WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>What does evil look like? Do you think you could

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<v Speaker 1>identify it if you were looking right at it? And

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<v Speaker 1>even if you could, do you think you could explain it?

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<v Speaker 1>Could you explain what makes someone evil? Were they born

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<v Speaker 1>with it? Or were they made evil? Even if you

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<v Speaker 1>knew the answer to all these questions and you could

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<v Speaker 1>identify evil in a heartbeat, what would you do about it? Then?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think you could stop it? Catherine Knight is

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<v Speaker 1>described as being pure evil. Her actions were malicious and brutal,

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<v Speaker 1>even against those closest to her. This is the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Catherine Knight. My name's Ben and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a

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<v Speaker 2>true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Warning the following podcast material more mature audience listener. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you mean you don't have anything? That's right there?

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<v Speaker 1>What's that?

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<v Speaker 2>It's empty?

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<v Speaker 1>It's empty.

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<v Speaker 2>I drank a lead of water today.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so you have a water bottle with you but

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<v Speaker 1>nothing to drink?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? Well? Yeah, I paulish it off while you were

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<v Speaker 2>doing your thing getting ready.

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<v Speaker 1>The intro gotcha, So you have no.

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<v Speaker 2>Today and you don't either.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got water because well I made Margarita's for dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Okay, that's why I don't feel like having any.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, are we pre drank?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's so funny here. I'm like, oh, I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>had a drink today, and I forgot that you had

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<v Speaker 2>a drink today.

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<v Speaker 1>You had a big old mar garita. It was fantastic,

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<v Speaker 1>it was delicious. Yeah. So yeah, we're back from vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>We had a fantastic time. Stayed in maybe a haunted hotel,

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<v Speaker 1>in a haunted house, who knows, only because they were

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<v Speaker 1>super old. That's why I have suspicions. But there was

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<v Speaker 1>no ghost to be found.

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<v Speaker 2>Just everything everywhere we stay now we think is haunted.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently I kind of just I don't know. They were.

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<v Speaker 1>They had the vibe, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>But then the actual place that was haunted was the

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<v Speaker 2>new built maybe who knows. Maybe that we stated.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was.

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<v Speaker 2>You never know.

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<v Speaker 1>Dun, dun, dun. Yeah, but it's good to be home.

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<v Speaker 1>It is good to be on track, get our things together.

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<v Speaker 2>It was June was very busy, so I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>July it's kind of just take a deep breath.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, although we still got shit going on,

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<v Speaker 1>like yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>We always we always have shit going on, but not

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<v Speaker 2>quite as much shit, No one.

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<v Speaker 1>Thing that's really cool though, is we are headed down

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<v Speaker 1>to a local brewery on Wednesday to do a local

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<v Speaker 1>true crime trivia night, which.

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<v Speaker 2>Is all awesome and it sold out, like so cool, like.

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<v Speaker 1>That sold out. And we've been prepping for this for

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<v Speaker 1>a while. So I got some epic and I mean

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<v Speaker 1>epic true crime trivia questions which will probably like doing

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<v Speaker 1>reels and shorts and stuff. Yeah, so you guys will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do that as well and take part.

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<v Speaker 2>And none of them, all of them are easy questions. No,

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<v Speaker 2>got to bring your a game to this.

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<v Speaker 1>There are going to be some of them that we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to put up there on for you guys as well,

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<v Speaker 1>on like reels, shorts or whatever. I do not expect

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<v Speaker 1>you guys to get it, because they are a little

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<v Speaker 1>more tailored to our local area. So we will put

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<v Speaker 1>those ones up there still because who knows some of

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<v Speaker 1>you might actually still know it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't only think of one.

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<v Speaker 1>Well the one in particular, okay, but there was, uh

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<v Speaker 1>the other one with the highway.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no hints here know No, I'm not getting okay, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna I'm shutting you down here that's too.

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<v Speaker 1>Much saying highway. Yeah, okay, fair, fair.

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<v Speaker 2>We got to keep this a secret because some of

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<v Speaker 2>those people that are there might be listening to.

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<v Speaker 1>That that's true episode. Well, if they listen to this

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<v Speaker 1>episode before the trivia night and they get that clue

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<v Speaker 1>and do their homework on it in the meantime, props

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<v Speaker 1>to them for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, like that's a big old hint.

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<v Speaker 1>Not really for one question. Yeah, not really, because that

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<v Speaker 1>question can go a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true, that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>But we are also going to be streaming it over

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<v Speaker 1>on our Patreon live as well. Yeah, so that's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be awesome. It's gonna be accessed accessible for anyone over

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<v Speaker 1>a Patreon to join live for the whole event.

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<v Speaker 2>And speaking of Patreon, got some to thank, don't we.

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<v Speaker 1>We do. So these individuals signed up for a Patreon

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<v Speaker 1>this week and they're going to have that behind the

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<v Speaker 1>scenes access, the exclusive content and access to the live

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<v Speaker 1>stream on Wednesday for the trivia. So the people who

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<v Speaker 1>joined we have Juno, Poppy, Dina Costa, Corey Stefan, Jessica Beer,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jessica Nice.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good list of names right there, it is.

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<v Speaker 1>They all get that awesome access and there's some pretty

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<v Speaker 1>wicked people right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool, thank you, that's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're ready to dive into today's case.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm actually a little bit worried because

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<v Speaker 2>you were some things were coming out of the office

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<v Speaker 2>today when you were like researching.

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<v Speaker 1>What was I doing. I didn't tell you anything.

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<v Speaker 2>You didn't but you were just like, whoa or shit

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<v Speaker 2>or whoa? That's a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is a brutal case. This is the as

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<v Speaker 1>I already mentioned, the case of Catherine Knight, Catherine Mary Knight,

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<v Speaker 1>be more specific. Okay, we've had many requests to cover her.

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<v Speaker 1>She's been on my list to cover for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's it's just time to do it. And there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of details within this on the build up

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<v Speaker 1>side that I was really like, holy shit, didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>about that. Didn't know about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Like you, Oh, okay, so you're about to blow our monds.

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<v Speaker 1>I am about to blow your minds okay, And uh,

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<v Speaker 1>just a heads up for you guys. This is a

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<v Speaker 1>two parter.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, you're kind Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't sure if I should tell you guys, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be in the title anyways, it'll say part

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<v Speaker 1>one unless I really want it to be mean and

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<v Speaker 1>just posted it.

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<v Speaker 2>You did do that one time, I did.

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<v Speaker 1>And then like next week change it to say part one,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, which that's really mean. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>And likes to keep you guys on your toes.

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<v Speaker 1>I do, but I also, like, I got a soft

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<v Speaker 1>spot for you, so I kind of want to, like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, keep you in the know as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So so you just decided to listen to your

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<v Speaker 2>little angel today, not.

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<v Speaker 1>The angel, not the devil. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get on with the story. Ready for it? I'm ready, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine Mary Knight committed such horrific crimes that she is

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<v Speaker 1>considered the most brutal female murderer in Australian history, if

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<v Speaker 1>not the most still, even if you disregard gender.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But the thing is, why is it important to

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<v Speaker 1>include gender in that prolific most serial killer person whatever?

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<v Speaker 1>Why is gender included in this case? Well? I want

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<v Speaker 1>to make a big note of this because it is

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<v Speaker 1>important that research. It's important because Reacher and sorry stumbling

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<v Speaker 1>here right out of the gate, it's important because Reacher

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<v Speaker 1>researchers if I can get that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a hard work for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Today, researchers show that men are three to five times

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<v Speaker 1>more likely to become psychopaths than women.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, yes, Oh I didn't know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So Catherine being a psychopath is considered a very

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<v Speaker 1>rare individual.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I'm searious of why that is.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so she is very rare because she is a

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<v Speaker 1>cold blooded psychopath.

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<v Speaker 2>A female psychopathy. Okay, wow, that's that's a that's getting

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<v Speaker 2>us ready here first.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So starting off, we're going to go back into

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine's past. We're going to start with her growing up

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of get to know who she was. So

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine was born on October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty five,

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<v Speaker 1>in Tenorfield, New South Wales, Australia. Now Tennerfield is a

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<v Speaker 1>relatively small community today, boasting a population number of around

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<v Speaker 1>four thousand residents. So when Catherine was born, I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>it would have been much smaller at the time. Even now,

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<v Speaker 1>the area was kind of like a bunch of small communities,

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<v Speaker 1>like side to side, like you go to one to

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<v Speaker 1>the next, to the next to the next sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like they're not really all that far apart.

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<v Speaker 1>But they're all just a bunch of small communities, towns, cities,

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, her mother, Barbara, Barbara Rogan, had previously been married

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<v Speaker 1>to another man by the name of Jack Rogan, where

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<v Speaker 1>she instead lived in the town of Aberdeen in New

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<v Speaker 1>South Wales in Hunter Valley. Now together they would conceive

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<v Speaker 1>four sons in two total, but Barbara would eventually run

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<v Speaker 1>off with another man by the name of Ken Knight.

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<v Speaker 1>So Ken was a co worker and a friend of Jack,

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<v Speaker 1>but that didn't work to Ken or Barbara.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Yes, that's a little bit saucy, hey, just a.

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<v Speaker 1>Little bit, I mean even more so because Jack was

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<v Speaker 1>apparently a supervisor at the place, so she went running

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<v Speaker 1>off with one of his workers.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like employees or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely don't love that, but.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, I don't think anyone really would.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean all that mattered to them was

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<v Speaker 1>each other and their new life. But they were going

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<v Speaker 1>to start together, and just like you're sitting here, oh WHOA,

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of the people in small town thought the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So they were the talk of the town.

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<v Speaker 1>They were the talk of the town. It was a great,

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<v Speaker 1>big scandal. It was sweeping across Everyone was talking about it, whispering,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was a a lot of local backlash that

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<v Speaker 1>hit them hard. There were scowls, cold shoulders, and perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>even I'm just saying this because it's my assumption, perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>even threats going along with it. So Barbara and Ken

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<v Speaker 1>were eventually forced to move because of their relationship. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>initially they moved to a town called Marie, and Barbara

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<v Speaker 1>had to leave her four sons behind. Her two eldest

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<v Speaker 1>boys continued to live with their father, Jack, while the

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<v Speaker 1>other two younger sons were sent off to live with

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<v Speaker 1>their aunt in the big city of Sydney, Australia. Okay, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>hold on, I messed up my notes here? What did

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<v Speaker 1>I do? That's okay, Okay, there we go.

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<v Speaker 2>And how do we know why she couldn't take the sons.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not too sure. I don't know if she wanted to,

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<v Speaker 1>or if the father wouldn't let them.

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<v Speaker 2>Or write, Yeah, the father might have been like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not taking that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's kind of more so the case. I

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<v Speaker 1>think she just kind of left them and run off,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, the father was like, fuck you, I'm keeping

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<v Speaker 1>the kids sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, jeez, well she just broke his heart.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm sure, And especially with a whole town kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like scolding you, I don't think it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be very easy to just like screw you. I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to run away with my new man and take the kids, right. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I think the town was kind of on his

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<v Speaker 1>side and he was easily able to just keep the

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<v Speaker 1>kids right. The two lovebirds, though, were now out of

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<v Speaker 1>town and they were on their own, and they were

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<v Speaker 1>child free. It was time for them to have a

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<v Speaker 1>family of their own, so together they would have a

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<v Speaker 1>total of four children as well. Oh wow, two boys

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<v Speaker 1>and a set of twin girls, the twin girls being

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<v Speaker 1>born in nineteen fifty five, one of which which was

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine Knight.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh she was a twin, she was.

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<v Speaker 1>And Catherine was delivered just half an hour after her

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<v Speaker 1>sister Joy. So Barbara would eventually see more children in

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<v Speaker 1>her life, though now in a different way than you're

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<v Speaker 1>probably initially thinking. I want to clarify that when I

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<v Speaker 1>was writing this, I'm like, I need to snuff that

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<v Speaker 1>fire immediately, she didn't have more kids. It would be

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty nine when Catherine was four years old, her mother,

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<v Speaker 1>Barbara's ex husband, Jack, Yeah, passed away.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, poor Jack.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the two sons that were living with Jack

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<v Speaker 1>would then move in with Barbara Ken and their family. Okay, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so they would then have a household filled with six children.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of children, it is. It's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of children to look after and to actually maintain a

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<v Speaker 1>household with that many mouths to feed, yeah, is a

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<v Speaker 1>lot to do.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be very expensive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So when they did move in, though, the only

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<v Speaker 1>problem was these two boys had no idea the type

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<v Speaker 1>of family they were about to move in with. The

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<v Speaker 1>household was extremely abusive and disfunctional.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was not how their household was prior

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<v Speaker 2>to by the sounds of it, as.

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<v Speaker 1>Far as I know, it was not, but I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know the history on how Jack had treated

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<v Speaker 1>the children.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And because of this, though, because of this terrible household atmosphere, understandably,

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine was not really a confident girl at a young age,

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<v Speaker 1>and she did not have many friends either. It was

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<v Speaker 1>not easy for her to make friends, and her twin

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<v Speaker 1>sister was pretty well one of the only people she

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<v Speaker 1>really seemed to be close with, so because of how

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<v Speaker 1>she was being raised, though she did have an extremely

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<v Speaker 1>terrible temper, So perhaps she got this directly from her

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<v Speaker 1>father Ken, because Ken was a ruthless man and a

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<v Speaker 1>violent alcoholic.

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<v Speaker 2>Was her mom also abusive? Am I allowed to ask that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yet? We'll get there.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll get there.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to touch on Ken here and then we'll

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<v Speaker 1>move on.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's just like, I'm already getting a little pissy

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<v Speaker 2>because this is just like setting up a psychopath. Is

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<v Speaker 2>that was that what you called her psychopath? Yep, it's

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<v Speaker 2>litteral because I mean, nine times out of ten their

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<v Speaker 2>child is shitty.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Right, But that begs a question that I asked

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<v Speaker 1>in the very beginning, one of the many questions, actually,

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00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:14.240
<v Speaker 1>can a psychopath be made? Or are they born? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. Yeah,

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00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.519
<v Speaker 2>I think they could be made. I do. Actually, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's my thought.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well we'll talk about this one and it might

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00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.879
<v Speaker 1>swade some people one way or the other. Okay, So

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00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 1>what Ken did was pretty brutal. Whatever he said goes.

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00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.360
<v Speaker 1>He ruled the rousse sort of thing. He was a

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00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.759
<v Speaker 1>man who wouldn't shy away from striking and assaulting both

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<v Speaker 1>his kids and his wife.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, it is also reported that he would often sexually

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00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>assault and rape Barbara multiple times a day, up to

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00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:51.919
<v Speaker 1>ten times a day.

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00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.279
<v Speaker 2>Apparently. Shit.

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00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that alone is an absolutely horrific thing to go

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00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.799
<v Speaker 1>through one. It's let alone many times a day, day

304
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:07.279
<v Speaker 1>in day out, especially when it's by an alleged quote

305
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:08.039
<v Speaker 1>loved one.

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00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's really disturbing.

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00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.879
<v Speaker 1>That is fucked up, is what that is. Super fucked

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00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Ken wasn't the only monster in the home, though you

309
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.840
<v Speaker 1>were asking about Barbara, well, she was reportedly no better,

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<v Speaker 1>no no. For context, in Catherine's adolescent years, she confided

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00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.399
<v Speaker 1>in her mother about a boyfriend, reportedly a boyfriend that

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00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted to do a sexual act or favor that Catherine

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00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:40.000
<v Speaker 1>wasn't quite ready for comfortable with at the time, and

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00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.879
<v Speaker 1>upon hearing this, Catherine's mother, Barbara simply told her, quote,

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00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.120
<v Speaker 1>put up with it and stop complaining.

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00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.679
<v Speaker 2>That was the advice that she gave her daughter.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the advice she gave her daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, I like to play devil's advocate here,

320
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.440
<v Speaker 1>so I'm gonna do that for a moment. Okay, put

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00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.480
<v Speaker 1>this into content text here.

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00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, we're all processing this.

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00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that might just be how she was dealing with

324
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.759
<v Speaker 1>her sexual abuse at home. So maybe that's the only

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00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.759
<v Speaker 1>real advice she could she had to give it.

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00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:16.720
<v Speaker 2>They could muster m yeah, but generally, like you kind

327
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.759
<v Speaker 2>of want better for your kids, that's true, So then

328
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you would think you would want to change it so

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00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>that they're not having like the same lifestyle as you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so wow, it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm

331
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<v Speaker 1>not backing her up here.

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00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but no, I get what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.879
<v Speaker 1>Regardless though, whether it was her intentions that way or not,

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00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.519
<v Speaker 1>Barbara seemed to give out abuse in the home basically

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00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.759
<v Speaker 1>just as much as she was receiving it. She would

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00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.879
<v Speaker 1>assault her husband, she would assault her children, both without hesitation.

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00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, that's just I'm sorry, I'm still in this.

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00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:53.559
<v Speaker 2>That's just the most terrible advice.

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00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is like, just shut up and put up

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00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.759
<v Speaker 1>with it. Stop complaining. Are you fucking kidding me?

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00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's like your mom yeahow.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's supposed to be someone that you can trust

345
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:08.559
<v Speaker 1>and rely on. Yeah, And she's like, eh, shut up,

346
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.440
<v Speaker 1>just let him do what he wants. Oh okay, yeah, no,

347
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.839
<v Speaker 1>fucking thanks No. At times when at a time, sorry,

348
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:20.279
<v Speaker 1>when Catherine was still very young. I'm so kind of

349
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.920
<v Speaker 1>back from when that advice occurred. It just it was

350
00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:25.839
<v Speaker 1>a good time to actually talk about that. So backing up,

351
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.920
<v Speaker 1>when she was still very young, Barbara would actually describe

352
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.400
<v Speaker 1>very intimate and graphic details of her sex life and

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00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.519
<v Speaker 1>personal sex life with of course her.

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00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Husband, like describe it what to her kids?

355
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she would describe it to Catherine. She would tell

356
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:49.079
<v Speaker 1>her all about these very vivid details. She would spare

357
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.440
<v Speaker 1>no expense, and she would continue to talk about it,

358
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.519
<v Speaker 1>and she would tell her about her hate for her

359
00:17:54.599 --> 00:18:00.720
<v Speaker 1>husband and how she absolutely despises men. Whoa, and this

360
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.440
<v Speaker 1>is a very young child. She is doing this too.

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00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.440
<v Speaker 2>This is like I'm like kind of sweating here. This

362
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.279
<v Speaker 2>is really like uncomfortable. Yeah, this is uncomfortable. Shit.

363
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, now you know why I was having those

364
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.960
<v Speaker 1>reactions in the office.

365
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.480
<v Speaker 2>My gosh. Okay.

366
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.200
<v Speaker 1>All the details of what occurred inside the broken home

367
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.960
<v Speaker 1>will never really be known because by the sounds of it,

368
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:29.799
<v Speaker 1>a lot happened in those walls, and some claims are contested,

369
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.839
<v Speaker 1>but many details have come forward and are corroborated by

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00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.640
<v Speaker 1>some of the siblings who lived in the home as well.

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00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Well. Remember how at one point I was like, poor Jack. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean poor Jack because he died. But maybe he

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<v Speaker 2>actually like dodged a bullet by having her leave.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe, but she's horrid, but unfortunately he left his children.

375
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<v Speaker 2>Oh, and then had to go back to her. Oh,

376
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.599
<v Speaker 2>I wonder why they couldn't go to that other family member.

377
00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Come on, yeah, brutal.

378
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Where am I at here?

379
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.759
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I'm making you get distracted here by it.

380
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, it's all good. I'm actually like looking at

381
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:08.519
<v Speaker 1>the notes of my phone here, and I usually don't,

382
00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.039
<v Speaker 1>so I'm like kind of out of my element looking

383
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 1>at these notes. Yeah, oh okay, here, I got it.

384
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.519
<v Speaker 1>So one detail that Catherine would speak on about some

385
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of the stuff that she endured as a young child,

386
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.720
<v Speaker 1>and is generally accepted by psychiatrists, is the fact that

387
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:29.119
<v Speaker 1>she was sexually assaulted and abused by many of her

388
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:29.960
<v Speaker 1>family members.

389
00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Many of her family members, yes.

390
00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Though thankfully at least not at the hand of her father.

391
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:42.359
<v Speaker 1>The smallest of silver linings, but at least that's there geez.

392
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.799
<v Speaker 1>So okay, Yeah, it's not easy for anyone to live

393
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.880
<v Speaker 1>in a house like that, let alone like a child

394
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.519
<v Speaker 1>growing up in that environment. I can't begin to fathom

395
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:55.559
<v Speaker 1>what that life would have been like.

396
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.039
<v Speaker 2>And it's unfortunate because it's like a reality for.

397
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Some people, reality for a lot of people.

398
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeafe like, which is beyond sad.

399
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean beyond set. Like I don't know, it

400
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.000
<v Speaker 1>feels like that's not a heavy enough word to say,

401
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.079
<v Speaker 1>but that's that's that nails it though. It is beyond sad.

402
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, Like it's like you're helpless, Like it's you

403
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.559
<v Speaker 2>wish that you could help all of the people out

404
00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>there and stuff, but she just can't. Really.

405
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're either helpless or you're hopeless. And that is

406
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:32.440
<v Speaker 1>so sad to say.

407
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, then we're real grim here today.

408
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah apparently. Wow. Okay. Anyways, as I already mentioned, though,

409
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Catherine didn't have many many friends, right okay, and she

410
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.039
<v Speaker 1>didn't make them very easily either. So Aside from her sister,

411
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:52.440
<v Speaker 1>she was also rather close with her uncle Oscar. But however,

412
00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.079
<v Speaker 1>it would hit her hard when he ended his own

413
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.640
<v Speaker 1>life in nineteen sixty nine when Catherine was just thirteen

414
00:20:58.759 --> 00:20:59.359
<v Speaker 1>years old.

415
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.839
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was going to go a different way,

416
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:03.039
<v Speaker 2>but Okay, no.

417
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:06.680
<v Speaker 1>No, thankfully, yeah yeah. So to this day, though, however,

418
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Catherine continues to claim that his ghost still visits her

419
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.279
<v Speaker 1>at times.

420
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh really yes.

421
00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:17.039
<v Speaker 1>So the same year he passed away, the family would

422
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.880
<v Speaker 1>move to another small town called Aberdeen. Here is where

423
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:26.599
<v Speaker 1>Catherine began attending high school. Okay, so her mannerisms will

424
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.039
<v Speaker 1>continue here as she was, you know, an outcast and

425
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:34.039
<v Speaker 1>a loner. Though because of her situation growing up, Catherine

426
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.920
<v Speaker 1>seemed to develop much of a different much different than

427
00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.559
<v Speaker 1>normal children would have, and she would have grown up

428
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.759
<v Speaker 1>in constant fear for her physical and physical wellbeing and

429
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the potential sexual abuse. And because of such an extreme atmosphere,

430
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.599
<v Speaker 1>psychologists believed she would have begun to basically disassociate from

431
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the world around her. Basically like any sort of overwhelming

432
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.799
<v Speaker 1>times when she didn't know how to deal with things

433
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.559
<v Speaker 1>or cope, she would just go into this disassociation mode.

434
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes sense.

435
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.599
<v Speaker 1>And this would basically just yeah, be here coping mechanism,

436
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.559
<v Speaker 1>and in turn, it left her developing her extreme temper

437
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.440
<v Speaker 1>and lack of love because at those overwhelming times she

438
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:12.799
<v Speaker 1>would just disassociate.

439
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Huh what I imagine She also wasn't really ever shown

440
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.000
<v Speaker 2>love either.

441
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:18.839
<v Speaker 1>No, I can't imagine so much.

442
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.519
<v Speaker 2>No, it was a loving household of any in any way.

443
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and because of all this personality sort of stuff

444
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>that was going on with her when she was in

445
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 1>high school, basically it would turn and make her become

446
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:33.759
<v Speaker 1>into a bully in school.

447
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh really, Yes, So.

448
00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Reportedly she seemed to target boys more than any other

449
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.160
<v Speaker 1>though she really didn't seem to discriminate. It was just

450
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of more her general target whether she flowed to

451
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.400
<v Speaker 1>so she would get angry over benign things, and it

452
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.279
<v Speaker 1>seemed like she would just assault at least one boy

453
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 1>per day at her school per day.

454
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.839
<v Speaker 2>But that makes sense because of how her mom had

455
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>like the hatred of yeah and your boys or whatever. Right.

456
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Definitely, it seemed like she just hated everybody, but she

457
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 1>specifically hated boys. It seemed like, Okay, a lot of

458
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>times she was actually trying to assault them with any

459
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.720
<v Speaker 1>sort of makeshift weapons she could find, like maybe a

460
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:17.759
<v Speaker 1>book in the classroom or something like that. She would

461
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.039
<v Speaker 1>just like take something and like throw it at them,

462
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.759
<v Speaker 1>hit them whatever she could. A classmate of hers would

463
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 1>actually report at a time when Catherine and her twin

464
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>sister joy were arguing over a bike, so like, whose

465
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.519
<v Speaker 1>turn is it to ride the bike home? Okay, So

466
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.000
<v Speaker 1>generally when you think of two like thirteen fourteen year

467
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.079
<v Speaker 1>old girls arguing over something, but what do you see

468
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.960
<v Speaker 1>them doing as far as an argument? How far do

469
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.279
<v Speaker 1>you think this would go? Generally speaking?

470
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Not there, man, Well, not these two. I don't know.

471
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I feel like there'd probably be like some tears and

472
00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:57.960
<v Speaker 2>some yelling and someone storming off. Yeah, fair enough, it's

473
00:23:58.039 --> 00:23:59.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of how I think it would go.

474
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 1>Maybe normal, maybe a push or a shove something like that.

475
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if I would see that necessarily.

476
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but like if it got physical, maybe a push

477
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>or a shove will probably be as far as it goes, right, Well,

478
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.599
<v Speaker 1>these two girls, that was not the case. Far from it.

479
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 1>They baled their fists up and they began to full

480
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:21.160
<v Speaker 1>out fist fight each other, punching each other as hard

481
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.039
<v Speaker 1>as they could while rolling on the ground. And that

482
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.200
<v Speaker 1>was just normal for them.

483
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was literally how they would

484
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:31.640
<v Speaker 2>just get through an argument.

485
00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they just beat the absolute shit out of each.

486
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Other, Oh my gosh.

487
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Because that's how they dealt with it.

488
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Huh wow, right there, is just like a very descriptive

489
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 2>of their childhood and stuff like it really is. It

490
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:50.759
<v Speaker 2>really paints a picture there.

491
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Huh yeah, yeah, sorry. Another story would tell about Catherine

492
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.119
<v Speaker 1>how she would actually injure be injured sorry, by a

493
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 1>teacher on the school grounds.

494
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:06.400
<v Speaker 2>The teacher injured her, or she injured a teacher.

495
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.839
<v Speaker 1>The teacher injured her, okay, and after kind of questions

496
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.079
<v Speaker 1>about it, they figured out that the teacher actually did

497
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:17.559
<v Speaker 1>it in self defense, oh my gosh, against Catherine.

498
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah. Everyone was probably just like praying that this

499
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.319
<v Speaker 2>and none of these kids were in like their class,

500
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:27.279
<v Speaker 2>or that they didn't end up having them in their class.

501
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:33.759
<v Speaker 1>Kay, oh definitely. Now, However, this wasn't Catherine's general normal behavior.

502
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.440
<v Speaker 1>She was a well behaved kid. She was kind of quiet,

503
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:39.960
<v Speaker 1>she was kind of reserved and shy. She would just

504
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>snap at times out of nowhere. Okay, she would be

505
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.960
<v Speaker 1>actually rewarded for good behavior from the teacher quite a bit.

506
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Like she wasn't a very good student like academic wise,

507
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:54.200
<v Speaker 1>but her behavior generally was good. But something would just

508
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:57.759
<v Speaker 1>set her off and she would fly off the fucking handlebars.

509
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Really, so it was just a switch almost.

510
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Her brain exactly which again comes to that whole disassociation thing.

511
00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Catherine will be fifteen though when she did drop out

512
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 1>of high school. She was nearly illiterate at the time

513
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:14.920
<v Speaker 1>that she left. But despite not having any sort of

514
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.759
<v Speaker 1>like illiterate literal literary skills or any sort of qualifications really,

515
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.559
<v Speaker 1>she was able, able bodied, and managed to get a

516
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.400
<v Speaker 1>job at a clothing factory cutting fabrics pretty much right away.

517
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, that's good she was able to get a job. Yeah,

518
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.200
<v Speaker 2>it sucks that she had to drop out of.

519
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 1>School, though, I agree, But I mean we are talking

520
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:36.440
<v Speaker 1>in the seventies though, Yeah, so it was kind of

521
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of people dropped out of school. It

522
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 1>wasn't it was abnormal to graduate grade twelve, you know.

523
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>It would be a year later, though, twelve months when

524
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Catherine obtained what she describes as her quote dream job,

525
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.440
<v Speaker 1>which was working at the local arbiter. I think I

526
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 1>said that, right, and another word for an arbitoire.

527
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:58.160
<v Speaker 2>That's what Okay, I was like, I have no idea

528
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:58.839
<v Speaker 2>what that is even.

529
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Arbuitoire is how they say and another word for an arbitoire.

530
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.640
<v Speaker 1>And this is how I'm gonna be referring to it

531
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.720
<v Speaker 1>from here and out is a slaughterhouse.

532
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh and that was her dream job.

533
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Hey, that was her dream job. Now there's two parts

534
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:16.759
<v Speaker 1>to this. Devil's advocate here, Okay, okay, So being a

535
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:18.880
<v Speaker 1>butcher is by no means a red flag No, in

536
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.559
<v Speaker 1>my opinion, No, it's not. It's a legit job. I've

537
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 1>done some butchering before. It's bloody, sure, it's kind of gross. Sure, violent,

538
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:27.839
<v Speaker 1>not by any means.

539
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.880
<v Speaker 2>If you describe it kind of as like a butcher

540
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:32.759
<v Speaker 2>like that, it doesn't sound as bad as like her

541
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.000
<v Speaker 2>dream jobs working in a slaughterhouse. Yeah.

542
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, but I mean, like if you go to

543
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.039
<v Speaker 1>like many supermarkets or delis, you have a guy behind

544
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:41.119
<v Speaker 1>the counter cutting up meat.

545
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I would definitely not like be alarmed.

546
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 1>By that person exactly. So like most people who do

547
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 1>this job, they're not violent. It's not creepy as fuck.

548
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:50.839
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people do it.

549
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 2>It's actually an awesome skill to have.

550
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.599
<v Speaker 1>It really is. Yeah. Now, second piece to this, Catherine

551
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>did have a reason for this being her dream job

552
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:04.279
<v Speaker 1>or why she wanted to work in this slaughterhouse. Much

553
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.519
<v Speaker 1>of the surrounding area in these small towns depended on this.

554
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:12.000
<v Speaker 1>This was the industry, the cow farming was huge. Many

555
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.839
<v Speaker 1>people she knew worked at this place, the slaughterhouse. Her

556
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.559
<v Speaker 1>father worked there, her brothers worked there. It was a

557
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:20.319
<v Speaker 1>place to go get a good paying job for many

558
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:21.200
<v Speaker 1>people in the area.

559
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes sense then.

560
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.279
<v Speaker 1>Like for us here in northern BC, forestry is the

561
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.960
<v Speaker 1>main thing that drives you know, the economy.

562
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like you're working in a sawmill or planer or

563
00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:32.519
<v Speaker 2>palt mill or.

564
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, it's just normal around here. Yeah, and that's kind

565
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 1>of what it was for Catherine. It was just normal.

566
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Describing that makes it's not like as alarming to me.

567
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:44.839
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean, in hindsight, it's like, okay, maybe there

568
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:46.839
<v Speaker 1>are some some red flags there a little bit, but

569
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.839
<v Speaker 1>it's not a red flag for just a normal person

570
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 1>to work there, you know, right. Yeah, So Catherine started

571
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.319
<v Speaker 1>working here. She started working at the bottom of the

572
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:57.920
<v Speaker 1>ranks in the workforce, cutting up scrap meats and organ meats,

573
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing. But she would quickly move up

574
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.319
<v Speaker 1>and she would be promoted to boning, where she would basically,

575
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.160
<v Speaker 1>with precision, remove the meat from the bones of the beef.

576
00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:12.799
<v Speaker 1>And it was reported that they did approximately five hundred

577
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:14.200
<v Speaker 1>or six hundred beef per.

578
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Day, like like cows.

579
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 1>Yes, holy heck, which is a lot? That is so much? Yeah,

580
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.319
<v Speaker 1>so it's like it's a big factory, right, it's not

581
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.759
<v Speaker 1>a small little place. Like a lot of people worked here,

582
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.599
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people in these surrounding towns came here,

583
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 1>did this sort of thing. It was just it was

584
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.319
<v Speaker 1>what drove their economy. It was her industry.

585
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

586
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.440
<v Speaker 1>So along with this position, though, Catherine also got her

587
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>own set of butcher's knives for her job. So having

588
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 1>her own set of these knives manes that you are

589
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:45.839
<v Speaker 1>basically looking after them. You're caring for them and suring

590
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.559
<v Speaker 1>they're sharp, ready for work, ready for your shift and everything, right.

591
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.759
<v Speaker 1>And Catherine was elated with this and took pride in

592
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.039
<v Speaker 1>her knives so much so that they were her most

593
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:57.759
<v Speaker 1>prized possession.

594
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but is it kind of like they earned their

595
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.160
<v Speaker 2>knife their knives kind of Oh yeah, definitely. Okay, so

596
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:05.839
<v Speaker 2>that makes it. That makes some sense.

597
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.359
<v Speaker 1>It does make some sense. But what doesn't really make

598
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.079
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of sense is that at home she

599
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.440
<v Speaker 1>even hung her knives above her bed so they would

600
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:19.519
<v Speaker 1>quote would always be handy if I needed them. Oh shit,

601
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a little bit of a red flag there.

602
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's a little bit next level yeap, unnecessary yep, yeah, okay.

603
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's a bit crazy, I'm out sort of thing.

604
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:35.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but sometimes people will have a weapon of

605
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 2>sorts by their bed.

606
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:37.839
<v Speaker 1>That's true in case.

607
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but if.

608
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>You're if it's like your most prized possession that you

609
00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:44.279
<v Speaker 1>take from work and you hang above your like, I

610
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.319
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it just seems a little bit too attached.

611
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a bit weird, it's a bit odd.

612
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And this is a habit she would reportedly continue

613
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:56.599
<v Speaker 1>everywhere she lived until her eventual arrest and incarceration.

614
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, and I'm imagining she probably got some good

615
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:01.680
<v Speaker 2>use of these knives.

616
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean she worked with them every day outside

617
00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:08.720
<v Speaker 1>of work. Yeah, I know what you were aunt saying.

618
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 1>So while Catherine was working happily at her job, she

619
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:14.960
<v Speaker 1>began to spend a lot of time, like you know,

620
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.240
<v Speaker 1>away from work. You know, you've got to go somewhere

621
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.119
<v Speaker 1>when you're not in shift, right, with a new guy

622
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:24.359
<v Speaker 1>that she met in nineteen seventy three. So this man

623
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:28.039
<v Speaker 1>was a coworker of hers, and his name was David

624
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:34.559
<v Speaker 1>Stanford Kellet. So David unfortunately was a very heavy drinker.

625
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Oh, so probably gave her like reminded her of

626
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:42.039
<v Speaker 2>her father maybe thinking, Okay.

627
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Very possible. And I do want to say, like, and

628
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:51.039
<v Speaker 1>those substance abuses never justified, Like, I mean, there's reasons

629
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:54.319
<v Speaker 1>that make it like more understandable, right, But it's like

630
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:58.119
<v Speaker 1>substance abuse is not like, don't do that. But he

631
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:00.519
<v Speaker 1>at least did have somewhat of a good reason for

632
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>his substance abuse. He was likely suffering. And this is

633
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>my diagnosis here from PTSD as he was involved in

634
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 1>two very traumatic work incidents previously on another job. Okay,

635
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.000
<v Speaker 1>so he was working at Coff's Harbor on the railway

636
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 1>when in one incident, his friend was killed in front

637
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.480
<v Speaker 1>of him, as during a train shunting incident. So train

638
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:29.960
<v Speaker 1>shunting is basically like shifting the cars back and forth

639
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:31.440
<v Speaker 1>on hooking hooking up.

640
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.519
<v Speaker 2>That would be hard to witness, I mean friend or not.

641
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, yeah, definitely. And I don't know the details on

642
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.200
<v Speaker 1>how the accident occurred, what exactly happened to the friend,

643
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.599
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of these sort of incidents during this

644
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.440
<v Speaker 1>is usually between two cars.

645
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it wouldn't have been pretty no.

646
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:58.799
<v Speaker 1>And the second one was he reportedly rescued injured individuals

647
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:01.880
<v Speaker 1>from a school bus. Injured children from a school bus

648
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>that had been struck by a train.

649
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

650
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>In the incident, six children reportedly lost their lives.

651
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. So he had like some super trauma

652
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 2>that he was dealing with. Yes, and then back then,

653
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:20.440
<v Speaker 2>who knows if, like if the help that he needed

654
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.039
<v Speaker 2>was even readily available, right?

655
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I highly doubt it was available. Yeah, so

656
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 1>he was carrying some shit and his shoulders. Like I mentioned,

657
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:32.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure saying he had PTSD is kind of

658
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:34.079
<v Speaker 1>spot on with that assessment.

659
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then that wouldn't have probably even been like

660
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.400
<v Speaker 2>a thing that they well back then, would they still

661
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 2>thought had like the diagnosis.

662
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I think they would have, like in the seventhies of.

663
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:46.319
<v Speaker 2>War and stuff.

664
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Probably, yeah, yeah, they would have, but I don't think

665
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.039
<v Speaker 1>it would have been as commonly recognized. So it's hard

666
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 1>to say with him, though, he did eventually lose his

667
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:59.160
<v Speaker 1>job though due to a parent deteriorating behaviors and performances

668
00:33:59.200 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>at work.

669
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.319
<v Speaker 2>He was probably drinking at.

670
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Work, yeah, perhaps trying to deal with the trauma, that's

671
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.599
<v Speaker 1>all wrapped up in his head, and from there he

672
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:11.760
<v Speaker 1>would go on to get his job at the Slaughterhouse,

673
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:17.119
<v Speaker 1>where he would meet Katherine. Okay, so his drinking may

674
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.280
<v Speaker 1>have started as a coping mechanism, but he had turned

675
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 1>into a loud, obnoxious, party type alcoholic who was always

676
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:29.039
<v Speaker 1>getting out of control. He was just the man for

677
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Catherine really, as her drinking was starting to escalate. Though

678
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.519
<v Speaker 1>she wasn't really as much of an alcoholic from my readings,

679
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 1>but he was a heavy, heavy drinker.

680
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

681
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:43.960
<v Speaker 1>So David would soon learn that Catherine was much more

682
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:45.320
<v Speaker 1>than he bargained for.

683
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 2>That's probably the nicest way you could put that.

684
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.039
<v Speaker 1>Hey, yeah, that's yeah, I think so.

685
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh.

686
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 1>So after David popped the big question proposing to her,

687
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.039
<v Speaker 1>the couple would get married married in nineteen seventy four.

688
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, so he even married her.

689
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 1>He definitely got married to her.

690
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

691
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>So, at Catherine's request, they would arrive to their ceremony

692
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 1>on Catherine's motorcycle, with her driving and David on the

693
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.719
<v Speaker 1>back holding onto her. Now it was quite the sight,

694
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.480
<v Speaker 1>as Catherine actually as much taller than David is He's

695
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:26.920
<v Speaker 1>a rather short individual, and Catherine's quite tall, and David

696
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.079
<v Speaker 1>was clearly very intoxicated.

697
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Which is actually illegal, is it not. Oh yeah, yeah,

698
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.079
<v Speaker 2>Like you can't be signing those kind of documents when

699
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 2>you're intoxicated.

700
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I thought you meant like riding on the back

701
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.360
<v Speaker 1>of a motorcycle.

702
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh that.

703
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Too, I guess, yes, yeah, okay, both those things. So

704
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.440
<v Speaker 1>when they arrived at their wedding, the moment they arrived

705
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 1>at the ceremony, before they could even walk down the aisle,

706
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Catherine's mother, Barbara, pulled David aside for some motherly advice.

707
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh I'm intrigued to see what the fuck this advice was.

708
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, this was coming from David, So, remembering back to

709
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:12.039
<v Speaker 1>what she had told him, David said this quote. The

710
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 1>old girl said to me, watch out. You better watch

711
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:18.599
<v Speaker 1>this one or she'll fucking kill you. Stir her up

712
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.840
<v Speaker 1>the wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked.

713
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll fucking

714
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 1>kill you. And that was her mother talking. She told

715
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.840
<v Speaker 1>me she's got something loose, she's got a screw loose somewhere.

716
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I'm surprised that you didn't run for

717
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:38.719
<v Speaker 2>the goddamn hills.

718
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:39.480
<v Speaker 1>No shit.

719
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Could you imagine if, like you're the person you're marrying

720
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.039
<v Speaker 2>their parents said that to you right before you're about

721
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.239
<v Speaker 2>to like walk down the aisle, would you not question

722
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:49.599
<v Speaker 2>like what you're doing?

723
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:53.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean maybe for sure, but I mean, like David

724
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of brushes off. I'm sure he's heard stories of

725
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Catherine's mother, Catherine growing up, the shit she said to her,

726
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:01.679
<v Speaker 1>how she was treated.

727
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.039
<v Speaker 2>So she probably He probably just thought she was crazy

728
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.039
<v Speaker 2>or kind of had a screw loose or whatever she

729
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:08.199
<v Speaker 2>said about Catherine.

730
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, he's thinking, yeah, Catherine's a crazy one. Sure,

731
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Like you know, he's probably thinking, Barbara, you're the one

732
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:15.719
<v Speaker 1>who's got a screw loose.

733
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

734
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.000
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, he didn't. He didn't listen to her.

735
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

736
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:21.840
<v Speaker 1>He didn't take her advice.

737
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.840
<v Speaker 2>That's terrifying though, gosh, okay, yeah.

738
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.119
<v Speaker 1>So he didn't take the words to heart. They walked

739
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 1>down the aisle and they said the I dos, and

740
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 1>this was supposed to be the happiest day of their life.

741
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 1>But things would take a very dark turn that very

742
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>same night.

743
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Are you about to end this episode?

744
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:44.800
<v Speaker 1>No? Not yet?

745
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:48.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay. I was like, you better not not yet. I

746
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 2>was already glaring at you.

747
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.280
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we good. Don't worry.

748
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Don't worry.

749
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:56.639
<v Speaker 2>Next paragraph.

750
00:37:56.760 --> 00:38:00.079
<v Speaker 1>David would wake up after falling asleep on their wedding

751
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:04.440
<v Speaker 1>night with Catherine straddling him and her hands wrapped around

752
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>his throats, attempting to strangle him on.

753
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Their fucking wedding night, on.

754
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Their fucking wedding night. What the actual Yeah? Okay, so

755
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:21.039
<v Speaker 1>it's not exactly clear how David managed to wrestle himself free,

756
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.480
<v Speaker 1>but luckily for him, he was able to save himself

757
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.360
<v Speaker 1>for the situation and he made it through this assault,

758
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:30.519
<v Speaker 1>this attack. But Catherine would tell him she was furious

759
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.280
<v Speaker 1>with him because they only had sex three times that night.

760
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, yes, okay, and because that's honestly where I

761
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:39.559
<v Speaker 2>thought you were going. I was like, oh, there's like

762
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 2>she's straddling him. Okay, wow, you're really telling less about

763
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:44.039
<v Speaker 2>their wedding night. Eh.

764
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:46.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I am, I very much, so am.

765
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.840
<v Speaker 2>But I thought in like a good way, Like I

766
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:50.599
<v Speaker 2>thought it was a good way at first, but okay,

767
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:52.840
<v Speaker 2>three she was upset.

768
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.000
<v Speaker 1>She was upset it was only three times, and she's

769
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.360
<v Speaker 1>she was pissed. Do you know why? Because apparently her

770
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.119
<v Speaker 1>mom was so vocal about her sex life and her

771
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:05.039
<v Speaker 1>experiences that Catherine knew her parents had sex five times

772
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.199
<v Speaker 1>on the night that she got married, so Catherine assumed

773
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:11.039
<v Speaker 1>they needed to do the same thing, thinking that was

774
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:13.400
<v Speaker 1>just normal and what was expected.

775
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Geez. Yeah, Oh, I don't even know what to say.

776
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:20.480
<v Speaker 2>That's just like.

777
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:22.559
<v Speaker 1>A lot.

778
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Interesting, and her like her mum was probably just

779
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:28.559
<v Speaker 2>like spelling shit.

780
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Probably she's probably just bullshitting.

781
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.000
<v Speaker 2>But exaggerating, like being Yeah.

782
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 1>Also, if her husband did have a libido to sexually

783
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.360
<v Speaker 1>assault her up to ten times a day, that might

784
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.599
<v Speaker 1>not be surprising, I guess, But I mean that is

785
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot though, Like that is a lot, Yeah, like

786
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:46.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot.

787
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Could you imagine waking up and someone just pissed because

788
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.599
<v Speaker 2>you only had sex with them three times that night?

789
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. I think I would actually probably not

790
00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.119
<v Speaker 2>be able to contain myself my laughter there.

791
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:01.639
<v Speaker 1>If they're strangling you, maybe not.

792
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:06.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and then I'd try to probably look into an

793
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:07.000
<v Speaker 2>annulment of sort.

794
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. I mean, needless to say, this was

795
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:15.960
<v Speaker 1>quite the wedding night for these two, and basically this

796
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.559
<v Speaker 1>night would paint the way for what their marriage would

797
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.559
<v Speaker 1>look like in the coming years, with violence and with

798
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:24.800
<v Speaker 1>fits of rage. So by the age of twenty though,

799
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Catherine would now be pregnant and the couple would be

800
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 1>expecting their first child. So, on one occasion during her pregnancy,

801
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Catherine decided to take all of her husband's close and

802
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:39.480
<v Speaker 1>his shoes, throw them into a pile, and light them

803
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Speaker 1>on fire. Okay, why Well, during this commotion, she would

804
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.440
<v Speaker 1>then pick up a frying pen turn it on her husband.

805
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 1>She raised it in the air and struck him hard

806
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:52.639
<v Speaker 1>on the back of the head.

807
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:53.599
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

808
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.280
<v Speaker 1>So she did all this because she suspected him of

809
00:40:57.320 --> 00:40:59.320
<v Speaker 1>not being loyal in the relationship.

810
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Ok well, that's kind of fair.

811
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:04.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you shouldn't light his clothes on fire and

812
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.480
<v Speaker 1>strike him on the backhead with a fire frying pan, But.

813
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:07.880
<v Speaker 2>You would have to be certain.

814
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Even if you're certain, you shouldn't.

815
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Do that, right, Yeah, you shouldn't do that.

816
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Okay, carry on, whoa gotcha? Never cheat on Nicole?

817
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Holy shit. Anyways, she did all this because she expected

818
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:33.039
<v Speaker 1>him of cheating, basically because he had returned home late

819
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>one evening from a game of from a dark tournament

820
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.960
<v Speaker 1>where he had made it into the finals. So, I mean,

821
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:41.480
<v Speaker 1>he's out there playing darts. He's making it into deeper

822
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:43.760
<v Speaker 1>and deeper in tournaments. He's taken longer longer, So yeah,

823
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I get it.

824
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

825
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Now, in later years, David did admit to actually cheating

826
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 1>on his wife and her suspicions were true.

827
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

828
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Ye okay, So a friend of David's would actually talk

829
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.840
<v Speaker 1>about this in an interview about how David confided in this,

830
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.599
<v Speaker 1>basically saying, yeah, he was young, he was dumb, he

831
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 1>was doing shit he shouldn't have been doing. But it

832
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:03.960
<v Speaker 1>was also he was not happy at home.

833
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, yeah, like it was almost probably he never

834
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:09.320
<v Speaker 2>knew what the hell he was going home to.

835
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was just violence and again like she would

836
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.599
<v Speaker 1>be happy then all of a sudden something would change

837
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:18.599
<v Speaker 1>and she would snap.

838
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she could even be making up shit two

839
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.320
<v Speaker 2>in her head right, exactly full.

840
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.239
<v Speaker 1>So regardless though, after being struck with a frying pan

841
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.400
<v Speaker 1>in the back of the head, David was days and

842
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:31.280
<v Speaker 1>in fear of his life, so he ran outside to

843
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:34.119
<v Speaker 1>the neighbor's house, where he would collapse in their home.

844
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Cops were called, and via Catherine's convincing, he didn't press

845
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.360
<v Speaker 1>any charges, but he did get taken to the hospital

846
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:47.880
<v Speaker 1>where he was treated for a severe skull fracture. Wow,

847
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:49.440
<v Speaker 1>she struck him that hard.

848
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.360
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty hard, yes, huh.

849
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:57.920
<v Speaker 1>On May eleventh, nineteen seventy six, Catherine would give birth

850
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:03.920
<v Speaker 1>to their daughter, daughter Melissa Anne. The same month, May

851
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:08.119
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen seventy six, David would leave Catherine for another woman.

852
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, yes, and the two would move to Queensland.

853
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:18.159
<v Speaker 1>So soon after, Catherine would commit an absolutely atrocious crime,

854
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and I mean atrocious one that even criminals will try

855
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to kill you for when you're in prison. She attempted

856
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.079
<v Speaker 1>to kill her own newborn daughter.

857
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:35.000
<v Speaker 2>In spite of him leaving. Hey, ess basically or maybe not.

858
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, we'll get into this here.

859
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh man.

860
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.119
<v Speaker 1>So Catherine was seen walking down the street with her

861
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:46.039
<v Speaker 1>daughter in the stroller and reportedly violently swerving it. And

862
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I do want to say violently is the word used

863
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>to describe this violently swerving it from side to side.

864
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.360
<v Speaker 1>She was screaming and yelling in fits of rage as

865
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:59.320
<v Speaker 1>she walked with the stroller. Onlookers were deathly afraid that

866
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:04.960
<v Speaker 1>she was actually to push the stroller into oncoming traffic. Thankfully,

867
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.440
<v Speaker 1>before anything like that happened, she was taken into custody.

868
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:12.559
<v Speaker 1>And admitted into Saint Elmo's Hospital, where she was diagnosed

869
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.639
<v Speaker 1>with postnatal depression.

870
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:18.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, okay, so.

871
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:21.559
<v Speaker 1>She was being treated for depression and she spent several

872
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 1>weeks recovering before being released. Upon her release, however, she

873
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.440
<v Speaker 1>took her now two month old daughter to the nearby

874
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:34.800
<v Speaker 1>railway tracks and placed her daughter on the railway line

875
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.639
<v Speaker 1>where a train was due to come soon, and she

876
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.400
<v Speaker 1>left her there.

877
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my fuck, seriously, yes, why? Holy shit?

878
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Okay, So, thankfully, unbeknownst to Catherine, a local homeless

879
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:55.639
<v Speaker 1>man was in the area, a man by the name

880
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of Old Ted, and he saw this, and he walked

881
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:04.239
<v Speaker 1>up and found oun Melissa laying on the track. Yeah,

882
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 1>laying on the track.

883
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Jeez.

884
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 1>So Melissa was thankfully saved, and only by a few minutes.

885
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, because it was not long after the

886
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 1>train came streaming, screaming down the tracks. If it wasn't

887
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.280
<v Speaker 1>for Old Ted, she would know Old Ted have survived.

888
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:27.239
<v Speaker 2>And please tell me that she never went back with

889
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:34.039
<v Speaker 2>her mom. Okay she did. Wow, Holy shit.

890
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:35.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to hold onto this here.

891
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Well.

892
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Old Ted reported the incident to authorities, and it didn't

893
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:44.920
<v Speaker 1>take long for them to identify little Melissa because Melissa's mom, Catherine,

894
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 1>had gone into town, stolen an axe out of someone's backyard,

895
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:56.079
<v Speaker 1>and was wielding it around her head, threatening to kill people. Understandably,

896
00:45:56.119 --> 00:46:00.000
<v Speaker 1>she was quickly arrested and readmitted into Saint Elmo's Hospital.

897
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it's actually amazing that she got released.

898
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. What's even more amazing is she was released again

899
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:10.400
<v Speaker 1>that very same day.

900
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Okay, that is actually yeah, yeah.

901
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Because she miraculously recovered and signed herself out.

902
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:19.880
<v Speaker 2>There's no way she should have been in there for

903
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.320
<v Speaker 2>a while, like getting some help.

904
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, most definitely. So in hindsight, it's clear to us

905
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that Catherine is not fit to, i mean, leave the hospital.

906
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.000
<v Speaker 1>But one way or another, she managed to fool the doctors.

907
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.199
<v Speaker 1>So once she was out, she continued her wrath, fueled

908
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:37.960
<v Speaker 1>primarily by anger and jealousy of her husband leaving her

909
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:43.400
<v Speaker 1>for another woman. Her focus was on David. She woned revenge,

910
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.360
<v Speaker 1>and she was willing to go to extreme lengths to

911
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 1>get it.

912
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I just have to say two things. First of all,

913
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:52.519
<v Speaker 2>it just popped in my head. I'm surprised that David

914
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:55.480
<v Speaker 2>didn't take Melissa, that he like left her with the

915
00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 2>mom you know. Yeah, and then second of all, but

916
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:05.800
<v Speaker 2>psychopaths are like very charming, usually write and persuasive, So

917
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.039
<v Speaker 2>that's probably how she might have been when she was

918
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 2>in the hospital. Yeah, potentially, right, like easy to just

919
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:13.000
<v Speaker 2>talk her way out of shit and stuff.

920
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, less than twenty four hours after she signed

921
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:22.000
<v Speaker 1>herself out of the hospital, Catherine's violent actions would continue.

922
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:24.800
<v Speaker 1>She made her way over to a neighbor's house, asking

923
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:27.079
<v Speaker 1>them for help. She told them that her daughter, Melissa

924
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:29.559
<v Speaker 1>was sick and she needed someone to drive them to

925
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:33.639
<v Speaker 1>the hospital together so she can be looked at. So

926
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.719
<v Speaker 1>the neighbor agreed, Catherine walked back over to their house.

927
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>The neighbors got their things hopped into their car, and

928
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.480
<v Speaker 1>then drove over to Catherine's house to pick the two

929
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:45.719
<v Speaker 1>of them up. When they went inside, however, to assist Katherine,

930
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:49.599
<v Speaker 1>they were not met with her and her sick daughter. Instead,

931
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:53.320
<v Speaker 1>they were met with Katherine wielding one of her butcher knives.

932
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy.

933
00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:01.559
<v Speaker 1>Katherine chased them and even slashed a large cut across

934
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the woman's face, and she threatened to kill them if

935
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:08.599
<v Speaker 1>they didn't do what she said. She wanted them to

936
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:12.039
<v Speaker 1>drive her to David's mother's house.

937
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

938
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Her intentions were if she couldn't have David, then David

939
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:19.960
<v Speaker 1>couldn't have his mother.

940
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, okay, Oh sorry, I totally misheard that wanted

941
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:30.360
<v Speaker 2>to go to David's mom's house. Not David's house. Yes, okay, sorry.

942
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:31.840
<v Speaker 2>For some reason, I think in my brain just was

943
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 2>like going to David's house. No, David's mom.

944
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 1>She wanted them to drive to David's mother's house so

945
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:39.920
<v Speaker 1>she could kill David's mom.

946
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:40.199
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

947
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:43.519
<v Speaker 1>And that's where we're going to end this episode.

948
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I felt like it was coming to

949
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 2>an end. Heerh wow. Okay, okay, just okay, I mean

950
00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:01.360
<v Speaker 2>this one is what is quite a lot here? Yeah

951
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:04.760
<v Speaker 2>you think, yeah, like for the next week now, I'm

952
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.280
<v Speaker 2>just gonna be like in deep thought over this. This person.

953
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Did I break you? Is your brain broken right now?

954
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:17.079
<v Speaker 2>A little bit? Actually, I'm processing so much shit right

955
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:20.599
<v Speaker 2>now that I my little innocent brain would never have

956
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:24.159
<v Speaker 2>thought could be. So just bear with me.

957
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'll bear with you. I got it.

958
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I am very surprised. Sometimes that shit still stocks me

959
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:30.280
<v Speaker 2>so much.

960
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:32.679
<v Speaker 1>I can tell. Do you feel like a drink now?

961
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Maybe?

962
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Maybe this is an absolutely wild case. Researching it has

963
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.880
<v Speaker 1>been very interesting, to say the least. I'm kind of

964
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.199
<v Speaker 1>glad I'm doing a deeper dive on this one.

965
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I honestly find it not easier, but like because

966
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.320
<v Speaker 2>you're more in control when you're researching it, almost like

967
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:56.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't affect me as much as like me just like

968
00:49:56.440 --> 00:50:00.000
<v Speaker 2>stet like sitting here and standing here whatever listening. Yeah,

969
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.760
<v Speaker 2>fair enough, No, because and then you're literally having to

970
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:05.559
<v Speaker 2>process all the shit in like such a small period

971
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:06.360
<v Speaker 2>of time.

972
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:09.679
<v Speaker 1>And well, researching it you can you can absorb it

973
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:11.760
<v Speaker 1>and read it at your own pace. Yeah, right, So

974
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.719
<v Speaker 1>we take the time we research it. We stand the

975
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:17.840
<v Speaker 1>same topic for a little while, we read several articles

976
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.639
<v Speaker 1>about the same thing, we write it out ourselves, and

977
00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:23.079
<v Speaker 1>then that's a lot of time to, like you say,

978
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.519
<v Speaker 1>process it before you move on to the next piece

979
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:30.159
<v Speaker 1>of information. Yeah, this it's just right across your face.

980
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.039
<v Speaker 2>A slap in the face.

981
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that was a very low, like low sounding clap,

982
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:35.639
<v Speaker 1>her slap.

983
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.119
<v Speaker 2>But it's also amazing that I don't I have never

984
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:40.639
<v Speaker 2>heard of her.

985
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:41.960
<v Speaker 1>You've never heard of her?

986
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:44.800
<v Speaker 2>No, really no, which is bizarre.

987
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you have, you just don't recognize the case

988
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:49.800
<v Speaker 1>yet because we're still her early years.

989
00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:53.079
<v Speaker 2>It's true. Oh gosh, Lord knows what she's going to

990
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:53.519
<v Speaker 2>get up to.

991
00:50:55.320 --> 00:51:00.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ben knows it's not cool. I'm sure a lot

992
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:02.079
<v Speaker 1>of people out there listening to this episode also know

993
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.280
<v Speaker 1>it's not cool. It's a lot so heads up on that.

994
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:10.719
<v Speaker 1>But well, we'll buckle up and we'll talk all about

995
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:16.119
<v Speaker 1>it next week, next Tuesday, next Tuesday. Yeah, So should

996
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:18.760
<v Speaker 1>we maybe do a post show today from Patreon talk

997
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:21.760
<v Speaker 1>about this, maybe unfold some of your emotions you're dealing

998
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:22.519
<v Speaker 1>with right now.

999
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:25.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know, let's do it. I might just

1000
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:27.159
<v Speaker 2>be like, still stunned.

1001
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:29.639
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna do a quick little post show. If you're

1002
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.679
<v Speaker 1>on Patreon or wanting to sign up, the link is

1003
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:33.639
<v Speaker 1>down below. You can go ahead and sign up. We

1004
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it. It really supports the show. If not, that's totally

1005
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:41.599
<v Speaker 1>cool too. But we have all our links down there, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,

1006
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.840
<v Speaker 1>which we are actually actively vlogging on now.

1007
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's we never even mentioned that yet that there's

1008
00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a new new blog up. Yeah, I have video up.

1009
00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>That's cool.

1010
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:52.760
<v Speaker 1>So link is down below, go check it out. We're

1011
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.679
<v Speaker 1>gonna be doing a lot more vlogs coming up. Yeah,

1012
00:51:55.719 --> 00:51:58.920
<v Speaker 1>all the good stuff is down there, including also the

1013
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.440
<v Speaker 1>link to go listen to our podcast Fearful.

1014
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:05.440
<v Speaker 2>So there's a lot of goodies down there, look at so.

1015
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Go check it out. In the meantime though, like I said,

1016
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:10.039
<v Speaker 1>we'll see you next week or maybe we'll see you

1017
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:10.519
<v Speaker 1>on Patreon.

1018
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so entil Part two, Stay wicked.