Speaker 1: What is up? Fellasko's I am Dan Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certify fantabulous mister
Grant Hughes Hardwood Knox has gathered here today to finally,
after teasing it in discord for a while, apologies for
the delays on our end mail bag time. Here's the mail, Grant.
It never fails. Are you a Blues Clues kid?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: But I do get the reference, partly because if you're
watching this you can see the little banner at the
bottom that does have the dog and a mailbox.
Speaker 2: It's it's all very thoughtfully done. I was not. I
think maybe I'm too old for Blues Clues? Does that
be two?
Speaker 1: But for some of all I was like on the
on the fringe. It was on and there was no
other younger children in my house. Maybe it was on
for me. I could sing a bunch of songs from
Steve that was the Blues right?
Speaker 3: I don't think I could do one? Should that be
the episode? How many Blues Clue songs can we get
Dan to sing?
Speaker 1: That's gonna be That's a stat padding thing, for sure.
Speaker 3: Just rate the accuracy of the lyrics. No, but great, great,
opportunity to discuss the mail. What what I do think
of blues clues when when you mentioned mail?
Speaker 2: So this feels like it's working. There we go, How
are you doing, sir, I'm doing well. I still want
to stay on this topic.
Speaker 3: I think of mister mcpheely from mister Rogers, who was
the maleman on that show. Odd name in hindsight as
I say it, but he would deliver the mail to
mister Rogers and they, you know, just have a chat
with him.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, mister mister mcpheeley sounds like an adults handle
on the roadblocks chatty abbers. I just I don't I
remember mister Rogers. I don't remember any of the other
people's names that were on that show.
Speaker 2: What do you remember mister Rogers?
Speaker 1: The neighborhood song where he'd just be taking his shoes
on and off and like get it like, which is
all kind of like why is he getting sort of undressed?
As far he seemed like show was super chill, but
I'm not sure I entirely. And he was changing his
sweater vest.
Speaker 3: Right he would have to switch into a sweater. I
think he would change from like you know, like uh
not wingtips, but like dressier shoes into sneakers, I think,
and he's got to wind down.
Speaker 2: It's been a long day at the office.
Speaker 3: For whatever mister Rogers does at the office, I think
that's the idea he's coming. He's you're gonna get the
the looser, cooler mister Rogers at home.
Speaker 2: When he goes sweater and sneakers, I think.
Speaker 1: Did he have for someone the party sweater? Like what
was the what was the party sweater versus the yeah business.
Speaker 3: It would be a great bit if he just came
in and changed into exactly the same sweater but it
was like a different one, and then changed into the
exact same shoes. That's probably happened before they just ran
You remember the show, Doug Sure. Oh yeah, his closet
right with all the same clothes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing well. I'm happy to hit this mailbag. Finally.
These are so some of these are what a week
week or so old?
Speaker 1: But I was I was talking the questions.
Speaker 2: It's all pretty relevant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're all super elevant. But we have a ton
of questions. We'll get to as many as possible because
what happens, I guess when you let it sit for
a little bit. I think I tease this mailbag for
three weeks, and normally we give a few days notice.
So shout out to anyone who's been waiting for their
question to be answered. We do have I have questions,
but they're my questions for you, based off some of
these news items that we have to tackle first before
we dive in the mail bag. I'm going to begin
here grant are Yiannis in the Bucks just a lost cause?
At this point, I'm assuming in part because you quoted
it in our prep doc. I'm assuming you read the
Ramona Shellburnon piece for me ESPN.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just to recap for anyone that hasn't read it,
I guess would you say.
Speaker 2: The thrust of it is that? Or the new angle
is that?
Speaker 3: Oh hey, this Buck's ownership situation is very weird and
it's complicating what has already become a much too complicated
Yannis endless trade saga. Which is so and the deal
is that there's basically two I don't even know what
to call them, but it's Edens and Haslam get like
five years as the controlling.
Speaker 2: Majority owner.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the exact terminology would be. And
then every and then after five years it switches to
the other guy and it goes back and forth, and
this is effectively the same setup that Eden's and Lazarie
had before, or something like that. Anyway, it seems like
and then what the reporting from Ramona Shelburne indicates is
that people around the league it's the classic we're not
really sure who's making decisions over there, I don't know
who to talk to type of thing that you hear
when there's it's just a poor, I don't know org
chart set up in terms of decision making. So that's
all just adding a layer of complication to the honest stuff.
Would you add anything to that sort of summary of
the report.
Speaker 1: Well, there's been the disagreement over shutting him down between
Giannis and the.
Speaker 3: Organization too, that precipitated this report, right that that so
do you do you take this to mean that, like
some of the disagreement about are we shutting him down
or not is not just Giannis has an opinion and
the team has one. It's the team might have more
than one opinion on it, or they can't agree on it.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's I don't understand. This really just
feels like the most long, inevitable, drawn out divorce that
we've seen when it comes to superstars in the NBA,
and not one. There's been times where it was it
felt media manufactured because how many years ago was it
Danny Ainge in Boston is planning around Giannis's availability. That
wasn't Jannie insided or Bucks insided the past what too?
Like ever since Damian Lillard was traded to Before Damian
Lillard was traded to the Bucks, that's what this now
feels like. And I don't I I took away more
from the report from Cham's that Jannis and the team
are disagreeing over whether he should be shut down or not.
Objectively speaking, the Bucks going nowhere at this season, so
even if he was healthy, it would make sense to
shut him down. However, as the Bucks, I think that's
the right call As the Bucks. You can't be surprised
that Giannis doesn't want to shut it down for two reasons. One,
there's tales of how they would have to lock him
out of the gym to get rest just floating around
out there, and two like this is also part of
it's part of the politicking of we try to make
it work. I really wanted to play for them through
the entire season. And this is so I don't understand
how something a scenario such as this was not discussed
prior to the deadline when they decided to keep him.
I'm not even saying that this means they should have
moved him mid season. They're just and finally, their stuff
is clearly not copathetic, because not all of this should
be leaking out, the actual disagreement about the over whether
he wants to be shut down, Who is that that
information getting out there? Who is that helping nobody? And
so it seems like there's just a lot of discord
being so and behind the scenes, not to the point
where there is this inbuilt animosity that can't be reversed,
but it contributes to the what are we even doing here,
guys feeling of it all?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Does it doesn't?
Speaker 3: This report from Shelbourne kind of it makes it easier
to understand how Milwaukee has mismanaged the situation to the
degree it has, because it's pretty clear that this is
the quote that I put in the dock that like
leapt out of me when I read it, was they're
not this is another executive. So that's the other thing
is a lot of the sourcing in the in the
Some of it is direct, but a lot of it
is other executives around the league giving their opinion on
the situation in Milwaukee. And one of those was they're
not even close to being ready to make a decision
like that, referring to the Yannis situation. It's like, how
is it possible that they're not, like they should know,
they should have of like a whole decision tree, like
laid out, where will Jannis if this, then this, if
this then that then that? Like right, it should be
so easy because there's only so many potential outcomes here,
right he signs the critical one? Does he sign the
max extension or not? And so if yes, I mean
I guess he's staying here then and we have this
other series of decisions to make. If no, obviously you
trade him now. The article does seem to suggest that,
like if he doesn't sign it, the we must trade him, drum.
Speaker 1: He doesn't suggest it.
Speaker 2: One of them someone says it.
Speaker 1: Eden's right, was the or was it has one of
them's told ESPN that no, like this he signs the extension,
he gets traded. We can't afford to let this ride
out and there.
Speaker 3: No shit, there's no ship like of course, thanks, this
is the first rational thing that's come out of the
Bucks in a long time.
Speaker 2: But sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't there even a disconnect with like you said,
the sources are coming from other organizations, but there's a
disconnect between that line of thinking and everyone else believing
they haven't even come close to like deciding or mapping
out how this looks. I do think there has to
be a level of just for if you want, Giannis,
it behooves you to put something like that out there,
and I was we were both. I think it's a
port of if you're the Bucks, based on the offers
that we know were out there, the most intriguing of
which the deadline was what if the Rockets, the Spurs,
the Thunder weren't involved the Hawk probably were Golden State's picks.
We were in support of that offer will be there
in the summer with probably an additional first round pick
ye in there, so we were kind of in support
of that. I'm really just at the point it says
at the end of the ESPN story, and this is
the thing that I'm struggling with, is that the Bucks
are going to try and do things that get Yannis
to stay. Yeah, And what they mentioned specifically was could
they get other distressed? Distressed was the word of what
we're It wasn't like disgruntled or get him in a one.
It made it seem like could they get a jam Moran.
That's not they didn't mention a name. I want to
be clear. That's what that felt like to me. And
then I'm that's even more of a what are we
doing here folks? To me because Ja Moran and Giannis
that's not that's not it, And so i'm I'm increasingly
it's not just this report, it's it's just all these
seemingly little or avoidable occurrences. The cumulative effect of them
all has me believing there's no way he's going to
be back in a walking next season. And the timing
of the extension eligibility does make it a little weird
because he technically can't sign it intol October first, But
if you're the Bucks, you need to push for a
definitive answer well before and if he won't even I'm
not even saying if he doesn't say no, if he
equivocates it, then you do have to move on. And
I'm not saying Yiannis is wrong for equivocating or whatever,
but this is, this is what happened with Damian Lillard
and the Blazers on steroids.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: And like what I took from from this from Ramona's
article was that or one of the things I took
was that Jannis does Wance thinks there Maybe it was
just re reiterating or paraphrasing some previous quotes or reporting
we've had, but it was essentially Yannis thinks it's time
for a split, like was in there.
Speaker 2: And and so.
Speaker 3: If if you, if you're the Bucks, you need to
be the ones to just pull the trigger at this point.
I know I've I've vacillated, and I think we both
have said, like, you know, it's cool to have a
one team superstar, like if Joannis.
Speaker 1: Wants years before you get another one, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're never getting another guy like this.
Speaker 3: All that, I think I just getting some distance from
the trade deadline part of it, and even last offseason,
it's just so abundantly clear that this should have ended
a long time ago, like this probably should have ended
like before the Dame trade. Even you could make the
case now that would have been that would have been
the classic, like getting out early is better than getting
out late, because that would have felt a little early
had they been be honest then.
Speaker 1: Because we both I liked the Dame trade, did you
at the time, I can't remember.
Speaker 3: I recognize like if in theory he gives you the
solve to your late game offense, stuff that gets too predictable,
and you're giving it back on the other end, Like
I guess I was open to it, but now it's
just you can't, for example, make a bunch of moves
to keep you honest happy and hope that that's what
gets him to sign the extension, because then he still
might not and even if he does, this team's not
going anywhere.
Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 3: What just just distressed assets, like Cam Thomas, how's that going?
Like that we're gonna we're gonna keep going to that well,
So I just think I think you need to just
move him. I don't even think, like, yeah, I guess
you offer him the extension, but I'm but even that
is now just like can't we just can't we just
call it? I don't I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're the bucks. You wouldn't want to extend him.
Speaker 3: I don't even know, man, I guess my mind. I'm
just fixated on this has to end. Here's the other
I wanted to ask you, so you know how. The
example that jumps to mind first in situations sort of
like this but lower stakes, is the way that we
used to rip on the Raptors for not trading Anonobi
and Siakam as soon as they could have. Even a
lesser version is the bulls with like Kobe White and
Vouch and Dasunmu. We harped on them for just move
them now because their value goes down.
Speaker 2: Is the yannest situation.
Speaker 3: There's other factors that complicate it, like his how meaningful
he is to the city, the fact that he won
a championship, the fact that like maybe he.
Speaker 2: Wants to be there, but also maybe it's not as
cut and dried.
Speaker 3: But does some of the same logic or should some
of that same logic apply in our criticisms of the
bucks where it's just you're waiting too long, forget forget
all the other stuff, it's it's you've got this asset
that is approaching free agency in any In most other situations,
we would be all over them for not moving him
at this past deadline. I wonder if some of that
logic just should start applying more cleanly.
Speaker 1: I think it could. What I keep coming back to though,
is Jannis is still can be a one man contender
onto himself basically, And.
Speaker 2: Do you think so? I wonder about.
Speaker 1: Are you you don't think Giannics could be the best
player on a title contender right now?
Speaker 2: I think he could.
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think the I think the
question that ends there. It's not because you wouldn't say
I think o Jan Andobi could do, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean? But things have to be for
him versus like there's a lot of other players that
people would categorize as like lesser players that I think
it would be much easier to build a championship contender around.
Because I take your point.
Speaker 1: And so I think just him being that megastar that Adanobi,
the levels they've never reached.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: I understand the attempts to do everything within their power
to keep him and try and wedge this window open.
And it's look, even the wave and stretch of Dame
my Nalysis was this is reckless. I don't think it's
gonna end well, but I kind of respect it, and
that's where I'm at with what they've tried. People can
criticize how poorly they've done in the draft. It's easy
to criticize the Dame trade now even easier a lot
more people to be clear of criticizing what they did
with Miles Turner. Then, at the same time, they have
exhausted everything possible each time getting Giannis on board, even
when he hasn't. This past summer was that inflection point
of he's not gonna sign an extension. Now that's not
what they're doing, but you want there was the report
about him being interested in the next They were able
to convince him on coming back for this year. I
respect that, but I think now now that we're back
at this next extension eligibility, this is where that criticism
should should start to kick in. And I do believe
probably this past summer was the first real summer that
the critiques that you're talking about. That's maybe that I
believe though, that's when this could be applied that type
of logic. But ye, before then, why wouldn't you try
to go like get the Damien Lower trade. If I
got Yanna is happy and on paper it it was
Middleton was not really the wheels hadn't fallen off just yet.
We weren't at We need to rake Chris Middleton for
Kyle Kuzma Defcon one levels.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And the final question I want to ask you on
this is where are you? And I know this is
a lot of third party stuff, but when you hear
Jannis saying things such as I can't control what my
agents say, or in the Ramona Shellbourne piece there was
the quote, the source quote not from you honest himself,
that he told Drew Holliday they really missed his defense
ef you left, But the reason you moved, Drew Holiday
is because Jannis is applying pressure on the Bucks to
do X, which is well within his rights. Is there
a level of duality here that Jannis deserves criticism for?
Call duality called ambiguity? Or no? Do you not assign
because I'm honestly asking, because I don't know. I tend
to place most of the blame like Yannis. This is
his careers, You'll be able to do what he wants.
But there does seem to be an interesting duality with
There's been so many reports, as Shelburne pointing out multiple times.
He's apparently informed the Bucks that he believes it's time
to part ways. That's not what, however, you feel about
the national media or Shan Sharania. That's not being put
out there multiple times without there being some real smoke.
And by the way, Sham's is not the only one
who's put it out there. Stein, Jake Fisher have all
had that stuff in the ether as well.
Speaker 3: I think, so it's a little complicated. I do think
if the situation is Jannis, it's like the reduced, simplified
version is Jannis wants to leave and has wanted to
for a long time, but he will not. He doesn't
want to be the bad guy in the situation that
demands a trade. Like if that's really what this is,
then he absolutely deserves a huge share of the blame,
because suck it up, man, just do it if you
if you you don't get to say winning, you know,
you don't get to say winning is the most important
thing to you and then behave this way because if
that were true, you would recognize that you aren't You
are not as likely to win here, and you've already
just if you're saying you want to leave, you've decided
that you're not going to win here and you want
to go somewhere where you can.
Speaker 2: But if you're not willing.
Speaker 3: To publicly say that and just get the wheels moving,
which he could. The second he says I want to
be traded, this thing ratchets into like fifth gear, and
it's and he's gone pretty soon, right like, or at
least sooner than we wouldn't be in the situation. So
he's culpable if that's the case. Where this gets complicated
is I I won't speak in the collective we but
I definitely get caught up in in thinking about stuff
like this out of remove and saying like if I
were in this situation, well, there's a lot of reasons
I'm not in this situation that Jannie is in, and
one of them is because I don't have irrational self confidence.
Speaker 2: And for him, he.
Speaker 1: Must contract with hardwood knocks also extend through I think
twenty fifty, so you're just.
Speaker 2: Lot on some level.
Speaker 3: For him, he can look at a shit roster and
maybe talk himself into, you know what, we have a
shot because I'm here and I'm great and thinking that
has gotten me this far. Why would I change up
at this point, right. I think we've talked about some
version of this before. But I do think so much
of what has made him successful is in his way
now in terms of his makeup, where it's just all
things are possible because I made it from nothing to this,
I won us a championship. So yeah, I can look
at a terrible setup and believe that somethings that winning
is possible here. I think that is partly to blame
for the stalemate situation. That said, yes, don't you think
he deserves some blame here? For if it is true
that he believes it's time to break and he's not
initiating the breakup, then he is he is worthy of blame.
Speaker 1: I would agree with you. But if he's also informed
the Bucks that, how would he have to present it
to the Bucks? He has to make so he has
to him saying I think it's time we go our
separate ways doesn't count.
Speaker 2: He No, he could do it publicly. He could do
the standard where it gets leaked. He just leaks it.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't want to get fined.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: If he was actively not requesting the Bucks were coming
to him and they were checking in and he's like, no,
I'm good, but then putting this stuff out that we're
seeing now the reporting has been consistently, he's informed the
Bucks this, So what more did you want him to
go and throw a tantrum or something.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's I'm saying there's blame to go
around here.
Speaker 2: I'm I.
Speaker 3: I don't think I think he's he deserves some blame,
and depending on how strongly he's indicated, like it shouldn't
take like I don't know. It feels like there needs
to be an official trade demand or something, and that's
what we'll get the Bucks to move. And that's stupid
by them like that, He's done everything, but and so
like the Bucks should have pulled the trigger a long
time ago. So they're both worthy of blame. I think
there's a tendency sometimes we've kind of brushed up against
this to absolve the honest of all of this. But
I don't think that's reasonable anymore, if it ever was.
I think they're both they're both fucking this up, and
it's dragged on for too long. And the solution is
pretty simple. If uncomfortable, you just trade him at your
next opportunity, which is I guess probably Draft night would
be the move.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to look back, because I
think part of what could inoculate the Bucks against criticism
is if we look back on the trade and say, Okay,
that was a good haul under the circumstances. Do you
think it's more likely that's what we're saying, or do
you think it's more likely we get reverse sticker shock?
Oh that's all he got all to get? Yannis?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the fact that it's gone this long
and you have the the same concerns that always crop
up in this situation, which is to say, he's got
one year left on his deal, so he's just the
offers will be worse than if he had three, right.
I think I still got to believe it's going to
be a haul. I I do think that while we've
gone back and forth on the idea of like, maybe
there's a better offer over the summer than was available
at the deadline, it's also possible that the offers are worse,
isn't it. You know, presumably it teams are going to
have more picks and stuff to trade, but it's not
It's not a given.
Speaker 2: So I don't know which way I lean on that.
I guess what I'm certain.
Speaker 3: Of is the offers are worse, will be worse now,
and we're worse at this most recent trade deadline than
they would have been a full year ago.
Speaker 2: I think you would have gotten more then.
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's probably that's probably the first time
to me that you, as the Bucks, you really should
have sat down and thought about initiating it yourself, because
that's it's really tough to initiate it when you're dealing
with a top five play. We saw Okac wrote it
out with Kevin Durant and none of it he was
younger at the time, but they wrote out with Kevin Rant.
We didn't really criticize them for doing that.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. Yeah, I'd be interesting.
Speaker 3: I would like to go back in time, uh, with
the almost decade of experience we've got now, and wonder
what I would have thought about all that then. I well,
I was just like, the Warriors are going to get him.
That's all I care about. I don't care about any
of the other angles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're your bias is quite literally showing.
Speaker 2: It's quite I mean, if at this point, what are
we trying. Are we going to try to hide this?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I so I think the Bucks Andiannis are a lost cause.
I guess just to officially log an answer to that,
I didn't.
Speaker 1: Think we're gonna spend twenty minutes on that.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Uh this this next question comes from fuck you injuries.
Can the Pistons survive without Kate Cunningham who has collapsed lung?
Which I'm sorry, that's one of the injuries where when
you listen to it or read the breakdowns and there's
the average of, oh, they come back in whatever days,
it's eleven games missed on average or twelve, But collapse
lung just sounds awful, show serious, And I'm not saying
they overplayed it. I just the thought of when I
saw collapse sung, my immediate thought was, well, the Pistons
season is over because Kay's not going to play again
this year. But then you go back and you see,
well Terrence Man only missed such Cgi McCollum came back
from this twice.
Speaker 2: To collapse lung sounds bad. Collapse just anything that collapses
in your body. That's really what it is.
Speaker 3: You could have like a what if you had a
collapsed Uh femur.
Speaker 2: That sounds bad collapse, Like, I don't know, kidney bad, collapse.
Speaker 1: Collapse, frontal lobe seems like that might be pretty bad.
Speaker 3: All of its team's not great, So this is I mean,
the angle we've harped on with the Pistons all season
is like Kate has to do too much. They're vulnerable
if they are because there's one guy that creates shots
for the offense, and now that.
Speaker 2: Guy's not going to be there. Can they survive without him? Yeah?
Speaker 3: If that means, you know, playing five hundred for the
rest of the regular season, it rules them out of
winning a playoff series probably, I don't know, if it's
a one versus whoever comes out of the play in
maybe they get that, Like.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I have to look at the match
if they end up facing without Caid, the Hornets or
the hot Like, no, they're not beating those teams without Caid.
Speaker 3: I think that's probably right, I would say, though. So
they've got their most frequently used non Caid lineup, which
basically just have has Dennis Jenkins in his spot alongside Thompson,
Robinson Harris and Jalen Duran. It's like a plus thirty
per hundred, and the offense is good, the defense is great.
It's one hundred and thirty eight possessions, so all the
grains of salt. But there's some proof of concept, I guess.
Speaker 2: And we like Djinking.
Speaker 3: I like Jenkins, but I like him as a as
a third guard, not like your primary initiator.
Speaker 1: If he could put together like three or four consecutive
games of Okay, this guy is something I sort of.
Speaker 3: Did earlier in the year, right he had that that
his introductory run really was was him playing.
Speaker 1: It shifts the entire like burden. When you're not going
you have to just go up against every team's best
units because kid's not all as sudden there, and I've
I've started to one. They did beat the Wizard. I
watched uh the first three quarters of Wizard's pistons, and
I thought we were gonna see more of. There was
a ton of paint touches for Jalen Duran. There was
way too many post ups for Tobias Harris. I don't
think that's gonna be the solve I really wanted to
see more of. And they had gotten into this before
his because the Star Thompson's even just coming back from
sprain to ankle injury, but he had been handling the
ball more and I want to see him in more
of those traditional situations, like he's gonna force turnovers, create chaos, playmaking, transition,
or we see a lot of the stuff where it's
Jalen Duran will set a screen for Duncan Robinson, Duncan
Robinson passes to a cutting a Sar Thompson who then
finds Duran or plays like those. I want to see
if they could can you do more handoff stuff, specifically
with Asar Thompson, What can you do more of that
in the half courts around him with as much shooting
around him and Durhaan as humanly possible, and see what
that looks like. He is a really and I don't
know that I brought this across mort and I just
did extensions, rookie extensions. We're most fascinated by this summer
broken down by the East and West. I don't think
I gave a Sar enough credit for like, he is
a really smart and just really good passer and maybe
this is a chance for him to tap into that.
But then I'm also sometimes wondering, well, how much of
that was predicated on sometimes like Kate is in transition
off the ball, or like deep ceiling when they're in transition,
and that's opening stuff up for everyone. I'm I'm pessimistic
on what the piss Jalen Duran has been. He's like
in the ninety second percent high self created shot making,
but this is also the second lowest share of his
career of his attempts at the rim that are going
on assisted. There's a level of dependence. Jalder can do
a lot with the ball, so I'm fascinated to see
more of that. But everyone on this team is so
dependent on not just Kaig Cunningham getting them the ball,
but Kay Cunningham taking and making some ridiculously tough shots
to kind of keep the offense humming. I don't if
he comes back, they'll be fine because Kate Cunningham is
that good. This team is. This team is good and
what they could do when isay Or Stewart's healthy Defensively,
I think in the intern while he's out forever long
he's out the player, I know everyone's gonna look at
Jalen Duran. I'm gonna be most interested in what Asar
Thompson looks like because there might be more playmaking meat
on the bone there with.
Speaker 3: Him, and you know what, if there is, then it
should it should probably change how the Pistons play because
I think, you know, it's very hard to justify taking
the ball out of Cunningham's hands, but I just don't.
I just don't think it's a sustainable way to win
a bunch of playoff series to have him in such
a ball dominant role.
Speaker 2: If you have somebody else that maybe.
Speaker 3: Can do some of that, yeah, I guess really, I
found myself trying to come up with reasons why they'll
be okay at least at least for the regular season
and the playoffs is a different thing. But I don't think
I feel like that's sort of like there's some cognitive
dissonance there because all season the knock has just been
he has to do too much, and when you lose
that guy, you can't. You have to bend pretty far
over backwards to say that it's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be okay. It just doesn't seem realistic.
Speaker 1: It's and even it's what if he comes back. I
know he's not missing a ton of time, but what
is recovery from a collapse? You know, when you're talking
about C. G. McCollum, I guess would be the best
analog because someone who does kind of play on the
ball but has never been the number one option for
a because who's if you look at the teams and
how many teams are more their their stock on being
a real team a contender, are predicated on one player
more than the Piston.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Not.
Speaker 3: I mean you can't even really say maybe, yeah, right
if you take this guy away, yeaheah, I mean that's
the only one. I mean, Jokic would be another one.
But yeah, it's it's it's up there, it's it's it's.
Speaker 1: Even Jamal Murray the way he's playing this season, right,
Like Jamal Murray to Aaron Gordon would be the Durn's
been really good this year. But you're feeling better about
Jamal Murray and Kay's absence than you are during Yeah, yeah, definitely,
Uh I did. This does confirm though, we gotta get
rid of the sixty five game role. I saw a
lot of this bugs me when it's but it shouldn't,
and that's why I don't dunk on it anymore when
I see it. Of the well, like if you look
at the last MVPs, like they've all played in the
equivalent of sixty five games or more. And it's I'm
not talking about MVP if it's if someone plays in
sixty three games and voters vote them to win MVP,
give them the license to do that. That's why if
you don't trust the voters, don't have them be voters.
I'm more so talking about all NBA specifically, we're gonna
get some weird ass teams this year. Potentially there's the
Anthony Edwards has played fifty eight games and he's gonna
be out for another week week and a half. Will
he get to sixty five CAD even falls one. I
think he's one or two games short of the If
this were a season ending injury, he could have played
in sixty two or something. He's at sixty one and
I think one of his games was under twenty minutes,
so it wouldn't have held. Look at everyone else who's
automatically like Kawhi Leonard or not automatically, but Kawhi Leonard
I think only has two games left. Evan Mobley only
two games left that he can miss, Wemby two games left,
Jokic one game left, and then think about everyone else who,
by virtue of these major injuries like Tyree's Haliburton, Jason
Tatum aren't eligible or people who are just flat out ineligible.
Steph Curry's not going to be on this. It's like,
what are we doing here, folks, And at least give
the freedom. I know this is a Zach loshpiel if
you're not gonna give it across all NBA, like make
it Zach Close's third team, make it second and third team.
If you need the first team to have some arbitradent
like these guys played.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think it's not always the most persuasive
angle to me in this type of argument, and this
argument specifically the idea of like, on some level, you
want the awards to sort of tell the story of
the season. You know, you want to be able to
look back and see who won MVP, who was All
NBA First Team, who won Defensive Player of the Year,
And in a lot of years you'd look back at
this one and say, if it's let's say the worst
happens and like Wemby misses enough games, and Jokic and
kid Now and like all these other guys, so your
all NBA First Team is just it's insane.
Speaker 2: It's like it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Have four of the five best players, and MVP is
who the fuck knows right to say, Shay missus g
he's further from the cutoff. But like it would create
a situation where the awards are just like so completely
non representative of what happened this season. If Wembin Yama
theoretically doesn't have an award at all for anything this season,
it's like, what the what else have you been talking
about all year other than he's just how Grady is
like okay, So then the answer is like, well, just
go look at the numbers and do some do your
research and all this other stuff. You'll realize that this
is the year Wemby popped and that's why the Spurs
wears good. But like, I would like the awards to
at least have some relationship to what happened all season
and tell the story of the season, and we're getting
much closer to it's gonna be misleading. You're gonna like
you're gonna think like, oh, I guess Wemby was overrated,
or like you know, it's just it's it's gonna create
a situation where it's just it's it's stupid, it doesn't
make any sense.
Speaker 1: All I will say is for people who are all
aboard the game's played train is that Tom Haverstrow has
been doing this thing recently where he posts what his
All NBA team would be for players who have already
appeared in sixty five games since rout the seventy game
mark that list grant first team beginning with first team
is rough. I think that I think he is making that.
I don't know if that's his intent. I don't put
he is making the most persuasive case of this rule
needs to be thrown in the junk and never spoken
of again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I just yeah. I've said it a million times.
I think voters can make a decision between a player
that played sixty seven games at level X and a
player that played just to really make it extreme sixty
at level why even fifty five? I don't know, like
you know wherever, whatever makes does it for you voters?
Speaker 1: You know who stands to benefit from this kid injury?
Though a little bit is it makes it more likely
jee and Duran makes an All NBA team and then
if he becomes eligible for the thirty percent match you
don't get if you give it to him as the Pistons,
and we're gonna have some conversations. But it does give
you the anecdotal play of going into negotiations. All right,
but I'll take the twenty five percent.
Speaker 3: Match right right, right right, which probably he shouldn't get that,
but it'll be it'll feel like a steal because he
could have gotten more. Yeah, it just I don't know
unintended consequences. Man, This was is just an ill conceived
rule that continues to I don't know who's happy with this.
Who thinks this is good?
Speaker 2: I haven't.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen anybody like, great, we're getting the correct
results because of the sixty five game rule.
Speaker 2: I have not seen that argument.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess when you're talking about MVP,
But like people have said, if if the games played
have never been an issue for the MVP, then why
do you need the threshold?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: It's because of TV money and they needed it for
the last TV deal and that's why they have the rule.
Speaker 1: That's that's what Speaking of money, grant, I talked about
this with moret But I like asking you questions about stuff.
I respect your opinion. At least forty seven percent of
the time. So, oh, it's how do you feel? How
do you feel about that? How do you feel about
the news of the NBA is likely going to expand
for the twenty twenty eight twenty twenty nine season into
presumably Seattle. And do you have any stray thoughts on
the on the matter you wanted to get off your chest.
Speaker 3: Oh, definitely good for Seattle Vegas. I could take or leave.
It's just a weird place to have a sports team.
Speaker 2: It always keep going.
Speaker 1: The Raiders and who's in the process of relocating there
now already for yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or the Athletics now I don't think
they go by the a's anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I I don't have a lot of thoughts
on it.
Speaker 3: I guess, I guess other than I'm happy that Seattle
is going to get a team, because it's never good
when a team gets ripped away. But that one really
got ripped away, so that's a positive. The most compelling
argument that I heard was the you know, it's reductive,
but this is a decision that is not geared towards
improving the product of NBA basketball as like a an
entertainment product, or like a it's not for the consumer
so much. It's for money and it's going to dilute
talent and all that other stuff. So like that, it's like, yeah, no,
that's right. There will be two more bad teams, there'll
be more bad basketball. The average talent level on each
team will drop. That's not great when you have a
third of the league that's not trying right now, maybe more,
that seems bad, But you know, it's you got to
follow the money, and this is it makes the league
bigger and more profitable, and you get some TV markets
in there, and that's that's the reasoning for it. I
don't so if you're trying to make the product better,
this isn't what you do. I don't think, even through
a long lens. So that that bothers me a little bit.
But this was this is the type of thing that
like I had already been convinced that this was going
to happen, So like, this latest announcement is not I'm
not considering things anew. This has been like a five
year thing where we assume this is going to happen.
Speaker 1: I agree that it's not for the product, but I
do think I tend to disagree with people who think
they're saying there's not enough talent to support it, because
there's a difference between how many key superstars are there
right now versus are we talking about B and C
level the stars or like fringe stars or whatever. I
recognize that, but I feel the importance, at least during
this like the era that we're leaning that we're into now,
the importance of having depth or a lack of weaknesses
has never been more prevalent, and so I do think
the NBA can handle expansion long term. That being said,
you're absolutely right that I don't think that's the driving force.
Whether it makes the league better, I think it could
increase parody. But the two things and I did talk
about this with more, is you need to figure out
more tanking prohibitions that I don't know what the answers
are gonna end up being, but you need to figure
that out. You also, because the league is gonna get
worse then when you're diluting talent, and in previous teams
coming in the league, they couldn't get these top picks
for the first two years they were there. And the
other thing now, I don't know if the new owners
actually are in favor of this because it limits what
they need to spend after just dropping what is it
between seven and ten billion dollars this time on expansion
fees the whole they only have sixty five percent of
the salary cap is a no. But if you want
to actually encourage parody or these teams not sucking for
the first, however many seasons of their existence, I would
think that they should just I think they should have
the full salary cap at their disposal and then require
them in the expansion draft to draft X amount of
money so they're just not going into free agency with yeah, well,
just we have one hundred million dollars in taskpace and we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna get Yeah. Yeah, you don't want that.
Speaker 3: You don't want that, like balloon number out there that feels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's rich coming from a Warriors fan.
Speaker 3: Just you know, the circle of twenty sixteen. What a time,
What a time, Dan, Everything was possible?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got living proof.
Speaker 2: That's funny. That's the very first name that entered my
head when I said twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: No, you know who's the first name. It's a first
name this time because Morret brought him up. But do
you know who's the first name that pops into my head?
And I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I want to guess, uh Nick Batom.
Speaker 1: No I was in the I thought that deal was
a steal. I thought the Blazers were so foolish that.
Speaker 3: They got a bunch of money. Mozgov is number one
for me. Who comes to your don mahe and me?
Speaker 2: That was, Oh my god, what did he get?
Speaker 1: It was the Timothy Mosgov deal.
Speaker 2: He did not get that big of adea.
Speaker 1: It was the war for six Oh, wasn't that what
ma got?
Speaker 3: That is what Moscov got. I did not realize Mahimi
got that much. That's insane, man, What a great time.
Speaker 1: What's time to be alive? Do you want to pick
our first question that will tackle? And it's not how
much did Yon Mahimi make? And I think he actually
might have even been in twenty seventeen free agency. I'm
gonna go look at up now.
Speaker 3: I think it should be okay, there, I had a
couple from when we were very first.
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 1: What is the yeah? So all right he got yeah,
I'm gonna I'm gonna follow this through now, right? He
got four and sixty four?
Speaker 2: Crazy?
Speaker 1: He signed it in twenty sixteen. That is so I
was right, that's the I.
Speaker 3: Wonder if he was. Do you have his basketball reference
up right now? Is that what you're looking at? No,
that's probably spot track. Uh. I'm curious if he outproduced
Mosgov over the life of that deal. I doubt it
because Mosgov was okay, wasn't he after the fact?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yon mihi me?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: So those were his last four seasons in the NBA
out Yeah, he and he never he only had one
season where he appeared because he was pretty banged up.
But there was only one season where he appeared in
more than thirty eight games.
Speaker 3: Gotcha, man, all right, you've given me enough time to
pick the question I want to pick. This is uh,
this from Maddy l and he asks, what is your
greatest what if scenario in NBA history?
Speaker 2: Now, I will concede that NBA history.
Speaker 3: Is probably riddled with like a billion really crazy what
ifs in the early days that probably affected weather basketball
as we know it, like ever would continue to exist.
Like there's definitely those kinds of things, you know, gambling
scandals and all that stuff, the ABA, NBA merger stuff,
all kinds of like I mean, what if the Celtics
weren't the team that like started playing African American players,
like you know, all this all this other stuff. I'm
going a little more contemporary. The one that immediately jumped
to me is what if Michael Jordan does not take
two years off in the in between winning three titles
in a row twice, because the one of the chief
goat arguments for him is that never lost in the finals.
You know, are are we then going to so two
possible outcomes if he doesn't take the baseball break. One,
the Bulls win eight straight championships and we probably don't
have anything approaching the debate between him and Lebron that
we have right now. The other one is he loses
in the finals once or twice, or doesn't make the
finals or something, or gets has.
Speaker 1: A major break up sooner, Yeah, they.
Speaker 3: Break up sooner, or it's just he's got this two
year window where no, you weren't indisputably the guy that
just could not be beaten. So I think like either
way that that what if, to me fundamentally changes forty
years of basketball discourse.
Speaker 2: Probably.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that one to me was was the very
I have some smaller ones but I'm curious where your
head went.
Speaker 1: So I thought I have another one, but I thought
you were gonna go here. This is my actual biggest
what if And maybe this is too contemporary because that's
more contemporary than yours. What if the Warriors had traded
Steph Curry to the Bucks.
Speaker 2: That's on my list. That's that's one of my other
two that i've.
Speaker 1: Yeah because that's the most recent dynasty and that the
like the Warriors aren't happening without Steph. And then it's
does Steph become Steph if he's on another team, and
does that team go on to have a dynasty? Does
he leave that team? I think about that trade at
least half a dozen times a year, the trade that
didn't happen, because it's there's all these inflection points and
little moments that it's the decisions that you don't or
the moves you don't make that could determine everything, even
the Warriors not trading Klay Thompson for Kevin Love, which
I was probably in I don't remember my stance on.
I was probably in favor of at the.
Speaker 3: Time I was was the Warriors alone?
Speaker 1: What if David Lee never gets You're paving a way
for Draymond Green.
Speaker 3: Well, here's the rotation, I mean, just to go with
the trade that you talked about. So it was it
was Monte Ellis or it was Steph, and it's there's
been different reports all along, but it does seem like
the divided Warriors decision makers like it was a majority,
but it was not unanimous decided we got to keep Steph.
There were definitely voices that said step should be the
one to trade for Andrew Bogett, by the way, who
was exactly the right type of player at the time
for a team that needed a defensive centerpiece and a
defensive identity, who was basically obsolete in the Warriors' best
lineups in like two years because Draymond Green at center
became the thing that made the Warriors what they were.
So it's like they dodged the bullet by picking the
right guy to trade for the guy that was the
right piece at the time, and yet that guy still
became something that like, well, this isn't part of our
best lineup anyway. Injuries were a factor, but like the
trickle down of that deal is wild because are the
Bucks is Giannis on the Bucks if Steph is there,
and yeah, that changes where they are in the draft.
Maybe Gianness was far enough down in the first round
that maybe they still get them.
Speaker 1: And doesn't that And what's interesting about that is so
your Jordan one not I'm not saying mine is better
than yours, but with your Jordan one, Jordan still just
goes down as no worse than the second best player.
Probably if the war, if Steph going to Milwaukee happens,
isn't there a chance we still need time to unfold
that we don't have two of what might be the
consensus top fifteen players in NBA history with those resumes,
Because Steph is verging on top ten, probably he's certainly
in the top fifteen. Giannis is gonna be there by
the time he retires, so maybe he turns into Giannis
wherever he goes. Maybe that's the flaw. But like there's
kind of the oh, do we not have a top
one of the ten greatest players fifteen greatest players in
NBA history? Resume that we ended up getting.
Speaker 3: Hm, Well, you wonder just yeah, right, does Steph get
the green light to just start shooting two hundred more
threes than anybody would shoot in a season.
Speaker 1: And then what does the game look like today?
Speaker 2: What's the game look like? Is it?
Speaker 1: Do we do do we sorry, do we view Damian
Lillard as the vanguard of that play style? Or is
does not even Damian Lillard play the way he does?
And so what happens to players like, you know, cause
Steph kind of like did we ever get to like
Steph paved the way for a certain type of like
you can't replicate Steph, but do we still get the
Luka Doncices and the Trey Youngs and the super ball
dominant guys who take these unhinged thro lameloture.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's a lot the I mean, is there
an arena in San Francisco?
Speaker 2: Like if if.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: Joel because the franchise value is basically Steph. So I
think the entire organization is in a very different state
if he's never there.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 3: That Like, what's Draymond Green's career look like if he
doesn't have the teammate you know for his abilities? I
there's I don't think he has anything close to the
reputation and like career achievements that it's that's okay, that's
a good one. What about uh even smaller scale, the
infamous uh KD toe on the line with Brooklyn three that.
Speaker 2: Was a two?
Speaker 1: Because are the still together if that goes away? Right?
Probably not?
Speaker 3: Maybe like life finds away, Kati and James Harden find
a way to like.
Speaker 2: Fuck up where they are.
Speaker 1: Couldn't we just even if k D and James Harden
go full k D and James Harden after that scenario,
do we have one of the most random one off
NBA champions in weak history?
Speaker 2: And right? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And and then we'd be right totally because you that
would have been pretty close on the heels of the
Kawhi and Toronto championship, which like feels kind of simpl.
Speaker 2: Like, really that was the thing that happened.
Speaker 3: Uh, I think, I think, like I think they would
have broken up eventually just because that's that's what happens. Yeah,
but they really might have won the title that year,
Like that is an absolutely possible uh outcome for that team.
And then like you just imagine, Okay, so it breaks
up at some future point, does Harden wind.
Speaker 2: Up with the Sixers and then the Clippers, does.
Speaker 3: He or whatever the order is does does Durant wind
up with Phoenix of all teams? Like does he go
somewhere else and maybe he wins a title there or
like it blows up differently.
Speaker 2: There's there's so many, Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: How about the putaries off of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? What happened?
Speaker 1: Title? They don't win the title? So is Giannis no
longer in Milwaukee? And where is he? I mean if
he's out of Milwaukee?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Good one?
Speaker 3: Those Those are those are my three that I had.
I had this stuff versus Monte trading there?
Speaker 2: Do you have any others?
Speaker 1: I do have another one, but I don't I don't
know if there's enough spinoffs here. But what if Kawhi
shot doesn't go in against the Sixers in twenty nineteen?
Are are we having because it's are we I don't
know if we're having a different conversation about Kawhi He's
probably still in La right, but do like what happens
with the Sixers versus the Bucks? Are we having a
different conversation about Joelle.
Speaker 2: Embiid a ring? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are we having a different conversation about Ben Simmons?
Speaker 2: Great one? Yeah, great one? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I mean of all the what ifs that's the
one that just feels like, well, the toe on the line,
but like that ball bouncing in is just I mean
talk about talk about the seemingly smallest thing or the
tiniest margin having a ripple effect. Yeah, that's a good one.
The one thing I am sure of is that Kawhi
does end up in LA. It's just like that was
gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't get as much out of that aspiration deal.
Speaker 2: Though, maybe there's no aspiration scandal.
Speaker 3: Maybe he winds up with the Lakers. Maybe that's what happens. Man,
so many things, so many that's.
Speaker 1: That's like not even just a entire podcast, that'd be
like an entire series. What is every team's biggest what if? First?
Speaker 2: What if? For sure?
Speaker 1: Uh my turn, let's do Okay, this is well, let's
go with nicole Ja cole Levi and this will bleed
into a question from local nomad grant Stefan Castle or
Aman Thompson.
Speaker 3: I think if you'd ask me before this season, it
probably would have been It definitely would have been Thompson.
I'm I'm moving over to Castle. I think I think
there's more pure point guard stuff in his game. I
think there's more offensive upside in his game.
Speaker 2: The shooting, to me is less of.
Speaker 3: A concern with Castle than it is with Thompson. With Thompson,
it feels.
Speaker 1: Is that because he's shooting over forty percent from three,
since the AUSO does that have anything to do with that.
Speaker 2: Has a little bit to do with it.
Speaker 3: Thompson's shooting just feels almost unfixable, whereas Castle his volume
is better. Like I don't feel quite as I don't
feel hopeless when when Castle shoots a three. With Thompson,
it's just like this is just there's no point or
even really kind of any any kind of jump shot.
So in favor of Thompson, I guess is the positional versatility,
the bigger, greater size. I'm probably more athletic, but it's
like it's not it's at least it's it's not a conversation.
Thompson is more athletic, but Castle is an an A
level athlete. It's just Thompson is an A plus plus.
Speaker 1: But when you look at the way and I know
that Amen has some counters, but when you look at
the way that Steph Castle moves on the ball, and
maybe I overthink guys who are not. I don't know
if there is a comparison for Amen Thompson's nuclear level
of athleticism, but I don't view athleticism as a negative.
But I'm constantly in the back of my mind wondering, well,
how long is this guy's prime? Oh gonna last?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Like the skill level has to be there. You
know we always say, like big guys and you know
that aren't Like Jokich is the example, Like he should age. Fine,
he's gonna get slower, but like he's got so much
touch and skill like Steph Hill age Fine, he's got
so much skill, even a guy like Kyrie honestly, but yeah,
if it's just run and jump, that's that's that's a
short shelf life.
Speaker 2: Really, So yeah, that's so. Are you Castle? I don't
don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I which I don't think I would have been
coming into the year, but he's shown. I think he's
just shown to have more levels on the offensive end
at this point.
Speaker 3: I also think totally unscientific. I think Castle is like
a like a pathological competitor, like he's like a sicko competitively,
and Thompson doesn't care as the Thompson Thompson Thompson wants
it less.
Speaker 2: I guess, oh.
Speaker 3: What else he's uh, he's only giving one hundred and
nine percent instead of one hundred and ten.
Speaker 2: So that's that's a that's a black mark in the
in the ledger for him.
Speaker 1: This is a spinoff question of this kind of but
from local Nomad. Given the CBA restrictions, are you concerned
about the lack of offensive progress from the Thompson Twins.
As a Pistons fan, I watch more ASR than I'm men,
But it seems to be a notable thread that defenses
can pull on come playoff time. Thanks as always, Thank
you Local moment, Thank you.
Speaker 3: I mean that this is it's been at least ten
years that this has been an issue. Guys that are
very good at a few things, it's usually defense, rebounding, athleticism, physicality,
and then can't shoot. And that's what we're dealing with here.
So it's not really like a new problem. I would say,
if anything, these types of players are becoming less valuable.
I don't know when they peaked in value. Like you
can make the case that like let's say you just
you just rewound by eight or ten years and Aman
Thompson is on the peak hard and rockets, like his
value there is not that great either, because they just
went five out and Harden attacked and you had to
be able to make catch and shoot threes. I think
now though defenses have only gotten smarter, the exploitation of
weaknesses has only gotten more pronounced, and so CBA wise
like that just makes it so you really you can't
overpay anybody and get away with it, and now you
it's probably worse. It's probably worse for these guys now
than it would have been years ago. Don't you think
like you just can't because if you overpaid them, you
could get away with like we're paying for the potential,
like look at all the crazy things these guys can do.
But then the counter is just like I don't think
they're ever going to be able to shoot, and so
there's a possibility there literally worthless in a playoff series
if you're trying to go anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I think you could look at completely different player,
but consider someone who did more things on the ball,
like a Ben Simmons and now his career sort of
fell apart injury related. For sure, I'm with you on
everything you said, and it's you I don't think these
are like I'm and Thompson and a star Tom's I
wonder if in the past would they not have been
developed as playmakers specifically like they were, because you can't
there's no more. You can't have an Andre Roberson or
Tony Allen in today's NBA. You certainly can't have them
on the floor during playoff time. And I think even
wouldn't it be like Steph Castle, Does he fall into
this bucket at all for you? Yes, he's shown the
signs of the three point shooting and he has more
of just mid range touch in general. But if you're
getting to a point where you like he needs to
be a bit like what is the level of shooter?
You need to be, like the bare minimum level of
shooter to say, if you have these other elite skills,
you can be viewed as a cornerstone. Is does Lou
Dort or Marcus Smart?
Speaker 2: Would you funny you mentioned Dort?
Speaker 3: I've just that's the name that came to mind first
because I've been thinking about him. This is the guy that
shot forty one point two percent from three last year
and still was like a player that Now part of
this is because the thunder are who they are. But
I think still most playoff defenses will be like, oh, good,
Dort is shooting on this possession. That's good, and he
made for over forty percent. Now he's at thirty three.
And I'm thinking to myself as I'm looking at the
Thunders postseason prospects, like why on earth would you play
him over Caruso and Wallace and Jada of if you
had those guys, because you got to guard those other
guys differently.
Speaker 2: It's just that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 3: So I say that to illustrate the idea that Dort
was a forty plus percent three point shooter and and
and even he even at that level because he just
wasn't someone I think defenses took seriously.
Speaker 2: They were happy when he shot. So like, I don't,
I don't know what the number.
Speaker 3: It's case by case, I guess is the cop out answer,
But I would I feel confident saying the level of
shooting required to offset like I guess anotherwise one dimensional
kind of or like the absence of some dimension is
higher than it's ever been. I just I just think
every defense is more predatory and more willing to ignore
guys that can't shoot it. So I don't know what
that I couldn't give you a percentage because as we talk
about it all the time, it's not just the percentage
that they go in.
Speaker 2: It's like how often is the guy shooting?
Speaker 1: It's the volume, yeah, and is the is it still.
Speaker 3: A preferable alternative to what else you might give up
by like defending him honestly.
Speaker 1: And it's what types of threes are they? Because if
it's just why, it's not even just are they wide open?
Like if you're hitting off the dribble threes all of
a sudden, that's gonna shift the way that you're.
Speaker 2: Guarded totally totally. That pulls.
Speaker 3: So Josh Hart's another example we talk all the time
about if Josh Hark goes like seven for nine from
three in game one of a playoff series, I don't
think a defense changes anything in game two of that series.
Speaker 1: It just and is there when people also say, I
am people to want to make this clear When people
also say, well, if he just fixes the shooting or
like he starts hitting threes, who's the player where they
came in as a limited shooter and then you like
they started hitting odd ball like self created threes.
Speaker 2: That's a great question that should you should submit that
to a mail bag.
Speaker 1: That would have been a great question till just now.
But I'm trying. I don't there's no there's certainly not
an analog for someone like Aman Thompson just all of
a sudden knocking down, you know, three plus draw, but
like creating his own three point three pointers on the
regular even I'd like, I don't know, like could Steph
Castle even do something like that.
Speaker 3: So a name just came to mind, and I'm now
looking it up to see if it's legit. So Kyle
Lowry as a rookie barely play one shot thirty seven percent,
played all eighty two games. This second year shot twenty
six percent from three played seventy seven games, his third
year twenty five, twenty six percent, twenty seven percent, and
then in his age twenty four season shoots thirty seven
percent and is a guy that defenses care about for
the rest of his career and eventually like kind of
becomes defined in.
Speaker 2: A lot of ways offensively by pull up threes.
Speaker 3: That's a massive exception to the rule because because Ben
Simmons is the other stream of like, well, what if
he wants. He's working on it, what if he develops it?
Just I think nine times out of ten, it's not happening.
So Castle Castle, If Castle becomes like a over a
full season, a legitimate three point threat, that you you're
worried that he's left open, especially because of how dangerous
he is getting downhill, like that's always gonna make it
like a jump shot probably will be preferable for him.
Speaker 2: If he's a forty percent shooter.
Speaker 3: Somehow like he He'll have to be the exception too,
because it doesn't there's not a lot of Kyle Lowry
career trajectories. Your turn, all right, how about I pick
when at random? How about all right?
Speaker 1: You close your eyes like you just the mouse scribbling?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I just circled it around like you're
pointing out He's spin a globe and you point at it.
Speaker 2: Uh. This is from.
Speaker 3: Wandering when uh is Scoot gonna be a real cornerstone
point guard? I'll start by saying we haven't had the
best sample to evaluate because of injuries. I think I'm
prepared to say no, I don't see in one the
league is kind of shifted, uh in that the smaller
pure point guard he's not super small, but the the
that player type you got to be so good, Like
what are the cornerstone point guards right now? Like you
might have said Darius Garland, it's a player like that
just to use like a mid mid tier example.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's how he's viewed. He was just traded.
Speaker 3: Like I'm struggling, like, who are the point guards that
are the you're laughing, but this, this whole question is
just to put that on a t for you, like
Tyrese Maxi.
Speaker 2: But even I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking traditional guard is a power forward.
Speaker 3: So yeah, like I think the league is moving away
a little bit, like even like you're Edwards, you're Mitchell's
you know, yeah, I guess those guys aren't really ones Scoots.
I don't see a scenario where Scoot is a is
a combo guard or a two that's not really that
wasn't part of the building.
Speaker 1: He could not He doesn't move the same way. But
he could have the profile of a Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 3: Okay, but he doesn't move the same way. So you know,
I'm I'm skeptical. I don't I don't think it's there.
It's so early, and all I do every year is
try to tell myself not to like form a conclusion
on a player that's not twenty five yet.
Speaker 2: But if you're asking the question, I don't. I don't
quite see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's done a better job from what I've seen
this season, finishing at the basket, getting stronger there. Turnovers
can still be an issue, but I think that I
look at him and when he gets into the paint,
I feels as if he should be able to run
an offense, or at least be able to put two
feet in the paint and make a play from there.
Work with Donovan Clinton, who's who's a two level scorer? Now, Grant,
I don't know if you've noticed he's in at the rim,
you got a two? He might on some nights. He's
still a one level scorer. And the one level is
the three point scoring. No, that's potentially problem, but he's
been a monster. But I don't think he's gonna get there.
And also here's a follow up question, Uh, do the
Blazers view him as one? He has started? He did,
he doesn't start. He's started. He started three games. He
hasn't been available this year. We started three games this year.
When we start ten to eleven last year. Moret and
I actually just went over this when we were talking
about his extension. So do they view him as one
and the real they're gonna have to decide or or
will know more? I guess this summer because he is
extension eligible, but also going into next season, you have
him in theory Denny Avdya, Shane and Sharp, Drew Holliday
and Damian Lillard, like what is the like, what's the
p what's the pecking order supposed to?
Speaker 3: Maybe it's the same question we entered this year with,
except we didn't know Avdia would for most of this
season look like a first option creator. So it's it's
I think it's so this is still Scoot's age twenty
one season, the fact that he's not starting for a
team that's under five hundred, Like you can't. I think
we're deep enough into it, even though it's still early
to to fairly firmly say the Blazers are not treating
him like that type of player. So, and it'd be
different if I'm trying to think of another scenario where
it's like who, I don't know, it's like when a
It's like when Aaron Rodgers got to Green Bay and like,
he was obviously great, but Brett Farv was there.
Speaker 2: There's no Brett Farv in this hypothetical, and like, and the.
Speaker 3: Blazers are not playing a ton of high level games
where you just can't afford to have the young guy
out there.
Speaker 2: So maybe like this is a.
Speaker 3: Situation where if Scoot were really showing like Cornerstone upside,
he would be playing more right now, because it's not
like there's you know, true greats ahead of him.
Speaker 1: Is there like one thing, because there there I think
there's a few things, But is there one thing that
if he did this it would make you feel as if, oh,
that chance is still there.
Speaker 3: I think the problem is that there there isn't any
area of his game where you're like, well, at least
he's got this carrying skill.
Speaker 1: So it's like I'm reversing your question. It's like, what's
his defining skills?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't.
Speaker 3: See anything where it's like, Okay, this is a problem,
and that's a problem, but this is great. I have
no doubt he's going to be awesome at this, and
it just fill in around it. I don't know what
the awesome at this thing is yet, So.
Speaker 1: For me now, And maybe it's also problematic because this
wasn't supposed to be what he did. But now the
ways that he get When he first came in, you
would have thought he got to the basket by just
being faster than everybody. Correct. I did think that, Yeah,
he's getting to the basket in different ways, in part
because he's had some like ankle issues, but like now
he's using physicality and like that strength to get to
the basket and so being able to do that if
he had so, this would then if I'm picking a skill,
if you could trust the pull up jumper, and he's
at forty four percent on half court pull up twos,
he's at thirty four percent on half court pull up threes.
If those each of those numbers were like six percent, well,
like the twos were around fifty percent and the threes
are like thirty eight percent in the volume ticked up,
where do we trust him to be? That also might
be The other thing is ken Scoot could continue to
be more aggressive as a school, like what what type
of floor general are you?
Speaker 2: Right? Are you?
Speaker 1: What are you looking to set up everybody else? And
he's still sort of it fluctuates between those two existences,
and I think when he's aggress when he's aggressive like himself,
that looks most natural to me, more so than when
he's because it's not. He's not an I wouldn't call
him an A plus passer. He's never shown like the
Jahn Morant type of things or even the Derrick Rose
type of passes.
Speaker 3: I think, just in fairness to him, the Blazers have
basically never put enough shooting around their guards to get
a good sense, you know. And it's a lot like
the LaMelo you know, Hey, but you know, situational stuff
that we would throw out there. I do that that,
I mean that might be the reason that he Yeah,
I just I just don't know. The situation is not
ideal his play again, I don't know what the carrying
skill is right now. It's still other than like potential
like that that, you know. I do still believe there's
protect maybe there's something in there, but yeah, there isn't.
Speaker 2: There isn't a one.
Speaker 1: So he's first team all mystery box or first team
all could be anything.
Speaker 3: For you if you lose your mystery box status. I
think he still has some, but he's running out a
little bit. The mystery box doesn't feel as heavy as
it used to. There's less in it.
Speaker 1: Uh my turn. Let's do this question from Susie b.
This feels like a magic eight ball question. But do
you think the Cavs will make it to the Eastern
Conference Finals this season? I think they're gonna. I mean
it might be predicated on, well, it will be predicated
on I don't know if you would prefer them to
have I mean, will the Piston still be in first place?
But I think at this rate they're in a goods
with the four to five, you would avoid Boston in
round two, right. I think that's the route they should
want to go. And I think the big thing is
we have questions about them. We've gone through. There's the
wing defense. The defense is now below average. When Evan
Mobley's on the floor with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden,
there's a lot to cover up. Now. This is another team, though,
that just can't seem to get to its core lineups
because they're never healthy. Max Trews is back, Jared Allen
is injured. There you go, you know what I mean?
So what I am? What I was worried about? And
I can't remember the writer on Fear of the Sword,
who had done a breakdown of the issues between Evan
Mobley and James Harden and the pick and roll versus
Jared Allen and Jared Allen and James Harden the pick
and roll the last game I saw of Mobley and
Harden playing together. There's chemistry there now to where James
Harden isn't immediately going into the lane when Mobley slips
the screen or sets the screen. He just doesn't operate
like that because so many times James Harden's is way
too out in front of the play or there's not
a pathway for them to explore. And I think Mobley
has quietly just been better and more aggressive on offense.
I think the Cavs offense, this is all to say,
is gonna be fine. It's gonna be dynamite. We know
James Harden's playoff numbers through these pivotal games if you
look at Game sixes and sevens. With that being said, defensively,
I don't like Dean Wade or Jalen Tyson or even
a Sam Merrill is gonna have to do a lot
of heavy lifting, or you need Kean Ellis sam Merrill
again or Dennis Shruder, like, are they gonna guard up?
I think overall, your defense can maybe be fine if
you have both of your bigs available, but you don't
play dual big every game, and there are some or
not every game, but for forty eight minutes a game,
there are also some matchups where how often can you
even get to it or should you get to it?
And so that that's my biggest question for the Cavs
is still sort of focused on their wing defense. And
this isn't to say by the way it's been I
won't say exacerbated. It's been complicated by having neither Isaaca
Coro nor DeAndre Hunter. But those two guys, to be clear,
weren't the answer. A Coro played off the floor offensively.
Hunter's just he's six' eight and that's why he's viewed
as a. Solution it's not anything that he actually. Does
and if he wasn't gonna be healthy, either you, Know
Max struce could be a better answer Than DeAndre hunter.
Defensively SO i don't you really need like it feels
Like Dean wade needs to play a bunch and be
healthy in the playoffs for the defense to be good.
Enough OTHERWISE i think that's gonna be and maybe that's
enough to get you out of The, east but it's
definitely not they were my pick to come out of
The east this. Year i'd have a hard time picking
them against a few of The Western conference contenders.
Speaker 3: For, sure As i'm if we dispense with the matchups
and just sort of power Rank east teams that we
believe have the best chance to make the conference. FINALS
i think at this Point boston is the number one for,
me which feels, insane but here we. Are i'm assuming
That cunningham will be fine for the, playoffs and SO
i Guess detroit still sits two for, me and Then,
CLEVELAND i GUESS i LIKE i don't know IF i
Like cleveland more than The.
Speaker 2: Knicks maybe a little. Bit maybe a little.
Speaker 3: Bit So cleveland to me feels like the third most
likely conference finalist in The, east but it is still
really just to, me it's really just a class of.
Four so being third is not is.
Speaker 1: Not that, Great, no it's it's not. Great and you,
ALSO i said it's all about Avoiding, boston but they're
when you look at the Physical If detroit is fully,
healthy the physicality with which they. Play isn't a great
matchup For cleveland and you go look you go up
against you look at their rebounding numbers against some of The,
knicks the even The, celtics The, pistons they're not. Great
SO i don't know that there's a matchup within the
top four THAT i would feel excellent about with The.
Cavs But i'm sticking with my preseason. Pick AND i
do think it's encouraging that the, offense because you Know
James harden's gonna be. Available that was a question mark
With Darius garland and if the chemistry between him And mobiley's,
there and more, importantly If mobley's gonna be as aggressive
as he's, been that's that's a huge.
Speaker 3: Boom, yeah all, right there's a couple here FROM. BJP
i THINK i think the first one is gonna is
trickier to, Answer so LET'S i want to go with
this this middle one, here Since silver thinks it's, Tanking,
uh when that doesn't crack the top, ten what do
you think is the number one problem facing THE nba right?
Speaker 2: Now first of, all do you think it's?
Speaker 3: Tanking Because i'm not ready to dismiss that out of,
hand as not being the biggest.
Speaker 1: Problem, NO i don't think it's. TANKING i think that's
just front and center because of the time of year right,
now and it's just it's gonna. Be it might be
the league think it's problem ahead of certain draft.
Speaker 3: Classes, OKAY i THINK i think saying it's tanking.
Speaker 2: IS i guess it's a broader.
Speaker 3: Thing and maybe Maybe i'm telling on myself and this
isn't how everybody, feels but but also maybe it. IS
i just think it's just the length of the season
which makes it so that too much of it feels
like it doesn't matter or feels like because this is
Where i'm, At i'll just say right now. Sucks like
when you're looking for games to watch every, NIGHT i
hate it because The I'M i feel lucky if there's
one every night, now one game where it's a two
good teams that are trying and b that have everybody
healthy or at least are only missing, someone aren't missing
their best player or two of their three best or.
Whatever that to me is a symptom of the league
not adjusting the season length to the increased riggor required
to PLAY nba, basketball and just there's too many all that.
Stuff so tanking is part of that because tanking is
large is the reason that so many of these games
are just, like, Well i'm not watching that one, TONIGHT.
Speaker 2: I.
Speaker 3: Think So i'm not ready to say tanking is not
in the top. TEN i think it's a huge, Problem
like it's fundamentally bad if winning isn't the. Goal BUT
i think it's part of a bigger, issue which is
like the product itself is not good often and doesn't
feel meaningful. Often that's that's tanking's rolled into.
Speaker 2: It but it's not this singular.
Speaker 1: Thing my issue Is I'M i Guess i'm gravitating towards
the problems THAT i know the league might try and.
Fix they're just never going to shorten the season because
even the case if they're gonna with expansion coming now
would be the case for can you do something and
drop down the get, like cause you're gonna gain back
a ton of. Games could you drop it to sixty,
six but then you're still losing what a couple of
hundred games there that THE nba is just never gonna do,
That and so that's it is the length of the
schedule is. There can you make it? Better and keep
eighty two games by weeding out back to. Backs does
that make the season any better or? No are you
just extending the window of the season at that point
and shortening the off. Season it feels like the biggest current,
problem aside from people complaining about the like fouls and
the way that certain players are officiated against, others would
be is there a way to actually like improve, that
like what would? Be it's NOT i don't know if
it's a, rule but is there a way to get
people so like to de emphasize that there is inequality
in how players are being. Officiated is there is there
a different type of coverage you could game or does
there need to be different rules in? Plays and by?
Way some of the big problems for me are just
they don't impact. EVERYTHING i hate that team's foul up
three InCred like. That there should be a way to
weed that, out like that should be an auto free
throw on the ball back if you do. That but
this just feels Like i've noticed it more this year
that people are frustrated by the, officiating which when you're
dealing with human and human, error there's going to be
a level of inconsistency. There BUT i see, more not
even just, fans but people that cover teams suggesting that
the way games are, officiated or the way certain players are,
officiated are it influence heavily, influencing if not outright defining
or shifting entire. Outcomes and that's an idea THAT i
just flat out. Reject but how do you make it
so that's not the. IMPRESSION i don't have a solution for,
it BUT i think that's a huge. Problem is the
way the fans consume the game is a lot of.
It and maybe this is just people who are still
on social, media and if you're On twitter and you're
seeing stuff that's, posted there just seems to be a
level of disdain for THE nba that fans of other,
sports Even Major League, baseball don't necessarily.
Speaker 3: Have SEE I i think that that's not AN nba.
PROBLEM i think that is a social media. Problem and
like the way that every algorithm is tuned to hope
it outraged everything if it's supposed to outrage you or
make you upset or, whatever like that's just how it.
Works SO i feel that, too, Though like you, said
what you said was it seems like that everyone's upset
about this to a disproportionate. Degree and the part of,
that the problematic part of that is it does seem that.
WAY i don't know if it actually is that, way
or if that's just what we're being served a lot
because of the little silos that we live in with
respect to basketball.
Speaker 2: STUFF i WOULD i would also say THAT i think
opposing teams executives players complaining about the type of whistle
that certain guys get is as old as. Basketball, LIKE i.
Speaker 1: Just it's gagmanship that's being disseminated a.
Speaker 3: Ship there have always been players that are harder to
officiate than. Others that's, different Very that fact is very
different to me than the assertion that there's an agenda driving. This,
LIKE i just think some guys are hard to, officiate
some teams are hard to officiate. AGAINST i am not
persuaded that there's any sort of like nefarious conspiracy to
promote PLAYER x over PLAYER, Y and if there was,
one choosing a guy In Oklahoma city would not be
less of, Like, wow this is really going to grow the?
Speaker 2: League Is we're gonna make so much money off of?
This that's.
Speaker 3: Dumb, YEAH i don't view that type of thing as
AN nba PROBLEM i think if you WHAT i WHERE
i could get on board is like the weaponization of
the off arm on drives by offensive. Players that's a
problem because that's actually a foul.
Speaker 1: As A knicks. Fan as A knicks, fan you.
Speaker 2: Need less legislation on.
Speaker 3: That you, also you've said to me in it that
you believe that if a player under six foot two
gets knocked over at any, point that's a.
Speaker 2: Foul, well why do.
Speaker 1: You Think Jalen brunson leads the league in? Charge That's that's.
Speaker 3: What i'm alluding. To it Does it does seem like
he's very good again.
Speaker 1: Cover that might be another one is we need to
get rid of like the offensive like expand the restricted
area like the semi. Circle, yeah because that stuff.
Speaker 3: Something with the block charge could could be uh lighting
lightning around other.
Speaker 2: Problems that's just coming to.
Speaker 1: Me, well actually this isn't even a lightning. Round they
killed free. Agency there's god like you built your entire
brand around transactions like what and THE CBA i think
just gave owners way too much cover. TOO i know
every summer there's stats out there that, say, well like
the money being thrown around is the same and it's
something is. Different MAYBE i can't put my finger on
about the way these teams are operating and the level
of selling or just cost. Cutting we saw it this
year's past, deadline like more teams than just They've you've
instituted a hard. Cap that's what you, did and so
either call it a hard cap or. Don't but, LIKE i,
Don't i'm curious as To i'm not gonna say that
we're done seeing teams going to the Second apron because
it's actually probably gonna happen next. Season but it's like
The calves are gonna what this Will they're gonna spend
this season in the Second? Apron that's gonna be? It
will they go into it Next like will The thunder
stay in it next? Year will The knicks enter it next?
YEAR I i'm just Not this is a lot of it's,
anecdotal BUT i, Don't, Like i'm not a fan of
what THE cba has, done AND i MISS i missed
like the way free agency there was a level of
mystery and now it's just all pre agency and.
Speaker 3: Extensions, YEAH i, mean maybe the best way to frame
what you're talking about is, like what what can you
point to in the NEW. Cba that is a clear
improvement over how things used to, Be, like what's the,
oh this is a great positive. Consequence so, LIKE i
don't know if there's Anything i'm, LIKE i can't think
of a. Thing it's it's either neutral or there's there's
issues with like really fundamentally teams being punished for the
thunder or of the team for building the right way
like through the draft and all this other. Stuff like
it's just you're gonna have to make concessions at some.
Point small two smaller. Things one the replay. System it
takes too, long the ends of games. INTERMINABLE i, mean
it's just it's small in the, sense like it's not
a new.
Speaker 2: GRIPE i.
Speaker 3: DO i do think it's important to get calls right
at a base level like way to do, it, Though
there's got to be a quicker. Way there's got to
be just more limitations on on maybe the.
Speaker 2: NUMBER i don't. Know they already have limited the number of.
CHALLENGES i, think like you can watch un limited.
Speaker 3: Challenges there need to be there need to be fewer
timeouts allowed in the last couple of. MINUTES i know
that's kind of when you need, them BUT i JUST
i can't take that we're back from break and another
time out and we're then there's a, chance like these
games are getting difficult to watch towards the. End the other,
ONE i so the way that the flagrant foul situation is,
OFFICIATED i think is broadly, Good like because you want
like non you want you want plays legislated out of
the game that are where that makes you, like what
the fuck was? That like that wasn't a that wasn't
a bad like we're not playing, basketball like the low door.
Trip i'm totally fine with that being officiated the way
it was On, jokic because, like what are you, Doing
like that's not you're not playing, basketball that's that's something.
Else the other thing is sort of that's a tangent forget.
Speaker 2: Even now what game it WAS i was.
Speaker 3: Watching it was basically a breakaway lay up attempt or
a dunk and the defender came from behind and kind
of jumped around but swung.
Speaker 2: Down it was a.
Speaker 3: Foul it Was it wasn't a hard, foul but it
was a player that was in the air on offense
trying to, score being like contacted at a dead run
in the air from, behind AND i just kind of
it made me, think LIKE i don't think there's any
scenario where where an offensive player that cannot see you
coming you can hit him in the air from. Behind
that should be a flagrant every time because that's just
like so preposterously dangerous and the risk of injury is so,
High like does it does it make it so you're
gonna see fewer cool chase down blocks because guys are
worried about a flagrant foul if they, Try like, maybe
but if it prevents these like incredibly dangerous, plays because
that's not it wasn't a flagrant. Foul it's not always
a flagrant foul if you're if it's a behind like
chase down body contact kind of. Foul it was such
a scary play that it just as we're lightning. Rounding
it makes me think we got to figure something out
about like the it's like the defenseless receiver thing in.
Football it's like you just can't like hit a guy
that can't protect himself or doesn't see you.
Speaker 2: Coming that feels like it should be a rule.
Speaker 1: Because also maybe. Something don't change The All star format
every three seconds just because they called this everyone The
All Star game this, year you're that ended up being.
Good but do you remember the same thing was said
after the elam ending was implemented and then like a
year or, like, no this is. Awful it just some
years are gonna be. Good some years are gonna be.
BAD i also this is this is another anecdotal. One
there needs to be a way to do a better
job of like promoting the entire. League doesn't, it don't?
You sort of there's too much resting on we keep talking,
about like what's gonna happen after we don't need a
face of the, league but. Doesn't why why does it
feel like everything is so tied to players rather than,
teams or if you're looking at the NATIONAL tv, schedule
why so much of it is tied to specific teams
over the ENTIRE nba and some of the some of
the could be, good like under the radar games or
scheduled so late in the year that there's all these
injuries and you're not even getting to see if it's
going to be like A Magic pistons. Matchup they're. Not
it's not happening at full. Strength, YEAH i.
Speaker 3: Think LIKE i, GUESS i guess it goes back To
jordan or so people would say that where it's the
league figured out through him that an individual is just
way easier to market than a, team you, know instead of.
Laundry it's like here's a, Face like here's a guy
that we can then mythologize and like build up as
something more than just a dude that wears the same certain.
JERSEY i think that's part of. It we've never really
gotten away from. That do you Not this is kind
of a tangent, too but, like do you not find
yourself not worrying but wondering what it's gonna be like
when we're through The steph lebron Kd era and like
what who the marquee guys in the league are? Going
it's probably Just, wemby but like BECAUSE i find maybe
it's just getting, older But i'm, like that's sad that
those three.
Speaker 2: Guys are on the way out, right at various.
Speaker 3: Stages of on the way, out and they've defined the
league for In lebron's, case twenty years and in the
other guys like fifteen a good fifteen that do you
not do you not catch Yourself LIKE i don't if
it's nostalgia or, whatever it's.
Speaker 1: NOSTALGIA i JUST i don't view, IT i guess as
much of a crisis because there's still so much top
end talent and if you're exposed To, wemby but some
of the other players who are insane or even it's
just why Does Jason tatum like have a Low like
why is it having him as a top five? Player
if Like Kevin duran And Lebron james are aging, Out,
like why is he less of a draw than those?
Guys it might be it maybe that speaks to like
how younger people might be consuming or following the sports,
Specifically BUT i don't look at the league and think
it's bereft of top end. Talent it's it's just there's. Nostalgica,
Yeah i'm getting sad that what DID i say this
on the other parts Of lebron's battle to arthritis s
And siadka in the same. SEASON i feel ancient and it's.
Sad but just knowing, that, well how many more seasons Of,
steph Of katie Of lebron do we? Have that that's
a bummer for. Sure do you view it as it
as a, Crisis.
Speaker 3: No because it's just the the someone steps in and
it doesn't even matter if they're like objectively better than
the previous, generation which probably they will, be because that's how progress.
Works but LIKE i think a lot now about how
did you read that article about how like the whole
mamba thing like ad campaign and whatever That kobe wound
up with was originally planned For jordan and he didn't
like it or something, happened and so they're like they
trotted it back out For kobe years, later and he's, like,
yeah and that's his whole that became like his entire.
Identity so that's just to say that like marketing can put,
anybody you, know it's it's not like a it's not
like a one to a perfect, fit like if you
if you have A it's not like the league will
be bereft of, talent Right like someone will be the
best player in the league in five, years whoever that,
is and we'll think of them that, way and it's you,
know it'll just it just there's a sense there's a
renewal that happens all the. Time and like kids that
are ten and twelve years old right now that don't
have the same attachments and feelings Towards steph AND kd
And lebron that we, Do they'll be, like it's perfectly
normal That Anthony edwards And Victor Wembin yama And Jason
tatum And Kate cunningham are the guys for this.
Speaker 2: Generation that won't be weird to.
Speaker 1: THEM i do wonder how much of it could be
because of the longevity OF kd And lebron And, steph
like What yannis And jokic have been made us not feel,
like have made us feel the renewal more than they even.
Have because, now when you think about, IT i feel
as if a lot of people will be, like, Oh
wemby arrived in the nick of, time because LIKE kd
And steph And lebron are on their way out And
wemby's become the marquis viewing and It's we've Had giannis
And jokic for, like operating at the peak of their
powers for a decade or more at this. Point but
Because lebron And STEPHAN kd have been, around are they
part of? This are a lot of the guys Part
even if you wanted to Throw Donovan mitchel Or tatum himself,
in there have been a part of this weird in
between range where you needed the someone new as these
guys were. Exiting and that's Why Victor, WEBBIN i, Mean
Victor mbanyama is. Incredible but is he such a breath
of fresh air because he's coming at a time when
fans THE nba have no choice but to come to
terms with the, departures the career mortalities Of, Lebron katie And. Steph,
yeah that's.
Speaker 3: An interesting aspect of. IT i guess the counter would be, like,
well isn't this generations like top class gonna play eighteen
or twenty years?
Speaker 2: Too like why Wouldn't why wouldn't they.
Speaker 1: Already that that generation's? Class your Kidchen giannis are in their. Thirties,
Yeah Don mitchell'll say the same.
Speaker 3: Deal, well but, then SO i do think what does
resonate with me is is THE O wemby's arriving at
the right time type of. Thing is not so much
because we got to have a face of the league
type of. Thing it's more that we were due for
someone that would change the sport Because curry did that
and now the sport is very different and because like
he did stuff that just wasn't, done and Wembin yama
is one hundred percent in that mold where he just
does things that weren't not done before and so who
knows which direction the game will go because of. That Before,
steph you could make the case that it Was jordan
that just like the idea of the THE i don't
know it just the pure shooting guard like The helios
whatever whatever it was magic kind Of before, that there's
always a guy LIKE i don't know what the average
year like time span is between the, like, oh he
that's different type of. Guy wemby feels like the first
player Since steph that like that label applies To do.
Speaker 1: You agree with?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: Like is there Someone i'm missing Between steph And? Wemby
that sort of Forced harden had.
Speaker 2: A hand in.
Speaker 1: It when you look At helio, centrism.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe maybe he well or that that never won you,
anything that didn't win. Anything it's like The steph. Thing
they want a first class ticket.
Speaker 1: TO la out of. Doubt he hasn't won shit.
Speaker 3: Either, YEAH i THINK i Think wemby has arrived at
the right time in that. Sense should We, okay we
got to. IT i wanted to do this other, one
and we're gonna have to brainstorm here Because this is
a really good question also FROM. Bjp which current bench
slash role player is most likely to take The Derek
white leap parenthetical a star but not in the conventional
ball dominant.
Speaker 2: Way So Derek white is.
Speaker 3: We are The, celtics talk him up playing The, celtics
came from The, spurs had a cool dunk in A
spurs playoff series one.
Speaker 2: Time that was my first real memory of.
Speaker 3: HIM i don't know what The Derek white leap is
other than to say he established himself as someone that
is hugely impactful on winning on both, ends but no
one would call him a. Star but then you look
up most of the catch alls and he's like a
top ten guy, more you, know as often as.
Speaker 2: Not AND i don't, KNOW i don't know what.
Speaker 3: That it's a hard it's a hard mold to sort
of like cast somebody. In but maybe the better question
is just who becomes someone that's like wildly impactful on
winning that no one views as a star now or
even after that change. Happens you just got to kind
of go through the players you like that seem. UNDERRATED
i don't know who do you have somebody in? Mind
As i'm vamping.
Speaker 1: Here, well it's also because you're kind of look at
maybe a player who's scaling, forward maybe like Because Derek
white was not this high volume of a three point
shooter before he went To. Boston wasn't even this level
of a SHOT i, mean this season is not the best.
Example wasn't even this level of a shot maker the
one that springs to. Mind and it's also interesting because
he might need to change teams for it to. Happen
when you look at their makeup would be Caseon wallace For,
okay as he's already that guy in the sense of
look at all he does defensively SHOULDERS i would say
the heaviest load aside from anyone not Named Lou dort
on that. Team and then there was When shay was
injured along With jay dub being injured and Aj mitchell was,
injured there was that brief pocket of time where he
needed to do more offensively and it, was, oh he
can do things off the, dribble he can do more
pa and he's he's similar To Derek white as, well
not the way That Derek he's not getting these chased
down blocks in, transition but he's a shaky shooter And
Derek white wasn't the most efficient shooter coming over From San.
ANTONIO i do look At Cason wallace as someone who
is maybe he's doing more than just hitting wide open
threes in the corners. OFFENSIVELY i don't know if it
was different With Derek white because The spurs did kind
of give him the. Opportunity he's already be doing too, much,
Right Derek white broadened his, horizons but while scaling. DOWN
i Think Cason wallace has to do. BOTH i could
see him broadening his, horizons but he's gonna need to scale,
up specifically. Offensively HE i think he's my.
Speaker 3: Pick, OKAY i have a couple as looking SO i
was just kind of BECAUSE i got myself on a
on a train of thought with How Derek white is
just always like AN epm or. Whatever he's all, whatever catch,
all he's always up. High someone that has shown up
a couple of years in a row that kind of
feels like they've fallen to the same category of the.
Numbers say this guy is a superstar impact, wise but
nobody would think of him that.
Speaker 2: Way what About Ti? Jerome Because Ty jerome right, now
AN epm is right Between luca And kawhi ahead Of.
Speaker 1: Kawhi that's not a cumulative stat, like, no, no it's.
Speaker 2: Not he barely.
Speaker 3: Plays so that's the other element of like he missed
the vast majority of this year with an. Injury but
just that's one avenue towards finding the Next Derek white is,
like who keeps showing up in some of these?
Speaker 2: METRICS i DON'T i don't love that.
Speaker 1: Answer do you think the Next Derek white Was? Nikila Alexander?
Speaker 2: Walker Already he's already done? IT i mean preaching to the.
Speaker 3: Choir nothing's been more gratifying Than Alexander walker showing out this.
Speaker 2: Year love? It, uh that's that's actually, yeah has he
already done? It? That that would? Be that would be?
Speaker 3: Somebody what ABOUT i had? Somebody Konk nipple's like too,
good too. Fast he's already a star looking scrolling. Down
oh what About Jalen. Suggs that's another like amabity.
Speaker 1: Thing that's a good. ONE i do wonder, though does the,
money like him getting paid out of the, gate like
he's not A max but like getting the one hundred
fifty million dollars. DEAL i wonder if that changes the
way that he's. Viewed and also everyone seems to know
how oh is he his shot is still so? Rickety
but every onoff metric says That joe And zuggs is
and is he ever gonna have the counting stats to
be as high up in The where is? He typically
you you're more in tune WITH epm THAN.
Speaker 2: I he's high. Ish but but it's not like you
gotta scroll down a little, bit.
Speaker 1: Aj. Mitchell are people already game thunder Players Brooks. BARNHEISER
i mean they're all.
Speaker 3: Well they do at least have the white wasn't like
hidden on the spurs that that's not quite right because
they had so many good guys ahead of, him that's.
Speaker 2: There like a man like what About cada In? BOSTON
i was, thinking, like DOES i Guess edie is?
Speaker 1: Too, ooh that's like you understand?
Speaker 2: Good, oh here's.
Speaker 1: You i'm, sorry here's. One maybe this is gonna say
a lot about you depending on your reaction to this,
Answer Brandon, Pajemski.
Speaker 2: Let's see it's maybe.
Speaker 3: MAYBE i MEAN i said Tied, Jerome SO i can't
sit here and like really shoot down your.
Speaker 2: Suggestions what does that look like to? You? What? What
how does He.
Speaker 1: Honestly it looks like basically what he is. NOW i,
don't for the life of me know when the last
TIME i was higher on a good player than their
own fan. Base isn't it supposed to Work warriors? Fans?
Really is? It Because Joe lakeup thought he was gonna
be on The mount rushmore of ALL nba players or
SOME i don't what is it? About, YES i know
he has the egregious shots, sometimes but what is it
about pods that has made him so divisive Within warriors?
Fandom SO i think he's he's not There Derek, white
but he's The Derek white type of gap. Filler To
Derek white has a dominant, skill but it's it's a micro.
Skill like what Is Derek white's dominant? Skill he was
first Team all he's he can make first Team all.
Defense that's not fair With Derek. White but he's a
gap filler like what Is?
Speaker 3: Yeah go, Ahead so, NO i think the core, difference
AND i was prepared to serve you the cocktail of
unlikable qualities That warriors fans fixate on with With, pajemski
many of WHICH i.
Speaker 2: Share we could do that.
Speaker 3: LATER i think the fundamental difference between him And white
is you could make make the case that what Makes
white so good is quick diagnosis of what is necessary
right now in this game, situation AND i do it,
quickly whether that's a, shot a pat like a connective,
pass a drive like oh, shit like he's six' four
and he just came out of nowhere for an incredible block.
Speaker 2: Like that like the quick the quick.
Speaker 3: Diagnosing and addressing of on, Court situations pajemski is awful.
At that he like the Shorthand is warriors fans hate
that he pounds the dribble, too much and it's just
because his processing speed on most things is too slow
or he's. Always made it's it's not that he like
does he he waits too long to do the simple,
obvious thing which is like make the quick pass or
or catch. And drive there's too much like hemming and
hawing in, his GAME and i think that is one
of the ingredients in the cocktail Of why warriors fans
are so annoyed by him AND why i would push
back on him Having The derek white like just get
him on a winner. Or something and because, In fairness
pods does have like some of the some of the
catch all metrics and on off stuff have liked him over.
Speaker 1: The years but by the way that this is stat
when we were talking about his extension the, other day
in an Episode that i'm referencing that isn't going to
go live, for days he has logged over the past
three years twenty five hundred Minutes without Steph Or draymond
green on. The court that is two point five times
more than anybody else During That moses moody, a second
And the warriors have won. Those, minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah amazing there's there's, like you there's a ton of
numbers that say he's, a helpful winning player just to
do the quick. And DIRTY like I think warriors fans
are annoyed BY what i mentioned with the ball stopping
and the pounding, the dribble and, they're like are we.
Speaker 2: Pivoting the for the fifteenth time on this possession? Right
now like that kind.
Speaker 3: OF thing i think, the demeanor the complaining to, the
officials the like put upon kind of vibe that he
has sometimes really does rub people the.
Speaker 2: Wrong way and the.
Speaker 3: Third is the Hair does it's stupid HAIR and i
hate it and he needs to cut it and that's
not a. Good look that's that's probably honestly ninety percent
of What most warriors fans just like is?
Speaker 1: The hair did you have anybody else on that list
that those are two really? Good?
Speaker 3: Questions, YEAH no I now i just want to spend
all the time on like looking FOR the i mean
It's probably, duce, McBride right is that the next the
next guy.
Speaker 1: That that's not a. Bad one He's made he's made
himself a lot of money by being injured Because the
knicks clearly.
Speaker 2: Need him they.
Speaker 1: Need it speaking Of, the knicks let's go to this
next Question From frank ocean fifty nine to. Forty one
how many minutes Do the knicks Need From mitchell robinson
per game in? The postseason here's. A Stat When mitchell
robinson plays twenty one minutes, or More the knicks are eleven.
And Four So mitchell robinson needs to play at least
twenty one minutes? Per Game is i've decided arbitrarily that's.
Speaker 3: The number it's it's higher Than the knicks should feel
comfortable about or that they can reasonably expect him.
Speaker 2: To play how many minutes do they need like to
do what it's.
Speaker 1: Going to be, matchup dependent because do you want to
see them play more? Dual big those lineups have been okay?
This year or is it are you just using him
as your, backup five in which case. You can't how
many minutes do you need him to play? As well
how do you Want carly towns to? PLAY less i
think twenty two twenty four feels like the sweet spot
should give him time to play some dual. Big stuff, it,
Would Honestly and i'm also keking. In that i'm trying to.
Be realistic you might you want twenty five plus minutes
form him and you're playing dual big all. The TIME
but i just don't think that he's gonna hold up.
Under that it's not something he's ever had. To do do.
Speaker 3: You do you remember was he because he played six
games in all three series that went six? Last postseason
was he? Battling something was there? An Ankle was was
he playing hurt? LAST playoffs i can't remember if, There
was like some it seems the sort of always is he.
Speaker 1: Was coming back from that ankle injury that cost him the.
Entire season right they he entered, this season they listed
it as like not playing and that's right ankle. Injury managed.
Speaker 3: That's right so he played sixteen and a half minutes
per Game, against detroit twenty point Seven, against boston then
twenty four and a half Against. THE pacers i think
you're bet it has to BE twenty, i think and
depending on, the matchup it might need to be closer
to that two twenty five ish that he Played against
indiana In the conference finals.
Speaker 2: Last year but if.
Speaker 1: They're Playing, the celtics maybe they need ten from him
Because joems wool is gonna intentionally foul him immediately out.
The gate that's the other thing that you have to
factor into. The, Equation yeah i'm trying.
Speaker 3: To think now we're just, thinking matchups like but does
his offensive rebounding give you a huge Advantage?
Speaker 2: Against boston does.
Speaker 3: His presence in the middle matter For a boston team
that just shoots jump shots all the time? Like, THAT
you i don't know that'd be a. FASCINATING matchup i
think you're right that it's got to. Be low you're
not getting away with more than with less than like.
LOW twenties i don't think for the optimal postseason run For, the, knicks.
Speaker 1: No because then what IS your i don't know how
many how many minutes You Want karlonthi. Town's playing his
defense's topsy turvy to. Begin with if you're Gonna Let
karlnthi towns play a little more aggressively like, they have
that's just gonna make him. More gassed so are you
going to these lineups where og is your five Or
Is jeremy? Saleham playing you Can't be Ariel, hawk PORTY so.
I think and also the entire point of Load managing
mitch the way they have this season needs to be
that he can give you more than twenty minutes per
game of the postseason if you deem. It necessary not
that you have to because maybe some matchups or maybe
you don't, want to but you that he should be.
Able to and if, HE can't i don't know how
you pay him beyond. This Season?
Speaker 3: ALL right i thought this question was, not HERE but
i just forgot how it, was Worded so I'M glad i.
Speaker 2: Found it this Is.
Speaker 3: From yoho everyone seems to be Doubting, the spurs mostly
because they're not being a good historical comp. For them
if they win, The championship we've talked. About it you
got to win a playoff series as as constructed within
the last like three years to really be viewed as a.
Title threat but the historical comp is right under our
nose than Ninety nine spurs led to the title by
a young and professionally Inexperienced Big tim duncan who provided
more defensive than. Offensive Value fair Duncan Was First TEAM
all nba, that Year which wenby probably should be, this
year so we he. Plays enough the team instruction was
different with an aging star Talking About. David robinson what
do you guys think is the Ninety nine spurs the
best historical comp For this spurs team if they win.
The chip it's an interesting comparison With with duncan In the.
Speaker 2: Wemby ROLE.
Speaker 3: As i was looking, this up though every other starter
was at least thirty on on. That team and that
was also a, lockout year which is so easy. To
forget is basically a, bubble title is what.
Speaker 2: You're saying it's basically a.
Speaker 3: Bubble title and that Twenty twenty lakers team is the
only team to not have a playoff series win before winning,
The title so so. There's, that also lockout user, is
weird and it's one small sample to who knows what
kind of shape guys. Are in that's the year they Beat, the,
knicks right And the knicks were an eight seed that made,
the finals so or something wasn't?
Speaker 2: THAT right i think that.
Speaker 1: Was, it Also does wenby Have A. David robinson that's the.
Speaker 2: Other Thing, luke cornett we, love you but. You're not
you're not one of the six greatest centers of all time.
Or whatever it is one of the greatest defensive players
to ever play. The sport just a total.
Speaker 3: Freak, Out yeah robinson was not at his apex then
because he was over thirty like everybody else that played
significant minutes For that. Spurs team but he Was Not luke,
Cornett EITHER so i don't think it's that there are
some parallels just the Youth Of wemben Yama.
Speaker 2: Versus duncan i'll Bet you duncan, was older by, the
way in that rookie year Than then wenby. Is NOW
but i have another team. In mind curious.
Speaker 3: If you have a team That this spurs squad reminds,
you of or, it's, like oh this is the path
that they could take to, them, winning WELL it's i
don't think. That's, realistic okay, but like do they remind you?
Speaker 2: Of anybody.
Speaker 1: Could? It be is it That first thunder team that
made the finals and then got Trucked? BY miami i
didn't even think of that Twelve right Thunder with Harden
and Russ and SURGE.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: Kd nicholson obviously.
Speaker 2: Obviously, in hindsight. Doesn't it did it feel at the
time like.
Speaker 1: They were going to make any?
Speaker 2: More?
Speaker 3: Appearances, well yeah the five finals. Appearances minimum but if in,
my Memory like westbrook And certainly durant and even like
all those guys felt more Established, Than, Castle, Harper champagnee
like those guys felt more like.
Speaker 1: They were in the little for A few, i mean
when you're looking at who was, the youngest It was
hardened and he had been Or Maybe hardened russ were
at the same time they'd been in. The league hard
was gonna? Be extensional is what was? Year? FOUR yeah
i Mean the fox is more established than any of
those guys that were Like dearon fox is THE like
i guess it's Different because wemby's still so early into,
His CAREER but i don't THINK it's i THINK it's
i don't know how close it but that would Be,
my yeah that's hard because If the spurs make it
to the conference finals or get bounced in the finals or,
the conferences is it your reflexive thought gonna be oh they'll.
Speaker 3: Be back, oh, Yeah absolutely i'll, be, like well that
was supposed, to happen and next year it's for, you
know then now it's all bets. ARE off I did
i did think a little bit about the Thirteen, fourteen
warriors which was the one That the CLIPPERS beat i
think in the second round maybe.
Speaker 2: Or might have been the.
Speaker 3: First round it was the last Year before skerr, took
over so that's A bad i don't Think the spurs
are being held back by a coach that doesn't know
what to do with his offense Like the. Warriors WERE
but i do think there's something there is a, possibility,
that Like because wemby is such a one, OF one
i don't know if they've figured out like what the
best way to deploy.
Speaker 2: Him is in a lot of in a lot.
Speaker 3: Of instances so there's that like that idea that like
they're kind of still fighting with a hand tied behind,
their back which was the sense that you got With,
the Warriors with Steph and clay and like not a
lot of high, volume threes And Like david lee's role
was still really Big before draymond. Really popped so like
there's something there's some.
Speaker 2: OF that, i think.
Speaker 3: Just the idea that like there's something here, for sure it's.
Like undeniable And The wemby's steph parallels are are, pretty
solid but like they haven't quite. Dialed in they haven't
like got all the dials turned to the right. Settings
yet but like somewhere in there is something potentially great.
That other but like there's, so many THERE'S so, i mean,
maybe look if you're making the case For the spurs
winning the title, this year you're hoping that there is
no Historical comp you're hoping that this is this is
the thing we refer back to the next time an
upstart team looks many years ahead.
Speaker 2: OF schedule i think that's probably what.
Speaker 1: You want let's do this Question From. Cosmic raccoon i'm
very curious to know your answer to. This one qui
has been playing like one of the three or four
best play players in the league since His. Return factory
in Which return factory and matchups Which top west seed
do you think He and eclips have a better chance
of Upsetting the spurs Or The Oklahoma. City thunder the
fact that this is even a question.
Speaker 3: IS insane, i mean they don't have a real shot
at upsetting either. OF them i don't think you.
Speaker 2: You know I'm gonna i'm gonna give. AN answer i,
WOULD say i would SAY.
Speaker 3: It's I think i have to say they're more likely
to Upset the Spurs.
Speaker 2: The thunder just have.
Speaker 3: If it's possible to have the right or enough guys
to Throw at kawhi Defensively the, THUNDER habit, i think
like that defense is just so ridiculous if, they're healthy
And Like jada profiles is a Pretty good, kawhi Guy
and dort for, That matter WALLACE even careu like they've
got the bodies to throw.
Speaker 2: At him AND then i just don't.
Speaker 3: REALLY know I Guess chris dunn helps to have if
we're just trying, to see like we're, talking upset nice
To Have chris DUNN.
Speaker 2: Against, SGA yeah i, don't know.
Speaker 3: DO you I think i Think the spurs just feel
like there's they're more prone to getting beat by The wild.
Speaker 2: Clippers team but it's IT'S and i.
Speaker 1: Think the big deal deal there Is While steph castle
has been hitting. His Threes dylan harper. Now too you
could just if you really because there's no Answer for
wemby And the clippers are had They. Had zubots the
answer to me is Just the spurs if they, could
have like You kept Zubots, at garland You had kawhi.
The answer, but Yeah, the spurs that makes. More sense
they could throw a bunch of Physicality at Wemby, Between
brook Lopez, and collins maybe you could. Get There isaiah
jackson's thillse like some. Little BOUNCE but i think that
being able. To play feeling as if you could maybe
play off of Guys, like Fox Like, dylan Harper Like,
steph CASTLE would I think i have. TO go i
don't know if you feel that same About, the thunder
just because, like Shit, just shay there's like you're not
gonna play not that they're gonna play off, For shape.
You're not you could play off of some Of the
spurs' primary. Ball handlers we know there's one primary ball
handler and no o case that you cannot. Play off
ye go under against whatever you want.
Speaker 3: To, DO yeah i mean as Great as kawhi has
been the upset conversation is about a lot more, than
HIM because, i mean you can make The.
Speaker 1: Case spurs would be wild though, OH.
Speaker 2: Yeah, i MEAN but i was, gonna say like.
Speaker 3: He's the type of scorer that like he might just
get his regardless like. It might, you know he's as
likely to light Up lou dort as he Is, cast
like it's just the types of shots that he. Can
make those pull up two's are like they're going in
or they're not a lot of, the time you're not
gonna be so physical with him that he shies away
or what like he's and it's just got more to
do with the, surrounding team.
Speaker 1: Right and as, even Aesthetically and I'M sure i would
bet it's statistically, like okay wemby this huge determin in.
The Interior the thunder also just feel like they will
destroy you on the perimeter in ways That the. Spurs
cannot and so Where the thunder could make those tough
shots either ensure more often that they don't happen because
they've just turned, you over or to just the level
of contests they're gonna get on them you don't have Like,
with Garland and, Kawhi specifically i'm looking at maybe. Even.
Bennecmathern two you look at them, AND say i think
they'd have a better chance of getting the shots That
the spurs would be willing to give up Off Than,
oklahoma city which doesn't really seem willing to concede much,
of anything, Right?
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah you the argument would, be, That like wemby's greatest
impact is the deterrent effect around, the Rim and kawhi
wants to shoot seventeen footers or, you know twelve to
seventeen footers at, his best And maybe wemby doesn't affect those.
AS much i would, also, say like maybe, He will
maybe maybe he'll find a way to deter those kinds.
Of shots, it's hard it's hard. To say, All right
i'll do a quick. One here from all Grit Is jason?
Speaker 2: Tatum back how? FAR back i would say?
Speaker 3: FAR back I like i will not Could say i've
watched every minute of him since he's been back From,
the achilles watched at. LEAST all i watched all the,
first game which was a. MIXED bag i think He's
far he's farther BACK than i could have even like
most optimistically imagined at, this stage maybe that's the way to.
Put IT so i don't think he's the fourth or
fifth best player.
Speaker 2: In the league at. The moment it wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Shock me if we get into the playoffs and, we're
like we're talking about how well he's pretty clearly back
in the top, TEN again I think i think that's
that's on, the table assuming he's allowed to play as
much as he. Wants to where are you at?
Speaker 1: On, Him yeah i've been the way he moves off
the ball, Right now i've been really. Impressed By the
One thing i'm wondering if it's going to get there
is we've talked about they don't have guys who are
gonna draw free throws, in volume and he had become
that guy. For them that's not happening. THIS year i
think is pretty clearly the way they're, using him and
even the way he looks on, the BALL and I just.
I'M curious i hope that's back next year because he
was a top five player in, the league top seven
player in, the league and that for a reason it
was he had made that. Leap there that would be
my only a media quote, Unquote Concern but i'm with
YOU that i think he's. Looked GREAT if i had,
to say what could he peek at this season out of?
Top ten might even feel a.
Speaker 3: Little, Ambitious, yeah, well like is he a better Player
Than jalen brown?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Now no, probably not. Probably NOT and i think at,
his peak, to me it.
Speaker 1: Was a better Player Than derek White's Lash. Brandon perjemski,
RIGHT now i.
Speaker 3: Think, HE'S well i think he's still better than at
least in terms of how defenses have to think. About
him he's Better Than, Derek white but you're, You're right
like the percentages are, not there and he's getting to
the foul line three times a game in twenty. Nine
minutes that's.
Speaker 1: It's like half his rate for thirty six minutes. LAST year, i, Think.
Speaker 3: Yeah AND he's, i, MEAN look I think i'm just
still gonna Stick with like it's insane that he's looking
at like he does way less year removed From?
Speaker 1: The achilles are we done with? The Kill Like drew
smith came back in like a week basically After. His
achilles you.
Speaker 3: Remember like the craziest one in THE one i, Was Like,
wes matthews do you remember? That one like He, WAS
yeah i forget when, it happened but it was like
eight or NINE months, i think and he was just he.
Speaker 1: Signed with well he first he signed With, the KINGS
and i, was, like, whoa whoa maybe not he then
went To. The MAVs, that's right, he was.
Speaker 2: That was that was the Benchmark for.
Speaker 1: He's witch this isn't a male. Bad question but Why
Doesn't tyrese haliburn like? Playing? Basketball then why why has?
He not he's had more than.
Speaker 3: Enough, TIME well, i mean he knew he couldn't hit
the sixty five game threshold, This year so what was
the point that's the only time he.
Speaker 2: PUT no, i, mean well here's.
Speaker 3: A question i wonder if he's like basically at the
same Stage that tatum is, REHAB wise i guess his
was was like close to two.
Speaker 2: Months later so. That's ridiculous, but, like right just.
Speaker 1: So he's not competitive enough to try And beat, tatum's
time that's.
Speaker 2: The problem, you're right he. Didn't heat you, know what
he doesn't want to think.
Speaker 1: Two months the playoffs, are long But The eastern conference.
Speaker 3: Semi finals, OH yeah i was thinking it Was like April,
for tatum but it was it was later.
Speaker 2: Than that halburn was.
Speaker 3: Like, mid june so that one was game six as
far as you. Can, go basically, all right you want
to tackle.
Speaker 1: These quick ones before. We do we have, that segment
that great Question from nate coming up that inspired an.
Entire segment but we have. These questions we'll Start with
candon twenty five. Ninety, one grant what is your preferred?
Advanced statistic.
Speaker 3: The bad answer is you shouldn't just, use one cause speaking,
For myself i'm not smart enough to know whether one
is all that much better than. The other what's included
and excluded in all, Of them so use a lot.
Of THEM if i had to, PICK one i really
DO like epm. The best if we're talking about like
vorp And RAPTOR, lebron bpm which is On On, basketball
reference that that that gets used. A lot i THINK
it's epm for. Me one it just seems like smart
people in the industry tend to like the inputs and
outputs of. That one it does to me this is a,
reverse engineering but it does seem like it reflects the
GUYS that i feel like are the best in. The
league like it tends to like retroactively line up with my,
Personal OPINIONS so i don't know.
Speaker 1: My, bias yeah my bias is.
Speaker 3: THE best, i, mean well, you know like SOMETIMES like
pr is a good example. Of that still just really
loves guys that get a lot. Of rebounds uh and
it just favors big men. For example like all of
these have their blind spots. And biases just, you know
use use your advanced, metrics responsibly please and make sure
you're you're mixing them with others would be what.
Speaker 1: I'D say i don't think it's as. MAINSTREAM anymore. EPMs
answer i don't use it as much as. You do
but it is the one THAT if i go, and
look it's one of the FIRST ones i. GO to
i do like regularize adjusted plus minus R, a pm
just anything that's gonna try, and adjust so not only
account for the individual, player contributions but trying adjust for
the lineups you're in and also the quality of the
opponents that you're facing and the work. THAT goes i
don't pretend to understand like how they go about doing.
All that EVEN uh R a pm has the time
decay and it and so that is it seems like
nerds really would be called nerds really trust, That one
so that's another.
Speaker 3: Go to NOW one i Think Is jerry, engelman's right
LIKE that's i think he's, the one you know if
you've been READING like espn over the years. AND others
i think he's worked for teams. Like that that's his.
HIS baby I think i Think It's. Taylor SNAr we
should shout these people out that runs dunks. AND threes
i think that's.
Speaker 2: THE name i. Can't remember duncsan threes is where YOU
get epm just and.
Speaker 1: Dat data baller no e in baller AS the i
think that's the mainstream one that happen because R a
pm has been at a bunch of DIFFERENT places' rpm for. A,
while yeah all kinds. OF stuff i HEARD someone i
think told ME that espn was supposed to release like
a new. CATCH all i haven't seen, anything. THOUGH neither
i will say this, isn't FAIR and i love the.
FOLKS over i think at b ball Index And kristin narseny.
WAS excellent i don't trust metrics that are named after
A player lebron or a team raptor There. Was carmelo
well that's just now you're you're asking for Skepticism. After carmelo.
Speaker 3: I'll ask this follow up Here from mattie l what's
the one stat you would get? Rid of and is
there one you WOULD add.
Speaker 1: I would get. RID of I Love, john hollinger but,
we please for the Love, of god we got to
stop citing P. E, r yeah not.
Speaker 2: The best i'll go.
Speaker 3: MORE revolutionary I think i think we've reached a point
where field goal percentage we can just kind of dispense.
With it just just field, goal percentage because it's fundamentally
not a great quality of a stat if after being
told the number that, it quantifies you then have to
look up at least one or two other things to
see how meaningful. It is which so in the case
of field, goal PERCENTAGE like i, Don't Know DeAndre jordan
shot seventy whatever percent from the field for like seven
straight YEARS in lobb With The Lob, city clippers The
best is he the best shooter in. THE league i don't,
Think SO but i mean the ball goes in the
most when he. Shoots it so you have to look
at like true, shooting percentage effective field, goal percentage all
that stuff is just.
Speaker 1: Or even separate it between twos. And threes if you
want to do it, That way then do you cringe
a little bit when we still have To do if
we're doing write ups At bleacher report and it's like
these player rankings and there's the structure, of no they're
not telling us about. To write but when we have
to put the per game lines in and we're still
using field, GOAL percentage i hate myself a little bit
each TIME when i.
Speaker 3: Think The thing, I'll do i'll do the shooting split
just so you, at threes twos and free throws and
then like from there you can get a decent sense of,
true shooting which is really like what.
Speaker 2: You're after would you know what?
Speaker 1: A stat i would? Add though what and we have
rimm deterrence is, out THERE but i want a stat
like what are the blocks percentage of the blocks that
get just grabbed out Of the they're Called the wemby,
ABDUCTION blocks i think Is what spurs fans, call them
or alien. BLOCKS whatever i want a, specific stat use
the alien or, abduction acronym and so that we could
know it's they didn't swat it into. The stands it's
not even just a term like like actually, Caught IT
like WHOA what? I want i want a stat, on,
THAT well i would all all.
Speaker 3: Use this to, hawk fear which is the forced exits around,
the RIM which i. MADE up i haven't got the patent,
on that so steal it if you want be ball index.
OR whatever i would like that one, more seriously though
this exists, OUT there i haven't found a PLACE that
I that i can readily access that. Has it but,
give me like a pl players shooting ability that, like
what don't give me field? Goal percentage give me how
much better or worse is the player on this type
of shot in this situation defended this way versus the.
League average so it's like because then it's like shot making,
Ability almost so, it's, like okay.
Speaker 1: B ball index. Has that OKAY that, i, no no
it's but it's, not mainstream like to make, It, mainstream
like first, of all there's a fortune out there to
be made for someone who makes kind of the more
play type breaks down like zone defenses or a percentage of.
Double teams makes that accessible, to PEOPLE and i mean Accessible,
where okay it's, subscriber base but it doesn't cost three
thousand dollars a month or Whatever the synergy subscription runs at.
The moment but to your point with that, mean thing
it would be cool to have we have the match
up data where it's A player x shot, against PLAYING
but i don't. WANT that i want, to know like
what's their relative shooting percentage based on the quality of.
The defender it's not even the play type situation that
would that would be more, and like can we can
we pin down actual Contests, not oh this player was
the closest at ten, feet away so he's listed as
the problem defender up.
Speaker 2: This, show yeah that's the tracking data stuff is.
Speaker 3: TRICKY there i would also say we need more uniformity
in how each arena classifies shot locations because you certain
teams like do either do like generally don't categorize shots
as like at the rim for. Their defense very often
they'll call them. Something else there's there's it seems like Pretty.
Wild westie still in terms of like a human decided
that that attempt was an at the rim attempt when
it was like a seven foot floater or something or.
Speaker 2: Vice versa don't. Love that.
Speaker 1: Let's do superpowers. Grant name this Is from nate and
they said it'd be a. Fun exercise they could be
a fun segment be talking about superpowers of the top.
Ten players uh that cut like that come? To mind
so when giving you an Example of Wemby Or steph
so we took some liberties Here they nate also said
it'd also be cool to see some. Niche superpower so we're.
Gonna do let's do NAME that nba. Player superpower, let's alter.
Let's go we'll do two stars and a niche and
go and go. That WAY so i will give you
THE first nba. Player superpower.
Speaker 2: Let's see WHO do i? Want, to.
Speaker 3: Boy there's a lot of good. Ones here, Uh, one
okay this is one of my. Favorite ones so he
counts as. A Star So tyres maxi has a wrong
footed runner that because he's so fast and because like
it raises the question if he even needs to, do
this but because he can at the speed he can
do it at and from the distance he can. Shoot
it it's kind of like as, A defender i would
be just like driven mad by how difficult it is
to can, test it because as, a defender you time
your steps up to the conventional one two like inside,
takeoff foot opposite, hand Finish and maxie isn't even shooting,
A layup he's going from farther out at a. Dead
run any google shoot a right handed right, foot floater
that's just like there's no defense. For that that is
a Superpower Like kyrie irving. Has That kyrie irving has
the best like wrong foot package of Any player i've.
Ever Seen but maxy at the speed, he moves that
to me is like a definitional singing like no one.
Else does it is a true superpower.
Speaker 2: For HIM so.
Speaker 1: I was actually saying we should name them and the
other players should. Identify Them so i'm gonna throw throw one.
At you i'm not sure if you're familiar with, This Player,
steph curry what's? HIS superpower i mean you can only.
Speaker 3: Pick, one, Yeah right just being a, GOOD human i
guess IS what i, would say great example of a.
Human being it's it's gotta be, TO me i think
it's his ability to move off the ball and get
shots up as relentlessly as.
Speaker 2: HE does.
Speaker 1: I think. THAT'S fair i think that's. Probably fair, so
basically there's also the relocation that he does, really well
but that's more Of, a yeah that's. A niche it
it's a niche.
Speaker 3: Of, Niche, yeah okay, All right well in, THAT case
i will give you we already Talked about wimby a
little bit kind of spoiled.
Speaker 2: That one what give Me? Shake Gil just alexander's superpower
strong ass.
Speaker 1: Off arm that's what, it is it.
Speaker 3: REALLY is, i mean isn't it a bummer that that
is like one of the things that makes.
Speaker 1: HIM great i don't fault him, for it though the
guys who, use, it like if that's the way, The, game,
like yeah it'd be cool to legislate some of, this
stuff like some of the ACTUAL would i view, gimmicky
STUFF which i don't consider three points gimmicky legislating that
out of. The league but if it's, THAT'S like i,
don't look it's not. Foul baiting if, like that you're
playing within the rules of. The game but. There's that
there's also his hesitation dribbles or just insane like the
shifts with which he plays when he gets into the lane,
is yeah and that's also if he didn't use have
the superhuman, off arm he'd probably still be among the.
Top five then free throw attempts.
Speaker 3: Per game that's the thing is is even before, all
this before he really leaned. INTO it i think. You
could just can't, you remember like really as he was
breaking As a, oh shit this guy's like a high
twenties like. Thirties score just how shifty, He was like.
How slithery that was THE word i use all. The
time is just like an off time and just had.
That ability that's kind of an across the board superpower
is like if you can do stuff at a cadence
that the defense, finds.
Speaker 2: Weird you're gonna.
Speaker 3: Be good like just if you can get on get
off of the rhythm of like a normal. Basketball player
it's that's a superpower.
Speaker 1: By itself grant NAME the nba.
Speaker 2: Players superpower Your Guy.
Speaker 1: Stefan castle he.
Speaker 3: HAS many i think my favorite one IS he i
don't even know if IT'S a i don't KNOW what i.
Call it it's like the bulldozer layup where whether the
defender is bigger or smaller, than him he just does
a hard head down drive and doesn't really beat, the
guy but puts him under the basket through strength and
goes up off two feet and just makes a.
Speaker 2: Layup AFTER like i don't know what. It is it's
kind of a big man move or more of but
and he doesn't do the like discard shove off off
arm thing as egregiously as. Many others so he just
runs the guy into, the basket puts him, underneath it
and goes. Up off it's like it's like diabolical and
its simplicity and how effective. It IS so i love that.
Speaker 3: About him does he have? Another one, not yet he's
still developing. His, superpowers okay, all right give me.
Speaker 2: LET'S see i don't want to give. You one that's.
Speaker 3: Too uh this guy's. A star i don't want to.
Pick him how about.
Speaker 2: Does mckail bridges have? A superpower what?
Speaker 1: Is it is it a superpower to never want to
be touched by? Another player and so you're just fading
out of layups as you get closer to. THE basket
i really think like that's the.
Speaker 2: Correct answer by, the way the that's why his streak
is still alive though nobody ever. Hits, HIM no i
mean like it's durability because he's how how have you,
Put it he's forever fading. Forever fait it's like a
it's like equally charged magnets where he's just like somehow
he's repulsed by the defender and goes by the basket
and whatever the, shot is he moves away from the
basket as.
Speaker 1: He's shooting it looks like it's in one of those
invisible force fields that it's like an. END game I
don't i don't know if you would like watching or
was that Endgame Or? Infinity war whereas It's around wakanda
and you can't pass, through it and so he, Reaches there, it's,
like nope got a faith doesn't matter in transition in the?
HALF corner, I honest i Did he did he teach
It To? DeAndre ayton or Did De andre ayton teach it?
To him what they?
Speaker 3: Played together some there's some kind of there's a skills Coach.
In phoenix that's like everybody wants to go towards.
Speaker 2: The basket here.
Speaker 1: We are it's also they kind of took it one
step Further From, devin booker who could hit. Fadeaway Jumpers
But devin booker is not afraid when the pathways open
and get to, the room saying what if we just always?
Speaker 3: Did that they're never going to, expect. It guys they
think you want to go to the basket if you
go the.
Speaker 2: Other Way Free lunch GRANT naming nba players Superpower.
Speaker 1: The, lebron james what's? His, SUPERPOWER hmmm i mean?
Speaker 2: Not aging?
Speaker 3: Is that shouldn't that be the simplest answer that there's
SO many, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry he's been Hashtagging washed king on his social
media post for like fifteen years.
Speaker 3: FOR least, i Mean he's that's the, thing is he's
changed it so. Many times for a minute there he
would do that weird like little side step three to
the right where he would like look at, the ball look.
Speaker 2: Down at it. Like that that came. AND went i
don't think he does.
Speaker 3: That anymore the wrap around pass to, the corner that's a,
big one just being huge and having vision and throwing
the cross court skip pass to the opposite corner like
he's been great at.
Speaker 1: That forever some would say that's that's, a bug not,
a feature because it proves he doesn't want it as
MUCH as Mj, or kobe who would have taken. THE
shot i mean it used, to be did it used
to be before they kind of legislated. It out he
had like the pro hop remember that like down well
where you just your one foot hop to a two
foot plant wait and then go.
Speaker 2: Up powerfully that's that's.
Speaker 3: Kind of gone that that was a big one. FOR him,
i mean it's the it's the it's. The, launch yes
that's that's gotta? Be it, all right How's? About okay
what's WHAT'S the nba Superpower For.
Speaker 2: Jalen brunson.
Speaker 1: He has a superhuman off hour for someone, so, small
right he's. Got help so there's the two feet in
the like going up for baskets with two feet is.
REALLY cool i think this is obvious And maybe knicks fans.
Will disagree just the pivot foot just like he especially
off the left like. He cold just it doesn't make.
Any SENSE and i guess sometimes it might look like
it's a travel, but man that left foot pivot once
He gets like anyone who picks up their dribble when
they're just outside the restricted area surrounded, by trees it
should be a. Bad time But with Jalen brunt and
it's everything's going according to plan EXACTLY how I, gained.
Speaker 3: It got him EXACTLY where i, want him two seven
footers in front. OF me i don't have a. Live,
dribble great here comes. The, layup yeah and it's more
impressive for him just because of, The stature like the
league is caught up like doing getting to a two,
foot plant pivoting and then taking off of the, other foot,
you know with these sort of little mini extra step
you can get playing out of. Two, feet now that
works better for guys that can really extend the basket on, step.
Speaker 2: Throughs and that's not an option.
Speaker 3: For him so the fact that it works so well
for him at his size is even more impressive because
it's just it should be really hard for him to play,
that way and he's still one of the best like
post players we've. Ever seen just His foot his feet.
Speaker 1: Are incredible grant give me NAME the, Nba Superpower. Kawhi leonard,
oh uh. Sponsorship agreements there's.
Speaker 2: Sponsorship, agreements uh just.
Speaker 3: Time management he gets a lot of money for not
doing things that he's supposed.
Speaker 2: To.
Speaker 3: Do uh so it used to be and maybe it's
still sort of is just the the claw of it,
all that just the hand strength and just forcibly taking
the basketball away.
Speaker 2: From people, to me now he's defined by the laser,
beam jumper which is it feels like he has calculated
the lowest possible trajectory of a basketball shot that can still,
go in and he is, absolutely mastered like there's no arc.
On it it's almost just like if.
Speaker 3: You want to play up the like machine nature of,
his personality it's like this is how a machine would.
Speaker 2: Shoot it there's just no margin.
Speaker 3: For error it's it's optimal if you can shoot it
the exact same way every time and. Never deviate but
he has no arc on, his jumpers and they just
they just free, throws too even they're just like they
almost attack the back of.
Speaker 2: The rim there's there's. No arc, IT'S like i don't know.
Speaker 3: Anybody else you might cite Someone, Like Jordan like jordan
didn't shoot with a lot of arc and AND like
i can't think of anyone that shoots quite.
Speaker 1: Like that oh do you know who springs? To MIND
they I Got. Derek rose he didn't shoot with a
lot of a lot, of, arc right he.
Speaker 3: Had a similarly like the ball was like like forced into,
the basket, you know on his jumpers it went. In hard,
SO yeah i think that's a. Good one not a
lot of like, pure swishes there's a lot of back
rim and.
Speaker 2: Straight down that's a. Good.
Speaker 1: ONE okay i want to try and only shoot line
drives and see what his percentages end.
Speaker 2: Up being probably probably, pretty good probably still. Pretty Good,
uh dan what is what is alpera AND shngoons? NBA superpower.
Speaker 1: I honestly would say he has some shoulder, Stuff too,
BUT you i know you have a thought. On this
it's the, awkward timing and you mean that as, non
pejoratively it's.
Speaker 3: A compliment IT'S like i, SAID earlier i think anybody
that does things off time just has. An advantage and
he he does a lot of like just his shot
fakes are. Weirdly timed he'll he'll turn over the wrong
shoulder Type of he's JUST like i don't know if it's.
All timing it's a combination of timing and just like
willingness to shoot from. Strange angles he just plays at
a cadence that, is weird and it's that's a. GOOD
thing i don't know what kind of player he'd be
with the shooting being what it is if he didn't have.
This ought it's also weirdly mixed with like extreme physicality,
on offense like he just rams into people and then
we'll shoot some weird like fading wrong, foot arm, wrong
shoulder type. OF thing, i mean he's he's got to
be like just a nightmare to play against because you
just don't know where these shots.
Speaker 1: Coming from grant NAME the. NBA superpower i go here
that give you A weird your last ONE was qui right.
A star let's give you a. WEIRD. One. Tj McConnell.
Speaker 2: Uh, TO.
Speaker 3: Me, tj McConnell there's. THERE'S another i mean the back.
Horse steel that's a good one. For him, but Yeah,
he's yeah. That's true if you had to give it,
to anybody that's the Grand. Theft alvorado so McConnell, to
me the the the quickness of his pull up short jumpers,
is unrivaled and it has to be because he doesn't
have the size and doesn't create the separation to get
off those types.
Speaker 2: Of shots but.
Speaker 3: He will be going at a dead run and pull
up and go up as high as he can and
shoot like a nine foot jump shot off a two
feet that is just going straight up and it works
because he. Does it so he'll do it after like
Doing the nash dribble on the baseline and then quickly
turn around the direction he just came from and shoot
a pull up super. Hard shots but and he's like
the ONLY guy i think that shoots. Those regularly so
that's that's.
Speaker 2: A big one. For, Him, okay dan What Is KEVIN durant's?
NBA superpower i have.
Speaker 1: No idea just mantling teams from the inside. Pretty good
it's got the it's the has he pulled up he
brought has he pull up jumbo into. The mainstream, that's
like that's just like he could still. Do It the
dude's just. That's, insane oh it's my turn. For, You,
well grant What, is oh here. We Go anthony edwards
is superpower.
Speaker 2: He's got he's a weird.
Speaker 3: OFFENSIVE player i do THINK he's i think he's so
strong that his ability to everybody everybody kind of. Needs
it but he is so good at, dead run slow
down euro still has the strength to get up.
Speaker 2: To FINISH so i guess that's.
Speaker 3: Like the the like the high degree of difficulty or
like the high stress eurostep maybe or something like some
version of that where he's got euro step.
Speaker 1: Or, something yeah.
Speaker 2: He's got so many you don't want to throw that,
out there. You, know.
Speaker 1: Yeah He's just edwards gets drug tested immediately after this that.
Speaker 2: Eurostep you slowed, Down, too well what's going?
Speaker 3: ON here i think it's that he also can get
off a three against, the contest like from anywhere at,
any time which is not always a, great shot but
it does. MATTER sometimes i still think it's the what
he can do getting downhill and then slowing down and
moving laterally. Like that that's, The thing like you have
to have such a strong you have to be so
strong to do that and like get any bounce off
the floor.
Speaker 2: At all it's. Like, unthinkable see do we have any more? For?
Speaker 3: YOU oh i think this Is. Your dan What Is
CONKIN nipples? Nba superpower is.
Speaker 1: It weird to? SAY screening i was gonna go with,
ghost screening but he will connect on his screen to
where screen where he'll register as the role man on certain,
possessions too and so being able to do that as
someone who's just kind of. A wing but then you're
also going to be tasked with needing to hit these
crazy shots off of. Those plays it's sort of like
Super Charged buddy Heeled in indiana when they used him
for all those, Ghost screens But Like conka nipples way
better than but because he could do stuff off the.
Dribble too first, of all to have a superpower as
a rookie is.
Speaker 3: Pretty, insane well and, it's like isn't his superpower just
being one of the greatest shooters to ever enter?
Speaker 2: The league also like he has more than one and
it all like.
Speaker 3: The screening his effectiveness as a screener is. Just it
it exists because of how he can. Shoot it like
anytime you have a, great shooter using them as a
screener is just gonna rate a good shot for somebody
because you can't can't mess around if you're defending any
kind of switching or screening action that he's.
Speaker 2: Involved in that's a.
Speaker 1: Good One GRANT navy nba is Superpower for yannis Attent.
Speaker 3: To coombo he's figured out how to take seven steps with.
One dribble that's. PRETTY good, i, mean honestly that really
is something that he's made more effective than literally. Anyone
else is the late whatever we're calling the gather where the.
Ball happened the ball is, at rest but it's like
spinning in your hand and you might dribble, it again
but you've taken four steps while. It's THERE that's, i
mean that's the huge reason he's so effective. IN transition
i think ultimately it's just the spin cycle dunk where
he will be going downhill. Incredibly fast everyone on the
other team knows, it's happening and the second he feels
pressure on, one side he spins the other one and it's.
Speaker 2: A dunk often. Left handed he's GOT a i would
like to see the count of left handed dunks he's
gotten in. His career he's got to be more.
Speaker 1: Than right he also does it at different rotation speeds,
right towards like some of the spins look like they're
in slow mo because they're like, the quick like the.
Quick gyrations but there are the other ones where it's
like why is nobody? Stopping that because it's almost just
he's gradually making his way like. Twirling around it's more of.
A twirl it's not so much of a spin as.
Speaker 3: A twirl did he did he hit the fading turnaround
game winner Against the knicks early in, his career like
right around the.
Speaker 2: Foul line do you remember?
Speaker 3: THAT shot i want, to say THAT'S what i want
to sit AND because i REMEMBER because i was working
that NIGHT and i had to what up my angle
was like It's over if he, has this. It's OVER
and i don't think he's ever shot that shot again
in his, whole life and. It's IRONIC like i the,
discourse was oh, my god this guy has a fading.
Turnaround jumper therefore he's complete. And unstoppable and now, it's,
like no he figured out you, should Just unlike Bridges,
and ayton just go towards the basket and spin and.
Speaker 2: Then dunk that's, a lot. That's lucra.
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna forget that because it's just never been
more wrong that that shot, actually mattered accept in so
far as it Was like giannis is here now that
that was what that shot felt like at.
Speaker 1: The time can We talk i'm trying to think of
top ten players we missed because that was. THE question
i know he probably didn't cover all, of them but
can we talk this one, through TOGETHER because i have.
A Suggestion kate cunningham's probably been a top ten player, this, year?
Speaker 2: Right, yep, well no he hasn't played sixty, five games
so this season, didn't exist never.
Speaker 1: Had it, you're right we should bestow that honor then.
Upon too how many Games is durham? Played in that's
the new top, Ten player.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry?
Speaker 1: Go ahead is it at? This point is his superpower
like kind of the, Fadeaway jumper like, in it he
can get, to it whether he's like coming from the
three point arc or if you're gonna he's gonna seal in.
THE post i think that might be, his superpower and
he shot really well on. Those looks this year just
feels as if it should be something, else MAYBE but
i think for me it's it's that fadeaway jumper and
his the readiness with which he can get to, it,
now yeah.
Speaker 3: And the need, for it Just because detroit has a
lot of possessions where the no easy. Shots materialize he's,
to me he's, the hardest really good player, to say
like this is. His thing this is, you know this
is the image of him in. MY mind i do
think it's probably that just the ability to hit a
fade or turn around or even just like a hard
pull up. That's CONTESTED it's, i mean he does he's
like he does get some crazy blocks.
Speaker 2: For a player in. His position you can't say that's
like his, superpower though.
Speaker 1: Who also gets some crazy blocks for a player of?
His size asked me About read. Shepherd's superpower What's read.
Speaker 2: Shepherd's superpower he gets good amount of blocks for a
player that's.
Speaker 1: His, size right.
Speaker 2: We haven't talked about Let's.
Speaker 3: SAY jokic, i mean, oh yeah oh. My god is
it just vision is a built? Like his you know
that's that's not as?
Speaker 2: Like? Clean yeah?
Speaker 1: What is what would? That even BECAUSE there's i mean
There's The aaron, gordon pass like the, shot Pass the,
somber shuffle all the all.
Speaker 2: The times he the, somber shuffle all the times that
he throws a pass literally over the bat over is
like that he's never looked at the, GUY like i
don't know what you. CALL that i guess. That's vision
touch like his incredible like the floater what stuff around,
the room his three point shot where it's like, come
on that thing gets cocked back and touch like the
back of his Shoulders, BASICALLY yeah i mean you could
even just go like his hands because those go into all,
the touch the like, passing facility all.
Speaker 1: That stuff how about to always looked like he just
exited a war but he's on his shoulders but he's never,
Actually bleeding like he just has all, those scars but
they're they're never.
Speaker 2: Open, wounds yeah. Interesting skin thickness of skin maybe is
what we're talking. About there he is, very, built different.
Speaker 1: Built, different uhka what's the?
Speaker 2: LITTLE superpower i mean the step back going left? For? Him,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: He's got his defensive rating Over the lakers past. ELEVEN
games i think it's his one on. One defense is that? It,
IS yeah i just gotta trust.
Speaker 2: The numbers i'm not going to watch The Tape. Donovan,
mitchell oh the the, High, pickup yeah THAT'S like i
could watch that on a loop for the rest of.
Speaker 1: MY life i think because it doesn't. Make sense should
it be? A, carry.
Speaker 3: No he doesn't put it. BACK down i think it's
risky because everybody else takes the ball down to their
ankles through traffic and then comes up through.
Speaker 1: Through arms he goes over and it's actually just Super
cool and you're, a Loser and, I'VE okay i don't
know if a random players have been random Enough. For
grant What's What's brandon? Pajemski's superpower.
Speaker 3: Coming to a two foot plant at the at a
bad place on the court and picking up his dribble
for no reason and pivoting fourteen times before having to
throw a bailout pass or a step through runner as
the shot.
Speaker 2: Clock expires that's a.
Speaker 3: Long superpower but find me, someone better find me someone better.
Speaker 2: At it.
Speaker 1: You can't they'd be in the top ten discussion if they.
Weren't injured What Is tyre's? Haliburton's superpower probably the? Jump,
passes still the.
Speaker 3: Jump pass came to. Mind, FIRST yeah i think. He
there he GOT a t shirt made about how jump
passes are, cool now so that that has.
Speaker 1: To Check kaitlin cooper. For That And. Jason tatum what's?
Speaker 2: HIS superpower, i mean for, a minute there was the
off arm thing to me that like the he he.
Speaker 3: He had the Walk so shay could run with with
the the off. Arm shove he?
Speaker 1: HIS superpower i mean he has the escape dribble three Down,
pat yeah.
Speaker 3: This said the extreme side step. Three, too yeah he
covers so much ground.
Speaker 1: On that and the. Other thing he's the one is
he the only star in. The LEAGUE it's i guess
it's between Him And kevin durant where it's they just want,
To hoop they want to play in every and. His,
superpowers people you won't mention load management or do players
playing enough games and you'll Never Mention kevin Durant Or, jason,
tatum Right, and jason so that's got to Be A
jason tatum. Superpower too i'm glad that.
Speaker 3: You because i've said more than once half joking that
someone wanted it more than somebody else on this episode
or a, previous Episode and i'm glad that you've now
jumped into the cliche of bucket and just said he
just Wants.
Speaker 1: TO still i guess we don't consume typical let us know.
The people is? It still is he want they wanted?
It more is that's still analysis on sports radio or.
TALK shows i don't consume any of them, anymore really
to be it's all podcasts, FOR me i don't that's.
Speaker 2: Like that it.
Speaker 3: ABSOLUTELY is i mean maybe not in so, many words
but JUST like i, don't know WATCH the ncaa tournament
and it's just like one team is playing its ass
off and the other one doesn't seem. To be it's
like they're looking at them, out there they're look at
him getting. After it they just they want that. Ball
more those fifty to fifty balls are. Ninety ten like
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Should do, coaching Superpowers Which joe mizzula's superpower.
Speaker 2: Uh the ability to compare any situation to life in The.
Animal kingdom, nobody's better.
Speaker 1: Nobody's better, he's definitely and we've proved it with a
segment the coach whose quotes are most likely to be Misattributed.
To batman right there's.
Speaker 2: He has a lot. Of superpowers anybody else we haven't
hit trying?
Speaker 1: To, THINK no I think i think That's a we've
gone for almost two and a, half HOURS so i
don't know if you're ready you can take us out.
OF here i.
Speaker 2: THINK everybody i think. Everybody's ready so.
Speaker 1: If anyone made it to, the end comments, or below
or get it to just let, us know because That's
your this might be our longest episode of. All time your.
Speaker 2: Your superpower is. Listening stamina if you've made it this
far and we appreciate.
Speaker 1: Your more your ear drums are, built different so your
ear drums wanted.
Speaker 3: It more, rate, review subscribe tell, your friends tell. Your
enemies joiner discord links for that on YouTube and. Podcast
description until. Next Time Shouts frank milakina and Apologies To
jared allen m