1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Dan for Valley, coming 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:13,080 at you with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,640 mister Grant Hughes. As members of Team hashtag Accountability, we 4 00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:22,559 are here today. We are gathered here today to regrade 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,120 the twenty twenty four NBA off season for every Western 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,079 Conference team. We already did the East. Go back and 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:29,359 check it out. The link will be in the pod 8 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:31,800 and YouTube description. I believe. So we went through that, 9 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:33,640 We're gonna go through the West. Now, we have not 10 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:35,960 done our report cards for the twenty twenty five offseason yet. 11 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:38,799 We refuse to, at least as of now, until those 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,280 four restricted free agents, you know, wrap up their damn business. 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,679 That's what we're waiting for, everybody, Grant, before we get started. 14 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:46,280 How that are you? 15 00:00:47,719 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: I'm just waiting for Cam Thomas to end the off season. 16 00:00:50,119 --> 00:00:50,840 That's I really. 17 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 3: We've talked about four guys, but it's really just him, right, 18 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Like is he gonna take the qualifying offer? 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: No? You know what? 20 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: I like? 21 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:00,399 Speaker 3: Are you waiting around and like hoping that just like, oh, 22 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:01,240 I just need closure? 23 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: Like I have sort of I have wondered a little bit, why, 24 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,959 like U ta and Brooklyn hasn't maybe tried like Brooklyn 25 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,000 saying well, let's just renounce Thomas and go give an 26 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,799 offer sheet to Quentin Grime. So I thought about that 27 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:11,319 a little bit. 28 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 3: But that's but that's on brand for you, because that's 29 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,599 like your favorite thing, like the fucking with other teams 30 00:01:16,599 --> 00:01:17,239 with offer sheets. 31 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: Love it, really, you really love it. 32 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,359 Speaker 1: And we used to be a proper country where NBA 33 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,719 general managers to get out off for sheets to other 34 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,359 teams as our face to fuck with them. Mean you 35 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,040 know who was the team that used to be the 36 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:30,000 captain of it themselves? 37 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,359 Speaker 2: Yes, Sean Marks is still the same guy, by the way. 38 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,879 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess maybe he's evolved, or maybe we've 39 00:01:35,879 --> 00:01:36,959 all realized that, like. 40 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,159 Speaker 1: Actually he's drafted four guards. 41 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: Maybe well he's evolved into some very different thinking. We'll 42 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,599 see how that plays out. 43 00:01:44,879 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh no, I I do miss the days. 44 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,959 Speaker 3: I do miss the days of the Alan Crab Shenanigans 45 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,599 and uh so on and so forth. 46 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: But uh that'll end when it ends. We're talking. 47 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:57,719 Speaker 3: We're going further back though, because we're gonna talk about 48 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,760 regrading our grades from last offseason. And I kind of 49 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:06,000 wanted to put a finer point on what we're doing here, 50 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:09,560 which is to say, like it's really just re emphasizing 51 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,319 kind of some things we touched on, but let's like 52 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,879 really hit a couple things in terms of the criteria. One, 53 00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:18,759 every team has different goals and we're doing our best 54 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,919 to I don't know, guess what those goals are. Sometimes 55 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,319 it's obvious, right, like contenders are trying to contend, rebuilders 56 00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:27,759 are rebuilding. It's the mushy middle that gets like trickier. 57 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:31,840 And so as we're grading how moves worked out, what 58 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:34,840 we're really kind of doing is is answering the question 59 00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:39,039 of how closely did this team's moves align with its 60 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,439 goals as nearly as we can tell what those goals are. 61 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,840 And then if we don't agree with like what a 62 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:47,400 team was trying to do, just on a base level, 63 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,439 it's probably gonna hurt the grade because if we think 64 00:02:49,479 --> 00:02:52,080 you should be rebuilding and you're making short sided moves, 65 00:02:52,479 --> 00:02:54,560 even if those short sided moves are like okay, well 66 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,360 that was a decent value, like you're gonna top out 67 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,599 at a pretty low grade because we just don't agree 68 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,280 that that's what you should have been doing. On a 69 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:05,680 macro level, so that's one and then two, Like, I 70 00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:08,919 think maybe we can discuss this, but I think the 71 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,599 main focus of this is more process than result. So 72 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,560 like that made last edition Sixers grade really tricky because 73 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,759 we like the ironically talking process, Like we like the 74 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,840 process of what the Sixers did in the moment, the 75 00:03:21,879 --> 00:03:24,800 results were terrible and we really had an issue like 76 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,639 trying if I didn't I just gave them an F 77 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,479 because I guess I fixated on the results. 78 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 2: But you know, we are. 79 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 3: More process oriented. I guess, like, was this a good 80 00:03:33,159 --> 00:03:36,159 move in theory in light of what this team was 81 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:38,800 trying to do at the time, right, And if a 82 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,240 guy suffers a catastrophic injury that ruins that transaction, Like, well, 83 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:44,919 I don't know, bad result, but I at least am 84 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:47,039 going to try to be more process focused. I don't 85 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,400 know how you feel about it, but you can weigh 86 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:51,159 in on that or let me know. Is there any 87 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:51,800 other sort. 88 00:03:51,639 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: Of criteria that we need to lay out more clearly 89 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,120 before we start. 90 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Well, I think the process is important. I think it's 91 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,520 also we have to have knowledge what would the alternative 92 00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:03,439 route have looked like? And I think this is going 93 00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:05,560 to apply a lot to the current Denver Nuggets off 94 00:04:05,639 --> 00:04:08,159 season for me or I've been fairly critical or I 95 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:11,680 should say skeptical of the MPJA for Cam Johnson trade, 96 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:13,560 and like I still sticking points with it, like you 97 00:04:13,599 --> 00:04:15,919 could have negotiated to get Zeke Nagy and there would 98 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:18,319 be one of my sticking points. But when you start 99 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:19,879 to go through the list of like what else could 100 00:04:19,879 --> 00:04:22,079 Denver have done? Once it's twenty thirty two first round pick, 101 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,480 it doesn't seem like the Bulls weren't going to give 102 00:04:25,519 --> 00:04:27,680 you Kobe White, and that just kind of that fixes 103 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,199 one problem, but then it creates another when he's headed 104 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:34,040 to free agency so after this year. And then the 105 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,360 other thing is I do kind of focus a little 106 00:04:37,399 --> 00:04:41,279 bit on well, like what happened they did this what 107 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,639 But you mentioned you're not too focused on the results, 108 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:45,759 but like it kind of matters that in this instance 109 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,360 we talked about with the Lakers, the Max Christie deal 110 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,319 that ends up being used to acquire Luka Doncic. I 111 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,360 don't know how to and the Lakers off season in general. 112 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,720 I don't want to get too deep into it because 113 00:04:56,759 --> 00:04:58,439 this is part of it, but like we were pretty 114 00:04:58,439 --> 00:05:01,680 critical of them not being more aggress they ended up 115 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,759 like had they traded some first round picks, maybe they 116 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:05,759 wouldn't have been able to get Luka Dancic. No, I 117 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:08,160 don't think that they were sitting there waiting for Lukadancic. 118 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,519 They even seemed surprised by that. But I do think 119 00:05:11,959 --> 00:05:14,120 that matters too. It's to like, maybe what did the 120 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,639 orf the Warriors. They signed some of these guys and 121 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:18,600 then Kyle Anderson's able to be put into the Jimmy 122 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,800 Butler trade, or we we ironically criticized them for not 123 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,079 being more aggressive going after Paul George. Right, oh yeah, 124 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,199 by not doing that it turned into the helped them 125 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,279 turn into the Jimmy Butler trade. So that's not everything, 126 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,879 But I do because they're not sitting there saying, well, 127 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,639 we're not gonna go after Paul George because we know 128 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,439 he's gonna be injured and we know we're gonna get 129 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,319 Jimy Butler for much less. So's it's a tough balance, 130 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:41,439 but I think it's important to at least discuss. 131 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: I'm I agree with that. 132 00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:46,759 Speaker 3: I'm a little less comfortable, like assuming I know what 133 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,759 the roads not taken might have been. I think that 134 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,680 is absolutely a factor and there are some cases like Denver, 135 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,680 like you brought up, where it's like, I think it 136 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,040 is fair to consider like opportunity costs things and like 137 00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:02,920 other options that you decided to forego in favor of 138 00:06:03,319 --> 00:06:06,720 the thing you did. I will weigh that a little bit. 139 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,480 But I'm gonna try harder to just kind of look 140 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:13,360 at assuming they canvassed all their options at the time 141 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,720 and or were aware of, like what else they might 142 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,720 have been able to do reasonably. I'm gonna assume that, 143 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,959 like they decided this was the best choice, and from 144 00:06:24,959 --> 00:06:30,519 a process based perspective, do I agree with that, you know, 145 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,319 in the moment, and then maybe factor in the results 146 00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:35,800 of like how did this turn out? But I'm not 147 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,439 going to sign a percentage to it. But it's like 148 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,680 ninety ten or eighty twenty process versus result and somewhere 149 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,800 sprinkled in there by the way, these are subjective, like 150 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,120 we don't have a rubric for. 151 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:49,079 Speaker 1: This well, but the rubric is a C is average. 152 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,279 People get or met expectations. People always get mad that 153 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,480 their team got to see and in some instances we're 154 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,800 here for the debate. I just don't like the rage 155 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,839 over like how like C has met expectations and so 156 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,519 if you expected them to do less than that and 157 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:04,600 they were able to do more, outline it in the 158 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:07,720 comments or our discord. Go links to the podcast YouTube description. 159 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,759 We'll read it, maybe respond to it. But like it's 160 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:13,560 not like a C isn't really an insult. Now if 161 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,959 they're being downgraded from like an A to a C, like, 162 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,519 then we have the discussion. I think the final note 163 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,199 here would be we didn't we great, we did these grades. 164 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:25,879 I think it's September. It was September fifth, twenty twenty four, 165 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:28,240 So we will note the moves that weren't part of 166 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,240 the grade. We're gonna throw the transactions that we reacted 167 00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:33,439 to last year, and then at the end of it, 168 00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:36,199 going through the big stuff if there was anything notable 169 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:39,759 like in the Timberwolves's case, shocker, the Karnthy town's trade 170 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,720 had not gone down yet when we were grading, so 171 00:07:43,079 --> 00:07:44,680 that will be a part of it. I think that's 172 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,040 it on my notes. How about yourself, I'll call it there. 173 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,319 Speaker 2: I think I think that's a sufficient preamble. 174 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: Also, though, no, sorry, just getting last thing. We're gonna 175 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,480 like work big to small. We are focusing the grades 176 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,839 mainly on the the big moves have the biggest influence. 177 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:02,040 I feel like that's intuitive, but want to try to 178 00:08:02,079 --> 00:08:03,040 lay that out up front. 179 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,199 Speaker 1: All right, we begin not alphabetically. It's separated by division. 180 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,920 I have no idea who's first. The Dallas Mavericks. I 181 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,279 can take us through some of the big stuff. They 182 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,639 traded Ariel huck PORTI I think that's an f right there. 183 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,720 So they did the Tim Hardaway junior trade that ended 184 00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:19,240 up they had to give up seconds. They got Quentin 185 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,279 Grimes back, the best player in the deal, then used 186 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,800 him to get Caleb Martin. That's a weird transactions of events. 187 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,319 Naji Marshall for part of the mid level. We love 188 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,240 that deal in real time. We both really liked the 189 00:08:29,319 --> 00:08:32,000 Klay Thompson deal. They signed him for three years and 190 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:35,240 fifty million dollars. They had Spencer Dinwiddie on a one 191 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:38,639 year minimum as well, and then getting Brandon Williams on 192 00:08:38,639 --> 00:08:40,200 a two way ends up being pretty big when you 193 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,000 looked at what he did last season and how they 194 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:44,399 needed him to kind of fill those holes after the 195 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,720 Luka Dancic trade. So we will reveal what our grades 196 00:08:47,759 --> 00:08:51,360 were and are going from towards the end but Grant, like, 197 00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:54,279 how do you square away all of this knowing what 198 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,440 the Mavericks then did during the season just by blowing 199 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,080 it all to hell? 200 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:02,799 Speaker 3: I mean, the the the Dickhead analysis is basically like, 201 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,480 these are incredible moves because they're all pretty good, and 202 00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:08,080 we know that they're capable of really stupid decision making, 203 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,240 which they did later, that's not really gonna factor. And 204 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,559 I don't know, I think this team and the Lakers 205 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,720 are both kind of like what do we do with them? 206 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:21,559 Because the Luca trade just like wasn't foreseeable coming down 207 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,080 the pike and just totally redefined their seasons, and so 208 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,600 I kind of have to divorce the Luca. I think 209 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:32,000 I'm viewing these moves like the Mavericks did at the time, 210 00:09:32,039 --> 00:09:35,559 which I think was how does this build a good 211 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,279 supporting cast around Luca who took us to the finals 212 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,000 like two months ago, or like what you know at 213 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:42,360 the time. 214 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: Basically, so we. 215 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: I'll be honest, like, well, I listened back to this 216 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,159 and I was kind of surprised we were as high 217 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:50,720 on it as we were. 218 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: We love the nause Marshall. 219 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: I think maybe that had a big, big part to 220 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,120 play because there was like, oh, you're losing Hardaway and 221 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,039 you're losing Derek Jones, Junior Ken Naji Marshall just replaced 222 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,679 both of those guys potentially for part of the mid level. 223 00:10:06,159 --> 00:10:08,120 I think I think that's still like a smart signing. 224 00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:13,039 I also think that the Klay Thompson deal like looks 225 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:15,879 a little worse from a result standpoint, because he did 226 00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:18,320 basically just have like his worst season since he was 227 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,120 a rookie. But he was still like a good shot 228 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,519 it fine, like shot it great for anybody else, shot 229 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:26,039 it fine for him and filled the role they they 230 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,080 needed him to fill at three years fifty, that's totally fine. 231 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,080 And then Josh Green, who you know, you know my 232 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,440 stance on Josh Green, hated to lose him, but like 233 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,799 he was a zero for you know, he didn't do anything, 234 00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:41,200 so it didn't cost them much. Overall, this is still 235 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,600 a very good offseason. I think if we can just 236 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,200 divorce the whole, like, well, Luca's not in the middle 237 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:46,960 of it anymore. 238 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 2: Do you agree with that? Like, are you still pretty 239 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:49,159 high on it? 240 00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:52,519 Speaker 1: Yeah? I I am still very high on it. I 241 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,039 think Clay, you could make the cases arguably more important 242 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,440 now because of just their need for spacing when it 243 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,480 looks like how they're gonna use Cooper flag the Kyrie 244 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,399 Irving injury. That's I just think the deal is fine, 245 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,120 Like it's not a moveable. What I also liked about 246 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,919 that trade, which you rather indifferent to or skeptical of, 247 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:10,200 I thought they did great to get off of Josh 248 00:11:10,279 --> 00:11:11,159 Green's coat. 249 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, one of these days, I'm gonna 250 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,559 give up the ghost on Josh Green. That day was 251 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,440 not September whatever, twenty twenty four. I was still very 252 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:21,679 much in on Josh Green. 253 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:21,919 Speaker 2: At the time. 254 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,519 Speaker 1: I don't The thing that I'm getting tripped up on 255 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,399 is just the order of operations with Tim Hardaway Junior 256 00:11:27,399 --> 00:11:30,639 and Seconds becoming Quentin Grimes becoming Caleb Martin is just 257 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,200 so bizarre but looks like a disastrous acquisition slash. That 258 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,320 contract isn't great. We loved remember when he didn't he 259 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:40,279 went to the Sixers and we applauded them for that. 260 00:11:40,759 --> 00:11:42,840 This isn't Cody Martin where it's been a few years 261 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:45,440 since he's been available, so that could still they have 262 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:48,879 a lot of rangey defenders on this team right now. 263 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,960 And so whether or not you agree with the direction 264 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:55,279 now I think matters. But their offseason that they had 265 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,799 last summer doesn't actually look worse. Even if you want 266 00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:00,919 to figure out what are they doing right now, there's 267 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,279 nothing that hamstrings them long term. You look at Klay 268 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,279 Thompson and say, well, if your window is Cooper Flag, yeah, 269 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:11,240 that's weird. But the MAVs still fans right The MAVs 270 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:14,360 also right now still fancy their window as right now 271 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,120 like the Nico Harrison still cringy that. Oh. I think 272 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:20,919 MAVs fans are understanding the plan now is as if 273 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:23,000 the plan was to get lucky in the lottery. So 274 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,840 even if you want to take into account what happened 275 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,519 with Luca, I don't think that changes how you viewed 276 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,799 this off this last offseason at all. 277 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: I just don't think. 278 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 3: I just don't think you can factor in anything about 279 00:12:34,919 --> 00:12:37,320 Luca trade. I think I just it's too there's too 280 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,320 many like that introduces too many variables and it complicates 281 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,320 things too much. I think maybe we could jump to 282 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:46,799 how we've changed their grades. So you had them at 283 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,759 an A plus, I had them at a day I 284 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:51,799 should say too. Part of that was like the Mavericks 285 00:12:51,799 --> 00:12:54,000 didn't exactly go into the off season looking like a 286 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:56,720 team with a lot of flexibility or options, right like, 287 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,559 So that is a huge We should have maybe mentioned 288 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,279 that earlier. That's a huge component. Oftentimes we're grading a 289 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,039 team on the basis of, like what it did with 290 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,360 the resources available, and it looked like the MAVs did 291 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:10,000 not have much in the way of resources at the. 292 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:12,879 Speaker 2: Time, So that's part of it. You've gone down to 293 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:13,559 an A minus. 294 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: I went from A down to a B plus, still 295 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,759 highly favorable grades. I think, if anything, I'm knocking it 296 00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:23,519 down because Thompson was a little worse and because the 297 00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:26,799 Grimes thing was just a weird series of transactions that honestly, 298 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:28,600 if they just kept Quentin Grimes and like he'd been 299 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,360 Sixers Quentin Grimes, this would the grade wouldn't have changed 300 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:32,440 for me, No. 301 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: It wouldn't have, but I think he he would have 302 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,480 been more useful on this team. And Ka Kayla mar 303 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,120 is just redundant in a bunch of ways. I did. 304 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:40,919 I didn't dig them for this, but we were high 305 00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:43,240 on the fact that they extended Nico Harrison last summer. 306 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:44,399 I would like to point out. 307 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,039 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that's an f maybe we need to scrap 308 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,679 everything we just. 309 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: Said, Would you like to take us through the Houston 310 00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:53,120 Rockets off season? YEP. 311 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,799 Speaker 2: Drafted a pod favorite, Read Shepherd at number three. That 312 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,000 was a big one. They traded number four. 313 00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 3: This may seem small, but they traded number forty four, 314 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,000 who became Pela Larson for AJ Griffin, who became not 315 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,360 an NBA player anymore. 316 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:05,799 Speaker 2: We like pel. 317 00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: Larson, AJ Griffin, wish him the best, but he's out 318 00:14:08,039 --> 00:14:10,840 of the league. Brought back Jeff Green, picked up Jayshon 319 00:14:10,879 --> 00:14:16,000 Tate's option. Aaron Holliday, no big deal there, Jonathan Williams, 320 00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:18,639 Nefali Dante, and Jack McVeagh. A bunch of two ways there. 321 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:23,519 So this really kind of comes down to Shephard. And 322 00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:26,200 then there were some transactions we did not grade that 323 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,240 I think probably need to be heavily factored in. And 324 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,279 I will address my regrade when we get to it, 325 00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:37,639 because I actually forgot I didn't think about the off 326 00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:41,519 season signings that were not factors. Alprin Shangoon and Jalen 327 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:45,120 Green both got their extensions, so maybe we can talk 328 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,639 about those individually as we get to them. But we 329 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,879 loved their off season. We were both high on them. 330 00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:53,639 I'll just spoiler it. We're still high on them, and 331 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:55,799 I'm gonna have to amend my grade to reflect that 332 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,360 we both had A minuses. 333 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: You moved up to an A, I moved to a 334 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:00,519 B plus. 335 00:15:00,559 --> 00:15:03,879 Speaker 3: I think in light of Shangoon and Jalen Green, who 336 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,720 again we're getting too far into the results, but that 337 00:15:06,879 --> 00:15:10,000 the process of that Jalen Green contract, which was from 338 00:15:10,039 --> 00:15:12,559 the moment it was signed, everyone agreed designed to be traded, 339 00:15:12,759 --> 00:15:15,360 got traded and got you Kevin Durant. So I if 340 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,320 I were re regrading my regrade, I would be up 341 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,080 there with with you at an A instead of a 342 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:20,600 B plus. 343 00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:23,279 Speaker 1: I think in this case though, the results would be 344 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,840 important because had we graded the Jayalen Green extension, we 345 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,399 would have said that's an overpay in a vacuum. And 346 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,759 they turned it around and helped it helped get Kevin Durant, 347 00:15:31,879 --> 00:15:35,679 and it didn't drum up your opportunity cost much because 348 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,000 the number ten pick you would have had a hard 349 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,639 time fitting. They had to get rid of Cam Whitmore 350 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:41,240 afterwards because they didn't think they had playing time. They 351 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,080 ended up selling low on him. But like it almost 352 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,840 when you look at well, they had to send out 353 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,399 other salary to make the money work anyway, and Brooks 354 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:52,799 makes sense it the Jahn Green contract ended up not 355 00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,480 costing them at all, so that's big. But what I 356 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,799 would point out is so five years, one hundred and 357 00:15:57,799 --> 00:16:00,679 eighty five million for Opera and Shangoon, the scale, the 358 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480 way that they gained it perfect. They are like the 359 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:06,240 only team that seems to negotiate with their high profile. 360 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,559 They're doing it right now with Kevin Durant. They did 361 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,320 it with Jabari Smith junior Alpernheng Gun. Honestly, last summer 362 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,799 more than this summer, had a case to be considered 363 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,000 a max player. Oh yeah, and this extension, even with 364 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,679 him kind of having a down efficiency year, it doesn't 365 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,639 look any worse. If anything, Just kind of knowing what 366 00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:26,919 we expect from other guys or seeing what other guys' 367 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,200 money are getting, it makes you feel better about it. 368 00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:33,519 So I just home run off season by them. And 369 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:35,279 by the way, part of this for me, and I'm 370 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,320 not kidding, is just the Red Shepherd pick. There's nothing 371 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,200 that has happened that makes me all like they should 372 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,240 have taken player ads. No, I think Reed Shepherd was 373 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,799 the pick. I think he's going to be the best 374 00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:49,360 player from that draft class, and I think he proved 375 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,440 a lot of that at least moments in Summer League. 376 00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:53,559 And maybe I'll have egg on my face there, but 377 00:16:53,559 --> 00:16:56,120 that also contributed to me. That's what's fun about the 378 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,279 regrades too, is it's tough to grade the pick of 379 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,879 rookies in the moment, even if you think they were 380 00:16:59,879 --> 00:17:02,759 all alternatives. We don't have a real NBA sample size 381 00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:05,359 now with Reed Shephard, we still kind of don't. But 382 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,480 that's also what's a little bit fun about regrades is 383 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,119 you're taking a look back at, oh, this is who 384 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,880 they selected where what were their alternative avenues? 385 00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:14,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree with all that. 386 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,799 Speaker 3: I really liked the reputation of the Rockets getting established 387 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,400 last summer as a team that is not going to 388 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,680 rubber stamp Max's I. 389 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,279 Speaker 2: Think is really interesting. 390 00:17:28,279 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: I don't know how it factors into a grade, but like, 391 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,920 I think it's good in the sense that it did 392 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,160 probably give them the ability to tell Jabari Smith Junior, 393 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,640 like hey man, like Alpern Shang Gun didn't get it, 394 00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:40,839 like this is this this is a good deal for 395 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,920 you relative to that, So take and it's like we 396 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,799 love the Jabar Smith extension this summer. I wonder if 397 00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:49,720 that becomes a potential negative down the line where teams 398 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,680 or players are like, well, if I go to Houston, 399 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,400 I'm gonna have to fight for every dollar. Like that's 400 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,680 that's not ideal long term, but I think for purposes 401 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,680 of the grade, like you just can't view a I 402 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,480 don't know if it's below market, but it's certainly a 403 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,839 below Max uh signing for Shanoon and Green really like, 404 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,160 I think there are a lot of teams that would 405 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,680 have just yeah, here you go, five years, Max, you 406 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:13,359 got you know, you're both, you're both good young players. 407 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,000 You could get this somewhere else maybe, and they just 408 00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:18,880 rubber stamp it. So kudos to the Rockets for I 409 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,880 don't know, holding strong. 410 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, there's a lot of masterclass team building 411 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,480 going on for them over here. We move on to 412 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:29,480 the Memphis Grizzlies. This is this was this was tough. 413 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,799 Regrays normally aren't that hard for me? Grant this one 414 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,000 was hard for me. Yeah, So taking taking us through 415 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:39,279 the major business, drafted Zach Idiot number nine. Drafted Jawn 416 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,720 Wells at number thirty nine. They traded number fifty seven. 417 00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:47,119 This matters. I promise Olrich Shamsha for camp Spencer. He 418 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,400 signed a two way. He's actually someone I would just 419 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,000 keep an eye on or not. Yeah, they traded Zira 420 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,279 Williams and Dallas' twenty thirty second to Brooklyn for d'achite. 421 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,680 He was waived Lukenard one year, nine point three million 422 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,799 dollars after having fourteen point eight million dollar team option declined, 423 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:05,319 and they sign Jay Huff to a two way. Now 424 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,160 we know has been traded Indiana. It looked like he 425 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,640 was gonna have they had injuries. It looked like he 426 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,119 was gonna have a moment, and then he kind of didn't, 427 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,000 sort of faded. We weren't fans of the offseason. It 428 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,200 was and I think you in retrospect, this was a 429 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,880 team that still won forty eight games. They didn't use 430 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,160 their non text preimer level exception. They made it that 431 00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:23,799 the trade deadline. 432 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,839 Speaker 3: That by the way, sorry, not using the mid level 433 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,279 was a huge factor in us. 434 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, dinging them. That was like a because of what 435 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:31,279 you just said. 436 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, they still won forty eight games, But like this 437 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,799 was a team that was coming off the season from 438 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,079 hell and was supposed to be Like I don't know, 439 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:38,920 are they going to be top three four in the 440 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,720 West and you didn't use the mid level? We at 441 00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:44,599 us you were went in on them for it, and 442 00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,480 I was with you, but like that that is the 443 00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:49,279 I think may if you had to boil it down 444 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:51,960 to one reason that we were so hard on him, 445 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,759 like that was it they did not use the mid 446 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,960 level to improve a roster that like you guys are 447 00:19:57,079 --> 00:20:01,160 going for it right like that jaws healthy whatever, like 448 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,960 you know, we thought, uh, surely he can't, you know, 449 00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:08,240 like that was that's so that speaks to like kind 450 00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:10,359 of the criteria we laid out, like if you have 451 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:12,279 if you're in a certain position as a team and 452 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:15,599 you don't use all the available resources to like get 453 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,880 to the goal that you should be going for, that's 454 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,920 gonna hurt. So anyway, that that was the reason mainly 455 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,079 that we were so low on. 456 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,039 Speaker 1: Them, and I it's well, and I think that becomes 457 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:29,000 the question now, did they take the correct approach in 458 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,519 not capslock going for it? When one you look at 459 00:20:31,519 --> 00:20:34,279 what happened to their season, two what happened in the 460 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:37,079 rest of the Western Conference, and then three what they 461 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,319 ended up doing this Again that's two results based but 462 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,920 it's look at what even their off season became to 463 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,079 where it's we weren't sure about Zach Edy and we 464 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,599 know he's injured, but he was good. Jalen Wells we 465 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,039 probably had no priors on. He was my rookie of 466 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:50,400 the year. 467 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 3: Like I like, that's a I mean as much as 468 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,920 almost anything else here, probably more so the fact that 469 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,640 he was a starter on a good team all year 470 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,160 and a huge as a role player role, but it 471 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,759 was an important one at thirty nine. Like that's I mean, 472 00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:08,480 they saw something nobody else did and they have to 473 00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:09,400 be credited for that. 474 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: And even look the Cam Spencer thing, again, that's not 475 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:14,960 something that we would have had strong priors on, but 476 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,880 this is just like it's it's a potential hidden gem 477 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,480 for them. Just when you look at what he's able 478 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,920 to do, and he shot forty six point five percent 479 00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:26,440 on seven point two to three point attempts per game 480 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,559 when he was was that the summer league numbers that 481 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:31,160 I had, Yeah, during summer League'm sorry, I don't Why 482 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,839 have those shot it down? And just the type of 483 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,279 volume and the way he was firing off of it 484 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,440 and the things that maybe he could even do as 485 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,839 a playmaker maybe want to tighten his handle. But but 486 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,440 like I'm just saying, like they got mind really excellent 487 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:47,160 value out of trading ould Rich Shamshe and but now 488 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,880 I look at this team and it's okay, Like I 489 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,720 guess that it's easy to say it looks like they 490 00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:53,279 got good value for what they did. But does that 491 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,119 excuse them for not doing more? Is the thing that 492 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,279 I struggled to grapple with. 493 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's right. 494 00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:01,039 Speaker 3: I mean, ultimately we both moved their grade up quite 495 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:03,680 a bit, but that is partly because it started very low. 496 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:06,319 Speaker 2: You went from an F to a B minus. I 497 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:07,640 went D plus to C plus. 498 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,599 Speaker 3: And if you're watching, it's really the guys on the screen, 499 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,359 it's really Wells and Edie, Like they essentially got two 500 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,440 starters in the draft, one of which was the thirty 501 00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:21,279 ninth pick. I mean, you know, the we go back 502 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:23,480 and we struggle with, like how heavily do we wait 503 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:25,799 the draft, especially last year since just like such a 504 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:27,960 crap shoot, And everyone agreed that, like, I don't know, 505 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,480 there's like fifteen guys that are probably about equal at 506 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,559 the top of this thing after the first couple of picks, 507 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,119 So maybe this is a results based but they identified 508 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,240 two guys that could play major roles and they did that. 509 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:43,359 So I mean, from a process perspective, I think that 510 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,640 still is pretty laudable. 511 00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: They I still just and the reason I think they 512 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,079 don't like, well, why is it an a then when 513 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,240 you're looking at the value they mind, it's just they 514 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:53,440 were a team that was supposed to do more, could 515 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,440 have done more, and even something like you should have 516 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,640 explored the Marcus trade market probably sooner because that you've 517 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,559 gotten with maybe not giving off a first round pick 518 00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:02,799 and a straight salary dump. 519 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 2: Sure. 520 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we move on to our next team is 521 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,480 grant the New Orleans Pelicans. You want to take us 522 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,039 through their greatest hits? 523 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:14,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, the team that we, we and everyone else spent 524 00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:16,680 the whole summer saying, oh, they don't have a center. 525 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,440 They don't have a center. They drafted Eve mecI at 526 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,000 twenty one and he became a center for them. They 527 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,440 let's say, they don't care about the second round swaps. 528 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,319 If you're watching this, you can follow along. We're just 529 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,720 trying for the listening audience to the hit. The big 530 00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:31,359 numbers picked up pose Alvarado's two million dollar team option. 531 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,240 The biggest item of all traded Dyson Daniels, Larry Nance, 532 00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:38,400 E J. Liddell, Cody Zeller Lakers twenty five first, twenty 533 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,640 seven first the lead, which is the least favorable of 534 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,440 Milwaukee New Orleans top four protected for de Jonte Murray 535 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,680 Daniel Tice was the other center they kind of snagged later. 536 00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,480 Nothing else of huge, Sorry Dan for you. Javonte Green 537 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:54,000 got a one year minimum deal, so aplus. 538 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: Still in THEBA by the way. 539 00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: Still playing. 540 00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 3: So I don't really, I mean, we were pretty down 541 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,240 on this, and that's before. 542 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,839 Speaker 1: While being high. Sorry, I was down on them, while 543 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:09,880 being way too high even for in the moment on 544 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:10,960 the Dejonte marriage. 545 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 3: Well right, so to have been down on them and 546 00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:17,559 like I get yeah from a prom. Here's here's where 547 00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:21,039 the process based thinking gets tricky. Is it's like, I 548 00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:23,839 don't know on just at the at the moment the 549 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,240 trade was okay. The fact that you're, you know, you 550 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 just who's gonna have foreseen that Dyson Daniels was gonna 551 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,680 turn into what he did, Like I don't know, like 552 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,160 it that's that's such a such a an out it 553 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,599 feels like an outlier result that like you can't. You 554 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,880 just can't have expected that. I don't think I I 555 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200 can't claim to have expected Daniels to be like number 556 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,200 two in defensive Player of the Year. So uh, I 557 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,519 didn't like the trade so much, but like the fact 558 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:54,759 that it worked out so poorly, we are just like, 559 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,599 I don't know, I guess you just have to factor 560 00:24:57,599 --> 00:24:59,480 that in somehow. I'm not sure really what to what 561 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:00,640 to do with that that exactly. 562 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: And there's also the other thing here is that the 563 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,160 whole brandon Ingram situation probably the resolution it reached, Like 564 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,880 we gave them praise for not just relenting and paying him, 565 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160 but then it took way too long for it to end. 566 00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:19,640 And if you were a team, it's just they constantly 567 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,880 seem caught between trying to win now without properly or 568 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,680 fully committing to it. And last year was an extension 569 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,440 of that. I think the Dejenttey Murray trade might have 570 00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:30,960 signaled that, oh they were kind of leading in one 571 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,480 direction and injuries throw that awry. But even then it's 572 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:38,319 just the center position needed more proven depth. Then like, 573 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,480 let's go out there with the Daniel Tyson. We're gonna 574 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,119 rely and Eves me see who ends up panning out. 575 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,160 So it's fine. This afseason was just all over the 576 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,359 place and it's tough to look back on. I think 577 00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,200 you removed the Dejontay Murray injury from the equation. The 578 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:54,279 Dice and Daniels breakout coupled with the value of what 579 00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:57,359 those picks look like now is just it or the 580 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,720 one pick I should say the other was one. It's like, okay, whatever, 581 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,200 like that's that's rough stuff. That's like just to sort 582 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,039 of say the least there. And so I I and 583 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,519 one of the players I liked. They just didn't play enough. 584 00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:11,359 And I'm curious now they have so many centers. Well 585 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,279 Makovic even get minutes this year. The answer is probably no. 586 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,759 Who knows there, But uh, we were not surprisingly grant, 587 00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:20,279 we killed them a little bit, and I don't know 588 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,680 if there's reason to pull back. 589 00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,599 Speaker 3: D pluses, then D plus is now for both of us. 590 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,559 We did not factor in the Trey Murphy extension, which 591 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,119 is a pot like I like that deal four for 592 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,039 one twelve, but I think just in light in light 593 00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:38,440 of how badly the Murray trade turned out, I think 594 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,720 that more than offsets it. The Murphy signing, like and 595 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,480 and mec is probably the other big hit, but like, 596 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,000 how big of a deal is that really? So they 597 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:48,960 just ended up having to stay stay put at the 598 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,279 D plus because just you know, the couple good things 599 00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:55,359 did not counterway the disaster of the Murray trade. 600 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,559 Speaker 1: mecI seems like he was an excellent fine in that spot. 601 00:26:57,559 --> 00:26:59,240 And then I love the Murphy extension too. I think 602 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,240 that was a great piece of business. But that's good 603 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,240 enough for a lateral grade there. Then we move on too. 604 00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:07,079 I think this is the San Antonio Spurs are up 605 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,680 and they are my team, so I will take us 606 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,400 through their big business they this was their off season 607 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,680 was fascinating, the sense that I think people wanted them 608 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,480 to do more. They traded number twenty six, number fifty 609 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,079 six and two other second rounders to this is the 610 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,039 Denver Nut. What am I a grand Oh my god, 611 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:28,680 I'm on the wrong team. I'm reading the wrong teams. 612 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 2: San Antonio on the screen. 613 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:31,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have the wrong team on my screen that 614 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,920 I'm looking at. I apologize everybody. They drafted stephanas number four. 615 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,759 They traded number eight. It was Rob Dillingham to Minnesota 616 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:40,960 for a twenty thirty swap. Top one protected and a 617 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,680 twenty thirty one first rounder. Other big business here. They 618 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,839 traded Devonte Graham in a second to Charlotte. They signed 619 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,079 Chris Paul one year ten point five million dollars, had 620 00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:54,799 Mamu on a one year minimum deal, and they guaranteed 621 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,480 champennee salary. We love him. Around these parts. They did 622 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,799 not have any major pieces of business correctly that we 623 00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,599 missed out on, so we were like, I think the 624 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,880 discussion at that point was kind of should they have 625 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:11,079 done more? Given how good Victor Wembinyama was. It was 626 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,359 nice to have Chris Paul as a veteran, but were 627 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,039 they too future focused at the moment? And it turns 628 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,079 out I don't know if they were saving part of 629 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,559 their power specifically for a dearon Fox trade, but they 630 00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:22,880 made the right call by taking the more measured approach, 631 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,759 which we had agreed with in real time. 632 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of the. 633 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 3: A lot of the uncertainty about like the whole when 634 00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:33,799 when or when are we gonna go type of thing 635 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:38,519 around wembin Yama that persists I think even even now, 636 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,240 because clearly he's great. 637 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:41,119 Speaker 2: He was incredible. 638 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,599 Speaker 3: He was a top five MVP guy for me before 639 00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:46,599 he got hurt last year. So it's like green light, right, 640 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,519 and the Spurs haven't completely gone that way. But I mean, 641 00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:53,440 if you just look at these moves in isolation, I 642 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,519 think Castle at four that's a win. You identified the 643 00:28:57,519 --> 00:28:59,440 guy that won Rookie of the Year and you picked 644 00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:01,759 him after three other players came off the board. So 645 00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:04,799 from a process perspective, like I think you clearly get 646 00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,519 a little bit of a bump there. The Dillingham, well, 647 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:10,160 it wasn't really Dillingham, but the number trading number eight 648 00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:13,759 to Minnesota for a swap and a twenty thirty one 649 00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:16,920 first rounder. Do you agree that, like kind of whatever 650 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,039 you think about when the Spurs should be going for it, 651 00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:21,440 Like that's just a good decision just to get two 652 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:23,079 first round assets. 653 00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:27,079 Speaker 1: Based off everything we know about Rob Dillingham right now. Yeah, 654 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,400 it's an unequivocal yes, yeah, just. 655 00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 3: That that has to look better and maybe Dillingham becomes 656 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,720 good enough to where that's an interesting discussion. But at 657 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,480 the moment, a twenty thirty swap and a twenty thirty 658 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,920 one first rounder, like that's just worth more than a 659 00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:44,400 number eight pick. I think, even if even if that 660 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920 number eight pick had been like in a rotation for 661 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,960 most of the year, so that's another win. 662 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: The rest of the thing feels. 663 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,279 Speaker 1: Like sorry, but by the way, they used one of 664 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:54,279 those picks they used the twenty thirty one first round 665 00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:56,599 or as part of that Darren Fox trade. 666 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: There you go. 667 00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,279 Speaker 3: So I mean, well that makes it even more interesting 668 00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:03,160 because you're you're using that asset for like, Okay, there's 669 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,599 our win now bump. But I feel like everything the 670 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,960 Spurs do is just based on I don't know, they 671 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,039 almost kind of take everything case by case, like is 672 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:14,920 this a good enough you know, they're just gonna be opportunistic, 673 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,160 like yeah, yeah, we'll take Fox for this price. I 674 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,720 don't know, it doesn't really fit into like a we're 675 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,640 going forward in twenty twenty nine kind of you know, 676 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,400 they're not that tied to any particular approach. 677 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: I don't. 678 00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:28,119 Speaker 3: It seems like to me, which is I don't know. 679 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,319 I guess there's room to criticize that as like, well, 680 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:34,000 you're not being you know, goal oriented enough. But like 681 00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:36,279 I like the the optionality it gives them and how 682 00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:40,279 opportunistic they can be. So we let's see, I'm looking back. Yeah, 683 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:42,359 we were both like pretty high on this. It was 684 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,920 a bee for you and a be for me. We've 685 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,839 both moved up. You went to A minus, I went 686 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,960 to B plus. I think I would say too that 687 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,400 the Chris Paul decision was was a smart one. He 688 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,559 played every game every last year, like I mean, and 689 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,079 he was I think he was helpful to the young guys, 690 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,039 so correct thought process there and it worked out probably 691 00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:03,119 better than You can't expect Chris Paul to play eighty 692 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:03,440 two games? 693 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Like? That's just that that's a 694 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:05,680 huge win. 695 00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: That's the most like Spurs development is having an age 696 00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:11,440 ninety or Chris Paul will come in and just play 697 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,920 in every game. I also, I know this couldn't have 698 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,559 factored in because had they kept number eight, I don't 699 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,799 think we assume Rob Dillingham wouldn't have been their pick. 700 00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:23,599 But like that decision, knowing what player went there, it 701 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,680 makes the decision look better because of what ends up 702 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,599 happening in this draft lottery where now we're what the 703 00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:30,720 Fox and Harper and Steph Castle, So it makes that 704 00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:34,839 trade look even better from that perspective, I agree. Next 705 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,519 up is now we have the Denver Nuggets, whose transactions 706 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:43,359 I was bravely reading during this Antonio's first section, they're 707 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:43,799 your team. 708 00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 3: If you cared, Oh, okay, Reider, then I mean you 709 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,039 had so much practice at him, I thought you'd want 710 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:49,000 to take another pass at it. 711 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: Let's see. 712 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 3: So, yeah, this is fairly relevant. They traded number twenty six, 713 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,559 which was Ryan done for and number fifty six, which 714 00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,799 is Kevin mccullor junior, a twenty six second and a 715 00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:00,799 twenty thirty one second for Doron Holmes a second. This 716 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,000 is a very much results base thing because he got 717 00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:07,319 hurt immediately and missed the season. I think that's a well, 718 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:10,759 that's an interesting one if if this isn't part of 719 00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:12,279 the grade. But I just want to ask, like, if 720 00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:14,039 you had known that Ryan Dunne was going to have 721 00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,000 exactly the season that Ryan Dunn had last year, would 722 00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,759 you rather have had him than Holmes forget all the 723 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:20,480 other assets? 724 00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: No, on this, I don't know. I guess you could say, 725 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,119 well that it would insulate them against really feeling like 726 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,039 they had to pay I won't say Aaron Gordon. Let's 727 00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:33,000 say Peyton Watson, but he doesn't do what this team needs, 728 00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:35,000 which is they would need more of an offensive punch. 729 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,400 I think from that position, and I like the idea 730 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,119 of what still even following me achilles injury. Of course 731 00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:42,240 he was good in summer League. I like the idea 732 00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:45,319 of what Holmes could provide, but that's still a TVD 733 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,640 in it if you're doing it right now, it's what 734 00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:50,279 we know what Ryan done. And I even like Kevin 735 00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:52,640 mcculluor Junior, but it's just like, these are two non 736 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,519 shooters and the Nuggets need shooting, and they have shooting 737 00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:57,720 now and potentially in a big. 738 00:32:57,839 --> 00:32:59,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry to get us on a tangent there, but 739 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:01,759 I just think that so anyway, like I think what 740 00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:05,480 we land on is we almost can't grade that yet 741 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:08,240 just because Holmes hasn't played, and from a process perspective, 742 00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:14,160 it like it made sense only mostly small time moves. Otherwise, 743 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,160 they traded Reggie Jackson. They signed Russell Westbrook to a 744 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,240 minimum deal. He did opt out or he didn't pick 745 00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:23,680 up his player option for for this season, so they 746 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,759 got a one year rental there. Dario saraz got two 747 00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:30,480 years ten point six million. Uh, atrocious, then atrocious now 748 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,160 even though he's not on the team anymore. Well, yeah, 749 00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:35,519 that you can't, but they hold on. I know where 750 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,519 you're going, But you can't have known that was gonna 751 00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,319 get you. Yonas valentiunis you can't. You don't get the same. 752 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: I just like to point out it didn't take a 753 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,119 second round pick or more. I think they would have 754 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:46,920 had won to trade anyway, like it didn't. They didn't 755 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,519 have to use that to wipe him off. So sure, 756 00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:51,119 what's that meme? I see this as an absolute win. 757 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,240 They played the long game grand yeah, two time. 758 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 3: They're thinking they're the like the Third Eye Timeline DeAndre 759 00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:05,200 Jordan got a vet minimum. Vlacko Chanchar got a minimum. 760 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,039 Some two ways happened what we did not take into 761 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:11,800 account because it hadn't happened yet. Jamal Murray four for 762 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,559 two oh eight and Aaron Gordon three for one oh four. Uh, 763 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,760 that kind of cancels out. I guess when we don't 764 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,280 love and when we I mean Aaron Gordon is worth that. 765 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: I think I think he's probably worth that. But do 766 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,599 you you think it was either smart or not smart? 767 00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:30,320 I guess I don't want to say stupid of them 768 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,920 not to have him decline his play, because they've kind 769 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,280 of kicked the can down the road of being expensive 770 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,079 and I guess you could argue that, I get it 771 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:40,119 would have enabled them to do things this offseason. It 772 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:41,840 would have been more complicated. Maybe you're not looking to 773 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,480 get Cam Johnson back and a Michael Portergriert. Just how 774 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,400 do you square away all that? Because now he's just expensive? 775 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,920 Where all right, this makes you cheaper in the short term, 776 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,519 but you've just made yourself more expensive over the longer term. 777 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,199 Speaker 3: I think the other thing is they let CACP go 778 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,840 for nothing that we haven't really we haven't fixated too 779 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,559 much on like who got away but for Denver. So 780 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,679 just to get back to the core of what we're 781 00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:11,599 talking about, Denver's trying to win a championship, the moves 782 00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:14,320 it made, and the decisions and the moves it chose 783 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,760 not to make KCP leaving even though he sucked in Orlando. 784 00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: Just from a process perspective, we hated this because like 785 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:22,760 what are you doing? 786 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,119 Speaker 3: Like how are you not? Just this needs to be 787 00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:28,840 a full go for it situation. You need to be 788 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,840 thinking boldly like I just so we gave them an 789 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:38,599 f both of us because these moves all feel just inconsequential, unambitious. 790 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,639 I think probably because I wasn't factoring in the Murray 791 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:46,519 and Gordon stuff, I think I probably should come up 792 00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:49,199 from an F but I don't know I could. I 793 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,000 might be able to get there with you on the 794 00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:52,960 D minus that you came up to, because you're coming 795 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,840 up from an F minus. That's a big jump for you. 796 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,199 So maybe you should be talking about how much we 797 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,920 hated their process. But it's hard for me to get 798 00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,239 much higher than like a D minus if I even 799 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,920 get there, just cause I don't know, Like none of this, 800 00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,719 none of this looked to me like a team that 801 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,519 was like, we're okay, let's get it. 802 00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 2: We've got the best player in the world. 803 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,639 Speaker 3: We have to do everything like this team should be 804 00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:15,559 operating like the Bucks have with the Honest where it's 805 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:18,320 just like, wow, that was insane that they tried to 806 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,719 do that. It may or may not work, but credit 807 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,440 them for trying, and Denver just has never operated that way. 808 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: I think you also can make the case that KCP, 809 00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:27,920 because he was firing on defense lest year, would have 810 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,960 been better at he state in Denver. And even regardless, 811 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,440 it is about asset management to an extent. You didn't 812 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,480 turn into a sign and trade if you thought you 813 00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:37,440 weren't going to keep him. Should there have been explorations 814 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,280 of trading with the deadline that probably would have been 815 00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,000 reacted too poorly because you're trying to win a championship. 816 00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,280 I find myself I probably could have bumped them up 817 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,480 higher knowing the shark, which is a low bar. The 818 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,679 Schars deal didn't kill them. I liked Deron Holmes, but 819 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,840 the Russell Westbrook addition. I know that he played a 820 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,960 lot of minutes, and people believe he played relatively well, 821 00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:02,360 But there just moments where it was why did you 822 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,599 subject yourself to this experience? And it happened a bunch 823 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,880 in the playoffs and the other thing I'm having a 824 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,800 really tough time with. I. Ultimately, just to circle back 825 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,239 to my comments on the Aaron Gordon extension, it probably 826 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,280 ends up being net neutral. I think there would have 827 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,280 been something in hindsight to maybe redistributing some of the cost, 828 00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:22,000 like it would have been higher this year but lower 829 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,440 in some of like the out years. It would have 830 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,280 made this offseason tougher. So did Jamal Murray extension. Why 831 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,639 couldn't they have negotiated harder? I've come at it from 832 00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:34,039 the perspective of they couldn't spend that money on anybody else. 833 00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:37,199 You know what, though, grant we've seen it this summer. 834 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,159 No one else was given Jamal Murray that money. 835 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 2: That's the thing. 836 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 3: And it's like that so that was Forgima, by the way, 837 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,880 That's what I mean. Oh yeah, it's not a like, 838 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,480 well we don't know what, we don't know type of 839 00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:51,079 thing or like what would have been out there. I 840 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:54,559 think I think it's very fair to say there were 841 00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:58,639 not Like there weren't teams. There's one team this offseason 842 00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:01,559 that was capable of giving Jamal Murray an annual value 843 00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:04,119 that he got on that extension, and like the Nets 844 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:06,480 wouldn't have done that, Like so just because they. 845 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: Had Michael Porter Junior's money on them, Yeah right, they 846 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:11,519 got the other guy that's overpaid. 847 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, Like it is it 848 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,360 is fair to say what you just said, like they 849 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,599 didn't need to go this high this soon. 850 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 2: Maybe it pisses off Yokic. 851 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,119 Speaker 3: Maybe there's a behind the scenes thing where he's like 852 00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:24,679 you give him what he wants, like this is the 853 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:25,800 second best player I played? 854 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: Which case glad? 855 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: In which case? 856 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: Do it? 857 00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:31,559 Speaker 3: But we don't know that, And like Yokich, if anything 858 00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:35,119 has just been up and down forever, saying like I. 859 00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:35,639 Speaker 2: Don't, I don't. 860 00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:39,079 Speaker 3: That's not like something I think about or have influence over, 861 00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:42,840 believe that or not. But like Murray wasn't getting anything 862 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,679 close to this, He just wasn't. Like the injuries and 863 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,239 are one thing, but the dearth of money elsewhere in 864 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,519 the league is the biggest one. 865 00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 2: Like, you didn't have to do this. 866 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I don't think it was a great offseason. 867 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,920 It doesn't look as bad in hindsight, I think because 868 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:00,280 of what they were able to do with Shari and 869 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,719 Jonas Funciunas and then what we know CACP looked like 870 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,760 in Orlando. But I do think team context had a 871 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,960 lot to do with that. As we already said, let's 872 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,800 get right past the grade image because I left to 873 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,039 Cam Thompson, Cam Johnson graphic in there and he was 874 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:14,880 not a part of the Denver Nuggus last year, Grant 875 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,079 did you know that? But we move on to the 876 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:21,039 Minnesota Timberwolves. Tim Connolly. He came back for twenty four 877 00:39:21,039 --> 00:39:22,800 to twenty five with an opt out for twenty five 878 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,639 twenty six. That was big at the time because of 879 00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:26,960 the ownership fluctuation. We weren't sure what was gonna happen. 880 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,000 Chris finch Head coach, got a four year extension. They 881 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,119 made They were the other side of the Rob Dillingham trade, 882 00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:34,119 the twenty thirty swap with top one protection and the 883 00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:36,679 twenty thirty one first for Rob dilling Ham at number eight. 884 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,119 They drafted Terren Shatton junior at number twenty seven, which 885 00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:43,280 looks like it might have been a friggin steal we 886 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,079 did have, so I want to note this. The Rudy 887 00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:50,199 Gobert extension happened at the start of the regular season, 888 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,199 so it can't be part of these grades technically, but 889 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,119 we did not graide the cat trade, which was just 890 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,599 functionally speaking Don Hedevincenzo Julius Randall first round pick that 891 00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:04,559 turned in barg a for Karl Anthony towns Man. Wrapping 892 00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:06,920 my head around this offseason in hindsight, I think the 893 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,000 one thing I feel confident in saying, is there some 894 00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:11,920 moves that I might like a little better. I'm probably 895 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,239 I'm definitely higher on the Town's trade than I was 896 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,840 because I skewered them for it when we reacted to it, 897 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,719 but also I'm much lower on the Rob Dillingham trade, 898 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,480 because our defining question, our central question while we were 899 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,599 talking about them, was you don't make this move if 900 00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:32,360 you aren't planning or believing that he's immediately ready, right, 901 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,239 And they didn't treat him like that. Maybe because he 902 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,360 wasn't ready, he didn't really show enough to assume he was. 903 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,000 That was predictable. There was a lot of people that 904 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,760 were like, well, it's obviously like this is what he's 905 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,559 gonna do. He didn't do that, and the Wolves it 906 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,599 took them a while to find their footing. I'm not 907 00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:50,480 saying as a result, but that's something that absolutely matters 908 00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:51,519 in the context of all this. 909 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,039 Speaker 3: I think if you're gonna be charitable to the Dillingham decision, 910 00:40:55,679 --> 00:40:59,039 it's to say the Wolves knew that he wasn't gonna 911 00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:02,199 be ready, but liked the package of skills he had 912 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,400 enough to sort of view him as like, Okay, Conley 913 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,880 has like another year or two and in you know, 914 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,519 like talking like in twenty six, twenty seven, Dillingham's gonna 915 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:13,480 be our starting point guard. 916 00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 2: He's gonna be awesome. 917 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,760 Speaker 3: Even that, I feel like is flawed logic and a 918 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,639 bad process, because who knows what any team is gonna 919 00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:25,119 look like in two or three years and you're ready now, 920 00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:27,119 and you have a glaring need at this position that 921 00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:30,519 you think this rookie is gonna fill. I think it's 922 00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:33,519 just it was just a mistake to assume that Dillingham 923 00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:35,679 was gonna be capable of that. And you can't give 924 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,199 up two first round assets for a guy that, just 925 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,159 like I just realistically can't be ready to fill the 926 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,360 role that you need him to fill to justify that trade. 927 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,679 So that drops them for me. That was a bad process. 928 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,320 The Cat trade, I think kind of to me felt 929 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,400 like if he and I hemden Hawd and went back 930 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,119 and forth on who I liked it better for at 931 00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,000 the time, and I still kind of feel that way. 932 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,679 Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna call that like a neutral, you know. 933 00:42:03,159 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: Uh. 934 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 3: And the Dillingham grade is the Dillingham move is what 935 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,199 actually hurts them. I think it drops her grade for me. 936 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: Which is actually, isn't that wild they traded Karl Anthony Towns. 937 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,440 I think the move that impacts their grade the most 938 00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:16,960 is regrade the most is not. 939 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,639 Speaker 3: That, Yeah, which biz are, It's just it's it's Randall 940 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,920 kind of gave them the secondary creation that Cat kind 941 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,119 of didn't and Dillingham couldn't, so in a way they 942 00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:30,880 addressed kind of that the need a little bit. 943 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: I know this isn't a perfect analog, but when you 944 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,840 look at the Gobar extension, the new nas Reed deal, 945 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,039 the current Julius Randall deal and that or the new 946 00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:40,760 Randal deal and then the current Devincenzo deal, it kind 947 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,880 of seems like we could boil this down to the 948 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,000 wolves saying and throw bearing A in there if you 949 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,159 want bearing Jay. Sorry, they decided that instead they could 950 00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,639 have had two of Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy and nas Reed, 951 00:42:53,159 --> 00:42:55,360 or this route where they have nas Read, Rudy, Dante, 952 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,079 Devincenzo and Julius Randall. Right, just financially speaking, when you 953 00:42:58,119 --> 00:42:59,679 look at how the money lines up a little bit, 954 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:05,079 I don't know if that's like I think I'd probably 955 00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:08,559 prefer the former to where where I would rather have 956 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,239 like the four guys than maybe just the two or 957 00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:15,840 whatever it may be. But at the same time, I 958 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,440 still think Karl Anthony Towns is like clearly the best 959 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,320 player off that bunch. Yeah, it's so bizarre. 960 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it. Like I think there's logic too. 961 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,159 We like multiple smaller salaries as opposed to this giant 962 00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:33,119 one for cat and and I do think it's fair 963 00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:37,719 to credit the Wolves with understanding if we get this 964 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,119 giant number off our books, it just gives us like 965 00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:42,639 a little more maneuverability. And maybe that's how we keep 966 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,039 nase Red because we know his free agencies coming up, 967 00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:47,519 and maybe that's how we add You know, there's definitely 968 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:51,559 defenses for it. But again, if you are a Timberwolves 969 00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:54,519 team that is trying to do better than the conference finals, 970 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,159 do you really want to give up the best player 971 00:43:57,159 --> 00:43:59,599 in the deal? Like so, I don't know, it's it's again. 972 00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:02,280 I don't know that I've landed any more firmly on 973 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,400 one side or the other a year on. 974 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, that trade. We might have to revisit it like 975 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,719 next year again too, because I think people have painted 976 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,920 it as a win win when right now I'm more 977 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,880 of like, no, it's like more TBD versus TBD. 978 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,679 Speaker 2: Kind of feels like, yeah, I think that's right. 979 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: Would you like to take so I had we both 980 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,400 had bes or no, I had to be you to 981 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,039 B minus. I moved them down to a C plus. 982 00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:26,119 Just the Dillingham thing is what is what drove it 983 00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:28,639 for me and you you bump them down to a 984 00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:31,360 C plus as well, So same page there, although like 985 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,119 are we giving enough weight? I think it's just Arren 986 00:44:33,159 --> 00:44:35,079 Shannon Junior ended up playing a few more minutes than 987 00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,159 Jail and Clark last year, so it's I know he 988 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,079 had a great summer league again, but we need to 989 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:41,679 see what he still does. I think it's gonna end 990 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,119 up being good, but I don't know he's not enough 991 00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:46,039 of getting him at number twenty seven isn't enough you 992 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,559 Those are your last best trade chips that you forked 993 00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,559 over for Dillingham and he hasn't shown that he is 994 00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:53,400 worth them yet. 995 00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 3: Right, I think that's fair And like, I don't know 996 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,079 how we're trying to not weigh the draft too heavily. 997 00:44:58,119 --> 00:44:59,920 So it's like a twenty seventh pick, even a good 998 00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:00,840 one is kind of like I. 999 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,119 Speaker 2: Don't know, you're just rolling the dice. 1000 00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,199 Speaker 1: Will be different if he's coming, if he won Rookie 1001 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,320 of the Year last year, Like, yeah, that definitely changes 1002 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,280 the complex of the great. 1003 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, we did credit Memphis for Jalen Well, so got 1004 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,679 to stay consistent. 1005 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: Would you like to take us through the Thunder's transaction. 1006 00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:16,119 Speaker 3: Sir, Yeah, let's start with the drafted Nicola Toopic, who 1007 00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,239 do not play at number twelve. We like him, but uh, 1008 00:45:18,599 --> 00:45:21,119 I don't know from a process perspective, love it because 1009 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,960 we're good enough that we don't need the guy to 1010 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:23,599 actually play. 1011 00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:26,039 Speaker 1: So let's he simplified their rotation. They didn't have to 1012 00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:28,079 worry about playing him. That's top not good move. 1013 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,599 Speaker 3: Traded Josh Giddy for Alex Caruso. Stellar results there, just 1014 00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:35,880 the process was just as good. You needed someone that 1015 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,800 could play in a finals, and Giddy probably couldn't have 1016 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,679 gave up five seconds for Dylan Jones. Got Isaiah Harten 1017 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,719 signed for three years in eighty seven million. There's a 1018 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,679 team option on the third year of that. Just the 1019 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,360 hits keep coming. Isaiah Joe four years and forty eight. 1020 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,599 Aaron Wiggins five for forty seven basically turned Lindy Wahs 1021 00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,199 a third into aj Mitchell, who was fucking awesome. 1022 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 2: Until he got hurt. 1023 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,639 Speaker 3: I just and then and then signed Mitchell to the 1024 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,559 to a two way. I think they later canverted him. 1025 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,320 So we loved it at the time. It's like what 1026 00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:08,079 no notes? Everything worked right? Like what didn't work? Is 1027 00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:09,000 any anything? 1028 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,559 Speaker 1: It's I think you could say, did Aaron Wiggins and 1029 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,480 or Isaiah Joe wind up playing smaller rows roles? Excuse 1030 00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:19,440 me than you would have preferred? And it's those contracts 1031 00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:23,880 are just so digestible, and both of those players would 1032 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,400 be I would argue in twenty teams's top seven or 1033 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,840 eight rotations of the league. 1034 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 3: Sometimes they're in this team's top seven or eight, you know, 1035 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,639 depending on the week, like they're it just depends like 1036 00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:38,360 like yeah, like there's so we had them as a 1037 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,599 plus's you added some extra pluses. I don't believe in that. 1038 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,159 I feel like I don't. I don't believe. I don't 1039 00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:46,800 you don't have any grading integrity because a plus plus 1040 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,480 plus isn't a grade. So I just loved it as 1041 00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:49,119 an A plus. 1042 00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:50,599 Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny? We're gonna move on here 1043 00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:53,199 a second. We were just this offseason was just so 1044 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,719 certifiably great that we spent most of that thunder segment 1045 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,760 last year. That was a three hour podcast, by the way, 1046 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,880 so just go back and and listened to drum up 1047 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,239 the algorithm Jews for us. We just argued over who 1048 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,639 would close more games, whether it was Truso or hard 1049 00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:08,920 and side like that was the only thing we talked about. 1050 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,840 Speaker 3: Basically, well, there wasn't there was no there was nothing 1051 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,239 to criticize like and there still isn't it. 1052 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,760 Speaker 2: So, I mean, one of the best off seasons wee. 1053 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: If you have an argument against Okase's offseason last year, 1054 00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:22,719 I would love to hear it, slash read it. 1055 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 2: These are all gonna come in from Australian ips. All 1056 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,360 the criticism will will be from down under. 1057 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,280 Speaker 1: We run at Portland Trail play man last off season 1058 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,239 was so much more interesting than this off seas now 1059 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,239 realizing that now, but the Portland Trailblazers. They drafted Donovan 1060 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,480 Clinging at number seven. They traded a number fourteen, which 1061 00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,679 became Bub Carrington Malcolm Brogden at a twenty twenty nine. First, 1062 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,639 it'll be the second most favorable from Portland, Boston, Milwaukee 1063 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,400 to Washington for Denny Avdia. They traded number forty, which 1064 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,039 was Ohsoegadaro for number fifty two, which was Quinton Post, 1065 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:58,519 which they then traded for cash. So that's minus minus move. Yeah, 1066 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,280 are you willing to include extra mindus. 1067 00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 2: On that I am in special circumstances. 1068 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 1: I am picked up Delano Banton's team option. They had 1069 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,719 Devonte Graham at the minimum and we did not miss 1070 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,199 any major transactions on there and correct double checking, no 1071 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,440 we did not, So we were most of this was 1072 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,760 spent and rightfully so there were some Donovan Klingon questions 1073 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,159 and so I actually want to start there because I 1074 00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:22,599 know you said we shouldn't factor too much of the 1075 00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:25,880 draft picks. I was so out on Donovan Klingon. This 1076 00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:29,079 was not unpredictable. He came in and was fantastic defensively 1077 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,199 for them. There's a lot of questions offensively he did 1078 00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:33,639 he end up making All Rookie I know we had 1079 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,840 him on an all rookie team, doesn't matter. He was 1080 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,440 in the conversation. He played that well. And then the 1081 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,159 other thing too, is we were trying to wrap our 1082 00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:44,039 heads around the Denny Afdia trade because you see a 1083 00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:47,559 team give up a twenty twenty nine first round pick 1084 00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:51,119 and they're the Blazers and they're still in the middle 1085 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:53,000 of a rebuild, in the early middle of a rebuild, 1086 00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:54,800 and you start to Okay, afdi is young, he's on 1087 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,119 a nice contract, but that contract might not be extendable grant, 1088 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,880 So like, is that a trade that matters. It ends 1089 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,360 up looking that move in hindsight. I also think because 1090 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,000 clearly Malcolm Brogden, we wondered, oh, did he have like 1091 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,840 any second round picks multiple value? No, he didn't. Washington 1092 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,280 just let him come off the books. Yep. So, and 1093 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,480 I like bub Carrington, but Denny Havdia is by far 1094 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,800 and away the best asset in this deal and was 1095 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,559 fantastic for sixty seven percent of the season. 1096 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 3: No, I think Klingon did make the All Rookie team. 1097 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,519 By the way, I think Klingon is still tricky just 1098 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,119 I mean from a process perspective, they had forty seven 1099 00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:36,679 centers on the team and we flagged this at the time. 1100 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,199 It's just like is he gonna play? That was a 1101 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,920 big thing, and like, so, okay, maybe this portends they're 1102 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,719 gonna trade all these guys to clear room for him. 1103 00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:45,559 Speaker 2: I don't know. 1104 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,159 Speaker 3: So I don't think the questions we had were unfair. 1105 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,079 It just turned out that he delivered on like literally 1106 00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:55,320 everything that you could have hoped that he would given 1107 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,840 the type of player he is. So, I mean, it 1108 00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,480 just turned out it turned out to be the right pick. 1109 00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:03,679 Speaker 2: You know, That's fine. The Avdia trade is still I 1110 00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:05,679 think I think I'm with you. I love Avdya. 1111 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 3: I think he's a really good player, super underrated, not 1112 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,840 enough people know about him, and he was a star, 1113 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,599 like you said, basically for the entire second half and 1114 00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:17,320 maybe more than that. From a process perspective, you're giving 1115 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,079 up a really late lottery pick and a first even 1116 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:24,840 though it's not like a super useful asset. Like I think, 1117 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,519 maybe this is where it gets foggy, because Portland was 1118 00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:31,639 pretty good last year, so like, I don't know shit, 1119 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,960 does this make sense because Avdia was part of the 1120 00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:37,039 reason for that, but also like the reason they were 1121 00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:39,800 good is because they're young guys got good and and 1122 00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:42,400 drove the winning down the stretch. And Avidya is kind 1123 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,159 of like in the middle of the veteran versus super 1124 00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:47,840 young Scoot Shade and Sharp kind of group. But so 1125 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,079 I think ultimately Island where you do, which is that 1126 00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,400 Avdia is just the best player in this deal, the 1127 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,280 best asset in this deal by a lot and even 1128 00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,280 if you may not be able to extend him, like 1129 00:50:59,679 --> 00:51:02,519 he really matters for a Blazer's team now that I 1130 00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:05,159 think even even a year ago was like we're gonna 1131 00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:07,519 be pretty good because if you don't think that, you 1132 00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:10,480 don't make the Carrington trade. So I think they get 1133 00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:14,920 credit for like seeing what was maybe possible and getting 1134 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,440 Avia on board. So we I mean we were high 1135 00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:20,000 on them, you know. Anyway, relatively speaking, we both had 1136 00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:21,039 him at a B minus. 1137 00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 2: You went to a B plus. I went to a bee. 1138 00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 3: Just Clinging worked out in the Avvia trade. That's I mean, 1139 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,599 those are the main things, right. 1140 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the one thing I just wanted to add 1141 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,119 about Clinging because you mentioned about them having a trillion rosters, uh, 1142 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,079 centers on the roster. But oh man, we have a 1143 00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:39,039 trade to report grant. But well, we're gonna finish our 1144 00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:39,920 Blazers talk first. 1145 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,119 Speaker 2: It must not be a big one. 1146 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,199 Speaker 1: Uh it's Heywood, Hi Smith? Ser Okay, are you okay? 1147 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,039 Speaker 2: I mean I thought he got hurt. 1148 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: He did, but so really quickly. I think it almost 1149 00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:54,159 shows like kind of like how they took Jan Hanson anyway, 1150 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,079 even though they had cling in. There's a level of 1151 00:51:56,119 --> 00:51:57,840 respect to be had, Like if you identified that you 1152 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,280 think is either the best player or someone that can 1153 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,960 really impact your team, and you took clingon anyway, I 1154 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,920 think that there's merit to be had there, But yeah, 1155 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,960 it's the it's the Avia trade, and maybe there's some 1156 00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:10,199 questions about it down the line. But we also talked 1157 00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:13,079 about in that segment Grant, we said, couldn't you just 1158 00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:15,400 see this team being like a league average or better defense? 1159 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,960 They finished seventeenth and we're like top ten for a 1160 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,320 good chunk. So ye, we called their depth, we called 1161 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,760 their defense a plus. Stuff from us is all I'm saying. 1162 00:52:23,039 --> 00:52:25,480 That doesn't change breaking news on a trade that we 1163 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,440 could just talk about since we're here. The Miami Heat, 1164 00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:30,960 per Shamserani, I have traded Hayward high Smith and a twenty 1165 00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:33,199 thirty two second round pick to the Brooklyn Nets for 1166 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,559 a twenty twenty six second round pick. Now my reaction 1167 00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:38,840 to this, I like Hayward high Smith. I'm just sort 1168 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,519 of wondering, like, is this injury worse than weeks? He's 1169 00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:42,960 not the type of player that I would have thought. 1170 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,840 His deal is so cheap that you have to include 1171 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,480 a distant second round pick. I know you're getting one back, 1172 00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:51,239 but this just like, why didn't they get the second 1173 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,480 round pick without including Is his injury that bad? I 1174 00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,519 thought he was only out for eight to twelve weeks. 1175 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 2: Well, what's he making six or seven million something like that? 1176 00:52:58,039 --> 00:52:59,519 It was because he signed two for eleven. 1177 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,679 Speaker 3: Do the Heat need to move exactly that much money 1178 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,840 off the books to do something bigger? Like is that 1179 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,880 I don't have the cap sheet up in front of me. 1180 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,199 That's my first thought is like, oh, what's well, why 1181 00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:10,360 would you come out of the tax? 1182 00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 2: Okay, there it is. That's actually what it is. I think. 1183 00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:17,599 Speaker 1: But that's like a useful So I guess you're really saying, 1184 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,239 when you're looking at Miami's roster, you really trust I 1185 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,679 mean you have Looking defensively, you have Wiggins, Davion Mitchell, 1186 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,000 though he's not really a wing. Maybe this means that 1187 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:32,840 they really have faith in Pellet Larson yeah, Souse, Yeah, okay, 1188 00:53:33,039 --> 00:53:36,079 I would say, and maybe Brooklyn thinks they can flip 1189 00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:38,199 him because he's the type of player that a contender 1190 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,000 might want once he's healthy. At the deadline, I would 1191 00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:41,760 have thought, I would have thought that you could have 1192 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,800 gotten I guess he's injured, so it's rough, but I 1193 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,519 would have thought you could have gotten a finished like 1194 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,760 a plus one in the second round pick department for 1195 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:49,519 Hayward Heighsmith. 1196 00:53:49,519 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 2: That's what I would have thought. 1197 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 1: We could continue regrading though. Just so there's there's the 1198 00:53:55,039 --> 00:53:57,079 off season bomb everyone was waiting for. Do you want 1199 00:53:57,079 --> 00:53:57,840 to take us through? 1200 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,639 Speaker 3: The Utah Jazz, speaking of Bomb, drafted Cody Williams at 1201 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:02,159 number ten. 1202 00:54:02,599 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 2: Sorry, Also, I believe. 1203 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,840 Speaker 1: Summer League made me believe we're back, so back, we 1204 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,960 are so sick. 1205 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:10,719 Speaker 2: You know what. 1206 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,920 Speaker 3: You kind of have to dig in because you were 1207 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,079 so high on him. I think, I think you can't. 1208 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,480 You'd be a fraud if you gave up this early. 1209 00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:19,119 Speaker 2: Even as bad as I. 1210 00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:20,679 Speaker 1: Know that, I say, I think Reed Shepherd is gonna 1211 00:54:20,679 --> 00:54:22,039 be the best player in the draft. And I came 1212 00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:25,920 to that conclusion partly because Cody Williams was number one 1213 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,079 on my big board and it just wasn't working. 1214 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,960 Speaker 2: He quickly proved that he would not take on that title. 1215 00:54:32,639 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 3: That's the final bad thing I'm gonna say about Jalen 1216 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,159 Williams brother. So I only good things from now on. 1217 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,039 The Jazz also kind of offset that because they got 1218 00:54:41,039 --> 00:54:44,000 Isaiah Caller at twenty nine, and he, I mean took 1219 00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:46,239 over a starting job basically by the end of the season. 1220 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,320 Put as much stock in that as you want to. 1221 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,760 Given where Utah was competitively but still and then got 1222 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,760 Kyle Kyle Philipowski a number thirty two, like even better, 1223 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,800 he was the best. 1224 00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:56,840 Speaker 2: Of the Jazz's rules. 1225 00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: He was the best offensive rookie, right. I guess Jared 1226 00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:02,480 McCain had he stayed healthy. But who else was a 1227 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,000 better offensive rookie than Kylee? 1228 00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:06,239 Speaker 3: I mean yeah, just from I don't know of like 1229 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,880 ceiling wise, if I just based on last year, it 1230 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,280 was him. I think it's just so to get him 1231 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,199 in the second round. Great talent identification and great willingness 1232 00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:17,440 to take on a guy who everybody was like weirded 1233 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,719 out by his off court story. Got Drew Eubanks two 1234 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,039 years nine point eight million, traded Chris Dunn. That was 1235 00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:24,800 a sign and trade for Russ, who they bought out. 1236 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,039 Losing Chris done doesn't really matter to them, but the 1237 00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:31,039 upside he provided for another team will affect their grade. 1238 00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:33,440 LORI markin and this is kind of the big one. 1239 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,800 Didn't trade him even though that was kind of one 1240 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,000 of the big subplots of the offseason is where's he 1241 00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:38,480 gonna go? 1242 00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 2: How long are they going to wait to resign him? 1243 00:55:41,559 --> 00:55:42,920 If they do so? 1244 00:55:43,079 --> 00:55:46,760 Speaker 3: They renegotiated and extended his deal his salary went up 1245 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,840 to forty two point two million last season and then 1246 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,639 got four one ninety five on top of that was 1247 00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:55,159 not tradeable based on the timing of when he signed 1248 00:55:55,199 --> 00:55:57,800 it last season. Is tradable now for whatever that's worth. 1249 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,039 Gottzphema Kailak for four years fifteen million that I think 1250 00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:05,000 covers the bulk of Johnny Juzang four years eleven million. 1251 00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:06,320 Speaker 2: One of those is guaranteed. 1252 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,079 Speaker 3: Interesting structure there, But that's about it for Utah. I 1253 00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:13,800 don't know, Like I think most of our grade here 1254 00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:18,039 was the market in stuff and the draft, which we 1255 00:56:18,159 --> 00:56:21,760 definitely liked, just because Collier was a guy that was 1256 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,760 a super highly ranked prospect until he had a rough 1257 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,599 college season, So I was in on that. You like 1258 00:56:28,679 --> 00:56:30,559 Cody Williams a lot. I liked him just fine. 1259 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for reminding me, Yeah, Dan, did you do. 1260 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:34,199 Speaker 2: You remember Cody Williams? 1261 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 3: What you thought about him, just anything in particular? So 1262 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,400 you gave them a C plus. I went B minus. 1263 00:56:43,199 --> 00:56:47,000 We have both dropped those grades. I did it mainly 1264 00:56:47,039 --> 00:56:49,920 because the market in thing just doesn't look better today, 1265 00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:52,960 and I think there were foreseeable reasons why that would 1266 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,679 be the case. But I'll turn it over to you 1267 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,679 to explain what you thought about it. 1268 00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. I'm ultimately just because 1269 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,280 because I think they got good value out of Collier 1270 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,119 and Philipowski. I'm multiply okay with it. And they also 1271 00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:07,239 made like one of the things that we harped on 1272 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,440 rightfully so was they need to be bad enough. And 1273 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,199 it's funny we went through we Grant I both relistened 1274 00:57:14,199 --> 00:57:16,920 to this by the ways three hour podcasts, and we 1275 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,800 talked about, well, this is how many teams we know 1276 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,679 are gonna be better. They're gonna end up being like 1277 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,159 fifth in the lottery. That's what we said. Well, I 1278 00:57:24,199 --> 00:57:26,880 think nail to stuff again from us, but we said 1279 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,360 they needed to be bad to get that top level prospect. 1280 00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:31,440 They ended, No, you couldn't have predicted it. Ace Bailey 1281 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,599 would still be there. You couldn't even predicted their spot. 1282 00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:36,440 They did that, they took the steps to do that, 1283 00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:38,719 and so now did that have anything to do with 1284 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,039 their transaction process. Maybe not. But like one of the 1285 00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:45,400 things that people hemmed and hot over was did renegotiate 1286 00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,880 and extending market and imply something else or would he 1287 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,199 do too much for them to maybe not play someone 1288 00:57:50,239 --> 00:57:53,760 like Philipowski yet points or I think that deal does 1289 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,280 look worse though in hindsight is the trade value they 1290 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,000 could have gotten for him, even as an expiring contract, 1291 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,760 exceeds what they could probably get for him right now. 1292 00:58:03,039 --> 00:58:06,079 But it's not so far below water that he can't 1293 00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:08,800 come out of it. And so this almost feels like 1294 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,639 I'm dinging them for it. But I also it doesn't 1295 00:58:11,719 --> 00:58:14,159 sound like the offers for him were like I would 1296 00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:16,800 need to see. It's like the offers with the I 1297 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,960 hate to continue bringing this up, they're like a pinata 1298 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,079 for us, but the bulls. We know that there were 1299 00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:22,800 two first round picks on the table at some point 1300 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,440 for Alex Caruso. They didn't take that. We don't know 1301 00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:28,239 like there wasn't some four first round pick offer that 1302 00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,000 we heard about for Larry market In. But if there's 1303 00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:33,119 I can't sit here and argued, Oh, that contract looks 1304 00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:35,480 a lot better now that it did this time last year. 1305 00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:39,599 Speaker 3: And I think again trying to stick with like what 1306 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,960 was knowable or like what could you have surmised at 1307 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,840 the time, it like market In was coming off just 1308 00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,079 I mean, actually he's not coming off his best season, 1309 00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:51,880 but it was like, I don't know if he's gonna 1310 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,119 stay at that level, Like, isn't he maybe more valuable 1311 00:58:55,519 --> 00:58:58,079 with a smaller number that you could kind of work 1312 00:58:58,119 --> 00:59:00,920 into any kind of deal. And then also like, again 1313 00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:04,159 they did end up being bad enough, but the deal 1314 00:59:04,199 --> 00:59:07,559 for him, assuming you thought he was gonna play all year, 1315 00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:09,159 which maybe they were like, oh, we're just gonna shut 1316 00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:11,880 him down and get fine for it whatever, Like this 1317 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,320 deal doesn't make sense in the context of we're trying 1318 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,159 to get as bad as we can because he's your 1319 00:59:16,159 --> 00:59:18,039 best player, and you just brought him back and then 1320 00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:20,880 you bumped his salary up to this crazy number that 1321 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,719 now is like probably tradeable for I don't know, even value, 1322 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,079 but you're not like you're not getting the Godfather offer 1323 00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:30,239 anymore for Marketing at this rate, and all of that 1324 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,119 I think was like something you could have seen potentially 1325 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,559 or as like a likelihood even so I dropped him down. 1326 00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:40,599 I do think like overall, I feel like mission accomplished. 1327 00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:43,599 Their record was terrible, but like the Marketing deal just 1328 00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:46,360 doesn't square and looks worse now in a way that like, yeah, 1329 00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:47,440 I'm not surprised. 1330 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,239 Speaker 1: We move on too. Our next team is the Golden State, 1331 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,840 your Golden statere we go, Flip it around, flip the 1332 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,880 cap around, get it done. All right, here we go 1333 00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:02,199 Golden State Warriors. They traded quite Post for Wendy Waters 1334 01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:03,800 the third, but they got Quinton Post backs. 1335 01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,519 Speaker 2: They got him back a plus what a roller coaster. 1336 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Signed the Anthey Mountain for one year twelve point eight 1337 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,599 million dollars. That was the non tax payer mid level 1338 01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:14,519 Kyle Anderson they got for three years twenty seven million. 1339 01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:16,079 It was a sign and trade. It was part of 1340 01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:18,159 the folding to of the Klay Thompson going to Dallas, 1341 01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,559 and they ended up shipping him out. Of course, Buddy 1342 01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:26,039 healed acchoired via sign and trade for Dallas' twenty thirty one. Second, 1343 01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:28,800 he had only two years of his four year deal guaranteed. 1344 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,480 That was nifty Steph Curry signed a one year extension. 1345 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,199 So he's now in the books for through two thousand 1346 01:00:35,239 --> 01:00:38,519 and six and twenty seven. Do we miss any other 1347 01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:41,760 big pieces of business? Oh, the Moses Moody extension was 1348 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,559 not on here. And then Post Quinton Post signed his 1349 01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:47,199 two way after we did the grades, just for just 1350 01:00:47,239 --> 01:00:48,599 for grant, you know, just. 1351 01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:51,639 Speaker 3: To keep as much quintin post content in the in 1352 01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:52,679 the loop as possible. 1353 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,239 Speaker 1: So how do you feel about this now? Grant we 1354 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,079 gave it. We were pretty favorable on what they did. 1355 01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:02,719 We talked a lot about because the mumblings going around 1356 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,039 was they tried to get marketing, they try to get George. 1357 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,000 We can't pay for them to go harder after Paul George. 1358 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,039 At the time, I did not age well, but they 1359 01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:12,320 kept themselves flexible and they made their roster better. We 1360 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,000 talked a lot about the defense one year later. How 1361 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:15,719 do you feeling about this? 1362 01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:18,199 Speaker 3: I think it was I think you can go down 1363 01:01:18,199 --> 01:01:20,719 the list and view, now, look like this is not 1364 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,559 the roster that ended the season. But I think I 1365 01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:26,559 think you can argue that it was kind of by 1366 01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:29,239 not by design, Like I don't I wouldn't say that, 1367 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,239 like they had the crosshairs on Jimmy Butler. 1368 01:01:31,639 --> 01:01:33,239 Speaker 2: All they knew they. 1369 01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:35,760 Speaker 3: Were gonna flip a bunch of guys in Wiggins for Butler, 1370 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,400 like that was the plan. I think they liked this roster. 1371 01:01:39,519 --> 01:01:41,920 They liked the depth, they liked the defense, and they 1372 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,360 got great results with it. 1373 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:44,159 Speaker 2: Early in the season. 1374 01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:46,159 Speaker 3: Remember, all we talked about was the depth and Buddy 1375 01:01:46,199 --> 01:01:50,440 healed can't miss, Like he's like dramatically outperforming Klay Thompson 1376 01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,840 in a similar role like all the. 1377 01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:53,199 Speaker 2: Like, it looked very good. 1378 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,440 Speaker 3: Melton got hurt, healed, cooled off, Anderson just kind of 1379 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,760 generally wasn't helpful, and then they packaged up some contracts 1380 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:00,800 and turned. 1381 01:02:00,639 --> 01:02:01,559 Speaker 2: It into Jimmy Butler. 1382 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,800 Speaker 3: So like, I think it worked pretty well as like 1383 01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,679 a strategy for the full season until injuries and like 1384 01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:11,800 some regression, and then they pivoted because they left themselves 1385 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,559 that out by not going and doing a Paul George 1386 01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:17,079 thing or a marketing thing. They had all these movable deals, 1387 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:18,960 they didn't give up a bunch of picks in a 1388 01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,719 superstar trade, and they do go get Jimmy Butler. So 1389 01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:24,559 I think it looks pretty good from like a just 1390 01:02:24,639 --> 01:02:29,119 preserving optionality standpoint, Like they didn't over commit to risky stuff. 1391 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,360 Maybe that was for you know, not for lack of trying, 1392 01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:34,960 but they didn't make that crazy deal. And then they 1393 01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:36,960 ended up getting Butler, I think for a good price, 1394 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,000 and he turned them into like a very like capable, 1395 01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:43,360 like dangerous playoff team until Steff got hurt. So like, 1396 01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:45,599 I don't know how you move this grade down, not 1397 01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:47,199 saying we are. But I don't know what the argument 1398 01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:48,639 would be for moving it down. 1399 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,719 Speaker 1: I think you could just say, well, could they have 1400 01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:52,679 predicted any of this? And I think to some extent 1401 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,800 saying that George and Marketing had a down season even 1402 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,920 though we didn't predict it, it wasn't unpredictable and so 1403 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,679 they deserve credit for that. And by the way, it's 1404 01:03:00,719 --> 01:03:03,639 also remember when the Pacers simn Bruce Brown in that contract, 1405 01:03:03,639 --> 01:03:05,360 they were able to use him in the Paschal Siakam 1406 01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,320 deal they wind up using They couldn't have predicted DFAML 1407 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,280 would get injured, but he wound up being on a 1408 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,559 deal that they moved to get Dentis shruter, and they 1409 01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:16,079 also ended up moving Kylie Anderson in addition to Dentnis shooter. 1410 01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:18,280 But like it's part of getting their like they're Jimmy 1411 01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:22,159 Butler Transaction Tree. That's those are deals that they signed 1412 01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:25,519 that remained immovable. We're at least digestible enough to get 1413 01:03:25,519 --> 01:03:27,840 things done. And the whole thing is is if you're 1414 01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,360 the Warriors, it's not in that case identifying necessarily a 1415 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,159 specific opportunity, but remaining flexible enough to capitalize on whatever 1416 01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:39,440 opportunity should arise and picking the right one. They apparently 1417 01:03:39,559 --> 01:03:41,960 either passed or didn't go hard enough after Again, we 1418 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,519 were wrong or I was wrong, I should say, I 1419 01:03:43,519 --> 01:03:44,760 think I was a little bit more critical of them 1420 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,039 than you were. We were wrong on that, like they waited, 1421 01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:48,960 and that proved out to be the smart move. So 1422 01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:50,639 I moved my grade up and it was a pretty 1423 01:03:50,639 --> 01:03:53,280 easy decision for me. I went to I had them 1424 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,599 at a B. We both had a B. I put 1425 01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:56,800 them at an A. You put them at an A 1426 01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:57,840 minus because you're a hater. 1427 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,559 Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, No, it's I think you have to. 1428 01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:02,679 They just have to be moved up. 1429 01:04:02,679 --> 01:04:03,360 Speaker 1: I don't. 1430 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:04,599 Speaker 2: I think. 1431 01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:08,760 Speaker 1: Also, we joke turning the number fifty two pick in 1432 01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,880 some variation into Quentin Post. Yeah, that's he's he might 1433 01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,119 start for them next year. 1434 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,599 Speaker 3: So my my affinity for Quinton Post is only like 1435 01:04:17,679 --> 01:04:19,280 ten percent, a bit like the other. 1436 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:20,880 Speaker 2: The other ninety percent. 1437 01:04:20,599 --> 01:04:23,280 Speaker 3: Is sincere and I mean it, and I'm thinking about 1438 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,920 getting a tattoo. No, I just think, I yeah, like 1439 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,599 we we're not gonna overweight the draft, but like, I mean, 1440 01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:33,199 that's just a home that's a home run, Like just 1441 01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:36,400 to get someone that does anything in the fifties. Although 1442 01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,239 even though they traded him and traded him back, like 1443 01:04:38,239 --> 01:04:39,320 that's kind of funny. 1444 01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,360 Speaker 2: But they knew that that's a faculty. They knew, they 1445 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:41,679 saw it. 1446 01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:46,039 Speaker 1: They know, greatness, we continue our job through the Pacific Division. 1447 01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:48,280 We're gonna to eat some crow on this one. Take. Yeah, 1448 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:49,840 here we go to those Clippers. All right. 1449 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,119 Speaker 3: So the Clippers signed Tyleru five year, seventy million. That's 1450 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,960 probably that's right around the going right for coaches now, 1451 01:04:57,159 --> 01:04:59,599 drafted Cam Christy at forty six. James Harden Big News 1452 01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:02,360 to year seventy million. He has since opted out and 1453 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:03,320 signed another. 1454 01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:04,039 Speaker 2: Two year deal. 1455 01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:07,119 Speaker 3: They got Derek Jones three years for thirty. They traded 1456 01:05:07,199 --> 01:05:12,719 Russ and a bunch of stuff for Chris Dunn, win 1457 01:05:13,719 --> 01:05:16,239 Ken Porter Junior two years four point eight. He's on 1458 01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,320 the Bucks now, but Toom two years nine point six 1459 01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:21,000 Bamba on a minimum if eats the Zoobots three years 1460 01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,440 fifty eight point six million. I don't know if this 1461 01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:25,840 was done at the time. I don't feel what it was. 1462 01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:29,039 Speaker 1: It was. We were recorded, like, yeah, yeah it was. 1463 01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:31,320 Speaker 3: And then let I mean, maybe the thing that's not 1464 01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,679 on the screen if you're watching, did not bring back 1465 01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:38,320 Paul George, and we absolutely destroyed them for that, we 1466 01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,800 were both equally guilty. I made the preserve of the asset. 1467 01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:46,079 I made argument. I made the if you know that 1468 01:05:46,199 --> 01:05:48,599 multiple teams, the Warriors and the Sixers are willing to 1469 01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:50,880 pay him this, by definition, you should pay him that 1470 01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:55,039 and then trade him for something because you've got an 1471 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,679 You understand what his market value is because other teams 1472 01:05:57,719 --> 01:05:58,519 have established it. 1473 01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,039 Speaker 2: You brought up the like, if you. 1474 01:06:00,039 --> 01:06:02,480 Speaker 3: Are willing to do this with Kawhi, why aren't you 1475 01:06:02,519 --> 01:06:03,880 willing to do it with Paul George. 1476 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 2: The same deal was on the table. We just from 1477 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:08,519 every angle, we just absolutely murdered him. 1478 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,719 Speaker 3: And we both gave the Clippers an F and they 1479 01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:14,760 did not turn out to perform like a team that 1480 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,360 had an F off season. 1481 01:06:16,679 --> 01:06:19,800 Speaker 1: And it was nothing they did was dumb luck. I 1482 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,159 think you can still make to preserve the asset. Like 1483 01:06:22,199 --> 01:06:25,679 the whole extension negotiation process, to me, knowing the information 1484 01:06:25,719 --> 01:06:27,599 they had on Paul George, were they gonna guess that 1485 01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:29,280 his season would look like what it did in Philly? 1486 01:06:29,519 --> 01:06:32,159 I don't think so, But they seem pretty adamant about 1487 01:06:32,199 --> 01:06:34,719 going their short term route, and we were saying why 1488 01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:36,280 even trade for James Harden if there was a chance 1489 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,559 that you were gonna let Paul George walk. You apparently 1490 01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:41,039 had a very specific timeline in mind. It was risky, 1491 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,920 make no mistake, but you ended up making it work. 1492 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,719 And I think the merits of the Zobots ex and 1493 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:48,599 everyone who's watching on YouTube ig nore. I forgot to 1494 01:06:48,679 --> 01:06:50,599 change the graphic on a Clipper side. Bradley Bual is 1495 01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:52,320 in there. It's fine. I mean they wouldn't have been 1496 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,000 in a position to get Bradley. All roads lead to 1497 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,639 Bradley Beal, so a home run off season for them, 1498 01:06:59,679 --> 01:07:02,199 and like that Zubot's extension. I actually was just writing 1499 01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:05,159 about the most underrated players over the half decade, and 1500 01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,760 this is it's some like you take into account stats, 1501 01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,239 but I honestly believe like Zubots was number one for me. 1502 01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:13,679 He just last year he got some defensive recognition, but 1503 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,639 last year felt like the first season at any point 1504 01:07:16,679 --> 01:07:19,400 in his career that he ever got even close to 1505 01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,039 the amount of expect that he reserves. To have him 1506 01:07:21,039 --> 01:07:23,800 on that extension where you're paying your starting center, what 1507 01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,760 is that in terms of the salary cap like ten percent? 1508 01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,159 Nine percent eight percent, it's nothing. 1509 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,719 Speaker 2: Do you think so we both you went to an 1510 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,920 A plus, I went to an A. Do you think 1511 01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:38,320 what else would you like them? Well, here's what, here's. 1512 01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:42,960 Speaker 3: Here's the thing, my my hesitance, hesitation. I guess, uh, 1513 01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,400 how much of what happened with the Clippers last year 1514 01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:49,800 was like like I don't know, like James Harden was 1515 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:51,480 an All Star again for the first time in like 1516 01:07:51,559 --> 01:07:55,159 four or five seasons, and like Kawai kind of had 1517 01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:58,320 a pretty standard Kawhi season. But zubots it's not a 1518 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,800 late career leap, but it's a leap a time in 1519 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,039 his career that's kind of like, well, that's we were 1520 01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:06,159 surprised that he I was surprised that he reached the 1521 01:08:06,239 --> 01:08:10,000 level that he did. The defense was incredible, Like, it's 1522 01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:12,280 just the only reason I don't go a plus is 1523 01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,199 I think some of this was just like such like 1524 01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,279 a high like a ninety ninth percentile outcome from like 1525 01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:21,960 a luck perspective. So they're just enough of that in 1526 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,640 there to where the process was great. They're getting an A. 1527 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,560 But I can't go all the way to A plus 1528 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:28,439 just like, first of all, because the thunder exists, and 1529 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,520 I don't want to cheapen the A plus by giving 1530 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,000 a similar grade to the Clippers, But do you know 1531 01:08:33,039 --> 01:08:35,640 what I mean, Like I think some of this, some 1532 01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:40,880 of this was a little lucky. Like again, like they 1533 01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:42,920 were in a position to know what Paul George's health 1534 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,399 future might look like better than anybody, and so maybe 1535 01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:47,119 they were just they just bet right. 1536 01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,319 Speaker 2: But also like Paul George had. 1537 01:08:49,239 --> 01:08:52,319 Speaker 3: The season from hell, and I don't know, like if 1538 01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:55,680 he had if he had had a fringe all star season, 1539 01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:58,560 is this is you know, I don't know. It just 1540 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,880 there's some amount of results based luck involved here to 1541 01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,479 the point that I'm not ready to get there with 1542 01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:04,319 you on the A plus. 1543 01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:09,319 Speaker 1: It's it's funny about the how to wait results versus process, 1544 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,720 But I just don't the results matter of course we have. 1545 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:14,359 Speaker 2: That's the thing. 1546 01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:16,640 Speaker 3: It just makes this tricky because this is the bottom 1547 01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,199 line league, right, Like your record is what matters. 1548 01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:20,760 Speaker 2: That is the definitive result. 1549 01:09:21,159 --> 01:09:24,800 Speaker 3: But I just think if we're grading like they're thinking, 1550 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,159 it's was great, it's getting an A. 1551 01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 2: But there's just that like. 1552 01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,960 Speaker 3: Harden really like I did not like I can't believe 1553 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,039 you had the season you had last year. I was 1554 01:09:35,039 --> 01:09:38,079 like pay Paul George. Let Harden go like, don't that's 1555 01:09:38,199 --> 01:09:38,439 I mean? 1556 01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:39,720 Speaker 2: I was wrong. I was very wrong. 1557 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:41,720 Speaker 1: Well that that's a weird take to have when they 1558 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,800 clearly didn't have like another floor general. 1559 01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:45,680 Speaker 3: I didn't care. I was just that low on Harden. 1560 01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:49,039 This wasn't a lot of thought that. 1561 01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:51,319 Speaker 1: I think you just like made the strongest argument of 1562 01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:52,640 you moving up to an A plus. 1563 01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,880 Speaker 2: Maybe I did. We should probably move on before I 1564 01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,439 keep continue arguing with this though. 1565 01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:01,840 Speaker 1: We're onto the Los Angeles Lakers, and they fired Darvin Ham. 1566 01:10:02,159 --> 01:10:04,760 They hired JJ Reddick a four years, thirty two million 1567 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,119 was the estimate on his contract. They drafted Dalton Connect 1568 01:10:07,159 --> 01:10:10,159 at number seventeen. They drafted Bronni James at number fifty five, 1569 01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:13,560 and game a three year guaranteed deal, Max Christy four years, 1570 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,079 thirty two million dollars deal with a player option on 1571 01:10:16,079 --> 01:10:18,880 the final season. We were not happy about that. Lebron's 1572 01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,399 signed a two year uh att one oh one point 1573 01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,640 three to five million dollar deal, had a player option 1574 01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,319 that he did not use because the Lakers don't fucking 1575 01:10:26,359 --> 01:10:30,600 want him anymore. Apparently that's that they did not do 1576 01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,920 any major piece of business after that. And look That 1577 01:10:33,079 --> 01:10:36,600 was part of why we didn't love their offseason. We 1578 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,840 thought that they could stand to be more aggressive. They 1579 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,680 were on Lebron James's and Anthony Davis's timeline. The center 1580 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,920 position was a wreck, aside from Anthony Davis, who we 1581 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,600 all know doesn't want it, Like just the backup five 1582 01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,079 thing was a mess. It felt like they needed two 1583 01:10:51,119 --> 01:10:55,159 more wings, but they were patient and it paid off 1584 01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,359 for And it wasn't just a Luca trade like they 1585 01:10:57,359 --> 01:11:01,239 traded for Dorrian Finney Smith fairly early on. So if 1586 01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,520 they had given up other stuff or made other moves, 1587 01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,119 would they have been able to do that. This was 1588 01:11:07,159 --> 01:11:09,039 a tough one for me because we were not fans 1589 01:11:09,039 --> 01:11:09,600 in real time. 1590 01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,039 Speaker 2: Grant, no, we were not. 1591 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:15,000 Speaker 3: I think it's easy to forget now, but I think 1592 01:11:15,039 --> 01:11:18,159 like one of the defining narratives of last offseason was 1593 01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:20,520 the discussion, and we had this discussion on that pod. 1594 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,640 I think, of of the Warriors and Lakers, who deserves 1595 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,279 the most criticism for not going all in for it? 1596 01:11:26,359 --> 01:11:28,279 And we actually landed on the Lakers, which is part 1597 01:11:28,279 --> 01:11:30,720 of the reason we gave them an f They just 1598 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,880 you got Anthony Davis, You've got Lebron. We also I 1599 01:11:34,079 --> 01:11:37,079 at least I constantly pointed out, like there's no way 1600 01:11:37,279 --> 01:11:39,880 they both play as often as they did the year before, 1601 01:11:40,359 --> 01:11:43,800 so you neat now maybe you're drawing dead if one 1602 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,680 or the other gets hurt. Anyway, So if there's some 1603 01:11:46,279 --> 01:11:47,800 I don't know, you could counter with that, but like 1604 01:11:48,399 --> 01:11:50,439 you gotta go now because these guys are old and 1605 01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,279 injury prone, and just like what are you doing if 1606 01:11:53,359 --> 01:11:55,239 Lebron's on your team and you're not going for it? 1607 01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,960 So I stand by the f because they really didn't 1608 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,239 go for it, I think, And if the Luca thing, 1609 01:12:02,119 --> 01:12:04,319 you're right, like, had they gone for it, you don't 1610 01:12:04,319 --> 01:12:06,880 get Luca. They didn't know they were gonna get Luca. Like, 1611 01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,159 there's just there's no way that's a factor in there. 1612 01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,439 I don't know, in them being kind of circumspect and 1613 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,960 their spending and there in their trading. I just I'm 1614 01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:17,680 not going I'm gonna need to see like a report 1615 01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,520 that proves they knew that was a possibility down the 1616 01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,920 line before. I credit them for keeping the powder dry. 1617 01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:28,560 So that said, the Reddick higher looks good. And on 1618 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,920 the lesser scale, you mentioned the Finney Smith move, like 1619 01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,520 that being patient got them that guy that maybe they 1620 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,399 you know that that was a smart one. 1621 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,520 Speaker 1: They weren't gonna sign anybody as good as doing Finny Smith, 1622 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:40,159 I guess was more so my point like that was 1623 01:12:40,279 --> 01:12:44,600 true too so and also the Max Christie deal ended 1624 01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,359 up like being really really good. 1625 01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think even if you don't trade him, 1626 01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,720 I think he's just he's better than that money. 1627 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:52,119 Speaker 2: I give it if you believe in his. 1628 01:12:52,119 --> 01:12:54,960 Speaker 3: Upside, which I which I do. So f's to start 1629 01:12:55,039 --> 01:12:56,720 for both of us. You moved them to a C. 1630 01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:58,680 I went to a D, so we both moved up. 1631 01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,560 I still just in like, I don't know from a 1632 01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,000 process perspective, I don't understand being like super careful. They 1633 01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,079 got Lebron at a discount he took like too many 1634 01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:09,600 of you know what a plus good job guys it. 1635 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,000 Speaker 1: Was they made. You're right about that. It easily could 1636 01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,279 be lower. But I go back and there's moves I liked, 1637 01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:16,000 And then there are moves that when you look at 1638 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,520 the results, they could not have predicted the Luka Doncics thing, 1639 01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,479 So you don't know how to wait that. And there 1640 01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,439 are moves that are just bad or non moves that 1641 01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:26,800 look questionable or I think that the secondary big rotation, 1642 01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:28,800 let's say, is the most egregious thing of it all, 1643 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,359 but like it just felt you look back at. I 1644 01:13:32,359 --> 01:13:36,159 don't think the offseason stood out particularly for the reasons 1645 01:13:36,199 --> 01:13:38,199 that we were expecting it to. They still came in, 1646 01:13:38,199 --> 01:13:41,439 they won almost fifty eight up fifty eight, almost fifty games. 1647 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,319 This was a tough one for me. I see where 1648 01:13:43,319 --> 01:13:45,279 you're coming from to where it's you didn't know you 1649 01:13:45,319 --> 01:13:47,000 were gonna be on the Luca timeline, so you should 1650 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:48,840 have done more to go all in on Lebron and ad. 1651 01:13:49,279 --> 01:13:52,880 I also don't know what opportunity they passed on, Like 1652 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,439 when we were talking we identified some, but when they 1653 01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,119 go and get Dorn Fanny Smith after that, that seemed 1654 01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:00,319 like a more appealing road to travel down of the 1655 01:14:00,319 --> 01:14:02,840 things that we we were talking about. Zack Lavine, we 1656 01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:03,880 were talking about straight young. 1657 01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:06,760 Speaker 2: I forgot about that. I was really trying to get 1658 01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,880 Zack Lavine to the Lakers. I don't know why. 1659 01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,960 Speaker 1: So it's just like we were talking about that. Oh, 1660 01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,479 because they do something while keeping Austin Reeves, and not 1661 01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,960 only they do something, they got Dory Dory Finny Smith 1662 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,359 and Luca and Austin Reeves is still on the team. Yeah, 1663 01:14:19,359 --> 01:14:22,680 you would have told me that happened. Uh So, it's 1664 01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,680 the process definitely questionable. I'm not denied like they stumbled 1665 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,720 into that because you could easily say, hey, they didn't 1666 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:31,760 do anything, and had they traded that both of their picks, 1667 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,920 they wouldn't been able to get Luca. There was just 1668 01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:37,279 that was the single most surprising trade in NBA history. 1669 01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:40,000 Speaker 3: Right, it's an A plus result and it's just like 1670 01:14:40,079 --> 01:14:43,640 you lucked into it because Nico Harrison only talked to 1671 01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,960 Rob Polinka like, I don't know how you've that's not 1672 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:46,720 a process thing. 1673 01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,960 Speaker 1: We are going to wrap up this exercise, Grant, not yet, 1674 01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,760 because we have two teams left and I can't count. 1675 01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,039 You want to take us through the Phoenix Suns. 1676 01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,560 Speaker 3: All right, so the Sun's Uh boy, this feels like 1677 01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,680 a million years ago. They fired for Vogel and then 1678 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,199 they hired Mike Budenholzer paid him ten million dollars a 1679 01:15:03,279 --> 01:15:06,000 year and he is not the coach anymore. So they 1680 01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:08,119 also traded that. This is the flip side of the 1681 01:15:08,119 --> 01:15:10,920 Denver trade. They get Ryan Dunn and Kevin mccallor for 1682 01:15:11,159 --> 01:15:16,359 Doron Holmes, and they also got a second two seconds 1683 01:15:16,359 --> 01:15:18,680 trying to Royce O'Neil got four years and forty two. 1684 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,439 Tyas Jones got a minimum, Bull Bull got a minimum. 1685 01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,560 Plumb lea minimum, Morris Monte Morris a minimum, Damian Lee 1686 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,319 a minimum, a Kogi two year, sixteen million. 1687 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:29,680 Speaker 1: Uh, that's all the. 1688 01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:35,439 Speaker 3: Big stuff, right am, I forgetting anything? So we this 1689 01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:39,000 is an instructive thing. A lot of minimum signings we 1690 01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,640 were good with. We liked Royce O'Neal getting sort of 1691 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,960 an inflated number because oh, that's tradable. They're creating assets. Also, 1692 01:15:46,039 --> 01:15:49,199 they got a Gudaro in a trade for a couple 1693 01:15:49,199 --> 01:15:52,159 of like late second rounders. Basically we like Igudaro could 1694 01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:53,720 not have known he was going to be something at 1695 01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,680 the time, so we were fairly high on them. You 1696 01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:59,800 gave them an A. I gave him a B plus 1697 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,720 and uh, the lesson is, don't pay attention to minimums. 1698 01:16:04,039 --> 01:16:07,119 Speaker 2: Uh, don't hire Mike Budenholzer and. 1699 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,840 Speaker 3: Uh that's kind of it, right, Like it's just the 1700 01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,640 minimums didn't work out. The chemistry of the Stars, which 1701 01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,000 is not an off season grade thing, just never made 1702 01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,640 any sense. I don't know, like we've I went to 1703 01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:21,840 a D you went to a D plus. What if 1704 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:23,880 you had to fixate on one thing, what was the 1705 01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:25,880 biggest reason you dropped their grade? 1706 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:29,119 Speaker 1: Buttonholzer, that's a that's a really bad move. The fact that, 1707 01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:31,039 like we liked the move at the time, but if 1708 01:16:31,079 --> 01:16:34,199 there was like to hire someone even if you can't 1709 01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:37,560 say it was totally unpredictable because we've seen stuff go 1710 01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:41,520 awry in Phoenix and on Kevin Durant's teams before. But 1711 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,319 the other thing here is we liked that they it 1712 01:16:44,399 --> 01:16:46,560 seemed like they were able to get so much done 1713 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,199 when they just did not have the tools to do it. 1714 01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,079 And I think you can even look at the ties 1715 01:16:51,239 --> 01:16:53,920 Jones of it all, it's just well, what was the 1716 01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,760 point of getting him, Like, what was just the pointment 1717 01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,039 the way you used him, or what the type of 1718 01:16:59,039 --> 01:17:00,640 sense he made on your team? What was the point 1719 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,399 of getting him? So they did they didn't make. But 1720 01:17:03,399 --> 01:17:05,439 none of those moves are detrimental because of just the 1721 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,319 low opportunity cost of them. I think you could also 1722 01:17:08,399 --> 01:17:10,680 Ryan Dunn was a find and so maybe they could 1723 01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,239 go down to like a C minus or something. But 1724 01:17:12,279 --> 01:17:15,960 I really think there's honestly, I don't know that you 1725 01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,520 could overstate just how bad it is that you hired 1726 01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,479 a new head coach and had to get rid of 1727 01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,039 him immediately. Whether that was predictable or not, that is 1728 01:17:25,279 --> 01:17:26,760 cataclysmically awful. 1729 01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 3: And I mean we didn't or I didn't predict because 1730 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,239 I remember saying, look like at the very least what 1731 01:17:34,279 --> 01:17:37,520 we know about Budenholzer, like the playoff track record is 1732 01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,960 what it is, but like he's going to install systems 1733 01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,119 on both ends, this thing is going to be organized. 1734 01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:44,119 Like that's kind of what he does, is like he'll 1735 01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:48,560 get things functioning on both ends during the regular season, 1736 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,760 and that did not happen at all. It was highly dysfunctional, 1737 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,520 and in hindsight, given the way things fell apart in Milwaukee, 1738 01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:59,000 I mean like it was kind of like the Suns 1739 01:17:59,039 --> 01:18:00,600 didn't have a ton of options. 1740 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,800 Speaker 2: I can't even remember who I would have preferred. 1741 01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:06,920 Speaker 3: They'd hired, but like there was a little more risk, 1742 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,079 and the budenholes were higher. I think even in the 1743 01:18:09,159 --> 01:18:13,840 regular season. Then maybe we thought and maybe the Sun 1744 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,640 and the Suns maybe should have foreseen some of that, 1745 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,079 because like the Milwaukee thing ended as badly as it 1746 01:18:18,119 --> 01:18:21,159 can end, and just like, well, no, he's he's he's 1747 01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:23,479 gonna be great. Like, I don't know, that feels like 1748 01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:25,000 pretty flawed logic in hindsight. 1749 01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just again, even if you couldn't like the 1750 01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,960 whole theory of this team just never even came close 1751 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,680 to cole lacing, and you effectively took this shouldn't be 1752 01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,960 part of the grade. But you took two shots with 1753 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,079 Frank Vogel and Mike Punelser. You missed both times. Yep. Insane. 1754 01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:46,960 Now we're gonna wrap things up with your sacra mento. Kings. Uh, 1755 01:18:47,239 --> 01:18:50,159 they did some stuff. Mike Brown got a three year 1756 01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:52,840 and thirty million dollar extension. He now coaches the Knicks. 1757 01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:56,560 They drafted Devin Carter at number thirteen. They traded Sasha 1758 01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,960 Vazen Gov wanted out of the NBA, Davion Mitchell number 1759 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:01,199 forty five, who was Jamal shed and Portland's twenty twenty 1760 01:19:01,239 --> 01:19:03,319 five second for Jale McDaniels. Just one of like the 1761 01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,520 under the radar got awful trades that. 1762 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:07,319 Speaker 2: Were really bad. 1763 01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:09,800 Speaker 3: Any one of those assets for McDaniels would have been 1764 01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,000 a miss right alone, all of them. 1765 01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:14,800 Speaker 1: Malik Monk for they did it for financial reasons, but 1766 01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,960 spare me, Malik Monk four year, seventy eight million dollars 1767 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,000 as a player offs on the final season win OBH 1768 01:19:20,079 --> 01:19:23,680 twenty nine. Damar DeRozan got three years seventy three point 1769 01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,439 nine million, only a ten million dollar partial guarantee one 1770 01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,560 year three. That was a sign and trade that cost 1771 01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,920 them Harrison Barnes, Chris Duarte, a twenty thirty one first 1772 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,880 round swap, a twenty twenty five second rounder, twenty twenty 1773 01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,880 eight second rounder, and cash signed Alex Lynn. They had 1774 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:42,000 Jordan McLoughlin, Isaac Jones they signed, they signed as well, 1775 01:19:42,039 --> 01:19:45,560 and he's still on the roster. We there was we 1776 01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:50,159 were okay with this offseason, but we had questions about 1777 01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,600 DeRozan's fit, whether he checked enough of the boxes that 1778 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,039 they had problems with. We lamented the backup center situation. 1779 01:19:55,119 --> 01:19:57,000 They did go and address that at the trade deadline, 1780 01:19:57,039 --> 01:20:01,840 only to undo it al season. Where are you just 1781 01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,920 you're looking back at this and here's before I throw 1782 01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:07,119 it to you. The two things that I think really 1783 01:20:07,159 --> 01:20:09,399 stand out to me. I don't think we can grade 1784 01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:11,680 the Devin Carter pick just yet. There's no one. There 1785 01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:13,600 were some players drafted after hims, like, oh, that would 1786 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,760 have been better, like what they've done now, it's too soon. 1787 01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,600 He was injured for last year. But like Mike Brown, 1788 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,479 that negotiation, we noted it was awful in real time, 1789 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,680 the way it was leaked, how it was they were 1790 01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:28,680 at a stalemate. This is all we're offering. And I 1791 01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:31,199 like Vivek and the way he negotiates with coaches, and 1792 01:20:31,239 --> 01:20:33,760 just the way he've used this roster and even the 1793 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:35,880 people he puts in place. It feels like he's pulling 1794 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,279 puppet strings and then he all of a sudden dislikes them. 1795 01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:40,920 It's just it's a mess, like top to bottom, just 1796 01:20:41,159 --> 01:20:43,399 a mess in the front office structure there, the leadership 1797 01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:47,760 structure off the court. If you had any inkling, as 1798 01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,600 Vivek that you were going to get rid of Mike Brown, 1799 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,680 or you could envision a point. I know coaches don't 1800 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,600 count against the cap. You do it in the off 1801 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:59,239 season where you were negotiating the contract, rather than upheaving 1802 01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,840 your entire team in the middle of the year and 1803 01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,000 then allowing too much of the blame to fall on 1804 01:21:05,039 --> 01:21:07,880 de Aaron Fox Visa via the rumor mill. The other 1805 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,039 thing that just stands out here, and this is more 1806 01:21:10,079 --> 01:21:14,560 of a macro thing, the Marta Rosen deal looked fine, 1807 01:21:15,079 --> 01:21:17,960 yeah when you were doing this in no but when 1808 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,239 you were doing this in real time and now there 1809 01:21:21,359 --> 01:21:27,079 is no move that they inarguably won, you could make 1810 01:21:27,079 --> 01:21:30,720 the case they lost basically every single decision that they 1811 01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:36,680 made last summer. That is bonkers ineptitude. I just that's 1812 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,399 I they're poor fans. You went from this light to 1813 01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:41,800 beam era to now you then shot that beam right 1814 01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,560 in your fans's eyes, and which good for them, they 1815 01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:45,840 won't have to watch these games anymore. This is just 1816 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,760 like I it was the Marta ros and thing, like, yeah, 1817 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,520 they kind of needed a player who did that, but 1818 01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,760 they needed so much to just triple down on this 1819 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:58,000 look and then liked Aaron Fox, that trade doesn't come 1820 01:21:58,039 --> 01:22:00,760 out of nowhere, that there was something going on behind it. 1821 01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:04,359 To not address that over the off season, that's another 1822 01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:05,760 loss here to me. Anyway. 1823 01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:10,520 Speaker 3: I know, I think I think the Brown I don't know, Mishandling. 1824 01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,800 Does Deern Fox ask for a trade if if Mike 1825 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:19,279 Brown uh one stays on as coach or if he 1826 01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:21,960 moves in the off season and like a Saner you know, 1827 01:22:22,119 --> 01:22:25,119 like more functional, like like like a normal franchise might do. 1828 01:22:25,239 --> 01:22:28,920 Like you said, I don't know, do you follow up 1829 01:22:29,039 --> 01:22:31,600 do the Kings? Are the Kings better off without Fox 1830 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,439 as he ages and gets more expensive? I don't know, Uh, 1831 01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:36,399 but you certainly had to trade him from a position 1832 01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:39,039 of weakness, and I think that's kind of the key, right, 1833 01:22:39,159 --> 01:22:42,000 Like all of this led to in one way or another, 1834 01:22:42,039 --> 01:22:45,079 you losing your best player, a player that like everybody 1835 01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:48,520 liked uh in Sacramento, and you had to deal him 1836 01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,520 following a trade demand that like wrecked your potential return. 1837 01:22:52,319 --> 01:22:56,439 DeRozan is, like we we agree, like I we neither 1838 01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,119 of us, I think are huge fans of what DeRozan does, 1839 01:22:59,199 --> 01:23:01,800 especially like in terms of contributing to a winning. 1840 01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,119 Speaker 1: Team, especially to this team, this type of team. 1841 01:23:05,199 --> 01:23:08,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't doesn't fit wrong play, but like the 1842 01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:10,600 price was fine like that that's okay. 1843 01:23:11,079 --> 01:23:12,399 Speaker 2: I think I think. 1844 01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:16,119 Speaker 3: Maybe the lesson going forward to learn is even if 1845 01:23:16,159 --> 01:23:18,039 the price is pretty good, you have to focus on 1846 01:23:18,079 --> 01:23:20,479 the player type and just like does he is he 1847 01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,239 going to be helpful here? And I think the King's 1848 01:23:22,279 --> 01:23:26,119 totally like he's adding DeRozan and later Levine, who's. 1849 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:27,079 Speaker 2: Not an off season acquisition. 1850 01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:29,960 Speaker 3: But like, just to further the point, the Kings just 1851 01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:33,600 like have the market cornered or like, are I don't know, 1852 01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,439 elite at targeting the wrong kinds of players to like 1853 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,399 get where they think they want to go. They just 1854 01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,199 and DeRozan is a perfect example of that. 1855 01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:44,279 Speaker 1: Here's the other thing too, The price for Derozen officially 1856 01:23:44,399 --> 01:23:47,159 wasn't fine. You don't give up control of a distant 1857 01:23:47,159 --> 01:23:48,960 first round pick if you have any inkling that the 1858 01:23:49,039 --> 01:23:50,520 d Aaron Fox situation is gonna go on. 1859 01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:52,720 Speaker 2: Okay, sure, yeah, I agree. I agree with that. I agree. 1860 01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,000 Speaker 3: And then maybe another failing we can attribute to them 1861 01:23:55,039 --> 01:23:58,199 is not knowing that Fox was kind of like clearly 1862 01:23:58,239 --> 01:23:59,800 at a point where he was at least thinking about 1863 01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,119 it future. Right, You don't just suddenly wake up in 1864 01:24:02,279 --> 01:24:04,920 January and decide, you know what, things are kind of 1865 01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,760 messy here, like like certainly you should have known that 1866 01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:11,439 Fox had his antenna up way before this. So yeah, 1867 01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:13,520 it's I don't know, let's do you have anything else 1868 01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,600 to add? We should just jump to we we go ahead. 1869 01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:17,640 Speaker 1: We kind of now just have proof. And I know 1870 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,159 this is delving into this off season a little bit, 1871 01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:21,359 but like they don't when they need to carve out money, 1872 01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,319 and I have to imagine it's Vivek like he was 1873 01:24:24,359 --> 01:24:25,960 owning the team when they did that all that shit 1874 01:24:26,039 --> 01:24:27,880 to get Rondo, right, he was still thinking. 1875 01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,199 Speaker 3: So at that point, I think, so the Kenny like 1876 01:24:30,279 --> 01:24:32,640 Kenny Thomas and sixers and like gave up two first 1877 01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:33,920 so they can sign Rondo. 1878 01:24:34,119 --> 01:24:37,479 Speaker 1: Now, smaller scale here, but like the Azankoff Davey and 1879 01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,640 Mitchell number forty five pick thing just to get Jalen 1880 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,279 McDaniels and like save money that way. And then this 1881 01:24:43,359 --> 01:24:47,680 summer all for Dennis Shrewder another just like yeah, I 1882 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,199 go from Valley again. Smaller scale, but we now kind 1883 01:24:51,239 --> 01:24:54,239 of just have evidence that when they need to create flexibility, 1884 01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,960 they have no idea what the fuck they're doing. 1885 01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:00,439 Speaker 3: I look and like we can just grade owner. We 1886 01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:03,920 can just grade Vivek because like the Kings have been 1887 01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,880 a disaster with like a tiny blip of success for 1888 01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,359 his entire tenure, and he's the only constant now because 1889 01:25:10,359 --> 01:25:13,199 they've changed executives and coaches one hundred times like that. 1890 01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:15,760 It's just he's he's it. He's the reason the Kings 1891 01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:17,920 are the way they are. So B minus for u 1892 01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:20,479 C plus for me. Last summer you bumped them to 1893 01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,159 an F. I went down to a d uh. And 1894 01:25:23,239 --> 01:25:27,359 maybe I'm being generous just to offset my typical overly 1895 01:25:27,359 --> 01:25:30,640 critical nature towards the Kings, but just like a pretty. 1896 01:25:30,359 --> 01:25:32,319 Speaker 2: Big failure and now looking at. 1897 01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:34,720 Speaker 3: Where they are today, like in terms of what their 1898 01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,880 outlook is for the next five years, good look like 1899 01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:39,960 I don't know if there's there's not many teams that 1900 01:25:40,199 --> 01:25:43,640 maybe the Sixers like that have fallen as much as 1901 01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,279 the Kings have in that sense, right Like, It's just 1902 01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,479 it's bleak as hell now, And like a year ago, 1903 01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:51,079 there was still some hope that yeh, I don't know, 1904 01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:52,880 maybe there'll be eighth or ninth in the West. Now 1905 01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,520 it's just like this seems going nowhere for a long time, 1906 01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:56,359 and it. 1907 01:25:56,359 --> 01:25:59,000 Speaker 1: Was It's just they made me yell. I was trying 1908 01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:01,000 to keep a measure approach. When I always yell about 1909 01:26:01,039 --> 01:26:02,840 one team when we do some type of grades, I get, 1910 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:06,600 I get all yelly and screamy, but I just the 1911 01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,199 Martin Rosen thing is just what can you get value 1912 01:26:09,239 --> 01:26:11,199 for him when you I don't think his deal looks terrible. 1913 01:26:11,279 --> 01:26:14,560 But it's not like teams are gonna be barreling down 1914 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,800 the door to go out and get him right now. 1915 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,359 I just this was it ends up being that. It 1916 01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,079 really it all comes back to the d Aaron Fox thing, 1917 01:26:22,319 --> 01:26:24,039 Like I know the Mike Brown stuff is weird there, 1918 01:26:24,039 --> 01:26:25,760 but if there was, just if you didn't know that 1919 01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,680 you had Daron Fox locked down. Basically most of these 1920 01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,319 offseason moves should not have taken place. 1921 01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:33,840 Speaker 3: You know the other thing too, just to be consistent, 1922 01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,960 Like we're trying to evaluate what a team's goals were 1923 01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:39,760 and how to you know one was that the right goal? 1924 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,439 And two did they like act in a way that 1925 01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:46,279 furthered that goal? The King's goal last offseason was what 1926 01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,079 they thought they were going to improve. They thought they 1927 01:26:50,079 --> 01:26:52,520 were gonna be more dangerous as a playoff team. That's 1928 01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:54,640 why we need Derosen we need we need a mid 1929 01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,520 range scorer to offset our non spacing center and point 1930 01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,399 guard who can shoot once every three years. Like from 1931 01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:03,000 a process, it's just another way of saying DeRozan is 1932 01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,960 the absolute wrong guy for this team, and they specialize 1933 01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:06,560 in getting it. 1934 01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:08,159 Speaker 1: Does it feel do you think that we got a 1935 01:27:08,199 --> 01:27:10,159 case of group think? We saw so many people like 1936 01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,399 insisting it was fine that we should have harsh like 1937 01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,560 more harshly critiqued it in real time. 1938 01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,960 Speaker 3: I'll be honest, like I'm sensitive to believe it or not. 1939 01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:21,680 I try not to be overly critical of the Kings 1940 01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,760 because I know I have a reputation of just burying 1941 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,079 them no matter what they do, and so I think 1942 01:27:26,119 --> 01:27:28,239 I was probably subject to that where I was like, 1943 01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,079 I don't like the DeRozan thing. 1944 01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:32,920 Speaker 2: I'll just it's it's the price is fine. 1945 01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,920 Speaker 3: And I think maybe I went the other way where 1946 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,560 it's just like, yeah, like we kind of what you're saying, 1947 01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,319 Like I'm trying. I'm trying not to seem like I'm 1948 01:27:40,399 --> 01:27:43,840 biased against the Kings, and so like I'll err, i'll 1949 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,199 be too charitable. Sometimes I think I don't know, maybe 1950 01:27:46,199 --> 01:27:48,439 maybe that doesn't come across, but I that's part of 1951 01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:49,279 my thought process. 1952 01:27:49,359 --> 01:27:49,800 Speaker 2: It shouldn't. 1953 01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:51,600 Speaker 1: But what would you have said about the price paid 1954 01:27:52,079 --> 01:27:54,720 for duro? Oh, look at that grant take the victory 1955 01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:58,680 lap you want to, Yeah, the only chat I'll put 1956 01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:03,560 up on screen? What would you have said about the 1957 01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,319 Demarge Rosen trade had you known dearon Fox was gonna 1958 01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:11,640 leave just that swap was in there, would you have like. 1959 01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,520 Speaker 3: Colossal mistake because you should reset, you should start over 1960 01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,399 if Fox is leaving it they should have traded some 1961 01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,640 bonus if they could have, Like, I like you, this 1962 01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:23,720 team is this is it's it's sorry, we haven't brought 1963 01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:26,000 this up yet. This is bulls West like this is 1964 01:28:26,039 --> 01:28:27,039 the same kind. 1965 01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:30,399 Speaker 1: Of thing almost literally, yeah, trade no, right there, that's 1966 01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:30,960 a problem. 1967 01:28:31,079 --> 01:28:32,239 Speaker 2: That's a problem. 1968 01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:37,159 Speaker 3: I think it's fine. Everything's fine. It's fine, meme, everything's fine. 1969 01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:39,239 Speaker 1: Do you have anything else? Are you ready to take 1970 01:28:39,319 --> 01:28:39,600 us out? 1971 01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:41,520 Speaker 2: We should under an hour and a half. 1972 01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:44,399 Speaker 3: Look, we could do another tight ninety on the Kings 1973 01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:45,600 if you want another. 1974 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,199 Speaker 2: Just nice, stay on brand. 1975 01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:50,600 Speaker 3: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Let us know what 1976 01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:54,840 you thought, how much your opinions of the grades changed? Uh, 1977 01:28:55,239 --> 01:28:59,439 you know, leave us a comment comments on YouTube, you know, thanks, 1978 01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:02,640 thanks every Thanks Tom especially very active in the comments. 1979 01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:03,399 Speaker 2: As we're live recording. 1980 01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,439 Speaker 3: As always, rate review, subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies. 1981 01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,359 If you're not following us on socials, please do that. 1982 01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,359 Please subscribe on YouTube and especially like the videos there. 1983 01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:16,359 Speaker 2: Help the algorithm. Love us back, leave us some comments. 1984 01:29:16,359 --> 01:29:18,079 We'll talk to you about our grades. 1985 01:29:18,119 --> 01:29:18,279 Speaker 1: There. 1986 01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:21,520 Speaker 3: I think that's going to cover it. We'll be back 1987 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,119 at some point with an interesting project. I'm not sure 1988 01:29:24,119 --> 01:29:26,199 when that's going to drop, but it involves Mount Rushmore. 1989 01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:28,600 This whole teas there, so we are going to be 1990 01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:32,239 releasing that then, am I surprising you a little bit? 1991 01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:34,000 Speaker 1: Who knows? 1992 01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:34,880 Speaker 2: Maybe we won't deliver. 1993 01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:37,760 Speaker 1: Thanks everybody shoting for me to comment about it now 1994 01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:39,039 if you watch it in the end, we're not going 1995 01:29:39,079 --> 01:29:40,520 to publish it unless someone mentioned. 1996 01:29:40,319 --> 01:29:43,840 Speaker 3: They want to see it about Gauntlet Throne, who listens 1997 01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,720 to the end of the night shouts Frank Nilo Kin. 1998 01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:47,720 Speaker 2: Apologies, Yared Allen