1
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,879
Speaker 1: What is a fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley coming

2
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,320
at you with the official start of the twenty twenty

3
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,399
four twenty twenty five NBA season look Ahead train. We

4
00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:27,320
begin with the Washington Wizards, which means we get to

5
00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:30,519
talk to the homie and the discord legend, Matt Maderno.

6
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,600
Follow him on Twitter at m Att m O D

7
00:00:33,719 --> 00:00:35,920
d E R n oh. He's the host of the

8
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,920
Believe in Wizards podcast with former Wizard Johati White. They

9
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,759
do a great job over there, and he also hosts

10
00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:43,600
the DMV Hoops podcast does some stuff for Bullets Forever.

11
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,399
He is awesome. We get into all things Wizards. This

12
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,119
is great and I would just like to reiterate the

13
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,399
hoops that Grant and I are jumping through to make

14
00:00:51,399 --> 00:00:53,520
sure that this series gets out there. We cover every

15
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,359
single team in depth, getting their own podcast with a

16
00:00:56,399 --> 00:01:00,320
local expert. It's pretty trying this year compared to years

17
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,039
when looking at our schedule, so please come out show support.

18
00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:04,799
If you're new around these parts. We have a lot

19
00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:06,920
of fun around here, covering the entire NBA all year long.

20
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,079
Subscribe across all platforms, Spotify, Apple, Stitchers. That's still out

21
00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:13,719
there YouTube, the whole nine. We appreciate all the support

22
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,519
any new listeners that come through this, and of course

23
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,840
the ogs. As always, let's get to talking some wizards

24
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,120
with the legendary and again Discord Legend. Join our discord

25
00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:26,079
links in the podcast and YouTube description. Mister Matt Maderna, Matt,

26
00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:28,799
Welcome back to the Hardwood Knox Podcast. I think is

27
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,760
this your third You've been on the pod more than

28
00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:33,400
three times, but is this your third look ahead? Because

29
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,280
last year wasn't.

30
00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:36,079
Speaker 2: The first third look ahead? Yeah? I think so.

31
00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:38,560
Speaker 1: Now it's your fault. I say that to everyone who's

32
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,560
done it three times. The first two I can trick you,

33
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,920
but now it's on you. You came back. You know

34
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,719
what you're in for, and I appreciate it, obviously, but

35
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,799
I like to deflect the responsibility of it onto you now.

36
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,879
Speaker 2: Like any good leader should. I think that's kind of

37
00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:52,920
where we're at in the world right now. But yeah,

38
00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:55,000
thanks for having me. I tell you this every time,

39
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,719
and I mean it every time. I listen to the

40
00:01:56,719 --> 00:01:58,640
pod religiously, so it's just cool to be on here,

41
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,040
and thanks for having me back again.

42
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 1: I love it. I really appreciate when people who I

43
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,079
listen to or I'm having on his guests also say

44
00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:07,640
they listen to, so thank you that that means a

45
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,879
lot to both Grant and myself. Let's talk about these

46
00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:13,439
Wizards though. So we're like a little bit more than

47
00:02:13,439 --> 00:02:15,960
a year into the rebuild. I remember this wasn't this

48
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,759
time last summer, but we did probably one of the

49
00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:21,639
few people that did like emergency Tommy Shepherd stuff right

50
00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:22,280
like that.

51
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 2: For sure, short list of people.

52
00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:27,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what have you made of just everything that's

53
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,439
happened since, including this offseason? What have you made of

54
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,719
the Wizards's over direction direction overall in terms of both

55
00:02:34,759 --> 00:02:36,960
your thoughts and feelings about it, but like also what

56
00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:39,199
does this all say about what they're actually trying to do?

57
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,680
Speaker 2: There's at least a direction and some of the moves

58
00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:45,360
I'm like trying to figure out a little bit where

59
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,400
they're trying to go. But I'm not as worried about

60
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,680
them because you at least know there's like an overall,

61
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,039
here's the strategy, here's the thing we're trying to do.

62
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,199
It just seemed kind of like a rudderless ship under Shepherd,

63
00:02:57,199 --> 00:02:58,639
and I don't know how much of that was ted

64
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,120
leonsis he's a pretty involved owner from what we hear

65
00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:04,639
in terms of like kind of pushing you know, certain

66
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,439
things or mandates on the front office. So maybe not

67
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,479
all shepherds fault necessarily, but it seems like he's given

68
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,599
these guys kind of carte blanche to go do what

69
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,439
they need to do. I do kind of wonder, like

70
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,360
if there's a ticking clock on how long he'll give

71
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,240
them to rebuild this. I don't see him being the

72
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,400
patient five years into a rebuild owner, but you know,

73
00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:26,800
if he gives him till twenty twenty six, like they

74
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,439
could probably get a pretty good dent to the way

75
00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:31,080
there in terms of like at least getting them back

76
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,080
to where they were. That's the thing. Like they had

77
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,159
all these like veteran guys and they were still a

78
00:03:35,159 --> 00:03:37,639
thirty five win team, So like the floor wasn't really

79
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,719
that high. You could rebuild for three years and be

80
00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:42,199
almost just as good as that, you know, that team

81
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,680
with like young guys. So I think overall, so far,

82
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,639
like the moves just kind of makes sense in terms of, like,

83
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,680
all right, let's strip this for parts as much as

84
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,719
we can. You can nitpick over did they hold onto

85
00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:56,759
this old guy a little too long and get a

86
00:03:56,759 --> 00:03:59,439
little too greedy trying to extract one more second round

87
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:02,439
pick out of them. But like ultimately again at least

88
00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:04,080
you can kind of figure out what they're trying to do.

89
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,000
Under Shepherd, he came in and is like, we will

90
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,280
be a playoff team, and then two years later it's

91
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,199
like we're gonna fight for the play in. So like

92
00:04:10,599 --> 00:04:13,120
the bar kind of kept lowering itself over time, and

93
00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:16,519
now it's like, no, we're gonna be bad. And I

94
00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:18,319
don't know if this is a national thing, but like

95
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,759
Wizard Spans, especially DC area fans, we do this thing

96
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,600
every year where like we perpetually overrate our own guys,

97
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,879
and I think I've hammered the over like four years

98
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,920
in a row and just look stupid for doing it.

99
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,439
This is the first year I'm like, oh, twenty two

100
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,439
wins is the you know, the over under. I'm definitely

101
00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:35,920
taking the under, Like it just seems like a no

102
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,720
brainer because I don't think these guys will let them

103
00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:38,879
win more than twenty games.

104
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,639
Speaker 1: Well, it's off season, so we're all riding hopium, which

105
00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:45,560
is so I totally understand that. What's interesting to me

106
00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:49,480
is you mentioned this on one of your recent podcasts

107
00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:52,000
with Johnny White. Go subscribe to Believe in Wizards. Mention

108
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,560
that in the intro links in the podcast and YouTube

109
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,600
description there's another plug not something I realized where it's

110
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,519
just like it feels like too many spots are given

111
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,160
to veterans, which I think in some instances, I think

112
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,319
it could be doing them a disservice. But then you

113
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,040
look at the DENIAVDA trade and regardless of how you

114
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,959
actually feel about the return of the dniavia trade, and

115
00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:09,879
everyone who listens to this podcast knows that I'm still

116
00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,120
in battle over it. Taking a twenty twenty nine first

117
00:05:14,199 --> 00:05:16,399
round or as one of the primary forms of compensation

118
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,240
was almost encouraging to me because it was like, oh,

119
00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:22,040
like this front office has real I know they got

120
00:05:22,079 --> 00:05:23,680
Bob Carrington out of it too, and make a flip

121
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,959
Malcolm Brockton. But like the twenty twenty nine first round pick,

122
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,120
you could make the case, depending on how you feel

123
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,240
about Bob Carrington, that is the most valuable part of

124
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,040
that deal, and it's no worse than the second most

125
00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:36,600
valuable part. And I say this to people all the time,

126
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,839
and to also remind myself it's cool to think about, oh,

127
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,720
they acquired all these distant first round picks, but front

128
00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:45,639
offices don't think in those terms all the time because

129
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,000
most of the time they're not going to have their

130
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,000
jobs to use or trade or make those picks. And

131
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,160
so the fact that they accepted a twenty twenty nine

132
00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:55,600
first is a primary, let's call it, a primary form

133
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,279
of compensation. I thought it was almost encouraging because it's like, oh,

134
00:05:58,319 --> 00:06:00,720
maybe they really they really will see if true. Now,

135
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,439
whether leons Is gets you know, itchy over the next

136
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,000
year or two is different, but I thought at least

137
00:06:05,079 --> 00:06:06,800
that was a good harbinger.

138
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,279
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that, because it actually makes me

139
00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:11,399
feel better about it. I've been kind of wrestling mentally

140
00:06:11,399 --> 00:06:14,120
with how I feel about that trade because I liked Bub.

141
00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:16,600
I like Bub still, but it was like we we

142
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,079
couldn't have gotten the pick in twenty twenty five, Like

143
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,199
that's the draft everyone wants to be in. But I

144
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,480
think the nice thing about you know, twenty twenty nine

145
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,680
is like, that's this sort of nebulous thing to all

146
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,040
these gms that will hold value for a lot longer,

147
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,120
where it's like almost a minute you draft somebody, they

148
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,439
become worth less than that pick in an equivalent draft,

149
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:40,040
Like it's hard. Could you flip bub for a lottery

150
00:06:40,079 --> 00:06:43,560
pick next year? Like I don't know, you know, so

151
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,959
it at least twenty twenty nine is this far away

152
00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:48,639
thing of like it just it'll maintain value as like

153
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,680
a you know, it's a first round pick. It's abstract

154
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,199
and I kind of like that too.

155
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,199
Speaker 1: What did you make and how did you feel about

156
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,639
the decision to stick with Brian keevan head coach moving

157
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,199
forward with it does seem like they kind of had

158
00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:03,000
a real search, but a lot of the stuff that's

159
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,160
sort of set about him, it feels very anecdotal based

160
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,839
rather than like real evidence based, And so I don't

161
00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:11,360
have an actual strugg I won't pretend to have a

162
00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:13,120
strong opinion on it. So what did you just sort

163
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:13,720
of make of it?

164
00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:16,759
Speaker 2: I don't have a strong opinion on it, Like that's

165
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,000
my strong opinion is that my opinion's not that strong

166
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,879
on it, Like it's it's fine. It's like sort of

167
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,519
the Brett Brown thing again. I think, you know, just

168
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,360
like we know we're going to be bad. This is

169
00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:29,160
the guy that we're gonna rock with to develop some

170
00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:31,240
players and just kind of weather the storm. We're not

171
00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:33,040
gonna pay like a third coach on you know, have

172
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,120
the third coach on payroll for the next year by

173
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,000
moving on to somebody else or whatever. Like, I think

174
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,920
he's here for the next like probably two years, and

175
00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:42,360
if they're good again in like twenty twenty six or

176
00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:44,800
at least like trending back up in the twenty twenty

177
00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:48,240
six twenty seven timeline, like, I guess he probably gets

178
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,319
a shot at it, you know, assuming he's like helped

179
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,879
these guys get better. And they went into last year

180
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,399
saying like, as long as Bilaal and Denny get better,

181
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,439
you know, wes Unseld has done his job, and well,

182
00:07:58,759 --> 00:08:00,279
you know saw how that worked out for him. But

183
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,000
I think Keith was clearly their guy. They'll give him

184
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,040
as like fair as shake as you can get, and

185
00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:09,079
then it's on him if he can transition for being

186
00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:11,519
a developmental coach to like all right, starting to build

187
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,279
like a competitive team coach and I exaceid. I think

188
00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:17,399
they'll give him every chance, but I don't really care. Personally,

189
00:08:17,959 --> 00:08:20,360
the guy seem to like him, and at this point,

190
00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:22,519
if you can kind of keep the vibes good enough

191
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,279
and guys will get better under you, and you know,

192
00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:27,759
it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Like,

193
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,360
no good coach was going to come in here and

194
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,000
do anything different. I don't think you know.

195
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,039
Speaker 1: Also the points like okay, well who's they missed out on,

196
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,000
which is tough to do with coaching, because we all

197
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,039
are I'll throw myself in here. I like to think

198
00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:38,600
I know more about the game of basketball than I

199
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,919
actually do, and so it's like I can't point be like, well,

200
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,879
you're like you really missed out on you should have

201
00:08:42,879 --> 00:08:44,919
went and got I have said I would have hired

202
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,000
Micah Norri for every team just because I don't know

203
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,440
if you saw that piece where he works in random

204
00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:52,159
turns of phrase and words like basically off of dares

205
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,080
from his players and all those distance.

206
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's why I would.

207
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 1: Base my HighRes off of, which is probably why I

208
00:08:58,159 --> 00:08:59,559
don't run an NBA team, which.

209
00:08:59,399 --> 00:09:02,759
Speaker 2: Is it's probably better than some of the reasons guys

210
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,960
higher people, so you know, I can't go wrong.

211
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: He is indebted to me, though I did include the

212
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,159
outline because he made Belala starter before the fractured wrist,

213
00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:12,120
and so like that's enough to I think he's earned

214
00:09:12,159 --> 00:09:14,080
himself at least a ten year deal at minimum, but

215
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:14,480
it it.

216
00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:16,879
Speaker 2: Gets the assignment, Like I think that's the biggest thing.

217
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,759
Like there wasn't this, Like watching the Olympics was really

218
00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:23,320
tough because the Wizards were the one ping pong ball

219
00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:25,720
away from getting Weben Yama and they did this late

220
00:09:25,799 --> 00:09:28,720
like win seven of ten games surge that year to

221
00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:32,240
kind of shoot themselves in the foot. So like I

222
00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:34,799
don't think he will let them do that either. And

223
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,279
that's just big enough upfront of like, Okay, we're winning

224
00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:39,519
too many games down the stretch, like you know what,

225
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,759
somebody good has a hamstring injury. Now I like that.

226
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 1: So I dictate too much of how these podcasts go.

227
00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:48,360
So this year I want to start thinking, or at

228
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,480
least the beginnings of things, what is the biggest Wizard

229
00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:54,720
storyline that you were going to be tracking most closely

230
00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:56,279
into this season and throughout it?

231
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 2: Of course hashtag capture the Flag, Like that's what we

232
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,120
got to do this year here, we got to beat

233
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,360
out Brooklyn or whoever else wants to be real bad.

234
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,200
Like that's what this entire season is about for the Wizards,

235
00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:11,600
is they've got some like nice developmental pieces like I'm

236
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,080
higher than cool BALI higher on him than most I

237
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,639
would say probably at this point. And so are like,

238
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,559
you know, whatever you take from Summer League, let's say

239
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,759
you take nothing from it, he's still like is the

240
00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:22,240
guy you look at as like, oh, this is a

241
00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:26,759
future like you know, star of the franchise, Like I

242
00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:28,480
don't know, I think he's the ceiling. Is probably a

243
00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:31,279
pretty good starter and versatile guy that every winning team needs.

244
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,559
Like that's great. Is bub you know, the next Baron

245
00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:36,759
Davis or somebody like you know, I don't know what

246
00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:39,440
the ceiling is for someone like him, but probably not

247
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,639
to me. I think he's like another really nice piece.

248
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,600
So I think this upcoming draft is like the one

249
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,279
you have to star hunt in, like whoever you can

250
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,600
get wherever you can get it in the draft, whoever

251
00:10:49,639 --> 00:10:52,440
has like the most star potential of any of them,

252
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,919
swing as big as you can because they don't have

253
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,679
that guy yet to me, So that's what I'd be

254
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,799
using this draft for. So you just can't afford to

255
00:10:59,799 --> 00:11:02,399
have twenty five wins this year and end up with

256
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:03,799
a seventh pick or something like that.

257
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 1: How do you you would throw it through the lens

258
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,720
of we're now in year what it feels like, I

259
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,559
don't know, at least year five right of the flat

260
00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:13,039
and lottery odds now that impact you're like view at

261
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,480
all of the value of being like, Okay, you can

262
00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:19,159
be a bottom four team, sure, and there's pretty clear

263
00:11:19,159 --> 00:11:21,039
pathway to do that because fourteen of the teams in

264
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,600
the West aren't currently trying to lose. But like there

265
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,480
feels like there's almost a trade off where it's like, well,

266
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,480
what cost do you need to do that? Because a

267
00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:30,519
fourteen percent chance isn't all that much and then you

268
00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:32,200
have at least you have three other teams that have

269
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,519
the same chance of getting it. So it was always

270
00:11:34,799 --> 00:11:37,080
you're always more likely not to get the first the

271
00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:39,720
number one overall pick, which was true beforehand, but those

272
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,840
odds have been substantially shortened over the past half decade

273
00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:43,240
or whatever.

274
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,399
Speaker 2: It is, Like, I think Cooper Flag will be a

275
00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:47,480
really good player just from what I've seen, but I

276
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,440
think there's some other good pieces in this. So it's

277
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,240
just lock yourself into like a top five pick. That's

278
00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:54,240
that's the move. You know, if you can get the

279
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,679
number one pick up, great, but can you get VJ.

280
00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,840
Edgecomb at five or one of those kind of guys,

281
00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:02,759
Like that might be enough for Ace Bailey or whoever

282
00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:05,039
you decide, Dylan Harper, like whoever the next couple guys

283
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,200
are for you come draft night, Like they've just got

284
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,080
to do that one right and kind of hit big

285
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,200
on it, I think, regardless of position or fit or

286
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,720
any of those kinds of things. And like I get,

287
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,960
like from the odds perspective, like it's not as important

288
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,039
to be the absolute worst team anymore, but you've just

289
00:12:21,039 --> 00:12:24,039
got to ensure that you're in that like tier of

290
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,840
bottom couple of teams no matter what.

291
00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:28,919
Speaker 1: And I think what you just said is that it's

292
00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:31,320
not even just a perfect way. It was perfect, but

293
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,720
it's the only way to look at it if you're

294
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,480
going to go that route, is it's not just yeah,

295
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,120
it'd be great to get the number one pick, but

296
00:12:36,159 --> 00:12:38,440
it's we want to lock ourselves into the top five

297
00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:40,960
or whatever it is. And that makes more sense than

298
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,360
because it's what we're prepared to not have the number

299
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,039
one the number two pick when it happens.

300
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, like your chances of getting up to number one,

301
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,639
you know, they are what they are. But like I'd

302
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,440
much rather be you know, two and fall to four

303
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,720
than seven and hope I can get up to one

304
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,600
or something like that.

305
00:12:59,159 --> 00:13:02,399
Speaker 1: So let's start with Bub Carrington just because we could

306
00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:05,159
talk about Denyaffia with him. What are your thoughts now

307
00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:07,240
that you've seen Bub play in Summer League and also

308
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,240
we're just what like two months removed from that trade. Basically,

309
00:13:10,279 --> 00:13:12,720
where do you kind of we understand the thought process,

310
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,080
I think, but where do you sort of land on

311
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,360
the decision to make it the return the whole nine there?

312
00:13:17,639 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 2: I think I'm like cautiously optimistic on him and where

313
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,879
he can develop into. Like he's young, he's got good

314
00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:27,360
positional size. I think what he represents more from like

315
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,799
a team building philosophy is more important to me than

316
00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:32,279
what we saw from him or you know, in Summer

317
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,759
League or anything like that. The Wizards have had like

318
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,840
small guard after small guard running their offense the last

319
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,360
like three or four years basically since Russell Westbrook. So

320
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,200
them drafting like a guard that's I don't know, above

321
00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:47,799
average height for like the point guard position and can

322
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,320
maybe even play a little bit of off guard like

323
00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:52,360
that represents to me that they're going with like that

324
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,480
Okac model of like positional versatility and and sort of like,

325
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,000
you know, we can switch one through four at least

326
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,200
East kind of stuff like this is a team that's

327
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,320
two years removed from playing two drop coverage centers and

328
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,720
their starting lineup together, So like getting modern, I think

329
00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:12,399
is like a really big step for them. And that's

330
00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:14,639
what I see with bub Like is he ever gonna

331
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,120
be a dynamic enough creator for others to be like

332
00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,919
a really high level, all star level point guard? Like

333
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,399
I don't know, is he explosive enough to be a

334
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,600
twenty point per game score if he you know, if

335
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,840
he's not also shooting you know, forty percent from three

336
00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:30,879
or whatever, or is he gonna shoot forty percent? Like

337
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,279
there's still question marks and there's open things that could

338
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,600
limit his ceiling. But seen enough really good stuff already

339
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:39,600
that that I feel really good about the pick. And

340
00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:41,960
even if he doesn't fully pop you know, where I

341
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,200
think he can get. I still like what they're trying

342
00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:46,159
to do and like I said, what he represents as

343
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,879
a player, and it makes me feel better about that

344
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,519
Denny trade just from all like, Okay, at least I

345
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:53,679
get the logic and the rationale and it's a defensible move,

346
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,320
whether I like it in a vacuum or not, what

347
00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:56,919
what have you?

348
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,279
Speaker 1: Sort of This is so early impressions of it, but

349
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:02,360
the past saying the vision feels like it's further along

350
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,840
because the question has been, oh, can he be a

351
00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:06,759
full time kind of floor general or that on ball guard,

352
00:15:06,799 --> 00:15:09,399
and based off what we've seen so far, it feels

353
00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:12,200
like the answer might be closer to yes than we thought.

354
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,039
Because what I watched from him in Summer League, it

355
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,879
just it felt very natural. It felt like the decision making,

356
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,200
like the cadence, the speed of it was there, the

357
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,360
accuracy of his passes they were different, they were on

358
00:15:21,399 --> 00:15:23,559
target a lot of the time. And then just you

359
00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:26,399
mentioned the size too. And so when I first started

360
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,840
any Obvious trade like, I didn't love it for any

361
00:15:28,879 --> 00:15:30,679
of the sides. And then I think, coming away from it,

362
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:32,759
I like it better for the Wizards because I think

363
00:15:32,799 --> 00:15:35,120
any obvious is fantastic. He was never gonna be your

364
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,480
best through even second best player on a contender probably,

365
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:40,080
And now I'm not saying bub Carrington will, but you

366
00:15:40,159 --> 00:15:42,120
get a bite at that apple when you look at

367
00:15:42,279 --> 00:15:45,080
what and also the thing that Denny is we've both

368
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,879
of us and I think everyone has been begging him

369
00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:49,519
to do for years. Get those threes up, my guy,

370
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,759
And like Bubb didn't seem like any problem getting him

371
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:52,759
off in the Summer League.

372
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think you nailed it there, right, Like

373
00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,279
it's Denny's the better player right now. Odds are are

374
00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:02,679
just based on how good a player I think he

375
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,240
is and you think he is. Like he may end

376
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,879
up being the better of the two of them long

377
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,039
term anyway, But the upside left of Bubb turning into

378
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,240
an All star level player is a higher to me,

379
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,519
I think than what the upside left of Denny turning

380
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:18,840
in that is. So just even if it's theoretical, I

381
00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:21,320
think it's a bigger swing and it represents another kind

382
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,120
of roll this over give ourselves a chance at a

383
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:27,679
future star at the very least. And and yeah, I

384
00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:30,799
think the passing was great. I don't know how to

385
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,879
like take that much away from Summer League. It's this

386
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,600
unstructured environment, and he's a guy that I think is

387
00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:38,200
like built to play in an environment like that. And

388
00:16:38,279 --> 00:16:41,919
just not to decern this into like the Hooper versus

389
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,559
basketball player discussion or whatever, but like I think he

390
00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:46,440
is that kind of just like give him the ball,

391
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:48,159
give him the keys, and let him like go make

392
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,120
some plays. Will he be able to like do that

393
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,080
in a structured, you know situation where he has to

394
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,600
like run an actual offense. You know, jury still out

395
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,759
on that, and I think people that saw highlights saw

396
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,759
like the really good stuff. But there were times last

397
00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:06,839
year where like Pittsburgh like had to give the keys

398
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,480
back to Ish Leggett because like bub just wasn't ready

399
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,599
for that. So it's better than I think it would be,

400
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,400
And I thought it would be at this stage probably

401
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,519
of things. But I think there's gonna be a lot

402
00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:17,519
of growing pains this year too.

403
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,559
Speaker 1: Do you or would you care to guess, like what

404
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,559
type of agency will he have over the actual Wizards offense?

405
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,799
Because we know what they're doing as a direction, so

406
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,839
it feels like it's easy, like just to plumb the

407
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,559
depths of his umball skills. But you have Malcolm Brogden,

408
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:32,640
you have Jordan Poole, you have Kyle Kuzma, like and

409
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,240
if you want to saddle black Pool Bolli with more volume, like,

410
00:17:36,279 --> 00:17:38,119
there are other mouths to feed. So do you have

411
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,200
any sense or any guesses to you know, will they

412
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,119
really let him loose and try and run the offense,

413
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,039
or do you think his role might be which is

414
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:45,440
also the problem with Summer League because a lot of

415
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,880
the times these guys are playing different roles there than

416
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,559
they will with the Wizards. So do you envision it

417
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:52,039
being it'll always be scaled back, but do like, could

418
00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:53,839
it be a dramatic scale back from what they were

419
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:54,599
doing with him there?

420
00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:57,599
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, just given how kind of like

421
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,000
deliberate they were with the progression for cool Bali last year,

422
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,480
that seems to signal to me that they're gonna be patient,

423
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:07,839
They're going to take their time. I thought they kind

424
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:10,200
of let especially Alex Sar kind of be out over

425
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,880
his skis at Summer League, and I don't like that personally,

426
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,480
Like I'd rather this here, like really simple things we

427
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,640
can give you right now, show you can do them,

428
00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:20,839
and then we add more. Okay, then you can do

429
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,960
this next thing, then we add something else to it.

430
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,599
I think that's what they'll try to do with him.

431
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,279
And to be honest with you, like I expect Jared

432
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:29,279
Butler to be the backup point guard to start the

433
00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:33,160
season on a non guaranteed deal, but just a little

434
00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:36,119
like more solid and ready to go, I think at

435
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,759
this point, and they may play some together. He may

436
00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:40,559
kind of mix in with the starters as more of

437
00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,160
like an off ball guy, secondary ball hindler kind of thing.

438
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,240
But I don't think they're going to just be like,

439
00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:48,119
you know, here you go, bub day one, like you're

440
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,039
running the show anytime Jordan Poole's not in here ready

441
00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:53,680
to do it. There's also just like, I know Jordan

442
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:55,960
Poole was better as kind of the lead creator, but

443
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,960
but there's also there was some really bad Jordan Pool

444
00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:01,359
last year too, and there might be nights where it's

445
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,920
just like, we just need a steadying hand. And I

446
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,519
don't know if you want to go from Pool if

447
00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:08,160
he's having kind of like a wild night to a rookie.

448
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,039
So I expect like Butler to be the guy they

449
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:14,200
give the ball to to just like just be in here,

450
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,000
be steady, be solid, don't do anything flashy, just like

451
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,279
bring the ball across half court and run the set.

452
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,799
Speaker 1: That's my guest, though it's also one of the players

453
00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:23,880
that I think invites people to use the word wiggle.

454
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,759
That might have been I think he was one of

455
00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:27,599
the first players I ever I've heard wiggle. It's been

456
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:30,039
in the Vatnacular forever. But when he was with Utah

457
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:31,240
and I was in love with him, he was the

458
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,400
first player think I ever out loud spoke wiggle for

459
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,200
so I and they also have you're talking about steadiness

460
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,160
like for now they have Malcolm Brogden too, and that

461
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,160
could be something the clip factors into it. So was

462
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,319
Alex r the biggest draft bust of all time? Or what? Yeah?

463
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 2: I mean he's got to be top three ever, Like,

464
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,599
if you're looking at him, probably Oloa Candy. I actually

465
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,880
think Kalm turned into like a decent post defender, So

466
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:53,279
I don't.

467
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,599
Speaker 1: Bettett carved out a nice career. We'll saw her even

468
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:56,359
last that long?

469
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not if you had to bet. Just based

470
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,279
on half the Wizard's fan base's reaction to it. Who

471
00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:06,359
cares how we performed, Like, this is one thing we

472
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,480
talked a lot about on our show because I have

473
00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:10,799
a center on the show who played in Summer League,

474
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:13,599
and he talked about how hard that is, you know,

475
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,480
to come in as a rookie and just be like, Okay,

476
00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:18,400
no one's going to pass me in the ball. Cool.

477
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,160
When I get it, I'm gonna do something crazy, And honestly,

478
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,319
I think the like the leash was a little too

479
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,440
long and they just let him get away with like

480
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:28,920
doing some wild shit out there. Honestly, Like we don't

481
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,920
need Alex stars step back threes when he's already zero

482
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,720
for twelve to start a game like that should have

483
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,160
never been something that was allowed to happen. So it's

484
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,400
as much there to blame as he is, I think.

485
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,400
But if he gets stronger, it gets a little tougher.

486
00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:45,039
And I think if they got a couple like Valentunas

487
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,160
is kind of you know, there to encourage and mentor

488
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,920
him or whatever, at least for part of the season,

489
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,319
I don't think they're going to let him get away

490
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:53,319
with like floating to the perimeter as much as he

491
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,400
did kind of from day one there. And when you

492
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,480
go back, like I went and watched that G League

493
00:20:57,599 --> 00:20:59,279
night game the first one, or he was like really

494
00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:02,039
good the beginning of last season, and he was not

495
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,759
afraid to mix it up and he was like going

496
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,920
to the rim at them and stuff. So like I

497
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,200
think when he gets like kind of catches back up

498
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:11,720
to the level of physicality and competition and things like that,

499
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:14,440
Like I'm not too worried about it long term personally,

500
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000
just so what are going to simplify for him? At least?

501
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 1: So you do think they're gonna sim because you and

502
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,240
Johnny had talked a lot about him playing within himself

503
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,359
or whatever you guys were saying. And my question was,

504
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,400
do you think that they're actually like sort of built

505
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:29,160
to do that for him, Like they have enough sort

506
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,839
of that secondary infrastructure to be, hey, you're going to

507
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,680
be more of this play finisher that isn't floating around

508
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,200
to the perimeter too much and so focus on connecting

509
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,480
on your screens, finishing more physically. You think they're I said,

510
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,039
even they're built to that, but you think that they

511
00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:44,519
will try to wire him to actively do that rather

512
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:47,039
than give him too much of a rope.

513
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,839
Speaker 2: I sure, hope. So I don't know what they're doing

514
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,160
if they don't, Like if if he's got kind of

515
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,720
two paths to follow in practice, and he can watch

516
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:58,200
six foot ten Kyle Kuzma like ISO on the perimeter,

517
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,200
or he can watch Mark, you know, Marvin Bagley, like

518
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,559
try to post somebody up and just finish easy buckets

519
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:07,839
around the rim. Like I'm hoping he goes more in

520
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,240
the bagglely direction early and then you know, use the

521
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:13,079
downtime and the off season and things like that to

522
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,240
kind of work on the skill set and slowly kind

523
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,119
of add those other things on. I want him to

524
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,400
outrun the other centers. I want him to close up

525
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,680
a lot of holes for people defensively, catch a couple

526
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,799
of lobs here and there, if he can get a

527
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:29,920
couple put backs, like just if he If he does that,

528
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,839
like I think that's a really good rookie year just

529
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,960
considering where he is. And then you wait for the

530
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,839
other stuff to come around, like the short role passing

531
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,000
was really good. If they want to, you know, put

532
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:39,880
him on the elbow and let somebody kind of like

533
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,799
run off of him, Like I'm cool with something like that,

534
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,359
but he should not be like Iso creating at any

535
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,279
point in a game, you know, in the NBA, And

536
00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:49,920
I definitely don't think they'll let him do any of that,

537
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,559
like the first half of the year at the very least.

538
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,559
Speaker 1: Do you anticipate but Keith trying to play him in

539
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,160
balance units together or was that strictly we want Joannis

540
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,519
to show Saar his shoulder workout.

541
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna have to just where he's at,

542
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,759
like he was getting muscled by dudes, you know, three

543
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:08,319
inches smaller than him at this point. And I think

544
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,359
just from a I mean, unless they're just willing to

545
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,079
like be so bad in his minutes that like he

546
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,079
might be sort of one of the least productive players

547
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:18,839
in the NBA this year that's actually going to get

548
00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:21,240
minutes because I think they will play him, but I

549
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,880
would hope that they kind of have enough support around

550
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,079
him or realize the kind of support he needs, whether

551
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,519
it's Rashaun Holmes or Baggley or one of these other guys.

552
00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:31,079
Like I just don't think you can leave him out

553
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,359
there as like the lone, like real big, like if

554
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,839
it's him next to Kuzma and then whoever be Allah

555
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,200
at the three or whatever, like they're gonna get just

556
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:41,319
destroyed anywhere around the rim.

557
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: I think, do you think that he can handle that

558
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:48,039
sort of off big role then though, because it's like

559
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,039
if you're playing with Jonas Mountain Tunis even has some stretch,

560
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,759
but like the things we're talking about Albastar doing is

561
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:55,799
avoiding being on the perimeter. It's like, I don't know

562
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:58,640
if Jonas Vntuta is a good enough floor spacer to

563
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,440
then open up the lane for him to do a

564
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,400
lot of the stuff, or even just at the elbows,

565
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,839
like open that space for him to occupy.

566
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,559
Speaker 2: The answer is no, But I don't think you have

567
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,160
a choice, Like I don't think there's enough there for

568
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,279
him to do those things. But I also don't think

569
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:16,279
you can leave him alone as the only big on

570
00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:18,720
the court. And I think there's more of a chance

571
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,920
of him just feet set hitting like wide open corner

572
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,519
threes than there are him, you know, controlling the defensive

573
00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:28,559
glass alone out there. So to me, it's like, let's

574
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:31,000
pick your poison here. I think he's better off like

575
00:24:31,839 --> 00:24:34,519
just stand in a corner and if you're you know, open,

576
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:38,200
shoot it or or drive or slash a little bit

577
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,759
more than I think he could kind of handle even

578
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:43,480
backup centers, you know alone.

579
00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm very interesting what he looks like because I liked

580
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,680
his defense more coming out of school than his offense.

581
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,319
I think most people were there too, and I'm curious, like,

582
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,680
not even just the roll they're going to kind of

583
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,160
throw him in, But when this team is clearly built

584
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,920
not to be so great defensively, do you worry about

585
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,240
him picking up bad habits or getting discouraged because he's

586
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,440
like he is probably gonna be shouldering just regardless of

587
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,880
who he's playing with, regardless of whether he's the only

588
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:07,960
big on the floor. Just so much responsibility. And I

589
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,359
think we've seen using Jalen, Duran and Detroit as an analog,

590
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:13,680
like what can kind of happen when there's like if

591
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,160
you don't have guys who can keep the ball in

592
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,039
front of them and you're young and you're still learning,

593
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:19,839
it could be disastrous. And so like I really do

594
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,960
value Alexar's valueability, and I think he can make a

595
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:24,000
bunch of kind of plays even when he's not the

596
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,519
primary rim protector. I'm just curious to see if we

597
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:29,640
can come away from this offseason see enough of the

598
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:33,279
flickers of that given like just the rest of the

599
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,759
Wizard's roster, and I honestly I almost would when you

600
00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:39,400
just kind of look at how they're built at the moment,

601
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,720
Like I might just tie so many of his minutes

602
00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:44,680
to the log Hulabalis and maybe even throwing Malcolm Broden,

603
00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:47,960
like just as guys who might profile is immediately competent

604
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,119
to good defenders, because I think that makes wherever you're

605
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,000
gonna have him, but like on the lower lines, it

606
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:55,640
feels like it will make his job easier and we

607
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,799
might learn more about what he could do at his

608
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:58,640
absolute peak.

609
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I've worried

610
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,400
about every person the Wizards have drafted for the last

611
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,359
twenty five years picking up bad habits defensively because there's

612
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,400
just been a glut of bad, lazy defenders on most

613
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,920
of these rosters. So that's like my perpetual fear. But

614
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:17,200
I think that's the nice thing about the guys they're

615
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,559
drafting is, or at least the guys they're drafting high,

616
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,240
like cool Bali and Sar are rooted I think in

617
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,799
trying to play the right way and play and actually

618
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:30,519
care about defense, and I think his natural tools and

619
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:32,960
skills will just kind of like prevent him from ever

620
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,240
being like a total bum on the defensive side, Like

621
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,599
he's just too long and too mobile to not at

622
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,799
least be eventually a plus defender, even if there's a

623
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:44,559
couple of bad habits here there. And then you just

624
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:45,960
have to trust that you can get a good enough

625
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,440
coach to kind of, you know, smooth over the rough

626
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,160
edges over time. But I'm with you, like I would

627
00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,160
I would be putting him with guys that aren't gonna

628
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,119
like totally leave him out to dry a lot and

629
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,160
have to like cover up too much for them, and

630
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,759
just same kind of thing. Keep the defensive role as

631
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:05,079
simple as it can early and then you know, hopefully

632
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,599
maybe you can kind of scale up over time as

633
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:07,000
you go to.

634
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: I've waited long enough, let's do two hours on bla

635
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:15,519
cool BALI perfect. But actually, so what stood out impressed you?

636
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:17,559
Were surprised you most about what he did as a

637
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,759
rookie before his injury.

638
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: I thought he was just like not scared to take

639
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,279
on like really tough defensive assignments. And there were a

640
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:27,640
couple of times it looked really bad in my opinion,

641
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,359
and that's maybe not a popular opinion with the rest

642
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,640
of the fan base here, but he got cooked a

643
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,440
few times, but didn't see him at all discouraged by that.

644
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,720
And like, the thing I liked most about Danny Avda

645
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,720
from day one was the defense. Like I was the

646
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,839
skeptic on whether the offense would come around enough to

647
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,440
kind of justify the role that you'd want from him

648
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:49,319
in terms of where the defense was so but I

649
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,720
like the defense from day one. It was just he

650
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:54,319
would get frustrated and you could see it and the

651
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,920
fouling and things like that, like he couldn't reconcile what

652
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,240
was and wasn't allowed or expected of him as like

653
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,160
a rookie defender guarding Kawhi Leonard or Lebron or whatever.

654
00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:06,160
Cool bally like seemed kind of like up for the

655
00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:09,519
challenge and like a little more like to take a

656
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,000
little more joy out of it. And I like the

657
00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:14,119
Denny approach of like I'm taking this so seriously, but

658
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,759
also like he also gonna have to have fun with

659
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:19,039
it a little bit too, especially as a rookie, of

660
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,000
just like cool, look at this moment where I'm gonna

661
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,200
go guard Luca and he might still score twenty five.

662
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,680
But I thought at least he was better defensively right

663
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,079
away against the best players than I think you could

664
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,559
typically safely expect from a rookie player to be. And honestly,

665
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:38,559
I think he was one of their more impactful defensive

666
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:42,039
players overall. Like just using the Denny analog again, Like

667
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:44,599
Denny was a really good player, but I don't think

668
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200
he made the other guys on the court around him

669
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,279
better or the overall team defense better. Whereas I saw

670
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,519
enough from Koolibali to think like he can be that

671
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,599
kind of guy, like the length, the recoverability, like all

672
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,920
those things guarding multiple positions. Like well, I think that's

673
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,519
something that like just excited me long term enough that

674
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:05,279
you know, even if he's gonna get beat a few

675
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,079
times on some dumb stuff like that's okay because it's

676
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:09,759
the sort of still theory of him and what he

677
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:10,480
could turn into.

678
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm also wondering if he gets I totally agree with that,

679
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,839
and he said I wonder if he also gets better

680
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,680
or a Lea's more intriguing because he looked I know

681
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:20,920
fans weren't happy with his role in with France or basically,

682
00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:22,839
but he looks like he might have gotten stronger. We

683
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,799
are a muscle watch, it's Muscle Lot season, so maybe

684
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:29,400
I'm drinking too much cooly there, but he does look stronger,

685
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960
and so that intrigues me even more because he held

686
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:33,920
up so well in a lot of assignments that you

687
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,839
were referencing, and it was not that he was weak,

688
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,519
but like this didn't look like someone who was built

689
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:39,920
to cover. So even at his not his peak. But

690
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,039
like even if he took the most optimistic outlook on

691
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:44,880
ballacool Balley the rookie defender, some of the guys he

692
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,720
was going up against just what they looked so much

693
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,799
bigger and stronger than he was. And I'm like, well,

694
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,880
if he like put on like real size, now, like

695
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:52,920
what does that mean?

696
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:55,799
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, Like there was a play last year where

697
00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:57,680
like Lebron put like a shoulder into him and I

698
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,720
thought he was gonna like just float away because he

699
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:02,279
would just you know, like he just wasn't there yet,

700
00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:05,039
whereas like in the Olympics, like he you know, he

701
00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:08,079
was fine, he just but he just same kind of thing,

702
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:09,839
looked up for the challenge, seemed to fit into the

703
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:13,319
scheme pretty well there defensively, and it was a thing

704
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:16,079
that was interesting, Like all last year in the draft,

705
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:19,839
like everybody praised Steph Castle for Yukon because like, oh,

706
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,960
here's this five star recruit that comes in. It's just

707
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,240
willing to be like this like switchable, malleable team defender,

708
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,039
and like, you know, he was willing to kind of

709
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:31,279
take on that role and just be fine with that.

710
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,039
And now it's like, well, cool of BALI, like you know,

711
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,920
why is he okay just being like, you know, standing

712
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,720
in the corner and just being like a defender. It's

713
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,599
like we can't really pick and choose like when that's optimal.

714
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,680
He's a twenty raw twenty year old playing minutes on

715
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,200
an Olympic team, and he held up reasonably well. It's like, well,

716
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,799
I wish he would have had a few more like

717
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,240
ISO plays for himself. Like, I don't care about any

718
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:54,400
of that stuff personally, So I thought he was.

719
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,799
Speaker 1: Great looking at his role with the Wizards, though, do

720
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:59,000
you think they're going to attempt at all this year

721
00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:02,079
to expand his offensive uses? Even if it's a matter

722
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,759
of Now, if it's me, you know, I'm just gonna

723
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:04,960
put the ball in his hands and be like, all right,

724
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:06,759
let's really see what this does. But even more is

725
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:08,559
I thought what he did well and I wouldn't call

726
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:10,039
it a strength of his game, but like there's a

727
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:12,079
lot of plays where it's like if he was a

728
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:13,799
screener or if he just caught the ball in the

729
00:31:13,839 --> 00:31:15,519
center of the floor, I thought he had a really

730
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,200
good vision and like decision making in those scenarios, And

731
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,480
it's like I would like to see more of that

732
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,000
than I know they have so many bigs that maybe

733
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960
they don't view him in that way. But it's like,

734
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:25,160
I'm at the point where the Wizards, I would call

735
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,799
it hashtag just try shit and so is there but

736
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640
do they have the not they have the timeline, But dude,

737
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,240
when you're looking at the personnel, like, are they gonna

738
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,359
have the flexibility to experiment more with blah?

739
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: I think you'll see more of it. I wonder if

740
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,079
that's partly what some of the willingness to trade Denny was,

741
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,079
is just free up minutes there to do those kinds

742
00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:46,680
of things. And also I think the Denny move it

743
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:49,279
just you're only gonna be so good if you trade

744
00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:51,000
away the guy was probably your best player and last

745
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:53,039
year at least arguably one of your two best players.

746
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:55,240
So but the other part of that, though, I think,

747
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,680
is free up a few more secondary creator touches for

748
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:01,319
cool Bali and see if he can do some of

749
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,720
that stuff and maybe you can run a little bit

750
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:06,200
more and let him be like more of a transition

751
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,319
finisher and just see like all the different stuff he

752
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:10,359
may or may not be good at, and then also

753
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,160
kind of helps you assess going into next season. The

754
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,359
other things you want him to work on, Like I

755
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:17,480
think the one thing about like the Olympics is all

756
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:20,000
the overall benefit is still a plus, but but he

757
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:22,319
didn't get as much dedicated just like be in a

758
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:25,039
gym with a trainer working on tightening his handle kind

759
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:27,200
of time so far, and he's got until now until

760
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,160
the start of the season do that. But like next

761
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,880
season I think is going to be maybe the biggest

762
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,839
season for him skill development wise in his whole career.

763
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,640
So it's just used this year to figure out like

764
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,319
where the holes still are, and then you can also

765
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,400
kind of measure progress from last year, Like I'm assuming

766
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,039
even in practices and things like that, he probably got

767
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:45,279
to do a few more things, so they'll know even

768
00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:49,799
anecdotally like okay, he looks more comfortable handling or initiating

769
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:51,680
in the pick and roll or being the roller or

770
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,119
just you know, for the try shit out kind of approach,

771
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,799
like I think you can kind of try a few

772
00:32:57,839 --> 00:32:59,799
more things out, and especially in the second half of

773
00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:04,160
the year. I don't Between Brogden, Balanciunis, and Kuzma, I

774
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,160
would imagine two of the three of them are not

775
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:09,559
on the roster after the deadline so that's a lot

776
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,920
less touches and that's more they can go to him.

777
00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:14,119
So I'm hopeful that they'll kind of scale up over

778
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:14,559
the year two.

779
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: So maybe he'll get that like mid season Denny Bump

780
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:20,000
that was saw last year.

781
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm expecting.

782
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Keyshawn George, what's the lowdown on him? And

783
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,079
he does? You mentioned this at the top about where

784
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:30,640
it seems like they're trying to get these guys with

785
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,599
a lot of defensive versatility and can do different things

786
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,480
on offense, and he fits that mold to a t.

787
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,599
I think people seem very split on like what he's

788
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,160
going to be like if you need him to do

789
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:41,680
anything on ball. I think I've seen some of the

790
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:44,680
keep calling it film, but of the possessions I've watched

791
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,680
of him, like I can there are possesions when I

792
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,240
can see it and there are possession where I can't.

793
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,759
But he seems quint essentially if you remove that from

794
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,359
the question, like, oh, this is something you usually plug

795
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,720
in and he'll play at both ends of the floor.

796
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: I expect him maybe to start a little more on

797
00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:00,200
like the Capital City Go Go this year. You know,

798
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:02,599
early in the year, and again maybe as they kind

799
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:04,079
of clean out like the glood of some of these

800
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:06,880
older guys, that's that's another person that they free up

801
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,000
to get a few more minutes for, you know, in

802
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:11,480
the latter part of the season. But yeah, he's six

803
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,519
' seven, he actually shoots it. He like was just

804
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,800
throwing the ball all over the place in Summer League

805
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,360
and had a lot of turnovers and things like that.

806
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,440
But I don't think turnovers in that setting are like

807
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,639
actually that bad of a thing, because it's like a

808
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,119
willingness to try stuff, and he wasn't like scared to

809
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,400
try to like split a double team of like really

810
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,639
quick handed small guards, which is just like bold and

811
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,639
show some confidence. And I think you just want like

812
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,840
a rookie at that stage that's not kind of timid.

813
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,880
Like there's an old like John Thompson line of like

814
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,079
I'd rather calm down a fool than raise a corpse,

815
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,280
And I think that applies for like rookies of just

816
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,360
like I kind of like a little irrational confidence because

817
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,800
we can scale that back and and kind of rein

818
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,760
you in a bit. So him trying to do stuff

819
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,519
is cool, and if he can do a little bit

820
00:34:56,559 --> 00:34:59,000
of like playmaking and give you some versatility. Great, it's

821
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:02,199
the defense is where he's at. Can your strength and

822
00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:05,119
conditioning and things like that help him be mobile enough

823
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:07,800
to actually guard more than like one position? I think

824
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,480
that's really going to be the question. As he bulks

825
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:12,320
up and fills out over time, does that kind of

826
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,000
like slowly move him to the fore position and like

827
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:20,320
stick him there? Can he be Kyle Andersony in that

828
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,639
sort of like I can guard threes and fours and

829
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,480
you know, maybe do a little bit of creation for

830
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:26,199
people and stuff like that. Like that, that's kind of

831
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:27,800
the player I'd be looking at with just like a

832
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,679
cleaner jump shot.

833
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: How do you think this team views Corey Kissbert who

834
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:35,320
does some things very well? And I like there's no

835
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,559
other player really when you're looking at the way he's

836
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:39,199
able to get off his shots, like there's not really

837
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,000
anyone else on the roster like that. I think if

838
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,519
he wanted to, you could try and use Jordan pull

839
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:45,960
that way. But like he likes and needs the ball,

840
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,320
whereas Kisbert just does not. Where does he sort of factor?

841
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,639
And I asked that too because he is extension eligible,

842
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:54,599
So is that someone that you would think that this

843
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:56,480
front office might be interested in keeping if the price

844
00:35:56,559 --> 00:35:58,320
is right, or would you more expect this to leak

845
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,000
into restricted free agency next year.

846
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,039
Speaker 2: I think the single most impressive thing this for an

847
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,639
office has done has been the contracts they've locked guys into.

848
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,199
Like I think that's why I felt like the return

849
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,639
for Denny was a little light personally, is because the

850
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:13,719
contract was so good and that should have had more

851
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,119
value to a better team longer term. And the Kusma

852
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:19,199
deal is great, like the sending contract, all this kind

853
00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:21,400
of stuff, So I would expect them to try to

854
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,039
get like a team friendly extension done. And just if

855
00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:26,800
I'm Corey and I'm looking at the market, you know,

856
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,800
from this summer it's like, you know, fringe starter on

857
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,320
a bad team kind of minutes, like how much money

858
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,960
am I really going to make in the open market?

859
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,719
So do I take a ten million dollars a year deal?

860
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,599
Or's like it's really movable for the Wizards, but it's

861
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,079
pretty solid money for him. And then you can kind

862
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:45,840
of go either way with it if he continues to

863
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,559
develop and he can actually guard somebody this year and beyond,

864
00:36:48,679 --> 00:36:50,519
like okay, maybe he can be a part of the

865
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:52,760
long term future if he can't, is he just like

866
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,840
some shooting for a team like the Magic or somebody

867
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,000
that could desperately use like a little extra shooting so

868
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,599
that could maybe cover up more for his you know,

869
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:02,679
defensive liabilities and stuff like that. So I think the

870
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,599
nice thing with him is like, if you can get

871
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:05,800
him on a good deal, you can kind of go

872
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,760
either way with it. So I'd expect them to try,

873
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,639
but also not like break the bank to do it.

874
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: What's interesting too, is so when you mentioned the Deniavia thing,

875
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,559
is we were talking about before we actually started recording,

876
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,599
how topsy turvy the market seems. But some of the

877
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:21,639
people when they baked in the Dniavia trade, it's like, well,

878
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:24,239
that contract's so good as you can't extend him off

879
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,400
of it, and so it's like, this just doesn't make

880
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,840
any sense to me. It's like, so you have players

881
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,760
who are going in the open market not getting paid,

882
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,480
but you have teams that might not be accepting as

883
00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:33,960
much because they don't think they can extend him off

884
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,119
these numbers. So I don't know how much that factored in,

885
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,519
but that might be one way of looking at the

886
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:41,320
Avvia trade is, oh, if you're worried that he's not

887
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,440
going to extend off the current number because that that

888
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,800
deal is a steal I could even when he wasn't

889
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,079
when he signed it. So we're talking like pre Avdia

890
00:37:48,159 --> 00:37:49,079
breakout at that point.

891
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: Immediately it looked like a great deal.

892
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe that factor into it. But I find

893
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,719
it interesting. It's like, oh, are you going to be

894
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,320
able to extend him off of it? But meanwhile, like

895
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,360
Gary Trent Junior just signed for the minimum, So.

896
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. No, it's a great point and I kind

897
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,840
of hadn't thought about that that way of just like

898
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,679
that does cap your value to certain teams long term,

899
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:09,480
but he still got multiple years left on it. I

900
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,280
think that's like a good problem to have and try

901
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,039
to figure out later. And he's another guy that you

902
00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:15,880
could flip at the end of that deal again to

903
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,320
a playoff team probably.

904
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: So what is the goal with Jordan Poole at this point?

905
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,320
And just because I destroyed him on this podcast probably

906
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,800
a bunch of times, and some of it might have

907
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,880
been uncalled for, he did, I thought you a better job.

908
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,840
Like later in the season, we saw some more control

909
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,039
over the offense in the passing out of the pick

910
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:36,480
and rolls, But like, what is the like just looking

911
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,320
at what they got to take him on? What is

912
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,119
the like, what is the actual point of Jordan Poole, Like,

913
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,880
are they hoping to rehabilitate and flip him or is

914
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,360
this something they look at like, oh, like, maybe we

915
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,400
have this kind of microwives microwave score secondary playmaker that

916
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,159
we can keep long term on this roster.

917
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: Yes, Uh, your guess is as good as mine and

918
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,320
maybe as good as theirs. At this point, I think

919
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,599
it was like them trying to do some stuff and

920
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:05,760
hope that they could immediately rehab him in a new setting,

921
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,239
and then maybe the Draymond punch really just threw him off,

922
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,960
you know that much. And I think there was like

923
00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:15,119
clearly some limitations there that Golden State helped kind of

924
00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:17,440
hide or protect a little bit better. And you mentioned

925
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,760
maybe you could use pool in like a Kis Pritty

926
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,719
kind of way. They tried that early in the year,

927
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,280
and he showed like very clearly he was not there

928
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,159
as an off ball player to kind of like play

929
00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:31,079
that way. And I think even if they can rehab

930
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,599
his value as like this hyper high usage on ball guard,

931
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,920
there are very few teams in the league that are

932
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,320
going to want to let him do that, I think,

933
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,960
or be built to need him to do that, because

934
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,559
they're going to have better, more efficient guys in that

935
00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:47,840
super high usage role. And what he basically proved last

936
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,599
year was like, if you need him to be kind

937
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:54,239
of this like secondary guy, he's not seemingly well equipped

938
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,719
to do that, And so I actually think even the

939
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,000
second half of last year may have hurt his value more.

940
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,400
Aren't the best way to rehabit is to actually show

941
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,840
that he can do some of those off ball things again,

942
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,400
because that makes him maybe more palatable to flip to

943
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,280
a playoff team. Like if I'm the Lakers or somebody,

944
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,119
am I gonna let him come in and have like

945
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:15,599
a thirty percent usage rate on a thief Lebron and

946
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,719
Anthony Davis. No, but if he could do like Austin

947
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,079
reevesy types things for me, like, you know, maybe that's

948
00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:24,800
a little easier to take on like that huge number

949
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,840
with only a year a year and a half left

950
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,239
on the deal when he gets to that point, so

951
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,400
it's it's going to be interesting. I don't know. I

952
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,239
just think at this point you just kind of like

953
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,639
let it play out. And if you can maybe flip

954
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,679
him down the road, great, and if not, like it's

955
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:39,760
just somebody to kind of be your tank commander until

956
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,960
then and the.

957
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,039
Speaker 1: And that's a great point. And the other challenge here

958
00:40:43,039 --> 00:40:45,239
now is that, Okay, we've had two consecutive seasons of

959
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,800
Jordan Poole not being good and the same way that

960
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,239
it feels like anecdotally and I mean probably there's evidence

961
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,960
for just too. Is like, once a player signs for

962
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,159
the minimum, it's very hard for him to be viewed

963
00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:57,360
as more than a minimum player. Like brook Lope as

964
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,599
an exception, he goes from bi annual just making you know,

965
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:01,800
has a bit more last year, like using the Rockets

966
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,559
as a stalking horse. But with Jordan Polt's like he

967
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:06,840
could have a great season like through up to the

968
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,519
February trade deadline, and teams are just probably gonna be

969
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:11,719
reticent to pull the trigger on a deal for him

970
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,119
because of what just happened over the past couple of seasons,

971
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,480
which is like creates an interesting challenge. Fantastic point on

972
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,039
like if you can get him not just doing but

973
00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:25,559
like making shots or leveraging like space, like getting defenses

974
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:27,639
to react to him off the ball, like that would

975
00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,519
be the pathway to not even just rehabbing his value.

976
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:33,159
But oh, like there's a theory of him on this player.

977
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that's the thing for me, Like I

978
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,840
can I've seen Kyle Kuzma be this like third fourth

979
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,400
offensive piece on a good team. So if I'm a

980
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,800
team trading for somebody, I know I can let him

981
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,079
do that. And if I need more offense, he can

982
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:49,039
take on more offense. If I need him to be switchable,

983
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:51,960
he can take on you know, more defensive responsibilities or

984
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,760
more playmaking. Like there's versatility there. Pool is like this

985
00:41:56,039 --> 00:41:59,920
very one dimensional. I need to be like broke Man's

986
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:03,400
James Harden and have everybody revolve around me to like

987
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,360
contribute in a at least semi positive way. And and

988
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:09,440
maybe that's a little harsh, Like I'm with you. I

989
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,000
thought he was so much better the second half of

990
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:14,519
the season, but he was also on my mount rushmore

991
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:16,920
of players I hated watching most in a wizard's uniform

992
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,320
in the first half of the season, So like the

993
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,159
bar was really low, and I just I still can't

994
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:23,920
really reconcile, like will we see more positive growth or

995
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,880
the second half of the season is just that kind

996
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,760
of like the peak of what he'll be, you know,

997
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:28,400
as a Wizard.

998
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,519
Speaker 1: And also even like the steadiest version of Jordan Poole's

999
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,599
still a little little anarctic Like a lot of the

1000
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:35,480
plays like seem like they come off broken. Oh he

1001
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:37,960
dribbled too much and like the defenses for some reason

1002
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,039
overreacted to this guy being in circles and found somebody.

1003
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:45,119
But if it works, it works. Uh, I can't bring myself.

1004
00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:47,119
I don't want to say care but to think too

1005
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:50,440
much about like Kyle Kuzma and Malcolm Brogden and Jonas Palenciunas,

1006
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,800
are they very much then you might have alluded to

1007
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,559
this already earlier in the pod becaust like are they

1008
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:57,639
very much like the transient placeholders that they seem like

1009
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:58,760
on this team?

1010
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,559
Speaker 2: I hope so, I think all Wizards fans kind of

1011
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:06,280
hope so, Like I irrationally like Kyle Kuzma, I also

1012
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,440
just don't need all three of them to be here

1013
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,719
long term, Like if you can't get real value back

1014
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,199
for Kuzma, like keep it keeping the length of the contract,

1015
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,360
somebody's got to make twenty million on this team to

1016
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,920
eat you know, the salary floor, and somebody's got to

1017
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,760
take on a certain amount of on ball reps. Like

1018
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,360
I actually think that actually helps shield your rookies a

1019
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,679
little bit when they're not asked to do way too much,

1020
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,159
way too early and break their confidence and things like that.

1021
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:32,920
But like, as presumably some of these younger guys want

1022
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,559
to scale up over time, can you have Pool and

1023
00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:39,079
Kuzma and a few of these other vets like eating

1024
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:41,480
up so many in those minutes? I don't think so. Personally,

1025
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,039
Like a Brogden is maybe easier because he's kind of

1026
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:49,679
like less usage and a little more just malleable to

1027
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,440
what you need him to be and can do that

1028
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,159
better in leader eything Alan Tuonis maybe same kind of way,

1029
00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:57,400
but over time, Like I don't think he's in the

1030
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,559
long term future. They've also got a glut of bigs

1031
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:02,159
I think now at a certain point, like do we

1032
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:05,199
really need a full year of valentiunists Rashaun Holmes and

1033
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,840
Marvin Bagley? So is there anyone there that you could

1034
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,400
potentially flip for anything, Like I don't think anyone's wanting

1035
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,320
to trade for Rashaun Holmes at thirteen million a year

1036
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,039
or whatever the case. May be unless it's part of

1037
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,599
a bigger trade. So like Bagley is the one I

1038
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:19,559
would look at. It's like maybe he's still young enough

1039
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,039
that if you can keep him healthy and productive for

1040
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:24,880
a full year, like maybe another team could talk themselves

1041
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,519
into it. But like I just you got to move

1042
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:31,559
somebody for something, Like the cupboard was so bare from

1043
00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:34,320
an asset perspective, you know when they took over this

1044
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,679
rebuild that just like they've kind of like struck out

1045
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,599
a couple of times on flipping some of these vets

1046
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:42,800
or assets. Like the tighest Jones thing is tough. Like

1047
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,679
if you had even two second round picks, you know,

1048
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:47,800
on the table at the deadline, and you chose to

1049
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,559
keep him and you don't get anything for him, Like

1050
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,760
that's kind of rough. So you've got to turn some

1051
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,639
of these dudes into something at some point, Like you

1052
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:57,679
can't afford to let them all leave here and not

1053
00:44:57,679 --> 00:44:58,760
get anything out of it either.

1054
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: I wonder if the this stuff played out with Tis

1055
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,119
Jones will form how they handle Malcolm Rogson a little bit.

1056
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:06,400
Whi's just a similar situation in the sense it's it's

1057
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,239
an expiring contract of a useful player. But if you're

1058
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,840
holding out for a first I don't know if you

1059
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,920
get that for him, Yeah.

1060
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,079
Speaker 2: If you get two like real second round picks, like

1061
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:18,960
I would just go help him move tomorrow. I mean,

1062
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:22,039
like it's just whatever you can do to get some

1063
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,880
value and some kind of tangible asset for him. If

1064
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,679
it's like top fifty protected, like okay, and the other

1065
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,840
team can kind of kick rocks with that. But like

1066
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,119
if it's real stuff that you could turn into a

1067
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:35,039
player or used to you know, trade up in a

1068
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:38,199
draft and get a real player, like that's actual value

1069
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,280
to me. But if yeah, you're holding out for a

1070
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,000
first round pick for him, I think just given what

1071
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:45,400
we've seen and he makes enough money that unless the

1072
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,559
team is really desperate for exactly that player, there's the

1073
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:50,920
injury history there, like all this other kind of stuff,

1074
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,199
like he's he's a risk, and how much are you

1075
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,000
really going to give up to take a thirty year

1076
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,079
old guy that's got foot problems? You know, I think

1077
00:45:58,119 --> 00:45:59,960
it's questionable.

1078
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 1: Kuzma's fascinating in the sense that he's on a deal

1079
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,480
that's just in declines. It's a good contract if you're

1080
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:09,639
like from a team perspective, and he's a very useful player.

1081
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:11,880
But I think if you rewind back to his time

1082
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,239
with the Lakers, the concern was always like what is

1083
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,000
he gonna look like on defense? Not how does he

1084
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:18,719
fit into like a larger offensive ecosystem. And I Almos

1085
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,039
kind of feel like that's flip flopped in Washington, where

1086
00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:22,440
if you're a good team trying to trade for him,

1087
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,719
and I wonder if that's because like I'm at the

1088
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,960
point where it's if you're gonna get the equivalent of

1089
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,920
like two first round picks for him, it's not even

1090
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,559
just do it. It's like if that offer was on

1091
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:33,480
the table, would they've already done it? Yeah?

1092
00:46:33,639 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you. I think I didn't buy the

1093
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,039
whole Like we didn't trade him too Dallas because he

1094
00:46:39,079 --> 00:46:41,559
didn't want to go and we're such nice guys kind

1095
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,079
of thing. Like I think if they'd really gotten like

1096
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:46,679
a real to first round pick offer, like they would

1097
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,360
just wished him well and just said this is a

1098
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,239
good enough spot and we're happy to send you there,

1099
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,159
and probably wouldn't have been in a hurry to trade

1100
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:55,159
Gafford if they didn't have to get something back. So

1101
00:46:56,039 --> 00:46:58,199
I think you're right to me if I were another GM,

1102
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,679
I wouldn't worry about that just because I know there's

1103
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,599
some team out there that will would need him to

1104
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:05,440
come in and be some instant offense off the bench

1105
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:07,800
or whatever the case may be, or like run bench units.

1106
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,360
Not that he needs to come off the bench, but

1107
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,519
you know what I mean, like the secondary extra scorer

1108
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:15,119
kind of guy. And in the playoffs, he's still a

1109
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:17,079
guy that can get his own shot and do some

1110
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:19,639
of these other things where like I was looking at

1111
00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:22,320
that Dallas team, like you didn't really want Derek Jones

1112
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:23,840
Junior to ever put the ball on the floor. He

1113
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,199
didn't really want PJ. Washington to put the ball on

1114
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,920
the floor. Like they played kind of you know, above

1115
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,480
their pay grade overall. But could they have used one

1116
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:34,559
third guy that could actually create for himself when like.

1117
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:36,599
Speaker 1: Really lock in.

1118
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like to me, I think that would have

1119
00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:41,039
been a valuable pick up for him if they could

1120
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:44,000
have made it work and for them, like a late

1121
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:45,719
first round pick, if that's what it took to get

1122
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,719
it done. You know, I I would do that if

1123
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,239
I were a team. So it's just going to really

1124
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,000
depend on who the team is and what the need

1125
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:55,119
is at the deadline. If I know you're Boston or something,

1126
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:57,039
you've got to do something to make a move because

1127
00:47:57,079 --> 00:47:59,159
you've been kind of stagnant and fizzled out in the

1128
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,199
first round of paoffs last two years, Like could you

1129
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,960
get too late first from Milwaukee or whoever the case,

1130
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,360
you know, like that kind of team. You know, I

1131
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,559
don't know who has that to give up, but I'm

1132
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:12,920
okay with them holding out because there's no like ticking

1133
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,400
clock on him. The contract is gonna look better over time.

1134
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: Here it's still funny because he doesn't make as much

1135
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,840
sense the anymore. But Dallas would still be a good

1136
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,599
fit because I guess they have clay now and Nagy work,

1137
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:24,920
but they're just like so fucking huge, like they're perimeter

1138
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:28,159
players with the exception of Carrier are just big and so.

1139
00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:30,719
But yeah, I actually don't think when you look at

1140
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,840
Kusmas specifically, he doesn't seem to be like a malecontent

1141
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,840
in Washington. So that's great. And as you said, you

1142
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,639
need to give someone the money. He does kind of

1143
00:48:37,679 --> 00:48:39,599
feel a need. The only way that I would look

1144
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:41,519
at it as oh, he needs to go because they're

1145
00:48:41,519 --> 00:48:44,639
going to be bad enough too, is is this infringing

1146
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,960
in any way upon the development of all these other

1147
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,480
players who are more important to a longer term picture.

1148
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:52,440
And I don't think, to be clear, I don't think

1149
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,519
it's like his personality or something that he would do

1150
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:57,400
deliberately or go rogue on the court that does that,

1151
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,320
But his play style on offense within this group might

1152
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,519
inherently kind of cap how much you know, Yeah, okay,

1153
00:49:03,519 --> 00:49:04,800
we like you could probably find a way to make

1154
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,400
bub Carrington still get plenty of floor general reps. But

1155
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,400
as long as Kyle Kusma's here, Like, is it going

1156
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,079
to be a lot more difficult to give bilaal Coolbali

1157
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:15,079
more offensive responsibility, even get Keishan George to a point

1158
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:17,400
where it's we want to have him get regular minutes

1159
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,039
with the big club.

1160
00:49:18,519 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of the tough part, I think,

1161
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,719
because I think he's actually malleable enough that the answerst know,

1162
00:49:23,079 --> 00:49:25,119
he probably doesn't hold them back because like that first

1163
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,119
year when he came in, he was content to be

1164
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,639
like kind of more of a creator and just take

1165
00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:31,960
shots when he was with like, you know, the other

1166
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,719
bench guys and stuff like that. But he was willing

1167
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,559
to defer in the first quarters to to Porzingis and

1168
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:39,000
defer in the fourth quarter to the tabil and like

1169
00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:42,239
that wasn't a problem. So I think you can can

1170
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,920
play him some with the three, play him some at

1171
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,719
the four. Could you do a little small ball five?

1172
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,760
Like he can do other things enough that I don't

1173
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,159
think he inhibits these other guys. It's to me, it's

1174
00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:52,159
really cool that does that, right, Like he needs the

1175
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:56,079
ball so much and he's just like exclusively a one

1176
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,599
you know, two lead offensivecilitator initiator type, and like does

1177
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:05,079
that hold above back longer term? Like to me, it's

1178
00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:08,159
easier to play bub next to Malcolm Brogden and let

1179
00:50:08,199 --> 00:50:10,360
them kind of like, yeah, yeah, my turn, his turn.

1180
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:14,000
Who runs the show. So but you can't trade pool,

1181
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:16,599
Like he's untradeable at this point, so you're kind of

1182
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:19,360
stuck with him. So if somebody has to go, it's

1183
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,519
probably Kuzma. But I don't think in a vacuum he'd

1184
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:23,320
kind of be a problem in that sense.

1185
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: No, And maybe I'm being too narrow minded about it.

1186
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,199
I guess I was doing it more as like there's

1187
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:29,840
a difference of being deferential to Bradley be On, christ

1188
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,800
Carrington and Alex are type deal.

1189
00:50:33,519 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: I think he seems to like get the assignment enough

1190
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,360
of like he's trying to do all like the off

1191
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,840
court veteran you know, veteran leadership stuff like you heard

1192
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,559
Dennys all the time, Like he's the guy that would

1193
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:43,519
play one on one with me after practice every day

1194
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:45,519
and help me grow my game. Like I think there's

1195
00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:49,320
enough like ancillary benefit to having him on the roster

1196
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,119
that if you told him, like, hey, we need you

1197
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:53,840
to be more deferential and create for some of these guys.

1198
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,800
It seems like he's a willing enough dude to want

1199
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,480
to do that. But you know, maybe not.

1200
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: Uh. I'm realizing just now that I didn't fill out

1201
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,559
a top ten outline, and the thing I sent you

1202
00:51:03,639 --> 00:51:05,519
for this team it was last year, is what does

1203
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:08,039
the top ten rotation do you look like at at

1204
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:09,239
full strength for this roster?

1205
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a couple of no brainers here right,

1206
00:51:12,039 --> 00:51:13,679
Like Pool is going to play a ton of minutes,

1207
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,079
Kuzma's going to play a ton of minutes again, at

1208
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:17,559
least for the first half of the year. This is

1209
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:19,440
how I'm projecting it out. And I think Valanciunas is

1210
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,480
going to get plenty of minutes, although you don't need

1211
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:24,320
to play him a ton a ton. I think kool

1212
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:25,880
Bali's going to get a good amount of minutes. I

1213
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,679
think Kispert's going to get a good amount of minutes.

1214
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,480
I think Brogden gets a good amount of minute. So

1215
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,280
you're at six right now. That's when it starts to

1216
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,920
be like, all right, we'll kind of see what they're,

1217
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,639
you know, willing to do here. Like I said, I

1218
00:51:35,639 --> 00:51:38,440
think Jared Butler gets a decent amount of minutes, especially early,

1219
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:44,000
so that's probably seven, and then it's probably one of

1220
00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:48,000
Homes or Bagley play some minutes as another big so

1221
00:51:48,039 --> 00:51:49,960
that probably puts you at eight. I think Sar is

1222
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,920
definitely going to get minutes. That's nine, and then I

1223
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,480
think bub has to get a certain amount of minutes,

1224
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,639
so that's probably your ten. The Wizards also seem like

1225
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,199
very willing to like play some randos, So could there

1226
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,000
be a long stretch where Eugenamrui is getting minutes or

1227
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:09,000
Justin Champenne is getting minutes Like that wouldn't really surprise

1228
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:11,960
me that much either, So I think that that would

1229
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,679
be like the ten I would go with, and then

1230
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,719
somebody's out with injury one of those other guys kinds

1231
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:16,679
of fills in here and there.

1232
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: This will if this is terrible podcasting, I'm appropriate like

1233
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,159
that's this is one of the teams where that's question

1234
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,760
just feels like it holds no water because not just

1235
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,760
there will be turnover, but like a ten man rotation

1236
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,400
feels thin based off like runt their team.

1237
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, rotate through everybody and let them all get minutes.

1238
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,880
Like I'd like to see Bagley play, like I said,

1239
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,440
just to see if he has any you know, flippability

1240
00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:41,239
in him. But you know, if he can't stay healthy,

1241
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,360
he can't stay healthy. So he was like kind of

1242
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,679
good here for the thirty games or whatever he played.

1243
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,000
It's just it's only like thirty games or whatever, so

1244
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:49,800
that that's really the challenge with him too.

1245
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: You can approach this question however you want, whether you

1246
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,320
think that they should be wanting to lose said crunch

1247
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,239
time game or win said crunch time game. What is

1248
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,199
that clutch most used clutch lineup you're gonna go to.

1249
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 2: Uh, what do I think they'll go with? Or what

1250
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:05,960
would I go with?

1251
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,079
Speaker 1: You can give me both, I mean, like you could

1252
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:09,880
go that. You can also do the tank commander rout

1253
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,199
where it's like, well, I'm gonna put players on the

1254
00:53:11,199 --> 00:53:13,960
court that I know will lose, said said close game.

1255
00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:17,079
Speaker 2: I think if they're gonna like try to win a

1256
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:21,559
game at the end, it's probably Valentiunis, Kuzma, Kula Bali

1257
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,280
some of the time. Maybe I think kiss Bert's out

1258
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,559
there for the shooting because they'll both trust him to

1259
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:30,679
do like good offensive things, and Pool will definitely be

1260
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:34,000
out there. So like situationally, it's probably you need more

1261
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:37,119
ball handling, maybe you go Broggden, you need more wing,

1262
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:39,679
need defenderiness, you go kol A Bali. But those are

1263
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,039
probably the six guys I think get the most consideration.

1264
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,159
Speaker 1: You know, with the game online, is there a weird,

1265
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:50,599
random offbeat lineup you're hoping that they'll roll out this season.

1266
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,639
Speaker 2: I'd love to see a little Sar Kuzma, Kola Bali,

1267
00:53:56,079 --> 00:53:59,719
kiss Bert, Pool or maybe bub kind of stuff and

1268
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,000
just get a little weird with it and try to

1269
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:06,119
run on people and play fast. But it would also

1270
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,719
just be like a terrible defensive rebounding unit too, so

1271
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,119
it's a little hard to pull off.

1272
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: I want to see something that's no bigs and no

1273
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,480
like quote unquote guards give me, give me bub guys, Yeah,

1274
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,719
give me bub balal Kuzma, Kuzma kiss Bert and look,

1275
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,719
I guess look at it has to be Justin Champagne.

1276
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,400
I think I think that's the Okay, maybe George there is.

1277
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,039
Speaker 2: I'd be all in on that the second half of

1278
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:33,880
the year. They could just play them thirty five minutes

1279
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,280
a game like that, I'd be fine.

1280
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: I'd watch. So if they're looking to get people to

1281
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,840
tune in, I think that's the way to get people

1282
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,320
to tune in. Uh So, does this team have any

1283
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,320
potential strengths or just something What's something about them that's

1284
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,000
flying under the radar that maybe people aren't talking about.

1285
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 2: Enough, Like young legs is always annoying for other teams

1286
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,880
to play, and I think they'll play enough young guys that,

1287
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:59,280
like in March, they're gonna be kind of annoying to

1288
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,400
play against it. And I think Pool will be better

1289
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,159
this year, and he's got enough uh you know, heat

1290
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:09,320
checkedness to him that they could maybe you know, make

1291
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,440
this tougher on a couple of playoff teams or people

1292
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,440
worried about like their playoff seating and stuff like that.

1293
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:15,639
So I think they could maybe be like kind of

1294
00:55:15,639 --> 00:55:18,519
fun spoilery guys the second half of the year, although

1295
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,599
keep in mind, I don't think they'll want to win

1296
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,480
too many games. I just I think the first like

1297
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,239
two thirds of the year they're going to really struggle

1298
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,039
to win like seven or eight games. So if they

1299
00:55:27,039 --> 00:55:29,639
win ten, you know, down the stretch of the year, like,

1300
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:31,079
it's probably not the worst thing in the world.

1301
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:33,639
Speaker 1: I really hope. Though you mentioned the young legs thing.

1302
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,760
I think more teams might take this seriously in general

1303
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,800
if they pick up what happened last year. These are

1304
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,119
just to be an objectively funny team to run off

1305
00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:43,639
a bunch of wins in like the NBA Cup games. Yeah,

1306
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,000
where's just like they cut other Oh it's the Wizards,

1307
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,400
like we don't, we don't this game matters tecondly, we

1308
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,679
don't need to get up for them. And then it's just,

1309
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,639
oh no, like they played all the vets and they

1310
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,599
just like they tried really hard and they want and

1311
00:55:53,639 --> 00:55:55,320
oh my god, they're.

1312
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 2: One and forty on us.

1313
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, like exactly, that's what and by the way, that's

1314
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,760
what I want. I mentioned this to Jackson when we

1315
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,280
were doing the Pistons Look Ahead That's what I really

1316
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,320
want to happen with the NBA couple. Like the Pacers

1317
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,400
were nice, but we anyone who follows the NBA, even

1318
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,280
if you don't watch them, knew the Pacers were good

1319
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,800
and up and coming. I want just this random ass

1320
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,199
team like Charlotte to just run off or Detroit or

1321
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,360
Washington like Portland this year, just get super frisky in

1322
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,199
the NBA Cup games. I think that would be great.

1323
00:56:20,679 --> 00:56:23,079
Speaker 2: Portland's like, weirdly the one I could see do it,

1324
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,599
Like they're the pieces don't really fit, but there's enough

1325
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:29,039
like decent pieces there that could they get hot and

1326
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:31,159
rattle off a couple wins in a row like that,

1327
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:32,199
Like I coul kind of see that.

1328
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: They have like a lot of good individual defenders now,

1329
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,960
like clinging Avdia, Jeremy Grant, Mattista cybele is is there,

1330
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,239
Tomani Kamara was fantastical. So that would be a team

1331
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,159
where it's they might win every game. Is in the

1332
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,360
nineties at that point, but it could work. So uh,

1333
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:49,679
I just I'm rooting for that. I root for chaos,

1334
00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:51,159
but I just want a random team to just like

1335
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,960
at least advance, like really deep into the the NBA.

1336
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: Cup tournament, it'd get weird with it. I'm all for that.

1337
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: So as we're recording this, which is in the middle

1338
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,039
of August, they're over under. I used FanDuel for this

1339
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:06,000
twenty one and a half. Would you take the over

1340
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:08,239
under on that? And how many wins do you actually

1341
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:09,559
see them ending up with.

1342
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 2: I'm in like the sixteen seventeen kind of territory. I

1343
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,960
think here and and I think on paper they probably

1344
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,199
are like a twenty two win team. I just don't

1345
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:21,519
think that this runt office will like let that happen.

1346
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:23,599
And that's kind of the like the main thing I'm

1347
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:26,039
banking on with them. It's just like, please, for the

1348
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,880
love of God, don't let that happen. So I would

1349
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,159
like hammer the under and feel like it like incredibly

1350
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,039
safe about it. There's just no world to me where

1351
00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:36,519
this like a twenty five win team. And there was

1352
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:39,760
like a decent amount of like Wizard's Twitter as they

1353
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,719
signed you know, Valentunas, that was like, oh are we

1354
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,840
too good now? It's like come on, guys, like you

1355
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,480
traded away Abdia, like he's probably your best player, and

1356
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:49,440
like Jones was a better player than I think we

1357
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,159
were willing to give him credit for he just kind

1358
00:57:51,159 --> 00:57:54,840
of didn't fit next to Pool, but like they objectively

1359
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:58,000
got worse because now more minutes are going to go

1360
00:57:58,039 --> 00:58:01,119
to rookies and historically that doesn't really like end well

1361
00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:03,840
for teams. So there's no way that they hit the over.

1362
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,719
Speaker 1: To me, I agree with everything you said, And the

1363
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,079
biggest thing is the front office just isn't gonna let

1364
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:11,000
that happen. And the only way I could kind of

1365
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,800
see them not the only way, but if they hit

1366
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,039
the over, it almost feels like, well, they didn't give

1367
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:18,119
the young kids enough run for the first half of

1368
00:58:18,159 --> 00:58:20,679
the season and they won too many games because Pool

1369
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,360
was good, Kuzma was good, Jonas Valanciunas was good, Malcolm

1370
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,320
Brogden was good. And that's like, that's not a situation

1371
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,199
you want to be in because it's okay, it might

1372
00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:29,760
be fun to win some games, but you want to

1373
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,800
develop your youth. It's not just oh, it's Jebruary. We

1374
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,280
could play the kids like it's just.

1375
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: The only way that'd be like okay, though, is if

1376
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,119
that happened and those guys played well enough that maybe

1377
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:41,639
you then flipped them for actual more assets, you know,

1378
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:44,360
like that's the only silver lining there, and then you

1379
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,719
could just go so young the second half of the year,

1380
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:47,960
maybe you kind of make up for it.

1381
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,239
Speaker 1: But if Ted leonsis lets you, is he gonna demand

1382
00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:51,719
that they go for a play in birth if they're

1383
00:58:51,719 --> 00:58:54,480
like they're like eight games under five hundred in January, Like, no,

1384
00:58:54,519 --> 00:58:56,559
we gotta keep pushing, like we're right outside the play

1385
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:00,280
in and East is gonna make the play in by mistake. Yeah,

1386
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,000
when you look at the teams that are like competing

1387
00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:03,719
for those spots, like once you get to eight or nine,

1388
00:59:03,719 --> 00:59:05,960
it's like, do these teams really even want to be here.

1389
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,639
Speaker 2: If they get so tempted by a play and run

1390
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,079
that Ted like punts on the rebuild to do that.

1391
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:14,960
This will be the last preseason podcast we can do

1392
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,239
together because I will just not be on this earth anymore.

1393
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,159
I think it's kind of where I'll be at, Like I'll.

1394
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: Just honestly think like Winger and Dawkins would just resign

1395
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:23,199
to I think there I hope.

1396
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you got to have enough credibility to push

1397
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,880
back there and be like this is a bad idea.

1398
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:31,039
Speaker 1: Uh man, is there any one anything about this team?

1399
00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:32,800
We didn't talk about that you think needs to be

1400
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,280
discussed before I let you skidatl.

1401
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,079
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think it's just this will be

1402
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:41,800
like a really interesting kind of thought experiment here on

1403
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,519
like how much Summer League matters, Like if Alexar comes

1404
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:46,559
in and it's just like solid ten and five from

1405
00:59:46,639 --> 00:59:48,880
day one and just does easy, simple stuff and plays

1406
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,480
good defense, Like I just never want to hear people

1407
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:53,760
talk about Summer League ever again, and what the you

1408
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,639
know that actually means for people, and like vice versa,

1409
00:59:56,679 --> 00:59:59,159
Like bub I thought was like pretty darn good in

1410
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:01,199
Summer League. If he struggles this year, like I don't

1411
01:00:01,199 --> 01:00:02,920
want to hear the opposite of that either. It's just

1412
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,920
sort of like their rookies and you're gonna let them

1413
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,559
play through mistakes, and that's what this year should be about.

1414
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:11,440
And I don't know, I really truly believe, like cool

1415
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,159
Bonbie's going to be a lot better this year. I

1416
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:15,039
know you and Grant are both big on him too,

1417
01:00:15,079 --> 01:00:17,559
and we're going to defend our guy here and protect

1418
01:00:17,559 --> 01:00:20,599
our guy at all costs. So I think he's gonna

1419
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:21,800
take a big jump, and I think it'll be fun

1420
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,360
to watch for you know, yeah he is, that won't

1421
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:24,800
watch the NBA and watch the Wizards.

1422
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: Otherwise, if if he has anything less than a thirty

1423
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,920
eight percent usage, the Wizards have failed this year. I've decided, like,

1424
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000
let's get it up up in the forties.

1425
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:34,639
Speaker 2: Fold the team at that point.

1426
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: Uh, Matt, this was great as always. Thank you for

1427
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,000
giving me so much of your time, and even more,

1428
01:00:41,079 --> 01:00:43,719
thank you for giving me so much of your although

1429
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,920
just made me think of something I can't remember who

1430
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,519
I was listening to on the Star Front where they said, like,

1431
01:00:48,719 --> 01:00:51,480
generally speaking, when it comes to big men in summer league,

1432
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:54,920
their performances cannot really predict what's going to happen in

1433
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,840
the NBA. So that's probably a good sign. I don't

1434
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,280
want to. I think I know who it is, but

1435
01:00:58,280 --> 01:00:59,800
I don't want to guess on air attribute to them.

1436
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,480
And then and also what if I'm just lying for

1437
01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:03,559
some reason, But that would be a vote of just

1438
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:04,960
like all right, you could go ahead and throw out

1439
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,280
summer league because it's not just I tend not to

1440
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,119
read too much into the negatives because I want to

1441
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:11,039
give young players that chance. But if there's like actual

1442
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:13,440
data that shows big men, it's just harder to read

1443
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,760
into what you see then that's even better. And it's look,

1444
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,280
you mentioned it already his role what he was doing

1445
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,239
in Summer League. If he's doing it with the Wizards,

1446
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:24,000
I would honestly argue they're not doing something wrong, but

1447
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:26,639
he's like hijacking it and deciding to do it himself at.

1448
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 2: That point, right, Yeah, they've given him too much freedom

1449
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:31,440
to do those kinds of things, and hey, that's okay.

1450
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,400
You're definitely getting Cooper flying at that point, so it's

1451
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,639
a win win, Matt.

1452
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: I'll go back to my outro. This was great. Thank

1453
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,880
you for so much of your time and your insight.

1454
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:42,719
Are you just able to tell our fantastic listeners where

1455
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,760
they can find you and all the great content that

1456
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:45,239
you put out.

1457
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:47,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me and enjoying

1458
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:50,119
in the discord so far so plugged everybody else, go

1459
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:50,679
to Legend.

1460
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,639
Speaker 1: It's in the intro to your discord. Legend.

1461
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:58,639
Speaker 2: That's that's terrifying for anybody involved there, but I appreciate that. Yeah,

1462
01:01:58,679 --> 01:02:01,039
believe in Wizards. Check us out. Me and former Wizard

1463
01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:04,679
Center Ja Hotti White. I'm actually gonna record here later today,

1464
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:06,320
not the day you're listening to it, but later the

1465
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,480
day we're recording this, so get to talk about the

1466
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,559
Wizards for two and a half consecutive hours. So that's

1467
01:02:11,639 --> 01:02:14,440
as masochistic as it gets. But I'll try to talk

1468
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,679
about other stuff and get to Hotty's perspective on just

1469
01:02:16,719 --> 01:02:19,840
like what it's like from a player's vantage point when

1470
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,480
certain things happen in the league. So even if you

1471
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,960
don't care about the Wizards, try to tease those kind

1472
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,599
of things out from him and then just you know,

1473
01:02:25,639 --> 01:02:27,960
he's pretty candid and like a great dude, so I

1474
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,079
don't give us a try.

1475
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,159
Speaker 1: And also I love the clips. Won't confess to the

1476
01:02:31,159 --> 01:02:32,840
Saving podcast. We do a great job with the DMV.

1477
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,840
Who just knows interview clips that I see posted and

1478
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,760
watch less too, so go check that out as well. Matt,

1479
01:02:38,199 --> 01:02:39,639
thank you for so much of your time as always.

1480
01:02:39,679 --> 01:02:41,079
As you know by now, I will be pestering you

1481
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:42,559
again in the future though, so I will talk to

1482
01:02:42,599 --> 01:02:43,559
you too,