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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now

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it's time for the Paranormal peep Show.

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Speaker 2: Hi, this is near Ward of the Paranormal Peep Show,

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wishing you a very happy new Year. For twenty twenty five,

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We're taking a slightly different approach this month because I

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am a snow l under with a lot of work

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to do with publishing deadlines and things, so I'm going

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to use an archived copy or two of some previous

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interviews that I've done. So for the first one, we've

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got ben Emine Jones interview in me and doctor Kate

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Cheryl of Beryls and Beyond, who we met at the

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Seriously Strange conference back in August of last year, and

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Ben interviews both myself and her concerning paranormal topics. And

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then in part two, we have an interview again with myself,

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but this time conducted by my own daughter, Morgan geddis Ward.

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Speaker 3: And welcome everyone. Welcome. My name is ben Emlin Jones,

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and I'm here for another discussion with my good friend

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Conrade and colleague Neil Ward. Wherever you are listening in

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the world, morning, evening or afternoon, I hope you enjoy

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this particular program. We are joined by our special guest,

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Kate Cheryl, and I'm very very interested to hear what

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she has to say. So, but it was before we

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go a go, Neil, how are you? Are you all right? Yeah,

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I'm great, Ben, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: My book True Tales of Paranorm has just recently come

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out in November, published by Ucturius Press, and I've been

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writing that for a few years now, but it's all

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based upon like stories and encounters that I've heard over

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the years, and I thought it was about time actually

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put these down on paper before they're lost forever. So literally,

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as I think a lot of people did projects during

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the lockdown, and that was one of my pet projects

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in Lockdown to actually get cracking on that. So you know,

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after four years of messing about with it, it's finally

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come to a figuration, which is quite nice. So yeah,

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I'm very pleased about that.

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Speaker 3: Excellent congratulations. So I've got my own puppy. I haven't

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read it yet, but some so he looks very interesting.

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And I know you well, so I know that whatever

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you have to say is extremely interesting. And I would

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like to introduce our special guest, Kate Cheryl. So Kate. Hello,

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how are.

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Speaker 4: You Hello, I'm good, Thank you good.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to our show, our discussion. I hope you hope

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you have a lot of interesting things to talk about.

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So would you like to introduce yourself in your own words?

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Speaker 4: Right? Okay, Well I'm I'm Dot Kate Cheryl. I am

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a writer, a paranormal historian, and a broadcaster, and my

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book is coming out next year in May. So I'm

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still twiddling my thumbs until my novel comes out. So

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I live vicariously through Neil for the next few months.

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Speaker 3: Oh so it's fictional, it's you're doing a fictional work.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's like a It's a paranormal Gothic thriller

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but written in Victorian Gothic traditions. So it's the sort

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of book that I'd like to read. So I tried

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to write that, of course, that.

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Speaker 3: You got to have me and that sounds excellent. I mean,

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I really like Dennis Wheatley. I think he's very good.

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I've read The Devil Rides Out, which is a great book.

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It's a great Oh that's really excess. So that's interesting.

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You for fiction fit one, fiction and fact overlap. It's

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always interesting. My own literature is like that too. So

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did you do you speak at conferences and things? I

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can't remember whether you were at the ASSPS seriously strange

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has were you there? Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm usually lurking in the background of a lot

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of conferences and conventions like a little goblin people watching,

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But I did present at the last ASSUB conference. One

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of my many, many, sort of spectral obsessions is celebrity

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seance and popular seance in popular culture, and trends in

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paranormal investigation. Again, people watching. I see the whole world

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like an airport departure lounge. Just that one nosy neighbor,

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just taking notes, all right. I spoke about celebrity seance

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and Elvis and his many afterlives and yeah that's for

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my next larger nonfiction work, but that won't be.

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Speaker 3: It's coming back to me now actually because I was there,

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so it's sort of coming back to me now. Yeah,

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that's right. So, which celebrities have been to seances? I mean,

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I know I can think of a couple of names myself, but.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is my interest is more than well more

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celebrities have been siances. And you can never think generally

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a lot of people will visit them, and certainly did

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in the past. But my interest is really mediums and

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spiritualist groups and paranormal groups who say they are communicating

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with the spirits of dead celebrities, and what comes through

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comes through. Everything is taken with not so much a

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pinch of salt, but like a dump truck of salts.

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But I find what a lot of these celebrity ghosts

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have said to be very indicative of different social, cultural, financial,

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religious trends that time. So I think looking at the

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ridiculousness of celebrity seiances and tells us a lot about

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ourselves and a lot about our relationships with celebrity and

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parasocial relationships as well. So I've been looking at everything

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from this is like one of my many rooms of

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tat like Elvis. I've got a seance with Elvis, two

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saans with Elvis's, two salances with Elvis, rather only one Elvis,

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several seances on record books on John Lennon's Afterlife and

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what Toot and Carmoon has been up to in the

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mid noughties, and Oscar Wilde even dictated Oscar wild Mark

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Twain and Dickens dictated books and poetry from beyond the grave,

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if the means are to believed. The contents I find

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to be very interesting, especially when that contents is coming

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through was as like music or poetry or a very

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very creative aspect. I find that incredibly interesting.

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Speaker 3: That is fascinating. Actually. I mean, now, when it comes

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to celebrities who communicate allegedly, Elvis Presley is always her

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name is going to come up because and he is dead.

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I'm afraid, let's say that to my fellow conspiracy theorists.

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This is what is the one that's not true. I'm

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afraid he is dead. It's and it's sad, but you know,

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he died a lonely, quite young man. It's very sad,

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but these things happen, you know, sometimes people just do die.

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And but a popular newspaper, not one of the most

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intellectual in the world, which I remember in this country,

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once did actually a series of articles claiming to be

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in contact with Elvis. And there was a whole list

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of the whole list of various communications, including some people

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who's a woman whose own son had died and said, well,

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do you know him? And the answer was yes, yes,

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I know him. We make music together in heaven and

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things like this, which must be incredible because there are

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so many people who knew Elvis. Is he making music

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with all of them? I mean, it's going to be

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a pretty big tribute part, then, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it does seem that in the afterlife everyone's got

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very clear diary, everyone's really open to immediate creative collaboration,

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and there are endless recording studios that stretch out into eternity.

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So I think when it comes to Elvis, because he

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was known more as just a straight singer rather than

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a songwriter, I haven't come across that many instances of

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Elvis producing new music in the afterlife. For he's in

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many instances he's held up like a almost like a

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messiah figure, like a deity in himself, which I suppose

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he was. He was a pop culture god for decades,

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and so he's become this this figure onto which many

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people can project their own needs and wants, and he

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represents far more in death than he ever did in life.

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And so there are so many collections of experiences where

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Elvis was seen when he was live, in multiple places

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around the globe where people had interactions with him and

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then he went off. But he was never in that

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location physically, So from that psychologically you can extrapolate a

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lot of really interesting and sidelines. You can think, well,

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were people sort of manifesting Elvis? Were they projecting that

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onto all the people? Were they completely inventing these whole experiences?

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Or theoretically, can someone's consciousness and they're an appearance of

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themselves like a shadow of themselves, appear in several places

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at once to suit other people's needs. Whereas people like

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John Lennon, who was known far more as a songwriter

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and a symbol of peace and that very idealistic movement,

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he has produced far more music and far more pseudo

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profound messages from the afterlife and his well Elvis has

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I mean, I've got like a rack of Elvis books

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there that I'm working with at the minute. I've got

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a small clutch of John Lennon once as well, But

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the eldest ones are more there's more of a crossover

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with a different paranormal fields, parapsychological fields, psychic fields and

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UFO UAP fields, Whereas John Lennon is very firmly spectral and.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting, I mean, I take your point about

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the cultural influence I mean, I was just thinking of

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the song by Mark Cohne called Walking in Memphis, which

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is about a special encounter with Elvis Presley, which it's

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a lovely it's a lovely song. Actually, I really like it.

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Now I suppose the question is, firstly, you mentioned the

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euthological elements. Now, John Lennon is very, very famously associated

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with euthology because he alleges he had an encounter with

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a UFO in New York City, United seventy three. It

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was during his last weekend when he left Yoko and

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went off with Maypang and then came back to her

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and things like that. He calls out his last weekend.

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So it's easy to put it down to, you know,

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mental turmoil and maybe some taking a few substances to

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try and eat the pain. So it is, it is,

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I mean, but it's but as I never heard about

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a euthological connection to Elvis.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there's there seems to be a lot of

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crossover in that Elvis has all the answers, he becomes

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this godlike figure like it's just out of reach. But

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there's a there's an album. It was a very small

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press called a Seance with Elvis. The King lives on

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and talks to the world from beyond the grave, and

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it's several short conversations between a psychic called David Bair

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and the spirit of Elvis, and within that in the afterlife,

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he can tell you very firmly through that and many

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of the books what the little Green men are, because

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we're working within the context of common parlance at the time.

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You know what UFOs are, what aliens really are, using

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different terminologies rather outdated now. But he, you know, can

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come through and on several different occasions have said, yeah,

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they're real, they're angels, they're visitors. And he's given so

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many different reasonings and explanations for unidentified aerial phenomena as

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the decades have progressed. But I find that very interesting,

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Like you say that Lenin is so linked with a

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claim of like an alien experience, shall we say, but

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people don't focus on that. They seem to focus far

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more on his songwriting and his sort of profound sort

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of ways. I suppose when beyond the Grave seeing him

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more as a like a Jesus like figure preaching rather

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than offering any real explanation to any unidentified and unexplained phenomena.

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Whereas Elvis is clearly there with all the answers to

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the universe.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I mean, Neil and I discussed this regularly. We've

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been collaborated many times on many different programs, and I

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think it's fair to say we're both somewhat centrists when

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it comes to this issue. I mean, what do you

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think about this, Neil? Because I personally have an open

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mind about the possibility of afterlife's communication. It's I understand

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that it's a very difficult thing to prove. There have

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been claims that it has been proven by some people.

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Others disagree. But what do you think about Elvis?

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Speaker 2: And so from that position that I do come from

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the position that I believe there isn't afterlife, and obviously

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I do nediumship myself, so I communicate with something that's

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out there now, whether it's some sort of psychological process,

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some sort of partly is a psychological process that makes

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your mind work in a different fashion to be able

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to bring those communications in. But I mean, I've been

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to many many psychic readings, mediumistic readings, and the strations

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of cray voids. Some are absolutely being downright bloody awful

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and some are being absolutely cracking bang on stuff, you know.

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But to give an example of celebrities coming back from

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the afterlife, I went to this demonstration of this guy

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called Chris Howorth who came from somewhere up north. I

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can't of them, like somewhere up in Yorkshire, I think again.

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He traveled all the way down to the south in

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Dorset to Portland. He came to which you've been too

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bad and did a demonstration. No, he didn't come to Portland,

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bigger party. He came to Weymouth and he did a

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demonstration in a hired room that we went to, and

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he claimed to be a.

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Speaker 3: Going into trance.

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Speaker 2: You go into one of these little psychic cabinets, if

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you like cabinets, these mediums going They're typically used in

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physical sciences, where a medium would go into something like

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a cupboard, but in this case it's like material. So

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I think very very Victorian. Yeah, think of a toilet

237
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tent in a camping field. That's what they're using these days.

238
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They're using toilet tent type scenarios. They go in there

239
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and they draw the curtains. The idea it helps build

240
00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:19,840
up the energies within the frame of this covered or

241
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this tent. Now, in typical manifestations, in a physical manifestation,

242
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,360
a spirit would emerge from the said cabinet and in

243
00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:32,519
a suse. But on this particular occasion, this guy was

244
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going into trance and supposedly speaking with voices of the dead. Now,

245
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I have seen other demonstrations are clearvoys where people are

246
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:45,559
speaking doing voice mediumshit, and they don't need that sort

247
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of paraphernala that this guy's using. And this guy was

248
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putting up big posters of himself around the room, calling

249
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himself international medium. So it was kind of really blowing

250
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,039
his own trumpet, I felt. But anyway, halfway through he

251
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was coming through. First of all, one of the first

252
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spirits he brought through was the spirit of Louis Armstrong,

253
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and they played a recording of It's a Wonderful World

254
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and everyone was singing along to it to raise the vibrations.

255
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And this medium was then coming through with a voice

256
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of supposedly Louis Armstrong, and he's trying to sing in

257
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,000
time with his own song, and he couldn't actually sing

258
00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:24,639
in time with it. And I'm thinking, if you're really

259
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:27,320
Louis Armstrong, surely you'd know how to sing your own

260
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song and sing it in time, and then later on

261
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he brought through Quentin Crisp, the famous gay writer and

262
00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:42,600
actor performer The Naked Civil Servant. I think, I think

263
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it's famous for, but he got it wrong. Instead of

264
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,360
Kat saying hello everyone, it's Quentum Crisp, he got his

265
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,360
own name wrong. And I write about this in the book.

266
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He actually came through and hello. He did a camp

267
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voice to try and betray himself as Quentin cris and

268
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he goes, hello everyone, it's Crispin Quentin here, and you

269
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could feel everyone in the room kind of look at

270
00:17:02,039 --> 00:17:04,000
each other, even though it's dark, with each other and

271
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whisper and thinking, hang on, it's Quentin Crisp, isn't it.

272
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Surely you know he's got the name wrong. So he

273
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did a bit of a parade about that, and then

274
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later on even it got worse. It was really going

275
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downhill this this sales. He later on he brought through

276
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the voice of a spirit guide who then said that

277
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because they've played the song My Sweet Lord by George Harrison,

278
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he said that during the next few minutes in the dark,

279
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:32,039
George Harrison and John Lennon will come out of this

280
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,839
cabinet and walk around the audience and touch them on

281
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,559
the shoulders. Now this is a festation, yeah yeah, but

282
00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:42,880
this was completely in the dark, so there's no infra

283
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,240
red lights to see these spirits in an even in

284
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in for red light setting. And I thought one absolute

285
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,559
waste of time because even if it was, you know,

286
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,480
you can't prove it's George Harrison tapping on the shoulder

287
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because a you can't switch on the lights and look

288
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,359
be there not even saying anything. So I thought that

289
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,880
was a complete stupid thing to say. Really, he was

290
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,079
just trying to make it sound fantastic. I mean he

291
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,319
was really insulting the intelligence. And there was a lot

292
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:11,839
of people there that like me, that have been to

293
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,079
seances and mediumship and things who really know the kind

294
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,480
of material that what it should be, the standard should be.

295
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,480
So this was an absolute parody of it. I think

296
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the only person he did bring through was Elvis. Maybe

297
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,279
that's because he couldn't sing his voice or something. Louis

298
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,920
Armstrong has a very unique voice. I mean I've never

299
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,400
met anyone who can imitate that actual voice.

300
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:33,680
Speaker 3: I mean famous for it, you know.

301
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well he was trapped and accent and it was

302
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,359
a very poor American accent. And I have to say

303
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,559
the only accent that he did do convincingly he brought

304
00:18:46,599 --> 00:18:50,759
through this unknown miner from North Yorkshire, and because Chris

305
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:54,519
came from Yorkshire himself, that's the only accent he could

306
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:56,720
do convincingly was a Yorkire accent because it hamp to

307
00:18:56,759 --> 00:18:57,200
be his own.

308
00:18:58,519 --> 00:19:01,559
Speaker 3: Oh that's you get back some good results and bad results.

309
00:19:01,559 --> 00:19:04,720
But have you had similar experiences, Kate? Have you been

310
00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:06,160
to these events like Neil House?

311
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 4: Well, quite, frankly, I'm got it that I've never been

312
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,240
to one of these. I'm like, I'm going to lock

313
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:14,559
up his dates if I go and see him.

314
00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 2: I'm just the Union, I mean, that's how worth is

315
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,680
his name. And I did actually check out afterwards, like

316
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,000
you always can't when I do this once i've seen

317
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,240
a medium and I'm really suspicious of their abilities. If

318
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,640
they're fantastic, I don't really check out on the big wall,

319
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:34,920
when are they going to come back?

320
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 3: You know?

321
00:19:35,519 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 2: But when they've done a really poor show and they're

322
00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:42,160
really bad, and I then look into them afterwards, I

323
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,240
really should look it into them beforehand, but I kind

324
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:46,559
of do it the wrong way around, really, and I

325
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,839
read all these reports and on forums about this guy,

326
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:53,160
and they said either he's a downright fraud or he's

327
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,240
totally deluded and thinks he can do it.

328
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 3: But I don't know if he's still doing it.

329
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,759
Speaker 2: But his name is and imon'll say his name publicly

330
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:01,920
because he's advertised himself publicly and I'm allowed to have

331
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,960
an opinion of him. People also I won't mention names,

332
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,359
but I'm thinking, well, why why you're protecting them, you know,

333
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,880
So I'll say Chris Howard and he's an alleged trance

334
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,680
medium and he comes from around the North area, and

335
00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,079
I thought it was Yorkshire or something like that. Well,

336
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,920
how Howorth itself is in North Yorkshire, so it's either

337
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,640
Howarth or Howard. Chris Howth or Howard I can't quite remember,

338
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,160
but his number about five years ago.

339
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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think I was.

340
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,839
Speaker 4: Just gonna say I love that. I think when it

341
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,160
comes to trance mediums or anyone who says that they

342
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:39,839
channel anyone who was wants a public figure. I think,

343
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,799
regardless of the quality of the of the manifestations of

344
00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:48,319
the messages, the sheer front or self belief, that you

345
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,839
have to have to think, you know what, sad it

346
00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,279
I'm going to charge people. I believe that I can

347
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,920
channel this person. Whether or not it's legitimate or not

348
00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:01,079
is it doesn't matter to me. It's the very realization

349
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,519
and the decision making to go, yeah, tonight, me and

350
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,160
the ghost of Joan Rivers are gonna have a great

351
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,839
time and have a picnic on stage. I think fair play.

352
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,759
If you've got that much self belief that you can

353
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:19,119
do that, and you can do someone, especially like Quentin

354
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,559
Crisp or Crispy Quentin as he may be being caught

355
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:24,440
by now. And to have that self believed to think

356
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:29,480
I can mimic or channel one of the country's greatest

357
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,160
ever wits, I think is staggering. I love it. It's

358
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,359
like there's have I got it here? There's a book

359
00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:42,200
called this is a very dramatic pause, but it's relevant.

360
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,599
Speaker 3: I mean, I would say, yeah, okay, sorry.

361
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:50,519
Speaker 4: Psychic messages from Oscar Wilde by Hester Travers Smith, and

362
00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:54,960
I think this is kind of the ultimate version of

363
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:58,359
channeling Quentin Crisp. If you think that you're a good

364
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,000
enough medium to channel one of the world's greatest writers

365
00:22:02,079 --> 00:22:05,480
and greatest wits and say that these are his legitimate messages,

366
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:08,240
this is what's coming through from the afterlife. I think

367
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:10,519
fair play for you know, fair play. I'm going to

368
00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:12,359
be in that audience, and I'm going to write about

369
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,000
you relentlessly because that's fascinating to me.

370
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:18,759
Speaker 3: I don't resent people if they really believe it, even

371
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:21,519
if they're right, or even if they're wrong about their abilities.

372
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,319
If they somehow have got it into their mind that

373
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,240
they can channel, then I don't feel resentful to them

374
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,720
because they're not committee of fraud. They may have deluded themselves,

375
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,119
and I personally believe, like Neil says, I personally believe

376
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,440
there is such a thing as genuine channeling. But there's

377
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,920
also going to be people who believe they can do

378
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,200
it when they can't. But they're not deceiving people deliberately.

379
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 4: That's the murky nature of medianship and spiritualism, spiritual beliefs.

380
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,000
Because everything is based on a faith system. The ones

381
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:56,920
that aren't so great are going to get mixed up

382
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,319
with the ones that you think, oh, they're really onto something.

383
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,440
So it's it's terribly awkward I think to try and

384
00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:06,039
you discern for yourself what fits in your personal belief

385
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:06,960
system and what doesn't.

386
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,319
Speaker 3: Well, sort of an issue of murky areas. Now, I'm

387
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,519
fascinated with the idea that some of these spirits, the

388
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:18,680
claim is they are creating. There's creating, continuing to create

389
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,599
the works of art that made them famous from the

390
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:25,720
other side through channeling it to people in this world. Now,

391
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:30,000
that's what's interesting about that is I'd be curious to

392
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,279
hear the songs, to read the books, to look at

393
00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,200
the paintings and things like that. There's several issues over this.

394
00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:42,519
One of them is copyright. There is nothing in the

395
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:44,920
law which where there's any kind of precedent for this,

396
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:48,519
because officially, the arter life doesn't exist, and even though

397
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:51,680
most people believe in it in some form or another, officially,

398
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,720
in terms of the law, it doesn't exist. So the

399
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,279
estate of the person who's passed away might have some

400
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,200
kind of claim to take action. I mean, there's a

401
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,440
good example of this. It's not specifically channeling up, it's

402
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,240
this channeling at a deceased spirit. Jason Knight, American author

403
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:15,519
who claimed that she she's claimed for many, many years

404
00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:18,279
she's been in touch with a priest from Atlantis called Rantha,

405
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,680
and she she's quite You probably heard of that. Yeah,

406
00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:24,039
she set up the Ramp School of Enlightenment which has

407
00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:27,720
become very famous, and as many many videos recordings interviews

408
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,839
she'd done with David Letterman and Terry Wogan where she

409
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,319
actually goes into a trial state and starts speaking, and

410
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,559
to be honest, the voice does change and she does

411
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:38,279
appear to be taken on different mannerisms. Of course, she

412
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:40,119
could be a good actress and that could be all

413
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,000
it is. But she did sue a lady from Switzerland

414
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,480
who claimed that she was also channeling Ranther and One.

415
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:52,759
So in other words, she is claiming her challenge from

416
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,279
Aunt Ramp as her intellectual property.

417
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 5: Now, so what was the court case label as Rampa

418
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,319
versus Ramp Think something like that. Yeah, anyway, his holiness

419
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,319
from Lands didn't intervene trying. It didn't appear as a

420
00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:10,039
witness or anything like that. But I mean this this

421
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,440
doesn't enter. It does kind of open a legal loophole,

422
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,000
and I think it's niel. I had discussed many times

423
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,839
the witchcraft trial where Helen Duncan almost got to perform

424
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,319
a me a seance in court and it was stopped.

425
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,839
Speaker 3: It was stopped by the judge. And if that happened,

426
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:30,119
then we maybe things have been a bit different. But

427
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:35,880
has there been any situations where the the loved ones

428
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:39,559
and those left behind have actually commented on this supposed

429
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,000
work being created by the spirit.

430
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean when when it comes to loved ones.

431
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,720
When the pay per view seance the Spirit of John

432
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:54,279
Lennon was broadcast in the early two thousands, the Lenin

433
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,960
Estate and Yokowono very publicly condemned its broadcast and condemned

434
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:02,079
the content. And I think if the contents had just

435
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,119
been here's a song that we channeled of John Lennon's. Yeah,

436
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,000
it's an alright song, it's an album track, it's not

437
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:13,359
a single, it's fine, then I think, you know, maybe

438
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,440
there would be an overreaction and just dismiss it. But

439
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,519
I think their primary issue was with the mediumship that

440
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,240
happened up to that final reveal of This is Lennon's

441
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:25,839
New song. So the issue was more of an ethical

442
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,960
issue of the channeling of this, say Liverpoodlian medium called

443
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,839
Joe Power. He did all the mediumship in that and

444
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:39,000
he also had a horse drawn carriage trip around Central

445
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:42,319
Park where he was joined by the spirits of John

446
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,640
and George. Again, so they're clearly knocking about in the

447
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,559
afterlife in many, many capacities. But it's funny that you

448
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,720
mentioned copyright issues, because I'm not sure if you've heard

449
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,400
of a medium called Rosemary Brown.

450
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 3: I was going to go into her.

451
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: Actually the pano playing teacher, Yes, who channel Chopin.

452
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,599
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, she was a dinner lady from London,

453
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,920
and she she started to channel and see these great

454
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,000
classical composers, and in particular she formed a very close

455
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:20,640
relationship with List, and List channeled new work through her,

456
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,039
and she could play the piano a little bit before.

457
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,240
But if her story is to believe, she suddenly became

458
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:27,880
this amazing concert pianist.

459
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:30,559
Speaker 2: Can I just say something out there about that. I mean,

460
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,599
in the book that I read, I don't know if

461
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:34,559
she produced more one book. I certainly really one book,

462
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,920
she claimed she and in interviews she she would say,

463
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,720
I am a mediocre piano player because I could never

464
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:47,160
do the actual piano playing justice and what I've seen

465
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,079
her do on TV she would sometimes engage the services

466
00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:53,720
or it was a public performance, you engage services of

467
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,680
a grader piano player to actually perform the written music,

468
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,799
and she would, you know, even not play it. I

469
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:01,759
mean and she'd probably play a little bit just to say, well,

470
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,519
this is how it roughly went. But she always claimed

471
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,160
that she was never a great piano player, and she'd

472
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,000
always try and get someone else better than her to

473
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:09,400
play it.

474
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think she did for the public broadcast, but

475
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,880
I think the vinyl that was produced the music and

476
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:23,000
Rosemary Brown, I think she did herself by channeling. And

477
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,960
I think I've got let me go, Rosemary Brown. I

478
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,480
don't have some of my books to hand. This is

479
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:31,400
a few, a few select ones.

480
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,839
Speaker 3: I've been working the gravest last in case of emergency

481
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,680
type books. Yeah.

482
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 4: Yes, But her channeled work from Liszt was this big

483
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:44,440
piece called Grublelee, and it's beautiful. It's a genuinely good

484
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,279
piece of music. And I think out of everyone who

485
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:49,680
was claimed to channel a great musician and produce a

486
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,759
new piece of music, Rosemary Brown has the most compelling argument.

487
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:58,200
But when she was trying to get Grubilee pressed and

488
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:04,079
registered and everything, she tried to initially publish it under

489
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:10,519
Brown and List, whereas the List estate had issues with that,

490
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:13,079
not trying to claim it, but trying to remove their

491
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,799
name from it, so they felt that she didn't she

492
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:21,000
couldn't have the endorsement of the List name, so she

493
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,839
couldn't list him. She couldn't list him. Obviously going to

494
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:26,000
get confusing, isn't it. She couldn't list him as a

495
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,119
co composer without their permission, so ultimately it ended up

496
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:36,039
being released as Grubeli Rosemary Brown inspired by List, so

497
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:39,839
on legal grounds they couldn't say that List was directly

498
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,759
involved in any capacity, living or dead. But she did

499
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:45,640
still get that piece of music out there, and it

500
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:52,319
is still regarded as a Brown List, the next collaborative effort.

501
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:55,519
Speaker 3: It's interesting that it was so long ago because John

502
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,720
very famously died in nineteen eighty but List, according to

503
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,480
what I could see, he had died in eighteen eighty six,

504
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:07,160
so it's much further than far longer ago. But there's

505
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,759
still this issue with the estate and copyright. After all

506
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:12,799
this time he has he has living descendants presumably somewhere.

507
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,200
It's funny actually, because I remember reading in one of

508
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,039
the books where Rosemary Brown will go shop into the

509
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:23,200
supermarket and it's either List or show panels. Someone comes

510
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,720
through or Bark, I can't remember, would go shopping with her,

511
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:30,240
so she claimed and say, if you turn over that

512
00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:32,519
packet there, you'll see a better price on that packet

513
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,839
of baked beans than the one that you're picking up,

514
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,119
sort of thing. You know, it's straight handy. Yeah. They

515
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:39,559
didn't happen to help her on the on the musical front.

516
00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:41,039
Speaker 2: They helped her on a kind of a whole lot

517
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:43,599
of things apparently, which is very helpful of them.

518
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,359
Speaker 3: That is, I mean, I suppose with John because it's

519
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,480
more recent, I suppose it's he has a living relatives, yeah,

520
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:54,359
one generation for example, his son and people like that.

521
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,119
I mean the ethical issue I suppose with the pay

522
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,799
per view mediumship show and the song would be it

523
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:04,079
was the money being made. I suppose that would to

524
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:08,039
me would be the big ethical issue because these people profited.

525
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:10,319
I suppose off a story about John.

526
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: Yeah it was. It was very much around the same

527
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,079
era of lots of unofficial DVDs about reality reality show stars.

528
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,599
And the company that made the two there only two

529
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,400
pay per view seances was a company called star Cast,

530
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:27,960
and that was run by a man called Paul Sharrett,

531
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,279
who sadly died just a couple of years after the

532
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:36,119
Lenin seance. And they kind of specialized in those adjacent

533
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:38,200
tie in DBDs, you know, like when you go into

534
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,160
supermarkets when like the Da Vinci Code came out, and

535
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,079
before the actual film came out, they'd be like stories

536
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:48,880
of the code of the da Vinci for your Alligane

537
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,359
to Night. So someone would go, oh, that's that film

538
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,640
you like, isn't it. So they sort of traded on

539
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,720
that unofficial name by association.

540
00:31:58,559 --> 00:31:59,599
Speaker 3: I've got a few times for that.

541
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen more terrible bay Rectory films

542
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,200
through those little impulsive supermarket purchases than I care to admit.

543
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's about four films about bay Rectory came

544
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,119
out between about twenty twenty and twenty twenty two. And

545
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,680
that's some were better, some were better than others. That's true, yes, yeah,

546
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,960
But you know it's it's an extraordinary idea that I mean,

547
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:28,440
for example, if this was ever proved this is, it

548
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,000
would open up a can of worms. I think this

549
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:33,000
is why the issue of Helen Duncan came about. I mean,

550
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,039
there's the whole there's a whole issue to do with

551
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:37,440
espionage in World War Two and things like that as well.

552
00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,799
But it's uh, I think maybe people frightened of the

553
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,119
implications of this actually being essentially it was not a

554
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,720
laboratory accord, but it's it's still very similar because it's

555
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,400
a controlled environment where it's it's you can't imagine someone

556
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,559
put doing a fake sales in it in a courtroom.

557
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 4: Hmm, yeah, I think Helen dor Hanson.

558
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: Sorry, carry on, say I was going to say, what

559
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,400
would happen in your view if we were speculated here?

560
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,680
But it's a very interting idea of what happened. For example,

561
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,839
there was a situation like The Discovery. I don't know

562
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,200
if you've ever seen that film. It's a good movie. Actually,

563
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:16,480
Robert Redford plays a kind of mad scientist character who

564
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:21,640
proves that the afterlife is real and it transforms society.

565
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,240
And this was one of the things that would it

566
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:29,319
would be transformed, wouldn't it. I mean the idea that

567
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,799
spirits exist and spirits can communicate. For example, it has

568
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:38,039
proved the spiritual communication was real and it was accepted generally,

569
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,160
we'd be in a situation where all to all kinds

570
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,799
of channel information. You know, Charles Dickens's new book Charge

571
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,160
Dickens enter the public domain years ago because he died

572
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,519
in when it was a late nighteenth century so how

573
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,319
could he still stay in the public domain if he's

574
00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:59,160
like channeling new books through a person a sightly turn

575
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,640
the whole legal thing on its head.

576
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: When I mean, this is the society that we're presently

577
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:08,719
being under, tries to turn the official world there is,

578
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,000
tries to turn its gaze away from there goes my light.

579
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: I think we just say, can I just start going

580
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:16,320
on what would happen in terms of you, obviously, how

581
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,639
do you pay? You can't pay the author royalties. At

582
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:22,960
the same time, who would those royalties belong to?

583
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 4: There were many living creatives who have outlived the it

584
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,199
in the US, I think it's seventy year rule seventy one. Yeah,

585
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:36,760
so there are people that are outliving that and they're

586
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,239
seeing their own works become public domain. So i'd imagine

587
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:46,559
that regardless of their blood pumping status. So I would

588
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,480
I guess really that that would stand in the afterlife,

589
00:34:50,519 --> 00:34:53,800
there is no copyright and there are there is no

590
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,719
trademark infringement in the afterlife because in.

591
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,639
Speaker 3: This country, yeah, it's actually it's seventy years off the

592
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:02,920
death the creator, not the publication date.

593
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,159
Speaker 4: Well, there was something recently with publication dates. I can't

594
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:11,119
remember which it was. There was an issue with it

595
00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:13,519
entering public domain, whether was still alive.

596
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,119
Speaker 3: God and the Biolence, I don't know. I know that

597
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,400
God in the Bucket. Yeah, he's never tried to sue. Yeah,

598
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:27,000
but well, I mean I know that Frank Bourne. I

599
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:30,360
had to look into Frank Bourne, the guy created the

600
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,239
Wizard of Oz, because I included some words from that

601
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,000
novel in my first novel. I included some words from

602
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,519
that particular work at some passages, and I just had

603
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,360
checked when he died. And luckily he died literally seventy

604
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,840
years before two thousand and two when I published my

605
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,320
first novels, and he was just he was just in

606
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,760
the public domain under British law. Now, the I mean

607
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,880
in terms of the books and things. I mean, if

608
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,039
you were channeling him, how at the moment in a

609
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:00,880
position where any I could write thing and say it was,

610
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:03,559
you know, especially someone I'm familiar with, an author I'm

611
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:06,480
familiar with, and I could write something and it will

612
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:09,480
be I suppose you How could I prove it's just

613
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:12,360
not some kind of fan fiction and it's not the

614
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,840
person actually really giving me this information. It'd be pretty

615
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:17,639
much impossible.

616
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:23,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think you can, because to to feasibly

617
00:36:23,159 --> 00:36:25,440
say that this isn't mine, this is channeled by someone,

618
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,400
it would take for society as a whole to broadly

619
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,880
accept that that channeling spirits was was viable. So I

620
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:40,039
don't think until you can empirically measure spirit contacts and

621
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:44,880
psychic abilities, then you'll just have to whack on caveats

622
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,320
of supposedly and reportedly and you know, there's those little signifiers.

623
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 3: That was actually a big criticism I had of the

624
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,920
film The Discovery. It was a good film, but it

625
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000
didn't I think it didn't explore the subject matter deeply

626
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:01,280
enough and it could have addressed points like that. I mean,

627
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,119
I'm Neil and I often discuss what would happen in

628
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,400
the UFO disclosure situation. So, for example, the government just admit, yeah,

629
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,840
we've got alien bodies frozen somewhere and things like that,

630
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:13,679
aliens are real, et cetera, et cetera. How did that

631
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,800
transform society? And these these scientific discoveries and revelations always do,

632
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:21,199
They always have some effect far outside the world of

633
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:28,239
science and politics. You know, that's it's a curious And Neil,

634
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:31,719
have you ever have you ever heard about these people

635
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,280
who I'm asking you both now, who try to solve

636
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,400
historical mysteries by channeling people from the past. Like a

637
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,440
good one is Diana, Princess of Wales. How did she die?

638
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,840
Who killed her? If she if someone did kill her,

639
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:46,880
was it just an accident and things like that. Well,

640
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:47,320
there was.

641
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,159
Speaker 2: Jane Roberts who channeled the entity Seth in the late sixties,

642
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,360
mid sixties right through to the early eighties. She died

643
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:58,440
in nineteen eighty four, I think, aged fifty two. It

644
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,920
was funny actually, because I've got this death book Seth Speaks,

645
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,480
and I was actually doing some mediumship at the local

646
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,280
way in the spiritual center here, so I bought the

647
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,119
book along because I wanted to talk a little bit

648
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:13,679
about the book to people about who he was and things,

649
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,639
just a five minute brief overview of it. Now, the

650
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,320
lady I was with who was like introducing me. I

651
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,079
was explaining who Seth was, and I'd say, this book's

652
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:26,960
written by Jane Roberts, she's the medium and her husband,

653
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:29,599
Robert Butts, used to take the notes, handwrite the notes,

654
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:30,679
and Jane used.

655
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: To speak for this spirit called Seth.

656
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,159
Speaker 2: But then I went on to explain that Jane Roberts

657
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:39,159
passed away in nineteen eighty four, and a few years

658
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,039
later her husband, Robert Butts, passed away. She goes, all right,

659
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:46,119
and she goes, is that Seth still alive? Then when

660
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:48,480
did he die? And I said, no, No, Seth is

661
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:52,920
the spirit. So she didn't quite get it. But basically

662
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:56,639
Seth in the book Seth Speaks, I think it's published

663
00:38:56,639 --> 00:39:00,679
about nineteen seventy one, he actually spoke about Jesus. It

664
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,519
was quite controversial because he actually said that Jesus did

665
00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:09,159
not die on the cross. Now, this actually has an

666
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:12,280
interesting twist in the teel, which I'll come to. Jesus

667
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,400
didn't die on the cross. He said what he did.

668
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,440
Ponscious Pilot, accord to what Seth said, did not want

669
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,920
to kill Jesus. So they got another man, drugged him,

670
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,239
beat him up so he wouldn't recognizeble anyway, and they

671
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,599
crucified him on the cross. And that's why it says

672
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:31,119
in the Bible one of us disciples, Peter or some

673
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,800
denied knowing him or something on the cross. I don't

674
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,880
know who that man is because it wasn't actually Jesus.

675
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,400
And then this explained the alleged resurrection of Jesus later on,

676
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,159
which was you know, Jesus actually recovering frohim whatever, and

677
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,400
he was walking about and it actually, you know, he

678
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,800
didn't go on across at all, so he had to

679
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,480
be got rid of, not not in a nasty where.

680
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:54,199
But he supposedly went to India. I guess, I don't

681
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,719
know if that's the true thing. So he had something controversial.

682
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,119
He was sort of saying, how history as different than

683
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:02,280
what it's been changed to.

684
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,159
Speaker 3: Now.

685
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:06,599
Speaker 2: When I first heard that, I was quite a standard.

686
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:08,159
I was thinking, that's pretty heavy stuff.

687
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: Now.

688
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:12,039
Speaker 2: At the time, I was in my first development circle.

689
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:13,639
Speaker 3: This is many years ago.

690
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,159
Speaker 2: We used to have this lady that used to come

691
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:19,480
along and she used to channel her spirit called Manico,

692
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:23,239
who to me sounded very much like Fuzzy Bear when

693
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,239
she spoke with it. And it's very hard to keep

694
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,480
a straight face when someone comes through from wisdom from

695
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:30,880
the higher realms, but it sounds like fuzzy Bear, and

696
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,559
you just don't know where to look in the room.

697
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:35,079
You're trying to not look at her like that because

698
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,880
you're just going to burst out laughing. So I really

699
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,840
thought this woman was fake channeling this African spirit guy

700
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,440
called Mannico. But at the same time I was experimenting

701
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,360
with challenging because I was reading a book on how

702
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,199
to Reach your Spirit Guides by a lady called Katherine Ryder.

703
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,880
When she gave information about how to channel spirit guides,

704
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,199
I thought that sounds good.

705
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 3: I'll give it a go.

706
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,599
Speaker 2: So I was experimenting and I was having some sort

707
00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:00,440
of success with it. I was bringing something through. Whether

708
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,639
it was a psychological state or its actually was the spirit,

709
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:06,440
I wasn't sure. But on the last time that this

710
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,559
lady who was bringing through this spirit guide came to

711
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,719
our circle, I couldn't actually go on that evening. So

712
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,000
I got a friend of mine to ask her to

713
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:17,400
ask this spirit guide the question did Jesus really die

714
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,239
on the Cross? And so she went on my behalf

715
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,639
and she asked the question, and it was actually recorded

716
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:25,119
so I could hear it later on. He said, you know,

717
00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:26,199
did Jesus.

718
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,679
Speaker 3: Die on the Cross?

719
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 2: And this bat spirit guide, Manico, said, give me a

720
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,440
few minutes, and he came back and he said, it

721
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:35,079
appears in his fuzzy bear voice, it appears we don't

722
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:39,360
know the answer. And I thought, ah, that's definitely fake then,

723
00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:41,920
because you know, if you're a spirit guide, you would

724
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,679
know the answer of these things. That's what I was

725
00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:46,480
thinking at the time. So I definitely was convinced that

726
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:51,960
this Mannico was fake. All right, yeah, but my brother's

727
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,440
trying to bring me. I should put it on silent

728
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,320
and let me do that now because he's going to

729
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,360
ring me up again. I suspect he's got my book

730
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,079
through the post I said in the copy of my

731
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:04,119
book ironically, and he's probably ringing me up to thank me,

732
00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:07,239
and I've got to be rude and block him. So

733
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,559
getting back to Maniko. So anyway, some about a week later,

734
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,840
remember I didn't go to this session where he came through,

735
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:18,280
so he didn't know who answerd the question apart from

736
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,599
this girl asked on my poalt but she didn't even

737
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:25,360
say my name. And so what happened was is that

738
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,239
I was practicing my own channeling session and I was

739
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,480
expecting to get this Victorian spirit guy through who I'd

740
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,039
kind of had some sort of communication with, but instead

741
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,440
I suddenly got an image in my mind that I

742
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:40,960
was like sitting on the shoulder of someone on the cross,

743
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:43,639
like Jesus. I thought, what's going on here? You know,

744
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:46,039
I've got a viewpoint where I'm sitting on the shoulder

745
00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:48,159
of Jesus like a parrot wood, you know, getting that

746
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,000
kind of viewpoint. And then suddenly my voice literally and

747
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:55,440
it sounds embarrassing, my voice literally changed into the voice

748
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,679
of this Manico like fuzzy bear, and it said, you

749
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,480
are the one that asked the question.

750
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: And I thought, what what?

751
00:43:03,519 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: I shook myself at the transfer, thought, hang on a minute,

752
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,519
and then he said, I am Manico. He finished I

753
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:11,320
am Mannico, and he said, it really forcefully threw me.

754
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,559
So I'm thinking, hang on, that that really throws open thing.

755
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,360
Does that mean that lady was really channeling this spirit

756
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,199
guide Manico? And why did I suddenly get this sane

757
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,320
spirit guide come through me? And how did he know

758
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,000
that I was the one that really asked the question?

759
00:43:26,639 --> 00:43:27,840
That was what freaked me out.

760
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 3: That is, especially when you've sort of thought about it

761
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:34,880
and thought that thing's fake anyway, And so yeah, yeah, yeah,

762
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,119
that's very that's very hard. Indeed. Yeah, so that's in

763
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:41,960
terms of Jesus. Obviously, Jesus lived and died two thousand

764
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:47,039
years ago. I mean you mentioned a franz List Kate,

765
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,760
the composer.

766
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:50,519
Speaker 2: Is it.

767
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: I mean, is there some kind of shelf life on

768
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,840
these sorts of things. I mean, I've often heard it said,

769
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,159
you know, the spirit when it comes to spirit communication,

770
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,199
after a while, they start to go silent. You know,

771
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,239
after a couple of hundred years, they stop communicating, or

772
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,079
they fade away, or something happens or prevents them communicating. Otherwise,

773
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,280
presumably there have been an infinite number of souls out

774
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,239
there going back to the beginning of life. Is what's

775
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,199
the oldest celebrity seance you can actually think of, or

776
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,119
the terms of the spirit being channeled?

777
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think in terms of spirits fading away

778
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,480
or lacking strength. I see that more to be reflective

779
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,960
of their relevance in the popular culture at the time.

780
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:39,719
So the only trend that I've really seen within seances

781
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,400
is well, the populace at large recognize this figure, and

782
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,840
so a lot of the big names from the past,

783
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:55,119
like the aforementioned classical composers right through to more modern celebrities.

784
00:44:55,119 --> 00:45:00,320
Michael Jackson's forever skipping around seance rooms, and most most

785
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,639
singers now they don't have to wait for their bodies

786
00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:05,440
to be cold before, you know, meat loafs chatting through

787
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,719
a spirit box. But I've seen I think the further

788
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,679
away you get from the point of that individual's death,

789
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:20,639
the fewer seances there are. Whether the individual is not

790
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,800
particularly known in the cultural consciousness, or the individual is

791
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,159
so far back that there's very little known about them

792
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,440
their messages, to claim that you were channeling them seems

793
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,239
to be a far greater to have far greater risk.

794
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,559
So I've seen a couple of sances where Shakespeare has

795
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:43,559
been channeled, like like you're saying, Neil, some with quite

796
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:49,599
interesting outcomes, and others where someone clearly went I've got

797
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:52,960
a gcse in English, I can do this, and then

798
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,119
thirty seconds in you see their faces go oh, I

799
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:03,840
can't keep up Elizabethan English for this long. And so

800
00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:07,800
I think kind of Shakespeare, And then before that there

801
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,760
have been a great number of channeled I see does

802
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:18,079
Jesus count as a channeled celebrity because in the then

803
00:46:18,119 --> 00:46:22,159
diagram of channeling that goes into more like charismatic Christianity,

804
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,119
and there's there's so much involved in that. But certainly

805
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,360
there's a medium called Netty Coben Maynard who's associated with

806
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,599
Abraham Lincoln, and she put out several she did several speeches,

807
00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:37,599
and I think a couple of books relating to Christ

808
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:42,119
as the first Medium and Christ as a contactable spirit

809
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,519
by accomplished spiritualists and channeling mediums, trance mediums.

810
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:50,199
Speaker 3: So Arter Finley mentioned that in his book and.

811
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think Christ is pretty happy to chat

812
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,280
through the ages Shakespeare let so.

813
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 3: Has some I mean, it's interesting that I'll go back

814
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,679
to the newspaper the famous sect of the famous communication

815
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,960
with the channeling of Elvis by this that was published

816
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,840
in this very popular British newspaper. This was published in

817
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,920
the early nineties. Now, at that time there was there

818
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,760
was a situation in the world in which Saddam Hussein,

819
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,440
leader of Iraq, had invaders Q eight and there was

820
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,559
a massive international response to that, which resulted in the

821
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:34,760
military action known as the Gulf War. And this is

822
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,119
very controversial because some people saying, yeah, yeah, we've got

823
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,679
that's absolutely, very very necessary. In other people say no, now,

824
00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:41,079
we should need to stay out of it, you know,

825
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,719
people should stay out of other countries affairs. So this

826
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,960
was a very controversial thing. This newspaper had always taken

827
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,639
a very pro invasion stance or a very pro interventionist

828
00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:55,360
stance in that particular political situation. And I started to

829
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,239
smell a rat a bit when it said, oh, Elvis

830
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,280
says how much he support the efforts to liberate you. Wait,

831
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,400
and I thought to myself, does he really or is

832
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,159
that is there? Are they just saying that it's whoever's

833
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:13,719
created this saying this channeling, this alleged channeling, actually just

834
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,639
saying that? I mean, are there any examples of a

835
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,320
person with a political bias using an alleged channeling to

836
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,239
promote their own their own positions? So, for example, well,

837
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,800
the spirits are on our side, and you often hear

838
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,239
in the what was it the in the Great War?

839
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,880
We knew that God was on our side because they

840
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,320
talked about the sanctity of the Allied cause when they

841
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,000
were attacking, when they were playing for war against Germany,

842
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,599
And of course the other side used to say the

843
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:44,960
same about the war against Britain. So God is obviously

844
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,119
a bit schizophrenic. But have you ever have you heard

845
00:48:48,119 --> 00:48:51,079
of any other examples that of channeling entities being used

846
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:54,320
to promote a very worldly political agenda?

847
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: I have to carry on, well, I know, yeah, I

848
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:03,960
remember the Sun newspaper many years ago in the eighties.

849
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,679
Speaker 3: I think it was.

850
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: Featured Doris Stokes, quite a lot of famous Grantham time

851
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:14,639
and I think it's the general election was coming up

852
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,880
and they asked Doris Stokes to communicate with Winston Churchill,

853
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,519
and Winston Churchill allegedly said from the other side, vote conservative,

854
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,199
you know, and that is the big headlines of the day.

855
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,000
Wiston Churchill says spoke conservative as brought through by Doris

856
00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:34,599
Stokes or something, which it obviously worked because people did

857
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:34,920
you know.

858
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:38,119
Speaker 3: I don't think I'll work for Keir Starmer natally, no,

859
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:39,800
I don't want to reply that, but it was it

860
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,800
was his own party. He's still partisianed in that sense.

861
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,639
But that's have you word of anything like that, Kate.

862
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 4: Well, like my go to is always Churchill, Like you say,

863
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,480
when it comes to times of general election in the UK,

864
00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:58,880
certainly the ghost of Churchill immediately crops on. It helps

865
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,320
if there's a kaftan wearing medium in the vicinity, of

866
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,639
which Doris Stokes is of course the greatest of all.

867
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:11,519
The caftan's next to were Demis Rusos. But I think

868
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:17,079
certainly in the Middle East, humph and I think in

869
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,519
so a lot of these names I've got written down,

870
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:22,559
but I can't bring them to the fore. But there's

871
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,400
a lot of countries that have traditions with ancestral worship

872
00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:32,360
and things like spirit houses and more of a religious

873
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,039
connection with their ancestors and revering the wisdom of the ancestors.

874
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:43,039
There's many instances of political parties invoking their predecessors and

875
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:46,679
saying that this is you know, it's been said, they've returned,

876
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,119
and they say vote me. But that seems to be

877
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:52,679
far more prevalent and far more accepted as a campaign

878
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,320
tactic in other countries rather than in certainly in North

879
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,239
America and Western Europe, where those sort of things are

880
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,960
are kept within within the Sun, that's where Churchill speaks,

881
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:11,199
and that's where Jack the Rippers unveiled via a variety

882
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,639
of mediums. It's all the same playing ground over here.

883
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,079
Speaker 3: Has any of these claims ever been proven false through

884
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:28,119
subsequent investigation? Yea, Silvia, what's her name? Sylvia? What's an angel? Oh? Yeah,

885
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,119
she's over brown. She said that someone was dead who

886
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:33,000
later turned out to be alive because she was childing

887
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,000
as you the spirit as someone who died it's late

888
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:37,480
turned up to be alive. But has anything ever happened

889
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:40,599
that in the celebrity field that that's not that celebrity

890
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,639
died has turned out to be alive and the corners

891
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,880
if Elvis turns up, now, yeah that's something they said,

892
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,039
it's been proven wrong.

893
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a medium called Blanche Cooper. In the twenties.

894
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,920
It was a very similar story where she was having sittings.

895
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:01,920
She was working at the uh god, was it the

896
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,679
College of I think it was the College of Psychic

897
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,159
Studies and I think it was there. It was a

898
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:09,599
different college with a very similar name that was around

899
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:11,239
in the twenties. But anyway, she was doing a load

900
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,320
of sittings and with this particular individual and they were

901
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,760
chatting with the spirit of his brother. And then there

902
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,719
were certain celebrities that came through Touton Carmoun for example,

903
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,039
because once, yeah, yeah, in the in the twenties, obviously

904
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:28,039
there was a lot of Egit Germania going along and

905
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,559
they were just about to open the tombs. So Touton

906
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:33,280
Carmun popped in and said, by the way, what you're

907
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,559
gonna find in the tomb is it wasn't very revelatory.

908
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:41,719
It was things like gold furniture, precious things. So no

909
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:47,679
great you know, great, no great insight there. But they

910
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:53,119
they contacted a spirit of I can't remember his sirn

911
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,400
It was Gordon. They contacted a spirit of his, of

912
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,480
the city's school friend, and he was saying that you know,

913
00:52:59,519 --> 00:53:01,639
he'd gone to war. This was just the first world.

914
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:03,639
While he'd gone to war, he hadn't come back. And

915
00:53:03,679 --> 00:53:07,760
they were describing his house where he lived in Eastbourne,

916
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,239
and his wife and his son, and there were landscapes

917
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,639
on the wall, and he lived on a road with

918
00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:16,199
lots of ease in it, and slowly gave more and

919
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:20,559
more information about this this childhood sort of friend who died.

920
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:24,199
But then a couple of years later they found out

921
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,320
that no, he was alive and well and living by

922
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,079
the seaside, and they had realms and realms and rooms

923
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:34,400
of communication with this spirit who was he was fine,

924
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,000
and he was just living in a terraced house by

925
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:40,400
the scene. But they went to see him and they

926
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,599
communicated with him. And there's this all a big ferrari

927
00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:47,559
about it all, because it looked like, ultimately afterwards, to

928
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:55,360
make blanches a channeled knowledge fit with reality that a

929
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,360
lot of the documents had been doctored, but there was

930
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,679
a prolonged period of time where this spirit was incredibly

931
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,280
chatty about his life. The lifely enough behind his poor

932
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,840
wife and kiddie. Not much of him was left after

933
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,280
he was blown up, and then he was fine. I

934
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,199
think he might have been working in insurance or something,

935
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,199
but he was completely clueless that he was busy being

936
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:15,519
channeled across the country.

937
00:54:16,199 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: It reminds me, reminds me of very interesting and I

938
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:22,079
met Davis. Sorry, Okay's right. I mentioned it in my

939
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:26,000
book because it was a very uncanny thing. Again, going

940
00:54:26,039 --> 00:54:28,159
back to that first psychic developing circle I was in

941
00:54:28,199 --> 00:54:30,880
where I met the lady who produced Manico, the African

942
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,280
spirit guide. There was also a chap there who was

943
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:37,719
called Oh gosh, his.

944
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:38,519
Speaker 3: Name escapes me. Now.

945
00:54:38,519 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 2: It's terrible, isn't It's more than thirty flus years ago.

946
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:45,000
Let's call him Derek for example, because I can't remember

947
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:49,400
his name. But anyway, he told me an interesting story

948
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:50,960
when he came back to the circle. He've been on

949
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,079
holiday for two weeks in a Mediterranean country Spain or Italy,

950
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:56,679
orn'th that, And he stayed in the hotel and he

951
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,360
said that during the night and he was like on

952
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,079
the tenth floor of this hotel. During the night, he

953
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:04,400
said he saw a man in a tuxedo suit walking

954
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,599
through the living room part of his apartment because he

955
00:55:08,159 --> 00:55:10,280
had the bedroom door open or his open, sort of

956
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,320
planned thing, I don't know, but he said he walked

957
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:13,840
through there and he said he saw this man walk

958
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,079
out into the balcony and then fall off the balcony.

959
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,599
He thought, bloody hell, and he looked but there was

960
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:21,599
no one down there, and he thought, I think I've

961
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:24,559
seen a ghost or something that's you know, some goes

962
00:55:24,679 --> 00:55:29,119
re enacting this last moments or something. So anyway, he

963
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,119
checked out a hotel but he said, has anything ever

964
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,559
happened in that room? They said, no, nothing's ever happened

965
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:36,679
in that room. So he's a bit perplexed. So he

966
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,599
came back to the UK, and about a week after

967
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:42,360
returned back from the UK, he suddenly got a phone

968
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,920
call from the very same hotel saying, hello, is that

969
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,800
Derek Smith? You know again I'm making out a pseudent

970
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,400
in here? Is that Derek Smith of such and such road,

971
00:55:51,559 --> 00:55:54,599
you know, Chesham in Buckhams here? And he goes, yeah,

972
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:57,880
they said, who stayed at the hotel such and such,

973
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,639
and he goes, yeah, ah, OK, we just want to

974
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,800
make sure we've got the right Derek Smith, because we've

975
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,960
got luggage here belonging to a Derek Smith who's now deceased,

976
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,199
and unfortunately he's stayed in your same hotel room after

977
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,719
you had checked out, and he had walked through the

978
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,039
lobby of the room of the hotel in a tuxedo

979
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,519
and fell over the balcony to his death. And they

980
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:24,679
were ringing up to make sure they was returning the

981
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,440
luggage to the correct family is he But it's just

982
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,760
by weird coincidence, if you want to call it coincidence,

983
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,400
that another Derek Smith checked into the same room a

984
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,199
week after him and he fell to his death, and

985
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,239
yet here he was the Derek Smith eye in the

986
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,440
same name. Had seen that vision, if you like, of

987
00:56:42,519 --> 00:56:44,000
this man going to his death.

988
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:44,599
Speaker 3: So weird.

989
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 2: So he was like either seeing a psychic thing that

990
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,559
was about to happen. But it's the weird coincidence it

991
00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:51,400
happened to have the same name as him. It's just

992
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,360
sort of what's the odds of that. It's an unusual name,

993
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,639
But no, I mean the name I'm saying, and I'm

994
00:56:56,639 --> 00:56:58,519
making the name up because I can't remember his name

995
00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:00,960
and I can't remember the guy's name. But talking of

996
00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:04,599
unusual names, I'll get to another weird coincidence to do

997
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:09,000
with spirits, which it kind of really hammers home some

998
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,119
something going on, I think, and this has going back

999
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:18,320
about six years ago. There's young medium from Southampton area

1000
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,400
called Ross Bartlett, and I've known a few people that

1001
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,159
had readings with him.

1002
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:24,639
Speaker 3: They said, he's very, very accurate. You've got to see

1003
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:25,000
this guy.

1004
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:28,119
Speaker 2: And my dog's now pestering me under the table here,

1005
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,960
so I'm going to have to twiddle her ears. So

1006
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:37,320
I'm not doing anything rude, like I'm promising that so anyway,

1007
00:57:37,519 --> 00:57:43,320
So basically, yeah, what happened. So I made arrangements to

1008
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,519
go and see him in the town of Rice Slip

1009
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:49,639
in Middlesex. And the guy that organized it said, you

1010
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:52,480
want tickets because I told him this guy, I said,

1011
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:54,039
you want to you know, you really need to get

1012
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:56,559
this medium. He's really good. So he said, okay, I'll

1013
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:59,000
book him, and he said you want tickets. I said, yeah,

1014
00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:01,679
reserved me a couple and I'll pay them on the

1015
00:58:01,719 --> 00:58:02,679
door when I get there.

1016
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,639
Speaker 3: So I turned up there, but I got.

1017
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 2: Their lake because the traffic was really bad, and then

1018
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:09,639
I'm trying to find the right building it was. Eventually

1019
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:11,440
I found the building and by the time I got

1020
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,719
in there, the thing had started. It had been going

1021
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,880
for about ten minutes, and thinking, oh my god, I've

1022
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,880
got walk through these people and try and find a chair.

1023
00:58:18,199 --> 00:58:21,280
Now there's a guy on the table who welcomed me in.

1024
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,480
He was the guy that took the money, and he

1025
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:25,519
was an elderly gentleman and he had a nice white

1026
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:27,679
shirt on and he said, they said, look, I tell

1027
00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:29,639
you what, he goes, go and sit in some seats

1028
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:32,559
over there, and you paid me the money at the end.

1029
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:35,239
And we said okay, so that we wouldn't disturb anybody

1030
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,039
with so so we crept in and then we sat

1031
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:40,880
down in our seats and literally just got my coat

1032
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,400
off when this young medium who's doing a reading already

1033
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,039
for a lady, suddenly turned to me. He says, I'm

1034
00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:48,199
now coming to the gentleman. I left, and I looked thought,

1035
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:50,400
oh my god, that's me. So I quickly got my

1036
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,480
recorder that I always taken me to these things and

1037
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:55,000
pressed it into record. So it's there for anybody that

1038
00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:57,840
really wants to listen. I've got the evidence on tape

1039
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,000
if you like. And he started talking about this lady

1040
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,880
called Agnes, and he goes, I've got a lady called

1041
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,320
Agnes for you, and I said, sorry, I don't know

1042
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,880
anyone called Agnes. So you're thinking this reading is not

1043
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:11,000
very good because he's got the first hit is wrong.

1044
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:13,039
I don't know one called Agnes. And I thought it

1045
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:15,800
could be the lady behind me maybe, and he goes, no,

1046
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,000
she's definitely saying she wants to connect with you, and

1047
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:22,119
she wants to talk about Morgan. And soon he said Morgan.

1048
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:24,519
I thought, oh my god, Morgan is the name my daughter.

1049
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,360
So I kind of sat up and went yeah. And

1050
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:29,800
she said she likes children, this is why she comes

1051
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,199
to visit Morgan a lot. And then she says, you've

1052
00:59:32,239 --> 00:59:35,280
got a brother, Phil, haven't you. Went, yeah, that's right,

1053
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,760
and she goes and Phil goes and checks on graveyards

1054
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:41,480
of family members and he's gone to visit her own grave.

1055
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,239
Speaker 3: That's all bloody hell.

1056
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,119
Speaker 2: And he was actually wanting me to bring up my

1057
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:47,960
brother's confirmness, but I never had my brother's phone number

1058
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,599
on my phone at that time, which is really just Maine.

1059
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,800
But he was that confident, you know that ring ing

1060
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,440
up now in front of everybody, did time confirm this?

1061
00:59:56,559 --> 00:59:58,079
So I kind of let the team down a little

1062
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:00,760
bit on that one. I'm afraid, but this becomes a

1063
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,119
cracker because he said, Agnes, who's married to Edward? And

1064
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:07,079
again I couldn't place Edward at all. I said, sorry,

1065
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:09,159
I don't know an Edward. But it was still the

1066
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:11,199
other facts. He was getting my daughter's name right, and

1067
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,480
also my brother's name, and then he went on to

1068
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:16,920
name two more of my brothers, Simon and Jason, which

1069
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,880
I thought was amazing. So then he said, now do

1070
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,920
you see that man over there by the door in

1071
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,960
the white shirt, and he was pointing back to the

1072
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,840
guy that was the guy that took the money on

1073
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,000
the door. He said, his name is Chris Hayes. And

1074
01:00:32,039 --> 01:00:34,199
then you're thinking, okay, why I mention that. But to me,

1075
01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:37,360
as soon as he said that, my mouth dropped because

1076
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,840
I knew someone by the name of Chris Hayes. And

1077
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,199
he said, and this is it. He says, I'm not

1078
01:00:43,239 --> 01:00:44,360
sure if I've got this right.

1079
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:45,079
Speaker 3: This is his words.

1080
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I've got this right, but let's

1081
01:00:47,079 --> 01:00:47,519
go for it.

1082
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 3: He said.

1083
01:00:48,039 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: He says, that man over there called Chris Hayes, Agnes,

1084
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,800
this spirit who's talking to him is telling me that

1085
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:58,800
your daughter Morgan is also connected to a Chris Hayes.

1086
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,599
And I said, yeah, that's absolutely right. She's been going

1087
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:03,400
out with the guy Chris Hades for the past two

1088
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:07,159
years now. And everyone clapped at that. Who's like Matt

1089
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,199
bang on evidence. And it's like the serendipity of having

1090
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:14,599
a guy called Chris Hayes over there on the door

1091
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,440
and my daughter known Chris Hayes. And then I kind

1092
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,760
of thought about it afterwards. I think, I know why

1093
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,119
they got me second. And they picked on me straight

1094
01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:25,880
away as soon as I sat down, because from their

1095
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,280
point of view, this was an opportunity not to be

1096
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,920
missed because they had the energy I suppose, in the

1097
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,639
early part of the seance, if you want to call

1098
01:01:33,639 --> 01:01:36,880
it a salanes or presentation to do it, and they

1099
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,639
could connect me with that Chris Hayes back to my daughter.

1100
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,159
It was a three way kind of connection. But then

1101
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:45,480
the old, the ultimate kind of proof came later on.

1102
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,880
Is the next day that I was talking to my Mum,

1103
01:01:48,039 --> 01:01:50,079
who's no longer with us on the phone, and I

1104
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,320
was saying, but who's Agnes And she goes, I don't

1105
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,800
know who Agnes is. So then she chatted to my

1106
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,840
auntie Sue and my dad's sister, and she said, I

1107
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,239
know who Agnes is. She goes, that's your Auntie Doris.

1108
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,320
But she never liked to use her real name of Agnes,

1109
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:07,760
so she always used her middle name of Doris. And

1110
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,599
so I grew up with this lady, known her as

1111
01:02:10,639 --> 01:02:13,400
Auntie Doris all my life until she died, but her

1112
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,840
real name was Agnes the whole time. Now, Auntie Doris

1113
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,679
was married to men who we called Uncle Ted Edward,

1114
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,199
which was the name of the spirit that they associated

1115
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,800
with this. So it's a massive bang on coin statist

1116
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,280
if you like. If you want to call it costace,

1117
01:02:28,519 --> 01:02:30,760
I prefer it to call it some sort of organizational

1118
01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:32,360
psychic event, if you like.

1119
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,599
Speaker 3: And as I've said before, you can't disprove a coincidence,

1120
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,760
and there's no there's no real cutoff point, there's no

1121
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,559
statistical ceiling above which you know people will stop using

1122
01:02:41,559 --> 01:02:45,840
the saying you stop using that argument because there's nothing

1123
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,480
physically possible in this world that is so unlikely. You

1124
01:02:48,519 --> 01:02:52,119
can say, well, that just cannot ever happen. But I personally,

1125
01:02:52,159 --> 01:02:54,199
you know, I would personally be very impressed with that

1126
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,480
if I am to. I've got I've got one more

1127
01:02:57,519 --> 01:03:00,400
question on mis Kate, and you might not want to answer,

1128
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,639
but the question is, have you personally ever had what

1129
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:12,840
you might call a mystical experience involving a celebrity.

1130
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,599
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a very very short answer, but no,

1131
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:19,519
not really. I mean, I've one of my one of

1132
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:26,199
my favorite pastimes is is visiting graves and cemeteries. So

1133
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,199
when I'm not you know, covering every possible surface and

1134
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:35,400
stacks of books about spiritualism and mediumship and psychic matters,

1135
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,360
I'm generally looking looking for dead people that are very

1136
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,920
firmly in one place. I'd have to look that far

1137
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,559
for them. And so I've I've been to a lot

1138
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:48,280
of crypts of royals in Europe and places like that,

1139
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,920
and I haven't ever had any experience that I'd say

1140
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,199
particularly mystical. You know, I haven't seen a long dead

1141
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,159
Kaiser stomp past me or anything. But I've being in

1142
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,719
a lot of the royal tombs beneath the Berlin Cathedral

1143
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:09,280
in particular, had a certain feeling that other royal tombs

1144
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,840
in many countries haven't had. There was a certain feeling

1145
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:17,239
of it sounds like a contradiction in terms, but a

1146
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:21,599
quiet stillness alongside a busyness. And I was there so early.

1147
01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:24,280
I was the only person any tourist in the tombs,

1148
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:28,280
and it felt very It was very busy, I suppose.

1149
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,880
But that's the closest I could get to having any

1150
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,079
kind of interaction with the celebrity spirit. I've had plenty

1151
01:04:35,079 --> 01:04:38,079
of strange experiences outside of that, but I hastened to

1152
01:04:38,119 --> 01:04:40,719
say that they were very much lay people. They were

1153
01:04:41,199 --> 01:04:43,920
they went egelon with the Netflix series.

1154
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,599
Speaker 3: Sadly not access interesting because very often a lot of

1155
01:04:48,639 --> 01:04:50,559
people do report that they report, well, I didn't see

1156
01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:52,199
anything or hear anything. That's just had a very strong

1157
01:04:52,239 --> 01:04:56,519
feeling what my brother and my dad thought felt when

1158
01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:59,719
my mother died. My brother and my dad both reported

1159
01:05:00,599 --> 01:05:04,039
a very strong sensation. They called it a religious experience

1160
01:05:05,159 --> 01:05:10,599
of presence. In this few days since the presence, thanks,

1161
01:05:10,639 --> 01:05:12,599
I mean, I can't think of anything else to say

1162
01:05:12,719 --> 01:05:16,679
except did you have a website or any Do you

1163
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:18,559
have a have you written your own book you want

1164
01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:21,840
to tell us about or anything else they're not that's

1165
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:23,800
coming out. Are your novel that's coming out? Yeah? You

1166
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:25,079
it's your first book ever.

1167
01:05:26,039 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 4: This is my first, my first book ever.

1168
01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:28,719
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1169
01:05:28,719 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 4: I've previously just been an magazine writer, really a journalist

1170
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,559
in that capacity, and Brittain academic stuff and various bits

1171
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:41,920
of journalism. But yes, I well, one thing at a time.

1172
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:46,320
I've run Burials and Beyond dot com since twenty seventeen,

1173
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,719
so that's a blog about life, death, weird bits in between.

1174
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,320
So there's little bits about spiritual matters, about history of spiritualism,

1175
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,920
weird victorian's curiosities, lots of graves, lots of churches because

1176
01:05:58,280 --> 01:05:59,920
that's where I spend most of my time. I'm not

1177
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:03,000
the most sociable of people, so there's a lot of

1178
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:06,840
a lot of dead people on there. But my I

1179
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:11,599
have a TV show coming out, a Haunted Homecoming series two,

1180
01:06:12,119 --> 01:06:14,960
which is with Jonathan Ross. That's coming out on the

1181
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,199
twentieth of December, so I'm officially festive programming me versus

1182
01:06:20,239 --> 01:06:20,840
the Snowman.

1183
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:24,639
Speaker 3: I did you just see that? Yeah, I didn't know

1184
01:06:24,679 --> 01:06:27,480
Jonathan was into that sort of thing. That's cool. His

1185
01:06:27,519 --> 01:06:28,159
wife was.

1186
01:06:30,119 --> 01:06:33,039
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, Jane did a brilliant series. I think it

1187
01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:34,880
was in the nineties.

1188
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 2: I've never watched it, but something that I saw reference

1189
01:06:38,039 --> 01:06:39,239
to it in a magazine somewhere.

1190
01:06:39,559 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 3: I know you used to be very much a skeptic

1191
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,280
because he was a big fan of James Randy.

1192
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,199
Speaker 4: I remember, oh, yes, yeah, we spoke a lot about he.

1193
01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:50,079
Speaker 2: Must have had a problem saying James Randy though Jaye Wandy.

1194
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:55,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, we overcame that fu but yeah, he's had a

1195
01:06:56,639 --> 01:07:00,639
It's no, we're not taking any liberties by saying Jonathan

1196
01:07:00,679 --> 01:07:03,199
has always believed in the paranormal. It's like now he

1197
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,000
is very firmly a skeptic, but he's always had an

1198
01:07:06,039 --> 01:07:11,920
interest in paranormal as an entertainment and as and he likes,

1199
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:14,960
you know, horror history and you know there's kind of

1200
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,639
stranger histories and folklore. Is very much into folk law.

1201
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,679
So he went in with an open mind. Now, I

1202
01:07:20,719 --> 01:07:23,639
was very fortunate enough to be part of the team

1203
01:07:23,679 --> 01:07:28,440
that took him round his old haunts the Pond in

1204
01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:33,679
East London and see if we could incite any experiences

1205
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,760
through paranormal investigation or through mediumship. Plenty of different things,

1206
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:43,679
but that's two parter and it's on really on twentieth

1207
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,239
and it's also on Discovery Plus from the same same

1208
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:52,880
point onwards. So that's fun. And yeah, it's I think

1209
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,199
it's fun. It's fun programming and everyone likes a bit

1210
01:07:55,199 --> 01:07:59,840
of a festive scream, I suppose. But my debut novel

1211
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,000
is out next May, but it's available for pre order now,

1212
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:09,280
and preorders really really help. It's called Bigotten, and I

1213
01:08:09,599 --> 01:08:12,800
basically say it's like it's a paranormal thriller. But if

1214
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,279
you've ever read any accounts of you know, Victorian seances

1215
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:20,920
where mediumship isn't as simple as here's a message from

1216
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:26,079
the afterlife, they're really extreme reports. They're almost like horror films. Sorry,

1217
01:08:26,199 --> 01:08:27,960
at the tail end of a chest infection, I've been

1218
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:32,359
fighting very cold copy for all hope.

1219
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:37,199
Speaker 2: So okay, let me just ask you a question. Are

1220
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:41,119
you an absolute Are you convinced that communication between the

1221
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:44,159
living dead is possible? Or do you think it's some

1222
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:45,199
sort of something else.

1223
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 4: Personally, at the most base level, yes, I believe it's possible.

1224
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,279
I've had too many experiences that have profoundly changed me

1225
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,439
for me to say absolutely not. I feel like that's

1226
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,439
that just i'd be lying. It's a lot easier to

1227
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,239
be very flat and skeptic and say all of it's nonsense.

1228
01:09:07,239 --> 01:09:09,520
So I'd say I'm a skeptical believer, but I'm coming

1229
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,760
from a background of I've had some extraordinary experiences that

1230
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,199
I've been chasing ever since, and I believe I've had

1231
01:09:17,239 --> 01:09:22,119
direct communication in very very small ways with loved ones

1232
01:09:22,159 --> 01:09:24,439
that have passed, and with all the spirits that I

1233
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,680
don't know that have passed. And as I'm sure we've

1234
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,720
all had been called every name onder the sun for

1235
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,439
believing such things. But once it's part of your life,

1236
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:38,239
and it's part of your whole belief system, it's it's

1237
01:09:38,239 --> 01:09:40,720
part of the fabric of your very being. So I'm

1238
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:45,039
very much a skeptical believer, but I think that's the

1239
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:45,880
healthiest way to be.

1240
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:51,279
Speaker 2: You believe, I've found the the ASSEP seriously strange confidence.

1241
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:53,520
I mean, I didn't know what to expect, but Ben

1242
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,439
told me about it, so I went along to it,

1243
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,079
and I kind of got the impression that most of

1244
01:09:59,079 --> 01:10:01,359
the people, I mean, I may have got a false

1245
01:10:01,359 --> 01:10:03,199
impression of it, but I got the impression that most

1246
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:06,720
of them were interested. But they're all mostly skeptical of

1247
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,279
the whole thing, and I thought, why why are they're

1248
01:10:09,279 --> 01:10:11,479
on stage tell us about it? Is they don't believe

1249
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:11,600
in it?

1250
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 3: I kind of I.

1251
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 2: Don't know what to make of that, But I mean,

1252
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,399
we spoke to Matt Arnold recently, and obviously he's coming

1253
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,520
from his Christian perspective, so he definitely believes in an

1254
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,079
afterlife and spirits, the dead and ghosts. He's just looking

1255
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:28,800
at it through the lens of of Christianity, which is

1256
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:29,680
a fair point, you know.

1257
01:10:30,079 --> 01:10:31,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I.

1258
01:10:31,079 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 2: Thought, you know that that came across as a very

1259
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,760
genuine kind of thing to me. But I kind of

1260
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,239
got the impression that the pair majority of them were

1261
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:41,800
coming in from from a skeptical point of view, the

1262
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,479
exception being the well, obviously yourself now you've told us

1263
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:49,399
about that. But the lady that was the involved in

1264
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:57,000
the Doddleston messages that was on the stage, yes, Debbie, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1265
01:10:57,119 --> 01:10:59,279
obviously she had that experience of the whole port guy's

1266
01:10:59,319 --> 01:11:02,199
thing and messages coming through her computer and things. Very

1267
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:04,760
interesting story. Now I actually cover that in a book

1268
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,880
as well, But yeah, whether that was true or not,

1269
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,000
I can't say, but it seemed to be very very interesting.

1270
01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1271
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:16,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a healthy mix between believers and

1272
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:20,239
skeptics as well, but I think there's far more of Certainly,

1273
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:22,159
I think it's far more of a skeptical edge, because

1274
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,800
having a skeptical ledge it's healthy, but it's also a

1275
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,840
safety net, and it's a safety net to ridicule. And

1276
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,520
I've done plenty of talks where I've spoken about my

1277
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:38,159
childhood experiences of living in a house with a poltergeist,

1278
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,880
and then immediately afterwards, any kind of credibility that you

1279
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:46,479
had in some people's minds just went out the window immediately.

1280
01:11:47,119 --> 01:11:49,199
As you know, as soon as you say I've had

1281
01:11:49,239 --> 01:11:53,039
these interactions with with a ghost with a spirit, then

1282
01:11:53,079 --> 01:11:56,159
you're a flat notter to many people. Whereas if you

1283
01:11:56,239 --> 01:11:59,760
framed that as I'm very skeptical, this is what happened

1284
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,000
to me. Let's try and dissect that and see if

1285
01:12:02,039 --> 01:12:04,199
I created it myself, so on and so forth, then

1286
01:12:04,199 --> 01:12:06,079
it's a bit safeer it. It feels like it's more

1287
01:12:06,119 --> 01:12:10,520
of a a comfortable discussion point. I suppose.

1288
01:12:11,319 --> 01:12:14,199
Speaker 3: Similarly, I like I liked, I like seriously strange because

1289
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:18,960
I'm even though I'm I think these phenomena are real,

1290
01:12:19,399 --> 01:12:20,840
and I've got I think there's good I've got good

1291
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,279
reasons for believing these phenomena are real. I'm I understand

1292
01:12:24,319 --> 01:12:25,880
there are a lot of people who don't believe they're real.

1293
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,680
Were still interested, and I like it, to be honest,

1294
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:34,600
I like to test my my beliefs against ascent because

1295
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:36,800
that's the where you find out an awful lot about

1296
01:12:37,159 --> 01:12:39,239
whether you're right or wrong. This is why I take

1297
01:12:39,279 --> 01:12:41,399
a keenest and the skeptical side of things and you

1298
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,279
and the good thing about seriously strange is you do

1299
01:12:43,359 --> 01:12:47,039
get that input which don't get like a probe. As

1300
01:12:47,119 --> 01:12:50,560
much as I loved the probe conferences, they were extremely credulous.

1301
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,600
You know, we have people like with Channey animal spirits

1302
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:56,680
and things like that, which I don't object to, but

1303
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,399
it's just i'd liked I liked it about the sides

1304
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:00,079
of the story.

1305
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,359
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's the sort of thing where you

1306
01:13:02,399 --> 01:13:04,680
can be objective, which is what I enjoy with the

1307
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:08,119
more extreme end of celebrity science and so forth, if

1308
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:11,000
you can. If you don't believe in something, that doesn't

1309
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,880
mean you can't be interested in it. So I might

1310
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:20,199
not necessarily believe that Elvis is chatting with people from Atlantis.

1311
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,600
But I want to know everything about those conversations because

1312
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:25,680
that says so much more about the people involved than

1313
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,000
it ever could about anything spectral. So there's always that

1314
01:13:29,039 --> 01:13:31,119
sort of funny relationship going on.

1315
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and well, if we go, I just want

1316
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,199
to mention just a bit of reference for the viewers

1317
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:40,800
or listeners that if you go to YouTube, there is

1318
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,600
a documentary the named Joe Power, whom Kate mentioned earlier

1319
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,800
being involved in this pap per view Saiance the Live

1320
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,000
a Pudlian. There's a documentary with which he did with

1321
01:13:51,039 --> 01:13:54,880
Darren Brown the Skeptic, which is interesting. It is interesting

1322
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,680
to watch to see whatever your beliefs are about about

1323
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:59,680
this thing. It's very interesting to want to do check

1324
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,920
that out. And of course sir Neil has this Neil

1325
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:07,000
let people know about your book. Yeah, I tell about you,

1326
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,159
but you've got a copy of it of you with

1327
01:14:08,199 --> 01:14:11,199
you not a hend I mean worris to say.

1328
01:14:11,239 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 2: So this is radio is called True Tales of the

1329
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:20,239
paranorl and it's published by Arctura's press Or Publishing, and

1330
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:24,119
that came out in October twenty twenty four, and then

1331
01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:26,479
next year with the same publisher. I'm coming out with

1332
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:30,039
another book, probably summer of next year, I think, called

1333
01:14:31,079 --> 01:14:35,920
Modern Unsolved Modern Mysteries, where I go through all kind

1334
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,600
of mysteries of the twentieth not all the mysteries, but

1335
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,000
some mysteries of the twentieth and twenty first century, covering

1336
01:14:42,039 --> 01:14:46,760
things like the Diatloff past incident and what else is it?

1337
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,439
The Oakville Blobs, which was strange, mysterious Gettinist blobs that

1338
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,640
dropped on people in the town of Oakville in Washington State.

1339
01:14:55,159 --> 01:14:57,279
But then I also gone to other mysteries like the UFO,

1340
01:14:57,359 --> 01:14:59,840
the Roswell mystery and cut stuff like that. So I

1341
01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:02,520
go and take territories where I'm kind of more interested in.

1342
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,479
They gave me about four or five titles they went

1343
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,560
to cover and then I could choose the rest.

1344
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,079
Speaker 3: Basically, there's the blobs falling down makes me think of

1345
01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:12,439
invasion of the body snatches. Well something either say to me, really,

1346
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:15,479
and I mean, of course, don't forget my own book here. Oh,

1347
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:17,119
I don't know if people see this or not, if

1348
01:15:17,159 --> 01:15:20,840
it's audio elic in A novel of Disclosure by myself,

1349
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:23,239
Ben and Len Jones, available for ten pounds it's all

1350
01:15:23,239 --> 01:15:26,319
good bookshops. Now it seems more pertinent now than ever.

1351
01:15:26,359 --> 01:15:30,239
Speaker 2: Ben, your book actually can well yeah.

1352
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 3: Well it could be. You know, I didn't know how

1353
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,880
hot that iron would be when I struck it, but

1354
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,840
you know, I was just lucky. But yeah, if it

1355
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,279
is very topical, more topical than I thought when I

1356
01:15:39,279 --> 01:15:43,600
wrote it back in twenty sixteen. So a big thank

1357
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,920
you to everyone who's listened or watched and or watched

1358
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,960
this program. Much appreciate that, of course, to our guest

1359
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,039
doctor Kate Cheryl, and of course my steamed co host

1360
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,600
Neil Ward. Thank you all of you. It's been a

1361
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,199
good show and it's been a good discussion. So to

1362
01:16:00,199 --> 01:16:02,119
talk to all of you, well, well with Neil, but

1363
01:16:02,319 --> 01:16:04,560
to talk to all of you again very soon, thank

1364
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,359
you very much. Thanks for having me.

1365
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,560
Speaker 2: Right and here we are in part two. Now you

1366
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:25,359
may recognize this intro.

1367
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:30,119
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now

1368
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:32,359
it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.

1369
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 2: And that is the voice of my daughter, Morgan geddis Ward,

1370
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,000
who kindly lent her vocal talent to the introduction of

1371
01:16:40,079 --> 01:16:43,039
each of our programs there and she expressed me over

1372
01:16:43,039 --> 01:16:45,399
the Christmas period when she came today that she's got

1373
01:16:45,399 --> 01:16:50,000
some aspirations to do voiceovers and similar things like that,

1374
01:16:50,359 --> 01:16:53,199
so she would like to have given it time over

1375
01:16:53,279 --> 01:16:56,600
to practice with me. So she said, could she interview me?

1376
01:16:57,159 --> 01:17:00,640
And so we discussed paranormal topics as a point of reference,

1377
01:17:01,079 --> 01:17:03,119
and so I thought i'd include that here as our

1378
01:17:03,239 --> 01:17:07,159
part too, to illustrate maybe a little bit about my

1379
01:17:07,239 --> 01:17:10,720
background and how I got into this whole field of activity.

1380
01:17:11,199 --> 01:17:13,600
So I hope you enjoy it, and thanks for joining

1381
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,479
us once again on the Paranoral Peep Show. Hi.

1382
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 6: My name is Morgan Gettisword, and today I'm going to

1383
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:25,920
be interviewing my dad, Neil Ward, because I am a

1384
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:32,319
follower and sort of of Paganism and I'm interested in spirituality.

1385
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:38,560
I have my own coven, and I I've grown up

1386
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:45,439
in a very with a very spiritual upbringing essentially and.

1387
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:47,560
Speaker 2: Laptop behind you.

1388
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:53,520
Speaker 6: Oh okay. My dad is a medium and has always

1389
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,439
been well. Both my parents have been always encouraging me

1390
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:03,239
and telling me about their spiritual experiences and it's fascinated

1391
01:18:03,279 --> 01:18:06,880
me from a young age and I'm just sort of

1392
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:11,560
going on that personal spiritual journey myself now. So I'm

1393
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:16,239
interested to hear how my dad discovered his own spirituality.

1394
01:18:17,039 --> 01:18:23,039
So Dad, I was just wondering what I did that matter.

1395
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:29,399
So you've just had your first book, True Tales are

1396
01:18:29,399 --> 01:18:33,359
the Paranormal, published in October this year, twenty twenty four,

1397
01:18:34,399 --> 01:18:37,560
And you've had an interest in the paranormal for many years?

1398
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:42,119
Can you begin by introducing yourself and telling me where

1399
01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:42,600
it all begain?

1400
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:48,119
Speaker 2: Okay, So our new award born in December nineteen sixty four, as.

1401
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:50,119
Speaker 6: Of course we need all that infod kay, But I'm

1402
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:54,079
now sixty. He's just celebrated his sixtieth this year, which

1403
01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:54,720
is why I'm here.

1404
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, how I began my interest in the paranorm?

1405
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:04,720
I was always interested in things like on TV Space,

1406
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:08,399
so a love of space and science fiction programs on

1407
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,840
the TV. So I grew up with programs like Thunderbirds,

1408
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:19,079
Joe nine, t Stingray, all the Jerry Andson shows UFO,

1409
01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:23,399
and later on came another show called Space nineteen ninety nine,

1410
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:26,479
and through all that was Star Trek. Three seasons of

1411
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,199
Star Trek from about sixty seven to sixty nine, I think,

1412
01:19:30,199 --> 01:19:33,199
and they were repeated throughout the nineteen seventies and I

1413
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:34,479
think they still repeated today.

1414
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,039
Speaker 6: I remember you watching Star Trek when I was little

1415
01:19:37,159 --> 01:19:37,560
as well.

1416
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, the original series and then later on the next generation.

1417
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 6: And I now have my t Elgray Hot.

1418
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,079
Speaker 3: Okay, so.

1419
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and there was Doctor Who as well, and

1420
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,239
then later on Blake seven, and of course in nineteen

1421
01:19:54,279 --> 01:19:57,159
seventy seven Star Wars came out. But prior to things

1422
01:19:57,199 --> 01:20:00,000
like Star Wars and Blake seven coming out and Space

1423
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:05,399
nineteen ninety nine, I was curious about ghosts and spirits

1424
01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:08,680
as well as the space stuff. And so, for instance,

1425
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,680
we just recently watched the Screwge film on Netflix or

1426
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:15,039
Amazon Prime, which I remember watching in nineteen seventy four

1427
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:17,880
at my film club to my junior school when I

1428
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,840
was about ten years old, and I loved anything to

1429
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,800
do with ghosts. I don't know why I had a

1430
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,119
fascination with ghosts and spirits. I remember reading a book

1431
01:20:26,159 --> 01:20:29,359
about the ghost dog of Killer cut as a novel.

1432
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:31,119
Because it had the word ghost in it, I thought

1433
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:33,720
it was going to be interesting. I wasn't scared of it.

1434
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,960
We also watched hammer horror films as kids, even though

1435
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:37,760
we shouldn't perhaps be more something of that that age

1436
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,760
with Dracula, Christopher Lee, that kind of stuff, vampires and stuff.

1437
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,920
So it had all that kind of interesting stuff about

1438
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:48,399
the magic, the occult, that kind of stuff, but also

1439
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:52,399
about science and space and aliens, did they really exist?

1440
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,279
Et cetera, et cetera. So I had a wide kind

1441
01:20:55,279 --> 01:21:00,880
of scope of into that alternative field, and consequently I

1442
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,479
grew up with an interest in making science fiction space

1443
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:07,680
models from scratch out of old washing up liquid bowls

1444
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,760
or shampoo bowls and bits of cardboard, and you hoop

1445
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,680
glue and bits of old ethics kits glued to them

1446
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,760
and spray paint with car spray paint. And I was

1447
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:20,960
actually featured on bbctv's program at the time, which is

1448
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,039
not on air anymore, called why Don't.

1449
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,279
Speaker 6: You It's even a famous for a young age.

1450
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:30,279
Speaker 2: Not famous now, just had an appearance, really, And I

1451
01:21:30,359 --> 01:21:35,600
remember reading various articles in things like the Readers Digest magazine,

1452
01:21:36,119 --> 01:21:39,279
which was given we didn't subscribe to it. We given

1453
01:21:39,319 --> 01:21:42,840
old back issues by someone, and I remember flicking through

1454
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,479
them sometimes and it would have I died on an

1455
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:49,319
operating table type of article, and I came back after

1456
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,720
five minutes, and I saw a mysterious light when I

1457
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,840
went out of my body, and that really intrigued me,

1458
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:58,720
and I thought, that's fascinating. So I had a linklin

1459
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,399
that there was something after death or something beyond. When

1460
01:22:01,399 --> 01:22:05,359
people died, they might have gone to this other place. Now,

1461
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:08,319
the Christians, I wasn't a Christian, although I had heard

1462
01:22:08,359 --> 01:22:09,840
of it, and I didn't really subscribe to it, but

1463
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,840
they had this idea of going to heaven. So thought, well,

1464
01:22:13,079 --> 01:22:14,600
what is this place. I don't really want to call

1465
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,000
it heaven because you expect to see God and angels

1466
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:19,800
there in Jesus, and I wasn't really happy if that

1467
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,960
was going to be heaven for me, So I didn't

1468
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,239
really believe there was a hell either, But I thought

1469
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:29,479
this thing seemed to be a consciousness, some sort of

1470
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,079
conscious being a big ball of light at the end

1471
01:22:32,119 --> 01:22:35,119
of a tunnel was a typical description. And this ball

1472
01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:37,800
of light or something there would ask you questions, are

1473
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,720
you satisfying with your life? Do you wish to go back?

1474
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,159
Or do you wish to step forward and continue into

1475
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,560
the great beyond or something? And these people then get

1476
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,319
later resuscitated after having a heart attack, and they'd tell

1477
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:52,520
of their experiences. So that became very fascinating for me.

1478
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,279
And at some point, either around that time or maybe

1479
01:22:55,359 --> 01:22:58,600
before then, I was really curious about things. And so

1480
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,680
I said to my mum, Mum, where was I before.

1481
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:02,119
Speaker 3: I was born?

1482
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 2: And she said, well, you didn't exist, And I said,

1483
01:23:05,119 --> 01:23:08,199
but I must have existed. Surely I must have existed.

1484
01:23:08,319 --> 01:23:12,479
I could not comprehend not existing, and I said it

1485
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,840
a kind of not an official task, but it became

1486
01:23:16,319 --> 01:23:18,039
a bit of a kind of drive within me to

1487
01:23:18,079 --> 01:23:20,680
try and understand, well, who was I? Where was I

1488
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:23,199
and where was I going? Maybe and some of those

1489
01:23:23,279 --> 01:23:25,920
questions that were in the Reason Digest magazine might provide

1490
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,960
some other clues to look for of where to get

1491
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:29,760
the answers from.

1492
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 6: I think I asked the same question actually to to

1493
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:36,720
my mum when I was little. I remember being in

1494
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:38,560
the in the back of the car and ask him.

1495
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:43,000
I'm like, so, where you know what? Where was I

1496
01:23:43,279 --> 01:23:47,159
before before I was here? And I can't remember, but

1497
01:23:47,239 --> 01:23:49,560
I was. I was at that just curious age where

1498
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,479
I was just asking questions about anything, you know, anything

1499
01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:56,359
and everything. I think I also asked her, so when

1500
01:23:56,399 --> 01:23:57,880
do we go back to normal? And she was like,

1501
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,800
what do you mean? And she said and I said,

1502
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,560
you know, we're in winter now or summer now, and

1503
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,239
I was like, so when do we get back to normal?

1504
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:09,680
And I hadn't comprehended that there was seasons, you know,

1505
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,239
so I thought this season was just like a thing

1506
01:24:12,279 --> 01:24:14,439
that happened and then you just go back to the

1507
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:16,800
normal period. And it twiged to me that suddenly we've

1508
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:18,479
been going through the seasons the whole time.

1509
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, through No one throws a big switch and

1510
01:24:21,319 --> 01:24:23,920
it all comes off. I think you said, similar to

1511
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,840
when there was an eclipse or pretty much in ninety

1512
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,319
five percent clips over the UK in July nineteen ninety

1513
01:24:30,399 --> 01:24:33,199
nine or June, maybe it was August, I can't remember.

1514
01:24:33,319 --> 01:24:35,720
In nineteen ninety nine, a lot of people went off

1515
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:39,079
down to the southwest to Cornwall and Devon to see

1516
01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:41,720
if they could see the fuller clips. But we stayed

1517
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,079
in our place in Buckinghamshire and I went out of

1518
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:47,920
the telescope and placed a piece of paper up the

1519
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:51,359
eyepiece so it'd project the sun onto the paper and

1520
01:24:51,399 --> 01:24:54,520
you could see the moon moving across the sun.

1521
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 3: Oh we did that, well, I did it.

1522
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,319
Speaker 2: Maybe didn't understand, but you sat with me and it

1523
01:25:01,359 --> 01:25:02,039
suddenly went.

1524
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 3: Really really cold.

1525
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,079
Speaker 6: I was about four years old.

1526
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:05,600
Speaker 2: And he says, Daddy, I don't like it. Can you

1527
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:08,479
make the sun come back? And I said, well, I

1528
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,439
can't make it come back, but it will come back,

1529
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:11,199
I promised you.

1530
01:25:12,119 --> 01:25:16,720
Speaker 6: I remember screaming and crying and being so scared that

1531
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,479
the light had gone out outside, you know, and I was.

1532
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,560
Speaker 3: Like, can you done it back on? That's right? Yeah,

1533
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:24,159
it's very rare to have an eclipse, isn't it.

1534
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I do remember it, and i'd actually been

1535
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:30,199
talking to a friend he remembers it as well, vaguely,

1536
01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:33,800
and because there's people my age who it happened to,

1537
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:35,800
all of us when we were very young, you know,

1538
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,159
So yeah, it's interesting.

1539
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1540
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 2: So things like that are fascinating eclipses and things, and

1541
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,960
they were herodly as great signs in the sky by

1542
01:25:46,039 --> 01:25:49,119
people of medieval times and beyond. It didn't really understand

1543
01:25:49,319 --> 01:25:54,039
the signs behind it. And also like just leading up

1544
01:25:54,079 --> 01:25:58,920
to the French Revolution, the peasants claimed that, you know,

1545
01:25:59,319 --> 01:26:02,479
falling rot would come from the sky and they were

1546
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:04,800
just laughed at by the aristocracy. But when the French

1547
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:09,039
Revolution happened, someone of science decided to look into it

1548
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:12,079
and found that the peasants weren't talking nonsense. Rocks did

1549
01:26:12,119 --> 01:26:14,399
fall from the sky and they were called meteorites, and

1550
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:19,000
that's how meteorites came to obvisually discovered. But because the

1551
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:20,600
peasants are out working in the fields the whole time,

1552
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,119
they'd see these things frequently.

1553
01:26:22,359 --> 01:26:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so how does that lead on to ghosts and spirit?

1554
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 6: Well, that was going to be my next question. That

1555
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:33,359
is really fascinating. So what occurred to me was that

1556
01:26:33,399 --> 01:26:37,560
there wasn't unless you remember, was there any particular kind

1557
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,800
of one instance where you were like, oh, ghosts that

1558
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,000
interests me or was it just that build up of

1559
01:26:43,319 --> 01:26:44,399
the pop culture.

1560
01:26:44,079 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 7: At the time.

1561
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 2: It was a slow boil build up because there was

1562
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:50,720
I saw one problem on the telly was quite spooky

1563
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:52,960
about a ghost of a nun and the nun was

1564
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,760
haunted this woman and she would make herself appear in

1565
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,640
a mirror and that's quite scary, so we kind of

1566
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,399
scared by it. But also I was intrigued by it.

1567
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:04,319
You know, how could you be a ghost? What was

1568
01:27:04,359 --> 01:27:09,479
it like being a ghost? And I didn't understand that

1569
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,159
there possibly could be a difference between the term ghost

1570
01:27:12,279 --> 01:27:15,119
and spirit at the time when I was youngster. I

1571
01:27:15,159 --> 01:27:16,399
thought they were interchangeable.

1572
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,319
Speaker 6: So can you explain actually what the difference?

1573
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,560
Speaker 2: Okay, A lot of people might give you different answer,

1574
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,279
so I'll tell the answer as I understand.

1575
01:27:23,399 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 6: Okay.

1576
01:27:24,119 --> 01:27:27,119
Speaker 2: So a spirit is what we presumably all have inside

1577
01:27:27,159 --> 01:27:29,479
of us. We are spirit in a material world, as

1578
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,720
the song goes, or something like the soul. Yes, so

1579
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:37,560
the soul or the spirit. And so when we shed

1580
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,920
our physical body and leave this world, the spirit, the

1581
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:44,760
driving essence of us continues on in some other form,

1582
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:49,920
a bit like a caterpillar changing into a butterfly a scenario.

1583
01:27:50,079 --> 01:27:53,720
It becomes a different form and continues. It doesn't caterpillars

1584
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,159
dropped away, but the butterfly that was the caterpillars now

1585
01:27:57,239 --> 01:28:00,680
saw it onto new heights. I speaking a metaphorical set. Okay,

1586
01:28:01,279 --> 01:28:05,119
So we're the spirit and we continue on, maybe in

1587
01:28:05,159 --> 01:28:07,880
a spirit world or another dimension, some other plane of

1588
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:11,119
existence where hopefully by the sounds that we do, meet

1589
01:28:11,159 --> 01:28:14,039
our relatives that have gone before us and our friends,

1590
01:28:14,359 --> 01:28:17,279
and maybe we're coming into contact with other people, and

1591
01:28:17,319 --> 01:28:21,119
you slowly go through different levels of existence development and

1592
01:28:21,359 --> 01:28:26,039
you go to higher planes of existence. Now a ghost

1593
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:30,880
is perhaps not a ghost appears from the signs of ghost.

1594
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:35,600
They appeared not to kind of see you. So people

1595
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:38,520
tend to see a ghost, and it's like looking at

1596
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:41,079
a video recording, like in the TV. You're watching a

1597
01:28:41,119 --> 01:28:43,680
film on the TV, the person and the TV. Apart

1598
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,199
from if it's a newsreader, of course, if it's a

1599
01:28:46,199 --> 01:28:48,079
film you're watching, they don't tend to look at the

1600
01:28:48,199 --> 01:28:51,520
camera and say hello, everybody out there. They interact in

1601
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,319
their environment, of their time frame, at their scenario of

1602
01:28:54,319 --> 01:28:58,039
what they're doing the film about and toward intents and

1603
01:28:58,039 --> 01:29:01,079
purposes you're observing them, can't observe.

1604
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 3: You that they're a film.

1605
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:04,520
Speaker 2: And I think it's the similar thing with ghosts is

1606
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:08,039
that the ghost can't observe you because it's a replay.

1607
01:29:08,159 --> 01:29:10,439
Some people suggest it's a repleaven action that happened a

1608
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:14,399
long time ago. There's something called the stone tape theory

1609
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:17,800
where they seem to think that ghosts are recordings on

1610
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,319
the atmosphere or recordings on the stone work that they

1611
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:23,119
might appear. And if it's an old castle and an

1612
01:29:23,119 --> 01:29:24,840
old Roman building or something like that.

1613
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:28,399
Speaker 6: How energy clings to places and you know we're all

1614
01:29:28,399 --> 01:29:29,319
made up of benage.

1615
01:29:29,399 --> 01:29:30,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And.

1616
01:29:30,359 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 2: Though it is it some sort of recording that's happening now.

1617
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:37,600
There's a case of a guy called Harry Martindale who

1618
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:40,399
in nineteen fifty two, he was a an apprentice plumber

1619
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:44,359
in York and he was working in the basement of

1620
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:48,520
this Chancellor's house in York, and they were renovating for

1621
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:52,560
English Heritage, and they were putting in things like boilers

1622
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,079
and radiators and stuff like that. So they had to

1623
01:29:55,159 --> 01:29:57,399
draw all these pipes, and he was tasked to go

1624
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,840
into the basement and he's about seventeen eight at the time,

1625
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:03,319
and he found a trench dug in the basement, which,

1626
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:06,680
unbeknown to him, was actually an archaeological trench that had

1627
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:09,560
been dug a few months before by archaeologists who had

1628
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,359
found what they thought was a Roman road running underneath

1629
01:30:12,399 --> 01:30:15,359
this building. And so he saw the trench and obviously

1630
01:30:15,359 --> 01:30:16,800
it hadn't been filled in with it because they were

1631
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:18,800
still working on it, and he thought it was a

1632
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:21,119
handy place to wedge his ladder in secure it. So

1633
01:30:21,159 --> 01:30:24,000
he wedged his ladder into this trench, climbed up against

1634
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,600
the one, and started drilling holes in the wall. After

1635
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,720
about four hours, he started to hear a strange horn

1636
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:31,800
like noise, and he thought that's a bit of a

1637
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:34,760
weird tune on the radio. It got louder and louder

1638
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:39,920
and louder, and eventually below him marched a Roman on

1639
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:42,479
a horse through the wall below his ladder. He was

1640
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:46,000
above the Roman because the ladder a Roman centurion, and

1641
01:30:46,039 --> 01:30:49,039
then followed by all these other Romans on horses or

1642
01:30:49,079 --> 01:30:53,239
walking onside the horses. And he was so shocked that

1643
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:56,680
he fell off his ladder backwards onto the ground in

1644
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:59,760
the basement, and he scurried over into the corner bavements

1645
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:03,479
hide away from these Roman soldiers who continue to march through. Now,

1646
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:07,800
as they marched through, he noticed that their legs appeared

1647
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:11,600
to be disappeared halfway through the floor. They were at

1648
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,119
a different height than the people that their legs were

1649
01:31:14,119 --> 01:31:15,000
sort of like there, but there are.

1650
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 3: A lower height.

1651
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:17,319
Speaker 2: But as soon as they got to the trench where

1652
01:31:17,359 --> 01:31:20,359
the treasure being, their legs appeared because they were at

1653
01:31:20,359 --> 01:31:23,720
the floor level of their own words.

1654
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,159
Speaker 6: And it was almost like a shadow. You know, you

1655
01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:28,159
wouldn't see certain parts of a shadow that maybe blocked.

1656
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 2: By all or yeah, right, so in that kind of sense,

1657
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:35,199
that's right. So so he said. He could see mud

1658
01:31:35,239 --> 01:31:39,439
splattered on their faces and clothes. They had green tunics

1659
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:44,479
on round shields, small daggers, and he saw their their unshaven.

1660
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:47,239
He looked like they were tired of being marching or

1661
01:31:47,239 --> 01:31:50,119
something like that. He could hear them talking even but

1662
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:52,800
he couldn't understand what they were talking about. And then

1663
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:54,720
the source of the noise, that was the horn noise.

1664
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:56,359
He saw that come through last, and that was a

1665
01:31:56,359 --> 01:31:59,960
man blowing a great big horn who was like the announcer.

1666
01:32:00,039 --> 01:32:03,920
And apparently in Roman legions and marches, when they're walking along,

1667
01:32:04,119 --> 01:32:06,079
you tend to blow the horn as you're approaching the

1668
01:32:06,119 --> 01:32:08,920
gates of your fortress and they open up the gates

1669
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,600
for you. And so this is what he was hearing.

1670
01:32:12,039 --> 01:32:12,600
Speaker 3: And so the.

1671
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:16,840
Speaker 2: Romans didn't see him. They were just enacting their own

1672
01:32:17,039 --> 01:32:20,960
scenarios their time frame. But somehow he was looking from

1673
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:24,079
the future back into the past. And so I think

1674
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:27,239
it wasn't a recording, because later on, about seven years later,

1675
01:32:27,239 --> 01:32:30,439
in the same building, these Roman ghosts were spotted again

1676
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,000
by the lady who was a caretaker with her dog.

1677
01:32:33,079 --> 01:32:36,399
Her dog observed from first barking down and selling she

1678
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:37,840
saw the Romans come through a bit. It was a

1679
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,960
different scenario. This time they're all coming through and they

1680
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,960
were asleep on their horses. They weren't walking and talking.

1681
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:45,760
They were all asleep on the horses, and their horses

1682
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,000
were carrying them back to wherever they had to go to.

1683
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:50,600
So in that sense, from my point of view, I

1684
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,439
don't believe it's a recording on the atmosphere, because otherwise

1685
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:57,520
they'd be playing the same thing. I think that what

1686
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:02,319
it was is that their peering into the past, and

1687
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:05,039
it's like, say, it's the winter of the seasons, get

1688
01:33:05,039 --> 01:33:07,880
back in seasons. Harry Martindale saw him in the winter

1689
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:12,279
of nineteen fifty two, like November. He could have been

1690
01:33:12,279 --> 01:33:18,399
looking back to November of eighty fifty five in their wintertime. Yeah,

1691
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,079
so this is why they had wetness on their face

1692
01:33:22,119 --> 01:33:25,000
from the mud, because it rains in the winter and

1693
01:33:25,039 --> 01:33:27,479
it might have been cold and damp and they're fed up,

1694
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:31,560
et cetera, et cetera. And then maybe the lady saw

1695
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,720
them in her winter of seven years later, but in

1696
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:39,159
the February and again they were covered in mud, but

1697
01:33:39,239 --> 01:33:42,279
this time they were asleep on their horses, so that

1698
01:33:42,399 --> 01:33:44,520
there was always going on a muddy road that hadn't

1699
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,439
been tarmacked or anything like that, and the rain had

1700
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:49,039
been pelting down on them. So I think that they'd

1701
01:33:49,039 --> 01:33:51,039
seen him in their own times. But if if Harry

1702
01:33:51,039 --> 01:33:53,039
Martinell happened to see them in the summer, and he

1703
01:33:53,119 --> 01:33:55,000
was working in the basement in July on a hot

1704
01:33:55,159 --> 01:33:58,159
July day, he might have seen the Roman soldiers coming

1705
01:33:58,159 --> 01:34:00,840
through fairly dry and clear, with no mud on them,

1706
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:02,880
because he's seen him in July fifty five.

1707
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:06,239
Speaker 3: AD. Yeah, my theory.

1708
01:34:06,359 --> 01:34:09,239
Speaker 2: Rather than a ghost of the recording, they're not alive

1709
01:34:09,359 --> 01:34:12,479
in the sense of like when you're watching a TV program,

1710
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:15,159
they appear to be alive, but they're just digital images.

1711
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,479
This could be some sort of recording or time frame

1712
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:22,800
that we're looking through, rather like one might look at

1713
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:26,079
an old newspaper see an image of an old photograph,

1714
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,359
but rather like in Harry Potter, you see the images

1715
01:34:29,399 --> 01:34:33,079
moving around. It's like watching an old film. But I

1716
01:34:33,119 --> 01:34:35,520
suspect they're watching through time in some way.

1717
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:41,720
Speaker 6: So can I ask, because obviously, I mean, I've heard

1718
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,560
of ghosts being almost like in a loop, you know,

1719
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:48,319
and as you say, like a recording. But then there's

1720
01:34:48,319 --> 01:34:54,800
also people experience ghosts interacting with them. You know, sometimes

1721
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:56,880
you might feel like a pull at your Yeah, that

1722
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,439
might be more of a spirit then, right, Okay, so.

1723
01:35:00,199 --> 01:35:05,840
Speaker 3: Go spirits interact, ghosts interact with each other because they're

1724
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:09,319
in their own time frame. Oh makes sense? Yeh think?

1725
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:15,199
Speaker 6: Okay. So that kinda leads on to a question. Have

1726
01:35:15,359 --> 01:35:20,600
you had any early sort of childhood or just any

1727
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:25,760
childhood spiritual or psychic experiences, or any experiences of ghost

1728
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:27,199
or spirits when you were a kid?

1729
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 2: Well, one of my first ghostly memories, if you want

1730
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:33,039
to call it ghostly memories, It always freaks out my

1731
01:35:33,079 --> 01:35:35,359
friend men and she likes me to keep telling this

1732
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:36,520
dog because it's spooky.

1733
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:38,079
Speaker 6: Am I going to get scared?

1734
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:39,159
Speaker 3: You might do?

1735
01:35:39,279 --> 01:35:39,560
Speaker 6: Oh no?

1736
01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:43,039
Speaker 2: In my beard dream Iana, when we all lived at

1737
01:35:43,039 --> 01:35:46,880
what we call the flats in Little child f On,

1738
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:49,079
there was these flats and we lived at the very

1739
01:35:49,119 --> 01:35:51,479
top of these flats, me and my brothers, and we

1740
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:55,239
all share the bedroom, and I remember we had thunderbirds wallpaper.

1741
01:35:55,520 --> 01:36:00,560
So this would be the.

1742
01:35:58,399 --> 01:35:59,760
Speaker 3: Middle to late sixties.

1743
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 2: I was born in sixty four, so this could be

1744
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:05,159
about sixty five, sixty six, sixty seven something that before

1745
01:36:05,359 --> 01:36:07,239
Phil was born who was born in sixty eight, So

1746
01:36:07,279 --> 01:36:09,960
it's got between somewhere between. It's got to be sixty five,

1747
01:36:10,119 --> 01:36:13,560
sixty six, sixty seven. Yeah, that's the year time we're about.

1748
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,319
And I remember waking up and I had two brothers

1749
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:18,680
in their beds beside me.

1750
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:20,720
Speaker 3: We had a white.

1751
01:36:21,319 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 2: Chester drawers over in the corner of the room, and

1752
01:36:26,359 --> 01:36:32,159
I remember a vague memory of my brothers screaming and crying,

1753
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:37,199
and they pulled the blankets over their heads, and there

1754
01:36:37,279 --> 01:36:39,359
was this Chester draws and it was rattling down.

1755
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 6: Oh god, I think.

1756
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:45,079
Speaker 2: Towards and it's coming towards me. Yeah, it's going past

1757
01:36:45,119 --> 01:36:48,119
my brothers. And I remember putting the blanket over my

1758
01:36:48,239 --> 01:36:50,159
head like my brothers. I thought this is a thing

1759
01:36:50,199 --> 01:36:53,159
to do. And I had a woolen blanket like it's knitted,

1760
01:36:53,159 --> 01:36:55,399
and I could still see through it coming towards Oh no,

1761
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:58,720
and it's still coming towards me. And I was and

1762
01:36:59,319 --> 01:37:03,119
next minute I found myself waking up. So perhaps it

1763
01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:04,760
was a dream, because I did say to my brother's

1764
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:06,319
years later, do you remember that? And meant no, So

1765
01:37:06,359 --> 01:37:07,199
I think it must have.

1766
01:37:07,159 --> 01:37:07,680
Speaker 3: Been a dream.

1767
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:09,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know.

1768
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 3: I think very real.

1769
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:14,399
Speaker 6: Sometimes they can be. I've certainly woken up from dreams

1770
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:18,439
and I thought it was real, and I've had to

1771
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,800
ask people like was that a dream or was that,

1772
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:26,800
you know, real? So was there anything that you experienced

1773
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:33,119
maybe later on that was you definitely feel wasn't a dream.

1774
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 3: Well, sometimes when I was half asleep, I interpret things

1775
01:37:38,119 --> 01:37:41,479
as I'm half asleep, and I think it's spooky.

1776
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:44,279
Speaker 6: I really went, we're just talking about ghost. So I

1777
01:37:44,319 --> 01:37:46,680
just felt something crawling over from what I arm. I

1778
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:47,880
looked and there's nothing there.

1779
01:37:48,399 --> 01:37:51,279
Speaker 3: Oh, they esteemed in the stories.

1780
01:37:52,319 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 2: And I remember this hand tapping me on my head

1781
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:01,239
and it said, Neil, I'm going to eat And that

1782
01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:04,760
really scared Neil. I'm going to eat it it tow.

1783
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 3: You on the head.

1784
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 2: I was probably about five or six, and I remember

1785
01:38:10,039 --> 01:38:12,960
going to school terrified. Somehow I hadn't been eaten, but

1786
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,199
I remember going to see Terrible and I told the

1787
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:18,159
friends I had at school, Oh, a monster came to

1788
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:20,079
me last night. He was going to eat me, and

1789
01:38:20,119 --> 01:38:20,960
he tapped me on the head.

1790
01:38:22,119 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 6: The sound of that isn't a monster, so it's roxy

1791
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:25,359
the dog.

1792
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 2: And I told my dad when I got him when

1793
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:29,560
he came in from work. That night that the monster

1794
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:30,880
was going to eat me. He says, oh, no, that

1795
01:38:31,039 --> 01:38:34,640
was me, And he said your window was open it

1796
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,359
was raining, so I came in to shut the window,

1797
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,479
and I tapped you on the head, saying, it's all right, Neil,

1798
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:41,279
it's only me, and he tapped me on the head.

1799
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,399
But I was half sleeping in my dream state, Okay,

1800
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:46,399
I suddenly changed it into a monster.

1801
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, you see, that's interesting. What about any experiences when

1802
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,000
you were a bit older that one't sort of dream

1803
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:57,840
related at all?

1804
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 3: You mean, have I seen a ghost? Yes?

1805
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I haven't really. Yeah, I haven't seen these

1806
01:39:04,039 --> 01:39:06,239
spirits or ghosts or anything like that.

1807
01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:11,039
Speaker 6: So what keeps your faith in them? Since you've written

1808
01:39:11,039 --> 01:39:12,319
a story and blow box?

1809
01:39:13,399 --> 01:39:16,119
Speaker 3: A lady called Doris Stokes came on the scene in

1810
01:39:16,159 --> 01:39:19,520
the late seventies, well the mid seventies to late seventies,

1811
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:22,279
and I was coming out about twelve or thirteen by

1812
01:39:22,319 --> 01:39:25,199
that time, and she used to appear on television and

1813
01:39:25,239 --> 01:39:28,119
she was doing this thing called mediumship, which is her

1814
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:30,680
claiming to have the ability that somehow she could hear

1815
01:39:31,199 --> 01:39:34,119
spirits talking to her and she would relate what the

1816
01:39:34,119 --> 01:39:36,199
spirits were saying to the people in the room because

1817
01:39:36,199 --> 01:39:40,359
it was their relatives from the other side. And I

1818
01:39:40,399 --> 01:39:42,159
was fascinated by that, and so I went and bought

1819
01:39:42,199 --> 01:39:44,319
some of her books. As time went on, I think

1820
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,319
me and my mum maybe my brother read them.

1821
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:50,159
Speaker 2: And she had Voices in My Ear More Voices in

1822
01:39:50,159 --> 01:39:53,720
My Ear and other books like that, and she described

1823
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:57,439
how these things went. And then as time rolled around,

1824
01:39:57,640 --> 01:39:59,520
I remember there was a premo and I still got

1825
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:02,159
our fan on DVD from enough to get on DVD,

1826
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,119
and it was Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World. And this

1827
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:09,319
would be about nineteen eighty or eighty one, I can't remember.

1828
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:12,279
I was just coming up to about fifteen or sixteen then,

1829
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:16,560
and it was a probab about the mysteries and stuff,

1830
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:20,960
and he covered mediums and life after death. It was

1831
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:24,640
a fascinating story in there. As they interviewed one lady

1832
01:40:24,720 --> 01:40:27,920
she's obviously long since passed away now, being about forty

1833
01:40:28,039 --> 01:40:35,199
five years ago whatever. She said that her nephew, I

1834
01:40:35,199 --> 01:40:37,520
think they all lived, and all of her family had.

1835
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:40,079
Most of her family had emigrated to South Africa at

1836
01:40:40,119 --> 01:40:43,199
the time and she remained back in England, but her

1837
01:40:43,239 --> 01:40:47,119
nephew had got killed in the Second World War and

1838
01:40:47,239 --> 01:40:49,359
he was in a tank or something, and I think

1839
01:40:49,359 --> 01:40:52,319
his name was Owen. And one day she said she

1840
01:40:52,359 --> 01:40:55,680
was at home and Owen, her nephew, after he had died,

1841
01:40:56,600 --> 01:40:59,560
appeared to her in a blaze of little golden.

1842
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:00,600
Speaker 3: Sparkly life. Wow.

1843
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:04,039
Speaker 2: And he was there for a minute and she couldn't

1844
01:41:04,039 --> 01:41:08,920
believe it. And he was saying, tell mom, I'm all right,

1845
01:41:09,159 --> 01:41:13,680
I'm okay, and said a few other things. But she said,

1846
01:41:14,279 --> 01:41:16,920
but I need proof. I need proof. She's not going

1847
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,279
to believe me. I need proof. So she goes with that.

1848
01:41:21,039 --> 01:41:25,479
He put his hand in his jacket. I think Jennie

1849
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:28,199
Saw took off him. I'm not quite sure. And he

1850
01:41:28,279 --> 01:41:32,920
took out she says, a beautiful orchid flower. Absolutely's standing.

1851
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:34,920
And she goes the room filled with radiance. As soon

1852
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:36,760
as this flower came out, and the smell and everything,

1853
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:39,760
she gets it. And she said, he then put the

1854
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:42,520
flower back in his jacket like that, and then he

1855
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:44,760
took it back out again, and he put it back

1856
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,640
in his jacket again, and then he took it out again, right,

1857
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:50,720
but like a strange thing, right, And then he said,

1858
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:55,039
tell mom, table mountain And she goes. When that he

1859
01:41:55,159 --> 01:41:59,159
just vanished completely away. Oh, and so she wrote to

1860
01:41:59,199 --> 01:42:03,920
her sister because it was our nephew, remember. And it

1861
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:08,720
turned out that Owen, before he died, had gone up

1862
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:14,159
table Mountain in Africa, Tabletop Mountain, South Africa. Yeah, he'd

1863
01:42:14,199 --> 01:42:17,760
gone up there, and apparently it was forbidden to people

1864
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:21,079
to pick orchids from up there, and if you did,

1865
01:42:21,159 --> 01:42:25,760
you risked imprisonment. But he stole a beautiful blue orchid,

1866
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:29,079
oh my goodness. And the only person he told was

1867
01:42:29,079 --> 01:42:32,800
his mum, And he had the orchid under his jacket

1868
01:42:33,079 --> 01:42:36,000
in his lifetime, and he took the jack the thing

1869
01:42:36,039 --> 01:42:38,479
out and showed the flower to his mum. And then

1870
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:40,159
he thought he heard someone coming up the darm pass.

1871
01:42:40,199 --> 01:42:42,479
He quickly hid in his jacket again. So he was

1872
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:46,159
repeating that his arm she and then he said, tell

1873
01:42:46,199 --> 01:42:48,560
mon tableman. And she would understood exactly what all that

1874
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:51,039
meant once it was explained to her what he was doing.

1875
01:42:51,319 --> 01:42:55,119
Speaker 6: And was there his actual jacket in real life with

1876
01:42:55,159 --> 01:42:56,079
this orchid in all?

1877
01:42:56,079 --> 01:42:58,039
Speaker 2: I don't like that. I mean that was a memory

1878
01:42:58,039 --> 01:43:00,399
of it. I mean the jacket might have you know,

1879
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:02,000
it might have been in the family. I don't know

1880
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:03,239
what happened to the actual orkid.

1881
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:05,600
Speaker 6: Be interesting to see if they found.

1882
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 2: The actual orkid. Yeah, I'm sure sure the mother probably

1883
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:10,680
kept the orchid, you know, because he had bit it

1884
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:13,359
and said some world wall. I think we better go

1885
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:13,960
Missy more.

1886
01:43:14,119 --> 01:43:14,239
Speaker 4: Oh.

1887
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 6: One of the main questions I was going to ask.

1888
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:17,760
Speaker 3: Okay, come on, one more question.

1889
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 6: So thank you for telling me about your experiences. That's

1890
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:27,000
really interesting and obviously it's interesting to hear, you know,

1891
01:43:28,159 --> 01:43:33,000
almost the difference between experiences that people might think, sorry,

1892
01:43:33,239 --> 01:43:39,920
people experience start again. It's interesting to hear experiences that

1893
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:43,000
people might think a ghosts, like when you were saying

1894
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:47,279
you felt the hand on your head and it was

1895
01:43:47,279 --> 01:43:50,119
your dad, and then you had a dream and you

1896
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:51,920
thought it was real and your brother saw it, but

1897
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:55,880
then you know it was probably a dream. And then

1898
01:43:56,279 --> 01:44:01,479
obviously the woman whose son came through, Yeah, what was

1899
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:02,640
that the aunt.

1900
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:05,199
Speaker 3: Well it was she was the auntie and it was

1901
01:44:05,239 --> 01:44:06,520
her nephew that came through.

1902
01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:10,239
Speaker 6: Right, the woman whose nephew that came through. Yeah, And

1903
01:44:10,279 --> 01:44:12,520
that was a provable thing, you know that that was

1904
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:14,279
information that could have improved.

1905
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:14,319
Speaker 3: In the PAMI.

1906
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:16,039
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1907
01:44:16,079 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 6: So what I'm interested in is, I know you're a

1908
01:44:21,079 --> 01:44:25,079
medium yourself and you regularly go to a psychic circle

1909
01:44:25,239 --> 01:44:27,119
and to was it a.

1910
01:44:27,119 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 2: Psychic Yeah, psychic development, psychic.

1911
01:44:29,359 --> 01:44:33,199
Speaker 6: Development circle, and is that the same as the spiritualist church.

1912
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:38,279
Speaker 2: Psychic developing circle is often affiliated to spirituist churches, and

1913
01:44:38,359 --> 01:44:40,880
so the people that go to the local spiritist church

1914
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:45,279
tend to start the psychic developing circles. That's how I

1915
01:44:45,319 --> 01:44:47,800
got into it. So how I got into my very

1916
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:51,359
first psychic developing circle and arnts Bridge was I read

1917
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:54,600
in the local newspaper. I'd already been to I think

1918
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:57,039
one Spiritish church before then. I was taken there by

1919
01:44:57,159 --> 01:45:01,640
my step grandfather who was all also into spiritualism, and

1920
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:03,119
he took me to one and I was kind of

1921
01:45:03,159 --> 01:45:07,119
interested in it. Spirituallym is the official religion of people

1922
01:45:07,199 --> 01:45:10,600
that believe in life after death and communication with the afterlife.

1923
01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:13,920
That had the official religion started by the Fox sisters

1924
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:20,279
in America who were getting wraps and knocks on their

1925
01:45:20,319 --> 01:45:23,079
door from a spirit in their house when they were younger.

1926
01:45:23,159 --> 01:45:24,800
But anyway, that has had a completely odd story and

1927
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:27,119
you could read about it in my book Who Tales

1928
01:45:27,119 --> 01:45:31,800
of the Paranorm on Amazon. Yeah. Yeah, So basically I've

1929
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:33,720
read in the paper that there was this place called

1930
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:38,479
ux Spiritualist Association. So I phoned up the guy and

1931
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:40,560
he said, yeah, come along for a meeting or our

1932
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:43,920
Thursday night in their civic hall. They went along there

1933
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:46,000
and I explained to he was and they said, oh yeah, fine,

1934
01:45:46,039 --> 01:45:46,560
take a seat.

1935
01:45:47,039 --> 01:45:49,279
Speaker 3: And I'd go there every Thursday and they'd have different

1936
01:45:49,279 --> 01:45:51,680
mediums there, and it's all the interesting stuff in the mediums.

1937
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:54,399
Speaker 2: It wasn't scary, it wasn't scared. There's nothing spooky happening.

1938
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:56,880
Just a medium would give messages to the people in

1939
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:59,399
the room. Sometimes I got a message, sometimes I didn't.

1940
01:46:00,119 --> 01:46:03,960
And and anyway, one of the means I can't remember

1941
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:06,159
how far in from the point of me going. The

1942
01:46:06,199 --> 01:46:09,039
man who ran it said, oh, we're going to be

1943
01:46:09,279 --> 01:46:13,960
starting up our psychic developing circle soon, so anyone that's

1944
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:17,119
interested in joining a psychic developing circle please come and

1945
01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:20,680
put your name now. Now, I, by this time, because

1946
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:24,039
I've watched the Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World program, had found

1947
01:46:24,079 --> 01:46:26,920
out about the Spiritualist Association of Great Britain, where they

1948
01:46:27,279 --> 01:46:31,039
did demonstrations of clairvoyance or mediumship, and they also gave

1949
01:46:31,039 --> 01:46:33,520
you readings. And that was in London, and so I

1950
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:35,079
found out about it and I went there on the

1951
01:46:35,119 --> 01:46:37,920
train because by this time I was working, and I'd

1952
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:40,960
go there on the train every other Saturday. It's fascinating

1953
01:46:41,399 --> 01:46:44,199
and I'd get readings from different mediums. I'll pay them money,

1954
01:46:44,359 --> 01:46:46,119
but many of them held, by the way, do you

1955
01:46:46,119 --> 01:46:49,199
know that you can do this? I what me do this?

1956
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:52,680
I never believed it, So I thought, I haven't seen

1957
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,520
any ghosts or heard voices.

1958
01:46:54,199 --> 01:46:55,239
Speaker 3: Or anything like that.

1959
01:46:55,760 --> 01:47:00,800
Speaker 2: So this opportunity to join the psychics developing circle at

1960
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:03,760
the Oxfridge Spirituals Association came up, and I thought, well,

1961
01:47:03,800 --> 01:47:05,600
I'll go for it. See if I do have any

1962
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:10,039
powers or something. So I went to it that evening

1963
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:15,159
a few unions away, a few weeks away, and a

1964
01:47:15,239 --> 01:47:17,560
lady called Anne ran it and she was like the

1965
01:47:17,640 --> 01:47:21,319
chief medium and we would have to do meditations and

1966
01:47:21,359 --> 01:47:23,800
then we'd have to practice doing readings on the people.

1967
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:25,920
And there's about five or six other people that I

1968
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:30,520
can't remember their names now, and I remember starting to

1969
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:34,880
get information about people. And the guy Eric who was

1970
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:40,119
the Rand Spiritualist Association, sorry that the ox Fridge Spiritualist group.

1971
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,279
He was there as well, who was one that announced

1972
01:47:43,319 --> 01:47:45,840
the circle okay, and we all had to kind of

1973
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,520
meditate on the persons sitting opposite let's to see if

1974
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:50,159
we could get our relations Yeah.

1975
01:47:50,159 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 6: The dog also as a co host on this podcast.

1976
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 2: So so basically she's doing the spooky sounds.

1977
01:47:58,119 --> 01:48:02,359
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, she's adding there the moaning monk, the vibes.

1978
01:48:03,199 --> 01:48:05,600
Speaker 2: So I went into a meditation, and I'm not very

1979
01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:08,720
good at meditation, but I concentrated on this bloke, Eric,

1980
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:12,119
who was sitting ahead of me. And as I started

1981
01:48:12,159 --> 01:48:15,199
to almost drift off into almost like a sleep, I

1982
01:48:15,279 --> 01:48:19,000
heard of Cockney, a distinct Cockney voice in my mind,

1983
01:48:19,159 --> 01:48:21,239
like you would hear in a dream someone talks to you.

1984
01:48:22,119 --> 01:48:23,880
So it wasn't a physical voice, but it was in

1985
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:26,239
my head like telepathy, and it.

1986
01:48:26,279 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 7: Said, tell him he's got something wrong with his waterworks.

1987
01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:35,039
And I thought, I thought, baddy, hell, where did that

1988
01:48:35,079 --> 01:48:37,279
come water works?

1989
01:48:37,319 --> 01:48:41,560
Speaker 2: It was like a cockney taxi driver. I saw criche.

1990
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:44,880
So I'd heard about mediums wrapping up messages where they

1991
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:47,279
don't tell the whole thing for fear of embarrassing you

1992
01:48:47,319 --> 01:48:50,000
in front of other people, and because he might have

1993
01:48:50,039 --> 01:48:52,279
had trouble with his water works, I didn't want to

1994
01:48:52,279 --> 01:48:54,279
sort of sell it in front of all these other ladies, right,

1995
01:48:55,239 --> 01:48:56,800
So I just said to him, and I was young

1996
01:48:56,840 --> 01:48:58,960
at the times, I really didn't know how to rephrase it.

1997
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:01,520
I said, oh, I understand you might be seeing a

1998
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:03,319
doctor about a small complaint.

1999
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 3: And that's all. I mean, loads of.

2000
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:07,039
Speaker 2: People go to document and he goes, yes, yes, you're right,

2001
01:49:07,079 --> 01:49:09,359
I am seeing to about a small complaint. Now, if

2002
01:49:09,359 --> 01:49:11,119
i'd actually been a bit more students said lot, I've

2003
01:49:11,119 --> 01:49:13,600
got a cockney guy that came through, tacking him on

2004
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:16,399
with a cockney accent, he might have said, yes I do,

2005
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:22,560
And I said, he's talking about bladder issues here, you know,

2006
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:25,560
being polite, can you take that? But I said, he

2007
01:49:25,640 --> 01:49:27,880
said the word water works. You know I would have

2008
01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:28,359
said it like that.

2009
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:29,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and oh yeah.

2010
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 2: Now my friend Steve, who was ten years older than me,

2011
01:49:33,720 --> 01:49:36,279
he said, oh, it's probably his prostate and went, what,

2012
01:49:37,079 --> 01:49:39,960
I didn't understand what the prostate was or anything.

2013
01:49:40,279 --> 01:49:42,079
Speaker 6: A little bit more awareness about this.

2014
01:49:42,159 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he said and he said, I mean this

2015
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:46,560
would be about nineteen eighty seven or eighty eight, I

2016
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:49,039
think it was. He said that, you know, men get

2017
01:49:49,079 --> 01:49:50,840
prostate problems. It makes them have to go to the

2018
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:54,039
loo a lot more, you see. So I said, oh right,

2019
01:49:54,119 --> 01:49:57,000
I didn't know that, and this guy was probably late

2020
01:49:57,079 --> 01:49:58,359
sixties at the time.

2021
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:01,199
Speaker 3: So it was kind of true. I think, what happened.

2022
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 2: I've got that message and he confirmed it, although I

2023
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:05,920
wish I'd given it in a much more accurate way.

2024
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:09,119
So I was gobsmacked. I think that I got this

2025
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,800
power from somewhere because I never thought I could. But

2026
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:14,239
it just shows that you develop it. You meditate and

2027
01:50:14,279 --> 01:50:16,199
you start to hear these voices and you have to

2028
01:50:16,199 --> 01:50:19,359
start to learn discern what is your thoughts and what

2029
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:20,199
is their thoughts.

2030
01:50:20,600 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 6: I think that's what I struggle with as well. I

2031
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:27,359
mean I read oracle cards and tarot cards, but I

2032
01:50:27,399 --> 01:50:29,359
find it much easier to do a reading for other

2033
01:50:29,399 --> 01:50:32,800
people than it is myself, because I think when it's myself,

2034
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:35,520
I struggle to know. Was that just what I want

2035
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:35,800
to know?

2036
01:50:36,399 --> 01:50:37,039
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah?

2037
01:50:37,079 --> 01:50:39,359
Speaker 2: Well, for faults, when you get the thoughts from spirit,

2038
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:42,880
they tend to be outside of your mind in a sense.

2039
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:47,119
So I remember doing I'd gone to do a mediumship

2040
01:50:47,159 --> 01:50:51,560
workshop in Hertfordshire at some point and the end was

2041
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:54,239
all asked to do reading. So I got up and

2042
01:50:54,279 --> 01:50:56,319
I sort of said to the lady very back. I

2043
01:50:56,319 --> 01:50:58,319
didn't know I'd started just talking to her, and I said,

2044
01:50:58,359 --> 01:51:00,399
I think I've got something here with you. I feel

2045
01:51:00,399 --> 01:51:03,039
like she's a grandmother. Blah blah blah blah. And I

2046
01:51:03,039 --> 01:51:05,399
felt that this spirit was to my right. You get

2047
01:51:05,399 --> 01:51:08,720
a sense that sometimes you're right, sometimes you were left.

2048
01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:11,039
They're not generally in the middle. They can be, but

2049
01:51:11,359 --> 01:51:13,079
more if not, they feel that they're on the right

2050
01:51:13,159 --> 01:51:15,079
or the left. And that seems to be a common

2051
01:51:15,079 --> 01:51:18,960
thing talking to other mediums, you see and so and

2052
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:21,000
as I was talking to us, was giving this information.

2053
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:24,680
But out in front of me like a meteor way,

2054
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:29,319
there wasn't physically in the room. I saw the word Sainsbury's,

2055
01:51:30,039 --> 01:51:33,760
the logo of Sainsbury's as it's written orange, float in

2056
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:36,399
front of me. There wasn't physically there in the room.

2057
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:39,319
It was like in my mind's eye, almost as I'm

2058
01:51:39,319 --> 01:51:42,800
having awakened dream. But I saw the word Sainsbury's float

2059
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:45,760
across in front of me. Yeah, I was talking. Oh,

2060
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,079
so the word Sainsbury's has been put in my mind

2061
01:51:48,159 --> 01:51:50,920
visually the logo, but nothing was said about it is

2062
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:53,720
just Sainsbury's. So I had to think, well, this lady

2063
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:57,039
has connected Sainsbury's somewhere, and so I said, now, look,

2064
01:51:57,079 --> 01:51:59,159
I don't know if you work there. No, I didn't

2065
01:51:59,159 --> 01:52:00,680
say that. I said, I don't eat you like shopping

2066
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:03,279
there if it's your favorite shop or anything, but are

2067
01:52:03,319 --> 01:52:06,520
you connected anyway? I've got the word Sainsbury's with you.

2068
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:10,640
And she went, she goes, that's where I work, she said,

2069
01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:13,560
So she worked at Sainsbruings. I was told people that

2070
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:15,039
work at Sainsbruys, Yes, you've.

2071
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:17,199
Speaker 6: Got other things as well. I remember something to do

2072
01:52:17,239 --> 01:52:18,640
with a guy that was in France.

2073
01:52:19,279 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 2: Yes, So that was more later on. And that was

2074
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:24,840
in Weymouth and I was doing a reading at the

2075
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:28,520
what was called the Moose Lodge Spiritualist Church back in

2076
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,520
about twenty twenty, I think it was before the pandemic.

2077
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:36,600
Speaker 3: And I was doing a reading one lady.

2078
01:52:36,359 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: Talking about a dog or something, I can't remember what

2079
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:42,359
it was now, and then I suddenly got the voice

2080
01:52:42,399 --> 01:52:45,039
in my head or the words disappear in my head

2081
01:52:45,319 --> 01:52:50,039
Colin France, just like that, right, And I went, oh,

2082
01:52:50,520 --> 01:52:52,880
So I said, can you take the name Colin and

2083
01:52:53,199 --> 01:52:55,880
possibly the country of France, but it goes to be

2084
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:59,960
the surname of France and she went, no, sorry, when

2085
01:53:00,159 --> 01:53:00,840
are right?

2086
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 3: Okay?

2087
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:03,800
Speaker 2: So I thought, well I failed.

2088
01:53:04,199 --> 01:53:05,319
Speaker 3: So what you do? Then?

2089
01:53:05,359 --> 01:53:07,359
Speaker 2: You ask other people? Is there anybody else in the

2090
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:11,279
room that can take the name Colin and France? I said,

2091
01:53:11,399 --> 01:53:13,199
I don't know whether it's a surname of France or

2092
01:53:13,239 --> 01:53:16,359
a country of France. And no one put their hand up.

2093
01:53:16,399 --> 01:53:20,600
Do you think a shit? But then someone did this,

2094
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:22,960
This man tentatively put his hand up and he says,

2095
01:53:23,319 --> 01:53:26,680
we can take the name Colin and the country of France.

2096
01:53:27,159 --> 01:53:29,039
I said, can you? He goes yeah. I said, is

2097
01:53:29,039 --> 01:53:32,039
it the country not? It's the country of France. And

2098
01:53:32,079 --> 01:53:35,119
as soon as I started, I started to get information

2099
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:36,439
and I knew that I was with them.

2100
01:53:36,319 --> 01:53:37,439
Speaker 6: And you've got that link.

2101
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:38,560
Speaker 3: The link came.

2102
01:53:38,359 --> 01:53:40,760
Speaker 2: Through and it became strong. As soon as he started talking,

2103
01:53:41,199 --> 01:53:43,960
it opened up some sort of connection with this Colin

2104
01:53:44,840 --> 01:53:47,319
and I started to get the not the words. It

2105
01:53:47,399 --> 01:53:50,439
was more of an idea popping into my head. Holiday

2106
01:53:51,119 --> 01:53:55,880
not holiday, holiday not holiday, and that's like, what does

2107
01:53:55,920 --> 01:54:00,479
that mean? That's very confusing, And so I said, I said,

2108
01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:03,920
I've got something to do that you have something to

2109
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:07,239
do with It wasn't on holiday in France, But I'm

2110
01:54:07,279 --> 01:54:11,359
getting the word holidays with him.

2111
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 3: They said, yeah, that's right.

2112
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:15,199
Speaker 2: He wasn't on holiday, but he worked on like a

2113
01:54:15,239 --> 01:54:19,800
holiday camp there and he ran holiday accommodation.

2114
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:22,640
Speaker 6: Interesting, so it was holiday.

2115
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 2: Note and that was how they got it through it. Now,

2116
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:26,720
a lot of people that skeptic say said, why don't

2117
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:28,479
you say, my name is Colin, I work in France

2118
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:29,960
and I worked on a holiday camp, and this is

2119
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:32,840
my why can't they do it? But it's the equivalent

2120
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:36,319
of you know, this is words and messages that are

2121
01:54:36,359 --> 01:54:40,520
coming through a different dimension, and so what happens they

2122
01:54:40,520 --> 01:54:42,439
have to try and send it through and the easiest

2123
01:54:42,439 --> 01:54:45,479
way possible. So the analogy I give imagine before we

2124
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,920
had mobile phones and telephones and things like that. You know,

2125
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:51,520
if you're Adgine a Native American Indian, they used to

2126
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,680
give smoke signals across from one mountain to another under

2127
01:54:54,720 --> 01:54:56,720
a blanket light the leaves and the smoke would come

2128
01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:58,600
up there and put the blanket and keep smoke down there.

2129
01:54:59,079 --> 01:55:03,600
You know, two puffers means your tea's ready, or one

2130
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:06,039
puff of smoke means no, it was not ready yet,

2131
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,600
or three puff of smoke means come now you're late

2132
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,920
something like that, although he's so in a sense, they

2133
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:14,439
were getting a symbolic message and they would learn to

2134
01:55:14,479 --> 01:55:15,439
interpret those things.

2135
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:16,039
Speaker 3: You see.

2136
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:20,399
Speaker 2: Now, I've spoken to a famous meeting called Colin No sorry,

2137
01:55:20,399 --> 01:55:23,680
Tony Stockwell, who he's been on TV and stage and

2138
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:25,840
that sort of thing. And he gave a reading for

2139
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,479
a friend of mine I knew, and he gave a

2140
01:55:28,520 --> 01:55:31,319
reading and he said, oh, and I knew this to

2141
01:55:31,359 --> 01:55:34,159
be the case before we went there, that the guy

2142
01:55:34,279 --> 01:55:36,119
that this person was hoping would come through, and he

2143
01:55:36,199 --> 01:55:41,840
did died of cancer, but it was caused by asbestos

2144
01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:47,079
toxins in his lungs, poisonous. And so this guy picked

2145
01:55:47,159 --> 01:55:49,000
up the photograph of his blow can. He put it

2146
01:55:49,000 --> 01:55:52,319
to his head and he says, this guy he died

2147
01:55:52,359 --> 01:55:55,399
in his late fifties. He had a bar in his house,

2148
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:58,239
like he had his own barber, cocktails and his own barber,

2149
01:55:58,239 --> 01:56:00,560
which are very rare for people to act. He got that,

2150
01:56:01,119 --> 01:56:04,920
and he said, oh, and he died of cancer through

2151
01:56:05,039 --> 01:56:09,680
asbestos poisoning and it was spawn. And so after us,

2152
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:12,399
I said, how did you get that? Because obviously, as

2153
01:56:12,399 --> 01:56:15,159
a medium, I'd like to learn and he said, well,

2154
01:56:15,159 --> 01:56:17,479
what happened was he said, I felt that he died

2155
01:56:17,560 --> 01:56:21,359
of cancer. And then I was shown my grandfather's motorbike

2156
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:24,279
and he had a sidecar and it like Watas and Gromet,

2157
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:27,039
and I knew that that was made of asbestos panels.

2158
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:29,680
And so when they showed me that sidecar, I know

2159
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:32,720
that they're talking about asbestos. Right, So they have to

2160
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:34,920
show you something that you can identify. And it's the

2161
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:38,319
same with names, you know, like when I've given names

2162
01:56:38,359 --> 01:56:42,279
before for mediumship, I sometimes see the person's face, Like

2163
01:56:42,319 --> 01:56:45,000
when I was talking to you and I said, I

2164
01:56:45,079 --> 01:56:47,279
get names now, and you just started to go out

2165
01:56:47,319 --> 01:56:49,479
with Chris, and you said, well, what's Chris's mum's name?

2166
01:56:50,119 --> 01:56:51,840
And you said, I'll give you a clue. Starts with them.

2167
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:54,760
And I said, I wish you had said m so

2168
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:56,640
I just said the first word that came about Mary.

2169
01:56:57,279 --> 01:56:58,640
Oh my god, how did you get out? So but

2170
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:00,800
you did say em. So then you then you said,

2171
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:03,600
and you can confirm this, You said, okay, what's the

2172
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:04,960
name of Chris's dad?

2173
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 3: Then? And then in my mind I saw my own father,

2174
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:12,439
who you know as granddad Brian, and his name is Brian,

2175
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:15,479
So I said, Brian and it was.

2176
01:57:15,439 --> 01:57:17,199
Speaker 6: Correct, and they went, oh my god, I.

2177
01:57:17,119 --> 01:57:19,159
Speaker 2: Didn't get that, but I saw the image of Brian.

2178
01:57:19,199 --> 01:57:20,760
So what they tend to do is give you the

2179
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:23,600
face an image of someone that you know their name,

2180
01:57:24,159 --> 01:57:25,920
and that tends to be the name of the other person.

2181
01:57:26,479 --> 01:57:31,359
And so I was doing a reading at the Pilgrim

2182
01:57:31,439 --> 01:57:32,840
House thing, and this is where I started to get

2183
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:34,720
a lot for this particular lady. And I was the

2184
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:37,279
first word that came to my head, wasn't the name

2185
01:57:37,359 --> 01:57:39,960
being spoken? As I walked across the room, I suddenly

2186
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:41,960
saw this face of this man that I'd known from

2187
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:45,359
Witchfest appear. His face was there, and I knew his

2188
01:57:45,439 --> 01:57:49,000
name was Rufus, right, So I thought, I've got to

2189
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,399
give the name Rufus. L That's what I knew I

2190
01:57:51,399 --> 01:57:53,319
had to do it. So I said, can anyone here

2191
01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:57,000
take the name Rufus? Very rare name, not it's called Rufus.

2192
01:57:57,720 --> 01:58:00,159
And this lady put a much because my nephew is

2193
01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:03,840
called Ruthless. And it turned out her brother had died

2194
01:58:04,079 --> 01:58:05,920
and it was him that's coming through me.

2195
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:07,119
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2196
01:58:07,279 --> 01:58:09,319
Speaker 2: So as the reading went on, I started to get

2197
01:58:09,359 --> 01:58:12,119
all sorts of facts about her, and then the one

2198
01:58:12,279 --> 01:58:14,560
weird thing about her that I got. I suddenly was

2199
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:16,720
shown a pair of hands in front of my face

2200
01:58:17,039 --> 01:58:18,159
in my clairvoyant vision.

2201
01:58:18,199 --> 01:58:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they call it.

2202
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,840
Speaker 2: And with that pair of hands being shown, just saying

2203
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:27,039
look at these hands, I felt a medical problem, medical

2204
01:58:27,079 --> 01:58:30,359
issue or something with hands. So I said, I don't

2205
01:58:30,399 --> 01:58:32,119
know if it's you or something you know, but is

2206
01:58:32,119 --> 01:58:34,199
there anyone that you can relate to that might have

2207
01:58:34,319 --> 01:58:37,560
had a medical problem with their hands in some way.

2208
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:40,199
I don't know if it's broken fingernails or broken fingers

2209
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:45,359
or anything, but there's medically wrong with fingers and hands. Yes,

2210
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:48,319
And she goes, oh, yes, yes I can. She goes,

2211
01:58:48,479 --> 01:58:51,520
my brother and my father, they were both dead and

2212
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:54,720
they were coming to talk to me. She goes, Unfortunately

2213
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:58,920
I didn't get it. They both had a genetic condition

2214
01:58:59,119 --> 01:59:03,720
that calls them to be born with weird thumbs. He goes, Essentially,

2215
01:59:04,119 --> 01:59:05,359
I mean there's a medical name for it, and I

2216
01:59:05,399 --> 01:59:09,279
can't remember, but essentially their thumb was genetically deformed, so

2217
01:59:09,359 --> 01:59:13,680
it's more like your big toe, right, okay. And the

2218
01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:16,880
father got it and the son got it, but she

2219
01:59:17,119 --> 01:59:20,319
bypassed it. And this is why I's been shown hands.

2220
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:21,600
Speaker 3: That's incredible.

2221
01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:25,239
Speaker 6: There was the one last question to wrap up before

2222
01:59:25,239 --> 01:59:29,039
we go. What advice would you give to anyone who's

2223
01:59:29,079 --> 01:59:36,640
looking to go into mediumship or discover there? What's the

2224
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:39,840
name for it, spirit guide? Spirit guides?

2225
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:40,159
Speaker 3: Yes?

2226
01:59:40,560 --> 01:59:42,960
Speaker 6: Would you what advice would you give to somebody who's

2227
01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:43,840
looking to wow?

2228
01:59:44,239 --> 01:59:48,439
Speaker 2: I read up lots of books, first of all, and

2229
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:52,720
I would suggest going to spiritist church or spirituoust meetings.

2230
01:59:53,399 --> 01:59:56,760
Get used to the idea of mediums that do readings.

2231
01:59:57,239 --> 01:59:59,119
Some are going to be bad, some are going to

2232
01:59:59,119 --> 02:00:02,920
be okay, and some going to be absolutely brilliant. The

2233
02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:06,880
brilliant ones are very read find. The bad ones are

2234
02:00:06,920 --> 02:00:11,960
easy to find. With regards to spirit guides, you might

2235
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:14,000
be given that by a medium in a reading, and

2236
02:00:14,039 --> 02:00:16,119
it might get confirmed to you later on by another

2237
02:00:16,239 --> 02:00:17,720
medium sometime later.

2238
02:00:18,039 --> 02:00:19,720
Speaker 6: And is that something you could ask a medium?

2239
02:00:20,079 --> 02:00:22,399
Speaker 2: You could ask, can you give me some information about

2240
02:00:22,399 --> 02:00:25,000
my spirit guide than white tune ins? Or got a

2241
02:00:25,119 --> 02:00:28,760
Chinese gentleman, or got a native from America, or an

2242
02:00:28,760 --> 02:00:32,159
old lady or an old Victorian gentleman, you know, And

2243
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:36,800
normally they would try and verify who they are in

2244
02:00:36,840 --> 02:00:42,079
some way, out shape or form with information in another reading.

2245
02:00:42,119 --> 02:00:44,279
Perhaps okay, okay.

2246
02:00:44,159 --> 02:00:47,560
Speaker 6: Well, that's excellent. Thank you so much for joining me

2247
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:50,359
today and for discussing this in what I hope to

2248
02:00:50,399 --> 02:00:56,399
be my first podcast episode. And yeah, it was really

2249
02:00:56,399 --> 02:00:59,560
great to learn more, and I hope we can continue

2250
02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:03,800
talking about more spiritual discoveries and ventures into other realms

2251
02:01:03,800 --> 02:01:04,399
in the future.

2252
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:16,239
Speaker 8: Thank you, Thanks Dat, bye bye.

2253
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:26,439
Speaker 2: Well that concludes the January edition of The Paranormal peep Show.

2254
02:01:26,520 --> 02:01:28,880
I hope you've enjoyed it, and we'll hopefully be back

2255
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:33,239
next month with some more exciting guests and discussions. Take care,

2256
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:34,239
thanks for listening.

2257
02:02:01,439 --> 02:02:04,760
Speaker 6: Yadakaki haten Bo Kangada pa

2258
02:02:05,119 --> 02:02:09,399
Speaker 3: In Chemubai, Kagadakata Nataka