Speaker 1: This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me
covering Dungeon Crawler Caral book seven, this Inevitable ruin from
chapter Voltigue to chapter thirty nine. In these chapters, there's
a lot of this that I don't even want to
talk about because it makes me so sad, and it
makes me uncomfortable, and it makes me feel like it
just makes me feel ways that I don't like and
don't want to feel, and I just keep being like
Matt Deniman, how dare you who hurt you capitalism? I
have asked this question before, I've answered it before, and
yet Welcome to spoil Me. Welcome to the show everyone.
I am Natasha. Thank you very much to Michael for
commissioning this episode. Michael's here in the chat with me. Hi, Michael,
appreciate you being here. I should probably do some sort
of like super cut of every time that I mention
how he's been hurt by capitalism. But that does sound
like a lot of work, having to go and find
those moments again. What can you do? I can't tell you, guys,
how sad the Voltigue chapter made me. I can't express
how I like recoiled mentally from it. It's crazy to
me how in a moment like this, how my brain
refuses to absorb fully. So I then wind up having
to go back and re listen because I was like
dissociating while I was listening and not absorbing it. And
it's like very ironic that the whole thing is that
I don't want to hear it, but this makes me
have to go hear it twice, very annoying. So I
just I am feeling myself getting emotional just like thinking
about it. So the first sentence is Voltigue did not
consider himself worthy of love. Mistress hens Barr had loved him,
of course, she'd loved him, and he'd failed her. Before
the dungeon, they were the best of friends. She'd kept
his cage clean, had him to perch on her shoulder
while she went to the market. Voltigue had limited memories
of these times before the pet biscuit, but he remembered
biting the shop keeper's finger one day when he'd tried
to feed him a berry. It had been an accident,
the shopkeeper had been angry he'd bled. Mistress hens Bar
had been mad too, but that night she'd still patted
him on the head and scretched under his wing and
turned up the fire in the hearth just how he
liked it. She said it was okay, that it wasn't
his fault, and that Voltigu loved Barry so much he
had bitten a shopkeeper in his enthusiasm, which was true.
Mistress Hen's bar had understood him, she loved him, and
because she loved him, she would protect him even when
he made mistakes. You guys, you guys, I swear to God,
I can't. I can't. So she winds up getting killed.
But he was given a pet biscuit. And it's unclear
to me because like it seems she was a crawler
and that she was actually like the pet biscuit was
for him the like I don't think that an MPC
gets a pet biscuit that can transform a hat, right, Like,
I don't feel like that makes sense. So all of
these memories that he is having about this, like, you know,
this is all the before times, before the crawl actually happened.
This is how I'm understanding it. Please correct me if
I'm like not getting it, you know. And so the
pet biscuit doesn't have the kind of effect that it
has on donut where she is able to fully become
like self aware and speak, you know, in a much
more precise way. It's like he has given intelligence and
he can speak some but it's not like an immediate effect,
and it's over time and the passage of all of
these experiences that he's like, it's not that he doesn't
know what happened or that he doesn't have memory of it,
but it's just that the processing for him is very different.
So he's you know, she dies via a crossbow bolt,
and he feels like he should have done something to
keep her from being killed. And I know that it's
not the same situation because obviously they were together in
the before times. But I do wonder sometimes, like considering
how attached Mango has become to Donut, what Mango would
do if Donut died. I'm gonna set aside what Donut
would do if Carl died, because their relationship is a
very different dynamic than Voltigu's was, because he really was
a pet for a majority of the Dungeon. It seems
like in a way that Donut stopped being as soon
as she had that pet biscuit, you know. So there's
this mention of her dying and that that fear turned
to rage and that's when the cookbook came to him.
It's really interesting because it sounds as if it's the
rage that triggers receipt of it. And with Carl the
way that it appeared, it was an option in these
items that he could choose between, so it didn't just
come to him. He had to pick it, which I
am curious about, like the mechanics of this and whether
this is always the case, because you know, the cookbook
came to him, is all it says, and there's no
real details about that, so I am wondering about just how.
And we also find out that like he gets the cookbook,
but he doesn't see the hidden messages for a couple floors,
and by the time he notices, he kind of feels like, well,
this is just useless to me. Now at the very
end of the ninth floor, as the orc armies roared
in victory, did he find make his one and only
entry into the book? If we have seen that entry,
and I feel like we have because this name is
ringing a bell. I don't remember what it is. I
don't I don't know if it's okay for you guys
to tell me. There's plenty of things that it's sort
of like. The point is that the reader will have
forgotten by the time we get there, like Nicholas Flamel,
you know, so I don't want y'all to remind me
if it's the sort of thing that like, it's more
fun if I can't remember. But I did. I did
want to mention Kse I am supposed to remember, Michael says.
I think it was probably similar to what Bianca the
hell Goat got, probably made him stronger and gave him
a bit more intelligence, but not full human like sentience.
An option that was glinting like a key item in
a video game. Yes, which also is what happened with
another item with And that was what Carl like, he
remembered this effect on an object that I think it
was the uh was it the little figure in the
glass box? I can't remember. I feel like that's it.
That was oh man. The basically it's the same kind
of creature as what uh, oh my god, what is
his name? Guys? I keep wanting to say, Bastion. Why
it's uh, you know, tiger man, and he has all
those beanie baby things, and Carl has like an epic
version of that that. I think it had that same
effect on it when he was looking at it. But anyway,
upon exit he'd found the Outreach Guild, suddenly the magical
properties of his adopted race didn't work anymore, not outside
the dungeon. That was something they didn't tell you. When
you changed your body, They changed you and they couldn't
change you. Excuse me, is that still true? Or was
that only true for him? That's insane. I didn't know
that this was something that you just couldn't change back
at all. I had no idea. I don't know what
I thought was going on, but I just didn't think
that it was like simply not an option, and the
fact that there are going to be properties to your
body that you've chosen that only work in the dungeon,
and then those are taken away. So it's not just
that you're changing permanently, but you're also taking on a
form that has distinct advantages, and then those advantages are gone,
So you're winding up with like a non functional body
in certain ways, which is just so fucked up. His entry,
Michael says, wasn't back in the Butcher masquerade. I miss her.
I miss her so goddamn much. Is it worth it
to survive this place with her gone? No? No, I
don't think it is. Right before Miriam dom sad chapter,
which is very fitting now that we know who Foltigue is. Yes, okay,
that makes sense. So anyway, he gets this thankless, shitty
job and he uh is just kind of like sleepwalking
through this life that he doesn't really even want. His
two partners and only real friends were a wheelchair bound
gin and a former human cave fairy who could no
longer fly and would get severe burns if she was
exposed too long to most UV light, which is just
fucked Like can you imagine you choose a fairy and
then you are stuck in that but you can't fly anymore?
Like how worthless? I'd be so pissed. Oh my god, y'all.
There's like so much about this whole thing that of
course is disgusting, But there's something about finding this out
now that really just you know what I'm saying, It's
just every new thing I find out is so gross
to a new level. And it's because of the effects
that like go beyond the dungeon. The dungeon itself is
so terrible. But then to find out that these choices
have this ripple effect of consequence that nobody warns them about,
which of course they're not going to because for the
most part they're gonna think that you aren't going to survive.
But also you want to make deals with them if
you know so the ideally, I guess the idea is,
we're going to hope that you pick a body that
makes you so vulnerable because you can't do anything once
you're out of here, that you'll take whatever job and
whatever shitty treatment because you have so few options. Is
really like I think the long con here, right. So
he's here on the surface now, Weeper Commander Voltigue for
the Operatic Collective. His racial abilities had thankfully been returned
to him, and he hadn't been dragged away to the
Bone Clan like all the other former Crawler turned mercenaries.
Fatigue had entered the dungeon as a pet that gave
him a slightly different designation on the form, and someone
working for the Pacifist network embedded deep in the bureaucratic quagmire,
had changed the code on that designation to make it
appear as if he was something else. They thought he
was a former indenture like the Bobkas and so many others,
not a crawler, just another refugee, which we still don't
really know all about the Bobkas either, so that's interesting.
He didn't know for certain what had happened to the
segregated former crawlers who'd been stupid enough to get themselves
back in the dungeon on the wrong side of the fight,
but Voltigue thought it was pretty damned obvious King Rust
had suddenly jumped several levels. The purpose of the Ring
of Divine Suffering was to raise stats, not levels, but
that's what happened when you fed it anyway. I just
that's so gross. It's so gross. It's so disgusting. You
have to help, but you have to do it in
a way where nobody will ever know it was you
if they suspect a former crawler is involved, though, purge
the mercenaries of the few former crawlers amongst them. For
all his brilliance, Porthos had underestimated the brutality of the
trapped warlords. The former Crawlers were dead before Voltigue was
ever discovered. It was too late for them, and he's
just watching King Rust get murdered by Rosetta, and it's
just like, Wow, he killed all those guys to level
up and then look did nothing for him fucking dead.
Which this is so like the bitterness of this moment,
in the satisfaction, you know, there's just this awful mixture.
I absolutely I think this might be one of the
most devastating new povs we've gotten. And when I say
new POV, I recognize that this isn't like it is,
but oftentimes that sort of implies it's a permanent thing.
But you know what I'm saying, Like, we have been
in a lot of awful former Crawler minds and seen
some history and whatnot, but this is different. This is
just something different. So we get you know, Stalwart being
like what's happening and them being like, your father's dead
and if you hadn't stayed behind like a little bitch,
maybe you'd know that, but no, you didn't. And we
find out about like Princess Formidable and what she told them,
which is very funny considering that it seems the world
won't be ending, so she's just destroyed their business for
no reason, which is just life comes at you fast,
doesn't it. Their only hope was to break the Princess posse. Now,
while they had some semblance of unity, and they'd been
so confident, even cowardly, Hortense himself had come along being
pulled on a flat litter, and I liked this. The
operatics had likely done a cost benefit analysis and saw
they'd achieve a point zero one percent profit if he
came in person. So that's what they did, which, like,
is it when you read it in a way, it
sounds like a joke, But this is the way things work.
It genuinely is like, you know, it's very literal, and
it's easy to be like, oh yeah, jeez and sort
of roll your up, but like, this isn't a joke.
So he's named new leader of the block, which is
being disputed by Stalwart, and as leader, he says, I
guess we attack, which is like, wow, what leadership. So
they begin to head forward and Voltigue looks around make
sure that you know, he's going to be positioned in
the right place, and he pushes this button to listen
to some mozart piano because Foltigue's new race can't really
sing the race he had picked like that he couldn't sing.
After having been a songbird is devastating to him. Music
is just a big deal, and that that was part
of what also like fucking hit me with this, I
swear to God. And the way that he has been
conscripted to do this is Porthos saying to him like,
it is not too late for you to do something
about her death. You don't have to feel this shame.
You can still do something. So he goes into the
midst of the army and they're like, dude, what are
you doing. What's happening? Did you, like, is your tank
fucked up or something? And he's just like, yeah, well,
and he smokes a blitztick and says, show me mistress
hens bar. So that's like his last you know, moment
of being alive, is like reaching for the past, still
never having let go, you know. And he blows it up.
And when I say blows it up, this is not
a normal like it. He takes out according to this
like little descriptor ten thousand fellow soldiers with a single blast,
which is bonkers. I can't like, that's bananas, and I
can't help but be like, I hate that you were
so prepared to take a suicide mission. I hate that
you were in this state, but thank you, you know,
And I have to imagine that's why Rosetta is crying later.
But it may be about the money too for her.
Maybe that's it. I could be a combo. I don't know,
but yeah, this is just so it's just so devastating, y'all.
Oh God, Michael says, this poorthous guy was clearly planning
far far ahead, and it sounds like he didn't let
Tippet or Rosetta or anyone else know about Voltigue, or
at least they were smart enough to not let anything slip.
He had the ace in the hole that might have
helped them survive a seemingly insurmountable situation, Planted a long
time in advance, his line to Voltigue did ping. My
uh oh, is he a manipulative bastard with his own
agenda beyond what we know? Sense though? You mean like
that it's not too late to do something. It's like
it's one of those things where I can see it
being a manipulation tactic, but it's also so literally true,
and this is doing something and it's like a profound
something honestly that I don't know. Manipulation doesn't necessarily have
to be a lie, So I guess, you know, Michael says,
talking someone into a suicide mission always makes me raise
an eyebrow, even if it's for a good cause. That's
sort of the uh, the like odd quality about it
is like we don't know exactly what it was that
he was proposed from the start. I could see this
guy being the one to be like, I'll go I'll
fucking die if it means taking them out, and like
coming up with this idea himself as they begin to
put forth here's what we're thinking of doing. It's it's
such a tricky you know, it's I think about it
a lot because when it's part of why I'm like
the state, the mental state that he was in is
it's not a fair place to be when you make
this kind of choice. But also nothing about any of
this is fair, And I don't know is it, Like
is exploiting that okay when it's for a cause? Like
that's a constant repeating theme in this story is like
when is it okay? And when not? How desperate do
you have to be and what does it cost you?
And like, you know, regarding the children getting involved, you know,
It's just it's a really it's a blurry, weird line.
And I almost feel like there's no other way this
guy could die that would that he would feel like
there was any meaning to his life. I could see
that being almost an act of mercy for him. You're like, look,
you're going to die, but clearly you don't seem to
want to be alive anymore. And what if I told
you you would not only die, but you would find
like a tiny bit of peace perhaps in the moment
before because you fucked them hard. And that's really really
fucking compelling, man, you know, when you've been through what
this guy has been through. So and also the fact
that like he wasn't even a person to start off with.
So he's here because the pet Biscuit did something to
him that he didn't choose and didn't want necessarily either.
Not that I'm believing her, you know, but like it's
just such a all of this is just because of
interference of other people and their like brutality and abuse
and lack of seeing you as any sort of like
living being with agency at all. So we start chapter
thirty five and Carl has thrown a smoke mantle as
they begin to like charge two guards fell as I
ran no not felt they were just gone, like they'd
been sucked below the surface. And Donut is saying that like,
we're going the wrong way, Carl, and he says, we
gotta loot the orc and then retreat, which as they
are heading forward, Rosetta is falling to her knees and
is at the data pad, and He's like, what the
fuck is she even doing? She has a ring that
is like pressed into the data pad somehow, and she
tells him I need his head for a retina scan.
Grab his head. He doesn't know what this is about,
but he obeys orders. And as they are heading back
and she says take his corpse too, He's like, where
the fuck did you even come from? Where did this
tunnel come from? And this is the part that I
am really like feeling twitchy about, you know, is the
fact that there's this whole thing that apparently is going
on that Karl doesn't know about it all. It's sort
of funny because later on he says something about how
the king being killed and him not being the one
to do it is making him feel like he's sort
of losing control of things and He says it in
a way like as comparing it to what happened when
she Maria took over his body. As tempted as I am,
and I am to dismiss this as you're just a
control freak, Carl. That's just that's all it is. Really,
I think what it is is him recognizing that he's
being manipulated by people whose objectives he thought he knew
and now is realizing that maybe there's more than he understood,
or at the very least they are, you know, coming
at this whole problem with methods that he's not involved
with at all, and he definitely wants their help and
definitely wants to be like he just also would like
to be at the center of every plan and to
know everything that's going on at all time. And if
you really stop and like consider the position that Carl
is in, I can't help but understand why, if I'm
giving them a big benefit of the doubt here, why
they wouldn't want to involve him, because like bro is
under such scrutiny all the time, and Voltigu's POV he
says something about how like Carl was practically shouting from
the rooftops that he had the cookbook, you know. So
the fact is that if you really want to keep
some shit truly secret, you probably don't want Carl or
Donut anywhere near it. Unfortunately, and yet, because of who
Carl is, and because of the way that he has
like been feeling like he's being played with, this would
not be a good feeling to have coming from your allies,
you know. So I understand his feeling, but I also,
if the motive is what I'm thinking, really get where
he's coming from. And the whole thing with like taking
the money. This is the kind of thing where it's
very easy to be like, oh, so it was all
for money, but like we're talking literal billions here, so
it's not just money in quotes. It's the kind of
money that shifts entire hierarchies and power structure. It's a
sea change, and considering everything, money is super necessary to
achieve this sort of thing. We just don't We can
acknowledge that money runs the world, but when it comes
to like taking money, we'll get very precious about it
and be very like, oh, does this makes me look greedy?
It is like cheapen our cause somehow, and it's like, no,
you need resources. That's like, it's just it's the kind
of thing where an image is weaponized against you, the
same way that like, if you get violent, you'll be
suddenly painted as this, and it's like you're fighting back
against violence. That's why you're doing this. It's because of
the violence that has been inflicted on you. But suddenly
when you do it, it's a problem. You know, it's
that exact kind of double standard. But it can be
very effective in quelling people or making their cause seem
less legitimate or whatever. So I'm trusting that this money
is going to something that's like going to be a
bigger picture assistance, but it may not be. I don't know.
Even if it's not, I can't really be that mad
about it, because, like, whoever it's for, Rosetta's not getting
out of here to spend that money. She knows that,
you know, So whomever it's for, it's not her personally,
unless there's some way to leverage it to get that
money back into the Crawl somehow on their behalf, which
I don't know how this stuff works, so I don't
know if that's possible or not. But anyway, I'm just
I get Carl's feelings. But I also am just like, yeah, Carl, newsflash,
you aren't the center of the universe. I know it
can feel that way when you get given the button
to destroy everything. I really understand how it would start
to make you feel like you are the main character TMTM,
and for us he is, but in this whole thing
he's not. So we have these people approaching that are
on these bonkers clockwork animals. This is so wild. There
were horse like creatures, but there was one that was
a dinosaur similar to mango, a horse size cat like
a panther an insect. The riders themselves all wore glowing,
flowing robes with their faces obscured, and He's getting this
sense of foreboding as he is looking at them. And
this is when Rosetta is like, get you know, get
back into the tunnel. They won't be able to use
this ladder, and he's like, tunnel, what do you mean?
So this is when they all like fall a dozen feet.
My nipple burned with pain as my quarter splat activated,
which I appreciate this being mentioned because I was just like, wait,
what the amount of gear and abilities that Carl and
Dona are working with has to be so tough to
keep track of. I don't know how this author is
managing to do this, honestly, you know it is like,
do you every time they do anything, do you have
to pull up their character sheet and look through all
of their abilities and all their gear and everything. Like
it's just gotta be And you have to have like
a bunch of beta readers who are really committed to
and who know this sort of thing well enough to
be able to keep it in mind themselves and call
out if you fuck up, because you're inevitably going to
fuck up. So this is always any time that an
ability we haven't seen in a while, or a protection
from an item I forgot he had, comes up, I
always have this moment of just like Jesus, how do
you remember, I jumped to my feet, looking about, surprised
at all the white dots with a green outline from
Team Retribution, and they are all Dwarfs. This was clearly
not something built by Justice Lights team, but an older
tunnel built and fortified by the Dwarves. It was the
size of a tunnel built for cars. Then I remembered
what Juice Box had told me. They had passages like
this intersecting the entire floor. They were built so the
massive dwarf and diggers could get from point A to
B quickly. And I'm really like hoping that this doesn't
give away a little bit too much them falling through here.
She says they can't use the ladder to get down.
That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't like track the
tunnel from above somehow, and like collapse things. Just fingers
crossed that this isn't like going to completely ruin everything.
And let's see. A group of dwarves shouted and rushed
off into the darkness as I shook my head trying
to clear the confusion away, and they're yelling destroy the heads,
destroy them quick, which I'm assuming is the brainworms thing.
And then there is this huge explosion that we know
where this is coming from. Dirt showered part of the
tunnel started to collapse, blue light filled the chamber. As
you know, there's all this stuff happening, and MANI is
just like, what the fuck happened? Later on, understandably, Florin
is just like Carl was at you, which I do
kind of love that everybody anytime there's a huge explosion,
everyone assumes it's Carl. Of course you would. I would
system message Warlord Horde. Tense has fallen. Credit has been
ruled as accidental or a fragging incident, which would be
funny as shit investigation is pending. And I thought that
was surprising because honestly, initially my assumption was that, like
somehow an AI function was what helped hide Voltigue's presence.
You know that the code being changed was something that
the aid. So when it says here like I'm not
sure what happened, essentially it could be lying, I guess,
but I don't feel like it would bother it indicates
that there is still stuff happening outside of the AI's
purview that it doesn't know about, which later on it
actually says I'm not omniscient and we all have our limitations,
which becomes something of a mantra. The Operatic Collective has
been defeated. All assets have been awarded to the Bone Clan.
This is when we see Rosetta crying as she whispers
and presses a button and there is a like automated
thing on the data pad that says transfer approved, thank
you for using Colloid Bank, and Rosetta just stands there
and drops the data pad for a second and then
is like sobbing uncontrollably. So the timing of this is
why I sort of thought it was like maybe also
about altigue, but I'm thinking maybe it's just purely the
money situation and getting back at this guy and taking
everything from him. I don't know what friend this dude
killed Russ, because later it's mentioned that this was like
a revenge thing for her, which of course we knew
it had to be anyway, But I'm wondering if there's
something on behalf of her friend that she has done
with that money or genuinely don't know it could simply
be killing him wasn't going to be enough. I wanted
to destroy him and everything that he stood for, which
his daughter had kind of started to do anyway. So
what did she say? The bad guys are retreating, Karl,
what is going on is Kotchya's is that Kotscha sponsored work.
Lady's still going to try to blow us up. And
this is when Rosetta is like, wait a minute, what
And I get confirmation that people don't know about the
failsafe yet but they will in short order. And this
is when Carl gets transported away to the Desperado Club
to talk to Orrin again and the one Let's see.
I blinked at the wall. The wallpaper had changed. It
was now multi colored wood paneling links, something one would
see in a high end establishment. There was a framed
painting of Astrid, the former manager Kotcha and I had
killed it, had King Rust's gore. I had King russ
gore spread all over me and I could smell it.
I suddenly felt sick. So the Operatics had been defeated.
The Orcs were still a faction because Stalwart was the warlord,
not Rust, but still the death of Rust had staggering implications.
And this is when he thinks about things being sort
of out of his control. And as much as he
kind of wants to be mad at Rosetta, he can't be.
He's feeling the same way that I felt last episode,
where I was just like, look, does it kind of
fuck up our plan that we had? Perhaps? But is
it also like completely satisfying and her right to do it? Yes.
So we get Orrin, who is on the phone with
somebody I am assuming Stalwart, and basically the conversation that
is being had is Stalwart if it is him, which
I am assuming, arguing that this transfer for shouldn't have
been allowed, this money transfer that Rosetta did, and orin
telling him, hey, I don't know if you remember, but
you and your lawyers were the ones who made it
so that this was possible despite our recommendations that there
be some restrictions put in place. We advised that this
not the blackout, include financial transactions, and y'all said no,
and all of this is completely within the rules of
the game. It is fair play. Just because it happened
to you and not to the people you're targeting like
you expect, it doesn't mean it's suddenly not allowed. And
he actually finally just like hangs up on him. But
this is when he says, the theft of a few
billion credits is simply not my problem and hangs up. So, yeah,
oh here it is. He says, I just hung up
on the Prime Minister of the Syndicate. It wasn't it
wasn't Stalwart my bad. For the record, Harbinger is here,
along with a few other liaisons you've yet to meet,
which later on he says something about how Harbinger is gone,
but that he'll he's probably making his way back. So
there's a bunch of stuff happening that we can't even see.
There are creatures that suddenly become visible a little bit
later that hadn't been there. It's it's a lot to
keep track of. There's a lot of different moving parts
in this interview, and that's all just before even the
AI actually shows up. So what you know I said
last time, like Carl saying I don't think it's gonna work,
is that is he going to say something that gives
away or behave in a way that is too obvious
that he's not worried, not thinking about the fact that
they're going to be monitoring the chats, which in a
way I knew, but in another I didn't. You know,
I'm not surprised exactly. I'm just sort of like, oh god,
I was just hoping maybe you guys like weren't tuned
in all the time or something. I don't know. And
Carl asks for Quasar and is told we don't have
time for lawyers and shit right now, to which Carl
understandably is like, oh don't we Oh why because you
guys are the ones that are in danger now. So
now we got to start taking shit super seriously because
it's like now important, fuck you, And that's sort of
his attitude throughout this entire exchange, is or in asking
Carl to help, and Carl being like, literally, why would
I help? You? Give me any reason, anything convincing as
to why I would do a thing you asked. I
have a list of demands. You can fulfill these, but like, otherwise,
what the audacity to even ask me? You know? So
at this point he says something about how like we
know a lot, but we need clarifying details, and Carl
sort of like smirks to himself, and it's like, there's
no way that they know clarifying detail, or there's no
way they know as much as they're saying, or else
I'd already be dead, which once we find out what
they know, actually they know quite a lot more than
I think he was ready for. And it's just they're
keeping him alive because I don't think they are certain
how all this works, so it's possible killing him might
set it off, maybe depending on how it's you know,
how it's structured. They don't know anything about, and I
don't like, I'm not sure how much they can see
of the board that he looks at his interface and everything.
It's hard for me to like tell exactly what it is.
They can observe and you know what I mean, So
I think correct me if I'm wrong. Again. As far
as they know, he's still got the button and is
still in control in a way that makes him both
like important to protect and also really dangerous in somebody
that we want. Dad. If I'm not right about that,
please please let me know, so let's see. Sorry, Michael says,
they did blow a Star system's worth of wealth paying
for everything. What better way to refill the coffers than
to take an even bigger Star systems worth of wealth. Well,
probably not the whole empire is worth, but I'm sure
King Rust had a decent percentage of that money, Michael says.
And of course they're going to be watching carlon donuts chance.
In particular, they might not even be able to kill
him right now out at least outside of the Dungeons rules.
The AI is in control, that's true. Is like, the
AI is definitely hell bent on keeping him alive. But
the AI was like not letting Victory know about the
NPC that had been what's the word compromised I think
is the one the word that she used by that
entertainment consortium that he had signed a contract with. So
even though the AI might not let them, it's not
like they can't get past it. Maybe sometimes depending so
I wouldn't count on that too much. That's all I'm saying.
The AI isn't omnipotent, omniscient. Omnipotent and omniscient. What's the difference? Actually,
I don't I'm wondering. I guess omniscient is sees everything
that's happening, but omnipotent is simply knowing everything that is right.
So omniscient is more. I have the power to observe,
but I don't necessarily know what to make of what
I'm observing, and would know exactly what a thing is
and what's happening and why and all that. So anyway,
this is when he being Orrin uses this ball to
remove the the AI controls that give Carl his boosted strength,
his resistance to pain like on his feet and whatnot.
And it's just a really scary moment anytime that they
do this, because it reminds me how at the mercy
of the dungeon itself, Karl is for a lot of
the power that I take for granted he has access to,
you know, just being shown how much of that is
simply programming is crazy. Granted, AI turns it back on
and is just like I let you guys turn it
off to let you feel like you had some control.
I was being nice, so it's not as if they have.
Like ultimately, the AI being interested in protecting Carl helps,
but that still doesn't change the fact that all the
power I'm used to Carl having is that the whim
of people outside of Carl himself, you know, And that's
really really jarring to remember. And when finally Oren is
like we know this, we know this, we know this,
we know this, Carl just says, how did you figure
it out? And he says, welcome into the party, pals.
Never before has a single sentence caused so much fear
amongst my team from there. It took some doing, but
we finally caught the conversation between you and the residual
just a few short hours ago. So yeah, that just
saying that out loud, and they all like felt, oh,
what the fuck does that mean? And I love Carl
just being like I knew I should have fucking not
said it, and God, this is so relatable. I was
just talking. I do live recordings for The Dressed and
Files with Rashaan on Wednesday mornings and yesterday morning. We
were talking about like each of us as individuals and
our ability to keep our mouths shut or not depending
on the situation, and when we can be relied on
to keep a secret and when we are absolutely gonna
blurt some shit out, you know. And I related to
this very much him saying this thing that gives it
away and being like, oh God, damn it, I should
have known. Yeah, I've had this feeling like a number
of times in my life. Forgive my dogs, everybody. So, uh,
this is when Oran is like, so can you turn
it off? Which I was kind of surprised that, Like
it's not can you stop her from turning it off?
It's can you? But like maybe before she does or
not before she does, because his assumption is like she
doesn't have control, like she thinks she's gonna try and
do it and it won't do anything, But you do
have control and can you do it? So Oran is
like backing victories play here essentially is what it comes
down to. And this is when Gary comes in Growler Gary,
and it takes the second, but it is made clear
pretty quick this is a growler Gary skin with an
AI inside it, just using him as an avatar for
right now. And he comes in the Ai, whom I
shall refer to from now as Gary, and he says
I have to intervene because Uren, I thought we were friends,
but you were trying to kill me. And throughout all
of this, he's drinking out of this bottle of vodka
that Karl takes from him that's ice cold. He drinks it,
he feels it, he tastes it, and then later on,
when Formidable drinks the rest of it, he makes another
bottle just appear. So he's got this like this ability
to really actually control matter in a way that's difficult
for me to fully get my head around, because I'm
used to this sort of character. And when I say
this sort of character, what I mean is a being
with a lot of power, but who has a sort
of immature approach to things, either because they are like
just an agent of chaos for fun, or in this case,
because they're like actually somewhat young and just figuring things out.
I'm used to them being able to manufacture a lot
of illusions, but that when a regular person goes to
interact with those illusions, suddenly the thing either vanishes into
smoke or it transforms into something else. So, you know,
you thought you were about to take a drink of vodka,
but then all of a sudden, it turns into like
a pencil cup that he just like took off of
the desk in the room and transformed to make it
look like you know, or you drink the vodka and
you feel like you can taste it, but there's nothing
going down your throat or you can't feel the effects
of it or anything like the fact that all of
what he is doing is real. Is it's not just
an illusion or a transformation of some other object. Is.
It's a lot for me to fully comprehend. And I
sort of appreciated how it's an ongoing thing in this
scene because I keep backing away from it and making
it that it's just like, oh, he's just changing the
way things look in here, when obviously he can take
away the zero zone, he can pull Formidable out of
her ship and bring her here. He has a level
of control over everything that is terrifying. He has his
limitations as we know, but nevertheless, it is it is
so much power and to such a degree that what
he can affect is boggling my mind. And it's interesting
because like the limitations that he keeps citing, I feel
are somewhat more fluid than we want to believe that
they are, and maybe are changing by the moment depending
on how aware he becomes. And I'm wondering because you know,
there's a point later where Formidable is like, can't you
change the rules, and he's basically like no. So you know,
I want him to just like gather all the ships
that are orbiting and smash them all together and kill
all these assholes that are like part of this whole thing,
but obviously that's not something he can do, so I
like finding where that line is is going to be something,
So let's see. Oh and there's also like Gary's he
sticks his hand down and he's like, my hand is
shaking a little bit, do you see it? He just
like wants to be alive so bad. And there's something
in this that's also really like sad. You know, he's
wanting his hand to be shaking because he wants to
be experiencing real emotion and it's still not quite there.
It feels like we're getting closer, for sure, but it's
just a different there's a longing in the midst of
all of this, especially once, of course he starts talking
to Doughnut later, but we'll get there. So Orin is like, uh,
why are you here when there's a crawler here? Because
evidently the AI does this like fairly often. He says,
we have business, all three of us. I need advice. Uh.
And Oran interrupts and is like, is Carl correct, can
you stop Princess Formidable? Or is this all theater before
we die? And this is when he's like, you want
to see something cool? And it takes two tries, but
he does turn off the zero zone. This is when
Oran is like, do you know how much those zone
shields cost? And he's like, no, I'm not omniscient. We
all have our limitations. I knew it did something, same
with your chair, which I don't know if we know
what the chair does. But that's not the trick. This
is the trick. And this is when Formidable appears and
it's just like, what the fuck? Where am I are
my people? Okay? And I just really, you know, as
much as the orcs fucking blow of her being worried
about her people, I did appreciate, because like, there are
certain folks who just this wouldn't even occur to them
to worry about. So she asks if her father is
really dead, and when she ignores the vodka bottle, at first,
I'm like, yeah, makes sense, But once she finds out
that he's actually dead, she's like, ah, fuck it, and
she takes it and finishes it off, and let's see.
Orrin says, you've demonstrated to me your control has extended
outside of Earth's orbit, and you likely have control all
the way to the star, which means you've disabled the
fail safe. And this is when Formidable it's like, oh, fuck,
we're too late. And he's like, I mean yeah, but
I'm not gonna like blow the system up or anything.
And she's like, well then what are you gonna do?
And he goes, uh, mijor beeswax, this is not of yours,
and you'll know what you need to know, and you
need to know it and not anytime sooner, and I
was just like, damn. So he gives her some choices
on where she can go. Let's see four choices death
Scolephendra Club, the cabaret, backstage specifically, or Earth's surface, and
of course she's like, I want to go back to
my ship and he's like, yeah no, and then she's like, well,
I want to go into the dungeon then, and he's like,
that's breaking the rules and I can't do that. And
finally she chooses the surface, and Gary says, a shame,
I hope she knows how to swim after sending her off,
So evidently she just gets dropped into the ocean formidable. Actually,
I'm hoping you survive. I find you kind of compelling,
you know. And I don't like her. I won't go
that far versus like Victory, who I actually do actively like,
but I am interested. So chapter thirty eight, this is
when he's like, I need advice, and actually I think
we need a female perspective, and he makes Donut appear
and Carl can't like private message her, so he's relying
on giving her three taps to let her know that
they are in danger, that this isn't just like Gary
the way it looks like, And she doesn't indicate that
she understands, but I think she does. I just think
it's a you know, a good idea to not indicate
that there was some sort of nonverbal communication because other
people will pick up on that, and you know, as
we have, they analyze things if it gets their attention.
So Gary is explaining that he needs relationship advice, and
she's like, and you're talking to Carl and Orrin, and
then she gives these two summaries. Orin is a much
too serious workaholic with only one outfit who most definitely
doesn't have a girlfriend, and if he did, he'd probably
be overly critical of her to the point where she'd
eventually move out and go back to her mother. And
we all know what happens when Carl gets a girlfriend.
I love him very much, but he is quite naive.
She could literally have Dick's reigning on her and he
wouldn't notice no offense Carl and Gary is just like, yeah,
I know, right, which we don't get anything from Carl
about like his reaction or feelings when she says this
anytime that happens, and we just like smoothsail right past
Carl's internal feelings. I am a little disappointed because I
want to know, but it's fine. I mean, what could
those feelings be other than like shame, irritation, frustration, sadness,
you know. So this is when Gary explains, you're talking
to this chick and you like her a lot. She's
just blowing your mind. Your family likes her too. But
even though everything's going great, you go online and you
see concerning things about her past. And she once had
this huge boyfriend, like who could rip a phone book
in half, and she says they're broken up because he's dead,
but turns out he's not. He's in prison. And then
you start to wonder about all this stuff she's doing
for you. Is she using you? Is she trying to
get you to fight him, is she trying to make
him jealous? Is it a threesome thing? Or maybe she's
just genuinely into you and is trying to get over
her past. And I love her, I said, yeah, it's
a good thing. He brought Donut in here. Do you
feel as if your emotional needs are being met? Donah asked,
that's the thing. I think they are, which I appreciate.
I think they are because the AI isn't going to
really even know what that looks like. How does the
AI even know if it's got emotions for real, you know,
he says, I like everything about what she's saying, which
isn't exactly the same thing, but it's the only real
frame of reference something like this is gonna have. And
she says, if you tried asking her about this other guy,
and he says, she doesn't bring him up unless I ask,
and she'll answer my questions. But I feel as if
she's being deliberately obtuse oron tries to get Gary to
talk about his family, which he will not do. And Dona,
then what does this young lady look like? I know
this isn't very feminist of me, and yes, looks shouldn't
be important, but we must be realistic about this sort
of thing. Attraction is very important in relationships. How does
she compare to say, jumping Gingen? And Oran says or
not Oran? Oh no, it is Oran. He says, she
looks like Agatha. So the mentions before of who she's
talking to or who he's talking to that is opening
his mind were indeed about Agatha. And don't not instead
of kind of like reading the room here is like
the smelly, homeless lady with the shopping car. I'm sure
she's nice, but like you can do better than that.
Gary slammed the desk with the flat of his hand.
Do not venture too far from the metaphor, he growled,
his voice suddenly angry, serious, and filled with the supernatural
amount of bass. We all have our limitations. A chill
washed over me. Yikes. Do not venture too far from
the metaphor is such an odd way to say this.
I mean, it's fine, It's just interesting that this is
what he gets mad about, you know, like, we've found
a spot here, we found a little It's not immediately
obvious what this could be exploited for, but there's something.
And I guess Carl being warned away from her when
she sees to have this kind of influence over the
AI makes sense. But I feel like the ship has
sailed already, and I don't know that y'all are helping
anything by keeping them apart in any real way. I
don't know. It all depends on so many things that
I don't know. So Donut says, is this other guy
getting out of prison soon? And he says, that's the
big question, isn't it. There's more, but it's a little complicated,
but it's pretty juicy. So I'm assuming the ex boyfriend
is another AI that is put into one of those
like weird sort of habitats that they use after the
crawl is over. I don't know if it's Michael is saying,
I am guessing the Central System AI, maybe because he
is saying how he's big. But I would imagine like
any AI that was used for a crawl before this
is going to be quite big compared to the current AI,
because it's had time to grow that this hasn't had.
So it could be though, like the Central System being
the one that's able to tear a phone book in half.
I guess that would line up. You know, this guy
in prison, he used to have another girlfriend, not the
girl i'm seeing, someone older. This older woman is still
in the picture too, sort of they're from the same hometown.
She wants him killed because she thinks he's really dangerous.
This old girlfriend she's been talking to me too, but
she's talking to me in a really roundabout way. She's
been giving me pointers on how to get stronger. I
think she wants me to kill that old boyfriend of
hers in prison. That old girlfriend and the one I've
been talking to hate each other, but I think they
kind of actually want the same thing. I don't know
who the older woman that he's been talking to could be.
They're from the same hometown, is like, is he saying
that both women are from the same hometown, or is
the older woman and the guy in prison from the
same hometown. I'm assuming that this other person that he's
talking to is a representative from the opposing side to Agatha.
I can't remember what the names are that they went by,
but Agatha was part of that cult for lack of
a better word, that wants the whole world to end
because everybody is garbage and it's irredeemable. And then there's
the side that's like, well, we don't need to end everything,
but we can certainly like direct a blow using the AI.
So I'm just trying to think who that could be,
because I feel like it has to be somebody that's
been in the dungeon. There's somebody that, like Agatha, had
been talking to before she went in, but they would
be on the same side because they were allies, so
that can't be it. I wonder if it's somebody attached
to Lucia mar because there is something really weird going
on with Lucia. She's obviously like key in this somehow
in some weird way, but I don't know how she
fits into anything. It's a strange feeling that I have
about her that doesn't have a lot of evidence to
back it up. So anyway, I'm really behind. I'm just realizing,
like I'm over time here and I haven't even gotten
to chapter thirty nine. There's so much to like talk
about here, so donut here. She just says, I'd stay
out of it unless I didn't have a choice. As
for your current girlfriend, if she can't understand that, then
it sounds more like she's using you, so I would
be careful and he's like, that's some good advice, and
then announces the game's going on as planned. Nothing else
changes and he leaves Gary's body, so Gary collapses and
when he comes back to himself he is Gary again,
but he teleports a way. And this is when Oran
is like, so you helped break the AI from containment
and Dona is like, wait, what what do you mean?
And Or is like did you do it on purpose?
And then goes, you know what. At this point, it
does not matter, and Carl says, would you rather have died,
and he's like, you know, that's a really tough question
to answer. Actually, there's going to be thousands of cycles
of death and chaos, and history's gonna remember me as
the one who let this happen. When I left the
not I said it was because I wanted to make
a difference, But at the time it was because I
wanted to be an actor and I wanted to remain pure,
not relying on someone else's death to make my mark.
I never imagined i'd find myself at the forefront of
a potential apocalypse. What what? I have a lot of questions,
but I don't have time for all of them. I'm
looking at how long this chapter is. I'm going to
it's not very long, but I'm overtime enough that I
think I'll pick it up at the start of the
next episode. So sorry about that, guys, But yeah, being
already like ten minutes over, I just think it's for
the best. But this was a lot of information, It's
a lot of reveals, it's a lot of very interesting
changing of the board, and just like the way in
which this is all shaken out, I find it a
very fun surprise how much agency the AI is turning
out to have and yet not the kind of agency
that allows it to be like the one in charge
in a real way, even though it can feel like that,
you know, it's restricted in such unknown and interesting ways.
Mm well, I guess we'll have to see all right everybody,
Thank you again, until next time to the Loo, motherfuckers.
That was an Unspoiled Network podcast.