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<v Speaker 1>Gannetta's long awaited body to tackle foreign interference has come

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<v Speaker 1>into effect. Anton Bogemann has been named the country's first

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<v Speaker 1>ever Foreign Influence Transparency Commissioner. He will be responsible for

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<v Speaker 1>managing and maintaining the public registry, enforcing compliance and issuing penalties,

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<v Speaker 1>and providing public guidance, and referring criminal threats to security

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<v Speaker 1>agencies like CEESIS or the RCMP. Commissioner bogeman joins me, Now,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you very much for your time today. The office

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<v Speaker 1>is now up and running. Have you had any outreach

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<v Speaker 1>with anyone registering yet?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. We actually had one registration come into the office

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<v Speaker 2>on our first day, on the fourth, and that's currently

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<v Speaker 2>with the team to review that registration make sure it

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<v Speaker 2>complies with the regulations. So I know at least one

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<v Speaker 2>has come in. But there is a time leg built

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<v Speaker 2>into the legislation, so any existing arrangements must be registered

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<v Speaker 2>within sixty days of the coming into into force, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's by October third, and then any new arrangements that

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<v Speaker 2>start after the coming into a force, there's fourteen days

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<v Speaker 2>within which those need to be registered.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us anything about the first.

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<v Speaker 2>One other than it is from I believe a civil

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<v Speaker 2>society organization that is working with a foreign principle, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have the details on that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. One thing that you had mentioned in some of

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<v Speaker 1>your interviews leading up to this moment is that you

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<v Speaker 1>had not been brief yet by Canada's national security agencies.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you had any briefings yet and have you learned

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<v Speaker 1>anything about sort of the state of what you'll be

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so those are still in the progress of getting

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<v Speaker 2>set up. You need to go to a secure location

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<v Speaker 2>and getting one of those away from Ottawa. It's proving

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<v Speaker 2>just a little bit challenging, but that will happen in

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<v Speaker 2>the very near future.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. Now, there may be some confusion among Canadians about

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<v Speaker 1>what exactly your office does and what your office does

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<v Speaker 1>not do. From your perspective, what do you see as

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<v Speaker 1>the priority for you in this role. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So the mandate of the office, and with the new

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<v Speaker 2>legislation that comes in it establishes the new office. It

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<v Speaker 2>established is myself as commissioner and really a public registry

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<v Speaker 2>of foreign influence activity. So my role is to administer

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<v Speaker 2>the new statute, to maintain the registry, to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that the information in the registry is made publicly available

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<v Speaker 2>to Canadians as well as to monitor compliance and enforced

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<v Speaker 2>compliance when necessary.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, you told our colleagues here at CBC that your

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<v Speaker 1>office will not be solving foreign interference. Of course, it

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<v Speaker 1>is something that Canadians has been front and center for

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<v Speaker 1>Canadians with the concerns that have been reported on over

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<v Speaker 1>the past couple of years. Can you sort of explain

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<v Speaker 1>why that's not what your office is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>focusing on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so maybe just to reinforce that my office and

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<v Speaker 2>the new transparency legislation, the Foreign Influence Transparency and Accountability Act,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really about ensuring transparency for these influence activities carried

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<v Speaker 2>out on behalf of foreign principles that are targeting our

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<v Speaker 2>political and government processes. So it's an important new tool.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a tool that wasn't there previously and is definitely

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<v Speaker 2>part of the solution, but part of the solution alongside

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<v Speaker 2>the other work that the other agencies are doing, the

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<v Speaker 2>other National security agencies Department, you know, the Ministry of

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<v Speaker 2>Public Safety, r cmp cis CSE, the Rapid Response Mechanism,

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<v Speaker 2>and those that we're working within their own mandates to

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<v Speaker 2>address those aspects of foreign interference that are not part

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<v Speaker 2>of mind. So, you know, talking about the illegal activities,

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<v Speaker 2>the you know, coursive activities, things like transnational repression, cyber attacks,

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<v Speaker 2>those sorts of things, they're outside of our mandate. Our

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<v Speaker 2>mandate is just on making transparent the foreign influence activities

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<v Speaker 2>that are targeting our political and governmental processes.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think it would be helpful at any point

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<v Speaker 1>if perhaps your mandate were expanded to include some of

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<v Speaker 1>those things that you just mentioned. They are some of

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<v Speaker 1>those things that are deep concerns for Canadians.

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<v Speaker 2>As this is just launching, you know, I hesitate to

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<v Speaker 2>make any comments on that at this point in time,

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<v Speaker 2>but certainly what I do see as part of my

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<v Speaker 2>role and what I've done in previous roles when I

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<v Speaker 2>was Chief Electoral Officer in British Columbia is I do

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<v Speaker 2>watch very closely how the legislation is implemented, what the

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<v Speaker 2>impact are, and understanding how that is being put in place,

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<v Speaker 2>so that I can make recommendations to parliamentarians if I

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<v Speaker 2>think that any changes need to be made around the Act,

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<v Speaker 2>around the regulations and around the mandate.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you going to assess when something sort of

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<v Speaker 1>crosses a line and is worth the attention of national

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<v Speaker 1>policing agencies or intelligence agencies in Canada. What tools do

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<v Speaker 1>you have to sort of assess whether it's something for

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<v Speaker 1>you to be dealing with or something for law enforcement

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<v Speaker 1>to be dealing with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yees. So we're part of the national intelligence community, we're

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<v Speaker 2>part of the national security community. We have MLUS currently,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, with the RCMP and ceases to enable exchange

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<v Speaker 2>of information joint activities where necessary, as well have an

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<v Speaker 2>internal capacity within the organization, you know, to be monitoring

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<v Speaker 2>what is taking place in the environment. So part of

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<v Speaker 2>that is understanding what mandates are in place, understanding the

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<v Speaker 2>leavers that the other agencies have, and knowing how those

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<v Speaker 2>fit into our mandates. So we'll be able to if

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<v Speaker 2>we come across something that obviously is outside of our

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<v Speaker 2>mandate that does fall under the legislation of the other agencies,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be able to pass that on to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Your office has the ability to impose fines on anyone

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<v Speaker 1>found to be sort of violating this violating the law here.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that there needs to be more teeth here?

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<v Speaker 1>From your purview, it should go beyond fines. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>quite sure what it would but is there something that

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<v Speaker 1>you think that perhaps to send a message to ensure compliance,

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<v Speaker 1>Is there something further that could be done.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean certainly, enforcing compliance with the new laws

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<v Speaker 2>and the new requirements is an important aspect of maintaining

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<v Speaker 2>deterrence against you know, kind of covert foreign influence activities.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, of course, the clients mechanism and the enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>mechanisms haven't been tested. There's a wide range of administrative

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<v Speaker 2>penalties that we will be administering, from two hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty dollars to one million dollars in terms of a fine,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course then becomes that any violation will be public,

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<v Speaker 2>so there will be a naming and shaming component to that.

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<v Speaker 2>But the act also establishes offenses on the criminal side

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<v Speaker 2>for perhaps more serious offenses, perhaps if someone was deliberately

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<v Speaker 2>obstructing the work of the Commission, and in that case

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<v Speaker 2>the RCMP can enforce those and that includes jail time

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<v Speaker 2>up to five years and finds it up to five

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars. So there is a teeth in the legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>As I mentioned before, I'll be watching how this works,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do have the ability to know to write

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<v Speaker 2>reports to parliamentarians with any recommendations for change.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you report to Parliament, as you just mentioned there,

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<v Speaker 1>one year from now. If you were to sit here

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<v Speaker 1>and have a conversation about how the first year is gone,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the benchmarks, What does success look like like

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<v Speaker 1>to you one year from now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think success one is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>that the office and these requirements are well understood by Canadians,

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<v Speaker 2>by businesses that may be, you know, working with foreign principles,

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<v Speaker 2>by civil society groups, by academia, by the media, by parliamentarians, legislators,

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<v Speaker 2>public officeholders at all levels. I think that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be really important. I think also that you know that

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<v Speaker 2>that there are registries in the register that that individuals

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<v Speaker 2>and organizations who are carrying out this activity are making

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<v Speaker 2>these activities transparent when they're impacting political and government processes

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<v Speaker 2>in Canada. You know, transparency, it's one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>effective tools I think that we have to help build

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<v Speaker 2>resilience against foreign interference to help maintain trust in democratic institutions.

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<v Speaker 2>And with this new registry, adding an additional new tool

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<v Speaker 2>to the mix. Seeing it working, seeing it working in place,

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<v Speaker 2>I think is going to be an important accountability measure.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, thank you very much for your time today.

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<v Speaker 1>Commissioner Anton Bogman is Canada's foreign influenced transparency commissioner.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much,