WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.520 Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:04.839 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 3 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:07.719 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 4 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:10.480 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That 5 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:13.000 is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. 6 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:16.480 Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games 7 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:20.640 you can play for free, anytime anywhere with daily bonuses. 8 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:23.160 That's your brighten your day alone, actually a lot, so 9 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:26.559 sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck 10 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:29.719 Casino dot com. You'll be necessary detail by losty terms 11 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:30.879 and conditions eighteen plus. 12 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:34.600 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 13 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:38.200 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 14 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.640 the bride and groom orri Sorry we're here. We were 15 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:43.799 getting lucky in the limo when we lost track of time. 16 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.359 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 17 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:48.560 quicker than a guess registered. 18 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:50.920 But in that case, I pronounce. 19 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.000 You lucky him for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. 20 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.439 Daily bonuses are waiting. No purchase necessary boid. We're prohibited 21 00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:59.920 by long eighteen plus terms and conditions. The plaks seewebs 22 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:00.640 for details. 23 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.799 Look hosta. 24 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.719 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 25 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.840 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 26 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:26.200 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.920 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.560 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:45.640 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:49.680 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 31 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.840 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime 32 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:56.200 History and the authors that have written about them. Not 33 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.079 since the Green River Killer had the Pacific Northwest been 34 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:03.079 terrorized by so Savage. A serial killer by day, Robert 35 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.280 Lee Yates Junior, forty eight was a respected father of five, 36 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:09.960 a skilled helicopter pilot who served in Desert Storm and 37 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:13.000 a National Guard, and a man no one suspected of 38 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.240 a deadly hidden life. By night, he prowled the streets 39 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.840 where prostitutes gathered, gaining their trust before betraying them with 40 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:23.000 a bullet to the head. On August twenty sixth, nineteen 41 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:26.159 ninety seven, the half naked body of fifteen year old 42 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:29.439 sixteen year old street prostitute Jennifer Joseph was found in 43 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:33.319 an empty lot in Spokane, Washington. The same day, the 44 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.439 decomposed body of prostitute Heather Hernandez twenty was discovered in 45 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.120 a wheat field. Both women had been shot point blank 46 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:42.960 in the head. By the day after Christmas, four more 47 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.759 women were added to the mounting death toll. All were 48 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.759 found with plastic grocery bags tied over their heads, the 49 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.599 gruesome signature of a killer who had sexually violated each 50 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:56.599 one of them. After snuffing out their lives, Spokane's Elite 51 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.879 Homicide Task Force intense investigation turned up only one common 52 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.719 a white corvette driven by a frequent customer of Spokane prostitutes. 53 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.879 Investigators found a button from Jennifer Joseph's blouse and multiple 54 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:12.800 bloodstains in a vehicle recently sold by Rage Yates Junior. 55 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.879 On October eighteenth, two thousand, Yates pled guilty to thirteen 56 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:19.919 murders and was sentenced to four hundred and eight years 57 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:27.439 sentenced for two similar murders in Washington Pierce County. Yates 58 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.879 is now on death row awaiting execution. The book that 59 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.400 we're profiling tonight is Body Count and it's the Body 60 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:39.719 Count re release with my special guest, the incomparable Burl Bear. 61 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:42.520 Welcome back to the program, and thank you for this interview. 62 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:43.240 Burl Bear. 63 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:45.960 Well, it's a pleasure to always a pleasure to be 64 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:50.400 with you, Dan and incomparable that's quite a phrase. Thank you. 65 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:54.919 Well, thank you for coming on the program, because it's 66 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.639 always a lot of fun. And I didn't even know 67 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.960 true crime was fun. I didn't realize that. 68 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.000 So yeah, well you have to almost approach some of 69 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.759 them with a slight sense of gallows humor because it's 70 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:10.400 so tragic and these stories are so painful that you know, 71 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.800 it's not exactly compared anything to being an EMT or 72 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:17.800 a homicide detective in any way, shape or form, but 73 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.600 it's it can be very emotionally painful in draining to 74 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.000 write about these kinds of things, as you well. 75 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:26.879 Know, absolutely absolutely, it does take a little bit out 76 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.160 of you. So you do at least try to regain 77 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.120 some of that humor that you definitely have put aside 78 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:37.000 to to concentrate on something very very serious. And this 79 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.639 is one of those cases where you know, very unusual, 80 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.680 very unusual serial killer. We will. 81 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.000 I want to tell you something it's been a shocking 82 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.680 new update to this story. It will probably be in 83 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.720 the the EPO condition we've already gone to press, of course, 84 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.519 on the paperback. It came out yesterday with the update. 85 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.879 But there were three women that they originally thought were 86 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:11.600 victims of Robert Lias's Spokane serial killer. As it turns out, 87 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.720 the modus oparandi had a few things were different enough, 88 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:17.000 and was testing. It turns out that these three women, 89 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:20.879 the first three Yolanda Sap, Kathy Brisboy, and I can't 90 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:23.800 figure the third one right now. He forgives me. We're 91 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:27.279 murdered by somebody else, someone they called the Riverside killer 92 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.959 who was never caught. They sent off the DNA from 93 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.040 underneath the fingernails of the victims and they didn't have 94 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.879 a match. Well, science has advanced over the past few years. 95 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.399 Testing is more refined, and just recently they sent off 96 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:45.079 these samples again for analysis and BINGO. This time they 97 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.879 found a match someone who was already in custody on 98 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:53.199 federal firearms violations, a woman who used to be a man. 99 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:54.560 Wow. 100 00:05:55.319 --> 00:06:00.720 The alleged culprit had left Spokane, gone to Bangkok sexual 101 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.720 reassignment surgery and returned as a woman, but of course 102 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.279 the DNA stays the same, and allegedly, this this person 103 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.279 Donn or Donna, whoever we want to call him or her, 104 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.120 is more than a likely suspect, and they are in 105 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.560 custody and will doubtedly be charged with those three homicides. 106 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:26.120 Well, fascinating, fascinating update, if to say the least. And 107 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:28.759 the thing is with this book too, is this this 108 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.959 is a re release by basically a popular popular demand 109 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.040 from Pinnacle and Kensington. And it's interesting now that you 110 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:38.319 talk about the ebook and then published on demand, it 111 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.279 really you know, not that the book business is in 112 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:43.759 great shape, but this is one bit of good news 113 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.439 in terms of they used to discontinue books, didn't they 114 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.040 just people couldn't find them after a while. Wasn't it 115 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.600 just the case? 116 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.040 Oh yeah, that's both a blessing and a curse. If 117 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.240 a book is out of print for five years, the 118 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:58.800 author gets the rights back and can resell it or 119 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.680 print it themselves. However, if it's an e book, it'll 120 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.560 never go out of print, which means be optable if 121 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.720 it gets the right back, even if it's not promoted 122 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:10.399 or isn't selling well. But that's just you know, there's 123 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:13.040 always a trade off. There's pluses and everything and minuses 124 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:16.800 and everything. And the nice thing about the e books, 125 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.000 I was talking to my editor, to Kensad, and I said, 126 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.439 you know, on the e book, we can do an 127 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:25.279 update on this new information very easily. It's a matter 128 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.160 of a fire upload. And we do have some bonus 129 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.040 photographs in the e book edition, new photographs that weren't 130 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:36.399 in that aren't in the paperback edition. So there's you know, 131 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:38.639 there's always a little added inducements, both of course of 132 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.839 a few thousand new words at the end with updates 133 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:45.399 about what happened to everybody wherever they now, et cetera. 134 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.519 But it's a and I think I may have mentioned 135 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.000 we spoke before, but most people probably haven't heard that 136 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.560 the very first people that Robert Lee h Junior killed, 137 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:56.959 as far as we know, we're friends with my family 138 00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:58.720 and my hometown wall. 139 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.720 That was what's about That tells me that because one 140 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:05.240 of the very interesting things when I spoke to you 141 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.920 last time, and it was a long time ago, is 142 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:10.959 that there was thirteen other authors. That's how important this 143 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:14.519 serial killer wasn't, how interesting he was, and again how 144 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:18.240 unusual this case was and how savage a killer. That 145 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.120 was thirteen other authors vying for this book deal and 146 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:24.439 you were selected and part of the reason. 147 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:27.199 And I wasn't vying for it. I was actually kind 148 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.680 of avoiding it because it was too close to home. 149 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.679 Like I say, the first victims were friends of my 150 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.360 family and my little hometown of Walla Walla, Washington. One 151 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:42.159 of the last victims was someone who I also knew 152 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:46.799 personally on Off Girl, a friend of mine and Spokane 153 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.120 dr arms Jet. In fact, I saw her not too 154 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.639 long before she was murdered, and so I fell a 155 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.759 little bit close to it. My daughter had gone to 156 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.120 school with the serial killer's kids. We lived in the 157 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:02.960 same town, and I had, you know, like personal connection 158 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.919 to it. From a journalistic standpoint, you try not to. 159 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.879 But they said, well, listen, you're obviously the guy to 160 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.799 do it because you know the environs, you know the people, 161 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.240 you know the you know. The situation is that the towns, 162 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.759 the culture even know the people. And so I said, okay, 163 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:22.759 I'll do it. But I wound up being a character 164 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:28.159 in the book under an assumed name. When you come 165 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:34.960 across the fellow Jeff Reynolds The distance reading True Crime 166 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:36.799 author and wall of all of it is actually me. 167 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.320 I changed my name so I wouldn't be in my 168 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:39.879 own book. 169 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:43.159 Well, it's a lot of fun when you are though 170 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:46.960 bro well once you are, but you're you're noted for 171 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.960 that in your books anyway. From creating a little aliases right, 172 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:52.399 A lot. 173 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.279 Of people, you know, a lot of people don't want 174 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.399 their their real names used. And sometimes there's no reason 175 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.759 to use their real name because they're only connected to 176 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.080 the story tangently or by blood relation, and you donate 177 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:08.440 the aggravation of the humiliation, so as a courtesy you 178 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.720 give them an assumed name. Sometimes I've had people get 179 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.399 mad at me for not using assumed names in some 180 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:17.080 of the cases. But as I say, when you're writing 181 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.559 a book about say, ched Lundy, you're not going to 182 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:21.559 change his name to Ralph Schwartz. You know, just the 183 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.919 family and the embarrassment. You know, it's too late for that. 184 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:30.000 Yeah, you know. The thing I thought very interesting too 185 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.440 is when we spoke last time too, is that you 186 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:34.759 just touched on it. You had a friend named Arthur 187 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:36.919 and you were really good friends with him, and at 188 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:40.600 the time that's what you first met Darla, and then 189 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:43.559 you found out a little bit by in conversation with Darla, 190 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.240 which maybe you could tell us about that little conversation 191 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.279 that you had with her, kind of warning her. Oh, 192 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.960 it's interesting because that is really a very culling part 193 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:53.960 of this story. 194 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.120 Really well, I got this book, can't Actually for the 195 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.679 Bloomsday Miracon race, my son was running, and afterwards I 196 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.360 stopped to see my friend Arthur, who is staying you 197 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.919 had paranal problems with staying in a motel. And while 198 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.759 we're sitting there talking, this extremely attractive young lady comes 199 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:18.080 in wearing you know, those tank top and cut off 200 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.600 jean shorts so you could see all the way to Argentina. 201 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:26.159 She sits down and she starts bragging that she ripped 202 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.240 a guy off for five hundred dollars and the wait 203 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.320 I could tell him, somebody says, well, she was a basically, 204 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.639 you know, twenty to forty dollars street hooker. It turns out, 205 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:40.759 but this fellow, a very nice guy, clean guy, traveling salesman, 206 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.639 not dangerous operater, five hundred dollars for the weekend to 207 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.720 stay with him in the finest hotel in town twice 208 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:53.679 a month for the next year. Well, that considering that 209 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.200 would be a heck of a good job. Security wouldn't be, 210 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.600 you know, as dangerous as being on the street, but 211 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.919 being shortsighted to first five hundred dollars and ran away. 212 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:05.919 And I said to her, Darla, that was not very bright, 213 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.960 not only from an economic standpoint, but this is how 214 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.879 women in your line of work get, you know, disfigured 215 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.000 or killed. Because you may not remember him, but I 216 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:19.000 guarantee you he will never ever forget you. And men 217 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.200 are very vulnerable in those situations. And you do that 218 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:25.279 with the wrong guy, and you could wind up dead. 219 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:28.440 And the next time I saw anything of her was 220 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.159 the pictures of the body dump site where Robert Lee 221 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.279 Yates had killed her and dumped her body. She was 222 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.240 wearing the Mickey Mouse sweatshirt that my friend Arthur as 223 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.639 she was his and he had lent it to her 224 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:47.320 that day. It was a tragic, tragic story. 225 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.159 And what you had said too, is that your friend 226 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:55.399 Arthur had actually witnessed Yes Yates picking her up for 227 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:55.879 a date. 228 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:58.759 Yeah. I think she had been on a date with 229 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.480 him once before. And what isn't particularly enthusiastic. Apparently he's 230 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.600 gotten a little stranger, violent and scared her, but he 231 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:11.399 apologized was offering her significantly more money. Mart He said, 232 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.559 I don't think this is a good idea, because she said, oh, 233 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.120 you little thing. She's very headstrong to what she's going 234 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.799 to do. And he sat on the porch and watched 235 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.799 her go off and get an engaged car and drive away, 236 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:24.879 and that was the last time anyone saw her alive. 237 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.200 Now, this is a good time to sort of not 238 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.919 get into great detail, but at least this is why 239 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.720 I thought this guy's was so unusual. It's very unusual 240 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:39.399 for there to be no sort of events whatsoever. But 241 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.320 tell us about a little bit about the background of 242 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:48.159 Robert Lee Yates Junior, because again, this is quite unusual. 243 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.840 Well, it's just unusual. He did have a rather nice upbringing, 244 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:54.639 except for the fact that I think it was his 245 00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:00.240 grandmother killed his grandfather with an axe or vice versa. 246 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.559 Wasn't there for that. He was leisedly molested as a 247 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.240 youngster by one of the neighbors. But he had a 248 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:13.919 good upbringing. He had wonderful parents, really wonderful father, rather religious, 249 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.279 spiritual upbringing, very active in the church. He was greatly admired. 250 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:21.840 He was married once previously that didn't go well. His 251 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.000 wife apparently did an appreciation having a drilled a hole 252 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.639 in the wall to watch his neighbors have sex. So 253 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:32.480 they wounded up getting a divorced. He married his second wife. 254 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.080 They had I think five kids. He was a desert 255 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.679 storm veteran, a hard working guy. I mean he worked 256 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.840 in this aluminum manufacturing plan in spoken to kind of 257 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.679 worked at someone much younger, and you think, you know, 258 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:51.440 you think younger, stronger, able to put up with more 259 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:55.559 physical stress and aggravation because he wasn't, you know, a youngster. 260 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.919 But he worked his rear off at that job, and 261 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.679 people really admire him. A good family man, like I say, 262 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.720 a veteran, church going guy, the last human being, anyone 263 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:11.039 with respect, even the potential victims of people he knew, 264 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.120 and he needed virtually every working girl and Spokane there 265 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.240 was one that actually was like in love with him, 266 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.679 took him home to meet the folks. Uh, you know, 267 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.559 I just thought he was no one. Could I think 268 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:23.879 you imagine that it was him? 269 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.759 So so we really did have this alter ego where 270 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:34.519 he was this upstanding conformist, non drug taking you know. 271 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.559 So this this is a double life, most double life. Yeah, 272 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.320 and you talked too, yeah. Yeah. Now you talk about 273 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.759 this other the other end of town, you know the 274 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.960 mean streets here in East Sprague, and describe this area 275 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.200 because this is where his hunting grounds after your two 276 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:57.480 people that you did know were killed. And you say 277 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:02.639 the reason why that Yeats was very intelligent, because what 278 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:10.519 did he do after the two first victims. 279 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.600 A real big mistal. I mean, anytime killing people kept 280 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.519 each he should have a wise move. But he made 281 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.159 for a murder, a very large tactical mistake. He killed 282 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.679 two people who were very well known and high profile 283 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.519 and well liked in the community, and he shot them 284 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:29.759 with a three fifty seven magnum Well, there was huge investigation, 285 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.480 the rewards offered. It was a big thing on all 286 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.840 the radio stations. In the newspaper in Walla. Walla was 287 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:39.320 the number one topic, of course, because it was a 288 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.519 horrifying thing to have happened. He packed up and left town. 289 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:45.679 But when he started in again on his killings, he 290 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.879 made sure that he picked women of high risk for lifestyles, 291 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.519 people that wouldn't be immediately missed. And it's very tragic 292 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:59.039 that most mini serial killers do exactly that they picked 293 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:05.359 on these women that maybe are transit, that maybe can 294 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:07.799 disappear for a few months and knowing things to anything 295 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.039 of it. And sadly, there are some people who think 296 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.960 these aren't real people. And as long as he's killing them, 297 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.839 he's not killing people like us, which is very, very sad. 298 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.160 That's why in the book, I've put a great deal 299 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.759 of emphasis on the life stories of these women so 300 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.839 that there weren't just like victim one, victim two, victim three. 301 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.079 I want the reader to get a sense of who 302 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.640 these women were. That they were daughters, they were mothers, 303 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.920 they were sisters, you know, they had and I did 304 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.359 a lot of research which comes out in the book 305 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.799 that just knows a lot of myths that people have 306 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.319 about these people. Them all being drug addicts, are all 307 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:51.920 having been abused or imborl or no one falls out 308 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:53.599 of the sky and lands on the street like that. 309 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.960 Some of them had excellent jobs before, but things happened 310 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.079 help wise, situation wise with them in the situation where 311 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.799 they had to do what they had to do. 312 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.599 Yeah, and then then you say a young girl sixteen 313 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.920 years old, Jennifer Joseph, has a little taste of some 314 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.799 of some easy money and and actually tells her father 315 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.640 that she enjoys the lifestyle and yeah, and she. 316 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.680 Yeah, right, she didn't take drugs. But she discovered that 317 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:30.640 she really enjoyed performing sex, and she really enjoyed the money, 318 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.720 and she liked the camaraderie of the other people she 319 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.640 was working with, and she got to travel. It's kind 320 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.599 of like, this is how I spent my summer vacation. 321 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.680 And she promised she would be you know, back in 322 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:46.880 school by fall. And you know, at first the police 323 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.480 suspected her boyfriend slash pimp and maybe being responsible for 324 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:54.079 the murder, but he was seriously mostly just thought and 325 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.400 very grieved about her murder. And they took him off 326 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.200 with suspect this. Uh, you know, he made it than 327 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.680 her business manager, but he was very within that framework, 328 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.319 very kind and compassionate guy who actually cared about her 329 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.559 a great deal. But yeah, she was of an anomaly. 330 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.880 You know, this is what she wanted to do for fun, 331 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.599 and because of the fact that she was Asian, she 332 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.319 was able to make more money. Say, they were more 333 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:23.400 jealous of her because for some reason, the young Asian 334 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.839 girls are very very popular. 335 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.680 Sure, now, tell us about the situation in Spokane. We 336 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.240 talked a little bit about Eastbrague. So tell us a 337 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:38.519 little bit more about where this is in terms of 338 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.039 geographically in the city, and then also tell us about 339 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.880 when do police first link that there must be a 340 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.960 serial killer or link these murders and say they officially 341 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.319 that there's a serial killer, And when does this task 342 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.680 force get under way and who does it comprise. 343 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:02.720 Well, when Jennifer Joseph was found, there was another young 344 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.079 lady found the exact same day or the exact same weekend, 345 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.680 the sirn Anders I believe her name was. It started 346 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.680 to become pretty obvious there was something going on, and 347 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:17.640 they started finding the bodies would be displayed, dumped, you 348 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.400 know where people can find them. Yeah, you know a 349 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.160 lot of killers do that. They'd like to show off, 350 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.640 and there was no exception. Now, the problem that police 351 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:31.079 departments face when you have a serial killer isn't just 352 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:36.400 catching him. It's having the manpower, the resources, and the money. 353 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.960 It is very expensive to hunt for a serial killer. 354 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.119 And here you've got Spokane, Washington, which is not a 355 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:50.039 huge city biding special the imagination without a huge pleasure 356 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.759 for this sort of thing. They put together a task 357 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.200 force comprised of the city, the county, and the Washington 358 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:02.200 State Patrol. And of course there politics, you know, there's 359 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.920 anytime you've got different agencies working together, and who's picking 360 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.640 up a part of the budget, who reports to whom, 361 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.000 that sort of thing. But these guys were very dedicated 362 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.759 and they did something that was so smart, right, And 363 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:17.559 people could say, maybe there's a lot of things wrong, 364 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:21.960 but they decided was incredibly smart. They realized that the 365 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.640 best way to have to catch these guys they would 366 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.359 need the help and the cooperation of the prostitutes and 367 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.519 drug dealers on the street. Well, as you can imagine, prostitutes, 368 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.400 drug dealers about the last people who want to talk 369 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.839 to a policeman, right, So they had to go out 370 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.200 and make contact with these people and say, listen, we 371 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.319 don't care what you're selling, we don't care what you're doing. 372 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:49.920 None of that matter is compared to murder, and we're 373 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.240 not using this as an excuse to get information about 374 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.720 the debustulator. What we're asking for is for you to 375 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.000 help us catch this guy before more of you were murdered. 376 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.279 And they were able to establish bonds of trust with 377 00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.640 this subculture. There was definitely a league one criminals, but 378 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.400 the people knew they weren't going to get popped. They 379 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.119 weren't going to get busted, they weren't going to get 380 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.079 you know, taken for a ride. They were just going 381 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:19.119 to help catch this guy. And he was also you know. 382 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.640 Judy was boring. Hello. 383 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.720 Then Judy discovered chumpa casino dot com. 384 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.559 It's my little escape. Now Judy is the life of 385 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:29.160 the party. Oh baby, mama is bringing home the bacon. 386 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.200 WHOA, take it easy, Judy. The Jumba life is for everybody. 387 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:36.880 So go to chumpacasino dot com and play. Over one 388 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.079 hundred casino style games joined today and play for free 389 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:44.119 for your chance to redeem some serious prices. Jump jump 390 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.119 a casino dot com nover necessary. We're promitted by Luny 391 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.480 team plus terms condition of blaze. What's every details? 392 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:55.960 Okay, round two? Name something that's not boring, laundry, a 393 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.559 book club, computer solitaire. 394 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:03.480 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for chumbuck Casino. 395 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:05.720 Chum. 396 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:08.640 That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 397 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:10.839 style games joined today and the play for free for 398 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.960 your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum chumbucasino dot 399 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:18.880 com number said the eighty plus or condition of planting 400 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.200 every bring people. 401 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.200