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Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the

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to it any way you wish. I really appreciate the

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support everyone gives me. It keeps a show going. It

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allows me to basically put out an episode every day now,

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and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate.

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I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two

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So thank you for the support. Head on over to

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Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com, Forward slash Support and

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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekingano Show for the first time. We've

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been on streams before together, but not on this show.

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Hunger the di merchant.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing, Hunger, great man, it's a great

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pleasure to be on the show for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming on, and I apologize for

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asking you to come on and discuss a subject for

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your first appearance that is so yeah. Well, I'm sure

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people can look at the title of this and know

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that this is, uh, this is going to be one

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of those talks. It's going to be very personal to you.

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So well, let's if for people who don't know you,

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why don't you explain why this is a personal discussions.

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Speaker 2: Here right, So if anybody doesn't hasn't seen me on OGC,

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Pony Express Radio or other streams, I've been a guest on.

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My name's Hunger. I am a Elebanese American born and

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raised in the States, but descendants of two Elibanese parents.

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My father escaped the Liberty Civil War in the seventies,

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so that's how we got here. My mother stayed for

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the entirety of the war there and then married. My

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dad came came to America. But yeah, as as everyone

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who follows the news and our favorite democracy in the

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Middle East knows, there's a big there's a big conflict

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going on, and I haven't. I have the interesting experience

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of I've i've I've lived in the Middle East. I

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wasn't born there, but I lived in the Middle East

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as a teenager for about eight years, you know, very

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very long time, very formative experience, and so I know

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the region pretty well. And I met and I've met

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a lot of people at that time, like I've met

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I've met Palestinians whose grandparents or great grandparents were kicked

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out of Palestine. I've met, you know, Syrians who left

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during the Civil War in Syria like this. This is

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a very complicated, you know, tense political region, but I

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mean it's a very it's always a very interesting part

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of the world that most people don't know a lot

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about except you know, outside of you know, the g

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WA and oil.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unfortunate that when most people hear about this

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part of the world, it's uh, it's happening to do

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with America's greatest ally, you know, saying, hey, they they

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hate us because you know of who we are, and

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they're they just they exist to kill us. And yeah,

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I guess we've seen a lot of that lately. So

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how have you have you been handling what's been going.

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Speaker 2: On personally, I I really try not to. I really

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try to keep my you know, GEO Paul hat On

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when you know, thinking thinking about like what's happening, thinking

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about the wider trends in the war and what is

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the situation. But I mean, obviously I have friends and family,

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a significant amount of friends and family still there who

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are struggling. Thankfully, you know, people have reached out to

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me personally and asked. Thankfully, I have nobody in my

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personal you know circles that is close to the border

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with Israel. You know, Lebanon is very diverse, you know,

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spread out country. It's very mountainous country actually, so I

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personally do not know anybody that's that lives very close

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to the border with Israel. However, in Beirut, the capital city,

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the capital is being bombed obviously, but again it's only

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being bombed in specifically, not only definitely, not only, but

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majority bombed in Sheite areas, which Husbala is a Shite organization,

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So she Ete areas are getting the bront yeah, getting

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most of the brunt of the bombings. So my family

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is safe. I don't know anybody who's died personally. The

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big thing that's happening there is actually the refugee crisis,

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because a lot of Sheite Lebanese are you know, heading

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heading up north and going into different areas of Lebanon

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to escape the bombing and to escape the violence. So

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in my in my in my family village, you know,

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back home, a lot of people have open up their

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doors to refugees from the South. I should also mention

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I'm an Orthodox Christian. Lebanon has a very significant percentage

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of Christians. It's the heighest in the Middle East by percentage,

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and it's about you know, a quarter to thirty percent

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of the country as Christian, whether that's Catholic, Orthodox, a

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little bit of Protestant, you know, a lot of other

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mixes in between. So that's kind of that's kind of

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what's happening immediately in my circle. It's like, yeah, there's

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a huge refugee crisis, and people are trying to be

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very charitable and open up their doors and you know,

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spread resources around to help people in this time of need.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain, I mean, just a an overview of

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what the why this beef? I mean, we know that

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has Belah and the Ideaf of clash before we know.

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I think a lot of us know about the nineteen eighties,

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the bombings of Beirut, the blowing up of the marine

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barracks there for no reason at all. I mean, the

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Marines were there as peacekeepers, right, you know, it's just yeah,

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I mean, I don't even get that. Obviously, that's being

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very sarcastic. I actually have a friend who he knows

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people who were stationed there. He knows people who were there,

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and they've told them about the stories of what they

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were doing there. And if anybody thinks that they were peacekeepers,

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they they yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I don't mean, I don't mean to share on

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anybody who who served, you know, I totally I totally understand.

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I nobody I know has any beef personally with any

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American they met, whether they're in the military or civilian

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or not. It's really the anti americanism in the Middle East.

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It's not personal. It's extremely how do I say, it's

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extremely political. It's extremely like as a result of government policy.

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You did America. And I don't mean you that, that's

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not not you personally, America or us G. I like

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I like to say us G because that's not it

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has nothing to do with what we're doing, because we're

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both American. We don't agree with anything that our government

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is doing. What us G has done in the Middle

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East is create ship show after ship show after a

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ship show that's caused enormous amounts of backlash.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and in many such cases around around the

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whole region. What different? And just talk about Libya all night?

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But all right, let's let's stick let's tax to Elebanon.

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You want me to put that map up? I think

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right now it's a good time talk about talk about

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the you know this, the Sheite what what looks to

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be a Sheite stronghold? Where where are we here?

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Speaker 2: The terrorist state?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, here we go. All right, let me

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see if I can blow this up just a little

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bit without making it at a screen. It's not gonna

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blow up, so all right, so you have it on

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your end and you can just explain what we're seeing here,

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because when you look at this graph and you see

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basically how this is, it shows by color where there's Shia,

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where Shia, Sunni, Jruz Alawai, Maronite, Greek, Catholic, Greek Orthodox,

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Armenian Orthodox, and Catholic I mean, this is like a

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patchwork quilt that you would find in a thrift store

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in the South that somebody's grandma made from a leftover

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yarn that she had.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh basically. Yeah, So if for anybody interested,

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the red, yellow, and orange are all Christian groups, which

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is not an insignificant part of the country, and there's

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also a lot of people who live that's the red, yellow,

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and orange sections are all either Marrinite Orthodox or you know,

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Eastern Greek or Greek Catholic, which is you know, like

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it's like, how do I say? It's the Greek Catholics

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are their eastern righte Catholics basically, and so it's a

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very diverse country. As you can see, the green are

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the Sunni areas, and the purple are the Sheites areas,

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which is of big concern for us because of the

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current conflict with Israel, and the blue area is our Drews.

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And in all honesty, nobody freaking knows what the Drews are.

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They don't understand what they are themselves.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: They're religious leaders like their clerics don't tell them their religion.

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It's actually like an incredibly well kept secret, like they're

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not allowed to know what the tenets of their own

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religion are. But it's basically like an ethnosectarian, esoteric like

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patchwork of like Muslim and Christian beliefs. Basically, Yeah, but

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asking Drews what what is? What is Drusism? Like they

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have no fucking idea.

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Speaker 1: What that sounds like? Aloite too? ALOI is is kind

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of odd. I've asked that before people and you always

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get the same kind of very mystical kind of answer

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to that.

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Speaker 2: The only answer I ever get from the alloy whites

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is we're Muslim, but we're allowed to drink alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then you look at us, then you look

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at someone like a Sod who's an alo white, and

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you're like, that kind of looks like a white guy.

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But yeah, all right, no, definitely.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: So on this map, just just just that, just.

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Speaker 2: On that point of like the whiteness of uh, just

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just on that point, like the whiteness of the Meds.

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I I just call myself Mediterranean. When people think of Arabs,

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they think of like, you know, sand and words, which

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is not entirely inaccurate. But the Mediterranean basin has been

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a petri dish for four thousand years, like, we have

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natural blondes and redheads. I have red heads in my

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own family who are pale. You know, they if you

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didn't know they were from this area of the world,

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you would assume they were like Irish or something, or British.

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You would have no idea except for the accent. Just

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on that point, I just wanted to say that, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, Europe is weird too. I mean I have Eastern

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European and Southern European and my family and I'm brown hair,

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brown eyes. My brother I have a brother, my youngest

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brother's blonde hair, blue eyes. So it's just odd oddness

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all around, all right. So looking at this map, Okay,

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so the IDF has been making incursions into Lebanon. Where

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on the map have they been making the incursions?

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Speaker 2: And so you're going to get a kick out of this.

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The incursions that are happening are obviously in you know,

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the furthest south where the entire purple is down there.

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But surprise, surprise, the Israelis have not gotten pasted two

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three kilometers into the entire country, which is absolutely nothing

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that it's been a worse performance on the ground, at

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least compared to two thousand and six and two thousand

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and six, they took like ten fifteen kilometers of territory

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and before the invasion even started, the Israelis said, We're

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going to invade ten to fifteen kilometers inland and create

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a Cordon sanitaire buffer zone so that Husbala rockets are

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out of reach of Israel. Total failure, total, absolute, total failure.

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This is not the best map to go into, but

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like I can show you on a Google map of Lebanon,

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like how far they've gotten into It's like two kilometers

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or less, which is like nothing. So yeah, on the

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on the ground at least, the military campaign has been

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a failure. By air, you know, I mean by air,

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they're causing huge amounts of destruction all.

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Speaker 1: Over the country. Yeah. I was on one of the

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telegram channels this morning. It's we're a renou arum and

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they're basically saying that the IDF was pulling out today.

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The IDF was pulling out a southern Lebanon because they

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I saw one report where they had taken seven hundred

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casualties and sixty dead. And yeah, like the report was

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saying is they can't make it, they can't get in

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five kilometers in So what I don't see what their

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point is of even trying to make trying to do

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this incursion. I mean, unless it's to punish, unless it's

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to punish the population that's there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's it's definitely that. But it's like I

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have a hard time and even though even though these

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people are you know, neighbors and eternal enemies, like I

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have a genuinely hard time understanding their level of you know,

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paranoia and you know other psychological ticks they have. But

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it's like they knew what were they expecting to happen?

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Were they expecting to drive all the way to be route,

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which is like sixty seventy kilometers north of the border,

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Like were they expecting to take over half the country?

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What about the other she had areas that are like

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all the way in the north, all the way in

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the northeast, Like those areas are Husbala areas as well.

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Are you going to invade two thirds of the entire country?

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I mean, I genuinely don't know what they were trying

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to do. It's like the same thing with the same

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thing with ten seven, Like same thing with October seven,

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which which we've talked a lot about, and everyone has

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been talking a lot about for the past year. It's like,

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why did why did they do what they did? They

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knew this was not going to end the way they

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thought it would and these people aren't just going to

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go away. And it's not for lack of trying. The

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Israelis have tried everything they had they could to wreck

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Gaza and displace two million people out of Gaza. That

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they didn't work. That didn't work at all. I mean,

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they're still over a million Palestinians in Gaza. The ethnic cleansing,

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I mean they killed you know, almost one hundred thousand people,

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between fifty and one hundred thousand people, but there's still

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a million Palastinians still there. They haven't been ethnically displaced,

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which is which was israel stated goal. Israel wanted to

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resettle Gaza with you know, exclusively Israeli Jews, which didn't work,

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and then they launched as they opened the second front.

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I mean, Hsabelah is the one that opens the second front.

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And people ask me this as well, It's like, what

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is what is the goal of Husabola? And I keep

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saying this because this is like you have to take

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these people at their word, because Aboua's goal is not

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to destroy Israel in this campaign. They're wider objective is

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to destroy Israel. But in this campaign itself, their objective

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was to stop the war in Gaza by opening up

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a second front, and the war in Gaza did not start.

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But by boxing Israel in on two sides, you know,

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they they've caused absolute panic and chaos in Israel. On

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top of the also the Iranian support and MISSIF strikes

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that have been happening as well. Like, Israel is in

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a completely fucked situation, and it's all of their own doing,

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It's all of their own making. And I can't reason

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my way into thinking, why would you put yourself in

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this situation?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking on that telegram page. It was eight

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thirty eight am this morning Central time. Israeli Defense Force

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to be going to slow withdrawal from southern Lebanon.

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Speaker 2: All right, So there's two but so yeah, and in

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these two areas, in these two areas, in these two areas,

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there's so there's four brigades or or four divisions that

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are active on the front line. I heard two of

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those divisions being withdrawn. The other two I'm not so

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sure about, but that that was the information I heard.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, So looking at the map now,

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you said from from the border down at the bottom

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by how's that is that pronounced bail?

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Speaker 2: So it's it's okay, don't bj anyway. So in in

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two thousand and six, Vintage was taken over by the Israelis.

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The town was was captured by Israel in two thousand

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and six. It's been over a month since the starts

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of the Israeli campaign. They have they are they have

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not taken the city. They are still in the outskirts.

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There's a there's a very famous town a kilometer south

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of bentaje Bed called Marzayun, and that even that town

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has not been taken over by the Israelis, which is literally,

302
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you know, eight hundred meters from the border. I mean

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that that's nothing like you're eight hundred meters away from

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home base, and you can't take this one town of

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like five thousand people when it was taken over in

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two thousand and six. Actually, so this is a much

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worse performance than even I expected compared to the first

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war that happened in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if I look up to Bay Route, Let's go

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to Bay Route, because that's where when this all started,

311
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the bombings, the massive bombings by the by the Israelis happened.

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If I look at the colors on Bay Route, it

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looks like it's almost all soony with just a couple

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little stripes of Shia. Is that correct? Uh?

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Speaker 2: Not? Not really so. I mean if if you look

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at the tippy if you look at the tippy top,

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Beirut is huge. Beirut takes up like a much wider circle.

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So that purple right south of Beirut is the southern suburbs,

319
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which is where all the sites are, and the eastern

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suburbs are vastly like ninety percent Christian suburbs. So yeah,

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00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,759
at the tip, at the tip of Beirut is mostly

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Sundy's West West Beirut is a Sunni district, East Beirut

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is a Christian district, and South beir Root is a

324
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Shiite district. And that's just how the demographics played out

325
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because of migration and economics and you know history. So

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in south and South Beirut, the southern suburbs is taking

327
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an absolute beating by the Israeli Air Force like I don't.

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I don't even have to show you. You can just look

329
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,200
this up. Anywhere you'll see buildings. You'll see like twelve

330
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story apartment buildings just collapse from you know, a bomb

331
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striking the base of the base of the apartment building.

332
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And during the during during this the assassination of the

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Husbela leader, Hassan no Sorella, there was a six, there

334
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was a six. There, there was an apartment complex of

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six buildings where the Israelis dropped one hundred and sixty

336
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thousand tons of explosives on the six building, on the

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six building complex which was housing the tunnels where Husbela

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was meeting, where the Husbitalo leader was meeting some Iranian officials.

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And I mean those buildings are completely gone, and there's

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a giant, you know, fifty foot crater in the middle

341
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of the city where that building once.

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Speaker 1: Was well were the building had did did the residents

343
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of the building have time to get out or they

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warned to get out? I mean, are here. Here's here's

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a question. Here's a better question. Did the residents of

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those buildings know that those tunnels are there? And who

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meets there?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And no, I mean yes, yes, and no, So

349
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it's hard to if you're not shite, it's very hard

350
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to get this kind of information. And even if you

351
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are she hite, it's very hard to get this information

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if you're not directly associated with Husbula, because for for

353
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all the for all the recent events, Husbula has extremely

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good side, has extremely good opsect. I mean, there's a

355
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reason why they're winning the war in the South. They're

356
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winning the war in the South is because they have

357
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extremely good opsec and they have a lot of room

358
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to maneuver. But in Beroots, which is a very concentrated city,

359
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you're just gonna have like there's spies running all over

360
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the place and Husbola, it's it's hard, it's hard to

361
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get around that. There is there is a huge network

362
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of tunnels. I mean everyone knows this, but no one confirmed.

363
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No one ever saw it themselves that I know of.

364
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Everyone knows there's a there's a huge tunnel network under

365
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,880
Bay Roots, under the southern suburbs. This was known for

366
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decades because that's what Husbobla does. Because the Husbula leaders

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very rarely go above ground because at any one time

368
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they can be assassinated by Israel and they know this

369
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and this is how they live their lives, and the

370
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people around them close to them know this as well.

371
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But like there's not like a hidden civilian population living

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in these tunnels. This is military infrastructure for Husbudlah for

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the purpose of, you know, defending themselves against assassination attempts

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by Israel.

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Speaker 1: What's your opinion of Hesbela.

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Speaker 2: That is a very complicated question. Well, of course I

377
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believe the State Department saying that they're a terrorist organization,

378
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but I have as a Lebanese Christian, I have no

379
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beef with Husbolo because Husbola are not my enemy, and

380
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Husbela has never done anything to the Christian community in

381
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,759
my opinion that deserves any you know, backlash. A lot

382
00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:10,640
of other Lebanese Christians disagree. They don't like Hesbalah, not

383
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,920
because their pro is real, but because they want to

384
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,640
open up to the West. They want to, They want

385
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,400
they want to. They they want to give the State

386
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,920
Department a blowjob, basically, and it's like they know that.

387
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,440
It's like, oh, Husbalar Muslim, their reactionary. They're allied with Iran.

388
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,319
We wanna, we wanna, we want to be open and

389
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,839
European and see the world and have business and do

390
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,640
banking with you know, the rest of the the with

391
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,319
the West, or the or the gay whatever whatever you

392
00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:43,720
want to call it. And there's a lot of Christians

393
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,039
who genuinely believe that. And I know, I know where

394
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:51,079
they're coming from, and I understand why they think the

395
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480
way they think, because they were Western educated, they have

396
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,839
family in the West. I mean, I live in the West,

397
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:03,160
so I I want to complain. But they're wrong in

398
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,640
the sense that it's like you're you're pissing off your neighbors,

399
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,640
your Muslim neighbors who don't like those governments and what

400
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,319
they're doing, and you're inviting in the foreign influence of

401
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,079
very very bad actors. Which is not to say the

402
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,240
other air of states are bad actors. I mean Syria,

403
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:23,039
Syria is a Syria has done many bad things in Lebanon.

404
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,680
Syria is the Also Syria is also the only thing

405
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,359
keeping Lebanon kind of staple at any one point in time.

406
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,920
They've done a lot of bad things in Lebanon. I

407
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,240
can tell you, I can tell you the things the

408
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:36,680
Syrians did to my family during the war. But at

409
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,920
the same time, we need Syria. Like this is not

410
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:42,640
a it's not about my personal desire. It's like, this

411
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,279
is the geopolitical reality. Like we have to be we

412
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,720
have to have extremely close ties to Syria. There they

413
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,319
are our only Arab neighbor. This is a very tough

414
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,599
neighborhood to be and we are a very small country.

415
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,119
The goal of a very small state is to survive.

416
00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:01,720
And the goal of a minority, the goal of a

417
00:26:01,799 --> 00:26:05,000
religious minority or any ethnic minority, is to survive and

418
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,640
not piss off your neighbors. And that's that's that's what't

419
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:09,839
Israel has never learned.

420
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: You make it seem like the Shia or not in

421
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,000
Lebanon or not. The enemy of Christians are the Sunnis

422
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:21,680
in Lebanon the enemy of Christians.

423
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: The Sunnis don't like anybody. First of all, the Soonis

424
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,319
think the sites are yeah, the Soonies think the Sites

425
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:35,160
are heretics, and they tolerate the Christians. But I mean,

426
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,680
if a certain I mean there's been a lot of

427
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,240
radical Sunni groups who have come up in Lebanon and

428
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:44,680
they don't like the Christians either. I mean, Hasbola was

429
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,480
the one kicking Isis's ass in Syria? And who are

430
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:51,640
who are isis massacring in Syria? They were massacring the

431
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,160
Alloites and the Christians and all the minorities, and so

432
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,319
they were We're no friend of Isis, absolutely fucking not.

433
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,039
I mean the enemy of my enemy as my friend.

434
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:05,359
Husbula has never, you know, has never done anything to

435
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,119
attack the Christian community as far as I know, or

436
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,119
at least outside of the Civil War where everyone was

437
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,279
fighting everybody. It was nothing absolutely unique to Husbulah. And

438
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,000
you know, defending the regime of Bashar Assad and protecting

439
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:23,400
the Christians is kind of the most important thing in

440
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,079
my opinion, and they've never the Christians. The Christians are very,

441
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,039
very politically divided in Lebanon, very much fifty to fifty. Actually,

442
00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:36,799
the Sites and the Sunnis are basically one political bloc

443
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,920
who oppose each other. But the Christians are actually divided

444
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,480
fifty to fifty. Half of them to half of them

445
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:45,759
want to be open to the West, and that also

446
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,400
means being an ally of the Saudis, the Qataris, the

447
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,799
Amortis and all the Gulf State puppets of America. Basically

448
00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:58,039
that half of Christians support that siding with Saudi Arabia

449
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,599
and the Gulf States and the West. The other half

450
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,599
of Christians side with Hasabella and Syria because it is

451
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,319
in their best interest of their survival to do so.

452
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,359
Because we're in a very tough region. This is we

453
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,799
don't get to choose who our neighbors are. You know,

454
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,799
you have to make compromises, you have to you know,

455
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:19,559
you have to have you have to have it back

456
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,119
and forth with these people, like you can't ignore who

457
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,599
your neighbors are, and you want to have good relationships

458
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,960
with your neighbors. Just like just like Ukraine and Russia,

459
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,640
Ukraine Russia could have gone, could have gone along very well.

460
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,079
And Syria and Lebanon is very similar to Ukraine and

461
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Russia in many many ways. So I mean, there's a

462
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,319
lot of people in Ukraine who are pro Russian and

463
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,720
who maybe they don't want to be a part of Russia,

464
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,240
but they at least want to be friendly to Russia

465
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:46,200
and not be an enemy of Russia. I have no

466
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,400
reason to be an enemy of Syria. That would not

467
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,279
be good for my people to be an enemy of Syria.

468
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,519
Speaker 1: All right, So I have an important question to come

469
00:28:56,559 --> 00:28:57,799
back to you, but I don't want to ask you

470
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,960
this one before. Before we jump into that because that'll

471
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,279
probably lead us into a new subject. Have you been

472
00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:04,799
to Israel?

473
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: No?

474
00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so you haven't been. You haven't been to Gaza, Okay,

475
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,200
but you said that you have.

476
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:18,599
Speaker 2: Sorry, in interesting story, my grandmother when before Israel was

477
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,240
when Israel was Palestin, My grandmother went to Jerusalem for

478
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:25,039
a Christian pilgrimage and she had a tattoo of across.

479
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:28,799
She got that in nineteen forty six actually, and then

480
00:29:28,839 --> 00:29:31,480
two years later as past nine became Israel. I just

481
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,799
just personal, interesting tidbit.

482
00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: You did say that you've you've known people in Goza,

483
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:42,559
right or from Gaza, or people who've been So I'm

484
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,119
asking I'm gonna ask you secondhand information here, But you

485
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:47,000
do know people who've been there, right.

486
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:50,559
Speaker 2: I know people who have family in Gaza.

487
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,039
Speaker 1: Okay. So I want to ask the same question about

488
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:59,480
Gaza that I asked about Lebanon. How are the Christians,

489
00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:01,920
the Christians that are left there? I mean, I think

490
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,480
they used to be thirty percent Christian and now it's

491
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,039
down into low single digits. How are they treated there?

492
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:11,799
Speaker 2: I mean, like I mean, the Christians, the Christians in Gaza,

493
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,440
who they're not nothing but they're they're they're a negligible

494
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:18,920
portion of the kind of the society. It's like, there

495
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,559
are two million people in Gaza, there's maybe eight ten

496
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,559
thousand Christians. I mean they, I mean they no one

497
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:29,119
no one really bothers them. No one really bothers the

498
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,279
Christians for being Christian, even though there are radical Sunni groups,

499
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
But no one bothers the Christians in Gaza because they're

500
00:30:35,839 --> 00:30:39,880
they're struggling under the same occupation as everyone else. Like

501
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,799
life is not better for the Christians because they're Christian.

502
00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:45,960
They don't have more access to the West because they're Christian.

503
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,200
They're they're living in an open air prison, just like

504
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,920
the other two million Muslims around them. And they have

505
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,359
their own churches and they have their own they have

506
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,759
their own little community. But they're Palestinian. Their culture is Palestinian,

507
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:59,480
their culture, their food is their food is arab their

508
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,000
food is Trainian. And they're they're just like everybody else,

509
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:04,160
except they don't wear the he job.

510
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:10,119
Speaker 1: All right, So you said some things before that could

511
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,480
lead people down a path. You say, ye. Basically, if

512
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:17,519
you're Lebanese, you live in a rough neighborhood, you're surrounded

513
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:21,519
by yeah, you're surrounded by trouble.

514
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

515
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: The way what we're taught here is that Israel is

516
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:32,720
there to try to stabilize that, that they're the stabilizing

517
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,240
force that before Israel, before the Jews went to Israel

518
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,039
and decided that they were going to buy up all

519
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,839
the land. I think we know anyone who knows the

520
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:49,880
real story knows that that's bullshit, but that they they're

521
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,240
the only stabilizing force there, that if they weren't there,

522
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,799
this would just be an eruption of Sunni and Shia

523
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,319
killing each other and killing Christians and YadA, yad. So

524
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:06,680
how does that How does that narrative play for you?

525
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: It's on its face it's wrong. But I'll just say

526
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:17,200
I'll just say this one thing that the grain of

527
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,640
truth in that statement, it's it has nothing to do

528
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:26,079
with the Jews, Okay. The immigrants to Palestine have caused

529
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,240
nothing but more destabilization, more massacres, more terrorism, more. You know,

530
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,200
I don't even have to mention it. You've gone through

531
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,519
this on your show dozens of times. Everyone knows what

532
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,319
happened in Palestine in the thirties and forties, with the terrorism,

533
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,400
the bombings and all that stuff and the consequences thereafter the.

534
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,359
Speaker 1: Grain of truth, and you're like, you're talking about you're

535
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,599
talking about Jewish terrorism, Yeah yeah, o fact, and.

536
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: And and what the State of Israel has done has

537
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,119
done since and right, all the things the state of

538
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,960
the Visual has done since the Lavon affair, the assassination attempts,

539
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,960
the six Wars that started because of the creation of Israel.

540
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,759
But the grain of truth in that statement is that, Okay, yeah,

541
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:14,599
the Middle East was not pretty beforehand. There were ethnic tensions,

542
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,960
there were religious tensions, there were you know, Muslim Christian massacres,

543
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:24,880
but those things, it's not that those events were a

544
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,880
consequence of the Ottoman Empire, the weakness of the Ottoman Empire,

545
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,319
the failure of the Ottoman Empire, and you know, uppity

546
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,359
nationalist movements trying to you know, take over their neighbors,

547
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:41,519
which is not Again, this is a rough neighborhood. It's

548
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:44,000
been a rough neighborhood ever since the collapse of the

549
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:47,319
Ottoman Empire. So you have to kind of make compromises

550
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,640
to keep the peace and not get like Lebanon used

551
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,279
to be a majority Christian state. Okay, in nineteen thirty two,

552
00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:01,000
the population was fifty five percent Christian. Now it's twenty

553
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:04,519
five thirty percent, which is significant. You know, that's almost

554
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,559
a million and a half people out of five But

555
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,519
we're not We're no longer the majority. You know. To

556
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,280
survive as a community, you have to make interesting friends.

557
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that a lot of people would hear

558
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,039
that about the Ottoman Empire, and they would think that

559
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,440
really the best way for to keep peace in this

560
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,880
area is to have a strong overlord, Like if the

561
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,119
Ottoman Empire, you know, demanded order, was very on the ground.

562
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:43,199
I mean, and we can go back in history and

563
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,960
we can talk about Rome, and we can talk about

564
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:50,320
you know, Alexander and a whole host of people who

565
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,280
attempted this. But it would seem to me.

566
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,599
Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't even that, it wasn't even that

567
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,519
long ago. I mean, the Ottoman Empire lasted in the

568
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:04,000
Middle East for five hundred years, and only in the

569
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:08,719
last sixty years of those five hundred were their significant

570
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,800
blood feuds and ethnic massacres. Those four hundred, those other

571
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,639
four hundred and forty years were very strong, stable central governments.

572
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right, well, let's talk about the uh, well,

573
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:31,079
let's talk about our greatest ally, Israel. How how did

574
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:37,159
it start with the tension between Israel and Lebanon. Where

575
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,239
does the genesis of that come from?

576
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: Well, the story of Israeli Lebanese tensions, I mean, first

577
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,920
of all, First of all goes back to nineteen forty eight.

578
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,840
It goes back to the creation of Israel. So when

579
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,039
Israel was founded and the Nakba, which is Arabic for

580
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:03,639
the catastrophe, the display meant of almost a million Palestinian refugees,

581
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,559
the displacement, the displacement of Palestinians from Palestine into the

582
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:13,480
surrounding territories. Lebanon got a. Lebanon received a significant portion

583
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,199
of those Palestinian refugees because it's literally on the border

584
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,199
of Palestine, not surprising, and so from nineteen forty eight

585
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,880
onwards there has been a significant Palestinian refugee population in Lebanon.

586
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,760
And with the creation of the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation

587
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:39,960
Organization and Yasadatifats in the sixties, Palestinians started conducting cross

588
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:44,320
border raids into Israel, you know, for a very noble

589
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,880
cause to reclaim their homeland, which everybody understands. But this

590
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,119
caused Israel to retaliate in Lebanon and it led to

591
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,199
Lebanese casualties. It led to Lebanese people being caught in

592
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,920
the crossfire between the Palestinians in Lebanon and the Israelis,

593
00:37:02,119 --> 00:37:04,280
and a lot of people died in the sixties and

594
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,320
seventies because of Israel attacking Palestinians in Lebanon and against

595
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,480
civilians getting caught in the cost fire. This caused a

596
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:15,679
huge backlash to you know, both sides. The Shiites, as

597
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,679
you can see on the map, which is the entire

598
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,599
proper area down south is where all that is where

599
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:24,079
a huge number of the Palestinians were based out of

600
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:28,239
to attack Israel, and so it was almost eighty to

601
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,519
eighty percent Sheites getting killed as a as collateral damage

602
00:37:34,199 --> 00:37:38,480
in the Palestinian you know, Israeli skirmishes. This caused a

603
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:43,039
huge resentment in the Shiite community and so a lot

604
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:45,639
of them started traveling up north. That is why the

605
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,039
southern suburbs of Beirut received a huge influx of sites

606
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,079
because in the sixties and seventies when the conflict was

607
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:55,840
going on, a lot of sites left the south to

608
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:59,519
move to Beirut to escape. You know, Israeli attacks as

609
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:03,400
a result of Palestinian attacks. That's kind of the animus,

610
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,320
that's kind of the the that's kind of the starting

611
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,440
point of how Husboba came into being. In the sixties

612
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,159
and seventies, Shiites were getting killed by being in the

613
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:16,679
middle of Palestinians and Israelis, and so the sites started

614
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,440
founding their own militias to protect their to protect themselves,

615
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,000
and this happened in the seventies. To think about the

616
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:33,000
Palestinians in Lebanon, they I sympathized with them very much so,

617
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,039
but they also wrecked my country. I mean ironically, the

618
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:44,880
Palestinians started the Lebanese Civil War because the Pastinians were

619
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:48,960
majority Sudani. There were some Christians Palestinians who fled, but

620
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:53,519
because ninety plus percent of the Palestinians were Sunni, it

621
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,360
upset the entire sectarian demographic balance in Lebanon and we

622
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,679
received hundreds of thousands of these radicalized Sunni fighters who

623
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:06,960
you know, were interested in conflict and having a war

624
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:11,440
with Israel. This caused a huge backlash in the Christian community,

625
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,599
and the Christian community started forming militias as well to

626
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,039
protect themselves. From the Pastinians, because the Pastinians were trying

627
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:22,639
to take over Lebanon to be the permanent base of

628
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,119
attacks on Israel. And yeah, surprise, surprise, the locals did

629
00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:29,599
not like being the basis of attack and getting caught

630
00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:33,320
in the middle of these two groups. So this led

631
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,679
to the Lebanty Civil War of nineteen seventy five. It

632
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,639
lasted for fifteen years. It was a Christian Muslim civil war,

633
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,880
but it was actually it was mostly a Christian Palestinian war,

634
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:49,480
with the Sahites and the Drus and the Sunnis also

635
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:56,039
committing massacres against everybody. Like the Sahites committed massacres against

636
00:39:56,039 --> 00:40:00,639
the Palestinians, the Drews committed massacres against the Christian The

637
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,840
Christians committed massacres against the Palestinians. The Sundies, you were,

638
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:08,599
the Lebanese Sunnies used the Palestinians as their you know,

639
00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:14,119
their strong right arm to further their Sunni political interests.

640
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:19,360
And Yasad Adafetz, the leader of the PLO this his

641
00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:23,440
attacks on Israel eventually caused a backlash in Israel, which

642
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,159
led to two invasions of Lebanon, the first ones. In

643
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,559
the first one, in nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, so Israel

644
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:35,480
occupied like maybe again ten fifteen kilometers of southern Lebanon,

645
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,679
which caused more Shiite refugees to flee north and radicalize

646
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:41,760
the Sheiites even more because their land was occupied by

647
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,760
Israel now. And in eight nineteen eighty two, which was

648
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,000
the big invasion, they occupied half of Beirut, They occupied

649
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,840
half of Lebanon, half of Beirut, and they got into

650
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:55,599
a war with the Syrians over eastern Lebanon. And this

651
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,679
was a huge part of the conflict. The Syrians, after

652
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,480
the beginning of the Lebanese Civil War invaded to re

653
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:08,039
establish security. Not really, they just chose side. They from

654
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:10,719
one year to the next, the Syrians would play both

655
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,719
sides of the conflict and try to get the most

656
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,920
out of both sides. Like one year they would support

657
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,559
the Christians and try to stabilize the country. The next

658
00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:22,519
year they would support the Sunnis and destabilize the country.

659
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:27,760
Given the fluctuating, you know, events that Syria was very

660
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,800
much a part of. And so in eighty two, the

661
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,760
Israelis and the Syrians you know, crossed arms and it

662
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,840
was pretty much i would say it was a stalemate.

663
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,159
But I think the Israelis won that exchange in eighty two,

664
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,159
but I mean it was a very bloody It was

665
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:44,639
a very bloody exchange as well. The Syrians have always

666
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:47,440
been the best have The Syrians have always had the

667
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,800
best track record of all the Arab states when it

668
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:57,360
comes to fighting the Israelis. So eventually people, eventually the

669
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,719
conflict settles down in nineteen nine. There is a peace

670
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,199
agreement in nineteen ninety between all the militia groups of

671
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:09,079
all of all religions and they agree to have a

672
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,880
more for They agreed to a new power sharing arrangement

673
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,840
where power shifted from the Christians to the Sundanis and

674
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,679
sites because again, like I said, when Lebanon was created,

675
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,280
it was a majority Christian country and the Christians had

676
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,639
majority political power. The Civil War changed that. The Civil

677
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:32,079
War caused Christians to lose political power in exchange for

678
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:34,800
peace with the Sunnis and with the Sundis basically and

679
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,159
the past Indians. The Palestinian Liberation Organization was actually kicked

680
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:43,280
out of Lebanon by Israel and they fled to Tunisia

681
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:46,280
or or somewhere along that lines until out of fact

682
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,920
comes back to make peace with Israel. So the Palestinians

683
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,519
come in, screw Lebanon up, screw up the demographics, provoke

684
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,400
an invasion by Israel twice and cause everyone in the

685
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,960
country to fight them. So in the middle of this,

686
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:08,400
because of the nineteen eighty two invasion, all of southern

687
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,039
Lebanon is occupied by Israel. A one specific Sheite militia

688
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:18,880
splits off from the other site militias and gets This

689
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,679
is because this is nineteen eighty two, they get foreign

690
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:28,360
funding from the Islamic Republic of Iran. This group becomes

691
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,599
Hesbolah and they are radicalized by They are raticalized by

692
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:37,360
the Iranian Revolution. Actually, the Lebanese contributed very much to

693
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,760
the Iranian Revolution happening in the first place, but that's

694
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,639
a more complicated story. So the Celebanese Chites and the

695
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,280
Iranian sites radicalize each other in exchange, and eventually, after

696
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:54,800
nineteen eighty two, Sheites and Lebanon form Hesbela. And Hesbela's

697
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,199
main goal is not to fight the Palestinians, not to

698
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,719
fight the Christians. It is to drive Israel out of

699
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,760
love and retake the site lands that were now occupied

700
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:10,239
by Israel, and Israel occupied southern Lebanon from nineteen seventy

701
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,679
eight till the year two thousand, So yeah, twenty two

702
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,480
years the south was occupied and that was the Rizondetra

703
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:25,039
of Hesbela. And so after the Israelis left Lebanon in

704
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,320
the year two thousand, they left unilatterally. But throughout that

705
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,440
entire time, even post civil war, Hezebela and the Israelis

706
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,719
were fighting each other in the nineties and southern Lebanon

707
00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:38,840
and a lot of again civilians died. Even though the

708
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,519
country was at peace because the civil war was over,

709
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,800
the country was still at war with Israel, and Hezabela

710
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,079
was the main force fighting Israel in the south because

711
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:53,599
Israel Israel occupied Shiite territory. There was a very famous incident.

712
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,000
Actually if you look at that little orange speck in

713
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,840
the middle of the purple, like right in the center

714
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,760
of the purple in the south, there's an orange speck.

715
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,280
That is actually a very famous town. You might have

716
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,719
heard of it in the Bible. It's called Kina or Kana.

717
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,119
That is the village where Jesus turned the water into

718
00:45:14,199 --> 00:45:20,199
wine at the wedding. And in nineteen ninety six, Israel

719
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,719
was launching a military operation in this region of the south,

720
00:45:25,159 --> 00:45:29,039
and a lot of civilians fled to a United Nations

721
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,280
compound here looking for safety from Israeli shelling. This is

722
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,280
a nineteen ninety six and Israel shelled that UN compound

723
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,920
and you know, over one hundred thousand, over a sorry,

724
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:44,599
over one hundred civilians were massacred. It was called the

725
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,639
it was called the Cana Massacre of nineteen ninety six,

726
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,760
and that caused a huge backlash because UN peacekeepers were there,

727
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:56,960
they were some of them were killed as well. And yeah,

728
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:59,920
there's there's there's I can go down a list of

729
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:01,440
things that have happened like that, but that was a

730
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,880
big one. Israel leaves in the year two thousand. Finally

731
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,480
Lebanon has no Syrian troops or Israeli troops on its territory.

732
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:13,840
It's fully independent, you know, for the first time and

733
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,440
basically its entire history, and I mean politically, shit just

734
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:22,320
hits the fan. America and the West are trying to

735
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,440
tear Lebanon away from the Syrian and Iranian sphere of influence.

736
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,079
The Syrian and Iranians push back, trying to keep Lebanon

737
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:34,559
in their sphere of influence. And we become basically Ukraine

738
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:41,320
using using their client groups in Lebanon to further you know,

739
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,280
foreign backers. To tell me, tell me if you want

740
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,639
me to stop, or if I can or if I

741
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:48,239
should keep going, because I've been rambling for some time.

742
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I have a question. It seems to me

743
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:56,599
that the smart thing that would have would have happened

744
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,639
is if as soon as the palace is it becomes

745
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:04,400
clear that the Palestinians who are in Lebanon are yeah,

746
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,679
trouble makers. They should either be ejected somewhere or dealt with.

747
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:11,760
They were so.

748
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: The reason they the reason the past, the reason the

749
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,440
PLO is in Lebanon is because they were. They were

750
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:24,960
ejected from Jordan. Beforehand, the Palestinians tried to overthrow, the

751
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:29,920
overthrow the king of Jordan, and the Arabs got together

752
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:35,119
and schemed like, Okay, we can't kill YaST Otafat, he's

753
00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:37,440
too important. We can't kill the leader of the Pastaden

754
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:41,519
national movement. However, he tried to overthrow the king of Jordan.

755
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,920
Where do we put him? We'll put him in Lebanon.

756
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:48,719
Why Lebanon. We were too weak to stop it. We

757
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:49,599
were too weak to stop it.

758
00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: We have no leverage.

759
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: We are a tiny country Syria. The Pastinians wanted to

760
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,760
go to Syria. Syria said hell, no, you're troublemakers. We're

761
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,440
putting you in Lebanon where we can keep an eye

762
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,559
on you. And because Lebanon borders Israel so that they

763
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:05,880
can all they all had an interest in keeping out

764
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,519
of facts alive and putting him in a place where

765
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,280
he could cause trouble for Israel but not them, and

766
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,880
so Lebanon was pretty much the ideal destination.

767
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: So it seems to me that the Palestinians, if you're

768
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,679
if I'm listening hearing this right, wherever they go they're

769
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:26,480
causing trouble.

770
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:28,599
Speaker 2: Is that?

771
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,079
Speaker 1: Yeah? And you know people will say, well, you know,

772
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,880
if they're in Gaza, they're causing trouble. If they're on

773
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,360
the how many Palestinians are on the West Bank I'm

774
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,159
trying to remember.

775
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,599
Speaker 2: I think it's like, I think it's like two three million, Yeah, yeah, okay, million,

776
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:48,480
three million.

777
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: But let's concentrate on Gaza. Then it's like, well, if

778
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,840
they're in Gaza, then they're going to be causing problems everywhere.

779
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,559
It seems I've heard the argument that the Palestinians no

780
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:01,599
matter where they go, they cause problems. And you know,

781
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:06,320
and I've always joked that, uh, doctor Schlimos sand And

782
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,440
and Sheldon Richmond, you know, hold to the theory that

783
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:14,400
the Palestinians are actually like the real Jews, that they

784
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,360
have Jewish DNA that they converted over the centuries and everything.

785
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,199
I alwuld say, well, they they sure do. They sure

786
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,760
do sound subversive, so there could there could be some

787
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,280
evidence there, but it sounds like they're just fucking troublemakers

788
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,159
wherever they go. So I mean, I think that it

789
00:49:33,199 --> 00:49:37,480
would be just on that good, just on that one point.

790
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:40,519
I mean, if you were kicked out of your ancestral

791
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:45,280
homeland where your grand where you're not even your grandparents,

792
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,719
your great great great grandparents started build a house or

793
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,960
a farm or a factory that goes back to three

794
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:56,360
hundred years or even further. You know, these people have

795
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,880
been indigenous to the land since the time of Graig basically,

796
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:07,880
and these upstart Eastern European migrants come in and because

797
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,400
they have guns and you don't, your your property is

798
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,880
now their property because right of conquest. You don't think

799
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,519
people are going to have a problem with that. I mean,

800
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,320
you know somebody maker, you know, somebody with Spanish lineage

801
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,280
who understands the history of Spain and knows that the

802
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,360
reconquista there took over seven hundred years, that you know,

803
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:36,519
never forget and just keep taking back as much of

804
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:40,039
the property as possible. Yeah, I mean I get it, Yeah,

805
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:43,360
I get it. And you know, but it's also you know,

806
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:48,159
Europe and these are different people. Your Europe is your

807
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,599
Europeans or Europeans, and people from this place or different cultures,

808
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:58,920
different different ways. And so all right, let's let's go

809
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:07,679
back to Israel. So what is Israel's purpose? Is Israel's

810
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:13,960
purpose to just basically take all of this land because

811
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,360
the Old Testament says it's theirs? Yeah, and I know

812
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:21,559
that they're not religious most of the you know, Benjamin,

813
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:24,400
I don't think Benjamin and Yahoo is a is a

814
00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:27,280
religious person. But that doesn't mean that you're not going

815
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,119
to take a Bible and take the Bible look at

816
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:33,760
as a history book and go or you just rationalize, well,

817
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,760
as it says here that God, whoever, this person, whoever

818
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,000
this guy is, said that this is ours and it's

819
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:43,719
in this book and a bunch of Christians all around

820
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,880
the world and especially in the United States have been

821
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,760
brainwashed in to believe in that we're these people. Then

822
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:52,000
why don't we use this book? Is that is that

823
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,119
what their goal is is to take from take back

824
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:56,400
from the from the river to the sea.

825
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,119
Speaker 2: I mean that's yeah, that's basically. I mean that when

826
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,320
Zionism started in Europe, I mean there was a religious

827
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:10,719
and secular aspect of Zionism which still exists to this day.

828
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:13,719
I mean, like, like you said, not every Israeli is religious,

829
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,800
but there are a lot who are, and there are

830
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,719
a lot who quote Scripture to justify their current holding

831
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,239
of the land. The a secultor Israelis don't think that.

832
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,880
Don't believe that at all. The secutors really believe, Oh,

833
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:28,119
this is a safe place for Jews. You know, this

834
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,000
is a safe place for my people. Where why would

835
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:37,000
I be anywhere else. The goal, basically, the first goal

836
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,599
of the state of Israel is the survival and continuation

837
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:44,400
of the Jewish race. It take it or leave it,

838
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,679
that's it. That is their sole reason for existence. Israel

839
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,920
is the last homeland for Jews all over the world.

840
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,039
That whatever happens, whatever happens post you know Nuremberg. There

841
00:52:57,079 --> 00:52:59,880
will always be a safe place for Jews, run by Jews,

842
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,920
controlled by Jews. That is the purpose of Israel. That

843
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:06,039
that's what we all know it to be. Now, within

844
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,880
that project, there are a lot of different opinions. A

845
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,960
lot of them are expansionists. They took the Golden Heights

846
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,000
from Syria, and Donald Trump, when he was president, recognized

847
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:21,519
the Golden Heights as a part of Israel. Israel is

848
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:24,519
the only country in the world that doesn't declare its

849
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:27,840
own borders. Why because if it declared its own borders,

850
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,400
it would have to demarket where it's where it would

851
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,480
stop expanding. But there are lack of people in Israel

852
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:37,880
who don't who want to continue expanding. Southern Lebanon has

853
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,280
a lot of water resources. It's very hilly, it's a

854
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,960
very nice area, beautiful mountains, rivers, everything. It would supply

855
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:48,519
a lot of water to Israel, which is still majority desert.

856
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,679
That's one I mean. They want to take the Sinai

857
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,800
as well, because of Sinai is very important to the

858
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,320
Jewish religion. These are all things that happened and Israel

859
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,960
had to make compromises giving back the Siyani to Egypt,

860
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,679
for example, in exchange for peace. But at its heart

861
00:54:05,679 --> 00:54:09,800
it's about the survival of the Jewish race, and within

862
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,199
that project the expansion of the Jewish states to the

863
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,199
natural borders of former Israel.

864
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,679
Speaker 1: Right, So anybody who people need to understand that, to

865
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:31,039
understand that who've bought into the narrative that Israel is

866
00:54:31,119 --> 00:54:33,800
just trying to live there peacefully and everybody around them

867
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,639
is trying to kill them. As I know, they seek

868
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:42,199
to expand out and go into territories that people already exisit,

869
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,599
people already live there, have lived there for thousands of years,

870
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,320
just like they did by starting to come there in

871
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,599
the early nineteen hundreds. Is their goal is to take

872
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:58,280
this back, and not only the land that they have now,

873
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:02,760
but to move bed on that. And it seems that

874
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:06,159
they anyone who's standing in the way of that. If

875
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,199
if Iran is helping Hesbelah, I guess here there's a

876
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,079
good place to go. Why do you think Iran is

877
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:21,599
so intent on helping Hesbelah? And I mean we know

878
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,280
that Iran has helped the helped Hamas too, which is

879
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:30,880
you know, Shia helping Sunni. So what's Iran's whole thing?

880
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,440
In this, what's their play in this?

881
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: Iran and Hesbelah, they just like just like America and Israel,

882
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,559
Iran and Hesbela have a very special relationship. The Lebanese

883
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:52,840
Shiites historically have traveled back and forth to Iran to

884
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:59,840
teach the tenets of Shiite Islam that currently rule Iran today.

885
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,840
Because I'm not I'm definitely not an expert on this,

886
00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:06,519
that's for sure. I am not an expert on Islam.

887
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:13,119
But the Lebanese and the Iranians have a centuries long relationship.

888
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,000
The Lebanese sites and the Iranians have a centrally long

889
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:21,760
relationship going back and forth. And the Lebanese sites because

890
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:27,880
of certain emoms and sheikhs in the sixties and fifties

891
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:32,679
radicalized again because of the creation of Israel, because at

892
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,079
this time Iran was pro Israel. Iran was in the

893
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:38,440
American sphere of orbit, so Iran was pro Israel at

894
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,480
this time when we had the Shah of Iran. Famously,

895
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:47,079
so the Lebanese Sheites became radicalized, you know, having Israel

896
00:56:47,159 --> 00:56:50,840
on their border and being the victims of Israel. They

897
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,400
started talking to their site, you know, cousins or cousins

898
00:56:55,519 --> 00:57:00,119
or you know, fellows in Iraq and Iran, and that

899
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,559
radicalized them both. And I don't I don't know the

900
00:57:03,679 --> 00:57:07,960
history of Komeni because Comieni was one of these other people.

901
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,519
I don't know his connection. I don't know his Lebanese

902
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:12,840
connection exactly. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was

903
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:18,679
something there of how Komeni was radicalized into into believing

904
00:57:18,719 --> 00:57:22,199
what he believed. That that's pretty much the best explanation

905
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,639
I can tell you without doing a deep dive. I

906
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:27,760
don't I don't have the background knowledge on that. There

907
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:32,320
was a very famous person. His name was Musa al Sud.

908
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,480
He was the first person in Lebanon. He was the

909
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:40,719
first Shiite imam in Lebanon to start the Chite militias

910
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,519
for the purpose of defending the communities from both the

911
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:48,920
Palestinians and the Israelis. Musa Sud was a little troublemaker himself,

912
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:55,400
and while visiting Libya he was kidnapped, tortured and killed

913
00:57:55,559 --> 00:57:59,480
by Momar Gadaffi. Why and for what reason, I have

914
00:57:59,559 --> 00:58:02,800
no idea, but that was the beginning of Si radicalization

915
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,360
in the sixties. Mosalla Southern.

916
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:14,039
Speaker 1: It's interesting that even into the eighties, Iran had had

917
00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:16,840
a relationship with the United States, especially with the quote

918
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,280
unquote Deep State. I mean they're running arms.

919
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,639
Speaker 2: There was aign contract.

920
00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people don't realize that. It's like, well,

921
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:30,960
this this what happened in you know, so many Americans

922
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,559
want to be like, well, you know, they took our

923
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:35,760
embassy in nineteen seventy nine, and I'm like kind of

924
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,159
over through the government twenty six years earlier. And these

925
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:41,880
people don't have short memories. Now, they deal with a

926
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,400
very low time preference when it comes to things like that.

927
00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:49,119
But yet still after that and after the hostages are

928
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:54,480
released on Inauguration Day in nineteen eighty one, the yeah,

929
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:59,079
they're still doing they're calling them their enemy. Israel's already

930
00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:01,760
talk and about they're two weeks you know, they are

931
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,639
two months from getting a nuclear weapon, and yet they're

932
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:07,159
running weapons for.

933
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:11,719
Speaker 2: The For the contrast and interesting tidbit on that Israel

934
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:17,280
was one of the prime weapons exporters to Iran post revolution.

935
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,960
This is eighty one eighty two. The Israels were sending

936
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,039
weapons to Iran and the Araanians were accepting them from

937
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:27,039
Israel because the Israelis thought Iraq was the bigger threat

938
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:28,400
than Iran.

939
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: It seems like Israel is just the Israeli leadership is

940
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:39,079
schizophrenic when it comes to who who their enemies are.

941
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,159
It could be Iraq this week, it could be Iran

942
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:44,119
the next week, it could be both.

943
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:47,239
Speaker 2: They have they have no theory of mind. These people

944
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:51,559
have no theory of mind. They that the theory of

945
00:59:51,679 --> 00:59:55,599
mind is the basis of all empathy, and to understand

946
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,320
other people, you need empathy, and that's just something these

947
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,880
people cannot. I've never seen these people demonstrate that unless

948
01:00:03,079 --> 01:00:05,000
the person they're talking to is also a fellow member

949
01:00:05,039 --> 01:00:08,239
of the tribe, you know.

950
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: And people who want to talk about how oh Israel

951
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,239
deserves this land and everything it was given it was

952
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:22,000
given to them. Okay, what even granting that, why would

953
01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:26,880
they want to move here? If they It almost seems

954
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:31,079
like you're led to believe that these Jews wanted to

955
01:00:31,199 --> 01:00:34,920
take back their ancestral homeland and they thought they would

956
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:38,159
just be okay, we might need to. And at first

957
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,719
it wasn't oh, we're going to kill everybody there. You

958
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,119
could read Ben Gurion and Ben Gurion's referring to that, well,

959
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:47,000
you know, we have people there. There are brothers, We're

960
01:00:47,039 --> 01:00:48,800
going to have to do something. Then all of a sudden,

961
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,400
like overnight, it flips like you're saying like you're saying, boom, oh, no,

962
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,679
we're gonna have to kill them all. If you know,

963
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:59,800
and anyone who knows their history knows the tensions and

964
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:05,480
the area, why would you move to this area? The

965
01:01:05,639 --> 01:01:07,960
only argument you could make is, well, you know it's

966
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,719
God gave us this. But I mean most of the

967
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,920
people who were who were in stern Gang or in

968
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:19,039
Hagan or Aragon, these these weren't religious characters. I mean,

969
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:22,920
these were these were basically humanists. These were people who

970
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,239
didn't believe in God. So it's like, don't they get

971
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,960
to get some blame for wanting to take back a

972
01:01:31,039 --> 01:01:33,440
land that's surrounded by people they know we're going to

973
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:33,920
hate them.

974
01:01:35,719 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's not it's not even that.

975
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:38,599
Speaker 1: I mean, the.

976
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: The Ottoman history and the Ottoman Empire, this was not

977
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,519
this was not a very tense part of the world

978
01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:49,039
pre World War One. This was not a tense part

979
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:51,280
of the world. Okay, the Ottoman government was very weak.

980
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,000
This did cause ethnic tensions and you know, sectarian rivalries

981
01:01:57,039 --> 01:02:00,159
to flare up, which did happen. There were massacres that

982
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,159
happened in the late nineteenth century that totally happened because

983
01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:05,119
of the failure of the Ottoman Empire and the tension,

984
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:06,079
the ethnic tension.

985
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:08,639
Speaker 1: But like I said, pre.

986
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 2: World War One, this was not a very tense area

987
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,480
of the world. There were already Jews in Palestine. The

988
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:17,159
thing was they were Arab Jews, and the Arab Jews

989
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:21,199
had been there for three thousand years or two thousand years,

990
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:25,079
whatever date post Roman history you want to you wanna

991
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:29,039
call it this, These people were indigenous to the land.

992
01:02:30,039 --> 01:02:35,119
They were not foreigners. No Christians, Muslims and Jews lived

993
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:40,599
in Palestine uninterrupted for fifteen hundred years.

994
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: Or they didn't lock the doors on their I remember

995
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:50,559
reading one diary of a rabbi, European rabbi who went

996
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,639
to Jerusalem and like he was from like seventeen eighty

997
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:59,079
or seventeen ninety, and he wrote there that on the Sabbath,

998
01:02:59,559 --> 01:03:02,000
they didn't locked their doors, they didn't shut their doors.

999
01:03:02,079 --> 01:03:05,039
They didn't have a worry that Muslims were going to

1000
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:09,280
come in there and kill them. This wasn't a everyone,

1001
01:03:09,559 --> 01:03:12,800
it seemed. And Christians, there were Christian churches there too.

1002
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,079
No one's locking their doors, No one's worried about these

1003
01:03:16,199 --> 01:03:18,320
kind of things. When these kind of things pop up,

1004
01:03:19,639 --> 01:03:22,440
they can be hyper political and they can be cultural. Sure,

1005
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:31,000
but there wasn't this problem, and it wasn't that, and there.

1006
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,639
Speaker 2: Wasn't There wasn't this problem because politics was out of

1007
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:37,880
their hands. I mean literally out of their hands. You know,

1008
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,480
these people were just part of the tapestry. Palestine was

1009
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:46,320
a region of the Ottoman Empire, and Constantinople was where

1010
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:49,320
all government authority was centralized. Okay, there were Yeah, they

1011
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,400
were administrative governors. There always are, but it was not

1012
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:56,840
It was not a mass democracy. People, You didn't you

1013
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,320
had no you had no say over government. So you

1014
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:06,000
had local religious representatives that's interfaced with the regional government

1015
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:08,880
and then the central government. And you went to your

1016
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:14,400
priest or, your rabbi or your imam and they interfaced

1017
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:18,320
with the government on your behalf to represent your interests.

1018
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,480
There was no actually, there was no mass democracy of like,

1019
01:04:21,639 --> 01:04:24,119
this is a numbers game and if there's more of us,

1020
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,119
therefore you don't get anything of what you want. And

1021
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:32,239
this was a government. People don't understand, like, yes, the

1022
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:38,639
government in the Ottoman government was okay, monarchical, Yes, it

1023
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:45,320
was also extremely consensus based, extremely consensus based, like you

1024
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,719
had to get everyone on board, or at least piss

1025
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,800
off the least amount of people as possible to achieve

1026
01:04:52,039 --> 01:04:55,280
anything in the Ottoman Empire. To achieve anything, you had

1027
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,519
to piss off the least number of people, whether it

1028
01:04:57,639 --> 01:05:02,000
was the merchants, the Christians, the dru the military, anybody,

1029
01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:04,280
the administrator, the administrators, you had to piss off the

1030
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,840
least amount of people possible or they would stop you

1031
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:11,440
from from enacting your policy, even though you were quote

1032
01:05:11,519 --> 01:05:13,519
unquote the sultan or the emperor.

1033
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's it really seems like up until pretty

1034
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:26,239
much anywhere you go in the West and even in

1035
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,159
this area, up until the twentieth century, when you had rulers,

1036
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:36,119
before you had democracy, you you just lived your life.

1037
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,400
You know, some people may be poorer than others, some people,

1038
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,719
some people were served, some people were But it really

1039
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:48,119
seems like the twentieth century, this twentieth century of democracy,

1040
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,280
where World War One is trying to end every monarchy,

1041
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,039
and then World War two is trying to end every

1042
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:59,440
ethno state, that it's after that that when the people

1043
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:04,440
have a say in everything, which means that your government

1044
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,159
can be subverted by special interests, and those special interests

1045
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:10,800
are not going to have your best interest at heart.

1046
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:15,280
That everything wants to ship that. We've been dealing with

1047
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,159
that now for one hundred fucking years, where it's just

1048
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:25,360
you know, liberalism, Oh liberalism, classic liberalism hasn't even started yet.

1049
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,199
That's what's going to take us, you know, that's what's

1050
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:32,960
going to defeat Global Homo and everything. It's like, no, no, no,

1051
01:06:33,159 --> 01:06:35,280
that's what caused it. That's what brought it here. That's

1052
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,639
what that's what allows it to even if it doesn't

1053
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,719
even if it didn't bring it here, even if it

1054
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,280
didn't allow it in, however it got in, it definitely

1055
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,519
allows it to thrive. It definitely allows it to feed

1056
01:06:47,719 --> 01:06:52,320
like a cancer. And yeah, I mean it seems like

1057
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,920
this is the same exact thing. Once you have people

1058
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,000
who once you have people who are over have a

1059
01:06:58,119 --> 01:07:03,280
rule or even a weak rule, or someone who's like

1060
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,039
the Ottoman Empire who's really not good at what they're

1061
01:07:07,079 --> 01:07:09,840
supposed to what they're supposed to be doing here, you

1062
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,559
have more peace. Everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks that before

1063
01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:16,440
the Jews shut up there that there were bombs blowing

1064
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:18,679
up and people were just killing each other and it

1065
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,960
was just these mass slaughters and everything. And it's like

1066
01:07:21,559 --> 01:07:25,239
probably no more than anywhere else in the world.

1067
01:07:28,239 --> 01:07:31,719
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, absolutely, And again the massacres that did happen

1068
01:07:32,199 --> 01:07:36,960
were a result of the breakdown in governments, the breakdown

1069
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,519
in the Ottoman Empire and the factionalism within the Ottoman

1070
01:07:39,559 --> 01:07:43,880
Empire that led to you know, ethnic groups causing trouble.

1071
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,719
And not to be a libertarian, I know we're not

1072
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:52,559
libertarians anymore, but how did how did individuals how did

1073
01:07:52,639 --> 01:07:55,639
like normal everyday people, whether they were Muslim or Christian, like,

1074
01:07:55,679 --> 01:07:58,840
how did they hold power? Like in the Ottoman government,

1075
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:05,440
they held power through private associations, the private association, you're

1076
01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:09,920
the merchant guild or you know, the religious community, the church,

1077
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,440
or I don't know, you were part of the military

1078
01:08:13,079 --> 01:08:15,119
or just anything you were you were you were a

1079
01:08:15,199 --> 01:08:19,439
high administrative person in the local council. Like this was

1080
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:24,560
a very communal, very bottom up there. There There was

1081
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:29,279
not there was there was a people thought like all

1082
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,479
power was centralized. Not at all the complete the complete

1083
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:38,079
opposite was the case. Power was extremely decentralized, and the

1084
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:42,119
job of the Sultan was to keep was to piss

1085
01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:46,279
off the least number of these decentralized centers of power

1086
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,000
throughout the entire Ottoman Empire, whether it was the merchants,

1087
01:08:50,039 --> 01:08:53,560
the military, the administratives, and the various religious sects. The

1088
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:57,439
Sultan was the ruler of millions of people who were

1089
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,119
not Sunni Muslim and they had to be governed just

1090
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:03,560
as well as the Sunnia Muslims. And they had their

1091
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,920
own they had they had private religious law. Like if

1092
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,640
you're a Christian, you followed Christian law. You did not

1093
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,840
follow Sunni law. The Suni law was not imposed on

1094
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,479
you because you were not Sudni. You followed Christian law

1095
01:09:17,039 --> 01:09:19,439
or Jewish law if you were Jewish in Palestine in

1096
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,760
the Ottoman Empire. And no one knows it, and no

1097
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,199
one knows anything about this, and it's not wrong to

1098
01:09:26,239 --> 01:09:29,399
say you were a somewhat second class citizen. Okay, Yes,

1099
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,720
Sunis were privileged the state. The head of the state

1100
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,720
was a Sunnia Muslim. Yes, that didn't mean you didn't

1101
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,720
have you know, that didn't mean your life was that

1102
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:43,279
different than anyone else's. And they kept they the Sultan

1103
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:48,680
never forced. The Sultan never imposed like Christians to follow

1104
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:52,319
Muslim law. Never happened in the entire and then in

1105
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:56,119
the entire history of the Ottoman Empire, the mass the

1106
01:09:56,239 --> 01:09:59,000
forced conversions were like in the time of Muhammad, which

1107
01:09:59,039 --> 01:09:59,960
was a thousand years before.

1108
01:10:03,399 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: Sounding a little like Consermahappa there talking about democracy, they

1109
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:07,319
got of the field.

1110
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can take you can take the you can

1111
01:10:11,359 --> 01:10:13,640
take the libertarianism out of out of the Boy, but

1112
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,520
you can't take the boy out of libertarianism or opposite.

1113
01:10:17,039 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the that. Yeah, it's always I mean,

1114
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:23,800
there's not bad ideas there. They're just making it into

1115
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,800
a religion is the problem. Making it to its own

1116
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,680
religion is the problem. So we've been going, Yeah, we've

1117
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,119
been going a while. Is there anything anything you want

1118
01:10:33,159 --> 01:10:33,680
to conclude with?

1119
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: I got, I mean I could, I could, I could

1120
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,680
talk about the subject for hours, but I think I

1121
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:44,840
think we covered pretty much the complicated history. I'm sorry

1122
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,520
for going on huge monologues about the entire history. It's

1123
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,000
it's a it's a lot to digest.

1124
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,199
Speaker 1: And I have I have a podcast where I have

1125
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:56,159
Thomas seven seven seven on once a week. It's okay,

1126
01:10:56,199 --> 01:10:57,720
it's okay to go on.

1127
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, it's just a lot of information to digest.

1128
01:11:04,039 --> 01:11:07,560
I have. There is one book I do there's one

1129
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:11,800
book I do recommend people read. It's not specifically about Lebanon,

1130
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:15,680
but it's a great book that gives you a perspective

1131
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,880
of the Middle East and the history of the Middle

1132
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,960
East in the twentieth century. And this book is called

1133
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,600
the Chatham House Version. It was actually recommended to me

1134
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:31,159
by a mister Curtis Yarvin. Actually we met briefly in

1135
01:11:31,359 --> 01:11:34,520
d c and he recommended me this book, and it's

1136
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:39,600
an excellent book. The author is an Iraqi Jew who

1137
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,800
never lived in Israel. He was living in the UK.

1138
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:45,079
He was a British academic and his name is Eli

1139
01:11:45,239 --> 01:11:50,279
Kidouri k E d o U r I E. And

1140
01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:52,560
the book is called the Chatham House Version. It's a

1141
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,439
collection of essays he wrote on the Middle East. And

1142
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,000
there's yes he's an Arab Jew, which is actually kind

1143
01:11:59,039 --> 01:12:02,359
of like the most interesting perspective on the entire conflict.

1144
01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:08,159
But there's so many good tidbits of information in that book.

1145
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,239
And me and my good friend Hitman have a series

1146
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:15,119
on this book where he reads out he reads out

1147
01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:17,640
each chapter and then we have a discussion on that

1148
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,319
chapter specifically. It's a great series if you want to learn,

1149
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,680
like if you want to learn like a fascinating perspective

1150
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,279
on twentieth century Middle Eastern history, definitely pick up that

1151
01:12:28,359 --> 01:12:31,880
book by Ali Kadouri, the Chatham House version. It's that

1152
01:12:32,039 --> 01:12:35,279
series on your YouTube channel or something like that. Uh no,

1153
01:12:35,399 --> 01:12:38,079
my friend hit Man, I'll send you a DM of

1154
01:12:38,159 --> 01:12:38,600
his channel.

1155
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, as smy so I can. I can linkswer that.

1156
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,000
Anything else you want to plug.

1157
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,199
Speaker 2: Follow me at Twitter at Hunger Dye d Ye And

1158
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:51,720
I don't know which day exactly this will be coming out,

1159
01:12:52,199 --> 01:12:53,800
but it's in those secrets.

1160
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:54,039
Speaker 1: I am.

1161
01:12:54,159 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 2: I'm a member of the Philadelphia chapter of the OGC,

1162
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:02,760
and we are very happy to say this Saturday, November second,

1163
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,119
we'll be doing an event in Valley Forge and if

1164
01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:10,880
you want more information on that, please follow our Twitter

1165
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:15,840
account Philly Chap O g C Philly p h I

1166
01:13:16,119 --> 01:13:20,680
L L y chap Philly chap C j A p

1167
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,239
O g C and for more information on that event.

1168
01:13:25,159 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 1: Philly Chap o G. Okay, I'll get that in there too,

1169
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,039
all right, Hunger, I appreciate it, Thank you very much,