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Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping.

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Speaker 2: And wing big down in the forest. Man, it gonna

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cause the tree fold, letting five thousand miles away. Man,

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you nobody see it. Nobody. You don't need to know. Man,

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you follow this story and you got backed like that.

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Speaker 3: Win man go black and dang on panema Man, Man,

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you don't matter. Manka All right, logan Hole, Welcome to

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Jay Burden Show.

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Speaker 1: How you doing? Then?

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me? I'm good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. So obviously I'm familiar with who you are

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in your work, but my audience might not be. So

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who do you are and what do you do?

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Speaker 2: So? I am a digital strategist for the Blaze. I

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do a little bit of everything over there, posting on platform,

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you know. I write when I feel like I have

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something kind of original to say. I help with some

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of the marketing. I do a little bit of everything.

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But at heart, I'm just a patriot who loves America

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and cares about the country. So, and I was, I

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was gonna say, I was wondering. I was like, this

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guy is having on all of right wing Twitter except

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for me on his show. So I'm glad to finally

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be here. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Man, it's kind of funny. And there have been multiple

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of these where someone's like, hey, haven't you talked to

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him yet? And my response will be like, yeah, I

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talked to him two years ago, and I'll look at

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it that never happened. I just assumed that I did,

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because surely I wouldn't have missed this obvious person al

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on my show. Look in my defense, my scheduling is

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whatever I write down on paper. Hey, so the system

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is not airtight. There are is you have no doubt

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seen in planning this. There are some errors every once

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in a while. But yeah, man, I'm really excited to

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have you on. So one of the and I've been

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thinking about this because you know, we're kind of approaching

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the end of the year, and I think that there

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are sort of several identifiable trends, you know, that we

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can consider to be kind of prototypical for the year.

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And I think one of the most concerning, one of

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the ones i've you know, think is the most dramatic

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change is that effectively all taboos around political violence are gone,

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at least if you're on the political left. We obviously saw,

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you know, kind of an earlier version of this during

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the rise of Antifa, you know, during you know, the

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first Trunt presidency, and then certainly over you know, the

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fiery but mostly peaceful Summer of Love. But there's been

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a major ramping up in both the complexity and the

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degree of violence. Obviously, we don't alcilate based off of

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the target, and you know, some other details we don't know.

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So I'm curious, man, what do you make of this

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sort of disturbing rise in political violence.

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Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I obviously think it's frightening. I

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after the Charlie Kirk assassination, I think that the right

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was very unified, even among like what would usually be

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called like the squishes and like the typical kind of

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like Republican establishment. Of course, like right wing right wing

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people were more they already understood what time it was.

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I think this was like a wake up call for

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a lot of the normies so called uh and and

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kind of the establishment, and everyone was unified. There were

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there was a period like two or three weeks, I

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think at least maybe a month where everyone's like, okay,

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time to like set aside disagreements. We have to fight

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the enemy, and we have to understand like the enemy

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is the left. And what ended up happening. I don't

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know if this was because people had too high of expectations,

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or if they kind of just wanted to move on

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from the news cycle or change direction. But what happened

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was they got even more like they just started like

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after about that month, they just started really really kind

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of attacking each other and deciding not to be united,

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not to be like, Okay, our enemy is the left.

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They turned their guns inward, and every faction this so

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I'm not saying like one or the other whatever, But

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and then all these bizarre conspiracy theory, conspiracy theories. You know,

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I'm not one to crap on conspiracy theorists, but all

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these bizarre things about how Charlie Kirk died and and

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everything else started rising to the top and taking over

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the conversation, and and I think we lost focus, and

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this was, uh, this was very unhelpful. I think Scott

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Greer had a good piece that like, it looked like

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this was going to be bad for the left, and

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actually it ended up kind of really hurting the right

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because I think a lot of people did not recognize

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how much of the glue Charlie was holding this whole

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thing together.

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Speaker 1: And and so.

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Speaker 2: Again, you know, I have my criticisms of you know,

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I love Trump. I'm a big Trump guy. I'm a

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big bag of guy. But and maybe our on our expectator,

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like I said, maybe our expectations were a little unrealistic.

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Speaker 1: But I.

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Speaker 2: Think people were expecting to see some big crackdown on

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the left. The you know, I've seen like they did

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the Antifa designating it as a terrorist organization and whatever else.

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And I understand that these things take time, and so

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I'm still holding out hope, but I think people were

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were wanting an immediate crackdown on the left, kind of

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like in the vein of what they did to January

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sixth protesters and everything else. And that's just not what happened.

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And so immediately people started saying turning their guns inward

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and start saying, oh, we have to attack this group

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or that group on the right, and it kind of

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just turned into a debacle actually, like they took out

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our most like literally our most influential person, especially among

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the youth, and then we kind of just decided to

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throw up our hands and like kind of attack each

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other and destroy ourselves over it. It's just not the

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signs of a healthy movement. And so, you know, as

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that crackdown did not come, or it hasn't come yet,

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we are seeing more and more of this stuff arise up.

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That Brown University thing is the whole situation there is crazy.

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The police have no idea. I mean, the shooter is

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still gone. We wouldn't have even had Charlie Kirk shooter

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if his own family didn't turn him in. You know,

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it's like, why are we living in this It's like

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a kind of a police state where like the cameras

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and surveillance are supposed to be everywhere, but we can't

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get like a shooter that's targeting an Ivy League university

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or something. I don't know, but it's it's very worrying.

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I think I think the left. I saw Matt Walsh

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make a good point today too that if the most

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prominent leftists in America was like killed on camera, there

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would have been under a Democrat administration, there would have

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been immediate, immediate crackdowns. And I think like people on

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our side, there is some reasonable criticism like oh, you're

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not gonna You're just like you're never going to get

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mass arrests of leftists. And that might be true, that

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might be like a good and unreasonable expectation, but something

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has to change. Uh, you cannot have this environment where

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conservatives are afraid or worried that they are going to

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go out in public and speak their minds and be targeted,

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potentially targeted with violence, and nothing's going to have happened.

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You know that there has to be in a political system.

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You there has to be if you're going to be

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loyal to the Republican Party or the GOP or whatever,

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there has to be some level of protection that they

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provide to their people, Right, But I think I think

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some people don't feel like that's that's all there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well one hundred percent. It's like, look like politics

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is transactional. Ultimately, it's like, hey, what are you going

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to do for me? Like we can church it up.

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But that's really what it comes down to. And you know,

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all of the things we've been getting out of the

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administration have been great, right that Obviously the immigration stuff

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is huge. There are things that are were much needed.

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But fundamentally, it's like, well, if you can't guarantee my security,

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what are we doing here? Right? Because that's very that

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is the base of you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

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They've heard of it before, Oh yeah, And I think

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that additionally, one of the other things about this is

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the the incentive creates. Effectively, we have reinforced the message

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that political violence works. You can, you know, sacrifice one

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guy maybe you know, at least in some situations he

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seems to be able to get away and you will

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throw the other side into chaos. Right, there'll be a

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squabble for that role that he used to have, which

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I mean, I'm not trying to be overly cynical here,

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but I do think that's a lot of the infighting.

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That TPUSA is a giant platform with a whole lot

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of money behind it, and so I think it's a

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fight for who gets to control that money and that influence,

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at least on some level. And you see this in

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how many people have thrown their hat in the ring

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to replace Charlie Kirk, which I mean, I don't know, guys,

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if you're accepting auditions, you know, I wouldn't mind two

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hundred and fifty million dollars. I'll you know, be generous

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enough to take it. But in all seriousness, right, Like,

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what we've effectively taught the radical left is that you

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can do this, and you know you'll have to sacrifice

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a guy. He'll have to face consequences, but you basically

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get what you want. You get to throw the other

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side into chaos, you get to take out one of

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their key players on the board, and yeah, sure there's

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a sort of a typhoon in a teacup. You know,

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people get really upset about it for a little bit,

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but once that's done, that's done, and the state of

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play is basically exactly the same. One of the interesting

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elements of this, I think, and I'm not sure if

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you've seen it, is this sort of like kind of

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smirking face of you know, the Kirk assassin right now

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that he's been brought into court. Because one of in

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my mind, the sort of open questions of the post

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twenty sixteen but really the post twenty twenty era is

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basically what is the left wings role for young men,

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particularly young white men. That sort of an open question

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for a while, like how can you be on side

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for a little bit, it seemed like you could be

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this sort of like dirtbag leftist Bernie bro Thing that's

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been sort of pushed out. Then there was the kind

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of debate bro streamer archetype that you could be that guy,

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but that's sort of fading in prominence and they've been

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replaced by it bizarre gaggle of transsexuals, and so ultimately

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it's like, well, you can do that, like that's one

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way you can join the coalition, But it seems as

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if the other way is you can kill someone, like

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that's what you can do to sort of be immortalized,

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you know. Aaron Bushnell, like I let himself on fire

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is sort of another example. I don't think that's a

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great deal. I don't think a lot of people are

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going to take them up on it. But nonetheless, you

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do see a lot of these like deranged losers basically

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looking for glory, and when they are assured that they

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will be given that, they have at least some chance

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of getting away with it, and that is how you

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will win social approval. I don't know, man, that's a

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very dangerous situation. Do you see what I'm outlining there?

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Speaker 2: Logan one hundred percent. Yeah. Luigi Mangioni was kind of

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a part of this phenomenon too, where the left kind

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of ended up, uh, just immortalizing this guy because he

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took out Healthcare CEO and their big thing is supposed

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to be healthcare, which I don't necessarily think that's true,

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but you're you're completely right, Yeah, that is. That is

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a very dangerous thing to do. But they they've been

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doing this for a while. You know, the left actually

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ends up rewarding their radicals. You can commit terrorism, literal terrorism,

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and the left will eventually, you know, if you make

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it out of the Core proceedings and go to prison

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for a little while or whatever, they hold you up

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as an intellectual. You are a part of their your

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you're advancing the revolution. Right, they did this with the

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Weather Underground people that if you commit literal terrorism, you

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will become You'll you'll you'll be invited, you'll be welcomed

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into the fold, You'll be awarded with sinecures and political positions,

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and they'll get you a book deal. They truly do

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reward their radicals, and this is one of the main differences.

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You know, I'm not saying that the Republican Party or

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the right needs to copy this strategy necessarily, but if

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you're punishing anyone to the right of like William F. Buckley,

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per se, and you're saying, like, you know, Pap Buchanan was.

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It's a little bit tougher for them to do this

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too now in the age of like digital and social media,

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But back then they effectively excise Sam Francis and Pap

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Buchanan from the movement and they're like, you guys can go,

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you guys can go like write at your weird little

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like newspapers and whatever, but you are not going to

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have any professional standing within the party and within the movement.

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And so this is this is the result of this

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is that the country and all of politics, all of

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our political conversation always moves to the left. It always

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moves to the left because if one side is always rewarding,

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always advancing their revolutionaries professionally, politically, and if one side

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is always punishing, they're not even revolutionaries. But just like

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people who held the same opinions that like an American

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from like the early nineteen hundreds held, then you are

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you are an outcast. And this is part of the

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issue within and this is this is part of the

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larger debate. I would argue within like the Republican and

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conservative and right wing is where do we draw that line?

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But also like you can't just you're not going to

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cancel these people, like we're done with that, if you

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That's one of the weirdest things too, is like, oh,

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we're against like cancel culture and whatever until it's time

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to destroy like someone who goes off the reservation a

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little bit. It's very weird.

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Speaker 1: Well, and in the immortal words of uh, you know

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Mark Levin, Hell, yeah, we canceled jo so Soberin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you know, he may he may have a different

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opinion on any number of issues than you know, me

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or my guest here. But point is right, you're one

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hundred percent right about that trend line. If you are

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constantly purging yourself according to the moral precepts of your

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alleged enemies, where do you think that will bring you?

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It isn't to fighting them harder, it's to being more

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like them. Uh. I have an unfinished piece. It'll probably

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come out roughly at the same time as this uh

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this episode. Uh talking about a piece that Day French

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wrote in the New York Times and is a David

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French piece. It's not very good. And when he's basically

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doing yeah, yeah, I know, I feel I feel a

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little dirty for doing this, Like I can't help myself.

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You know. It's like you know, an alcoholic you know,

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has a bad day and starts hitting the bottle. It's

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like for me, it's like, oh, David French wrote something new.

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But point is, you know, he has this whole he

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has this you know, this argument where he basically is

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is kind of molding about being called gay by a

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bunch of like magazoomers three years ago and is still

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upset about it. Uh. And he talks about, you know,

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like the fact that you know, the core complaint of

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you know that what he calls the new right is

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that things are getting worse and they have gotten to

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such a state that we need to abandon the kind

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of legacy conservative movement, their way of going about things.

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And he says that that is, you know, that's wrong,

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that's you know, things are actually getting much better, and

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that really the problem is people are just upset about nothing.

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You know, the algorithm made them mad. And look like

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there are a couple of problems here, which is one,

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like things have gotten pretty rough, Like we've mentioned there's

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been a spate of you know, left wing political violence,

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and we mentioned the assassinations, this brown shooting, which we

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don't know but we can suspect. But also like, look

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like there were like twelve guys who like set up

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an L shaped ambush outside of an ice center in Texas,

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Like that's kind of that. That is unprecedented in recent history.

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Things like that didn't used to happen. This is setting

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aside immigration. This is a setting aside the job prospects

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for young white guys after twenty fifteen. There are many

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measurable ways and which you can say, like, look like

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things aren't doing well. And again, you know, the assumption

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is ultimately that because of you know, the GDP, because

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of you know, the market price of a flat screen television,

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or you know, your life expectancy when you have terminal cancer,

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not only is the state of America positive, but by extension,

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ultimately left wing political goals are legitimate. That is the

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purpose of the conservative movement to do those same things.

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And so, and I'm picking on Friendship particular because he's

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fun to pick on, but there are many people in

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this It's like, well, look, man, if you agree with them,

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and we really dig down to it, if you believe

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that the past is horribly and irredeemably tainted that you know,

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we just need to go into this future of extending

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you know, more and more privileges to democratic client groups,

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like like you can just join their party, like and

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just go all the way. You know, you don't have

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to have this sort of embarrassing you know, halfway position,

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one foot in each door. And I think that you

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know that sort of you know, con inc as Paul

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Godfried would say it, right is truly the people who I,

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almost more than anyone else, have grown to detest in

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all of this because again, right, like, the consequences for

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you know, refusing to bend the knee are dramatic. The

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reaction that I and many other people on the more

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radical end politics had towards the assassination of Charlie Kirk

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was an initial shock, like, wait him, like, he's the

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he's the fascist because you know, from a relatively more

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right word perspective, he looked very moderate. And then you're thinking, well,

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wait a minute, if he's a Nazi and we shoot Nazis,

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it's what you do. Well, one, what does that make me?

335
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And who what does that make everyone else? Right, people

336
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who are either between me and Kirk are between me

337
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and Chairman Mao, like what does that make them? And

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the answer is apparently right for political assassination, let alone

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the kind of direct threats of prosecution leveled towards the

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Trump administration. Right, We're gonna send hag Seth to the Hague.

341
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Trump will go to jail. And if this is the consequence, one,

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clearly things are not going well in America. That would

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seem to be a negative indicator. But also like what

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if this is supposedly an existential threat. Your career will

345
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be over, You'll be in jail, you might be dead.

346
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Like where's the lack of action coming from? Because I

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would assume, even just off of selfish you know, motivations,

348
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you would say, well, I don't want to go to jail.

349
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How do I make that not happen? Or I don't

350
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want to be shot? How do I keep that from happening?

351
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And I see from a lot of the conservative movement

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a lack of even just basic self preservation you'd expect

353
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out of like a c slug or something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, no, absolutely, And kind of going back to a

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little bit of what we're talking about, what happens is

356
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the Republicans, like the David French's for instance. They they

357
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are allowed a spot at or at least you know,

358
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for a while, they're allowed a spot at National Review

359
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or The New York Times or whatever else. So he

360
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understands that moving to the left and saying, Okay, my

361
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job is like to hate red America. I'm never going

362
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to be like an MSNBC. It might be a guest

363
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,880
or something, but I'm like, my job is to sit

364
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,920
there and crap on red America. The Democrats do not

365
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have this sort of arrangement. The Democrats if the minute

366
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that you get out of line, that like someone like

367
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Tulci Gabbert for instance, the minute that they get out

368
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of line, they're like, you are gone. RFK Junior. The

369
00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:29,319
guy's freaking family is they were before Obama. They were

370
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the Democrat prominent, premier Democrat family, like they were the

371
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ones who every Democrat in America be like, we love

372
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the Kennedys, we love that, we love Ted, we love

373
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He was called the line of the Senate after he

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literally killed a woman and they they did not. They

375
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were like, oh, this is this is terrible and professional behavior.

376
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Now maybe he won't be president, but he'll be in

377
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the Senate for like forty years, and we'll keep him

378
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in a prominent position within the part. The moment that

379
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,079
you step off the reservation there, the moment you like

380
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:09,880
starts being like, Okay, maybe we don't need to just

381
00:23:10,079 --> 00:23:16,400
like advance this permanent revolution thing. They get you out, okay.

382
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:23,359
And what happens is the Republicans do the exact same thing,

383
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,599
except in reverse. So if you don't hold the same

384
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:31,000
opinions that a lot of the that would be respectable

385
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,799
at the New York Times or like make you be

386
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,480
able to appear on MSNBC as a guest, they're like, Okay,

387
00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:40,240
this person is a little bit wacky. We're going to

388
00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:42,640
have to like purds to them. Make sure they don't

389
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,680
have professional employment, they don't have advancement. So it's it's

390
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,440
just it's it's literally crazy. And what happens is even

391
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:59,279
Hillary Clinton's views from fifteen years ago, ten years ago,

392
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,319
Barack Obama, his views from ten or fifteen years ago

393
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:08,200
are unacceptable in today's Democrat party. So this is what

394
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,279
it's just, it's always even like and and then the

395
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,440
Republicans the conservatives say, yeah, you know what, you're right,

396
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,759
Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton opposed gay marriage. You know what,

397
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,680
we're gonna, We're gonna h But now they love it,

398
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,279
so now it's time for us to adopt that position

399
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:33,200
as well. It's it's it's crazy. I don't know. I

400
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,839
think social media is starting to in the rise of

401
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:42,319
podcasting and sort of the the death of legacy media

402
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,480
is starting to change this where people are like whoahoa, whoa.

403
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,160
I I am not on Like, I don't want I

404
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,759
don't care about what people on MSNBC think. I'm gonna

405
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,000
have my own opinions, in my own views, and like

406
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,359
that's my right as an American. But again, and when

407
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,519
people start getting a little bit like Charlie Kirk started

408
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:08,839
to he had a change too, and he started to

409
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,880
move a little bit to the right. And as soon

410
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,319
as you do that, as soon as you someone with

411
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:20,160
like prominence like that starts to move a little bit

412
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,039
like drift from Okay, I these aren't opinions you'll ever

413
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:26,880
hear on the New York Times or MSNBC. He's a

414
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,799
threat the people, the old like who we're talking about,

415
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,839
the David Frenches of the world. They're like you said,

416
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,839
they're numerous of these people that still are pretty well

417
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,920
entrenched in conservative politics. The moment that you kind of

418
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,599
get away from that, they the left is like, okay,

419
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,440
this is a target. This is someone who is not

420
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,279
is not someone that we can just like welcome into

421
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:56,640
our coalition to crap on red America anymore.

422
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: Well, and the thing is that, look, we've run this

423
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,920
playbook over and over again. It's not like, you know,

424
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,759
the secret has just been discovered. You know that if

425
00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:12,799
you play, if you play to the center constantly, you know,

426
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,279
if you adopt, you know, the liberal values of ten

427
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,839
years ago, if you know vainly try you know, election

428
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,839
after election to appeal to demographics that vote against you,

429
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,480
you know, ninety three to seven, right to quote the

430
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,279
results of win some series in a recent election. It's

431
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:31,119
not like you do that, and that's the silver bullet.

432
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,799
You get it, you get into power forever. We've been

433
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:36,160
trying this for generations, longer than you or I have

434
00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:40,440
been alive, and it doesn't it doesn't yield a victory.

435
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,559
And many people, you know, many of the new reactionary

436
00:26:43,599 --> 00:26:45,000
as well as others, have pointed out the fact that

437
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:50,240
effectively the Republican Party doesn't actually exist to win right,

438
00:26:50,319 --> 00:26:52,960
it's it's they are the fail sons of the political order.

439
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,240
They exist so that guys in the Republican Party get

440
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:01,359
to be this sort of like Retardo Baron of backwater America,

441
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:03,839
and they get to enrich themselves and they get to

442
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,400
stay in power for a long time and you know,

443
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,119
become multimillionaires more than that, and they get to be respected,

444
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,519
and they still get to go to all of the

445
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:16,839
same parties and that's it. It's an easy deal and

446
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,400
nothing is really expected of them. And we've seen that

447
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:23,480
change a little bit, right, you know, sell you about Trump,

448
00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:26,480
but he has introduced the concept of winning into the

449
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,359
mind of the American conservative, which, if nothing else, Man,

450
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,160
we got to give him an award for that, because

451
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,759
that was that was all of the lesson But nonetheless, right,

452
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:41,880
you mentioned earlier the kind of protection racket offered by politics. Right, effectively,

453
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,839
what are you getting in exchange for your support? And

454
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,279
for a very long time, the political formula of the

455
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:49,680
Republican Party was basically, well, we'll leave you alone for

456
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:53,400
as long as we're in power. We won't ruin your life.

457
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,680
And okay, that's certainly better than having your life ruined,

458
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,920
you know, given a binary choice, but that is not

459
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,680
the same deal offered to shall we say, other interest groups, right,

460
00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:06,920
offered to other you know, clients of the regime. You know,

461
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,720
for instance, you have this guy out of Portland too,

462
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,319
you know, crazy homeless drug addicts. Right. I'm not gonna

463
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:15,200
pretend to either. One of these guys are upstanding citizens.

464
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,160
But you know there's an altercation. You know, a dusky

465
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,079
gentleman stabs a white guy and after being stabbed, the

466
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,400
guy who has got a knife in him uses a

467
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,720
racial epithet right for black Americans, which you know, I'm

468
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:33,400
not gonna morally excuse, but like, the guy's been stabbed,

469
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,240
you know, clearly this is not a great moment for him.

470
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:38,960
You know, it's not like a premeditated hard r you know,

471
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:43,240
full eye contact and everything. Yeah, but this this stabber

472
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,119
has been let go. The jury equits him because of

473
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,240
that detail. Right, It was sort of this like you know,

474
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,440
pre crime. You know, he he knew in his heart

475
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,119
that he was racist and stabbed him and it confirmed it.

476
00:28:56,839 --> 00:28:59,599
But look like that's an incredible piece of patronage there.

477
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,759
If you're a client of the regime, you can stab

478
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,079
someone and you can get away with it. We've seen

479
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:09,880
this in other cases as well, right the you know,

480
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,799
the the whole you know, this whole sort of affirmative

481
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:17,480
action apparatus, you know, disparate impact. All of these are

482
00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:23,079
basically rewards offered for your loyalty. And you look at

483
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:26,359
you know, what has been offered, and basically we're looking

484
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,400
at sort of a civilizational dispossession. You know, it's kind

485
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,279
of slow marched over seventy years, and you start to

486
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:35,720
say like, well, wait a minute, this is possible. I

487
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:40,839
see other people getting something, so why not me? And

488
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:43,799
you see this sort of fury from the kind of

489
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,880
conservatives or yes of yesteryear, you know, the old the

490
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,119
old true neo cons you know, Crystal and French and

491
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,799
others who basically want to put that genie back in

492
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:54,319
the bottle to say like, well, why can't we go

493
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,559
back to the good old days where I didn't have

494
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,400
to do anything that was a lot more fun. And

495
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,920
when I say I didn't have to do anything, I'm

496
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,160
not saying that. You know, the people currently empower the

497
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:05,240
you know, the the Maga block, whatever you wanna call it,

498
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,400
are like the best political actors possible. But to say

499
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,480
I think that is an interesting an interesting change is

500
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:17,440
sort of how nakedly political many things have become where

501
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,519
it's not necessarily like we're resorting and it still happens,

502
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:23,079
but to kind of this like you know, high minded idealism,

503
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,039
it's a lot more of like, well, what's in it

504
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,640
for me? I don't necessarily think that is a sign

505
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,039
of a healthy culture, but it is where we are.

506
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:32,680
And I think it's interesting to watch those kind of

507
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:35,119
you know, country club conservative types grapple with that.

508
00:30:35,839 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I, uh, I will say, just with

509
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,440
your last part there, I am a huge golfer, so

510
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:48,599
I love I have nothing, but I understand the uh

511
00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:52,640
the that that is just kind of a way to

512
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,200
talk about them. But I love the country club conservatives.

513
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,279
I would say, I would say, actually, this might be

514
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,640
a little bit controversial, but country clubs are like one

515
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,160
of the last places in America where you have a

516
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:13,319
selective process of who gets to come in. That's like

517
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,359
almost lost everywhere else. So you know, it doesn't have

518
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:21,400
like diversity quotas at you like, your local country club

519
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:23,440
is not like you have to let in like a

520
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:25,759
certain amount of like X number of people every year.

521
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:27,599
It's like no, you can actually just like let in

522
00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,240
some like respectable members of the community or people who

523
00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,000
are willing to pay their way in and show off

524
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:37,880
good behavior and whatever else. I understand. I didn't mean

525
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,799
to take that much issue with that, I understand. I

526
00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:43,839
just I wrote an article specifically about this, so I

527
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,440
wanted to kind of get a shameless plug in there.

528
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:52,400
But but no, you're right that the main question that

529
00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:56,720
we're kind of getting at is what do I receive

530
00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:01,799
in return for my loyalty to the Republican Party, And

531
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,880
it's a lot less than what Democrats get. Now, I think,

532
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,119
like you said, Trump kind of has broken that open

533
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,480
a little bit because he's one of the few people

534
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,079
like he's like, hey, drink COVID. Let's like send out

535
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,640
like one time stimulus. Let's just as like give people

536
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:24,240
money and say, like, you know, you get your check,

537
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:26,759
and then it says from President Donald J. Trump, you

538
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:29,480
know that's a that's a form of patronage that like

539
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,359
the Republicans are would typically not usually be on board with.

540
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:36,720
Same with what he's talking about with Obamacare and healthcare,

541
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:38,880
He's like, I want the money to go directly to

542
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,119
the people. This is like a very populous thing, right,

543
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,559
This is like kind of what separates him from some

544
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:49,640
of the other Republicans, where he's like, I am willing

545
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,720
to give you something in return, even if if even

546
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,519
if it's just a small, like monetary stipend. He's like,

547
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,519
here is what you get. You vote for me, you

548
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,319
get X number of dollars. You'll get these Trump savings accounts.

549
00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:06,279
That's another big thing.

550
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: Like I have.

551
00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: A son on the way, my wife's our first son.

552
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,799
My wife's do it in February, and I now have

553
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,880
access to this like government program where my child is born,

554
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,000
I get a thousand The Treasury Department will deposit one

555
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,400
thousand dollars into a savings account for my retirement account

556
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,119
for my son. And that's like, you know, that's not

557
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:37,319
necessarily like a traditional Republican thing, but as like someone

558
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,440
who you know understands you need to get you know,

559
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:46,680
as much ahead as you can before you enter the workforce.

560
00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:49,119
That's a good thing. You know, I'll be able to

561
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240
sign my kid up for that. It's like that that's

562
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:55,240
a form of patronage, right, And so I think Trump

563
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,039
is somewhat changing this this mindset, like but again and

564
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:07,000
it's still woefully, woefully short of what the Democrats get

565
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:07,759
for their loyalty.

566
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: You know.

567
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: It's literally like, if you go vote Democrat, we pay you.

568
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,440
And it's it's also tough to This is part of

569
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,480
the issue with patronage too, is because the Democrats are

570
00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:23,079
always going to promise more and and so I think

571
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,119
we have to be like practical in the way we

572
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,800
do it. But even just offering like hey, you're going

573
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,360
to have basic security would go a long way. But

574
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,199
you know, you'll have safe streets in America. You can

575
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,800
walk in a city and not have to be worried

576
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,400
about getting stabbed or your murderer being let off because

577
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,119
you used a racial slur after you got literally stabbed.

578
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, Like.

579
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: It seems like there there are some forms of this

580
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,559
that could be just so simple. And you know, I

581
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,280
think Trump's trying to He's trying to do that too,

582
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,559
but you can only do so much. Like you know,

583
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:07,559
he's trying to send some of the National Guard to

584
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:10,400
the cities and whatever else. I think all the cities

585
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,440
probably need that, but that's probably another discussion. But he's

586
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,199
I think he is changing it for the better. I

587
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,480
just it's going to be interesting to see where this goes,

588
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,719
because it does seem like there's a coordinated effort to

589
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:32,280
reinstall the kind of politics where you tell Republicans like

590
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,400
the slow burn that you're talking about, like you're going

591
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,719
to lose your society, but we'll do it a little

592
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,920
bit slower. And I think I think that mindset is

593
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:46,840
hopefully changing. It's certainly changed among a lot of young people,

594
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:47,599
I think.

595
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:52,159
Speaker 1: Well, and I think that that's that's what's incredibly frustrating.

596
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,159
And I mentioned it with win some Earl series, but

597
00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:57,440
we're seeing it currently with the Indian diaspora, which is

598
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,480
the way that conservatives and will bend over backwards to

599
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:06,400
try and appeal for groups which vote against the met

600
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,679
dramatic rate. So for instance, Uh, you know, Rod Dreyer

601
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,719
had a piece out a while ago. What I heard

602
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,559
in d C Uh it was also not very good. Uh,

603
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,920
it's funny. It's funny, Logan, you're sort of getting the

604
00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:23,000
citations for every article I've written in the last three months,

605
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:28,159
but you know six of my brain the where you know,

606
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,719
he he's quoting this unnamed you know, uh, Republican staffer

607
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,559
right as we were assured a young person of color.

608
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,239
Uh you can figure it out. Uh, But basically this

609
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,320
kid is saying. He's like, oh, well, like, you know,

610
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,199
the problem with these you know, new you know, radical

611
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,639
right wingers is that they're you know, they're abandoning you know,

612
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,840
these these you know outreaches to you know, groups like

613
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,159
the Indian diaspora, who he describes as you know, natural conservatives.

614
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,840
And he says, don't you know in the last election,

615
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,760
almost forty percent of them voted for Trump. So we've

616
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,920
got to keep doing that. We've got to keep appealing

617
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,199
to them, to keep bringing more of them. And look, man,

618
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,079
I'm not a quant but uh is not more than half.

619
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:15,400
It's actually a little bit less. So that is a

620
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,079
losing game, especially because again talking about things we've done

621
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:22,239
over and over and over again, this idea of you know,

622
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,760
the soo so called you know, quote unquote natural conservative

623
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,000
often just deployed by group Bro.

624
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: I promise this time they're gonna they're gonna help us.

625
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,800
I swear yes.

626
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: And it's like, look like, certainly, you know Hispanics, especially

627
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,199
if they've sort of you know, been around longer, have

628
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:43,719
moved towards the center. But still it's not the majority

629
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:48,599
dramatically so and so it's especially frustrating when it seems

630
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:51,400
as if you know, the conservative the right is is

631
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:55,639
loathe to handout patronage when it is a group that

632
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,239
actually supports them, a group that actually votes for them.

633
00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:00,719
And you know, by large numbers, I think, next to

634
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,719
Black Americans, white American evangelicals are the most monolithic voting group, right,

635
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,599
the bull, the lone bull exactly. And so it's like, well, okay,

636
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,000
like you seemingly can can throw money around, you can,

637
00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:16,320
you know, like Greg Abbott sort of wheel yourself into

638
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,719
a dwale and you know you can do that for them,

639
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,239
who again vote against you roughly you know, sixty forty

640
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,840
seventy thirty depending on what sort of election it is,

641
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,360
but still majority. But for your guys, right, the guys

642
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,480
that put you there, that sort of effort is is absent.

643
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:38,559
And I think that, you know, particularly as we sort

644
00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:44,639
of head towards a like majority minority society, absence some

645
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,039
dramatic change. It's like the idea and you see this

646
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:50,320
again echoed by many of the very very good conservatives,

647
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,559
a lot of them actually who attack you guys over

648
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,199
at the Blaze, you know, one Jimbo Lindsey as well

649
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:57,079
as others, you know, it's this idea that oh, no,

650
00:38:57,679 --> 00:39:00,920
you know, we're the right is embracing identity politics just

651
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:03,920
like the left. Isn't that horrible? They've gone woke? And

652
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:08,400
the problem with that is, like, look, man, like everyone

653
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,960
else is playing identity politics. And there are two solutions

654
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,760
to that, which is one either you know, you say,

655
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,360
all right, turn about his fair play, or h you

656
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:24,039
remove identity from consideration in politics there is only one

657
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,280
identity in the polity.

658
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: Which, ironically, I am sure ironically it's also a lot

659
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,559
easier to do that when you have a homogeneous country,

660
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:32,159
isn't it.

661
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,199
Speaker 1: Well, And that's that's that's what I'm saying, right, either

662
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:36,199
that or you create a homogeneous country. And I'm quite

663
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,440
sure that our former massage therapist friend and others are

664
00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:44,559
not advocating for that right full total remigration. And so

665
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,360
to me, that's one of those other things where I

666
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,079
almost view that as sort of an inevitable kind of

667
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,239
the physics of politics like that, that it's sort of

668
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,440
a you know, like a social technology, right, like once

669
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:58,760
some person discovers it becomes the new way you play.

670
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,719
Like I don't know if you ever I'm not a

671
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,599
huge gamer, but you know, I played a.

672
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: Lot of Uh, that's that's terrible.

673
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I played a lot of fighting games in

674
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,400
high school and college, and there's sort of this power

675
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,320
creep as for as long as a game is around,

676
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,320
right where like when it first comes out, you play

677
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,400
it like how you're supposed to play it, and then

678
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,639
people very quickly discover exploits, Like in the the Super

679
00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:25,760
Smash Brothers series, there's this mechanism called wave dashing where

680
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,519
you can kind of like you know, mess with the

681
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,639
buttons and shoot across the screen. And then once that's discovered,

682
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,800
once that's discovered, that's just how you play. And if

683
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,199
you don't play that way, you were going to lose forever.

684
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,800
And so look, identity politics isn't quite the same because

685
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,800
that's just how politics works. But ultimately, this kind of

686
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,800
like nakedly racialized politics, like it was an effective tool.

687
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,239
One party figured it out, and the two options were

688
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,199
either stop existing as a political force, which is just

689
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,840
not how it happens, uh, or revolve. And so so

690
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,559
many of these people who I see is kind of

691
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:01,920
like sticks in the MUDs, you know, whining about like

692
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:05,280
the you know, the resurgence of like quote unquote identity politics.

693
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,840
It's like, well, if you didn't want that to happen,

694
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,000
there was a time and place for that to be

695
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:12,079
headed off at the past. It's well and truly past that.

696
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:14,639
It is sort of the the nature of the beast.

697
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:17,679
And I am kind of curious how long the National

698
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Review set will hold on because genuinely, I do not

699
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:24,000
know who their audience is. It doesn't seem to be liberals.

700
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:26,679
They don't seem to like them. Their own base I

701
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,039
think at this point has fully and totally discarded them.

702
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,480
So is it just that, like there's a bunch of

703
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:33,760
money sitting in the trust account, they keep getting their

704
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,119
paychecks paid in the audio and the newspapers read by nobody.

705
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,639
Is that just the answer? Yeah?

706
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:40,599
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the issue, is like we

707
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,760
have and you will like understand we the Republican Party

708
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,440
does have patronage, but it's for people who exist to

709
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:55,760
not represent Republican voters. That's the that's like the issue, right,

710
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,400
Like this is part of the problem is that you

711
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:03,239
have think tanks. I lived and worked in DC for

712
00:42:03,559 --> 00:42:07,639
like probably like three three and a half years when

713
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:12,320
I was young, and it's you know, it's a great experience.

714
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:17,039
It's good for young people, but for me, it created

715
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:22,079
this just huge disillusionment because you meet people and you're like,

716
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,760
what is your job? You know, like that's just kind

717
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,320
of a small talk at like a you know, at

718
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,880
cocktail hour or whatever, and you talk with them and

719
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,639
they're number one. They don't really have any beliefs. It's

720
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,199
like they don't they don't have any Like it's like, oh, yeah,

721
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,840
I'm like from like Maryland or Virginia or whatever. They

722
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,679
don't really have a lot of beliefs. And then also

723
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:53,320
a ton of them are just like not from they

724
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,800
don't have that love for Red America that a lot

725
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,280
of like they view their their role as being what

726
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,079
is acceptable within the liberal order. Right, they kind of

727
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,639
know that they're there too, Oh well, well you know,

728
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:13,320
we're here for the mid terms, or we're here to

729
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,639
like be a consultant for this, like for winsome Seers,

730
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,440
or like for this this conservative Somalian in Minnesota, right,

731
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:27,639
And it's like they operate they're so kind of captured

732
00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:31,519
by the system. It's like, well, what about like the

733
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:34,760
guy in West Virginia who like it lives in like

734
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,280
rural nowhere West Virginia and like he thinks you're representing him.

735
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,519
Here are you representing his? Like does he have any

736
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:48,960
representation in Washington, DC? I don't think so. But this

737
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,199
is sort of the issue. And and when you're talking

738
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:57,079
about it, like the identity politics thing with mass democracy,

739
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,800
like it is a numbers game. And if you start

740
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,960
doing this like mass democracy plus mass immigration, and you

741
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:07,920
think that you're not going to get identity politics, that's

742
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:12,519
like you are. That's more absurd than like, you know,

743
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,199
people who believe in Bigfoot are less like and I,

744
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,840
you know, I believe in Bigfoot. But aside the point

745
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:19,239
people who believe in Bigfoot.

746
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:26,519
Speaker 1: My favorite Republican Republican ever, Denver Riggleman, bigfoot believer. But

747
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,039
no point is you're you're one hundred percent correct because

748
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:30,840
like look like you know, much like a fighting game

749
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,440
or whatever, it's a system and ultimately you're playing within

750
00:44:34,519 --> 00:44:39,320
certain constraints and systems will be optimized. And so as

751
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,199
you've said, if you combine mass migration and mass democracy,

752
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,159
all of a sudden, you've got a win button and

753
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,239
you can just keep pressing that button forever, especially if

754
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,960
you have what and sorry for you know, tarnishing you

755
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:56,960
by using poor language, but the retardedest idea ever birthright citizenship,

756
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,519
and so you combine that and it's like, oh, well,

757
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:03,440
you can just literally invite everyone here, wait for someone

758
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,599
to get pregnant, and bam, you have a new patron.

759
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,360
You're rather yeah, just as American as anyone else, as

760
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,800
Ben Shapiro actually today has has told me that, you know,

761
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:15,639
it's all.

762
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,119
Speaker 2: Sorry, I keep going, no, no, finish that thought.

763
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:18,519
Speaker 1: Now.

764
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: The vakroate a piece today in the New York Times

765
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,920
too that said, what is an American? It says anyone

766
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,039
who believes in the creed and anyone who does it

767
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:30,079
the right way and gets citizenship is just as American

768
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:30,920
as a mayflower.

769
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: To send it, I feel like there's some motivated reasoning

770
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:41,719
for our young biotechnical founder. I'll leave it at that. Yeah,

771
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,480
obviously it's it's completely totally disingenuous, and I think that

772
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,480
that is you know, really, I think that sort of

773
00:45:48,559 --> 00:45:50,840
one of the start questions, and this has been going

774
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,719
around really for a lot this year, which is like, Okay,

775
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:57,199
who is an American matters? But also what is the

776
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,400
purpose of America as a country? Like what you doing

777
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,400
here because you have wildly different takes and it's like, well,

778
00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:07,400
you know, I have a relatively constrained vision of that

779
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,280
which I think is a home for Americans to them

780
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,760
to live. You know, I don't know, crucify me, I guess,

781
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,599
but like generally it actually is when you compare it

782
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,719
to ideas even from the nominal conservative movement, as you

783
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,199
mentioned with Favek, right, if America is simply something that

784
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,480
you can repeat to yourself three times in the mirror

785
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:31,199
and then you're American, it's like, well, okay, like one,

786
00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:33,599
well can't they just do that over there and be

787
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,920
just as American? And surely that's the secret formula to

788
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,199
making whatever that place is nice? You know, they just

789
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:40,639
become Americans. Oh great, awesome.

790
00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:42,599
Speaker 2: It's if it's an idea, why can't they do it

791
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:43,599
anywhere else?

792
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:46,679
Speaker 1: And we know why, we know exactly why, because that

793
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,960
is a tactical move right, that is to get you

794
00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:51,800
to you know, let your let your arm, your guard

795
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,239
down so they can do what they wanted to. And again,

796
00:46:56,639 --> 00:46:58,519
like that's why I think again it's so funny to

797
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:02,199
watch the kind of like like of the you know,

798
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,440
the good conservatives, you know, people who are maybe involved

799
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,039
in IDW or whatever, because that idea of the propositional nation.

800
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,440
It's really the only people who sincerely believed it were

801
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:19,760
American conservatives acting as sort of Charlie Brown running up

802
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,679
to the football again and again and again. And you

803
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,000
have a you know, a small splinter group basical saying like, hey, man,

804
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:28,559
look like we've fallen flat on our back like thirty times.

805
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:31,199
I think it might happen again. Yeah, And you have

806
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,360
Charlie Brown kind of looking up from his back be like, no,

807
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:36,599
this time, it'll work, guys. And it's like it's funny

808
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,440
to be because darkly right. Obviously it's sort of a

809
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,480
you know, a depressing thing, but it's like, genuinely the

810
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:45,599
only people who actually believe those sort of liberal promites

811
00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:51,159
are like deeply unfashionable conservatives. The progressive left obviously doesn't

812
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,039
you know, they say that just to do what they want,

813
00:47:53,159 --> 00:47:56,360
but they know it's not true. And it's sort of

814
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,440
like the one person in the world who still believes

815
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,960
in Santa Claus, but he's like thirty and you're like, guys,

816
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:04,039
come on, like, sorry, I guess it's good. I should

817
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,079
be bad talking Sanna. I feel like I shouldn't. But

818
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:08,039
you know what I mean, if you're eight years old.

819
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: This BLUs to Christmas, it's not good.

820
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have teptic faith, but you know what I mean, right,

821
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,039
someone who is held on to it an obviously absurd

822
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:17,199
belief well past that point. And in the case of

823
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,920
Shapiro and Viveck, there's some motivated reasoning there. We I

824
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,039
we can assume that they know what they're doing. But again,

825
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,440
it is incredibly irritating to see these sort of like

826
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,480
political myths like well past their cell by date still

827
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:33,960
trotted out again and again with the idea that this

828
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:36,639
is the secret formula to winning well.

829
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: And you know, the the reason that this is still

830
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:44,360
popular is because so many of our people, you know,

831
00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:47,519
Trump is good at this, like and he has done

832
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:50,320
a lot to advance this, but so many people that

833
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,920
are nominally on our side are just afraid to say, like,

834
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:59,480
America is a nation. We have people that built this nation.

835
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,119
They've been around here, they have their own way of life.

836
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:05,079
They've been around here for three hundred plus years. They

837
00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:07,079
have their own way of life, they have their own culture.

838
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,159
And the reason that this is so because they are

839
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:17,840
so afraid of being accused of racism that they cannot say, like, hey,

840
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:23,440
I prefer this like culture of like Evangelical Protestants to

841
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,559
like whatever they have going in Somalia. It's like this

842
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,280
is it's actually pretty easy to say that, but they're

843
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,000
so afraid to like stand up for their own people.

844
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: This is.

845
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,039
Speaker 2: It reminds me of the I'm sure you've seen The Incredibles,

846
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:43,360
the Disney movie, but the the the villain in that

847
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:46,440
movie he says, well, whenever he's like trying to give

848
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:49,760
power to everyone, he says, when everyone's super, no one is.

849
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,039
And that's kind of what's happening here. Like if everyone

850
00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:56,119
and anyone from anywhere in the world is just as

851
00:49:56,159 --> 00:50:01,199
American as like the sons and daughter of the American Revolution,

852
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:08,639
then you've brought the definition down to such a point

853
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:11,559
that it doesn't mean anything anymore, right, And it's like,

854
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:18,599
so you can't quickly I think this is a stupid

855
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:23,400
idea that's also like being repudiated, and nobody really believes

856
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,519
anymore except for kind of those idw types and foreigners.

857
00:50:27,039 --> 00:50:29,639
But it is one of those things where it's like

858
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,000
the fact that it's still around that people that are

859
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:34,760
supposed to be on our side are still saying it

860
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,960
is absurd. The other thing I think that you're kind

861
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,880
of tapping into and getting at is that America is

862
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,800
supposed to be a home for Americans. Well, what you know,

863
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,960
I know our friend Orin talks about this a lot,

864
00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:52,760
But we are supposed to be a home for Americans

865
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,159
and we're supposed to be a sovereign nation. But this

866
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,400
is kind of impossible if we are running an empire,

867
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,280
which is what we are doing. You know, we have

868
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,800
I saw something today like Trump is meeting with the fallen,

869
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,119
like fallen troops in Syria, like American troops in Syria.

870
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:13,800
It's like, why do we why do we have troops

871
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,880
in Syria? Are we the World police or what? Like

872
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:22,000
what's going on there? I have my gripes about that too.

873
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,960
But then like the same thing with Gaza, you know,

874
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:28,599
they're like, oh they have like they have this certain

875
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:32,599
amount of American hostages. It's like if they're American hostages,

876
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,800
did they pluck them from our soil? Like did did

877
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:38,199
the Goazains come over here and like pluck them from

878
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,559
like Ohio or something? Like why are they why are

879
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:44,880
they all the way over there? If they're American hostages.

880
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:50,679
This is part of the issue is we have diluted

881
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,119
the definition so much that people are starting to ask.

882
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,320
And this is one of the things that Charlie said too,

883
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,199
like a couple months before he died, he said, like,

884
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,199
we're gonna have to figure out, like, what is the

885
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,079
answer to this question? What is an American? And I

886
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,280
sadly I don't think, you know, the Democrats have an answer.

887
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:14,320
Their answer is anyone from anywhere in the world. The

888
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,360
rest of the world is just potential undocumented Americans. And

889
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:21,960
the conservatives, you know, the ones who say it's an idea,

890
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:25,480
tend to agree with that. But the ones who don't

891
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,320
are starting to ask, like, Okay, are these like Somalians

892
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,079
in Minnesota, these ilhan Omar they come in, they clearly

893
00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:36,000
hate our country. They're just scamming the welfare system. They don't,

894
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,920
They're just here. They see it as an economic zone.

895
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,400
They see it as a way to increase the power

896
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:46,519
of their co ethnics at expense of the actual Americans

897
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:50,119
in Minnesota. Are they they have papers, they've got paperwork,

898
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,239
they have citizenship. Are they as American as you know,

899
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,360
someone who's been in Minnesota for two hundred years their family.

900
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,760
I don't know, but I think a lot of people

901
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,760
are starting to reject that. But that is kind of

902
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,719
the question, and uh, we're gonna have to look upon, uh,

903
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:14,400
some some ancient wisdom, I think to figure it out. Well, certainly.

904
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: And that's sort of another you know, interesting sort of

905
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,800
battle waged earlier in the year is over the term

906
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:24,639
you know, who is an American and you know, paperwork American?

907
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,599
And I've been reliably informed that that is a phrase,

908
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,440
you know, the paper work American, uh, taken from a

909
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:33,719
prominent Austrian painter's book. And that's the only reason anyone

910
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,440
cares about it is because they're you know, they're secretly uh,

911
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:40,639
you know, big fans of that guy. Yeah, which is

912
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:45,320
of course a disingenuous barb. But nonetheless, right, that is

913
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,800
a very important question because how do you run a

914
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,840
society when it is very difficult to determine who actually

915
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:54,440
makes it up?

916
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 2: Right?

917
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,679
Speaker 1: Like who is under your jurisdiction? Who is your guy?

918
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,119
Who do you have to from who?

919
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

920
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 1: And if you can't answer that again, it's like, well, okay,

921
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,880
like is this even really a country anymore? Or is

922
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,000
it just sort of a strip mall with nukes, and like,

923
00:54:12,159 --> 00:54:14,000
I don't want that to be the case. I like

924
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:16,360
living in a place I don't have anywhere else to go,

925
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,599
and I see other peoples who have that. I see

926
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,840
you know, situations where our government is you know, expending

927
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,800
their their lives and their treasure to ensure that privilege

928
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,960
for others. And so I think it's reasonable to say, well, like,

929
00:54:31,039 --> 00:54:34,760
I pay my taxes, I live here, Like should I

930
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,239
not get the same level of deference you offered to

931
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,840
foreign nations? That seems to me to be sort of

932
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,880
a baseline. And again I think that is why, you know,

933
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:47,199
far from you know, simply being algorithms, that so many people,

934
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,760
particularly young people, are are sort of upset, even if

935
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,039
it's not expressed as cleanly as that, but it's this

936
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:55,159
feeling of dispossession of like, well, like, well, what's mine?

937
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,039
What can I give myself too? Because you know, there

938
00:54:59,079 --> 00:55:02,079
are very few ways to index with the system, and

939
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,119
when that system, as it were, is telling you, you know,

940
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,840
you are this sort of fount of evil. You know,

941
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,519
you are the reason for all of these problems and

942
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,800
nothing is yours. Your one acceptable role is to at best,

943
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,239
you know, either trun out or kill someone and you're like, well,

944
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,320
that doesn't seem like a good deal. I would like

945
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,039
a different one. Like that is why you are seeing

946
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:25,920
the rise of you know, radical politics among young people

947
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,760
because and I put every one of those words in

948
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,079
scare quotes, but it's like you, ultimately, again, if politics

949
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:37,840
is transactional, when you're giving people a particularly raw deal,

950
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,920
they are going to cast around for alternatives. We've seen

951
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,119
this on the international stage. Right countries at sort of

952
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:46,039
the fringes of the Empire are starting to look around

953
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,719
and saying like wait a minute, like let me click

954
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,119
up with China, like maybe with Russia they're offering us

955
00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:53,960
a better deal, and like yeah, sure, the great game

956
00:55:54,159 --> 00:55:57,519
on the international scale is on one level different. But also,

957
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,440
you know, politics is the science of human order, organization,

958
00:56:01,079 --> 00:56:04,199
human nature is real, and the same incentives play out,

959
00:56:04,599 --> 00:56:09,639
and ultimately, largely the conservative movement has created this incentive.

960
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,920
And so when they're whining about it, like oh, why

961
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:13,519
can't we just go back to the good old days,

962
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:17,360
it's like, well, you your why, You're right, there are

963
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,039
no longer those good old dates.

964
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 2: Right.

965
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: You were complicit, You went along with it, You wrote

966
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:24,639
articles where you referred to you know, drag Queen's Story

967
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,000
hour as the Blessings of Liberty, and then you wonder

968
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:30,079
why everyone's like, well, hey, you know, I don't I

969
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:32,039
don't like that guy. I'm doing what he says anymore.

970
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:36,360
It's like, well, no shit, to be brutally honest. But Logan,

971
00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:38,679
we're fast coming up on time. Man, it was great

972
00:56:38,679 --> 00:56:40,559
to have you on. I'm glad that we finally did

973
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:43,320
it after some scheduling conflict. But dude, where can people

974
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:44,800
find you? Ah?

975
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, go follow me on X Logan Clark Hall on

976
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,639
there and follow the Blaze.

977
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: Sure thing, man, highly I will drop both of those

978
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,559
links there. As far as my stuff, Jaburden Show, Apple, Spotify,

979
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,559
YouTube to support me and this is what I do,

980
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,880
throw me a few bucks. Get the episodes early in

981
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,679
AD free. Check out my sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. Logan.

982
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,519
It was great to have you on, man. Thank you

983
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,000
everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last forever.

984
00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:13,559
Good night,