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Speaker 5: thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
Speaker 5: all things Mollistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, deep
Speaker 5: part of it. Paul, Tom Talk Gun Now. Here's Tom.
Speaker 6: Welcome again to another edition of gun Talk. I am
Speaker 6: Tom Gresham, your host. We're going to be talking about
Speaker 6: an awful lot of things today. Some news that has
Speaker 6: been breaking, some interesting things, some controversies on the internet.
Speaker 6: I mean, people are just losing their minds over a
Speaker 6: thing with Staccato, the Fire's company. And then we're going
Speaker 6: to be talking about some cool gear as well. A
Speaker 6: lot of things going on. I'm just telling you to
Speaker 6: be fair. We're in the middle of some of this
Speaker 6: and some of the information we have is fresh, it's
Speaker 6: new and maybe not quite complete. Okay, fair enough, all right,
Speaker 6: So here's what's going on. About a week ago in Texas,
Speaker 6: Judge Wesley Hendick Hendricks of the US District Court for
Speaker 6: the Northern District of Texas held that the National Firearms
Speaker 6: Act as NFA it's registration and approval requirements for suppressors,
Speaker 6: short barrel rifles, and short barrel shotguns exceeded Congress's constitutional
Speaker 6: authority after Congress eliminated the NFA transfer tax on those things.
Speaker 6: So remember in the one Big Beautiful Bill, we got
Speaker 6: the tax reduced to zero on suppressors, short barrel rifles
Speaker 6: and short barrel shotguns, and some people said that it's
Speaker 6: not enough. Everybody said, just wait, wait, wait, wait, it's
Speaker 6: a building block system. Once we get rid of the tax,
Speaker 6: we can go back and say, hey, you know what
Speaker 6: NFA was actually a tax. It's a registration based on
Speaker 6: a tax, and now that there's no tax, probably there
Speaker 6: shouldn't be an NFA registration requirement. Well that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 6: So the judge ruled that, yeah, under that provision, not
Speaker 6: a second AMENDMIC case it's a tax case. You cannot
Speaker 6: require the registration of suppressor's shortbear rifles and shortbail shotguns.
Speaker 6: So he put that order in on August the fifth,
Speaker 6: but he put a pause on it, called a stay.
Speaker 2: He said, for a week.
Speaker 6: This injunction is not going to go into effect, to
Speaker 6: allow the government, the Department of Justice, ample time to
Speaker 6: come in and file an appeal on the stay. Well,
Speaker 6: that week went by, the clock was ticking, everybody was watching,
Speaker 6: and the government decided not to appeal the stay. This
Speaker 6: is important, not just the stay. They still have the
Speaker 6: ability to appeal the decision for another sixty days, but
Speaker 6: by not appealing this stay, then the injunction goes into effect.
Speaker 6: And so as of that moment, when the clock hits
Speaker 6: zero at midnight, you can buy suppressors in a number
Speaker 6: of states without the Form four, without asking permission of
Speaker 6: the government. You just go into a store and buy it.
Speaker 6: It's treated as a firearm. You do a forty four
Speaker 6: seventy through the background check, and I'm guessing in states
Speaker 6: where your constial carry permit functions for that you don't
Speaker 6: even have to submit the background check. You to show
Speaker 6: your constille carry permit and walk out with a suppression
Speaker 6: that's not registered to the federal government. So that's what
Speaker 6: was going on, and it is a big deal. I
Speaker 6: mean it's a huge deal. Look, the NFA, the National
Speaker 6: Farms Actor, has been in effect for ninety two years
Speaker 6: and now at least for these things in some states,
Speaker 6: for some people it's gone. Well what do I mean
Speaker 6: by those limitations, Well, the states still have state laws
Speaker 6: about suppressors. Those laws still apply, so you've got to
Speaker 6: know what the laws are in your state. Also, this
Speaker 6: order does not apply to everybody in the United States
Speaker 6: through America. It applies only to the members of the
Speaker 6: organizations that file the lawsuits, actually two lawsuits combined. Ryan
Speaker 6: was able to grab an interview with Dave Mathindi from
Speaker 6: Silencer's shop.
Speaker 2: They were one of the plaintiffs.
Speaker 6: And understand that this interview took place like hours after
Speaker 6: this all went into effect, and so it was all
Speaker 6: very fresh and there may be a couple of things
Speaker 6: in this interview. They're not quite up to snuff and
Speaker 6: we're learning more about it. Let me just say this
Speaker 6: on the front end. If you are a member, either
Speaker 6: past or present or future, you can join right now
Speaker 6: and be covered under this a member of the Gun
Speaker 6: Owners of America, the Citizens Committee for the Rights Keeping
Speaker 6: Bare Arms, or the Texas State Rifle Association, then you
Speaker 6: are covered under this, and you can go into the
Speaker 6: store and just buy a silencer without any of the
Speaker 6: federal stuff. No tax stamp, no fingerprints, no photographs. Just
Speaker 6: buy the thing and walk out the door.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 6: So that's what's going on. It's huge news, but it's
Speaker 6: developing news. The one thing I would say is, don't
Speaker 6: rush out until you have figured out exactly if you
Speaker 6: are covered under this, and there will be gun stores
Speaker 6: you're going to say, you know, I'm not gonna do
Speaker 6: this yet until I get some more guidance from the ATF.
Speaker 6: I get it, I understand it. It makes sense. Here's
Speaker 6: that interview that Ryan got with Dave Metheenie from Silencer
Speaker 6: Shop a couple of days ago.
Speaker 3: All Right, welcome in.
Speaker 4: This is a special one because there is news breaking
Speaker 4: and you guys want to know about it. So we've
Speaker 4: got kind of like from the horse's mouth. We've got
Speaker 4: Dave Methini from Silencer Shop. You're the CEO, Dave. You guys,
Speaker 4: is like the NFA done, you sue the government one
Speaker 4: I mean, everyone's going, what the hell's going on right now?
Speaker 3: I mean, just give us the quick update.
Speaker 7: Yeah, seriously, you summed it up. Mostly we did win.
Speaker 7: NFA is not done. This is a step, but it's
Speaker 7: for a lot of people. It's the step that matters,
Speaker 7: no more registration to the end customer. In a lot
Speaker 7: of cases, not all, but a lot of people are
Speaker 7: covered under this.
Speaker 4: You guys kind of brought this about because when the
Speaker 4: two hundred dollars tax stamp went away, it was kind
Speaker 4: of like, wait a minute, what are we registering that we've.
Speaker 3: Paid a zero dollar tax for? And so I guess
Speaker 3: where are we at today?
Speaker 4: Because as of twelve oh one am, you guys, I mean,
Speaker 4: I'll let you tell, what did you guys do at
Speaker 4: twelve oh one am?
Speaker 7: Seriously that it was the first transferred legal transfer, i
Speaker 7: should say, of unregistered silencers in over ninety years.
Speaker 8: Honestly, it was super fun, a ton of energy. It
Speaker 8: was a lot of fun. Twelve oh one hand those
Speaker 8: cans to those guys.
Speaker 7: And normally I'm like, I'm one to sit in the
Speaker 7: back and let other people do all this stuff.
Speaker 8: I was like, man, I want to be part of this.
Speaker 8: This is history, right? It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is basically silencer shop transferred some silencers
Speaker 4: just using a forty four to seventy three?
Speaker 8: Is that how you did it exactly? Just treated it
Speaker 8: just like a firearm?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 4: So is that I guess here's the big question for
Speaker 4: people listening, is that how it is going forward?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: Can people just run out and you know, pick out
Speaker 4: a silencer and run a background check and walk out
Speaker 4: with it?
Speaker 7: For a lot of people, absolutely that is actually the case.
Speaker 7: But there you have to keep in mind this is
Speaker 7: an injunction and the judge who was not allowed to
Speaker 7: issue a nationwide injunction, so you had the sets of
Speaker 7: the limits on it. The limits in this case are
Speaker 7: actually pretty broad. A lot of people are covered, but
Speaker 7: the main points are is GOA members fract members.
Speaker 8: It's not one hundred percent clear if that's.
Speaker 7: Any member or members that were members as of the
Speaker 7: date of the injunction. That's something that we're clarifying and
Speaker 7: that I'm hoping that goes to all GA members because
Speaker 7: that would actually mean all you have to do is
Speaker 7: join the GA and you're in and I'll tell you
Speaker 7: what I just want to throw out there GA. They
Speaker 7: are awesome support GA no matter what right. But the
Speaker 7: also if you're a GOARA a FRACT member. A FRACT
Speaker 7: applies more to companies. If you're buying a silencer code
Speaker 7: or a B and T suppressor, those are actually covered.
Speaker 7: So in those two cases you don't have to worry
Speaker 7: about this. If you're a silencer shop customer or a
Speaker 7: Palmetto State Armory customer. So if you're buying from US,
Speaker 7: Palmetto State or one of our dealers who bought it
Speaker 7: from us, you're covered. So that's the that's crazy to
Speaker 7: me to think that that's how.
Speaker 8: This is written.
Speaker 7: There are fifteen states that are excluded from this, so
Speaker 7: that's where you have to be kind of careful, and
Speaker 7: some states you would not expect, like Georgia for example,
Speaker 7: if you live in Georgia, you're covered under the injunction,
Speaker 7: but state law.
Speaker 8: Says if you don't register with a Form four you're
Speaker 8: a felon. Because of that.
Speaker 7: In Georgia and a fourteen other states fifteen total, you
Speaker 7: have to register using a Form FOAR.
Speaker 4: Still, if your state has their own set of regulations,
Speaker 4: that still applies, and so you're going to still have
Speaker 4: to go through those regulations.
Speaker 3: There's hopes. I have some questions that have come up.
Speaker 4: A lot of people are asking questions, can someone make
Speaker 4: his own silence for today without filling out a form?
Speaker 7: Seriously, if you're if you were in one of the
Speaker 7: states where you can do that, where you're not one
Speaker 7: of these fifteen states, and you're goa member, right, then yes,
Speaker 7: you have to be in a protected class for this
Speaker 7: to be in effect.
Speaker 8: Right, that is a critical piece of this.
Speaker 3: Explain that part, Dave.
Speaker 8: This isn't a blanket injunction. It covers it's a huge
Speaker 8: protected class, but it only covers people in that protected class.
Speaker 7: Like I said, Gooa, frack uh salncer Co, B and
Speaker 7: T silencers, buy from silencer Shop, buy from Palmetto State Art.
Speaker 7: Those are your protected classes. So it's a they're broad
Speaker 7: protected classes. But it's not one hundred percent right. That's
Speaker 7: that's why I've been saying over and over again, this
Speaker 7: isn't one hundred percent when right. This is a step,
Speaker 7: but we'll get there, We'll get to one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: What about private sales of silencers? I mean, because I
Speaker 4: live in Louisiana, you can you can sell a gun
Speaker 4: to someone privately without running a background check. If my
Speaker 4: uncle wanted to buy a gun from me, you know,
Speaker 4: he gives me money, I give him a gun, and
Speaker 4: it's done because he's not.
Speaker 3: A prohibited person. Is that the case for silencers for people?
Speaker 7: Actually no, And that's a case that's explicitly excluded. So
Speaker 7: if you have let's say, you go to your dealer,
Speaker 7: you buy the silencer on a forty four seventy three,
Speaker 7: so that comes out of the registry. At that point,
Speaker 7: the silencer is no longer registered. That you cannot sell
Speaker 7: that silencer to somebody else unless you put the silencer
Speaker 7: back into the registry. So that's a case that is,
Speaker 7: like I said, explicitly not covered.
Speaker 8: That's right.
Speaker 7: There's going to be some confusion here, right, There's this
Speaker 7: is a it's not a blanket.
Speaker 8: Everybody's covered. It is not that and.
Speaker 7: ATF is going to have some stuff to define, especially
Speaker 7: on that private side.
Speaker 4: There is still a lot that has to be worked out, right.
Speaker 4: I Mean everyone's kind of gone, well, let's we're just
Speaker 4: free and clear, let's go do our thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, what should people do today?
Speaker 4: Should we all wait until we get guidance from the ATF?
Speaker 4: I mean, what do you think that what's the advice
Speaker 4: for people right now?
Speaker 8: Seriously?
Speaker 7: If it for me personally, and this is me putting
Speaker 7: myself just watching what I've seen in legal stuff, I
Speaker 7: feel like this is like freedom Week, right, if a
Speaker 7: stay were to be reissued, if this were to be
Speaker 7: like just somebody put the cabash on this, I buy
Speaker 7: before that happens, right, That's I'm not saying it's going
Speaker 7: to happen. I had no indication that it's going to do.
Speaker 7: I would want it, I'd register, can't. I mean, that's
Speaker 7: just me personally. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 4: What about short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, any other weapons?
Speaker 3: How do those apply in this case?
Speaker 7: Yeah, short borrow shotguns, short brow rifles pretty much the
Speaker 7: exact same conditions as the silencers. Accept it's twenty two
Speaker 7: states where you can't buy them, whereas with silencers is
Speaker 7: fit boon.
Speaker 8: It's just state laws. The way state laws are interacting
Speaker 8: with this. If they had been and this.
Speaker 7: Is actually a weird upside of this, if they had
Speaker 7: been completely deregulated, then silencers would would become illegal in
Speaker 7: those states. So we would have fifteen states where silencers
Speaker 7: are now illegal completely, and we would have twenty two
Speaker 7: states where SBRs are now illegal completely. So this injunction
Speaker 7: at least gives people a route and we're trying to
Speaker 7: get these state laws fixed. I mean, this is like
Speaker 7: priority number one and it has been since spotched year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of steps to this, and it's
Speaker 4: not like you kind of just pointed out. It's not
Speaker 4: as simple and straightforward sometimes because there's kind of like
Speaker 4: dominoes that have to fall and there's kind of consequences
Speaker 4: of this. It's like, Okay, on a forty four to
Speaker 4: seventy three, one of the things you fill out is
Speaker 4: it a rifle? Is it a handgun? You know, is
Speaker 4: this an other now on a forty four to seventy three,
Speaker 4: or does the form have to be updated.
Speaker 8: It's another firearm. That part we'll get on.
Speaker 7: The dealers do have to run a background check, so
Speaker 7: just like it were any other firearm, Okay, this is
Speaker 7: the update.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's kind of a little bit of like, yes,
Speaker 4: we've got freedom, yes, but there are protected classes. There
Speaker 4: are certain retailers and manufacturers that are kind of covered
Speaker 4: underneath this right now. Obviously, the goal is to expand
Speaker 4: it out, so we've have complete and total freedom with
Speaker 4: this thing that we should have had for a long
Speaker 4: long time.
Speaker 3: But amazing news. Amazing news.
Speaker 2: All right, that's good information.
Speaker 6: But as I say, it was put out very early on,
Speaker 6: right after this decision was well went into effect. There's
Speaker 6: going to be more developing. We'll have more for you
Speaker 6: as we go forward. Go online, follow me on X
Speaker 6: I will have a lot of information. Because it's breaking.
Speaker 6: You don't want to get crosswise with the law on this.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, this is huge. It is freedom.
Speaker 6: It is ninety two years of having our gun rights
Speaker 6: quashed and now we are removing a lot of those.
Speaker 6: This is what progress looks like. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 6: You can weigh in on this. If you want to
Speaker 6: give me a shout, just call me a Tom Talk gun. Honestly,
Speaker 6: this is one of the biggest times we've ever had
Speaker 6: in reclaiming our Second Amendment rights. This is such a
Speaker 6: big deal with the judge striking down portions of the
Speaker 6: National Firearms Act. The National Firearms Act is ninety two
Speaker 6: years old. We've been fighting this for ninety two years.
Speaker 6: For those who said, well I want it all.
Speaker 2: I want it now. It takes time, and.
Speaker 6: Yeah, none of us wants it to take take time.
Speaker 6: We certainly didn't want it to take ninety two years.
Speaker 6: But this is the result of saying we will never quit,
Speaker 6: we will never stop, we will never give an inch,
Speaker 6: and we push push, push, and we spend our money.
Speaker 6: We've got to dig into our own pockets to fund
Speaker 6: this because we don't have any billionaires like Michael Bloomberg
Speaker 6: funding this stuff. If you have been watching this online,
Speaker 6: if you've been talking to your buddies, because I mean,
Speaker 6: the phone's been burning up. Everybody I know in the
Speaker 6: business is getting calls saying, well, can I buy a
Speaker 6: suppressor now without doing the registration?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Maybe for a lot of people, yes, for some people
Speaker 6: absolutely not.
Speaker 2: And you got to know the difference.
Speaker 6: If you are in one of those fifteen states that
Speaker 6: has state laws are prohibit it, no, you cannot. You
Speaker 6: still have to do the form for assuming you can
Speaker 6: even own a suppressor at all, And in some states
Speaker 6: you cannot. In other states you can buy a suppressor
Speaker 6: without the fingerprints, without the photograph, without the registration, without
Speaker 6: the form four without saying mother, may I probably, but
Speaker 6: you have to be buying from one of the named plaintiffs,
Speaker 6: soiunce for shop Palmina State Armory. Or you could be
Speaker 6: a member of one of the plaintiffs. These groups, the
Speaker 6: Gunners of America, the Texas I mean it's a Texas
Speaker 6: Rifle Association. I'll have to look that up. And the
Speaker 6: Citizens Committee for the Right Keeping of your Arms. A
Speaker 6: lot of people are leaving out that last one for
Speaker 6: fifteen bucks. You can join the Citizens Committee for one
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty bucks. You can get a life membership.
Speaker 6: Good group. They're actually doing a combo deal. You can
Speaker 6: get a Citizens Committee membership along with the Second Amendment Foundation.
Speaker 6: Put them both together for twenty five bucks. Put you
Speaker 6: into the class. And people say, well have but I
Speaker 6: wasn't a member when this was doesn't matter. It's current
Speaker 6: and future current and future members, so.
Speaker 2: You yeah.
Speaker 6: And Second Memdbent Foundation was not one of the parties
Speaker 6: on these cases, So being a member of SAF does
Speaker 6: not include you, and it doesn't make you part of
Speaker 6: this group. SAF is a party to other lawsuits because
Speaker 6: there are other lawsuits challenging the same thing, and we're
Speaker 6: waiting for those decisions to come in. So the Citizens Committee,
Speaker 6: which is a sister group of SAF, it was part
Speaker 6: of the Jensen case. SAF was not because it's doing
Speaker 6: some others. NRA was not a party to these, but
Speaker 6: it was funding them, which is a whole different deal.
Speaker 6: So they were behind them and pushing them and putting
Speaker 6: money into them, but not a named party. It gets complicated.
Speaker 6: I would in Look, a lot of people rushed the
Speaker 6: stores to buy these. I get it, I understand it.
Speaker 6: And if your store will sell you one and you
Speaker 6: are a member of one of these groups, and you
Speaker 6: don't have to do the paperwork, then buy it. Some
Speaker 6: people are a little afraid of that and say, well,
Speaker 6: but what if they change it and want to come
Speaker 6: back and say, Okay, you were actually not covered. I
Speaker 6: don't think that's gonna happen. I know there are a
Speaker 6: lot of gun stores. You say, yeah, I'm not doing
Speaker 6: this yet. I'm just no, I'm going to file a
Speaker 6: Form four. If you want to buy a suppressor from me,
Speaker 6: you got to do a Form four. Why Because they
Speaker 6: don't have any guidance yet from the ATF. And people
Speaker 6: say well I shouldn't have to ask permission. No, you shouldn't.
Speaker 6: You could also say it might be considered foolish to
Speaker 6: say I'm just going to charge ahead without knowing what
Speaker 6: the parameters are going to be. We're waiting for ATF's
Speaker 6: rules on this, they're guidance on this, so we'll see
Speaker 6: what they say.
Speaker 2: In the meantime.
Speaker 6: I would say that this may be like Freedom Week
Speaker 6: in California, and maybe you rush out and grab it now,
Speaker 6: or they slam the door shut, because I don't think
Speaker 6: they're going to make it retroactive if they change their minds.
Speaker 6: I also have a little inside information on where the
Speaker 6: government is going on this in terms of you know,
Speaker 6: they still have sixty days to appeal. They didn't appeal
Speaker 6: to stay, but they still have sixty days. I'll give
Speaker 6: you that when we come back. Also, Soccados stirred up
Speaker 6: the Internet with its letter dumping half of its mempious dealers.
Speaker 2: And we'll cover that all right. Here's a lot of
Speaker 2: that going on right now.
Speaker 6: Obviously we have the news about suppressors and SBRs and
Speaker 6: SBS's and yeah, you don't have to do the paperwork
Speaker 6: or form register your suppressor, but we might want to
Speaker 6: hold off on jumping into the deep end on that
Speaker 6: more details coming. At the same time, there are other
Speaker 6: things going on, and something blew up on the internet
Speaker 6: this past week and people are their minds over it,
Speaker 6: and look, I get it. Sometimes people just really like
Speaker 6: to be outraged about things at the same time where
Speaker 6: there's smoke off and there's fire.
Speaker 2: And here's what happened.
Speaker 6: Staccato, the company that makes the twenty elevens a double
Speaker 6: stack nineteen elevens, send a letter out to a couple
Speaker 6: of hundred dealers saying you are, as of this moment,
Speaker 6: cut off.
Speaker 2: You're no longer a dealer.
Speaker 6: Furthermore, not only are you cut off, we're canceling all
Speaker 6: of your existing back orders, not going to be shipping
Speaker 6: you any orders. No purchase orders will be accepted. You
Speaker 6: got to pay off your bill in fifteen days, got
Speaker 6: to remove all the Staccato branding logos and any references
Speaker 6: identifying your business as an authorized Stacato dealer. It just
Speaker 6: hit people wrong, and so I thought, well, you know,
Speaker 6: why don't we actually talk to the people involved. Awful
Speaker 6: lot of speculation going on, So I did exactly that.
Speaker 6: All right, We're fortunate enough to have the co CEO
Speaker 6: of Staccato with us right now, Buck Pearson, Buck, I
Speaker 6: appreciate your time. I mean, I know that you're kind
Speaker 6: of busy right now.
Speaker 13: Well, fortunately I'm busy all the time, so this really
Speaker 13: isn't abnormal.
Speaker 14: But I appreciate you making the time to allow me
Speaker 14: to come on.
Speaker 2: You bet well.
Speaker 6: Obviously, Staccato is an aspirational brand. It is a it
Speaker 6: was a category. Now the category has become very large,
Speaker 6: making the twenty elevens, the double Stack, ninete elevens. But
Speaker 6: now you've got locations in Texas and Nevada and you're
Speaker 6: just getting into all sorts of things. But now we
Speaker 6: got this letter that went out to dealers, to a
Speaker 6: whole bunch of dealers basically saying you are cut off
Speaker 6: as of this moment, you're no longer an authorized Staccato dealer.
Speaker 2: And it goes on and on. What's the story, what's
Speaker 2: going on here?
Speaker 14: Yeah?
Speaker 13: So the real story is one that this is blown
Speaker 13: way out of proportion by an angry dealer and it
Speaker 13: was layered on top of some false statements that were made. Ultimately,
Speaker 13: what we have done is we want our dealer network
Speaker 13: to be an extension of our brand. We want our
Speaker 13: customers when they go into it. A dealer that's a
Speaker 13: Saccado dealer to have the absolute best possible customer experience
Speaker 13: they can have, and there's a large percentage of our
Speaker 13: dealers who are absolutely behind that.
Speaker 14: They have great customer service.
Speaker 13: Our customers who buy guns there call us tell us
Speaker 13: how great of an experience they had at these places,
Speaker 13: and they're just a pleasure to work with. Now, those
Speaker 13: dealers are not all just big, high volume dealers. A
Speaker 13: large portion of our existing three hundred and fifty remaining
Speaker 13: dealers are mom and pop.
Speaker 14: Stores that've been with us for a long time.
Speaker 13: There's a lot of medium to kind of larger size
Speaker 13: stores and dealers mixed in there and well as well.
Speaker 13: And then there's a lot of very high end, large
Speaker 13: footprint stores that have their own indoor ranges things like that.
Speaker 13: But what's unique about our network that we've retained is
Speaker 13: they all have exceptional customer service. They all believe in
Speaker 13: the vision of what we're trying to do to make
Speaker 13: our company not just a handgun company, but really a
Speaker 13: customer experience company, and they want to be part of it.
Speaker 14: Now.
Speaker 13: I will say that a lot of the dealers that
Speaker 13: we have removed. Some of them are new ide less
Speaker 13: than a year. Some of them have been with us
Speaker 13: for a few years, all sorts of reasons. They don't
Speaker 13: want to be part of that, and some of them
Speaker 13: got upset when we remove them, which is okay. They
Speaker 13: have the right to run their business the way they
Speaker 13: see fit. And the reality is is that in this
Speaker 13: day and age on the Internet, anyone can say anything
Speaker 13: and it's basically you're guilty until you're proven innocent, and
Speaker 13: the entirety of the Internet will come to the defense
Speaker 13: of something they think is not fair and do no
Speaker 13: fact checking on it.
Speaker 14: Okay, I've had a little bit of all of that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I saw the online postings of a gun store
Speaker 6: and there were some things in there that turned out
Speaker 6: to not be accurate. But having said that, I'm looking
Speaker 6: at the letter right now, and you know, honestly, I
Speaker 6: was to say, I think people who understand business say, look,
Speaker 6: you are free Estacado to make any changes you want
Speaker 6: to in your distribution system and do whatever you need
Speaker 6: to do to your dealer network. At the same time,
Speaker 6: the comment I'm getting for people is, yeah, you got
Speaker 6: the right to do that. It's not what you did,
Speaker 6: it's the way you did it and telling people, Okay,
Speaker 6: you are, as of this moment no longer a dealer.
Speaker 6: We're not going to honor your orders, even though you
Speaker 6: may have placed orders for your customers. We canceled all
Speaker 6: of your existing back orders. No products are eligible for
Speaker 6: a return, no new orders will be accepted. You got
Speaker 6: to take down your branding. It's like these are people
Speaker 6: who have money on the line, and it sure seems
Speaker 6: like you pull the rug out from under well.
Speaker 13: And a big piece of this is stuff that we
Speaker 13: would not go into specifics and name dealers by name,
Speaker 13: as far as not returning inventory that is part of
Speaker 13: the dealer contract they signed. So eighty percent of that
Speaker 13: letter is reiterating things that they knew when they signed
Speaker 13: the dealer contract to come on board as a dealer.
Speaker 13: I will say that one of the biggest decisions and
Speaker 13: who we cut and how outside of customer service reports
Speaker 13: from individuals calling us, is paying invoices on time. There's
Speaker 13: a lot of dealers out there that want to use
Speaker 13: us as a credit union and not pay invoices on time.
Speaker 13: And I say that because most people don't know this,
Speaker 13: but we essentially it takes us about eight weeks to
Speaker 13: make one pistol, So eight weeks of labor, raw materials,
Speaker 13: shipping everything, right, sure, eight weeks that gun.
Speaker 14: Goes out the door.
Speaker 13: Our dealers, our dealer contractor net thirty terms, so once
Speaker 13: they receive it, they have thirty days to pay for it.
Speaker 13: A lot of dealers don't like that, or they want
Speaker 13: to sell the gun as fast as they can and
Speaker 13: then use that money to float purchases from other companies,
Speaker 13: bills or whatever they're going to do and not pay
Speaker 13: us back. So at any given time, if we have
Speaker 13: a high percentage of dealers that are not paying on time,
Speaker 13: we're essentially acting as a credit union with loans out
Speaker 13: that are outstanding for investments that we've already paid into.
Speaker 14: And that's not good for any business.
Speaker 6: You sure you're not saying that these two hundred dealers
Speaker 6: that got cut off are all late pay dealerships we have.
Speaker 14: At some point in time. Yes, it is fairly common.
Speaker 13: Now we have dealers that have paid late in the past,
Speaker 13: that had family issues, or they were closed on a
Speaker 13: holiday for some reason. Those are normal things and we
Speaker 13: always work around that. I'll use an example. There is
Speaker 13: one dealer that has not made a payment since October
Speaker 13: of last year.
Speaker 6: Why don't you just deal with that dealer instead of
Speaker 6: cutting off a couple hundred.
Speaker 14: Well, multiple reasons.
Speaker 13: One, all of them that we have cut have either
Speaker 13: had poor customer service, poor payments, abrasive with our personnel
Speaker 13: when we call and talk to them, abrasive with our
Speaker 13: customer service, sales teams.
Speaker 14: All of that, all of them. Yes. The other issue
Speaker 14: is we have built the business.
Speaker 13: Of the pistol side of our business ahead of schedule,
Speaker 13: were where we wanted to be.
Speaker 14: It grew much faster than we thought it would be.
Speaker 13: We want to be able to support the dealers that
Speaker 13: we have in our network at a much greater level.
Speaker 14: Than just shipping them products.
Speaker 13: We want to be holding events there, We want to
Speaker 13: be doing all these things to help those dealers grow.
Speaker 13: And a lot of dealers don't want us being involved
Speaker 13: in that, are having any interactions with the customers that
Speaker 13: come in their store. So it's a shifting business model really, yeah,
Speaker 13: and that makes sense.
Speaker 6: And like I said, I don't know of anybody who
Speaker 6: has a problem with that. It's just honestly, it's just
Speaker 6: the letter, the tone of the letter. It's like you're
Speaker 6: a cutoff as of this moment. You may have orders
Speaker 6: with us that you have taken from a customer, We're
Speaker 6: going to cut those off as well. In essence, you
Speaker 6: may be a mom and pop store, but we don't care.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's what it sounds.
Speaker 14: Like, and it probably could have been warded. That was
Speaker 14: not the intent of the tone.
Speaker 13: The intent of the tone was taking the parts verbatim
Speaker 13: out of the dealer agreements have been signed by both
Speaker 13: parties and restating them so that they understand that this
Speaker 13: is something they signed. This is the repercussions of not
Speaker 13: meeting their endo, the agreements and things like that. I
Speaker 13: don't disagree, it can be misconstrued in the wrong way,
Speaker 13: and I understand.
Speaker 14: Some people's pushback with that.
Speaker 13: That being said, there's also no dealers on that list
Speaker 13: that we remove that don't have other dealers in the
Speaker 13: same local area. It's not like we're pulling things out
Speaker 13: so people can't find our guns. We're not getting rid
Speaker 13: of all our dealers so people can only find them
Speaker 13: on our website. And there's a lot of things that
Speaker 13: have been said that are just kind of coming from
Speaker 13: left field and not necessarily true at all.
Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, I mean, I just i'd look at the
Speaker 6: dealer network and FFL's out there. You know, the ecosystem
Speaker 6: of the gun business is not just manufacturer and store.
Speaker 6: It's also the customers, and it is the feeling of
Speaker 6: belonging and being part of it. Obviously, that's what you're
Speaker 6: trying to foster. This same time, there's this and you
Speaker 6: understand it. There is this danger of pushback, a blowback
Speaker 6: on the internet. I've seen it before, I mean way
Speaker 6: back pretty much put Smith and Wesson out the door
Speaker 6: and under the table. They had to get purchased by
Speaker 6: somebody else when they blew it online. And I'm just
Speaker 6: watching this blow up right now and going, man, just
Speaker 6: they could get bad.
Speaker 13: It could And I think this is going to take
Speaker 13: a lot of transparency from our side going forward on
Speaker 13: why we do the things we do. Like I said earlier,
Speaker 13: you know, airing other businesses dirty laundry is not something
Speaker 13: we want to do and never will do by name.
Speaker 3: But ultimately, you.
Speaker 14: Have to pick partners who work within a partnership.
Speaker 13: And believe in what you're doing and want to provide
Speaker 13: the best customer experience they can, And that's who we
Speaker 13: want to invest our time and effort into not people
Speaker 13: who generally don't like us, don't have good customer service,
Speaker 13: don't want to adhere to the contracts they.
Speaker 14: Signed, etc.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where do you go from here?
Speaker 13: Serving the people that we are investing in our dealers
Speaker 13: that we do have.
Speaker 14: So I'm sure you've seen some of our dealers.
Speaker 13: Have actually come out and made their own post online
Speaker 13: about how great we are to work with and how
Speaker 13: they're super happy that we're continuing with them and that there's.
Speaker 14: More to come at their stores.
Speaker 13: What we want to do is be the company that's
Speaker 13: actually able to support those stores.
Speaker 14: And that takes the right sizing, that takes the right.
Speaker 13: Store from a mindset perspective as far as what they
Speaker 13: want to provide for their customer, And that takes us
Speaker 13: proving that what we're saying is true and actually following
Speaker 13: through and doing that with those dealers, because they'll be
Speaker 13: the very first ones to come out publicly if we
Speaker 13: don't support.
Speaker 14: Them the way that we're saying we're going to right now.
Speaker 6: Well, and it all makes sense, I mean, I understand
Speaker 6: where you're going. It is an aspirational brand. You have
Speaker 6: established Tocado as a not just a gun company, as
Speaker 6: you say, but a company that provides experience throughout the
Speaker 6: whole range of whether it's the fire of itself, the
Speaker 6: purchasing experience, an experience, on and on. I mean, I
Speaker 6: will tell you I look at Sicado as being the
Speaker 6: red bull in terms of marketing and all. I mean,
Speaker 6: you guys just do a fabulous job. So I get
Speaker 6: where you're going with this, And I guess this is
Speaker 6: just a whether you call it a hiccup or a
Speaker 6: speed bump in the road, I think you know you
Speaker 6: got to get past this letter and the reaction to it.
Speaker 14: Yep.
Speaker 13: And the other reality too is and I can say
Speaker 13: this because I started in the SDI days. I've been
Speaker 13: here for about nine years now. Everyone was very vocal
Speaker 13: about how we were going to fail because we were
Speaker 13: starting to do things different back in twenty eighteen and
Speaker 13: twenty nineteen. Nobody really thought what we said we were
Speaker 13: going to do we were actually going to do and
Speaker 13: also be successful a lot. And we have kind of
Speaker 13: proved that over time, and a lot of people don't
Speaker 13: like that because.
Speaker 14: They were proven wrong.
Speaker 13: And I see a lot of people in the comments
Speaker 13: section that I remember seeing in the comment section back
Speaker 13: in the STI days saying the exact same kind.
Speaker 14: Of things about us, even though they weren't true then either.
Speaker 13: And I think the most important thing we have to
Speaker 13: do as a company is be transparent and show that
Speaker 13: we truly mean what we say when it comes to
Speaker 13: the customer service, customer experience, and supporting our dealer network
Speaker 13: like they're one of our customers, because ultimately they are
Speaker 13: who you pick as a dealer is an extension of
Speaker 13: your brand to brand business like they represent you in
Speaker 13: the marketplace when you can't be there, and you have
Speaker 13: to have good partnerships for that to work fair.
Speaker 6: Enough, I mean, and I appreciate you explaining it. I
Speaker 6: hope you felt like this was a fair representation or
Speaker 6: a chance for you to explain this to people.
Speaker 13: Absolutely, and thank you for allowing me the time to
Speaker 13: kind of get the other side of the story a
Speaker 13: little bit.
Speaker 6: Well, that was an interesting interview. And look, I get
Speaker 6: it most people are not paying a lot of attention
Speaker 6: to this, but on the internet this has been blowing
Speaker 6: up and Staccato r upfolds some feathers. Having said that,
Speaker 6: I understand this. Staccato came out of a company called
Speaker 6: STI in Texas and they kind of established they weren't
Speaker 6: the first double stacked nineteen eleven. Okay, maybe I don't know,
Speaker 6: maybe Pair of Ordinance was, I'm not sure, but they
Speaker 6: promoted it, expanded it. It's what people think of when
Speaker 6: they think of double stacked nineteen elevens. Of course, now
Speaker 6: you have any number of companies making them. Springfield has them,
Speaker 6: Kimber has them, Te Sauce has them. I mean, everybody
Speaker 6: seems like everybody's got them now. And if there's a
Speaker 6: handgun maker that doesn't have it, they're probably working on
Speaker 6: it right now. And you can get them anywhere from
Speaker 6: one hundred thousand bucks to nine thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: You'll pay your money, take a choice.
Speaker 6: Just interesting to see what's going on there, and that
Speaker 6: the fact that Stacado is repositioning or maybe reinforcing their
Speaker 6: position in the marketplace with this. So anyway, I'm just
Speaker 6: going to give them an opportunity to come on and
Speaker 6: talk about that. Yet other news, as we say, the
Speaker 6: Department of Justice, that's our US Justice Department officially says
Speaker 6: that law abiding Americans can carry guns in post offices.
Speaker 6: In public post offices. The distinction is important because there
Speaker 6: are some post offices that are in federal buildings where,
Speaker 6: for instance, you'd have to go in maybe even have
Speaker 6: to go through security, or they are post offices on
Speaker 6: military basis and you can't carry there. But if it's
Speaker 6: generally open to the public, you can now carry in
Speaker 6: post office. Well what's the big deal up until now? Well,
Speaker 6: I guess I've had a different interpretation of their regulations.
Speaker 6: But then again, I didn't want to go put myself
Speaker 6: in jeopardy of a federal fellon name the post office,
Speaker 6: and the rigs said you can't carry a gun into
Speaker 6: a post office except that Actually what it said was except,
Speaker 6: oh yeah, you could couldn't carry unless it was incident
Speaker 6: to hunting or other lawful purposes. Well, I have, for
Speaker 6: twenty five or thirty years interpreted that as other lawful purposes,
Speaker 6: cause still carry is a lawful purpose. Self protection is
Speaker 6: a lawful purpose. That's been my position all along. I
Speaker 6: was hoping I never had to protect myself in court
Speaker 6: on that. But now the Department of Justice comes out
Speaker 6: and says, yes, self defense is qualifies as a lawful purpose,
Speaker 6: and you don't have to be defending yourself in the
Speaker 6: post office. You just have to be carrying for self defense.
Speaker 6: And now you are legal to carry into a post office.
Speaker 6: So for many, many years a lot of us have said, yeah,
Speaker 6: I got to take our guns off, leave them in
Speaker 6: the car.
Speaker 2: Don't like to do that.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, And by the way, you can't do that
Speaker 6: if you've parked in the parking lot of the post office,
Speaker 6: because that's the property. So you got to go park
Speaker 6: on the streets somewhere and then come into the post office.
Speaker 2: No more of that.
Speaker 6: If you can carry legally, you can carry into a
Speaker 6: post office. Mosta it's the public post office. Our number
Speaker 6: here is eighty six six. Talk Gun or Tom Talk
Speaker 6: Gun or open lines. If you've been doing some shooting,
Speaker 6: you've been too the range, bought a new gun, or
Speaker 6: maybe you're thinking about buying the suppressor and not having
Speaker 6: to do the farm. Give me a call, let me
Speaker 6: know what you're thinking, or if you've already done it. Hey,
Speaker 6: we just stumbled upon something I was not aware of
Speaker 6: this story. It'll be coming up in just a few
Speaker 6: minutes here. But evidently AMO supplies are lower than they
Speaker 6: have been recent passed, but prices have not gone up yet.
Speaker 6: We'll have a little bit more about that in just
Speaker 6: a few minutes. You definitely want to stay here for that.
Speaker 6: Let's go grab line two kindles with us out of
Speaker 6: South Dakota. Hey Kendle, you're on gun Talk. What's your
Speaker 6: take on thistacado thing.
Speaker 15: I think it's absolutely brilliant marketing. You know, was the
Speaker 15: elite brand for a long time, and now, you know,
Speaker 15: I'm going to my local gun store. There's brands I
Speaker 15: don't remember the names of them, but they were, you know,
Speaker 15: the twelve thousand, the eight thousand dollars pistols. You know,
Speaker 15: they looked like a staicado. I couldn't really tell them
Speaker 15: much difference to them in a soicado, but they were
Speaker 15: charging a whole lot more money than the staccato. And
Speaker 15: Chicago was on the verge of becoming like a production gun,
Speaker 15: you know, like a kimber Dock or Springfield, and they
Speaker 15: want to maintain their elite status. So you know, this
Speaker 15: is brilliant marketing. This way that they'll maintain that elite,
Speaker 15: they'll be able to bump their price up, you know,
Speaker 15: for the same exact pistol, you know, because as they'll
Speaker 15: be more elite again, you know, you'll.
Speaker 2: Have to go to a special store.
Speaker 15: Marketing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it is market That's where I made the point.
Speaker 6: I said, look, these guys are the Red Bull of
Speaker 6: marketing in the gun world, because red Bull they make
Speaker 6: a similar little drink, but they are fabulous at marketing
Speaker 6: the thing, and I think Staccato is doing that. And
Speaker 6: to your point, these stores become more exclusive. You'd get
Speaker 6: to go into an exclusive store which you can't get
Speaker 6: this gun yet just everywhere, and it becomes a little
Speaker 6: bit special and when you pull it out at the range,
Speaker 6: your buddies, I want to see.
Speaker 15: It right, Well, what's Chaccados? They realized they screwed up.
Speaker 15: They didn't charge enough. If they would have been charging
Speaker 15: the eight and the twelve thousand dollars, everything would have
Speaker 15: been fine. They just realized that there was there was
Speaker 15: more to grab. So so you know, the other companies
Speaker 15: were getting, you know, the eight to twelve thousand dollars
Speaker 15: for their pistols, which I can't tell is any better
Speaker 15: than the Sicado. You know that I can't tell the difference.
Speaker 6: So let me ask you, what's your prediction. Do you
Speaker 6: think Schcicado's going to end up having to raiseist prices?
Speaker 6: What are they are Scicado going to have to raise
Speaker 6: its prices.
Speaker 15: Now, oh yeah, sure they are. They want to grab
Speaker 15: that eight to twelve thousand dollars market too. Why are
Speaker 15: these that much on a pistol? Beats the heck out
Speaker 15: of me.
Speaker 6: But well, you know, I mean, honestly, it's like, you know,
Speaker 6: why would you pay more for a car, a truck
Speaker 6: or anything else? You go, Yeah, my toe Yota will
Speaker 6: do the same thing we had does, but I want that,
Speaker 6: And look.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the call.
Speaker 6: That is ultimately the bottom line on the why thing
Speaker 6: is because I want.
Speaker 2: It, I can afford it. I want it.
Speaker 6: Sometimes it's I want it, I can't afford it, but
Speaker 6: I'm going to buy it anyway. We've all, man, I
Speaker 6: got a whole drawer full of T shirts of that oney,
Speaker 6: I can't afford it, but I'm want to buy it anyway.
Speaker 2: Holy cal uh.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I mean, you got the Joseph Grays, you
Speaker 6: got to add less, you got you know, real expensive,
Speaker 6: which also have the less expensive double stack nineteen elevens,
Speaker 6: which we always call them twenty elevens.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Kleenex.
Speaker 6: Now, Chicato actually does have a trademark on the term
Speaker 6: twenty eleven, but nobody pays much attention to that these days.
Speaker 6: Interesting idea, though, Will they raise their prices? They didn't
Speaker 6: mention that. I didn't ask. I should have ask. Will
Speaker 6: they raise their prices as part of this marketing push
Speaker 6: to make them more exclusive?
Speaker 2: Very possibly? I don't know.
Speaker 6: I don't have any information about that. Don't say you know.
Speaker 6: Don't tell people that Tom said they're raising their prices.
Speaker 6: I have no idea that that's the case. But Kendall
Speaker 6: mentioned it, and I hadn't thought of it. But it's
Speaker 6: an interesting idea. They have actually been companies and products
Speaker 6: where they have increased sales by raising their prices and
Speaker 6: making them more desirable, maybe more elite. And we'll have
Speaker 6: to see. By the way, do you have.
Speaker 2: A double stack nineteen eleven? Which one do you have?
Speaker 6: I would love to get a few range of courts
Speaker 6: on both to see how you like them. Are they
Speaker 6: just for range use competition? Or do you actually carry
Speaker 6: a double stack? Nineteen eleven? Our number year is eight
Speaker 6: six six Talk Gunner, Tom, Talk gun. When we come back,
Speaker 6: we have less AMMO, but prices aren't up yet.