Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping.
Speaker 2: And wing big down in the forest. Man, it gonna
Speaker 2: cause the tree fold, letting five thousand miles away. Man,
Speaker 2: you nobody see it. Nobody. You don't need to know. Man,
Speaker 2: you follow this story and you got backed like that.
Speaker 3: Win man go black and dang on panema Man, Man,
Speaker 3: you don't matter. Manka All right, logan Hole, Welcome to
Speaker 3: Jay Burden Show.
Speaker 1: How you doing? Then?
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me? I'm good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. So obviously I'm familiar with who you are
Speaker 1: in your work, but my audience might not be. So
Speaker 1: who do you are and what do you do?
Speaker 2: So? I am a digital strategist for the Blaze. I
Speaker 2: do a little bit of everything over there, posting on platform,
Speaker 2: you know. I write when I feel like I have
Speaker 2: something kind of original to say. I help with some
Speaker 2: of the marketing. I do a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2: But at heart, I'm just a patriot who loves America
Speaker 2: and cares about the country. So, and I was, I
Speaker 2: was gonna say, I was wondering. I was like, this
Speaker 2: guy is having on all of right wing Twitter except
Speaker 2: for me on his show. So I'm glad to finally
Speaker 2: be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, it's kind of funny. And there have been multiple
Speaker 1: of these where someone's like, hey, haven't you talked to
Speaker 1: him yet? And my response will be like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: talked to him two years ago, and I'll look at
Speaker 1: it that never happened. I just assumed that I did,
Speaker 1: because surely I wouldn't have missed this obvious person al
Speaker 1: on my show. Look in my defense, my scheduling is
Speaker 1: whatever I write down on paper. Hey, so the system
Speaker 1: is not airtight. There are is you have no doubt
Speaker 1: seen in planning this. There are some errors every once
Speaker 1: in a while. But yeah, man, I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: have you on. So one of the and I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about this because you know, we're kind of approaching
Speaker 1: the end of the year, and I think that there
Speaker 1: are sort of several identifiable trends, you know, that we
Speaker 1: can consider to be kind of prototypical for the year.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the most concerning, one of
Speaker 1: the ones i've you know, think is the most dramatic
Speaker 1: change is that effectively all taboos around political violence are gone,
Speaker 1: at least if you're on the political left. We obviously saw,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of an earlier version of this during
Speaker 1: the rise of Antifa, you know, during you know, the
Speaker 1: first Trunt presidency, and then certainly over you know, the
Speaker 1: fiery but mostly peaceful Summer of Love. But there's been
Speaker 1: a major ramping up in both the complexity and the
Speaker 1: degree of violence. Obviously, we don't alcilate based off of
Speaker 1: the target, and you know, some other details we don't know.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, man, what do you make of this
Speaker 1: sort of disturbing rise in political violence.
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I obviously think it's frightening. I
Speaker 2: after the Charlie Kirk assassination, I think that the right
Speaker 2: was very unified, even among like what would usually be
Speaker 2: called like the squishes and like the typical kind of
Speaker 2: like Republican establishment. Of course, like right wing right wing
Speaker 2: people were more they already understood what time it was.
Speaker 2: I think this was like a wake up call for
Speaker 2: a lot of the normies so called uh and and
Speaker 2: kind of the establishment, and everyone was unified. There were
Speaker 2: there was a period like two or three weeks, I
Speaker 2: think at least maybe a month where everyone's like, okay,
Speaker 2: time to like set aside disagreements. We have to fight
Speaker 2: the enemy, and we have to understand like the enemy
Speaker 2: is the left. And what ended up happening. I don't
Speaker 2: know if this was because people had too high of expectations,
Speaker 2: or if they kind of just wanted to move on
Speaker 2: from the news cycle or change direction. But what happened
Speaker 2: was they got even more like they just started like
Speaker 2: after about that month, they just started really really kind
Speaker 2: of attacking each other and deciding not to be united,
Speaker 2: not to be like, Okay, our enemy is the left.
Speaker 2: They turned their guns inward, and every faction this so
Speaker 2: I'm not saying like one or the other whatever, But
Speaker 2: and then all these bizarre conspiracy theory, conspiracy theories. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm not one to crap on conspiracy theorists, but all
Speaker 2: these bizarre things about how Charlie Kirk died and and
Speaker 2: everything else started rising to the top and taking over
Speaker 2: the conversation, and and I think we lost focus, and
Speaker 2: this was, uh, this was very unhelpful. I think Scott
Speaker 2: Greer had a good piece that like, it looked like
Speaker 2: this was going to be bad for the left, and
Speaker 2: actually it ended up kind of really hurting the right
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people did not recognize
Speaker 2: how much of the glue Charlie was holding this whole
Speaker 2: thing together.
Speaker 1: And and so.
Speaker 2: Again, you know, I have my criticisms of you know,
Speaker 2: I love Trump. I'm a big Trump guy. I'm a
Speaker 2: big bag of guy. But and maybe our on our expectator,
Speaker 2: like I said, maybe our expectations were a little unrealistic.
Speaker 1: But I.
Speaker 2: Think people were expecting to see some big crackdown on
Speaker 2: the left. The you know, I've seen like they did
Speaker 2: the Antifa designating it as a terrorist organization and whatever else.
Speaker 2: And I understand that these things take time, and so
Speaker 2: I'm still holding out hope, but I think people were
Speaker 2: were wanting an immediate crackdown on the left, kind of
Speaker 2: like in the vein of what they did to January
Speaker 2: sixth protesters and everything else. And that's just not what happened.
Speaker 2: And so immediately people started saying turning their guns inward
Speaker 2: and start saying, oh, we have to attack this group
Speaker 2: or that group on the right, and it kind of
Speaker 2: just turned into a debacle actually, like they took out
Speaker 2: our most like literally our most influential person, especially among
Speaker 2: the youth, and then we kind of just decided to
Speaker 2: throw up our hands and like kind of attack each
Speaker 2: other and destroy ourselves over it. It's just not the
Speaker 2: signs of a healthy movement. And so, you know, as
Speaker 2: that crackdown did not come, or it hasn't come yet,
Speaker 2: we are seeing more and more of this stuff arise up.
Speaker 2: That Brown University thing is the whole situation there is crazy.
Speaker 2: The police have no idea. I mean, the shooter is
Speaker 2: still gone. We wouldn't have even had Charlie Kirk shooter
Speaker 2: if his own family didn't turn him in. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like, why are we living in this It's like
Speaker 2: a kind of a police state where like the cameras
Speaker 2: and surveillance are supposed to be everywhere, but we can't
Speaker 2: get like a shooter that's targeting an Ivy League university
Speaker 2: or something. I don't know, but it's it's very worrying.
Speaker 2: I think I think the left. I saw Matt Walsh
Speaker 2: make a good point today too that if the most
Speaker 2: prominent leftists in America was like killed on camera, there
Speaker 2: would have been under a Democrat administration, there would have
Speaker 2: been immediate, immediate crackdowns. And I think like people on
Speaker 2: our side, there is some reasonable criticism like oh, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna You're just like you're never going to get
Speaker 2: mass arrests of leftists. And that might be true, that
Speaker 2: might be like a good and unreasonable expectation, but something
Speaker 2: has to change. Uh, you cannot have this environment where
Speaker 2: conservatives are afraid or worried that they are going to
Speaker 2: go out in public and speak their minds and be targeted,
Speaker 2: potentially targeted with violence, and nothing's going to have happened.
Speaker 2: You know that there has to be in a political system.
Speaker 2: You there has to be if you're going to be
Speaker 2: loyal to the Republican Party or the GOP or whatever,
Speaker 2: there has to be some level of protection that they
Speaker 2: provide to their people, Right, But I think I think
Speaker 2: some people don't feel like that's that's all there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well one hundred percent. It's like, look like politics
Speaker 1: is transactional. Ultimately, it's like, hey, what are you going
Speaker 1: to do for me? Like we can church it up.
Speaker 1: But that's really what it comes down to. And you know,
Speaker 1: all of the things we've been getting out of the
Speaker 1: administration have been great, right that Obviously the immigration stuff
Speaker 1: is huge. There are things that are were much needed.
Speaker 1: But fundamentally, it's like, well, if you can't guarantee my security,
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? Right? Because that's very that
Speaker 1: is the base of you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Speaker 1: They've heard of it before, Oh yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: that additionally, one of the other things about this is
Speaker 1: the the incentive creates. Effectively, we have reinforced the message
Speaker 1: that political violence works. You can, you know, sacrifice one
Speaker 1: guy maybe you know, at least in some situations he
Speaker 1: seems to be able to get away and you will
Speaker 1: throw the other side into chaos. Right, there'll be a
Speaker 1: squabble for that role that he used to have, which
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not trying to be overly cynical here,
Speaker 1: but I do think that's a lot of the infighting.
Speaker 1: That TPUSA is a giant platform with a whole lot
Speaker 1: of money behind it, and so I think it's a
Speaker 1: fight for who gets to control that money and that influence,
Speaker 1: at least on some level. And you see this in
Speaker 1: how many people have thrown their hat in the ring
Speaker 1: to replace Charlie Kirk, which I mean, I don't know, guys,
Speaker 1: if you're accepting auditions, you know, I wouldn't mind two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars. I'll you know, be generous
Speaker 1: enough to take it. But in all seriousness, right, Like,
Speaker 1: what we've effectively taught the radical left is that you
Speaker 1: can do this, and you know you'll have to sacrifice
Speaker 1: a guy. He'll have to face consequences, but you basically
Speaker 1: get what you want. You get to throw the other
Speaker 1: side into chaos, you get to take out one of
Speaker 1: their key players on the board, and yeah, sure there's
Speaker 1: a sort of a typhoon in a teacup. You know,
Speaker 1: people get really upset about it for a little bit,
Speaker 1: but once that's done, that's done, and the state of
Speaker 1: play is basically exactly the same. One of the interesting
Speaker 1: elements of this, I think, and I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: you've seen it, is this sort of like kind of
Speaker 1: smirking face of you know, the Kirk assassin right now
Speaker 1: that he's been brought into court. Because one of in
Speaker 1: my mind, the sort of open questions of the post
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen but really the post twenty twenty era is
Speaker 1: basically what is the left wings role for young men,
Speaker 1: particularly young white men. That sort of an open question
Speaker 1: for a while, like how can you be on side
Speaker 1: for a little bit, it seemed like you could be
Speaker 1: this sort of like dirtbag leftist Bernie bro Thing that's
Speaker 1: been sort of pushed out. Then there was the kind
Speaker 1: of debate bro streamer archetype that you could be that guy,
Speaker 1: but that's sort of fading in prominence and they've been
Speaker 1: replaced by it bizarre gaggle of transsexuals, and so ultimately
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you can do that, like that's one
Speaker 1: way you can join the coalition, But it seems as
Speaker 1: if the other way is you can kill someone, like
Speaker 1: that's what you can do to sort of be immortalized,
Speaker 1: you know. Aaron Bushnell, like I let himself on fire
Speaker 1: is sort of another example. I don't think that's a
Speaker 1: great deal. I don't think a lot of people are
Speaker 1: going to take them up on it. But nonetheless, you
Speaker 1: do see a lot of these like deranged losers basically
Speaker 1: looking for glory, and when they are assured that they
Speaker 1: will be given that, they have at least some chance
Speaker 1: of getting away with it, and that is how you
Speaker 1: will win social approval. I don't know, man, that's a
Speaker 1: very dangerous situation. Do you see what I'm outlining there?
Speaker 2: Logan one hundred percent. Yeah. Luigi Mangioni was kind of
Speaker 2: a part of this phenomenon too, where the left kind
Speaker 2: of ended up, uh, just immortalizing this guy because he
Speaker 2: took out Healthcare CEO and their big thing is supposed
Speaker 2: to be healthcare, which I don't necessarily think that's true,
Speaker 2: but you're you're completely right, Yeah, that is. That is
Speaker 2: a very dangerous thing to do. But they they've been
Speaker 2: doing this for a while. You know, the left actually
Speaker 2: ends up rewarding their radicals. You can commit terrorism, literal terrorism,
Speaker 2: and the left will eventually, you know, if you make
Speaker 2: it out of the Core proceedings and go to prison
Speaker 2: for a little while or whatever, they hold you up
Speaker 2: as an intellectual. You are a part of their your
Speaker 2: you're advancing the revolution. Right, they did this with the
Speaker 2: Weather Underground people that if you commit literal terrorism, you
Speaker 2: will become You'll you'll you'll be invited, you'll be welcomed
Speaker 2: into the fold, You'll be awarded with sinecures and political positions,
Speaker 2: and they'll get you a book deal. They truly do
Speaker 2: reward their radicals, and this is one of the main differences.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying that the Republican Party or
Speaker 2: the right needs to copy this strategy necessarily, but if
Speaker 2: you're punishing anyone to the right of like William F. Buckley,
Speaker 2: per se, and you're saying, like, you know, Pap Buchanan was.
Speaker 2: It's a little bit tougher for them to do this
Speaker 2: too now in the age of like digital and social media,
Speaker 2: But back then they effectively excise Sam Francis and Pap
Speaker 2: Buchanan from the movement and they're like, you guys can go,
Speaker 2: you guys can go like write at your weird little
Speaker 2: like newspapers and whatever, but you are not going to
Speaker 2: have any professional standing within the party and within the movement.
Speaker 2: And so this is this is the result of this
Speaker 2: is that the country and all of politics, all of
Speaker 2: our political conversation always moves to the left. It always
Speaker 2: moves to the left because if one side is always rewarding,
Speaker 2: always advancing their revolutionaries professionally, politically, and if one side
Speaker 2: is always punishing, they're not even revolutionaries. But just like
Speaker 2: people who held the same opinions that like an American
Speaker 2: from like the early nineteen hundreds held, then you are
Speaker 2: you are an outcast. And this is part of the
Speaker 2: issue within and this is this is part of the
Speaker 2: larger debate. I would argue within like the Republican and
Speaker 2: conservative and right wing is where do we draw that line?
Speaker 2: But also like you can't just you're not going to
Speaker 2: cancel these people, like we're done with that, if you
Speaker 2: That's one of the weirdest things too, is like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're against like cancel culture and whatever until it's time
Speaker 2: to destroy like someone who goes off the reservation a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's very weird.
Speaker 1: Well, and in the immortal words of uh, you know
Speaker 1: Mark Levin, Hell, yeah, we canceled jo so Soberin.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, he may he may have a different
Speaker 1: opinion on any number of issues than you know, me
Speaker 1: or my guest here. But point is right, you're one
Speaker 1: hundred percent right about that trend line. If you are
Speaker 1: constantly purging yourself according to the moral precepts of your
Speaker 1: alleged enemies, where do you think that will bring you?
Speaker 1: It isn't to fighting them harder, it's to being more
Speaker 1: like them. Uh. I have an unfinished piece. It'll probably
Speaker 1: come out roughly at the same time as this uh
Speaker 1: this episode. Uh talking about a piece that Day French
Speaker 1: wrote in the New York Times and is a David
Speaker 1: French piece. It's not very good. And when he's basically
Speaker 1: doing yeah, yeah, I know, I feel I feel a
Speaker 1: little dirty for doing this, Like I can't help myself.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like you know, an alcoholic you know,
Speaker 1: has a bad day and starts hitting the bottle. It's
Speaker 1: like for me, it's like, oh, David French wrote something new.
Speaker 1: But point is, you know, he has this whole he
Speaker 1: has this you know, this argument where he basically is
Speaker 1: is kind of molding about being called gay by a
Speaker 1: bunch of like magazoomers three years ago and is still
Speaker 1: upset about it. Uh. And he talks about, you know,
Speaker 1: like the fact that you know, the core complaint of
Speaker 1: you know that what he calls the new right is
Speaker 1: that things are getting worse and they have gotten to
Speaker 1: such a state that we need to abandon the kind
Speaker 1: of legacy conservative movement, their way of going about things.
Speaker 1: And he says that that is, you know, that's wrong,
Speaker 1: that's you know, things are actually getting much better, and
Speaker 1: that really the problem is people are just upset about nothing.
Speaker 1: You know, the algorithm made them mad. And look like
Speaker 1: there are a couple of problems here, which is one,
Speaker 1: like things have gotten pretty rough, Like we've mentioned there's
Speaker 1: been a spate of you know, left wing political violence,
Speaker 1: and we mentioned the assassinations, this brown shooting, which we
Speaker 1: don't know but we can suspect. But also like, look
Speaker 1: like there were like twelve guys who like set up
Speaker 1: an L shaped ambush outside of an ice center in Texas,
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of that. That is unprecedented in recent history.
Speaker 1: Things like that didn't used to happen. This is setting
Speaker 1: aside immigration. This is a setting aside the job prospects
Speaker 1: for young white guys after twenty fifteen. There are many
Speaker 1: measurable ways and which you can say, like, look like
Speaker 1: things aren't doing well. And again, you know, the assumption
Speaker 1: is ultimately that because of you know, the GDP, because
Speaker 1: of you know, the market price of a flat screen television,
Speaker 1: or you know, your life expectancy when you have terminal cancer,
Speaker 1: not only is the state of America positive, but by extension,
Speaker 1: ultimately left wing political goals are legitimate. That is the
Speaker 1: purpose of the conservative movement to do those same things.
Speaker 1: And so, and I'm picking on Friendship particular because he's
Speaker 1: fun to pick on, but there are many people in
Speaker 1: this It's like, well, look, man, if you agree with them,
Speaker 1: and we really dig down to it, if you believe
Speaker 1: that the past is horribly and irredeemably tainted that you know,
Speaker 1: we just need to go into this future of extending
Speaker 1: you know, more and more privileges to democratic client groups,
Speaker 1: like like you can just join their party, like and
Speaker 1: just go all the way. You know, you don't have
Speaker 1: to have this sort of embarrassing you know, halfway position,
Speaker 1: one foot in each door. And I think that you
Speaker 1: know that sort of you know, con inc as Paul
Speaker 1: Godfried would say it, right is truly the people who I,
Speaker 1: almost more than anyone else, have grown to detest in
Speaker 1: all of this because again, right, like, the consequences for
Speaker 1: you know, refusing to bend the knee are dramatic. The
Speaker 1: reaction that I and many other people on the more
Speaker 1: radical end politics had towards the assassination of Charlie Kirk
Speaker 1: was an initial shock, like, wait him, like, he's the
Speaker 1: he's the fascist because you know, from a relatively more
Speaker 1: right word perspective, he looked very moderate. And then you're thinking, well,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, if he's a Nazi and we shoot Nazis,
Speaker 1: it's what you do. Well, one, what does that make me?
Speaker 1: And who what does that make everyone else? Right, people
Speaker 1: who are either between me and Kirk are between me
Speaker 1: and Chairman Mao, like what does that make them? And
Speaker 1: the answer is apparently right for political assassination, let alone
Speaker 1: the kind of direct threats of prosecution leveled towards the
Speaker 1: Trump administration. Right, We're gonna send hag Seth to the Hague.
Speaker 1: Trump will go to jail. And if this is the consequence, one,
Speaker 1: clearly things are not going well in America. That would
Speaker 1: seem to be a negative indicator. But also like what
Speaker 1: if this is supposedly an existential threat. Your career will
Speaker 1: be over, You'll be in jail, you might be dead.
Speaker 1: Like where's the lack of action coming from? Because I
Speaker 1: would assume, even just off of selfish you know, motivations,
Speaker 1: you would say, well, I don't want to go to jail.
Speaker 1: How do I make that not happen? Or I don't
Speaker 1: want to be shot? How do I keep that from happening?
Speaker 1: And I see from a lot of the conservative movement
Speaker 1: a lack of even just basic self preservation you'd expect
Speaker 1: out of like a c slug or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, no, absolutely, And kind of going back to a
Speaker 2: little bit of what we're talking about, what happens is
Speaker 2: the Republicans, like the David French's for instance. They they
Speaker 2: are allowed a spot at or at least you know,
Speaker 2: for a while, they're allowed a spot at National Review
Speaker 2: or The New York Times or whatever else. So he
Speaker 2: understands that moving to the left and saying, Okay, my
Speaker 2: job is like to hate red America. I'm never going
Speaker 2: to be like an MSNBC. It might be a guest
Speaker 2: or something, but I'm like, my job is to sit
Speaker 2: there and crap on red America. The Democrats do not
Speaker 2: have this sort of arrangement. The Democrats if the minute
Speaker 2: that you get out of line, that like someone like
Speaker 2: Tulci Gabbert for instance, the minute that they get out
Speaker 2: of line, they're like, you are gone. RFK Junior. The
Speaker 2: guy's freaking family is they were before Obama. They were
Speaker 2: the Democrat prominent, premier Democrat family, like they were the
Speaker 2: ones who every Democrat in America be like, we love
Speaker 2: the Kennedys, we love that, we love Ted, we love
Speaker 2: He was called the line of the Senate after he
Speaker 2: literally killed a woman and they they did not. They
Speaker 2: were like, oh, this is this is terrible and professional behavior.
Speaker 2: Now maybe he won't be president, but he'll be in
Speaker 2: the Senate for like forty years, and we'll keep him
Speaker 2: in a prominent position within the part. The moment that
Speaker 2: you step off the reservation there, the moment you like
Speaker 2: starts being like, Okay, maybe we don't need to just
Speaker 2: like advance this permanent revolution thing. They get you out, okay.
Speaker 2: And what happens is the Republicans do the exact same thing,
Speaker 2: except in reverse. So if you don't hold the same
Speaker 2: opinions that a lot of the that would be respectable
Speaker 2: at the New York Times or like make you be
Speaker 2: able to appear on MSNBC as a guest, they're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this person is a little bit wacky. We're going to
Speaker 2: have to like purds to them. Make sure they don't
Speaker 2: have professional employment, they don't have advancement. So it's it's
Speaker 2: just it's it's literally crazy. And what happens is even
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton's views from fifteen years ago, ten years ago,
Speaker 2: Barack Obama, his views from ten or fifteen years ago
Speaker 2: are unacceptable in today's Democrat party. So this is what
Speaker 2: it's just, it's always even like and and then the
Speaker 2: Republicans the conservatives say, yeah, you know what, you're right,
Speaker 2: Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton opposed gay marriage. You know what,
Speaker 2: we're gonna, We're gonna h But now they love it,
Speaker 2: so now it's time for us to adopt that position
Speaker 2: as well. It's it's it's crazy. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think social media is starting to in the rise of
Speaker 2: podcasting and sort of the the death of legacy media
Speaker 2: is starting to change this where people are like whoahoa, whoa.
Speaker 2: I I am not on Like, I don't want I
Speaker 2: don't care about what people on MSNBC think. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have my own opinions, in my own views, and like
Speaker 2: that's my right as an American. But again, and when
Speaker 2: people start getting a little bit like Charlie Kirk started
Speaker 2: to he had a change too, and he started to
Speaker 2: move a little bit to the right. And as soon
Speaker 2: as you do that, as soon as you someone with
Speaker 2: like prominence like that starts to move a little bit
Speaker 2: like drift from Okay, I these aren't opinions you'll ever
Speaker 2: hear on the New York Times or MSNBC. He's a
Speaker 2: threat the people, the old like who we're talking about,
Speaker 2: the David Frenches of the world. They're like you said,
Speaker 2: they're numerous of these people that still are pretty well
Speaker 2: entrenched in conservative politics. The moment that you kind of
Speaker 2: get away from that, they the left is like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is a target. This is someone who is not
Speaker 2: is not someone that we can just like welcome into
Speaker 2: our coalition to crap on red America anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, and the thing is that, look, we've run this
Speaker 1: playbook over and over again. It's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: the secret has just been discovered. You know that if
Speaker 1: you play, if you play to the center constantly, you know,
Speaker 1: if you adopt, you know, the liberal values of ten
Speaker 1: years ago, if you know vainly try you know, election
Speaker 1: after election to appeal to demographics that vote against you,
Speaker 1: you know, ninety three to seven, right to quote the
Speaker 1: results of win some series in a recent election. It's
Speaker 1: not like you do that, and that's the silver bullet.
Speaker 1: You get it, you get into power forever. We've been
Speaker 1: trying this for generations, longer than you or I have
Speaker 1: been alive, and it doesn't it doesn't yield a victory.
Speaker 1: And many people, you know, many of the new reactionary
Speaker 1: as well as others, have pointed out the fact that
Speaker 1: effectively the Republican Party doesn't actually exist to win right,
Speaker 1: it's it's they are the fail sons of the political order.
Speaker 1: They exist so that guys in the Republican Party get
Speaker 1: to be this sort of like Retardo Baron of backwater America,
Speaker 1: and they get to enrich themselves and they get to
Speaker 1: stay in power for a long time and you know,
Speaker 1: become multimillionaires more than that, and they get to be respected,
Speaker 1: and they still get to go to all of the
Speaker 1: same parties and that's it. It's an easy deal and
Speaker 1: nothing is really expected of them. And we've seen that
Speaker 1: change a little bit, right, you know, sell you about Trump,
Speaker 1: but he has introduced the concept of winning into the
Speaker 1: mind of the American conservative, which, if nothing else, Man,
Speaker 1: we got to give him an award for that, because
Speaker 1: that was that was all of the lesson But nonetheless, right,
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier the kind of protection racket offered by politics. Right, effectively,
Speaker 1: what are you getting in exchange for your support? And
Speaker 1: for a very long time, the political formula of the
Speaker 1: Republican Party was basically, well, we'll leave you alone for
Speaker 1: as long as we're in power. We won't ruin your life.
Speaker 1: And okay, that's certainly better than having your life ruined,
Speaker 1: you know, given a binary choice, but that is not
Speaker 1: the same deal offered to shall we say, other interest groups, right,
Speaker 1: offered to other you know, clients of the regime. You know,
Speaker 1: for instance, you have this guy out of Portland too,
Speaker 1: you know, crazy homeless drug addicts. Right. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: pretend to either. One of these guys are upstanding citizens.
Speaker 1: But you know there's an altercation. You know, a dusky
Speaker 1: gentleman stabs a white guy and after being stabbed, the
Speaker 1: guy who has got a knife in him uses a
Speaker 1: racial epithet right for black Americans, which you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna morally excuse, but like, the guy's been stabbed,
Speaker 1: you know, clearly this is not a great moment for him.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like a premeditated hard r you know,
Speaker 1: full eye contact and everything. Yeah, but this this stabber
Speaker 1: has been let go. The jury equits him because of
Speaker 1: that detail. Right, It was sort of this like you know,
Speaker 1: pre crime. You know, he he knew in his heart
Speaker 1: that he was racist and stabbed him and it confirmed it.
Speaker 1: But look like that's an incredible piece of patronage there.
Speaker 1: If you're a client of the regime, you can stab
Speaker 1: someone and you can get away with it. We've seen
Speaker 1: this in other cases as well, right the you know,
Speaker 1: the the whole you know, this whole sort of affirmative
Speaker 1: action apparatus, you know, disparate impact. All of these are
Speaker 1: basically rewards offered for your loyalty. And you look at
Speaker 1: you know, what has been offered, and basically we're looking
Speaker 1: at sort of a civilizational dispossession. You know, it's kind
Speaker 1: of slow marched over seventy years, and you start to
Speaker 1: say like, well, wait a minute, this is possible. I
Speaker 1: see other people getting something, so why not me? And
Speaker 1: you see this sort of fury from the kind of
Speaker 1: conservatives or yes of yesteryear, you know, the old the
Speaker 1: old true neo cons you know, Crystal and French and
Speaker 1: others who basically want to put that genie back in
Speaker 1: the bottle to say like, well, why can't we go
Speaker 1: back to the good old days where I didn't have
Speaker 1: to do anything that was a lot more fun. And
Speaker 1: when I say I didn't have to do anything, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that. You know, the people currently empower the
Speaker 1: you know, the the Maga block, whatever you wanna call it,
Speaker 1: are like the best political actors possible. But to say
Speaker 1: I think that is an interesting an interesting change is
Speaker 1: sort of how nakedly political many things have become where
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily like we're resorting and it still happens,
Speaker 1: but to kind of this like you know, high minded idealism,
Speaker 1: it's a lot more of like, well, what's in it
Speaker 1: for me? I don't necessarily think that is a sign
Speaker 1: of a healthy culture, but it is where we are.
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting to watch those kind of
Speaker 1: you know, country club conservative types grapple with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I, uh, I will say, just with
Speaker 2: your last part there, I am a huge golfer, so
Speaker 2: I love I have nothing, but I understand the uh
Speaker 2: the that that is just kind of a way to
Speaker 2: talk about them. But I love the country club conservatives.
Speaker 2: I would say, I would say, actually, this might be
Speaker 2: a little bit controversial, but country clubs are like one
Speaker 2: of the last places in America where you have a
Speaker 2: selective process of who gets to come in. That's like
Speaker 2: almost lost everywhere else. So you know, it doesn't have
Speaker 2: like diversity quotas at you like, your local country club
Speaker 2: is not like you have to let in like a
Speaker 2: certain amount of like X number of people every year.
Speaker 2: It's like no, you can actually just like let in
Speaker 2: some like respectable members of the community or people who
Speaker 2: are willing to pay their way in and show off
Speaker 2: good behavior and whatever else. I understand. I didn't mean
Speaker 2: to take that much issue with that, I understand. I
Speaker 2: just I wrote an article specifically about this, so I
Speaker 2: wanted to kind of get a shameless plug in there.
Speaker 2: But but no, you're right that the main question that
Speaker 2: we're kind of getting at is what do I receive
Speaker 2: in return for my loyalty to the Republican Party, And
Speaker 2: it's a lot less than what Democrats get. Now, I think,
Speaker 2: like you said, Trump kind of has broken that open
Speaker 2: a little bit because he's one of the few people
Speaker 2: like he's like, hey, drink COVID. Let's like send out
Speaker 2: like one time stimulus. Let's just as like give people
Speaker 2: money and say, like, you know, you get your check,
Speaker 2: and then it says from President Donald J. Trump, you
Speaker 2: know that's a that's a form of patronage that like
Speaker 2: the Republicans are would typically not usually be on board with.
Speaker 2: Same with what he's talking about with Obamacare and healthcare,
Speaker 2: He's like, I want the money to go directly to
Speaker 2: the people. This is like a very populous thing, right,
Speaker 2: This is like kind of what separates him from some
Speaker 2: of the other Republicans, where he's like, I am willing
Speaker 2: to give you something in return, even if if even
Speaker 2: if it's just a small, like monetary stipend. He's like,
Speaker 2: here is what you get. You vote for me, you
Speaker 2: get X number of dollars. You'll get these Trump savings accounts.
Speaker 2: That's another big thing.
Speaker 1: Like I have.
Speaker 2: A son on the way, my wife's our first son.
Speaker 2: My wife's do it in February, and I now have
Speaker 2: access to this like government program where my child is born,
Speaker 2: I get a thousand The Treasury Department will deposit one
Speaker 2: thousand dollars into a savings account for my retirement account
Speaker 2: for my son. And that's like, you know, that's not
Speaker 2: necessarily like a traditional Republican thing, but as like someone
Speaker 2: who you know understands you need to get you know,
Speaker 2: as much ahead as you can before you enter the workforce.
Speaker 2: That's a good thing. You know, I'll be able to
Speaker 2: sign my kid up for that. It's like that that's
Speaker 2: a form of patronage, right, And so I think Trump
Speaker 2: is somewhat changing this this mindset, like but again and
Speaker 2: it's still woefully, woefully short of what the Democrats get
Speaker 2: for their loyalty.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's literally like, if you go vote Democrat, we pay you.
Speaker 2: And it's it's also tough to This is part of
Speaker 2: the issue with patronage too, is because the Democrats are
Speaker 2: always going to promise more and and so I think
Speaker 2: we have to be like practical in the way we
Speaker 2: do it. But even just offering like hey, you're going
Speaker 2: to have basic security would go a long way. But
Speaker 2: you know, you'll have safe streets in America. You can
Speaker 2: walk in a city and not have to be worried
Speaker 2: about getting stabbed or your murderer being let off because
Speaker 2: you used a racial slur after you got literally stabbed.
Speaker 1: You know, Like.
Speaker 2: It seems like there there are some forms of this
Speaker 2: that could be just so simple. And you know, I
Speaker 2: think Trump's trying to He's trying to do that too,
Speaker 2: but you can only do so much. Like you know,
Speaker 2: he's trying to send some of the National Guard to
Speaker 2: the cities and whatever else. I think all the cities
Speaker 2: probably need that, but that's probably another discussion. But he's
Speaker 2: I think he is changing it for the better. I
Speaker 2: just it's going to be interesting to see where this goes,
Speaker 2: because it does seem like there's a coordinated effort to
Speaker 2: reinstall the kind of politics where you tell Republicans like
Speaker 2: the slow burn that you're talking about, like you're going
Speaker 2: to lose your society, but we'll do it a little
Speaker 2: bit slower. And I think I think that mindset is
Speaker 2: hopefully changing. It's certainly changed among a lot of young people,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think that that's that's what's incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 1: And I mentioned it with win some Earl series, but
Speaker 1: we're seeing it currently with the Indian diaspora, which is
Speaker 1: the way that conservatives and will bend over backwards to
Speaker 1: try and appeal for groups which vote against the met
Speaker 1: dramatic rate. So for instance, Uh, you know, Rod Dreyer
Speaker 1: had a piece out a while ago. What I heard
Speaker 1: in d C Uh it was also not very good. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's funny, Logan, you're sort of getting the
Speaker 1: citations for every article I've written in the last three months,
Speaker 1: but you know six of my brain the where you know,
Speaker 1: he he's quoting this unnamed you know, uh, Republican staffer
Speaker 1: right as we were assured a young person of color.
Speaker 1: Uh you can figure it out. Uh, But basically this
Speaker 1: kid is saying. He's like, oh, well, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the problem with these you know, new you know, radical
Speaker 1: right wingers is that they're you know, they're abandoning you know,
Speaker 1: these these you know outreaches to you know, groups like
Speaker 1: the Indian diaspora, who he describes as you know, natural conservatives.
Speaker 1: And he says, don't you know in the last election,
Speaker 1: almost forty percent of them voted for Trump. So we've
Speaker 1: got to keep doing that. We've got to keep appealing
Speaker 1: to them, to keep bringing more of them. And look, man,
Speaker 1: I'm not a quant but uh is not more than half.
Speaker 1: It's actually a little bit less. So that is a
Speaker 1: losing game, especially because again talking about things we've done
Speaker 1: over and over and over again, this idea of you know,
Speaker 1: the soo so called you know, quote unquote natural conservative
Speaker 1: often just deployed by group Bro.
Speaker 2: I promise this time they're gonna they're gonna help us.
Speaker 2: I swear yes.
Speaker 1: And it's like, look like, certainly, you know Hispanics, especially
Speaker 1: if they've sort of you know, been around longer, have
Speaker 1: moved towards the center. But still it's not the majority
Speaker 1: dramatically so and so it's especially frustrating when it seems
Speaker 1: as if you know, the conservative the right is is
Speaker 1: loathe to handout patronage when it is a group that
Speaker 1: actually supports them, a group that actually votes for them.
Speaker 1: And you know, by large numbers, I think, next to
Speaker 1: Black Americans, white American evangelicals are the most monolithic voting group, right,
Speaker 1: the bull, the lone bull exactly. And so it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: like you seemingly can can throw money around, you can,
Speaker 1: you know, like Greg Abbott sort of wheel yourself into
Speaker 1: a dwale and you know you can do that for them,
Speaker 1: who again vote against you roughly you know, sixty forty
Speaker 1: seventy thirty depending on what sort of election it is,
Speaker 1: but still majority. But for your guys, right, the guys
Speaker 1: that put you there, that sort of effort is is absent.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, particularly as we sort
Speaker 1: of head towards a like majority minority society, absence some
Speaker 1: dramatic change. It's like the idea and you see this
Speaker 1: again echoed by many of the very very good conservatives,
Speaker 1: a lot of them actually who attack you guys over
Speaker 1: at the Blaze, you know, one Jimbo Lindsey as well
Speaker 1: as others, you know, it's this idea that oh, no,
Speaker 1: you know, we're the right is embracing identity politics just
Speaker 1: like the left. Isn't that horrible? They've gone woke? And
Speaker 1: the problem with that is, like, look, man, like everyone
Speaker 1: else is playing identity politics. And there are two solutions
Speaker 1: to that, which is one either you know, you say,
Speaker 1: all right, turn about his fair play, or h you
Speaker 1: remove identity from consideration in politics there is only one
Speaker 1: identity in the polity.
Speaker 2: Which, ironically, I am sure ironically it's also a lot
Speaker 2: easier to do that when you have a homogeneous country,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 1: Well, And that's that's that's what I'm saying, right, either
Speaker 1: that or you create a homogeneous country. And I'm quite
Speaker 1: sure that our former massage therapist friend and others are
Speaker 1: not advocating for that right full total remigration. And so
Speaker 1: to me, that's one of those other things where I
Speaker 1: almost view that as sort of an inevitable kind of
Speaker 1: the physics of politics like that, that it's sort of
Speaker 1: a you know, like a social technology, right, like once
Speaker 1: some person discovers it becomes the new way you play.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if you ever I'm not a
Speaker 1: huge gamer, but you know, I played a.
Speaker 2: Lot of Uh, that's that's terrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I played a lot of fighting games in
Speaker 1: high school and college, and there's sort of this power
Speaker 1: creep as for as long as a game is around,
Speaker 1: right where like when it first comes out, you play
Speaker 1: it like how you're supposed to play it, and then
Speaker 1: people very quickly discover exploits, Like in the the Super
Speaker 1: Smash Brothers series, there's this mechanism called wave dashing where
Speaker 1: you can kind of like you know, mess with the
Speaker 1: buttons and shoot across the screen. And then once that's discovered,
Speaker 1: once that's discovered, that's just how you play. And if
Speaker 1: you don't play that way, you were going to lose forever.
Speaker 1: And so look, identity politics isn't quite the same because
Speaker 1: that's just how politics works. But ultimately, this kind of
Speaker 1: like nakedly racialized politics, like it was an effective tool.
Speaker 1: One party figured it out, and the two options were
Speaker 1: either stop existing as a political force, which is just
Speaker 1: not how it happens, uh, or revolve. And so so
Speaker 1: many of these people who I see is kind of
Speaker 1: like sticks in the MUDs, you know, whining about like
Speaker 1: the you know, the resurgence of like quote unquote identity politics.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you didn't want that to happen,
Speaker 1: there was a time and place for that to be
Speaker 1: headed off at the past. It's well and truly past that.
Speaker 1: It is sort of the the nature of the beast.
Speaker 1: And I am kind of curious how long the National
Speaker 1: Review set will hold on because genuinely, I do not
Speaker 1: know who their audience is. It doesn't seem to be liberals.
Speaker 1: They don't seem to like them. Their own base I
Speaker 1: think at this point has fully and totally discarded them.
Speaker 1: So is it just that, like there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: money sitting in the trust account, they keep getting their
Speaker 1: paychecks paid in the audio and the newspapers read by nobody.
Speaker 1: Is that just the answer? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the issue, is like we
Speaker 2: have and you will like understand we the Republican Party
Speaker 2: does have patronage, but it's for people who exist to
Speaker 2: not represent Republican voters. That's the that's like the issue, right,
Speaker 2: Like this is part of the problem is that you
Speaker 2: have think tanks. I lived and worked in DC for
Speaker 2: like probably like three three and a half years when
Speaker 2: I was young, and it's you know, it's a great experience.
Speaker 2: It's good for young people, but for me, it created
Speaker 2: this just huge disillusionment because you meet people and you're like,
Speaker 2: what is your job? You know, like that's just kind
Speaker 2: of a small talk at like a you know, at
Speaker 2: cocktail hour or whatever, and you talk with them and
Speaker 2: they're number one. They don't really have any beliefs. It's
Speaker 2: like they don't they don't have any Like it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like from like Maryland or Virginia or whatever. They
Speaker 2: don't really have a lot of beliefs. And then also
Speaker 2: a ton of them are just like not from they
Speaker 2: don't have that love for Red America that a lot
Speaker 2: of like they view their their role as being what
Speaker 2: is acceptable within the liberal order. Right, they kind of
Speaker 2: know that they're there too, Oh well, well you know,
Speaker 2: we're here for the mid terms, or we're here to
Speaker 2: like be a consultant for this, like for winsome Seers,
Speaker 2: or like for this this conservative Somalian in Minnesota, right,
Speaker 2: And it's like they operate they're so kind of captured
Speaker 2: by the system. It's like, well, what about like the
Speaker 2: guy in West Virginia who like it lives in like
Speaker 2: rural nowhere West Virginia and like he thinks you're representing him.
Speaker 2: Here are you representing his? Like does he have any
Speaker 2: representation in Washington, DC? I don't think so. But this
Speaker 2: is sort of the issue. And and when you're talking
Speaker 2: about it, like the identity politics thing with mass democracy,
Speaker 2: like it is a numbers game. And if you start
Speaker 2: doing this like mass democracy plus mass immigration, and you
Speaker 2: think that you're not going to get identity politics, that's
Speaker 2: like you are. That's more absurd than like, you know,
Speaker 2: people who believe in Bigfoot are less like and I,
Speaker 2: you know, I believe in Bigfoot. But aside the point
Speaker 2: people who believe in Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: My favorite Republican Republican ever, Denver Riggleman, bigfoot believer. But
Speaker 1: no point is you're you're one hundred percent correct because
Speaker 1: like look like you know, much like a fighting game
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's a system and ultimately you're playing within
Speaker 1: certain constraints and systems will be optimized. And so as
Speaker 1: you've said, if you combine mass migration and mass democracy,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've got a win button and
Speaker 1: you can just keep pressing that button forever, especially if
Speaker 1: you have what and sorry for you know, tarnishing you
Speaker 1: by using poor language, but the retardedest idea ever birthright citizenship,
Speaker 1: and so you combine that and it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you can just literally invite everyone here, wait for someone
Speaker 1: to get pregnant, and bam, you have a new patron.
Speaker 1: You're rather yeah, just as American as anyone else, as
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro actually today has has told me that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's all.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I keep going, no, no, finish that thought.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The vakroate a piece today in the New York Times
Speaker 2: too that said, what is an American? It says anyone
Speaker 2: who believes in the creed and anyone who does it
Speaker 2: the right way and gets citizenship is just as American
Speaker 2: as a mayflower.
Speaker 1: To send it, I feel like there's some motivated reasoning
Speaker 1: for our young biotechnical founder. I'll leave it at that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously it's it's completely totally disingenuous, and I think that
Speaker 1: that is you know, really, I think that sort of
Speaker 1: one of the start questions, and this has been going
Speaker 1: around really for a lot this year, which is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: who is an American matters? But also what is the
Speaker 1: purpose of America as a country? Like what you doing
Speaker 1: here because you have wildly different takes and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I have a relatively constrained vision of that
Speaker 1: which I think is a home for Americans to them
Speaker 1: to live. You know, I don't know, crucify me, I guess,
Speaker 1: but like generally it actually is when you compare it
Speaker 1: to ideas even from the nominal conservative movement, as you
Speaker 1: mentioned with Favek, right, if America is simply something that
Speaker 1: you can repeat to yourself three times in the mirror
Speaker 1: and then you're American, it's like, well, okay, like one,
Speaker 1: well can't they just do that over there and be
Speaker 1: just as American? And surely that's the secret formula to
Speaker 1: making whatever that place is nice? You know, they just
Speaker 1: become Americans. Oh great, awesome.
Speaker 2: It's if it's an idea, why can't they do it
Speaker 2: anywhere else?
Speaker 1: And we know why, we know exactly why, because that
Speaker 1: is a tactical move right, that is to get you
Speaker 1: to you know, let your let your arm, your guard
Speaker 1: down so they can do what they wanted to. And again,
Speaker 1: like that's why I think again it's so funny to
Speaker 1: watch the kind of like like of the you know,
Speaker 1: the good conservatives, you know, people who are maybe involved
Speaker 1: in IDW or whatever, because that idea of the propositional nation.
Speaker 1: It's really the only people who sincerely believed it were
Speaker 1: American conservatives acting as sort of Charlie Brown running up
Speaker 1: to the football again and again and again. And you
Speaker 1: have a you know, a small splinter group basical saying like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: look like we've fallen flat on our back like thirty times.
Speaker 1: I think it might happen again. Yeah, And you have
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown kind of looking up from his back be like, no,
Speaker 1: this time, it'll work, guys. And it's like it's funny
Speaker 1: to be because darkly right. Obviously it's sort of a
Speaker 1: you know, a depressing thing, but it's like, genuinely the
Speaker 1: only people who actually believe those sort of liberal promites
Speaker 1: are like deeply unfashionable conservatives. The progressive left obviously doesn't
Speaker 1: you know, they say that just to do what they want,
Speaker 1: but they know it's not true. And it's sort of
Speaker 1: like the one person in the world who still believes
Speaker 1: in Santa Claus, but he's like thirty and you're like, guys,
Speaker 1: come on, like, sorry, I guess it's good. I should
Speaker 1: be bad talking Sanna. I feel like I shouldn't. But
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, if you're eight years old.
Speaker 2: This BLUs to Christmas, it's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have teptic faith, but you know what I mean, right,
Speaker 1: someone who is held on to it an obviously absurd
Speaker 1: belief well past that point. And in the case of
Speaker 1: Shapiro and Viveck, there's some motivated reasoning there. We I
Speaker 1: we can assume that they know what they're doing. But again,
Speaker 1: it is incredibly irritating to see these sort of like
Speaker 1: political myths like well past their cell by date still
Speaker 1: trotted out again and again with the idea that this
Speaker 1: is the secret formula to winning well.
Speaker 2: And you know, the the reason that this is still
Speaker 2: popular is because so many of our people, you know,
Speaker 2: Trump is good at this, like and he has done
Speaker 2: a lot to advance this, but so many people that
Speaker 2: are nominally on our side are just afraid to say, like,
Speaker 2: America is a nation. We have people that built this nation.
Speaker 2: They've been around here, they have their own way of life.
Speaker 2: They've been around here for three hundred plus years. They
Speaker 2: have their own way of life, they have their own culture.
Speaker 2: And the reason that this is so because they are
Speaker 2: so afraid of being accused of racism that they cannot say, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I prefer this like culture of like Evangelical Protestants to
Speaker 2: like whatever they have going in Somalia. It's like this
Speaker 2: is it's actually pretty easy to say that, but they're
Speaker 2: so afraid to like stand up for their own people.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of the I'm sure you've seen The Incredibles,
Speaker 2: the Disney movie, but the the the villain in that
Speaker 2: movie he says, well, whenever he's like trying to give
Speaker 2: power to everyone, he says, when everyone's super, no one is.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what's happening here. Like if everyone
Speaker 2: and anyone from anywhere in the world is just as
Speaker 2: American as like the sons and daughter of the American Revolution,
Speaker 2: then you've brought the definition down to such a point
Speaker 2: that it doesn't mean anything anymore, right, And it's like,
Speaker 2: so you can't quickly I think this is a stupid
Speaker 2: idea that's also like being repudiated, and nobody really believes
Speaker 2: anymore except for kind of those idw types and foreigners.
Speaker 2: But it is one of those things where it's like
Speaker 2: the fact that it's still around that people that are
Speaker 2: supposed to be on our side are still saying it
Speaker 2: is absurd. The other thing I think that you're kind
Speaker 2: of tapping into and getting at is that America is
Speaker 2: supposed to be a home for Americans. Well, what you know,
Speaker 2: I know our friend Orin talks about this a lot,
Speaker 2: But we are supposed to be a home for Americans
Speaker 2: and we're supposed to be a sovereign nation. But this
Speaker 2: is kind of impossible if we are running an empire,
Speaker 2: which is what we are doing. You know, we have
Speaker 2: I saw something today like Trump is meeting with the fallen,
Speaker 2: like fallen troops in Syria, like American troops in Syria.
Speaker 2: It's like, why do we why do we have troops
Speaker 2: in Syria? Are we the World police or what? Like
Speaker 2: what's going on there? I have my gripes about that too.
Speaker 2: But then like the same thing with Gaza, you know,
Speaker 2: they're like, oh they have like they have this certain
Speaker 2: amount of American hostages. It's like if they're American hostages,
Speaker 2: did they pluck them from our soil? Like did did
Speaker 2: the Goazains come over here and like pluck them from
Speaker 2: like Ohio or something? Like why are they why are
Speaker 2: they all the way over there? If they're American hostages.
Speaker 2: This is part of the issue is we have diluted
Speaker 2: the definition so much that people are starting to ask.
Speaker 2: And this is one of the things that Charlie said too,
Speaker 2: like a couple months before he died, he said, like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to figure out, like, what is the
Speaker 2: answer to this question? What is an American? And I
Speaker 2: sadly I don't think, you know, the Democrats have an answer.
Speaker 2: Their answer is anyone from anywhere in the world. The
Speaker 2: rest of the world is just potential undocumented Americans. And
Speaker 2: the conservatives, you know, the ones who say it's an idea,
Speaker 2: tend to agree with that. But the ones who don't
Speaker 2: are starting to ask, like, Okay, are these like Somalians
Speaker 2: in Minnesota, these ilhan Omar they come in, they clearly
Speaker 2: hate our country. They're just scamming the welfare system. They don't,
Speaker 2: They're just here. They see it as an economic zone.
Speaker 2: They see it as a way to increase the power
Speaker 2: of their co ethnics at expense of the actual Americans
Speaker 2: in Minnesota. Are they they have papers, they've got paperwork,
Speaker 2: they have citizenship. Are they as American as you know,
Speaker 2: someone who's been in Minnesota for two hundred years their family.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: are starting to reject that. But that is kind of
Speaker 2: the question, and uh, we're gonna have to look upon, uh,
Speaker 2: some some ancient wisdom, I think to figure it out. Well, certainly.
Speaker 1: And that's sort of another you know, interesting sort of
Speaker 1: battle waged earlier in the year is over the term
Speaker 1: you know, who is an American and you know, paperwork American?
Speaker 1: And I've been reliably informed that that is a phrase,
Speaker 1: you know, the paper work American, uh, taken from a
Speaker 1: prominent Austrian painter's book. And that's the only reason anyone
Speaker 1: cares about it is because they're you know, they're secretly uh,
Speaker 1: you know, big fans of that guy. Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: of course a disingenuous barb. But nonetheless, right, that is
Speaker 1: a very important question because how do you run a
Speaker 1: society when it is very difficult to determine who actually
Speaker 1: makes it up?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like who is under your jurisdiction? Who is your guy?
Speaker 1: Who do you have to from who?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And if you can't answer that again, it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: like is this even really a country anymore? Or is
Speaker 1: it just sort of a strip mall with nukes, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't want that to be the case. I like
Speaker 1: living in a place I don't have anywhere else to go,
Speaker 1: and I see other peoples who have that. I see
Speaker 1: you know, situations where our government is you know, expending
Speaker 1: their their lives and their treasure to ensure that privilege
Speaker 1: for others. And so I think it's reasonable to say, well, like,
Speaker 1: I pay my taxes, I live here, Like should I
Speaker 1: not get the same level of deference you offered to
Speaker 1: foreign nations? That seems to me to be sort of
Speaker 1: a baseline. And again I think that is why, you know,
Speaker 1: far from you know, simply being algorithms, that so many people,
Speaker 1: particularly young people, are are sort of upset, even if
Speaker 1: it's not expressed as cleanly as that, but it's this
Speaker 1: feeling of dispossession of like, well, like, well, what's mine?
Speaker 1: What can I give myself too? Because you know, there
Speaker 1: are very few ways to index with the system, and
Speaker 1: when that system, as it were, is telling you, you know,
Speaker 1: you are this sort of fount of evil. You know,
Speaker 1: you are the reason for all of these problems and
Speaker 1: nothing is yours. Your one acceptable role is to at best,
Speaker 1: you know, either trun out or kill someone and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like a good deal. I would like
Speaker 1: a different one. Like that is why you are seeing
Speaker 1: the rise of you know, radical politics among young people
Speaker 1: because and I put every one of those words in
Speaker 1: scare quotes, but it's like you, ultimately, again, if politics
Speaker 1: is transactional, when you're giving people a particularly raw deal,
Speaker 1: they are going to cast around for alternatives. We've seen
Speaker 1: this on the international stage. Right countries at sort of
Speaker 1: the fringes of the Empire are starting to look around
Speaker 1: and saying like wait a minute, like let me click
Speaker 1: up with China, like maybe with Russia they're offering us
Speaker 1: a better deal, and like yeah, sure, the great game
Speaker 1: on the international scale is on one level different. But also,
Speaker 1: you know, politics is the science of human order, organization,
Speaker 1: human nature is real, and the same incentives play out,
Speaker 1: and ultimately, largely the conservative movement has created this incentive.
Speaker 1: And so when they're whining about it, like oh, why
Speaker 1: can't we just go back to the good old days,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you your why, You're right, there are
Speaker 1: no longer those good old dates.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You were complicit, You went along with it, You wrote
Speaker 1: articles where you referred to you know, drag Queen's Story
Speaker 1: hour as the Blessings of Liberty, and then you wonder
Speaker 1: why everyone's like, well, hey, you know, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't like that guy. I'm doing what he says anymore.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, no shit, to be brutally honest. But Logan,
Speaker 1: we're fast coming up on time. Man, it was great
Speaker 1: to have you on. I'm glad that we finally did
Speaker 1: it after some scheduling conflict. But dude, where can people
Speaker 1: find you? Ah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, go follow me on X Logan Clark Hall on
Speaker 2: there and follow the Blaze.
Speaker 1: Sure thing, man, highly I will drop both of those
Speaker 1: links there. As far as my stuff, Jaburden Show, Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: YouTube to support me and this is what I do,
Speaker 1: throw me a few bucks. Get the episodes early in
Speaker 1: AD free. Check out my sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. Logan.
Speaker 1: It was great to have you on, man. Thank you
Speaker 1: everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last forever.
Speaker 1: Good night,