Speaker 1: You see somethings are going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 3: What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects.
Speaker 4: This episode will be continuing off the Kabala series and
Speaker 4: I got my man the Branch, Matt and Gin and
Speaker 4: Di Ninja with us again, so you already know this
Speaker 4: should be a banger and it should be a good one.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna introduce them and let them plug themselves before
Speaker 4: we get going.
Speaker 3: Branch. Sure, please let everybody know they can find you
Speaker 3: in your work.
Speaker 5: Hey guys, I spent a lot of time on Twitter
Speaker 5: these days, says William Burkin, so you can find me
Speaker 5: on there and the Great Launch. We host spaces each Friday.
Speaker 5: Although we missed Gin and Soler this past Friday. It's
Speaker 5: nice to be back with him today. And you can
Speaker 5: also check me out on Symbolic Studies. Did a blurable
Speaker 5: there with the Virgo symbolialism recently, so that was a
Speaker 5: lot of fun. Of course, Jen and I are always
Speaker 5: recording things, and I think we did a recent one
Speaker 5: with mister Lamb that I'm not sure I fits out
Speaker 5: or not, but that was a lot of fun. The
Speaker 5: last time I was here with you, guys, and of
Speaker 5: course we did that just said I think the last
Speaker 5: time as well, so that was another banger. So it's
Speaker 5: nice to see you guys so frequently. I really enjoy
Speaker 5: this hobby. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: I appreciate I appreciate you input on stuff for real,
Speaker 4: So thank you for making it again.
Speaker 3: And we got Matt, what is going on? How are you?
Speaker 6: What's up? Very glad to be here again. Like the
Speaker 6: Bridge said, it's always good to be well. First of all,
Speaker 6: weekly on the spaces, so every Friday we're there on
Speaker 6: Twitter and now recently on these as well, so we
Speaker 6: had the last one was has said in Yivura, and
Speaker 6: before that it was that and be not if I'm
Speaker 6: not mistaken. Those are really nice. Today is going to
Speaker 6: be the same, very nice stuff. And yeah, you can
Speaker 6: find me on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok all the same
Speaker 6: at Mettmore nineteen. There's also my website with some cool
Speaker 6: stuff there, which is Kabala dot com. That is k
Speaker 6: A A b A l a h. That's a little
Speaker 6: different writing there. And there's also the Grade Lodge website
Speaker 6: which is super cool. So the true Grade Lodge with
Speaker 6: a v instead of a you. So the True Grade
Speaker 6: Lunch dot com as well, and uh yeah, I feel
Speaker 6: like the kind of stuff that we talk about, you're
Speaker 6: going to be pretty much the same on all the
Speaker 6: other platforms. And yeah, thanks a lot Nick for inviting again.
Speaker 4: No, of course, thank you for joining me. Love your
Speaker 4: input on the Kabbala for real. And finally we got
Speaker 4: the Lodge master himself. We got Nina.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, boss, appreciate it. Mister ninety three.
Speaker 2: Of course, to our not our other brother Soular, I
Speaker 2: just want to mention him right at the bat like
Speaker 2: I did invite him. And of course he is like
Speaker 2: the fourth pillar as I would call it, of our
Speaker 2: sort of inner circle. So if you are, I echo
Speaker 2: everything that Joshua and Matt of course said, because it
Speaker 2: also promotes everything that we do separately and then always together.
Speaker 2: So I have had an amazing time doing those co
Speaker 2: host spaces and now on YouTube. So as Matt said,
Speaker 2: like the True Gray Lodge, check us out Meta Magicians
Speaker 2: for a new aon very cool. All our work is
Speaker 2: there and you can also listen to Threshold Saints. I
Speaker 2: just dropped an episode with Crystal Drinkwater, who's been on
Speaker 2: this show, O call rejects the great episode with her,
Speaker 2: both on this show and on my own, So if
Speaker 2: you're interested in herbalism, geo ontology and all of that,
Speaker 2: please check that out. I also have an episode with
Speaker 2: Kelby Losak, who is another outlet, kind of bad boy
Speaker 2: writer on Twitter and just a great dude and he's
Speaker 2: actually like a real magician, and so his episode will
Speaker 2: also drop this week, so just keep a lookout for that.
Speaker 2: But the Grey Lodge every Friday YouTube and yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's where you can find us. And we're always doing
Speaker 2: either Friday Nightgnostic Mass or we do a series. So
Speaker 2: thank you, guys, no.
Speaker 4: Thank you, I appreciate it. Definitely definitely go check out
Speaker 4: his stuff. Domin on that Domino episode. Yeah, people, if
Speaker 4: you heard her on the show before, I highly suggested
Speaker 4: go check her out, especially for like the erbalism if
Speaker 4: you haven't heard it before. If you go check that out,
Speaker 4: you're not going to get some wikawu shit, You're actually
Speaker 4: going to get like some intelligent conversation about herbs. So
Speaker 4: I highly suggest to go listen to her. She happens
Speaker 4: to catch this episode. Sorry I have not gotten back
Speaker 4: to you, but I do plan on getting you back on.
Speaker 4: I kind of left her hanging. Wanted to get her
Speaker 4: back on myself, but sorry, I forgot, But highly go
Speaker 4: check out her work. I think she's actually really good
Speaker 4: at what she does, and I'm sure if Gin had
Speaker 4: her on, it was a banger of an episode.
Speaker 3: So now we're gonna get into it.
Speaker 4: We got to Kabbala, and if memory serves me correctly,
Speaker 4: we're gonna be talking about Tiffereth and that suck. So
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do what we did last time. I got
Speaker 4: a bunch of people in here going ninety three sorr.
Speaker 4: It's catching me off God, and do what I did
Speaker 4: last time. I'm gonna read all the associations. These guys
Speaker 4: want to chime in or interrupt me, they can go
Speaker 4: for it, or we'll just talk amongst ourselves after I'm
Speaker 4: done reading the associations again, I just want to get
Speaker 4: them in. I do think it's important to understand these things.
Speaker 4: I could probably take days if we went into why
Speaker 4: they all do, which we don't have time for. But again,
Speaker 4: I'm just mentioning it because I do think it's important
Speaker 4: to go back and try to understand and even maybe
Speaker 4: meditate on why all these associated with that? You know,
Speaker 4: many reasons, I'm sure. So now let me pull up
Speaker 4: my notes, all right, So Tifferreth beauty. Tifferreth the sixth
Speaker 4: ceph means beauty and occupies the center of the trees
Speaker 4: middle pillar. It is considered as a role as mediating
Speaker 4: mediating intelligence, unifying higher and lower Sepharath. Some call it
Speaker 4: the sphere of the Redeemer or Kether on a lower arc.
Speaker 4: Tiffareth can also, as has been said, let's us see
Speaker 4: the Father reflected in the sun. That's s O N though,
Speaker 4: the central mediating intelligence that connects all creation and integrates
Speaker 4: divine and human consciousness. The titles and symbolic images in
Speaker 4: the tie one title to it could be a z
Speaker 4: r Z a r Apin the lesser countenance it could
Speaker 4: be called Melek or King Adam the Son. The magical
Speaker 4: image is given as a majestic king. A child can
Speaker 4: be used a sacrificed God, reflecting Tiffareth's three aspects, and
Speaker 4: Tiffareth also kind of has like a sacrificial or kind
Speaker 4: of my opinion, sacrificial Christ like aspect used there. The
Speaker 4: divine name and archangel would be uh I'm probably gonna
Speaker 4: screw this up. Yad hey fad hey alo a vadad
Speaker 4: something to that effect. Or it could be uh, I
Speaker 4: don't know. Some people yah he va yeah, yeah. However
Speaker 4: you want to pronounce that, sometimes some people will pronounce
Speaker 4: that a little bit differently, and that is meaning the
Speaker 4: lord of knowledge. The archangel is Raphael, angel of the Sun.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 4: The corresponding order of angels is the Malachim or the kings,
Speaker 4: and some people will put down that Rafael governs the
Speaker 4: heir in this And even when it comes to I
Speaker 4: would say, like when you want to start looking at
Speaker 4: Tiffareth or well, this one, I can get confusing sometimes
Speaker 4: if you want to look at cobalistic and planetary stuff,
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it's Tehareth, it might be Mars,
Speaker 4: it might be both. Sometimes you can see contradicting angels
Speaker 4: because of the planetary sphere being a little bit different
Speaker 4: than kind of what they're using the archangel for on
Speaker 4: the kabalistic tree, the spiritual experience, I'm sorry, past the
Speaker 4: planet in chakra. The planetary sphere is the song, the
Speaker 4: virtue and the vice devotion to the great work, spiritual service.
Speaker 4: That's Teffaret's virtue and pride is its device, and the
Speaker 4: devotion to the great work is kind of the goal
Speaker 4: that is centered around Tiffareth. The spiritual experience is the
Speaker 4: vision of harmony of things and the mysteries of the crucifixion.
Speaker 4: I would also say, I think a lot of a
Speaker 4: lot of cultists or ceremonial magicians would probably even say
Speaker 4: this is where you would come into contact with your
Speaker 4: holy guardian angel. Symbols would be the lamin, the symbolic breastplate,
Speaker 4: the rosy cross, the cavalry or crucifixion cross in a
Speaker 4: truncated pyramid and cube quick the tarot correspondences the six
Speaker 4: the suit of sixes. Obviously it's a six sphere, so
Speaker 4: that goes with that. And the colors, which I do
Speaker 4: think are interesting actually absolute could be a clear rose, pink,
Speaker 4: Bria would be yellow, et c would be rich salmon
Speaker 4: or pink, and asia Siah however, you call that a
Speaker 4: golden amber. The psychological and spiritual function Tiffareth could be
Speaker 4: seen as the focus of the higher sell for individuality,
Speaker 4: the point where divine smark, Spark, Chestin and Goeburg manifests
Speaker 4: as conscious love and wisdom on the personality Tiffareth is
Speaker 4: the keystone of the tree, holding the balance between all
Speaker 4: other Cepharroth. So yeah, that's about all I got on
Speaker 4: the I guess the associations and the correspondences. I don't
Speaker 4: know if any of you wanted to say something continue
Speaker 4: after that.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to find a picture of the sacred
Speaker 2: Heart that I deemed good enough to show for my example.
Speaker 2: But I will all start and just say it's so interesting.
Speaker 2: And matt Owas says this is that every time we
Speaker 2: decide as a group to discuss Kabala, the ideas sort
Speaker 2: of permeate the entire week. And so this morning, Joshua
Speaker 2: and I were even discussing what planetary correspondences we like
Speaker 2: for Raphael and Michael. And it is interesting that Nick
Speaker 2: you said that is that Raphael can be associated with
Speaker 2: both mercury and the sun, as Michael can also be
Speaker 2: associated with mercury.
Speaker 4: It's exactly the two that get flipped around. That's why
Speaker 4: I was like, I think it's Wars or the Son. Yeah,
Speaker 4: if you go by planetary stuff and then Kabala, and
Speaker 4: I think it's like switch go out.
Speaker 3: But it makes sense though the way the way that
Speaker 3: you explain it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it also is interesting because Raphael is the
Speaker 2: angel of healing. He actually doesn't hold any Marshall implements
Speaker 2: his implement as a fish and sometimes a scale, but
Speaker 2: it's not the same kind of scale that Michael holds.
Speaker 2: Sometimes Michael will also hold a scale, very interestingly, but
Speaker 2: different kinds of scale. Rafael's scale is for is for
Speaker 2: the medicinal things like measuring like frankincense or all of
Speaker 2: both of those resins. Obviously a goat, Yeah, exactly. He's
Speaker 2: a much more alchemical, maybe hermetic angel, where Michael is
Speaker 2: much more fixed, you could say almost, because he holds
Speaker 2: in his traditional iconography a sword and a shield. So
Speaker 2: when he very that's very Givera and gebela right like,
Speaker 2: but meeting together in synthesis. It's the it's the protector,
Speaker 2: the bulwark against the forces of darkness, plus the sword,
Speaker 2: the flaming sword that cuts them away. So but then
Speaker 2: sometimes you will see him holding a scale. When you
Speaker 2: see him holding a scale, it actually makes him more Gavratic,
Speaker 2: even in like I know we discussed this last time
Speaker 2: in Matt's obviously Brazilian but in Kimbonda you will often
Speaker 2: see Saint Michael depicted as kind of the lord of
Speaker 2: the issue when he holds the scale, specifically the scale,
Speaker 2: because he's a little more left handed at that in
Speaker 2: that iconography, and less tifferatic, less balanced, less like harmonious.
Speaker 2: It's not that he is, but he brings a more
Speaker 2: martial quality. And as someone who has some experience with
Speaker 2: the angels, I will have to I have to say
Speaker 2: that I never really like him for that gaverratic association.
Speaker 2: I find it too hot of energy for me. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying this is just my preference. I always found
Speaker 2: it it heated him up too much, so be careful
Speaker 2: with that. I prefer him more at a tifferatic kind
Speaker 2: of a more neutral place or a more balanced place.
Speaker 5: I would add to the emphasis of tip breath with
Speaker 5: the central column made me think of the scales.
Speaker 1: So when he mentioned the scales, I.
Speaker 5: Wanted to kind of reiterate that that, you know, maybe
Speaker 5: that's kind of why we see the angels is maybe
Speaker 5: one is kind of a left handed quality and a
Speaker 5: right handed quality on either side of the you know,
Speaker 5: those pans on either side of the scale, you know,
Speaker 5: whereas tip rats kind of like the column itself that
Speaker 5: they balance upon. So maybe you know, that's some kind
Speaker 5: of reference to maybe how that judgment is discerned, because
Speaker 5: the sword a lot of times too, is used to
Speaker 5: point to each letter of the law, kind of like
Speaker 5: the pointer fingers used when you're doing tourist study. We're
Speaker 5: not supposed touch it with our hands, you know. So,
Speaker 5: and the fishes too made me think of.
Speaker 1: There's a I think when you're.
Speaker 5: Dealing with Asmodius, you know, there was some type of
Speaker 5: reference in the and a sol on about how fish
Speaker 5: burning fish guts repelled him or gave you control over him,
Speaker 5: or something like that, And so I would be curious
Speaker 5: to know of the correspondence between maybe Raphael and as
Speaker 5: Moody is maybe that's the angel that frustrates him or something.
Speaker 1: I was just passing thought that I had in my head.
Speaker 6: Yeah, one thing it can Oh, sorry, I think we
Speaker 6: lost you for good.
Speaker 1: Sorry there was a slight delay. I was just mentioned
Speaker 1: we were sorry about that. I was just going to say.
Speaker 5: We also were talking about the Ninja turtles in the
Speaker 5: context of Michael Angelo and Raphael this morning, so I
Speaker 5: thought that was a weird coincidence.
Speaker 1: But we were talking about the angels too. Sorry to
Speaker 1: talk ever you mad.
Speaker 6: No, no, no good, I tell you had ended. So
Speaker 6: a lot of things that I've thought about here. So
Speaker 6: first of all, when Nick said about the sacrificial kind
Speaker 6: of element of different to the system that I use,
Speaker 6: I connect Lamed and the hank and to the path
Speaker 6: between Gevura and different. So that to me makes a
Speaker 6: lot of sense. Again you kind of have the hangman
Speaker 6: there making that sacrificial element, which would also be Libra.
Speaker 6: So again talking about the scales and everything about the
Speaker 6: associations that can be different, I have two ways of thinking.
Speaker 6: So first of all, I talk many times about this.
Speaker 6: I think I talked here as well. But in the
Speaker 6: spaces there is this idea that the tree can change
Speaker 6: not only with time, but maybe through the perspective. So
Speaker 6: for example, if you want to create a religion out
Speaker 6: of someone, that person will be usually or that thing
Speaker 6: whatever will usually add different. So then again we have
Speaker 6: the importance of different being the center of the tree.
Speaker 6: But then if maybe you want to do another religion
Speaker 6: and that same character which was in the previous one
Speaker 6: is there now, maybe he has to be in Gevua
Speaker 6: for the religion to make sense, because if he was
Speaker 6: also in different he would conflate. It's kind of like
Speaker 6: if you want to make a religion auto of you know, Jesus,
Speaker 6: you Jesus must be the solar character. So even if
Speaker 6: there's another solar guy, he kind of has to go
Speaker 6: somewhere else otherwise it again conflicts the symology there. So
Speaker 6: I think there's so firstly, there's this right, this idea
Speaker 6: of the treat always changing, evolving as long. But there's
Speaker 6: also a lot of bs. So that's why, you know,
Speaker 6: just studying the books and whatever. I think, don't do it.
Speaker 6: If you want to do properly, you know, get get
Speaker 6: a proper initiation, go get the expertses yourself. Which I
Speaker 6: think it's also very tiperatic. Let's say you are getting
Speaker 6: the experienced, so the thing itself that you're trying to practice,
Speaker 6: like Nick said, the higher self that are trying to achieve.
Speaker 6: You know, you could also say it's an analogy you
Speaker 6: can make. It's if you're doing martial arts when you
Speaker 6: get the black belt to in my understanding, would be
Speaker 6: when you reach the threat in that thing. So it's
Speaker 6: not the end like you basically just you're about to
Speaker 6: start actual practice. You know, you got there, okay, and
Speaker 6: now I see clearly what I need and so on
Speaker 6: and and again we have the importance of different on astrology,
Speaker 6: like why nowadays a lot of people just care about
Speaker 6: their their sun signs because well, your son is the
Speaker 6: core of your being. It's not the whole of your being,
Speaker 6: but it's it's the core. It's there. So like Joshua
Speaker 6: was saying that it's in the middle, not only in
Speaker 6: the middle column, but in the middle of the tree.
Speaker 6: It has the most connections with other spheres, so it
Speaker 6: plays a lot this like central. Again, if you're talking beauty,
Speaker 6: beauty is very related to harmony. So again the scales
Speaker 6: making sure that things are harmonized are in center and
Speaker 6: not you know, Gevura is here, and then he said
Speaker 6: it's like here and then net size on the other place,
Speaker 6: like tiferend is making sure everyone is in the center,
Speaker 6: like gravitas is working. Yeah, there's again a billion things
Speaker 6: we can talk about different here, but those are the
Speaker 6: ones that came up to mine.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 4: One thing I did want to mention that I I
Speaker 4: mentioned the colors I find that interesting about like even
Speaker 4: how they bring up pink salmon.
Speaker 3: You know, and then the whole thing with.
Speaker 4: Jesus kind of being like the fisher of men. And
Speaker 4: then I do find it interesting how like a salmon,
Speaker 4: I think it's pink salmon will spolen upstream. So I
Speaker 4: even wondered if that's like somehow showing you like being
Speaker 4: able to go like back and forth, because you're gonna
Speaker 4: go down the tree and you're gonna go back up.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I do think Tiffert like might show like it's
Speaker 4: kind of an area of maybe like you hit a
Speaker 4: switch to where you're gonna start going the other way,
Speaker 4: or almost like where I guess the ac DC switches
Speaker 4: an electricity or something like that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: So I've looked at it like that or thought of
Speaker 4: it as possibly like not like if I hate to
Speaker 4: say frequency or like a vibration, or like a state
Speaker 4: of mind you even have to be and or your
Speaker 4: intentions or your your where your mind is even at
Speaker 4: to even go any father, and like this sacrificial stuff
Speaker 4: would be the stuff that you have to leave behind
Speaker 4: the attitudes and behavior in ways of thinking to even
Speaker 4: possibly even have a contact with God. You know, I
Speaker 4: still think there's things that you have to your old
Speaker 4: self that you have to slang and get rid of.
Speaker 4: So that was just other stuff I wanted to mention
Speaker 4: about Tifferreth.
Speaker 3: Before we went on to gym.
Speaker 6: Maybe one last thing, now that you mention it, that
Speaker 6: came up to mine as well. I remember if I
Speaker 6: bring it up on the heassett in Gevera. But I'll
Speaker 6: just refresh the way they understand when you're trying to
Speaker 6: get something into my hood.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: I prefer using that way because it's what we do
Speaker 6: every day. It's not every day that we go up
Speaker 6: the tree, but every day we bring stuff into the world. Right,
Speaker 6: so he said, would be in very basic terms, when
Speaker 6: you're seeing the good things about what you're trying to do,
Speaker 6: like the pros like you're feeling like the good sensations
Speaker 6: about let's say what you're about to eat or the
Speaker 6: project that you're doing. You're seeing all the money maybe
Speaker 6: that can be earned, all the success. Everything good. Right
Speaker 6: in theory, Gievera would be the opposite, like what's the
Speaker 6: discipline that you need to do it? What are maybe
Speaker 6: the the like cons of doing it. Let's say, oh,
Speaker 6: I want to buy like a supercar. Sure, you're gonna
Speaker 6: have to spend a lot of money. You're gonna have
Speaker 6: people maybe now looking at you wanting to rob you
Speaker 6: or whatever. So there are cons doing things. They are disciplined.
Speaker 6: If you want the apps, you need to you know,
Speaker 6: practice everything as want stop eating maybe some stuff that
Speaker 6: you like to eat to me. Then tifferread is the
Speaker 6: synthesis of those boat two things like, Okay, how can
Speaker 6: I harmonize the good the bad? How can I see
Speaker 6: the beauty of what I am creating? And if it's
Speaker 6: not beauty and if I cannot harmonize, maybe there there's
Speaker 6: too many cons, then you probably shouldn't do it, you know.
Speaker 6: Like again, if you want to eat something and then
Speaker 6: you look at it and it's like dark and gray
Speaker 6: and looks like a you know, like a stew of something,
Speaker 6: then again you're not gonna eat it. That's the Tifferat
Speaker 6: kind of blocking not working well there. And also if
Speaker 6: you think about it, then there's this there's the stalk
Speaker 6: usually you know nowadays a oh, you know, everyone has
Speaker 6: their beauty and swim and sure in the way different
Speaker 6: works in everyone, but some people worker better than others.
Speaker 6: So yes, beauty exists like different as a proof, but
Speaker 6: that there is such a thing as but it is
Speaker 6: not the only you know, a construct or whatever. There
Speaker 6: is a concept which is beautiful in it. You can
Speaker 6: find it in nature for example. They'll have to be
Speaker 6: a social thing, right so that when you were talking
Speaker 6: about them, you know, bringing the things. That's one that
Speaker 6: I this came to mind.
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's something that made me think about it
Speaker 3: while you were talking to I don't know what it was.
Speaker 4: Or maybe I just realized I didn't say it the
Speaker 4: way I wanted to when I had mentioned like the
Speaker 4: ac DC, I think a better way I should have
Speaker 4: said is that I actually do think, you know, this
Speaker 4: is begetting into I guess the science aspect, if you
Speaker 4: think the couple is actually pointing to like stuff that's
Speaker 4: you know, on your body. You know I had said
Speaker 4: the vague I do think it might actually be pointing
Speaker 4: out part of your vegus nerve, which does does send
Speaker 4: signals back and forth. So that would be kind of
Speaker 4: like back and forth again, you know, being able to
Speaker 4: travel from one.
Speaker 3: End to the next. So I do think that's a possibility.
Speaker 4: So I guess that's another way I could explain it
Speaker 4: For some people who understand the vegas nerve that's exactly
Speaker 4: what I was getting, a kind of like the switching,
Speaker 4: being able to go back and forth. Now, I see
Speaker 4: Jin has some some art you like to show, so.
Speaker 3: Pull some of this up.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you, thanks boss, appreciate. Well, everybody
Speaker 2: knows that I love iconography because it shows people in
Speaker 2: a very material way, like exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: So generally, I think I'm not trying to speak for
Speaker 2: anyone here, but I think i'll just say in general,
Speaker 2: I think we all speak from a sepharatic experience perspective.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that, of course, matt em besides, is
Speaker 2: the importance of a couple of stick initiation. I agree
Speaker 2: with that in those terms, but I also think that
Speaker 2: experience is like hugely important and to like understand how
Speaker 2: the city's work. So a lot of what we're talking
Speaker 2: about is maybe more intermediate. But that's why I like
Speaker 2: the iconography, because I think it shows people at least
Speaker 2: it can open, as Nick said, like it flips a
Speaker 2: switch for them to sort of experience it as we're
Speaker 2: discussing it, because they can actually see the colors that
Speaker 2: you would actually see in a sepharatic experience. And then
Speaker 2: That's just my opinion, obviously, but I think that's a
Speaker 2: good way to describe it. And that's how I always
Speaker 2: found it. Like when I used to listen to like
Speaker 2: Nick or anyone else talk about sepharaotic experiences, I would
Speaker 2: always think of the iconography and then relate it in
Speaker 2: that way. So this is Jesus of the sacred heart.
Speaker 2: This is a very interesting image. I've talked about it
Speaker 2: many times on the show. I've probably showed a similar image.
Speaker 2: This is the tefaratic image if you want to use
Speaker 2: like obviously I used one with blue and red, but
Speaker 2: there are ones where the heart is completely gold or
Speaker 2: completely gilded. This is obviously gold is the chemical metal
Speaker 2: of the sun. Of course, Maps discussed on the importance
Speaker 2: of Hesseen and Gevra together. That's really what Tiffer it is.
Speaker 2: It's a it's the forging of the fire, but you
Speaker 2: also need water in alkam All alchemy. It's not just fire.
Speaker 2: Fires one transmutation, but water is another. And but it's
Speaker 2: in their synthesis. So people are going to say, okay,
Speaker 2: well you can't synthesize fire and water. Well, actually you can.
Speaker 2: It's it's in it's in plasma diamond thunder lightning. That's
Speaker 2: really like a kind of synthesis. So it's like Nick's
Speaker 2: talking about like a switch, well a CDC, like what
Speaker 2: is more plus ultra, more in the polarities than that.
Speaker 2: And so I agree with what Nick said. That is
Speaker 2: how I think of tiffer It. This is just me
Speaker 2: but and I might be wrong, but this is how
Speaker 2: I think of it. This is not my this is
Speaker 2: not my strength. Sha we'll say yo.
Speaker 3: I was going to say too, I was going to
Speaker 3: say that.
Speaker 4: And it's even because of my own experiences that has
Speaker 4: even made me hard to understand Tifferith.
Speaker 3: Believe it or not, Yes, because I totally agree with you.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know what this holy Guardian angel
Speaker 4: thing is about because from my experience, I just blessed
Speaker 4: though I fucking come into contact with the buddy.
Speaker 3: Of mine that's gonna help me do it, you know.
Speaker 3: I'm just I don't know. I just don't get it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I just this one is hard for me.
Speaker 2: Well, the Rosicrusians agree with you, Nick, So they created
Speaker 2: this image in the sixteen hundreds, late mid sixteen hundreds,
Speaker 2: and you've discussed this on your solo episodes and also
Speaker 2: the ones you research with Lisa when you've discussed like
Speaker 2: the medieval and like Enlightenment magicians, like this is a
Speaker 2: reintroduction of Kabbala back into the church, and so they
Speaker 2: had done this previously, like Hildegard of Bingen time like tenth, eleventh,
Speaker 2: twelfth century. Yeah, there was a reintroduction of Kabala then,
Speaker 2: but then clearly again with the rosicrusions. So I think
Speaker 2: that this image perfectly encapsulates a lot of what different is.
Speaker 2: It's not his whole being, meaning that the vessel is
Speaker 2: supposed to be empty, sopposed to be like a golden vessel. Like.
Speaker 2: Another good image for this is actually our complementary image,
Speaker 2: you could say, is Mary Magdalen and I will go
Speaker 2: find when when I'm shut up. But she holds a
Speaker 2: crystal vial, so obviously this relates to the alchemical marriage
Speaker 2: between the sun and the moon, and her tears are
Speaker 2: said to sometimes be in the vial. So it speaks
Speaker 2: that idea again of the heatless fire, because what happens
Speaker 2: when you refract light through a crystal cut crystal that
Speaker 2: is filled with a clear saline liquid, it's a you
Speaker 2: get like a prismatic effect. It's a heatless fire in
Speaker 2: the most fundamental of alchemical ways. So that's kind of
Speaker 2: what is hard is too. It's kind of a it's
Speaker 2: the redemption arc. It's the redemption arc, and that's what
Speaker 2: I like about the Like I'm not a Christian and
Speaker 2: you know, so like people can believe whatever they will
Speaker 2: or whatever they want. But for me, I actually like
Speaker 2: this a on of the sun idea of like a
Speaker 2: as an arc of redemption. I think it's important and
Speaker 2: I think it actually speaks to what Nick said about
Speaker 2: climbing the tree and how it can be. This can
Speaker 2: be a very difficult sepher because this is one that
Speaker 2: your will really really matters, like Nick saying, like he
Speaker 2: can just blast off, like this is where your will
Speaker 2: has to push you through the threshold more than anywhere else.
Speaker 2: Which is also interesting because this is also considered to
Speaker 2: be the least dense of the separa, the one most
Speaker 2: composed of light, So I think that that is an
Speaker 2: interesting way to think of it. So it is like
Speaker 2: it is where you find mercy and strength, both in
Speaker 2: perfect balance, so it's not going to extremities. And maybe
Speaker 2: that's why I'm not speaking for Nick but I'm saying
Speaker 2: for me, I tend to live more in extremities, so
Speaker 2: for me, it's perhaps harder to come together in synthesis.
Speaker 2: And so the Sun archetype, and Matt brought this up,
Speaker 2: and Joshua loves to talk about archetypes as well. But
Speaker 2: it is kind of it's perennial. It's you can see
Speaker 2: it in Buddhism, you can see it in US Hinduism,
Speaker 2: you can see it in many other religions, and even
Speaker 2: in Theosophy. So the idea of the sun son and
Speaker 2: the Sun s u win there is a relationship. Now
Speaker 2: do the Theosophists conflate a lot, Yes, do the Hindus
Speaker 2: conflate a lot? Yes, They're not like the exactly like
Speaker 2: what Ma was saying. It's not like they're not doing good.
Speaker 2: It's not good synthesis, it's not good syncretism. It's kind
Speaker 2: of like it's a little off. The story is a
Speaker 2: little off. So I like the Jesus figure for Tifferate
Speaker 2: because I think he is the most like perhaps he
Speaker 2: especially in this image, especially in more Rosicrucian ideas, like
Speaker 2: he is showing the both strength, fearlessness, gesture of boom
Speaker 2: giving and fearlessness as well as like coming into the heart,
Speaker 2: so coming into also malkouth. So that's interesting because obviously
Speaker 2: tiffer it or the sun is our great illuminator, but
Speaker 2: what is the point of illumination if you're not a
Speaker 2: prepared vessel. So that's part of the gilding. It's part
Speaker 2: of the alchemizing process that chrysopia and the gilding at
Speaker 2: the same time. So that's often why tipper It can
Speaker 2: be described as paradox as well, because there's a slight
Speaker 2: greening process, but it's not the green of code or
Speaker 2: the green of net sock. It's very different. And so
Speaker 2: I just think that that's also interesting because it's like
Speaker 2: the preparation and what is it goes into the vessel. Well,
Speaker 2: the vessel is empty, as I said, but what is emptiness.
Speaker 2: Emptiness is just masslessness and luminousness. Everybody's heard me say
Speaker 2: this like ten million times, but that's really what it is.
Speaker 2: So it's that it's not where his consciousness is. It's
Speaker 2: just the point of where you're going to go for
Speaker 2: higher experiences or higher knowledge or higher access to those
Speaker 2: higher worlds or the higher suffer. So in many ways
Speaker 2: you can say that it's we have to prepare ourselves
Speaker 2: very much on the material world by balancing ourselves, by
Speaker 2: softening our sharp edges, by embodying those I'm not saying again,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying be Christian, but I'm saying that there's
Speaker 2: elements of the christ like figure who is a good
Speaker 2: balance of both. And so maybe that's a preparatory technique
Speaker 2: to take us through tifferent. I don't know, just some ideas.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so something very interesting about what you're saying. The
Speaker 6: first the idea of the will being very connected there,
Speaker 6: and I completely agree, Like I said, the example of
Speaker 6: the black belt, right, you cannot get a black belt
Speaker 6: in something less I mean you buy it without really
Speaker 6: wanting to do something like you have to get there,
Speaker 6: or like a diploma, right, like something that makes sure, okay,
Speaker 6: you are getting there. Getting a diploma doesn't mean you're
Speaker 6: you're good at the thing, just means now you can
Speaker 6: start practicing it for real.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 6: So that's that's more or less the same idea. And
Speaker 6: you have to still keep pushing through. Another thing about
Speaker 6: the religions, right if you don't have So that's the
Speaker 6: thing with different If you want to create a religion.
Speaker 6: You know what I mean? Religion that just isn't the
Speaker 6: spiritual stuff. Like you want to create a company. A
Speaker 6: company is kind of a religion. If you want to
Speaker 6: create a brand, if you want to create like things
Speaker 6: that people believe and give energy to. I'm calling this
Speaker 6: a religion. Okay, just for the sake of simplicity. You
Speaker 6: need it. You need a tiffer there. You need a
Speaker 6: solar archetype. That's saying because if you don't, then it's
Speaker 6: not enough to pull people in. Like that's what pulls
Speaker 6: people in, and then the other elements support like going
Speaker 6: into let's say Christianity. Okay, you go because there's the
Speaker 6: central image, but then whenever you start to want to
Speaker 6: get off, the other elements will push you back again.
Speaker 6: So there's gonna be like a gave erotic element. Maybe
Speaker 6: that if that is better for you, it's gonna pull
Speaker 6: you off, It's gonna it's gonna kind of make you
Speaker 6: believe again. The tifferate is the is correct and is
Speaker 6: the best one and swan so it kind of keeps
Speaker 6: pulling you in. So if you don't have that well done,
Speaker 6: then guess what pe purchase? Not going to go to
Speaker 6: your religion or again company or whatever, right, and another thing,
Speaker 6: and then maybe I don't know if you guys want
Speaker 6: to start talking about NETSA. But to me, it's very
Speaker 6: interesting that you can say, like Nick was saying, that
Speaker 6: the tree is the body. Okay, you cannot say that
Speaker 6: is the thing. The tree is the body. It's the
Speaker 6: first thing that we can correlate to. And in a
Speaker 6: way you can put different as being the heart. Right,
Speaker 6: so again it's the center of the body and so on.
Speaker 6: But also if you connect the colors of the spheres,
Speaker 6: especially in the which are the most basic ones with
Speaker 6: everyone will know, for example, tifferent being yellow, then you
Speaker 6: can connect that to the chuck for us, and then
Speaker 6: it would actually be the solar plexus, which is slightly
Speaker 6: be low, and then NETSA, which is the green one,
Speaker 6: which would be the hard. So you have this kind
Speaker 6: of also like people connecting NETSA, and we'll get to
Speaker 6: it to like venus and the kind of beautiful things.
Speaker 6: But then again is more related to tearfread. So there's
Speaker 6: there seems to be this kind of exchange there, which
Speaker 6: to me makes a lot of sense because when we
Speaker 6: think about basic colors we have when we are talking
Speaker 6: about painting, painting. So usually in school we learn about
Speaker 6: like blue, red and yellow, which by chance, right by chance,
Speaker 6: it's has said give and tifferent just by chance. But
Speaker 6: then when you come to the computer, for example, because
Speaker 6: the different ways the light has to be computed, you
Speaker 6: have actually red, green, and blue. So now you'd have
Speaker 6: and we'll get to it to Nitsa. So I don't know.
Speaker 6: I found it's an interesting bridge when we want to
Speaker 6: get to it, this kind of correlations that the two
Speaker 6: of them have, or this kind of mix and match
Speaker 6: that I was thinking about here when when Gen was speaking, I.
Speaker 3: Like that, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I just want to say, yeah, I agree one hundred
Speaker 2: percent with what Matt said. And even if you if
Speaker 2: you don't mind pulling up the two other images that
Speaker 2: I have, Nick, it'll show exactly what Matt's talking about.
Speaker 2: So just think of it in terms of all the
Speaker 2: colors that we describe. So he's the lion head deity.
Speaker 2: This is narm Simha. Usually he's depicted as actually eating
Speaker 2: a demon on his lap, so you can see like
Speaker 2: the viscera and all the intestines and stuff, and like
Speaker 2: the walls of the palace are covered in blood because
Speaker 2: he actually drinks the blood of the demon and then
Speaker 2: he starts eating the gods. That's kind of the story.
Speaker 2: So he's here depicted with his wife, who is can
Speaker 2: be said to be Lochsmis, who can be said to
Speaker 2: embody Venus. So I think that's very interesting. And she's
Speaker 2: also wearing a pink sorry, he's obviously wearing the green
Speaker 2: around his waist. He's obviously wearing gold.
Speaker 3: He uh.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of tiferatic things in this image,
Speaker 2: I think, and you know, his his his fault as
Speaker 2: a worldly hero is his ego, So this is kind
Speaker 2: of the law or the beast. You could even say
Speaker 2: like he's a demi urgic figure in some ways of thinking,
Speaker 2: in a Buddhist way of thinking, he's a demi urgic
Speaker 2: figure because he doesn't he the kingdom is his. But
Speaker 2: what happens is a king turns into a tyrant eventually
Speaker 2: as they sort of grow into that Saturnian mode, and
Speaker 2: so that can happen to him. So he has to
Speaker 2: be kind of liberated from the cycle, but he's also
Speaker 2: part of the cycle himself, So that is I think
Speaker 2: a big part of why tiffer It is both complicated,
Speaker 2: but also some people get very stuck there. So like Crowley,
Speaker 2: I think is a good example of this, Like I
Speaker 2: am the beast, Sure you are the beast, hundred percent,
Speaker 2: I totally agree. Like we are the dragons if you
Speaker 2: want to call it that ourselves or we embody those
Speaker 2: qualities at least maybe not physical like we're not all
Speaker 2: nagas pun not intended, but you know, but in a
Speaker 2: way we are the dragons. So we have to kind
Speaker 2: of rise up into higher consciousness. But if you already
Speaker 2: attain the kingdom, attain sort of this lower the mastery
Speaker 2: of the lower worlds or what you perceive as the
Speaker 2: mastery of the lower world so of course you're going
Speaker 2: to want to experience more and more of its pleasure,
Speaker 2: is more of its delights if you want to call that,
Speaker 2: and more of the taste that exists within it. You're
Speaker 2: not going to actually want to go higher into formlessness
Speaker 2: because it's just too good. So that is that is
Speaker 2: one of the I would say pitfalls that's described in
Speaker 2: this image in particular. And then if Nick, if you
Speaker 2: don't mind doing the last one, and then we can
Speaker 2: put the nuts I'm sorry, guys, or if Josh has
Speaker 2: anything to say.
Speaker 3: I like this image how it has the gold on
Speaker 3: the pink salmon in that. Yeahah, I had a comment actually,
Speaker 3: oh that image should go for it.
Speaker 1: I only an image prior. Actually, oh, but the Christ
Speaker 1: there you go there.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to point out in this image in
Speaker 5: particular where we see the crown. Of course this is
Speaker 5: an artistic interpretation, but we do commonly see arcs in
Speaker 5: that image there. And of course we're always talking about
Speaker 5: arc angels, and you know, the degrees of the arcs
Speaker 5: all on each.
Speaker 1: Angels represented by a different arc.
Speaker 5: So there could be some extra stuff encoded in there,
Speaker 5: depending on what the math is that we're looking at
Speaker 5: right there. And of course I agree that you know
Speaker 5: he is the Kabbala tree in this essence, right we
Speaker 5: got the crown and the heart. But I think the
Speaker 5: vegus nerve you were talking about earlier might lend itself
Speaker 5: to the mind and heart connection, or the soul heart connection,
Speaker 5: whatever connection there might be between the crown and the heart.
Speaker 5: There's a meditation by a master chokok Sui I think
Speaker 5: his name is. He does a meditation on twin hearts,
Speaker 5: and I know that that really emphasizes the heart and crown,
Speaker 5: but he places a great emphasis on pink light also
Speaker 5: in the meditation, So I thought that was curious when
Speaker 5: you mentioned that, gen it made me think of that meditation.
Speaker 5: And also you mentioned how tipp breath was mostly light
Speaker 5: and how it also had a perido or green shade
Speaker 5: to it, and I couldn't help but think of the
Speaker 5: fact that plant life is green, and how there might
Speaker 5: be some type of connection there with maybe mercy or love,
Speaker 5: because I'm reminded of the story of the Arc and
Speaker 5: the flood again arc and how it wasn't until Noah
Speaker 5: was brought a olive sprig by the dove that he
Speaker 5: knew that the that the garuva had ended the judgment,
Speaker 5: And so there may be maybe this the sprig of aries,
Speaker 5: even the green sprouting, maybybe that's somewhat symbolic and related.
Speaker 5: But I had a question from Matt real quick before
Speaker 5: we moved on to the Netsac. So with you mentioned
Speaker 5: how tip Berreth had the most connection, and so it
Speaker 5: came to mind all of the different paths that connect
Speaker 5: to tip rat each have a Hebrew letter assigned, so
Speaker 5: I was curious if you had ever taken all of
Speaker 5: them together, and maybe if that was an anagram, or
Speaker 5: you know, if there was any curiosities that maybe sprang
Speaker 5: forth from from taking those letters and looking at them together.
Speaker 5: But the one final thought I had was how you
Speaker 5: guys were talking about how these things can relate to
Speaker 5: love in different ways, both right and left, it seemed like,
Speaker 5: and I was.
Speaker 1: Thinking, like, oh, people can love to fight, or they
Speaker 1: can love to love. You can love to do a
Speaker 1: lot of things.
Speaker 5: And when you just hear somebody exclaim I love this
Speaker 5: or that, whatever it might be, might be kind of
Speaker 5: silly or superficial. But at the same and at some
Speaker 5: level though they're tapping and something's filling their tip rat
Speaker 5: in that regard, right, So whatever be a path or whatever. Anyway,
Speaker 5: I just wanted to ask you that question about the paths.
Speaker 6: I can quickly answer the letters. I never tried. This
Speaker 6: is a very nice idea, but I can quickly say
Speaker 6: the letters. And then maybe somebody cooks up while the
Speaker 6: others are talking. So if we want to go in order,
Speaker 6: we would have gimmel hit zion, you'd lahmed noon summer,
Speaker 6: and I'm do what you will. Let's see if there's
Speaker 6: a kind of a connection there but then one thing
Speaker 6: that is actually very funny about that is that we
Speaker 6: would have then we have eight connections, and then I
Speaker 6: get reminded of like Buddha in the eight paths, right,
Speaker 6: maybe all leading to different in a way, who knows.
Speaker 6: So that was a very interesting question. I'll think about
Speaker 6: it also, like how to connect those letters?
Speaker 5: Well, shooting off the hip, I was just thinking how
Speaker 5: the minora has seven branches, but the eighth is for
Speaker 5: the servant candle, the shamash, So maybe tip a rat.
Speaker 5: Maybe that's kind of the menora analogous thing there. I'm
Speaker 5: not sure.
Speaker 1: I was just sking.
Speaker 2: This is really interesting because I haven't talked about this
Speaker 2: a lot lately, but obviously the beginning of my podcast career,
Speaker 2: even that early episodes with Nick, I talked about this
Speaker 2: goddess who is at what I would say it was
Speaker 2: at tiffer It. She's Parado in color, but she also
Speaker 2: wears like red, and she has other wears a lot
Speaker 2: of gold and all these things. Okay, so she I
Speaker 2: said that she matches tiffer It in certain qualities, and
Speaker 2: she has eight limbs, and so if you understand the
Speaker 2: tontric iconography in it, she has to have eight lovers,
Speaker 2: eight time kings. And so how you would do this
Speaker 2: this is like old fashioned medieval contra. This is not
Speaker 2: I'm not saying to do this, I'm just saying this
Speaker 2: is how the text describes. So you would pick eight
Speaker 2: men dependent on their birth date and certain archetypes that
Speaker 2: they embody physically. And so the Chandali, the princess of
Speaker 2: the outcase, she would go and have relations with all
Speaker 2: of these people, and then she would be kind of
Speaker 2: the queen of Tiffert. And so what that was supposed
Speaker 2: to give as the boon is the quality of fame worldwide, renown,
Speaker 2: extreme powers to magnetize, to bring people into your song,
Speaker 2: ritual words in grammar. So that plays off of what
Speaker 2: Matt said. And it's so interesting because she is the
Speaker 2: goddess who puts the words and the tempo and the
Speaker 2: order the actual syntax of magical music. So not just
Speaker 2: regular music. This is ritual music composed in a very
Speaker 2: specific using contra to logic kind of way. So she
Speaker 2: is the goddess of that of synthesis in the truest sense.
Speaker 2: So very interesting about the letters, And because the goddess
Speaker 2: is in tntra, it's not necessarily cross system, but they
Speaker 2: are the letters because they are also light, so very interesting,
Speaker 2: I think as well. But what else was I gonna say? Okay,
Speaker 2: so to I want to just before we go to nutsac,
Speaker 2: can we just do the last sorry? Sorry Nick. If
Speaker 2: we can do the dragon image, I think it'll this
Speaker 2: will tie into net SoC I think this will give
Speaker 2: us a good snakes and ladders. So this is Rahula
Speaker 2: saw so Rahula. People will know him if they know
Speaker 2: Vedic astrology as Rahu and Katu. The Buddhist image, obviously
Speaker 2: is not It's not just his head and his tail,
Speaker 2: which is how the Vedics would see him as two
Speaker 2: separate entities. He's actually one entity. He's unified, and he
Speaker 2: has wait for it, eight heads on his crown, and
Speaker 2: he also has a raven's crown, so the raven is
Speaker 2: his ninth quote unquote head. Some people would say that
Speaker 2: the raven represents Shawnee or Saturn, so that would be
Speaker 2: kind of the end of the eight or ninth planet cycle.
Speaker 2: Vedic astrology uses a nine planetary cycle, so this is
Speaker 2: really important. So he is the king of his own planets,
Speaker 2: but he is also the king of all the planets
Speaker 2: in some ways of thinking. He's the king of space,
Speaker 2: so he obviously I chose one that had colors that
Speaker 2: I thought were appropriate for this conversation. But his tail
Speaker 2: is green. But if you understand the text, the scales
Speaker 2: can open up and they become eyes, so they become opalescent.
Speaker 2: So that's really interesting. So it's green, but it's not
Speaker 2: quite green. And even the red that they're showing him, yes,
Speaker 2: it's red, and then with the flames it appears as red,
Speaker 2: but really the tnric color is purple or brown. So
Speaker 2: I just think that those two things are very interesting
Speaker 2: when you're talking about the higher order thinking. But then
Speaker 2: of course you have the pink, you have the turquoise,
Speaker 2: you have the green clouds beneath him. So green is
Speaker 2: really the color of synthesis, red and blue. I know
Speaker 2: people are gonna be like, no, it's purple. Purple is
Speaker 2: the lower density, it's the stronger density color. Green is
Speaker 2: the true neutral color, and then pink is the color
Speaker 2: of that decoherence around it, because you need the pink
Speaker 2: to give contour to the green. This is a really
Speaker 2: important principle for alchemy, and just obviously something I talk
Speaker 2: about a lot about when we do these cabal spaces.
Speaker 2: And so the pink is not the truth, but it
Speaker 2: contains the truth because it gives contour and context to
Speaker 2: what arises in it, which if we go off Matt's
Speaker 2: example and say it's the water or excuse not the
Speaker 2: water the letters there's a language of fire and there's
Speaker 2: also a language of water. But what are those two things?
Speaker 2: Just languages of light, writing of light, words of light.
Speaker 2: So maybe the pink is there to give those things
Speaker 2: context and contour, and maybe that's what green really is,
Speaker 2: green at its most pristine quality, not is like murkier,
Speaker 2: darker qualities. But because if we think we are the
Speaker 2: if we have a big ego and we say, oh
Speaker 2: I know all the words, I have all the knowledge,
Speaker 2: I have all the things. I am God, I am
Speaker 2: the beasts. Yes, those are useful ideas, but they're also
Speaker 2: you can't stay stuck in those ideas.
Speaker 6: And that's the problem.
Speaker 2: I think we're different. But it is interesting because we
Speaker 2: just had an eclipse yesterday, So he is the dragon
Speaker 2: of the eclipse. And if you see he's holding a
Speaker 2: bow and arrow. In contrac iconography, a bow and arrow
Speaker 2: refers to the eclipse. So his tail eats the sun
Speaker 2: and his head eats the moon. But this this last
Speaker 2: eclipse was actually the reverse, so it was kind of
Speaker 2: a pull shift, you could say. Or his head ate
Speaker 2: the sun partially and his tail ate the moon a
Speaker 2: few weeks ago. So you know, that's how I agree.
Speaker 2: It's like so much about polarity, so much about looking
Speaker 2: at the astrology and not being married to it, but saying, okay,
Speaker 2: what is this telling me? This is an interesting cabalistic
Speaker 2: story of how to climb the tree because there is
Speaker 2: no greater example of how to climb the tree than
Speaker 2: snakes and ladders. Obviously the lightning path as Matt talks about,
Speaker 2: and the dragon path both, so you also have to
Speaker 2: consider that it's like the snakes and Ladders is tntra
Speaker 2: that comes from Jane Tontra that even the game that
Speaker 2: everybody knows, and it's a tontric idea of climbing the tree.
Speaker 2: They use nine spheres, particularly for Jainism, but you know
Speaker 2: they're talking about the tree. They even call it the tree.
Speaker 2: They call it Jumbovia, the rose apple tree. So there
Speaker 2: you have the reference to pink and as we talked
Speaker 2: about in the Cather episode, I like I think that
Speaker 2: pink is a very has a strong quality of kether
Speaker 2: because it has a strong quality of the truth.
Speaker 1: May I make a comment onllness image?
Speaker 3: Go for it.
Speaker 5: It reminded me how we were talking about the synthesis
Speaker 5: of fire and water earlier and just mulling it around
Speaker 5: in my head.
Speaker 1: It reminded me of that.
Speaker 5: That silly social media posts that you see sometimes where
Speaker 5: taurists will buy grilled water and it's got like seasoning
Speaker 5: and stuff on it, but it's also got a smoky flavor,
Speaker 5: and so it reminded me of the smokiness of Rahou
Speaker 5: and all that that you talk about a lot. And
Speaker 5: then when you mentioned the scales also having eyes on
Speaker 5: the bottom, I noticed Matt included the list of fletters
Speaker 5: there and the last one is I in which is I,
Speaker 5: I think right, So as you were talking about the eyes,
Speaker 5: I saw that I was like, Wow, I wonder if
Speaker 5: there's some fact strange connection here, But of course I
Speaker 5: don't know the too well enough to know, but theose
Speaker 5: are just some thoughts that came to my mind as
Speaker 5: you were discussing this image.
Speaker 1: So thank you for mentioning that.
Speaker 2: I've got one last thing and I'll be quiet, I promise.
Speaker 2: There are sixty four letters in Tontric like red alphabet,
Speaker 2: so you could say the songs sounds for alphabet has
Speaker 2: sixty four letters, but it's really the Tontric idea of
Speaker 2: the alphabet has sixty four letters, so that's obviously different
Speaker 2: and has said do you want to think of it
Speaker 2: like that? But it's also like the ten and the one,
Speaker 2: So the ten is also the one because zero's obviously empty,
Speaker 2: not nothing empty, and so he can but he is
Speaker 2: said to also have one hundred and eight extraneous eyes.
Speaker 2: So this is really interesting because in contrac astrology, the
Speaker 2: sun is actually a sign the number nine. And I've
Speaker 2: always thought that perhaps maybe they just flipped it, like
Speaker 2: maybe they saw a six or whatever, they saw the
Speaker 2: image of like whatever that is, even like whatever six
Speaker 2: even is, and they just flipped it over, and so
Speaker 2: they made it the nine instead of your sad. I
Speaker 2: don't know, just an idea, because everything is reflected, right,
Speaker 2: like there is a supernal waters and things get flipped
Speaker 2: and people come back down and they might see a
Speaker 2: different because they had a different perspective or a different
Speaker 2: system or they you know, they maybe they're thinking was flipped,
Speaker 2: because that can also flip the image for you in
Speaker 2: those higher experiences in my opinion.
Speaker 6: Now, okay, perfect timing the lamed so the hanged man,
Speaker 6: which is give to tifferent, he's literally upside down looking right,
Speaker 6: so he's looking from another perspective, literally upside down. And
Speaker 6: then I just reminded now that the path then between
Speaker 6: Tifferate and Nisa, which makes like then a straight line
Speaker 6: like this down, so when you're going down the tree,
Speaker 6: it would be one after the other. The way I
Speaker 6: connect at least a tarot would be temperance, which again
Speaker 6: talking about the making things harmonized, right, making the solution harmonized,
Speaker 6: so blending the solutions and so on. So I think
Speaker 6: that's a very very nice plot to then start talking
Speaker 6: about Niza.
Speaker 2: I agree. And his tail actually can be said to
Speaker 2: oh no, I'm sorry his head and said to be
Speaker 2: starting at Venus, so that's also interesting, Like where he
Speaker 2: comes into formation into the world would be at nut
Speaker 2: soccer Venus because he loves materiality, he loves sucks, drugs
Speaker 2: and rock and roll. I mean, that's what he is,
Speaker 2: the god of He's the you know, he prayed him
Speaker 2: for gambling luck and all that stuff. So you know
Speaker 2: they love him in Thailand especially, so yeah, he he he.
Speaker 2: He can give you all those boons, those worldly boons,
Speaker 2: but then his tail is like I'm the guru, I'm
Speaker 2: the I want to escape this this like it's very antibody, narcissism.
Speaker 2: It's very like I want to just escape this world.
Speaker 2: It's it's like a trap. It's a you know, it's
Speaker 2: a it's keeping me down. But no, that's really because
Speaker 2: he's unified, he's not separate, right, So that's really you
Speaker 2: yourself is keeping you down. You're the one who's become
Speaker 2: aggregated or you're the one who's become full of, as
Speaker 2: we would say, desire.
Speaker 3: Thank you sir, day way else want to oh, do
Speaker 3: you have another image to Jina? Did you want to
Speaker 3: show that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I thought this would be the perfect entree into
Speaker 2: unsuck because I although I don't I say that. So
Speaker 2: this is Mary Magdalene. She's holding her crystal vial. You
Speaker 2: can't really tell, but she is wearing very good tifferatic
Speaker 2: colors if you want to say that. And she also
Speaker 2: has the white and there's pink roses and then the
Speaker 2: green leaf of nets. SoC so she's standing upon the garden,
Speaker 2: you could say. So she's very literally like an illuminator,
Speaker 2: a luciferic force. Maybe you could even say of from Netsoc.
Speaker 2: But she's not fixed in Netsoc because for me, this
Speaker 2: is just for me. But and obviously I think the
Speaker 2: three of you also know this is like I don't
Speaker 2: agree that the daughter is the same as the mother.
Speaker 2: So for me, the archetypes are different and distinct and
Speaker 2: should be distinguished. So she, for me, represents the daughter archetype,
Speaker 2: meaning that she can come up maybe through nets SoC,
Speaker 2: maybe through the saint's path, you know, depending on how
Speaker 2: you understand that, the path of the Saud. So maybe
Speaker 2: it's different than the hero, but she still comes up
Speaker 2: into that that tipperatic role, but her role is hidden.
Speaker 2: And that's also a quality of pink is it's not
Speaker 2: really real. It's a crystalline color. It's a prismatic or
Speaker 2: spectral color. So it's actually a color that you could
Speaker 2: say it comes from God if you want us to
Speaker 2: call it that himself or whomever, because it's very much
Speaker 2: something that our mind places upon something that shouldn't really exist.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a crystalline spectral as I said color,
Speaker 2: it's almost electric and alive. So I just think that
Speaker 2: she's a cool image. And obviously you can say her
Speaker 2: and Jesus are married, and then that's obviously all chemical
Speaker 2: wedding stuff. But I'm not saying it literally. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it just says like it's kind of a metacosmology,
Speaker 2: like you can just use the idea of the story.
Speaker 2: They don't have to be married. They could be the sisky,
Speaker 2: they could be. You know, there's many interpretations, or some
Speaker 2: people would even say I don't believe this, but some
Speaker 2: people would even say that Mary Magdalene is Jesus himself,
Speaker 2: just dressed and maybe a hermetic garb. I've heard that.
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. I'm just putting it out
Speaker 2: there that that is what some people think.
Speaker 4: There's a humiliation ritual. And one thing I find interesting
Speaker 4: with this is just saying she's married. Her hair is braided.
Speaker 4: I know in somehow chemical texts off their hair are
Speaker 4: kind of like you know, flowing. It shows them untamed
Speaker 4: and not married, so there is something with the marriage.
Speaker 1: I would also like to mention.
Speaker 5: We have the Holy Mary's right. I think there's three
Speaker 5: of them, but Mary's usually are word refers to the
Speaker 5: sea or ocean bodies of water. And so just now
Speaker 5: I was thinking of the Holy Sea and how the
Speaker 5: church is the bride.
Speaker 1: Of Christ and all these things. Well, Mary Magdalene might
Speaker 1: also be the bride of Christ. So there might be
Speaker 1: some word play going on.
Speaker 2: There, because you can you can say, like Nick, I've
Speaker 2: heard next say this, like with not Mary Magdalene, but
Speaker 2: like our Lady of the Seven Sorrow who has the
Speaker 2: knives in her heart. That's a very Bana image. Like
Speaker 2: that's a very Saturnian image, and Saturn and or Binna
Speaker 2: and Ntsalk are obviously we've discussed this. They have a
Speaker 2: strong relationship kind of keeps her in form. So that's
Speaker 2: why I like to distinguish like the mother and the daughter,
Speaker 2: because the daughter is freer. But it's also like what
Speaker 2: Nick said, she's not completely untamed, but maybe she possesses
Speaker 2: that quality of love and will together. You often see
Speaker 2: this in what I call like rebellious princess sort of
Speaker 2: archetypes and mythology. He's possessed of herself, but she's innocent.
Speaker 2: She doesn't know about like ritual magic and blood sacrifice
Speaker 2: and like evil, but she has her love and she
Speaker 2: has her will, and that's sort of what sets her
Speaker 2: forth on the path, and that's what makes her a
Speaker 2: great saint too, because she is not tainted inherently by
Speaker 2: worldly things, even though in a tontric way we would
Speaker 2: say that to travel the path of the saint is
Speaker 2: to also walk through the carnal ground. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of how I think of her as like very much
Speaker 2: a compliment to sort of the heroic qualities of the Sun.
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily and it's not integation at all. It's
Speaker 2: been perfect compliment, perfect synthesis. That's why I like, I
Speaker 2: think it's so important to we talked about this last time,
Speaker 2: like the sufferer are not masculine or feminine inherently, and
Speaker 2: so I think it's good, like when we do these
Speaker 2: public discussions of what Cabala is, it's good that people
Speaker 2: can see that there are actually other archetypes that can
Speaker 2: appear there. And it's not in negation. It doesn't even
Speaker 2: have to be in conflation like thinking it's the hermetic Jesus. No,
Speaker 2: you can actually say that you can distinguish them. As
Speaker 2: Paris also said, the most base distinguishment in all of
Speaker 2: nature and all the phenomena is the masculine and the feminine.
Speaker 2: It's totally okay to just distinguish them. But if you
Speaker 2: go beyond, maybe you say it's oh, it's all the same.
Speaker 2: It's all the same, sure, but it's still good. I
Speaker 2: think it's useful for you know, penetrating the densities.
Speaker 3: No pun, well said, Uh you guys ready to move
Speaker 3: on to nets Sock, not Russian or anything. I'm just saying, okay,
Speaker 3: all right, so, uh where's my notes? All right?
Speaker 4: Uh so yeah, nets Sock it's one of my favorite ones.
Speaker 4: I think it's probably one of gins too, right. We
Speaker 4: tend to talk about it the most.
Speaker 2: Kay, It's so important for magic, So I'll just say for.
Speaker 4: Sure, nets SoC is the seventh sepherer, means victory and
Speaker 4: his position on the pillar of mercy. Some associate nets
Speaker 4: Sock with creativity, emotion, and endurance under the influence of Venus.
Speaker 4: We can also be called the occult intelligence pat seven
Speaker 4: or the refulgent splendor of the intellectual virtues. Again, the
Speaker 4: title of meeting at netsc equals victory or firmness. Nets
Speaker 4: Sock's virtues are as unselfishness, firmness, and valor, magical image
Speaker 4: a beautiful naked woman. The divine name and archangel Jehovah Sabbath.
Speaker 4: If I'm saying that right lord of hoatsh the archangel
Speaker 4: is Haniel, whose roller ship is often linked to the
Speaker 4: moon in Venus, and that personifies beauty and love. The
Speaker 4: order of angels the angelic order of Netsalck is the
Speaker 4: elo hymn. Formative powers or archetypal ideas. The planet or
Speaker 4: the planet would be Venus, the virtue and the vice
Speaker 4: unselfishness as nets Sock's virtue, and on chastity and lust
Speaker 4: as its vice. Spiritual experience vision of beauty Triumphant symbols
Speaker 4: could be the lamp and the girdle and the rose
Speaker 4: as primary symbols basically feminine. The feminine grace would be
Speaker 4: the rose. Active inspiration would be the lamp, and readiness
Speaker 4: to love it would be the girdle. Tarot correspondences the
Speaker 4: suit of sevens, and the colors at Sluth would be Ambibria, emerald,
Speaker 4: Yez a bright yellow green, and Assi a olive flecked
Speaker 4: with gold. And the psychological spiritual function uh net Sock
Speaker 4: underlies instincts and emotional drives is the realm where free,
Speaker 4: free moving force begins to coalesce into forms of life.
Speaker 4: Net Sock is the seat of creative image, the seat
Speaker 4: of creative imagination and the esthetic principle of nature. Net
Speaker 4: Sock's victory comes from conquering illusions or glamour of superficial beauty,
Speaker 4: integrating the moral and spiritual depth behind appearances.
Speaker 3: And that is what I got for the notes. Any
Speaker 3: of you guys want to go before I start saying
Speaker 3: stuff about It's like I.
Speaker 5: Just had a funny joke. You said you weren't right then,
Speaker 5: but earlier weren't with Stalin, Oh.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: This is what Joshua is famous for, is the dad jokes.
Speaker 4: I just want that was a dad joke for sure.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna actually write down the time to make sure
Speaker 4: from josh there's never not a dad joke like that
Speaker 4: was good. But Stalin, Wow, there's a lot on net
Speaker 4: Sock that's like I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: One thing I will uh I do you know in
Speaker 4: this if you were to read into it more, when
Speaker 4: this goes to sphere eight, there is like a rainbow
Speaker 4: that's supposed to be like you know, going from one
Speaker 4: to the next where it's supposed to be like sending out.
Speaker 4: It's the best way for me to explain it that
Speaker 4: I can remember. So I do even think like all
Speaker 4: the visual colors go at net sock. I guess want
Speaker 4: I want to try to get at here is like
Speaker 4: sometimes you will hear like Lucifer even associated with this
Speaker 4: because of Venus, and I do think you can have
Speaker 4: both in this sphere. And I do think, you know,
Speaker 4: the spheres do have technically both in a sense the
Speaker 4: male and feminine aspects that this I would say is
Speaker 4: like kind of like again, I almost use the light
Speaker 4: bulb example.
Speaker 3: I could see the.
Speaker 4: Vessel and the way it looks would be like Lucifer's
Speaker 4: light shining, and the feminine energy is going to put
Speaker 4: it into whatever vision that makes you fall in love
Speaker 4: with that image what captivates your eyes, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: with this sphere looking at it in this reality, which
Speaker 4: is one of the reasons why I really like this one,
Speaker 4: because there's so many different ways of looking at it.
Speaker 4: But I do think it can get very deep to
Speaker 4: the extent where it's actually kind of like the false
Speaker 4: reality that you're falling in love with in this world.
Speaker 4: It's the beauty of the like what however, like again,
Speaker 4: even lust, I mean, obviously you're gonna lust a person
Speaker 4: who's of that looks appealing to you.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: There's gonna be certain visuals and certain aspects, maybe even
Speaker 4: the sound of the voice, whatever, something in this reality
Speaker 4: that's gonna catch you and get you stuck on that.
Speaker 4: I do think to an extent that is kind of
Speaker 4: like net sock working. I think to a certain extent,
Speaker 4: I would even say, like advice of this would be
Speaker 4: like you know, falling in love with this world completely
Speaker 4: and being you know, shut off from the idea of
Speaker 4: God and all the materialistic things that would go along
Speaker 4: with it. But like that's I do even think it
Speaker 4: has a lot to do with the eyeballs in itself.
Speaker 4: I actually think a part of this that would even
Speaker 4: go back to the eyeballs to where I would even say,
Speaker 4: if we lived in a black and white world, I
Speaker 4: think things would not look as three D as realistic
Speaker 4: to where it would really catch your attention. And it's
Speaker 4: another thing I was kind of going back with with
Speaker 4: the whole rainbow. I even think, like the ideas of
Speaker 4: colors to give depth and perception and to really give
Speaker 4: things a detail is what mind fucks you. It makes
Speaker 4: you full in love with the images and things because
Speaker 4: I always say, in my opinion, I think if you
Speaker 4: want to have a magical experiences, you got to close
Speaker 4: these eyes and show off this world and go somewhere else.
Speaker 4: It's I think opening up your eyes and loving everything
Speaker 4: that you see is the vice. That's a little deep,
Speaker 4: in a little extreme, but that's how I look at it.
Speaker 4: I do think if you're a living in this world
Speaker 4: with your eyes open and you're in love with it,
Speaker 4: you are under some sort of Luciferian control.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: That's that's my opinion.
Speaker 2: But I agree Nick. I think I think the contra
Speaker 2: explains like I think it agrees with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Like when we talk about the images, I want right now,
Speaker 2: I want to let hear what Matt has to say.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that that's a lot about what
Speaker 2: it is. It's there's a higher and a lower force
Speaker 2: immediately there right there, and so that's that is also
Speaker 2: a trap. It's also like a cleep up, like very
Speaker 2: very obviously, like do you get stuck in the matter,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying I'm not a reject matter person.
Speaker 2: But I'm also right, like I know you're not either.
Speaker 2: It's like, but we're saying non extreme. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not about like the full embrace of like materialism, but
Speaker 2: it's also not about necessarily the it's not about worldly
Speaker 2: spiritualism either, and so that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2: Like you see a lot of especially like in Tntra,
Speaker 2: you see a lot of like black magicians using a
Speaker 2: venus as kind of like a very important idea because
Speaker 2: she's the great boon giver, so she can give you
Speaker 2: all the material pleasures. But then who's the planetary intelligence
Speaker 2: if you want to call it that. It's a it's
Speaker 2: a male figure. His name is Shukra, and he rides
Speaker 2: a white horse, and so he's like the king of
Speaker 2: the world, the great sort of pleasure king. That's even
Speaker 2: how he would be described in Tontra like Pema Guelpa,
Speaker 2: like a great a worldly king who sort of brings
Speaker 2: with him like all the all the luciferic pleasures and
Speaker 2: then he can be higher. But when she's here, it's
Speaker 2: like she, yeah, exactly what Nick said. There's even an
Speaker 2: icon where she's looking down at her reflection into the
Speaker 2: into the sort of ocean of gems, that's what it's called.
Speaker 2: So she sees her reflection and it's so beautiful that
Speaker 2: she falls in love with herself, and so she doesn't
Speaker 2: want to ever leave the eternity of the fortress. Like
Speaker 2: the mother of the Fortress. She never wants to go
Speaker 2: because the world is really a reflection of her and
Speaker 2: she's so beautiful. But it's also beautiful and terrible. So
Speaker 2: it's the carnal ground in the garden.
Speaker 3: You know what, I think.
Speaker 4: A good way to even try to explain this, well,
Speaker 4: one way I wanted to say, like the way I'm
Speaker 4: even bringing it to an extreme, like you know you're
Speaker 4: under Lucifer's control. I'm just grabbing at this, don't mean
Speaker 4: take it personal. If politics has you fucked up, that's
Speaker 4: an exact reason. That's an exact example of what I'm
Speaker 4: trying to get it. If whatever's going on out there
Speaker 4: has you fucking going crazy, that's exactly Lucifer's control. You're
Speaker 4: being mindfucked by what the news and the politicians of
Speaker 4: telling you, by the TV and the screen. When it
Speaker 4: comes to I guess, like even you know, it could
Speaker 4: work both ways. I think, depending on how you're looking
Speaker 4: at it. A lot of times I have seen people
Speaker 4: use that. I myself, it's not it's not common, but
Speaker 4: I know other people. I guess probably because of the
Speaker 4: limac background, Hathor would sometimes be associated with net sock
Speaker 4: and people would use Hathor, and I do think that.
Speaker 3: I think most of the feminine.
Speaker 4: Spheres all kind of or connect to each other, or
Speaker 4: it's just like a different, different phase of that. And
Speaker 4: with Hathor, she is associated with having a mirror. Like
Speaker 4: you just said, you said something about a reflection. She
Speaker 4: has a mirror, and she has a system and that
Speaker 4: is sound and sight. I even think if she can
Speaker 4: also be used for Benah, which I think is actually
Speaker 4: very fitting in a sense there because that's kind of
Speaker 4: of like sound in sight. Really it's it's gonna be
Speaker 4: there's gonna be light, and then there's gonna be the
Speaker 4: sound that comes for it before it comes into physical reality.
Speaker 4: And then if you're looking at hath Or down at
Speaker 4: the seventh sphere, that would be like putting it into form.
Speaker 4: Now still like you're still messing with sound in sight,
Speaker 4: but like now it's coming into form, it's coming into
Speaker 4: visual reality, and that's what's making you.
Speaker 3: Fall in love again?
Speaker 4: Like I even said, you know, maybe the woman's voice
Speaker 4: gets you along with the image of what she looks like.
Speaker 4: All those things is what captivates you and gets you
Speaker 4: going and makes you fall in love with something.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 5: I interject real quickly about the half or thing because
Speaker 5: as you were talking and reminded me of how a
Speaker 5: mom might have because systems like a rattle too, So
Speaker 5: I was thinking, well, maybe it's a baby rattle and
Speaker 5: a mirror for a baby because babies are learning those
Speaker 5: very concrete fundamental things at that age, like ego, their
Speaker 5: self awareness, object permanence, and they only see certain colors
Speaker 5: kind of like that tool song, remember black and minor
Speaker 5: ol see and something or other. But anyway, the colors
Speaker 5: come in. It's in the progression as well as we
Speaker 5: get older. But I have other comments to you, but
Speaker 5: I just want to real quick with that.
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I have a well, a couple of things here,
Speaker 6: I'll try to be.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 6: The first one is, uh, well, when you're guys are
Speaker 6: talking about this idea of netsa you know, and the
Speaker 6: senses and like the emotions and so on. Yes, very
Speaker 6: connected to emotions, There's a cool interesting thing about Venus,
Speaker 6: which we usually associate with itsa is that it is
Speaker 6: the only planet that goes retrograde by default, so it
Speaker 6: goes right instead of left gate from our perspective. And
Speaker 6: that's very interesting because then it would mean that all
Speaker 6: the planets are going to our rational brain or left brain,
Speaker 6: and Venus, so letsa, it's the only one going to
Speaker 6: the right. So the natural way, let's say, is we
Speaker 6: first have the mental image, so again the beautiful woman
Speaker 6: or whatever we have it, and then we try to
Speaker 6: rationalize it. We then to try to transform it into
Speaker 6: language and say, oh, yeah, I love her. Whatever Venus
Speaker 6: is saying. Do the opposite, get the language and make
Speaker 6: it into an image, you know, because when you get
Speaker 6: the language out and you just observe the image, then
Speaker 6: you have the silence of Mitza, which is something I
Speaker 6: very much connect when talking about going down the tree.
Speaker 6: So again, just with the example that I made, has
Speaker 6: said the good feelings about it, GeV, the cons the
Speaker 6: discipline you need on different you made sure you have
Speaker 6: the balance, the harmony, the beauty on NETSA. Yes, there's
Speaker 6: the victory. The victory is coming right that it's what excited.
Speaker 6: It's coming into form. It's not quite there yet, but
Speaker 6: it's coming. What usually people do is at that time
Speaker 6: when they're you know, so in love with the idea,
Speaker 6: the emotions are bubbling in some one, they go and
Speaker 6: boast about the thing everywhere. They start talking to people,
Speaker 6: this new project that I'm doing or that I'm going
Speaker 6: to do. Right, they still didn't do it because the
Speaker 6: right So yeah, I gotta do it, I gotta do it.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm going to this trip and one they
Speaker 6: start talking to people. Guess what, now, people not because
Speaker 6: they hate you or whatever, just because by our nature,
Speaker 6: they're going to project all the insecurities, all their problems,
Speaker 6: all their difficulties, all their their trash into your project.
Speaker 6: And now, guess what, most likely it won't happen in
Speaker 6: the best way possible because you just now made it.
Speaker 6: Instead of being a single project, you're not made sure
Speaker 6: that you know, how many, however many people you talked
Speaker 6: is about are also going to participate into manifesting this thing.
Speaker 6: So you know, if you really want the victory that
Speaker 6: is apparent the emotions that you're thinking about it, be
Speaker 6: sident about it, you know, be silent. That's what again,
Speaker 6: Venus is doing is going removing the language and then
Speaker 6: making sure the images are there, to look at the
Speaker 6: images and see for what they really are. Because like
Speaker 6: Nick and Jin we're saying, and I completely agree, what
Speaker 6: we are like being awake quote unquote, is being asleep
Speaker 6: from the real world. So when you close your eyes,
Speaker 6: usually closing the eyes is easier, not you don't necessarily
Speaker 6: need it, but it's usually easier. But when you go
Speaker 6: to sleep is when you actually wake up, the other
Speaker 6: way around. So knowing to differentiate that, knowing which images
Speaker 6: are quote unquote real or not, is what's going to
Speaker 6: make you, you know, navigate reality better. Again not being
Speaker 6: not rejecting, but understanding understanding that sometimes there's a history
Speaker 6: being presented to you and it's just that it's a
Speaker 6: history you don't need to, you know, get stuck on
Speaker 6: it and so on. So another very interesting thing as well.
Speaker 6: And then I'll let you guys go. So when we're
Speaker 6: when we have the image of Jesus on the cross, right,
Speaker 6: we have Jesus on the cross, we have him at
Speaker 6: different his two hands, at his satin gbura. Then we
Speaker 6: have one teeve. We have two tieves, but one of
Speaker 6: them in NTSA. The other will be in hot that
Speaker 6: Teev in NTSA is again the like Nack and Jim
Speaker 6: were saying, all the distractions, the emotions that are distraction
Speaker 6: you in one which is also very interesting because a
Speaker 6: lot of people, if you search for you know that
Speaker 6: I am affirmations these kind of things. The planet Earth
Speaker 6: would be usually the feeling planet. So we are many
Speaker 6: times we are stuck here by feeling and not by
Speaker 6: rational not by logic like we think we are superlargical
Speaker 6: on the most people are really at the feeling step,
Speaker 6: and let's sake stuck on that, on what they're feeling.
Speaker 6: And another thing about this distraction idea is that it
Speaker 6: could be the netsa kliffa, so distractions, you know, the
Speaker 6: is I think it's like the crowds or whatever, the
Speaker 6: crowds would hot or something like that. But it would
Speaker 6: be again that when you have too much of the
Speaker 6: time breaks down becomes a klifa of destruction. So knowing
Speaker 6: how to balance as always it's always knowing how to
Speaker 6: balance stuff. And I think for no, for not is
Speaker 6: it but very very interesting.
Speaker 1: May I add a few comments? Sure, I really like that, Matt.
Speaker 5: I think a good example of the clap of netsc
Speaker 5: might be the phrase resting your laurels. You were successful
Speaker 5: in the past, and so you just hang them up right.
Speaker 5: But then there's some maintenance required to stay number one
Speaker 5: right or to retain that level of proficiency. So I
Speaker 5: thought that was an interesting thought that crossed my mind.
Speaker 5: And also when you said to you know, keep things quiet,
Speaker 5: it reminds me of the thought of counting the cost
Speaker 5: before you begin a project, you know, making sure that
Speaker 5: you have everything set in play, because it does seem
Speaker 5: like the moment you speak something out, you know, the
Speaker 5: universe is like, hahaha, not today.
Speaker 1: But then Jen mentioned something earlier about there was a deity.
Speaker 5: Related to the gift gifting up boons, and his name
Speaker 5: reminded me. I think of the Arabic word for thank you,
Speaker 5: which is shukrauk. It was very similar to that, and
Speaker 5: I thought, oh, so when you receive a boon, you
Speaker 5: think him right. It's kind of what made me think
Speaker 5: of And earlier Nick was talking about the Luciferian aspects
Speaker 5: of you know, these things that we maybe are drawn to,
Speaker 5: like a bug lamp, you know. I was kind of
Speaker 5: thinking of how it might be these things maybe have
Speaker 5: the potential to steal your crown or to steal your victory.
Speaker 5: Maybe they're stumbling blocks to prevent you from getting to
Speaker 5: Ketter or.
Speaker 1: Something like that.
Speaker 5: Right like the somebody in the chat mentioned the woman
Speaker 5: in the red dress, and the matri would be a
Speaker 5: good example. A couple more brief thoughts were that you
Speaker 5: mentioned the relationship maybe to the rainbow. How it kind
Speaker 5: of restarts then, and so if we look at this
Speaker 5: on a yearly kind of cycle, we're moving into the blue,
Speaker 5: which then the red starts again with aries and springs.
Speaker 5: So I think naturally that pink isn't a real color,
Speaker 5: it's a non color. But I think it occurs between
Speaker 5: the two extremes of red and blue. It's like that
Speaker 5: in the Bardo region, you know, in between.
Speaker 1: But also with the.
Speaker 5: The victory associated with this feminine figure reminds me of
Speaker 5: the verse in Genesis where the prophecy is given.
Speaker 1: When they're at the tree.
Speaker 6: No less.
Speaker 1: That the woman's seed will crush the head of the serpent,
Speaker 1: but it will bruise the seed heel.
Speaker 5: And so we look at this right foot crushing the
Speaker 5: head of the surcitus, maybe being the netsack element the
Speaker 5: right pillar. But instead of the arm being the leg
Speaker 5: instead right, and so we got the pisces at the feet,
Speaker 5: So we got a fishy type element here. And so
Speaker 5: I can't help but think of some of the references
Speaker 5: we see sometimes to like the bottom half of the
Speaker 5: person being fish legs or tentacles or something like that.
Speaker 5: So you could almost imagine this verse seeing like a
Speaker 5: Melusine Starbucks figure kind of doing the same thing. And
Speaker 5: then the one final thought I had was in the
Speaker 5: Sumerian context, a way they kind of expressed Netsac I
Speaker 5: think was speaking the end of something at the beginning.
Speaker 5: So it kind of relates to what we were just
Speaker 5: talking about a moment ago, Matt, Like, these deities would
Speaker 5: proclaim what they.
Speaker 1: Were going to do, and it's like, just try and
Speaker 1: stop me, universe, not only to say what I'm gonna do,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna say that it's an end.
Speaker 5: And so that's like a big stamp of authority, you know,
Speaker 5: but to a level that we can't seem to maybe
Speaker 5: appreciate as much. But that's something that these deities would
Speaker 5: do on occasion, would be like to declare the ending
Speaker 5: at the beginning, which is what exactly this prophecy from
Speaker 5: Genesis is kind of referring to it's something that's declaring
Speaker 5: like the.
Speaker 1: End at the beginning. So thank you for letting me
Speaker 1: weave on that.
Speaker 2: Let me just jump off something Joshua just said about, Oh,
Speaker 2: the Sukra, So Shukra used to give the boon of immortality.
Speaker 2: That used to be like the quality of Venus was
Speaker 2: to give the power of immortality, and so everybody would
Speaker 2: pray to Venus the planetary intelligence Sukra or the boon
Speaker 2: of immortality, so you would never die because it is
Speaker 2: eternity in and of itself, right, So, and then the
Speaker 2: other gods were like, you can't do this because you're
Speaker 2: disrupting like the karmac cycles. I'm Sora, and this is
Speaker 2: like important for like the purification of the cell or
Speaker 2: whatever that is. And so yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: There's something and Venus moves counterclockwise. Someone in the chat
Speaker 2: mentioned this, and then Matt responded to them, and like,
Speaker 2: the one thing I disagree with what they said is
Speaker 2: that they said that Uranus is closer to Hopema. I
Speaker 2: don't disagree in some you guys and some AONs that
Speaker 2: that is true. I personally think that Uranus was closest
Speaker 2: to cather in this aon. That's just my perspective, but
Speaker 2: that is more how I see it. And Uranus is
Speaker 2: really interestingly pink and turquoise when they show it. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it is. I'm saying that when it appears
Speaker 2: from NASA or whatever, the Space Stagency, they show it
Speaker 2: as having a high quality of pink or a pink
Speaker 2: ray at least in it. So I think that that
Speaker 2: can also you can also say that that's an allegory
Speaker 2: to maybe something that they understand or that we should understand,
Speaker 2: or or something that you see, because I if you've
Speaker 2: had sephardic experiences, these are things that you actually can see.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying the planets themselves, but ideas colors of course, densities,
Speaker 2: Like when you look at planetary densities like they are
Speaker 2: a sphere, they're often like they'll say, like gas, liquid ice.
Speaker 2: So it's all the alchemical transmutations, right, So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of alchemy in what a planet is, and it's
Speaker 2: an aggregation, it's all together, it's formed into a full density.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot you can actually understand from like
Speaker 2: looking at that those ideas of the planets. But I
Speaker 2: so I'm just saying it's more like Heather. But I
Speaker 2: have to agree with what Matt said. He said it
Speaker 2: we rotate. It's not against everything. That's the there's certain
Speaker 2: ideas of the Uranian thinking and psych has to be
Speaker 2: sort of contraindicatory to everything that came before. Its complete reversal,
Speaker 2: a complete transgression. But actually, like what Matt said, it's
Speaker 2: very subtle. It's actually not it's actually breaking up the
Speaker 2: things that came before breaking up. That doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: it's a total disruption of the past, but you're kind
Speaker 2: of throwing everything into back into flux. You're saying, actually,
Speaker 2: we can rethink of these things and remake of the ideas.
Speaker 2: We don't have to stay stuck in those Saturnian sort
Speaker 2: of like I am God, I am myself, not that saturn.
Speaker 2: It's like that, but people tend to think of it
Speaker 2: like that. It's really more of a solar thing, or
Speaker 2: the more tifferatic thing to sort of like relate yourself
Speaker 2: as the king of the whole world. But obviously there's
Speaker 2: a tiffer It connects to all of them, so that's
Speaker 2: also really important, right, And tiferate is also the crossing
Speaker 2: point for netsoc to have those to have a relationship
Speaker 2: with Bena. So right, so it's like a that's also
Speaker 2: in nexus for those like two things to interact. So
Speaker 2: of course, like a king must have his castle, his
Speaker 2: fortress and he and to have it stands Like I say,
Speaker 2: if he wanted to stand like your kingdom should stand
Speaker 2: a thousand years, So that would be a quality of
Speaker 2: netsalc as well. But then the king him self might
Speaker 2: not be at nuts doctor king might himself be at
Speaker 2: Tiffert or higher. So just some ideas I have iconography,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to you know, disrupt people's flow.
Speaker 2: I just want to say that from Joshua.
Speaker 6: One thing that I reminded as well. I think Joshua
Speaker 6: brought up the idea of you know, speaking when we
Speaker 6: were talking about different about saying like oh you're you
Speaker 6: look beautiful and so on. So this kind of what
Speaker 6: you're saying kind of shows from which sphere you're operating through, right,
Speaker 6: And I completely agree if if you're someone which constantly
Speaker 6: says like, oh, you know, things of love, but also
Speaker 6: of beauty, like somebody which is constantly saying, oh this
Speaker 6: is super beautiful. Oh, you're pretty and swan talking about
Speaker 6: esthetics also a little bit of ethics, because you know Tiffer,
Speaker 6: it is kind of trying to balance things out, make
Speaker 6: things right and so on. You will be talking from
Speaker 6: tiffered and then from that's not it would be more
Speaker 6: about the feelings and emotions. Right, So if you are
Speaker 6: constantly talking about pay attention to this. A lot of
Speaker 6: people will say I think many times, which is more hot,
Speaker 6: And a lot of people will say I feel a
Speaker 6: lot of times, which is more in that SA, So
Speaker 6: you can attention to say, okay, they're more like this
Speaker 6: and like that, or if they always bring up emotional
Speaker 6: like relationship things and so on, again more related to
Speaker 6: working through that, which is a very interesting thing to
Speaker 6: see if you can pay attention because not only makes
Speaker 6: you be present, right because you have to pay attention,
Speaker 6: but then you see, okay, they're operating from that. That's fear.
Speaker 6: That's interesting.
Speaker 3: Matt.
Speaker 2: Are you saying something about your elder brother here, I'm saying, yes,
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 6: I use a lot of I think for example, and
Speaker 6: then I noticed it and like I use other expences.
Speaker 6: I know, you know it other time.
Speaker 2: No, I totally agree with that. There's all there's you know,
Speaker 2: there's it's the ysotic nuts are connection. It really gets
Speaker 2: you stuck in your feelings and you know it's rough
Speaker 2: because it's like if you are like I'm a much
Speaker 2: more hod like person. We've discussed this before because Hode
Speaker 2: is part of he said, like both of them go
Speaker 2: really well together.
Speaker 3: So but there's the.
Speaker 2: Problem with that is that you're still a little under
Speaker 2: You're still not quite balanced, like you're not you're not
Speaker 2: really tifferatic. If even if you're just playing those series,
Speaker 2: even though they appear on opposite pillars, you're still not
Speaker 2: quite meeting in synthesis, you're quite actually you're quite out extremes.
Speaker 2: So you will hear me say I think a lot,
Speaker 2: so absolutely I agree with that. I'm a That is
Speaker 2: how I sort of want to articulate the world at least,
Speaker 2: which is a feeling. It's sort of a midway point
Speaker 2: to say I want it's very there's something very venus
Speaker 2: about that as well, or nuts at but I agree,
Speaker 2: and I think that it is being about conscious aware
Speaker 2: and present of like our words, and it's so interesting
Speaker 2: that space came up or like the sound at least,
Speaker 2: because sound is really capturing the five elements in space.
Speaker 2: Space obviously being the fifth element, but you can always
Speaker 2: say that is also the minds, and I think that
Speaker 2: that makes sense for most systems as well. So the
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, Nick, if you want to bring
Speaker 2: up one of the images, I wolves the start at
Speaker 2: the sound thing, because I think it's really interesting. So
Speaker 2: this is not the usual tontriic goddess associated with Venus.
Speaker 2: So let me just say that this is a much
Speaker 2: more I wouldn't say secret, but it's it's more of
Speaker 2: like a gin. It's like a deeper tontric understanding, we'll say.
Speaker 2: So you can see she has very nuts art colors.
Speaker 2: She has the red sorry, because the Mars always keeps
Speaker 2: his eye on Venus, right, he loves Venus so much
Speaker 2: that he keeps his like effulgent flame fixed on her.
Speaker 2: So it's really interesting because on Tuesday nights she is
Speaker 2: appreciated as well as Friday nights, so she is the
Speaker 2: evening star of both Mars and Venus. Interestingly, and her
Speaker 2: head we were talking about like being transfixed into the
Speaker 2: luciferic sort of emanation of light, well, her head is
Speaker 2: a bore, So a bore represents ignorance, so she knows
Speaker 2: what she is and she understands, and so does the
Speaker 2: at a higher level, the apasaca or the person practicing
Speaker 2: the sadna, they will also understand. She's really truly the
Speaker 2: goddess of ignorance, meaning that once you come into understanding
Speaker 2: again that nutsuck banah sort of interaction. Once that happens,
Speaker 2: you lose the sin of ignorance. The sin of ignorance
Speaker 2: is not the foundational kind of sin, but it is
Speaker 2: an important one to recognize what the world really is.
Speaker 2: And so in Tatra we would say it's the dualism
Speaker 2: of the world, viewing the world strictly material or strictly spiritual.
Speaker 2: It's not the it's not about synthesis. But then you'll
Speaker 2: notice she has the green behind her. So this is
Speaker 2: a really interesting goddess because in many ways she can
Speaker 2: be said this is not always true, but she can
Speaker 2: be said to be the emanation of all the tikinis
Speaker 2: or all the yoghinis. But she's the specific expression in sound,
Speaker 2: meaning she's not trapped in light. Because one thing about
Speaker 2: the bores squeal or scream is that it's said to
Speaker 2: be able to penetrate matter and let the sort of
Speaker 2: hidden light in it come out. So that's her power.
Speaker 2: This is called voxcity. It's the very powerful accomplished sound.
Speaker 2: So it's all the five elements disaggregated and then projected
Speaker 2: back down into space. Sorry, that's all I had for
Speaker 2: that one, Nick, but if you want to do the
Speaker 2: other two, we can. So this goes along with exactly
Speaker 2: what Nick said. So this is actually the same goddess,
Speaker 2: I know, really interesting, right, she's sitting on the lion
Speaker 2: or the dais, it can be both in the other image,
Speaker 2: but in this one she's the dancing girl. But she's
Speaker 2: not the dancing girl. She's the boreheaded mother, so she
Speaker 2: is a mother, so it's very specific. So it is
Speaker 2: interesting because this is her when she's able to climb
Speaker 2: through the tree if you want to call it that,
Speaker 2: like the boar who climbs through matter, the light who
Speaker 2: perceives and penetrates all matter with sound, so you can
Speaker 2: see it's like and she's always associated with the downward
Speaker 2: pointed pentacle because it's like the light coming down into matter,
Speaker 2: or you could even say it's the water of Hesed
Speaker 2: coming down into ice because Sukra obviously is his planetary
Speaker 2: stone is a diamond. So that's one thing. Even Nick
Speaker 2: said that like there's an element of venus or nuts
Speaker 2: all that represents all the colors. It's very prismatic. And
Speaker 2: Shukra's color is actually even considered to be gold, but
Speaker 2: it's not true gold. It's kind of like the material gold,
Speaker 2: which is they often warn't about in alchemy text, like
Speaker 2: you don't get transfixed on material gold. The whole point
Speaker 2: is spiritual gold. So that's another interesting thing because she's
Speaker 2: depicted as red, and if you understand red and a
Speaker 2: tontric color scheme, red is actually post gunossek, which means
Speaker 2: it's post quality, so it's actually transcended the golden level.
Speaker 2: It's like what they would call like the robido, but
Speaker 2: the robido is like primary because it's really not robido.
Speaker 2: It's really the sort of you can say it's a
Speaker 2: life blood, like very Venetian like there's a like kind
Speaker 2: of the life blood coming into coming up into higher form.
Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm thinking of robido as you were saying that.
Speaker 2: So this is again to go along with what everybody said.
Speaker 2: It's like the this is obviously it is a ton
Speaker 2: tric depiction. And you can even see she's holding a
Speaker 2: bout and arrow again meaning the eclipse, again referring to
Speaker 2: the dragon whose head begins at nuts sock, so she
Speaker 2: actually can clear nuts sock, and so did the Also
Speaker 2: the goddess with the boar's head can also clear rawho
Speaker 2: excuse me, rawho, not mas rawho, but this one has.
Speaker 2: She is considered to be the mother of the Fortress.
Speaker 2: Not even is what her name means, Chandy, it means
Speaker 2: a durga excuse mega, means the fortress. So just almost
Speaker 2: so identical the nuts SoC and you can see she's
Speaker 2: the emanation in light of these uh. I think there
Speaker 2: are ten images, yes, ten ten goddesses in this image
Speaker 2: that are emanations of time and space, but light taking
Speaker 2: form in time and space, so that's kind of how
Speaker 2: you can think of it. So they're all her, but
Speaker 2: she's not even really her, whereas the other one with
Speaker 2: the boar's head she knows who she is. She's like
Speaker 2: in the fullness of her wisdom. She's a composite wisdom.
Speaker 2: It's not in her fullness, it's still her in the
Speaker 2: material world. So there are these kinds of gnostic and
Speaker 2: crypto gnostic, if you want to call that ideas For
Speaker 2: people who are interested in more Western ideas of narcissism, yes,
Speaker 2: definitely the Central Asian religions Tantra, Buddhism, even as some
Speaker 2: kinds of Hinduism, Jainism, Daoism, there are very gnostic ideas.
Speaker 2: It just depends on your flavor, like are you antibody
Speaker 2: nacissism or are you like more in the middle, more toperatic.
Speaker 2: So I think that's also what this image is saying, like, yes,
Speaker 2: she has a illuminant quality saying that, yes, if you
Speaker 2: understand the deeper contrack layer, you actually can go higher,
Speaker 2: you can actually disaggregate. But if you're just a normy person,
Speaker 2: maybe you just worship the primary one. And then for
Speaker 2: some people that's going to be where they go. They
Speaker 2: cannot they're not able to sort of go higher. And
Speaker 2: that's okay and sort of something I've had to reconcile
Speaker 2: when speaking to other people about these more metaphysical topics
Speaker 2: is that not everybody's gonna fully understand what you're saying
Speaker 2: and what you mean, so you have to relay it
Speaker 2: in a way that's not a basal but is base
Speaker 2: enough that they can actually gain a seed, and even
Speaker 2: if they don't, they can sort of take of them
Speaker 2: and the idea and be like, Okay, this is something
Speaker 2: that I can do to sort of remedy both astrological
Speaker 2: and perhaps personal affliction.
Speaker 6: You sir, something I can bring up here, as you say,
Speaker 6: And I got reminded. So there's a lot of Well,
Speaker 6: first of all, you can be initiated into any of
Speaker 6: the planets, right, but usually it seems like then Zenus
Speaker 6: is a pretty popular one. Let's say you have like
Speaker 6: or fake initiations you have in Egypt, you have a
Speaker 6: lot of delusion initiations, and so and so on. But
Speaker 6: what then I got reminded is the idea that when
Speaker 6: people say the morning star, right, like even Nick was
Speaker 6: talking about a lucer, and then I just reminded me
Speaker 6: as well. So people say, oh, the morning star, and
Speaker 6: then most people, because they read in a book or
Speaker 6: they read somewhere, they'll say, oh, it's it's Venus. Oh yeah,
Speaker 6: but think about it, are what is the star of
Speaker 6: the morning, what makes the day be the day? The
Speaker 6: brightest star that we can see, it's literally the sun.
Speaker 6: It's different. It is a star First of all, it's
Speaker 6: not a planet, and it is the price. It is
Speaker 6: the one that illuminates everything. Sure, if you go see Wikipedia,
Speaker 6: they're going to say, oh, yeah, but because you saw
Speaker 6: it and so on, it's whatever. First of all, Wikipedia
Speaker 6: is not an initiation like documentation or whatever. It's just
Speaker 6: whatever people write there, right, But if you think about
Speaker 6: it this way, then again connects with this idea that
Speaker 6: it's not that they can be interchanged, but they have
Speaker 6: a pretty good relationship, the Sun and Venus. So again
Speaker 6: different and netsa all these correlations that we're talking about
Speaker 6: the colors, how some people will sometimes change one with
Speaker 6: the other, or how in Tiffer that we are talking
Speaker 6: about the beauty, but then inn'sa were also talking about Venus,
Speaker 6: which is also kind of beauty, like Hephrodye, these kind
Speaker 6: of things. So there's this kind of mix and match
Speaker 6: between the two, which is well, not that crazy if
Speaker 6: you think about it. All the spheres kind of contain
Speaker 6: the whole three inside of them, and so one and
Speaker 6: Tiffer than Venus are quite close. So that's a very
Speaker 6: interesting thing to pay attention as well. And one last thing,
Speaker 6: the path we're going to get into the next time,
Speaker 6: which is hot. But the path between it'sa and hot,
Speaker 6: at least in the way that I use is it
Speaker 6: would be the star, which, again they're interesting. The Venusian
Speaker 6: initiation would be understanding your start, like what would make
Speaker 6: you become a star. The Greek stories, zoos would create
Speaker 6: stars and constellations for the worthy, right, so for for
Speaker 6: an animal or for a hero, like you have a
Speaker 6: lot of constellations about you know, al Debaran and Bursles
Speaker 6: and whatever, because those guys were worthy of becoming a star, right,
Speaker 6: So what makes you then worthy of becoming one? What
Speaker 6: is your the same quote unquote purpose here. That's the
Speaker 6: one of the true Venusian initiations, which is something to
Speaker 6: you know, to ponder, to think about.
Speaker 2: I think that was so interesting, everything that you said,
Speaker 2: Matt and I had a point, but now I've forgotten it.
Speaker 2: But the yeah, the relationship between Tifferent and Natsaka is
Speaker 2: extremely important. And you can even say, and we talked
Speaker 2: about this with Mario on the episode. I don't know
Speaker 2: if Joshuasara, I can't remember. I'm sorry, josh but the
Speaker 2: I'm sure you have spoken to Mario about this yourself.
Speaker 2: But there's an element of Venus where at the mid
Speaker 2: point of the day at noon. Hey, Sarah, one of
Speaker 2: my favorite people. Venus appears at the apex at noon.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of the demarcation. This is just a
Speaker 2: vidic idea of vitic astrology idea, but it is interesting
Speaker 2: that it kind of demarcates that sort of again, that
Speaker 2: sort of you know, the way the cycle works, because
Speaker 2: it's very much tied into seasonality. Oh, this is what
Speaker 2: I was going to say. So you were talking about beauty, Matt,
Speaker 2: So this is how I've always distinguished them. And this
Speaker 2: might not be everybody's flavor, but I think I think
Speaker 2: it's I can make a strong case for it. Is
Speaker 2: that the beauty at Netsalk is natural beauty. So it's
Speaker 2: the beauty of the gardens, beauty of the natural world
Speaker 2: as it is, and the beauty at Tiffer it is
Speaker 2: actually the synthetic beauty, not necessarily negative. I know people
Speaker 2: have very negative ideas of that word, but this is
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about, like I'm trying art and architecture
Speaker 2: and the higher order thinking. Now, those things, of course
Speaker 2: can become clipothic, can become institutionally decayed. They're subject to
Speaker 2: the same forces that we are. So beauty is subject
Speaker 2: to the same forces that we are of time. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's also a really important suffer for higher creation. It
Speaker 2: can be if you do if you do it on
Speaker 2: like more of a mass civilizational scale, it's not so
Speaker 2: much the independent artist. It can be, but there's an
Speaker 2: element of it that's much more rooted in kind of
Speaker 2: the world of man. That kind of beauty. It's high beauty.
Speaker 2: But it's like if you go to the Louver, that's
Speaker 2: very you know, I know that's not the only one.
Speaker 2: And I know Matt just visited the Tower of Pisa
Speaker 2: and he didn't find it. I don't want to speak
Speaker 2: for him, but he didn't find it very He was underwhelmed,
Speaker 2: we'll say. And that's but that's also like an element
Speaker 2: like people project their ideas of what beauty is, what
Speaker 2: higher order thinking is, and so through sort of time,
Speaker 2: I guess, is that we look at those things and
Speaker 2: we say, actually, not that impressive, Actually I can build
Speaker 2: something better, or actually my ideas are actually maybe let's
Speaker 2: trust them, let's prove them in the world, rather than
Speaker 2: say like, oh, we need to be fixed, like the
Speaker 2: Tower of Pisa, is it, like that's it like that's
Speaker 2: the you know, seventh wonder of the Western world, and
Speaker 2: that's as high as we can go. But I don't
Speaker 2: personally believe that. I don't think that believes either. I
Speaker 2: don't think any of us do.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the piece of tower is very overrated, to be honest,
Speaker 6: just full of course, what.
Speaker 3: Uh was there anything else that any of whose wanted
Speaker 3: to add? Netswick? There's a lot actually.
Speaker 5: I would just add that, like, you know, victory in
Speaker 5: all of its different forms, you know, whether it's the
Speaker 5: three people standing at the victory podium, bronze, silver, gold,
Speaker 5: the Nike emblem, you know, all that stuff kind of
Speaker 5: makes you think of victory, you know.
Speaker 6: And so.
Speaker 5: Just kind of wanted a reference earlier when I said
Speaker 5: rest your laurels. You know, they would give the victors
Speaker 5: a crown of laurels. And in the Bible there's distinctions
Speaker 5: made between a victor's crown who wins the race, as
Speaker 5: it's referred to a lot of times, your labor in
Speaker 5: the world. Then there's also the crown of authority, you know,
Speaker 5: So there's Roman crowns of different types too that are
Speaker 5: kind of given depending on you know, what the.
Speaker 1: Distinction was.
Speaker 5: But I just wanted to mention that victory is kind
Speaker 5: of a nuanced term and the crown often gives you
Speaker 5: a reference to what the victory is.
Speaker 2: That was great, Josh, I have to say, just because
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, there can be victory at Nutsock, Like
Speaker 2: obviously that is part of one of the meanings of
Speaker 2: that word. So it absolutely like the crown can be
Speaker 2: reflected in nets SoC just like netsalc can be described
Speaker 2: as an ocean of gems if you want to call
Speaker 2: that from tantric nostrology. But it is it the actual crown,
Speaker 2: while in higher tantre you would say that the crown
Speaker 2: is adamantine or like mirror like it's crystalline almost it
Speaker 2: actually it reflects ultimate reality, which is empty and the
Speaker 2: crown that would appear at Venus or nets Sock. It's
Speaker 2: like the queen of the world, but it's not. It's
Speaker 2: not inherently the queen of the higher order. It's just
Speaker 2: she's very worldly, but she doesn't necessarily think of herself
Speaker 2: as worldly, like she's not. You know, she has the choice.
Speaker 2: She can be the great Queen Mother, or she can
Speaker 2: be the you know, the evil crimson woman or the
Speaker 2: scarlet woman.
Speaker 6: One interesting thing since we're talking about the victory. Victory
Speaker 6: if you take the seventh are kind of which could
Speaker 6: be the car depending on how you do it. It
Speaker 6: also talks about victory and triumph, and it is the seventh.
Speaker 6: So again, let's how being the seventh seventh are kind
Speaker 6: of being the victory. So you kind of have this
Speaker 6: to wait there talking about the same thing.
Speaker 2: Well, since you brought up numbers, I'll just add really
Speaker 2: quickly that the goddess who is associated with Netsoc or Venus,
Speaker 2: not the two I showed actually, but the Maha Lakshmi
Speaker 2: or Kamalatmika, so the golden lotus or the gilded Lotus.
Speaker 2: He is actually number ten in the tntras. So it
Speaker 2: kind of is interesting because it doesn't contradict the seventh. Right,
Speaker 2: there's something really interesting about that doesn't contradict at all.
Speaker 2: It's actually maybe you could say that tntras follows where
Speaker 2: the light falls and then that's their kind of like
Speaker 2: ten and one point, whereas the Jewis Kabbalis prefer like
Speaker 2: the Malkouth, like the man, like where the light falls
Speaker 2: inside of us, but Tantra is more interested in like
Speaker 2: what maya is or what the illusion is, so that's
Speaker 2: why they place her in that sort of way. But
Speaker 2: then it also makes sense to be the seven because
Speaker 2: as we've talked about many times, like there are the
Speaker 2: sets of star goddesses which always number seven, eight or nine.
Speaker 2: So you see this like replicated over and over and
Speaker 2: over in contra like different goddesses, different groupings, but they're
Speaker 2: all related to this primordial set of seven, eight and nine,
Speaker 2: just like hod yesoda. And that's all. So it's speaking
Speaker 2: to something, in my opinion, deeper and more profound. And
Speaker 2: it's again, it's all about Matt said this really well,
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry Matt, but yeah, it's all about perspective,
Speaker 2: vantage point, viewpoint, how you're perceiving it. Your feelings really
Speaker 2: matter when you're climbing the tree. If you are full
Speaker 2: of fear, full of aggregation. That doesn't mean you have
Speaker 2: to be like full right hand path like perfect Saint.
Speaker 2: It doesn't, But it doesn't mean like go be like
Speaker 2: full left hand path like black Magician. Like No, there
Speaker 2: is actually like a good synthesis of the two where
Speaker 2: you don't have to be in extremity.
Speaker 1: Hey, Nick, can you.
Speaker 5: Give us a good look at your shirt? Can you Matt,
Speaker 5: can you tell us which pip cards are own his shirt?
Speaker 1: We got King of was that Hearts and Diamonds? And
Speaker 1: what's what's your suits and cards there?
Speaker 3: Nick, that's King of Heart, King of Diamonds, and the
Speaker 3: Ace of Spades.
Speaker 1: That's a one of swords, King of Cups and Queen
Speaker 1: of Pentacles. I just thought it was strange they were
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff.
Speaker 6: So we can read it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like like the King's other it's very gentous, like
Speaker 3: the way they're both looking different directions do.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I, on the other hand, have one called trip King.
Speaker 1: It's for a royal flushed.
Speaker 2: So I have like a cop with noodles, just small,
Speaker 2: just like exactly where where Matts is.
Speaker 6: Those are very interesting. Last time we had the colors
Speaker 6: for the.
Speaker 4: Oh that was funny, remember that. Yeah, to Let's try
Speaker 4: to set it up again for the next one. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think, uh yeah again. We said a lot, even
Speaker 4: though even Donald said there was a lot of information
Speaker 4: in this one.
Speaker 3: Thank you both. There was a lot of shit. I
Speaker 3: thought about it kind of got stuck at my own
Speaker 3: ideas and ship so I was paying attention. I just
Speaker 3: was thinking a lot. I thank you all. That was
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff again. I think everybody in the
Speaker 3: chat too.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people that kind of like threw
Speaker 4: some stuff out there. I appreciate that a little of
Speaker 4: you guys, Uh, plug your stuff again real quick, the branch.
Speaker 3: Let everybody know what's something. They of fundy stuff.
Speaker 1: I know, as she said, thinking a lot instead of
Speaker 1: feeling a lot. That's just funny.
Speaker 5: But yeah, check us out on New Friday Nights, Friday
Speaker 5: Night Gnostic Mass. We've been doing those frequently and they're
Speaker 5: a lot of fun. Also, check out Threshold Scenes on
Speaker 5: Spotify and Apple. There's a lot of really great episodes
Speaker 5: dropping here lately. Thanks so much for sharing time and space.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you man. I always appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 3: Sure for a back please.
Speaker 6: Yes again. Like Joshua was talking about, we propheticized at
Speaker 6: the beginning that would be great, and it was great.
Speaker 6: So make sure to follow each and every one of us.
Speaker 6: If you like the conversation. You have the equip Rejects,
Speaker 6: you have Threshold Saints, you have the Joshua, the Branch.
Speaker 6: You have myself as well at Medmore nineteen on any
Speaker 6: platform you can find. And if I'm not there, just
Speaker 6: tell me I'll try to be there as well. There's
Speaker 6: my website, just commented on the chat the way it's written,
Speaker 6: Cabala dot com. There's also the Grade Lodge, which we
Speaker 6: do again every Fridays, which is very interesting. I'm going
Speaker 6: to put also the website there, which we are now
Speaker 6: doing on YouTube as well. We are basically trying to
Speaker 6: catch up up until we can do it live on
Speaker 6: both ways, so on ACCE and YouTube at the same time,
Speaker 6: but for now you're just catching up and including all
Speaker 6: the recordings there. And yeah, that was very much awesome.
Speaker 6: Thanks a lot for calling, and thanks guys for the
Speaker 6: space and time here.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate everything you bring.
Speaker 4: You have a lot of a lot of stuff to
Speaker 4: say about the Kabbala and Ninja Lodge Master.
Speaker 3: I think great Lodge Master.
Speaker 2: I like to think of myself as a bit of
Speaker 2: a horizontalists and so everybody is of their own will.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I have to sometimes make boss decisions. But
Speaker 2: as you can relate to as you can relate to neck.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I I really appreciate it. It's been incredible
Speaker 2: to do a series. Uh you know, like I I
Speaker 2: think the world of Matt and Joshua, and I'm really
Speaker 2: thankful to have met them and Solar as well. Like
Speaker 2: that is how we started The Gray Lodge was in Kabbala,
Speaker 2: like discussing kabala, like very intermediate, like much more. I
Speaker 2: don't know I was we were. I was trying to
Speaker 2: do something different.
Speaker 1: I was like with like, you know, like.
Speaker 2: Fuck all this stuff about conspiracy theory, like let's talk
Speaker 2: about like serious like meta mythology using the Kabala and
Speaker 2: let's like just get into it. And so I was
Speaker 2: really lucky that I had three instant brothers that sort
Speaker 2: of came up at this similar time. So yeah, so
Speaker 2: you can follow us at the True Gray Lodge, of course,
Speaker 2: with a v myself at Threshold Saints uh at on
Speaker 2: ex Twitter as well as ig. Yes, my account's still
Speaker 2: there at Woucomrie Born.
Speaker 6: You can follow it.
Speaker 2: It's just uh we're just I'm just quiet right now,
Speaker 2: and that's always an option. But yes, Threshold Saints, thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Joshua, who has an episode two episodes
Speaker 2: coming up, I didn't forget, and also Matt has an
Speaker 2: episode with Dapper Zen on the Music of the Spheres
Speaker 2: the Music of the Suffra. I didn't title it that,
Speaker 2: but the title is really good, so I hope they
Speaker 2: they'll appreciate it when it drops. That will happen next week,
Speaker 2: So thank you so much. Yeah, Crystal Drinkwater Domino our exxx,
Speaker 2: her episode just dropped today and then Thursday. Kelby Losak,
Speaker 2: who is the you know outlet favorite right now and
Speaker 2: he's his new books coming out Texas Tea in a month,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of like a perfect time for his
Speaker 2: episode to also drop. So thank you guys so much
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Everyone from the lodge who came into the chat,
Speaker 2: Nick's audience who always shows like us a great love
Speaker 2: and respect to appreciate it. And Nick himself of course
Speaker 2: for inviting us on and we letting us, you know,
Speaker 2: promote ourselves and do this. And yeah, check out our
Speaker 2: YouTube because they will start being YouTube lives eventually in
Speaker 2: a few weeks anyway, and so I'm really excited for that.
Speaker 2: And yes, the great ledge we are just moving forward
Speaker 2: into the speculative future. So thank you guys so much
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys really should take your shit to youtubelobs man,
Speaker 3: you guys do great on Twitter spaces. It'll be awesome.
Speaker 3: To see you guys like go live on like another platform.
Speaker 3: I really hope that works out. I look forward to that.
Speaker 3: That's awesome again. Thank you for the branch, Matt Jin.
Speaker 3: It was really a pleasure to work with you guys again,
Speaker 3: and I look forward to the next one. Again. Thank
Speaker 3: you everybody in the chat. I appreciate it. That's what's up.
Speaker 4: I saw a lot of good comments in there and
Speaker 4: a lot of the same faces, and they were here
Speaker 4: from the beginning to the end. I appreciate it again,
Speaker 4: and that's why we go live and until the next one.
Speaker 4: Everybody be well later.