WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.320 You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from 2 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:13.919 KFI AM six forty. 3 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.880 AM six forty. I'm Mo Kelly. We're live everywhere on 4 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:16.879 the iHeartRadio app. And joining me right now on the 5 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:20.039 line as we talk about not only the issues of 6 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:23.920 Los Angeles but the legalities which are being argued in 7 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.839 federal court right now is Loyal Law Professor Jessica Levinson, 8 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:31.320 friend of the show, personal friend, Professor Levinson, How are. 9 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:31.760 You this evening. 10 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:34.039 I'm so happy to be here with you. 11 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:37.280 Thank you for coming on under short notice. You know this, 12 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:39.159 but let me just set this up for the audience. 13 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:43.359 Earlier this afternoon, California Attorney General Rob Bonta filed and 14 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:47.479 the emergency motion asking for a temporary restraining order quote, 15 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:50.520 which will prevent the use of federalized National Guard and 16 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:54.520 active duty Marines for law enforcement purposes on the streets 17 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:57.359 of a civilian city. The motion does not seek to 18 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.240 prevent any of those forces from protecting the saale, the 19 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.920 federal buildings, and other real property owned or least by 20 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.719 the federal government or federal personnel on such property. Close quote, 21 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.879 Professor Levinson, give us some sense of what this is about. 22 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:14.920 And what does that stake with this lawsuit. 23 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.400 Okay, because you're one of the smartest people I know, 24 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.159 let's really get into it here. As we know, over 25 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.599 the weekend, the President issued an executive order and he said, 26 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.560 let's federalize the National Guard, and he did so under 27 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:33.159 a part of federal law that I'm going to refer 28 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:37.480 to as Title ten. And Title ten, in my view, 29 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.079 does give the president the power to say, I'm going 30 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.879 to call in the National Guard, even if it's against 31 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.280 the wishes of the governor, but only for limited circumstances, 32 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:52.599 only for support, only to help protect federal agents or 33 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:57.879 to protect federal property. If you want the National Guard 34 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.719 to do more than and you have to invoke, in 35 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.280 my view, something called the Insurrection Act. And that's because 36 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:09.039 the Insurrection Act, a different part of federal law, would 37 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:14.039 suspend pose comatatis, the Posse Commatatas Act. That's the act 38 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:20.360 that says members of the military cannot directly enforce domestic law. 39 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:25.840 You cannot have marines executing search warrants and executing arrest warrants. 40 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.719 And so I think what the Attorney General is saying 41 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:31.360 here is a number of things. But the part that 42 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.919 you read to me, mo is, national Guard, stay in 43 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.879 your lane. You can only under the Presidence Directive Act 44 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.759 in a support capacity. 45 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:44.919 I'm not the legal expert or the constitutional law professor 46 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:48.319 you are, But on its face, I'm reminded that at 47 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:51.960 least as far as federalizing the National Guard without the 48 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.800 consent or approval of the governor, there is precedent for that, 49 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.840 going back to Lyndon Baines Johnson in nineteen sixty five 50 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.800 and what was going on with civil rights during that time. 51 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:05.960 But it's slightly different or is it the same here? 52 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:09.919 So it's slightly different. You're exactly right, like that is 53 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.319 the historic precedent, right, That's what we point to when 54 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.599 people say, but how can it be that a president 55 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:19.919 can call in the National Guard and he can do 56 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.560 so over the wishes, desires, hope's dreams of a governor, 57 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:28.800 And we point to lbj or Ike where they were 58 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:36.960 sending in the National Guard over the over the displeasure 59 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.800 of segregationist governors who said, no, I don't want to 60 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.360 enforce these desegregation orders. Now this is somewhat different because 61 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:48.639 we are talking about a different federal statute. We're instead 62 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:53.240 talking about Section twelve four oh six, not the Insurrection Act, 63 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:58.360 but in my view, the same kind of structural concerns hold, 64 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.439 which is, you don't have a federal law that grants 65 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.360 the president power on the one hand, but then would 66 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:07.280 allow a single governor to veto that power and take 67 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:07.759 it away. 68 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.599 I don't know how quickly the courts would move on this. 69 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.960 Is there any real likelihood that Governor Newsom would prevail 70 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.040 with some sort of stay or an injunction or what 71 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:20.360 is the likely outcome? 72 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:21.439 From where you sit. 73 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:26.160 So I tend to think no. What's really interesting I 74 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.920 know this will interest you MO as a scholar, is 75 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.439 that the judge here is the brother of retired Supreme 76 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:33.959 Court Justice Stephen Bryer. 77 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.319 I was wondering if there was any relationship because I 78 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.680 heard Briar as I wondered, okay, go ahead. 79 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.759 It's two brothers on a federal bench. And this is 80 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.879 a judge who was appointed by President Clint steeped in 81 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.319 the law has been a judge for decades. My analysis 82 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.120 is that again, the two big hurdles here for California 83 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.800 would be proving that the president doesn't have the power 84 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.040 to to say I think we're in danger of a rebellion, 85 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.000 and that the flip side of that is that federal 86 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:08.839 judges do have the power to second guess the president. 87 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.399 You and I know that when it comes to national security, 88 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:16.160 when it comes to issues of safety, federal judges give 89 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.399 a lot of deference to elected officials, to the president. 90 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:24.000 And then I think it's hard for California to try 91 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.879 and prove that the governor has to consent, because that's 92 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:29.839 not how I read the statue. That's not the plane 93 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:32.759 language of the statue. In my view, really smart people 94 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:33.480 disagree with me. 95 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.920 You use words like deference and the phrase Insurrection Act. 96 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:41.120 Does that also apply if we were to move further 97 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.120 down this road and there's a wider conflagration. Let's say 98 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.040 there are protests which happen in New York or Dallas, 99 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.800 and there are a number of cities. How much difference 100 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.360 historically or maybe presently would be given to the president 101 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:58.199 if President Trump were to then invote the Insurrection Act? 102 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.399 What how level? What's what's the height of the bar here? 103 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.720 Oh my gosh, you asked me the question that I 104 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.639 actually haven't gotten in the last what it is forty 105 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.399 eight seventy two hours? And so no, it's a great question. 106 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:16.040 So I will tell you not confidentially, because I know 107 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:19.759 we're on the air that I've been having discussions about 108 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:23.120 what will the standard be right when it comes to 109 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.160 we're looking at a president and you know you didn't 110 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.120 get let me get away with as you should. And 111 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:30.120 I use kind of general language, and I said, I 112 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:34.360 think federal judges will be wary. But what does that mean? 113 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:38.240 I mean, does it mean that it's just there's no 114 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.120 judicial review at all, that it's viewed as something called 115 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.519 a political question where federal judges can even be there. 116 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.199 I don't think so. Does it mean that there's a 117 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:52.279 very low standard, something like clear aerror, like there's no 118 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.959 rational basis for the president to conclude that this is 119 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.759 a rebellion? Maybe it's a really low star like that. 120 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:06.399 I think the answer is that under this particular federal statute, 121 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.839 we don't have a lot of case law to indicate 122 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:12.319 what the standard is. When it comes to the Insurrection Act, 123 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.560 we would ask similar but different questions, because that is 124 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.160 a pretty significant escalation. 125 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.279 My time is running short with you, Professor Levinson a 126 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.560 Loyola Law School, but I have to ask you this, 127 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:24.680 and it's a dark question. I want to preface it, 128 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.199 because I think we're in a dark period in American 129 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.959 history looking at what we've been through in the past. 130 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.680 But if we should proceed down this track and the 131 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.560 Insurrection Act is invoked, how much daylight is there between 132 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.959 the Insurrection Act and martial law? Is there a lot 133 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.319 in between or is it a small step? 134 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:50.720 So in my view, the Insurrection Act would be a 135 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.839 significant step towards martial law. I don't think it gets 136 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:59.920 us there, but I think there is a big deal 137 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:04.560 between where we are today with Title ten and where 138 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.879 we would be under the Insurrection Act. There's a big 139 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:09.439 difference between seeing the National Guard in your city but 140 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.199 knowing that really all they're there to do is to 141 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:16.519 protect a federal building or to provide logistical support for 142 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:24.040 a federal agent, and seeing a marine go into offices, 143 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:28.000 go into places of employment, and start arresting people, for instance. 144 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:32.279 So I will say I think there are a few 145 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:38.759 big gulfs. You're right, there's a dark question, and I 146 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:40.919 don't know the answer. All we can look at is 147 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.960 public statements that the President can make has made, and 148 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:45.559 try and figure out where we're going. 149 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.759 I honestly don't know where the hell we're going, Professor Levinson, 150 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.080 I hope we don't go to that dark place, but 151 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.559 we'll have to see what the future holds in the 152 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.679 short term and long term. My guest has been Loyola 153 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.519 Law Professor Jessica Levinson. You've heard around that show any 154 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.440 number of times. I appreciate you and all your expertise, 155 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.600 Professor Levinson. Hopefully we get to talk again soon. 156 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:07.159 I would love that. Thank you. 157 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.919 Have a great evening. It's KFI AM six forty. I'm 158 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:12.799 Mo Kelly. We'll have more in just a moment. 159 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:17.039 You're listening to later with Mo Kelly on demand from 160 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:18.440 KFI AM six. 161 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:24.600 Forty KFI AM sixty Kelly here. We're live everywhere on 162 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.080 the iHeartRadio app and YouTube. And the word that keeps 163 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:35.480 getting thrown around protests protesters. I if you don't know, 164 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.120 I am a serious student of the civil rights movement, 165 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:47.039 understanding why it worked, the strategy employed in advance of protests, 166 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:51.399 and some of the thoughts and considerations made. Did you 167 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:55.679 know the whole idea of nonviolence did not come from 168 00:09:55.720 --> 00:10:01.559 doctor King. It came from Koretis got King. His wife, 169 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.879 Doctor Martin Luther King Junior used to carry a gun. 170 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:08.559 At all times. 171 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.799 And part of the reason he stopped carrying the gun 172 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:16.799 was Kreta Scott King said, you can't do that while 173 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:21.559 also espousing nonviolence. Now, doctor King was of the mind like, look, 174 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:25.600 if if we're going to be attacked, I need to 175 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:31.440 protect myself. But Coreta Scott King understood, understood this was 176 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:36.480 about the optics and retaining the moral authority in the 177 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.440 face of what was going to be shown in the media. 178 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.960 That's how prescient she was back in the nineteen fifties 179 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:48.799 and nineteen sixties, understanding that if there were going to 180 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.120 be black marches like in Selma, the video that goes 181 00:10:54.159 --> 00:11:00.519 out can't be black people fighting with white people. Though 182 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:05.720 the idea was not any different of gaining equality civil 183 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.000 rights the Voting Rights Act Civil Rights Act first in 184 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.600 sixty four and the Voting Rights Act in sixty five. 185 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.679 The goal was to show America in a very naked form. 186 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:17.360 The goal was to. 187 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:22.120 Have an organized march and if they were attacked, let 188 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.080 America see that they were not fighting back because the 189 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.759 optics were more important than anything. And those are some 190 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:34.000 of the small lessons that protests since never understood. 191 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.320 We can talk about it with Occupy wall Street. 192 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.279 We can talk about it with BLM, we can talk 193 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:44.559 about it with the pink pea hats, we can talk 194 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:48.279 about it with any number of quote unquote protests. And 195 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.120 to Wallow, I always clown folks because it's always about awareness. 196 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:53.320 No, it's about strategy. 197 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:57.159 It has always been about a strategy and a specific 198 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:02.919 goal which can be articulated and understood. And going back 199 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:05.720 to the Civil Rights movement, everything was about the legislation 200 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:10.000 of first the Civil Rights Act to be able to 201 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:13.159 end segregation. How does that tie into what's going on 202 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:15.759 right now. Well, you heard in my conversation with Professor 203 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.799 Levinson that the last time that a president usurped the 204 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:25.159 power of a governor to invoke the National Guard was 205 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:30.360 in nineteen sixty five to have the National Guard against 206 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:34.639 the wishes of the governor of Alabama, George Wallace, to 207 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:40.159 have the National Guard protect who the protesters. All this 208 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:45.600 ties together and protesters today, and it's not even a 209 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.279 youth thing. It's just a generational thing where either they 210 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.000 feel that the lessons of the civil rights movement prior 211 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.720 to now are antiquated out of dat and there's nothing 212 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.840 that they can learn from them, or the only lesson 213 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.759 that they learned from them is just marching on the freeway. 214 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.960 Now there is and now here's the other side to protests. Historically, 215 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:14.039 protests are to disrupt. When Doctor King was marching, they 216 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:18.960 were not in concert with the law. They were going 217 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:24.600 into neighborhoods they were forbidden to go by law, by segregation. 218 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.399 They were sitting down at lunch counters, they were not 219 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:36.399 allowed to buy law. Disruption has always been part of protests, 220 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.840 and protests will never be at. 221 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:42.559 The discretion of the people who don't like them. 222 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:44.840 You know, I know people were driving on the one 223 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.240 on one freeway says, get out of my way. What 224 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.799 the hell are you doing here? Can't you go protests 225 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.159 in your living room? That's not how it works. And 226 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:59.519 don't confuse civil disobedience with violence. Now, how it does 227 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:03.399 get can is you have protests which are not controlled, 228 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:07.519 wholly controlled, and you have these impromptu protests where people 229 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.000 can just show up and with their own agendas, with 230 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:15.120 their own weapons, with their own designs, and they do whatever, 231 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.639 and rightly or wrongly, it is considered. 232 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:19.039 Well. 233 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:23.279 The protests were not all nonviolent, they were not all peaceful. Yeah, 234 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:24.759 but there are a lot of mother followers out there 235 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.399 who are not part of the protests, and it's impossible 236 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.279 to tell which is which and who is who. Under 237 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:34.919 most circumstances, there's never going to be any perfect protests, never, 238 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.639 because you can't control all the factors of who shows 239 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.279 up to your protests. If if Twalla and me and 240 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.879 everyone in the studio said we're going to go down 241 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.080 and protest at something such a such a and we're 242 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:50.200 going to do it in a public place in front 243 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.720 of this building, and the word gets out, especially in 244 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:59.720 this world of social media, we cannot control who shows up. Now, 245 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.039 maybe more planning needs to go into it so you 246 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:06.039 have a better reign on who has access to that 247 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:08.720 particular area. And that comes down to if you should 248 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:13.480 get like a protest permit for a specific location, and 249 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.080 then you can actually get law enforcement to protect the 250 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.399 protests and keep other people out. You can start controlling 251 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.320 some of the factors surrounding your protests, then you have 252 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.639 a better chance of controlling the optics and the resulting 253 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:29.039 what ends up on the news, because if someone gets arrested, 254 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:33.080 there's no name tax saying I'm with the protests. All 255 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.840 these folks who were hanging out after ten o'clock last night, 256 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.399 and we were talking about it Tuala, people who were 257 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.679 hanging around after the order of dispersal had come down. 258 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.360 They weren't out there protesting, but they're added to the 259 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.080 number of people who were arrested. They were added to 260 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.559 the totality of the violence, the looting, and unfortunately, people, 261 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:58.879 for whatever reasons and political interests, they're going to say, well, 262 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.279 this is not a piece full protests, or this is 263 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.600 a riot, or this is just a violent display. Why 264 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.080 is it they can't all those things will be used 265 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:11.559 against the people who are legitimately protesting. Why am I 266 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.000 bringing this up? It goes back to the civil rights movement. 267 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.000 That's what Kreta Scott King was talking about sixty years ago, 268 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.639 to make sure that the protests, the marches were not 269 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:30.159 coapt co opted by figures and circumstances which would undermine 270 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:36.759 the main message. That was the ideological difference between doctor 271 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.720 King and Malcolm X. Malcolm X says said, why am 272 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.559 I going to be non violent in the face of violence? 273 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.759 You're seeing how they're cracking our skulls on TV. You 274 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.000 see how they're sticking dogs and water hoses on us. 275 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.399 Why would I be nonviolent in the face of that, 276 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:54.720 and doctor King and Kreta Scott King. I don't know 277 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.919 if you know this, but Malcolm X was actually at 278 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:01.279 the March on Washington in nineteen He was actually there. 279 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.440 He just did not speak, but he met with folks 280 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.599 behind closed doors, and he told everyone, including doctor King, 281 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.440 I'm not going to be shown publicly because what the 282 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:16.559 optics of me, Malcolm X, being at the March on 283 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:21.359 Washington would cast a different light on the event. How 284 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.359 you've been talking about this and I show up, it 285 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:29.039 will be turned into that. That's the lesson that people 286 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.640 don't understand. How does that relate to today? And I 287 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.799 was going back and forth with people who I assume 288 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.319 to be Latino Hispanic on social media. I'll take them 289 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.240 at their avatar word. But they were saying, when I 290 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.920 fly a Mexican flag is because of culture, It's about heritage. 291 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.960 And I said, I get that. I get that. You're 292 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:53.680 not talking about Mexico the Mexican flag in terms of nationality. 293 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.079 You're talking about I am a Mexican person. I am 294 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:01.000 a person. I am a person and with a history, 295 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.599 with a heritage, and I'm proud of my Mexican heritage, 296 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.880 and that's separate from wanting to be an American citizen. 297 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.200 And I was trying to tell multiple people, I get that, 298 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.920 I get all that, But you know what, when people 299 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:20.400 are watching the news, maybe with the sound down or 300 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.000 there's a twenty second news bite and they see the flag, 301 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.480 they don't get all that context and they don't care. 302 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:31.839 More importantly, they don't care. What does happen is those 303 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.240 images of the Mexican flags being flown again and in 304 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:41.799 again in these protests, they're used against you. They're used 305 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.799 against the message that you want to have out there. 306 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.559 They're used in a negative way for the optics, which 307 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:55.440 make your protests, if not nullified, unimportant and ineffective. 308 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.559 There are so many lessons. 309 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.000 Which could be learned from the success of the modern 310 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.839 civil rights movement, but most people don't know that. They 311 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.440 just saw doctor King and a bunch of people walking 312 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.759 down the street and they call that marching, and they 313 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.240 call that protesting, and they have no idea of the 314 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.319 underlying strategy which surrounded all that to make sure that 315 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.839 it was successful. If you go back to Rosa Parks, 316 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.079 I know we got to go to break. If you 317 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.359 go back to Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks worked for the NAACP. 318 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.079 She was not even the first person to sit down 319 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.039 and refuse to give up her seat on the bus. 320 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.119 It was Claudette Covin. What But why did you never 321 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.319 hear about Claudette Covin? 322 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:33.720 Why? 323 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.680 Because she was fifteen years old at the time and 324 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:41.559 already pregnant or a young mother. The optics of her 325 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.359 were not going to work for the civil rights movement. 326 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.279 That's why the. 327 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:55.440 Later waited for Rosa Parks, because she was more considered 328 00:19:55.480 --> 00:20:01.319 pristine and unassailable in a media sense. All of this 329 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.839 was intentional. There's a takeaway here. I'm just waiting for 330 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.799 people to figure out that there is. 331 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.480 You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from 332 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.680 KFI AM six forty. 333 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.559 I Am six forty mo Kelly here live everywhere in 334 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:23.599 the iHeartRadio App. I always believe, even though these are 335 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.599 tense moments, there are lessons for us to learn. 336 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.200 There's a lesson for me to learn. 337 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.400 There's a lesson for you listening right now in your car, 338 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.480 or maybe you're listening in your headphones on the iHeartRadio app. 339 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.440 There's a lesson for all of us to learn. Because 340 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.680 history is really cool. When you take time to understand 341 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.160 it and put it in context, it'll give you a 342 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:46.920 lot to draw upon. 343 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.319 When you're in this moment. 344 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:50.759 And if we study this moment the next time we're here, 345 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.640 we will be here again sometime in the future. 346 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.559 Years down the road, we'll have this to reflect upon. 347 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.920 Last segment, I was talking about the civil rights movement 348 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.400 and how we can learn so much from it and 349 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.079 use it to put this moment in greater context. And 350 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:09.039 I was upset in my own way about why people 351 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.680 who are protesting today and other protests don't use what 352 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.599 worked in the civil rights movement and understand why it 353 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:20.720 worked to better affect change, because when I see people 354 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:22.359 who are out in the street, and this is not 355 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.119 just specific to these protests surrounding Ice Rays, this has 356 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.079 to do with all the protests of the past ten 357 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:34.319 to fifteen years. Really, there's really no direction or focus 358 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.880 the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties, and 359 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.000 I do mean fifties because it started in the nineteen fifties. 360 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.880 There was always a legislative goal of ending segregation, which 361 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.160 was the Civil Rights Act, and then ensuring the right 362 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.880 to vote. The voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act 363 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.440 in nineteen sixty four, the Voting Rights Act in nineteen 364 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.400 sixty five. When they had the March on Washington in 365 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:03.240 nineteen sixty three, that was to publicly show President Kennedy 366 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.759 that this is the type of support we have for 367 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.920 civil rights in this country. It was about because there 368 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.200 was supposed to be a sit down in Washington, d c. 369 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:16.720 Between Kennedy and King. 370 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.200 That's the whole point of the March on Washington moving 371 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.319 towards that legislation. Then we know that Kennedy was assassinated, 372 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.000 and then it fell to the shoulders of LBJ, Lyndon 373 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.680 Baines Johnson. Part of the reason is we talk about 374 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:35.200 the politics of how we got here. Part of the 375 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:40.279 reason why the Democrats became the party of African Americans 376 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.559 and labor, the realignment of different constituencies is because that 377 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.359 even though the Democratic Party, which was a racist party 378 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:51.880 in the South, if you go back to the fifties 379 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.720 and sixties, the South was all blue, all blue, all Confederates. 380 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:03.000 But because LBJ, who himself was an avowed racist, was 381 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.839 able to sign the Civil Rights Act and the Voting 382 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:11.880 Rights Act, the alliances of the party switched where today, 383 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.480 if you look at the map, the South is all read. 384 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.359 That's when it happened. People say the parties didn't switch, Oh, 385 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.480 yes the hell they did. And it was because of 386 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:22.880 the Civil Rights Act. And it was Lenna Bains Johnson 387 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.599 who allegedly famously said that in signing the Civil Rights 388 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:31.480 legislation that I'm signing away the South for the next generation. 389 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:36.279 And disaffected Democrats left the party. But why are you 390 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:41.519 talking about this Because every successful protest leads to legislation. 391 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.599 It will be different if we could hear right now 392 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.359 or there was some savvy politician or elected official out 393 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:50.799 there who was saying, like, because of what's going on 394 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.960 right now, I'm going to make sure that we're going 395 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.200 to pass this legislation, federal legislation. I'm going to introduce 396 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:01.279 it in Congress where Ice can't do xyz that whatever 397 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:02.359 the legislation is. 398 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.039 But see, they're in lives. 399 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:10.039 The issue with even these protests right now, the legislation 400 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:16.200 for these Civil Rights Act and the Voter Registration Act, 401 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:20.799