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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seriously Strange Conference, a paranormal peep show

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special Winchester University was the heading for the Association of

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the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena or ASAPP for sure.

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All the attendees made their way into the large lecture

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theater where the Seriously Strange Conference took place. As soon

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as I arrived, I was welcomed by the committee and

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signed in and was issued a badge, and then I

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took my place in la foyer and waited.

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Speaker 2: For the conference to start.

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Speaker 1: And of course there was one person already waiting there

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to meet me.

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Speaker 3: Hello everyone, I'm Ben Emlyn Jones and I'm here at

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the ass APP Seriously Strange Conference, I mean with Neil,

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my friend Neil.

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Speaker 4: So it's really good to be here. I love these conferences.

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Speaker 1: They had a variety of academic speakers and lay researchers

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with a blend of accessible and more academic talks. Speakers

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had the opportunity to present their talks in front of

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a large screen. Ben and I secured our seats right

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at the back to get a great view of everything

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before us. And the first speaker of the day was

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Neil Nixon with Today Winchester tomorrow the.

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Speaker 2: Cosmos, thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: So, yes, let's celebrate what we've all got in Okay,

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we's not with it. There's anybody who read crap terms

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by the eye of people, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 6: You need that up right.

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Speaker 5: Nineteen ninety nine fifty worst places that live in the

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UK and Winchester number five. We were in Bath last year,

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which doesn't get a mention in this particular book, but

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it was.

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Speaker 6: Quite last night.

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Speaker 5: I tell that I was continuing prosperrated to the presence

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of one of the worst postures still, but it's un

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down to beauty is scared by the broken beer bottle violence.

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Its Friday night. So when we do we go out

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on Friday night in Winchester, do we goes work? I

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think things have improved since they wrote that book. But anyway,

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so we're in Winchester're welcome to Winchester.

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Speaker 6: Today, We're interested tomorrow the cost us?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, basically, so I think I'm not the only person

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looking at the kind of bigger picture in terms of

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crudely hang half an out here. The argument would be,

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after a lifetime I've been obsessed with this kind of stuff,

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I'm less impressed by people trying to solve a particular case,

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going and digging deep into one particular onesing or one

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particular uf overt much more convinced that if we're looking

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at genuine phenomena i e.

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Speaker 6: Things that are.

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Speaker 5: Worth of investigation that we currently don't begin to understand,

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we're probably looking at a bigger picture somewhere along the line.

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Speaker 6: So we'll talk a little bit about that. I'll just

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feel the need to apologize on him.

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Speaker 5: At paranormal conference and I mentioned football, But yeah, fair

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play to the journeys that were in h I've had

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an intelligiment football conversation already this weekend.

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Speaker 6: Let me tell you a story about football.

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Speaker 5: You're probably familiar with the two big one here, like

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Paul Gastoin and Glenn Model. At the moment this pictures

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taken and Gaza is towards the end of his England career,

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which lasted from nineteen eighty eight to two nineteen eighty

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eight to nineteen ninety eight, he was in the World

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Cup squad trying to qualify and England did qualify for

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the ninety eight finals, at which point Glenn moddel held

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a train income and ended the train income by picking

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his squad and Gaza was not picked. And the official story,

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if you read it, is that Gaza's England career ended

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at that point because he retaliated on the manager ran

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trash in his hotel room. Unofficially, there's another story that

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does the round, which is quite relevant to the talk

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cup come in today, and it's this Paul Gastorn was

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a practical joker, a non practical joke because it was

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always pulling stunts on people, and he pulled one in

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the training camp and he went to the thing is

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that they had a moment in the training camp where

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the slug were gathering around and discussing the drill and

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various pieces that were doing, and Ghaza went up to

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Glenn Hoddle and said, I've just heard something about your boss.

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Is it true you found God? And Glenn Hoddell said, well, yeah,

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it is true. And more Gas going to the punchline

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as well. That must have been one element passport. Yeah,

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all right, it's a joke I quite like because it's

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it's relevant to what I'm talking about today.

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Speaker 6: And as much as there's a big picture.

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Speaker 5: There's a means bob which we're trying to reach it,

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which sometimes seems quite almost tenuous.

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Speaker 6: So passing of football to gone, it's kind of like

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a meta book of some of the things I'm going

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to be talking about. Let's get the serious stuff.

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Speaker 5: I cann't deny, you know, all the years that I've

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spent researching.

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Speaker 6: All these kind of things. The stuff that seems to resonate.

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Speaker 5: With me more these days is to do with the

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people who came up with big overarching views of certain

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things and trying to sort of ship away with them.

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And I'm guessing that you know, I'm talking to the converts,

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and I know I speaking yesterday to somebody about trying

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to join Alie Stepvardi's society, which I've never done, but

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I want out the individual but we sort in here

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was telling me that they tried to do that.

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Speaker 6: And there are some of these ideas.

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Speaker 5: Just whilst they're quite bold now sort of resonate with

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me quite well. So if if you're unfamiliar with Rudolph Otto,

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who's the guy on the left.

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Speaker 6: He wrote a few major theological tones about a century ago,

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but the idea of the holy is the one that

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still keeps selling, such as any of themselves these days.

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And he had a central planning of this idea, which

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is that he.

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Speaker 5: Talks about a concept called numinosity, which is the new

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minis is the stuff that's kind of between what we

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can observe and what we can pick a way out

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and what we can prove and the kind of a

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mopus thing that will never reach is that bit in

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the middle.

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Speaker 6: And he felt very.

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Speaker 5: Much as a theologian that he was dealing with something

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that was bigger than we could understand, but that was

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just in sight, almost just over the horizon.

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Speaker 6: You could perceive it, but you couldn't quite get to it.

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And our recently read Alista Hardy's book.

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Speaker 5: In fact, if anybody in here gets the Christian and

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parapsychologist that Matt Arnold produces, I've got an article coming

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and well, I've got a writer. First, Yeah, I think

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I could cope that. But I've got an article coming

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up in there looking at fifty years of the book

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written by Sir Alison Hardy, The Biology of God.

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Speaker 6: And it's an interesting rate.

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Speaker 5: I mean, he's a biologist and a Christian and he

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starts from the premise that there must be some biological existence.

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Speaker 6: This is nineteen seventy five, so what can you prove

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and not what can you not?

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Speaker 5: But the last one, I mean, I'm assuming one or

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two of you, what if this this is a meme I.

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Speaker 6: Picked up the other day. I mean, clearly, when you're

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playing with.

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Speaker 5: This kind of stuff, the danger of confirmation bias is massive.

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So you have things resonate that that doesn't necessarily mean

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you right. I found that quite funny because it's a

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picture of a woman where she's in Jesus. But as

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some of you are probably spotted that stage of Gilno,

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the league, the gus are open, big fight.

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Speaker 6: Who was about the eight years?

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Speaker 5: Which is just if you get an example of the

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cautionary detail, you can even find that in these lyrics.

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I mean, obviously there's you know, the danger is that

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you just things resonate, but you just go.

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Speaker 6: Off in the wrong direction and you get her on

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confirmation bias to it.

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Speaker 5: So let's talk about two of my favorite paranormal stories.

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Speaker 7: Again.

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Speaker 5: I apologies if you're unfamiliar with this, and so if

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you are familiar with it, I've reverred to on the

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left on the twelfth of August nineteen eighty three. It

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was fished by a canal back in August sharp in

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the early hours of the.

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Speaker 6: Morning, as you do.

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Speaker 5: A UFO lands, he sees two beings that come out

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through some bushes and becking in towards them. He goes

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through the bushes. The beings aren't inside that the UFO

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is there. He goes aboard the UFO. He finds himself

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in a room, a futuristic room, but there's nobody around,

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no being of any point around. Then he hears a voice,

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but there's no where he's coming from, and he asked

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him how old he is. He points out that he's

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about to turn seventy eight, and I'm sorry to break

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this year.

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Speaker 6: But the voice says, you're too all then in the

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film for our purposes, all right, aliens are ages. I

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do quite a lot of time. I'm bookable for talks,

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you know, I'm speaking it and you get.

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Speaker 5: Booked in Route one jobs all at the University of

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the Third Asian probust grooms active retirees on the midweek

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after the name. That story goes down quite well with

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some of them, appallingly with others, you know, like the

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oldest person through the rooms nineteen.

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Speaker 6: You just told them the aliens are interested in them,

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you know, And I've got to apologize to.

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Speaker 8: She got around somewhere.

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Speaker 5: They got from groom speeder. Hey, yeah, yeah, sorry, I know,

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I know you're talking about Elvies. I'll keep it down

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to one Elmies story this morning. But this in the

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webinar a few weeks ago, true story A girl with

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Down syndrome.

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Speaker 6: A young woman with Down syndrome is dying. She's a

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heart condition.

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Speaker 5: She was never going to live very long compared hers

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with big fans of Alvis.

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Speaker 6: She's attending an Elvis gig. It's in Raymond.

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Speaker 5: Movies Last Day, his book about Elvis and Elvis Afterlife.

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She says goodbye to her down, goodbye to her mother,

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and then as she's dying in front of her basically

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lapses were consciousness, she says, Elvis is here, specifically, the

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incomes Alvis. A moment's so meaningful that it actually drove

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her dad back to renewing his religious mouth.

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Speaker 6: But it's a true story. I mean, it's the eye

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weaknesses say it's true. Now, I don't know the truth,

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literal truth of that. You can't go and investigate it

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and prove it one way or the other.

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Speaker 5: Point I'm making is that there's surreal stories in many ways,

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they don't seem to have a resident, absolute literal truth,

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just free Internet, and it's.

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Speaker 6: Something followed provably.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, and just do yourself as David.

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Speaker 6: If you've heard that story and you believe you don't.

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Speaker 5: Check out the Skeptoid episode which munishes it with names

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in about fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: Well, so.

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Speaker 5: We are victims of our own ability to believe, our

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own willingness. And basically, and in a previous life, I

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taught professional rights into university students. You taught mythic structure.

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There's a book called a Here over a thousand Paces

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by a guy called Joseph Campbell. He tells you mythic

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structure the storytellers. There's a simpler version called The Writer's

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Journey by Christopher Bogo, which is the same thing. We

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are hardwired, literally hardwired to believe. That's a quote from

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my book on mystery, and she's just based on you know,

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like reading a.

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Speaker 4: Lot of this stuff.

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Speaker 5: We insircret mysteries in line with our current beliefs. It's

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easier in your brain. It is easier to believe something.

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They're not to believe something. We're social line or to

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be means to hear stories, don't trust each other.

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Speaker 6: That's what how theolytic brains told us to do.

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Speaker 4: So who microphonees weaving the way.

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Speaker 6: And just a couple of reality checks on this.

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Speaker 5: If you're ever familiar with Michael Landol, she wrote a

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book about the history of human evolution. But it's an

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interesting book because she takes mythic structure for storytellers and

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basically says, well, we've used the Joseph Campbell mythic structures

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to understand how we evolve, which means that at times

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we're telling each other these stories.

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Speaker 6: And he's so easy to believe we're actually going against

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the science.

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Speaker 5: Similarly, and at this point, I don't want to get

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into an argument.

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Speaker 4: This is ours.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to get to an argument. I don't

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get into an argument about anything.

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Speaker 5: But Rizzar asland it's somewhat controversial point, but he basically

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he looks at religion in a kind of social science

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flight and effectively says, it's a my product of our societies.

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Speaker 6: We are hard wired. We're literally hardwired to believe.

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Speaker 5: So clearly that's one of the things that drivers are

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believe in stuff. But more recently I've been quite impressed

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with people like Diane Pasulca. Again, if you're unfamiliar with

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her work, very long story short. She backro his theology.

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She was astonished to discover as a practicing Christian and

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professor of religious studies in the United States. But as

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many people believe that aliens have landed, is believed in God,

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and her first book, American Cosmic, sets out to answer

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the question why do people believe that?

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Speaker 6: Not why did the aliens learn? It's led her into

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some very strange areas which are worth looking at.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's a kind of reality check her and

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Philip GoF who is the belieing advocate of pan psychism.

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Why the notion that the entire universe is conscious? Whenever

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had these conversations with my friends. Is like they pick

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up a student and say is that conscious?

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Speaker 6: And I'm saying, well, then you don't.

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Speaker 5: The beginning, it's this thing here, Diana Sulke was talking

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to people who worked for NASA and Abby lower them

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who's again another research who's involved in this. They've had

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the same conversations. Latterly, people like NASSA have been going

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to the academics and the community leaders who work with

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the first Nations people in the.

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Speaker 6: United States, and something similar is going on in.

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Speaker 5: Australia where a guy called Tyson Young comporter who's one

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of the sort of leading out the First Nations people, and.

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Speaker 6: That's a little bit of a reality check.

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Speaker 5: They were trying to figure out how to understand alien

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languages and ask this important question and got quite snotty

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replies along the lines of, well, don't you get it.

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Speaker 6: You shouldn't be looking at First Nations people.

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Speaker 5: As if it's a museum piece, as if we've got

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quae beliefs that we've grown out of.

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Speaker 6: Do you not get things? Actually? And it's here really

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the crucial bit.

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Speaker 5: If there's any bigger phenomena, it's something that interacts with us. Yeah,

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part of the database that processes the information is our

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own consciousness. And it's interesting because Dan the Silk is

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bored into this. I'm just starting to ask questions about

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aliens and it's led us to some interesting, unprovable, but

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very interesting perspectives. And I mean, obviously she's got the

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academic problem of whatever she does.

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Speaker 6: Has to be starting the peer of years.

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Speaker 8: If she can't put them up with.

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Speaker 6: Ideas and throw them out there right, So of course

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she'll retail.

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Speaker 5: Again on this absolutely sitting on the fence the whole way.

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Anybody familiar with this gray violent.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: I think skeptics said.

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Speaker 6: Maybe good, but it's ninety six. Yeah, Raymond Moody is

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still like as well, you know this, Yeah, you know

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the guy that wrote the book about Alberts.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't think you know this.

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Speaker 5: There's a running joke online Raymond Moody is the world's

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leading expert on life after death.

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Speaker 6: He's unwilling and he thinks it's brilliant.

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Speaker 5: Will be passed up on the other side, but his

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unwillingness to die, he's always proven his argument.

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Speaker 6: Now I've seen him compared to cardinals of the Roman

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Catholic Church.

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Speaker 9: You know, I think they can't wait for Evan, but

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Mike God like the threat, you know. Yeah, So anyway,

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cautionary now, if you like on watch Wood, whenever, whenever.

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Speaker 5: I'm waiting into any more of this conversations, worried about it.

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The slot messages with people. Don't try and explain something

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to get it again. I mean, in fact, I've to

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be sure that you're trying to explain something.

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Speaker 4: That needs explain.

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Speaker 6: Okay, almost there you can tell. Not long ago I

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wasn't put this thing together. When I put this slide up,

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I thought it would be funny to suggest there might

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be a fighter, as.

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Speaker 5: I'm not seriously suggesting we train they on stage later

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on today they can explain themselves.

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Speaker 6: But if you like this, see someone where I'm coming to.

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Speaker 5: I'm grateful to be on the bill today with both

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sign me on books and conferences, particularly this kind of stuff,

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because I just much prefer any around with people and laughing.

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I will go and put a load of books out

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in the first copye bro if anybody wants one, and

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other than that, what.

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Speaker 6: Be around the weekend?

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Speaker 5: Okay, there is all the stan in questions a couple

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of minutes, the academic minded people who could have put

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their arguments to peer review, who are arguing it and

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needs to have arguments.

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Speaker 2: That go that far.

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Speaker 5: If you wanted a one stop shop, Philip GoF, who

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works at the University of Durham, wrote a book called.

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Speaker 6: Wine if you want a simpler one stop shop.

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Speaker 5: He was on in Our Time with Melvin's Brag earlier

336
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this year, and you can download the episode of the Pansychism.

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Speaker 6: It's one more quick.

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Speaker 8: Yes, okay.

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Speaker 10: I was asked wondering whether in the complex there's a

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diamonds and all the latest dream about consciousness. Have you

341
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,119
keep up with the latest developments of skin or garage

342
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:12,359
where we have a combination of hard science and.

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Speaker 5: Yes, the bigger question is the speed with the two

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parts of skip told episodes.

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Speaker 6: On the U f O Mighty American, I haven't, but

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I will. Let's talk about a bigger later. That's that's.

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Speaker 5: Let's talking about how that'll about lazy, I'll see you outside.

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Speaker 1: Next up was Christian Lander presenting The Secret of the

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Night Crawlers.

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Speaker 11: So at that event was a US Air Force veteran.

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He has a YouTube channel goes by the name of

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Rogue Alien, and it is often his piece of footage

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that is the most commonly shared version of the night

354
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Crawling and so what it is. He's in the crowd,

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he's got his handcam and he's looking up at the

356
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presentation being shown, which is the reason why a lot

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of the videos have that weird distorted view and the

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clock a weird kind of anger because they're using Rogue

359
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Aliens video footage of the Nightcrawler. Of the documentary, it's

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been shown at the event, if that makes sense. So indeed,

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this thread here is from abovetopsecret dot Com posted by

362
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:32,079
Johnny Anonymous and his synopsis of the event. Of course

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he was there, and indeed he was able to discuss

364
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his views on the event, as well as many other

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discussion threads that popped up around the same time. So

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the Mantis footage was indeed the topic that had everyone talking.

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It was the wow, it was the gas moment. So

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as we've seen the initial videos by Jose and Victor

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Camacho in two thousand and eight to two thousand and nine,

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there was another piece of footage that I've actually been

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unsuccessful in tracking down. And I can remember this piece

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of footage as it appeared to show two characters walking

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side by side. It was a garden, It appeared to

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be much smaller and eerily also appeared to be shot

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on CCTV. So what happened from this point onwards is

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that the night Crawlers of now their folklore has expanded.

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They're now a family. There's now a bigger one and

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a smaller one. They say that the Internet doesn't forget.

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I have tried really hard to find that piece of footage,

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and I so far have been unsuccessful. From twenty eleven,

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there's another piece of footage that shows a white walker

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strutting past a gap in the tree line o This

383
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footage grabbed the viral flow of the internet in twenty

384
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eleven has continued it to find itself in the montages

385
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ever since. This is from Yosemite National Park, or rather

386
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a residence that is within the park itself in Yosemite,

387
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and it says that it's a retired couple and they

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had pointed their camera to the back of their house

389
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because they were tired of burglars, or there was warnings

390
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of burglars in the area, so they discourse and wanted

391
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to disturb and to catch anybody that was coming.

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Speaker 8: In the day. I didn't have the weight.

393
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Speaker 6: On the white brass.

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Speaker 11: Yes, a factory. They're weighted down with pegs. Unless it

395
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is a cardboard tube with a fasten at the top,

396
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just kind of give it that weight and that kind

397
00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:51,279
of knee joint effectively as it makes its stride. That's

398
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the same of course, both legs.

399
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Speaker 8: Sweet destroying a.

400
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: Suspiciously press.

401
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 12: Buy landing on my legs.

402
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Speaker 13: The lext.

403
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Speaker 12: What's if I'm all over here? Whilst slightly lower down

404
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:38,680
you can get quite fast easy walking motion and striding

405
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along the grass. I'm doing literally pulling left.

406
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Speaker 14: And why is the kind of where the moves along

407
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the ground.

408
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Speaker 8: This is how.

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Speaker 12: This walker believe with animator, let's take this cables from

410
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:26,240
either side, have mannequin walk this way you can get

411
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a full walks by the left right.

412
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Speaker 4: Left left.

413
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Speaker 1: Christian's film clearly demonstrated how one could imitate the Nightcrawler

414
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:43,000
footage by using a pair of trousers on a line

415
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,720
being tugged along with invisible wires, which did look quite convincing.

416
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Or I suspect the original Nightcrawler footage was possibly formulated

417
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on some kind of CGI program like Mayer or three

418
00:22:55,279 --> 00:23:00,000
D Studio Max, rather than physical trousers on a washing line.

419
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Speaker 5: So freaking last year, in what do you think about

420
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these Rawson?

421
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Speaker 1: Following on from the Night Rulers, we then had a

422
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:22,440
talk about our ghosts all in the mind the evidence

423
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from animals with Dr Anne Winsper.

424
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Speaker 8: Thought, let's just looks, so I'll stall in the mind

425
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:41,480
the evidence from animals. Well, these are my three current answers.

426
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,839
Are aaps walking, We're not the evil thanks, and Vincent's

427
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Who's apparently swoning the.

428
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Speaker 15: Dead there and Lucifer, who is actually seen dead people

429
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,880
in that picture, but not actually psyching.

430
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Speaker 8: If I don't think they see dead people book, who knows?

431
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,400
So can animals see ghosts? Well, this seems like a

432
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,079
simple question, but as always with a normous phenomena, things

433
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,079
may not be how they seem. So let's look at

434
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,160
some contemporary discussions about animals seeing ghosts. Taken from the Internet.

435
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:27,200
So the question was can cats see spirits? So I'll

436
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,359
read out some of the responses. I have a cat

437
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:33,799
that is just like any other cat, but occasionally she

438
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,359
would just stare at the corner of a room like

439
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:41,039
five minutes, sometimes even longer if some one was there.

440
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,039
When there wasn't, It creeps me out. So I did

441
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,400
some research, and I heard that cats can see spirits,

442
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,039
and I very much believe this. Of course, the famous

443
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internet research.

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Speaker 16: The next one.

445
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Speaker 15: I've heard stories about cats pouring the air above and

446
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recently dece to person.

447
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,559
Speaker 8: Presumably they can see the person's spirits and are trying

448
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,920
to touch it. So I think it's highly plausible that

449
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they can.

450
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Speaker 15: Mind stairs are random locations in the house, places with

451
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no books or other.

452
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Speaker 8: Distractions, just a random corner of the house. So in

453
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,599
my opinion, I think they definitely can see them personally

454
00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:25,160
knowing cats, I think if they're pouring me out.

455
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Speaker 15: The recently deceased person, they're probably checking their debts so

456
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:29,480
they can eat them.

457
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Speaker 8: Right next answer, I believe so. I've had my current

458
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:42,319
cat a little bits over a year, but she's stopped

459
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,240
running or focus on a particular spot for a minute

460
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,279
or two, then start zooming off in the opposite direction.

461
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,400
My sister and I think it's our late paternal grandfather.

462
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,640
I feel his presence every once in a while, and

463
00:25:55,759 --> 00:26:02,279
he loved to tease cats. Sadly, I think we can

464
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,799
discount these type of reports as they're just descriptions of

465
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:11,000
normal cat behavior. Remember that cats have much superior sight, hearing,

466
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,400
and smell than us. If they think that's something interesting

467
00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:17,880
in or behind the wall, they can spell, can spend

468
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,599
long periods staring at.

469
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 15: The wall, and this is how they punt in the wild.

470
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,160
They focus on prey for at sometime and then they pounce.

471
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,319
Cats can see six times better than.

472
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,079
Speaker 8: Us in dim light, and they also have the wider

473
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,279
field of vision and their eyes are very sensitive to

474
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small movements as you'll know if you move the tone

475
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,079
in then it will be immediately pounced on by a cat.

476
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,000
The human eyelands blocks UV light, but cats are sensitive

477
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:50,200
to UV light, so if the cats is staring at

478
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,920
the wall, it can probably see a tiny insect, does particles,

479
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,680
or something completely beyond our vision but not paranormal. Cats

480
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,759
can also here up to a much higher frequency than

481
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,680
either humans or dogs, and they have forty times more

482
00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:10,759
SEM receptors than humans. Regarding the report of the cat

483
00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:14,759
with zoomings focusing on a spose, again, this is perfectly

484
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,960
normal behavior for a cat. And while they neighbor by

485
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:19,480
creatures of the dams.

486
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 15: As they heard around the house wide eyed are knocking

487
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,240
all the orderm ands over.

488
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,799
Speaker 8: This really is just normal behavior. This behavior has even

489
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,000
been misinterpreted in the famous investigating cases, for example the

490
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,759
broth of a Dolly case in Whales, where it was

491
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:40,839
stated by the investigator the cat often rushes around the

492
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,920
house as if someone were chasing in. Again, this is

493
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:50,920
perfectly normal behavior for a cat, if you think it's

494
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,759
figline centric. Same question for dogs.

495
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 15: We've been staring a stake in an Airbnb for a

496
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:00,400
few days now, and one of our dogs has been

497
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,200
reacting to something, looking up at the ceiling in the

498
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:05,720
family room, training something with her eyes.

499
00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:10,519
Speaker 8: He's happened multiple times over multiple days and usually lasts

500
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,839
just a few minutes. We've never seen her do this before.

501
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,119
He's staying still with just her eyes drowning is what

502
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:21,359
gets me most. Is it possible she's seen ghosts? Has

503
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,720
only one seen the dog do this type of thing

504
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:27,799
the next one, But last night one of the dogs

505
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,839
woke up in her sleep and would not stop staring

506
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,680
at the corner of our bedroom. It's freaking me out

507
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,880
at this point, as I know dogs consents things that

508
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,759
humans can't. As I stay calm, this is the first

509
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,880
time I've heard a growl and she's using her big

510
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:46,960
girl bark. She sits on the bed next to me,

511
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,720
continues to trace something with her eyes right to laft

512
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:53,960
and on the floor or by my nightstand. I thought

513
00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:57,400
maybe she'd had a bad dream and maybe she got scared,

514
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,920
But when she continued to do this for about thirty minutes,

515
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,640
I was worried. I never saw anything, I didn't feel

516
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,160
a dark presence, and I never heard anything to spook me.

517
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,759
I'd try and catch an evening he as if I

518
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,440
catch something, I won't be able to sleep there, and

519
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:16,720
I don't want to give it attention to let it

520
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,920
know I'm scared. I'll probably sage the house. This is

521
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,480
just describing perfectly normal behavior for a dog. Their senses

522
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:31,240
are also considerably sharper than hours, and they can easily

523
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,759
eat the perceiving insect, rodents or something outside.

524
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,359
Speaker 15: If you're staying in an MV and B and your

525
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,839
dog is following something along the ceiling, I would suggest

526
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,319
the property he's got rodents to assign a paranormal effect to.

527
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,079
Speaker 8: This is just another example of the state of the

528
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,599
paranormal today. Everything is blindly assigned to the paranormal with

529
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,519
no critical thinking at all. This is a real shame,

530
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,000
as animals can help to provide information about normal events.

531
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,079
Dogs can certainly be aware of normal events that are invisible.

532
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,920
For us, dogs consent sparametric changes, although those of us

533
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:15,759
with migrains have that off pat ourselves. Of course, they've

534
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:19,160
also been described many times as being able to apparently

535
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,720
predict earthquakes, as have many other animals, and as well

536
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,000
as dogs detecting drugs and weapons, we now have dogs

537
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,960
that can detect cancer in people, so there is some

538
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,039
merit in looking at the reports and animals as sensing

539
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:35,200
something at the same time we do.

540
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 6: So looking back at.

541
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 8: More historical events. Sorry, mister slide, there we go. Looking

542
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,119
back at more historical reports, we find the following from

543
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,559
the Phantasms of the Living. About the year eighteen seventy five,

544
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,720
I and my sister we were about thirteen years of age.

545
00:30:57,079 --> 00:30:58,079
Thirteen years of age.

546
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,039
Speaker 17: Then we're driving home in the car.

547
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 8: One summer afternoon, about four o'clock, when they suddenly appeared

548
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,839
floating over the hedge, a female figure moving noiselessly across

549
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,759
the road. The figure was in white and the body

550
00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:15,000
in a slanting position some ten feet above the ground.

551
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:19,759
The hall suddenly stopped and shook with fright, so much

552
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,440
so that we couldn't get it to go on. I

553
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,559
called out my sister, did he see that? And she

554
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,480
said she had, and so did the boy Caffrey, who

555
00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:31,559
was in the cart. The figure went over the hedge

556
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:33,839
on the other side of the road and passed over

557
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,240
a field, so we lost size of it on the

558
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:40,559
planet sectional beyond altogether, I suppose we watched it for

559
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:43,440
a couple of minutes. It never touched the ground at

560
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,759
all but floated calmly along. On reaching home. We told

561
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:49,960
our mother of what we had seen, and we were

562
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,759
per very certain that it was not a mere delusion

563
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,119
or illusion, nor an owl or anything of that kind.

564
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,519
I've never seen anything.

565
00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 15: Like this, not any apparition before or since. We were

566
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,519
all in good health at the time, and no one

567
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,720
had suggested any grounds for the apparition beforehand.

568
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 8: But we afterwards heard that the road was supposed to

569
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,839
be haunted and a figure had been seen by some

570
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:22,079
of the country folks. Now I'm sure you all remember

571
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,160
this that this upset me enormously when I saw it

572
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:28,960
when it happened. But the horses are all like count

573
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,200
so it's fine. Horses are prey animals. Their senses are

574
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,759
finally cheating at any danger. They will spook at the

575
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,400
slightest thing. I mean, these poor army horses were spooked

576
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,079
by building materials being dropped near them, But anyone with

577
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,359
horses knows that they will spook at something as small

578
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:52,359
as a leaf, or a cloud or a blade of grass. However,

579
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,079
in this case, the whole stopping were frighted coincided from

580
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,319
the apparition appearing. I will expect a horse to song

581
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,880
refused to continue with the appermission of the something more normal,

582
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,319
such as something they blown by the wind, but the

583
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:11,119
witness seems convinced that it was a paranormal event. If

584
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,839
we assume that this was in fact a paranormal with

585
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,880
that rather than.

586
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 15: Misperception, this suggests that the horse was also a witness

587
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:23,160
to the event, which means it was absturble to the Paseivians.

588
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,839
Speaker 1: So we lead Dr Anne Winsber there talking about the

589
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,759
evidence of animals with ghosts, and after the break we

590
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,480
were then joined by Deborah Hyde who presented the Kroclin vampire.

591
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,039
Speaker 17: Kroplin is a place in Cumbria and.

592
00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 8: From krop which is probably a broken bit and which

593
00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:51,960
is the vent in the stream. So because it's very

594
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:59,400
beautiful and fascinated it's next a very high felm and yeah,

595
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,920
that is the administration of below for probably Range Empire.

596
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,119
Now also a bit to me it looks like Anthony

597
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,480
Hopkins studying to do a lecture. Yeah it doesn't it,

598
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,239
but it was used many years.

599
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 6: Before he did that.

600
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 8: It was going to be a book cover and never

601
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,559
ended up being so, but it's kind of it covers

602
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:22,679
the whole story really. The story was related by a

603
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,679
guy called Augusta's Head, who was known for collecting lots

604
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,159
of anecdotes about other class people which were quite boring,

605
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,079
and when anecdotes about some of the natural things which

606
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:33,159
were very interesting.

607
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,119
Speaker 18: And he told the story of when he was at

608
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:39,679
dinner one night with three people. There was Henry Thomas Libble,

609
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,440
who was the first old Ravensworth, and Captain Edward fisher Row,

610
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,760
who is not just underlited. I didn't really look like

611
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,480
they're anti photographs.

612
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,599
Speaker 8: So that is why he turns up a break and

613
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,880
they all told each other creepy stories, and the one

614
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,880
from fisher Row used the one that he is an

615
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,400
analyst said in England, which.

616
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 17: Is very very unusual.

617
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:06,559
Speaker 8: The Fisher place, he said, have possessed a very old

618
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,239
place called Croglen Grange. It's one story high that has

619
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,079
a terrace from which large grounds sweep away towards the

620
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,719
church and wallow and a fine distant view.

621
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 19: Now this is something of a historical story for.

622
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 8: The Fisher family because at some point they decided to

623
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,639
move away from Cumbria, and I mean we kind of

624
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,079
know the thing, you know, bright lights, big city, so

625
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:35,760
they moved down south to Guildford. This is where they

626
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,559
all met for dinner, but they're not there's actually very

627
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:48,239
good pizza expressing. So at the time going back, yeah, tennants,

628
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:49,440
two brothers and a sister.

629
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 18: They heard their crazies from all porters. So the tenants

630
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,559
were very clean and so we're not prone to making

631
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,440
up funny stories at all.

632
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 8: They separated from the night and retiring to their rooms on.

633
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 18: The ground floor, but the sister didn't close the shutters,

634
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,679
as it had been very hot day, and she became

635
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,079
aware of two lights which flickered in and out of

636
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:09,880
the vellows.

637
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:12,599
Speaker 8: Of trees which separated from room from the churchyard. It

638
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,599
was fixed in the dark substance, a definite ghastly to

639
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,480
something increasing in size and substance as it approached, and

640
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:26,039
the most uncontrollable horror seized her, as is suitable in

641
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,000
the story of this nature the door. The door was closing,

642
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:33,960
the door lock on the inside, so she didn't actually

643
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:38,079
go lock the shuttering. She wear at it. Her voice

644
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:39,119
seemed paralyzed.

645
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,119
Speaker 18: She heard scratch, scratch, scratch upon the window and saw

646
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:46,719
a hideous the brown face with flaming eyes glaring in

647
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,800
at her, and became aware that the.

648
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,119
Speaker 8: Creature was unpicking the lead. The pain fell into the

649
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:57,119
room and this bony figure came in unpitched the rest

650
00:36:57,199 --> 00:36:59,440
of the window. It came up to the bed, twisted

651
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,280
its long boy fingers into.

652
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:03,519
Speaker 18: Her hair, tragged her head over the side of the bed,

653
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,599
and bit violently at her throat. One brother pursued the

654
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:14,119
preacher after she shouted, and it fled through the moonlight with.

655
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 8: Gigantic stripes, so a sense of being preternatural, and eventually

656
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:23,079
seemed to disappear over the wall into the churchyard nearby.

657
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,880
And of course, being a very sorrational, level headed kind

658
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,159
of girl, she said, of course there is an explanation,

659
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,719
as it must be an escaped united So in order

660
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:39,000
to recover, the whole family went briefly into Switzerland. Then

661
00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:42,280
after that they came back to living cropping because they

662
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,760
were going to tough this thing out. But it happened again.

663
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,800
There was another scratch upon the window of the same

664
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,000
ground that his shoel place.

665
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 17: Staring in.

666
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,639
Speaker 8: One of the brothers fired heating in the leg, and

667
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,639
it swirled into the churchyard and seemed to disappear into

668
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,920
a vault into a family long extinct. So here we

669
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:04,960
have a really really good fun plant story. Actually, the

670
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,599
next day the vault was full of coffins. They broke

671
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:10,360
in with a load of locals and they saw that

672
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,599
the contents of the other coffins were horribly thrown around

673
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,199
the place and all around the place, but one remained

674
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,960
intellect of that literally lifted, but it was looser on

675
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:25,519
the coffin. They raised it round with a true mummified

676
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:28,199
but quite in time it was the same hideous speed,

677
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,639
and it had an some recent pistol shot in the lake.

678
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,079
And they did the only thing that can lay a vampire.

679
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:39,159
They burnt it. Technical point, there's actually other things you

680
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,960
can do to lay a vampire, but we won't go

681
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:45,480
into those, that's definitely. So they did the quite thing.

682
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,079
Now the work this is interesting.

683
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 18: The whole thing that made Krombin interesting is baphires don't

684
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,840
really belong in England. I mean, there are a couple

685
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,960
of sort of We've got a couple of revenant.

686
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 8: Type stories from women Newborough automatic people might have.

687
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 18: We're talking about the twelfth century when England was going

688
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,639
through a very very bloody civil war, in the Civil

689
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:10,280
War which hit every class of society, so.

690
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,119
Speaker 17: They kind of really lived along in the.

691
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:17,599
Speaker 8: Eastern Europe, and our knowledge of them comes from the

692
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:21,760
earliest eighteenth century when the folklore traveled to the west

693
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,400
to US. Now, Eastern Europe is a specific place politically

694
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,360
in the religiosity. It's under the influence of several it's

695
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,679
kind of on the frontier, if you like, of several

696
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,880
religious kinds of influences, and also different empire influences too.

697
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,639
You have the Holy Roman Empire fighting against the Ottoman

698
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,760
Empire fighting against it, you know, sort of subic what

699
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,679
would be the Russian Empire later. So these borders were

700
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,119
moving backward and forwards all the time, and so there

701
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:58,079
were working class people who were just performing perfectly, not

702
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,920
rituals to them. It was only really when the Austrian

703
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,599
Empire came in for a very week so journey in

704
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:08,519
the early twentieth century that the commanding officers in charge

705
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:11,159
of these areas were sending back letters saying, what do

706
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,440
we do? Is able to do X, y and z

707
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,199
to these to these corpses, it's awful, what do we do?

708
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,639
So that's how the story has gone out to the West,

709
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,360
because they were shocked at the kind of focus practices

710
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,679
of the people behind these lines. I mean, if empires

711
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,360
really are associated with the epidemic death and a misunderstanding

712
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,199
of an understanding that death does come in epidemics with

713
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,639
exactly what collectors are, and it's about a misunderstanding.

714
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:42,119
Speaker 18: Decomposition too, and people don't keep corpses around the perfect.

715
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,519
Speaker 20: A reason that there are specif continued, so.

716
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,199
Speaker 8: We can understand all sorts of things about decomposition from

717
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,679
books that they couldn't and they would misread as an

718
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:58,800
artificial continuation of life. You like their association with dealing burials.

719
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 21: Things like the bodies being state it didn't have to

720
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:02,719
be in the heart, it could just be in the

721
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,760
gut to or anything that would pioble the delpopments gets

722
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,239
and like to move when it had been buried, or perhaps.

723
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 8: Being faced down, so that if you woke up in

724
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:14,679
its death and it started to try and scrabble out,

725
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,880
it was at least working its way down instead of

726
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,800
working its way up. So that's kind of that's what

727
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,719
we see in vampire folklore. We didn't see any of

728
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,440
that in English folk or it doesn't belong in a

729
00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:28,199
time and place.

730
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 18: So the first person to really investigate Hairs story is

731
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:36,920
a guy called Charles Harper. He wrote a book called

732
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,280
Pointed Houses, and he actually went up to Kroblin to

733
00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:43,000
find out all of the facts to see if they related.

734
00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:45,960
He said, it is to be added from personal observation

735
00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:48,960
that there is no place style Crowlin Range.

736
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 8: There's kroplyin High Hall and Lower Hall, both farmhouses very much.

737
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 18: Like one another and not in any particulars resembling the

738
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,519
description given. So he could actually find something that squarely

739
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:05,480
into the description. He did a picture of Problem Loble

740
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,320
or it still looks pretty much like that, and he

741
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:11,920
indicated that it was probably the house.

742
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 8: That was that was mentioned in the anecdote. But it's

743
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,880
least a mile distant from the church which has been rebuilt.

744
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,519
The churchyard contains no two which could be identified with

745
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:27,159
that described by mistic Hair and the at least Problem church,

746
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,360
and that is it's actually over a mile, well over

747
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,199
a mile. You'd have to be a bit athletic to

748
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,639
run across the ds to that there's.

749
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:35,079
Speaker 6: Being as church.

750
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 8: There's in Saxon times that one wouse Victorian, so it's

751
00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:42,320
harm more recent. But they can't find the bulb there.

752
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:47,400
It's too distant, and it was it doesn't seem white

753
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,719
for once. Now we know that it's been there, has

754
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,400
been in church there since Saxon times, because we have

755
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,360
all of the curates and liquors that have been there.

756
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,079
And I'd like to look at the name here of

757
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:04,320
the man in thirteen thirty five. Now it's not the

758
00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:06,920
tall relevent to anything we're talking about, but I think

759
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,119
you know why don't you.

760
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 18: But relevant to our story is George Sanderson from sixteen

761
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,119
seventy one. Ill end up coming back to him seventeenth

762
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:23,079
century Bicker.

763
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 8: Now we can see from the aerial indication of Crown

764
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,920
Church that they're talking about, they were engineering one.

765
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 18: Story high at has a terrace with a large ground

766
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,000
sweep away towards the church in a hollow, and there's

767
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,639
a fine distant vie. This doesn't correlate to her description.

768
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,000
What we can see, however, from the sixteenth century.

769
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 16: Man is that you can see.

770
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,159
Speaker 1: After a brief taster of the Kroglin vampire, we then

771
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,159
heard about my very first ghost hunt with ghost hunter

772
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,199
John Fraser.

773
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,159
Speaker 17: Curiosity.

774
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 22: How many of you in the audience of emil Ant

775
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:06,800
are prmal investigation.

776
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 17: How many of you would keep it hand?

777
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,519
Speaker 22: How many of you would consider that your very first

778
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:28,079
one went perfectly. But I think there's something to be

779
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:31,719
said about telling you a little story about it and.

780
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 4: See you let.

781
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:46,599
Speaker 22: No no, depending on your age, and most of us

782
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,480
in the audience have either got our first thing.

783
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 8: Peter god.

784
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 17: Are reponds a lot of the ones perhaps, and.

785
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 23: Admit of first perspective of the subject comes probably from

786
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:22,760
that of romantic greements, indulging what if passion, and that

787
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,960
the science and quest for meaning and evidence.

788
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 17: I think the body comes later.

789
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 22: After all, even Isaac Newton started as a romantic alchemist,

790
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,239
asking what if the base.

791
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:41,559
Speaker 24: Metals can be transferred into gold? And as we all know,

792
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:49,119
Newton became one a scientist. And if changing science was.

793
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:53,159
Speaker 17: A only aim we perhaps we could make, we've probably

794
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:53,800
all failed.

795
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:54,559
Speaker 4: Miserately.

796
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,519
Speaker 22: I tend to say how a normal investigation is also

797
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:02,880
about testing one's own beliefs.

798
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 8: On the from me and.

799
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 22: And I was on thirty and purely by accidents, I

800
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,920
discovered him in a real TV documentary of the life ghosts.

801
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:24,360
Now that was long before the fifty first series.

802
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,119
Speaker 8: Of Who Was Haunted was available on demand.

803
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,119
Speaker 22: Now, this documentary intrigued me so much that I think

804
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,800
it's not the library, empted the jails and started stare

805
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,920
some maps of haunted sites. I was especially interested in

806
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:48,800
those and particularly remote places, especially of Scotland.

807
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 17: And I decided that, you know, thirteen, I was either

808
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:59,119
going to or a professional goalkeeper. I didn't grow up enough.

809
00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 22: Goalkeeper, and about a decade later I follow myself and

810
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,039
the double job as a training auditor.

811
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 8: And around the same time I found myself watching this

812
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,840
magical new movie with a.

813
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 22: Magical soundtrack by that don't know if you guys have

814
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:30,440
seen it, but would so recommend it. It's kind of

815
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:39,480
about an American young executive enchanted magic, I'm quite honestly.

816
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,679
At that point I had a look at unique movement

817
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,280
and I remembered an equally in changing case in Anderwek's book,

818
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:54,800
The even more remote Scottish Wanting of Sad Bay.

819
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 4: And if you wonder, just tell the muted it.

820
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,559
Speaker 17: It's kind of virtue of the map.

821
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,199
Speaker 22: Now, this is supposed to be wanted by a fat

822
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:16,519
Polish sailer, was a boushy beard and Pete car and

823
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:21,199
it's also in inconveniently serveted by Pete Bogs and.

824
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 17: Philom Maddals of being good on the track.

825
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 25: Also came convenience of desperate to cottage which is happening

826
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:36,559
the mean chacking to geys at times. And by the

827
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:39,960
end of this movie I gets decided, let's spending a

828
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:44,480
night there at Sandford was.

829
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 8: The essence of ghost hunting. It was something that simply

830
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:52,440
had to be done and be achieved.

831
00:48:54,760 --> 00:49:00,119
Speaker 17: Now three later novel things that were to help and

832
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:06,639
hinder me in this task. The first one lots of

833
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,519
either purchased for you have parents.

834
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 22: Nicknamed the Confident my friends, second one fully comprehensive a membership.

835
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:20,559
Speaker 8: Speak.

836
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 22: And finally, in fact I just happened to be international

837
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,679
officers the Young Democrats, and there was a confinference in

838
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,880
the Scotch reorganized.

839
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,039
Speaker 17: The European Movement, which in those.

840
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 22: Preda resit days that could drive up to London, most

841
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,119
expenses paid perfect.

842
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 17: I could possibly go on with such out plan.

843
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:51,559
Speaker 8: Well, either by coincidence chrinity, my.

844
00:49:51,639 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 22: Game shattered exactly as I arrived in the conference venue.

845
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,360
Perhaps spirits a SUNDI we're sending sage.

846
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:07,519
Speaker 17: But after the conference I was thinking about the turning room.

847
00:50:08,119 --> 00:50:12,760
I sudly decided to get the A and to make now.

848
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:18,679
Speaker 22: Either to fights prefer the coal claims when you had

849
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:26,199
to walk of mind fixed, of course I had, so

850
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,159
I basically ended up in the spring Sunday morning coffee

851
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,320
in the Regional center, definitely ringing around for a key box,

852
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:34,639
and they have.

853
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:40,039
Speaker 17: Eventually found one, and I found myself.

854
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:46,199
Speaker 22: Driving out the aling Venice and then into the wilderness

855
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:52,760
and like so much I know the past ruins that

856
00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:57,679
chuckly isolated. There's no national class at that castle.

857
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,679
Speaker 17: Who was the clouds hunting?

858
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:01,599
Speaker 8: Their talk.

859
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:08,519
Speaker 4: Which is not.

860
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 17: To underwood as it apparently, And the next day.

861
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:29,519
Speaker 22: Continued further path I d at the last sizeable sevenment.

862
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 8: In charge charge.

863
00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: We left John Fraser with his talk on charge and

864
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:41,400
then we went over to Dr k h L who

865
00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:45,079
gave a very humorous talk on has Elvis really left

866
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:49,079
the building? Looking at the history of the celebrity sales?

867
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 8: And today I'd like to speak to you about an

868
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:04,320
unusual fact and cultural history and presents a brief overview

869
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,800
of some recent work that I've been conducting looking at

870
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,880
historical trends within celebrity parasocial relationships. Now, for as long

871
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,280
as humans have had spiritual concerns and theorized over the

872
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,320
probability and the possibility of an afterlife and an internal soul.

873
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:26,719
We have in turn sought validation of a continued consciousness

874
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,199
through sales and divination members. And while we can achieve

875
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,719
comfort through the general profound messages that we get through,

876
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:42,400
challenge channeled through mediums or seaside psychics and another outlet

877
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:48,880
has often incited far more intense and I believe amusing

878
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:55,679
reactions now, pseudo spiritual connections made with famous individuals that

879
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,840
we never met in life have continued to be a

880
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:06,480
source of entertainment and neo religious fervor for centuries now.

881
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:09,400
Our relationships with celebrities, if you didn't know that the

882
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,440
Queen was dead, I'm sorry, this is a terrible way

883
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:18,400
to find them. Our relationships with celebrities separated from their

884
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:23,559
creative output or media legacy continues in depth, and while

885
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:27,800
their body dies and is no longer accessible, they're perceived

886
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:34,760
availability via spirit contact increases tenfold, especially if you were

887
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:40,639
in possession partial pun intended of the spirit box on

888
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:47,159
similar ITC device. So no clearer as this changing mentality

889
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,480
being than when we Elzabeth the Second died in twenty

890
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:54,440
twenty two, and that was what a ghost I just

891
00:53:54,519 --> 00:53:59,039
came to bottom water within moments of the black Edge

892
00:53:59,199 --> 00:54:03,199
notice being fixed to the gates of Buckingham Palace. Paranormal

893
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,840
live streamers from across the world claimed to be an

894
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,639
active communication with the spectral Monarch. A monarch who would

895
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,400
not ordinarily talk to commonness such as ourselves in life,

896
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,679
and certainly not outside of official engagements, was now chatting

897
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,639
to literally anyone with a weigion board or the inclination

898
00:54:26,199 --> 00:54:28,679
to shout out come on, Lizzie, let's add the matter.

899
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,119
In all of these she discussed her death regrets, made

900
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:40,000
and Martle scandalous, and a hell of a lot of

901
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:45,199
cory related content as well. Quite interestingly, at the time,

902
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,280
I was at a death conference New York because I'm

903
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,320
cheerful song and it honestly felt like we just we'd

904
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,159
all was the lottery because there was no how you

905
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,599
water corn was the next day it was almost form

906
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:02,039
of you what's going to be ark now?

907
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 17: Everyone.

908
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,519
Speaker 8: Lizzie's side in the Spirit Realm appears to be chattier,

909
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:12,480
far more open, and has a clear diary into eternity,

910
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,000
willing to spend hundreds of hours talking to strangers about

911
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:21,159
the inner parts of their psychea their haups fears and

912
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,599
whether or not they actually engineer the Princess Dianaster. And

913
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:31,519
in many instances, musicians who would notably insular or isolated

914
00:55:31,599 --> 00:55:36,480
in their creative processes are suddenly open to broad collaboration

915
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:41,519
with absolute strangers as soon as their heart stops beating. Indeed,

916
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:45,800
over the centuries, everyone from Beethoven to Elvis and even

917
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,639
Freddie Starr have enjoyed composition and performance from just beyond

918
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,679
the pearly Gates. And has anyone this is a very

919
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:56,199
long shop, and I should spend as much time in

920
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,039
charity shops as I do. Has anyone read The Soul

921
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,880
Goes On Part two? I believes The Soul Goes On

922
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:07,440
Part two by Malcolm Thoroughgood musically self on a bridge

923
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:10,840
art foundation, because in that half of the book is

924
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:14,559
after death communications with Freddie Starr, who is continuing his

925
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,800
high quality Elvis impression well into the Every time I

926
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,280
hid about two pound fifteen alves a big over stock.

927
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,559
So see that's my recommendation.

928
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:24,519
Speaker 17: I don't get a cut.

929
00:56:25,079 --> 00:56:31,679
Speaker 8: Sadly, However, after immersing myself in lesser known popular sales media,

930
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,119
I have decided alto to forego a deep dive into

931
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,320
Elvis's creative endeavors from behalf of the grave, but kind

932
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,599
of retain him as an omniscient figurehead for celebrity sales.

933
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:51,679
Elvis is the eternal dead celebrity, a cult figurehead, an

934
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,960
omen of death, a creative focus, and an internal presence

935
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,320
in the column inches and Transatlantic tabloids. It was only

936
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:05,360
last month his stepbrother, who is quite conveniently touring his

937
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:10,159
non run show, is experiencing polticalist activity, saying that it's

938
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:14,079
Elvis just popping in, saying that it was fistock performance

939
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:20,239
pop stop. Now ellis, as a singular example of eternal

940
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,199
spectral influence, been the subject of all of this wonderful

941
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:29,840
business Elvis Presley sales. These to Vinyl final records. I

942
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,159
think Elvis Presley sales is one of the finest things

943
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:39,280
ever ever committed. It quite genuinely, Elvis never inland in life,

944
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:42,320
but in death he was super keen to get to

945
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:48,519
a village hall in Norford again two hundred and fifty

946
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:51,599
to Ironia sort it out.

947
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:53,679
Speaker 26: Right.

948
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,719
Speaker 8: So as an example of eternal spectral influence, He's been

949
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,119
the subject of several spiritual books which we mentioned earlier,

950
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:06,280
including Elvis Afterlife, which I think was mentioned earlier. Canta

951
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,159
said lines blah blah blah, and he's still bothering his family.

952
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,519
Also in that second Elvis one, there the very very

953
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,440
short lack of Breathty is going to be say, doesn't

954
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,360
know with a ranter than the past, but a sales

955
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,400
with Elvis the King lives on and talks to the

956
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,880
world from beyond the grave is an incredibly rare BUFFLINUSA

957
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:31,719
viral record where he also reveals the truth about UFOs.

958
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,079
So if anyone was going to finally settle that argument,

959
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:41,599
it's dead Elvis. Ultimately, the Elvis Presley seance walked, so

960
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:47,760
televised seance could wrong now. In nineteen fifty six, the

961
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,039
term parasocial relationship was first coined by Volton and One,

962
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,559
finding how one sided interactions between a user and media

963
00:58:56,679 --> 00:59:01,199
personality or product resulted in the user unperceiving a greater

964
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,159
depth of relationship that could be rationally attributed to their interactions.

965
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:10,159
The dawn of mass media allowed for individuals to believe

966
00:59:10,199 --> 00:59:13,800
that they were experiencing and developing a face to face

967
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,159
relationship with an individual that they had never interacted with

968
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:23,079
in any meaningful way. In more pop culture examples the

969
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:25,880
pop star Chapel Roman. If any of who are familiar

970
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,679
with her, she recently put.

971
00:59:28,639 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 17: Up several TikTok videos. I'm still youthful.

972
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:34,559
Speaker 8: Line mob SATs of is no idea how it works,

973
00:59:35,039 --> 00:59:35,480
but she.

974
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:36,679
Speaker 17: Got a few videos out.

975
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:44,559
Speaker 8: Chronicling her experiences of predatory, obsessing and threatening behaviors. Now,

976
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:47,840
while the spirit of John Lennon a few shock waves

977
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,760
in the world of beefles fans, I've also known shot

978
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,840
waves in the worlds of param or enthusiasts and pain

979
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,440
per view subscribers who work waiting for their wrestling and

980
00:59:58,639 --> 01:00:02,840
their gyrating women with the brave, illustrative to brack acounts

981
01:00:03,519 --> 01:00:07,880
it's place in the history of celebrity worship and paranormal

982
01:00:09,039 --> 01:00:14,599
popular spiritualism and paranormal history is secured. Parasocial relationships are

983
01:00:14,639 --> 01:00:19,320
an inherent part of the celebrity consumer cycle, but clearly

984
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,000
do not finish at the point of debt, merely transforming

985
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:26,519
and elevating where personal ideas, beliefs, and sensitive self can

986
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:30,719
be projected onto a heavenly blank slate. Today, life stream

987
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,440
saless are commonplace, coming a long way since most Harms's

988
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:38,199
live broadcasts of salances, screaming, and one time viewer interaction

989
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:42,079
from within. The as of regional coaching is as soon

990
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:45,639
as a celebrity death is suggested by media outlet, salesces

991
01:00:45,719 --> 01:00:49,679
and evening piece sessions begin across social media, invariably before

992
01:00:49,679 --> 01:00:52,519
the undertakers have even parked their house. And as we

993
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:57,360
discoursed earlier, Queen Elizabeth didn't stand the chance. And while

994
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,360
Paul Sharer may not be remembered as one of the

995
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:04,239
centuries for a filmmakers, his contribution to paranormal history, celebrity culture,

996
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,239
and brief supportation is undeniable. We can only imagine what

997
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,320
sayss would have released, would have reached the DVD bargain

998
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:12,199
bin and shot.

999
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 17: Up liters a little bit of the market, but.

1000
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 8: In place of the contacts in the spirit Amo himself,

1001
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,079
which should be grateful for his brief dubians from the

1002
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:24,800
supernatural with Supernatural as his brief and his questionable legacy

1003
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,960
of the pay per view sales.

1004
01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

1005
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: And after that talk, it was time for lunch and

1006
01:01:36,159 --> 01:01:40,159
the hawk vacated. We all slowly made our way back

1007
01:01:40,199 --> 01:01:42,960
to the conference lecture hall soon after, and it's there

1008
01:01:43,039 --> 01:01:46,440
I spied Ben talking to the first speaker, Neil Nixon.

1009
01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:56,079
It was then we spotted Matt Arnold giving Professor Chris

1010
01:01:56,199 --> 01:02:00,559
French some spiritual healing or maybe it was massage. Who

1011
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,719
knows it's in a way.

1012
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:05,159
Speaker 4: That's quite something.

1013
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: I wonder what he thinks about it, will obtaining any

1014
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:09,519
kind of real likelies.

1015
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 4: We're going to have the panel discussion a minute.

1016
01:02:13,039 --> 01:02:20,599
Speaker 27: Interesting, let's get to the side of it. I think

1017
01:02:20,639 --> 01:02:23,840
they're going to finish it off in the showers. Following

1018
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:24,280
the lunch.

1019
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: It was then an open panel discussion with all these

1020
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,840
speakers lining up on the stage to discuss questions from

1021
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,119
the audience, and I was one of them, and for once,

1022
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,280
Ben was stumped with any possible questions he had for

1023
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,760
Professor christ French.

1024
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 28: You know, I can't think it's my all my agreements

1025
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:43,719
like disagrange it.

1026
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 4: I can't think any bloody lussion to thank you for volunteers, because.

1027
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:12,599
Speaker 29: That's okay, right, it's about about that, Yeah, okay, right, Really,

1028
01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:16,079
so one asked is for each of the panelists to

1029
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:17,760
do an elevator edge.

1030
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:22,159
Speaker 30: They've got thirty seconds each. We'll start over at the

1031
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:29,679
far end. Sorry, yeah, that one's wording. Yeah, So we'll

1032
01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:31,480
start with the fiend and bring it all the way down.

1033
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,199
Speaker 29: You've got thirty seconds to introduce yourself to everybody. Yeah,

1034
01:03:34,199 --> 01:03:37,119
slim you have already spoken, but a lot of peoples

1035
01:03:37,199 --> 01:03:38,599
so over to you.

1036
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 31: I've been fascinating with the paranel with My whole life

1037
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,599
started out just listening to lots of scary folk for

1038
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:49,159
stories from my mad unties, and transforgrified into just being very,

1039
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,880
very interested in the historical and cultural context of all

1040
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,159
these beliefs, because whether the preachers in sea stall and art.

1041
01:03:57,119 --> 01:03:59,159
Speaker 8: Factor is that they turn up time and time and

1042
01:03:59,239 --> 01:04:00,760
time again our brains.

1043
01:04:01,199 --> 01:04:05,039
Speaker 32: So I find this absolutely fruscidating and revitical side of

1044
01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:05,920
human nature.

1045
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 8: And that is why I spent a lot of time

1046
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:17,159
reading about vampires were well, podcasts and deeps all over

1047
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:22,280
the bloodies. I'm not rhyming whinspur. I have looked at

1048
01:04:22,599 --> 01:04:26,400
ghosts for about fifty years now and I still hoping

1049
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,079
managed to catch one in a jar or I've been trying.

1050
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:35,159
Did my PhD on electronic ghost phenomena, sort of interested

1051
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:35,519
in that.

1052
01:04:36,239 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 4: My big thing for the last.

1053
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,639
Speaker 8: Probably fifteen years or so has been time Slimps. So

1054
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,840
if anyone has any weird time experiences, rees, common speed.

1055
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 4: I just lot to page us.

1056
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 33: I start as an economist really, so it's converting into

1057
01:04:57,559 --> 01:05:00,559
psychology in the early nineties, still a PA actually with

1058
01:05:00,679 --> 01:05:08,440
Wiship Wiseman in the Scienties, spent fifteen years lecturing and

1059
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,920
searching the animal come out Academia. Now at the moment,

1060
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,320
I am searching the Boston case that I'm because up

1061
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,920
on that time bost.

1062
01:05:21,639 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 17: Chris French.

1063
01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 34: I used to believe in anormal stuff right away through

1064
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:28,679
doing a psychology degree.

1065
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 17: When I was doing my PhD, which was a very

1066
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,960
respectable end of your science.

1067
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,079
Speaker 34: I remembers remember called parapsychology science or managic by James

1068
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:41,360
Olcock and psychology.

1069
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 13: This is the first skeptical treatment of any of this

1070
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,679
stuff I've come across. Opened my eyes to the wonderful

1071
01:05:46,719 --> 01:05:52,119
world skepticism. Initially all started as a hobby. Gradually I

1072
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,440
kind of realized I could actually teach some of this stuff.

1073
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:58,800
I could do the occasionally little projects here and there,

1074
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,400
get some publications. Craft is a book from there until yes,

1075
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,000
now finally retire in twenty twenty.

1076
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 17: Are my bodies available on sale?

1077
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,159
Speaker 8: So I'm doctor k Charl I'm a writer in Lidelic

1078
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:21,840
and my odd sessions are sessionly miserable Victorians. So right

1079
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:26,599
three zoo one in Culture's of in Seance. I co

1080
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,039
hosts a podcast called Loopholes.

1081
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,719
Speaker 35: Which takes a sideways book at the esoteric and as

1082
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:35,320
a light laugh.

1083
01:06:36,039 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 8: And my book is out in May five, if.

1084
01:06:40,719 --> 01:06:43,079
Speaker 36: I will pre order on all the usual places, so

1085
01:06:43,239 --> 01:06:47,360
please please please preorder it. And those sales me and

1086
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:52,360
and once last year and came backs called the offer brity,

1087
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,559
and that has defined my identity.

1088
01:06:58,039 --> 01:07:01,239
Speaker 15: Hi, every on, I'm the one actually because these are

1089
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:02,119
all experts.

1090
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,079
Speaker 8: I'm here because.

1091
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 15: Of an experience I had when I was nineteen, which

1092
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,519
is a long time ago. Is a bolt, guys, and

1093
01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:13,440
a lots of messages which you'll get to hear about

1094
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,679
because oh jesus if you book about it tomorrow. But

1095
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,239
I'm sort of via just as an experience with no

1096
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,559
answers unfortunately.

1097
01:07:24,519 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 4: Brilliant. Okay, well, thank you very much for coming on.

1098
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,320
What we're going to do is we're going to open

1099
01:07:29,519 --> 01:07:33,880
up for questions from people and you can either direct

1100
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:34,800
it to some panel or.

1101
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 37: A one particular person if you've got a particular interest

1102
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:41,719
for that person answering that I might break it open

1103
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:43,199
for other people's answer as well.

1104
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 4: Actually, then as we go along, if you have got

1105
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,519
a question and we're kind of get.

1106
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,559
Speaker 37: Towards the end of an answer, so be aware of

1107
01:07:50,679 --> 01:07:51,880
getting towards the end of the answer.

1108
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 4: I'm sure we're going to be really aware of that.

1109
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:56,599
Speaker 29: If you could just kind of pop your hand up

1110
01:07:56,639 --> 01:07:59,079
so that Christ can come and so you saw you

1111
01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:01,320
could kind of smoothed it through.

1112
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,119
Speaker 4: That's the idea that Nick hens to speak. But in

1113
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,360
order to start the ball, Robbie, what I'm going to

1114
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:11,360
do is, I'm just going to ask you what particularly

1115
01:08:12,039 --> 01:08:13,039
got you interesting?

1116
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 37: What was it the one thing that got particularly interested

1117
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,079
in researching the strange?

1118
01:08:21,239 --> 01:08:23,520
Speaker 22: And is there something.

1119
01:08:25,039 --> 01:08:31,039
Speaker 37: That you still go, h that's strange? I really can't

1120
01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:34,199
get an answer to that at this stage. Okay, so

1121
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:40,159
ever like that, I.

1122
01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:43,279
Speaker 15: Don't actually believe in the paranorm until I had an

1123
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:46,319
experience was about maybe some people in the audience have

1124
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,000
had the same plain that they got in.

1125
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:56,560
Speaker 17: The other questions were what you have.

1126
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,039
Speaker 4: Still remaining with us?

1127
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:04,079
Speaker 17: That is everything rubbish?

1128
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 15: Yeah, I do believe the answers are in science what

1129
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,399
they are. I feel that because we don't have a

1130
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,960
decent model to explain these things. You can't test something

1131
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:20,239
without a model, and that's my belief. So so you

1132
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:24,640
have a decent model, you can't look at in you know,

1133
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,840
you don't know what you're looking for basically, So I

1134
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,600
think that that's probably my take on that.

1135
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:34,159
Speaker 4: Thanks.

1136
01:09:35,159 --> 01:09:38,359
Speaker 17: My interest also based in experiences as well.

1137
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 8: I lived for a time with my sister in a

1138
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:47,279
study detatched house. You got to be very and we

1139
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:51,520
had extreme podcast phenomena in that house for three to

1140
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,680
four years. That ended in things in Roman and what

1141
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:00,359
we believed before festations. So since then I have tried

1142
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,520
to understand it and debonk it myself, and I think

1143
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,680
a lot of things we can because we can trigue

1144
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,720
above that to our mind about your gats and be

1145
01:10:11,359 --> 01:10:16,159
the teenager in the in the late nineties. But also

1146
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,279
most of it has still got been a scratching with

1147
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,399
which is why I obsess over terrible fakes and by

1148
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,720
sidekicks all days, because they're far more full and easier

1149
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:25,119
to people.

1150
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:31,079
Speaker 17: Thank you, terrible fakes. I was very excited, a very

1151
01:10:31,119 --> 01:10:32,239
galling fear on the scene.

1152
01:10:34,359 --> 01:10:37,159
Speaker 34: I mean I usually well, as I said, I've been

1153
01:10:37,159 --> 01:10:39,520
in the sixth or school and Galla appeared on the scene,

1154
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,920
and it was incredibly exciting because he appeared to be

1155
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,279
the real thing that was. Scientists around it was saying

1156
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:46,720
they believed he was.

1157
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,279
Speaker 17: The real thing, and I was totally totally total with you.

1158
01:10:49,399 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 13: But I like that I've already said what kind of

1159
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:58,319
turned me on to skepticism, and I'm just as interesting

1160
01:10:58,439 --> 01:10:59,800
to try to just ask the question.

1161
01:11:00,359 --> 01:11:02,239
Speaker 17: Basically, it's a kind of working hypothesis.

1162
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 13: My starting point for a lot of the research is

1163
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:08,560
to say, well, let's just assume the paranormal forces don't exist.

1164
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,159
Speaker 17: Could we possibly explain the weird experiences.

1165
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,399
Speaker 4: That people definitely do have any other way?

1166
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 34: And then, wherever possible, can we put those guys of

1167
01:11:17,039 --> 01:11:18,439
explanations to the test.

1168
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 17: So That's where I'm at now. I'm gone from being

1169
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:22,840
a believer.

1170
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,359
Speaker 13: To being kind of fairly extreme skeptic back towards the

1171
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,319
middle ground, and I'm trying to look quite prepare to

1172
01:11:27,359 --> 01:11:29,760
say I'm may be wrong a work.

1173
01:11:30,279 --> 01:11:32,560
Speaker 17: The idea is that if nobody's actually looking.

1174
01:11:32,399 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 34: For these non paranormal explanations for ostensibly paranormal experience.

1175
01:11:37,079 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 17: As well, we're not going to find them, are we.

1176
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:40,520
So it may well be that some.

1177
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 34: Things that are genuinely paranormal. But if that's the case,

1178
01:11:44,079 --> 01:11:47,479
I'll be helping you to saw the genuinely paranormal and stuff.

1179
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:53,520
Speaker 4: That just looks as paranormal before. What was the seriously

1180
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,920
strange thing that makes you still going no?

1181
01:11:56,239 --> 01:11:56,399
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1182
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:57,399
Speaker 4: Sorry, yeah, I mean.

1183
01:12:00,319 --> 01:12:03,520
Speaker 17: Obviously I very often get aspect for talks. You know,

1184
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:05,760
have you ever come across saying that you.

1185
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,520
Speaker 13: Couldn't explain and I basically just say no, next question,

1186
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:11,520
then I don't really but what I do if I

1187
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,880
say is a joke. The short answer is, I've got

1188
01:12:16,239 --> 01:12:18,359
all the stuff that we've ever done in terms of

1189
01:12:19,159 --> 01:12:20,920
experimental tests.

1190
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 17: Of things like to let, the the precomgnition and so

1191
01:12:23,039 --> 01:12:24,479
on and so forth, and I've done a lot.

1192
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 13: None of that stuff has ever come out kind of

1193
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:30,800
you and then you people from fitnessing.

1194
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 38: Having said that, I've appeared in lots and lots of

1195
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,600
often really really terrible TV programs.

1196
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,319
Speaker 17: Well, one or two occasions been things where I've actually

1197
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,640
kind of thought that was that was intriguing. You know,

1198
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:45,600
I'm not quite sure.

1199
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:46,159
Speaker 4: What the answer was.

1200
01:12:46,359 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 17: I mean, I'm talking about it more in detail or

1201
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:48,920
too later.

1202
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 15: One was.

1203
01:12:51,399 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 13: A documentary about a little kid who claimed that he

1204
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:56,720
had passed life in Glasgow.

1205
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:58,399
Speaker 17: He was just an all, you know, all for an

1206
01:12:58,520 --> 01:12:59,199
ordinary family.

1207
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,039
Speaker 4: That was an interesting one. The other one was a

1208
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:03,720
guy who.

1209
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 13: Claimed that his dreams predicted the future as an artists

1210
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:07,560
soon paying pictures.

1211
01:13:09,199 --> 01:13:10,319
Speaker 4: That one again was.

1212
01:13:10,359 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 17: Quite intriguing overall, not powerfully enough favorites.

1213
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,239
Speaker 34: To spy, but to leave me kind of saying, that's intriguing.

1214
01:13:17,319 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 17: I'm not sure what's going on there.

1215
01:13:19,119 --> 01:13:19,399
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1216
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,359
Speaker 33: So sadly, I've never had a paramom intereers nothing in

1217
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:28,359
the look we're talking about. I got into the paranormal

1218
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:31,000
because the late eighties I think I was I was

1219
01:13:31,039 --> 01:13:33,880
basing somebody and a little mud.

1220
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 4: She woke up.

1221
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 17: She goes like this an amazing experience much.

1222
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:45,640
Speaker 13: And so the next day should go up to come

1223
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,720
on some mysteries in the Leaf and London mysteries.

1224
01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 2: I walked in and as it wow.

1225
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 17: So I spent a lawnsom that night Harry card book

1226
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,439
name going.

1227
01:13:57,279 --> 01:13:58,159
Speaker 39: Into it that way.

1228
01:13:59,159 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 4: At that point I econist.

1229
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,239
Speaker 13: I wanted to do psychology, so I did a conversion,

1230
01:14:05,279 --> 01:14:08,319
of course, and a couple of years later was looking

1231
01:14:08,399 --> 01:14:09,560
at a PhD topic.

1232
01:14:10,399 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 17: It's going to do with emotions.

1233
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,560
Speaker 13: I'm across this strange bunk in the book doing stuff

1234
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,399
about common advises and power.

1235
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:20,399
Speaker 28: Belief and looked as up that's you read the moment belief.

1236
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,560
Speaker 4: So I applied to Chris and some of the stuff

1237
01:14:24,279 --> 01:14:29,079
I think. Yeah, so I love going your visual wise

1238
01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:30,239
and did the interest your stuff.

1239
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 28: Yeah, so that's how I.

1240
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,119
Speaker 4: Went to the paranorm. It's the psychology of.

1241
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,119
Speaker 2: And it's just it's just really sets here and it plays.

1242
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,199
Speaker 4: A bit certainly thing me from a psychology.

1243
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,640
Speaker 13: So that's that's the background for me, the paranorm it

1244
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:52,000
as a as a young trained in something from the

1245
01:14:53,399 --> 01:14:56,399
populous view when because of the sers by an end

1246
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:01,600
Off and Dad just under there. It's so what apples

1247
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:02,159
you now.

1248
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 4: Not her pace? I think that a partner in this pace.

1249
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: I s hopefully on stand tomorrow I'll get a soul.

1250
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.

1251
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 40: Oh well, I can remember reading a lot of stuff

1252
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:31,600
as a child, particularly I worked around to my grandfathers

1253
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:35,279
and read you know, the Reader's Digest used to do

1254
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,479
right then books and.

1255
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 8: That I really aint the Surgeon with the Rusty Blade

1256
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,960
because there was a little rash of the sad scenes

1257
01:15:46,399 --> 01:15:51,800
of people just plunging rusty scissorsens come from and stuff.

1258
01:15:53,279 --> 01:15:57,000
They started booking at that and I had a quite

1259
01:15:57,039 --> 01:16:01,800
a few chl Monastery experiences as a team ager. The

1260
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:05,279
one that always struck me that I'll never get I

1261
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:10,199
used to play Albinson with me, doubt every week. I

1262
01:16:10,399 --> 01:16:12,680
used to play for teams of that where he used

1263
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:13,640
to go with him because he.

1264
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 17: Liked the exercise.

1265
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,600
Speaker 8: And we always weren't saying way to go Laisha Santo

1266
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:22,720
sort of upon back bridge over the railway, been there

1267
01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:25,800
hundreds of bludgers and hundreds of times, never even thought

1268
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:26,279
about it.

1269
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:34,600
Speaker 17: This rich and I'm with absolute tad. I will never

1270
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:39,199
forget that feeling. So stop the car, stop the car.

1271
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,279
Speaker 8: And we stopped the car and looked over the rich

1272
01:16:42,359 --> 01:16:44,399
and someone doing the three points and we were the

1273
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:45,760
slash strains in sin them.

1274
01:16:46,359 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 17: So that made me think there is something.

1275
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:53,159
Speaker 8: Going on here. Obviously it moot ghost because ghost of sexy.

1276
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:57,159
I was a ghost of sort of loot is. I

1277
01:16:57,319 --> 01:17:02,319
moved into academia because me and Steve Parsons went to

1278
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,239
a conference and basically all the academicsploin to.

1279
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 2: Us because we were just engaged ons from down the

1280
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:08,279
road sort.

1281
01:17:08,119 --> 01:17:13,399
Speaker 15: Of got in debris, and then they all started going,

1282
01:17:14,079 --> 01:17:17,359
so what about your PhD? So our name is fatal

1283
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,399
slip and started doing my pH D underpaul h. But

1284
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,199
then but we got there in the end, Well I

1285
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:27,800
did you book it off? I did something else, but yeah,

1286
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,319
got then in the end. So yeah, that's how we

1287
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,720
got into it. And that's one of the things that's

1288
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:36,039
still pants explained about.

1289
01:17:36,079 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 8: Half had to get to the experiences that I to

1290
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,560
this day plants explain brilliant.

1291
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1292
01:17:44,039 --> 01:17:48,359
Speaker 8: My family background is that there's those who've seen now

1293
01:17:48,399 --> 01:17:49,840
don't brilliant, but each and everything.

1294
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:52,560
Speaker 32: So my mum was a very responsible woman when you

1295
01:17:53,039 --> 01:17:56,479
watched horror movies, actually thought it was perfectly.

1296
01:17:56,119 --> 01:18:00,560
Speaker 8: Fine to tell the most pegg burning story. I've got

1297
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,960
things that actually were all should be real. And that

1298
01:18:04,119 --> 01:18:07,880
was my great aunties as well. So I grew up

1299
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,920
believing it all, hearing all of these stories. How you

1300
01:18:11,039 --> 01:18:14,079
genuine feried And there was the experience there must have

1301
01:18:14,079 --> 01:18:18,880
been imagination or so where I dreamt that I had

1302
01:18:19,319 --> 01:18:22,920
been apoltimized in my room. And I finally seemed up

1303
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,640
the carriage to say to it all right, or saying

1304
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:29,199
as you hear you might as well introduce yourself, and

1305
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:31,479
there was just as deep.

1306
01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 32: And glanced being laugh this off off off throughout the

1307
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:40,319
whole room, which was terrifying, but it morphed in a wakefulness.

1308
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:40,560
Speaker 2: So it was going.

1309
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 8: It was, it was so I was where it was

1310
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,600
a dream, but it was. It has a charity of

1311
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:51,680
the lucid dream. And since then, as an adopt that

1312
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:56,359
have noticably dreams and out of body experiences, I know

1313
01:18:56,479 --> 01:19:00,399
that it can be incredibly profoundly experienced. So I went

1314
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,600
from that to just reading a lot of in some

1315
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:07,239
kind of the and struct of amusing history and for fans,

1316
01:19:07,359 --> 01:19:08,600
pology and all that sort of thing.

1317
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 41: So I still find it's fascinating as I everty is

1318
01:19:14,199 --> 01:19:17,159
and having you had lots of funky experiencing myself, but

1319
01:19:17,319 --> 01:19:21,520
not leaving in the Superman for mechanism for them, that's

1320
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:22,680
been interesting too.

1321
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 8: I'm still interested in all sorts of something sort of

1322
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:28,720
fascinating pot to studying.

1323
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:29,119
Speaker 2: Them, want to learn.

1324
01:19:30,079 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 35: But is there anything that's still making me thinks?

1325
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: I don't think so much.

1326
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 8: I would actually quite like and I like to lean

1327
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,520
them not so I like to lean in ghosts. Frank

1328
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:42,279
you Adain, Thank you.

1329
01:19:42,359 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 20: Very much, right, Okay, so you going to open it

1330
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:48,960
up now, So everybody, if you have got a question,

1331
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,479
just say who you are and then microphone's over to you.

1332
01:19:54,279 --> 01:19:56,319
Speaker 4: It is it in person or is it to the

1333
01:19:56,399 --> 01:19:58,520
panel as a whole, and then present your question?

1334
01:19:59,239 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 8: Thank you?

1335
01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 4: Oh that's the hand i'd questions. Deborah only said.

1336
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:12,560
Speaker 2: The small put you can't.

1337
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:21,560
Speaker 4: About buying the BBC microking sorry.

1338
01:20:21,399 --> 01:20:21,680
Speaker 8: Saying that.

1339
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:28,119
Speaker 17: My creaking No, I'll avoid that more.

1340
01:20:28,199 --> 01:20:30,239
Speaker 4: I think, okay, I'll over spoil.

1341
01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:36,119
Speaker 28: Yeah, it's really hard, but people, what happens to you

1342
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:36,399
when you.

1343
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 4: Were nineteen, as you had any other experiences?

1344
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:42,199
Speaker 17: Nonsense?

1345
01:20:42,319 --> 01:20:44,359
Speaker 4: Really okay, it's not not that.

1346
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 8: Couldn't you discants.

1347
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:55,359
Speaker 4: Absolution? That excellent, right, and we're anymore, We've got all

1348
01:20:55,399 --> 01:20:55,760
there and.

1349
01:21:04,079 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 8: It's more intended. Can you favor that? Fankful that it

1350
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:15,359
serves to reinforce gender lawless and stamiotypes? I think if

1351
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:16,800
you dance and folk.

1352
01:21:21,079 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 3: Does it?

1353
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:25,199
Speaker 8: Does focal comfortable needs reflect it?

1354
01:21:25,399 --> 01:21:26,800
Speaker 2: Or does it some partly?

1355
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:27,119
Speaker 8: You know?

1356
01:21:27,239 --> 01:21:30,199
Speaker 2: When I love don't the kids aign the all questure off?

1357
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:34,239
Speaker 8: But they're kind of both to enforce each other. And yeah,

1358
01:21:34,359 --> 01:21:39,439
thankful does reinforce all sorts of believes only it's time

1359
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:43,279
of the enhastulations and wisdom. People don't people don't really

1360
01:21:43,359 --> 01:21:44,359
technical manuals.

1361
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:48,119
Speaker 42: They show stories, and it seems to be the way

1362
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:52,560
our brains really take things in and acclism and so

1363
01:21:53,399 --> 01:21:56,000
where there are gender laws and gender stereotypes, but all

1364
01:21:56,039 --> 01:21:57,920
other kinds of stereotypes.

1365
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:00,039
Speaker 8: That would be that would be where they are. I

1366
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:05,800
think the end Bazarian, particularly one with the stories that

1367
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,000
killed there was just linking that we learned the Pikes.

1368
01:22:09,119 --> 01:22:12,640
A lot of the part of the stories around Vanpoire

1369
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,000
always needs to be will in Pavel.

1370
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 32: Yeah, it's that was That's There are two strands of

1371
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:21,680
literary vampires.

1372
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 4: Really.

1373
01:22:22,119 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 32: There are the folklary vampires that come from Eastern Europe,

1374
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:28,359
but they're very very different to the literary vampires. Literary

1375
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:32,960
vampires were inspired why the stories can be further out

1376
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:36,159
of Eastern Europe from the Ulstan Empire in the east

1377
01:22:36,279 --> 01:22:39,039
eighteenth century, and then when the light in central we've

1378
01:22:39,039 --> 01:22:39,399
got these.

1379
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 8: You know, this is a very Florida vampire literature, a

1380
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,079
lot of which is awful, some of which is accolut.

1381
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 35: To curve, and especially because that then coincides with an

1382
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:54,640
era that was very repressed in every other way, and

1383
01:22:55,079 --> 01:22:58,159
as you could express any kind of passion and sexuality

1384
01:22:58,199 --> 01:23:02,800
and everything through this tale to the vamporism, and so

1385
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:03,720
I think it's.

1386
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 8: Probably less about vampire is about nineteenth century nidity. You know,

1387
01:23:10,039 --> 01:23:12,359
just using using aneis there's a lot of way of

1388
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,159
talking about parent relationships.

1389
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 4: What do you want the panel wants to expand or

1390
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:19,239
add to that?

1391
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:25,039
Speaker 13: Yeah, I was talking to so many years ago who

1392
01:23:25,119 --> 01:23:29,840
had done is a masters in Calcius psychology and specialized

1393
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:34,000
in brandslide and dragging ole and trains. That brand slide

1394
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:39,119
was pressedidisexual and the whole antire things that the desire

1395
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:40,239
the partner.

1396
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:45,319
Speaker 4: I think so.

1397
01:23:47,119 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 8: For you, yeah, yeah, there's a sort of the seal

1398
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,199
repression in nineteenth century literature is and then.

1399
01:23:55,560 --> 01:24:03,279
Speaker 2: Speaking of Clok sarg bother deconstructors conn, I.

1400
01:24:03,319 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 17: Think there's.

1401
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:10,039
Speaker 8: Speaking of pieteenth central literary vampires as well, so off

1402
01:24:10,079 --> 01:24:14,079
of them, certainly in modern academia of this, there's a

1403
01:24:14,199 --> 01:24:17,920
tendency to read all included sort of handy guide or

1404
01:24:18,039 --> 01:24:26,199
railway umpires as representations of repressed sexuality, whether that's cecosexuality

1405
01:24:26,199 --> 01:24:29,520
and manosexuality. I think there's also a really interesting thread

1406
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:34,640
in a lot of Irish vampires, including jess As Chavn

1407
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:39,159
with those Carl Miller, which is now mainly celebrated as

1408
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:43,000
a suffic reading. But also it's very interesting that lots

1409
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,239
of vampires one miss period were used as not just

1410
01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,840
as representations of folk glory beliefs and trying to figure

1411
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:52,359
out religiously where a lot of the authors stoop, but

1412
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:58,159
certainly in Ireland, a lot of different political ideas and

1413
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,960
a lot of right through to the Easter or rising

1414
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,720
Inland to nineteen nineteen minutes, twentieth century vampires are kind

1415
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:12,119
of like the hearts of this underground culture of question

1416
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:18,680
political aggression. There's there's a lot of obsity landlords and.

1417
01:25:20,159 --> 01:25:22,319
Speaker 43: Very dull things that are to do with the land

1418
01:25:22,359 --> 01:25:27,680
ownership between Hangliss and the original landowners that we see

1419
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,880
discourse exclusively three representations of vanpoism, which might not be

1420
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:36,199
as sexy as ghosts or romance empires, but it certainly

1421
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:37,039
shows that.

1422
01:25:37,039 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 8: The vampire is a multifaceted sool it's just a family

1423
01:25:41,119 --> 01:25:44,399
champion of top pat chunk of really lind there. So also,

1424
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:46,479
you're so likely the.

1425
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 5: IR's also okayre household.

1426
01:25:55,159 --> 01:25:57,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's cool.

1427
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 6: Excellent, righting some between.

1428
01:26:07,119 --> 01:26:11,520
Speaker 5: He wants to answer it if anyone current paranormal investigation

1429
01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:16,439
is going to change science, what is that for investigation?

1430
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 8: And we keep.

1431
01:26:25,399 --> 01:26:29,159
Speaker 1: A w one and the big guy returns from lunch

1432
01:26:29,279 --> 01:26:32,239
to sit right in front of my field of view

1433
01:26:32,399 --> 01:26:37,359
when there's probably one hundred and fifty seats in the theater. Well,

1434
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:39,159
that's a coincidence there.

1435
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:45,079
Speaker 44: This is with the data, and I think it's going

1436
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:49,000
to look missing anything what would be stuff from well

1437
01:26:49,119 --> 01:26:53,600
controls of orange studies where ruled out other plations.

1438
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 34: It's on the one hand, if you know the people

1439
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:01,920
with this, see if you remember all that stuff, we

1440
01:27:02,079 --> 01:27:05,159
also know sometimes you will just make.

1441
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 13: Stuff up, and so the undosal evidence it's intriguing, but

1442
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,399
it's never going to be enough on its own.

1443
01:27:11,239 --> 01:27:14,399
Speaker 17: To commits someone like me that might be and missing out,

1444
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:15,960
you know, because these things are true.

1445
01:27:16,039 --> 01:27:18,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, this isn't enough in issue.

1446
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:22,319
Speaker 13: But in terms of the kind of experimental stuff, I'd

1447
01:27:22,319 --> 01:27:23,960
say there's one or two things within.

1448
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 34: Parapsychology that skeptics don't have definitely a conclusive counter explanation score.

1449
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:35,800
I suppose I believe that ask things like the cancel studies.

1450
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 17: I think there's been interested in something interesting.

1451
01:27:39,039 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 4: In its store.

1452
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 22: The children who causes spontaneous past life memories.

1453
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 17: Present it in an effects. One of the areas like

1454
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,640
that where you know, I know that I don't feel.

1455
01:27:54,079 --> 01:27:56,399
There's other areas where I think, yes, we could be

1456
01:27:56,399 --> 01:28:01,039
pretty sure. Right well, there are all so more than

1457
01:28:01,119 --> 01:28:03,279
one where I wouldn't claim that.

1458
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 2: The sketches from counters donations.

1459
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 17: So also to be able to possibility.

1460
01:28:10,039 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 4: That you like your arms. The message, I don't think

1461
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:14,640
one thing will shame.

1462
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:15,279
Speaker 2: It's the best.

1463
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 13: I think our definition of science will change and that

1464
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:21,000
will incorporate things.

1465
01:28:21,079 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 2: But the moment can't expland either literally want this year.

1466
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:30,600
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think it's a revealing it's like that's

1467
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:33,800
shacking my board. But I think I completely entrenched.

1468
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:39,079
Speaker 28: I think more botanly societies mention science will change.

1469
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 4: People. I mean the sake example, you know that's the

1470
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:50,239
Victorian age and that is amazing. Right, so there are

1471
01:28:50,319 --> 01:28:51,960
things that happened in fum you.

1472
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:52,319
Speaker 8: Having that.

1473
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 13: I'm saying that can happen yet, and the argue for

1474
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:00,000
your time that I think it will be more peace

1475
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:06,039
and studies than changed. The said keep on removed from

1476
01:29:06,119 --> 01:29:08,159
the more from the parallel.

1477
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:10,399
Speaker 17: Into the more power down.

1478
01:29:12,119 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 8: It's yeah, I mean you sort of said someone about

1479
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,760
like Christ to say you can number back the play

1480
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:21,159
with strum.

1481
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:22,399
Speaker 28: You just can't do.

1482
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:27,239
Speaker 8: It's just spont and we know we forgot what's it

1483
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:30,359
like basically policing it down and so right, how the

1484
01:29:30,399 --> 01:29:34,680
ghosts things? So you never going to be like, screwed.

1485
01:29:34,319 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 2: It in moreuse.

1486
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:43,279
Speaker 22: I've never roved to the extent that I mean, there's

1487
01:29:43,279 --> 01:29:45,000
anyone where I'm going.

1488
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:49,520
Speaker 13: To say either I think so skeptical, what would it

1489
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,199
either might proudly back over the lining it and.

1490
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,479
Speaker 17: Just various responsibilities.

1491
01:29:57,359 --> 01:30:00,239
Speaker 34: One interesting thing that happened while I was kind of

1492
01:30:00,359 --> 01:30:01,720
thinking about I was putting that bit.

1493
01:30:02,199 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 17: Something told their own story.

1494
01:30:05,239 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 13: Of how they started off as a bit atheist and skeptic,

1495
01:30:08,399 --> 01:30:10,640
and then the partner had died, and.

1496
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 34: Then there's a load of things happened that she ended

1497
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:17,600
up decided it must be signed from some sort of afterlife,

1498
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,039
and that was enough to dividence her not only to

1499
01:30:20,279 --> 01:30:22,880
believe in the paranorm but also to believe in God again,

1500
01:30:23,119 --> 01:30:23,319
you know.

1501
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 17: And then I got to say I was skeptics myself.

1502
01:30:27,079 --> 01:30:29,279
Speaker 2: She was a proper skeptic in the first place, you know,

1503
01:30:29,359 --> 01:30:30,760
that's why it happened.

1504
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 17: But and then talk about how many of you have

1505
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:35,760
heard David Marx?

1506
01:30:36,159 --> 01:30:36,640
Speaker 2: Any of you?

1507
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, you like David Marx.

1508
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 34: I used to use him as an example in my

1509
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,319
a honistic psychology lectures as saying, kind of how can

1510
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:48,960
intelligent people have got the same body of evidence and

1511
01:30:49,039 --> 01:30:52,920
come in sort of diametrically opposed conclusions, or the one

1512
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,479
I had liked rade him saying that the evidence is there,

1513
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,000
it's all improved. It's just, you know, sciences are too

1514
01:30:59,159 --> 01:31:03,640
kind of prejudice about knowledge, et cetera, et cetera, build extreme.

1515
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:06,000
Speaker 8: And I used to give David Marks as the example

1516
01:31:06,079 --> 01:31:07,039
because I thought it was.

1517
01:31:07,039 --> 01:31:09,079
Speaker 17: Being a really quite extremely skeptic.

1518
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:14,079
Speaker 13: Well, anyway, in his latest book he's actually a radly

1519
01:31:14,399 --> 01:31:17,079
could you could not accused him of not being a

1520
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:21,079
proper skeptic. He founded New Zealand Skeptics, he wrote a

1521
01:31:21,199 --> 01:31:24,880
classic of the skeptical literature, The Psychology of the Psychic.

1522
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,079
Because you really deepotten too or each other, etcetera, etcetera.

1523
01:31:29,039 --> 01:31:31,880
So no question sold this guy was a proper hard

1524
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:32,800
line skeptic.

1525
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,079
Speaker 8: He in his latest book, has shifted his position.

1526
01:31:36,159 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 22: He's still not impressed by the laboratory effort at all,

1527
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:40,960
but a series.

1528
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 13: Of things happened in his life personally moved into a

1529
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:48,600
position where he says, maybe these things do happen spontaneously

1530
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,359
in real life, but you know he should be likely

1531
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:52,439
captured the laboratory.

1532
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:54,640
Speaker 34: So it's very much one of the lines that you stay.

1533
01:31:55,039 --> 01:31:58,399
And again he was a trying kind of trying ptuf

1534
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:00,159
in the myself. You know, it's what if I on

1535
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:03,960
the receiving end of the stings or I don't know

1536
01:32:04,199 --> 01:32:05,760
it may well do you know this.

1537
01:32:06,239 --> 01:32:09,119
Speaker 13: If a series of weird what could be a stain

1538
01:32:09,239 --> 01:32:14,079
noise concidence, but is that there is a nation watch

1539
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:15,199
in a bit.

1540
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:18,079
Speaker 17: That's gonna be spring.

1541
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:23,159
Speaker 8: But you've also hits on the other points in the

1542
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,359
Something may convince you, it won't convince that.

1543
01:32:28,119 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 45: Something may convince me, It won't convince that.

1544
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:32,399
Speaker 17: And that's so pulferable in gods.

1545
01:32:34,079 --> 01:32:42,000
Speaker 28: Just out you mentioned that eighteen yea, it's not so

1546
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,119
sis skeptic and belie.

1547
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:49,319
Speaker 4: The get that some.

1548
01:32:51,319 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 26: Your perfect and a real man and animals that thirty

1549
01:33:00,039 --> 01:33:01,479
looking still bake as adults.

1550
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:06,520
Speaker 28: This diversity the criteria for methods are being here.

1551
01:33:06,399 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 46: To I've been good upon in the last four years,

1552
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,680
and yet there's still been about what the outcome is.

1553
01:33:13,039 --> 01:33:16,399
So the skeptic will say, yes, there's something going on

1554
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,960
and it's not and believes it's listed, and yet the

1555
01:33:20,039 --> 01:33:21,479
debate being centered.

1556
01:33:21,159 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 28: On or of the evidence, on that quality of the methods.

1557
01:33:25,279 --> 01:33:27,319
Speaker 2: In the moment episode, I see, it's just like.

1558
01:33:29,039 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 28: This is what we'll do that, and then suddenly Old

1559
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:36,479
Puss changed, so this is this is what it's good side.

1560
01:33:40,359 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 4: I could I couldn't bang on about this. I'm not.

1561
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 17: You, okay, I was industry.

1562
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 8: She wants to bipart. Actually in the diametrics, I mean,

1563
01:33:54,840 --> 01:34:02,079
as you about the paranormal one and their experiences, there.

1564
01:34:02,079 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 15: Is an mountain thing and people are quite extreams in

1565
01:34:07,039 --> 01:34:07,840
the beliefs.

1566
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:12,199
Speaker 8: And there's a guy who's a linguist in America called

1567
01:34:13,159 --> 01:34:18,279
George black Off, which I talked about, and he basically

1568
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:23,439
says that the fast ounce.

1569
01:34:23,079 --> 01:34:26,279
Speaker 15: Offt your model of the world basically, So if you

1570
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:30,119
have a model of how you see the world, you're

1571
01:34:30,239 --> 01:34:34,479
going to it's very hard. It's it's almost a hard

1572
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:39,960
shell to show that unless it's through experience. And I

1573
01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:42,680
think for a lot of paranormal.

1574
01:34:42,239 --> 01:34:45,520
Speaker 8: You have to experience it to allow it in and

1575
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:50,880
to change by it. But at the same time, it's

1576
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:56,079
amazing how powerful that is on both you know, Mont

1577
01:34:56,119 --> 01:34:59,920
just saying this will never see it. But pauland I

1578
01:35:01,119 --> 01:35:02,800
we did our eyes sort.

1579
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:04,600
Speaker 17: Of contributed to study.

1580
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:10,439
Speaker 15: We round about moments againically where we look at was

1581
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:12,840
looking at a belief in the paranormal.

1582
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:20,159
Speaker 8: And he had a swear he was sitting believers, as

1583
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:20,880
he called them.

1584
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:24,560
Speaker 15: I'm sure what that means, but believes in the paranormals,

1585
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:27,520
sitting in from the computer, and there would be sort

1586
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:30,039
of slog and then figures would have merged out of

1587
01:35:30,119 --> 01:35:32,720
this smile and as soon as they saw something, they

1588
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:35,279
asked to his key on the keyboard.

1589
01:35:36,079 --> 01:35:38,039
Speaker 6: And what happened with that?

1590
01:35:40,159 --> 01:35:43,159
Speaker 17: He also got people that didn't believe.

1591
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:46,239
Speaker 15: People can do this a lot better than I can,

1592
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:47,760
starting at me.

1593
01:35:49,239 --> 01:35:51,239
Speaker 2: But but what the other of that was that.

1594
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:59,039
Speaker 8: The belief were not that significant. It wasn't really a

1595
01:35:59,279 --> 01:36:03,239
very strong study from what's very manly. But what was

1596
01:36:03,319 --> 01:36:06,000
really interesting, of course looking for this, so it was.

1597
01:36:06,239 --> 01:36:11,359
Speaker 15: It was which is fair enough, but the normal leavers

1598
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:13,760
didn't see stuff that was actually there.

1599
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:16,319
Speaker 6: So it's really interesting.

1600
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 8: This is this.

1601
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 17: And I agree.

1602
01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:23,640
Speaker 34: I think you know, one of the under researched areas

1603
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:27,399
is virus is on art cetics. I totally agree because

1604
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:30,920
most of the research on the psychology of paranorl releases

1605
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,920
carried out by skepties like me, And so you're kind

1606
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,359
to say, well, is this cognitive virus and it's stronger

1607
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:40,199
relievers and non believers. But I think there's a good

1608
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:44,159
a lot more research where you set things up to say,

1609
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,000
you know, you can imagine.

1610
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:51,079
Speaker 17: Doing a group, especially these days with the synces we've got.

1611
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:54,399
Speaker 34: It is for editing videos et cetera, et cetera, and

1612
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:57,159
a look at whether skeptics were can just deny.

1613
01:36:58,439 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 17: Deeficularly didn't happen in the video.

1614
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 4: We know that it works around.

1615
01:37:04,119 --> 01:37:07,199
Speaker 17: That actually didn't happen. Well, it's very rare.

1616
01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:10,359
Speaker 47: Now.

1617
01:37:10,399 --> 01:37:13,319
Speaker 1: That was my opportunity to ask Professor Chris French about

1618
01:37:13,399 --> 01:37:16,800
his experience with Gordon Smith, the medium on This Morning

1619
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:20,359
program that was aired some years ago on ITV. It

1620
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:23,319
was a test between him and Gordon who could get

1621
01:37:23,359 --> 01:37:27,600
the most accurate reading, with Professor Chris French doing cold

1622
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:32,399
reading and Gordon doing his mediumship, which Chris alleged was

1623
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:36,520
just cold reading well who came out on tops. I

1624
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:39,720
think Chris French wasn't really prepared to say, but let's

1625
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:40,399
take a look at it.

1626
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:48,920
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, we've got a question. Thank you.

1627
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:49,560
Speaker 22: Hi.

1628
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:50,359
Speaker 2: I'm Neil.

1629
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 48: Just going back a little bit a few years for

1630
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:56,520
Chris on this morning program. I think it was he

1631
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,840
was on with Gordon Smith. I think it was talking

1632
01:38:00,119 --> 01:38:03,199
how mediumship because he's a medium for those that don't there,

1633
01:38:04,199 --> 01:38:08,760
and I think, if I'm correcting this, it was about

1634
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:13,199
Barnum statements. Mediums make Barnum statements. Are you still kind

1635
01:38:13,239 --> 01:38:15,159
of got that impression of Gordon Smith that you're doing that?

1636
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:17,159
Speaker 49: Yeah.

1637
01:38:17,159 --> 01:38:19,640
Speaker 17: I wasn't particularly talking about Gordon. I just got very

1638
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:22,279
well with Gordon John hills Lap in the green room

1639
01:38:22,319 --> 01:38:22,960
before he went on.

1640
01:38:24,239 --> 01:38:27,039
Speaker 13: I remember once we were we were comparing notes on

1641
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,359
the kind of those ridiculous lines we've ever heard from

1642
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:34,760
from mediums, and he did feel along with one session.

1643
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 17: You know, and the media was there, did anybody had

1644
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:41,039
to cross a road to get it?

1645
01:38:46,199 --> 01:38:46,239
Speaker 8: No?

1646
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:51,359
Speaker 34: I mean again, I was not particularly accusing him directly.

1647
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,239
You know what I did do on that prono he's

1648
01:38:54,239 --> 01:38:56,199
the one and if you know, I pass myself off

1649
01:38:56,199 --> 01:38:56,760
as a psyche.

1650
01:38:57,000 --> 01:39:01,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the one. And that was quite an.

1651
01:39:01,119 --> 01:39:04,079
Speaker 13: Interesting experience because basically you are the researcher of filled

1652
01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:06,840
me up. I mean, there's more of cold reading than

1653
01:39:07,039 --> 01:39:09,399
just barn and statements. But barn and state it's are

1654
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:11,439
very beautiful padding out reading.

1655
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:13,600
Speaker 6: And then the.

1656
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 13: Research is replying such and me they were going to

1657
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:19,800
be doing this sighter on mediums and psychics. I'd obviously

1658
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:23,079
start hanging on about cold reading, and the researcher says, oh,

1659
01:39:23,159 --> 01:39:23,760
that sounds great.

1660
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 4: Can you come on and do it for us?

1661
01:39:25,039 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 17: And I think, oh god, no, it doesn't always work,

1662
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:29,560
you know, but she twisted my arms.

1663
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:32,600
Speaker 34: She'd got me to do it, and yeah, you know,

1664
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,880
I am now an officially approved psychic.

1665
01:39:35,239 --> 01:39:39,199
Speaker 13: It wasn't a question of trying to make that person,

1666
01:39:39,279 --> 01:39:41,800
that volunteer who'd been told that I was a psychic

1667
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:42,520
called sinny.

1668
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:43,560
Speaker 2: Far from it.

1669
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 13: It was just if you hear about these techniques, I

1670
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:48,199
think a lot of buildings that I would be fooled

1671
01:39:48,199 --> 01:39:48,479
by that.

1672
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,520
Speaker 4: But yes, they are very powerful techniques.

1673
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:52,239
Speaker 34: I mean, I'm not particularly good, but I managed to

1674
01:39:52,279 --> 01:39:54,479
pass myself off as a psychic on TV.

1675
01:39:57,399 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 17: Exactly.

1676
01:39:57,880 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 4: I'm in an.

1677
01:40:00,119 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 13: You know, they didn't do this stuff, even when you

1678
01:40:03,039 --> 01:40:06,960
know theody using cold read even be watching the thing.

1679
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:07,079
Speaker 17: Could how didn't they get?

1680
01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:07,640
Speaker 8: You know?

1681
01:40:09,079 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 17: But those techniques are are very powerful.

1682
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:14,279
Speaker 34: And of course now you've also got if you're over

1683
01:40:14,399 --> 01:40:17,680
hot reading, you've got social media where you can find

1684
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:18,680
out an oplob.

1685
01:40:18,319 --> 01:40:20,359
Speaker 4: About psibly before the put on for the reading.

1686
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:22,680
Speaker 17: So the only way you could.

1687
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 4: Properly test that is on the property control the additions,

1688
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,239
which is I was just gonna say, which is what.

1689
01:40:31,039 --> 01:40:33,119
Speaker 6: Sary Schwartz do was in his laboratory.

1690
01:40:33,319 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, not too convinced by Schwartz's stuff at all, There aren't.

1691
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 8: There's some more.

1692
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:41,079
Speaker 17: There's some more convincing evidence of that, you know, from.

1693
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:43,039
Speaker 2: Your point of view, and be beber point of view.

1694
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:51,239
Speaker 17: Than the Gary Schwartz stuff, and again replicate that stuff

1695
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:53,319
and then see where we go from there.

1696
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:56,560
Speaker 1: Who won in the competition between you and Gordon?

1697
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:59,000
Speaker 4: Then well.

1698
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:01,760
Speaker 17: Who did they vote? Call?

1699
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:08,159
Speaker 48: All right, thank you.

1700
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at how you can apparently four

1701
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:15,279
people with general cold readings, according to Chris from this

1702
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:18,520
segment of ITV's This Morning.

1703
01:41:21,039 --> 01:41:21,199
Speaker 14: Time.

1704
01:41:21,279 --> 01:41:24,920
Speaker 16: Now for the results of our psychic challenge, we welcome

1705
01:41:25,039 --> 01:41:29,600
Anna and Angela, who have had readings all morning from

1706
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:30,840
two psychics.

1707
01:41:31,399 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 50: Well, psychic one.

1708
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:37,680
Speaker 16: Is Chris, who you thought was called Derek, and psychic

1709
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,600
two is Gordon, who is called Gordon. And we'll be

1710
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:44,439
meeting them in just a second. But first, ladies, how

1711
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:46,760
have you got on? Anna? What did you think of

1712
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:47,640
today's readings?

1713
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:50,720
Speaker 47: I thought the first guy was quite business like and

1714
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:56,720
he was called whereas Gordon, I fold he was much

1715
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:59,920
more in tune with spirits and me, and I thought

1716
01:42:00,119 --> 01:42:02,039
his answer, you know, he guessed a lot of things

1717
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:02,760
very accurately.

1718
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:07,119
Speaker 16: So Gordon, you felt, was altogether slightly better. Yes, okay,

1719
01:42:07,279 --> 01:42:09,079
and Angela, what did you make of the two of them?

1720
01:42:09,119 --> 01:42:12,000
Speaker 49: I had to say the same. The first one very

1721
01:42:12,079 --> 01:42:16,760
business like and very generalized. I felt Gordon I felt

1722
01:42:17,159 --> 01:42:20,439
picked up straight away, straight away on.

1723
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:24,840
Speaker 16: But in terms of accuracy, how accurate were both of

1724
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:25,319
the Manna?

1725
01:42:26,479 --> 01:42:28,079
Speaker 14: Well, I think the first guy was fine because he

1726
01:42:28,199 --> 01:42:32,159
was accurate on really quite mundane things like my washing

1727
01:42:32,239 --> 01:42:32,840
machine breaking, do.

1728
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:33,000
Speaker 49: You know what?

1729
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 14: It wasn't that interesting, Whereas the second guy was very

1730
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:40,159
much more in tune with people from the past, you know,

1731
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:45,159
my husband, children, So therefore I think, you know, they

1732
01:42:45,159 --> 01:42:47,359
were both sort of accurate but the second guy was

1733
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:48,119
much more interesting.

1734
01:42:48,319 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 49: Okay, and Angela, you felt this guy in the same Yeah,

1735
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:55,680
very accurate, well factory in fact, the second interesting results.

1736
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 51: Yes, well, it's time to bring on our two psychics,

1737
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:04,399
Gordon Smith and Derek O'Connor in your come both of you.

1738
01:43:04,920 --> 01:43:07,800
What we didn't tell Anna and Angela is that is

1739
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:10,880
that Derek O'Connor is actually not a psychic, but in

1740
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:12,800
fact so the country's leading skeptic.

1741
01:43:13,119 --> 01:43:15,079
Speaker 8: And he said, Chris French, which.

1742
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 7: Is why you were blind for face, sorry about that,

1743
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:24,760
which is quite interesting because I think the summing up

1744
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:28,880
of both our ladies there said that Gordon, you went

1745
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:32,279
straight to the heart of the matter, you know much

1746
01:43:32,399 --> 01:43:33,399
more in tune.

1747
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:36,760
Speaker 51: And Chris, you've been on here before saying listen, you

1748
01:43:36,800 --> 01:43:40,800
can cold read anybody, but you've been Suster's being a

1749
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:41,359
bit general.

1750
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:44,680
Speaker 52: My feeling was that the first reading went a lot

1751
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:46,760
better than the second one. I mean, I wasn't you know,

1752
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:49,279
there were a few times. There was quite a few

1753
01:43:49,319 --> 01:43:51,000
things I came up with for you that you saought. Oh,

1754
01:43:51,119 --> 01:43:53,479
they said, that's good and you and admittedly it was

1755
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,800
all fairly mundane stuff. I'm not at all so I mean,

1756
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,439
the reading I did with you, I came out, I

1757
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:03,000
thought that didn't go very well. I mean, I'm not

1758
01:44:03,039 --> 01:44:06,279
at all surprised that Gordon did a better job than

1759
01:44:06,359 --> 01:44:08,760
me job doing it for you.

1760
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 17: He does it day in, day out.

1761
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:10,920
Speaker 8: That's what he does. You know.

1762
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:12,920
Speaker 52: I'm kind of trying this after you know, reading a

1763
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:14,439
couple of books on it and trying on a few

1764
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:17,560
people and so on. Overall, I was I was kind of,

1765
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:19,479
you know, I was quite happy with my performance with you,

1766
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:27,760
even though it was all the things that you would

1767
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,119
like to do, the ambitions that you've got that you've

1768
01:44:30,199 --> 01:44:34,800
not really made as much progress with as you like, some.

1769
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:35,319
Speaker 49: Kind of.

1770
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:42,640
Speaker 53: Kitchen malfunction, and about an unfinished book as well, some

1771
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:48,319
kind of an event coming up soon that you've got

1772
01:44:48,439 --> 01:44:49,560
quite a big part to play.

1773
01:44:50,279 --> 01:44:54,159
Speaker 8: A hundred percent sold him, but certainly little things.

1774
01:44:54,439 --> 01:44:58,399
Speaker 54: Yes, the name of Kenny or Kennedy actually calls forward.

1775
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:00,279
So if you go back to the year two and

1776
01:45:00,359 --> 01:45:02,600
it was a really important time for you, I've seen

1777
01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:03,920
a computer.

1778
01:45:04,159 --> 01:45:05,600
Speaker 17: Some just put a computer in front.

1779
01:45:05,359 --> 01:45:05,720
Speaker 8: Of me here.

1780
01:45:06,119 --> 01:45:07,680
Speaker 17: I've also talked to little bit in New York.

1781
01:45:07,880 --> 01:45:10,640
Speaker 54: You remember, I've said that to you because it's important

1782
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:13,079
and it's to do with a working thing not being

1783
01:45:13,119 --> 01:45:13,560
in New York.

1784
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:15,680
Speaker 55: But I feel as other's messages going back and forward,

1785
01:45:16,119 --> 01:45:19,199
you've got a lot of things. He's very accurate actually

1786
01:45:19,239 --> 01:45:23,079
with a lot of things. And yeah, he was definitely

1787
01:45:23,359 --> 01:45:24,479
much more I think in tune.

1788
01:45:26,399 --> 01:45:26,560
Speaker 8: Right.

1789
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:29,720
Speaker 16: Well, here is Anna and you were talking to Chris.

1790
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:33,159
First of all, you gave yourself the name Derek O'Connor

1791
01:45:33,399 --> 01:45:37,239
because O'Connor sounds like you're conning them, and to me,

1792
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:40,720
well that's a whole other story now.

1793
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 8: Then he said you were quite ambitious.

1794
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 16: Yes, yes, bubbly at a party, need a good sorting

1795
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:57,520
out around the home. Can see Now this is interesting

1796
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:00,199
because I can see generalized things and people say, yes,

1797
01:46:00,199 --> 01:46:02,039
I'm bubbly at a party. Yes, I'm rather you know,

1798
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:04,760
but can you can see water on the floor in

1799
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:08,359
the kitchen, a kitchen malfunction and lorsh maching did break

1800
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:09,520
a couple of weeks ago.

1801
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:14,159
Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe I'm psychic more than you thought.

1802
01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:17,520
Speaker 16: You have a boy and a girl and they missed

1803
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:18,079
out another one.

1804
01:46:18,159 --> 01:46:19,760
Speaker 8: All right, so you have another little girl.

1805
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 16: There was an occasion when you regretted something good general question. Yeah,

1806
01:46:26,760 --> 01:46:30,399
photos haven't been put in an album that was obvious. Yeah,

1807
01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:32,600
it said at the time, it wasn't obvious. It is

1808
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:35,920
now the name John comes to mind and the date

1809
01:46:36,079 --> 01:46:37,560
twenty six is coming through.

1810
01:46:38,159 --> 01:46:40,199
Speaker 14: Well, that was quite good because that is a friend's

1811
01:46:40,319 --> 01:46:43,159
husband and it's their daughter's birthday on the twenty sixth.

1812
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,119
Speaker 2: So why do you think I did badly?

1813
01:46:47,079 --> 01:46:49,199
Speaker 52: Why do you pick John and twenty six because there's

1814
01:46:49,279 --> 01:46:51,840
John's a very common name. Very few people wouldn't know

1815
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:55,760
of John. The twenty six is a Saturday, a couple

1816
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:59,119
of months, a couple of weeks ahead, quite lightly that

1817
01:46:59,199 --> 01:47:00,640
there is something, but it is a get I mean

1818
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:03,039
it was a guess you said, no, I'd have tried

1819
01:47:03,119 --> 01:47:03,680
to twist it.

1820
01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:05,079
Speaker 17: Around fish.

1821
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:07,119
Speaker 4: General fishing.

1822
01:47:07,199 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 51: So this is this is something that you've been doing

1823
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:11,239
for a very long time. This is how do you

1824
01:47:11,359 --> 01:47:13,520
How do you see it when you're reading someone? How

1825
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:14,039
do you see it?

1826
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:17,159
Speaker 54: I get the situation was very different from you because

1827
01:47:17,319 --> 01:47:19,520
obviously the ladies were blame forwarded and it's you know,

1828
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:22,399
it's not something that's common to me to set every

1829
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,560
blamefolded people. But you just have to try and feel

1830
01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:29,279
tune into your feelings, and that's why I would pick

1831
01:47:29,359 --> 01:47:32,279
up on any emotional thing that the foster lady I

1832
01:47:32,359 --> 01:47:34,319
didn't feel there was a great need to have a

1833
01:47:34,359 --> 01:47:37,199
setting with the medium. The second lady here I certainly

1834
01:47:37,399 --> 01:47:39,760
did feel there was more emotional things and more healing need.

1835
01:47:40,399 --> 01:47:41,760
Speaker 51: You've got the name Kennedy coming through.

1836
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:42,479
Speaker 17: That's married name.

1837
01:47:42,680 --> 01:47:47,039
Speaker 51: Concern over a job, maybe a partner concerned to concern

1838
01:47:47,079 --> 01:47:51,359
with the job. Birthday has been very close just two

1839
01:47:51,359 --> 01:47:55,800
weeks ago. Last three years have been hard working for you. Yes,

1840
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:58,800
if it wasn't a few things would fall apart. Yes,

1841
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:04,319
but everyone would say that there's a birthday around Christmas. Actually,

1842
01:48:04,399 --> 01:48:06,560
husband's name John comes to mind. It's your friend's husband.

1843
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:10,000
Another job, So new build in North London, tried to move,

1844
01:48:10,039 --> 01:48:12,840
but you hate new builds. I'm seeing someone who passed

1845
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:15,880
away in your teens. You lost your in teens and

1846
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,760
you did say a lady, So on the on the whole,

1847
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:22,239
you're saying, yes that although you weren't, you wouldn't look

1848
01:48:22,359 --> 01:48:27,079
to go to someone for a reading. Okay, now that's well,

1849
01:48:27,119 --> 01:48:29,720
that's all pretty spot on. So let's let's have a

1850
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:31,319
look at at Angela's.

1851
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:36,560
Speaker 53: An accident about teenage years. I'm getting the number, the

1852
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:39,720
number two coming through with you, and well that's your

1853
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:44,640
house number and the name John. Again, I don't know

1854
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:45,319
if this makes any sense.

1855
01:48:45,359 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 2: You've got an unfinished book.

1856
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:51,800
Speaker 8: I thought it was quite general. Really, my my reading

1857
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:53,560
is quite general, nothing specific.

1858
01:48:54,079 --> 01:48:55,680
Speaker 54: I've gone along with terms I feel as I want

1859
01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:55,920
to go to.

1860
01:48:56,119 --> 01:48:57,560
Speaker 8: Was the East end of London.

1861
01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:00,479
Speaker 54: A strong connection with that name Angela or angel But

1862
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,239
there's a reason for it, and I feel whether it's

1863
01:49:03,279 --> 01:49:04,920
the neme or whether it's the song, I don't know.

1864
01:49:05,159 --> 01:49:08,319
I've got to talk about a new house. Let's talk

1865
01:49:08,319 --> 01:49:11,119
about a new house or suddenly moved in your house

1866
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:14,800
two thousand and three. I've got to go back then

1867
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:16,159
and it's a real emotional tank.

1868
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:19,359
Speaker 49: I'm just quite overwhelmed with it, really, I'm just trying

1869
01:49:19,399 --> 01:49:20,159
to still take it in.

1870
01:49:20,319 --> 01:49:21,439
Speaker 8: But he was just amazing.

1871
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:22,880
Speaker 39: Wow.

1872
01:49:23,079 --> 01:49:26,239
Speaker 16: Wow, Well, Chris, you admitted already that you're reading didn't

1873
01:49:26,319 --> 01:49:29,800
go according to plan, and Angela wasn't particularly impressed with you.

1874
01:49:30,439 --> 01:49:33,159
But Gordon, this is when you're at tears at the

1875
01:49:33,279 --> 01:49:35,319
end you see Gordon's work. I hope you don't mind

1876
01:49:35,399 --> 01:49:39,399
me saying this is with grief counseling absolutely, and you

1877
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:41,560
don't charge for your one to ones but you do

1878
01:49:42,319 --> 01:49:44,279
earn your living with your books, by the way, I

1879
01:49:44,359 --> 01:49:46,520
have one here, Gordon Smith, through my eyes. There you

1880
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:48,960
are through your books and the book tours. So that's

1881
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:51,359
how you earn your living. But this grief counseling is

1882
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,920
very interesting. And you hit foot Angela on the sense

1883
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:56,159
of a man with a heart condition.

1884
01:49:56,319 --> 01:49:59,920
Speaker 49: And this is your father, yes, that's right, who died

1885
01:50:00,039 --> 01:50:04,880
in December, and we weren't. You couldn't say goodbye, and

1886
01:50:07,199 --> 01:50:08,520
that came through quite clear.

1887
01:50:09,399 --> 01:50:13,039
Speaker 16: So for you, however, and whatever you think about the

1888
01:50:13,159 --> 01:50:18,199
work that Gordon does, did you feel somehow lighter by

1889
01:50:18,359 --> 01:50:19,960
hearing some news?

1890
01:50:20,159 --> 01:50:20,760
Speaker 8: Absolutely?

1891
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:23,920
Speaker 49: Absolutely, to say, have a sense of a man with

1892
01:50:24,039 --> 01:50:28,399
smiling eyes saying the words, singing the words, and your

1893
01:50:28,479 --> 01:50:30,159
baby Helen ready who would know that?

1894
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:33,720
Speaker 16: But you used to sing that for you, Yes you did,

1895
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:35,720
actually yes, But.

1896
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:38,119
Speaker 51: Both of you, gentlemen that say, I think you're both

1897
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:41,640
united in saying be careful how you part and where

1898
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:42,439
you part.

1899
01:50:42,319 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 28: With your money.

1900
01:50:43,239 --> 01:50:47,880
Speaker 56: Absolutely definitely, and especially somebody who's had a loss, because

1901
01:50:48,079 --> 01:50:51,079
you are lately to be drawn into somebody's advert or

1902
01:50:51,119 --> 01:50:54,199
something with us because they do pillion And I would

1903
01:50:54,199 --> 01:50:58,039
say trust the mediums by the charge and by that,

1904
01:50:58,119 --> 01:50:59,880
I mean those who don't overdo it.

1905
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:03,279
Speaker 8: So yeah, thank you, thank you.

1906
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 16: What I like is that they both really enjoy each

1907
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:06,479
other's work.

1908
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:09,319
Speaker 8: It's pretty genuine, very good.

1909
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:09,920
Speaker 16: Thank you.

1910
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:17,199
Speaker 4: Okay.

1911
01:51:17,279 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 1: Despite my not agreeing with Chris French's opinion of mediums

1912
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:24,119
saying they're all doing cold readings or giving out Barnum

1913
01:51:24,199 --> 01:51:26,199
type statements, I just want to stress that he's actually

1914
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:28,680
a very nice chap and Ben can back that up too,

1915
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:30,800
because Ben knows him better than I do. I only

1916
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:35,439
met him the once, so yeah, he's a great guy actually,

1917
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:39,199
But he's just likes to be cautiously on the skeptical side.

1918
01:51:39,199 --> 01:51:41,920
But he did actually say during the conference that you know,

1919
01:51:42,079 --> 01:51:45,000
he could be persuaded. He's somewhere lying out on the

1920
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:47,199
skeptical side, but there could be things that might pull

1921
01:51:47,279 --> 01:51:49,439
him back in to believe certain things that might be

1922
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:52,239
a little bit stranger than we're led to believe.

1923
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:58,039
Speaker 8: Just tenuously have something on to that I have found

1924
01:51:58,079 --> 01:52:04,199
that we mentioned out well. But historically and magicians in

1925
01:52:04,279 --> 01:52:08,880
particular than have made the best team bonkers. They're the

1926
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:12,800
best grend cats and the best mediums three times because

1927
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,680
arguably they weren't. We're seeing a lot more scientific rigor

1928
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:19,680
on their media bistic practices than those who are actually

1929
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,880
much like Facebook today. We often think that mediums have

1930
01:52:24,039 --> 01:52:30,319
things easier, and if they're for audulent obviously, but everything

1931
01:52:30,439 --> 01:52:32,800
is so easy accessible on our fingers, Whereas that has

1932
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:36,159
been a tradition for well over all fifty years. There's

1933
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:40,000
a lot of documentation I magicians of the nineteenth century,

1934
01:52:40,119 --> 01:52:45,720
people like William Marryott and David Abbotts, who toured countries.

1935
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:48,760
They taught the North America and in the UK, and

1936
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:52,600
would chronicle power. Different mediums would have central points of

1937
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:57,199
central notebooks and for repositories are things there's famosifically Boston,

1938
01:52:57,279 --> 01:52:59,760
which is Boston in America, not Boston in Mencoshire. I'm

1939
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:05,800
sure we'd still read there, but Boston did allow traveling

1940
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:10,600
medias who had this this knowledge of me to visit

1941
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:13,920
Beautia Blue Book for Boston, which was a list of

1942
01:53:14,039 --> 01:53:18,119
recent from the people, these beavements, things that would be plumpty,

1943
01:53:18,239 --> 01:53:21,319
quite unusual for out of towns to know. So there's

1944
01:53:21,399 --> 01:53:25,920
always been on this this archive, this sort of transient

1945
01:53:26,159 --> 01:53:29,600
archive that's developed over years and over the centuries. We

1946
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:33,239
broadly applied that was North America and Western Europe. So

1947
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:36,399
a lot of things, a lot of abilities that people

1948
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:43,199
like and like Organs nineties eighty two thousands to be medias,

1949
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:45,720
a lot of things that ever criticized for, but essentially

1950
01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:47,920
just working in not apartment state. But it's got a

1951
01:53:48,039 --> 01:53:53,760
great tradition of forging passing around information for financial gains.

1952
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:57,800
So I'm big regardless of when Romot he was a

1953
01:53:58,359 --> 01:54:02,319
fantastic legitimate being or not, I think they the still

1954
01:54:02,319 --> 01:54:07,119
should be celebrated as part of the fantastic either spiritual

1955
01:54:07,359 --> 01:54:08,479
or exploitative tradition.

1956
01:54:11,039 --> 01:54:19,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, for a call and drawing or pulse basting. There

1957
01:54:19,119 --> 01:54:20,199
are cases out there where you.

1958
01:54:20,199 --> 01:54:24,399
Speaker 13: Have spontaneous sports us and yet what happens is then

1959
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:25,880
you need to get involved with research.

1960
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:27,840
Speaker 4: That involved is a little pressure.

1961
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:33,239
Speaker 13: Usually get that teenage you know teenagers for the treasure

1962
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:37,359
trump PHTA for this is off showing in the media

1963
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:43,159
and one is it's leading stick skills our sponsor.

1964
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:44,199
Speaker 2: Aliens can't control.

1965
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:46,199
Speaker 4: Then then become special media.

1966
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 13: You are using complings sort of maintain stagy, have the

1967
01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:52,319
skills and that is rand think.

1968
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:55,960
Speaker 2: So they you know ultimate scuts as though you will

1969
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:59,359
with it. I think Janet that with the.

1970
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:03,439
Speaker 13: Okay has admitted to about five percent of the after

1971
01:55:03,560 --> 01:55:04,800
human food being.

1972
01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:05,239
Speaker 2: Four of them.

1973
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:09,079
Speaker 13: You put pressure to give something back, but I have

1974
01:55:09,359 --> 01:55:14,039
no doubts that are based on the tail book. So

1975
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:17,640
maybe the mean scientific now of pressure. This in my

1976
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:21,000
choice in my identity Bilt the juice, and that's when

1977
01:55:21,039 --> 01:55:25,000
you get these I used to have to Blackpool.

1978
01:55:25,159 --> 01:55:31,359
Speaker 2: I mean, well, I'm not said I was up in overseas. Yeah,

1979
01:55:31,439 --> 01:55:32,560
with stings.

1980
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:34,960
Speaker 32: Else.

1981
01:55:36,159 --> 01:55:36,680
Speaker 4: So the.

1982
01:55:39,399 --> 01:55:43,399
Speaker 37: Fact when media gets involved with stuff, there is always

1983
01:55:43,439 --> 01:55:44,520
going to be no expectations.

1984
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:48,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeahcome tall.

1985
01:55:50,199 --> 01:55:57,039
Speaker 8: On. Sorry, yeah, I was speciation with reference to two

1986
01:55:57,359 --> 01:56:00,319
girls and young women performing. I mean it's us. We're

1987
01:56:00,359 --> 01:56:03,680
going back further into the history because it's happened through

1988
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:07,399
the entry of prior, which is jail or. It seems

1989
01:56:07,439 --> 01:56:11,239
to be part of the reder square of the young woman.

1990
01:56:11,319 --> 01:56:14,479
And could to wonder whether actual question and I confirmings

1991
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:16,880
to female roles, whether or not this is the way

1992
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:19,439
that the old woman gets attention. See so that I'm

1993
01:56:19,479 --> 01:56:21,760
just sort of pruning around playing football or shout or

1994
01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:27,439
do anything like that. I know that there are not

1995
01:56:27,560 --> 01:56:30,600
on the young girls. There are young girls associations. Things

1996
01:56:31,159 --> 01:56:34,279
were just general scripture of nomine. You've got box sisters

1997
01:56:34,319 --> 01:56:38,439
and things like that, and going back further tould be

1998
01:56:38,479 --> 01:56:41,600
witness of ball boys and the three can wind up

1999
01:56:41,640 --> 01:56:45,720
being executed for which roughly say year it because the

2000
01:56:46,039 --> 01:56:50,560
local had of our classed at or type family. Their

2001
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:54,479
girls started up. The young with skill managesting one's sorts

2002
01:56:54,479 --> 01:56:56,640
of distress she was throwing fits someone that kind of

2003
01:56:56,720 --> 01:57:00,720
seeing the other girls chilling in, so it happens time

2004
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:03,319
will twine again. Is the old woman there and there's

2005
01:57:03,479 --> 01:57:05,920
one of the social dynamics. You see, you're able there,

2006
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:10,560
you're saying king of action, pleasing thing on that. Generally

2007
01:57:10,680 --> 01:57:13,279
young I mean can't start whole group and and attracted

2008
01:57:13,279 --> 01:57:17,319
attention entirely by themselves. They need an accelerate. So they

2009
01:57:17,399 --> 01:57:21,960
need something who will come in and to draw attention.

2010
01:57:22,199 --> 01:57:28,680
Chapel seem the who munities okay and rostros the of

2011
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:32,760
Greenfield and the design to please them must be incurrently

2012
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:36,880
over long. Pop sisters lunch important to our assaulted religion.

2013
01:57:37,159 --> 01:57:42,439
They needed to promoted by asking posts who had coats? Yes,

2014
01:57:43,399 --> 01:57:46,960
the pictures on this. So I think that I think

2015
01:57:47,039 --> 01:57:52,439
that the advising little ciles more chowerful promoters probably have more.

2016
01:57:52,680 --> 01:57:56,960
I will roll in the face and come up from them.

2017
01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the adult odd guys India.

2018
01:58:04,119 --> 01:58:06,479
Speaker 8: The name of it. But it happens time to only

2019
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:11,680
got this commotions. I do be the temptation to perform

2020
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:15,079
with veil and must be in all us okay, And

2021
01:58:15,199 --> 01:58:15,680
I met.

2022
01:58:16,239 --> 01:58:21,960
Speaker 15: Nice having been the only female and having also got

2023
01:58:22,039 --> 01:58:23,079
into the experience.

2024
01:58:24,119 --> 01:58:25,560
Speaker 17: There is a lot of credit.

2025
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:28,279
Speaker 8: One of the problems with it, or a lot of

2026
01:58:28,359 --> 01:58:30,399
them not in there is it just doesn't want to

2027
01:58:30,439 --> 01:58:33,560
playball when he wanted to. It does the very opposite.

2028
01:58:34,680 --> 01:58:38,079
Speaker 15: And we had sbr over for our case and that

2029
01:58:38,199 --> 01:58:42,479
will be explained tomorrow. But to try and cat it,

2030
01:58:42,720 --> 01:58:43,840
which is kind of difficult.

2031
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:49,520
Speaker 19: But there was two gentlemen from supposedly from Mescal and

2032
01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:53,880
the lad's confused in it, and they were there to

2033
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:56,960
investigate what was going on.

2034
01:58:58,159 --> 01:59:01,239
Speaker 8: And there are two judge and will sitting with myself

2035
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:04,279
the young girl then and.

2036
01:59:06,039 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 15: We had an almighty what stairs really really loud at.

2037
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:20,640
Speaker 57: I don't even know how to responsory my recosation was

2038
01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:26,399
in fact, so both of the looked.

2039
01:59:26,119 --> 01:59:28,800
Speaker 8: At each other and I said, well, are you going

2040
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:31,479
to go any time soon? You know?

2041
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:32,960
Speaker 17: And they didn't want to go.

2042
01:59:33,199 --> 01:59:35,600
Speaker 15: They didn't want to go upstairs, and when they're a

2043
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:38,640
bloody investing at it, and they would not go up

2044
01:59:38,680 --> 01:59:41,479
the stairs, and that's more follow me.

2045
01:59:41,600 --> 01:59:44,000
Speaker 17: Then, and they are not other men.

2046
01:59:44,840 --> 01:59:49,560
Speaker 8: So I went upstairs and one of these but what

2047
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:53,520
are you well remember these? But while times it's real.

2048
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:59,039
So we're about that. And it was on a bitterly

2049
01:59:59,079 --> 02:00:04,039
a share. But the feet of this real, real tape

2050
02:00:04,039 --> 02:00:07,920
recorder was sitting on the chair and it was it

2051
02:00:08,039 --> 02:00:10,600
was sort of leaning back to the little bit into

2052
02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:19,640
the chair backwards, and it had gone across the room, basically,

2053
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:23,439
is it now. The problem with that was I knew

2054
02:00:23,439 --> 02:00:25,199
the cat was upstairs.

2055
02:00:26,199 --> 02:00:27,199
Speaker 28: And I thought.

2056
02:00:28,439 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 8: The pressure for me to not embarrass them became overwhelming.

2057
02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:37,560
Now I don't want to dis stay he had trunks

2058
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:40,439
on it. That would be the logical exclamation, and it

2059
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:43,199
was an easy one to do. They'd go down there

2060
02:00:43,279 --> 02:00:47,000
and said, you know, this tape recorder is news across

2061
02:00:47,039 --> 02:00:50,439
the room. But if they'd only got up there, they

2062
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:52,880
might have the cat was actually in the room.

2063
02:00:53,119 --> 02:00:56,119
Speaker 15: I lied the cat was in the other room. There's

2064
02:00:56,199 --> 02:01:00,159
possibly the cat cake through I don't know. But as

2065
02:01:00,199 --> 02:01:02,000
the room stood, they take.

2066
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:04,640
Speaker 8: Part and they come off a share and the gone

2067
02:01:05,039 --> 02:01:09,600
across the room, and so the pressure for you to

2068
02:01:10,079 --> 02:01:14,039
satisfy the people there can work the opposite way, so

2069
02:01:14,479 --> 02:01:17,319
because you don't want to, you know, and see that

2070
02:01:18,199 --> 02:01:21,000
they're not they're not you know what you're saying. They're

2071
02:01:21,000 --> 02:01:23,159
just going to go even though they were the ones

2072
02:01:23,199 --> 02:01:25,520
going up there and then to look at it. So

2073
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:29,039
it's really frustrating. It plays us a way, right, certainly

2074
02:01:29,119 --> 02:01:33,880
understands you know, it's so wasn't happening in Ny. If

2075
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:39,600
they wanted to face on the thing, then I can

2076
02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:42,880
understand why they went on to you know, if it

2077
02:01:43,079 --> 02:01:46,399
wasn't happening, or to fill my gap for those people

2078
02:01:46,479 --> 02:01:49,720
that are just there for back films and now you

2079
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:56,439
would do you good. I understand completely the any film

2080
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,920
cans and then the only thing that you get it

2081
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:01,640
followed them. I was the damage in the house.

2082
02:02:01,640 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 2: It was attending.

2083
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:07,640
Speaker 8: And so we all remember hand boys, portending ages and semteenes.

2084
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:11,600
It was begetting by anything else. So I saw as

2085
02:02:12,279 --> 02:02:15,840
in Spidingfield. Yeah, and I mean I understand they did

2086
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:18,399
not believe It's the point I was making was the

2087
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:23,960
pressure I was actually reiterated, so and that was basically

2088
02:02:24,399 --> 02:02:27,479
the pressure will work there with wars, and that you

2089
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:31,720
can sometimes if there is an expert there to see

2090
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,560
it and they're there all about purpose and then there.

2091
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:39,079
Speaker 15: Is lots of pressure. And I basically saying that cat

2092
02:02:39,119 --> 02:02:41,039
when the truth was I didn't know what it was.

2093
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:44,720
It could have been anything, and the cat was at

2094
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:49,199
that time as the logical thing. But we're talking a big, real,

2095
02:02:49,439 --> 02:02:51,039
real it's very very heavy.

2096
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 2: So then you did speak fast barrow with it. Even the.

2097
02:03:03,279 --> 02:03:06,800
Speaker 15: Well as as researchers there there was supposed to be

2098
02:03:06,920 --> 02:03:09,119
the one spoken control over, so they didn't.

2099
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:16,199
Speaker 8: So you know that is frustrating. Spers can be very frustrating.

2100
02:03:16,640 --> 02:03:20,199
Speaker 4: But you look probable than this that you've you've.

2101
02:03:20,119 --> 02:03:23,560
Speaker 45: Hit on something there by saying it happened a stairs

2102
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:24,800
and almost.

2103
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:30,079
Speaker 8: Knowing these are that it's in every story itself hard

2104
02:03:30,319 --> 02:03:31,600
and never.

2105
02:03:33,159 --> 02:03:36,840
Speaker 45: I mean see one see you see the beginning, but

2106
02:03:37,000 --> 02:03:41,279
you tend to speak the film. I mean I've been

2107
02:03:41,359 --> 02:03:46,520
in the policy at places where it's trensing, but you

2108
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:47,880
don't see the origin.

2109
02:03:48,319 --> 02:03:50,560
Speaker 8: I know there's nobody that you could have done it,

2110
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:53,439
but you don't see it or you don't film it.

2111
02:03:54,079 --> 02:03:57,439
So the pressure is there to make something happen. But

2112
02:03:57,600 --> 02:04:02,039
even if something genuine happened, is our and see something

2113
02:04:03,239 --> 02:04:04,239
yeah as a s.

2114
02:04:07,399 --> 02:04:09,439
Speaker 4: Little And then no one.

2115
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:15,520
Speaker 2: Was Yeah that why that's too nice John and said

2116
02:04:17,640 --> 02:04:18,560
upside the.

2117
02:04:22,439 --> 02:04:24,920
Speaker 4: Upstairs he went the lie.

2118
02:04:25,920 --> 02:04:28,560
Speaker 13: I don't they believe there was the same patterns he said,

2119
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:31,960
or they didn't mind the un will you might then

2120
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:34,520
some chums by seeing something that can explain that's any

2121
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:35,359
next place dot.

2122
02:04:38,920 --> 02:04:43,279
Speaker 4: I can let's move on. We've got another question. And

2123
02:04:43,399 --> 02:04:45,560
then there's a guy, Chris, there's a guy just.

2124
02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:51,479
Speaker 8: Crack by there and just an observation. Really, I really

2125
02:04:51,479 --> 02:04:55,239
appreciate the paranel's kind of respond just really slight.

2126
02:04:55,359 --> 02:04:58,760
Speaker 58: So either the paranormal is the one sub that he

2127
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:01,319
capsulates so many disciplines.

2128
02:05:01,359 --> 02:05:04,479
Speaker 8: So for example, the cultural anthropologists.

2129
02:05:03,680 --> 02:05:07,000
Speaker 58: Will see it in terms of gender norms and culture

2130
02:05:07,079 --> 02:05:09,920
and society and all the rest of it. And the

2131
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:14,039
biologists will see it as, oh, it's a psychosis, it's hallucination,

2132
02:05:14,199 --> 02:05:17,079
there's something that it's an initial issue with the brain.

2133
02:05:17,560 --> 02:05:23,640
The psychologists a mass, a mass psychosis, and the religious

2134
02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:25,760
people will see, well, it's God, so you know, there's

2135
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,800
all that no other subject it Perhaps it's so many

2136
02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:31,920
disciplines and what you said earlier that you think about.

2137
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:33,359
Speaker 8: You know, it's it's like the.

2138
02:05:33,439 --> 02:05:38,800
Speaker 58: Double exper the observer of just observing it is affecting it,

2139
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:43,199
which makes it thinks it beyond human understanding, and it

2140
02:05:43,359 --> 02:05:45,319
is that part of it is that we are we

2141
02:05:45,439 --> 02:05:49,439
trying to understand something, but we are not meant to understand.

2142
02:05:50,159 --> 02:05:53,720
I think some famous physicist whose named escape you want

2143
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:56,399
to say something along the lines of the first step

2144
02:05:56,920 --> 02:05:59,279
from the glacs of human sciences, or how the as

2145
02:05:59,279 --> 02:06:02,520
a confirmed but at the bottom of the glass God

2146
02:06:02,680 --> 02:06:03,199
is we think?

2147
02:06:03,279 --> 02:06:03,439
Speaker 4: For you?

2148
02:06:05,199 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 58: I think, okay, if we could cruise stay beyond depth,

2149
02:06:09,000 --> 02:06:11,920
we sat with the issue. There is life after death.

2150
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:15,680
It is a wonderful experiences. It's just a passing phase.

2151
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:17,520
Speaker 8: We come in to learn, but when we die, we

2152
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:18,159
pass off.

2153
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:22,600
Speaker 58: If we all knew that beyond doubt, we don't throw

2154
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:24,000
ourselves after being spread.

2155
02:06:24,159 --> 02:06:25,600
Speaker 8: So maybe we're not meant to know.

2156
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:33,000
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go with the not meant to know phrase

2157
02:06:33,039 --> 02:06:35,880
that controlling that for me.

2158
02:06:36,800 --> 02:06:40,119
Speaker 13: I think there are things we don't understand which science will,

2159
02:06:40,439 --> 02:06:41,800
hopefully when should be given them.

2160
02:06:41,960 --> 02:06:43,359
Speaker 4: I want say science.

2161
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:47,079
Speaker 2: As explain just the you know, it's a way and

2162
02:06:47,239 --> 02:06:48,359
think it's mething.

2163
02:06:48,159 --> 02:06:53,399
Speaker 13: Score Popka said before sacond II five percent.

2164
02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:57,159
Speaker 2: Sorry, I think it's we're st off remember something of them,

2165
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:01,479
you know, but now I make as everything normal. So

2166
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:04,039
there are things we're going to come in sume shup.

2167
02:07:04,239 --> 02:07:07,279
But it steps norm of the vinyl helpless.

2168
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:07,439
Speaker 4: And so so.

2169
02:07:08,079 --> 02:07:10,359
Speaker 8: But it's not working with sites is that you know

2170
02:07:10,920 --> 02:07:13,560
we do the siding to stay and we still.

2171
02:07:13,359 --> 02:07:14,119
Speaker 4: Power work it out.

2172
02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:15,439
Speaker 17: Why does limited but.

2173
02:07:15,479 --> 02:07:18,239
Speaker 13: Really think about you know what Homo sapians three hundred

2174
02:07:18,279 --> 02:07:21,920
thousand years been Homo saplings. Science has gone back to

2175
02:07:22,319 --> 02:07:27,359
fifteen degrees. I guess so I was that five hundred

2176
02:07:27,399 --> 02:07:30,600
of years with scientists method and even then we go

2177
02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:36,199
with psychology goes back to eighteen eighty six thing first psychology,

2178
02:07:36,279 --> 02:07:40,520
lab power, psychology nineteen thirties. It's nothing compared to the

2179
02:07:40,600 --> 02:07:43,159
length of which have a sampling has been alive and

2180
02:07:43,239 --> 02:07:47,239
that's only suppings back with a four point three billion

2181
02:07:47,319 --> 02:07:50,239
years plan has been about so sciences that really.

2182
02:07:50,079 --> 02:07:50,880
Speaker 4: Goes to the new.

2183
02:07:52,520 --> 02:07:57,439
Speaker 37: The facts arend as well about that there's parapsychological investigations

2184
02:07:57,479 --> 02:08:00,760
of those two Yeah, tradicial st on that.

2185
02:08:01,119 --> 02:08:03,880
Speaker 13: It's a fascinating subject of me now in an Irish

2186
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:07,680
fagous system which is about getting jobs for students. So

2187
02:08:08,479 --> 02:08:11,439
have a few parents have anything purely give us all,

2188
02:08:11,600 --> 02:08:14,880
especially panel because it's always have a bill of them.

2189
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:20,399
There's a lot of psychologists anyway, no hesitantles I might

2190
02:08:20,520 --> 02:08:25,239
imbibe them. Yeah so, but nowadays it's a huge one

2191
02:08:25,279 --> 02:08:28,640
of the psychology at least things like forensics.

2192
02:08:28,399 --> 02:08:30,119
Speaker 2: Or counseling as a job.

2193
02:08:30,680 --> 02:08:32,439
Speaker 13: Lying at the end of it, as I spending thirty

2194
02:08:32,479 --> 02:08:35,399
grand a lesially going to get professional ghost sumpters on.

2195
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:36,000
Speaker 2: Court the bar.

2196
02:08:37,880 --> 02:08:40,000
Speaker 4: It's not jobs at the end of it, that's it,

2197
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:42,720
Chrish Sorry and.

2198
02:08:44,279 --> 02:08:46,720
Speaker 8: Again Stain. He was saying, if we called the pruiser

2199
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:50,239
was life after death, the whole subjectives were tied and

2200
02:08:50,319 --> 02:08:55,079
than that because there are postive phenomena that don't less

2201
02:08:55,159 --> 02:09:00,319
souling have to rely on. Whfe after death times is

2202
02:09:00,319 --> 02:09:03,039
a bif one. I'm looking at that's up as interviewing

2203
02:09:03,159 --> 02:09:06,279
life after that, and it might be that none of

2204
02:09:06,359 --> 02:09:09,199
it and he's interviewing with life after lass it's a

2205
02:09:09,319 --> 02:09:10,720
completely different Now.

2206
02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:14,319
Speaker 58: Yeah, I'm just saying that as an exactly It's just something.

2207
02:09:14,359 --> 02:09:17,600
Speaker 8: I picked up on it because it's something winter you know,

2208
02:09:17,920 --> 02:09:21,000
improve life after death. Ever, will childre themselves off the building?

2209
02:09:21,399 --> 02:09:21,560
You know?

2210
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:25,760
Speaker 59: Although having said that right, reading some of the books

2211
02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:29,239
from the Easing Pius where they describe what life is

2212
02:09:29,279 --> 02:09:32,439
on the other side from the communications, I thought, I'm

2213
02:09:32,479 --> 02:09:33,359
not actually sure.

2214
02:09:33,439 --> 02:09:40,199
Speaker 4: Also, oh, fatal.

2215
02:09:42,319 --> 02:09:44,880
Speaker 13: Outside in the car par My question is for the

2216
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:47,399
people who have been experiencing pouts.

2217
02:09:48,119 --> 02:09:50,960
Speaker 2: Do you believe the past can see you? Which means

2218
02:09:51,039 --> 02:09:54,560
that sometimes or if you heard it laughing, it will

2219
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:55,439
help boy spots?

2220
02:09:55,560 --> 02:09:56,800
Speaker 4: Or is it a living thing?

2221
02:09:59,319 --> 02:10:06,119
Speaker 15: Simple answer that we should ned likes.

2222
02:10:07,159 --> 02:10:09,560
Speaker 8: Don't mean I'm non opt enough. I'm looking.

2223
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:13,600
Speaker 15: So what I think from that experience, I do believe, yes,

2224
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:18,680
and I do think they're influenced by people in my experience.

2225
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:21,720
Speaker 8: So who was I speaking to hold your hand? But

2226
02:10:21,960 --> 02:10:26,560
we've got the lights that you look could Yeah, So

2227
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:29,640
I do believe that the panter geist can see you,

2228
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,319
and I think that there is some connection with people,

2229
02:10:35,399 --> 02:10:36,119
an intention.

2230
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:41,439
Speaker 15: So you might think I just need to go and

2231
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:44,680
make a coffee. You may find a coffee. I mean

2232
02:10:44,880 --> 02:10:46,760
I didn't have this book. You may have had the

2233
02:10:47,079 --> 02:10:50,279
coffee jars moved or something like that. There seems to

2234
02:10:50,319 --> 02:10:53,000
be some sort of connection. So I don't know if

2235
02:10:53,079 --> 02:10:55,920
the word seeing is right, because I don't know ifficulty

2236
02:10:56,479 --> 02:11:00,159
about is, but that they seem to be responsive to

2237
02:11:00,640 --> 02:11:01,479
what people.

2238
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:02,800
Speaker 4: Think and feel.

2239
02:11:03,039 --> 02:11:06,319
Speaker 8: That's all I can gather from my experience.

2240
02:11:06,399 --> 02:11:06,680
Speaker 4: Really.

2241
02:11:08,560 --> 02:11:14,760
Speaker 45: Yeah, again, in my experience, if a poltrygeist throws something

2242
02:11:14,840 --> 02:11:19,479
an't you, then there must be some agency that knows

2243
02:11:20,439 --> 02:11:20,800
in some.

2244
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:25,760
Speaker 59: Way where that's going, unless, of course, we're generating it

2245
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:27,720
off from ourselves.

2246
02:11:29,199 --> 02:11:32,840
Speaker 8: If we're generating it from ourselves, then we are directing

2247
02:11:32,960 --> 02:11:39,560
that experience. And he obviously say that, of course, all

2248
02:11:39,640 --> 02:11:43,560
this to happen and butt in on loss of the

2249
02:11:43,680 --> 02:11:47,079
polity geist the more mind. In post Guy's experience a

2250
02:11:47,199 --> 02:11:51,239
circling there does seem to be some sort of human agency,

2251
02:11:51,439 --> 02:11:54,479
not deliterate human agency, but there does seem to be

2252
02:11:55,159 --> 02:11:58,479
some sort of effect coming from the people selves causing

2253
02:11:58,560 --> 02:11:59,079
these things.

2254
02:12:00,039 --> 02:12:01,199
Speaker 2: Isn't it dinos or whatever?

2255
02:12:02,399 --> 02:12:03,279
Speaker 4: I just add to that?

2256
02:12:03,479 --> 02:12:07,399
Speaker 13: So you do what the history about time in ages,

2257
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:11,239
it was all witchwists, the devil going into them about

2258
02:12:11,279 --> 02:12:15,920
eighteen hundreds onwards, become more less witchcraft list if you know,

2259
02:12:16,479 --> 02:12:19,159
devil worship decide for them. And we moved into an

2260
02:12:19,159 --> 02:12:21,960
area and out where the psychologists referred to miss.

2261
02:12:21,880 --> 02:12:24,840
Speaker 2: Misinterpretation of natural floorma and video stuff in florna. So

2262
02:12:25,319 --> 02:12:29,439
a shadow might be considered an advision. Something might move

2263
02:12:29,640 --> 02:12:33,479
or some ways might come out as a rack or house.

2264
02:12:33,520 --> 02:12:37,359
Speaker 13: Great could been since up. But in the nineteen fifty

2265
02:12:37,399 --> 02:12:39,279
eight it was the first time the guy called Bill

2266
02:12:39,399 --> 02:12:43,239
Roll he may have heard little bit wrong. He optigeist

2267
02:12:43,279 --> 02:12:47,319
and he come up with then with RSP carr correspontaneous cybercons.

2268
02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:50,319
Speaker 4: He's taken the stirit out of publicists.

2269
02:12:50,680 --> 02:12:54,319
Speaker 13: And I argue that it's a manifestation of cybercons that

2270
02:12:54,520 --> 02:12:58,319
is on base that he originally said the pressed sexuality,

2271
02:12:58,600 --> 02:13:00,920
but this is this is the spoiling his nik. And

2272
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:07,640
then look over he was with the more than now

2273
02:13:08,119 --> 02:13:13,560
it's his frustration. It's hands up frustrations and manifest that's

2274
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:15,479
what a mouth psychologists.

2275
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:15,279
Speaker 4: Say it is.

2276
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:19,159
Speaker 13: I might incite commit about that particles of those case.

2277
02:13:19,439 --> 02:13:21,560
But there are other cases out. There's a really interesting

2278
02:13:21,640 --> 02:13:26,119
case over in auss of State in Settle the commost

2279
02:13:26,159 --> 02:13:33,159
did bottle so both was ninety twelve versus sixty four

2280
02:13:33,279 --> 02:13:37,720
years APO him and he had all the classic noma,

2281
02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:40,880
but he also had three hundred ev pins and he

2282
02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:44,439
was here with license, and he's attributed those voices to.

2283
02:13:44,520 --> 02:13:46,079
Speaker 2: The phenomena ultimist.

2284
02:13:46,920 --> 02:13:51,680
Speaker 13: So the Jews out, yeah, don't mean howso God just

2285
02:13:51,760 --> 02:13:55,039
referred to p K and we still can examples would

2286
02:13:55,079 --> 02:13:59,279
suggest some sort of stirhye coasting.

2287
02:14:00,239 --> 02:14:01,760
Speaker 2: That was full for explansions.

2288
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:03,119
Speaker 4: Got one.

2289
02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:08,720
Speaker 8: If I can along on my personal experiences because I

2290
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:11,960
was also a young woman when I was experiencing a

2291
02:14:12,079 --> 02:14:14,880
lot of things that I has when it comes to

2292
02:14:15,640 --> 02:14:18,640
perceived consciousness because I'm not a scientist, I do not

2293
02:14:18,720 --> 02:14:24,039
have a scientific background. I'm surely literate literally, and so

2294
02:14:24,439 --> 02:14:28,000
I still necessarily have the you know, the high bukshuy

2295
02:14:28,079 --> 02:14:30,000
brains that this slot through. I just sort of football

2296
02:14:30,039 --> 02:14:34,199
through life in the bookmarking land. But during the few

2297
02:14:34,279 --> 02:14:37,880
years in apsticular house, I'm when I think about it now,

2298
02:14:37,920 --> 02:14:41,479
I separate the experiences with whatever it was you call

2299
02:14:41,520 --> 02:14:44,600
it the man or being a lounged for the thetails,

2300
02:14:45,600 --> 02:14:50,359
separates it into like the situal loops, just this constant

2301
02:14:50,960 --> 02:14:55,560
and pre manifestation saut so we just have then the

2302
02:14:55,800 --> 02:15:01,479
same night every night, footsteps, lights always is burning. Things

2303
02:15:01,560 --> 02:15:04,439
like that, and those I would never attribute to any

2304
02:15:04,479 --> 02:15:06,760
form of consciousness. So I wouldn't say that that entity

2305
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:10,199
could see me, interact with be do anything, because it

2306
02:15:10,319 --> 02:15:15,279
was just the same thing every night and for months

2307
02:15:15,359 --> 02:15:17,439
ultimately and then and then cutting in on the years.

2308
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:21,960
But when that changed to what we believed he saw

2309
02:15:22,399 --> 02:15:25,119
and that there was basically the man in the bedroom

2310
02:15:26,479 --> 02:15:29,479
and the way that we saw this, and we were

2311
02:15:29,479 --> 02:15:31,439
all very much away. Even in the middle of the day,

2312
02:15:32,279 --> 02:15:35,479
he would be not so much interacting with us, but

2313
02:15:35,600 --> 02:15:38,640
he would be looking directly at us and not in

2314
02:15:38,720 --> 02:15:41,000
the same way that like a cap the syrup and

2315
02:15:41,079 --> 02:15:44,199
name on the wall, looking at us sort of curious.

2316
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:46,960
And so then he said there was an elemence of

2317
02:15:47,079 --> 02:15:49,880
consciousness to it and vision. So I would say that

2318
02:15:50,640 --> 02:15:54,880
there was. There was an elegence before of like opposite

2319
02:15:54,880 --> 02:16:00,239
compability within what we were experiencing. But it was very

2320
02:16:00,359 --> 02:16:03,359
much on a scale. It was like a that's for

2321
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:05,800
its consciousness, if that's what it was. It was very

2322
02:16:05,880 --> 02:16:08,960
much on spectrum. Sometimes it would just be sometimes it'd

2323
02:16:08,960 --> 02:16:11,119
be more printed what we were, but it was very

2324
02:16:11,199 --> 02:16:14,319
much and environmental. That's what it would fluctuate. So watch

2325
02:16:14,399 --> 02:16:18,279
the classes and say, I sorted, when we do we

2326
02:16:18,399 --> 02:16:21,359
get the SCR And we did get anyone in is

2327
02:16:21,399 --> 02:16:24,159
that the power of the hindsight, isn't it? Because right

2328
02:16:24,239 --> 02:16:28,560
now and when I'm the three Bob DEALERWAM series going

2329
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:33,280
through Lady House. But we didn't that time, we didn't.

2330
02:16:33,399 --> 02:16:37,040
We did the Watson didn't pact that that body of knowledge,

2331
02:16:37,079 --> 02:16:39,120
not mind us, but either certainly say that it was

2332
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:42,000
personally for me, it was is on spectrum, a very

2333
02:16:42,159 --> 02:16:43,120
fast moving section.

2334
02:16:43,920 --> 02:16:46,280
Speaker 2: I just asked, what was this hounds dressed like.

2335
02:16:48,559 --> 02:16:52,680
Speaker 8: An and suit and or what soup and bond suits one,

2336
02:16:52,799 --> 02:16:55,639
So we'll say late eighties.

2337
02:16:55,920 --> 02:17:00,760
Speaker 13: One weird five ideas to fight out there that made

2338
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:02,719
these are most limits made.

2339
02:17:05,360 --> 02:17:07,079
Speaker 2: Some years of people with the salvage.

2340
02:17:10,920 --> 02:17:13,040
Speaker 8: You stick clips out to my man, it's the first thing.

2341
02:17:13,040 --> 02:17:19,840
Speaker 60: Ugly and yes, okay, uh I forgot. Yeah the report

2342
02:17:19,920 --> 02:17:23,000
popular or something like that. Oh yeah, this is just

2343
02:17:23,079 --> 02:17:24,799
an open hand or questioned.

2344
02:17:25,319 --> 02:17:29,479
Speaker 2: I hate thinking really about why paranormal research has the

2345
02:17:29,559 --> 02:17:32,079
sort of reputation and stages that it has now.

2346
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:35,719
Speaker 3: When I think about sort of science rebranding up, I

2347
02:17:35,760 --> 02:17:38,440
always think about just Victorian edge, where people doing all

2348
02:17:38,520 --> 02:17:42,520
sorts of crazy experiments in actual sciences psychology somehow.

2349
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:44,319
Speaker 4: Normal, and there's experiencist movement.

2350
02:17:44,079 --> 02:17:46,680
Speaker 3: Where people are really desperately trying to, like said, the

2351
02:17:47,040 --> 02:17:49,479
spiritual realm, and people's for leads to the experiences and

2352
02:17:50,120 --> 02:17:52,319
I can't have the thing that you know, natural science

2353
02:17:52,399 --> 02:17:53,000
is very well.

2354
02:17:52,920 --> 02:17:56,000
Speaker 39: Respected and now psychology is very well respected. But at

2355
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:59,680
the same time with psychology there was a point where

2356
02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:02,200
it was very very taboom and very shameful when people

2357
02:18:02,239 --> 02:18:04,399
talk about the mental helvi. Everyone were trying harder and

2358
02:18:04,520 --> 02:18:07,159
they had the pressure of anxiety, your own psychosis.

2359
02:18:07,239 --> 02:18:10,040
Speaker 3: Whereas I think now it's moved on and think and

2360
02:18:10,159 --> 02:18:12,520
more accepting, people talk about it, and it's funding and

2361
02:18:12,600 --> 02:18:14,520
it's counting, like you said, and there's the whole sort

2362
02:18:14,559 --> 02:18:19,600
of chained work in services around SLA Welsh Support now

2363
02:18:19,719 --> 02:18:22,399
whereas we of that was the booth. And I'm trying

2364
02:18:22,440 --> 02:18:25,799
to sort of pinpoint at what point did people researching

2365
02:18:25,920 --> 02:18:29,559
paranorlar or missing the experiences of the paranorm war. Why

2366
02:18:29,639 --> 02:18:32,399
did that become such a sort of like dirty thing.

2367
02:18:32,840 --> 02:18:35,479
And I'm thinking, I'm thinking to the point where so

2368
02:18:36,159 --> 02:18:38,719
before I went to university, I found that people around

2369
02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:40,719
me would can you be quite open to talk about

2370
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:42,920
these things, whether it was like a religious belief or

2371
02:18:42,920 --> 02:18:46,040
whether it's a a belief in those experience they had.

2372
02:18:46,440 --> 02:18:49,239
And then seeing they got into the university, I suddenly

2373
02:18:49,319 --> 02:18:51,440
found that people would never talk about that. At least

2374
02:18:51,440 --> 02:18:52,920
they did, it would be very quiet and they were

2375
02:18:52,959 --> 02:18:55,159
very embarrassed. They didn't want me to know because they

2376
02:18:55,200 --> 02:18:57,200
thought that they wouldn't be taken seriously in their skill

2377
02:18:57,319 --> 02:18:58,079
with whatever that was.

2378
02:18:58,479 --> 02:19:00,360
Speaker 2: And then were ever even's professional said thing I do

2379
02:19:00,440 --> 02:19:01,559
to people also think about that.

2380
02:19:01,680 --> 02:19:03,280
Speaker 4: That's very embarrassing, that's very a shameful.

2381
02:19:03,319 --> 02:19:06,479
Speaker 3: What I don't really understand at what point and why

2382
02:19:07,040 --> 02:19:09,200
sort of para activity came to I think when people

2383
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:11,760
just sort of quite often roll their eyes at or

2384
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:14,200
they don't want to they don't want to admit they.

2385
02:19:14,120 --> 02:19:15,760
Speaker 4: Believe film Maurice, Ghostbusters.

2386
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:18,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I know we say that the Gamble, it

2387
02:19:18,520 --> 02:19:20,680
doesn't exaust in the Hollywood, but they all things. But

2388
02:19:20,840 --> 02:19:23,280
we have to be having that fluffer, you know, besides

2389
02:19:23,319 --> 02:19:26,520
of insturments going wrong, that's joke. So what do you

2390
02:19:26,600 --> 02:19:29,600
have any insight on on when that turning point was?

2391
02:19:29,719 --> 02:19:35,840
Speaker 4: And is it sex change? Do you think that interesting?

2392
02:19:36,680 --> 02:19:40,239
Speaker 2: Was pup?

2393
02:19:42,200 --> 02:19:44,639
Speaker 4: I'm thinking more of the parasy.

2394
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:50,680
Speaker 17: So obviously.

2395
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:58,079
Speaker 13: So I got it that was mean so yes, there

2396
02:19:58,200 --> 02:20:02,680
was a real cipher was call interests in the Francisco

2397
02:20:02,920 --> 02:20:06,319
eighteen eighty so so und fifty years ago it was

2398
02:20:06,559 --> 02:20:09,319
considered to be a serious subjects.

2399
02:20:08,879 --> 02:20:14,000
Speaker 2: In sense why has changed politics? A small people would say.

2400
02:20:15,440 --> 02:20:15,920
Speaker 4: There are.

2401
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:21,639
Speaker 13: Cycles of interest in different topics. I mentioned earlier about

2402
02:20:21,639 --> 02:20:24,440
the vocational aspect of psychology. Now I went to a

2403
02:20:24,600 --> 02:20:27,639
forensic conference fifteen years ago. It was the third of

2404
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:31,639
anniversary of the division of the forensic forensic divisions. The

2405
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,239
guess and really feel that we'll manage the guy at

2406
02:20:35,239 --> 02:20:37,520
the editor this partic command was said that when I

2407
02:20:37,680 --> 02:20:40,959
started will be forensic, my my chuldor said, don't do it.

2408
02:20:41,079 --> 02:20:45,440
There's no career in forensic. It's nonsense. That was in sixties,

2409
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:48,639
about the nineties. It's the indy thing. And I think

2410
02:20:48,680 --> 02:20:50,760
we're going to going a few piers. Whether power psychology

2411
02:20:50,840 --> 02:20:54,360
ever takes off, I don't know. There's no career. There

2412
02:20:54,399 --> 02:20:58,760
are catnings in psychology become offer health, psychologies matic, now

2413
02:20:59,079 --> 02:21:02,600
forensic well school you say sports big, yeah, so.

2414
02:21:03,239 --> 02:21:04,040
Speaker 4: These are big ones.

2415
02:21:04,120 --> 02:21:06,520
Speaker 2: Now there will be out of changers.

2416
02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:09,200
Speaker 4: I'm thinking friends are psychologically it's so defferend.

2417
02:21:09,239 --> 02:21:11,200
Speaker 2: Psychologists go out there now were the jobs.

2418
02:21:11,639 --> 02:21:13,319
Speaker 13: You know there will be two of these students with

2419
02:21:13,760 --> 02:21:15,920
MSCs and and there's no jobs, so they have to

2420
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:16,520
shank you again.

2421
02:21:17,719 --> 02:21:20,520
Speaker 2: Why why changed to him? I mainly made it for

2422
02:21:20,840 --> 02:21:22,280
nine No longer there.

2423
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:31,680
Speaker 8: I was, So I just following on from your anecdome't

2424
02:21:31,719 --> 02:21:34,879
I interdue to black walls once by great virus too?

2425
02:21:34,920 --> 02:21:36,920
Speaker 61: Black walls wurg And I said, saying it was an

2426
02:21:36,920 --> 02:21:40,120
interesting subject are you've gone into? And it had such

2427
02:21:40,120 --> 02:21:43,000
a sexual career And she said, whom dare you? I

2428
02:21:43,079 --> 02:21:45,159
haven't made a respect and.

2429
02:21:46,719 --> 02:21:50,719
Speaker 8: When she firsted, and it's the subject has become respect

2430
02:21:50,879 --> 02:21:55,239
because people let us. When she started her pah, she

2431
02:21:55,440 --> 02:21:58,120
was full of sort of noaouts. You know. She she

2432
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:00,879
set out she was a legal, she set out proobal

2433
02:22:00,920 --> 02:22:06,239
source of is and she she couldn't proved any of it,

2434
02:22:06,319 --> 02:22:09,879
which of course is as Chris was saying, with these

2435
02:22:10,479 --> 02:22:13,760
vertication hypothesis, you know Google, he kind of uned our

2436
02:22:13,799 --> 02:22:18,040
replication prices. But it's just bound into any other kind

2437
02:22:18,079 --> 02:22:21,239
of things, machines trying to create things. And she's she said,

2438
02:22:21,360 --> 02:22:23,520
he could be I'm one day. A lot of this

2439
02:22:23,760 --> 02:22:27,920
stuff is to do with the agency because William James

2440
02:22:27,959 --> 02:22:32,920
did stands for very respectable train of thought, but he

2441
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:37,799
had pindeings the seeds other things, rather than being able

2442
02:22:37,879 --> 02:22:40,959
to start off for those proble stuff himself. And certainly

2443
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:43,920
it kind of to my way and complete things. Things

2444
02:22:44,559 --> 02:22:46,360
kind of lost their way a bit, and all the

2445
02:22:46,399 --> 02:22:50,520
Freudian stunt or psychoanalysis. But then when you get actually

2446
02:22:50,600 --> 02:22:54,559
Hagel psychology and combistion psychology, things that you can things

2447
02:22:54,600 --> 02:22:56,879
that you could predict to the things that you can huntify,

2448
02:22:57,159 --> 02:23:01,520
and all aso measures that you can, you know that

2449
02:23:01,680 --> 02:23:06,120
pharma colom genes helped enormously a hypological and psychiatric distress

2450
02:23:06,440 --> 02:23:10,840
over the last fifty years of things like S's opinior

2451
02:23:10,879 --> 02:23:12,680
and my burd sort of and things like that. So

2452
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:18,159
actually having Agel is silly, I think makes people more

2453
02:23:18,520 --> 02:23:21,559
more certainly, it makes things more respectable. It also make

2454
02:23:21,680 --> 02:23:26,600
completely our respective things respectable. So there is a great

2455
02:23:26,680 --> 02:23:29,799
deal of work in Bride with witchcraft and how pinker

2456
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:34,520
witches and how they mechanisms work, and hand diagnosed witches

2457
02:23:34,879 --> 02:23:36,319
and then you find out what they are and how

2458
02:23:36,399 --> 02:23:39,360
you find it out, the phenomenon that they cause. It's

2459
02:23:39,360 --> 02:23:46,440
all bollards, But it was he specially for humility as

2460
02:23:46,479 --> 02:23:46,840
a priority.

2461
02:23:46,959 --> 02:23:47,520
Speaker 38: That's as well.

2462
02:23:47,920 --> 02:23:50,760
Speaker 8: So I wonder if it's im You wonder if it's

2463
02:23:50,879 --> 02:23:53,319
just that element of agencies. So Sue you can risk

2464
02:23:53,440 --> 02:23:56,000
on something and predict it and they could change in

2465
02:23:56,040 --> 02:23:58,639
the world with it in that respectable distancing.

2466
02:23:59,200 --> 02:24:02,120
Speaker 45: And I think it was sort of all the way

2467
02:24:02,239 --> 02:24:04,440
when he started ghost Busters can.

2468
02:24:04,520 --> 02:24:08,360
Speaker 8: Talk about the paradormal? What can you think of TV?

2469
02:24:08,559 --> 02:24:12,159
Ghost onto s wod be around with them athletis, So

2470
02:24:12,280 --> 02:24:15,440
the whole subject is always going to be changed by

2471
02:24:15,639 --> 02:24:19,719
not I'm just going to go back to the model.

2472
02:24:20,600 --> 02:24:22,159
Speaker 17: You can't predict and control.

2473
02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:28,280
Speaker 8: It's a simple sad And you know, I do believe

2474
02:24:28,440 --> 02:24:32,479
that the model should be in science. We're not there yet,

2475
02:24:33,239 --> 02:24:37,079
you know, we don't have enough information, or.

2476
02:24:37,280 --> 02:24:39,879
Speaker 15: Rather we've not been looking for it. We've not been

2477
02:24:40,719 --> 02:24:45,799
you know, I'm a great leader in complex masses. I

2478
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:48,159
don't think you can. You know at the moment, the

2479
02:24:48,239 --> 02:24:51,120
way that we do, we're doing very linearly in that

2480
02:24:51,319 --> 02:24:54,319
you know, we chop all the outpine excelle.

2481
02:24:54,200 --> 02:24:56,319
Speaker 8: And yet it's the other waist we should have been

2482
02:24:56,399 --> 02:25:01,600
paying attention. So but because science wants to predict your control,

2483
02:25:01,639 --> 02:25:03,120
as you say, it is sensibly You're right.

2484
02:25:04,280 --> 02:25:05,840
Speaker 17: They bought the middle there. They bought the.

2485
02:25:05,920 --> 02:25:09,360
Speaker 8: Juicy bears and not the things that that has been

2486
02:25:09,559 --> 02:25:13,680
predicted to be our wise. So without a decent model,

2487
02:25:14,159 --> 02:25:17,559
you don't you call predicting childs.

2488
02:25:17,600 --> 02:25:21,159
Speaker 13: The simple stuck And nobody's mentioned the F word either,

2489
02:25:21,799 --> 02:25:22,680
No one station four.

2490
02:25:24,000 --> 02:25:24,239
Speaker 4: Sorry.

2491
02:25:25,520 --> 02:25:28,479
Speaker 13: I mean that in a few cases where you've been

2492
02:25:28,520 --> 02:25:31,000
unterially forging power psychologia on intribute things.

2493
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:33,840
Speaker 2: But that's not just power psychology I'm thinking about.

2494
02:25:34,319 --> 02:25:38,840
Speaker 13: I think the guy wascated psycho civil Virgin in the Yeah,

2495
02:25:39,600 --> 02:25:42,159
he was underfold it was the education what plus as

2496
02:25:42,319 --> 02:25:46,319
research and no being that this is educational psychology.

2497
02:25:46,639 --> 02:25:49,159
Speaker 2: But because if one or two case get the powers begin,

2498
02:25:49,239 --> 02:25:50,360
it takes pop thing in.

2499
02:25:51,719 --> 02:25:54,280
Speaker 4: So there's the questions called I think.

2500
02:25:55,760 --> 02:25:59,159
Speaker 38: I'm just reminded of personal experience. By the time I

2501
02:25:59,280 --> 02:26:04,239
was actually kind of doing research and publishing papers, ends up,

2502
02:26:04,399 --> 02:26:08,840
I was already a confirmed skeptic. But still even then

2503
02:26:09,559 --> 02:26:13,200
I can just you know, when my think government made

2504
02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:15,760
me very clear that my interest in this stuff would

2505
02:26:15,879 --> 02:26:17,639
be tolerated.

2506
02:26:18,479 --> 02:26:21,159
Speaker 17: But not encouraged, And from all the time I had

2507
02:26:21,200 --> 02:26:22,920
to have a kind a parallel.

2508
02:26:22,959 --> 02:26:29,399
Speaker 13: Stream of more respectable conventional research and I wish in retrospect,

2509
02:26:29,440 --> 02:26:31,760
I wish I had kind of jump ship earlier because

2510
02:26:31,760 --> 02:26:33,600
the stuff that really interestedly.

2511
02:26:33,239 --> 02:26:34,239
Speaker 2: Was was the issue.

2512
02:26:34,760 --> 02:26:38,440
Speaker 62: And you know, I for a long time carried on

2513
02:26:38,520 --> 02:26:41,239
to research in the area of cognition and emotion, which

2514
02:26:41,239 --> 02:26:45,520
has kind of been a great mentionally accepted area for research.

2515
02:26:46,120 --> 02:26:51,280
Speaker 38: I'd been really made me very sympathetic towards parapsychologists who

2516
02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:54,000
actually were saying, well, actually, you know some of this

2517
02:26:54,040 --> 02:26:57,600
stuff anything at old play were actually entertaining that idea.

2518
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:00,639
And so the people, those people that few people in

2519
02:27:00,799 --> 02:27:06,360
university lectureships and you know, so on would face what

2520
02:27:06,479 --> 02:27:09,200
I face for a thousand times worse. You know, because

2521
02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:12,639
I do support parapsychology, I want a parapsychologists to carry

2522
02:27:12,680 --> 02:27:15,520
on doing the research, make as good quality as they

2523
02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:19,920
can see it. Yeah, I'm kind of open to being convinced,

2524
02:27:20,000 --> 02:27:23,159
and I think I am big with self consciously of

2525
02:27:23,319 --> 02:27:25,920
not I think I have, but it will have to

2526
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,559
be very good quality and still do that job. But

2527
02:27:29,000 --> 02:27:33,079
I'm all in vador of the parapsychologists trying their best

2528
02:27:33,159 --> 02:27:35,600
to do that when they were an atual one. We

2529
02:27:36,159 --> 02:27:39,399
be into that earlier where kind of no matter how.

2530
02:27:39,399 --> 02:27:44,559
Speaker 62: Strong the evidence was, the conventional, conventional scientific community just

2531
02:27:44,600 --> 02:27:46,040
would refuse to be swayed by it.

2532
02:27:46,159 --> 02:27:49,559
Speaker 2: I don't known, but now they got starting on when

2533
02:27:49,639 --> 02:27:52,479
somebody like me over, no, it needs to go. I

2534
02:27:52,520 --> 02:27:54,559
mean he's going back, he's worked back in that direction.

2535
02:27:56,159 --> 02:27:56,760
Speaker 4: He's really.

2536
02:27:59,239 --> 02:27:59,959
Speaker 61: But you know, I.

2537
02:28:02,079 --> 02:28:03,680
Speaker 4: Didn't really really sympathize with.

2538
02:28:05,799 --> 02:28:10,280
Speaker 38: And Edinburgh, various other places where they are much sympathetic

2539
02:28:10,639 --> 02:28:13,719
to all the idea that sign might be real because

2540
02:28:13,760 --> 02:28:16,399
they must, they must face this kind of hostility.

2541
02:28:17,559 --> 02:28:21,440
Speaker 60: Perhaps some times we've got we've got literally a minute, labs,

2542
02:28:21,440 --> 02:28:22,840
and we've got one one quick question.

2543
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:26,319
Speaker 45: Like I was in the middle of my PhD whole

2544
02:28:26,399 --> 02:28:31,559
lass called sons that enormous passion to stop the parapsyche

2545
02:28:31,719 --> 02:28:32,520
and move on to.

2546
02:28:32,639 --> 02:28:35,920
Speaker 8: Just so something that could get some funding and something

2547
02:28:36,000 --> 02:28:37,479
you're like that was.

2548
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:39,079
Speaker 2: Pulled onto massive passion.

2549
02:28:39,399 --> 02:28:41,280
Speaker 8: But locally, I'm yourself fully link.

2550
02:28:41,360 --> 02:28:46,239
Speaker 4: So we got one fun question and we got four minutes,

2551
02:28:46,360 --> 02:28:47,280
So go for it.

2552
02:28:47,479 --> 02:28:50,000
Speaker 8: Okay, it's a bit of a nuts and bolts question really,

2553
02:28:51,079 --> 02:28:54,120
so I can understand how people in the scientific community

2554
02:28:54,200 --> 02:28:58,680
are afraid of, you know, speaking out about the parenal.

2555
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:02,200
I had a friend you as a scientist a double

2556
02:29:02,280 --> 02:29:07,520
bank who have experienced politicize activity and we never ever

2557
02:29:07,639 --> 02:29:11,079
talk about it. But equally in the religious community, there

2558
02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:13,760
are a lot of people my family were very religious

2559
02:29:14,959 --> 02:29:20,799
who experience the paranormal phenomenon against friedened of talking about

2560
02:29:20,879 --> 02:29:23,280
it and with the rise of what seems to me

2561
02:29:23,399 --> 02:29:26,959
and then I'm new to all of this, so an

2562
02:29:27,040 --> 02:29:28,399
interest in the paranormal.

2563
02:29:28,639 --> 02:29:32,680
Speaker 50: I'm just wondering when whether you guys are approached by

2564
02:29:32,760 --> 02:29:36,520
the church in your investigations, how does it work, How

2565
02:29:36,600 --> 02:29:41,159
does the church perceive this new rise of the paranormal

2566
02:29:41,360 --> 02:29:42,600
in mainstream media.

2567
02:29:42,959 --> 02:29:45,600
Speaker 17: Well, I'm certainly not approached club.

2568
02:29:47,639 --> 02:29:50,639
Speaker 8: Right, I'm not involved in parapsychology, but I've been heavily

2569
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:52,799
involved in both the church and burial space as a

2570
02:29:52,879 --> 02:29:58,280
relation to paralorl investigator has gone God speak right okay,

2571
02:29:58,600 --> 02:30:01,639
and the church has not this. I can't speak if

2572
02:30:01,639 --> 02:30:07,799
they've been approaching any university's partners, but certainly church deliverance

2573
02:30:07,840 --> 02:30:11,920
teams and careernos of our workers as well. There are

2574
02:30:12,120 --> 02:30:16,159
certain departments within the church being with the different type

2575
02:30:16,159 --> 02:30:19,399
of canosis and there that are incredibly aware. There aren't

2576
02:30:19,399 --> 02:30:24,680
necessarily in parapsychological developments, of paranormal investigation developments and the

2577
02:30:24,760 --> 02:30:29,559
intersection between paranormal investigation and the desire for free locations.

2578
02:30:30,040 --> 02:30:33,319
So this public perception of places like centeries, rave the arts,

2579
02:30:33,399 --> 02:30:37,319
various splaces, even churches or places of public access, public

2580
02:30:37,399 --> 02:30:41,920
ownership and therefore completely revible public engagement regardless of the

2581
02:30:42,079 --> 02:30:45,239
nature that engagement has become a real issue. And so

2582
02:30:45,559 --> 02:30:49,280
a lot of different dioceses are having crisis books to

2583
02:30:49,399 --> 02:30:52,920
put in the CCTV the policies and be very very

2584
02:30:52,959 --> 02:30:55,520
careful about what public policies they put out and also

2585
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:58,559
what behavior they call that because a lot of investigating

2586
02:30:58,680 --> 02:31:01,920
just build into churches that with various spaces and lie straight.

2587
02:31:01,959 --> 02:31:04,600
Because TikTok and Instagram, Facebook has been a real light,

2588
02:31:05,079 --> 02:31:07,879
they will listen produce concept of these spaces. But a

2589
02:31:07,959 --> 02:31:12,239
lot of dioceses and a lot of large sentry trusts

2590
02:31:12,280 --> 02:31:15,959
a lot of challenges. They're very very grate to speak

2591
02:31:16,000 --> 02:31:19,079
out and say don't do this here. Others they believe

2592
02:31:19,120 --> 02:31:22,159
and I acknowledge learns people's our courage like so with

2593
02:31:22,319 --> 02:31:25,719
from bad side things there are massive issues, but it's

2594
02:31:25,799 --> 02:31:27,840
that we need to speak out, but we don't know

2595
02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:30,000
how to and how would it reach the VIT people

2596
02:31:30,159 --> 02:31:33,360
without reaching everyone, And then before you know it, there's

2597
02:31:33,360 --> 02:31:35,719
six hundred people with go stacks in the cemetery. Go

2598
02:31:35,840 --> 02:31:38,399
byby start.

2599
02:31:45,719 --> 02:31:49,200
Speaker 1: So that was excerpts there from the Seriously Strange Conference

2600
02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:52,000
in Winchester. I hope you found that of interest, and

2601
02:31:52,479 --> 02:31:54,280
hopefully I'll be able to tend that next year as

2602
02:31:54,319 --> 02:31:56,760
well and get some more interesting reports here. So this

2603
02:31:56,879 --> 02:32:00,520
is Neil war reporting on location in Winch for the

2604
02:32:00,600 --> 02:32:05,120
Seriously Strange Conference on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Join

2605
02:32:05,200 --> 02:32:07,479
us next month on the Paranormal Peep Show with myself

2606
02:32:07,559 --> 02:32:08,600
and Andy Cheers.

2607
02:32:08,719 --> 02:32:09,120
Speaker 2: Good night,