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Speaker 1: I walk straight line.

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Speaker 2: Shackle change. Oh weesome, Girdie, it's calling my name. There

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is no mercy and it's been a tentery juice as

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the huge stream game Rango three.

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Speaker 3: Come here by me to die.

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Speaker 2: Inside these walls, inside the wild.

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Speaker 1: And went no girl as I.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, and welcome back to Bloody Andngola, a podcast

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one hundred and forty two years in the making, the

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complete story of America's bloodiest present. I'm your host, Jim Chapman.

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I'm dropping this episode on Thanksgiving Eve, and hopefully you're

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out there with family and friends you're cooking it up

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and maybe even listening to Bloody Andngla. I'm absolutely thankful

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for every single one of you who, like me, share

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a unique interest in history, prisons, the criminal mind, and

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all that encompasses that. So from me to all of you,

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thank you so much for hanging in there and staying

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with me.

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Speaker 1: Now today I'm continuing.

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Speaker 3: With the story of Felix Veil. In the last time

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that I left you, Felix Veil had finally been arrested

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for the murder of his wife Mary, which occurred some

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fifty years prior to his arrest. On May eighteenth, of

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twenty thirteen, and Felix was seventy three y'all at the

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time of his arrest. Now, Veil was arrested in Kenyon Lake, Texas.

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Undercover cops actually waited for him outside of his home.

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They were doing kind of a stakeout, but when he

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didn't arrive there, they put out an APB and he

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was actually arrested at a local post office. And his

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statement upon his arrest was, I don't know why this

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is happening, that's all he said. He actually waived extradition

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to Calcashu Parish, Louisiana, and they drove him straight there

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from his arrest. And that arrest was significant. This was

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to be the oldest prosecution of a serial killer in

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a cold case in the entire history of the United States. Now,

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what prompted his arrest is an interesting story in and

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of itself. An investigative reporter for a Jackson, Mississippi newspaper

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called The Clarion Ledger. His name was Jerry Mitchell, and

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he started investigating this case again kind of on his

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own in twenty twelve. That investigation led him to publish

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a special report titled Gone in that local paper, and

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that in turn prompted authorities to open a case up

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of their own. So I cannot overemphasize how big of

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a role that Jerry Mitchell played in this case. As

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a matter of fact, were it not for Jerry Mitchell

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and that report, Felix Veil would have never been arrested

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or convicted in his wife Mary's death. And another large

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bit of credit goes to a nets mother, Rose, who

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never gave up on her own pursuit of justice after

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her teenage daughter had went missing while being married to Veil.

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So what was Veil up to between the years of

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nineteen eighty five where I last left you in episode

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one and twenty thirteen when he was finally arrested. Well,

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I'm going to give you the rest of the story

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through the eyes of the guy who really deserves all

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of the credit, and that is Jerry Mitchell in his

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account of the details. And I'm going to pick up

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in nineteen eighty seven in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Now, Rose at

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this point is fed up with the lack of of

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progress in her daughter's death. She had spent thousands of

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dollars by this time on private investigators, and she was

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trying to start a new life. She had just started

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a new job at a bakery. She fired all these

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private investigators that seemed to lead nowhere, and she decided

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to look for Veil herself. So she put some information

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out there, she's looking for this guy, and she actually

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got tipped off. Someone told her he was staying at

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a house, and she got her friend and they go

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to that house and they actually see him sitting outside.

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Imagine that, after all these years of looking for this guy,

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there he is sitting outside on the front porch of

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a house. So she walks up to him and she says,

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where did that go? And he said Mexico? And she

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said where in Mexico? And Seveil told her that he

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and a Nette had made a pact that they would

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contact each other after five years. He never looked up

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at her, he never stood up, He never looked her

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mother in the eye, and shocks. She just walked away,

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shaking her head in disbelief. She didn't believe a word

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of what he had said. Now they'll became fast friends

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with a native of Tulsa, Oklahoma, by the name of

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Scott Porter, and he was an expert in martial arts.

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Had like a ton of black belts, and they'll believed

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he was a martial arts expert too. After practicing flying

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kicks into a mattress. Each morning, he and Porter they

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would work out. They would left weights together before hitting

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a Chinese buffet over lunch. VLL had shared with this

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guy that he had never felt he was bound by

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society rules. As a matter of fact, Porter recalled, he

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dropped his silverware and began eating with his hands like

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a caveman. And at nights the pair would play pool,

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they would drink beer, and they would sometimes visit strip

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clubs in Tulsa. Porter was quoted as saying, Tulsa has

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more churches than gas stations, but also more strip clubs

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than anywhere else I've lived. The two men reminisced about

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the women missing from their lives. Veil at forty five,

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had been married to a Net just eighteen, if you'll remember,

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and Porter, at twenty eight, had dated.

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Speaker 1: Rose, who was thirty six.

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Speaker 3: That's right, they dated mom and daughter at one point

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in their lives. Porter had driven Rose to California before

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returning home alone, and he said, my heart was absolutely broken.

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She needed to move on, and I didn't now. Not

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long after, a Net had vanished. Rose telephoned Porter and

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shared some of her suspicions that Veil had something to

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do with their daughter's disappearance. Porter began examining each word

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his friend spoke while he discovers his hopes of reuniting

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with Rose. He noticed Veil never mentioned the possibility of

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reuniting with a net One night, Val seemed more open.

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He was crying like a baby, Porter recalled, angry it

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didn't work out differently, They'll explained that Annette wanted to

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recreate herself and that she didn't want any contact with

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any portion of her past life. She wanted to totally

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break with herself now. While Veill talked of breaking with

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the past, Porter he was busy searching for his He

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had been adopted and decided to move to Minnesota to

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reconnect with his birth parents, and while there he met

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his future wife, Jenny. Returning to Oklahoma with a small

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son and another on the way, he renewed his friendship

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with Veil, who was so kind. He later watched the

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boys while the couple went out on dates. Once, during

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a discussion of fidelity, Porter said, Veil shared that he

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felt nobody could ever be fake to one person. Months later,

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Val started hitting on my wife, Porter said. Upset about this,

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he took Veil on a walk and confronted him, and

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of course Val denied it all. Porter recalled, He said, no, no,

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she was hitting on me. As they crossed the Arkansas

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River bridge, of fleeting thought ran through his head. I

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wanted to throw Felix off that bridge and was wondering

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if I'd get away with it now. After these incidents,

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Val began dating someone by the name of Beth Field.

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She was attracted to its intelligence, and the pair grew close.

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Then during a December nineteen eighty seven argument, he became

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so violent he ruptured her ear drum. She told Val

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there was no justification for physical violence, and she said

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He replied, if you quit behaving like a whore, I'll

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quit hitting you. She recalled. Discussing this with a therapist,

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I finally told this woman, it's all very nice, but

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one of us is going to be dead before this works.

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Field eventually took the advice of a close friend and

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attended an intensive ten day mediation course in August of

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nineteen eighty eight on Colorado's Western Slope. To her surprise,

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Veil came to after the course, she received a telephone

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call from Rose sharing details about the disappearance of her

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daughter Annette. From that point forward, Field said she began

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to examine Vale's words more closely, realizing the probability that

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he had taken Annette's life.

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Speaker 1: He told Field he.

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Speaker 3: And a Nette had gone camping and that she wanted

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to get away from her mother, and that he had

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helped her set up an opportunity for her to change her.

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Speaker 1: Name and move on.

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Speaker 3: Veil denied to her any involvement in Annette's disappearance. Then

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one time she recalled, he said, what if I said yes.

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Four months after the mediation course, he entered her home unannounced,

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Already drunk, he accused her of imagined promiscuity. According to

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the court order, he slapped her, he struck her, and

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he threw across the bedroom. She asked if he was

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going to kill her, and he said, it depends on

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what you tell me. So the judge here in all

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this information. He gave her a protective order and he

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required Veil to keep his distance. Two weeks later, the

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sheriff reported that Veil was nowhere to be found. Field

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said she was caught in a sick, addictive relationship, and

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it took quite some time to fully unrival. Over time

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her attachment to him it began to fade, and while

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Field was visiting a mediation center again in Texas, this

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was in nineteen ninety, Vail arrived and chastised her. She

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felt the same anger and defensiveness rising up as before,

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she said. She walked away to compose herself, and when

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she returned, she sat down next to him. I told

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him there is a part of you that goes off,

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and it's sick and it's dangerous, she said. He looked

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at her and said, really, yes, Really, this time the

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message seemed to sink in. Vail left the next day,

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and with a single exception of about five years later,

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she never saw him again. Now Mary Rose, she moved

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to Ashland, Oregon. This was in nineteen eighty nine, and

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she was working as an administrator for a private school.

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She was hoping for a quieter life, obviously than the

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one she had in California. More than a year later,

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she goes and she visits a psychic and she asked

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if she could talk to her daughter a net. The

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psychic put her hands over her forehead and spoke, oh

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my gosh, this is not something I usually talk about

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when I see images like this. She never shared what

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she saw, but Rose knew her daughter was dead and

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that she needs to get to the bottom of it.

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So in the summer of nineteen ninety one, she removed

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the back seats from her Toyetta vann and put in

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a makeshift bed for sleeping. She actually made curtains to

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hang over the windows. She had previously taught by phone

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with Felix Veil's sister, Sue Jordan, who now lived in

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Canyon Lake, Texas, so Rose decided to drive more than

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two thousand miles there, hoping she might find out more

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in person. So Jordan answered the door, She invited her in,

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and the two women they sit in the living room

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and Jordan recalled the last time she saw a Net.

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That was in October of nineteen eighty four, when the

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family attended a fair in Sulfur, Louisiana. She said Veil

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was there and a nut, and she told Annette's mom

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that Felix was giving a Net a hard time. He

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criticized the way she was dressed. He was just very

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rude to her. Days after the fair, the couple left

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again in a few days after that, Vale returned alone.

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He looked extremely distressed and he was drinking a lot.

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Jordan also said that Val told her and Nette had

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wanted to leave, and that he took her to a

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bus station and that she left with some Mexican men

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heading to Mexico. Jordan also mentioned that VAL's first wife

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had drowned, which Rose by this point did not know,

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and before she left, Jordan said, oh, you know, there

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was another woman that disappeared. I remember her mother calling

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my mother for years, checking to see if they had

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heard from her. I think her name was Sharon. Now,

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after this conversation, Rose sits down at a typewriter and

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she basically logged every word she could remember from that conversation,

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knowing she may need it later. She also called a

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public library in Lake Charles. That librarian remembered the nineteen

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sixty two drowning of Vale's first wife, Ma, and that

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library recalled that he had taken out life insurance policies

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on his wife prior to her drowning. She also said

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the insurance companies were suspicious and didn't pay the full value.

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The library made some copies of the newspaper articles and

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actually mailed them to Annet's mother. After reading them, Rose

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reached out to Mary's family in Louisiana and she spoke

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to Will Horton, which was Mary's brother. He shared the

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suspicions he had about Vail, and also a copy of

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a nineteen seventy one National Inquirer article. When she read it,

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she knew that Sharon's last name was Hensley, so that

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solved one problem, but created another. Where was Sharon Hensley from?

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She didn't have any idea, she had never heard of her.

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In nineteen ninety four, she read in the newspaper about

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Delores Strullo's disappearance from Medford, Oregon, seven years earlier. Police

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had just arrested her husband thanks to the work of

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a detective by the name of Terry Nele. So she

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got an idea. She figured, if this guy could do that,

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maybe he can help me. She contact Noll and he

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was able to help her find the family of Sharon Hensley.

240
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So when Rose dialed Hensley's family, Sharon's mother, Peggy answered

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00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:23,360
the first question. Rose asked, do you happen to know

242
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who Felix Vale is?

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Speaker 1: You bet? I do?

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Speaker 3: Sharon Heinsley's mother said back, and Rose replied, we need

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to talk now. At this time, Vale was living with

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his mother and father in their home in my Pelier, Mississippi.

247
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During the day he will work some on the family farm,

248
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and he also tinred with his Fiat which is a

249
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car for you young people out there, and used his

250
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gravity boots to hang upside down in the barn. One day,

251
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he actually chased off a three legged hound dog. He

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wrote in his journal, Remember I told you he liked

253
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the journal. The next day he wrote, I shot the

254
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three legged dog and cleaned up the garbage. He detailed

255
00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:12,279
in his journal about winning pool games and screwing women,

256
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sometimes having sex in a grain bend, an old bus,

257
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or their homes while their husbands were away. This was

258
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in nineteen ninety two. Also in nineteen ninety two, Robinsinclair,

259
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,200
she telephoned a Mississippi newspaper wanting to buy an advertisement

260
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to remind Veil that he had a daughter he had

261
00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:35,000
never met. The newspaper put her in touch with Vel,

262
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and the two began writing letters back and forth and

263
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talking on the telephone. In one note, Vel stated he

264
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had never gotten over me.

265
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Speaker 1: She recalled.

266
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Speaker 3: She felt confused by his words, she said, because she

267
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,359
said she was already living with a man who made

268
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her happy and who would be her future husband. When

269
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Vail arrived a few months later, she said, the same

270
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magic she had felt with him more than twenty years

271
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,119
earlier had vanished. I realized that he was a fraud,

272
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,680
of bomb and kind of a joke. So during this time,

273
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Mary Rose she had contacted everyone she could think of,

274
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even the FBI and the detective who had helped her before,

275
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,759
Terry Noll. He contacted Jim Bell, a national expert in

276
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,200
serial killings who actually worked for the FBI, and when

277
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Rose talked with Bell, she felt like she had hit

278
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:31,319
the jackpot. He was interested in working on Vale's case

279
00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:35,000
if he could swing the time he was busy. Serial

280
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,119
killers seemed to be active during that time in history.

281
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Now Vail's son Bill, he told Rose that he was

282
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willing to testify as long as authorities provided protection to

283
00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:49,359
his family. Both the Tulsa Police and the District Attorney's

284
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,279
office in Lake Charles they revived their investigations into Vail,

285
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,079
now considered a suspected serial killer, and Bell suggested the

286
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,759
victim's families gather with authorities at the FBI Academy in

287
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,799
Virginia to share that information on Veil. He was unable

288
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:09,720
to work on the case and left the FBI in

289
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,720
nineteen ninety five. The meeting in Quantico never materialized in

290
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:20,200
the case involving Veil grew cold yet again. So obviously

291
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,799
Roses devastated. She had worked so hard to make something

292
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,240
happen and nothing had happened. She knew that other families

293
00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:28,559
felt devastated too.

294
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:29,039
Speaker 1: Now.

295
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,559
Speaker 3: In the men nineteen nineties, Veil began dating a woman

296
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,039
in Mississippi. At the time, he was fifty five and

297
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,759
she was forty four. In ten years, I never saw

298
00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:43,640
a temper, the woman said. She recalled Veil taking care

299
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,960
of his parents before their deaths, and she described him

300
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,799
as very attentive. She said he was just a kind man,

301
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,359
although he never worked a job. She said he was

302
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,400
the most frugal person she had ever met. He could

303
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,519
probably live off three hundred dollars a month. He got

304
00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:03,319
rental money from a house in Tulsa, and all that

305
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:08,440
is a nets house that he fucking stole from her.

306
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,519
One day, she tried to step across the swollen creek

307
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,680
in front of her house, knocked off her feet. She

308
00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:19,200
got dragged downstream, and she said, if I had died

309
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,440
in the creek, I would have been added to the

310
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,680
list of people that Felix supposedly killed. And she actually

311
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,720
brings up a good point. There would have been another

312
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:33,319
strange death, and she's using that as a example of

313
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:34,480
how that shit can happen.

314
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,839
Speaker 1: I don't buy it.

315
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: She knew of the allegations that Veil had something to

316
00:20:39,079 --> 00:20:42,440
do with the net Veil's disappearance, but she was unaware

317
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,880
of Sharon Hinsley's disappearance or the suspicion surrounding Mary Horton.

318
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,160
That man, she insisted, was not the man I know.

319
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,319
So let's get into after that article I told you

320
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,480
about gone was written by Jerry Mitchell, and I'm gonna

321
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:02,839
pick up with his account of that. He starts trying

322
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:06,400
to find Veil hisself in twenty twelve, and he finds

323
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,440
out that where Veil was living, he had sold all

324
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:13,759
his acreage he had like seventeen acres from his parents

325
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,440
and he shut up there and there was just a

326
00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:26,119
storm damage trailer, etc. But no contents whatsoever in that trailer.

327
00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,119
So he calls Veil's brother, Ronnie, and Vale's brother Ronnie said,

328
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:30,880
I don't.

329
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,519
Speaker 1: Know where he went.

330
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,319
Speaker 3: He probably doesn't want anyone to know where he is. Ronnie,

331
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:39,079
who had work for the US Army Corps of Engineers

332
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,240
for twenty two years, told him that when he had

333
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,079
heard the allegations of the disappearances of these women, he

334
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,400
was as shocked as anybody else. So the reporter asked him,

335
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,039
did the FBI ever interview know? And I'm surprised they haven't,

336
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,240
he said, And then he picks up. After my story

337
00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:00,559
on Felix veil Gone appeared in The Clearing Life on

338
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,720
November eleventh, twenty twelve, I traveled to my failure to

339
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:08,119
meet a man who had telephoned me. Wesley Turnage grew

340
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,039
up with Val and recalled a conversation he had in

341
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:15,240
the month following his nineteen sixty three graduation from high school.

342
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,920
He said he had car trouble one day, and Val

343
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:21,880
gave him a ride to the Nickenbacker Manufacturing Company in

344
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,839
nearby West Point, where they both worked. During that drive,

345
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,319
he said, Val talked first of his son Bill and

346
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,079
then of his deceased wife, Mary, calling her his ex wife,

347
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,920
a word that kind of stuck with Turnage as strange,

348
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,519
since the two were not divorced at the time of

349
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:43,160
her death. He said, the longer Veil spoke, the angrier

350
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:46,559
he got. You could see the rage in his eyes.

351
00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:50,799
Val referred to Mary as a bitch, saying that she

352
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,279
thought another child would help solve her marriage problems. Turner's recalled.

353
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,960
He quoted Val as saying she wanted to have another kid.

354
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,880
I didn't want the one I got. I told her

355
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,799
I fixed that. Sorry, bitch, she'll never have another one.

356
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,440
Time marched on, but he said he never forgot what

357
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:10,799
Veil told him. It's like nine to eleven.

358
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: He said.

359
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: Some things just stick in your mind. So the reporter

360
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,640
returned to Lake Charles, puzzled by how Veil dided an

361
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,599
indictment in that nineteen sixty two death of his wife.

362
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,359
Her brother Will Horton joined me in the Calkashu Clerk's

363
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,240
office as I poured through stacks of records trying to

364
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,319
find out more information about the grand jury that met

365
00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:36,759
on the case. Flipping through the pages, I noticed a

366
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,799
lot of criminal cases had been dismissed in nineteen sixty two.

367
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,960
When I added them up, I realized the district attorney

368
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:47,599
had the judge dismissed eight hundred and eighty two cases,

369
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,559
which were more than three cases for each working day.

370
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,200
Mary's brother told me the original detectives in the case

371
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:58,799
told him that the judge would not allow them to

372
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:02,880
present evidence that they had collected against Vail that match

373
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,240
the stories I had heard from the grand Jerry's families.

374
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:10,359
Mary's brother left while I continued to dig. A half

375
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,599
hour later, he called me to let me know he

376
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,160
was talking with District Attorney John Derozer. He's from Unice,

377
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:21,759
just like me, Horton said. I walked over and met Deroza,

378
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,119
a Vietnam veteran. He viewed himself as the guy wearing

379
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,079
the white hat and battling the bad guys. He even

380
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,200
kept a life size cutout of John Wayne in his office.

381
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:34,880
He said he would be willing to reopen the case

382
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,000
if there was enough evidence. Afterwards, I telephoned a retired

383
00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:43,240
lawyer who had known Frank Salter Junior, who was the

384
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,359
then district attorney in nineteen sixty three. The cheerful, white

385
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,039
haired man who built boats and model airplanes greeted Horton

386
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,720
and me at the door and invited us to join

387
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:58,839
him at the kitchen table. A talented attorney in both

388
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,119
civil and criminal courts. Russell Tritticko, Senior, had won a

389
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:08,079
nineteen eighty civil judgment forcing chainsaw manufacturers to put chain

390
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,359
brakes on their products. The eighty four year old retired

391
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,400
lawyer recalled the corruption of those days. He worked back

392
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,160
then under his uncle Joe, who represented the then sheriff

393
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Ham Reid, accused of taking bribes but never convicted. Triticko

394
00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:28,160
said the sheriff was so paranoid he stayed in his

395
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,079
patrol car and he never answered the telephone at home

396
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:35,400
unless he heard the right sequence of rings. He described

397
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,960
Salter as a longtime prosecutor whose close friends were mostly

398
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,079
what I called hoodlums. In the nineteen fifties, Salter began

399
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,640
his legal career as an assistant DA for then District

400
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,000
Attorney Ed Shannon. When the senior prosecutor saw reelection in

401
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:57,160
nineteen sixty, Salter ran against him. Triticko said the major

402
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:02,599
issue Salter raised was Shanahan had just dismissed too many cases.

403
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,799
Then Frank became DA and he does the same thing.

404
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:11,799
Dismissals became business as usual in defense. Lawyer's showered office

405
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:16,319
secretaries with gifts, especially at Christmas. He recalled, it was

406
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,279
easy money. Of course, the victim might not be happy.

407
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,680
He knew about the nineteen sixty two death of Mary

408
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,240
Horton Vale. When his uncle Joe ran against Salter in

409
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,920
nineteen sixty six, her death became a political issue. The

410
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880
candidate shed a photograph of her body after it was

411
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,200
recovered from the river as proof of Salter's political favor.

412
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,519
I asked Triteco about the City's Service, and he told

413
00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:46,200
me the company was like the General Motors of the

414
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:50,720
late Charles Louisiana area. I knew Veil's uncle, Thomas Finney,

415
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:54,000
had worked there as a supervisor and had arranged for

416
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,920
Vale's job. In searching for Salter's obituary, I had run

417
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,160
across the one for his father, who had also worked

418
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,680
at City Service. When I visited Vinnie's ninety four year

419
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,440
old widow, Virginia, she confirmed the couple's friendship with the

420
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:15,039
district attorney. I shared what Vell said about troutline fishing

421
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,759
that night, and Tritiko shook his head. The longtime fisherman

422
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,000
questioned why Vell would have traveled so many miles up

423
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,119
the Calkashi River when he could have laid trout lines

424
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,359
not far from where he kept his boat. You just

425
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,440
don't run trout lines in deep water, he said. So

426
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,599
where had Felix Veil gone? He had just disappeared, like

427
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,519
the women he professed to once love. I telephoned more

428
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,920
of his relatives and friends. They were just as clueless

429
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,920
as me. Weeks after Gone was published, I received a

430
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:52,440
telephone call from a man who had read my nearly

431
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:57,559
nine thousand words story online. We discussed Veil, the case

432
00:27:57,599 --> 00:28:01,279
against him, ain't his disappearance before? The man volunteered. I

433
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,240
know where he is.

434
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:07,079
Speaker 1: You do, Canyon Lake, Texas? He said. Would you like

435
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,000
his po box? You bet? I said.

436
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: Back In Jackson, I telephoned Insign Yassek of Boston, the

437
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,200
founder of the Serial Homicide Expertise and Information Sharing Collaborative.

438
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: That's a mouthful.

439
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,759
Speaker 3: No matter what questions I had about serial killers, he

440
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,039
had the answers thanks to a huge database he had amassed.

441
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,519
My search for answers in the Veil case led Yazak

442
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,519
to contact Arman Showalter, acting chief for the FBI's Behavioral

443
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,000
Analysis Unit, which specialized in serial homicide investigations. He also

444
00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:50,319
shared a copy of Gone with Showalter, who in turn,

445
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:55,799
contacted Kaal Kashu Parish Deputy Randy Curtis, now taking on

446
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,160
the Veil case. Curtis telephoned me, explained that he was

447
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,640
a twenty year law enforcement veteran who had been transferred

448
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,519
from the Violent Crimes Unit to the Forensic Cold Case Division.

449
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:09,839
After reading gone, he caught me back wondering if I

450
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:15,200
knew where Veil was these days, Canyon Lake, Texas, I said.

451
00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:19,079
Days later, the deputy telephone with news that the FBI

452
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:24,119
had discovered Veil purchased property on Shady View Drive in

453
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,359
Canyon Lake, and on January eighteenth of twenty thirteen, Curtis

454
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:32,440
decided to confront Vail. He found the suspected serial killer

455
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:35,920
at that address, living in a storage shed so large

456
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,160
that it could be a home. Curtis said he read

457
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,480
Veil's rights before asking him about the death and disappearances

458
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:46,319
of the women, and Veil refused to say anything, accusing

459
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,000
families and the Clarion Ledger of lying about him. The

460
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:57,160
whole time, Veil couldn't stop smirking, and that's his major arrogance.

461
00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:57,559
Speaker 1: Y'all.

462
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,799
Speaker 3: The sight of that smirk and angered Kurk, who worked

463
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,000
days nights and weekends on that case. One day he

464
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:08,720
called me to tell me he found something big, and

465
00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:12,960
not long after this call, Will Horton shared the number

466
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:15,839
of his cousin who was in the same rosary group

467
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,000
with a caretaker for ninety year old Isaac Sunny. Abshire.

468
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:23,079
I drove to Lake Charles and sat down with the

469
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:26,200
man who was finishing his lunch in front of the television.

470
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,839
He remembered Vail well. The pair had worked together at

471
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,240
a chemical plant next to the City Service refinery in

472
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:38,359
nearby Sulfur, Louisiana. Abshire described Vel as my helper and

473
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,119
a good worker.

474
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,079
Speaker 1: I liked him.

475
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,319
Speaker 3: Vale was looking for a place closer to his girlfriend,

476
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,079
Mary Horton, who was living in Lake Charles. Needing the cash,

477
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,519
Abshire offered him a room for rent. He accepted, and

478
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:54,279
Mary became a frequent visitor. I was kind of like

479
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:56,720
a big brother to her. He said. She was a

480
00:30:56,759 --> 00:30:59,960
sweet little girl. After the couple decided to get married,

481
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:05,079
Val moved out. At work, his disposition soured. He talked

482
00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:08,079
about how ugly his wife was when she was pregnant,

483
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:11,680
and that he didn't like his baby. Even a dog

484
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,160
loves their children, Abshire said on the friday before drowning,

485
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,480
the couple visited, bringing their infant son Bill. Mary confided

486
00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,720
in Abshire asking if he thought Val could take her

487
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:28,119
baby away. Two nights later, word came that Mary had

488
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,480
drowned in the kal Kashu River. Deputies contacted Abshire's father

489
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,799
to help in the search, so Abshire and two fellow

490
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:39,440
workers they went out the next day to drag the river.

491
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:43,759
The next morning, October thirtieth, nineteen sixty two, he returned

492
00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:47,599
with one of them, Jimmy May, to continue dragging. While

493
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:51,920
they're talking, something popped up. A guy with binoculars asked,

494
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,920
does she have blonde hair? I said, yes, that's her.

495
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:58,119
They were covered the body and Abshire could not forget

496
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,519
what he saw. Her body was rigid and a scarf

497
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,240
was wrapped around her neck before going into her mouth,

498
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,240
and had a big old knot in it, he said.

499
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,400
The deputies on the boat boiled in anger, all voicing

500
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,160
the same opinion Veil had killed Mary. They believed it

501
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,119
was foul play just by looking at the body. A

502
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,759
deputy shared copies of the photographs taken that day, and

503
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:26,039
Abshar had held on to them ever since, placing them

504
00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:29,599
in a folder he marked, keep you hung onto these

505
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:34,079
photos for fifty years? I asked, yes, he replied, he

506
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,319
told me. He gave the photos to Deputy Curtis. He

507
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,240
also handed over a copy of the nineteen sixty two

508
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:46,160
Sheriffs Support, which listed fifteen points suggesting Vail's guilt. Despite

509
00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:49,599
being behind on major bills, Veil had managed to pay

510
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:53,519
an entire year's premiums in advance for a fifty thousand

511
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:56,759
dollars life insurance policy on his wife. He had a

512
00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:00,279
second life insurance policy on her for eight thousand dollars,

513
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:03,400
which promised to pay double if she died by accident.

514
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,880
Deputies reported that witnesses said Veil told them he didn't

515
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,400
love his wife and that she was stupid and she

516
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,319
looked vulgar. Deputies also reported that Veil had sexual relationships

517
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:20,599
with other females and at least one male. Most witnesses

518
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,640
they talked to felt like he was capable of killing

519
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,599
his wife. Val told deputies that his wife was wearing

520
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,799
an off white leather jacket when she went into the water,

521
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,839
but she wasn't wearing the jacket when her body was recovered.

522
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:40,160
Inside his boat, deputies found two life preservers, Mary had

523
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,920
not been wearing one, despite her fear of drowning. As

524
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,960
for that troutline, deputies found it coiled inside.

525
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: Veil's tackle box.

526
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,799
Speaker 3: That's why Abshire told me. That's why they thought it

527
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,960
was fishy. When he returned to work, he told his

528
00:33:56,079 --> 00:34:00,079
coworkers what he witnessed were spread, and he said his

529
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,960
boss hauled him in and told him to stop sharing

530
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,640
what he saw. Eventually, Abshire faced off with Vel. He

531
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,760
said he had lawyers that were ready to see me

532
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,440
for everything I had, for all I was saying about him.

533
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,480
Get your lawyer ready, I told him I want to

534
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,639
get on the witness stand and tell everybody what had happened.

535
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:24,559
After some time past, Abshire said, Val telephoned him, asking

536
00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:27,559
if he still wanted to tell everything to the lawyers.

537
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:31,800
Get them, Abshire said, He replied, I'm still ready to talk.

538
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,000
I want to get on the stand and tell him

539
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,760
what I know. Not long after Vell left town, I

540
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,559
asked him if he believed thell had killed his wife.

541
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,159
Oh my god, yes, he said. I then met with

542
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,559
Steve Horton, who talked about his aunt Mary, whom his

543
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,960
family adored so much that he and his wife had

544
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:56,920
named their daughter after her. He showed me her nineteen

545
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,400
sixty two death certificate, signed by the corner doctor Harry Snattick.

546
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:04,880
The certificate said she fell from the boat while fishing

547
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,000
and accidentally drowning. Horton detailed the many errors Snattic could

548
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,960
put down, the wrong date of her birth for example,

549
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:15,679
the wrong date of her death, the wrong occupation. He

550
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,440
pointed to the neat signature William Veil. It looked nothing

551
00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:23,960
like the handwriting William Felix Veil typically had. He then

552
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:27,519
directed me to the date of veil signature October thirty

553
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,199
first of nineteen sixty two. That was the same day

554
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:33,920
at the funeral, he said, which was in Yennie. How

555
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,679
could he have signed this in Lake Charles. Horton shared

556
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,079
other documents which showed Veil had failed to pay any

557
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:44,320
money towards the one thy fourteen dollars bill for his

558
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,159
wife's funeral, or her headstone, or even her burial plot.

559
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,400
Dear sir, I would have contacted you sooner if I

560
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,880
would have known anything definite about when I can pay you,

561
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,840
Veil wrote order On's funeral home in nineteen sixty three.

562
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,920
Thank you for your patience and I'll be in your

563
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,119
office in the first part of April to settle the bill. Yours, truly,

564
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:11,039
Felix Veil. Bell never showed, never paid, despite receiving thousands

565
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:14,599
on two life insurance policies that he took out on Mary.

566
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,519
The funeral home won a judgment of thirteen hundred and

567
00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:21,400
six dollars in Mississippi against Vail, and he still didn't pay.

568
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,800
It was during a bridge game in nineteen sixty nine

569
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,559
that Mary's mother larned Veil had never put a penny

570
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,960
towards the funeral. She was so embarrassed she went in

571
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:35,079
and paid it herself. I spoke with the funeral home operator,

572
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:39,239
Jeane Ordworn. He remembered Mary as a beautiful girl. They

573
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,519
had a marriage not made in heaven, but made in hell,

574
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,960
he said. So I decided to take a trip to

575
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,119
Kenyon Lake, and when I drove into the Canyon Lake

576
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:54,039
neighborhood where Bell lived, I saw a deer grazing the lawns.

577
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,920
Paperwork I copied at the courthouse prior to my trip

578
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,639
showed David Thomason and d need his property to Veil

579
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,880
after he paid the back taxes. So I dug into

580
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,480
Thomasin's background, and I discovered that he and Vales shared

581
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:13,400
something in common. Each of those guys had a wife

582
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,320
who died in an accidental drowning, so I decided to

583
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,119
dig deeper. Thomasin's estranged wife, Kathy, she had drowned in

584
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,079
Kenyon Lake.

585
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: This was on.

586
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,559
Speaker 3: July third of two thousand and five. Her family still

587
00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:32,480
had questions. Her mother, Kathy Simon, who still lived in

588
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:35,079
Kenyon Lake, told me her daughter tried to get away

589
00:37:35,079 --> 00:37:39,559
from Thomasin, who was charged twice with assault but never prosecuted.

590
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,039
She was terrified of him. On the back lot of

591
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,840
Vale's property, I could see the boat Kathy supposedly fell

592
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,920
from and drown Friends told me Thomasin was out of

593
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,599
town at the time. If he did take out a

594
00:37:53,639 --> 00:37:56,480
life insurance policy on her, I couldn't find it, but

595
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:59,400
I did find insurance companies. Shelled out more than a

596
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,079
half million dollars in preseeds to him, including two hundred

597
00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:05,840
and fifteen thousand dollars for a house fire that the

598
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,400
fire marshal thought was suspicious. Vale now lived on this property,

599
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,679
and when I pulled up outside his home, I noticed

600
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,519
there were no windows. The padlocked fence had barbed wire

601
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:19,480
across the top. I called out his name and told

602
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:22,639
him I was interested into speaking with him about the

603
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:23,400
missing women.

604
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: There was no answer.

605
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,559
Speaker 3: On March tenth of twenty thirteen, I received an email

606
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,400
from someone by the name of Gina Fretzel, a redheaded

607
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,440
private investigator whose colleagues nicknamed her Batgirl. She was obsessed

608
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,480
with serial killers. She had already read the e book

609
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:44,599
version of Gone before going online to discover Felix. Vale

610
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,719
was now living in Kenyon Lake. That was only an

611
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,960
hour and a half away from her home in Kerrville, Texas,

612
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:54,719
where her grandfather had been chief of police for twenty years.

613
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,920
I'm a licensed pis, she wrote me. Let me know

614
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,199
if you need any help. I promised I would later.

615
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,719
I sent a second email saying I'd like to find

616
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,559
out more about the suspicious burning of David Thomason's house

617
00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:08,840
on the property.

618
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: Where Veil now lived.

619
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: On April third, she tried to talk to thomasin and

620
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,039
when she was unable to, she telephoned and said she

621
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,800
was going to see Veil. He won't talk to you,

622
00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:22,880
I told her, want to bet. She called back later

623
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,920
with the news that vel had indeed talked. She told

624
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,239
him she was an investigator looking into the Thomasin fire

625
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,840
and he had spoken almost non stop to her. She

626
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,199
returned several more times, recording each of her conversations with Vel.

627
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,280
He shared details about his life and lectured her about

628
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,239
the dangers of ego, even as his own ego overwhelmed

629
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,800
their conversations. He told her he had a genius level

630
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,800
IQ surpassing one pin forty, and talked to memories from

631
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,000
the wound, saying he could fill the sunshine on his

632
00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:01,079
mother's belly. Wow I shared the information him from Frenzel's

633
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,519
visits with the expert Yazzi. He provided many more hours

634
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:08,480
of advice and insights, saying Val seem more in line

635
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:11,800
with a cult leader than a suspected serial killer. For

636
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,800
more than a dozen hours, Vale spouted off to frenzle

637
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,320
about diet. He talked about his adventures, which included motorcycling

638
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,719
with a Dutch woman across the US and bicycling with

639
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,599
a teenage boy across California. Val regaled her with stories

640
00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:32,960
of his sexual exploits, having talked of having sex with hundreds,

641
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,480
maybe even thousands of women, before adding that he didn't

642
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:39,719
consider himself promiscuous.

643
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:41,559
Speaker 1: He asked her to have sex.

644
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 3: She told him no, that she didn't know him well

645
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,840
enough to have sex, and I knew that was coming.

646
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,599
By now, Frenzel had begun to play the role of

647
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:54,360
Vale's girlfriend, despite the fact that they had never even kissed.

648
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,840
The conversations grew darker. He talked about how much he

649
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:04,440
knew about killing people, murdering, pain incapacitating people. He said

650
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,480
he and Thompson had enough an amenity that we are

651
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:11,280
held in suspicion by all of our family and friends

652
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,760
for being able to think of something and do it

653
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,000
without looking at whether it's legal or not, or permissible

654
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,280
by society or not. He talked of eating live raw meat, saying,

655
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,119
if you're going to eat animals, you would have to

656
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,679
kill them and drink the blood, suck it out of

657
00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:27,880
the body and drink.

658
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,639
Speaker 1: It right then that would be live meat.

659
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,039
Speaker 3: After Veil talked about a young woman who was obviously

660
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,119
a net, Frienzil asked him if he had talked to

661
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:41,039
her since his eyes got huge. She told me it

662
00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:45,639
was the most evil luck I've ever seen. Eleven days

663
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:51,079
after Frienzill first contacted Mevel's sister, Kay Faulkner telephone destroyed

664
00:41:51,199 --> 00:41:54,519
about her younger brother Ronnie's dying.

665
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: She said.

666
00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: I replied that I was sorry to hear that his

667
00:41:59,039 --> 00:42:02,079
body had been ra sage for years by the hepatitis

668
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,239
sea he contracted during the Vietnam War. A lever transplant

669
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,320
had saved his life a dozen years earlier, but now

670
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,239
his second lever was failing. Faulkner told me it was

671
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,719
her birthday and that she would never forget this day.

672
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,920
She began weeping. I know God has a plan, but

673
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:24,679
why couldn't he take Felix instead. After our conversation, I

674
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,159
spoke with Mary Rose, mentioning it was Faulkner's birthday. It's

675
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:31,039
my birthday too, She said, I had no idea Cay

676
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:34,119
and I shared the same birthday. We talked about the

677
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:38,000
case against Felix Veil, and she was worried that authorities

678
00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:43,119
might do nothing. Ever, since Vail had sold his Mississippi property,

679
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:46,280
she had been wondering if he would also sell his

680
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,039
Tulsa property, property she and Annette had once owned. Weeks later,

681
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:53,559
she called with the news that Vail had sold that

682
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,679
Tulsa house. The sale price online one hundred and forty

683
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,519
nine thousand dollars. Now that he has all the money,

684
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:03,400
do you think he's gonna run? Jerry, I don't know,

685
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,480
I replied, he could be running. On April thirtieth, my

686
00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:12,199
telephone reigned that Felix Vale had now left Texas. His

687
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,599
sister told me that he had shown up the previous

688
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:18,679
morning at the Columbus, Mississippi home of their late brother, Ronnie,

689
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,000
who had died five weeks earlier. Veil had skipped the funeral.

690
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,400
When Ronnie's widow, Bonnie, spotted Vail, she went to a

691
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,679
relative's employer, called police and told them that she didn't

692
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:34,920
want to talk to him. A worker told Vale to

693
00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:39,280
move on. That afternoon, cal Kashu Parish Deputy Randy Curtis

694
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,800
called me with more news. Val had returned to his

695
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,079
brother's property again, this time when Bonnie was gone. Neighbors

696
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:50,480
spotted him checking her mailbox, then hopping a fence and

697
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:55,639
circling her house. Columbus police and other law enforcement officials

698
00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:58,440
found Veil in a white pickup and pulled him over.

699
00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:01,000
He told them he had come there for a funeral

700
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:05,719
before heading to Montpelier. Curtis said Columbus police were sending

701
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,960
him a photograph of Veil and his truck, and he

702
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:14,119
could be running. Jerry, I know, I replied. Vel's sister

703
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,639
telephoned again, saying she heard her brother was heading to Montpelier.

704
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,559
She wondered if he was driving to the home of

705
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,400
possible witness Wesley Turnage. I called Turnage to let him

706
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,360
know that Veil might be headed his way if he

707
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,360
sets foot on my property. Turn and said there ain't

708
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,239
gonna be a trial. He called me back later, saying

709
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,280
no one in mott Peelier had seen Veil. Are the

710
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,559
authorities ever going to do anything? I think so well,

711
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:47,360
they better get moving, he said. In his last conversation

712
00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:51,119
with his dying brother, Veil had confided to Ronnie, a

713
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:55,840
one time missionary in the Philippines, what he experienced preaching

714
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,519
as a teenager at the Montpelier Baptist Church, seeing a

715
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:04,239
divine being that shimmered like the sun. It was a

716
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,679
bad mistake, Veil recalled, because he was thinking I was

717
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,320
touched by a demon. I called Frenzel, who speculated the

718
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,679
Veil's visit has to do with something his brother had,

719
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:18,639
and he wants it now that his brother's dead. Whatever

720
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:21,960
it is, Felix is willing to rest, going to Mississippi

721
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,000
and breaking into a place to get it. He didn't

722
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:28,159
even resk going to the funeral. So where's Vel now?

723
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:32,360
Columbus police didn't know. The Sheriff's office in Lake Charles

724
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,599
didn't know. Even his family didn't know. Frenzid Veil had

725
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:41,639
talked about living in Switzerland. Could this be the last goodbyes?

726
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:42,559
Speaker 1: Before leaving?

727
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:46,519
Speaker 3: At ten thirty pm, Frenzel telephoned, I'm sorry to be

728
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:51,519
calling so late. It's okay, I'm up, I said. She

729
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:54,400
talked of the journals she had seen the Veil was

730
00:45:54,519 --> 00:45:57,599
keeping in the plastic bins. She had been unable to

731
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:00,440
read them so far, but she had taken photoge grass

732
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:04,119
of the backsides of the pages. She shared the photos

733
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:08,199
with a computer expert who analyzed them, spotting these words

734
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:13,480
on the same line, wife, attic and divided. Could Val

735
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:17,239
have given his brother something to keep? Perhaps stuff something

736
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,679
in the attic? The next morning I spoke with Deputy Curtis.

737
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,639
He said Bonnie had given the police permission to search

738
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:28,360
her property in case Veil had hid something there. That search,

739
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:32,000
I told him should include the attic. He called back

740
00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:36,159
later to say the search had turned up nothing. Each day,

741
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,559
I made a run of calls, and each day no

742
00:46:38,599 --> 00:46:42,719
one had heard from Veil. Six days later, Friendze called

743
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,719
Val had just left her message saying he was back

744
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:52,119
in Kenyon Lake. Elijah, he didn't leave the country. I

745
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,760
telephoned Randy Curtis with the news that Veil was in

746
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,840
Kenyon Lake and he sounded relieved. I talked with Frenzle again.

747
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,280
She was anxious to confront Veil about the missing women.

748
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,719
She was also anxious to stop playing the role of

749
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,679
his girlfriend. But before she could, authorities arrested Veil, charging

750
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,280
him with the murders of his first wife Mary. After

751
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,880
that May seventeenth of rest, Veil wrote friends of letters

752
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,719
telling her he loved her, and telephone calls from jail

753
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:22,880
in Lake Charles.

754
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: He shared his.

755
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 3: Explanation of what happened that night on October twenty eighth,

756
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:31,519
nineteen sixty two, on the Klikashu River. He referred to

757
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:34,840
his first wife as a kuna ass lady, saying she

758
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:38,039
was half kneeling on his feet when she saw one

759
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:40,320
of his float buckets that were.

760
00:47:40,159 --> 00:47:41,159
Speaker 1: On the line.

761
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,559
Speaker 3: He said the boat was going real slow along the

762
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:45,760
edge of the bank when the boat hit a stump

763
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,199
and it dumped her right out. Dale said he shut

764
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,039
off the murder and jumped in where she had plopped

765
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:54,960
into the water and the river had sucked her right in.

766
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:58,480
He said, I dove around until I was exhausted, and

767
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:01,960
came in immediately to the police station in town and

768
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,239
reported the accident, and that was it. This story differed

769
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,400
greatly from his story in nineteen sixty two, when he

770
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,480
said his wife was sitting on top of a boat

771
00:48:11,559 --> 00:48:14,679
seat when she fell out, and not that she was

772
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,559
kneeling on his feet. Back then, he said nothing about

773
00:48:18,639 --> 00:48:22,039
hitting a stump, just swerving to miss it. Vale told

774
00:48:22,159 --> 00:48:25,559
Frenzel that the case has been an avalanche coming down

775
00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:28,679
a mountain all that time, waiting to hit my head,

776
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:33,079
and it finally has. He blamed the families in me

777
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,639
an evil, shrimpy reporter for what had happened, called the

778
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,039
charges fabricated, and insisted that a large amount of money, hate,

779
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:46,480
and political ambition is behind it. At Vale's request, Frenzil

780
00:48:46,599 --> 00:48:49,519
returned his truck to his home and went inside to

781
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:50,159
take care.

782
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: Of you task.

783
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,679
Speaker 3: While there, she spent sixteen hours photographing all of his journals.

784
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:02,400
More than twenty four hundred pages. She also photographed letters, documents, photographs,

785
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,639
and business cards, some dating back to the sixties. She

786
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,119
found a hodgepodge of women's jewelry on buttons and pens,

787
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:14,440
and even a glass dildo. Most disturbingly, she found a

788
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:18,480
photograph of a naked three year old girl. Frienzel later

789
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:20,920
spoke with the girl, who is now woman, and the

790
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:27,000
journals revealed that Veil had stalked her for years. Frienzil

791
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:30,440
discovered the Burth certificate of a nat craver Veil, who

792
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:34,280
had used it for previous strips to Mexico. Obviously, she

793
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,239
didn't take that with her. One of her oddest findings

794
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,119
was someone else's birth certificate, a man named Henry Curtis

795
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:45,599
ware the third. Two weeks after Veil's arrest, I telephoned

796
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:50,760
public defender Andrew Cassanet. The former prosecutor returned my calls

797
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,280
and asked what I wanted. Are you Felix VAL's lawyer

798
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,119
for now? Why are you calling me? I explained that

799
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:00,800
I have been working on a story on Veil having

800
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,159
a DNA test in connection with a nineteen ninety double

801
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:08,840
homicide in Starkville, Mississippi. Where two elderly women were raped

802
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,920
and killed. The crime struck me as the work of

803
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:16,719
someone else, a double homicide, he asked. He explained that

804
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,159
the Starkville police had just swabbed the inside of Bale's

805
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,559
cheeks testing his DNA. He said he hardly knew anything

806
00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:28,079
about Vale's case from the district attorney because the DA

807
00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:31,719
had been too busy talking to the press. I laughed,

808
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:36,440
you must be the investigative reporter mentioned in the arrest warrant. Yep,

809
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,719
that's me, I said. I knew it had to be you. Why,

810
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,440
I said, you're the only one who's called me. This

811
00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:45,760
killing happened all the way in Louisiana. Why are you

812
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,639
covering it in Mississippi. Well, it's where Felix Vale was

813
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,239
born and where he was living before he took off,

814
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,480
I said, took off. Sometimes people just leave. If I'm

815
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,559
in high school and I go to college, I just

816
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:03,760
leave us. I replied, Do you need anything else? Nope,

817
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,679
I replied, so Friendzly and I then plowed through Veil's journals,

818
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,039
noticing gaps that made us believe he had purged them.

819
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,960
Times when he would have been with Sharon and Annette

820
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,639
appeared to have been destroyed. Throughout his journals, his main

821
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,880
topic was sex, describing his exploits of women single and married,

822
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,800
straight and lesbian, conscious and unconscious. Even as he hopped

823
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,440
from bed to bed, he demanded monogamy, referring to women

824
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:34,960
as whores. Sex dominated his dreams, where women from his

825
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:39,519
past often appeared as characters. The journals also reflected an

826
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:44,280
obsession with children. In a March twenty seventh, nineteen eighty

827
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,480
sixth century, Vell described the visit of a woman and

828
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:51,320
her daughter's in his home. The little girls were delicious,

829
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,119
he wrote. We massage some, hugged and kissed some, and

830
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,320
it was twelve men night, in time for them to go.

831
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:00,559
Speaker 1: Fucker.

832
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,039
Speaker 3: On August twenty ninth, nineteen ninety two, Vil walked into

833
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:07,960
the Walmart in West Point, and a one year old

834
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,159
white girl looked in my eyes, loving me as if

835
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:13,960
there were no age difference between us.

836
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: Good grief.

837
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:18,599
Speaker 3: On July sixth of twenty thirteen, friends will email me

838
00:52:18,679 --> 00:52:22,199
something she spotted in the photographs of VAL's wife Mary,

839
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,159
taken after her body was discovered in the kayl Kashu River.

840
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,519
It looks like her panties are pulled out over the

841
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,400
top of her jeans in the small of her back.

842
00:52:33,039 --> 00:52:35,760
To me, this would be sign of a struggle. No

843
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,440
woman on the planet would allow that to happen with

844
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:41,159
her panties. I think it was a situation where he

845
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,320
grabbed for her jeans for leverage and her panty slipped

846
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,679
over the waistband. In the other photograph, her cayamegas sweatshirt

847
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,800
was bunched up and her mid drift was exposed. Her

848
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,920
sleep cuffs looked as if grease had been ground into them.

849
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,000
The autopsy report showed she had a big bruise on

850
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:01,679
the back of her head. Could she have been struck

851
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,760
from behind and then dragged the full weight of her body,

852
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,360
grinding the grease into her cuffs. That same day, Veil's sister,

853
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:13,159
Beth Keyes died of a massive heart attack. Her obituary

854
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,800
was an impressive one valedictorian of her high school, successful realtor,

855
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:23,119
and generous philanthropists. Her obituary listed all of her siblings

856
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:28,360
dead and living, with one exception, Felix Veil. A day later,

857
00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:32,159
fellow goenurernalist Stanley Nelson emailed me the name of a

858
00:53:32,199 --> 00:53:32,719
man I.

859
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: Should speak with.

860
00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 3: The Next day, I interviewed fifty eight year old Kirk

861
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,519
Germany of saucy A, Mississippi, who had worked alongside Veil

862
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,880
in nineteen seventy seven. Although Veil was aloof he just

863
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,039
seemed to have a strange mind control, trying to bring

864
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:52,679
people into his world in a manipulative sense. Germany said

865
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,280
he just had that Charles Manson personality. No matter where

866
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,159
they went, Veil attracted women. Felix claimed he was locked

867
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:05,480
in a Bavarian love not with this woman in Germany

868
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:08,440
said something like eighteen errors. What the hell is that?

869
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:09,079
Speaker 1: He said.

870
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:12,159
Speaker 3: Veil also remarked that the best sex he had ever

871
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,599
had was with either get this as sick.

872
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: A two or three year old girl.

873
00:54:18,679 --> 00:54:22,159
Speaker 3: In fall of twenty thirteen, I telephoned Lee Peck, a

874
00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:26,840
reporter for KPLCTV in Lake Charles who had aired several

875
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,440
stories on Veil. He had told me before that one

876
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,119
of their part time employees was working for Travelers Insurance

877
00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:37,400
when they sold Veil the fifty thousand dollars life insurance

878
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,079
policy on his wife Mary. This time, Peck gave me

879
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:46,199
her name, Jessine Brooks, whose telephone number I found online.

880
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,719
She answered the call and said she remembered the death well,

881
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,840
it was, she said, the first time she had ever

882
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:58,280
read an autopsy. She described Veil as cold and unemotional

883
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,199
in his dealings. Deputies told her they knew he had

884
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,480
killed his wife, but they couldn't prove it.

885
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,159
Speaker 1: She said.

886
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 3: Veil's wife did not sign the policy and she needed

887
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,559
to sign it. The agent got in a little trouble.

888
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:13,960
Despite being the major breadwinner, Veil didn't take out a

889
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,920
policy on himself. The insurance company wound up settling the claim.

890
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,199
I was surprised he got anything, Brooke said, because she

891
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,360
had not signed it. Friendzil and I tracked down Kurt Ware,

892
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,760
who was stunned to learn that a copy of his

893
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,559
birth certificate had been found at Veil's home. The copy

894
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:36,880
had been ordered in January of nineteen seventy three. Had

895
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,800
Veil ordered that birth certificate? And if so, why was

896
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,480
he going to adopt this as his new identity. Ware

897
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:48,920
didn't recognize the name Felix Vel, but he did recognize

898
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,760
Vel and his girlfriend, Sharon Hensley. After I emailed him photographs,

899
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,880
he said he had met them in nineteen seventy two,

900
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,079
possibly at the health food place where he worked.

901
00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:59,639
Speaker 1: In New Orleans.

902
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: His journals, Veil had written that they went by the

903
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:07,079
aliases Joseph and Helene Martin, and it even married under

904
00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:10,639
those names. Where said, those names did ring a bell.

905
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:14,800
He also said he and Vel bore a physical resemblance

906
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,280
to each other and would often hang out together on Saturdays.

907
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,480
He recalled Val entering a wine store, removing the sticker

908
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:25,280
from the most expensive wine and replacing it with a

909
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,960
sticker from the cheapest. He would literally spend three dollars

910
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,719
and come out with the best wine, he said, aloof

911
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:36,199
and intriguing. Val talked about grape fast where he ate

912
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,119
only grapes, Where said, and he only drank this German

913
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:45,039
wine made from white grapes. During one conversation, he said,

914
00:56:45,159 --> 00:56:48,800
Val asked him, have you ever killed someone? He felt

915
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,360
to chill. The way he said it made me think

916
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:55,559
he had killed somebody in his past. I tracked down

917
00:56:55,679 --> 00:56:58,840
Dick White, who recalled Val visiting him and his wife

918
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,800
for a month in their tees Simon in nineteen ninety three,

919
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,559
while working on a roof, They'll accidentally hit his finger

920
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:08,719
with a hammer, he said. They'll then argued with his

921
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,400
injured finger, you ain't hurting you, son of a bitch,

922
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,000
I'll make you hurt. They'll swung the hammer and smash

923
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:18,559
his finger a second time. During their work together on

924
00:57:18,639 --> 00:57:22,320
several projects, including building a barn, White said Veil told

925
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,159
him my ego wants to talk to you. White said

926
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:28,880
he replied Felix, I'm not dealing with you in the

927
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,039
third person. White said Veil drifted in and out of

928
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:36,800
different levels of sanity and insanity. Talk of mental illness

929
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,920
didn't surprise him. I knew Vel's late father suffered from

930
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,199
bipolar disorder.

931
00:57:42,239 --> 00:57:42,719
Speaker 1: He said.

932
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: They'll often watch television shows on schizophrenia, a popular topic

933
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,440
in his journals. He told Frienzil he believes the whole

934
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:55,400
human species is schitzo and y'all. That's where I am

935
00:57:55,519 --> 00:57:59,480
going to cut it off today and we should be

936
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:02,159
able to the next episode will wrap this up. It's

937
00:58:02,199 --> 00:58:04,440
about to really get into it because we're about to

938
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:09,639
get into the court testimony. But it's very important that

939
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:12,400
I give you the history of what was going on

940
00:58:12,599 --> 00:58:14,599
prior to that so you can see how sick and

941
00:58:14,639 --> 00:58:18,480
disgusting this asshole is. So I thank you so much

942
00:58:18,599 --> 00:58:19,400
for listening.

943
00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: Again.

944
00:58:20,639 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you're spending it with family. And

945
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:29,760
friends and loved ones, and I am sure thankful for

946
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all of you. And until next time, I'm Jim Chapman,

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your host of Bloody Angoa, a podcast one hundred and

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00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,519
forty two years into making the complete story of America's

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bloody is President Peace?

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00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: I walk the.

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00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: Street line shackle change, Oh gluesome Gurdie. It's calling my name.

952
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There is no mercy and it's been a tentery juice

953
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as the hill Stream game rangol the three.

954
00:59:27,239 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm here, be.

955
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Speaker 2: By, here to die inside these walls, inside the wild.

956
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Speaker 3: And when the.

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00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: Girl, as I know, it's so

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Speaker 2: Bloody, anglebody angle o.