Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. To
Speaker 1: join us as we dive into the deep end of
Speaker 1: the unexplainable and try to piece together what happened.
Speaker 2: If you are listening to Locations Unknown, what's up everybody,
Speaker 2: and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm
Speaker 2: your co host Joey Rodwen with me as always as
Speaker 2: a guy who always zipper merges properly. Mike Bandaboguard.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you Joe, and thank you once again to
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Speaker 2: I just love how sick and tired you are, not
Speaker 2: like in a vat like you're just sick and tired. Yes,
Speaker 2: just like full in it fatherhood. Yes, I'm laughing because
Speaker 2: I remember the pain. I actually feel pretty good today.
Speaker 3: I just voices sound like it hasn't come back Yetet
Speaker 3: it's better than the last episode.
Speaker 2: That was fun. Yeah, it was something. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: you all good with your updates? Yes, all right, everybody,
Speaker 2: let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown.
Speaker 2: September twenty twenty five, two experienced elk hunters traveled to
Speaker 2: the rugged backcountry of southern Colorado for what was supposed
Speaker 2: to be an eight day hunting trip in the remote
Speaker 2: South San Juan Wilds. Both men were seasoned outdoorsmen, equipped
Speaker 2: with modern navigation and communication devices, and familiar with the
Speaker 2: challenges that come with operating deep in the wilderness. When
Speaker 2: scheduled check ins suddenly stopped, family members quickly became concerned.
Speaker 2: A massive search effort involving helicopters, search dogs, drones, horseback
Speaker 2: teams and hundreds of volunteers was launched across miles of
Speaker 2: steep mountains, dense timber, and storm battered terrain. For nearly
Speaker 2: a week, rescuers search for the answers, as worsening weather
Speaker 2: and lack of clues deep in the mystery. What began
Speaker 2: as missing persons cases soon captured national attention, leaving many
Speaker 2: to wonder how two capable hunters could seemingly vanish only
Speaker 2: a short distance from their vehicles. This week we investigate
Speaker 2: the disappearance of Andrew Porter and Ian Stasco. So let's
Speaker 2: talk about this episode brings us to the Rio Grande
Speaker 2: National Forest and the South San Juan Wilderness in Conejos County, Colorado.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I said that wrong, and I think I
Speaker 2: think it's Conijos Conihos County, Colorado. A little bit about
Speaker 2: the area they were hunting. The area where Andrew Porter
Speaker 2: and Ian Stasco went missing is high elevation, very rugged
Speaker 2: section of southern San Juan Mountains in far central Colorado,
Speaker 2: centered on the Rio Delos Pinos drainage and Trujelio Meadows
Speaker 2: Reservoir near New Mexico's border, So we'll talk about some
Speaker 2: interesting facts about the area headwaters of Rio Grande. The
Speaker 2: one point eight three million acre Rio Grande National Forest
Speaker 2: exists largely because the eighteen hundred mile Rio Grande River
Speaker 2: begins high in the San Juan Mountains on the forest's
Speaker 2: western side, then flows all the way to the Gulf
Speaker 2: of Mexico, an undiscovered jewel with huge elevation ranges, so
Speaker 2: the forest is described by the Forest Service as one
Speaker 2: of the true undiscovered Jewels of Colorado, spanning everything from
Speaker 2: highday desert Sand Luis Valley floor at about seven thousand,
Speaker 2: six hundred feet to rugged peaks over fourteen three hundred
Speaker 2: feet in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. It is home
Speaker 2: to the world's largest alpine valleys, so the Rio Grande
Speaker 2: National Forest wraps around the San Louis Valley, often cited
Speaker 2: as the world's largest agricultural alpine valley and one of
Speaker 2: the world's largest high deserts. Flat farm and ranch country
Speaker 2: ringed by mountains. The South San Juan Wilderness, about one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty eight thousand acres, is built from ancient
Speaker 2: volcanic carved by glaciers into steep volcanics and carved by
Speaker 2: glaciers into steep slopes above broad u shaped valleys with
Speaker 2: high peaks, cliffs, jagged pinnacles, and ragged ridges that make
Speaker 2: travel legitimately difficult. Sounds like a great place to go hiking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it does, sounds super difficult. But I've never gone that
Speaker 2: far south in Colorado. No, I've never been to that
Speaker 2: corner of Colorado. Yeah. A famous grizzly, often cited as
Speaker 2: a last known Colorado grizzly, was killed in the South
Speaker 2: San Juan Wilderness in nineteen seventy nine, and if any
Speaker 2: grizzlies still survived in Colorado afterwards, biologists long pointed to
Speaker 2: this area's recess as the most likely refuge. So I
Speaker 2: didn't answer the question, Could there still be grizzlies in
Speaker 2: Colorado in that area? Sounds like maybe? Sounds like maybe.
Speaker 2: President Theodore Roosevelt established the Rio Grande National Force by
Speaker 2: proclamation in nineteen oh eight, and decades later, Congress formerly
Speaker 2: designated the South San Juan as Wilderness in the Colorado
Speaker 2: Wilderness Act of nineteen eighty, part of a broader push
Speaker 2: that also protected the nearby Wheeler geologic area. So a
Speaker 2: little bit about the climate. This part of the southern
Speaker 2: San Juan Mountains has a high mountain semi arid climate,
Speaker 2: lots of sun overall, but with frequent convective storms during
Speaker 2: the warm season and long, cold, snowy winters at elevation.
Speaker 2: The broader San Juan region is known for loads of
Speaker 2: sunny days and relatively mild, dry air, but the high
Speaker 2: peaks in a wilderness yilind seem much cooler temperatures and
Speaker 2: significantly more precipitation than lower surrounding valleys. Midwinter is typically
Speaker 2: the wettest time of year in the high mountains, with
Speaker 2: deep snowpacks coming along the divide in in headwater basins.
Speaker 2: Early September in the high San Juans is often described
Speaker 2: by local hikers and backpackers as one of the most
Speaker 2: comfortable times of the year. Daytimes high daytime highs commonly
Speaker 2: run in the sixties to low seventies at mid elevations,
Speaker 2: with nights in the thirties and forties depending on the
Speaker 2: exact elevation and weatherfronts. That actually is like perfect hiking
Speaker 2: weather at ten thousand feet and above, where Andrew and
Speaker 2: Ian were hunting. Those same patterns translate to cool days
Speaker 2: and cold nights, with typical overnight lows in the thirties
Speaker 2: and occasional dips into the twenties. When storms are cold,
Speaker 2: air masses move through. Community reports from people who regularly
Speaker 2: backpack in the San Juans in late August and early
Speaker 2: September note that you can see frosty mornings, a few
Speaker 2: nights near freezing, and even a couple of inches of
Speaker 2: early snow that melts quickly once the sun is up.
Speaker 2: Even during this good weather shoulder season, afternoons and evening
Speaker 2: thunderstorms remain a key feature of the climate. May we
Speaker 2: got that wrong. It should have Beddle since my cousin
Speaker 2: was listening to the show and he's like text me,
Speaker 2: he's likestraddle Seasons Forecasters and local guides warned that the
Speaker 2: San Juan high Country routinely sees showers and thunderstorms building
Speaker 2: most days, with higher chances earlier in the monsoon, which
Speaker 2: is July to August, and still significant but somewhat lower
Speaker 2: frequency into early September. The National Weather Services own forecasts
Speaker 2: for the southwest and eastern San Juan Mountains above ten
Speaker 2: thousand feet routinely shows patterns like mostly sunny than a
Speaker 2: chance of showers and thunderstorms in the afternoon, and showers
Speaker 2: with a chance of thunderstorms on many days, underscoring how
Speaker 2: embedded convective activity is in the seasonal pattern. Those storms
Speaker 2: often bring lightning, its brief but intense downpours, gusty winds,
Speaker 2: rapid temptre drops, especially near the Continental Divide. User reports
Speaker 2: emphasize that there is a thirty percent chance of rain,
Speaker 2: it will rain, and even in early September, lightning and
Speaker 2: wet snow and high peaks are very possible. So this
Speaker 2: is exactly the kind of pattern that was reported in
Speaker 2: the days Andrew and Ian were in the field, Bad
Speaker 2: cold storms and fog rolled through with lightning and deteriorating
Speaker 2: conditions that concern both family and rescuers. Because temperature generally
Speaker 2: drops with elevation, high basins and ridgelines above ten thousand
Speaker 2: feet in the region experienced significantly colder nights than nearby
Speaker 2: valley towns, even when the valley forecasts look mild, Clear
Speaker 2: dry air can produce strong radiational cooling after sunset, leading
Speaker 2: to frosty mornings and thin ice on puddles. Even when
Speaker 2: daytime temperatures feel comfortable, When storms move in, wind, chill
Speaker 2: and wet clothing quickly increase the risk of hypothermia or
Speaker 2: cold stress for anyone caught far from shelter. So that's
Speaker 2: just the weather. Now, let's talk about the terrain. The
Speaker 2: terrain where Andrew Porter and Dan went hunting is classic
Speaker 2: high San Juan Wilderness, steep glaciated mountains above Timberline Valley
Speaker 2: cut by the Rio delos Pinos and its tributaries near
Speaker 2: the Colorado New Mexico border. The area sits in the
Speaker 2: South San Juan Wilderness, an adjacent Rio Grande National Force
Speaker 2: in Conejos County, part of the Southern Rocky Mountain Ecosystem
Speaker 2: or Ecoregion. Elevations run from roughly eight thousand feet in
Speaker 2: the lower river valleys up to thirteen thousand feet on
Speaker 2: surrounding peaks and ridges, with steep slopes dropping into broad
Speaker 2: u shaped glacial valleys that are then insized more deeply
Speaker 2: by modern streams. So the Rio delos Pinos itself rises
Speaker 2: high into the wilderness near the continental Divide, then drops
Speaker 2: thousands of feet towards its confluence with the Conejos River,
Speaker 2: crossing the Colorado New Mexico line more than once. Gay
Speaker 2: Management Unit eighty one and the adjoining valley supports strong
Speaker 2: populations of elk, mule, deer, black bear, and other large mammals.
Speaker 2: The real de Los Pinos Valley itself is described as
Speaker 2: prime el cabitat, with resonant HER's using the river corridor
Speaker 2: and surrounding slopes, so it's like the best spot to
Speaker 2: go out hunting. So yeah, for bow hunters, that's really
Speaker 2: hard to do. I'll hunt with bo. The country offers
Speaker 2: a mix of thick cover, open meadows, and broken ridge
Speaker 2: lines that let annals move between feeding areas betting, timber,
Speaker 2: and water, but visibility can be limited and the terrain
Speaker 2: quickly becomes complex once you leave established trails. So, Mike,
Speaker 2: why don't you tell us a little bit about Andrew
Speaker 2: to start?
Speaker 3: Sure, So I'll try to go through character profiles for
Speaker 3: both pretty quickly here so we can get the timeline.
Speaker 3: So first character is Andrew Porter. He was twenty five
Speaker 3: at the time of his disappearance. He had last contact
Speaker 3: on September eleventh of twenty twenty five, and he was
Speaker 3: reported missing around September twelfth, or thirteenth of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: He was a male age twenty five. He was about
Speaker 3: six feet tall, very physically fit. Wait was not publicly mentioned,
Speaker 3: but he had light brown blonde hair. No detail about
Speaker 3: what eye color he had or any other distinguishing marks, clothing,
Speaker 3: and gear. Last scene in so he was bow hunting
Speaker 3: elk in early archery season and was reported as carrying
Speaker 3: an archery gear, bow arrows, knives, game bags, light hunting clothing,
Speaker 3: and a garment inReach device. He and Ian were not
Speaker 3: carrying firearms and their vehicle was back at the trailhead.
Speaker 3: It still contained other gear that they brought with Medical
Speaker 3: issues for Andrew, there was nothing reported, no chronic conditions
Speaker 3: or anything that would have been a hindrance in him
Speaker 3: piking out in the wilderness occupation. He was living in Asheville,
Speaker 3: North Carolina, and he was described by a lot of
Speaker 3: people as passionate bowhunter, outdoorsman, backcountry enthusiast, and just pretty
Speaker 3: much all about being out in the wilderness and hiking
Speaker 3: and backpacking experience in the wilderness. Multiple people described him
Speaker 3: as a very experienced outdoorsman, experienced hunter. He was familiar
Speaker 3: with multi day backcountry trips and modern tools like satellite messengers.
Speaker 3: He was also very comfortable navigating rugged high elevation train,
Speaker 3: camping off a trailhead for extended archery hunts, and coordinating
Speaker 3: with SAR appropriate gear like in reach for check ins
Speaker 3: and local sharing. So it seems like pretty knowledgeable Joe
Speaker 3: might be pulling up some pictures so experience at this location.
Speaker 3: So Andrew was a non resident hunter in Colorado. So,
Speaker 3: like I said, he's from North Carolina and he came
Speaker 3: to hunting the GMU eighty one, which Joe had briefly
Speaker 3: talked about earlier. While this wasn't his home area, he
Speaker 3: was prepared with mapped trailheads, he had the satellite device,
Speaker 3: and he had planned an eight trip into the South
Speaker 3: San Juan Wilderness, So he was prepared seconds.
Speaker 2: And they seemed like they knew what they were doing.
Speaker 2: They had all the right equipment to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's people that do successfully about half the stuff that
Speaker 2: they came in there with.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I mean much more prepared than a
Speaker 3: lot of the people we discuss on the show. Subject
Speaker 3: two of tonight was Ian Stasco, and he was also
Speaker 3: twenty five at the time of his disappearance same, you know,
Speaker 3: last contact and reported missing because he was hunting with Andrews.
Speaker 3: So a lot of this stuff is going to be
Speaker 3: kind of the same for both of them. Body description
Speaker 3: again very similar, six feet, weight wasn't described. He had
Speaker 3: blonde hair. Again reported very kind of fit and athletic.
Speaker 3: He was again experience with the outdoors, a strong backcountry hunter.
Speaker 3: He didn't have any distinctive tattoos or scars or anything.
Speaker 3: Geary was last scenon very similar to Andrew. They're bow
Speaker 3: hunting elk between the two of them. They had that
Speaker 3: garment in reach device. Looks like we got some pictures
Speaker 3: of them right here. Yeah, I mean they're pretty much
Speaker 3: very similar, same age, same height. Nothing jumps out at me.
Speaker 3: They look just standard year old guys that that would
Speaker 3: hunt in Colorado.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, if you're imagining getting your head, you're correct. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you think about it. You gotta be pretty physically fit
Speaker 3: if you're hunting elk with a bow at elevation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just hauling the meat out of backpacks. If
Speaker 2: you don't have like livestock to help you, it's just
Speaker 2: a ton of work just getting there.
Speaker 3: You got a hike, maybe a day or two just
Speaker 3: to get to your spot. Yeah, so it's not something
Speaker 3: just Grandpa I can do.
Speaker 2: Though, You're gonna have an angry grandpa call and it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, I'll cut the sand moms all the time.
Speaker 2: Like we weren't talking about you, We're we're generalizing most grandpas. Yes,
Speaker 2: most grampa's could do it.
Speaker 3: So personality wise, so Ian described him as again dedicated
Speaker 3: outdoorsmen and hunter who deeply loved the mountains in backcountry.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're gonna find a lot of similarities between
Speaker 3: the two of them. If they're willing to go into
Speaker 3: the back country to hunt elk with a bow and arrow,
Speaker 3: they probably have very similar passions with hiking and going outdoors.
Speaker 3: And Yep, again no chronic medical or physical limitations that
Speaker 3: would have caused the disappearance occupation hobby. So Ian was
Speaker 3: actually living in Salt Lake City at the time, and
Speaker 3: he's framed in reporting is passionate about el counting, back
Speaker 3: country travel, wilderness adventure, and articles about his disappearance very
Speaker 3: similar to Andrew. They'd rather be doing elk hunting or
Speaker 3: hiking or backpacking than pretty much anything else. Sure sounds
Speaker 3: pretty awesome. So I'm just gonna jump right into timeline here. Yes,
Speaker 3: our story starts. It's early September twenty twenty five. Andrew
Speaker 3: Porter and Ian Stasco converge on southern Colorado for an
Speaker 3: eight day el hunt. Like I said earlier, they're both
Speaker 3: physically fit, they have all the gear. They've done it before.
Speaker 3: Their target was Game Management Unit eighty one. Joe briefly
Speaker 3: described this. It's a rugged swath of country stretching from
Speaker 3: the Continental Divide eastward to the Rio Grande and south
Speaker 3: to the state line. He has steep ridges, deep drainages,
Speaker 3: heavy timber, and it's a pretty rugged place. Joe's looks
Speaker 3: like he's pulling up pictures or Google Maps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm live right now. I mean, yep, middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2: That's desolate. It's very desolate. And you can see kind
Speaker 2: of this horseshoe ridge that they always talk about the
Speaker 2: like just catches weather.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks pretty nasty, but also be cool to hike.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'll see if there's any Google street View images
Speaker 2: from literally anywhere. It doesn't look like it. No, yep, Oh,
Speaker 2: here's one on the ridge. Oh, here we go. We
Speaker 2: can look down upon see that it does this all
Speaker 2: the time, like goes to a different spot sometimes weird.
Speaker 2: All right, you can keep going. I'll try and get
Speaker 2: this door. I want to see if this works. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's weird. Maybe they because usually those are private photos. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they could have made them private. I'll try and get
Speaker 2: at least one in the area so we can get
Speaker 2: an idea of what we're looking at. What is going
Speaker 2: on here? All right? You keep going, I'm gonna figure
Speaker 2: out what's going on.
Speaker 3: So they drive to the Rio Delos Patos trailhead in Canaos.
Speaker 2: Did I get there wrong?
Speaker 3: I just Rio Delo's Pinos Cananos.
Speaker 2: Now you know how I feel. You do this to
Speaker 2: me all the time.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: So Canos Canaos County, and they use their garment and
Speaker 3: Reach satellite device so they can check in regularly with
Speaker 3: loved ones from out in the back country with no
Speaker 3: cell service. Before they leave. Andrew and his fiance Bridget
Speaker 3: Murphy agree he will send routine check ins roughly every
Speaker 3: twenty four hours so family can track the hunts progress.
Speaker 3: Now a little excessive, don't you think every twenty four hours?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, if you have an inReach device, you
Speaker 2: just send text.
Speaker 3: I know, but I mean we used to hike all
Speaker 3: the time off grid in like with no lessons of communications.
Speaker 2: That's and that's why we didn't check in. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of nice that you don't have Oh,
Speaker 2: I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously you want the device so if something happens,
Speaker 3: you can contact the authorities. But if I'm like out
Speaker 3: in the back country, I don't want to be checking
Speaker 3: in every twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well maybe you wouldn't care as much if you
Speaker 2: went all the time. I guess it sounds like they
Speaker 2: go all the time, so it's like just a Tuesday. Yeah.
Speaker 3: For us, it's like we never get away. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: let's get away. Yeah, I want to off the grid
Speaker 3: for a week. I'm not talking to anyone.
Speaker 2: Look at this. I finally got it to work. That's beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a little less rugged than I would have thought. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like the way it described this area, it seemed way
Speaker 2: more aggressive. I would think. I would have thought the
Speaker 2: Rackies would have been a little more racky at John
Speaker 2: Denver's full of it.
Speaker 3: That's kind of how I'm feeling a little bit, like
Speaker 3: they made it seem like it was super steep in
Speaker 3: the descriptions.
Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, I mean it looks I mean you're
Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere. So I mean that Google
Speaker 2: Earth never looks as rugged. That's true. That's true. Oh
Speaker 2: that one didn't work this time. This is the basin
Speaker 2: that they would have been around. Okay, so yeah, this
Speaker 2: is probably amazing. L hunting hard with a bow. If
Speaker 2: you'd a rifle, you could prop up right up here
Speaker 2: and like shoot right down in the valley. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is beautiful. I mean that looks pretty far. We have
Speaker 2: to have like a bear it. Oh yeah, there's some
Speaker 2: you should watch Alkiny video.
Speaker 3: There's some dudes that shoot across like this and it's
Speaker 3: like they got to aim like four inches up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it like takes a few seconds. So this
Speaker 2: is beautiful. What time of here is this picture? June
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. I would have thought, like January. I know,
Speaker 2: it looks like it's still like not spring yet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but okay, that's just probably how dry and hot it gets. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my desert.
Speaker 3: Okay, where was I So, like I said, before they leave,
Speaker 3: Andrew agreed to check in every twenty four hours with
Speaker 3: his fiance through the inReach device. And that's fine. If
Speaker 3: I'm going backcountry hiking, I'll make the agreement. If something happens,
Speaker 3: I'll message you, But otherwise I'm I'm going off grid.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: It's now September seventh to the tenth of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: GPS data later assembled by investigators shows Andrew and Ian's
Speaker 3: trip unfolding in a fairly methodical pattern. They spend a
Speaker 3: night at or near the Rio de Los Pinos trailhead,
Speaker 3: then move on foot to a backcountry campsite roughly two
Speaker 3: miles north, where they remain for several days while hunting
Speaker 3: nearby drainages and ridges. During this time, Andrew has been
Speaker 3: using his inReach device to send brief positional updates and
Speaker 3: messages back home, reassuring family that the hunt is underway
Speaker 3: as planned. But things don't go as planned because weather
Speaker 3: in the high country is very unstable. By mid September,
Speaker 3: storms and fog are moving through the San Juan backcountry,
Speaker 3: dropping temperatures and bringing heavy rain to the mountains. The
Speaker 3: men continue hunting despite the changing conditions, relying on their
Speaker 3: experience and the garment to stay linked to home.
Speaker 2: So this is two miles like give or take Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they would have went and that's the start of
Speaker 2: the trail head, so they would have ended up kind
Speaker 2: of right where we were looking at. Yeah, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get a train and get a better view of
Speaker 2: that went through the Yeah, this is actually kind of
Speaker 2: perfect right here, if we can pull that up again,
Speaker 2: because it went from down in the trail head directly
Speaker 2: north two miles. They would have been right on top
Speaker 2: of this. Okay, So they went from down here up
Speaker 2: there and.
Speaker 3: Now in this picture that doesn't look that hard, but
Speaker 3: that's probably like seven hundred feet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot elevation. Those are full sized trees. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like not tiny ones, No, those are the big ones. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and they look like nothing. Yeah, maybe not seven.
Speaker 3: Hundred feet a couple hundred feet, Yeah, don't get it wrong,
Speaker 3: don't eyeball that wrong.
Speaker 2: Probably has an elevation filter. Well, I'm going to try
Speaker 2: and get it on all trails, but like it's so remote,
Speaker 2: it's all trails, like, yeah, no one does this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, it's now Thursday, September eleventh, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: This would be the final electronic contact. So Andrew keeps
Speaker 3: up his pattern of periodic updates through the morning and
Speaker 3: into early afternoon, he sends short messages and location pings
Speaker 3: to Bridget, which is his fiancee and his family from
Speaker 3: the in reach device, and about mid afternoon reported as
Speaker 3: roughly two forty five to three in the afternoon, he
Speaker 3: shares his location again. The last confirmed ping originates near
Speaker 3: Ian's car at the trailhead. That afternoon position puts them
Speaker 3: back at the vehicle, and later investigators infer that they
Speaker 3: likely return to the car to change out wet clothing
Speaker 3: before heading back out to hunt. So sometime after that
Speaker 3: midafter afternoon ping on the eleventh, the garment falls silent,
Speaker 3: so there were no further satellite messages or location updates,
Speaker 3: and neither of the hunter's calls or texts via cell phone.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, that evening severe weather moved in across the
Speaker 3: entire area, and it was described by other hikers in
Speaker 3: the areas bad cold storms and fog and terrible weekend
Speaker 3: conditions with lightning and dropping temperatures. So weather really went
Speaker 3: south quite quickly, and loved ones at home do not
Speaker 3: yet know that this September eleventh checking will be the
Speaker 3: last confirmed contact because he was doing it about it
Speaker 3: once every twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this here's the trail and no data on it. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna see if they can get contour top. Oh,
Speaker 2: there we go. So this is ten thousand feet along
Speaker 2: this ridge line and then it went all the way
Speaker 2: up to eleven three hundred so okay, so that's more
Speaker 2: deceiving than yeah, thirteen to four up here, you know,
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred feet thirteen or fourteen hundred feet, and it
Speaker 2: could even be more than that, Like if they started
Speaker 2: down the trail looks like it goes here a little
Speaker 2: lower than ten thousand, six hundred feet. Yeah, and if
Speaker 2: they went straight north, yeah, they're going up to eleven
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty thirty or eleven three hundred nineteen feet,
Speaker 2: so over one thousand feet. Yeah, that is deceiving. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because that looked like, let's go back in it. So
Speaker 2: that is eleven hundred feet of elevation gain. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: this little I guess. Yeah, it's just really long. It's
Speaker 2: not as super aggressive, that's why. But yeah, if you're
Speaker 2: starting down in this dep I guess, yeah, and then
Speaker 2: working your way up through the forest, then in this
Speaker 2: open this screen field would be obnoxious. Yeah, like I'm
Speaker 2: just like, oh man, I don't know that you could
Speaker 2: go up it.
Speaker 3: Well they did, well, they may have gone around. I mean,
Speaker 3: how would you there's a point where you're not gonna
Speaker 3: be able to get up that.
Speaker 2: I don't know they did it. Maybe it's not super
Speaker 2: bad screen. It looks pretty steep, it does it? Does?
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the alternative? You gotta go all the like,
Speaker 2: how all the way on the road where those trees
Speaker 2: are over there and go up the ridge? Yeah? Maybe right?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, maybe? Yeah, Okay, I mean that's what I
Speaker 3: would do. I wouldn't try going up the screen just straight.
Speaker 3: I would I don't think I'm like as the crow
Speaker 3: flies flies, You're there for like five hours, just like treading,
Speaker 3: like walking up an escalator that's going down. Yeah, that
Speaker 3: would happen to me. And then you just get up
Speaker 3: to the top of like you idiot.
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, okay, let's get out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's move on here. I I've had so many
Speaker 3: diversions tonight, I know, Okay. It's now Friday, September twelfth
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five. Andrewnian have predetermined checking protocol with
Speaker 3: their families, and when that schedule is broken concerns starts
Speaker 3: mounting quickly, so by the evening of Friday, September twelve,
Speaker 3: family members contact the Coneos County Sheriff's Office and Coloro
Speaker 3: Parks and wild Life Game Warden to report that they've
Speaker 3: missed their check ins and have been out of contact
Speaker 3: since Thursday's ping. And at this point law enforcement treats
Speaker 3: this situation cautiously. It is really not uncommon for backcountry
Speaker 3: hikers to be reported overdue due to a miscommunication or
Speaker 3: some kind of minor delay out in the back country,
Speaker 3: and the hope is that the hunters are simply out
Speaker 3: of range or focused on a final push for their
Speaker 3: all cuts over. So law enforcement wasn't super quick to
Speaker 3: jump on it and just start an all out search
Speaker 3: because obviously around there they probably deal with this a lot.
Speaker 3: Hunters might just stay out an extra day or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if it didn't raise any alarm, I would. I'm automatically
Speaker 3: kind of thinking that maybe that just is normal. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 3: So it's Saturday, September thirteenth of twenty twenty five. Deputies
Speaker 3: from the Canaos County Sheriff's Office drive to the trailhead
Speaker 3: to check for the hunter's vehicle. They find it parked
Speaker 3: at or near the trailhead. It was locked, with no
Speaker 3: sign of Andrew or Ean nearby. Inside the vehicle, deputies
Speaker 3: discover camping gear, large backpacks, and other supplies that would
Speaker 3: normally accompany an extended stay in the back country. The
Speaker 3: presence of significant gear and packs in the car, combined
Speaker 3: with all of the recent really heavy rain and storms
Speaker 3: they had triggered more serious concern with law enforcement and
Speaker 3: they're worrying out was if they're still out in the field,
Speaker 3: they may be out there with limited equipment and very
Speaker 3: deteriorating weathers. So I think now law enforcements kind of
Speaker 3: like this has turned into a serious situation. We need
Speaker 3: to need to mobilize and get people out in the
Speaker 3: fields to start looking for them. So by this time,
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office decides to, like I said, initiate a
Speaker 3: full search and rescue mission. Search operations are immediately put
Speaker 3: in the place, quickly scaling into what officials described as
Speaker 3: a man massive search, involving air operations, Malti County and
Speaker 3: state ground teams, dog teams, drone teams, ATVs, and local volunteers.
Speaker 3: So it really is a massive search, a search base
Speaker 3: is established ad Or near the Rio de los Pinos trailhead,
Speaker 3: which becomes the operational hub for both official Star resources
Speaker 3: and the civilian volunteers.
Speaker 2: This the geological survey actually shows where the trail goes. Okay,
Speaker 2: so the one we were looking at was right here
Speaker 2: where ended. The geological survey shows it does kind of
Speaker 2: go right.
Speaker 3: Up the middle. Oh really, yeah, look at that. It's
Speaker 3: actually too there's flattop trail. That image we were looking
Speaker 3: at was like right up on this rim like here.
Speaker 2: Okay, might be a little further downward, so you're not
Speaker 2: or yeah, I think if you look at that where
Speaker 2: the other ridge was right here, I think you were correct. Though.
Speaker 3: There's like more trees that way, so maybe it's a
Speaker 3: little less aggressive, and that's why you go up.
Speaker 2: That's where it hooks and comes back around.
Speaker 3: Because that looks like off in the distance the trees
Speaker 3: we were looking at right here. Yeah, because if we
Speaker 3: were on the other ridge in that picture.
Speaker 2: Here, yeah, so we're on this ridge. Yeah, so it
Speaker 2: kind of goes oh right here, look at this yeah boom,
Speaker 2: So that's how they got up there. Yep. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can kind of see that, okay, And then they said
Speaker 2: there's a backcountry camping spot, which means it's probably not marked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean that's they just find. You're so
Speaker 3: in the middle of no where, you just find the
Speaker 3: space that's good down there, though you can see that's where.
Speaker 2: It doesn't show on all trails until you go into
Speaker 2: the geological survey. But yeah, look at so it's and
Speaker 2: this is the type of stuff they would have had
Speaker 2: in their garment. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah you think I mean we forget this. I
Speaker 3: mean this last year. Yeah, this wasn't like thirty years ago. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they had a watch, would have it loaded. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: if they have a garment in reach device, that's I'm
Speaker 3: curious what I've said garment in reach so many times.
Speaker 2: I kind of want to look to see what it
Speaker 2: actually looks like. We looked at those, because that's the
Speaker 2: one that's I'm going to write. You can text message
Speaker 2: directly from it. Okay, there it is. It's a satellite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I use a satellite, but I thought you could
Speaker 3: text the guy who did the sal Yeah, so you
Speaker 3: can text message on this.
Speaker 2: He can't make phone calls, and it does it through satellite.
Speaker 2: Does it have navigation? Yeah, it's a normal GPS device,
Speaker 2: but you can text from everyone that and I think
Speaker 2: I'm going off memory could be wrong. But the guy
Speaker 2: who is the first guy to do like the north
Speaker 2: pole in the South pole, Yeah, he like had that
Speaker 2: and he was like messaging. He had like he would
Speaker 2: message and that's how he would post to social media.
Speaker 2: He would send someone a text message, whould then post
Speaker 2: what he said? Yeah, And I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: really cool that we're texting via GPS devices.
Speaker 3: Now now I can send satellite text on my phone,
Speaker 3: so you don't even need a garment.
Speaker 2: Boom boom boom.
Speaker 3: Though that's a lot cheaper, yeah than an iPhone. Mm hmm,
Speaker 3: So that's cool.
Speaker 2: Garment in Reach. I feel like I've said at thirty
Speaker 2: times this episode, I know they need to sponsorship sponsor us,
Speaker 2: Come on, Garment. I just I just got their m
Speaker 2: K three for diving and it was fabulous. Two thumbs
Speaker 2: up from Joe two thumbs up. Ah, right, where was
Speaker 2: I Actually that would be a good sponsor for like
Speaker 2: not getting lost with Garman. Yeah, somebody ought to write
Speaker 2: a letter to Garman. Yeah, somebody, anybody.
Speaker 3: Listen to listen to Locations unknown and yeah, use a Garment,
Speaker 3: and we guarantee you won't get lost. To start another
Speaker 3: LLC to put all the liability on that. It's like,
Speaker 3: and who's guaranteeing it. This other corporation, Garmen will guarantee
Speaker 3: or sponsorshos around them.
Speaker 2: That would actually be a cool campaign. Like if you
Speaker 2: use our device correctly, yeah, and still get lost, then
Speaker 2: the first day of the campaign someone gets lost and
Speaker 2: they rescue them, it's like a billion dollars. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: continue more sidetrack, Yes, Garmen, we're waiting. Yeah, anyone who's
Speaker 2: listening that works at Garment, come on, you need it,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be Yeah, you clearly aren't selling enough devices.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with iPhones and androids now being able to do
Speaker 3: the same thing, time might be numbered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but unless you got two guys like USh Is
Speaker 2: hocking your stuff, they're definitely not calling. All right, continue, Okay.
Speaker 3: It is Sunday to Tuesday, September fourteenth to the sixteenth
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five, so massive search efforts building At
Speaker 3: this point. It grows into a multi agency operations spanning
Speaker 3: difficult high elevation country. Teams from Colorado, New Mexico join
Speaker 3: local responders Colorado Parks and Wildlife, New Mexico State Search
Speaker 3: and Rescue, County Star teams, and volunteer groups all are converging.
Speaker 2: On Unit eighty one.
Speaker 3: They also had special assets deployed, so they had tracking dogs, drones, aircrafts.
Speaker 2: They had a Flight for Life helicopter.
Speaker 3: And they had a privately contracted black Hawk helicopter that
Speaker 3: was later brought in to help assist with the search.
Speaker 3: They also had searchers on horseback and on foot. I
Speaker 3: think it'd be fun to be a horseback searcher, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean not as hard as the ones on foot yep,
Speaker 3: because you're literally just riding a horse around.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sounds kind of fun. Yeah, just like everyone has to
Speaker 3: walk around. That gives you sneers and stuff.
Speaker 2: I got the.
Speaker 3: Horse searchers on horseback and on foot. They were canvassing draines, ridgelines,
Speaker 3: timbered areas. Volunteers are worn to expect long delays and
Speaker 3: challenging train including extensive deadfall and off travel or off
Speaker 3: trail travel. Social media posts and calls for help circulate wildly.
Speaker 3: One volunteer message explains that those joining should be prepared
Speaker 3: for eight plus mile off trail hike through rough country
Speaker 3: to thoroughly canvas the valley where the hunters were last
Speaker 3: known to be, and during this window, family and friends
Speaker 3: launched a GoFundMe campaign titled Help Find Andrew Porter and
Speaker 3: Ian Stasco to support the search and help cover travel
Speaker 3: and logistics. Within a short time, the fundraiser raised almost
Speaker 3: eighty thousand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's currently sitting at seventy eight thousand, six hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty six not bad, eight hundred and eighty two donations, So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people really came out to help support the search.
Speaker 3: The family even offered a ten thousand dollars reward for
Speaker 3: any information on what happened. It's now Wednesday, September seventeenth
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five, so Andrew and Ian are still
Speaker 3: missing it this time, but search leaders and the family
Speaker 3: receive a crucial piece of information. A report from other
Speaker 3: hunters confirmed that they saw the pair on Friday morning
Speaker 3: at the Spruce Whole trailhead. So, I don't know, you
Speaker 3: a chance look up Spruce Whole Trailhead and see where
Speaker 3: that is.
Speaker 2: In relation to the other one.
Speaker 3: The rio ed a d los Pinos, so the men
Speaker 3: reportedly talk with this party about a big bull.
Speaker 2: They had seen and say they are.
Speaker 3: Heading back out to look for it with the car
Speaker 3: president and the spruce hole at that time. Sometime after
Speaker 3: that Friday morning sighting, the vehicles moved back to the
Speaker 3: other trailhead, where deputies later find it. So this sighting
Speaker 3: gives the family a little bit of hope. They thought
Speaker 3: they were lost the day before, and now this just
Speaker 3: says that they were alive at least another day that
Speaker 3: the family didn't know about. So there's hope that maybe
Speaker 3: they're still out there. One more night, one more morning.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it just hope is enough. They need to help
Speaker 3: those searchers and the family keep going. So now the
Speaker 3: search corridor is adjusted the prioritize the area between the
Speaker 3: Rio DALs Pinos and the Spruce Whole trailheads, including all
Speaker 3: the intervening drainages, ridgelines and timber areas.
Speaker 2: Having trouble finding it. Yeah, usually you can just enter
Speaker 2: coordinates into Google Maps and we'll just go there. So
Speaker 2: it is real. It is real. It's just so underutilized
Speaker 2: that nobody has anything on it. Yeah, like it doesn't. Oh,
Speaker 2: here we go. This is the closest I can get. Okay,
Speaker 2: So there's brad Lake Town McIntyre Peak. So it looks
Speaker 2: like a pretty lot of elevation gain. Yeah, sure, not
Speaker 2: very long. It's not very long, Okay, all right, I'll
Speaker 2: keep trying to find on Google Maps.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, they've adjusted the search corridor with
Speaker 3: this new information request go out for more resources, additional
Speaker 3: star teams, more teams, more horse teams, more four wheelers,
Speaker 3: more drones. So by this point there are more than
Speaker 3: fifty organized search teams in the field and according to
Speaker 3: later tallies, over one hundred and seventy personnel have been
Speaker 3: involved and drawn from multiple counties and states, So very
Speaker 3: massive search operation. And for those watching the video in
Speaker 3: a very remote and rugged environment, that's a lot of
Speaker 3: people to have out there, and family and the fiances
Speaker 3: post updates thanking volunteers and emphasizing that the hunters are savvy,
Speaker 3: resourceful and doing everything they can to survive, while pleading
Speaker 3: with the public not to let the search effort dwindle. However,
Speaker 3: on Thursday, September eighteenth, the search enters its sixth operational day.
Speaker 3: Early that morning, Bridget posts that searchers are ready to
Speaker 3: work as hard as possible to find Andrew and Ian
Speaker 3: as more teams deploy into the field around mid morning,
Speaker 3: though one of the ground teams supports a discovery that
Speaker 3: will end the search and shift the focus to a
Speaker 3: recovery and an investigation.
Speaker 2: Now, did you know what happened with this case? I
Speaker 2: did until I accidentally saw it recently when I was searching. Okay,
Speaker 2: So no, all right?
Speaker 3: So, at approximately eleven to eleven fifteen, a search team
Speaker 3: locates the bodies of two men under a tree in
Speaker 3: remote terrain, roughly two miles above the Rio delos Pinos
Speaker 3: trailhead in the South San Juan Wilderness. The Coneos County
Speaker 3: Sheriff's Office issues a press release stating that two unidentified
Speaker 3: males have been recovered about two miles from the trailhead
Speaker 3: following an extensive operation, and that the investigation is ongoing
Speaker 3: with no further details penning. With no further details penning
Speaker 3: identification and notification of next of kin. The privately contracted
Speaker 3: Blackhawk helicopter assists in the transporting of the Sheriff under
Speaker 3: Sheriff and the Colorado Search and Rescue Associate Association Coordinator
Speaker 3: part way to the scene to examine and recover the bodies.
Speaker 3: Unseen examination reveals no obvious signs of trauma on either man.
Speaker 3: They are found close together beneath a tree, with no
Speaker 3: immediate evidence of foul play. The bodies are recovered and
Speaker 3: flown are transported out of the backcountry whilst our operations
Speaker 3: began to demobilize.
Speaker 2: I would have been able to guess what it was.
Speaker 3: You, Oh, even if you didn't know. Well, let's yeah,
Speaker 3: the tree is the key. The tree is the key,
Speaker 3: but it's not what you think it is.
Speaker 2: Okay. So they were roughly from this image. So here's
Speaker 2: the trail. You might technically not be able to see
Speaker 2: it from here, but here's this lake right here. Okay,
Speaker 2: So they were past that along probably like where this
Speaker 2: tree line is.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's where they were roughly. When what's the elevation there?
Speaker 3: Eleven thousand and four.
Speaker 2: We're pretty good up there, four hundred ish. All right. Man,
Speaker 2: that's just remote and desolate. Yeah, I mean, look at
Speaker 2: how barren it is. You look around. That's June. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Props to Lilian Chan for taking these pictures. Are they
Speaker 2: the same person? Yeah, it's like these three on these
Speaker 2: ridge lines, Like she must have hiked over there. Wow,
Speaker 2: because they went up the trail heads around here and
Speaker 2: it kind of winds up through here and then it
Speaker 2: goes into this area. So if you go out here,
Speaker 2: see how it goes Yeah, okay, yeah, this isn't facing
Speaker 2: exactly north, but the other one is. No, this one's off.
Speaker 2: That's why it looks weird. Yeah, there we go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it lines up a little bit better. I don't think
Speaker 2: this one still is perfect, but you can kind of
Speaker 2: see exactly. Okay, there we go. Yeah, how that shape
Speaker 2: lines up? Yeah, so they were just past that pond,
Speaker 2: like because two miles from the trailhead was towards the top. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as the crow flies, so maybe maybe it was a
Speaker 2: little south of there potentially, So they were in that
Speaker 2: general area. Yeah, Okay, when you're looking at from her
Speaker 2: photo towards that lake, they were like they were in
Speaker 2: here somewhere. Yeah. This this circle I'm making now covers
Speaker 2: the entire area, so they were within this frame. Okay. Interesting.
Speaker 3: Yep, Like we said, the bodies are still not identified
Speaker 3: at this point, no signs of trauma or foul play. Initially,
Speaker 3: it's Thursday afternoon evening, September eighteenth, of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Although the Sheriff's office initially refers to the remains as unidentified.
Speaker 3: Word reaches the family and the public quickly. That afternoon,
Speaker 3: Andrew's aunt posts an update on the go fundme page
Speaker 3: that she has been using to coordinate support.
Speaker 2: She writes, it is.
Speaker 3: With broken heart and through tears that I give you
Speaker 3: this update. Andrew Porter and Ian Stasco have both been
Speaker 3: found ceased. Their bodies were discovered earlier today by Colorado
Speaker 3: Search and Rescue. I will provide another update tomorrow. Please
Speaker 3: keep Andrews and Ian's families in your thoughts and prayers.
Speaker 3: Local emergency management news out outlets of North Carolina and
Speaker 3: Colorado confirm that the recovered bodies are those of Andrew
Speaker 3: and Ian. Suwach County Search and Rescue also posts that
Speaker 3: the men have been found de ceased and that their
Speaker 3: role in the search has concluded. That evening and into
Speaker 3: the next day, the focus shifts from missing hunters to
Speaker 3: trying to understand, or, as Joe usually says, piece together, Yeah,
Speaker 3: piece it together.
Speaker 2: What it's a puzzle? Yeah?
Speaker 3: What happened to the experienced outdoorsman in a place not
Speaker 3: very far from their vehicle. It's now Friday, September nineteenth
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five. The Canaos County Coroner Richard Martin
Speaker 3: confirms publicly that the bodies are those of Andrew Porter
Speaker 3: and Ian Stasco. He reports that there are no obvious
Speaker 3: injuries or and no initial signs of faul play, emphasizing
Speaker 3: that if there had been clear evidence of violence, investigators
Speaker 3: would still be at the scene processing it. Autopsies were
Speaker 3: scheduled for Monday at the Elpaso County Coroner's Office, and
Speaker 3: the official cause of death remains undetermined penning those examinations.
Speaker 3: But obviously, if you didn't know what happened, the lack
Speaker 3: of visible trauma would seem weird, and for the Internet,
Speaker 3: it fueled speculation. Many observers focus on the area's brutal
Speaker 3: weather over the preceding week. Others raise theories about hypothermia,
Speaker 3: a fall, acute medical emergencies. However, search and rescue personnel
Speaker 3: and county officials limit public statements to the facts, and
Speaker 3: they just basically say the men were found together about
Speaker 3: two miles from their car and showed no obvious injuries
Speaker 3: and there are no early indications of foul play. So
Speaker 3: it is Monday, September twenty seconds. Authorities and family receive
Speaker 3: a clear answer. Finally, after the autopsies are conducted, corner
Speaker 3: Richard Martin confirms that both Andrew Porter and Ian Stasco
Speaker 3: were killed by lightning.
Speaker 2: See that's where like that you never go under a tree. Well,
Speaker 2: we'll get into it was not. It wasn't going under
Speaker 2: the tree. It wasn't a direct hit. That's why I
Speaker 2: assume it went through the ground. Yeah, from a different tree,
Speaker 2: from a different tree. Oh for the root system. No,
Speaker 2: just so at the end to that tree that it
Speaker 2: did well.
Speaker 3: So I I because there's no at this that we
Speaker 3: just like kind of gave it away.
Speaker 2: No, I mean we're okay there.
Speaker 3: I mean the part of the timeline where I tell
Speaker 3: the audience they were struck by lightning, okay, But because
Speaker 3: we don't have theories in this one, I went into
Speaker 3: a little of the science behind why they were killed
Speaker 3: by a lightning strike that didn't strike them. And growing
Speaker 3: up in Wisconsin, I've heard stories like I'm sure you
Speaker 3: have two where like you know what cows, like a
Speaker 3: herd of cows will do in a thunderstorm.
Speaker 2: Is they'll like all grouped together.
Speaker 3: Under a tree and lightning might strike in the field
Speaker 3: and it'll kill the entire herd, like the whole hurdle
Speaker 3: get wiped out. And it's because of this phenomenon that
Speaker 3: I'm I'll talk about in the theories section of why
Speaker 3: if lightning didn't actually strike them, did they die from it?
Speaker 3: And I was actually kind of shocked that this. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 3: this type of lightning strike actually kills more people than
Speaker 3: direct lightning strikes.
Speaker 2: Oh that's terrifying. Yeah, I'm like on pins and needles. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's go, let's go.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, like I said, the autopsies were performed, it
Speaker 3: was lightning. I'm sure a lot of you were leaning
Speaker 3: that way listening to what happened. He explained some multiples
Speaker 3: that the men were now directly struck. Instead, lightning hit
Speaker 3: a nearby tree, and the electrical charge traveled down through
Speaker 3: the trunk, into the ground, and into both men where
Speaker 3: they stood beneath or near the tree. The bodies show
Speaker 3: only slight scattered burn marks, described as if you take
Speaker 3: a match and stick it on your arm, with only
Speaker 3: a few small burns on each body, consistent with a
Speaker 3: powerful electrical jolt that stopped their hearts and brains instantly,
Speaker 3: rather than a direct lightning hit that would have caused
Speaker 3: extensive burns.
Speaker 2: That actually makes me feel better. Yeah, sometimes you can
Speaker 2: survive those and you die like in pain.
Speaker 3: Well, so a strike like this sometimes, they said, if
Speaker 3: someone is there to p do CPR, that they can
Speaker 3: sometimes revive you. But if both it's one percent fatal
Speaker 3: then because it basically just short circuits your heart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's it's like quick there, it's yeah, it's
Speaker 3: so fast. They wouldn't have even felt anyone, They wondn't
Speaker 3: even realize that it happened.
Speaker 2: That always makes me feel batter. Yeah, what's what's it called?
Speaker 2: Is there a name for that type of phenomenon?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they called it. We'll get into it when I
Speaker 3: in the science part.
Speaker 2: But I wanted to I'll see if I can look,
Speaker 2: I want to see while you're talking, I can pull
Speaker 2: up like a visual Yeah, so keep going. Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like I said, not a lot of burns
Speaker 3: in their bodies. But the same day, Bridget finally posts
Speaker 3: a message. She writes, it's official that a lightning strike
Speaker 3: to the ground took them in an instant. They didn't
Speaker 3: do anything wrong, they didn't feel or fear pain. It
Speaker 3: was just he was just trying to get back to
Speaker 3: the car as storms rolled in on Friday, September twelfth.
Speaker 3: In another statement shared in the news coverage, she calls
Speaker 3: the accident a bizarre, horrific act of nature and emphasizes
Speaker 3: that Andrew was an experience outdoorsman who was in the
Speaker 3: wrong spot at.
Speaker 2: The wrong time.
Speaker 3: With the cause of death confirmed as an indirect lightning
Speaker 3: strike also described as a ground strike, speculation about foul
Speaker 3: play and mysterious disappearances fade the story becomes one of
Speaker 3: two capable hunt killed by severe mountain weather only a
Speaker 3: short distance from their vehicle. Pretty crazy story. I think
Speaker 3: I remember this search. I remember reading about it in
Speaker 3: the news when the two outcona when they first went
Speaker 3: missing last June.
Speaker 2: This is crazy. I'm just reading about it. Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the science behind it is kind of interesting.
Speaker 3: So I can go into real quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do it. I'm not sureing the screen or anything. Okay,
Speaker 2: you can talk about it. I'm gonna try in a
Speaker 2: quick video.
Speaker 3: Like I said, because we're not doing a theorious section,
Speaker 3: because we know what happened.
Speaker 2: I was going to go into a little bit of science.
Speaker 3: Of what happened, because I've heard of lightning strikes not
Speaker 3: necessarily hitting someone but still fatally injuring them. But I
Speaker 3: wasn't really sure how it worked, and indirect lightning fatality
Speaker 3: usually means the person was not part of the main
Speaker 3: lightning channel, but was killed by electricity traveling through another pathway,
Speaker 3: most commonly ground current, all so called step potential or
Speaker 3: step voltage. The National Weather Service explains that when lightning
Speaker 3: strikes a tree or the ground, energy spreads outward in
Speaker 3: and along the ground's surface, and this ground current causes
Speaker 3: the most lightning deaths and injuries because it can affect
Speaker 3: a wide area around the strike point, which I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I always thought getting hit directly by a lightning bolt
Speaker 3: was like I.
Speaker 2: Always thought the whole point is it goes into the
Speaker 2: ground to dissipate into the ground. Yeah, So, like, how
Speaker 2: is lightning rods because they just go into the ground, Like,
Speaker 2: how come that doesn't do that or does it? I
Speaker 2: don't know. This is all very upsetting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe you look up how a lightning rod works
Speaker 3: while I'm reading.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: The Lightning Safety Council similarly describes that current can enter
Speaker 3: at the contact point closest to the strike and exit
Speaker 3: at the farthest contact point, often moving through the cardiovascular
Speaker 3: and nervous systems. So is it better to not have
Speaker 3: both feet on the ground because it's got to it's
Speaker 3: got to travel through your foot and then it's got
Speaker 3: to go out the other one if it's going through
Speaker 3: your cardiac system.
Speaker 2: So if you're standing on one foot, would you like
Speaker 2: avoid this?
Speaker 3: I don't know, am I am I overthinking this thing?
Speaker 2: I think you're overthinking it.
Speaker 3: Okay, you can look that up too, list of looking
Speaker 3: stuff up, sketting longer.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm gonna do it real quick.
Speaker 3: So in this in the scenario, describe publicly for adren
Speaker 3: ian found near under a tree with minimal burns and
Speaker 3: later described as an indirect ground strike. The likely sequences
Speaker 3: lightning hit a nearby tree or the ground, the electrical
Speaker 3: potential in the soil spiked, and the current traveled through
Speaker 3: both men. Because the human body, which is salt water
Speaker 3: plus electrolytes, conducts better than many soils, especially when wet,
Speaker 3: and two people can die from one strike because the
Speaker 3: energized ground current footprint is broad. If both men are
Speaker 3: within that potential gradient, both can become parallel conduct paths.
Speaker 3: So okay, and then I have a quick little blurb.
Speaker 2: Here we go. I can tell you why a lightning
Speaker 2: rod works. Okay, it can create step vultage, but it's
Speaker 2: a small amount because it spreads the current over a
Speaker 2: larger area. It sends the current to multiple ground rods
Speaker 2: at the same time, uses heavy conductors with low resistance,
Speaker 2: and often includes buried ground rings or meshes around the structure,
Speaker 2: so it reduces the voltage gradient. So they said, think
Speaker 2: like lightning hitting a tree equals dumping a fire hose
Speaker 2: into one small hole. Lightning hitting a property grounded lightning
Speaker 2: rod dumping the same water into a network of drainage pipes.
Speaker 2: So it's the same principle, but you have like you're
Speaker 2: spreading it out over a large area and underground controlled
Speaker 2: it's controlled.
Speaker 3: Yes, so same thing happens. It's just engineered to dissipate
Speaker 3: it better, Yes, quicker versus you just being out in
Speaker 3: the woods and it hitting a tree next to you
Speaker 3: and you're just getting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, says the tree becomes an unpredictable conductor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's basic what it is. That makes sense. So
Speaker 3: what happens to the body at the moment of a strike.
Speaker 3: So lightning injury is primarily an electrical disruption problem, not
Speaker 3: a burned alive problem. I always thought, and you got
Speaker 3: hit by lightning, it was like, yeah, like a burned,
Speaker 3: a burning kind of thing. But in milliseconds, a massive
Speaker 3: electrical impulse can depolarize the heart and disrupt the nervous system.
Speaker 3: Medical references emphasize lightning can cause cardiac arrest, loss of consciousness,
Speaker 3: and severe neurological effects the the arrest rhythm.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know, Joe, you would know these words better.
Speaker 2: You work for a what put put your cursor on
Speaker 2: it so I can jump right to it, A sistily,
Speaker 2: A sistently yeah, okay? Or other malignant? Really is? I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm fascinated by lightning and electricity run. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm totally nerding out on this whole thing. They're saying
Speaker 2: the law. The farther your legs are apart, the voltage increases. Okay.
Speaker 2: So it is like standing on one foot or foot,
Speaker 2: sitting on one foot or keeping your feet together increases
Speaker 2: the risk of survival because otherwise it's gonna it's gonna
Speaker 2: travel up one leg through the cardiacs.
Speaker 3: That was one of the pieces of advice that if
Speaker 3: obviously the first thing you should do if you hear
Speaker 3: thunder and then you're going, you know, hiking is turned
Speaker 3: around and try to go down in elevation and get
Speaker 3: to a shelter or a hard top car. If you
Speaker 3: can't do that, they say spread if you're with multiple
Speaker 3: people in the hiking parties, spread your party out so
Speaker 3: if there is a lightning strike, at least one of
Speaker 3: you is conscious to provide CPR. And then, yeah, put
Speaker 3: your feet very close together. Try to not stand under
Speaker 3: a lone hundred foot tree. Yeah, and that is very
Speaker 3: interesting that your chance of dying increases by just spreading
Speaker 3: your feet out.
Speaker 2: So they said running is bad because you could be
Speaker 2: caught mid stride. So it literally says shuffle with tiny steps,
Speaker 2: sliding your feet along the ground, so don't lift them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then some lightning safety experts recommend bunny hopping with
Speaker 2: both feet together, so you're either in contact with the
Speaker 2: ground together or you're not. Yeah, at the c you
Speaker 2: don't want to ever be like in between or in
Speaker 2: a stride, and it increases the chance lightning is fascinating.
Speaker 3: So the old house I used to live at, there
Speaker 3: is this old guy that lived behind me that had
Speaker 3: this massive Ham radio tower. And I remember I was
Speaker 3: out my driveway one afternoon and there was a storm
Speaker 3: coming in, like a very electrically charged from lots of lightning.
Speaker 3: And I was standing my driveway and like the hair.
Speaker 3: Have you ever been outside in a storm and your
Speaker 3: hair on your arms starts to kind of Oh.
Speaker 2: That means it's getting positively charged all around you. And
Speaker 2: the Ham radio tower was humming. It was like.
Speaker 3: And then a terrified like a block away just bang
Speaker 3: hue lightning strike. And I was like, all right, I
Speaker 3: gotta go inside out of here. So I wrote, could
Speaker 3: they have survived it or avoided it? Highest way to
Speaker 3: avoid it, like I said, is finding a structure or
Speaker 3: a hard top car. But the National Weather Service explicitly
Speaker 3: stopped recommending the classic lightning crouch because it doesn't really
Speaker 3: protect you if lightning is going to strike your area,
Speaker 3: and it can keep people outside longer. Actually, they've started
Speaker 3: emphasizing your really only safest route is to get to
Speaker 3: a real shelter. But if you're unable to do that,
Speaker 3: treat any thunder is a hard stop and immediate retreat
Speaker 3: towards lower elevation vehicle building plan hunts so you're not
Speaker 3: committed deep in timbered drainages during a typical storm, build
Speaker 3: windows and timelines when you can hunt and then not hunt,
Speaker 3: and if a storm overtakes, you prioritize in distance from
Speaker 3: isolated tall trees and rapid movement to lower terrain, while
Speaker 3: keeping group members separated enough that at least one person
Speaker 3: can provide CPR.
Speaker 2: This makes me way more terrified of lightning than I
Speaker 2: was before. I was always concerned about she's getting hit
Speaker 2: by it. Yeah, now I have a whole other concern
Speaker 2: of it just hitting anything in my vicinity.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think you would rather get directly hit
Speaker 3: by it because it seems like those people survive more frequently.
Speaker 2: Well that's especially if you're doing the crouch, you like
Speaker 2: stick your butt up in the air, just like everyone
Speaker 2: goes through your butt into the ground. Yeah, I know. Lightnings.
Speaker 3: There's a lake in South America where there's lightning every night.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've seen that. It's like like people go there.
Speaker 3: For Yeah, it's it's a weird geographic location where it's
Speaker 3: like the perfect combination to create thunderstorms every night, and
Speaker 3: it storms three hundred and sixty five days of the year.
Speaker 2: Every night of Venezuela. Yeah, that's my.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so cool. I watched a whole documentary. I
Speaker 3: watch really boring documentaries, and.
Speaker 2: That's that's a super cool documentary. Mike, don't ever talking right,
Speaker 2: don't talk down to yourself. It's so cool. I would
Speaker 2: be fun to live there and just watch that every night. Oh,
Speaker 2: I love them. You probably get like sick of thunder
Speaker 2: like I don't know if I would. No, I like
Speaker 2: play it on my Google stuff, like to go to bed.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, you have thunderstorm audio going all the time.
Speaker 2: I love it. It's so soon. You've never seen this lake.
Speaker 2: I think I I think I saw a TikTok of it.
Speaker 2: It's cool that this is on. Oh has our audio
Speaker 2: and app been playing? No, I just forget that this
Speaker 2: is the whole thing. I almost want to fast forward to
Speaker 2: where it shows lightning. Here we go nothing. It's just
Speaker 2: like this every day, every day, every night, every night. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's awesome.
Speaker 4: Six million bolts of lightning annually. Six ext butts estimate
Speaker 4: that lightning strikes over Katatumbo roughly one hundred and forty
Speaker 4: to one hundred and sixty nights a year, which is
Speaker 4: often visible for seven to ten hours per night. If
Speaker 4: she could write poetry across the sky, it would surely look.
Speaker 2: Like that was cool. That is awesome.
Speaker 3: It was just like it looked like a snake going
Speaker 3: across the cloud.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that place.
Speaker 3: Let's go there. Well, you were down in South America.
Speaker 3: You should have like just I did know about it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I don't know why we started talking.
Speaker 2: Because lightning's awesome. We're talking the whole things about lightning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I don't know. There's a weird episode. Got
Speaker 3: a lot, a lot of tangents.
Speaker 2: It was good. It was a good episode.
Speaker 3: I'm like my voice, Yeah, you're you're almost back to normal.
Speaker 3: So I think we've got to were this will be released. Well,
Speaker 3: when you're listening to it, all of our dear listeners,
Speaker 3: it'll be near the end of June.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so why are you listen? It is just one
Speaker 2: of those nights. It is nights, all right. Well, thanks
Speaker 2: again for tuning into our show. We truly appreciate each
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Speaker 1: On b