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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Apologetics three fifteen podcast with

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your hosts Brian Auten and Chad Gross. Join us for

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conversations and interviews on the topics of apologetics, evangelism, and

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the Christian worldview.

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Speaker 2: Serve the public trust, protect the innocent.

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Speaker 3: Uphold the law.

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Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to the Apologetics three fifteen podcast. I'm

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Chad Gross and this is Brian Auten, and we are

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super excited to have returning guests Jay Warner Wallace, cold

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case homicide detective with his son Believe it or Not,

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Jimmy Wallace, who also is involved in police work, talking

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about their new graphic novel Case Files, Murder and meeting.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to the interview.

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Speaker 3: Let's get ready, switch me on.

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Speaker 5: Well, Jay Warner Wallace is with us again as well

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as Jimmy Wallace. Welcome guys to the podcast.

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Speaker 6: Hey, thanks so much for having us. Yeah, looking forward

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to this.

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Speaker 1: Well, now we've got two.

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Speaker 5: Jim Wallace is here, so we've got Jimmy and Jay, Like,

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how do we differentiate?

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, I was Jimmy until he was born.

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I was Jimmy and my whole life because I have

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a dad whose name is Jim you know, he's this

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is Jimmy's the second to my dad, and so I

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lost that name and my wife would call me Jimmy

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until we were you know, I was twenty seven years old.

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And then for a while, this kid was little Jimmy, Like,

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where's there's little Jimmy because I was the Jimmy. But

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at some point he just gets the name and now

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he won't like go of it, so I'm stuck with jim.

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Speaker 7: Well, there's no other variationes, they're all taken. So I

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made him drop the first name and go by Warner.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 6: I have a grandson and Jimmy's got a nephew. His

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name is James. So we've got every version of Jim,

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James and Jimmy you can do.

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Speaker 5: So Now, Jay Warner, you've written a lot of different books.

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Everyone really knows you well by Jay Warner Wallace. You've

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written all.

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Speaker 1: These cold case sort of books.

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Speaker 5: History is a police officer and a detective and things,

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and that's that's pretty amazing. Now, what some people may

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not know is that your son is sort of following

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in your footsteps in doing police work detective work. And

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now the listener can't see this right now. But behind Jimmy,

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I thought these were like case files when there's like

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this huge treasure trove apparently boxes of comic books. Now,

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why so many comic books? And how does that lead

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into this interview today?

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Speaker 7: There Jimmy, Oh why there might not be a good

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answer for why you know you want to start a

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Christian podcast talking about all your material positions.

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Speaker 5: There's an investment right to sell those things.

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Speaker 7: I yeah, I'd like to think that they're worth something,

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but maybe one or two of them. But for the

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most part, I don't have that kind of money to

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be a collector in that way. But I grew up

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reading conic books. I had a lot of people uncles

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in my life who liked conic books, and one uncle

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in particular left a relatively sized collection of really class

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six sixties, seventies and early eighties comics to me. Well

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he left in my grandma's house and then I just

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discovered it and got really hooked on that. And my

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dad was always really good about kind of supporting us

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in reading comics. He'd always give us a dollar a

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month to go to the comic book store, and we

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could go to the quarter bin, which is like where

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all the old comics.

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Speaker 3: That stores try and get rid of.

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Speaker 7: Sit now, I don't even know if there's a quarterbin,

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it's probably a dollar each, but at that time there

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a quarter, so you get four for that month, you know.

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So I just always grew up reading comic books. I

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love comic books, and I think I always would have

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dreamed to do something in comics, but I didn't really

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think that that was a like a realistic goal, So

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it wasn't really something I was actively pursuing until relatively recently,

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just these last few years, as we worked on Case

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Files Excellent.

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Speaker 6: Can you guys tell that we were on a police

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officer's budget?

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Speaker 4: Yes, a dollar yes, yeah, And Jimmy, Jimmy, your spott

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on the bin now is about a dollar dollar.

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Speaker 2: Twenty five for the comics they're trying to get rid of.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I really have gone. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Before we get to the book, I have to ask

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who is your favorite? Do you have a favorite comic

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book hero?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 7: That's so hard, like because it's like choosing me to

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tree your children. If you pick one, two or three

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that you like, tell us one that I do kind

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of default too, is I love Spider Man and in particular.

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I in that original collection of my uncle's comics were

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some of the original stan Lee and John Remita spider

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Man's and then a bunch of the reprints they used

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to be an old series, Marvel Tales.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how big into comics you.

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Speaker 7: Guys are, but Marvel Tales was like in the I

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think seventies or eighties, they were reprinting the sixties stuff.

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So I got grew up kind of reading the stan

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Lee Spider Man. I would still probably say it would

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be hard for me to pick something over that original

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he did like one hundred and ten issues. I would

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say it's hard for me to pick something above that.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. Maybe on a particular day, maybe

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i'd say something else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally can appreciate that. That's where I'm at.

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Speaker 4: I it would depend on the day who I would pick,

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and it would be hard to pick one.

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Speaker 2: So I understood that.

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Speaker 3: So show you.

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Speaker 6: Sound like you're actually a pretty big comic book fan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am, indeed. Yes, Yeah, we're talking.

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Speaker 5: We're talking he's been a Spider Man before in you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's kind of a that's kind of a story.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's there's a branch if you google Marvel

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character appearances, there's actually a branch where you know, they

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hire people to dresses the comic book heros. So for

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like three years I worked for them and portrayed Spider Man, Hulk, Daredevil,

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and I did Cap once. But I'm actually not tall

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enough so because they actually are kind of particular.

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Speaker 1: Now he's doing David Wood.

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Speaker 6: You know what? That is so funny because you could

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easily do him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I gotta tell you this. I know we

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don't have a lot of time, but I got to

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tell you this.

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Speaker 4: So, Jim, Jim, when I met you, it was in

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Mount Airy, so you know where I'm talking to Steer

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or mount Airy? Right, Okay, So I was there when

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David Wood was speaking. I had three different people walk

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up to me and start talking to me about his

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talk because they thought I was him.

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Speaker 2: And then I had to.

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Speaker 6: Live yeah they had seen him live, yes, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so I had to keep So it got to

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the point where they would start talking and I would

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just like point like he's over there, and they would

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look at me, and they'd look at him and go whoa,

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and then they'd walk away.

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Speaker 6: Oh, you were very kind. I think I would have

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probably faked being David and said some obnoxious things that

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he get to pay for later, oh, beause that would

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be an awesome opportunity to mess with them.

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Speaker 2: Now actually a Muslim, I love the Koran, Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, just flipped the whole narrative. Yeah, that would have

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been funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So this concept of a graphic novel, I mean you wanted,

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you know, you had this desire to kind of go

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the root of writing a comic. Didn't think it was

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on the table, and then all of a sudden, this

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opportunity comes about.

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Speaker 2: How did that happen?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, we had heard through the grapevine. I'm not

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sure exactly how. I mean, it might have just been

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through a press release. I can't remember exactly how we first.

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Speaker 3: Heard about it. But David C.

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Speaker 7: Cook, which is a nonprofit Christian book publisher that published

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I'd say the majority of my dad's past books.

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Speaker 2: Especially his early books called Case.

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Speaker 3: Christianity, came through David C. Cook.

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Speaker 7: They had purchased a small comic book company called Corvus Comics.

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There's a small independent publisher. They were doing adaptations of

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the Chosen They're based out of Colorado and they were

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purchased by David C.

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Speaker 3: Cook and they had said, hey, we want.

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Speaker 7: To use this to get into the graphic novel space. More.

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Speaker 3: David C.

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Speaker 7: Cook has the Action Bible, which has been absolutely huge

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that I read that, and they actually are the publisher

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of the longest running Christian comic book. It's been running

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essentially without a break. I don't think there's any significant

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break since like the forties it's called picks. Nowadays it's

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mostly reprint material, but it's still going strong if it's

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out there. I'd never even heard of it until in

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the last few years, and I'm always looking for Christian comics,

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but so.

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Speaker 3: They've been a comics for a long time.

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Speaker 7: But they were trying to get back into it, creating

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the original content, and we were like, hey, my dad

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already has a relationship with them. There might be something

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we can do with kind of still in the cold

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case Christianity lane, but that could get into comic books,

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and why not reach out to this. I you know,

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it was always a dream, so let's give it a shot.

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And luckily they were able to, you know, we were

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able to give a pitch that they liked and move

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forward with the project.

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Speaker 2: That's really cool, like some real providence there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it felt that way. It really did, because I

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knew that Jimmy wanted to do something this someday and

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we just, you know, I don't even know it's such

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a collaborative effort because we're not doing the art on this.

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I do all my own art in my own books.

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But this is a different genre. You know, this is

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very different and if you want it to be kind

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of perceived as part of the genre that people are

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familiar with, you you've only need to use established comic

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book artists, which we used up for this. But because

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it requires somebody, you just can't like like submit the

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book to a publisher and say we're ready to go.

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You have to a publisher that has the bandwidth and

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the access, you know, the kind of art directors and

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access to artists, because you know there's going to be

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the sketcher, the inkor the letterer and the colorist and

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so these are like just it's a big team. So

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I think we learned from this lesson that that this

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is something that we have. If we could get one,

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we felt really good about it. Now let's driver too,

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you know, it's like one of those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what was it like working together? Like, what

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did that look like a nightmare?

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Speaker 3: No, No, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 7: I'm just kidding. I think that this was well. I

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should I don't need to take up too muchhar time.

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I barely give my dad any time to speak. But

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for me, it was very sentimental. I grew up, you know,

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the son of a pastor and a Christian apologist that

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I always dreamed about doing something in apologetics or at

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least something in ministry, something for God, something that kind

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of followed in his footsteps. And so to be able

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to do something not only for God but with him

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was a dream come true.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And from my perspective it was. It was not.

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It's not hard to work with Jimmy. I mean, he's

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got his head in the right place, you know, as

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he wants to do something that is going to serve

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the kingdom. Well, and if we've kind of grew up

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together as Christians, because I got saved when Jimmy was

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about eight, and so he saw that process and then

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he kind of journeyed with me through all the evidence

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and kind of my debates with other young Christians or

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Christians who I was meeting for the first time and

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sitting down at the coffee table or sitting down at

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the dining room table and having those conversations, and so

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he got to see that, and so we kind of

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came up together. So it was it seemed like an

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easy process. Now, I don't know that everyone has a

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great relationship with their kids, but part of it for

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me is I've always been amazed by my kids, So like,

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I just wanted to do something to advance what he

245
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wanted to do. So I really didn't do much other

246
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than just kind of contribute to the over arching story,

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like where what can we what part of the Christian

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worldview could we most easily kind of a message without

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being and also kind of guiding what do we want

250
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this to be the typical, you know, every Pollyannish kind

251
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of world in which sometimes Christian fiction is written in

252
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which everyone at the end is going to get saved

253
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and it's got a beautiful sweet endings. And this is

254
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not the way law enforcement, this is not the way

255
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that criminal cases run. So so we thought, well, you know,

256
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so I kind of helped him shape some of that,

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But when it comes down to the conversations, I mean,

258
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this is ninety ten where he's developing, because I don't

259
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even think I've been saying this, it's so to me

260
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the format in which you screenplay, you're basically storyboarding a

261
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screenplay a movie, and you're just storyboarding it, and you

262
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have to think about it in terms of, well, what's

263
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the scene we're in, what are the characters we're in,

264
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what's the narrative that's going to be in the box,

265
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what's the quote bubbles that are going to be in

266
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the quotes? I mean, all these things are lined out

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in the story like a screenplay. So if you like

268
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a script for an actor, that's hard. I mean there's

269
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many times I'm trying to read this with Jimmy. I

270
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know that he had a better picture of what it

271
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was going to look like because you got to say, Okay,

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page six is going to have six six panels. These

273
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six panels are going to be in this this is

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the scenes we're depicting. And he made a good point

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of saying, sometimes, hey, you know, you can't like have

276
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this run on too long without a scene change. What

277
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are you going to have five pages where it's just

278
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the same setting. You have to think about like scene

279
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changes to so that that thing moves faster, and it's like,

280
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this is stuff that I don't typically think about in

281
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writing nonfiction. So I just deferred that to him and

282
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made sure that when it was all over that, you know.

283
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And I think also it was a little bit I

284
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think interesting for Jimmy and I because he's in a

285
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different generation of law enforcement, right, so he's working in

286
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a kind of post COVID lockdown, post George Floyd kind

287
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of world, and also in a different generation of millennial

288
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gen zs or in law enforcement now, and the language

289
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is going to be different, the way we approach things,

290
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even the technology we're using is different. You know, like

291
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when I was writing search warrants back in my day,

292
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the most sophisticated thing you might write would be like

293
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phone tolls. Well, you know, now we're you know, Jimmy's

294
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writing stuff for his social media and internet and geolocations

295
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and all this other kind of stuff that we just

296
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didn't have to deal with. So it was kind of

297
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just some of this I wouldn't even I mean, definitely,

298
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the personalities don't change in law enforcement, so characters don't change,

299
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they just re emerge, okay, but the stuff they're doing

300
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does change, and so it was kind of a good

301
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combination for us.

302
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Speaker 7: I won't confirm or deny what I do at work,

303
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but I will say my dad is giving me too

304
00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:22,759
much credit and not enough credit to himself.

305
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Speaker 3: I mean, this was truly like a collaborative effort.

306
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Speaker 7: When we first sat down on this, we actually brought

307
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we split it up. I don't even know if this

308
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is the way we should have done it, but what

309
00:13:30,519 --> 00:13:34,039
did we know about starting a con book. I created

310
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,799
six characters who I thought represented a variety of They

311
00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:39,960
were kind of an amalgamation of a variety of people

312
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we'd worked with. I thought would work good. They each

313
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have different perspectives on life. And then my dad came

314
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up with six plots, and we essentially they started whittling

315
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these plots down and trying to plug the characters in

316
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,960
and going, hey, how would the characters react in these plots?

317
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Speaker 3: How should we change the characters? How should we change

318
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the plots?

319
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Speaker 7: And so I think he's giving me a little bit

320
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,080
maybe too much credit there, But it was fun to

321
00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:02,639
kind of go back and forth. And it's definitely it's

322
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,120
one thing to read a comic book and think I

323
00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:06,320
kind of understand why I enjoy a certain comic and

324
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,000
why I don't enjoy another. But when it comes down

325
00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:10,080
to actually doing it, man.

326
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Speaker 3: It's a lot harder.

327
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Speaker 7: It's giving me a totally different perspective now when I'm

328
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reading comics, a lot more respect for the creators involved,

329
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because it's difficult.

330
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Speaker 5: You kind of mentioned there as being a screenplay running

331
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a screenplay, So I mean, if this is sort of

332
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,799
a movie that you read, how would you describe the movie?

333
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Speaker 1: What would be the pitch that you would give.

334
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Speaker 6: Well, what we're doing here is we're trying to cause

335
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people to examine something that's important in life, how we

336
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ground human value. And this is something that we see

337
00:14:38,919 --> 00:14:41,879
all the time in law enforcement, because you do see

338
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that certain certain crimes are get more attention, more public

339
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attention than others, and often it comes down to who's

340
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the victim and why is it this? Some victims get

341
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all the attention nationally and some victims don't get reported

342
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on at all. And so that's something that we could

343
00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:58,279
easily talk about because it turns out that most of us,

344
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and this is true for probably most cops, ground value

345
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and something you either achieved, something you've earned, something you've

346
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become without grounding it the way that we would ground

347
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it as Christians. So for example, if you're working on

348
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,159
a homicide team and you get some and there's like

349
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,000
a murder in Los Angeles County involving a celebrity, you

350
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,840
don't think that in that five man team, everyone's scrambling

351
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to get that case, like they want to work that case.

352
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Why because they think that that person is somehow or

353
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at least that case is going to get be more

354
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noteworthy if they solve it. They're going to get attention

355
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for solving it. I mean, this is how crazy this is.

356
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So you mean to tell me that somebody else gets

357
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killed and that's not as important. So Jimmy did a

358
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,440
good job of kind of also kind of scratching out

359
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how each character also is struggling with his or her

360
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own value, Like what makes us. It's about identity, where

361
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we place it and how we ground our identity. So

362
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we knew we had an opportunity here to at least

363
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explore those issues. And then of course we'll have one person,

364
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maybe in this story, and he's a minor character who

365
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will end up holding a view that's closer to our

366
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,559
own as a Christian worldview, and then it can occasionally

367
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:09,879
kind of inform the other characters about where they've gone wrong,

368
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,679
and we want to do it without being preachy, so

369
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,879
we're trying. It's hard to kind of walk that line.

370
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:17,080
So I think you might be halfway through this book

371
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,440
before you even thought is this Is this a moralistic book?

372
00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:23,840
Is this a book with the moral message? Is this

373
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a book that maybe is a Christian book? I don't

374
00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:28,120
know that it's that obvious in the beginning because our

375
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:31,039
main character is not a Christian and these and then

376
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,559
the other thing is, you know, when we get done

377
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:34,759
with this, is everyone going to get saved and baptized?

378
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:35,399
Speaker 3: No?

379
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:38,279
Speaker 6: I mean I'm not. You know, I'd like to see

380
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,159
everyone in life do that. But but we know also

381
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,159
we have a we hope to have one more, at

382
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,279
least of these we have. We start off with the

383
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,559
two book notion with the publisher, so we don't have

384
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:52,879
to land everything you know in the first thirty pages, right,

385
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,080
and life isn't that way. So this is a book

386
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,240
that is when we first wrote it, we thought, is

387
00:16:58,279 --> 00:17:00,759
this going to be just for adults because of the

388
00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:02,840
gritty nature that you know they're going to be what

389
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,200
you're going to see at least three murders in the book.

390
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:08,400
But it turns out that if you're like a junior

391
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,039
higher and you're watching anything on Legacy TV and certainly

392
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,559
anything streaming, you've already seen worse than this and the

393
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,960
weekly crime dramas that are out there. So we feel

394
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,279
like this is still open to anybody, probably in junior

395
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:20,839
high up.

396
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 2: I was curious.

397
00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:23,319
Speaker 4: That was one of the questions I wanted to ask

398
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,200
you is when when I read it. One of the

399
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,480
things that I did notice was that it it must

400
00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:34,200
be difficult to write something like this and toe that

401
00:17:34,319 --> 00:17:38,640
line between you're thinking about you want your Christian audience

402
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,799
to appreciate it, but you also want your unbelieving audience

403
00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,640
to be able to read it and to in it

404
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,839
to feel real to them, right, And a lot of

405
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,279
Christian media is very explicit, right, and it does have

406
00:17:54,319 --> 00:17:57,920
the very neat, tidy ending. And so how did you

407
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,160
guys arrive at the story that you did and kind

408
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,400
of walk that line because it seems like a real,

409
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,680
you know, wire walk if you will, like a balancing act.

410
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was tough.

411
00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 7: I think what we didn't want to do is do

412
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:15,039
something that would come off as cheat too cheesy, too quickly.

413
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,119
But also I didn't want to create something that was

414
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,240
Christian in name only that you could like adapt it

415
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,680
into a movie and nobody would ever know that it

416
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,519
was ever Christian. Not that somebody's going to adapt our

417
00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:29,680
first work into a movie, but I wanted something that

418
00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:33,400
was at least truly and explicitly Christian, but somehow also

419
00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:38,920
not cheesy. And I love cheesy Christian comics. I love

420
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,759
like the old archie comics that are Christian Archie comics.

421
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:44,039
I don't know if you ever seen those, extremely.

422
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 3: Cheesy, but like that's almost like the draw of them.

423
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 7: So I'm not eve gonna say like criticizing anyone else's stuff,

424
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,039
But for us, we're trying to figure out how can

425
00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:54,119
we do both, And I don't know if we landed it,

426
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,319
but we definitely wanted to try to figure out some way.

427
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,119
We knew for a Christian audience, we can't have them

428
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,200
talking in the way that a lot of cops talk,

429
00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:05,079
with a lot of really extremely foul language. We also,

430
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:08,319
you know, we don't want to be gratuitous in the violence,

431
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,559
but we also didn't want it to be so tame

432
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,279
that you didn't see any of the murder, and so

433
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:15,480
really trying to figure out where the line was was difficult,

434
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,000
and I think there's a back and forth with the

435
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,279
publisher about exactly.

436
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:18,839
Speaker 3: Where the line was.

437
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,079
Speaker 7: We wanted to make sure and even how to market

438
00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:22,920
it as a Christian publisher. Are they going to feel

439
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,119
comfortable marketing a book with murders in it to a

440
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:30,359
sixth grader? Probably not, So, you know, we really balanced

441
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,400
that back and forth. But we wanted something that at least,

442
00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:35,799
whether or not it is real in terms of the

443
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:38,920
exact specific things that are happening, we wanted to at

444
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,839
least feel real. And for me, this was one of

445
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,559
the things that I saw. This story about the meaning

446
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:47,960
and value of life is something that I saw throughout

447
00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:50,359
my career, and I see a lot of my coworkers

448
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:51,480
struggling with it.

449
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,039
Speaker 3: A lot of cops are great people.

450
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,799
Speaker 7: They're really great at taking identity of their work, and

451
00:19:55,839 --> 00:19:58,480
it's very practical when you're at work, because you just

452
00:19:58,519 --> 00:20:00,480
throw your one hundred and ten percent, your whole self

453
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,720
into your work, and you're probably gonna work harder and

454
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:05,599
maybe accomplish more at work. But that's like to the

455
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,839
detriment of everything else in their life. And lots of cops,

456
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,839
it's not just said trope in fiction, And lots of

457
00:20:09,839 --> 00:20:12,640
cops have terrible home lives, and the divorce rate amongst

458
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:13,519
the cops is really high.

459
00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:14,559
Speaker 3: And then I.

460
00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:18,599
Speaker 7: Also saw as people retired out of the career, a

461
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,000
lot of like almost like they felt lost. These people

462
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,160
who now they're not a cop anymore, that's all they

463
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,920
ever were, and what does that mean for them? Where

464
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,279
do they see their value? And so I saw a

465
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:30,200
lot of people around me in my life struggling with

466
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,079
this sense of identity and where to place it. And

467
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,079
I think it's even a temptation I've felt should how

468
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,759
much identity should I place in the thing that I do?

469
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,079
Speaker 3: And so I wanted to at.

470
00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 7: Least feel real, even if the exact wording or the

471
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,200
way that they solve the crime is with whether that's real,

472
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:50,160
quote unquote real or not, I want it hopefully it

473
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:50,880
feels real.

474
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,039
Speaker 4: Well, I thought it especially felt that way, especially through

475
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:59,200
the kind of looking through mirph size in the graphic novel.

476
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,319
I felt that way of the struggle felt very genuine.

477
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,839
The moments where he's reflecting on his past, the moments

478
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,559
where he's you know, part of him doesn't want I

479
00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:10,319
got the sense that part of him doesn't want to

480
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,000
do it anymore, but then he doesn't know what He

481
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,880
wouldn't know what to do if he didn't have it.

482
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,519
I really felt that struggle in several scenes through the book,

483
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:22,279
with Murph in particular.

484
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,839
Speaker 6: That's something that we were I was also thinking about too,

485
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:30,079
because I mean, this is a real struggle. And my wife, Susan,

486
00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:34,279
and I have been doing counseling chaplains with Billy Gram

487
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,759
Association for police officers who are involved in critical incidents,

488
00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:40,039
and so we do twenty four couples this summer over

489
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,720
six weeks, and we see this a lot in terms

490
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,200
of so much of why I even talk about identity

491
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,400
publicly now is because I see it in this counseling.

492
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,599
It's a bigger issue than most of us want to admit.

493
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,880
Even those of us who would call ourselves Christians, we

494
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,680
struggle keeping our identity in christ And so these are

495
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,319
some of the things you can kind of look get

496
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,200
in this kind of a fictional account. But you know,

497
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,039
how do we do it? How do we provide for

498
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,920
a community that loves apologetics. That's what my audience is

499
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,480
going to be. Our people who want to read more

500
00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:13,160
about apologetics, So how do we create a fictional story

501
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:17,039
that will scratch that itch? But also, you know, we

502
00:22:17,079 --> 00:22:18,559
want to be creative, we want to take it in

503
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:21,799
a slightly new direction. And for Jimmy, this is at

504
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,079
least a first entry point for him. You know, he's

505
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,400
got his master's degree at Colorado Christian University through the

506
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,920
Lee Strolls program, and it really isn't applied to Poul.

507
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,720
It it's like a very practical apologetics curriculum there that

508
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:37,480
is trying to get people or young people who are

509
00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:39,880
taking and old people who take the program like to

510
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,279
figure out like what, okay, what are you going to

511
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:43,759
do with this? Because I see this all the time,

512
00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:46,480
even at IOLA, where people will get a master's degree

513
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,440
in to apologetics and then kind of struggle to figure out

514
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,759
how to press that into service, Like how do I

515
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:54,519
take that now and do something with it? Or it's

516
00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:57,200
also okay, I think just to do whatever you were

517
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,640
doing before, but do it better. But most of us

518
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,279
who get this kind of a master's degree, we do

519
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,440
it because we think we're going to turn around and

520
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,519
change the world with it. And I think there's two ways.

521
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:08,759
Speaker 2: To do that.

522
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,039
Speaker 3: Right.

523
00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:12,759
Speaker 6: One is just through like didactic teaching. Let's just teach

524
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:14,880
you the case for this, the case for that, the

525
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,400
evidence for this, the evidence for that.

526
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:16,799
Speaker 2: Okay.

527
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 6: The other way though, is just to get you thinking

528
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:22,480
in a Christian worldview direction and everything that you think about.

529
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,240
So that's what we're trying to do here, Like how

530
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,559
would this look if you're going to create? And I

531
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:29,519
was just listening to Andrew Claven the other day as

532
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:32,319
a commentator. He's got a podcast, and you know, he's

533
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:35,160
an author, and he's always complaining about Christian art. I mean,

534
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,200
he complains about it so much, Christian fiction and Christian

535
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,359
movies that I'm like, Wow, I wouldn't it be nice

536
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,319
if there was nothing to complain about. Not that what

537
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,400
we're doing is all that fantastic, but we wanted to

538
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,440
at least to make an effort, and we want to

539
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,799
make sure we avoid the traps that most common people think,

540
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,240
like the secular world thinks you people are don't see

541
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,680
it clearly, don't see life clearly. It's too simple from

542
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,079
your perspective of the Christianity survives even in the rough

543
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,079
world of murder investigations. So we wanted to be able

544
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,400
to write something that explores it in a creative way

545
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,119
and also as realistic about what it's depicting.

546
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 5: I really thought the artwork looked great, And I'm wondering

547
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,119
what you guys thought about the process of creating something

548
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,119
where you're not the artist but you're the author. And

549
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,400
then that seems to me like it could be a

550
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,000
big worry to be like, Okay, this is our baby.

551
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,559
Now someone could make it look horrible. What was the

552
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:36,920
creative process behind that? And did you have feedback and no,

553
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,039
no change that guy? You know, change this?

554
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: How did that go well?

555
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 4: And then real quick, just to add on to that,

556
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,200
like when you were when you created Murph, right, did

557
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,119
you have an idea of what Murph looked like in

558
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,920
your head and communicate that or did they say this

559
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,000
is what we think Murph looks like and you had

560
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:56,839
to kind of get your head around that. I mean,

561
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:57,640
how did that work too?

562
00:24:58,599 --> 00:24:58,839
Speaker 3: Yeah?

563
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 7: We when we did the character, so when we submitted

564
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,960
the proposal, we submitted initially very brief, I want to say,

565
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,960
like four or five sentence synopsis of what the story

566
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,839
would be and the apologetic message behind it. Here's the

567
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160
general plot or the like the case theory beginning be

568
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,160
investigating here's the apologetic argument or point we're going to

569
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,519
try to get across, And then we submitted to them

570
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,480
very brief character descriptions. So we did do descriptions that

571
00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:35,160
were like ethnicity, heightweight, gender, and maybe like a couple sentence,

572
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119
maybe five or sentences are so description of kind of

573
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:43,319
like their background, very brief and off of those concept

574
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,759
artists over David C. Cook did start to draw based

575
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:48,240
on those, and so a lot of them. I think

576
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,559
that I would say we kind of stuck to those

577
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:53,720
original ideas, but some of the characters look radically different.

578
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,480
Peter Liota was at one point a really massive He

579
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:02,400
was like the biggest character, a hulk kind of looking character,

580
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,119
massive simoan dude, and Marco Russo.

581
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:08,759
Speaker 3: Had more of a like.

582
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 7: Suave, kind of like stereotypical pretty boy kind of look,

583
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,559
and they've comed which I felt like. Hughes was probably

584
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:21,000
actually the biggest change. He looked totally different than I

585
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,079
think either me or my dad had kind of pictured him.

586
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,680
But I think the greatest part of it was we

587
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,839
would see these new character character designs come in and

588
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,119
they somehow still felt like the same character even though

589
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,799
they looked radically different. I don't know how they were

590
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:36,000
able to accomplish this, but we're very fortunate and earlier.

591
00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:38,799
So as for comic book people like yourselves, I don't

592
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:40,960
really need to explain this, but for the audience if

593
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,920
you're not familiar with conic books, I would say that

594
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,559
the writers earlier we described as like writing a screenplay,

595
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:47,200
as kind of like that we're writing like a page

596
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,400
by page kind of breakdown.

597
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 3: But the artists are like everything else in a movie.

598
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,319
Speaker 7: They're the directors and their actors and the costume designers

599
00:26:54,319 --> 00:26:56,599
and the set designers and everything else they could possibly

600
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,039
think of in a movie is the on the artists.

601
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:01,759
And so we were really fortunate in this case to

602
00:27:01,759 --> 00:27:05,519
have Steve Crestponderia for A Massani as our artists. When

603
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:07,640
we pitched the idea, we did not know who the

604
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:13,240
artist's attached would be, and so I think there was

605
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,960
like some level of like, oh, okay, it'll be great

606
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,559
when we see these finally come in. And also there's

607
00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:20,200
a lot of creative freedom.

608
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: That's given to the artists.

609
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 7: If we said, hey, there's seven panels on this page

610
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,319
and they thought they could do it in five, or

611
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:26,640
we said it was five and they thought it should

612
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,839
be seven. They had the freedom as the artists to

613
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,559
do that because they need to communicate the story in

614
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:36,920
a visually appealing way, and as writers we are we're

615
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,640
still limited in terms of how we're visualizing this. But

616
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,759
we were so fortunate when we finally saw the pages,

617
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:46,319
and we did have some ability in some notes, but

618
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,079
I would say most of the notes that we gave

619
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,200
them are relatively minor in terms of changes from the

620
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,160
final pages, and they're mostly to do with dialogue.

621
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,839
Speaker 3: We did some last minute adjustments.

622
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 7: To our dialogue, but in terms of the art there

623
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,079
was really not much that we had any like voice in.

624
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,839
Speaker 3: That was all on the artists. And I think if

625
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,240
you read the comic and you.

626
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,079
Speaker 7: Feel like, hey, this really was good, it's probably because

627
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:10,319
the artists were able to convince you that not our.

628
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,279
Speaker 6: Story, which is so a really important truth is that

629
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,160
you know, we get of the screenwriters, but like like

630
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:20,079
Jimmy said, every other aspect of movie making, every other thing,

631
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,880
every other credit you see at the end of a

632
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,559
movie is the artistic team, right, because they're picking all

633
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:27,440
the sets and designing the sets and the wardrobes and

634
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,559
designing all the spatial expressions, you know, that are coaching

635
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:32,960
the actors, they're creating the I mean, it's like it's

636
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,079
everything else. So so yeah, you're at the mercy of

637
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,400
But these guys gave us their first visions of what

638
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,839
the characters were really early, and we did tell them like, okay,

639
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:44,640
so Murph is going to look kind of like this,

640
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,319
and so he does. To me, he embodies exactly what

641
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:50,920
I would've thought that character was going to be. And

642
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,960
what are we doing here? Like when we create a

643
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,400
big character who it's because these are types. These are

644
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,640
types that you see in law enforcement. Because law enforcement

645
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,599
is such a rigorous physical job, it's going to be

646
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,200
dominated by a couple of different kind of characters. It's

647
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,799
either going to be dominated by people who are just

648
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:07,720
big enough that if they make a small tactical error,

649
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,119
they're strong enough and big enough and fast enough to

650
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,400
make up for the air. It's also going to be

651
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,799
dominated by people who maybe aren't as big or fast,

652
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,480
but they learn quickly and they're tactically sound from an

653
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,119
intellectual perspective, like they're not going to put themselves in

654
00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:21,799
that position because they know they're not big enough to

655
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,240
make a mistake. So you get different types of people,

656
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,680
and they come out that even not actually have different

657
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,279
physical types. We hire a lot of ex football players.

658
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,799
I mean, if you came into the you walked in

659
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,960
and you said, I've got a bachelor's degree in X

660
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:39,319
or you said I just got done playing linebacker at

661
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:42,720
Arizona State, a good chance the Arizona State guy's getting

662
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:45,000
hired as long as you can pass, even on a

663
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,920
remedial level, everything else, because the job often is breaking

664
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,759
up a bar fight or walking into situation, and just

665
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:56,359
by your physical presence, everyone calms down. So it's like,

666
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,359
those are things that you see in law enforcement, and

667
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,680
we wanted to say kind of image those and that's true,

668
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:03,640
whether because the nature of the job is such that

669
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,200
it is. It's true whether you're working in nineteen eighty

670
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,880
eight when I first got hired, or you're working or

671
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,880
in Jimmy's generation, it's always true.

672
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:13,559
Speaker 4: I thought you guys did a really good job in

673
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,920
the book there. You know, we talked about walking that

674
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,839
wire of you know, being explicit implicit however you want

675
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,759
to put that. I'm sure there's a better way, but

676
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,839
I thought that you guys did have a couple very

677
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,160
I don't know how I would describe it. Moments where

678
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,359
they left me really pondering or they hit hard of

679
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:34,240
you know, you talked about the apologetic message, and obviously

680
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:37,039
and here the idea is what gives life meaning?

681
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,039
Speaker 2: What gives it value? Right? And I think it was Ashley.

682
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,240
Ashley is the one.

683
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: That has the new baby, right, yes, yeah, when she

684
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,720
says this, she's at a dead body scene and she

685
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,400
says new baby at home, dead body at work. It

686
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,079
was hard to reconcile the two. Was life as pointless

687
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:00,200
as it looked at a murder scene, or as meaning

688
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,440
as it felt in her daughter's nursery, And that just

689
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:09,119
hit me, like, man, I feel like, even if you've

690
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,720
never been to a dead body scene, which thankfully the

691
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:14,960
majority of people haven't, we can certainly relate to that

692
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,559
in the sense of our lives.

693
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes.

694
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,039
Speaker 4: Life seems much more meaningful than other times that depending

695
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,240
on the moment. And so in thinking about that, what

696
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,680
is your hope and how this will hopefully help an

697
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:33,680
unbeliever kind of turn their head to the gospel or

698
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,440
maybe consider that what does give all this meaning?

699
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:38,359
Speaker 6: Well, I want to hear Jimmy's answer to that But first,

700
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,880
let me just say I think that when when you

701
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,079
know you write out of at some point you are

702
00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:45,920
going to end up writing out of your own experiences.

703
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:48,279
You're going to end up expressing your own thoughts. Me

704
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,279
just are I mean, you can say, well, I've readen

705
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,480
a lot of comic books, and I kind of understand

706
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:55,480
how the genre works. But look, in the end, they

707
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:57,359
ask us to write a comic book, what's it going

708
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,480
to be about? Do you think, Gee, I wonder it's

709
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:01,319
going to be this stuff? Because this is this is

710
00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:04,359
the stuff that we actually think about. And you know,

711
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,640
Jimmy's got two young babies at home, and when when

712
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,079
he was writing this, the first one was you know,

713
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,640
so I can see why these are questions we ask,

714
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,200
These are things worth thinking, and so I think if

715
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,039
you can just kind of confess to that. Look, if

716
00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:21,559
Christianity is true, it has to make sense of the

717
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,960
ugly world we're living in. And I think that sometimes

718
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,920
it's easy for some of us to avoid the ugly.

719
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,279
A lot of us, you know, don't have to think

720
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:31,559
about these issues, or we just don't pay attention to

721
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,720
these issues. But if you're in law, any kind of

722
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,720
first responder situation. You're going to have to see these

723
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:38,759
things constantly, over and over again. They were just an

724
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:41,519
FBI report a couple of weeks ago that said that

725
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,240
the average police officer will see one hundred and one

726
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:49,680
hundred and seventy three critical incidents in their career, where

727
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,400
the average person sees two or three in their life.

728
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,200
So to see some of the stuff, we're going to

729
00:32:56,279 --> 00:32:59,240
have to see and to see it all the time,

730
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,160
you're either going to go crazy or you're going to

731
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,559
decide in advance that these are not critical incidents. Because

732
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,519
I got to see them so often, I'm going to

733
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,799
treat them like the average person would treat them. I'm

734
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:13,680
going to go crazy. So I think that I don't

735
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,599
know if that line I've always wanted to ask Jimmy.

736
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:17,319
I think that line probably comes out of his own thinking.

737
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:17,839
Speaker 3: Am I right?

738
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,279
Speaker 7: I mean, I think, yeah, there's a lot of self

739
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:23,200
expression I think from both of us in this. I

740
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,359
don't know if I would say, like one particular character

741
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:29,319
is me or my dad, or one particular thought is

742
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:31,519
exactly what we would think. But I think that the

743
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:35,640
overall message of the book is something that we've felt

744
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:38,200
or learned through our lives. So these are the these

745
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,559
are the thoughts that are kind of on the forefront

746
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:43,519
of our minds. And I would hope that this I

747
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,960
you were talking about, like, hey, does this how does

748
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,920
this reach the unbeliever. I would love to think an

749
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,559
unbeliever that will pick up our niche Christian comic book

750
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,559
from this small publisher somehow, and we'll read it and

751
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,200
will be transformed by it. And I hope that Christians

752
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:01,319
who find this comic will give it to their friends.

753
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,680
But if all this does is reach Christians, I think

754
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,680
that that for me, that would be still a very

755
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:09,800
edifying experience because me, I'm a comic book reader.

756
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: I read comics every month.

757
00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 7: And I almost I read almost no Christian comic books,

758
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,840
and the old comics I grew up on as a kid,

759
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,960
Stanley's Spider Man we were talking about earlier, There's gonna be.

760
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 3: Nothing objectionable in there. It's not Christian.

761
00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 7: Stanley's not Christian guy, but he's not writing anything that

762
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,599
is in any in conflict.

763
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: I could have believed that he was.

764
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,159
Speaker 7: A Christian based on what he was including in terms

765
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,519
of his content, But today there's almost no comic book

766
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,039
that as a Christian you can read that you're going

767
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:36,800
to not have to hold your nose at at some

768
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,920
point or just go this is the price of any

769
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,320
modern media. I'm going to see something that is objectionable

770
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:47,880
morally or whatever. And so I love crime comics. I

771
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,199
read crime comics constantly, but every crime comic has some

772
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,320
rated R scene that I can't now, you know, probably

773
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,159
recommend on a Christian podcast. So if all I can

774
00:34:57,199 --> 00:34:59,679
do is just give something to a Christian to go, hey,

775
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:00,639
you're alone.

776
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 3: You like comics. I like comics.

777
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,639
Speaker 7: We're not the only people out here who enjoy stories,

778
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,320
enjoy the medium, and we're not the only people who

779
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,679
think like this. That alone would be a big deal.

780
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,559
I think in general, when I approach the idea of

781
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,079
using fiction to try to tell story, I just know

782
00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:19,960
how much fiction has affected me. I know we're talking

783
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,840
about Spider Man earlier. I've used various examples in various podcasts,

784
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,039
but I think my dad was like shocked the first

785
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:30,920
time I said this. I think that sometimes my moral

786
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,000
development has been as impacted by fiction as it has

787
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:38,639
been from nonfiction or from scripture or from a Bible study.

788
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,000
And it's because I think when you're reading nonfiction, you're

789
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:46,079
thinking about something, but when you're reading fiction, you're living

790
00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:48,039
it or you're in it. I'm in that world even

791
00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:50,079
for that short amount of time that reading that story,

792
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,280
and so for me, a lot of times, stories caused.

793
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 3: Me to ask the biggest questions.

794
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,079
Speaker 7: One of the comics I think that I still read

795
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,000
today that's still being produced is Nexus.

796
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: Have you heard of Nexus? It's a pretty small, independent,

797
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,239
little comic. I don't know if I can recommend again.

798
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,400
This is not a Christian comic.

799
00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 7: There's some PG thirteen rated ars scenes probably thrown throughout there,

800
00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:13,559
so I don't know if this is an endorsement. But

801
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,119
what's great about Nexus? This is a comic about a

802
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,599
guy who he's got this affliction where he has these

803
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,760
nightmares of mass murderers and the only way to get

804
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,679
the nightmares to go away and for him to feel

805
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:29,159
well again is to go and kill the mass murderer.

806
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,239
And he doesn't want to kill them, he's not a killer,

807
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,440
but he says, I got to go kill them for

808
00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:35,719
self preservation. And he's going to do something good because

809
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,679
he's going to take out a mass murderer. But he's

810
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,599
going to do something that he finds morally objectionable, which

811
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,119
is killing, and so he's just got this constant conflict

812
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:42,400
in him.

813
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:42,639
Speaker 3: Right.

814
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 7: It's one of my favorite superhero sci fi comics. I

815
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:49,880
highly recommend it if you're willing to look at some

816
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,800
potentially objectional material thrown out threat there. But that's always

817
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,800
anytime I read a story of Nexus, I'm always thinking

818
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:57,880
about these moral questions.

819
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:58,079
Speaker 3: Right.

820
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:00,639
Speaker 7: It's not a Christian story, and there's not necessarily it's

821
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:02,239
going to point me to a Christian answer, but it's

822
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,039
going to make me ask really good questions.

823
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:04,639
Speaker 3: Now.

824
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,079
Speaker 7: I know, because I have an apologetics background and because

825
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:09,239
I grew up in the Church, that Christianity has the

826
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,519
best answers. But as a Christian creator, I want to

827
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:16,880
hopefully ask the same questions that these secular writers are

828
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,400
asking and then hopefully point you at some point to

829
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:20,719
the better answer.

830
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: I love that.

831
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:22,519
Speaker 3: Right.

832
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,159
Speaker 4: So, as we're kind of coming down to the end

833
00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:28,039
of our time, you kind of left me on a

834
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:31,199
cliffhanger here at the end of Case Files. I mean,

835
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,719
there's so many stories that I'm wondering what's going to

836
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,800
where these characters are going to end up. So you

837
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,760
mentioned that you're hoping for volume two right, can I

838
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:50,400
get a tease, maybe a preview, hint something, throw me

839
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:50,719
a butt?

840
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,559
Speaker 6: Come on, Okay, I think I would love to do

841
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,679
as many of these as the Christian community wants. Now

842
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,199
you can sometimes think, well, this is I think this

843
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,440
is worth doing, blah blah blah, and then you find out,

844
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,199
you know, two years in, that you know no one

845
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,719
really cares about it and it's not having the impact

846
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,840
you want. So I think this is probably what most

847
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,519
publishers are doing also, especially as something serial right, if

848
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:16,840
you've got something. I know when I wrote Cold Case Christianity,

849
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,119
the next publisher I went to was like, well, do

850
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,000
you have another one of those? You know, like they

851
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:24,320
want to say it's see you've done something they kind

852
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,840
of want the and that was what Zonovan said to me.

853
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,079
They said, hey, do you we want something else? Like

854
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:33,039
I did have one more piece, what's probably two more

855
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:34,440
I could have unpacked, but I didn't think there was

856
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,039
any need for it, and it brightened person of interest

857
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,079
to kind of satisfy that desire on the part of Zonovan.

858
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,719
I think that if this is successful and people like

859
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,159
the world we've created, the team, we've created, the characters

860
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:49,800
we've created, well, then I'm going to try really hard

861
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,199
to keep on producing these graphic novels. If it's not

862
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,719
with with Cook, it'll be with whoever is interested in produce.

863
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,079
Because this is such a weird I don't I feel

864
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:01,800
like super blessed. I'm not kidding when I say that

865
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,920
the stars seem to align so we could actually do

866
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,360
this book with David C.

867
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: Cook.

868
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 6: I don't know how. That's just amazing to me that

869
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,519
we got this book out because I know how many

870
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,199
moving parts there are, and it took us over two

871
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,320
years to get from zero to fifty on this. It's

872
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,360
just a really hard collaborative effort, and not many Christian

873
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,280
publishers have the bandwidth and the team available, and trying

874
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,360
to hold creative teams together is super hard. I'm just

875
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,079
telling you. It's just you start with one creative director

876
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,320
in with another. It's just a lot of stuff going on.

877
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:36,679
So I think this next book we're looking at is

878
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,199
just an extension of this in which we're going to

879
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,199
examine the grounding for moral truth. How do we know

880
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,199
something as good or bad? It's this very simple question.

881
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:50,119
And whereas this book talks about grounding human value, the

882
00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:52,199
next book's going to really explore the idea of what

883
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,519
is good and bad and who gets to decide, because

884
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,800
if you think about most of the culture, you really

885
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,719
realize this when you work in gang cultures because any

886
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,159
kind of I'm sure the people who work at the

887
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:04,480
MOB back in New York probably also experienced it. There's

888
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:09,599
a whole separate code of conduct conduct for these groups,

889
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:11,920
and the things that we would typically say are vile

890
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:15,840
are just part of the standard operating procedure for these groups.

891
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,800
And so they could say there's a wise way to

892
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,440
do this horrific crime, and there's a like they actually

893
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,760
have an entire set of values that is grounded differently

894
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,800
than ours, And the question that becomes who gets to

895
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,360
decide what values are really the true values we should

896
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,960
follow or are there any objective truths about moral behavior.

897
00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:35,159
So that's the kind of thing we could probably explore

898
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:36,679
in the next one, But again, we want to do

899
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,559
it in a way that's not too preachy. So that's

900
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:42,239
why I think this book it will move fast. I mean,

901
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,760
it's one hundred and sixty page graphic novel and it'll move.

902
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,880
I think it moves pretty fast, just because of the

903
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,599
nature of comic books. Yeah, so that's my hope, is

904
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:52,079
that we can explore some of these and given this

905
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,840
character set we've developed, and the end is everyone going

906
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,119
to end up. Now, This is why I'm taking an

907
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:02,079
approach where we have a longer hopefully a longer run

908
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,719
than just one or two books. But it also wouldn't

909
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,880
surprise me if the way comic books are that we

910
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,679
only get one or two books. So we're just trying

911
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:11,840
to keep hold the entire project with an open hand.

912
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,639
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're working on the script for number two. Now,

913
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:16,159
that's probably what I should be doing when I got

914
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:19,199
off this call, but I've got a three week old baby,

915
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,719
so I'll be doing some parents stuff but maybe later

916
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,679
tonight or something. But yeah, we've been going back and forth.

917
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:26,360
We actually have a script. We've been going back and

918
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,800
forth making some tweaks because we realize we've got a

919
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,599
little bit of time and we're so we're trying to

920
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:34,719
do as much as we possibly can before we move

921
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,559
on to the art and stuff. But I do think

922
00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:38,760
that there is a question, you know, as we're recording this,

923
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,360
this volume one is just out. We want to see,

924
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:44,039
you know, hopefully there is a market out there, and

925
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:47,039
I think that as a as a Christian love comics.

926
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:49,760
I always have this perception that there's just no Christian comics,

927
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,039
so there's so few, and most of them are from

928
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,239
years past. I think what I've realized just in the

929
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,239
last couple of years trying to really seek out Christian

930
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,199
comics is that there's more out there than I think.

931
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,679
But there's still not a lot, and especially not a

932
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:04,559
lot in comparison to the vast majority of secular comics

933
00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:06,920
that are out there. And so you'll see there's actually

934
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,039
some really great creators who are trying to create a

935
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:12,960
space for Christian comics a corner of the comics world.

936
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,280
But I think what we now need to do is

937
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,039
get the message out to Christians any church. I've ever

938
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:21,119
been part of any Bible study, any just I went

939
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:22,800
over to a Christians house and had some friends over,

940
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,440
I always have found at least one other person there

941
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,960
who's a big, hardcore, hardcore comic book fan like I am.

942
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,760
There's tons of Christians who love comics, but we just

943
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,920
got to find them and then alert them to the

944
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,679
idea that hey, there's stuff out here, and I hope

945
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:39,239
that it's you know, we're doing our best to make

946
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,280
it good, worth your while, and so hopefully the right

947
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,239
audience finds this and we've got lots of stories to tell,

948
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,039
so hopefully we can keep this thing going.

949
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,519
Speaker 6: I think to what you just said to me is

950
00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:52,039
something that we also think. Look, this is a gateway book.

951
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:54,360
Our hope is if you like Christian comics or like

952
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,079
comics at all, that this is a book that you

953
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:58,880
can give somebody who likes comics and we'll open a conversation.

954
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:01,599
So to that extent, what we want to do is

955
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:03,440
provide you with the follow up material. So all of

956
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,679
our books we always have a bonus package, and for

957
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,280
this book, the bonus package is pretty robust. On the

958
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,079
back inside cover of the book is the QR code.

959
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,079
So if you wanted to know, like, how is this

960
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:17,039
one minor character grounding his worldview? Because that's the character

961
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:19,920
that is probably going to speak about Christianity a little bit, Well,

962
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,800
how does he ground it? Well, we've got a digital

963
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,320
copy of our Case Closed book, which is a short

964
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,400
version of the Case for the Resurrection, So that's free

965
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,599
to anyone who buys the book. They can download that.

966
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,440
But also this is part of our bonus package. Also

967
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,880
along with a like a conversation guide that will address

968
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,840
some of the issues from both secular and Christian world

969
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,559
views that's available with this And what I thought of

970
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,159
it was because Jimmy said, like, do you know how

971
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:48,239
many other Christian He's got a like a Christian comic

972
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,719
book directory that was digital that we have as part

973
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,639
of this also, so if you buy the book and

974
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:55,360
download that, then at least you can look at it

975
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,400
and say, oh, yeah, I didn't know about these other

976
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,239
Christian comic books, and you can look them up and

977
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,079
find other Christian comic books. So also, by the way,

978
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:06,639
our thirty session Casemaker's course is now available through this book,

979
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,239
So that's something that if you wanted to be able

980
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,639
to communicate a Christian worldview better, that's the case that

981
00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:15,320
we that that course we created for h a seminary

982
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,119
gateway seminary. So it's a it's a free course. It's

983
00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:20,519
got all the written material as part of it. You know,

984
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:22,360
just take a look at it and see if it's

985
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,119
something that will be a value to you. But it's free.

986
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: If you buy the book.

987
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 4: Jim you did, God's not dead too, so you're pretty

988
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,320
much a movie star, right. So I am looking forward

989
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,519
to Kate. I'm looking forward to Case Files, the movie

990
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,559
starring Jimmy Wallace with Jay Warner Wallace in a supporting role.

991
00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:42,639
I can't wait to see it.

992
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 2: I can only imagine is Murphy as Murphy.

993
00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 6: I was just going to say, I knew you were

994
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,880
going to say that. You're going to say that, Yeah, exactly, No,

995
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:51,719
I'd say, what's funny about that too? Is we we

996
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:52,599
definitely think that?

997
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

998
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 6: I I we still those people are still in my life,

999
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,559
those producers and people are still in my life. But

1000
00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:59,400
I don't know that this will ever go past this

1001
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:03,199
first day. But I know this, Yeah, I get residual

1002
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,559
Did you know that I get a residual check. I

1003
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:09,639
get a residual check from from Hollywood, the Screen Actors Guild.

1004
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,119
I mean twice a year. No, I got dollar twelve.

1005
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:16,400
I made a dollar t Yeah, seriously, they said a

1006
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:20,039
check for one dollar and twelve cents for my role.

1007
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,519
And guy's not dead too.

1008
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: I like, I like how you said fifty five cents

1009
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,800
and he was like, oh no, it's not twelve.

1010
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,119
Speaker 3: Don't twice that much.

1011
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: Don't rip me off, man, It was more than twice

1012
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:29,719
that much.

1013
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: It probably like us more to mail it into like.

1014
00:45:33,039 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 6: That's what I said, That's what I thought. I thought,

1015
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,239
Why would you even I get those? I get about

1016
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,320
every six months, I get a dollar or a fifty

1017
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,679
five cents. I think it probably was fifty five cents

1018
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:44,239
once I told Jimmy, I laughed about it. But somewhere

1019
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,639
between fifty cents and a dollar I get every six months.

1020
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:47,159
Speaker 2: Pretty well.

1021
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,199
Speaker 4: If anything, you need to write another book just so

1022
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:50,920
we can have you guys on again, because this has

1023
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:51,760
been super fun.

1024
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 6: Well, thanks for having us. I really appreciate you guys

1025
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,159
so much. You know how much I appreciate your work.

1026
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:57,320
And by the way, Brian, you were one of the

1027
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,599
first people who ever had tipped me at all when

1028
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:01,320
I first I started it back in the day, so

1029
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,800
I still owe you one. Thanks.

1030
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: We love you guys.

1031
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:06,559
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for writing another great book and

1032
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,559
we can't wait to just see where this goes. So Jimmy,

1033
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:11,400
Jay Warner, thank you so much.

1034
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,199
Speaker 3: Blessings to you, Thank you and you too, Thanks so much.

1035
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,119
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you have a

1036
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:20,559
question you'd like us to address, or just a message

1037
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:23,239
for us feedback, good or bad, you can either email

1038
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,159
us at podcast at apologetics three fifteen dot com, or

1039
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,400
leave a voice message for us using speak Pipe. Just

1040
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:34,480
go to speakpipe dot com, slash apologetics three fifteen to

1041
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:37,360
leave us a message, and remember, if you include a

1042
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,320
ghostbuster's quote in your question, we guarantee that we'll read

1043
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,159
it on the podcast. We also ensure up to fifty

1044
00:46:43,199 --> 00:46:47,199
percent better quality answers. Also, if you've enjoyed today's podcast,

1045
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,159
please leave a review in iTunes or the podcast platform

1046
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:53,079
your choice, and please share this episode with a friend

1047
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:55,639
if you've found it useful. Remember you can find lots

1048
00:46:55,639 --> 00:47:00,239
of Apologetics resources at apologeticspreefifteen dot com, along with shows

1049
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,840
for today's episode, find Chad's apologetic stuff over at truthbomb apologetics.

1050
00:47:05,199 --> 00:47:07,960
That's truthbomb dot blogspot dot com.

1051
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: This has been Brian

1052
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,119
Speaker 5: Aughton and Chad Gross for the Apologetics three fifteen podcast

1053
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:13,119
and thanks for listening.