Speaker 1: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Jamie Hanshaw and we
are going to have another episode of gender Wars and
Weirdness with Father Moses McPherson. He is the priest at
Holy Mother of God Parish in Austin, Texas, and my
friend and Jay's friend, and a sigma male. He's transcended
alpha male into sigma male. He's a very masculine authority
to appeal to. Because you know, I've been triggered by
Twitter again and I have this hypothesis about the Biblical
masculinity and submission posts, and if you'll indulge me, I'm
going to try and make a case that this is
really getting weird. Okay, So the whole alpha male phenomenon,
I don't know if you all know this, probably not
because you didn't spend time. I'm on four sean in
the two thousands like I did. But the verbiage that
they're using, and anytime you see an account on Twitter
with the words biblical or masculinity or any kind of
like combination alpha male, this or whatever, it's gonna be whack. Okay,
because this stuff came from corn and furries specifically. Okay,
the whole alpha male, beta male, submission subdom. My idea
is that we are being made to witness some kind
of public display of fetishism with some of these posts
and these accounts. I know that's kind of like a
big thing to say, but like I said, so the
alpha male comes from Furries and from Korn and from
for Cheon, and then you have a lot of accounts
with very very young men like they can't even vote,
and they're telling in what to do. They're saying you
need to be this, and that they're telling them to
shut up right on air, being very disrespectful. And the
submission language I'm hearing is also very fetishistic with I mean,
everybody knows what BDSM is, right, So you have a
dominant and a submissive person and a lot of the
language in these posts is identical to the sexualization fetish
And then you have the trad wife aesthetic, which is,
you know, nothing too crazy, but it's blurring into the
lines of performative aesthetics. So I know that's a lot
for the introduction, and I have about twenty questions from
Twitter to ask you, and because my opinion is getting
less and less valuable, I feel as time goes on
as a woman, and that's a weird thing to witness also,
so I wanted to appeal to male authority. I'm an
Orthodox Christian. Obviously we are triarchal. I'm not a feminist,
but I'm not a weirdo either. So that's why I
brought you on. Because you're a nice, masculine, normal guy.
You have five sons, you have an incredible wife, you
have a vibrant household. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: What do you think about my hypothesis there that it's
getting into sexual fetish areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a couple of things that Obviously a
lot of the the trad wife stuff, I think you
use the word performative. That's a that's that's something I
really resonate with, particularly because you know, I have a
wife who is a trad wife, I guess if you
want to say that. And nothing that these people create
is anything like reality, so you know, it's a total
I mean, the levels of delusion of having again. And
with some of it, it's funny because you'll see a
woman who has like one or two children and then
she's like, oh, I'm a trad wife and I'm like,
I watch me bake breakfast or whatever for my husband.
And then you'll see a whole video on this right
or there'll be like a three minute or two minute video.
And I saw one recently and it's like where are
the kids, Like they're not in the video, so it's
like we're So it's like either a they're watching TV
or two you have a nanny because it if your
kids are awake, they're with you. So that's not reality.
So you're like, okay, that's first off, you're not making
traditional breakfast for your husband whatever else. That's nonsense. And
then number two is a lot of times they only
have like a couple of kids, and a lot of
times will be like, oh, I'm gonna have a huge family.
We're doing this thing, blah blah blah blah blah. And
you're like, when you have five kids, like you're barely surviving,
you know, you're not thriving, Like nobody's nobody has five kids,
and it's like going, oh my goodness, it's like it's
just so it's so much bliss and wonderfulness. It's just
not reality. You know, it's literally just a total grind
and grueling experience, not in a bad way because you
love your kids, but not in a way where you're
quote unquote producing content. And then I think a lot
of the other trad stuff, which is like you know,
watch us homestead, It's like you're not homesteading unless you
have a million dollars, Like you're not buying the land.
You're not building a house, or you're not buying something
with twenty acres of land and setting up everything to
try to get it running and operational with lessons. So
this is like on every level, there are all these
components that are working behind the scenes that are not
reflective of reality. There are things that are just not feasible.
They're literally not possible when you have a family and
creating content to doing all that stuff is I mean
just totally frivolous. So I think when you talk about
that aspect, I think this is what you said, very performative.
I think when you get into the gender role as
I see it being expressed, I think that there's a
very very strong rebound. So we often see this, which
is you know, the culture dives hard left where it's
like it's all you know, I mean, you know, if
you're what you know, if you want to have a
happy marriage, have a happy wife. You know, happy wife,
happy life. Never have an you know your wife is
always right, don't ever disagree. I mean, like all kinds
of just absurdist statements that make women kind of like
the center of the universe in your life, and you're
there to be subservient to her emotional desires and whims
and whatever else and curtail yourself around her to then
rebounding on the other side, which is like it's all
about male domination. So now the wife is just there
to serve and take care of her husband. And now
the husband has become the center point or the focal
point of the relationship. And he's the one who's the
head of the family. He's in charge, he's the dominant one.
Blah blah blah. All you're watching in culture is just rebounds.
And so you know, when one thing doesn't work, people
try to overcompensate by creating something else. But it's equally unbalanced.
It's kind of like and this is a critique from
Saint John Maximovich where he is writing about the Mother
of God, and he said, you know, the Protestants go
so far where they're not even venerating her or showing
her even any respect. And yet the scripture says like
every generation will call her blessed. And then you have
the Catholic side where it's like basically maybe even drifting
into worship and she becomes kind of this deified or
divine figure, almost fourth person of the treaty, which is
also unbalanced. And there's a middle path, and you know,
it's what we taught. And oftentimes I actually, when I'm
looking for answers on something, I'll notice the left and
the right and the imbalance, and then I'll be like, hey,
what's the what's the middle path? So if the culture
for the last unteen decades has been going to this
left path where it's like woman centric or woman dominant,
and now we're seeing a rebound where men are like, no,
it's male dominant, and it's and it's about man. Neither
one of these are correct. Marriage is about the marriage,
which is both the husband and the wife. The goal
of the husband's leadership is to create a secure environment
for the wife so that she can thrive. You don't
do that by dominating her, you know, And and I've
preached on this numerous I mean, I've been married for
twenty two years, and I'm one hundred percent like, uh,
the husband is ahead of the house. The wife is
is in submission to him. But I'll tell anybody, look,
there is maybe two or three three times a year
where I actually have to tell my wife like, sweetheart,
I love you and I value your opinion on this,
but like this is what has to happen, and this
is what we're doing. I mean, we're talking two three
times a year. The rest of the time, I'm looking
for her input, what works for her, how we can
work together on something, whatever else. Why, Because it's about
the harmony, and the harmony and the integrity of the
marriage is two people becoming one. It's not about one
person becoming dominant over the other person. And the other
person in kind of this quote unquote submission role where
they're being they're not just being submissive, they're being dominated.
You know, my wife is an adult woman. She doesn't
need me to tell her to do everything. I don't
need to give my wife a schedule for the day
or for the week or tell her what she needs
to get done. She's an adult. Why would I have
a relationship with it with a woman? With my wife specifically,
where I'm treating her as if she's an adolescent. And
I actually see a lot of this language where the
men are creating kind of a quote unquote and the
men are not really men, but for the sake of conversation,
the males are creating this kind of adult adolescent dynamic
between the two of them where one is dominating the other.
She she needs me to tell her to do she
needs me to figure everything out and tell her to
do things and instruct her and all. It's like, I
don't know, man, maybe you married like somebody who has,
you know, developmental problems or something, because like a normal
human being who's an adult can figure out what to
do with their week. Well that's the daddy dom Yeah,
And I think that it's it's hard to say because again,
to be to be fair, I'm not as familiar with
that aspect of the society, Like I'm just not I'm
not very familiar with that content. So I would say, like,
I'm not familiar at all. I don't want to say
very familiar. Yeah, I'm familiar with that content. So I
don't know how that content feeds into this. I just don't.
But I think that it's it seems to be it
seems to be a rebound effect. Where again, since the
beginning of time, there has been an attempt at whatever
you want to say, authority. You know, even this is
Saint Isaac the Syrian says that, you know, Eve's attempt
to eat the fruit first was to usurp Adam's authority.
So we know that this is a temptation for women.
This does not mean that every woman gives into this.
We just know that it's a temptation for women to
try to usurp the authority of their husband. But the
counterbalance to that is that the husband is so loving, kind, nurturing, manly,
stable that she finds security and peace in his leadership.
Thought that he basically manipulates her or stuffs her into
submission and all these other things. Again, and I saw
this quote on Twitter recently, which was this guy. He
didn't even have facial hair. He was like in his
early twenties or something, which no knock and I got married.
I didn't have facial hair. I was twenty years old,
but he was so young, and he was like, yeah,
my job as the husband is telling my wife basically
what to do. And then she's supposed to do it,
and then if I'm wrong, she needs to kind of
like live with the consequences or whatever. And I was like,
that's just bad leadership, Like that's not even like that
has nothing to do with biblical marriage. You're just immature
and don't understand good leadership. Good leadership in marriage is
good leadership in any facet of life, which a good
leader as a servant leader. A good leader is somebody
that people around them say, that person is looking out
for my best interest, not their own. They're not selfish,
they're not self centered, they're not ego to they're actually
leading because it's the best use of their abilities in
this dynamic. But they make everybody a winner. And I
look at a lot of these things that guys are saying,
and I'm like, these guys are losers. So they're trying
to dominate somebody as a validation for the fact that
they don't really have it together and don't really know
what they're doing. And that's not how you have a marriage,
at least that's not how you have a marriage that
lasts long. And in fact, there's a lot of information
on I'll I'm sorry if I'm going a little bit
long on this, but there's a there's a person who
started coming to my church and she was sharing with
me some of the dynamics that happen within this kind
of reform tradition where a lot of this is being promulgated,
and some of the stories that she was telling me
about people's marriages and the way that this is you
this is a it's it's they're taking something that is biblical,
but they're I would say, they're using it really in
an abusive way. It's abuse of the power because the
use of the power becomes self serving for the husband,
it's not for the wife. And that's one of the
things I would say, is like, you know, I had
I mean not to go down at Tangent, but like,
there was a guy that I knew and probably this
is probably one of the nicest compliments anybody's ever said
to me, which he said, he's a married guy, had
had several children, doesn't go to church, but he were
family friends and he said, like, what do you do?
He's like, your wife looks at you with a lot
of respect, like she genuinely like how do you get
her to do that? And that really stuck with I mean,
that's probably one of the best compliments anyone's ever paid me.
But I really thought about him. Like one facet of
that is the fact that like my wife knows that
she is the center of like my world. And that
doesn't mean that I she knows that I don't feed
into every whim, desire, feeling, emotion. I mean, it's just
not my personality. It's not what I do as a
leader because it's not healthy, right, But she knows that
the things that I'm doing in the family, my work ethic,
and the decisions that I make are one hundred percent
to her benefit and the benefit of the children. So
she can see very clearly that the leadership model is
not a pyramid scheme where everybody at the bottom is
feeding the person at the top and they do the
least and they get all the benefits. It's the inverted
triangle right that we see in the church, which is
the leadership is actually you know, we have that inverted
triangle like this right in the church, and the leadership
is actually at the bottom, and the leadership is taking
all of the pressure and all of the weight to
carry everybody weaker than them, and they're utilizing all of
their strengths, gifts, and abilities to be a stable, resting
place for everybody else in their life. So in twenty
two years of marriage, I mean, I don't go to
my wife with my problems. My wife's not my best friend.
I never use that language, not my best friend. I
don't go to her with my problems. Why because I
want her to know I'm always available for her with
whatever she has going on. I don't. I don't unload
on her emotionally. I don't complain to her. I don't
tell her when things go wrong. You know, there's a
very much a distinct role that we have in the
relationship where she knows if I have an issue, I
will take it to another man to help me resolve it.
So that I'm always available emotionally for her to rely
on me. Those are some of the dynamics so that
she sees and then she's like, oh, he's basing his
life around you know, the good the wellness and the
good fortune of the family, and the family comes first, right,
He's not like sending me out to get a job
so he can buy a boat, or he can have
an extra vacation every year, or like, you know what,
I mean, like she sees me working seven days a
week so that she can stay home with the kids,
and all those different things, all those components are that
build the love and the admiration is because a good
leader loves and sacrifices himself for the people that are
under his care, and they know that he works harder
than anybody else. And I just I see so much
of what's being touted as leadership. It's like it just
doesn't even meet the criteria. If they were in the
corporate if they were in the corporate world and they
espouse some of these ideas about leadership, it would never
even fly. People would see right through it and just
say that just sounds like somebody who's selfish and self centered.
Speaker 3: So so you just describe a couple things to me,
leadership would be like a man has a goal for
his life, or he has a direction that he's going in,
and he can have a woman with him who agrees, Yes,
that's where I want to go too, and I will
follow you to this goal of you know, a godly.
Speaker 1: Family, or we're going to have an X amount of
money year, we're going to do you know, this is
our lives. We're missionary or whatever. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, And.
Speaker 1: It's in contrast to just acquiring someone and telling them
what to do, right, getting a wife to a lot
of the complaints that I hear online is like they
just want someone to do the chores and do the
childcare and support them free domestic invisible labor they call it.
So that the man can meet all of his goals
and get his needs met, and then once he gets
to a certain level, then he wants to kind of
level up. And that's why you see people extending getting
married for a long time, because you know, they they
call him Bob the builder, like, build my life with me,
and then once I, you know, become what I want
to be, then I will get a new woman along
with my new status and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very it's I mean, it's obviously
it's dehumanizing, right, I mean, that's like that that's the
undercurrent which is with a lot of these things. It's dehumanizing.
It's not treating women as being made in the image
of God. If you were to actually peel back a
lot of the onion layers of like what's being said
and why it's being said, it completely strips women of
their nobility. That's really what it's about. And I think
that that comes from the pornography culture. That's what that
culture does. It creates, It creates, Uh, how do you
want to put it? Females are an object for my
own gratification and basically, you know, you know, sexual fulfillment.
They're not human beings, they're not persons. It's they don't
have thoughts and feelings. And I think that I think
some of that out of just the fact that there's
two things I would say on that. Number one is
if a man conditions himself to watch a bunch of
performative things that are dehumanizing to women and only see
women as one thing, then they're just going to dehumanize
them all the time and all kinds of different context
because of that, they're not going to be able to
understand that. Number two is women are radically complex, vastly
more complex than us men like, vastly more complex, and
that complexity is dignified in the fact that it's created.
It's how a woman is expresses that she's made in
the image of God. It just is nothing there's nothing
wrong about the ways in which a woman is created.
Now that can be manifested in the wrong way. Right,
So women can be emotional. They have much much more
sensitive hormones I talked about than the recent video. I mean,
we're talking on the magnitude of literally hundreds of times
the hormones that men have, and when it comes to
estrogens and other things that create very vibrant, almost technicolor
experiences of life in a way that they kind of
soak things up in a much deeper way than men do.
There's nothing negative about that. That's not bad. Now, have
we all known women who manipulate the people around them
because of their emotional fragility and because they utilize their
emotions and their cunningness in a negative way? Yes, we've
all known people like We've all known women like that.
We've all known women who marry the most passive man
on the planet so that she can do whatever she
wants with him. And it's totally unhealthy and dysfunctional. But
the core of womanhood is not bad because of that, right,
and how women express being creating the image of God
is a good and beautiful thing. It can get out
of whack, but it's the same thing with being a man. Right,
we know that men are strong and can be and
can be strong leadership types. And yet we know lots
of men who have utilized their power, influence, and position
to manipulate and subjugate other people. It's the misuse of
what was created in the image of God. So the
core facets of a woman are not they're not bad,
they're not malformed. They're made in the image of God.
They're beautiful and wonderful. The problem is most men really cultivating, loving,
nourishing and bringing along a woman is literally beyond their
skill set, and they don't know how to handle it.
And they don't know how to handle a real woman.
They don't know how to connect with them while correcting them,
without without validating them, without you know, subjugating them. You
know that there's this love and this trust that happens
in marriage, even to the point where you know, I
you know that, even to the point now at twenty
two years of marriage where my wife is like, just
please help me to understand this and what I need
to do now. Did my wife do that in the
first year or two of marriage. No, of course not.
You know, that's not what happens in marriage. In fact,
I probably need to make a video at some point.
But there is a whole process in marriage really where
a woman grows in her trust and love and admiration
for her husband. And it takes time, it really does.
We live in a fallen world where there can be
a distrustful element that kind of seeps its way into
marriage that women are concerned about. The point being with
all of that, which is back to this issue of
coorn and how that affects people. You know, when a
man does not when a man is not able to
enjoy and interact with the woman and she cannot express
herself as a normal woman with the kind of technicolor
experience of what it is to interact with the woman,
he's trying to turn her into somebody that's black and white.
M hm. So she cleans, she cleans, she up keeps,
and then she gives them, you know, sex, and that's it,
and that's what she's good for, and that's you know,
it's it's it's incredibly dehumanizing, is what it is, which
is what corn is. Corn Is is dehumanizing. They take
somebody who's creating the image of God, who could become
a saint, who could become deified with the Holy Spirit,
and makes them basically, you know, an icon of the
devil and a means by which the passions of lust
are are fed and fermented into a person's soul. It's atrocious.
Speaker 1: So it's being positive, and I think it's because of
like the corn culture and just this is the paradigm
that this generation views women in. Now, it's being positive
that evil comes into the world through women. How can
you refute that?
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. It reminds me of a story,
and it's so good. It's so good it highlights us.
When I was in college, we went to a small
Dutch Neil Calvinist college called Redeemer up in Canada, and
I think it was a woman's dorm. Uh. And they
had written on the window on the first floor. So
there's like kind of like two story apartment building dorms
kind of things or houses. They were like houses, I guess,
I think. Anyways, and somebody had written on the window
where would man be without woman? Without women? Question mark?
And then another a guy had come up and wrote
in another marker the garden.
Speaker 1: Oh uh huh.
Speaker 2: So it was like so, but it was like, this
is actually the highlight of everything that's wrong with the
Garden of Eden. Right, so like women are like they
see themselves as being self referential, as like the height
of all creation. And the man, he doesn't take responsibility
for the fact that like men would not be in
the garden. Men didn't lose the garden because of women. Right,
that's Adam's whole problem twofold. According to the fathers, number
one is that he blames Eve, so he doesn't take responsibility.
And then number two, the father say he doesn't repent.
In fact, when Christ initially the preincarnate logos in the
garden questions Adam and Eve, the fathers as they say,
it's a period of time before he returns, and they
actually get expelled from the garden. They said, if in
that time Adam and Eve had repented, they would have
remained in the garden, but they failed to repent, and
in fact Adams Adam's response is this all happened because
you God gave me the woman. So if you notice
this is the distinction between a good leader and a
bad leader, right, A good leader takes responsibility for their decisions.
A bad leader pawns those decisions off on another person
or blames another person. So is it surprising that men
today are still blaming women for everything that's wrong. No,
because that's that is that is men, in their weakness,
failing to take responsibility for their maturation who they are.
It's an interesting thing because men are like, I've we
don on this recently. Men are like, we are the
most powerful. But then they also go, well, but women
are subjecting us or subjugating us, Right, who's the most powerful?
Speaker 1: Then yes, you don't see what the top of the dominance,
hierarchy and the.
Speaker 2: Ass right, you don't get to be a victim at
the top, because that means that somebody else is really
at the top. The whole thought process is like, oh,
I'm the top, but women are so mean and bad
they like get me, and then they're doing this to me,
and now I'm a victim. It's like, well, then women
are the most powerful, so that it actually proves your point.
So the only way for you to really counteract that
is to say men are the most powerful. The men
today are terrible at leadership and understanding and leading women,
and so because of that, we've created a dynamic where
women are usurping men's authority because men are pathetic. So
men are supposed to be here, but they're and women.
So if you look at objectively, men are supposed to
be here. Women are supposed to be here more in
their roles, not in their worth. There's a difference. Men
and women are both creating the image of God and
have equal value. But men are created to have this
particular role of leadership. Women are created to have this
particular role of following. But because men are poor leaders,
they they end up subjecting themselves to the leadership of women.
And why does that happen? This is the number one thing.
Why does that happen? Because men don't follow God. If
men follow The number one thing that you see probably
in relationships, right, this is a little off the cuff,
but a little number one thing you kind of see
is you see women manipulating men. Women are more are
in when it comes to psychological conversations, the use of
emotion and the use of words, women are vastly more
superior than men. They have a better vocabulary, they have
a better grasp on their feelings, they have all these
different things that they have like a whole tool chest
at their disposal, right when it comes to communication, and
they tend to be superior communicators in this realm of
interpersonal dynamics. Okay, men are superior when you're communicating about
war strategy, chess engineering, or whatever else. But when it
comes to interpersonal dynamics, women are far superior. Men do
not know how to engage that in a normal, healthy
way and still remain a kind of in their position
as the leader. They don't know how to do that
because they don't subject themselves to God. They don't have
that grace from God in order to be a good leader.
The thing is, a man cannot be a good man
without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And so men
think that they're going to be men and leaders and
all this without the grace of the Holy Spirit, and
it doesn't work. They can't do it because they because
they become intimidated, they become afraid, they don't know what
to say, they don't know how to control themselves, They
overreact emotionally, they don't know how to communicate well. Right.
All of those are a byproduct of the fact that
they are They are underdeveloped in the primary areas that
they're underdeveloped with God. If their relationship with God was
in the right place, their relationship with their wife would
be in the right place.
Speaker 1: As well, And we do a lot of our work
in research about how this was designed to be this
way on purpose to raise people in a very narcissistic way,
in a way that they have you know, arrested development
in this aon of Horus they call it. So everybody
is going to be childish, nobody's going to be mature
enough to actually be the type of person that it
should be in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Well, I mean one of the things that
one of the things that men are afraid of men
are men fall into people pleasing. They fall into people pleasing,
and they want to make women happy. And so that's
not a bad thing that men want to make women happy.
That's a that's not a bad vulnerability. But what ends
up happening is they become intimidated by the emotions that
they experience when they don't make a woman happy, and
so they're not able to differentiate themselves in good decisions
from the negative experience. A good healthy man has an
emotional stability that's on his own. He's already locked in,
and so he's able to kind of weather the storms
sometimes of what maybe his wife in a more vulnerable
state or given over to an emotional at temptation will
throw at him. How do men become like that? Well,
they have to have a relationship with God. They have
to become stabilized. They have to become normal and healthy men.
If not, then they then they're just they're they're tossed
to and fro. You know, I've experienced this so many
times as a priest. I mean, I'll have a woman
who comes to me. Typically it's it's women whose husbands
don't come to church, and they'll ask me to do
something or want something or whatever else. And sometimes it's
reasonable and I can say yes, and sometimes it's unreasonable.
It's just it's a request, it's not that's not going
to be able to be fulfilled. And they will try
to hold it against me emotionally, as if they're upset
with me, and as if I should care that they're
upset with me, And that usually is hard for them because,
as they find out really quick, I don't care if
they're upset with me. I'm like, look, first off, my
wife doesn't manipulate me like this. Second off, you're using
a manipulation that you use on your husband because it works.
And third, you need to be an adult and we
need to have a normal adult adult relationship where we
can agree and disagree on things. But I have to
remain the priest. So there's times where I have to
tell you things that you know, I simply cannot do
or they're practical or whatever else or not within my
purview as a priest. That's it. But this manipulation that
women do, which is a default, right, women kind of
default to it is very hard for men to combat
unless they have, you know, a kind of an emotional
integrity that is separated from them. Right. Men default to
a passivity. This is a problem with men, which is
they become intimidated and they and they and they default
a passivity or they or they overcompensate to super aggression, right,
and they get kind of wild on either way. Either
way they're like, Okay, just tell me what to do, honey,
or they're like, you're not going to tell me to
do anything. I'm crazy. Right, And there needs to be
that center point, but you don't get there without God.
You can't get into that centered place as a man
without God's grace. You're just not going to get there.
It's not going to happen like it's just not going
to happen.
Speaker 1: So anyways, you're absolutely right about all of that, and
what we're seeing here is a complete and total collapse
of riz and romance. So I wanted to talk to
you about romance because this is something going around. They
are saying that romance is something broke men made up
in order to extract resources from naive women. Now, this
is something I don't want to hear because I feel
like I'm a romantic person. You know, I like love
and sweetness and bunnies and hearts, and you know, I
want a healthy relationship. Is romance faith? I mean, when
you go into an Orthodox church, that's a very romantic place, right,
It's adorned with gold and jewels and pictures of your
loved ones, and there's candles, there's flowers, you're kissing everything.
I mean, how can it get more romantic than that?
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's one of those things again,
is like we just EXPI I think men and women
like experience things so radically different that one of the
healthiest things that we can do, which we've not been
able to do in our society, is let each other
just be ourselves. So right in seventeen years or whatever
being Orthodox. I've never thought that the Orthodox Church was romantic.
But when you say it, I go, that makes sense.
She's a woman. That's where she sees.
Speaker 1: That's where you get married, that's where you take your Maria.
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful thing. But see, that's a beautiful thing.
I'll never see it that way, right, I'll just never
see I talked to a guy yesterday on the phone
who's coming to Orthodoxy, and he said, I've been listening
to Orthodox trant and he said it's like battle hymns.
And I was like, and I was laughing, but I
was thinking, no woman describes Orthodox chances battle hymns. They don't. Right.
We have things within us that resonate with us. It's
not a it's not a it's not an objective, and
it's not a good or bad. It's very much subjective
to who we are creating the image of God. And
that's not a bad thing. Right. So like when we
talk about romance, it's like, I'm not really a romantic person,
like most men are not, like the majority of men
are not. But I want to do things for my
wife because I love and adore my wife, and they
speak to my wife in that way, right, So so
we express it's very very very very clear. We express
affection for each other in ways that we want that
same affection be expressed to us, but we're so different
that we don't really do it, right. I mean, this
is why so much of the confusion around the genders
happens is because I think what happened in our society
is like one we've been constantly trying to dominate each
other and not exist harmoniously. But for us to exist
harmoniously within the church, we really have to allow each
other to be ourselves. And so you know, an example
of that when you talk about romance is unlike any
man who's been married for more than a minute knows
that his wife loves romance. And that's an expression of
who she is as a woman. It just is. And
that's a fine thing. There's nothing wrong with that. That's
a beautiful thing. That's like, I mean, you know, to
this day, there was a there is an anniversary. I
hope my wife doesn't see this. There is an anniversary
where I like planned this trip, I like created a
map and we went to all these different places and
did all these different things. To this day, she still
remembers the anniversary. She doesn't remember any of the other
ones right because it was like, oh my goodness, that
was just we did this and we did that, and
we'd like there was so many different things that we
did and that was like, you know why, because that's
that speaks to her soul. Do I remember that as
being significant? No, No, it's just why I'm not really romantic.
I just don't care about those things. It doesn't speak
to me at all. Is that a bad thing, No,
it's just it's it's uh, it's just who we are,
right like the other For instance, I'll give you another example.
The other night, we were lifting weights in the garage
and my wife brought the baby out front and we were,
I don't know, doing something. We were deadlifting and she
had to bring the baby upfront to get to the
car or something like that, and I said, hey, watch
me hit this deadlift. And I hit this super fast
deadlift and was just like all amped and the guys
were like, everybody's pumped up. She's like, that's great, And
then she sent me a text She's like, good job
on the deadlift. That looked great or something.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: I just like it you know, it's like it's like
none of the guys are like, oh, yeah, you know
what I mean. Nobody's like, oh, like that was really
good father, you know, that's that right. But your wife
does that right because she's being sweet and cuddly and
kind for the same way that she wants that to
be shown to her. That's fine, that's fine. I think
that this is the thing that I that I look
at with a lot of what the men are talking
about is they're like, oh, these things about women are preposterous,
and it's like they're not. They're just women. There's nothing
abnormal or weird about them. Like and like I love women,
so like, you know, like they liked the chit chat.
Like for instance, I work out three days a week
with two of my godsons. I mean we probably have
you know, we probably use sub five hundred words the
whole work out for two hours. You know what I mean.
If there is something that's said, it's probably maybe hypothetically
to make fun of somebody or whatever else, or to
like tease somebody or to like push somebody right to
do something. Why is that? Because we're men and we're
just being men doing man stuff and that's what we enjoy,
you know. And then on Tuesday nights the women will
come over to our house for the women's group, and
you know there's times where we just chitchat for like
an hour straight on just whatever, and it's just small talk,
conversation whatever else. Why is that women love that stuff
if they just do nothing wrong with that? Just nothing
wrong with that at all. And I think that's what
I think. The part that irritates me today is that
like people are trying to create all these hard boundaries
of like I don't know what's acceptable based on their
own gender, and it's like, oh, like what men are
doing is completely normal for men, and what women are
doing is completely normal for women. That's why we see
so many similarities in what people are doing, right, like
it because it comes natural. It's not a fake thing.
So anyways, romance is one of those things. It's just
women love it. They love it, you know.
Speaker 1: Is it could it be like a form of you know,
asceticism or like, h I mean that's the purpose of
marriage is to serve somebody else right in the way
that they feel. Yeah, so let's talk about that for
a second. What is the purpose? Because people are abandoning
the entire institution at a very alarming rate. And I
want to ask you some more questions specifically about that,
but let's just go over real quick. What is the
purpose of getting married?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the purpose of being married, fundamentally is
to be deified, to become like Christ. Right, So the
marriage works as kind of a background. You know, it's
kind of like a gym. Why do you own a gym.
You own a gym to get strong and to get
big and get into shape. You don't own a gym
for the sake of having a gym. That's not the
point of having the gym is to have a gym. Right,
So the purpose of the marriage is not to have
a marriage. The purpose of the marriage is that it
would be transformative for the two of you to make
both of you more into the image of Christ. And
so all of the disagreements, all of the hardships, the
asceticisms of self denial, all of the facets that go
into marriage are the training ground for making you more
like Christ. That's why we have the crowns of martyrdom.
I mean, it's an ironic thing, right, we have the
crowns of martyrdom and then I just did a wedding
yesterday actually ironically. But you have the crowns of martyrdom
that you wear during your service, right in your marriage
service in the Orthodox Church, when people are like, oh,
it's king and queen or prince and princess, and it's
like romantic, it's not. It's crowns of martyrdom. Well, the
next question is who's martyring you? That's the person standing
right all right? Why? Because they get impatient with you,
they get selfish, they do this, they say something unkind.
You've got to turn the other cheek. You've got to
forgive them seventy times seven. You've got to love them. Right.
All of the beatitudes get into all of the Gospel
of Christ and all of his teachings, and the beatitudes
come into play in the marriage when you love that
other person who at times feels like an enemy, and
that's normal. That's like a normal marriage where those things happen.
And in that process you learn to love God and
you learn to love them more than you love yourself.
And the marriage and that's what the marriage is complete
in and of itself, that's what it is now as
it comes to creating a family, which we know is
one of the primary aspects of the marriage service. Even
right when we read all yesterday I married a couple
in their I want to say their late forties or so.
But they're not having their past having children maybe early fifties. Okay,
they're not having kiddos anymore. And they've already been married
for a couple of years and they're not having kiddos.
All the prayers in the service are still about having kids.
You know, there's hunting prayers in the service about having children.
What is the purpose of having a family again, it's
to expand on that asceticism that's self denial in whatever else.
But what else does the service talk about? The service
also talks about whatever rich bounty you experience in the marriage,
that you would take care of other people. And so
for this couple yesterday, when I gave the homily at
the end, I said, look, the two of you are
like pillars in our community. We can rely on you.
You're trustworthy. They have God children in the church, you
know what I mean. They have an example to set
by their marriage. Right. So, some people within marriage are
blessed with the family, and sometimes for various reasons, people
are not blessed with the family. The point is is
that the marriage is still about deification, and the marriage
is still supposed to be a platform or a springboard
for blessing the people around us. So if we're not
we if we're not raising children because that's not a
part of our marriage, we should still be working hard
to raise the other children in the parish. We still
should be offering help to the people in the parish
who have kids. We should be volunteering our time to
babysit or to do this or to do that. Or
we see somebody struggling financially, going well, hey, we don't
have kids, we'll help them out financially. We'll do these
different things. Right, So, when somebody has kids, all of
their energy and to focus and attention goes to the
kids within the marriage, and all of that is for
their salvation. But fundamentally, with or without children, the marriage
is about blessing the family of God. That's what it's about.
The two of you are supposed to become even more
rooted and grounded in your faith. In fact, there's even
that beautiful story. I can't remember who it was, but
it was a saint who had I can't remember how
many children. She had, five or ten children or something,
and then a plague came through everyone in her family died,
all of her children died, and then she adopted all
of the children that were lost after the plague, became
the mother to all of them. And then there's also
like Saint Ea in Ireland who is called the Mother
of Saints because she was a monastic at a at
an orphanage, and then a number of the boys and
trusted to do her care became saints. She became a saint.
Also Ida e Man I can't remember, but she's an
Irish saint. The point is is that like in whatever
place that we find ourselves, in marriage with or without children,
with or without a family, everything about the marriage is
to sanctify us, to make us less concerned with ourselves,
more concerned with the church family, and to take care
and to bless the people around us. That's what marriage
is about. And the irony is all of our teaching
in our society is the more that you make life
about yourself, the more fulfilled you'll be. And the and
this is a complete contradiction of the Gospel. The more
that you make your life about Christ the more that
your life is fulfilled, the more that you make your
life about other people, the more fulfilled you are. The
most selfish people are one hundred percent the most miserable people,
the most selfless, giving generous people in the church one
hundred percent are always the happiest, best adjusted, most wonderful
to be around people. It's just the way that it is,
you know. It's like Christ says, whoever loses their life
shall gain it. So the person who's trying to keep
their life compartmentalized and tucked away and meet and tidy
and all to themselves, those are the people who always
struggle with the most with neuroticism and OCD and and
you know, self love and selfishness and fear of finances
and all this. And the people who just give it
all away are the people who live with the most
freedom and the most joy and the most love. They
are always the people you want to emulate in the church.
Speaker 1: So the primary purpose is the salvation, and then the
family or the children is sort of a secondary outcome
of the marriage.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I mean it's a natural it is quote
unquote a natural extension of the marriage. Okay, it doesn't happen,
but it is part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying this because on Twitter, on the Internet,
there's a big push for you know, getting married, to
start a family for this express purpose of having children.
And then it gets weird when they start calling women
too old in their twenties. You know, you're twenty five,
you're past your prime for having kids, and they call
them things like you're an empty egg carton. And then
you see them advocating for large age gap relationships. So
this is a hot issue that they've been talking about.
So a lot of the manuscript people are pushing for
overseas relationships, they call it passport bros. And large age
gap relationships up to you know, twenty twenty five years.
And so I wanted to get your opinion on that.
I have my own opinions on those things, but I
know those type of marriages can be blessed, but they
also have their unique challenges too.
Speaker 2: Well. I mean, one thing we should be clear on
is that anything more than a sixteen year gap between
husband and wife within the Orthodox Church requires a blessing
from the bishop. I see, Okay, so that's an abnormality.
So for a woman to be fourteen years older than
the husband is an abnormality. And for the husband to
be more than sixteen years older than the wife is
an abnormality. And why is it Because those are traditional
ages that people had children. Right, Well, if the husband
is sixteen years older than the wife, technically he's old
enough to be her father. So I mean, this stuff
doesn't really surprise me because man's hearts are wicked and
they're warped, you know, and they're not looking again, they're
not looking for people. They're looking for a scenario or
something idealized. But it's very divorced from humanity. It's divorced
from realction. So in that way, I'm like, it's just
it doesn't surprise me. I think it's just I think
it's just part of the kind of illness of the society.
It's a manifestation of the illness of like again, trying
to find your happiness or this or that or whatever
in something like this again, this kind of quote unquote
traad lifestyle. Wait, people have three kids, and then there'll
be all the people saying, you know, you're better off
not having kids. Like trust me, Like the five years
down the line when people start having kids and they
realize how much work it is and how brutal it
is and everything else and how hard it is. These
people are trying to escape responsibility, not embrace responsibility. So
they're going to find out pretty quick that, you know,
having kids is not the solution. And we see that
actually is funny enough. We see that with the boomers.
The boomers had kids not because they wanted kids, They
had kids because they thought they should have kids. Now
you have kind of a different pelum where people go, oh,
if you have kids, it's going to make you happy
and fulfill you and do all this, and it's like,
that's that's not human beings don't fulfill you. They just don't.
They're wonderful. I mean, I love all the people around me,
but they don't fulfill me. They don't make me feel complete,
you know what I'm saying. Like I was complete as
complete as I am now before I ever had kids.
Speaker 1: Christ is when it completes us, right.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Yeah, it's not other people a
marriage doesn't. I mean again, that's another red flag when
people are like, oh, if I just get married, then
I'll be like whole or complete or I'll be happy.
How many people I see to go, oh, I'll be
happy when I get married, and it's like, you're not
going to be happy when you get married, and sure
enough they're not happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is so the idea of like, oh,
I'll have kids and then I'll be happy, or then
our marriage will be better or then this, or it's
like it doesn't work like that. And you know, as
the boomers found out, which people don't seem to kind
of have missed that lesson in history, which was children
don't make you happy, don't fulfill you, they don't make
you complete, they don't do whatever. They're an absolute ton
of hard work and you can never spend enough time
with them because you've got all kinds of other especially
as a husband, you've got all kinds of other engagements
that you have to participate in in order to make
money for the family. So you spend periods of time
with them. But they're humans, and they have they have
exaggerated faults at times, you know, overly dramatic. They're exceptionally
needy and all these other things. It's all good because
if you're there to serve them and love them, it's fine.
But they're not there to serve you or make your
life better. You know, someone when a kid wakes up
at two in the morning and their bed sheet is
like covered in vomit, like, they're not there to make
you feel great about your life. You're there to get
them out of bed, not wake your wife up because
she's got a baby or whatever else. You're gonna clean
off the blanket, You're gonna get them showered, you're gonna
fix the bed, take care of them, and then put
them back to sleep. And then an hour later they're
gonna wake up and vomit and do the whole thing
over again. And then you're gonna do that three or
four times in a night. Then the next night the
other kid is gonna start throwing up, and then you're
gonna do that for four or five nights at a time.
That's not like, oh man, this is the beat. I
love being a dad. It's the best experience ever, you know, Yeah,
it's live. I love my kids. And I think that
that's where it gets weird is that people are like,
it's so divorced. I just think it's so divorced from
the person that it's all become everything becomes an idea
of you know what I mean. And I think the
other thing is too, where goes like, oh, I'm gonna
have a huge family. I always like pump the brakes,
wait till you have your third kid and then we'll like,
we'll see what really happens, you know.
Speaker 1: M hm. A lot of this too, I think comes
from the evolutionary biology ideology of the red pill and
the manosphere. I mean, they all believe in evolution. They
believe that it's your only imperative is to spread your
seed before you die. And that's where they get these
ideas that you know, you have to have as many
children as possible, as soon as possible, and the child
bearing years for men and women is different, so like
it's okay for a forty five year old to marry
you know, a twenty year old because he can still
reproduce and she has you know, a shelf life. But
then this goes into their ideas about you know, infidelity,
adultery and cheating too, because they are still in that
evolutionary mindset, which you agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think these people have very I mean again,
it's a very whacked out and poisonous thought process. So,
I mean, the reality is for all of us in
fifty to one hundred years. Nobody's gonna remember us, right,
so to fight against that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's jump into some like actual Twitter questions.
These are mine, But like, should men be able to cheat?
Speaker 2: I mean not if you want to have a good,
loving relationship with your wife? I mean, yeah, Is.
Speaker 1: It different when men cheat than when women cheat?
Speaker 2: I do think that there's different. How can I put this? No,
I mean no, there's there's no difference. I think that
I do think that the culture is probably right in
assessing that men tend to cheat due to lust and
manifestations of lust that they've cultivated in their heart, and
women cheat for more of the affirmation, attention, romantic side
of things that they're looking for. I do think that
the culture probably understands that. But it's one worse than
the other, or more damaging to the relationship then the other.
I don't think so. I mean, the whole premise of
a wife's relationship with her husband is that the husband
has to be the one man that she can trust.
So if a man cheats, the relationship is dead in
the water. She knows fundamentally she can never trust him.
Now Likewise, a husband has the sense with his wife
that she's the one person in the world that's devoted
to him. And if she cheats, then obviously that destroys
that narrative for their marriage and for their relationship. So
both are equally catastrophic.
Speaker 1: What if she gains weight in the marriage or becomes unattractive,
is she not fulfilling her wifely duties.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be honest with you and I'll say
I think both people have a responsibility in the marriage
to maintain a similar physique to what they brought into
the marriage. I think that's a responsibility. Yeah, I mean,
I don't think that it's acceptable for men to get
super out of shape and out of weight and everything else.
It's not healthy, it's not good, it's not attractive. I
likewise don't think that it's that it's that, you know, again,
if the sub context to all this is that we
love each other and that we're trying to do the
best for each other, then I think it's a no
brainer that a wife should strive to maintain a similar
physique to what she had when she got married. Within reason, right, Like,
my wife has had five kids within the last ten years,
and obviously there are physical changes that take place just
based on the fact that you've had five kids and
ten years and I'm very very attracted to her, and
she's done a phenomenal job, you know, staying very similar
to how she was when we first met. I think
that's important. I don't think that you can. Attraction is
something that's very important in a marriage, just is it's
very important that you're attracted to the person that you're
married to. I think that we create a false narrative
when we say, oh, you know, we should just be
you know, accepting of I don't know whatever, you know one.
I mean, think about it this way. If somebody goes
and gains let's say seventy five pounds, well they've done
that because they've been un self controlled, they've not exercised,
they've not taken so right, so they've kind of neglected themselves.
And then the response to that is we should just
accept it, and it's like, well, you should still love them.
The love and the nurture should be paramount. Obviously, you
want to be in a marriage where if somebody does
put on some extra weight, which can happen, you converse
about it in a healthy, normal way and say, hey,
you know, this is kind of what's happening, or maybe
this is kind of a direction that we're trending. Let's
work on this together so that we don't, you know,
go down a pathway where it's unmanageable, right, I mean,
you're not going to marry a girl at one hundred
and twenty five pounds and then after humpting kids and
twenty years later she's going to be one hundred and
twenty five pounds and that's just not human bio. I mean,
that's just very very unrealistic.
Speaker 1: Going into the marriage. You have to have these expectations
that they are going to change over time, and that's
something that we all age. I mean, you can't stop that.
So where do you draw the line between like you
betrayed me by getting ugly.
Speaker 2: The weird thing is is that there should be a
natural age process that takes place. But I think specifically
when we get into the the issue of physical bodies
and weight gain and whatever, you know, I can't remember
what it was, but it was it was, you know,
I can't remember. Fifty years ago or something, they did
a study and the average woman was five foot five,
right in one hundred and twenty five pounds or something,
and today the average woman is five foot five and
like one hundred and eighty pounds or something like this.
So obviously diet, lack of exercise, and other things have
contributed to a general move towards obesity within our culture,
which is not healthy. Right. Obesity is not good for anybody.
So I think that again, it's every couple is different.
Every couple needs to I think, have that conversation. But
I do think that there is some justification that's happening
in the culture, as if like because you have children,
you know you're gonna just suddenly miraculously put on fifty
pounds or something. That's not realistic, Like you're gonna put
on weight when you have the baby. The baby's gonna
come off, and then there's gonna be a process of
nursing and you know, getting back into shape. That's normal
and healthy. I don't think that it's I mean, again,
if somebody said, you know, father, my wife is sixty
and she's wrinkly, it's like that's what happens to everybody,
Like that's normal, that's normal. I think that when we
get into specifically something regarding weight gain, weight gain is
within our control everybody is subject to the laws of thermodynamics,
so every single human being unless the laws of physics
do not pertain to a person. Now, people may have
slower metabolisms or this or that or whatever, but the
reality is is that all of human weight on some
level has to do with calories in and calories out.
Not gain weight in a caloric deficit. It's an impossibility.
But we live in a society where people are eating
fast food two times a day. They don't realize it's
twenty five hundred calories a meal, and then they're eating
a dinner at night, and now all of a sudden
they're over three thousand calories for the day. They just
don't understand how calorie rich our food is. And so
it's not to point the finger, but to say, look,
if you eat according to what the society kind of
offers you, it will tend to obesity. Because we as
a nation, I think, are the still I think, the
most obese nation in the world. Somber one. Yeah, so
this is not a genetic abnormality, but actually the byproduct
of what we're eating in our sedentary life. So again
I think within and I think the thing that I
said earlier is true too, which is I think each
couple needs to talk about it. And you know I
would if you know, if I stopped working out and
got way over out of shape and my wife came
to me and said, sweetheart, you know, like this isn't attractive,
I would strive to get back into shape. Like I
owe that to her because like she married me when
I was in shape, and she married you know, she
had an expectation that I would do things to the
best of my ability to maintain my physique. I don't
think there's anything weird or wrong about that. I think
it goes both ways.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have a little cartoon here that went around.
People were arguing about it. I don't know if you
can read that, but it says.
Speaker 2: Stay, oh yeah, he just of marriage.
Speaker 1: And she's got a cute butt in the beginning, and
then she gets frumpier and fatter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So this was kind of a roar shock test, honestly,
to see how people would react to this. And so
they're saying this is the number one cause of divorce,
which I think that's kind of funny because in each
picture he's sitting while she's working, and if you know
anything about women's hell. I mean, I know you're into health,
but you probably don't know the female side of it.
We lose weight very differently. Our metabolisms are a lot different.
Cortisol and stress and overwork can lead to weight gain
in women, not so much for men. But not having
proper rest leads to weight gain in women a lot.
Have you seen that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, I think it comes back to
this issue regarding the laws of thermodynamics, which is, you
have a caloric You have a basic caloric daily requirement, right,
which is a calories, which is calories are a function
of energy that you need to eat every day to
maintain that weight. Now, there are things that affect how
many calories you need to eat every day, one of
which being your hormones, one of which being your thyroid.
Another example of that that could be your metabolism. Certain
foods affect certain people a certain way. Like some people
can eat really high carb diets and be fi et
a high carb diet and it's great for me. Other
people eat high carb and they have their body does
a really good job of storing that as fat. Right,
they have that conversion process that takes place. But there
are some. Again, there's still fundamental laws that govern the universe,
which is, if you are burning two thousand calories a
day and you're eating twenty one hundred calories a day
over the course of sixteen days, you're going to put
on a pound. Essentially. It's just that's what's going to happen.
So you have to have that basic metabolic understanding of
how your body works, what foods are good for you,
what foods aren't. Like, we don't eat a lot of protein.
I mean, I can't tell you. Many times I talk
to women, like how much protein do you eat? And
people say they go, oh, I'm eating like fifty grams
of protein a day. And it's like protein does not
ever basically convert into fat. It is super dense. Right.
So you can get a steak and I was talking
about this the other day. You can get a steak
that's like this big, that's six hundred calories. Then if
you eat those six hundred calories, you will be completely
full and satiated and not want to eat anything else.
You can go to McDonald's and buy a big Mac
which will leave which has very little protein, has tons
of carbs, tons of process basically sugars in it and
is nine hundred calories and you'll still be hungry at
the end of it. So there are aspects to which
our bodies respond to certain foods, but fundamentally the law
of thermodynamics cannot be you know, how do you want
to put it violated? Right? You burn a certain amount
of calories every day, so you need a certain amount
of calories to stay at that weight. If you eat
less calories, your body will dip into the fat stores
and start to burn excess calories and you will start
to lose weight. That's how it works for everybody. There's
nobody who's exempted from this. This is this is this is,
this is how God created the universe. Right. But I
think the problem is is that we have very very
bad portion control, huge problem, huge, huge problem. We have
very very bad food selection, huge problem. We have low protein,
high carbon harb high fat diets, enormously bad problem. We
have processed foods that are full of sugars and other things, right,
that are not calorically dense, so you can eat a
little something and it has a huge caloric return on it. Right,
So all of those things are within our abilities to
change and to modify our eating habits, our exercise and
the things that we're doing. I don't think in a
marriage your wife gaining weight right in the whole, even
in that even in that analogy or in the comic right,
there's no point at which the husband's actually talking to
the wife or even engaging her. He's like watching TV
or something, right, So they're not putting anything together, they're
not exercising together, they're not having a conversation about it. Like,
if somebody were to ask me, what is probably the
number one problem in marriages? One both people lacking a
lot of spiritual depth, lacking very strong relationships with God
would be number one. Now, if you said, what do
you think it is on the human level, I would say,
and I've talked to lots of couples over the years,
I would say, you know, really, number two falls into
the violation of Saint Paul's commandments. Wives honor your husbands
and husbands love your wives. So most often I find
in a marriage that a wife is not honoring her husband,
she's not respectful to him, she doesn't treat him with deference,
and the husbands don't have love for their wives. When
a husband doesn't love his wife. It is catastrophic. Women
know when they are loved, and when they're being loved,
they can sense it with their whole being. They you know,
women have that super sense to know when they're loved,
when they're valued, when they're cherished and are And if
the husband does not put that out for whatever reason,
it's not because of her weight. It is one hundred
percent because he feels emasculated. He doesn't have a good
relationship with God himself. That's huge. He doesn't know how
to communicate, He is exhausted from life right and is
not being refilled by the Holy Spirit. All of those
things factor into that. But never, ever, ever, ever, in
a marriage pretty much have I ever looked and said, oh,
you know, that woman is like, is really struggling and
she's got a great husband. I just I mean, I
can't even recall one marriage where I said, oh, she's
really struggling, but her husband's just like a plush. The
majority of the time with the husband, it's like, buddy, like,
your wife knows what's going Like. The problem is, it's
like for men to open their heart up, they have
to open their heart to God. They have to find
their worth, their value everything in God. They have to
find who they are in God so that they are
completely rooted and situated and solid in who they are.
And then they can open their heart up to the
people around them and they can take you know, they
can they can bring other people into themselves. So when
a man's heart is malformed because he doesn't feel loved
by God, he doesn't open his heart up to God.
His heart is always kind of is retarded, it's not
formed correct, and so he does doesn't have You know,
you never look at a bad marriage and go, man,
that guy just loves his wife, right, you know, You're
like he resents her and and she does. She knows
that he resents her. Like how many marriages have I
talked to? Where I go, the wife resents the husband
and is disrespectful, and the husband can't stand the wife,
and she knows that. And because she's being rejected by him,
even if she's done things that have hurt him, wounded him,
whatever else, the fact that she's being rejected by him
makes just throws her out. She just wives just tend
to just spin out because it's like a core aspect
of who they are is wanting to be loved, right,
And the other thing is too. I have to tell
people this. Like, look, in twenty two years of marriage,
I've never thought like, oh, my my wife doesn't love
me enough. Men don't think like this, like he don't.
Now hypothetically, there's been some times where I'm like, ah,
she could change that tone of voice, you know what
I mean. But in our marriage have there been times
where my wife has been like you, you're not loving
me enough. And then when I'm really on, I'm like, man,
she's right, I'm frustrated about this or on this or
that or whatever else or these things are you know,
coming into you know ahead, I'm overworked, I'm stressed, whatever.
She's right, I don't have I'm not I'm not giving
her enough of my heart. And that's like, dude, that's
that's a life force for your wife. Is that you're
just constantly like pumping a love, attention and affection her way.
I mean it is. It's like I mean, I it's
like if you could, if if you, if I could
just teach guys how to get into that, Like so
many times even with guys where I'm like, you know,
how often do you tell your wife she's beautiful? How
often do you tell her that you love her. How
much do you compliment her on her her parenting or
whatever else. So often guys are like, well, like, I
don't know, like and I'm like, this is stuff you
got to be doing every single day and it's and
people are like, oh, this is the work you put
into marriage, Like, this isn't work, this is this is
a normal aspect of having a healthy relationship. You spend
time listening to your wife every day, talk about her day,
the struggles that she's having, the things that are overwhelming her.
That's normal, that's being a husband. You love her, you
encourage her, You are affectionate to her in a non
forgive me, but in a non sexual way. You're you're
because women love a lot of that, just being touched
and being loved in a way that is just I
just love you for you. When you do all those things,
you know, there's no problem with affection in the marriage.
But so often, so many guys are not doing any
of those things, and then they're like, oh, my wife
doesn't want to again. This is again one of those
constant things that you see on the Oh my wife
doesn't want to sleep with me. Oh, we don't have
normal marital relations whatever else. And I'm like, I feel
like now you of the time, Like, dude, I know
I could diagnose this marriage, but I was around them for
like thirty minutes during a dinner and see everything that
they have, all the dynamics they have going on. But
fundamentally that husband is not feeding his wife the love
and the attention and the affection that she needs and
the leadership and the leadership that she needs.
Speaker 1: Is monogamy too much to ask of men.
Speaker 2: It was got me to spit out my water there
expect that's.
Speaker 1: The consensus is that that's not fair. You can't expect
that I have a biological imperative. Boys.
Speaker 2: I think I just think it's just yeah, I mean
I just I expect that from the culture, and I
expect men to not not to be self controlled. I mean,
it's just I mean, that's really is. It'd be like saying,
is it enough to expect men to be self controlled?
Its yeah, it's enough to expect men to be self controlled.
Men have had one wife for the last several thousand years.
It has not been a hinderance, but it has become
a hindrance because men are oversaturated with sexual desires that
are perverse and that are not reasonable, and that are
not they're not going to find them within the bounds
of marriage. You know. Saint John Chris Awsom talks about
this almost you know, seventeen hundred years ago. He says,
the couples get together because of basically of lust, because
of physical what does he say, physical attraction? He says,
at most that attraction will last one year. So I
think that's actually what you see more than anything, which
is men get into these relationships, are attracted to this woman,
but they're not attracted to her in a godly way,
and the relationship is not based on a godly foundation,
and so they lose interest and they lose for her.
Speaker 1: A lot of women complain that their boyfriend or their
husband doesn't even like them. Yeah, I mean she's around
doing everything, and he keeps her because she's useful. But
they can tell, Like you just said, women know when
they're loved. They're figuring out this person doesn't even like
me despite being married to me. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's two things. I mean, number one
is I think that sorry, is that a question or like,
do you want me to comment on that?
Speaker 1: Go ahead?
Speaker 2: I think there's two things. I mean. Number one is
like women in our culture have really lost a lot
of feminine energy. They project a lot of masculine energy.
So they're argumentative, they're aggressive, they're competitive, and they seem
to value these things and sometimes even like their egotistical,
which is weird because women naturally are not like that.
It's very strange. So women are modeling a lot of
masculine behavior and a lot of masculine energy towards their partners,
and then they wonder why the man doesn't want to
be with them, and it's because men don't want to
be in a sexual relationship with another man. That's really
what it is. And women have lost a lot of
the sweet, tender femininity, caring, nurturing love, et cetera, et
cetera that they have. And again, a man can love
a woman who's like that, But if a man tries
to turn a woman like that into a sexual object,
which is again what we see why pornography is listed
as the number one reason for failed marriages, they're trying
to turn the woman into a subhuman and so they
don't love women for being women.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a term for that. They call it
spiritually gay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, And so you just.
Speaker 1: Said that the pornography was the number one cause for divorce,
and so there's a statistic going around that, you know,
women initiate eight of divorces. So are you saying that
they're initiating that because of the poor.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean again, everybody's gonna get offended by
me saying this. But women are just smarter relationally than men.
That's just a reality. Like you could be like men
are smarter, Like, look, men are smarter at chess, strategy, mathematics, engineering,
city building, running a government, or running a military. There's
so many things that men are very good at and
really better than women at. But there are things that
women are better at. And one of the things that
women are better at is relationships. And they know fundamentally, like, look,
this guy's not meeting my needs. He's not going to
meet my needs, he's not going to change, and like
he's toxic to be around. And so women are quicker
to pull the trigger on that. Men are willing just
to suffer it out in silence. The fallacy that like
women are initiating eighty percent of the divorces. There certainly
is a lot of women who have masculine energy, who
are academically changed, you know, formed and whatever else and
are and and really are insufferable to be around. There
are that is a reality in our culture. Forgive me,
but the reality is is that women are also quicker
to realize like a sinking ship and get off. Men
are more apt to go down with the ship. It's
just it's just our nature. So but I but I
think one of the things, like again it's it's the
whole chicken in the egg. Women are really good at
being women and being soft and gentle and nurturing and
kind and adoring and all of those wonderful womanly like
just absolutely majestic qualities when they feel safe, when they
feel when they feel that their husband is devoted and
that he loves them and that they're the center of
his universe, you know what I mean, Like not when
he they usurp Christ, but you know what I'm saying,
in terms of his life, they are that they are
in They are the most important person outside of God
in their life. Women know that they know that, and
so then they feel safe and then they can be feminine.
So men in our society, they don't create that safety
with women, you know what I mean through and one
of the primary ways is through lust, because a woman knows. Look,
if a guy is looking at porn all the time,
it's not a big first off. He's yeah, he's not
really being faithful to her, he doesn't really value what
is unique and special and precious about her. Right, she's
not giving she's not quote unquote giving him something that
he's not going and taking other places as well. And
then it's obviously not a hard continuance to see that.
You know, there's a very strong possibility that, given the opportunity,
he would then violate the bounds of their relationship. So
they don't feel safe. So what does that do. It
creates a scared environment where women tend to be hostile
towards men. And that's what we see a lot in
our society. Women are very hostile towards men in our society.
And as a response, you know, again, men have not
created an environment where women can be women and that
they love and enjoy women for who they are like.
And this is the thing. I genuinely have next to
nothing in common with my wife, and I genuinely love
and enjoy being with her she's like my favorite person
to be with because she's a woman. She's the energy
is different and like she has feminine energy and when
she's in that, you know, when she's just being herself.
A really it's a relief for me. It's a relaxation.
I feel calm, I feel I can't describe it. I
just I'm like I, you know, I it's where I
want to be at the end of my day. I
want to be with my wife at the end of
the day, you know. I carve out like we probably
spend the last typical we spend at least the last
hour to two hours of our day together every day,
just the two of us, every day. And it's like, why, well,
we like being together, right, So I mean, why do
you do that? It's like you enjoy the feeling of
being with that person. It's not you know, we're not
talking about world politics or anything particularly stimulating. We're just
being together doing whatever, talking about her day, watching a
part of a movie or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, what about secular marriages, so it you don't
have to try too hard to convince men to you know,
not commit. And it's getting even worse and worse, and
so it's going around now that if it's a secular marriage,
you might as well not even do it at all
because now the support is well, I don't know about that,
because there have been many, many studies proving that being
married is beneficial in every single way to men, as
far as longevity, health, stability, finances, just every area of
your life is improved by being married, no matter if
it's a secular marriage or not. But now they're like,
the core system is so bad that we're just not
gonna get married at all. We're just gonna, you know,
sleep around or do whatever we want to do. And
I just don't think if you're waiting for the core
system to be fixed, that's never gonna happen. So if
you're boycotting marriage until that day, that's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think it's like Saint Paul says,
if Christ didn't arise from the dead, eat, drink, and
be married, because tomorrow will die, right, So without Christ,
we've already established that marriage as a martyrdom. So without Christ,
if I don't try to sell things to people, because
if I try to, if I try to sell people
on marriage, is like, look, if Christ didn't rise from
the dead and he's not lord of your life. You
should try to maximize as much pleasure you can before
you die, because there's nothing. But if Christ did rise
from the dead, then you should deny yourself, pick up
your cross, and follow him. But yes, I don't think
that marriage makes logical sense for people who are not
going to live a life of martyrdom. Okay, I just
don't think it's I think it's an aesthetical feed. I
think it's like having kids. The church fathers even say
that that one of the reasons that marital relations are
so pleasurable is that it was God's way of basically
incentivizing men to have more children, because if men did
not enjoy being with their wives, most men would cap
off having kids at like one or two. Why because
it's very hard and they all come to realize this, like,
it's way harder than you think it is. So the
reason that we're incentivized to have more children is because
we enjoy the bond of marriage, right, and we allow
and we open up our marriage and specifically the wife's
womb to the will of God. If somebody is not
a Christian, I'm not going to tell them have a
bunch of kids, right, because like why, Like I'm gonna
tell them you need to repent. Now, if you repent,
you'll end up having a lot of kids, right, potentially, right,
But you know what I'm saying. So I think it's
the same thing with marriage. I mean, I don't think
that you're going to make the argument that living a
virtuous life isn't better. Living a virtuous life is better.
But all of these things that are virtuous have to
do with self denial, and for the man that's of
the flesh, as Saint Paul talks about, the virtuous life
is foolishness to him because his main objective is to
acquire pleasure, not to acquire virtue.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. Last question and then we'll be
done here. I think you answered all of my crazy
Twitter futes over here. Have you heard of the bear question?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: So let me just if you haven't heard of it.
As a woman alone in the woods, would you rather
be alone in the woods knowing there's a bear there
with you or a random man? And overwhelmingly the women
said bear. I feel much safer with a bear than
a random man because a bear can't you know, our
word me, torture me, do crazy things, keep me alive
and definitely or there. You know, I'd rather get mauled
by a bear than whatever a random man has in
store for me. So why do you think that women
feel so unsafe in society right now?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's society now. I mean, I
think it's the curse of the fall. Then we can
do a whole talk on just the curse of the fall.
But the curse of the fall is that a woman's
desire will be for her husband, and he will lord
it over her. The curse is twofold for women. Number One,
women are basically hopelessly attracted and drawn towards men. And
I think women hate this about themselves. I think that
that I.
Speaker 1: Wish I was, you know, not attracted to men, because
it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: This is a frequent thing, right, that they hate an
aspect of themselves because it's a vulnerability, and vulnerability in
our society is seen as a weakness, right, But male
attention and affection is like oxygen for women. It just is.
It's it's how they're hardwired. They need and want that
attention and affection. Now, if they don't get attention and
affection from God. I did this recent video on this.
If they don't get the attention in affection from God,
they have an unnatural amount of desire from men that
men will never be able to satisfy. And so they'll
continually be looking for that high from different men that
will never satisfy what they're looking for from God. That's
number one. So they hate that aspect of themselves as
craving and yearning for something that makes them vulnerable and weak.
And then number two, because we live in a fallen world,
it says men will lord it over them. So men
will utilize the weakness of women or their desire for
them against them. And all of the dating culture today
is predicated on men manipulating women into, you know, sexual
relationships that are beneficial for themselves and not beneficial for
the women. Most dating today is renting with an option
to buy right. That's what we call it. When you're
having marital relations before you're married, the man is renting you.
He does not own you, he does not take any
responsibility for you, he doesn't even really love you. It's
just lost. So if you look at society today and
you see it how men have created a society where
they are continually taking advantage of women. Women are not
valued in our society for their expressions of womanhood, which
are beautiful. It gives you, I think, a pretty I
think that the test gives you a pretty clear example
of what people think today in our society. I mean that,
I think it's a I think it's a kind of
litmus test about what's going on. I think you gave
that test fifty years ago, or in the sixties or
even the fifties. I mean, women would say men at
any day, why because men had virtue. So today this
is the irony is that men today hear this this
being said by women, and they go, oh, women are
so dumb. They don't realize that the bear will kill them.
What they don't realize is that sixty years ago or
seventy years ago, women would have chosen men, and that
the sad part today is that it's actually more of
a reflection on how bad men have become and how
little virtue is actually valued in our society. Men do
not value virtue in our society, right, I mean, this
is why the consumption of internet content, illicit Internet content
is absolutely through the roof because men have no sense
of value or valor or virtue. They have no understanding
of what is beautiful versus what is disgusting. They have
no concept of the value of a woman or who
she's supposed to be. Right, women have been subjugated to
this kind of role of inferiority in our society, and
I would say even kind of almost a general animosity
and hostility for men today. Men don't know how to
win over women today. That's one of the biggest things.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I said collapse of riz And it's
interesting to watch their reaction of men when they get
their feelings hurt that the women would rather be with
a bear, where they're like, well, I hope you get mold.
Then it's like, well, that's why they're saying that, because
the vitriol for them.
Speaker 2: What men are not saying is what men are not
saying in our society is like brothers, like we have
failed collectively and showing good leadership and good morals and
good virtue in our society. You notice that, like a
big turning point in our society was women were like, hey,
we want to be equal to men, but we want
to be equal in a way that subjugates us basically
in the sex industry, right, and men said, okay, sure,
like the society, men in the society did not raise
up and say, there is no way that we want
this to happen to the women of our society. This
isn't right, this isn't honoring to God, this isn't beautiful,
this is not what we want whatever else. So men
created this dynamic where women in our society are devalued.
They said, we're fine with that. And then in the
midst of devaluing women, they're like, why don't women value us?
It's like, you don't value women, Like it's very clear dynamic,
Like you're the man. You're supposed to lay down your
life for her, as Christ lays down his life for
the church. You're supposed to do all these things. You
don't want to do all those things. Men have fundamentally
ran away from the responsibility of martyrdom. And then in
the process, women are like, well, I can't trust men
because they don't love me more than they love themselves.
And then men are like, well, we're not the problem.
It's like, clearly, if we are the head of the culture,
yes we are the problem, and we don't seem to
be creating a culture where it's even normal for men
to hold each other accountable. Look at all them them
manosphere man influencer guys, Like what is what is the
product that they're selling? Like the product that they're selling
is like, look at the biggest guys Dan bil'sarian I
would say, Wes Watson is fairly big. The fit and
fresh guys, I don't know what their names are, Andrew
Tate and his brother, and the other guy who wears
the tiny suits and whatever else, all those guys. Right,
you look at all those guys and cumulatively they're What
they're selling is basically the exploitation of women. Become an
uber male and then sexually exploit as many women as
you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll teach you how to save yourself from
gold diggers.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it doesn't agree. That's exactly what we're looking for.
So men can't get women. And they're like, we'll show
you how to get women. Not to get wives, but
to manipulate them into relationships where we take advantage of them.
It's so ironic. Andrew Tate, he built his whole empire.
He even says that he built his empire because I
watched some of these quotes taking women who were quote
unquote in love with him and then basically pimping them
out to other men through chat rooms in order to
create revenue. Like, that's a pimp. That's not a man
like that, that's not a man.
Speaker 1: Not only that, he has a whole secret society that
you can, you know, by tapes to hypnotize yourself. And
he's got a sorcerer working for him in a couple
of witches.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go I mightn't even know about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he gets the women to tattoo themselves with
his name on him, So he wom just like you
would in a cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that cult that what was the name
of that cult, mexiom Maxium. That's right, So that.
Speaker 1: Sorcery going on around Andrew take for sure. But I
just I think it's funny that going back to the
bear discourse, it's like, why are a lot of men
acting like men aren't scary? Okay? Why do you lock
your doors at night? Why do you not walk down
dark alleys single moms? Bears?
Speaker 2: Like why lock your car?
Speaker 1: Why are you afraid of weirdos worming around? And so
they don't think. They're just thinking, oh, she's a feminist,
so she picked bear. No, they are literally so much
weaker than you and everybody. Every woman possesses something that
a lot of men would like to have and would
like to take by force if they could. So it's
just interesting that you're not realizing you're all scared of men. Also,
you just admit it.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. That's a keen insight. Yeah, I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: I mean, are you protecting women from bears or other men?
Speaker 2: So you no? I mean, it's why guys own guns. Yeah, right,
that's why guys own I mean, I guarantee a lot
of the guys in these conversations are guys that own
guns and believe in the Second Amendment and all this.
And it's like, right, we're not we're not protecting ourselves
from from women invaders of our home, you know what
I mean, Like in the middle of the night, women
are wearing ski masks, kicking in our front.
Speaker 1: Door, dancing college girls that you're scared of. Or is
it you know, whapped out men on drugs and demon
like people that can overtank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. That's solid, solid insight.
Speaker 1: I love men in practice and in theory, So I'm
not I'm not saying I want to be alone with
a bear, but I'm saying y'all can be very intimidating
for sure.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: Did you hear about that guy, Grizzly Man who lived
with the bears like six months of the year and
then he would leave and come back. And he did
this for many, many years, and one day he brought
his longtime girlfriend out there to live with the bears
with them. Yeah, and they both got eaten up.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why was that.
Speaker 1: Just because you don't live with bears? Man? I mean,
he thought that he could be a bear and that
it would be okay. And but the thing that I
took away from that story when I read the article
was like seven years girlfriend or five something like that.
And I'm like, five years girlfriend, like that, I wouldn't
get eaten by a bear for a guy who didn't
want to marry me. I mean that sounds like wife
duties to me, not five years girlfriend.
Speaker 2: That's funny that they had a documentary on that too, right,
there was a movie. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm like
ninety nine percent sure I saw that movie when it
came out. I can't remember the yeah.
Speaker 1: But name's Timothy Treadwell or something, Grizzly Man or something,
but yeah, I was just probably like the most atrocious thing.
I was like, he didn't even propose and she got
eaten by a bear for him. That's another big issue.
I know we're out of time now, but it's like
guy will string a woman along for he'll have an
entire life in a family with her ten years and
three kids, and they're still not married, and he gives
her a shut up ring or something, you know, at
the ten year mark, but he still won't commit to her.
And it's like, you got to stop dating and having
families with someone who doesn't even love you or want
to have you at their wife.
Speaker 2: Number one thing I would say to women, if a
woman asks me, the number one thing I would say
is join an Orthodox church, the one it's the one
environment where men hold other men accountable, and that there
is actually a standard there, and that men have a
spiritual father and the spiritual father has actual guidance over
their you know, sound guidance, not controlling, not a cult, right,
but that you know, like the guys who are you know,
my spiritual sons. They have a very clear understanding that
in order to be in good standing with the church,
I need to live a pure life, and they're committed
to that, and that our goal is to marry women
and to have families. And I think women forget that
they can't hold men accountable. It's just the wrong dynamic.
That energy doesn't work, and so women are trying to
like in a sense, they're trying to like, I don't know,
bridal kind of like unbridled men, and it doesn't work right.
So if a woman was saying, where's the number one
place that you would look for a husband, I'd be like,
go to an Orthodox church, because all of your concerns
about men are that you can't trust him, And it's
the number one place where men are actually dealing with
those things that are untrustworthy about themselves and they're being
held accountable by another man. And so the dynamics there
within the society of the church create healthy marriages because
the wife knows that the husband has accountability with the
spiritual father who is guiding and directing them, and a
whole holding the man to a higher standard that he
would not necessarily normally hold himself to. So that is
the one way in which I think in all of
these things that the actual practicality of living in the
church is what plays itself out to create healthy dynamics
and healthy marriages because all of what you need is
there to create a healthy marriage, which it takes more
than just the two of you, right, You need somebody
who's a confessor, You need somebody you go to confession with.
You need somebody who's basically a coach for your marriage
and helps the two of you out, which is the
role of the spiritual father. Like, you actually need those
things to create a healthy marriage and a healthy dynamic.
Speaker 1: And that just makes so much sense practically to have
a confessor and a spiritual father because he's going to
catch things and nip them in the bud before they
become a catastrophe. Like, you know, you're not going to
have an Orthodox man with a whole nother family somewhere else, right,
You're not going to have years and years of betrayal.
You're not going to have like giant things that they're
hiding from you because they wouldn't be able to commune
and confess that they did all.
Speaker 2: Right, And you're not going to be dating for a
year or two, right, I mean all the guys when
they talk to me and they're like, well, father, what
do you think I go? You date for like six
months and if this is serious, then you start making
the necessary steps towards marriage. We don't date that ad infinitum,
you know, Like that's not what we do. We all
of dating is courtship towards marriage. And not only that,
you know, we have standards Like for my guys, you know,
I'm very clear, like you know, don't be kissing before marriage.
Never seen anything good come of it, you know, So
I actually, you know, it's it's for a guy to
hear that from an older man that they respect, who says, listen,
like I understand everything you're going through, but just don't
do these things because they're going to lead you in
the wrong way. It's so much easier for a man
who's in his twenties to listen to me. And because
we have a relationship, they know I love them, they
know I want the best for them, and I care
about them. I'm a fatherly figure to them. They see
my own life, they see my own marriage, they see
my children. All of those dynamics is like they can
get on board with it because they know where they
want to go and they understand that I want to
help lead them there, and so they're able to follow
that direction and instruction and in the process they end
up you know, you create these guys that are they're
a phenomenal catch for women. You know, I have a
few guys in my church. I'm like, these guys are
great catches for women, you know what I mean. I'm like,
they're handsome, they're in shape, they take care of themselves,
they take care of their spiritual life. They're responsible, they
come to the services and pray, they go to confession regularly,
you know, all of these different dynamics. I'm like, this
is a this is the type of guy that you
can have a whole family with and have a really wonderful,
beautiful life with. You're not going to find that in
guys outside of the church. It's just not going to happen.
All this nonsense about high value, like in all the
ways in which our society defind side values. Whether I
don't care who it is, from Pearl to whoever else,
it's all nonsense. It's it's like ninety percent of his
financial It's like that is not it. That is not
what makes someone high value exactly. Yeah, character and love
and all the other things attentiveness.
Speaker 1: And they'll make a meme of a low value woman
and put all of the descriptors on and it's so
there's so many things that anybody could fall into that category.
You know, she had a job or a tattoo, or
an ex boyfriend or like whatever. It's just kind of well,
this is.
Speaker 2: The funniest thing to me too, because somebody said today, like,
men don't like women with tattoos. Like, dude, my wife
has tattoos. Yeah, I don't care, Like what does that mean?
Like my wife is super, My wife's amazing. If any
dude spend any time around my wife, they would be like,
this guy is truly blessed to be married to her.
You know, when you get all these weird generalizations like
that women are only they have to be this weird
only certain way. I don't know, it's just it's so strange,
like it's you know, like it's it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's weird, sea getting weird. And a lot of the
accounts like that's why I had you on, like the
biblical masculinity accounts, and some even have Orthodox crossed in
their bio. They make it look so crazy that it's
not attractive to women. So you said you have a
lot of men in your parish.
Speaker 2: I do too.
Speaker 1: I would love to see them find girlfriends and make babies,
you know, after they get married. But the Ortho sphere
online is sliding into a very weird place. And so
back to the beginning, it's I think it's being infiltrated
by weirdos or you know, subversive accounts, maybe not even
Christian people, like a lot of these accounts are just
spots or paid for or Indian women like in India.
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of people though that are
that are ideologically Orthodox, and it's not really about Christ.
It's not about the risen Lord, it's not about the incarnation.
It's not about living a new life in Christ. Right,
And you see that where it's like, oh, it's about
it's about monarchy, or it's about nationalism, you know what
I mean. And it's all these kind of ideological things
that have nothing to do with Christ. You could literally
take Christ out of their orthodoxy and they would remain
the same because they're not actually worshiping the God Man
Jesus Christ. They don't really have love for Christ. They
have love for this mutilated religion that they've created that
they think is Orthodoxy. That's not Orthodoxy at all. Orthodoxy
is the worship and the love of the Holy Trinity.
And that's why these people don't talk about the Trinity.
They don't talk about Christ, they don't talk about the Incarnation.
They constantly talk about race, interracial marriages, nationalism, inferiority of women,
whatever else. It's just it has nothing to do with
what we're living in the Orthodox Church in a life
of repentance. It's completely divorced from that. They're just looking
for something that is is some kind of based religion,
which is not what Orthodoxy it is at all.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, perfect, you said everything I wanted you
to say, and I really respect your opinion and I'm
grateful that you came on and anything else you want
to add that.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you can I post some stuff on
Instagram on Father Moses McPherson on Instagram, and you can
google me on YouTube. I think it's Father Moses McPherson
on YouTube and it has talks and other things that
I do. So yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And if you are in the Austin, Texas area, look
a Holy Mother of God and go visit Father Moses.
So thanks for coming and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2: A bless