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What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 21 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:47.640 I never win? 22 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:49.200 And tell well, there you have it. 23 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:52.399 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com. 24 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:53.679 Play for free right now? 25 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.479 Are you feeling lucky? No, We're not necessary forever Gonna be long, 26 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:58.399 eighteen plus terms, conditions of pluck, se what's every details? 27 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:13.280 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 28 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:16.400 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 29 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:23.760 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 30 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.480 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 31 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:32.120 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 32 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:36.439 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 33 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:46.680 Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 34 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.439 program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime 35 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.000 history and the authors that have written about them, Sam, 36 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:55.599 could you do me a favor? Thus begins a story 37 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:58.200 that has now become part of America's true crime Hall 38 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:02.239 of Fame. Is a very grotesque tale befitting a Stephen 39 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.959 King novel. It is also a David and Goliath saga, 40 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.960 the story of a young lawyer, fresh from the public 41 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:12.680 Defender's office, whose first client in private practice turns out 42 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.120 to be the worst serial killer in America's history. Sam 43 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.240 Amaranti has just opened his first law practice when he 44 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.560 got a phone call from his friend John Wayne Gacy, 45 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:26.120 a well known and well liked community figure. Gasey was 46 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:29.840 upset about what he called police harassment and asked Amarante 47 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.639 for help, with the police following his every move in 48 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:36.360 connection with the disappearance of a local teenager. Gasey eventually 49 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.120 gives a drunken, dramatic early morning confession to his new lawyer. 50 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:43.960 Gasey is eventually charged with murder and Amorandi subtly becomes 51 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.319 the defense attorney for one of America's most disturbing serial killers. 52 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:50.400 It is his first case. This is a gripping narrative 53 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:53.080 that re enacts the gruesome killings and the famous trial 54 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.919 that shocked the nation. The book this evening we were 55 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.639 featuring is John Wayne Gacy Defending a Monster with my 56 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.479 special guest Judge Sam Amaranti and Danny Broderick. Thank you, 57 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:06.039 gentlemen for agreeing to be on this program and welcome 58 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:06.840 to True Murder. 59 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.919 Thank you, Dan, Thanks Dan, Hi, Thank you very much. 60 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:13.199 This is going to be a great program for our 61 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:16.400 audience and a big thrill for me. This is as 62 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:19.919 always intrigued me, John Wayne Gacy. He is definitely one 63 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.879 of the most amazing characters in history. I would say, 64 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.360 never mind true crime history. Now let's get down to 65 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.360 the setup. Here we're talking about Chicago, and a little 66 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.599 place in Chicago's called the Plaines. Let's go back to 67 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:43.199 the Nissan Pharmacy, Larry and Phil Thorpe's business and a 68 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.000 young boy named Rob Peaste and what is John Wayne Gacy? 69 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.000 Just go back to that moment? What is first? Tell 70 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.439 us who John Wayne Gacy is? Just roughly who he 71 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:58.000 is basically in that community. What type of person is he? 72 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:02.280 And take us back to that faithful night on December eleventh, 73 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:03.400 nineteen seventy eight. 74 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.879 Okay, I let Danny start with that. I'll start with that. 75 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:12.080 And John Wayne Gacy was a painting well a contractor 76 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:17.600 of some with some success. He was he was always working. 77 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:22.839 He began his business PDM contracting, which was stood for 78 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:27.199 painting maintenance and what was the other painting decorating and yeah, 79 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.959 page to painting district, decorating and maintenance. And he started 80 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:39.000 to specialize somewhat in doing pharmacies and drug stores. Nissan 81 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.839 Pharmacy was a drug store and he had he went 82 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:47.920 there to bid a job to the Tork brothers who 83 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:53.319 were the owners of drug store. Gaycy was also a 84 00:04:53.600 --> 00:05:00.199 precinct captain in his precinct. He was also on UH 85 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:06.120 commission for the Lighting district. He was a local politician 86 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.160 of some note. He was a very good precinct captain. 87 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.560 He brought in the votes, et cetera. So he was 88 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.399 he was a clone. He was also a clown, that's correct. 89 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:20.920 And he was very very well known. He used to 90 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.600 have parties at his house that four hundred people Black 91 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.879 parties and very well white and very end of that, 92 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.959 believe it or not. Yeah, And he would have parties 93 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.920 at his house that were theme parties. Year after year 94 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:37.920 he would have, you know, four hundred people or thereabouts 95 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.959 in attendance. So this is the guy that we're talking about, 96 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:47.160 someone that everybody knew and if the mayor knew him 97 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.399 or knew who he was, he was he was. He 98 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.600 actually ran the Polish Day parade. And not a scary guy. 99 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:55.720 And it was the scariest thing about him. He was 100 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:59.920 not a scary guy. Yeah, he wasn't intimidating, nerve wracking. 101 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.600 He wouldn't scare you. As a matter of fact. He 102 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.199 was the kind of guy that would volunteer for just 103 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.120 about anything and everything. If somebody said I need somebody 104 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:11.120 to pick up around here, he'd be the first one 105 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.120 with his hand up. So this is the guy. And 106 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:19.959 on that night, December eleventh, nineteen seventy eight, he was 107 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:24.680 in the pharmacy to bid a job for, you know, 108 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:30.519 some remodeling in that pharmacy. Now they were friends with. 109 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.120 Now he's friends with the owners, Larry and Phil thorpe 110 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:40.319 Now who was Rob Peacete, he was working at the store. 111 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.959 Tell us how he may have came or how he 112 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.800 did come to come in contact with John Wayne Gacy. 113 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.519 John Wayne Gacy had come there, had visited, and had left, 114 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:55.000 but apparently had left his address book behind. So tell 115 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.800 us about that interaction and also about Kim Barnes because 116 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.519 it would be important later. 117 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.199 Yeah, Robbie Peaste was a really good kid. He was 118 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:07.120 a hard working kid. He was a good student, an athlete, 119 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:09.720 and he had a part time job there in the pharmacy, 120 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:12.959 trying to raise money for various things, especially to get 121 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:17.040 a new car that he wanted. And Nat Knight was 122 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:19.319 his mother's birthday, and his mom came to pick him 123 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.600 up at the pharmacy and he ran across you know, 124 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:26.360 Gaysey ran across him in the pharmacy, which initially Gaysey 125 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.360 denied that he ever saw the kid in the pharmacy. 126 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:33.120 But then he finally admitted that and he ran across 127 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:36.639 him and he told the kid he saw him working 128 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.399 hard and that he might be able to fit in 129 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:43.199 with his contracting with Gaysey's contracting company, and asked him 130 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.399 to come and go with him and apply for a job. 131 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.439 And at first the boy was hesitant because his mom 132 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.040 was waiting for him, he was getting out of work, 133 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.480 but he really wanted this new job. Gaysey promised him 134 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:54.959 he could make more money than he was making at 135 00:07:55.000 --> 00:08:00.759 the pharmacy, and then he basically lured him into his 136 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.399 his car. Gasey went home first, actually he went home. 137 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.319 He left, and he went home and he forgot his 138 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:09.959 fate would have it, he forgot his his calendar book, 139 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.279 his diary at the pharmacy, and he went back there. 140 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:14.600 And when he went back, he struck up this conversation 141 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:17.120 with Robbie Peace too. He saw the throwing garbage out 142 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.000 in the back of the pharmacy, and then he ultimately, 143 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.959 you know, Gasey was the consummate con man, the world's 144 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.600 chief manipulator, and he was able to manipulate and cond 145 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:31.360 Peace and getting into his car truck, into his truck 146 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.480 come back with it tright, we would normally he wouldn't 147 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.840 do that. And then he did his typical braggedo's type things, 148 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.799 telling Peace how he could do this and do that, 149 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.320 and what a great guy he was, and how much 150 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.639 Peace would like to work for him, and eventually took 151 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.240 him back while Robbie's mother was waiting for him in 152 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.080 front of the store. Gasey took Piece back to his house, 153 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.480 which was probably about fifteen twenty minutes away from the pharmacy, 154 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.320 and ultimately, as he read in the book, he he 155 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:06.039 killed Robert Peast after showing him this rope trick and 156 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.919 just different things like Casey did. Yeah, and the depiction 157 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.600 in the book, we've gotten some questions about how we 158 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:18.600 could put in such a vivid depiction. That depiction was 159 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.679 given to us by John Wayne Gacy, given to Sam 160 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.159 during some of the confessions. We also had access to 161 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.879 all the statements that he made to the police. We 162 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.720 had access to all the books that have been written, 163 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.799 and so there's some but very little artistic license. We 164 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.960 know for a fact that that's what happened when he 165 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.159 when they got back to John Wayne Gacy's house. Yeah, 166 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.120 when Gessey talked to me. He was very very specific 167 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.320 about what happened. He was specific about the conversations he 168 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.639 had about his murder victims, how he killed him, why 169 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.919 he killed them. And Robbie basically kind of broke the 170 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.360 mold because a lot of Casey's victims either were from 171 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.679 already or he picked him up in a place called 172 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:09.000 buck House Square, which was a hangout for one of 173 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:14.080 homosexual hustlers. Rather try to hustle to make some money now, 174 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.960 and Robbie broke the robery, broke them. He wasn't the same. 175 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.000 It was something that Gaysey did a little differently than 176 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.039 he did with his other murder victims. 177 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:25.039 Right now, he couldn't hit them now. While the mother 178 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:31.360 is waiting for the son, you know, he disappears. Basically 179 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.279 he disappears, you say, John Wayne Gacy, the con man 180 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.679 talks this kid into going back to his home on 181 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:39.759 the promise of jeez, won't your mother be surprised and 182 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.799 won't this to be a nice present. He did show 183 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:47.240 the con because he used something. The kid really knew 184 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:49.399 and was very responsible and wanted to get back and 185 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.639 knew how important this birthday was. Yet he still talked 186 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.480 this kid into with the lure of a five dollars 187 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.639 wage rather than two eighty five that the kid was making, 188 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.480 and he played upon that, manipulated the kid with that. Now, 189 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.759 what happens back at the pharmacy with the mother and 190 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:10.000 with rob Peaste's father and family, tell us about what 191 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:15.519 happens back at the pharmacy. Meanwhile with the mother, Well. 192 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:17.120 She waited and waited a while, and she went and 193 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:20.639 looking for him, and he was gone. And everybody assumed 194 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.799 he had just left and maybe forgot she was there 195 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.320 or something, and went home by himself. And she went 196 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:27.960 on to get him, and he obviously wasn't there. 197 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:28.600 She was. 198 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.039 It was her birthday. People were awaiting, her family was 199 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:34.799 waiting for them, and Robbie never showed up. And because 200 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:36.799 this was so unusual, I mean, the kid never did 201 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:41.360 anything like that, they immediately immediately contacted the Displains police 202 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.720 where they lived in Illinois. Here we call it displains. 203 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.879 It should be the plan, yeah, but we call it displays. 204 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:53.279 And she contacted them, and you know, as usually is 205 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:57.159 the case with missing teenagers, police said first, you know, 206 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:59.759 said okay, well he'll be home, things like that. But 207 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.759 they hounded the parents hounded the police I mean, they 208 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.600 wouldn't take no for an answer. They wouldn't take he's 209 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:09.559 not coming home because he's a runaway teenager. And they 210 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:15.080 were so hounding them so much and so serious about 211 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:19.799 the kids lack of doing this in the past that 212 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.639 the police really got on the case right away and 213 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:24.720 they went to see Gaysey. But again, Gaysey was the 214 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:27.840 it was a manipulator, and he was able to con 215 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:28.960 the police that night too. 216 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.039 Did What did John Wayne Gacy say the police when 217 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:38.159 he was questioned about whether he had spoken to Rob 218 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.559 Peace or whether he'd seen him, And what did the 219 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.879 police do shortly afterwards after they had questioned John Wayne Gacy. 220 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.480 Well, it was it was actually twenty four hours before 221 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.200 they actually went. It was almost to the to the 222 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.879 hour one day later that they went to his house. 223 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:02.200 They had questioned him over the tele phone the next morning. 224 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.480 They had worked with the parents all that night and 225 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.559 you know, looked for him and the parents went out 226 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.080 and looked for him as well. But then when morning came, 227 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:18.519 an officer I believe his name was Rogers, called Gaysey 228 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:19.200 in the morning. 229 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:19.919 Uh. 230 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.960 Gaysey was actually in the middle of a meeting. Uh, 231 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.159 he did not ever see the kid yeah, the night 232 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:29.360 had having ever seen the kid. And this is after 233 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:33.279 the night that he you know, killed him. Uh, Rob 234 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:36.000 Peace was still in the house. Okay, So that was 235 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.200 in the morning. And then later that night, about nine o'clock, 236 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:45.200 four ranking officers from the Displays Police Department went to 237 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:52.399 Gaycy's house. Two stayed outside because one of Gasey's employees 238 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.000 were what happened to be outside happened to arrive at 239 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.480 the same time that the police did. So they stayed 240 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:02.200 outside with the kid, kept him occupied, and two went 241 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.600 to the door and Gacy invited them in and to 242 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.399 talk to them as if nothing had happened. And the 243 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.000 eerie and grotesque thing that is true is that all 244 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.960 the while there was Rob Peaste was in the attic 245 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:24.360 and just a few under seven bodies were underfoot, and 246 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.320 he talked to them as if nothing had happened. Now 247 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.200 they got a little insistent, and at that point he 248 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.960 got a little belligerent. He said the kind of famous words, 249 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.759 don't you have any respect for the dead? Because he 250 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:47.039 had gotten word that his uncle, his mother's brother, had 251 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:51.039 passed away and he had to go and see to that, 252 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.919 you know, make a funeral arrangements and everything. So he 253 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:59.240 said these words to these officers at a time, and 254 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:03.279 after some prolong questioning, they didn't have any other evidence, 255 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.799 they didn't have anything else to go on. They left. 256 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:11.279 Although they suspected him greatly, they all left and after 257 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.639 that he disposed of the body. Yeah, there was really 258 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:17.399 nothing they could do. He was a businessman in the area, 259 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.759 and they at the time they didn't know about his background, 260 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.399 that he had a conviction for sodomy ten years before that, 261 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.120 and they were just beginning the investigation. They did know 262 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:27.960 anything about him other and he was upstanding members of 263 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.200 the community, and these people were complaining about him. So 264 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.759 what they when he told them? Although they suspected he 265 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.080 might have been lying, they tended to believe him a 266 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:37.639 little bit too. 267 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.960 When did it come at what point he said they 268 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.080 went and questioned him before they had checked out his 269 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.879 previous record forsodomy in his ten year sentence and the 270 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.799 pending court case that he had as well, and then 271 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:55.519 the other case where either was an acquittal or there 272 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.679 was something wrong with that trial. Refreshed my memory on 273 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.799 that one. But when did they look into his background 274 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.759 and his criminal record and then further suspect him. 275 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.879 I imagine when you know, when the state's attorneys got involved, 276 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.320 when the investigation became more more heated and they got 277 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.879 the state's attorney's office, the prosecutors involved, then I think 278 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.799 they started looking into his into his criminal background. Yeah, 279 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:20.559 and as soon as they found out that he had 280 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:25.279 a prior conviction for sodomy, they locked in on him, 281 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.879 justifiably so. And they were convinced that he had something 282 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.960 to do with the disappearance of rob Peace. But they 283 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.399 didn't know if he was hiding him, right, They didn't 284 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.519 know if he was dead or if he was just 285 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:46.279 being hidden or you know what to think at the time, nobody, 286 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.399 but nobody at that time suspected John Wayne Gacy of 287 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:57.279 anything other than his his potential involvement with Robbie Peat. 288 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.279 Now, how did police proceed, you say, now, they once 289 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:05.640 they looked into his record, that's once Terry Sullivan got involved, 290 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:11.079 the state attorney prosecuting attorney. Now, tell us what the 291 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.640 police did in terms of they say, didn't have enough 292 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.039 evidence for a warrant. I'm suspecting, So how did they 293 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.519 proceed with this investigation? How did they gather information? And 294 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.359 tell us how they proceed with this case? 295 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.920 Well, I started tailing them. They put a unit on 296 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.079 Gaysey twenty four hours a day. They had two police 297 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.839 officers following him everywhere he went, watching every movie made, 298 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.759 and that's when he went That's when he called me 299 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.400 to see me. They were asking him to come in 300 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.839 to give statements. He had a lawyer who was a 301 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.400 civil lawyer who really knew nothing about criminal defense work, 302 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.960 and he really wasn't helping him too much. So Gaysey 303 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:53.519 decided to call me, who he knew as I was 304 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:57.920 a chief public defender in the Northwest suburban area. And 305 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.559 he called me because they were tailing him so much. 306 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.599 They just put a constant tail on him to see 307 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:04.200 what he would do where he was going, and he 308 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:06.440 was actually playing games with them. He would, you know, 309 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.799 he would tell them things like, oh, clowns could get 310 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.839 away with murder, and playing little cat and mouse games 311 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.440 like a lot of these serial killers do. But they 312 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:16.359 were looking for evidence. But even though they were tailing them, 313 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:20.559 they simply couldn't find anything. He actually invited them into 314 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.599 his house and he had a some pump they used 315 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.839 to work in the crawl space where most of the 316 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:31.759 bodies were, and he turned off to some pump to 317 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.839 create a smell, he turned up the forced air heat. 318 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.079 And at the time he did that, one of the 319 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.079 police officers said he smelled when he was in the 320 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.240 in the house, he smelled a smell that in his 321 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.880 experience he knew was similar to that of putrefying bodies. 322 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:55.680 And that was one of the bases of the first 323 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.480 search war, that the officer smelled that smell and Gasey 324 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.799 fighted them into the house. And actually, to me, it 325 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:04.799 seemed like he was trying to get caught. Why don't 326 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.839 get companies just couldn't come out and say he did something. Actually, 327 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.279 there was another search warrant. There was another search warrant 328 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:15.599 that they did that they did execute while Gasey was 329 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.480 with them, I'm pretty sure. And then that was when 330 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.079 the officer smelled that smell. And then they got the 331 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.200 second search war when he was in custody. 332 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:30.440 And what did they find in that the first search warrant? 333 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.240 They found something in the garbage and it turned out 334 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.960 to be very important at the trial, something. 335 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.200 With There was a receipt, There was a receipt from 336 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:45.799 photos that the receipt was in Robbie Peaste's jacket that 337 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:51.319 his girlfriend Kim, he mentioned earlier, he had given her 338 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.079 the receipt and when the police were doing the search 339 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.480 warrant they found they looked in the garbage can and 340 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.960 found this receipt in the garbage can. Yeah, Kim Barnes 341 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.839 was an employee at the Actually I don't think they 342 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.279 knew he did. Buyers and yeah, buyers and she she 343 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:13.599 liked Rob. She had gotten her own pictures. She took 344 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.359 her own pictures in to be developed. She was wearing 345 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:22.720 Rob's jacket because it was cold up front at the checker. 346 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.200 You know where the cash register was, because the doors 347 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.079 and if you go back there today, that building is 348 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:34.480 still there, that parking lot is still there, and it's eerie. 349 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.440 But it happens to be a nurse. 350 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.599 Lucky Land casino. 351 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.279 Asking people what's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? Lucky? 352 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:43.799 In line at the Delhi I. 353 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.680 Guess ah, in my dentist's office more than once. 354 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:48.319 Actually do you I have to say? 355 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:48.759 Yes? 356 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:49.000 You do? 357 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.720 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting. 358 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.359 Really yes, excuse me, what's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 359 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.200 I never win and tell. 360 00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:58.079 Well, there you have it. 361 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:01.359 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky Landslaughts dot com. 362 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:02.599 Play for free right now? 363 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.920 Are you feeling lucky? No, we're just necessary void rever 364 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.359 my long eighteen plus terms and conditions of plus every details. 365 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:09.440 Okay, Round two. 366 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.400 Name something that's not boring. 367 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:19.920 Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire. Huh oh, sorry, we 368 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.319 were looking for chumba casino. 369 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:24.000 Chum. 370 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.920 That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 371 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.319 style games joined today and play for free for your 372 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:34.519 chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum chumbacasino dot com. 373 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.440 No percessing eighty plus starts, conditions of plus what's. 374 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:42.279 Retails seems a nurse like a nursery or nurse a 375 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:47.559 nursery school. And the doors have there were there were 376 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.240 no revolving doors, so when you'd open the door, there'd 377 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.559 be a blast of air coming in. So she was 378 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.640 wearing Robbie's jacket and she had inverted she well, actually 379 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.480 wasn't inadvert and she put she remembers specifically that she 380 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:08.160 put that receipt for the photos into the pocket. Then 381 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.440 she forgot about it. She gave the coat back to 382 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.119 Rob because it was the end of their shift, and 383 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.839 Rob wore that coat into Gaycy's house. 384 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.559 That ends up we'll talk about that later, but that 385 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.720 ends up being one of the more important bits of 386 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:29.880 evidence at trial, at least using the prosecution. Yes, now 387 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:34.880 let's get back to so Now, first the investigation with 388 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:40.359 Terry Sullivan being involved, they have got a couple of 389 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:44.880 police on him, tailing him. John Wayne Gacy knows that 390 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.160 he has a tail on him, and he basically drives 391 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.559 around like a madman through the city, playing games and 392 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.599 then inviting police in for uh into his home like 393 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.960 maybe an innocent person would Certainly you wouldn't think a 394 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:00.759 guilty person would be inviting police into the home. To 395 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.519 continue with what John Wayne Gacy does and what the 396 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:06.519 prosecution does. 397 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:14.119 After this, well, I'm trying to think at what stage 398 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.079 you're talking about here. They had been telling him for 399 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.039 a while, and all the while the police are trying 400 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:25.319 to build evidence for a final search warrant they wanted. 401 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.359