Speaker 1: The following presentation is it al Marvis Studio's production.
Speaker 2: Tonight's program on Alternative Views is one which you may
Speaker 2: quite frankly not want to watch. It's going to be
Speaker 2: very disturbing. The subject is very controversial, even disgusting. The
Speaker 2: language in some of them may be offensive to some people.
Speaker 2: But we're going to find out tonight about the senior
Speaker 2: side of the American power structure and maybe something about
Speaker 2: male homo sapien. Because the subject of tonight's program is
Speaker 2: boys for sale, boy prostitution. Where these kids come from,
Speaker 2: how they use, how they're abused, tortured, killed, used sexually,
Speaker 2: and who is it that's doing it. We find some
Speaker 2: very shocking things are happening. We have with us Tom Philpott,
Speaker 2: the History Department of the University of Texas is a
Speaker 2: special guest. In an addition, Mark McKinnon, former editor of
Speaker 2: the Late of Texan at the university. Tom has been
Speaker 2: doing a lot of research on the subject, and Mark
Speaker 2: was involved with some articles, very controversial articles a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. But before we have our program on
Speaker 2: boy prostitution, here are some news stories. Well, I guess
Speaker 2: most of you saw the movie the day after William F.
Speaker 2: Buckley in his Magnificent mind calls it sheer humbugery and
Speaker 2: it was a result of junk thought. And then he
Speaker 2: includes with this, Buckley, I don't know, he's just getting
Speaker 2: senile or what. I remember a few months ago he
Speaker 2: wrote an oracle saying that if Nicaragua continues to do
Speaker 2: what they do, We're going to declare war on them
Speaker 2: and their backers Cuba and the Soviet Union go to
Speaker 2: World War three over Nicaragua. Well, anyway, he talks about
Speaker 2: the nuclear war this way. Remember this, folks, A full
Speaker 2: scale nuclear war would mean about one hundred million Americans dead.
Speaker 2: Those hundred million are going to die one of these
Speaker 2: days without nuclear anesthetic, and they will in almost any
Speaker 2: case die more painfully. And well, let's have World War three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is really obscene. I think his mind got
Speaker 3: frozen in the nineteen fifties during the McCarthy period, where
Speaker 3: he literally believed that there was a monolithic totalitarian evil
Speaker 3: in the world, the Soviet Union, and everything they do
Speaker 3: is bad. Everything we do to counter this is good,
Speaker 3: including you know, war and militarism and even nuclear war
Speaker 3: would be justified against this evil. It's almost sort of
Speaker 3: a very simplicity Christian view of this Manichean religious in
Speaker 3: the fourth century that saw a battle between Satan and
Speaker 3: the Lord as the primary forces of history. And that's
Speaker 3: Buckley's mindset.
Speaker 2: Well, there are a lot of religious nuts now who
Speaker 2: are welcoming the nuclear holocaust because that would bring on
Speaker 2: the second Coming of Jesus. So just don't have any
Speaker 2: of this nuclear free stuff. Well, they're even trying to
Speaker 2: say that nuclear war is okay in England. The Ministry
Speaker 2: of Defense in England has a pr propaganda race going.
Speaker 2: They're distributing pamphlets and for a while they were dickering
Speaker 2: with J. Walter Thompson, the big American advertising firm, for
Speaker 2: one point five million dollar contract to produce slick commercials
Speaker 2: praising nuclear bombs and saying, hey, we can't let people
Speaker 2: bullies around, we need these things. The Mother Jones quoted
Speaker 2: somebody from the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament there when Senior
Speaker 2: Bruce Kent he was saying, there's any factor that got
Speaker 2: the people in England upset, it was our own government
Speaker 2: civil defense program telling peopleeople to protect themselves against nuclear
Speaker 2: war by staying at home, by hiding under kitchen tables
Speaker 2: and whitewashing their windows. A recent poll, by the way,
Speaker 2: indicates that one half of the British people are opposed
Speaker 2: to these additional missiles being brought into the British isles.
Speaker 3: As are a growing number of the Germans. There's been
Speaker 3: several articles about the growing resistance in Germany to the
Speaker 3: implemmation of these missiles and that yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Well in Germany, there was back in September. First thing
Speaker 2: I've heard about it, the US soldiers had conducted a
Speaker 2: mass mock burial exercise called well, I'll save the name
Speaker 2: until later, anyway, The exercise trained soldiers how to use
Speaker 2: bulldozers to prepare for mass graves in the case of
Speaker 2: nuclear war in Europe. It's the first time, according to the
Speaker 2: Army Stars and Stripes, that this occurred. This came from
Speaker 2: Counterspy magazine and the code name for this exercise it
Speaker 2: was Confident Enterprise.
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm seeing there's a very interesting article in these
Speaker 3: times that puts all of the new Cold War and
Speaker 3: a very good perspective, and that is that the Reagan
Speaker 3: administration has claimed that it's tremendous spending on defense, it's
Speaker 3: building up of the nuclear Arsenal. The spending on these
Speaker 3: military weapons, putting these weapons systems in Europe is all
Speaker 3: necessary because Reagan claims over the last five or six years,
Speaker 3: the Russians have been increasing their spending on weapons or
Speaker 3: developments of new weapons, whereas we've been decreasing our spending
Speaker 3: and a falling behind the Soviet Union. Well, this article
Speaker 3: and in these Times indicates that this is total nonsense,
Speaker 3: based on complete myths and lies. First of all, they
Speaker 3: point out that military spending under the Carter years did
Speaker 3: not decrease as Reagan claimed, but increased two point ninety
Speaker 3: five percent from nineteen seventy seven through nine eighteen eighty one. Moreover,
Speaker 3: the CIA has just come out with a report on
Speaker 3: Soviet Economic Trends and Policy Development that claims that Soviet
Speaker 3: spending for military weapons, etc. Has declined over the last
Speaker 3: years since nineteen seventy six, and that they're spending for
Speaker 3: new weapons and their development of systems has been much
Speaker 3: lower than the increases in American spending and the CIA
Speaker 3: and their report has documented this in great detail. Moreover,
Speaker 3: Reagan administration has been claiming that one of the priorities
Speaker 3: of the end dropoff administration in the Soviet Union is
Speaker 3: also to develop new weapons systems to increase military spending,
Speaker 3: et cetera, whereas the CIA report also indicate that that
Speaker 3: is complete nonsense, that there has been a drop of
Speaker 3: spending for military means under end dropoff, who has been
Speaker 3: dedicating the majority of his new spending programs to non
Speaker 3: military civilian expenditures, etc. So that it's total nonsense that
Speaker 3: the Soviets are spending more on money on weapon systems,
Speaker 3: we're spending less. In fact, during the same period, the
Speaker 3: Reagan administration has increased military spending sixteen point seven percent annually,
Speaker 3: which is the biggest buildup of military defense spending in
Speaker 3: American history, and in fact, the defense budget that was
Speaker 3: passed by the Reagan administration for the coming year is
Speaker 3: the highest that has ever been spent in US history.
Speaker 3: No less than two hundred and forty nine point eight
Speaker 3: billion dollars will be spent on military spending by the
Speaker 3: Reagan administration next year, which will include new weapon systems
Speaker 3: such as the MX nuclear missile, the B one bombers,
Speaker 3: and other billion dollar programs. For all of these new
Speaker 3: missiles systems, In fact, the only systems that military systems
Speaker 3: that the Reagan administration didn't get from Congress was a
Speaker 3: nerve gas program twice. The Congress voted it down twice.
Speaker 3: The Senate approved it on a tie vote, with George
Speaker 3: Bush casting the tie breaking vote in both cases, but
Speaker 3: the Senate House Conference Committee killed the nerve gas program
Speaker 3: both times. But otherwise Reagan got all the defense spend
Speaker 3: he wanted.
Speaker 2: It's curious that this CIA report came out because two
Speaker 2: years ago from the alternative press, you remember, we carried
Speaker 2: stories with just this such analysis. And the fact that
Speaker 2: the CIA seems to rediscover this two years later is
Speaker 2: rather curious, and the fact that they would come out
Speaker 2: with this right now is even more curious.
Speaker 3: Reagan just plays fast and loose with his statistics and facts.
Speaker 3: He's literally the biggest liar that we've ever seen in
Speaker 3: the White House. And it's been.
Speaker 2: Well along this same line. The Reagan administration, of course,
Speaker 2: still clings to the zero option for your meaning that
Speaker 2: Soviets have to dismantle all or most of their existing
Speaker 2: intermediate range nuclear missiles and then return we will not
Speaker 2: deploy or use the Pershing two or cruise missiles. Well,
Speaker 2: the Counterspy quoted a new Congressional Research Service study which
Speaker 2: showed that the bases for the Reagan administration's claims that
Speaker 2: they needed to do this were all false, mainly the
Speaker 2: fact they were saying. The Soviets course say, well, we
Speaker 2: got to include the British and French missiles in here,
Speaker 2: and the Reagan says, now, we don't need to do
Speaker 2: this because the French and British forces are insignificant when
Speaker 2: compared to the Soviet arsenal. But this new congressional study
Speaker 2: says that isn't true. Britain has four submarines with sixteen
Speaker 2: six warhead missiles each. France has five nuclear sub marines
Speaker 2: with sixteen multiple warheads each and eighteen land based missiles
Speaker 2: and thirty four Mirage planes which can drop a load
Speaker 2: on the Soviet Union. And they're working up to fifteen
Speaker 2: hundred warheads and since it only takes a handful to
Speaker 2: destroy the country, well that's a plenty. No, it's not
Speaker 2: to Well, it's understandable the Soviets would be a bit
Speaker 2: upset about that. Reagan also says that the British and
Speaker 2: French forces are independent and uncommitted, the US doesn't have
Speaker 2: any control over it. But this congressional study says, no,
Speaker 2: that's not true. The British forces are going right along
Speaker 2: with and planned in with those of the US and
Speaker 2: even the French, although they do have their own control
Speaker 2: of it. They are signatory to some packs which indicate
Speaker 2: that they will coordinate their military power with those of
Speaker 2: the other European countries in the US. Reagan also says
Speaker 2: the British and French arms are strategic andnot theater nuclear weapons. Well,
Speaker 2: when they had the Salt negotiations, the US was saying
Speaker 2: it was just the opposite. So it depends on what
Speaker 2: negotiations are using they label them the other way. And
Speaker 2: that's our new segment this evening. Now let's turn to
Speaker 2: our main focus, boy prostitution. Well, I'm drained already after
Speaker 2: talking to you people for a couple of days about
Speaker 2: this subject. I'm absolutely shocked and I feel degraded too
Speaker 2: as a member of the human race. Tom, can you
Speaker 2: first give a case history, just kind of a typical
Speaker 2: case history, and then we'll talk in greater detail about
Speaker 2: what happens.
Speaker 1: All right, I can tell you the biography of a
Speaker 1: little kid from a hollow in West Virginia whose mom
Speaker 1: and dad went to Houston to find work. He thought
Speaker 1: that Houston was the capital of opportunity in America. The
Speaker 1: dad went out there to get a job, a low
Speaker 1: level job with an oil company brought. The mother then
Speaker 1: sent for little Jimmy and his little brother. Jimmy and
Speaker 1: his brother got to Houston on a greyhound bus and
Speaker 1: his dad mom failed to pick him up.
Speaker 2: How old were they.
Speaker 1: Jimmy at that time was twelve and his little brother
Speaker 1: was six. They spent the night in the terminal, Jimmy
Speaker 1: fending off the advances of a number of men, and
Speaker 1: then the dad came to pick him up. The next morning,
Speaker 1: the parents had both gotten drunk and forgotten to pick
Speaker 1: up the kids. The boys went to live with their parents.
Speaker 1: The parents both had severe drinking problems. The dad lost
Speaker 1: his job, the mother got killed in a car wreck.
Speaker 1: The little boy was severely injured. Jimmy dropped out of
Speaker 1: school to try to hustle was his word, money to
Speaker 1: help keep the family what was left of it together.
Speaker 1: The dad died choking in his own vomit after a
Speaker 1: drinking bout, and Jimmy was the sole support of himself
Speaker 1: and his little brother. The rent was coming round and
Speaker 1: Jimmy had no money. And then a neighbor kid said
Speaker 1: to him, you can get ten dollars just for watching
Speaker 1: me play with a man. And Jimmy said, that's queer,
Speaker 1: and his friend said, it's not queer if the guy
Speaker 1: does it to you, if you just let it happen,
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is watch, Jimmy did it.
Speaker 1: Then the man offered Jimmy twenty five dollars to let
Speaker 1: the man play with Jimmy, and Jimmy took it, so
Speaker 1: he had thirty five dollars, and then he got introduced
Speaker 1: into the routine. Jimmy was little, only twelve, and he
Speaker 1: was small for his age, and the circuit he went
Speaker 1: on in Houston was not the main one, which is Montrose.
Speaker 1: He went to a place nearby, an arcade called fun Land.
Speaker 1: The way that worked was the boys would stand by
Speaker 1: the machines and a man would come by. If the
Speaker 1: man offered quarters, the boy would take him, and then
Speaker 1: the man the boy would go off. Jimmy became a
Speaker 1: professional prostitute at the age of twelve. He survived in
Speaker 1: that capacity until he was fourteen.
Speaker 2: Was he working on his own or was he part
Speaker 2: of an organization?
Speaker 1: He was not part of an organization. He was what
Speaker 1: they called the farm League, and he was taking care
Speaker 1: of his little brother. His brother got killed in a
Speaker 1: car wreck when he was driving with some people, and
Speaker 1: Jimmy then was a desolate and almost destitute. He used
Speaker 1: the last money he had to bury his brother. He
Speaker 1: did not want to let his last surviving relative, his
Speaker 1: grandpa in West Virginia, know the way things had gone.
Speaker 1: A reporter in Houston last saw Jimmy across the street
Speaker 1: from fun Land, and a man who used to pay
Speaker 1: boys for sex then told this reporter, I know that boy.
Speaker 1: He told the man who's a friend of mine, that
Speaker 1: one time he was having sex with that little boy,
Speaker 1: and then he realized that the boy was crying, and
Speaker 1: he looked up and saw that the boy was sucking
Speaker 1: his own thumb, and at that point he had to
Speaker 1: break off the encounter. The journalist believes that this reformed
Speaker 1: man who used to use boys was his own best friend.
Speaker 1: The boy who had been having sex with Jimmy. Jimmy disappeared.
Speaker 1: His body was later found mutilated, and his grandfather was notified.
Speaker 1: The police then told the grandpa in a very cruel way,
Speaker 1: that the grandpa shouldn't try to get a loan from
Speaker 1: the city of Houston. It would cost five hundred dollars
Speaker 1: to ship the body. To ship the body to West
Speaker 1: Virginia because the boy was nothing but a harbor whore
Speaker 1: or worse. Grandpa died shortly thereafter. The whole family is dead. Now.
Speaker 1: Jimmy was a typical kid. He wasn't looking for this life.
Speaker 1: He found it. He needed some means of support. He
Speaker 1: took what he could get, and he came to grief
Speaker 1: and met his death. Houston is possibly the worst city
Speaker 1: in the United States for the misuse of lost and
Speaker 1: runaway boys or homeless defenseless boys. Probably three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty or more boys are killed every year in Houston.
Speaker 4: About Houston, I would say I hear about Houston, but
Speaker 4: it is the worst. That children are brought to Houston
Speaker 4: from places such as New Orleans or from other parts
Speaker 4: of the Southwest.
Speaker 5: Their life is sad. It's one hundred percent sad.
Speaker 6: They get up, you know, one or two or three
Speaker 6: during the day and they go out and they have to.
Speaker 5: Earn money, and they're treated bad.
Speaker 6: They eat only when they're fed by somebody else, and
Speaker 6: they never get anything for anything.
Speaker 5: They always have to return sexual favors for it.
Speaker 6: They sometimes get beaten, they get robbed, they get pushed,
Speaker 6: you know, the police abuse them.
Speaker 5: Everybody abuses them. One young man got out of a.
Speaker 6: Car by young man, I mean the agent of probably
Speaker 6: fifteen maybe sixteen, and then he got out of the
Speaker 6: car and he was just badly beaten, I mean his
Speaker 6: note to his bit. He looked right out of his
Speaker 6: face was black and blue, and blood coming out of
Speaker 6: his nose, and his lip was fat, and he couldn't
Speaker 6: walk very well, and he was sick to his stomach
Speaker 6: and the bushes and he was just very badly beaten evidently,
Speaker 6: and got either a bad trip or the man was
Speaker 6: on astinam or something, and just kind of like shoved
Speaker 6: them out of the cars.
Speaker 5: He went round the corner, opened the door for him,
Speaker 5: said get out.
Speaker 7: Any abem ever want to hurt you. That's why I
Speaker 7: watch out for him.
Speaker 1: Do you watch out for them?
Speaker 7: How do you tell no when they started to jump
Speaker 7: now want to jump on you? Yeah, if they didn't,
Speaker 7: I'll be ready. I'll be watching other time.
Speaker 8: What do you be doing then.
Speaker 7: Laying down bed letting just watching?
Speaker 1: What if they start to jump on you?
Speaker 9: What can you do.
Speaker 10: I always care pocketnized somebody that I don't know if
Speaker 10: they hurt me or not. You know, I just watch
Speaker 10: out for him just in case they do start out
Speaker 10: of ten.
Speaker 5: I'm weird.
Speaker 9: I mean, they get you know.
Speaker 11: There was one guy that picked me up in Atlanta
Speaker 11: and he just said that, you know, he wanted somebody
Speaker 11: to go out and have a few beers when he
Speaker 11: was smoking joint. And we got over there and I
Speaker 11: was drinking his beer and all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 11: doing like that, and I couldn't even see straight. My
Speaker 11: eyes were rolling back, and then the room started spinning
Speaker 11: and I was out of it.
Speaker 9: When I came around, he had me tied.
Speaker 11: Up in the basement, no less way up like this,
Speaker 11: you know, and I couldn't even move.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I stretched.
Speaker 5: What was he doing to you?
Speaker 9: Nothing?
Speaker 11: He was just sitting there with this whip looking like
Speaker 11: he's gonna hit me with it. He just threatened me
Speaker 11: a lot, and I was sitting there crying and scared
Speaker 11: to death, you know, because well the worst I could
Speaker 11: do is kill me.
Speaker 8: That interview was conducted several months ago in Houston, Texas.
Speaker 8: Investigators now fear that the fifteen year old is dead.
Speaker 8: The body of a young man found ritualistically dismembered and
Speaker 8: Missouri is thought to be his.
Speaker 11: Oh.
Speaker 9: Oh, he was clamping handcuffs on me.
Speaker 2: I was laying on my stomach.
Speaker 9: The other two were on their stomach.
Speaker 5: And they were handcuffing. Their feet were tired.
Speaker 8: The most shocking and horrifying result of older men having
Speaker 8: sex with young boys is the story of Dean Coral
Speaker 8: in Houston, Texas, and more recently John Gasey in Chicago.
Speaker 8: In Houston, Carl lord Or had brought to his home
Speaker 8: at least twenty seven young boys, all under the age
Speaker 8: of seventeen. The boys were sexually assaulted then killed in Houston.
Speaker 1: I give the figure based on I think prudent calculations
Speaker 1: that upwards of three hundred and fifty boys a year
Speaker 1: are killed deliberately because of this. Many more die of
Speaker 1: drug over use, nutrition of suicide. The national toll per
Speaker 1: year is in the thousands. Every year kids die violently
Speaker 1: because of this. In the first three months of this
Speaker 1: year nineteen eighty one, thirty boys were found dead in Houston.
Speaker 1: None of them was called a homicide. They were found
Speaker 1: to be dead of exposure. Debt of cause is undetermined
Speaker 1: debt of massive internal bleeding, as in the case of
Speaker 1: one child under ten who was found naked in a
Speaker 1: Dempsey dumpster with his colon and his rectum torn apart.
Speaker 1: He was called not a homicide but a victim of
Speaker 1: massive internal injury.
Speaker 2: He was fist raped.
Speaker 3: Yes, what is the sort of psychic roots or the
Speaker 3: nature of this phenomenon.
Speaker 1: I've been studying this phenomenon since the spring of nineteen
Speaker 1: and to the best of my knowledge, most men who
Speaker 1: seek sex from boys are not homosexuals to the extent
Speaker 1: that they have active sex lives at the peer level.
Speaker 1: They are heterosexual. Many of them have no peer sex
Speaker 1: at all. There are gay people who are what we
Speaker 1: call petteris, that is, men who lust after children, especially boys.
Speaker 1: But it appears to be the case that most such
Speaker 1: men are not gay. That their attraction is for young,
Speaker 1: defenseless children, especially boys, because they're more exotic and more forbidden.
Speaker 1: But it is not a matter of gay rights as
Speaker 1: advocated by practically anybody. This is a much different phenomenon.
Speaker 1: The reason that the gay community usually scorns any investigation
Speaker 1: of the subject is that they know that the average
Speaker 1: person in the public will blame homosexuals and homosexuality for
Speaker 1: the phenomenon, regardless of what facts are presented.
Speaker 2: Well, this is not just a sexual thing in the
Speaker 2: way we talk about it. It's a power trip and
Speaker 2: it's also a sadistic thing because these kids are tortured
Speaker 2: and killed.
Speaker 12: Kind of individuals involved are down the line almost in
Speaker 12: every instance. In the cases I've investigated, men who are
Speaker 12: very powerful, usually very wealthy, and usually administrate control over
Speaker 12: a large number of people.
Speaker 13: Wealthy Houstonians can and do obtain boys in a most
Speaker 13: discreet manner.
Speaker 14: It's gotten a little more sophisticated now, it's gotten more,
Speaker 14: it's gotten more expensive prices, higher prices are paid, and
Speaker 14: it's it's gotten a little more whisticated in terms of Oh,
Speaker 14: I think the types of people who are who are
Speaker 14: into it, types of adults who are into it, professional.
Speaker 1: People Houston professional people. Yeah, yeah, soliciting boys, oh.
Speaker 9: Sure, you know, I mean a millionaire.
Speaker 15: And you have people here that are so wealthy that
Speaker 15: they can't let anybody know what they're doing, that they're
Speaker 15: willing to pay two three four hundred dollars a night,
Speaker 15: you know, for one of these boys not to say
Speaker 15: anything about them, you know, you got judges, doctors, lawyers, politicians, advertising.
Speaker 3: People involved in.
Speaker 6: In buying young people, if it's for an hour, for
Speaker 6: a night, or for a month or per year.
Speaker 1: They actually have white slavery in this country.
Speaker 16: So facts, and then in Houston right now it's going on, Tom.
Speaker 3: Is there any evidence that there's any connection with organized crime?
Speaker 3: Obviously with other forms of prostitution that we know about,
Speaker 3: they're close connections. The mafia has always utilized prostitution as
Speaker 3: one of the pillars of its organizations and sources of
Speaker 3: its income. Is there any connection here that has been
Speaker 3: revealed with organized crime.
Speaker 1: Yes, when we're talking about four hundred kids on the
Speaker 1: street between two and four in the morning and a
Speaker 1: city like Houston, there's very little organization. There may be
Speaker 1: a runner or a pimp who's trying to squeeze the
Speaker 1: boys a little, but there's no big businessman running a
Speaker 1: sophisticated operation. But when there is a bookstore with forty stalls,
Speaker 1: there's often a stable of boys. That's fairly good sized business.
Speaker 1: And there's bigger business than that. That's the call boy
Speaker 1: operations like this one we described with the ten thousand customers,
Speaker 1: that's big business. It's crime. It's organized, but it's not
Speaker 1: the mafia. It's the pillars of our society. There is
Speaker 1: big business ice crime. It's sophisticated. It's closely attached to
Speaker 1: the major financial, commercial, industrial, educational institutions of our society.
Speaker 1: It's run by the same people who run those. It's
Speaker 1: frequented by the same people who occupy management positions in those.
Speaker 1: It's not the mafia, it's it's an adjunct of clean business.
Speaker 1: It's serving the most respectable people we have in our society,
Speaker 1: the people who are the elite.
Speaker 2: I assume you can't name names at this particular time, but.
Speaker 1: Not of people haven't been apprehended yet.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, are senators involved? Us senators? Well, but Congressman,
Speaker 2: let me give you some information here. Now, this is
Speaker 2: stuff that has come out of newspaper clippings. It has
Speaker 2: gotten far enough to get in the newspaper, even if
Speaker 2: it hasn't been followed up. This was potentially the big
Speaker 2: case of all.
Speaker 9: That.
Speaker 2: The one in New Orleans.
Speaker 1: Yes, a New Orleans Boy Scout troop was busted for
Speaker 1: actually being a callboy ring of boy prostitutes. The man
Speaker 1: who was the leader of the boy Scout troop was
Speaker 1: given seventy five years in prison, and then he offered
Speaker 1: to tell a story. The story he told was that
Speaker 1: the congressional delegations from two states, one of which was
Speaker 1: Louisiana and one of which bordered Louisiana, and as he
Speaker 1: put it, the entire hierarchy of one of the states,
Speaker 1: as far as top political posts, were all involved as
Speaker 1: customers of the little boys. And he said he was
Speaker 1: willing to name all the names. That was a UPI
Speaker 1: story of twenty six November nineteen seventy nine, and he
Speaker 1: never talked again. As he said, he's still in jail.
Speaker 1: He said there was one US Senator and many congressmen,
Speaker 1: weren't there.
Speaker 3: A couple actually right wing, knew right and representatives congressmen
Speaker 3: in Washington, bamen who were actually well found guilty of
Speaker 3: molesting Doug.
Speaker 1: I wish you were right. Congressman Robert Bauman was apprehended
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen eighty having sex with a sixteen
Speaker 1: year old boy. For some reason, no charges were brought
Speaker 1: until September nineteen eighty. At that point, the FBI and
Speaker 1: the US Attorney made an agreement to keep all details
Speaker 1: of the account out of public records. The charges were
Speaker 1: dropped on Bauman's promised that he would take a drug
Speaker 1: or an alcoholic abuse treatment program. He continued in office,
Speaker 1: and he ran for reelection. He was defeated, but he
Speaker 1: said he would go on to run again. William F.
Speaker 1: Buckley is one of his closest friends. They were co
Speaker 1: founders of Young Americans for Freedom in the American Conservative Union.
Speaker 1: The way Buckley put it was this, it transpires that
Speaker 1: during alcoholic bouts he engages in homosexual acts. He went
Speaker 1: on to say there was a complaint filed by a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old boy. Then he went on to say
Speaker 1: Bomba should resign from Congress and resign from the positions
Speaker 1: and conservative organizations because he was an embarrassment. Bauma never
Speaker 1: went to trial. He didn't actually go to a formal
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing either. Then there was a Texas Congressman Wyatt,
Speaker 1: who was caught well, actually, I take it back, he
Speaker 1: was not caught. A juvenile reported that Wyatt had forced
Speaker 1: sex on him. Charges were never filed. That's a quote.
Speaker 1: Charges were never filed, despite the fact that the boy
Speaker 1: had filed a complaint, and Wyatt said he was going
Speaker 1: to run again when it was published in the Austin
Speaker 1: Paper that the complaint was not that he was drunk driving,
Speaker 1: but that he had forced sex on a juvenile. Mail
Speaker 1: He said he wouldn't run again. He was already in
Speaker 1: the alcohol rehabilitation program. So there was no trial, no
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing, no charges.
Speaker 2: Wasn't there another ring of tour guides, boys's tour guides
Speaker 2: for congressmen?
Speaker 1: Well, that you may be referring to the case of
Speaker 1: Representative Henson, Republican from Mississippi, who was found having sex
Speaker 1: with somebody in the men's room of the Longworth House
Speaker 1: office building. There conflicting accounts. According to one account he
Speaker 1: was having sex with a minor. According to another account
Speaker 1: he was having sex with an adult. He said he
Speaker 1: was innocent, and he agreed to undergo alcohol abuse treatment
Speaker 1: and he was not charged. Well, there were many charges
Speaker 1: were dropped.
Speaker 2: Well, what was the story about the about the young
Speaker 2: boys being tour GUIDs for the capitol? And this was
Speaker 2: also part of a little boy sex ring, and also
Speaker 2: some of it resulted in campaign contributions. I read that, and.
Speaker 1: That has to do with the state of Texas as
Speaker 1: a matter of fact. And here's the way we can
Speaker 1: tell that story.
Speaker 2: This is one you can't tell.
Speaker 1: We got into the newspaper. Yeah, I saw the news,
Speaker 1: but then it disappeared. What appeared in the newspaper was
Speaker 1: a boy's home run by a Texas state representative was
Speaker 1: being investigated for charge of abuse of the boys. The
Speaker 1: state representative said that there was no abuse. He claimed
Speaker 1: that his place could not be investigated by the state
Speaker 1: because it was private, like that of Reverend roll Off.
Speaker 1: The story died and didn't appear in the press anymore.
Speaker 1: The lead that produced the initial story was that that
Speaker 1: representative took campaign contributions and then the contributors, as a reward,
Speaker 1: got to have sex with the boys in the home,
Speaker 1: and that he did this for more than himself, but
Speaker 1: for other representatives. That man is out of the state legislature.
Speaker 2: So we've talked about legislators, congressmen, senator, senators, people in
Speaker 2: the highest ranks of the government at the local, at
Speaker 2: the state level. Now, are these just operations or is
Speaker 2: this part of a widespread ongoing thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's very widespread, and not just among powerful politicians.
Speaker 1: We've talked about politicians, but it seems to be the
Speaker 1: case that in all high powered.
Speaker 2: Professions corporations, and now we're talking.
Speaker 1: About corporations, met in law, even the university, not necessarily
Speaker 1: professions with bloated salaries, but prestige, some power, influence, and
Speaker 1: above all pressure. The men involved are susceptible to this
Speaker 1: kind of deviation.
Speaker 17: I'm working right now, you know, like just you know,
Speaker 17: with the corporation.
Speaker 5: And what's that? How does that work?
Speaker 17: Well, when they're executives or you know, their business people
Speaker 17: are in town, they're sent to our apartment and we
Speaker 17: entertain them while they're here.
Speaker 2: Okay, what's that entertainment usually involved?
Speaker 5: What do they usually demand or what do they want?
Speaker 17: Well, it's all kinds of sex and perversions. There's no two. Like,
Speaker 17: I've decided that everyone's in for something different, so I
Speaker 17: can't really stereotype the hope.
Speaker 5: Yes, all the men want different things.
Speaker 17: Yeah, right, but we're usually in the passive side and
Speaker 17: they're usually the dominant player.
Speaker 10: Well, it was a real old man, older man right
Speaker 10: about in his sixties seventies.
Speaker 17: What does he do?
Speaker 8: A great hospitals.
Speaker 7: Operates on paper.
Speaker 3: Doctor.
Speaker 1: We've talked about those men who have achieved power and
Speaker 1: also among those men who wanted it but didn't get it.
Speaker 1: Men like poor Gasey in Chicago, who killed at least
Speaker 1: thirty three boys. He was not a well to do man,
Speaker 1: but he was a joiner. He paid high dues to
Speaker 1: join men's clubs. He paid one thousand dollars to join
Speaker 1: the President's Club so he could have dinner with Jimmy Carter. Instead,
Speaker 1: he had dinner with Missus Carr, had his picture taken
Speaker 1: with her. He was an upwards striver. He killed at
Speaker 1: least thirty three boys. He offered in his defense that
Speaker 1: he could not identify any of the thirty three boys
Speaker 1: by face or by name, because he had had sex
Speaker 1: with fifteen hundred different boys in the previous five years,
Speaker 1: three hundred different kids a year, and most of them,
Speaker 1: as he said, were prostitutes. He didn't snatch them off
Speaker 1: the street. He went out and bought their services, and
Speaker 1: then he coerced them, as this lawyer in Washington says,
Speaker 1: no one ever does. He made them captives, and he
Speaker 1: killed them.
Speaker 2: What about women and the positions of power in government?
Speaker 2: You don't find women involved in that, Well.
Speaker 12: You don't find many women involved in positions of power
Speaker 12: in the American.
Speaker 1: Maybe that explains the what appears to be the fact
Speaker 1: women don't do this to little girls. Heterosexual women. Homosexual
Speaker 1: women' do this to little girls or a little boy
Speaker 1: or little boys. I mean, it happens, but it's not common,
Speaker 1: it's not ordinary. It's not a phenomenon in the threat.
Speaker 1: If you have a little girl and you have an
Speaker 1: adult female friend, you needn't have any apprehension. But if
Speaker 1: you have little kids who are boys, they are in
Speaker 1: more danger than the little girls today.
Speaker 3: Why do you think there's so much violence caught up
Speaker 3: in this?
Speaker 8: Investigations in other cities have shown that boys thirteen fourteen,
Speaker 8: even younger are coerced into prostitution with threats of physical violence,
Speaker 8: and are sometimes shipped across state lines, shipped to the
Speaker 8: older adult men who desire young boys for sexual acts. Occasionally,
Speaker 8: these boys episodes with their older clients ends and physical violence.
Speaker 8: There are men who seek young boys to torture and
Speaker 8: sometimes to kill.
Speaker 1: This phenomenon is nique to America. It may not even
Speaker 1: be unique to advanced industrial urban societies. In the other
Speaker 1: places where it occurs, though it doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: attended by a high level of mayhemic violence in the
Speaker 1: United States, it is.
Speaker 3: In Islamic countries, for instance, a prostitution with boys at
Speaker 3: a standard. I've been in Morocco and Algeria and observed this,
Speaker 3: and yet I've never heard any stories of violence being involved.
Speaker 3: In other words, it's an erotic phenomenon. As a proposed
Speaker 3: it as power or psychological.
Speaker 1: Well, there are those who would have us believe that
Speaker 1: that is the case in America. Here, for instance, is
Speaker 1: an article written by a law professor in Washington, d c.
Speaker 1: Who was general counsel to the Metropolitan Police Department. This
Speaker 1: article was written in nineteen eighty one. He says, if
Speaker 1: the boys are victims, it is largely in the technical sense.
Speaker 1: It is more accurate to drives them as entrepreneurs who
Speaker 1: by and large understand their own motivations. They do it
Speaker 1: for money, for drugs, for pleasure, and perhaps for some
Speaker 1: is a crude gambit for emotional sustenance. But unlike teenage
Speaker 1: girl prostitutes, they do not act out of fear. There
Speaker 1: is no coerced recruitment, no whippings, no incarcerations in their rooms,
Speaker 1: and no sweet talking pimps with cadillacs. That's not what
Speaker 1: I have found.
Speaker 3: So you think that's false, that Washington Police Chief.
Speaker 1: I think it's false, and I think it's a deliberate falsehood.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about we haven't talked about the proliferation
Speaker 2: of the United States of this. We've talked about a
Speaker 2: few individual cases. How widespread is it and what are
Speaker 2: the numbers we're talking about?
Speaker 1: Well, we know of this. For instance, this is a standard.
Speaker 1: A half a million kids run away or are thrown
Speaker 1: out of homes every year in the United States, and
Speaker 1: the majority of them are boys. Another thing that the
Speaker 1: Presidents Commission on Obscenity found. This is the commission that
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon repudiated. It mentioned in passing that child pornography
Speaker 1: was a phenomenon of the abuse of children, and then
Speaker 1: went on to say that for every female prostitute of
Speaker 1: any age in the United States, there are nine boys
Speaker 1: under age who are prostitutes. That is a finding which
Speaker 1: is debatable and is a speculation, but it went unnoticed.
Speaker 1: I think though, that if you're getting in a car
Speaker 1: in pro all the streets of the capitals of this
Speaker 1: practice Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and to a much lesser extent, Austin. Our state capitol
Speaker 1: and Washington, the nation's capital, you'll find that boys are
Speaker 1: the ones hustling more than the women.
Speaker 3: Mark some of the research that you do it in
Speaker 3: Austin here that started off your involvement in this issue,
Speaker 3: indicated that there was a possible ring of homosexual boys
Speaker 3: in Austin. Could you tell some of the facts on
Speaker 3: this case.
Speaker 12: Well, my interest in this whole issue originated when as
Speaker 12: a reporter for the Daily Text and we heard through
Speaker 12: the grapevine that a pharmacist here in town had been busted.
Speaker 12: And I don't remember the original charge. I'm not sure
Speaker 12: if the abuse of a boy in home, I guess
Speaker 12: it was abusive. That's abusive, a boy in a halfway house. Well,
Speaker 12: the thing that interested us about the case was that
Speaker 12: the police had later found in his home a file
Speaker 12: and index file of anywhere from two to five hundred
Speaker 12: names of young boys in the around the Travis County
Speaker 12: area and counties company in Travis County, and it had
Speaker 12: their names, phone numbers, parents' names in many cases, sexual
Speaker 12: statistics on the on the personnel height, age, weight, and
Speaker 12: in some cases preferences. And that sounded like an astounding
Speaker 12: thing to us that there should be somebody.
Speaker 16: Traveling around, and what he did was he would hang.
Speaker 12: Out at high schools and and offer the drugs that
Speaker 12: he had available, as he was.
Speaker 16: A pharmacist, in exchange for sexual favors.
Speaker 12: Well, we followed that up and and uh somewhere down
Speaker 12: the line of judicial uh scrutiny, the entire the evidence
Speaker 12: was lost or disappeared or was unable to be retracted,
Speaker 12: and they're there.
Speaker 16: It complicates from there, but that's that's how we got
Speaker 16: well Anderson.
Speaker 1: His name was Anderson, Robert Anderson. He was found guilty
Speaker 1: of one charge and sentenced to two years in prison,
Speaker 1: and then he skipped. He was he was still not incarcerated.
Speaker 1: He skipped and he's ever been found again.
Speaker 3: It was there any indication that he was involved with
Speaker 3: other men who were participating in these favors and others.
Speaker 3: What would the point of him keeping these cards be
Speaker 3: unless there was some sort of business.
Speaker 1: He was an agent. He was an agent, and he
Speaker 1: had quantities of drugs. Mark didn't mention that he listed
Speaker 1: next to the name of each boy that boy's personal
Speaker 1: drug preference. And he also had a very large quantity
Speaker 1: of muscle relaxes to administer to boys, to make sense
Speaker 1: easier for the men.
Speaker 12: Not only that, but there was also the names of
Speaker 12: several several well known business men in the Texas community that,
Speaker 12: for obvious reasons, were contacts.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about you talked about boy scout groups and
Speaker 2: boys homes.
Speaker 1: What about these, Well, a boy's home is an an
Speaker 1: ideal place if you want to get in on an
Speaker 1: operation and get hold of some vulnerable kids, it's an
Speaker 1: ideal place to do it. In San Antonio this August,
Speaker 1: two men who were supposed to be Catholic priests were
Speaker 1: arrested for sodomizing fifty boys ages three and a half
Speaker 1: to fourteen that year, and they had several hundred boys
Speaker 1: in the past three years. They're having sex with the
Speaker 1: boys on a regular basis. That was why they established
Speaker 1: the home to get at little boys. In Dallas, a
Speaker 1: place was closed down the year before. In Houston. Jimmy
Speaker 1: was in a home in Houston for a while and
Speaker 1: he was raped by his caretaker. That place was closed down.
Speaker 1: In Houston, there are only forty two beds available in
Speaker 1: all the homes for boys in the whole city, and
Speaker 1: one of the homes that still opened was previously investigated
Speaker 1: and the rest were made because of attacks on the boys.
Speaker 1: It's very common. It's very hard to trust any place
Speaker 1: that presents itself as a home for boys. And one
Speaker 1: of the tragedies of that is when somebody opens one
Speaker 1: that is clean, like Covenant House in New York City
Speaker 1: operated by Father Bruce Ritter, the first thing that happens
Speaker 1: is there's a smear campaign against it, and everybody says
Speaker 1: it's dirty too. So if there's a clean one, it
Speaker 1: gets a bad name. The object is that to make
Speaker 1: it impossible to tell the good ones from the bad ones.
Speaker 2: I guess the boy Scout people have this problem too.
Speaker 1: Yes, we've mentioned a couple of boy sCOD rings. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the boy Scouts or an organized group
Speaker 1: to feed pederis.
Speaker 2: Yes, what about judges and police.
Speaker 1: Judges and police are in high pressure professions too. To
Speaker 1: my knowledge, the police are involved less as practitioners of
Speaker 1: this than the other stressful professions. By far. We mentioned
Speaker 1: to mention the clergy with all regret, the clergy is
Speaker 1: highly susceptible to this. Real priests and not just bogus
Speaker 1: priests like those in San Antonio.
Speaker 3: You mentioned some of the worst phenomena here these mass
Speaker 3: murders in Houston and in Chicago. Does this connect with
Speaker 3: Atlanta in any way. There's been, as you know, mass
Speaker 3: murders of all these black children in Atlanta, and as
Speaker 3: I recalled, the FBI when they initially got in the case,
Speaker 3: after they made this a federal case, Reagan or I
Speaker 3: guess it was Bush went down there. The FBI came
Speaker 3: out with a report that indicated there may be sex
Speaker 3: abuse of some sort in the death of these children.
Speaker 3: Then it seemed to be pretty much dropped after an
Speaker 3: initial play in the media. Do you have any comments
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 1: Yes. The first indications that leaked out that may be
Speaker 1: the kids who were victimized in Atlanta murdered were actually
Speaker 1: boy prostitutes who went to the people in the cars
Speaker 1: to make a contact came out in February, and then
Speaker 1: National Cable News Network and ABC News tried to mention
Speaker 1: this as a possibility. It's a very delicate thing. It's
Speaker 1: almost an insult in affront to the black community to
Speaker 1: say the Angels of Atlanta were really prostitutes. Unless you
Speaker 1: believe as I do, and unlike that law professor, I,
Speaker 1: unless you believe they're victims, they're not responsible for what
Speaker 1: is happening. They're being used and abused, but the public
Speaker 1: reaction was chilly, so the networks dropped it. They revived
Speaker 1: it in April and dropped it again. I have headlines
Speaker 1: here quotations from news broadcasts about the boys possibly being
Speaker 1: hustlers and that fellow who has been arrested and indicted
Speaker 1: being photographer procureur. Among the mothers of the first ten kids,
Speaker 1: those women who went public and talked about their predicament
Speaker 1: is one who said to the Wire Services in an interview,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid my son was involved in prostitution. I'm afraid
Speaker 1: that that's what got him killed. I'm afraid it's the
Speaker 1: link to the whole series of murders. And no newspaper
Speaker 1: in America printed the wire service copy.
Speaker 3: Isn't part of this whole phenomenon dealt with a business
Speaker 3: of pornography, child pornography. Pictures are taken of these acts,
Speaker 3: films are made, and it's Wayne Williams. We know is
Speaker 3: a photographer, and we know he has training electronics, he'd
Speaker 3: done radio work, he'd done recording work. So might he
Speaker 3: be involved in a film organization and indeed possibly even
Speaker 3: a snuff organization. There's been some evidence about US films
Speaker 3: where people are literally killed on film and that these
Speaker 3: are distributed the films, So is there some possibility that
Speaker 3: that might be involved.
Speaker 1: I think it's possible, and I think it's likely. We
Speaker 1: were talking about an ongoing case, and I think we
Speaker 1: have to be very careful about what we say. In Houston,
Speaker 1: I have seen myself big vans that don't have cabs
Speaker 1: on them, and I've seen young kids go into the
Speaker 1: van and not emerge for an hour or an hour
Speaker 1: and a half, and sometimes with the door open. I've
Speaker 1: seen photographic equipment inside. A raid was made on a
Speaker 1: mansion in Houston. Although the newspapers in Houston referred to
Speaker 1: it as a flat, it was a mansion. Inside that
Speaker 1: mansion was more photographic equipment than klrn KLRU possesses, and
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest stations in the Southwest, bigger
Speaker 1: than Channel thirteen in Houston possesses. Channel thirteen played up
Speaker 1: the raid with the news media. Besides Channel thirteen didn't.
Speaker 1: It was as if five guys in a little studio
Speaker 1: were taking candid camera shots of kids. They were producing
Speaker 1: books in there. There was also an interest in Houston
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one of a man who sold twenty
Speaker 1: different films child pornography films to somebody from Boston. He
Speaker 1: was committing several federal crimes and doing that, and among
Speaker 1: those films, although the newspapers would not print the information
Speaker 1: among those films was that of an infant being sexually
Speaker 1: used by men, and a film in which somebody appears
Speaker 1: to have been murdered. That person hasn't gone to jail yet.
Speaker 2: What about the bookstores and the places where they show
Speaker 2: movies and stuff like this here in town form.
Speaker 12: I think how much you don't find this sort of
Speaker 12: thing in the bookstores because it's the people who are
Speaker 12: trading and dealing with this kind of thing is very
Speaker 12: clandestine operation, and having gone through an investigation myself, I
Speaker 12: know how absolutely.
Speaker 16: Impossible it is to trail of this stuff.
Speaker 12: I mean, if you're dealing with people who are not stupid,
Speaker 12: you know they are levels of power because they're intelligent
Speaker 12: people by and large, and they cover their tracks and
Speaker 12: they're not about to be dealing with them through the bookstores.
Speaker 12: I think maybe five years ago you could find that
Speaker 12: sort of thing, but now I think it's been pretty
Speaker 12: much cleaned up time they have.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I went into a bookstore in Austin two years ago
Speaker 1: in daylight, and my experience is the difference between the
Speaker 1: operation and daytime, and daytime is the difference between night
Speaker 1: and day. Yet in daylight, I first bought a magazine
Speaker 1: that had pictures of people of borderline age that could
Speaker 1: have been eighteen, that could have been seventeen, and seventeen
Speaker 1: is legal. And then I had the names of illegal publications.
Speaker 1: I first asked for a register that listed boys by description.
Speaker 1: It was a catalog order a boy.
Speaker 3: I asked for that bookstore here in Austin's.
Speaker 1: A crime to print that, to reproduce it, to distribute it,
Speaker 1: to buy it, to possess it. I broke the law
Speaker 1: by saying I want that, and the guy reached under
Speaker 1: the counter handed it to me, and I said what
Speaker 1: about this? And he handed me that, and I said
Speaker 1: what about this one? He handed me one more, and
Speaker 1: I walked out of there with a lot of illegal goods.
Speaker 1: It was in the daytime. I understand that as of
Speaker 1: now nineteen eighty one, the same bookstores don't let somebody
Speaker 1: they don't know do that sort of thing, even at night.
Speaker 1: But I've been in places in Houston within the last
Speaker 1: several months. One in particular I can describe. You had
Speaker 1: forty cubicles where supposedly men go in and put in
Speaker 1: quarters to watch dirty movies, and outside every cubicle was
Speaker 1: a little boy. I was approached both by little boys
Speaker 1: as if I were a man who might want a boy,
Speaker 1: and I was approached by older men who, in the
Speaker 1: dark thought I looked young. That was on a weeknight,
Speaker 1: not on Friday or Saturday in Houston.
Speaker 16: When I started following up.
Speaker 12: Some films that we heard were circulating in the Houston area,
Speaker 12: I called an old friend of mine while I was
Speaker 12: investigating another case involved in this, because we heard that
Speaker 12: it had been viewed by the District Turns office in Houston.
Speaker 16: This friend was a good.
Speaker 12: Friend who had known through from bars, you know, I mean,
Speaker 12: in a very social atmosphere, not a professional one. I
Speaker 12: called him to ask about if he had heard anything
Speaker 12: about this film or viewed it himself. Perhaps he answered
Speaker 12: the phone, I said hello, and we chatted for him,
Speaker 12: and I said, by the way, have you heard anything
Speaker 12: about this film? And he cut me off and said,
Speaker 12: I've never talked to you before in my life boom,
Speaker 12: and I've never talked to him again. And I've known
Speaker 12: this guy for a couple of years. As sin as
Speaker 12: I mentioned that film, It's like.
Speaker 1: When Boyce for Sale was shown on TV. It was
Speaker 1: shown first as a nightly series and then there was
Speaker 1: a summary program. The biggest bank in Houston withdrew its
Speaker 1: advertising from the show and from the station because it
Speaker 1: showed that program. And the bank managed to get the
Speaker 1: other advertisers for that program to withdraw their advertisings.
Speaker 12: And if I might interject this just for a moment,
Speaker 12: because it was it ties into the power problems I
Speaker 12: remember originally with the Robert Anderson, the pharmacists we talked
Speaker 12: about earlier. One of the items found in his apartment
Speaker 12: was a wallet or checkbook I.
Speaker 16: Guess, with the student's address the name on it.
Speaker 12: Well, we started make some phone calls and try to
Speaker 12: contact this person. We finally got through to his father
Speaker 12: and it turned out it was one of the major
Speaker 12: banks in Dallas. His father was the bank president, and
Speaker 12: we thought we had a hot league going. And next thing,
Speaker 12: I know, I can't mention the names here, but a
Speaker 12: very powerful law enforcement agency head called us that we
Speaker 12: were asking about this individual's name in Dallas, and he
Speaker 12: called us back and said, and it was so cryptic
Speaker 12: that it was unusual. He just said, all I can
Speaker 12: say is forget Dallas, you know, like, don't touch it.
Speaker 13: The Texas House Committee has been charged with looking at
Speaker 13: the problem. To public hearings later, the committee has been
Speaker 13: unable to make any serious progress. Its budget was slashed
Speaker 13: from eighty thousand to fifteen thousand dollars, hardly enough to
Speaker 13: do an honest probe, and the committee chairman admits to
Speaker 13: knowing of the problem in Houston, but says he's been
Speaker 13: told to back off.
Speaker 18: When we started this committee, we asked for money to
Speaker 18: do an adequate investigation to determine just how serious the
Speaker 18: problem of child pornography, child prostitution, sexual exploitation is here
Speaker 18: in Texas, which I think is a proper thing for
Speaker 18: this committee to do.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 18: That was the first indication that we had pressure on it's.
Speaker 18: The second indication was when I appeared before the House
Speaker 18: Administration Committee when they chopped our budget, and subsequent conversations
Speaker 18: with certain members that said we have got to stop
Speaker 18: our investigation.
Speaker 5: Hey, did they want you to stop?
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I have no find out I
Speaker 1: plan to find out.
Speaker 18: I think it's serious that they were getting this kind
Speaker 18: of pressure.
Speaker 2: The concluding program of Boys for Sale will emphasize the
Speaker 2: law enforcement and judicial performances, the handling of the subject
Speaker 2: by the mass media, and will provide a more intimate
Speaker 2: understanding of the lives of the children involved.
Speaker 1: There is big business morgan ice crime. It's sophisticated. It's
Speaker 1: closely attached to the major financial, commercial, industrial, educational institutions
Speaker 1: of our society. It's run by the same people who
Speaker 1: run those. It's frequented by the same people who occupy
Speaker 1: management positions in those. It's not the mafia. It's an
Speaker 1: adjunct of clean business. It's serving the most respectable people
Speaker 1: we have in our society, the people who are the elite.
Speaker 2: In our previous program, the first section of this two
Speaker 2: part series on boys for Sale, the widespread use and
Speaker 2: abuse of youths for the gratification of various men around
Speaker 2: the country, we talked about the general nature, who's involved,
Speaker 2: what kids, where they come from, how they got involved
Speaker 2: in it, the nature of the men themselves, the ages,
Speaker 2: the fact that they come from the highest the socio
Speaker 2: and economic and political stratum of American society, the fact
Speaker 2: that this is a very widespread thing and that it
Speaker 2: is hushed up generally, and it's extremely violent. Kids are killed,
Speaker 2: Many kids are killed and tortured every year as well
Speaker 2: as abused. Tom Philpott is still with US History Professor
Speaker 2: University of Texas. Mark McKinnon, form editor of The Daily Texan.
Speaker 2: But before we get into tonight's program further, we will
Speaker 2: review some of the most important points of the first
Speaker 2: section of Boys for Sale for people who may not
Speaker 2: have seen the first program.
Speaker 8: Investigations in other cities have shown that boys thirteen, fourteen,
Speaker 8: even younger are coerced into prostitution with threats of physical violence,
Speaker 8: and are sometimes shipped across state lines shipped to the
Speaker 8: older adult men who desire young boys for sexual acts.
Speaker 8: Occasionally these boys episodes were their older clients ends in
Speaker 8: physical violence. There are men who seek young boys to
Speaker 8: torture and sometimes to kill.
Speaker 1: The President's Commission on Obscenity found This is the commission
Speaker 1: that Richard Nixon repudiated. It mentioned in passing that child
Speaker 1: pornography was a phenomenon of the abuse of children, and
Speaker 1: then went on to say that for every female prostitute
Speaker 1: of any age. In the United States, there are nine
Speaker 1: boys underage who are prostitutes. And there was a callboy
Speaker 1: ring operated out of New York City which had phone
Speaker 1: hook ups with Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. And that callboy ring had a list of
Speaker 1: ten thousand clients who could call and with a credit
Speaker 1: card purchase a boy. Hello.
Speaker 12: Hello, this is credit card number six, seven, eight nine.
Speaker 12: I'd like to make an order. Please go ahead. I'm
Speaker 12: looking for young male, blonde hair, blue eyes, body hair
Speaker 12: or nobody here, thick body hair?
Speaker 5: Please?
Speaker 1: What age ten to twelve? Butch or fem butch?
Speaker 5: Please?
Speaker 1: What is your address?
Speaker 12: I'm at the Houston Marriott Hotel, Room three thirteen.
Speaker 1: Wire me two hundred dollars now by a credit card
Speaker 1: and you have one hundred dollars in cash for the boy.
Speaker 1: He'll be there in thirty minutes. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1: In Houston. I give the figure based on I think
Speaker 1: prudent calculations. Upwards of three hundred and fifty boys a
Speaker 1: year are killed deliberately. Because of this, many more die
Speaker 1: of drug overuse, male nutrition, of suicide. The national toll
Speaker 1: per year is in the thousands. Every year, kids violently
Speaker 1: because of this, and to the best of my knowledge,
Speaker 1: most men who seek sex from boys are not homosexuals
Speaker 1: to the extent that they have active sex lives at
Speaker 1: the peer level. They are heterosexual. Many of them have
Speaker 1: no peer sex at all. There are gay people who
Speaker 1: are what we call pederis, that is, men who lust
Speaker 1: after children, especially boys, But it appears to be the
Speaker 1: case that most such men are not gay. That their
Speaker 1: attraction is for young, defenseless children, especially boys, because they're
Speaker 1: more exotic and more forbidden. But it is not a
Speaker 1: matter of gay rights as advocated by practically anybody. This
Speaker 1: is a a much different sort of phenomenon. The reason
Speaker 1: that the gay community usually scorns any investigation of the
Speaker 1: subject is that they know that the average person in
Speaker 1: the public will blame homosexuals and homosexuality for the phenomenon,
Speaker 1: regardless of what facts are presented.
Speaker 12: Kind of individuals involved are down the line almost in
Speaker 12: every instance in the cases I've investigated, men who are
Speaker 12: very powerful, usually very wealthy, and usually administrate control over
Speaker 12: a large number of people.
Speaker 13: Sixteen year old boy came to us telling how he'd
Speaker 13: started as a prostitute at age twelve and now is
Speaker 13: employed by a large Houston corporation. The corporation pays him
Speaker 13: from a well covered slush fund.
Speaker 17: I'm working right now. You know, look just you know
Speaker 17: with the corporation and wat's that.
Speaker 3: How does that work?
Speaker 17: Well, when they're executives are in their business, people are
Speaker 17: in town, they're sent to our apartment and we entertain
Speaker 17: them while they're here.
Speaker 3: Okay, what's that entertainment usually involved?
Speaker 5: What do they usually demand or what.
Speaker 16: Do they want?
Speaker 17: Well, it's all kinds of sex and perversions. There's no
Speaker 17: two like. I've decided that.
Speaker 2: Subsequent to the making of this interview, this boy's mutilated
Speaker 2: body was found.
Speaker 1: It's closely attached to the major financial, commercial, industrial, educational
Speaker 1: institutions of our society. It's run by the same people
Speaker 1: who run those. It's frequented by the same people who
Speaker 1: occupy management positions in those. It's not the mafia, it's
Speaker 1: it's an adjunct of clean business. It's serving the most
Speaker 1: respectable people we have in our society, the people who
Speaker 1: are the elite.
Speaker 13: A Texas House committee has been charged with looking at
Speaker 13: the problem. To public hearings later, the committee has been
Speaker 13: unable to make any serious progress. Its budget was slashed
Speaker 13: from eighty thousand to fifteen thousand dollars, hardly enough to
Speaker 13: do an honest pro and the committee chairman admits to
Speaker 13: knowing of the problem in Houston, but says he's been
Speaker 13: told to back off.
Speaker 18: When we started this committee, we asked for money to
Speaker 18: do an adequate investigation to determine just how serious.
Speaker 16: The problem of child pornography, child.
Speaker 18: Prostitution, sexual exploitation is here in Texas, which I think
Speaker 18: is a proper thing for this committee to do. Now,
Speaker 18: that was the first indication that we had pressure on it's.
Speaker 18: The second indication was when I appeared before the House
Speaker 18: Administration Committee when they chopped our budget, and subsequent conversations
Speaker 18: with certain members that said we have got to stop
Speaker 18: our investigation.
Speaker 5: Hey, do they want you to stop?
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 5: I have no plan to find out.
Speaker 1: I plan to find out.
Speaker 18: I think it's serious that they were getting this kind
Speaker 18: of pressure.
Speaker 2: Let's continue you talking about this situation. You have a
Speaker 2: story here which kind of is good for several aspects
Speaker 2: of who's involved, what happens to them, and what doesn't
Speaker 2: happen to them.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll read a wire's service release which came out
Speaker 1: of Dallas, and which said at the top, broadcaster's note
Speaker 1: nature and repeated broadcasters note nature and also said note
Speaker 1: discretionary material. Here's the copy. A thirty year state Human
Speaker 1: Resources Department employee has been arrested in Dallas and charges
Speaker 1: of sexually abusing a child. The Department human Resources officials
Speaker 1: say fifty five year old Howard Ray Parker was suspended
Speaker 1: yesterday from his job as medical Services programs director at Statewide.
Speaker 1: Police say they found two to three hundred pictures of
Speaker 1: nude boys in Parker's home. Officers say a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old runaway boy alleged Parker had sex with him while
Speaker 1: he lived with Parker. A spokesman for the Department of
Speaker 1: Human Resources in Dallas says the thirty year veteran employee
Speaker 1: charged on sex offenses has been suspended without pay. It
Speaker 1: goes on to say that this is routine procedure. Repeats
Speaker 1: that he's charged with the abuse of a child he
Speaker 1: picked up on the street as the kid was hitchhiking.
Speaker 1: Says that the boy alleges that Parker kept him in
Speaker 1: that apartment of his for a month and that Parker
Speaker 1: repeatedly attacked him during that time. Police say a search
Speaker 1: of Parker's house and covered two to three hundred photographs
Speaker 1: of boys in various states of attire, and many showed
Speaker 1: them engaging in sex. Now it happens to be the
Speaker 1: case that those boys were charges of the Department of
Speaker 1: Human Resources. And here's what happened in the case. Mister
Speaker 1: Parker went under the care of a psychiatrists. The psychiatrist
Speaker 1: said that prosecution would be damaging to mister Parker and
Speaker 1: prevent his recovery. The judge took that into consideration the
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing and let him go, and the state
Speaker 1: of Texas paid for his psychiatric care and they returned
Speaker 1: him to the job. After his rehabilitation, he went back
Speaker 1: to work. He went back to work.
Speaker 2: What about the kids, Did they do anything to rehabilitate them.
Speaker 1: Whatever they were supposed to be doing in the first place.
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at the children involved and their lives.
Speaker 2: Robin Lloyd, author For Money or Love, the definitive book
Speaker 2: on boy prostitution in America.
Speaker 19: I think that it's been described as a national national horror.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a national horror.
Speaker 2: I think it's a national tragedy.
Speaker 19: I findings are that the boys that get into this,
Speaker 19: as described in the title of the book, for money
Speaker 19: or Love, they're not really in it for the money.
Speaker 19: I think that they're in it for what they perceived
Speaker 19: to be adult attention or adult affection.
Speaker 1: That's where it becomes a tragedy.
Speaker 19: If you take a twelve year old boy who comes
Speaker 19: into a strange town, he's broke, he's cold, he doesn't
Speaker 19: have anything, he's hungry, and then the other street boys
Speaker 19: will tell him, hey, you know, you've got something you
Speaker 19: can sell, and he finds he has this marketable commodity
Speaker 19: I mentioned earlier. So now he goes to the apartment
Speaker 19: with a strange man.
Speaker 16: They go to bed together.
Speaker 19: The next day he's out on the street and he's
Speaker 19: looking for now the same kind of protection that same night.
Speaker 5: Their life is sad. It's one hundred percent sad.
Speaker 6: They get up, you know, one or two or three
Speaker 6: during the day and they go out and they have
Speaker 6: to earn money, and they're treated bad. They eat only
Speaker 6: when they're bad by somebody else, and they never get
Speaker 6: anything for anything. They always have to return sexual favors
Speaker 6: for it. They sometimes get beaten, they get robbed, they
Speaker 6: get pushed, you know, the police abuse them.
Speaker 5: Everybody abuses them of the money.
Speaker 7: Job, stay with somebody out paying bad.
Speaker 9: People. So deep.
Speaker 7: Not buy some shoes or some stops, whatever I.
Speaker 2: Need unless you get to get them for trick.
Speaker 16: You have to be able to make some bugs.
Speaker 7: We get more than five dollars, can you some money?
Speaker 7: But when we need a fair for days of so I.
Speaker 3: Can make money.
Speaker 5: Man, No way you can make money.
Speaker 3: Around these days.
Speaker 7: People want to take them all I can't get you
Speaker 7: walk away the job.
Speaker 20: Most of the kids don't want to be where they are.
Speaker 20: They don't want to engage in this lifestyle. And if
Speaker 20: you give them help, an awful lot of them, a
Speaker 20: very high percentage of them are quite anxious either to
Speaker 20: go home or to get a job and go back
Speaker 20: to school, to live a normal, happy life. They are
Speaker 20: not into this really rotten thing because they like it.
Speaker 20: If they stay in it long enough, they develop attitudes
Speaker 20: that make it very difficult for them to do anything else.
Speaker 20: If you work here in our center and you do
Speaker 20: not develop a bad memory.
Speaker 1: You don't work there very long.
Speaker 20: The tragedies, the violence.
Speaker 21: The the the fact that some of the kids that
Speaker 21: come into us, they're killed because they cannot escape the.
Speaker 20: The exploitation is a very hard thing, is there. Our
Speaker 20: staff does not really last very long here.
Speaker 7: Who's running.
Speaker 22: You?
Speaker 7: Why they do some keep someone?
Speaker 23: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I understandish.
Speaker 7: Well if they have to have many kids?
Speaker 1: What's what's their where?
Speaker 2: Where it is located?
Speaker 1: In music?
Speaker 5: Reported?
Speaker 7: Now I'm not but.
Speaker 1: I don't kill me if they're running slowly?
Speaker 21: Yeah?
Speaker 5: The figures until angles.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 13: The youth then detailed how boys are procured and then
Speaker 13: held by the servians.
Speaker 17: Strictly all the boys, all the boys.
Speaker 11: Oh no, these guys you know, like hitchhikers that are
Speaker 11: hitchhiking and they pick them out.
Speaker 9: Give me the place to stay in intel them.
Speaker 16: You owe us.
Speaker 5: All fairly young?
Speaker 1: Very what's the youngest?
Speaker 13: Wow?
Speaker 7: No, ninety years old?
Speaker 21: Well this is when little kids still but they have
Speaker 21: all the way up to what eighteen twenty twenty?
Speaker 1: Do they provide y'all with protection?
Speaker 5: Are they protected? Well?
Speaker 6: Vice doesn't touch them, But you don't know why or
Speaker 6: do you know what?
Speaker 5: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: All I know is vice doesn't touch them.
Speaker 5: Do they teach the kids how to performance? Actually at
Speaker 5: this place they teach be like, well, you usually did
Speaker 5: get some good trainer.
Speaker 1: What happens if a kid won't perform, they kind of
Speaker 1: get down and prettgether.
Speaker 5: No, they just get rid of the well how they
Speaker 5: keep it quiet?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I sell you what?
Speaker 5: Well did you say that break a finger or two?
Speaker 3: Have they done that.
Speaker 5: Fun of you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I mean tone it a couple of times some john
Speaker 7: you know, they didn't pay up.
Speaker 5: One time they came into the room and he's broken.
Speaker 8: Figure boys told her undercover investigator, a former drug rehabilitation
Speaker 8: counselor and sex therapist, that they are not proud of
Speaker 8: what they do.
Speaker 16: You don't let home.
Speaker 7: I go home once a wild Your mother know you
Speaker 7: do that.
Speaker 1: She didn't care.
Speaker 10: She don't like me come around the house too much.
Speaker 10: It's all kind of fact. If I do that, she'll
Speaker 10: like to come around.
Speaker 7: Why not? She said? She just don't like for some
Speaker 7: being pass and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: That was your houseld.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this dude wanted to take some pictures of him
Speaker 6: four hundred dollars to night.
Speaker 2: You know stuff that.
Speaker 7: This is stupid stuff seven Yeah, why do you say stupid?
Speaker 2: You're doing it?
Speaker 9: Well, hey, you gotta leave.
Speaker 2: I'm ashamed of it.
Speaker 1: You're ashamed of sure?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 16: Hey? Man, I wasn't brought up this way.
Speaker 13: What kind of family do you think?
Speaker 9: I had?
Speaker 5: Real nice people?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know it was me that missed their parents.
Speaker 7: Know what you're doing? Oh no, she know.
Speaker 9: I've never let know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, suspect, and I've heard them too many ways already.
Speaker 11: Well, the reason I'm here is, you know when I
Speaker 11: was thirteen years well, I was ten years old when
Speaker 11: my mom got remarried.
Speaker 9: And when she did this thing she married, came.
Speaker 11: Into my room and rake me, and they had to
Speaker 11: take me to the hospital and put three stitches in me.
Speaker 5: When you were ten?
Speaker 11: Yeah, so then what and I'll leave the home when
Speaker 11: I when I turned thirteen, I just, you know, packed
Speaker 11: up my bags a truck on what do.
Speaker 5: Your parents think you're doing? What your mother think you're doing?
Speaker 21: That?
Speaker 9: I don't know what they think. I haven't written him
Speaker 9: a letter since year before last.
Speaker 5: They don't care, you know.
Speaker 13: No, This boy was partially a victim of poverty. On
Speaker 13: the streets, though you find boys from veried backgrounds. One
Speaker 13: fifteen year old from a wealthy family and tells of
Speaker 13: being cast out because he was failing in school. His
Speaker 13: parents are divorced. Either his father nor his mother wants.
Speaker 3: To care for him.
Speaker 13: He started out as a prostitute when he was twelve.
Speaker 9: You gotta keep using his Yeah, I mean, you know
Speaker 9: it was a fifteen year old going to get a job.
Speaker 5: Isn't too likely? What do you think about what you do?
Speaker 5: Pro No?
Speaker 9: I think disgusting before you know.
Speaker 5: Right when through something was disgusting and.
Speaker 1: Sleep.
Speaker 9: The worst I could do is kill me.
Speaker 5: Well that's pretty bad. Yeah, I mean, aren't you worried
Speaker 5: about that? Don't you value you're living?
Speaker 17: No?
Speaker 5: Right now, I don't know value your life?
Speaker 9: Not really.
Speaker 5: You don't want to stay alive.
Speaker 11: I mean I want to stay alive in all but
Speaker 11: you know, I find I what I mean, it can't
Speaker 11: be much for it? I mean, is it that bad
Speaker 11: out there?
Speaker 5: Don't you? Did you look forward to the day when
Speaker 5: you get a good job?
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's all I can do is look forward, you know,
Speaker 9: live each day as it comes.
Speaker 5: So you're really not happier.
Speaker 9: No, I'm much rather be at home.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, down in Houston they have streets where they hustle,
Speaker 2: which you don't find in some other cities.
Speaker 1: Right, that's right?
Speaker 2: What kind of now this is? Apparently these are the
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs as the DC guy talked about, right.
Speaker 1: These are cold little kids looking for money to buy
Speaker 1: some food, money to get a room, hope, with some
Speaker 1: privacy with somebody. If they can't get any privacy to
Speaker 1: put it in. The blood is terms. At two in
Speaker 1: the morning, when the bars close, the boys who've had
Speaker 1: only one customer that night and need more money, or
Speaker 1: haven't had any customers at all, start bidding against each
Speaker 1: other for the favors of whatever pederists are patrolling in
Speaker 1: the street.
Speaker 3: You've actually observed it.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, that's at two o'clock. It lasts for about
Speaker 1: an hour, a little longer, and then some kids are left,
Speaker 1: and many of them have nowhere to go. They might
Speaker 1: have what they call a trick pad that they can
Speaker 1: go to, and I hope they get the twenty five
Speaker 1: bucks to pay the rent there the next day. I've
Speaker 1: seen them climb under cars to get shelter and warmth
Speaker 1: to Yes, at four in the morning on this one
Speaker 1: night in November when it was cold and the boys
Speaker 1: had t shirts on that jacket and they didn't have jackets.
Speaker 3: Here mostly destitute where you might say street people.
Speaker 1: Well, they might come from well to do homes, Doug,
Speaker 1: but when they're gone for a few months, they are
Speaker 1: now poor. A rough count that I made was that
Speaker 1: there were four hundred kids in an area of half
Speaker 1: a square mile is let me finish the story. The
Speaker 1: police then came and rounded them up in vans, and
Speaker 1: I heard over police radio that their count was that
Speaker 1: there were four hundred kids, and they drove them to
Speaker 1: a suburb of Houston called Pasadena and let them out.
Speaker 2: Why did they do that.
Speaker 1: They did it because if they formally arrested them, they
Speaker 1: would have had to book them and put them someplace,
Speaker 1: and they had no room for them. If they had
Speaker 1: room for them, they couldn't have protected them from other
Speaker 1: people in the jails. They didn't have the heart to
Speaker 1: arrest them. Technically, they arrested them by taking them into custody,
Speaker 1: but they didn't have the heart to do anymore. They
Speaker 1: wanted to clean up the street because this was the
Speaker 1: week before the national election in nineteen eight. They had
Speaker 1: no place to find shelter for them because there were
Speaker 1: only forty two beds in the whole city, and some
Speaker 1: of those were questionable as to their safety for the boys,
Speaker 1: so they took them for a ride and let them out.
Speaker 1: They didn't have anything else to do.
Speaker 2: Tom Is race a factor here, and if so, in
Speaker 2: what degree, what extent?
Speaker 1: It's a factor in a surprising way, Frank, We've already
Speaker 1: mentioned that, maybe not emphatically enough, that these kids are poor.
Speaker 1: Once they're out on the street. Even if they come
Speaker 1: from middle class families, they become poor. But overwhelmingly the
Speaker 1: runaway kids are from poor families, from struggling families. You
Speaker 1: would assume then that they would be heavily minority kids.
Speaker 1: This isn't the case. Overwhelmingly the kids who are throwaways,
Speaker 1: runaways who hit the streets and work in the life,
Speaker 1: are white. Part of the reason is that the mark
Speaker 1: among the well to do men four boys is a
Speaker 1: white market. The men want white kids. They don't want Chicanos.
Speaker 1: They don't want black kids. They want white kids, fair kids,
Speaker 1: Nordic looking kids, the ideal type.
Speaker 2: It's what about wealthy black or Chicano males.
Speaker 1: They also tend to prefer white kids. You can find
Speaker 1: in what's called the farm league, in the parks, on
Speaker 1: the streets, at the curbs, totally on their own, living
Speaker 1: hand the mouth, roughing it. You can find minority kids,
Speaker 1: but they have a hard time they have a hard
Speaker 1: time getting customers. Mostly they get employed in the dark. Literally,
Speaker 1: they work in the cubicles in the magazine stores where
Speaker 1: their customers won't see them. There's an ugly term called
Speaker 1: glory whole for the kind of thing that happens in
Speaker 1: the cubicles. I think the name is suggestive enough itself
Speaker 1: what it means. It means that the customer doesn't have
Speaker 1: to see the person who's servicing him, and then the
Speaker 1: person who's getting the service fantasizes that the little boy
Speaker 1: is blonde and blue eyed and white.
Speaker 2: Also Atlanta them. You were talking in the previous program
Speaker 2: about this being the situation with the Atlanta kids.
Speaker 1: Well, I think they are indications as I said that
Speaker 1: the kids there are hustlers. They are hustlers who are
Speaker 1: out working to help their families. They are not throwaways,
Speaker 1: they are not runaways. And they are in the farm circuit.
Speaker 1: They're working out of a park, they're not in the penthouses.
Speaker 1: They're not in callboy services. Black kids are out there
Speaker 1: working and they're not getting the best trade. They're getting
Speaker 1: what it's called rough trade. Men who will pay less
Speaker 1: and want more and be more likely to inflict violence
Speaker 1: as part of the price. Another thing I'd like to
Speaker 1: say here is that, on the basis of what I've
Speaker 1: learned over the last three years, I have a feeling.
Speaker 1: It's not a firm conclusion by any means, but it's
Speaker 1: a strong feeling that there's a second reason why the
Speaker 1: kids out there caught up in this are primarily white.
Speaker 1: The first reason is that the rich men want white boys.
Speaker 1: I think there's a second reason, and that is that
Speaker 1: poor struggling black families are taking better care of their
Speaker 1: kids than white families are. They're not pushing them out,
Speaker 1: The boys aren't running away, They're keeping the contact with home,
Speaker 1: even if they do have to resort to this for
Speaker 1: economic reasons. And when the families find out it's happening,
Speaker 1: they accept the kids and they love them, and they
Speaker 1: don't punish them, reject them and throw them out.
Speaker 2: What about the kids themselves, what happens to them, assuming
Speaker 2: they're ones that live, and can they get out of
Speaker 2: the life, and what happens to them when they do?
Speaker 5: What do they like?
Speaker 1: In the first place? They mostly don't survive. They mostly
Speaker 1: literally don't live to be twenty years old. As far
Speaker 1: as I know, the best information I have is that
Speaker 1: these kids die, they waste away, they kill themselves, somebody
Speaker 1: kills them, and that's it. And we're talking about over half.
Speaker 1: Over half of the kids who make their living this
Speaker 1: way for a period don't survive adolescents. They don't become adults.
Speaker 1: Those who do have a tremendously difficult time.
Speaker 19: Of course, it does damage. It does tremendous damage to
Speaker 19: self esteem. You have to grow up with a general
Speaker 19: business towards us, towards adults where you find with all
Speaker 19: these strangers now into your life, where you're literally being
Speaker 19: used to pour it over the mutilated.
Speaker 24: It's not even damage is a quiet word for the
Speaker 24: mutilation of a child spirit. We cannot take a seven
Speaker 24: or eight year old and think that seven or eight
Speaker 24: year old has the same sexual needs and drives and
Speaker 24: concepts as you were.
Speaker 3: Not.
Speaker 24: We have to realize that children see things differently, use
Speaker 24: material differently, and have different ways of integrating experience. Children
Speaker 24: cannot integrate anal sodomy at eight or nine.
Speaker 1: The fact is it's all they know how to do,
Speaker 1: it's all they're good at. I came to know very
Speaker 1: well a twenty two year old hustler masquerading as a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old for whom friends and I were able
Speaker 1: to find a job, but it wasn't a good enough
Speaker 1: job for him. He knew the risks. Over the years,
Speaker 1: he although he was white blonde, he had to do
Speaker 1: more and more and more for less and less and less,
Speaker 1: turned more and more tricks a.
Speaker 2: Day as he got older.
Speaker 1: As he got older, one of the things that I
Speaker 1: know happened to him and the last year was that
Speaker 1: he had to be subjected to penetration with bottles, and
Speaker 1: the men played the game of whether or not they'd
Speaker 1: break the bottle off in him or not and cut
Speaker 1: him that kind of thing. When he was seventeen, he
Speaker 1: didn't have to do that, and he got more money.
Speaker 1: At twenty two, he pretended he was sixteen. The man
Speaker 1: pretended he was sixteen. He got less money. He had
Speaker 1: to turn more tricks, but he didn't know what else
Speaker 1: to do. He felt it was the one thing he
Speaker 1: was good at. He also admitted to being miserable.
Speaker 3: What are some of the legal problems here? How come
Speaker 3: we one have won the organization that's exploiting these boys
Speaker 3: hasn't been uncovered, and two the men who are participating
Speaker 3: in these crimes again well, take.
Speaker 1: The boy's homes. For instance, in the case in San Antonio,
Speaker 1: which is still pending, there was an eyewitness who walked
Speaker 1: into the room of the director of the home in
Speaker 1: four in the morning because he was sure there would
Speaker 1: be a little boy in there, and there was a
Speaker 1: six year old boy in bed with this supposed priest.
Speaker 1: That eyewitness testimony that a boy was in bed with
Speaker 1: an old man doesn't do anything in the courtroom. It
Speaker 1: doesn't prove that there was sex going on. If the
Speaker 1: little boy testifies, who is going to take the word
Speaker 1: of a little boy against the word of, say, a
Speaker 1: real priest.
Speaker 16: And what little boy is going to say that a
Speaker 16: priest violated violated.
Speaker 1: It's a hard arrest to make. It's hard to get
Speaker 1: a warrant, it's hard to get an arrest, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get a conviction, and then it's hard to get
Speaker 1: a real sentence, very hard. Nobody wants to put anybody
Speaker 1: away on this kind of charge because the evidence is
Speaker 1: by its nature.
Speaker 16: Very very shaky, and very controversial as well.
Speaker 12: And that just points to another fast of this problem
Speaker 12: is that it often it's just preferentially ignored by the
Speaker 12: courts and by the police and by society because they
Speaker 12: just don't want to believe it's happening. I remember when
Speaker 12: we did our reports, we thought it significant enough because
Speaker 12: the nature of the case involved some autome personnel and
Speaker 12: citizens that we put it on the front page because
Speaker 12: I was shocked personally by it. And when we printed
Speaker 12: these stories, we just were barraged with letters from people saying, basically,
Speaker 12: I don't want to read this kind of stuff over
Speaker 12: my morning coffee. You know, even though it happened, even
Speaker 12: though we document and we'd gone out of our way
Speaker 12: to make sure that it was all backed up with fact,
Speaker 12: people just refused to want to not only to believe it,
Speaker 12: but to even believe that it happens.
Speaker 16: So that's part of the problem.
Speaker 12: Another part of the problem is, of course, we were
Speaker 12: shocked when we found out the extent and broad nature
Speaker 12: of this problem of pederascy and what all it involves.
Speaker 12: But we were truly shocked when we found out, originally
Speaker 12: initially when we started this year a few years back,
Speaker 12: that the.
Speaker 16: Police department didn't even know what pederasty was.
Speaker 12: I mean, I ran in I won't say the police department,
Speaker 12: but I know that I was dealing with one officer
Speaker 12: and Sex Crimes Division who's no longer in Sex Crimes Division.
Speaker 12: And I was trying to get through my part for
Speaker 12: truth and justice and trying to get to the root
Speaker 12: of the problem. And I said, well, tell me about
Speaker 12: your case history of pederasty, and he just went blank.
Speaker 12: He had no idea what I was talking about. Now,
Speaker 12: to their credit, I will say that the Austin Police
Speaker 12: Sex Crimes Division has come along with since then. But
Speaker 12: if the police don't know what it is, then certainly
Speaker 12: most members of society won't know what it is. So
Speaker 12: when they see it in the papers and editors don't
Speaker 12: know what it is, so they're not going to print
Speaker 12: in the first place. Book Occasionally, when it does go through,
Speaker 12: society just writes it off as an operation.
Speaker 2: Well, how are the police organize? You mentioned sex Crime Division,
Speaker 2: but they have sex Crimes is also the vice squad,
Speaker 2: So what's sex Crimes Division?
Speaker 16: Is a subset of advice.
Speaker 1: You know, it's part of homicide and almost every city
Speaker 1: it's part of homicide. Advice has to do with pornography, obscenity, prostitution,
Speaker 1: things involving consenting adults, which may be crimes that they're
Speaker 1: performed in public or commercially. A sex crime is something
Speaker 1: that involves a direct violation of the law, or involves
Speaker 1: things with kids or child pornography.
Speaker 2: Do you have a feel for, say, the budget and
Speaker 2: the number of personnel and vice squads compared to sex
Speaker 2: crime divisions.
Speaker 1: No, I really don't, frank There's something I ought to
Speaker 1: know more about the emphasis of the.
Speaker 2: City the police department places on why I do in
Speaker 2: Austin at that time Anyway, at that time they had
Speaker 2: three people in the entire sex crimes division, and they
Speaker 2: were so overworked with just you know, that's when they
Speaker 2: choke a rapist was around, what have you, And I
Speaker 2: mean that's that pretty much exhausts their time.
Speaker 12: And they were concerned about the issue. But they just said, Frankly,
Speaker 12: we were not staff. We don't have the personnel to
Speaker 12: do it.
Speaker 1: Rape is a major crime, the incidence is high, Attempted
Speaker 1: rapists common. It's extremely hard to track down rapist. These
Speaker 1: guys are working extremely hard, and then we charge them
Speaker 1: with the duty of cleaning up the streets. And in
Speaker 1: Austin the streets are clean. Houston they're not. But how
Speaker 1: can they go behind the walls and find out what's
Speaker 1: going on indoors. That's extremely hard to do.
Speaker 2: Has there been much investigation by any police or the
Speaker 2: FDI or judicial system of this phenomenon, or is it
Speaker 2: that it's a fairly recent phenomenon, or is it just
Speaker 2: something that they haven't dealt with historically or currently?
Speaker 1: They've been legislative investigations. There was a national investigation a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago looking toward the goal of national
Speaker 1: legislation to protect kids. But no, there hasn't been much.
Speaker 13: There are some who would like to tell us that
Speaker 13: the problem does not exist, But to say Houston is
Speaker 13: a major center for boy prostitution need is to overstate
Speaker 13: the case. That is what the Houston police tell us there.
Speaker 25: Again, it's not we don't have as many male prostitutes
Speaker 25: as we do female prostitutes. But when you start talking
Speaker 25: about juvenile boys fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old, two or
Speaker 25: three cases or too many, and we do have a
Speaker 25: few of those.
Speaker 1: Well, how would you talking about that a little further?
Speaker 13: How would you define the problem of young boy prostitution
Speaker 13: in Houston as far as.
Speaker 25: The size of the problem, Well, I'm not going to
Speaker 25: say it's one of the major problems of our city. Again,
Speaker 25: we have a certain amount of it in its orientagers
Speaker 25: to try to keep the lid on it, to keep
Speaker 25: it from getting any word.
Speaker 8: Listen to Atlanta Police Sex crimes Detective Douglas McCoy, a
Speaker 8: ten year veteran.
Speaker 2: It is almost at this point, especially at this time
Speaker 2: of the year, almost an epidemic.
Speaker 8: Yet only a very few young boys are ever arrested.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy eight, there were seven so far.
Speaker 13: In nineteen seventy nine, we've had three male prostitution charges.
Speaker 8: The facts are the Atlanta Police Department is understaffed. Vice
Speaker 8: and sex crime detectives carry a heavy workload. Rapes, for example,
Speaker 8: are up almost one hundred percent this year. Boy prostitution
Speaker 8: is near the bottom on the priority list.
Speaker 13: Local police have to change their attitudes towards the boys,
Speaker 13: thinking of them more as victims than it's criminals. The
Speaker 13: change in philosophy has worked for the Los Angeles Police
Speaker 13: Department and serves as an example for other cities.
Speaker 26: When you've got a fifteen year old boy out on
Speaker 26: the street selling his body, you've got to understand why
Speaker 26: he's out there.
Speaker 2: It's usually due to a poor home life.
Speaker 26: He's there to obtain the necessities of life, and you've
Speaker 26: got to look at that boy as a victim. Even
Speaker 26: though he's out there committing of the crime of prostitution.
Speaker 26: You still have to look at him as a victim
Speaker 26: and why he's out there.
Speaker 3: When you do bring them in, what do you do
Speaker 3: with them?
Speaker 13: You certainly don't just throw them in the county jail somewhere.
Speaker 22: It takes us anywhere from two to six hours to interview.
Speaker 13: You talked to one of these boys for two to
Speaker 13: six hours when you first get him in.
Speaker 22: Yes, sir, initially they don't have trust in the police
Speaker 22: department because it's usually they have had contact with uniform
Speaker 22: police money and a uniform policement of book. If you
Speaker 22: are runaway and they're sort of leary at the police department,
Speaker 22: we'll sit down and we'll gain the kid's confidence.
Speaker 7: We'll talk to him.
Speaker 2: We'll tell him if he is involved.
Speaker 22: In anything, that he hasn't it anything having him to
Speaker 22: do with sex, that he has done nothing wrong at all,
Speaker 22: and we treat them the best we can. We'll contact
Speaker 22: with the victims and we keep calling them weeks later,
Speaker 22: and we'll go out and we'll buy him lunch. And
Speaker 22: this is weeks later you go out and get together
Speaker 22: and see how the boys are going to on progressing,
Speaker 22: and they call us quite a bit.
Speaker 13: Rehabilitation for young boy prostitutes necessitates a change in the
Speaker 13: way they are handled by penal institutions. In San Francisco,
Speaker 13: boy prostitutes from around the nation congregate near some of
Speaker 13: the Plush's hotels, but in San Francisco a boy prostitute
Speaker 13: who was arrested is given special treatment. Sheriff Richard Hangisto
Speaker 13: has set up a new program to deal with young boys.
Speaker 23: The heterosexual inmates are very likely to use to rape
Speaker 23: the younger person or the person they think has had
Speaker 23: homosexual experiences on the streets. They will take advantage of
Speaker 23: them by force, and sometimes they will be very very brutal.
Speaker 23: It's a problem amongst children, juveniles and adults.
Speaker 2: So what has been your answer here?
Speaker 23: We house the gay inmates separately. We don't mix them
Speaker 23: in with heterosexual population just for that reason, and of
Speaker 23: course the same thing is true with juveniles.
Speaker 13: As you view this problem and people like this come
Speaker 13: in off the street, how.
Speaker 2: Do you handle them?
Speaker 23: Well, what we do here is to do what we
Speaker 23: can to make sure that if there are any psychological
Speaker 23: problems that they're dealt with, and also to try to
Speaker 23: aid them with post release help, giving them opportunities as
Speaker 23: much as we can to find a job, to have
Speaker 23: a place to stay, and to get back on their
Speaker 23: feet so that they don't have to sell their bodies
Speaker 23: to make money.
Speaker 1: Here in Austin, the sex crime unit now is, to
Speaker 1: my observation, a solid unit doing the best it can.
Speaker 1: And they have something that's rare in the whole state.
Speaker 1: They have an officer whose sole job is to counsel
Speaker 1: the victims of sex crimes. She's an old student of
Speaker 1: mine and her friend of mine. Her job was funded
Speaker 1: by the US government. She lost her job in the
Speaker 1: Reagan budget last month and she had to fight lobby
Speaker 1: in the city council to get retained as a police officer.
Speaker 1: They've retained her for a year, but the overall budget
Speaker 1: was cut in her job, you know, will remain in jeopardy,
Speaker 1: and it's a vital job.
Speaker 12: I just dad of the problems of investigation and how
Speaker 12: Tom and I learned.
Speaker 16: About all this.
Speaker 12: We just finally realized that Tom thankfully has carried on
Speaker 12: an updated.
Speaker 16: Material and kept close look.
Speaker 12: My full participation only lasts for a period of about six
Speaker 12: months to a year when you were a reporter, when
Speaker 12: I was a reporter, and myself in another former editor
Speaker 12: of the Daily Texan, just as soon as we got
Speaker 12: hooked on it, I mean, as soon as we found
Speaker 12: out what was going on, we went after it with
Speaker 12: entire abandon for a good period of three to six months.
Speaker 12: Almost every day we spent, we forgot our classes, we
Speaker 12: forgot our work at the newspaper. We just we were
Speaker 12: determined to get to the root of it. And after
Speaker 12: six months we had touched the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 12: And we realized at that time, spending inordinate amounts of time, money,
Speaker 12: and energy which we didn't have to spend already, that
Speaker 12: we needed to be funded by some sort of organization
Speaker 12: much larger than ourselves and a staff much larger than
Speaker 12: ourselves to continue it, to find out really what was
Speaker 12: going on. So I can see how law enforcement agencies,
Speaker 12: with what little funding they have, particularly during attacks times
Speaker 12: such as ours, it's hard to do. And as I said,
Speaker 12: the more we found out, the more questions popped up
Speaker 12: in a deeper because many things, if it's all right
Speaker 12: to range around a little bit here, it ought to
Speaker 12: be said that in academia there's been virtually no contribution.
Speaker 1: I learned about this whole phenomenon as a teacher when
Speaker 1: a student of mine called my attention to the TV
Speaker 1: documentary Boys for Sale, which was made in Houston. As
Speaker 1: embarrassed that I didn't know anything about the subject, mentioned
Speaker 1: it to sociologists, anthropologists, psychologists, social workers. They didn't know
Speaker 1: anything about it either. Then I went into the bibliography
Speaker 1: and found that it was first meager and second heavily
Speaker 1: oriented towards the defense and explication of the pederist. Like
Speaker 1: the lawyer's commentary I quoted to you. Is considered a
Speaker 1: dirty subject and people aren't supposed to go into it.
Speaker 1: Every semester when I lecture on it, I have students
Speaker 1: get up and walk out. I used to have complaints
Speaker 1: made to the department, to the college, to the university,
Speaker 1: and so on that I was doing pornographic things in
Speaker 1: the classroom. That's abated, but people still get upset and
Speaker 1: walk out, maybe not because they are offended, but because
Speaker 1: they're emiserated by it and they want to get away
Speaker 1: from it.
Speaker 2: People don't like to look at reality well.
Speaker 1: Especially this stuff is horrible at any rate. If the
Speaker 1: police department from any major city went over to the
Speaker 1: major educational institution in its area and asked for a
Speaker 1: contribution from the faculty, that faculty could contribute practically nothing.
Speaker 1: Academics have been not necessarily remiss. They have been oblivious
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you, unless you it would compromise your
Speaker 2: information system, how do you go about getting your information?
Speaker 1: Observation, interviewing and interviewing of many kinds, Interviewing kids, interviewing
Speaker 1: people who are willing to talk, were on the other
Speaker 1: side of the street, so to speak, and investigators.
Speaker 3: Have you written any books or are you planning any
Speaker 3: articles or studies on this?
Speaker 1: I'm working on a book and I expect it will
Speaker 1: not be the last book that I'll write about the subject,
Speaker 1: and I'll be teaching a course on it in the spring,
Speaker 1: and as far as I know, it'll be the first
Speaker 1: one ever taught in an American college.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about the mass media treatment. We've kind
Speaker 2: of hit on it here and there from what I
Speaker 2: seem to get the electronic media, particularly a couple of
Speaker 2: TV stations. I've done most of the work on it,
Speaker 2: and the newspapers haven't done much. The exception of Mark
Speaker 2: and get well right with the exception of the Texan.
Speaker 16: Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 12: Throughout all the things that we did, we thought, and
Speaker 12: perhaps we were in a minority, but we thought it
Speaker 12: was information that was in the best public interest to
Speaker 12: know or at least be exposed to.
Speaker 16: Was not touched by any other local media.
Speaker 3: Do you have any explanation for this? Why didn't the
Speaker 3: Austin American Statesman pick up on it? I really don't
Speaker 3: know the TV did you ever take it to them?
Speaker 12: But actually I think the Statesman did run one or two.
Speaker 12: I think they ran the initial story about Anderson the
Speaker 12: pharmacist being and that's what sparked our interests.
Speaker 3: And of course did you ever talk to the reporter
Speaker 3: that did that story and see why they didn't pursue there?
Speaker 12: No, I don't think I did. I think we got
Speaker 12: so wrapped up in what we were doing.
Speaker 2: What about down in Houston? Is there any evidence of
Speaker 2: pressure to keep the lid on down there?
Speaker 1: Well? When Boyce Versale was shown on TV, it was
Speaker 1: shown first as a nightly series and then there was
Speaker 1: a summary program which you'll have excerpts of the biggest
Speaker 1: bank in Houston with Drewitt's advertising from the show and
Speaker 1: from the station because showed that program.
Speaker 2: But they didn't. They didn't withdraw it until the.
Speaker 1: Last not the last minute. They kept saying, if you
Speaker 1: don't kill that program tonight, we're going to withdraw our advertising.
Speaker 1: And they did, and the bank managed to get the
Speaker 1: other advertisers for that program to withdraw their advertisings. The
Speaker 1: Houston Post and the Houston Chronicle. Again, that story I
Speaker 1: mentioned in the previous program about the bust of this
Speaker 1: mansion with this incredibly elaborate film studio in it emerges
Speaker 1: in the Post and the Chronicle as a little place
Speaker 1: with some cameras.
Speaker 12: Yeah, and the problem is not so much that the
Speaker 12: incidents are ignored, but there's never any follow up. There's
Speaker 12: never any investigation. They just take the easy way out.
Speaker 12: Something happened, boom, it happened next day, it is forgotten.
Speaker 12: What we need in the media's follow up an investigation
Speaker 12: on everybody's part so that we won't so that will
Speaker 12: become sensitized to the issue.
Speaker 3: You had some threats of physical violence also in you
Speaker 3: were doing this investigation.
Speaker 16: Well, this we were working with some people from Houston.
Speaker 12: I knew a lot more about it than we did,
Speaker 12: and they, of course counseled us and said, beware, I
Speaker 12: had my windshield broken in, I mean a brick thrown
Speaker 12: through my windshield.
Speaker 16: Is I don't know if that was.
Speaker 12: Entirely coincidentally, sincerely doubt is because the timing and nature.
Speaker 2: Well, this may be one very good reason why there
Speaker 2: hadn't been warning, why there hadn't been a lot of
Speaker 2: investigative reporting. Now well, in the Houston, the shotgun incident
Speaker 2: has had some problem.
Speaker 1: Well, the moderator of the show Voice for Sale had
Speaker 1: a shotgun go through blast go through his window, and
Speaker 1: then another one go through his uh, then his window
Speaker 1: of his home, and then another blast go through the
Speaker 1: windshield of his car as he was approaching the car
Speaker 1: to get into it. That kind of signal usually sufficient
Speaker 1: to warn a person off. Any one of us in
Speaker 1: the country, and there aren't very many of us who
Speaker 1: have worked intensely on this for a period of years.
Speaker 1: Has received threats and has been subject to at least
Speaker 1: feigned attempts, and the idea is that that should scare
Speaker 1: us off. It has worked with a whole lot of people.
Speaker 2: The day after part one of Boys for Sale was
Speaker 2: Cable cast. Tom Philpott's van was vandalized, the tires were
Speaker 2: slashed and the accelerator was jammed to the floor. And
Speaker 2: then the following week Tom was shot in what appears
Speaker 2: to have been an assassination attempt. Has anybody been killed? Actually?
Speaker 12: What about the guy that wrote the book? That he
Speaker 12: got a sunken blast that did wound him? I think
Speaker 12: pretty seriously, didn't it?
Speaker 3: Well, what then should society do about this? How can
Speaker 3: this problem be dealt with?
Speaker 1: Well, it's a tall question. Law enforcement has to has
Speaker 1: to be activated, and it has to be supported and
Speaker 1: has to be seen through the end of the procedure
Speaker 1: so that you don't have congressmen pleading not guilty or
Speaker 1: no contender and getting no penalty. The kids who are
Speaker 1: rescued in this process have got to be cared for
Speaker 1: and helped, and no one really knows how to do it,
Speaker 1: but it's got to be done. A way has got
Speaker 1: to be found. They've got to be helped, and then,
Speaker 1: most obviously, we've got to find a way to re
Speaker 1: establish a society which does not throw up literally a
Speaker 1: half million kids a year onto the city streets and
Speaker 1: leave them there to be hurt. American families have to
Speaker 1: have support. It's good enough to say the families love
Speaker 1: your children, but they have to have the wherewithal to
Speaker 1: care for their children, and obviously American families do not.
Speaker 1: These kids are not minority kids in the main, but
Speaker 1: they're mainly poor kids. They're from hard driven, hard living families.
Speaker 14: And it's so very, very sad, and it's so sad
Speaker 14: that we need to respond to them. We people who
Speaker 14: who've got our stuff together and who think we know
Speaker 14: a lot about a lot of things. We just need
Speaker 14: to reach out to those kinds of kids.
Speaker 16: We need to go out there and find them.
Speaker 13: How quickly can a city like Houston move in this area?
Speaker 14: Well, we can move as quickly in this areas we
Speaker 14: should as we have been in other areas. We can
Speaker 14: build a billion dollar Houston Center downtown, then we can
Speaker 14: certainly move quickly to solve human problems and problems of people.
Speaker 1: In fin Are we going to do?
Speaker 2: You see a role for big business in Houston in
Speaker 2: this plan?
Speaker 21: Yeah?
Speaker 14: One role is money, you know, and a lot can
Speaker 14: Let's face it, a lot can be done with money.
Speaker 14: A lot of alternatives can be offered if we have
Speaker 14: the money to pay for them.
Speaker 1: And there's enough.
Speaker 14: Excess money in ten corporations in this city to do
Speaker 14: anything we would want to to save every one.
Speaker 2: Of these kids. Jocking as it is, when you put
Speaker 2: in a perspective, maybe it's really not quite so unexpected
Speaker 2: considering the history of what the people have been subject
Speaker 2: to who have been under the control and rule of
Speaker 2: these people. When you start to think about what's been
Speaker 2: done to the Indians, the terrible working conditions that people
Speaker 2: lived in for years and worked under for years, the
Speaker 2: dangerous condition that pesticides that people are forced to ingest,
Speaker 2: the lack of safety, and the places where we work,
Speaker 2: wars where people are slaughtered. There's really a long history
Speaker 2: of this. And is this the same type of impulse
Speaker 2: turned focused just on a small boy, or is this
Speaker 2: something really unique?
Speaker 7: You think.
Speaker 1: That is an easy to answer, frank, because in all honesty,
Speaker 1: this subject has baffled me from the time I first
Speaker 1: became aware of it until this day. I can't understand it,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying very hard, and it's very difficult. As
Speaker 1: an historian. I know that this society, probably above all
Speaker 1: in the world in the history of the world, romanticizes childhood,
Speaker 1: but the historical record child labor, for one thing, indicates
Speaker 1: the society has not been good to children, has not
Speaker 1: protected children. In fact, is contemptuous of children, heartless to children.
Speaker 1: And there's such helpless victims. Who can they go to?
Speaker 1: What constituency do they have? Nobody? The heartlessness that goes
Speaker 1: into it is certainly somehow connected with the heartlessness which
Speaker 1: ground up the Indians, black people, immigrant laborers, poor people
Speaker 1: in general, which is motivating the cuts and social programs today.
Speaker 1: Blindness to the actual living reality of people's situations. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's connected, But this is the It's about the most
Speaker 1: hair raising thing I think I've encountered in studying the
Speaker 1: history of my country. The slaughter of the innocence. It's
Speaker 1: the greatest slaughter of the innocence since Herod. And it
Speaker 1: goes on and on and on, and when the publicans
Speaker 1: a hint of it, nothing happens. The case of Price
Speaker 1: Daniel is instructive there. It came out in the custody
Speaker 1: hearing of Missus Daniel, who admitted to shooting her husband,
Speaker 1: that he attacked their son, and there was testimony that
Speaker 1: he had relations with other adolescents. There wasn't any inquiry
Speaker 1: as to what that might mean for society. Price Daniel
Speaker 1: is one of the major names of Texas and all
Speaker 1: these other names that we've mentioned of people have been
Speaker 1: caught and let off. There doesn't seem to be any
Speaker 1: willingness to make the connections which you have implied and
Speaker 1: face him.
Speaker 2: And it's time we did, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan, Right, It's time we did. There needs to
Speaker 1: be police action, There needs to be action in the
Speaker 1: academy of which I am part to study this. There
Speaker 1: has to be rehabilitation for kids, and most of all,
Speaker 1: American families have got to be put on a footing
Speaker 1: where their children are not in jeopardy of being lost
Speaker 1: in this way. Whole society has got to answer for this,
Speaker 1: do something about it.
Speaker 13: If we don't make this move, what do you think
Speaker 13: the results would be in Houston?
Speaker 14: They'll get worse and worse and worse, and they'll be
Speaker 14: kids killed in the dead of night and dumped on
Speaker 14: the highway like they are right now. It'll get worse.
Speaker 14: It'll never get better. You don't sit back and see
Speaker 14: something like this. It's history is proven there and just
Speaker 14: watch it and it gets better. It'll get worse, much worse.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network.
Speaker 16: Just the facts, ma'amy