Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned many times that if I had
Speaker 1: a choice, I would try to live in Mexico. I'm
Speaker 1: getting along in years, and I unfortunately appreciate steady the
Speaker 1: Internet and streaming media, which isn't always possible in Mexico.
Speaker 1: And also I love the people, I love the food.
Speaker 1: It's just such a great place to visit. But I
Speaker 1: cannot see myself living there, and that's unfortunate. Maybe if
Speaker 1: I was a younger person I could, I could consider it.
Speaker 1: But we are going to Mexico and we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about some of my favorite places today, and we're
Speaker 1: focusing on Megaithic Mexico. And if you have ever been
Speaker 1: to Mexico to the old Ruins, the Maya, Aztec, whatever
Speaker 1: ancient culture you're visiting, and you look at the dwellings,
Speaker 1: you look at the pyramids, the temples. For the most part,
Speaker 1: as old of these places are, and they're made from stone,
Speaker 1: they are very refined. We don't see dolman. We don't
Speaker 1: see standing stones in Mexico like we see in Europe
Speaker 1: and in China and in the Middle East. We don't
Speaker 1: see it. Because I think that Mexico is very, very old.
Speaker 1: It's much older than we realize. And whenever we speak
Speaker 1: of megalists in Mexico, we're talking about very refined stone
Speaker 1: work to the level of sanding and polishing, and tools
Speaker 1: that are not from the local stone quarry. We're talking
Speaker 1: about either metal or cutting tools or torches or some
Speaker 1: form of cutting technology that we're not familiar with, which
Speaker 1: makes the ruins that we see even more spectacular but
Speaker 1: also a great curiosity. Hey, this is Cliff your Host
Speaker 1: of Earth Ancients, and today we are joined by my
Speaker 1: friend Marco Vigato. If you don't remember Marco, he was
Speaker 1: featured in the very First Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock
Speaker 1: and he was taking granted some of the Central Mexico
Speaker 1: sites and looking at the ruins. And Graham's studied Mexico,
Speaker 1: and I believe he's a firm believer that of all
Speaker 1: the ancient countries that have the greatest possible link to
Speaker 1: a mother culture, mother culture being Atlantis or in the
Speaker 1: case of the Maya and the Aztec atland the continent
Speaker 1: and the Atlantic Ocean, the buildings are refined. They're just amazing.
Speaker 1: And when we begin studying North America and Central America
Speaker 1: and we look at it from the indigenous perspective. These
Speaker 1: are indigenous scholars like Paulette Steves who we've had on
Speaker 1: the program, who has gone back and actually determined that
Speaker 1: many of the sites that we considered a few, you know,
Speaker 1: a few thousand years, and we're talking about the United
Speaker 1: States are closer to one hundred thousand years. And when
Speaker 1: we begin talking about settlements that are one hundred thousand years,
Speaker 1: this is where you get into some really amazing possibilities.
Speaker 1: Now earlier in the Earth Ancients development, we had some
Speaker 1: archaeologists who had done side scans sonar. One of them
Speaker 1: is doctor Greg Little, and Greg and his wife and
Speaker 1: a team went out to the Bimini area and dove
Speaker 1: approximately thirty feet and using side scan sonar, they passed
Speaker 1: the equipment down another thirty feet so it was like
Speaker 1: sixty to one hundred feet and discovered pyramids and the
Speaker 1: discovered temples. And when we look at these structures, they
Speaker 1: are very very similar to what we see in the
Speaker 1: Yucatan Peninsula, which is places like Ekbalam and Coba, the
Speaker 1: stairway pyramids that are there. And at that time it
Speaker 1: was almost too much for the archaeological community to even
Speaker 1: consider of a society that predates the Aztecs, the Maya people,
Speaker 1: and Sumerians in predynastic Egyptians. These are very very early
Speaker 1: civilizations that were beginning to see we're beginning to understand
Speaker 1: and remember what we see in Egypt and likely, and
Speaker 1: I'm a very very big advocate of this, is that
Speaker 1: these temples and these pyramids were reused over thousands of years.
Speaker 1: So they were built probably prehistory, and then there was devastation.
Speaker 1: There was asteroid hits, there was genocide, marauding, other people
Speaker 1: wiped out, you know, less sophisticated people and left their dwellings.
Speaker 1: And so when they were repopulated people places like chijinitsa
Speaker 1: ushmol Tiwa, Teva Khan and other great Maya and other
Speaker 1: great indigenous cities, they were repopulated with people who were
Speaker 1: not the original builders, who did not have the scientific
Speaker 1: and uh engineering prowess to build in the same manner
Speaker 1: that they that the buildings and the pyramid in the
Speaker 1: cities were built under. So when it comes to the
Speaker 1: megalithic theme, which is our program today, we're looking at
Speaker 1: stone works that are highly refined parts of temples that
Speaker 1: are missing. We're going to learn about a new ruin
Speaker 1: that's just a few hours east of Mexico City, that
Speaker 1: has the potential to be a groundbreaking location with unique pyramids,
Speaker 1: with unique stone masonry and artifacts. It sets a precedent
Speaker 1: for unique scholarship and begins stretching our minds. Now, now,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends and we have a
Speaker 1: lot of archaeologists on the program. Their work is incredibly important,
Speaker 1: but it ends at a certain area, and then we
Speaker 1: have to begin looking beyond that level of education because
Speaker 1: a lot of it's just not working anymore. And bring
Speaker 1: this up all the time. If you do not look
Speaker 1: at the subtle effects of tolleric energy lay lines underneath
Speaker 1: these city centers, then you're missing out on a whole
Speaker 1: history that the native people, that the indigenous elders talk
Speaker 1: about and they still work with. Now, in our tour
Speaker 1: are Guatemala Tour December first of the twelfth, we will
Speaker 1: actually touch base and we actually will walk and connect
Speaker 1: and in some cases reconnect with pyramids, temples and structures
Speaker 1: that are built and have been marked as places for
Speaker 1: connecting with Earth energy, gravitational forces again, the emissions from
Speaker 1: the Earth and they are enhanced and then passed over
Speaker 1: to the body, and you can do whatever you want
Speaker 1: with that, but it's important to remember that these are
Speaker 1: keys to understanding our ancestors, and archaeology doesn't even come
Speaker 1: close to it. I brought this up a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago. I think it was with Ed Barnhard that
Speaker 1: you know, you guys, archaeology adapted archaeo astronomy because they
Speaker 1: began realizing that a lot of these buildings were placed
Speaker 1: in a certain manner that connected with sunrise sunset, with
Speaker 1: the seasons, the solstices, and the equinoxes, and in some
Speaker 1: cases entire cities were aligned to constellations. And that's still
Speaker 1: one that is not accepted by university archaeologists. But the
Speaker 1: independent archaeologists who are not forced to adhere to protocols
Speaker 1: that are not necessarily very very flexible, are beginning to
Speaker 1: open to this. And my belief is that for archaeology
Speaker 1: to expand, they need to take on the subtle energy
Speaker 1: and have something like bioelectric archaeology or field studies, field
Speaker 1: energy studies of some kind where you measure the energy
Speaker 1: that's coming out of these buildings, these temples, these pyramids,
Speaker 1: and you determine perhaps what was going on now and
Speaker 1: that's the beginning of a whole new line of thinking.
Speaker 1: So today's program is with returning guests Marco Vigato, and
Speaker 1: we're talking about Megalithic Mexico. Earth. Ancients does a number
Speaker 1: of tours every year, and it's really important to have
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Speaker 1: If you're one of the first thirty people who purchase
Speaker 1: the standard package. Go to store dot Insta three sixty
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Speaker 1: that that selfie stick, which is worth twenty five bucks. Again,
Speaker 1: it's store dot Insta three sixty dot com. Use the
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Speaker 1: outstanding camera. Hold it in the palm of your hand.
Speaker 1: It's waterproof and it is a great camera. Check it
Speaker 1: out the Insta three sixty x five. One of the
Speaker 1: best researchers that I've discovered is my friend Marco Vigatto.
Speaker 1: I try to get Marco on the program at least
Speaker 1: once a year, but it's a challenge with him. We
Speaker 1: both have busy schedules. If you do not know who
Speaker 1: Marco Vigato is, he he wrote an excellent book called
Speaker 1: The Empires of Atlantis, The Origins of Ancient Civilizations and
Speaker 1: Mystery Traditions throughout the Ages. This is an excellent book,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you one of the reasons that Marco
Speaker 1: is a unique individual is because he works with the
Speaker 1: academics in Mexico and in parts of South America, Central America,
Speaker 1: I should say, and we'll talk a little more about that,
Speaker 1: but he has recently finished a couple of videos that
Speaker 1: I saw that are excellent, and we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about those today and his ongoing quest to uncover evidence
Speaker 1: of a very, very advanced civilization that predates the Aztecs,
Speaker 1: the Maya and the other cultures that are noted in
Speaker 1: Meso America. So hey, Marco, welcome back to Earth. Ancient
Speaker 1: it's great to see you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Clief. It's always a pleasure to
Speaker 2: be on the show.
Speaker 1: Hey, I want to and I never asked you this.
Speaker 1: You have a unique relationship with INA, the National Institute
Speaker 1: of Anthropology and History. I have discovered that when I'm
Speaker 1: talking to archaeologists in Mexico or Central and even South America,
Speaker 1: their perspective on history is much different than the Western culture.
Speaker 1: In other words, if you use the term atlantis to
Speaker 1: a United States archaeology just or anthropologists, they ten sep
Speaker 1: and go. We can't talk about that. We can't talk
Speaker 1: about ancient civilizations or prehistory. Let's just use the term prehistoric.
Speaker 1: What is it? Why is INA and these other archaeologists
Speaker 1: much more open to it? Is it because they have
Speaker 1: this indigenous background of these people that are part of
Speaker 1: their lives, and so because of their family history and
Speaker 1: because of being grown growing up in the culture that
Speaker 1: is much more loosely framed to prehistoric people, that it's
Speaker 1: more acceptable in these archaeologists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Well I wouldn't still use the a
Speaker 2: word with many archaeologists. That's still a pre taboo subject
Speaker 2: for most academics, whether from a Mexico Central America or
Speaker 2: the United States. But what they have found they many
Speaker 2: Mexican Latin American archeologists. They tend to be a lot
Speaker 2: more open minded towards the possibility of an earlier civilization
Speaker 2: or towards the possibility that some fundamental chapters in our
Speaker 2: history or prehistory have been lost. So yes, I have found,
Speaker 2: maybe they will not admit it publicly, but I have
Speaker 2: found many archaeologists within within the what it would call
Speaker 2: consider the academic mainstream here in Mexico are pretty open
Speaker 2: to this idea of a lost to civilization. And to
Speaker 2: your point, a part of that may be also a
Speaker 2: legacy of their traditional background, that there are still many,
Speaker 2: many traditions, many both mythical accounts ancient records from allver
Speaker 2: mes America that speak about how their civilization essentially came
Speaker 2: here from some so that may be part of the
Speaker 2: reason why they're so open to this possibilities.
Speaker 1: I have to wonder that I should say if the
Speaker 1: American influence is greater than we recognize, because when I
Speaker 1: look at places like Chichinitza and USh Mal and Coba
Speaker 1: and some even Central Mexico in the turn of the century,
Speaker 1: the country that was funding the excavations was the United States,
Speaker 1: and so if there were any hints of the A
Speaker 1: were being used Atlantis, they would quickly discuss the spense
Speaker 1: of that and maybe are continuing to be a great
Speaker 1: influence on the continual growth of and the education of Mexico.
Speaker 1: What do you say to.
Speaker 2: That DISA has changed over time though, I think if
Speaker 2: you go back just like fifty or seventy years, yes,
Speaker 2: you would see a field that was still very much
Speaker 2: dominated by North American and I mean mostly US based
Speaker 2: archeologists from this big academic institutions like Harvard, Yale, Princeton.
Speaker 2: We're doing a massive research excavation campaigns here in mes America.
Speaker 2: But then I would say since about seventy years ago,
Speaker 2: since the nineteen fifty is when a new generation of
Speaker 2: Mexican born and locally trained archeologists started taking over a
Speaker 2: lot of these excavations, bringing in new pressure perspective, something
Speaker 2: that to me very well symbolizes these atension between North
Speaker 2: American and Mexican or Latin American archeologists. So is the
Speaker 2: discovery or what they called discovery of all mexivilization, because
Speaker 2: that was started by American archaeologists like Matthew Sterling, for instance,
Speaker 2: or Racker. But then you have many Mexican archeologists who
Speaker 2: continued in their tracks significantly expanded that body of knowledge.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting the position that many of these US
Speaker 2: North American archeologists took back in the nineteen forties nineteen fifties,
Speaker 2: according to which the Mayas were the pretty much the
Speaker 2: only advanced civilization in meso America. There was this very
Speaker 2: Maya centric view which was completely shattered during the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifties and nineteen sixties with the discovery of the Omega.
Speaker 2: And this was led in large part by Mexican archeologists
Speaker 2: like Roman Pinachan, like Luis and Miguel Kovar Rubias, just
Speaker 2: to name a few.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is your impression of like the Maya that
Speaker 1: I speak with and the elders they refer to their
Speaker 1: homeland as Atland forgotten continent in in the Atlantic. Well,
Speaker 1: we know if that is do the people you speak
Speaker 1: with and in a recognize Atland or is it a
Speaker 1: mythology that they're kind of thinking about.
Speaker 2: Well, that's still considered a mythical account. Then that mostly
Speaker 2: originated with the Aztecs. So we're talking about the later
Speaker 2: time period that the post class In the history of
Speaker 2: mes America, the Aztecs had several origin myths that named
Speaker 2: a place called the Astland as their ancestral homeland. According
Speaker 2: to some accounts, that was located across the sea in
Speaker 2: the east. The raise a for instance, a very famous
Speaker 2: Aztec codex called the Codex Boturini, which is on display
Speaker 2: the National Museum of History in anthropology, which the bigs
Speaker 2: Aceland as an island completely surrounded by water, from which
Speaker 2: the ancestors of the Aztec people then migrated into the
Speaker 2: Valley of Mexico. But there are also accounts that situated
Speaker 2: Aslanta on the mainland, in a region that would more
Speaker 2: or less coincide with the southwest the United States. So
Speaker 2: the location of Iceland is pre controversial, and these mostly
Speaker 2: belongs to the world of mytha and mythology. What is
Speaker 2: true is that so many of the ancient meso American civilizations,
Speaker 2: including not only the Aztecs but also the Mayas, they
Speaker 2: had very clear traditions about the arrival of their ancestors
Speaker 2: from the sea from the east, so from the direction
Speaker 2: of the Atlantic Ocean, and there are plenty of these accounts.
Speaker 2: For instance, Bernardino of Saraguna, who was one of those
Speaker 2: early Spanish historians at the time of the conquest in
Speaker 2: the first half of the fifteen hundred. So he speaks
Speaker 2: about this tradition that the ancestors of all the meso
Speaker 2: American people, they came from the sea on ships, they
Speaker 2: landed on the coast of what is today Vera Cruz
Speaker 2: or Tamaulipas, and then moved inland to become the founders
Speaker 2: of meso American civilization. And also among the Mayas, you
Speaker 2: have very similar accounts in the popul War, for instance,
Speaker 2: the annaus of the Kachikels, which are different religious tacts
Speaker 2: from different Maya groups. The Mayas, for instance, who also
Speaker 2: speak about their ancestors coming from some land in the
Speaker 2: east after a very long journey over sea and land.
Speaker 2: So this all suggests at least a belief that there
Speaker 2: was shared among the meso American people that their ancestors
Speaker 2: were not native of meso America, but they came here
Speaker 2: from some other land that was likely located across the
Speaker 2: Atlantic Ocean to the east.
Speaker 1: Well, this is interesting that you bring that up, because
Speaker 1: I was curious about what the Mexican archaeological community believes
Speaker 1: were the original settlers if they still believed like the Americans,
Speaker 1: not all of the Americans, but many of them believed
Speaker 1: the Bearing Straight was the crossing bridge from Asia, Europe
Speaker 1: or Russia. But there's more and more independent archaeologists who
Speaker 1: believe that they traveled and they migrated by ocean routes,
Speaker 1: and actually the South American archaeologists have spoken with believe
Speaker 1: that Antarctica at one time may have been a place
Speaker 1: where the earliest ancestors came up through South America into
Speaker 1: Central and North America, which is not even considered by
Speaker 1: the American universities because it's not in their purview. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's like we need to have speaking about the United States,
Speaker 1: we need to have more more of a collective thought
Speaker 1: when we think of the migration of our ancestors. What
Speaker 1: do you say to that regarding Mexico.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't personally go as far as Antarctica, but you're
Speaker 2: absolutely right. There are several different models for the peopling
Speaker 2: of the Americas, and now the mainstream view that pretty
Speaker 2: much all of the ancestors of the present day Native Americans,
Speaker 2: they came from the varying straits, so from Northeast Asia
Speaker 2: has been challenged by several findings that show evidence of
Speaker 2: a very early human presence in the Americas. One of
Speaker 2: those a little controversial is a ceotique master on site
Speaker 2: a close San Diego would pushback the arrival of the
Speaker 2: first humans. We don't know whether they were anatomically modern humans.
Speaker 2: Maybe the under tells maybe denis Ovans, but that show
Speaker 2: there were people here in the America, probably as early
Speaker 2: as one hundred and thirty thousand years old years ago,
Speaker 2: which is a lot earlier than when this alleged migration
Speaker 2: through the Bearing Strait occurred. There's also evidence from plenty
Speaker 2: of sites across Mexico, central South America the show a
Speaker 2: very early human presence, probably as early as twenty or
Speaker 2: thirty thousand BC, which is again much earlier than when
Speaker 2: archaeologists paleontologists believe these ice recorded or existed between Siberia
Speaker 2: and Alaska through the Bearing Strait. There's also this mystery
Speaker 2: about the so called palaeo Americans. There are obviously very
Speaker 2: few skeletons that have been discovered and from which DNA
Speaker 2: could be recovered dating to such an early time period,
Speaker 2: but it's interesting to observe that all these early skeletons
Speaker 2: were talking about three ten thousand BC that have been
Speaker 2: found in the Americas, like the Kennectwickman and the Spirit
Speaker 2: Keith Mummy, for instance, many found in senopees in the
Speaker 2: Maya region as well. They show physical and genetic traits
Speaker 2: that are not found among living a Native American populations.
Speaker 2: So that almost suggests the existence of an ancestral population
Speaker 2: which is generally referred to as paleo Americans, which was
Speaker 2: then replaced, likely by invaders, by newcomers that came in
Speaker 2: through the Bearing Strait at the end of the lasta
Speaker 2: Ice Age.
Speaker 1: Now this is a big one for me, and I
Speaker 1: think you follow the same mindset, which is we have
Speaker 1: this younger, driest period where there seems to be a
Speaker 1: firm stop of culture civilization worldwide, which lends us to
Speaker 1: think that there was a catastrophic event that wiped out
Speaker 1: both the megafauna and human lifestyle. But and I've read
Speaker 1: your book, for the most part, it seems to me,
Speaker 1: Marco that many, many, many of these ancient sites throughout
Speaker 1: Mexico and some of these old locations are repopulated after
Speaker 1: this event. And this is what archaeologists and each hortologists
Speaker 1: are finding. I've had a couple on my program, and
Speaker 1: there's a whole what they're being called reuse of temples pyramids,
Speaker 1: and this is a real problem because I think I
Speaker 1: would like to hear from you on this one, that
Speaker 1: the academic world is not recognizing the possibilities of a
Speaker 1: very very antiquity period, you know, tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: years or more, where there was a very very high
Speaker 1: level of culture that was wiped out, and then there
Speaker 1: were the survivors who repopulated, and these are the people
Speaker 1: we consider the the Aztecs, the Maya, and these other
Speaker 1: cultures that are frequently referred to as the ancients of Mexico.
Speaker 2: There are really two big watershed moments in the settlement
Speaker 2: of the Americas and in the development of mess American civilization.
Speaker 2: The first one was Pray around the time after the
Speaker 2: Younger Drayas, after the end of the Last Ice Age,
Speaker 2: where you see this massive inflow of people into North America,
Speaker 2: likely from Northeast Asia, possibly from other origins as well.
Speaker 2: These people brought the agriculture as well, so you have
Speaker 2: the appearance of our agriculture in central Mexico, in the
Speaker 2: Valley of Tewakanquebla just around eight thousand BC, which is
Speaker 2: remarkably closer to when agriculture also appears almost suddenly in
Speaker 2: the Tile Crescent, in the Middle East, China, in the
Speaker 2: South America, and so many other places around the world.
Speaker 2: So that again suggests that these people brought a more
Speaker 2: advanced cultural knowledge of agriculture, of crop domestication into all
Speaker 2: these different places. And the Second Watershed moment is at
Speaker 2: the beginning of what the meso American archeologists referred to
Speaker 2: as the pre Classic or Formative period. So we're talking
Speaker 2: about the time roughly two thousand to fifteen hundred years
Speaker 2: of BC, three thousand, five hundred to four thousand years ago.
Speaker 2: That's when all mag civilization arises. And what you see
Speaker 2: around that time is the sub emergence of a high culture.
Speaker 2: High civilization in the meso America appearances out of nowhere
Speaker 2: of all mega civilization, bringing in new artistic styles, a
Speaker 2: new technology. And this is I think one of the bigger,
Speaker 2: not the biggest enigma in mes American archaeology. Where the
Speaker 2: this culture that we call today the Olmecs come from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's talk about the Omes for a minute,
Speaker 1: because that's one of your sweet spots. Uh. I kind
Speaker 1: of want to think when I think of Marko Vigato,
Speaker 1: I think of the Olmec man. But uh, there are
Speaker 1: some people that believe that there is a link to
Speaker 1: China with the Olmec, and there's similar uh in some
Speaker 1: of their writing. I've had a couple of researchers on
Speaker 1: the program that believe that they were into Yogic Hindu
Speaker 1: uh influence. What do you say about their origins? I mean,
Speaker 1: if if I talk to if I talk to a
Speaker 1: classic archaeologist, like we have Ed Barnhardt on the program
Speaker 1: all the time. I love the guy, but they just
Speaker 1: cannot go beyond their educator, their training. They can't consider
Speaker 1: any other origin of their of the OMEG. What do
Speaker 1: you say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's very fascinating because if you look
Speaker 2: at all mac art, particularly early all macart or art
Speaker 2: of the formative period of mes American civilization, what you
Speaker 2: find is a remarkable diversity, both in terms of artistic
Speaker 2: representations in terms of also of what looks like ethnic diversity. Now,
Speaker 2: this is a pre controversial subject. I think anyone who
Speaker 2: attempts to claim there were transoceanic voyages or Transoceanic conduct
Speaker 2: is immediately labeled as a racist or a white supremacist
Speaker 2: these days, but it's truly remarkable. If you look at
Speaker 2: how these people depicted themselves or the people around them,
Speaker 2: you find that the most fascinating combination and that mixture
Speaker 2: of different types. You find people look obviously meso American
Speaker 2: or Native Americans, but you also see people that look
Speaker 2: clearly Asian, and I mean mostly like Asian, almost with
Speaker 2: Chinese or Japanese wace. So you find people who look
Speaker 2: more like Black Africans. If you think about this colossal
Speaker 2: all maccans, and again I know this is a pre
Speaker 2: controversial subject, and you find also people represented on steelers
Speaker 2: and monument that look like Calcazoid are not gonna say Europeans,
Speaker 2: but definitely Calcazoids, maybe even Semitic. And you have all
Speaker 2: these different people apparently living together in the early pre
Speaker 2: Classic period, and then these huge diversity simply disappears. You
Speaker 2: no longer have those representations. The artistic style that you find,
Speaker 2: for instance, during the twenty one Cana during the Maya
Speaker 2: period becomes pretty standardized, and you find only representations of
Speaker 2: people that you would identify today as Native Americans. So
Speaker 2: what happened to all these other different strains they may
Speaker 2: have come to mes America. I think that's a really
Speaker 2: really important question now about the possibility of a Chinese
Speaker 2: at present. There have been studies, mostly by Micah Zeu,
Speaker 2: who analyze some of those jade celts from the site
Speaker 2: of Levanta. It's a pretty remarkable collection. It belonged to
Speaker 2: an offering which is presently on displaying the National Museum
Speaker 2: of History and Anthropology here in Mexico City. And these skeelts,
Speaker 2: if you observe them, they appear to be almost like
Speaker 2: miniature still as you have all these different macloid looking figures.
Speaker 2: They're standing all around them as if performing some kind
Speaker 2: of ritual. But the most interesting part is that these
Speaker 2: celts are engraved with some symbols that look like hieroglyphics.
Speaker 2: They do not belong to any known script in meso America,
Speaker 2: but these researcher Mike Seals suggests that they are the
Speaker 2: same type of script found on Chinese oracular bones from
Speaker 2: the Shang dynasty, which is a contemporaneous with the Olmecs,
Speaker 2: dating from between two thousand to sixteen hundred BC. Now,
Speaker 2: This is controversial because it's based on there a very
Speaker 2: limited set of symbols. But then if you also look,
Speaker 2: for instance, Olmec art, you have many of those beautiful
Speaker 2: carved jade or certain tine masks that have very clear
Speaker 2: Asian or East Asian traits. They look almost to Chinese,
Speaker 2: almost Japanese. You have the fascination with Jada, the knowledge
Speaker 2: of magnetism among the Olmecs, where you find magnetic compasses,
Speaker 2: for instance, at the site like so there are many
Speaker 2: points of conducts. But the same could be said, for instance,
Speaker 2: of the possibility of conduct with ancient India. There is
Speaker 2: a beautiful bas relief carving at the site of Alta
Speaker 2: Hina that appears to depict a very famous episode from
Speaker 2: Indian mythology called the churning of the Milky Ocean, and
Speaker 2: it's completely out of place. At the meso American site,
Speaker 2: you have many other artistic representations that would almost suggest
Speaker 2: a Phoenician influence. So I am personally very open to
Speaker 2: the possibility that different people's different cultures discovered meso America
Speaker 2: or the America at at different points in time and
Speaker 2: left their market. This is not to say that they
Speaker 2: were necessarily the originators of a mes American culture and civilization,
Speaker 2: which I believe was mostly on first and foremost a
Speaker 2: native and DeVore, but they may have exerted at least
Speaker 2: some level of influence over its development.
Speaker 1: What is the problem with the diffusion question, which is
Speaker 1: migrating cultural exchange? You talked about a racial diversity of
Speaker 1: Mexico in an early phase of its development. What is
Speaker 1: the problem? Do you think that they the academics, don't
Speaker 1: believe that man was sophisticated to build ships to navigate
Speaker 1: the oceans. Is that what the problem is? Because this
Speaker 1: to this day, to this day, there is a star,
Speaker 1: a sharp stop when it comes to cultural exchange from
Speaker 1: any other country but the original country. So that's called diffusion.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do think there are two fundamental issues that
Speaker 2: academics have with these diffusion hypotheses. The first one, as
Speaker 2: you say, is I would say general ignorance maybe of
Speaker 2: the capabilities of those ancient people. So when it came
Speaker 2: to navigation, it's very clear that our ancestors from very
Speaker 2: early on had presophisticated navigation capabilities. If you go back,
Speaker 2: for instance, into the time of the Phoenicians, many Phoenician
Speaker 2: ships there were circum navigating Africa at the time, or
Speaker 2: conducting trade expeditions to northern Europe to the British Isles.
Speaker 2: They're probably better suited for transoceanic voyages than many of
Speaker 2: the ships of the fifteenth or sixteenth century, including the
Speaker 2: boats that Columbus used to reach the America. So I
Speaker 2: do think that many ancient peoples, among them the Phoenicians,
Speaker 2: the Great the Romans, right the Egyptians, the Chinese, they
Speaker 2: certainly had the capability of reaching the American continent. But
Speaker 2: this is a field that has not yet been explored
Speaker 2: to any level of death, that of the possibility of
Speaker 2: longer transoceanic voyages in ancient times. And I do think
Speaker 2: that many of the archaeologists and scholars who have studied
Speaker 2: this subjects are generally pretty ignorant about the nautical or
Speaker 2: navigational capabilities of these ancient peoples. And then there is
Speaker 2: a second consideration, which I think is also a reflection
Speaker 2: of the prejudice that was mentioned earlier, that anyone we
Speaker 2: even mentioned the possibility that this culture scheme from somewhere
Speaker 2: else or influenced by voyagers from across the seas immediately
Speaker 2: labeled as a racist or a white su pramacist. I
Speaker 2: think there is this sort of anti coonial bias in
Speaker 2: a way, according to which anyone who even suggest the
Speaker 2: possibilities immediately labeled as a colonialist. I find it's funny
Speaker 2: fascinating because when it is seafarers from the Old World
Speaker 2: that coming into America, that's racist. But when you're talking
Speaker 2: about early agriculturalists from the Middle East getting into Europe
Speaker 2: and starting a civilization in Europe, that it's perfectly acceptable.
Speaker 2: It's off racism. So there is a bit of a
Speaker 2: I think, a contradiction here in which, on the one hand,
Speaker 2: archaeologists are very open to accept the possibility of cultural
Speaker 2: diffusion when it comes from people outside of Europe, but
Speaker 2: when you're talking about given the possibility of contact between
Speaker 2: the new the Old World and the New World, then
Speaker 2: this hypothesis is immediately shunned and labeled as racist.
Speaker 1: I mean, you work with a lot of archaeologists, and
Speaker 1: I work with them, and I have friends or archaeologists.
Speaker 1: There's a hard stop when it comes to this diffusion.
Speaker 1: What has to happen, Marco. I don't want to spend
Speaker 1: a lot more time on this, but do we have
Speaker 1: to find a codis that says that they traveled from
Speaker 1: ancient Europe to the shores of Mexico, or I mean,
Speaker 1: what has to happen for this, because it's becoming a real.
Speaker 2: We do have that say, if you think about some
Speaker 2: of the early contact between Europeans and the Native Americans.
Speaker 2: There is a very famous letter by Cortes in which
Speaker 2: mokte Sumat the second, the Yaztec Latoua and Yaztec emperor,
Speaker 2: tells Cortes that their ancestors were not native of that land,
Speaker 2: that they came from a far away land in the east,
Speaker 2: or plenty of convices that talk about this migration from
Speaker 2: the east, but these are always considered to be mythical
Speaker 2: accounts and fairy tales. I think the Native Americans themselves,
Speaker 2: they had no clue about their origins, were just making
Speaker 2: up stories to please the Spanish. So that's at least
Speaker 2: the mains review that these stories were all made up
Speaker 2: by the measure to please the Spanish. But then it
Speaker 2: becomes hard to explain it when you find that the
Speaker 2: exact same story toll, for instance, in the popul Vu,
Speaker 2: whose origins date back to the very early times of
Speaker 2: Malia civilization, it also gives a very similar account of
Speaker 2: the arrival of their ancestors by sea. So you do have,
Speaker 2: in fact, many of these mythical written accounts. You have
Speaker 2: artistic representations of people that are shown as barely Asians,
Speaker 2: possibly even black Africans. They clearly do not look like
Speaker 2: meso Americans. And all of these is just dismissed either
Speaker 2: as fairy tales, coincidence, or just exaggerated representation of some
Speaker 2: very peculiar types. Now, I do think that in order
Speaker 2: to inge these partying, we need some hard facts, some
Speaker 2: irrefutable evidence, as it would be to find authentic Old
Speaker 2: World artifacts here in meso America. That's one avenue of research,
Speaker 2: and you may argue that we have quite a few
Speaker 2: of these artifacts. There is the famous case of a
Speaker 2: little lay head from a site called kalish Lawaka right
Speaker 2: outside of Mexico City, which has been firmly dated to
Speaker 2: the second century idiots of Roman manufacturer. Nobody questions that
Speaker 2: the head is a Roman manufacturing was found by one
Speaker 2: of the most famous Mexican archeologists, Alfonso Castle, during a
Speaker 2: legitimate archaeological excavation at a then pristine site, with no
Speaker 2: evidence of later intrisions or contamination coming from a genuine
Speaker 2: Hispanic burial. So if you look for it, you will
Speaker 2: find evidence. You will find a number of objects that
Speaker 2: can show that can show pretty clearly pre Colombian contact
Speaker 2: happened and they take place. Two other avenues that are
Speaker 2: obviously more recent there are botanical or palo botanical research
Speaker 2: and genetic research. Palot botanical research is important because that
Speaker 2: shows that the number of crops of all the world
Speaker 2: crops made their way into meso American and South America
Speaker 2: from very early times, and vice versa as well. You
Speaker 2: have the very famous case of the nicotine or cocaine
Speaker 2: mummies for instance. You have even depictions in paintings in
Speaker 2: Pompeii many Roman sides what can only be pineapples. You
Speaker 2: have representations of meso American corn in medieval Indian temples.
Speaker 2: So there is, in fact, I think, lots of evidence
Speaker 2: that these contacts took place. The most controversial one is
Speaker 2: the genetic evidence. This is unfortunately limited by the very
Speaker 2: small number of genetic samples taken on mes American and
Speaker 2: particularly early mes American all mex skeletons. It's fascinating that
Speaker 2: only two complete all mixed skeletons have survived that could
Speaker 2: be genetically tested, and whenever these genetic tests are conducted,
Speaker 2: there is a pretty strong evidence or at least like
Speaker 2: strong hymns and the possibility of a different yet unknown
Speaker 2: founding populations of the Americas. There is this question about
Speaker 2: applogroup X, which is a specific DNA APPO group which
Speaker 2: has been found among ancient Native Americans and quite interestingly
Speaker 2: also among certain populations in the Near East that could
Speaker 2: potentially hint at a connection. There is a genetic evidence
Speaker 2: that different populations brought a genetic material into Mesomerican, into
Speaker 2: the genetic fool of ancient meso American population that did
Speaker 2: not come from varying from these migrations. But these studies,
Speaker 2: as I said, there's still at a very incipient stage.
Speaker 2: There is still a lot of research that needs to
Speaker 2: be done, and the available semple also of skeletons or
Speaker 2: bonb materials to be tested limited, particularly for the o world,
Speaker 2: because the tropical climate does not allow for the conservation
Speaker 2: of those kinds of organic remains.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 1: our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
Speaker 1: with my guest today Marco Degato, coming to us from
Speaker 1: Mexico City, discussing evidence of megalithic cultures in Mexico. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back. I want to mention we'll be in
Speaker 1: Guatemala just this coming December. It's our Sacred Temples of
Speaker 1: Ancient Guatemala December first to the twelfth. We are actually
Speaker 1: going to connect with pyramids, climb pyramids, temples and actually
Speaker 1: integrate with them and the ley line energy that comes
Speaker 1: forth up through them. For all the details, go to
Speaker 1: Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours and see for
Speaker 1: yourself all the details. Now back to our guests, Marco
Speaker 1: Vigato coming to us from Mexico. Are you saying that
Speaker 1: there's a DNA genome of the OMEC that's been traced
Speaker 1: to other parts of the world.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's uh, well, uh, that's uh. There's been a
Speaker 2: genetic There have been genetic tests conducted on shoo all
Speaker 2: mex skeletons in an attempt to demonstrate that these all
Speaker 2: mex skeletons did not come from Africa. And what this
Speaker 2: test showed was that there was at least no recognizable
Speaker 2: African ancestry in those skeletons. Now you can also argue
Speaker 2: the test was done on only to skeletons, so that's
Speaker 2: a pretty partial view. However, the same study and also
Speaker 2: later study showed the genetical mixture from what is called
Speaker 2: a ghost population, meaning that it cannot be traced to
Speaker 2: any living meso American descendant or any known population of
Speaker 2: the ancient world that has been genetically sampled. And this
Speaker 2: is typically referred to in academic papers as eupop A,
Speaker 2: with a second the unknown ghost population, also recently discovered,
Speaker 2: called eupop B. The reason why these are referred to
Speaker 2: as ghost populations is that the geneticists have no idea
Speaker 2: where they came from. They do not match the genetic
Speaker 2: profile of any living Meta American people or any extinct
Speaker 2: people that has been genetically sampled. Now, this is not
Speaker 2: to say that they came from the oil world or
Speaker 2: from some other origin. It just says that we do
Speaker 2: not know where they came from, but they were likely
Speaker 2: not Native Americans.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. Let's get into some of your
Speaker 1: work you. I think it's at least seven eight years
Speaker 1: that you began developing an interest in megalithic research and
Speaker 1: you formed your RX project ARX project to begin researching this,
Speaker 1: which is just exemplary work. Before we get into sam Miguel,
Speaker 1: which is the kind of the feature that we're presenting
Speaker 1: this week. Talk about your interest in megalithic research and
Speaker 1: why you believe it is the what I call the
Speaker 1: signature of a much earlier advanced culture.
Speaker 2: I think it is very much ignored here in Mexico.
Speaker 2: When you think about the great ancient megalithic cultures, you
Speaker 2: immediately go to Eja, Peru, maybe some of these great
Speaker 2: megalithic sites, but most people will not think about Mexico
Speaker 2: as one of the epicenters of these worldwide megalithic phenomenon,
Speaker 2: even though there are clearly very impressive megalithic sites in Mexico,
Speaker 2: and that they may not be as well known as
Speaker 2: some of these other places in Egypt, Peru, for instance.
Speaker 2: I do think that here in Mexico as well, we
Speaker 2: find evidence of the same worldwide megalithic culture they built
Speaker 2: in a very similar way you find sophisticated stone worker.
Speaker 2: You find evidence of stone working techniques that imply the
Speaker 2: use of a pres sophisticated technology for cuting raising these
Speaker 2: huge stone blocks. There is a colossal monolith which now
Speaker 2: stands in the center of Mexico City that weighs over
Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty tons. There was likely and for
Speaker 2: the city of a totti Wacan it's a colossal statue
Speaker 2: which is interpreted is a representation of the rain, and
Speaker 2: now nobody really has an idea about what deity that
Speaker 2: represented may have been a ruler. For what we know,
Speaker 2: there is an evidence all over toti Wacana, for instance,
Speaker 2: of an earlier megalithic layer that what we see today
Speaker 2: with the pyramids, the ceremonial avenues of the palace was
Speaker 2: in fact built over a much earlier megalithic sides, and
Speaker 2: you find many remnants of these megalithic architecture throughout the site.
Speaker 2: I've personally documented several of these megalithic sites in very
Speaker 2: remote parts of Mexico in the state of Morelos in Guerrero.
Speaker 2: The show remarkable affinity with the megalithic structures of Peru
Speaker 2: in the form of giant polygonal wolves, for instance, a
Speaker 2: huge megalithic structtures with perfectly fitting stone blocks, monolithic architecture
Speaker 2: carved directly from the bedrock. There is a beautiful site
Speaker 2: called texcot Single, which was also featured in the Ancient
Speaker 2: Apocalypse show, which was a part of with the Graham Hancock.
Speaker 2: The show's exactly the same kind of monolithic architectural rock,
Speaker 2: cup surfaces, stairways. There's a beautiful, almost perfectly circular tube
Speaker 2: at this site, which bear an uncanny similarity with the
Speaker 2: megalithic monolithic sides throughout the worlds. It's really a similarity
Speaker 2: you find across megalithic sides, and the fact that those
Speaker 2: megalithic architectural layers they always tend to be the oldest
Speaker 2: up on which later cultures then built upon and they
Speaker 2: erected their own temples, own sacred site. So you find
Speaker 2: pretty much twelve the entire ancient world this part turn
Speaker 2: of reuse of earlier megalithic sites.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about your latest discovery,
Speaker 1: which is in San Miguel. It's funny because you open
Speaker 1: the video and you're driving everywhere. It's three hours from
Speaker 1: Mexico City, which is not.
Speaker 2: More than that. It's almost four hours almost say, on
Speaker 2: pretty bad roads.
Speaker 1: I really liked it because you feature the site features
Speaker 1: twenty megalithic stones and a number of them remind me
Speaker 1: of Tiuanaku and Bolivia, which I thought was a very
Speaker 1: very interesting comparison to talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: So this is up to me, one of the most
Speaker 2: fascinating sites in meso American, one that has the potential
Speaker 2: of quite literally rewriting the history of mes American civilization.
Speaker 2: It is a site, as you said, Cliff, located about
Speaker 2: four hours away from Mexico City, called the Sammielic Staff,
Speaker 2: and it's a pretty obscure site. You will not find
Speaker 2: it on any major publication of mes America, even though
Speaker 2: for a very short period of time in the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifties it was at the center of a very significant
Speaker 2: academic controversy because you have these two archaeologists, including Charles Wicki,
Speaker 2: a very famous mes American archaeology erote extensively on the
Speaker 2: Olnecks who visited the site, and upon seeing these perfectly
Speaker 2: carved megalithic architectural huge stone slabs, they immediately published an
Speaker 2: article suggesting the possibility of a connection with South America,
Speaker 2: particularly with Tijuanahu and Charles wiki was very qualified to
Speaker 2: make this comparison because he had studied extensively the inch
Speaker 2: and sites in Peru, particle in the area of the
Speaker 2: Sacred Valley in New Organtic Tambo. He had done several
Speaker 2: excavations in Peruin, mes America, so it was very well
Speaker 2: trained to recognize those kinds of similarities in stonework. Obviously,
Speaker 2: this was immediately dismissed by most meso American archaeologists based
Speaker 2: on one very interesting observation and the fact that these
Speaker 2: huge stone slabs, some which weigh up to fifteen tones,
Speaker 2: must have been carved with metal tools. That was the
Speaker 2: conclusion of those meso American archaeologists, mostly Mexican archaeologists, who
Speaker 2: by observing the very precise cuts, right angles, perfectly flat surfaces,
Speaker 2: very much as you find at Duanacud or some very
Speaker 2: small drill holes, there are only a fraction of a
Speaker 2: millimeter in some of these stone artifacts from some meetic
Speaker 2: staff and exactly is you find at Tiwanacu. And what
Speaker 2: this archeologist said is that you must have had metal
Speaker 2: tools for even still tools to do this kind of
Speaker 2: work in a wrock as hard as buzzalt or undeside.
Speaker 2: And so they essentially dismissed all these incredible stone work
Speaker 2: as colonial. They believe they must date to the colonial period,
Speaker 2: to a Spanish period, and probably be part of some
Speaker 2: church or some sort of colonial building. And so that
Speaker 2: was the situation. There was a state of research up
Speaker 2: until the site was in a way rediscovered over the
Speaker 2: last decade or so. It was one very important discovery.
Speaker 2: It changed this picture completely in the early two thousand
Speaker 2: when two of these slabs were found inside a sealed
Speaker 2: chamber under the main pyramid of the site. The chamber
Speaker 2: was dated to seven hundred eight. Now this is the
Speaker 2: dating of the chamber. We don't know if the slabs
Speaker 2: were contemporaneous. I actually believe these labs were much much older.
Speaker 2: They were simply reused inside these sealed offering.
Speaker 1: How were they re used Marco. Were they part of
Speaker 1: a wall arrangement or they put into the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were part of an offering. So it looks
Speaker 2: like they created a chamber inside the pyramid and they
Speaker 2: filled that chamber with artifacts. So there were statues. Two
Speaker 2: of these labs were found there upside down, clearly not
Speaker 2: in their original position. Tons of other offerings, including pottery, ceramics,
Speaker 2: were founding. It was almost like a cachete. It's very fascinating.
Speaker 2: It's as if they collected a lot of artifacts. They
Speaker 2: were clearly very valuable, it's sacred to them, and they
Speaker 2: buried them inside the pyramid. We don't know why they
Speaker 2: did that. Maybe it was to protect them from some invasion.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was as a way of sort of like
Speaker 2: ritually ceiling burying the site, but that essentially served as
Speaker 2: a time capsule where so many of these very early
Speaker 2: artifacts were preserved inside what is an Epiclassic structure dating
Speaker 2: from seven hundred eighty. The importance of this discovery, however,
Speaker 2: is that it showed beyond any reasonable doubt that these
Speaker 2: beautifully carved stone slabs are genuine, ancient pre Hispanic artifacts.
Speaker 2: These are not colonial objects, so the mystery now is
Speaker 2: when were they carved, by whom and how since then?
Speaker 2: It also thanks up to the work of the Arcs
Speaker 2: Foundation and of the local side director Victorio Sordio, at
Speaker 2: least the twenty of these massive megalytic monuments have been discovered,
Speaker 2: the insa Megaelic staff and the in nearby side. These
Speaker 2: are constantly new monuments are constantly being uncouvered, which gives
Speaker 2: us the idea that this was a huge site. Everywhere
Speaker 2: you look in some Egelic step and you find you
Speaker 2: see mounds that must have been pyramids. You find a
Speaker 2: lot of exposed stonework, huge beautifully carved stone blocks on
Speaker 2: the sides of heels up that were most likely pyramids.
Speaker 2: So that gives us the idea that the whole buried
Speaker 2: city lies at that side of some agelic staff. And
Speaker 2: then we have barely stretched the surface, very much like
Speaker 2: a t one a Queen Bolivia.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, it doesn't look like any
Speaker 1: ground penetrating radar have been done in that Sa Miguel region,
Speaker 1: but I think it screams for lightar just to give
Speaker 1: a basic surface understanding of Absolutely. I mean, if it's
Speaker 1: a big if it's a big piece of property, that
Speaker 1: would really help archaeologists understand maybe the layout of better.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely. This is actually part of our research proposal
Speaker 2: that we way I am in the ARCS Foundation with
Speaker 2: the local site director, have submitted to the Mexican National
Speaker 2: Institute of Historial Anthropology to start with a complete mapping
Speaker 2: of the site using area photographs. We're using lighter because
Speaker 2: our feeling is that this is a very large site
Speaker 2: just by an initial estimate of the size of the
Speaker 2: site is that it measures at least three possibly five
Speaker 2: kilometers long by one point five to two kilometers wide,
Speaker 2: So we're talking about the very large site, and all
Speaker 2: over this area you find evidence of mounds, piles of
Speaker 2: warped stones, structures that suggest a very extensive site. Now
Speaker 2: lither would greatly help in order to map out the
Speaker 2: extent of the site and all these different ancient structures,
Speaker 2: as well as identifying potential target locations for conducting excavations,
Speaker 2: maybe conducting some trial excavations, digging a trench or digging
Speaker 2: trenches inside some of these mounds.
Speaker 1: Has any carbon dating been done to any of the sites?
Speaker 2: Were glad you asked that because this is also one
Speaker 2: of the most controversial aspects of this site. I mentioned
Speaker 2: that the dating of some of these structures to the
Speaker 2: Epic Classic periods seven and AD, but these are some
Speaker 2: of the early some of the sorry some of the
Speaker 2: most recent structures at the site. It was one fascinating
Speaker 2: chance discovery that occurred around if not mistaken, that would
Speaker 2: have been around the twenty twelve at some Eelic step
Speaker 2: and when workers from the local phone company were laying
Speaker 2: the foundation for a mobile phone tower on top of
Speaker 2: a mound that happened to be a pyramid. They broke
Speaker 2: into a stone chamber on the top of this mound
Speaker 2: which contained a burial. Now these people instead of just
Speaker 2: taking the artifacts and taking them away, they alerted the
Speaker 2: local authorities about the discovery, and when the in archaeologist scheme,
Speaker 2: they excavated a burial that looks like an ol burial
Speaker 2: because they found large quantities of jade serpentine objects. There
Speaker 2: is a beautiful stone mask which is made of a
Speaker 2: yet unidentified material and when I say and identifies, because
Speaker 2: no research is being conducted, it could be jade, could
Speaker 2: be serpentine escalated some precious stone. A beautiful eighty eight
Speaker 2: tendant was found, which is totally all mech in style.
Speaker 2: With some of those micro perforations that was just describing,
Speaker 2: there are less in a fraction of a millimeter and
Speaker 2: some skeleton remains. All materials were found that were carbon
Speaker 2: dated by a local archeologist normal rays, and what was
Speaker 2: shocking was the data which was a fifteen hundred pc
Speaker 2: three thousand, five hundred years ago. Now keep in mind
Speaker 2: that this burial was found on the top of a period,
Speaker 2: so we're not even talking about the earliest layers of
Speaker 2: the site. If true, and if confirmed, that would show
Speaker 2: that this site is at least as old as the
Speaker 2: Gulf Coast all mech Sides, if not possibly earlier than that.
Speaker 2: Some of the earliest dates for San Lorenzo, for instance,
Speaker 2: are in the range of fourteen hundred to twelve one
Speaker 2: hundred BC, so this site will be at least contemporaneus,
Speaker 2: but possibly even older than the omax Sides on the
Speaker 2: Gulf Coast.
Speaker 1: One thing I'm curious about, Marco, is that the type
Speaker 1: of cutting used in these megalithic slabs that you present
Speaker 1: in your work are similar to tunaku, but they seem
Speaker 1: extremely sophisticated, and there's no way of knowing what the
Speaker 1: cutting tool was because they're just such precision in the
Speaker 1: way they're they're formed. Is there any hint at what
Speaker 1: the technology could be?
Speaker 2: So we have suggest a still conducting a petrologic petrographic
Speaker 2: study on those slabs, because just because of the nature
Speaker 2: of the stone, now techniques have been developed that they
Speaker 2: can identify traces of a foreign elements like metal. For instance,
Speaker 2: it was used for carving those labs up to one
Speaker 2: part per million. So obviously, even if you're using tools
Speaker 2: that could have been made of copper, runs or some
Speaker 2: other material. Those tools inevitably would leave microparticles in the stone,
Speaker 2: particular in those more porosities in the stone, which can
Speaker 2: be analyzed with the use of those mass spectrometers and
Speaker 2: those devices. Those tools are now used in the field
Speaker 2: of archaeology. So this is a part of our research
Speaker 2: proposal for some Meeli Steppa. We have not only the slabs,
Speaker 2: but we also have a pre Hispanic quarry site that
Speaker 2: was discovered by the site director of Victorious Area and
Speaker 2: myself just about the three years ago, which contains a
Speaker 2: huge monolith still in the process of extraction from a
Speaker 2: Bazout quarry, and so that could potentially provide important elements
Speaker 2: to understand the kind of tools, what techniques were employed
Speaker 2: in or to cut the huge stone blocks.
Speaker 1: Wow, that would be fantastic if you can figure that
Speaker 1: one out. John Burke, who did a lot of energy
Speaker 1: testing at pyramid sites that t call and in Tunaku,
Speaker 1: measured energy fluctuations and emissions at Tunaku, and I wondered
Speaker 1: has anyone done anything like that at San Miguel or
Speaker 1: is that just too far along?
Speaker 2: Not Yeta, not Yeta. There will be a fascinating line
Speaker 2: of study. But what I can tell you is that
Speaker 2: there have been many There's been a lot of research,
Speaker 2: particularly to all max sites, around the magnetic properties of
Speaker 2: some of the stones they were employed. That there is evidence,
Speaker 2: for instance, some of those giant stoneheads, several all mac
Speaker 2: monuments also from a re Genere in Guatemala on the
Speaker 2: coast of Guatemala pretty or around the Squint Lab. They
Speaker 2: contain magnetic elements which give the stone a particular magnetism,
Speaker 2: and it has been shown that the way the stone
Speaker 2: was carved that was in order to amplify certain magnetic
Speaker 2: anomalies that may have been naturally occurring within the stone.
Speaker 2: So I do think this is a fascinating liny research.
Speaker 2: It will be extremely interesting to understand whether those stone
Speaker 2: slabs are so beautiful, is so perfectly carved with these
Speaker 2: geometric shapes, where you have invertity shapes, you have rectangles,
Speaker 2: you have different frames, we're also associated perhaps with some
Speaker 2: magnetic anomalies or some specific properties of the stone.
Speaker 1: I believe that our ancestors were very sensitive to geomagnetic
Speaker 1: fluctuations in stone work as well as emanations from the Earth.
Speaker 1: In the San Miguel work that you've done. Do any
Speaker 1: of the locals that are living around there, or any
Speaker 1: of the people on your team have a sensitivity or
Speaker 1: have noticed a sensitivity to any of the ruins.
Speaker 2: Well, not really, not as much about the site itself.
Speaker 2: The thing is that the site is so old, so
Speaker 2: ancient that even the local people they have no traditions
Speaker 2: about that or about it's its origins. Really like these
Speaker 2: are huge stone slabs or a mystery even to the
Speaker 2: local people, like they've never seen it. They do not
Speaker 2: belong within the local artistic culture or traditions so that
Speaker 2: you find in the area. So it's really a total
Speaker 2: enigma where they may have come from. I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: there was really any unexplained phenomena or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but you definitely feel a very strong energy plieve in
Speaker 2: the area of a canyon that is located very close
Speaker 2: to the site. There are many legends there that talk
Speaker 2: about the tunnels caves they are dug in the walls
Speaker 2: of these canyon. It's a very deep canyon which I
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to explore at least in part last year.
Speaker 2: There was a pretty extensive exploration along several miles of
Speaker 2: these canyon. It's all built of huge basalt prisms, So
Speaker 2: these are essentially huge columnar basalt formations, and obviously you
Speaker 2: know basalt, it's also magnetic stone that can create different
Speaker 2: different effects, like even in some cases it's been documented
Speaker 2: a great alter red states of consciousness exactly. So to
Speaker 2: be inside like a canyon is all made of basalt
Speaker 2: and where people believe there are like caves or tunnels.
Speaker 2: I think it's a very energetic, energetic spot and we
Speaker 2: definitely plan on going back if there is any truth
Speaker 2: to these legends that speak about hidden tunnels and keys
Speaker 2: in the size of the canyon.
Speaker 1: Before we leave San Miguel. Have there been any sculptural
Speaker 1: reliefs of humanistic quality or figurines that might represent the
Speaker 1: earliest people there? And do you see them as a
Speaker 1: connection perhaps of Twanaku Tin and Aku's sculptures are very
Speaker 1: they have a very flat headwear and they're very elongated
Speaker 1: and square. Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Can you can you hear me? Cliff?
Speaker 1: Did you hear that connection?
Speaker 2: The connection was yeah, I was just just breaking up.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: So there are some anthropomorphig representations that are mostly in
Speaker 2: the form of sculptures with cross arms. They look almost
Speaker 2: like Egyptian mummies interestionally, and several of these artifacts have
Speaker 2: been found around some Megaelic staff, but they probably belonged
Speaker 2: to a later period of occupation of the site. The
Speaker 2: earliest occupational layers they appear to have been mostly geometric.
Speaker 2: That's where you find these geometric slabs that are carved
Speaker 2: in inverted shapes, square rectangles. It's a very geometric art,
Speaker 2: very much like ti Wanaco for instance, which I think
Speaker 2: again is one of the most distinctive traits of these
Speaker 2: early megalithic sites that you find around the world. If
Speaker 2: you think about sites like Tijuanaco for instance, the megalithic
Speaker 2: temples in Giza, the Usian in a video. So what
Speaker 2: you find is there is purely megalithic monolithic architecture. There
Speaker 2: are no human or animal or other representations. Really, it's
Speaker 2: like very plain architecture, very geometric. And this is also
Speaker 2: what you find Samieli stap And so now we do
Speaker 2: not expect to find a lot of anthropomorphic representations at
Speaker 2: the site, but yes, we do hope up to uncover
Speaker 2: some tombs. Unfortunately, even the tomba I was mentioning that
Speaker 2: may day to fifteen hundred BC yielded only fragments of bones,
Speaker 2: obviously because of the Great Age, so no complete skeletons.
Speaker 2: But you do have evidence, if not from some mealic
Speaker 2: sup step and itself from some nearby sides, of the
Speaker 2: practice of cranial deformation is shown at many sites in
Speaker 2: the Valley of Mexico, at Latilico, for instance, among the
Speaker 2: Old Mexico all these people that practice some form of
Speaker 2: cranial deformation to alter the shape of the skull in
Speaker 2: a way as to other to conform to some canon
Speaker 2: of view, or as many researchers also suggest, so they
Speaker 2: would look more like their gods.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this example the location is fascinating. I can see
Speaker 1: and hear in your voice that you want to get
Speaker 1: back there soon as possible and do more research. We
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of time to continue with that one.
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about Mitla wahaka Uh. And
Speaker 1: this video that you did is the various kings and
Speaker 1: what did you discover? You you are worth this in
Speaker 1: a team and you're doing some significant work. Give us
Speaker 1: an update on what has been going on there.
Speaker 2: So we have already conducted the shoe research seasons at
Speaker 2: Mitla with another one which is going to happen later
Speaker 2: this year or in the Mount of August at the
Speaker 2: nearby site called the Land Delvaim. And what has been
Speaker 2: uncovering the first two seasons using geophysical equipment is a
Speaker 2: whole underground network of subterranean chimbers and tunnels deep beneath
Speaker 2: the site. We use a combination of three different non
Speaker 2: invasive geophysical methods which include the ground penetrating radar, electrical
Speaker 2: resissivity tomography and seismic noise tomography to map the underground
Speaker 2: what lies beneath the site of Mitla, which is a
Speaker 2: fascinating site. If you've never been to Mitla, it's one
Speaker 2: of the most megalithic sites in all of Mexico. You
Speaker 2: have a huge stone blocks, some of which are over
Speaker 2: seven meters long, the way over fifty tons, and that
Speaker 2: continues under the ground. You have several perfectly built as
Speaker 2: stone chambers underground, the built with huge megalithic stone blocks.
Speaker 2: And now what this new research has revealed is that
Speaker 2: these chambers, these tunnels, they continue underneath the entire site.
Speaker 2: It's part of a huge network of a huge labyrinth
Speaker 2: of subterranean chambers which the ancient zappottext considered to be
Speaker 2: an entrance to the underworld. There are accounts from the
Speaker 2: early colonial period. They speak about the tombs of the
Speaker 2: Zappotech kings as located within a subterranean labyrinth underneath the site,
Speaker 2: which was sealed off by Spanish prests and the missionaries
Speaker 2: in the early colonial period, and these accounts suggested the
Speaker 2: entrance may be found underneath the main church of Mitla,
Speaker 2: which is exactly where our geophysical survey shows that a
Speaker 2: very large subsurfaced subterranean anomaly exists which extends down to
Speaker 2: a depth of at least eighteen meters or all most
Speaker 2: fifty feet below grounded. That's as far as our instrumentation
Speaker 2: could penetrate, but that then branches out right four hundreds
Speaker 2: of meters maybe even more across the entire side.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 1: our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
Speaker 1: with my guest today, Marco Vigato, coming to us directly
Speaker 1: from Mexico City, Mexico.
Speaker 3: We'll rejoin you shortly, Okay. The program features Marco Vigato,
Speaker 3: a research investigator and author of the Empires of Atlantis,
Speaker 3: the origins of ancient civilizations and mystery traditions throughout the ages,
Speaker 3: and Marco is coming to us from Mexico City. Now
Speaker 3: you have identified five groups of structures in Meetla and
Speaker 3: this wonderful video. By the way, those of you listening,
Speaker 3: I'm going to make this video both videos available on
Speaker 3: Earth Ancients A Group an International as well as my
Speaker 3: personal site because they're excellent, very well done. But this
Speaker 3: geomagnetic resistance scanning that you're doing is turning up not
Speaker 3: only the posits, but it looks like an underground canal
Speaker 3: system of some kind.
Speaker 1: Talk about that.
Speaker 2: There are definitely several different tunnels, chambers that all appear
Speaker 2: to be interconnected. So the research was conducted at five
Speaker 2: of the main group of structures that make up of
Speaker 2: the ancient side. Started off in twenty twenty two, just
Speaker 2: focusing on the church group and the columns group, but
Speaker 2: then we expanded twenty twenty three the research perimeter to
Speaker 2: include some of the other groups of structure and what
Speaker 2: we found was again very similar, with several subterranean chambers
Speaker 2: tunnels that appear to form part of an interconnected system.
Speaker 2: It's almost as if it were all subterranean city underneath
Speaker 2: the site, potentially containing and including several different layers, several
Speaker 2: different levels, and lightly connecting to some natural key system
Speaker 2: that makes tend for miles under the area. So that's
Speaker 2: what I find the passing eating. Now, all these chambers
Speaker 2: have been they have been sealed off since at least
Speaker 2: the colonial period, so nobody has been in there in
Speaker 2: at least five hundred years. The next stage of the
Speaker 2: project will likely involve a drilling down into some of
Speaker 2: these chambers in order to insert a camera or a
Speaker 2: photographic problem, maybe even a laser scanner, in order to
Speaker 2: understand the size, orientation, and the potential contents of these
Speaker 2: subterranean chambers before a larger scale excavation can be attempted.
Speaker 2: The reason why I mentioned those techniques like drilling or
Speaker 2: boring down into those chambers is that they're located a
Speaker 2: very great depth, in some cases up to fifteen eighteen meters.
Speaker 2: We're talking about forty five or fifty feet below on
Speaker 2: the truly hard rock. This is not in the ground,
Speaker 2: this is in the bedrock. So that's the reason why
Speaker 2: we need to drill down to see what may lie
Speaker 2: below the site.
Speaker 1: In the video you present among who's there, and he's
Speaker 1: writing the history of the area. I want you to
Speaker 1: talk if you care a little bit about that and
Speaker 1: what he identifies as a labyrinth, which I think is
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating.
Speaker 2: So we found these ancient documents in the library of
Speaker 2: the Inquisition in Wahaka. The monk you're referring to was
Speaker 2: Father Francisco de Burgau, was one of the most famous
Speaker 2: historians of the Dominican Order and the Inquisitor General of
Speaker 2: Wahaka in the sixteen hundred. So he wrote a very
Speaker 2: important book called the Geographica Description, which only serve lives
Speaker 2: in manuscript form, in which he gives a full account
Speaker 2: of the discovery of the subterranean chambers of Mitla. When
Speaker 2: the first Spanish missionaries arrived in Mitla, according to Father Burgo,
Speaker 2: they founded the entrance to a subterranean temple, what is
Speaker 2: described as a crit located underneath the main Zapotec temple
Speaker 2: of Mitla, and there Burgo speaks of four interconnected chambers,
Speaker 2: the first one which served as a shrine for the
Speaker 2: idols for the Zappotech gods, the second one, which was
Speaker 2: the tomb of the high priests, the third one, which
Speaker 2: was the tombs of the kings of the Zapputland. It
Speaker 2: was the name of the Zapotec province at the time,
Speaker 2: and Burgo describes the mummies of these kings that were
Speaker 2: laid to rest in the huge subterranean chambers covered in gold,
Speaker 2: with their battle instruments, the weapons shields, a huge quantity
Speaker 2: of offerings, and then the fourth chamber, which was, according
Speaker 2: to Borgo, a sort of each way to Hell. There
Speaker 2: was a chamber which contained a colossal altar which could
Speaker 2: be moved, and underneath the altar was the entrance to
Speaker 2: a massive subterranean library, which is what Burgoa calls leo Ba,
Speaker 2: which is a Zapotech world, which means underworld. This is
Speaker 2: what the Zapotexts believed. There was a genuine entrance into
Speaker 2: the underworld. And from Burgo's description you can tell at
Speaker 2: times that he may be talking about some natural cavern
Speaker 2: because it describes these vast cavernosa space that according to him,
Speaker 2: extended for many, many miles in all directions. But then
Speaker 2: there are some elements in his description that suggests that
Speaker 2: this could have been maybe an artificially modified cave, because
Speaker 2: it talks about colossal pillars that were supporting the roof.
Speaker 2: It talks about the passages branching out a regular distances,
Speaker 2: like the streets of a city. That's the expression. He
Speaker 2: uses this massive corridor with numerous side passages, so there
Speaker 2: are elements in Burgos description almost suggests that this space
Speaker 2: may have been artificial or at least an artificially modified cover.
Speaker 2: The extended potentially for miles underneath the side, which in
Speaker 2: my view points to with is potentially a much earlier
Speaker 2: layer of construction. So you may have had these huge
Speaker 2: underground the city underneath Mitla, which the Zapotex later discovered
Speaker 2: that the used part of it as a burial site
Speaker 2: for their kings, for their prison, and then they built
Speaker 2: these massive megalithic structures and temples and doubts. There are
Speaker 2: many different layers to it that could go back to
Speaker 2: the end of the last Ice Age. That's the most
Speaker 2: fascinating part of these whole research to me. There is
Speaker 2: evidence at middle of human occupation dating back almost ten
Speaker 2: thousand years to eight thousand BC, and Midla is one
Speaker 2: of those very interesting places around the world, very much
Speaker 2: like Quebec Tepe where you have evidence of megalithic architecture
Speaker 2: and the first evidence of crop domestication and agriculture. We
Speaker 2: know that Mitla was the place in all of meso
Speaker 2: America where many different types of crops, including gores, including
Speaker 2: corn possibly were first domesticated. So you have these strange association,
Speaker 2: very much like Gobeckly Tape and many other megalithic sites
Speaker 2: around the world, between megalitic architecture, early prop domestication, the
Speaker 2: birth of agriculture in layers that may go back that
Speaker 2: may date back to the end of the last Ice Age.
Speaker 2: That's why I think Mitla can be an extremely fascinating
Speaker 2: site and what we may and cover the deep from
Speaker 2: these subterranean chambers at Mitla has the potential quite literally
Speaker 2: rewriting the history of meso America.
Speaker 1: It's very exciting what you present. You have some of
Speaker 1: it in your book. With the videos are just fascinating
Speaker 1: simply because you're finding all these voids and pockets and
Speaker 1: tunnels underneath these buildings. One of the questions I had
Speaker 1: when I was watching the video is if you know
Speaker 1: that the priests were covering these entrances up, can't you
Speaker 1: just find the entrances that they covered and this opened
Speaker 1: them up? Or is it too much We know?
Speaker 2: Yes, we know of at least one entrance located under
Speaker 2: the church. It is located under the main outar of
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church of Mitla, and interestingly enough, that entrance
Speaker 2: was allegedly rediscovered in the early nineteen hundreds. Quite sometime
Speaker 2: around nineteen twenty, when the church was radically transformed, a
Speaker 2: new floor was laid inside the church, a new altar
Speaker 2: was constructed. That's when, allegedly, according to many of the
Speaker 2: local people, the entrance was rediscovered, which remained open for many,
Speaker 2: many years. There's people still living in Mitla today who
Speaker 2: remember having gone down into those subterranean tunnels underneath the
Speaker 2: church until the entrance was again sealed sometime during the
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties. So we're not talking about a long time ago.
Speaker 2: This ent and remained open for many, many decades. There
Speaker 2: are many people living in Midleft today who tell stories
Speaker 2: about having been inside those Megali subterranean chambers that were
Speaker 2: later sealed off. The reason why they were sealed off
Speaker 2: is a twofold. On the one hand, people apparently got
Speaker 2: lost in those subterranean labyrinths. In order to protect and
Speaker 2: to prevent people from getting lost while searching for treasure underground,
Speaker 2: they sealed off the entrance. And there is also a
Speaker 2: second reason has to do mostly with the local Catholic
Speaker 2: church wanting in a way to prevent what they see
Speaker 2: as a resurgence of those like pre Hispanic beliefs.
Speaker 1: Let me just stop you from it. So you're saying
Speaker 1: indigenous worship of idols is anti Catholic, and this is
Speaker 1: the big problem. This is the crown with Mexico as
Speaker 1: all is right. Any thought of indigenous religion, if that's
Speaker 1: not what if we want to call it or spirituality,
Speaker 1: is very offensive to the Church.
Speaker 2: So I can totally imagine some prey fanatic local prices
Speaker 2: sometimes in the nineteen eighties are just deciding to see
Speaker 2: off those entrances as a way of preventing the steel
Speaker 2: like indigenous people still attached to the traditional rituals from
Speaker 2: performing their own traditional rites. Just something very much alive
Speaker 2: in Midler today. You will find that many places in
Speaker 2: the ancient ruins offerings of candles of incense. People still
Speaker 2: lay offerings to the ruins today. And obviously the idea
Speaker 2: that the most sacred temple of the Zapputex where their
Speaker 2: ancestors or high prists, their kings were buried, still exists
Speaker 2: under the church, makes it a very powerful place for
Speaker 2: the local people where they would go and lay offering.
Speaker 2: So I can't understand why the Catholic Church, particularly in
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties in the early nineteen nineties, would want
Speaker 2: to suppress all that and completely seal off those entrances
Speaker 2: and severe that connection of the local people with their
Speaker 2: Prehispan traditions.
Speaker 1: But wouldn't in a be able to go to the
Speaker 1: church and say, look, we know that in the main
Speaker 1: part of the church we have this entrance way. We
Speaker 1: would like to do research and open that up so
Speaker 1: that people can get down there, so that you have
Speaker 1: a history of these earlier civilizations. Or is it just
Speaker 1: too hard for the church to accept that.
Speaker 2: This was attempted? And it will tell you a funny story.
Speaker 2: It will not name the archaeologists who was involved, but
Speaker 2: she is the very famous archaeologist, the very active in
Speaker 2: the Wahaka region, and she was at the time deep
Speaker 2: overseer for the site of Mitlab. So when once again
Speaker 2: in the nineteen nineties, I had not mistaken additional works
Speaker 2: were conducted inside the church, she was obviously familiar with
Speaker 2: these rumor it's about a secret entrance under the church,
Speaker 2: and she went to see what they had found. According
Speaker 2: to what she told me, she saw the entrance, which
Speaker 2: at the time was still uncovered under the outar. But
Speaker 2: the local people, particularly the local priesthood, they absolutely prevented
Speaker 2: her from going inside. She had to barricade herself inside
Speaker 2: the church because she was attacked by a mob. They
Speaker 2: ran the belts of the church to call the entire town,
Speaker 2: claiming that those archeologists had come. They wanted to steal
Speaker 2: the mummies or their accessors. They wanted to penetrate into
Speaker 2: the sanctuary, and she had to be rescued after three
Speaker 2: days by the police.
Speaker 1: Three days. Oh my god, did she ever? I guess
Speaker 1: she didn't get underground.
Speaker 2: She never came back. She never came back.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So Midla, so you talk about religious fanaticism.
Speaker 1: That sounds just like that. As we conclude, Marco, what
Speaker 1: is the next phase of the MITLA research that you're doing.
Speaker 1: Talk about what you're up to well and what you
Speaker 1: hope to gain in this part two.
Speaker 2: Well, we're now working on the permits, on the authorization
Speaker 2: for conducting some initial drilling into those subterranean chambers, but
Speaker 2: those permits will still take some time. We're currently analyzing
Speaker 2: different technical solutions as to how we may be able
Speaker 2: to drill down to the death of fifteen eighteen meters,
Speaker 2: so fifty sixty feet below the ground, so that may
Speaker 2: still take one time. I'm hopefully they will be able
Speaker 2: to conduct the first grilling or the first probes potentially
Speaker 2: next year in twenty twenty six. For the time being,
Speaker 2: we're opening up a new research from at the nearby
Speaker 2: site called Teticland del Valley, which is a very fascinating
Speaker 2: zapotech site. It's located only a few kilometers from Mitla.
Speaker 2: There are rumors and traditions of tunnels connecting Tilted Land
Speaker 2: to Mitla, so part of the same subterranean network. And
Speaker 2: it's very clear if you go to Teltic Land that
Speaker 2: the main church of the site was built on top
Speaker 2: of very extensive zappo. The ruins. There are some huge
Speaker 2: megathic stone blocks beautifully carved with geometo shapes. You may
Speaker 2: you may see some of those in the video that
Speaker 2: I posted, where you can see very similar stonework to
Speaker 2: what you find in Mitla, for instance, but all of
Speaker 2: that has been reused in the local church and in
Speaker 2: many buildings throughout the center of the modern town of
Speaker 2: tiltic Land. There is also a small portion of what
Speaker 2: looks like a pre Hispanic platform, very similar to the
Speaker 2: platform upon which the palaces of Mitla were built. So
Speaker 2: all these tells us that tetic Land was very important
Speaker 2: the ancient Zapoteca ceremonial center very much like Mitla, but
Speaker 2: it's completely unexplored. So the idea is to use the
Speaker 2: same kind of geophysical methods to probe deeper under the
Speaker 2: ground and see if those rumors about subterranean tunnels and
Speaker 2: tombs in deetic Land are true, whether there may be
Speaker 2: a connection also with the underworld of Mitla, and in general,
Speaker 2: to create a map of the ancient the pre Hispanic
Speaker 2: site of dertic Land. Something that ensure you are find
Speaker 2: fascinating is the name of the place itself. Delticland literally
Speaker 2: means the city of the Gods, so that's a pretty
Speaker 2: fascinating name for a pre Hispanic site, and that suggests
Speaker 2: that the site itself may have had a much greater
Speaker 2: importance in Prespanic times than the small village of Deltyland
Speaker 2: has today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a remarkable discovery, Marco, and I can see
Speaker 1: why you're energized by it. I would and I'm just
Speaker 1: completely just throwing this out to you. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know you guys must have one or two sites
Speaker 1: that you would like to earmark for excavation. I would
Speaker 1: think perhaps one of these areas that the priests covered,
Speaker 1: which is maybe adobe, which would be easier than going
Speaker 1: through solid rock, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So well, we're hopeful that more entrances can be found.
Speaker 2: Clearly the entrance under the church was not the only
Speaker 2: entrance to these subterranean tunnel system and so we're hopeful.
Speaker 2: And to your point, we have at least a couple
Speaker 2: of target locations that could be potential blockedoff entrances in
Speaker 2: other parts of the site, so this will be prime
Speaker 2: targets for future research and future excavations.
Speaker 1: Excellent, Okay, Well we're at the end of our program.
Speaker 1: This is fascinating, wonderful work. Marco. Talk about ARX project
Speaker 1: and you're always looking for support. Talk about what people
Speaker 1: can do to be supportive of your research and a
Speaker 1: part of this megalithic discovery.
Speaker 2: Well, the Arts Project is a private, nonprofit research foundation,
Speaker 2: so we rely entirely on private donors and funding in
Speaker 2: order to support our work research at different sites across Mexico,
Speaker 2: at some Meelic staff and at MITLA now at Deticla
Speaker 2: del Valdie, we've been able to raise up several thousands,
Speaker 2: several tens of thousands of dollars over the past few years,
Speaker 2: through several hundreds of dollars in Mexico, in the US
Speaker 2: and abroad. We have generously contributed so that this research
Speaker 2: could continue and even now for this new phase of
Speaker 2: research in Totitlan del Vadier and in Middla, we're actively
Speaker 2: looking for sponsorships. So if you are anyone who is listening,
Speaker 2: I can chep in. I invite you to support our research.
Speaker 2: We have set up a go fund Me page. You
Speaker 2: can also donate through Patreon through paopal to support this research.
Speaker 2: This is important so that all of our research fundlings
Speaker 2: can remain public. A big part of what we do
Speaker 2: when the mission of the ARCS Foundation is making sure
Speaker 2: that everything that we find, everything that is discovered, can
Speaker 2: be published, that it can be communicated, because that's what
Speaker 2: happens very often with this kind of research, it just
Speaker 2: gets buried. Findings are never published I'm not necessarily calling
Speaker 2: its censorship, but you do find with many of these
Speaker 2: projects you do not hear about the findings for many,
Speaker 2: many years, maybe never. In our case, it's a big
Speaker 2: part of our mission to make sure that we publish
Speaker 2: these results that are made available to the journal public,
Speaker 2: because we think this is important knowledge into the origins
Speaker 2: of humanity. So that by supporting us, you're also supporting
Speaker 2: a view, a vision of research in which these findings
Speaker 2: are shared broadly with the public, with the community, and
Speaker 2: everybody has access to these finding to this research, which
Speaker 2: is potentially so transformation to our understanding of the issue.
Speaker 1: Bust give us the website and how people can actually donate.
Speaker 1: I guess you go to tell tell us what the
Speaker 1: website is. What's the A.
Speaker 2: So the website is a as in a rxproject dot orgon.
Speaker 2: We've also set up a go fund Me PAJA. We
Speaker 2: have a Facebook paga as well. We have a Patreon
Speaker 2: paga where you can go to but just searching for
Speaker 2: a RX project. We have a YouTube channel so you
Speaker 2: can donate. You can support us in many many different ways.
Speaker 1: And have other than the videos. Marco, is there anything
Speaker 1: that's been published by your research team.
Speaker 2: Yes, there have been several academic articles that have been published,
Speaker 2: one just recently a couple of months ago in Archaeological Perspection,
Speaker 2: which is one of the main academic journals. They deal
Speaker 2: with the use of geophysical methods in archaeology. There was
Speaker 2: a conference last year in New Orleans at which many
Speaker 2: of the findings from the first two seasons of the
Speaker 2: MIDLA project were presented, and many other articles also in
Speaker 2: the international press. We had very good coverage from the
Speaker 2: New York Times, Smithsonian Magazine, from a National Geographic as well,
Speaker 2: So the news of our discoveries at MITLER had received
Speaker 2: pretty broad coverage in the international press. And obviously we
Speaker 2: have at least two more academic articles that are currently
Speaker 2: in the peer review product process and will hopefully be
Speaker 2: published soon. Also, all of our sponsors, all of our
Speaker 2: supporters have access and we've given them access to the
Speaker 2: full research report, which is an almost six hundred pages
Speaker 2: document that contains the original data from the research fundly
Speaker 2: from the research findings, which is again like part of
Speaker 2: our effort to make all of these data, all of
Speaker 2: these research results available to the public.
Speaker 1: I imagine National Geographic doing a TV special on tunnels if
Speaker 1: you break down and get into one of those chambers,
Speaker 1: they're gonna want to be there.
Speaker 2: You know, hopefully, So that'd be fantastic.
Speaker 1: So hey, Marco, always intriguing and funded to be speaking
Speaker 1: with you. For those of you listening, Marco is also
Speaker 1: the author of the Empire of Atlantis. It's a great book.
Speaker 1: Came out a couple of years ago, and he mentioned
Speaker 1: to me he's coming up with another book. So fantastic,
Speaker 1: great research. And thanks for the update Marco and continued success.
Speaker 2: Thank you, so my always a pleasure.
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Speaker 1: Megolithic location, and some of the stonework just outrageous, amazing.
Speaker 1: Also look for two videos. You're gonna have to find
Speaker 1: them on Earth Ancients Facebook page. Go to Facebook, go
Speaker 1: to Earth Ancients and there's two locations. One is the
Speaker 1: group page and this is also an international page that
Speaker 1: has a big audience. There's I think they are both
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes. But you know, look at the closeups
Speaker 1: of the stone work. It's very unusual, very very advanced.
Speaker 1: You think it would be cut with stone tools, you know,
Speaker 1: poorly rendered, but it's been cut, sanded and then almost polished.
Speaker 1: Very unusual. So you can see those again on Earth
Speaker 1: Ancients Facebook, go to the group or the international page.
Speaker 1: And I mean, anything that Marco's bringing out right now
Speaker 1: and posting is something to consider. His arxproject dot org
Speaker 1: org is also something you should check out. If you
Speaker 1: use that web address, you can see the very beginning
Speaker 1: of his work at Mintla and some of these older
Speaker 1: sites that are in Central Mexico. If you're joint Earth
Speaker 1: Ancient's Destiny or Earth Ancients Special Edition in the archives.
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Speaker 1: and when I think my guest today, Mark go Vigato,
Speaker 1: coming to us from Mexico City. As always, the team
Speaker 1: of Guilteur, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen.
Speaker 1: You guys rock, you really do, all right, Take care
Speaker 1: of you well and we will talk to you next time.
Speaker 1: All att