Speaker 1: What is a fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley coming
at you with the official start of the twenty twenty
four twenty twenty five NBA season look Ahead train. We
begin with the Washington Wizards, which means we get to
talk to the homie and the discord legend, Matt Maderno.
Follow him on Twitter at m Att m O D
d E R n oh. He's the host of the
Believe in Wizards podcast with former Wizard Johati White. They
do a great job over there, and he also hosts
the DMV Hoops podcast does some stuff for Bullets Forever.
He is awesome. We get into all things Wizards. This
is great and I would just like to reiterate the
hoops that Grant and I are jumping through to make
sure that this series gets out there. We cover every
single team in depth, getting their own podcast with a
local expert. It's pretty trying this year compared to years
when looking at our schedule, so please come out show support.
If you're new around these parts. We have a lot
of fun around here, covering the entire NBA all year long.
Subscribe across all platforms, Spotify, Apple, Stitchers. That's still out
there YouTube, the whole nine. We appreciate all the support
any new listeners that come through this, and of course
the ogs. As always, let's get to talking some wizards
with the legendary and again Discord Legend. Join our discord
links in the podcast and YouTube description. Mister Matt Maderna, Matt,
Welcome back to the Hardwood Knox Podcast. I think is
this your third You've been on the pod more than
three times, but is this your third look ahead? Because
last year wasn't.
Speaker 2: The first third look ahead? Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 1: Now it's your fault. I say that to everyone who's
done it three times. The first two I can trick you,
but now it's on you. You came back. You know
what you're in for, and I appreciate it, obviously, but
I like to deflect the responsibility of it onto you now.
Speaker 2: Like any good leader should. I think that's kind of
where we're at in the world right now. But yeah,
thanks for having me. I tell you this every time,
and I mean it every time. I listen to the
pod religiously, so it's just cool to be on here,
and thanks for having me back again.
Speaker 1: I love it. I really appreciate when people who I
listen to or I'm having on his guests also say
they listen to, so thank you that that means a
lot to both Grant and myself. Let's talk about these
Wizards though. So we're like a little bit more than
a year into the rebuild. I remember this wasn't this
time last summer, but we did probably one of the
few people that did like emergency Tommy Shepherd stuff right
like that.
Speaker 2: For sure, short list of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what have you made of just everything that's
happened since, including this offseason? What have you made of
the Wizards's over direction direction overall in terms of both
your thoughts and feelings about it, but like also what
does this all say about what they're actually trying to do?
Speaker 2: There's at least a direction and some of the moves
I'm like trying to figure out a little bit where
they're trying to go. But I'm not as worried about
them because you at least know there's like an overall,
here's the strategy, here's the thing we're trying to do.
It just seemed kind of like a rudderless ship under Shepherd,
and I don't know how much of that was ted
leonsis he's a pretty involved owner from what we hear
in terms of like kind of pushing you know, certain
things or mandates on the front office. So maybe not
all shepherds fault necessarily, but it seems like he's given
these guys kind of carte blanche to go do what
they need to do. I do kind of wonder, like
if there's a ticking clock on how long he'll give
them to rebuild this. I don't see him being the
patient five years into a rebuild owner, but you know,
if he gives him till twenty twenty six, like they
could probably get a pretty good dent to the way
there in terms of like at least getting them back
to where they were. That's the thing. Like they had
all these like veteran guys and they were still a
thirty five win team, So like the floor wasn't really
that high. You could rebuild for three years and be
almost just as good as that, you know, that team
with like young guys. So I think overall, so far,
like the moves just kind of makes sense in terms of, like,
all right, let's strip this for parts as much as
we can. You can nitpick over did they hold onto
this old guy a little too long and get a
little too greedy trying to extract one more second round
pick out of them. But like ultimately again at least
you can kind of figure out what they're trying to do.
Under Shepherd, he came in and is like, we will
be a playoff team, and then two years later it's
like we're gonna fight for the play in. So like
the bar kind of kept lowering itself over time, and
now it's like, no, we're gonna be bad. And I
don't know if this is a national thing, but like
Wizard Spans, especially DC area fans, we do this thing
every year where like we perpetually overrate our own guys,
and I think I've hammered the over like four years
in a row and just look stupid for doing it.
This is the first year I'm like, oh, twenty two
wins is the you know, the over under. I'm definitely
taking the under, Like it just seems like a no
brainer because I don't think these guys will let them
win more than twenty games.
Speaker 1: Well, it's off season, so we're all riding hopium, which
is so I totally understand that. What's interesting to me
is you mentioned this on one of your recent podcasts
with Johnny White. Go subscribe to Believe in Wizards. Mention
that in the intro links in the podcast and YouTube
description there's another plug not something I realized where it's
just like it feels like too many spots are given
to veterans, which I think in some instances, I think
it could be doing them a disservice. But then you
look at the DENIAVDA trade and regardless of how you
actually feel about the return of the dniavia trade, and
everyone who listens to this podcast knows that I'm still
in battle over it. Taking a twenty twenty nine first
round or as one of the primary forms of compensation
was almost encouraging to me because it was like, oh,
like this front office has real I know they got
Bob Carrington out of it too, and make a flip
Malcolm Brockton. But like the twenty twenty nine first round pick,
you could make the case, depending on how you feel
about Bob Carrington, that is the most valuable part of
that deal, and it's no worse than the second most
valuable part. And I say this to people all the time,
and to also remind myself it's cool to think about, oh,
they acquired all these distant first round picks, but front
offices don't think in those terms all the time because
most of the time they're not going to have their
jobs to use or trade or make those picks. And
so the fact that they accepted a twenty twenty nine
first is a primary, let's call it, a primary form
of compensation. I thought it was almost encouraging because it's like, oh,
maybe they really they really will see if true. Now,
whether leons Is gets you know, itchy over the next
year or two is different, but I thought at least
that was a good harbinger.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that, because it actually makes me
feel better about it. I've been kind of wrestling mentally
with how I feel about that trade because I liked Bub.
I like Bub still, but it was like we we
couldn't have gotten the pick in twenty twenty five, Like
that's the draft everyone wants to be in. But I
think the nice thing about you know, twenty twenty nine
is like, that's this sort of nebulous thing to all
these gms that will hold value for a lot longer,
where it's like almost a minute you draft somebody, they
become worth less than that pick in an equivalent draft,
Like it's hard. Could you flip bub for a lottery
pick next year? Like I don't know, you know, so
it at least twenty twenty nine is this far away
thing of like it just it'll maintain value as like
a you know, it's a first round pick. It's abstract
and I kind of like that too.
Speaker 1: What did you make and how did you feel about
the decision to stick with Brian keevan head coach moving
forward with it does seem like they kind of had
a real search, but a lot of the stuff that's
sort of set about him, it feels very anecdotal based
rather than like real evidence based, And so I don't
have an actual strugg I won't pretend to have a
strong opinion on it. So what did you just sort
of make of it?
Speaker 2: I don't have a strong opinion on it, Like that's
my strong opinion is that my opinion's not that strong
on it, Like it's it's fine. It's like sort of
the Brett Brown thing again. I think, you know, just
like we know we're going to be bad. This is
the guy that we're gonna rock with to develop some
players and just kind of weather the storm. We're not
gonna pay like a third coach on you know, have
the third coach on payroll for the next year by
moving on to somebody else or whatever. Like, I think
he's here for the next like probably two years, and
if they're good again in like twenty twenty six or
at least like trending back up in the twenty twenty
six twenty seven timeline, like, I guess he probably gets
a shot at it, you know, assuming he's like helped
these guys get better. And they went into last year
saying like, as long as Bilaal and Denny get better,
you know, wes Unseld has done his job, and well,
you know saw how that worked out for him. But
I think Keith was clearly their guy. They'll give him
as like fair as shake as you can get, and
then it's on him if he can transition for being
a developmental coach to like all right, starting to build
like a competitive team coach and I exaceid. I think
they'll give him every chance, but I don't really care. Personally,
the guy seem to like him, and at this point,
if you can kind of keep the vibes good enough
and guys will get better under you, and you know,
it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. Like,
no good coach was going to come in here and
do anything different. I don't think you know.
Speaker 1: Also the points like okay, well who's they missed out on,
which is tough to do with coaching, because we all
are I'll throw myself in here. I like to think
I know more about the game of basketball than I
actually do, and so it's like I can't point be like, well,
you're like you really missed out on you should have
went and got I have said I would have hired
Micah Norri for every team just because I don't know
if you saw that piece where he works in random
turns of phrase and words like basically off of dares
from his players and all those distance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's why I would.
Speaker 1: Base my HighRes off of, which is probably why I
don't run an NBA team, which.
Speaker 2: Is it's probably better than some of the reasons guys
higher people, so you know, I can't go wrong.
Speaker 1: He is indebted to me, though I did include the
outline because he made Belala starter before the fractured wrist,
and so like that's enough to I think he's earned
himself at least a ten year deal at minimum, but
it it.
Speaker 2: Gets the assignment, Like I think that's the biggest thing.
Like there wasn't this, Like watching the Olympics was really
tough because the Wizards were the one ping pong ball
away from getting Weben Yama and they did this late
like win seven of ten games surge that year to
kind of shoot themselves in the foot. So like I
don't think he will let them do that either. And
that's just big enough upfront of like, Okay, we're winning
too many games down the stretch, like you know what,
somebody good has a hamstring injury. Now I like that.
Speaker 1: So I dictate too much of how these podcasts go.
So this year I want to start thinking, or at
least the beginnings of things, what is the biggest Wizard
storyline that you were going to be tracking most closely
into this season and throughout it?
Speaker 2: Of course hashtag capture the Flag, Like that's what we
got to do this year here, we got to beat
out Brooklyn or whoever else wants to be real bad.
Like that's what this entire season is about for the Wizards,
is they've got some like nice developmental pieces like I'm
higher than cool BALI higher on him than most I
would say probably at this point. And so are like,
you know, whatever you take from Summer League, let's say
you take nothing from it, he's still like is the
guy you look at as like, oh, this is a
future like you know, star of the franchise, Like I
don't know, I think he's the ceiling. Is probably a
pretty good starter and versatile guy that every winning team needs.
Like that's great. Is bub you know, the next Baron
Davis or somebody like you know, I don't know what
the ceiling is for someone like him, but probably not
to me. I think he's like another really nice piece.
So I think this upcoming draft is like the one
you have to star hunt in, like whoever you can
get wherever you can get it in the draft, whoever
has like the most star potential of any of them,
swing as big as you can because they don't have
that guy yet to me, So that's what I'd be
using this draft for. So you just can't afford to
have twenty five wins this year and end up with
a seventh pick or something like that.
Speaker 1: How do you you would throw it through the lens
of we're now in year what it feels like, I
don't know, at least year five right of the flat
and lottery odds now that impact you're like view at
all of the value of being like, Okay, you can
be a bottom four team, sure, and there's pretty clear
pathway to do that because fourteen of the teams in
the West aren't currently trying to lose. But like there
feels like there's almost a trade off where it's like, well,
what cost do you need to do that? Because a
fourteen percent chance isn't all that much and then you
have at least you have three other teams that have
the same chance of getting it. So it was always
you're always more likely not to get the first the
number one overall pick, which was true beforehand, but those
odds have been substantially shortened over the past half decade
or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is, Like, I think Cooper Flag will be a
really good player just from what I've seen, but I
think there's some other good pieces in this. So it's
just lock yourself into like a top five pick. That's
that's the move. You know, if you can get the
number one pick up, great, but can you get VJ.
Edgecomb at five or one of those kind of guys,
Like that might be enough for Ace Bailey or whoever
you decide, Dylan Harper, like whoever the next couple guys
are for you come draft night, Like they've just got
to do that one right and kind of hit big
on it, I think, regardless of position or fit or
any of those kinds of things. And like I get,
like from the odds perspective, like it's not as important
to be the absolute worst team anymore, but you've just
got to ensure that you're in that like tier of
bottom couple of teams no matter what.
Speaker 1: And I think what you just said is that it's
not even just a perfect way. It was perfect, but
it's the only way to look at it if you're
going to go that route, is it's not just yeah,
it'd be great to get the number one pick, but
it's we want to lock ourselves into the top five
or whatever it is. And that makes more sense than
because it's what we're prepared to not have the number
one the number two pick when it happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like your chances of getting up to number one,
you know, they are what they are. But like I'd
much rather be you know, two and fall to four
than seven and hope I can get up to one
or something like that.
Speaker 1: So let's start with Bub Carrington just because we could
talk about Denyaffia with him. What are your thoughts now
that you've seen Bub play in Summer League and also
we're just what like two months removed from that trade. Basically,
where do you kind of we understand the thought process,
I think, but where do you sort of land on
the decision to make it the return the whole nine there?
Speaker 2: I think I'm like cautiously optimistic on him and where
he can develop into. Like he's young, he's got good
positional size. I think what he represents more from like
a team building philosophy is more important to me than
what we saw from him or you know, in Summer
League or anything like that. The Wizards have had like
small guard after small guard running their offense the last
like three or four years basically since Russell Westbrook. So
them drafting like a guard that's I don't know, above
average height for like the point guard position and can
maybe even play a little bit of off guard like
that represents to me that they're going with like that
Okac model of like positional versatility and and sort of like,
you know, we can switch one through four at least
East kind of stuff like this is a team that's
two years removed from playing two drop coverage centers and
their starting lineup together, So like getting modern, I think
is like a really big step for them. And that's
what I see with bub Like is he ever gonna
be a dynamic enough creator for others to be like
a really high level, all star level point guard? Like
I don't know, is he explosive enough to be a
twenty point per game score if he you know, if
he's not also shooting you know, forty percent from three
or whatever, or is he gonna shoot forty percent? Like
there's still question marks and there's open things that could
limit his ceiling. But seen enough really good stuff already
that that I feel really good about the pick. And
even if he doesn't fully pop you know, where I
think he can get. I still like what they're trying
to do and like I said, what he represents as
a player, and it makes me feel better about that
Denny trade just from all like, Okay, at least I
get the logic and the rationale and it's a defensible move,
whether I like it in a vacuum or not, what
what have you?
Speaker 1: Sort of This is so early impressions of it, but
the past saying the vision feels like it's further along
because the question has been, oh, can he be a
full time kind of floor general or that on ball guard,
and based off what we've seen so far, it feels
like the answer might be closer to yes than we thought.
Because what I watched from him in Summer League, it
just it felt very natural. It felt like the decision making,
like the cadence, the speed of it was there, the
accuracy of his passes they were different, they were on
target a lot of the time. And then just you
mentioned the size too. And so when I first started
any Obvious trade like, I didn't love it for any
of the sides. And then I think, coming away from it,
I like it better for the Wizards because I think
any obvious is fantastic. He was never gonna be your
best through even second best player on a contender probably,
And now I'm not saying bub Carrington will, but you
get a bite at that apple when you look at
what and also the thing that Denny is we've both
of us and I think everyone has been begging him
to do for years. Get those threes up, my guy,
And like Bubb didn't seem like any problem getting him
off in the Summer League.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think you nailed it there, right, Like
it's Denny's the better player right now. Odds are are
just based on how good a player I think he
is and you think he is. Like he may end
up being the better of the two of them long
term anyway, But the upside left of Bubb turning into
an All star level player is a higher to me,
I think than what the upside left of Denny turning
in that is. So just even if it's theoretical, I
think it's a bigger swing and it represents another kind
of roll this over give ourselves a chance at a
future star at the very least. And and yeah, I
think the passing was great. I don't know how to
like take that much away from Summer League. It's this
unstructured environment, and he's a guy that I think is
like built to play in an environment like that. And
just not to decern this into like the Hooper versus
basketball player discussion or whatever, but like I think he
is that kind of just like give him the ball,
give him the keys, and let him like go make
some plays. Will he be able to like do that
in a structured, you know situation where he has to
like run an actual offense. You know, jury still out
on that, and I think people that saw highlights saw
like the really good stuff. But there were times last
year where like Pittsburgh like had to give the keys
back to Ish Leggett because like bub just wasn't ready
for that. So it's better than I think it would be,
And I thought it would be at this stage probably
of things. But I think there's gonna be a lot
of growing pains this year too.
Speaker 1: Do you or would you care to guess, like what
type of agency will he have over the actual Wizards offense?
Because we know what they're doing as a direction, so
it feels like it's easy, like just to plumb the
depths of his umball skills. But you have Malcolm Brogden,
you have Jordan Poole, you have Kyle Kuzma, like and
if you want to saddle black Pool Bolli with more volume, like,
there are other mouths to feed. So do you have
any sense or any guesses to you know, will they
really let him loose and try and run the offense,
or do you think his role might be which is
also the problem with Summer League because a lot of
the times these guys are playing different roles there than
they will with the Wizards. So do you envision it
being it'll always be scaled back, but do like, could
it be a dramatic scale back from what they were
doing with him there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, just given how kind of like
deliberate they were with the progression for cool Bali last year,
that seems to signal to me that they're gonna be patient,
They're going to take their time. I thought they kind
of let especially Alex Sar kind of be out over
his skis at Summer League, and I don't like that personally,
Like I'd rather this here, like really simple things we
can give you right now, show you can do them,
and then we add more. Okay, then you can do
this next thing, then we add something else to it.
I think that's what they'll try to do with him.
And to be honest with you, like I expect Jared
Butler to be the backup point guard to start the
season on a non guaranteed deal, but just a little
like more solid and ready to go, I think at
this point, and they may play some together. He may
kind of mix in with the starters as more of
like an off ball guy, secondary ball hindler kind of thing.
But I don't think they're going to just be like,
you know, here you go, bub day one, like you're
running the show anytime Jordan Poole's not in here ready
to do it. There's also just like, I know Jordan
Poole was better as kind of the lead creator, but
but there's also there was some really bad Jordan Pool
last year too, and there might be nights where it's
just like, we just need a steadying hand. And I
don't know if you want to go from Pool if
he's having kind of like a wild night to a rookie.
So I expect like Butler to be the guy they
give the ball to to just like just be in here,
be steady, be solid, don't do anything flashy, just like
bring the ball across half court and run the set.
Speaker 1: That's my guest, though it's also one of the players
that I think invites people to use the word wiggle.
That might have been I think he was one of
the first players I ever I've heard wiggle. It's been
in the Vatnacular forever. But when he was with Utah
and I was in love with him, he was the
first player think I ever out loud spoke wiggle for
so I and they also have you're talking about steadiness
like for now they have Malcolm Brogden too, and that
could be something the clip factors into it. So was
Alex r the biggest draft bust of all time? Or what? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean he's got to be top three ever, Like,
if you're looking at him, probably Oloa Candy. I actually
think Kalm turned into like a decent post defender, So
I don't.
Speaker 1: Bettett carved out a nice career. We'll saw her even
last that long?
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not if you had to bet. Just based
on half the Wizard's fan base's reaction to it. Who
cares how we performed, Like, this is one thing we
talked a lot about on our show because I have
a center on the show who played in Summer League,
and he talked about how hard that is, you know,
to come in as a rookie and just be like, Okay,
no one's going to pass me in the ball. Cool.
When I get it, I'm gonna do something crazy, And honestly,
I think the like the leash was a little too
long and they just let him get away with like
doing some wild shit out there. Honestly, Like we don't
need Alex stars step back threes when he's already zero
for twelve to start a game like that should have
never been something that was allowed to happen. So it's
as much there to blame as he is, I think.
But if he gets stronger, it gets a little tougher.
And I think if they got a couple like Valentunas
is kind of you know, there to encourage and mentor
him or whatever, at least for part of the season,
I don't think they're going to let him get away
with like floating to the perimeter as much as he
did kind of from day one there. And when you
go back, like I went and watched that G League
night game the first one, or he was like really
good the beginning of last season, and he was not
afraid to mix it up and he was like going
to the rim at them and stuff. So like I
think when he gets like kind of catches back up
to the level of physicality and competition and things like that,
Like I'm not too worried about it long term personally,
just so what are going to simplify for him? At least?
Speaker 1: So you do think they're gonna sim because you and
Johnny had talked a lot about him playing within himself
or whatever you guys were saying. And my question was,
do you think that they're actually like sort of built
to do that for him, Like they have enough sort
of that secondary infrastructure to be, hey, you're going to
be more of this play finisher that isn't floating around
to the perimeter too much and so focus on connecting
on your screens, finishing more physically. You think they're I said,
even they're built to that, but you think that they
will try to wire him to actively do that rather
than give him too much of a rope.
Speaker 2: I sure, hope. So I don't know what they're doing
if they don't, Like if if he's got kind of
two paths to follow in practice, and he can watch
six foot ten Kyle Kuzma like ISO on the perimeter,
or he can watch Mark, you know, Marvin Bagley, like
try to post somebody up and just finish easy buckets
around the rim. Like I'm hoping he goes more in
the bagglely direction early and then you know, use the
downtime and the off season and things like that to
kind of work on the skill set and slowly kind
of add those other things on. I want him to
outrun the other centers. I want him to close up
a lot of holes for people defensively, catch a couple
of lobs here and there, if he can get a
couple put backs, like just if he If he does that,
like I think that's a really good rookie year just
considering where he is. And then you wait for the
other stuff to come around, like the short role passing
was really good. If they want to, you know, put
him on the elbow and let somebody kind of like
run off of him, Like I'm cool with something like that,
but he should not be like Iso creating at any
point in a game, you know, in the NBA, And
I definitely don't think they'll let him do any of that,
like the first half of the year at the very least.
Speaker 1: Do you anticipate but Keith trying to play him in
balance units together or was that strictly we want Joannis
to show Saar his shoulder workout.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna have to just where he's at,
like he was getting muscled by dudes, you know, three
inches smaller than him at this point. And I think
just from a I mean, unless they're just willing to
like be so bad in his minutes that like he
might be sort of one of the least productive players
in the NBA this year that's actually going to get
minutes because I think they will play him, but I
would hope that they kind of have enough support around
him or realize the kind of support he needs, whether
it's Rashaun Holmes or Baggley or one of these other guys.
Like I just don't think you can leave him out
there as like the lone, like real big, like if
it's him next to Kuzma and then whoever be Allah
at the three or whatever, like they're gonna get just
destroyed anywhere around the rim.
Speaker 1: I think, do you think that he can handle that
sort of off big role then though, because it's like
if you're playing with Jonas Mountain Tunis even has some stretch,
but like the things we're talking about Albastar doing is
avoiding being on the perimeter. It's like, I don't know
if Jonas Vntuta is a good enough floor spacer to
then open up the lane for him to do a
lot of the stuff, or even just at the elbows,
like open that space for him to occupy.
Speaker 2: The answer is no, But I don't think you have
a choice, Like I don't think there's enough there for
him to do those things. But I also don't think
you can leave him alone as the only big on
the court. And I think there's more of a chance
of him just feet set hitting like wide open corner
threes than there are him, you know, controlling the defensive
glass alone out there. So to me, it's like, let's
pick your poison here. I think he's better off like
just stand in a corner and if you're you know, open,
shoot it or or drive or slash a little bit
more than I think he could kind of handle even
backup centers, you know alone.
Speaker 1: I'm very interesting what he looks like because I liked
his defense more coming out of school than his offense.
I think most people were there too, and I'm curious, like,
not even just the roll they're going to kind of
throw him in, But when this team is clearly built
not to be so great defensively, do you worry about
him picking up bad habits or getting discouraged because he's
like he is probably gonna be shouldering just regardless of
who he's playing with, regardless of whether he's the only
big on the floor. Just so much responsibility. And I
think we've seen using Jalen, Duran and Detroit as an analog,
like what can kind of happen when there's like if
you don't have guys who can keep the ball in
front of them and you're young and you're still learning,
it could be disastrous. And so like I really do
value Alexar's valueability, and I think he can make a
bunch of kind of plays even when he's not the
primary rim protector. I'm just curious to see if we
can come away from this offseason see enough of the
flickers of that given like just the rest of the
Wizard's roster, and I honestly I almost would when you
just kind of look at how they're built at the moment,
Like I might just tie so many of his minutes
to the log Hulabalis and maybe even throwing Malcolm Broden,
like just as guys who might profile is immediately competent
to good defenders, because I think that makes wherever you're
gonna have him, but like on the lower lines, it
feels like it will make his job easier and we
might learn more about what he could do at his
absolute peak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I've worried
about every person the Wizards have drafted for the last
twenty five years picking up bad habits defensively because there's
just been a glut of bad, lazy defenders on most
of these rosters. So that's like my perpetual fear. But
I think that's the nice thing about the guys they're
drafting is, or at least the guys they're drafting high,
like cool Bali and Sar are rooted I think in
trying to play the right way and play and actually
care about defense, and I think his natural tools and
skills will just kind of like prevent him from ever
being like a total bum on the defensive side, Like
he's just too long and too mobile to not at
least be eventually a plus defender, even if there's a
couple of bad habits here there. And then you just
have to trust that you can get a good enough
coach to kind of, you know, smooth over the rough
edges over time. But I'm with you, like I would
I would be putting him with guys that aren't gonna
like totally leave him out to dry a lot and
have to like cover up too much for them, and
just same kind of thing. Keep the defensive role as
simple as it can early and then you know, hopefully
maybe you can kind of scale up over time as
you go to.
Speaker 1: I've waited long enough, let's do two hours on bla
cool BALI perfect. But actually, so what stood out impressed you?
Were surprised you most about what he did as a
rookie before his injury.
Speaker 2: I thought he was just like not scared to take
on like really tough defensive assignments. And there were a
couple of times it looked really bad in my opinion,
and that's maybe not a popular opinion with the rest
of the fan base here, but he got cooked a
few times, but didn't see him at all discouraged by that.
And like, the thing I liked most about Danny Avda
from day one was the defense. Like I was the
skeptic on whether the offense would come around enough to
kind of justify the role that you'd want from him
in terms of where the defense was so but I
like the defense from day one. It was just he
would get frustrated and you could see it and the
fouling and things like that, like he couldn't reconcile what
was and wasn't allowed or expected of him as like
a rookie defender guarding Kawhi Leonard or Lebron or whatever.
Cool bally like seemed kind of like up for the
challenge and like a little more like to take a
little more joy out of it. And I like the
Denny approach of like I'm taking this so seriously, but
also like he also gonna have to have fun with
it a little bit too, especially as a rookie, of
just like cool, look at this moment where I'm gonna
go guard Luca and he might still score twenty five.
But I thought at least he was better defensively right
away against the best players than I think you could
typically safely expect from a rookie player to be. And honestly,
I think he was one of their more impactful defensive
players overall. Like just using the Denny analog again, Like
Denny was a really good player, but I don't think
he made the other guys on the court around him
better or the overall team defense better. Whereas I saw
enough from Koolibali to think like he can be that
kind of guy, like the length, the recoverability, like all
those things guarding multiple positions. Like well, I think that's
something that like just excited me long term enough that
you know, even if he's gonna get beat a few
times on some dumb stuff like that's okay because it's
the sort of still theory of him and what he
could turn into.
Speaker 1: I'm also wondering if he gets I totally agree with that,
and he said I wonder if he also gets better
or a Lea's more intriguing because he looked I know
fans weren't happy with his role in with France or basically,
but he looks like he might have gotten stronger. We
are a muscle watch, it's Muscle Lot season, so maybe
I'm drinking too much cooly there, but he does look stronger,
and so that intrigues me even more because he held
up so well in a lot of assignments that you
were referencing, and it was not that he was weak,
but like this didn't look like someone who was built
to cover. So even at his not his peak. But
like even if he took the most optimistic outlook on
ballacool Balley the rookie defender, some of the guys he
was going up against just what they looked so much
bigger and stronger than he was. And I'm like, well,
if he like put on like real size, now, like
what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, Like there was a play last year where
like Lebron put like a shoulder into him and I
thought he was gonna like just float away because he
would just you know, like he just wasn't there yet,
whereas like in the Olympics, like he you know, he
was fine, he just but he just same kind of thing,
looked up for the challenge, seemed to fit into the
scheme pretty well there defensively, and it was a thing
that was interesting, Like all last year in the draft,
like everybody praised Steph Castle for Yukon because like, oh,
here's this five star recruit that comes in. It's just
willing to be like this like switchable, malleable team defender,
and like, you know, he was willing to kind of
take on that role and just be fine with that.
And now it's like, well, cool of BALI, like you know,
why is he okay just being like, you know, standing
in the corner and just being like a defender. It's
like we can't really pick and choose like when that's optimal.
He's a twenty raw twenty year old playing minutes on
an Olympic team, and he held up reasonably well. It's like, well,
I wish he would have had a few more like
ISO plays for himself. Like, I don't care about any
of that stuff personally, So I thought he was.
Speaker 1: Great looking at his role with the Wizards, though, do
you think they're going to attempt at all this year
to expand his offensive uses? Even if it's a matter
of Now, if it's me, you know, I'm just gonna
put the ball in his hands and be like, all right,
let's really see what this does. But even more is
I thought what he did well and I wouldn't call
it a strength of his game, but like there's a
lot of plays where it's like if he was a
screener or if he just caught the ball in the
center of the floor, I thought he had a really
good vision and like decision making in those scenarios, And
it's like I would like to see more of that
than I know they have so many bigs that maybe
they don't view him in that way. But it's like,
I'm at the point where the Wizards, I would call
it hashtag just try shit and so is there but
do they have the not they have the timeline, But dude,
when you're looking at the personnel, like, are they gonna
have the flexibility to experiment more with blah?
Speaker 2: I think you'll see more of it. I wonder if
that's partly what some of the willingness to trade Denny was,
is just free up minutes there to do those kinds
of things. And also I think the Denny move it
just you're only gonna be so good if you trade
away the guy was probably your best player and last
year at least arguably one of your two best players.
So but the other part of that, though, I think,
is free up a few more secondary creator touches for
cool Bali and see if he can do some of
that stuff and maybe you can run a little bit
more and let him be like more of a transition
finisher and just see like all the different stuff he
may or may not be good at, and then also
kind of helps you assess going into next season. The
other things you want him to work on, Like I
think the one thing about like the Olympics is all
the overall benefit is still a plus, but but he
didn't get as much dedicated just like be in a
gym with a trainer working on tightening his handle kind
of time so far, and he's got until now until
the start of the season do that. But like next
season I think is going to be maybe the biggest
season for him skill development wise in his whole career.
So it's just used this year to figure out like
where the holes still are, and then you can also
kind of measure progress from last year, Like I'm assuming
even in practices and things like that, he probably got
to do a few more things, so they'll know even
anecdotally like okay, he looks more comfortable handling or initiating
in the pick and roll or being the roller or
just you know, for the try shit out kind of approach,
like I think you can kind of try a few
more things out, and especially in the second half of
the year. I don't Between Brogden, Balanciunis, and Kuzma, I
would imagine two of the three of them are not
on the roster after the deadline so that's a lot
less touches and that's more they can go to him.
So I'm hopeful that they'll kind of scale up over
the year two.
Speaker 1: So maybe he'll get that like mid season Denny Bump
that was saw last year.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm expecting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Keyshawn George, what's the lowdown on him? And
he does? You mentioned this at the top about where
it seems like they're trying to get these guys with
a lot of defensive versatility and can do different things
on offense, and he fits that mold to a t.
I think people seem very split on like what he's
going to be like if you need him to do
anything on ball. I think I've seen some of the
keep calling it film, but of the possessions I've watched
of him, like I can there are possesions when I
can see it and there are possession where I can't.
But he seems quint essentially if you remove that from
the question, like, oh, this is something you usually plug
in and he'll play at both ends of the floor.
Speaker 2: I expect him maybe to start a little more on
like the Capital City Go Go this year. You know,
early in the year, and again maybe as they kind
of clean out like the glood of some of these
older guys, that's that's another person that they free up
to get a few more minutes for, you know, in
the latter part of the season. But yeah, he's six
' seven, he actually shoots it. He like was just
throwing the ball all over the place in Summer League
and had a lot of turnovers and things like that.
But I don't think turnovers in that setting are like
actually that bad of a thing, because it's like a
willingness to try stuff, and he wasn't like scared to
try to like split a double team of like really
quick handed small guards, which is just like bold and
show some confidence. And I think you just want like
a rookie at that stage that's not kind of timid.
Like there's an old like John Thompson line of like
I'd rather calm down a fool than raise a corpse,
And I think that applies for like rookies of just
like I kind of like a little irrational confidence because
we can scale that back and and kind of rein
you in a bit. So him trying to do stuff
is cool, and if he can do a little bit
of like playmaking and give you some versatility. Great, it's
the defense is where he's at. Can your strength and
conditioning and things like that help him be mobile enough
to actually guard more than like one position? I think
that's really going to be the question. As he bulks
up and fills out over time, does that kind of
like slowly move him to the fore position and like
stick him there? Can he be Kyle Andersony in that
sort of like I can guard threes and fours and
you know, maybe do a little bit of creation for
people and stuff like that. Like that, that's kind of
the player I'd be looking at with just like a
cleaner jump shot.
Speaker 1: How do you think this team views Corey Kissbert who
does some things very well? And I like there's no
other player really when you're looking at the way he's
able to get off his shots, like there's not really
anyone else on the roster like that. I think if
he wanted to, you could try and use Jordan pull
that way. But like he likes and needs the ball,
whereas Kisbert just does not. Where does he sort of factor?
And I asked that too because he is extension eligible,
So is that someone that you would think that this
front office might be interested in keeping if the price
is right, or would you more expect this to leak
into restricted free agency next year.
Speaker 2: I think the single most impressive thing this for an
office has done has been the contracts they've locked guys into.
Like I think that's why I felt like the return
for Denny was a little light personally, is because the
contract was so good and that should have had more
value to a better team longer term. And the Kusma
deal is great, like the sending contract, all this kind
of stuff, So I would expect them to try to
get like a team friendly extension done. And just if
I'm Corey and I'm looking at the market, you know,
from this summer it's like, you know, fringe starter on
a bad team kind of minutes, like how much money
am I really going to make in the open market?
So do I take a ten million dollars a year deal?
Or's like it's really movable for the Wizards, but it's
pretty solid money for him. And then you can kind
of go either way with it if he continues to
develop and he can actually guard somebody this year and beyond,
like okay, maybe he can be a part of the
long term future if he can't, is he just like
some shooting for a team like the Magic or somebody
that could desperately use like a little extra shooting so
that could maybe cover up more for his you know,
defensive liabilities and stuff like that. So I think the
nice thing with him is like, if you can get
him on a good deal, you can kind of go
either way with it. So I'd expect them to try,
but also not like break the bank to do it.
Speaker 1: What's interesting too, is so when you mentioned the Deniavia thing,
is we were talking about before we actually started recording,
how topsy turvy the market seems. But some of the
people when they baked in the Dniavia trade, it's like, well,
that contract's so good as you can't extend him off
of it, and so it's like, this just doesn't make
any sense to me. It's like, so you have players
who are going in the open market not getting paid,
but you have teams that might not be accepting as
much because they don't think they can extend him off
these numbers. So I don't know how much that factored in,
but that might be one way of looking at the
Avvia trade is, oh, if you're worried that he's not
going to extend off the current number because that that
deal is a steal I could even when he wasn't
when he signed it. So we're talking like pre Avdia
breakout at that point.
Speaker 2: Immediately it looked like a great deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe that factor into it. But I find
it interesting. It's like, oh, are you going to be
able to extend him off of it? But meanwhile, like
Gary Trent Junior just signed for the minimum, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. No, it's a great point and I kind
of hadn't thought about that that way of just like
that does cap your value to certain teams long term,
but he still got multiple years left on it. I
think that's like a good problem to have and try
to figure out later. And he's another guy that you
could flip at the end of that deal again to
a playoff team probably.
Speaker 1: So what is the goal with Jordan Poole at this point?
And just because I destroyed him on this podcast probably
a bunch of times, and some of it might have
been uncalled for, he did, I thought you a better job.
Like later in the season, we saw some more control
over the offense in the passing out of the pick
and rolls, But like, what is the like just looking
at what they got to take him on? What is
the like, what is the actual point of Jordan Poole, Like,
are they hoping to rehabilitate and flip him or is
this something they look at like, oh, like, maybe we
have this kind of microwives microwave score secondary playmaker that
we can keep long term on this roster.
Speaker 2: Yes, Uh, your guess is as good as mine and
maybe as good as theirs. At this point, I think
it was like them trying to do some stuff and
hope that they could immediately rehab him in a new setting,
and then maybe the Draymond punch really just threw him off,
you know that much. And I think there was like
clearly some limitations there that Golden State helped kind of
hide or protect a little bit better. And you mentioned
maybe you could use pool in like a Kis Pritty
kind of way. They tried that early in the year,
and he showed like very clearly he was not there
as an off ball player to kind of like play
that way. And I think even if they can rehab
his value as like this hyper high usage on ball guard,
there are very few teams in the league that are
going to want to let him do that, I think,
or be built to need him to do that, because
they're going to have better, more efficient guys in that
super high usage role. And what he basically proved last
year was like, if you need him to be kind
of this like secondary guy, he's not seemingly well equipped
to do that, And so I actually think even the
second half of last year may have hurt his value more.
Aren't the best way to rehabit is to actually show
that he can do some of those off ball things again,
because that makes him maybe more palatable to flip to
a playoff team. Like if I'm the Lakers or somebody,
am I gonna let him come in and have like
a thirty percent usage rate on a thief Lebron and
Anthony Davis. No, but if he could do like Austin
reevesy types things for me, like, you know, maybe that's
a little easier to take on like that huge number
with only a year a year and a half left
on the deal when he gets to that point, so
it's it's going to be interesting. I don't know. I
just think at this point you just kind of like
let it play out. And if you can maybe flip
him down the road, great, and if not, like it's
just somebody to kind of be your tank commander until
then and the.
Speaker 1: And that's a great point. And the other challenge here
now is that, Okay, we've had two consecutive seasons of
Jordan Poole not being good and the same way that
it feels like anecdotally and I mean probably there's evidence
for just too. Is like, once a player signs for
the minimum, it's very hard for him to be viewed
as more than a minimum player. Like brook Lope as
an exception, he goes from bi annual just making you know,
has a bit more last year, like using the Rockets
as a stalking horse. But with Jordan Polt's like he
could have a great season like through up to the
February trade deadline, and teams are just probably gonna be
reticent to pull the trigger on a deal for him
because of what just happened over the past couple of seasons,
which is like creates an interesting challenge. Fantastic point on
like if you can get him not just doing but
like making shots or leveraging like space, like getting defenses
to react to him off the ball, like that would
be the pathway to not even just rehabbing his value.
But oh, like there's a theory of him on this player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that's the thing for me, Like I
can I've seen Kyle Kuzma be this like third fourth
offensive piece on a good team. So if I'm a
team trading for somebody, I know I can let him
do that. And if I need more offense, he can
take on more offense. If I need him to be switchable,
he can take on you know, more defensive responsibilities or
more playmaking. Like there's versatility there. Pool is like this
very one dimensional. I need to be like broke Man's
James Harden and have everybody revolve around me to like
contribute in a at least semi positive way. And and
maybe that's a little harsh, Like I'm with you. I
thought he was so much better the second half of
the season, but he was also on my mount rushmore
of players I hated watching most in a wizard's uniform
in the first half of the season, So like the
bar was really low, and I just I still can't
really reconcile, like will we see more positive growth or
the second half of the season is just that kind
of like the peak of what he'll be, you know,
as a Wizard.
Speaker 1: And also even like the steadiest version of Jordan Poole's
still a little little anarctic Like a lot of the
plays like seem like they come off broken. Oh he
dribbled too much and like the defenses for some reason
overreacted to this guy being in circles and found somebody.
But if it works, it works. Uh, I can't bring myself.
I don't want to say care but to think too
much about like Kyle Kuzma and Malcolm Brogden and Jonas Palenciunas,
are they very much then you might have alluded to
this already earlier in the pod becaust like are they
very much like the transient placeholders that they seem like
on this team?
Speaker 2: I hope so, I think all Wizards fans kind of
hope so, Like I irrationally like Kyle Kuzma, I also
just don't need all three of them to be here
long term, Like if you can't get real value back
for Kuzma, like keep it keeping the length of the contract,
somebody's got to make twenty million on this team to
eat you know, the salary floor, and somebody's got to
take on a certain amount of on ball reps. Like
I actually think that actually helps shield your rookies a
little bit when they're not asked to do way too much,
way too early and break their confidence and things like that.
But like, as presumably some of these younger guys want
to scale up over time, can you have Pool and
Kuzma and a few of these other vets like eating
up so many in those minutes? I don't think so. Personally,
Like a Brogden is maybe easier because he's kind of
like less usage and a little more just malleable to
what you need him to be and can do that
better in leader eything Alan Tuonis maybe same kind of way,
but over time, Like I don't think he's in the
long term future. They've also got a glut of bigs
I think now at a certain point, like do we
really need a full year of valentiunists Rashaun Holmes and
Marvin Bagley? So is there anyone there that you could
potentially flip for anything, Like I don't think anyone's wanting
to trade for Rashaun Holmes at thirteen million a year
or whatever the case. May be unless it's part of
a bigger trade. So like Bagley is the one I
would look at. It's like maybe he's still young enough
that if you can keep him healthy and productive for
a full year, like maybe another team could talk themselves
into it. But like I just you got to move
somebody for something, Like the cupboard was so bare from
an asset perspective, you know when they took over this
rebuild that just like they've kind of like struck out
a couple of times on flipping some of these vets
or assets. Like the tighest Jones thing is tough. Like
if you had even two second round picks, you know,
on the table at the deadline, and you chose to
keep him and you don't get anything for him, Like
that's kind of rough. So you've got to turn some
of these dudes into something at some point, Like you
can't afford to let them all leave here and not
get anything out of it either.
Speaker 1: I wonder if the this stuff played out with Tis
Jones will form how they handle Malcolm Rogson a little bit.
Whi's just a similar situation in the sense it's it's
an expiring contract of a useful player. But if you're
holding out for a first I don't know if you
get that for him, Yeah.
Speaker 2: If you get two like real second round picks, like
I would just go help him move tomorrow. I mean,
like it's just whatever you can do to get some
value and some kind of tangible asset for him. If
it's like top fifty protected, like okay, and the other
team can kind of kick rocks with that. But like
if it's real stuff that you could turn into a
player or used to you know, trade up in a
draft and get a real player, like that's actual value
to me. But if yeah, you're holding out for a
first round pick for him, I think just given what
we've seen and he makes enough money that unless the
team is really desperate for exactly that player, there's the
injury history there, like all this other kind of stuff,
like he's he's a risk, and how much are you
really going to give up to take a thirty year
old guy that's got foot problems? You know, I think
it's questionable.
Speaker 1: Kuzma's fascinating in the sense that he's on a deal
that's just in declines. It's a good contract if you're
like from a team perspective, and he's a very useful player.
But I think if you rewind back to his time
with the Lakers, the concern was always like what is
he gonna look like on defense? Not how does he
fit into like a larger offensive ecosystem. And I Almos
kind of feel like that's flip flopped in Washington, where
if you're a good team trying to trade for him,
and I wonder if that's because like I'm at the
point where it's if you're gonna get the equivalent of
like two first round picks for him, it's not even
just do it. It's like if that offer was on
the table, would they've already done it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you. I think I didn't buy the
whole Like we didn't trade him too Dallas because he
didn't want to go and we're such nice guys kind
of thing. Like I think if they'd really gotten like
a real to first round pick offer, like they would
just wished him well and just said this is a
good enough spot and we're happy to send you there,
and probably wouldn't have been in a hurry to trade
Gafford if they didn't have to get something back. So
I think you're right to me if I were another GM,
I wouldn't worry about that just because I know there's
some team out there that will would need him to
come in and be some instant offense off the bench
or whatever the case may be, or like run bench units.
Not that he needs to come off the bench, but
you know what I mean, like the secondary extra scorer
kind of guy. And in the playoffs, he's still a
guy that can get his own shot and do some
of these other things where like I was looking at
that Dallas team, like you didn't really want Derek Jones
Junior to ever put the ball on the floor. He
didn't really want PJ. Washington to put the ball on
the floor. Like they played kind of you know, above
their pay grade overall. But could they have used one
third guy that could actually create for himself when like.
Speaker 1: Really lock in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like to me, I think that would have
been a valuable pick up for him if they could
have made it work and for them, like a late
first round pick, if that's what it took to get
it done. You know, I I would do that if
I were a team. So it's just going to really
depend on who the team is and what the need
is at the deadline. If I know you're Boston or something,
you've got to do something to make a move because
you've been kind of stagnant and fizzled out in the
first round of paoffs last two years, Like could you
get too late first from Milwaukee or whoever the case,
you know, like that kind of team. You know, I
don't know who has that to give up, but I'm
okay with them holding out because there's no like ticking
clock on him. The contract is gonna look better over time.
Speaker 1: Here it's still funny because he doesn't make as much
sense the anymore. But Dallas would still be a good
fit because I guess they have clay now and Nagy work,
but they're just like so fucking huge, like they're perimeter
players with the exception of Carrier are just big and so.
But yeah, I actually don't think when you look at
Kusmas specifically, he doesn't seem to be like a malecontent
in Washington. So that's great. And as you said, you
need to give someone the money. He does kind of
feel a need. The only way that I would look
at it as oh, he needs to go because they're
going to be bad enough too, is is this infringing
in any way upon the development of all these other
players who are more important to a longer term picture.
And I don't think, to be clear, I don't think
it's like his personality or something that he would do
deliberately or go rogue on the court that does that,
But his play style on offense within this group might
inherently kind of cap how much you know, Yeah, okay,
we like you could probably find a way to make
bub Carrington still get plenty of floor general reps. But
as long as Kyle Kusma's here, Like, is it going
to be a lot more difficult to give bilaal Coolbali
more offensive responsibility, even get Keishan George to a point
where it's we want to have him get regular minutes
with the big club.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of the tough part, I think,
because I think he's actually malleable enough that the answerst know,
he probably doesn't hold them back because like that first
year when he came in, he was content to be
like kind of more of a creator and just take
shots when he was with like, you know, the other
bench guys and stuff like that. But he was willing
to defer in the first quarters to to Porzingis and
defer in the fourth quarter to the tabil and like
that wasn't a problem. So I think you can can
play him some with the three, play him some at
the four. Could you do a little small ball five?
Like he can do other things enough that I don't
think he inhibits these other guys. It's to me, it's
really cool that does that, right, Like he needs the
ball so much and he's just like exclusively a one
you know, two lead offensivecilitator initiator type, and like does
that hold above back longer term? Like to me, it's
easier to play bub next to Malcolm Brogden and let
them kind of like, yeah, yeah, my turn, his turn.
Who runs the show. So but you can't trade pool,
Like he's untradeable at this point, so you're kind of
stuck with him. So if somebody has to go, it's
probably Kuzma. But I don't think in a vacuum he'd
kind of be a problem in that sense.
Speaker 1: No, And maybe I'm being too narrow minded about it.
I guess I was doing it more as like there's
a difference of being deferential to Bradley be On, christ
Carrington and Alex are type deal.
Speaker 2: I think he seems to like get the assignment enough
of like he's trying to do all like the off
court veteran you know, veteran leadership stuff like you heard
Dennys all the time, Like he's the guy that would
play one on one with me after practice every day
and help me grow my game. Like I think there's
enough like ancillary benefit to having him on the roster
that if you told him, like, hey, we need you
to be more deferential and create for some of these guys.
It seems like he's a willing enough dude to want
to do that. But you know, maybe not.
Speaker 1: Uh. I'm realizing just now that I didn't fill out
a top ten outline, and the thing I sent you
for this team it was last year, is what does
the top ten rotation do you look like at at
full strength for this roster?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a couple of no brainers here right,
Like Pool is going to play a ton of minutes,
Kuzma's going to play a ton of minutes again, at
least for the first half of the year. This is
how I'm projecting it out. And I think Valanciunas is
going to get plenty of minutes, although you don't need
to play him a ton a ton. I think kool
Bali's going to get a good amount of minutes. I
think Kispert's going to get a good amount of minutes.
I think Brogden gets a good amount of minute. So
you're at six right now. That's when it starts to
be like, all right, we'll kind of see what they're,
you know, willing to do here. Like I said, I
think Jared Butler gets a decent amount of minutes, especially early,
so that's probably seven, and then it's probably one of
Homes or Bagley play some minutes as another big so
that probably puts you at eight. I think Sar is
definitely going to get minutes. That's nine, and then I
think bub has to get a certain amount of minutes,
so that's probably your ten. The Wizards also seem like
very willing to like play some randos, So could there
be a long stretch where Eugenamrui is getting minutes or
Justin Champenne is getting minutes Like that wouldn't really surprise
me that much either, So I think that that would
be like the ten I would go with, and then
somebody's out with injury one of those other guys kinds
of fills in here and there.
Speaker 1: This will if this is terrible podcasting, I'm appropriate like
that's this is one of the teams where that's question
just feels like it holds no water because not just
there will be turnover, but like a ten man rotation
feels thin based off like runt their team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rotate through everybody and let them all get minutes.
Like I'd like to see Bagley play, like I said,
just to see if he has any you know, flippability
in him. But you know, if he can't stay healthy,
he can't stay healthy. So he was like kind of
good here for the thirty games or whatever he played.
It's just it's only like thirty games or whatever, so
that that's really the challenge with him too.
Speaker 1: You can approach this question however you want, whether you
think that they should be wanting to lose said crunch
time game or win said crunch time game. What is
that clutch most used clutch lineup you're gonna go to.
Speaker 2: Uh, what do I think they'll go with? Or what
would I go with?
Speaker 1: You can give me both, I mean, like you could
go that. You can also do the tank commander rout
where it's like, well, I'm gonna put players on the
court that I know will lose, said said close game.
Speaker 2: I think if they're gonna like try to win a
game at the end, it's probably Valentiunis, Kuzma, Kula Bali
some of the time. Maybe I think kiss Bert's out
there for the shooting because they'll both trust him to
do like good offensive things, and Pool will definitely be
out there. So like situationally, it's probably you need more
ball handling, maybe you go Broggden, you need more wing,
need defenderiness, you go kol A Bali. But those are
probably the six guys I think get the most consideration.
Speaker 1: You know, with the game online, is there a weird,
random offbeat lineup you're hoping that they'll roll out this season.
Speaker 2: I'd love to see a little Sar Kuzma, Kola Bali,
kiss Bert, Pool or maybe bub kind of stuff and
just get a little weird with it and try to
run on people and play fast. But it would also
just be like a terrible defensive rebounding unit too, so
it's a little hard to pull off.
Speaker 1: I want to see something that's no bigs and no
like quote unquote guards give me, give me bub guys, Yeah,
give me bub balal Kuzma, Kuzma kiss Bert and look,
I guess look at it has to be Justin Champagne.
I think I think that's the Okay, maybe George there is.
Speaker 2: I'd be all in on that the second half of
the year. They could just play them thirty five minutes
a game like that, I'd be fine.
Speaker 1: I'd watch. So if they're looking to get people to
tune in, I think that's the way to get people
to tune in. Uh So, does this team have any
potential strengths or just something What's something about them that's
flying under the radar that maybe people aren't talking about.
Speaker 2: Enough, Like young legs is always annoying for other teams
to play, and I think they'll play enough young guys that,
like in March, they're gonna be kind of annoying to
play against it. And I think Pool will be better
this year, and he's got enough uh you know, heat
checkedness to him that they could maybe you know, make
this tougher on a couple of playoff teams or people
worried about like their playoff seating and stuff like that.
So I think they could maybe be like kind of
fun spoilery guys the second half of the year, although
keep in mind, I don't think they'll want to win
too many games. I just I think the first like
two thirds of the year they're going to really struggle
to win like seven or eight games. So if they
win ten, you know, down the stretch of the year, like,
it's probably not the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 1: I really hope. Though you mentioned the young legs thing.
I think more teams might take this seriously in general
if they pick up what happened last year. These are
just to be an objectively funny team to run off
a bunch of wins in like the NBA Cup games. Yeah,
where's just like they cut other Oh it's the Wizards,
like we don't, we don't this game matters tecondly, we
don't need to get up for them. And then it's just,
oh no, like they played all the vets and they
just like they tried really hard and they want and
oh my god, they're.
Speaker 2: One and forty on us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like exactly, that's what and by the way, that's
what I want. I mentioned this to Jackson when we
were doing the Pistons Look Ahead That's what I really
want to happen with the NBA couple. Like the Pacers
were nice, but we anyone who follows the NBA, even
if you don't watch them, knew the Pacers were good
and up and coming. I want just this random ass
team like Charlotte to just run off or Detroit or
Washington like Portland this year, just get super frisky in
the NBA Cup games. I think that would be great.
Speaker 2: Portland's like, weirdly the one I could see do it,
Like they're the pieces don't really fit, but there's enough
like decent pieces there that could they get hot and
rattle off a couple wins in a row like that,
Like I coul kind of see that.
Speaker 1: They have like a lot of good individual defenders now,
like clinging Avdia, Jeremy Grant, Mattista cybele is is there,
Tomani Kamara was fantastical. So that would be a team
where it's they might win every game. Is in the
nineties at that point, but it could work. So uh,
I just I'm rooting for that. I root for chaos,
but I just want a random team to just like
at least advance, like really deep into the the NBA.
Speaker 2: Cup tournament, it'd get weird with it. I'm all for that.
Speaker 1: So as we're recording this, which is in the middle
of August, they're over under. I used FanDuel for this
twenty one and a half. Would you take the over
under on that? And how many wins do you actually
see them ending up with.
Speaker 2: I'm in like the sixteen seventeen kind of territory. I
think here and and I think on paper they probably
are like a twenty two win team. I just don't
think that this runt office will like let that happen.
And that's kind of the like the main thing I'm
banking on with them. It's just like, please, for the
love of God, don't let that happen. So I would
like hammer the under and feel like it like incredibly
safe about it. There's just no world to me where
this like a twenty five win team. And there was
like a decent amount of like Wizard's Twitter as they
signed you know, Valentunas, that was like, oh are we
too good now? It's like come on, guys, like you
traded away Abdia, like he's probably your best player, and
like Jones was a better player than I think we
were willing to give him credit for he just kind
of didn't fit next to Pool, but like they objectively
got worse because now more minutes are going to go
to rookies and historically that doesn't really like end well
for teams. So there's no way that they hit the over.
Speaker 1: To me, I agree with everything you said, And the
biggest thing is the front office just isn't gonna let
that happen. And the only way I could kind of
see them not the only way, but if they hit
the over, it almost feels like, well, they didn't give
the young kids enough run for the first half of
the season and they won too many games because Pool
was good, Kuzma was good, Jonas Valanciunas was good, Malcolm
Brogden was good. And that's like, that's not a situation
you want to be in because it's okay, it might
be fun to win some games, but you want to
develop your youth. It's not just oh, it's Jebruary. We
could play the kids like it's just.
Speaker 2: The only way that'd be like okay, though, is if
that happened and those guys played well enough that maybe
you then flipped them for actual more assets, you know,
like that's the only silver lining there, and then you
could just go so young the second half of the year,
maybe you kind of make up for it.
Speaker 1: But if Ted leonsis lets you, is he gonna demand
that they go for a play in birth if they're
like they're like eight games under five hundred in January, Like, no,
we gotta keep pushing, like we're right outside the play
in and East is gonna make the play in by mistake. Yeah,
when you look at the teams that are like competing
for those spots, like once you get to eight or nine,
it's like, do these teams really even want to be here.
Speaker 2: If they get so tempted by a play and run
that Ted like punts on the rebuild to do that.
This will be the last preseason podcast we can do
together because I will just not be on this earth anymore.
I think it's kind of where I'll be at, Like I'll.
Speaker 1: Just honestly think like Winger and Dawkins would just resign
to I think there I hope.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you got to have enough credibility to push
back there and be like this is a bad idea.
Speaker 1: Uh man, is there any one anything about this team?
We didn't talk about that you think needs to be
discussed before I let you skidatl.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think it's just this will be
like a really interesting kind of thought experiment here on
like how much Summer League matters, Like if Alexar comes
in and it's just like solid ten and five from
day one and just does easy, simple stuff and plays
good defense, Like I just never want to hear people
talk about Summer League ever again, and what the you
know that actually means for people, and like vice versa,
Like bub I thought was like pretty darn good in
Summer League. If he struggles this year, like I don't
want to hear the opposite of that either. It's just
sort of like their rookies and you're gonna let them
play through mistakes, and that's what this year should be about.
And I don't know, I really truly believe, like cool
Bonbie's going to be a lot better this year. I
know you and Grant are both big on him too,
and we're going to defend our guy here and protect
our guy at all costs. So I think he's gonna
take a big jump, and I think it'll be fun
to watch for you know, yeah he is, that won't
watch the NBA and watch the Wizards.
Speaker 1: Otherwise, if if he has anything less than a thirty
eight percent usage, the Wizards have failed this year. I've decided, like,
let's get it up up in the forties.
Speaker 2: Fold the team at that point.
Speaker 1: Uh, Matt, this was great as always. Thank you for
giving me so much of your time, and even more,
thank you for giving me so much of your although
just made me think of something I can't remember who
I was listening to on the Star Front where they said, like,
generally speaking, when it comes to big men in summer league,
their performances cannot really predict what's going to happen in
the NBA. So that's probably a good sign. I don't
want to. I think I know who it is, but
I don't want to guess on air attribute to them.
And then and also what if I'm just lying for
some reason, But that would be a vote of just
like all right, you could go ahead and throw out
summer league because it's not just I tend not to
read too much into the negatives because I want to
give young players that chance. But if there's like actual
data that shows big men, it's just harder to read
into what you see then that's even better. And it's look,
you mentioned it already his role what he was doing
in Summer League. If he's doing it with the Wizards,
I would honestly argue they're not doing something wrong, but
he's like hijacking it and deciding to do it himself at.
Speaker 2: That point, right, Yeah, they've given him too much freedom
to do those kinds of things, and hey, that's okay.
You're definitely getting Cooper flying at that point, so it's
a win win, Matt.
Speaker 1: I'll go back to my outro. This was great. Thank
you for so much of your time and your insight.
Are you just able to tell our fantastic listeners where
they can find you and all the great content that
you put out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me and enjoying
in the discord so far so plugged everybody else, go
to Legend.
Speaker 1: It's in the intro to your discord. Legend.
Speaker 2: That's that's terrifying for anybody involved there, but I appreciate that. Yeah,
believe in Wizards. Check us out. Me and former Wizard
Center Ja Hotti White. I'm actually gonna record here later today,
not the day you're listening to it, but later the
day we're recording this, so get to talk about the
Wizards for two and a half consecutive hours. So that's
as masochistic as it gets. But I'll try to talk
about other stuff and get to Hotty's perspective on just
like what it's like from a player's vantage point when
certain things happen in the league. So even if you
don't care about the Wizards, try to tease those kind
of things out from him and then just you know,
he's pretty candid and like a great dude, so I
don't give us a try.
Speaker 1: And also I love the clips. Won't confess to the
Saving podcast. We do a great job with the DMV.
Who just knows interview clips that I see posted and
watch less too, so go check that out as well. Matt,
thank you for so much of your time as always.
As you know by now, I will be pestering you
again in the future though, so I will talk to
you too,