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Speaker 1: It's j Dire Jason j D.

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Speaker 2: Jay Diers Days Analysis, Jade Ires Days Nells.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Jay's Analysis. Today. We're gonna be

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talking about Protestantism and Evangelicalism and how they are refuted.

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And we're gonna do it in eighties Chad shirt an

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eighties boomer hat. This hat is way too big for

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my head. It looks really ridiculous, but I couldn't find

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my good hat. I don't feel like combing my hair,

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So we're gonna be I've got my dry erase pad.

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Now this is pig Martin Luther two demonstrate dry race bad.

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How that's gonna work? So I'll be sketching notes for

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you boys and girls. You can take your notes here.

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The nerds are pleased. And we got one hundred and third.

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Last time I did a weekend stream, I got like

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three hundred people right away. So where is everybody partying tonight?

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What is tonight? Is this party night? Is this fish fry?

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Is this the feast of Saint Booz tonight? Anyway? So

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maybe with the aid of dry erase board, we can

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help you kids get along in the world. Maybe if

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you're good, I'll draw you a bronie all right now,

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will be taking questions. Of course, We've already got a

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couple of super chats. Appreciate that go. We're going to

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talk about I'm gonna I want to try to go

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pretty hardcore. I want to go in depth because I've

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had so many questions about doing, you know, reputation of

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Protestantism over the last few years. So we've covered a

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lot of ground with Catholicism. We've done a lot of

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theological issues related to Rome, but we haven't really done

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a whole lot of protest and apologics. And we're going

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to do some of that tonight, so hopefully we can

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hit all the majors. I've got with me my seven

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Ecumenical Council's book from the Chaft set, so we'll be

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diving into some of that, looking at the councils. And yes,

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we will be doing the papacy very soon. In fact,

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there was going to be a debate and surprise, surprise,

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he wasn't ready to do it, which is what we

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always find. And yes, we will essentially probably work through

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the famous of ab gatea the papacy. This is one

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of the classic critiques of the Roman Papacy by a

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convert from Rome to Orthodoxy, So some of the other

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books that would be relevant in this for newcomers, I

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always recommend The Experience of God to Everybody by Father

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Stunny Lloyd. This is a classic of Orthodoxy, so that's

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a good one to get in terms of what we

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conceive of as a holistic view of salvation, theosis or

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identification in Christ by Paniotis Nellis, so that's another good

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one you can get trying to get the light right,

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so it doesn't there you go, there's a There are

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sermons by Saint Gregory Palamas on Mary why She's stay

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at Tokos, and of course the writings of Saint Cyril

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against this Storius on the Unity of Christ, and John

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mcguckin's book Saint Cyril of Alexander and the Christological controversy

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will will play a central role in the theology that

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we're gonna be talking about tonight, because most Protestantism, whether

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it knows it or not, falls into Nestorianism. So we'll

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get into all that later on. But uh, for other options,

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people going what they think is other routes, I recommend

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the set of a conciesst Delusion by John Pontrello, good book.

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He was influenced by my work. I can't get the

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light right set of a conscious delusion, so that we

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don't go down that road, that mistake. Let's see what

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else have we got here. Michael Welton's book is pretty standard.

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Two Paths Roman Orthodoxy Michael Welton, Two Paths, that's a

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good book, one of the Catholic stuff, because I'm sure

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we're gonna have a wide audience here different theological views.

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And then, of course it's always important to understand the

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cosmic scope of Orthodoxy as opposed to the limiting scope

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of all Western theology, whether Roman, Catholic or Evangelical. And

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to begin to understand the cosmic scope of Eastern theology,

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you need to understand Saint Maximus and to understand that

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Christ is by his incarnation united to all human beings,

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universal human nature. That's why all men are resurrected. That

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is the universal teaching of all the Orthodox fathers. After Augustine,

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the scope of salvation begins to be limited, particularly in

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terms of the elect or the predestined, and Rome certainly

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goes down that route. So then you have the loss

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of the cosmic scope of the redemption. However, Roman's eight

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Paul very clearly says that the scope of redemption is cosmic.

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And then of course you can read Lars Thurnberg's summarize

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work there Man in Cosmos on Saint Maximus as well.

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And then for worship, of course, Orthodox worship, it's a

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big deal for many of the Protestancy evangelicals. Orthodox worship

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is based on the continuity of worship in the Temple

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and the Synagogue. So I would recommend Orthodox Worship a

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live in Continuity with the Synagogue Temple in the Early

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Church by Williams and Anstall. And for maybe something a

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little more on the scholarly side of things, if you're

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interested in just the historic the Orthodox Liturgy by Hugh

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Weybrew the development of Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine era.

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So those are some introductory books that are worth checking

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out if you are because everybody always asks for books.

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I have already linked below the recommended reading section. And

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tonight we're gonna be talking about not just the Bible,

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not just theology. We're also be talking about a lot

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of history. Now I have old essays that everybody could

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read and Jason. Also, I worked all day to day

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basically fixing old articles. So I fixed another thirty or so,

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so you can go and find all those in the archives.

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But I have old articles that deal with the canon

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of Scripture, the septuagent, the use of the Deutero canon

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by the early Church, the Catechism. Get ready, what are

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you talking about? Catechism? Get ready? Yes, microcosmo media, right, yes, exactly.

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So basically in the archives you can find all the

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kind of stuff that I'll be talking about in written form.

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So and no, I'm not referring to them, You'll just

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have to dig them up. We're all going to be

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just going from memory here. So I've put enough time

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into this. I can do all this off the cuff

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over the years. So now I would not do a

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drinking game based on the names I use. All right,

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So where to start with Protestants. Well, it doesn't really

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matter whether we start historically or whether we start biblically.

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Both are going to be problematic. So I think if we,

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let's see, I want to be able to pull up

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the Church fathers to have the quotes ready for you

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when we refer to that. Let's see here, So similar

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to the critique that we had with with Rome. We're

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going to see that there's a different anthropology, there's a

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different theology, a different eschatology, a different ecclesiology, a different

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sacramentology across the board for pretty much all forms of Protestantism.

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And you're going to notice as well that the absolute

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divine simplicity doctrine of Rome will really condition absolute divines,

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will condition the theology and Protestantism as well. The difference

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is that it will condition the theology in a different

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direction than it conditioned the Roman theology. Roman theology, of course,

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was a lot more make sure my volumes levels are

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right here. Roman theology was a lot more philosophical than

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the truck of Protestantism. Of course, Protestanism, seeking to out

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of the humanist tradition of the Late Renaissance, returned to

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the original sources, the idea of being able to just

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go back to the Bible, just go back to supposedly

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the original sources, the original texts, right, the Greek, the Hebrew,

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and then we could we could purge the Church of

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all of its accretions, all of its man made traditions,

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all of its bogus ideas and doctrines that had that

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had crept in over the centuries. Now, as Orthodox, we

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do not believe either the Roman Catholic doctrine or the

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Protestant doctrine, so we will agree that there are problems

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on both sides. And one thing I'm going to recommend

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to you that shows this the same point about basically

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falling on two sides of the same coin, is the

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book by doctor phil Schard Church gives Them a Papacy. Now,

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the best part of this book, which you can still

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get online Amazon, I think has it pretty cheap, is

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the chapter about I think it's the last chapter about

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the Trinity affecting Rome and how the papal doctrines are

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connected to the philioque right, because again, absolute divine simplicity

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conditions the entire Roman scheme. And the reason I recommend

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that on the Protestant stream that we're talking about is

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because it's going to be the same issue in Protestantism,

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except on the other side of the dialectic. So whereas

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in Rome the papacy begins to be viewed as necessary

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because of error on the Holy Spirit and then thus

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basically not understanding the power of the Holy Spirit to

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guide the Church within history Pentecost right because of an

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error quite literally on the doctrine of the Holy Spirit,

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you're going to have a displacement of the doctrine of

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how man understands and perceives doctrine in history. So what

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happens is that Rome sets up this external juridical means

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by which we supposedly know doctrine and theology, and the

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papacy is supposedly the solution to this. We get the

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idea of the great imperial God, Emperor of the Pope,

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who makes the final decisions, supposedly, and that's the only

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way to know what's true or false. Now, if you

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know anything about basic epistemology, you know that this just

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moves the problem back of stuff, doesn't it. There's no

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insurance policy that you know that you're interpreting the papacy correctly.

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In the twentieth century, papacy bears that out perfectly, because

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nobody is sure what to do with Vatican two, and

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there's a million different interpretations of Ettikan two. So so

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much for the easy, simple jurisdictional perfection interpretation of the papacy,

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and wider Catholks believe that because they believe in classical foundationalism.

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This is a view of epistemology that is connected to

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classical apologetics and approaches to anthropology and epistemology, and it's

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connected ultimately as well to tonism. And we're going to

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see that. Of course, in the Protestant tradition, the early Protestants,

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they continue all this, right, they continue classical foundationalism, they

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continue the classical apologetics. They have the same epistemology. Basically,

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there's a good book on this about similarities between Calvin

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and Aquinas, because it's something it's called Calvin and Aquinas.

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I read that many many years ago, back when I

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was a Calvinist. And the point being is that the

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anthropology that you get in Protestantism is not really any

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different than the anthropology that you get in Rome, except

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that they see the fall is basically different and having

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different effects. So you get a little bit more fleshed

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out anthropology and scholastic speculations. I cannot get this right

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without light shine off of it. All. Right, here we go.

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I have to hold it like this down here, right,

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So we're going to see that Orthodoxy has a different

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view here on all these and also has a different

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view of anthropology that is neither Roman nor Protestant. So

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a couple more terms we want to keep in mind here.

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We don't believe in classical foundationalism because that's essentially an

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empirical view that would arise after Aquinas in terms of

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how man knows God and does theology. Hence we get

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natural theology. Hence we get the idea of we can

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look at the natural world and we can reason back

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to a generic first cause a right, the generic creator.

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In Roman theology, we're gonna call this an analogia us

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right now, there's a corollary in Protestantism called analogia fe day. Okay,

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So these are two more terms we want to be

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familiar with because they have a lot of impact on

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the history of Western theology. And what again, I want

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to show you consistently. And the reason I'm bringing up

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both Rome and Protestants here is because it falls on

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two sides of a coin. So the analogy of being,

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this is the tonistic idea again that created order. You

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can reason back through cosmological succession to a first cause. Right,

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this is the whole aerosol first cause stuff. And since

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all things possess all things possessed being, there must have

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been a first being, and it's a supreme being, some

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kind of generic supreme being. This is all the garbage

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traditional classical apologetics of aquinas in the Western tradition, which

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led directly to atheism, because those arguments are bad arguments. Now,

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in contrast to this, the Protestants came up with a

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different idea of how man knows and approaches God, because

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they have a different anthropology, and they have a different

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conception of the fall, they have a different conception of salvation,

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different conception of what grace is and how man is saved,

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and so likewise, knowing God required for them a different approach,

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which they called the analogia fide or the analogy of faith. So,

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because man has fallen, he can't really reason from the

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natural order properly back to some first cause or some

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creator cause. Instead, he needs revelation precisely because of what

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we might call the noetic effects of sin, this is

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the mental right effects of sin upon humankind, and because

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they're so severe in the Protestant tradition, when we speak

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of Luther or Calvin or the Calvinist tradition or the

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Puritan tradition. We have to understand where this theology leads us, right,

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and we're going to see that this doesn't work. So

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what happens in the Protestant view. We're going to speak

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classically here of the Reformed tradition, the Presbyterian tradition, the

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Calvinist tradition, and also by extension, we could apply it

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to the Lutheran tradition as well. The noadic effects of sin,

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this is the mental effects of sin, and they are

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such that human beings cannot properly interpret the natural world

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without revealed information about the natural, namely scripture. So this

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leads to solo scriptura. The effects, the extreme effects of

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sin after the fall, have so damaged human nature, catch

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that human nature, that human nature itself is almost sinful.

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Now you get different approaches to this. Now, Luther writes

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a book called Bondage of the Will, where essentially he

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affirms this. He affirms the Manichean doctrine that human nature

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is inherently sinful. He says, man is an ass that's

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either written by God or the devil. So he explicitly

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denies the power the energy of a natural human will

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in mankind. Likewise, Calvinism, although it affirms the goodness of

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the human will, in most cases, the human will has

250
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no ability whatsoever to move towards God. It is dead

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in sin. Man has no natural ability at all. It's

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been destroyed as a result of the fall, and hence

253
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their doctrine of total depravity. Now, total depravity doesn't just

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affect the movement of man's will and conversion, it also

255
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affects how he interprets scripture. This leads to the doctrine

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of the fallibility of man in interpreting scripture. And what happens,

257
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of course, is that this is one of the chief

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reasons that they reject the infallibility of the papacy, because

259
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of the noeedic effects of sin. There's no such thing

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as an infallible interpreter. But now both of these problems

261
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run into Both of these positions run into a little

262
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bit of a problem when we consider the fact that

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the noeedic effects of sin also seem to affect the

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believer in interpreting the scripture too, don't they Well, yes

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they do. If the effects of sin are such that,

266
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as the Westminster Confession of the Calvinists say, even after conversion,

267
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sin is still affecting you throughout your life daily, right

268
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the way that even if you try to interpret the scriptures,

269
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you're still dealing with the noetic effects of sin, even

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if you've been regenerated now. But the problem is that

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you don't ever then get to any potential certitude or

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what we might call infallible certitude. Doesn't matter what you

273
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put in whatever interchangeable terms you want, The noedic effects

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of sin already conditioned the impossibility of certitude when it

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comes to understanding scriptures or relationship with God, because ultimately

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you don't even know if the psychological subjective belief that

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you have that your quote saved or the one of

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the elect is not a delusion. And many of the

279
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Puritans suffered with this psychological delusion. And what do the

280
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Protestants say, Well, they just had to fall back on Well,

281
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the spirit will assure you if you're elect. Okay, but

282
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how do I know, Well, if you bear the fruits,

283
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if you bear the works worthy of repentance. Well, but

284
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how do I know I'm not bearing dead works that

285
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I think are true works? Right? You see, So there's

286
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:46,000
this never ending sort of introspective pietistic lose yourself in gobbledegook.

287
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When this is all because of the errors of Protestantism

288
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based around faulty human anthropology. They have the wrong anthropology

289
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and they have the wrong anthropology because they departed from

290
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what the Church had already established in terms of the

291
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medical councils. In terms of Christology. You cannot have proper

292
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:11,119
Biblical orthodox anthropology without the right Christology, because that's how

293
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we are. That's how the Church has fleshed out what

294
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proper anthropology is through the centuries of the council's debating

295
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and settling christological disputes. And because and the reason for

296
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that is because the christological disputes solidify the Biblical revealed

297
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tradition about what it is to be human and what

298
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the fall is and what Christ did in the incarnation.

299
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That's why we're going to see, for example, that the

300
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,200
Council of Ephesus, we'll talk about the deifying flesh of

301
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,039
the Eucharist. Christ deified his flesh and the incarnation, and

302
00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:53,599
then by extension in the Lord Supper, the Eucharist, we

303
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,720
participate in that deified humanity. Now that's not at all

304
00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:01,839
believed by any Protestant sect out there, and I don't

305
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:04,799
care about Anglicans and all their speculation. That doesn't matter

306
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,039
because it's all the same nonsense. It's all the same gobbledygoog.

307
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But we want to start there because we already see

308
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from the outset that the systems of whatever form of

309
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,680
Protestantism right, or whatever form of Catholicism it's contrasted to,

310
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they really exist. Prot exists as a kind of negation

311
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of Rome. It doesn't exist as a historical phenomenon that

312
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,200
has a lineage that it can trace back, because as

313
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,000
soon as we start going into the ecumenical councils, all

314
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,039
those ecumenical councils refute every aspect of protestantsm across the board.

315
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They believe in tradition, they believe in the real presence

316
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:49,880
of the Eucharists. They believe in icons, they believe in

317
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,480
relics of the Saints. They believe in confession to a priest.

318
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:56,160
They believe in the visible body of the Church. They

319
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,799
believe in they believe in a historical succession of the Church.

320
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They believe in oral tradition, they believe in the episcopate, uh,

321
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,519
they believe in basically any anything but Protestantism. There's there's

322
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:11,279
nothing about the first millennium of the Church that is

323
00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,880
Protestant except for the heresies. And this is what's amazing

324
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:18,880
and why everybody, for the most part who really delves

325
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,880
into church history in the first thousand years of the

326
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,599
Church Fathers will usually convert either to Roman orthodoxy is

327
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,880
because they realize that, uh, they didn't teach Protestanism, and

328
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,759
in fact, the same heresies that the early Church Fathers

329
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,839
battled pop up in Protestantism. For example, example, Jerome wrote

330
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:44,240
against heretics who devaught, denied the relics, right, who denied

331
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the goodness of the sacramental aspects of creative, creative creation

332
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and the created order. Right. Jerome has multiple treatises against this.

333
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,440
Jerome has treatises defending the perpetual virginity of Mary. All right,

334
00:26:56,519 --> 00:26:58,440
So if you're new to the Church Fathers and you

335
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,599
start reading that, you're like, WHOA, You know, I wasn't

336
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,200
really expecting this. I myself was Calvinist, and Calvinists all

337
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,039
hold Augustine in high regard because they thought he taught

338
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920
the doctrines of grace. Right, Apparently that's all that matters

339
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,119
is as long as you get this doctrine, this generic

340
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,279
idea of the doctrine of grace correctly, that's true salvation

341
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,599
is actually having a proper understanding. So it's like a

342
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,759
rational mental state that is true faith, which is defined

343
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:29,599
as a proper understanding of salvation by faith alone, through grace,

344
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,759
by faith through grace, etcetera. Exactly what that means, well,

345
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:38,920
that requires a whole bunch of scholastic litigation and reading

346
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,359
giant Puritan tones to try to figure this out. And

347
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,480
then hopefully you're not deceiving yourself by thinking that you're

348
00:27:46,519 --> 00:27:51,759
one of the elect when you're not. So again, it's

349
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:54,359
not hard to figure out when you do begin to

350
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,960
delve into the Church Fathers that although these so called

351
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:06,519
Protestant Reformers wanted to maintain Orthodoxy so called, they end

352
00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:10,240
up messing up on the doctrines of christology and human

353
00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:13,559
nature and they don't even know it. And that's because

354
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,160
Protestantism essentially arose out of an attempt to go back

355
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,359
to Augustine. And it's that simple. But that only works

356
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,519
if Augustine was fundamentally correct on most of his points,

357
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and he wasn't right. That's why orthodoxy is universal. Orthodoxy

358
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,279
believes in the common ideas of the Church fathers. We

359
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,680
don't exalt one guy. We don't exalt the Bishop of Rome,

360
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:40,160
we don't exalt Augustine, we don't exalt one guy over

361
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,039
there acquit us to be our so called pre eminent theologians.

362
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:50,519
That's not universal, that is local, that is that is

363
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:53,880
not that is fundamentally contradictory to what we would say

364
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,759
about the Catholicity of the Church, which is ironic because

365
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:03,799
both Protestantism and Romanism to try to somehow claim Catholicity anyway.

366
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:08,039
So we start with the notion of how do we

367
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:12,160
know what's true? And we mentioned solo scriptura. Well, it's

368
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:18,000
not very difficult to break apart the idea of solo scriptura,

369
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:20,880
even from scripture itself. Scripture itself does not tell us

370
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,759
which texts were supposed to be in the canon. And

371
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:27,599
anybody who's read anything about the history of canonicity or

372
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,200
the compiling of the text into what would become the

373
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,039
Bible knows that this was done over many centuries in

374
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:38,079
the early Church. Now we don't have, for example, a

375
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:44,240
statement that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.

376
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:50,720
The apostle there's no biblical statement to prove that. It's

377
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:55,440
a aspect of tradition that went into the decision of

378
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,359
the Church fathers to include Matthew's Gospel in the can Now,

379
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:02,799
that wasn't the only reason that Matthew was included in

380
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,519
the canon. It was included because it was handed down

381
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:09,119
in certain bishoprics and known to be authentic. So there's

382
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:14,279
a liturgical aspect of canonicity which no Protestant knows or understands,

383
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,359
which is that if they were going to have these

384
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,119
synods and councils to determine which text would make it

385
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:26,640
into the canon, it would require more than just some

386
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:28,640
guy reading it and saying, I feel like this was

387
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,920
written by the apostles and it aligns with the Restroscripture

388
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,680
because I read the other parts of scripture. That's presupposing

389
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,480
what the scripture is, and that's what's in question, right.

390
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,279
So there's multiple synods that are happening throughout the first

391
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:45,400
several centuries of the Church. We don't have to just

392
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:48,640
point out Roman Catholics always say the Bible was the

393
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,799
decision was made by the fourth and fifth centuries by

394
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,759
the Roman Church. No it wasn't. It was longer than that,

395
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,720
and there was not even a definite canon by the

396
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,599
fourth and fifth centuries in the entire imperi. So it's many, many,

397
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:08,319
many centuries debating when the normative canon would be settled.

398
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,720
And even still when you factor in the idea of

399
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,559
tradition oral tradition, there's still minor variances. Even amongst Apostolic

400
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,200
churches to this day, there are still divergences. You know,

401
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,559
the Slavonic canon is a little bit different than other canons,

402
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,960
and that's because we don't have the sole scripture review.

403
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,559
That's not a problem in our church and our tradition,

404
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:34,000
but it is a problem in Protestantism. So the more

405
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,640
uneducated versions of Protestantism, in response to these kinds of issues,

406
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,920
they'll fall back on stuff like King James only, which

407
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,359
you know, is really really absurd, but it doesn't even

408
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:50,839
really deserve to be to be dealt with. But sticking

409
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,240
to the main point, one of the things that would

410
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,680
go into, for example, the decision of canonicity would be

411
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:04,400
whether it had Apostolic pedigree, whether whether the church fathers

412
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,559
felt like it could be attached to one of the

413
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:11,759
apostles like Matthew, whether it had been read in the electionaries.

414
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:14,079
This is something Protestants don't anything about. But from the

415
00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:16,160
early stays of the church, because the church comes out

416
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,440
of temple slash synagogue worship, they had what were called

417
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,920
electionaries and electionaries or old collections of texts to be

418
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,359
read in the church services, essentially a liturgical type document,

419
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,559
and a lot of those electionaries had ancient readings in them. Okay,

420
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:35,279
So it's not just a question of let's go back

421
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:37,400
to the ancient church and see who had the most

422
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,200
copies of Matthew's Gospel. Right. There wasn't just written copies

423
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,200
of Matthew's Gospel. It was also in the electionaries. It

424
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,480
was also in the liturgy, the daily readings. It was

425
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,200
also in church fathers. Church fathers would copy, you know,

426
00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:53,720
proof texts in their writings. Okay. So all of this

427
00:32:55,359 --> 00:33:00,880
goes into the decisions of canonicity over many centuries. And

428
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,720
I will give you for example, there's a Protestant scholar

429
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:07,920
named Lee MacDonald who is a Baptist who wrote a

430
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,640
book about the formation of the Canon. And at the

431
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,880
back of Lee McDonald's Baptist book on the Formation of

432
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,400
the Canon, he is a Baptist liberal I should admit.

433
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,480
And I'm not signing him because I think he is

434
00:33:22,559 --> 00:33:29,680
a reliable person. I'm signing it because here is a Protestant.

435
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,359
Let me let's see here, let me pull it up

436
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:41,000
for you. Yeah, who charts all this out for you?

437
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,000
And he's like, well, you know what, I guess if

438
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,599
this is true, then we've got to be liberal, right,

439
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,599
So in other words, he in order to maintain the

440
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Baptist nonsense, where else could you go but be liberal

441
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,519
since this is true? Right, because there's no solo scriptura

442
00:33:54,920 --> 00:34:00,640
for centuries right now, we haven't answered this. Not just

443
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:05,720
be liberal. It's the orthodox tradition, right. Tradition is a

444
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480
big part of how this canon is brought to be,

445
00:34:09,559 --> 00:34:12,159
how it comes to be over many centuries, and you

446
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:16,039
can't divorce it from the oral tradition, the liturgy and

447
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:18,719
the decision of the church in terms of the bishops.

448
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,719
Wasn't a decision that the Bishop of Rome said if

449
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,519
this was all, if the early Church fathers had the

450
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,599
Vatican One view of papal infallibility, all anyone needed to

451
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:34,119
do was just ask Peter's magical Church of Rome, which

452
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,199
one is the true canon, and they would know. But

453
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,679
guess what they didn't know. Did you know Athanasius had

454
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,920
to go to Rome and argue with them about the

455
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,119
inclusion of the Book of Revelation. Yep. And Lee McDonald's

456
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:51,440
book in amazingly in the back includes all of the

457
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,599
differing canons of the church fathers. Right. So Origin had

458
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:59,559
a list, Athanasius has a list. Other church fathers have

459
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:04,280
a list. Right, So you can't just treat the church

460
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,000
fathers like solar scripturia, which is what Protestants do. They'll

461
00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:09,400
try to like mine the church fathers as if the

462
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:12,360
writings of the church fathers in just another version of

463
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,000
solar scripturial, like a very Talmudic type thing. No, because

464
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,280
they didn't have the same canon. So there's absolutely no

465
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:23,599
way for the Protestants to get out of this or

466
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,960
to figure this out. And I spent a long time

467
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:31,639
as a Protestant on this very question. I've read probably

468
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,880
fifteen books on this question from Protestant scholars and academics.

469
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,400
Another one I can recommend that will illustrate all of

470
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,840
this is the famous evangelical scholar F. F. Bruce's book

471
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,360
The Canon of Scripture. Now. Elf FF Bruce is a

472
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,079
scholar who is a conservative evangelical. So we had Lee

473
00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:54,719
McDonald with his sort of liberal leanings because he couldn't

474
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,000
figure out how to make sense of this. And here

475
00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:02,679
is a conservative evangelical and guess what his book makes

476
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,320
all the same points I'm making to you. These are

477
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:17,199
Protestant evangelicals who are realizing, Oh, the retard Baptist answer

478
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:20,800
as to how we got the Bible is retarded. It's

479
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,440
not true. So what do they do, Well, they just

480
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,239
presuppose that the spirit guided the church. Oh no, wait

481
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,360
a minute. Now, if the spirit can guide the church

482
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,119
in the decision of the canon, maybe the spirit can

483
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,039
guide the church in other decisions. Has it ever occurred

484
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:47,159
to you as a Protestant that maybe that's the case. Well,

485
00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:53,280
it is, okay, So there's no there's absolutely no solution

486
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,320
to this as a product. And in fact, when we

487
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:04,519
read Second Thessalonians two what is it thirteen fifteen? Yeah, fifteen. Therefore, brethren,

488
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:07,199
stand fast and the traditions that I delivered to you,

489
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,360
whether oral or written. So Paul and Second thessaloni Is

490
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,920
two fifteen commands the church to continue to keep the

491
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,400
orld traditions because there was no Bible at this point.

492
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,199
Do you understand that there was not a Bible. They

493
00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:22,719
were using the most of the time, the Septuagint, the

494
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,920
Old Testament Greek. Most of the quotations of the New

495
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,400
Testament from the Old Testament are from the Septusient, not all,

496
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,920
but most, and there are many dudo canonical citations. By

497
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,119
the way, the New Testament references the Deuial Kennon. Did

498
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:40,280
you know that Protestants, Yes, it does in many places,

499
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,400
and so do all the Church Fathers. Now, I remember

500
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,920
when I really dove into the Church Fathers back when

501
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,599
I was about twenty three twenty four, and I started

502
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:56,559
noticing all this this. It really shook me because you know,

503
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:59,800
I had spent many many years in and apologetics as

504
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,199
a Protestant, you know, really trying to hammer down this stuff,

505
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,679
and realizing that if we base our belief system as

506
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:10,480
a Protestant on the Bible, it also requires that there

507
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:14,719
be some kind of guidance or certitude about knowing that

508
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,599
we have the right canon, because guess what, not everybody has.

509
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,000
Everybody has the same canon of scripture, do they. The

510
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:25,280
Protestant canon is different from the Catholic The Protestant canon

511
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,519
is different from the Orthodox canon. So if the Bible

512
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:32,000
alone is true, then it requires that we be certain

513
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:34,519
about which Bible, don't we right? So how do we

514
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:36,199
know that we have the right Bible? Well, we assume

515
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,000
that the Holy Spirit properly guided the Church to collect

516
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:44,440
these documents together. But guess what. This decision, as everybody knows,

517
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:48,840
was made hundreds of centuries after the time of the Apostles. Now,

518
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,800
if you read my essay The Biblical Nature of Sacred

519
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,440
Tradition and jas Analysis, you will see where I go

520
00:38:56,559 --> 00:39:02,760
into extensive detail about numerous examples of tradition, not just

521
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,559
in the New Testament or in Paul's you know, admonitions

522
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,719
or whatever. For example, if we think about the fact

523
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,320
that from Genesis to the time of Moses, nothing that

524
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,000
we know of was written down. It was an oral

525
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:20,400
tradition that was handed on from the patriarchs through the

526
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,559
Family of God. Essentially at that time that was in

527
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:26,880
covenant with God. The other nations, pagan nations, as far

528
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,039
as we know, did not have the revelation of the

529
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,199
covenant of God except for maybe a couple examples of

530
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,679
Melchizedic or job. So from the time of you know, Adam,

531
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:45,639
eve Seth Noah down through the patriarchs Joseph, Abraham. We

532
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:48,360
don't know that any of that was necessarily written because

533
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,960
the Torah is from the time of Moses, which is

534
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:59,199
a significant number of millennia right after Adam. So for

535
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,920
all of these centuries God can preserve the revelation. Orally,

536
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,960
that means we know that there's nothing that's inherently flawed

537
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:11,639
or there's nothing outside of the power of God keeping

538
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:17,000
him from preserving oral tradition. God can do anything he wants.

539
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,320
You know, what does the Angel say, is there anything

540
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,840
impossible for God? No, of course not. So there's nothing

541
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,639
inherently wrong about oral revelation being preserved from Adam to

542
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,239
Moses and Joshua. So when we serve at the Old Testament,

543
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,239
we realized that all the patriarchs operated through this kind

544
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,400
of infallible oral tradition, that they maintained a right. So that,

545
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:44,519
by the way, shows that they weren't purely infallible, totally

546
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:46,840
depraved human beings because they were able to preserve this

547
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:55,960
revelation they were certain about it. Now we also when

548
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,480
we read about for example, Abraham building an altar, we

549
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:01,079
know that he wasn't given a written textbook to instruct

550
00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:02,840
him how to do this. But he had at least

551
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,079
some sense of direct revelation with God or something of

552
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:08,079
that nature, or he knew in terms of the oral

553
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:10,760
tradition that had been passed on him how to do this.

554
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,519
So even ceremonial aspects of the way Abraham acted or

555
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:20,119
keeping of the Sabbath, for example, even that preceded the

556
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,440
written text of the Mosaic Law. So when we keep

557
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,480
that in mind, then we can move into like the

558
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:30,840
historical period, for example, and we see second second Chronicles

559
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,199
twenty nine or Hezekyah talks about stationing the leevites in

560
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:37,639
the house of the Lord with symbols, string instrument, harps,

561
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:42,599
according to the commandment of David, Goad, the Goad, the

562
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:45,280
king seer, and Nathan the prophet. For thus was the

563
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,199
commandment of the Lord by his prophets. The leevites stood

564
00:41:48,199 --> 00:41:51,039
with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets.

565
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,559
We do not have a written record of what David

566
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:58,679
commanded concerning these things. Furthermore, it is also clear that

567
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,400
King David flourished some two hundred fifty years before the

568
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,039
time of King has Akiah, so it might be argued

569
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,559
that this was David's opinion concerning worship, but we know

570
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:12,039
that God doesn't typically tolerate human opinions in worship. So

571
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:14,440
this is the irony of kind of the regulative principle

572
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,239
of many Protestants is that the way that has Akaia

573
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,480
knew this was because of the world tradition. So again

574
00:42:21,679 --> 00:42:24,199
I'm not saying that that means we just make up stuff.

575
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,800
It's rather that there was a body of doctrines handed

576
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,519
down even at this time, which was being passed on.

577
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,079
And yes, it does get corrupted. Jeremiah talks about the

578
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,480
corruption of human opinions being added on, and it's the

579
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:39,679
same thing that Jesus rebukes in his day about the

580
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,840
scribes and the Pharisees. But the fact that there were

581
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,039
corruptions does not mean that there wasn't still a solid,

582
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:48,679
true revelation from God. The mere fact that we have

583
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,320
the Old Testament in our scriptures shows that. So the

584
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,280
point here is that for the Protestants, for the Evangelicals

585
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,679
who aren't aware of this, we start to realize that

586
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:02,719
out the Old Testament, there's many examples of traditions that

587
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,519
are cited in what Protestants believe is the word of

588
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:10,559
God that are not part of the canon. We read

589
00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:12,880
in numbers twenty one, there's a citation of the books

590
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,360
of the Wars of the Lord. We read in Joshua ten,

591
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,159
the Book of the Just, we read in Second Kings

592
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:24,239
about the Book of the Just, we read about, the

593
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,119
Book of Nathan the Prophet, we read about Let's see,

594
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:32,480
there's a whole bunch of these, the books of Ohias

595
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:37,320
the seal Anite, the Book of Ido the Seer, They're

596
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,559
all quoted throughout the Old Testament. And nobody knows what

597
00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:44,840
these books are. They're lost to history, but they were

598
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,960
not viewed and at that time as lost to history, right,

599
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,960
they were cited. So those books had true tradition that,

600
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:56,360
in God's providence, did not make it into the canon.

601
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,360
But the point is that there was oral tradition, were

602
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:06,280
extra canonical traditions that were true. And this is the

603
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,719
same attitude of the Church today. So this is why,

604
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,679
for example, in John twenty it says Jesus did many things,

605
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,960
and he did countless signs in the presence of his disciples,

606
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,400
which are not written in this book John's Gospel, but

607
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:21,199
the ones that I have written for you are written

608
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,079
that you might believe that Jesus is the son of God.

609
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:28,639
And he says later in John twenty one, if there

610
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:30,519
are many other things that if Jesus did, if they

611
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:34,079
were already written down, I would suppose that the world

612
00:44:34,159 --> 00:44:36,119
itself could not contain the books that could be written.

613
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,239
So the point being is that you'll see examples of this.

614
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,880
For example, Paul in Acts will quote Jesus in a

615
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,519
sex in a text that we don't have any reference

616
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:51,800
to Jesus saying it is more blessed to give than

617
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,480
to receive, but Paul quotes our Lord as saying this.

618
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,599
Now we'll see other examples like, for exa, a protest

619
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,840
will cite Acts twenty twenty seven about the full Council

620
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,840
of God, which they assume means only written texts. But

621
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,400
it doesn't because when Paul preached, for example, an Acts,

622
00:45:11,079 --> 00:45:13,159
we read about the story where he preached all night long,

623
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,320
and you know, somebody fell asleep and fell out of

624
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,159
the window and broke their neck basically, and Paul healed them.

625
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,559
That entire sermon is the Council of God. We don't

626
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:27,199
have that sermon, but he preached an entire sermon. You see.

627
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,320
So the Apostolic preaching was authoritative and it was inspired.

628
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,320
It wasn't just the written text of Paul. It was

629
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,880
anything Paul taught, because Paul had the Holy Spirit. Now

630
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,119
this is I'm making these points because these are points

631
00:45:41,119 --> 00:45:44,679
that Protestants don't usually think about. That's why we read,

632
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,639
for example, for this reason, without ceasing, Paul says, because

633
00:45:48,639 --> 00:45:50,639
when you receive the Word of God, you heard it

634
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:52,840
from us, and you welcomed it not as the word

635
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,440
of man, but as it is the word of truth,

636
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,559
which effectively works in you who believe. That's first Essaloni's

637
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:01,320
two thirteen. So paul oral preaching, he calls the word

638
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,519
of God. You see, because Protestants have all these dumb

639
00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:05,800
things where they try to say, oh, it's only the

640
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,440
written thing Paul was only reciting. Was he just reciting

641
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,400
the Bible? Of course not. No, he was preaching orally

642
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,440
for hours from the Old Testament, right and whatever gospel

643
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,400
he might have had. And here specifically and for Assonians

644
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,880
two thirteen, he identifies his oral teaching with the Word

645
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,039
of God. So, in other words, the oral teaching of

646
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,519
the apostles was also infallible. And this is why he

647
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:35,079
commands the Thessalonians to continue the oral traditions. He says

648
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:38,000
this also to Timothy. He says to Timothy, hold fast

649
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,760
to the pattern of sound words which you heard from

650
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,760
me oral that the good thing which was committed to

651
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,679
you will be kept by the Holy Spirit dwells in us.

652
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:48,199
So Paul believes that the passing on and he ordained

653
00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:51,440
Timothy right by laying his hands on him Apostolic succession.

654
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,599
And then he tells Timothy, lay hands on men after you,

655
00:46:55,079 --> 00:46:58,320
but not hastily. Apostolic succession. And he says that the

656
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,760
Holy Spirit will keep that inheritance, that will keep that tradition.

657
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:08,159
That's Apostolic succession. Second Timothy one thirteen. He also says

658
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,719
to Timothy and Second Timothy two, you, therefore, my son,

659
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,880
be strong in the grace of Christ. And the things

660
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,199
that you have heard from me, these commit to faithful

661
00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:19,760
men who will teach others. Did you hear that the

662
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,320
things you heard, the oral teaching that I gave you,

663
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,480
commit that to other men, and then they'll pass it down.

664
00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:29,360
That's apostoltics succession. And that's the oral tradition being passed down.

665
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:31,400
That's what all the church fathers teach. They do not

666
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:36,320
teach sola scriptureup and even if they did, which they don't,

667
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,840
but even if they did, you don't have the right canon.

668
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,320
No Protestant believes in the Deutero canon. They all follow

669
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,199
Luther and Calvin and rejecting it. So, by the way,

670
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,559
you wonder why there's higher criticism in Protestant churches across

671
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:55,760
the whole world, Well, maybe because your founders saw fit

672
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,639
to toss out books they didn't like.

673
00:47:59,800 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: Me.

674
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:04,199
Speaker 1: It's not too far to go from that to denying

675
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,719
the rest of the canon. Therefore, brethren, hold faster the

676
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,159
traditions that you were taught by me, whether oral or

677
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,079
by my epistle seking this on. He's two fifteen. Now.

678
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:16,039
The command then is for both to be passed on,

679
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:18,719
and both are the word of God. Peter also says this.

680
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,159
He says, you have been born again, not a corruptible seed,

681
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:23,480
but through the word of God, a person which lives

682
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,079
and abides in you forever. And he says the word

683
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:28,880
of God is that which was preached to you. And again,

684
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,840
that wasn't just reciting Bible texts, right, because they weren't

685
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,199
sol scriptura. They didn't have a canon. Yet this is

686
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,639
how stupid it is for Protestants to use all these

687
00:48:37,679 --> 00:48:40,519
texts as if it presupposed soul scriptura. There wasn't a

688
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:43,320
canon yet when they were writing this. John hadn't even

689
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:48,119
written The Apocalypse. So Peter understands that the oral preaching

690
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:50,960
he did was infallible and it was aspired revelation from

691
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,039
God just as much as the written texts were. So

692
00:48:54,119 --> 00:48:56,239
you'll get Protestant. Even James White will admit this, and

693
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,039
some of the debates that he does. But this is

694
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,440
when you count. When you factor in the fact that

695
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,960
other texts of the Bible had not been written yet,

696
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:08,400
then the whole Council of God doesn't make any sense

697
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,920
on their Protestant argument, How could it be the whole

698
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,480
Council of God that Paul is instructing them to follow,

699
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,360
namely solo scriptura, when the whole Council of God had

700
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,400
not been revealed yet it's retarded. We read in Colossians four,

701
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:24,719
salute the brethren who are at Laodicea Nymphis and the

702
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,840
church that is in his house. And when the epistle

703
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,920
shall have been read with you read the Epistle to

704
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,880
the Laodoceans We don't have Paul's Epistle to the Laodioceans. Okay,

705
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,880
so even aspects of what Paul taught or wrote have

706
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,320
been lost to history in God's providence, Now is that

707
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,760
part of the whole council of the Word of God.

708
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,239
Protestant now say why he got lost? It doesn't matter.

709
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:50,880
But again, the point is that there was no canon.

710
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,360
They didn't have a canon. Right. You can't read into

711
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,559
the mind of the first century Church five hundred years,

712
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:01,320
six hundred and seve hundred years before canon came about

713
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:05,480
and assume that they're teaching sol scriptura. They're not. Jesus

714
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:09,280
doesn't teach script Jesus refers in many cases to oral tradition,

715
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:13,000
and in many cases in the New Testament, the deteral

716
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:17,599
Canon is cited. Now, these basic facts completely destroy the

717
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:21,960
Protestant position of sola scriptura, like there's no refuge for

718
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,079
any of it, because the entire thing is erected on

719
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:33,320
stupid assumptions, namely the assumption that anytime I read something

720
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,440
in the New Testament is talking about sola scriptura, which

721
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,719
is the sixty six books of the Protestant Canon that

722
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:49,920
I presuppose. I mean, that's so stupid now we have,

723
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:54,559
let's say, one example from the Early Church, which is

724
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:59,239
the Council of Gangra. And I believe the council it's

725
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,400
a local syna, but it just it gives you an

726
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,159
example of the Early Church in the three hundreds. And

727
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:07,920
I believe the Council of Gangra is reaffirmed at later

728
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,079
ecumenical synods if I'm going for memory. But this is

729
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:15,239
a local synod of many bishops of the Early Church,

730
00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:19,000
and again about three twenty five. And it goes on

731
00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:23,599
to talk about the necessity of keeping the oral traditions,

732
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:28,639
of keeping all of what was handed down, and it

733
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,800
talks about discipline in the church and the tradition of

734
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,519
discipline in the Church. It was already, by the way

735
00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:36,159
the Apostolic Canons. If you read the Church Fathers, or

736
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:37,599
if you have the Church Fathers say, you'll see that

737
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,280
the volume on the Apostolic Canons, this is the normative

738
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,920
approach of the Early Church to doctrinal questions that came up.

739
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:50,320
By the way, it excludes effeminate dresses, for men don't

740
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:56,920
dress eminently, but it says, make sure in all things

741
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,400
that what we've been delivered in the Holy Scriptures and

742
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:05,119
in the APIs traditions are observed in the churches. Now

743
00:52:05,199 --> 00:52:08,960
you can go with the stupid you know, seven day

744
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,800
av in this type nonsense of saying, oh, well that's

745
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,719
three hundred. That's around when Constantine he messed the church up.

746
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,320
That's when it got messed up. I s when the

747
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,760
system of Antichrist entered the church. Well, Jesus says, the

748
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,440
gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. And

749
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,760
there were no Baptists in the third third century, There

750
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,400
were no Baptists in the fourth century, there were no

751
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,320
Baptists in the fifth century. There were no Baptists in

752
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,559
the sixth century, except for heretics who had very similar

753
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:40,400
views to the Baptists, right, the Rebaptizers as they originally

754
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,880
called the Anabaptists. Right. So the early Church in countless examples,

755
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,119
and again you can read my essay just for a

756
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:57,440
few examples will affirm the necessity of keeping the Apostolic traditions. Now,

757
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,280
if we look at for example, Nicea, which as an

758
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,079
important canon excuse me, counsel, when it came to determining

759
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:16,199
the canon, it would it would be important. We do

760
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:24,400
not find anything resembling Protestantism in the many Canons of Nicea.

761
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:31,039
We find Constantine making Nicia civil law. According to page

762
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:35,719
eight of the chef set, we find baptismal regeneration taught.

763
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,360
In Canon two, we're told that there's no immediate episcopacy

764
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:45,280
allowed for converts. Episcopacy that's bishoprics. Now, every Baptist, by

765
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,800
the way, it will affirm that they believe in the Niceno,

766
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,119
constant and Apolitan creed because it teaches the deity of Christ.

767
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,320
But now wait a minute, all these people who they

768
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,079
believe teach the deed of Christ, they teach all this

769
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,840
Catholic stuff that I'm talking about, and Athletic can be Orthodox, right,

770
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:07,800
we are Orthodox Catholics. Canon three talks about clerical celibacy,

771
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,599
that there was a widely established practice of clerical celibacy.

772
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:16,239
It also wasn't enforced by the way Roman Catholics. Canon

773
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,760
five talks about lynt and it talks about the Eucharist

774
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,880
as an offering. Canon six talks about the major Metropolitans

775
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,360
and the raising and lowering of certain jurisdictions, and how

776
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,280
it is a custom for the Bishop of Rome to

777
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,639
have the first among equals status. So, by the way,

778
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,559
every Orthodox person, for a thousand years knew what Canon

779
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:39,719
six of Nicia says and has nothing to do with

780
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:43,079
papal supremacy. What does it say is the reason for

781
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,559
Rome being mentioned a custom, a tradition. It doesn't say

782
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:53,440
anything about magical petrine supremacy. It says that Rome because

783
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,119
it's doubly apostolic. If you look at every Orthodox icon

784
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,039
of Rome, it's the Church of Rome, it's Peter and Paul,

785
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,679
and they're both equal holding of the church. That's why

786
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,400
Santa Renas calls it doubly apostolic. And he says it's

787
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,199
to be followed because they teach rightly. He doesn't say

788
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,960
it's magically delicious. He doesn't say that has a magical

789
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,480
terrorism of Matthew sixteen. No, it's called in Canon six

790
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:21,599
of Nicea a tradition. It's a tradition to have the

791
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,440
honor given to the Roman bishop and then after him. Likewise,

792
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,800
it says, did you know likewise, so listen to this.

793
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,400
The Bishop of Rome is to have jurisdiction like Alexandria,

794
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:39,199
and likewise Antioch and the other provinces retain their traditional privileges.

795
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:47,360
It's customary they have limited jurisdictions. The jurisdiction of Rome

796
00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:52,039
is likewise a limited jurisdiction of Antioch and the others.

797
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,559
And everybody who's honest with Nicia knows that they didn't

798
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:00,880
think Rome was what Vatican one says. Do you think

799
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,320
that at Vatican one, the exact same mindset of what's

800
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,280
going on at Nicia was that it translates. Of course

801
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,679
it doesn't. Do you think that, Nicea they thought that

802
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,960
the Bishop of Rome could depose anyone in the world.

803
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:21,000
Of course not. That's because he's a Roman patriarch. And

804
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:25,639
the Canon seven makes this clear. When Canon seven and

805
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:31,000
Icia says that it is a custom about the Bishop

806
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:37,119
of Jerusalem, these are customs. Canon eight is about the

807
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:43,639
ordination of novations being valid. In other words, all of

808
00:56:43,679 --> 00:56:46,719
this is a million miles away from anything Protestant or Baptist.

809
00:56:53,159 --> 00:57:01,519
Canon eleven is about the sacrifice of the Eucharist. Canon

810
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:03,760
twelve says that you can be in the military. There's

811
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,199
nothing Unchristian about being in the military, which disproves pacifists.

812
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:13,599
By the way. Canon thirteen is about ancient canon laws

813
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:17,519
that retain to the reception of the Eucharist from the

814
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:22,440
bishop at death. You know, any Baptists to do that.

815
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:28,960
I don't never heard of that. Let's see Canon eighteen

816
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:31,039
is about the offering of the body and blood of

817
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:34,519
Christ on the altar. Wow. Anyway, there's more canons, but

818
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:36,920
you get the point here. The point is that every

819
00:57:37,559 --> 00:57:41,800
Baptist on the one hand, or Protestant or whoever, doesn't

820
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,639
have to be out to somebody's using them as an example.

821
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:47,079
They will refer to Nicea as something that is the

822
00:57:47,679 --> 00:57:52,519
you know, the great pinnacle of church fathers, defending the

823
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:57,119
deity of Christ against arias right. And every Baptist believes

824
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:02,079
that Jesus is divine. Well, they're supposed to, and they

825
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,599
tend to believe in the creed of Nicea and Constantinople One,

826
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:12,880
hence the Niceno Constantinopolitan creed. But in fact, when we

827
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,199
read what the mindset of all of these Orthodox Catholics was,

828
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,079
they would not hesitate to call these people lunatics, idolators,

829
00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:29,000
and pagans, which the early Reformers did. So there's nothing

830
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:33,119
at all about this council and these canons that is

831
00:58:33,239 --> 00:58:38,760
all favorable to anything Protestant whatsoever. Now, in response to this,

832
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,559
most of the time the protests say, yes, we know

833
00:58:40,639 --> 00:58:43,719
that We don't care about your man made councils. Dude.

834
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,320
Now wait a minute, you don't care about man made councils.

835
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:53,360
But how the canon of Scripture come to be? Where

836
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,440
did it come from? It came from these councils, and

837
00:58:57,519 --> 00:59:02,039
not just one of them, many centuries. Well, I'm going

838
00:59:02,119 --> 00:59:04,840
to trust that God led these men to put the

839
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,159
can Wait wait a minute, you believe they're all idolators

840
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:13,000
and and and phonies. They're apostates, they're the Church of

841
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,519
Anti crash. But they put the Bible together. This is

842
00:59:16,519 --> 00:59:26,960
other utterly retarded. This is nonsense. Now I want to

843
00:59:28,039 --> 00:59:30,599
look here briefly at a couple more points on the

844
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:36,360
canon here. Uh, and I have reputation of the prostant

845
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,920
Canona Scripture, which is a very scholarly work that I

846
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,599
did about twelve years ago, ten years ago somewhere in there. Uh,

847
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:49,719
and we look through you know, if if let's tell

848
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,559
what I did in this this uh. This article was

849
00:59:53,400 --> 01:00:00,079
a Protestant, famous Protestant Ian Paisley who says that the

850
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,199
Jews did not accept the dudoconical books. Let's go with

851
01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:06,199
his first argument, they were not part of the oracles

852
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:08,960
committed unto them Romans three to two. Therefore they are

853
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,639
not written in Hebrew. This is false. Paisley makes no

854
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:16,360
distinction between Jews of the Diaspora and Palestinian Jews. Palsinian

855
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,800
Jews eventually rejected the Septuagent, which is the Greek version

856
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,519
of the Old Testament composed in the second third century

857
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:25,599
b c. At Alexandria. It is well known that the

858
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:30,679
Septuagent was the Bible of the Diaspora Jews of and

859
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,559
the Bible of all the early Church, the Old Testament Bible. Furthermore,

860
01:00:35,639 --> 01:00:39,480
it's also a fact that the Septuagent contained the Dudoconical books. So,

861
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:42,679
for example, if you look at Oxford Church historian Paul

862
01:00:42,719 --> 01:00:46,360
Johnson in his book History of Christianity quote, there was

863
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,199
already in the first century a huge Jewish diaspora in

864
01:00:50,199 --> 01:00:53,679
the Mediterranean, and they utilized the Greek adaptation of the

865
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:56,960
Old Testament, the Septugent, which was composed in Alexandria and

866
01:00:57,039 --> 01:01:00,920
used amongst the diaspora. Lee McDonald that are referenced earlier

867
01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:03,679
says in the formation of the Christian Biblical canon, it

868
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,119
is most likely that these dud Chonical books were considered

869
01:01:06,119 --> 01:01:08,679
by the Jewish community holy or sacred well before the

870
01:01:08,679 --> 01:01:11,920
time of Christ, and they were thus inherited from Judaism.

871
01:01:12,159 --> 01:01:13,639
There is evidence that at least some of the non

872
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:16,079
canonical books of Protestantism had their origin in the land

873
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:19,920
of Israel, and were translated and transported there from Israel

874
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,440
to Alexandria. Probably whether the Jews lived in significant numbers

875
01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:26,519
where they lived in Roman Empire. The grandson of Ben Syak,

876
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:29,079
that is, the writer of the book Ecclesiasticus, lets us

877
01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:31,639
know that he was translating for Jews in Alexandria. The

878
01:01:31,679 --> 01:01:35,639
New Testament also has countless allusions to the judo canonical books.

879
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,800
Did you hear that the New Testament has countless Of

880
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,360
course it does. Anybody who reads about it knows that

881
01:01:46,159 --> 01:01:49,239
the oldest collections of the Old Testament scriptures by the

882
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,400
early Church contain the Duchonic literature. Of course it does.

883
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:59,800
Fassett's Bible Dictionary the Protestant Text. Protestant Dictionary says apocrypha

884
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,679
the writings in the Septuagent first and second Ezra Tobad,

885
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,039
Judith Esther Wisdom, Ecclesiaskus, Barrack, Song of the Children, Susannah Bell,

886
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:11,960
and the Dragon. The Protestant in Nelson's Christian Dictionary says

887
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,199
the Septuagiant incorporates all of the Dudo chronical books, with

888
01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:18,840
the exception of Second Esdras, and they are not differentiated

889
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,960
from any of the other Old Testament books in the

890
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:26,559
Septuagent I mentioned F. F. Bruce earlier in his book

891
01:02:26,599 --> 01:02:30,840
Kenneth Scripture, he writes, whatever wording of Stephen's defense in

892
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,920
Acts seven may owe to the narrator, the cons consistency

893
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,719
with which the biblical quotations are read from Stephen in

894
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,119
Act seven are from the septuagent. As soon as the

895
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:43,719
Gospel was carried into the Greek speaking world, the Septuagint

896
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,239
came into its own as the sacred text to which

897
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,960
the preachers would appeal. It was used in the Greek

898
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:56,119
speaking synagogues throughout the Roman Empire. Protestant patristics scholar J. N. D. Kelly,

899
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,480
Anglican writes in his famous Early Christian Doctor's Book, it

900
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,199
should be of the Old Testament, thus admitted authoritative in

901
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:06,800
the Church, a different canon from the masoretic Palestinian Jewish canon.

902
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,719
Of course, it did, and the Protestants all follow the

903
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,400
Palestinian Jewish canon. It was always included with varying degrees

904
01:03:15,199 --> 01:03:18,239
in the so called apocrypha or the dudocononical books. This

905
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,239
is the reason for this is that the Old Testament

906
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,400
which passed into the hands of the Early Church was

907
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,000
not the masoretic Hebrew text, but the Greek text known

908
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,480
as the Subtuagin. There you go. F. F. Bruce writes,

909
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:32,880
Yeshua bin Syra was in Egypt in one thirty two BC,

910
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,320
and he translated his book The Wisdom of Ecclesiasticus or Syric,

911
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:41,119
from Hebrew into Greek. Lee MacDonald again writes that the

912
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,599
dudochroonical books were transported from Israel into from Hebrew and

913
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:48,119
into Greek at Alexandria, on and on and on and

914
01:03:48,159 --> 01:03:50,840
on and on. Charles Pfiffer's book in the Dead Sea

915
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:58,000
Scrolls on pages sixteen seventeen says all the same stuff. Now,

916
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,760
Ian Paisley, who I've chosen as just one Goufus evangelical

917
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,000
example of why he thinks he has the right Protestant canon.

918
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,719
His next argument was, the New Testament never quotes the

919
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,559
Deutero canon, and the Early Church never used it. This

920
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:20,199
is utterly retarded in idiotic. Ecclesiasticus is cited in John

921
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:25,239
Second John ten Ecclesiasticus eleven thirty one. Ecclesiasticus eleven eighteen

922
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,239
through twenty is cited as in Jesus's Parable of the

923
01:04:29,239 --> 01:04:33,840
Wealthy Farmer Luke twelve nineteen. Jesus' statements about the I

924
01:04:34,119 --> 01:04:36,559
making the whole body dark in Matthew six twenty two

925
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,480
are a reference to ecclesiastic As fourteen eight through eleven.

926
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:41,920
This is my article I wrote ten years ago. Wisdom

927
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,480
twelve and thirteen are exact parallels to Roma's one Do

928
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:48,599
you hear me? Wisdom twelve and thirteen exact parallels to

929
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:54,199
Roma's one. Wisdom two contains a lengthy prophecy of Christ. Wisdom, too,

930
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,199
is a lengthy prophecy of Christ, and the Church fathers

931
01:04:57,239 --> 01:05:00,519
all used it of Christ. Wh I think the Jews

932
01:05:00,599 --> 01:05:03,639
rejected the Judo canon because the Church fathers were using

933
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:06,599
it and the apostles were using it to prove Jesus.

934
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:11,159
In the Old Testament, Hebrews eleven five eleven thirty five

935
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:14,079
refers to women and children who refused to be delivered

936
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:16,800
from death and accepted martyrdom to achieve a better resurrection.

937
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:21,360
This is second Maccabe's Seven Dummies. Now there's a whole

938
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:26,320
bunch of more examples, but that should suffice. Let's see

939
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,199
from Protestant Jan D. Kelly again, it should be observed

940
01:05:29,199 --> 01:05:31,519
that the Old Testament, thus admitted as authoritative in the Church,

941
01:05:32,039 --> 01:05:35,119
was bulkier and more comprehensive than the Hebrew Canon. It

942
01:05:35,239 --> 01:05:41,760
was the Septuition. And let's see Nelson's Christian Dictionary once again. Protestant.

943
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,599
The early Church fathers Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria,

944
01:05:44,679 --> 01:05:49,400
Origin consistently cite the dudoconical books. Christians made extensive use

945
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,760
of them for apologetic purposes because of the text referred here.

946
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,119
They utilize them for the incarnation the logos the Son

947
01:05:57,159 --> 01:06:01,480
of God. However, the Reformation leaders were instrumental in completely

948
01:06:01,559 --> 01:06:05,559
rejecting the duo deudro canon and thus refuse to ascribe

949
01:06:05,559 --> 01:06:08,880
to them the status of Word of God. Now, anyone

950
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,360
who spent any time in the post Apostolic Fathers, whether

951
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:15,880
it's Clement Ignacious Origin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian,

952
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,320
they know you will know that they frequently cite the

953
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,639
decononical books. So it is athenacious. And these are all

954
01:06:22,639 --> 01:06:27,639
the church fathers who determined the canon. Right, So if

955
01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:30,360
some Guphas says, well who cares what the church father said, Well,

956
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,159
these are the people who determine the canon Guphus. That's

957
01:06:32,159 --> 01:06:38,039
why final Paisley argument. Ian Paisley says, the Synod of Laodicea,

958
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,320
the local synod which many Roman Catholics will refer to,

959
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:46,039
and the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon do not accept the

960
01:06:46,119 --> 01:06:50,639
dudo canon. Once again, Ian Paisley is completely idiotic and

961
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:55,760
knows nothing about what he's speaking. Laodicea was a regional synod,

962
01:06:56,239 --> 01:06:59,320
and it was actually a series of synods over many years.

963
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,199
And again, the canons, as we saw from Lee McDonald's

964
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,000
if you read his appendix in his book, there's a

965
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:06,840
whole list of all the different canon. There's canon, there's

966
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,639
all kinds of different canons. There's not one canon. So

967
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,440
there are some people who doubted the Book of Revelation.

968
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,280
There are people who doubted the Gospel of John. Many

969
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,880
thought the Gospel of John was gnostic, not universally, but

970
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:22,000
some thought this is dubious. Now we all know today

971
01:07:22,039 --> 01:07:25,480
that This is ridiculous. The Gospel John is not gnostic.

972
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,920
But there were some areas of the church in the

973
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,480
early Church period where people doubted it. People doubted the

974
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,800
Book of Revelation. They thought it was too crazy, too wild. Again,

975
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:40,840
Athanasius had to convince Rome to include Revelation. So it

976
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,239
really doesn't matter that Ian Paisley finds a list of

977
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,880
a canon in Laodicea where they're not mentioning the Duro canon. Secondly,

978
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,280
the fact that it's not mentioned in the normal list

979
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,360
doesn't mean that they didn't cite from it. That's why

980
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,239
it's called the Duduro canon, right. It doesn't even in

981
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:01,480
our churches. It's not accorded the same status as the

982
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,719
rest of the text, but it is part of the Bible.

983
01:08:04,679 --> 01:08:06,599
By the way, you have to read first and second

984
01:08:06,639 --> 01:08:10,320
Maccabees to properly understand preterism. If you don't read Versts

985
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,119
Second Macabees, you can't understand the Book of Daniel and

986
01:08:13,199 --> 01:08:17,439
Ezra Ezra also Verst and second Asdris. That helps vindicate

987
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,119
the timeline of what Daniel talks about in his prophecies.

988
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,920
So it's only shooting yourself in the foot and doing

989
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,399
damage to your own religion when you toss these books out,

990
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:34,039
because those books actually help vindicate preterism and the destruction

991
01:08:34,119 --> 01:08:38,960
of the temple in seventy eight. And by the way,

992
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,399
if you read the Orthodox Study Bible, you get all that.

993
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:46,439
All of that is in the study notes under the

994
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:50,279
deduoconomical books. If you read through the entire Orthodox Study Bible,

995
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:52,359
you will get all this. You will understand why it

996
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:56,039
is the Deudero Canon is there. It's there for historical

997
01:08:56,079 --> 01:09:00,760
testimony to the theological points and timeline of things like Daniel,

998
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,560
the prophecies of Daniel. Now this is look at let's

999
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,960
look at how stupid this is. Leo, the Great Pope,

1000
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:12,399
Saint Leo at Chalcedon frequently cites the dudoconical books as scripture.

1001
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,560
And this is one of the key arguments that Ian

1002
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,560
Paisley thinks proves the Dudero Canon isn't scripture. By the way,

1003
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,800
why is he citing Catholic Orthodox Catholic synods to prove

1004
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,640
his point that itself disproves him because he doesn't accept

1005
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:34,119
their authority. Another point, too, is that the Senator of

1006
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:37,159
Leo Deicia is one of these many synods that does

1007
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:41,359
not accept the Book of Revelation at scripture. Oops, So

1008
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,840
that doesn't work, does it? No, Because we don't go

1009
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,720
by what one local synod you know, in the year

1010
01:09:47,199 --> 01:09:50,880
three point forty one decided about the scripture in the Canon,

1011
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:56,399
and nor does Ian Paisley and his goofy examples here.

1012
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,239
And when we think about the Council of Chalcedon, why

1013
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:08,319
would we cite Chalcedon. Calcedon speaks of the Bishop of

1014
01:10:08,399 --> 01:10:14,439
Rome as the first patriarchate along with Alexandria. It speaks

1015
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:18,600
of apostolic succession, It speaks of the canons and councils

1016
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,479
that teach apostolic succession. It speaks of hierarchy, it speaks

1017
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,640
of monasticism, tradition, et cetera, et cetera. There's nothing Protestant

1018
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,560
about that. How are you going to use that in

1019
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:37,039
your dumb arguments? So thus, and much more could be

1020
01:10:37,079 --> 01:10:41,520
said on this, but the point is that it's easy

1021
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,079
to operate on assumptions and think that you're right and

1022
01:10:45,079 --> 01:10:46,840
think that you know what you're talking about about the

1023
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,079
church fathers or the history or how this happened. But

1024
01:10:50,079 --> 01:10:52,039
that's very different from when you actually go and you

1025
01:10:52,079 --> 01:10:55,279
read the Church fathers. When you spend thirteen years reading them,

1026
01:10:56,359 --> 01:10:59,239
then you start to realize that not only were they

1027
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:04,520
not Protestant, teach anything anything Protestant, anything approaching close to Protestantism.

1028
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,760
And if we just let's if we consider this historically.

1029
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:20,159
I'll show you this very boring book by Alistair McGrath,

1030
01:11:21,039 --> 01:11:22,880
which I did read a long time ago, back when

1031
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:27,840
I was still Protestant. I think it was right around

1032
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,159
the time I was leaving Protestantism. This came out somewhere

1033
01:11:30,159 --> 01:11:35,119
in there. But this very boring book is funny because

1034
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:41,520
here you have a Protestant basically doing historical theology, Alster

1035
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:48,359
McGrath's Eustacia Day, and it's about how nobody taught justification

1036
01:11:48,399 --> 01:11:56,760
by faith alone. Oops, no orthodox father, no Western Church father,

1037
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:07,399
no far Church writer, no liturgy, nobody. Now, goofy evangelicals say,

1038
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,560
so what the church? The church went into a blackout?

1039
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:13,000
Excuse me? I thought, the gates of Hell can't Preveilicans

1040
01:12:13,039 --> 01:12:16,039
the church. Uh. And by the way, so where was

1041
01:12:16,079 --> 01:12:20,159
this doctrine? Who who was there that taught this? Well

1042
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:21,840
some of them will say, well, they were there, We

1043
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,479
just we don't have any evidence of the true Baptist

1044
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:32,239
believers of you know, first Baptist Church of Laodicea and

1045
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:36,279
two hundred a d. But they were there. There, there

1046
01:12:36,319 --> 01:12:39,359
was a Blood River Baptist Church in Rome, and they

1047
01:12:39,359 --> 01:12:41,439
were hidden, and they were in the catacombs. It was

1048
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,399
a secret church because they were being persecuted. Now, wait

1049
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:48,680
a minute, No, in the first three hundred years of

1050
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,680
the church, all the people who were the Orthodox Church

1051
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:55,319
fathers were being persecuted. The Baptist gufuss were not being persecuted,

1052
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:59,199
namely because they didn't hardly exist if you want to

1053
01:12:59,239 --> 01:13:02,960
link them to heretical group. So the point is is

1054
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:10,520
that this has been well documented amongst the Orthodox Church

1055
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:17,720
fathers and amongst Protestant scholars and academics of the history

1056
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,720
of the Church and history of theology, that the early

1057
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:27,680
Church doctrines are not the Protestant doctrines. So we know

1058
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,359
that they didn't have solo scriptura. We know they didn't

1059
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:39,279
have solo fide, which are the hallmarks of the prostant Reformation. Also,

1060
01:13:39,319 --> 01:13:45,960
by the way, I want to there's a series that

1061
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,840
I would recommend if you want to go down the

1062
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:56,600
route of getting deeper into this. I have I think

1063
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,640
I've read almost all of Pelican's books pelican Yuros of Pelicon,

1064
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:09,439
but his the best history of theology is probably you know,

1065
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:11,600
if you don't want to immediately dive into all the

1066
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,760
writings of the Church Fathers, which I would actually recommend

1067
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,119
that above, most people just start reading secondhand scholars. Why

1068
01:14:17,119 --> 01:14:21,239
aren't you reading the actual Church fathers? You know, same

1069
01:14:21,279 --> 01:14:23,439
idea of the Bible. You read the actual Bible and

1070
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:28,720
the Church Fathers for yourself. That's not Protestant. It's not

1071
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,319
any more Protestant than when Roman Catholics go read the

1072
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:38,840
posts for themselves. Is that Protestant? So Pelicon series is

1073
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,000
a classic. I read this ten years ago, the Formation

1074
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:48,359
of the Catholic Tradition volume one, and then you can't

1075
01:14:48,359 --> 01:14:50,319
see volume two on here. But then it goes up

1076
01:14:50,319 --> 01:14:56,560
to medieval and then Reformation and then modern is Jesus book. Sorry,

1077
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,239
he has a book on the Canon two that's not bad.

1078
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,159
Shows that, you know, the Protestant conception of how the

1079
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:10,319
Canon came about is nonsense. But Pelicana eventually ended up Orthodox. Actually,

1080
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:15,039
if I recall, he was a Lutheran who converted to Orthodoxy.

1081
01:15:15,079 --> 01:15:18,399
So that is a good series if you want a

1082
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:24,039
scholarly approach to the history of theology. Right, So there's

1083
01:15:24,079 --> 01:15:27,039
different kinds of theology. Right. There's patristics, which is the

1084
01:15:27,079 --> 01:15:29,319
writings of the church fathers themselves, or the lives of

1085
01:15:29,359 --> 01:15:32,399
the Church fathers or will it really lives of the

1086
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:37,399
Church fathers would be hagiography, lives of the saints. There's

1087
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,479
also church history, which is not necessarily the history of theology.

1088
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:43,920
But you know the Ecumenical Councils book that I have

1089
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,600
here with me. This would be like you know, canonics

1090
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:57,960
or that would be like studying church history basically, and

1091
01:15:58,039 --> 01:16:02,159
obviously there's some overlap. But then there's also the history

1092
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,840
historical theology, and that would be what Pelican's series is

1093
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:12,640
historical theology. So if you want a theological overview of

1094
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:14,680
the history of the Church, then I would read his

1095
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:26,359
five volume series. Now, the point here was to show

1096
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,439
essentially that just in the in the terms of the

1097
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:33,119
Solas in Sola Scripture, was to show that the Bible

1098
01:16:33,159 --> 01:16:35,720
doesn't operate in a vacuum. It does it doesn't come

1099
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:40,079
to you outside of a historical context and outside of

1100
01:16:40,119 --> 01:16:43,680
the liturgy. The Bible is actually a liturgical document, and

1101
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,039
it was meant to be read. This is why all

1102
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:49,159
of the church fathers, or excuse me, that's why the

1103
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:51,640
apostles talk about the Word of God, which you heard

1104
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:55,720
from us, right, So it's it's a it's an oral proclamation.

1105
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,399
Certainly the texts are written, and certainly they should be

1106
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:04,359
read and must be read, but they cannot be divorced

1107
01:17:04,359 --> 01:17:06,640
from the church. This is why Paul says to Timothy,

1108
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:08,840
the Church is the pillar and ground of truth. He

1109
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,159
does not say the Bible is the pillar and ground

1110
01:17:11,159 --> 01:17:16,560
of truth. He says the institutional historical church. And this

1111
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,680
is why when we begin to move into reading the

1112
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,760
church fathers, when we read Ignatius, when we read Aaronaeus,

1113
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,720
when we read Clement, when we read Ambrose, when we

1114
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,399
read Augusta, and when we read Jerome, we find that

1115
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:34,239
they don't teach anything approaching Protestantism, none of them at all.

1116
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,920
They all teach Apostolic succession, They all teach Abstock tradition,

1117
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:43,279
they all cite the Dudo Canon. They all believe in

1118
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:49,399
synodal church government and ecumenical councils. Eventually, on and on

1119
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:53,880
and on the point being the fathers of our church, right,

1120
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:00,000
they do not teach Protestantism. They don't teach any aspect

1121
01:18:00,119 --> 01:18:06,279
the Protestantism. Now, one thing they do teach is that

1122
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:10,239
you can, in the context of the Church read the Bible.

1123
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:17,119
And there were periods in the post Tridentine era of

1124
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:21,359
Roman Catholicism where Rome did try to forbid people reading

1125
01:18:21,399 --> 01:18:25,439
the Bible, mainly because they wanted to be fair to Rome.

1126
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:29,800
They were trying to protect protect against faulty Protestant translations,

1127
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,920
which there were actually many Protestant translations of the Bible

1128
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,680
after the first Bible translated into English. By the way,

1129
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:43,520
it was a Catholic Bible, but the Tyndale Bible and

1130
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:50,560
other others were fairly notorious for not being very good. Yes,

1131
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:54,039
Calvin does the Judoo canon I've read, I've read the

1132
01:18:54,199 --> 01:19:01,600
entire Calvin's Institutes fifty fifteen, fifty nine whatever. The later

1133
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,239
one is, the two volume one, but Calvin does not

1134
01:19:04,359 --> 01:19:12,000
rank them as canonical. All right, now we're going to

1135
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:17,000
move on to the point here was that what this

1136
01:19:17,079 --> 01:19:21,800
is how we have to approach the questions of how

1137
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,199
the Bible came to be before we can try to

1138
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:28,600
just assume and claim that we have the right Bible.

1139
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,600
Because if the Protestants don't have the right canon, then

1140
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:40,680
sol scripture doesn't work, and they don't and if, for example, Wisdom.

1141
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:42,720
I remember having a Protestant friend I used to argue

1142
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:48,399
with old Time and you finally got furious because, well,

1143
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:54,159
you believe that if something is prophetic and preaches Christ,

1144
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:57,159
then it's inspired, right And he said yeah. And I said, well,

1145
01:19:57,199 --> 01:20:00,760
do you think Wisdom predicts Christ in the text that

1146
01:20:01,319 --> 01:20:03,319
I mentioned earlier? He said, yeah, it does seem like

1147
01:20:03,359 --> 01:20:07,039
that's predicting Christ. And everybody admits that was written before

1148
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,880
the birth of Christ. I was like, well, how come

1149
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:14,359
that's not in your canon? He said, well, the providence

1150
01:20:14,399 --> 01:20:16,399
of God determined that it would not be in the canon.

1151
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:19,640
I said, well, who were the instruments of the providence

1152
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:21,920
of God? Well it was the historic Church. But that

1153
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,239
doesn't mean that they're right about everything. Oh okay, so

1154
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,000
I will follow the Church in the selection of the

1155
01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:31,800
book that I think is inspired on everything else. However, though,

1156
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,960
I'm going to go to the book that they gave

1157
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:36,760
me to determine that I don't think that they are

1158
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:42,159
the church. It really makes no sense at all. But

1159
01:20:43,119 --> 01:20:45,000
if this guy were to admit that I was right.

1160
01:20:45,319 --> 01:20:49,319
Guess what. He couldn't be getting his Protestant pastor paycheck anymore,

1161
01:20:49,359 --> 01:20:51,840
could he. No, he would be kicked out of his

1162
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,840
made up Protestant sect, which was quite literally a denomination

1163
01:20:55,960 --> 01:21:03,880
invented within the last ten years. So Luthor didn't convert

1164
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:05,880
to Orthodoxy because he wasn't Orthodox. He was a man

1165
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,640
of Quean and he did not believe in the Orthodox

1166
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:17,640
inception of salvation. That's one Luther didn't become Orthodox, all right.

1167
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:21,479
So before we move on to the next section, here

1168
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:27,800
we mentioned a couple solas here, let's talk about let's

1169
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:48,039
do some of these super chazz while they're here. Anthony

1170
01:21:48,079 --> 01:21:52,880
Cavalho ten dollars? Are you too white to grab early shekels?

1171
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:55,279
Or do you have enough in you to go for

1172
01:21:55,359 --> 01:21:57,920
the gold? Ha ha haha, Thank you, Anthony, appreciate that.

1173
01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:08,399
Benjamin and Green on Angry Gnostic five New Zealand dollars,

1174
01:22:09,119 --> 01:22:12,279
Process House Sola, Scripture Calxi of Magisterium. What is the

1175
01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:17,640
bonding authority in Orthodoxy? Well, this is why Orthodoxy doesn't

1176
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:25,159
attempt to create a single external juridical authority, because that

1177
01:22:25,199 --> 01:22:30,880
doesn't work as a In other words, our worldview is

1178
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:36,760
based on transcendent truths, right, And when you talk to

1179
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,279
a Protestant or when you talk to Roman Catholic, they're both,

1180
01:22:39,319 --> 01:22:42,720
as we said earlier, trying to essentially erect some kind

1181
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,840
of public juridical thing that everybody could point to to say,

1182
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,239
there it is. That's the final deciding factor there. And

1183
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:51,479
we know because it's public and everybody can see it.

1184
01:22:52,079 --> 01:22:54,159
But as we said, all that does is move the

1185
01:22:54,199 --> 01:22:58,199
problem back a step. Right, And having spent ten years

1186
01:22:58,199 --> 01:23:00,520
in Rome, I know how it works. I can attest

1187
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,560
to that fact because as soon as you start trying

1188
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,119
to figure out who's interpreting the popes or the councils

1189
01:23:07,159 --> 01:23:10,279
correctly in Rome, there's a million different debates and nobody

1190
01:23:10,279 --> 01:23:12,880
can know, nobody can decide for sure. And it doesn't

1191
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:16,239
matter how many times the pope reaffirms something or restates something.

1192
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:19,399
You have to still assume that you are properly reading

1193
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:23,079
the pope. You see. So this is a problem of

1194
01:23:23,119 --> 01:23:27,760
circularity that the Roman Catholic epistemology thought it could solve

1195
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:31,840
by just adhering to classical foundationalism, right. And this is

1196
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:37,239
the older medieval entomistic way of viewing human anthropology in

1197
01:23:37,319 --> 01:23:41,560
human nature. It's called classical foundationalism. That's why I mentioned

1198
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,920
it a minute ago. I'm getting a echo here. Let

1199
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:51,960
me fix that. So I mean, let's draw some come

1200
01:23:52,000 --> 01:24:06,399
on now, okay, so we have I'm drum a little

1201
01:24:07,319 --> 01:24:19,319
pope figure. So here's our here's our little pope figure

1202
01:24:19,359 --> 01:24:28,720
here with his xis. Okay, all right, make sure my

1203
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,960
he's getting some feedback there. Had to fix that. So

1204
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,720
here's our little pope figure. And here's a little We're

1205
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:40,399
gonna put a little lowly normy Roman Catholic guy here. Now,

1206
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:44,079
Pope figure just decides one day that it is time

1207
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:50,279
for an infallible declaration. Now he doesn't just simply cite

1208
01:24:50,319 --> 01:24:52,680
in the document that it is infallible, which would make

1209
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:54,720
it pretty easy for everybody wouldn't know. What he does

1210
01:24:54,840 --> 01:25:00,239
is he says that with full apostolic authority, uh, from

1211
01:25:00,279 --> 01:25:05,520
the chair right here, he's gonna be proclaiming it in

1212
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,439
his proclamation bubble, I decree blah blah blah blah blah

1213
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:11,960
blahlah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And then later

1214
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:19,800
he issues an encyclical that helps interpret this. And then

1215
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:25,479
later there's I don't know another, the Congregation for the

1216
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,479
Doctrine of the Faith issues a proclamation that helps interpret this,

1217
01:25:29,399 --> 01:25:33,000
and then later there's another I don't know, papal whatever,

1218
01:25:33,079 --> 01:25:35,399
it doesn't matter. Just come up with all the different

1219
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:43,199
layers and levels PC papal claim clarification, papal claim clarification.

1220
01:25:45,119 --> 01:25:47,239
Now let's say this is how because also works. I'm

1221
01:25:47,239 --> 01:25:52,880
not I'm not joking, right, this is really how it works. Okay, Now,

1222
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,800
what is what is necessary for something to be ex

1223
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,800
cathedral from the chair? Well, it's for the whole universal Church.

1224
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,720
It's proclaim a full Apostolic authority right from the chair

1225
01:26:08,079 --> 01:26:12,119
and supposedly or I'll put an inverted cross on him here,

1226
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:17,119
since they they love those inverted crosses in Rome just

1227
01:26:17,119 --> 01:26:21,399
because of Peter. Ye're right. Now, here's mister lowly little

1228
01:26:21,399 --> 01:26:24,319
Catholic guy here, And I'm not joking. This is how

1229
01:26:24,319 --> 01:26:26,600
comical it is in the world of Rome. About Now,

1230
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,840
how are you going to understand this miasma, which, by

1231
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:33,119
the way, cannot actually be understood without being situated within

1232
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:37,479
the last two thousand years of supposed Roman dogma? Right,

1233
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,840
this is on the Catholic view, right, So you need

1234
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:42,920
a little bit of context of the last two thousand years,

1235
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:49,960
don't you to understand from the Apostolic seat chair Proclamation xxxx,

1236
01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:55,000
which is also clarified in encyclical BCD, which is also

1237
01:26:55,039 --> 01:26:57,399
clarified by the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith with

1238
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,159
Ratzinger as its head supposedly years ago. With all so

1239
01:27:00,239 --> 01:27:03,399
then the papal clarification that comes later down the road,

1240
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:07,319
and here's a you lowly little Roman guy, and you

1241
01:27:07,399 --> 01:27:11,319
think we just need the pope to solve these questions

1242
01:27:11,319 --> 01:27:16,039
of theology. It solves it, does it? Really? But see

1243
01:27:16,079 --> 01:27:20,239
what we've already done is we've introduced the mysterious chair

1244
01:27:20,359 --> 01:27:25,119
of authority that isn't always made clear when and yes,

1245
01:27:25,239 --> 01:27:28,920
Roman Catholics will debate ad nauseum which statements are ex

1246
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,920
cathedral and which ones aren't, which shows us that this

1247
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,760
whole nonsense doesn't really do anything like it's supposed to.

1248
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:36,920
It doesn't solve the problems it's supposed to. If we're

1249
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:40,399
all sitting around for decades debating which ones are the

1250
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:44,479
ex cathedral pronouncements, that's because it just moves the problem

1251
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,079
back a step? Can you not see that? So here's

1252
01:27:48,079 --> 01:27:49,840
lowly Roman Catholic, Now what does he do. He says,

1253
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:55,479
all right, I'm gonna interpret this, so in his mind,

1254
01:27:57,159 --> 01:28:01,279
he's got to be sure that the interpretation of all

1255
01:28:01,319 --> 01:28:06,239
this layers of gobbledinggook is proper, properly entering into his

1256
01:28:06,399 --> 01:28:09,760
mind and interpreted correctly. Now, guess what every Roman Catholic

1257
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:12,079
will tell you to do in this process. Oh, you

1258
01:28:12,119 --> 01:28:14,840
can't just do this. This is kind of this is

1259
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,960
kind of Protestant, bro, it's kind of Protestant going directly

1260
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,760
to these papal proclamations. Assuming that you can figure this out,

1261
01:28:22,039 --> 01:28:24,279
Oh you also need to Before you can do that,

1262
01:28:25,159 --> 01:28:28,239
you need to go talk to your local priest, because

1263
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:31,920
your priest is there, Father so and so, Father Brute,

1264
01:28:32,079 --> 01:28:35,880
father breath, father Bruce is there to help you. No, no, no,

1265
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,319
you need to go first to Father Bruce, who will

1266
01:28:38,319 --> 01:28:42,760
then interpret this for you to help you. That's not

1267
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:46,640
really works, right, But now wait a minute. Father Bruce

1268
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:50,279
is less than Orthodox, right, He's less in the romancallic sense.

1269
01:28:50,279 --> 01:28:52,520
He's less than orthodox. We've all been complaining about Father

1270
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:56,960
Bruce for so long for having X Y Z heresy. Right,

1271
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:59,600
So how do we know that Father Bruce is going

1272
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,119
to help us with us? Well, he's probably not. So

1273
01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:04,279
now we're gonna have to ex out Father Bruce because

1274
01:29:04,319 --> 01:29:06,319
we've decided he's not Orthodox. We're gonna have to go

1275
01:29:06,359 --> 01:29:11,279
over here to Bishop Williamson in the SSPX, who's over

1276
01:29:11,319 --> 01:29:17,319
here with his rival group. Maybe Bishop Williamson can help

1277
01:29:17,399 --> 01:29:20,239
us out because he's faithful to tradition and he's not

1278
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:22,600
afraid to talk about conspiracy subjects. So now we're going

1279
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,119
to ex out Father Bruth and we're going to go

1280
01:29:25,159 --> 01:29:27,520
over here to Bishop Williamson. And Bishop Williamson is going

1281
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,560
to help us interpret this, and he tells us don't

1282
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:34,239
worry about any of this because this is not faithful

1283
01:29:34,279 --> 01:29:37,199
to tradition. Now wait a minute. You see what we've

1284
01:29:37,239 --> 01:29:41,039
done here is just a vicious, nonsense gobbledegook circle of

1285
01:29:41,079 --> 01:29:45,239
trying to figure out the very thing that this was

1286
01:29:45,279 --> 01:29:49,159
supposed to solve for us. But it doesn't, does it.

1287
01:29:51,359 --> 01:29:57,399
And Vatican two makes that abundantly clear that you are

1288
01:29:57,399 --> 01:30:01,279
in no better spot than the person that you make

1289
01:30:01,319 --> 01:30:04,039
fun of as Orthodox. Yeah, you don't have a pope,

1290
01:30:04,079 --> 01:30:06,520
you don't have a way to determine what the infallible

1291
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:08,840
dog is. Have you actually been in Rome for any

1292
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:14,000
number of years neither do you. So that's how Rome

1293
01:30:14,039 --> 01:30:20,399
Catholicism really works, and that's why Orthodoxy says it's a scam.

1294
01:30:21,279 --> 01:30:25,199
It's a big heresy, and it doesn't solve for you

1295
01:30:25,279 --> 01:30:29,199
the problems that it pretends to solve, and it doesn't

1296
01:30:29,199 --> 01:30:33,039
grant the unity that it pretends to grant. I can

1297
01:30:33,079 --> 01:30:35,680
go to a Novus Orto chapel that is in full

1298
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:39,600
communion with Rome, that has never been excommunicated or rebuked,

1299
01:30:40,279 --> 01:30:42,760
that will teach me freemasonry is good, that will teach

1300
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:47,239
against Roman Catholic classic doctrines. They'll have a liturgy that's

1301
01:30:47,279 --> 01:30:52,159
worse than an Anglican liturgy. They'll have Zen meditation services,

1302
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:57,159
and that's perfectly okay. And then I can go across

1303
01:30:57,159 --> 01:31:02,439
the street to a Fraternal Society of Saint Peter Church,

1304
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,239
which is supposed to be the same faith, also in

1305
01:31:05,319 --> 01:31:13,520
communion with Rome, that has a completely different liturgy in Ethos,

1306
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:18,800
to Zen Buddhist Novasorto Church. And then I can go

1307
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:20,880
down the road to the set of a contiest chapel

1308
01:31:21,279 --> 01:31:26,199
that says that the other two are complete lunatic heretics. Now,

1309
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,840
who's right out of all these? And guess what you

1310
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,840
can't just say the pope. The pope decides. Now, does

1311
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:37,359
that mean that we're in Protestant land. No, because when

1312
01:31:37,399 --> 01:31:43,960
you read the church in its first thousand years, when

1313
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:45,840
they had all the same problems that we have today,

1314
01:31:46,279 --> 01:31:49,760
what do they do do? They just say, hey, Bishop

1315
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:52,840
of Rome, what do we do? And then the Bishop

1316
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:58,159
of Rome just basically said do this, do that, do that,

1317
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,760
do that, that that, and then everybody was happy. No,

1318
01:32:04,159 --> 01:32:07,640
they called councils. Did the Bishop of Rome convoke the

1319
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:10,560
Ecumenical council? No, he did not. The emperor is called

1320
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:14,760
the ecumenical councils. The emperors called every one of the

1321
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:21,640
argumenical councils, not the Bishop of Rome. Now, anyway, we're

1322
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:24,680
not here to talk Rome here today, but we're trying

1323
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:30,439
to illustrate a point here about the problem of both

1324
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:38,800
Protestant and Roman Catholic anthropology and epistemology. Now, what's the answer, Well,

1325
01:32:40,319 --> 01:32:45,119
specifically on knowing God in Orthodox theology, the key here

1326
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:48,680
is that we don't set up dialectics. Okay, so how

1327
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:51,600
is it is a Christian going to know God or

1328
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,239
no truth? Well, first of all, that can't be divorced

1329
01:32:54,239 --> 01:32:57,039
from the action of the Holy Spirit, right, So in

1330
01:32:57,039 --> 01:33:00,600
that regard, a Protestant would say something like the Holy

1331
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:02,640
Spirit has to enlighten a person to know God, and

1332
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,479
we would agree. So in that regard we sound like

1333
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:07,800
we wel might agree with a Protestant, but we're not Protestants.

1334
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:09,640
Why well, because we know that in the history of

1335
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,079
the Church there are synods and councils that have been

1336
01:33:12,119 --> 01:33:16,239
set up by God to ferret out truth from falsehood,

1337
01:33:16,279 --> 01:33:19,239
to excommunicate people, and so forth. So there we start

1338
01:33:19,239 --> 01:33:22,039
to sound like we're Catholics, right, but we're not. We're

1339
01:33:22,079 --> 01:33:25,720
not either one because we believe the historical formation of

1340
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:29,600
the Church was always sinodal and that Christ set it

1341
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:32,079
up that way. And the reason that we don't need

1342
01:33:32,119 --> 01:33:36,399
the super bishop is because Christ directly is the super

1343
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,520
bishop of his church. He doesn't need a vicar on

1344
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,760
earth with a giant palace and a bunch of castrated

1345
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,840
boys singing gay songs to him, which is quite literally

1346
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:49,079
what the Renaissance popes did, especially when there are three

1347
01:33:49,119 --> 01:33:52,520
of them, two antipopes and one supposedly valid pope, living

1348
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:56,079
in giant French palaces castrating boys to sing pretty songs

1349
01:33:56,079 --> 01:33:59,000
to them. No who in the right mind could think

1350
01:33:59,079 --> 01:34:01,319
that that is the legiti, I'm a succession of the Apostles.

1351
01:34:01,399 --> 01:34:09,079
That is preposterous. It's it's what the f dude, And

1352
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:12,319
yes they did that. So, by the way, the abuse

1353
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:15,680
probably wasn't just in this twentieth cent the twentieth century,

1354
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,640
was it? If they were castrating little boys to sing

1355
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:21,760
pretty pretty little girl songs to them, something tells me

1356
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:30,119
those Medici, you know, Borgia characters were pretty degenerate. I

1357
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:32,720
don't know how Christ in their minds could have anything

1358
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,680
to do with that nonsense. But if you're a Roman Catholic, oh,

1359
01:34:37,039 --> 01:34:41,960
I was way. It was so way it was, and

1360
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:45,319
that's you know, the pope is the The pope is

1361
01:34:45,359 --> 01:34:49,199
the the bridge between heaven and Earth. And as Unum

1362
01:34:49,239 --> 01:34:52,119
Sanctum calls him like, it's almost like he's like another

1363
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:56,199
He's like a bridge between the Trinity and man. It's

1364
01:34:56,199 --> 01:35:02,479
the pope utterly blasphemous stuff. So this is why we

1365
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:07,880
what you have to see is that the doctrine of

1366
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:12,439
the papacy evolves, and even the Roman Catholics admit it evolved.

1367
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:14,279
This is why Cardinal Newman had to write a whole

1368
01:35:14,279 --> 01:35:18,920
treatise defending the evolution of doctrine to explain how the

1369
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,840
early Church didn't believe in the Vatican One definitions of

1370
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:26,359
the papacy. Well, because doctrine evolved to that, that's preposterous,

1371
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:32,880
doesn't evolve, and only Orthodoxy strives to adhere to the

1372
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:35,199
ecumenical formation of the Church. Now you say, but there

1373
01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:39,840
haven't been ecumenical councils for Orthodoxy. Correct, There doesn't have

1374
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,239
to be. There's no promise of Christ that there will

1375
01:35:42,279 --> 01:35:45,439
be an ecumenical council every century. There were no ecumenical

1376
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:47,520
councils for the first three hundred years of the church,

1377
01:35:49,199 --> 01:35:54,079
and Orthodoxy does hold to binding doctrinal councils after the

1378
01:35:54,119 --> 01:35:57,359
Eighth Council, and yes, there are eight ecumenical councils if

1379
01:35:57,399 --> 01:36:04,319
you're Orthodox. Ecumenical only pertained to the Empire, and once

1380
01:36:04,319 --> 01:36:08,920
the Empire was gone, there weren't ecumenical councils. There were

1381
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,159
still binding councils, and every Orthodox person still has to

1382
01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:15,399
follow binding medieval councils. Now you say, how do you

1383
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:18,399
know which ones are true? Well, that's why there's no

1384
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:23,000
simple answer to anybody's position about how you know what's

1385
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:27,479
true and what's false. First of all, the Church we

1386
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:31,000
know from Christ's words will always be guided into the truth,

1387
01:36:31,039 --> 01:36:33,159
and we won't be let into error when it comes

1388
01:36:33,159 --> 01:36:40,800
to major doctrinal issues. Right. That relies on understanding the scriptures.

1389
01:36:41,319 --> 01:36:43,920
My understanding the scriptures relies on the testimony the Church.

1390
01:36:44,359 --> 01:36:47,079
Me understanding the testimony to the Church, and the scriptures relies

1391
01:36:47,159 --> 01:36:51,960
on my having the spirit hopefully right. And so, in

1392
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:58,600
other words, there is no classical foundationalists public juridical thing

1393
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:01,800
that you can set up that is the public proof

1394
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:07,199
of truth, because truth can't be had by mere empiricism.

1395
01:37:07,319 --> 01:37:10,399
It's not a merely empirical thing. It also requires the spirit,

1396
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:15,680
and the spirit's only had in the Church. So, in

1397
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,880
other words, there's not an easy answer to that question.

1398
01:37:18,079 --> 01:37:21,079
And it's also not answerable on the phony answers of

1399
01:37:21,119 --> 01:37:25,520
Protestantism and Romanism. Now Protonism and Romanism, if you remember

1400
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,920
earlier we talked about them having Here's how we're going

1401
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:30,520
to answer the question for you. By the way, the

1402
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:34,239
answer is direct knowledge of God. That's how. Now you said, now,

1403
01:37:34,239 --> 01:37:35,560
wait a minute, if you believe that you can know

1404
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,119
God directly, now you're starting to sound like a Protestant. Again,

1405
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:50,079
what do we always talk about avoiding in Orthodoxy dialectics? Right,

1406
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:04,319
So this is key to understand here, and this is

1407
01:38:04,359 --> 01:38:08,680
what all the Protestants and Roman Catholics don't understand, is

1408
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:12,159
that you don't need any dialectics. You want to throw

1409
01:38:12,199 --> 01:38:16,279
them all out because you don't want to set the

1410
01:38:16,359 --> 01:38:19,800
one against the many. This is what Protestants do. Roman

1411
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:22,399
Catholics do it by setting the pope over the church.

1412
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:25,920
They don't have a harmony of equality in the church.

1413
01:38:26,079 --> 01:38:29,039
They don't have every bishop having essentially the same power

1414
01:38:29,119 --> 01:38:31,960
and function of the rest of the apostles. No, they

1415
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:36,439
think that Peter is somehow some galactic emperor. Did Peter

1416
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,159
act like a galactic emperor in the New Testament? Did

1417
01:38:39,159 --> 01:38:44,840
he have a giant palace in France with castrated boys

1418
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:49,119
under him and zillions of dollars? No? No, that's not

1419
01:38:49,199 --> 01:38:53,760
how the church operated. The church is not to be

1420
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:56,520
set against scripture. Scripture is not to be set against

1421
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:58,920
the church. That would be a dialectic. The individual believer

1422
01:38:59,039 --> 01:39:01,199
is not set against the rest of the church. The

1423
01:39:01,239 --> 01:39:05,000
rest of the church is not swallowing up the believer. So,

1424
01:39:05,239 --> 01:39:09,479
in other words, the direct knowledge of God that we

1425
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,960
read about in so many Orthodox fathers. The direct experience

1426
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:19,800
of God via the noos and knowing God is not

1427
01:39:20,359 --> 01:39:25,760
set against church or tradition or community, the community of

1428
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:28,800
the church, and it's not set against the scriptures. It's

1429
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,560
not a dialectical either war. It all works in harmony.

1430
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:34,880
The direct knowledge of you that you have of God

1431
01:39:35,399 --> 01:39:38,720
comes through your direct knowledge of God, or it comes

1432
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:42,239
through the scriptures. Right. We experience these things in all

1433
01:39:42,279 --> 01:39:45,560
of these ways. So in this this is why many

1434
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:50,000
people speak of Orthodoxy as experiential as existential. That's not

1435
01:39:50,079 --> 01:39:54,760
to equate it with the lunacy of modern existentialist philosophy,

1436
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,800
but rather to say that there really is no external proof,

1437
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:02,800
just in the same way as in apologetics. We can't

1438
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:09,800
set up some external earthworm proof that's going to convince

1439
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:16,319
all the unbelievers of creation, because it's a system wide thing, right,

1440
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,279
and it's all it all kind of coheres together, So

1441
01:40:19,319 --> 01:40:21,079
you can't like take one thing out of it and

1442
01:40:21,079 --> 01:40:23,000
set it up over here and say, look at I'll

1443
01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:24,800
just prove to you the Bible. And if I can

1444
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:26,439
just prove to you the Bible, then you're gonna then

1445
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:30,119
you're gonna believe the Bible can't be divorced from the Church. Right.

1446
01:40:30,359 --> 01:40:32,880
The Bible can't be divorced from tradition, the Bible can't

1447
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,479
be divorced from liturgy. None of these things can be

1448
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:38,239
divorced or taken out of the context of the rest

1449
01:40:38,279 --> 01:40:41,279
of them. And you can't divorce the church from the

1450
01:40:41,399 --> 01:40:47,520
historical experience of the Church. You see, So there's no mental,

1451
01:40:48,199 --> 01:40:53,039
calvinistic spiritual church. That's not the historic church. Okay, there's

1452
01:40:53,039 --> 01:40:57,960
no invisible mystical spiritual church that's not the actual visible

1453
01:40:58,079 --> 01:41:01,640
church of history. All of God's covenants and history were

1454
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:07,560
visible bodies of people. There's no invisible church. There's only

1455
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:12,000
one church. That's why Jesus says there's one shepherd and

1456
01:41:12,119 --> 01:41:22,079
one flock. Anyway, so I went way off on that question,

1457
01:41:22,159 --> 01:41:26,960
but hopefully that answers your question there. The answer is

1458
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:30,520
that Protestants don't know the faith from sola scriptura or

1459
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:36,239
analogia fide any better than Catholics and their magisterium. Those

1460
01:41:36,279 --> 01:41:38,520
both of those just moved the problem back of stuff, because,

1461
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:41,840
as we saw in the Protestant tradition, the noetic effects

1462
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:44,720
of sin have so damaged you that you really can't

1463
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:48,840
interpret scripture at all properly because you never escape the

1464
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:54,319
noetic effects of sin. In classical Protestantism, you are always

1465
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:58,399
under the noetic effects of sin, and they are always

1466
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:02,399
it's always skewing your interpretition. So you can never have

1467
01:42:03,399 --> 01:42:10,039
infallible certitude about any of the doctrines. So, how, by

1468
01:42:10,039 --> 01:42:14,479
the way, does any Protestant argue for the transcendental argument?

1469
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:17,479
How does he argue that God's existence is certain when

1470
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:22,319
he also confesses the noetic effects of sin? Exactly? Yeah,

1471
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:26,399
so much for certitude and consistency there. Now, what is

1472
01:42:26,479 --> 01:42:32,119
missing in all of these views, Well, both Roman Catholicism

1473
01:42:32,199 --> 01:42:37,960
and Protestantism long ago dumped the doctrine of the news.

1474
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:43,199
Only orthodoxeology holds to the essence energy distinction, and only

1475
01:42:43,319 --> 01:42:48,039
orthodoxology holds to proper Christology, And only orthodoxeology holds to

1476
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:51,159
the news. The doctrine of the news is the faculty

1477
01:42:51,359 --> 01:42:56,000
that man has for knowing God directly. It is the

1478
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:58,720
eye of the soul, It is the eye of the heart.

1479
01:42:59,319 --> 01:43:03,560
Right the church, fathers and elders and many spiritual writers

1480
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:05,479
will speak of it in different ways, but they're essentially

1481
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:09,560
speaking of the same thing. And the news is not

1482
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:12,800
the same thing as intellect. It's not the same thing

1483
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:19,920
as ratiocination. Merely rationalizing things are merely having a psyche,

1484
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:26,000
the soul and the heart functioning in unison with repentance

1485
01:43:27,359 --> 01:43:30,960
and turning to God is what cleanses the news to

1486
01:43:31,079 --> 01:43:35,000
see the world correctly. So man cannot properly interpret his

1487
01:43:35,119 --> 01:43:40,359
world without repentance. Now, this is why you might say, well,

1488
01:43:40,399 --> 01:43:42,560
annoying it, you sound like a Protestant. No, no, we're not

1489
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:45,319
Protestants because we do not believe in total depravity. We

1490
01:43:45,359 --> 01:43:48,479
do not believe in any of the Protestant doctrines, and

1491
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,800
so we do believe that grace raises man's nature. Oh no,

1492
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:53,239
wait of it. Now you sound like a Roman Catholic.

1493
01:43:53,279 --> 01:43:55,239
Now we don't. We're not Roman Catholics because we don't

1494
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:59,159
believe in natural theology. Right, if you read Father's stun

1495
01:43:59,159 --> 01:44:03,079
Eloys book, you will see the first chapter rebukes natural

1496
01:44:03,119 --> 01:44:08,319
theology and critiques Tomism. So we are neither Protestant nor Catholic.

1497
01:44:09,039 --> 01:44:11,119
We have a different view on all of these things,

1498
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:14,640
and they have different views on all these things. Now,

1499
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:21,000
the News, as we said, requires a ceasis ascetic practice

1500
01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:23,960
to control the passion, so that the passions don't cloud

1501
01:44:24,039 --> 01:44:26,760
or nows the fall clouded the news, and the news

1502
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:29,000
is not what Plato talked about. That's something different. We

1503
01:44:29,079 --> 01:44:31,119
just simply believe that when Paul says, and this is

1504
01:44:31,159 --> 01:44:35,960
what Saint Gregory Palamos when he quotes Paul, that man's

1505
01:44:36,119 --> 01:44:42,159
faculties are body, soul, and spirit. That's noos. Man's spirit

1506
01:44:42,319 --> 01:44:45,359
is his noos. Not exactly the same thing as the

1507
01:44:45,399 --> 01:44:49,720
Holy Spirit. Obviously, because we participate in the energy of

1508
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:51,720
the Holy Spirit, we are not merged with the person

1509
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:55,720
of the Holy Spirit. That would be heretical. So what

1510
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:58,159
I'm getting at is that we don't believe in analogia

1511
01:44:58,199 --> 01:45:00,760
fe day, and we don't believe in analogia, neither the

1512
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:03,640
Protestant nor the Catholic view of knowing God and knowing

1513
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:06,640
the world and knowing the scriptures. We believe in the

1514
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:13,319
power of the news. And you will find at Orthodox

1515
01:45:13,399 --> 01:45:23,760
Info good site. There are multiple essays there on the news.

1516
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:41,880
Let's see if this is the one I'm looking for here. Yeah, well,

1517
01:45:43,399 --> 01:45:46,640
there's one at Ortho Christian by Father Whitford that's pretty good.

1518
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:51,960
But this is this is important because this is a

1519
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:58,760
different anthropology, you see, and it is nowhere in Rome

1520
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:03,119
and is nowhere in Protestanism. So again I'm stressing the

1521
01:46:03,119 --> 01:46:11,800
fact that we have unique different approaches to anthropology, which

1522
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:19,199
condition why we believe what we do about man and

1523
01:46:19,359 --> 01:46:23,960
man understanding the world and understanding God. So the point

1524
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,399
is that it's neither Protestant nor Catholic, and we don't

1525
01:46:26,439 --> 01:46:32,600
believe in analogia entus or analogia fide. Both positions are

1526
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:37,520
problematic and essentially corruptions. And the reason that the West

1527
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:43,119
went with that was because of Augustine. Augustine has essentially

1528
01:46:43,159 --> 01:46:47,439
a dual view of man body and soul, or soul

1529
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:52,560
essentially becomes equated with intellect. To my knowledge, he does

1530
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:55,439
not at all teach news that man has a news,

1531
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:57,359
and that's because he was very influenced by this sort

1532
01:46:57,399 --> 01:47:02,479
of dualistic anthropology of Platanism, the body and soul, right,

1533
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:05,960
the soul is always fighting against the body, this kind

1534
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:10,479
of a thing. So anyway, so that's why we don't

1535
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:13,079
We can't believe in either. So it wouldn't make sense

1536
01:47:13,079 --> 01:47:15,760
to talk about solo scriptura because number one, God is

1537
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:19,279
not equated with the text Jesus says you follow the

1538
01:47:19,279 --> 01:47:22,039
scriptures because you think that in them you have salvation.

1539
01:47:22,159 --> 01:47:24,720
What it is then that testify of me? Right? The

1540
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:29,479
scriptures are a letter, They're a text, They're not a person.

1541
01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:33,119
They testify to the relationship that you should have with

1542
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,800
the divine person. That does not mean that they have

1543
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:44,000
errors to go against the modernists here. All right, let's

1544
01:47:44,039 --> 01:47:47,960
move on to the next question here, Damon Paffen Wrath,

1545
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,159
my grandfather isn't a weird Armstrong at church? He argues

1546
01:47:53,199 --> 01:47:56,680
for worship on Saturday. Yeah, I'm familiar with the garner

1547
01:47:56,760 --> 01:48:01,000
Ted Armstrong cult Worldwide Church of God. They believe they're

1548
01:48:01,039 --> 01:48:06,880
one of the preachers of British Israelite theory. This is

1549
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:10,199
all just really goofy stuff, and anybody who has any

1550
01:48:10,239 --> 01:48:14,560
knowledge of church history would avoid that nonsense. And in fact,

1551
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,279
I think very recently though they were converted. I think

1552
01:48:17,359 --> 01:48:22,479
James White supposedly converted or helped convert the Armstrong Church

1553
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:27,239
to his version of the Trinity, which is funny, it's

1554
01:48:27,279 --> 01:48:31,239
not worthodox at all, but it's ironic that I think

1555
01:48:31,319 --> 01:48:33,840
James White claims or he claimed that many years ago,

1556
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:37,119
ten years ago, so, that he converted the Armstrong Ends

1557
01:48:37,119 --> 01:48:39,640
to because they used to be anti Trinitarian or something

1558
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:43,600
to that effect. But the reason that we do worship

1559
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:46,720
on Sunday is because when Jesus resurrected is called the

1560
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:48,520
Lord's Day, and it's called the first day of the week.

1561
01:48:49,159 --> 01:48:52,680
And in the Book of Acts, the church gathers together

1562
01:48:52,720 --> 01:48:55,560
to break bread, which we believe is the Eucharist. It's

1563
01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:01,279
not just eating cracker snacks. It's not just eating crackers

1564
01:49:01,279 --> 01:49:05,000
and drinking Welch's grape juice like Baptists think. It's actually

1565
01:49:05,119 --> 01:49:10,720
the Eucharist. So that's why we meet on Sunday, and

1566
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:18,159
it shows the supersession of the Mosaic administration. By the way,

1567
01:49:18,159 --> 01:49:22,600
the Orthodox Church, though, does still reverence the Seventh Day Sabbath.

1568
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:27,319
We do still in the liturgy. There is still reverence

1569
01:49:27,359 --> 01:49:32,039
and honor on every Saturday, because there's a liturgy every Saturday.

1570
01:49:32,039 --> 01:49:34,920
Best way, there is still reverence paid to the Sabbath.

1571
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:39,119
So we technically speaking, we actually don't completely reject the Sabbath.

1572
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:45,039
So anyway, but as for the Armstrong Church, I mean,

1573
01:49:45,039 --> 01:49:48,359
I'm sure you could find plenty of instances of online

1574
01:49:48,399 --> 01:49:51,279
stuff refuting the rest of their gifty nonsense. I mean,

1575
01:49:51,279 --> 01:49:55,399
it's just a cult started by some businessman. Any church

1576
01:49:55,439 --> 01:50:00,600
started by some businessman, come on, that's come on, there's

1577
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:06,640
no businessman church. That's the true church. I'm gonna start

1578
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:10,279
my Shawnees Church. I'm gonna start up Shawnee's big boy Church.

1579
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:15,039
I'm gonna start up. Actually, all all the Protestants they

1580
01:50:15,079 --> 01:50:18,920
look like businessmen. So I guess technically every Protestant church

1581
01:50:19,039 --> 01:50:23,399
is businessman church, isn't it? And they act they act

1582
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,840
like businesses. Right, it is like a business So I

1583
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:29,680
should I'm wrong there. Actually most churches are businessman churches exactly.

1584
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:48,439
What's that one goofball? Businessman church isn't funny? How that?

1585
01:50:48,520 --> 01:50:55,520
Like the Protestant churches evolved from Luther and Calvin. And

1586
01:50:55,600 --> 01:51:01,720
let's look at what do we get in the Protestant world. Now, yeah,

1587
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:06,520
you get like female trans bishop, you know what I mean?

1588
01:51:07,359 --> 01:51:12,039
So I guess I should say the megachurch. Megachurch pastors

1589
01:51:12,039 --> 01:51:16,920
are like businessman pastor. Come to business church.

1590
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:24,159
Speaker 3: We will teach you the techniques of time saving and

1591
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:27,760
learn learn time share, learn how to sell your time

1592
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:30,119
share at business church.

1593
01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:35,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, cracking up over here at business church. But that's

1594
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:44,039
what Protestants is just business church, businessman church and Garner

1595
01:51:44,079 --> 01:51:46,399
Ted Armstrong that was like, he's just like some business

1596
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:51,720
dude starting a racket. Dude. Thank you Anthony Cavolo for

1597
01:51:51,800 --> 01:51:55,239
ten bucks. Eric, what does the Orthodox take on near

1598
01:51:55,279 --> 01:51:58,359
death experiences? Uh? Well, Father Rose has a book on it.

1599
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:03,840
I'm not saying that endorse every story and Father serafrom

1600
01:52:03,880 --> 01:52:08,760
roses Soul after Death book, but that is the first

1601
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:11,920
one that comes to mind. There's some kind of weird

1602
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:15,600
stories in there which nobody has to believe every story

1603
01:52:15,640 --> 01:52:18,359
in a book like that. But Eric, I would say,

1604
01:52:18,399 --> 01:52:27,039
read The Soul after Death by Father Rose Hans Lah

1605
01:52:27,279 --> 01:52:32,960
five dollars seriously. Looking at Orthodoxy, do they consider mary sinless? Well,

1606
01:52:33,039 --> 01:52:37,239
there's some debate actually in the history of Orthodoxy about

1607
01:52:37,239 --> 01:52:40,439
this question, and there's not really a simple answer to it,

1608
01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:42,439
because we don't view sin in the same way that

1609
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,560
Roman Catholic or Protests do. By the way, so for example,

1610
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:50,479
in Protestant tradition, humanity after the Fall basically takes on

1611
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:56,439
a sin nature, which ninety five percent of Protestantism actually

1612
01:52:56,880 --> 01:53:00,600
confuses into like Manicheanism, where they think that human nature

1613
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:08,239
itself has somehow become inherently evil. That is Manicheanism. There's

1614
01:53:08,239 --> 01:53:12,479
nothing that God creates that actually possesses evil. So evil

1615
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:15,640
isn't part of human nature or inherent to human nature.

1616
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:19,680
Evil is, as the Church fathers say, only the move

1617
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,560
of the will away from the good. That's it. So

1618
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:25,319
we do inherit something. We do pass on something which

1619
01:53:25,359 --> 01:53:28,680
is in the Orthodox tradition called ancestral sin from Adam.

1620
01:53:29,399 --> 01:53:32,600
But it's not a thing that immediately puts us under

1621
01:53:34,319 --> 01:53:38,319
the hell fire status that most of the Church believes.

1622
01:53:38,319 --> 01:53:42,760
And this is why the Eastern Fathers consistently don't teach this.

1623
01:53:44,319 --> 01:53:49,159
Now that's a little abtuse, but if you read the

1624
01:53:49,239 --> 01:53:52,640
Orthdox Study Bible page on ancestral sin, it's a very

1625
01:53:52,680 --> 01:53:54,800
good explanation of that. So I would recommend that in

1626
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:59,119
the Orthodox Study Bible. But there's different debates, and there

1627
01:53:59,119 --> 01:54:02,079
were debates in late Middle Ages between the East and

1628
01:54:02,079 --> 01:54:06,319
the West over Mary and Mary status. And so sometimes

1629
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:10,840
if you had fathers that were more influenced by Western theology,

1630
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:14,359
and if they use the term original sin in a

1631
01:54:14,399 --> 01:54:17,000
more Augustinian sense, it just depends on what you mean

1632
01:54:17,039 --> 01:54:18,800
by these terms. Right, It's not like the terms are

1633
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:22,560
inherently bad, but for example, we do believe that Semipalagianism

1634
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,760
is wrong. It's actually condemned the councils of the Orange.

1635
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:28,479
The sinods of Orange are reaffirmed in the Ecumenical councils.

1636
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:32,199
So so no, we don't believe that in the sense

1637
01:54:32,239 --> 01:54:38,840
that Mary somehow had to be immaculately conceived for Jesus

1638
01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:42,880
to be who Jesus is. But there have been certain

1639
01:54:43,319 --> 01:54:47,960
Orthodox theologians who have believed that God preserved Eve from

1640
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:53,600
the taint of ancestral or original sin. And it's a

1641
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:57,239
very difficult debate at times. But if we think about

1642
01:54:57,239 --> 01:55:00,680
the fact that there is a seminal transmission an aspect

1643
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:05,359
to original sin, that is there hence the virgin births right,

1644
01:55:06,279 --> 01:55:09,119
and we when we understand that Jesus this is a

1645
01:55:09,239 --> 01:55:13,399
very difficult doctrine that actually I was corrected on a

1646
01:55:13,479 --> 01:55:15,800
couple of years ago because I was mistaken on this.

1647
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:22,439
But Jesus did not take on fallen human nature. And

1648
01:55:22,439 --> 01:55:24,880
that's not because of a sin nature, but it's because,

1649
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:28,159
as Saint John Damascus and other Church Fathers teach, he

1650
01:55:28,199 --> 01:55:34,880
actually assumed the humanity of Adams as it was in Eden.

1651
01:55:36,279 --> 01:55:41,079
So Jesus's humanity is not fallen. And that's why Saint

1652
01:55:41,079 --> 01:55:44,279
Maximus teaches that Jesus did not possess a nomic will,

1653
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:47,560
that is, he did not possess a discursive will of Oh,

1654
01:55:47,640 --> 01:55:48,920
I don't know what I should do today. Maybe I

1655
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:51,000
should do this, maybe I should do that. And you

1656
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,560
can read Saint Maximus on why Jesus did not have

1657
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:58,159
a nomic will, and that's because he wasn't fallen. Now

1658
01:55:58,199 --> 01:56:04,600
he did, however, will undergo death. But that's not because

1659
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:09,039
he was a son of Adam in the sense of

1660
01:56:09,880 --> 01:56:13,960
this a corruptible nature. He was not corruptible. His flesh

1661
01:56:14,039 --> 01:56:18,479
was incorruptible. So what I will say on the Mother

1662
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:23,800
of God is to read Saint Gregory Palamas's Little book,

1663
01:56:24,039 --> 01:56:27,479
Married the Mother of God. So that's the answer to

1664
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:30,279
that for you. But we don't have this is not

1665
01:56:30,359 --> 01:56:33,199
the space to really go into the into depth on

1666
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:42,239
the difference between ancestral sin and original sin. So what

1667
01:56:42,439 --> 01:56:47,920
she sinless, Well, she could be preserved from sin by

1668
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:53,039
God's grace because of it being like Eden, right, and

1669
01:56:53,079 --> 01:56:56,079
there's nothing preventing grace from doing that. And that would

1670
01:56:56,119 --> 01:56:59,119
not mean that she wasn't saved. It would mean that

1671
01:56:59,119 --> 01:57:02,279
she was saved. She wouldn't just saved from following, she

1672
01:57:02,439 --> 01:57:06,600
was saved throughout her whole life. And again this has

1673
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:11,439
been debated. Just read read Saint Gregory on it. Please

1674
01:57:11,479 --> 01:57:14,439
post YouTube videos on your website and make NB three

1675
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:18,760
I do for everything, so thank you, Nigel, Nigel. But

1676
01:57:19,560 --> 01:57:23,039
every YouTube video goes on the website, would you talk

1677
01:57:23,359 --> 01:57:26,159
about Guruism and Orthodoxy and how to avoid it for example,

1678
01:57:26,319 --> 01:57:30,000
Romanidies Disciples Bulgakov Disciples. Yeah, I mean there's you know,

1679
01:57:30,119 --> 01:57:33,079
this is no there's no easy answer to anything like this,

1680
01:57:33,199 --> 01:57:36,319
because any group that you're in, there's going to be

1681
01:57:36,399 --> 01:57:40,279
Guruism and there's going to be weird, weird ideas, so

1682
01:57:40,319 --> 01:57:42,079
there's going to be you know, I mean I have

1683
01:57:42,199 --> 01:57:45,720
friends that like Bulgakov. I think that Lawsky is correct

1684
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:50,560
that Bulgakov is just basically bringing German idealism into Orthodoxy

1685
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:52,720
and we don't need that. We don't need German idealism.

1686
01:57:53,479 --> 01:57:56,720
And he's also an ecumenist and was rebuked for being

1687
01:57:56,760 --> 01:58:00,359
a humanist. I'm not going to go into the old

1688
01:58:00,359 --> 01:58:04,640
calendar stuff that's used to divide people. That doesn't mean

1689
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:07,199
that they don't have a point about ecumenism. They do

1690
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,119
but the old calendars are all divided amongst themselves. Anyway,

1691
01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:14,279
So Romanites read my giant essay about Romanites and they

1692
01:58:14,319 --> 01:58:17,079
are cultic. One of my good friends, we're not really

1693
01:58:17,119 --> 01:58:21,079
friends anymore because he is a cultic Romanites follower. And

1694
01:58:21,279 --> 01:58:28,640
there's plenty of stuff in Romanites that's just ridiculous. Anyway,

1695
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:30,359
I don't know what to say. I mean, you know,

1696
01:58:32,399 --> 01:58:36,319
the way to avoid it is to the more conscious

1697
01:58:36,359 --> 01:58:38,520
you can be of the totality of the of the

1698
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:42,279
Church's tradition east and west, right. I mean, one of

1699
01:58:42,359 --> 01:58:45,159
the things that really brought me out of the cult

1700
01:58:45,159 --> 01:58:47,319
of roman Now, I was never in the Cult of Romanites,

1701
01:58:47,359 --> 01:58:50,039
but was reading the Church Fathers and the fact that

1702
01:58:50,039 --> 01:58:53,279
the Church Fathers talking about the logoy being archetypes and patterns,

1703
01:58:54,399 --> 01:58:59,119
and that there is an analogia in Romanites, says there's not.

1704
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:03,359
So do I go with the common mind of countless

1705
01:59:03,399 --> 01:59:11,119
Church Fathers or the weird ideas of Romanites himself. But

1706
01:59:11,199 --> 01:59:14,319
so many people don't read the Church Fathers. They just

1707
01:59:14,399 --> 01:59:17,840
read one guy, just read Romanites. Here's my guy, right,

1708
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:22,680
I'll just follow him for the next ten years. So

1709
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:25,199
the best way to do that is to not get

1710
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:34,479
stuck reading one guy, Timothy Rainfield five dollars, what is

1711
01:59:34,520 --> 01:59:37,279
your refutation of soul scripture and solo feede. Well, we

1712
01:59:37,319 --> 01:59:39,680
cover that in the first hour. So the refutation is that,

1713
01:59:40,439 --> 01:59:44,319
first of all, sol scriptura is not biblical. You cannot

1714
01:59:44,359 --> 01:59:46,479
find a list of the books of the Bible, and

1715
01:59:46,520 --> 01:59:49,039
the Bible and the history of the formation of the Canon,

1716
01:59:49,119 --> 01:59:52,520
even from all the Protestant scholars liberal to conservative, confirms

1717
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:55,920
the fact that the Church created the Canon, it put

1718
01:59:55,960 --> 01:59:58,760
it together. And if you want to believe in sol scripture,

1719
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:01,039
it logically follows that the decision of the books that

1720
02:00:01,079 --> 02:00:03,800
went into the Canon are also infallible. That leads to

1721
02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:09,199
the infallibility of the Church. So lafide, Well, this is

1722
02:00:09,199 --> 02:00:11,720
a little bit of a more involved question which will

1723
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:15,760
probably be in the talk for subscribers. So we're already

1724
02:00:15,760 --> 02:00:18,079
going on two hours here and this is also going

1725
02:00:18,159 --> 02:00:21,159
to be a half and half, so subscribers to Jay's

1726
02:00:21,159 --> 02:00:24,680
analysis will get the full talk on this. So I'll

1727
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:28,840
answer sola fide in depth probably by tomorrow in the

1728
02:00:28,880 --> 02:00:32,720
subscribers talk, but we went into a little bit of

1729
02:00:32,760 --> 02:00:34,960
it earlier, but I'll go into more detail with how

1730
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:39,319
all of the covenants in scripture always have covenant requirements.

1731
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:43,920
And when Abraham, for example, was required in the Covenant

1732
02:00:43,960 --> 02:00:50,359
to follow God and to be moral, you can't. We

1733
02:00:50,439 --> 02:00:54,520
don't set that over against the fact that he was

1734
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:57,680
saved by grace. Okay. So in other words, grace and

1735
02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:02,640
works are not antithetical when you understand that grace can

1736
02:01:03,359 --> 02:01:06,880
move or impel or not impel. That's not the word

1737
02:01:07,039 --> 02:01:13,479
grace can can bring about good works? How's that? And

1738
02:01:13,479 --> 02:01:16,239
this is actually actually Augustine has insights on this when

1739
02:01:16,239 --> 02:01:20,199
he's writing against the Donatis and against the Palladians. He

1740
02:01:20,239 --> 02:01:23,119
does have insights on this, which is fine because actually,

1741
02:01:23,199 --> 02:01:29,000
as we said, the Synative Orange, which is ratified by

1742
02:01:29,039 --> 02:01:33,840
later ecumenical councils Orange one and Orange two, condemned semi Pelagianism.

1743
02:01:34,159 --> 02:01:41,479
So Orthodoxy has to also condemn semi Plagianism. Anyway, I

1744
02:01:41,479 --> 02:01:45,039
will go into that as I said, solofide as not

1745
02:01:45,279 --> 02:01:50,640
being sensical in the Reformation sense, the prison sense when

1746
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:53,880
we get to the second hour. Another point too about

1747
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:57,199
solo fide is that it rests on Asaurianism, and the

1748
02:01:57,520 --> 02:01:59,439
way it rests on Assorianism is that you have this

1749
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:04,199
penal de claration in Protestant and Calvinist theology, where this

1750
02:02:04,279 --> 02:02:06,960
is the classic reformers, they all teach this. Now modern

1751
02:02:07,359 --> 02:02:10,680
some of the modern Protestants and Calvinists and so forth

1752
02:02:11,279 --> 02:02:14,439
might shy away from this because it's obviously retarded and blasphemous,

1753
02:02:14,479 --> 02:02:18,880
but the older ones do and they teach the luther

1754
02:02:19,000 --> 02:02:22,800
even teaches us calvin that the Father damned the son

1755
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:27,159
as the payment right, so we owe God an infinite

1756
02:02:27,199 --> 02:02:30,720
payment of hell, and so God damned the son to

1757
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:34,399
pay for the debt or whatever. That either requires that

1758
02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:37,000
Jesus be a human person who got damned, which is

1759
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:41,119
an Astorianism, or the Father damned the son, which splits

1760
02:02:41,159 --> 02:02:47,800
the trinity. So that is the chief most blasphemous, wicked

1761
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:51,279
doctrine of all Calvinism and Protestantism is the splitting of

1762
02:02:51,279 --> 02:02:54,159
the trinity in the idea, the stupid idea of the

1763
02:02:54,199 --> 02:02:58,960
Father damning the son. And that is absolutely historic Protestant theology.

1764
02:03:00,319 --> 02:03:05,000
It's a historic Lutheran and Calvinist theology. It's the it's

1765
02:03:05,039 --> 02:03:13,840
taught by Charles Hodge, just taught by the Puritans. Yeah,

1766
02:03:14,479 --> 02:03:18,000
the Father didn't damn the son. It's completely stupid and

1767
02:03:18,039 --> 02:03:19,840
the only way you could come to that conclusion is

1768
02:03:19,880 --> 02:03:23,479
if you have a historian Jesus, a Jesus who could

1769
02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:28,199
be damned while the son of God remains in the Godhead.

1770
02:03:28,439 --> 02:03:30,840
That's an Astorianism. To a Jesus who's the son of

1771
02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:33,439
God and then a human Jesus who's damned. That's I mean,

1772
02:03:33,479 --> 02:03:36,880
come on, Anybody who knows what Nestorianism is and knows

1773
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:39,039
that it's condemned and why it's condemned is because it

1774
02:03:39,119 --> 02:03:42,640
leads back to Arianism, knows that this is retarded. And

1775
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:46,680
yet how many of the classical reformers teach this stupid doctrine.

1776
02:03:52,199 --> 02:03:55,079
Let's see Troy Sampson two dollars, Thank you, Troy Sampson again,

1777
02:03:55,119 --> 02:03:57,479
ten dollars. What's the difference between Oriental and East Orthodoxy. Well,

1778
02:03:57,479 --> 02:04:02,279
Oriental Orthodoxy be two different branches. You could be the

1779
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:06,520
Nestorian Syrian Church which still maintains a Nestorianism which I

1780
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:09,520
just talked about in Syria, which they do still exist.

1781
02:04:10,359 --> 02:04:16,520
Or it could be the Orthodox so called who are

1782
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:22,560
Monophysite or Monothelite right, Coptic Church of Egypt or Egyptian

1783
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:31,960
Tawahido Church right or excuse me not Egyptian. The I

1784
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:34,359
just went blank. Who's the Tewahido? You know what I'm

1785
02:04:34,359 --> 02:04:41,840
talking about? Anyway, they are not with us because they

1786
02:04:42,119 --> 02:04:48,680
essentially followed Ay. There were two ways to read the

1787
02:04:48,720 --> 02:04:53,319
Council of Chalcidon. One way was the Kirillian way and

1788
02:04:53,399 --> 02:04:55,920
the other way was in a Nestorian way. So what

1789
02:04:56,039 --> 02:04:59,520
happened was the tragedy was that after the Council of Calcidon,

1790
02:05:00,600 --> 02:05:02,319
in the West, by the way, still kind of did this.

1791
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:06,920
They will the West will erroneously at times view the

1792
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:10,520
incarnation as an addition formula. So they'll view it like

1793
02:05:11,159 --> 02:05:17,880
like who is who is Jesus after the incarnation? And

1794
02:05:18,159 --> 02:05:20,199
this is why this is the problem's too. This is

1795
02:05:20,239 --> 02:05:22,279
why there were later councils is because there's two different

1796
02:05:22,279 --> 02:05:26,239
ways to read the tone of Pope Leo at the council.

1797
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:31,680
So there's this is the wrong way to do it,

1798
02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:38,840
which many, many, many Western and Protestants read it this way,

1799
02:05:38,960 --> 02:05:58,000
and this is Jesus is basically an addition formula, and

1800
02:05:58,039 --> 02:06:01,760
they'll read it like this. They'll read it like Pope

1801
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:06,359
Leo's ton teaches that Jesus is a human nature plus

1802
02:06:06,399 --> 02:06:11,359
his divine nature and this equals divine person Jesus. Now,

1803
02:06:11,359 --> 02:06:17,079
everybody who's Orthodox and who is familiar with Nestorianism knows

1804
02:06:17,159 --> 02:06:20,039
that that is wrong. That is the wrong way to

1805
02:06:20,119 --> 02:06:27,119
read pop Leo's tone. But many of the Monophysites did

1806
02:06:27,119 --> 02:06:30,439
read it this way and they were correct. They're not correct,

1807
02:06:30,479 --> 02:06:32,319
but I'm saying they were correct when they said, if

1808
02:06:32,319 --> 02:06:36,199
that's what Leo means, this is wrong because this is

1809
02:06:36,199 --> 02:06:39,039
not right. Jesus is not the product of some addition

1810
02:06:39,199 --> 02:06:44,119
formula to give us a divine person Jesus. Right, that's

1811
02:06:44,239 --> 02:06:48,119
not right because it's not a divine nature that smushes

1812
02:06:48,159 --> 02:06:52,960
with a human nature. Or the divine nature did not

1813
02:06:53,039 --> 02:06:57,560
become incarnate, did it. No, it did not. It's a

1814
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:12,840
divine person from all eternity who assumes an impersonal human nature. Right.

1815
02:07:13,479 --> 02:07:15,520
So this is the correct formula. This is the correct

1816
02:07:15,520 --> 02:07:18,880
way to read it. Jesus is a divine person from

1817
02:07:18,920 --> 02:07:21,920
all eternity, right, second person of the Godhead, and he

1818
02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:26,199
assumed an impersonal human nature. So this is why Saint

1819
02:07:26,239 --> 02:07:31,399
Cyril was correct against Nestorias to say that the sole

1820
02:07:31,560 --> 02:07:36,560
subject of all the actions of Christ. There's only one

1821
02:07:36,640 --> 02:07:39,960
subject present for every action of Christ. Whether it's being crucified,

1822
02:07:40,279 --> 02:07:43,520
whether it's walking on water, whether it's the breaking of

1823
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:48,000
the bread the loaves. The only person, the only person

1824
02:07:48,039 --> 02:07:54,960
present is the divine person. That's why we're not in historians, right.

1825
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:58,800
So this is Saint Cyril's basic model here. So now

1826
02:07:59,079 --> 02:08:02,800
one could read then the tone of Pope Leo at

1827
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:07,479
Councildon in either the Karellian way or in the addition

1828
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:14,000
formula way, which is dumb and Nestorian. So that's why

1829
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:17,520
there's later councils which came along to say, no, it's

1830
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:23,880
not we're not talking about an addition formula where a

1831
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:28,800
divine nature plus a human nature equals the Jesus, the

1832
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:33,319
divine Jesus. That's not that's not that's not right. So

1833
02:08:33,479 --> 02:08:36,279
that's why they got mad. They said, that's what that

1834
02:08:36,359 --> 02:08:38,680
council means. We don't want any of that. That's an historian.

1835
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:43,920
Leo is basically reaffirming Astorianism. So then we get the

1836
02:08:44,359 --> 02:08:49,039
monofusus that Jesus essentially is one incarnate nature of this

1837
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:52,520
of there's one incarnate nature of the logos. And the

1838
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:56,359
preason for that is also because unfortunately Cyril did use

1839
02:08:56,439 --> 02:08:59,880
that phrase, but he used that phrase when he was

1840
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:04,239
trying to stress what he talked about as in hypostatized.

1841
02:09:05,199 --> 02:09:14,039
This is an important term in Eastern theology, okay, And

1842
02:09:14,079 --> 02:09:16,600
what he means is that it's the same point he

1843
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:21,800
was making when he talked about Jesus as the sole

1844
02:09:21,920 --> 02:09:26,079
subject of all of the actions of Christ being a

1845
02:09:26,119 --> 02:09:33,720
divine person. There is no human person in Jesus at all.

1846
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:38,239
There's a fully human nature, but no human person, And

1847
02:09:38,239 --> 02:09:42,199
we do that to guard the salvation as a whole.

1848
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:47,640
Everything hinges on this. Why, because the only person present

1849
02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:51,319
for all of those actions is a divine person who's

1850
02:09:51,359 --> 02:09:53,880
in hypostatized in a human nature. So, in other words,

1851
02:09:54,720 --> 02:09:58,039
when Cyril says there's one incarnate nature, he's talking about

1852
02:09:58,039 --> 02:10:00,359
the fact that when Jesus is walking around doing what

1853
02:10:00,399 --> 02:10:06,560
he's doing, there's only one Jesus there. And any of

1854
02:10:06,680 --> 02:10:10,279
the actions of God, the energies of God, whatever, they're

1855
02:10:10,279 --> 02:10:15,119
all personal, they're all in hypostatized. In other words, there's

1856
02:10:15,159 --> 02:10:20,199
no abstract divine nature. There's no abstracted Jesus. The only

1857
02:10:20,279 --> 02:10:24,279
Jesus is the one who came in the mode of

1858
02:10:24,359 --> 02:10:29,199
human nature. The sole subject of all the actions of

1859
02:10:29,279 --> 02:10:34,359
Christ is one divine person, the eternal logos. And this

1860
02:10:34,439 --> 02:10:37,600
is why we're not a Nestorian. This is why Jesus

1861
02:10:37,640 --> 02:10:39,800
is not a human person. This is why he's an

1862
02:10:39,840 --> 02:10:43,039
eternal person. He's the logos, he's divine. This is why

1863
02:10:43,039 --> 02:10:45,800
there's no hippie Jesus, there's no buddy Jesus, because he

1864
02:10:45,920 --> 02:10:51,800
is the pantocrater, the eternal Lord. Now he's fully human.

1865
02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:58,039
He cries, he hungers, he experiences and has and possesses

1866
02:10:58,119 --> 02:11:03,560
full humanity as a human soul. He has a human will,

1867
02:11:04,439 --> 02:11:12,920
he has a human body, flesh right. But his humanity

1868
02:11:13,039 --> 02:11:17,600
is human. I mean, excuse me. It's not fallen, it's incorruptible.

1869
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:23,520
It's essentially the new atom. So when we understand that,

1870
02:11:23,680 --> 02:11:27,880
then we understand that any other scheme even and this

1871
02:11:28,000 --> 02:11:29,920
is really bad. In the Protestants, they don't even know

1872
02:11:30,119 --> 02:11:32,960
that they're a Nestorian because they don't know this whole debate.

1873
02:11:33,399 --> 02:11:37,880
They don't realize that in order for their their redemption

1874
02:11:38,039 --> 02:11:42,119
theory to be true, penal redemption theory, the penal atonement

1875
02:11:42,319 --> 02:11:46,520
view of Protestantism, they need to have the father essentially

1876
02:11:47,359 --> 02:11:51,640
condemn the son right. So if the father damns the

1877
02:11:51,680 --> 02:11:58,039
son in the in the Crucifixion. How is this possible, Well,

1878
02:11:58,079 --> 02:11:59,760
he either has to be a human person who gets

1879
02:11:59,840 --> 02:12:03,319
damn and then we're back to the Nestorianism, or it's

1880
02:12:03,399 --> 02:12:06,479
the father splitting the son and damning him and that

1881
02:12:06,600 --> 02:12:10,359
the Trinity gets severed, which is completely retarded. So penal

1882
02:12:11,199 --> 02:12:15,960
substitutionary atonement theory in the reformed classical Lutheran sense is

1883
02:12:16,039 --> 02:12:18,720
utterly blasphemous and not true. So that's the That is

1884
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:21,600
the easiest way, by the way, through refute Protestantism. But

1885
02:12:21,800 --> 02:12:25,000
most Protestants don't even they're not even they're not anywhere

1886
02:12:25,000 --> 02:12:26,680
near this. They have no idea when you start talking

1887
02:12:26,720 --> 02:12:30,880
about in hypostatized and they don't know what you're talking about.

1888
02:12:32,359 --> 02:12:36,600
And this is in the theology of Saint Cyril, is

1889
02:12:36,640 --> 02:12:41,079
called hindosis henotic theology. So I'm going to tell you

1890
02:12:42,079 --> 02:12:49,199
the book for this, all right, So this is important

1891
02:12:49,239 --> 02:13:10,520
for understanding Saint Cyril hinnosis henotic theology. And the best

1892
02:13:10,520 --> 02:13:13,960
book for this is this book. Well, actually there's two,

1893
02:13:14,039 --> 02:13:23,800
but John mcguckin's book is really good because, Yeah, when

1894
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:26,000
I became orthodox, I kind of struggle with this issue,

1895
02:13:26,479 --> 02:13:28,800
or when I was first reading orthodox I should say, well,

1896
02:13:28,840 --> 02:13:32,199
what about the Oriental ord. Maybe they're right. If you

1897
02:13:32,279 --> 02:13:36,199
read mcguccan's book, Saint Cyril of Alexander and the Christological Controversy,

1898
02:13:36,199 --> 02:13:39,039
it will settle this issue. There's also right here the

1899
02:13:39,119 --> 02:13:44,319
Unity of Christ by Saint Cyril, and anybody who reads

1900
02:13:44,359 --> 02:13:49,479
these will completely leave Protestanism. That alone is enough to

1901
02:13:49,520 --> 02:13:56,439
annihilate all forms of Calvinism and Protestanism when you understand

1902
02:13:56,600 --> 02:14:04,479
their penal substitution moment nonsense, because it's not trinitarian. You

1903
02:14:04,520 --> 02:14:06,920
have to be anti trinitarian to be consistent with their

1904
02:14:07,439 --> 02:14:10,800
penal substitution view of what happens to the Father and

1905
02:14:10,840 --> 02:14:17,439
the Son and the crucifixion. It's just it's completely retarded. Also,

1906
02:14:18,279 --> 02:14:31,760
you want to read Saint Maximus, his small work, his

1907
02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:47,640
Dispute with Paris, because the Monophysite problem becomes the Monothelite problem.

1908
02:14:47,880 --> 02:14:51,279
There's one will and energy in Christ. Right, well, maybe

1909
02:14:51,279 --> 02:14:54,960
there's not one nature, but there's one will and energy

1910
02:14:55,119 --> 02:15:01,600
in Christ the disputations with Puris. So what those two

1911
02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:16,720
works will show you is the how it's based on dialectics.

1912
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:23,479
The Monothelites, like the Monophysites, had a dialectical theology, where

1913
02:15:23,520 --> 02:15:30,800
they felt like human nature was essentially in natural tension

1914
02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:34,239
with God and God's grace. And by the way, guess what,

1915
02:15:34,560 --> 02:15:39,479
that's what Calvinists teach, right, So the Monothelites also taught

1916
02:15:39,479 --> 02:15:42,399
that there was one energy in Christ, one energy in

1917
02:15:42,439 --> 02:15:45,399
one will. Well, one energy in Christ means that in

1918
02:15:45,439 --> 02:15:50,479
the incarnation, the divine energy, the divine nature, the divine power,

1919
02:15:50,680 --> 02:15:55,359
overcomes and in a way supplants the human and that

1920
02:15:55,399 --> 02:15:58,640
means that in salvation. Right, you can see how this

1921
02:15:58,720 --> 02:16:03,439
leads to Calvinism, the divine energy, divine work supplants and

1922
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:09,079
basically replaces the human will and energy. Why because humans

1923
02:16:09,079 --> 02:16:12,359
are so fallen that their natural state is always in

1924
02:16:12,439 --> 02:16:16,800
perpetual tension with God. Total de pravity. Well no, the

1925
02:16:17,479 --> 02:16:22,359
as Saint Maximus says, grace is completely natural to man.

1926
02:16:22,479 --> 02:16:25,920
There's nothing more natural to man than grace. And that's

1927
02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:35,399
because we don't believe in total pravity anyway, Thank you,

1928
02:16:35,479 --> 02:16:38,399
Ron Park. Also, if Free Choice in Maximus Confessor is

1929
02:16:38,440 --> 02:16:41,399
still available, it also highlights these but it has been

1930
02:16:41,760 --> 02:16:46,920
It looks like there's a paperback for fifty bucks. Okay, yeah,

1931
02:16:47,239 --> 02:16:48,920
so this was out of print forever and ever and ever.

1932
02:16:52,280 --> 02:16:55,360
But it also now that's not it. It also makes

1933
02:16:55,399 --> 02:16:59,479
the same points yeah by doctor Farrell back when he

1934
02:16:59,479 --> 02:17:02,719
was Orthodox, free choice and maximous confessor also makes all

1935
02:17:02,799 --> 02:17:14,239
these same points. So there is that and that that

1936
02:17:14,399 --> 02:17:22,079
solves the issues with Oriental Orthodoxy and uh, Coptic stuff.

1937
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:26,120
By the way, Coptics are so goofous. Uh if you

1938
02:17:26,200 --> 02:17:30,120
read Pope this is how dumb Coptic stuff is. Pope Shanalda,

1939
02:17:30,440 --> 02:17:36,120
who is the I think I mentioned this on one

1940
02:17:36,120 --> 02:17:46,600
of the other streams. Oh crap, I think I said,

1941
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:48,399
hold on, it's gonna take me a second to find it.

1942
02:17:57,600 --> 02:18:02,000
He doesn't believe in deification. He thinks that he thinks

1943
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:08,000
dedification is a pagan So let's see. I think this

1944
02:18:08,159 --> 02:18:11,799
is it. It sounds like a Baptist wrote this, like

1945
02:18:11,879 --> 02:18:14,959
this is the degree of theology that you get in

1946
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:21,120
the I mean, these Coptic churches are. It's kind of sad. Actually,

1947
02:18:21,120 --> 02:18:24,120
I shouldn't be, because they have cut themselves off for

1948
02:18:24,159 --> 02:18:26,959
all these centuries and they basically just became a kind

1949
02:18:27,000 --> 02:18:31,680
of a state church. I'm not saying that the church

1950
02:18:31,719 --> 02:18:34,200
and state shouldn't have a relationship. I'm just saying, when

1951
02:18:34,239 --> 02:18:39,280
you consider. All right, let me dig it up because

1952
02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:45,600
this is important to see. All right, where did I

1953
02:18:45,680 --> 02:18:53,920
say that to you? I'll see he's got an essay

1954
02:18:54,079 --> 02:18:58,079
about against deification. Could you imagine this an Orthodox so

1955
02:18:58,159 --> 02:19:16,879
called writer against deification? Oh? Here it is.

1956
02:19:20,520 --> 02:19:37,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, Uh, I guess I'll put the link here.

1957
02:19:37,479 --> 02:19:39,280
Speaker 1: This is how silly. Yeah, I'll put it in the

1958
02:19:39,360 --> 02:19:44,959
in the description here. All right. He thinks deification literally

1959
02:19:45,079 --> 02:19:48,120
is pagan like. It's almost like you're supposed to be

1960
02:19:48,159 --> 02:19:50,920
the successor. You think you're the successor of Saint Athanasius,

1961
02:19:52,799 --> 02:19:55,120
and you have a treatise that sounds like it was

1962
02:19:55,120 --> 02:20:01,600
written by a landmark Baptist against deification. I mean it's

1963
02:20:01,719 --> 02:20:11,639
like what so yeah, I mean there's little to nothing

1964
02:20:11,719 --> 02:20:14,600
in these Coptic groups. And by the way, Ancient Faith

1965
02:20:14,639 --> 02:20:17,840
and all those clowns, they act like Coptics are all Orthodox. No,

1966
02:20:17,920 --> 02:20:20,959
I'm sorry, but somebody who argues against dedification is not Orthodox,

1967
02:20:22,680 --> 02:20:29,079
so thought audit. I don't know what that is. I'm

1968
02:20:29,120 --> 02:20:32,760
guessing it's a kind of a funny thing against thoughts.

1969
02:20:34,520 --> 02:20:37,680
Karl Marx there, thank you, child of Grace five dollars.

1970
02:20:37,760 --> 02:20:40,479
What happened to the Jerusalem Church? Do you mean the

1971
02:20:40,520 --> 02:20:44,360
Patriarchate of Jerusalem or do you mean the church in

1972
02:20:44,440 --> 02:20:49,280
Acts fifteen? So sorry, I'm not sure what Jerusalem Church

1973
02:20:49,319 --> 02:20:54,680
you mean. Joline Kay, ten dollars. Thank you, Matthew Kitchen.

1974
02:20:54,719 --> 02:20:57,760
Have a blessed liturgy tomorrow. Everyone. Thank you, Matthew. You two.

1975
02:20:59,440 --> 02:21:02,360
David Daily own ten dollars. Any thoughts on Eastern Right Catholics,

1976
02:21:02,360 --> 02:21:05,440
in particular the Melchite Catholic Church, Greek Caeloic Church that

1977
02:21:05,520 --> 02:21:08,760
hold the first seven councils, Well, okay, well that doesn't

1978
02:21:08,760 --> 02:21:11,000
make any sense because you can't be a Roman Catholic

1979
02:21:12,280 --> 02:21:15,159
and only hold to seven councils as orthodoxy. This is

1980
02:21:15,200 --> 02:21:21,639
why the stupidity of Eastern Rite Catholicism, because the Tridentine

1981
02:21:21,680 --> 02:21:25,680
doctrines are binding on the entire church. You can't be

1982
02:21:25,760 --> 02:21:29,479
a Melchite or Eastern Right Catholic and reject purgatory. You

1983
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:33,959
can't reject, you know, the definitions of Trent. They're binding

1984
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:36,040
on the entire church. That's the point of the papacy.

1985
02:21:36,559 --> 02:21:40,639
So it's a position that is completely double minded and

1986
02:21:40,719 --> 02:21:46,440
makes no sense. Two dollars Doorman three to sixty Galactic

1987
02:21:46,479 --> 02:21:50,559
Emperor sound something from DBZ, Yeah, it does. I guess,

1988
02:21:50,600 --> 02:21:54,760
so five dollars. Greetings from the Schofield Belt, that is

1989
02:21:54,799 --> 02:21:58,120
the Bible belt. But the Schofield Bible Belt. I guess

1990
02:21:58,639 --> 02:22:02,399
that's a good one, white top high speed drifter two dollars.

1991
02:22:03,760 --> 02:22:07,120
Is Orthodox Faith tied to ethnicity? No, it's not, because

1992
02:22:07,440 --> 02:22:11,040
the church is Catholic but is also ethnic. If you

1993
02:22:11,079 --> 02:22:14,360
read the Canons of Chalcedon, you'll see its exact same way.

1994
02:22:14,479 --> 02:22:18,520
They all meet together, and there are ethnic bishops talking

1995
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:23,200
about their respective ethnicities and metropolitans and groups and areas.

1996
02:22:24,159 --> 02:22:27,639
But that does not mean that we identify the church

1997
02:22:27,719 --> 02:22:31,120
with ethnicity, even though ethnicity is an important component of

1998
02:22:31,159 --> 02:22:34,000
the church, just like gender. Gender is an important component

1999
02:22:34,040 --> 02:22:37,079
in the church. It can't be wiped away or thrown away.

2000
02:22:38,399 --> 02:22:45,840
But we also wouldn't identify the Church with gender. But

2001
02:22:46,000 --> 02:22:48,920
the reason that the Orthodox faith has historically been tied

2002
02:22:48,959 --> 02:22:52,440
to ethnicity is because the kings of various countries converted.

2003
02:22:54,799 --> 02:22:56,799
If natural theology is bunk, how did an aristotol or

2004
02:22:56,799 --> 02:23:02,840
reason to the uncaused cause? Well, the question here is

2005
02:23:03,639 --> 02:23:06,360
what is the deity that he calls the uncaused caused?

2006
02:23:06,479 --> 02:23:09,079
Did you have you looked at the fact that Aristotle

2007
02:23:09,120 --> 02:23:13,399
caused the uncaused cause multiple gods in certain sections of

2008
02:23:13,440 --> 02:23:16,280
his writings, and in other sections he calls it one God.

2009
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:22,319
So Aristotle's uncaused cause is thought thinking itself. God is

2010
02:23:22,440 --> 02:23:26,680
not thought thinking itself. God is not the monad of Plato.

2011
02:23:27,280 --> 02:23:31,440
God is not any of the stupid demonic doctrines of

2012
02:23:31,479 --> 02:23:35,799
the Greek philosophers period. He's not any of them. So

2013
02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:38,959
those arguments don't work, and they're not any good. Now

2014
02:23:39,719 --> 02:23:42,719
is it true to say there's a first cause? Correct?

2015
02:23:42,879 --> 02:23:46,799
There is, because I can, as an Orthodox person interpret

2016
02:23:46,799 --> 02:23:52,000
that according to revelation, according to tradition, to scripture, as

2017
02:23:52,040 --> 02:23:55,879
God is the first cause. Right, But who is that God? Well,

2018
02:23:55,959 --> 02:23:58,360
if you're Orthodox, he has a believe it's the Trinity.

2019
02:23:58,479 --> 02:24:00,760
None of these other groups believe it is. So I

2020
02:24:00,799 --> 02:24:04,879
do not have common cause with a Muslim and a

2021
02:24:04,959 --> 02:24:10,680
Jehovah's witness and a whatever other goofy sect in proving God,

2022
02:24:11,319 --> 02:24:13,920
because we don't believe in the same God. So you

2023
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:17,440
can't have an apologetic argument on the side of a

2024
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:20,920
Jehovah's witness and a Muslim and an Orthodox person altogether

2025
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:24,120
arguing against an atheist, because it doesn't work because the

2026
02:24:24,360 --> 02:24:28,239
arguments that you're trying to prove, you're trying to convert

2027
02:24:28,280 --> 02:24:31,239
the atheists too, are not to generic theism, but to

2028
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:37,040
the theism of revelation. The god of Exodus three fourteen,

2029
02:24:37,079 --> 02:24:38,760
who says I am that I am, is not the

2030
02:24:38,840 --> 02:24:44,920
uncaused cause of Aristotle. So there you go. And if

2031
02:24:45,000 --> 02:24:47,239
you read Saint Maximus, and if you read Father stan

2032
02:24:47,280 --> 02:24:49,680
Eloy's book, you'll see why natural theology is not true.

2033
02:24:50,200 --> 02:24:54,920
And natural theology leads to the atheism of Rome. That's

2034
02:24:54,959 --> 02:25:00,559
why Rome is a perennial Vatican to ecumenicist organization because

2035
02:25:00,600 --> 02:25:06,000
it's based on natural theology, which is which is faulty.

2036
02:25:08,000 --> 02:25:10,360
So how did Aristotle reason to the uncaused cause? Well,

2037
02:25:10,360 --> 02:25:14,040
because not everything the unbeliever says is false, right, Paul

2038
02:25:14,079 --> 02:25:16,040
says in Romans one, everybody knows that there's a god.

2039
02:25:16,840 --> 02:25:19,239
But hey, by the way, you may show here's the

2040
02:25:19,280 --> 02:25:22,680
easiest way to show you natural theology is bunk. Hey,

2041
02:25:22,680 --> 02:25:25,760
I believe in natural theology. There's one divine cause and

2042
02:25:25,799 --> 02:25:32,799
he's Satan. Yeah. See, Can I join with a Satanist

2043
02:25:32,799 --> 02:25:36,600
who believes that there's one cause for the universe? Of

2044
02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:40,319
course not. So that's retarded, and any smart atheist will

2045
02:25:40,840 --> 02:25:45,120
completely dissect natural theology and reasoning back to an uncaused

2046
02:25:45,159 --> 02:25:47,760
cause to show how stupid it is, and they should.

2047
02:25:47,959 --> 02:25:54,239
They should one more quick question. All wait, let's see

2048
02:25:54,399 --> 02:25:56,680
slav k thank you for good stuff. Why are accumenists

2049
02:25:56,719 --> 02:26:01,319
against proselytizing and less than enthusiastic about mission work because

2050
02:26:01,319 --> 02:26:05,040
they're not Orthodox? Because you can't accept We should say

2051
02:26:05,120 --> 02:26:10,040
too that there are different senses to ecumenism. So originally

2052
02:26:10,079 --> 02:26:16,079
ecumenism meant ecumenical councils, right, the word ecumenism comes from

2053
02:26:16,360 --> 02:26:22,159
acumenical councils. The acumenical councils were all called to reconcile

2054
02:26:22,239 --> 02:26:27,879
the church right in terms of debates and disputes. Now,

2055
02:26:27,959 --> 02:26:30,680
the ecumenists believe that the church is not one though,

2056
02:26:30,719 --> 02:26:33,760
so they essentially err on the doctor of the Church,

2057
02:26:33,760 --> 02:26:36,479
and they don't believe that there's historically one Orthodox church.

2058
02:26:36,600 --> 02:26:39,680
That's why it doesn't work with Orthodoxy or any group

2059
02:26:40,040 --> 02:26:46,159
that claims to be the true church. Now, original ecumenism,

2060
02:26:46,159 --> 02:26:49,360
what they even call the Acumenism of return, is what

2061
02:26:49,399 --> 02:26:53,040
the modern ecumenists have rejected. So there have been periods

2062
02:26:53,040 --> 02:26:57,719
when Orthodox theologians went into ecumenism many decades ago, with

2063
02:26:57,920 --> 02:27:00,639
the intent of the Ecumenism of Return, which was to

2064
02:27:00,639 --> 02:27:02,920
convert people. And that's not wrong. That's what it's for.

2065
02:27:03,319 --> 02:27:05,479
When I go on shows with atheists or with Roman

2066
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:10,040
Catholics and I engage in or an evangelical in a

2067
02:27:10,159 --> 02:27:13,159
position of agreement and then we talk about other issues.

2068
02:27:13,239 --> 02:27:16,040
I'm interested in the ecumenism of return. That's why I

2069
02:27:16,079 --> 02:27:20,280
do apologetics. The ecumenists do not do apologetics because they

2070
02:27:20,280 --> 02:27:22,360
don't believe in the ecumenism of return, and in fact

2071
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:29,440
it's a stumbling block. So the churches, like middle of

2072
02:27:29,479 --> 02:27:31,479
the road type groups that will, on the one hand,

2073
02:27:31,479 --> 02:27:33,879
will do apologetics and try to convert Protestants and people

2074
02:27:33,879 --> 02:27:37,040
like that and atheists. Right, they're correct in that regard,

2075
02:27:37,040 --> 02:27:40,600
but they also want to placate the ecumenists and not

2076
02:27:40,639 --> 02:27:46,200
convert people. Now, many of the handbook of that, for example,

2077
02:27:46,239 --> 02:27:49,719
the Greek Orthodox Archidiocese of America, it's handbooks says do

2078
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:56,520
not convert people. That is not true. You cannot tell

2079
02:27:56,600 --> 02:28:00,760
people not to convert people. That is apostasy. So they're wrong.

2080
02:28:01,239 --> 02:28:04,360
So the ecumenism of I'm okay, You're okay is different

2081
02:28:04,360 --> 02:28:09,680
from the ecumenism of return, that is, convert become you must.

2082
02:28:11,479 --> 02:28:14,920
So that's why they don't do mission work, is because

2083
02:28:14,959 --> 02:28:17,200
they don't believe the gospel. Jesus says, go out and

2084
02:28:17,200 --> 02:28:21,000
convert the nations, and they are essentially apostate. So it

2085
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:24,079
depends on which acumenism you mean. If you mean the

2086
02:28:24,079 --> 02:28:28,239
ones that are against proselytizing, they're wrong, and the fact

2087
02:28:28,239 --> 02:28:31,799
that they don't proselytize, and the entire church, entire history

2088
02:28:31,840 --> 02:28:35,079
of the church is proselytizing. Church fathers debating with heretics

2089
02:28:35,079 --> 02:28:39,399
to convert them proves them wrong their phonies. One more

2090
02:28:39,479 --> 02:28:42,559
quick question is the shroud of turn legit. I don't don't.

2091
02:28:42,840 --> 02:28:46,440
I don't follow that. I've never found that. Plus it's

2092
02:28:46,479 --> 02:28:48,360
not so what if it was, like, what does that prove?

2093
02:28:49,399 --> 02:28:51,159
I mean that kind of I'm not saying there aren't miracles,

2094
02:28:51,200 --> 02:28:53,719
but you know, what does Jesus say. Jesus says, a

2095
02:28:53,799 --> 02:28:59,120
wicked generation first after miracles, and no miracle will be

2096
02:28:59,159 --> 02:29:05,040
given to it of getting feedback again here, So I

2097
02:29:05,079 --> 02:29:08,840
don't pay attention to the shroud of Turin or any

2098
02:29:08,879 --> 02:29:10,719
of that because it's not gonna. I mean, if you

2099
02:29:10,760 --> 02:29:14,879
if you already believe and have faith, then you're going

2100
02:29:14,920 --> 02:29:21,239
to interpret it as something vindicating Christianity. I don't know.

2101
02:29:22,079 --> 02:29:23,959
I don't know. I'm not I'm not into the shroud

2102
02:29:23,959 --> 02:29:27,239
of turn stuff. So could it be legit? I guess

2103
02:29:27,239 --> 02:29:33,360
it could be, but I mean I don't. It's like

2104
02:29:33,399 --> 02:29:38,479
with the people who argue to me, it just it

2105
02:29:38,639 --> 02:29:43,719
just gives too much credence to bad argumentation because it's

2106
02:29:43,719 --> 02:29:47,399
not a good apologetic argument because you're never going to

2107
02:29:48,200 --> 02:29:55,000
get people to do DNA analysis on some blanket in

2108
02:29:55,079 --> 02:29:57,600
a church in fr Answer or wherever it is. I mean,

2109
02:29:57,600 --> 02:29:59,120
how is that gonna get That's not going to convince

2110
02:29:59,159 --> 02:30:07,159
anybody anyway. But does that mean that I think it's

2111
02:30:07,479 --> 02:30:09,760
not legit. I don't have any opinion on it. I've

2112
02:30:09,799 --> 02:30:14,799
never really paid attention to it. Benjamincollins One pound advice

2113
02:30:14,879 --> 02:30:21,280
on avoiding false information? False? What kind of false information?

2114
02:30:21,399 --> 02:30:24,200
I mean, there's not really an easy answer to a

2115
02:30:24,280 --> 02:30:26,840
really broad question. So it depends. I guess it depends

2116
02:30:26,840 --> 02:30:30,959
on if you mean false theological information. You know, there's

2117
02:30:31,000 --> 02:30:33,639
just not an easy example except to you know, trust

2118
02:30:33,680 --> 02:30:38,479
God and seek the truth, and you know, Jesus says

2119
02:30:38,559 --> 02:30:41,879
my sheep will hear my voice, and I know them,

2120
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:45,319
they know me, and they will be let into truth.

2121
02:30:45,440 --> 02:30:48,000
So God is good and he's not going to lead

2122
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:50,319
you astray if you seek him out with all your heart.

2123
02:30:51,559 --> 02:30:56,239
So when it comes to ferreting out trimp false information,

2124
02:30:56,479 --> 02:30:59,719
I mean God gave us logic and reason for a reason,

2125
02:31:00,680 --> 02:31:05,440
and you know, knowing basic logic, knowing basic facts about

2126
02:31:05,639 --> 02:31:07,639
how to reason and argue, that's one of the things

2127
02:31:07,639 --> 02:31:10,959
that we promote here. That's a big way to not

2128
02:31:11,120 --> 02:31:14,879
be duped and to be able to sift through true

2129
02:31:14,879 --> 02:31:18,959
and false information. Right, So logic is not antithetical to God.

2130
02:31:19,000 --> 02:31:21,079
It's not an enemy of God. It's not That's is

2131
02:31:21,159 --> 02:31:26,719
all modern pietistic nonsense that scientism promotes and that purveyors

2132
02:31:26,760 --> 02:31:30,799
of Protestantism promote, or Pietism. They say that the faith

2133
02:31:30,840 --> 02:31:34,040
is not logical, it's incoherent. Just take a leap again,

2134
02:31:34,120 --> 02:31:36,079
How contrary is that to what we read in Saint

2135
02:31:36,120 --> 02:31:40,840
John Damascus when he writes very lengthy philosophical and apologetic treatises.

2136
02:31:41,520 --> 02:31:44,319
That's the tradition that we follow here. We're not interested

2137
02:31:44,319 --> 02:31:47,239
in Pietism. So I would say just try to ground

2138
02:31:47,280 --> 02:31:50,159
yourself in the church. Fathers. Try to ground yourself in scripture,

2139
02:31:50,799 --> 02:31:53,760
read your Orthodox, study Bible every day, try to pray

2140
02:31:53,799 --> 02:31:57,479
every day, go to the liturgy, and you will know.

2141
02:31:57,879 --> 02:32:01,639
You will know when people are telling you false information.

2142
02:32:02,760 --> 02:32:05,799
But now if you're talking about analyzing geopolitics or the

2143
02:32:05,840 --> 02:32:09,200
news media, that's a little more you know, that takes

2144
02:32:09,200 --> 02:32:11,920
a little more practice. You know, I've been doing that

2145
02:32:11,959 --> 02:32:14,479
for a long time, so I can pretty well spot,

2146
02:32:14,639 --> 02:32:19,319
you know, fake news, fake information, false reports, because I've

2147
02:32:19,319 --> 02:32:21,280
studied psyops and I know how a lot of that

2148
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:23,959
stuff works. So it comes a little easier to me

2149
02:32:24,120 --> 02:32:27,159
just because I'm I have a pretty good trained eye

2150
02:32:27,200 --> 02:32:32,959
at spotting nonsense in the news or or propaganda. How

2151
02:32:32,959 --> 02:32:38,680
to spot propaganda and spotting phonies in terms of you know,

2152
02:32:40,680 --> 02:32:44,959
different organizations like you know, why won't you go on

2153
02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:47,920
this or that show? Well, maybe I can spot phonies.

2154
02:32:47,959 --> 02:32:50,719
That's why I'm not saying that everybody has told no

2155
02:32:50,879 --> 02:32:54,600
to the phony. I'm just saying that I have a

2156
02:32:54,639 --> 02:32:57,120
pretty good track record of people that I'm not associated

2157
02:32:57,159 --> 02:33:03,600
with being phonies, so I make the decision who I

2158
02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:05,680
want to associate with. So I would say you gotta

2159
02:33:05,719 --> 02:33:07,760
do the same thing. Can just use basic common sense

2160
02:33:07,799 --> 02:33:11,319
most of the time. It'll be fine again. God gave

2161
02:33:11,399 --> 02:33:15,799
us common sense for reason. It's not antithetical to theology.

2162
02:33:17,360 --> 02:33:20,520
Randy Churchill fifty dollars, Thank you. Randy. Did the term

2163
02:33:20,559 --> 02:33:23,600
federal referring to Adam's headship as a term come to

2164
02:33:23,680 --> 02:33:30,399
existence after Calvin? Is there a historical understanding of federal

2165
02:33:30,440 --> 02:33:34,079
headship or is it just a way to refer to

2166
02:33:34,120 --> 02:33:40,000
the juridical understanding of protest servation. That's a good question.

2167
02:33:40,040 --> 02:33:43,000
I mean, I don't think the term federal itself would

2168
02:33:43,159 --> 02:33:51,520
be necessarily excluded from patristic discourse. I mean, you know,

2169
02:33:51,639 --> 02:33:54,000
the way athanacious and on the incarnation, the way he

2170
02:33:54,040 --> 02:33:56,159
speaks of the role of Adam and the fall in

2171
02:33:56,239 --> 02:33:59,600
Christ is there's nothing wrong with legal language. I mean,

2172
02:33:59,639 --> 02:34:02,479
paul Us this legal legal language. It's just that we

2173
02:34:02,600 --> 02:34:03,319
can't understand