Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasicco's I am Dana Valley coming at
you with my certified fantabulous co host, the one, the only,
mister Grant Hughes. We're on to another trade deadline primer
over here at Hardwood Knox.
Speaker 2: We're quickly reaching. We might be there already.
Speaker 1: This could be the second podcast of the day from
us that you're listening or Washington. We were reaching that territory, folks,
because we can't sit on these anymore. Hashtag Giannis attend
to Kompo, just blowing up our Bucks trade deadline primer
before we dive into the Lakers.
Speaker 2: Grant, how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just reeling. I didn't I did not
think we'd be recording on the day that Austin Reeves
got traded to Cleveland. Just a pretty big How was that?
Was that better?
Speaker 1: Was that a better ext You burned it too quickly.
We should have had an actual discussion. But I can't
believe they only got Lonzo Ball and Dean Wade for him.
Speaker 3: Look, we got a few more of these. We'll get there.
We'll get a perfect We'll get a perfect Sponts at
some point. Do them well excited to talk about the Lakers,
if only because I mean, they're just like there's been
so much discussion about them lately. I do feel I
feel obliged. I feel like we are obligated to pour
some water on like a lot of the nonsense surrounding
the Lakers and what they can and cannot do or
will or won't do at this deadline.
Speaker 1: Right And I'm sure we'll talk about it throughout, but
we do want to talk more about the Baxter Holmes
report that was just by the way. I love that stuff,
and I hope that we can get back to a
point where there's more of it that we could read.
I know that's not the content people seem to be
itching for, but very illuminating. Let's get started, though, with
the trade deadline vitals. You're able to take us through
the Lakers' trade deadline vitals.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they are about just a little over seven million,
seven point one over the tax They are though projected
to have like fifty five million or a little more
in cap space this summer. That assumes Austin Reeves cap hold.
That also assumes Lebron James is not there. You may
have heard he is on an expiring contract for the
first time in queste time. Yeah, no, I know, maybe
we should have led with that. Lebron James might not
be back, were you aware. They can probably get to
about thirty million in twenty twenty seven cap space, even
if they max out Reeves. That's another interesting not really
germane to the trade deadline, but what they pay Austin
Reeves is going to be fascinating. That number. Actually, that
thirty million plus figure goes up if they can dump
Jared Vanderbilt, which we will discuss the likelihood of. They
cannot trade an outright first round until they're twenty thirty
one pick, so they only have and they also only
have a twenty thirty two second to trade right now
with respect to that first round stuff. That will also
change this offseason, and that's a relevant detail when we're
discussing what their options and aims might be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I want to start here because you
mentioned the Reeves number, and he's been injured too, so
this is all just murky territory. Do you view him
as untouchable, especially with the Lebron stuff sort of floating around?
Speaker 3: Uh, untouchable pretty close, I think, just because if you
assume Lebron is gone and you want a second playmaker
with Luca, which I think you still do the blueprint,
the Kyrie of it all as a sort of guide
for how you want to build around Luca, or I
don't know, throwing Jalen Brunson the old previous Jalen Brunson
one point zero as like an example of what kinds
of players you want around Luca. I think he's pretty
close to untouchable. Like, what is the scenario where you're
moving him? Do you have? That's an unfair question, but.
Speaker 1: So I think that obviously it's oh if we get
bowled over by an offer, But I look at it
through the lens of do you think that you can
build a defense that is sustainably good enough when Luca
and Austin Reeves are just your two backcourt players, And
I know that Austin Reeves is not he has more size.
Speaker 2: You mentioned Jalen Brunton has more size than him.
Speaker 1: But if you're the Lakers, it gives you very little
margin for error at other positions, to where DeAndre and
can't be your long term starting center. Ruey hot Chimore
is great, but like what type of playoff minutes can
he play? If he's going to be one of your
primary wings, you could just say, oh, you just need
to upgrade the Lebron spot and get someone younger and better.
Speaker 2: Who's there. That's like we're looking at.
Speaker 1: I think if you're committing to the Reeves and Luca,
which to be fair, Reeves, if he doesn't get injured,
is probably making the All Star team.
Speaker 2: That's how good he was.
Speaker 1: He showed he could carry lineups, not just without Luca,
without both Luca and Lebron. Right with all of that said,
you're looking at minimum. To me, well you need an
elite wing and then an elite defensive center, and they
have neither of those things right now. And so I think, yeah,
if they make the calculus of well, someone gonna give
us two or three first round picks for Reeves in
advance of free agency, and does that like, are we
better off going Matt direction?
Speaker 2: And we do have cap space where the Lakers I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I'm not shopping Reeves especially, I don't know between free
agency and then his injury, I do that probably hurts
his value a little bit and teams know they have
to pay him. So how what's the team that's giving
you more than two first round picks for Reeves, knowing
they have to max him out. But it's just I
do think it's an important exercise to go through a
well how are you building out? Because under Rob Polinka
they have done a terrible job of getting players who
play both ends of the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's done into Anthony Davis and that's like basically it.
Speaker 3: I think that's fair. I would say I'm pretty comfortable
with him and Luke, Like I this would be a
different conversation if Reeves hadn't looked quite as spectacular as
he did offensively, just because like I don't I feel
like you'll understand when I say this, Like he's not
Kyrie Irving, but like the level he was playing at
was like pretty close to like a Kyrie level of
efficiency and effectiveness and really statistically probably above it, but
small samples he you know, plays he's played twenty three
games as we're recording this. If he's you know, the
last year Austin Reeves, who's still like twenty five and
five on good efficiency, I'm more concerned about that not
being good enough to offset the defensive challenges, or I'm
more concerned about that just requiring you to hit a
lot of home runs on your role play your two
way role guys. I think, I just I know, maybe
this isn't fair, and you can maybe remind me to
stop doing this. But like I don't know, Dallas figured
it out. You go get PJ. Washington and Daniel Gafford
and you have a healthy Derek Lively and your defensive infrastructures,
like that's enough to make a finals, Like you know
what I mean, Like that, it's not easy. You would
love to have more two way guys and not have
just like two offense only players be your main pillars.
But I think it also helps that Luca is essentially
going to guard forwards all the time. So it's not
like it's a little different than like the Lillard McCollum
Blazer's back court where or even like Mitchell's been better.
But like the Mitchell Garland it's not the same as
having too smallish you have to guard guards, you know,
lead playmakers. Just because Luca is effectively like he can
sort of only guard power forwards, you know. Uh So
that also makes it that makes me feel better about
Reeves being he doesn't have to be untouchable but like, no, no, no,
he's gonna be here and we're gonna pay him like
a star.
Speaker 1: Well, let me put my Rich Paul hat on for
a second. Would you prefer to have to build around
Luca and Jaron Jackson Junior or Luca and Austin Reeves.
Speaker 3: That's a different question. If you can give me Jaron
Jackson Junior, I will join Rich Paul and you wearing
the hat and saying like that just makes more sense
having a I was gonna say, having a player like
Jared Jackson Jr. Of which there are like I'll wait,
like how many you know?
Speaker 1: He's so he's such an imperfect player, but he's also
just such a hard archetype to replicate.
Speaker 3: Right, if Jared Jackson Junior is actually on the table,
you could you could talk me into moving Austin Reeves
for him? Do you do you? What do you think?
You take the Rich Paul hat off and be dan
for a second. Are you interested in that sort of
reorienting of the team.
Speaker 2: Well, but what happens at that point is and are
you bringing this is to me?
Speaker 3: One?
Speaker 1: It's happening over the offseason when they have more Pickscause
you're unless you think like this one first round pick
it No, okay, I'm just I was.
Speaker 2: Just asking, okay, like.
Speaker 1: Now you need your secondary score because I think Jared
Jackson Junior kind of had that year and a half
where it was, oh, all right, this guy's expanded its
back and now it's I'm of the mind, you know,
maybe alongside Luca it's different having him as the number
two option, But with Reeves you can look at it
and say, oh, we have like two number ones basically,
And so is it easier to find what you believe
is going to be? Is it easier to insulate or
probably build around Luca defensively or to find the second option.
Speaker 3: I think that it's easier to find. Like I don't
think if you have Luca, your second guy needs to
be as good as this year's version of Reeves was
for the offense to like be very dangerous.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think it's easier to to to find a lesser
version of Reeves or just you keep what we're trading
Reeves in this hypothetical. But like the version of Reeves
that we saw the last two years prior to this
one is probably good enough as your second creator next
to Luca, it's way harder to say, like because what's
what of all the discussions about the Lakers, like failing
has been about this. It's just like the defense isn't
good enough that like there's not enough interior punch from
the center, there's not enough like you need you might
need a Jaron Jackson type defender slash two way guy
up front two that just feels harder to find and
it feels more important to a team led by Luca
I think, I think do.
Speaker 1: You think that their offer if they just put so
they have cap space. So in theory, you could say,
if Memphis wants any of their players, they could have them,
Let's say, but three first round picks for Jaraon Jackson
Junior or Memphis just doesn't have to take back any money.
Is that even an appetizing offer.
Speaker 3: For Memphis?
Speaker 2: I mean, so it'd be.
Speaker 1: Twenty six, thirty one, and thirty three, and you could,
let's say they include swaps.
Speaker 3: Yeah with man so you could just which is like
kind of funny money, right, like you could you could
you Memphis could leave this thing like we got six
first round assets for Jaron Jackson Jr. I mean if
you're the Grizzlies. I think the only thing gives me
pause is I would wonder how much I how much
value there is in shorting the future of Luka Doncic.
There might be some uh what they call Nico and
asked you might I was like, going, right, uh, yeah,
I don't know. I'm interested in that. It's just that's
an off season thing though.
Speaker 1: Obviously now that's at a point where you're basically building
around three max guys with Reeves, Jackson and Luka. But
that's as far as just like you can intuitive three
like three like that's super intriguing to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're then you're then you're like, we just
need well, then you need a couple, you need two,
three and d like wing sized players, which is not easy.
But you know, maybe you get those guys on the
cheap because everybody wants to come be a part of
what you would assume as a contender with with those
other three guys.
Speaker 2: Well, so what does this team need.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've sent it like we could just
get through quickly, but it feels two way wings and
I think they need Jackson.
Speaker 2: Hayes has been pretty good this year.
Speaker 1: DeAndre Ayton has been DeAndre Ayton is how I would
probably categorize it. So I would say they need an upgrade.
He was who he thought he was, right, I'd say
they need a center upgrade. Like those are the two things, right?
They don't need another offensive creator because Reeves will be
and Lebron is still he's still I mean he's forty
one and he's still pretty good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think that's right. Uh what would you
if I don't? Maybe I don't. It's hard to keep
talking about them without stepping on the whole, like they're
probably not going to do anything quite let's whisper they're
not going to do anything meaningful at the headline because
they just have way more assets over the summer. But
if you had to pick, do you would you focus
on the center position or would you would your energy
be more directed towards like we need someone that is
the size of ruy Haachimura that also can play defense,
Like is it wings, slashboards or is it just the big.
Speaker 2: Are you speaking this season or generally.
Speaker 3: At the moment as you're analyzing this team today, like
if you're making a deadline move to stop the slide
that they've kind of been on for several weeks. Is
it center or is it is it a wing slash?
Speaker 2: It's center. It's center for me for two reasons.
Speaker 1: I think as imperfect as the results will still be
regardless of who you put there, they can just cover
up for more things by being around the basket than
if you have a wing defender. And the other thing
to me is, I think you can get a center
who's not just in your rotation. But if you're like
I would start Robert Williams the third on the Lakers
tomorrow if they had him, and so you can get
someone like that without having to give up your first
round pick in theory, yep.
Speaker 3: And Williams is a different example because because he's expiring.
I agree that it's center, by the way, but also
like in any hypothetical like that was a bad hypo
because it's not just like the Lakers aren't just concerned
with this year obviously, like they've been a lot of
what they've done to this point suggests like we're kind
of like this year is whatever, we're thinking about the
Luca only version of this team. So there, in terms
of the centers you might go get like your Claxton's
your Jared Allen's, your Gaffords, whatever, like, those are all
guys that would you would keep and they would be
in the middle next year and beyond. Right like that,
It's harder to do that as I'm looking at options
if you're focused on wings, I think.
Speaker 1: And that brings up another interesting question though, was how
aggressive should they be broader strokes, whether they are getting
a wing, whether they are getting a center, Because as
we mentioned, you could trade one first round pick now.
Speaker 2: Or you will have three available to you over.
Speaker 1: The summer, and so it seems like a no brainer,
but it does get I know they're not building anything
around Lebron anymore, but you have Lebron and Luca's Luca
now too. It's not just all well, Luca's under the
age of thirty, so we don't need to do anything
this season. So I think the conversation to me is
more of a conversation because it's not like they have
all these seconds or intriguing players to throw around.
Speaker 2: I think that they're most intriguing assets.
Speaker 1: If you're moving away from giving up a first round
pick is well, you have a lot of expiring contracts
and so if you're willing to punt on cap space
for this summer, which their plan initially or maybe that
was the Clippers, was twenty twenty seven. So if you're
punting on caps, you could take back someone who's maybe
making money next year, And is that how you're getting value?
But from your perspective, how aggressive should they be this season?
Speaker 3: I don't think very agressive. So to kind of outline
what you're talking about, between Hachimura and Gabe Vincent and Maxicliba,
there's just under forty one million in expiring salary. So
that's enough to get you in the conversation, not for
the absolute apex names, which mostly aren't available anyway, but
with that one first rounder, if you can give someone
forty million in expiring salary, like that's compelling, but you're
probably I don't think he'd be a fit there. I
still think that the cap space argument just it goes preserving,
It goes farther with the Lakers than it does anywhere
else other than like maybe Shami. I guess like it
just you have that has to be a factor in
your thinking. It's not like, well, Utah's positioned to have
this much. It's like, Okay, what are they what's gonna
happen with that the Lakers with Luca and with like
a new ownership group. That it's different because it's not baseball,
but it's like what it's hard to find an ownership
group that's been more aggressive and like and successful in
drawing in major talent than the Dodgers ownership group which
now runs this team too. So like, I don't know,
just everything points to cap space being I don't know,
even more disproportionately valuable for the Lakers than it has
been in the past. So that would just be the
thing that informed my decision making more than almost any
other factors, Like I do think as dead as we
talk about free agency being and as like pie in
the sky as we talk about cap space sometimes seeming
for them, it's it's just different. I don't know. You
can correct me if you think, if you disagree, but
it's just like I'm sorry, I already won.
Speaker 1: It was different the moment they acquired Luka Dancic. If
we needed any further evidence, it was things Lebron going
to the Lakers, Anthony Davis insisting on he would only
go to Regard.
Speaker 2: They gave up a lot to get him, but only
go to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Things just pop up for the Lakers that aren't Miami
and New York whatever, They just don't pop up for
other teams and all. So I think for the Lakers
this is more true than any other team. Cap space
can be used for more than free agency could be
used in trades, and the Lakers are a team that
you never see the lopsided deal of Oh, the star
was just sent into cap space for picks. It's I
hate taking a stance like that might just happen for
the Lakers because the right star decides they want to
go for the Lakers, and if they don't have these
blue chip prospects, teams are gonna say three first round picks,
two to three swaps, and we don't have to take
back basically any money.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, so, I mean it's just to speak about
it any other way, it's just like to ignore reality.
I think it's just like, sorry, twenty nine other teams,
we don't feel great having to do this either, but
like the Lakers are exceptional in this regard. It's just
sort of undeniable. So yeah, that that informs my thinking
on their deadline.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let's bounce around a couple names, and
I just want to know if you would give up
your first like, are are these players worth giving up
your first round pick?
Speaker 3: Oh? I have some for you too. I imagine they'll rule.
Speaker 2: Let's go back and forth, Herb Jones.
Speaker 3: That's pretty close. I would definitely think about that for
one first and some expiring money probably, Yeah, literally all
they have to offers, right, Yeah, well, I mean just
that's assumed. Okay, how about what are your thoughts on
Peyton Watson? Ooh, not on my board? I am cribbing
from Dave mcmanhamon rode Up wrote up something the other
day that's got some names on it. Peyton Watson was
the one that jumped out to me because he was
also not on my board.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, do.
Speaker 1: You, cla, do they run enough off ball actions for
him to be valuable on offense for them when he's
not going to have the ball, Because a lot of
what has happened in Denver's we've seen with him on
the ball. I well as like a I'm intrigued by
Peyton the developed Peyton Watson as like a tertiary creator,
like attacking defenses that have sold out in other areas.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, and then but if you have read Luca,
how available is that?
Speaker 1: Because in Denver right now it's all right, no Jokic,
So that's a big factor that's not there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just the athleticism and like the defence he just
we talked about, like if you're not getting a center,
like your needs are on the defensive perimeter and just
with just juice, the athleticism like that. I don't know
if I would him and Herb Jones is an interesting
would you wouldn't you? If it's the first in money?
Like the Nuggets side of it is like, well, are
they going to be able to, you know, beat a
restrictive free agents offer for him? I mean probably, and
he can if they want to, but you know that
that might make it easier for you to get him.
Speaker 2: Tarry Ethan, I.
Speaker 3: Was gonna take a drink of my cup and you
stopped me. Stopped me cold. Uh hm. I don't I
guess if if I like the others better, I don't
know why.
Speaker 1: You and Moore are on a completely different way moret
would basically trade Wemby for Tari at this point.
Speaker 3: I mean, I yeah, okay, I guess I'll accept not
being a where are you on it? Would you do that?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if he's ever gonna log enough minutes,
and I think that, yeah, he created a ton of
defensive chaos for them, But giving up the first for
someone you also have to pay, So even with Peyton
Watson kind of takes away the you know, like Herb
Jones is, Okay, we know what this guy costs for
the next four years or whatever it is. Yeah, you
don't know what Peyton Watson or East Harry East's gonna
cost you.
Speaker 3: Uh, Andrew Wiggins will cost you thirty million dollars when
he picks up his player option for next year. Does he?
Speaker 1: Honestly, he's fringe to where I don't think you're getting
him without giving up the first round pick. But that
pick is so far out. If I'm the Lakers it,
I don't think I could. But he is probably almost
exactly what this team needs.
Speaker 3: And look, Luca knows if he runs into Andrew Wigans
in a playoff series, he's gonna get locked down. So
you just avoid that possibility altogether by getting Wiggins on
Luca's team because we know what we know what Wiggins
can do to Luca in a playoff series. This is all.
That's all irrelevant because the Warriors are going to trade
for him back to to warm my heart. Oh, it's
your turn, go ahead, I give you Wiggins.
Speaker 1: Who else do I have on this? Wiggins was the
next name on my list. I don't know if I
have any other. Would they give up a first round
pick for that? I did have circled. I just can't
imagine this team doing it.
Speaker 3: Pay McHale Bridges. That's not who I thought you were
gonna say. He fits what we're talking about, sort of. Uh,
I don't think I. I mean, you have to give
up a first and expirings for Bridges? Don't you like?
That's that's do you?
Speaker 2: What do you? I mean?
Speaker 3: He's worth five He's worth five, Dan, we know it.
The market spoke. Uh, that's interesting. I think i'd probably
do that. Uh. DeAndre Hunter, that's probably a hard No.
You could probably just sign him. Uh And that's also
re winds up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not for like, I'll give up the second
for him for sure? What about lou dort.
Speaker 3: Oh Man, Yeah, I think I would do that because
he can guard the guys Luca can't and he can
guard the guys Reeves can't. That That checks a lot
of boxes. Jonathan KAMINGA can I interest you? You're not
probably giving.
Speaker 2: Up the first for that, but oh the Warriors giving
a first.
Speaker 3: He scored thirty points in like twenty nine minutes Dan
before he got hurt again.
Speaker 1: So did you see the meme I posted in our discord.
Go to our discord to see it. But it was
when he re entered the rotation before getting injured. It
was the Joker Batman thing where it feels like you
and I are destined to do this. For it because
now the Warriors all of a sudden might not trade him, right.
Speaker 3: I just end it and make it, make it stup?
Speaker 1: What about this is the owner's already come out and
said he's not available, But Dylan Brooks him and Lebron
on the same team would be a sterical.
Speaker 3: Fun I mean, would Lebron just officially announced he's not
coming back If that happened, he just retires Onlas Straw. Yeah,
I'm not. I have never been a Brooks guy, but
it's hard to argue with the results where everywhere he
goes the team gets better. And so yeah, that's I
feel less good. Weirdly, I almost want the Watson or
who else herb Jones type more than I want Brooks,
just because, like I just his offense like just drives
me nuts, the aggression and like the fade away like
he's been great, but like just I'd rather have the
more like supplementary the guy who he's recognizes he's a
supplementary scorer.
Speaker 1: He's shooting like double the percentage on turnaround fadeaways that
he is on wide open three pointers, which is just.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I look, it's working for him, but that
doesn't feel like the best fit offensively.
Speaker 1: I have two more names from the same team in
the first round pick category, okay, and I I wasn't
sure if I was going to include them, but we're
just caveating this with just asking questions. Jayalen Sugs are
Anthony Black?
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, I mean Black has to does he? I
was gonna say Black has to be like the has
to cost you more because he's cheaper and he's healthy,
and but like Suggs is just like, can't you imagine
sug If you get Sugs for one first, you gotta
don't really.
Speaker 1: But magic looking at Duc that you have to involve
another team, But it's the Magic are saying we have
to pay Anthony Black more than Suggs.
Speaker 2: We don't want to be in salary cap hell, so
we'll get.
Speaker 1: Expirings this year, rope in a third team to help
them get out of the tax this year. And yeah,
that's how though, Yeah, yeah, I mean from the Lakers perspective,
I think either one of them would be worth your first, uh,
but that you're also who's more likely to go for
that of expirings, and the first is its Sugs. But
the Sugs deal seems like so much money, but it's
declining and so it bottoms out is like thirteen percent
of the salary cap in his final year, but he's
never he's played in more than fifty five games once.
Speaker 3: That's the thing, right, And like is how often does
that trajectory reverse itself? That you know, like it's just
you're you're you're going on hope like more than like
actual information or president. If you think Suggs is going to.
Speaker 2: Be sounds like from the Lakers for you, I.
Speaker 3: Think I still might do it because good good, yeah
Black is are do you think the Magic are there
where they're they're already Like I really like Anthony Black.
I'm I'm just like ecstatic that this year is happening
for him. But do you think the Magic are at
a point where they're like, we probably got to move
off of Suggs because we know Black is going to
cost so much, Like, has is that established yet? Are
we sure yet?
Speaker 1: I don't know, because even if they have to, they're
they're gonna know, Like even let's say they extend him
this summer, they have another year before he's mega expensive.
Speaker 2: So I don't think.
Speaker 1: But if and I know you don't want to short
a team that has Luca of Lakers putting like their
twenty thirty one or twenty thirty two pick on the table,
you have to at least think about it. Yeah, for Sugs,
for or I mean maybe even for Black, Like I
don't know, like Black is shooting better than Sugs from
three this year, so maybe it is just Sugs.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And Sugs really does just have the one year where
he shot it too, so it's in addition to the
health stuff. It's like, I don't know Black is really
I'm again just just happy to see Anthony Black becoming
Anthony Black, That's that's been fun.
Speaker 1: Do you have any other first round pick guys or
I have a couple of No, we exhausted my list,
so I have. I don't know how many like non
first round pick guys you have, but I'll just throw
a bunch to you for rapid fire. So you're looking
at expiring money and then the hope. So it's either
if they're expiring money, you're hoping the Lakers twenty thirty
two pick is enough, or are they taking back some
type of other contract as part of it that has
money into next season. Kean Ellis, Robert Williams, the third
Those all seem like no brainers.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how involved the owner is with this
team now, We've seen some smatterings of reports. But if
they are just looking to cut costs because the season
has gone off the rails, Dean Wade hhmm would be
excellent for this team.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, do you think the idea of Dean Wade
is excellent? I think I wonder if we're if to
cite a current Laker, are we Maxi Kleiba and Dean
Wade where we're like, remember when he was this?
Speaker 1: And I'm not are we sure, but he's still he's
still that like Maxie Kleeba was so far away from
what we thought he was, Like do you still that when.
Speaker 3: We refer to like remember when for Maxi Kleba, is
that like twenty twenty one? Is it like that long ago?
Speaker 2: It was like close to the pandemic maybe around.
Speaker 3: Them kind of a what a player he was for
a hot minute there. Yeah, I like all those guys,
I uh does Najie Marshall is probably going to cost
you first as I'm just.
Speaker 1: Definitely going to cost you more than a second, unless
are you taking back Klay Thompson as part of that deal?
Speaker 2: Maybe that's how you get Naji Marshall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, Yeah, that might get you down to a
second because and again the money you can you can
make that work. Does what does Dallas wanted? Naji Marshall
is one of his like weirdly in like demand, not weirdly,
he's in demand and maybe gettable I don't know, but
probably not for this team. Yeah, that was the other
only other name I'd forgotten to mention.
Speaker 1: I have a wachaiak Baji not gonna give me much offense,
but just someone come in defensively.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe make some threes hmmm. I mean it's
not that long ago he went for a first so uh,
if you get him for a second, well.
Speaker 2: He's about to be an RFA.
Speaker 1: So I don't even know if and look at the
Raptors are going to get out of attack. So if
you could rope in a third team, I don't even
know if you need to give up the second round
pick to do that. I don't This is iffy. Terrence
Shannon junr.
Speaker 3: Hmm. Not as important as maybe he was expected to be.
I could. I could see so it from minnes Otis perspective,
you're just happy with the pick and you're ready to
say that this isn't going to happen here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, oh right, we'll take a twenty thirty
two second and that's like that's how.
Speaker 2: It's going to be done. Yeah, that's why I was easy.
Speaker 3: Has he fallen that far? Maybe? I don't know he I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I think it's injuries, but figured it out to ask.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jordan Finney Smith would be funny the
Rockets looking at Yeah, what about Vince Williams Junior?
Speaker 3: Hmmm, yeah, I could see that. Now you got me
thinking other Grizzlies. Is there anybody else? I mean, you
want to take a shot on Gig Jackson and see
if there's any any defensive like production in a frame
that suggests there is defensive potential.
Speaker 1: Any think that JJ Reddick murders him?
Speaker 3: We just have a separate list of guys that would
just like drive turn JJ Reddick's hair immediately white.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 3: Lakers, that would make him go insane?
Speaker 2: Would you take on?
Speaker 1: I wonder if they would give you picks for this,
but because then there is the extra year of it.
Speaker 2: But Terrence man.
Speaker 3: Uh, I mean he does kind of have the jack
of all trades reputation like positionally, but he's got He's
not expiring, is he He's got, He's got.
Speaker 2: I think he's got another couple of years after this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that I that's one where this is the thing.
It's like who the Lakers target for the second round
tier that we're talking about that also doesn't have money
going out Because we spent time talking about how they're
capt thinking such a priority.
Speaker 1: I think a year is fine, Like I don't know what, like,
I don't know how important cap space is this summer
to them? Yeah obviously, but yeah, man doesn't come off
the books until after twenty seven twenty eight, right, maybe
you're getting picks to take him on.
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, and then you can theoretically. I don't know.
I'm not in love with that one.
Speaker 1: This would have been a good first round pick to
your name. I think you mentioned him too, But would
you give up.
Speaker 2: Your first round pick for Nick Claxton?
Speaker 3: I mean, he's better than Aydan.
Speaker 2: Spicy.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just like, let's start there, point of order.
He's better than DeAndre and any opposed, And that is
kind of like I think I a man, because when
you say would you give up your first for him,
you're also saying are you willing to give up the
ability to use three firsts correct in the summer? So
I think maybe in light of that, I would change
some of my answers to would you give up a
first for this guy? Because it's really like there's more involved.
So Claxon definitely fits fills a need, but the opportunity
cost is really high for him for all these guys.
You know. That's so it's fun to throw names out,
But I do think at least I have been I
haven't factored in enough, Like it's not just a first
that you're sacrificing here.
Speaker 1: I don't think we've named someone that realistically you should
give up the first round pick like four to give
up because it is trade through it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, that.
Speaker 2: Is That's the key.
Speaker 3: That's what I referred to earlier of like we're gonna
circle this point and eventually I have to say it.
But it's like that that's it. It's not you're not
just trading a first. You're kind of just setting three.
It's not perfect, and now you're setting three on fire.
You're just you're just saying, we don't think we can
get somebody with these three for that'd be the only
scenario where it makes real sense to trade this first
is if you're just like, for some somehow you conclude
that in July or on Draft night twenty six, there's
not gonna be someone worth giving up three first one
and you just like sort of can't.
Speaker 2: Know that.
Speaker 1: Day Ron Sharp for a non first round guy. But
you need more than the one second is the problem.
And I don't think Dalton Connect is gonna have too
much juice, So like Dalton Connect in the second. Yeah,
like for but Dayron Sharp would be okay, he has
money on the books for next year, but it's a
team option and it's less than seven million bucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he can get.
Speaker 2: Another second somehow, I don't could you do? Is this
stupid to do?
Speaker 1: If it's do you trade Rui who I think you
could get at least multiple seconds for maybe an end
of first rounder and then you're using that or would
you prefer them to just keep those picks to load
up on the deal?
Speaker 3: But so I was gonna ask you that too, like
what could you? But then aren't you if you're trading
Rui for seconds, aren't you taking back money that probably
goes out beyond this season? Aren't you taking back non
expiring money?
Speaker 1: Well, I think the goal would be don't or make
it like a three team deal where you know or
the nets take Is it Ruy to Toronto Toronto sending
I don't like? And then you're getting day Ron Sharp
from so something.
Speaker 3: In this hypothetical you okay, So you're getting a much
cheaper player who might have money going out and seconds
for ru Hachimura.
Speaker 1: Right, Like what if you could get Ocha it's like
a multi team set up. You get day Ron shop
oh chiof Baji second round picks. By sending out Ruby Hachimura,
you're kind of rebound because Ruby's going to be a
free agent himself and super valuable score around this team.
But that's not going to be in general, the offense
is not going to be the Lakers primary. You could
also trade Jake Laavia would be another guy that I
think would get you seconds as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I just I think you're right.
I think it's it seems tricky to not eat into
too much of your cap space, get a player that's
gonna help you now and in the future, and get
seconds using the tools that they have. It's it's possible,
but like, yeah, I don't know, Like so Ruy Ruy's
got some value, but like Vincent and Klieba are just
strictly like nobody is giving assets for those guys, right
unless it's just to get off money and give you
back worse money, right like that, I don't I don't
know what those guys are getting you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that. I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Do you have any other names or you want to
get into some takeaways from that Baxter Holmes piece.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's talk about that. We haven't really discussed
it too much.
Speaker 2: You wrote about it, So yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 3: Wrote about just you know, for everybody's probably read it
by now, but it's just it's a really deeply reported
with lots of good sources just talking about I don't know,
it's ultimately a story of like family betrayal and like
dissolution related to the sale of the Lakers. But in it,
the thing that I ended up writing about was just
like the Lebron of it all. And you know, the
paragraphs referencing him make up three percent of the piece probably,
but as all things must this, things circle back to him,
and it just to me it was just illustrated.
Speaker 2: You sound like Lebron. Now did you see the quote
he had on it?
Speaker 1: Is like there's always gonna be stuff he said, especially
about me.
Speaker 3: So he's right, he's right. Guess he's right, He's right. No,
I think in some ways so it just again people
have read it, but like the relevant stuff is just
how Genie Buss was. I don't know what word you'd use.
There were different different adjectives attached to each of these,
but like felt a certain type of way about Lebron
kind of not taking responsibility for the Westbrook disaster for
you know, there were moments where she wanted to trade
him to the Clippers or didn't want to give him
an extension. There's two or three other instances of her
just just didn't like the amount of clout that Clutch
and Lebron had over the team, and ad I think
was kind of roped into that. I don't know. To me,
it was just kind of like it all rang true,
it all seemed kind of fair, it all seemed kind
of unsurprising. But the takeaway to me was just like,
if ever there was any doubt about Lebron's like current
feelings towards and stature with the Lakers, like this kind
of takes care of that right. To me, this is
just you know, he's going to be a free agent.
He couldn't get a contract extension. Like those were pretty
clear signs that, like, hey, Lebron, we the Lakers are
not built around you anymore. You're not the central figure anymore.
If there's any doubt about that, Like now this coming
out is just like from his perspective, at least, he's like, well,
guess what, I'm not messing with you anymore. Either. That
felt like what the result of this was going to be.
I don't know what. We haven't really gotten into it.
What are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 2: I would agree.
Speaker 1: I think they probably reached that point though, when the
Lakers didn't give him an extension and you saw the
Rich Paul release about them evaluating their options over the summer,
and so that felt like almost the point of no return.
And also, look, I know there's a lot of baggage
that comes with having Lebron, and now as he gets older,
like what he's doing on the court is not necessarily
going to be worth all of it. But this is
supposed to be a franchise that's known for the excellent
treatment of its stars, and this is a pretty shitty
way to have Lebron sort of us out. But I
guess we shouldn't expect anything less when Genie oversaw the
way that she pushed everybody else of her family out,
and it's look, she's had to go through a lot,
and she has oversaw on like some success with the Lakers,
But I don't know, she kind of seems like she
sucks at her job and we need to talk more
about it, or he sucks with like like what did
you You're mad? Because Lebron was absolutely the savior of
like he you didn't do anything other than Carvalu, cap
space and be in Los Angeles and be the Lakers.
Speaker 3: For sure. There's there's a read on this that I
think is fair. That is the Westbrook thing's a little
different because like, yeah, if that was Lebron, like no,
everyone knew that was dumb.
Speaker 2: You know whose fault that is?
Speaker 1: Then, though it's Polinka's, it's Genie, because part and parcel
of your job is to keep the stars that you
have in check. And if you're giving them free reign
to run the franchise. If you thought Clutch had too
much influence over what's happening, look in the fucking mirror,
that's your fault.
Speaker 3: I mean the thing a couple of things too, Like
within Baxter's piece, like there's stuff about just like how
often the Lakers made the playoffs when Jerry Busse was alive,
and like how often they had losing seasons and the
before and after of it is stark right, So like
with Genie in charge, like this team's success is based
on Lebron's choice to come to the Lakers, like and
so if you feel like you're not getting enough credit
as an owner for whatever, for this this most recent
title they had, or for whatever success they've enjoyed since
you've been in charge. Like, you're kind of wrong because
the reason you had success is because Lebron came to you.
You like, you don't get credit for like going out
and getting him, Like no, no, he chose to come
there for a lot of different reasons, some of which
were not basketball related, Like if he doesn't do that,
you don't get Anthony Davis, you don't win that title.
Like so to feel like you're not getting enough credit
is just like that, that's what the franchise valuation is for.
I'm sorry what to owner the whole fact that the
owner is the one getting the trophy at the end,
I thought that I thought Qui Bennett it right with
the Thunder where it was like he got out of
there really quickly after they won the title. I'm not
giving Clay Bennett credit for why the thund No, all
you did, Like the franchise valuation is your that is
your recognition, Like this is just like they don't even
Sam Prest he feels like he was an exception. Got
a ton of credit for building the Thunder, but like executives.
Speaker 1: That's just how this shit works. The people who are
on the court putting.
Speaker 2: In all that work.
Speaker 1: The staff, that's like in the analytics, the coaching departments,
like they're gonna get more credit than the c sweet
because they did a bulk of the work.
Speaker 2: Like that's right. I'm I just find that logic so
fucking stupid.
Speaker 3: No, that's true. That's true across the board, but in
this Lakers case in particular, because Lebron just was like
I'm coming there and in there in the in the report,
it's like he decided that in twenty seventeen, like before.
Speaker 2: The year that in twenty like fourteen when he probably.
Speaker 3: Had mapped out like he before he went to the Heat.
He's like four years there, back to Cleveland then Lakers.
That's how. But like I'm agreeing with you in in
like where are the crew it belongs, But in the
Lakers situation in particular, less credit should go to ownership
because it's just like you, he just picked you. You
didn't go you didn't swing some mega deal and like
even extended to the Luca thing like that fell in
your lap too, that you were lucky picked you, right,
like really like there's not. I mean, it's much much
easier to point to dumb contracts the Lakers have signed
bad trades, they've executed that then it you know, there's
way more examples of that than like, man, what a
success that signing.
Speaker 1: Austin Reeves and Austin Reeves and Alex Caruso or the
two crowning examples. Only one of them is still in
LA because the Lakers led Alex.
Speaker 3: Remember back to like the Lance Stevenson Rejon Rondo off
season where it's like even in the second that stuff
started happening, here is like what are we doing? There's
way more moments of that sentiment than there are of
like golf collaps for the Lakers, like tactical accut and that.
Speaker 1: So that's not Genie alone. By the way, this isn't
to say like right, and yeah, that's I think that's
the problem. Is like, yeah, you're gonna get like a
lion's share of the blame when you're hiring the wrong people.
But I will say, if I guess if she had
a problem with how she was portrayed in the story
and about firing her siblings and then Janey begging to resign,
was like that was the part that was I can't
feel a ton of empathy for these people that are
just fighting over this billion dollar asset, Like it's just
it's honestly, it's it's only a little relatable because Hardwood
Knox is a trillion dollar asset, so we're just but
it's like from a family perspective, like, yeah, that kind
of sucks.
Speaker 2: And if you actually.
Speaker 1: Said that to your whether your brothers were good at
their jobs or not, that you really shouldn't have been born,
which that was the other my biggest tit like I
just found that so odd as so why was there
an agreement after you gave a child up for adoption
that you would never have a kid oh with someone else?
Like what is the you're a parent? I'm not what
would incite you to feel that?
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 3: I didn't know. There were several elements of that whole
thing where I was like, I don't think I'm understanding
what I'm reading right now because this doesn't make any
sense to me. So that's kind of so where where
I'm at on that one. It's like, I don't that
needed to be framed differently for it to make sense.
I don't know. Yeah. I just think the takeaway is that,
and this is a real black mark on your legacy,
is that you don't feel sympathy for billionaires. And I
just can't. I think they've earned it all Dan the.
Speaker 1: Small business loan they like there, just do you remember
that they're like, oh wow, we didn't know, Like we
didn't That is just like I I don't know, I
think that she's honestly, If anything, I think Genie Buss
and a lot of just the Lakers in general probably
skated by on stuff that's happened and that they really
had no control over it. And if they don't even
win that title with Lebron and a D we're probably
having like an entire different discussion.
Speaker 2: Oh about of.
Speaker 3: Course, And like that was the outlier. They've had some
rough I mean before that, it was brutal, you know,
going through they had several like what between Lonzo and
Ingram and who else? Am I forgetting Randall? Like they've
had several shots at like.
Speaker 2: They're like, but they're not hits type deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Yeah, No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't have a whole lot else to add. It's
just it sucks that that like one that the family
fell apart like this, and two that it got aired
out like this. But like, I don't know, I don't
feel a whole lot of sympathy for anybody.
Speaker 1: From just from the family perspective, like the closing of
that piece to where it's like they still haven't been
in the same room since potentially since Jerry Buss died,
Like that just kind of sucks enough as someone who
is close with like my sisters, like that just kind
of sucks.
Speaker 3: Like, you, guys don't own a ten billion dollar franchise.
Speaker 1: Let's see, how how do you know they don't have
an ownership stake in this podcast?
Speaker 3: That's true? Sorry, I don't sure.
Speaker 2: Was there anything else that said? Do you absolutely?
Speaker 1: The other thing that was just it felt like the
like the payouts to Kurt Rambus and Linda Rambis and
just like the bonuses that were I do not believe
for a minute that that Mark Walters that's his name, right, I.
Speaker 2: Always forget his name came in and that was the offer.
Speaker 1: That thing was negotiated and then it was brought to
everybody else, right, Like that was very you're also the
lawyer here that that's what it reaked of to me.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, what's the argument. Yeah, I'm not persuaded.
I don't know what the argument is.
Speaker 1: Article was presented as an maybe they didn't even say that,
but like you're supposed to. You negotiated without anyone else,
like members of the trust negotiating with this guy.
Speaker 3: Was that like well, and wasn't it twenty four and
eight because of Kobe's numbers? Wasn't that in the piece too?
Like That's that's how they did.
Speaker 1: So they came in with an offer that was just like, yeah,
we're gonna get like the rambuses need this thirty two
million dollars in total for sure.
Speaker 3: Good for the rambuses. They keep coming up.
Speaker 2: Yo out Linda tripled up Kurt the job.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, how's Kurt feel about this? Let's get
let's get the seven thousand word feature on his feelings.
Speaker 1: It is a bummer till I hear that. But I
think the one thing that I if this was the logic.
She absolutely was right that the Lakers can't compete with
the way that other NBA teams are being run. And
there's about there were how many years away do you
think we are from a more direct infusion of Saudi
Arabian representatives buying into NBA teams as they continue to
sports wash.
Speaker 2: It's already happening.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say the moment that NBA Europe gets
off the ground, like that's that's where all that money
is gonna come from. I assume that's like one of
the drivers. I don't know, how cynical do you want
to get, it's just how different.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that that's actually to me.
Speaker 1: The one of the most salient points was that she
felt that they weren't going to be able to keep
up financially with the way that other teams are running
their franchises.
Speaker 2: Which I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: If you're if you're the Lakers, you can't you can't
keep up. If you're the Lakers and you feel like
you can't keep up, that's on you, man. You have
every other advantage you could possibly want in a competitive sense.
Speaker 2: They were only making five million dollars in dividends per year.
Speaker 3: Figure it out, they got families, They do better be
better at this, Like it's just like the Lakers are
so like such a lucrative marketable, Like it's the Lakers
are the Yankees complaining? Like what I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't care who owns.
Speaker 1: To be fair, they probably are well now they are,
yeah to the dog, well because this is great, Well,
this ownership group is gonna gonna make everybody else complain.
Speaker 3: I I right, but like I, I just can't you
have every advantage as the Lakers, Like there's if you
if you can't be profitable, is that the argument or
it's like it's harder to be profitable just because you're
you're you're a family run operation and you don't have
all these like depocketed investors.
Speaker 1: I guess it would come back to being profitable, but
I'm more so looked at it as like investing in
the so but I guess the benefit to them is
they're always gonna have a Lebron happens or a Luga
Dantich happens. But I meant more so investing in the
rest of the organization. When it comes to if you're
a team that's spent big on the top of your roster,
how are you gonna find these like are you investing
as much in analytics in the scouting department? Isn't those
areas where it's always been reported and just known around
like the league circles the Lakers kind of lack. So
if you if you weren't, I'm not saying they couldn't.
This is this is you know, we give billionaires too
much like leeway to begin with, where she's like.
Speaker 2: Ah, like the Thunder, you're gonna have to bust up their.
Speaker 4: Team in a year or two because no, they could
just pay the penalties, like they don't have to do that.
But if if the reality was we're not going to
opt like we're not gonna operate in this level of black,
We're gonna operate. It has to be at a higher
level of black, then she is correct that, no, you
can't compete with like these tech moguls like so that
I would agree with you are right, I'm probably under
selling the brand, the convenience of the brand of being
the Lakers.
Speaker 3: It just seems like you have access to so many
other ways to make money that other teams don't, just
like your market size alone, right, like your your international
like brand recognition, like all this other stuff that the
Lakers have on every other team in the league, like
the Knicks, I guess are the only other one you'd
say is like kind of can operate exceptionally in certain
ways because they're just it's the Knicks. You know, there's
only a few teams in each sport where it's like, well,
it's it's the Knicks, it's the Lakers, it's the Dodgers,
it's the Yankees. Like there's just they're one of those teams.
I can't if you can't figure out how to compete
with other teams that like, I don't know, you just
ask a random person on the street, like, can you
can you name how many NBA teams can you name?
Like they're gonna say the Lakers before they say anybody else,
So it's I don't know. There seems to be. It
seems to suggest there are avenues towards being profitable that
other teams don't have.
Speaker 2: The Pelicans erasure in that exercise.
Speaker 3: Is just they're they're pretty Yeah, great example.
Speaker 2: Uh, do you have anything else or are you ready
to take this out of here?
Speaker 3: No? I think that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching Rate Review, subscribe comments on YouTube. Let us
you know if you disagree with us about the Lakers.
Kind of like we could talk about everything transactionally, but
then it comes down to like trading three firsts is
better than trading one, like if we have over just
bigled it in that conclusion, let us know, let us
know what they should do with their resources, or if
there's a there's a middle path they can execute that
we didn't think of. Join our discord link for that
YouTube and podcast description shouts Franklin Lackina. Apologies, Jared Nowt