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Speaker 1: Coming to you from Studio A here at proven Winns

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Color Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show

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with Stacy Hervella, me, Rick weisst and our engineer and

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producer Adrianna Robinson. Well, Stacy, let's tap on the brakes

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a little. Somebody has to say it is life too

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short for spacing plants? I mean plants at the greenhouse

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or the garden center. When you start shopping this spring,

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it's like going to the buffet in Las Vegas. Your

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eyes tend to be bigger than your stomach. Or when

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I take my grandson to the store and I say, wow,

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you can have a little treat, it's impossible for him

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to decide. There's so many choices. It's unreally usually ends

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up with two or three trees.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, this idea that life is too short

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for proper spacing is something that I have said many

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times myself to friends and gardening colleagues. And I have

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softened that stance a bit, which we will get to,

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but it really comes from so. I went to horticulture

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school at the New York Botanical Garden School of Professional Horticulture,

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and one of my first days on our rotations where

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you work in all of the different areas of the gardens.

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It was spring and the crew leader dropped me off

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at this giant, massive, beautiful urn and a couple flats

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of pansies and was like, okay, we'll be back to

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pick you up in like forty five minutes. And I

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was like, okay, cool. And so you know, I'm looking

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at the pansies and they have a little tag in

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them and it says like, you know, space eight to

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ten inches apart or whatever. So I'm like okay. So,

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you know, they drop me off with like three flats,

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and I take this urn and I plant like eight

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pansies in it, following this, you know, this instruction on

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the tag. And when she came back to get me

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after I had done this, she was like what is that?

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And I'm like, following the spacing instructions and she goes, no, no, no,

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no no, and she's like, this is how you do it,

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and she starts taking the pansies out and she's squishing,

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gently squishing the root balls and just packing them in there.

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And you know, that's when I realized that spacing is

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primarily a suggestion. There are certainly consequences to ignoring spacing

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not so much from an annual perspective, and certainly not

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from a pansy perspective. But overall, it is just a suggestion,

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and there are plenty of times where you, as a gardener,

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are free to completely disregard that in favor of a

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better display.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and when it comes to annuals, throw the spacing

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out the window.

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Speaker 2: Oh for sure. The spacing on those things is ridiculous.

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You'd think that they would decrease it so people would

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plant more and they'd sell more. But you know, especially

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back in the days of the cell pause, Yeah, you know,

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it was like twelve inches. And I remember, you know,

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being a landscaper back then, and you know, the trowel

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with the markers on it, and I'm like, this looks terrible,

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But well, I followed the instruction, so it must be right.

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Speaker 1: I never follow spacing instructions when it comes to annuals.

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Thus my limerick for this week, Every plant's my favorite.

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I'm embracing so many to choose from I'm pacing They're

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so fabulous I can't pick. So I wrote this lima

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rick to announce I'm giving up spacing. You know, plant

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spacing if you think about it. There are calculators online

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and all sorts of stuff on how to figure out

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plant spacing. Generally, I've just done the math in my head.

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For example, if you have a plant that at maturity

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is four foot wide, putting it next to a plant

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at maturity that's three foot wide, just add four plus three,

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divide by two, which is three and a half, and

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put the plants center to center three and a half

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feet apart. That's how I've WoT.

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Speaker 2: It's basically that simple, and I think that maybe the

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key that's missing for a lot of people is the

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I don't know or don't realize that the spacing recommendation

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is based on the predicted width of the plant. Yes,

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and that's another aspect of why it is so subjective.

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Let me ask you this. Are you a do you

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like your plants to touch or do you like your

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plants not to touch?

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Speaker 1: Well? I like I like them to touch. But I

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am a person who will not bring a tape measure

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out into the landscape. I like to plant in odd

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numbers and I don't want it to look like I

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measured it.

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Speaker 2: Sure right, right? A lot of people don't want their

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plants to touch, which, honestly, more power to you. It

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seems crazy to me because I like my garden to

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look like a garden, like a jungle like with all

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the plants, So I need my plants to touch, so

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I always ignore spacing or go with smaller spacing. But

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there's plenty of people out there who don't like the

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look of a full garden and they prefer the space

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and everything kind of you know, it's just a different approach.

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It's perfectly valid for those of you are my plants

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can't touch type out there, But that plays a big

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role into how you decide you're going to space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or let me throw a monkey wrench into it.

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Spacing in my mind, is more important in the shade

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than it is in the sun. In the sun you

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get plenty of sunlight, air movement, and so disease less

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of a problem. In the shade, you want to have

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proper spacing. Just the theory on my part, Yeah, for sure.

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Of course, there's all other types of different issues too.

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Some plants are allellopathic and I'm looking here, I had

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written down here sunflowers, Nepetta, morning glories, lantana, And of

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course you've got the notorious mob boss of the group

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black walnut. But some plants are you know, they kind

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of push others.

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Speaker 2: Out right, And you know, there's a lot of research

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nowadays it says that a lot of the beliefs around

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allellopathy are not wrong but over exaggerated. And you know,

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what I've read in that case is that it's not

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so much like but even with black walnut, except for

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the very sensitive plants. So do not try to plant

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tomato anywhere near in the vicinity of a black walnut.

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But it's primarily the branches, leaves in fruit that fall

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that cause the issue. It's not just some sort of

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you know, force field coming out around the roots or

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anything like that. So in that case, you know, my

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neighbor across the street has a massive black walnut, So

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if squirrels are coming over and depositing you know, walnuts

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in my yard, then I can't space around that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, Speaking of squirrels as it

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relates to plant spacing, if you want to throw cashew

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to the wind, what you do is you go vertical. Yes, absolutely,

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just like they did in Top Gun. Right, and some

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people refer to it as bio intensive planting. Using vines

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going vertical. One of my favorite plants and tight spots

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are clematis if you've got a good sunny spot. Others

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you could use, of course, rise up Lilac days. I

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was amazed at how well that did in my garden

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this year, kind of elevating above the group flirty girl

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false hydrangea in a shady area. And of course I've

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always talked about exclamation points, so you take rows of

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share in the pillar series or skybox Japanese holly or

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fine line buckthorn, or I got to throw in a

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grass stacy and annual grass like vertigo. You know, these

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add excitement, They can stand alone if you wish to

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kind of rise above the others and kind of give

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you a permission to pack it in a little definitely.

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Speaker 2: And you know, another aspect of that, I would say

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is that you can get away with a lot less

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space in between plants if you were willing to do

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some work. And you know, this is a question that

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we can all ask ourselves is how much work do

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I want to do? What type of work do I

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want to do? And one great example of that would

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be Espelier. So Espelier is you know when you see

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usually a shrubs. Some comes it's a small tree trained

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up against a fence, and sometimes it can be very

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meticulous where they've tried to create like a Belgian fence,

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where branches are criss crossing and making a diamond pattern.

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Or it's just a matter of pruning a shrub so

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that all of its growth that would come outward or

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backward is pruned off and it only goes left and right.

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And so I have a winter honeysuckle nisra a fragrant tissima,

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which is one of the first things to bloom. Smells amazing.

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It smells like fruit loop cereal, and it's a huge plant.

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I mean, these things get to be ten feet tall

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and ten feet wide. But my husband loves to prune

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and has taken it upon himself to espalier this winter

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honeysuckle next to our fence, so it takes up just

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a fraction of the space. He loves pruning it. So

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if you are someone who loves to prune, you can,

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you know, use these little tips and tricks and take

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on that responsibility. If you're not someone who likes to prune,

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then you're probably not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: So when we say life is too short for spacing.

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We to a degree say it tongue in cheek.

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Speaker 2: To a degree.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But you know, in spring, when I'm out there

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in the vegetable garden and I've got a packet of

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bean seeds or carrot seeds, I'm notorious for getting halfway

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down the road and the row and the seeds are gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the same. You know, I've been roached vegetable

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gardening for my entire adult life, and I still distrust

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the spacing in spring. It's just impossible to believe, you know.

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And so like this year, I planted way too many

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tomatoes in my space. I had an amazing harvest, but

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by the time they all grew it in, it was

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like playing a game of twister to get out there

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and try to harvest everything and find these one spots

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where you could step that weren't covered by tomato plants.

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But you know what, it's just enthusiasm. It's enthusiasm for

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what we do well.

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Speaker 1: Enthusiasm. But also if you tighten up the spacing, I

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think it makes watering easier. You always want to pack

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in more plants, I know, Stacey, you're like me. If

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you walk through a greenhouse or a garden center. You

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can be inspired and like, h I'd like that plant,

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and next thing you know, you're walking around in your

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yard with the plant in one hand the shovel in

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the other, looking for a place to put it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have definitely been there, yes, And then you

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know you're like, oh, well this container could use another plant,

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so you just wedge it on in there and then

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you know. But it's a good way to learn. You

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do learn a lot by pushing those boundaries. I will

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definitely say that, oh hey, quick, before we take a break,

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I have to tell everybody that next Friday, February twenty first,

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here on our YouTube channel, we are going to be

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doing our first ever YouTube live and we're going to

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be telling everybody about all of the new shrubs for

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twenty twenty five. So it is a public peak at

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everything that's going to be new. It's going to be

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super great. I'm going to be there. Natalie Christina Crimson

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from our YouTube channel are also participating. So if you've

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got spring fever, you're dying for a little break, some flour,

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some greenery, please please join us here on YouTube Friday,

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February twenty first at twelve Eastern at time. We hope

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you'll see you there.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll see how Stacey ties it in plants on Trials.

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Coming up next here on the Gardening Simplified.

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Speaker 2: Show, beautify your home and community with proven Winner's Color

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Choice Shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique

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varieties to choose from. There's a flowering shrub or evergreen

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for every taste and every space. Just look for the

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distinctive white container your local garden center or learn more

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at proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greeting's gardening friends,

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and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the

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order of the day is plant spacing, an issue in

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gardening that has tripped up many people. I've certainly had

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to hold a lot of hands as people have worked

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through how to space things and what to do with

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a range when you have a range of spacing, which

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I'll talk about the next segment a bit. But I

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did want to say, you know, I have softened, as

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I said in segment one, my stance a little bit

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on life is too short for proper spacing, and you know,

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sometimes it isn't sometimes it is. But like last year,

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right I bought some basil. We were in Chicago. We

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wanted to have a picnic, and instead of just buying

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you know, cut basil, I bought a basil plant and

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I said, okay, I'll just you know, go home and

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plant it, which I did, but all my containers are

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already full at that point. So I had three massive containers,

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like big, giant, twenty four inch containers that weren't full.

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So I says, okay, I'll just plant the basil in here.

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It's fine. I had the best darn basil harvest of

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my entire life. Adrian is like exclaiming because she saw

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it when she came to film at my house. I

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mean they were shrubs. They were like three feet tall

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and wide. That's fantastic because I did give that extra

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space because normally I was like jamming it into these

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pretty little decorative containers on my patio, which is fine,

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but you know, that's when I really realized, if you

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want your basil to produce, you got to give it

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some room. But that's where the learning comes in.

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Speaker 1: Right, Like I call it basil instincts.

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Speaker 2: Well, I have that instinct. Now I will definitely be

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continuing to do that. And another place where of course,

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you don't really want to go into messing with the

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spacing too too much. Is trees and shrubs correct, And

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that's for a couple of reasons. Number one is that

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trees and shrubs tend to be a little bit more

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expensive than annuals and even perennials, So you don't want

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to make a mistake that you later have to correct

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and risk the investment that you've made in not just

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purchasing the plant, but in time and effort to plant it. Also, overall,

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a lot of trees and shrubs aren't super amenable to

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pruning for size, especially with so like in my garden,

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I talk a lot about my silfium, which is self

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sown abundantly, and sometimes I do leave those plants to go,

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and if those selfium plants start getting a little bit

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too wide, I just go out there and I straight

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up ripoff entire stocks, you know, to kind of to

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try to narrow it down and take up less space.

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You don't really want to do that. Well, first, Philly,

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you can't do that with a woody plant, and you

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don't necessarily want to do it. Some woody plants are

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not very amenable to that kind of pruning to control

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their width, and so you don't have that option, you know,

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like hostas or another plant that they're taking up too

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much space, they have too much leaves. You just go

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out there and take off some stems.

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Speaker 1: Right, get shrubs, which yeah, I've done that. And with shrubs,

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the problem is the plant will look like it got

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a bad hair.

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Speaker 2: Yes it will, and you no one wants that. No

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one wants that. And then you know the other thing,

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of course, is that shrubs and trees are plants that

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we tend to plant for the future, for the long term.

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So it really pays to think far off into the future.

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Even though, like we were talking about in our Dwarf

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Helperdos Spruce rant a couple episodes ago, it can be

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very hard to believe that this, you know, cute little

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shrub that you're holding in your hands is going to

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reach some sort of epic proportion. But it will, and

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you you need to trust those when you are investing

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again time and money into these more permanent plants. Now,

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that doesn't mean you can't fudget a bit here and there.

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Like I was saying with the Espalier, it does to

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some extent depend on how much work you are willing

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to do. And I actually happen to really enjoy going

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out there and ripping out some stems of my sylphium

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and getting the garden a little bit refined. And my

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husband happens to really enjoy espaluing it and doing that

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pruning once a month or whatever that is. So again,

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this is really a question of how much effort or

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how much work are you willing to take on and

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the type of work that it is, and if you

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enjoy that. But you know, one of the issues I

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think with spacing, the reason that so many of us

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want to, you know, kind of minimize how much space

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we give our plants is because we just want more

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plants in the ground, you know. And I don't have

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a huge yard. And yeah, as you said, my eyes

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are bigger than my garden. My dreams or a bigger than

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my garden as well, and so sometimes yeah, I do

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fudge things to try to get more there. And also

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because I just love that full, lush look.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I say, you got to act like

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Tom Cruise in Top Gun, and you gotta go vertical sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Right, And one way that you can do that is

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by choosing fastigit plants, and you've probably heard us use

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that word here and there. Basically, all it means, it's

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a fancy word, it is a Latin word, but from

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a horticultural perspective, all it means is that a plant

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naturally grows with a narrow columnar habit, so instead of

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being a big, wide, spreading tree, it's just a tidy,

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little column. And that word fastigit comes from the Latin

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for high or lofty these plants, a fastigit plant doesn't

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necessarily have to be very tall, but it will be

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very narrow. One of the best examples of this is

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the fastigient English oak Quercus rober fastigiata. Beautiful plant, and

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for some reason here in the US, by and large,

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it is that fastigiit version. It's far far more popular

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than the big, full, massive tree version. But there's lots

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of choices among shrubs as well. So you might be

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familiar with our pillar roses of sharon like purple pillar,

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white pillar, red pillar, glowstick, and skybox Japanese holly, fine

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line ramness. We have this new yard line viburnum, which

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is an evergreen for milder climates, and today's plant on trial.

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Stonehenge U is also a fastigit plant.

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Speaker 1: Didn't we introduce people to that plant in our winter

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garden walk?

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Speaker 2: We did, which might be one of the reasons why

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it was on my mind, because as you can see,

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we do have many others. Ooh, another one that I

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forgot to mention. One that you love skinny fit gink o.

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Speaker 1: Yes, love it.

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Speaker 2: That's a very small, narrow ginko. Not too many on

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the market yet, but so I'll tell you if you

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see one, snatch it up. But there will be more

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coming on the market in the coming seasons. So if

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there's some kind of plant that you really really want

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and you don't have space for it, like an oak

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or gang goo, there very often are these fastigial alternatives

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that just take up a fraction of the space. You know,

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a fastigit you know, tree or shrub for example. Taking

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this taxis stonehanji reaches two to four feet wide. That's

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pretty darn narrow. That is not a lot. I mean,

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you know, I think my summarific hibiscus take up more

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space sure than that. But if you consider you or

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taxes on the whole. Even though here in the US

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we kind of think of them as very kind of

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boring suburban plants that are just planted as like a

356
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front yard hedge show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think your timing on this is perfect, Stacy.

358
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I mean, everyone at this time of the year is

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thinking about taxes, right.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I was going to say this for April fifteenth,

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but you.

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Speaker 1: And I answer plant questions I wrote down here. An

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accountant is someone who solves a problem you didn't know

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you had in a way you don't understand.

365
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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: That's what accountants do.

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Speaker 2: We problem and sometimes people don't understand that too. But yeah,

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so in the like in England, you will see taxes

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that you would not even recognize because they get to

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be massive, massive trees, and yeah, we just don't. They

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just don't do that here. We don't grow them that way.

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And of course we don't have thousands of years of history,

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but there you can find all over the UK and

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Ireland use that are thousands of years old, literally known

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to be two or three or four thousand years old.

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One of the oldest, the fourteen gold U, has a

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trunk circumference, or had at one point. It's now kind

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of hollowed out fifty two feet wow. And uh use

379
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are known to reach heights of sixty five feet or taller.

380
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So you can really see how a plant like Stonehenge,

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you at just two to four feet tall and wide,

382
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:52,720
give you an opportunity to kind of get some of

383
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that look that history, but with using just a small,

384
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small fraction of the space. And a great thing about

385
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fastigit plants as well is that they don't need pruning,

386
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you know, because they aren't growing wide, they're just growing

387
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with a stove pipe kind of shape. You really don't

388
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:12,559
need to prune them. Now. You can height prune them

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00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:16,240
if you wish, it is usually best to let them go,

390
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,559
but if you start them when they're young and you're

391
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not cutting into any really thick wood, you can easily

392
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:25,960
maintain a lower height as well on a fastigit plant.

393
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But like Rick said, you can see Stonehenge in the

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winter landscape in our most recent winter garden tour, and

395
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I think that that where that plant is planted in

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00:20:35,319 --> 00:20:38,680
our gardens really kind of shows how this plant can

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be used and how useful and beautiful it is.

398
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Speaker 1: And at this time of the year, in the dead

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of winter, we'll take any green we can.

400
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Speaker 2: Get, yes, even from a taxis even. I mean, I

401
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,559
have to say I have my own ideas about taxes

402
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:55,440
because I grew up with taxis outside my yard, growing

403
00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:58,079
up like it was there, you know, it was a

404
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:03,400
newer development. And I think that so many contractors developers

405
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,599
are just like, hey, we need something to put in coverage.

406
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,720
We don't know if it's sun or shade. We're not

407
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:10,960
going to bother finding out because you do take full

408
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,079
sun to full shade. And that's pretty great characteristic.

409
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,079
Speaker 1: Tell me about it, Stacey. I come from the garden

410
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,240
center industry. We would unload semi loads of taxes balden

411
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,960
bur lap. Yeah, the soil around the roots usually were

412
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:29,359
solid clay. You lift those things all day long. You

413
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start to think about death and taxes all that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, aren't you glad that's not a thing anymore?

415
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Speaker 1: Oh oh my.

416
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: And they can take pretty much any soil as well.

417
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,160
So another thing that's great for contractors to, you know,

418
00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:46,000
just throw in front of these developments. Poor soil, no problem.

419
00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:48,119
As long as it's well drained. They don't mind sand.

420
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One thing that's that taxes in general do mind though,

421
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,880
that you should be aware of if you're thinking about

422
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,359
planting Stonehenge Texas. They are not derresistant. And it's bizarre

423
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,359
because tax is one of the most toxic plants. And

424
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:04,599
you know, I don't like to freak people out talking

425
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:07,599
about toxic plants, but it's so wild to me that

426
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,119
so many people are so concerned and yet this completely

427
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,000
ubiquitous plan, at least through the Midwest everywhere, extremely toxic

428
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,759
to humans and pets. The deer will eat it like

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00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:21,400
there's no tomorrow, like it's candy. It's like a compulsion

430
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,599
with them. I don't know how that works, but anyway,

431
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,640
I would have to say, if you grew up like me,

432
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with your mother constantly warning you not to touch the

433
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,279
red berries on the green shrubs in the front of

434
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the house, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

435
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:39,079
But again, Sonehenge, you is a great plant if you

436
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,440
live in USCA zones four through seven, not super heat tolerant,

437
00:22:43,079 --> 00:22:46,720
have shade, and are looking for a space saving evergreen.

438
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If that's not what you're looking for, I will list

439
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the rest of the fastigit shrubs and trees that I

440
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,839
have discussed in our show notes at Gardeningsimplified on air

441
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,839
dot Com. We're gonna take a little break. When we

442
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,680
come back, we're opening up the garden. Mailed eggs of police.

443
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:08,920
Stay tuned at Proven Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. We know

444
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:12,000
that a better landscape starts with a better shrub. Our

445
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:15,079
team of experts tests and evaluates all of our flowering

446
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,119
shrubs in evergreens for eight to ten years to ensure

447
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,200
they outperform what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable,

448
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,079
beautiful shrubs. To accentuate your home and express your personal style,

449
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,920
look for Proven Winner's Shrubs in the distinctive white container

450
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,559
at your local garden center, or learn more at proven

451
00:23:31,599 --> 00:23:37,279
Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greetings gardening friends, and welcome

452
00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:40,039
back to the Gardening Simplified Show. It's our favorite time

453
00:23:40,079 --> 00:23:42,519
of the show where we get to answer your gardening questions.

454
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:45,759
But before we do dive into what we've got this week,

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I wanted to briefly talk a bit about the spacing

456
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on the plant tag. And like I said earlier, the

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00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000
spacing that's recommended at least speaking about Proven Menner's Color

458
00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:59,880
Choice Shrubs is based on the width of the plant. So, however,

459
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,000
why the plant gets from one end to the other

460
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,279
is how we're going to recommend that you space them,

461
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:09,000
and very often both the width and the space, the

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00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,480
width and the spacing will always be the same. We

463
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:12,480
just had to separate about because some people didn't understand

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that you can use the width to calculate the spacing.

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But in almost all cases, what you're going to see

466
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:22,079
is a range of sizes. So we take sone hands you,

467
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,880
like we just talked about it. In plants on trial,

468
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we have a range of width and spacing on that

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two to four feet, and a lot of people find

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that confusing. Do I space it two feet? Do I

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space at four feet? Do I space it three feet?

472
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,960
And overall, here's the kind of guideline that you can use.

473
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:41,640
The colder your climate, the less wide that plant is

474
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,680
likely to get, because your colder and longer winters are

475
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,640
going to prevent it from growing quite as much. The

476
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,880
warmer your climate, the more likely you will want to

477
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,000
use the higher end of that range, because your plant

478
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,000
is going to have a longer growing season and thus

479
00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:57,400
it is going to grow more. There's a lot of

480
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,559
other growing conditions that play into that. If it's like

481
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:02,240
ideal growing conditions and you're fertilizing it all the time.

482
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:04,200
Of course, it's going to get bigger than if it's

483
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,240
you know, struggling in you know, sandy dune soil and

484
00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:10,000
not getting irrigated like in my garden in your.

485
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: Right Stacey, as you would say, your mileage may vary, yeah,

486
00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:16,799
very much. So if you're planting something in northern Minnesota

487
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,440
compared to someone in North Carolina, that with could be

488
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,200
possibly significantly.

489
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: Different, definitely, And it also is a personal choice. Like

490
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:27,799
I was saying, I know a lot of you don't

491
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:30,200
like your plants to touch. I love my plants to touch,

492
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,440
so I'm always reducing that spacing as almost as much

493
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,279
as I possibly can to make sure I get as

494
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,519
much in. So if you definitely don't want your plants

495
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:40,720
to touch, that's another case where you would use that

496
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,759
higher end of the range and space them at three

497
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,640
or four feet. Also useful in hedging. If you're going

498
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,599
with a hedge, especially in a cold climate, I would

499
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:52,599
always always use the smaller number because you're doing it

500
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,039
for coverage. You don't want to wait the rest of

501
00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:57,200
your life for things to grow into with each other.

502
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:02,599
So it can be that's where the subjective aspect of

503
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,119
it comes in. But we're not trying to be deliberately

504
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,799
obtuse about how wide the plant gets. It's just that

505
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,960
it is a There are just so many factors, so

506
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:15,000
you know that's where sort of the art part of

507
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:15,880
gardening comes in.

508
00:26:16,039 --> 00:26:21,559
Speaker 1: Sure, and personal preference absolutely definitely, you bet all right,

509
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,880
CJ writes to us this week High Team, I look

510
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,680
forward to your show every week. Question. I planted this

511
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,400
ginko princeton centry in my High Desert Zone six B

512
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,759
garden summer twenty twenty three. I noticed this funky growth

513
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:39,519
down at the base of the trunk, and I'm wondering

514
00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:42,759
if I should be concerned. The vertical lines may be

515
00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:46,640
from feral cats at the nursery. According to the nursery

516
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,920
gal who sold it to me, it seemed to do

517
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,039
okay last summer, a little bit of new growth and

518
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,599
some minor tip die off at the top, signing off

519
00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:57,519
with a sassy wink.

520
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: There you go, right, So this plant is being girdled

521
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,599
as we speak. So CJ did send some pictures and

522
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,759
you will see those in the YouTube version as well

523
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:09,839
as on our show notes at Gardenings Simplified on Air

524
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,759
dot com. And yeah, this is a bad case of

525
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,799
girdling and your tree will not be long for the

526
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:17,599
world unless you fix this.

527
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:20,319
Speaker 1: So it's choking.

528
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: It's choking itself. Yeah, so you can see that the

529
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:24,359
roots are kind of that you can already see that

530
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,519
they're moving in a circular motion. You can also see

531
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:31,519
that they're kind of you know, twirling and twisting around

532
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:35,519
each other. And so, uh, first of the first thing

533
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:36,839
that I would do, and one thing that I noticed

534
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,440
from your photo CJ, is that you have your drip

535
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,680
emitters right up close to the base of the plant.

536
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:44,680
And I don't think that that's helping, because that's what

537
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,640
that's doing is keeping that area really really moist and

538
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,799
probably leading to a lot more hair root development there.

539
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,000
You really want those emitters to be out at the

540
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:58,279
canopy of the plant. Now, Princeton Princeton sentry is a

541
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:01,279
somewhat fastigic ginko, so that might not be very very

542
00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:04,480
far off, But look at where the leaves are and

543
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,119
try to position your emitters to that so called dripline

544
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,759
or just outside of it where when it rains, the

545
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:12,799
water drips off the plant and makes that ring around

546
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,440
the planet. That will help a lot. I don't think

547
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,480
you're doing yourself any favors there, and then I think

548
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,160
you got two choices here. You can dig up the

549
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,599
plant and correct the girdling, which would probably be the

550
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,319
best thing to do. It's only two years not quite

551
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:30,759
two years old, so it's not going to be like

552
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,720
a lot of roots. I don't think it'd be super

553
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:35,680
hard to dig. And even though doing this will set

554
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,599
it back a little bit, I think that the investment

555
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:41,880
that you put into it to correct it will certainly

556
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,160
pay off in the long run because the other alternative,

557
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,920
and you do have to fix this, is to just

558
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200
take an axe or a saw and take out some

559
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:52,599
of the worst defenders, and that's not really ideal.

560
00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: What would you do same thing. I really have nothing

561
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:58,160
to add, And I think your point, as far as

562
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,039
the water is concerned, or when people fertilized trees, always

563
00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:04,480
work your way out to the drip line. Let's not

564
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,720
work around the trunk.

565
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:07,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easy to think that that's where you would

566
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:09,200
want to have it, but now you really want to

567
00:29:09,599 --> 00:29:12,559
you know, the tree basically does kind of adapt to

568
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:14,920
the fact that that's where the water comes from when

569
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,039
it rains, so that is where you want to really

570
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:20,400
target your watering on any tree or shrub, or really

571
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,640
even a perennial, because bigger perennials will have a drip

572
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,160
line as well.

573
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,759
Speaker 1: We have some pictures to show folks who are watching

574
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:29,839
the YouTube version because Bethany writes to us, Hello, thanks

575
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,160
for the show. I enjoy listening to it every week.

576
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,640
I've learned a lot, and i'd like advice on what

577
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:39,160
to do with my laurels. Don't rest on your laurels, right,

578
00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:42,839
that was easy. Last year, a few patches started wilting

579
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,440
and turning yellow brown, and now several of the shrubs

580
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,640
are affected. I tried pruning out the affected branches, spraying fungicide.

581
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,279
It's still spreading. Do I need to remove the affected

582
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,680
plants completely? Can I cut them back? I want to

583
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,880
try and protect the remaining healthy one.

584
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: Right, So do take a moment to look at Bethany's photos.

585
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,240
If you're not watching us on YouTube, go to Gardening

586
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,079
Simplified on air dot com and you'll see them. And

587
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,759
I wanted to answer Bethany's question today because it is

588
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,000
an issue that I think a lot of people are

589
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:17,000
likely to see happen in their yards this coming spring.

590
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,319
The laurel that she's talking about is a cherry laurel

591
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:24,160
Prunus Laura sirasus. So it's not like a bay laurel

592
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:27,400
or something like that. It is a brunly fevergreen does

593
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,720
want a sitic soil. But you know, a lot of

594
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:33,640
times when we see things starting to go wrong and

595
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:36,920
there's multiple of plants here in this planting, our first

596
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,799
thought is that it's a disease and it's spreading. But

597
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,599
I think when you look at Bethanese photos and if

598
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,480
this is happening to you, if you take a moment

599
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:47,759
to step back and really look at the area where

600
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:50,279
this is happening, you're going to start picking up on

601
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:53,279
a little bit more clues, more clues than you may

602
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:55,759
have just initially thought by looking at you know, from

603
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:59,519
one direction, and what I see here in Bethany's planting

604
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:02,519
is that all the plants on the right side are dying.

605
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,599
And what I notice is that there is a downspout

606
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,920
from the house right there, and very likely what is

607
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,279
happening is probably they're getting too much water. They're having

608
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:20,119
soil drainage issues or possibly like leeching issues from excess

609
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,000
water there that is either leading to drainage issues or

610
00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:27,960
leading to a pH problem because cherry laurels do want

611
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,279
an acidic pH so it could be just like leeching

612
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:33,960
out all of the organic matter. But when you look

613
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,680
at this and you see that those damage plants are

614
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,160
so concentrated together and not just randomly through your hedge.

615
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:42,119
It's not like one down at one end and then

616
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,480
one in the middle. These are concentrated together. So something

617
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:48,200
is happening. It is almost certainly cultural, which is to

618
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,200
say it's related to water, you know, for soil fertility

619
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:54,839
something like that, and not a pest or disease, although

620
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:56,839
it could be rabbits. So what you're going to need

621
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,839
to do, Bethany is I would recommend clearing away your

622
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,000
mulch and trying to get down there and look what's

623
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:07,240
going on. You know, is the soil extremely wet and soggy.

624
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:11,000
I think that your plants that have turned brown are

625
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:13,559
not going to come back. But the ones that have

626
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,319
kind of that like sad, pale green color, which that

627
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,880
is definitely not a great color to see in your

628
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,440
garden potentially could be saved. But you're going to have

629
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,559
to remedy the situation. So you need to get down

630
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:28,119
there and see. It's so easy for people to think

631
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
when they see something going wrong with the tops of

632
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:33,480
their plants that it's a pest, a bug or something

633
00:32:33,559 --> 00:32:37,119
like that. But I mean, honestly, nine point five times

634
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,960
out of ten, it's always an issue that originates at

635
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,039
the roots and the leaves are just manifesting whatever problem

636
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:44,400
that is.

637
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:47,839
Speaker 1: I agree, look down, not up, and with broad leaf

638
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,839
evergreens rhododendrons are another example. I phy top thro a

639
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,519
can be a problem, and I think you nailed it

640
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,240
on the head, Stacey, and I would look at that

641
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,480
soil because if you don't have good drainage, and we

642
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:02,559
don't know if this is a heavy soil or not,

643
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,799
but without good drainage, you're going to have those problems

644
00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:09,680
and it will appear in the top of the plant

645
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,359
as though it's browning, turning, pale and moping. Yeah, and

646
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,160
that's exactly what I see in these patres.

647
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: And you know, phi toop throa is a disease, but

648
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,000
phi toop through a root rot is a disease that's

649
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:23,759
caused by wet soil. So it's not really a situation

650
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:26,200
where like, oh gosh, it caught this horrible disease. It's

651
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,480
a it's a disease that kind of manifests based on

652
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:31,559
the cultural condition additions, and then it's the phytoproa that

653
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,240
might take it out. But the phytopthroa is only there

654
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,079
because of the poor drainage. And Bethany does look like

655
00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:40,599
she is located in Tennessee, so almost certainly a pretty

656
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,279
heavy clay soil and rocky soil which can definitely, you know,

657
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,440
lead to drainage issues. So clear that multuay dig around

658
00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:51,960
look for clues. After you have a heavy rain, go

659
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,279
out and check and see how much moisture that downspout

660
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,160
is funneling into that bed, and you know, possibly the

661
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,599
solution is a simple is redirecting that down spout out

662
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:04,400
into the lawn instead of into your bed. Great, so

663
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,119
there's always more clues there if you look. But anyway, Bethany,

664
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,400
I'm sorry to hear about your cherry laurels and hope

665
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,320
that you're able to save them. Anything that's still green,

666
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,239
I would at least give it a little bit more

667
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,480
time if you're able to remedy the soil issues. We're

668
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:21,079
going to take a little bit of a break, and

669
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:25,039
when we come back, we have gardenings simplified fan favorite

670
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:28,960
Birdman in the house to talk bird So stay tuned.

671
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,480
Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified Podcast, brought to

672
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,519
you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning

673
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:43,599
flowering shrubs and evergreens are trialed and tested by experts

674
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,800
with your success in mind. Learn more at Proven winnerscolor

675
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,400
Choice dot com.

676
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. Today in Branching News,

677
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,599
I want to kick off branching News Stacey simply by

678
00:34:56,599 --> 00:35:01,039
sharing that for our YouTube viewers or rad listeners or

679
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,079
podcast listeners. I'm going to be in the Chicago Land

680
00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:09,280
area on March eighth, so that's Saturday, March eighth. I'm

681
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,119
going to be giving a couple presentations at Plathill Nursery.

682
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:14,159
Have you ever been there?

683
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: I have not been there, but I know they are

684
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,440
one of the biggest and best nurseries in the Chicagoland area.

685
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: Fantastic nursery. I'm going to talk about plant scaping also

686
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:26,679
easy to grow plants. The presentations are based on the

687
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,679
work you and I do here on the Gardening Simplified Show.

688
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,480
So if you're in the Chicago Land area, love to

689
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,079
see on March eight, that's in Carpentersville, Illinois, plat Hill

690
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:48,599
Nursery Stacy coming up on February fourteen through seventeen this weekend, Yes,

691
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:52,920
is the Global Bird Count And this is exciting and

692
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,000
if you want to learn more about it, just go

693
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:59,239
to birdcount dot org. As a matter of fact, you

694
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:05,599
can follow live online as people submit their bird counts.

695
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,199
It's kind of that's neat, yeah, and to count birds.

696
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,440
And I thought, who better to talk to about this?

697
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:16,239
I mean, we just got off super Bowl weekend, right,

698
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,320
super Bowl super Bowl weekend, So let's move on to

699
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,960
Global bird Count and celebrate with a birdman himself, Bill Stovell. Bill,

700
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,639
how you doing this winter?

701
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,599
Speaker 3: Doing well this winter? How are you doing? There? Sounds

702
00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:33,519
pretty good from here.

703
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm anxious for spring, Bill, can't wait. As a matter

704
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:41,159
of fact, you know, I was thinking this past week

705
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,960
watching the birds at my bird feeder, with the ground

706
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:49,679
still snow covered and everything icy and frozen. I start

707
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,719
to think about birds running out of berries and natural

708
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,280
food sources. It's probably a good time of the year

709
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,119
to be feeding them, right, Bills.

710
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: One of the best. It probably is the best right now.

711
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,199
They're in more need. Now. All my berry trees except

712
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:09,960
my hawthorns are picked beer. They've been each each one

713
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,519
in the winter berries and then the all the you know,

714
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,840
all the different kinds of berries that we produce for them,

715
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,920
and now they're gone. They're supplemented with some flour seed

716
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:21,960
at the feeder and see.

717
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,039
Speaker 1: It exactly, you know, Stacey. We often talk on the

718
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:29,159
show about putting plants in the landscape that provide those berries,

719
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:32,039
and there are so many great choices, and it's at

720
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:34,800
this time of the year that it becomes pretty evident

721
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:37,199
part of the reason why we do it.

722
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:41,639
Speaker 2: Definitely. The birds are very active at my suwet feeder,

723
00:37:41,639 --> 00:37:43,360
and you know, that reminds me of a question, Bill,

724
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,960
It's been on my mind lately, and you are the

725
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,079
perfect person to ask. So I have a seuwet feeder,

726
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:52,800
and of course, you know, my garden is primarily geared

727
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,440
around attracting and making it hospitable for birds. So there's

728
00:37:56,519 --> 00:37:59,239
plenty of shelter. I've got evergreen shelter just you know,

729
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,519
a few steps away. I've got a magnolia tree that

730
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:05,639
is very very close for them to fly into. And

731
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:09,079
you know what else, I've got Cooper's hawks and I

732
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:11,119
love you know, I love birds of prey, so I,

733
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,840
you know, I understand that that's a natural part of it.

734
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,960
But sometimes I do get to asking myself, am I

735
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:20,719
just like setting up a shooting fish in a barrel situation?

736
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,480
Am I making things worse for the birds when I'm

737
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:24,760
trying to make things better?

738
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,119
Speaker 3: Not so often. First of all, the hawks are there

739
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,719
once in a while, they don't stay there a long time,

740
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:35,079
and they're only good one out of seven, you know,

741
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:38,400
they save it seven chances before they get one bird. Oh,

742
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:40,920
I really get one that's a little a little weaker

743
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,000
than the others for some reason. Really, And yeah, And

744
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,360
one of the reasons that we have so many birds

745
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,480
and then the nests are so large, you know, the

746
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,360
flocks are so big, is that there's a there is

747
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,119
a predatory situation, you know, throughout the country, and that's

748
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:00,840
only one of them. There's diseases, and there's windows, and

749
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,639
there's other things. So it's just just part of their

750
00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:07,679
life and you're not doing anything bad. You're probably doing

751
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,280
more a whole lot more good by feeding. And our

752
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,039
hawks need to need to survive too, because they take

753
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:18,679
care of the more crippled birds and the you know,

754
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,159
they call they call the herd or the flock, any

755
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,480
of the weaker one. So, and they're gorgeous birds.

756
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: Oh I'm crazy about them. I do love to see them.

757
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,679
But you know, I'm not gonna lie. I did see

758
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,960
a pair work to take out a woodpecker, and I'm like,

759
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:38,800
couldn't have just been a sparrow, a starling?

760
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 3: Maybe?

761
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 2: Did it have to be a woodpecker? That was a

762
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,719
little bit of heartbreaking.

763
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:46,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. Most most often I'll take a morning dove and

764
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:48,039
there's just a big puff of feathers. But we have

765
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:50,440
a lot of mourning. Does at the second most popular

766
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,000
popular bird there is a morning dove.

767
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: So there's no shortage on my house, that's for sure.

768
00:39:55,679 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 3: Just just another pigeon.

769
00:39:57,559 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

770
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: I think what we ought to do is say up

771
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,559
an ad hoc committee to analyze the situation. Yeah, I

772
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:12,280
know that was well global bird count So Bill, what's

773
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,800
the use in counting birds? I think I have a

774
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,360
good idea. But you know, the website states that scientists

775
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,000
need hundreds of thousands of people worldwide to report what

776
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:30,480
they're seeing in their backyards, neighborhoods, wild places around the world.

777
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:37,599
They call it participatory science, community science. Because we're interested

778
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:41,320
in the health of birds. For our viewers on YouTube,

779
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,880
showing you some pictures of some tucans that I took

780
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,559
pictures of in Costa Rica a few months ago, just

781
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:54,480
amazing to watch. So we love, we love the the

782
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:58,320
enjoyment of watching birds. But Bill, the point here is

783
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,119
that we can make a difference too by helping track

784
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,840
and report birds in a bird count correct correct.

785
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 3: This is just a fantastic possibility of a snapshot of

786
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,840
everything that's on the globe at the same moment, so

787
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,960
you can get an idea about how many and what

788
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,880
kind of birds we have, and if there's a real

789
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,119
problem with one species or two, then you can turn

790
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:28,360
a little at tension towards the conservation of that, making

791
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,079
their habitat better or their food sources better or something

792
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:34,239
like that. So it's a management skill and it's an

793
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,920
inventory of what we have. Our population changes all the time,

794
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:39,639
so we need to know.

795
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: So it's useful to have it at the same time

796
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,599
every year, even though the actual date changes. Of course,

797
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,360
you know they need to have it on a weekend

798
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,760
so humans can actually participate. The birds have different schedules,

799
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,559
of course, but then you have that consistency from your

800
00:41:54,639 --> 00:41:57,360
dear that it's always that second weekend in February or

801
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,239
third weekend in February or whatever it is.

802
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 3: Well, then your birds are pretty much in the same

803
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,079
place as they were last year at your feeder or

804
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:07,440
the same places in your in your yard or your

805
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,400
woodland nearby, or the walking trails whatever out in the fields.

806
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,559
Speaker 2: And so with the backguard great bird count, is any

807
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:19,440
contribution valuable? Like even if you can only watch for

808
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:22,079
you know, five minutes and you do only see a

809
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:24,719
morning dove or you know something like that, is that

810
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:25,880
still useful?

811
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's one reason that they haven't spread

812
00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:31,920
for such a long time, because you're not going to

813
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,559
be watching for that time. You can go and spend

814
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:37,599
fifteen minutes and take a note, and then next time

815
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:40,639
you're fixing the dinner or something that that you look

816
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:43,280
out to do another fifteen minutes and you come, you

817
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,000
pile it together, and all of a sudden you find

818
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:48,639
you the species that are coming in on a consistent basis,

819
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:52,840
and you've got your observation for your territory. Right.

820
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: So, anyone who can even dedicate a few minutes and

821
00:42:57,039 --> 00:42:58,440
whether or not you have a feeder. Right, This is

822
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,480
not dependent on whether you have a feeder. It's just

823
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:04,880
whatever birds are present in your backyard where you are well.

824
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: You greatly increase your possibilities if you have a feeder

825
00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:13,440
and uh water, Yeah, you know, heated bird baths one

826
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,199
of the two because that attracts the birds and sewet

827
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:20,360
which is a different group of birds too. Woodpeckers and

828
00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:23,960
that are more into the suet where your seed feeders

829
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,639
are are different groups of birds. But uh, then you've

830
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:31,480
got the full full population available at that time, you know,

831
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,400
for the you know, whenever, whenever you had chance to

832
00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:36,000
look at it. You don't have to spend a lot

833
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:36,719
of time doing it.

834
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm amazed at the great work done by many

835
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,320
organizations and many people that care about these beautiful birds

836
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,440
that we enjoy in our outdoor environments along with our plants.

837
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,559
Cornell University and the Autuban Society, and it goes on

838
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,679
and on. I remember in the past interviewing someone who

839
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:04,360
volunteered to pick up birds at the base of a

840
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,639
tall building year round and dead birds that had struck

841
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:12,360
the building, and I was, you know, during the interview,

842
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,480
I was saying, how do you do it. I would

843
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:17,920
be so depressed at the end of the day walking away.

844
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,079
But it's important work that they're doing.

845
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 3: Bill.

846
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,559
Speaker 1: When it comes to the environment, the health of birds

847
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:31,239
and wildlife in our landscapes are just a snapshot, like

848
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,599
you said, of how healthy our environment is.

849
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:39,039
Speaker 3: Well, they are in a canary in the mine for

850
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,159
the whole population. Yes, it's an indicator of health, and

851
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,039
birds are one of the primary indicators because they're more vulnerable.

852
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:52,039
You can see the population fluctuations first, and birds before

853
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:53,880
other things are apparent.

854
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:05,639
Speaker 2: Just to pause here.

855
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 3: Yelling to launch and also amphibians.

856
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: But I know, I think we're all just sitting here

857
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,280
going gosh, it's really sad.

858
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: So Birdman. The other thought that runs through my mind.

859
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,760
I went outside this morning to clear snow from the driveway,

860
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,440
and it was quiet and very cold, but I listened

861
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,639
to the cardinals singing in the trees. But I wanted

862
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:35,079
to remind people of something you taught me a long

863
00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:37,599
time ago, and that is it's at this time of

864
00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:41,039
the year that, more than just about any time of

865
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:43,719
the year, water is important for birds.

866
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,199
Speaker 3: Right It is the most important right now because they

867
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:49,079
can't get it easily. They can't melt snow and have

868
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,320
it be effective with their body temperatures. They need to

869
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,079
have flowing their water that's unfrozen, whether it's along the curb,

870
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:00,559
or whether it's along a crook bank, or of all

871
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,119
a bird bath that has a heater in it so

872
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:05,239
they can just come anytime they need it. And they

873
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,199
need to take clean So they need to take baths

874
00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:11,400
occasionally too to keep the picks and the other things off,

875
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,519
because they need their feathers to be efficient.

876
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: I remember that polar vortex winter of twenty fifteen when

877
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,000
everything just froze solid, and the number of dead birds

878
00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:23,440
that we saw out there. Like I said, why don't

879
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,119
we queue up old Yeller and watch the end here?

880
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,880
Now that we're depressed, let's move on to something more happy,

881
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,079
hummingbirds and robins and all of that good stuff that's

882
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:34,679
coming soon.

883
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,119
Speaker 3: Right yesterday I saw four robins and three male bluebirds

884
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,079
in a sunny spot, so they're they're looking around for

885
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,159
a few of the berries that are left. They're looking

886
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:48,239
at the sunny spots on the next of the building

887
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,000
where the ground is now clear because it's been reflexively heated,

888
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,039
so they're stretching in that along the bases of the

889
00:46:55,079 --> 00:46:58,119
trees where there's still a little ground showing through, and

890
00:46:58,199 --> 00:47:01,599
along the streams where there's some green to eat eat

891
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:04,920
things and fine bug. So they're struggling out, but they're

892
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,079
doing just fine.

893
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: Sorry, I think I'm still sad.

894
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 1: I'm depressed. I'm going home.

895
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 2: We're sick of winter, bill, Yeah, as I'm sure the

896
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:21,320
birds are.

897
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm ready for spring. Well.

898
00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: And of course people on YouTube watch us all around

899
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,199
the world, or they're watching in the south, and they're

900
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,920
wondering what we're talking about here, right, that's true.

901
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 3: Well, there's some benefits to this. There are no mosquitos

902
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,320
fighting me today, that's true.

903
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:43,079
Speaker 2: We got to be grateful for those things. So as

904
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:45,559
spring does come closer, what are some of the first

905
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,360
migrants that are going to come back that we should

906
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,719
have our eyes peeled for.

907
00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 3: When you see a plot of red winged blackbirds at

908
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,320
the edge of a field, and you know things are

909
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,960
coming on. When you look up in the sky and

910
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,679
you see angels flying over and calling, When you look

911
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,800
up in the sky and you see some ducks and

912
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,159
geese and trumpeter swan's going on over, you know things

913
00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:10,920
are starting to move.

914
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,199
Speaker 2: And why the red wing blackbird. I'm curious about that.

915
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,159
Speaker 3: Do they migrate, Yeah, yeah, they move further south and

916
00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:24,639
then they come back and flocks. They don't migrate very far.

917
00:48:24,679 --> 00:48:26,840
I don't think they just go down to where there's

918
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,960
not so much snow. It isn't everybody goes to Florida.

919
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,039
They go to Tennessee or or you know, there's become

920
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:35,280
good things in Tennessee. They got horses and whiskey. They

921
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:36,960
got good things.

922
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,079
Speaker 1: And those red winged blackbirds they're just establishing their perch.

923
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:47,599
So come spring, when I'm out there running on the trail,

924
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,719
they've got their clear vantage point to peck me in

925
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:51,199
the heads.

926
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 3: They set up a little exercise parlors around you, so

927
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,239
they're they're really in shape to do that.

928
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: That's great, So hummingbirds. Everyone looks forward to to that

929
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,440
time of the year. I was looking online in social

930
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,360
media and saw just the most incredible picture of an

931
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:20,239
indigo bunting in a field of flowers. Talk about gorgeous color,

932
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:23,559
you know. And I'm a person who has always felt

933
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,000
in Major League Baseball, you've got the Orioles, you've got

934
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,119
the Blue Jays, you've got the Cardinals. I've always felt

935
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,440
there should be an Indigo bunting team. I love that

936
00:49:33,559 --> 00:49:34,159
bird bill.

937
00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:38,599
Speaker 3: They're great. They like little brambles and there is a

938
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:41,639
little spark and blue that's down inside the raspberry bushes

939
00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,800
and there, and that's where they ens, and that's where

940
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,679
they live. But oh boy, are there's something when you

941
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,119
see them?

942
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 2: They really are?

943
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: They are so any remaining words of wisdom for us

944
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,199
here birdman, as we we anxiously await spring.

945
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: Keep the bird feeders in a sewet is full, leave

946
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,519
your peter plugged in, and uh stay turned, put the

947
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:09,079
logs in a fireplace, and wait where it's on the

948
00:50:09,159 --> 00:50:12,239
downhill slide. The days are getting longer, they are.

949
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:15,079
Speaker 1: We're talking to the birdman, Bill Stoville. Hey, Bill, any

950
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:17,519
idea when the loons are going to arrive on the

951
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:18,199
lake for you?

952
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: I'll bet it's going to be March fifteenth to nineteenth.

953
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 1: Oh really?

954
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: Is there a line in Vegas on that?

955
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I take the nineteenth actually been the nineteenth

956
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,679
a pretty pretty often. It's there's not a lot of

957
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:40,920
gamblers for that. You gotta be loony to do that.

958
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,039
Speaker 1: Oh boy, so you are the loon ranger, aren't your Bill?

959
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,559
Speaker 3: Yes? I am the ranger southernmost late in Bury County

960
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:53,719
or in the United States, it has loons.

961
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: Well, and that's only a month away, so that is

962
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,719
definitely something to look forward to.

963
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,039
Speaker 3: A month away, and the male will come in first,

964
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:02,960
and a couple of weeks later, the next week the

965
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:06,320
female will come in and they'll start paddling around and

966
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,440
diving and cooling and doing their pair bonding, and pretty simon,

967
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,719
I'll have nests and eggs and foots in the air.

968
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,559
Speaker 2: Well. I love it, you know.

969
00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: Alan Armitage has told us Bill that the reason we

970
00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:22,280
garden gardeners never get old because they always have something

971
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,119
to look forward to. I guess the same could be

972
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:26,920
said for birders right.

973
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the life, the spring, the rejuvenation happiness that goes

974
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,239
along with it, the color and the song, the fresh

975
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,480
air from the leaves that are growing and creating oxygen

976
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:43,119
forest in the woods. It's just rebirth. It's a great thing,

977
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:43,960
it really is.

978
00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bill, I feel so much better.

979
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: I'm glad we were able to end on a happy

980
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:49,880
note too.

981
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, instead of a silent pause.

982
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always fun to talk to you bird man,

983
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,320
and thank you for your enthusiasm them for wildlife. And birds.

984
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,519
We really appreciate you.

985
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,119
Speaker 3: Well. It takes a group of us to make it happen,

986
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:09,320
and it's happening with us, So thank you very much

987
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,920
for letting me play well.

988
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,599
Speaker 2: Thanks Bill, take care take care of Bell youto. Well,

989
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:15,960
I don't know about you, but that made me even

990
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,079
more ready for spring than I already was. And I

991
00:52:18,199 --> 00:52:19,719
was already pretty ready for spring.

992
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:20,679
Speaker 1: I have spring fever.

993
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: I think you had spring fever since November. November, we

994
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,679
want to thank Birdman Bill Stovell for joining us. Thank you, Rick,

995
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,840
thank you, thank you Adriana, and of course thank you

996
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,639
so much to all of you for listening and watching.

997
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,320
We hope you can join us on Friday, February twenty

998
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,159
first for our new Plants live reveal on YouTube. We'll

999
00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:40,559
see you then