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Sign up now at 51 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:00.799 Chumba Hassen dot com. 52 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.040 Don't or don't have anydid wherever by lost the arms 53 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:03.799 conditions eighteen plus. 54 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.759 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 55 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:19.879 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 56 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:26.039 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK 57 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.719 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 58 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.919 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 59 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:39.120 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 60 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:53.759 Good Afternoon. In nineteen sixty four, a banned motorcyclist mysteriously 61 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:58.000 appeared in Milwaukee. Over the course of the next decade, 62 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:02.199 the Outlaws Motorcycle Club LUB became synonymous with acts of 63 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:07.599 intimidation and violence in the ruthless world of renegade bikers. 64 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.080 The omc's Milwaukee chapter became known as the Wrecking Crew. 65 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.199 You Gotta Be Dirty. The Outlaws Motorcycle Club In and 66 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:21.280 Around Wisconsin examines the evolution of outlaw motorcycle clubs in 67 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:25.439 the United States from nineteen forty seven to the early 68 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.520 nineteen sixties, the influence of rogue riders, the one percent 69 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.000 of motorcyclists living outside the law spread from the West 70 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:37.960 coast and into America's heartland. In Wisconsin, investigators link members 71 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.360 of the Outlaws to at least eleven murders. Four of 72 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:44.319 the innocent persons killed where women, and two were elderly. 73 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:48.759 Three children also boss their lives. A fifteen year old 74 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:52.599 boy was killed by an explosive device, an infant perished 75 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.240 in an arson fire, and a ten year old boy 76 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.840 was executed vis a vis a gunshot to the head. 77 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.759 During a tumultuous nineteen nineties, the Outlaws orchestrated a guerrilla 78 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.599 style offensive in a quest to beat backed expansion of 79 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.479 the world's largest one percent motorcycle club, the Hell's Angels. 80 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.240 During this period, the Hell's Angels began courting the Hell's 81 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:18.600 Henchman Motorcycle Club, a group with chapters in Chicago, Rockford, 82 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:22.079 and South Bend, Indiana. The Hell's Angel's bold move into 83 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:25.439 northern Illinois touched off a seven year conflict that was 84 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:30.120 exacerbated by beatings, bombings, and shootings. As a former outlaw 85 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:34.519 biker investigator, author and retired Milwaukee Police Department detective Larry 86 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.319 Powolitz wrote, I participated in the investigations of several of 87 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:43.160 the incidents documented in this well research book. This history 88 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:48.399 of the Outlaws motorcycle Club shines a bright light on 89 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.120 the one percent motorcycle club subculture. The book that we're 90 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:56.120 featuring this afternoon is You Gotta Be Dirty The Outlaws 91 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:59.959 Motorcycle Club in and around Wisconsin, with my special guest, 92 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.439 journalist and author Michael Grogan. Welcome to the program, and 93 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.279 thank you very much for agreeing this interview. 94 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.879 Michael Grogan, thanks for having me on and Dan I 95 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.240 appreciate that talking about the book with your listeners. 96 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.399 Thank you very much. This is a fascinating book about 97 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:21.959 a very very interesting organization, to say the least. What 98 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:22.959 brought you? 99 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:31.120 Sorry, go ahead, I spent about two and a half 100 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:35.439 years accumulating the information to write the book, which is 101 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.959 that extension of my master's thesis. 102 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:46.639 So that's what brought you to this book. But why 103 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.360 did you want to do this? What was the impetus 104 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.759 for you wanting to do You Got to Be Dirty? 105 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:59.319 Other than your master's thesis? What are you from this area? 106 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.079 Tell us why this was important to you and the 107 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.560 Outlaws in Wisconsin was important to you to write? 108 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:09.519 Well, I grew up in southeastern Wisconsin, anybody who grows 109 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.360 up in this area is familiar with the Outlaws Motorcycle Club. 110 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:17.680 We've seen him at church festivals, at fitnicks, at races, 111 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:21.480 and so although I saw the group around, I wasn't 112 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.879 particularly that knowledge of what some of the things that 113 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.120 happened in the sixties and seventies and eighties with the club. 114 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.560 When I was looking for a topic to write my 115 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:34.079 master's thesis, that I was actually exploring hostile riots a 116 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:36.959 racial riot that happened in Milwaukee in the mid to 117 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:41.639 late nineteen sixties, and I interviewed the detective who's actually 118 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:46.600 participated in the law enforcement during that riot, and he 119 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:50.160 told me about the Outlaw's Motorcycle Club about how really 120 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:55.160 there's never been a comprehensive history about the club written 121 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:59.519 about this group in south eastern Wisconsin. He had several 122 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:02.519 boxes of information about the club and a lot of 123 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:06.240 institutional knowledge, and so as I began looking into his 124 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.560 information other information, I thought I'd make an excellent topic. 125 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:13.319 One of the things now in history circles is team 126 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.959 for groups who have been underrepresented throughout history, and so 127 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:21.160 traditional history might look at diplomats and governments and politics. 128 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.040 A lot of trends in the history right now look 129 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:29.199 at groups that are called cultural histories, and certainly the 130 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:33.439 one percent subculture is such a group. And nobody really 131 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.360 in historical circles has written much both. I found one 132 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.720 other historian, doctor Randy mbat Texas Tech, we had written 133 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:46.079 something about the outlaw motorcycle gained subculture. But in Wisconsin, 134 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.920 in the Midwest, really no other historian has really exported 135 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:55.839 the club. Now you open with this, and maybe you 136 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.240 can tell us, as you're do in the book, the 137 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.800 importance of Milwaukee for our Internet national listeners in terms 138 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.839 of Harley Davidson Milwaukee one percent clubs and Wisconsin in 139 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:13.360 terms of one percent bike clubs. Before we talk about 140 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.680 as you do in the introduction where you have we 141 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:22.560 open up the with the the very much action packed courthouse, 142 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:27.480 Milwaukee courthouse where we have Todd Liifker that's on the 143 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.920 witness stand and talking about cover and concealment. So first 144 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:33.639 tell us a little bit about Milwaukee, as you do, 145 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.840 and before we talk about Todd Lifeger and a witness 146 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:40.240 at a Milwaukee courthouse. And this is how you open. 147 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:45.679 You've got to be dirty, sure, Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Harley Davison 148 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.600 has made Milwaukee at Outlaw motorcycle clubs, which are the 149 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:54.240 one percent motorcyclists that live outside the law. Their by 150 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:00.720 laws require them to have an American made motorcycle or 151 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.360 a BMW. They're not allowed to have any Japanese bikes 152 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.559 or any other foreign type of bikes. Most the pride 153 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:10.000 and joy of these clubs obviously part of the Harley 154 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:14.200 Davidson subculture, and people are not familiar with Milwaukee. Harley 155 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.919 Davidson was started in Milwaukee in nineteen oh three. Nineteen eighties, 156 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.440 had ran into some financial problems and was bailed out 157 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.840 by President Reagan. And since the nineteen eighties the company 158 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.480 has really flourished and become the pride and joy of 159 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.240 the Milwaukee area. So in nineteen sixty four when when 160 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:34.759 our club we had Milwaukee was called the Milwaukee Gypsy Outlaws, 161 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:37.679 and they had a co chat from Louisville, Kentucky called 162 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.960 the Louisville Gypsy Outlaws. In August nineteen sixty four, they 163 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.519 went to Springfield, Illinois for a race. They had a 164 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.799 meeting with the Outlaws Motorcycle Club in Chicago, and the 165 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.480 three groups merged to form the Outlaws Nation which was 166 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:55.759 initially three clubs and as such the Outlaws Motorcycle Club 167 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:58.360 had got a foothold. And then Milwaukee, which is the 168 00:09:58.399 --> 00:09:59.440 home of Harley Davidson. 169 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:05.840 Now we talk about todd lifeker and as I mentioned, 170 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:08.240 he's a witness. You opened the book with the men 171 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:12.159 being a witness at a Milwaukee courthouse and you say 172 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:14.799 that he says on the stand, we were never killers 173 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:18.759 before we joined the Outlaws Motorcycle Club. And he talked 174 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.559 about the moral code of the Outlaw biker. He testified, 175 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:27.080 and so tell us what he testifies to, what does 176 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:32.279 he talk about, and what does he testify to about 177 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:37.600 the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, explaining very much so the title. 178 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:42.120 Of your book, Well, Todd was really a two bit 179 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.480 burglar and a criminal fence his person he ran with 180 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.039 his name Harvey r V. Powers, who was a prospect, 181 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.679 a probate and eventually a member of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club. 182 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.240 The RV and Harvey's moniker name stance are really violent. 183 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:58.799 And so what Tod and. 184 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.159 Harvey were doing where they were selling drugs and their 185 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:06.159 trafficking stolen motorcycle parts. Specifically, Todd was more or less 186 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:12.919 doing that and one instance, life for actually burglarized the 187 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.159 police headquarters where evidence was stored to steal the evidence 188 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.919 the crime he committed from the evidence locker. Another instance, 189 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:27.559 Powers told Life occurred that Lifeer was trafficking drugs and 190 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.519 old another man ten thousand dollars, and Powers offered to 191 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.759 have the Outlaws committed hit against the guy and kill him. 192 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:38.799 That was too much for Toddy said, I'd rather deal 193 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.799 with the guy. But what that indicated to me into 194 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:44.960 the court was that how the all Laws would take 195 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.840 care of their friends, They would cover for him and 196 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.360 conceal the evidence in the criminal justice system for them. 197 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.919 Right now, you talk about it. Also in nineteen ninety 198 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:01.559 six nineteen Party Meet nineteen sixty six, the original founder 199 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:07.639 of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club Milwaukee Chapter job John Bissonis, 200 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:12.159 explained the rule of the club to the press as 201 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.840 you've got to be dirty. And you also talk about 202 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:22.559 two really important matters at that time, the government's response 203 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:29.519 to the Outlaws and their appearance in southwestern Wisconsin. So 204 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.960 tell us what the initial response was by everyone, including 205 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.639 law enforcement, to the Outlaws coming into Wisconsin having a presence. 206 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:41.399 Well, in order to look at this, you need to 207 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:46.200 put things in their context in the nineteen sixties, which 208 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.639 was the era of Vietnam and the era of the 209 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.600 new left rise up in the United States, and so 210 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.480 the Milwaukee Police Department, in conjunction with the FBI and 211 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.679 the FDAD a program called co Intel Pro, which was 212 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.279 their coverer intelligence program. In the Milwaukee Police Department, men's 213 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:03.200 had a group called the Special Assignment Squad, which was 214 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.200 in effect, the Milwaukee Police Department's version of co Intel Pro. 215 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.840 It basically kept an eye on subversion groups or groups 216 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:15.279 that were had coast and notional groups like that. So 217 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:17.159 when the Outlaws came onto the scene in the early 218 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:22.000 nineteen sixties, the head of the Special Assignment Squad didn't 219 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.360 really view the Outlaws as fitting into the category that 220 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:29.879 merited surveillance based on the guidelines of a Special Assignment Squad. 221 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.720 They viewed the Outlaws more or less as facilitator as 222 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.200 a public disorder. They were kind of viewed as pro 223 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.720 military veteran rowdy type of groups, and they believe the 224 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:41.639 best way to keep an eye on them, but they 225 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:44.759 have group, a tactical squad it was being formed at 226 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.440 the time, keep tabs in the club and suppress their 227 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:52.080 criminal activities. And that's well from the Milwaukee Police Department's perspective, 228 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:53.840 that's kind of the way they've moderned the club from 229 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:58.559 their inception in nineteen sixty four until about nineteen seventy four, 230 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:00.000 and then things change. 231 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:12.279 Now you say that one event in particular really changed 232 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.039 the game or a game changer in terms of a 233 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.399 paper boy was killed by an explosive device for an 234 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.919 outlaw rival. When was that? And tell us a little 235 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.720 bit more about what happened in this incident. 236 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.399 Well, in the in the early nineteen seventies, the Outlaws 237 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.000 learned to process of consolidating their power with other one 238 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:36.559 percent clubs in the state. The words ere becoming the 239 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.559 state's premier one percent motorcycle club. And in essence they 240 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.720 had their way and the Saints and the Savage Seven 241 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.080 they pretty much dropped their patch some members which joined 242 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.000 the Outlaws, otherwise the clubs to be disbanded. But one 243 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:51.919 motorcycle group in particular that happen as Devils refused to 244 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.840 cave in. Now, if you look at the culture of 245 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.320 the all motorcycle clubs, similar to street gangs, they have 246 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.720 colors and the Outlaws colors are black and white. And 247 00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:05.559 the colors of the Outlaw's major arrival, the Hell's Angels 248 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.399 are red and white. Well, the Heavens Devils wore a 249 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.279 red and white patch if you look at their name, 250 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:14.720 obviously it's in typical to that to the Fellows Angels. 251 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.519 So the Outlaws were always skeptical that the Heavens Devils 252 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.240 might be really the forerunner for the Hell's Angels movement 253 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:25.559 into Wisconsin. And in the nineteen seventies, the Outlaws continued 254 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.399 to target the Heavens Devils. The Heavens Doubles Devils refused 255 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.039 to drop their patch, and finally, one day the Outlaws 256 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.879 did a home invasion armed robbery on four Heavens Devil's 257 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.080 members and took their club colors and robbed them a 258 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.279 small amount of money. Well, in the one percent subculture, 259 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:44.080 you're never supposed to go to the police to solve 260 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.879 issue those is, they're supposed to be involved between members 261 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.759 of the clubs. But the Heavens Devils decided the Great President. 262 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.960 They caught Milwaukee Police Department two members of the out 263 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:01.480 Laws arrested for invasion, armed robbery, UH and indition from 264 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:05.120 while their trials were trial was waiting for her the 265 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.960 Yellows retaliated against Seven's doubles. There was one night where 266 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.799 they had took a fireboxing some guy's window, if shotgun 267 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.960 blast another man's window, and then a four or five 268 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.960 ten Zimbles were targeted and still the devils remained at it. 269 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:23.559 They weren't going to drop their past. And the case 270 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.120 proceeded the trial and then on in September, the two 271 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.759 members of the Alls were found guilty and moving pre 272 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.440 committments the prison sentences. Two months later, on November fifth, 273 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.039 nineteen seventy four, Pick Boy looked ants. He's a fifteen 274 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.960 years boy, went to Wilbregs in your high school. He 275 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.039 was doing it brought about six o'clock in the morning, 276 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.399 your eighty third and keith A, Milwaukee's near west side, 277 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:54.759 the nice blue collar area at the time. And as 278 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:57.840 he's walking this route, he sees a package wrapped as 279 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.960 a Christmas gift on top of an old mobile and 280 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.679 initially he thinks that, you know, somebody might have forgot 281 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.880 the package on top of the homeowner and walked into 282 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.079 the home. So apparently he was going to pick up 283 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.319 the package to put it on the steps when he 284 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.200 picked it up and exploded the box was filled with 285 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.480 TNT and spent welding rods, and it was a devastating blast. 286 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:22.440 From the detectives that I talked to there were at 287 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.279 the scene, they said that these were hardcore detectives, crusty 288 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:29.519 law enforcement people, investigatives, the most serious crimes of Milwaukee. 289 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:31.880 And they said it was the worst crime scene they've 290 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.759 ever seen that when they got there from the blast 291 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.000 and blowing the socket out of his eye and seared 292 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.319 his face to the point where it was still burning 293 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:41.799 when they arrived in the crime scene and he was 294 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.119 killed instantaneously, over two hundred runs. 295 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.480 To his body. 296 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.200 And you know, this is a really gruesome scene. You 297 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.559 can imagine that the scene covered a couple of blocks. 298 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.680 One of the detectives interviewed interviewed. His name is Roger 299 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:56.319 Hinton Tuler. He said he and his partner were doing 300 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.960 the canvas of a home a block to the east 301 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.200 and the blast, and he noticed something strange sitting on 302 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.000 top of a bush hedge, and his partner stepped up 303 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.599 the steps to get a look and it was one 304 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.960 of the paper boy's fingers. It flew over a block 305 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.960 away the blast. This blast changed everything because now from 306 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.599 that point on the Milwaukee Police Department's command staff no 307 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.200 longer looked like looked at the outlaws is simply facilitators 308 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:24.559 of public disorder. Looked at them as organized crime, and 309 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:29.640 they were very violent, threatened the safety of all Milwaukeeans. 310 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:32.319 You can imagine it's like the mafia. The mafia is 311 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.599 more like blood in and blood out, the posts and ostrum. 312 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.279 They don't typically bother you unless they have an issue 313 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.200 with you. Well, when a little kid, paper boy gets 314 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.480 blown up by a bomb, the entire city obviously is 315 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.039 fearful that this type of violence. Now, there's going to 316 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.680 be a lot of collateral damage during this spewed and 317 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.200 the Milwaukee Police firm really wretched it up the pressure 318 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:54.640 at that time and it kind of changed the whole 319 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.559 dynamic between the police department and the club. 320 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.519 Now you talk about this that this grizzly murder made 321 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.200 law enforcement apply more pressure and as members of law 322 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.640 enforcement found themselves subject to threats and acts of violence, 323 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.680 and you say some of the rank and file police 324 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.440 sometimes operated outside the law. Tell us a little bit 325 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.799 about that. 326 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.799 Well, all of it, the police response was a response 327 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:25.240 to what the aut laws were doing. I talked to 328 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.359 one police officer who said that he worked he as 329 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.279 a high profile detective. He just made detective. It was 330 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.319 in the mid eighties, and he talked to one of 331 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.720 the lieutenants that investigate the outlaws. He was the lieutenant 332 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:38.440 was fearful that the all Laws are going to start 333 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:43.200 killing police officers, and he told him. An instance were 334 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.160 at three o'clock in the morning one morning. This lieutenant 335 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.279 lived in an area by the airport. It was on 336 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.440 a side street thirty ply residential area. This door rings 337 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.680 at three am. Stoorboll rings. He's off duty. He goes 338 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:56.839 to the door. It's a member of the aut Laws. 339 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.720 He said that he was simply lost and was looking 340 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:05.759 for directions. Another instance, detectives from the Violent Crimes Division 341 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.759 of the Criminal Investigation Brew in the Milwaukee Police Department. 342 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.480 They're having a picnic in a well known park in Milwaukee, 343 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:13.920 and they notice that the allt Laws are there, taking 344 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:16.720 on their license plates and conducting surveillance of them and 345 00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.200 their families. So these officers felt that the all Laws 346 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:24.119 were obviously trying to intimidate them. So that was one instance. 347 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.640 But another instance is the all Laws were getting very 348 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:31.359 brazen at one point and in the mid seventies. Nineteen 349 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.960 seventy five, off to the Milwaukee officers at a tavern 350 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:38.759 kind of a great part of Milwaukee. Apparently some members 351 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.839 of the out Laws are there. They exchange insults, and 352 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:46.119 as the officer leaves, the outlaws follow them. They bump 353 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.480 the back of his car. When the officer gets out, 354 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.240 the outlaws beat the officers so bad they break his 355 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.440 jaw and break his eye socket. When the officer gets 356 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.680 back in the car and follows the outlaws and right 357 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.359 outside one of the Milwaukee's police districts on the south side, 358 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.400 off to the officer forces the Outlaws of ban off 359 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.960 the road, and one of the on duty officers that 360 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.880 the station comes over assis the police officer effect the 361 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.519 arrest to the outlaws. The police chief of Milwaukee the time, 362 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.440 his name was Harold Harold Brier, and Milwaukee either you 363 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:17.960 love him or you hate him. If you love a 364 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.359 law and order, you love Harold Brier. If you're a 365 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.319 member of the counterculture, you didn't like him. Well, Briar 366 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.000 was smart enough to now. But this time though, the 367 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.400 Outlaws were up to This is after the ans Dead bombing, 368 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.880 so he actually assigned an officer who watched the home 369 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:32.720 of the officer who was beaten to make sure the 370 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:36.680 outlaws didn't retaliate. And her name was Susan Ordell. She's 371 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.799 a twenty three year old relatively new police officer. Now 372 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.920 she was guarding Bartlett's house. The officer who was beaten 373 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.319 by the outlaws on the South Side. A man came by, 374 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:51.440 shot her squad car twice, almost killed her. She exited 375 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.400 the squad pursued the man who shot her, but the 376 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.640 man got into a vehicle and speed off. In the interim, 377 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.279 another law enforcement officer, Earls of Belle, lieutenant in the 378 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.880 Suburban department, had information at the allwayers are planning up. 379 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.000 I'm blowing outlaws are planning I'm blowing up a police station. 380 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.039 And so all this stuff was heating up. As the 381 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:12.720 police ratched up the pressure to investigate the handstip murder, 382 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:17.079 the out laws were also ratching up the pressure. And 383 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.279 then in about a year and a half a year later, 384 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.039 you could see all these problems coming to the forefront. 385 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.359 The outlaws were at a strip club on Milwaukee's West 386 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.200 Side and had a confrontation with three other men and 387 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.119 a large contingent of police officers responded, including a tactical 388 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.279 enforcement unit which was used that kit tabs on the outlaws, 389 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.319 and when they got there, they arrested three members of 390 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:43.039 the outlaws. One of them's name was Roger Lyons, and 391 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.559 Roger Lyons was involved in a relatively minor scuffle, but 392 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.079 he did fight with the police. Some witnesses said they 393 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:52.799 saw a police officers swinging their batons. He was later 394 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.160 conveyed out to a patrol wagon and taken to a 395 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:59.680 district station where he appeared non responsive and was rushed 396 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.279 to the high and died in police custody more or less. 397 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.680 And so you can see how all these effects, the 398 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:09.160 causal effect of them re action up the pressure and 399 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.720 the out laws refusal to give in, in fact wanting 400 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.960 to intimidate the investigators to back off concerning to ansset 401 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.880