Speaker 1: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Jamie Hanshaw and we
Speaker 1: are going to have another episode of gender Wars and
Speaker 1: Weirdness with Father Moses McPherson. He is the priest at
Speaker 1: Holy Mother of God Parish in Austin, Texas, and my
Speaker 1: friend and Jay's friend, and a sigma male. He's transcended
Speaker 1: alpha male into sigma male. He's a very masculine authority
Speaker 1: to appeal to. Because you know, I've been triggered by
Speaker 1: Twitter again and I have this hypothesis about the Biblical
Speaker 1: masculinity and submission posts, and if you'll indulge me, I'm
Speaker 1: going to try and make a case that this is
Speaker 1: really getting weird. Okay, So the whole alpha male phenomenon,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you all know this, probably not
Speaker 1: because you didn't spend time. I'm on four sean in
Speaker 1: the two thousands like I did. But the verbiage that
Speaker 1: they're using, and anytime you see an account on Twitter
Speaker 1: with the words biblical or masculinity or any kind of
Speaker 1: like combination alpha male, this or whatever, it's gonna be whack. Okay,
Speaker 1: because this stuff came from corn and furries specifically. Okay,
Speaker 1: the whole alpha male, beta male, submission subdom. My idea
Speaker 1: is that we are being made to witness some kind
Speaker 1: of public display of fetishism with some of these posts
Speaker 1: and these accounts. I know that's kind of like a
Speaker 1: big thing to say, but like I said, so the
Speaker 1: alpha male comes from Furries and from Korn and from
Speaker 1: for Cheon, and then you have a lot of accounts
Speaker 1: with very very young men like they can't even vote,
Speaker 1: and they're telling in what to do. They're saying you
Speaker 1: need to be this, and that they're telling them to
Speaker 1: shut up right on air, being very disrespectful. And the
Speaker 1: submission language I'm hearing is also very fetishistic with I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody knows what BDSM is, right, So you have a
Speaker 1: dominant and a submissive person and a lot of the
Speaker 1: language in these posts is identical to the sexualization fetish
Speaker 1: And then you have the trad wife aesthetic, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, nothing too crazy, but it's blurring into the
Speaker 1: lines of performative aesthetics. So I know that's a lot
Speaker 1: for the introduction, and I have about twenty questions from
Speaker 1: Twitter to ask you, and because my opinion is getting
Speaker 1: less and less valuable, I feel as time goes on
Speaker 1: as a woman, and that's a weird thing to witness also,
Speaker 1: so I wanted to appeal to male authority. I'm an
Speaker 1: Orthodox Christian. Obviously we are triarchal. I'm not a feminist,
Speaker 1: but I'm not a weirdo either. So that's why I
Speaker 1: brought you on. Because you're a nice, masculine, normal guy.
Speaker 1: You have five sons, you have an incredible wife, you
Speaker 1: have a vibrant household. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: What do you think about my hypothesis there that it's
Speaker 1: getting into sexual fetish areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a couple of things that Obviously a
Speaker 2: lot of the the trad wife stuff, I think you
Speaker 2: use the word performative. That's a that's that's something I
Speaker 2: really resonate with, particularly because you know, I have a
Speaker 2: wife who is a trad wife, I guess if you
Speaker 2: want to say that. And nothing that these people create
Speaker 2: is anything like reality, so you know, it's a total
Speaker 2: I mean, the levels of delusion of having again. And
Speaker 2: with some of it, it's funny because you'll see a
Speaker 2: woman who has like one or two children and then
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, I'm a trad wife and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I watch me bake breakfast or whatever for my husband.
Speaker 2: And then you'll see a whole video on this right
Speaker 2: or there'll be like a three minute or two minute video.
Speaker 2: And I saw one recently and it's like where are
Speaker 2: the kids, Like they're not in the video, so it's
Speaker 2: like we're So it's like either a they're watching TV
Speaker 2: or two you have a nanny because it if your
Speaker 2: kids are awake, they're with you. So that's not reality.
Speaker 2: So you're like, okay, that's first off, you're not making
Speaker 2: traditional breakfast for your husband whatever else. That's nonsense. And
Speaker 2: then number two is a lot of times they only
Speaker 2: have like a couple of kids, and a lot of
Speaker 2: times will be like, oh, I'm gonna have a huge family.
Speaker 2: We're doing this thing, blah blah blah blah blah. And
Speaker 2: you're like, when you have five kids, like you're barely surviving,
Speaker 2: you know, you're not thriving, Like nobody's nobody has five kids,
Speaker 2: and it's like going, oh my goodness, it's like it's
Speaker 2: just so it's so much bliss and wonderfulness. It's just
Speaker 2: not reality. You know, it's literally just a total grind
Speaker 2: and grueling experience, not in a bad way because you
Speaker 2: love your kids, but not in a way where you're
Speaker 2: quote unquote producing content. And then I think a lot
Speaker 2: of the other trad stuff, which is like you know,
Speaker 2: watch us homestead, It's like you're not homesteading unless you
Speaker 2: have a million dollars, Like you're not buying the land.
Speaker 2: You're not building a house, or you're not buying something
Speaker 2: with twenty acres of land and setting up everything to
Speaker 2: try to get it running and operational with lessons. So
Speaker 2: this is like on every level, there are all these
Speaker 2: components that are working behind the scenes that are not
Speaker 2: reflective of reality. There are things that are just not feasible.
Speaker 2: They're literally not possible when you have a family and
Speaker 2: creating content to doing all that stuff is I mean
Speaker 2: just totally frivolous. So I think when you talk about
Speaker 2: that aspect, I think this is what you said, very performative.
Speaker 2: I think when you get into the gender role as
Speaker 2: I see it being expressed, I think that there's a
Speaker 2: very very strong rebound. So we often see this, which
Speaker 2: is you know, the culture dives hard left where it's
Speaker 2: like it's all you know, I mean, you know, if
Speaker 2: you're what you know, if you want to have a
Speaker 2: happy marriage, have a happy wife. You know, happy wife,
Speaker 2: happy life. Never have an you know your wife is
Speaker 2: always right, don't ever disagree. I mean, like all kinds
Speaker 2: of just absurdist statements that make women kind of like
Speaker 2: the center of the universe in your life, and you're
Speaker 2: there to be subservient to her emotional desires and whims
Speaker 2: and whatever else and curtail yourself around her to then
Speaker 2: rebounding on the other side, which is like it's all
Speaker 2: about male domination. So now the wife is just there
Speaker 2: to serve and take care of her husband. And now
Speaker 2: the husband has become the center point or the focal
Speaker 2: point of the relationship. And he's the one who's the
Speaker 2: head of the family. He's in charge, he's the dominant one.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. All you're watching in culture is just rebounds.
Speaker 2: And so you know, when one thing doesn't work, people
Speaker 2: try to overcompensate by creating something else. But it's equally unbalanced.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like and this is a critique from
Speaker 2: Saint John Maximovich where he is writing about the Mother
Speaker 2: of God, and he said, you know, the Protestants go
Speaker 2: so far where they're not even venerating her or showing
Speaker 2: her even any respect. And yet the scripture says like
Speaker 2: every generation will call her blessed. And then you have
Speaker 2: the Catholic side where it's like basically maybe even drifting
Speaker 2: into worship and she becomes kind of this deified or
Speaker 2: divine figure, almost fourth person of the treaty, which is
Speaker 2: also unbalanced. And there's a middle path, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's what we taught. And oftentimes I actually, when I'm
Speaker 2: looking for answers on something, I'll notice the left and
Speaker 2: the right and the imbalance, and then I'll be like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's the what's the middle path? So if the culture
Speaker 2: for the last unteen decades has been going to this
Speaker 2: left path where it's like woman centric or woman dominant,
Speaker 2: and now we're seeing a rebound where men are like, no,
Speaker 2: it's male dominant, and it's and it's about man. Neither
Speaker 2: one of these are correct. Marriage is about the marriage,
Speaker 2: which is both the husband and the wife. The goal
Speaker 2: of the husband's leadership is to create a secure environment
Speaker 2: for the wife so that she can thrive. You don't
Speaker 2: do that by dominating her, you know, And and I've
Speaker 2: preached on this numerous I mean, I've been married for
Speaker 2: twenty two years, and I'm one hundred percent like, uh,
Speaker 2: the husband is ahead of the house. The wife is
Speaker 2: is in submission to him. But I'll tell anybody, look,
Speaker 2: there is maybe two or three three times a year
Speaker 2: where I actually have to tell my wife like, sweetheart,
Speaker 2: I love you and I value your opinion on this,
Speaker 2: but like this is what has to happen, and this
Speaker 2: is what we're doing. I mean, we're talking two three
Speaker 2: times a year. The rest of the time, I'm looking
Speaker 2: for her input, what works for her, how we can
Speaker 2: work together on something, whatever else. Why, Because it's about
Speaker 2: the harmony, and the harmony and the integrity of the
Speaker 2: marriage is two people becoming one. It's not about one
Speaker 2: person becoming dominant over the other person. And the other
Speaker 2: person in kind of this quote unquote submission role where
Speaker 2: they're being they're not just being submissive, they're being dominated.
Speaker 2: You know, my wife is an adult woman. She doesn't
Speaker 2: need me to tell her to do everything. I don't
Speaker 2: need to give my wife a schedule for the day
Speaker 2: or for the week or tell her what she needs
Speaker 2: to get done. She's an adult. Why would I have
Speaker 2: a relationship with it with a woman? With my wife specifically,
Speaker 2: where I'm treating her as if she's an adolescent. And
Speaker 2: I actually see a lot of this language where the
Speaker 2: men are creating kind of a quote unquote and the
Speaker 2: men are not really men, but for the sake of conversation,
Speaker 2: the males are creating this kind of adult adolescent dynamic
Speaker 2: between the two of them where one is dominating the other.
Speaker 2: She she needs me to tell her to do she
Speaker 2: needs me to figure everything out and tell her to
Speaker 2: do things and instruct her and all. It's like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, man, maybe you married like somebody who has,
Speaker 2: you know, developmental problems or something, because like a normal
Speaker 2: human being who's an adult can figure out what to
Speaker 2: do with their week. Well that's the daddy dom Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think that it's it's hard to say because again,
Speaker 2: to be to be fair, I'm not as familiar with
Speaker 2: that aspect of the society, Like I'm just not I'm
Speaker 2: not very familiar with that content. So I would say, like,
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar at all. I don't want to say
Speaker 2: very familiar. Yeah, I'm familiar with that content. So I
Speaker 2: don't know how that content feeds into this. I just don't.
Speaker 2: But I think that it's it seems to be it
Speaker 2: seems to be a rebound effect. Where again, since the
Speaker 2: beginning of time, there has been an attempt at whatever
Speaker 2: you want to say, authority. You know, even this is
Speaker 2: Saint Isaac the Syrian says that, you know, Eve's attempt
Speaker 2: to eat the fruit first was to usurp Adam's authority.
Speaker 2: So we know that this is a temptation for women.
Speaker 2: This does not mean that every woman gives into this.
Speaker 2: We just know that it's a temptation for women to
Speaker 2: try to usurp the authority of their husband. But the
Speaker 2: counterbalance to that is that the husband is so loving, kind, nurturing, manly,
Speaker 2: stable that she finds security and peace in his leadership.
Speaker 2: Thought that he basically manipulates her or stuffs her into
Speaker 2: submission and all these other things. Again, and I saw
Speaker 2: this quote on Twitter recently, which was this guy. He
Speaker 2: didn't even have facial hair. He was like in his
Speaker 2: early twenties or something, which no knock and I got married.
Speaker 2: I didn't have facial hair. I was twenty years old,
Speaker 2: but he was so young, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: my job as the husband is telling my wife basically
Speaker 2: what to do. And then she's supposed to do it,
Speaker 2: and then if I'm wrong, she needs to kind of
Speaker 2: like live with the consequences or whatever. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that's just bad leadership, Like that's not even like that
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with biblical marriage. You're just immature
Speaker 2: and don't understand good leadership. Good leadership in marriage is
Speaker 2: good leadership in any facet of life, which a good
Speaker 2: leader as a servant leader. A good leader is somebody
Speaker 2: that people around them say, that person is looking out
Speaker 2: for my best interest, not their own. They're not selfish,
Speaker 2: they're not self centered, they're not ego to they're actually
Speaker 2: leading because it's the best use of their abilities in
Speaker 2: this dynamic. But they make everybody a winner. And I
Speaker 2: look at a lot of these things that guys are saying,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, these guys are losers. So they're trying
Speaker 2: to dominate somebody as a validation for the fact that
Speaker 2: they don't really have it together and don't really know
Speaker 2: what they're doing. And that's not how you have a marriage,
Speaker 2: at least that's not how you have a marriage that
Speaker 2: lasts long. And in fact, there's a lot of information
Speaker 2: on I'll I'm sorry if I'm going a little bit
Speaker 2: long on this, but there's a there's a person who
Speaker 2: started coming to my church and she was sharing with
Speaker 2: me some of the dynamics that happen within this kind
Speaker 2: of reform tradition where a lot of this is being promulgated,
Speaker 2: and some of the stories that she was telling me
Speaker 2: about people's marriages and the way that this is you
Speaker 2: this is a it's it's they're taking something that is biblical,
Speaker 2: but they're I would say, they're using it really in
Speaker 2: an abusive way. It's abuse of the power because the
Speaker 2: use of the power becomes self serving for the husband,
Speaker 2: it's not for the wife. And that's one of the
Speaker 2: things I would say, is like, you know, I had
Speaker 2: I mean not to go down at Tangent, but like,
Speaker 2: there was a guy that I knew and probably this
Speaker 2: is probably one of the nicest compliments anybody's ever said
Speaker 2: to me, which he said, he's a married guy, had
Speaker 2: had several children, doesn't go to church, but he were
Speaker 2: family friends and he said, like, what do you do?
Speaker 2: He's like, your wife looks at you with a lot
Speaker 2: of respect, like she genuinely like how do you get
Speaker 2: her to do that? And that really stuck with I mean,
Speaker 2: that's probably one of the best compliments anyone's ever paid me.
Speaker 2: But I really thought about him. Like one facet of
Speaker 2: that is the fact that like my wife knows that
Speaker 2: she is the center of like my world. And that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I she knows that I don't feed
Speaker 2: into every whim, desire, feeling, emotion. I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: not my personality. It's not what I do as a
Speaker 2: leader because it's not healthy, right, But she knows that
Speaker 2: the things that I'm doing in the family, my work ethic,
Speaker 2: and the decisions that I make are one hundred percent
Speaker 2: to her benefit and the benefit of the children. So
Speaker 2: she can see very clearly that the leadership model is
Speaker 2: not a pyramid scheme where everybody at the bottom is
Speaker 2: feeding the person at the top and they do the
Speaker 2: least and they get all the benefits. It's the inverted
Speaker 2: triangle right that we see in the church, which is
Speaker 2: the leadership is actually you know, we have that inverted
Speaker 2: triangle like this right in the church, and the leadership
Speaker 2: is actually at the bottom, and the leadership is taking
Speaker 2: all of the pressure and all of the weight to
Speaker 2: carry everybody weaker than them, and they're utilizing all of
Speaker 2: their strengths, gifts, and abilities to be a stable, resting
Speaker 2: place for everybody else in their life. So in twenty
Speaker 2: two years of marriage, I mean, I don't go to
Speaker 2: my wife with my problems. My wife's not my best friend.
Speaker 2: I never use that language, not my best friend. I
Speaker 2: don't go to her with my problems. Why because I
Speaker 2: want her to know I'm always available for her with
Speaker 2: whatever she has going on. I don't. I don't unload
Speaker 2: on her emotionally. I don't complain to her. I don't
Speaker 2: tell her when things go wrong. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: very much a distinct role that we have in the
Speaker 2: relationship where she knows if I have an issue, I
Speaker 2: will take it to another man to help me resolve it.
Speaker 2: So that I'm always available emotionally for her to rely
Speaker 2: on me. Those are some of the dynamics so that
Speaker 2: she sees and then she's like, oh, he's basing his
Speaker 2: life around you know, the good the wellness and the
Speaker 2: good fortune of the family, and the family comes first, right,
Speaker 2: He's not like sending me out to get a job
Speaker 2: so he can buy a boat, or he can have
Speaker 2: an extra vacation every year, or like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I mean, like she sees me working seven days a
Speaker 2: week so that she can stay home with the kids,
Speaker 2: and all those different things, all those components are that
Speaker 2: build the love and the admiration is because a good
Speaker 2: leader loves and sacrifices himself for the people that are
Speaker 2: under his care, and they know that he works harder
Speaker 2: than anybody else. And I just I see so much
Speaker 2: of what's being touted as leadership. It's like it just
Speaker 2: doesn't even meet the criteria. If they were in the
Speaker 2: corporate if they were in the corporate world and they
Speaker 2: espouse some of these ideas about leadership, it would never
Speaker 2: even fly. People would see right through it and just
Speaker 2: say that just sounds like somebody who's selfish and self centered.
Speaker 3: So so you just describe a couple things to me,
Speaker 3: leadership would be like a man has a goal for
Speaker 3: his life, or he has a direction that he's going in,
Speaker 3: and he can have a woman with him who agrees, Yes,
Speaker 3: that's where I want to go too, and I will
Speaker 3: follow you to this goal of you know, a godly.
Speaker 1: Family, or we're going to have an X amount of
Speaker 1: money year, we're going to do you know, this is
Speaker 1: our lives. We're missionary or whatever. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, And.
Speaker 1: It's in contrast to just acquiring someone and telling them
Speaker 1: what to do, right, getting a wife to a lot
Speaker 1: of the complaints that I hear online is like they
Speaker 1: just want someone to do the chores and do the
Speaker 1: childcare and support them free domestic invisible labor they call it.
Speaker 1: So that the man can meet all of his goals
Speaker 1: and get his needs met, and then once he gets
Speaker 1: to a certain level, then he wants to kind of
Speaker 1: level up. And that's why you see people extending getting
Speaker 1: married for a long time, because you know, they they
Speaker 1: call him Bob the builder, like, build my life with me,
Speaker 1: and then once I, you know, become what I want
Speaker 1: to be, then I will get a new woman along
Speaker 1: with my new status and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very it's I mean, it's obviously
Speaker 2: it's dehumanizing, right, I mean, that's like that that's the
Speaker 2: undercurrent which is with a lot of these things. It's dehumanizing.
Speaker 2: It's not treating women as being made in the image
Speaker 2: of God. If you were to actually peel back a
Speaker 2: lot of the onion layers of like what's being said
Speaker 2: and why it's being said, it completely strips women of
Speaker 2: their nobility. That's really what it's about. And I think
Speaker 2: that that comes from the pornography culture. That's what that
Speaker 2: culture does. It creates, It creates, Uh, how do you
Speaker 2: want to put it? Females are an object for my
Speaker 2: own gratification and basically, you know, you know, sexual fulfillment.
Speaker 2: They're not human beings, they're not persons. It's they don't
Speaker 2: have thoughts and feelings. And I think that I think
Speaker 2: some of that out of just the fact that there's
Speaker 2: two things I would say on that. Number one is
Speaker 2: if a man conditions himself to watch a bunch of
Speaker 2: performative things that are dehumanizing to women and only see
Speaker 2: women as one thing, then they're just going to dehumanize
Speaker 2: them all the time and all kinds of different context
Speaker 2: because of that, they're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: understand that. Number two is women are radically complex, vastly
Speaker 2: more complex than us men like, vastly more complex, and
Speaker 2: that complexity is dignified in the fact that it's created.
Speaker 2: It's how a woman is expresses that she's made in
Speaker 2: the image of God. It just is nothing there's nothing
Speaker 2: wrong about the ways in which a woman is created.
Speaker 2: Now that can be manifested in the wrong way. Right,
Speaker 2: So women can be emotional. They have much much more
Speaker 2: sensitive hormones I talked about than the recent video. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're talking on the magnitude of literally hundreds of times
Speaker 2: the hormones that men have, and when it comes to
Speaker 2: estrogens and other things that create very vibrant, almost technicolor
Speaker 2: experiences of life in a way that they kind of
Speaker 2: soak things up in a much deeper way than men do.
Speaker 2: There's nothing negative about that. That's not bad. Now, have
Speaker 2: we all known women who manipulate the people around them
Speaker 2: because of their emotional fragility and because they utilize their
Speaker 2: emotions and their cunningness in a negative way? Yes, we've
Speaker 2: all known people like We've all known women like that.
Speaker 2: We've all known women who marry the most passive man
Speaker 2: on the planet so that she can do whatever she
Speaker 2: wants with him. And it's totally unhealthy and dysfunctional. But
Speaker 2: the core of womanhood is not bad because of that, right,
Speaker 2: and how women express being creating the image of God
Speaker 2: is a good and beautiful thing. It can get out
Speaker 2: of whack, but it's the same thing with being a man. Right,
Speaker 2: we know that men are strong and can be and
Speaker 2: can be strong leadership types. And yet we know lots
Speaker 2: of men who have utilized their power, influence, and position
Speaker 2: to manipulate and subjugate other people. It's the misuse of
Speaker 2: what was created in the image of God. So the
Speaker 2: core facets of a woman are not they're not bad,
Speaker 2: they're not malformed. They're made in the image of God.
Speaker 2: They're beautiful and wonderful. The problem is most men really cultivating, loving,
Speaker 2: nourishing and bringing along a woman is literally beyond their
Speaker 2: skill set, and they don't know how to handle it.
Speaker 2: And they don't know how to handle a real woman.
Speaker 2: They don't know how to connect with them while correcting them,
Speaker 2: without without validating them, without you know, subjugating them. You
Speaker 2: know that there's this love and this trust that happens
Speaker 2: in marriage, even to the point where you know, I
Speaker 2: you know that, even to the point now at twenty
Speaker 2: two years of marriage where my wife is like, just
Speaker 2: please help me to understand this and what I need
Speaker 2: to do now. Did my wife do that in the
Speaker 2: first year or two of marriage. No, of course not.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not what happens in marriage. In fact,
Speaker 2: I probably need to make a video at some point.
Speaker 2: But there is a whole process in marriage really where
Speaker 2: a woman grows in her trust and love and admiration
Speaker 2: for her husband. And it takes time, it really does.
Speaker 2: We live in a fallen world where there can be
Speaker 2: a distrustful element that kind of seeps its way into
Speaker 2: marriage that women are concerned about. The point being with
Speaker 2: all of that, which is back to this issue of
Speaker 2: coorn and how that affects people. You know, when a
Speaker 2: man does not when a man is not able to
Speaker 2: enjoy and interact with the woman and she cannot express
Speaker 2: herself as a normal woman with the kind of technicolor
Speaker 2: experience of what it is to interact with the woman,
Speaker 2: he's trying to turn her into somebody that's black and white.
Speaker 2: M hm. So she cleans, she cleans, she up keeps,
Speaker 2: and then she gives them, you know, sex, and that's it,
Speaker 2: and that's what she's good for, and that's you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's incredibly dehumanizing, is what it is, which
Speaker 2: is what corn is. Corn Is is dehumanizing. They take
Speaker 2: somebody who's creating the image of God, who could become
Speaker 2: a saint, who could become deified with the Holy Spirit,
Speaker 2: and makes them basically, you know, an icon of the
Speaker 2: devil and a means by which the passions of lust
Speaker 2: are are fed and fermented into a person's soul. It's atrocious.
Speaker 1: So it's being positive, and I think it's because of
Speaker 1: like the corn culture and just this is the paradigm
Speaker 1: that this generation views women in. Now, it's being positive
Speaker 1: that evil comes into the world through women. How can
Speaker 1: you refute that?
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. It reminds me of a story,
Speaker 2: and it's so good. It's so good it highlights us.
Speaker 2: When I was in college, we went to a small
Speaker 2: Dutch Neil Calvinist college called Redeemer up in Canada, and
Speaker 2: I think it was a woman's dorm. Uh. And they
Speaker 2: had written on the window on the first floor. So
Speaker 2: there's like kind of like two story apartment building dorms
Speaker 2: kind of things or houses. They were like houses, I guess,
Speaker 2: I think. Anyways, and somebody had written on the window
Speaker 2: where would man be without woman? Without women? Question mark?
Speaker 2: And then another a guy had come up and wrote
Speaker 2: in another marker the garden.
Speaker 1: Oh uh huh.
Speaker 2: So it was like so, but it was like, this
Speaker 2: is actually the highlight of everything that's wrong with the
Speaker 2: Garden of Eden. Right, so like women are like they
Speaker 2: see themselves as being self referential, as like the height
Speaker 2: of all creation. And the man, he doesn't take responsibility
Speaker 2: for the fact that like men would not be in
Speaker 2: the garden. Men didn't lose the garden because of women. Right,
Speaker 2: that's Adam's whole problem twofold. According to the fathers, number
Speaker 2: one is that he blames Eve, so he doesn't take responsibility.
Speaker 2: And then number two, the father say he doesn't repent.
Speaker 2: In fact, when Christ initially the preincarnate logos in the
Speaker 2: garden questions Adam and Eve, the fathers as they say,
Speaker 2: it's a period of time before he returns, and they
Speaker 2: actually get expelled from the garden. They said, if in
Speaker 2: that time Adam and Eve had repented, they would have
Speaker 2: remained in the garden, but they failed to repent, and
Speaker 2: in fact Adams Adam's response is this all happened because
Speaker 2: you God gave me the woman. So if you notice
Speaker 2: this is the distinction between a good leader and a
Speaker 2: bad leader, right, A good leader takes responsibility for their decisions.
Speaker 2: A bad leader pawns those decisions off on another person
Speaker 2: or blames another person. So is it surprising that men
Speaker 2: today are still blaming women for everything that's wrong. No,
Speaker 2: because that's that is that is men, in their weakness,
Speaker 2: failing to take responsibility for their maturation who they are.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing because men are like, I've we
Speaker 2: don on this recently. Men are like, we are the
Speaker 2: most powerful. But then they also go, well, but women
Speaker 2: are subjecting us or subjugating us, Right, who's the most powerful?
Speaker 1: Then yes, you don't see what the top of the dominance,
Speaker 1: hierarchy and the.
Speaker 2: Ass right, you don't get to be a victim at
Speaker 2: the top, because that means that somebody else is really
Speaker 2: at the top. The whole thought process is like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm the top, but women are so mean and bad
Speaker 2: they like get me, and then they're doing this to me,
Speaker 2: and now I'm a victim. It's like, well, then women
Speaker 2: are the most powerful, so that it actually proves your point.
Speaker 2: So the only way for you to really counteract that
Speaker 2: is to say men are the most powerful. The men
Speaker 2: today are terrible at leadership and understanding and leading women,
Speaker 2: and so because of that, we've created a dynamic where
Speaker 2: women are usurping men's authority because men are pathetic. So
Speaker 2: men are supposed to be here, but they're and women.
Speaker 2: So if you look at objectively, men are supposed to
Speaker 2: be here. Women are supposed to be here more in
Speaker 2: their roles, not in their worth. There's a difference. Men
Speaker 2: and women are both creating the image of God and
Speaker 2: have equal value. But men are created to have this
Speaker 2: particular role of leadership. Women are created to have this
Speaker 2: particular role of following. But because men are poor leaders,
Speaker 2: they they end up subjecting themselves to the leadership of women.
Speaker 2: And why does that happen? This is the number one thing.
Speaker 2: Why does that happen? Because men don't follow God. If
Speaker 2: men follow The number one thing that you see probably
Speaker 2: in relationships, right, this is a little off the cuff,
Speaker 2: but a little number one thing you kind of see
Speaker 2: is you see women manipulating men. Women are more are
Speaker 2: in when it comes to psychological conversations, the use of
Speaker 2: emotion and the use of words, women are vastly more
Speaker 2: superior than men. They have a better vocabulary, they have
Speaker 2: a better grasp on their feelings, they have all these
Speaker 2: different things that they have like a whole tool chest
Speaker 2: at their disposal, right when it comes to communication, and
Speaker 2: they tend to be superior communicators in this realm of
Speaker 2: interpersonal dynamics. Okay, men are superior when you're communicating about
Speaker 2: war strategy, chess engineering, or whatever else. But when it
Speaker 2: comes to interpersonal dynamics, women are far superior. Men do
Speaker 2: not know how to engage that in a normal, healthy
Speaker 2: way and still remain a kind of in their position
Speaker 2: as the leader. They don't know how to do that
Speaker 2: because they don't subject themselves to God. They don't have
Speaker 2: that grace from God in order to be a good leader.
Speaker 2: The thing is, a man cannot be a good man
Speaker 2: without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And so men
Speaker 2: think that they're going to be men and leaders and
Speaker 2: all this without the grace of the Holy Spirit, and
Speaker 2: it doesn't work. They can't do it because they because
Speaker 2: they become intimidated, they become afraid, they don't know what
Speaker 2: to say, they don't know how to control themselves, They
Speaker 2: overreact emotionally, they don't know how to communicate well. Right.
Speaker 2: All of those are a byproduct of the fact that
Speaker 2: they are They are underdeveloped in the primary areas that
Speaker 2: they're underdeveloped with God. If their relationship with God was
Speaker 2: in the right place, their relationship with their wife would
Speaker 2: be in the right place.
Speaker 1: As well, And we do a lot of our work
Speaker 1: in research about how this was designed to be this
Speaker 1: way on purpose to raise people in a very narcissistic way,
Speaker 1: in a way that they have you know, arrested development
Speaker 1: in this aon of Horus they call it. So everybody
Speaker 1: is going to be childish, nobody's going to be mature
Speaker 1: enough to actually be the type of person that it
Speaker 1: should be in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Well, I mean one of the things that
Speaker 2: one of the things that men are afraid of men
Speaker 2: are men fall into people pleasing. They fall into people pleasing,
Speaker 2: and they want to make women happy. And so that's
Speaker 2: not a bad thing that men want to make women happy.
Speaker 2: That's a that's not a bad vulnerability. But what ends
Speaker 2: up happening is they become intimidated by the emotions that
Speaker 2: they experience when they don't make a woman happy, and
Speaker 2: so they're not able to differentiate themselves in good decisions
Speaker 2: from the negative experience. A good healthy man has an
Speaker 2: emotional stability that's on his own. He's already locked in,
Speaker 2: and so he's able to kind of weather the storms
Speaker 2: sometimes of what maybe his wife in a more vulnerable
Speaker 2: state or given over to an emotional at temptation will
Speaker 2: throw at him. How do men become like that? Well,
Speaker 2: they have to have a relationship with God. They have
Speaker 2: to become stabilized. They have to become normal and healthy men.
Speaker 2: If not, then they then they're just they're they're tossed
Speaker 2: to and fro. You know, I've experienced this so many
Speaker 2: times as a priest. I mean, I'll have a woman
Speaker 2: who comes to me. Typically it's it's women whose husbands
Speaker 2: don't come to church, and they'll ask me to do
Speaker 2: something or want something or whatever else. And sometimes it's
Speaker 2: reasonable and I can say yes, and sometimes it's unreasonable.
Speaker 2: It's just it's a request, it's not that's not going
Speaker 2: to be able to be fulfilled. And they will try
Speaker 2: to hold it against me emotionally, as if they're upset
Speaker 2: with me, and as if I should care that they're
Speaker 2: upset with me, And that usually is hard for them because,
Speaker 2: as they find out really quick, I don't care if
Speaker 2: they're upset with me. I'm like, look, first off, my
Speaker 2: wife doesn't manipulate me like this. Second off, you're using
Speaker 2: a manipulation that you use on your husband because it works.
Speaker 2: And third, you need to be an adult and we
Speaker 2: need to have a normal adult adult relationship where we
Speaker 2: can agree and disagree on things. But I have to
Speaker 2: remain the priest. So there's times where I have to
Speaker 2: tell you things that you know, I simply cannot do
Speaker 2: or they're practical or whatever else or not within my
Speaker 2: purview as a priest. That's it. But this manipulation that
Speaker 2: women do, which is a default, right, women kind of
Speaker 2: default to it is very hard for men to combat
Speaker 2: unless they have, you know, a kind of an emotional
Speaker 2: integrity that is separated from them. Right. Men default to
Speaker 2: a passivity. This is a problem with men, which is
Speaker 2: they become intimidated and they and they and they default
Speaker 2: a passivity or they or they overcompensate to super aggression, right,
Speaker 2: and they get kind of wild on either way. Either
Speaker 2: way they're like, Okay, just tell me what to do, honey,
Speaker 2: or they're like, you're not going to tell me to
Speaker 2: do anything. I'm crazy. Right, And there needs to be
Speaker 2: that center point, but you don't get there without God.
Speaker 2: You can't get into that centered place as a man
Speaker 2: without God's grace. You're just not going to get there.
Speaker 2: It's not going to happen like it's just not going
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker 1: So anyways, you're absolutely right about all of that, and
Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is a complete and total collapse
Speaker 1: of riz and romance. So I wanted to talk to
Speaker 1: you about romance because this is something going around. They
Speaker 1: are saying that romance is something broke men made up
Speaker 1: in order to extract resources from naive women. Now, this
Speaker 1: is something I don't want to hear because I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm a romantic person. You know, I like love
Speaker 1: and sweetness and bunnies and hearts, and you know, I
Speaker 1: want a healthy relationship. Is romance faith? I mean, when
Speaker 1: you go into an Orthodox church, that's a very romantic place, right,
Speaker 1: It's adorned with gold and jewels and pictures of your
Speaker 1: loved ones, and there's candles, there's flowers, you're kissing everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, how can it get more romantic than that?
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's one of those things again,
Speaker 2: is like we just EXPI I think men and women
Speaker 2: like experience things so radically different that one of the
Speaker 2: healthiest things that we can do, which we've not been
Speaker 2: able to do in our society, is let each other
Speaker 2: just be ourselves. So right in seventeen years or whatever
Speaker 2: being Orthodox. I've never thought that the Orthodox Church was romantic.
Speaker 2: But when you say it, I go, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: She's a woman. That's where she sees.
Speaker 1: That's where you get married, that's where you take your Maria.
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful thing. But see, that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: I'll never see it that way, right, I'll just never
Speaker 2: see I talked to a guy yesterday on the phone
Speaker 2: who's coming to Orthodoxy, and he said, I've been listening
Speaker 2: to Orthodox trant and he said it's like battle hymns.
Speaker 2: And I was like, and I was laughing, but I
Speaker 2: was thinking, no woman describes Orthodox chances battle hymns. They don't. Right.
Speaker 2: We have things within us that resonate with us. It's
Speaker 2: not a it's not a it's not an objective, and
Speaker 2: it's not a good or bad. It's very much subjective
Speaker 2: to who we are creating the image of God. And
Speaker 2: that's not a bad thing. Right. So like when we
Speaker 2: talk about romance, it's like, I'm not really a romantic person,
Speaker 2: like most men are not, like the majority of men
Speaker 2: are not. But I want to do things for my
Speaker 2: wife because I love and adore my wife, and they
Speaker 2: speak to my wife in that way, right, So so
Speaker 2: we express it's very very very very clear. We express
Speaker 2: affection for each other in ways that we want that
Speaker 2: same affection be expressed to us, but we're so different
Speaker 2: that we don't really do it, right. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is why so much of the confusion around the genders
Speaker 2: happens is because I think what happened in our society
Speaker 2: is like one we've been constantly trying to dominate each
Speaker 2: other and not exist harmoniously. But for us to exist
Speaker 2: harmoniously within the church, we really have to allow each
Speaker 2: other to be ourselves. And so you know, an example
Speaker 2: of that when you talk about romance is unlike any
Speaker 2: man who's been married for more than a minute knows
Speaker 2: that his wife loves romance. And that's an expression of
Speaker 2: who she is as a woman. It just is. And
Speaker 2: that's a fine thing. There's nothing wrong with that. That's
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. That's like, I mean, you know, to
Speaker 2: this day, there was a there is an anniversary. I
Speaker 2: hope my wife doesn't see this. There is an anniversary
Speaker 2: where I like planned this trip, I like created a
Speaker 2: map and we went to all these different places and
Speaker 2: did all these different things. To this day, she still
Speaker 2: remembers the anniversary. She doesn't remember any of the other
Speaker 2: ones right because it was like, oh my goodness, that
Speaker 2: was just we did this and we did that, and
Speaker 2: we'd like there was so many different things that we
Speaker 2: did and that was like, you know why, because that's
Speaker 2: that speaks to her soul. Do I remember that as
Speaker 2: being significant? No, No, it's just why I'm not really romantic.
Speaker 2: I just don't care about those things. It doesn't speak
Speaker 2: to me at all. Is that a bad thing, No,
Speaker 2: it's just it's it's uh, it's just who we are,
Speaker 2: right like the other For instance, I'll give you another example.
Speaker 2: The other night, we were lifting weights in the garage
Speaker 2: and my wife brought the baby out front and we were,
Speaker 2: I don't know, doing something. We were deadlifting and she
Speaker 2: had to bring the baby upfront to get to the
Speaker 2: car or something like that, and I said, hey, watch
Speaker 2: me hit this deadlift. And I hit this super fast
Speaker 2: deadlift and was just like all amped and the guys
Speaker 2: were like, everybody's pumped up. She's like, that's great, And
Speaker 2: then she sent me a text She's like, good job
Speaker 2: on the deadlift. That looked great or something.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: I just like it you know, it's like it's like
Speaker 2: none of the guys are like, oh, yeah, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Nobody's like, oh, like that was really
Speaker 2: good father, you know, that's that right. But your wife
Speaker 2: does that right because she's being sweet and cuddly and
Speaker 2: kind for the same way that she wants that to
Speaker 2: be shown to her. That's fine, that's fine. I think
Speaker 2: that this is the thing that I that I look
Speaker 2: at with a lot of what the men are talking
Speaker 2: about is they're like, oh, these things about women are preposterous,
Speaker 2: and it's like they're not. They're just women. There's nothing
Speaker 2: abnormal or weird about them. Like and like I love women,
Speaker 2: so like, you know, like they liked the chit chat.
Speaker 2: Like for instance, I work out three days a week
Speaker 2: with two of my godsons. I mean we probably have
Speaker 2: you know, we probably use sub five hundred words the
Speaker 2: whole work out for two hours. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: If there is something that's said, it's probably maybe hypothetically
Speaker 2: to make fun of somebody or whatever else, or to
Speaker 2: like tease somebody or to like push somebody right to
Speaker 2: do something. Why is that? Because we're men and we're
Speaker 2: just being men doing man stuff and that's what we enjoy,
Speaker 2: you know. And then on Tuesday nights the women will
Speaker 2: come over to our house for the women's group, and
Speaker 2: you know there's times where we just chitchat for like
Speaker 2: an hour straight on just whatever, and it's just small talk,
Speaker 2: conversation whatever else. Why is that women love that stuff
Speaker 2: if they just do nothing wrong with that? Just nothing
Speaker 2: wrong with that at all. And I think that's what
Speaker 2: I think. The part that irritates me today is that
Speaker 2: like people are trying to create all these hard boundaries
Speaker 2: of like I don't know what's acceptable based on their
Speaker 2: own gender, and it's like, oh, like what men are
Speaker 2: doing is completely normal for men, and what women are
Speaker 2: doing is completely normal for women. That's why we see
Speaker 2: so many similarities in what people are doing, right, like
Speaker 2: it because it comes natural. It's not a fake thing.
Speaker 2: So anyways, romance is one of those things. It's just
Speaker 2: women love it. They love it, you know.
Speaker 1: Is it could it be like a form of you know,
Speaker 1: asceticism or like, h I mean that's the purpose of
Speaker 1: marriage is to serve somebody else right in the way
Speaker 1: that they feel. Yeah, so let's talk about that for
Speaker 1: a second. What is the purpose? Because people are abandoning
Speaker 1: the entire institution at a very alarming rate. And I
Speaker 1: want to ask you some more questions specifically about that,
Speaker 1: but let's just go over real quick. What is the
Speaker 1: purpose of getting married?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the purpose of being married, fundamentally is
Speaker 2: to be deified, to become like Christ. Right, So the
Speaker 2: marriage works as kind of a background. You know, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a gym. Why do you own a gym.
Speaker 2: You own a gym to get strong and to get
Speaker 2: big and get into shape. You don't own a gym
Speaker 2: for the sake of having a gym. That's not the
Speaker 2: point of having the gym is to have a gym. Right,
Speaker 2: So the purpose of the marriage is not to have
Speaker 2: a marriage. The purpose of the marriage is that it
Speaker 2: would be transformative for the two of you to make
Speaker 2: both of you more into the image of Christ. And
Speaker 2: so all of the disagreements, all of the hardships, the
Speaker 2: asceticisms of self denial, all of the facets that go
Speaker 2: into marriage are the training ground for making you more
Speaker 2: like Christ. That's why we have the crowns of martyrdom.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's an ironic thing, right, we have the
Speaker 2: crowns of martyrdom and then I just did a wedding
Speaker 2: yesterday actually ironically. But you have the crowns of martyrdom
Speaker 2: that you wear during your service, right in your marriage
Speaker 2: service in the Orthodox Church, when people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's king and queen or prince and princess, and it's
Speaker 2: like romantic, it's not. It's crowns of martyrdom. Well, the
Speaker 2: next question is who's martyring you? That's the person standing
Speaker 2: right all right? Why? Because they get impatient with you,
Speaker 2: they get selfish, they do this, they say something unkind.
Speaker 2: You've got to turn the other cheek. You've got to
Speaker 2: forgive them seventy times seven. You've got to love them. Right.
Speaker 2: All of the beatitudes get into all of the Gospel
Speaker 2: of Christ and all of his teachings, and the beatitudes
Speaker 2: come into play in the marriage when you love that
Speaker 2: other person who at times feels like an enemy, and
Speaker 2: that's normal. That's like a normal marriage where those things happen.
Speaker 2: And in that process you learn to love God and
Speaker 2: you learn to love them more than you love yourself.
Speaker 2: And the marriage and that's what the marriage is complete
Speaker 2: in and of itself, that's what it is now as
Speaker 2: it comes to creating a family, which we know is
Speaker 2: one of the primary aspects of the marriage service. Even
Speaker 2: right when we read all yesterday I married a couple
Speaker 2: in their I want to say their late forties or so.
Speaker 2: But they're not having their past having children maybe early fifties. Okay,
Speaker 2: they're not having kiddos anymore. And they've already been married
Speaker 2: for a couple of years and they're not having kiddos.
Speaker 2: All the prayers in the service are still about having kids.
Speaker 2: You know, there's hunting prayers in the service about having children.
Speaker 2: What is the purpose of having a family again, it's
Speaker 2: to expand on that asceticism that's self denial in whatever else.
Speaker 2: But what else does the service talk about? The service
Speaker 2: also talks about whatever rich bounty you experience in the marriage,
Speaker 2: that you would take care of other people. And so
Speaker 2: for this couple yesterday, when I gave the homily at
Speaker 2: the end, I said, look, the two of you are
Speaker 2: like pillars in our community. We can rely on you.
Speaker 2: You're trustworthy. They have God children in the church, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. They have an example to set
Speaker 2: by their marriage. Right. So, some people within marriage are
Speaker 2: blessed with the family, and sometimes for various reasons, people
Speaker 2: are not blessed with the family. The point is is
Speaker 2: that the marriage is still about deification, and the marriage
Speaker 2: is still supposed to be a platform or a springboard
Speaker 2: for blessing the people around us. So if we're not
Speaker 2: we if we're not raising children because that's not a
Speaker 2: part of our marriage, we should still be working hard
Speaker 2: to raise the other children in the parish. We still
Speaker 2: should be offering help to the people in the parish
Speaker 2: who have kids. We should be volunteering our time to
Speaker 2: babysit or to do this or to do that. Or
Speaker 2: we see somebody struggling financially, going well, hey, we don't
Speaker 2: have kids, we'll help them out financially. We'll do these
Speaker 2: different things. Right, So, when somebody has kids, all of
Speaker 2: their energy and to focus and attention goes to the
Speaker 2: kids within the marriage, and all of that is for
Speaker 2: their salvation. But fundamentally, with or without children, the marriage
Speaker 2: is about blessing the family of God. That's what it's about.
Speaker 2: The two of you are supposed to become even more
Speaker 2: rooted and grounded in your faith. In fact, there's even
Speaker 2: that beautiful story. I can't remember who it was, but
Speaker 2: it was a saint who had I can't remember how
Speaker 2: many children. She had, five or ten children or something,
Speaker 2: and then a plague came through everyone in her family died,
Speaker 2: all of her children died, and then she adopted all
Speaker 2: of the children that were lost after the plague, became
Speaker 2: the mother to all of them. And then there's also
Speaker 2: like Saint Ea in Ireland who is called the Mother
Speaker 2: of Saints because she was a monastic at a at
Speaker 2: an orphanage, and then a number of the boys and
Speaker 2: trusted to do her care became saints. She became a saint.
Speaker 2: Also Ida e Man I can't remember, but she's an
Speaker 2: Irish saint. The point is is that like in whatever
Speaker 2: place that we find ourselves, in marriage with or without children,
Speaker 2: with or without a family, everything about the marriage is
Speaker 2: to sanctify us, to make us less concerned with ourselves,
Speaker 2: more concerned with the church family, and to take care
Speaker 2: and to bless the people around us. That's what marriage
Speaker 2: is about. And the irony is all of our teaching
Speaker 2: in our society is the more that you make life
Speaker 2: about yourself, the more fulfilled you'll be. And the and
Speaker 2: this is a complete contradiction of the Gospel. The more
Speaker 2: that you make your life about Christ the more that
Speaker 2: your life is fulfilled, the more that you make your
Speaker 2: life about other people, the more fulfilled you are. The
Speaker 2: most selfish people are one hundred percent the most miserable people,
Speaker 2: the most selfless, giving generous people in the church one
Speaker 2: hundred percent are always the happiest, best adjusted, most wonderful
Speaker 2: to be around people. It's just the way that it is,
Speaker 2: you know. It's like Christ says, whoever loses their life
Speaker 2: shall gain it. So the person who's trying to keep
Speaker 2: their life compartmentalized and tucked away and meet and tidy
Speaker 2: and all to themselves, those are the people who always
Speaker 2: struggle with the most with neuroticism and OCD and and
Speaker 2: you know, self love and selfishness and fear of finances
Speaker 2: and all this. And the people who just give it
Speaker 2: all away are the people who live with the most
Speaker 2: freedom and the most joy and the most love. They
Speaker 2: are always the people you want to emulate in the church.
Speaker 1: So the primary purpose is the salvation, and then the
Speaker 1: family or the children is sort of a secondary outcome
Speaker 1: of the marriage.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I mean it's a natural it is quote
Speaker 2: unquote a natural extension of the marriage. Okay, it doesn't happen,
Speaker 2: but it is part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying this because on Twitter, on the Internet,
Speaker 1: there's a big push for you know, getting married, to
Speaker 1: start a family for this express purpose of having children.
Speaker 1: And then it gets weird when they start calling women
Speaker 1: too old in their twenties. You know, you're twenty five,
Speaker 1: you're past your prime for having kids, and they call
Speaker 1: them things like you're an empty egg carton. And then
Speaker 1: you see them advocating for large age gap relationships. So
Speaker 1: this is a hot issue that they've been talking about.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the manuscript people are pushing for
Speaker 1: overseas relationships, they call it passport bros. And large age
Speaker 1: gap relationships up to you know, twenty twenty five years.
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to get your opinion on that.
Speaker 1: I have my own opinions on those things, but I
Speaker 1: know those type of marriages can be blessed, but they
Speaker 1: also have their unique challenges too.
Speaker 2: Well. I mean, one thing we should be clear on
Speaker 2: is that anything more than a sixteen year gap between
Speaker 2: husband and wife within the Orthodox Church requires a blessing
Speaker 2: from the bishop. I see, Okay, so that's an abnormality.
Speaker 2: So for a woman to be fourteen years older than
Speaker 2: the husband is an abnormality. And for the husband to
Speaker 2: be more than sixteen years older than the wife is
Speaker 2: an abnormality. And why is it Because those are traditional
Speaker 2: ages that people had children. Right, Well, if the husband
Speaker 2: is sixteen years older than the wife, technically he's old
Speaker 2: enough to be her father. So I mean, this stuff
Speaker 2: doesn't really surprise me because man's hearts are wicked and
Speaker 2: they're warped, you know, and they're not looking again, they're
Speaker 2: not looking for people. They're looking for a scenario or
Speaker 2: something idealized. But it's very divorced from humanity. It's divorced
Speaker 2: from realction. So in that way, I'm like, it's just
Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me. I think it's just I think
Speaker 2: it's just part of the kind of illness of the society.
Speaker 2: It's a manifestation of the illness of like again, trying
Speaker 2: to find your happiness or this or that or whatever
Speaker 2: in something like this again, this kind of quote unquote
Speaker 2: traad lifestyle. Wait, people have three kids, and then there'll
Speaker 2: be all the people saying, you know, you're better off
Speaker 2: not having kids. Like trust me, Like the five years
Speaker 2: down the line when people start having kids and they
Speaker 2: realize how much work it is and how brutal it
Speaker 2: is and everything else and how hard it is. These
Speaker 2: people are trying to escape responsibility, not embrace responsibility. So
Speaker 2: they're going to find out pretty quick that, you know,
Speaker 2: having kids is not the solution. And we see that
Speaker 2: actually is funny enough. We see that with the boomers.
Speaker 2: The boomers had kids not because they wanted kids, They
Speaker 2: had kids because they thought they should have kids. Now
Speaker 2: you have kind of a different pelum where people go, oh,
Speaker 2: if you have kids, it's going to make you happy
Speaker 2: and fulfill you and do all this, and it's like,
Speaker 2: that's that's not human beings don't fulfill you. They just don't.
Speaker 2: They're wonderful. I mean, I love all the people around me,
Speaker 2: but they don't fulfill me. They don't make me feel complete,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Like I was complete as
Speaker 2: complete as I am now before I ever had kids.
Speaker 1: Christ is when it completes us, right.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Yeah, it's not other people a
Speaker 2: marriage doesn't. I mean again, that's another red flag when
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, if I just get married, then
Speaker 2: I'll be like whole or complete or I'll be happy.
Speaker 2: How many people I see to go, oh, I'll be
Speaker 2: happy when I get married, and it's like, you're not
Speaker 2: going to be happy when you get married, and sure
Speaker 2: enough they're not happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is so the idea of like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll have kids and then I'll be happy, or then
Speaker 2: our marriage will be better or then this, or it's
Speaker 2: like it doesn't work like that. And you know, as
Speaker 2: the boomers found out, which people don't seem to kind
Speaker 2: of have missed that lesson in history, which was children
Speaker 2: don't make you happy, don't fulfill you, they don't make
Speaker 2: you complete, they don't do whatever. They're an absolute ton
Speaker 2: of hard work and you can never spend enough time
Speaker 2: with them because you've got all kinds of other especially
Speaker 2: as a husband, you've got all kinds of other engagements
Speaker 2: that you have to participate in in order to make
Speaker 2: money for the family. So you spend periods of time
Speaker 2: with them. But they're humans, and they have they have
Speaker 2: exaggerated faults at times, you know, overly dramatic. They're exceptionally
Speaker 2: needy and all these other things. It's all good because
Speaker 2: if you're there to serve them and love them, it's fine.
Speaker 2: But they're not there to serve you or make your
Speaker 2: life better. You know, someone when a kid wakes up
Speaker 2: at two in the morning and their bed sheet is
Speaker 2: like covered in vomit, like, they're not there to make
Speaker 2: you feel great about your life. You're there to get
Speaker 2: them out of bed, not wake your wife up because
Speaker 2: she's got a baby or whatever else. You're gonna clean
Speaker 2: off the blanket, You're gonna get them showered, you're gonna
Speaker 2: fix the bed, take care of them, and then put
Speaker 2: them back to sleep. And then an hour later they're
Speaker 2: gonna wake up and vomit and do the whole thing
Speaker 2: over again. And then you're gonna do that three or
Speaker 2: four times in a night. Then the next night the
Speaker 2: other kid is gonna start throwing up, and then you're
Speaker 2: gonna do that for four or five nights at a time.
Speaker 2: That's not like, oh man, this is the beat. I
Speaker 2: love being a dad. It's the best experience ever, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's live. I love my kids. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's where it gets weird is that people are like,
Speaker 2: it's so divorced. I just think it's so divorced from
Speaker 2: the person that it's all become everything becomes an idea
Speaker 2: of you know what I mean. And I think the
Speaker 2: other thing is too, where goes like, oh, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have a huge family. I always like pump the brakes,
Speaker 2: wait till you have your third kid and then we'll like,
Speaker 2: we'll see what really happens, you know.
Speaker 1: M hm. A lot of this too, I think comes
Speaker 1: from the evolutionary biology ideology of the red pill and
Speaker 1: the manosphere. I mean, they all believe in evolution. They
Speaker 1: believe that it's your only imperative is to spread your
Speaker 1: seed before you die. And that's where they get these
Speaker 1: ideas that you know, you have to have as many
Speaker 1: children as possible, as soon as possible, and the child
Speaker 1: bearing years for men and women is different, so like
Speaker 1: it's okay for a forty five year old to marry
Speaker 1: you know, a twenty year old because he can still
Speaker 1: reproduce and she has you know, a shelf life. But
Speaker 1: then this goes into their ideas about you know, infidelity,
Speaker 1: adultery and cheating too, because they are still in that
Speaker 1: evolutionary mindset, which you agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think these people have very I mean again,
Speaker 2: it's a very whacked out and poisonous thought process. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is for all of us in
Speaker 2: fifty to one hundred years. Nobody's gonna remember us, right,
Speaker 2: so to fight against that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's jump into some like actual Twitter questions.
Speaker 1: These are mine, But like, should men be able to cheat?
Speaker 2: I mean not if you want to have a good,
Speaker 2: loving relationship with your wife? I mean, yeah, Is.
Speaker 1: It different when men cheat than when women cheat?
Speaker 2: I do think that there's different. How can I put this? No,
Speaker 2: I mean no, there's there's no difference. I think that
Speaker 2: I do think that the culture is probably right in
Speaker 2: assessing that men tend to cheat due to lust and
Speaker 2: manifestations of lust that they've cultivated in their heart, and
Speaker 2: women cheat for more of the affirmation, attention, romantic side
Speaker 2: of things that they're looking for. I do think that
Speaker 2: the culture probably understands that. But it's one worse than
Speaker 2: the other, or more damaging to the relationship then the other.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, the whole premise of
Speaker 2: a wife's relationship with her husband is that the husband
Speaker 2: has to be the one man that she can trust.
Speaker 2: So if a man cheats, the relationship is dead in
Speaker 2: the water. She knows fundamentally she can never trust him.
Speaker 2: Now Likewise, a husband has the sense with his wife
Speaker 2: that she's the one person in the world that's devoted
Speaker 2: to him. And if she cheats, then obviously that destroys
Speaker 2: that narrative for their marriage and for their relationship. So
Speaker 2: both are equally catastrophic.
Speaker 1: What if she gains weight in the marriage or becomes unattractive,
Speaker 1: is she not fulfilling her wifely duties.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be honest with you and I'll say
Speaker 2: I think both people have a responsibility in the marriage
Speaker 2: to maintain a similar physique to what they brought into
Speaker 2: the marriage. I think that's a responsibility. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't think that it's acceptable for men to get
Speaker 2: super out of shape and out of weight and everything else.
Speaker 2: It's not healthy, it's not good, it's not attractive. I
Speaker 2: likewise don't think that it's that it's that, you know, again,
Speaker 2: if the sub context to all this is that we
Speaker 2: love each other and that we're trying to do the
Speaker 2: best for each other, then I think it's a no
Speaker 2: brainer that a wife should strive to maintain a similar
Speaker 2: physique to what she had when she got married. Within reason, right, Like,
Speaker 2: my wife has had five kids within the last ten years,
Speaker 2: and obviously there are physical changes that take place just
Speaker 2: based on the fact that you've had five kids and
Speaker 2: ten years and I'm very very attracted to her, and
Speaker 2: she's done a phenomenal job, you know, staying very similar
Speaker 2: to how she was when we first met. I think
Speaker 2: that's important. I don't think that you can. Attraction is
Speaker 2: something that's very important in a marriage, just is it's
Speaker 2: very important that you're attracted to the person that you're
Speaker 2: married to. I think that we create a false narrative
Speaker 2: when we say, oh, you know, we should just be
Speaker 2: you know, accepting of I don't know whatever, you know one.
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it this way. If somebody goes
Speaker 2: and gains let's say seventy five pounds, well they've done
Speaker 2: that because they've been un self controlled, they've not exercised,
Speaker 2: they've not taken so right, so they've kind of neglected themselves.
Speaker 2: And then the response to that is we should just
Speaker 2: accept it, and it's like, well, you should still love them.
Speaker 2: The love and the nurture should be paramount. Obviously, you
Speaker 2: want to be in a marriage where if somebody does
Speaker 2: put on some extra weight, which can happen, you converse
Speaker 2: about it in a healthy, normal way and say, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, this is kind of what's happening, or maybe
Speaker 2: this is kind of a direction that we're trending. Let's
Speaker 2: work on this together so that we don't, you know,
Speaker 2: go down a pathway where it's unmanageable, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: you're not going to marry a girl at one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty five pounds and then after humpting kids and
Speaker 2: twenty years later she's going to be one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five pounds and that's just not human bio. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's just very very unrealistic.
Speaker 1: Going into the marriage. You have to have these expectations
Speaker 1: that they are going to change over time, and that's
Speaker 1: something that we all age. I mean, you can't stop that.
Speaker 1: So where do you draw the line between like you
Speaker 1: betrayed me by getting ugly.
Speaker 2: The weird thing is is that there should be a
Speaker 2: natural age process that takes place. But I think specifically
Speaker 2: when we get into the the issue of physical bodies
Speaker 2: and weight gain and whatever, you know, I can't remember
Speaker 2: what it was, but it was it was, you know,
Speaker 2: I can't remember. Fifty years ago or something, they did
Speaker 2: a study and the average woman was five foot five,
Speaker 2: right in one hundred and twenty five pounds or something,
Speaker 2: and today the average woman is five foot five and
Speaker 2: like one hundred and eighty pounds or something like this.
Speaker 2: So obviously diet, lack of exercise, and other things have
Speaker 2: contributed to a general move towards obesity within our culture,
Speaker 2: which is not healthy. Right. Obesity is not good for anybody.
Speaker 2: So I think that again, it's every couple is different.
Speaker 2: Every couple needs to I think, have that conversation. But
Speaker 2: I do think that there is some justification that's happening
Speaker 2: in the culture, as if like because you have children,
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna just suddenly miraculously put on fifty
Speaker 2: pounds or something. That's not realistic, Like you're gonna put
Speaker 2: on weight when you have the baby. The baby's gonna
Speaker 2: come off, and then there's gonna be a process of
Speaker 2: nursing and you know, getting back into shape. That's normal
Speaker 2: and healthy. I don't think that it's I mean, again,
Speaker 2: if somebody said, you know, father, my wife is sixty
Speaker 2: and she's wrinkly, it's like that's what happens to everybody,
Speaker 2: Like that's normal, that's normal. I think that when we
Speaker 2: get into specifically something regarding weight gain, weight gain is
Speaker 2: within our control everybody is subject to the laws of thermodynamics,
Speaker 2: so every single human being unless the laws of physics
Speaker 2: do not pertain to a person. Now, people may have
Speaker 2: slower metabolisms or this or that or whatever, but the
Speaker 2: reality is is that all of human weight on some
Speaker 2: level has to do with calories in and calories out.
Speaker 2: Not gain weight in a caloric deficit. It's an impossibility.
Speaker 2: But we live in a society where people are eating
Speaker 2: fast food two times a day. They don't realize it's
Speaker 2: twenty five hundred calories a meal, and then they're eating
Speaker 2: a dinner at night, and now all of a sudden
Speaker 2: they're over three thousand calories for the day. They just
Speaker 2: don't understand how calorie rich our food is. And so
Speaker 2: it's not to point the finger, but to say, look,
Speaker 2: if you eat according to what the society kind of
Speaker 2: offers you, it will tend to obesity. Because we as
Speaker 2: a nation, I think, are the still I think, the
Speaker 2: most obese nation in the world. Somber one. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: this is not a genetic abnormality, but actually the byproduct
Speaker 2: of what we're eating in our sedentary life. So again
Speaker 2: I think within and I think the thing that I
Speaker 2: said earlier is true too, which is I think each
Speaker 2: couple needs to talk about it. And you know I
Speaker 2: would if you know, if I stopped working out and
Speaker 2: got way over out of shape and my wife came
Speaker 2: to me and said, sweetheart, you know, like this isn't attractive,
Speaker 2: I would strive to get back into shape. Like I
Speaker 2: owe that to her because like she married me when
Speaker 2: I was in shape, and she married you know, she
Speaker 2: had an expectation that I would do things to the
Speaker 2: best of my ability to maintain my physique. I don't
Speaker 2: think there's anything weird or wrong about that. I think
Speaker 2: it goes both ways.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have a little cartoon here that went around.
Speaker 1: People were arguing about it. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: can read that, but it says.
Speaker 2: Stay, oh yeah, he just of marriage.
Speaker 1: And she's got a cute butt in the beginning, and
Speaker 1: then she gets frumpier and fatter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So this was kind of a roar shock test, honestly,
Speaker 1: to see how people would react to this. And so
Speaker 1: they're saying this is the number one cause of divorce,
Speaker 1: which I think that's kind of funny because in each
Speaker 1: picture he's sitting while she's working, and if you know
Speaker 1: anything about women's hell. I mean, I know you're into health,
Speaker 1: but you probably don't know the female side of it.
Speaker 1: We lose weight very differently. Our metabolisms are a lot different.
Speaker 1: Cortisol and stress and overwork can lead to weight gain
Speaker 1: in women, not so much for men. But not having
Speaker 1: proper rest leads to weight gain in women a lot.
Speaker 1: Have you seen that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, I think it comes back to
Speaker 2: this issue regarding the laws of thermodynamics, which is, you
Speaker 2: have a caloric You have a basic caloric daily requirement, right,
Speaker 2: which is a calories, which is calories are a function
Speaker 2: of energy that you need to eat every day to
Speaker 2: maintain that weight. Now, there are things that affect how
Speaker 2: many calories you need to eat every day, one of
Speaker 2: which being your hormones, one of which being your thyroid.
Speaker 2: Another example of that that could be your metabolism. Certain
Speaker 2: foods affect certain people a certain way. Like some people
Speaker 2: can eat really high carb diets and be fi et
Speaker 2: a high carb diet and it's great for me. Other
Speaker 2: people eat high carb and they have their body does
Speaker 2: a really good job of storing that as fat. Right,
Speaker 2: they have that conversion process that takes place. But there
Speaker 2: are some. Again, there's still fundamental laws that govern the universe,
Speaker 2: which is, if you are burning two thousand calories a
Speaker 2: day and you're eating twenty one hundred calories a day
Speaker 2: over the course of sixteen days, you're going to put
Speaker 2: on a pound. Essentially. It's just that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: So you have to have that basic metabolic understanding of
Speaker 2: how your body works, what foods are good for you,
Speaker 2: what foods aren't. Like, we don't eat a lot of protein.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't tell you. Many times I talk
Speaker 2: to women, like how much protein do you eat? And
Speaker 2: people say they go, oh, I'm eating like fifty grams
Speaker 2: of protein a day. And it's like protein does not
Speaker 2: ever basically convert into fat. It is super dense. Right.
Speaker 2: So you can get a steak and I was talking
Speaker 2: about this the other day. You can get a steak
Speaker 2: that's like this big, that's six hundred calories. Then if
Speaker 2: you eat those six hundred calories, you will be completely
Speaker 2: full and satiated and not want to eat anything else.
Speaker 2: You can go to McDonald's and buy a big Mac
Speaker 2: which will leave which has very little protein, has tons
Speaker 2: of carbs, tons of process basically sugars in it and
Speaker 2: is nine hundred calories and you'll still be hungry at
Speaker 2: the end of it. So there are aspects to which
Speaker 2: our bodies respond to certain foods, but fundamentally the law
Speaker 2: of thermodynamics cannot be you know, how do you want
Speaker 2: to put it violated? Right? You burn a certain amount
Speaker 2: of calories every day, so you need a certain amount
Speaker 2: of calories to stay at that weight. If you eat
Speaker 2: less calories, your body will dip into the fat stores
Speaker 2: and start to burn excess calories and you will start
Speaker 2: to lose weight. That's how it works for everybody. There's
Speaker 2: nobody who's exempted from this. This is this is this is,
Speaker 2: this is how God created the universe. Right. But I
Speaker 2: think the problem is is that we have very very
Speaker 2: bad portion control, huge problem, huge, huge problem. We have
Speaker 2: very very bad food selection, huge problem. We have low protein,
Speaker 2: high carbon harb high fat diets, enormously bad problem. We
Speaker 2: have processed foods that are full of sugars and other things, right,
Speaker 2: that are not calorically dense, so you can eat a
Speaker 2: little something and it has a huge caloric return on it. Right,
Speaker 2: So all of those things are within our abilities to
Speaker 2: change and to modify our eating habits, our exercise and
Speaker 2: the things that we're doing. I don't think in a
Speaker 2: marriage your wife gaining weight right in the whole, even
Speaker 2: in that even in that analogy or in the comic right,
Speaker 2: there's no point at which the husband's actually talking to
Speaker 2: the wife or even engaging her. He's like watching TV
Speaker 2: or something, right, So they're not putting anything together, they're
Speaker 2: not exercising together, they're not having a conversation about it. Like,
Speaker 2: if somebody were to ask me, what is probably the
Speaker 2: number one problem in marriages? One both people lacking a
Speaker 2: lot of spiritual depth, lacking very strong relationships with God
Speaker 2: would be number one. Now, if you said, what do
Speaker 2: you think it is on the human level, I would say,
Speaker 2: and I've talked to lots of couples over the years,
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, really, number two falls into
Speaker 2: the violation of Saint Paul's commandments. Wives honor your husbands
Speaker 2: and husbands love your wives. So most often I find
Speaker 2: in a marriage that a wife is not honoring her husband,
Speaker 2: she's not respectful to him, she doesn't treat him with deference,
Speaker 2: and the husbands don't have love for their wives. When
Speaker 2: a husband doesn't love his wife. It is catastrophic. Women
Speaker 2: know when they are loved, and when they're being loved,
Speaker 2: they can sense it with their whole being. They you know,
Speaker 2: women have that super sense to know when they're loved,
Speaker 2: when they're valued, when they're cherished and are And if
Speaker 2: the husband does not put that out for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: it's not because of her weight. It is one hundred
Speaker 2: percent because he feels emasculated. He doesn't have a good
Speaker 2: relationship with God himself. That's huge. He doesn't know how
Speaker 2: to communicate, He is exhausted from life right and is
Speaker 2: not being refilled by the Holy Spirit. All of those
Speaker 2: things factor into that. But never, ever, ever, ever, in
Speaker 2: a marriage pretty much have I ever looked and said, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, that woman is like, is really struggling and
Speaker 2: she's got a great husband. I just I mean, I
Speaker 2: can't even recall one marriage where I said, oh, she's
Speaker 2: really struggling, but her husband's just like a plush. The
Speaker 2: majority of the time with the husband, it's like, buddy, like,
Speaker 2: your wife knows what's going Like. The problem is, it's
Speaker 2: like for men to open their heart up, they have
Speaker 2: to open their heart to God. They have to find
Speaker 2: their worth, their value everything in God. They have to
Speaker 2: find who they are in God so that they are
Speaker 2: completely rooted and situated and solid in who they are.
Speaker 2: And then they can open their heart up to the
Speaker 2: people around them and they can take you know, they
Speaker 2: can they can bring other people into themselves. So when
Speaker 2: a man's heart is malformed because he doesn't feel loved
Speaker 2: by God, he doesn't open his heart up to God.
Speaker 2: His heart is always kind of is retarded, it's not
Speaker 2: formed correct, and so he does doesn't have You know,
Speaker 2: you never look at a bad marriage and go, man,
Speaker 2: that guy just loves his wife, right, you know, You're
Speaker 2: like he resents her and and she does. She knows
Speaker 2: that he resents her. Like how many marriages have I
Speaker 2: talked to? Where I go, the wife resents the husband
Speaker 2: and is disrespectful, and the husband can't stand the wife,
Speaker 2: and she knows that. And because she's being rejected by him,
Speaker 2: even if she's done things that have hurt him, wounded him,
Speaker 2: whatever else, the fact that she's being rejected by him
Speaker 2: makes just throws her out. She just wives just tend
Speaker 2: to just spin out because it's like a core aspect
Speaker 2: of who they are is wanting to be loved, right,
Speaker 2: And the other thing is too. I have to tell
Speaker 2: people this. Like, look, in twenty two years of marriage,
Speaker 2: I've never thought like, oh, my my wife doesn't love
Speaker 2: me enough. Men don't think like this, like he don't.
Speaker 2: Now hypothetically, there's been some times where I'm like, ah,
Speaker 2: she could change that tone of voice, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But in our marriage have there been times
Speaker 2: where my wife has been like you, you're not loving
Speaker 2: me enough. And then when I'm really on, I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: she's right, I'm frustrated about this or on this or
Speaker 2: that or whatever else or these things are you know,
Speaker 2: coming into you know ahead, I'm overworked, I'm stressed, whatever.
Speaker 2: She's right, I don't have I'm not I'm not giving
Speaker 2: her enough of my heart. And that's like, dude, that's
Speaker 2: that's a life force for your wife. Is that you're
Speaker 2: just constantly like pumping a love, attention and affection her way.
Speaker 2: I mean it is. It's like I mean, I it's
Speaker 2: like if you could, if if you, if I could
Speaker 2: just teach guys how to get into that, Like so
Speaker 2: many times even with guys where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 2: how often do you tell your wife she's beautiful? How
Speaker 2: often do you tell her that you love her. How
Speaker 2: much do you compliment her on her her parenting or
Speaker 2: whatever else. So often guys are like, well, like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, like and I'm like, this is stuff you
Speaker 2: got to be doing every single day and it's and
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, this is the work you put
Speaker 2: into marriage, Like, this isn't work, this is this is
Speaker 2: a normal aspect of having a healthy relationship. You spend
Speaker 2: time listening to your wife every day, talk about her day,
Speaker 2: the struggles that she's having, the things that are overwhelming her.
Speaker 2: That's normal, that's being a husband. You love her, you
Speaker 2: encourage her, You are affectionate to her in a non
Speaker 2: forgive me, but in a non sexual way. You're you're
Speaker 2: because women love a lot of that, just being touched
Speaker 2: and being loved in a way that is just I
Speaker 2: just love you for you. When you do all those things,
Speaker 2: you know, there's no problem with affection in the marriage.
Speaker 2: But so often, so many guys are not doing any
Speaker 2: of those things, and then they're like, oh, my wife
Speaker 2: doesn't want to again. This is again one of those
Speaker 2: constant things that you see on the Oh my wife
Speaker 2: doesn't want to sleep with me. Oh, we don't have
Speaker 2: normal marital relations whatever else. And I'm like, I feel
Speaker 2: like now you of the time, Like, dude, I know
Speaker 2: I could diagnose this marriage, but I was around them for
Speaker 2: like thirty minutes during a dinner and see everything that
Speaker 2: they have, all the dynamics they have going on. But
Speaker 2: fundamentally that husband is not feeding his wife the love
Speaker 2: and the attention and the affection that she needs and
Speaker 2: the leadership and the leadership that she needs.
Speaker 1: Is monogamy too much to ask of men.
Speaker 2: It was got me to spit out my water there
Speaker 2: expect that's.
Speaker 1: The consensus is that that's not fair. You can't expect
Speaker 1: that I have a biological imperative. Boys.
Speaker 2: I think I just think it's just yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I just I expect that from the culture, and I
Speaker 2: expect men to not not to be self controlled. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just I mean, that's really is. It'd be like saying,
Speaker 2: is it enough to expect men to be self controlled?
Speaker 2: Its yeah, it's enough to expect men to be self controlled.
Speaker 2: Men have had one wife for the last several thousand years.
Speaker 2: It has not been a hinderance, but it has become
Speaker 2: a hindrance because men are oversaturated with sexual desires that
Speaker 2: are perverse and that are not reasonable, and that are
Speaker 2: not they're not going to find them within the bounds
Speaker 2: of marriage. You know. Saint John Chris Awsom talks about
Speaker 2: this almost you know, seventeen hundred years ago. He says,
Speaker 2: the couples get together because of basically of lust, because
Speaker 2: of physical what does he say, physical attraction? He says,
Speaker 2: at most that attraction will last one year. So I
Speaker 2: think that's actually what you see more than anything, which
Speaker 2: is men get into these relationships, are attracted to this woman,
Speaker 2: but they're not attracted to her in a godly way,
Speaker 2: and the relationship is not based on a godly foundation,
Speaker 2: and so they lose interest and they lose for her.
Speaker 1: A lot of women complain that their boyfriend or their
Speaker 1: husband doesn't even like them. Yeah, I mean she's around
Speaker 1: doing everything, and he keeps her because she's useful. But
Speaker 1: they can tell, Like you just said, women know when
Speaker 1: they're loved. They're figuring out this person doesn't even like
Speaker 1: me despite being married to me. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's two things. I mean, number one
Speaker 2: is I think that sorry, is that a question or like,
Speaker 2: do you want me to comment on that?
Speaker 1: Go ahead?
Speaker 2: I think there's two things. I mean. Number one is
Speaker 2: like women in our culture have really lost a lot
Speaker 2: of feminine energy. They project a lot of masculine energy.
Speaker 2: So they're argumentative, they're aggressive, they're competitive, and they seem
Speaker 2: to value these things and sometimes even like their egotistical,
Speaker 2: which is weird because women naturally are not like that.
Speaker 2: It's very strange. So women are modeling a lot of
Speaker 2: masculine behavior and a lot of masculine energy towards their partners,
Speaker 2: and then they wonder why the man doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be with them, and it's because men don't want to
Speaker 2: be in a sexual relationship with another man. That's really
Speaker 2: what it is. And women have lost a lot of
Speaker 2: the sweet, tender femininity, caring, nurturing love, et cetera, et
Speaker 2: cetera that they have. And again, a man can love
Speaker 2: a woman who's like that, But if a man tries
Speaker 2: to turn a woman like that into a sexual object,
Speaker 2: which is again what we see why pornography is listed
Speaker 2: as the number one reason for failed marriages, they're trying
Speaker 2: to turn the woman into a subhuman and so they
Speaker 2: don't love women for being women.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a term for that. They call it
Speaker 1: spiritually gay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, And so you just.
Speaker 1: Said that the pornography was the number one cause for divorce,
Speaker 1: and so there's a statistic going around that, you know,
Speaker 1: women initiate eight of divorces. So are you saying that
Speaker 1: they're initiating that because of the poor.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean again, everybody's gonna get offended by
Speaker 2: me saying this. But women are just smarter relationally than men.
Speaker 2: That's just a reality. Like you could be like men
Speaker 2: are smarter, Like, look, men are smarter at chess, strategy, mathematics, engineering,
Speaker 2: city building, running a government, or running a military. There's
Speaker 2: so many things that men are very good at and
Speaker 2: really better than women at. But there are things that
Speaker 2: women are better at. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: women are better at is relationships. And they know fundamentally, like, look,
Speaker 2: this guy's not meeting my needs. He's not going to
Speaker 2: meet my needs, he's not going to change, and like
Speaker 2: he's toxic to be around. And so women are quicker
Speaker 2: to pull the trigger on that. Men are willing just
Speaker 2: to suffer it out in silence. The fallacy that like
Speaker 2: women are initiating eighty percent of the divorces. There certainly
Speaker 2: is a lot of women who have masculine energy, who
Speaker 2: are academically changed, you know, formed and whatever else and
Speaker 2: are and and really are insufferable to be around. There
Speaker 2: are that is a reality in our culture. Forgive me,
Speaker 2: but the reality is is that women are also quicker
Speaker 2: to realize like a sinking ship and get off. Men
Speaker 2: are more apt to go down with the ship. It's
Speaker 2: just it's just our nature. So but I but I
Speaker 2: think one of the things, like again it's it's the
Speaker 2: whole chicken in the egg. Women are really good at
Speaker 2: being women and being soft and gentle and nurturing and
Speaker 2: kind and adoring and all of those wonderful womanly like
Speaker 2: just absolutely majestic qualities when they feel safe, when they
Speaker 2: feel when they feel that their husband is devoted and
Speaker 2: that he loves them and that they're the center of
Speaker 2: his universe, you know what I mean, Like not when
Speaker 2: he they usurp Christ, but you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: in terms of his life, they are that they are
Speaker 2: in They are the most important person outside of God
Speaker 2: in their life. Women know that they know that, and
Speaker 2: so then they feel safe and then they can be feminine.
Speaker 2: So men in our society, they don't create that safety
Speaker 2: with women, you know what I mean through and one
Speaker 2: of the primary ways is through lust, because a woman knows. Look,
Speaker 2: if a guy is looking at porn all the time,
Speaker 2: it's not a big first off. He's yeah, he's not
Speaker 2: really being faithful to her, he doesn't really value what
Speaker 2: is unique and special and precious about her. Right, she's
Speaker 2: not giving she's not quote unquote giving him something that
Speaker 2: he's not going and taking other places as well. And
Speaker 2: then it's obviously not a hard continuance to see that.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a very strong possibility that, given the opportunity,
Speaker 2: he would then violate the bounds of their relationship. So
Speaker 2: they don't feel safe. So what does that do. It
Speaker 2: creates a scared environment where women tend to be hostile
Speaker 2: towards men. And that's what we see a lot in
Speaker 2: our society. Women are very hostile towards men in our society.
Speaker 2: And as a response, you know, again, men have not
Speaker 2: created an environment where women can be women and that
Speaker 2: they love and enjoy women for who they are like.
Speaker 2: And this is the thing. I genuinely have next to
Speaker 2: nothing in common with my wife, and I genuinely love
Speaker 2: and enjoy being with her she's like my favorite person
Speaker 2: to be with because she's a woman. She's the energy
Speaker 2: is different and like she has feminine energy and when
Speaker 2: she's in that, you know, when she's just being herself.
Speaker 2: A really it's a relief for me. It's a relaxation.
Speaker 2: I feel calm, I feel I can't describe it. I
Speaker 2: just I'm like I, you know, I it's where I
Speaker 2: want to be at the end of my day. I
Speaker 2: want to be with my wife at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, you know. I carve out like we probably
Speaker 2: spend the last typical we spend at least the last
Speaker 2: hour to two hours of our day together every day,
Speaker 2: just the two of us, every day. And it's like, why, well,
Speaker 2: we like being together, right, So I mean, why do
Speaker 2: you do that? It's like you enjoy the feeling of
Speaker 2: being with that person. It's not you know, we're not
Speaker 2: talking about world politics or anything particularly stimulating. We're just
Speaker 2: being together doing whatever, talking about her day, watching a
Speaker 2: part of a movie or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, what about secular marriages, so it you don't
Speaker 1: have to try too hard to convince men to you know,
Speaker 1: not commit. And it's getting even worse and worse, and
Speaker 1: so it's going around now that if it's a secular marriage,
Speaker 1: you might as well not even do it at all
Speaker 1: because now the support is well, I don't know about that,
Speaker 1: because there have been many, many studies proving that being
Speaker 1: married is beneficial in every single way to men, as
Speaker 1: far as longevity, health, stability, finances, just every area of
Speaker 1: your life is improved by being married, no matter if
Speaker 1: it's a secular marriage or not. But now they're like,
Speaker 1: the core system is so bad that we're just not
Speaker 1: gonna get married at all. We're just gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: sleep around or do whatever we want to do. And
Speaker 1: I just don't think if you're waiting for the core
Speaker 1: system to be fixed, that's never gonna happen. So if
Speaker 1: you're boycotting marriage until that day, that's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think it's like Saint Paul says,
Speaker 2: if Christ didn't arise from the dead, eat, drink, and
Speaker 2: be married, because tomorrow will die, right, So without Christ,
Speaker 2: we've already established that marriage as a martyrdom. So without Christ,
Speaker 2: if I don't try to sell things to people, because
Speaker 2: if I try to, if I try to sell people
Speaker 2: on marriage, is like, look, if Christ didn't rise from
Speaker 2: the dead and he's not lord of your life. You
Speaker 2: should try to maximize as much pleasure you can before
Speaker 2: you die, because there's nothing. But if Christ did rise
Speaker 2: from the dead, then you should deny yourself, pick up
Speaker 2: your cross, and follow him. But yes, I don't think
Speaker 2: that marriage makes logical sense for people who are not
Speaker 2: going to live a life of martyrdom. Okay, I just
Speaker 2: don't think it's I think it's an aesthetical feed. I
Speaker 2: think it's like having kids. The church fathers even say
Speaker 2: that that one of the reasons that marital relations are
Speaker 2: so pleasurable is that it was God's way of basically
Speaker 2: incentivizing men to have more children, because if men did
Speaker 2: not enjoy being with their wives, most men would cap
Speaker 2: off having kids at like one or two. Why because
Speaker 2: it's very hard and they all come to realize this, like,
Speaker 2: it's way harder than you think it is. So the
Speaker 2: reason that we're incentivized to have more children is because
Speaker 2: we enjoy the bond of marriage, right, and we allow
Speaker 2: and we open up our marriage and specifically the wife's
Speaker 2: womb to the will of God. If somebody is not
Speaker 2: a Christian, I'm not going to tell them have a
Speaker 2: bunch of kids, right, because like why, Like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: tell them you need to repent. Now, if you repent,
Speaker 2: you'll end up having a lot of kids, right, potentially, right,
Speaker 2: But you know what I'm saying. So I think it's
Speaker 2: the same thing with marriage. I mean, I don't think
Speaker 2: that you're going to make the argument that living a
Speaker 2: virtuous life isn't better. Living a virtuous life is better.
Speaker 2: But all of these things that are virtuous have to
Speaker 2: do with self denial, and for the man that's of
Speaker 2: the flesh, as Saint Paul talks about, the virtuous life
Speaker 2: is foolishness to him because his main objective is to
Speaker 2: acquire pleasure, not to acquire virtue.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. Last question and then we'll be
Speaker 1: done here. I think you answered all of my crazy
Speaker 1: Twitter futes over here. Have you heard of the bear question?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: So let me just if you haven't heard of it.
Speaker 1: As a woman alone in the woods, would you rather
Speaker 1: be alone in the woods knowing there's a bear there
Speaker 1: with you or a random man? And overwhelmingly the women
Speaker 1: said bear. I feel much safer with a bear than
Speaker 1: a random man because a bear can't you know, our
Speaker 1: word me, torture me, do crazy things, keep me alive
Speaker 1: and definitely or there. You know, I'd rather get mauled
Speaker 1: by a bear than whatever a random man has in
Speaker 1: store for me. So why do you think that women
Speaker 1: feel so unsafe in society right now?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's society now. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think it's the curse of the fall. Then we can
Speaker 2: do a whole talk on just the curse of the fall.
Speaker 2: But the curse of the fall is that a woman's
Speaker 2: desire will be for her husband, and he will lord
Speaker 2: it over her. The curse is twofold for women. Number One,
Speaker 2: women are basically hopelessly attracted and drawn towards men. And
Speaker 2: I think women hate this about themselves. I think that
Speaker 2: that I.
Speaker 1: Wish I was, you know, not attracted to men, because
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: This is a frequent thing, right, that they hate an
Speaker 2: aspect of themselves because it's a vulnerability, and vulnerability in
Speaker 2: our society is seen as a weakness, right, But male
Speaker 2: attention and affection is like oxygen for women. It just is.
Speaker 2: It's it's how they're hardwired. They need and want that
Speaker 2: attention and affection. Now, if they don't get attention and
Speaker 2: affection from God. I did this recent video on this.
Speaker 2: If they don't get the attention in affection from God,
Speaker 2: they have an unnatural amount of desire from men that
Speaker 2: men will never be able to satisfy. And so they'll
Speaker 2: continually be looking for that high from different men that
Speaker 2: will never satisfy what they're looking for from God. That's
Speaker 2: number one. So they hate that aspect of themselves as
Speaker 2: craving and yearning for something that makes them vulnerable and weak.
Speaker 2: And then number two, because we live in a fallen world,
Speaker 2: it says men will lord it over them. So men
Speaker 2: will utilize the weakness of women or their desire for
Speaker 2: them against them. And all of the dating culture today
Speaker 2: is predicated on men manipulating women into, you know, sexual
Speaker 2: relationships that are beneficial for themselves and not beneficial for
Speaker 2: the women. Most dating today is renting with an option
Speaker 2: to buy right. That's what we call it. When you're
Speaker 2: having marital relations before you're married, the man is renting you.
Speaker 2: He does not own you, he does not take any
Speaker 2: responsibility for you, he doesn't even really love you. It's
Speaker 2: just lost. So if you look at society today and
Speaker 2: you see it how men have created a society where
Speaker 2: they are continually taking advantage of women. Women are not
Speaker 2: valued in our society for their expressions of womanhood, which
Speaker 2: are beautiful. It gives you, I think, a pretty I
Speaker 2: think that the test gives you a pretty clear example
Speaker 2: of what people think today in our society. I mean that,
Speaker 2: I think it's a I think it's a kind of
Speaker 2: litmus test about what's going on. I think you gave
Speaker 2: that test fifty years ago, or in the sixties or
Speaker 2: even the fifties. I mean, women would say men at
Speaker 2: any day, why because men had virtue. So today this
Speaker 2: is the irony is that men today hear this this
Speaker 2: being said by women, and they go, oh, women are
Speaker 2: so dumb. They don't realize that the bear will kill them.
Speaker 2: What they don't realize is that sixty years ago or
Speaker 2: seventy years ago, women would have chosen men, and that
Speaker 2: the sad part today is that it's actually more of
Speaker 2: a reflection on how bad men have become and how
Speaker 2: little virtue is actually valued in our society. Men do
Speaker 2: not value virtue in our society, right, I mean, this
Speaker 2: is why the consumption of internet content, illicit Internet content
Speaker 2: is absolutely through the roof because men have no sense
Speaker 2: of value or valor or virtue. They have no understanding
Speaker 2: of what is beautiful versus what is disgusting. They have
Speaker 2: no concept of the value of a woman or who
Speaker 2: she's supposed to be. Right, women have been subjugated to
Speaker 2: this kind of role of inferiority in our society, and
Speaker 2: I would say even kind of almost a general animosity
Speaker 2: and hostility for men today. Men don't know how to
Speaker 2: win over women today. That's one of the biggest things.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I said collapse of riz And it's
Speaker 1: interesting to watch their reaction of men when they get
Speaker 1: their feelings hurt that the women would rather be with
Speaker 1: a bear, where they're like, well, I hope you get mold.
Speaker 1: Then it's like, well, that's why they're saying that, because
Speaker 1: the vitriol for them.
Speaker 2: What men are not saying is what men are not
Speaker 2: saying in our society is like brothers, like we have
Speaker 2: failed collectively and showing good leadership and good morals and
Speaker 2: good virtue in our society. You notice that, like a
Speaker 2: big turning point in our society was women were like, hey,
Speaker 2: we want to be equal to men, but we want
Speaker 2: to be equal in a way that subjugates us basically
Speaker 2: in the sex industry, right, and men said, okay, sure,
Speaker 2: like the society, men in the society did not raise
Speaker 2: up and say, there is no way that we want
Speaker 2: this to happen to the women of our society. This
Speaker 2: isn't right, this isn't honoring to God, this isn't beautiful,
Speaker 2: this is not what we want whatever else. So men
Speaker 2: created this dynamic where women in our society are devalued.
Speaker 2: They said, we're fine with that. And then in the
Speaker 2: midst of devaluing women, they're like, why don't women value us?
Speaker 2: It's like, you don't value women, Like it's very clear dynamic,
Speaker 2: Like you're the man. You're supposed to lay down your
Speaker 2: life for her, as Christ lays down his life for
Speaker 2: the church. You're supposed to do all these things. You
Speaker 2: don't want to do all those things. Men have fundamentally
Speaker 2: ran away from the responsibility of martyrdom. And then in
Speaker 2: the process, women are like, well, I can't trust men
Speaker 2: because they don't love me more than they love themselves.
Speaker 2: And then men are like, well, we're not the problem.
Speaker 2: It's like, clearly, if we are the head of the culture,
Speaker 2: yes we are the problem, and we don't seem to
Speaker 2: be creating a culture where it's even normal for men
Speaker 2: to hold each other accountable. Look at all them them
Speaker 2: manosphere man influencer guys, Like what is what is the
Speaker 2: product that they're selling? Like the product that they're selling
Speaker 2: is like, look at the biggest guys Dan bil'sarian I
Speaker 2: would say, Wes Watson is fairly big. The fit and
Speaker 2: fresh guys, I don't know what their names are, Andrew
Speaker 2: Tate and his brother, and the other guy who wears
Speaker 2: the tiny suits and whatever else, all those guys. Right,
Speaker 2: you look at all those guys and cumulatively they're What
Speaker 2: they're selling is basically the exploitation of women. Become an
Speaker 2: uber male and then sexually exploit as many women as
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll teach you how to save yourself from
Speaker 1: gold diggers.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it doesn't agree. That's exactly what we're looking for.
Speaker 2: So men can't get women. And they're like, we'll show
Speaker 2: you how to get women. Not to get wives, but
Speaker 2: to manipulate them into relationships where we take advantage of them.
Speaker 2: It's so ironic. Andrew Tate, he built his whole empire.
Speaker 2: He even says that he built his empire because I
Speaker 2: watched some of these quotes taking women who were quote
Speaker 2: unquote in love with him and then basically pimping them
Speaker 2: out to other men through chat rooms in order to
Speaker 2: create revenue. Like, that's a pimp. That's not a man
Speaker 2: like that, that's not a man.
Speaker 1: Not only that, he has a whole secret society that
Speaker 1: you can, you know, by tapes to hypnotize yourself. And
Speaker 1: he's got a sorcerer working for him in a couple
Speaker 1: of witches.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go I mightn't even know about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he gets the women to tattoo themselves with
Speaker 1: his name on him, So he wom just like you
Speaker 1: would in a cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that cult that what was the name
Speaker 2: of that cult, mexiom Maxium. That's right, So that.
Speaker 1: Sorcery going on around Andrew take for sure. But I
Speaker 1: just I think it's funny that going back to the
Speaker 1: bear discourse, it's like, why are a lot of men
Speaker 1: acting like men aren't scary? Okay? Why do you lock
Speaker 1: your doors at night? Why do you not walk down
Speaker 1: dark alleys single moms? Bears?
Speaker 2: Like why lock your car?
Speaker 1: Why are you afraid of weirdos worming around? And so
Speaker 1: they don't think. They're just thinking, oh, she's a feminist,
Speaker 1: so she picked bear. No, they are literally so much
Speaker 1: weaker than you and everybody. Every woman possesses something that
Speaker 1: a lot of men would like to have and would
Speaker 1: like to take by force if they could. So it's
Speaker 1: just interesting that you're not realizing you're all scared of men. Also,
Speaker 1: you just admit it.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. That's a keen insight. Yeah, I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: I mean, are you protecting women from bears or other men?
Speaker 2: So you no? I mean, it's why guys own guns. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: that's why guys own I mean, I guarantee a lot
Speaker 2: of the guys in these conversations are guys that own
Speaker 2: guns and believe in the Second Amendment and all this.
Speaker 2: And it's like, right, we're not we're not protecting ourselves
Speaker 2: from from women invaders of our home, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like in the middle of the night, women
Speaker 2: are wearing ski masks, kicking in our front.
Speaker 1: Door, dancing college girls that you're scared of. Or is
Speaker 1: it you know, whapped out men on drugs and demon
Speaker 1: like people that can overtank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. That's solid, solid insight.
Speaker 1: I love men in practice and in theory, So I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not saying I want to be alone with
Speaker 1: a bear, but I'm saying y'all can be very intimidating
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: Did you hear about that guy, Grizzly Man who lived
Speaker 1: with the bears like six months of the year and
Speaker 1: then he would leave and come back. And he did
Speaker 1: this for many, many years, and one day he brought
Speaker 1: his longtime girlfriend out there to live with the bears
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, and they both got eaten up.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why was that.
Speaker 1: Just because you don't live with bears? Man? I mean,
Speaker 1: he thought that he could be a bear and that
Speaker 1: it would be okay. And but the thing that I
Speaker 1: took away from that story when I read the article
Speaker 1: was like seven years girlfriend or five something like that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, five years girlfriend, like that, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: get eaten by a bear for a guy who didn't
Speaker 1: want to marry me. I mean that sounds like wife
Speaker 1: duties to me, not five years girlfriend.
Speaker 2: That's funny that they had a documentary on that too, right,
Speaker 2: there was a movie. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm like
Speaker 2: ninety nine percent sure I saw that movie when it
Speaker 2: came out. I can't remember the yeah.
Speaker 1: But name's Timothy Treadwell or something, Grizzly Man or something,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I was just probably like the most atrocious thing.
Speaker 1: I was like, he didn't even propose and she got
Speaker 1: eaten by a bear for him. That's another big issue.
Speaker 1: I know we're out of time now, but it's like
Speaker 1: guy will string a woman along for he'll have an
Speaker 1: entire life in a family with her ten years and
Speaker 1: three kids, and they're still not married, and he gives
Speaker 1: her a shut up ring or something, you know, at
Speaker 1: the ten year mark, but he still won't commit to her.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you got to stop dating and having
Speaker 1: families with someone who doesn't even love you or want
Speaker 1: to have you at their wife.
Speaker 2: Number one thing I would say to women, if a
Speaker 2: woman asks me, the number one thing I would say
Speaker 2: is join an Orthodox church, the one it's the one
Speaker 2: environment where men hold other men accountable, and that there
Speaker 2: is actually a standard there, and that men have a
Speaker 2: spiritual father and the spiritual father has actual guidance over
Speaker 2: their you know, sound guidance, not controlling, not a cult, right,
Speaker 2: but that you know, like the guys who are you know,
Speaker 2: my spiritual sons. They have a very clear understanding that
Speaker 2: in order to be in good standing with the church,
Speaker 2: I need to live a pure life, and they're committed
Speaker 2: to that, and that our goal is to marry women
Speaker 2: and to have families. And I think women forget that
Speaker 2: they can't hold men accountable. It's just the wrong dynamic.
Speaker 2: That energy doesn't work, and so women are trying to
Speaker 2: like in a sense, they're trying to like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: bridal kind of like unbridled men, and it doesn't work right.
Speaker 2: So if a woman was saying, where's the number one
Speaker 2: place that you would look for a husband, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: go to an Orthodox church, because all of your concerns
Speaker 2: about men are that you can't trust him, And it's
Speaker 2: the number one place where men are actually dealing with
Speaker 2: those things that are untrustworthy about themselves and they're being
Speaker 2: held accountable by another man. And so the dynamics there
Speaker 2: within the society of the church create healthy marriages because
Speaker 2: the wife knows that the husband has accountability with the
Speaker 2: spiritual father who is guiding and directing them, and a
Speaker 2: whole holding the man to a higher standard that he
Speaker 2: would not necessarily normally hold himself to. So that is
Speaker 2: the one way in which I think in all of
Speaker 2: these things that the actual practicality of living in the
Speaker 2: church is what plays itself out to create healthy dynamics
Speaker 2: and healthy marriages because all of what you need is
Speaker 2: there to create a healthy marriage, which it takes more
Speaker 2: than just the two of you, right, You need somebody
Speaker 2: who's a confessor, You need somebody you go to confession with.
Speaker 2: You need somebody who's basically a coach for your marriage
Speaker 2: and helps the two of you out, which is the
Speaker 2: role of the spiritual father. Like, you actually need those
Speaker 2: things to create a healthy marriage and a healthy dynamic.
Speaker 1: And that just makes so much sense practically to have
Speaker 1: a confessor and a spiritual father because he's going to
Speaker 1: catch things and nip them in the bud before they
Speaker 1: become a catastrophe. Like, you know, you're not going to
Speaker 1: have an Orthodox man with a whole nother family somewhere else, right,
Speaker 1: You're not going to have years and years of betrayal.
Speaker 1: You're not going to have like giant things that they're
Speaker 1: hiding from you because they wouldn't be able to commune
Speaker 1: and confess that they did all.
Speaker 2: Right, And you're not going to be dating for a
Speaker 2: year or two, right, I mean all the guys when
Speaker 2: they talk to me and they're like, well, father, what
Speaker 2: do you think I go? You date for like six
Speaker 2: months and if this is serious, then you start making
Speaker 2: the necessary steps towards marriage. We don't date that ad infinitum,
Speaker 2: you know, Like that's not what we do. We all
Speaker 2: of dating is courtship towards marriage. And not only that,
Speaker 2: you know, we have standards Like for my guys, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm very clear, like you know, don't be kissing before marriage.
Speaker 2: Never seen anything good come of it, you know, So
Speaker 2: I actually, you know, it's it's for a guy to
Speaker 2: hear that from an older man that they respect, who says, listen,
Speaker 2: like I understand everything you're going through, but just don't
Speaker 2: do these things because they're going to lead you in
Speaker 2: the wrong way. It's so much easier for a man
Speaker 2: who's in his twenties to listen to me. And because
Speaker 2: we have a relationship, they know I love them, they
Speaker 2: know I want the best for them, and I care
Speaker 2: about them. I'm a fatherly figure to them. They see
Speaker 2: my own life, they see my own marriage, they see
Speaker 2: my children. All of those dynamics is like they can
Speaker 2: get on board with it because they know where they
Speaker 2: want to go and they understand that I want to
Speaker 2: help lead them there, and so they're able to follow
Speaker 2: that direction and instruction and in the process they end
Speaker 2: up you know, you create these guys that are they're
Speaker 2: a phenomenal catch for women. You know, I have a
Speaker 2: few guys in my church. I'm like, these guys are
Speaker 2: great catches for women, you know what I mean. I'm like,
Speaker 2: they're handsome, they're in shape, they take care of themselves,
Speaker 2: they take care of their spiritual life. They're responsible, they
Speaker 2: come to the services and pray, they go to confession regularly,
Speaker 2: you know, all of these different dynamics. I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is a this is the type of guy that you
Speaker 2: can have a whole family with and have a really wonderful,
Speaker 2: beautiful life with. You're not going to find that in
Speaker 2: guys outside of the church. It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2: All this nonsense about high value, like in all the
Speaker 2: ways in which our society defind side values. Whether I
Speaker 2: don't care who it is, from Pearl to whoever else,
Speaker 2: it's all nonsense. It's it's like ninety percent of his
Speaker 2: financial It's like that is not it. That is not
Speaker 2: what makes someone high value exactly. Yeah, character and love
Speaker 2: and all the other things attentiveness.
Speaker 1: And they'll make a meme of a low value woman
Speaker 1: and put all of the descriptors on and it's so
Speaker 1: there's so many things that anybody could fall into that category.
Speaker 1: You know, she had a job or a tattoo, or
Speaker 1: an ex boyfriend or like whatever. It's just kind of well,
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 2: The funniest thing to me too, because somebody said today, like,
Speaker 2: men don't like women with tattoos. Like, dude, my wife
Speaker 2: has tattoos. Yeah, I don't care, Like what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Like my wife is super, My wife's amazing. If any
Speaker 2: dude spend any time around my wife, they would be like,
Speaker 2: this guy is truly blessed to be married to her.
Speaker 2: You know, when you get all these weird generalizations like
Speaker 2: that women are only they have to be this weird
Speaker 2: only certain way. I don't know, it's just it's so strange,
Speaker 2: like it's you know, like it's it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's weird, sea getting weird. And a lot of the
Speaker 1: accounts like that's why I had you on, like the
Speaker 1: biblical masculinity accounts, and some even have Orthodox crossed in
Speaker 1: their bio. They make it look so crazy that it's
Speaker 1: not attractive to women. So you said you have a
Speaker 1: lot of men in your parish.
Speaker 2: I do too.
Speaker 1: I would love to see them find girlfriends and make babies,
Speaker 1: you know, after they get married. But the Ortho sphere
Speaker 1: online is sliding into a very weird place. And so
Speaker 1: back to the beginning, it's I think it's being infiltrated
Speaker 1: by weirdos or you know, subversive accounts, maybe not even
Speaker 1: Christian people, like a lot of these accounts are just
Speaker 1: spots or paid for or Indian women like in India.
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of people though that are
Speaker 2: that are ideologically Orthodox, and it's not really about Christ.
Speaker 2: It's not about the risen Lord, it's not about the incarnation.
Speaker 2: It's not about living a new life in Christ. Right,
Speaker 2: And you see that where it's like, oh, it's about
Speaker 2: it's about monarchy, or it's about nationalism, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. And it's all these kind of ideological things
Speaker 2: that have nothing to do with Christ. You could literally
Speaker 2: take Christ out of their orthodoxy and they would remain
Speaker 2: the same because they're not actually worshiping the God Man
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. They don't really have love for Christ. They
Speaker 2: have love for this mutilated religion that they've created that
Speaker 2: they think is Orthodoxy. That's not Orthodoxy at all. Orthodoxy
Speaker 2: is the worship and the love of the Holy Trinity.
Speaker 2: And that's why these people don't talk about the Trinity.
Speaker 2: They don't talk about Christ, they don't talk about the Incarnation.
Speaker 2: They constantly talk about race, interracial marriages, nationalism, inferiority of women,
Speaker 2: whatever else. It's just it has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: what we're living in the Orthodox Church in a life
Speaker 2: of repentance. It's completely divorced from that. They're just looking
Speaker 2: for something that is is some kind of based religion,
Speaker 2: which is not what Orthodoxy it is at all.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, perfect, you said everything I wanted you
Speaker 1: to say, and I really respect your opinion and I'm
Speaker 1: grateful that you came on and anything else you want
Speaker 1: to add that.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you can I post some stuff on
Speaker 2: Instagram on Father Moses McPherson on Instagram, and you can
Speaker 2: google me on YouTube. I think it's Father Moses McPherson
Speaker 2: on YouTube and it has talks and other things that
Speaker 2: I do. So yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And if you are in the Austin, Texas area, look
Speaker 1: a Holy Mother of God and go visit Father Moses.
Speaker 1: So thanks for coming and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2: A bless