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l I B s y n ads dot com today.

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Speaker 2: Remaining a live man like this man letting butterfly flappin

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in wing big ban in a forced man it go

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cause a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away man,

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nobody see nobody else.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: You got directed.

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Speaker 3: Go back a night on the Pan.

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Speaker 4: All right, Andrew Edwards, Welcome back to the Jay Burdens Show.

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Speaker 3: How you doing, man good? I'm glad to be with

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you again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we are continuing our much vaunted UH movie

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review series. Uh, you picked the last one ish kind

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of You gave me a list and I just dictated

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to you were doing this week, and we are doing

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the nineteen ninety eight Comma or like comedy, maybe romance,

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maybe film Buffalo sixty six. So a little bit of

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context on this.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: This is one of my brother in law and my

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wife's favorite movies. They love it. I had, literally I

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had no preconceptions about either this movie or Vincent Gallo,

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the director, star writer, And the first time I went

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through it, I couldn't take it. I tapped out at

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about the fifty percent mark. It was just too bizarre,

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too weird, too uncomfortable. And then the second time I

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sat back through it and genuinely enjoyed it. I don't

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know if I necessarily have the greatest argument as to

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why I enjoyed it, but as part of that, I've

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sort of also become fascinated by Vincent Gallo as sort

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of the world's most insane film all tour. He is

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reviled by many people, which is sort of funny. But anyway, Andy,

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I'll kick it back to you. I'm curious to get

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your thoughts. We were talking a little bit about, you know,

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your kind of initial reaction upon seeing the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, maybe for our listeners, I mean we give them

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a little bit of you know, the intro there isn't

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It's an indie movie, so it isn't like there's a

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highly complicated plot, and the emphasis is really on these characters.

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And I note a couple other things just to kind

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of set the table for anybody who does want to

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see this movie. I noticed going back, I must have

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seen this like in nineteen ninety eight. I think it

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was was that right, nineteen ninety eight. It comes out,

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but I don't remember any of it, and Burden says

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to me, we're doing this movie, so okay. So I

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sit down after a very long day, and likewise I

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didn't make it fifty percent. I wanted to tap out

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at about I don't know, like really the minute that

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Vincent Gallo's character gets out of jail, which is how

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the movie opens, you know, you're like, man, this guy

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is just gusting, Like this is not somebody that I

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can identify with, and and therein begins what is really

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a great movie in many ways, but is extremely difficult

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anyway for me. For me to get through. One thing

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to note is he's going for a kind of like

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seventies John Cassavetti's uh feel and vibe, and that's that's

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something pretty interesting because he he goes, he brings in

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Ben Gazara as his dad, who worked with famously John

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cassavettis on a number of movies, including what I think

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is Cassavetti's best, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie, and

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he's in some other ones. But I think that that

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plays into how the movie has has situated itself in

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like popular cultural, popular culture or history. Uh, he's Vincent Gallo,

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isn't like you were saying earlier. I mean, he's polarizing,

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but he's got a lot of respect from a lot

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of people too. So for the audience. Once again, guy

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gets out of prison and immediately wants to go over

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and see his parents, who this is all said in Buffalo,

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which is kind of awful, You know that, Like the

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weather is very gray, and it's just every everything about

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it is kind of depressing and weird, which may be accurate.

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I've never been to Buffalo, have you been?

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Speaker 4: It's it's an accurate depiction. It is okay, I'd be sure.

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I don't know for sure. I'd be shocked if it

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wasn't filmed there, because if not, that is exactly what

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Buffalo looks like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I looked into it a little bit and

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apparently it is at least almost all shot in Buffalo,

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and a ton of is shot actually in Vincent Gallo.

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The director writer is from Buffalo, and a lot of

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it is shot in his parents' house, in his actual

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the house that he grew up in. And I will

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maybe I'll set that the rest of that aside and

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finish this idea. So against for the listeners, like, not

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much really happens in terms of plot. He wants to

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go see his mom and dad. He immediately kidnaps this

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girl and then dig go over to his mom and

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dad's house and we find out that he's he's been

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in jail because he was sort of set up to

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take the fall for another guy in this betting scheme.

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He does his five or seven years or something, he

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gets out and there he is, he has nowhere he has.

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He's pretty young, and I mean, I guess he's supposed

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to be maybe thirty or something like late twenties. And

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from there, yeah, like what do you think, like, not

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much really happens. It's really about this guy's internal thing

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and the relationship between him and the girl.

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Speaker 4: So you're right, and that is sort of the you know,

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the a plot right him you know, meeting this girl.

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It's sort of a inversion of the classic rom com

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trope where you know, he when he was away in jail.

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We find this out later in the narrative, used his

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mentally disabled friend Goon, who is a background character in this,

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to basically send his parents letters, right, you know, like

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postdated so that they would think that he is, you know,

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living this life as a you know, man of mystery, right,

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flying all around the world. And as part of this,

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he's married. So he gets out of jail, which is

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sort of played up in this kind of like sad

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pathetic way. You know, he's just you know, trying to

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The whole inciting incident is he's trying to find a bathroom, right.

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He runs into this dance studio and that's where he

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sees this girl, Leila, kidnaps her, demands that she drive

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him to his parents' house, and this is where you

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get kind of the comedy of it, because he is

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vacillating between completely normal conversations and insane threats, threatening to

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kill her, just badgering her constantly, and she is, relatively speaking,

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a normal person compared to you know, Vincent Gallo, kind

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of chewing the scenery and so, you know, that's the

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inciting incident to the main plot. But in the background,

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we find out that he was put away for betting

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on the Buffalo Bills at the I think it's isn't

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at the at the super Bowl. Yeah, and you know,

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at this this notable super Bowl, he put ten thousand

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dollars on the Buffalo Bills to win. You know, the

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best kicker in the league misses the field goal right,

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screws the game, screws him. And so when he gets

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out and he's concocted this plan to you know, go

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find this kicker and shoot him. And so that's sort

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of the b plot. The background, the interactions between you know,

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Vincent Gallon and Leila are just off the rip, incredibly uncomfortable,

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like he's threatening her with the most insane threats over

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very minor things. This is a very quotable movie. One

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of the funniest parts is, you know he's kidnapped her,

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you know, from this dance studio, which is shot in

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kind of a comedic way, like he's just dragging this

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girl past like a bunch of eight year old girls

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like doing ballet. But he goes out to her car,

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he shoves her in the passenger seat, he gets in

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the driver's seat, and we find out that, you know,

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she drives, you know, a manual. Weirdly enough, this is

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funny that this car was at the time sort of

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a comedic ship box. Now those old eighties Corollas are

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worth like fifteen grand, bare minimum. Just a funny aside

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has this massive blowout right where he talks about I

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don't know how to drive shifter cars. I drive luxury cars.

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Do you know what a luxury car is? I drive cataloged,

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just berating this almost completely silent woman, which you're right,

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it's incredibly uncomfortable, but man, it is it is pretty funny.

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It is chewing the scenery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, God, there's so many scenes like that. I thought

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you were going to go for the one where he's

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talking about he's threatening her, you know what he will

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do if she runs off, But the whole time she

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never gives there's zero indication that she's ever going to

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run off, which is part of the comedy. Right Like

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he does kind of violently grab her, which I came

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back to towards the end in you know, sort of

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like a primitive sense. He establishes this like absolute base

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level relationship with her right there, and he there's sort

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of like this indication, well, you know, maybe he's going

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to abscond with her a raper, and it turns out

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to be the absolute opposite of that. Right at the end,

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his like, mommy problems are so profound that when when

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the time comes when this relationship gets like quote intimate,

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we can get there to that, because that's its whole

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other thing. But the way that heh he describes what

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he's going to do to her, you know, I'm going

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to take a big bite out of your cheek and

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then shot it out. He there's no capacity when this

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within this guy to actually do this to her, and

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there's no indication from her that she's actually going to leave,

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and so it sets this bizarre tension that is you're right,

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like kind of comedy gold where you wonder, like, what

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what are these people doing? What is really happening here?

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When she He's not going to come through on any

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of these threats. He's totally inept and she doesn't even

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want to leave and she's just met him. Like, what's

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going on with that part of it? What did you

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make of the Christina Ricci characters just kind of giving

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over to that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it's interesting because she is, in a weird way,

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incredibly passive, right, she's just along for the ride, and

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you know, someone that's just artifsts, right, it's a moody

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or whatever. But I do think that it is It

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is incredibly interesting, especially because she seems to be basically

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the only person in the world who actually pays attention

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to Vincent Gallo in any capacity at all, and he's

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otherwise sort of, you know, completely ignored. And I think

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it's interesting because you sort of see this distinction between like,

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and it's funny me I haven't even using his real

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name because it is there are kind of questions about

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how autobiographical this movie is, right, but you know, Gallo's

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kind of very incomplete projected self image and how everyone

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else actually sees him because you know, up to the

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very beginning, you don't actually know really what's going on.

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You know, you are not given the sort of context

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about you know, taking the dive and the bet and

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all that, right, and so you know, you're sort of

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in real time learning that this guy is kind of

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just a massive loser. Like his best friend is special needs,

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his parents hate him, he doesn't really have anything going

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on in life other than you know, this relationship with

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with Leila. And what's interesting, and we'll get into this

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at the end of the movie, is that his sort

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of core motivation is sort of killing the guy who

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sent him to prison, right, this kicker. Yeah, and that

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is sort of the one animating thrust throughout this entire movie,

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and he is able to sort of discard that for

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this relationship in a way that's oddly touching given the

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griminess of this movie. Otherwise, I want I actually to

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get back to your much earlier point about you know,

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sort of the the echoes to the seventies. It's kind

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of interesting thing. So obviously this was the late nineties,

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so it's a little bit ahead of the curve. But

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in my mind, really the two thousands through the twenty

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tens are like kind of this this weird like the

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emergence of kind of retro futurism, Like you see this

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in car designs, right, Like the class like the new Mini,

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the Volkswagen Beetle, all of those being brought back as

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kind of echoes to a previous era. So in film

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as well, I mean to be honest, a lot of

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Tarantino's work is again calling back to the kind of

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grind house look. Robert Rodriguez, you know, basically made a

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career on doing exactly that. But I think it's interesting

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as well because I actually hadn't even thought about that,

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but once you mentioned it, like, there are multiple features

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of this that are basically out of you know, a

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movie twenty years earlier, right, the whole the whole fact

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that this guy, like, I mean to be honest, the

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way he's dressed, but the you know, the the prominence

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of bowling, right this, that whole scene is sort of

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dripping in it. And uh, yeah, it's funny. I would

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not have noticed that, but you're you're kind of spot

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on on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was one of the first things that I

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noticed because it's shot in film too. I mean, it

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must have been shot in film. I don't think that

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digital was really even available at that time. And you're right,

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I mean the clothes, the weird like platform boots, these

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red he's wearing this drab, kind of totally gray out

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fit and it's all skinny.

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Speaker 4: The boots are kind of Thomas seven seven. You can

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see him where in those boots.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good point, they really are again. And then he

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has these like almost like ruby slippers, sort of just

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one splash of color. And uh, some of the techniques

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too that I actually liked. Some of the lighting techniques

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he seems to homage maybe maybe David Lynch with eraser Head,

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although David Lynch uses this technique later in his career too,

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where he a spotlight sort of erupts into the naturalistic

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lighting and you know, draws us into some sort of

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a dream scenario. That's one he uses that technique of

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where he which I thought was I have. I usually

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don't like that sort of stuff, you know, like gimmicks

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or whatever, especially maybe now as you point out, like

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it's it's almost like it's gone through one loop back

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and then another, and in each loop back it maybe

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gets a little bit I don't know if it's compressing

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into some like truth or if it's kind of getting deluded.

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I'm really not sure. But he uses this technique of

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many screens within the screen and I have to admit

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that was pretty all right.

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Speaker 4: Andrew Edwards, Welcome back to the Jay Burdon Show.

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Speaker 3: How you doing, man good. I'm glad to be with

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you again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So we are continuing our much vaunted movie review series.

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You picked the last one ish kind of You gave

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me a list and I just dictated to you before

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doing this week, and we are doing the nineteen ninety

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eight Comma or like comedy, maybe romance, maybe film Buffalo

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sixty six. So a little bit of content text on this.

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This is one of my brother in law and my

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wife's favorite movies.

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Speaker 3: They love it.

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Speaker 4: I had, literally I had no preconceptions about either this

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movie or Vincent Gallo, the director, star writer, And the

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first time I went through it, I couldn't take it.

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I tapped out at about the fifty percent mark. It

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was just too bizarre, too weird, too uncomfortable. And then

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the second time I sat back through it and genuinely

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enjoyed it. I don't know if I necessarily have the

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greatest argument as to why I enjoyed it, but as

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part of that, I've sort of also become fascinated by

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Vincent Gallo as sort of the world's most insane film

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all Tour. He is reviled by many people, which is

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sort of funny. But anyway, Andy, I'll kick it back

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to you. I'm curious to get your thoughts. We're talking

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a little bit about, you know, your kind of initial

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reaction upon seeing the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, maybe for our listeners, I mean we give them

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a little bit of you know, the intro there isn't

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it's it's an indie movie, so it isn't like there's

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a highly complicated plot, and the emphasis is really on

308
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these characters. And I note a couple other things just

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to kind of set the table for anybody who does

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want to see this movie. I noticed going back, I

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must have seen this like in nineteen ninety eight. I

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think it was was that right, nineteen ninety eight. It

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comes out, but I don't remember any of it, and

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Burden says to me, we're doing this movie, so okay.

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So I sit down after a very long day, and

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likewise I didn't make it fifty percent. I wanted to

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tap out at about I don't know, like really the

318
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minute that Vincent Gallo's character gets out of jail, which

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is how the movie opens, you know, you're like, man,

320
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this Guy is is is disgusting, Like this is not

321
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somebody that I can identify with, And therein begins what

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is really a great movie in many ways, but is

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extremely difficult anyway for me, for me to get through.

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One thing to note is he's going for a kind

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of like seventies John Cassavetti's feel and vibe, and that's

326
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that's something pretty interesting because he he goes, he brings

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in Ben Gazara as his dad, who worked with famously

328
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John cassavettis on a number of movies, including what I

329
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think is Cassavetti's best, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie,

330
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and he's in some other ones. But I think that

331
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that plays into how the movie has has situated itself

332
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:10,319
in like popular cultural, popular culture or history. He's Vincent

333
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Gallo isn't like you were saying earlier. I mean, he's polarizing,

334
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but he's got a lot of respect from a lot

335
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of people too. So for the audience. Once again, guy

336
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gets out of prison and immediately wants to go over

337
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and see his parents, who this is all said in Buffalo,

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which is kind of awful. You know that, Like the

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weather is very gray and it's every everything about it

340
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is kind of depressing and weird, which may be accurate.

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I've never been to Buffalo, have you been?

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Speaker 4: It's it's an accurate depiction, it is okay, I'd be sure.

343
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I don't know for sure. I'd be shocked if it

344
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wasn't filmed there, because if not, that is exactly what

345
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buffle looks like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I looked into it a little bit and

347
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apparently it is at least almost all shot in Buffalo,

348
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and a ton of it is shot actually in Vincent Gallo.

349
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The director writer is from Buffalo, and a lot of

350
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it is shot in his parents' house, in his actual

351
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the house that he grew up in. And I will

352
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maybe I'll set that the rest of that aside and

353
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finish this idea. So against for the listeners, like, not

354
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much really happens in terms of plot. He wants to

355
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go see his mom and dad. He immediately kidnaps this

356
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girl and then dig go over to his mom and

357
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dad's house and we find out that he's been in

358
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jail because he was sort of set up to take

359
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the fall for another guy in this betting scheme. He

360
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does his five or seven years or something. He gets

361
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out and there he is he has nowhere he has.

362
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He's pretty young, and I mean I guess he's supposed

363
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to be maybe thirty or something like late twenties. And

364
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from there, yeah, like what do you think, Like, not

365
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,160
much really happens. It's really about this guy's internal thing

366
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and the relationship between him and the girl.

367
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Speaker 4: So you're right, and that is sort of the you know,

368
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the a plot, right him, you know, meeting this girl.

369
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It's sort of a inversion of the classic rom com

370
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trope where you know, he when he was away in jail.

371
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We find this out later in the narrative, used his

372
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mentally disabled friend Goon, who is a background character in this,

373
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to basically send his parents letters, right, you know, like

374
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postdated so that they would think that he is, you know,

375
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living this life as a you know, man of mystery, right,

376
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flying all around the world, and as part of this

377
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he's man. So he gets out of jail, which is

378
00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:05,279
sort of played up in this kind of like sad

379
00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:08,680
pathetic way. You know, he's just you know, trying to

380
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,759
The whole inciting incident is he's trying to find a bathroom, right.

381
00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:14,319
He runs into this dance studio and that's where he

382
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,880
sees this girl, Leila, kidnaps her, demands that she drive

383
00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,720
him to his parents' house, and this is where you

384
00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:24,440
get kind of the comedy of it, because he is

385
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:31,960
vacillating between completely normal conversations and insane threats, threatening to

386
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:38,599
kill her, just badgering her constantly, and she is, relatively speaking,

387
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,640
a normal person compared to you know, Vincent Gallo, kind

388
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,000
of chewing the scenery. And so, you know, that's the

389
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:47,559
inciting incident to the main plot. But in the background,

390
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,240
we find out that he was put away for betting

391
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,480
on the Buffalo Bills at the I think it's isn't

392
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:01,440
at the at the super Bowl, Yeah, and you know,

393
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:04,720
at this this notable super Bowl. Yeah, he put ten

394
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,000
thousand dollars on the Buffalo Bills to win. You know,

395
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:10,200
the best kicker in the league misses the field goal right,

396
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,319
screws the game, screws him. And so when he gets

397
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,240
out and he's concocted this plan to you know, go

398
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,240
find this kicker and shoot him. And so that's sort

399
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:26,440
of the b plot. The background, the interactions between you know,

400
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:32,400
Vincent gall and Layla are just off the rip, incredibly uncomfortable,

401
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:36,000
like he's threatening her with the most insane threats over

402
00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:40,680
very minor things. This is a very quotable movie. One

403
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,119
of the funniest parts is, you know, he's kidnapped her,

404
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:47,759
you know, from this dance studio, which is shot in

405
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,240
kind of a comedic way, like he's just dragging this

406
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,720
girl past like a bunch of eight year old girls

407
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,559
like doing ballet. But he goes out to her car,

408
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,720
he shoves her in the passenger seat, he gets in

409
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:02,359
the driver's seat, and we find out that, you know,

410
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,519
she drives, you know, a manual. Weirdly enough, this is

411
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:07,519
funny that this car was at the time sort of

412
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:11,160
a comedic ship box, and now those old eighties Corollas

413
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,279
are worth like fifteen grand bare minimum. Just a funny aside,

414
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,759
has this massive blowout right where he talks about, I

415
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:23,279
don't know how to drive shifter cars. I drive luxury cars.

416
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,119
Do you know what a luxury car is? I drive catalogs,

417
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,319
just berating this almost completely silent woman, which you're right,

418
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,680
it's incredibly uncomfortable, but man, it is it is pretty funny.

419
00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:37,799
It is chewing the scenery.

420
00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:42,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, God that there's so many scenes like that. I

421
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:43,799
thought you were going to go for the one where

422
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:46,880
he's talking about he's threatening her, you know what he

423
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,160
will do if she runs off, But the whole time

424
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,680
she never gives there's zero indication that she's ever going

425
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,640
to run off, which is part of the comedy, right

426
00:26:54,759 --> 00:26:58,480
Like he does kind of violently grab her, which I

427
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:02,160
came back to towards the end, and in you know,

428
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,200
sort of like a primitive sense, he establishes this like

429
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:11,680
absolute base level relationship with her right there, and he

430
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:15,839
there's sort of like this indication, well, you know, maybe

431
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,319
he's going to abscond with her a raper, and it

432
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,599
turns out to be the absolute opposite of that. Right

433
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:28,960
at the end, his like, mommy problems are so profound

434
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:33,519
that when when the time comes when this relationship gets

435
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,720
like quote intimate, we can get there to that, because

436
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,680
that's its whole other thing. But the way that heh

437
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,440
he describes what he's going to do to her, you know,

438
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:44,960
I'm going to take a big bite out of your

439
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:52,079
cheek and then shift it out. He there's no capacity

440
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,680
when this within this guy to actually do this to her,

441
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,400
and there's no indication from her that she's actually going

442
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,599
to leave, and so it sets this bizarre tension that

443
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:07,400
is You're right, like kind of comedy gold where you wonder, like,

444
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,640
what are these people doing? What is really happening here?

445
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,160
When she he's not going to come through on any

446
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,839
of these threats. He's totally inept and she doesn't even

447
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,440
want to leave and she's just met him. Like, what's

448
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:22,839
going on with that part of it? What did you

449
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:29,480
make of the Christina Ricci characters just kind of giving

450
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:32,880
over to that? Yeah, Well, it's.

451
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: Interesting because she is, in a weird way, incredibly passive, right,

452
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:45,680
She's just along for the ride, and you know, some

453
00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:48,119
of that's just artificts right, it's a moody or whatever.

454
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,599
But I do think that it is It is incredibly interesting,

455
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,480
especially because she seems to be basically the only person

456
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:58,480
in the world who actually pays attention to Vincent Gallo

457
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:01,960
in any capacity at all, and he's otherwise sort of,

458
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,559
you know, completely ignored. And I think it's interesting because

459
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:15,720
you sort of see this distinction between like, and it's

460
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,839
funny me I don't even using his real name because

461
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,839
it is there are kind of questions about how autobiographical

462
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,839
this movie is, right, but you know, Gallo's kind of

463
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:31,880
very incomplete projected self image and how everyone else actually

464
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,039
sees him, because you know, up to the very beginning,

465
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:41,000
you don't actually know really what's going on. You know,

466
00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:43,640
you are not given the sort of context about you know,

467
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,240
taking the dive and the bet and all that, right,

468
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:49,519
and so you know, you're sort of in real time

469
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,559
learning that this guy is kind of just a massive loser.

470
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,279
Like his best friend is special needs, his parents hate him,

471
00:29:57,119 --> 00:29:59,880
he doesn't really have anything going on in life other

472
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,279
than you know, this relationship with with Leila. And what's interesting,

473
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:05,799
and we'll get into this at the end of the movie,

474
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,319
is that his sort of core motivation is sort of

475
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,839
killing the guy who sent him to prison, right this kicker,

476
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,799
and that is sort of the one animating thrust throughout

477
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:24,039
this entire movie, and he is able to sort of

478
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,559
discard that for this relationship in a way that's oddly

479
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:33,039
touching given the griminess of this movie. Otherwise, I want,

480
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:37,000
I actually to get back to your much earlier point

481
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:41,039
about you know, sort of the the echoes to the seventies.

482
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,160
It's kind of interesting thing. So obviously this was the

483
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,240
late nineties, so it's a little bit ahead of the curve.

484
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,720
But in my mind, really the two thousands through the

485
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:56,559
twenty tens are like kind of this this weird like

486
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,359
the emergence of kind of retro futurism, Like you see

487
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200
this in card designs, right, like the class, like the

488
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,960
new Mini, the Volkswagen Beetle, all of those being brought

489
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:08,680
back as kind of echoes to a previous era, but

490
00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:12,400
also in in film as well, I mean to be honest,

491
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,519
a lot of Tarantino's work is again calling back to

492
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,759
the kind of grind house look. Robert Rodriguez, you know,

493
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:21,839
basically made a career on doing exactly that. But I

494
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,160
think it's interesting as well because I actually hadn't even

495
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,720
thought about that, but once you mentioned it, Like, there

496
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:30,319
are multiple features of this that are basically out of

497
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:33,319
you know, a movie twenty years earlier, right, the whole

498
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,519
the whole fact that this guy, like I mean to

499
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,279
be honest, the way he's dressed, but the you know,

500
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:41,799
the the prominence of bowling, right this that whole scene

501
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:44,799
is sort of dripping in it, And uh, yeah, it's funny.

502
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:46,480
I would not have noticed that, but you're you're kind

503
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:47,319
of spot on on that.

504
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:49,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was one of the first things that I

505
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,759
noticed because it's shot in film too. I mean it

506
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:55,440
must have been shot in film. I don't think that

507
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,039
digital was really even available at that time. And you're right,

508
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:04,720
I mean the clothes, the weird like platform boots, these

509
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:09,079
red He's wearing this drab, kind of totally gray outfit

510
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,799
and it's all skinny.

511
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,279
Speaker 4: The boots are kind of Thomas seven seven. You could

512
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:15,480
see him wearing those boots.

513
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, good point, they really are again. And then he

514
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:23,359
has these like almost like ruby slippers, sort of just

515
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:28,960
one splash of color. And uh, some of the techniques

516
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,319
too that I actually liked. Some of the lighting techniques

517
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:41,079
he seems to homage maybe maybe David Lynch with eraser Head,

518
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:45,960
although David Lynch uses this technique later in his career too,

519
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:54,839
where he a spotlight sort of erupts into the naturalistic

520
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,640
lighting and you know, draws us into some sort of

521
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240
a dream scenario. That's one he uses that technique of

522
00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:05,359
where he which I thought was I have. I usually

523
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,640
don't like that sort of stuff, you know, like gimmicks

524
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:11,000
or whatever, especially maybe now as you point out, like

525
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:15,880
it's it's almost like it's gone through one loop back

526
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:18,519
and then another, and in each loop back it maybe

527
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:21,599
gets a little bit. I don't know if it's compressing

528
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:25,359
into some like truth or if it's kind of getting diluted.

529
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,640
I'm really not sure. But he uses this technique of

530
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,519
many screens within the screen, and I have to admit

531
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,480
that was pretty pretty useful and pretty cool way to

532
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:43,200
kind of, you know, he would transition into backstory, and

533
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:47,200
he would transition like kind of to show the interior

534
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:54,519
of his character's mind. And I guess overall, you know,

535
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,559
it seems like in reading up on the movie that

536
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:03,559
Gallo wrote the script ten years earlier and didn't really

537
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,279
expect to be the director. But I don't know how

538
00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:09,079
true that is when I think about Vincent Gallo and

539
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,440
like what he has become. But then again, I don't know.

540
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,960
I was hoping to go back to you because this

541
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,639
aspect where you don't really know, like how much of

542
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,199
this is Vincent Gallo and how much isn't and then

543
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,599
how much because this has been you know, he's been

544
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,400
queried on this point many many times. I don't think

545
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,760
he's giving like the truth. I don't think Vincent Gallo

546
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,840
the man is concerned about the truth. What do you

547
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,039
think when you take this whole package in, I feel

548
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:50,280
like this is more like the younger generation. He's kind

549
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,079
of preempted gen X, and he's kind of picked up

550
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:59,039
on your guy's stuff, like a layer deeper than maybe

551
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:03,079
gen X experienperience is it where he's using irony and

552
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,880
I begin, what do you think? What do you make

553
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:06,280
of all that?

554
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:11,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there are several things there. I mean, it's

555
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:15,360
become kind of trite to refer to someone as almost

556
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,400
a performance artist, but let's be honest, that's what Vincent

557
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:24,239
Galo is doing. His personal website is insane and really funny,

558
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,599
and you could just imagine him grinning because it has

559
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,800
some of the most insane offensive one of one hand

560
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,760
painted T shirts. For instance, It's like, and I'll have

561
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,039
to beat this, but it's like, you know, like Barack Obama,

562
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,519
it just says faggot giant red block letters. He has

563
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:51,360
an application where you can apply for five hundred thousand

564
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:56,039
dollars for a natural or artificial dose of his sperm,

565
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,760
provided that you're attractive enough, and it's like a like,

566
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,800
I'm not doing it. It's like a three page rant

567
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:07,599
about who will and won't meet his criteria, including entire

568
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,400
races and continence. He is not interested in so like

569
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,800
you look at that and you're like, all right, clearly

570
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,880
he is to a certain degree playing a bit right.

571
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,840
He is, you know, deliberately sort of casting himself in

572
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,880
opposition to Hollywood, you know, while at the same time,

573
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:28,679
you know, being surrounded by you know, you know, high

574
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,199
fashion all that. So he's not truly this sort of

575
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,599
he's I don't believe he is truly the character he portrays.

576
00:36:35,159 --> 00:36:39,800
But as regards kind of like the the irony of it,

577
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,519
I think that's a very interesting element one of the

578
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:48,440
things that and that's sort of I guess in my

579
00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:53,280
mind what I find irritating in the conversation around this

580
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,280
movie is you have a lot of kind of pearl

581
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,320
clutching responses that say, oh, you know, Vincent Gallo is

582
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,719
just horrible to women in this movie. This is a

583
00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:05,039
you know, a misogynistic movie. And it's like, well, I mean,

584
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,280
if this person actually existed and actually did this shore

585
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:13,159
but I think that that's almost a too direct reading

586
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,079
of this film. And I think that you know, from

587
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:19,800
my mind, what we're what we're sort of seeing is

588
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:26,960
you know, this man who's sort of marked by profound abandonment.

589
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,719
So the and I don't know if it's actually true,

590
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,079
but it feels like the longest section of this movie.

591
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,599
It is sort of like the cinematic equivalent of having

592
00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:39,000
your your fingernails pulled out, uh is you know the

593
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:40,880
scene at his parents'.

594
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:44,679
Speaker 3: House, Yes, this girl, it's so bad.

595
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 4: It goes on forever like, it's genuinely so uncomfortable. And

596
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,800
his parents, particularly his mother, is literally obsessed with the

597
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,840
Buffalo Bills. You know, their house is decorated in that manner.

598
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,480
She's watching rerun while they're at the table. And to

599
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:05,920
almost a comedic degree, his parents, particularly his mother, are

600
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:10,039
uninterested in Billy, that's you know, the name of you know,

601
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:15,079
Gallo's character. They're slightly interested in in Layla a little bit,

602
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,840
not very much, but I mean really that is her

603
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:19,599
entire life.

604
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: You know.

605
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 4: Again, this is sort of those you know, it's so

606
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,320
over the top, it's sort of played for a joke.

607
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:27,519
The moment where they you know, this girl asks, oh, well,

608
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:30,159
can I see a picture of Billy And they're going

609
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,719
through there, you know, their their photo album and it's

610
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,360
just her with an increasingly obscure list of people connected

611
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,360
to the Buffalo Ells. You know, it starts off with

612
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,719
players then like you know, SYSI athletic directors, and then

613
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,920
it gets to you know, like the caterer and the

614
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,960
bus driver and of of course, right it's played for

615
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,400
a joke. But when they finally go to see you know,

616
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,320
Billy's photo, it's it's somewhere else. It's all folded up

617
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,440
in gross and you know, we get this kind of

618
00:38:57,559 --> 00:39:01,559
again slightly comedic, over the top childhood trauma where his

619
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,679
dad you know, chokes his puppy to death in front

620
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,840
of him for barking too loudly. And interesting enough, that's shot.

621
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,119
I don't know if it actually the aspect ratio changes,

622
00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:15,360
but that's another time where we see that sort of

623
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,159
frame within a frame and it shot almost like eight

624
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,920
millimeter film, right, like it has that sort of film

625
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,360
autests are going to get on me for that, but

626
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,920
it looks like you know, kind of a handheld you know,

627
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,639
film camera. Yeah, you know, kind of interestingly done. And

628
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,679
so with regards to the you know, kind of the

629
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,079
irony of this, it's like, well, obviously he's sort of

630
00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:39,960
playing it up, hamming it up. This is comedic in

631
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,480
a certain sense. You know, it's so over the top,

632
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,840
and we'll see that, you know, even in the conclusion

633
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,880
to the movie. But also I think that there is

634
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:52,039
something interesting being said there about this kind of the

635
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:56,159
culture of distraction and abandonment, right, this idea that you know,

636
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,920
his his mother in particular, is so much more obsess

637
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:02,960
with something that is fake and not real. You know,

638
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:08,559
that is this kind of like TV you know experience

639
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:11,280
that she is completely and totally disconnected from her son.

640
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,880
And as these people have no doubt heard me complain

641
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,000
about the last two weeks, we've been just buried in

642
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:21,679
snow here, and so my wife and I have been

643
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,760
walking to most places just because it's you know, safer.

644
00:40:24,519 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 5: And more reliable.

645
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: Uh.

646
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:28,559
Speaker 4: And while we were walking you know, through the ice,

647
00:40:29,199 --> 00:40:31,800
she was you know, she was talking about this movie

648
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,639
and just kind of speculating about how it is could

649
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,559
be reinterpreted, as you know, politics and culture have shifted, right,

650
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,079
because there's a certain reading of this which is the

651
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:46,800
kind of you know, very generic TV bad you know,

652
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,840
it rots your brain kind of reading. But I think

653
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,599
it's it's interesting one to the degree that like we

654
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,000
genuinely see this exact same dynamic with many people of

655
00:40:57,199 --> 00:40:59,400
the kind of you know, boomer and silent generation with

656
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:02,159
you know, news of all type, but also right, like

657
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,760
the skinner box in your pocket, you know, this sort

658
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,440
of like you know, device of distraction which kind of

659
00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:11,079
pulls you away from you know, your actual human connections.

660
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,400
And clearly this is marked Billy, right, you were talking

661
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,800
about again his kind of you know, mommy issues, right

662
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,199
he is. That is the hole that he is sort

663
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,559
of trying to fix. H one other moment, and you

664
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:25,679
know you mentioned the kind of film gimmicks, and I'll

665
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,760
kick it back to you. There's a there's sort of

666
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,960
a bizarre scene. Uh, and Billy's dad is just lecherous

667
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:37,199
this entire time, like almost a ludicrous degree.

668
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: It's just like.

669
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 4: Feeling up this moment. And you know, he invites her

670
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,920
into another room to listen to him sing Yeah, and

671
00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:52,280
he basically just lip syncs Frank Sinatra, I believe on

672
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,559
a record player for almost an unbroken two minutes as

673
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,519
he stares into the camera like he's on stage at Vaudeville.

674
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:02,960
Very bizarre scene. So I'll kick it back to you Edward.

675
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, extremely bizarre and very uncomfortable. Right, Like there's this

676
00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:12,719
the whole time. I maybe I saw this long time

677
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,559
ago and I'm not sure that I ever did see

678
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:19,400
the whole movie, but this time I'm just waiting for

679
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:23,599
him to try and rape her or make a move

680
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:27,400
on her. In some sense, there's this just awful undercurrent

681
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,400
to the whole thing, like established at the level that

682
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:37,039
now lecherous dad and young girl with you know, half

683
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:40,199
of her chest exposed. They're back in this back room

684
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,639
and Billy is just looking at the one picture that

685
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,360
they have of him. She has that his mom has

686
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,079
this whole catalog as as you mentioned, of all of

687
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:57,000
her absurd buffalo Bill's connections, and they have one single

688
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:03,519
picture of their son. And when they switch over to

689
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:09,719
the Ben Gazzara character, his dad and by the way,

690
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,679
evidently this is another one of these these crossover weird

691
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,000
misunder I don't know how we understand this. Evidently, Vincent

692
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:27,559
Gallow's dad really does have some incredibly beautiful singing voice,

693
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,880
and he is this guy who's I mean, you imagine

694
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,559
sitting in some you know, like depressing basement imagining what

695
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:41,159
he could have been. And that's Vincent Gallow's actual experience

696
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,800
of Evidently his dad is just this maniacal asshole, like

697
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,960
over the top and real like that's what Vincent Gallow's

698
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:54,719
experience of having a father is. And evidently his mother

699
00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:01,840
is not too far from this over the top vision

700
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,400
that he presents in the film. But yeah, it thinking

701
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,639
about it and talking about it with you now I

702
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,639
realize Gallo is pulling more from David Lynch in terms

703
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:18,119
of his style and technique than I ever noticed before.

704
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,119
I have seen his other Is It Brown Bunny is

705
00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:25,960
his other kind of controversial film, and those are probably

706
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,360
the only they may be his only two movies, but

707
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,880
I have seen that one, but I did not realize

708
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:38,360
how much of the Lynchian ethos esthetic that he is

709
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:43,239
just borrowing from fully. And it's in that scene with

710
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:49,280
the puppy, it's like it's almost just note for note

711
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:55,519
Lynchi and how he's moved or altered the visual just

712
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,480
enough and then gone into this type of absurd level

713
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:10,320
of violence. And you know, part of the discomfort in

714
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:18,000
watching it now I think wasn't wasn't like available to

715
00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:22,519
viewers in it wasn't available to me. Okay, this level

716
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:28,920
where it's kind of common to hear of these just

717
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,480
horror stories of how bad parents are. I mean, I

718
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,400
don't I look at normal parents around me now and

719
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:40,360
I have to I have to be critical of them.

720
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,159
They're not hitting like a standard benchmark where and I'm

721
00:45:43,199 --> 00:45:46,000
talking about people at church, people who are otherwise pretty

722
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,679
good citizens. I'm still looking over at them saying, Jesus,

723
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,119
this parenting is really substandard. So if you go back,

724
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,119
you know, this is thirty five years I one thing

725
00:45:58,199 --> 00:46:01,280
that stands out about this is and part of why

726
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,320
Vincent Gallow must be kind of hated is, Dude, he

727
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:09,400
saw this like narcissism of the female and the corruption

728
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,960
of the mother figure, evidently through his own experience, which

729
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:15,599
is horrible and tragic and probably explains why he's such

730
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,599
an asshole himself now. But that was so like, that

731
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,159
was thirty years ahead of the curve, and it's points

732
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,760
like that where at the end of the movie, I

733
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,239
really had that moment of I had to reevaluate a

734
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,599
lot of my not very developed conceptions of Vincent Gallo

735
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,280
as an artist, as you say, like he's a performance artist,

736
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,440
he's associated, he's made albums, he's doing all sorts of

737
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:47,360
really strange things and not strange and just unusual, and

738
00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:52,159
maybe maybe he deserves maybe some more credit than he's

739
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,000
been given. Because I guarantee you that if we were

740
00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:01,880
to go back in the record and look at reviews,

741
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:09,039
nobody could have I don't think taken on that vision

742
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:13,559
of the mother as so just she's the worst to me.

743
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,079
I mean that scene that you mentioned where they're at

744
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:18,360
the table is so hard to take. And it's not

745
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,960
because of like personal stuff related to me. I think

746
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,480
it's every human being watches this and it's like, this

747
00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:29,400
dude has literally nothing. I mean, his mom doesn't even

748
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,039
give a shit about him, and his dad, of course,

749
00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:32,599
is terrible.

750
00:47:34,519 --> 00:47:37,679
Speaker 4: So two things there. One that's kind of interesting again

751
00:47:38,039 --> 00:47:41,639
about the character of his mother is that you know,

752
00:47:42,039 --> 00:47:44,960
his dad is this sort of you know, quiet but

753
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:49,920
still domineering presence, but he occupies a very small space

754
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:53,639
physically within the house. You know, he has his his

755
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,400
room right where he goes to sing, but you Billy's

756
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,880
mom runs the roost, right Her stuff is everywhere that

757
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,920
you know, the Buffalo Bill's memorabilia is on every part

758
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,760
of the house, and even you know, when Billy leaves,

759
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,840
you know, she's in the kitchen and his dad is

760
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,039
retreating back to kind of his little cave.

761
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

762
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 4: I think that that's a very interesting dynamic to bring

763
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:24,199
up as well. Now obviously there's again the kind of

764
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,159
over the top, you know parts of this. One of

765
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:29,760
the things that she brings up, you know, at the

766
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,519
table is how upset she was that she was giving

767
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,119
birth to Billy when the Bills were at the Super

768
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:38,960
Bowl in nineteen sixty six and she missed, you know,

769
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,239
the big moment. Yeah, and she says, you know, I

770
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,480
think that's why. I think that was the curse. You know,

771
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,440
I was there with them for the whole season, and

772
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:49,199
then I wasn't and they lost the big game. But

773
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,719
there's actually kind of a an interesting dynamic between you know,

774
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,559
her and Layla, where Layla is, for some reason inexplicably

775
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:01,440
trying to do a very good job of pretending to

776
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:05,199
be you know, Billy's devoted fiance. You know, she's you know,

777
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,559
saying how much she likes him, you know, telling the

778
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,239
story of how they met, all the things that normal

779
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,400
parents would be concerned with. She even says like, oh,

780
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,159
we're having a baby, which is obviously not true. She's

781
00:49:17,199 --> 00:49:19,559
just lying. But throughout the entire thing.

782
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:22,800
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783
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:32,400
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784
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:37,440
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785
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786
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787
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788
00:49:49,039 --> 00:49:51,360
term applies, terms apply her.

789
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 4: Billy's dad is just like eyeing her up the entire

790
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:00,559
time shamelessly, and Billy's mom is at the table turned

791
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:05,039
the opposite direction, watching a taped game from twenty five

792
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:07,760
years ago, right like getting up and cheering during the

793
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,159
whole thing. And it's this this moment where you and

794
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,960
I think you are supposed to both hate and sympathize

795
00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:17,960
with Billy because he is he's despicable, right, He's just

796
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,400
the worst. And he even like halfway through this conversation

797
00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:28,880
he gets up to go burrate goon his best friend,

798
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,239
who is You're living at home with his mom.

799
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:32,159
Speaker 3: He has like.

800
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 4: That this shoot, the shot composition on this insane. He's

801
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,239
got like like open containers of like giddy pigs in

802
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,800
this like disgusting room. The shot is him shirtless with

803
00:50:48,159 --> 00:50:51,519
to be polite, his underwear slightly too far down his body,

804
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:56,159
and it's shot from like his chest to like his knees,

805
00:50:57,119 --> 00:50:59,320
like you you he's just disgusting.

806
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:00,679
Speaker 3: Shot flats is awful.

807
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's just in the other room berating this

808
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,320
simple minded kid for you know, not giving him the

809
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,320
information as to where this you know kicker who who

810
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:13,960
you know flubbed the big game is.

811
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: Uh.

812
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 4: So, you know, Billy eventually, you know, gets that information,

813
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:22,599
he decides to, you know, leave this is you know,

814
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,960
roughly about the kind of fifty to fifty mark and

815
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:30,159
you know, Billy goes to uh, you know the this

816
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:32,840
you know, bowling Alley, and you know, it's his first

817
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,559
time out of jail. The guy he talks to, you know,

818
00:51:35,639 --> 00:51:37,480
says like, oh, yeah, we kept your locker for you,

819
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:42,400
all your stuff, and this is I don't want to

820
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,599
say this is one of the most bizarre scenes, but

821
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,480
it's up there. This is this scene is there's a

822
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:49,480
whole lot going on. So we get a couple of things,

823
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,280
which is one, you know, Billy goes in and we

824
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,079
see his you know, his lockers undisturbed. He does seem

825
00:51:54,119 --> 00:51:57,400
to have some sort of you know, like friendship connection

826
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:01,119
to the guy who runs it, right uh, And we

827
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:03,800
get a couple of things in his locker. We get,

828
00:52:05,199 --> 00:52:07,199
you know, a whole bunch of sort of memorabilia of

829
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:12,320
him as a highly talented youth bowler, bowl one who bowls.

830
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,360
I don't know what the term of that is sort

831
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,320
of echoing in what we see in his father's room, right,

832
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,000
the idea of this kind of untapped potential derailed by life,

833
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,159
and also Chekhov's school picture, right, a picture of a

834
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:31,639
girl and when uh, you know, Leyla asks about he goes, oh,

835
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,639
you know, it's some girlfriend I had. You know, I've

836
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:34,840
had a lot of girlfriends or whatever.

837
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 3: Uh.

838
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:41,639
Speaker 4: He starts bowling, and he's bowling a perfect game. He

839
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:44,519
she asks if he can, if she can take a turn.

840
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,559
She gets a strike, and at that moment, he's his

841
00:52:46,679 --> 00:52:49,960
concentration is ruined, right, he can't do anything. There's a

842
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:53,960
very bizarre scene where she tap dances and seemingly this

843
00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:57,760
sort of dream state. Yeah for again like two minutes.

844
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:00,639
I don't really have an explanation for that. It's a

845
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:01,639
very odd scene.

846
00:53:03,079 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 3: It is, well, it's it's again this like Lynch technique

847
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,400
where right, like the spotlight, the unnatural spotlight hits the

848
00:53:12,519 --> 00:53:17,800
otherwise naturalistic lighting and we're just in the stream sequence.

849
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:19,360
I don't mean to cut you off, but I just

850
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,079
wanted to say there again, you're right the other since

851
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:28,480
I did interrupt you, I just wanted to mention that

852
00:53:29,079 --> 00:53:33,400
that scene like changes the whole game for me with

853
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,559
respect to Billy, because you realize, like, wait a minute,

854
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,079
this dude has something like a really he's like, like

855
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:45,960
you say, like a bowling savant or something. He's got

856
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,599
this very like like they say the third place or whatever.

857
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,639
He's he's a loser at school, he's a loser at home,

858
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,800
but he goes to this bowling alley evidently and he

859
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,199
becomes like this stud. I mean, the dude behind the

860
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,920
counter is it seems to evidence like genuine admiration and respect,

861
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:09,480
and Vincent Gallo kind of changes into this like a

862
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:14,760
gangster suave, like like a like a real dude, and

863
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,239
then he just hits strike after strike up to strike.

864
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,960
And it occurred to me, like part of I don't

865
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,199
mean to jump too far ahead, but it just occurred

866
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,000
to me as I was watching this, like, oh, Billy's

867
00:54:26,039 --> 00:54:30,639
whole thing here in terms of like the parents that

868
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:35,400
don't love him, and you know, his diminished avenues in

869
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:38,199
life or what have you. He makes this bet on

870
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,639
his mom's dream, you know, the Buffalo Bills is to

871
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:47,039
come through, and this derails everything. When he had this

872
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:49,960
opportunity if he really had the ten grand, which it's

873
00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:51,920
not clear if you ever even had the ten grand

874
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,079
to make the bet which gets him in so much trouble.

875
00:54:55,679 --> 00:54:57,519
But he could have bet. He could have like, you know,

876
00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:01,840
the expression like bet on yourself, like believe in yourself,

877
00:55:03,079 --> 00:55:08,760
which in some way does manifest at the end of

878
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,920
the film, where he's he's kind of been able to

879
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:17,199
wend his way through the little you know, like the

880
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:22,760
psychic forest that he's been dumped into by these completely

881
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,800
insufficient parents who have left him. Like on the one hand,

882
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:32,920
he has this vision of females in general, which is

883
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,000
it's just putrid. I mean, you could not if you

884
00:55:37,159 --> 00:55:40,039
had this mom like and you and you wind up

885
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:43,360
at all functional, it would be a miracle. And if

886
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,440
you have this dad likewise, you know, to think that

887
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:50,000
you could find it within yourself to be good at something.

888
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,639
So I just wanted to throw in that for me.

889
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,559
When he when he shows that he there's a part

890
00:55:56,639 --> 00:56:00,239
of him that is cool, that is capable, and and

891
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,360
he has his talent of bowling, and he may have

892
00:56:03,519 --> 00:56:06,280
had the opportunity to to bet that ten grand on

893
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,000
himself and go a whole other way anyway.

894
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's that's sort of an interesting thing as well, right,

895
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:18,440
that he was he was doomed by in a way

896
00:56:18,519 --> 00:56:25,159
kind of ultimately seeking you know, approval from his approval

897
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,559
from his you know, neglectful mother, Like that is ultimately

898
00:56:28,639 --> 00:56:30,960
the thing that's sort of damned, you know, trying to

899
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:32,639
you know, fill that void directly.

900
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:33,559
Speaker 3: Uh.

901
00:56:34,199 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 4: So you're rounding out the scene at the bowling alley. Uh,

902
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:43,360
there's another eminently quotable and incredibly bizarre scene where you know,

903
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:46,239
he decides like I want you know, he drags her

904
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,760
into a photo booth, you know, and basically it's like,

905
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,239
all right, I gotta get I gotta have photos to

906
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,760
send my my parents, right, and we gotta keep, you know,

907
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,039
changing the background so it looks like we're in different

908
00:56:55,039 --> 00:56:59,559
places or at different times. That obviously that that has

909
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,440
flawed with it. But it's this sort of scene where

910
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,199
they're together, you know, in this cramp photo booth, kind

911
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:08,559
of shot from the camera's pov in the photo booth,

912
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,800
and you know, it goes through the first time, and

913
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,440
he's just furious with her. It's like no, no, no,

914
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,960
we're a couple that likes each other but doesn't touch.

915
00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:22,559
We span time together and just just says that in

916
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:26,639
minor derivations throughout the entire thing. You know that he's

917
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,679
interestingly enough because this will you know circle background. He's

918
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,719
furious with her for wasting his money, right, the idea

919
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,159
that we had to go through this process of getting photos.

920
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,320
It's like fifty cents, right, in consequential amount of money. Uh.

921
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:44,679
But yes, they they you know a bit, they leave

922
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:47,960
the bowling alley, uh and you know head out to

923
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:50,440
I believe they go to Denny's next. Is that the next?

924
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:51,199
Speaker 2: Yes?

925
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:51,719
Speaker 3: Yes?

926
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 4: And so this is a again we see you know

927
00:57:57,559 --> 00:58:00,599
both you know, kind of Chekhov school portrait and this

928
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,119
kind of view of you know, Billy as this this

929
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:10,119
kind of social outcast, because you know, while they're there,

930
00:58:11,519 --> 00:58:15,800
he runs into this girl, right, the girl from the photo,

931
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,280
and we find out that not only has she played,

932
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:24,440
it's this kind of like comically awful shallow person dating

933
00:58:24,599 --> 00:58:31,159
some like like soulless corporate suit. You know it even

934
00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:33,400
kind of taunting. Billy is like, oh, you're that weirdo

935
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,719
who followed me around. I don't even know your name.

936
00:58:36,159 --> 00:58:38,599
And you know, he's having this sort of hushed conversation

937
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:41,679
with Laila while the other couple is making out in

938
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,760
the back in this Denny's and it gets kind of

939
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,400
more and more over the top, and it's never again,

940
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:50,599
it's all out of focus really, So you're like watching

941
00:58:50,679 --> 00:58:53,880
this like very hushed, serious conversation while there's just this

942
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:59,400
like flailing going on in the background. Again, Uh, incredibly

943
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:05,559
uncomfortab Well, you know, they leave and they head basically

944
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:09,400
you know, one of the things that they've talked about, uh,

945
00:59:09,519 --> 00:59:12,320
you know, while they're driving around, and while she's driving

946
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,960
him around in her car is you know, she says like, oh,

947
00:59:16,039 --> 00:59:17,440
you know, like do you want to come back to

948
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:21,239
my place? He you know, kind of throws her off,

949
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,400
says no, and well we're at Denny's. He's been you know,

950
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,440
constantly looking at the clock right trying to figure out like, okay,

951
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:31,360
like when can I go to this this I think

952
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,480
it's the strip club like off the side of the

953
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:38,079
highway where this buffalo Bill's retired kicker you know, owns.

954
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,400
And so, you know, when they leave the Denny's right.

955
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,559
He basically like says like all right, like we're done,

956
00:59:44,679 --> 00:59:47,960
you can go home now, goes to the payphone, calls

957
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,559
this strip club and finds out, oh, the guy's not

958
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:53,239
into not He doesn't come in until two am. It's

959
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,559
like eight or whatever. He's like, all right, fine, I

960
00:59:56,599 --> 00:59:58,760
guess we can go get a hotel. They go back

961
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:03,320
to again. It just absolutely horrible hole in the wall motel.

962
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,480
Like it's it's just grim and dirty, and the whole

963
01:00:07,519 --> 01:00:12,599
thing is like it almost has this green cast to it. Yeah,

964
01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:15,719
and you know, the two of them go back. Clearly

965
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:19,519
she is envisioning, you know, romantic entanglement. He is not

966
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,360
at all. There's a very funny moment where he wants

967
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,920
to go take a bath and so you know, he

968
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,320
gets into the he gets into the bath and she's like, oh, hey,

969
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,920
you know, can I come in? And he's just aghast.

970
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,719
He's like, no, you cannot, you know, I want to

971
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,599
be in the bath. And it's it's again, there's never

972
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:40,800
any time for this, you know, to be comedic. It's

973
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,360
just sort of something you notice. But you know, as

974
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,400
she sort of wears him down, we see this you

975
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,239
know evolution where it's like okay, we can come in,

976
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,960
but you can't look. So she's like, you know, got

977
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,440
her hands over her eyes, and then you know, it

978
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:55,599
kind of cuts to the next stage of the conversation.

979
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,760
They're in the bath together and you see her, you know,

980
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,119
presumably wearing and then the pants over to Billy and

981
01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:08,639
he's wearing a shirt. It's just a very funny, like

982
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,559
background joke through the whole thing. But as that, you know,

983
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:15,599
as that develops, right, the two of them, I mean

984
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:18,159
literally just sit in or like lay in bed next

985
01:01:18,199 --> 01:01:20,119
to each other. Again, they're they're sort of shot in

986
01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:23,199
this way where you can see he is incredibly uncomfortable

987
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:25,440
with this. He's sort of you know, arms together on

988
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,679
the opposite side. But you know, ultimately the time comes

989
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,480
for him to go to you know, confront the man

990
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:38,920
who sent him to jail maybe, and so as he

991
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:42,320
he gets up to leave, you know, she's like, hey, like,

992
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,000
what are you doing? You know, where are you going?

993
01:01:44,039 --> 01:01:45,920
AND's go, you know, I was going to bring you

994
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:49,440
if I bring you some coffee, something that she had

995
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:52,039
expressed interest in earlier, and she says like, okay, we'll

996
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:54,000
just like if you're not going to come back, just

997
01:01:54,039 --> 01:01:57,320
tell me. He's like, yeah, I'll come back, and while

998
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,039
going through his items in you know, this locker, this

999
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:03,079
bowling alley, he pulled out, you know, a tiny little

1000
01:02:03,079 --> 01:02:05,480
pocket pistol, right like one of those tiny little Saturday

1001
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:09,800
night specials. It is, again, kind of comediically small, and he's,

1002
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,400
you know, as he walks out of the hotel, which

1003
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,920
we realize now is across the street from this strip club. Uh,

1004
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,760
you know, we see him pull out the gun and

1005
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,239
is you know, as he walks in, he calls Goon again.

1006
01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:25,480
Now I don't remember what Goon's actual name is, but

1007
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,480
a major theme in their interaction Rocky, yes, is that

1008
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:32,119
Goon doesn't want to be called Goon anymore. He wants

1009
01:02:32,159 --> 01:02:34,920
to be called Rocky, and Billy has been making fun

1010
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,599
of him the entire time, again being very cruel to

1011
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:41,719
this disabled man. Ironically enough, by the way, I don't

1012
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:45,599
you notice this, One of the things he criticizes Goon

1013
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:48,920
slash Rocky for is always doing exactly what his mother

1014
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:51,800
tells him to, which I thought was a very interesting

1015
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,280
thing that you know, Billy identifies that in Goon, not

1016
01:02:55,480 --> 01:03:03,159
in his own experience, but he stands outside and basically,

1017
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,800
you know, says, you know, all right, good, like you

1018
01:03:06,119 --> 01:03:08,960
can have all my stuff, kind of signaling that he's

1019
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:12,880
going in on a one way mission. So we've covered

1020
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,960
a lot of ground there and before we get into

1021
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:18,440
kind of the the climax, I'm curious if there's anything

1022
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:19,079
you wanted to add.

1023
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, because one of the few things that

1024
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:28,159
I've I made some notes about was this issue of time.

1025
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:35,840
It pops up again and again and again. Where it

1026
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:41,239
really is made obvious in that scene in the little

1027
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,519
photo booth where he's saying something about you know, the present.

1028
01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:49,840
He's screaming at her to put on some sort of

1029
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,239
facial expression that will evidence this idea of we span time,

1030
01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:59,000
we're married, that's not you know, not you're a whore,

1031
01:03:59,519 --> 01:04:01,400
not now any of this other stuff. Now you want

1032
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,119
to kiss me, We spend time, and he hits this,

1033
01:04:04,639 --> 01:04:07,880
hits this beat over and over and over. There's you

1034
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:08,039
know