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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every 48 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 49 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.520 infamous killers in true crime history true Murder with your host, 50 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:42.319 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good evening. 51 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:47.840 Murder in Suburbia features the stories of more than twenty 52 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:51.280 murder cases that have happened in the quiet streets of 53 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:56.039 Australia's suburbs and small towns. These stories show that the 54 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:00.199 most brutal and harrowing events can happen in any street 55 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.960 or neighborhood. Featuring contemporary cases as well as some shocking 56 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:09.520 historical murders, Murder in Suburbia proves you should never say 57 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:13.000 it could never happen here. The book that we're featuring 58 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:17.919 this evening is Murder in Suburbia, Disturbing stories from Australia's 59 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:22.000 dark heart, with my special guests all the way from Australia, 60 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:27.520 Emily Webb, journalist and author Emily Webb. And if I 61 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.000 could have helped out in that area, but we're on 62 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.520 here now and we have the available time. I have 63 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:36.039 all kinds of time here. We have the flexibility to 64 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.280 go up to a couple hours, so we're going to 65 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.800 have it at least an hour. If you can stay 66 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.199 with us to be able to talk about this incredible book. 67 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:49.360 Now I had already introduced the book, and I in 68 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:52.039 terms of the little you know, very brief synopsis you 69 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:57.080 have about the book, I want to just ask the 70 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:02.680 question if you could give our audience your personal background 71 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:06.639 as a journalist and author, just how you came to 72 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.879 your background to be able to have access to some 73 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:13.759 of these stories before we get into the selection of 74 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.560 stories for this book, and so tell us a little 75 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:21.279 bit about your journalistic background for our audience. 76 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:23.319 Please, no problem. 77 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.079 I'm actually speaking to you from a little room at 78 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:31.120 my workplace at the moment. I worked for a newspaper 79 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:35.360 group called Leader Community Newspapers and that's the Melbourne local 80 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:37.959 newspaper of news Corps Australia. 81 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.639 So I've been doing. 82 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:41.800 This for about six years. 83 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.120 But I've been a journalist for a lot of years. 84 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:46.680 I think I did my cadectu You've be in nineteen 85 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.160 ninety nine on various publications, magazines, and then I lived 86 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:52.920 in London for a long time and did a bit 87 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.240 of freelance and was a teacher for a while. But 88 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.360 my husband, actually I met my husband he was a 89 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.839 police officer in the city of Life and police I've 90 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:04.759 sort of got all these you know, little threads interweaving 91 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:09.560 with crime. But for the past nearly seven years, I 92 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:15.360 have been working on various mastheads in Melbourne doing community 93 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.399 you you know, council meetings, court stories, all that stuff. 94 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.800 But I've always been really interested in crime. And you know, 95 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:30.319 like this book was inspired really by an unsolved murder 96 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.800 thirty years ago and the woman was murdered in sort 97 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:36.920 of the general area where I now live, and she 98 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.959 actually worked at the workplace I worked out thirty years ago. 99 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.920 So I kind of started to dig a bit deep 100 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:47.920 doing a bit of a an online a multimedia project 101 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.399 about unsolved crimes in Melbourne's out of East, which is 102 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.319 where I live. And yeah, it's stemmed from there. 103 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:59.079 Now, what I found fascinating is that, and I said 104 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:03.199 to the audience before we connected, is that there are, 105 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.519 if I'm not correct, twenty eight murder stories in this 106 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.199 entire book. Am I correct? 107 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:08.680 Yeah? 108 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.720 There are? There was quite a lot. Actually, I mean 109 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.000 some are longer than others, some historical. So I was going, 110 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:18.319 but you know, on newspaper archives, but for several actually 111 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:24.600 went and interviewed families, like victims, families and police officers. 112 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:29.480 Now you've you've chosen to focus on murders that happened 113 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:34.360 in Australia's suburbia, and so we're talking about and we're 114 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:36.399 going to we'll only be able to go through a 115 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.439 few stories, but they'll really demonstrate how like I said 116 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:47.680 to the audience beforehand, is that incredible stories, incredible horrific 117 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.759 nature of these murders that you've picked too. So this 118 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:56.639 is incredible. So tell us about why you picked murders 119 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.079 that would be in again, the suburban area Australia. But 120 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:04.199 we're talking about one of these stories where there's three 121 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:08.319 thousand people, So tell us what I mean. In America, 122 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.720 a suburb is different than what we find in Canada, 123 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:13.839 where we're in the middle of nowhere and there's not 124 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.600 much of what you would call suburbia compared to America. 125 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.759 So please explain what suburbia means and why you've decided 126 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:26.160 to focus on suburbia in terms of all this collection 127 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.000 of horrific stories and murders. 128 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:31.959 Sure seeing well, I mean, I live in the suburbs, 129 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.399 I grew up in the suburbs, and I've never been 130 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:37.279 to Canada, but I think Australia and Canada shares a 131 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.959 lot in common so really suburbs. You know, so I 132 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:43.959 live in Melbourne. You know the city of Melbourne, which 133 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.360 is we have states and territories in Australia, so Melbourne 134 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:50.839 is the capital city of Victoria. And then you know 135 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:53.480 I was in Melbourne. You've got the suburban sprawl, so 136 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.920 it's you know, little suburbs and it's you know, from 137 00:07:57.959 --> 00:07:59.079 working class suburbs. 138 00:07:59.199 --> 00:07:59.800 More excellent. 139 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.439 Some of the stories I did feature well, we're probably 140 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.519 more country towns, so we call you know, in Australia, 141 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:08.519 we've got a lot of country towns and obviously we 142 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.199 have the outback, but suburbs. For me, I was fascinated 143 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:17.240 because you know, I work for a community newspaper. You know, 144 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:19.800 group I live in the suburbs. You know, I'm raising 145 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.240 my family in the suburbs. I grew up in the suburbs, 146 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.800 and I think, you know, it was sort of that 147 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.879 bit of a cliche. You know, behind the bricks in 148 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.879 your house, there can be some of the most horrific 149 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.679 things happening, and certainly someone in my research you discover 150 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:38.000 that that is true. 151 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.799 Right now, we're not going to be able to cover 152 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.639 all of these stories, but like I alluded to that, 153 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.720 we will be able to discuss quite a few a 154 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.279 few of these stories and that will illustrate just kind 155 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.519 of what kind of collection that we're dealing with here, 156 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:57.879 very varied. We're covering all aspects of murder, all kinds 157 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:03.120 of murders and trial. So let's go with the very 158 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.679 first story because I think it really sets the stage 159 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:10.200 for what people can expect from this book, and that's 160 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:15.320 the Burwood triple murders with Ashley Colston so in July 161 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:20.600 nineteen ninety two and with student teachers and Henstridge and 162 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:25.559 Karen Smeared and so tell us about where these young 163 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:30.919 ladies were. They were student teachers near a university. They 164 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.960 had another roommate, So set the stage for us. Tell 165 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.600 us where the Summit Road is, what kind of house 166 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:41.399 they shared, what kind of relationship they had, and before 167 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.080 we talk about the evening itself, just tell us that 168 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:48.360 what these ladies were like and their living arrangement. Tell 169 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.320 us a little bit about the Summit Road and the 170 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:51.360 house that they all shared. 171 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:58.879 Sure, well, this is a very notorious crime in Australian history. 172 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.720 So this murder Burwood is the suburb where these uh, 173 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.240 these murders happened, and actually from where I'm sitting right 174 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.120 now talking to you, Burwood's probably about you know, five 175 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:15.200 kilometers away. So Burwood is a very established Melbourne suburb, 176 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:20.360 you know, pretty nondescript. You know, a lot of you know, 177 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.879 brick vinner houses. There's a big university, Deacon University, which 178 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.120 is where the girls were student teachers. So it's it's 179 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.440 just it's a non descript suburb really, and and in 180 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:36.519 here and where they were actually girls from the country, 181 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.679 so they come up from a country town to come 182 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:41.080 to Melbourne to study their teaching. And they were living 183 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.320 in a you know, in a house in Summit Road, 184 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.279 which is a again you know, nothing out of the 185 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:50.879 ordinary about that road. And the third victims, Pete Schat 186 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:52.799 he was actually one of the girl's brother in laws 187 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:54.960 and he was up visiting for the night. He had 188 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:58.440 cause to be traveling to Melbourne and he stayed overnight there. 189 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.000 So that's basically the scene. So it was nineteen ninety two. 190 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:05.399 I remember this crime very well. I was in I 191 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.720 was still in high school in Yuten, I think it was. 192 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.679 It was a massive, massive news story and yeah, still 193 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.159 one of the most notorious crimes in Australian history. 194 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:21.240 Now, on this July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety two, these 195 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.200 young girls, one of the girls was Karen, and so 196 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.559 her mother was Jeanette, was down the street or very 197 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.399 close by, and Karen was actually moving out of the flat, 198 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:42.080 out of the house itself. They had advertised for another 199 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:46.320 tenant to move in. Tell us about his mother. Her 200 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.240 mother was down the street. She could have left that 201 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:52.639 night to head back, but she decided to hang around. 202 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.480 Tell us a little bit about this scenario. 203 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.279 Sure, Well, basically Karen was due to move back her 204 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:04.279 hometown of Hamilton the next day, so her mum was 205 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.600 down staying with some friends down the road. So you know, 206 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.080 she was going back. So Hamilton's a small country town. 207 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.399 She's presumably going back to, you know, maybe get a 208 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:19.399 job and teaching, and so yeah, they could have I 209 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.200 guess they could have gone home the night before, but 210 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.399 the girls had been advertising for a roommate and they 211 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.000 just wanted to get all that sorted before all that happened, 212 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.440 so you know, obviously to share the rents and expenses. 213 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:36.840 So basically it was the next day that well, Karen's 214 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:41.159 mother discovered the three you know, the three young young 215 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.159 people dead in the house when she went to go 216 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.360 and pick up Kieran. She was waiting for Kieran to 217 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.120 meet her at the family friend's house in the same street. 218 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:53.600 But when she didn't arrive, her mother went and looked, 219 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.759 and you know, there was no answer when she knocked 220 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:57.960 on the door, so she had to climb through a 221 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.480 window and she found the unimaginable horror. 222 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:10.120 Now what what did she find inside? This is not 223 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:13.159 a squeamish audience. This is, like you say, one of 224 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:17.480 the most sorious crimes. What does she what what has 225 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:18.720 been done to these people? 226 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:26.120 Well, basically, yeah, it's a shocking crime. They were shot 227 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.639 in they were all shot in the head and they 228 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:32.759 were you know, their hands tied as cable times and 229 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.960 yeah they were they were executed, basically cold blooded execution. 230 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.279 Right, they were bound and they were gagged and they 231 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.519 had bags over their heads and they were shot in 232 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:48.919 the execution style. Like you say, yes, yes, Now obviously 233 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:53.320 the police are involved. What does the police when they 234 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.480 look at the crime scene, what do they conclude or 235 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.840 can they make any conclusions from the crime scene itself? 236 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:01.360 But what deductions did they make? 237 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:08.000 Well, basically so the victimology I guess as Karen and 238 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.440 Peter was that well, there was no links to anything 239 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.679 you know, dodgy. They were just you know, young people, 240 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.440 clean living people. There was no reason to think they 241 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.519 had any involvement with anything, so I guess they could 242 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.559 have scrubbed you know, that kind of thing off. But 243 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.840 when the police came into the house, there was nothing 244 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:30.480 really stolen obvious, you know, robbery was a motive, it 245 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:35.720 was The police were really baffled. You know, the three 246 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.960 victims had no criminal records. There was a couple of 247 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.720 hundred dollars taken from the house that the police didn't 248 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.960 believe that was primary motivation for the crime. It was 249 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:50.080 almost like an afterthoughts. So basically they were really stumped. 250 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:53.679 They were struggling, you know, and it was massive news. 251 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:56.200 I mean, you know, on the front pages of the papers. 252 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:56.879 It were shocking. 253 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.960 Was there the evidence or did they have any speculation 254 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.639 that it might have had something to do with some 255 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:10.159 kind of infatuation over one or two both of the women. 256 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:17.639 Look, that was touted as you know, a theory like 257 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.840 possibly that you know, someone may have been you know, 258 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.480 stalking one of the girls, but they really couldn't find 259 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.679 any evidence of that. Sound the trap, but that certainly 260 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.200 was a theory that was investigated. 261 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.080 Now, what was the reaction in the community, and what 262 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.240 was the reaction and how was it played in the media. 263 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.000 Well, it was you know, it was front page news, 264 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.080 as you can imagine, So the photos of the three 265 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:51.440 victims were on the front page. People were scared because 266 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.480 this was you know, the eastern suburbs are kind of pretty, 267 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.639 you know, and back in the nineties even it was 268 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.759 pretty sedate, kind of you know, not really a rough 269 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:05.080 suburb or anything. Nothing to you know, indicate that you'd 270 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:08.159 have any activity like that. It was it was just 271 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.200 completely battling, i think flightening, and that there seemed to 272 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.039 be no link you know, from what they could see 273 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:18.000 between the you know, the killer and the victims. There 274 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:20.320 was no reason why they were targeted. So it was 275 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.559 you know, looking like you know, the police's worked nightmare, 276 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:30.720 which was a completely random attack. Well yeah, random attack really, 277 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:32.559 but they had to work out how did it come 278 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:33.840 to be that they were attacked. 279 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.600 Now they had no leads, and how did they proceed 280 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:44.600 there you speaking in your book about four hundred people 281 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:49.000 being questioned, But is there any appeal to the public. 282 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:53.480 Yeah, there was lots of appeals to the public. You know, 283 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.519 there was a lot of press conferences. I mean, the 284 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:01.399 families were completely devastated on sort of trying to So 285 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:03.759 forgive me if I get a few things mixed up, 286 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.839 because it's a while since I researched and wrote it. 287 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.200 But I knew it was a crime that I absolutely knew. 288 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.799 When I wrote this book. I thought, right, I've got 289 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.039 to write about this, and it has been written about before, 290 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.519 but I think a New Tube Crime audience wouldn't have 291 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:21.799 known about it. Basically, they were just, you know, so 292 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.960 we're just going along trying to work out what was happening. 293 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:32.079 But it was actually when there was an attack. Five 294 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.599 weeks after the murders, there was an attack on a 295 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.960 couple who were in a park in Melbourne, in central Melbourne, 296 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000 in the city and they were walking back to their 297 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.839 car from a function nade attendage, and they were basically 298 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.559 set upon by a man in balaclava and was pointing 299 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.680 his gun at them, and you know, they were trying 300 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.039 to you know, get rid of this guard, offering him money. 301 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.400 He grabbed the money, but you know what happened next 302 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.920 was really really frightening. He forced them from their car 303 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.559 at gunpoint, and he directed them to a secluded area 304 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.640 of the park and he asked the woman to lie 305 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.559 face down, and he started to take out some cable ties. 306 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.880 So there's a link. This was one of the things 307 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.160 that you know, was a link with the other murder. 308 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:25.440 And he started to bind her hands. And the husband, 309 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:27.480 who in a sort of active you know, I don't 310 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:29.200 know what would go through her mind at this gate, 311 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.119 he just decided to fight, you know, he fight and 312 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:37.680 he he sort of grabbed the offender, yelled at his 313 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:39.799 wife to run, and she ran and ran, and she 314 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:43.559 happened to two security guards who were around in the 315 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:46.119 gardens near there. There's some memorials and there was the 316 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.640 hospital at the time, and they were there and they 317 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.920 she's screaming at them. You know, he's got a gun. 318 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.200 You know, he's trying to shoot us. And so these 319 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:59.119 security guards approached and they were shot out. Actually they survived, 320 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.720 and that tackled that tackled this offended to the ground 321 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.519 and the police arrived and basically that that's where it 322 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.920 went on from there. That started to discover, you know, 323 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.440 that they may may have had they may have the 324 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:19.680 offender for the berwidrip killings. Blark Wakes perform. 325 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.240 Yeah, with the with the heads up, well not the 326 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:25.119 heads up, the security guard really doing a really brave 327 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:30.400 and courageous job of subduing this guy from Richard realizing 328 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.319 that once this killer had well at least he believed 329 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.559 that this assailant once he had his wife, and and 330 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.920 you vividly described this too, where he tells the woman 331 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:42.839 to get on the ground. He even kicks her even 332 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.640 though she's complying. He puts the zip ties on, and 333 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:50.200 then Richard says he believed at that moment that he 334 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.000 was going to be killed, him and his wife. So 335 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.640 then he saw that that Colston put down the gun 336 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.720 for a moment, and he leaped at his opportunity, and 337 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.920 then eventually he ran as well with his wife. And 338 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:07.480 then what was interesting too is that when police found him, 339 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:12.559 he had an entire kit. And if you if you like, 340 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.200 I can tell you what's in that kit, but. 341 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.279 Fresh on memory, I know it was. It was a 342 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.599 terrible key. It's the kind of kit that would be 343 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:21.279 you whor it's not me. 344 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.680 Well, what's really key to the evidence at trial, I mean, 345 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.519 because they still have to have some really strong evidence, 346 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.200 is that he had a homemade silencer made out of 347 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.359 an oil filter. He had a knife, he had a bellaclava, 348 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:41.279 he had high voltage twenty two twenty two caliber cartridges. 349 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:48.720 He had handcuffs, he had thumb thumb ties. Thumbcuffs, yeah, 350 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:54.559 thumb cuffs, zip sizes and really what cooked his goose 351 00:20:54.680 --> 00:21:00.440 was the ballistics matched. The bullets were matched. And but 352 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:02.240 you know that's not the end of the story. 353 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.920 So no, it's a quite an Excelstor story. 354 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.759 Really, So this Colston in your research, who is this 355 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.640 Colston guy? Because you talk about that he is not 356 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.240 an unknown person because in nineteen eighty eight he had 357 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:18.839 he was Captain Bathtub. 358 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:25.680 Yeah, well this is this is a really really strange thing. Basically, 359 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:27.720 so in nineteen eighty eight, so that was a year 360 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.440 of astray by Contenary, it was a pretty big year. 361 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:36.880 He tried to sail around across the Tasman to New 362 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.480 Zealand in like basically a little yacht it was almost 363 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.160 like a buff tub and he attempted this quite extraordinary feast. 364 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.119 I mean, he did pretty well and he was featured 365 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:53.559 in you know, the media, and he actually sailed the 366 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.279 boat from Brisbane which is up in Queensland sort of 367 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.480 further up to New Zealand, and he was dubbed Captain 368 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.319 Bathtub for his efforts. So it was quite yeah, it 369 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:09.519 was quite bizarre. So this guy had no on the 370 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:13.359 face of it, you know, he was okay. But the 371 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.400 thing is, when you look a bit further back into 372 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.160 his history, he actually was quite troubled from from a 373 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.759 very early age and I've covered that in the book. 374 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:26.119 He basically when he was fourteen, which would have been 375 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.680 in the early nineteen seventies, he actually had to stalk 376 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:34.519 He lived in a small country town and interestingly, my 377 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.960 auntie grew up not far from there and she actually 378 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:40.680 knew the family. She said, oh, you know, did you 379 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:43.000 know that I knew them? It was quite because you know, 380 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:49.880 small country town community. And so basically he went to 381 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.799 a very small, small school and there were two young 382 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.960 teachers there and he was stalking them, and he actually 383 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.640 abducted both of them at gunpoint age fourteen, and he 384 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:07.400 forced them to drive from Victoria into New South Wales, 385 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.359 which is, you know, another state. So if you imagine 386 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.319 Sydney is in New South Wales and basically, you know, 387 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.000 he stopped to get some food at at a roadhouse 388 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.640 as we call them, I'm not sure what you call 389 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.960 them in Canada, but these get women screaming for help 390 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.119 in a truckee. A truck driver rescued them. So basically 391 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.920 he you know, he got found guilty in court of 392 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.680 certain things, but because he was a juvenile, he got 393 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.319 three months at a boys home. So look in I've 394 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:39.079 heard I listened to your show a lot, and I 395 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.200 know in Canada sentencing is probably very similar to Australia. 396 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.000 It's not, you know, as hard call as in America. 397 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.000 But yeah, so basically he got released. 398 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.400 And kind of moved back home. 399 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.480 And you know, I don't think rehabilitation was that good 400 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:57.359 back then, So yeah, that's that's on he went. So yeah, 401 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:00.640