Speaker 1: Okay, we're live. Hi, this is William Ramsey. Welcome to
Speaker 1: William Ramsey investigates on today's show of a very special guest,
Speaker 1: a return Against. His name is Philip Fairbanks. We talked
Speaker 1: back November six, twenty twenty about a book. He just published,
Speaker 1: an excellent book. The title of that book was Pedalgate
Speaker 1: Primer The Politics Politics of Pedophiliam and his website is
Speaker 1: his full name phil Fairbanks dot com. You can see
Speaker 1: it on the screen here on YouTube. But I was
Speaker 1: looking around. I've done some research recently and I've had
Speaker 1: this consistent kind of name pop up over and over
Speaker 1: of mk Ultra. So I did an interview with somebody
Speaker 1: about the killing of Martin Luther King, and the author's
Speaker 1: name was let's see, I can't remember it right now,
Speaker 1: but the book was Who Really Killed MLK? And mk
Speaker 1: Ultra popped up. So I was like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that James rol Ray was affiliated with the mk
Speaker 1: ulture program. And then I've been looking through some other
Speaker 1: stuff and I watched this video I know about Sirhan Sirhand.
Speaker 1: I've interviewed Lisa Piece, who might have a number one
Speaker 1: book about that case, and his whole mk Ultra connection.
Speaker 1: And then I really watched a really good video which
Speaker 1: I can post here and i'll post in the show notes.
Speaker 1: I recommend people check it out. It's the title of
Speaker 1: it on YouTube is can you Be Programmed to Kill?
Speaker 1: On Command? Sir Han's fascinating story and is put together
Speaker 1: by Chase Hughes who runs the Behavior Panel. And then
Speaker 1: you need to check out the Behavior panel too. Oh really,
Speaker 1: really really fantastic how these guys can put people together.
Speaker 1: So it's really kind of about human behavior, but it's
Speaker 1: also about our history. It's kind of like a lost
Speaker 1: history chault, which I do in some research, but it's
Speaker 1: a long thing, and it also pops up in Chaos
Speaker 1: who I interviewed Tom O'Neil about Operation Chaos and Jolly West.
Speaker 1: But we can talk more about that. So Philip Fairbanks,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thanks for coming back. Oh thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Awesome. So for people who may not
Speaker 1: have heard our earlier interview, can you kind of talk
Speaker 1: about your background? And you had done an interview about
Speaker 1: this subject of mk Ultra, which is why I reached
Speaker 1: out to you. Can can you talk about that then
Speaker 1: we can kind.
Speaker 2: Of oh yeah, well, you know Honestly, I think mk
Speaker 2: Ultra was probably one of those like turning points I was.
Speaker 2: I was eighteen when I first learned about it. I
Speaker 2: had recently turned eighteen, you know, and I don't know
Speaker 2: as soon like when I first heard about well, the
Speaker 2: CIA did mind control experiments with LSD, and I heard
Speaker 2: it from a guy who was like an acid head.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, this guy's making this stuff up. This
Speaker 2: guy's crazy. And then I look it up. I look
Speaker 2: up mk ultra and well that's all she wrote. It
Speaker 2: was definitely a major turning point for me. I think
Speaker 2: there's some things that you can learn that once you
Speaker 2: kind of wake up to that it colors everything else,
Speaker 2: you know, you'll see to date. And mk ulture was
Speaker 2: definitely definitely the case for me. You know, It's it's
Speaker 2: something that I've been interested in for years. And one
Speaker 2: of the things is, you know, everybody gets hung up
Speaker 2: on the LSD stuff, and you know, and that's a
Speaker 2: big part of it. But I think it's a lot
Speaker 2: bigger than that, you know. I think that the cultural
Speaker 2: control stuff, like you know, the the CCF, the Congress
Speaker 2: for Cultural Freedom and you know, the Human Ecology Fund,
Speaker 2: you know, working in anthropology, and you know, there's a
Speaker 2: whole lot more to it than just you know, Kentuckians
Speaker 2: up for seven days straight on LSD and you know,
Speaker 2: all that stuff's really interesting too. But you know, especially
Speaker 2: in recent years, that and another thing that I'm really
Speaker 2: fascinated by is noticing these institutes, these institutions that pop
Speaker 2: up over and over again, you know, universeveries. Often they'll
Speaker 2: have a BSL three or BSL four lab. You know,
Speaker 2: that's another thing that I see a lot, you know,
Speaker 2: the connection between like Stargate and mk ultra, the connection
Speaker 2: between biological Warfare and mk ultra. You know, there's all
Speaker 2: these little tangents. So it's it's it's a whole lot
Speaker 2: more than just LSD experimentation, though.
Speaker 1: I agree. Can you talk about those two things, the
Speaker 1: Human Ecology Fund and the CCF, because they do tie
Speaker 1: into just how broad and vast mk ultra was. People
Speaker 1: don't know. But you'd had tons of subparts.
Speaker 2: Right, oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, Yeah, there's there's like, you know,
Speaker 2: over one hundred subprojects.
Speaker 1: You know, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Started out as Project Bluebird, then later became a Project Artichoke,
Speaker 2: and then in nineteen fifty three it became mk Ultra
Speaker 2: and all those you know, different subprojects. But you know,
Speaker 2: apart from the you know, awful human experimentation and whatnot, Uh,
Speaker 2: there was a huge cultural control element. You know, you've
Speaker 2: got a mocking bird where we have you know, uh, basically,
Speaker 2: you know, folks embedded within the media. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: editors and owners of newspapers and magazines, reporters running their
Speaker 2: stories by the CIA. Uh even after the Church Committee hearings,
Speaker 2: you know, uh Bernstein, Carl Bernstein wrote the piece at
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone about the CIA uh using reporters because a
Speaker 2: lot of that was held back. You know, they were
Speaker 2: fine with letting people know, oh yeah, you know, we
Speaker 2: we dosed people with LSD without their knowledge. We did
Speaker 2: these awful experiments, but they wanted to keep that part secret, uh,
Speaker 2: even when the Church Committee. So that tells me that
Speaker 2: that's that's important stuff. You know, the Paris Review, Kenyon Review,
Speaker 2: all these major like literary and art journals, uh are
Speaker 2: are getting c i A money through front organizations, you know,
Speaker 2: the the Human Ecology Fund SRI. Uh. You know that
Speaker 2: that's just just a couple of examples. I also recently
Speaker 2: read an article by Julian Assange from Wiki leagues on
Speaker 2: the take and loving it when I was looking up
Speaker 2: the Human Ecology Fund, because once again, the stuff that
Speaker 2: they were doing in the social sciences and anthropology, uh,
Speaker 2: stuff like Stanley Milgrim's Conformity Experiment or the excuse me,
Speaker 2: Solomon Ash Conformity Experiment, the Stanley Milgram consent to Authority Experiment,
Speaker 2: Phillips Lombardo's Stanford Prison Experiment, all this kind of research,
Speaker 2: you know, and even going back to like you know, uh,
Speaker 2: doctor Watson and Baby Albert. You know a lot of
Speaker 2: this you know, early behaviorism stuff, and then.
Speaker 1: You know that was financed through the now Watson and whatnot.
Speaker 2: That comes a little earlier, and that's another that's another
Speaker 2: issue that that I think is worth bringing up. You know,
Speaker 2: the the received history of m k Ultra is what
Speaker 2: happened was we had these you know, soldiers who were
Speaker 2: brainwashed by the North Koreans, and so now we know
Speaker 2: that they've got this technology and we've got we've got
Speaker 2: to get it ourselves. Now. I don't buy that story
Speaker 2: because if you look at the Wendell Johnson Monster Experiment,
Speaker 2: if you look at Ghsterbrooks, we were already working on
Speaker 2: this stuff in the thirties and forties, right, you know,
Speaker 2: we like to blame it on the Nazis. Oh well,
Speaker 2: you know that was just human experimentation the Nazis were
Speaker 2: doing and when they were brought over in Project paper
Speaker 2: Clip by the CIA.
Speaker 1: No, we were already some of the experiments that were
Speaker 1: going on in.
Speaker 2: The US inspired the Nazis before they got imported after Nuremberg.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, the the complicity of academia is a
Speaker 2: big part of this.
Speaker 1: It really is the media. You know, like once again people.
Speaker 2: Think mind control, they don't think how subtle mind control
Speaker 2: can be. And I think that the cultural element. I
Speaker 2: think that's the reason why you know, there's so much
Speaker 2: emphasis on just the LSD stuff, because the cultural control element,
Speaker 2: that's where it gets really really subversive, right right.
Speaker 1: No, that's a great point. And calling it mind control
Speaker 1: is like calling something cooking. It's a general term. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many some points about shaping history, shaping culture,
Speaker 1: Like you said, in the Human Ecology Fund, I think
Speaker 1: that comes into Timothy Leary when he was at Harvard
Speaker 1: thinking that he got money from the Human Ecology Fund
Speaker 1: for LSD. And uh, I mean there's just so many players.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about some of the main names, like
Speaker 1: you talked about Esterbrooks and was it the Quiet Room
Speaker 1: or whatever, the Silent Room? Can you talk about what
Speaker 1: he was up to?
Speaker 2: A yeah, g Hsterbrooks ruined the mind of Candy Jones.
Speaker 2: Candy Jones was an unfortunate subject who uh, you know,
Speaker 2: Esterbrooks was looking on a way to create like basically
Speaker 2: a perfect spy who wouldn't fold or buckle under torture.
Speaker 2: You can keep torturing them, but they don't have the
Speaker 2: information until you say the secret code word. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's really interesting to me because Esterbrooks was uh, you know,
Speaker 2: he's uh, he's influential to some of the people who
Speaker 2: would be involved in the false memory syndrome foundation as well,
Speaker 2: which is which is in the news today, which considering
Speaker 2: the whole idea of creating a dissociative uh disorder where
Speaker 2: you have you know, the the personality splits and you
Speaker 2: have these specific alters. That's literally the idea of dissociative
Speaker 2: identity disorder, which oddly enough, the false memory people are
Speaker 2: very against the like no, that that can't be done.
Speaker 2: So you know, it does make you wonder why you know,
Speaker 2: guys like Morris West u or Lewis West and Jollian West, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, I recently got, uh you know, I'll
Speaker 2: have to email those too.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: I got a couple of PDFs. I'm collecting some stuff
Speaker 2: from the u U c l A's Library Special Collection
Speaker 2: and you know, just really fascinating stuff. I got a
Speaker 2: couple of folders so far. One on the his work
Speaker 2: with cults and the Cult Awareness Network and also yes
Speaker 2: he was everywhere, Oh yeah, yeah, Jonestown Scientology, Charles Manson,
Speaker 2: Jack Ruby, Timothy McVeigh.
Speaker 1: Over and over again again.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it's really it's really really uh suspicious where
Speaker 2: this guy shows up.
Speaker 1: But sorry you because you mentioned the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.
Speaker 1: I want to put up on YouTube this document from
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four and it details the executive directors and
Speaker 1: some of the people on the Professional Advisory Board. If
Speaker 1: you look on the bottom, it says Lewis Jollian West, right,
Speaker 1: but other names there and some of these are like
Speaker 1: the usual suspects, Richard Offsheet, Martin Orne, and the kicker
Speaker 1: is Elizabeth Loftis And do you know where Elizabeth Loftus is?
Speaker 2: And absolutely yeah, I've actually spoken with her.
Speaker 1: I've of course fonded a little bit. Yeah, where is
Speaker 1: she to tell the audience where she is?
Speaker 2: I think she just got done testifying indefensive Galain Maxwell.
Speaker 1: And you know, I saw somebody pointed out on Twitter
Speaker 1: the other day.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's kind of mind blowing the thing
Speaker 2: that the woman who defended Ted Bundy when he was
Speaker 2: just up on kidnapping charge before he broke out of
Speaker 2: jail and killed more women. That was Elizabeth Loftus, you know,
Speaker 2: uh O J Simpson, Bill Cosby, Uh, you know, just
Speaker 2: all the Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein. You know, I remember
Speaker 2: talking to her and I was asking if the hate
Speaker 2: mail had subsided, and she's like, well, you know, I
Speaker 2: was in the defense of a very unpopular person. I'm like,
Speaker 2: but you mean Harvey Weinstein, right, like you know, And.
Speaker 3: I honestly kind of feel bad for her a little
Speaker 3: bit because I don't know if she realizes that it
Speaker 3: opposed me to world defending and I know, you know,
Speaker 3: the the party line is I'm not defending them, I'm
Speaker 3: just entering the science into the courtroom.
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, but you're also being paid by the defense
Speaker 2: of awful people, so you are technically defending them.
Speaker 1: She has a choice, she doesn't have to do it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it's six hundred and fifty to seven
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty an hour.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I encourage people who are interested check out the cross
Speaker 2: examination in the Robert Durst trial is It is fascinating stuff.
Speaker 2: And I honestly don't think she gets though how much
Speaker 2: this is going to hurt her, you know, legacy, because
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think I think maybe she's misled
Speaker 2: on some things. I think she's been used by some
Speaker 2: bad people. But I don't necessarily disagree with a lot
Speaker 2: of the science. I disagree with how it's applied and generalized.
Speaker 2: Like the she did the lost in the Mall study
Speaker 2: and the lost in the Mall study. They were trying
Speaker 2: to implant false memories in people of being lost in
Speaker 2: the mall when they're a kid, and then they wanted
Speaker 2: to apply that to you know, can people be implanted
Speaker 2: with false memories of abuse?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: One big problem with this there's another study that they
Speaker 2: did where instead of being lost in the mall, they said,
Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah, you got you had your the
Speaker 2: thermo or rectal thermometer you had your temperature taken rectally. Uh,
Speaker 2: And it was a lot harder to convince people that
Speaker 2: something had penetrated their orifice than that they'd.
Speaker 1: Been lost in them all, lost in them all. That's easy.
Speaker 2: You can convince somebody that they were lost in them
Speaker 2: all and they'll start remembering the person who found them,
Speaker 2: if a trusted family member or something starts talking about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so, uh, I do believe that there's there's
Speaker 2: a lot to uh, you know what, what she's done.
Speaker 2: It's you know, applicable, it's it's good science. I just
Speaker 2: disagree with how that's it's kind of applied towards the
Speaker 2: idea of abuse, because traumatic memory doesn't work the same
Speaker 2: as regular memory, you know, And like that's one of
Speaker 2: the things when I talked to her, you know, we
Speaker 2: were talking about like pregnancy. There are people who go
Speaker 2: into fugue states during pregnancy. They're you know, soldiers who
Speaker 2: have you know, memory blocks and memory loss due to trauma.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: She argued that it's kind of apples to oranges there,
Speaker 2: and that there's other factors like, oh, they didn't get
Speaker 2: enough sleep, and there's traumatic brain injury maybe, etcetera. Etcetera, etcetera. Well,
Speaker 2: a lot of that kind of thing is happening in
Speaker 2: a case of you know, physical or sexual abuse too.
Speaker 2: If you're living with someone who's abusing you, you might
Speaker 2: you know, you might not get enough sleep, and you
Speaker 2: might also be being physically abused and you know, so
Speaker 2: if it applies there, I do believe that you could
Speaker 2: get a similar kind of state of you know, memory
Speaker 2: loss or more so a memory block. I think, because
Speaker 2: you know, there's some things that I believe that our
Speaker 2: brain does try to protect us from. Uh uh and
Speaker 2: uh for whatever reasons though, And by the way, loftus
Speaker 2: Well also was a consultant for the CIA. Martin Orn,
Speaker 2: who's tied to mk Ultra was was the one who
Speaker 2: invited her onto the Scientific Advisory Boards. So you know, uh,
Speaker 2: there there are a lot of people who I would
Speaker 2: call like m k Alt adjacent. Michael Persinger is another one,
Speaker 2: by the way, uh he he. He developed this helmet
Speaker 2: with these electrodes that would stimulate the temporal lobe, which
Speaker 2: you know in in like some people who are mystics
Speaker 2: and some people who are artists sometimes have issues with
Speaker 2: their temporal lobe, which causes you know, some uh, strange
Speaker 2: mental phenomenon.
Speaker 1: So you know, he was.
Speaker 2: Able to kind of like simulate something like a religious
Speaker 2: experience using electrodes. And you know, I find that really interesting,
Speaker 2: is it? It reminds me of you know, Nexium did
Speaker 2: some weird like MK ultra style experiments, which I honestly
Speaker 2: believe that that cults were probably or at least possibly
Speaker 2: used within mk Ultra I think, I think, uh that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it blows my mind. How doctor West. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm reading through all these letters he's sending trying to
Speaker 2: get donation money for Cult Awareness Network, which ended up
Speaker 2: being taken over by scientologists later. That's that's an interesting
Speaker 2: side note to the folder I've got. You see that
Speaker 2: happening like in real time. Uh, but it blows my
Speaker 2: mind because he's talking about all these coercive cults and
Speaker 2: the things that they do, and I'm like, are you
Speaker 2: is your issue really just the competition, because what these
Speaker 2: cults are doing is not worse than what the MK
Speaker 2: Ultra scientists were doing with psychic driving and sleep in
Speaker 2: all this literal mental torture. And now speaking of sleep deprivation,
Speaker 2: that's another one of the most interesting things about these folders.
Speaker 2: I'm getting from the Special Collection is seeing the original
Speaker 2: typewritten documents and then seeing what was changed afterwards. Like,
Speaker 2: for instance, at one point, doctor West is talking about
Speaker 2: what is it? Uh, He's talking about how you know,
Speaker 2: sleep deprivation is helpful for extracting extracting information, and then
Speaker 2: it's like crossed out and it says effective. And I'm
Speaker 2: you know, I really wonder if that was him or
Speaker 2: his secretary who was like, now, we probably shouldn't say
Speaker 2: torture is helpful.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing that was, Like what West would
Speaker 1: write stuff that he clearly knew. Yeah, I mean so,
Speaker 1: like there was a paper that he wrote in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty five titled the Dangers of Hypnosis, which he said
Speaker 1: dangerous groups led by crackpots who will hypnotize their file
Speaker 1: and followers into violent criminality. He knows that's happening because
Speaker 1: he's doing it. Yeah, so that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, you know we mentioned Sir Hans Sirhan earlier.
Speaker 1: Sir Han joined the.
Speaker 2: Rosicrucians and was hypnotized, and the rosa Crucians told him
Speaker 2: write down all your thoughts in this notebook and do
Speaker 2: mirror gazing exercises. You know, I really do believe that,
Speaker 2: Like I don't believe Sir Hans Sirhan killed RFK. I
Speaker 2: believe that he was there in order to shoot a
Speaker 2: bunch of you know, to shoot a gun and have
Speaker 2: everyone look at him so that the people who actually
Speaker 2: did it got away. You know, he was seen on
Speaker 2: a range with the woman in a polka dot dress,
Speaker 2: and that same woman shows up at the assassination. There
Speaker 2: were more bullets fired than were in sir Han's gun.
Speaker 2: The bullets that went through RFK were a different caliber.
Speaker 2: But of course the LAPD lost the door, they lost,
Speaker 2: they burnt the pictures, you know, just a coincidence, kind
Speaker 2: of like a.
Speaker 1: Huge evidentiary cover up in them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just they didn't even like,
Speaker 2: they didn't even try that hard. It feels like like,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going to do a cover up,
Speaker 2: you should cover up the fact that you covered it up.
Speaker 2: But no, we know how many shots were fired because
Speaker 2: you can hear it, and there are still some surviving
Speaker 2: pictures where we see how many bullet holes are in
Speaker 2: the wall and the ceiling.
Speaker 1: So no, there's all kinds of problems with that. At
Speaker 1: least of Peace actually said that she thought that he
Speaker 1: was a selected and he disappeared for like ten days
Speaker 1: or two weeks or something, and she thinks that's where
Speaker 1: he might have gone to be programmed in LA, which
Speaker 1: we know these guys were around at that time.
Speaker 2: There were Yeah, yeah, West was at UCLA the neurobiology
Speaker 2: or Neuroscyie.
Speaker 1: Psychiatric Institute nineteen sixty nine to nineteen eighty nine. It
Speaker 1: was when he was there. But there was another character
Speaker 1: whose name I can't remember, who was also doing this stuff.
Speaker 1: His name was oh Man, I can't remember it right now.
Speaker 1: But there was another guy around LA who was another
Speaker 1: one of these doctors. And uh, but Lisa Peace said
Speaker 1: that Sir Hen, Sir Hen was probably selected, but she
Speaker 1: thought that they placed or somebody placed in all the
Speaker 1: opportunities of where Robert Kennedy was going to go out
Speaker 1: of the Ambassador Hotel. That there were different teams there
Speaker 1: with different Patsy's, can you believe it, right, So they
Speaker 1: were gonna get him one way or the other.
Speaker 2: One Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you know, it's kind of
Speaker 2: similar with the jfk assassination. It's likely that there were
Speaker 2: at least a couple of attempts around that same time.
Speaker 1: Uh, they tried to kill in Chicago and Miami. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they definitely weren't gonna leave anything up to chance.
Speaker 2: They were gonna wait until the perfect moment. They had
Speaker 2: all their contingency plans blocked out.
Speaker 1: And the whole bit.
Speaker 2: About the cover up, you know, that's mk Ultra too,
Speaker 2: Project Mockingbird. You know, the the control of the media
Speaker 2: because people believe that if a story is.
Speaker 1: That big, it will get out.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not gonna get out if all the mainstream
Speaker 2: press is under the auspices of the CIA. Then if
Speaker 2: there's a CIA hit or you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: even with John Lennon, uh, the the guy at the door, Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, his doorman had some CIA connections, like going
Speaker 2: all the way back to Kennedy and the Cuba stuff.
Speaker 1: It's you know, right, was a Cuban immigrant, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who'd done some work with like he was he
Speaker 2: was potentially tied to the CIA stuff. It's it's uh,
Speaker 2: it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play this video. Let me play the end
Speaker 1: of the studio of Chase Hughes talking about can you
Speaker 1: be programmed to kill? On command? Sir Ans fascinating story.
Speaker 4: So partnering with the mob, yeah, we know that also
Speaker 4: for a fact. So investigators tell us that this ranch
Speaker 4: where Seirhan worked as a stable boy, the operator of
Speaker 4: this ranch had ties to the mafia, and that the
Speaker 4: mafia in turn had links to the CIA from their
Speaker 4: work together trying to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro. And then
Speaker 4: in Pasadena, Sirhan met a guy only known as Radio Man,
Speaker 4: and he's this guy who Sirhan met that shared Sirhan's
Speaker 4: amazing interest in short wave radios. And they believe that
Speaker 4: Radio Man used what they call walking coercive persuasion and
Speaker 4: what they say is quote possibly hypnosis end quote to
Speaker 4: control Sirhan. And an investigator wrote the statements about killing
Speaker 4: RFK written in mister Sirhan's spiral notebooks, which Syrahan did
Speaker 4: not remember writing. Quote were written by mister Sirhan in
Speaker 4: a hypnotic state and while communicating with a third party
Speaker 4: over his shortwave radio, and thus were coercively and involuntarily induced.
Speaker 4: Over the next two years, Searhan began visiting firing ranges
Speaker 4: not far from the ranch, with guidance from this radio
Speaker 4: Man on how to shoot at targets, and he spent
Speaker 4: about six hours at the range on the day of
Speaker 4: the assassination. So if you're able to hypnotically program somebody
Speaker 4: to completely forget an entire event, also make them commit
Speaker 4: murder under hypnosis, and even make them act on command
Speaker 4: from a pinch on the neck by a woman in
Speaker 4: a polka dot dress, you think you might be able
Speaker 4: to make them also write something in a journal. I'm
Speaker 4: just saying, So let's dissect how this all could have worked.
Speaker 4: Hypnosis is largely about three main things, association, suggestibility, and focus,
Speaker 4: And as focus becomes sharpened onto a single thing, hopefully
Speaker 4: the hypnotist or the hypnotist voice, suggestibility continues to escalate,
Speaker 4: as does dissociation. Association is just separation from self like
Speaker 4: feeling like your conscious mind and unconscious mind are two
Speaker 4: different entities, and children who grow up with trauma get
Speaker 4: really good at association, and some people might mistakenly call
Speaker 4: this compartmentalization, But that's a completely another show we can
Speaker 4: do on that. Sear him and descriptions from every expert
Speaker 4: who's interviewed him. Even in the opinion of the prosecution's expert,
Speaker 4: witness had no mental issues he was the ideal candidate,
Speaker 4: not just for hypnosis but full on programming with on
Speaker 4: demand amnesia just kind of just jabbed into the soft
Speaker 4: So this is a story about the inexplicable things a
Speaker 4: country will do to maintain power while they're calling power
Speaker 4: peace and the after effects of the mk ulture program
Speaker 4: I'm sure will be felt by thousands of people for
Speaker 4: decades to come. It literally changed history. But here's the
Speaker 4: really scary part to me. The mind control program officially
Speaker 4: ended in nineteen seventy three when a Congressman yanked back
Speaker 4: curtain on this whole thing, figured it out super pissed off.
Speaker 4: But every time a giant conspiracy gets revealed, even with
Speaker 4: Eric Snowden's big reveal, we get told that it's all
Speaker 4: in the past, And for the last two hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty years, we're continually reassured that nothing like this happens
Speaker 4: anymore until something else gets exposed. So seer Hand has
Speaker 4: been in prison for fifty one years at the time
Speaker 4: that I'm making this video for you, and the board
Speaker 4: has just now recommended him for parole. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of evidence I didn't cover.
Speaker 1: In this video.
Speaker 4: My goal was to show what's possible, not what necessarily happened.
Speaker 1: All right, Sorry about that. That was probably went pretty long.
Speaker 1: But I think that's really interesting. So it tells you
Speaker 1: kind of what's going on with Sirrin. I recommend people
Speaker 1: watch that whole thing too, By the way, you know, you.
Speaker 2: Know, also that whole case reminds me so much of Pinkley.
Speaker 2: The Phony Must Dies is the Catcher in the Right,
Speaker 2: right down to being encouraged to write down your thoughts
Speaker 2: in a notebook, which incidentally, coincidentally would later be well,
Speaker 2: look see it says here that excuse me, not Pinkley,
Speaker 2: but Chapman. Yeah, the Phony Must Dies, says the Catcher
Speaker 2: in the Right. But yeah, I believe that Chapman and
Speaker 2: Hinckley were also like uh, sir hand style, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, like you start sounding crazy when you start
Speaker 2: talking to candidates. But I think that's why. But what
Speaker 2: year did that movie come out? Right at the same
Speaker 2: time as Bluebird?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Which movie mentoring candidate?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, right before, right before Kennedy's assassination, you know,
Speaker 2: like a year or two before Kennedy's assassination. I think
Speaker 2: that sometimes.
Speaker 1: You can get closer to your mic you're talking from
Speaker 1: the other side of the room.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that a lot of times. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: movies like that and stuff like.
Speaker 1: Straight Philip, phil Can you get closer to your microphone? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Hold on, can you hear me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you fine, But you sound like you're
Speaker 1: talking from the other side of the room.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know you sounded better before or did that?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Oh, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: I don't even.
Speaker 2: But we'll sorry about that.
Speaker 1: Hold on, can you just shove it closer to your mouth?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is this any better?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No? Oh, my gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Anyway. Yeah, no, you you do start to sound crazy.
Speaker 1: But when you put everything together, there's like almost every
Speaker 1: assassination has some kind of MK person, And one of
Speaker 1: the things that kind of came to my attention was
Speaker 1: the name of James o'ray. I never knew that he
Speaker 1: was kind of an MK person. I had no.
Speaker 2: Idea, and he was. He was also tied with with
Speaker 2: gun running, right, But.
Speaker 1: Do you know that he was let out of jail
Speaker 1: like he had some kind of strange thing where he
Speaker 1: got let out of jail sixty seven.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, No, no, I did not know that. That's
Speaker 2: that's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was Chuck Tolsen. So it was the
Speaker 1: lover of uh oh, the guy thehead of the FBI.
Speaker 2: What was his name, uh Hoover.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Tilsen paid off somebody at the warden the
Speaker 1: Missouri State Prison to get James o'ray out because he
Speaker 1: was selected. Oh wow, and he had some mystery guy
Speaker 1: just like radio Man. He had Raoul remember, so some
Speaker 1: kind of person who's never named was his handler, and
Speaker 1: he was probably Mkaid. I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's a That's another thing. You know, you mentioned the mafia,
Speaker 2: you mentioned the Cuban connection, that they really do like
Speaker 2: to use the same networks over and over again. And incidentally,
Speaker 2: you'll see these same networks used for drug running, for
Speaker 2: human trafficking, for gun running. It's you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's the same guys over and over again doing these
Speaker 2: same things. But yeah, no, I I definitely believe that,
Speaker 2: like like the Hinkley thing, I mean, come on, how
Speaker 2: do you buy the story of George H. W. Bush
Speaker 2: has never worked in intelligence? And then they go, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're just gonna make you the king of the CIA.
Speaker 2: Now they don't do that. You don't become the head
Speaker 2: of the CIA with no intelligence background. So what we
Speaker 2: know then is that he's got some intelligence background we
Speaker 2: don't hear about, which is maybe why he was in
Speaker 2: Dallas on that day that Kennedy died, you know. And
Speaker 2: and then when when Reagan was nearly assassinated. I do
Speaker 2: believe that that was a hit. I believe that the
Speaker 2: that Reagan was supposed to die and Bush was supposed
Speaker 2: to become president, and when he didn't, that's you know,
Speaker 2: that that's why you end up with uh, you know,
Speaker 2: George W. Bush, his brother helps him steal the election
Speaker 2: in Florida. What a coincidence, you know, Like they they
Speaker 2: weren't gonna let that go. They they they got put
Speaker 2: back maybe a decade or so. Uh, but but that
Speaker 2: whole bit and and once again this is like, uh,
Speaker 2: it's there's certain families too. It's not just institutions. There's
Speaker 2: certain families, uh, you know, like the the the Bushes
Speaker 2: and the Herman's and you know the Rockefellers. Uh, the church.
Speaker 2: The Church committee hearings are are you know connected to
Speaker 2: the Rockefeller Commission, which is why there was such a
Speaker 2: cover up when m k Ultra did finally come to lie,
Speaker 2: that's why, you know it it took a while another
Speaker 2: year or so, or a few years or so before Bernstein,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of blew the lid wide open on
Speaker 2: the rest of Mockingbird. And how much the media was
Speaker 2: complicit in this.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. And Reagan had just started his presidency if
Speaker 1: you remember, Yeah, I think it was like only in
Speaker 1: office for two months. So like the Chief Benefit, it's simples.
Speaker 2: And the Cold War, you know. Yeah, And of course
Speaker 2: Hinckley was a friend of the Bush family, like.
Speaker 1: One of them, yes, exactly, lital family, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a coincidence. Hinkley by the way, you know
Speaker 2: he's on Twitter now right, No, he's he is a
Speaker 2: folk singer and he shares his music on YouTube and
Speaker 2: uh Spotify and Twitter.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's it's it's kind of bizarre, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know there. Of course, obviously a lot of people
Speaker 2: make the same tired old joke I love your work
Speaker 2: from the eighties over and over again, which was maybe
Speaker 2: funny the first time, but like, no, seriously, come on,
Speaker 2: get give Hinkley a break. He's already spent decades in prison.
Speaker 2: Just let him live his life now.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, crazy stuff. Have you ever heard of Darren Brown?
Speaker 2: Oh I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is good. This guy does mind tricks too.
Speaker 1: He does hypnotism on people. People can check this stuff out.
Speaker 1: But he literally, like ran a fake video game where
Speaker 1: he hypnotized a guy to think that he had been
Speaker 1: transported into the video game. It was incredible. You want
Speaker 1: to watch us. Yeah, let's see. Let me see if
Speaker 1: I can do this. So he this is it. He
Speaker 1: finally this guy is hypnotizable. So I'm gonna play this.
Speaker 1: I'll move it forward, but watch us watch the flashes.
Speaker 1: Put a couple of slashes in.
Speaker 2: Now again.
Speaker 5: Another flash, always going one more.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: See. I don't think this is fake. I think this
Speaker 1: guy's knows how to do this.
Speaker 2: Darren Brown, we've been till that you're playing the game.
Speaker 2: What's his name? That's fine, exactly what that kind?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have they dragging him and put them into
Speaker 1: a room. This is crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the implications of that are pretty scary.
Speaker 1: And then they wake them up there it comes out m.
Speaker 2: M oh gosh, that is seriously scary.
Speaker 1: Some people. There's a hypnotism like scale where some people
Speaker 1: are hyper suggestible.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's a genetic element to that as well. Uh,
Speaker 2: some people are are are going to be more susceptible.
Speaker 2: Some people. Even if you're you're really skilled hypnotists, it's
Speaker 2: it's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just can't do it. I think sir Han
Speaker 1: sir Han was on the far end of the spectrum suggestible.
Speaker 5: H h.
Speaker 1: Because you can watch this, I'll put this in the show.
Speaker 1: But they just they just put him right back out.
Speaker 1: He had no idea much as much they brought him,
Speaker 1: brought him out of the hypnotism, he had no idea.
Speaker 1: Watches let's wake him up.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, waking is it because.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's go.
Speaker 2: The science game.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. It was good.
Speaker 6: It was like, I don't know if it's because it's
Speaker 6: an arcade, but as well, so it's really into it.
Speaker 4: Is it going to be.
Speaker 1: It's it's a product trying to develop it. It was good.
Speaker 1: It was good. It was really.
Speaker 6: Exciting, just realistic shooting them and I don't die, you know,
Speaker 6: you got to keep shooting them and then and then
Speaker 6: when keep coming up against I loved it and I
Speaker 6: just felt like each of them usually the game is
Speaker 6: just a game.
Speaker 1: I just felt had to kill each and every one
Speaker 1: of them had no idea.
Speaker 2: I don't know what you've done.
Speaker 1: The colors or something, but yeah, yeah, you should watch
Speaker 1: the Darren Darren stuff that scouse.
Speaker 2: I think I think a lot of people probably discount
Speaker 2: hypnotism because you know, it seems hokey or silly, and
Speaker 2: like you said, different people are different, and there's a
Speaker 2: genetic element to it. But some people are not very hypnotizable,
Speaker 2: some hardly at all, some not at all, but some
Speaker 2: are highly suggestive. And you know, I I when I
Speaker 2: was my freshman year in college, I was really interested
Speaker 2: in you know, nl P and stuff like this. I
Speaker 2: got into hypnotism for a short time, and it was
Speaker 2: like a party trick. It was a parlor trick I'd
Speaker 2: do with you know, with my my, my dorm mates
Speaker 2: or people hanging out and uh, one thing that I noticed, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I put somebody under and I'd ask him
Speaker 2: to go back to a memory that they wanted to relive.
Speaker 2: And a couple of times, however, it was like you know,
Speaker 2: one of my roommates wants to see his granddad for
Speaker 2: the last time. And these are you know, eighteen nineteen
Speaker 2: year old like frat boys, reduced to tears when they
Speaker 2: come to you know what I mean, because they just
Speaker 2: saw their granddad, Like they remembered what shorts they were
Speaker 2: wearing when they were eight, you know. Then I tried
Speaker 2: one with a girl who came over and was hanging
Speaker 2: out with us. I did not know that she had
Speaker 2: seen her best friend shot and killed recently, and she
Speaker 2: relived that moment. And that was the last time I
Speaker 2: ever attempted hypnosis because it is not something to play with.
Speaker 2: I'll just put it that, like, I didn't know what,
Speaker 2: you know, what to do, Like you know this, there's
Speaker 2: this girl and she's crying because she's just now she
Speaker 2: thanked me. She was like thank you for that, you know.
Speaker 2: Uh she said she felt like some closure. And it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's great, but I don't know what I'm doing with this,
Speaker 2: and it's dangerous to play with people's heads. So that
Speaker 2: was the last time I ever attempted hypnosis. It's it's
Speaker 2: powerful stuff, especially for some people. It's definitely not definitely
Speaker 2: not a toy.
Speaker 1: It's not it's a technique, right, I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: depending It's really depend upon the hypnotist as well, because
Speaker 1: some people are going to hypnotic psychotherapy right for their benefit,
Speaker 1: right to stop smoking or drinking or something. Right. And
Speaker 1: there's stories also that I pulled up. I remember that
Speaker 1: some people go to a hypnotherapists they get raped, like
Speaker 1: some doctors are raping people. There's one guy who got busted.
Speaker 1: There is just one story, but there was another one
Speaker 1: I got to where yeah, bad things happened, and that
Speaker 1: there was another guy I can't remember his name, but
Speaker 1: he used in LA and he used hypnotists, hypnotism and
Speaker 1: bars to get women. Was oh wow, yeah, he knew
Speaker 1: how to do it.
Speaker 2: And there was the speaking of there was a guy
Speaker 2: that bragged about having hypnotized. Sir Hannes, sirhan Frank Olsen,
Speaker 2: the guy who was shoved out of a window after
Speaker 2: being dosed with LSD. He was he was having some
Speaker 2: you know, after they dosed him. He was he was
Speaker 2: already having a crisis of conscience over the biological warfare research,
Speaker 2: and so they sent him to a psychiatrist who hypnotized him.
Speaker 2: The problem is the psychiatrist was an allergist named Harold
Speaker 2: Abramson who worked with m k ultra. He was an allergist.
Speaker 2: He was he worked at an allergy clinic at Mount Sinai,
Speaker 2: which was one of the many institutes that was used
Speaker 2: to run these these you know, human experiments. But yeah, yeah, hypnosis.
Speaker 1: He was one of the first victims to nineteen fifty three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and uh, you know, they they tried to
Speaker 2: make it look like suicide. In fact, around the same
Speaker 2: time that m k ault was being developed was when
Speaker 2: they were trying to find ways to assassinate someone and
Speaker 2: make it look like they did it themselves. So they
Speaker 2: were really testing multiple things at once. With Frank Olsen,
Speaker 2: they were testing assassination methods, they were testing mk ultra,
Speaker 2: they were testing the LSD element of m k AULTR.
Speaker 2: You know, just all this stuff at once. I feel
Speaker 2: like when the CIA does this stuff, they they really
Speaker 2: don't waste a bit of you know, uh, they use
Speaker 2: every bit of bone and flesh. Well, when they when
Speaker 2: they have an operation, it's usually usually there's multiple operatives
Speaker 2: at the same time that are being you know worked on.
Speaker 2: Whenever any one of these there's they're probably working on
Speaker 2: something else as well.
Speaker 1: Right, this, right now is the Report of Psychiatric Examination
Speaker 1: of Jack Ruby twenty sixth of April nineteen sixty four,
Speaker 1: so it's about six months after this is by This
Speaker 1: is a document put together by Jolly West and for
Speaker 1: some reason, I mean, I don't know how this happened,
Speaker 1: but he was allowed into and talked to Jack Ruby,
Speaker 1: and this was what his final designation. Jack Ruby is
Speaker 1: technically insane at this time. He is not capable of
Speaker 1: cooperating intelligently in his own defense. Wow, that's really fortunate when.
Speaker 2: You're done with him, of course, absolutely. Yeah. In fact,
Speaker 2: Ruby was claiming that they were injecting him with things
Speaker 2: to kill him and then he died of cancer after
Speaker 2: he was crazy and nobody would believe it.
Speaker 1: Right, The same thing happened to Rudolph Hess. He said
Speaker 1: he was getting treatment the same way. Some port They
Speaker 1: were putting stuff in his food, which you know he
Speaker 1: had to eat, and uh yeah, there were real questions
Speaker 1: about how how insane was but he claimed the same thing.
Speaker 1: But the yeah, this is super this is super fortunate
Speaker 1: for the government of the conspiracy. One element of the
Speaker 1: conspiracy that they don't go into on Jack Kennedy. Is
Speaker 1: this how did you get rid of Jack Ruby? And
Speaker 1: this is it? Yeah, instead of shooting.
Speaker 2: Is so fascinating because he shows up, you know, for
Speaker 2: decades at the most opportunity moment, you know, the satanic panic,
Speaker 2: the hippies, the cults, all that stuff.
Speaker 1: That's what the false memory syndrome was, was like denying
Speaker 1: pedophile groups, right, wasn't.
Speaker 2: That part of the you had literal like pedophile activists.
Speaker 2: I would call him a Ralph underwager. This guy didn't
Speaker 2: any interview with Padica, a Dutch journal of pedophilia about
Speaker 2: how you know, as a theologist, I believe that pedophiles
Speaker 2: can boldly and courageously affirm their love and it's like, dude,
Speaker 2: what And this is a guy who was an expert
Speaker 2: witness on like two hundred and fifty child abuse cases.
Speaker 2: And we also he also believed that most that most
Speaker 2: cases of abuse were not harmful to the child and
Speaker 2: that most of the ones that were reported were not true.
Speaker 2: He was also one of the founders of Vocal Victims
Speaker 2: of Child Abuse Laws, which Vocal was involved in like
Speaker 2: trying to get rid of mandatory reporting laws in Florida.
Speaker 2: You know, just like this is this is who they're
Speaker 2: working with, just some really really sick folks. James Randy, Uh,
Speaker 2: the amazing Randy, Who's the guy that you know, Uh
Speaker 2: worked so hard to debunk Uri Yeller another uh you
Speaker 2: know for a brief time basically working with the CIA
Speaker 2: at SRI. But yeah, you know, it's a it's.
Speaker 1: It seems like science fiction.
Speaker 2: A lot of this stuff. Yes, it sounds it sounds crazy.
Speaker 2: And you know, I wrote an article about MK ultra
Speaker 2: back in like two thousand and three or two thousand
Speaker 2: and four. I remember it closed off. I was all,
Speaker 2: you know, hopeful about how you know, if only more
Speaker 2: awareness was raised about MK ultra, then you know, then
Speaker 2: what then we'd have a Netflix series called Stranger Things,
Speaker 2: which is a huge hit, and nothing would change because
Speaker 2: even more people would be convinced that it was a
Speaker 2: silly idea that couldn't have been real, you know, like
Speaker 2: the movie Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson. You know, and
Speaker 2: it even has the Catcher and the Rye reference, you know, wow, yeah.
Speaker 1: You know the controller handbook that people people right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Catcher in the Rye was Chapman. Who else had Catcher
Speaker 1: in the Rye was somebody else, but that guy.
Speaker 2: Was oh the right Sallenger. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and you know, I think that uh.
Speaker 2: If you look at the Joker movie, even the Joker
Speaker 2: movie is that same. It's it's an update on the
Speaker 2: Catcher in the Right story, you know, the story of
Speaker 2: a disconcontent of society who's you know, everything's fake, everything's phony,
Speaker 2: just seeking some kind of connection and something genuine. Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, I I think I think that kind of
Speaker 2: person uh makes a really good useful idiot. Unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 2: because if you've got somebody who really believes, who's a
Speaker 2: true believer, you know, people will listen to them, people
Speaker 2: will follow them. So you know, I I I think
Speaker 2: they like the idea of that Catcher and the Rye archetype.
Speaker 2: That's one of the kind of people that they go after.
Speaker 1: Interesting. This is probably one of the more famous books
Speaker 1: about mind control, Walter Bower's book with a four by
Speaker 1: Richard Condon, who wrote The Man Cheering Candidate, right, m
Speaker 1: m oh really yeah, yeah, yeah no, he wrote The
Speaker 1: Manchain Candidate. So but I mean the I mean we
Speaker 1: can get into that. That whole story is incredible because
Speaker 1: Richard Condon wrote The Man Cheering Candidate. The movie was
Speaker 1: made by h I can't remember the director. Do you
Speaker 1: remember you directed The man Cheering Candidate?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, I don't know off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: But the director of the Manchurian Candidate. Do you know
Speaker 1: who was at his house before the shooting of GF
Speaker 1: of RFK? No, RFK, Yeah, the director of Centurion Candidate.
Speaker 1: It's the old one, the nineteen sixty two one. Uh
Speaker 1: huh was John Frankenheimer. And so John Frankenheimer literally had
Speaker 1: RFK over at his house the night or the night
Speaker 1: before RFK was killed by a mind control assassin. And
Speaker 1: the book is about a mind control assassin killing a
Speaker 1: presidential candidate.
Speaker 2: It killed a president.
Speaker 1: You can't write that off the charts. It's the true story.
Speaker 1: Frankenheimer drove RFK to the Ambassador Hotel.
Speaker 2: You know, I sometimes wonder the Discordians. That's another case
Speaker 2: that gets tied into the Kennedy assassination because Carrie Thornley,
Speaker 2: the founder of this counterculture group, was friends with Oswald.
Speaker 2: But like the Discordians, it's Operation Mind. F Ward I'll say,
Speaker 2: but Operation Mind I really do believe that they used
Speaker 2: the counterculture to like kind of you know, work on
Speaker 2: this surreal angle, because some of this stuff is just
Speaker 2: so flat out ridiculous that that your your brain does
Speaker 2: not want to accept it as possible because it is
Speaker 2: it's just too like it. It sounds silly. Oh, there's
Speaker 2: these Nazis who worked with the CIA on mind control
Speaker 2: and then they did a bunch of us at that
Speaker 2: sounds that sounds absolutely lomony tudes. But you know, I
Speaker 2: think that's part. I think that's part of it. They
Speaker 2: ensure that some of this stuff does seem so outlandish
Speaker 2: that it's easy, you know, it's it's it's easy to
Speaker 2: discount it, right.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. The other one, the other guy
Speaker 1: was you and Cameron. That's who I was thinking about
Speaker 1: in camp.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah you ever.
Speaker 1: I mean, those are the stories of the psychic driving.
Speaker 1: He was literally trying to erase people's brains.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. There were there were people who you know, oh,
Speaker 2: they got a little mild anxiety or a touch of
Speaker 2: depression and then they go into the uh uh you know,
Speaker 2: signing to see a doctor and next thing you know,
Speaker 2: they're in a corner and a straight jacket, drilling on themselves.
Speaker 2: And forty years later, uh, you know, their family members
Speaker 2: can't touch them or they you know, go into uh
Speaker 2: shocks and seizures. It's you know it, and bear in
Speaker 2: mind Cameron was the head of the World Psychiatric Association
Speaker 2: for a time, was the head of the American Psychiatric Association,
Speaker 2: was the head of the Canadian Psychiatric Association. The Hoffman Report,
Speaker 2: there's a you know, I recommend people look into the
Speaker 2: Hoffman Report. It's it goes into some of what the
Speaker 2: APA did to skirt ethics, uh, you know with you know,
Speaker 2: UH enhanced interrogation read torture, guntanam obey. Because a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff that was involved in MK ultra, this
Speaker 2: stuff was used as what we what we now call
Speaker 2: enhanced interrogation i e. Torture. A lot of that stuff
Speaker 2: grew out of m k ultreis.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy. I mean, it's just a huge, massive problem.
Speaker 1: I thought I was showing on the screen. I thought
Speaker 1: I was showing this book. I wasn't. But this is
Speaker 1: probably one of the more important books about mind control.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's Marxist, maybe it's the Search for the
Speaker 1: manstream candidate. This is another good one.
Speaker 2: And Marx and Marquetti too, the uh the Cult of Intelligence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard of Marquetti's book. Did he go into
Speaker 1: mind control in that book?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this one just came out this year. I
Speaker 1: tried to get this guy to come on my show.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, the Gottlieb book.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Gottlieb is another character. He was a club footed folk
Speaker 2: dan sir who was basically addicted to goat smelt. I
Speaker 2: mean it sounds like it sounds like a schizophrenic James Bond,
Speaker 2: Like these are Bond villains. I'm an evil science I'm
Speaker 2: an evil, mad scientist who conducts you know, uh. West
Speaker 2: West dosed himself up on LSD at the same time
Speaker 2: as giving an elephant so much LSD exploded, like what
Speaker 2: normal people do.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: A weird thing about West by the way, you know,
Speaker 2: if you've seen if you've ever seen him speak, I saw,
Speaker 2: I saw. I was watching a video recently or rewatching
Speaker 2: where he's talking about scientology. He makes a joke about
Speaker 2: how all the scientologists say I'm with the C I A,
Speaker 2: but they also say I'm with the K G B.
Speaker 2: I guess that makes me a double agent. And I
Speaker 2: find that really cute because he doesn't say he's not
Speaker 2: c I A during that, which you know, like it's
Speaker 2: it's it's undeniable that he worked with the CIA. That's
Speaker 2: that's declassified knowledge. Okay, but yeah, you know, uh West
Speaker 2: and Gottlieb, these guys are they're large, that they're they're
Speaker 2: cartoonishly evil. But at the same time, like I I
Speaker 2: remember seeing on on one of the cover sheets it's
Speaker 2: the facts cover sheet, and uh, he's got pinned in
Speaker 2: there something about can you make make me up a
Speaker 2: few extra of these with no addresses attached, and his
Speaker 2: secretary just writes in all caps, no exclamation part exclamation points,
Speaker 2: it's cute, right, it's it's humanizing jolly.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the letters, somebody says, dear Jolly, he was
Speaker 2: called jolly. He was kind of a jolly guy. He
Speaker 2: was you know, uh, he was a humorous guy.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: It blows my mind that, like you've got these people
Speaker 2: doing these awful things, and then they go home to
Speaker 2: the and and you know, uh, they kiss their wife and.
Speaker 1: They're like not the Nazi concentration camp doctors like mangling.
Speaker 1: They go back on another day at work, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go poison some people.
Speaker 2: And then and then you go to church on Sunday
Speaker 2: and then you coach the little league softball game. It's
Speaker 2: just it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1: It really is. Mind control is mind blowing. These guys
Speaker 1: are very normalized, and I think it's interesting if you
Speaker 1: take the real broad angle lens, that these psychiatrists were
Speaker 1: treating people and helping them with their problems at the
Speaker 1: same time they were fronts for c I A mind
Speaker 1: control experiments. So like there may be just one guy,
Speaker 1: you know, today I'm helping somebody who has postpartum depression,
Speaker 1: or somebody is a lot losing a loved one, and
Speaker 1: then you get treated with mind control, you know, like
Speaker 1: that's what happened with you and Cameron. But how many
Speaker 1: other stories are there for these guys like cross ethical
Speaker 1: lines and manipulate them. Oh yeah, because puppeteering tons of people.
Speaker 1: It was like a puppeteering show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. I found something kind of interesting
Speaker 2: as doctor Heath was approached. This is one of the
Speaker 2: first guys he pioneered using him playing electrodes in the brain.
Speaker 2: And this is a guy doctor Heath at TULE and
Speaker 2: the CIA comes to him after a symposium in New
Speaker 2: Orleans in November of nineteen sixty two New Orleans. So
Speaker 2: you know, you've got at the same time as Lee
Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald is picking up his pro Cuba pamphlets from
Speaker 2: the office of ex FBI and CIA anti Cuba people
Speaker 2: at the same time and places that's going on, You've
Speaker 2: got doctor Heath. And what's ironic is this guy's a
Speaker 2: pretty controversial figure because he also pioneered electro shock used,
Speaker 2: as you know, on homosexuals for you know, like reprogramming
Speaker 2: homosexuals into being straight or trying to uh. And even
Speaker 2: this guy who was willing to shock gay people straight,
Speaker 2: he he just felt it was absolutely the quote is abhorrent, abhorrent.
Speaker 2: I took the stand if I were going to be
Speaker 2: a spy, I'd be a spy. I wanted to be
Speaker 2: a doctor in practice medicine. He felt it was, you know,
Speaker 2: a violation of Hippocratic ohs, which we don't even need
Speaker 2: to bring Hippocrates into this. This is you know, this
Speaker 2: is basic ethical considerations. You just don't ruin people's lives
Speaker 2: and minds. You know, that's that's basic stuff, which once again,
Speaker 2: I you know, it's it's so weird to me that
Speaker 2: the same guy West the same guy who is claiming
Speaker 2: that he's against cults because of the things that they
Speaker 2: do to people. And I'm like this for decades, Philip.
Speaker 1: That's the whole thing that's so remarkable is that he's
Speaker 1: against the things, but he's writing papers about the use them. Yes,
Speaker 1: look at there's another one. It's hallucinations, behavior, experience, and theory.
Speaker 1: He is discussing selective drug prohibition, but he's also saying
Speaker 1: these things can be used as manipulation ye selected components
Speaker 1: of the population since as members of certain minority groups
Speaker 1: or organizations can be targeted. Control can be through prohibition
Speaker 1: or supply. Total or even partial prohibition of drugs gives
Speaker 1: the government considerable leverage of other types of control.
Speaker 2: Right, that's that. I'm glad you brought that up, because
Speaker 2: that's another point of the cultural control factor. You know,
Speaker 2: John Potash his book Drugs His Weapon Against as Weapons
Speaker 2: Against His I highly recommend that because once again, the
Speaker 2: sale and use of drugs, the deployment of certain drugs,
Speaker 2: that's a big part of the cultural and societal control
Speaker 2: element of mind control. You know, it's it's once again,
Speaker 2: it's not all about hypnosis and LSD. Sometimes it's as
Speaker 2: simple as you get people in a desperate, addicted space
Speaker 2: space or in a certain mindset, and they are more
Speaker 2: easily controlled.
Speaker 1: One of the examples is this whole situation with COVID
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of living through that. They were
Speaker 1: using the most vicious for mind control techniques, shaping, controlling information,
Speaker 1: I mean no violence, but just incorpordible control, looting, I
Speaker 1: mean massive wealth transference. It benefited that all these small
Speaker 1: businesses went down, mind can.
Speaker 2: That's another thing that it's it's it's a huge like
Speaker 2: trillions disappeared from the uh working in middle class is
Speaker 2: the same time as the trillion dollar businesses had their
Speaker 2: best two years. Now. It's so I don't think that's
Speaker 2: a that's a coincidence. And yes, absolutely, the whole COVID thing,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a marvelous Uh. You know it. It's
Speaker 2: a masterclass in in subtle conditioning and control. And you know,
Speaker 2: like Edward Burnetz and Ivy Lee, you know, I vy
Speaker 2: Lee is william S Burrow's uncle.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, the PR and marketing are a form of
Speaker 2: mind control. You know why why do you think? What
Speaker 2: do you think an American PR firm got a Kuwaiti
Speaker 2: princess to stand in front of Congress and seeing n
Speaker 2: making up an absolutely invented story about how she was
Speaker 2: a nurse and the Iraqis were pulling babies from incubators,
Speaker 2: and then George Bush repeated the false story that was
Speaker 2: literally Knowlton Hill pr Firm. They you know, So that's
Speaker 2: the manufacture of consent, so to speak, for the the
Speaker 2: Gulf War.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's listen to Jolly West for a few minutes.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's a he's listed here as a human
Speaker 1: rights activist.
Speaker 2: Oh this is Mark Bonker's video.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at this clapping too. This guy is about
Speaker 1: as sinister as it gets.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Hanna, I've heard that extraordinary introduction. I think
Speaker 5: we do have a lot in common. I might even
Speaker 5: have been followed by lots of cars, vans and motorcycles.
Speaker 5: But in Los Angeles, who would notice? In Twelfth Night
Speaker 5: there's a actor who says, sweet are the uses of adversity, which,
Speaker 5: like the toad, ugly and venomous bear's he had a
Speaker 5: precious jewel in its head. As you know, I had
Speaker 5: a little bit of adversity here during the noon hour.
Speaker 5: But something very good came out of it I missed
Speaker 5: my lunch.
Speaker 1: He's good, he knows kind of one of the elements
Speaker 1: of a good speeches always start off with.
Speaker 2: A oh yeah. And he is a funny, charming guy.
Speaker 2: That's what its scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks like kind of like your uncle who
Speaker 1: just starts drinking.
Speaker 2: Like he's he's a funny, jolly guy.
Speaker 1: Jolly.
Speaker 5: I realize I was a bit of a fanatic, But
Speaker 5: what's a fanatic. It's just somebody who can't change his
Speaker 5: mind and don't change the subject.
Speaker 1: Is it just me?
Speaker 2: Or does his pattern not remind you of l Ron
Speaker 2: Hubbard too? Yeah, it's that same kind of pattern. It's
Speaker 2: that same right, wit. It's it's really it's truly ironic,
Speaker 2: considering he was one of the early anti scientology advocates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's probably because he was probably giving him
Speaker 1: all their information.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah at the local police department, each
Speaker 2: of us having conducted the citizens arrest upon the other.
Speaker 1: What I said to him was, son, when you decide
Speaker 1: to leave.
Speaker 5: This outfit, come and see me. And I never dreamed
Speaker 5: at the time that I would be following the evolution
Speaker 5: of this group for the next forty years.
Speaker 1: But I've learned a lot, and I'd like to be able.
Speaker 5: To share it all with you, but I can't compress
Speaker 5: forty years of information gathering into this short hour. What
Speaker 5: I'll try to do, then, is to concentrate on what
Speaker 5: I have whimsically called the scientology Wars and those of
Speaker 5: you who are interested in the nuts and bolts of
Speaker 5: what goes on. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know what to talk about on this one.
Speaker 1: I don't have probably should have watched it, but it
Speaker 1: seems like there's two parts of this thing of him channel. Yeah.
Speaker 2: At some point in one of these is where he
Speaker 2: makes the joke about how the scientologists say that I'm CIA,
Speaker 2: but they also say I'm KGB. I guess that makes
Speaker 2: me a double agent and in it and as the
Speaker 2: crowd goes wild.
Speaker 1: The totality of what he was up to, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He What I love though, is that he doesn't deny
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to. He just makes it sound ridiculous.
Speaker 2: That's mind control. The way he works a crowd is
Speaker 2: subtle mind control.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Uh, It's like I do, Like, I can't help it.
Speaker 2: I find these guys like at first, you know, on
Speaker 2: the one hand, they are cartoonishly evil. But it's more
Speaker 2: than that. I like, you know, I think the fact that,
Speaker 2: like at one point when I when I started to
Speaker 2: think about, like I said, the fact that these people
Speaker 2: had families, these people went to church, these people, you know,
Speaker 2: volunteered in their communities. It's that makes it so much
Speaker 2: scarier that they're not just monsters. You know, there's something
Speaker 2: so much scarier about the fact that they seemed like
Speaker 2: normal people and they weren't just just evil monsters. They
Speaker 2: were also evil monsters, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty incredible how they got
Speaker 1: away with all that, all through secrets. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: classic freaking CIA stuff. You corrupt them from the inside.
Speaker 1: There's some law and mind control ritual abuse pages you've
Speaker 1: come across this website. This is actually very very good
Speaker 1: well research website. Right now, it's a ritual abuse US.
Speaker 1: It actually proves like that there is ritual beasts.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that common, but oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I believe that it's incredibly rare. But just look at Okay,
Speaker 2: take any serial killer's life story, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: whether it's Ed Gan or Henry lu Lucas or or whoever,
Speaker 2: that's basically textbook ritual abuse in a lot of those cases,
Speaker 2: you know, And there's an element of generational ritual abuse
Speaker 2: and torture in those cases. So it doesn't matter. It
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if it's just point one percent. I mean,
Speaker 2: like it didn't matter for COVID, Why should it matter
Speaker 2: for ritual abuse? You know?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I mean yeah, that's crazy. I mean he
Speaker 1: tried to. He tried to get a Nike missile base
Speaker 1: to become a like a place for him to do
Speaker 1: his center for the Prevention of violence. Do you ever
Speaker 1: hear that story?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: No, no, Yeah, so he tried to. I'll read this letter.
Speaker 1: He sent it to a military guy's double bund. Quote.
Speaker 1: I am in possession of confidential information that the Army
Speaker 1: is prepared to turn over Nike missile bases to state
Speaker 1: in local agencies for non military purposes. They may look
Speaker 1: with special favor on health related applications. Such a Nike
Speaker 1: missile base is located in the Santa Monica Mountains, within
Speaker 1: a half hour's drive of the Neuropsychiatric Institute. It is
Speaker 1: accessible but relatively remote. The site is securely fenced and
Speaker 1: includes various buildings and improvements making it suitable for prompt occupancy.
Speaker 1: If this site were made available to the Neuropsychiatric Institute
Speaker 1: as a research facility, perhaps initially as an adjunct adjunct
Speaker 1: to the new Center for the Prevention of Violence, we
Speaker 1: could put it to very good use. Comparative studies could
Speaker 1: be carried out there in an isolated but convenient location
Speaker 1: of experimental or model programs for the alteration of undesirable behavior.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I don't want to be put away
Speaker 2: in the bunker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a clockwerk orange man. Yeah, that's what they're
Speaker 1: going to do there. They called it the Ludovic mac
Speaker 1: that I think in clockwork corners, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh so the guy, Sarah Connor says, the guy that
Speaker 1: killed Rebecca Schaeffer had capturing the ride too.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also have another one. This was another Jolly
Speaker 1: West story that I found, which is from Hearst Patty Hurst. Quote.
Speaker 1: When the first of the psychiatrists came to see me
Speaker 1: on September thirty thirtieth, just eleven days after my arrest,
Speaker 1: I simply crumbled under his scrutiny. I cried, murmuring and
Speaker 1: mumbling out replies that were not answers to his questions.
Speaker 1: He thought I was refusing to cooperate with him. This
Speaker 1: was doctor Lewis Jolian West, chairman of the Department of
Speaker 1: Psychiatry at UCLA, an internationally recognized expert in his field.
Speaker 1: I thought he had a creepy, hypnotic voice, a tall,
Speaker 1: heavyset man who appeared to be kindly. I suspected Jolly
Speaker 1: of being too smooth, too soothing to be trusted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it. Like I kept thinking about, like
Speaker 2: every time I see him in his little jolly expression.
Speaker 2: I imagine being you know, underground on on a sheet
Speaker 2: of acid with a.
Speaker 1: Light in your face, but like in a dark room
Speaker 1: with a light in your face or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I would rather somebody just do conventional torture,
Speaker 2: I think, than be, you know, in a room with
Speaker 2: doctor Jolly laughing. You know.
Speaker 1: I'd just like to start. I would just like to
Speaker 1: start by asking you a few questions.
Speaker 2: No, just kill me, just just torture me or kill
Speaker 2: me or something.
Speaker 1: I'm not here as an adversary, I'm here as a friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Really great book about Patty Hurst is Revolutions End by
Speaker 1: Brad Shriver. I cannot recommend that book enough. It's awesome.
Speaker 1: It's a great piece of investigative reporting. But she knew, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, the Simbuinese Liberation Army was probably part of
Speaker 1: Operation Chaos, if I probably was just developed out of
Speaker 1: the you know, military intelligence or something like that. And
Speaker 1: the guy Quinnsay was was developed. He was just you know,
Speaker 1: a guy who was created and they gave him kind
Speaker 1: of like the software for the Symbionese. Symbionese Liberation Army
Speaker 1: came out and he just fronted it. And one of
Speaker 1: the interesting things about Kin Sayer I think that was
Speaker 1: his name, was that no black, no African Americans followed
Speaker 1: his group. It was all unsuspecting kind of white left wingers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the African Americans sniffed him out. They thought that
Speaker 1: something was right, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at least that's what Brad says, and it's in
Speaker 1: the book. It's a really good book. And you can
Speaker 1: kind of see that same stuff with Operation Chaos and
Speaker 1: all these other things that weird things were going on
Speaker 1: in California in the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, chaos and co intel, pro infiltration and
Speaker 2: indolence ops were once again a big part of the
Speaker 2: more subtle form of mind control. You don't have to
Speaker 2: just like turn someone into a zombie, uh to to
Speaker 2: mind control them, like I think, I think probably the
Speaker 2: most effective mind control are his subtle influence. It's when
Speaker 2: you think you came up with the idea yourself. You know,
Speaker 2: it's it's shaping all all the way, all the information
Speaker 2: that's coming in in order to have a specific outcome.
Speaker 2: That's you know, that's one of the means of cultural
Speaker 2: control that that I believe that the so called mind
Speaker 2: control research was was interested in.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I think that they puppeteered people.
Speaker 1: See how effective it was. Imagine some of these guys
Speaker 1: watching the news stories. You know, if you remember there
Speaker 1: was only ABC, CBS and NBC back in the day.
Speaker 1: Imagine just having that power of the only three choices
Speaker 1: to have, and they're just puppeteering. How does how does
Speaker 1: the public and I think they're still doing it to
Speaker 1: this day with control groups and test those are all
Speaker 1: mind control. How does this phrase sound? Does surge sound
Speaker 1: better than much more warn? You know, doubling down? And
Speaker 1: then they work it on everybody.
Speaker 2: So what scares me is here's another aspect of m
Speaker 2: k Ultra that I don't think gets enough play. The
Speaker 2: connection is cybernetics, uh. You know, the connection to counterculture
Speaker 2: and cults very interesting, but so is the connection to
Speaker 2: DARPA uh and and the the arpaet and you know,
Speaker 2: uh Yosha Levine's book uh uh Surveillance Valley is really
Speaker 2: excellent in regards to like the connection between military intelligence
Speaker 2: and UH and the formulation of the Internet. The Internet
Speaker 2: was designed as a counterinsurgency tool, and that's how it's
Speaker 2: still being used. Uh uh Surveillance Valley by Yosha Levine. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the Internet started out as as a counterinsurgency tool,
Speaker 2: and that's still how it's being used. You know, we
Speaker 2: the CIA uh and and this huge like big data
Speaker 2: firm have some of the largest behavioral personality profiles in
Speaker 2: existence that have been gathered from the Internet. And you know,
Speaker 2: the where the cybernetics element gets really scary to me
Speaker 2: is when you start thinking about quantum computing and algorithms
Speaker 2: and what they can do with that wide of a
Speaker 2: data set, and the more they learn about what you know, well,
Speaker 2: a nudge this way does this, a nudge that way
Speaker 2: does that, And you know, Uh, these these algorithms are
Speaker 2: going to build on themselves. Uh you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's an issue of computing power for now. But you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I buy the whole like you know,
Speaker 2: Nick Bostrom and the simulation and the matrix theory. But
Speaker 2: but honestly, when it gets down to the point where
Speaker 2: we're being micro managed to the level of you know,
Speaker 2: what ads you see and what toast you see, do
Speaker 2: the algorithm and all of this is being shaped specifically
Speaker 2: for you because you know the big Panopticon, the eye
Speaker 2: in the sky. You know, it's that's that's a really
Speaker 2: scary thought to me.
Speaker 1: You know, I being on Facebook. Look at Facebook or Twitter?
Speaker 2: You do you?
Speaker 1: They know you?
Speaker 2: I don't know Cambridge whatever or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's all kinds of problems there.
Speaker 1: There's tons of problems there. Those I mean, they know
Speaker 1: so much about about these people that yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: is Facebook a CIA operation? Is it part of them culture? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean like the timing on Lifelog was
Speaker 2: pretty uh coincidental for sure, because you know, the NSA
Speaker 2: was going to do the lifelog program and they shut
Speaker 2: it down at the same time as Facebook. Uh, the
Speaker 2: Facebook becomes Facebook and allows non college students to join up.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, it's uh, it's it's definitely more than
Speaker 2: a little coincidental in my opinion. Uh. But like the
Speaker 2: way I look at it is if you think about,
Speaker 2: like the history of espionage for years and years and years,
Speaker 2: and the twentieth century is all about spies not having
Speaker 2: to be in the same room with you more and
Speaker 2: more so, right, and now it's finally gotten to the
Speaker 2: point where spies don't even have to go outside because
Speaker 2: everybody just drops their info in this little box, this
Speaker 2: little box that they put in their pocket, this little
Speaker 2: box that records their video and audio at any moment,
Speaker 2: you know. Uh uh Google, Google's Uh, it was don't
Speaker 2: be evil was their whole guiding principle, right, and then
Speaker 2: they become alphabet in corporate. They become Alphabet corporation. And
Speaker 2: of course when I think alphabet, I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the classic term the alphabet agencies NSA, CIA, D O, D,
Speaker 2: DCI whatever, whatever whatever it's. I mean, like, I almost
Speaker 2: feel like that was just them kind of having a
Speaker 2: laugh at our expense, you know, because they dropped don't
Speaker 2: be evil at the same time they became alphabet the
Speaker 2: alphabet agencies, which you know, here's the thing. If the
Speaker 2: Internet had stayed under the auspices of the government, a
Speaker 2: lot of the spine they did they do would be illegal.
Speaker 2: But it's not under the government anymore. Now it's a
Speaker 2: public you know, it's it's owned by corporations. Amazon and
Speaker 2: Microsoft own all the infrastructure of the Internet, and they're
Speaker 2: working closely with the CIA and the NSA. So yeah,
Speaker 2: all these social media companies, all the big tech firms
Speaker 2: are working very closely with these people. And and like
Speaker 2: I said that, the idea of public relations and marketing,
Speaker 2: that's a bigger part of this whole story than I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people are aware.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I totally agree with you. I don't
Speaker 1: think they know. The average person doesn't understand the enormity
Speaker 1: of the kind of cultural creation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, people don't get why why is it that
Speaker 2: people spend billions of dollars on ads each year? Huh? Why? Indeed,
Speaker 2: probably because it's a waste of money, and trillionaires love
Speaker 2: wasting money. Now, I don't think that's it.
Speaker 1: Right, That's a good point, really good point.
Speaker 2: I mean, why you know some of them the best
Speaker 2: paid psychiatrists and psychologists in the world. They don't work
Speaker 2: healing brains, they don't work healing minds, they don't work
Speaker 2: healing herds. No, they work in marketing or in the
Speaker 2: private sect doing some kind of weaponized research of some sorts.
Speaker 2: Did you see the you know, talk about DARPA. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff that was being worked on
Speaker 2: like fifty years ago, sixty years ago is really coming
Speaker 2: to fruition in the consumer world. Did you see the
Speaker 2: depression brain implant that they did a study or you know,
Speaker 2: they did an experiment that This is what really gets me,
Speaker 2: Like every major newspaper was talking about it for a
Speaker 2: couple of days, despite the fact that it was an
Speaker 2: N equals one study, meaning this was one person. One
Speaker 2: person had this implant and it worked for them, which
Speaker 2: like that is big news. Like, but like, once again,
Speaker 2: how applicable is this across the board if you're only
Speaker 2: doing this for one person? And also, you know, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but I do not trust electrodes in my brain. I
Speaker 2: don't want uh, you know, uh a control switch in
Speaker 2: my head. Please. This has got you know. Doctor Jose
Speaker 2: Delgatto was was one of the guys who was wanted
Speaker 2: to use you know, electromagnetic frequencies and electrode stimulation. Uh.
Speaker 2: The term psycho civilized. That's another one of those creepy
Speaker 2: euphemisms that you'll see over and over again in this
Speaker 2: kind of you know, in the uh declassified academic literate
Speaker 2: and academic literature, but towards the psycho civilized society. It
Speaker 2: was the name of Jose Delgado's book. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: like I, I don't trust this research. And you know
Speaker 2: what's said is there's a potential for good things to
Speaker 2: come from this. I was on the program to Chill
Speaker 2: podcast and the host is telling me about, uh, the
Speaker 2: Wendell Johnson and the Monster experiments where they you know,
Speaker 2: they they've used these war orphans uh, and they had
Speaker 2: you know, one group that uh, you know they gave
Speaker 2: commendation to and and worked with and a pause way
Speaker 2: and another they just like you know, did whatever they
Speaker 2: could to make them unable to you know, they gave
Speaker 2: people stutters and slurs and all kinds of things, and
Speaker 2: some of these were permanent.
Speaker 1: Now, the sad and.
Speaker 2: Scary thing is that the Wendell Johnson lab, you know,
Speaker 2: at the I think it's University of Iowa. You know,
Speaker 2: they still have the lab named after him at that
Speaker 2: at that university. And what's said is like, some of that,
Speaker 2: some of those awful experiments, we learned some valuable things,
Speaker 2: and we're able to help people. But at what cost,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I just don't I just don't believe that.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, we can sacrifice one person for the
Speaker 2: common good, surely. No, I don't think we should sacrifice
Speaker 2: people's humanity and mental health and wellness just so that
Speaker 2: a few other hypothetical people in the future have a
Speaker 2: better life. No, there's it has got to be a
Speaker 2: better way.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Another fact about West is he
Speaker 1: received an immense amount of funds he in between seventy
Speaker 1: four and eighty nine, he received five million dollars from
Speaker 1: the federal government in grants channel through the National Institute
Speaker 1: of Mental Health, a major funding conduit for CIA, and
Speaker 1: then more money poured into the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, which
Speaker 1: was fourteen million dollars in one year before stepped on.
Speaker 1: So decer, where's that money going? What do you need
Speaker 1: all that money for? You know, it's off the charts.
Speaker 2: The client centered therapy guy Carl Rodgers, you know, the
Speaker 2: it was also called third wave psychology. Carl Rodgers received
Speaker 2: like initially received thirty thousand dollars from the CIA. One
Speaker 2: of the folks that worked with him was was say, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I didn't realize we were working with the CIA. Rogers, however,
Speaker 2: admitted that he did. Uh. And I think the money
Speaker 2: Rogers was getting was through Orn at Pennsylvania Martin Orn
Speaker 2: once again also tied to the Human Ecology Fund and
Speaker 2: in uh uh in CIA. But yeah, you know some
Speaker 2: of these some of these folks, you know, they'll tell you, no,
Speaker 2: I didn't work with the CIA. Some of them knew.
Speaker 2: Some of them I think didn't know, like guys like
Speaker 2: Tim Leary. Though, you know, it's it's it's so crazy
Speaker 2: to think that like the one of the central figures
Speaker 2: in the counterculture creation and psychedelic culture creation isn't admitted
Speaker 2: witting CIA. Patsy, he admitted that he was used by
Speaker 2: the CIA. But I mean think about it. He was
Speaker 2: on the top ten most he was on the FBI's
Speaker 2: most wanted list, uh for for drugs, you know, and
Speaker 2: then he just like escaped from prison. No, no, he didn't.
Speaker 2: This guy a Harvard a geeky Harvard professor on acid
Speaker 2: escaped from from prison. No he didn't. I mean, like
Speaker 2: he did, but only because he had help, you know.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, I mean, like I can understand why he
Speaker 2: would want to work with the Feds. It was that
Speaker 2: or lifetime in prison. Yeah, I can understand where he
Speaker 2: was coming from with that, And at least he was
Speaker 2: eventually kind of came clean about the whole thing. I
Speaker 2: do wonder, like, you know, in his head, how he
Speaker 2: justified that trying to be like this figurehead for psychic
Speaker 2: freedom while at the same time working with the people
Speaker 2: who were trying to absolutely clamp down on you know,
Speaker 2: any sort of behavioral self control.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, you're right. What do you think about
Speaker 1: like Harry Christians. Do you think they got kind of
Speaker 1: mind controlled or did they get as some kind of
Speaker 1: just social persuasion. Do you know anything about the Harry Christians?
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know that much about it. You know,
Speaker 2: the they remind me a lot. If you ever heard
Speaker 2: of Zendic farms, that's another like kind of similar little
Speaker 2: it's it's a little commune and they, uh, there's another
Speaker 2: there's another sort of offshoot of of you know, Eastern
Speaker 2: mysticism that's kind of similar to that. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: I would bet that, especially in the sixties and seventies
Speaker 2: and eighties, a lot of these you know, like Esslyn
Speaker 2: and you know E. S. T and the Moonies. Now
Speaker 2: we know that the Moonies were connected to the CIA,
Speaker 2: you know, the the c i A, which was under
Speaker 2: the auspices of the US Central Intelligence Agency. So I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, we know that the Moonies worked with the
Speaker 2: c i A.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: Doctor Ruth Wangern believes that the Children of God worked
Speaker 2: with the CIA. The the Iranian government thinks that the
Speaker 2: Bahi are possibly either infiltrated or run by the CIA.
Speaker 2: Nexium's got a lot of scientology ties, and scientology especially
Speaker 2: if you look at early scientology, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was the classic CIA Dirty Tricks Manual played out over
Speaker 2: and over and over again. So you know, I'm one
Speaker 2: of those people who a lot of people believe that.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the few things that I agree
Speaker 2: with the Church of Scientology on is I think that l.
Speaker 2: Ron Hubbard was connected to military intelligence. Yes, And I
Speaker 2: think that scientology probably started out kind of under control
Speaker 2: and then went rogue, and that's where you end up
Speaker 2: by like the late seventies, you've got operations snow white,
Speaker 2: and you've got like the fb FBI and IRS, and
Speaker 2: senators and congressmen have know their their offices are being infiltrated.
Speaker 2: There their secretary and the guys sweeping up after hours
Speaker 2: are secretly scientologists. You know. I think by that point
Speaker 2: in time they had definitely firmly gone row. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think they were probably used the whole idea of
Speaker 2: getting someone in a room and then recording them talk
Speaker 2: about all the bad things that they did. You know,
Speaker 2: that's that's great blackmail material. So I can definitely see
Speaker 2: them being being used. You know, they can also be
Speaker 2: deployed globally that way.
Speaker 1: So they were trying to subvert governments and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: They very ambitious plans, Phil, I got to wrap it
Speaker 1: up word ninety minutes. Where can people reach out to
Speaker 1: you if they want to through your website?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Phil Fairbanks p H I L F
Speaker 2: A I R B A n K S dot com.
Speaker 2: So Philfairbanks dot com. And also I'm coughed a guy
Speaker 2: on Twitter as in Franz cop k A f k
Speaker 2: A g U y so uh COFFGA Guy on Twitter
Speaker 2: or Phil Fairbanks dot com. You can also reach out
Speaker 2: to me uh COFKA guy at gmail dot com or
Speaker 2: head to the contact section on my website.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Well, you've been working on some other stuff too, You've
Speaker 1: been doing interviews and oh yeah, yeah articles. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know you mentioned the Pedrogate Primer, which is
Speaker 2: the first book. I've got another one that's still still
Speaker 2: in need of the last forty pages of editing. I
Speaker 2: know I've been saying that for a year, uh now,
Speaker 2: but uh so I've got one book in the works
Speaker 2: and one book waiting to be edited. And meanwhile, like
Speaker 2: I said, I try to occasionally at least like uh
Speaker 2: uh one or two times a month, sometimes more. I
Speaker 2: try and post up at the website there. So if
Speaker 2: you want to keep keeping contact with like the interviews
Speaker 2: and things that I do. Uh, that's that's a good
Speaker 2: place to uh to start there right on.
Speaker 1: And you know a lot about kult So thanks a
Speaker 1: lot for sharing. So again. Author's name is Phil Fairbanks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Phil, Take care, appreciate it, appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: Stay there.