Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, being Frank, where the only way to
Speaker 1: be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank.
Speaker 1: We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Franklebono.
Speaker 1: What I'd like to thank you for once again joining
Speaker 1: us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast,
Speaker 1: where no conversations out of bounds, in all points of
Speaker 1: view are welcome. We're going live to tape on the
Speaker 1: twenty seventh of December, So I want to wish everybody
Speaker 1: at Merry Christmas, a happy Hanukkah, a happy Kwanza, whatever
Speaker 1: holiday you choose to celebrate, have a great one. You know,
Speaker 1: the passage of some birthdays is more significant than others,
Speaker 1: like reaching those involving certain significant milestones, such as the
Speaker 1: age of consent or getting the right to vote. Others
Speaker 1: take on a personal sentimental importance simply because of the
Speaker 1: significance of the number, like turning thirty, fifty or seventy,
Speaker 1: or perhaps there was a significant event in your life
Speaker 1: that made the year particularly important and memorable. Well, I
Speaker 1: feel the same way about the passage of calendar years too.
Speaker 1: The events that occurred in any given year often defined
Speaker 1: the significance of that time itself. Certainly, every calendar year
Speaker 1: provides changes that affect our daily lives, both in the
Speaker 1: present and future. But to what extent well, With the
Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty four rapidly approaching, it's that time
Speaker 1: again to feature the top stories for the year and
Speaker 1: the impact they may or may not have had on
Speaker 1: our lives. And who better to provide the expert analysis
Speaker 1: than Fordham University Professor of Mass Media Studies, frequent contributor
Speaker 1: Being Frank, and a man I'm proud to call colleague
Speaker 1: and friend, doctor Paul Levinson. Paul, thank you for once
Speaker 1: again joining us here on Being Frank. You're always welcome,
Speaker 1: as you well know.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks again for inviting me. It wouldn't seem like
Speaker 2: a holiday season, or it wouldn't seem like a time
Speaker 2: to celebrate if I wasn't a guest on your show,
Speaker 2: So thank you again.
Speaker 1: I always take the plugs, you know, I'm shameless that way.
Speaker 1: Somebody's got to do it, so I appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: you've had a very eventful year. Also, we're going to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that after the break too,
Speaker 1: I want you to share some of the accomplishments that
Speaker 1: you've had this year too, which I know has been
Speaker 1: a very special year for you. But let's talk about
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four and some of the more impactful stories.
Speaker 1: You gave me a list of eight. I'm going to
Speaker 1: add three more at the end, and we'll go in
Speaker 1: reverse order from relative importance. But they were all important
Speaker 1: in one way or another. So let's dissect the list.
Speaker 1: And I said, we'll start with number eight. And I
Speaker 1: find it very interesting that you chose a movie as
Speaker 1: a significant event in twenty twenty four, the just released
Speaker 1: I believe it was released on Christmas Day, the Bob
Speaker 1: Dylan bio pick a Complete Unknown, and you call it
Speaker 1: the best biopic ever made. Talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: why you feel that way and why it has significance
Speaker 1: beyond the fact of just a movie.
Speaker 2: Well, my wife Tina and I did see that movie
Speaker 2: on Christmas Day, and by the way, that's a tradition
Speaker 2: that Jewish people tend to do. We either eat in
Speaker 2: Chinese restaurants or go to the movies, So we were
Speaker 2: up holding that tradition. But the movie was really amazing
Speaker 2: and let me just say as a sort of brief
Speaker 2: preface to this that you know, a lot of people
Speaker 2: have a good time pointing out how the movie was
Speaker 2: not completely accurate, and I have news for everyone. Not
Speaker 2: only are biopics never completely accurate, even flat out documentaries
Speaker 2: aren't completely accurate because obviously the filmmaker, the television producer,
Speaker 2: the director makes it acision to leave certain things out
Speaker 2: because you can't cover everything, even a straight up in
Speaker 2: a straight up documentary. So granted that a complete unknown
Speaker 2: has a fair number of scenes in which words weren't
Speaker 2: actually said in real life, or the scenes themselves didn't happen,
Speaker 2: But here is what is good, better than good about
Speaker 2: the movie and really ranked true with me. First of all,
Speaker 2: there were two performances Edward Norton as Pete Seeger and
Speaker 2: Timothy Challamet as Bob Dylan, that were really at the
Speaker 2: top of just about any performance I've ever seen in
Speaker 2: any biopic. And obviously that's a situation which biopicks are vulnerable,
Speaker 2: because if you have an actor who doesn't have the
Speaker 2: right tone in a voice, who doesn't have the right gestures,
Speaker 2: obviously they're not going to have exactly the same face
Speaker 2: but that does take away from the biopic. And both
Speaker 2: of those gentlemen, Challa met Norton not only talk the part,
Speaker 2: but they also sang the parts. There was a lot
Speaker 2: of vocal performances in the movie, and I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, Norton, maybe he wasn't quite as good as
Speaker 2: Pete Seeger, but he was pretty close to Pete Seeger,
Speaker 2: and he had every gesture that Pete had. Yes. And
Speaker 2: you know, our kids went to the Fieldston School in
Speaker 2: the Bronx, and Pete Seeger was often a guest at
Speaker 2: that school. So I got to see Pete Seeger in person.
Speaker 2: And if you see the movie, and then you want
Speaker 2: to know what the real peat Seeger was like. There
Speaker 2: were dozens of videos of him. Just check those out.
Speaker 2: And you know, Elemet was a pretty good Dylan. Look,
Speaker 2: it's a hard part to do. Dylan was a real character.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I don't know Dylan in person, but
Speaker 2: I was convinced by Chalamet's performance and the Joan Baez part,
Speaker 2: which was also a central part of the movie. Joan
Speaker 2: Biez has I think a matchless voice. You know, no
Speaker 2: one that I know has the depth that Mollifluous quality
Speaker 2: that Joan Biez have. And she has a great range too,
Speaker 2: hitting really high notes and low notes everything in between.
Speaker 2: And the actress Barbara was really outstanding in the singing.
Speaker 2: She wasn't quite hitting the notes of the way Joan
Speaker 2: Baez did, but she was pretty good and pretty close.
Speaker 2: So all in all, I thought that was a great movie,
Speaker 2: and it is frankly the best bio pick I've seen
Speaker 2: because it hit so many true notes.
Speaker 1: You know, Paul, it is interesting Terry Thal, who wrote
Speaker 1: it was Dylan's first manager in New York, and you
Speaker 1: mentioned there were certain elements that are missing, and I
Speaker 1: read a great Rolling Stone article and it said, unfortunately
Speaker 1: Terry Thal's part is missing as his first manager because
Speaker 1: of time, etc. As you mentioned, they can't be entirely accurate.
Speaker 1: But she's been a guest on the show as she
Speaker 1: wrote a great book Mike Greenwich Village, Dave Bobb and
Speaker 1: Me about her marriage to Dave Van Ronk and the
Speaker 1: fact that Dylan, who couchsurfed, And that's also from what
Speaker 1: I understand, a little bit missing in the biopic that
Speaker 1: you know, he relied on the kindness of strangers, if
Speaker 1: you will, and that include CouchSurfing, and he often did
Speaker 1: on Terry Thal's and Dave Van Ronk's couch, So it
Speaker 1: would be interesting to bring her back on after hopefully
Speaker 1: she sees the movie as well, to get her impression,
Speaker 1: to see how accurate everything was too, because she was literally.
Speaker 2: There, absolutely right. I mean, the problem again is if
Speaker 2: somebody has more than one manager. It's very, very hard
Speaker 2: as it is, the movie is two and a half
Speaker 2: hours long to give both managers any role, and so
Speaker 2: this is a traditional thing. They combine wherever possible characters
Speaker 2: into the most salient character. By the way, David Brown
Speaker 2: of Rolling Stone, he didn't write that article, but he
Speaker 2: wrote a great book about the Greenwich village scene. So
Speaker 2: I recommend that to everyone. Last name is Brown, ends
Speaker 2: with an E. David is his first name.
Speaker 1: Great, well, let's return to our list. So it was
Speaker 1: number eight. Let's go to number seven. Really interesting. Kennedy
Speaker 1: returns to power. Okay, RFK Junior Robert Francis Kennedy Junior
Speaker 1: has been appointed, not approved, but has been appointed as
Speaker 1: Secretary of Health and Human Services. I believe is the
Speaker 1: whole title. Why is that significant? I guess from the
Speaker 1: standpoint of a it's a Kennedy and b he's a
Speaker 1: little on the different side. But why is this significant
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, personally, like many other people, I've
Speaker 2: always yearned for Kennedy to return to power. I was
Speaker 2: disappointed when Joe Kennedy, Bobby's oldest son, who was a
Speaker 2: congressman for a few years, basically left politics. I was
Speaker 2: disappointed when a younger Kennedy, who also from Massachusetts, was
Speaker 2: I think in the House of Representatives for at least
Speaker 2: one or two terms when he dropped out. I was
Speaker 2: really disappointed when Caroline Kennedy at one point she was
Speaker 2: thinking of running here in New York State and Kristin
Speaker 2: Jillibrand beat her out of the I guess in the primary.
Speaker 2: And I've definitely voted for Caroline Kennedy. So look, I'm
Speaker 2: someone who never got over the assassination of John F. Kennedy,
Speaker 2: and I think that family has a very special place
Speaker 2: in American history. It is unfortunate, though, that the return
Speaker 2: to power, and this is why I put it in there.
Speaker 2: As you know, in that top list is somebody who
Speaker 2: is as off the track about so many things as
Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy Junior. Health is and increasingly it's always important,
Speaker 2: but ever since COVID it's been much more understandably on
Speaker 2: people's minds. You know, you reach something every day that's frightening.
Speaker 2: The bird flu seems to be taking week in the South,
Speaker 2: I mean, so, you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 2: very serious life and death health problems. By the way,
Speaker 2: I'll mentioned that this year a lot of people from
Speaker 2: science fiction, George of Browsekeep, Barry Maulsburg, a guy by
Speaker 2: the name of t Tom Jackson. They all Tom Jackson King.
Speaker 2: I left off his last name. So you know, I
Speaker 2: am extremely concerned and actually not at all happy that
Speaker 2: this Kennedy has returned to power. And we're going to
Speaker 2: talk more about this in this hour because this is
Speaker 2: just one of many of frankly insane appointments that Trump
Speaker 2: is making. And you know, I saw a tweet the
Speaker 2: other that really captured it, saying something to the effect of,
Speaker 2: I know this is old hat, but I have to
Speaker 2: tell you Trump is out of his mind. And unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the appointment of Robert F. Kennedy Junior to the most
Speaker 2: powerful position in the cabinet that is responsible for the
Speaker 2: health of Americans appointing someone like Robert F. Kennedy Junior.
Speaker 2: I think it's crazy.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move to number six on the list.
Speaker 1: And I find very interesting the way you worded it. Okay,
Speaker 1: UFOs over New Jersey. Some might choose the word drones
Speaker 1: over New Jersey, but when you think about it, they
Speaker 1: are unidentified flying objects. We don't know for sure that
Speaker 1: they're drones, but anybody who's lived in the Northeast, and
Speaker 1: not only New Jersey. I actually my partner Amanda and
Speaker 1: I went out a couple of times to look over
Speaker 1: the Hudson River and we saw something. And I guess
Speaker 1: that's why it goes under UFOs. But this is potentially
Speaker 1: a big thing because it could be so many things.
Speaker 1: So why is this such a big story in your mind? Book?
Speaker 2: Well, it reminded me of that line in John Lennon's
Speaker 2: song there are UFOs over New York and I too surprise. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I got the melody slightly wrong, But you know, you're right.
Speaker 2: This could be the biggest thing of all. This could
Speaker 2: basically exceed number one if it is really something that
Speaker 2: in some way has anything to do with intelligence that
Speaker 2: originated off this planet. And look it probably isn't. And
Speaker 2: just the fact that it's not identified is a combination
Speaker 2: of maybe there are military secrets involved, maybe some other
Speaker 2: country figured out a way of disguising its identity as
Speaker 2: the country that sent those UFOs, those drones over the
Speaker 2: northeast here. But it is a very exciting thing to
Speaker 2: think about it. And you know, again, as you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a science fiction writer. Well, I'm a sucker for
Speaker 2: these things.
Speaker 1: You can really run with this one, Paul, Someday I
Speaker 1: smell a story coming up here somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know there is you know, the
Speaker 2: Fermi paradox. I'm sure maybe some of your listeners have
Speaker 2: heard of that. This is Enrico Fermi. He tried to
Speaker 2: answer the question of if there are intelligent civilizations off
Speaker 2: this planet and other solar systems and other galaxies, surely
Speaker 2: some of them would be older than the human species,
Speaker 2: that is around, longer than we have been, and therefore
Speaker 2: they should be more advanced than us, and therefore they
Speaker 2: should have interstellar travel, and therefore why they're not here
Speaker 2: And FORMI put out a whole bunch of reasons to
Speaker 2: explain why this is the case, and people have had
Speaker 2: a field day with us. You know, the aliens are
Speaker 2: so smart. They don't want to disturb our civilization. They
Speaker 2: don't want to cause a trauma. But many people know
Speaker 2: I think I'm pretty close to it, are close to
Speaker 2: now thinking that, you know what, we need help from somewhere,
Speaker 2: the way this world is going, and this country in particular.
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm leaving the door open.
Speaker 1: Well, we're lucky if they don't show up and turn
Speaker 1: around and say later. For this place, it's messed up.
Speaker 1: But that's a conversation for another day, Paul. Here's interesting
Speaker 1: and somewhat related also AI artificial intelligence. We've discussed it,
Speaker 1: the good, the bad, and the ugly, and you have
Speaker 1: this as one of the top stories, particularly as many
Speaker 1: people are afraid of A and I. And I know
Speaker 1: you are cautious, but fear is a word that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't use to describe your thoughts towards A and I. Well,
Speaker 1: why is this such a big story in your mind?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I find myself lately not wanting
Speaker 2: to agree with Jeff Bezos in any way because, as
Speaker 2: you and some of our listeners may recall, Bezos presented
Speaker 2: vented the Washington Post from running an op ed, which
Speaker 2: would have endor us Kamala Harris. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if that had any effect, but I think that that
Speaker 2: was really a cowardly thing for a newspaper to do,
Speaker 2: or the owner of a newspaper in this day and age.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, even a broken clock is right twice every day,
Speaker 2: you know, when it's stuck on one time. And I
Speaker 2: read somewhere that Jeff Bezos said something which I think
Speaker 2: is a savvy appraisal of AI. He said, It's going
Speaker 2: to become like electricity. It doesn't matter whether we like
Speaker 2: it or not. It's going to be in everything pretty
Speaker 2: much that we do. And you know, there were people
Speaker 2: back in Edison's day, Thomas Edison's day, you know, in
Speaker 2: the eighteen eighties, eighteen nineties, who concerned about electricity. They
Speaker 2: were afraid people were going to get electrocuted, you know,
Speaker 2: there were concerns about that. In every generation, anytime i'm
Speaker 2: anything new is introduced. So people are using gas lamps,
Speaker 2: electricity is introduced, which is actually far more safer than
Speaker 2: gas lamps because you can easily have a fire with,
Speaker 2: you know, with something that's burning, whether it's on gas
Speaker 2: or anything else. And electricity pretty much got beyond that,
Speaker 2: and I think that that is what AI is, and
Speaker 2: I am not surprised, but I'm not happy to see
Speaker 2: the number of people, especially in our academic world, who
Speaker 2: have piled on over and over again this past year
Speaker 2: and again. As you and I discussed on a previous show,
Speaker 2: you would think they were talking about the terminator. You
Speaker 2: know that this AI is going to come and kill us,
Speaker 2: It is going to take over the world. You know,
Speaker 2: a group of AI scientists, as you know, sign something
Speaker 2: saying they were so concerned about this anyway, So I
Speaker 2: think that we need to wake up. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying we should blindly accept everything that is AI, but
Speaker 2: take it easy. By and large, it saves people's lives
Speaker 2: even now. Yes, it does create problems, you know, if
Speaker 2: you have someone plagarizing somebody else who are creating a
Speaker 2: fake video that looks and sounds like the person. But
Speaker 2: I think that those problems, when you weigh them against
Speaker 2: the benefits of AI, pretty much fall by the wayside.
Speaker 1: Just to develop it for a few more minutes of Paul,
Speaker 1: because I think it's an interesting thing, and I have
Speaker 1: a lot of journalist's friends who still work in newsrooms
Speaker 1: and you could they are free because many newsrooms have
Speaker 1: been turned over to AI. There was something in the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times, I believe you mentioned that, but also
Speaker 1: recently where they're relying more and more on artificial intelligence
Speaker 1: to pick stories, to edit stories, to check for accuracy,
Speaker 1: and there have been mistakes made because it lacks the
Speaker 1: human element that is so important in journalism, which is
Speaker 1: to determine beyond the surface what's right and what's not.
Speaker 1: So you know your feelings on that, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of the downside, And I didn't want to play over
Speaker 1: that too much because specially as you and I media
Speaker 1: people and journalists, there is a concern there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, we have to be more careful in
Speaker 2: that regard. But on the other hand, just giving an
Speaker 2: example that how I've used AI, and it's been very
Speaker 2: helpful to me. As you know and many of your
Speaker 2: listeners know, I review a lot of things or aview
Speaker 2: television shows and so on. So if I've just watched
Speaker 2: an episode of Outlander, and by the way, the second
Speaker 2: half of the seventh seventh season that's now on is excellent.
Speaker 2: It's one of the best Outlander seasons. And I'm writing
Speaker 2: a review and I want to know the name of
Speaker 2: an actress what I used to have. It's not the
Speaker 2: end of the world, but I have to go on
Speaker 2: to IMDb do a search, you know, and sometimes it
Speaker 2: can you know, the actress's name might not be in
Speaker 2: the top names that are there, so that I have
Speaker 2: to go to the full cast page. Again, not the
Speaker 2: end of the world. Now, with AI as a reviewer,
Speaker 2: I just say, who's the name of the actress who
Speaker 2: played such and such a part in Outlander episode seven
Speaker 2: point one two, and boom, it gives me the answer,
Speaker 2: and so far it hasn't been wrong. So look, I'm
Speaker 2: an author. I don't want AI taking away my profession,
Speaker 2: either as a scholarly writer or a science fiction writer.
Speaker 2: So I'm not unsympathetic to those concerns. But I am
Speaker 2: also aware of how valuable my time is, and AI
Speaker 2: has saved me an enormous amount of time already.
Speaker 1: You know, It's interesting because as I was writing my
Speaker 1: intro today and I noticed how AI was taking over
Speaker 1: anticipating what I was writing. And I mentioned it to
Speaker 1: Amanda and I said, you know, in ninety percent of
Speaker 1: the time, it's right, it's where I want to go,
Speaker 1: and it's all spelled out for me. I'm a terrible speller,
Speaker 1: so in that sense it does help. So very interesting.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move down. Well, let's move up to
Speaker 1: the top four, and it will relatively relate it because
Speaker 1: they're political, okay, And when we talk politics, we have
Speaker 1: to talk Biden, we have to talk Trump, obviously, the
Speaker 1: huge contest in twenty twenty four. Okay, so number four
Speaker 1: in terms of your importance here Trump almost assassinated. And
Speaker 1: then you qualify it with the question or was he explained?
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I don't know. And again I hate to,
Speaker 2: you know, even imply any humor here because it is
Speaker 2: a very very serious thing. But I grew up, as
Speaker 2: you did, world in which tragically political leaders were assassinated.
Speaker 2: Not only political leaders, you know, great one of the
Speaker 2: world's most brilliant songwriters in human history is assassinated, you know,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: we've all come to know when these tragedies happen is
Speaker 2: almost immediately there are medical people who are being interviewed
Speaker 2: by the media and they explain, as best as they
Speaker 2: know it what happened. Sometimes they don't do a very
Speaker 2: good job of it. That's why, to this very day
Speaker 2: there are still questions about who killed JFK. But there
Speaker 2: was extensive coverage of the assassination of JFK. And there
Speaker 2: is almost always extensive coverage of attempted assassinations. So the
Speaker 2: attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan got an enormous amount of coverage.
Speaker 2: You see him being willed into the hospital, you know,
Speaker 2: interview with doctors. Well, we can't tell you everything, but
Speaker 2: he's doing okay. It's a little more serious than it seems,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. So i'd be interested. Can anyone
Speaker 2: tell me? Maybe I missed it? Where was that coverage
Speaker 2: in the aftermath of the assassination attempt? And I put
Speaker 2: a question mark after that because of this. Where is
Speaker 2: the media coverage of the aftermath of that? Where are
Speaker 2: the doctors telling us exactly what happened, how serious it was?
Speaker 2: In fact? Where are the FBI people commenting? Anytime FBI
Speaker 2: people were into They don't know anything. They're not working
Speaker 2: on this case. The Secret Service had nothing to say,
Speaker 2: they were working on the case. All we know is
Speaker 2: what was like a week or two later, Trump appears
Speaker 2: at the convention. I don't know even his ear. It
Speaker 2: was like a little bandaged up. It didn't look like
Speaker 2: a bullet had ripped off a part of his ear.
Speaker 2: But what do I know. I'm not a doctor, so
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's what I'm saying. There's something strange there,
Speaker 2: and if I were an investigative reporter, I would investigate that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's also interesting. We know so much about
Speaker 1: other assassins and murderers. We know very little about that
Speaker 1: young man who was eventually killed by the Secret Service.
Speaker 1: There's been very little follow up about his motivation, etc.
Speaker 1: You really don't hear much about that.
Speaker 2: That's interesting too, Yeah, it is, And you know, there
Speaker 2: are all kinds of other little things. Trump didn't make
Speaker 2: any appearances for about two weeks prior to that appearance.
Speaker 2: If you want to be you know, I don't think
Speaker 2: not paranoid. And it's an understandable question. Maybe Trump was
Speaker 2: training for this. Look. It certainly boosted his polls. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that I think that actually happened, but I
Speaker 2: think a mark is a legitimate thing to put after
Speaker 2: that whole event.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to the top three. Okay, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to change your order a little bit for
Speaker 1: between two and three, just for ease of conversation. And
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the Joe Biden Donald
Speaker 1: Trump debate, in which Biden did dismally and that's putting
Speaker 1: it mildly. It really changed the whole face literally and
Speaker 1: that's the next one, literally changed the face of the election.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the debate and how important was
Speaker 1: and how that really changed the conversation within around the
Speaker 1: presidential debate.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I, my wife and I were up on
Speaker 2: Cape cod but we obviously had a television. We saw
Speaker 2: the debate, and you know, our draws dropped and stayed
Speaker 2: dropped for pretty much the whole debate. It was an
Speaker 2: astonishingly atrocious performance, and you know, very very upsetting, because
Speaker 2: the last thing in the world we wanted was for
Speaker 2: Trump to have any advantage over Biden, and we were
Speaker 2: hoping that clearly there was something wrong with Biden that night.
Speaker 2: We were hoping it was a temporary thing, that it
Speaker 2: wasn't an indication of some kind of permanent impairment. Republicans
Speaker 2: had been saying ever since Biden got in office that
Speaker 2: basically he wasn't all there mentally, which I always thought
Speaker 2: was nonsense. But I also began thinking, and I know
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this as well. And
Speaker 2: let me just preface this by saying, as a media theorist,
Speaker 2: as someone who has studied Marshall McLuhan, who has written
Speaker 2: books on McLuhan, who teaches Marshall McLuhan, one of the
Speaker 2: things that really impressed me with Marshall McLuhan was how
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty four and understanding media, he talked about
Speaker 2: that debate between Kennedy and and you know mclwin's parlance,
Speaker 2: Kennedy won because he was much more cool, which was
Speaker 2: a more appropriate approach than Nixon, who was hot. But
Speaker 2: if you don't want that mcluhness distinction, clearly Kennedy was calm, relaxed,
Speaker 2: at ease with himself, that is cool, whereas Nixon was sweaty,
Speaker 2: overbearing a that's right. And so Kennedy just looked a
Speaker 2: lot better. And it was a very close election, and
Speaker 2: Kennedy did as well as he did, no doubt because
Speaker 2: of that debate. And up until the debate with Biden,
Speaker 2: I was also something of a student of debates. You're
Speaker 2: remembering various full pause and debates, remembering various successful thrusts.
Speaker 2: So getting back to Reagan again, when he says to
Speaker 2: Walter mondel, I'm not gonna you know, hold you, you know, responsible,
Speaker 2: or criticize you because you're not fit in age to
Speaker 2: be president because you're so much younger than me, or
Speaker 2: something like that. That's a paraphase, but it was very effective.
Speaker 2: It got a lot of laughs. And Reagan was an
Speaker 2: excellent communicator. So there are many moments in debates. But
Speaker 2: I began thinking, you know what, after all said and done,
Speaker 2: maybe the debate is not so important, because what do
Speaker 2: I want from a president? I want, ultimately, somebody from
Speaker 2: a who is president who gets a call in the
Speaker 2: middle of the night and Russia has not only invaded
Speaker 2: Ukraine but now gone into Poland a NATO ally, what
Speaker 2: are we going to do about this? I mean, this
Speaker 2: is what the president's job is. This is the president's role.
Speaker 2: This is where the president's performance matters. It's a life
Speaker 2: and death decision. You know, think about John F. Kennedy
Speaker 2: in retrospect, who cares how he did in the debate.
Speaker 2: What saved our lives back then was how Kennedy responded
Speaker 2: in a savvy way to the Cuban missile crisis and
Speaker 2: where he and Bobby Kennedy is usually given the credit
Speaker 2: for coming up with the idea. John F. Kennedy presents
Speaker 2: to Christ Jeff, how about we make this deal rather
Speaker 2: than going further and further into blowing ourselves to death,
Speaker 2: And that saved our lives. I mean New York City
Speaker 2: would have been radioactive ashes if that had gone much worse.
Speaker 2: And so that has nothing to do with the debate.
Speaker 2: And so I was thinking that everyone, you know, George Clooney,
Speaker 2: you know, take it easy. You know, I know you're
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with how he did in the debate. I also
Speaker 2: believe you know, he was at some kind of event,
Speaker 2: George Clooney, he was not that comfortable with the way
Speaker 2: Biden was. Then you know what, that doesn't matter either.
Speaker 2: All that matters is how he performed office. And I
Speaker 2: think Biden has done an excellent job as president.
Speaker 1: But Paul where media guys, and from a media standpoint,
Speaker 1: it was a disaster. You know, And often people disparage
Speaker 1: American culture as of style over substance, if you will,
Speaker 1: And this might be a classic example from from a
Speaker 1: media point of view, it was an absolute disaster. He
Speaker 1: looked weak and feeble, all the things that you mentioned
Speaker 1: that you want in a leader, he lacked on that
Speaker 1: particular night. So from from a media strictly media point
Speaker 1: of view, I don't think it can be over emphasized
Speaker 1: how poorly he did, and I in my opinion, how
Speaker 1: it started to swing the momentum in the election more
Speaker 1: and more towards Trump.
Speaker 2: It did. But I guess what I'm saying, I don't guess.
Speaker 2: I know what I'm saying is the media performance ultimately
Speaker 2: is not a measure of the president's performance in real situations.
Speaker 2: You know what are the media? They're just reflections of
Speaker 2: what a candidate says, how a candidate moves at a
Speaker 2: particular given time, And in that sense, it's not real life.
Speaker 2: It's a performance. And yet so.
Speaker 1: You believe that, and I believe that what I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: because again, we're media and we know how we can
Speaker 1: shape and shape a message. But obviously that message did
Speaker 1: not resonate with the best of America. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: he lost. It leads us to our next The party lost,
Speaker 1: and partially because of it, they didn't read what message
Speaker 1: was sent properly. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yes? I do. But that's why I'm saying, I'd like
Speaker 2: to see our culture get less addicted to pinning everything
Speaker 2: on debates because I don't think they're that important. And
Speaker 2: you know, as far as media coverage, Franklin doll In,
Speaker 2: Roosevelt's an interesting character. He was pretty much paralyzed from
Speaker 2: the waist down. Fortunately for him, there was no television
Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties, and also fortunately for him, he
Speaker 2: had a great speaking voice, so you know, when his
Speaker 2: voice came over radio, the cutting edge medium of the time,
Speaker 2: Americans really identified with him. But if there had been
Speaker 2: television in those days, I mean, look people in wheelchairs.
Speaker 2: The governor of Texas seems to have no problem getting
Speaker 2: re elected and he's in a wheelchair. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think in that sense, Americans have grown up in effect.
Speaker 2: But I do think, and to some extent, the media
Speaker 2: is at fault for this because the can't bring themselves
Speaker 2: to say this event that we cover and we talk
Speaker 2: about all the time. You know what, maybe it's not
Speaker 2: that important. I would have liked to have seen Rachel
Speaker 2: Maddow say that, and she didn't. To his credit. Lawrence
Speaker 2: O'Donnell pretty much said that, and in my opinion, that
Speaker 2: is the correct way of understanding this.
Speaker 1: Well, the fallout from that debate and the dismal performance
Speaker 1: leads us to our next big story as we lead to.
Speaker 1: Number one is that Biden withdrew and Vice President Harris
Speaker 1: was then nominated as a Democratic presidential candidate. A huge
Speaker 1: story was that the right move should have and I
Speaker 1: guess this takes us away from the media part of
Speaker 1: the story and into the political part. Did Biden make
Speaker 1: a mistake by changing at that point? Should it have
Speaker 1: been done much earlier? I mean, we could make a
Speaker 1: whole show out of just this decision. But quickly, why
Speaker 1: is this so important?
Speaker 2: Well, everyone and their grandmother and grandfather were pressuring Biden
Speaker 2: day and night to pull out. He didn't want to.
Speaker 2: He wanted to stay in. And since you're asking me
Speaker 2: the question, I think, and this gets to the number
Speaker 2: one thing that happened, the fact that Trump won. I
Speaker 2: think Biden made a mistake by withdrawing. I think that Biden,
Speaker 2: even with that atrocious debate performance, would have done better
Speaker 2: than Kamala Harris. And I can just hear the hells
Speaker 2: of outrage coming from progressive people who are listening to this,
Speaker 2: but they should just consider this fact. Donald Trump, the
Speaker 2: same lunatic, the same person who, as you and I
Speaker 2: have discussed, is on the road to fascism, not as
Speaker 2: close as Putin is, and certainly not up where Hitler was,
Speaker 2: but nonetheless on that road. The person who is now saying,
Speaker 2: and has been saying crazy things like this, that he
Speaker 2: wants to buy Greenland, even though Denmark has told him
Speaker 2: a dozen times no. He wants to take over the
Speaker 2: Panama Canal. And I think he wants not maybe a
Speaker 2: next Canada, but somehow Canada is going to become another state.
Speaker 2: And I know some Canadians they would sooner cut off
Speaker 2: their right arm do anything like that. So this gentleman
Speaker 2: ran for president three times, He won twice, he lost once.
Speaker 2: Who was the candidate that beat Trump? It was a
Speaker 2: candidate Joe Biden, who in many ways was not as
Speaker 2: well known and powerful, even though he been vice president
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, a very famous first Lady Hillary Clinton, a
Speaker 2: Secretary of State, and arguably he was in a better
Speaker 2: position in many ways than Kamala Harris because he was
Speaker 2: currently president and could claim credit for doing all the
Speaker 2: things that he had done, rather than you have to
Speaker 2: ask comments, well, did you agree with what Biden did?
Speaker 2: I mean, what is she going to say that question,
Speaker 2: except that Joe Biden should answer. So I think we'll
Speaker 2: never know. As you know, I love writing and reading
Speaker 2: and talking about alternate history. So this goes into alternate history.
Speaker 2: But I think that if Joe Biden hadn't withdrawn, the
Speaker 2: results of the election might have been different.
Speaker 1: Well, comment, so you mentioned that, you know, out of
Speaker 1: the three races that he ran, Donald Trump lost, lost,
Speaker 1: lost one in one two and the fact that the
Speaker 1: two people that he beat happened to be women. Is
Speaker 1: there something to be read within that, Paul, or is
Speaker 1: that just, you know, an anomaly. I got to think
Speaker 1: it's more than that.
Speaker 2: I agree with you. And this gets to the first question,
Speaker 2: the fact that Trump won the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 2: I think it's obvious. I don't see how it can
Speaker 2: be ignored that too many Americans do not want to
Speaker 2: see a woman in the White House. They're sexist. I
Speaker 2: don't know what their problem is. I have said more
Speaker 2: than once I honestly think that in many ways women
Speaker 2: are actually more evolved than men. It's true that, you know,
Speaker 2: you have Gold in my ear, who was like a
Speaker 2: wartime president. But by and large, you know, it's always,
Speaker 2: you know, the men who are making wars, and you
Speaker 2: know women are left to you know, absorb the consequences
Speaker 2: of those wars. But here in the United States, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, to some extent, we here on the East
Speaker 2: Coast tend to think understandably like that everyone is sort
Speaker 2: of like us. But in most of America that's not
Speaker 2: the case. And I think there is a lot of
Speaker 2: sentiment that in the United States, and I hate to
Speaker 2: put it this way, but they would sooner vote for
Speaker 2: a lunatic than vote for a woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And well, of course they did ultimately, as Donald
Speaker 1: Trump won both the popular vote, not quite as much
Speaker 1: as he claims to have, but he did. He did
Speaker 1: handily win the electoral College. So he is the president
Speaker 1: of the United States in your mind. And again I said,
Speaker 1: you know, it's so clear. I understand that you understand.
Speaker 1: And I wrote something about the East Coast, West Coast
Speaker 1: elites and et cetera. How did let's cut to the chase,
Speaker 1: How did it happen where it seems so obvious to
Speaker 1: so many of us yet we were wrong. And why how.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of Americans who have grievances, you
Speaker 2: know they I was just looking at the January calendar.
Speaker 2: Martin Luther King's birthday is a holiday in January. I
Speaker 2: remember this happened. Reagan is the one who signed it
Speaker 2: into law. There was a lot of opposition to that
Speaker 2: back then, and Reagan, in his way said, you know,
Speaker 2: this is the first time we've done this for someone
Speaker 2: who hasn't been you know, a president, to make a
Speaker 2: holiday in a person's name. But okay, I'm going to
Speaker 2: do this. So credit to Reagan for overcoming the hostility.
Speaker 2: But that hostility never went away. And there are many
Speaker 2: people in America, and I'm not saying, you know that
Speaker 2: they're ipso facto racist. You know, Obama, who obviously is
Speaker 2: at least partially African American in heritage, he won twice,
Speaker 2: and you know, so some of the people maybe who
Speaker 2: voted against Hillary and who voted against Kamala stayed home
Speaker 2: and that's why Obama, you know, did so well. And
Speaker 2: they weren't that thrilled with either McCain or Mitt Romney,
Speaker 2: who were Obama's two candidates. But I think that there
Speaker 2: is a lot of deep resentment here in the United
Speaker 2: States to what unfortuantly many people wrongly think is what
Speaker 2: they are entitled to. And they're walking around with a
Speaker 2: bushel full of grievance, says on all kinds of things,
Speaker 2: and that's where Trump finds his deepest support.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Paul, I'd like to add three of my own
Speaker 1: to the list. I don't know if there were any
Speaker 1: necessary order, but let's go for them. One of the
Speaker 1: things that I have is a big story in twenty
Speaker 1: four and it seems to be every year and never
Speaker 1: seems to be dealt with, is climate change, and particularly
Speaker 1: the October Hurricane Heleen, which almost wiped out western North Carolina. Extraordinary. Again,
Speaker 1: a huge story. But why is you know, climate change
Speaker 1: and environmental issues again always seem to be so hard
Speaker 1: to well, they seem to be so much further down
Speaker 1: the list until they happen in your community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking of putting it on my own list.
Speaker 2: It is a serious problem. And I'll say this about
Speaker 2: climate change, which again is a somewhat controversial thing. I
Speaker 2: am no supporter of Elon Musk. I don't like what
Speaker 2: he's done with Twitter since he purchased it. I don't
Speaker 2: like the support that he's given to Donald Trump. I
Speaker 2: don't know how much money exactly, but certainly plenty of money.
Speaker 1: It's I think, okay, right, holte me on that, but
Speaker 1: I believe that was the.
Speaker 2: Amount, all right, et cetera, et cetera. Well, I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: when we talk about Elon Musk, we have to talk
Speaker 2: about Tesla, and I know that, you know, totally electric
Speaker 2: automobiles have their own climate problems because there's like a
Speaker 2: certain mineral it's used in making you know, the engine
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. But you know what, yeah, batteries, right,
Speaker 2: that's small potatoes compared to the damage that climate change
Speaker 2: is doing. So I think that, to some extent one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why not as much has been done
Speaker 2: about climate change as should be done. If I were president,
Speaker 2: which i'll never be, I would embrace Elon Musk and
Speaker 2: bring him, maybe offer him to become Secretary of the
Speaker 2: Interior or something where what he's done with Tesla, and
Speaker 2: for that matter, even SpaceX, you know, his space program
Speaker 2: could be very very helpful in terms of tamping down
Speaker 2: further the use of fossil fuel, which unfortunately is still
Speaker 2: you know, happening. Cars are still pumping out, you know,
Speaker 2: carbon monoxide, et cetera, et cetera. And so my recommendation,
Speaker 2: my advice would be to progress is try to find
Speaker 2: sources other than those you've already accepted, who could be
Speaker 2: allies in this desperate need. We have to get on
Speaker 2: top of the climate change problem. And Elon Musk would
Speaker 2: be a classic example.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because many people are anti Elon these days
Speaker 1: and for many reasons, but the idea of conservation, it
Speaker 1: has to be faced.
Speaker 3: They saw something on PBS, as a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: I think been the Oven Poor Hour anyway, about the rainforest,
Speaker 3: and some scientists said that they reached the twenty tipping
Speaker 3: point by twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1: That's ten years a tipping point. If the rainforest goes
Speaker 1: in the Amazon, we go. And so I don't understand
Speaker 1: why that's not in the forefront of everyone's But let's
Speaker 1: move on. Another thing that should be in the forefront
Speaker 1: of everybody's thinking, and then nothing seems to be done
Speaker 1: about it is the continuing gun violence. Although there was one,
Speaker 1: there was some movement, and I want to get your feeling.
Speaker 1: The conviction of the Michigan Killers' parents. If you remember,
Speaker 1: Jennifer and James Crumley, whose son committed a mass shooting
Speaker 1: at a school in Michigan, were convicted. So that was
Speaker 1: one step. But yet just recently there was another school shooting,
Speaker 1: and again every year we seem to set a record.
Speaker 1: Why aren't things being done about that? Why isn't that
Speaker 1: the number one story in this country?
Speaker 2: I don't know. And the only reason why I didn't
Speaker 2: include it is, as you've just said, this is not
Speaker 2: something that's unique at all to twenty twenty four. We
Speaker 2: have a long history of the incredible and again this
Speaker 2: goes in the insane category damage that that people with
Speaker 2: guns are doing to our children, to everyone, really, and
Speaker 2: it's defies explanation. I don't understand it. I don't understand
Speaker 2: how any parent. I don't understand how any aunt or uncle.
Speaker 2: I don't understand how any grandparent, how any brother or sister,
Speaker 2: which so I basically covered everyone, right, you know, how
Speaker 2: any mother and father could continue to tolerate this insane
Speaker 2: situation where you know, yeah, there are some minor controls
Speaker 2: you know, on you know, the possession of guns. But
Speaker 2: and I think actually Biden is responsible for one last
Speaker 2: summer or maybe two summers ago, they finally the Congress
Speaker 2: finally did pass some kind of like, you know, the
Speaker 2: red Flag law, that you could deny someone the right
Speaker 2: to purchase a gun if there was a red flag
Speaker 2: on that person's name because they had done something which
Speaker 2: might lead you to believe they could use the gun
Speaker 2: for violence. And it's one of the great great tragedies
Speaker 2: of the United States. And you know, I have friends
Speaker 2: who live overseas. If there's any one thing that they
Speaker 2: used to think that they wouldn't want to live in
Speaker 2: the United States of America and that we here are
Speaker 2: all out of our minds. It's the prevalence of guns
Speaker 2: in this country.
Speaker 1: And violence which leads me to my next The assassination
Speaker 1: of the United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson by Luigi Mangione.
Speaker 1: Just shocking video and such a huge story, not only
Speaker 1: because of the event itself, but the aftermath of the event,
Speaker 1: people praising MANGIONI for committing this brutal, wanton assassination, something
Speaker 1: I don't understand. But that's a big story on many levels. Again,
Speaker 1: the violence aspect, and then also kind of the approval
Speaker 1: of the violence because the healthcare industry has its own issues. Again,
Speaker 1: probably a conversation we could do a full show around,
Speaker 1: but in the limited time we have your comments on
Speaker 1: that as a big story and all the facets it has.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the single biggest news facet, and you
Speaker 2: just said it, is people who think that murderer man
Speaker 2: you own, is a hero. That's like a new twist,
Speaker 2: you know, on these things. I don't know who thought
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald was a hero or assuming that he
Speaker 2: indeed is the one who actually pulled the trigger. Uh.
Speaker 2: And and the other monstrosities and miscreants who have shot
Speaker 2: down public people. You know, I will say that although
Speaker 2: shooting somebody is certainly not the answer. Uh. That insurance
Speaker 2: in general has for a very long time been taking advantage,
Speaker 2: you know, of the American people in all kinds of ways.
Speaker 2: They're they're great at doing two things. They're great at
Speaker 2: taking in premiums, that is, payments for the insurance. And
Speaker 2: they're great at spending millions and millions of dollars on
Speaker 2: stupid moronic commercials like that jerk and what is it
Speaker 2: the AIMU or something progress? Who they are?
Speaker 4: I refuse to allow them, partners of Frank, give me
Speaker 4: the remote if they're just so, it's just a man true, But.
Speaker 2: When it comes to collecting, it doesn't matter. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure I told you the story. The first time I
Speaker 2: got a sort of an idea of how these insurance
Speaker 2: companies work. This was like an auto insurance company. I
Speaker 2: used to teach what the first job I had teaching,
Speaker 2: first full time job was at Fairley Dickens Dickinson University
Speaker 2: in Teaneck, New Jersey. I buy a new car. This
Speaker 2: is nineteen eighty two. It's a Forenza, a Lil Olds
Speaker 2: and Bille. I love the car. I'm using it for
Speaker 2: maybe the second or third time. I'm driving out on
Speaker 2: Root for New Jersey, and the car dives, so, you know,
Speaker 2: I get towed away. You know, I take a cab.
Speaker 2: I teach my classes. I get back, and the first
Speaker 2: thing I do when I get home is I call
Speaker 2: up the insurance company. And I'm speaking to some guy
Speaker 2: who has the nerve to say, all right, so tell me,
Speaker 2: miss Levinson, you're the kind of guy who likes to
Speaker 2: have a couple of drinks at lunch. I said, First
Speaker 2: of all, it's not going to be a goddamn business.
Speaker 2: Second of all, it's not miss the elevenson you know
Speaker 2: you can see. And third, well, what the hell does
Speaker 2: that have to do? The car you know died because
Speaker 2: you sold me a piece of garbage car. So I
Speaker 2: tell you what I'm gonna give you, like a minute
Speaker 2: or two to get your superior online and then I'll
Speaker 2: see you in court. You know, my father was a lawyer,
Speaker 2: so I sort of learned to do that when I
Speaker 2: when I when people and don't be upset. I'll get
Speaker 2: my superior online and the guy comes out and apologizes
Speaker 2: for the guy. But that is an indication of what
Speaker 2: insurance companies do all the time, that they're trained to
Speaker 2: say no to things and hope that people will go
Speaker 2: away so they can save money.
Speaker 1: Paul, we got to take a quick break. We covered
Speaker 1: our top stories and we invite our listeners if you
Speaker 1: want to send us uh uh your comments and your
Speaker 1: top stories. Remember you can. We have a Facebook page.
Speaker 1: We also have a website Hudson River Radio dot com,
Speaker 1: and you can also go to Being Frank's Facebook page
Speaker 1: and leave us a comment. We're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 1: My guest is doctor Paul Levinson, the professor of Media
Speaker 1: Studies at Ford University, We've talked about the top stories
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. Doctor Levinson had a big year himself,
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about his biggest stories for
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four when we come back from these brief
Speaker 1: commercial messages. This is Being Frank. We're the only way
Speaker 1: to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebaro. Will
Speaker 1: be right back with more right after these brief commercial messages.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere yet.
Speaker 5: This is Hudson River Radio dot.
Speaker 6: Com, Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson River
Speaker 6: Radio dot com.
Speaker 1: Hudson Riverradio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank, the
Speaker 1: Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks for sticking with us. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: frankle Bono, our engineer is Neil Richter, and my very
Speaker 1: special guest is doctor Paul Levinson. You know, we bring
Speaker 1: our audience a fresh topic every week or virtually every week,
Speaker 1: and we stream from Hudson River Radio located in beautiful
Speaker 1: and historic Stony Point, New York. But you can catch
Speaker 1: Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts, and since
Speaker 1: it's archives, you can listen to any program anytime you like.
Speaker 1: You can find the link to Being Frank on the
Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio Facebook page or at our website Hudsonriverradio
Speaker 1: dot com. Just click and you're there. Of course, you
Speaker 1: can always leave us at comment. Our conversation today has
Speaker 1: been the stop Stories of twenty twenty four with Professor
Speaker 1: Paul Levinson, my colleague at Fordham University. Paul, you also
Speaker 1: had a big year in twenty twenty four. Tell us
Speaker 1: a little about the doctor Paul Levinson highlights for the
Speaker 1: soon to be past year.
Speaker 2: By the way, you can call me Paul that the
Speaker 2: doctor thing is only for some jackass.
Speaker 1: Well, you scared me when you say I'm doctor. I
Speaker 1: am Doctor Levinson.
Speaker 2: Fine, I just wanted to teach that a lesson anyway. Well, actually,
Speaker 2: and this episode is going to be up today Fridaymber
Speaker 2: twenty seven.
Speaker 1: Mailman will deliver.
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, excellent, the Mailman of the bus driver. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it just so happens that it's a great way
Speaker 2: for me to cap off this year. At eleven fifteen
Speaker 2: tonight eleven fifteen pm.
Speaker 1: You're listening to twenty seventh, so we give the date
Speaker 1: to twenty.
Speaker 2: On Friday December twenty seventh, I am going to be
Speaker 2: on a show called Destinies the Voice of Science Fiction,
Speaker 2: and that is a show that's on every week on
Speaker 2: w USB FM radio that's Stony Brooks radio station, and
Speaker 2: you can also stream it. Just search on WUSB radio
Speaker 2: and you'll get to a page where you can hear
Speaker 2: it live. So what I'm going to be doing on
Speaker 2: that show is talking about the book that I've been
Speaker 2: promoting all year long. It's real life and alternate history
Speaker 2: of the Beatles, talking about how I wrote it, why
Speaker 2: I wrote it, etc. Etc. But what really makes this
Speaker 2: show unique is for the first time, I and Howard Margolan,
Speaker 2: who is the DJ on the show, are going to
Speaker 2: read a scene from the second chapter of that novel. Now,
Speaker 2: as of now, we're doing this this afternoon, the only
Speaker 2: parts of the novel that have been publicly broadcast and
Speaker 2: have been publicly read or there was a radio play
Speaker 2: made of the first chapter. And by the way, you
Speaker 2: can hear that radio show on a place called Killer
Speaker 2: Watt Radio not spelled with an old killer k I
Speaker 2: L L E R Watt dot com radio. So there
Speaker 2: is actually a radio play of the first chapter. And
Speaker 2: I've also read the first chapter at the launch party
Speaker 2: in the Players Club in Manhattan, but nobody other than
Speaker 2: my poor wife has heard me say anything publicly talk
Speaker 2: about the second chapter, and it is a great chapter,
Speaker 2: and Howard and I are going to read a scene
Speaker 2: from that tonight. So I'm really excited about that, and
Speaker 2: it's for me. It's a great way to cap off
Speaker 2: the year, because, as I was saying, I've done a
Speaker 2: lot of things this year. The one of the highlights
Speaker 2: was what I just mentioned at the Players Club, which
Speaker 2: is a really wild thing. The actual name of the
Speaker 2: place is the Players. People call it the Players Club,
Speaker 2: but I mean I was accompanied by a death mask
Speaker 2: of John Keats, who was right there hanging outside the room.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if that was some kind of
Speaker 2: threat or whatever. It was all those ill wided up
Speaker 2: like John Keats. So so I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 2: And as far as what I've been doing, you know,
Speaker 2: a year, other than trying to offer my two cents
Speaker 2: on all the political things that we just talked about
Speaker 2: in the earlier part of this episode, just about everything
Speaker 2: I've been doing has been working on its real life
Speaker 2: and alternate history of the Beatles, not writing it, but
Speaker 2: getting it out there to the public. There are some
Speaker 2: exciting things now in motion for twenty twenty five, but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say to them until they definitely happen.
Speaker 2: But I expect twenty twenty five to be even more
Speaker 2: of a year where this novel that I wrote gets
Speaker 2: out to the world.
Speaker 1: Well, don't Gorny wear you at first. We want to
Speaker 1: thank you again as always for your intelligent conversation, for
Speaker 1: being frank with us as you always are. We wish
Speaker 1: you the best going forward for twenty twenty five. And
Speaker 1: you have a song. That's why I always love you
Speaker 1: have it because I don't have to search for an excess.
Speaker 1: So I call you the renaissance man. Maybe you're a professor,
Speaker 1: a writer, a musician, and you're going to introduce a
Speaker 1: song in just a minute, but I just want to
Speaker 1: address our audience a little bit before that. It is
Speaker 1: song Summer Highland Falls Billy Joel sings and they say
Speaker 1: that these are not the best of times, but they're
Speaker 1: the only times I've ever known. Well, folks, that rings
Speaker 1: true for all of us. So make twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: the best time you'll ever know until the next year
Speaker 1: comes around again. I want to thank Brian Horowitz, the
Speaker 1: owner of Hudson River Radio, and of course Neil Richter
Speaker 1: for putting up with me for the year, and of
Speaker 1: course to all of our loyal listeners who take the
Speaker 1: time to support us. If you keep listening, I can
Speaker 1: promise you more intelligent conversation in the future. And I
Speaker 1: wish all of you peace, light and love. Okay, Paul,
Speaker 1: take us out. What are we going to hear?
Speaker 2: You're going to hear looking for sunsets in the early morning.
Speaker 2: And as a song that I you know, soone's written
Speaker 2: in different ways. In this case, I wrote the lyrics
Speaker 2: pretty much complete and I gave them to Ed Fox,
Speaker 2: who back in the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies,
Speaker 2: he was the music to lyrics that I gave him.
Speaker 2: And of all the co written songs that I've written,
Speaker 2: this is one that I'm most proud of. I think
Speaker 2: Ed did a perfect job on the music, and I'm
Speaker 2: very happy with the way the lyrics worked out as well.
Speaker 1: Right for Paul Levinson and Neil Richter, I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Frank Lebono. This has been being Frank, and we wish
Speaker 1: you a merry Christmas, a happy Hanukkah, and a happy
Speaker 1: con It'd be safe and healthy and happy. Everybody. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time.
Speaker 5: We want you.
Speaker 7: Next it turn it to work. It's you know. That's
Speaker 7: the shut and.
Speaker 5: Call me next time. Shoot. Get my sensets and I
Speaker 5: always loud, so more.
Speaker 2: Shot.
Speaker 8: Get my sunsets in the world's gone.
Speaker 2: I know is pad?
Speaker 5: And whos that s holding that costo?
Speaker 1: Shut up?
Speaker 7: We see to the son stuff loved.
Speaker 5: He cast the shook, get the sadset.
Speaker 8: To the ear mon all not more than minutes shook,
Speaker 8: gave us sunsets on the world is b and love.
Speaker 8: Tap u sidset HOSN sences s
Speaker 2: Hudson River Radio dot com