1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:00,760 Speaker 1: Time. 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,799 Speaker 2: You know bet builders hanging by a thread here? Relax, relax, 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,400 they still need one more goal. Well if it loses, 4 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,080 nov bets got your cover. Nov bet is the home 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,320 of the betfielder this World Cup. From goal scorers to cards, 6 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,239 get the best value on every match, plus get money 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,199 back as a free bash. 8 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 3: If your betfielder. 9 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,039 Speaker 4: Loses on the biggest game every single day, join today 10 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,320 and get seventy. 11 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: Euros in free bets. 12 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:25,559 Speaker 5: No be Bett or. 13 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 4: Power to You Teaeson Seas apply eighteen plus bet Responsibly 14 00:00:28,839 --> 00:00:29,760 Gambling Care dot I e. 15 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,039 Speaker 2: You bet builders hanging by a thread here? Relax, relax, 16 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,640 they still need one more goal. Well if it loses, 17 00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:40,079 nov bets got your cover. No be bet is the 18 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,039 home of the betfielder this World Cup. From goal scorers 19 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:45,920 to cards, get the best value on every match, plus 20 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,479 get money back as a free bash. 21 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,039 Speaker 1: If your betfielder loses on. 22 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:52,679 Speaker 4: The biggest game every single day, join today and get 23 00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:56,119 seventy euros in free bets. No be Bett or Power 24 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,479 to You Season Seas apply eighteen plus bet responsibly Gambling 25 00:00:59,479 --> 00:00:59,799 care Do. 26 00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 5: I James Golden Show on the Red Apple Podcast Network. 27 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,599 Speaker 3: With me to discuss this man is my dear dear friend, 28 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,840 Ed Shay, welcome Ed. How are you? 29 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: James? My god, I'm doing your last broadcast of the year, 30 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:25,920 and I did your first video podcast, so I'm like 31 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,879 the bookends in your life there. I'm doing great. And 32 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:32,920 three years ago today we lost one of the greatest 33 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,640 R and B record producers arrangers in the world. You know, 34 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,439 I remember getting the call. I was in Costa Mason 35 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,439 and I was working Johnny Mathis and I got that 36 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,680 email from a friend of mine saying that comcast away 37 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,599 and James. I know I tried to hook you up 38 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,680 with him. He's in the enigma to this day, I 39 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,879 don't know what he died of. Well, it's been in 40 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:03,159 his obituary or his Wikipedia page. There for a lengthy illness, 41 00:02:03,519 --> 00:02:06,599 But I'm going to repeat myself what I have said 42 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,919 to you over the years. One of the kindest, most gracious, 43 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,680 loving men you would ever want to meet. And he 44 00:02:13,719 --> 00:02:16,879 could write tunes, he told me, and again I mentioned 45 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,800 Hughes to call me mister o Shay. He says, I 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,280 could write tunes like you were writing a postcard. He 47 00:02:22,439 --> 00:02:27,039 just had this gift of writing these beautiful lyrics. And 48 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,960 I just heard that the great springwriting that he did 49 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,639 the great orchestrations using the obo, English horns, French horns, 50 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,120 and in the percussion my world, you know, the vibes 51 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:41,360 and the maimba. It was just exquisite and it is 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,240 to this day. I still get goose bump, and I 53 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,400 don't know if we'll ever reach that level of R 54 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:50,400 and B that we knew, you know, getting back to 55 00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:51,479 the delphonics. 56 00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:57,159 Speaker 3: He changed everything he did. It wasn't just the arrangements. 57 00:02:57,479 --> 00:02:59,919 And by the way, this went beyond R and B 58 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:04,960 because all of these so many of his records crossed 59 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,759 as we used to say, crossed over. I hated that 60 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,400 term then. I don't like it too much now, but 61 00:03:10,439 --> 00:03:18,680 they became hits internationally worldwide, across the board. Great music, 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,960 but he changed the production of it, the sound, and 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,280 people that are not in the industry, that don't have 64 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:32,319 it don't understand how that was the sound. He paid 65 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:37,520 attention to detail to everything he touched. The arrangements were 66 00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:46,759 beautiful and sophisticated. Yeah, everything he touched had had a beauty. 67 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: To it, absolutely, James, and you know, at one time 68 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,879 we were going to do his lot of these hits 69 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:58,199 with the Philadophy orchestra going to We were going to 70 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,240 do the best of pon Bell like a pop series 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,520 with the orchestra. And when the orchestra committee would not 72 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,360 let Tom bring in his guys, meeting me and Charles 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,639 Collins and Bobby Eli and Larry Washington, he said, no, 74 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:19,600 not doing it. He refused to do something as absolutely 75 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,120 tremendous as the Philly Orchestra because he wanted to bring 76 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:28,519 in his team. And again I told you in another interview, 77 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,199 I remember Tom flying me out to La to work 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,040 with James Ingram to play the tune at the end 79 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:37,759 of City Slippers. And when I got to La again 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,319 there was Charles Collins, you know, the guys. He was 81 00:04:42,399 --> 00:04:46,519 a very loyal guy. And yes he was in the detail, 82 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,519 but I'll tell you why he was in the details. 83 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,920 With orchestrations. He would inquire, he says, ed, does this 84 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,519 work one? Marinda? Is this okay? Does this work one? Timphany? 85 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,800 And he would say the same thing with the Charles Collins, 86 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,560 you know, is this art working? So he was he 87 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:07,160 was a student, you know, a lifetime student like we 88 00:05:07,319 --> 00:05:11,720 all are in the arts. It never ends. It's a constant, 89 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,040 you know, I'll fill battles, sort of always trying to perfect. 90 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,040 But he was just a beautiful orchestrator. And again I 91 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,920 told you, over the years he was known as the 92 00:05:22,079 --> 00:05:26,720 black Burt Backack and Bert took great attention listening to 93 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,199 Tom and Tom with Bert, you know, with the time changes, 94 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,079 they were very intricate, but as a listener you would 95 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:37,759 never know it. You would never know it. It's like 96 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,000 I say, I think it's a lost art. I'm really 97 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,240 not into what's happening today. I did hear some Bruno 98 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,279 marsh stuff that I really love, but Tom end of 99 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,720 an era, James end of an era, with that style 100 00:05:52,759 --> 00:05:55,000 of writing, you know where you're using a harp, a 101 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:00,720 full string section, French horns, Obo, English orn, bassoon, and still, 102 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,839 as one person used to say, it was R and 103 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,480 D wearing a bow tie with Tom, very sophisticated and 104 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,160 just easy on the ear. Let's put it this way, 105 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:13,199 easy on the ear. 106 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: I had the pleasure of meeting him once, and I 107 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,600 have other friends like you who met who you worked 108 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,800 with him. I have other friends who've met him and 109 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,800 know him, and the stories are just amazing to come 110 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,839 from everybody that was connected with he and Also, I 111 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,160 just want to mention his co writer on for his 112 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:39,160 stage here, Linda Creed, who was just awesome, phenomenal human being. 113 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely wonderful and with all the stylistics and everything that 114 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,040 we associate with Tom Bell. I mean, we did other 115 00:06:47,079 --> 00:06:50,279 great albums. We worked with the Temptations, We worked with 116 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:54,839 Philip Hyming, We worked with Gotto Barbieri, which was an 117 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:58,680 absolute disaster because we did three days of recordings with 118 00:06:58,759 --> 00:07:02,560 Gatto and everything that Tom wanted up tempo got to 119 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,680 won it as a ballot. The ballots got to so 120 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,120 it was sort of a mismatch. I'm sure those eight 121 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:12,199 or nine cuts are still in a can somewhere in Philadelphia. 122 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,839 But you know, we worked and again, you know, we 123 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:20,240 worked with the Silvers and Loretta Linn. We did a 124 00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:23,439 great ballot that's still in that fish to Save Pittsburgh 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,160 album with Loretta Linn, and I think it was either 126 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,279 Teddy Pendergast. You know, the list goes on and on 127 00:07:30,879 --> 00:07:34,199 what Tom has achieved over the years and again always 128 00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:38,879 under the radar, never boasting or bragging. When I was 129 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:41,879 at his home in Billingham, you wouldn't even know that 130 00:07:41,959 --> 00:07:44,399 this man was in the music business. You know, there 131 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:47,399 wasn't an award, there wasn't even a piano in his 132 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,800 living room. He was he wasn't a enigma. He was 133 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:54,839 a mystery, he really was. But a great human being 134 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,519 and musically I can't say enough about the man. And 135 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,560 I mentioned to you before or you know, Tom would say, 136 00:08:01,639 --> 00:08:04,279 all the rhythm section, guys, we would get double scale, 137 00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:07,319 so we would work. We did like four days of 138 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:10,800 blu roles. We would do like ten to one, two 139 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,079 to five, and then seven to ten or six to nine, 140 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:18,279 and we got double scale for that. And if I couldn't, 141 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:20,079 if I would have to leave early to go to 142 00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:23,920 Atlantic City to work a showroom, he was okay with it. 143 00:08:23,959 --> 00:08:27,519 I would come in the next morning and overdub what 144 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:30,480 I missed later in that day. So he was a 145 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,120 very time. You know a lot of leaders want to 146 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,279 do that, James. It's like, you know your book for 147 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,879 the for this nine hours or whatever, you can't leave. 148 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:43,720 And I couldn't. I couldn't stay for the day because 149 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,919 some of the leaders that I worked for in Atlantic 150 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,159 City in the showroom wouldn't let me take off for 151 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,720 an evening show. So Tom was gracious enough to say, 152 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,279 do your thing, We'll overdub you in the morning the 153 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,440 next day, and you know, so we would spend you know, 154 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:01,080 three hours. Maybe we would do two or three tunes 155 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,559 within the three hours overdubbing percussion, Bobby lyon rhythm guitar, 156 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,000 you know, Larry Washington, maybe on kungas and then bongos. 157 00:09:10,039 --> 00:09:13,200 So it was a process, but it was a lot 158 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,519 of fun and no anxiety, nothing at all. 159 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 3: Just love it. 160 00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well. 161 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: The great Tom Bell ladies and gentlemen passed away from 162 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:27,440 us on this day in twenty twenty, twenty twenty two. 163 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,759 As you know, one thing I would like to one 164 00:09:30,799 --> 00:09:32,919 thing I would like to just I'm just gonna throw 165 00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:35,320 this out here. You know, maybe this idea because I 166 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,559 never knew about the Philly story too. You just said 167 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,159 it about the orchestra. You know, it wouldn't be a 168 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,759 bad idea to have an orchestra somewhere. I didn't have 169 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,039 to be Philly, but actually do the tribute album for 170 00:09:49,159 --> 00:09:49,679 Tom Bell. 171 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:53,519 Speaker 1: Oh, it would be phenomenal. It would just talk. 172 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 3: About how to make that happen. It's stalk about how 173 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:56,360 to make that happen. 174 00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: You would have to get a producer, you know, and 175 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,519 go to now, James. A couple of weeks ago, you 176 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,879 played Billy Paul, Me and Missus Jones. Yes, and I 177 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:08,639 listened to that fact solo. That sax solo is a 178 00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:11,440 guy by the name of Jack Faith and Jack did 179 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,159 a lot of the Tom Bell sessions. And Jack did 180 00:10:14,159 --> 00:10:17,039 some arrangements for Johnny Mathis, and he did two of 181 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,759 the Johnny Mathis albums that was fed in Philadelphia. But 182 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,919 to remember you talking about Billy Paul a couple of 183 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:27,279 weeks ago, and there were so many unsung heroes in 184 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:30,320 that Philadelphia scene. Of course, you know, we all know 185 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:33,440 about the Wrecking Crew, you know, Hal Blaine and all 186 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,759 the guys. But I told you once before, I always 187 00:10:36,759 --> 00:10:40,559 thought that Philadelphia took a backseat to Muscle Shoals and 188 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,919 you know Roe Town of course, and again all great 189 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,679 cities producing great music. But the Philly sound was versus. 190 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,279 Speaker 3: Philly sound was a worldwide sound and it needs to 191 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,759 be acknowledged. Yes, what happened in Philadelphia changed the music 192 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,960 world and it needs to be ignored. 193 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I told you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I 194 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:07,440 told you before Tom really hooked up with Gamble and Huff, 195 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,559 he was working as a record label called Cameo Parkway, 196 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,799 which was you know Bobby ry Dell and d D. 197 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Sharp if you remember the Locomotion and the Mashed Potato, 198 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,720 all those records you know from the day, and you 199 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,159 know Tom wound up conducting on the road for Chubby 200 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,759 Checker and then eventually, you know, he he got that 201 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,879 hit with the del Phonics, which you know you'll hear 202 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,879 in movies and Quentin tired Kino movie. I hear it 203 00:11:36,879 --> 00:11:41,679 with Nicholas Cage singing it. Uh, it's it's universal, and 204 00:11:42,639 --> 00:11:46,120 like you said, it's worldwide. It's it's one language. You 205 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:49,720 could be, you know, in China or Japan, and you're 206 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,279 still going to get goosebumps hearing these beautiful string intros. 207 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:57,120 And Bobby Eli used to say Tom Bell was the 208 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,480 king of the intros. His intros were like mag magnificent 209 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:02,759 that you would think you were listening to a John 210 00:12:02,759 --> 00:12:07,440 Williams film score soundtrack. How he had those strings. And 211 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:10,279 I also told you before James here was a guy 212 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,240 that was not They didn't let him into the Philadelpha 213 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:19,000 Musical Academy. They said he didn't qualify, and I always 214 00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:22,799 remember him saying, mister o'shay, I could buy that building now, 215 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:25,759 but without any malice. He found it funny, but he 216 00:12:25,919 --> 00:12:30,399 was he learned from dealing with the guys. Does this work? 217 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,519 You know reading orchestration books? 218 00:12:33,759 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: And I'm sorry I have to cut you short, but 219 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,440 I have some things. I just got to get to 220 00:12:37,639 --> 00:12:42,440 this commercial break, no love it. Thank you for coming on, 221 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,759 thank you for sharing your memories of the great time. 222 00:12:44,799 --> 00:12:46,840 And we really do need to work on this. 223 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,759 Speaker 1: This probably will do that. And thanks for everything. Happy 224 00:12:49,799 --> 00:12:52,480 holidays you and the family and all your listeners, and 225 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,240 happy holiday. 226 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: See you, my dear ed. Thank you so much. James, Well, 227 00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,279 my friend, by thank you, James Golder is nearly here 228 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:02,559 with you. Coming right back, folks, don't go away. 229 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,799 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to The James Golden Show. You can 230 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,639 hear The James Golden Show Saturday mornings at seven. If 231 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,360 you like the podcast, share it with your friends and 232 00:13:14,519 --> 00:13:19,279 listen anytime at wabcradio dot com and download the WABC 233 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:23,399 Radio app. Hit that subscribe button on all major podcast platforms. 234 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,639 Plus follow WABC on social on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and 235 00:13:29,039 --> 00:13:31,559 X see you next time for a new episode, so 236 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,879 you never have to wonder what the heck 237 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,919 Speaker 2: Is going on here