1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,839 Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,000 an idea. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,519 Speaker 2: The population of atheists in this country is going through the. 4 00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:19,039 Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,160 tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because. 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,839 Speaker 2: I put my hand on a book and made a. 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,839 Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world. 8 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:32,039 Speaker 3: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness. 9 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:34,719 Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way. 10 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:52,759 Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. 12 00:00:56,359 --> 00:00:59,159 Speaker 3: Given that everybody's talking about this story, it was too 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,159 good and oppertunity to pass up, so I wanted to 14 00:01:02,159 --> 00:01:08,000 spend about twenty minutes on the drone sightings. There is 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,879 video of this conversation. That link is in the description 16 00:01:12,079 --> 00:01:18,400 box of this podcast. We've all been talking about this 17 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,200 flurry of reports around New Jersey and surrounding states. People 18 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:27,480 are reporting lights in the sky, suspicious drones are flying 19 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:33,439 over homes and businesses, communities, government offices. What's going on? 20 00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:36,480 Is this some kind of conspiracy? And it's not just 21 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:41,480 the conspiracy theorists. Everyday people walking around coming up with 22 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:45,200 some sort of a paranoid speculation about what's happening. The 23 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,519 politicians have jumped on board. I noticed that the mayor 24 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,799 of Montvale, New Jersey, he said he saw some drones 25 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,319 that were flying in sync with each other and he 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,159 found it very alarming privacy and security concern. Our paramount 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,959 New York Senator Chuck Schumer came forward and he suggested 28 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:09,520 using high tech drone hunters to get to the bottom 29 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,080 of all of this, And of course Donald Trump had 30 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,039 to get a few words in about I mean it, 31 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 really it was a dig at the current administration about 32 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:21,199 this whole drone debacle. 33 00:02:21,719 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: And I think they'd be better of saying what it is. 34 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,879 Our military knows and our president knows, and for some 35 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,800 reason they want to keep people in suspense. 36 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: On top of that, we've got mental health experts saying 37 00:02:33,439 --> 00:02:36,639 this is just another mass panic, which is something that 38 00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:41,039 human beings love to do. Right. Brian Dunning, my special guest. 39 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,039 You are the producer of a documentary called The UFO 40 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:48,639 Movie They Don't Want You to See. You're also well 41 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,639 known as host of the Skeptoid podcasted. You've written a 42 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:58,159 book called Conspiracies Declassified. Do you get into like UFOs 43 00:02:58,199 --> 00:02:59,280 in that book. 44 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: Not so much that one we do like the nine 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,759 to eleven conspiracy. The book came out just as the 46 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:11,479 whole UAP thing and the congressional hearings were just getting started, 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,319 So it wasn't the pop culture phenomenon yet that it 48 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:14,919 is now. 49 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: The Department of Defense thing right where everybody was like 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,680 their declassifying video footage and now the truth shall be known, 51 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:25,719 and the truth was what nothing? 52 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's just been this relatively small group of 53 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:37,520 really obsessed, lifelong UFO believers and professionals and authors who 54 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,080 have been incredibly successful at getting the media to sort 55 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,639 of promote their narrative that UFOs are some sort of 56 00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:50,360 interdimensional spiritual beings and it's all wrapped in with life 57 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:53,560 after death, and it's very strange beliefs that these people have, 58 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:56,840 but they've been very successful getting congress people on board 59 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,919 and getting these hearings to be run over and over again. 60 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:03,759 It's fascinating how much it's permeated pop culture in just 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:04,400 a few years. 62 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: This is just another iteration of that. I mean, I've 63 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:13,000 seen that the footage I see lights points in the sky. 64 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:15,639 These are the same point in the sky that were 65 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,160 there six months ago, right. 66 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's the way the social contagion works is 67 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,120 when you know, you can see ordinary things all day long. 68 00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:28,079 You live near LaGuardia Airport, you see planes coming in 69 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,920 all day long, and so you don't pay attention to them. 70 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:33,800 And then suddenly when you hear that everyone is seeing, Hey, 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,199 there's drones over LaGuardia. Then you do look and you 72 00:04:36,199 --> 00:04:38,519 do pay attention. You say, oh, there's like a whole long, 73 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,759 of long line of lights appearing to be in formation. Well, yeah, 74 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,519 that's the way that airplanes approach an airport. And suddenly 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,439 you have this social contagion. Everyone hears it and suddenly 76 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,720 they attribute everything they see to this new phenomenon. 77 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'll play Devil's advocate. Why now, I 78 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,439 mean someone seeing something? Are there maybe pranksters who were 79 00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:04,519 throwing some extra drones up there to try to stir 80 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:06,120 the pots and get it? 81 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,079 Speaker 2: Not necessarily, possibly, but not necessarily. All it takes is 82 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:14,360 for one person to misinterpret anything, whether they correctly interpreted 83 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,240 a real drone. I mean there's you know, the toy 84 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:21,079 Dji drones are everywhere, so it's entirely possible, or it 85 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,959 could have just been someone seen an airplane. Just about 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,839 two weeks ago, I was on some Japanese TV show 87 00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:31,399 that had a video somebody took very obviously of an 88 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:34,040 airplane on its final approach. You could see all of 89 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:38,279 its navigation lights and everything. And this had gone viral 90 00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:40,759 in Japan that everyone was thinking this was some kind 91 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,759 of a UFO, and I had to go on and explain, no, 92 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,480 look here, we can tell it's an airplane because of this, this, this, 93 00:05:46,519 --> 00:05:49,800 and this, so it doesn't have to be a drone 94 00:05:49,879 --> 00:05:52,800 or anything unusual to get one of these rages started. 95 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:55,879 That's what happened in Japan. That's what's happening right now 96 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:56,959 in New Jersey. 97 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: There is one photograph and I was looking really closely 98 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:07,000 at it and I'm thinking this obviously helicopter. Everybody screaming drowned. 99 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,079 I think the caption on the news photo said suspected 100 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,399 drone unidentified flying object, and I'm looking at it, going, 101 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,639 that's a chopper. It's a freaking helicopter. 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: Who suspects that? One question the Japanese producer, who was 103 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:24,279 very much a believer that this was something mysterious. One 104 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,720 question he asked me was, how did you come to 105 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,439 the conclusion that it was an airplane. It's like, that's 106 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,120 the starting assumption. That's not the conclusion you eventually reach 107 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,160 when you see an airplane doing a normal airplane thing, 108 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,959 in a normal airplane approach pattern. It's an airplane. There's 109 00:06:42,079 --> 00:06:45,040 no reason to think otherwise. And he couldn't get around. 110 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,879 Why didn't you first assume that this was an alien 111 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,759 spaceship or something else extraordinary. It's just this backwards thinking 112 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,000 process is like that. 113 00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:56,319 Speaker 3: Fox Mulder poster that says, I want to believe did 114 00:06:56,399 --> 00:06:59,199 you share it or maybe I tagged you in it? 115 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:03,360 It was as a drone identification poster and it showed 116 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,519 every known aircraft, everything from a seven thirty seven, you know, 117 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,720 to a single engine Sesna and it just is drone drone. 118 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:11,560 Have you seen that thing? 119 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? I did, like labeled Aircraft Identification Guide drone drun. 120 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,319 Speaker 3: Okay, well, you know I've played the Trump clip about 121 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:24,759 him saying, well, this current administration has been awfully slow 122 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,839 in saying something about this, you know, So the implication 123 00:07:29,079 --> 00:07:32,879 is they've dropped the ball. They're either incompetent or they're 124 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,959 hiding something. How would you respond to that? 125 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:41,399 Speaker 2: It's very difficult to respond to just baseless conspiracy theories. 126 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:45,120 There's simply no evidence of that. First, we know there's 127 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,800 nothing extraordinary. Well, we don't know there's nothing extraordinary. We 128 00:07:47,839 --> 00:07:51,040 have no evidence that there is anything extraordinary, So there's 129 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,560 nothing for anyone to be covering up. But I mean, 130 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:58,519 Roseanne Barr is saying this is part of a project Bluebeam. 131 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:04,040 Have you heard about this Project blue Bean? This is 132 00:08:04,079 --> 00:08:07,000 a new thing that some of the conspiracy crowd is. 133 00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:11,720 They believe that the government is flying drones over us 134 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,160 to acclimate us to the idea of having drones everywhere 135 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,920 so that we'll be softened up when they have their 136 00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:23,519 final solution, when the Deep State rounds us all into 137 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,160 concentration camps for orderly extermination, or it's just the most 138 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:28,839 bizarre thing. 139 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:30,959 Speaker 3: I knew the Deep State was going to play into 140 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,159 this sentier later. 141 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,159 Speaker 2: And then Joe Rogan just I guess I just saw 142 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,159 this on Newsweek this morning. I didn't see it or anything, 143 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:39,200 but Joe Rogan apparently is suggesting the same thing that 144 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,639 these are government deployed drones to acclimate us to you know, 145 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,000 whatever the final solution is going to be, Biden, the 146 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:51,320 deep State's final solution for Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg 147 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,279 are going to round us into extermination camps. 148 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: Joe Rogan once a moon landing deniers, so he has 149 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,240 a long history of being very late to the Marjorie 150 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:04,320 Taylor Green, of course, she had turned this into a 151 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,679 referendum on freedom. She's like, well, you're not gonna, you know, 152 00:09:07,919 --> 00:09:10,080 cause me to shelter in place, as if all of 153 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,919 a sudden the government's going to command us to run 154 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:15,559 into our houses under our roofs or something and put 155 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,320 tinfoil hands on it. But she's like, she's threatening to 156 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,759 point guns in the air. Brian and other people are 157 00:09:22,799 --> 00:09:23,600 echoing that. 158 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,879 Speaker 2: Holy yeh, Nike. The real danger is that there are 159 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:29,879 congress people and everyone else demanding that the National Guard 160 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:33,000 be sent out and start actively trying to shoot down 161 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:38,240 these airplanes. And there's been a number of reports, I 162 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,799 don't know if any of them are confirmed, that residents 163 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,840 are shooting at airplanes because they think they're drones because 164 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:47,879 of this whole nonsense going on. And then whenever they 165 00:09:47,879 --> 00:09:50,039 do produce a picture of the drone they're shooting at, 166 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,320 it's very obviously an airplane. So this is I mean, 167 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:55,960 there's definitely a dark serious side to this. 168 00:09:56,519 --> 00:10:00,759 Speaker 3: There are guides that show the light can figures on 169 00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:04,320 various aircraft, what the lights are, what they do, what 170 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:09,120 their function is, so that people who were interested in 171 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,440 what they were looking at, beyond the conspiracies, the paranoia, 172 00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:16,039 the suspicions, the panic, could actually say, oh, look those 173 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,399 are landing lights, or those are navigation lights or those 174 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,919 you know, there is a method to this that we 175 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,039 can track down. Now we've got people pointing laser pointers 176 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:29,559 at planes. What's that about, Brian? 177 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:35,639 Speaker 2: I that's you know, that's always been a problem. Usually 178 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:38,159 fortunately it's usually just a little red laser pointers that 179 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,120 don't do a lot of damage. But you know that 180 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,279 there are these green lasers that you can get. My 181 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:45,600 daughter is an astronomer and she gives star talks, and 182 00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:48,879 she's got this green laser that is very dangerous. 183 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: And so the rule is how Brian and forgiving the interruption. 184 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,919 But when you say it can do some damage, what 185 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,679 are you talking about? 186 00:10:56,039 --> 00:10:59,159 Speaker 2: It can blind you the red a red laser pointer. 187 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,320 In fact, anything sold as a laser pointer is low 188 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:06,840 enough wattage, low enough power that it wouldn't blind you 189 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,639 unless you know you stuck it straight in your eye 190 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,519 for a moment, but you can shine it around at 191 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,440 people in an auditorium and it's you're not going to 192 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,679 blind anyone with that. But these green lasers that are 193 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,480 as much as one hundred times the wattage can be 194 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,440 very very dangerous, and if you shine that in a 195 00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:24,039 plane and it got into a pilot's eye, he could 196 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,639 be immediately blinded. So the rule with the green laser 197 00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:30,559 pointer that she has is nobody ever touches it except her, 198 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,720 no exceptions period, not her professor, nobody else. And that's 199 00:11:34,759 --> 00:11:36,759 the kind of safety protocol you have to have around 200 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,960 these very dangerous lasers. But you can buy them on 201 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,200 the internet, so they're out there. So that's another thing 202 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,679 that we could have a very serious problem with. It 203 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,440 doesn't have to be a pilot. If you're shooting it 204 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:49,320 at an airline or going by you know, you got 205 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,279 one hundred windows down the side, it could blind any 206 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:51,960 of the passengers. 207 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: Are we just stupid? I mean, are we just sheet Brian? 208 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,240 You know? I mean, I hate you's word like stupid, 209 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,440 but I just feel like it. People in groups just 210 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,200 do stupid shit all the time. It doesn't All we 211 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,200 need is a bright shiny object to distract us and 212 00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:12,039 send us off into some sort of a frothing panic. 213 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,039 I mean, have you gotten into the psychology of any 214 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:16,720 of this stuff? 215 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,519 Speaker 2: Oh a lot. I mean every little urban legend or 216 00:12:20,519 --> 00:12:22,320 whatever it is that I'm talking about on my show. 217 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,080 That's always the most fascinating component is how and why 218 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,720 did this belief come to be a thing? And why 219 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,879 do people believe that? You know, they say, as you note, 220 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:36,639 a person is smart. People are stupid. And it's not 221 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,799 that anyone's stupid. They're human, and we all have You 222 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,879 and I we both have the same fallibilities that the 223 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:48,200 craziest Marjorie Taylor Greens are falling susceptible to. And it's 224 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,279 that our brains try to misinterpret things in the way 225 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,320 that makes sense to them and what they expect to 226 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,159 see and what they want to see. And that's just 227 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,480 part of being human. And the more experienced you are 228 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,480 at understanding that, I think, the better tools you have 229 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,080 to learn to separate when your brain is doing the 230 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,840 wrong thing. But I certainly find myself being wrong about 231 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:14,559 things all the time. So it's hard to fault other 232 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,679 people for doing the same thing, you know, particularly when 233 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,279 you've got this. It's I don't want to get political here, 234 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:26,320 I seriously don't, but go ahead. All of the congress 235 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,360 people that I've heard calling for these to be shot 236 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:32,240 down have been Republicans. Why is that? I don't know 237 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,360 it is there actually, I mean, they're no stupider than 238 00:13:36,519 --> 00:13:39,519 Democratic congress people. I think that's, you know, a requirement 239 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,639 to be in Congress at all. It's I think it's 240 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,320 just that some of them actually have a narrative that 241 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,759 the Biden administration is not doing anything about this threat. 242 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,679 I think they're just using it as a little bit 243 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,759 of a little bit of political ammunition here to make 244 00:13:53,879 --> 00:13:54,759 Biden look bad. 245 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: Sometimes I wonder, though, if we're so easily distracted, right, 246 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,600 So if they over here pursuing the bright shiny object 247 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,399 and they can get away with shenanigans over there, that's 248 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,960 a whole other conspiracy theory. 249 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: Oh, they get away with shenanigans regardless of where anyone's looking. 250 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: I guess that's true. I'm familiar with things like the 251 00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:18,159 Blooney detection kit. But just in a nutshell, if people 252 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:20,080 get into this and they start to freak out, and 253 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,399 the headlines make them worry, and they think, what are 254 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,799 these lights in the sky. Is there some things there 255 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:28,360 like a toolkit for people to sort of bs proof 256 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,639 themselves in this weird age of misinformation. 257 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've done a lot of episodes about that, 258 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:38,360 and people have written about it in books and other 259 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,639 podcasts have all given the same kind of sets of things. 260 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:45,080 Here's the logical fallacies and the cognitive biases you can 261 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,840 look for. But I don't know how useful that isn't 262 00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:50,720 in the real world in the middle of your day, 263 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:53,200 I think it's probably better to just go on one 264 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,159 of the more reliable fact checking websites. There's a new 265 00:14:57,159 --> 00:15:00,960 one I like a lot called verify This. There's Snopes, 266 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,639 BBC has one. There's a whole list of these that 267 00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:09,240 have been found to be unbiased and pretty much fruity 268 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,200 darn good sources to go to. And when you go 269 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,240 somewhere like the drone thing, you can quickly find out that, no, 270 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,320 there's no evidence that there's any drones, and yes, it's 271 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,080 true that this congress person or that congress person called 272 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,240 for these evident commercial airlines to be shot down. So 273 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:29,159 there are ways that people kind of can kind of 274 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,000 quickly find out what's really going on. That do fit 275 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:35,919 into the normal lives of modern humans, and that's not 276 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,559 so much going through a checklist of logical fallacies and 277 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,720 cognitive biases. I think it's more useful just to go 278 00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:44,639 to one of these websites really quick and just check 279 00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:44,960 it out. 280 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: You know, all these denials sound like someone who is 281 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,960 in on the cover up? Brian, Are you sound like 282 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000 someone who's in on the conspiracy? The more you debunk it, 283 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,080 the more it must be true. 284 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: If I had a nickel for every time I got 285 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:05,159 called there's a The UFO movie is on YouTube, movies 286 00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:08,519 and TVs so people can make comments on it, and 287 00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:12,200 it's so says oh my god. Although it's like eighty 288 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,480 percent thumbs up and twenty percent thumbs down, the comments 289 00:16:16,679 --> 00:16:21,480 are ninety nine percent negative. The people who really this 290 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:23,879 gut under their crop are the ones who are really 291 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,960 upset enough to leave a comment, and almost all of 292 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,240 them are saying, obviously, the CIA paid this guy to 293 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:31,600 make this movie. 294 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: Man, I hope you're getting paid for all of this 295 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:38,279 sort of cleandestine work, all these yops. 296 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,559 Speaker 2: Having a nickel for every one of those comments would 297 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,519 be more than the CIA ever could have paid. 298 00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: It's a lose lose because if it's true, it's true, 299 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,559 and if you debunk it, it's still true. It's maddening. 300 00:16:50,559 --> 00:16:53,360 And of course we've seen this far beyond the drone conspiracies, 301 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,559 but the deep state. You mentioned the QAnon stuff on 302 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:59,639 dear religions. You know, it's the more they're debunked, the 303 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:02,360 more you are simply in league with the enemy. It 304 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,079 is frustrating, but it's tiresome. Yet just to put a 305 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,039 punctuation mark on it, no reason to freak out. There 306 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,480 is nothing there, There is no there. There is that 307 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:14,559 what you're saying, Brian. 308 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not just me. The Homeland Security and 309 00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:26,319 FBI put out a joint statement that says, there's one 310 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,000 sentence of it, one concluding sentence. Upon review of available imagery, 311 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,920 it appears that many of the reported sightings are actually 312 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,240 manned aircraft operating lawfully. There are no reported or confirmed 313 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:44,240 drone sightings in any restricted airspace. So I mean it's official. 314 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,359 You've got it from all the people who analyze these 315 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,319 things professionally for a living online, people like you and 316 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,640 I and many others. And you've got it from Homeland 317 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,559 Security and the FBI. And if you want to stick 318 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:01,240 to the position that, hey, everyone is lying to me 319 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,480 that I don't know that there's there's much else that 320 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,640 we can do for you. 321 00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:07,799 Speaker 3: And I have a confession before I let you go. 322 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:12,200 I mean this is probably if I had a drone, 323 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,720 I would be tempted to throw some extra Christmas lights 324 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,960 on it and stick like an alien head on the top, 325 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:21,279 you know, with lowing eyes, and literally just flight around 326 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:25,480 the neighborhood, just because I know how easily led people are, 327 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,359 and I would amuse myself with that. So I do 328 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,119 have to wonder if there might be one or two 329 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,480 people out theres who are doing the same, But maybe I. 330 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: Can guarantee there are. Now this has been this has 331 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,359 been so gone, so big, and it's so easy because 332 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,799 so many people have these little commercial drones you can 333 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,440 just buy. You know, I've got one. I could go 334 00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,440 do that myself. In fact, maybe I will. I don't 335 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,799 know what the As far as I know, there's nothing 336 00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:52,880 illegal about hanging lights on your drone, as long as 337 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,359 we follow all the other rules, which I don't now. 338 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,039 Speaker 3: In my brain I'm already doing like weight ratios And 339 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,440 how much would it be able to care and how 340 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,599 much does an alien headway at all those other things. Brian, 341 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,359 You're awesome. I'm going to link to your UFO documentary 342 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,240 in the comments because it is relevant here, but I 343 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,559 wanted to check in quickly and just make sure that 344 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,279 we weren't being invaded by aliens, surveilled by the government, 345 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:17,440 or it wasn't the end of the world. So you're 346 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,880 saying you think we're okay. 347 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 2: I think you're okay for now. But do keep that 348 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,880 tinfoil handy in case you need it. 349 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 3: Hian Dunning, thanks for talking to me. 350 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. 351 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,559 Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a 352 00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:34,240 complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and 353 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,920 t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist 354 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,640 pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events 355 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:48,720 and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.