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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows, Tikos, I am Dan Valley, coming

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at you with the one, the only, the certified pantabulus.

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Mister Grant Hughes, it's award season again. It's really always

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a ward season, but this is our halfway mark check in.

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We committed to doing it for installments this year. I

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still think we're gonna end up doing it in three.

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But given the degree of difficulty I found doing this

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a second time this year, well third if you count preseason,

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we might need a third one just to kind of

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get our bearings about us before our final picks, but

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before we dive in and talk about criteria problem areas

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in the actual awards themselves. Mister Hughes, how the heck

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are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling conflicted. This was really hard. We talked about

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it before we started recording, and it's my fault, as

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you said, because I suggested we do this again at

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the arbitrary sort of arbitrary midseason point. Some teams have

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played forty one games. Clock's ticket. It can't be mid

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season if we wait another week. So this had to happen.

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Like it's good that it's hard, I think, just because

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we'll have ample room for discussion and like, how do

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we how do you justify yourself?

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Speaker 1: Sir?

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Speaker 2: I feel like that'll be said pretty I.

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Speaker 1: I think I would love these I still do love

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these exercises, and I love talking to you about it.

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But stuff that can be controversial when we're not meaning

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it to be controversial, it's I like having the talk.

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The research can be the the feeling is tedious because

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I'm so worried about pissing people off. But the discussion

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would be more fun if I knew that this one

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wasn't gonna invariably lead us to be like, well, hey,

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this is why Kevin Durant sucks. Basically sure too, people

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were gonna interpret anything we say that way like, oh

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you left freaking I don't know, like Mamu off the

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All Defense team, even though that.

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Speaker 2: Would be like made mine, I don't know what your

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problem is.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I love these discussions, but I hate

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sometimes my approach to them is just like I don't

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want to anger anyone, but we're invariably people are gonna disagree,

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and not all of them are going to be civil

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or just like they're just gonna dismiss it as like

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we're being assholes or we're just wrong, and you know,

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I hate those types of responses.

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Speaker 2: I think you should embrace the truth that there's no

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way for you to do this without getting that reaction

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like there's not a perfect ballot that doesn't have that

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doesn't incurund.

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Speaker 1: And then you get the people who are like, well

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you said this last time, we're oh, how about this,

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You didn't have him on your team first time, And

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it's well, do you want me to be stubborn if

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I have more information or do you want me to

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be flexible based off what we've seen and research? So

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I hate that element of it too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to stop talking to people. I think

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maybe that's the issue.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I gotta stop checking the comments or responding

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yes the good comments I did before we dig in,

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dig in, and we'll talk about any approach we need

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to as we get to the individual awards. Just some

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notable players who cannot be selected for most of these

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awards now. As a reminder, all Rookie, six Man of

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the Year and Rookie of the Year are not encumbered

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by that sixty five game threshold, but notable ineligible players

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right now Franz Wagner Pallo, Benkaro, Lukanacic, Joel embiid Chet Holmgren, Kawhi, Leonard,

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Isaiah Hart and Stein just in case anyone wanted him

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for all defense. And I believe John Morant is there

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or about to be there as we're recording this, closing

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in on ineligibility, and I find this funny. I don't

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think he would have made it. Jimmy Butler cannot miss

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another game this season and otherwise he will be ineligible.

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LaMelo Ball has missed eleven games, Kyrie has missed ten,

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Kevin Durant has missed eleven, Derek Lively's missed eleven, but

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we just got worried he's gonna be out two to

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three months more. So he just you know, you could

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pick him now, but he can't be picked. Tarry Easton

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fifteen games missed, and Jalen Suggs eleven games missed. Here's

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an interesting one, and I thought about it. For most

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improved player, I can't quite get there yet. Trey Murphy's

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at sixteen games missed.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: So if he sticks there or if he only misses

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another game the rest of the way, you know, I

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was struggling with most improved players, so I may not

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hesitate to just fire at will there if he missed

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the criteria this time. Next time we record.

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Speaker 2: It's a good way to say, like, hey, I was

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paying attention, like I knew Trey Murphy was good, but

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that I needed to like throw him a bone now

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before he becomes ineligible.

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Speaker 1: I honestly thought he was already ineligible, right.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like that was a huge storyline, him missing

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the start of the season, and that surprises Yeah, it

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surprises me.

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Speaker 1: That it felt like a decade and that must be

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what it is. It's like, we missed sixteen games, but

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it felt like.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but they somehow lost twenty four of those

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sixteen games. It was weird. I don't know how they

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managed to lose that many.

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Speaker 1: Look, they're on a roll right now that has store comeback.

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Looky playoff? Should we talk about Pelvis? Let's get Let's

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get to the awards. Let's start with the least controversial

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award out there, the MVP race. For anyone watching our YouTube,

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our ballots are up on screen. We go five deep

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for MVP and then three deep for every other singular award,

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just because that's how the ballot actually works. Do you

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want to start artists off here?

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Speaker 2: Grant? Sure, Yeah, so I have. I mean, we're essentially

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in lockstep well for the first two, which frankly is

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like where we could just have ninety nine percent of

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this discussion.

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Speaker 1: Can you start the back of the ballot, because we're

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it's a two man race right now. If I had

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to pick, maybe, I mean my third guy would probably

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be the person that I think could party crash.

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Speaker 2: It a little bit, but I don't think the party

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is getting crashed, so any my fifth place MVP is

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Jalen Brunson, Yannis at four, Tatum at three, sg A two,

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Jokic one, and uh the well I have. We haven't

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done all NBA yet. My fifth All NBA spot is

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not Jalen Brunson. It's gonna be Wemby a little different,

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but I don't have a great justification for it other

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than hey, our MVP ballots are different, so that's more interesting.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to drum up controversy.

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Speaker 2: Right yeah, uh so what what do you have?

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Speaker 1: So my ballot is I have Wemby at number five,

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Tatum at four, Yannis at three, Shay at two, and

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you'll won the Wemby stuff for me, and this will

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apply to all NBA. I know the Spurs of it

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a little bit of a rut patch, but according to

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b Ball Index and not catch all metrics aren't everything,

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but the average teammate on the Spurs ranks him the

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twenty seven percent tile of Lebron. And yet when Wemby's

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on the court, the Spurs net rating is still in

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the seventieth percent tile. And now we're entering territories like,

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all right, that's the Timberwolves with Anthony Edwards, and I

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think we can all agree that the Timberwolves supporting cast

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in a vacuum has more talent than the Spurs. And

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so for him to do that lifting the becoming a

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high volume, borderline dead eye three point shooter. This there

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is no ceiling. The passing has gotten, but there is

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no ceiling for him. So that was became easier than

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I thought it was gonna be to where I'm kind

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of thinking him, Oh, what would it take for him

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to use the Tatum and Giannis? I think Giannis is

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ahead of Tatum right now. We've seen some slides with Boston,

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but Giannis's defense look after the first I don't know

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ten to fourteen games that he played, maybe it wasn't great.

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I actually thought about him for all defense this time around,

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where I think we mentioned the first time, Oh, he

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wasn't gonna make that. So that was the differentiator for me.

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John is his numbers are more video game like, which

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is the the lift he gives you on defense is

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way heavier. And then Tatum, I still think he just

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remains underappreciated as a total offensive package, and so he's

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an easy top five inclusion for me.

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Speaker 2: Just to just to sort of touch on the me

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having Brunson, you having Wemby. Wemby was like basically on

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my that was one of well the toughest decisions at

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the top to me, But that one was tricky. I

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think I was just ultimately swayed by watching the fair

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amount of Nicks lately, and it's just like everything the

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Knicks do is so hard and it all depends on

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Brunson shouldering this load that's just like unfathomable, like nothing

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works without him. Maybe I'm catching the wrong games, but

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some of the numbers bear that out too. Just hit

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like his lift is so heavy, and you could argue

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that Wemby's based on the numbers you sided too. It's

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like really like low key heavy too, and we just

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don't it doesn't look the same as Brunson, who's getting

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doubled and just like held off the constantly and is

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just like working his ass off. So I was a

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little bit swayed by that. I have no issue with

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with with Wenby beating him out for that.

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Speaker 1: Can I Actually I want to ask you a question.

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I think there are a lot of people that would

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say Carl Anthony Towns has been more valuable to the

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Knicks than Jalen Brunson. And what do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: I think if you're just purely looking at the like

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scoring efficiency, and you know, Kat's rebounding is incredible in

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the stretch, like Cat's great, He's gonna be on both

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of our all NBA teams somewhere down the line. But

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I just think that Brunson, like take Cat off, and yeah,

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you lose a huge element of the Knicks, you know,

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offensive identity, but Brunson sort of is the offense. It's

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like the downgrade from Brunson to anyone else you put

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out there, if it's campaign or you have mckel bridges

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handle the ball, it's just like Brunson sort of is

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the Knicks like to an extent that, like, you know,

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it's hard to think of another player who so singularly

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like holds the fate of his team in his hands

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in a way that I think is sort of under

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scored or emphasized by the fact that the Knicks are

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really good and the Spurs aren't. And so that's like

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a little bit of a distinction. Again, I'm not knocking

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Wimby at all. I just think the whole plan falls

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apart without Brunson, and I don't feel like that's true

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of Kat, especially since like Cat's a bad defender at

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the most important defensive position, Brunson's a bad defender at one.

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That's like, well, we can deal with that.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the right call. And I would say

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that what Towns is doing is incredible and he's unlocked

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an element of the Knicks offense and it's allowed them

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to navigate Jalen Brunson's slumps and Jalen Brunson's stints on

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the bench better than they have since Sjalen Brunson has

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been there. But there's a difference between doing that and

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just being the guy. I'm not just saying every night,

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but against the best lineups, like every team's best players,

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and as you laid it out at the top, and

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so I think, if anything, it's more of a testament

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to what Towns is doing this year. But I really

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do think that I don't want to say it's not close.

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I would listen to debates for it, and I've seen

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some compelling cases written. But I think that in terms

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of value, you want to talk about individual season and numbers,

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like you said, sure, in terms of value, I think

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that Jalen Brunson still just has a noticeable edge there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about the one too. Here. I struggled.

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I went with Jokic. I struggled a lot with it.

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Can I try an argument on you that like ultimately

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got me there to put Jokic first over SGA, and

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you tell me you can poke holes in it or

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tell me if you agree or whatever. Go ahead.

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Speaker 1: My only thing is I don't really listen to you

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when you talk, So no, please go ahead. I'm exact, Okay,

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So the Jokic is just just to start with a number.

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The Nuggets are like a one to twenty four offensive

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rating with Yokic on, They're horrendous without him. The Thunder

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are about a one to twenty offensive rating with SGA

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on that's a pretty big difference, but it and it

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favors Jokic, But that's like not the be all end

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all for me, because you can find plenty of catch

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all metrics that just say SGA is having the better season,

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which basically is like been impossible. Only Embiid has really

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like threatened Jokic for the top of a lot of

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catchalls lately in past MVP races.

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Speaker 2: So I thought about it in these terms, I think

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you could call it a wash in terms of like

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scoring efficiency between the two of them, it's close enough.

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I think you have to concede Jokic is the better

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passer because nobody's a better passer than him, obviously a

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better rebounder. It helps to be Jokic's size, and defensively,

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we can agree that SGA is a better defensive guard

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than Jokic is a defensive center. But center is the

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most important defensive position on the floor, and SGA is

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pretty frequently like the fourth or fifth best defender among

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the players he's on the court with. And just again

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like he's not typically like your point of attack guy.

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He's kind of hanging out getting steels. Great steals matter.

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They're not like we go back and forth on how

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overrated or underrated they are. I think he's a very

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good defender, albeit one that's not like challenged lot. Jokic

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is constantly challenged. He fails a fair amount, but like

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a center on defense matters a ton, So ultimately it's

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just like there's not really anything if you consider like

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the value of positional defense that I think SGA has

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like a massive advantage in. And I do think there

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are a couple areas where clearly Jokic is better. But

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having said that, like this was a decision I made

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like today, you know, after thinking about it for a while,

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I don't I'm so open to anyone that's just like

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it's SGA and you can just say that without a

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lot of statistical support, and I'd be like, yeah, I

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could see why you think that. So does any of

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that sway you one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: I already had Jokic, so of course it's it's what

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made the.

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Speaker 2: Decision for you, Then maybe that's the better question.

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Speaker 1: I really just look at it one. It's more of

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a nutshell argument of you but in totality, Nikola Jokic

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has a heavier workload when you combine both ends of

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the floor than Shay Gilch Alexander does. And the fact

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that you can say that even though shea a lot

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of people talked about him as an all defense candidate,

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which I think it's fine. Defensive playmaking is valuable. The

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bigger differentiator for me is the nuggets. They're crescendoing around Yokic,

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like maybe they found something with Let's see what happens

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if Aaron Gordon stops coming off the bench, but they

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could stagger their lineups accordingly, and russ is having a

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renaissance there. We're getting better moments from the youngsters. The

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quality of talent around Nikole Jokic is just worse. And

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I'm not gonna even just talk about net rating swing here.

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It's he has to do more in totality because the

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team around him is worse and I don't want to

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Penali Shay Gilds Alexander having better talent around him. And

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by the way, they're missing I mean, I say, Hardinsein's

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missed a bunch of time, Alex Caruso's missed time. Their

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center rotation has been it's never been fully healthy. And

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then chet holmgrin, of course, no worse than their third

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most important player on this team is gone. I think

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that's a very compelling argument for Shay, as is the

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fact that the Thunder just might win sixty eight seventy

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games at a time when we think the league is

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more valuable than ever. I'm still swayed by like the

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okamis under out scoring opponents by eighteen points per one

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hundred posessions. With Shay on the court, it's fourteen or

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fourteen in change for the Nuggets there was eighteen and

301
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change for the Thunder. The fact that Jogic gets the

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Nuggets with that town around him to that level to

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00:14:12,159 --> 00:14:15,840
where it's within you could say, breathing distance. When we're like, yes,

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it's a bigger number, but when you're looking at the percentiles,

305
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,080
like the fact that he can bring this Nuggets team there,

306
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that still sways me here and it would be different.

307
00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,279
I think if I thought that, I mean, really, I

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find the two most compelling cases I find for Shay.

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00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,600
I guess three is Shay is fucking fantastic. There's one,

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but two. He is so indispensable to a Thunder offense

311
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that has all this talent, you kind of look there

312
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and say, holy crap, Like the fact that they are

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flirting around like top seven in point score per possession

314
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,600
that is because of say, the minutes of out Shay

315
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:50,159
on the court have by and large been an unmitigated

316
00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:53,919
offensive disaster, the closest the thunder of come to anything sustainable,

317
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and it's been in a small sample. Go watch some

318
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,919
of the When I say Hartenstein's healthy, the iHeart and

319
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,559
j Dubman, it's able to figure out things there. It

320
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:04,559
would be different for me if Jokic was just this

321
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total zero on the defensive end. But when you look

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at the defense of rebounding and then you combine that

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with the scoring numbers are comparable this year, and he

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still shoulders a heavier playmaking burden. So I do think

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I'm trying not to discredit Shay here. I do officially believe,

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and I'll be curious to see where we are, like

327
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if the Nuggets continue this track to where, oh, the

328
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,720
talent around Yokic is so much worse, doesn't hold as

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00:15:31,799 --> 00:15:33,759
much weight. Because it doesn't hold as much weight as

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it did at the quarter season mark. I'll say that

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00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,440
right now, there's a chance one of us will pick Shay,

332
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But I do think we've officially entered the territory of

333
00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:44,799
either or. And if you're simplifying this down to the

334
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thunder or better, Shay is the best player on that team.

335
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I think that's fine if you want to go that way,

336
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but like, at least hear out what we're saying when

337
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,000
other people are saying you can disagree. I think this

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00:15:56,039 --> 00:15:59,320
season on the selection, this is not a consensus MVP pick.

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Speaker 2: And I'm totally with you, Like I this could have

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been different today had I come across some other stat

341
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,200
that I didn't see that would you know, tip the scales,

342
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And it might very well be different in the next

343
00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:13,200
time we do this, which is great, Like this is

344
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,200
awesome to have to have two such like how different

345
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,279
these two guys are and we have to try to

346
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compare them to each other. It's not the same as

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like Yokic embiid like that was you know, okay, we

348
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,879
get it, like we can you know, similar position. It's

349
00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:29,000
it's apples to apples in some sense. This is like

350
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:33,120
apples to I don't know, like wrenches or like it's

351
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,080
not it's not even they're so different anyway, that's that's

352
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,039
a good MVP talk.

353
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Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask you because we're making We

354
00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:40,559
should have laid this out at the beginning, but people

355
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who've listened to this before not like we're making our picks.

356
00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:44,200
We're not trying to predict anything here. I want to

357
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,799
ask you, if the season ended right now, though, what

358
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,559
do you think the voting would say.

359
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Speaker 2: SGA would get it? Like it's something like a landslide,

360
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,840
right the betting odds are like he's he's minus something

361
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,559
and he's the only one that like Jokic is not.

362
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: Is and which I don't factor. I try not to

363
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,519
look at Oh Jokic has three in someone else's turn.

364
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,240
I hope. I've never thought that way in the past,

365
00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:07,519
but I'm a total hypocrites, so who knows, but I do.

366
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,920
I do agree with you that I think Shay will

367
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,799
win the award and I'm not gonna up might pick

368
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,559
my as of right now is Yokic. I'm not fighting

369
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:15,720
anybody who votes for Shay.

370
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 2: We have some version of this discussion, or we have

371
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,000
had it since Yokic has you know, been a one

372
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,400
and two time and now three time MVP, Like if

373
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,480
he hadn't won one yet. This is a really different discussion.

374
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:27,799
I think, you know what I mean, if we hadn't

375
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:31,079
gotten used to this, because his numbers are insane except

376
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not for him. So it's just kind of like we

377
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,920
really do take it for granted with him in a way.

378
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,839
I think that does hurt him and hopefully you and

379
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,759
I aren't doing that, which which based on having him first,

380
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:42,039
we're not.

381
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Speaker 1: I mean, look what I was thinking. It was like

382
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,359
the fact that Shae is shooting sixty percent on twos,

383
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:50,200
which is like almost it's a point and a half

384
00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:52,880
higher basically than Yokic when you look at some of

385
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,119
the two. I mean, Jokic takes wild twos as well,

386
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,240
but just you think bigger guy being able to back

387
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,400
like so some of the work that Shay has to

388
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,759
put into his own. This is just it's a I

389
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:03,200
think it's in all as of right now, it seems

390
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:03,960
like an all time.

391
00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 2: Close one two MBP Yeah, I think so too.

392
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: My all NBA teams are up next, and no surprise,

393
00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:12,680
even though there was a difference for me last time,

394
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,079
I have my same My first team is my MVP

395
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,720
ballot yo Ki, Shay, Tatum, Jannis Wenby, so Grant won't

396
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,200
have any questions their second team. I have Brunson, Evan Mobley,

397
00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:28,279
Donovan Mitchell, Steph Curry, Jaron Jackson Junior. My third team

398
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,440
is Anthony Edwards, Anthony Davis, Domas Sabonis, Karl Anthony Towns,

399
00:18:32,519 --> 00:18:36,759
Darius Garland. My toughest cut ended up. We were talking beforehand.

400
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:39,400
It probably ended up being Ky Cunningham for me, but

401
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,400
I did heavily consider Jada, Pascal Siakam, Kevin Durant. I

402
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,359
I'm looking at this. I think most people will be

403
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,759
caught off guard by the Steph Curry of it all.

404
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,240
The Warriors are a really good basketball team with him

405
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,680
on the court still, which is just honestly miraculous. When

406
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,039
you look at the trajectory of their season. The numbers

407
00:18:58,079 --> 00:19:00,599
are still bonkers. Evan Mobley, I actually think is the

408
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,960
most valuable player on the Cavs this year was like

409
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,519
him and Brunson and Mitchell. Mitchell was not easy second

410
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:11,240
team inclusion. The debate between him and Darius Garland rages on.

411
00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:14,559
Jared Jackson Junior has been the Grizzlies best player this year.

412
00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:17,359
The offensive growth continues and he belongs in the DPOI

413
00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:23,400
conversation non wemby division, of course, I before I throw

414
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,720
it to you to see if there's anything that stands

415
00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:27,720
out for you. I really do think that Demntese Bonus

416
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:30,200
is having like one of the most underappreciated seasons in

417
00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:32,680
NBA history. And I say that as someone who didn't

418
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,759
have him on the All Star Game when we did

419
00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:36,799
our picks a couple of weeks ago. If I was

420
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,480
to do it now, I'd probably bounce shanng Gun or

421
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:43,440
someone there. But we're talking twenty one points, shooting forty

422
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,519
eight point four percent from three, which leads the league.

423
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:47,880
Lower volume, but two point four temphs per game is

424
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,720
close to her career high. Basically sixty three percent on

425
00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:55,039
two's leads the league, and rebounds per game, averaging over

426
00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:58,319
six assists per game. The true shooting is the number

427
00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:00,039
that I look at. It's just like Pops sees it

428
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,279
sixty seven to four and was around seventy for a while,

429
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,119
and the numbers when he has played like as the

430
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,640
lone star or with two stars on the court versus

431
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,319
when you mix and match it with the Rosen and

432
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,359
d' aaron Fox, It's really not even close at this point,

433
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,640
and so I find myself when you watch the Kings

434
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:16,759
a lot of the time, and I think you look

435
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,960
at the archetypes, I'd be inclined to say that the

436
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,079
Aaron Fox is the better, more important player, but this season,

437
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,039
I don't know how you look at these numbers and

438
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,480
how you like Sibonis. I also think there's been value

439
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:29,480
in We've had concern we had concerns about the pecking

440
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:31,319
order of the Kings offense, and some of that's coming

441
00:20:31,319 --> 00:20:33,279
to bear out when you look at Kegan Murray even

442
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:35,839
a little bit of maligue Monk. But like Sabonis is

443
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,240
kind of just figuring it out and might have had

444
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,559
like the easiest time adjusting is as everyone and like

445
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:47,079
he is being used like somewhat differently. So he's having

446
00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:50,319
a fantastic year. And I went into this just kind

447
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:52,039
of thinking to myself like I was gonna have to

448
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:53,880
find a way to get him on the third team,

449
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,880
and that ended up with some tough cuts. But I

450
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,400
think he has I'll say this a stronger second team case,

451
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,559
then let's bound him from all NBA entire.

452
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,839
Speaker 2: Oh man, that makes me feel terrible because I I did.

453
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,119
I had similar thoughts where it's like at some point

454
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:11,279
the numbers are just you cannot ignore them, Like I

455
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:13,799
didn't know. I knew the three point volume was up.

456
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:16,119
I knew he was over forty percent, I didn't realize

457
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,319
it was forty eight percent.

458
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,079
Speaker 1: It's just like two and a half at times per

459
00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,559
game though what you're wide wide open.

460
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: It's still like the scouting report is like fire away, please,

461
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,880
because that means you're not doing some elbow hub stuff

462
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,039
or putting guys in the basket underneath. But still like

463
00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:34,319
I don't know, and just the points, rebounds, assists of

464
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,359
it all in the scoring efficiency and like he does

465
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:39,160
now much of this has to do with how bad

466
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,319
the King's backup gigs are, but he grades out real

467
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,880
well in a lot of defensive catchalls that factor in,

468
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,759
like on off stuff. So I still think that's mostly

469
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:50,960
a mirage. I think I think he still is what

470
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,400
he is defensively, which is to say, like kind of

471
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,400
a problem if you're trying to win high level games.

472
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,680
But yeah, I feel really bad. I have him kind

473
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,160
of on my my unofficial fourth team, and that's just

474
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,799
because you know, fortunately, I guess fortunately there's a one

475
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,799
or two third teamers that I have that are probably

476
00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:09,480
going to be ineligible and then I'll be able to

477
00:22:09,559 --> 00:22:12,000
like move him up. Kate is kind of in that

478
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,079
same boat for me. I don't really have any knocks here.

479
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,319
I think one clear difference that that jumps out is

480
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,920
You've got Mitchell's second team and as a second calve there.

481
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:25,079
I also have two calves on the second team. But

482
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:27,599
my by the way, our first teams are the same.

483
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,359
And I explained kind of the logical incongruity of me

484
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,799
having Brunson fifth and MVP and on a second team.

485
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:39,960
But whatever did you struggle? I mean, you said the

486
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,720
Garland Mitchell debate rages on what what landed you on

487
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,680
Mitchell as a second teamer over Garland.

488
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: We kind of went through this when we did the

489
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,440
All Star stuff. Is I think that Darius Garland is

490
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,519
more is well, way more important to driving offense for

491
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:59,000
and better maybe not way better, but better at driving

492
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:01,960
offense for everybody else, and a comparable score at this point,

493
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,839
even though they're used in different ways. But Donovan Mitchell

494
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,759
Darius gron will I think take on tougher assignments on defense.

495
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000
Mitchell's just been better in his defensive role than Garland.

496
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:13,519
And I think the thing that finally sold it for me.

497
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,519
And this would be the case if you know, I

498
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,559
would say that I think mobile is the most valuable calve.

499
00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:19,400
If you want to say Mitchell's the most valuable calve,

500
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:22,920
I think the strongest argument would be when you're on

501
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:25,759
offense and the other team is going to zero win

502
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:28,640
on somebody, it is always going to be Donovan Mitchell

503
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,839
when you have the full cast on the floor.

504
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:35,279
Speaker 2: I actually agree with that. And yet I have Garland's

505
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:39,799
second team and Mitchell third get which I guess says

506
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,799
that I'm looking more at like this season's production as

507
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:46,039
opposed to what I think we both like in your

508
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:48,160
head and your heart know, like Mitchell's the guy right

509
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,440
of Garland and Mitchell, Like Mitchell is the guy that's

510
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,319
going to be taking the biggest shots, that is the

511
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,440
bigger focal point of defensive game planning, like that kind

512
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,839
of thing. I just you know, Garland's been a more

513
00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:01,680
efficient scorer, he's a better facilitator this year, and so

514
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:03,359
like I just had to reward him there. I don't

515
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,359
really have any like knocks or quibbles at all.

516
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,039
Speaker 1: You're making this Steph, because I know you do have

517
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,400
him on a team, but I have him second team,

518
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:14,920
and I think I think some people might think that

519
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:17,400
you're I might be waiting stats too heavily when I

520
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,039
say this, was like, look at what the Warriors offense

521
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,400
is with and without him. But I still think, aside

522
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,599
from Nikola Jokic, I don't know that there's anyone who

523
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,200
can elevate not even just elevate the ceiling, but define

524
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,640
it regardless of the context of who's around him, Like

525
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,119
there's Jokic and then there's Steph Curry. Still for me,

526
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,200
because you just look at the talent around him in

527
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,759
terms of yeah, okay with gravity, no one really there's

528
00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:45,839
very few players that have it. And then if they do,

529
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,599
if you're gonna go with a buddy heel like, well,

530
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,319
how inconsistent are they? And then when you just kind

531
00:24:50,319 --> 00:24:53,720
of look at the second like the surrounding, the playmaking

532
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,880
or just the shot making in general. This is per

533
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,400
b Ball Index, Steph's teammates rank in eight percent tile

534
00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:03,920
of overall shot making ability as just and the fact

535
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,720
that okay, he's on the court, not only a they

536
00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:07,640
winning those minutes, I think they're like a plus. It's

537
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,440
actually dropped it was like a plus eight for the

538
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,279
longest time. But the Warriors are Warriors ing or whatever.

539
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,559
There's still a plus four point four with him on

540
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:16,519
the court with an offense in the eighty like a

541
00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:19,480
one nineteen offense rating, and it's that's the eighty fourth percentile.

542
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,160
I just can't And this isn't even oh and he's old. No,

543
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,440
it's like, look at who is like who is the

544
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,960
most about who's the second best offensive player on the.

545
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 2: Warriors, Jonathan Kaminga and he's not playing.

546
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,839
Speaker 1: You know what, before he got injured, he was having

547
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,359
one of his like moments in streets. That's like the

548
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,759
gap between Steph Curry and the Warrior's second best offensive player.

549
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,640
Where is it larger? Is it? Would you say it's

550
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,839
even yo, kitchen Murray might not even be as large.

551
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: No, I think that's that's a great point. And I

552
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,279
think kind of ironically, as as I'm thinking about it,

553
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960
some of what recommends Steph, which is that the numbers

554
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,000
you're talking about and like, you know, as on an

555
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:02,359
individual basis like hyper efficient, forget like the impact he

556
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,559
has on a just a trash you know, supporting cast.

557
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,640
I think like and so all that's still great, and

558
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,720
the degree of difficulty is off the charts, Like the

559
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,759
way that he's being defended is different than he's ever

560
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,880
been defended before because teams can get away with it,

561
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,720
like they can just sell out beyond the most egregious

562
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:24,079
sellout you've ever seen to try to stop him, and

563
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,759
he still finds crevice's and he still gets up impossible

564
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:29,359
shots and makes enough of him. I think what I'm

565
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,079
focused on is just like how hard it looks for him,

566
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,920
and maybe that's not fair. So I have him on

567
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,359
the third team, and like, I think if I were

568
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,319
to switch anything, having talked about it now, I'd probably

569
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,960
go so I have Anthony Davis as a second teamer,

570
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,599
I might swap Davis and Steph on that logic is

571
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,559
just like he's still great despite it never being harder

572
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,720
from a like tactical standpoint and the fact that he's

573
00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:55,960
as old as he is and is able to hold up.

574
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000
So like, yeah, I'll leave it as it is. But

575
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:00,480
I think that's again, I think there's a great case

576
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,359
for him to be a second teamer. I don't I

577
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,640
don't have an issue at all. So my first team

578
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,160
we're the same. Jokic SGA Tatum, Jannis Wemby second team.

579
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,720
We both also have Brunson Mobley, Jaron Jackson Junior. Jackson

580
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:17,240
Junior was like never had a chance of falling the

581
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:19,400
third team for me, Like he was just I couldn't

582
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,240
put him on first because that that top five guys

583
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,759
are just a different level that he was like just

584
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:28,960
an absolute lock with Brunston and Mobile as a second teamer.

585
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: He is. I have a fun Jaron Jackson Junior stat

586
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,039
he is twelfth and this is all among anyone who's

587
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:36,359
played at least a thousand minutes this year. Twelfth in

588
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,160
points per one hundred points per seventy five possessions above expectation,

589
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,640
which speaks to just the way he's scoring in the

590
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,319
role that he has this year. And look his efficiency

591
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,920
is dipped and I still just like don't care.

592
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: His You watch him play and like the drives are

593
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:55,640
just undenied, like the way that Memphis spaces the floor.

594
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,519
As I think about it more, it almost seems like

595
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,119
this this donkey offense they play that like basically never

596
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,839
screens is almost like built to say, like Jaron Jackson

597
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,240
Junior as a driver is gonna be maybe the second

598
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:10,920
most important facet of our offense, and the most important

599
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,519
when John Moran's not playing, which happens a lot, and

600
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,759
his ability to just get to like six feet and

601
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:21,319
hit weird like floaty push half hook shots at rates

602
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:23,039
that are just that's what you're probably talking about. I

603
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:25,880
hadn't heard the points per seventy expected points per seventy five.

604
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,279
It's like he takes and makes a lot of really

605
00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,599
hard in between shots, and I mean I've seen him

606
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,640
be able to hit like turnaround hooks over either shoulder

607
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,440
this year. I just he's a really good offensive player

608
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,359
and like, by the way, is going to be on

609
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,359
our all our dpo wy ballots very high too, so

610
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,839
easy picks there. I went with Garland over Mitchell. As

611
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:48,039
I said, I got Anthony Davis as a second teamer

612
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:50,720
over stuff, which I feel not great about right now,

613
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:54,359
but whatever small distinction. The rest of my third team,

614
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,680
I do have Mitchell there, I have Anthony Edwards. I

615
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,759
have Kyrie Irving. That's a guy that's gonna fall off

616
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:01,920
and maybe that's how I get Sabonus in there after

617
00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:06,240
Kyrie presumably falls below the game's threshold, and then KAT

618
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,319
was an easy third team or KAT was going to

619
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:10,799
be on one of these no matter what. He just

620
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:13,000
I ran out of spots and he ended up with

621
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:15,680
my I guess technically my last third team spot.

622
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,759
Speaker 1: The you know, Kyrie Irving was another tough cut for me.

623
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:23,000
But the minutes with him and then without Luca went

624
00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:26,079
from kind of peachy Keene to they've started to turn

625
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:28,839
and when part of the theory of his value is that.

626
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,359
And I know he missed time with the back stuff,

627
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,279
but that's also part of this. So I have a

628
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:37,079
question for you about we both had Anthony Edwards third Team.

629
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,599
I've seen him be included everywhere from first team to

630
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,359
not even on the All NBA list, and I know

631
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,200
there's just that variability kicked in. Where are you sort

632
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,400
of at with this season he's having and his overarching value?

633
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: Of course, kind of two controlling thoughts, One which we've

634
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,160
talked about for a lot of the season is like,

635
00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:58,680
it's incredible the type of score that he's become and

636
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:01,839
maybe has had to become for this particular Wolves team.

637
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,359
The three point volume still making well over forty percent,

638
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,160
his shot died at least as a perimeter shooter is hard.

639
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,799
So that's like, that's beyond impressive, and then it's just

640
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:15,359
the offense is what it is. He's the best offensive

641
00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:18,240
player on the team, and the offense isn't good generally speaking,

642
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,359
So like what are we you know? So I guess

643
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,799
the answer would be he was way closer to falling

644
00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:26,880
off the top my third team than he was to

645
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,200
like even sniffing first team, maybe second, I guess, But

646
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:32,480
I think I think I fall more in the camp

647
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,920
of like the bottom line just sort of is what

648
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,119
it is, and he's the best offensive player on a

649
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:40,079
team whose offense isn't very good. That's an oversimplification because

650
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:42,160
it's hard to have a good offense with Rudy Gobert

651
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,240
and Julius Randall ball stopping and Mike Conley, you know,

652
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,279
have the Knights where he just can't play.

653
00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,839
Speaker 1: That it's even above average with Anthony Edwards on the court, right.

654
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,039
Speaker 2: It's hard to know which way that cuts. I think,

655
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:54,440
like in an ideal situation with spacing and where he's

656
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,440
still more of a driver like second or who knows

657
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,880
what we'd be talking about with him, But it's kind

658
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,359
of a you know, we don't have like a control

659
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,240
to the experiment to know what it would look like

660
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,400
if you weren't in these particular circumstances. Do you want

661
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,480
to talk about like a toughest so missions, guys, just

662
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,640
you know, we're maybe you had on a team and

663
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,599
then had to cut or any like real like you know,

664
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,480
trouble spots.

665
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,319
Speaker 1: I want to get out in front of this. And

666
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,720
we both didn't have him, yeah, or either of them.

667
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,759
I guess you could say not having Kevin Durant feels

668
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,680
weird when you look at the numbers and even when

669
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,480
you watch him and he still just hits these stupid

670
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,319
and I will tweet out the clips because I will

671
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:35,160
come away just mesmerized by the shots he's hitting and

672
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,680
the efficiency at which he can hit them. He's been

673
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480
complicit in the Suns is three point to tenth rate

674
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,680
plummeting over the past couple months, and like he wasn't

675
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,480
the one who jacked up his three point volume in

676
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,680
net as some like the other guys did or the

677
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,519
team at large. And the more I watch the Suns,

678
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,880
the more, even on the nights when Devin Booker is

679
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,000
not as efficient, I'm just like, well, Devin Booker is

680
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:58,519
their best player and I can't bring myself to put

681
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:01,519
him on this on one of these teams because he

682
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:03,240
had a rough what like six or eight weeks of

683
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:05,240
the season, which is still pretty big chunk of the

684
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:08,480
season thus far. Why do I feel compelled to put

685
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,559
in Kevin Durant, who has missed time and who I

686
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,920
just think I would need to see numbers on this.

687
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,720
And I know he still draws a ton of double teams,

688
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,079
Like what is the value? Like how many of those? Like, okay,

689
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,039
they might end in some tough buckets being made, but

690
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:23,359
like what is his assist rate on those double teams?

691
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:26,240
What's the turnover rate? And here I am diminishing Kevin

692
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:29,200
Durant's value When the Suns have been as upside down

693
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,000
as they are, they're losing their big three minutes, and

694
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:33,839
so I just kind of rid it off, wrote it

695
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,039
off as that. And also just the more I watch

696
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:39,640
the Suns, you will not convince me with any numbers

697
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,000
right now that Kevin Durant is a more valuable player

698
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,359
than Devin Booker. And if I don't feel strongly compelled,

699
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,759
and by the way, I probably said something different during

700
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,480
our quarter season, I might have had Kevin Durant on

701
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:50,799
second team. I think that's what I did.

702
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,319
Speaker 2: I think we both had him on a team.

703
00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:55,279
Speaker 1: For sure, I did because he he's been so great.

704
00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:57,680
But now I'm starting to question the context under which

705
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,359
which it's coming. And look, if you say that stupid

706
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,759
blatant Suns, then they're they're twisting everybody into a pretzel,

707
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,680
right down to their to their pick swap, like trading

708
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,960
picks for multiple picks and swapping those picks with the

709
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:12,200
least favorable swaps of the most favorable swaps from the

710
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,240
team that has fewer swaps than then with a little

711
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,799
bit more least favorable bull picks to send out. So

712
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,079
that was the leaving Kevin durantoff felt wrong and including

713
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,440
him felt wrong. And maybe that's a microcosm of the

714
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,799
twenty two Phoenix Suns.

715
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:27,759
Speaker 2: That's how you end up on the fourth, the unofficial

716
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:31,440
fourth team. So the other guy, I think that we

717
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,799
probably gotta discuss. I already talked about Sibonis. He was

718
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:38,880
a really tough omission here, and I guess relatedly, dearon Fox.

719
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,160
I just think the efficiency is dipped enough and the

720
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,000
Kings just aren't good enough for us to really even

721
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,920
think about two guys. Kid Cunningham didn't make either of

722
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,759
our teams and I have watching him lately. It's like

723
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:53,799
that guy feels like an All NBA player, uh the

724
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,319
like still around, like fifty four to fifty five true shooting,

725
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:59,119
which is not just not good enough, still a heavy lift,

726
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,880
still just you know, just such a complete offensive player,

727
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:05,720
which is weird to say, as I just said, he's

728
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,400
fifty four to fifty five true shooting. But like, I

729
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,360
don't know, I feel bad. I don't. It doesn't sit

730
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,039
well with me that we didn't get him on there.

731
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:14,639
But then it just becomes a question of who are

732
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,599
you taken offense? And that I guess maybe for me

733
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:20,119
it'd be like Kyrie, I guess which he will fall off.

734
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,480
That was a tough one for me. I'm sure you

735
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,119
felt the same way because you've been You were in

736
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,719
on kid, like I think a little sooner than I

737
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,559
was this year.

738
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,519
Speaker 1: Right, and I initially because we do talk, but anyone

739
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:32,360
who thinks that research doesn't go into this, and we're

740
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,239
just gonna so Grant and I will spend hours doing

741
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,559
research and then we kind of confer beforehand while we're

742
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,840
finishing up the graphics. I had cad over Anthony Davis

743
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,079
and just I was trying to make a case myself,

744
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:43,920
and I was, I know, Davis on offense is not

745
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,360
the Davis we saw to start the season. But where

746
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,320
would the Lakers like be without what he does on defense?

747
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,679
And they're not even a great defensive team. That's with

748
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,360
Anthony Davis, I think, still being a great defensive player.

749
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,599
I couldn't get there. So yeah, he was there. You've

750
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,639
I mean, like both the Pacers stars, right, Siakham was

751
00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:04,280
a tougher cut for me in like totality, just because

752
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,840
he's had the better wire wire season, But like Tyre's

753
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,719
Haliburton just looks the past what like two months or so,

754
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:10,719
like Tyre's Haliburton.

755
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah there is there's there's our guy. He came back good.

756
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,679
See that was tough. Yeah, both those guys were. I

757
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:17,679
actually had Siakam I think on a third team in

758
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,760
like an early draft of this, and I just I

759
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,840
just kept thinking, like I just moved him down and

760
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,000
down and down and he fell off.

761
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, answer for your sin, your cardinal sin? Where is

762
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:28,760
where's Jalen Williams?

763
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's just the scoring efficiency.

764
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,440
It's a shooting under thirty four percent from three now

765
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,760
and and as it's just like it's an indivisible part

766
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,519
of the Jalen Williams discussion. Is just like he isn't

767
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:45,840
able to be the lead offensive guy when SGA is

768
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,920
off the floor. We you know, despite being very very

769
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,079
good at literally everything that you want an NBA basketball

770
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:55,119
player to be good at. That's a pretty. That's a pretty.

771
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,239
And again, Jalens is great, Like he's a really good player,

772
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,840
Like he's the second best player on a team that

773
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,199
might you know, if if they go nuts, are going

774
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,559
to threaten the all time wins record. Like that's that's

775
00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:09,360
that's a true statement. It's just the scoring efficiency is down.

776
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,119
He's he doesn't do the one thing you really do

777
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,039
need him to do for a few minutes a game

778
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,480
for this team, not to say he won't ever do that.

779
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:20,400
Still obviously young enough to get there. It was just

780
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,239
a numbers game and and the offense wasn't what it

781
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,800
needed to be to get him on this team. And

782
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:30,199
I think we're maybe also being a little farther away

783
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:33,159
from the holy shit, he's playing center on defense stretch

784
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:36,039
of the season, which was like a real defining thing

785
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:37,679
for him, and maybe we're going to get back to

786
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,280
that a little more, but but still that that's kind

787
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,320
of where I landed. I mean, you did you didn't

788
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,119
you have him on a team last time we did this, I.

789
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: Had him on second team. The offensive efficiency has fallen off.

790
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,519
I think he's the defense has been I think he's

791
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:52,840
gotten better defensively. And that's by the way, he's still

792
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,119
among what did I have the filter on players with

793
00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:58,880
five hundred minutes? I just doesn't feel right even to

794
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,639
having I mean, we know I don't want any games,

795
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:03,239
but even having watched the Thunder, among everyone who's play

796
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,079
at least five hundred minutes, he's second in percentage of

797
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:09,559
shots at the rim contested. And that's just like that

798
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:12,840
feels wrong. J Waimes is what six ' six, Yeah,

799
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,639
I be sure, So I just don't he's been great.

800
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,039
But the offensive efficiency in the minutes, like if you're

801
00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:21,719
talking about I mean, like we're just talking about digging

802
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,039
Shay for his efficiency and it's Jalen Williams has an

803
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:28,559
easier offensive role than shake gilges Alexander and like the

804
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:30,679
three point clip, like that kind of dipping in the

805
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:33,760
I don't want to say the inability, but like the

806
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,599
swing piece for him, because if I had to pick

807
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,960
right now, I still think Jay dub makes multiple NBA

808
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,360
teams over the course of his career.

809
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: Agree, but the swing if.

810
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: He is never the guy that can run the offense

811
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,320
independent of I'm not even saying like needs to be

812
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,559
the one, like the best offensive player on a really

813
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,039
good team, but can lead the offense when the best

814
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:54,679
offensive player on your team is off the court, that is.

815
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,920
And look, those minutes were better last year, which was

816
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,599
another thing that I was kind of thinking about. So

817
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:00,679
maybe some of it's a symptom of the personnel that's

818
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,400
around him this year and the way they're being run.

819
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,760
But he another time. I mean, I would love for there.

820
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,639
I don't necessarily need a fourth All NBA team, but

821
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:11,400
I think the league is deep enough that it'd be

822
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,840
great if we had it, and that I would also

823
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,280
like a third All defense team. Totally unrelated to this discussion, but.

824
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,639
Speaker 2: So well, we're gonna do one.

825
00:38:19,079 --> 00:38:21,079
Speaker 1: We're gonna do Defensive Player of the Year. Now though,

826
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,079
Grant you want to take well, I'll take us through

827
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:25,079
this because your All defense teams will come up first.

828
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,880
We have the same ballots. I'll just take us through

829
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,039
both of ours. Wenby at one Evan Mobley at two,

830
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:34,639
Jaron Jackson Junior at three? Is there an argument against

831
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:35,280
Wenby at one?

832
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,639
Speaker 2: Not that I'm really willing to listen to. I think

833
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,199
like you could say you could I guess you could

834
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,639
cite like, well, there are players who allow a lower

835
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:48,159
field goal percentage at the rim, and there's you know,

836
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,400
there's I guess you could put cases together. But I

837
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,679
just if you've watched if you've watched five Spurs games

838
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,079
this year, just say five, you are not open to

839
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,039
the argument that there's a better defensive player on the

840
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:01,400
planet there.

841
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,679
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that he's the most intelligible defender.

842
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,159
A lot of what he's smart by the way I

843
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:07,480
think he's when you look at some of the passes

844
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,000
he's making this year, Like the Q is there, but

845
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,039
like the physical tools and knowing how to use them,

846
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:15,079
and the fact that he still can test so many

847
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:17,239
shots around the room even though he's like flying around

848
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,239
all over the place, and look a lot of the

849
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,480
like if you go by dumpson threes is defensive EPM,

850
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:25,079
Like he's not even gonna rank in the top five

851
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:27,360
of actual I'm looking at there's they have a projected

852
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,239
tab but I'm looking at the actuals right now. According

853
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,360
to that, I'm not even looking at it's open. But

854
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,599
Alex Caruso would be defensive player that if you're going

855
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:36,880
off that followed by a AA Hartenstein and then.

856
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,519
Speaker 2: I believe the bonus is not very low on the

857
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:41,440
l The bonus is up there on that list. So

858
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,079
trust the trust the DPM at your own risk.

859
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: Look, defense is just like you need to watch C

860
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,719
to at least have an opinion here, and even I

861
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,880
mean I don't watch or C, but I just I can't.

862
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,559
I don't know what the case is against him. If

863
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:56,360
you want to look at it and say, oh, the

864
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,519
Spurs aren't like a top ten defensive team overall. They

865
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,960
rate in the seventy eight percentile of defense when he's

866
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,679
on the court. That's high enough when you're looking at like,

867
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,719
all right, he's playing with like their some DYD like

868
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,119
Julian Champenny and you have Jeremy Sohan and Steph Castle.

869
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,000
But like Steph Castle is a rookie. It's just he

870
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:19,760
has the counting stats and he passes the eye test.

871
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,840
For me, he has the advanced metrics. Even if he's

872
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,199
not gonna lead in a lot of them.

873
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then after I mean, I think Mobley is

874
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:29,559
to me, well, it's not as locked in as Wemby

875
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:31,920
is at one, but I didn't. I just felt like

876
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,079
it was such a clear one, two, three, and I

877
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,760
mobile his mobility, his his the way he can get

878
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,440
in a stance and guard you know, one to four,

879
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:45,320
just obviously five, but like his perimeter defense is just

880
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,000
all I can do. When I watch the Cavs is think, like, man,

881
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,039
that's gonna work in the playoffs. That's gonna wreck a

882
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,079
lot of teams plans. If you're trying to you know,

883
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,360
you're gonna have to really work hard to get the

884
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,000
right switches and the right two guys involved in picking

885
00:40:57,039 --> 00:40:59,480
and pick and roll in handoff actions because if Mobley's

886
00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:01,840
in it, like that play is not going anywhere. And

887
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,400
he just his versatility, his added strength. We talk about

888
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,960
it mostly in terms of what he's doing offensively. His

889
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,280
strength is like, now you don't really move him the

890
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,159
way that I think you used to be able to

891
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,440
with with physicality, So like he really I think he

892
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:20,199
might be a I like the idea of like you know,

893
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,760
there's weakness free like offensive players. He's kind of a

894
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,320
weakness free defensive player. I don't know what the like,

895
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,400
what do you do against Mobili? That's like, well, this

896
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,119
will this is the way we can make it work.

897
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,599
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he will wind up having the

898
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:34,599
better body of defensive work than Yannis, but the thing

899
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:38,679
that distinguishes him to me, aside from you, the Bucks

900
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:41,719
have even like in past years Yannis at center was

901
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,840
a last resort, is like, he can do the helper stuff,

902
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:47,280
but if you need him to just go check that

903
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,599
one guy, it's not what you want him to do,

904
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:51,719
but he can also do that. And this is just

905
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,599
it's it's I guess it's he's kind of like Giannis

906
00:41:54,639 --> 00:41:57,400
and bam Adabaio combined. Is that.

907
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: That's except he can shoot threes, which neither of those

908
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:02,400
as ever, did I not did you factor that into

909
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,039
this discussion?

910
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,199
Speaker 1: Uh and and Jared Jackson Junior just spectacularly Grizzli is

911
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,920
still the only team is real corded this by the way,

912
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,480
in the top five of offensive defense. And honestly, you

913
00:42:14,519 --> 00:42:17,559
can watch the Grizzlies that is inexplicable when you look

914
00:42:17,559 --> 00:42:20,079
at the talent on their roster and the concerns maybe

915
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:22,079
not so much on defense, but about their offense and

916
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:24,119
every like. I hope everyone's checked out the Ben Taylor

917
00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:26,840
video by now, but even knowing what they're doing, it's

918
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,880
just it's inexplicable.

919
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:28,559
Speaker 2: Uh.

920
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:31,079
Speaker 1: He's been great though, and he's I do think it's

921
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:32,920
help that they've been able to put him, I feel like,

922
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,239
in a more idealistic role for him this year. But

923
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,480
he's just been the folkrum of what is one of

924
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:42,320
the five best defenses in the league and the Grizzlies

925
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,360
have what are the Cavs at in defense right now?

926
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,920
And checks him in, But the Grizzlies have the best

927
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,920
defense of anyone on this list too, So that would

928
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,000
be the other thing you have. That and the fact

929
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:53,760
that Jared Jackson Junior is someone who is going to

930
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,239
make that team, like the fifth best defense in the

931
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,440
league better when he's on the court. I mean, like

932
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,480
there's a real testament to that. So I it's do

933
00:43:03,519 --> 00:43:04,880
you I don't lament this yet.

934
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,679
Speaker 2: Do you think we'll get.

935
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: To a point where Wemby's just gonna rack up so

936
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,320
many almost unchallenged Defensive Player of the Year awards that

937
00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:14,519
you'll kind of regret, like, oh, now we're getting excited

938
00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:16,599
about the number two number three debate.

939
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: Probably, or it's like, should we have just given Mobili

940
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,039
one now because he's this is his last chance.

941
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: Two years ago?

942
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're ahead of the curve. Yeah. I think

943
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:28,039
it's you know, it's not like a hot take. Wemby's

944
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:30,239
just gonna lock this down for a really long time

945
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,599
if he's healthy. So sorry, sorry, everybody else.

946
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,039
Speaker 1: You want to take us three year all defense squads?

947
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so got the top three guys there, Uh, Wemby

948
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,039
mobiley triple J. So I was I've made a couple

949
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:45,079
of changes from last time, and really it's pretty obvious.

950
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:47,920
I just skewed bigger. I just skewed towards centers, and

951
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,920
so I have Rudy Gobert and it beats the Zubats

952
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,559
on my on my first team. Go Beart hasn't been

953
00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:56,639
as good as he was before, but he was Defensive

954
00:43:56,639 --> 00:43:58,400
Player of the Year last year. So if he's the

955
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,800
fourth or fifth best defensive player, that's still pretty good.

956
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,199
Even if he's regressed a little bit. The room protection

957
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,360
still is great defensive rebounding. Similar case for Zubots and Zubots.

958
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,800
To distinguish him a little bit is just like we

959
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,400
gotta give somebody credit for this Clippers thing, and like

960
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,440
he's just been he's been really underrated this year. I

961
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,039
think you could make a case he's had a lot

962
00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:21,840
of offensive growth too, sort of by like necessity. But

963
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:25,880
the Clips defense like really does center around him. They

964
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,039
have good point of attack defenders. Chris Done is I

965
00:44:28,039 --> 00:44:30,159
think gonna be on both of our second teams. Maybe

966
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:32,320
I forget what you did with him on yours.

967
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,199
Speaker 1: That's a fact. I don't know. I think Chris Dunn

968
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,159
is better and I didn't have zoobots in one of

969
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:38,039
my all defense teams. But I think you can also

970
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:39,519
make the case that he might be more important of

971
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:42,199
the Clippers defense when you're just looking at the minutes

972
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:45,400
played and their lack of alternative as well.

973
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, very true, very true. Yeah, Like if you're talking

974
00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:52,400
about replacement values, like there's not another Chris Dunn approximation

975
00:44:52,639 --> 00:44:55,519
on that team. I just I the more I think

976
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:58,519
about it, the more it's like it's the centers just

977
00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:01,519
matter more. Center's like are a team's defense. You know

978
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:04,440
when we talk, you can hide bad point of attack defenders,

979
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,440
you can stick guys in the corner, but it's just

980
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:10,039
like the game changing defenders just are with some exceptions.

981
00:45:10,039 --> 00:45:13,440
We'll talk about them with unless you're like insanely disruptive

982
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,159
or or you're like a Tony Allen level, like I

983
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,760
will just make it impossible for a wing to score.

984
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,360
It's just I'm gonna go center. So that's a little bit.

985
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,119
I just kind of had a philosophical kind of I

986
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:25,840
got it. I just had to make that decision. So

987
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:28,679
that's first team, second team. As I mentioned Chris Donn,

988
00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:32,039
Anthony Davis, Dyson Daniels, which is that kind of like

989
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,280
just insanely disruptive wing slash guard that I was talking about,

990
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:39,840
still got Jada there. That was before you even cited

991
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,639
that ridiculous shots contested inside stat And I'm n Thompson

992
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,519
another just like the game wrecker kind of mold as

993
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:52,079
a wing. So anything anything there you wanted to talk about,

994
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:53,800
or anything significantly different from yours.

995
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 1: Why I'm and Thompson over Dylan Brooks.

996
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:04,039
Speaker 2: I think I think Thompson is more disruptive. I think

997
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:10,039
I've probably just seen him completely eliminate guys at the one, two,

998
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:12,920
and three in ways that Brooks I don't think has

999
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:15,960
this year. I think like Lo like low key Brooks

1000
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,199
is like I think Brooks is like a negative wingspan

1001
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,599
guy or like pretty close to it, whereas Thompson's just

1002
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:25,239
can reach everything. It's probably more. I think there probably

1003
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,800
are numbers that like Brooks a little better. I think

1004
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,920
Thompson's just the athleticism, the length, the versatility, the way

1005
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,519
that he blows plays up, like whether he's coming from

1006
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:38,280
a help position or on the ball. It she feels different,

1007
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,920
like I think being guarded. Being guarded by either of

1008
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,880
those guys sucks. But with Brooks it's because like he's

1009
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,239
gonna hold you and he's gonna, you know, be ultra physical.

1010
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,400
With Thompson, it's like you're like being guarded by a

1011
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,159
three headed like King Kobra or something where it's just

1012
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,280
like anywhere you go, he's just gonna just put He's

1013
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,039
defensive poison. I don't know. I'm struggling with the analogy.

1014
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: I think I think that's fair. I'll throw mine up

1015
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,480
because I have both of the Rockets on my teams.

1016
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,599
But my first team is eerily sim well not really.

1017
00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:11,400
We have Wemby, Evan Mobley, Jarre Jackson Junior, my three

1018
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,320
DPOY candidates. Then I have Lou Dort, who I think

1019
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,639
is in the realm of I just I still feel

1020
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:19,800
like the job that he's told to do, whereas you

1021
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,760
just have to go check that best perimeter player for

1022
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,360
the most part, is what Dylan Brooks does in Houston,

1023
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:26,840
even and I know part of that might have been

1024
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,960
skewed by Okay Amen Thompson was coming off the bench

1025
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:30,760
for so long, but I mean that's also like the

1026
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,360
minutes between Amen Thompson and Dylan Brooks. For me, they've

1027
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,360
now that gap is closed. They're within Like I think

1028
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,360
Ammen Thoms like one hundred and fifty minutes fewer or

1029
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,280
whatever than Brooks. But I think Brooks's job is harder.

1030
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,119
I think Dort, independent of one of the bigs who

1031
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,039
neither room has played enough to get consideration here, just

1032
00:47:48,079 --> 00:47:49,960
has the hardest job on the Thunder, and I think

1033
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,920
it goes overlooked because by having that job and he

1034
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,760
does it better I think than Klay Thompson did. It

1035
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,679
does take away from the counting stats that a lot

1036
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,519
for him to be, like if you want him to

1037
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:03,159
be disruptive, Like, no, I'm not saying he could be

1038
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,039
Dyson Daniels, who I also have my first team, by

1039
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,760
the way, because Dyson Daniels is equal parts. Okay, he

1040
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,480
has the counting stats and disruptive and oh that dude

1041
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:12,320
is just defending like the best players on the court

1042
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,559
all the time as well every night you and you

1043
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:17,039
had him first team last time, I didn't. I think

1044
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:19,119
I've seen a lot of the Hawks over this last

1045
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:22,599
quarter of the season, and they're my team where if

1046
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:24,440
I was running them, i'd do something stupid because I

1047
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,119
think that there's something there at the trade the line

1048
00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:29,039
as well. So those are my I just Dyson Daniels

1049
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:30,599
for me, like, if he's gonna shoulder that type of

1050
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:33,519
responsibility while still being disruptive, he's going to be in

1051
00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:36,920
my second team. Bam Adebayo, Anthony Davis, Dylan Brooks, am

1052
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,039
And Thompson and Chris Dunn of EACHA. Zubots Jalen Williams

1053
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:42,400
were both very tough cuts for me. And this is

1054
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,039
the second time I think I said of Viata Zubots

1055
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:45,400
is a very tough cut for me. So I might

1056
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,760
just need to, you know, adult up and put him

1057
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,679
on one of these teams. That's why I really want

1058
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,639
a third team. But I do think that if you

1059
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:55,320
asked me to pick a Rockets player. Maybe this is

1060
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,440
different by season's end, like if Jabari Smith comes back

1061
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,719
and Aman Thompson is still I just still think that

1062
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,159
Dylan Brooks has been the more valuable defender for Houston.

1063
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:07,079
But they're both. I mean, Jabar Smith Junior is missing time,

1064
00:49:07,159 --> 00:49:09,320
Tarry Eastan's missing time, and the defense just doesn't miss

1065
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,760
a beat because of these two guys.

1066
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, it's funny with the Rockets, like this is

1067
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,079
part of like why Shingoon might get some all. You

1068
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:20,079
gave him an All Star consideration, I had him kind

1069
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:22,039
of like I didn't put him on an All NBA team,

1070
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:24,119
but I thought about it. It's like, I don't know,

1071
00:49:24,159 --> 00:49:25,760
he's been a big part of that defense too, but

1072
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,840
like so is Brooks, so is Thompson. There's just so

1073
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,079
is Tarry Easton. There's so many guys that's like we

1074
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:33,239
gotta the credit is being like split so, I mean,

1075
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,639
which is a great problem to have and why their

1076
00:49:35,679 --> 00:49:37,800
defense is so so devastating.

1077
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,199
Speaker 1: Suggs is also a tough cut. By the way, I'm

1078
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:43,519
wondering if when not so much with Easton just because

1079
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:45,519
the minutes weren't there. I do wonder if there's a

1080
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:48,440
bias creeping in when I'm looking about players that seem

1081
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:51,360
like they're gonna lose their ineligibility, and so like, I

1082
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,800
know Tari Easton fifteen games miss, he's not gonna be eligible,

1083
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,880
and then Joe and Suggs kind of he's at eleven

1084
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,280
right now, and it's right, well, how much time is

1085
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,639
he actually gonna wind up missing? Had Derek Lively played

1086
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:02,119
more or not been about to miss? I mean, I

1087
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:03,760
know you only missed eleven games as of now, but

1088
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,800
you had him on your All defense team last year.

1089
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about Antonobe because he

1090
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,079
didn't make either of our teams. He was like a

1091
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:16,360
tough cut for me, certainly reputationally and certainly like practically speaking. They're,

1092
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,199
like I think you said, like in a postseason setting,

1093
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:20,960
like there's not a lot of guys you'd rather have

1094
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:23,480
on your team defensively than him. So I'm curious how

1095
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:25,280
come he didn't make the cut for you he.

1096
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: Made second team last time. For me, I just he's

1097
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,440
been gambling a little too much, and maybe it's because

1098
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,480
the Knicks are worse around him than the Raptors. Well,

1099
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:36,599
the defensive talent. I mean when you look at some

1100
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:38,119
of the talent he had around him in Toronto and

1101
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:40,360
then the talent that was around him last year, that

1102
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,480
gambling doesn't fly with the current personnel, and I think

1103
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,679
that that might have tinged me a bit against it.

1104
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: So there's yeah, yeah, I think.

1105
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: You could argue though that is there a because it's

1106
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:54,559
that's this is an indictment of how teams are built.

1107
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:56,559
But I think you can argue, like you pull Og

1108
00:50:56,679 --> 00:50:58,920
Andobi off the Knicks and are they just the worst

1109
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,119
defense in the league.

1110
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: Right mcause suddenly mckel bridges has to be your like

1111
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,840
point of attack guy and like helping like jump passing

1112
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,119
lane steel for Steele's wing and he can't guard centers

1113
00:51:09,159 --> 00:51:11,440
like Og can. If you need him like that's yeah,

1114
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:13,480
they would be in big trouble without him for sure.

1115
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,239
Generally speaking, don't gamble if Kat is your back line defender, honestly,

1116
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:19,480
don't gamble.

1117
00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: If you also have Jaalen Brunson on your team as well,

1118
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,199
probably he's not gonna be on the back line much,

1119
00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:27,639
but still so yeah, he's I have also the thing

1120
00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:30,880
I struggled with, and it happens, so I only had

1121
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:34,159
the Rockets doubling up here is I find myself inclined

1122
00:51:34,199 --> 00:51:36,039
to like want to spread the love where it's okay,

1123
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:38,840
I recognize this team, Like should I have included ogn

1124
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,519
and Obi over Aman Thompson or Dylan Brooks just like

1125
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:45,320
he's represented in here, or like and did that creep

1126
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,639
into my logic a little bit with the Thunder, because

1127
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:49,519
I do think Jay Dubb has a really strong case

1128
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:51,480
to make all defense I did you did not have

1129
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:52,480
lou Dort though at all?

1130
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,159
Speaker 2: No I would I was just looking at Ears. I

1131
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:59,000
would have had Dort ahead of Brooks for example, and

1132
00:51:59,079 --> 00:52:03,480
probably out of bio. But like the Thunder, a little

1133
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:04,800
bit that way too is a little bit of a

1134
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,920
Houston problem, Like imagine, well, first of all, if Chet

1135
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,440
were playing, he would have been on the first team.

1136
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:10,480
If like, if Chet had played enough, I think that

1137
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:11,840
would have been a pretty easy one for me. I

1138
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,800
would have bumped Zubots or Gobert and then you know,

1139
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,239
Jadab good defender SGA. We talked about a little bit Pruso.

1140
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: When he's healthy, they could have had like if no

1141
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,280
one let's just say no one missed the games or

1142
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,360
everyone was going to play at least sixty five games.

1143
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:26,800
The list of players for the Thunder that you could

1144
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:32,000
probably make a reasonable case for Caruso, Dort, j Dubb, Holmgren,

1145
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,880
Hart Andstein is five. I think some people would say

1146
00:52:35,079 --> 00:52:37,480
you got to add Sga to that list, or hi Jathan

1147
00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:38,400
Wallace to that list.

1148
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,199
Speaker 2: I think they could have had four of my ten

1149
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,039
first and second team spots if they were if everybody

1150
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:45,880
was healthy, that team is fucking nuts.

1151
00:52:46,679 --> 00:52:48,039
Speaker 1: H we move on to I don't even know what

1152
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:50,519
award is next. I already forgot Rookie of the Year,

1153
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:53,079
which is yours to take us through?

1154
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:58,079
Speaker 2: All right, so I have I mean, this is guess what, guys,

1155
00:52:58,119 --> 00:52:59,679
The draft class was not great. This is a weird

1156
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,159
rookie season. I got Jalen Well's first, good job, number

1157
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:08,400
thirty nine, pick Zach Edy second, good job Memphis Grizzlies.

1158
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,960
You got two of the year two for two, and

1159
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,599
then I have Steph Castle third. I still think of

1160
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:18,559
those three, Steph Castle is someone that has like pretty

1161
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:23,000
clearly the highest ceiling. The scoring efficiency just isn't good enough.

1162
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,199
And uh it's that maybe that's just where you stop.

1163
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,039
The scoring efficiency is not good enough. I think he's

1164
00:53:29,079 --> 00:53:32,719
really just has shown so many flashes as a defender,

1165
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,360
as a driver, as a passer, like pretty smart the combo.

1166
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,840
I think I've said this before of his athleticism and

1167
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,840
like willingness to pass and ability to pass is real scary.

1168
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,559
Like if he ever is a player that defenses have

1169
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:50,119
to close out on, he's like, man, like, that's going

1170
00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:52,480
to be trouble. So he's third here, But I do

1171
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:55,360
I just acknowledge. You can tell me whether you agree

1172
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,639
that if you had to bet on you know, the

1173
00:53:57,639 --> 00:53:59,440
next five years, of any of these guys we have

1174
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:00,960
on our list, you'd probably pick him.

1175
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:06,199
Speaker 1: Ah, I'm like, I'm jailing Wells pilled. I'm not gonna lie,

1176
00:54:06,199 --> 00:54:07,679
like you give me the guy who they've had him

1177
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,199
defend some bigs. In addition is covering like these tough

1178
00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:13,280
perimeter assignments on a team that again is top five

1179
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,159
in defense, and he's hitting three. So he was my

1180
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,559
one You're probably right with just in terms of swinging, Yeah,

1181
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:19,280
it would be step.

1182
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,599
Speaker 2: I guess like Castle's upsides higher and I'm not sure

1183
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:24,360
he's gonna hit it. Wells is just gonna be a

1184
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,320
starter like forever. I guess the.

1185
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: So I have Steph Castle too, and I still have

1186
00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:32,719
McCain at three and one, the game's minimum don't apply.

1187
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,079
And then when I was digging into it, he's played

1188
00:54:34,119 --> 00:54:37,239
five as we're recording this, he's played five fewer minutes

1189
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,199
than Zach Edy at this point, and so I was

1190
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:42,119
considering Zach Edey, I'm like, I'm overthinking this. Jared McCain

1191
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:44,280
can still technically he could still be here when we

1192
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:47,280
do this at the end of the year, but now specifically,

1193
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,840
I think he could still be there. Just what he

1194
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,000
was doing on offense was bonkers. Yeah, for Steph Castle

1195
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,679
to be as good defensively too as you are as

1196
00:54:54,679 --> 00:54:56,599
a rookie having it's a big deal. That coupled with

1197
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,719
the volume of his role. I do think for me,

1198
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,679
if you wanted Steph Castle to win, the difficulty of

1199
00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:07,519
Jalen Wells's role on defense, I think it exceeds the

1200
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:11,000
difficulty of Steph Castle's role at either end of the four.

1201
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,199
So that's the differential, just like the like he can

1202
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:18,119
shoot threes, and yes, his role simpler, but I really

1203
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:21,440
like Steph Castle is strong, he can get to the rim,

1204
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,760
like he's one of the better guys at creating like

1205
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,840
shots at the rim, like the efficiency from everywhere just

1206
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,159
basically needs to get better. And look, he's still there's

1207
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:33,199
like I guess some hesitants on his threes, but like

1208
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,039
he's been taking them for the most part all year,

1209
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:36,519
and if it ever starts to go down, like even

1210
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:38,960
just a set jumper, that becomes a really big deal.

1211
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,519
And I do like the lane navigation from him already.

1212
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,400
The all rookie teams I have on mine, Jalen Wells,

1213
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,719
Steph Castle, and McCain are on first team. Those are

1214
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,760
my all rookie bellot then Zach Edy of course, who's

1215
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,079
just so there's the defensive aspect component of what he does,

1216
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,960
but then there's also kind of oh he's shooting okay

1217
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,159
from three on, like he's taking what like thirty four

1218
00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:00,960
threes or something on this he's in. I don't hate it.

1219
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: I kind of wish it's under just under forty percent,

1220
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:06,119
Like last time I looked it up and it's the

1221
00:56:06,199 --> 00:56:08,360
volume isn't enough. But it's like, if if that's a

1222
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,000
thing we got, that gets pretty interesting.

1223
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,599
Speaker 1: Of the first team, and I guess maybe sars creeping

1224
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:15,719
in here, but like he has if you're talking Wells

1225
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,880
and Castle and Edie who has the most offensive utility

1226
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,119
right now of the three? Oh, is it just tackle

1227
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:24,920
because of the ball handling, But Edie might have a case.

1228
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 2: I think it might actually be like Wells is just

1229
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,119
the plug and play, like he's gonna make enough threes

1230
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,639
and you know, be low usage. But Edi Edi, you

1231
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:35,760
really can't. Like there are just matchups where he's just

1232
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,599
too big and you can just throw it in. He's

1233
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:40,960
gonna score. He's he can roll and just be taller

1234
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,559
than everyone like that, and then if you get any

1235
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:46,559
kind of threes, it's kind of like it's it's I mean,

1236
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:49,239
brook Lopez was a really good like post technician, so

1237
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,360
it's not quite the same because Edie is just kind

1238
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,159
of forceful. But it's like you get both versions of

1239
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:56,639
brook Lopez in Zach Edy, Like you get the pre

1240
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,119
three point shooting and the post if things go right

1241
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:01,679
for him. So pretty interesting thing to think about.

1242
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,559
Speaker 1: And then I have star on my first team. I

1243
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:05,519
don't even think he did not make my second team

1244
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:08,679
last time. And so like a few things account for this.

1245
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,800
Since the last time that we did this exercise, Alex

1246
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,159
Sars looked way better on offense. He is shooting thirty

1247
00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:19,119
seven point five percent on threes on five attempts per game.

1248
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,639
He's shooting over seventy five percent in the restricted area.

1249
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,039
And I think he's done a better job as a

1250
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:27,559
passer in the sense of just getting off the ball

1251
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,960
more quickly and finding teammates who are on the move

1252
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:33,800
or looking ahead in transition. And at some point, like

1253
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,840
you have to weight the volume of his role, and

1254
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,840
he is also again the Wizards aren't good defensively, but

1255
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,760
you can see the hot take. You could see like

1256
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,920
the outline of a good defensive player in Sar. And

1257
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,559
I mentioned before how j Dubb is second in the

1258
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:49,840
percentage of shots contested at the rim this season him

1259
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,079
five hundred minutes. Alex Sar is first. And so while

1260
00:57:53,079 --> 00:57:54,679
the numbers still may not be great, like you'd like

1261
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,360
him to save more points at the rim or have

1262
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,639
a lower percentage allowed, basically that role as a rookie

1263
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:02,760
to show is just so huge, and so I'm not

1264
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,480
when we get to like these All League teams, I

1265
00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:07,880
do try to go with outstanding rather than a look

1266
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,280
at how many minutes they played, But like he's doubled

1267
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,639
up the minutes basically that Zach Edi has played. Right now,

1268
00:58:12,639 --> 00:58:14,800
and so just the offensive growth that he has shown.

1269
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:16,679
I still don't know what he's gonna be as someone

1270
00:58:16,719 --> 00:58:19,199
with a floor game. Can he hit the MIDI but

1271
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:20,599
I think you have to be encouraged if you're a

1272
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:23,360
Wizard's fan based off witsar as done. And then my

1273
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:29,320
second team e's mecI, Zach Resiche, Donovan Klingen, who's fifth

1274
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:32,360
Grant in points saved at the rim for seventy five

1275
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,719
possessions this year. I question whether he'll end up playing

1276
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,079
enough to ultimately make this team. I think he has.

1277
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:39,800
If he's available enough, he might have a top three

1278
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,280
Rookie of the Year. Case still have bub Carrington. I

1279
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,880
flirted with including him or Tristan da Silva here, and

1280
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,000
then I have Ryan Dunn. You can no longer say

1281
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,719
that he's contributing to a good team, but to be

1282
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:52,480
like to actualize the three and D role. Even if

1283
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,320
the efficiency has slid, the stuff he's doing on defense

1284
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:56,400
as a rookie is impressive.

1285
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's he's on a better team than three

1286
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,760
of the other four players on your second team, so

1287
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,039
it still counts for or something.

1288
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: Who before we get in some tough cuts, who's on

1289
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:05,920
your all rookie teams.

1290
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:10,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, so wells ed Castle. Obviously I did put me

1291
00:59:10,119 --> 00:59:12,840
Ci on the first team, and that it was tough

1292
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,840
between him, like I could have just the right answer

1293
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,599
still probably is McCain. But I just am kind of

1294
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:22,719
like anticipating, you know, his season's over. It's like I

1295
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,880
think as recently as a couple of weeks ago, he

1296
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,000
was still like fifth in rookie scoring and like second

1297
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:30,760
in MAD three. Just like he's gonna be top ten

1298
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,280
in a bunch of counting stats despite missing three quarters

1299
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:33,719
of the year.

1300
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,679
Speaker 1: And don't you get, like I said before, you have

1301
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,840
Edie on your first team who's played five minutes more than.

1302
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: Right, It's like, so clearly my criteria is kind of

1303
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,280
just like pricing in Yeah, maybe that's not fair at all, actually.

1304
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,199
Speaker 1: But it's price Like I think it's if McCain's.

1305
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: Done, Edie's gonna play, however, many more games. So yeah,

1306
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,960
I had MESI there just quietly has been like if

1307
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,880
you told the Pelicans, hey, this is what you're gonna

1308
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,760
get from me C as a starting center this year

1309
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:01,639
for the season, they'd be like, oh, we're gonna win

1310
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:03,880
fifty seven games, like because everything else will go great

1311
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:04,679
right like that?

1312
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did consider him for first team. I just

1313
01:00:07,519 --> 01:00:09,440
wish he did a little bit more of the traditional

1314
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,000
big man stuff on defense. But I'm pretty limited for

1315
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,119
a rookie on the on the Pelicans of all teams

1316
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:14,519
right now.

1317
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:18,159
Speaker 2: But yeah, not exactly the most stable, consistent environment, not

1318
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:20,800
always supported by the most surrounding talent. So I also

1319
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,599
had Sar first team. I think I had him like

1320
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,639
on an unofficial fourth team last time around. And are

1321
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:30,559
you prepared for some really trenchant, like incisive analysis that

1322
01:00:30,599 --> 01:00:33,840
you've never heard before about? Are you ready? Dan? I

1323
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,559
think the game is slowing down for him. WHOA have

1324
01:00:36,599 --> 01:00:37,800
you ever heard anybody say that?

1325
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,159
Speaker 1: How do you feel about his feel?

1326
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 2: I think I think he's a he's starting to see

1327
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,920
the pictures. What else? What else do they always say,

1328
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,119
like you've seen enough pictures now to where he just

1329
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,480
I had the exact same reaction you did watching them

1330
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,719
a little more, even in like short stints against the

1331
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,920
Lakers on What's Today on Tuesday Night, Like I think

1332
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,440
it compared to the first quarter of the season, where

1333
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,760
he was like lost and you're like, I can't even

1334
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,199
see a way to this guy being impactful other than

1335
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:09,800
maybe he'll block shots. The three point shooting is a

1336
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,519
real thing. It seems like he's so much smoother, so

1337
01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:15,280
much more like just I guess confident going to the

1338
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,960
basket like he looks. I can see it now, like

1339
01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:20,239
I get it, And I really wonder what we would

1340
01:01:20,239 --> 01:01:23,119
think of him if we hadn't gone into this draft

1341
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:26,400
being told over and over and over again that there's

1342
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,400
just not a guy in this draft, you know, because

1343
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,639
you could see the outlines right now of someone that's like, yeah,

1344
01:01:32,679 --> 01:01:34,760
that's a top five pick in almost any draft. Like

1345
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,719
I'm not saying he'll get to that level, but I

1346
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,679
can understand now like what this might look like in

1347
01:01:40,719 --> 01:01:43,639
a few years. And it's pretty encouraging on both ends, honestly,

1348
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:45,920
which is like a shock based on how ugly things

1349
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,440
were early. So he's the last first teamer for me.

1350
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,119
McCain and I stuck on the second team Reesache Carrington

1351
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,679
kling in, so we have the same second The only

1352
01:01:54,719 --> 01:01:58,320
difference is I have mecI first team and McCain second

1353
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:01,079
between our two teams. As on my second.

1354
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,599
Speaker 1: Team, there's other names that I'm sure, but well, I'm

1355
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:05,039
actually looking at the docs. I know both of us

1356
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:08,599
considered Osogadaro. Ron Holland is second creeping in there sixty

1357
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:11,599
two percent shooting onto Tristan da Silva made your team

1358
01:02:11,679 --> 01:02:15,000
last time, Honora will mention. Right now, I think collel

1359
01:02:15,079 --> 01:02:18,360
Ware Keishawn Georges. The AJ Mitchell injury is a real

1360
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,480
bummer because it was just kind of another dude, where's

1361
01:02:20,519 --> 01:02:22,599
like they really draft this. He's on a two way.

1362
01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:24,280
He's defending like this is he gonna make it All

1363
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,440
Rookie team and then a name to keep an eye

1364
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,719
on because now they need him to play and he's

1365
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,840
back from injury and he's been on kind of a heater.

1366
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,679
Rob Dillingham like, if we do this again, like at

1367
01:02:35,679 --> 01:02:38,280
the three quarters mark, he might just be All Rookie

1368
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:39,400
first Team at that point.

1369
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,199
Speaker 2: I know it's anecdotal, but but now that he's back

1370
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:46,480
in the stretches I've seen him play, it's like undeniable

1371
01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:49,199
that he unlocks like parts of the Wolves offense that

1372
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,400
just just don't get like touched on unless he's out there.

1373
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,039
He really like just being quick, just being able to

1374
01:02:55,079 --> 01:02:58,159
smoke his guy off the dribble is just like nobody does.

1375
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,239
No one on the whole team does that he like

1376
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:03,519
he really does have there is like utility for this guy.

1377
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,880
I so just stay healthy because I do I agree.

1378
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,360
I think there's a great chance that he just is

1379
01:03:09,559 --> 01:03:11,320
impactful enough to climb into this group.

1380
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,079
Speaker 1: Did you think, like, did you consider we had Dalton

1381
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:16,719
Connect I think on a team last time Jamal shd

1382
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,840
his shooting is picked up from three. He's a name

1383
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:23,840
that I considered. Uh Tjan Salon Man, I'm just looking.

1384
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:26,079
That's just been such a rough go in Charlotte.

1385
01:03:26,159 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with him. I think

1386
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,599
they like seem to think he's just going to be

1387
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:31,800
a three point shooter or maybe that's the only thing

1388
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,159
that like you stand over there and like that for

1389
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:37,599
now I think is it's it's not a great situation.

1390
01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:40,599
Speaker 1: Cody Williams was not considered again, and that's a real

1391
01:03:40,639 --> 01:03:42,800
bummer for my preseason takes.

1392
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:46,159
Speaker 2: I mean, he he had like one great G League

1393
01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:50,360
game shortly after that demotion and then continues to just win.

1394
01:03:50,639 --> 01:03:51,719
Just he's like not out there.

1395
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: Need to him to the thunder and then him and Ja.

1396
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,079
Speaker 2: That's what it's all long con That's what this has

1397
01:03:57,119 --> 01:03:57,559
been about.

1398
01:03:58,119 --> 01:04:01,519
Speaker 1: Next up for us, most in Proof player, This one's mine.

1399
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,239
So I have normOn Powell number one. He's been I

1400
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,400
think I told you before. I think I get caught

1401
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,239
up in trying to figure out what's the proper way

1402
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,519
to view this award, And I just think we're always

1403
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:15,760
kind of looking for like the really good player that

1404
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,719
made the leap to stardom. But I'm almost more impressed

1405
01:04:18,719 --> 01:04:21,280
by someone who is a decade or whatever into their

1406
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,079
career and then is doing this and like the Norman

1407
01:04:24,119 --> 01:04:27,440
Powell is scoring is way up. The efficiency is still there,

1408
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:30,280
doing more as a driver, more as a self creator,

1409
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,599
a little bit more as a passer. This is crazy, though, Grant,

1410
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:36,599
among everyone who's locked at least one thousand minutes, Powell

1411
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:39,960
has the second largest increase in true usage, and true

1412
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,519
usage incorporates passing and scoring as well as potential assists,

1413
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:48,360
and he has the fourth grant largest increase in self

1414
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,559
created shop making. That's like, I understand, that's a function

1415
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:55,119
of what they've needed out of him this year. That's

1416
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,000
kind of the point where it's not that you've been

1417
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,880
in the league for this many years. You're coming in

1418
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,280
and you're doing that. So I had him, and then

1419
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,039
you know, I struggled with the back of my ballot

1420
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:07,320
Evan Mobley at second. He's just better in every single aspect.

1421
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,360
And I know people don't like looking at these Some

1422
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,199
people don't like looking at the big names and saying

1423
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:14,119
it's them. I did think about putting Kate Cunningham number three,

1424
01:05:14,199 --> 01:05:16,119
but the more I watched the Pistons, I think he's

1425
01:05:16,159 --> 01:05:18,119
gotten better as a defender and a rebounder, and there's

1426
01:05:18,239 --> 01:05:20,800
like some of the offensive field's gotten better. To me,

1427
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,480
I look at it and say, the Pistons had negative

1428
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,320
spacing and now they don't. And this is what Kate

1429
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,800
Cunningham would have been already. That's not a shot at

1430
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,320
him if you did include him. I just went with

1431
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,760
Julian Champenny. That's not supposed to be the I know

1432
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,280
ball pick. It's just even really good when you look

1433
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,440
at what he's doing defensively and kind of typifying like

1434
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,239
the three and D stuff for them, and he's just

1435
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,880
way better, Like his role is way high volume. So

1436
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,039
I kind of I tried to run the I won't

1437
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:51,199
even say I tried because you basically allowed me to

1438
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,519
just put CHAMPENNI at the bottom. It was I'm gonna

1439
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:55,920
pick the guy who's well into his career that's made

1440
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,280
a jump, the young player who's making the leap into

1441
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,079
patmans stardom. Yeah, and then this sort of guy with

1442
01:06:01,119 --> 01:06:04,000
a limited track record who's burst onto the scene. And

1443
01:06:04,039 --> 01:06:06,079
so I tried to cover every single spectrum.

1444
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,599
Speaker 2: You forgot. The only other type you could include is

1445
01:06:09,679 --> 01:06:12,039
just throw Jalen Johnson on there as the guy that like,

1446
01:06:12,159 --> 01:06:14,480
actually the leap was kind of last year, but we're

1447
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:17,840
acknowledging it this year, right oversimplification, that's the only other

1448
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,159
category you missed. So almost, I mean, but we're only

1449
01:06:20,199 --> 01:06:22,760
going three. So you did the best you could. I

1450
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,800
the only difference so I have mobile first, We've talked plenty.

1451
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,360
I just I just think that he's a legitimate offensive

1452
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,679
weapon in a great offense and is like kind of

1453
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:35,679
integral to it functioning because of what he can do

1454
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,039
now off the dribble that was just not a skill

1455
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:42,360
he had previously. Defense is whatever he was great before,

1456
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,760
he's slightly greater now. Just his driving, his physicality that

1457
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,159
you know we've the three point shooting is like, oh,

1458
01:06:49,159 --> 01:06:51,719
that's where the leap is supposed to come. It is there.

1459
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,039
It's a volume question still, but he is someone that

1460
01:06:54,119 --> 01:06:57,639
is making threes now, Cad, I totally I really struggle

1461
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,880
with Kid for the exact same reasons. I don't. I

1462
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,800
just don't know how much of it is context. I

1463
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,360
do think you can say, like you can credit him

1464
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,280
for taking advantage of the context and and you know,

1465
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,559
having shooting around him for the first time ever. You know,

1466
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:16,679
it wasn't a guarantee that he would would become, you know,

1467
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:20,079
a more prolific scorer and patent and assist guy. It

1468
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,920
maybe it should have been the expectation. I just still

1469
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,440
think to deliver on that expectation and be the singular,

1470
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,559
you know driver, the main driver, not singular that that

1471
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:33,480
that's too narrow, the main driver of success on a

1472
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,880
piston seam. That's good now like that that is, you know,

1473
01:07:36,119 --> 01:07:39,400
like might make a postseason appearance. Has been over five

1474
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,360
hundred deeper into a season than at any point in

1475
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,880
a really long time. Like, I don't know, it's just

1476
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,760
all it's Prokaid propaganda. I think he didn't make an All.

1477
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:50,639
Speaker 1: Star team, but it just now was more compelling to

1478
01:07:50,719 --> 01:07:52,880
put him one of your All NBA teams.

1479
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:58,119
Speaker 2: Right, we talk about like which level of leap or

1480
01:07:58,119 --> 01:08:01,280
which level of improvement matters more like it's the biggest

1481
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,000
deal is when a guy does like what Shay did

1482
01:08:03,039 --> 01:08:05,559
a couple of years ago, where it's your All Star

1483
01:08:05,719 --> 01:08:08,719
caliber maybe, and then you're suddenly an MVP guy. I

1484
01:08:08,719 --> 01:08:11,840
think Caid went from like good numbers on a team

1485
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:15,079
that's going nowhere to someone that we both like basically

1486
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:17,119
had to bend over backwards to not put on our

1487
01:08:17,159 --> 01:08:19,640
All Star team. So and then Powell. You made the

1488
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,000
case for Powell. He's my third pick.

1489
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 1: There other names that I considered, and I'm sure you

1490
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:25,279
did and maybe have some differences. And then I have

1491
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:28,079
this guy in the wrong column. So if anyone wants

1492
01:08:28,159 --> 01:08:31,960
is still listening and All Defense, he's missed fifteen games,

1493
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:33,800
and I still think, just when you look at how

1494
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,840
much the other guys had played, like Andrew Nemhart, if

1495
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,359
he doesn't miss another game, it's probably gonna make one

1496
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,640
of my All Defense. That guy's been a monster, really good.

1497
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:42,119
Speaker 2: So that's this.

1498
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: I have him listed under most Improved Player. I did

1499
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,760
not consider him for most Improved Player, but I had

1500
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:47,960
Zobots under here too.

1501
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 2: R J.

1502
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: Barrett. I know the efficiency has come down, but just

1503
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,359
like the level of playmaking he has to shoulder. I

1504
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,680
do think I still put j dubb in here, even

1505
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:59,159
though there some efficiency kind of declined Tyler Hero, Peyton,

1506
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:03,159
Pritchard on Johnson. Of course, if you picked second year players,

1507
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,000
Wemby could just be the answer. Yeah, And I don't

1508
01:09:07,039 --> 01:09:09,680
know what to make we go through this every year.

1509
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,279
I'm not gonna be late here. I didn't pick him,

1510
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:13,000
but those are some of the other names that I

1511
01:09:13,039 --> 01:09:15,159
had considered anything from you, I.

1512
01:09:15,159 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 2: Have all those. I think, did you mention throughout Jalen Johnson?

1513
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:21,079
Did you mention DeAndre Hunter? That's another one where it's

1514
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:23,159
like is he better or is he just healthy and

1515
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:27,359
gets to play? Yeah, Austin Reeves. I don't know why

1516
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:29,399
the Lakers didn't just think he was a point guard

1517
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,840
this whole time like that that works, like and I

1518
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,239
do think there were enough signs earlier in his career

1519
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:36,479
that yeah, you can just he can just be the

1520
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,520
guy on the ball and that's so.

1521
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 1: Do you think he does enough a threat of a

1522
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,239
scorer on the ball for that, because I think part

1523
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:46,600
of the when when I'm watching them and a big

1524
01:09:47,119 --> 01:09:49,680
criticisms when they just can't blow out teams. Yeah, And

1525
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,720
I just found myself wondering. I don't think D'Angel Russell

1526
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,319
was the difference between this, But when you have one

1527
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,520
trustworthy from scratch creator for both himself and others, it's

1528
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,520
probably kind of hard to create that separation between you

1529
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,039
and even bad opponents, let alone good ones.

1530
01:10:05,279 --> 01:10:08,560
Speaker 2: I think maybe on not on any team, but on

1531
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,800
the Lakers, who do get plenty of playmaking from Lebron

1532
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,760
and the offense still you know, kind of can sometimes

1533
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,960
orbit around Anthony Davis. I'm okay with him as I

1534
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,239
think like point guard is perfectly fine for him, Like, yeah,

1535
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:23,399
I can side that he's not gonna blow by guys

1536
01:10:23,399 --> 01:10:26,159
that often, but he's really clever. He's a good passer,

1537
01:10:26,279 --> 01:10:28,079
and he's a good and he's a and has been

1538
01:10:28,119 --> 01:10:30,880
like a great shooter in like a lower usage role.

1539
01:10:31,279 --> 01:10:34,720
So I don't know, I think it's a fair it's

1540
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,000
fair to question, like, is he really different or did

1541
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,279
they just finally like use him in a different way

1542
01:10:39,319 --> 01:10:41,159
and he could have done this all along. I think

1543
01:10:41,159 --> 01:10:43,439
it's probably more of the former. He's just improved enough

1544
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,520
to where like this is a more viable strategy.

1545
01:10:46,039 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Are you ready to take us through

1546
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:48,840
six man in the year.

1547
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:52,319
Speaker 2: Yes, I am so. I've got Peyton Pritchard number one,

1548
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:56,119
just the three point volume that it's just the consistency

1549
01:10:56,119 --> 01:11:01,520
of his scoring. Don't this wasn't really hard. I would

1550
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,079
be surprised if he doesn't win any Do you.

1551
01:11:04,119 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: Know what made it easier? I won't spoil it, but

1552
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,199
because there's a chance that both of our number two

1553
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:11,680
just might not be eligible for the season.

1554
01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 2: Right Yeah, So I have Amen Thompson number two, and

1555
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,880
I have Scotti Pippen Junior third. The numbers are close

1556
01:11:19,279 --> 01:11:21,800
for there are definitely some other guys you could consider

1557
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,359
it three you have somebody else. I just think Pippen,

1558
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,920
like John Rant's gonna has missed close to half the season,

1559
01:11:28,119 --> 01:11:31,520
and Pippen as a like a just a really good

1560
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,560
on ball defender against point guards and as a guy

1561
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,560
that can run the offense. It's great. I think you

1562
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,159
had an incredible driving stat on him last last time

1563
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:43,119
we did this good enough shooter like he's just he's

1564
01:11:43,159 --> 01:11:46,720
basically a starter that just happens to play behind John Morant.

1565
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,640
So he was my third there. So so who do

1566
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:49,960
you have?

1567
01:11:50,319 --> 01:11:54,359
Speaker 1: And Prichard and Amen Thompson, and then I have DeAndre Hunter.

1568
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:55,880
I mean you laid out his case. I mean he's

1569
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,560
coming off the bench, pumping in points, playing reasonable defenses,

1570
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,039
but the efficiency is better from him. Decision making overall

1571
01:12:01,039 --> 01:12:04,159
on offense is better. I also think that you know,

1572
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:06,560
and this would be his case and top I guess

1573
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,800
Thompson's is a right now. I mean he's starting, So

1574
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,600
it's weird. But someone wants asked me like, why don't

1575
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,560
you look at it more through the lens of which

1576
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,640
player comes off the bench and is good enough and

1577
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,119
has a reasonable shot at closing And so if you

1578
01:12:20,119 --> 01:12:21,720
were going to lean on that, I think that's a

1579
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,960
fair way to look at it. DeAndre Hunter or Amen

1580
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:26,640
Thompson would probably be the picks and just giving the

1581
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:29,319
now if you think, do you think Amen Thompson's gonna

1582
01:12:29,319 --> 01:12:30,920
stick in the starting line up the rest of the year.

1583
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,239
I know a lot of it will depend on, like

1584
01:12:32,359 --> 01:12:33,920
Jabari Smith's availability.

1585
01:12:35,359 --> 01:12:40,119
Speaker 2: I just think Jabari Smith's shooting is if you're you know,

1586
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:42,439
it's the same old thing of like you've got shanng

1587
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,319
Goon as the five who's knocking a space. You gotta

1588
01:12:45,319 --> 01:12:48,119
get it somewhere. You can't unless it's Aman Thompson playing

1589
01:12:48,159 --> 01:12:50,399
point guard. And Fred van Vliet is somewhere else you

1590
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,399
can get another shooter out there. I just think that

1591
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,079
the shooting makes it tough, you know, And and this

1592
01:12:55,239 --> 01:12:57,720
isn't a great Rockets offense as it is, so I

1593
01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:00,960
could I would assume Smith, we'll get that job back.

1594
01:13:01,039 --> 01:13:03,199
But but Thompson fits the criteria you're talking about, like

1595
01:13:03,279 --> 01:13:05,319
that guy closes on a lot of teams and starts

1596
01:13:05,399 --> 01:13:06,920
on a lot of teams. Uh.

1597
01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: Did consider Ti Jerome a little bit case is not

1598
01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:10,680
nearly as strong as it was last time?

1599
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:11,159
Speaker 2: Did oh?

1600
01:13:11,239 --> 01:13:14,560
Speaker 1: For Caris LeVert nikil Obxander Walker ended up being my

1601
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,840
toughest cut for this. I think Malik Beasley deserves some

1602
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,479
love here, and so does Santi Aldama of Memphis. I

1603
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,600
did have Scotti Pippen Junr in my long list as well.

1604
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,600
Did you have anybody else that you looked at? And

1605
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,920
what we both looked at Buddy healed last time? Guess what?

1606
01:13:28,159 --> 01:13:31,520
Speaker 2: I didn't look at him, not looking at him so much.

1607
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,159
I don't know if you mentioned carrislvert is another guy

1608
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:36,960
I think, OK, I was.

1609
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,279
Speaker 1: Gonna ask you if you think that this guy would

1610
01:13:39,279 --> 01:13:41,039
have finish your list. Let me see if he's on

1611
01:13:41,119 --> 01:13:41,439
it first.

1612
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,640
Speaker 2: No, I so I had my short list was was Hunter?

1613
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:50,199
Was I think probably my toughest cut LeVert Na Aldama

1614
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,159
As you said, everyone, I thought of Aldama, Beasley. I

1615
01:13:53,239 --> 01:13:56,079
didn't really think about ty Jerome just because I was

1616
01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:58,439
kind of like lukewarm on the sustainability of that last

1617
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,199
time around. Good good, really good bench player. But I

1618
01:14:01,279 --> 01:14:02,600
don't have him on my long list.

1619
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: If he comes back and starts playing soon, and given

1620
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,479
how he was playing at the time of injury, and

1621
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,479
now that he's coming off the bench, is there enough

1622
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:12,680
time for Jonathan Minga to enter this discussion?

1623
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 2: Won't you have? How many games will he have missed?

1624
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,279
Speaker 1: I think he's at like it might be fifteen or something.

1625
01:14:19,279 --> 01:14:22,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I think he's gonna I assume he's

1626
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:25,960
gonna start when he comes back, if he but that's

1627
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,560
been an incorrect assumption basically throughout his whole career, other

1628
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:31,199
than like a few isolated stretches.

1629
01:14:31,279 --> 01:14:33,199
Speaker 1: So he's played in thirty two games, So that number

1630
01:14:33,239 --> 01:14:35,640
is actually higher than I thought. And the Warriors so

1631
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,159
far this season have played he's only missed ten.

1632
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he could be on like a down

1633
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,680
ballot pick, like he's not going to threaten Peyton Pritchard.

1634
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,960
I'll tell you that. And like maybe Iman Thompson starts

1635
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:47,840
too much and he falls off for that reason, and

1636
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,800
so you might have to think about him for third.

1637
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,680
But like who knows, man, who knows what's why. Maybe

1638
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,720
they'll just not rush him back in tank.

1639
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,199
Speaker 1: I don't know his agent should push for it, because

1640
01:14:58,199 --> 01:15:01,479
the Warriors clearly don't care about this season anymore or whatever.

1641
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,920
And so having continue to come off the bench average

1642
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:05,520
like thirty points be game coming off the bench, win

1643
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:06,920
the sixth Man of the Year award, and then there's

1644
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:12,640
your negotiating leverage agency. Everybody's favorite award is up next

1645
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,680
Coach of the Year. If you're looking for diversity, all right,

1646
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:17,920
don't turn to Grant and I.

1647
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 2: So did you have so I'll just say it because

1648
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:23,840
they're the same. I don't know if it's my turn

1649
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,439
or not. Jenkins won Kenny Atkins into Tehran lu three,

1650
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,600
which neither of us had on our ballot. Last time.

1651
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,560
We both had a similar like epiphany, I suppose independently

1652
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,359
because we didn't talk about this one. I think did

1653
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:38,680
you or I have Atkinson first? Last time? I think

1654
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:39,319
maybe I did.

1655
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: I can actually look while you're while you're vamping.

1656
01:15:43,239 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 2: The reason, I'll just talk about who I have now

1657
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:46,520
at first.

1658
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: And so we actually both had no You had Atkinson first,

1659
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:51,760
I had Jenkins first last time.

1660
01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:54,560
Speaker 2: So I guess then I'm the one that has to

1661
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:59,399
explain it. So Akinson is done an incredible job, like

1662
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,000
things were now in Cleveland that didn't work before, and

1663
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:05,199
the team is gonna win the East by a million games.

1664
01:16:05,239 --> 01:16:07,840
It seems like I just think Jenkins has had like

1665
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,880
kind of more to deal with. Like they're starting two

1666
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,399
rookies pretty often. They're missing John Morant every other night

1667
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,840
so far, like you're having to I mean, this is

1668
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,720
where you credit him. It's not like you're having to

1669
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,520
do this, but you've you've implemented this offensive system that

1670
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:26,600
nobody else is playing and it's really working. And to

1671
01:16:27,039 --> 01:16:28,920
have the balls to do that, like on a team

1672
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:33,039
with real expectations coming into the season, is that's significant.

1673
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:35,439
I think, like it's not just how good of a

1674
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:37,359
motivator are you and where do you rank on offense

1675
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:39,399
and defense, It's like the decisions you make that are

1676
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:43,359
not easy ones to like establish an identity, like that's

1677
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:45,680
kind of wishy Washy, But that's that feels like a

1678
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,960
big deal to me. So I think, and you know,

1679
01:16:48,079 --> 01:16:50,000
you don't have Gig Jackson until like a couple of

1680
01:16:50,039 --> 01:16:52,560
days ago. You just don't have there's a bro like

1681
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,880
Jake Laavia is good Santie all Damas in the Six

1682
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,439
Man Conversation. You're just getting everybody to play their best.

1683
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:00,920
So I think I feel really good about having him first,

1684
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,199
and I think I'm probably gonna leave him there for

1685
01:17:03,319 --> 01:17:05,239
the balance of the year unless something crazy happens.

1686
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:07,399
Speaker 1: Well, they're gonna get too healthy, and then that's gonna

1687
01:17:07,399 --> 01:17:08,640
be their downfall. He's not gonna know what the.

1688
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 2: G because they're like, I'm definitely good enough to be

1689
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,039
in the rotation, and how come I'm the twelfth guy? Now?

1690
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you could go with Atkinson

1691
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:19,920
or Jenkins have a pretty strong case here. Low thing.

1692
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:21,279
I don't know if it was an epiphany, but the

1693
01:17:21,319 --> 01:17:24,159
Clippers just seem to be getting more experimental and some

1694
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,119
of the stuff he's done with like kind of doubt,

1695
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:29,399
excuse me, diminishing certain player roles, increasing sort of some

1696
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,000
of the lineup usage there. I don't know if they've

1697
01:17:32,039 --> 01:17:34,039
necessarily been creative enough on offense, but I also don't

1698
01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:35,680
know if they have the optionality to be creative.

1699
01:17:36,279 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 2: That's the whole case for him to me is it's

1700
01:17:38,039 --> 01:17:39,680
just like coming into the season, we thought they were

1701
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,000
gonna be terrible, and they've figured He's figured out how

1702
01:17:43,039 --> 01:17:45,520
to make James hard for most of the year, James

1703
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,640
Harden and some defenders. And I don't know if we

1704
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,319
credit him for Norm Powell because where's the offense without him,

1705
01:17:50,359 --> 01:17:52,560
But like he figured out how to make a really

1706
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:54,880
like kind of a mess work pretty well.

1707
01:17:55,159 --> 01:17:57,279
Speaker 1: And you know the couple games I've seen from Kawhi Leonard,

1708
01:17:57,359 --> 01:18:00,920
like those minutes, the spacing completely he was He's on

1709
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:02,560
the court, and so that's a credit to Kawhi Leonard.

1710
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,239
But it's also like, oh, this is what Tyler can

1711
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:07,439
do if you give him actual NBA offensive personnel to

1712
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,319
work with other coaches that you want to take through that,

1713
01:18:10,399 --> 01:18:12,039
there's probably long list of the names that you could

1714
01:18:12,079 --> 01:18:12,439
have gone with.

1715
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Immiodoka I think has been kind of

1716
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:17,960
just we might have had him top three at some point.

1717
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,079
Joe Missoula, even though the Celtics are I think the

1718
01:18:21,159 --> 01:18:23,359
Celtics are just like half asleep at this point, not

1719
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,199
necessarily on him, Mark Dagnault. Those are the big three

1720
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:28,680
for me. I guess Jamal Moseley, But I don't know

1721
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,399
what to do with that team as injured as it's been.

1722
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:33,079
You know what, anybody else you thought about?

1723
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,039
Speaker 1: Tell them, well, they are taking more threes in Orlando.

1724
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:39,039
But like the fact that they can't play faster, I

1725
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:41,479
just don't understand, like they will they okay, they forced turnovers,

1726
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:43,640
the'll get out in transition, you grab a live board,

1727
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,039
fucking run. I don't understand that team. Just this is

1728
01:18:46,079 --> 01:18:48,560
like year three of me being infuriated by this. So

1729
01:18:49,039 --> 01:18:50,439
he was certainly on the list, I think. I don't

1730
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,319
think I had anybody else that I threw on that.

1731
01:18:52,359 --> 01:18:54,159
I mean Mark Dagnol of course could just be in there.

1732
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:55,159
I don't know if you mentioned him.

1733
01:18:55,319 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: Obviously. A guy who fell off, probably unfairly, is Jordi Fernandez. Like,

1734
01:19:01,159 --> 01:19:03,359
I don't know what you They were good when they

1735
01:19:03,399 --> 01:19:04,920
weren't supposed to be and they didn't have a lot

1736
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:07,119
of talent. Now that they're talented, they're not.

1737
01:19:07,359 --> 01:19:09,119
Speaker 1: They's like they go toe to toe with the Knicks,

1738
01:19:09,239 --> 01:19:10,600
and I know the Knicks like to make everything more

1739
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,359
difficult they go toe to toe with them on Tuesday Night.

1740
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,479
So I yeah, there's I think, does this Coach of

1741
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,359
the Year ballot? I think ours last year was like

1742
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:20,960
we went like fifteen names deep, and does it feel

1743
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,279
like it's shrunk a little this year to where there's

1744
01:19:23,279 --> 01:19:24,199
like more of a delineation.

1745
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,399
Speaker 2: I've never had an easier time like just saying, oh,

1746
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:29,520
this is the top three, and I don't think fourth

1747
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,840
is particularly close. So yeah, I think I think that's

1748
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:32,399
pretty clear.

1749
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,279
Speaker 1: Now we're on to everyone's favorite award. Good the most

1750
01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:36,640
important one executive of the year.

1751
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:42,199
Speaker 2: All right, So I had Sam Presty one, Sean Marks two,

1752
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:43,760
and Zach Cleman three.

1753
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,319
Speaker 1: I thought the contract, you're really you're digging it, huh.

1754
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,319
Speaker 2: Just a huge fan. So I think I had Mark's

1755
01:19:50,359 --> 01:19:53,199
first last time, and I've flipped it just partly because

1756
01:19:54,279 --> 01:19:56,880
you know the logic that it's just way harder to

1757
01:19:57,039 --> 01:19:59,800
sort of add pieces on a really good team and

1758
01:20:00,039 --> 01:20:02,399
manage those types of decisions than it is to just

1759
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,439
like some team comes to you with a crazy ass

1760
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,000
offer and you say, yep, I will take all those picks.

1761
01:20:08,039 --> 01:20:11,439
For McHale Bridges, you know, he hired Jordi Fernandez that's great.

1762
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,319
But it's like the things that that the Nets have

1763
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:16,520
done well were just sort of like presented to them

1764
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,880
and it's like, yeah, anybody's gonna say yes to most

1765
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:21,760
of that, right, Like So I don't know. I think

1766
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:23,239
he's still number two for me. So it's not like

1767
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:24,720
he's done a bad job. I think he's done a

1768
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:27,760
great job. I think Presty just had the harder, like

1769
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,880
the heavier lift, the just tougher machinations, you know, and

1770
01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:34,159
you're talking about like a trade we kind of got

1771
01:20:34,199 --> 01:20:36,439
wrong on the last pod, like just little moves that

1772
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:38,840
allow you to go get Isaiah Hartenstein. That's kind of

1773
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,199
a last year thing, but that's a factor picking aj Mitchell.

1774
01:20:42,319 --> 01:20:43,840
That's he's hurt.

1775
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,119
Speaker 1: But like, wait, that's the case, is that it's and

1776
01:20:46,119 --> 01:20:47,439
I might have sent his last time, but at some

1777
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,039
point this season I found myself saying, the thunder really

1778
01:20:50,079 --> 01:20:52,159
got they let them get AJ Mitchell. And the fact

1779
01:20:52,199 --> 01:20:54,159
that we're saying that when he did all this other

1780
01:20:54,199 --> 01:20:56,159
stuff on a team that's that good in aj Mitchell,

1781
01:20:56,399 --> 01:21:00,199
Mitchell's getting rotation minutes. It's over. Like it's just and

1782
01:21:00,359 --> 01:21:02,399
I agree with your point on everything, just how his

1783
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,159
job is harder. And the thing we got wrong for

1784
01:21:04,199 --> 01:21:07,560
anyone who cares, I did not include Vasa Michic going

1785
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,560
to Charlotte as part of that Gordon Hayward trade. So

1786
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:11,960
that lopped off more money for okay see, and it

1787
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:14,720
set them up to more easily go about their offseason again.

1788
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,319
Isaiah Hartenstein, So I apologize for I'm just making mistakes

1789
01:21:17,359 --> 01:21:20,199
left and right over the past couple of weeks. Shame

1790
01:21:20,279 --> 01:21:23,600
on me. I have Nico Harrison three instead of climbing

1791
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:27,600
is a really good choice. Daryl Morey is not here

1792
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,000
notably that is would you predicted that at the beginning

1793
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,039
of the season. But so for Nico Harrison with me,

1794
01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:33,720
and it's about to maybe be put to the test.

1795
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:35,520
I know maybe you wanted Naji Marshall to be more

1796
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,640
efficient from three, but like the hand he was dealt

1797
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:41,720
heading into the offseason, and you turned it into like

1798
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,720
no cap flexibility and you lose Derek Jones Junior, Tim

1799
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,800
Hardaway Junior and seconds and you get back Quenton Grimes,

1800
01:21:48,119 --> 01:21:51,640
Klay Thompson and Naji Marshall just like a home run.

1801
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,800
I know he's not playing as well right now, but

1802
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,159
Spencer didn't with he like was given him really good

1803
01:21:56,279 --> 01:21:59,560
minutes at one point in Dallas, and we'll see kind

1804
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:01,840
of how this ros. I think some people will move

1805
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,239
away from him because Dallas' record is meant right now.

1806
01:22:04,319 --> 01:22:06,439
I think because of all the injuries, I'm curious to

1807
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:08,680
see if they'll go get another wing defender at the

1808
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:10,680
deadline or is it now? Oh, can we figure out

1809
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:11,880
a way to get a different type of big with

1810
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,800
the Derek Lively injury being out two to three months?

1811
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:17,399
Which is I mean, if it's three months and we're

1812
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,720
in January, we're talking the end of April.

1813
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a playoff impact thing for sure. Yeah, I

1814
01:22:23,039 --> 01:22:24,680
will see what he does. I mean just home runs

1815
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,600
last trade deadline, so it's pretty easy to be confident.

1816
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 1: And I did, by the way, I did have him

1817
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:32,319
penculed in his three for a minute, But then I

1818
01:22:32,359 --> 01:22:34,840
thought I was letting the injuries in Dallas. I think

1819
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,720
in the suspension of Nachie Marshall, I guess like permeate

1820
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:41,079
my thinking too much. Trajan Langdon in Detroit, we both

1821
01:22:41,119 --> 01:22:42,960
did not love what they got back for Tim Hardaway,

1822
01:22:43,079 --> 01:22:46,000
like giving up Quentin Grimes. They got seconds. Tim Hardaway

1823
01:22:46,039 --> 01:22:50,199
Junior has helped them this year. He has signed Malik Beasley,

1824
01:22:50,279 --> 01:22:52,399
who is in the sixth Man of the Year discussion

1825
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,520
and has been super helpful for them. And by the way,

1826
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,720
Kate Cunningham people kind of poo pooed the max extension

1827
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:03,439
and I think his decision was tougher than I mean,

1828
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,039
Edvan Mobley, Scotty Barnes, like, Okay, those decisions are kind

1829
01:23:06,079 --> 01:23:08,359
of easy, and maybe Kake Cunningham was easy, but he

1830
01:23:08,399 --> 01:23:10,960
didn't draft Kay Cunningham, so committing to Kay Cunningham and

1831
01:23:11,039 --> 01:23:13,159
theory is harder, and that choice is now paying off.

1832
01:23:13,199 --> 01:23:15,319
So I think that he that front office deserves some

1833
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:16,000
love here too.

1834
01:23:16,319 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that's a good inclusion. I think

1835
01:23:18,039 --> 01:23:22,439
Lawrence Frank is another one, just you know, watch like

1836
01:23:23,239 --> 01:23:26,880
Chris Dune, Derek Jones Junior. Like, I guess some of

1837
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,600
it felt like, well, what else are we going to do?

1838
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,600
Not not bringing Paul George back looks pretty good. Not

1839
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,760
taking on bad money and assign and trade to move

1840
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:34,920
Paul George looks pretty good.

1841
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1842
01:23:36,079 --> 01:23:38,079
Speaker 2: The Clippers are just a big surprise, and we got

1843
01:23:38,199 --> 01:23:39,359
to find credit someplace.

1844
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think, yeah, the Clippers are the Are

1845
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,640
they the biggest surprise? Of the season. I guess you

1846
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,399
could make a case for Detroit. But the Clippers are

1847
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,039
in the West and a playoff team, right and with

1848
01:23:51,319 --> 01:23:54,319
so they lose Paul George, no Kawhi, and they don't

1849
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:58,159
who is their second best players like Norman Powell has

1850
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:01,680
like all star credentials, basics. It's just a way out

1851
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,800
of I think prior to the season, had you told

1852
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:05,920
me that this is where we be at at the

1853
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,760
halfway mark, I'd been more apt to believe what you

1854
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:10,800
say about the Pistons than the Clippers. Oh.

1855
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we buried the Clippers. I think everybody kind of did.

1856
01:24:15,039 --> 01:24:17,439
But that's going to be our biggest over under miss

1857
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,039
I'm sure. Yeah, Like, we'll do check in with that

1858
01:24:20,199 --> 01:24:22,000
over the All Star break. People have been asking for it.

1859
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:25,279
I mean, I want to give people a reason to

1860
01:24:25,319 --> 01:24:26,439
listen to the end of season one.

1861
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how much is going to change from

1862
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,319
the mid season, but we will do an update in

1863
01:24:29,399 --> 01:24:32,479
advance of the All Star Break. Our second bonus segment

1864
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,439
of the week. You're welcome or I'm sorry, I don't know.

1865
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:38,600
We're going to talk about the Sun's Jazz draft pick trade.

1866
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:40,920
Super fascinating. If you're watching on YouTube, you can already

1867
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:44,199
see the details of it, but to run through it,

1868
01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:46,239
We're not going to exchange pleasantries this time because I

1869
01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,840
know Grant is doing fantastic. The Suns traded their twenty

1870
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:51,960
thirty one first round pick to the Utah Jazz for

1871
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:54,600
a twenty twenty five first round pick. It is the

1872
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,880
least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah, twenty twenty seven first

1873
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,399
round pick least favorable Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah, and a twenty

1874
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:06,319
twenty nine first round pick least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah.

1875
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,319
And so to break that down even more, the Suns

1876
01:25:09,319 --> 01:25:13,119
traded one first round pick for three least favorable first

1877
01:25:13,199 --> 01:25:16,640
round picks that both convey more imminently. And I've seen

1878
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,880
people say like it opens up all of their drafts.

1879
01:25:19,039 --> 01:25:21,119
It just gives them the ability to trade three first

1880
01:25:21,159 --> 01:25:21,640
round picks.

1881
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:25,359
Speaker 2: That's what it does. Sorry, yeah, I it was shams.

1882
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,399
Let's just say it, like, use the word unlocks their draft.

1883
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,039
What do you mean, sir by unlocks their draft? That

1884
01:25:31,399 --> 01:25:32,319
doesn't do anything.

1885
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 1: You can't You can't trade twenty six, twenty eight, and

1886
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,760
twenty thirty now because you just traded your twenty thirty one.

1887
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:41,119
So what did you You unlocked the ability to trade

1888
01:25:41,119 --> 01:25:43,920
three first round picks, which you couldn't do before. You

1889
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:44,640
could trade one.

1890
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,399
Speaker 2: That's what you did, and got three new picks. That's

1891
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:50,199
what you did. It doesn't change like I mean, like,

1892
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,239
what can you trade like portions of swaps in the

1893
01:25:53,359 --> 01:25:56,159
even years. I like, there's nothing. I don't I don't know.

1894
01:25:56,239 --> 01:25:57,640
Maybe we'll look like idiots, but like you.

1895
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:00,560
Speaker 1: The trade because they've already like eight times swap. You

1896
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:02,600
can trade twenty six and twenty eight now which you

1897
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,680
couldn't do before. But it's just it did unlock stuff,

1898
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:07,720
but it did not unlot. And if they want draft

1899
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:10,279
picks and all of those drafts, okay, fine, You've now

1900
01:26:10,319 --> 01:26:12,760
had the ability to have draft picks get cost controlled talent.

1901
01:26:13,079 --> 01:26:15,199
And I think we'll start there before we get into

1902
01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:18,199
the The Utah Jazz tide at all is more fascinating

1903
01:26:18,199 --> 01:26:20,159
because I think we have this discussion, our discord a

1904
01:26:20,159 --> 01:26:23,079
little bit leads to the larger conversation about well, what

1905
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:25,479
is the value of trading for these distant first round

1906
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,600
picks while giving up this many guaranteed First I want

1907
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:30,159
to talk about that, but we need to start with

1908
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:34,279
the Suns. What do you think this poor tends for them?

1909
01:26:34,319 --> 01:26:36,840
And I think there are three different routes to go

1910
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,279
and correct me before you choose one. If you have

1911
01:26:39,319 --> 01:26:41,520
a fourth one, it's they really just want to get

1912
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,800
cost control talent in here. Probably the least likely one.

1913
01:26:45,119 --> 01:26:47,800
They're trying to gear up for Jimmy Butler trade, and

1914
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:51,920
the idea of trading to multiple first round picks is

1915
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:54,720
more palatable if you're a Miami team. Let's say that's

1916
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:56,640
still going to try and win after trading Jimmy Butler,

1917
01:26:57,279 --> 01:26:59,760
or are they just trying to load up to make

1918
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,039
maybe not the Jimmy Butler move, but now you're able

1919
01:27:02,119 --> 01:27:04,359
to get let's say you can trade use of Nurkic,

1920
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,119
get off that money, well also getting back a player

1921
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:09,640
of value because you have the first round equity to

1922
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:13,000
sweeten that package. Which one do you lean more towards

1923
01:27:13,079 --> 01:27:15,359
or is there an avenue that I didn't mention that

1924
01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:16,960
you think they might exp well, I.

1925
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 2: Mean we can just rule out the like they're pretty

1926
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:23,880
interested in getting, you know, the twenty seventh, thirtieth pick

1927
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,439
in the draft, you know, and then the twenty seventh

1928
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,279
or the twenty fifth or whatever it ends up being

1929
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,600
in those least favorable situations. That ain't it. I think

1930
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,600
it's Butler number one. It's just kind of that is

1931
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:38,199
just I was trying to think, like, can you remember

1932
01:27:39,119 --> 01:27:43,920
the last move that seemed to be this obviously like

1933
01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:47,640
a precursor to another trade, you know what I mean?

1934
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,119
Like that, this is so obviously to me they have

1935
01:27:51,319 --> 01:27:54,039
something they want to do, they need to get stuff

1936
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:56,159
to push it over the finish line, and this is

1937
01:27:56,279 --> 01:27:58,960
that stuff, like and I think it's most obviously going

1938
01:27:59,039 --> 01:28:02,520
to be Butler. But like to your point, the like

1939
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,199
one B is now you can find now you can

1940
01:28:05,279 --> 01:28:08,000
incentivize someone to take on Nurkic, or you can attach

1941
01:28:08,079 --> 01:28:10,079
this to Grayson Allen or whoever else you want to

1942
01:28:10,119 --> 01:28:13,680
move to try to improve the roster. It just feels

1943
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,479
like the Butler thing though, right, And this will be

1944
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,439
stale as hell if it doesn't happen.

1945
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:21,600
Speaker 1: It does, But I'm also wondering if now did were

1946
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:23,600
they from there? And the reporting is that they haven't

1947
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:25,359
gone to Bradley be O with a trade proposal yet,

1948
01:28:25,399 --> 01:28:28,199
And I think that's smart because why he already knows

1949
01:28:28,199 --> 01:28:30,560
about it, But why make that official if you haven't

1950
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,640
already unless something's in place. Were they the ones that

1951
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,000
didn't think that giving up the twenty thirty one first

1952
01:28:36,079 --> 01:28:38,279
round pick was worth it? Because then in which case

1953
01:28:38,359 --> 01:28:40,920
is it's something like, oh, you give up twenty five

1954
01:28:41,319 --> 01:28:44,000
and twenty nine to get Jimmy Butler, and then you

1955
01:28:44,079 --> 01:28:46,960
can turn around and would I'll just use Detroit as

1956
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,239
an example. Would they take on nurkic send you back

1957
01:28:50,319 --> 01:28:53,479
someone in exchange for that twenty twenty seven first round pick?

1958
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,600
So did this enable them to maybe do two things,

1959
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,399
which would be get Jimmy Butler and then also get

1960
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,159
off use of NRDIC is money?

1961
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that's it. I guess yeah, then it's both

1962
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:08,199
of those first two options that you that you brought up.

1963
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:10,880
I guess it. I don't want to take us too

1964
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,760
far afield, but like we would agree, wouldn't we that

1965
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:17,079
the twenty thirty one pick is just subjectively more valuable

1966
01:29:17,319 --> 01:29:20,520
than obviously any single one of these least favorable picks

1967
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,960
that they're getting back. So it's like, well, why wouldn't

1968
01:29:23,119 --> 01:29:26,119
say Miami just want that twenty thirty one as opposed

1969
01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:28,159
to if say you're trading all three of these to

1970
01:29:28,239 --> 01:29:30,920
get in a Butler deal, Why wouldn't it or even

1971
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,119
if it's and if it's only two, why wouldn't Miami

1972
01:29:33,199 --> 01:29:35,680
want an unprotected twenty thirty one as opposed to like

1973
01:29:36,279 --> 01:29:37,560
a couple picks that are going to be in the

1974
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:39,359
late twenties or mid twenties at best.

1975
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,239
Speaker 1: I think there are two reasons, one of which is

1976
01:29:41,239 --> 01:29:43,560
pat Riley's one hundred years old and probably been thinking

1977
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,399
about twenty thirty one. The other one would be because

1978
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:50,319
they're trying to stay competitive without Jimmy Butler. Are they

1979
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,560
more interesting getting either some immedia talent or just more

1980
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,079
immediate picks that they can flip, or there's a third

1981
01:29:56,119 --> 01:29:57,920
or fourth team involved that are bringing them someone back

1982
01:29:57,960 --> 01:29:59,960
they're taking on beat On, you're getting a better player

1983
01:30:00,119 --> 01:30:03,520
or better fitting player than Beal. I also think so

1984
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,600
let's talk about the value of the picks first, and

1985
01:30:07,039 --> 01:30:09,640
the Jazz trade in one of these knowing it's going

1986
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,279
to be number thirty, So they've traded a thirtieth overall

1987
01:30:12,319 --> 01:30:15,680
first round pick and then two least favorable first round picks, where, yes,

1988
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:17,880
you could say we don't know where those teams are

1989
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,920
gonna be twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty nine, but not

1990
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,119
only is at least favorable, it's at least favorable of

1991
01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:27,239
three teams, and so the odds of I would argue

1992
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,439
all of those picks will be twenty or later. And

1993
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:32,760
so while you could say that maybe Phoenix will figure

1994
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:34,840
it out and they'll be good by then, you make

1995
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:36,760
this trade because you think you're getting a lottery pick,

1996
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:39,079
is how I would frame it in twenty thirty one. Now,

1997
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:41,560
if you're Utah, I think you also look at it

1998
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:45,079
this way. We have multiple like there are only certain

1999
01:30:45,119 --> 01:30:47,199
teams I think could do this. You have multiple picks

2000
01:30:47,239 --> 01:30:49,560
in those years, you're not keeping all those first anyway,

2001
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:52,359
so why not take the bigger swing. If another team

2002
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:54,439
did something like this where they didn't have multiple first

2003
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,359
round picks, you're not only depleting your asset well, but

2004
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:01,159
you're increasing the variance of the out going pick while

2005
01:31:01,239 --> 01:31:03,000
doing so. And so I do think that the twenty

2006
01:31:03,119 --> 01:31:05,760
thirty one that will end up being the highest pick

2007
01:31:06,079 --> 01:31:08,399
that ends up conveying in this draft, whether it's worth it.

2008
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,359
Could it be number eighteen instead of number ten, sure,

2009
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:13,439
but I think that's why Utah makes it. And I

2010
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:15,920
know this was some of the points that ran the discorders.

2011
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:17,800
You could point to some trades where it's, well, those

2012
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:19,920
Clippers' picks don't look like they're gonna be that good,

2013
01:31:20,079 --> 01:31:23,560
going to OKC. My pushback on that would be one

2014
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:25,600
we're kind of still waiting on the out out ears

2015
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,399
like twenty six and twenty seven. But I think when

2016
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:30,840
the difference to me here is the Sons. You're trying

2017
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:34,000
to maximize a window where Kevin Durants already aged thirty six,

2018
01:31:34,359 --> 01:31:38,199
Bradley Beal's already a net negative, and when the Clippers

2019
01:31:38,279 --> 01:31:40,760
made that trade, I don't know that perception of a

2020
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:45,319
trade has changed more maybe annually, but just in the

2021
01:31:45,399 --> 01:31:48,720
time that has passed since, because any if I remember correctly,

2022
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:50,760
I would have said that probably, oh, the Clippers just

2023
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,680
opened their title window for the next decade, so who

2024
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,960
cares about those picks? And this isn't like this is

2025
01:31:56,039 --> 01:31:58,359
more similar to like what Boston was able to get

2026
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:00,439
out of Brooklyn, And like I I think it'll be

2027
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,239
more fascinating and maybe revisit trades like what the Knicks

2028
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:06,640
did with the Nets, maybe what the Timberwolves did with

2029
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:09,560
Rudy Gobert, not so much what the Cleveland Cavaliers did

2030
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,359
with Donovan Mitchell because like he was younger and you

2031
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:16,079
also have these younger players around him. So I do

2032
01:32:16,279 --> 01:32:18,439
think the twenty thirty one pick will end up being

2033
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:22,359
Like I do, I think the Jazz specifically inoculated themselves

2034
01:32:22,399 --> 01:32:26,359
against like enough high variant outcomes here to wear. I

2035
01:32:26,359 --> 01:32:28,960
would be shocked if we don't look back and say,

2036
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,960
relative to where those other three picks landed, that it

2037
01:32:32,079 --> 01:32:34,920
wasn't at least worth trying to get twenty thirty one.

2038
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:37,680
And finally, because I know you're rich and to say something, huh,

2039
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:40,560
future trade value is part of it. Like as of

2040
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:42,359
right now, the Jazz can point to and say, look

2041
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:44,479
at this thing could be anything. Look at how bad

2042
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:46,840
the Suns are gonna be. So that pick for the

2043
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:49,560
next two or three years is definitely going to have

2044
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,359
more value than any pick that you sent out.

2045
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:55,600
Speaker 2: I think it's I definitely have seen so Kevin Pelton,

2046
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,039
for one, basically gamed it out that if you just

2047
01:32:59,239 --> 01:33:02,359
sort of you can assign and it's like an expected

2048
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:06,000
value to different draft picks, and the cumulative expected value

2049
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:09,600
of the three outgoing picks from Utah amount to like

2050
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,039
a number six overall pick, which you'd say, well that

2051
01:33:13,159 --> 01:33:15,119
twenty thirty one. That's I mean, is it going to

2052
01:33:15,199 --> 01:33:18,680
be better than six? Like, I guess not. I'm not

2053
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:23,319
persuaded by that. I think from Utah's perspective, specifically, this

2054
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:26,199
is not a free agent destination. What you need to

2055
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:29,439
do is draft the best player on your team. The

2056
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:31,720
best way to do that is to get an unprotected

2057
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:34,640
first round pick from a team who's latter half of

2058
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,479
this decade. I don't care like how good they are

2059
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,319
next year. The year after, it's gonna be a mess

2060
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:44,279
because they're gonna be old and bad and inflexible. Now

2061
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,399
the most we'll talk about the most interesting element to

2062
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,039
me of all this, which involves Houston. But if you're

2063
01:33:50,039 --> 01:33:52,880
in the Jazz, the upside of that twenty thirty one

2064
01:33:53,039 --> 01:33:54,960
is just like, I don't care if some of those

2065
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:58,800
lesser you know, those those other picks outgoing are like

2066
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:03,000
eighteen or twelve or whatever, Like, I want the shot

2067
01:34:03,079 --> 01:34:04,760
at the pick that might get me the guy that

2068
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,640
is a cornerstone, because I'm not signing that guy. I'm

2069
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:10,479
never gonna sign that guy. There's only one way. Maybe

2070
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:12,239
you can trade for it. And I would argue that

2071
01:34:12,319 --> 01:34:15,520
that twenty thirty one has more trade value than three. First,

2072
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,479
that'll probably be in the twenties, and one's definitely way

2073
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,720
late in the twenties. So utaw side of it. As

2074
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:23,840
long as you've got the stomach and the ownership and

2075
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,520
the management to be like we're gonna wait seven years

2076
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:30,159
or six years to pay this off, then it's it's

2077
01:34:30,199 --> 01:34:32,520
a no brainer. But it makes sense for the Suns too,

2078
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:35,960
because they just need tools to pull off trade or

2079
01:34:36,159 --> 01:34:38,079
you know, print trades parenthesis s.

2080
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 1: So they're the consumment, like we need to see what

2081
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,800
happens at this day because if they do nothing, like

2082
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:45,439
if they just sit on these picks.

2083
01:34:45,319 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 2: No chance, there's no chance, No, I can't imagine.

2084
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 1: But just to wrap up on the Jazz, wouldn't that

2085
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:53,560
like re kind of enforce the value of having jobs

2086
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:55,439
to ability or maybe the value of ownership in the

2087
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:58,199
NBA where it's you are willing to wait because if

2088
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,039
Danny Ainge is so secure and his position, his legacy,

2089
01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:03,960
whatever his status in Utah, there are only because you

2090
01:35:04,039 --> 01:35:05,880
might have said, like, well, the only other team that

2091
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,079
I feel like would have definitely done something like this

2092
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:10,800
would have been the Thunder because Sam Presty is that

2093
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:12,880
type of cat there might be other teams. You could say, well,

2094
01:35:13,239 --> 01:35:15,159
the Spurs are secure enough in their place whatever, But

2095
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:19,960
just the sheer accumulation of picks for Utah and Okac

2096
01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:22,079
that are not their own, and then you can combine

2097
01:35:22,119 --> 01:35:25,159
their own with there's the value in being able to

2098
01:35:25,279 --> 01:35:28,880
look at the long game while still like playing. Like

2099
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,079
in the Thunder's case, there's value they can play all

2100
01:35:31,159 --> 01:35:33,640
the games, but Utah, you're not good enough as now

2101
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:35,840
like now, so there might have been why would we

2102
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:37,640
give up a more imminent pick, because that's just another

2103
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,239
bite at the apple. I really think that this reinforces

2104
01:35:40,279 --> 01:35:43,239
the value, especially for teams that have all these extra

2105
01:35:43,319 --> 01:35:46,119
first round picks in the same years, of just either

2106
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:48,960
job security or ownership's willingness, at least in the moment,

2107
01:35:49,039 --> 01:35:50,720
because this could all flip on its head in years

2108
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:53,600
to say we're willing to accept that the crown jewel

2109
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:57,680
of this trade is not going to convey for six

2110
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,159
seven years, or again even being innovative and saying or

2111
01:36:01,239 --> 01:36:03,279
it's one we hope to use in a trade well

2112
01:36:03,319 --> 01:36:04,920
before then because we're good enough to do so.

2113
01:36:05,359 --> 01:36:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think like I am receptive to the

2114
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,399
bites at the apple argument. Because the draft is a crapshoot,

2115
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,840
and especially going that far out, you just have no idea.

2116
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:17,239
But it's like that an unprotected pick from a team

2117
01:36:17,319 --> 01:36:20,159
that to me has among the bleakest futures in the league.

2118
01:36:20,199 --> 01:36:22,800
That's like, that's like a that's like a gourmet like

2119
01:36:23,039 --> 01:36:25,720
chocolate cake, Like I want to buy that that. I

2120
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:28,279
want that one, bye, I don't want like just a couple,

2121
01:36:28,399 --> 01:36:30,600
Oh maybe this one. I don't need bites at the

2122
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:33,520
apple when I have that on the table. So what

2123
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:35,279
I really want to talk about, unless you have more

2124
01:36:36,399 --> 01:36:40,239
to clean up here, is so Phoenix, Like I want

2125
01:36:40,279 --> 01:36:42,479
to start by saying, like I would never run a

2126
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:44,880
team like Phoenix has run this team over the last

2127
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:47,960
several years. I think it's like this is now no revelation,

2128
01:36:48,119 --> 01:36:52,359
deeply shortsighted, like reckless, particularly in light of the new

2129
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:56,800
rules that ownership and management like you can't claim surprise,

2130
01:36:56,960 --> 01:37:00,439
like you knew enough and you did enough stuff after

2131
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:03,600
the rules were in place to where like this is

2132
01:37:04,359 --> 01:37:06,720
nobody else is doing this. That's like a red flag.

2133
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:11,199
I feel like, so it's reckless, it's crazy, But like

2134
01:37:12,159 --> 01:37:15,119
if you know you've got this bailout where you still

2135
01:37:15,159 --> 01:37:18,039
have Kevin Durant, you still have Devin Booker, You're probably

2136
01:37:18,079 --> 01:37:21,880
gonna have Jimmy Butler. And I'm not saying their value

2137
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,079
goes in that order. I think Booker clearly has the

2138
01:37:24,119 --> 01:37:26,840
most trade value. You know, there's a team out there

2139
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:29,479
that's got a bunch of your own future firsts that

2140
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:32,359
might want a guy exactly like Devin Booker or even

2141
01:37:32,399 --> 01:37:35,000
Kevin Durant. I don't know if this goes bad, and

2142
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,279
who knows, I don't know what that even means. Like,

2143
01:37:37,399 --> 01:37:39,399
the Sons are gonna be really interesting the rest of

2144
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,079
this year, assuming they did all this to get Jimmy Butler.

2145
01:37:43,319 --> 01:37:45,319
If and when this goes bad, you can still send

2146
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:47,760
Devin Booker to the Rockets and get your drafts back.

2147
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:50,279
And you're kind of like, well, that was fun. We

2148
01:37:50,399 --> 01:37:53,560
can We're still okay, right, Like isn't that to me?

2149
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:55,560
That's the most interesting element of all of this is

2150
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,560
there is like a ripcord to pull for the Suns

2151
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,439
that like, I don't know, maybe maybe maybe this is

2152
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:05,119
something we see repeat, like this pattern of of well

2153
01:38:05,119 --> 01:38:07,439
old get nuts for a little while and then we'll

2154
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:09,359
just go try to get our picks back from the

2155
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:12,520
team that has them, Like, isn't that like that's a

2156
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:15,119
wild element in this whole, in this whole thing from

2157
01:38:15,159 --> 01:38:16,199
Phoenix's side, right.

2158
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you had skeeded this that you think that

2159
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:21,119
Phoenix definitely had to check in with Huston.

2160
01:38:21,159 --> 01:38:24,359
Speaker 2: We'll be like, hey, like you know the guys still

2161
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:26,479
like Booker right, like a couple of years from now,

2162
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:27,399
maybe if.

2163
01:38:27,319 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 1: You're the worst case scenario, like if you're the Suns

2164
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,079
and the Rockets are uniquely equipped to do this, if

2165
01:38:33,119 --> 01:38:35,399
you just said, give us back control of all the

2166
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:37,079
picks of ours that you have and we'll give you

2167
01:38:37,159 --> 01:38:39,880
Kevin Rant and Devin Booker, sure you're sending out so

2168
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:43,039
it's Fred van Fleet and then it's Jalen Green and

2169
01:38:43,159 --> 01:38:44,800
like if you need any other salary, make it work,

2170
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:47,359
you have some of those non guarantees. I'm sure there's

2171
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:49,359
Rockets fans that would push back against that. There are

2172
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:51,319
Rockets fans that seem to think that Jalen Green is

2173
01:38:51,359 --> 01:38:54,640
better than Devin Booker dearon Fox that like the whole nine.

2174
01:38:55,039 --> 01:38:56,600
I guess maybe he could get there one day. It

2175
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,359
is certainly not now, I don't think. But having that

2176
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:03,359
out for insofar as it's actually available, I think does help.

2177
01:39:04,279 --> 01:39:07,920
But but I guess I have two questions here. I'm

2178
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:10,600
gonna ask the first one about these other teams I

2179
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,079
do have. I agree that I probably wouldn't be doing

2180
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:16,600
what Phoenix has done. The Cardinal Sin would still be

2181
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:18,600
the Kevin Durant trade, though, and I don't know if

2182
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:21,359
we were close enough to say, like, and even with

2183
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:23,319
the Bradley Beal stuff, you always should have known how

2184
01:39:23,359 --> 01:39:25,920
restrictive the no trade clause would be. But like, I

2185
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,640
don't like. I think teams are still kind of realizing, oh,

2186
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:32,239
what these new rules are gonna do. There's always unintended consequences.

2187
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:34,079
So it's not that I give them a pass, but

2188
01:39:34,199 --> 01:39:36,840
I understand the decisions they made at every turn. Now

2189
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:38,800
when I have made every one of them, I think

2190
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:43,119
they're crown failure. And I still believe that the outcome

2191
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:45,560
would not have changed. They should have negotiated harder with

2192
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,960
Brooklyn for Kevin Durant. Matti Shpiak came in, wanted to

2193
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,279
make a splash. I get it, it's Kevin Durant. He

2194
01:39:51,319 --> 01:39:53,680
didn't want to go anywhere, but Phoenix dare him to

2195
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:56,840
open up his list at that point. But I wanted

2196
01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:00,920
to ask you, though, when we have the Lakers and

2197
01:40:01,039 --> 01:40:05,279
the Warriors acting like cowardly Charlatan's when it comes to

2198
01:40:05,359 --> 01:40:08,439
optimizing windows around aging stars. I have a level of

2199
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:10,479
respect for the Suns. I want to clarify something because

2200
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:13,039
discord user be Rich pointed out something that I think

2201
01:40:13,119 --> 01:40:16,119
was a fair critique. I understand relative to the market

2202
01:40:16,239 --> 01:40:18,279
right now, while I'll use the Warriors as an example

2203
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:21,760
why the Warriors aren't really excited to give up all

2204
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:25,680
their draft picks for player X, you have now said, though,

2205
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:29,359
over the course of multiple years, Pascal Siakam's not good enough,

2206
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:32,439
Ojan Andobi's not good enough. We're gonna do these half

2207
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:35,079
assed pursuits of Paul George and Lowry market and who

2208
01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:38,680
are somehow good enough even though Pascal Siakam wasn't good enough.

2209
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:40,720
You don't want to get involved in a Zach Colvine

2210
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:44,119
sweepstakes that might cost you Andrew Wiggins an apick. I

2211
01:40:44,199 --> 01:40:47,039
understand Andrew Wiggins has been good, but you're acting like

2212
01:40:47,159 --> 01:40:50,439
cowards and the Lakers have and it's fine. You don't

2213
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,000
get to tell your fan base, though, that you're still

2214
01:40:52,039 --> 01:40:54,479
trying to optimize. You don't you don't get to sell that,

2215
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:59,680
and so the Lakers might be more they're bigger offenders

2216
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:02,039
because just like they don't have the legacy titles with

2217
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:05,680
this Lebron James Anthony Davis Corp. To lean on. But

2218
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,079
when you have those teams that should be acting with

2219
01:41:08,199 --> 01:41:10,640
more urgency for the past couple of years, and then

2220
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:12,680
you have a team in Phoenix that do we agree

2221
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:13,239
with every move?

2222
01:41:13,359 --> 01:41:13,399
Speaker 2: No?

2223
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 1: Is it reckless? Maybe, but like to be there and

2224
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,760
to do that year over year, to try like maximizing

2225
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,039
the timeline of these players that are ready to win. Now,

2226
01:41:24,399 --> 01:41:25,920
I do have a level of respect for it.

2227
01:41:27,319 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 2: I can't I get it, like, if the point is

2228
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:32,439
to try to win a championship, the Suns are trying

2229
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:35,760
harder to do that immediately than a lot of other teams.

2230
01:41:36,279 --> 01:41:36,640
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2231
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 2: I think we just like I think fundamentally disagree on

2232
01:41:39,039 --> 01:41:41,119
the Warriors side of it, and the fact that I

2233
01:41:41,359 --> 01:41:43,600
view the Lakers a little differently makes me check my

2234
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:48,359
bias for sure. But for Golden State, I think I

2235
01:41:49,039 --> 01:41:52,920
don't know that I would classify the marketing or George

2236
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:55,600
pursuits as half asked. I think I think I can

2237
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:57,520
see why you would say that to me, it was

2238
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:02,159
more we have a pro we think is it makes

2239
01:42:02,359 --> 01:42:05,079
sense for us to pay for players of this quality,

2240
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,119
and we're not going over that. And the hope is

2241
01:42:08,159 --> 01:42:10,279
that at some point the price we're willing to pay

2242
01:42:10,399 --> 01:42:12,720
for a player of a certain level of quality like

2243
01:42:13,159 --> 01:42:16,239
gets both sides to say yes. I don't know that

2244
01:42:16,319 --> 01:42:18,239
the Warriors are in better shape if they give up

2245
01:42:18,279 --> 01:42:20,319
what it would have taken to get Paul George. I

2246
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:22,000
don't know that they're in better shape if it would

2247
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,000
have been Lauri markin In. I certainly don't think whatever

2248
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:26,760
it would take to get Jimmy Butler gets them to

2249
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:30,279
the level of Memphis, OKC. Houston. Like, they're just not

2250
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:33,920
the same species of team like as those so like

2251
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:38,119
I do I get why people and why you bristle

2252
01:42:38,279 --> 01:42:42,119
at the idea of we're trying to maximize Steph's prime

2253
01:42:42,239 --> 01:42:46,079
and just by not doing anything, you know, it feels

2254
01:42:46,079 --> 01:42:47,800
like they're saying that and then they're not doing anything

2255
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:49,359
or they're pretending to do something.

2256
01:42:49,479 --> 01:42:52,279
Speaker 1: They've essentially I think if they've essentially I feel like

2257
01:42:52,279 --> 01:42:55,119
they're telegraphing when Giannis becomes available, we'll be in I

2258
01:42:55,159 --> 01:42:57,399
guess Johannis could force his way there, but you're never

2259
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:59,880
going to have the best package for him. I guess

2260
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:01,720
you now you have more picks to offer than as

2261
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:05,239
like the Lakers for sure. But I just again, it's

2262
01:43:05,279 --> 01:43:08,359
more about the past actions to where how many players

2263
01:43:08,399 --> 01:43:11,479
have they decided like they weren't good enough to do

2264
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:13,439
this and like they have the twenty twenty two titles,

2265
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:15,960
So I actually understand it. I just hate the way

2266
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,760
that the message is being conveyed. It's superficial, it's fake,

2267
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:21,800
and I don't know the one thing I will push

2268
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:24,079
back on you, I don't know how you don't consider

2269
01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:26,560
the lowry marketing pursuit half ass when it's like, well

2270
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:29,800
we don't really want to give up multiple firsts or pods,

2271
01:43:30,039 --> 01:43:32,159
like all right, I think, well, I.

2272
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:34,960
Speaker 2: I know, I think I think if it's if it's me,

2273
01:43:35,359 --> 01:43:37,680
it's this is me, so it's not them. I think

2274
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,960
you're looking at how much better does market in make us?

2275
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,319
Is that an like what level of team do we

2276
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:46,880
become with marketing at the number that's going to take

2277
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,720
to keep him? And I think they correctly concluded like

2278
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:53,800
not good enough. So like I think I think that

2279
01:43:54,399 --> 01:43:56,399
it's a really hard argument to make if you're like,

2280
01:43:56,479 --> 01:43:58,319
we're just waiting for your honest because it's like, well

2281
01:43:58,359 --> 01:44:01,119
you're proud, then that's you're gonna be way forever. Probably.

2282
01:44:01,239 --> 01:44:04,199
So Like I think, if if I could get on

2283
01:44:04,319 --> 01:44:07,199
board with you about one aspect of this, it's that

2284
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:10,239
they are not being the warriors are not being direct

2285
01:44:10,359 --> 01:44:13,439
maybe about what they really intend to do, which is

2286
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:16,800
I think, make sure that there's not a gross bottoming

2287
01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:20,800
out or like bleak half decade. Like I think inside

2288
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:23,039
they all know this is fucking over as like a

2289
01:44:23,119 --> 01:44:26,600
contending outfit, and they don't want to be really bad

2290
01:44:26,960 --> 01:44:29,399
if they try to go make this into a contender

2291
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,119
and fail and then have to deal with the outcome

2292
01:44:32,199 --> 01:44:34,680
of that. I think there in a way, it's like

2293
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:38,800
almost like there's an unrealistic level of ambition because what

2294
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:41,720
they're trying to do is like have it both ways,

2295
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:44,079
which has been an issue for this organization with two

2296
01:44:44,119 --> 01:44:47,720
timelines and stuff. They're like, we're gonna call it lip service.

2297
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:52,760
If you want, We're gonna like explore you know, no brainer, Yes,

2298
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:56,319
we'll take that guy, trade options which won't materialize. We're

2299
01:44:56,399 --> 01:44:59,520
gonna not fire all our bullets. We're gonna hope that's

2300
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:02,520
enough to like keep fans in the seats and keep

2301
01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:05,119
Steph happy enough, and then when it's over, we're still

2302
01:45:05,159 --> 01:45:07,600
gonna have a full clip, like we can actually build

2303
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,079
a good team again. I think that's really what's happening.

2304
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:12,960
And but a team is never gonna say, hey, we're

2305
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:14,920
gonna kind of float for a couple of years. Guys

2306
01:45:15,119 --> 01:45:16,560
still show up though, and watch us.

2307
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 1: I guess I just don't understand. I want to spend

2308
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:19,600
more time in the words. I guess you just don't

2309
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:22,680
like a Levine case. If you're if you're concerned about

2310
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:24,840
keeping the slate clean, you can probably get zach lavine

2311
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:26,760
for this year's first round pick end salary. And if

2312
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:28,399
you're saying, well, we can't get rid of Andrew Wiggins,

2313
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:30,880
Andrew Wiggins doesn't matter, then to your big picture, you're

2314
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:32,600
gonna have a higher seiling with zach lavine. And so

2315
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,319
I think there's been a lack of commitment to even

2316
01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:38,199
finding middle ground options, where's oh, we'll give up seconds

2317
01:45:38,239 --> 01:45:39,000
for Dennis Shrewder.

2318
01:45:39,399 --> 01:45:42,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think they just don't want So let's

2319
01:45:42,279 --> 01:45:44,800
maybe the tie it back to Phoenix. Phoenix is real

2320
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:48,479
comfortable with what could otherwise be termed as reckless moves

2321
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:50,920
like call them bold if you want, or like high

2322
01:45:51,079 --> 01:45:54,920
high risk, high reward behavior. This Warriors team is just

2323
01:45:55,079 --> 01:45:58,199
not they're they're just more that's just that's not the

2324
01:45:58,279 --> 01:46:00,800
way that they're being run. And I think I don't

2325
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,760
know the Sun's the fallout of this Sun's thing maybe

2326
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:06,640
instructive and maybe it'll be like, yeah, maybe you should

2327
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:08,640
just go for it, because who knows what can happen, right,

2328
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:10,039
I think that's a possibility.

2329
01:46:10,520 --> 01:46:13,359
Speaker 1: While they're probably obligated to do this, but is there

2330
01:46:13,399 --> 01:46:14,920
a level of do you think that they're good enough

2331
01:46:15,159 --> 01:46:16,840
or would have the ceiling enough with Jimmy Butler that

2332
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,680
if this is the reason that I'm because if it's

2333
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,359
the time, like are they sending It's so hard to

2334
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:25,840
know without understanding what the outcome is. But did they

2335
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:27,560
do this saying they were going to send to all

2336
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:29,800
three picks just out and that's how they get Jimmy Butler?

2337
01:46:30,159 --> 01:46:31,520
Or is it like I said, where they're kind of

2338
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:33,479
staggering it, where we're figuring out a way to get

2339
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:35,960
Jimmy Butler Wall So maybe lopping off a contract like

2340
01:46:36,039 --> 01:46:38,119
a use of nurkice that we don't want it a

2341
01:46:38,199 --> 01:46:38,840
separate trade.

2342
01:46:39,039 --> 01:46:42,439
Speaker 2: I think again, initially I would have said, oh, this

2343
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:44,880
is just for Butler. Miami said we want three first,

2344
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:48,000
go figure out how to do it. But but in

2345
01:46:48,079 --> 01:46:50,920
that in that scenario, I think again, pat Riley's age

2346
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:52,199
is the thing. If I'm the heat I want the

2347
01:46:52,239 --> 01:46:54,039
twenty thirty one. If that's on the table, I don't

2348
01:46:54,039 --> 01:46:56,760
want these three other picks. So it does seem maybe

2349
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:59,560
like the Suns are saying, we'll send you to We'll

2350
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:01,800
use another one to move Nurkic and we get better

2351
01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:04,600
in ways that go beyond Jimmy Butler being added to

2352
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:07,640
the team. I think that's a possibility. I think that

2353
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:08,640
the maybe.

2354
01:47:08,479 --> 01:47:11,680
Speaker 1: That's the outcome. Sorry, does that change your perception of

2355
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:12,640
this trade a great deal?

2356
01:47:13,119 --> 01:47:15,600
Speaker 2: It depends on what happens with that other pick. The

2357
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:18,119
hypothetically is going out with Nurkic or whoever to get

2358
01:47:18,159 --> 01:47:19,039
a better place.

2359
01:47:19,279 --> 01:47:23,359
Speaker 1: You're not detroits not giving you, Stuart, And if it's.

2360
01:47:23,359 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 2: If you come out of this as the Suns with

2361
01:47:25,039 --> 01:47:28,319
Isaiah Stewart and Jimmy Butler, and I'll take back a

2362
01:47:28,399 --> 01:47:30,600
lot of what I said, and no Nurkic, I'll walk

2363
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:33,159
back a lot. I mean, because that's that would be phenomenal.

2364
01:47:33,239 --> 01:47:35,560
I just think I think the only certainty is that

2365
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:40,039
this is clearly uh a Jimmy Butler precursor. I think

2366
01:47:40,079 --> 01:47:42,239
then the question is is that all which is what

2367
01:47:42,319 --> 01:47:44,079
we where we started with this? And I guess we'll

2368
01:47:44,159 --> 01:47:45,000
we'll just see.

2369
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:48,600
Speaker 1: Uh with that you're ready to take us out of here?

2370
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Thanks everybody. Let us I mean, this is a

2371
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:53,640
really interesting trade and this may be stale in ten

2372
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,079
seconds after the Suns actually do something with these picks.

2373
01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:59,560
Let us know what you think. Let us tell us

2374
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:01,920
what you think the plan is or which which of

2375
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:05,720
the plans proposed seems most likely. As always, if you're

2376
01:48:05,720 --> 01:48:09,359
watching this on YouTube, comment, subscribe there, leave us my

2377
01:48:09,479 --> 01:48:11,840
soul thumbs up, leave us good reviews, five stars. Wherever

2378
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,560
you're listening, rate review, subscribe, all that usual stuff, Tell

2379
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,159
your friends, tell your enemies. Shouts Frank nol Kina apologies,

2380
01:48:18,239 --> 01:48:18,760
Jared Allen