Speaker 1: Welcome to the Master of the Nez podcast, the ultimate
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You've come to the right place. Join your host, Paul Abernavi,
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Speaker 1: Each episode, Paul will illuminate the complexities of the trade,
de code, the National Electrical Code, and share the latest
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Speaker 2: What Up?
Speaker 1: What up?
Speaker 2: Everybody?
Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of Master the NEC the podcast
where we bring you all things electrical code, business, and
even electrical safety, which is kind of what we're going
to talk about today, electrical safety. So thanks for taking
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Speaker 2: Again, it's been rated number one by many many online
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Speaker 3: Sites, and again we continue to put out information. Just
a reminder that a lot of this stuff is very Germane.
Regardless of the code cycle you're on, it's it's just
good code or good electrical information, So I encourage you
to check them out. There's over a thousand episodes. You
can get it from our mobile app, which is free.
Just go to our website fasttracksystem dot com and you
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anything on your phone, don't worry about that. It's simply
a web based mobile app. That's the way we moved
to a couple of years ago because I just don't
like putting things in your phone. But it will put
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everything over there, even our blogs. Now some people say
that blogging or the blogs are so nineteen well, no,
it's still a little too far, so early two thousands
or twenty and tens, and I disagree. I think blogs
are an amazing way to get lessons to people. We
can call them blogs all we want, but the reality
is it's just a way to be able to have
a short, very direct message, a lesson, if you will,
And that's the best way to do them.
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Speaker 3: And whether you're watching our videos or anything like that,
if you want to get just a good lesson, there's
nothing better than reading the information and be able to
comprehend it. And that's the number one thing that I
do notice with people when they struggle on electrical exams
or struggling to learn the National Electrical Code. Do they
just they have reading comprehension problems, And hey, I've been there.
Speaker 2: I'm just like you.
Speaker 3: You know, electricians started up from the field way back
in the eighties. I've been an electrician, been a master electrician,
owned multiple electoral contracting businesses, some more successful than others.
Build a great company with my brother went on to
build my own, I've worked for municipalities. I've been the
engineer for the City of Richmond, Supervisor of Codes for
the City of Alexandria, Virginia.
Speaker 2: I went on to work with NIMA as.
Speaker 3: Their electrical expert for the South and then ended up
with Encore Wire as their director of Technical Services, and
now with Prismium. It's the world's largest wiring cable manufacturer.
So I've been around the block a little bit, uh
and talk quite a few. I think it's over eighty
thousand students through the years. So you know, I'm telling
you you can get a lot out of the information
that we share.
Speaker 2: Whether you like me or not. It's not about me.
Speaker 3: It's about you and what you can learn, and we
share you solid information on our blogs and things like that.
Speaker 2: So make sure you check it out.
Speaker 3: And you can do that from our website again or
you can get the mobile app, whichever whichever you choose.
Today episode Oh, first, I want to tell you that
we we do have a new video that is out.
It's two hours long. It's on establishing an electrically safe
work condition, which everybody that works in the electrical industry,
especially if you're working for somebody I mean, if you're
working for yourself, it's this paramount because you know, you
want to make sure that you go home every day.
Speaker 2: And when you work for somebody.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's extremely important that they provide you the
tools to make sure that you also are safe.
Speaker 2: But you have to do your own due diligence.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's your responsibility to make sure that you
stay safe on the job, and you understand those type
of things.
Speaker 2: So today we just want to talk a little bit.
Speaker 3: Got a kind of paraphrase in an episode of what
you would get in our two hour video over on
fast tracks Tube. Also, if you haven't subscribed, now, we
don't share as much stuff on YouTube anymore. That's you know,
a lot of promotional stuff, a lot of salesy stuff,
and people give us a lot of crap for that.
But I'll be honest with you, I told you all
this two years ago. We're moving everything to fast tracks Tube.
It's a subscription platform. It helps support us. And if
you just want free stuff, that's fine. You can linger
over on YouTube and that's fine. There's some great info
over there, but we want to step it up a
little bit. So over in fast tracks Tube, all of
our content is really stepped up, so and that's where
we're going to be posting everything that we really do,
anything that's substantial, it's definitely gonna be on Fastrecs Tube.
And if you say I don't want to subscribe, that's fine,
you don't have to. You're not gonna break my heart.
But if you do want some good, you know, it's
basically less than a cup of coffee a day, So
ninety nine bucks a year, that's it, unlimited. You can
watch the videos, the webinars, the seminars that we have posted,
these two hour videos again that type of thing.
Speaker 2: So anyway, all right, so thank you for joining me. Again.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about establishing an electrically safe work condition.
We're going to be trying to do it as brief
as possible because we do know we have a video
out on that. So now, NFPA seventy E is a
document that's put out by NFPA, just like they put
out NFPA seventy and they put out NFPA seventy two,
n FPA seventy B, which incidentally we will have training
on for our thermography professionals as well.
Speaker 2: But everybody needs to understand.
Speaker 3: About electrical safety, especially if you're gonna be working in
the industry. And I've told people this at nausea that
you never ever, ever, ever ever assume something is not live.
You always assume that it's live.
Speaker 2: Always.
Speaker 3: Now you're the one that makes the decision whether or
not you want to move forward, whether it's simple or
changing illuminator in a dwelling, and you don't want to
test for absence of vaulted. You know, you're accountable for
your own actions. Don't blame other people. You're accountable. So
same thing happens here now. Funny thing about companies and
when you're dealing with ocean nineteen ten and all these
type of things.
Speaker 2: The one of the things.
Speaker 3: That people fail to see is that there is a
mutual understanding that has to take place between the employer.
Speaker 2: Which may be you if you're a one man show
or have a couple of people, or the employee. And
so you're just not blindly going into the light. Right.
I try to tell people this all the time.
Speaker 3: Is electrician, you're they're always going to be responsible for
you actions. Yeah, you're gonna have bosses, Yeah, you're gonna
have people above you. That tell you to do this
or that or whatever. But at the end of the day,
nobody is responsible for your actions. But you, Okay, if
you get complacent, or you don't follow procedure, or you
deviate from something for whatever reason, you listen to somebody's
information that is inaccurate just because you assume that you
trust them.
Speaker 2: That's on you.
Speaker 3: And I don't know how brutally honest that can be
with many of you, especially people that have been hurt
in the industry or whatever like that. I mean, at
the end of the day, the responsibility is firmly in
your hands. Now, the employer has an responsibility to make
sure that if you're coming to work for them, that
they provide adequate training. You have safety meetings, you're abreast
of all changes in the environment. You know, and ppe
is provided by the employer. Lockout, tagout procedures, lockout tagout equipment.
Speaker 2: All of these things.
Speaker 3: There's a mutual relationship that takes place. So when safety
breaks down, it's it's rarely both sides.
Speaker 2: It's it's rare.
Speaker 3: It's usually one side breaks down and then you know
it affects the other side or vice versa. Now does
both of them break down. Yes, it obviously if a
company doesn't do what they need to do and then
you don't do your due diligence, then the whole system
breaks down. But if the company doesn't provide what they
need to provide and you keep your high standards of
checking for absence the voltage, making sure you have proper
PP available to you, if you balk at it because
you don't have those things, then you're upholding this this
safety plan that needs to be in place. And so
you as an employee need to always speak up because
you may notice some deficiencies in the safety plan from
the company, and it's your responsibility to speak up and
not just say, well, I don't want to be that
squeaky wheel you got you have to be that squeaky
wheel because there's other people involved that may not notice
the uh, the the uh, the deficiencies in a in
an existing safety program and maybe you just have this
insight and it's your responsibility.
Speaker 2: Too.
Speaker 3: Many electricians aren't verbal enough when it comes to things
like that. And of course everybody, uh, you know that
that that gets hurt always plays, you know, everybody plays
Monday morning quarterback on that. But you you hold that
in your hand. I don't work on anything, you know.
Obviously today I take a lot of shit from people,
you know, because I am I'm actively retired from in
the field. I do help my brother out from time
to time, but I'm actively retired now from in the field.
This is what I do. I'm an expert in code.
Speaker 2: I teach code.
Speaker 3: And you know that old saying those that teach can't
do they're so full of shit because we did it
for so many years. How can we teach people if
we didn't do it. But anyway that makes them feel
good about themselves. So they gonna say something like that,
and that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. Whatever,
whatever helps you feel better. But at the end of
the day, you have to be accountable for your own actions, right,
just flat out, And so I tell people all the time,
you have to stay constantly abreast of any changes that
take place in the industry. You if you if you're
going to be involved in the industry.
Speaker 2: Okay, now shift it.
Speaker 3: Shift the gears to the electrical safety part of this.
So today I'm gonna talk a little bit about establishing
electrically safe work condition. Again, I'm not gonna take it
away from the two hour video that's over on fast
Tracks Tube, which I encourage you to go check out
fast Tracks Tube.
Speaker 2: T R e X Okay, not t R A c K,
it's t R a X. Go check it out.
Speaker 3: You do have to be a subscriber that type of thing.
We probably will be doing a little sample snigglet video
or something like that, snigkelet or whatever you call it.
We'll probably do that just you can get a flavor
for it. I don't think it's available now, but at
the end of the day, check it out. If you're
a subscriber, if you're an enhanced fast Track student, you
should have access to it.
Speaker 2: Make sure you go check it out.
Speaker 3: I think you'll get a lot out of it because
it is all about your safety now. NFPA seventy E
is a document that is updated every couple of years,
just like the NEEC is right every three years, and
it's designed too that if you follow it then you
will be compliant with OSHA. Now, OSHA is a hard
document to change. It's legal aspects to that document. It
is not consensus and it is tough to change it. However,
NFPA seventy E, just like seventy and seventy B can
be changed every three years, so the process of changing
it helps look for weaknesses, deficiencies, and better safety compliance
with any standard like an OSHA in nineteen ten. So
that document is governed by NFPA, which is in charge
of making sure that they go through the process, the
consensus process of changes and updates and modifications in order
to make sure it stays relevant and it helps us
with things that may come up that we weren't aware
of in a safety deficiency manner.
Speaker 2: And it fixes it right.
Speaker 3: So Article one point twenty covers the placement of electrical
equipment in an electrically safe work condition, which means that
the equipment is locked out, tagged out, tested for the
absence of voltage and we're necessary grounded. Now, OSHA and
n FPA seventy follow the same line of reasoning with
electrical lockout tag out procedures. So by virtue of understanding
n FPA seventy E, which is be honest with you,
it's going to be a much easier to understand than
the OSHA. Okay, so that's why most of you work sites,
y'all talk about seventy EU and PPE and approach boundaries
and all that because n f PA seventy is a
little easier to be able to pilot. And of course
there's so many documents now with LINK that that actually
have commentary that if there's any questions you may have
that you can ask, you know, you can see it
there and get a little additional clarity. So that makes
it great for people, especially when it comes to safety,
right having that information at your fingertips, it's great. So away,
while I may be upset at n FPA at their
lack of allowing educators to use LINK, I'm ignoring them
and using the fair use and you know, and I'm
going to continue to use it whether they like it
or not. They want to cut me off, then cut
me off. I'm continuing to use it, i am, And
if they cut me off, I'll just get another account
under some other weird name and some other account.
Speaker 2: I'll keep doing it until I keep doing it.
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm letting them know right now unless you
can come up with a way to block an IP,
and of course I can spoof IP with the VPN,
So I'm just already telling you might as well sue me,
because as an educator. It is my responsibility to make
sure that we convey accurate information. And sometimes when it
comes to electrical safety, whether it's seventy or seventy E
or seventy B, and paraphrasing is just not going to work.
It's just not because you know what. And if you
want to argue otherwise, then you're not really an educator.
Speaker 2: You're a wannabe.
Speaker 3: You don't get it, Okay, So or if you want
to suck the teat of n FPA, that's fine. I mean,
I think they're a great organization, but again they need
to stop being so money centric and realize that all
of us out here produce those documents for them. All
they do is compile those documents. Okay, that's it. They
compile it, print it, distribute it. Shit.
Speaker 2: I can do that. I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: But it is a worthwhile association, and I encourage you
to join. But again, I'm just hoping they get less
about money. I'm just saying, especially when you put yourself
as a safety association. It's different if you're for profit,
I get it, But if you're putting yourself out there
as a safety organization, that's different anyway.
Speaker 2: So that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Are
you know?
Speaker 3: The objectives of the video that is over on YouTube
is to identify ocean regulations and to give you an
overview of a simple and a complex lockout tag out procedure.
Explain what is induced voltage versus backfed voltage because they
are different. It reminds me also take an opportunity to
go to our blog and read my blog on the
differences in induced voltage, backfed voltage and things like that,
because it's a great article. And again that's an example
of where you can learn something.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 3: People say that blogs are going out of style. I disagree.
I read blogs all the freaking time. It's like many
technical manuals, if you will, if a blog is done right,
If it's done right, we explain in the video that's
over on FasTracks too. We explain how to perform the
absence of voltage testing and why it's so important as
an electrician for you to do that.
Speaker 2: Before you touch anything. And I'll also.
Speaker 3: Remind you that these these UH proximity testers, the tickers
we refer to them as tickers, can be a benefit
in a lot of applications. But depending on the system.
Uh you want to You never want to rely on them.
And my brother says this all the time. He'say like, yeah,
I've got one, but I don't rely on it. And
I'm like, without saying, uh, you're right, I'll I'll just
I'll just say oh, I agree.
Speaker 2: But he's absolutely right.
Speaker 3: You never rely on There might be good to give
you an initial uh sense of what's there, but then
you have to go to a meter. Now, whether you're
using a high impedance or a low impedance, you should
have meter that has both. There are ways around that
to use things like a solenoid type meter or a
meter that's you know, like an old analog meter. There
are ways that you can identify induced voltage versus backfed
voltage and all that. But again, we have a great
blog that actually walks you through how to do that.
So if you're thinking, dude, I need I need to
know how to do this, you know, and I want
to be a real electrician, then go read the blog
because I'll break it down for you. We also talk
about in the video three types of instruments that can
be used. Again, we talk about the solenoid type. We
saw proximity and we talk about a digital multimeter and
all that kind of stuff. We do explain in the
video lockout tagout principles that are covered in n FPA
seventy one twenty three kind of go through each of those. Again,
I explained the simple and complex lockout tagout procedure.
Speaker 2: You know, incidentally, the company you work for.
Speaker 3: If you work for a company that has multiple employees,
and you work in an environment where you're be working
on equipment, switch gear, motors, industrial applications and again commercial
as well. But again if you're working with a group
and you're working on larger projects, you need to make
sure that there is a safety professional that's going to
make sure that you have weekly meetings. And anytime there's
a change in something, a new piece of equipment comes in,
a new test equipment, new lockout tagout procedure changes, anything changes,
they need to have a safety meeting and bring everybody
up to speed. It's not cliche, it's what you should do.
It's part of your electrical safety plan and you need
to do it. So whoever's listening out there, if you're
the one that's in charge of the safety plan within
your company, then that's on you. Okay, you make sure
that you provide that for everybody and you keep it updated.
Speaker 2: Definitely.
Speaker 3: Any new people come on, they need to be brought
up the speed. Nonwother thing about that is all the
electricians need to understand this and remember that their brotherhood here.
That when somebody new comes in and you know that
they've never been seen at a safety meeting whatever, that
you stop and say, hey, we have safety protocols here.
You might want to talk to the head guy or
the head safety professional or whoever, or the lead guy
whatever to bring you up to speed. You might say, nah,
I'm not going to talk to anybody. Well, that's a
problem because we need communication, not smart ass communication, but communication.
Speaker 2: Share it with people.
Speaker 3: You're protecting each other in the trade. Electricity kills.
Speaker 2: It does.
Speaker 3: It's an amazing thing, but again it can kill pretty quickly.
So also in that we kind of briefly talk about
the you know, different equipment for lockout tag out, and
whether you can get away with a lock only, whether
or not you can get away with a tag only,
and those type of things.
Speaker 2: We kind of cover that in a video, so that
out and of course we.
Speaker 3: Also talk about when you're doing these tests and you
simply just can't get rid of the voltage, whether it's
induced voltage or whatever, then you need to ground out
the system. So we kind of talk about the preventative
type of a grounding system, temporary protective grounding system. We
kind of touch on it, but again that is something
that it's as simple as clamping each of the lines
to ground. When you're getting a certain level of voltage
and you know that you've got things locked out, you
know that, but you're still getting this low level and
you can't get rid of it, then you can move
on to the temporary protective grounding equipment.
Speaker 2: And it's very important where you do this one.
Speaker 3: It can't hinder your operation too because of the ability
for it to potentially get turned on and have that
fault current. You need to be very aware of where
you put this, so it's just not right in your
face where you're working on the equipment. You have to
look at the equipment, and so we kind of touch
on that. But nothing's going to take the place of
you doing this on site right, working with people on site,
in your professionals, that type of thing.
Speaker 2: So that's that's really important. Now.
Speaker 3: According to Osher regulations, electrical equipment is not de energized
until it has been locked out, tagged out, or tested
for the absence of voltage and if needed, may need
a grounding scheme that takes place in order to get
rid of it. Again, remember fantom voltage, even induced voltage,
or even backfed maybe from other sources. All this type
stuff needs to be rectified before you work on the equipment. Now,
we do have such things as live work permits, and
that is where turning power off could be a greater hazard.
You know, then leaving it on very rare requires work permits.
Don't recommend it. There's very limited applications where you need
to work on anything live, but that is something you
need to talk with your company and make sure there's
a bunch of crossing the tea dot in the eyes
proper ppe fully aware of the situation, and be very
justified and why you need to do it.
Speaker 2: Otherwise there is no need to do it.
Speaker 3: Even Osha nineteen ten dot three three three I believe
says shut it down, shut it down, deenergize it, make
sure you check for the absence of it, check it
before and check it after. It also reminds you to
test your equipment, Okay, what you should do. So we
talk about lockout tagout procedures in the video and we
also walk.
Speaker 2: You through the process. UH.
Speaker 3: And in that process, we're referring to things like nineteen
ten dot one forty seven and nineteen ten dot three
three three UH, as well as n f PA SEVDE
one twenty dot five A four for the requirements of
a simple lockout tagout procedure and then of course we
kind of openly talk about the more complex of one
twenty dot five A five UH when you when you're
dealing with a more complex like it's going to have
a lockout tag out on a session that's going to
go multiple days, or there's multiple crews that are working
in the environment and things like that that immediately takes
it from a simple lockout tag out to a complex
We do cover that and get into detailed in the
video that's over on fastrextube dot com for those that
are interested, and we again we'll talk about sources of
power in understanding that you nearly have to up to
date electrical drawings one line drawings.
Speaker 2: You need to know.
Speaker 3: Where the possible sources are, where there may be transfer equipment,
where there may be some type of switching that they
could put in it vertinently re energize something when you
think you have it locked out. So again it's on you.
You don't take anybody's word for it. It's on you now. Also,
it talks about drawings and if you don't have one
line drawings, then you have to have something that is
considered equally effective. Now, to be equally effective means that
all sources must be clearly identifiable and each employee involved,
everybody that's involved in the system must be able to
access this information and understand how to perform lockout tagouts.
So again, as a talking to an employer, you better
have weekly meetings. You better make sure that you everybody's
clear on the process. And my advice, and I give
this in the video, my advice is to document everything everything.
I'm serious, document it all so you know that that
way you're protected, right, so you know, and when we
do also I talk about it, I don't really show
you very you know, I show you some images of
some meters. But a low voltage proximity tester and a
low input impedance multimeter are used to determine induced or
backfit voltages. Now, if a high input a high input
impedance multimeter does indicate voltage, a low input impedance multimeter
is then used to make in the circuit.
Speaker 2: Okay, because a.
Speaker 3: Low input impedance voltage says or will effectively ground the
circuit based on the meter's design if the voltage is induced,
but it will not create an unsafe arc flask situation
because you're using a motor a meter that is actually
class listed for the application you're using. Now, a low
input impedance multimeter will either indicate voltage, which is a
typical indication of backfed voltage because remember, low impedance is
going to ground it out, So if it's induced voltage,
it'll it'll it'll get it to where you don't detect it. However,
if you're using a low impedance and you are getting vaulted,
then that means it's probably not high probability that it
is not induced voltage, but it is backfed voltage. Okay,
So if that's the case, you've got to be very
very careful of that. So just be aware of that,
and again you can use low impedance multimeters that type.
Speaker 2: Of thing as well.
Speaker 3: Let's see here, now, if a low impedance voltage tester
is measuring a voltage even though it may be.
Speaker 2: Less than one hundred volts.
Speaker 3: And a proximity tester that's little ones like the little
tickers indicate the presence of voltage.
Speaker 2: Then there's a high probability at that point.
Speaker 3: That it's actually backfed voltage and it's not induced voltage.
So anyway, we cover kind of look at that and
show you some examples of a ticker. But again, nothing's
going to take the place of using a multimeter. Preferably
you have a multimeter that has a low impedance input
and a high impedance input hopefully, hopefully that's what.
Speaker 2: You got testing the absence of voltage.
Speaker 3: Again, responsibility of the employee to do this, not the employer.
The employee's responsibility to test this.
Speaker 2: Okay, that type of thing. And so, and we go
through the lockout tag.
Speaker 3: Out procedures and kind of at nausea in that video.
And so we talk a little bit about what's called
the temporary protective grinding equipment as well, and I show
a picture of that. So if you're thinking, what are
you talking about, Basically it's tying all the phases, you know,
checking for the absence of power. Now you're getting low
levels of voltage at this point, you're going to use
protective devices that actually will allow you to clamp onto
those and collect it to the grounding scheme, and that
will effectively reduce the voltage if that's what you're running into.
But it's a process, and each one of those manufacturers
of those temporary protective grounding equipment understand that. And of
course there's no one size fits all because again, you
could have fault current situations if something gets turned on
or something happens, and so you need to make sure
that that system is designed properly and that those conductors
for that temporary protective grinding equipment can actually handle the
fault current. So there's a whole process here. We're not
going to tell you how to size that. That is
outside the scope. That is an engineered professional design system,
and so we're not going to get into that. That's
something that you need to not learn by listening to
a podcast or watching a video online. You have to
put your hands on it. If you do it, look
at the manufacturers recommendations, talk to the design engineer, especially
if they're asking you to work on something and you're
not able to totally de energize it because there is
a presence of voltage. Well, then if there is any
presence of voltage, you must do something to eliminate that,
and that's where the grounding, the temporary protective grounding system
will come into play. Okay, Anyway, that's kind of an
overview of what we're going to cover over on that video.
It's a two hour video. It's the one of a
multi part series over on. We'll probably have another one
that gets more deep into lockout tag out procedures as well.
But this is kind of what it has to do
with creating establishing an electrically safe work condition. So if
you go in there with this mindset up front and
realize that you're responsible for yourself. Yes, there's other things
that the employer has to provide, but there's also things
that you as the qualified person. And we're going to
assume that you are the qualified person, right, so in
that scenario, you have certain responsibilities as well. You share
responsibility in the electrical safety program. Okay, so all right,
hopefully you got something out of that. Folks appreciate you
listening to today's episode. As always, subscribe and share it
with other people. If you find it that you learn something,
give us a thumbs up. We appreciate it. Until next time, folks,
stay safe, God blessed. We'll catch you on the next
edition of Master the NEC.
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning into another electrifying episode of the Master
THENP podcast. We hope you're feeling more powered up and
ready to tackle the electrical world with the knowledge and
confidence you need to succeed. Remember, in the electrical trade,
knowledge is power, and we're here to make sure you
stay plugged into the latest insights, tips.
Speaker 2: And code updates.
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your circuits clear, and you're my focused because here at
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From all of us here at Electrical Code Academy. Thank
you for all your support and we will see you
on the next amazing Master of the NEC podcast episode.