Speaker 1: What does evil look like? Do you think you could
Speaker 1: identify it if you were looking right at it? And
Speaker 1: even if you could, do you think you could explain it?
Speaker 1: Could you explain what makes someone evil? Were they born
Speaker 1: with it? Or were they made evil? Even if you
Speaker 1: knew the answer to all these questions and you could
Speaker 1: identify evil in a heartbeat, what would you do about it? Then?
Speaker 1: Do you think you could stop it? Catherine Knight is
Speaker 1: described as being pure evil. Her actions were malicious and brutal,
Speaker 1: even against those closest to her. This is the story
Speaker 1: of Catherine Knight. My name's Ben and.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a
Speaker 2: true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Warning the following podcast material more mature audience listener. What
Speaker 1: do you mean you don't have anything? That's right there?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 2: It's empty?
Speaker 1: It's empty.
Speaker 2: I drank a lead of water today.
Speaker 1: Well, so you have a water bottle with you but
Speaker 1: nothing to drink?
Speaker 2: Right? Well? Yeah, I paulish it off while you were
Speaker 2: doing your thing getting ready.
Speaker 1: The intro gotcha, So you have no.
Speaker 2: Today and you don't either.
Speaker 1: I've got water because well I made Margarita's for dinner.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Okay, that's why I don't feel like having any.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, are we pre drank?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's so funny here. I'm like, oh, I haven't
Speaker 2: had a drink today, and I forgot that you had
Speaker 2: a drink today.
Speaker 1: You had a big old mar garita. It was fantastic,
Speaker 1: it was delicious. Yeah. So yeah, we're back from vacation.
Speaker 1: We had a fantastic time. Stayed in maybe a haunted hotel,
Speaker 1: in a haunted house, who knows, only because they were
Speaker 1: super old. That's why I have suspicions. But there was
Speaker 1: no ghost to be found.
Speaker 2: Just everything everywhere we stay now we think is haunted.
Speaker 1: Apparently I kind of just I don't know. They were.
Speaker 1: They had the vibe, you know.
Speaker 2: But then the actual place that was haunted was the
Speaker 2: new built maybe who knows. Maybe that we stated.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was.
Speaker 2: You never know.
Speaker 1: Dun, dun, dun. Yeah, but it's good to be home.
Speaker 1: It is good to be on track, get our things together.
Speaker 2: It was June was very busy, so I feel like
Speaker 2: July it's kind of just take a deep breath.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, although we still got shit going on,
Speaker 1: like yeah.
Speaker 2: We always we always have shit going on, but not
Speaker 2: quite as much shit, No one.
Speaker 1: Thing that's really cool though, is we are headed down
Speaker 1: to a local brewery on Wednesday to do a local
Speaker 1: true crime trivia night, which.
Speaker 2: Is all awesome and it sold out, like so cool, like.
Speaker 1: That sold out. And we've been prepping for this for
Speaker 1: a while. So I got some epic and I mean
Speaker 1: epic true crime trivia questions which will probably like doing
Speaker 1: reels and shorts and stuff. Yeah, so you guys will
Speaker 1: be able to do that as well and take part.
Speaker 2: And none of them, all of them are easy questions. No,
Speaker 2: got to bring your a game to this.
Speaker 1: There are going to be some of them that we're
Speaker 1: going to put up there on for you guys as well,
Speaker 1: on like reels, shorts or whatever. I do not expect
Speaker 1: you guys to get it, because they are a little
Speaker 1: more tailored to our local area. So we will put
Speaker 1: those ones up there still because who knows some of
Speaker 1: you might actually still know it.
Speaker 2: I don't only think of one.
Speaker 1: Well the one in particular, okay, but there was, uh
Speaker 1: the other one with the highway.
Speaker 2: Oh no hints here know No, I'm not getting okay, okay,
Speaker 2: we're gonna I'm shutting you down here that's too.
Speaker 1: Much saying highway. Yeah, okay, fair, fair.
Speaker 2: We got to keep this a secret because some of
Speaker 2: those people that are there might be listening to.
Speaker 1: That that's true episode. Well, if they listen to this
Speaker 1: episode before the trivia night and they get that clue
Speaker 1: and do their homework on it in the meantime, props
Speaker 1: to them for it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like that's a big old hint.
Speaker 1: Not really for one question. Yeah, not really, because that
Speaker 1: question can go a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: But we are also going to be streaming it over
Speaker 1: on our Patreon live as well. Yeah, so that's gonna
Speaker 1: be awesome. It's gonna be accessed accessible for anyone over
Speaker 1: a Patreon to join live for the whole event.
Speaker 2: And speaking of Patreon, got some to thank, don't we.
Speaker 1: We do. So these individuals signed up for a Patreon
Speaker 1: this week and they're going to have that behind the
Speaker 1: scenes access, the exclusive content and access to the live
Speaker 1: stream on Wednesday for the trivia. So the people who
Speaker 1: joined we have Juno, Poppy, Dina Costa, Corey Stefan, Jessica Beer,
Speaker 1: and Jessica Nice.
Speaker 2: That's a good list of names right there, it is.
Speaker 1: They all get that awesome access and there's some pretty
Speaker 1: wicked people right there.
Speaker 2: Cool, thank you, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: So you're ready to dive into today's case.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm actually a little bit worried because
Speaker 2: you were some things were coming out of the office
Speaker 2: today when you were like researching.
Speaker 1: What was I doing. I didn't tell you anything.
Speaker 2: You didn't but you were just like, whoa or shit
Speaker 2: or whoa? That's a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, this is a brutal case. This is the as
Speaker 1: I already mentioned, the case of Catherine Knight, Catherine Mary Knight,
Speaker 1: be more specific. Okay, we've had many requests to cover her.
Speaker 1: She's been on my list to cover for a long time,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just time to do it. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of details within this on the build up
Speaker 1: side that I was really like, holy shit, didn't know
Speaker 1: about that. Didn't know about this?
Speaker 2: Like you, Oh, okay, so you're about to blow our monds.
Speaker 1: I am about to blow your minds okay, And uh,
Speaker 1: just a heads up for you guys. This is a
Speaker 1: two parter.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, you're kind Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I should tell you guys, but
Speaker 1: it's gonna be in the title anyways, it'll say part
Speaker 1: one unless I really want it to be mean and
Speaker 1: just posted it.
Speaker 2: You did do that one time, I did.
Speaker 1: And then like next week change it to say part one,
Speaker 1: you know, which that's really mean. I don't know.
Speaker 2: And likes to keep you guys on your toes.
Speaker 1: I do, but I also, like, I got a soft
Speaker 1: spot for you, so I kind of want to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, keep you in the know as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so you just decided to listen to your
Speaker 2: little angel today, not.
Speaker 1: The angel, not the devil. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: let's get on with the story. Ready for it? I'm ready, okay.
Speaker 1: Catherine Mary Knight committed such horrific crimes that she is
Speaker 1: considered the most brutal female murderer in Australian history, if
Speaker 1: not the most still, even if you disregard gender.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But the thing is, why is it important to
Speaker 1: include gender in that prolific most serial killer person whatever?
Speaker 1: Why is gender included in this case? Well? I want
Speaker 1: to make a big note of this because it is
Speaker 1: important that research. It's important because Reacher and sorry stumbling
Speaker 1: here right out of the gate, it's important because Reacher
Speaker 1: researchers if I can get that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a hard work for you.
Speaker 1: Today, researchers show that men are three to five times
Speaker 1: more likely to become psychopaths than women.
Speaker 2: Really, yes, Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yes, So Catherine being a psychopath is considered a very
Speaker 1: rare individual.
Speaker 2: Really, I'm searious of why that is.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she is very rare because she is a
Speaker 1: cold blooded psychopath.
Speaker 2: A female psychopathy. Okay, wow, that's that's a that's getting
Speaker 2: us ready here first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So starting off, we're going to go back into
Speaker 1: Catherine's past. We're going to start with her growing up
Speaker 1: and kind of get to know who she was. So
Speaker 1: Catherine was born on October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty five,
Speaker 1: in Tenorfield, New South Wales, Australia. Now Tennerfield is a
Speaker 1: relatively small community today, boasting a population number of around
Speaker 1: four thousand residents. So when Catherine was born, I'm sure
Speaker 1: it would have been much smaller at the time. Even now,
Speaker 1: the area was kind of like a bunch of small communities,
Speaker 1: like side to side, like you go to one to
Speaker 1: the next, to the next to the next sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So it's like they're not really all that far apart.
Speaker 1: But they're all just a bunch of small communities, towns, cities,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, her mother, Barbara, Barbara Rogan, had previously been married
Speaker 1: to another man by the name of Jack Rogan, where
Speaker 1: she instead lived in the town of Aberdeen in New
Speaker 1: South Wales in Hunter Valley. Now together they would conceive
Speaker 1: four sons in two total, but Barbara would eventually run
Speaker 1: off with another man by the name of Ken Knight.
Speaker 1: So Ken was a co worker and a friend of Jack,
Speaker 1: but that didn't work to Ken or Barbara.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yes, that's a little bit saucy, hey, just a.
Speaker 1: Little bit, I mean even more so because Jack was
Speaker 1: apparently a supervisor at the place, so she went running
Speaker 1: off with one of his workers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like employees or whatever.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Definitely don't love that, but.
Speaker 1: No, no, I don't think anyone really would.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean all that mattered to them was
Speaker 1: each other and their new life. But they were going
Speaker 1: to start together, and just like you're sitting here, oh WHOA,
Speaker 1: A lot of the people in small town thought the
Speaker 1: same thing.
Speaker 2: So they were the talk of the town.
Speaker 1: They were the talk of the town. It was a great,
Speaker 1: big scandal. It was sweeping across Everyone was talking about it, whispering,
Speaker 1: and there was a a lot of local backlash that
Speaker 1: hit them hard. There were scowls, cold shoulders, and perhaps
Speaker 1: even I'm just saying this because it's my assumption, perhaps
Speaker 1: even threats going along with it. So Barbara and Ken
Speaker 1: were eventually forced to move because of their relationship. Now,
Speaker 1: initially they moved to a town called Marie, and Barbara
Speaker 1: had to leave her four sons behind. Her two eldest
Speaker 1: boys continued to live with their father, Jack, while the
Speaker 1: other two younger sons were sent off to live with
Speaker 1: their aunt in the big city of Sydney, Australia. Okay, oh,
Speaker 1: hold on, I messed up my notes here? What did
Speaker 1: I do? That's okay, Okay, there we go.
Speaker 2: And how do we know why she couldn't take the sons.
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure. I don't know if she wanted to,
Speaker 1: or if the father wouldn't let them.
Speaker 2: Or write, Yeah, the father might have been like, no,
Speaker 2: you're not taking that.
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of more so the case. I
Speaker 1: think she just kind of left them and run off,
Speaker 1: and yeah, the father was like, fuck you, I'm keeping
Speaker 1: the kids sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, jeez, well she just broke his heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure, And especially with a whole town kind
Speaker 1: of like scolding you, I don't think it's going to
Speaker 1: be very easy to just like screw you. I'm going
Speaker 1: to run away with my new man and take the kids, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think the town was kind of on his
Speaker 1: side and he was easily able to just keep the
Speaker 1: kids right. The two lovebirds, though, were now out of
Speaker 1: town and they were on their own, and they were
Speaker 1: child free. It was time for them to have a
Speaker 1: family of their own, so together they would have a
Speaker 1: total of four children as well. Oh wow, two boys
Speaker 1: and a set of twin girls, the twin girls being
Speaker 1: born in nineteen fifty five, one of which which was
Speaker 1: Catherine Knight.
Speaker 2: Oh she was a twin, she was.
Speaker 1: And Catherine was delivered just half an hour after her
Speaker 1: sister Joy. So Barbara would eventually see more children in
Speaker 1: her life, though now in a different way than you're
Speaker 1: probably initially thinking. I want to clarify that when I
Speaker 1: was writing this, I'm like, I need to snuff that
Speaker 1: fire immediately, she didn't have more kids. It would be
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine when Catherine was four years old, her mother,
Speaker 1: Barbara's ex husband, Jack, Yeah, passed away.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, poor Jack.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the two sons that were living with Jack
Speaker 1: would then move in with Barbara Ken and their family. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they would then have a household filled with six children.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of children, it is. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of children to look after and to actually maintain a
Speaker 1: household with that many mouths to feed, yeah, is a
Speaker 1: lot to do.
Speaker 2: That would be very expensive.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when they did move in, though, the only
Speaker 1: problem was these two boys had no idea the type
Speaker 1: of family they were about to move in with. The
Speaker 1: household was extremely abusive and disfunctional.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was not how their household was prior
Speaker 2: to by the sounds of it, as.
Speaker 1: Far as I know, it was not, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know the history on how Jack had treated
Speaker 1: the children.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: And because of this, though, because of this terrible household atmosphere, understandably,
Speaker 1: Catherine was not really a confident girl at a young age,
Speaker 1: and she did not have many friends either. It was
Speaker 1: not easy for her to make friends, and her twin
Speaker 1: sister was pretty well one of the only people she
Speaker 1: really seemed to be close with, so because of how
Speaker 1: she was being raised, though she did have an extremely
Speaker 1: terrible temper, So perhaps she got this directly from her
Speaker 1: father Ken, because Ken was a ruthless man and a
Speaker 1: violent alcoholic.
Speaker 2: Was her mom also abusive? Am I allowed to ask that?
Speaker 1: Yet? We'll get there.
Speaker 2: We'll get there.
Speaker 1: We're going to touch on Ken here and then we'll
Speaker 1: move on.
Speaker 2: But it's just like, I'm already getting a little pissy
Speaker 2: because this is just like setting up a psychopath. Is
Speaker 2: that was that what you called her psychopath? Yep, it's
Speaker 2: litteral because I mean, nine times out of ten their
Speaker 2: child is shitty.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, But that begs a question that I asked
Speaker 1: in the very beginning, one of the many questions, actually,
Speaker 1: can a psychopath be made? Or are they born? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think they could be made. I do. Actually, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's my thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we'll talk about this one and it might
Speaker 1: swade some people one way or the other. Okay, So
Speaker 1: what Ken did was pretty brutal. Whatever he said goes.
Speaker 1: He ruled the rousse sort of thing. He was a
Speaker 1: man who wouldn't shy away from striking and assaulting both
Speaker 1: his kids and his wife.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Now, it is also reported that he would often sexually
Speaker 1: assault and rape Barbara multiple times a day, up to
Speaker 1: ten times a day.
Speaker 2: Apparently. Shit.
Speaker 1: Yes, that alone is an absolutely horrific thing to go
Speaker 1: through one. It's let alone many times a day, day
Speaker 1: in day out, especially when it's by an alleged quote
Speaker 1: loved one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's really disturbing.
Speaker 1: That is fucked up, is what that is. Super fucked
Speaker 1: Ken wasn't the only monster in the home, though you
Speaker 1: were asking about Barbara, well, she was reportedly no better,
Speaker 1: no no. For context, in Catherine's adolescent years, she confided
Speaker 1: in her mother about a boyfriend, reportedly a boyfriend that
Speaker 1: wanted to do a sexual act or favor that Catherine
Speaker 1: wasn't quite ready for comfortable with at the time, and
Speaker 1: upon hearing this, Catherine's mother, Barbara simply told her, quote,
Speaker 1: put up with it and stop complaining.
Speaker 2: That was the advice that she gave her daughter.
Speaker 1: That was the advice she gave her daughter.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit.
Speaker 1: So you know, I like to play devil's advocate here,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna do that for a moment. Okay, put
Speaker 1: this into content text here.
Speaker 2: Well, we're all processing this.
Speaker 1: Yes, that might just be how she was dealing with
Speaker 1: her sexual abuse at home. So maybe that's the only
Speaker 1: real advice she could she had to give it.
Speaker 2: They could muster m yeah, but generally, like you kind
Speaker 2: of want better for your kids, that's true, So then
Speaker 2: you would think you would want to change it so
Speaker 2: that they're not having like the same lifestyle as you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so wow, it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm
Speaker 1: not backing her up here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Regardless though, whether it was her intentions that way or not,
Speaker 1: Barbara seemed to give out abuse in the home basically
Speaker 1: just as much as she was receiving it. She would
Speaker 1: assault her husband, she would assault her children, both without hesitation.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's just I'm sorry, I'm still in this.
Speaker 2: That's just the most terrible advice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is like, just shut up and put up
Speaker 1: with it. Stop complaining. Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: And that's like your mom yeahow.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's supposed to be someone that you can trust
Speaker 1: and rely on. Yeah, And she's like, eh, shut up,
Speaker 1: just let him do what he wants. Oh okay, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: fucking thanks No. At times when at a time, sorry,
Speaker 1: when Catherine was still very young. I'm so kind of
Speaker 1: back from when that advice occurred. It just it was
Speaker 1: a good time to actually talk about that. So backing up,
Speaker 1: when she was still very young, Barbara would actually describe
Speaker 1: very intimate and graphic details of her sex life and
Speaker 1: personal sex life with of course her.
Speaker 2: Husband, like describe it what to her kids?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she would describe it to Catherine. She would tell
Speaker 1: her all about these very vivid details. She would spare
Speaker 1: no expense, and she would continue to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and she would tell her about her hate for her
Speaker 1: husband and how she absolutely despises men. Whoa, and this
Speaker 1: is a very young child. She is doing this too.
Speaker 2: This is like I'm like kind of sweating here. This
Speaker 2: is really like uncomfortable. Yeah, this is uncomfortable. Shit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, now you know why I was having those
Speaker 1: reactions in the office.
Speaker 2: My gosh. Okay.
Speaker 1: All the details of what occurred inside the broken home
Speaker 1: will never really be known because by the sounds of it,
Speaker 1: a lot happened in those walls, and some claims are contested,
Speaker 1: but many details have come forward and are corroborated by
Speaker 1: some of the siblings who lived in the home as well.
Speaker 2: Well. Remember how at one point I was like, poor Jack. Well,
Speaker 2: I mean poor Jack because he died. But maybe he
Speaker 2: actually like dodged a bullet by having her leave.
Speaker 1: Maybe, but she's horrid, but unfortunately he left his children.
Speaker 2: Oh, and then had to go back to her. Oh,
Speaker 2: I wonder why they couldn't go to that other family member.
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, brutal.
Speaker 1: Where am I at here?
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm making you get distracted here by it.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's all good. I'm actually like looking at
Speaker 1: the notes of my phone here, and I usually don't,
Speaker 1: so I'm like kind of out of my element looking
Speaker 1: at these notes. Yeah, oh okay, here, I got it.
Speaker 1: So one detail that Catherine would speak on about some
Speaker 1: of the stuff that she endured as a young child,
Speaker 1: and is generally accepted by psychiatrists, is the fact that
Speaker 1: she was sexually assaulted and abused by many of her
Speaker 1: family members.
Speaker 2: Many of her family members, yes.
Speaker 1: Though thankfully at least not at the hand of her father.
Speaker 1: The smallest of silver linings, but at least that's there geez.
Speaker 1: So okay, Yeah, it's not easy for anyone to live
Speaker 1: in a house like that, let alone like a child
Speaker 1: growing up in that environment. I can't begin to fathom
Speaker 1: what that life would have been like.
Speaker 2: And it's unfortunate because it's like a reality for.
Speaker 1: Some people, reality for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yeafe like, which is beyond sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean beyond set. Like I don't know, it
Speaker 1: feels like that's not a heavy enough word to say,
Speaker 1: but that's that's that nails it though. It is beyond sad.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like it's like you're helpless, Like it's you
Speaker 2: wish that you could help all of the people out
Speaker 2: there and stuff, but she just can't. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're either helpless or you're hopeless. And that is
Speaker 1: so sad to say.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, then we're real grim here today.
Speaker 1: Yeah apparently. Wow. Okay. Anyways, as I already mentioned, though,
Speaker 1: Catherine didn't have many many friends, right okay, and she
Speaker 1: didn't make them very easily either. So Aside from her sister,
Speaker 1: she was also rather close with her uncle Oscar. But however,
Speaker 1: it would hit her hard when he ended his own
Speaker 1: life in nineteen sixty nine when Catherine was just thirteen
Speaker 1: years old.
Speaker 2: I thought that was going to go a different way,
Speaker 2: but Okay, no.
Speaker 1: No, thankfully, yeah yeah. So to this day, though, however,
Speaker 1: Catherine continues to claim that his ghost still visits her
Speaker 1: at times.
Speaker 2: Oh really yes.
Speaker 1: So the same year he passed away, the family would
Speaker 1: move to another small town called Aberdeen. Here is where
Speaker 1: Catherine began attending high school. Okay, so her mannerisms will
Speaker 1: continue here as she was, you know, an outcast and
Speaker 1: a loner. Though because of her situation growing up, Catherine
Speaker 1: seemed to develop much of a different much different than
Speaker 1: normal children would have, and she would have grown up
Speaker 1: in constant fear for her physical and physical wellbeing and
Speaker 1: the potential sexual abuse. And because of such an extreme atmosphere,
Speaker 1: psychologists believed she would have begun to basically disassociate from
Speaker 1: the world around her. Basically like any sort of overwhelming
Speaker 1: times when she didn't know how to deal with things
Speaker 1: or cope, she would just go into this disassociation mode.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And this would basically just yeah, be here coping mechanism,
Speaker 1: and in turn, it left her developing her extreme temper
Speaker 1: and lack of love because at those overwhelming times she
Speaker 1: would just disassociate.
Speaker 2: Huh what I imagine She also wasn't really ever shown
Speaker 2: love either.
Speaker 1: No, I can't imagine so much.
Speaker 2: No, it was a loving household of any in any way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because of all this personality sort of stuff
Speaker 1: that was going on with her when she was in
Speaker 1: high school, basically it would turn and make her become
Speaker 1: into a bully in school.
Speaker 2: Oh really, Yes, So.
Speaker 1: Reportedly she seemed to target boys more than any other
Speaker 1: though she really didn't seem to discriminate. It was just
Speaker 1: kind of more her general target whether she flowed to
Speaker 1: so she would get angry over benign things, and it
Speaker 1: seemed like she would just assault at least one boy
Speaker 1: per day at her school per day.
Speaker 2: But that makes sense because of how her mom had
Speaker 2: like the hatred of yeah and your boys or whatever. Right.
Speaker 1: Definitely, it seemed like she just hated everybody, but she
Speaker 1: specifically hated boys. It seemed like, Okay, a lot of
Speaker 1: times she was actually trying to assault them with any
Speaker 1: sort of makeshift weapons she could find, like maybe a
Speaker 1: book in the classroom or something like that. She would
Speaker 1: just like take something and like throw it at them,
Speaker 1: hit them whatever she could. A classmate of hers would
Speaker 1: actually report at a time when Catherine and her twin
Speaker 1: sister joy were arguing over a bike, so like, whose
Speaker 1: turn is it to ride the bike home? Okay, So
Speaker 1: generally when you think of two like thirteen fourteen year
Speaker 1: old girls arguing over something, but what do you see
Speaker 1: them doing as far as an argument? How far do
Speaker 1: you think this would go? Generally speaking?
Speaker 2: Not there, man, Well, not these two. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like there'd probably be like some tears and
Speaker 2: some yelling and someone storming off. Yeah, fair enough, it's
Speaker 2: kind of how I think it would go.
Speaker 1: Maybe normal, maybe a push or a shove something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if I would see that necessarily.
Speaker 1: Okay, but like if it got physical, maybe a push
Speaker 1: or a shove will probably be as far as it goes, right, Well,
Speaker 1: these two girls, that was not the case. Far from it.
Speaker 1: They baled their fists up and they began to full
Speaker 1: out fist fight each other, punching each other as hard
Speaker 1: as they could while rolling on the ground. And that
Speaker 1: was just normal for them.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was literally how they would
Speaker 2: just get through an argument.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just beat the absolute shit out of each.
Speaker 2: Other, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Because that's how they dealt with it.
Speaker 2: Huh wow, right there, is just like a very descriptive
Speaker 2: of their childhood and stuff like it really is. It
Speaker 2: really paints a picture there.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, yeah, sorry. Another story would tell about Catherine
Speaker 1: how she would actually injure be injured sorry, by a
Speaker 1: teacher on the school grounds.
Speaker 2: The teacher injured her, or she injured a teacher.
Speaker 1: The teacher injured her, okay, and after kind of questions
Speaker 1: about it, they figured out that the teacher actually did
Speaker 1: it in self defense, oh my gosh, against Catherine.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Everyone was probably just like praying that this
Speaker 2: and none of these kids were in like their class,
Speaker 2: or that they didn't end up having them in their class.
Speaker 1: Kay, oh definitely. Now, However, this wasn't Catherine's general normal behavior.
Speaker 1: She was a well behaved kid. She was kind of quiet,
Speaker 1: she was kind of reserved and shy. She would just
Speaker 1: snap at times out of nowhere. Okay, she would be
Speaker 1: actually rewarded for good behavior from the teacher quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Like she wasn't a very good student like academic wise,
Speaker 1: but her behavior generally was good. But something would just
Speaker 1: set her off and she would fly off the fucking handlebars.
Speaker 2: Really, so it was just a switch almost.
Speaker 1: Her brain exactly which again comes to that whole disassociation thing.
Speaker 1: Catherine will be fifteen though when she did drop out
Speaker 1: of high school. She was nearly illiterate at the time
Speaker 1: that she left. But despite not having any sort of
Speaker 1: like illiterate literal literary skills or any sort of qualifications really,
Speaker 1: she was able, able bodied, and managed to get a
Speaker 1: job at a clothing factory cutting fabrics pretty much right away.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, that's good she was able to get a job. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it sucks that she had to drop out of.
Speaker 1: School, though, I agree, But I mean we are talking
Speaker 1: in the seventies though, Yeah, so it was kind of
Speaker 1: like a lot of people dropped out of school. It
Speaker 1: wasn't it was abnormal to graduate grade twelve, you know.
Speaker 1: It would be a year later, though, twelve months when
Speaker 1: Catherine obtained what she describes as her quote dream job,
Speaker 1: which was working at the local arbiter. I think I
Speaker 1: said that, right, and another word for an arbitoire.
Speaker 2: That's what Okay, I was like, I have no idea
Speaker 2: what that is even.
Speaker 1: Arbuitoire is how they say and another word for an arbitoire.
Speaker 1: And this is how I'm gonna be referring to it
Speaker 1: from here and out is a slaughterhouse.
Speaker 2: Oh and that was her dream job.
Speaker 1: Hey, that was her dream job. Now there's two parts
Speaker 1: to this. Devil's advocate here, Okay, okay, So being a
Speaker 1: butcher is by no means a red flag No, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, No, it's not. It's a legit job. I've
Speaker 1: done some butchering before. It's bloody, sure, it's kind of gross. Sure, violent,
Speaker 1: not by any means.
Speaker 2: If you describe it kind of as like a butcher
Speaker 2: like that, it doesn't sound as bad as like her
Speaker 2: dream jobs working in a slaughterhouse. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but I mean, like if you go to
Speaker 1: like many supermarkets or delis, you have a guy behind
Speaker 1: the counter cutting up meat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would definitely not like be alarmed.
Speaker 1: By that person exactly. So like most people who do
Speaker 1: this job, they're not violent. It's not creepy as fuck.
Speaker 1: A lot of people do it.
Speaker 2: It's actually an awesome skill to have.
Speaker 1: It really is. Yeah. Now, second piece to this, Catherine
Speaker 1: did have a reason for this being her dream job
Speaker 1: or why she wanted to work in this slaughterhouse. Much
Speaker 1: of the surrounding area in these small towns depended on this.
Speaker 1: This was the industry, the cow farming was huge. Many
Speaker 1: people she knew worked at this place, the slaughterhouse. Her
Speaker 1: father worked there, her brothers worked there. It was a
Speaker 1: place to go get a good paying job for many
Speaker 1: people in the area.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense then.
Speaker 1: Like for us here in northern BC, forestry is the
Speaker 1: main thing that drives you know, the economy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you're working in a sawmill or planer or
Speaker 2: palt mill or.
Speaker 1: Exactly, it's just normal around here. Yeah, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what it was for Catherine. It was just normal.
Speaker 2: Okay. Describing that makes it's not like as alarming to me.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, in hindsight, it's like, okay, maybe there
Speaker 1: are some some red flags there a little bit, but
Speaker 1: it's not a red flag for just a normal person
Speaker 1: to work there, you know, right. Yeah, So Catherine started
Speaker 1: working here. She started working at the bottom of the
Speaker 1: ranks in the workforce, cutting up scrap meats and organ meats,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But she would quickly move up
Speaker 1: and she would be promoted to boning, where she would basically,
Speaker 1: with precision, remove the meat from the bones of the beef.
Speaker 1: And it was reported that they did approximately five hundred
Speaker 1: or six hundred beef per.
Speaker 2: Day, like like cows.
Speaker 1: Yes, holy heck, which is a lot? That is so much? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's like it's a big factory, right, it's not
Speaker 1: a small little place. Like a lot of people worked here,
Speaker 1: A lot of people in these surrounding towns came here,
Speaker 1: did this sort of thing. It was just it was
Speaker 1: what drove their economy. It was her industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So along with this position, though, Catherine also got her
Speaker 1: own set of butcher's knives for her job. So having
Speaker 1: her own set of these knives manes that you are
Speaker 1: basically looking after them. You're caring for them and suring
Speaker 1: they're sharp, ready for work, ready for your shift and everything, right.
Speaker 1: And Catherine was elated with this and took pride in
Speaker 1: her knives so much so that they were her most
Speaker 1: prized possession.
Speaker 2: Okay, but is it kind of like they earned their
Speaker 2: knife their knives kind of Oh yeah, definitely. Okay, so
Speaker 2: that makes it. That makes some sense.
Speaker 1: It does make some sense. But what doesn't really make
Speaker 1: a whole lot of sense is that at home she
Speaker 1: even hung her knives above her bed so they would
Speaker 1: quote would always be handy if I needed them. Oh shit,
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of a red flag there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a little bit next level yeap, unnecessary yep, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So that's a bit crazy, I'm out sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, but sometimes people will have a weapon of
Speaker 2: sorts by their bed.
Speaker 1: That's true in case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if.
Speaker 1: You're if it's like your most prized possession that you
Speaker 1: take from work and you hang above your like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems a little bit too attached.
Speaker 2: It's a bit weird, it's a bit odd.
Speaker 1: Yes, And this is a habit she would reportedly continue
Speaker 1: everywhere she lived until her eventual arrest and incarceration.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, and I'm imagining she probably got some good
Speaker 2: use of these knives.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean she worked with them every day outside
Speaker 1: of work. Yeah, I know what you were aunt saying.
Speaker 1: So while Catherine was working happily at her job, she
Speaker 1: began to spend a lot of time, like you know,
Speaker 1: away from work. You know, you've got to go somewhere
Speaker 1: when you're not in shift, right, with a new guy
Speaker 1: that she met in nineteen seventy three. So this man
Speaker 1: was a coworker of hers, and his name was David
Speaker 1: Stanford Kellet. So David unfortunately was a very heavy drinker.
Speaker 2: Okay, Oh, so probably gave her like reminded her of
Speaker 2: her father maybe thinking, Okay.
Speaker 1: Very possible. And I do want to say, like, and
Speaker 1: those substance abuses never justified, Like, I mean, there's reasons
Speaker 1: that make it like more understandable, right, But it's like
Speaker 1: substance abuse is not like, don't do that. But he
Speaker 1: at least did have somewhat of a good reason for
Speaker 1: his substance abuse. He was likely suffering. And this is
Speaker 1: my diagnosis here from PTSD as he was involved in
Speaker 1: two very traumatic work incidents previously on another job. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he was working at Coff's Harbor on the railway
Speaker 1: when in one incident, his friend was killed in front
Speaker 1: of him, as during a train shunting incident. So train
Speaker 1: shunting is basically like shifting the cars back and forth
Speaker 1: on hooking hooking up.
Speaker 2: That would be hard to witness, I mean friend or not.
Speaker 1: Gosh, yeah, definitely. And I don't know the details on
Speaker 1: how the accident occurred, what exactly happened to the friend,
Speaker 1: but a lot of these sort of incidents during this
Speaker 1: is usually between two cars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it wouldn't have been pretty no.
Speaker 1: And the second one was he reportedly rescued injured individuals
Speaker 1: from a school bus. Injured children from a school bus
Speaker 1: that had been struck by a train.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: In the incident, six children reportedly lost their lives.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So he had like some super trauma
Speaker 2: that he was dealing with. Yes, and then back then,
Speaker 2: who knows if, like if the help that he needed
Speaker 2: was even readily available, right?
Speaker 1: Oh no, I highly doubt it was available. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he was carrying some shit and his shoulders. Like I mentioned,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure saying he had PTSD is kind of
Speaker 1: spot on with that assessment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then that wouldn't have probably even been like
Speaker 2: a thing that they well back then, would they still
Speaker 2: thought had like the diagnosis.
Speaker 1: I think they would have, like in the seventhies of.
Speaker 2: War and stuff.
Speaker 1: Probably, yeah, yeah, they would have, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it would have been as commonly recognized. So it's hard
Speaker 1: to say with him, though, he did eventually lose his
Speaker 1: job though due to a parent deteriorating behaviors and performances
Speaker 1: at work.
Speaker 2: He was probably drinking at.
Speaker 1: Work, yeah, perhaps trying to deal with the trauma, that's
Speaker 1: all wrapped up in his head, and from there he
Speaker 1: would go on to get his job at the Slaughterhouse,
Speaker 1: where he would meet Katherine. Okay, so his drinking may
Speaker 1: have started as a coping mechanism, but he had turned
Speaker 1: into a loud, obnoxious, party type alcoholic who was always
Speaker 1: getting out of control. He was just the man for
Speaker 1: Catherine really, as her drinking was starting to escalate. Though
Speaker 1: she wasn't really as much of an alcoholic from my readings,
Speaker 1: but he was a heavy, heavy drinker.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So David would soon learn that Catherine was much more
Speaker 1: than he bargained for.
Speaker 2: That's probably the nicest way you could put that.
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, that's yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: So after David popped the big question proposing to her,
Speaker 1: the couple would get married married in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, so he even married her.
Speaker 1: He definitely got married to her.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, at Catherine's request, they would arrive to their ceremony
Speaker 1: on Catherine's motorcycle, with her driving and David on the
Speaker 1: back holding onto her. Now it was quite the sight,
Speaker 1: as Catherine actually as much taller than David is He's
Speaker 1: a rather short individual, and Catherine's quite tall, and David
Speaker 1: was clearly very intoxicated.
Speaker 2: Which is actually illegal, is it not. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like you can't be signing those kind of documents when
Speaker 2: you're intoxicated.
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you meant like riding on the back
Speaker 1: of a motorcycle.
Speaker 2: Oh that.
Speaker 1: Too, I guess, yes, yeah, okay, both those things. So
Speaker 1: when they arrived at their wedding, the moment they arrived
Speaker 1: at the ceremony, before they could even walk down the aisle,
Speaker 1: Catherine's mother, Barbara, pulled David aside for some motherly advice.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm intrigued to see what the fuck this advice was.
Speaker 1: Well, this was coming from David, So, remembering back to
Speaker 1: what she had told him, David said this quote. The
Speaker 1: old girl said to me, watch out. You better watch
Speaker 1: this one or she'll fucking kill you. Stir her up
Speaker 1: the wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked.
Speaker 1: Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll fucking
Speaker 1: kill you. And that was her mother talking. She told
Speaker 1: me she's got something loose, she's got a screw loose somewhere.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm surprised that you didn't run for
Speaker 2: the goddamn hills.
Speaker 1: No shit.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine if, like you're the person you're marrying
Speaker 2: their parents said that to you right before you're about
Speaker 2: to like walk down the aisle, would you not question
Speaker 2: like what you're doing?
Speaker 1: I mean maybe for sure, but I mean, like David
Speaker 1: kind of brushes off. I'm sure he's heard stories of
Speaker 1: Catherine's mother, Catherine growing up, the shit she said to her,
Speaker 1: how she was treated.
Speaker 2: So she probably He probably just thought she was crazy
Speaker 2: or kind of had a screw loose or whatever she
Speaker 2: said about Catherine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's thinking, yeah, Catherine's a crazy one. Sure,
Speaker 1: Like you know, he's probably thinking, Barbara, you're the one
Speaker 1: who's got a screw loose.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he didn't. He didn't listen to her.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: He didn't take her advice.
Speaker 2: That's terrifying though, gosh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: So he didn't take the words to heart. They walked
Speaker 1: down the aisle and they said the I dos, and
Speaker 1: this was supposed to be the happiest day of their life.
Speaker 1: But things would take a very dark turn that very
Speaker 1: same night.
Speaker 2: Are you about to end this episode?
Speaker 1: No? Not yet?
Speaker 2: Okay. I was like, you better not not yet. I
Speaker 2: was already glaring at you.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we good. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Next paragraph.
Speaker 1: David would wake up after falling asleep on their wedding
Speaker 1: night with Catherine straddling him and her hands wrapped around
Speaker 1: his throats, attempting to strangle him on.
Speaker 2: Their fucking wedding night, on.
Speaker 1: Their fucking wedding night. What the actual Yeah? Okay, so
Speaker 1: it's not exactly clear how David managed to wrestle himself free,
Speaker 1: but luckily for him, he was able to save himself
Speaker 1: for the situation and he made it through this assault,
Speaker 1: this attack. But Catherine would tell him she was furious
Speaker 1: with him because they only had sex three times that night.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yes, okay, and because that's honestly where I
Speaker 2: thought you were going. I was like, oh, there's like
Speaker 2: she's straddling him. Okay, wow, you're really telling less about
Speaker 2: their wedding night. Eh.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I am, I very much, so am.
Speaker 2: But I thought in like a good way, Like I
Speaker 2: thought it was a good way at first, but okay,
Speaker 2: three she was upset.
Speaker 1: She was upset it was only three times, and she's
Speaker 1: she was pissed. Do you know why? Because apparently her
Speaker 1: mom was so vocal about her sex life and her
Speaker 1: experiences that Catherine knew her parents had sex five times
Speaker 1: on the night that she got married, so Catherine assumed
Speaker 1: they needed to do the same thing, thinking that was
Speaker 1: just normal and what was expected.
Speaker 2: Geez. Yeah, Oh, I don't even know what to say.
Speaker 2: That's just like.
Speaker 1: A lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, and her like her mum was probably just
Speaker 2: like spelling shit.
Speaker 1: Probably she's probably just bullshitting.
Speaker 2: But exaggerating, like being Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, if her husband did have a libido to sexually
Speaker 1: assault her up to ten times a day, that might
Speaker 1: not be surprising, I guess, But I mean that is
Speaker 1: a lot though, Like that is a lot, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine waking up and someone just pissed because
Speaker 2: you only had sex with them three times that night?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I think I would actually probably not
Speaker 2: be able to contain myself my laughter there.
Speaker 1: If they're strangling you, maybe not.
Speaker 2: Oh, and then I'd try to probably look into an
Speaker 2: annulment of sort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, needless to say, this was
Speaker 1: quite the wedding night for these two, and basically this
Speaker 1: night would paint the way for what their marriage would
Speaker 1: look like in the coming years, with violence and with
Speaker 1: fits of rage. So by the age of twenty though,
Speaker 1: Catherine would now be pregnant and the couple would be
Speaker 1: expecting their first child. So, on one occasion during her pregnancy,
Speaker 1: Catherine decided to take all of her husband's close and
Speaker 1: his shoes, throw them into a pile, and light them
Speaker 1: on fire. Okay, why Well, during this commotion, she would
Speaker 1: then pick up a frying pen turn it on her husband.
Speaker 1: She raised it in the air and struck him hard
Speaker 1: on the back of the head.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: So she did all this because she suspected him of
Speaker 1: not being loyal in the relationship.
Speaker 2: Ok well, that's kind of fair.
Speaker 1: I mean, you shouldn't light his clothes on fire and
Speaker 1: strike him on the backhead with a fire frying pan, But.
Speaker 2: You would have to be certain.
Speaker 1: Even if you're certain, you shouldn't.
Speaker 2: Do that, right, Yeah, you shouldn't do that.
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, carry on, whoa gotcha? Never cheat on Nicole?
Speaker 1: Holy shit. Anyways, she did all this because she expected
Speaker 1: him of cheating, basically because he had returned home late
Speaker 1: one evening from a game of from a dark tournament
Speaker 1: where he had made it into the finals. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's out there playing darts. He's making it into deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper in tournaments. He's taken longer longer, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, in later years, David did admit to actually cheating
Speaker 1: on his wife and her suspicions were true.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Ye okay, So a friend of David's would actually talk
Speaker 1: about this in an interview about how David confided in this,
Speaker 1: basically saying, yeah, he was young, he was dumb, he
Speaker 1: was doing shit he shouldn't have been doing. But it
Speaker 1: was also he was not happy at home.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, like it was almost probably he never
Speaker 2: knew what the hell he was going home to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was just violence and again like she would
Speaker 1: be happy then all of a sudden something would change
Speaker 1: and she would snap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she could even be making up shit two
Speaker 2: in her head right, exactly full.
Speaker 1: So regardless though, after being struck with a frying pan
Speaker 1: in the back of the head, David was days and
Speaker 1: in fear of his life, so he ran outside to
Speaker 1: the neighbor's house, where he would collapse in their home.
Speaker 1: Cops were called, and via Catherine's convincing, he didn't press
Speaker 1: any charges, but he did get taken to the hospital
Speaker 1: where he was treated for a severe skull fracture. Wow,
Speaker 1: she struck him that hard.
Speaker 2: That's pretty hard, yes, huh.
Speaker 1: On May eleventh, nineteen seventy six, Catherine would give birth
Speaker 1: to their daughter, daughter Melissa Anne. The same month, May
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy six, David would leave Catherine for another woman.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yes, and the two would move to Queensland.
Speaker 1: So soon after, Catherine would commit an absolutely atrocious crime,
Speaker 1: and I mean atrocious one that even criminals will try
Speaker 1: to kill you for when you're in prison. She attempted
Speaker 1: to kill her own newborn daughter.
Speaker 2: In spite of him leaving. Hey, ess basically or maybe not.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get into this here.
Speaker 2: Oh man.
Speaker 1: So Catherine was seen walking down the street with her
Speaker 1: daughter in the stroller and reportedly violently swerving it. And
Speaker 1: I do want to say violently is the word used
Speaker 1: to describe this violently swerving it from side to side.
Speaker 1: She was screaming and yelling in fits of rage as
Speaker 1: she walked with the stroller. Onlookers were deathly afraid that
Speaker 1: she was actually to push the stroller into oncoming traffic. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: before anything like that happened, she was taken into custody.
Speaker 1: And admitted into Saint Elmo's Hospital, where she was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with postnatal depression.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 1: She was being treated for depression and she spent several
Speaker 1: weeks recovering before being released. Upon her release, however, she
Speaker 1: took her now two month old daughter to the nearby
Speaker 1: railway tracks and placed her daughter on the railway line
Speaker 1: where a train was due to come soon, and she
Speaker 1: left her there.
Speaker 2: Oh my fuck, seriously, yes, why? Holy shit?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, So, thankfully, unbeknownst to Catherine, a local homeless
Speaker 1: man was in the area, a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Old Ted, and he saw this, and he walked
Speaker 1: up and found oun Melissa laying on the track. Yeah,
Speaker 1: laying on the track.
Speaker 2: Jeez.
Speaker 1: So Melissa was thankfully saved, and only by a few minutes.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, because it was not long after the
Speaker 1: train came streaming, screaming down the tracks. If it wasn't
Speaker 1: for Old Ted, she would know Old Ted have survived.
Speaker 2: And please tell me that she never went back with
Speaker 2: her mom. Okay she did. Wow, Holy shit.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to hold onto this here.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Old Ted reported the incident to authorities, and it didn't
Speaker 1: take long for them to identify little Melissa because Melissa's mom, Catherine,
Speaker 1: had gone into town, stolen an axe out of someone's backyard,
Speaker 1: and was wielding it around her head, threatening to kill people. Understandably,
Speaker 1: she was quickly arrested and readmitted into Saint Elmo's Hospital.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's actually amazing that she got released.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What's even more amazing is she was released again
Speaker 1: that very same day.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Okay, that is actually yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because she miraculously recovered and signed herself out.
Speaker 2: There's no way she should have been in there for
Speaker 2: a while, like getting some help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, most definitely. So in hindsight, it's clear to us
Speaker 1: that Catherine is not fit to, i mean, leave the hospital.
Speaker 1: But one way or another, she managed to fool the doctors.
Speaker 1: So once she was out, she continued her wrath, fueled
Speaker 1: primarily by anger and jealousy of her husband leaving her
Speaker 1: for another woman. Her focus was on David. She woned revenge,
Speaker 1: and she was willing to go to extreme lengths to
Speaker 1: get it.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just have to say two things. First of all,
Speaker 2: it just popped in my head. I'm surprised that David
Speaker 2: didn't take Melissa, that he like left her with the
Speaker 2: mom you know. Yeah, and then second of all, but
Speaker 2: psychopaths are like very charming, usually write and persuasive, So
Speaker 2: that's probably how she might have been when she was
Speaker 2: in the hospital. Yeah, potentially, right, like easy to just
Speaker 2: talk her way out of shit and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, less than twenty four hours after she signed
Speaker 1: herself out of the hospital, Catherine's violent actions would continue.
Speaker 1: She made her way over to a neighbor's house, asking
Speaker 1: them for help. She told them that her daughter, Melissa
Speaker 1: was sick and she needed someone to drive them to
Speaker 1: the hospital together so she can be looked at. So
Speaker 1: the neighbor agreed, Catherine walked back over to their house.
Speaker 1: The neighbors got their things hopped into their car, and
Speaker 1: then drove over to Catherine's house to pick the two
Speaker 1: of them up. When they went inside, however, to assist Katherine,
Speaker 1: they were not met with her and her sick daughter. Instead,
Speaker 1: they were met with Katherine wielding one of her butcher knives.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: Katherine chased them and even slashed a large cut across
Speaker 1: the woman's face, and she threatened to kill them if
Speaker 1: they didn't do what she said. She wanted them to
Speaker 1: drive her to David's mother's house.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Her intentions were if she couldn't have David, then David
Speaker 1: couldn't have his mother.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, Oh sorry, I totally misheard that wanted
Speaker 2: to go to David's mom's house. Not David's house. Yes, okay, sorry.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I think in my brain just was
Speaker 2: like going to David's house. No, David's mom.
Speaker 1: She wanted them to drive to David's mother's house so
Speaker 1: she could kill David's mom.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And that's where we're going to end this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I felt like it was coming to
Speaker 2: an end. Heerh wow. Okay, okay, just okay, I mean
Speaker 2: this one is what is quite a lot here? Yeah
Speaker 2: you think, yeah, like for the next week now, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna be like in deep thought over this. This person.
Speaker 1: Did I break you? Is your brain broken right now?
Speaker 2: A little bit? Actually, I'm processing so much shit right
Speaker 2: now that I my little innocent brain would never have
Speaker 2: thought could be. So just bear with me.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll bear with you. I got it.
Speaker 2: I am very surprised. Sometimes that shit still stocks me
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: I can tell. Do you feel like a drink now?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 1: Maybe this is an absolutely wild case. Researching it has
Speaker 1: been very interesting, to say the least. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: glad I'm doing a deeper dive on this one.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I honestly find it not easier, but like because
Speaker 2: you're more in control when you're researching it, almost like
Speaker 2: doesn't affect me as much as like me just like
Speaker 2: stet like sitting here and standing here whatever listening. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough, No, because and then you're literally having to
Speaker 2: process all the shit in like such a small period
Speaker 2: of time.
Speaker 1: And well, researching it you can you can absorb it
Speaker 1: and read it at your own pace. Yeah, right, So
Speaker 1: we take the time we research it. We stand the
Speaker 1: same topic for a little while, we read several articles
Speaker 1: about the same thing, we write it out ourselves, and
Speaker 1: then that's a lot of time to, like you say,
Speaker 1: process it before you move on to the next piece
Speaker 1: of information. Yeah, this it's just right across your face.
Speaker 2: A slap in the face.
Speaker 1: Yeah that was a very low, like low sounding clap,
Speaker 1: her slap.
Speaker 2: But it's also amazing that I don't I have never
Speaker 2: heard of her.
Speaker 1: You've never heard of her?
Speaker 2: No, really no, which is bizarre.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have, you just don't recognize the case
Speaker 1: yet because we're still her early years.
Speaker 2: It's true. Oh gosh, Lord knows what she's going to
Speaker 2: get up to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ben knows it's not cool. I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: of people out there listening to this episode also know
Speaker 1: it's not cool. It's a lot so heads up on that.
Speaker 1: But well, we'll buckle up and we'll talk all about
Speaker 1: it next week, next Tuesday, next Tuesday. Yeah, So should
Speaker 1: we maybe do a post show today from Patreon talk
Speaker 1: about this, maybe unfold some of your emotions you're dealing
Speaker 1: with right now.
Speaker 2: I don't even know, let's do it. I might just
Speaker 2: be like, still stunned.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a quick little post show. If you're
Speaker 1: on Patreon or wanting to sign up, the link is
Speaker 1: down below. You can go ahead and sign up. We
Speaker 1: appreciate it. It really supports the show. If not, that's totally
Speaker 1: cool too. But we have all our links down there, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
Speaker 1: which we are actually actively vlogging on now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's we never even mentioned that yet that there's
Speaker 2: a new new blog up. Yeah, I have video up.
Speaker 2: That's cool.
Speaker 1: So link is down below, go check it out. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be doing a lot more vlogs coming up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the good stuff is down there, including also the
Speaker 1: link to go listen to our podcast Fearful.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of goodies down there, look at so.
Speaker 1: Go check it out. In the meantime though, like I said,
Speaker 1: we'll see you next week or maybe we'll see you
Speaker 1: on Patreon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so entil Part two, Stay wicked.