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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the deep dive. Today. We're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>like cracking the code, you know, cryptography and network security.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh sounds intense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, using excerpts from this book by William Stallings. It's

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<v Speaker 1>called Cryptography and Network Security.

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<v Speaker 2>So like a digital self defense crash course kind of thing, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So the source material is super detailed. It's got diagrams,

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<v Speaker 1>real world examples, the whole shebang.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh cool, So like those aha moments to really help

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<v Speaker 2>you get.

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<v Speaker 1>It, yeah, exactly. And it seems like it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>for beginners either. There are even some project suggestions if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to you know, get your hands dirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, that's pretty cool. So there's definitely depth there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds like we'll be able to really analyze things like

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<v Speaker 2>all those different kinds of security attacks active, passive, and

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<v Speaker 2>then all the ways to fight.

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<v Speaker 1>Back right encryption and digital signatures. It even talks about

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<v Speaker 1>the importance of standards, which you know might not sound exciting,

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<v Speaker 1>but think about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, without those rules, the whole sis them could.

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<v Speaker 2>Just like fall apart totally. It'd be chaos.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, total chaos. And speaking of like different attacks, the

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<v Speaker 1>book starts off explaining active versus passive. It's like someone

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<v Speaker 1>breaking into your house versus someone just watching from the street,

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<v Speaker 1>like the peeper versus the actual burglar.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, right right? I get that. Yeah, so passive

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<v Speaker 2>is about gathering information. They're not actually trying to change anything,

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<v Speaker 2>just like snooping around. Think about someone intercepting your emails

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe they're like analyzing your network traffic patterns.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. So passive is sneaky surveillance.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exact.

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<v Speaker 1>Active is causing real damage, like messing with your stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, think about someone changing data in your emails or

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<v Speaker 2>launching one of those denial of service attacks to shut

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<v Speaker 2>down like a website you're trying to use, ugh the worst.

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<v Speaker 1>So passive is sneaky. Active is destructive, got it? But

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<v Speaker 1>how do we fight back against these digital delinquents? I'm

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<v Speaker 1>guessing encryption?

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<v Speaker 2>You got it? Encryption. It's like the art of secret writing,

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<v Speaker 2>making information in comprehensible without the key to decipher it.

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<v Speaker 2>The book goes through some cool history, like the Caesar

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<v Speaker 2>cipher and the Playfair cipher. Did you know Baron Playfer

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<v Speaker 2>of Saint Andrew's actually used the Playfair cipher at the

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<v Speaker 2>British Foreign Office?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, that's pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, talk about cloak and dagger stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like those spy movies where they're passing coded messages.

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<v Speaker 2>Ye, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean those old ciphers seem kind of simple.

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<v Speaker 1>Could they really keep secrets safe?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they were a good start, but the book shows

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<v Speaker 2>how they can be broken to cryptanalysis. It's basically code

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<v Speaker 2>breaking involves things like frequency analysis and pattern recognition. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like a puzzle. You got to look for those little clues,

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<v Speaker 2>those weaknesses in the cipher.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh. So it's a constant back and forth. Yeah, like

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<v Speaker 1>the code makers versus the codebreaker.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And speaking of tougher codes, the book talks about the

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<v Speaker 1>Visionnaire cipher. It uses a keyword to scramble the message. Ah,

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<v Speaker 1>reminds me of those decoder rings we had as kids.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good analogy. The Visionaire cipher is a

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<v Speaker 2>great example of how things got more complex, makes it

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<v Speaker 2>harder to crack. And what's cool is by understanding how

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<v Speaker 2>it's broken, we can appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of

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<v Speaker 2>all kinds of encryption methods.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we've gone from simple ciphers to ones with keywords.

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<v Speaker 1>But then the book jumps to DES data Encryption standard.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds serious, like government level stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It was DES was the go to for decades. It

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<v Speaker 2>uses a structure called a feistal cipher, which is like

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<v Speaker 2>a building block for lots of encryption algorithms. Think of

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<v Speaker 2>it as a series of rounds where data gets scrambled

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<v Speaker 2>and mixed up using specific operations. And within DES there

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<v Speaker 2>are these components called s boxes. They introduce even more

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<v Speaker 2>confusion S boxes.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds almost too simple for something so important.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, but they are crucial. They make the encryption process

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<v Speaker 2>non linear, so much harder for attackers to analyze patterns

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<v Speaker 2>and crack the POD.

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<v Speaker 1>So even with like the best computers, cracking DES would

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<v Speaker 1>take forever.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much, it took lots of time and resources. Like

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<v Speaker 2>brute force wasn't really an option.

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<v Speaker 1>So BES was like fort and for data at least

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<v Speaker 1>for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was pretty solid for its time, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Tech always moves forward. What about newer algorithms like AES

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<v Speaker 1>Advanced Encryption Standard, Right? Is that like the next level

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<v Speaker 1>of digital security.

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<v Speaker 2>You could definitely say that AS was designed to replace

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<v Speaker 2>DES and it offers even better security and efficiency.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so AES is the gold standard now, yeah, pretty much.

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<v Speaker 1>But even with the best encryption, the book emphasizes key management.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what good is an unbreakable lock if you.

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<v Speaker 2>Lose the key exactly. Key management is all about how

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<v Speaker 2>you securely, store, distribute, and control access to those cryptographic keys.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine a bank vault. They don't just have one lock, right,

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<v Speaker 2>there are multiple locks, checks and balances, all to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure only the right people can get in. That's good.

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<v Speaker 2>Key management in the digital world makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>But are there different ways to manage keys? Is it

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<v Speaker 1>like a one size fits all situation?

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<v Speaker 2>Not at all. There are different techniques. You've got symmetric

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<v Speaker 2>key cryptography where everyone uses the same key, and then

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<v Speaker 2>there's public key cryptography, where you have a pair of keys,

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<v Speaker 2>one public, one private.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, public and private keys. That sounds kind.

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<v Speaker 2>Of confusing, Yeah it can be. That's where things get

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<v Speaker 2>really interesting. So with public key cryptography, you use your

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<v Speaker 2>private key to encrypt a message, and then only the

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<v Speaker 2>person with your public key can decrypt it. It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know those special locks, only one key can open them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So it's like sending a postcard, like anyone can

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<v Speaker 1>see it, but only the recipient has the key. To

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<v Speaker 1>like decode the message exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Public key cryptography really revolutionized how we do secure communication,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's the basis for things like digital signatures, which

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<v Speaker 2>the book gets into next.

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<v Speaker 1>Digital signatures are those kind of like the electronic version

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, actually signing a document. I'm always a

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<v Speaker 1>little I don't know, unsure about stuff like that online.

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<v Speaker 1>How you know it's legit?

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<v Speaker 2>Good point. Trust is super important here. So digital signatures

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<v Speaker 2>they use public key cryptography, but they're verifying both the

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<v Speaker 2>authenticity and the integrity of the message. Let's say you

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<v Speaker 2>get an email it's digitally signed. You can use the

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<v Speaker 2>center's public key to check if the signature's valid, and

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<v Speaker 2>that tells you one it really came from them, and

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<v Speaker 2>two nobody messed with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Along the way. Okay, so it's like a tamper proof seal,

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<v Speaker 1>but it also confirms who sent it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty cool. But if anyone can have my public key,

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't they just use it to like fake my signature

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<v Speaker 2>on something.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a smart question. The way the math works in

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<v Speaker 1>public key cryptography, it's almost impossible to forge a signature

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<v Speaker 1>without the private key. Think of it like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to perfectly copy someone's fingerprint. It's really hard to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. That makes me feel a little bit better about

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<v Speaker 2>online transactions and stuff. Speaking of which, the book mentions

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<v Speaker 2>Carberos it's a security protocol, but the name sounds like

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<v Speaker 2>it's straight out of Greek mythology.

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<v Speaker 1>It is Carebera's you know, like the three headed dog

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<v Speaker 1>guarding the underwall.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Right, plays a kind of similar role in the

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<v Speaker 2>digital world. It's all about authentication, making sure users are

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<v Speaker 2>who they say they are, and then giving them access

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<v Speaker 2>to specific things on the network.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like the digital bouncer checking IDs at the door.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, but instead of a physical ID, Carberos uses tickets,

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<v Speaker 2>these electronic credentials that basically say hey, you're allowed in here,

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<v Speaker 2>and these tickets are issued by a trusted third party

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<v Speaker 2>called the Key Distribution Center or KDC for short.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds pretty secure, but where do passwords fit in? Does

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<v Speaker 1>Garberos like send them over the network? That seems risky.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the clever part. It never sends passwords over the network,

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<v Speaker 2>so that vulnerability is gone. Instead, it uses encrypted messages

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<v Speaker 2>and timestamps.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so it's more like a secret handshake that

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<v Speaker 1>only the user and the system know exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And the book also talks about how Carberos has evolved.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, newer versions fixed security holes made the whole

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<v Speaker 2>system tougher. Speaking of improvements, let's jump to certificates. They're

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<v Speaker 2>huge for building trust online, especially for websites.

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<v Speaker 1>Certificates those are the things that give you that little

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<v Speaker 1>padlock icon in your browser, right yep. Honestly though I

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<v Speaker 1>never really understood what they do.

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<v Speaker 2>You see that padlock, it means the websites using a certificate,

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<v Speaker 2>specifically something called an X point five zero nine certificate.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of it like a digital ID card for the website,

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<v Speaker 2>basically saying hey, we're legit.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like the website showing its driver's license to

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<v Speaker 1>prove it's who it says.

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<v Speaker 2>It is exactly. But instead of the DMV, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole hierarchy of trust with a Certificate Authority or CAA

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<v Speaker 2>at the top. They're the ones issuing those certificates to websites,

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<v Speaker 2>to individuals verifying identities. When you see that padlock, it

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<v Speaker 2>means a trusted ca has checked that website out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So that padlock is more than just a symbol.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a sign that someone's actually vetted this website. That's reassuring.

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<v Speaker 1>What about email, though, feels so vulnerable? Anyone could be

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<v Speaker 1>reading my messages?

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<v Speaker 2>You're right to be concerned. And the book dives into

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<v Speaker 2>two big solutions for email security PGP which stands for

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<v Speaker 2>pretty Good Privacy and smy IA that's secure Multipurpose Internet

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<v Speaker 2>Mail Extensions.

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<v Speaker 1>WHOA those sound intense? Are they hard to use?

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<v Speaker 2>They might sound intimidating, but they're both designed to make

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<v Speaker 2>email more secure. PGPs known for being pretty user friendly.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got more flexibility. S MIME, on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>it's more standardized, often build right into email clients. But

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<v Speaker 2>they both use encryption, digital signatures, all that good stuff

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<v Speaker 2>to keep your emails confidential and make sure nobody's messing

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<v Speaker 2>with them.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like choosing between a personal lock box versus

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<v Speaker 1>a bankfold. Yeah, both keep things safe, but one might

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<v Speaker 1>be easier for everyday use.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly now switching gears a bit. The book gets into

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<v Speaker 2>a topic that can be kind of scary. Intruders. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>people trying to break into systems doing bad. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>something out of a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, intruders basically hackers that does sound scary. What

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<v Speaker 1>kind of things do they do? And how do we

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<v Speaker 1>even know someone's trying to get in?

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<v Speaker 2>So some intruders they're after your info, like credit card numbers,

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<v Speaker 2>personal data, that kind of stuff. Others might want to

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<v Speaker 2>disrupt services, like take down a website. Maybe they're vandalizing

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<v Speaker 2>something or even using your computer as part of a

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<v Speaker 2>bigger attack. To catch them, we've got intrusion detection systems

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<v Speaker 2>or IDS's. They're like digital detectives, always watching for suspicious activity.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like having a security camera, but for your network,

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<v Speaker 1>just watching for anything weird going on.

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<v Speaker 2>You got it. IDs has use different techniques, like they

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<v Speaker 2>might analyze data looking for unusual patterns, or they have

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<v Speaker 2>rules set up to flag specific actions that could mean trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>But even with fancy IDs is, we can't forget about

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<v Speaker 2>those sneaky threats like viruses and worms.

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<v Speaker 1>Viruses those things that spread through like floppy disks back

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<v Speaker 1>in the day to people still worry about those. Seems

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<v Speaker 1>kind of old school.

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<v Speaker 2>They might sound old school, but viruses and worms there's

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<v Speaker 2>still a big problem. They're types of malware and they

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<v Speaker 2>spread super fast, copying themselves, infecting anything that's vulnerable. Think

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<v Speaker 2>of them like digital parasites, wreaking havoc on your computer.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're not gone. How do they even spread now?

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<v Speaker 1>And how do we protect ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>They can get in through all sorts of ways, like

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<v Speaker 2>malicious email attachments, infect did websites, even those us B

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<v Speaker 2>drives that seem harmless. And to fight back, we've got

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<v Speaker 2>anti virus software. It's like your computer's immune system, always standing,

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<v Speaker 2>finding those threats and getting rid of them.

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<v Speaker 1>So antivirus is like a bodyguard for your computer, checking

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<v Speaker 1>everyone at the door.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great way to put it. But just like

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<v Speaker 2>our own immune system, got to keep that anti virus

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<v Speaker 2>up to date. New threats pop up all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is a constant battle, isn't it. Speaking of battles,

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<v Speaker 1>what about those massive attacks that take down websites and

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<v Speaker 1>mess up online services, those denial of service attacks, or

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<v Speaker 1>DOS attacks as the book calls them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, DOS attacks are a big deal. They basically overwhelm

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<v Speaker 2>the system so much traffic legitimate users can't get through.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine a website getting flooded with so many visitors it crashes.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a DOS attack.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like a digital traffic jam, plugging everything up exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you've got the distributed denial of service attacks,

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<v Speaker 2>the d DOS attacks. Those are even worse. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>just one attack, it's a whole network of compromised computers

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<v Speaker 2>called a botnet. They all flood the target tons of traffic.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, I don't know, a massive army of shoppers

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<v Speaker 2>all trying to cram into a store at the same time.

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<v Speaker 2>Total chaos.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds impossible to deal with. Yeah, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>even defend against something like that?

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<v Speaker 2>Defending against didos is tough, but the book talks about

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<v Speaker 2>some techniques, things like traffic filtering, rate limiting, and working

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<v Speaker 2>with Internet providers. They can help identify and block that

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<v Speaker 2>attack traffic at the source. It's a real arms race,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, attackers and defenders the game exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like you're always reinforcing the castle walls and

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<v Speaker 1>making sure your guards are trained for the newest siege weapons.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of castle walls, what about firewalls? Are those even

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<v Speaker 1>relevant anymore? With all these fancy threats we've been talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Firewalls are essential, absolutely essential. Think of it as your

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<v Speaker 2>first line of defense. They control what gets in and

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<v Speaker 2>out of your network. The book describes it as a

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<v Speaker 2>barrier between a t trusted network like your home or

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<v Speaker 2>office and the untrusted network, which is basically the whole Internet.

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<v Speaker 1>So firewalls are like the gatekeepers, scrutinizing everyone who's trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get into our little digital fortress.

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<v Speaker 2>You got it, And just like gatekeepers, they've evolved over time.

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<v Speaker 2>We used to have simple packet filters just looking at

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<v Speaker 2>basic info. Now there are stateful inspection firewalls, application level gateways.

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<v Speaker 2>They're getting smarter all the time. Adapting to the new

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<v Speaker 2>threats makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>But even with a strong firewall, what about the security

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<v Speaker 1>of the actual operating systems, of the software running on

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<v Speaker 1>our computers. Those could have weaknesses that attackers can exploit.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that's a great point. You can have the strongest

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<v Speaker 2>firewall in the world, but if your systems are full

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<v Speaker 2>of holes, it won't matter much. That's where this idea

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<v Speaker 2>of trusted systems comes in. It's not just adding security later,

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<v Speaker 2>it's built in from the start.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like building a house with reinforced walls instead

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<v Speaker 1>of trying to add bars on the windows later.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, trusted systems they think about security in every part

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<v Speaker 2>of the design. Boot processes, access controls, everything. They're designed

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<v Speaker 2>to resist attacks, and even if someone does get in,

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<v Speaker 2>the damage is minimized.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like making a truly trusted system is super complicated.

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<v Speaker 1>How do we even know if something meets like the

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<v Speaker 1>right standards.

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<v Speaker 2>There's something called the common criteria. It's a framework for

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<v Speaker 2>evaluating how secure something is. Think of it like a

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<v Speaker 2>really strict inspection making sure a building meets all the

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<v Speaker 2>safety codes.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's verifying that those security claims are backed up

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<v Speaker 1>by actual evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's good to know. But with all this encryption, firewalls,

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<v Speaker 1>trusted systems, it's like we're living in a digital fortress,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>It might seem that way, but remember, security isn't about

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<v Speaker 2>being impenetrable. It's about managing risk, having the right protections

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<v Speaker 2>in place for what matters most, and sometimes the most

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<v Speaker 2>important thing is something as simple as choosing a good password.

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<v Speaker 1>You're right, passwords are off of the weakest link.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we finish up, the book leaves us with this

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<v Speaker 2>really cool thought, like, imagine you could design the ultimate

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<v Speaker 2>unbreakable encryption.

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<v Speaker 1>WHOA, yeah, that's a big one, it is. What would

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<v Speaker 1>it even be based on? What kind of challenges would

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<v Speaker 1>you run into.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, you know, being asked to make a lock

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<v Speaker 2>that no key can open, no matter how good the

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<v Speaker 2>locksmith is, right, And it's a question that's driven cryptography forever,

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<v Speaker 2>perfect unbreakable encryption, And it might be more of a

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, a theoretical thing, but trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>there has led to some amazing discoveries in security.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes you think about the like the battle between

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<v Speaker 1>the people making the codes and the people trying to

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<v Speaker 1>break them. Yeah, every time one side makes a move,

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<v Speaker 1>the other side.

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<v Speaker 2>Has to catch up, exactly. And it's not just about

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<v Speaker 2>the math the algorithms, you know, human behavior is a

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<v Speaker 2>huge part of it too. Think about all those weak

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<v Speaker 2>passwords out there, people falling for phishing scams. Right, those

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<v Speaker 2>are vulnerabilities that, no matter how good the tech gets,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't always solve for.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like having the strongest castle, but you forget to

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<v Speaker 1>lock the gate. All that work for nothing exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And that brings up another point. Security it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>about being impenetrable. It's finding the right balance protection versus usability.

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<v Speaker 2>If something's too secure it becomes a pain to use.

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<v Speaker 2>People will find ways around it, which often makes things

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<v Speaker 2>even less secure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like those passwords that are supposed to be

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<v Speaker 1>super strong, right, but they're so complex you end up

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<v Speaker 1>writing them down on a sticky note exactly defeats the

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<v Speaker 1>whole purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>So as we're all, you know, living more and more online,

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<v Speaker 2>we got to be smart about the tech side and

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<v Speaker 2>the human side. It's on all of us.

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<v Speaker 1>This deep dive has been awesome. I mean, we've covered

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<v Speaker 1>so much ancient ciphers too, like the latest threats.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating how it's all evolved. Yeah, photography and network security.

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<v Speaker 1>It's more than just like tech jargon. It affects how

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<v Speaker 1>we live online every day.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you see that. Yeah, and remember this is

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<v Speaker 2>just the beginning. Cryptography keeps changing, so stay curious, stay informed.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm definitely feeling more curious and a lot less intimidated

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<v Speaker 1>by all this stuff. Good thanks to this deep dive.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I get it now, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>what we can actually do to protect ourselves online.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what it's all about, giving people the knowledge to

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<v Speaker 2>be more secure and more proactive.

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<v Speaker 1>Well said, So as we wrap up this episode, we

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<v Speaker 1>want to leave you with that challenge, you know, designing

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<v Speaker 1>the unbreakable algorithm. What would your ideal system look like?

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<v Speaker 1>What kind of trade offs would you make, security versus usability?

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<v Speaker 1>Let us know and until next time, stay curious, stay safe,

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<v Speaker 1>and keep exploring.