if you'll see
more stuff in the coming weeks and months, follow me
on Twitter as well. Arthur Underscore Rombau same way it's
spelled on screen three.
Speaker 1: That's me.
Speaker 3: Find me on YouTube again, Arthur Rombou. Like I said,
I don't have a ton at the moment, but I
definitely have more coming down the pipeline and you can.
Speaker 1: You can come hang out with Arthur in my in
my chat on my Sunday live.
Speaker 3: Streams and I'm usually there as well.
Speaker 1: All right, gentlemen, preciate it. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Thanks Pete.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peganana Show.
It's been a while, Thomas, how you been.
Speaker 2: I've been well man. Yeah, thanks for hosting me. I
was singing with that the other day, like it really
has been a minute, and that's my fault. I mean,
everybody's busy, but it was my poll for canceling on
our slated movie review episode, and I do apologize both
of you and the subs. But yeah, I've been well man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should jump on that this week. We'll talk
about it later. Well, we were gonna I was gonna
ask you to finish up Gladio today or you know,
part three. But there was a there was a tweet
you put out this morning. It was a series of
stuff and basically somebody had put out that too few
dissidents appreciate the fact that Russia has its own Zionist
occupied government. And I'll, uh, let me just share this
real quick because it's probably the easiest way to to
put what you wrote there. And you wrote Moscow's literally
at war with Israel. Nobody that I know claims some
wonderful government is situated in Moscow. But the idea that
it's some franchise branch of the identical regime that is
situated in Washington as asinine. People who believe this or not.
In the game, you said, there are descendants of the
same guys who claimed breshn F's USSR was Jewish as
Moscow was deploying nuclear weapons to the port of Alexandria
to fire at Tel Aviv, and you went, you went
on and on here, So what is making what would
make people think this? It just doesn't you know. Somebody
posted pictures like, oh, there was a picture of Putin
with a yamaka on and he was talking to Jewish people,
and he passed a law that you're not allowed to, like,
you know, beat up Jewish people, because yeah, I mean,
that's exactly what you would want, right if you want
ordering your country, you just want people running around beating
people up for absolutely no fucking reason. I've had some
Pagans come at me about this, saying, look at all
these laws that the Roman Republican the Empire had where
it was, you know, they were like, you can't do
this to Jews, and you can't see that, yeah, because
you don't want people running around fucking killing people in
the streets, these stupid scumbags. So what's leading to this?
Speaker 2: What is this? Well, it's different things anyway, like whatever,
whether whether there's a good government or a bad one
situated in Moscow, whether it's like a left wing government
or a right wing government, whether it's autocratic or not,
and whether it's truly accountable, you know, whether it's truly
guarding you know, the Russian culture as you know, it's
kind of like the first culture within the federation and nationalities,
like none of that's that's a different question. This idea
that there's some kind of Zionist cadre that runs Russian
and executive capacity and that everything it does is some
like super complicated ledgerd main Like that's idiotic. I think
it's two things. There's people who don't really understand politics,
like they don't. So the fact that like Putin and
Labra don't like punched the air every morning and like
call for death to Israel, and the fact that you
know they maintain at least the appearance of like marginal
league good offices that's called in the traditional diplomatic circles.
Of Israel. These people are so like literal minded they
can't grasp. But that's just how you do things, you know,
like you you maintain an appearance of basic stability, even
even among your even even when you're dealing with your enemies,
perhaps in particularly when you're dealing with your enemies and
in public capacities, like maybe I think there's the review
someone warped, like America having a state department that literally
goes around insulting people and saying crazy things. That's really
really really weird, and nobody does that. Only America does that.
Everybody else they put on a front of a you
know kind of like amicable diplomacy, like even when that's
you know, not really on the table. Secondly, there's people
who don't really understand Jewish power. It's just some kind
of like stand in for like the bad guy or something,
or like any any government that's all, but it all
copies by any you know, by by by any faction
or element that's you know, kind of like hostile to
the organic communitarian impulse of that country. Like they're like, oh,
they's automatically Jewish, Like I think I think it's those things.
It's also going back I mean, the reason why, the
reason why people like Francis Yacki and like Kndye McGinley
and like James Hardsung Metal the reason why kind of
at the heart of uh or at the at the
peak of the the kind of Eisenhower era, they were
making a big deal about, you know, the the Doctor's plot,
which was obviously like a show trial for the benefit
of kind of like the lesser Soviets and non and
like and like Nomenclantera, who were like increasingly dissatisfied with
you know, kind of the way things were going. I mean,
I there's a real like weariness to the staleism, like
at this point, obviously they were signaling without saying it,
like look, we're purging the Party of this element, that
element being you know, self identified Jews, who you know
very much are kind of following their own tendency and well,
you know, in within the political fut of the Eastern Bloc.
But I mean people can't subsequently, people would say stuff
like Oyaki's a Jewish apologist or he's a quote communist,
Like they can't get their mind around the nuances of
these things. So I think it's like, oh, that's stuff
I mean, I I have guys tell me there's literally
a Zionist comedian who's ethnically cleansing Orthodox Christianity from Ukraine.
He's waging a suicidal war like war against the Russians.
There's people who tell me, like that guy is based
in right wing and the Russians are evil, Like these
people like beyond reason. They're really really, really really stupid,
and they they're like the people who insist that like
the CIA, like kill JFK. It's like this article of
faith and like no matter what, they just like can't
let it go. It's like they're like committed to it,
like some people are committed to their religious faith or something.
I don't I don't know, but you know, and it
doesn't you know, if you don't understand, if you don't
understand the the enmity between between Russia and and zionis,
you don't understand the final phase of the Cold War,
and you know, you don't understand basically everything that's happened
in parapletical terms, really the last really since nineteen ninety nine.
You know, so you're just like not in the game,
you know, I mean, if people want to pretend that
like you know, if you want to pretend that, like
the Russians aren't at war with Israel because like later
proven like later Reef at some Holocaust memorial. I mean,
I don't know what to say about that, but I
mean those like I said, it's like it's like trying
to argue with some like little kid about I mean,
I don't even know what, but it's like it's like
a waste of everybody's time. It's just that when that
kind of stuff becomes insinuated, occasionally I feel like shooting
it down because it's like so like off base. And
again there's people who I don't really take a strong
interest in what anybody else does, and there's the content
unless they're my friends or unless I find it worthwhile.
And those are narrow categories, both of them. But NATO
and Israel being at war with Russia, like literally at
war with Russia. That's the key development and high politics
that people must be watching right now. And the outcome
of this conflict cycle is gonna profound applications for the
rest of the century and by mid century. Like I'm
always saying, i I'm not some kind of augur and
I think strategic forecasting is as a discipline. It's not
unlike these guys who claim to be like macro econ gurus,
Like most of those guys just don't know what they're
talking about, and if they do, they're they're basically shills anyway,
because they're not. You got to treat it, like Schumpeter said, basically,
you know. And on the economic side. One of the
reasons he didn't oppose economic modeling. I mean, he was
a heterodox economist, but he wasn't like Avonnesian. He opposed
the economic modeling because he's like, basically, you need to
look at like two to three century like increments, and
you need to you know, you need to you need
to code the data they're in, you know, and then
and then you can get like a conceptual picture about
like what's happening, like you can't. But but like no,
if you nobody, that doesn't work. And like they in
I mean his era, he was talking about this, I
kind of the right of the advent that like television,
it like that you can't talk about econ policy and
like actual ters in the ear of television, all you
can talk about is really like the last administration or
like the last like fiscal season in terms of budgetary
or on public spending. You know, so trumpeters like, no,
just nobody's this is all going to get crowded out
by these guys who claim like, oh no, this is
this is the I you know, modeling like the last
five years of you know, this is why this is
what quantity of easing actually isn't you know, like a
bad thing or whatever, Like it's it's nonsense. So forgive
me for going on the analogy tangent. But if you
want to really, if you want to understand, like the
post Cold War conflict cycle, which I said it kicked
off really in earnest in nineteen ninety nine, that's only
going to be fully realized by mid century, in my opinion,
and kind of the great the great power paradigm is
gonna Central Asia is going to be the pre emory battlespace,
but it's gonna be very fluid in like the United States,
the Russian Federation, the PRC, Turkey to a lesser degree,
I Ran and also Syria is gonna play a role
in that because Syria and Iran, I've got to be
looked at as like a common actor and in military
matters Kazakhstan is gonna play a huge role, although not
like a military one. You know that that's that's the
way you've got to look at these developments. But you know,
the issue too with Russian enmity towards you know, towards
Jews and and vice versa. I mean that you've gotta
this pre seed, this predates the Soviet Union, and we
got into this and some of our earlier content. I'll
dive into that again for context if the thing that's appropriate.
But you know, I don't know why people they can't
get through their head that you know that that that
Russia is not some like in a state or something like.
I don't know, but it's because they're ignorant. It's because
they don't. But these guys also and one of the
reasons why and I'm sure everythings I'm an incordible snob
or just like some kind of like nasty OLII. You know,
there is always pointing out that like we're the one percent,
like almost nobody can actually understand politics like not. It's
so like mysterious, it's like present like intelligence. It's like
either you can like get these things or you don't.
You know, either you've got either you've got an aptitude
for discerning the kind of configurations of power at scale,
and you understand like what inputs like should be coded
in order to kind of predict the outcomes and understand
phenomena like as it's underway or like you don't okay,
and like probably the only majority these guys playing be
right wing. They have no idea they have they have
no idea about any of these things. They just they
don't like immigration and like, and don't get me wrong,
like that's not that's not misplaced or something. But I
mean nobody the immigration is never popular. Nobody likes immigration
except for ideologues or a hostile to the to the
state in question. They're not the state, but like I'm
in the nation in question that's available to these this
kind of state social engineering. They just like don't like immigration.
They don't like the irs, you know, like they've got
you know, they don't like what they look at is
like cultural degeneracy, I mean, which in reality is like
a social engineering regimen.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But like they don't they don't get any of this stuff.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why like they get mad at me and they're like,
I'm not gonna subscribe to anymore because why don't you
tell like it we'd jokes and like blood because man,
like you're not in the game. This is not this
is not the Illinois Republican Party or it's not like
the It's not like the it's not like the Chicago
like white nationalists like Grieven's platform or something, you know. Like,
I see what I see and I canclude, I can include.
It's not some like platform or something, you know. I mean,
I have my own like prejudices, I have my own
There's there's things I'd like to see developed. I've got
my own ideas on what like good government would constitute.
But it's not That's not what I'm doing, you know.
I mean, And so yeah, I think it's that I
don't know and createzy you have like no more tolerance
for these people. I don't. I'm not planning to go
anywhere anytime soon, like like in terms of like being unalive,
but you never know. And uh, there's more time behind
me than in front of me. I'm not trying any
more of it. I'm just like realistic about this. I'm
not gonna spend the time I've left like arguing with idiots.
You know, I'm not gonna spend time I've left like
like like trying to like wake up randoms and I
wouldn't be doing that anyway, but you know, so I don't.
I just don't like fuck with people like this, you know,
like they're not part of my.
Speaker 3: World, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the It almost seems like they have this
very simplistic view of politics because they look at the
West and they see that the West is completely occupied.
So basically all the governments are have the same message.
And then they look at something like Ukraine and Russia
and it's like, oh, they must have the same message too,
because at least part of them is in Europe. And
then well, what so Israel is at war with itself
in Syria. Israel is at war with itself in Hesbal,
with Hesbela because Iran is Iran is supporting Hesbela, and
Iran gets a lot of their a lot of their
missiles and weapons from Russia. So what Israel is just
fighting itself is that? Like is that what the you know,
what they call the kosher sandwich. The kosher sandwich is
them killing themselves so that they can be on both
sides of it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't. Like I said, it's not some
thought out thing. It's just and most of these people are,
they're just it's a it's a thing, bumper sticker catchphrases
and a constellation of like personal prejudices and anxieties and
just a goofy stuff that you know, they they they
picked up because I got, you know, some some crazy
girlfriend or wife who like repeats dumb things. He's an
entertainment and they get mad about that, you know, Like
I said, it's not it's I don't know what they like.
They don't think, you know, And it's also too like
I don't. I mean, on the one hand, I was
making the point that like they quote red pill metaphors
idiotic and and even if it weren't like we're not
Joel lost means megature, it's we're not going door to
door to like red pill people. It's fucking retarded. I mean,
I would we wouldn't be doing that anyway. But like
conceptually it's retarded, but you know, it's not. It's not
complicated to recognize that the regime and anybody who serves
it is not your friend, and like these are your ops.
Like that's that's not complicated, but something like the nature
of Jewish power. There's like nuances to it. There's dynamics, psychological, sociological,
you know, to how human populations relate at scale. You know,
there's historical memory and kind of the way it the
way it presents itself only to a combination of you know,
like enduring conceptual prejudice and and kind of like myth
making within you know, insular cultures. Like that makes a difference.
And also like the culture in question, to what degree
they have a basically collectivist understanding or instinct towards like
collective memory, and to what degree you know there that's
not present. You know, like some culture are highly individualistic
despite also being like very very kind of like cognizant
of of friend any paradigms, like all this stuff are
very complicated, okay, And and then like on top of it,
like uh, Zionism itself is something of a house divided,
you know. It's like you've got to like you've got
to like account for that too, Like there's people kind
of within the that there's people within the same you
know kind of like ethnic and political and sociological constellation.
Or nevertheless, like at each other's throats, you know, and
like that that that leads to like strange outcomes. It's
like all of these things, you know, so you can't
just and I mean finally at the end of the
day again it's just I don't you know it. Uh,
that reminds me. It's almost the it's almost the converse
of these these dummy these truly like ignorant people who
think that like Donald Trump is like is doing things
to them personally. But they think that like they think
that like Holy Rollers and like anti abortion activists are
are going to like send them to like camps or something.
What that means. You know, there's some of these people
who think they literally think that like Jews are like
some kind of like sorcerers or something, and like they
literally control everything on this planet. You know, like uh
like the Man behind the Curtain and the Land of
Oz or something like that. Mean funny, but I'm not
really being funny. It's literally the way they think about it,
you know, Like, uh, like if you wake up in
the morning you have to take a piss. It's because
like there's like some Jewish guys somewhere who like programed
they into your brain by way of like a chemtrail
or something.
Speaker 1: They're they're bigger Zionists. They're bigger Zionist inventionment. Yah.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because to them, like Jews are just like
there's like this all powerful like force. Like I mean,
don't get me wrong, there's it is. It's really strange
in absolute terms, within it in twenty within the paradigm
of the twentieth century, it makes it actually makes perfect
sense that like Zionist would capture this kind of like
outside as cloud. Okay, particularly in America, that shouldn't surprise anybody,
especially when you consider the you know, certain certain military
and strategic factors that kind of like rendered a perfect storm.
But that's why like I'm always talking about like Hannah
Arentz book, because I mean she that that's her whole point,
you know, like there's nothing that this shouldn't like come
to surprise anybody that these dynamics are present and that
they ended in like real tragedy. I mean, there's not
going tragedy like born of of this, but it uh yeah,
I mean it's it's but like I said, I don't
I my time is valuable to me and and plus
like I don't like what do I what do I
care what these people think? You know, they're not in
the game. Like basically it's sometime it's another show because
it's like I mean that this you know itself is complicated,
but you knows of all, like we're not we're not
or I'm not I'm not running for office, Okay, I'm
not trying to like build some party. I definitely have
a practical vision of what my people should be doing,
and we're doing it like literally, like every day, this
is the way I live my life, and thousands of
others live their lives who I am indexed with this
as well under way, but uh, you know, I uh
we're a vanguard tendency because we're shifting the conceptual perspective
and more partly clarifying it for you know, the one
percent who will follow us, you know, and that's what's
going to dictate, you know, the way forward for our people.
You know. It's not like somehow incorporating you know, like
quote unquote based ideas into like the Republican or the
Democrat party platform. Like it's not you're you're you're you're
asleep at the wheel if you think that, or you're
like mentally or you're mentally dead, like there's nothing to
do with what we're doing. And even if that's not
even possible anymore, you know, like that's that's totally backwards looking,
that's totally stunted thinking. That's just not the way things are.
And a lot of people also can't come to terms
with globalism or they just like don't understand it, like
even even aside from the the design of stuff, and
you know, they're kind of gross and misconceptions they're in.
Like people this idea that the world's like forever like
nineteen eighty or something. You know, like there's like this
firm border in America and that it's just been compromised
and it's like letting in bad people or that like
there's this thing called the West where it's like clearly
defined and you know, like the nation state remains king,
and you know, you've just got to like reverse the
lever on policy and there'll be some kind of like
it's some kind of like opper what back like times
a million, like you know, and if you get like
Donald Trump, and that don't even wrong. I like Trump.
I'm not like saying he's people shouldn't like him, But
the other idea he's gonna be like Eisenhower and he's
just gonna like deport like eighty million people or like
that's not even conceivable anymore, Okay, Like the state is dead,
like the Nermer system is collapsing around you. It's gonna
take about another like century and a half, but it's
like really kind of an earnest like and probably and
probably like another like centric probably like two to three
hundred years like that. That's memory who won't exist anymore.
But it's like collapsing all around you, like conceptually as
well as like physically, like the way people think about
like law and order and law enforcement like that, that's
that's going away. Like all kinds of all kinds of
things of a profound sociological character are happening, and people
like can't they like like it doesn't compute, like they
can't like understand it or someth thing. You know. So
there's that too, you know, to understand like the earlier issue,
like understand understand like Zionist power and understand like why
it's slipping right now, and understand kind of like why
it was able to insinuate itself into policy corridors and
and such like a it's such like a domineering way.
Like you've got to understand the Cold War. Understand the
Cold War. You got to understand what you understand Nerve
understand Nurmer. You got to understand like why World War
two is fought, you know, like understand that. You've got
to understand like you know, the Westphalian system and how
a combination of and how a combination of of conceptual
as well as like material factors. You know, like like
you know, just destroyed institutions like the Holy Roman Empire
and like rendered in so that there couldn't be like
a nothing like a like a Western Caliphate, which was
the way things were going, you know, not none terms
like Islam in the West. I mean like the Roman
Church basically was like heading that way. It's not some
trashing Catholics. It's not any trashing Catholicism. But you know,
like a thirty years war like change everything. So when
you see like unless you truly like understand these things,
you don't really understand what's going on right now, you know,
and you don't and like I said, the I'm rambling
at it, but you know, the the system wheel of
under is is dying at death by a thousand proverbial cuts.
It's just, uh, it's just gonna be a slow thing.
But it's already well under way. It's not gonna there's
not gonna be like a November ninth, like nineteen eighty
nine moment where like everything like collapses and like it's
no longer you know there, there's there's like no longer
like a functioning like uh like like regime government, Like
that's not gonna happen, you know for a lot. It's
it's like rubber eysed against that. But it's also like
America's unique both and like its size and and certain
other factors, and it's kind of like you know the
way there's still like there's still like localized like power
bases and things like that in a way that like
would be unthinkable in other countries. Like America is still
even though a lot of it's like a Potemkin village,
America still is like hugely rich compared to like everybody else.
So I mean, like it you can you can you
can solve a lot of problems and money, or at
least you can like staple off like a lot of
problems if you can like buy people off basically, and
there's like a lot of that going on right now
and that's going to continue. Okay, don't like things.
Speaker 1: Like that, so switch gears a little bit. Our friend
Darryl Cooper was on the biggest podcast in the world
last week and uh echoed some, uh some of your
talking points, and through that he went he I think
doubled his subscribership on on sub stack, which was already substantial. Uh,
Darryl has Daryl has tens of thousands of paid subscribers
on the sub stack, and I don't think these are
all paid, but you know, his subscription just went through
the roof, and I don't know what did Uh. What
do you think about hearing uh, hearing some of the
things that you've been talking about for decades reaching millions
of people.
Speaker 2: It's kind of wild. I mean it's kind of wild.
I don't follow her content heavidly, Like I know who
she is, but that's about it. Like when Cannas Owens
like retreated the other week. Yeah, and then I started
having people. I mean, this happened some before, but like
people like recognize me on the street a bunch now
and it's not me cheesing cloud. I don't do that.
I okay, not like doing it at all. I'm just
telling you literally, like people on the street now like
come up to me and they know who I am,
and it's kind of wild. It's it's kind of wild.
I mean, murder Made seems like a good dude. I
don't know him, you know I And it's totally fine
because I'm not like a cloud chaser. If people if
people repeat things I say, that's totally fine. I if
they don't credit me, I'd be salty if I'd be
salty if somebody was publishing stuff I wrote and claiming
it was theirs, or I'd be salty if somebody literally
like took like if they literally told one of my
pot episodes or something like that and dropped what amounts
to you know, kind of like a heterodox theory on
the war or something, and it's like, yeah, you know,
like this is my this, this is my conclusion. That
makes me very salty. But I mean, I don't I
don't expect people like murder Made to be like, oh,
this is what this guy said. I mean, you know
that's not I mean, gon'na be corny. But it's also
like it's not nobody's trying to take try to for
things or or put shade on me by doing that.
But it's it's it's a lot to get used to, man,
you know. But I mean, don't get me wrong, like
I'm incredibly blessed. I you know, I I don't know.
I mean, like life is strange, man, but I did
and I don't want to be like more bitter like
or at like like I had such a bad time
early on. I had a lot of advantages, but the
first half of my life, like adult life, it was
kind of rough, man like, and I mean a lot
of that was like my fault and some of it wasn't,
but a lot of it was. And at the end
of the day, you know, like how how you manage
things is it is on you, you know, and like
I mean, tragedy is gonna happen and you're like you're
gonna experience horror. And I didn't handle a lot of
this stuff real well, and I ended up in a
really really food our place. It's like I can't it's
like incredible, like in in a fucked up way. However,
I never wanted to kill myself, man, like, not just
because I think I got every strong survivor's instinct, like
like legit, like I do. I think I'm literally hard
to kill, Okay, not like I'm tough. I'm not like
any kind of fire or anything. I mean, like because
he allows me in spiritual am hard to kill. Okay.
But I in the back of my mind, even when
things are really bad, like like really bad, you know,
like I was like holmeless and stuff, I thought to myself,
like if I only hang on and find a way
out of this like fucked up thing, you know, like
like get a handle on on my addiction and get
well and get out of this kind of paradigm of
like of like violence of all kinds you know, like physical,
like spiritual and everything else. Like I can probably like
make something of myself, you know, by through like my
writing specifically, you know. And other times I thought like, well,
that's stupid, you know, that's it's way too wait for that.
But you know, I figured, then, well, it's like, okay,
at least it's like a cop people I care about,
and they've got like reams of stuff I wrote, so
like if I die, like they'll they'll be there for posterity.
And then like in the future arena it's only like,
you know, something like five guys or ten guys and
girls who like read something I wrote, and they're the
right kind of people, like they'll like carry that with
them and you know, maybe that'll have like a positive impact.
And especially because I don't have children, which is totally fine.
I'm only find being like a Chase sold in the apocalypse.
But this does make a difference if you're not like
a father, you know too, like, well, gee, what I
want to leave something behind men. But yeah, there was
a little bit personal man like forgive me for that.
But uh, that's I I appreciate that people find my
content worthwhile. And you know, like I said, it's uh,
I think myself first and foremost as a political theorist
and historical revisionist. But I also think I have something
to convey to people about the human condition, you know,
not because I'm so smart or so like moral. I mean,
I'm a depray of center, like of the worst sort,
like every man is every man and woman is. But
I I do think I have something to convey to
people that you know, in their own lives and especially
considering where like our people are situated at this like
you know, historical and epoch where I mean in some ways,
in some ways there's like plenty everywhere. In other ways
we really like like a devil is really winning, you know,
and it's perilous. It's hard to survive, especially for young people.
You know. I'm not I'm not I'm a sole survivor
out of my like little poetterie. Okay, I mean that
I try have to dwell on that. I'm not afraid
of dying. But there there's things implicit in what I
just said that they're kind of fucked up and like
I don't like to think about it, but I you know,
I don't. The young people today, I think are a
lot more squared away than was my generation, but it's
still like not easy to survive, you know, and it's
really hard being young, so especially I'm hoping that I
can convey some of that stuff. But yeah, that's again,
forget that probably got kind of personal and like rambly,
so like, forgive me for the no problem.
Speaker 1: You've said that you don't believe that the there's going
to be an election this year. What does that look
like to you?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I dropped like a short take this morning
on on Twitter. This uh proposed uh ceasefire agreement pergazo.
You know, c i A has formally like it's emerging
from CIA, which is really unprecedented, and.
Speaker 1: That's never happened before, right, because I was talking to
my wife about that, where you know, you have so
many questions. It's like, Okay, the CIA is proposing a
peace plan. It's like, oh wait a minute, that's not
the State Department, that's not the executive When the hell
has this ever happened before? Who's in charge?
Speaker 2: It hasn't, It hasn't. So what I think is the
deep state is trying to extricate any impression that like
Missus Harris, or rather the regime that she at least
technically still serves it is like involved in this, like
they're they're they're not going to let her like grab
clout in that way. Okay, And that suggest to me
that they may be a bandon here. Okay. I still
maintain like there's not going to be like an election
in precedented terms if Missus Harris totally fucks this up
and there is like a deal hashed out in a
perbial smoke filled room between Peter Thiel and and you know,
Missus Harris is uh like Wall Street friends and whoever else,
and they just like decide to give it to Trump
like there's still not going to be an election. You know,
that'll just mean that Trump gets the nod. And I think,
like a dear friend, Jay Burden pointed this out, and
so did uh, so did my other my other buddy.
Second of this, he's the latter. He's a guy who's
been around. He's the guy like uh who like finangled
the press pass and was able to like you know,
subversively like get inside the d n C. But yeah,
both me the point that you know Trump has on paper,
Trump has a lot of assets. He does not have
a lot of liquid capital. You know, it's not some
bash on Trump, that's just reality. And you know, his
war chest, uh what remained of it was depleted by
like this like lawfair nonsense. And I mean a lot
of these a lot of these complaints that were brought
against him, like they were like laughable, you know, but
at the point was I mean, they they were trying
to you know, they were they were filed in jurisdictions
where they wouldn't simply get laughed out of court. So
I mean, even even if it only proceeded to like
you know, preliminary stages that cost they cost money to
fight that ship. You know. So like what I'm getting
as that I don't think Trump has I don't I
don't think Trump has any money, okay, and that makes
him beholden the people. When you're beholden the people, you're
no longer like a wild card variable, you know. And
like I said, uh, Teal is a weird guy. I
think I don't want to get into like an argument,
not with you, but I mean, I don't want to
rehash the Peter Teal thing, like whatever can be said
about him, and like his character and stuff. He's not
like a dummy, especially about money. He's not gonna be
like pumping money into the Trump campaign for the sake
of appearances or something, you know. So that's where I'm
at with it. But I still don't believe that it's
just gonna be this, you know. Okay, We're we're gonna
return to, you know, having an election day where people
you know, where we're like US citizen like present an
ID on election day and then they cast a vote
at a polling place, and then those votes are tallied
and then at the conclusion of election day. You know,
the man or the or the lady you who is
telling the most votes of the president United States. That's
never going to happen again, you know.
Speaker 1: So before we started recording, I was telling you about
you probably saw this thing out of Springfield, Ohio. Basically
a town fifty two thousand people, mostly white, and they
just injected like twenty thousand Haitians into it at once.
And I don't I don't want to sound like, Look,
I would love to see a bunch of Mexicans go
back to Mexico. But I deal with Mexicans all the time,
and for the most part, we get along, no problem
at all. I've lived around Haitians before in South Florida.
This is a different breed of people. This is literally
a government that was founded upon slaughtering white people, every
white person on the island. And then they did a
human sacrifice and asked a demon to bless them, and
that's how their country was founded. There are reports that
they're eating ducks out of parks, some woman ate some
some was on the lawn somewhere eating someone's cat. These
people historically are not should not be here, should not
be around white people. The Domerican Republic shoots on site
and they share an island. What the fuck do you
do about this?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I met ground zero of the refugee invasion.
Like you know, these refugees are are they're cartel guys,
like cartel errand boys. They're like Venezuelan street dudes. You know,
they're they're they're wackos from mental institutions. They're guys like
literally like a price on their head or like on
the run from like Honduras. It's a bunch of military
age males who are like I mean, it's literally like
an evasing force. Like one of these idiots was like
squeezing off shots that like towards O block because he's
trying to apparently like this went like viral on TikTok
or something. It's like I said to the hood guys,
there's gonna you know, this is a this is gonna
cause a potentially like a bloodbath in terms of like
gangster ship. And obviously the only the only point of
the policy is an arco tyranny, like you don't and
it's it's it's becoming increasing increasing like laid beer. Like
it's just like why are they they're taking these like
guys who've been like chased out of Pakistan, you know,
like all military age males, and like dropping them in Ireland.
Like why would they even occur to anybody? Like that
literally doesn't make any sense. And even even by the
internal kind of like perverses, it may be like logic
of you know, kind of these un resolutions on unlike refugees,
if you're a ref if you're a true refugee, you're
required to apply for what do you call it amnesty
or whatever? Not amnesty, but in the first likewecan say, stylum, sylum, Yeah,
thank you. So there's guys from Pakistan just ending up
in rural Ireland, I mean like that they're just got
like they're gonna they're gonna boat lift a bunch of
Haitians into like Alabama. I mean, like it's obvious what's
going on here. I mean, and it's really the only
the only way people are gonna be able to mitigate
or remedy that until you know, the regime is forced
to stop these things, and it will happen. But like
I said, it maybe in real long process. You know,
you've got you've got to think locally you absolutely have
to think locally. And I'm not trying to sound corny,
You're like it takes a village. Like what I mean
is in practical terms, in common self defense terms, especially,
okay and most especially, this cannot be ended enough. You've
got to think locally. You've got to defend your own hood,
you've got to defend your own family, you gotta defend
your own community. And you know when our people come
catch like punitive flag for this, whether in the former
like law fair or a malicious prosecution, like we've got
to show up to defend them to okay, in a
broad front kind of way, you know, like socially pulit
we legally every other way. I'm not gonna like fed
speak or you know they go on a fed post thing,
like you absolutely must do these things. And you know
that's why, like I said, like I I'm always coming
back to social capital and where we're we're accomplishing that.
And every time I see that, there's like a there's
like a bunch of like randos who like who send
who send me like emails or DMS or something like
like like I'm like I'm asking a felt job applications
or something like it's now I'm talking about you don't
get to like we're not we're not building some like
community of beast people. And like it's not like going
to chuck e cheese or something. You don't like get
a ticket you can come to like you got to
do this ship in your own orbit, in your own life,
in your own locale. You know, it's not some paint
my numbers thing. But at the same time, it's also
should like naturally happen, you know, I mean five years ago,
I didn't know any of you guys. Okay, Like now
you're like my family now, like we have like we're
literally like you know, tens of thousands strong. Like now
like I do have an actual physical community that I'm
gonna start spending a good part of the year in
where there's like thousands of us who deliberately like took
these measures. That's all you can do, Okay. And it's
not like I don't mean that like some kind of
minimal like like it's some kind of like minimum remedy
like this is the this is the way out.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Don't fuck with regime stuff, don't index with it, don't
legitimize it, don't type your finances with it. Don't don't
become reliant on a job with it. You know, like
you have got to quit all of this ship. And
you can do it. Today there's a lot of capital
looking for a place to go. It's very easy to
raise money these days. It's very easy to stay connected
with your peoples. Okay, if I can do it, anybody
can do it. Okay. It's not a question like this
is like guy's hands. This is the way, like history
is moving. Okay, So it's all you gotta do is
like show up and be correct. It's the end of
my Stirne.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I've been talking to some of our
guys over the past couple of days when these videos
started coming out, especially from Ohio, and then you know,
we got we got people down here everything with the
old Glory Club, and I think we're pretty much of
the opinion that if anything is going to and I
don't want this to happen. I'm not advocating for this
to happen. Anyone who's listening, if anything could cause the
right to go kinetic, it's this. It's seeing those videos
on Twitter, seeing you know, America First Legal just put
out a thing today a long thread today talking about
where these Haitians, how these Haitians got here, and how
many any are actually here right now? And this is
I I'm not I don't like making predictions, but a
friend of mine said, make predictions. It means you got
skin in the game. I'm thinking that if anything is
going to make the right Gough kinectic, it might be this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, it's already happened. It's already happening. I mean,
I if I seem I do not at all, like
maybe be like flipping about this. If I seem that way,
I'm always behind enemy lines. I always have been, I
always will be because I'm never gonna leave here for
you know, I'm always gonna spend at least part of
the year here. So I mean, this is just this
is my every day like I'm not and it always
has been. But I'm not saying like, oh, I'm such
a bit ass so like you know, I I know
better than anybody else like that, That's not what I'm
saying at all. Like what I'm saying is that like
I I I don't even like notice it anymore, you know,
because of where I live. But uh, yeah, obviously what
they're doing, is the regimes trying to compromise readouts potentially
and UH as well as compromise the ability of UH
of people to mobilize locally. But they're not gonna be
able to They're not gonna be able to do it.
And what we're up on. It's not a numbers game,
but like in terms of God forbid uh, you know,
like a ross and krieg, or in terms of like
in terms of like racial like war politics, I mean
it's a conflict politics. Rather, it's a spectrum. I mean
we are seventy million strong, you know, in terms of
people who are like, yeah, I don't I don't vote
for like the one weight nation thing, you know, like
I just profound differences between people based on ethnos. But
in terms of like silent majority coalition stuff, I mean,
these are the people we do stand with, you know,
like when Shiit is hot, I mean again, there's like
seventy million of us. We're not We're not gonna take
a knee and get our asses kicked. A bunch of
like I went to like filonious creeps, like being chased
out of their own like freaking bailed state shiphole countries.
No fucking chance, you know. But I mean we're always
we're always outnumbered, man, I mean I I you know,
like guys who got I know, some of the fellas
a you know who what fuck with us heavily and
our great guys and like lots of some of these
guys like been in prison and stuff before they turn
their life around. Thank God, I've never really been in prison.
I've only ever had to like freaking stay in jail
for a couple of days. But you know, like these
guys said, you know, like if you're like a you know,
I feel like a white dude who's down like you
you you basically like walk the yard alone and like,
you know, not just because you know, know that's that's
like the fate of the master Cast. But it's also
because like we're not we're not a munch of freaking
tribal primitives. Like we're not. We're not people need you know,
some kind of like we need some kind of like
collectivist paradigm to function, you know, like and I emphasize
the other people again and again. And that's like there's
a younger like like younger made a lot of that.
That's why I like it irritates me with people like
like when I when I talk about like being a
wood and like walking alone path like people like some
like esoteric thing that's like indecipherable but they don't want
to have to fucking talking about it irritates me. But
it's obvious if you're in the game. And well, I
mean this, this is where it's at. I I get
on the bus every morning and when I leave my
little town, which is like, you know, fifteen, like eighteen
minutes north of downtown. Like, uh, I mean, I'm a
minority here, but like, let's like less, it's less, h
the volume is little less. But uh ever I go
during my day, I'm out number one thousand to one.
You know, it doesn't shake me up. I mean obviously obviously,
uh I. I want to return to kind of the
the proverbial like warm yet iron embrace and my own people.
And that's again why like I'm so lucky to have
clicked up with you guys, and why I've kind of
found my home away from home in the south Land.
But uh oh, I can fucking thrive anywhere, man.
Speaker 1: You know, well, let's end on a you know, somewhat
positive or let's see if you're on this positive, it's
like a FD one like three different three different areas,
three different states in in Germany. I think they're all former.
I think they're all former DVR area, which makes yes.
Speaker 2: But I was great, Yeah, what do you think about that? No,
I mean, that's that's good news. And I know the
dude he's I don't want to docs and I know
I know the dude who is kind of the unofficial
liaison of a FD in America. You know, he's like
an East Coast and to do It'll leave it at that,
and he he's been very cool to me man, and
so of so of h a lot of his friends.
One of the reasons why I don't like people being
down on the gropers like this, the say of de
do in question, like a lot of his, a lot
of his is a lot of the dudes that he
a lot of the dudes that he he rides with
here in America are like the East Coast grapers and
they're like, they're like fucking solid as dudes. I got
I got love for the East Coast brapers.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: That's I mean. I don't like people like ship talking
others anyway unless they're truly like one of our ops
and like a piece of ship. I just don't like it.
But I know some people got issues with the grapers,
but I I want to shout out that I got
love for them. I ground today and some other things.
But no, they are, they have d They're good dudes.
They're serious dudes. But the problem is, you know, that
kind of breakout momentum they're cultivating, they're they're just going
to be banned, you know if uh, if they continue,
assuming they don't just like kind of like peak like
with some kind of obviously they're they're beyond just like
being some like you know, having some like little stronghold
in Saxony or whatever. But there's always a point at which,
uh that there's always a point at which, uh the
boon is for public. Like there's some like bands like
parties that you know are are serious about, you know,
dismantling the occupation regime. So unfortunately that's the fate of
af D, like if they continue on this path of
the success. But it does, but it is positive because
you know, they're that regime is uh is losing credibility
just like you know, the just just like it's just
like get the the host regime from which it was emergent.
You know here in America is losing any legitimacy. You know,
like NATO literally pulled off a massive terrorist attack in
German infrastructure, basically tank their economy, and like now they're
especially at bank roll like this kind of permanent like
desionist war against Russia. Like you think, how do you
how do you sell that as like sensible government, you know,
like it's not long for this earth. So it's something
to watch. And I can actually I can basically decipher
German media like a do all. I'm not at all
fluent in German, but I can. I can basically read
it and understand it, unlike say, like you know, trying
to try to get sense for what's happening in like
TV France or or or Russia or something. But yeah, no,
God God blessed the the German guys, a lot of
a lot of whom are are big supporters of my
stuff and and just like good guys man, you know,
my heart's always with the Germans. I mean, I'm I'm
very much like an anglophone person. I'm like, oh, I
am like an ulster bastard like you know, I'm like more,
I'm more like and more like angle Sax and then
like a lot of English people like literally like my
dna is. But I did have like a freaking German granny,
you know, something like I And I mean I like
I like the crowds anyway, you know. But yeah, that's
that's my take.
Speaker 1: Well let's let's take this all the way back to
the beginning. Some people were shitting on the FD because, oh,
it seems like some of the leadership is Jewish.
Speaker 2: Maybe there are, maybe they aren't. I don't haven't. I
haven't deep dived into their personnel, other staff, uh, the personalities,
like the constantly kind of like their control group. I
haven't like deep dived into their backgrounds. Maybe they are,
they're not. But again, there's no chance of some like
electoral solution emerging in the Boots Republic for all kinds
of reasons. But all I can tell you is that
the dudes I indexed with and who have like broken
bread with literally who kind of like represent their ship
in America, these guys, I don't think they were just
like telling me what I wanted to be here, Like
why would I why would they? You know, I'm just
some guy. They they realized that what I just said
that there's not going to be some kind of sea
change and sea change and policy I think and somehow,
you know, get a place at the table of a
future coalition. Like they know that. The read I got
was they're they're playing the electoral game. They're playing the
parliamentary game for the same reasons. Why, like I've said,
I think Donald Trump is important, like because Trump the
guy is like this amazing guy, like because like his
policies or even like such as they exist. I mean,
Trum's good on immigration, he's good on trade. Beyond that,
obviously he sucks it policy wise, but Trump the Trump
the guy is an important like him as a as
a as a sociological and historical phenomenon symbolically speaking, and
like an animating catalyst for the silent majority coalition. Like
that's why he's important. I uh, it's an impervent analogy.
But when I gleaned from these AfD guys, like they
met me and uh my buddy, my, uh my, my
Swedish buddy who's actually back in Sweden now like over
in Sweden. He was born here, but he's got you know,
like the little studentship. We we met them at this
north side German place, not not like my go to place,
an arming park, like at a different joint. And you know,
like they they when I was out like a year
and like two months ago, when I was out in Brooklyn,
like these guys showed me like a lot of a
lot of love and give me a lot of respect
and show me a lot of fatality. But I think
they're realistic always the dudes I talk to. I mean
maybe the man in the street, he was like a
dude's paying member of am D like what he thinks.
I have no idea, but I, like I said, man,
I I don't think there's a lot of Germans running around,
like don't understand kind of like the parameters of of them,
the regime they live under.
Speaker 1: You know, do you think the best thing that you
can hope for under an occupation government is just somebody
or you get like somebody running the regime that just
leaves you alone At this point.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's in the hands of history, you know,
which is the cunning of reason which emerges from the
mind of God. But again it's a matter of like
thinking locally, man like you and what matters is if
you live in a small town in Alabama, you know
it's important unless he's like a total ship bag and
you'd be compromising yourself and making friends with them, like
be cool with like the local cops or cops, like
be cool with the marryor town you know, or the
local coptroll or whatever. You know. Make sure that like
the state legislature, like the guy you send there like
isn't a ship bag like stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You know it.
Speaker 2: If the regime decides is gonna smash you, it'll find
a way. It'll it'll subject you to lawfair or it'll
just like or it'll just like stick the I R
s on you until you tell and say you like
eight hundred thousand dollars even though you don't you know,
so like Daniell just constantly be like fighting, like hang
out any money you make, you know, ship like that.
But you know, I uh, people gotta be habituated the
fact that I mean if you take on political commitments,
especially ones that I mean, I don't think it's like
this big scary detriment to like not fuck with regime stuff.
It's like it's it's like it's like total it should
be like totally liberating. But for those people who find
it like upsetting or like really fucks with your program. Okay, Well,
if you're gonna take on a disin perspective, you've gotta
be you've gotta fully embrace the fact that like you're
going to be long, you're gonna be dead, you're gonna
be dust before like you know, you see anything like
truly counterfruition. Like I said in my life, I I
figured what's happening now? When we started happening like like
around like eight years ago, I knew that would happen
at some point, but I figured, you know, I always,
like I said before, like I figured I'd be like
long day, but then it happened. I was totally okay
with that. You know, I'm lucky to have been alive
when this kind of phase of the historical process that
tourch concerns, you know, the kind of fate of America
and it's uh late modern phase. I mean, I'm lucky.
I'm lucky to be alive like at the time that
I am. Okay, that's what we gotta look at it.
This this this pros and cons that every like EPO, I.
Speaker 1: Think we should end it right there too, plugs and
I'll end it.
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I've got a whole realm of I had
a whole realm of stuff. If I wasn't sure how
you wanted to approach this, you want to talk about it,
totally fine, like I actually it was really nice the
conversation and be kind of free flowing like that. But
if you want to talk about Russian Syrian relations from
you know, the post World War two hour or two today,
I could talk about that like all day.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you tell me that? Man? We could have
been doing that. It's like, hell, yeah, I want to
talk about that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's fine your show. I don't want to
be like, hey, this is what we're doing. What let's
let's reconvene this week and we'll do that. Is that acceptable?
Speaker 1: That sounds great to me? Man? That now now I'm excited.
I love hearing about Syria. Man, that's the country fascinates me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. I it's it's all. I really
love Syria and I I've got great love with the
Syrian people. But yeah, I'm back on Twitter or X
as they call it, which really lame. I mean this
this might be like an old person concern. If I
open up the X app on my phone, and which
I do not in frequently, As'm always on the bus
they train, it looks like I'm looking at fucking pornography
or something. It's like, it's like, why would you do that?
I like, I got love for Elon, but I I
don't know why he did that. It's stupid. But as
it may, you can find me there. It's at real
all caps R E A L underscore number seven lowercase
h O M A S seven seven seven. You can
find on my website. It's Thomas seven seven seven dot
com number seven h M A S seven seven seven
dot com. You can find that substack real Thomas R
E R e A L T h O m A
S seven seven seven dot substack dot com on Instagram.
Another I'm like all over the fucking place, include like
my plug is like in the disc if you would
please of course, And yeah.
Speaker 1: Says the merch got says the merch got a free
shoutout today and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I got them.
Speaker 1: But that is really by that Israeli agent Jordan's shock.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I did a whole substack about that.
How that guy. How that guys, thank you?
Speaker 2: I yeah, what a huge goof that guy is. But no,
thank you, man, I appreciate them. I appreciate that. I
didn't have time to have time to comment yet, but
yeah I blitz Ink Studios if you're like and clearly
like the Mercalink. I never remember like what the freaking
r l is, but but yeah, I got our dear
friend here, Kree. He's he's he's a brilliant guy for
like mocking up like shirts and stuff like I'm like
a teacher guy. I think everybody knows, you know, and
his his designs are just like freaking awesome, man. So yeah,
that's where we're at. I'm trying to bear down on
this manuscript and it seems to be going well, and yeah,
all is well and every bless and it's autumn and
autumn's the best season. And in a few days on
Sunday is my birthday, and uh, I'm kind of looking
forward to that because I'm gonna go eat good with
with the fellas and it's u. On September fifteenth, nineteen
seventy six, Atron Big Alerts Singleton, the rapper who was
also a cannibal murderer, he was born. I was also
born on the exact same date. Auvert Stone was born
on that day too, but that was like way back
in nineteen forty seven. But yeah, so like me and
big LARTs like share a birthday, just kind of creep evil.
Speaker 1: Is there ever saw you? My my patent thing? I
shared a I share a birthday with Paton And I
was born in and I was born in the hospital
he died in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot that you were born in in the
Bunus Republic. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Heidelberg. Yeah, so yeah, the same birthday, November eleventh,
and yeah, we're the same hospital. All Right, man, I'll
talk to you this week. Let's take care now,