Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Astrology with Alice. I'm
here with my good friend and fellow astrologer, Michelle Grodnick.
She's an LA based astrologer and coach, and she also
has her astrology business called Fourth House Astrology, which I
want to talk about like why you chose that name
in a second. But welcome Michelle, Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so happy here.
Speaker 1: For everyone that doesn't know, what is your sun moon
and rising?
Speaker 2: So my son is Capricorn, but I have six planets
a Capricorn, yeah, like super Capricorn son, and then I
have a Gemini moon and Vigo rising.
Speaker 1: Where also is your mercury Capricorn? Yeah, because that's another
question I've been wanting to ask Gus. Where's the chart ruler?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's exactly conjunct Venus as well.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, in Capricorn. That's crazy. Yeah. I
wanted to talk a little bit about how we met
because I love making new astrologer friends and I feel
like it's taken me. Like I've been in this profession
for eight years now, and when I first started out,
I had like one astrologer friend. So I love that
we've connected in recent months. You literally just cold emailed
me one day and you were like, hey, I'm in
town because you you grew up in New York, right, Yeah,
So I grew.
Speaker 2: Up here in New York and I moved to LA
during my sad and return so when I was coming
back to New York, I was like, Okay, Like, how
can I make this a little bit more fun?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I just like, I've always loved yourself, I've always
loved your content, and you're literally the only astrology podcast
I listened to. Okay love Okay, it's so good. And yeah,
I just emailed you and you immediately responded so nice.
Speaker 1: And we went out to coffee and it's like, I
feel like when you connect with someone, it's very obvious.
And we talked for three hours. Literally. It was such
a nice conversation. That's what I love about Gemini Moon
and Gemini placements. It's just easy to talk to. Yeah,
it's the best. So why don't you give some background
on like how you first got into astrology. Is this
something you've always been into or did it come about randomly?
Speaker 2: It was literally the most random thing. I'm not kidding,
Like I had started my Saturn return and I was
feeling and my Saturn's in the sixth house.
Speaker 1: So Saturn Aquarius. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I was, you know, frustrated with work in
the corporate world, and I'm just you know, like when
you're just like at your desk, like, oh my god,
what should I do?
Speaker 1: Should I just be an astrologer?
Speaker 2: You know? And it's just like poofed into my head
and like maybe I like had some astrology content on
my Instagram, like maybe i'd co star, but nothing like
more than your average girl. Yeah, And I just started
searching and then I found this great astrologery who had
these classes and I was like.
Speaker 1: Let me just do it.
Speaker 2: And I was just like immediately obsessed.
Speaker 1: What astrologer was this that you took?
Speaker 2: Coss those from Rose Theodora.
Speaker 1: Okay, I haven't heard of her. Yeah, she's cool.
Speaker 2: She's American, but she's based in Madrid and she has
these really great just like I just learned the fundamentals,
you know what I mean. Like I didn't know I
didn't even know I was in my Saturn return when
this happened. And she was the one who told me that.
I was like, wait what And then she told me
and like, looking back, it's kind of crazy because there
was a solar eclipse right on my natal Jupiter at
that time.
Speaker 1: Where's is your Jupiter Scorpio?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Scorpio and so it was like both my
sat in return and like the hit of the solar
eclips right just really so this was twenty twenty two, yeah,
because clipses are in Scorpio in twenty twenty two and yes,
and well we'll get into that, but yeah, that you
met all of the crazy transits.
Speaker 1: But how so when you first got into it, you
were taking classes and then did I don't know, how
did your interests evolve over time as an astrologer. Yeah,
so I went.
Speaker 2: Once I learned the fundamentals, I started to just like
dive in do so much research. And it was interesting
because I so I lost my mom when I was eighteen.
Oh my god, I didn't know those Yeah, And when
I was learning astrology, I was like, I wonder if
I could look at my mom's chart, and I found
her birth certificate. I got the time and I saw
it and I was like, oh my god, like there
were so many connections between my chart and hers. Yeah,
and I was like, that was the first time I
knew that astrology could be like genetic and passed down,
like my Jupiter was exactly on her ascendant.
Speaker 1: I love my part of fortune.
Speaker 2: So the midpoint between the sun moon and rising was
exactly to the degree on my mom's moon.
Speaker 1: Whoa.
Speaker 2: I was just like what is this like? So I
got really into family astrology. So I read like Aaron
Sullivan's book Astrology of Family Dynamics Planetary Threads with Lynn Bell,
and that's like really who I learned from, like more deeply,
and so I was really into the family dynamics. And
then that's kind of where like fourth hass astrology comes from, right,
because that's like ruling the family. And then as I
was doing more kind of research into family astrology and
things like that, I was finding things like family constellations
and then internal family systems, which is parts work more
of like that psychological approach, and I was like, oh,
I was like this is interesting because internal family systems
is all about how we are made up of many parts, right,
And when I learned about that, I was like, wait,
I have many parts. I have many planets, And I
was like, the planets are like parts. So I did
like this six month course with the Center for Self Leadership,
which is you know, ifs they're like school, and I
went deeply into that, and then I started really getting
into like this psychological approach with astrology and being able
to kind of like dig deep, learn about yourself, learn
about your patterns. And that's why I got a coaching
certification because I was like, there's like and being a
Kajulian Capricorn, how can I make this like useful for people?
How can I make this, you know, help people better
them with this incredible art and tool and symbolic language.
So that's kind of been the progression so far.
Speaker 1: I like the difference between our practices like yours with
the theme of Fourth House of astrology, like digging into
the past and like how you were raised and where
you come from. Do you get into like ancestry stuff too,
beyond just your like immediate parents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so a lot of the time if
there are strong Fourth House ties, I'll be like, okay,
like we need to learn more about your ancestry or like,
was there a certain way that you know, your father's
side really felt toward the women in the family, and
like these dynamics come up that people never really thought
about super deeply because it's just like, oh, yeah, that's
just like where I come from or like our culture
or whatever. But like these stories shape how we behave
so especially if there's like strong Fourth House placements or
even any outer planets impacting the moon, that's when like
really start to talk about like ancestry and family and
all that.
Speaker 1: Because family in my chart is the most difficult part
of my chart because I have my Pluto in the
fourth House and I also have the fourth House ruler
Mars Retrograde in the twelve. So like that's like an
area I will become interested over time, like as I
start my own family and things like that. I'm sure,
but just like even before I got into astrology, family's
usually something like to avoid because it's it wasn't like
comfortable growing up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And how do you feel like once you face it,
do you feel like you're able to like really open
up your life in new ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like healing and setting boundaries and family and not
like engaging in the same patterns as like how I
grow the most.
Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like it's like acknowledging all these stories
and all of the pain and like being able to
unblock yourself through that because again like very capricorn over here,
like how can we achieve your highest self? How can
you achieve your goals? And to me, like, it's really
only through unblocking the stories, unblocking you know, those insecurities
that come from the family that that really help us
grow into the people we want to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when someone comes to you for reading, is
like the first thing you're zooming in on in a
chart like that fourth house or there are other elements.
Speaker 2: Honestly, the moon, the moon, ok one, like any aspects
to the moon. And if I see a Saturn moon situation,
a urinous moon, a neptune moon, I'm like, Okay, here
we go. That's really what I look at. And then
I really look at if Saturn is aspecting anything prominently.
That's really important for me just because I feel like
that's where a lot of our blocks come from. You
have definitely a Saturn and that could be like our
critic and you know so or that heaviness. So I
do often look and see, okay, Saturn chatting with any
of the other planets.
Speaker 1: You being so caborn heavy. I'm so aquarious heavy in
my chart, like Saturn is our guy. Yes, yeah, we
love them.
Speaker 2: No, Saturn is literally our higher power, yeah no, but
I mean there's definitely a mixed relationship with Saturn. Yeah.
In general, I feel like it does. It holds people
back sometimes, don't you think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like even I have Saturn and Aquarius, it's not
like conjunct my son or Mercury. But even just being
in the same sign as like my chart ruler, which
is my son and Mercury. As a child was very shy,
like very self conscious, hard to speak up and like
be my full self. So it's interesting seeing like the
evolution of Saturn as you get older one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And I feel like the way that it changes post
Saturn return is crazy, like because there are so many
gifts that come with Saturn, but they take time, and
a lot of the time they first manifest as like
tough lessons and then you really grow into it and
learn from those lessons and like, actually see like the
power that comes from Saturn.
Speaker 1: How did your Saturn return go as a naturally Saturnian person.
Speaker 2: I feel like mine was easier for that reason, Like,
and because you know it's in Aquarius, like in it's
a mistyle and you know, It really was pretty expansive
for me, Like I moved to LA, I met my husband,
I found astrology, but at the same time I was
super frustrated, you know, in my corporate job actually stopped
being in neat because it was in my sixth house. Yeah,
so there were these these things that came up, but
it wasn't as tough as those who had Saturn and Pisces,
which I think they really had it rough. Yeah, Like
mine was more productive in that way too, one hundred percent.
Like I also met my husband, wrote my first book,
Like things like I wanted to have happened for a
while finally got solidified. Yes, totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like I wanted to talk about the
pivot of when you decided to take astrology more seriously,
like you went through this intense learning period in your
Saturn return, which was started twenty twenty one but really
picked up twenty twenty two, like we talked about. Yeah,
then you mentioned to me, which I thought was so cool,
you went to do a short astrology course at Oxford
University in the UK. Yeah. Yeah, how I had found
that like same program when you brought it up, I
was like, wait, I follow them on Instagram. I had
thought about doing it, but I never found the time. Yeah,
is that how you found them? On Instagram?
Speaker 2: Literally on Instagram? I follow the Faculty School of Astrology
and they're the ones who host the course at Oxford,
and I saw it on my Instagram and I was like,
I think I'm just going to sign up for this.
I love that, Yeah, because it was like after I
had left my corporate tech job and to your point,
like it took me a long time to find astrology community, astrology.
Speaker 1: Friends, and I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I was like, I have to go all the way
to England to do that, even though I live in
Los Angeles, which is like arguably the astrology capital. But
I was like, let me just go. And it was
really incredible. There were people there from like I think
over thirty differents.
Speaker 1: Whoa how many people total?
Speaker 2: Definitely over one hundred, Like there weren't I'm really boud
at spatial awareness like that, but I think it was
like over one hundred. And there were just super diverse
age wise.
Speaker 1: From all over the world.
Speaker 2: And just like astrologers who had either part time practices
are full time practices or they're just getting into it.
But it was a really amazing way to open up
my eyes to like the world of astrology and how
like vast this practice really is and how prominent it
is around the globe.
Speaker 1: How many weeks was this course?
Speaker 2: So it was one week and we lived in the dorms.
The dogs were so beautiful, Like I felt like I
was in Harry Potter and we're like literally just learning
about astrology, and like this is literally wizardery, like as
close as I can get. So like you checked in
first day and then it's like you wake up the
next morning it's like all day courses in astrology type
of thing. Yeah, you're literally just taking classes from like
the best astrologers in the world. Like I mean, I,
you know, learned from Darby Costello, who's like someone who
I really respect. Laurence Hillman was an incredible teacher at
at Oxford. His classes were like particularly interesting for me
because his approach is very archetypal, so very similar to
like ifs and parts work. He like takes every planet
and gives it an archetype and this really helps us
like understand, Okay, what archetypes am I really leading with?
Which ones do I kind of hide? And I loved
his approach. He's actually kind of like an astrology nepo baby,
which is kind of cool. Like his dad was James
Hillman and who really founded.
Speaker 1: Like archetypal psychology.
Speaker 2: Cool, so it was really cool and to be able.
There was a lot of psychological astrology going on, which
was my jam.
Speaker 1: So that was like the main theme across all the
astrologers teaching.
Speaker 2: I would say, like there was not all of them,
Like there were definitely like more traditional astrologers who were
like even like medieval classes I took, like it was
cool to take a different array. But the ones I
kind of gravitated more toward were the psychological what were.
Speaker 1: Like specific names of the courses, like did you get
like a whole list and you could select, Okay, I
want to take this one this day type of thing.
Speaker 2: They were like the most like the hardest decisions I've
had to make, because it's like, how am I supposed
to choose between like this psychological astrology class and this
like relationship astrology class all about mercury, or like this
class on aspects versus like this deep dive on chiron,
like because they would be at the same time and
I'd really have to choose, and sometimes I would like
run between. Like I literally felt like Hermione, you know
how she would like take two lass as I was,
and like clone herself.
Speaker 1: It was that was the vibe.
Speaker 2: So it was just like a lot of really interesting
topics and really incredible astrologers.
Speaker 1: That's how I felt at Norwalk, which is like a
shortened version of this. Have you been to like those
astrology conferences like Norwalk? But I think I'm going to
go to Iraqis We talked about this, Yeah, yeah, I
think I don't think I can go. I really want
to know, but I hold in so many directions because
it was like all of these classes and you could
only take one, or you could only take two or
three a day, but there were like ten you want
to take, it's impossible. And I found going to like
some like I'm sure you felt this going to Oxford.
I felt this going to Norwalk. I was introduced to
different fields of astrology I never would have uncovered before,
Like fertility astrology was a huge one. I did, oh my.
Speaker 2: God, I need to learn about that.
Speaker 1: Judith Hill taught those. And then I also like found
myself drawn to like health astrology workshops found really like
interesting techniques for like the relationship between the sun and
Venus sun in Mars and compatibility like very niche like
things on relationships or health. It was so cool.
Speaker 2: It is so cool where you really are able to
dive deep and like as someone so I have a
Gemini moon in the ninth house, so like super just
like curious, like give me more information.
Speaker 1: I need to know everything. Yeah. And you so you're
you post across a lot of social media platforms and
you kind of blew up on TikTok for posting about
your experience at this Oxford Astrology week long course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like Baby's first viral video.
Speaker 1: It was like in Oxford, which was really.
Speaker 2: Cool and I think like it just goes to show
how many people do want more, you know, astrology education
and like to be at a place like Oxford with
the faculty school and all these incredible teachers. I think
people were really interested in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: The video was about this insight from a class I
took with an astrologer named Gloria Rocca who it was
about aspects and the video was like when you have
two planets that are conjunct, it's like coffee and milk.
It's like once you put the milk in the coffee,
you can't take it out, you know. So I often
feel like that as someone who has a few exact
conjunct planets, like it's hard to decipher between them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, like with your Capricorn stellium, do you because
I always say people I get this question a lot,
like what does it mean that I have a stellium?
Like does it just mean that one house is where
my full focus is? And I'm always like you kind
of have to break it apart and look at like
what planets were all these other houses in your chart?
And how are they bringing those topics of those other
houses to where the stellium is placed? Yes, how do you?
Because you have like sun conjunct Mars exactly.
Speaker 2: I have yeah, Mars Kasimi, Oh my god, which is
cool and Capricorn. So that's like something that is great
because I actually don't have any fire in my chart,
so to have Mars Kazimi it does help me like
advocate for myself and bring more confidence into my chart,
Like when I am kind of lacking in that element
of fire, Mars is like really bringing it for me
with my son.
Speaker 1: So that actually like helps a lot.
Speaker 2: I think, like, yeah, you really to zoom in on
those stelliums and be like, okay, like what's going on here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have venus also.
Speaker 2: Exactly conjunct mercury.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there's like Sun in Mars and then a
little bit further away it's Venus mercury.
Speaker 2: Yeah, opposite, it's like Venus mercury as zero okay, and
then yes, Sun and Mars at five. Oh they're all
very close though, And then really yeah, okay, I love
the Venus mercury. I feel like that's why you're good
with coming up with quick social media content. Oh my god,
thank you. You know that actually makes a lot of sense.
I always like think about my Gemini mom with that.
But you're so right, like Venus mercury is really helpful
with that, helpful with writing, like helpful with just yeah,
those quick hits.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, in terms of social media, like
it really is interesting because with astrology, like ideally you're like,
you know, talking about every single aspect of an astrological topic,
and you're talking for like ten minutes, and you know,
like I recently did a workshop and it was like
an hour long like that to me felt like Okay,
I got it all out, but I'm like, okay, I'm on, TikTok,
I gotta go one minute, like let's go. So it
really is like tough to really cook things down like
that when this is such like a symbolic like nuanced language.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the further I got into being
an astrologer, the less the short form social media content
made sense, yes, because it was just like people would
misunderstand what I was trying to say, and it's like
I need to explain this in a podcast. Yeah, this
whole sub stock article of workshop, Like you're really I'm
not scratching the surface enough in a thirty second reel
one hundred percent. And I think like the best thing
about doing social media as an astrologer is when those
people book readings and I get to actually go into
their chart, go into the nuances for a whole hour,
and then we get to like work together on a
longer basis, and like that's when you really reap the
benefits of astrology and it becomes less confusing because there
are so many different messages out there and different points
of view, and it's just a matter of like finding
your astrologer who you really jive with and just kind
of going deep there. I always find I get clients
that share chart placements with me because I'm Leo Aquarius.
Pisces is my big three, and it's like I'm always
getting a lot of like Leo Aquarius placements and yeah,
ICE's Virgo to like your Virgo rising. My ices is
so drawn to the Virgo. Yeah, totally right.
Speaker 2: I'm Virgo rising and my husband is a Pisces, so
that makes sense Offices attraction.
Speaker 1: Seriously. Wait, so going back to you had that video
at Oxford Go viral. Yes, you were mentioning to me
how that was a turning point mentally for you, with like,
oh I could do this astrology thing as a full
time job because you weren't doing it full time before
this past summer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, this was the situation. So I left
my corporate job and I was like, let me pursue astrology.
And it was really interesting because I left my corporate
job as Jupiter was approaching. I med heaven, I'm like,
all right, this fails like a good time, And I
ended up meeting a founder of an astrology dating app
like two weeks later. So I ended up working at
that startup for a long time, which was great because
I was like, oh, I was there head of astrology,
like I was doing all this astrological work, but I
wasn't necessarily focusing on my own practice during that time.
And then comes the springtime of twenty twenty five, which
is when Saturn and Neptune came together for the first
time in aries, and that was squaring my Mercury and Venus.
So oh my god, I'm kind of like spinning out.
I'm like, what am I doing, you know, be an
entrepreneur so hard.
Speaker 1: I'm a Capricorn.
Speaker 2: I'm like a great employee, Like I love having a boss,
you know what I mean, Like I love like structure,
and you know, it just felt like what's going on?
And I was like, maybe I just go back to
the corporate world. And at this point I had already
signed up for the Oxford program, thank god, because as
that was kind of going on, I was like in
the interview stages with this other corporate job, and literally
there was a new moon and Virgo. And this new
moon in Virgo is interesting because it came right before
a clip season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is when we had two new moons
in Virgo weirdly, so like double impact in the Virgo house.
Speaker 2: Yes, and as a Virgo rising, I was like watch
the space kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Huge life change, shifts in direction.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the nodes were exactly on my
ascendant descendant access to the degree.
Speaker 1: I love that you bring that up because out of
the whole nodal transit of a house, the month or
even like the few weeks it comes into direct contact
with an angle or a planet is usually the most impactful.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because you think it's like, oh, is
the lumination on my ascendant. It's like, yes, that's important,
but the nodes being there is a huge, huge impact point.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so there's this new moon in Virgo. Nodes were
exactly on my ascendant descendant. And that was the day
that video went viral. That was like the first time
I ever went you know, quote unquote viral online and
I got rejected from that corporate job and the same day.
Speaker 1: This was a major sign.
Speaker 2: It was a clear pull in one direction, right, it said.
And it's interesting because the south note was on my
Virgo assentate, so it was like, let go of this fear,
let go of the need to have everything figured out.
Right as Virgo loves to have the plan, It's like,
it is okay not to have a plan, and like
go toward more of these spiritual pursuits. Right with that
North node in Pisces, and that was a clear nod
from the universe. I just had an amazing week at
Oxford and beating all these astrologers and this video goes
viral and I get rejected from the corporate world and
I said, okay, I see you. I got it, And
that's when I decided to go for it. So pretty recently,
Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Also, just you're in us making its way into Gemini,
your tenth house, like now, it's only just beginning there.
I can't imagine what's to come for you in your career,
like all the changes because I became an astrologer full time.
When you're in a enter my tenth house, get out.
It first started to go in twenty eighteen. That was
when the initial injurs came up, and then when it
re entered in twenty nineteen after it's retrograde, that's when
I quit entirely and took this full time Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And that makes so much sense because yeah, we're you're
leoising them for arising.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like getting the eight years later. Yeah,
I get like a transit's a little ahead of you. Yeah.
But it was interesting because it's like I stayed in
astrologer that whole eight year period. Urinus was in the tenth,
but it was like the trajectory of that career and
what I was doing day to day changed so much
like every single year totally. And I find that that's
going to be the case for me a lot with
things changing, and I think I just need just really
opening myself up to change as a very earthy person.
Speaker 2: That's been like a big lesson for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you like, as part of your astrology business, I
want to talk about like how you structure your business
and like the many facets of your work that you have.
You give readings to people obviously and do like kind
of this like mentoring or coaching, like ongoing looking at
their chart. What else do you do as part of
your astrology business?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the astrology business, fourth house, astrology, one on
one readings, coaching, longer term support. I'm really focused on,
like Saturn return support right now, So like for people
who are going through their Saturn return and going through
these tough times, like being able to give them longer
term support, which has been amazing. And then I do
also work for this really interesting startup called Laura.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it's been really great having both of
these things as GEM and I'm at Heaven.
Speaker 1: I feel like I always had to have two things going. Yeah,
you have to have many different identities in your career.
Speaker 2: And it's hard because the Virgo rising is like stay
the course, you know, the Capricorn is like what's happening?
We had a plan, but I just, you know, I
gotta be doing a couple things at once. And Laura
is amazing. This is incredible women run New York based startup.
The former chief product officer of Hinge, Michelle Parsons, she
started this company and she had like a really life
changing experience with astrology, and you know, she's like, let's
bring this to more people, Let's make this more accessible.
And what's really amazing is that you know, they're starting
this kind of like self discovery app platform and it
hasn't you know, we haven't built it yet. It should
come toward the end of the summer. But really, I mean,
it's about being able to more deeply connect with yourself
and then the people who are closest to you in
your life. So right now we're just building our community
of people who are wont to do this work. We
have over one hundred thousand people on a wait list,
We have over ten thousand people in a discord who
are just You're talking about astrology all day, like it's amazing.
Speaker 1: So is this an app or a website you go
to and you get services from. Is it just astrologers
or all types of spiritual practitioners?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the really cool thing about this platform is
that our marketplace is like a huge part of it,
and it's a marketplace of astrologers, terror reader's, psychics, human
design experts, akashak records experts. So you can really book
any kind of spiritual practitioner through Laura right now. It's
on a website and we are actually you know, people
can apply it to be practitioners, which is really amazing.
I just love to be able to give spiritual practitioners
like more of a presence, more of a platform, and
you can book that now on your web on our website,
but it will eventually be bookable and the app, which
is going to be really cool because I feel like
it'll be a cool companion to your readings and being
able to actually integrate your learnings on an everyday basis.
I love that, you know, because sometimes they feel like
people get readings and then it's like in one you're
at the other.
Speaker 1: And it's like here what you want to hear?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like let's like remember remember our lessons at
the timing and all of that. So I feel like
it's a really cool way to integrate astrology into like
everyday spirituality, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My friend Maxine Twig who you're connected with, Yes, I
love Vaccine, like trying to get her astrology business up
and running and that's been super helpful for her. She
taught a workshop for you guys last week. Oh my god,
she killed it.
Speaker 2: Vaccine did like a whole year ahead workshop for everyone,
so like the astrological New Year. So we have a
really great community and really great community of practitioners and
it's just like so nice to be in this group
of people who are into astrology and are into their
spirituality and want to grow in that way.
Speaker 1: So in addition to your own thing, you're working to
build this too. Ayes side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, working as their head of astrology, which is so
cool because like for a tech company startup to like
as one of their first hires to actually be an
astrologer speaks volumes and they really do like center the
people who are doing this work, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: And you come from a tech background, I did you
were a snapshot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was in the tech world and that really,
honestly is the perfect kind of way to get into
this because it gives me this extra like kind of
scale set beyond just astrology.
Speaker 1: So to be able to work.
Speaker 2: At a startup and like understand how apps work and
all of that, it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is I need to check this out. I'm
just like recommend it to people because I feel like
so many people are kind of like, how do I
make this into a business. Totally nice that you're giving
them a place one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: So yeah, get Laura on Instagram and then our website,
get Laura so oh yeah lr lrive and if you
can't find it, just reach out to me and DM
me and I'll get you. I'll get you on Laura.
Speaker 1: Okay, now I want to pivot to the elephant in
the room. Two elephants. Yeah, yeah, we are both pregnant
at the same time. Yeah, which is crazy because when
we first met each other back in October twenty twenty five,
I think I had mentioned like, yeah, I'm going to
start trying to get pregnant soon, that's like what I'm
really wanting for twenty twenty six, and I think you
were still undecided. But I took one look at your
chart and I was like, I think you're going to
be pregnant too.
Speaker 2: It was so funny because I've always known that I
wanted to have kids and a mom, but I just,
you know, I hadn't started trying yet, and I feel
like twenty twenty six was like when I was going
to start trying. And in my mind, I mean, I
was like, this is could take a year, like this
could take a long time, you know, And I'm like
totally aware of that. And you took one look at
my chart and you're like, you're going to get pregnant
in January and you're going to tell everyone at March.
I was like, outice that's impossible. I hadn't even started trying.
I was like, there's no way that's going to happen,
and and you were.
Speaker 1: Like, no, it's going to happen. Like I want to
do a podcast. We're going to talk about being pregnant together.
I was like, what are you saying?
Speaker 2: And then literally it was it was my premonition. No,
you are just an expert at what you do. It
was amazing.
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of amazed at how close were we
ended up being in those pregnancy Like you were do
eleven days after me. Yeah, we're both having virgo girls.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2: I feel like they're like twins in another lifetime or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to talk a little about a bit
about that, like the timing of when you decided you
were ready to have this major life shift, because I
know for me, it was something that had been in
the back of my mind for the last couple of years.
I'd say since more seriously maybe since the end of
twenty twenty three into twenty twenty four. But it wasn't
like the time is now, and I was kind of
waiting for that moment to appear where it was like
the time is now, like, I'm not scared anymore. I
want to do this, And that really came for me
at the September twenty twenty five Pisce's lunar eclipse, which
was like I think it was within three degrees of
my Pisce's moon. So having that eclipse on the moon
really brought up this desire to make a change and
become a mom. Was it what went on for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting because similarly for me, in December,
I had a full moon exactly on my moon. There
was a full moon at thirteen degrees DM I same degree, yes,
And that was literally well, backing up a little bit
because I'm a vergorizing, everything is very like health conscious,
so I basically was like detoxing for all of twenty
twenty five with a functional medicine doctor to prepare for pregnancy,
off birth control and all of that. So I'd been
doing like all these crazy herbs and you know, cutting
out all these crazy foods and really just detoxing and
cleaning out my body. And then it wasn't until December
of that full moon. I said to my doctor, I
was like, okay, like let's switch over the plan, Like
let's go to like the prenatals. Let's like I'm going
to I'm gonna start trying at the end of this month,
like I'm ready to go. And it was that full moon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that led into like I think the new
moon in your fifth house that came up when you
like actually were finding out was that around the time
the new moon was a little after but yes, fifth
house activations were really key for you right now.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, so it was the Mars Kasimi, yes, with Capricorn,
and the full sign was my fifth house. So yes,
that was the repeat. It was when I found out
it was a Virgo moon, which is my sentien.
Speaker 1: And then we had we had that triple Kasimi.
Speaker 2: It was like Venus Mars with the sun and this
is what.
Speaker 1: I was looking at when we met in October for
the first time and we were like, don't really see that.
I was like, No, Jupiter's in cancer in late December January.
All these planets are going to move into Capricorn in
your fifth house and conjunct all of these natal planets
and be amplified by Jupiter. Like that is the moment.
Speaker 2: It's just so wild because like my like practical brain
was like no, no, like that's too soon, like it
couldn't be, like you know. And the crazy thing about
that kazimi was that the last time there was a
Mars Kasimi in Capricorn was when I was born.
Speaker 1: Whoa, So it was a repeat that took thirty two years. Yes,
oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there are Mars kazimis once every two years,
but the last time it was in Capricorn was literally
nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: It was this repeat at the same degree marker two.
Speaker 2: It wasn't the same degree mine's at five, and I
think it was at like seventeen years, okay, so like
very significant though, yeah, oh my god, it was like
it's it was a really interesting repeat. And to see
that repetition from thirty two years was wild and for me,
like being born to then like finding out I'm going
to be a mom.
Speaker 1: Really so wild. Yeah, I would say, yeah, the moon,
the ascendant in the fifth house are like all of
those were key in your timing mine too, Like those
parts of the chart are just so important when it
comes to pregnancy and the identity shift that comes up
at this time. M hm.
Speaker 2: And that's well, and also our solar returns for this year.
Speaker 1: We both have moon on the mid hoven on the
mid heaven, and I always say moon on the ascendant
or moon on the mid heaven or moon in the
fifth House like fifth house planet's and a solar return
would also indicate. But moon on the ascendant or mid
heaven is something's happening with like a shift in how
you're perceived literally being seen as a maternal like figure.
I would also say, like body going through changes to
like fluctuating appearance as you gain weight and like step
into this pregnant body. Oh my god. Totally yeah, totally,
it's so crazy. It really is. It really is. And
we both found out two like right around the time
of our solar returns.
Speaker 2: Literally right around that time. I mean I think it
was like a week after my birth there or something
two weeks after.
Speaker 1: My birth, yeah, and I found out like a month
before my birthday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was like really like the prominent on
those solar return themes they were going into effect. Yeah.
And I also think it's interesting that Uranus is heading
toward my mid heaven too, when you know our due
dates are, and that really just kind of change changes
my purpose. I think it'll change my practice a lot
in my career, Like right now, I love working with
people going through their sad in return, and I always will,
but it's like, who knows how becoming a mom will impact,
you know, my personal practice with Fourthhouse Astrology and really
like supporting moms in that way, And that's what I'm
most excited for because I feel like a lot of
my astrology practice is guided by like my current interests
and changes I'm going through in my own life. So
I was kind of like, I want a bigger shake
up to happen, and I feel like it'll open up
all these different interests that come about as a result.
Like I'm so excited to talk more about like the
astrology of pregnancy than being an actual mom, And because
I get so many questions about this and I'm like,
I can't, like I can help you, but I don't
have that direct experience with it yet. Yes, there's something
about the life experience. And also from my perspective, I
cannot wait to now see the family dynamics and how
you know, mine and my husband's astrology feed into this
new person.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see the rising sign, like what
the moon sign ends up being. It's going to be
so interesting.
Speaker 2: I know, and it's going to be really hard not
to like judge it. Like, you know, I was looking
and seeing around my du date. It's like, oh, you know,
there's a libramon that's around that time opposing Saturn. I
don't want her to have Moon imposing Saturn, like you know,
and it's like, okay, you know, not everything's about me.
Speaker 1: But so it's like whatever is meant to be will be.
Speaker 2: But as an astrologer, we're you know, we're just like
so attuned to like what these placements can mean and
not like judging that it is important.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I was going to say, like the
same how you were having this major repeat transit at
the time that you found out you were pregnant, Like
I have major repeat transits at the time of giving birth,
oh around your due date. Yeah, yes, Like I think
I have Jupiter trying Saturn in my chart. Uh right
at the exactly due date. Jupiter is trying Saturn, and
I also have a couple others. I'm going to go
through it because it's just so interesting. I have Sun
conjunct Mercury in my chart, like with Mercury just one
degree ahead of the sun. Yep, that's going on at
the do date. Wow. And then also right around the
due date is moon and Pisces at eleven degrees, trying
Mars and cancer at eleven degrees, and I have that
same exact degree and trying in those signs in my chart.
Speaker 2: Like I just like I have chills thinking about that,
Like it's such an incredible connection point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just shows it's like it's not random,
like these bigger shifts that go on in your life.
It's it all happens like when it's meant to. It
really is.
Speaker 2: And I think like that's the biggest thing that I
see with my clients. It's like wanting to find their
love or wanting to get the thing or you know,
you know, and just feeling like they're behind. It's like
the one thing that astrology has taught me, it's like.
Speaker 1: You're never behind. You're never behind. And also you never
took a wrong turn. That's what I would say, Like
people beating themselves up, like oh I kind of messed
up that transit. I should have done that. I'm like, no,
you actually didn't. It was meant to play out like that.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think that's why, like for me, the
reflection points of astrology are the most important. Like just
living your transit is one thing, but then like journaling
about it, talking about it, you know, really reflecting on
what that is, because that's how you reap the benefits
of these transits. And like the idea of like you know,
life's happening, you know, not to you, but for you,
and like really owning those moments I think is the
most important thing. But those kind of like when you
see those exact degree moments, that's what kills me because
it's like there's three hundred and sixty degrees in an
atle chart and for there to be two planets making
an exact like in the same signs and the same
degree like.
Speaker 1: That you have in your birth chart, repeating randomly again.
Speaker 2: Like this is magic, it's so cool. And I similarly
around my du date, so my ascendant point is eighteen
degrees of Virgo, and three days before my do date,
there's a new moon at eighteen degrees of Virgo.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I want to talk about this because I
also have another example too of just people giving birth
right after own new moon in their sign of their rising.
So I'm giving birth a couple weeks after a solar
eclipse in Leo, which is about six degrees away from
my fourteen degree Leo rising. You're giving birth right after
a new moon in your rising sign. Just had someone
yesterday tell me they're pregnant. They're a Scorpio rising. Their
due dates right after a Scorpio new moon. Oh my god,
my mom gave birth to me. She's an Aquarius rising
a couple of days after a new moon and Aquarius.
It's very common, and I think it's all tied into
like this is a major shift in like how you
think about yourself and your priorities and how you're seen
by the world. It's a total like shake up to
your identity.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's why the ascendant is so important, and it
can really mean so many things because like it is
your identity, so like anything can be shifting about your identity,
your job, your career, your relationship, you know, becoming a mom,
all these things. And that's why the ascendant I always
I just think any transits to that are like the
most important.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm so excited to have Jupiter and the
eclipses in my ascendant sign. As you're I'm just going
to be so nice and I'm like always known that
something major like this would come up at this time.
Like it's just it's a total shake up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, and in like such a positive way too.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like really owning who you are and
your confidence and I feel like you coming out of
the Twelfth House. Oh my god, I've hit it. I
know when I'm about to go into right now, which
is so crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm curious because I've had Twelfth House Jupiter during pregnancy,
and this has felt like a twelve House time. Like
I was very sick during the first trimester. I was
very isolated because I was so sick, Whereas like you
didn't have that rough of a time because you didn't
have the Twelfth House transit. Yeah, but you're going to
have it postpartum, right, and I'm not. So it's interesting
how like that is a common transit I see, like
Jupiter through the twelfth for these postpartum order and pregnant See,
I'm excited to trade notes on like how you experience
it differently versus like how I did.
Speaker 2: Totally, and like when I saw that, I was like, oh,
that makes perfect sense. I'm going to be a hermit
and like literally, my body's going to be in shambles.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, you got it. We don't need astrology to.
Speaker 2: Tell us that, but that you know again, and it
kind of hopefully will make it a bit better, just
like knowing that like this is the moment, this is
the transit. It lasts one year. Yeah, and like what
can I learn from this?
Speaker 1: You know, I will say, like my mental health, even
though I've had those feelings of isolation, like with Jupiter
in the twelfth, my mental health has been a lot better.
It like brings this optimism to mental health.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And like
I think, like with Jupiter, you know, being associated with
you know, things like philosophy and religion, and with the
twelve House being this like spiritual place, Like I feel
like while there is that shadow of like you know,
the focus on mental health and being in more solitude
or maybe not feeling well, there are kind of those
gifts of connection to spirituality and.
Speaker 1: Like the greater purpose and like the bigger, the bigger picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so that's what I hope at least
I feel like with these transits, it's always helpful to
be like Okay, this is going to be the challenge,
and then this is going to be what's going to
get me through it, you know. And it's not about
like bypassing the challenge, right like I'm going to be
in it and feeling it and acknowledging it. But in
those moments when I just get to look at my
astrology or look at my chart, it's like that great
reminder of like, oh right, like let me do a
meditation or like you know what I mean, let me
like see if I can get like a cranio sacrole session.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and maybe like giving birth like that
is something that feels very spiritual to you and opens
you up to a bigger connection definitely, where like I've
naturally noticed it just being pregnant, like I feel connected
to something like inside like the little soul inside me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well you know I'm a huge fan of
Spirit Babies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that book. I mean, I cannot recommend this enough.
Speaker 2: Like if you are trying to conceive, get yourself a
copy of Spirit Babies.
Speaker 1: I'm like so into it. I see a Spirit of
Baby Psychic and she's coming on this podcast a few
way software this comes out, So oh I can't wait
for stay tuned for an amazing episode. I can't wait.
Speaker 2: But it's true like these like you know, there are
these great ways to connect with the spirit that will
be your baby, and it's it really does make you
feel powerful and connected in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to, like lastly talk about how
because a big fear of mine going into pregnancy was like,
how am I going to still run my own business
while being a mom. Have you had those same fears,
like what are how are you preparing for like splitting
your time in that way or even taking like a
maternity leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still something where I'm like, we're gonna play
this right year. I'm going to try to batch like
two to three months of content, Yeah, just so I
don't have to be doing stuff if I don't fe
like it. But it's kind of scary to step away.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's not scary to step away, especially like
you know, being very Saturnian in that way, I always
wanting to be productive and always feeling like I should
be doing this or I should be doing that. But
I just know that this time is so brief, and
like my connection with this baby is literally the only
thing that matters to me, and I'm just like nothing
will get in my way of that. I feel like
that's very much like my mars because me being like,
oh no, I have like this intense need and like
I'm that's going to be my biggest priority. But I think,
you know, hopefully my gem and I'm mid Heaven and
Moon kind of helps me balance some things in terms
of like making content.
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I can FaceTime a friend, i can
make a TikTok. That's my point of view, So I'll
see if.
Speaker 2: That's really they I think like I'm not holding onto
anything too tightly, you know, and I think being able
to rest is incredibly important. We both have really supportive partners,
which is incredible. Like yeah, I mean my husband literally
his birthday was in March, and like it was like
months ago, asked, Hi'm like, what do.
Speaker 1: You want for your birthday? He's like a baby.
Speaker 2: He's like, that's like all he wants is a baby.
So I feel like he's going to be super into
it too, and hopefully, you know, as much as a
man can help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you can plan for it being one way,
but until you're in it. It's kind of just like
see play up by a year almost. Yeah, have the
structures in place, but then I feel like my mindset
and my priorities will shift naturally completely.
Speaker 2: And I also think right especially with my yarness, you know,
heading over the mid Heaven, I'm like things are changing,
purpose is changing, and I feel like with September du dates,
it's like I kind of guarant towards the holidays at
that point, Like I feel like it's kind of a
good time of year to like slow down.
Speaker 1: We're also building up to a Mars retrograde. Mm hmm,
I'm not going to get that much done during a
Mars retrograde. Yeah, Like, once that retrograde ends in the
spring of twenty twenty seven, I feel I'll have so
many new ideas for my business, and hopefully eight months
out after giving birth, hopefully it's like, Okay, I'm kind
of used to this now, and now I have more
attention to put back into my career by starting up
new like ventures again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred and I think just like sometimes the
best ideas really do come in times of rest and
just like reflection and not doing all of the things.
So I do feel like, hopefully we're going to take
this time and do what we can and like on
the other side of it, like come out of it
with like a totally new perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and like new new like wind beneath
our wings or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, Like there's going to be like a really
big purpose for Rest, like get out there and keep
doing it.
Speaker 1: We're going to come out of the Mars retrograde more
sure of ourselves, I think. So it's a first house
retrograde for both of us. Yeah, it's going to be.
Speaker 2: I mean, Mars retrograde is never easy for me, but
it's definitely going to be a rough one.
Speaker 1: But hopefully it's just.
Speaker 2: About how my reflection and it's like it's okay, it's
okay if you don't get anything done, but just surviving
the day, you know, one other thing, Like you would
kept mentioning Urinus moving into like your mid heaven sign.
Speaker 1: I have Pluto squaring my mid heaven at this time,
so it's like we both have these huge outer planet transits.
Oh yeah, totally changing up like life, purpose, identity status
in the world.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. The squares cannot be undervalued. And when
I left the corporate world. Saturn was squaring my mid
heaven as well.
Speaker 1: The squares, because it's like Pluto will never reach my
mid heaven in my lifetime. Neptune will. But it's like
sometimes you don't get the outer planet's conjunct like an angle,
but they'll be square at one of those angles at
some point. So that's also important to pay attention to.
Speaker 2: Oh completely, I'm so happy you're getting Pluto on the
descendant before me because you can tell.
Speaker 1: Me how it goes. Oh my god, I will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pluto is always this that's that one kind of scary.
Speaker 1: I'm getting a lot of Pluto in the next few years. Yeah,
but you got this. Yeah. Well, it's so good to
have you on. This was like an amazing conversation. I'm
love talking to you.
Speaker 2: I can talk to you for hours, honestly literally, No,
it's my favorite.
Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you so much. Yeah, where can people find
you and like book you for reading and find your
services all of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my website is fourth House astrology dot com
and then my socials are all slightly Spiraling, so that's
Instagram and TikTok and also substack, So slightly Spiraling loves reel.
Get all the content and things.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll be sure link those the show notes too.
Thank you so much, Yeah, thank you