WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.039 Oh he is, folks, it's show Died. 2 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:11.279 People pay good money to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:14.720 go out to a theater. They want clod sodas, hot popcorn, 4 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:15.960 and no monsters. 5 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.199 In the protection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:42.399 No nos Ma pier to me, said she. 7 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:44.000 If he lo Pergi now. 8 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:46.840 Hell not, be as sure. 9 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.359 This is all you see. 10 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:53.000 No bla, it's. 11 00:00:55.079 --> 00:01:39.760 Cigar, said Todel. Do sometimes stuff. 12 00:01:46.079 --> 00:02:10.520 Yes, crevel loyalty, that's a service. 13 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:17.599 I fei. 14 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:34.800 H en. 15 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:43.759 Done. 16 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:57.639 Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. Mike White 17 00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:59.759 joined me once again. It's mister Matthew asked. 18 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.800 For gear, your obedient servants. 19 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:02.039 Mine. 20 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.919 Also back in the booth is Miss Jessica Shires. Hello, 21 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.400 we are kicking off a very special month which is 22 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.240 both a month of Patreon requests and also our Shoctober selections. 23 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.439 This one comes to us from our very own Jessica Shires. 24 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:22.199 Also known as Legend of doom House. Melpertwee is a 25 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:27.000 Gothic horror film starring Matthew Career as Yan, a sailor 26 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.079 back at his home port where he visits the estate 27 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.319 known as Melpertwee, where he encounters a group of colorful kooks, 28 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:39.399 including the formidable Cassavius played by Orson Wells. We will 29 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:41.920 be spoiling Melburt Twee as we go along, including the 30 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:44.399 big twist at the end of the film. So if 31 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.879 you don't want anything ruined, turn off the podcast and 32 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.319 come back after you have seen it. We will still 33 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.519 be here. So, Jessica, as the person who requested this one, 34 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.079 when was the first time you saw Malpertwee and what 35 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:55.680 did you think? 36 00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.040 So the first time I saw it was probably when 37 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.680 the Barrel DVD came out, which is I think the 38 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:06.079 only American home video release to date of the film. 39 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.120 I was a big fan of Daughters of Darkness, huge 40 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.120 fan of that film, and I had heard that Kamel 41 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.160 had done this other film that was had similar lives 42 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.839 along the fantastique and the descriptions of it founded really great, 43 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.079 so I thought I would seek it out. Watched it, 44 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.240 didn't entirely make sense of it the first time. Not surprisingly, 45 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:30.399 I was very intrigued by it, and I actually it 46 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:32.360 was quite I've seen the years before. I watched it 47 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.800 for a second time, and really and at that point 48 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.920 I had read the novel. I was very interested in 49 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.680 Belgian art, Belgian literature, and I was able to put 50 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.920 all the pieces together and it meant a lot more 51 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:48.600 to me and I was able to understand it such 52 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.399 as it is a bit more of the second viewing. 53 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:53.959 I'm also a big fan of Silvia Bartine, who has 54 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.040 a small role in the film, so I was really 55 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.360 intrigued initially to see it because of her and her 56 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.879 role in it, albeit small. Though not disappointed. I just 57 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.399 wanted to mention that and being a fan of Daughters 58 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:08.519 of Darkness. Last year I did a pilgrimage to the 59 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.519 hotel where Daughters of Darkness was shot in Austin, Belgium, 60 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.759 and there is a star for Kumal on the sidewalk 61 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.199 outside the hotel where some of the exteriors were shot. 62 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.920 There's like a star for in honor of Kummel's career. 63 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.879 Oh, very fantastic. Yeah nice And Matthew, how about yourself. 64 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.399 This was a film that was run on Australian TV 65 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.680 in the late nineteen nineties and I remember the Orson 66 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.800 Wells appearance was what attracts me to I think taping 67 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.680 this ilm on television. But it was one of those 68 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.720 movies that I never really properly sat down and watched 69 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.920 from start to finish. It was always I think I 70 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.319 looked at the well scenes and then I left that 71 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.399 on the shelves for a little time, and it took 72 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.160 me actually years to finally get around properly sitting down 73 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.360 and watching the whole thing. I always had a very 74 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:03.959 I very much associated this film with a dreamlike atmosphere, 75 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:08.079 which I think is it really does, and when you've 76 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.800 only seen fragments of it, it seems even more dream 77 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.319 But yeah, now, so coming back to it years later, 78 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.839 I was two years ago, I was putting together a 79 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:21.199 course on traditions of the fantastic and cinema, and I 80 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:24.600 was looking at the French fantastic and this doesn't quite 81 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:27.160 fit into that sense, it's Belgium. But I did come 82 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:31.199 back to this film again, and yeah, so I'm very 83 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:36.399 intrigued by this way, We'll say that, and the Orsowell's 84 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:41.120 appearance is its own kind of separate, fascinating bit of history. 85 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:43.839 But beyond that, the film, I think it's just very 86 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:44.879 fascinating on its own. 87 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.480 I think this was definitely first time watch for me 88 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.160 for this show. So thank you very much, Jessica for 89 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.759 choosing this one. I was really happy seeing it, and 90 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.759 it had been one that I had wanted to see 91 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.639 for a long time. I don't I think I'm making 92 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:02.639 this up, but I'm pretty sure that I have a 93 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.800 friend in Toronto who does a ton of film screenings, 94 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.879 and I believe he has done screenings of it, and 95 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:14.800 he's had various responses to the movie. Some people it's oh, 96 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.279 it's way too slow. Other people just eat this up. 97 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.319 So I had heard about it, heard like, oh, there's 98 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.240 this strange film with Orson Wells in it, and that 99 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.759 kind of was the hook, but not enough to actually 100 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:29.600 make me watch it. And then thank you again Jessica 101 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:33.000 for saying, yeah, let's do this one. Finally sitting down, 102 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.039 I was excited to see both more Wells as well 103 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.879 as another Harrykamel film, and it did not disappoint whatsoever. 104 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:44.360 I had a great time with this. I started with 105 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.639 the shorter version, and we'll definitely talk about the versions 106 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:49.840 of this as we go along, or in the second 107 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:53.000 half of the show, finally caught up with the long version. 108 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.679 It had been long enough in between that I couldn't 109 00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:59.240 be like, oh, for sure, this is new to me, 110 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:02.679 or that's new to me. It all felt of a piece, 111 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.360 It just felt more of it. Unfortunately, the longer version 112 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.679 is all in Flemish and so there is no Orson 113 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:14.039 Wells voice and I think you hear his laugh but 114 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:17.879 that's about it, which is really sad because that's half 115 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.559 well yeah, well, what would you guys say, half of 116 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.919 an Orson Wells performance is the voice because that voice 117 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:25.879 is just like melted butter in your ear. 118 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.799 Oh totally, that's certainly true. But against the vocal performance 119 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.799 is another discussion point too, because at this point in 120 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:40.000 his career, Wells with sometimes taking unusual approaches to his 121 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:44.960 vocal post synchronization, and in fact, there was another film 122 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:49.720 he made around this time, Jesure Island, that was an 123 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.600 extremely unimpressive vocal performance from Warson Wells, to the point 124 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.679 where the distributor of the film in the United States 125 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.600 hired another actor to readub his performance. Clarity that we 126 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:07.120 associate with Wells as a speaker was not always present 127 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.559 in this period of his career. 128 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.000 This movie has just an amazing cast on top of 129 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.879 Wars and Wells. I love that it starts off with 130 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.799 Matthew Carrier as yan Or Jan, but I think it's 131 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:23.960 yan and I like that in the book chapter that 132 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.679 you shared with us, Jessica, he was spelling it ya 133 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.519 n N. I was like, I think it's just j 134 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:32.519 A N. But okay, whatever, He's great. I love Michelle 135 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:36.279 Bukay as did delou him showing up very early in 136 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.320 the movie in his little bowler hat and everything, and 137 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:44.240 then also Danielle Pilon as Matthias. Those two together I 138 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:49.360 think are great. And the Didelu character, I really like him. 139 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.679 Bookay plays him as so many characters are being played 140 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.120 as very impish, but he's very good at being impish. 141 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.600 And it's such a different because I just saw him 142 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.000 a few months ago playing a very uptime boss in 143 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.679 the Francis Weber film La Jouette's the Toy, so definitely 144 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.120 plays it a lot differently than Jackie Gleason would play 145 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:10.879 the same role in the American remake. 146 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.679 Yeah, he was incredibly and I actually just passed away, 147 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:16.879 like just only a few years ago. He lived quite 148 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.919 a long life and age a massive somography and in 149 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.159 this film particularly. I've seen him also in a lot 150 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.639 of very serious European films, but this isn't a serious 151 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:29.840 European film, but he's it's the physical comedy that he 152 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:32.559 brings in this performance is something you so rarely see 153 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.399 from him. He's absolutely hilarious. It doesn't even have to 154 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.759 be speaking, and just like his movements, his body language, 155 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:41.399 his facial expressions are just absolutely hilarious. 156 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.879 And this is such a journey for this character of 157 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:49.360 Jan starting by coming into port in his very smart 158 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:53.320 sailor suit and thinking that he sees his sister and 159 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:57.200 pursuing her. The whole movie starts off with a image 160 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:03.120 of the Jabberwocke from the Lewis poem, and then there's 161 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.480 even a quote from Alice in Wonderland, and I think 162 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.840 there's a couple of lines throughout the movie that make 163 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.399 reference to Alice in Wonderland. So him chasing after this 164 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.840 woman that might be his sister might not. It's so 165 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.639 white rabbit and he goes right down the rabbit hole 166 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.600 into I think this is supposed to be a bordello, 167 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.039 is what I'm guessing. But what a wild space for 168 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.120 him to go into. And then did Alou is the 169 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:31.399 entree into the whole malper twee. I don't want to 170 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.000 say sequence, because the majority of the film takes place 171 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:38.600 in Malpertwee, and it is a fantastical land where we 172 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.679 don't know what the hell's going on for so much 173 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:45.080 of this, and on purpose, it's very surrealistic and just 174 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.440 that this whole space of malbur Twee is like what 175 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.399 six or seven different locations all stitched into one. It 176 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:53.519 just goes on forever. 177 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.399 Yeah, And I feel like that's intentionally so, because I 178 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.240 think Camel really wanted to give you the sense that 179 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.000 you don't know exactly where this is. You also don't 180 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.799 know when this is. It's like vaguely nineteenth century, but 181 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.840 really it isn't specified, didn't specified what city it's in. 182 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:14.200 It's just somewhere in Flanders. So there's this sense that 183 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.159 places are connected in a way that doesn't really make 184 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.600 visual sense, but somehow it all comes together. I think 185 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:23.120 that sort of uncomfortableness is definitely intentional. 186 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.200 It's also the fact that we almost never see the 187 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:29.159 exterior of Malko Tweet. There's a couple of fragmentary shelves 188 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:33.000 of the exterior, but otherwise that lack of we see 189 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:34.799 in the gardens and its own but so you don't 190 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.720 really see the house itself. So that contributes to this 191 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.759 sense of very vague architecture when you're inside the house. 192 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:47.080 And Kamil was doing some interesting things like with the stairway, 193 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.879 and I just was talking about the film Naked and 194 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.799 how important stairways are in that one, and stairways are 195 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.559 definitely very important in this and whenever I see a stairway, 196 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.279 and especially somebody going down a spiraling stairway, I'm just like, 197 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.960 that's probably a descent into madness. And this whole movie 198 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.240 is that. I love what Kameel does where he actually 199 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:12.919 shows you the stairs going down and then takes the 200 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.799 shot and reverses it to show you the stairs going up. 201 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.480 So it just looks like the staircase is infinite, like 202 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.200 you don't know how high it goes up, and you 203 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.720 don't know how high this goes down. And there's a 204 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.240 very prominent shot of him coming down Yan coming down 205 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.399 a stairway and just over and you get this kind 206 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.679 of repetition of him coming down the staircase, and I'm 207 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:37.039 just like, oh, that's really nice. And you get that 208 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.440 and him going through hallways a lot, you get this 209 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.720 like maze like it's almost vertigo like with the way 210 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:49.840 that he's chasing chasing perhaps Nancy. And again this space 211 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.799 of the town that he's in is impossible. And to 212 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.720 your point from earlier, this is in several towns. I 213 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:58.320 think this was Ghent and Bruges, and I'm not sure 214 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.440 if there was a third location. So it's done, thank you, 215 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.240 So Camell just stitching all of this stuff together too, 216 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.480 to make an impossible city for an impossible house. 217 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.480 Yeah, it was funny. I was rewatching the film today 218 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:15.080 and in watching those scenes again, Mapartwee, the house itself 219 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.320 is very much its own character and is alive in 220 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.720 its own way. And to me, I think of the 221 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.720 way the staircase is shrives as like a spine. If 222 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.320 you think of the house as almost like a living being, 223 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:28.960 it's like this sort of central pillar. But it's also 224 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.000 like the nerve center of a swirl. So much of 225 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.080 the action takes place as like going up and downstairs 226 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.759 or so I just saw it as a sort of 227 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.240 spinal call, of kind of metaphor in a way. 228 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.279 I can totally see that, especially when you get up 229 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.879 to the attict. And for me, an attic in a 230 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.440 movie is like the real subconscience, like what's happening in 231 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.600 the brain that the rest of the house isn't aware 232 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.519 of to have that workshop up there, and I'm trying 233 00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:01.000 to remember the character's name, the taxidermist? Is that feel theourette? 234 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:07.639 And what a performance by Charles Johnson's just his laugh 235 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.519 and his little voice that he does, and it sounds 236 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.279 very similar between the English and the Flemish versions. I 237 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.080 love what he's doing and I love that he's just bonkers, 238 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.879 fucking bonkers. If anything, he's the Manhatter of this picture. 239 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:24.480 Yeah, I think it's just to go back to the 240 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.480 actors and the casting for a second. A lot of 241 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:30.080 the sort of lesser known at least to a sort 242 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.080 of English speaking audience of the actors were just like 243 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.200 people knew that from people that Kummel knew from Flemish theater, 244 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.159 Flemish television, things that just wouldn't be known really outside 245 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.480 of Belgium. And they're just like some of these smaller 246 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.759 characters are just like one give wonderful performances and I've 247 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.759 had to go and look them up and know who 248 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.200 is this person? And so I think Kamel really had 249 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.240 a knack for casting. I think both in the sense 250 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.799 of like these grand actors, he casts such as you 251 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.120 know Orson Wells or Del sarig and Daughters of Darkness, 252 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.200 but he also really knew how to fill those smaller parts, 253 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.880 I think, And yeah, I just think that speaks to 254 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.319 how much of an actor's director I think he is. 255 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.359 I think he's aside from maybe some of these big personalities, 256 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.519 he seems to work well with some of the act 257 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.480 of another. That's not entirely true, because there's Danielle we 258 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.960 May and Daughters of Darkness who apparently wasn't treated particularly well. 259 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.119 But I do think he had a special relationship with 260 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.680 his actors and they were able to deliver these really 261 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.839 great performances for him, even for characters who had smaller roles. 262 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.440 He definitely did not like Orson Wells, though he respects 263 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:39.400 Orson Wells, but he really can't say many nice things 264 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.359 about him quite often, especially the challenges that Wells was 265 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.880 throwing up at this point and the whole thing of 266 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.880 I want to wear this fake nos and then Kammell's 267 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:50.119 just thought, I got to come up with the whole 268 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:54.960 lighting scheme Kamel and not say enough nice things about 269 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.200 his director of photography, Jerry Fisher. He talks about him 270 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.559 so much on the audio commentary and just all the 271 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:08.400 inventiveness that he presented and some of the some of 272 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:13.319 the real heart of the film goes to the cinematography 273 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.200 and just some of the things that Kamel was doing around. 274 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.039 I know, he points out that he tries to light 275 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:23.200 Yan if woman would be lit, and then Nancy, Jan's 276 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.200 sister tries to light her as a man would be lit, 277 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.400 and then even gives us like a porthole both behind 278 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.920 Yan and then a I'm trying to remember, oh, the 279 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.759 narwhal tusk for Nancy behind her. So this whole like 280 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:40.720 gender play that he does, which then totally brings to 281 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.920 mind the one character's mother from Daughters of Darkness, which 282 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.839 is obviously a man in drags, which I love that. 283 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.480 I love that You're completely right about the Jerry Fisher 284 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.240 and Kamel's Kamel is I would say in debt to 285 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.519 him for how amazing the film looks. But I think 286 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.880 Kamel acknowledges fully in both the interviews and in the 287 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.559 commentary how much he owes to Fisher and how much 288 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:06.720 he enjoyed working with him, and they seem to have 289 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.000 an amazing collaboration on the film. It's almost like Fisher 290 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.240 co directed it in a way, it just seems like 291 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.920 his involvement and his influence on the film are so 292 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.079 strong that he definitely deserves all the praise that Kummel 293 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.200 gives him. Oh but I was going to say the 294 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.119 lighting and the way that Jan looks. I've seen it 295 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.240 argued in various reviews that Matthew Carrier is not really 296 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:32.319 great in this role. I think Matthew Carrier is a 297 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.039 great actor, and he has some better roles. But really, 298 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.599 I think you can tell he was chosen for his 299 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.039 looks here because he has that absolutely beautiful, angelic look, 300 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:44.240 and he's lit accordingly, and a lot of his shots 301 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.440 remind me a lot of the way men are photographed 302 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.359 in Paint Narcissus or the photographs of Pierre Gille almost 303 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:56.279 can't be like very soft, very beautiful, very feminine. I 304 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.799 just think that's interesting. So Camel seems not afraid to 305 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.519 play around with gender for sure. 306 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.400 I absolutely love what they do in this brothel scene, 307 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.359 and just how speaking of lighting, and then just the 308 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.720 way that the colors pop those giant female forms that 309 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.799 are on either side of the stage and the background 310 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.319 of the stage almost looks like an open mouth to me, 311 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.319 and then you have the singer, and you've got all 312 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.119 of these other women there with these big wigs on, 313 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.519 especially their multi colored wigs like very bright. I just 314 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:35.880 I think it looks so good and just wild with 315 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.640 the female forms, especially you've got the the I guess 316 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.359 they're probably made out of wood, but the women. There's 317 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.720 one who's got her hands over a crotch, but her 318 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.279 boobs are exposed, and then right next to her is 319 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:50.519 one where it's from the back, or a different women 320 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:53.440 from the back with their butt exposed. And just to 321 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:57.759 watch the singer going through this whole setup that they 322 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.119 have with this beautiful place with just again the reds 323 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:05.160 are everywhere and it looks so good. And then you 324 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.680 have just tons and tons of guys dressed in their 325 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.240 sailors outfits, which Jean is a sailor. And then I 326 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.240 love that in the longer version of this, you get 327 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:17.960 those the little kids, and I think it's actually the 328 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.680 same little boy where you see a little boy in 329 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:23.920 a sailor's outfit. And then there's another one who comes 330 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:26.240 out of a storefront and he looks all ragged and 331 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.079 he's got like a tiny tim crutch and he's coming 332 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.279 out I'm just like, are these other versions of Yan? 333 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.519 Is this where he could be or was? Because there's 334 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:38.480 I thought about a twist at the end, but there's 335 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.720 actually a couple twists to this. This probably is all 336 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.240 in Yan's head, So I would not be surprised if 337 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.960 these other little boys in sailor suits are just other 338 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:49.160 incarnations of him. 339 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.839 In the shorter version, you lose the kid on the 340 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.319 crutch asks Yan where is Bacha Luka? Which is the 341 00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.920 same place that Yan was looking for where he was from, 342 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.720 And that's got In the shorter version, I think they 343 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.880 eliminated that kind of keep it living a bit faster. 344 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.799 Yes, I much prefer Melportwee to Legend of Doomhouse, and 345 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.599 especially just as a title, because Legend of doom House 346 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.640 just is that's awful. That feels like something that you 347 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.759 would find in the dollar ben at Sun Coast. 348 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.119 It definitely sounds cheap. 349 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:25.640 So I guess nobody knows how to pronounce Malfa tweet 350 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.799 though until they see the movie outside of Elder Yeah. 351 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:31.880 No, I thought for years that this movie is called 352 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:32.720 mel Purtuis. 353 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:35.480 There's other ways to pronounce it. I'm sure. 354 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.319 I actually had never really realized and the times i'd 355 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:44.839 watched it where that word came from Etymologically obviously, mile 356 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.519 and so bad and house are rooted in there, and 357 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.519 apparently it is from the sixteenth century save and it's 358 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:53.759 where a fox lives. So it's like a fox is 359 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.960 den and Jeel Ray, the writer of the novel upon 360 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.640 which Malpertwee is based, use that as a four for 361 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.799 the house and change the letters a little bit, and 362 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.640 so that's the genesis of the titles. 363 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:09.960 Jeanrey' is a fascinating guy. I was not familiar with 364 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.759 him at all until starting to do the research for this, 365 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:19.160 And Yeah, very interesting career. And I can't say I 366 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:23.680 enjoyed reading the book melper Tweet just because it shifts 367 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.920 on a dime. It really reminded me of something like 368 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.160 the Saragosa Manuscript, where you just don't know, like you're 369 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.119 reading it and you're just like, I have no idea 370 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.799 the next paragraph. We could be in a completely different place, 371 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.359 it could be completely all these surprises are just hiding 372 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.200 around the corner. You can't really predict what's going to 373 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:42.720 happen in this. 374 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.880 Yeah, it's an enormously complex book, even more so than 375 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.640 the film's complex, and it was considered to be unfilmable 376 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.880 right possibly rightly so, and we for those who read 377 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:58.039 the book realized that basically what Kamal does is take 378 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.160 a sort of segment of the book and use that 379 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.559 as the narrative and then make some references to things 380 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.759 that happen outside of that segment of the text. But 381 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:12.880 it's just it's polyphonic the novel like it's multiple narrators, 382 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.720 it's multiple periods and time. It's just like separate stories 383 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.599 that merge onto each other. So I think Kamel's approach 384 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:23.559 in adapting that was in John Ferry, to his credit, 385 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.599 who was the screenwriter, were able to actually make something 386 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:31.880 that was a mostly narrative film out of this unfilmable book. 387 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:35.039 And it's funny. So the book was written in nineteen 388 00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:37.759 forty three, and for those who aren't familiar with genre, 389 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.680 he is a leading figure of the Belgian literary fantastique 390 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:46.240 and he's a lot of people compare this his book 391 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.759 Moper Tweet to the Call of Cthulhu by Lovecraft. I 392 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.799 haven't read that one, to be honest, so I can't 393 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.480 speak to the comparison. But a lot of people see 394 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.480 some similarities in the story there, but it is very 395 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:02.599 much so. Jeanrey was mostly a short story writer. He 396 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.200 wrote detective fiction, but he's very well that he's one 397 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.599 of the most famous twentieth century writers in Belgium, and 398 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:13.839 he does these stories that involved the fantastique. And whereas 399 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.759 it's not he wasn't a fantasy writer per se, because 400 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:21.279 he worked and again to define what the fantastique is. 401 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.960 It's it's like a convergence of a fantasy world or 402 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:30.279 supernatural elements with the real world. And so it's whereas 403 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.359 a fantasy novel could be set in an entirely supernatural 404 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:36.640 world or a made up world, fantastique sort of deal 405 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:41.680 with the tension between the surreal, the supernatural and real life. 406 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:44.559 That's the definition of the fantastique is the sort of 407 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.200 the tension between the two. So he worked in that 408 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:50.680 genre and he was, as you say, quite an interesting figure. 409 00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.079 He made up a lot about his life in interviews 410 00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.319 when he claimed to be sailor, which we can see 411 00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:59.559 is in Yan's character he was actually not a sailor, 412 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:01.680 so he made up quite a lot about his life. 413 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.279 And what's funny is Kumel also inserts a lot of 414 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.799 nods to genre in the film. I think you see 415 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:11.759 early on in the film, Yan stops outside of I 416 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.319 forget exactly what the store is. It's like some kind 417 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.079 of hardware store. 418 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.039 Something like yeah, something like that, working on nets, and 419 00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:22.119 then you have that tagging suit next to him. 420 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.960 Yeah, oh that's right, Yeah exactly. And so the name 421 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.119 of the store is h Dixon, and one of Jeanre's 422 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.279 most famous literary characters was a detective called Harry Dixon, 423 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:34.759 so nod there to him, for sure. So yeah, there's 424 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.559 a couple little nods to Ray throughout his film. 425 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:43.160 Apparently, Alan Renee was very big fan of genre and 426 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.920 wanted to actually do a movie based on some of 427 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.880 those Harry Dixon stories, also known as the American Sherlock Holmes. 428 00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:53.039 I don't know if that was their subtitle or I 429 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:55.759 think it was. I think they were building him up 430 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:57.440 to be a little bit bigger, But yeah, I thought 431 00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.440 that was nice. And then I also thought you mentioned 432 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.079 Jean Forrey, the screenwriter. And there's a lot of times 433 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:08.480 in the commentary track too, where Kummel will be saying, oh, 434 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:10.839 the screenwriter wanted this, so I gave it to him. 435 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.839 That diving suit. He's the one that came up with that, 436 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.839 or there's a part with and I'm going to have 437 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:20.559 a hard time because Susan Hampshire plays multiple characters. I 438 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.200 think it's when she's Nancy, the sister character, where she's 439 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.079 getting money out of this place they're called the Color 440 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.240 Store and her hands I want to say, turn red 441 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.839 while she's getting the money and I was like, oh, 442 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.559 and he's like, yeah, the writer wrote that, and I 443 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.359 thought I would follow suit, I would do what he wrote. 444 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:39.960 I was like, Oh, how nice of you as a 445 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.799 director to actually do what the writer is asking for. 446 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:43.680 That's pretty cool. 447 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:49.519 Yeah, And unfortunately, my understanding is that Fairies screenplay was 448 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:51.640 tampered with quite a bit by the studio, And I 449 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.720 guess we'll probably talk at some point about how this 450 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:58.160 was a big studio project in their involvement in aflex 451 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:03.039 of production that produced different outcomes. But yeah, so I 452 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.160 think I don't know in what ways this screep that 453 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.319 was tampered with or exactly you know what, But I 454 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.759 know anecdotally from Herring, Kommel and the commentary talk about 455 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.640 it that it's not exactly as written by his screen writer. 456 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:17.559 It suffered from some interference. 457 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.680 I mentioned Nancy and Susan Hampshire, and one of the 458 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.400 big reasons too why this feels very surreal is that 459 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.359 she does play multiple roles, and she will even be 460 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.200 in shots with herself. They use a lot of body 461 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.799 doubles for her and they do such a good job. 462 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.000 There are too many times where you're watching an actor 463 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.599 who is playing multiple roles. I'm looking at you, Eddie 464 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.839 Murphy and a few other people where it's just like, Okay, yeah, 465 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:49.359 this is Eddie Murphy and makeup, or this is Eddie 466 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.480 Murphy in a fat suit. Of course, Eddie Murphy does 467 00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.599 pull that stuff off very well, so I'm sorry to 468 00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:59.440 pick on Eddie Murphy, but with this back in nineteen 469 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:04.200 seven one and Susan Hampshire playing these multiple roles, there 470 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:08.039 were times where I had to check myself and say, oh, 471 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.359 that's the same actress. I can't even believe that's the 472 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.680 same actress, especially when she's let's just say to Gorgon, 473 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.200 she looks so different, the way that they've shaped her nose, 474 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:21.440 the way that they've given her green contacts, which were 475 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:24.680 not easy or nice to put in back in the 476 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.799 early seventies. I still remember Michael Jackson and all the 477 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:30.960 problems he had with those contacts in the Thriller video. 478 00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:34.880 They didn't come up with good contact technology until the 479 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.160 nineties or two thousands, So back in nineteen seventy one, 480 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.519 this poor thing wearing these green contacts was just suffering. 481 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.519 I think the daughter of the producer who's also on 482 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:47.759 that commentary track, is talking about how they would put 483 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:50.400 bella donna in her eyes to numb them because it 484 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:53.640 hurts so much. Talk about suffering for your art. 485 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.119 I watched recently the Star Tred at the time with 486 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:01.839 Gary luck lis Ould. He can barely keep his eyes 487 00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:05.519 open for the episode because you see how painful l 488 00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:06.920 must have been in the sixties. 489 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.480 Yeah, I think they do fantastic job of hiding her, 490 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:13.480 but they don't go out of their way at least 491 00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:16.359 for me to say this is the same person. It's 492 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.119 not like a gimmick. And I just think that it's 493 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.480 another layer of the surrealism of this because you've got 494 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:28.480 one actress playing multiple characters, and then also some of 495 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.359 those characters are not humans. And we should probably say 496 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.559 one of the big twists of this movie is that 497 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:39.279 when Yahon makes it to Melportweet, which I'm assuming is 498 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.480 his childhood home. He's coming back home, and there are 499 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.279 all of these weird people that are living there now, 500 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.720 and all of them, except for I think Cassevius, there 501 00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:54.480 were some Well's character. They're all gods. They are all 502 00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:59.240 the original of Greek gods, and so you get hints 503 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:01.880 here and there, as far as oh, this person's playing 504 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.200 some notes, Okay, that's probably Apollo, the god of music, 505 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:07.839 or like this person over here is Vulcan, or this 506 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.960 person over here is Infestus. Sorry, I always fuck up 507 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.319 which one's the Greek and which one's the Roman, So 508 00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:18.359 apologies if I do that tonight. But you find out 509 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:20.880 throughout the course of the movie, and especially there's a 510 00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:26.559 big reveal that Cassevius has captured all of these gods 511 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:30.759 and basically has hit them doing his bidding. Most of 512 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.839 these gods are now house servants, and they've forgotten who 513 00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.519 they are. And I keep screwing up the character's name, 514 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:40.640 I keep forgetting. But the crazy little guy who's the taxidermist, 515 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.880 yeah had him. So all of these gods into human skin, 516 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:48.000 and there are moments where they remember, and there's other 517 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.920 moments where they don't, And yeah, I love this and 518 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.000 that they're all trapped there by, and it almost feels 519 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.680 like for his amusement to have all of these gods 520 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.480 that he has power over. Jessica, you mentioned the kind 521 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:05.720 of almost palimppest way that this is written. That's one 522 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.960 of those stories you're peeling back that onion because you 523 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.160 have multiple narrators, like you're saying, and so many of 524 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:17.160 these narrators it's fragments of stories or I collected this manuscript. 525 00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.519 That's I think again why it reminds me of sorry 526 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:23.000 ghosta manuscript because of the multiple levels and layers that 527 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:26.799 you have, and I love that stuff. I absolutely love 528 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.680 when you have a story that changes as you go 529 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:32.880 through one narrator to another and then have to figure 530 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.319 out where they are in relation to each other as 531 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:37.440 well as in relation to history. 532 00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.319 Yeah, I totally agree. The book is difficult, especially on 533 00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.759 a first read, but it's wonderfully written, and you really 534 00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.440 do have to occasionally stop and say, Okay, what exactly 535 00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:50.680 is going on here? But I think the way he 536 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.160 does that, with different voices and different stories all interwoven, 537 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.599 it is just brilliantly done. There's although genre himself was 538 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:02.079 not a surrealist. He was championed by the surreala's, especially 539 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.839 The frinch Raider orramal Canot. He wrote in a similar 540 00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:07.759 style in some of his works. I can think of 541 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.680 one novel that he wrote that's very much you don't 542 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.440 know where you are entire and you jumped back and 543 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.559 forward in time. It's very surreal. It's like a classic 544 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.839 text of h Surrealism was a big champion of genre 545 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:19.640 in this novel. 546 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.240 Maybe to come back to Susan Hampshire and having to 547 00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:27.839 act within this type of labyrinthine structure. I think part 548 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.720 of the reason that her different characters seem so distinct 549 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.640 is also in the performance. It's not just the fact 550 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.240 that her makeup and hair is so effectively distinct. I 551 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:41.279 think she really does seem like different people in each 552 00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:42.319 of her incarnations. 553 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.039 Oh yeah, completely. And it's not like she's, oh, now 554 00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:49.960 I'm the evil woman, so now I'm gonna can't really 555 00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.720 twirl or mustache because she doesn't have one. She doesn't 556 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:56.039 let add on, she doesn't overact this stuff. It's so 557 00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:59.400 subtle in some of the roles that she's playing, and 558 00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:02.119 I can't remember if they're the furies or the fates, 559 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:05.000 but the three women that are there always knitting stuff, 560 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.079 and I love how the knitting turns into snakes at 561 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:11.079 one point. But when they're knitting things, she's very nondescript. 562 00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:14.039 She does stand out as far as she's the youngest 563 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.840 of these three women and is probably the most interesting one. 564 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:20.119 She's got the most dialogue, I think, but it's not 565 00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.599 look at me in this different role. And when she 566 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:26.719 stands out as Nancy. I love the blue dress that 567 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.559 she's wearing and that she's coated in this blue color. 568 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.880 And Kumal again is so concerned about the colors and 569 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:38.559 the color scheme. I just I love how careful he 570 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:42.880 was with what colors people are wearing, what colors different 571 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.679 objects are. I love that big red and I don't 572 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:48.599 know if it's a stone. When Yan wakes up and 573 00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:51.679 he's looking around, he suddenly he thinks he's back on 574 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.239 his ship because there's a literal porcole right there and 575 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.199 all of this nautical stuff. And I'm guessing is this 576 00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.840 his bed from when he grew up that he always 577 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.480 I want to be a sailor. Is that why there's 578 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.039 so many nautical things? Or did they just set up 579 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.719 this place to make him feel comfortable when he woke 580 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.000 up in this strange bed. 581 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:10.760 He doesn't seem to know that he's at malport Twee 582 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.320 until the reveal comes and they need to come very 583 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.480 or rate about it. 584 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.519 Yeah, my just this has made a little bit clearer 585 00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:21.679 in the book. But initially, when you meet the character 586 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.360 of Jan and he gets off the ship, he goes 587 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.400 looking for a child at home, which he told has disappeared, 588 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:32.239 and Malpertwee is actually a Case's house, so it's not clear. 589 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:33.599 I think the first time I watched it, I didn't 590 00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:35.800 really understand that either, because it's more important in the 591 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.719 book because of the way the stories interconnect that Yon's 592 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.320 house is separate from Malpertwee. But yeah, so that's the 593 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.679 different they're different spaces. 594 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.679 Okay, I did not pick that up at all, Thank 595 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:47.480 you so much. 596 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:51.400 So, yeah, he's dismayed to be there. I think of 597 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.599 Cassevius's bad reputation, and he doesn't want to be there. 598 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.079 He wants to go home. He doesn't understand why Nancy 599 00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:00.199 has also come to Malpertwee and his Eliti has like 600 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:04.199 childhood nanny who's they've all from there They've all all 601 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.280 these people from his various parts of his past and 602 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.159 his family have just landed in this house and he's 603 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:10.239 just not happy about it. 604 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.039 Mm hmm. Do you think that's just his brain putting 605 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:18.199 them all there and melding them all together, because ultimately 606 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.280 this does or allegedly is a fantasy of his. 607 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:26.440 That's a really good question. I think Kummel suggests that 608 00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:29.280 it is. I don't know, Like again, just to compare 609 00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:31.159 to the book, I think in the in the book 610 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:34.559 it's it's a little more separate. But I think Kummel 611 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:37.960 probably liked that idea that it was all a dream. 612 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:39.840 He even said he says of the whole film that 613 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:42.639 it's a fairy tale, it's a fantasy. So I definitely 614 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:46.039 think he could be riffing on the idea that this 615 00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.920 is all going on in Jan's head. 616 00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:52.199 Something that's very key to the sontestique in the French 617 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:57.280 tradition anyway, is that ambiguity. Do you have these intrusions 618 00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:02.280 of potentially supernatural or events, but they're very much in 619 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.400 the perception of the characters. So whether they're hallucinations, dreams, 620 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.639 or some kind of supernatural reality remains open ended. In 621 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:12.679 a lot of that type of fiction. I think this 622 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.800 film carries that tide of approach to its conclusion. 623 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.280 I'm really glad that we talked about a Virgin among 624 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.280 the Living Dead recently or last year. I guess that 625 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.039 was just because this reminds me a lot of that too, 626 00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.199 with the way that we are going to a house 627 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:35.800 that doesn't exist or has our main exist. Yeah, just 628 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.039 like our main character and Virgin among the Living Dead. 629 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.159 And then when you get to this house, you're just like, 630 00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:43.599 who are these people? This is quite a collection of 631 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:48.760 just very odd characters. And then you get the big 632 00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:50.679 reveal at the end of that, Oh, they've been dead 633 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.280 this whole time, and she's actually in this Isn't she 634 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:54.760 in an asylum in that one. 635 00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:57.239 Fished, Yes she is. It's so funny because I had 636 00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:01.280 honestly never thought about how similar the narrative is to 637 00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:04.440 virgionmong the Living Dead, which obviously I love. I chose 638 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.639 that one, and as I'm watching it in one of 639 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:10.039 my recent rewatches for this, I was like, well, I 640 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:12.000 even made in my notes just oh wow, it's just 641 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:15.719 like Virgin among the Living Dead. There's several similarities throughout 642 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:18.159 the film to Virgin among the Living Dead, which I 643 00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:20.800 was just delighted to be able to make note of 644 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.840 any and not to jump to the end too much, 645 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.159 but there is the scene at the end of where 646 00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:30.119 all the relatives I'll just say, comeback, is very much 647 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.719 like the end of Virgin Mung the Living Dead. It 648 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:33.679 just reminds me so much. I think the scenes are 649 00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:34.280 so similar. 650 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.199 Another film that came to mind is The hour Glass Sanatorium, 651 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:40.159 the Polish film. I'm not sure if you've seen that, 652 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:44.079 but this idea that you enter this house in that 653 00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:48.039 case it's a sanatorium and all the usual rules of 654 00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:53.239 time start to vanish. This The character protagonist of that 655 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.760 film too encounters people from his childhood and it's all 656 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.920 been a very free slowing santesmagre just like input tweet. 657 00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:05.400 No, I totally agree with that, and even some of 658 00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.559 the color scheme, because that's the thing I remember the 659 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:12.079 most about Our Glass Sanatorium is just the beauty of 660 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.119 the colors, especially the greens that showed up in that. 661 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.679 That's when I think of that movie. The color green 662 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:18.960 immediately comes to mind. 663 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.920 Yeah, and yet another film along these very same lines, 664 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.360 and also a eurocal film, if you will, is Mario 665 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.199 Baba's Lisa and the Devil very similar with the colors 666 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.639 always eats Bava, so you've got like these baba esque 667 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.119 bright colors. It just almost seems to be something in 668 00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.639 the zeitgeist at the time, because all these films were 669 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.840 made around the same time, and to see these similarities 670 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:41.960 running through them is really quite interesting. 671 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:44.199 I don't want to bang you Orse and Wells drone 672 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:47.360 too loudly, but The Trial as well was film in 673 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:52.000 such a way that there's this kind of ambiguous architecture 674 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.000 all the time, and Well's film that by shooting bits 675 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:57.920 and pieces in totally different spaces and sticking them together, 676 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.119 and so it does become this very dreamlike world because 677 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:06.159 there's no logic to the way the interiors are laid out. 678 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.519 Some of it's shut inside the Guador says Paris. Other 679 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:13.440 things are shot in Italy, it's all mixed together in Yugoslavia. 680 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.920 So yeah, I don't know. There's definitely a category of 681 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:23.599 silves with this imaginative architecture, dreamlike juxtaposition of totally different spaces. 682 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.159 And I love Cassevius. How does Orson Wells ever get 683 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:29.199 out of bed in this movie? I think he's just 684 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:34.639 always in bed, and the bed itself the bedroom, I 685 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.119 should say, feels very much like a theater to me, 686 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:40.880 especially during the reading of the Will and some of 687 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:44.480 those scenes where you just get so many characters stuffed 688 00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.719 into one place and it just feels like Wells is 689 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:48.639 on stage by being in this bed. 690 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.559 I just think one of the attractions of taking this 691 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:53.519 job was to be able to do the whole role 692 00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:56.519 from the bed. He wasn't that mobile at that point, 693 00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:59.639 and no, I don't say that in any derogatory way, 694 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:04.239 but he was having mobility issues, so he was taking 695 00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:08.119 roles that enabled him to basically be fixed in his 696 00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.599 position on screen. In Treasure Island, he doesn't really do 697 00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.480 the peg legs thing at all. You mostly just see 698 00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:18.440 him sitting down. And I think that for the producers 699 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.679 of the film too, they could sell the film as 700 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.239 an Orson Welles film, But because all of his scenes 701 00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:28.119 take place in the exact same setting, it could be 702 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.840 done very quickly. And I think it's three days plus 703 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:34.519 the half day that he gave them pretty sheepish sleep 704 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.280 free because he'd been such a bad play during the filming. 705 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.199 He obviously had some remorse for being so unprofessional that 706 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.119 he let them have a bit of extra time free. 707 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.239 Yeah, what he had just done a Claude Chabral film 708 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.280 and Schabral can contact the Kamal or vice versa. And 709 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.239 he's just Oh, he was a nightmare. I worked with 710 00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:58.679 him for nine weeks and it was just awful at them. Yeah, 711 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.159 he could be a very bad boy and quite often. 712 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:02.119 Yeah. 713 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:04.679 I did read and it's probably in the interview with 714 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.480 Kamel on the Barrel release that Wells was one of 715 00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:10.079 great choices for this role, and the other two being 716 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.480 Henry Fonda and Peter Eustonov. I know quite I feel 717 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.519 like that's a very diverse group, and I feel like 718 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.320 even though Wells there was a lot of trouble on set, 719 00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:22.880 Kamell didn't like working with him, although he says apparently 720 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.039 that in real life he was very nice, but on 721 00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:26.840 the set and working with him, he was a total 722 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.440 pain in the ass. But that I think, I just 723 00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.719 can't imagine anyone else in this role but Wells. Weirdly enough, 724 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.159 I think he just turned up and when they finally 725 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.320 got him to do what he was supposed to do, 726 00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:39.320 he did it wonderfully. 727 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:40.239 Well. 728 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:43.880 When you find out that he had captured all of 729 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.400 these gods that he went to some island and found 730 00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:50.599 them and then brought them all back and enslaved them. 731 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.000 I can see Orson Wells doing that. I could see 732 00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:58.920 him being a young adventurer going out and doing these things. 733 00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.840 I could probably Am and Peter Ustinov and maybe even 734 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:07.039 Henry Fonda, but Wells has that gravitas. And then also 735 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:11.880 where he's at with his way to mobility and doubt 736 00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:15.480 and drinking and eating rich foods and all of these things. 737 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.440 I'm like, yeah, that's probably what I would be doing too, 738 00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:21.599 if I had the wherewithal to capture all of these 739 00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:24.360 gods and make them do my bidding. Yeah, I'd probably 740 00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:26.679 relax and just lay in bed all day too. 741 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:27.199 Why not. 742 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.760 It's very kind of Island of Doctor Moreau for me. 743 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.719 And I think he's in that era like it would have. 744 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:36.239 I could see him playing that role, and it's like 745 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.760 there are some similarities there about it, and we'll probably 746 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:41.079 get to that at some point. About creating trying to 747 00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:43.519 create monsters and stuff, and you see this when you're 748 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.639 in the taxidermis lab. You see all these like jars 749 00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.599 of things, and I'm just that's so island of doctor Morrow. 750 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.960 Oh yeah, what's a bride of Frankenstear And that's kind 751 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:56.119 of the little miniature people, but in this case they 752 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:56.800 didn't work out. 753 00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:57.320 Yeah. 754 00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.320 I love those little mindature people where you get to 755 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.159 hear that squeaking because at first I was like, are 756 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.199 those mice? What is going on here? 757 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.159 And a little arm in the mouse trap while Yong 758 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.360 comes across it and he freaks out. It's like a 759 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:12.159 baby alarm. 760 00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:16.559 Basically, that was great. It took me a minute to 761 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:18.519 even realize what was going on and why he was 762 00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.480 so horrified, And I was like, Oh, it's the little 763 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.480 people that we haven't seen because I literally was thinking 764 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:25.519 of them like mice. 765 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:26.519 Yeah. 766 00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.000 I love the sound design in this. You mentioned the editing. 767 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:33.280 We'll talk more about the different versions, but I think Kamel, 768 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.960 I want to say, he edited this himself, the longer 769 00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:40.840 version of this, and did a freaking fantastic job. It 770 00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:44.400 just flows so wonderfully. We were talking about Tinto Brass 771 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:48.159 recently and just how he was like, Oh, yeah, editing 772 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:50.800 is half the movie, and I have to edit these 773 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.920 movies in order to imbue it with my style, and 774 00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.960 I could see Kamel being exactly the same way this 775 00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.039 feels like him from stem to stern at least the 776 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:03.360 longer version, the shorter one not so much. But with 777 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.360 this one just such care taken with everything, and like 778 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:08.639 we were saying, for as far as the DP being 779 00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:11.880 the co director, I don't think would argue with that 780 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.760 at all because he was such an important figure to 781 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:15.360 this movie. 782 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:19.079 So I don't know if you guys know this sort 783 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:22.000 of the why he didn't edit the version of the 784 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:24.599 film that went to can and was the first version 785 00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:28.039 of the film that was released is basically United Artists 786 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.079 didn't They wanted to have their own editor like they 787 00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:34.159 since it was so again being such a big budget film, 788 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.760 they was an unknown entity to them. So they said, no, 789 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:39.320 we're gonna you did all the shooting, We're going to 790 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:41.400 bring in our own guide to the editing, which was 791 00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:45.320 I think that we've amused and upset by. And so 792 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:47.840 they brought in their own editor. And I know we'll 793 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.280 get to talking about the differences between the two versions later. 794 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:53.760 But ultimately, when Kummel was allowed to make his own 795 00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:56.159 edit the film, which I think was maybe a year 796 00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.320 or two later, and United Artists saw it, of the 797 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:02.239 producer saw and they said we should have let you 798 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:03.960 edit it. Why did you let this version out that 799 00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:06.119 it's nowhere near as good as the version that you 800 00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.679 cut together, And he said, I didn't want to go 801 00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.239 behind this editor's back, and so it was just all 802 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.840 I think United Artists were afraid to take that chance 803 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:16.079 on him, and obviously was a missed opportunity completely. 804 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.840 I think we get the most of the little people 805 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:23.639 when it comes to the Lamperness character, and if I'm 806 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.360 saying that correctly, who we find out later on is 807 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:32.639 actually Prometheus. He has stolen the light and so he 808 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.039 gets his liver picked out every single morning by a bird. 809 00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.760 And the revelation of the bird was a real shocker 810 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.039 to me the very first time I saw this, the 811 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.920 use of the animation, I thought that was fantastic. I 812 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:50.320 like that Kummel admits that Nis is a little much 813 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.199 and that he probably should have been rewritten and separated 814 00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:57.039 from the book a little bit more, because he is 815 00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.920 playing it to the hilt as that character and then 816 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.360 him being tormented by the little people voices doesn't help 817 00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:08.280 very much at all. But because this guy is nuts 818 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:13.320 and he's played by John Pierre Cassell, who, Yeah, I 819 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.679 think he's a great actor, but man Omantisy just go 820 00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:20.159 for it in this role. Hats off to him. He 821 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:21.599 doesn't pull any punches. 822 00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:23.119 It's a little much. 823 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.920 He's a bunuel actor too, and he's very different in 824 00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:31.519 the street show of the bourgeoisie. He knows how to 825 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.360 do that kind of very subtle performance as well. But 826 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:38.360 I guess the character is of all the gods, as 827 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.039 we discovered they are within this house, he's the one 828 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:45.400 who is maybe the least individualized as something more than 829 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:52.079 just Prometheus. I think the other characters have more human qualities. 830 00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:58.440 It seems that lampernous I love that they read Cassevius's 831 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:02.239 will while he's still alive, and he gets to see 832 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:05.159 the reaction from all of the people in the room, 833 00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.039 all of the people that are waiting for him to die, 834 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:11.840 and gets to see how they react when they find 835 00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:14.440 out that they can have all of the wealth that 836 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:18.079 he has amassed over the years. But they can't leave 837 00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:18.519 the house. 838 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:20.559 But they hear the sums of money. They get really 839 00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:22.440 excited then, but he can never leave them. 840 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:25.960 He keeps them in prison. Oh you want my money, Okay, 841 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:28.559 we'll stick around. The last two people that are alive 842 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.400 are the ones that will get everything if they're still 843 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:36.519 in the house, and eventually Nancy. Is it Nancy or 844 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:40.199 is it one of the other incarnations of the actress? 845 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:44.679 But I think it's Nancy and Matthias. They are like, Oh, 846 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.559 we're going to give up the money and we're going 847 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:48.719 to leave. But the rest of the people don't want 848 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:50.719 them to leave. Nor does it feel like the house 849 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:52.599 wants them to leave, Like you're saying, it does feel 850 00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:55.199 very much like melpur Twee is a character here and 851 00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.519 very much a living character. It almost feels like it's 852 00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:02.880 breeding sometimes, especially when you hear those gas lamps and 853 00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.360 the little noise that happens when they get put out. 854 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.480 I'm like, that's totally somebody just doing a voice doing 855 00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:11.840 the sound effects for these lamps. 856 00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.000 At this point in Well's career, I think he had 857 00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:19.719 a lot of professional frustrations and acting was something that 858 00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:24.320 he did buy necessity because he needed to earn a living, 859 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:28.400 and also he funneled a lot of that money into 860 00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:31.000 his own productions. And he just started making the Other 861 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:34.239 Side of the Wind in nineteen seventy and so this 862 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.719 is very soon after he started that project. So he 863 00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:41.159 went to Europe for a while, made some films the 864 00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:44.000 Chapral film I did the name, actually thought he did 865 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:46.719 a Chabral film, and he did this. Being in that 866 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:50.760 position of being an actor being directed brought out the 867 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:53.760 worst in him. He'd been doing this for many years, 868 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.039 being in a lot of movies, usually in Europe, sometimes 869 00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.800 some very bad movies. And when he found himself with 870 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.679 a weak willed directors, he would completely take over as director, 871 00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:08.360 so he'd be performing and directing his own scenes. But 872 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.760 then there were other occasions when he didn't have such 873 00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:14.440 an easy time of taking over. Even on the Third Man, 874 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:18.760 I said of legendary film, legendary performance by Wells, but 875 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.280 he was not very cooperative in that role. I know 876 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.800 that those that were chasing him around Europe to get 877 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.000 into the do a post synchronization, and I think just 878 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:32.840 generally was not happy being subordinate on its film sets 879 00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:37.480 and the stories Kummel tells about Wells and he seems 880 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:40.960 to have really annoyed the crew because of the demands 881 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.679 he was making on them. Not surprising really, Wells was 882 00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:47.119 a bit like that at times and then in totally 883 00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:50.000 at other contexts he would be the most charming first 884 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.079 and the universe, and something about being an actor and 885 00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:59.480 being directed brought out some ugly side of Wells, especially 886 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:01.760 if he didn't respect the film. And I'm curious about 887 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.599 something that I have always thought about Maltlea Twee, is 888 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:10.440 what Wells actually thought about this material, because I think 889 00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:13.800 we may get into this. There are some other Wells 890 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:19.280 projects which echo certain aspects of Malpatwee. I think maybe 891 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.440 the Immoltal story is something we're going to talk about. 892 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:24.440 But that's a film Wells made in the late sixties, 893 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:30.119 really a French television film, but it has another tall 894 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:34.920 blonde sailor as its protagonist as well, and could make 895 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:38.639 an interesting double feature with Melpa Twee. It's about that 896 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:42.559 old man played by Orson Wells who is manipulating the 897 00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.360 life of the lives of this young sailor and a 898 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:49.480 woman played by Jean Moreau and in another weird house. 899 00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.679 I'm surprised Wells didn't take that seemingly take more of 900 00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:57.559 an active interest in this film and it's its subject matter. 901 00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:02.159 Matthew, I'll ask you this because I'm not really at 902 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:05.519 all super familiar with Well's career. Is I read somewhere 903 00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:08.719 that he at some point actually played the god Jupiter, 904 00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:12.119 which is a funny because obviously it's not a god obviously, 905 00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.039 but just a kind of an interesting reference. 906 00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:17.679 I don't know what film that would be, but that 907 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.960 seems like a role built for us and Wells because 908 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:23.719 that's about his size. I think he called himself a 909 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:29.320 king actor, not meaning that he was superior by the actors, 910 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:31.440 meaning that he was a kind of actor who would 911 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:33.639 be cast in those sort of roles. He would play 912 00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.760 kings and leaders, and I guess God Jupiter would be 913 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.719 in that category as well. It'd be hard to imagine 914 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:46.199 or some Wells playing the taxidermists. Multiple reasons. He was 915 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.840 that kind of grand actor, very tall, huge voice, all 916 00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:54.639 of this kind of stuff. Yeah, you can totally understand 917 00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:57.360 why they thought of Wells for this role. I'm actually 918 00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:01.000 not entirely impressed with this performance. I have some reservations 919 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:02.920 about it, and I was interested to hear from you, 920 00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:06.159 Jessica that you do really like his performance, because I 921 00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:11.480 think the makeup issue which Kumo speaks about, is pretty 922 00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:15.400 indicative of Well's approach to performance in this period. Very theatrical, 923 00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.039 and he would do his own makeup and it often 924 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:23.719 looked really banged on the screen in the Multi Story, 925 00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:27.119 which is only three or four years before this. He 926 00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.880 did his own makeup for that film, and it just 927 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:35.320 looks so fake. There's something very theatrical about it. When 928 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:37.199 he would do fillows back in the United States and 929 00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:40.760 they would force makeup artists on it, he looks much better. 930 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.960 But yeah, this was a tendency of his his European period, 931 00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:48.400 and I think the performance is very theatrical too, and 932 00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.400 he does mumble his way through a lot of the lines. 933 00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.840 So anyway, I'm sure to hear Jessica your reflections on 934 00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:55.719 his performance. 935 00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:56.440 He was. 936 00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.320 I think he was able to embody the character in 937 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.199 a way that was really believable for me. And he 938 00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.679 would want Casavius to be this ancient warlock who's in 939 00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:08.199 his sort of dying days, so it's this dying lion 940 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.280 or something like that. At his last gasps. I think 941 00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:14.559 he manages to embody that I'm still this powerful person 942 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:19.239 inside this sort of weak, dying body, even though he 943 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.960 barely moves. He's able to carry over that bombastic personality 944 00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:26.079 and this big, over the top character. And yeah, I 945 00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:29.559 just think he for me, he handled it really well. 946 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.079 I do love the stories about the makeup though, with 947 00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:35.519 having to color corrects for the greenness of the nose, 948 00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.719 and how they would make him sweat under the lights 949 00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:40.320 so they could dad some of the heavy makeup off 950 00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:42.239 of him when he wasn't really paying attention. 951 00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:45.760 Didn't they even do some close ups of him where 952 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:47.880 there was no film in the camera. 953 00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.239 I didn't hear that. I don't know, but I wouldn't 954 00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:56.320 be surprised because he was, according to Kummel and the cinematographer, 955 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:01.960 just so difficult on the the really practical level. He 956 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:06.079 demanded certain things. He demanded, Okay, now you're gonna do 957 00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:07.880 my close up. Now you're going to do the lung shot. 958 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.679 And why are you shooting above the shoulder? Why don't 959 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.960 you change the angle of the cameras? So everything had 960 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:17.679 to be justified to Wells. I think in a way, 961 00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:20.760 he's playing a gay probably test. It's like a kid 962 00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:22.639 testing what he can get away with. 963 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:25.760 It's like Marlon Brando. He would always do that kind 964 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.480 of shit where it's why does the Jirell even need 965 00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:30.880 to be a human? Can't he be a bagel? And 966 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:33.840 it's for fuck's sakes, Marlin, And then it's no, you 967 00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:36.320 are hired for this role, you're going to play it, 968 00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.039 and then once the hammer comes down, then it's okay, 969 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:41.880 all right, they'll do that. But he's he was always 970 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.679 playing those kind of tricks, and yeah, it feels like 971 00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:47.440 Wells was kind of writing that playbook for him. 972 00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.920 Yeah, it seems though. When they would go out to 973 00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:54.920 lunch that week, Kamel and Wells got along wonderfully. Jumeldo 974 00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:58.440 was watching his watch because the time was taking away, 975 00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.800 and Wells didn't want to leave the table to go 976 00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:04.000 back to work that afternoon. Man, I can totally understand 977 00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.360 being so torn between having lunch with Orson Wells, who's 978 00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:11.239 probably the best conversationalist in the history of the world, 979 00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.920 but actually having to go back and keep directing your 980 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.079 movie when you have a very limited time to do this. 981 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.679 So I will, I think, didn't really care. Quite happy 982 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:21.719 to keep eating his lunch. 983 00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:28.039 Yeah, yeah, eating his lunch, drinking his wine probably, yeah. 984 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.920 But can you imagine the feeling of telling Orson Wells 985 00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:33.280 a story or a joke and having him laugh. 986 00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.199 That laugh is just so great. 987 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.960 I loved whenever he would laugh in an interview. 988 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:42.119 He has that great laugh. There's and you only get 989 00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.000 to hear it in the English stubbed version where he 990 00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:48.280 asks where the priest is and one of the three 991 00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.559 sisters says, oh, he's in the church, praying for you 992 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:53.519 because you refuse last rite. This is one of my 993 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:55.440 favorite moments of orson Walls and the Fell. Where do 994 00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:57.559 you see him taking in that information and how funny 995 00:56:57.599 --> 00:56:59.960 it is and then he laughs and it's just wonderful. 996 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:04.559 He's just openly a sorcerer. Of course, the church is 997 00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.599 a joke to him, and all these trappings of Christianity 998 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:08.079 are a joke. 999 00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:11.360 Tom I wanted to address that I did put this 1000 00:57:11.559 --> 00:57:16.519 in October lineup because I don't know how many people 1001 00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:19.760 would consider this a horror movie, but I definitely find 1002 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.280 a lot of horrific elements to it. And then the 1003 00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:26.480 whole idea of these gods who have forgotten who they are, 1004 00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:32.000 these creatures of incredible power that have been captured by Cassevius. 1005 00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:37.480 There's just something really They're very scary. So many of 1006 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:41.159 the gods are frankly, very scary, and especially when you 1007 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:44.039 come to things like the Gorgon. And I love that 1008 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:49.360 Casseavius doesn't die, or he doesn't die a natural death. 1009 00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:53.000 He has the Gorgon turn him into stone become part 1010 00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:56.039 of her reliquary. You get to see at one point 1011 00:57:56.199 --> 00:57:59.000 she's got all of these statues around her, and I'm 1012 00:57:59.079 --> 00:58:01.840 just like, oh, these are the former victims. How nice. 1013 00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:06.800 But when these gods wake up or realize what they 1014 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:08.880 are and what they could do, I mean, that's a 1015 00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:13.559 pretty frightening idea. And in the meantime they just seem 1016 00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:17.039 so off balance that this whole place does not feel 1017 00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:21.360 safe at all. Yeahn wandering around from room to room 1018 00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:24.519 with all these mirrors and long hallways and things. I'm 1019 00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:27.480 just like, you are in an unsafe place, my friend. 1020 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:30.280 I would leave as soon as possible if you can. 1021 00:58:31.039 --> 00:58:33.280 Again, it's a little bit like Virgin among the Living Dead, 1022 00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:37.679 where Christina is repeatedly told throughout the bill you need 1023 00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:40.519 to leave here. This isn't safe, this is dangerous. You 1024 00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:41.599 should get out while you can. 1025 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:46.239 There's a few very violent sequences, and a Prometheus scene 1026 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:49.440 is really hard and gory, but yeah, mostly it's the 1027 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:53.920 atmosphere of a horror movie, more so than the periodic 1028 00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:56.440 scenes of gore and violence that we expect in a 1029 00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:59.800 horror movie. But yeah, and I think psychologically this is 1030 00:58:59.840 --> 00:59:04.679 a very disturbing film an experience for young So it 1031 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.360 seems like a horror movie for me. 1032 00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.679 Yeah, I think it's a lot in the psychology the beyond. 1033 00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:12.559 That's terrifying about it is just the fact that he's 1034 00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:15.239 in this place that he doesn't understand. No one is 1035 00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:18.599 communicating to him what its secrets are, what's going on 1036 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:21.639 with all these people, the general atmosphere of weirdness that 1037 00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:26.159 pervades it. So I think it's that unknown aspect and 1038 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.800 trying to figure out where you are and orienting yourself 1039 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:32.559 in a strange environment that lends itself to the atmosphere 1040 00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:34.880 of terror or beer. 1041 00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:38.119 It's also a comedy, and that's I see this as 1042 00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:41.280 a very funny film. And I watched today back to 1043 00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:45.760 back Daughters of Darkness and Output Maltward Tweet, and yeah, 1044 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:49.199 Daughters of Darkness, the tone of that film is much 1045 00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:53.159 more conventionally a horror film. I think it's a great film. 1046 00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:59.000 But Malpu Tweet is that quirky, weird, funny running through 1047 00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:01.760 it all the way, not just the text of Dervist, 1048 01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.920 but a lot of the characters play these roles in 1049 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:08.559 a kind of comical fashion. So it's a strange mix 1050 01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:11.599 of lows that we see in this film. 1051 01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.000 For me, this lends itself to the fact that I 1052 01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:18.360 think this is a very Belgian film, And you know, 1053 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:21.360 I don't know how much you know and Omni Belgians 1054 01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:23.400 you know, or how familiar you are with Belgian culture, 1055 01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:26.719 but it's it's definitely it conveys a sort of I 1056 01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:29.760 think what's known as Belgitude, which is the term that 1057 01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:34.880 was coined to explain the tension that Belgians have in 1058 01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:38.599 their culture of being split between two colonial powers, two 1059 01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:42.000 dominant languages spoken within the country, and there's just a 1060 01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:46.760 self deprecating humor that Belgians have. And I really I 1061 01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:49.599 hear when I hear Camel being interviewed, and I feel 1062 01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:51.159 like I see it a lot in this film. When 1063 01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:53.840 you mentioned the comedy, I think that's totally resonant with 1064 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:58.199 that kind of vibe of trying to interject some humor 1065 01:00:58.280 --> 01:01:02.599 into what could otherwise be very serious, stark phil So, 1066 01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:04.199 I love those moments. If you were in it again, 1067 01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:08.360 it reminds you of how specifically Belgian this film is. Well. 1068 01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:11.760 I love those moments where you get that tableau of 1069 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:16.719 you know, the three women knitting and you get to 1070 01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:19.079 see the ceiling, which is really nice. You get to 1071 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:21.800 see the gorgon, she's usually by the mirror, which is 1072 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.000 kind of cool as well. And then the taxidermist Didelo 1073 01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:27.920 counting his money that he can never spend because he's 1074 01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:30.039 going to be stuck at this house forever. But I 1075 01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:33.000 love those shots where again, it reminds me very much 1076 01:01:33.039 --> 01:01:37.719 of a stage presence, where you're just getting that almost 1077 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:40.920 establishing shot of these characters, and sometimes you cut into 1078 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:43.199 them and sometimes you don't. You just watch them, like 1079 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.239 the one moment where the taxidermist has that cup and 1080 01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:48.360 ball game and he's just trying to do that and 1081 01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:50.400 he's just over on the side of the screen doing 1082 01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:52.480 that for a while everybody else is doing their thing. 1083 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:55.920 And I just love those little reset moments because really 1084 01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:59.880 the taxidermist is pretty fucking scary, because that's the one 1085 01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:02.679 time where Yan really has to worry about his life, 1086 01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:05.719 is that he almost gets cut open and stuffed by 1087 01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:08.239 the text thermis. I love way he is just oh, 1088 01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:11.280 and you've got such beautiful skin to flay. I'm like, 1089 01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:14.679 oh my god, this is hawful. And I'm like he's 1090 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:19.199 just eyeing them up to put sawdust or straw inside 1091 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:20.159 of this poor guy. 1092 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:22.599 What you were saying before about the way that the 1093 01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:25.039 images are set up, and I think the whole film 1094 01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.360 is very painterly, and I think intentionally. I think, in fact, 1095 01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:31.360 I'm sure that Kamela's is and Jerry Fisher because I 1096 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:33.679 think he said that Jerry Fisher went to a lot 1097 01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:37.800 of Belgian museums to look at artworks, plumaged in Belgian artworks, 1098 01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:41.480 and he's definitely making references to specific works of art 1099 01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:44.199 in these films, like I'm thinking of Paul delvo A 1100 01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:47.239 Nam agreed, I think De Delou's bowler Hat is such 1101 01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:51.639 a great mcgret reference, James enzeor with the Mask. So again, 1102 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:53.559 this kind of goes back to the pole Belgian nos 1103 01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:56.519 of it is like it's the art and literature is 1104 01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:59.480 very ingrained in their culture. So it's just part of 1105 01:02:59.559 --> 01:03:01.880 growing up in Belgium is these things are are embedded 1106 01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:04.679 in your psychee. So it doesn't surprise me all that 1107 01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:08.280 you see these specific references to artworks throughout the film. 1108 01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:10.599 And there's even a point where one of the sequences 1109 01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:13.800 where Ian is going through the house and opening various 1110 01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:16.639 doors to rooms and he opens one and it's just 1111 01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:19.559 like a painting. It's obviously there's a sort of almost 1112 01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:22.920 like a cinematic reference to matt painting in cinema. But 1113 01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:26.079 also it's again like surrealists are like Matis, so almost 1114 01:03:26.119 --> 01:03:27.840 like a sky or something like that, So you don't 1115 01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.199 expect to open a door and find a sky that 1116 01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.639 doesn't just you know, not a window, just it's there. 1117 01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:35.159 And again it is very artificial as well, like it's 1118 01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.679 not like a realistic painting of a sky. It's definitely 1119 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:39.400 like invoking surrealist art. 1120 01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:42.360 And did anybody think of Raul rue Is looking at this? 1121 01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:45.760 I don't know how familiar you are with that filmmaker, 1122 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:50.840 but another kind of baroque surrealist and in films like 1123 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.480 Three Clowns of the sailor that. 1124 01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:55.880 Ohh yeah, I did think of that film. Actually, I'm 1125 01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:58.199 glad you mentioned that because there are some similarities there 1126 01:03:58.280 --> 01:03:59.360 for sure with that film. 1127 01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:02.519 I can't say I'm that familiar with his work. Unfortunately, 1128 01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:03.679 it sounds like I need to be. 1129 01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:06.199 Well, we made it more than one hundred films, so 1130 01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:08.280 you got a big job ahead of you, Michael, but 1131 01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.400 take your choice. Yeah, yeah, the filing of that kind 1132 01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:15.679 of baroque Mezo saying the way that this film is 1133 01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:19.199 not with tweets, that every shot is filled with so 1134 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:22.599 many things, and often things in the foreground, things in 1135 01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:25.320 the background. That's the kind of approach Raw Ruiz takes, 1136 01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:30.400 and sometimes two extreme almost comical lengths where you'll have 1137 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:34.440 extreme foreground objects and then with split diopters you'll have 1138 01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:37.239 things in the very very distance. But in terms of 1139 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:40.800 the storytelling too, there's a lot of commonality these that 1140 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:44.880 kind of labyrinthine stories within stories, as you mentioned the 1141 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:47.840 Saragosa Manuscript of the one thousand and one Nights. The 1142 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.239 love of storytelling and the way that places sometimes are 1143 01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:57.159 the portals into stories and into different times. That's very 1144 01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:59.719 much part of Ruiz's filmmaking. 1145 01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:04.480 Is I love how this movie ends. We talked about 1146 01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:07.440 Virgin among the living dead. There is that type of 1147 01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:10.920 element with all of the gods coming out, and then 1148 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.719 that poor priest trying to hold up his cross, and 1149 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:18.440 the one character breathes fire to melt the cross, which 1150 01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:22.119 is pretty great. I can't remember if that's he Festus. 1151 01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:23.519 I guess it makes sense. 1152 01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:24.079 He's got the. 1153 01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:28.639 Power over fire exactly. Yeah, But then how the movie 1154 01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:32.480 kind of peels itself back. We talked about the layers 1155 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:36.800 of coming to town and seeing Nancy, and then he 1156 01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:39.760 goes into the brothel, and then it gets over the head, 1157 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:43.440 and then he goes to Cassavies' house, and at one 1158 01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:46.400 point during the movie towards the end, he wakes up 1159 01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.000 and now he's back at the brothel, and then he 1160 01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:51.079 starts to run through the city again like he was 1161 01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:54.639 chasing Nancy. And then you get to see, Oh, here's 1162 01:05:54.679 --> 01:05:56.800 a sign and it has this character's name, and oh, 1163 01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:59.360 here's another sign with another character's name. He's just oh, 1164 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:01.559 is this was this real or not? But then he 1165 01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:04.280 actually finds the house and goes through that some more, 1166 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:07.679 and then eventually you find out that no, that isn't 1167 01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:11.039 the finale of this, that we are one layer deeper, 1168 01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:15.519 that he's actually a patient at a mental institution and 1169 01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.280 has written this all out as almost like his therapy. 1170 01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:22.760 And yeah, I just I love that we keep pulling 1171 01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:27.360 back and back only to find that the whole story 1172 01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:29.960 wasn't even the story that we were being told. 1173 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.119 And again, Very Virgin of the Living Dead wakes up 1174 01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:39.480 and suddenly is in the hospital recovering from this psychological misadventure. 1175 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:41.480 All right, We're going to take a break and play 1176 01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:44.280 an interview with the director of malput Tweet, Harry Kumel, 1177 01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:47.280 and we'll be back with that right after these brief messages. 1178 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:51.519 Casino Andishkia is new today on digital in the brand 1179 01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:55.440 new action comedy starring Dominic purcell a fading action star 1180 01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:58.000 heads to Italy to revive his career with a bold 1181 01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:01.000 new movie, but when the production's virals out of control, 1182 01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:06.119 his comeback turns into a hilarious misadventure by Casino Initia 1183 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:09.559 on digital, now not rated from Republic Pictures. 1184 01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:14.360 How did you even get your start when it came 1185 01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:17.519 to filmmaking, because you've been making films for quite a while, 1186 01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:19.360 even before you got to your first feature. 1187 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:24.599 It's very and it's the story that I've do many times. 1188 01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:33.159 My parents like the double eight film camera at that time, 1189 01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:37.639 that let's go double eight, not super eight. Look at 1190 01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:44.119 they came to sting they can do. He filmed the family, 1191 01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:48.079 you know, right that people be so Will had the 1192 01:07:48.199 --> 01:07:54.360 camera Nick after the war and Roger the planning quite expensive. 1193 01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:59.639 He filmed and the film looked. I already went to 1194 01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.960 look to be seen about even at a very young age. 1195 01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:07.440 You will give my pocket money that they my parents 1196 01:08:07.519 --> 01:08:11.159 gave me every week to say you look to this. 1197 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:16.479 So the films look not at all like films in 1198 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:21.000 the cinema. They were all dreadfully film. But you know, 1199 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:31.279 and so I told him second day, he doesn't look 1200 01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:34.920 like anything. If you can do it better. Here it's 1201 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:38.920 the camera and you buy film yourself and you show 1202 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:44.479 me what you can. Must have been I cannot exactly see. 1203 01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:50.600 So I made the film filmed in the street, the tricks, 1204 01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:54.439 the tran ways disappeared, you know that kind of thing 1205 01:08:54.920 --> 01:09:00.279 stage that I read about. And then my father out 1206 01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:06.279 so without and said the immortal wealth. But where is 1207 01:09:06.359 --> 01:09:11.640 your mother and where is your city? Who didn't it 1208 01:09:11.960 --> 01:09:16.720 just me at all? At cirys Low. So that went 1209 01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:21.640 the beginning with comrades at skin. One of them was 1210 01:09:22.039 --> 01:09:27.920 quite wealthy, had very expensive double eight camera called bullets. 1211 01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:33.199 They are still existing in sixteen millimeters and what's the 1212 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:37.880 beny best camera on in the market. That's very very 1213 01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:42.319 from about ten of my school cameras, I must have 1214 01:09:42.520 --> 01:09:48.159 been through our thirteen we made a feature film together, 1215 01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:53.079 not alone, feature of the detective story with false new 1216 01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:58.439 stuff because of the blueberry length self want and using 1217 01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:02.920 our own apartment center kind of pick and people saw 1218 01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:07.720 that and thought, well, it looks like a film. So 1219 01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:18.359 then at fourteen I read a am purchasement that amateur 1220 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:23.479 films were showing their flow in Antwerp in real cinema, 1221 01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:28.159 and I went to see that and that was a 1222 01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:34.279 revelation for me because they were able to show films 1223 01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:42.039 over sixteen win sounds, which at that time was something 1224 01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:48.640 extraordinary because having sound on film at that time for 1225 01:10:48.800 --> 01:10:54.560 Amatuel was an extremely complicated thing. You got to struggle 1226 01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:59.880 well about the details of the cher So I saw 1227 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:03.399 that I was a big fong and I at that 1228 01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:07.720 time I already went two three times in the week 1229 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:11.479 to do cinema to the films that were children allowed, 1230 01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:17.279 and I also was sent by my parents in English 1231 01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:22.880 summer school since the age of twelve, and in Britain 1232 01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:29.359 films that were not allowed to go and were not 1233 01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:34.800 danger films. A film like Hitchcock you could go see 1234 01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:37.840 when you were had where a company by an adult. 1235 01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:43.640 So there I saw my first Hitchcock when I was twelve, 1236 01:11:44.359 --> 01:11:49.520 and that was dialm in three DS. That this was 1237 01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:54.319 extraordinary that I've already seen on self a few Hitchcock 1238 01:11:54.399 --> 01:12:00.279 films whom I thought were extraordinary. But I'd also seenilms 1239 01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:04.760 by from steal Belt, among others. My father immediately because 1240 01:12:05.079 --> 01:12:11.399 the boat very big television the story of anatahan By 1241 01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:17.159 from stone Belt to say Masters, which also they impressed 1242 01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:21.720 me very much. I also saw a unual on television 1243 01:12:22.840 --> 01:12:27.880 which impressed me also the new not Forget. I was 1244 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:33.159 a teenager of thirteen fourteen fifty. I said, I want 1245 01:12:33.279 --> 01:12:37.640 to make films that look like that. And I went 1246 01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:43.560 to the amateur of films who have shown these films 1247 01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:47.880 in the cinema, which I'm made so much because you 1248 01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:51.439 saw a kettle boiling and you help the sounds of 1249 01:12:52.039 --> 01:12:58.119 the kettle and that guns so I have musical and 1250 01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:05.079 wonderful editing. Because there were no films that only amateurs 1251 01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:10.039 made films. So I went there and they saw this 1252 01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:15.439 little guy of fourteen arrived me and saying I wanted 1253 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:20.319 to be a member of your club. I became a 1254 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:27.119 mentep club and May with my sister my first feature film, 1255 01:13:27.399 --> 01:13:31.319 The Wheel the Bow, destroying the house of my parents, 1256 01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:39.359 and that was to go with the Maxsticks Anderson. I 1257 01:13:39.560 --> 01:13:43.680 destroyed the pillows who makes snow with that kind of things, 1258 01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:48.720 well whatever that work. And some of the people that 1259 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:54.159 amateur club helped me to put taitoos on it and 1260 01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:59.840 sounds which was musing back back the area, back the 1261 01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:04.560 sad music, and it was four of Trick's film Trick 1262 01:14:05.119 --> 01:14:09.479 with that I like, very bad double in the thing. 1263 01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:16.800 And I showed this film indy amateur and it was 1264 01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:21.159 what they call an over night said, these people could 1265 01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:23.680 not believe that the guy, a young guy of what 1266 01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:26.920 the years, had made the film that made him try. 1267 01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:31.680 So I thought, I can do things that all those 1268 01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:35.359 cannot do. I had my studies to go on n 1269 01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:42.000 go beyond me what very young man does when he 1270 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:47.640 is back studying. But at the same time, my only 1271 01:14:47.840 --> 01:14:53.359 dream was to go to make film. My saga Tip 1272 01:14:54.119 --> 01:15:02.039 day let me do his business what was nothing and 1273 01:15:02.479 --> 01:15:07.479 I wanted to So I started to help people who 1274 01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:11.039 work television were starting at that time. I'm talking now 1275 01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:19.239 of fifty six exet and still in the amateur and 1276 01:15:19.359 --> 01:15:23.279 in the a matter, we were atue that all these 1277 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:30.199 amateurs found not belonging to amateurs. They said, you make 1278 01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.319 films like they make in the cinema that does not 1279 01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:39.680 interest us, so we became accepted which was being founded 1280 01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:46.600 quite famous at the time called film fifty eight times 1281 01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:50.760 that it was made, and we started to make much 1282 01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:55.319 more important and at the same time we started to 1283 01:15:56.119 --> 01:16:01.680 do little items for televisions were about cinema and I 1284 01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:07.479 was helping and there and everything and not the mission. 1285 01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:12.560 I was ten twenty twenty one, still studying, just out 1286 01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:16.960 of the army as a lieutenant, and the people at 1287 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:21.199 the Terribusion there was a show at the showing new 1288 01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:27.439 fragments excerpts of new children in the weeks, and they 1289 01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:33.039 asked me to come, because I've done I can for 1290 01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:38.600 that show, to come and direct that show. So I 1291 01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:41.960 was able thanks to that to see a lot of 1292 01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:46.439 fills in the week because I choose the e And 1293 01:16:47.159 --> 01:16:50.279 at the age of twenty one, they said we have 1294 01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:56.439 here a winter Skins the Wander Silent and the first 1295 01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:02.319 big go production between Holland and Transers in my home 1296 01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:10.880 country was big, big documentary about Erasmus the Philops and 1297 01:17:11.079 --> 01:17:16.119 they said to me, do you work to make this documented. 1298 01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:24.239 I remember my school year, my different something, and in 1299 01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:28.479 one month, less than one months, I read everything I 1300 01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:31.880 could about as they said, okay, I'll do it, and 1301 01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:35.800 we went with the school of four people throughout all 1302 01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:40.760 of you because of that credible and travel in this 1303 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:49.640 time everywhere when it's anyway, but every rope, and we've 1304 01:17:49.720 --> 01:17:55.520 filmed the documentary, you're seeing natural occasions where it will 1305 01:17:55.560 --> 01:18:02.680 commentary be spoken by this My only I insisted, go 1306 01:18:02.960 --> 01:18:07.319 one thing because at that time everything on television on 1307 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:12.399 film but film on sixty minutes, I said, black and white. 1308 01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:17.600 I said, oh no, I only want to made thirty 1309 01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:22.119 five million, almost big, big to do when everything that 1310 01:18:22.279 --> 01:18:25.800 I said, if I don't have that, it's five millimeters, 1311 01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:31.560 I am not doing it. So they accepted. And you 1312 01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:36.640 must always remember that at that time film were extremely 1313 01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:41.439 expensive as the material to buy it, so that was 1314 01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:47.680 not a city. I went off to make that documentary 1315 01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:53.319 and it went on in me have beached celebs price 1316 01:18:54.079 --> 01:18:58.960 go at that time called the Italia ri it's so 1317 01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:05.119 be it. And so I went on making a lot 1318 01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:10.439 of prestigious documentary a little bit like Gems in the 1319 01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:17.680 Indian's naturally not in that amount, but that kind of thing, big, big, 1320 01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:23.319 big production. And also they started to give me and 1321 01:19:23.479 --> 01:19:29.439 that was my first thing with actors on television because 1322 01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:35.800 I'd already started direct active stage. On the stage, I 1323 01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:39.880 had been there in between, all in between, I had 1324 01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:45.520 been an assistant to very famous stage story and definitely 1325 01:19:46.119 --> 01:19:50.199 so I knew began you know something about active story. 1326 01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:55.000 And they started to give me one of my first 1327 01:19:55.800 --> 01:20:00.279 video feature all song thirty five million. It were the 1328 01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:07.000 Grief Diggers by Hans Cuttery, only play that I recently saw. 1329 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:12.840 It began or somebody of twenty must have been twenty five. 1330 01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:19.439 What's not bad looking back, so they said to me 1331 01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:23.920 at that time it looked different than what the people 1332 01:20:24.039 --> 01:20:27.760 will pay. That's what's the whole point. And it was 1333 01:20:28.159 --> 01:20:32.359 I would always been a very good technician. Please don't 1334 01:20:32.439 --> 01:20:35.960 think and this are supposed to be a good technician 1335 01:20:36.199 --> 01:20:40.279 is nothing, and that there's simply something one can love 1336 01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:45.800 as one does. There is nothing to be a good technique. Unfortunately, 1337 01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:50.479 the cinema is made of very bad technique nowadays. 1338 01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:51.680 And the. 1339 01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:57.319 Discuss but if a ballet anouncer would be done, see 1340 01:20:57.840 --> 01:21:02.279 like some do make its are making, they wouldn't have 1341 01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:06.319 enough to make those and broughtten eggs to throw to 1342 01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:12.079 the state. This is with the terrible this, So I 1343 01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:17.239 went on. They were at that time, the first subsidies 1344 01:21:17.399 --> 01:21:23.319 in were being developed by the Ministry of Culture, and 1345 01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:27.119 of course they came to me and said, I heard 1346 01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:36.119 your basic television documentary. I said, there are dailor plays, whatever, 1347 01:21:37.319 --> 01:21:41.239 are you interested to do a first movie? Because I 1348 01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:48.319 mean with whom self? Such something depicted that didn't because 1349 01:21:48.359 --> 01:21:53.000 it wasn't blending enough towards the basic novel by Henry 1350 01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:58.920 Jane and Jane not especially a Flemish writer and uh 1351 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.279 and so I had adapted to Belgium, but that was 1352 01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:10.840 not enough. I need to do them better. They counseled 1353 01:22:10.960 --> 01:22:14.960 me to you a Semish writer, and I made my 1354 01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:19.680 first feature, which was going to do show. This film 1355 01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:24.199 was not very well deceived in Belgium, but when it 1356 01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:27.239 was shown in writ all of of a sudden it 1357 01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:30.359 was chown as one of the ten best films of 1358 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:36.560 that year. Slowly I started to build up my careers. 1359 01:22:37.640 --> 01:22:41.239 Were you aware of the novel mel Portwitt before you 1360 01:22:41.399 --> 01:22:42.279 started the project? 1361 01:22:43.079 --> 01:22:46.640 My first show at your apartment? But there it's when 1362 01:22:46.720 --> 01:22:54.319 you teach again. It's very very heap ex It has 1363 01:22:54.359 --> 01:22:58.520 been restored now everybody in front of safety the best 1364 01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:02.479 still meta bay at that kindle. Did you see, but 1365 01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:07.039 don't forget. It's a very small country and people don't 1366 01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:12.479 understand in your own country what you are doing now internationally. 1367 01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:18.439 At that time already I must say that they remember 1368 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:22.239 and go a little bit back. I was still making 1369 01:23:22.479 --> 01:23:27.880 shows for the new films in the week that I 1370 01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:32.279 look you about with excerpts of film. And for that 1371 01:23:32.760 --> 01:23:37.840 I was sent to various films where I met a 1372 01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:41.600 lot of film direct with whom I started to talk 1373 01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:45.840 and they saw this young man that you'd have always 1374 01:23:45.920 --> 01:23:50.800 the same thing. Oh, this very young man knows well. 1375 01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:57.079 I got acquainted with very famous direct who were very nice, 1376 01:23:58.239 --> 01:24:03.159 and we saw that film and liked it and made 1377 01:24:03.279 --> 01:24:08.000 it knows compliments and so you see this. I have 1378 01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:12.000 to tell you that I went to a lot, so 1379 01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:17.000 I think three three years, for as long as ten years. 1380 01:24:18.239 --> 01:24:23.159 So I'm gonna gold I'm missed doing so from the 1381 01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:30.399 film everybody, well, it returns to belt being this film. 1382 01:24:32.399 --> 01:24:42.800 All the critics forget ever and start feeling too, bury 1383 01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:52.840 me under ross and whatever you want, and they and somebody, 1384 01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:59.079 the producer lady for you told me there is one 1385 01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:03.439 subject that completely made for you. That is the novel 1386 01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:10.600 nult three by genre and I said, I read the number. 1387 01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:13.960 I said, my goodness, it is almost impossible to do. 1388 01:25:14.680 --> 01:25:22.479 But being and that are twenty six emergive being about thirty, 1389 01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:25.600 I mean, I don't know. But before that the twenty 1390 01:25:26.039 --> 01:25:31.159 take twenty nine, I was thirty nine. I said, But 1391 01:25:31.319 --> 01:25:34.479 because it's still cool, and because I had made the 1392 01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:38.039 first cook, which was not the easiest subject to do. 1393 01:25:39.039 --> 01:25:42.560 I said, you know, when you are wet time you say, 1394 01:25:43.039 --> 01:25:47.960 you say to yourself, I can't do it. So I said, oh, well, outsied, 1395 01:25:48.760 --> 01:25:54.119 But having made that very well film that was such, 1396 01:25:54.359 --> 01:26:00.319 it said, certainly not immediately with the public here Roun, 1397 01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:05.039 but it turns me and also with the young producers 1398 01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:09.720 and film make it here in Belgium who ordered me 1399 01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:14.680 and said you are the best of the TUC And 1400 01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.000 they came to me and they said, we are young 1401 01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:26.960 producers and we have directed and produced erotic movies. Well, 1402 01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:31.960 what you call shan film. Are you prepared to do 1403 01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:36.640 one of these films for us in your style? I 1404 01:26:36.760 --> 01:26:40.159 said everything. If it is in my style, the style 1405 01:26:40.239 --> 01:26:45.439 of that, it will never be commercial. Can no, no, no, 1406 01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:49.920 no no. We believe in you make it. So where 1407 01:26:50.520 --> 01:26:54.319 I watch, confronted with the idea that was while I 1408 01:26:54.520 --> 01:27:00.359 was preparing mal so no mind said okay that at 1409 01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:05.640 the same time I watch within my head, woom can 1410 01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:08.960 I talked to I don't. I don't like to ride 1411 01:27:09.039 --> 01:27:16.319 my mood myself. I'm like an opera composer. I Leally Nycoto, 1412 01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:20.159 and I know the opera composers did their own little 1413 01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:25.600 great bos like Micha Plagner, the red food ramatists. And 1414 01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:29.960 because they need four hours to do something you can 1415 01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:36.239 do in twenty minutes. So not thinking away he's great 1416 01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:41.000 that but that he could he was not very keep 1417 01:27:41.720 --> 01:27:49.960 and that by myself. One of the reasons, and Hitchcock 1418 01:27:50.119 --> 01:27:54.840 Network allot directly itself, was it's much better to work 1419 01:27:54.920 --> 01:28:02.199 with someone so I have because I traveled a lot 1420 01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:06.840 of television who documentary that right. I gave him to 1421 01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:13.920 contact with very important intellectual people in France and everybody 1422 01:28:14.079 --> 01:28:18.840 I asked, do you perhaps know somebody in France who 1423 01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:23.800 knows about cinema and would be capable to do that, 1424 01:28:24.279 --> 01:28:28.159 not to adapt that not and never body will well 1425 01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:31.399 do that novel that's a different one from them. That 1426 01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:36.560 one of the very great publishers of France told me, 1427 01:28:37.199 --> 01:28:41.319 I know of somebody do you treat up super start 1428 01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:46.039 that food? There? What published tale that's trying to pick 1429 01:28:46.119 --> 01:28:49.880 that toy important? And he said, I know it and 1430 01:28:50.039 --> 01:28:54.159 it's called not very Unfortunately, because of the novel guy, 1431 01:28:54.560 --> 01:28:58.520 he has no longer much work. He had written at 1432 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:04.720 that time sixty five sins. Can imagine, among which one 1433 01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:11.199 of the greatest French ever made the Kids of the Bahow. 1434 01:29:12.079 --> 01:29:15.359 But not only that, he had written the treatment of 1435 01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:21.359 the Children of Paradise. Can you imagine because of that quality, 1436 01:29:22.439 --> 01:29:25.520 who did not have any working because of the new 1437 01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:30.439 real lie. These idiots of the new reb believe that 1438 01:29:30.680 --> 01:29:33.920 they could write, which they couldn't. They couldn't throw that 1439 01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:37.159 they couldn't write. Two thinks that the same mode, the 1440 01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:44.079 biggest one being false. It's harmably bad director. And I 1441 01:29:44.159 --> 01:29:48.039 don't even mention something that are of device. I go 1442 01:29:48.319 --> 01:29:54.520 from it. And these people were there except with a 1443 01:29:54.600 --> 01:30:02.279 few except female. Of course it will make that and 1444 01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:06.760 song that they were in the bar. They were, and 1445 01:30:08.319 --> 01:30:14.840 they were truly they were fantastic people, and of course 1446 01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:21.079 example became. They were very good, but the rest scratch 1447 01:30:22.399 --> 01:30:27.279 so uh. This poor man, together with the other great 1448 01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:35.880 writers for the bus, were written for ludeuphon were the best, 1449 01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:39.520 the best of the best in France. And I can 1450 01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:43.520 assure you that screaming scream writers when they were the 1451 01:30:43.640 --> 01:30:49.439 best of the best, two them, they were very very 1452 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:55.399 very good. Then they presented me to that man he 1453 01:30:55.600 --> 01:31:00.399 reads the book. It's it's a bit difficult. Which is 1454 01:31:01.159 --> 01:31:04.319 did you which? And said we better do to have 1455 01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:09.079 I think about Meanwhile, now I go back to these 1456 01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:13.079 young prodies who had said made for us and the 1457 01:31:13.199 --> 01:31:21.520 optics in silent h and uh I said, oh my goodness, 1458 01:31:22.680 --> 01:31:26.239 to do that. So and I didn't even know what 1459 01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:30.680 kind of subject when uh as say about me. I 1460 01:31:30.800 --> 01:31:34.560 went for a walk. You saw a magazine called the 1461 01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:42.279 History up history, and and we retired to the bloody 1462 01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:48.359 countess that counts sound count about the countess? That story 1463 01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:52.439 I read about because oh, I said, this is the 1464 01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:56.600 subject for me. Seek under development. You dembeat in the 1465 01:31:56.680 --> 01:32:00.479 blood of the refect. You stay young one. I go 1466 01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:03.760 immediately back with this young produce. So we say you're 1467 01:32:03.840 --> 01:32:11.880 completely bad. This low bugs in costume. It's seventeen sixth 1468 01:32:13.039 --> 01:32:18.399 no no, no, no no no, that was before digit 1469 01:32:18.560 --> 01:32:22.199 to see them up, that's where you could have multiplied 1470 01:32:22.439 --> 01:32:28.800 the and I and I said, oh, but that's not 1471 01:32:28.880 --> 01:32:33.159 the public. Since he bathes in the blood of words 1472 01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:38.239 to stay young. Maybe she's still young and she's still 1473 01:32:38.439 --> 01:32:43.439 longing the world looking for to gets more difficult every day. 1474 01:32:44.199 --> 01:32:50.479 And with the young Podude who asked me that, and 1475 01:32:50.600 --> 01:32:53.800 it was very great, I must say. He asked that 1476 01:32:55.319 --> 01:32:59.600 we wrote a treatment of sixty page which I didn't 1477 01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:03.800 have on the on the corner of the table in 1478 01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:09.399 during three days and three ninety all in one pie. 1479 01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:13.600 And that's was the film that would become Daughters of Time. 1480 01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:17.640 And I said, we couldn't. But if I hit it now, 1481 01:33:18.159 --> 01:33:23.920 this is a bad subject with erotic scenes. I cannot 1482 01:33:23.960 --> 01:33:27.560 show this to my parents, who would the deaf care blitz. 1483 01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:33.479 But you know, and and I said this, I've just 1484 01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:38.439 made the film that has been applauded by a great 1485 01:33:38.560 --> 01:33:43.279 director like Peter Brook in England said that was myself 1486 01:33:44.640 --> 01:33:48.560 when we saw that they be a fine So whatever 1487 01:33:49.720 --> 01:33:52.840 you know to be applauded by Peter Brook at that time, 1488 01:33:53.039 --> 01:33:57.000 I don't know it. You can imagine, but that was 1489 01:33:57.159 --> 01:34:00.920 just the great director of that was the accur dreams 1490 01:34:01.119 --> 01:34:05.319 and more of his time. Oh, I thought, I have 1491 01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:11.159 got a salut. I can't insult his good younger producer. 1492 01:34:12.079 --> 01:34:17.880 I send the treatment to jelfried is great writer. Letter written. 1493 01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:21.960 They talk of the parody well the treatment, and regretted 1494 01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:27.920 of the all the films of usul in Christian Jack 1495 01:34:28.560 --> 01:34:33.840 name a great French filmmaker. He had word and this 1496 01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:38.279 and he will certainly reject this as the world has 1497 01:34:38.479 --> 01:34:42.319 he ever heard. And then I have the defense to 1498 01:34:42.479 --> 01:34:46.920 do something else. I send it to him. At that 1499 01:34:47.119 --> 01:34:55.239 time we use telegraph. That guy and courier communic key 1500 01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:00.239 and I get back to telegram this story. Is it 1501 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:05.920 the great Liberation? I want to write the dialogue and 1502 01:35:06.199 --> 01:35:09.880 readapt the screen and adapt the skip from the script. 1503 01:35:11.119 --> 01:35:16.039 My plan fell into the water. So I was down 1504 01:35:16.680 --> 01:35:20.840 by this. I put in a second top stack in this. 1505 01:35:21.239 --> 01:35:24.880 I said, if we do that, though, I want the 1506 01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:32.800 greatest uh intellectual actress of France at that time, the 1507 01:35:32.960 --> 01:35:41.840 great Delphin Sherry. She had just me that because he's 1508 01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:47.920 the great actor side of the state actic, and I 1509 01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:50.800 said I would do it because she will Confuse, of 1510 01:35:50.920 --> 01:35:54.560 course I don't do that kind of trust. This was 1511 01:35:54.680 --> 01:35:59.000 not knowing either love or at that time who loved 1512 01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:05.920 coming speak, and not knowing her sense of humor and intelligence. 1513 01:36:06.239 --> 01:36:09.640 And she said, oh, this is one such completely different 1514 01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:14.560 for what they lets me do and everything, we will 1515 01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:16.760 have a lot of fun. I want to do it. 1516 01:36:17.319 --> 01:36:21.279 So my second plan let into the water. So I 1517 01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:25.039 was bound by that, that you'll go back to my 1518 01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:30.239 earth that had been a little bit postponed that he 1519 01:36:30.439 --> 01:36:35.800 was working on. So once thoughts of darkness we need, 1520 01:36:36.479 --> 01:36:43.439 of course again in Belgian. They didn't understand most to 1521 01:36:43.600 --> 01:36:47.119 us about the film made by Belgian looking back, that 1522 01:36:49.239 --> 01:36:55.439 it didn't look quite a maturist. But it was again 1523 01:36:55.920 --> 01:37:00.920 and oh man, that's not exactly and overnight success in 1524 01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:08.119 the United States because that finance the very little Mandyness 1525 01:37:09.039 --> 01:37:13.960 and it came to Palace where also it was the Overnights. 1526 01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:18.720 I couldn't believe it. I thought so was complete and 1527 01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:24.439 that thought of darkness made the huge amount of money. 1528 01:37:24.880 --> 01:37:28.680 Well look it's still now, it's shown all over the 1529 01:37:28.840 --> 01:37:30.880 world people, young people. 1530 01:37:31.399 --> 01:37:31.520 Uh. 1531 01:37:34.239 --> 01:37:38.359 I still con't understand it, but that's the truth. So 1532 01:37:39.439 --> 01:37:42.560 they said, you can do whatever we want. I said, 1533 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:49.439 i'd us with mal Petre Malfetree being issue with the 1534 01:37:49.520 --> 01:37:53.000 French called the three on the steam and the chulp. 1535 01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:56.359 There all thought, oh, he's going to make up but 1536 01:37:56.560 --> 01:38:01.039 taking the option darkness with the same kind of fixtures, 1537 01:38:01.800 --> 01:38:07.560 we will have even more famous actual will do everything. 1538 01:38:08.279 --> 01:38:14.119 We take the best camera man there is terrificial at 1539 01:38:14.159 --> 01:38:19.359 that time, very very good. Jerry reads the screenplay scream Papers, 1540 01:38:19.399 --> 01:38:21.720 sitting at that track, said all I want to do 1541 01:38:21.840 --> 01:38:27.239 it pixel wonderful and at last I can do something 1542 01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:30.920 where I can show really what I do, et cetera. 1543 01:38:32.119 --> 01:38:37.399 I had also the possibility of what who name a 1544 01:38:37.520 --> 01:38:43.319 great director photography of that time in Britain or Simbawi, whoever. 1545 01:38:44.359 --> 01:38:47.720 They all wanted to make. There is the they were there. 1546 01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:52.520 Of course, it's a dream for the cinematter cut Jerry. 1547 01:38:52.840 --> 01:38:56.960 I care actors and everything, and I start to do 1548 01:38:57.119 --> 01:39:02.359 the film and the few things can go wrong because 1549 01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:07.920 when they saw that they didn't see the film. They 1550 01:39:07.960 --> 01:39:12.600 were expected, of course if you were completely different movie 1551 01:39:12.960 --> 01:39:18.000 than Doughters of dou and they started to interfere. They 1552 01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:22.479 sent me, and the United Artists was in Gold, so 1553 01:39:22.880 --> 01:39:27.680 they sent me an editor. I edit my films at 1554 01:39:27.720 --> 01:39:32.840 the same time that I've been there, different called Richard Mark. 1555 01:39:34.119 --> 01:39:37.600 He's probably dead by now, that should have been dead 1556 01:39:37.880 --> 01:39:41.279 by then. It was not the fault of this man. 1557 01:39:41.399 --> 01:39:45.039 He has done a lot of films he destroyed, for instance, 1558 01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:49.880 through the film by Yankee Witch that is one of this. 1559 01:39:50.600 --> 01:39:53.680 If you see that film again and if you want 1560 01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:57.600 to see a film that The Midnight Go Boy he 1561 01:39:57.800 --> 01:40:00.520 also did for which he had an oscar. If you 1562 01:40:00.600 --> 01:40:04.039 didn't on the credit there there you would know that 1563 01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:11.720 officals don't need anything the vertically edit. So but on 1564 01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:16.199 top of that, he couldn't understand. But it's completely beyond 1565 01:40:16.720 --> 01:40:23.319 edu capabilities, not only technical capability, intellectual career. This was 1566 01:40:23.439 --> 01:40:26.600 not the film where somebody comes into a door and 1567 01:40:26.760 --> 01:40:30.279 opens the door. That this people entered doors in a 1568 01:40:30.399 --> 01:40:35.039 different way. In that way. It was well, he didn't understand. 1569 01:40:36.039 --> 01:40:38.600 After one week, I say, getting me rid of that 1570 01:40:38.920 --> 01:40:43.479 director and my abutity we were not the producer, doubt 1571 01:40:45.039 --> 01:40:48.720 there were biggest producer. So no, no, no, no, this 1572 01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:53.039 man has been sent to us by United Artists. We 1573 01:40:53.159 --> 01:40:57.000 can't do that. They will think something is open. Said, 1574 01:40:57.039 --> 01:40:59.680 but he's just anagy to come out, get with jet 1575 01:41:00.039 --> 01:41:04.079 and with it right now. No no, no, no, okay, 1576 01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:08.880 we stayed with that man. It was awful, but disbanded. 1577 01:41:09.520 --> 01:41:17.520 It needed understand and the film went on in digital. 1578 01:41:18.279 --> 01:41:23.079 You can of course flopped, not only because it there 1579 01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:28.479 for the reason that at that time John Camp where 1580 01:41:28.600 --> 01:41:37.520 on Camp with your colleague journalist said, do you really 1581 01:41:37.760 --> 01:41:43.680 think this genre belongs to a Christopher like Camp that 1582 01:41:43.840 --> 01:41:51.560 were be kind? It's un film. It's this immortal question 1583 01:41:52.399 --> 01:41:57.760 has been registered and will enter history. Can you imagine? 1584 01:41:57.920 --> 01:42:01.600 How did you step? But one thing? They were nice? 1585 01:42:01.720 --> 01:42:06.439 The film was no good because it was completely wrongly 1586 01:42:07.319 --> 01:42:14.279 it was. But I had one saving grace. Thism was 1587 01:42:14.520 --> 01:42:19.800 for good parts subcitized by the Famish Ministry of Culture, 1588 01:42:20.479 --> 01:42:24.520 and I was obliged to produce, obliged to do Flemish. 1589 01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:30.880 Well U to the BELVESI and producers let me do 1590 01:42:31.119 --> 01:42:37.159 the Famish version, but re edited completely. But that was 1591 01:42:37.359 --> 01:42:41.079 not just a rage that if it had been simply 1592 01:42:41.439 --> 01:42:47.560 they negative and start all over again, wouldn't have been heeded. No, 1593 01:42:48.239 --> 01:42:54.600 I had to swim between second takes and the ch 1594 01:42:55.159 --> 01:42:58.680 thisim will never be but it could have been, because 1595 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:03.840 even what I did was not what it could have 1596 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:09.079 been if it had been well edited. That it's the 1597 01:43:09.199 --> 01:43:15.840 whole story of that. Fortunately, my films have a tendency 1598 01:43:16.319 --> 01:43:24.000 to survive the time, and with the is it has 1599 01:43:24.399 --> 01:43:29.720 the film as cad of reputation, and now it has 1600 01:43:29.920 --> 01:43:34.680 not the colde status of A Dot of Darkness, which 1601 01:43:34.880 --> 01:43:42.720 is something exceptional. But I don't speak about the quality 1602 01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:46.159 of the film. I speak about the cold status, and 1603 01:43:47.439 --> 01:43:51.600 it is well it has now it's kind of repeative. 1604 01:43:52.159 --> 01:44:01.319 Its reputation will now be underful because you're being union 1605 01:44:02.159 --> 01:44:06.319 uh and very vast. There are hat shoes in it. 1606 01:44:06.560 --> 01:44:11.000 As one of the ten films that they subsidized. To 1607 01:44:11.159 --> 01:44:15.720 be completely restormed was not an easy task because the 1608 01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:23.000 negative has suffered cuit a lot. But we managed. I supervised, 1609 01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:29.319 the may take supervised. The fstorage Outdoors of Darkness is 1610 01:44:29.479 --> 01:44:35.520 rapid than the original. When it is it is all right, 1611 01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:41.239 and it will be shown in Bologna the old film 1612 01:44:41.520 --> 01:44:47.960 historical films. But and then probably and I begin to feely. 1613 01:44:48.680 --> 01:44:54.439 They all begin to say, oh, this very very special 1614 01:44:54.600 --> 01:44:59.000 film that nobody has ever made something like that. They 1615 01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:03.439 begin to make the noises that I know they usually 1616 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:10.399 made my film, and uh, I would prefer they recognize 1617 01:45:10.479 --> 01:45:18.359 them immediately, But that unfortunate, not the case with that's 1618 01:45:18.520 --> 01:45:19.520 the story. 1619 01:45:19.399 --> 01:45:23.920 Of a Just to clarify, why were you not able 1620 01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:27.279 to go back to the original footage when you were 1621 01:45:27.319 --> 01:45:27.800 doing your. 1622 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:33.279 Cut of it, because once soon be made the negative 1623 01:45:33.520 --> 01:45:36.840 it's got. It is not a digital movie is not 1624 01:45:37.119 --> 01:45:43.279 pub but with analog film, with the old negative, it's got. 1625 01:45:43.640 --> 01:45:47.279 So you have to do everything in between. You have 1626 01:45:47.640 --> 01:45:52.720 you have second thanks. You you never in a big film, 1627 01:45:53.119 --> 01:45:57.800 you never shoot one shop. You one take of one shop. 1628 01:45:58.079 --> 01:46:01.399 We should two or three and to be sure on 1629 01:46:02.520 --> 01:46:09.239 different cassettes. That's something probably for you, something out of 1630 01:46:09.840 --> 01:46:14.399 pre history. But we usually so that it would not 1631 01:46:15.079 --> 01:46:19.199 land up in the data if something went on that 1632 01:46:19.720 --> 01:46:23.319 you still had a second take et. So it's a 1633 01:46:23.479 --> 01:46:28.960 film made out of second takes. And in between the 1634 01:46:29.319 --> 01:46:34.239 in between the dates, there are also pieces and it's 1635 01:46:34.279 --> 01:46:37.680 a piece so here now and then I had to 1636 01:46:37.840 --> 01:46:44.640 make a duke of the original editing because I needed 1637 01:46:44.720 --> 01:46:49.199 to shot as it was, or a piece of that short. 1638 01:46:49.880 --> 01:46:55.479 But mostly it was second choice with a second choil, 1639 01:46:55.880 --> 01:46:59.359 so you'd see that. It's the reason if you know 1640 01:46:59.560 --> 01:47:03.239 what a film bits, then you will understand its immediately. 1641 01:47:03.920 --> 01:47:07.159 It is simply that you just the film that has 1642 01:47:07.239 --> 01:47:13.079 been edited. You cannot unedited. That is everything. It is 1643 01:47:13.279 --> 01:47:19.840 a unique material in the undercont bec people. Digital you 1644 01:47:20.119 --> 01:47:25.439 have everything in all the quantities that you want without 1645 01:47:25.560 --> 01:47:33.239 any problem. You can use the original constantly, whereas analog 1646 01:47:33.399 --> 01:47:38.520 film you have only that one piece of negative like 1647 01:47:38.720 --> 01:47:42.319 you may well anybody who want they where nobody and 1648 01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:47.439 involve its anatherog photography. But if you use an adog 1649 01:47:47.560 --> 01:47:54.479 film which film, so you you only have that one piece, 1650 01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:58.600 so you will have to navigate the you in thisy. 1651 01:47:59.079 --> 01:48:02.920 So that's the It's a very simple. If you want 1652 01:48:03.680 --> 01:48:06.119 like the old sy but the syn I used to be, 1653 01:48:07.279 --> 01:48:07.760 then then. 1654 01:48:11.319 --> 01:48:13.640 I forget about the negative cutting part of things, and 1655 01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:18.279 how you just don't have the backups of those anything else. 1656 01:48:18.399 --> 01:48:21.279 That that's like you said, once it's cut. 1657 01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:24.359 Once it's got it cut, but you can't do you 1658 01:48:24.960 --> 01:48:30.720 but then the quality suff You can do the negative 1659 01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:36.199 looks good in that works with a negative in color, 1660 01:48:36.880 --> 01:48:41.239 so and the quality suffers terribly so that you're trying 1661 01:48:41.319 --> 01:48:45.960 to level it. So you you taken choice. When you 1662 01:48:46.640 --> 01:48:52.279 filmed a film on film, you to stop. You took 1663 01:48:52.319 --> 01:48:58.399 a second sort for couples, so that and sometime things 1664 01:48:58.479 --> 01:49:03.520 went along the self. Sometimes they were direct. We did 1665 01:49:03.680 --> 01:49:07.479 eighteen takes of the same shop, and I'm not that 1666 01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:11.760 kind of direct repair for you. I need to be 1667 01:49:11.920 --> 01:49:16.720 one shot. But I couple one and sometimes something went 1668 01:49:16.880 --> 01:49:21.279 from So you had a reserve and we had to 1669 01:49:21.439 --> 01:49:25.760 redream all these speech bits and piece. It was the 1670 01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:32.800 first of You cannot imagine how complex and complicates you 1671 01:49:33.439 --> 01:49:38.880 it could not be got like you got a not 1672 01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:45.920 I must say the results I see within the stipicity 1673 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:52.439 and very proud of technically because it's still with all 1674 01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:58.479 its faults owns together. But it would have hell far 1675 01:49:58.800 --> 01:50:03.079 better together if I had had it for the first time. 1676 01:50:03.479 --> 01:50:07.399 Little and they goes the people of United Artists who 1677 01:50:07.560 --> 01:50:10.760 saw then the first verse and then the second verse, 1678 01:50:11.279 --> 01:50:14.079 the one I get didn't. They came to me and 1679 01:50:14.199 --> 01:50:17.399 they said, but why didn't you call us and say 1680 01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:22.079 you get rid of that the editor? And I said, yeah, 1681 01:50:22.159 --> 01:50:25.840 I can't pack. That's not my character. I cannot behind 1682 01:50:25.920 --> 01:50:31.840 the back of my producers begin to call financiers or 1683 01:50:31.960 --> 01:50:38.000 whatever that you don't that's smally apprehensible and you don't 1684 01:50:38.079 --> 01:50:41.680 do that. I would have done it now because I 1685 01:50:41.880 --> 01:50:45.359 know that that this kind of that. At that time, 1686 01:50:45.399 --> 01:50:49.359 I was pretty young, don't look at and with an 1687 01:50:49.479 --> 01:50:54.479 extremely complicated film to make with the characters. It was 1688 01:50:54.520 --> 01:50:59.760 a complicated to make a film itself. You don't have 1689 01:51:00.239 --> 01:51:03.800 in Belgian, the very best usual, the best assistance in 1690 01:51:03.960 --> 01:51:09.479 the world that date. Unfortunately, I had wonderful director for 1691 01:51:09.600 --> 01:51:12.479 Productyons who they with it. They had a very good 1692 01:51:12.600 --> 01:51:17.199 trade off of it. Also I had a few people 1693 01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:23.079 and I had very very good British technicians for all 1694 01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:29.239 the special effects. So these people helped me during the fruiting. 1695 01:51:29.800 --> 01:51:35.840 They were otherwise, but come cuckoo. It describe the thing 1696 01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:43.039 because it remained Belgian production where the very it's not 1697 01:51:43.319 --> 01:51:47.079 like films that we make today were in commerce. The 1698 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:51.039 cinema is a commercial, smaller film that we made that 1699 01:51:51.960 --> 01:51:57.439 in these times and seeking of the very very long 1700 01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:02.279 time ago I have sent those. That is the reason 1701 01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:07.439 why it is like it is like it. I don't 1702 01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:12.239 understand me only I'm a crowd of what I did 1703 01:52:12.920 --> 01:52:18.600 then with the material I help I think certain me 1704 01:52:18.840 --> 01:52:29.079 during love it holds very well together and it is 1705 01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:35.520 it's the young people you see. It seem to be 1706 01:52:35.800 --> 01:52:41.520 increased because it's different from what if usually seen in 1707 01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:47.279 that song and it have its reputation and I won't 1708 01:52:47.399 --> 01:52:52.800 cry that fact, sure, but it could have been a 1709 01:52:52.920 --> 01:52:57.920 thousand times that I have one of the greatest musicians 1710 01:52:58.359 --> 01:53:04.039 of all time, the cinematical who told me, And I said, 1711 01:53:04.760 --> 01:53:09.039 you know the French, don't. You don't pay French composers. 1712 01:53:09.439 --> 01:53:16.279 He works on authorights the times that film. I told him, Souse, 1713 01:53:16.800 --> 01:53:19.520 you have not earned a lot of money with that, 1714 01:53:19.840 --> 01:53:22.960 you know. And he said to me, listen, Harry, this 1715 01:53:23.239 --> 01:53:25.800 is the best film I ever made. The score for 1716 01:53:26.640 --> 01:53:30.000 this is the best score I have to be the 1717 01:53:30.119 --> 01:53:32.840 best score I ever made. For them, I would have 1718 01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:37.600 redone it and not asked one sup for it. All 1719 01:53:37.720 --> 01:53:42.039 these people who work for it, Jerry and the actors. 1720 01:53:42.640 --> 01:53:46.159 I showed that an actor like he could do far 1721 01:53:46.439 --> 01:53:51.920 more than what she did usually caught television and in 1722 01:53:52.119 --> 01:53:59.359 the British industry and all these things. And I'm not 1723 01:54:00.279 --> 01:54:05.039 this context, but you know it is not the film 1724 01:54:05.800 --> 01:54:10.920 can I sometimes imagine, but it could be. I cannot. 1725 01:54:11.319 --> 01:54:14.640 I cannot because one cannot know that there is something 1726 01:54:15.279 --> 01:54:18.520 It is impossible to know. You cannot know it, you 1727 01:54:18.640 --> 01:54:23.479 cannot even imagine it. And I certainly cannot because of 1728 01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:31.840 it's something which went wrong in organization and should not 1729 01:54:32.039 --> 01:54:36.279 have come home. But I don't complain. I'm a film 1730 01:54:36.720 --> 01:54:44.239 that remains that ows up after so many years. That's 1731 01:54:44.479 --> 01:54:50.119 not the immense success that thoughts of darkness but still 1732 01:54:50.680 --> 01:54:55.520 folds well, So why should I mean? There are not 1733 01:54:55.760 --> 01:55:00.399 many that I can say that, So I while that'll 1734 01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:01.680 be unhappy. 1735 01:55:02.319 --> 01:55:04.880 You mentioned Jerry Fisher. What was it like working with him? 1736 01:55:05.600 --> 01:55:13.760 All fantastic technique, twenty minutes per shot, with total speed imagination. 1737 01:55:14.399 --> 01:55:19.399 He was one of those that the opiece that goes 1738 01:55:19.560 --> 01:55:24.079 through the museum, looks at the light, knows what like this, 1739 01:55:24.680 --> 01:55:29.720 knows what drama is, knows understands the film. The only 1740 01:55:29.920 --> 01:55:34.319 problem I had he knew I was a very good technician, 1741 01:55:35.119 --> 01:55:39.000 and I knew he was a great Dicam photogog. So 1742 01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:45.079 from time to time the shots, we'll see that in 1743 01:55:45.199 --> 01:55:50.760 the shots that kind of it's not not very I wasn't, 1744 01:55:50.800 --> 01:55:55.479 but it was always, Ah, I'm going to invent for 1745 01:55:55.680 --> 01:55:59.199 you something which is so difficult nobody can have resolve it, 1746 01:55:59.479 --> 01:56:06.239 and he do, whereas it's mine. Uh, Whereas I decided, 1747 01:56:07.159 --> 01:56:09.399 uh will you be able to do that? 1748 01:56:10.239 --> 01:56:10.359 Uh? 1749 01:56:10.640 --> 01:56:14.199 And uh and the film surcs a little bit of that, 1750 01:56:14.640 --> 01:56:19.079 a little bit. He had worked with terrible director. Woln't 1751 01:56:19.119 --> 01:56:23.399 be despised. I would not like to be despised by 1752 01:56:23.520 --> 01:56:29.760 Jacked Pish, who had the biggest approgans and u irony, 1753 01:56:30.640 --> 01:56:37.479 which kills people with work. You know, the sister the 1754 01:56:38.760 --> 01:56:42.479 British personty is incredible. When they don't try to people 1755 01:56:44.680 --> 01:56:52.399 like you, you better jump into your grave. But we 1756 01:56:53.199 --> 01:57:00.079 had great respectator uh. He was one one, not of 1757 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:06.000 the technic wonderful artists. But it were no surprise. It 1758 01:57:06.199 --> 01:57:10.560 was all the time, in three times in museums, which 1759 01:57:10.880 --> 01:57:14.520 is the way to learn how to do lights, because 1760 01:57:15.279 --> 01:57:22.479 photography is life, nothing else. And he knew he understood 1761 01:57:22.560 --> 01:57:29.399 the shop and the only thing that was different for 1762 01:57:29.600 --> 01:57:34.960 Daughter of the Darkness that these photogogy called Edit Thunder 1763 01:57:35.039 --> 01:57:40.520 and who was one of the very very best women's 1764 01:57:40.960 --> 01:57:46.960 photography I ever had, probably the best. Women looked fabulous 1765 01:57:47.159 --> 01:57:50.239 and in gortural darkness you can see what I did, 1766 01:57:50.920 --> 01:57:55.720 and they look so fabulous that when we were restoring 1767 01:57:55.840 --> 01:58:01.319 the fill in rome now two years ago, the Italians 1768 01:58:01.560 --> 01:58:05.880 that worked in the last you know sce guys of 1769 01:58:06.039 --> 01:58:09.720 twenty five years came into the room where we were 1770 01:58:09.840 --> 01:58:14.720 to read the story and said, how beautiful in the 1771 01:58:14.760 --> 01:58:19.920 Italian of how beautiful these women are in a film 1772 01:58:20.000 --> 01:58:24.640 of fifty years old, you see, because they look fabulous. 1773 01:58:24.800 --> 01:58:32.279 Now this director being Dutch were very good in sobs 1774 01:58:33.279 --> 01:58:42.359 and faces and not very well adequate but not brilliant 1775 01:58:43.079 --> 01:58:49.760 when it comes to atmosphere, whereas Jerry was only interested 1776 01:58:50.560 --> 01:58:56.239 in atmosphere and women faces. He told me, he said 1777 01:58:56.279 --> 01:58:58.920 to me, it's always the same you put that light 1778 01:58:59.000 --> 01:59:04.199 the sixty degrees mean key, like a nighlight. And that's true. 1779 01:59:05.039 --> 01:59:08.520 It is always the same thing, but it is not 1780 01:59:08.800 --> 01:59:14.319 always safe. And that's that's problem of our business. It 1781 01:59:14.560 --> 01:59:17.359 is the same thing. But if you have got talents, 1782 01:59:18.159 --> 01:59:22.600 it is not the same. You use the elements of 1783 01:59:22.760 --> 01:59:28.960 the technique or that what you add without even sometimes 1784 01:59:29.159 --> 01:59:35.520 knowing what you adds. That's what makes the difference between 1785 01:59:36.720 --> 01:59:41.520 or made by fast what could fool and film made 1786 01:59:41.720 --> 01:59:48.439 by to say too and Bill Bakers when an idiot 1787 01:59:48.960 --> 01:59:56.840 and the other a great artist. So you had that 1788 01:59:57.079 --> 02:00:00.880 one great actnication for that man up to the end 1789 02:00:00.920 --> 02:00:03.399 of his life. When he saw the film again in 1790 02:00:03.520 --> 02:00:06.760 the be a fire we came out, then said in 1791 02:00:06.920 --> 02:00:12.239 his in each very visual passion, Oh well, we didn't 1792 02:00:12.359 --> 02:00:14.479 do too badly there. 1793 02:00:15.560 --> 02:00:15.800 You know. 1794 02:00:19.359 --> 02:00:24.520 Well that we were British are like that and uh, 1795 02:00:24.960 --> 02:00:32.159 and that's it's extreme extremely agreeable to work with English. 1796 02:00:32.840 --> 02:00:41.039 The British technicians and the the artists, uh, the actives 1797 02:00:41.359 --> 02:00:47.840 as well as the technicians. They are so professional, they 1798 02:00:47.880 --> 02:00:54.039 have so little arrogant. Uh, it's it's and they have 1799 02:00:54.319 --> 02:01:00.520 this mentality which very very you've got the exists they 1800 02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:05.880 from the show oil on up to the director. They 1801 02:01:06.119 --> 02:01:12.159 always say ourself, if you understand what I need? And 1802 02:01:13.239 --> 02:01:17.760 they in Belgium, for instance, when I say you have 1803 02:01:17.880 --> 02:01:25.760 to do the adults I very demanding, they said, of course, 1804 02:01:26.319 --> 02:01:32.479 your work so hard. It's your film. That's Belgium. And 1805 02:01:33.119 --> 02:01:40.199 often also the American mentors, oh, look it's the world. 1806 02:01:40.319 --> 02:01:45.720 Can we go from one? Pay? Never? The British technician 1807 02:01:46.279 --> 02:01:50.840 has that mentality. They always are proud of their work 1808 02:01:51.760 --> 02:01:55.800 and proud of the work they are working on, and 1809 02:01:56.159 --> 02:02:01.119 that is a pleasure. I don't know it's still like that, 1810 02:02:02.199 --> 02:02:05.960 but I think so. It's in their mentality and U 1811 02:02:06.840 --> 02:02:10.960 that they will all the British will always be in 1812 02:02:11.159 --> 02:02:19.680 the because they have the strength of character and of knowledge. 1813 02:02:20.600 --> 02:02:26.680 They and you get it hands the strollbacks, the the greateishness, 1814 02:02:27.279 --> 02:02:31.039 and you can see that in some of their better 1815 02:02:31.239 --> 02:02:35.199 films that are not so good and in the bad starts. 1816 02:02:36.479 --> 02:02:41.680 The great directors they be clean, but in the lesser parts, 1817 02:02:42.640 --> 02:02:51.520 say compare Ryan's Daughter, two Lords of Creatia, once of Raadia, 1818 02:02:51.640 --> 02:03:00.199 big piece of coms u uh. This perfection and it's 1819 02:03:00.359 --> 02:03:09.319 self locker can sometimes make them blind for deficiencies in 1820 02:03:10.279 --> 02:03:15.279 the setup of the whole dractic. This is the problem 1821 02:03:15.840 --> 02:03:19.439 because they are so they are not upsetted by techniques 1822 02:03:19.560 --> 02:03:23.079 like the Jones what do you of Google? Some to 1823 02:03:23.159 --> 02:03:27.960 go gaga because they don't want everything must be see 1824 02:03:28.039 --> 02:03:33.960 the ten the really to use the whip there to 1825 02:03:34.399 --> 02:03:40.279 get something done, and that it's outside their capabilities. But 1826 02:03:40.640 --> 02:03:45.279 the British someone but I'm not the only director, but 1827 02:03:45.760 --> 02:03:49.920 all people have work the greatest say the same thing. 1828 02:03:50.680 --> 02:03:52.000 So it's nothing. 1829 02:03:53.119 --> 02:03:55.960 May tell me about about your cast. It's such a 1830 02:03:56.119 --> 02:03:57.800 great collection of different actors. 1831 02:03:58.640 --> 02:04:01.760 Let's start with ousman. While that was just to call 1832 02:04:02.119 --> 02:04:04.760 the man that not a lot to do. He said, 1833 02:04:05.000 --> 02:04:08.760 I cost so much to day and I added so nothing. 1834 02:04:08.840 --> 02:04:14.880 Spect he liked the parts because actually like parts where 1835 02:04:15.079 --> 02:04:22.520 they die, actually love they dying, so cized though moment 1836 02:04:23.439 --> 02:04:29.239 on the stake under then he was a dreadful man, saying, 1837 02:04:30.920 --> 02:04:35.880 no respectful, it's the actors that was the worst part. 1838 02:04:38.039 --> 02:04:44.840 But he was at the end of this he completely 1839 02:04:45.119 --> 02:04:54.239 didn't understand cinema anymore. It was very tragic, and in 1840 02:04:54.439 --> 02:04:59.119 fact he had always been the great produced, putting people together. 1841 02:05:00.239 --> 02:05:06.560 His great look sick. But I have my doubts about 1842 02:05:06.640 --> 02:05:11.800 other things. But he couldn't have. I had two and 1843 02:05:12.039 --> 02:05:16.039 to give you an example, had three three possibilities ofs 1844 02:05:16.119 --> 02:05:21.920 and Wells, John Houston or Peter Houstiner to play that 1845 02:05:22.119 --> 02:05:28.000 part that could be called corking. Then this was an 1846 02:05:28.039 --> 02:05:31.640 international co production, so we had to pick up people 1847 02:05:32.279 --> 02:05:38.680 from various countries. My first choice for the acting part 1848 02:05:39.399 --> 02:05:45.960 that Susan did very well was Caprin Diener through did 1849 02:05:46.000 --> 02:05:51.239 you see because Catherine. I don't speak about the quality 1850 02:05:51.319 --> 02:05:58.600 of actors. I speak about the aspect. Catherine at something extraordinary. 1851 02:05:59.399 --> 02:06:03.359 She has a blank face. She had a brand face. 1852 02:06:04.960 --> 02:06:09.319 That phase you could fill up with everything. She was 1853 02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:15.560 not the greatest intelligence, intelligent tactics towards not Defini, sharing 1854 02:06:15.760 --> 02:06:19.720 whatever not the gheman sing array or that guy no no, 1855 02:06:19.840 --> 02:06:24.199 no no, but a face. You could do anything with it. 1856 02:06:24.640 --> 02:06:30.319 And that was ideal for they do exact five parts. 1857 02:06:30.399 --> 02:06:36.319 But see the unfortunately the idiotic produced. I had that 1858 02:06:36.479 --> 02:06:41.239 that guy and arranged from her to see those of 1859 02:06:41.399 --> 02:06:47.159 doctness in the cinema, no problem, but without telling me 1860 02:06:48.079 --> 02:06:50.960 you have to come to that cinema at that time. 1861 02:06:51.800 --> 02:06:59.760 This in the cinema. Unfortunately they outstand and Catherine had 1862 02:07:00.439 --> 02:07:06.560 come from a suit suit somewhere and was not made up. 1863 02:07:07.279 --> 02:07:11.800 And she's the kind of a pursume who needs to 1864 02:07:11.960 --> 02:07:17.199 have their mask, you see. And she comes out and 1865 02:07:18.359 --> 02:07:22.720 and presented to her as the director and the matter 1866 02:07:23.279 --> 02:07:27.239 was over. She didn't talk to do the fill you understand, 1867 02:07:27.920 --> 02:07:34.920 because she had been tracked and need too and that right. 1868 02:07:35.199 --> 02:07:39.199 So somebody said, oh, I know I need to fill 1869 02:07:39.840 --> 02:07:43.680 and strect with let's married at the time. What would 1870 02:07:43.720 --> 02:07:46.960 you think of a suit and hand seem as a 1871 02:07:47.119 --> 02:07:53.000 which no, which is not exactly like that. She'd be part. 1872 02:07:53.119 --> 02:07:56.760 But she's very good. And they said to me, oh, 1873 02:07:57.560 --> 02:08:02.279 we had the greatest of the that makeup man of 1874 02:08:04.159 --> 02:08:08.319 the Brittany who used to be the makeup man of 1875 02:08:08.600 --> 02:08:16.199 Ingridman afgt. It set a um and he will manage 1876 02:08:16.600 --> 02:08:21.399 and which he did extraordinarily well. So I had general 1877 02:08:21.520 --> 02:08:26.079 government and susan action. So that for a second, and 1878 02:08:26.560 --> 02:08:30.199 I wanted to work because of you. In school group example, 1879 02:08:30.800 --> 02:08:36.439 Miche greatest French actors at the time still is in 1880 02:08:36.600 --> 02:08:41.600 my eyes along with us, and we said were perfect 1881 02:08:41.720 --> 02:08:46.720 for the past. On the other hand, and I said, oh, 1882 02:08:46.840 --> 02:08:51.119 I loved that to work with not your No, I 1883 02:08:51.239 --> 02:08:55.520 need French actors and loved to work with not you said, 1884 02:08:56.359 --> 02:09:02.960 And since he s there with plays comedies, I'll do 1885 02:09:03.199 --> 02:09:07.560 a counter effect with him and do something completely different. 1886 02:09:08.680 --> 02:09:12.000 This is that to do with my screen id. We 1887 02:09:12.199 --> 02:09:19.399 love that character based and which comes directly out of 1888 02:09:19.840 --> 02:09:24.760 the novel as such, And that was the biggest error 1889 02:09:24.960 --> 02:09:29.880 I could have made, not yet yet, but as you know, 1890 02:09:30.520 --> 02:09:37.359 and I've seen the film, all these characters are simple, 1891 02:09:39.000 --> 02:09:48.039 the burgers an inside there are gods, okay, and I 1892 02:09:48.439 --> 02:09:53.159 instead of making a strange character out of Jean Pierre, 1893 02:09:54.079 --> 02:09:59.319 I should have made him the concerns of that huge house. 1894 02:10:00.319 --> 02:10:04.479 What is about these lights going out? You see? That's 1895 02:10:04.560 --> 02:10:09.600 what's the immense error of my life, and which I 1896 02:10:09.720 --> 02:10:14.359 will approach to myself, because the young guy who read 1897 02:10:14.399 --> 02:10:19.239 the strict play had already told me before and that 1898 02:10:19.479 --> 02:10:23.920 is wrong, and you never believe somebody who says that. 1899 02:10:25.399 --> 02:10:28.439 Here great difficulty too, but it's something on which you 1900 02:10:28.720 --> 02:10:33.279 were a long time, which was this case strip all 1901 02:10:33.359 --> 02:10:37.359 the other actors simply Vata I wanted to use because 1902 02:10:37.439 --> 02:10:39.880 I do want to tell in fact, to play the 1903 02:10:39.960 --> 02:10:46.119 young girl in Dods of Darkness, so see that she 1904 02:10:46.760 --> 02:10:52.359 would have been better a time than that Canadian Canadian woman. 1905 02:10:53.319 --> 02:10:59.199 And the rest yes, all Flemish, all pay music facts 1906 02:11:00.359 --> 02:11:06.239 which we don't know good and and that one of 1907 02:11:06.399 --> 02:11:14.840 them being out a comedian who played the non lumpy 1908 02:11:15.199 --> 02:11:22.960 and he was there. All these people with the Flemish 1909 02:11:23.039 --> 02:11:28.319 people were wonderful, uh reason, the more that the attitude 1910 02:11:28.479 --> 02:11:35.800 of mister Wells towards them was apprehensible. Even the story 1911 02:11:35.960 --> 02:11:40.039 the scene with Michael Bouquet in both at this big 1912 02:11:40.199 --> 02:11:43.720 scene and there's a comedy scene and in the middle 1913 02:11:43.760 --> 02:11:48.199 of the scene awesome stuffs to learn. He had said 1914 02:11:48.399 --> 02:11:51.600 to me before do you use a close up in 1915 02:11:51.680 --> 02:11:53.399 that scene? I said, no, no, no, of of sudden, 1916 02:11:53.399 --> 02:11:57.600 it's a comedy scene. We've been a medium soft and 1917 02:11:57.880 --> 02:12:01.399 we stay on the scene like it is. And Awsen 1918 02:12:01.760 --> 02:12:04.680 did not like that. And in the middle of the scene, 1919 02:12:04.760 --> 02:12:11.399 which a white comical scene, Michelle at very else, very 1920 02:12:11.680 --> 02:12:16.840 very well and also started to laugh. So we redo 1921 02:12:17.039 --> 02:12:21.000 the scene. And he always started to laugh at the 1922 02:12:21.119 --> 02:12:27.560 same book so we had an Jerry behind me on 1923 02:12:27.680 --> 02:12:32.199 the camera set. Give the bust if girts up, otherwise 1924 02:12:32.439 --> 02:12:36.079 will be still be here to borrow. This gives you 1925 02:12:36.239 --> 02:12:42.319 an idea of whom, as we else, was very dreadful person. 1926 02:12:43.159 --> 02:12:46.520 But it happens, and if he wouldn't have been there, 1927 02:12:47.000 --> 02:12:52.520 it wouldn't have been the same. People suffered more than 1928 02:12:52.560 --> 02:13:00.319 I have suffered with Marilyne Monroe. So did it nothing? 1929 02:13:00.439 --> 02:13:04.039 That seems each kind of thing, that's it? 1930 02:13:04.239 --> 02:13:08.720 What else do you I'm very curious about the retitling 1931 02:13:09.039 --> 02:13:11.399 for I imagine it's just for the United States the 1932 02:13:11.560 --> 02:13:15.560 legend of Doomhouse. Was it really released under that title? 1933 02:13:16.279 --> 02:13:19.560 I think I think that was the sep type of 1934 02:13:20.520 --> 02:13:26.800 one of the pocket editions of the novel. It's written 1935 02:13:26.840 --> 02:13:33.039 named fran in chaos in this trial the Amazon anty 1936 02:13:33.279 --> 02:13:39.279 in the it's you go, it's like coumpty, it's wonted 1937 02:13:39.479 --> 02:13:46.560 howls and that's that's that must be? That is and no, 1938 02:13:47.000 --> 02:13:47.560 no nothing. 1939 02:13:48.600 --> 02:13:52.279 Ultimately, how was the movie received? I you mentioned it 1940 02:13:52.359 --> 02:13:55.800 playing at Cohn, you mentioned your Flemish adit of it. 1941 02:13:56.520 --> 02:13:59.640 How did they play for audiences in Knetre. 1942 02:14:00.119 --> 02:14:06.079 That's because on the one hand, the critics could not 1943 02:14:06.279 --> 02:14:09.279 understand this kind of How could this kind of film 1944 02:14:09.520 --> 02:14:14.399 be showning down? That would never be the case in 1945 02:14:14.560 --> 02:14:19.560 our time could but that was the case in that time. 1946 02:14:21.479 --> 02:14:27.960 It was not very received, not at all. When I 1947 02:14:28.319 --> 02:14:35.760 had read on the film, there was of course revalidation, 1948 02:14:37.000 --> 02:14:44.119 but still it never it never reached the eyes that 1949 02:14:44.359 --> 02:14:48.239 Dogs of Darkness had, which I understand. 1950 02:14:49.279 --> 02:14:49.439 Uh. 1951 02:14:50.319 --> 02:14:54.239 I still believe that if I edited it from the 1952 02:14:54.439 --> 02:15:01.840 first time, it would have probably not had that kind 1953 02:15:01.880 --> 02:15:08.399 of success millions, such huge screenings and so on. But 1954 02:15:08.600 --> 02:15:15.560 with the years now it has. When you look on nowadays, 1955 02:15:16.159 --> 02:15:22.079 the barylmeter for such things is internet. Of course, it 1956 02:15:22.319 --> 02:15:27.079 has its own reputation, I think, because it is such 1957 02:15:27.119 --> 02:15:33.000 a bizarre more than olders. And that's it. Oh yes, 1958 02:15:33.239 --> 02:15:41.760 there's one one act, of course, the main actor mature career. Also, 1959 02:15:42.199 --> 02:15:47.079 it does it stop very well. I think I made 1960 02:15:47.119 --> 02:15:52.000 an error in this sense in my mind, because it 1961 02:15:52.119 --> 02:15:56.000 took a long time before we made that, for three years. 1962 02:15:56.560 --> 02:16:00.720 Don't forget. I had seen him in one wonderful film 1963 02:16:02.199 --> 02:16:13.279 by called The Us the Humorist by Vocus Brindle, very much, 1964 02:16:13.479 --> 02:16:19.279 very young, and in my mind he had stayed that boy. 1965 02:16:20.279 --> 02:16:24.039 And I think it's a little too old for the part, 1966 02:16:24.800 --> 02:16:29.720 but for the rest. But these are small things that 1967 02:16:31.680 --> 02:16:37.000 in every film has a problem in my store, and 1968 02:16:37.200 --> 02:16:43.399 it's a new film. The woman is an horror but 1969 02:16:43.559 --> 02:16:46.520 she can't help. She's very compactive, but I think she's 1970 02:16:47.200 --> 02:16:53.040 she's n for the part. You know, some things happen, 1971 02:16:54.079 --> 02:17:00.520 And who can explain that both the Caprio and about 1972 02:17:00.520 --> 02:17:05.879 the Negro, who are such superb actors, are so awful 1973 02:17:06.399 --> 02:17:11.200 in that Moon movie by scored the last thing that's complete. 1974 02:17:11.520 --> 02:17:16.520 Nobody understands how how can a DiCaprio be so bad? 1975 02:17:17.000 --> 02:17:23.120 I mean that, And it's not because coss my age. 1976 02:17:24.440 --> 02:17:29.200 He's still the very great directory is its simply you know, 1977 02:17:29.399 --> 02:17:34.959 it happens. It happens with films. Things happen that are 1978 02:17:35.079 --> 02:17:42.200 INCOMPREHENSI and that is that is, that's the right, because 1979 02:17:42.520 --> 02:17:47.280 if we knew, we would be living or in huge 1980 02:17:47.479 --> 02:17:54.159 castles with hundreds of retainers and that kind of thing. 1981 02:17:54.600 --> 02:18:01.040 Nobody knows that Goldman who said that there, well, nobody 1982 02:18:01.200 --> 02:18:07.120 knows anything. This is still the great truths about cinema. 1983 02:18:07.600 --> 02:18:12.479 Man does not understand. I cannot understand for that in general, 1984 02:18:12.600 --> 02:18:17.239 that film is very the tring of the wound. It 1985 02:18:17.479 --> 02:18:22.280 is Indian thing. But apart from that, you cannot understand 1986 02:18:22.680 --> 02:18:28.120 how such great, great actual gets me so terrible. And 1987 02:18:29.159 --> 02:18:34.280 it happens. It happens, and it is not the question 1988 02:18:34.440 --> 02:18:39.280 of approach. It's not a question of source. One cannot understand. 1989 02:18:39.399 --> 02:18:44.520 I have no national explanation for strange things that happen 1990 02:18:44.680 --> 02:18:48.200 in the cinema. Man can find you have a reason, 1991 02:18:48.440 --> 02:18:50.680 like I explained to you that I told you that 1992 02:18:51.280 --> 02:18:54.719 about the match, your career being a little bit too old, 1993 02:18:55.639 --> 02:19:00.200 or so Captain the nor who would have probably he'd 1994 02:19:00.280 --> 02:19:05.879 been more interested, not better, but more in certainly not 1995 02:19:06.000 --> 02:19:14.600 as an act, but more interesting visually than Susan that 1996 02:19:14.760 --> 02:19:18.440 kind of thing. But can explain I can explain why 1997 02:19:18.959 --> 02:19:24.920 in Dads of Darkness Canadian actresses because she was incapable 1998 02:19:25.000 --> 02:19:29.079 of acting whatever I did. But I edited that movie, 1999 02:19:29.520 --> 02:19:34.719 and therefore I could arrange things, and why the male 2000 02:19:35.360 --> 02:19:38.200 and John Garland, but also to all he had been 2001 02:19:38.280 --> 02:19:43.639 presented to me on photo has been twenty twenty years 2002 02:19:43.799 --> 02:19:47.520 younger than he was. They did so that were the 2003 02:19:47.600 --> 02:19:51.000 American people who wanted him because he had played the 2004 02:19:51.079 --> 02:19:54.639 film in the House of dark Sadders and they said, ah, 2005 02:19:54.799 --> 02:19:57.799 if he had played that he could play that. You know, 2006 02:19:58.040 --> 02:20:03.920 our producers hard to the bass is very amusing out 2007 02:20:03.920 --> 02:20:10.000 anecdotes that I wanted that I get told you Silvis 2008 02:20:10.079 --> 02:20:16.120 for that part that the Canadian idiot did. But I 2009 02:20:16.360 --> 02:20:21.639 had also I had thought of Malcolm McDowell. I don't 2010 02:20:21.639 --> 02:20:25.639 know them. I am tells you something. An English actor 2011 02:20:27.079 --> 02:20:32.479 for the part English aristotra. He read the escape and 2012 02:20:32.680 --> 02:20:37.600 threw it literally my head and set and I won't 2013 02:20:37.760 --> 02:20:47.239 do such phonography, okay, chack. Six months later he did Caligula. 2014 02:20:48.120 --> 02:20:54.319 Now this must explain to you what actors are. And 2015 02:20:54.639 --> 02:21:02.040 this can be translict into the very simple sentence, never 2016 02:21:02.520 --> 02:21:07.680 believe that that's it, and there that's it. They are actor, 2017 02:21:08.280 --> 02:21:10.360 they're acting. They can't help it. 2018 02:21:10.920 --> 02:21:11.680 It is it is. 2019 02:21:11.879 --> 02:21:17.440 It does not diminish their capability nor their talent. No 2020 02:21:17.639 --> 02:21:25.520 nothing that if the extraordinary sentence nobody, no senity applies 2021 02:21:25.680 --> 02:21:31.360 to somebody that's two active, it happens. You know, it's not. 2022 02:21:31.879 --> 02:21:41.840 It's an art. It is not uh science and even science. No, 2023 02:21:42.000 --> 02:21:46.440 it's not, because it can be used to want to 2024 02:21:46.680 --> 02:21:56.159 make a niche. But for the restive, absolutely incomprehensible wise, 2025 02:21:56.520 --> 02:22:03.079 things go well and by things go. That's true. How 2026 02:22:03.079 --> 02:22:03.440 about you? 2027 02:22:03.520 --> 02:22:04.840 What are you working on these days? 2028 02:22:04.920 --> 02:22:08.040 Or what are you up to? I have an idea 2029 02:22:08.319 --> 02:22:16.200 for a French biography of a famous French songstress who 2030 02:22:16.399 --> 02:22:21.360 was the kind of how should I say, influences of 2031 02:22:21.520 --> 02:22:26.479 her time in the thirties, twas and fifties, called susici holidos. 2032 02:22:26.639 --> 02:22:31.959 You won't know her. Her thing was that she has 2033 02:22:32.159 --> 02:22:39.920 been painted two hundred forty times by the most among them, 2034 02:22:40.200 --> 02:22:45.600 the most famous painted the twenties thirties of her time 2035 02:22:46.239 --> 02:22:51.959 two hundred and her cabaret. She had her own cabaret 2036 02:22:52.000 --> 02:23:00.120 in Paris, but hung full of those paintings, and that 2037 02:23:00.760 --> 02:23:05.040 is one of our of And she was a great singer. 2038 02:23:05.440 --> 02:23:11.399 She sound only about about sailors and the sea, etetera. 2039 02:23:11.760 --> 02:23:19.440 But what she did was maybe. And the interesting part 2040 02:23:19.520 --> 02:23:24.920 of her is she was the lesbian of all lesbians, 2041 02:23:25.760 --> 02:23:30.959 but loved one man and not a little loved so 2042 02:23:31.920 --> 02:23:38.040 she He was the most famous and most handsome French 2043 02:23:38.959 --> 02:23:44.639 pilots of his time, who was killed during One of 2044 02:23:44.760 --> 02:23:50.159 his friends called you won't can know him, but all 2045 02:23:50.280 --> 02:23:53.399 the French many you know. It's so well known that 2046 02:23:53.639 --> 02:23:56.239 many schools are named after him, and that kind of 2047 02:23:56.280 --> 02:24:02.799 fire that makes it extremely interesting. She knew everybody. She 2048 02:24:03.120 --> 02:24:08.040 was what nowadays would be called an influence. She dressed 2049 02:24:08.959 --> 02:24:15.799 that ambulish body, or great photographies like Manree photographed on 2050 02:24:15.920 --> 02:24:23.280 all sides, the chacot, that name a great French artist 2051 02:24:24.120 --> 02:24:29.879 and she is set about with it. So she was 2052 02:24:30.079 --> 02:24:35.559 very important. The anything that produced us me who will 2053 02:24:35.719 --> 02:24:40.840 we choose to play that part? And that's the big problem. 2054 02:24:41.360 --> 02:24:48.280 But you will find that that is not and the 2055 02:24:48.520 --> 02:24:56.159 biographies now something that is considered as being a good 2056 02:24:56.239 --> 02:25:01.920 commercial bed. So I I hope that I will be 2057 02:25:02.079 --> 02:25:06.719 able to make it. It is not a horribly expensive film, 2058 02:25:07.639 --> 02:25:12.120 but of course it's a costume would be and uh oh, 2059 02:25:13.079 --> 02:25:17.159 I think that she did one everything and a very 2060 02:25:17.319 --> 02:25:24.600 very great artist and very very very interesting. The sexual 2061 02:25:24.840 --> 02:25:31.000 path is interesting. They'll have to like itself with interesting 2062 02:25:32.079 --> 02:25:38.040 obsession with her art. She she considered herself a great artist. 2063 02:25:38.159 --> 02:25:42.440 That she was also somebody who did not only sing, 2064 02:25:42.680 --> 02:25:50.239 she recited poems in her cabaret and knew everybody. Uh 2065 02:25:50.399 --> 02:25:58.360 and that's it's it's a kind of review a biography. 2066 02:25:59.040 --> 02:26:04.399 It's a bioa with that exception that most biography of 2067 02:26:04.600 --> 02:26:10.000 flashbacks and did so it's chronological because I detest backs 2068 02:26:10.120 --> 02:26:14.200 and that shit the dirty. 2069 02:26:15.600 --> 02:26:18.799 That's what I'm besit with, mister Koumel. Thank you so 2070 02:26:19.040 --> 02:26:21.120 much for your time. This has been so great talking 2071 02:26:21.200 --> 02:26:21.360 with you. 2072 02:26:22.399 --> 02:26:25.399 Well that's very if you have to believe it. I'm 2073 02:26:25.479 --> 02:26:28.639 happy to thank you very much. Bye bye. 2074 02:26:32.920 --> 02:26:34.559 All right, we are back and we were talking about 2075 02:26:34.600 --> 02:26:38.959 melput tweet and like I said, the director's cut is 2076 02:26:39.159 --> 02:26:42.399 the second version of this that I saw. I watched 2077 02:26:42.479 --> 02:26:46.520 the theatrical version at first, and I think I need 2078 02:26:46.600 --> 02:26:49.559 to watch probably both of them a few more times 2079 02:26:49.799 --> 02:26:53.440 just to see more of the differences. But we've talked 2080 02:26:53.479 --> 02:26:57.120 about how labyrinthine this story is literally at times, but 2081 02:26:57.959 --> 02:27:00.440 the longer version definitely gives me a lot more to 2082 02:27:00.600 --> 02:27:03.879 chew on and is much more of a satisfying watch. 2083 02:27:04.040 --> 02:27:06.559 Like I said, the only thing that I'm missing is 2084 02:27:07.559 --> 02:27:10.479 Orson Wells's voice, and Matthew doesn't sound like you even 2085 02:27:10.520 --> 02:27:10.840 miss that. 2086 02:27:11.760 --> 02:27:15.000 I think he kind of mumbles his way through the 2087 02:27:15.079 --> 02:27:18.159 role a little bit, and so I think, yeah, it 2088 02:27:18.280 --> 02:27:21.280 was a feature of his vocal performance in those years. 2089 02:27:21.479 --> 02:27:24.120 I don't quite know what to say about why he 2090 02:27:24.319 --> 02:27:28.479 was doing things that way, but yeah, I don't have 2091 02:27:28.600 --> 02:27:32.280 too much of a problem watching this film in Flemish. 2092 02:27:32.479 --> 02:27:36.120 I think, despite the fact that most of the main 2093 02:27:36.239 --> 02:27:39.719 characters were speaking English, well Yan and Nancy are speaking 2094 02:27:39.760 --> 02:27:43.079 English as orson Wells and I guess some of the 2095 02:27:43.159 --> 02:27:46.159 other actors were speaking French. But in a way, this 2096 02:27:46.360 --> 02:27:48.799 is like the Italian approach to making a movie, where 2097 02:27:48.799 --> 02:27:51.239 you can const actors from all over the world with 2098 02:27:51.399 --> 02:27:56.479 different languages doing scenes it seems, in their respective languages, 2099 02:27:56.719 --> 02:28:00.680 and then being dubbed into one consistent language at the end. 2100 02:28:01.159 --> 02:28:04.280 So we watch a lot of domes from the same period, 2101 02:28:04.360 --> 02:28:07.559 you get very used to this type of the multi 2102 02:28:07.680 --> 02:28:08.520 lingual approach. 2103 02:28:09.399 --> 02:28:13.799 I've always been a fan more over the last two 2104 02:28:13.959 --> 02:28:18.600 decades of the use of dubbing in European films, and 2105 02:28:18.879 --> 02:28:22.639 just that the dubbing always, for me anyway, feels like 2106 02:28:22.760 --> 02:28:25.360 it adds a little bit of a layer of disconnect, 2107 02:28:25.600 --> 02:28:28.559 that you can tell that people aren't saying what they're 2108 02:28:28.600 --> 02:28:31.559 actually saying, and that makes it even stranger for me. 2109 02:28:31.760 --> 02:28:36.120 So watching a film that deals with the fantastique, seeing 2110 02:28:36.200 --> 02:28:40.479 that dubbed, I think that actually adds another aspect to it, 2111 02:28:40.719 --> 02:28:44.120 which I really like. So watching those shallow films, watching 2112 02:28:44.479 --> 02:28:47.280 more of the horror films and things, it's just, oh, yeah, 2113 02:28:47.399 --> 02:28:50.440 this makes it even stranger because it feels like the 2114 02:28:50.600 --> 02:28:53.920 voices aren't matched up perfectly with the faces. 2115 02:28:54.719 --> 02:28:57.479 Yeah, it's like a disassociation kind of thing that adds 2116 02:28:57.559 --> 02:29:01.879 to the sort of uncomfortable uncanniness of a lot of 2117 02:29:01.920 --> 02:29:05.479 the films of this are especially horror and fantastic. And yes, 2118 02:29:05.600 --> 02:29:07.840 I would understand that for a first time watcher. And 2119 02:29:07.920 --> 02:29:09.920 I'm sure the first time I saw like a sort 2120 02:29:09.920 --> 02:29:13.680 of European dubbed film where actors are not the lip 2121 02:29:13.760 --> 02:29:15.840 movements aren't matching up, it was probably I'm sure I 2122 02:29:15.959 --> 02:29:19.360 was very disoriented too. But isn't a quiet taste, And 2123 02:29:19.719 --> 02:29:21.719 once you're able to get on board with that, I 2124 02:29:21.799 --> 02:29:25.479 think you benefit from that quality that the dubbing hads. 2125 02:29:26.239 --> 02:29:29.959 I have to recommend. I saw a really nice documentary 2126 02:29:30.200 --> 02:29:35.239 called Forgotten Scares, which deals a lot with Belgian horror films. 2127 02:29:35.479 --> 02:29:37.840 I think it's called Forgotten Scares and in depth look 2128 02:29:37.920 --> 02:29:41.719 at Flemish horror cinema. It was from twenty seventeen. There's 2129 02:29:41.760 --> 02:29:44.760 a lot of discussion of kumal In there, as well 2130 02:29:44.799 --> 02:29:48.159 as some of the other Flemish filmmakers that were his 2131 02:29:48.319 --> 02:29:51.120 contemporaries and even some of the newer folks that have 2132 02:29:51.200 --> 02:29:55.959 been working over the last couple decades. I really thought 2133 02:29:56.000 --> 02:29:58.799 that was great. It was so nice to get so specific, 2134 02:29:58.959 --> 02:30:01.799 to look at just Flemish horror. I'm like, is there 2135 02:30:02.000 --> 02:30:05.680 enough to sustain a documentary on Flemish? Yes, yes there is. 2136 02:30:05.879 --> 02:30:09.799 It's more than just Daughters of Darkness Malpertwee and then 2137 02:30:10.079 --> 02:30:12.280 say this with red teeth. There is a lot of 2138 02:30:12.639 --> 02:30:15.719 good films being made at this time, and I find 2139 02:30:15.760 --> 02:30:20.079 these fascinating. I'm really curious to get into more, and 2140 02:30:20.200 --> 02:30:22.319 I love to hear that there's actually that what did 2141 02:30:22.399 --> 02:30:26.319 you call it before, Jessica, the Belgian belgitude belgiitude. Yes, 2142 02:30:26.440 --> 02:30:29.760 I'm curious to see, yeah, films that express belgitude. 2143 02:30:30.159 --> 02:30:33.639 I think that while the Belgian film industry itself and 2144 02:30:33.920 --> 02:30:37.200 documentary is absolutely wonderful, it's such a I actually came 2145 02:30:37.280 --> 02:30:39.600 across it as an extra on I think it was 2146 02:30:39.920 --> 02:30:43.319 Rabid Granny's some sort of. It was a nineties Belgian 2147 02:30:43.319 --> 02:30:45.200 horror film, and so it was really great to watch 2148 02:30:45.239 --> 02:30:48.719 because they do talk about Anti Coumal a lot at 2149 02:30:48.760 --> 02:30:51.680 the beginning. But like I said, even though there isn't 2150 02:30:51.719 --> 02:30:55.399 a sort of ground tradition of Belgian cinema, such as 2151 02:30:55.440 --> 02:30:58.920 there is in France or Germany or Italy. I think 2152 02:30:59.319 --> 02:31:02.719 the lineage that sort of leads up to films like 2153 02:31:03.440 --> 02:31:06.520 malper Twee. There's another sort of director in the surrealist 2154 02:31:06.559 --> 02:31:10.440 tradition that came slightly before Camel called Andrea Delvo I believe, 2155 02:31:10.719 --> 02:31:12.760 who worked up in starting in the fifties, and I 2156 02:31:12.799 --> 02:31:15.719 think up until the eighties. Rather, I think this sort 2157 02:31:15.760 --> 02:31:21.079 of lineage of weirdness in our like they're surrealist roots, 2158 02:31:21.319 --> 02:31:25.200 and prior to that, even the symbolist roots, because Belgian symbolism, 2159 02:31:25.280 --> 02:31:29.159 which was a sort of precursor to Belgian or surrealism 2160 02:31:29.200 --> 02:31:35.200 in general, is a weird, uncanny, strange, horrific images and 2161 02:31:35.719 --> 02:31:39.399 channeling historical references. So I think, all in again, it's 2162 02:31:39.440 --> 02:31:41.479 and I see it as part of the Belgian psyche. 2163 02:31:41.680 --> 02:31:43.639 It's just and though there may have not been as 2164 02:31:43.840 --> 02:31:47.000 much opportunity for the Belgian cinema to thrive in a 2165 02:31:47.040 --> 02:31:49.959 way that it might in a larger country, I think 2166 02:31:50.079 --> 02:31:53.040 that because they had this rich lineage that like once 2167 02:31:53.760 --> 02:31:56.440 there started to be a tradition of Belgian films, albeit 2168 02:31:56.520 --> 02:32:00.559 a bit later than other countries that it's They're very dynamic, 2169 02:32:00.680 --> 02:32:03.799 they have their own character, and that's for me. I 2170 02:32:03.879 --> 02:32:05.159 feel like that where that comes from. 2171 02:32:05.399 --> 02:32:08.680 I would almost be curious to compare Swiss films to 2172 02:32:08.959 --> 02:32:11.600 Belgian films, just because we talked a little bit earlier 2173 02:32:11.680 --> 02:32:15.840 this year about the Unknown Man from Shandigor and just 2174 02:32:15.959 --> 02:32:20.319 that Switzerland is in that weird position like Belgium is, 2175 02:32:20.479 --> 02:32:24.559 where it's all of these different languages, all of these 2176 02:32:24.600 --> 02:32:28.639 different cultures all coming together in one place. I would 2177 02:32:28.680 --> 02:32:31.680 be curious to know if there are crossovers between that, 2178 02:32:32.000 --> 02:32:36.040 just with that kind of fragmented, almost fragmented psyche that 2179 02:32:36.159 --> 02:32:39.840 they have. And I love I've only been to Belgium once, 2180 02:32:39.959 --> 02:32:42.200 but I really enjoyed it. Thought it was great. I 2181 02:32:42.319 --> 02:32:44.840 loved ant Orp, and I love this whole idea of 2182 02:32:45.159 --> 02:32:48.840 the two cultures living together and just that everything had 2183 02:32:48.879 --> 02:32:51.639 to be in multiple languages. It was a little bit 2184 02:32:51.760 --> 02:32:54.760 more organic than when you go to Canada and they're 2185 02:32:54.920 --> 02:32:57.440 just oh yeah and the French stuff, like until you 2186 02:32:57.479 --> 02:32:59.399 get to Quebec and that's just the French is the 2187 02:32:59.680 --> 02:33:02.559 most important thing, and fuck all the English stuff. But 2188 02:33:02.719 --> 02:33:05.239 when you're in the English speaking part of Canada. 2189 02:33:04.959 --> 02:33:05.200 It's no. 2190 02:33:05.360 --> 02:33:07.319 We also have to have the French. There's got to 2191 02:33:07.360 --> 02:33:09.239 be the French here. There's got to have a wret 2192 02:33:09.440 --> 02:33:12.639 on every stop side. But yeah, you don't see that necessarily, 2193 02:33:12.959 --> 02:33:15.440 especially in Montreal. It's just oh, I don't want to 2194 02:33:15.440 --> 02:33:18.920 speak English, get out of here. I really now am 2195 02:33:18.959 --> 02:33:21.920 pretty inspired to see more of these Belgian films. And 2196 02:33:22.280 --> 02:33:25.040 do you know did Kumel make other things that are 2197 02:33:25.559 --> 02:33:27.319 worth tracking down and checking out? 2198 02:33:27.959 --> 02:33:30.399 Obviously some Daughters of Darkness right, and you have as well. 2199 02:33:30.760 --> 02:33:33.120 There's a movie that predates both of them that he made, 2200 02:33:33.200 --> 02:33:34.920 I think just a few years before. It was this 2201 02:33:35.159 --> 02:33:39.879 Deby feature called Believe It's Monsieur Howarden or something like that. 2202 02:33:40.399 --> 02:33:43.399 I've tried to find it. It doesn't seem like it's 2203 02:33:43.719 --> 02:33:46.879 readily available. I haven't. I've google searched it, I've seen 2204 02:33:46.920 --> 02:33:49.360 if there have been been any like home video releases. 2205 02:33:49.559 --> 02:33:52.319 I can't find it, and I would like to see 2206 02:33:52.360 --> 02:33:54.360 it because it does seem to from what I understand, 2207 02:33:54.399 --> 02:33:58.200 it lines up with Daughters of Darkness and Malpertwee in 2208 02:33:58.280 --> 02:34:01.559 a fantastique kind of way. But my understanding is that 2209 02:34:02.159 --> 02:34:07.360 after Malpertweet, Kummel was so disillusioned with the film industry 2210 02:34:07.440 --> 02:34:09.239 that he just decided he was going to work in 2211 02:34:09.360 --> 02:34:12.319 television and do documentaries, and so I think like the 2212 02:34:12.440 --> 02:34:17.600 bulk of this work following Malpertwee is in that vein 2213 02:34:17.760 --> 02:34:20.399 rather than I think he just decided like this he wanted, 2214 02:34:20.520 --> 02:34:23.239 he liked doing those films, but also they weren't really 2215 02:34:23.719 --> 02:34:25.959 working for him in terms of his career, and so 2216 02:34:26.079 --> 02:34:28.760 he just decided to move on from it. He did 2217 02:34:28.920 --> 02:34:31.280 some The other thing that I have seen that he's 2218 02:34:31.319 --> 02:34:33.959 done was there's a there was a TV show in 2219 02:34:34.040 --> 02:34:38.000 the eighties and nineties from France called LASERI Rose. I 2220 02:34:38.040 --> 02:34:39.559 don't know if you're familiar with this, but it was 2221 02:34:39.639 --> 02:34:43.200 like an erotic late night TV and it was done 2222 02:34:43.319 --> 02:34:46.920 like taking stories, erotic stories from classic literature and adapting 2223 02:34:47.000 --> 02:34:50.120 them for TV. And Kummel did a few of those. 2224 02:34:50.200 --> 02:34:54.000 I think I did about Valerian Worovchick, the younger Bunuel, 2225 02:34:54.360 --> 02:34:57.200 so they had it's quite weird, but they like sexy 2226 02:34:57.280 --> 02:35:00.239 late night TV. But it's also like classic literature and 2227 02:35:00.920 --> 02:35:05.079 very well respected directors working on these. So it's been 2228 02:35:05.120 --> 02:35:07.840 a while since I've seen Kamel's contribution to that series. 2229 02:35:07.920 --> 02:35:10.079 But now I have to revisit it just now, having 2230 02:35:10.120 --> 02:35:12.760 deep dived into his the rest of his work. 2231 02:35:13.520 --> 02:35:17.000 You mentioned the Baryl release, and we should probably clarify 2232 02:35:17.040 --> 02:35:22.239 because that just sounds weird. A company called Baryl, I'm 2233 02:35:22.280 --> 02:35:24.879 not familiar with their work too much other than this 2234 02:35:25.479 --> 02:35:28.879 one release that they did back in two thousand and seven. 2235 02:35:29.000 --> 02:35:32.719 I think it was where it's a double disc set 2236 02:35:33.079 --> 02:35:36.959 of this movie with both cuts and a ton of extras. 2237 02:35:37.520 --> 02:35:42.239 I've referenced the commentary multiple times. Great commentary track, really 2238 02:35:42.280 --> 02:35:45.000 put together with care. But as far as I know, 2239 02:35:45.200 --> 02:35:48.239 there's no Blu Ray of this in sight yet. So 2240 02:35:49.360 --> 02:35:53.120 I'm hoping that they get on track and somebody releases 2241 02:35:53.159 --> 02:35:55.200 this on Blue Ray because I think it really deserves it, 2242 02:35:55.399 --> 02:35:59.239 and the film, even on DVD looks freaking fantastic, and 2243 02:35:59.680 --> 02:36:01.959 I just I can't imagine how nice this would be 2244 02:36:02.200 --> 02:36:05.639 if it was presented as a restored Blu Ray version. 2245 02:36:06.399 --> 02:36:09.719 I can share some news about that. While I don't 2246 02:36:09.760 --> 02:36:12.040 know of a specific Blu Ray that is in production 2247 02:36:12.159 --> 02:36:14.760 as we speak, what I do know is that in 2248 02:36:15.159 --> 02:36:18.079 twenty twenty three, the film was selected by one of 2249 02:36:18.120 --> 02:36:21.840 the European Film commissions. Basically, what they do is they 2250 02:36:21.959 --> 02:36:24.200 take a number of films every year and fund their 2251 02:36:24.479 --> 02:36:28.879 complete and total professional restoration in pandem with the director 2252 02:36:28.959 --> 02:36:31.799 if they're still around, which in this case Kumel is 2253 02:36:31.879 --> 02:36:33.920 so Opportunity was one of the films that was selected 2254 02:36:33.959 --> 02:36:36.479 in twenty twenty three for this, so they've completely restored 2255 02:36:36.520 --> 02:36:39.479 it from the negatives. I think that both the negatives 2256 02:36:39.559 --> 02:36:44.120 from the can version and the director's cut. He's had 2257 02:36:44.200 --> 02:36:46.840 more say over the film than he ever has, and 2258 02:36:46.959 --> 02:36:49.559 it's just been completely sorry. It's touring Europe. I think 2259 02:36:49.600 --> 02:36:51.760 it's head of Screening and Brussels. I think it's screening 2260 02:36:51.799 --> 02:36:54.079 in Italy earlier this year. He's got all the signs 2261 02:36:54.120 --> 02:36:56.440 that yes, at some point we will get that, and 2262 02:36:56.600 --> 02:36:57.120 I'm really. 2263 02:36:57.000 --> 02:37:01.000 Excited about that. That's fantastic when you see a good 2264 02:37:01.079 --> 02:37:04.079 quality version of Daughters and Doctors. It's such a beautiful film, 2265 02:37:04.200 --> 02:37:08.040 so beautiful shot, and I feel the existing release of 2266 02:37:08.120 --> 02:37:12.040 Malbritswee hints at what this might look like. But I 2267 02:37:12.079 --> 02:37:14.959 can only imagine how great this will look in a 2268 02:37:15.079 --> 02:37:20.319 restored version, because the potential is there for this bureau revelation. 2269 02:37:21.120 --> 02:37:23.319 Yeah, this film really strikes me as one and I 2270 02:37:23.360 --> 02:37:24.760 feel like I say this about a lot of films 2271 02:37:24.799 --> 02:37:26.680 that I really love it. Once it gets out there 2272 02:37:26.719 --> 02:37:28.520 and more people are able to see it in all 2273 02:37:28.600 --> 02:37:32.159 its glory, that it will just inspire a whole new 2274 02:37:32.239 --> 02:37:34.440 generation of fans. I think people will really fall in 2275 02:37:34.479 --> 02:37:34.920 love with it. 2276 02:37:35.760 --> 02:37:38.719 I completely agree, and once again, thank you so much 2277 02:37:38.840 --> 02:37:42.120 for introducing me to this film, because it took a 2278 02:37:42.200 --> 02:37:44.040 lot to get me to finally sit down and watch it. 2279 02:37:44.799 --> 02:37:46.920 Happy to share the belove. 2280 02:37:48.479 --> 02:37:50.280 All right, let's go ahead and take another break and 2281 02:37:50.360 --> 02:37:52.959 play a preview for next week's show right after these 2282 02:37:53.040 --> 02:37:53.799 brief messages. 2283 02:37:54.440 --> 02:37:58.040 The Silent Hour is new today on Digital. Joel Kinneman 2284 02:37:58.120 --> 02:38:00.840 stars as a detective guarding a deaf witness marked for 2285 02:38:00.959 --> 02:38:04.680 death after seeing a gang murder. Trapped by the killers, 2286 02:38:05.079 --> 02:38:08.840 they have to outsmart them to survive. Buy or rent 2287 02:38:09.040 --> 02:38:13.559 The Silent Hour, now rated R from Republic Pictures. 2288 02:38:14.360 --> 02:38:17.479 Own or rent Twisters on Digital now, or look for 2289 02:38:17.559 --> 02:38:20.399 the four k Ultra HD in Blu Ray on October 2290 02:38:20.479 --> 02:38:25.440 twenty second. The Blockbuster Disaster Epics starring Daisy Edgar Jones, 2291 02:38:25.799 --> 02:38:29.639 Glenn Powell and Anthony Ramos, is packed with a whirlwind 2292 02:38:29.760 --> 02:38:34.680 of heart stopping action and exhilarating thrills. We live Entertainment 2293 02:38:34.799 --> 02:38:39.200 calls Twisters the perfect blockbuster Watch at home now with 2294 02:38:39.319 --> 02:38:41.920 over one hour of exclusive bonus content. 2295 02:38:46.000 --> 02:38:54.719 It is nineteen ninety five. Hunting is the national sport 2296 02:38:55.680 --> 02:39:03.200 people and the prey. The world is ruled by a 2297 02:39:03.360 --> 02:39:04.399 strict regime. 2298 02:39:05.280 --> 02:39:07.680 They're going to make obedient little citizens out of us. 2299 02:39:07.840 --> 02:39:11.680 Who are society? What do you mean? 2300 02:39:11.959 --> 02:39:15.159 Step on the line and they take it to the 2301 02:39:15.280 --> 02:39:16.000 funny farm. 2302 02:39:16.840 --> 02:39:18.319 You could die laughing. 2303 02:39:18.360 --> 02:39:22.319 All you have to do is lead my guests on 2304 02:39:22.440 --> 02:39:25.440 a chase for one day, a little sport. 2305 02:39:26.520 --> 02:39:29.840 You can to kiss. Not necessarily, you might survive. 2306 02:39:34.040 --> 02:39:35.319 Come on, you big piece of shit. 2307 02:39:35.680 --> 02:39:42.840 You come me. I'm the one you can't break. I'm 2308 02:39:42.840 --> 02:39:44.559 what you've been afraid of all your life. 2309 02:39:45.239 --> 02:39:46.280 I'm afraid of nothing. 2310 02:39:46.879 --> 02:39:47.920 You're afraid of failing. 2311 02:39:51.040 --> 02:39:54.840 Now a little flower. Yes, I'm gonna taste your honey. 2312 02:40:00.120 --> 02:40:02.440 It is less the size of one's gun that comes 2313 02:40:05.200 --> 02:40:06.879 or the school with which it's used. 2314 02:40:09.559 --> 02:40:12.440 Don't you kill him, Jennifer, He's my target. 2315 02:40:14.440 --> 02:40:17.799 This is Nata. The hunt is over. 2316 02:40:19.840 --> 02:40:22.000 Shoot on sight, shoot a cue. 2317 02:40:32.680 --> 02:40:33.040 Let me go? 2318 02:40:33.319 --> 02:40:36.959 He no way, But you don't leave me here? 2319 02:40:49.920 --> 02:40:51.479 You're right, Raby? 2320 02:40:51.559 --> 02:40:52.360 Why but you chid? 2321 02:40:53.559 --> 02:41:01.319 The hunters and the hunted the Quick, I'm dead s 2322 02:41:04.319 --> 02:41:07.920 who will survive the blood and thunder shocker. 2323 02:41:07.600 --> 02:41:08.079 Of the year. 2324 02:41:25.079 --> 02:41:26.920 That's right. We'll be back next week when they look 2325 02:41:27.000 --> 02:41:30.280 at Turkey Shoot. Until then, I want to thank my 2326 02:41:30.799 --> 02:41:33.600 co host for this week, Jessica and Matthew. So, Matthew, 2327 02:41:33.639 --> 02:41:34.760 what have you been up to lately? 2328 02:41:35.440 --> 02:41:39.479 And teaching in my online courses. Film courses take up 2329 02:41:39.520 --> 02:41:41.520 a lot of my time, but I've got a new 2330 02:41:41.600 --> 02:41:44.840 course on the Italian cinema of the sixties that I'm 2331 02:41:44.920 --> 02:41:49.159 putting together right now, and yeah, that's take up most 2332 02:41:49.200 --> 02:41:51.079 of my time. But I'm also writing and working on 2333 02:41:51.479 --> 02:41:52.559 Blu Ray colentrees. 2334 02:41:53.319 --> 02:41:55.760 I could definitely use that class because I don't know 2335 02:41:55.840 --> 02:41:58.479 that much about Italian films from the sixties. 2336 02:41:59.159 --> 02:42:00.879 Come alone'll be very welcome. 2337 02:42:00.959 --> 02:42:03.040 Lick and Jessica. What's new in your world? 2338 02:42:04.319 --> 02:42:06.000 Not too much since the last time I was on. 2339 02:42:06.840 --> 02:42:09.879 I've got a few sort of writing things that are 2340 02:42:10.319 --> 02:42:13.600 in some kind of embryonic state and hopefully we'll make 2341 02:42:13.639 --> 02:42:17.120 it to full fruition at some point. But yeah, other 2342 02:42:17.200 --> 02:42:19.879 than that, I guess maybe for those who are interested 2343 02:42:20.040 --> 02:42:23.760 in Belgian art, I can point you to my Instagram 2344 02:42:23.840 --> 02:42:27.959 which is LaBelle o'so Law, dot Bell, dot Otero, and 2345 02:42:28.079 --> 02:42:31.600 I post especially recently images that are in my psyche 2346 02:42:31.719 --> 02:42:33.719 for various reasons because of other things in my life 2347 02:42:33.760 --> 02:42:36.360 that are unrelated. Lately, a lot of Belgian surrealism has 2348 02:42:36.399 --> 02:42:38.639 been making its way into the feed, So if you 2349 02:42:38.879 --> 02:42:41.079 want to look at some of these images that I've 2350 02:42:41.079 --> 02:42:43.600 spoken about, you can check out on Instagram and see 2351 02:42:43.639 --> 02:42:44.200 some of them there. 2352 02:42:45.120 --> 02:42:49.239 I highly recommend, just because Instagram it's very entertaining. Thank 2353 02:42:49.280 --> 02:42:51.639 you well, Thank you so much guys for being on 2354 02:42:51.760 --> 02:42:53.719 the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want 2355 02:42:53.719 --> 02:42:55.399 to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check 2356 02:42:55.440 --> 02:42:56.959 out some of the other shows that I work on. 2357 02:42:57.399 --> 02:43:01.200 They are all available at Weirdingway Media dot Thanks especially 2358 02:43:01.239 --> 02:43:03.719 to our Patreon community. If you want to join the community, 2359 02:43:04.079 --> 02:43:07.479 visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we 2360 02:43:07.639 --> 02:43:10.079 get helps the Projection Booth take over the world.